Thread 40922371

I've been trying to figure out if I'm trans or cis for about a year now.
Tried looking for signs in my childhood. There were none.
Tried introspecting whether I am dysphoric. Feel just fine with my body, mostly apathetic, but not like anything is wrong.
Tried a more feminine gender presentation. Felt either nothing or felt horrible.
Tried using different pronouns on a alt-account. It just felt like I was lying to people.
Tried hrt for a couple of months. Felt alright at first, but it began to feel profoundly wrong when the changes started to show.
Every single thing I've tried up until now has only reaffirmed the fact that I am just a cis man.
Being cis is obviously the more pragmatic, and thus preferable, outcome, but I simply can't accept it. Every time I am reminded I'm cis, a crippling dread washes over me.
I should love being a man, simply because I am one, but I can't help but obsess over what I am not and never will be. A woman.
How do I accept once and for all that I am just a cis man, and that I won't ever be a woman, and also that I don't want to be a woman to begin with?

>>40922371 (OP)
Do you want to look like a man? No? Then take HRT. It's not that hard. Wipe these words 'cis' and 'trans' from your head you neurotic bitch.

>>40922388
I don't know what I want to look like.
Imagining looking like a woman feels deeply wrong, despite it also feeling preferable to looking like a man, especially a middle aged one.
Looking like a man feels right, and I'm lucky enough to be handsome, but I'm also completely indifferent to it

>>40922408
>Imagining looking like a woman feels deeply wrong
Good thing HRT won't make you look like a woman

>>40922443
The untranny valley is obviously way worse than looking like a woman, except if one somehow ends up being an ethereal twinkhon

This is genuinely tearing me apart. Being cis makes me want to kill myself, transitioning makes me want to kill myself

>>40922371 (OP)
just stop attentionwhoring

>>40923016
I talk with nobody about this, only ever rarely post on this shitty board

>>40922371 (OP)
How are you sexually? Do you like cock or vagina?

>>40923136
I'm straight, but ever since this started I've lost all interest in anything sexual

>>40923149
I think you just need to find a nice big woman to caress you with her breasts.

>>40923159
This won't work, because it didn't work when it happened. To add to that, I'm way too disgusted by myself to be able to engage in intimacy by now

>>40922371 (OP)
I just enjoy my long hair. I use normal female hair cosmetics and have fun with my hair. It's all I need. The next thing is i don't worry about presentation, i am just myself. No words, only impression. I think the whole cis, trans, het is bs.

>>40922371 (OP)
I guessing you look like an average normal dude with average interests and life. You are just a cis man. Accept it and stop visiting queer spaces. Stop giving these topics space in your mind, make room for healthy thoughts. just stop thinking about it, its literally that easy. Right now you've made it a habit. Some aspect of trans is obviously appealing to you, but clearly not enough.
Can't you read your own writings?
> feel profoundly wrong when the changes started to show
> looking like a woman feels deeply wrong
You're not trans, and you already know this. You accept it by letting it go. Make a real effort to put this behind you and move on. Find something new to dwell and focus on. You're probably the type of person too lazy to change, gl.

>>40923194
Cutting my hair short is one of the decisions I regret the most in life. I thought it would make me look and feel more masculine, but it didn't .

>>40923281
>You are just a cis man
I know, and I hate it. There is no reason for me to hate it, but every time I'm consciously aware of the fact that I am a cis man, and that I'll always be a cis man, makes me want to skin myself alive.
>Accept it and stop visiting queer spaces
I've tried and it didn't change a thing. Despite not interacting with queer spaces for months in hopes that I'll be able to just get over this, I wasn't able to stop feeling this way.
>You're not trans, and you already know this
Obviously I do. I really should be grateful for that, and yet I can't. It feels like I'd be better of being trans rather than being myself
>You're probably the type of person too lazy to change
Very true, but any change feels entirely meaningless simply because I am a man

>>40923706
why does it make you want to skin yourself alive.

if you like looking like a man, and you feel alienated from yourself or profoundly & directly wrong when feminine changes happen to your body, it seems like you probably want to be cis male. so your hangup with the identity of cis male seems to be based in something else.

what do you dislike about being a cis man?

>>40922465
I take hrt simply because I want to look like griffith and live as a man

There is no such thing as being cis or trans outside of things you do. You are physically a male, when you take hrt you become trans. Whether this is the right decision or not is based entirely on your ability to navigate discomfort and weigh up the pros and cons of this decision. There is no moment where you will be like "oh i get it now im trans" or "oh i was a man all along" because to be like this inherently is to be confused, unfortunately things may always be fuzzy and you're always reaching out in the dark but at least you have the freedom to reach out and explore it. Its a stupid dichotomy because nobody feels like a man or a woman, nobody chose any of this. Its just simply something you become and hopefully eventually are able to accept.

What trannies refuse to accept is that being trans is a kind of mind virus, you cant put the genie back in the bottle once you humor the idea that you dont have to be the way that you are, even an ordinary guy can be affected by that who would have otherwise turned out normal. Because you can only choose to be one way, its honestly totally fucking normal. This could have been avoided by not watching anime and gooning to femboy porn but here we are.

>>40924020
>why does it make you want to skin yourself alive.
It feels existentially constricting. This is probably not even related to being a man, but it adds to me feeling less than human

>what do you dislike about being a cis man?
I genuinely don't know. Being a man feels right and I can't imagine myself ever being another person, but at the same time I genuinely hate that I am a man.
Thinking about the fact that other people see me as a man just deeply unsettles me, despite their perception being correct.
Everything and anything I do feels sisyphean as a man. I could put in the effort to superficially improve my life, which I definitely did, but not a single thing was ever able to make me feel any semblance of happiness or fulfillment. It feels like I am not living my own life

>your hangup with the identity of cis male seems to be based in something else
Most likely. Hope I'll be able to find out in what it's actually based though. All my efforts up until now were in vain

>Being a man feels right
>Thinking about the fact that other people see me as a man just deeply unsettles me

Forgive me anon but this seems like a contradiction to me, what do you mean by feels "right"?

>>40924198
Being perceived as a man feels right and also existentially unsettling at the same time. They are seeing me for who I really am, that being someone skinwalking a man.
I do not feel like a human, but I do feel like a man, so them seeing me as a man is the closest they come to seeing me for who I am

Same same

Also I guess you know who I am

>>40924183
there are a lot of ways to be a "man", anon. you can be male and act masculine and fulfill the social role of "man", or any combination of those, in so many different ways. my best advice to you is to stop thinking about yourself in terms of categories, whether "cis" or "trans" or "man", and think of yourself instead as an individual ontologically prior to any categories. just follow what makes you feel joyful and self-actualized. you can just be whoever you want to be in this life.

I'm not op, but in a similar situation.

I think mine mostly stems from me going bald despite using the meds. If I was trans I could possibly keep my hair using E, so for me that's a huge reason to want to be trans

repping is hell where brainworm never dies once it hatched... even before it feels very very off, something not being right, deeply wrong... no matter what you do it will be wrong thing to do. cursed. no real way out... maybe unless it will work somehow... when thevfuck will be at peace at last? fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck!
feeling loke downing a bottle and crying like little baby but i know better... fucking cursed world to be born on.

>>40924255
>think of yourself instead as an individual ontologically
If I look ontologically at myself as an individual, I only ever see a male individual. Ignoring looks, I definitely act like a man, I think like a man, I feel like a man, everything about me is male. This is a immutable part of me and it's not something I've chosen, despite it fitting me like a glove

>just follow what makes you feel joyful and self-actualized
I'm not even trying to doom here, but what if nothing I've ever done was able to make me joyful and make me feel like I am myself? I have very put in a ton of effort when it comes to being a man, having had a healthy social life with plenty of friends, a gf, a well trained body, etc, and nothing of it ever felt tangible?
Everything I do only ever feels like I'm playing a character and everything that ever happens in my life feels completely irrelevant and transient. Call this dissociation or whatever, doesn't matter, since I never ever felt an alternative to it.

>you can just be whoever you want to be in this life
I feel incapable of wanting. Everything feels disingenuous, like a farce, because it feels like I lack a self, so wanting is just cost-benefit analysis to me

>>40924271
Lol I also took estrogen to deal with hair loss, I went straight to the nuclear option and it worked.

>>40922371 (OP)
Don't worry about essence, descriptors, ontological truths about identity, or what the pragmatic option is (transitioning is rarely about pragmatism). If it's something you want for yourself, then you don't need to justify it or meet some requirement. You mention feeling uncomfortable / like you are lying when trying out different presentation. Does that come from shame over what you want compared to what you feel you should be wanting, or is it that you dislike those things for yourself? It sounds like you could either have TOCD and these are just obsessions, or you may be trans and have just internalized that this is something wrong. It's not something that other people can really decide for you. IMO the main thing you need to determine is what physical traits and presentation make you feel better/happier. You don't need to know everything about your identity right now, and worrying about whether you meet the criteria to be considered trans/female will just make you go crazy. It's also fine if you decide you like your male characteristics and don't want any of the changes hrt/transitioning would give you. Just do whatever feels more right for you. You also may want to try to find a competent therapist to help you work through this if you've been struggling with this for a long time.

>>40924649
Ig you knew you were trans and dysphoric and thus there were concrete reasons for taking E. My situation is different, where I know I am cis but cannot accept that

>>40924684
Yeah when dealing with trans issues everyone is so imprisoned by the cis normaitve concept of reality where everyone is trapped in a box of male/female. Being trans isnt about being male or female because transition is always partial. Thats why there is so much cope over how "trutrans" you are because everyone wants so badly to be normal and live a normative life but its limiting to stay in that box. Transition will always be partial, its better to think in terms of specific changes rather than trying to put yourself in a box.

>>40924684
>Does that come from shame over what you want compared to what you feel you should be wanting, or is it that you dislike those things for yourself?
I can't tell, especially since it oftentimes wildly fluctuates between the two.
On some days I really want to desire to be a woman, simply to escape from what I am right now, and on other days I am deeply disgusted merely by imagining myself as someone trying to pretend to be a woman

>It sounds like you could either have TOCD and these are just obsessions, or you may be trans and have just internalized that this is something wrong
I really really hope I don't have TOCD, but only because that would mean I also have OCD, which is something I really don't want to have to deal with. It's probably not TOCD though, since I don't have and obsessions or compulsions outside of thinking about gender.
It also doesn't feel like I am trans, since I simply am most comfortable with being a man. I really don't like it, but it's the only thing that feels right. As mentioned in the op, I've tried plenty of stuff just to see whether I'd feel any happier, and nothing had any positive effect. There definitely is underlying shame to it all, but mostly because it feels like I'm trying to skinwalk a trans person rather than my male self

>IMO the main thing you need to determine is what physical traits and presentation make you feel better/happier
Genuinely, how do I determine this if everything only ever had negative results? I really don't want to be pessimistic, but I genuinely can't think of any physical traits or presentation that would make me feel happy. I am comfortably numb with my current presentation, only because it's almost devoid of any personality

some real shit in this thread. idk. i see myself as a cis man who was very close to just living a normal life with normal moid friends. just got bored one day and reddit tranny slop gave me brainworms. got on diy almost immediately in my late teens and now im trapped on it and every day wanna come off. no one irl knows about my hrt use. i see it purely as an addiction for me. i hate it. i wish i could stop. im just in too deep to let it go. part of me almost feels dysphoric at my hideous beta male tranny body and another loves it bc i have agp. anyways. i ended up a weird looking twinkhon bodymoder thing and i keep my hair short. its tough out here. honestly OP, your basically just begging us to convince you to start hrt. Dont do it. It ruined me. Run away. It doesnt get better. Being a man is fine and wholesome, dont let some stupid substance issue get in the way of it.

>>40924928
>honestly OP, your basically just begging us to convince you to start hrt
Quite the opposite actually. I'm currently about one month on hrt, and I desperately need to convince myself I'm genuinely ruining my life by continuing to take it. I genuinely dread the changes, but stopping it also means I'll just go back to being a regular cis man, which is almost equally as dreadful

so you fear coming out and/or potential regret and living with srigmanof being pathetic failed man faggot thing? or what? you want to neither masculinize nor feminize and be 14 for life prettyboy

>>40925379
Tbh, I just don't want to exist. Obviously I would fear coming out and potential regret, but that's not my main worry.
Taking hrt genuinely feels wrong, despite me desperately wanting it to feel right.
Aging as a man feels right, despite me desperately wanting it to feel wrong.

bump

>>40924928
There's no way you don't enjoy estrogen to some extent

>>40922371 (OP)
>but I can't help but obsess over what I am not and never will be. A woman.
that is LITERALLY
CLINICALLY
DEFINITIONALLY
gender dysphoria

retard

>>40924848
What about imagining being a woman, not trying to be one? If you could become a woman entirely, or perfectly look like one even if you identify differently, how would you feel? Obviously if you imagine yourself trying to imitate something it's going to feel wrong. Do you feel restricted by presenting either way? For the purposes of figuring out what you want it helps to decide what you would want to look like even if it's not achievable right now so you can start moving in that direction.
>>40925275
Can you explain why you dread the changes? Is it because you dread what comes with it if you continue, how people will judge you, or the changes themselves? Do they feel wrong because you feel like they're wrong or not enough on the body you have, or because you don't want them at all? It might help to imagining how you would design a body for yourself if no one remembered what you looked like and you could be anything. If you want it to be androgynous that's something too.

>>40926525
I don't actually want to be a woman though. Just imagining it is enough to make me feel uncomfortable, which is also why I can't wrap my head around stuff like agp and such.
The fact that I will always be just a man is almost just as horrible though

>>40925428
Wanting it to feel right makes it seem like it's something you want, but you feel it's something out of your grasp.

>>40926558
buddy
friend

>>40926558
Can you articulate why it makes you feel uncomfortable? Is it because you feel like you'd be pretending, or don't want the expectations? Does everything about it seem wrong to you, or is it something you normally want, but struggle to imagine yourself doing? Just to be clear, I think it's pretty normal to feel uncomfortable when trying to imagine transitioning, regardless of whether you're cis or trans. As cringy as it can be, there's a reason a lot of thought experiments for figuring out whether you're trans involve magic or instant change. You just need to figure out if it's something you want at all, or whether this is just a rumination or passing thought. You don't need to think about the how or why of it for now.

i have the same problem OP, i dont act like a man, dont want to be a man. but do i feel like a woman? no, i feel like a ridiculous skinwalker, i know that ultimately, i am a man with male genetics and personality, but for some reason something in me rejects all these things even though they cant be changed, its like my soul is rejecting itself, like a failed organ transplant.

>>40926542
>If you could become a woman entirely, or perfectly look like one even if you identify differently, how would you feel?
I can't tell, because the person I imagine fundamentally doesn't feel like myself. If I imagine "myself" completely looking like a woman and being happy about it, that person doesn't feel like me, but imagining my current self suddenly looking perfectly like a woman, it feels like body horror, despite maybe thinking I'd be prettier.

>Do you feel restricted by presenting either way?
Yes. I have no interest in gendered presentation, only in what's fashionable. Dressing a man's body is more cumbersome than dressing a woman's body though, simply because men are larger. Having great proportions for a man, I am able to style some outfits quite well, and others which I'd like are simply not possible.

>Is it because you dread what comes with it if you continue, how people will judge you, or the changes themselves?
Both. I definitely greatly fear the consequences and judgement that will inevitable come with trooning out, but I also deeply fear the changes themselves. Sometimes the changes just feel preferable to testosterone, and I feel like I could like them. Other times I feel a visceral wrongness at the thought of them. Breasts are a good example, especially since they're the only really permanent effect of hrt, sometimes I think they're nice, other times they feel like tumors which I need to get rid of.

>Do they feel wrong because you feel like they're wrong or not enough on the body you have, or because you don't want them at all?
It varies, most of the time the former, and sometimes intensely the latter.

>It might help to imagining how you would design a body for yourself if no one remembered what you looked like and you could be anything
My current answer would be: androgynous tall woman with a toned body

>>40926757
Personally, I felt the same way, but after having a multi-year depressive spiral I decided that if I kept trying to conclusively prove whether or not I was trans / a woman it was going to kill me. Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of it is societal, and cis women don't typically have to prove their womanhood or feel a certain way; it's just what they are regardless of any other factor. A woman who acts stereotypically masculine might be joked about, but they will still be viewed as a woman where it matters. Trans people tend to be simultaneously held to a higher standard of femininity while also being ridiculed for performative femininity. I still have trouble viewing myself as a woman or even trans despite being on hrt for years, but if you feel dysphoric about your body or identity, then I think that's all the justification you need to transition. Trying to measure yourself against the shifting scale of womanhood will just make you miserable.

>>40927009
I kinda came to the same conclusion but everyone wants to have real justifiable reasons for transitioning understandably. It just is clear to me that some people transitioning is good for them, they end up being feminine enough they can have a real life, and some people just end up as perpetual eunuchs who arent quite women or men and are extremely miserable. i dont think for me theres much point either way. thats the sad reality of it.

>>40926735
>Can you articulate why it makes you feel uncomfortable?
I wish I were better with my words, but the best way I can put it into words is also the most blunt one. It feels wrong. I might want it, but it just feels wrong

>Is it because you feel like you'd be pretending, or don't want the expectations?
Definitely. I'd hate to put in the effort of transitioning only to feel like I'm skinwalking a poor imitation of a woman instead of skinwalking an actual man. All gendered expectations, no matter the gender, are something I pretty much despise.

>Does everything about it seem wrong to you, or is it something you normally want, but struggle to imagine yourself doing?
I never wanted to be of the opposite gender as a kid, but ever since learning about hrt about a year ago (don't ask me how it took that long), I've been constantly thinking about it. I definitely struggle imagining myself doing it though, not only because it feels unachievable, but also because it just seems wrong to me. No matter the effort poured in to transitioning, it will never change the fact that I am a man. This isn't meant in the typical "iwnbaw" way, but much rather in the sense that my internal sense of self would still be that of a man's. It will definitely just feel wrong to me because of that.

>You just need to figure out if it's something you want at all, or whether this is just a rumination or passing thought.
This is what I haven't been able to figure out. If it is just a rumination or a passing thought, then it's a very persistent one, and one to which my mind always returns back to. At this point it would make sense to suspect TOCD, but I am very confident I don't have OCD.
It's basically impossible for me to tell whether this is something I do truly want though, because of the all enveloping apathy I feel. I don't even think I have dysphoria, since nothing about my body actually bothers me nor feels wrong. It simply is, and I feel nothing because of it

>>40927035
Nta, but why would you not give it a try? You're not even really giving yourself the chance. Your assumption that there is not much of a point for you might be true, but it also might be not, and isn't that enough of a reason to try?

>>40926826
It seems like there's a chance you might be some type of trans, even if it isn't necessarily binary. You saying your ideal self would be an androgynous woman points to that as I don't think many cis men would think that way. Do you think you might be nonbinary? Does imagining yourself as the ideal body also give you feelings like body horror? I think it's normal to feel a disconnect when imagining a body different than yours as you since you're used to having a mental image related to your current body, but if it's more like a sense of wrongness, then that could be something else. Something to keep in mind is there are ways of avoiding breasts or getting rid of them if you decide you don't want them. You also don't have to change anything about presentation you don't want to.

>>40926757
>its like my soul is rejecting itself, like a failed organ transplant
This is actually such an appropriate metaphor.
I really feel like I'm compulsively denying myself to be the man I was supposed to be, yet I also have not interest in even trying to change that. There is barely a difference between a corpse and myself

>>40927191
>Do you think you might be nonbinary?
I might be, but label are basically useless to me, especially nonbinary. It would definitely fit me in some ways, but that doesn't mean calling myself nonbinary will give me any clarity on what I desire and how I should proceed.

>Does imagining yourself as the ideal body also give you feelings like body horror?
Yes. Even if I imagine my ideal body, it still feels fundamentally wrong. I don't think I can bear the weight of having a body I would actually feel like I should care about. And I also think it would still not feel like my own body.

>if it's more like a sense of wrongness, then that could be something else
There is both a disconnect and a sense of wrongness, even if I wish there was none. I still don't know how to properly articulate this "sense of wrongness", except just saying that I'm filled with a profound anxiety and dread at the mere thought of being anything but the cis man I am right now.

>Something to keep in mind is there are ways of avoiding breasts or getting rid of them if you decide you don't want them
Breasts are definitely one of the main reasons why I'm so anxious of hrt. Preferably, I would have no issues with having them, but they're the reason why I've stopped being on hrt for the first time. I'm extremely afraid of regretting it later on, and even if surgery is an option, it's not a cheap one, nor one I really want to undergo. Other options of avoiding breast growth, like serms, are basically useless though.

>>40926571
What are you implying?

>>40927839
I'm calling you a FUCKING TRANNY, you stupid tranny

>>40927871
How am I a tranny if I feel worse at the thought of being another gender?

>>40924183
this sounds like gender dysphoria with a LOT of extra steps

>>40927905
this lol

>>40927905
If there are so many extra steps, wouldn't it be less likely to be gender dysphoria as per Occam's Razor?

>>40927967
i think its like an equation written with a lot of extra terms that just simplifies down into its true form

>>40927980
If I were gender dysphoric, shouldn't my sexually dimorphic features make me feel distress, if not even feel explicitly wrong?
They don't. I can look in the mirror just fine

>>40928002
Maybe you're dissociating?

>>40928472
Don't think so? I recognize myself in the mirror.
Admittedly, my face and body feel very arbitrary to me, like something I just happen to have rather than something I am

bump

>>40928519
This does sound like dissociation, or at least some pretty strong detachment

>>40924431
that's not what i mean by "ontologically prior to any categories".
>"if I look ontologically at myself as an individual, I only ever see a male individual"
>" I definitely act like a man, I think like a man, I feel like a man, everything about me is male."
in these sentences, you're explicitly and solely describing yourself in reference to the categories of "man" and "male". when i say " think of yourself as an individual, ontologically prior to any categories", i mean that you should try to describe yourself, or to think through what you like and what you want, without referencing or comparing yourself to the categories "man", "woman", "male", "female", etc. for example, you can try taking the sentences you wrote above — "i act like a man, i think like a man, i feel like a man" —removing the "like a man" part, and completing them without using those categories, instead referencing specific qualities of yourself.

>"what if nothing I've ever done was able to make me joyful and make me feel like I am myself? I have very put in a ton of effort when it comes to being a man, having had a healthy social life with plenty of friends, a gf, a well trained body, etc, and nothing of it ever felt tangible?"
there's nothing that makes you feel joy? no type of music you love? no hobby you feel drawn to engage in because it lights you up?
i notice that here, again, you're putting yourself in reference to the concept of "being a man", and referencing qualities meant to constitute "being a man" (having a gf and a well-trained body). but again, try thinking of yourself outside the concept of having to "being a man".

(1/2)

>>40929380
(2/2)

>>40924431
if everything you do feels like playing a character, what happens if you stop playing the character? what might you be drawn to? you may not have the answer to that right now, but it's worth exploring.

>I feel incapable of wanting. Everything feels disingenuous, like a farce, because it feels like I lack a self
this is exactly how i felt before i did a ton of self-exploration prior to transitioning — the "it feels like i lack a self" is incredibly resonant to me. you should really do that self-exploration. throw yourself into things with an open mind: new hobbies, new styles of art or music, new styles of clothing or hair, new cultural scenes and social spaces. i'm not advising this as specifically a "trans-questioning" or "gender" thing, it just sounds like you're in a similar place to where i was several years ago, when i had just felt like i had to "be a man" all my life and ended up realizing i had no independent sense of self. it took self-exploration to discover that, in fact, i did have a sense of self to be found. it just took some excavation and exploration, and it took thinking of myself as an individual prior to any categories (like "man"/"woman").

>>40924684
this anon is absolutely correct also

>>40926558
would it help you to think about it in terms of particular qualities rather than the general categories of "man" & "woman"? eg. soft skin vs. tough skin, women's clothing vs. men's clothing, breasts vs. flat chest, body hair vs. less/no body hair?

>>40926826
>"My current answer would be: androgynous tall woman with a toned body"
you should reflect on the significance of this, anon. fwiw i said the same thing, years ago...

>>40929380
>in these sentences, you're explicitly and solely describing yourself in reference to the categories of "man" and "male".
This was mostly done with the intent of emphasizing how being a "man" feels like an immutable part of me I never got to choose, just like my eye color. It's basically impossible for me to think of myself as anything but, since it's been something that's been reinforced since my birth, and especially because I loved being a boy as a child. These feelings and thought appeared out of the blue right when I turned 20.

>instead referencing specific qualities of yourself
I am aware of my own qualities and characteristics, but all of them simply feel much more arbitrary and mutable than the fact that I perceive myself as a man. This probably sounds stupid, but what does it help me to know I am for example, gentle, if I also know that I am gentle in ways I've only ever seen men be, or more accurately not gentle the way a woman would be?

>there's nothing that makes you feel joy?
There is, but it's very sparse and fleeting. There are plenty of things I personally love and am able to appreciate, but most of the time, I either feel nothing or some fleeting satisfaction.
I have periods where I'm able to simply enjoying something for what it is, and other periods where nothing brings me any joy at all, only ever managing to be a quick distraction from the gnawing emptiness that's always eating me from the inside.

>referencing qualities meant to constitute "being a man" (having a gf and a well-trained body)
I referenced these to highlight the fact that I've put in a lot of effort in trying to be happy as a man. I definitely felt some pride in able to reach the goals I set for myself, but I never actually cared about the goals themselves. They were all superficial means to an end to me.

>>40929481
>what happens if you stop playing the character?
Nothing. The play will continue with one less prop on stage.

>what might you be drawn to? you may not have the answer to that right now, but it's worth exploring.
I've really tried to figure out an answer to this, and it's demoralizing to end up empty handed again and again and again, but I have no other choice but to persist.

>throw yourself into things with an open mind: new hobbies, new styles of art or music, new styles of clothing or hair, new cultural scenes and social spaces
Easier said than done, but I'll try. Most of the time I feel too crippled and disgusted by myself to even be able to do the most minute and boring tasks, not to mention trying to actually meaningfully engage with something and derive meaning out of it.

>would it help you to think about it in terms of particular qualities rather than the general categories of "man" & "woman"? eg. soft skin vs. tough skin, women's clothing vs. men's clothing, breasts vs. flat chest, body hair vs. less/no body hair?
I guess it would. That's how I came the conclusion that my "ideal self" would be a androgynous tall woman with a toned body. No part of me desire to be specifically that, but much rather, I desire the attributes which in turn paint the big picture.
Something that's not really helping my confusion, is the fact that I don't feel dysphoric about the opposite options though. They just don't feel preferable, which only leads me to think that this is all just vanity on my part.

>you should reflect on the significance of this, anon. fwiw i said the same thing, years ago...
I'm aware of it's significance, at least rationally. That's why I've been thinking about this basically non-stop for about a year, and also made this thread. It's significance still eludes me on an emotional level though.
It genuinely feels like I'm just a depressed cis man that will one day just get over this and forget it all, and a part of me really fears this outcome

>>40929380
>>40929481
Thanks a lot for the long and thorough replies. I really appreciate any advice, and this definitely exceeded my expectations.
If it's all right with you, I'd really like to ask some questions about your journey of self discovery. I'll drop my disc and just add me if you don't mind chatting with a rando for a bit more. It's " .reeddeer. " (with the periods)

>>40922371 (OP)
Maybe go touch some grass instead of spending your time here

>>40922408
>especially a middle aged one
you might be afraid of aging

>>40922371 (OP)

You have autism OP. You should take HRT

>>40932062
Will hrt cure my autism?

You sound like an enby with a dissociative disorder I'll be entirely honest with you

>>40932223
Any way to find out whether I really have a dissociative disorder before going to a psychiatrist?
I plan on getting one, but that's not an option in the moment, and it'll take some time to get an appointment

>>40924242
Maybe you have schizoid personality disorder.
Also why not just be “non binary” besides the fact that people meme on it being a fake gender, it sounds like you are neither a man nor a woman since both cause dysphoria in some way or another

>>40932288
This genuinely sounds like a cursed existence. There's a good chance I'm a schizoid, but I will doubt it until I can confidently assert it's not just depression and anxiety.
Being nonbinary with dysphoria for both binary ends also sounds pretty horrible, since I'll feel wrong one way or the other. At this point I'd prefer to be binary just for my transition to be more straightforward

>>40932332
Your existence won't be any less cursed if you spend your time on this board instead of actually putting in the effort and figuring yourself out

>>40932223
I honestly relate a lot to what OP is saying and I have had depersonalisation for years. I was having a constant out of body experience for a couple of years in my teens. Ive always felt subhuman and abnormal. Gender is a way to express some part of myself but there is no real core sense of self for me, im not a man or a woman because I dont feel human, its all just actions and perceptions in the moment that pass. Maybe OP is like that. Transitioning wont help because your core identity is gone.

>>40933700
I'm the op, and I feel exactly the same way you've described, especially the subhuman and abnormal part.
It would be a lie to claim that I have no self, but this self feel completely arbitrary. More like a product of circumstance, rather than something I can properly call mine.

>Transitioning wont help because your core identity is gone.
That's pretty discouraging, but not something I didn't expect. Did you transition yourself, only to find out that it didn't actually fix the dissociation at all? If so, have you tried anything else in order to feel more real as a person?
I feel stuck in purgatory living like this.

>>40922371 (OP)
Touch grass until you stop fantasizing about being a woman.

>>40933841
Doesn't really work when touching grass only makes me want to be one more. I see significantly more women out and about than in my own room

>>40933820
I did try to transition and it did help somewhat, but I think what helped more is it got me out of the house and I felt able to act in a more feminine way and people approved of that and then I felt like I had some kind of identity I was safe in. But then I detransed because I found it hard to actually get a strong grip on it. I genuinely have no idea who I am, theres just things that happen to me that sometimes feel ok and most things just feel really bad.

Also yeah, im exaggerating when I say theres no core identity. There is I guess but I dont really feel like myself very often and accessing my real identity after constantly masking or being disassociated all the time is very hard

>>40933857
Touch grass, and stop jerking off for about a month.

>>40933885
Did transitioning feel like you were just upholding another facade in hopes that it will one day stick and feel genuine? Cause if so, I understand why detransing would feel reasonable, and that's also my biggest worry when it comes to transitioning. Do you regret transition/detransition though?
I feel the same in having no idea who I really am, and everything that ever happens in my life just feels so transient, devoid of meaning and weight.

>There is I guess but I dont really feel like myself very often and accessing my real identity after constantly masking or being disassociated all the time is very hard
This is exactly how I feel about my "self" as well. It really feels like I have no stake in my own life, and that it's just something that just so happens to be mine apparently.

>>40932203
No.

>>40933988
At first I regretted transition because of the boobs, feeling like im not fully male or female anymore kind of made my identity issues worse, now I have even less in common with normal people and it shows physically. But then I regretted detransing because the problem isnt going away and i feel like im backsliding. I did like transitioning in ways that really felt fulfilling, but it was sparse and yeah, constantly fighting this feeling of being a fraud and an imposter and making it up as i go along so that one day i will feel okay and not just for brief moments once in a while. Its horrible but I guess ive felt like an imposter my whole life, so its not like it matters either way I suppose

>>40923001
you literally just have severe mental issues, start there and don't worry about wearing men or womens underwear so much

>>40934005
From what you've described, it really sounds like you regret detransing more than transitioning in the first place. If both action and inaction don't change a thing when it comes to feeling like an impostor, why wouldn't you pick the one that's more fun in the moment.
Maybe we are too far gone to ever feel like an actual people, but at the very least we can try and make our existence as entertaining as possible in the meanwhile.
I wouldn't normally say this, but today I'm in a pretty optimistic mood weirdly enough

Have you considered retransing, or are you steadfast in your decision?

>>40934201
Shit, I meant to reply to >>40934065

>>40934169
That's a given. Now I'm just wondering which mental issues make me want to be a woman, despite it feeling wrong

>>40935214
The mental issue is called dysphoria you dumb tranny. Repping really does lead to brain damage