Thread 64438585

THE BATTLESHIP IS BACK

>drone fleets
poor fag's navy

>>64438585 (OP)
And now we wait for the redditors to screech

>>64438585 (OP)
Nothing in that suggested big-gunned ships. It's probably just Trump telling the DoD to fund DDG-X more.

>>64438585 (OP)
>early discussions
So it's just Trumps' fever dreams. Right. Navy's just gonna throw this idiocy into bureaucratic limbo until he kicks the bucket or leaves office. And good riddance, too.

>>64438585 (OP)
USA circa WW2 could clobber any other nation on the planet today.

>That's a nice big ship you have there
>Be a shame if someone expended a fraction of its value in ballistic missiles on it

:/

>>64438585 (OP)
You really can get anything funded through him if you market it correctly, huh?
>Arsenal Ship bros we’re so back

>>64438645
What was the name of that battleship sunk by missiles?

>>64438608
>So it's just Trumps' fever dreams

this, im so tired of a clickbait article coming up any time trump responds to a loaded question with "maybe!" like he does with EVERY QUESTION

>>64438658
Roma

>>64438645
>Enemy launches anti-ship ballistic missile at you
>Turn left
>Missile misses
If your anti-ship system can be defeated by NASCAR-style evasive maneuvers, then your system sucks.

>>64438658
B5

>>64438585 (OP)
At least he gives something of a fuck about the Navy and its future.

>>64438658
HMS Sheffield

>>64438594
If you read the WSJ article the gist is basically the navy going back to Arleigh Burke's (admiral not the ship) high-low model. We've basically been stuck in limbo with the Burkes (ship not the person) having to do everything because the navy failed to replace the Tico's or the Perry's that were the backbone of the 609 ahip navy.

>>64438664
>Bombers are missiles
Lmao
>>64438690
>Destroyers are battleships
LMAAOOOOOOOO

>>64438724
Anon, what do you think bombers carry?

>>64438681
Someone wasn't paying attention during the Red Sea crisis.

The poopskin fears the Anglo Skynet

>>64438704
Me personally, I am sympathetic to the urge to have almost every blue water ship being Aegis capable.

>Golden Fleet
Why does everything have to be GOLD with this guy

>>64438744
He embodies how a poor man thinks a rich man lives.

>>64438751
Which is why he's so popular with blue collars despite his flaws. He appeals to prole drift.

>>64438740
That's fine. I think you can have a Aegis capable corvette that weighs about 7,500 tons. Give it 32-64 VLS, a good sonar, and a hanger and you've got a fantastic "low-end" ship to spam. I think that's what the Navy tried and failed to do with the Constellation.

>>64438762
He also didn't run the country into the ground out of spite. Trump is the product of the failure of 30 years of post-cold-war thinking enabled by both parties. I blame Francis Fukuyama.

>>64438767
Maybe there's some desk jockey at DoD who has convinced someone higher up that the Europeans will fulfill the low part of the mix for the US.

>>64438585 (OP)
>battleships
>look inside
>Heavy Cruisers
Welcome Back Alaska Class

>>64438585 (OP)
one giant le hecking battleship

>operation yank-go

>>64438782
Part of the problem is U.S. shipbuilding industry is doodoo. If we were smart, the Navy would create a modular hull-form that can be made at any U.S. or allied shipyard, launched, and then fitted with American weapons and sensors it wants. That way we could take advantage of yards in places like Worst Korea or Finland while also using U.S. components.

>>64438787
I bet the owners of Bath and Ingalls both are too happy to just have the Arleigh Burke go on forever, so that they never have to retool.

>>64438775
Its refreshing and I hope both parties get more populist spines after he's an afterthought. I don't want Caesarism, but I want an actual populist for once that seems to listen to people. He may be a bit too reactive and wishy washy on foreign policy but I love his domestic policies.

>>64438787
or we trump could just bring back shipbuilding like he promised he would. there is tons of empty waterfront in camden,south philly, newark, and wilmington that would be perfect for that purpose

>Be captain of destroyer in the Carrierstrikegroup pingpong assigned to patrol the waters of chingchong under the supervision of dingdong
>Radar picks up a large ship approaching from 300kms away
>Launch 2 missiles
>Watch with anticipation as youll score a kill and get +500social credits
>All your missiles are shoot down
>Repeat again with even more
>One manages to get trough
>But ship doesnt stop
>Pingpong finishes all its stockpiles
>Wait for hours as contacts start getting nearer
>Watch in horror as 100000 tonns of steel come trough the mist
>Fire your punny cannons at it
>Shells ricochets in to the water
>Clank clank
>The hum of chinesium forged motors comes to a halt
>Three twelve inch holes in the engine compartment
>That's like 30 centimeters for those of you in gay countries
>Chinesium ship taking on water
>Hong Fong taking a bath in the engine room, essential oils for his hair routine
>Ship is going down
>Captain Ho Lee Fook

>>64438795
I wonder how complicated it would be to lengthen the Burke. Make it 20-30% bigger, give it an extra 32 VLS, and a bigger power plant for direct energy weapons. Turn it into a cruiser that can sail around with 2-3 frigates like Zumwalt intended.

>>64438802
Personally I think VTOL jet drones and submersible drones are going to be our future. The age of large ships may be closing in favor of drone swarms.

>>64438802
either way, whether it's U.S. yards or otherwise, the Navy needs an easily producible frigate. If they can make it here, all the better.

>>64438807
>somehow the Jeune École returned.

>>64438804
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_the_Great-class_destroyer

>>64438585 (OP)
>golden fleet
WTF is it with Donald and gold

>>64438828
fucking fund it

Wasn't Trump supposed to curb the spending on stupid shit Biden and Obama started?

>>64438834
he's transslavic

>>64438834
wdym?

>>64438864
At this point who fucking cares about the foreign policy his domestic policy isn't retarded. Long live the American Empire.

>>64438874
same vibe

>>64438585 (OP)
Based.

>>64438804
>bigger power plant for direct energy weapons
Make Nuclear Powered Missile Cruisers Great Again

>>64438804
>bigger power plant for direct energy weapons.
Make CGNs Great Again

>>64438744
>the ship is America sinking under the deadweight and hubris of Trump

>>64438802
Yeah im not gonna say that i agree with him on everything, but finding a way to revitalize the US ship building industry is definitely something that he should power through with

>>64438905
We are rising again. Keep coping and seething, loser.

>>64438916
>We are rising again.
Sure buddy, sure.

>>64438920
Your country has never been even a regional power in the modern era, silence.

>>64438916
lol

>>64438658
SS Shattlebip

>>64438803
this is so stupid, as if ashbms impact the armor belt.

>>64438631
Cute Atlanta
>>64438658
None, and no current missile could penetrate a battleship's belt, but several could penetrate their deck armor if they used a Javelin-style top down attack profile.

>>64438916
>The rising pressure gauge means we are going up, retard.
>No, this won't horrifically implode.

we're back. These with laser and more drones escorted by cheap corvettes are a good idea

>>64438704
I don't fucking care if it was just a design study, we should have built the Cruiser Baselines as a Tico replacement, it combined all the best parts of the Tico and the Burkes

>>64438665
>itt, what is terminal guidance
Retard.

>>64438732
What terminally guided ballistic missiles were used by the Houthi?

>>64439077
>None,
Only because they were withdrawn from service because of the development of AShM and torpedoes that would rape them.
>and no current missile could penetrate a battleship's belt
Huh? A P-15 Termit, from 1960 and still in service today, would penetrate the belt of any battleship that's ever been built. Sunburn, Shipwreck etc would as well, and it's all besides the point because it would be trivially easy to build one that would just by making a wider AShM.

>>64438787
Lmao what do you want LCS 2: Electric Boogaloo?

>>64438803
>launch another 6 missiles
>all hit
>register massive explosion
>~2000 yanks drown or burn to death in their obsolete 100000 ton shitpile
>get decorated by winnie for essentially clubbing a baby seal
FTFY

>>64439281
Interesting how foreign communist shills keep referencing astroturfed far left radical violence

>>64438585 (OP)
How are they gonna pay for it? The US government is shut down, they're doing an illegal GoFundMe of billionaires just to pay the troops, where is the money to build a battleship yard and a bunch of warships coming from?

>>64439428
>retard can't actually read and form coherent thoughts
>he just goes through his NPC dialogue tree
Yeah, I get that you're stupid, but you don't need to tell everyone.

>>64439424
damn you got him man china numba won

>>64439077
>None, and no current missile could penetrate a battleship's belt
It's even worse than I remembered and posted in >>64439414. Most current infantry HEAT weapons could penetrate the thickest armor of any battleship ever built at its thickest point. Yamato's thickest armor (the turret faces) would have to be nearly twice as thick as they were to prevent penetration by even a Hellfire, and they were already 50% thicker than her belt at its thickest point. You could built small parts of a battleship from NERA/spaced arrays, but not a whole belt and not economically even compared to using STS.

The level of delusion that battleshipfags need to achieve to remain battleshipfags is wild. Like, an infantryman with a $1000 AT4 can penetrate the main belt of Yamato. You have to be absolutely insane to think this is a good idea, and not deranged and senile rantings.

>>64438585 (OP)
unless Japan is building Yamato 2.0 with beyond horizon rail guns and complete anti missile laser defense systems I don't want it

>>64439610
>it's the year 2095
>Finno-Korean Hyperwar II is about to kick off
>Nu-IJN is still pagodamaxxing

>>64438704
>the 609 ahip navy.
'tard navy?

>>64438585 (OP)
>Heavily armed warships carrying hypersonic missiles supported by corvettes
It's not too late for Zumwalt and Independence!

>>64439732
pagodas were ahead of their time
ELECTRONICS BLOATMAXXING

>>64439788
>ELECTRONICS BLOATMAXXING
You are like little baby, watch this:
>Nuclear battlecruiser with all of its weapons removed to make room for computers and radars
>Maximum speed of 20 knots because the computers draw so much of its available power
>scrapped after 30 years of sitting at anchor without ever putting out to sea

>>64439580
You do realize that they had HEAT back in WWII, right? They couldn't penetrate armor that thick which is why they needed a ton of mass going really fast. Even if a P-15 could penetrate (doubtful), the damage would be significantly less than a 16" shell due to the smaller diameter hole and lack of mass/bursting charge entering the ship. I'm not even a battleshipfag saying this, I already said that top attack missile (or even AP bombs) invalidate battleships, but shaped chargefags are on a whole other level of delusion.

Honestly it would be better to through more money at the B-21 and munitions for it, then base it appropriately. That will be better at countering the chink navy than whatever overburdened slop design the admirals shit out.

As sick as tits as battleships are

there's no need for old style battleship gun platforms. If we aren't handling naval battles from BVR we're retarded.

That said. We should have one battleship for bombardment like we used in the gulf war just because a battleship shelling ground targets is absolutely, unrepentantly bitchin'

>>64439882
once lasers and energy storage git gud BBs will be the future again. Rail guns launching hypersonic projectiles over the horizon project power wherever needed and laser defense systems will eliminate any incoming flying threat. AI powered optical targeting systems would even eliminate stealth planes.

>>64439882
Now that we have precision guided munitions, shells don't need enormous explosive charges anymore. Now that shells don't need enormous explosive charges, they don't need to be fired from big guns. Now that the guns don't have to be big, they can be installed on more reasonably sized ships. If naval gunfire bombardment is important, the way to go about it is by restarting Zumwalt production.

>>64439424
You forgot
>score a single hit
>the billion dollar steel tub is now just that, blind because you can't armor radar and external sensors
>giggle to yourself as it sails around in circles looking for you for an hour before you finally launch a secondary strike that puts a hole in it because the point defense systems are trying to be manually aimed

>>64439904
That sounds pretty reasonable. I don't know shit about that kind of thing, but I can't imagine that technology is close enough that building the platforms at this time would be useful. Building them with conventional naval guns and converting them in the far future seems like a waste. Now, if those were say 5 years or 10 years away, starting on those platforms and having them finish about the time those weapons are ready to be installed on them, that would be reasonable. But even then, still keeping one conventionally gunned battleship for the fuck yeah 16 inch gun bombardment would be cool. Impractical, but cool.

>>64439904
you don't even need energy storage
if you make a ship big enough and fast enough it will have so much power you can divert 100 MW to a megalaser whenever you feel like

>>64438676
Hah jokes on you.. I stacked all my ships on top of each other…

>>64439580
the main belt has significant voids and bulk heads behind it, so even if the main belt is penetrated it would still absorb nearly all the energy followed by meter thick spaced hallways and metal bulkheads before it ever reached anything important

the T-72Bs hull armor could resist HEAT rounds using only 5 layers of steel with air pockets in between them
so a 400mm thick armor plate, a meter thick airgap, a steel bulkheead, and then another air gap would accomplish much the same thing

Why don't we have battleships with laser-guided shells that aircraft can provide terminal guidance? A 12" gun is basically a GBU-16 launcher

>>64439867
>You do realize that they had HEAT back in WWII, right? They couldn't penetrate armor that thick which is why they needed a ton of mass going really fast.
You're close to right, but still absolutely wrong. HEAT was brand new. The first HEAT weapons were fielded during WWII, not before it, and the first actually useful HEAT weapons were fielded as or after the last battleship was laid down. They still sucked and no one fielded any big ones during the war, only very small ones. The parameters and mechanism of action were still poorly understood and no one knew that they would be as penetrative as they ended up being.

The first HEAT weapons came into service in 1940, and were absolutely shit and only could have been used for top attack anyway, which SAP bombs could do. It wasn't until rockets were developed and mated to them that they became useful at all, and that didn't happen until 1942 (last battleship was laid down in 1941). Even good WWII HEAT was only doing 1-2* its diameter in penetration and it wasn't until postwar research that we learned you could reliably and easily get 4-6 diameters of penetration and how to do it, or that much more was possible with effort. At that point, armored ships were done for good, since it was clear that no practicable amount of armor could ever withstand HEAT of the size an AShM (let alone nuclear weapons).

HEAT AShMs weren't the only thing that killed the battleship, but they were a huge factor. Anti-battleship AShMs were put into service by the Soviets specifically because they were worried about reactivated western battleships operating under air cover, and doing it resulted in even those being deactivated.

>>64438658
Moskva

>>64440233
Spaced armor doesn't work the way you think it does. It works by diffracting the jet - the size of the air gaps isn't bigger = better, it's about having certain angles and multiple gaps. Spaced armor, a different thing, is what you're thinking of, but it's complicated by the fact that you want the armor configuration the other way around (whipple shield then main armor), but the configuration of battleship armor would be ineffective as spaced armor.

A P15 termit's HEAT lance would penetrate a little more than 4 meters into Iowa at the thickest part of her belt. The difference from spacing etc is only about a quarter of a meter of total penetration. It's enough to penetrate the citidel. We don't have good armor models for Yamato for me to do finite modelling with, but I doubt she'd fare much better. You can also build wider than Termit, there was just never targets irl that needed it.

Finally, T72 etc do it using composite arrays. You can't make a battleship out of those.

>>64440233
All soviet tanks after the 1970s were designed to stop HEAT mainly with Kontakt, many of older variants were upgraded with them instead of adding the more complex and heavier composite addons of the 1970s. The spaced steel armor was a design for the more problematic kinetic penetrators, and it was a huge improvement in protection and by weight. Against tandem HEAT they developed more iteration of ERA.

>>64438744
That's just how Trump is. He likes stereotypical displays of wealth which means gold. For better or worse the guy just loves gold and ornate shit. See the ballroom and oval office decorations.

>>64440262
>Finally, T72 etc do it using composite arrays. You can't make a battleship out of those.
All you need to do is armor the citadel, gun/missile magazines, and propulsion/power generation. Even though spaced armor isn't as simple as that as you said, larger size and increased compartmentalization does give ship designers much more leeway than on smaller ships to construct protective arrays against both perpendicular and plunging fire.
Also, though this isn't really related to the original anon's point, I'm predicting that future large surface combatants are more likely to rely on the outer layers of the survivability onion than actual armor beyond what is typical on carriers. Probably lasers, increased proportion of VLS cells dedicated to interceptors, semi-submersibility, etc.

>>64439407
>itt what are ballistic missiles
chinkmutt hapa

>>64440262
What if you put a layer of ceramic armour overtop? Allegedly it works by dispersing the charge jet over a larger angle, because it breaks into very fine very hard powder, so if you had, say, a ceramic plate (with a 1/2" steel backing to keep it in place) spaced with a 3 or 4 foot gap, wouldn't it work even better than on tanks? No tank can afford the armour spacing a battleship can.

I have looked up studies on spaced armour vs shaped charges but without a ceramic layer it doesn't seem to do much without extremely large spacing. I never saw one that addressed ceramics though.

>>64440253
not a battleship, not even close
The only battleship sunk by a guided missile was Roma in WW2

>>64438744
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr0gNJ090JA

>>64438585 (OP)
they are literally describing zumzumwalt disney

>>64440340
>All you need to do is armor the citadel, gun/missile magazines, and propulsion/power generation
Nigger, that's what a citidel is. That's exactly how they did Iowa etc an all aon battleships. Fuck off and read a book you fleshy LLM, you fucking cretin. Navies were in love with battleships even harder than dipshits like you are, but they didn't want to die at sea so they faced the facts that armor wasn't a viable strategy anymore and stopped building battleships.

>>64439940
>US ships are not datalinked

>>64440555
>all that capacity
>still can't build a navy with half USN's tonnage
thoroughly unimplessed

>>64438585 (OP)
>Golden fleet
I am going to KILL that fat fuck. Everything is gold to him, except actual gold, which is too expensive and should be replaced with gold paint.

>>64440555
And yet US Navy still significantly outclasses Chink navy and coast guard in tonnage, without even counting US Coasties
Is this annually? Sauce?

>>64440555
>”new” aircraft carrier is a fucking steamship
implessive 1910s technology

>>64438849
HHI offered it to the Navy as a replacement for the current flight 3, but they turned it down because it has got to be made in the US.

>>64440581
>And yet US Navy still significantly outclasses Chink navy and coast guard in tonnage, without even counting US Coasties
Same for the Royal Navy in the webm at the start of WWII. The increase in US tonnage came during the war. And for that to be possbile there has to be shipbuilding capacity in place.
>Is this annually? Sauce?
A leaked US Navy briefing slide. Via: https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/chinas-shipbuilding-capacity-is-232-times-greater-than-that-of-the-united-states/

>>64440589
sage

>>64438585 (OP)
>a fast heavily armed warship reminiscent of a battleship, armed with long range hypersonic missiles
That’s a cruiser, not a battleship. OP is a faggot. It’s not a battleship if isn’t armored with like a minimum 1 foot thick hull and meant to form a battle line. Maybe we could call it a supercruiser or a battlecruiser, but I think we should call them goldencruisers.

>>64440531
Hang yourself immediately dumbfuck. You have to be fucking braindead to believe that it's impossible to create a composite armor array capable of defeating at least one hit from a large caliber Soviet-style ASM, especially within the loosened weight and space constraints of large warship with an all or nothing armor scheme. If tank armor is any indication, it's fucking trivial in comparison to protecting against kinetic projectiles unless your attacker is using something ridiculous and impractical like a triple shaped charge the size of an entire plane.
Having some modicum of protection, even if not in the same form as BBs, is obviously not an outmoded idea and is still exercised in modern ship design, unless you're ok with your expensive ship and its crew getting fucking vaporized in one shot from otherwise preventable catastrophic damage like a T-72.

>>64438585 (OP)
>battleship
Why stop there, bring back the Dreadnought

>>64438744
maybe he is Persian

>>64440701
Ships of the line with broadsides of railguns.

>>64438626
xitter screenshots should be a bannable offense

>>64438585 (OP)
sounds shit desu are they trying to cripple the US as a military power?

>>64440320
He wasn't so vain in that respect when he was young. He used to have actual taste.

>>64438614
>USA circa WW2 could clobber any other nation on the planet today.
nah, dones and any modern Euro military would shred WW2 USA,
nuclear subs
Euro fighters
Nerve Agents
Medium range missiles
Anti ship missiles
Attack helcopters
Helipcopters
Leopard Tanks
Semi automatic hugh capacity infantry rifles
Body armour
Let alone shit like matador Vs P51s
Modern Radars and Sonars
Cluster munitions
Semi automatic heavy artillery
WW2 was a loooooong time ago

>>64438864
Absolutely nothing stupid on spending money on the US Navy.

>>64442038
There is on gold plated missile boats built the size and armour of a ww2 battleship and powered by oil.

>>64442045
where did you take the gold plated part from, anon?

>>64442038
This bullshit is exactly teh retarded kirov class Russian cold war era b ig missile battleship concept. It was shit then and it is shit now. You are talking about the USA switching to peak socirt idiocy concepts and strategies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirov-class_battlecruiser

One sqadron of F35s could sink half the Chinese navy without breaking a sweat

>>64442054
Read OPs shitty literally who twitter screenshot and that will be come clear

You just might live long enough to see Supreme Commander tier 3 naval units exist in the real world.
I, for one, prefer the kinetic bombardment via large caliber railguns, but realistically the winner is a high speed "cruise missile" hauler.

>>64440609
We both know that a war between America and China would be enormously different from WW2. It's an all or nothing scenario, for the most part in that initial dice throw. The only things that would really survive long-term attrition are the subs. Ship building capacity would be eliminated. It's not like you can construct shit when your yards are conflagrations. I say that for either side.

>>64442238
If only the US had allies with shipbuilding capacity, oh well.

>>64442238
You can't kopenhagen either China or the US. Both are continent sized countries. Any war would exactly not be like "an all or nothing scenario, for the most part in that initial dice throw", but a prolonged effort where the industrial capacity to replenish the losses is far more important than the initial force setup.

>>64438658
I don't know. Pick any battleship that wasn't sunk by another weapon. Missiles rendered the entire concept obsolete and effectively killed all remaining battleships in existence.

>>64438724
>Bombers carry missiles
Correct. Roma was sunk by a guided glide bomb. Aka a missile without an engine.

>>64440558
>muh datalink
What part of "external sensors and antennas are all fucked" did you fail to understand?

>>64439473
>china numba won
That's the point, retard. You don't have to be mumba won to sink a shitty, obsolete garbage can. The average fucking thirdie with some 70's-era surplus AShMs can do it.

>>64439867
Retard. Nobody had anti-ship sized HEAT munitions in WWII.

>Even if a P-15 could penetrate (doubtful)
Doubtful to the utterly clueless only. P-15s armor penetration is literally over TEN TIMES the armor belt thickness of any battleship ever built. We're talking figures measured in FEET here.

>the damage would be significantly less than a 16" shell
Also incorrect. On a P-15 hit you now have a ~20-30 feet deep and 3-5 feet wide tunnel through your ship, and every compartment breached gets a nice fat load of up to several hundred kilograms of burning rocket fuel shoved into it as a cherry on top.

>>64442561
>anti-ship sized HEAT munitions in WWII.
Because conventional shells are a better solution for normal guns. Range and accuracy needs muzzle velocity, cross sectional density and rotation, so a SC wouldn't be better.
You have to search for different classes of weapon, slower, to find SC as anti-ship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistel
>Torpedoes or visual range plunging trajectories with conventional SAP (maybe guided) bombs were enough for that war.

>>64442561
>Retard. Nobody had anti-ship sized HEAT munitions in WWII.
Not him but some kamikaze planes had bigass shaped charges.
>Ki-167 "Sakura-dan": "Special Attack" (kamikaze) version equipped with one shaped charge thermite bomb of 2,900 kg (6,400 lb) in the fuselage behind the crew cabin. The shape of the bomb conducted the blast forward, projecting a jet capable of reaching nearly a mile with a maximum blast radius of 300 m (980 ft).

>>64442031
As you age, you progress mentally but not necessarily what we'd call "maturity". Some people have their own trajectory and they progress down some dark path.
What I mean is, assholes sometimes get better and assholes sometimes just become bigger assholes.
Someone like Trump has nobody to reality-check him on his bullshit because nobody really liked him and people were always just either using him or avoiding pissing him off because they shared a social group together. So no one who he'd actually listen to, would bother telling him that he needs to get a grip.

So he just gets worse and worse.

If poor people pull this shit, they either get locked up or taught a harsh lesson and rejoin the herd.
So it's kind of a rich people's thing to get into a death spiral of taste and sometimes cult bullshit, because you're such an asshole that nobody cares what you do to yourself.
Trump isn't unique in most of his worst traits, loads of people in those circles share many of those traits but not usually worst aspects of mental illness and inherited wealth that Trump has.

>>64438614
Yeah, is there any force today that could have 100 ww2 carriers, with around 30 to 90 airplanes?

At minimum this is 3000 airplanes.

>>64442808
Would be absolute mogged by AShM lol

>>64442032
Lmao there's only one "modern" military. Your faggy euro countrylet wouldn't even respond to the invasion for the first twelve hours.

>>64442846
Modern England, without support, could not recognize the threat, mobilize and destroy the entire US Navy circa WW2 before London was turned into a smoking crater.

If you flatten London you end the English state, instantly. The tactical differences between individual pieces of equipment could not matter less.

>>64439424
>Implying the Chinks can hit the broad side of a barn with the missiles they supposedly have but probably don't work staffed by undernourished bug people with no education other than party propaganda

Sure thing, Chang.

>>64442425
It truly would. Do you recognize the vast gulf of difference between then and now in terms of effectiveness of the weapons involved? Have you seen the massive, reinforced sub pens in France? Seen the damage done to them by random, unguided bombs? This is not the same world, not even close. If you knock out the capacity to build ships, the time it would take to rebuild any capacity whatsoever is measured in years. Only to have precision strikes remove that capacity once more. America's immense ship building capacity during WW2 was strictly because there was nothing anyone could do about it. Look at every other nation during that time and tell me with a straight face that they were able to churn out ships at all. Have you read into what the fuck happened after 1942 with Japan? They were, at a time, so far away that it necessitated building over a dozen planes which would carry just enough fuel to allow them to cumulatively refuel a single plane to go on a single mission out of China. And even with such immense logistical difficulties, America absolutely decimated Japan's capacity to rebuild their fleet. Do you have your head on straight? It is an all or nothing dice roll. If you sink the American fleet, you can eliminate America's ability to counter attack. If you sink the Chinese fleet, you can eliminate China's ability to counter attack. That is why the singular assets that would survive this engagement would be the submarines, and they could still do untold damage depending on how they are equipped and what they target. This isn't building quadcopters, that you can do in any place with a fuckin' roof. This is laughably complex process with an enormous amount of heavy industry.

If the Chinese sink the American fleet and then burn Newport to the ground, what do you think happens? We can just rebuild it and China will sit around with their cocks in their hand?

>>64439424
Has a Chinese warship been confirmed to hit one target six consecutive times (or any six targets within the same hour) in recorded history?

>>64442974
>If the Chinese sink the American fleet

>>64442977
YES. I am providing context to both scenarios, equal weight. If America sinks the Chinese fleet, the Chinese cannot rebuild. If the Chinese sink the American fleet, then America cannot rebuild. Comprehend that I am illustrating that this is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact that the world is no longer in the decade of 1940. To pretend otherwise, as the Anon who I am replying to keeps insisting, is actually willfully retarded and dishonest behavior.

And to clarify, I see no chance of China winning an exchange in the Pacific, I am just stating what happens after. He thinks that China can just magically rebuild their fleet after we turn their shipyards into rubble. Yeah, sure, and I'm Napoleon.

>>64438585 (OP)
>gold card immigration program

>>64440555
The numbers are staggering and it's so incredibly stupid how some americans want to simply forget the china's insane industrial lead. That difference right there is bigger than in ww2 with japs vs usa.

>>64442975
I don't think the PLA has been confirmed to do anything since forever, so their capabilities are a mystery even to themselves. When they finally find themselves in a war I think they'll find that most of their systems have serious drawbacks they'd never anticipated but a few will be more effective than they'd ever guessed.

>>64440614
I've been working on a design
make a ship extremely armoured and extremely fast, use her to chase down enemy ships and shrug off their missiles and so on until you're close in to obliterate everything with guns. Notably, said guns do not need to be that crazy by battleship standards, there are no battleships left to fight. (so my design is IMMUNE against her own guns; not just protected at some ranges, flat out IMMUNE.)
even though my design is approaching 400,000 t, it's a battlecruiser
or arguably a battleship. A battleship is for the line of battle, or analagously, since the line of battle doesn't exist now, it's meant to take any enemy ship in a slugging match.
Battlecruisers though are meant to act independently and hunt down slower and weaker ships.
So, if you're the first to build one, she's a battlecruiser, and technically a battleship.
The moment the second guy builds one, yours is just a battlecruiser, because that guy probably wants a heavily gunned ship to counter yours, and he's okay sacrificing a bit of speed to do it.

>>64440712
Mad drip.

>>64440320
>>64442031
>>64442675
That ornate, crowded Rococo/Louis the XIV style was real popular with many boomers in the late 70s through early 00s.
I hate it.

>>64442977
Based and Laconicpilled.
>>64442987
Gay and annoyingly feminine manner of speech.

There is no possibility of getting naval numbers back up while costs stay so absurdly high

>>64442974
>It truly would.
No it wouldn't.

>Do you recognize the vast gulf of difference between then and now in terms of effectiveness of the weapons involved?
The most important difference is the transparency of the battlefield. Every surface combatant is being tracked by satellites of a dozen nations at all times.
Again, you can't kopenhagen them. There are no surprise attacks anymore except against low-tech insurgents. Equally there are no precision guided munitions except against low-tech insurgents. As Ukraine has proved even a mid tier military can render GPS guidance worthless.
What matters in war is the ability to sustain and replenish losses.

If you think you could wipe out more than 50% of the worlds shipbuilding capacity in a single attack you are demented. America's 0.1%, however, is a different story.
At the peak, during WWII, America's shipyards could pump out one liberty ship in just under 5 days. China's shipyards today pump out one container ship, each of which is about 10x the size of a liberty ship, every 9 hours. Last year the giant shipyards of Changxing Island alone manufactured more ships tonnage-wise than all of America's shipyards combined since the end of WWII.
IT'S. OVER.

>>64443025
People are not underestimating Chinese steel overproduction and industrial dominance anon, it's on the minds of a lot of people.

>>64444276
China has yet to produce a single ton of modern warship, ever.

>>64444276
>a mid tier military can render GPS guidance worthless.
please detail, I am interested how

also, is it fair to have a massive battleship to go shoot up Chinese shipyards because missiles won't go there?

>>64444696
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-gave-up-sending-ukraine-100k-excalibur-shells-hit-targets-2024-5

>>64443025
This. China has the industrial advantage. US can't manufacture shit anymore. US acts all mighty now but in a real war, once the best weapons stockpiles are spent, those with the best and most efficient industry and supply chain will win.

>>64439580
>You could built small parts of a battleship from NERA/spaced arrays, but not a whole belt and not economically even compared to using STS.

Actually, no, anti shaped charge armor isnt technologically complex. They work on the principle of ablative elastic collision. The armor arrays inside tank armors are actually mostly empty space. And you fail to understand that even a very large shaped charge going off 3 charge diameters outside of the ship and projecting a pencil thin jet of molten copper isnt going to do as much damage as a shell or bomb exploding inside the ship. Against such a weapon, a 20 cm belt that covers the entire hull side of the ship would be best. Afterwards you would find a fist sized hole in the belt, and the jet would be absorbed by the ablative armor behind the outer belt.


Anti ship missile shaped charges are EFPs fired from a semi armor piercing warhead during its detonation inside the ship. It seems that people think anti ship missiles are like large anti tank missiles that detonate outside of the ship and shoot a jet inside it.

>>64439798

I cant imagine how nauseating it must have been to be on the bridge in heavy seas.

>>64440262
>Finally, T72 etc do it using composite arrays. You can't make a battleship out of those.

The composite arrays in a T-72 are not part of its load bearing structure and they are quite primitive. Composites are much lighter than solid steel and you could have a composite array belt 2-3 meter thick behind the outer steel armor. This would have an armor protection value against HEAT of about 5-8 meters of steel.

>>64440581
>And yet US Navy still significantly outclasses Chink navy and coast guard in tonnage, without even counting US Coasties
>Is this annually? Sauce?

Yes and this is due to each US carrier massing 100 000 tons and the helicopter deck LHAs 45 000 tons etc etc. The chink navy has lots of small coastal ships boosting their numbers while doing next to nothing for their total tonnage. This tonnage gap will shrink as the chinks build more and more large surface combatants.

>>64443547
>boomer meme leaves out that Phillip then proceeded to do exactly that

>>64442651
>The shape of the bomb conducted the blast forward, projecting a jet capable of reaching nearly a mile with a maximum blast radius of 300 m (980 ft).

I believe this is a misunderstanding, it would be able to throw burning thermite in a ballistic path for a mile, but it would not generate a jet capable of reaching a mile.

>>64444696
>>a mid tier military can render GPS guidance worthless.
>please detail, I am interested how

Russians spoof gps guidance in ukraine, making excalibur shells worthless because they steer off target.

>>64444892
>Russians spoof gps guidance

elaborate

>>64444276
>Single attack
Who the fuck said that? Where did I assert that anywhere? You still have yet to propose precisely how a shipyard is rebuilt or capable of pushing out military vessels while it's actively being destroyed, you smooth brained imbecile. You are doing the weirdest set of mental gymnastics I've seen in a while. Do you sincerely believe that during Dresden the factories there were able to continue manufacturing at peak capacity until they turned into ash? Do you not understand that Germany's manufacturing capacity was attrited despite the severe technological hurdles and danger?

Where the fuck do you think the phrase, "The bomber will get through." comes from and what it applies to? Good God. You are acting as if you can't destroy a shipyard despite this being a thing that happened many, many times in WW2. And worse, you're acting like either side could magically work through precision strikes. Finally, you ass, you do not need GPS. There are other ways to direct precision ordinance from a distance without GPS that cannot be jammed. What the fuck do you think an inertial guidance system is? God damn you are one insanely stupid asshole. I am convinced that you're a Wumao that thinks shipyards are magical fairylands that are impervious to being knocked out. Christ Almighty.

>>64444948
>a shipyard
Who the fuck said that? Where did I assert that anywhere?
China has HUNDREDS of shipyards.

>>64438585 (OP)
>let's make X because it's cool!
I have Trump fatigue.

>civilization advancement schedule already hamstrung from religious dark ages
>200+ years of industrialization but species still stuck on floaty boaty

This solar system is either deep within a superior civilizations territory, or protected by some babysitting space mercenary contract, pretty sure you tards would have been invaded by now, statistically impossible to get this lucky

>>64438803
>>The hum of chinesium forged motors comes to a halt
>>Three twelve inch holes in the engine compartment
>>That's like 30 centimeters for those of you in gay countries
>>Chinesium ship taking on water
>>Hong Fong taking a bath in the engine room, essential oils for his hair routine
>>Ship is going down
>>Captain Ho Lee Fook

CHING-CHONG DING-DONG

>>64444894
>>Russians spoof gps guidance
>elaborate

Anon posted a link earlier. Excalibur has a dual gps and inertial guidance system, in case of gps jamming, the intertia system is supposed to take over control, but the russians spoof the gps system instead of jamming it. Spoofing in this context means feeding the gps system false wavefronts making it believe its actual position is not where it is, leading to the guidance electronics steering the shell off course and it hits 1000 feet off target with great precision. This also killed the ground launched small diameter bomb system which uses a guidance system that also was from SAAB aerospace.

>>64438744
calling the New White Fleet is racist
plus the possibility of slipping and calling the New White Flight and nogs rioting over whitey paying for even less of their free shit

>>64438802
>there is tons of empty waterfront
empty waterfront is not the problem of shipbuilding, anon please

>>64440581
Now divide that US tonnage across its AoRs

>>64444870
What happens when the chinks finally feel safe enough to deploy one of their CVNs for more than 72 hours after building 5 of them and only the realize that the entire class have crippling logistical and sustainment problems?

>>64438585 (OP)
>capital ship/destroyer Maxxing
An interesting strategy, with merit
The US does have very bad manpower/labor/indutrial capacity shortages though, how will this make those problems go away?

>>64445367
They are only operating them in the pacific for now, not that hard to sustain them
In the long term I don't even see them maintaining a massive fleet forever

>>64445231
>posting zigger lies
LMAO

>>64438631
>11 million ton navy
FUND IT

>>64445295
enlighten me

>>64439843
>NATO reporting name: Kapusta, Russian for "cabbage")

kek

>>64444838
10,000 more 1940s fishing ships isn't going to win anything chang.

USN will do very very well at first, but if nukes fail to nip the bud before WW3 turns into a war of attrition..

>>64439882
This, and also Battleships are fucking sexy, and we should have one or two for floating up and down other countries’ coastlines and showing off.

Hitler's Maus tank.

>>64440555
>Look at all these poorly made gigaslop ships crewed by poorly trained and never tested chinks
Oooh, so scary

>>64446188
If you "do very very well at first" you've destroyed the coast of China and every dam on the Yangtze in a month.

>>64446188
The American advantage in WWII was not so much its quantity of industry, but that it was so far from the front it could not be attrited by enemy action, and was effectively self sufficient in terms of energy and material inputs. China has neither of these advantages, they rely on Middle Eastern oil as well as Australian coal and iron, none of which will be getting to their ports in a war scenario. Their major shipyards are all contained in the combat theatre the war will be fought in, they cannot be expected to safely perform work during a war. American shipyards have much lower output, but Pascagoula, Bath Iron Works, and Electric Boat are all on the other side of the world and are not being hit without the use of ballistic missiles. In a hypothetical WWIII there is no equivalent to America in WWII. It is the US occupying the role of Great Britain and China playing the role of Germany. China is at a severe geographical disadvantage in this scenario that will erase many of their starting industrial advantages if the war goes beyond a few months. The decisive naval actions of any Sino-American war will not be fought in the vicinity of Taiwan, but in the Straits of Hormuz and Malacca, where China is at a distinct disadvantage.

>>64446528
That seriously won't be enough. Destroy those dams and galvanize the single largest most lopsided birth pyramid in history and suddenly hindsight will be 20/20.

>>64442723
underated

>>64446745
What's chang going to do about it?

>>64445174
Hello, Kang.

>>64438585 (OP)
>BATTLESHIP

Went the way of the dodo bird because they are so easy to sink with airpower and since then the airborne threat has only gotten worse. This is just orange pedo doing zombie Reaganism again

Here's my design. USS New Jersey for scale.
--make it long and thin for SPEED
--needs to chase missilecucks down
--ceramic armour on a steel shell 3 ft over the main armour
--armour continuous around hull (keel and deck) and welded for structural use (saves weight, allows armour to be even thicker)
--44" armour (not anymore, new design has 36" plus a 12" turtleback)
--shit ton of nuclear power (seriously, you need 1 or 2 Chernobyl reactors under the deck)
--why not use some of that power for LASERS?
>missiles coming in
>megawatt lasers vaporise the biggest ons
>smaller missiles smack into hull and explode without serious damage
--ram bow
--20" cannons for fighting battleships
--15" cannons for still being massive overkill on everything else, and cheaper

>>64446188
You need a common front for a "war of attrition". USA and china don't have them. China can't reliably ship millions of soldiers to america and expect to grind them there. Their ginormous frontline infantry is nigh useless against an enemy the other side of the world

>>64446638
>It is the US occupying the role of Great Britain and China playing the role of Germany.
Delusional. Germany's shipbuilding capacity was less than Britain's, not 230 times as big.

>>64438585 (OP)
Destroyers, not aircraft carriers, are the modern battleship. They are the most powerful surface combatants afloat. Many are approaching the weight of pre-dreadnought battleships. A modern guided missile destroyer could destroy a mid-20th century battlewagon with ease. If a carrier got into a gun battle with a destroyer, it would be destroyed easily. That is why they need destroyers to escort them.

Any navy without destroyers, is like a early 20th century navy without battleships. Destroyers are the modern battleship, and all naval strength should be measured in destroyers, not carriers or SSBNs. They should be considered capital ships.

The USN has over 100 destroyers and destroyer-based cruisers.

>>64445936
I'd like you to consider this >>64438631 webm related.
see how the US tonnage before the war wasn't that out of the ordinary ?
see how it exploded after the war started ?
that's what will happen if your relationship with china worsens more than it already has. China could probably surpass your total tonnage in one year if they needed/wanted to, but since WW3 is not winnable they choose not to unless they have to while maintaining the capability.
But you know this.
I know this, yet you keep pretending as if you didn't because you are a fucktard shill sitting in Eglin, wasting tax payer money (which you are too BTW) for fruitless propaganda missions.

>>64443404
>based nuclear panzerschiff designer
technically it would be a heavy cruiser, battlecruisers are heavy cruisers that are heavy enough that they can be expected to bring up the rear in a line of battle, i.e. duke it out with battleships if need be

>>64445174
the greys are systematically sabotaging our civilization because they've grown fond of probing our bussies and if you do that to spacefaring species the Space UN issues statements of deeb gongern

>>64448477
Carrier wouldn't get into a gun battle with a destroyer, it would get into a plane battle
Because it carries planes

>>64445174
>religious dark ages
I think the Finno-Korean Hyperwar had a much stronger effect on technological stagnation.

>>64448604
Harpoon anti ship missiles have a range around 150miles while f18s have a combat range of 4-600 miles and a carrier can outrun a destroyer

>>64448628
I question the validity of this graph

>>64445555
Digits confirm, although I'd want to see a 11 million ton ship as well.

>>64446188
Why? Because most of the USN would have died laughing at China?

>>64448651
Well the effect of the destruction of Maldek might be a little exaggerated, but otherwise it's pretty spot-on.

>>64445596
not that annon
first you'd have to build the shipyards and the industries to supply them.
then you'd have to increase the production of all the component parts that go into the ships such as radars, electronics, engines ect.
finally you'd need to find and probably train from scratch the personnel you'd need to lay down the hull and then fit the components.
all personnel involved in all of this would ofc have to be vetted and give appropriate clearances.
so it isn't as easy as forcing tyrone into a welding class
finding a suitable bit of coastal or riverine real estate to build the drydocks on is the smallest and easiest of the challenges you'd face trying to expand USN shipbuilding capacities

>>64448660
>african proto-kangdoms mogging the romans in terms of technology

>>64448477
>Destroyers, not aircraft carriers, are the modern battleship.
destroyers are used as escorts for carriers
carriers are the centerpiece while destroyers are the support
destroyers are more like cruisers

>They are the most powerful surface combatants afloa
carriers beat destroyers and by a huge margin

>. If a carrier got into a gun battle with a destroyer, it would be destroyed easily.
a destroyer would be sighted and destroyed before it even got a chance to fire its missiles by a squadron of fighters

>>64438585 (OP)
Total waste of time.
Modern battles need MONITORS and MISSILE MONITORS made from converted oil tankers with hundreds of vertical launch tubes.
Battleships are some bullshit from a bygone era of fail.
We've moved on as a species, lad.
Why is the usa always behind the world's curve?
Drones/Missiles rule now.

>>64448530
eglin schizo spotted

>>64448743
>Why is the usa always behind the world's curve?
>Drones/Missiles rule now.
the US was one of the first mass-adopters of drones
they had drones in the vietnam war, they had drones in the gulf war
the entire political-debate about drone strikes began when the US was the first to use armed-drones in a widescale conflict

when has the US ever been behind in drone technology?

>>64448752
We build quality drones that are very expensive, we are looked down on because while don't ductape mortars for $100 diy hobby drones

>>64448752
never
a Kennedy died in WWII piloting an optionally-manned naval strike aircraft

>>64438657
>>64439333
Can we please just build one?

>>64448872
what a silly idea
contract Tesla to build a fully automated ship megafactory, standardize on a pattern, build a thousand of the suckers

>>64438585 (OP)
Navy is outdated. A b-21 can drop a quicksink and take out a $10billion target. A bunch of fucking corvettes and small frigates is enough to patrol the waters of the world.

The US is going to actually fall at this rate if any of this shit is real. I'll be in a fancy french chateau so who gives a shit at that point. I tried to help and these tards would rather watch the world burn.

>>64448872
Navy looked at it. No Bueno. The cost of all those missiles, just sitting there is prohibitive. Its also against the distributive lethality concept which is essential in a China fight because you will take losses - avoiding having your eggs in one basket and whatnot.

>>64449010
lol

>>64439407
>what is max slant range on reentry
Retard.

>>64448723
the works of the shitalians pale in comparison to the genius of Yakub.

>>64449010
glowing russian hands typed this post

>>64439878
Bullshit, sortie rate for B-21s is going to be dogshit, each CVN is generating 200+ sorties a day after Anderson gets obliterated and ACC has like a 15 hour transit time for a single sortie.

The answer is we have to recapitalize the naval air wing. There has not been a new naval oriented fighter design to hit US flight decks since the late 1960s. Its bullshit. All our advanced programs where canceled to slop more money on retarded air force bullshit, we needed the Avenger 2 and Advanced Tomcat but got fucking blasted by the Tailhook scandal and there hasn't been an aviator CNO in this century. Fucked up timeline.

>>64449038
>all eggs in one basket
Like a carrier or a battleship?

>>64449092
No way to distribute a carriers air-wing efficiently. With "battleships" a Zum with three hypersonics and an engagement envelope of The Pacific Ocean means distribution is less important because it can operate outside of the threat umbrella and do so with the RCS of a small fishing boat.

Im talking about your traditional cruisers and destroyers which have to operate within the most contested parts of the Ao.

>>64449010
I feel you, anon.

>>64449072
I kneel

>>64448750
>eglin schizo spotted
Is there only one or is it a catch phrase of Mumbai shills?

>>64448795
>we are looked down on because while don't ductape mortars for $100 diy hobby drones
Sneering at a high/low mix is a little silly.
Ukraine is operating both Bayraktars as well as quadcopters with RPG heads ducttaped to them.

>>64450511
The US has a high low mix as well, our low just isn't made of duct tape and vulnerable to EW and sourced from our primary rival.

>>64438585 (OP)
>over ship count
Wow. So the US Navy is shrinking.
Politicians are being chewed out for this in Australia because the Navy will shrink for several years before expanding higher than ever before.

>>64450538
>The US has a high low mix as well, our low just isn't made of duct tape and vulnerable to EW and sourced from our primary rival.
Neither would Ukraine's if US would step up.

>>64450561
Why would the US "step up"? Ukraine is not an American ally and a quick end to the war would leave Russia as a threat to American interests. Much better to let them burn themselves out and then buy up what's left for lunch money afterwards.

>>64450582
Something something NAFO hohohohols

>>64450582
>Ukraine is not an American ally
They clearly were, Trump fucked that up and pushed them into Europe's arms but they're fighting American's fight so that de facto makes them an ally.
Why do you not arm a someone who is fighting your enemy?
Because they'd turn on you? Never stopped the USA from arming utter psychos before and Ukraine isn't likely to turn on the west.

>>64446638
They are aware of that risk, that's why like other non oil and coal countries it has diversified into renewables that cant be embargoed.

>>64450624
Sorry, allow me to rephrase that: the US has no contractual obligation to Ukraine. Also the US is and has been arming Ukraine to fight Russia, just not at a rate sufficient to end the war. Imagine if the US had announced in 2021 that they would be guaranteeing Ukraine's sovereignty and pre-2014 borders. Russia would have had to pack up and go home and they'd still be on NATO's border with practically their entire Soviet stockpile intact. Our real arrangement is much better: we drip feed weapons into Ukraine at a rate that ensures that neither side will ever win. In a few more years, the entire Russian state will collapse, and then the US can step in and rebuild it as an American tributary like Japan or Germany.

>>64443530
calling the shit you see in boomers houses 'rococo' is an affront to the term
i get why you're calling it that, but it's such a crude and widespread imitation/evolution that i think it deserves its own name

>>64450655
This, actively crushing Russia as an enemy will only let the chinks hoover up what is left. And that's worse than losing Ukraine.

>>64450677
Chinks will try to hoover up what's left regardless, which is as likely to start WW3 as Taiwan is. But if WW3 is going to happen, we might as well go into it fresh.

>>64450686
one would expect them to use limited wars with russia and india as learning exercises in their build up to their actual attempt at the west philippine sea

>>64450655
>the US has no contractual obligation to Ukraine
You don't need a legal obligation to act in your best interests.

>>64450695
>their actual attempt at the west philippine sea
Haha, I was talking to a flip online last week who called it that.
Is it an official term?

>>64450730
lmao surely not, i just think its funny when people calling russia eastern Ukraine, or mainland China western Taiwan and the like

>>64450695
Except that the moment the US enters a war with some third world shithole, China invades Taiwan.

>>64438608
why is replacing the old ass fuck cruisers we have a "fever dream" shithead.

>>64450856
I'm very sorry they're being mean to your prophet.

Don't listen to them, he's deffo not a half senile pedophile who knows less about effective defence policy than a dead possum.

>>64450729
The US's best interest is the dissolution of the Russian Federation, not the continuation of the status quo.

>>64450966
i disagree, the balkanization of russia would bring with it severe risks to security, and not just the risk of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of rogue actors, its much better to let them distract themselves with their retarded border squabble, which is incidentally quite systematically reducing their ability to wage future wars

>>64445367
...anon. They've deployed them for months-long shakedown and test cruises.

>>64445596
Shipbuilding is extremely work-intensive, dirty, sometimes dangerous and all-around not that attractive of a job. ESPECIALLY when you're an entry-level schmuck with zero experience. What shipbuilding there is in the US right now is in a massive labor crisis because people don't want those jobs even when they pay on par with or somewhat above above white collar work.

>>64451001
Which is why the US will have to move in to administrate the remains to ensure global security, which then forces China to either invade, triggering WW3 with China as the bad guys and the rest of the world aligned against them, or pussy out and back down as the US invites themselves to share a land border with them.

>>64447907
>breaks apart under its own weight in medium sea states

>>64451048
No they haven't. The longest deployment they've done is 24 days, with the next longest being 16 days.
Testing sea trials where 80% of the systems are offline and only one is being tested at any given time, owing to zero sortie generation capability does not count.

>>64451085
Uh huh. Cool story, bro. $0.02 have been added to your alphabet soup patriotic credit score.

>>64451092
Instead of coping and seething, why don't you just prove him wrong?

>>64451076
>armour the keel and deck
>weld all armour
it is now a massive box girder and by my calculations, if picrel bridge ever falls down, you can rest the ship across the river and drive trains on it

>>64451097
All he can do is prove me right lol
https://jamestown.org/program/pla-navy-shifts-training-focus-from-near-shore-to-blue-water-operations/
https://news.usni.org/2023/04/25/chinese-aircraft-carrier-shandong-back-in-south-china-sea

>>64438874
the obsession with performative theatrics and showing off is really the pristine final touch cherry placed on the icing of the cake that is the decaying of the Ameristani empire

>>64451151
Why do thirdies always come up with some phonetic clusterfuck instead of saying America? Are you scared of the word?

>>64451151
>redecorating a room
>an obsession with performative theatrics and showing off
they didnt even replace the chairs
https://www.ahs.com/home-matters/lifestyle/the-evolution-of-the-oval-office-decor/

>kino back on the menu
I would like one order of kino, please. With a side dish of kino and a large kino drink. Thank you

>>64451159
>Why do thirdies always come up with some phonetic clusterfuck instead of saying America?
Seems a bit rude to Canada who are mostly squared away.
The southern continent might have a few words too.

>>64438744
>>64438834
>thanks for the gold kind stranger
That's what's with r/thedonald and gold

>>64452149
>>64452149
Donald was a child that never got any gold stars in class.

>>64438585 (OP)
And EMALS are gone!:
x.com/clashreport/status/1983078643006873749?
https://www.twz.com/sea/executive-order-to-go-back-to-steam-catapults-on-new-aircraft-carriers-coming-trump#comments

>>64453740
Are we just going to keep pretending the President isn't a fucking retard? Or can we finally call a spade a spade?

>>64454384
EMALS have been a disaster. This is well documented.

>>64454386
>This is well documented.
can i see the documents?

>>64454391
>can i see the documents?
I mean, sure, you could be a tourist and not know anything about a subject that has been discussed to death on /k/.

>>64454386
May I see the disaster?

>>64454397
>a subject that has been discussed to death on /k/.

the last time this was discussed on /k/ was back in 2017 when trump said the exact same thing.

>>64454398
Your admission that you're not aware of the ongoing saga relating to the Ford Class and EMALS immediately disqualifies any opinion you may have on this subject.

>>64454397
If you're so scholarly surely you can post some for those of us who don't spend all day shitposting

>>64454405
No, that's the last time YOU discussed it because you're here to discuss Trump not EMALS.

>>64454423
>I have no idea of even the most basic information but I have VERY STRONG opinions

>>64454425
It's irrelevant. The system has been improving and it will probably be working at some point. Scrapping it to go back to steam catapults is fucking retarded. Guided missiles also had failure rates higher than a fucking cannon when first implemented, but that didn't stop us from moving forward with them. Scrapping them would have put us behind our adversaries. It's such a stupid concept that it's not even worth discussing.

>>64454481
>The system has been improving and it will probably be working at some point.
Ah yes, I too look forward to going to war with something that will work "at some point", has ballooned the price per hull by 25%, requires specialists to be flown in (during operations, in the middle of the ocean) to repair, and has delayed the whole program to such an extent that for 12-18 months we're going to be short two carriers.

>>64454487
By the time you change everything back to steam, you could have simply fixed the issues instead, you fucking retard. The failure rate is also not so high as to be some gigantic cause of concern. And, again, the same criticism could be levied at the guided missile. This is retarded reformer idiocy.

>>64454502
Fords been in service for a decade. Currently, its EMALS averages 181 cycles between failures. The target is 4,166 cycles.
>4% of its intended reliability target

>>64454511
What is the categorization of the failures? Not every failure is the same. The people in charge of these systems seem to like them well enough, so why is a retard telling the services what to do when they could, on their own, decide to scrap it? Why do we need Dear Leader to tell us something that the clearly more experienced and educated people in charge of making those decisions for some fucking reason don't seem to know? Or can we finally admit that listening to a retard isn't the way to go?

>>64438585 (OP)
Is there a tangible benefit to having one big ship with lots of missiles over lots of small ships with a few missiles?

>>64454592
1. Sunk-cost fallacy
2. The goal is 4000 cycles between failures. They are currently at 180. After almost a decade in service.

>>64454681
>1. Sunk-cost fallacy
So, by that logic, we shouldn't have kept going with guided missiles, right?

>>64454693
If a guided missile operated at 4% capability, yes.

zam, dump really is an expert on everything

>>64454511
>>64454681
>>64454502
It costs way more to redesign and put steam in than it does to fix EMALS.

>>64455344
>It costs way more to redesign and put steam in than it does to fix EMALS.
That's the idea, feed the MIC more money.

>>64454698
The Sparrow III had a hit rate of around 9% in Vietnam. That's easily comparable, so I guess we're just going to go ahead and confirm your status as a fucking retard, just like the President.

>>64455426
>The Sparrow III had a hit rate of around 9% in Vietnam
>That's easily comparable
No its not. Sparrow III had a 71% hit rate in training and testing.

>>64455426
>>64455580
Sparrow III is actually a really good analogy. It was so bad we had to take a step "backwards" and retrofit guns on Phantoms. Much like EMALS being so bad we're going to have to take a step backwards and take another look at steam.

>>64454433
Your documents, sir?

>>64455598
At worse, you could have some kind of backup system, but realistically, we're too far along the way to using this that it's easier to simply work out the kinks. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the technology, and it's simply an implementation problem.

>>64455623
>There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the technology
Its failure rate is still absolutely massive and the USN doesn't even have the right to repair most of the systems.

>>64438796
>I want an actual populist for once that seems to listen to people.

There's a fundamental problem with that, though. Let's look at what the most populist populist in history had to say about it:

>Mein Kampf contains the blueprint of later Nazi propaganda efforts. Assessing his audience, Hitler writes in chapter VI:

>Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. (...) All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. (...) The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another. (...) The great majority of a nation is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood.[5]

A populist rules by reducing the population to its dumbest, least critical state and then appealing to that stupidity. The populist leader is then largely limited to doing stupid things. When the People say, "2 plus 2 equals 3 and we need to hurt (((them))) for trying to indoctrinate our CHILDREN that it's four" the populist leader can never, ever, ever, ever, ever say, "But it is four."

>>64438803
interesting tidbit, since the time when a little Russian made missile boat sank an Israeli destroyer, ASM have been HEAT and even a smaller ASM will easy BTFO an Iowa or Yamato thickest armor.

another tiddy: Trump is a retard surrounded by clowns (and Kikes).

>>64455719
Fascism is not "populist"

>>64455647
>Its failure rate is still absolutely massive and the USN doesn't even have the right to repair most of the systems.
Seems like the problem isn't the system in general, but specific aspects of maintenance and implementation, neither of which warrant trying to shove a bigger, more outdated system in a ship entirely designed for something else. Enjoy the American Admiral Kuznetsov.

>>64455787
Selective populism is very much part of fascism.

>>64438744
Because he's so tacky he makes rappers look like Old Money

>>64455819
Yeah, whatever. Trudie.

>>64438585 (OP)
BBs becoming a thing again has the same stench as the ramming craze from the 1860s.

>>64438802
>like he promised he would
Your fell for it again award looks like picrel doesn't it?

>>64455863
Then what is your solution to the current ship building gridlock? Just do nothing and keep failing behind?

>>64455863
>fell for it again award
Bizarre argument to make in month 10.

>>64455866
I think anon agrees that something should be done. I think he disagrees that the senile faggot in the White House will actually get anything done, mostly because he currently lacks the expertise he held in this last administration, and because he's a belligerent retard that is likely to go back and forth on the same thing for months or years.

>>64455870
Trump has done a huge amount to improve US shipbuilding capacity. Sometimes I sincerely wonder if you dudes are literal shills. Because, you pretend to care about a subject but also know very little about that subject, which is inherently contradictory.

>>64438819
This is like the fourth time that's happened (but now FINALLY Jeune École is going to actually work, for real bro, I mean it this time)

>>64455870
>>64455866
>Signed Executive Order “Restoring America’s Maritime Dominance” (Apr 2025)
>Declared U.S. shipbuilding a national security priority
>Ordered creation of a Maritime Action Plan to rebuild yards and workforce
>Directed DoD, DHS, DOT, MARAD to buy U.S.-built vessels where possible
>Called for review of regulations slowing ship construction
>Proposed fees on foreign-built (esp. Chinese) ships entering U.S. ports
>Continued and expanded MARAD Small Shipyard Grant Program ($87.5 M+ in 2025)
>Announced $20 B CMA CGM investment in U.S. shipbuilding and port upgrades
>Pushed union-supported “maritime industrial base” jobs plan
>Emphasized military-commercial integration (Navy logistics, sealift, Arctic fleet)
>Promoted “Buy American” maritime preference laws enforcement
>Tasked agencies to assess domestic yard capacity and workforce gaps
>Framed shipbuilding revival as part of economic nationalism / decoupling from China
You will be forced to live in a new American Golden Age, and you will be made to like it.

>>64455879
>Trump has done a huge amount to improve US shipbuilding capacity.
Like?

>>64455890
>You will be forced to live in a new American Golden Age, and you will be made to like it.
I would love for nothing more than for you to be right, but you are not, and it's obvious to everyone but you. In the end, reality must reassert itself.

>>64455902
>>64455902
Pure comedy.

>>64455911
Cant help but notice thats not an argument. Thats just you being brown and mad.

>>64455787
Populism will always end at fascism because the most popular populist axiom is that your dumbest self is your truest self, and your truest self is your rightest self. Humans are hard-coded to want to be intellectually lazy and it is only through its failure that we ever start to apply mental effort and build corrections around the dumb shit that we want to believe.
In the absence of your intellect actively questioning whether your dumbest self is correct he looks to be the most brilliant thing ever created. Every meme he likes is pure wit.

As the population devolves into into its most simian state as its leadership reinforces the decline by championing how "BASED" it is, the tiller of the ship of state only has two guidance states -- either towards where the Peoples' hot air blows (enforced by brutality over anyone who disagrees); or towards where the leader decides *he* wants it, enforced by brutality over anyone who disagrees. The majority is placated enough by the leader often entertaining their most evil desires that they'll accept that he knows best when he forces them to conform to his own mold.
It's an internally stable system since "Maybe we should be less dumb" has an uphill climb ahead of it and requires each individual to wake up to the fact that being stupid just isn't working, and then it needs to rise to a level in which a revolt can succeed against a system designed to brutally suppress dissent. Remember that to the jackbooted enforcer class the system is working just fine: they have both money and status which any revolt looks to jeopardize.

Since people *like* being dumb you're also threatened with the very likely possibility that the revolt will just replace one version of fascism with another, as the most violent and powerful group in the revolt will almost certainly not be the sober intellectual class, but a raving group of fanatics who were oppressed under the old leader.

>>64455920
Most of the things you listed are symbolic bullshit, just like the 23 wars he "ended"

>>64439434
>where is the money to build a battleship yard and a bunch of warships coming from?
Hey, we haven't COMPLETELY gutted the army top priority modernization efforts. Not yet. There's still plenty of stuff we could cancel. For example, "Assured Position Navigation and Timing". That sounds like something Hegseth wouldn't understand and is therefore a waste of tax dollars. And Next-Generation Short-Range Air Defense is woketarded and... I dunno, Low T? What we need is Next-Generation Short-RangedAir WAR. And while Austin made a good start by killing ERCA and FARA, it's up to Hegseth to finish off Long-Range Precision Fires and Future Vertical Lift by axing the PrSM, LRHW, and MV-75 Valor. We don't need that shit for the Pacific, right? Right?

>>64455890
>Executive Order
Yeah, that should take of it. He should sign one that makes eggs cheaper while he's at it.

>>64455854
It's not really alike because in the 1860s gun technology was lagging so far behind armor that a gunnery duel between ironclads could be inconclusive, so ramming was a legitimate tactic as was proven at the Battle of Lissa and the accidental collision that sank HMS Victoria showed that ram bows were still capable of sinking battleships in the 1890s.
What's happening now is more like if President Kennedy had said the US Navy needed to build new ram ships.

>>64456128
>I, er uh, think this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of replacing all our, uh, guided missile destroyers with unarmed steam rams. Not because guided missiles are ineffective, but because they are gay.

>>64456047
Given the Supreme Court is basically giving him the green light to do whatever he wants with federal agencies and the federal budget regardless of what Congress has specified, it means a lot.

>>64456131
>choosing weapons based on gayness
incredibly based and nonmaterialist pilled

>>64438744
Should be The Great White Fleet just so libtards will throw a fit and then you can say "akstually!" and give them a pedantic lecture about 1880s naval doctrine and paint schemes.

>>64454384
>Are we just going to keep pretending the President isn't a fucking retard? Or can we finally call a spade a spade?
This might be his Hitler Taking Command of the Army sort of moment.
If he's convinced he knows military doctrine this well, the pentagon is going to have to invent new ways to jam up change and probably have to fast-track and assign a few hand-picked officers who are going to get thrown under the bus for failing to implement policy changes that the pentagon itself intends to have fail.

>>64448530
>Total tonnage per year
Tonnage of WHAT?
of 1940s fishing ships.

>>64446745
>Galvanize
It would annihilate the Chinese economy permanently and starve half the population.

The remainder would eat each other, as the Han have done every single time they've encountered difficulties in history.