Thread 24646111

Unrefuted.

>>24646111 (OP)
Dawkins is a complete philosophical zombie. I don't know why anyone gives him the time of day when his claim to fame is he wrote a book that essentially says "patters are things that are likely to repeat" and his stubborn inability to engage with allegories.

>>24646111 (OP)
Dawkins is a complete philosophical zombie. I don't know why anyone gives him the time of day when his claim to fame is he wrote a book that essentially says "patterns are things that are likely to repeat" and his stubborn inability to engage with allegories.

>>24646155
>patters are things that are likely to repeat
anyone that's got a little puppy with little paws and wooden floors knows that patters do repeat throughout the day and night fr

>>24646162
The case for theism was just *that* bad back in 2006

>>24646111 (OP)
>Refutes himself

He is nothing and wont be remembered a year after his death. Always stuck in the fatties shadow, must suck.

>>24646111 (OP)
not true

>>24646168
Is it better today?
>dude lmao what if there are beth2 people?

>snakes don't talk therefore allegory and religion is silly
>things outside of science's purview of inquiry don't matter
>how does morals and ethics help us build rocket ships?
Every single debate and interview.

>>24646236
if theists keep repeating their stupid points people like dawkins will have to keep refuting them

>>24646236
With the more rational views of God he's almost not even there.

>>24646367
I know this is bait but it rankles my ass there are so many philosophical zombies exactly like this shambling around

i seen some shit

read some shit too

joined the dots

ignored fashionable opinions

heard the schizos out

the cranks, crackpots, truthers, tinfoil hatters, snake oil salesmen

(the strange litany of insults the establishment hurls at truth seekers)

and turns out they were right

God exists

but you don't need to believe me

you can go to hell

and you literally will

literal hell

>>24646111 (OP)
>actually god is not real because [bogus tautologies that fall apart scrutiny]

>>24647236
*fall apart under scrutiny

>>24647236
Actually god is real because [bogus tautologies that fall apart under scrutiny]

>>24647541
Faith has nothing to with reason and the best thing to do is for the two sides to stop engaging each other. Both are built off resentment of the other.

He calls himself a "cultural Christian" now.

>DUDE IT'S A METAPHOR FOR MORAL TRUTHS
Cool, are you a post-modernist? Do you support the fundamental "truth" of various other religions for the function it serves for their believers? Doubt it!

I'm shitting myself. Wait till he sees the truth.

>>24646111 (OP)
is this the /lit/ gun thread?
some good reading material

>>24648538
I remember this chart being posted before lol

>>24648406
>Do you support the fundamental "truth" of various other religions for the function it serves for their believers? Doubt it!
Is this supposed to be in support of Dawkins?

>>24648406
>haha truth is subjective because other people don't agree with you gotchya!
Are you trying to be retarded on purpose?

>>24646111 (OP)
Okay but to this day that tomb is empty and Jesus is at the right hand of The Power. To this day.

>>24649010
Bruh on god frfr

>>24646111 (OP)
> well but did Christ physically rise from the dead?

You moronic simpleton. Must everything be based on atoms? Where does that get you? Will you ever have the instruments to understand the beginning of time? To understand the quantum world? To understand what the fuck does an “infinite universe” means?

We are clearly living in a sort of simulation, not the sort that you think.

Just like we aren’t ai made out of metal but rather ai made out of biological elements, this simulation isn’t built by a “physical computer” either.

Christ was divinely touched, managed to have access to metadata and peek at the code behind all of this and yet you ask stupid things like “but did it physically happen?”

With questions like these you might as well stay grounded into the physical world of atoms and lab equipment and stop talking with those that seek inter-dimensional meaning since we are not using the same tools to explore the universe

>>24646162
>philosophical zombie
>Cogently states all of his views which have to this day never been refuted

Lol

>>24650313
Unfathomably based.

>>24650111
Meds

>fedoras are titans of intellect
>[but expect you to be impressed they don't believe in Santa]
>fedoras stand for free-thinking
>[but demand you adhere to Scientism]
>fedoras are champions of reason
>[but have strong opinions about things of which they're uneducated]
>fedoras are anti-dogmatic
>[but insist you interpret scripture only according to the reductive ideas they parrot]
Atheism is an intelligence LARP that retards indoctrinate themselves into. Being a fedora tipper is ridiculously easy; their main weak point is their unearned pride and if you poke at their (entirely self-perceived) intelligence they become reactive and break down. Reminder that the legacy of Nu Atheism is pic-related: homosexual rape/cuck furry fetish cartoons.

>>24648369
apparently because of the increase of muslim culture in the UK, which is very interesting

>>24650313
Common Dawkins' W

>>24650455
You've never had one in your life

>>24650126
He's never said anything cogent.

>>24650567
the most logical theist rebuttal

>>24646111 (OP)
Nobody has ever been cucked as hard as Dawkins. He basically formed the vanguard of the Moslem takeover of his country and now he hides under the bed like a bitch stuttering and blubbering about muh culture, muh culture!

Murdered his own culture. Got nothing for it. Will die a cuck, knowing that the only thing he accomplished in his life was attacking a pacifist religion to make way for one that throws faggots off of rooftops.

Great work dicky boy.

>>24650956
The nu atheists always attacked Islam the most.

>>24650956
Have you ever listened to him speak about Islam even once

My favorite is that one tiny scene where he meets a buddhist monk and all he can sya is "Me want pleasure. Doesn't everyone want pleasure? Your belief is silly."
And then the monk starts treating him as if he were a child.
>>24650456
The problem is that this doesn't work on christians because all of what Sade is doing amounts to thinking that human beings can or should be able to comprehend the divine. This impulse itself being another form of mindless craving.

>>24648369
he has always said this and it doesn't mean what you think it means, xitter zoomie.

>>24648406
what did he mean by this

>>24650313
>where are the emperors clothes?
woah he really is an annoying bastard
i bet he has 0 friends and his wife pegs him every night

>>24650956
Dawkins got his balls cut off after the twitter tranny fiasco. Now he's a punching bag for media jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=505UazMNgLg&t=0h31m30s

>>24646111 (OP)
Retard

Atheism is more christian than christianity. The reason is that Christianity says that god is the truth and the light. Atheism actually is the only force that accepts truth and light in the clearest sense. The bible is obfuscation. So an atheist is more spiritually christian than a christian.

>>24650313
how is this guy the champion of the new atheists

>>24646236
It's rather convenient that the Earth being created in 7 days, talking snakes, a flood that covered the entire world and a non-existent Exodus from Egypt were all just metaphors but the dead Jew on the stick taking all of the sins of the world unto himself and then magically rising from the dead are supposed to be 100% literal.

You hate him because:

1) he’s an atheist
2) HE HATES TRANNIES LOL

And I say this because trannies joined the cancer atheist movement because they thought the science was “on their side” when it just wasn’t. It never was. Pic related (lmaooo).

Anyway… RICHARD DAWKINS HAS SPOKEN:

— “This ridiculous article (shame on the once-great Scientific American) ignorantly misunderstands the nature of the sex binary. … Sex is not defined by chromosomes, nor by anatomy, nor by psychology or sociology, nor by personal inclination, nor by “assignment at birth”, but by gamete size. It happens to be embryologically DETERMINED by chromosomes in mammals. … But it is universally DEFINED by the binary distinction between sperms and eggs. You may argue about “gender” if you wish (biologists have better things to do) but sex is a true binary, one of rather few in biology.”

Article in question: https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

>>24655363
The Earth was created in 6 days, not 7.

>>24655408
Oh. That makes much more sense then.

>>24655363
>didn't notice there were 2 different creation stories one after the other
>filtered by metaphoric and metonymic modes of language
>"DURR! DER NO SUCH THING AS TALKING SNEKS!"
Hopelessly filtered, lol. Retards like you don't belong on a literature board.

>>24655719
Which parts are metaphorical? All of it, or just the parts that are ludicrous and preposterous on their very face? Was it metaphorical when Moses parted the Red Sea, or was that real magic?

>>24655719
What criteria do you use to distinguish between literal divine truth and metaphor?
This isn't even an atheism question, it's a John 6 question.

>>24655827
>>24655855
>didn't even know there are 2 different creation stories one after the other
This is a teachable moment, anon(s). The strength of your opinion should match your knowledge and parroting fedora tippers' greatest hits as if you've figured something out for yourself is a good way to end up embarrassing yourself.

>>24656046
>didn't answer
Yes, I did know there were 2 Geneses. Now what? Should I quote cardinal Bellarmine regarding interpretation?

>>24655378
I feel bad for this person.

>>24656046
>This is a teachable moment, anon(s). The strength of your opinion should match your knowledge
see
>>24655719
>Retards like you don't belong on a literature board.

>>24656189
>pseud is seething I ignored his disingenuous question
Lol.
>>24656401
You definitely don't belong on a literature board. Here: >>>/lgbt/

>>24650111
Based schizo.

>>24655719
If you understand something well then you can explain it simply. Did a jewish superhero save the world or not?

>>24655378
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

>>24656344
Why? They’re stupid. They went out of their way to ignore how biology works. They have no one but themselves to blame. You can pity them, but don’t feel too bad for them, please. These are the same people who go to pro Palestine parades.

>>24650956
Cucked like a bitch indeed. Diligent soldier for anti-civilizational forces, now has the audacity to pretend that he didn't spend his entire life carrying water for them.

>>24656957
>You can pity them, but don’t feel too bad for them, please.
What's the difference

nothing against this guy but with all the reading material options out there is there any point at all in reading this guy

I don’t hate atheists but I do hate it when they pretend that the things that led up to religion aren’t still around today—even in science. What led up to religion isn’t at all claimed by religion.

>>24651172
>You can't comprehend divinity
>Let me tell you all about it though, also give me money and submission through dogmatic belief
This contradiction reveals the pseud. Fuck the Abrahamic nonsense you guys spout, just a bunch of kiddie diddlers the lot of you. Great plan of your supreme deity sucks. Get a better one.

>>24650313
kino

The Book of Mormon is from Ethiopia

>>24656940
>didn't know there were 2 different creation stories that contradict one another placed back to back in Genesis
>too stupid to understand that means language/narrative isn't being used in the same way as a text book
>resorts to trying to be edgy by comparing religion to Marvel movies he watches
Lol, fag.

>>24652028
He didn't get the book because he too is an old cockroach that no one likes. That's just normal to him.

>>24655378
>And I say this because trannies joined the cancer atheist movement because they thought the science was “on their side” when it just wasn’t.
The science is anti-life and nihilistic, just like trannies.

>>24657302
He didn't write any of that. Also contemplating the divine isn't limited to abrahamists you tranny.

Cuck.

>>24646162
>Dawkins is a complete philosophical zombie.
He is logically consistent for the most part, he's just a coward. It's why he's extremely submissive towards Islam.

>>24658832
He constantly whines about Muslims in Britain. If anything he's way too easy on the Christcucks.

>>24658838
Not true, especially in the last few years. He's mentally gone and extremely submissive lately.

>>24658764
>The science is anti-life and nihilistic
Only if you interpret it that way. Shape it that way.

>>24658839
tbf he is like 200 years old

>>24658840
>Only if you interpret it that way.
All science is implicitly built with the assumption that naturalism is correct.

>>24650126
>>Cogently states all of his views
99% of his views are just stupid angloid boomerisms.

>>24660217
>nature is nature
Yes…?

>>24650313
Now post the one where he becomes a cultural christian

>>24660405
>nature is everything
Hylic fag.

>>24660632
neckbeard gnostic

>>24650907
Faith isn't about logic, numbnuts. Its a feeling. Read William James.

>>24650390
Kino

It should be remembered that Dawkins emerged on religion criticizing creationism from the 1960s. I do not know if most users are old enough to remember it, but the 2000s were a somewhat insane period in which people debated whether it was legitimate to teach the thesis that the Earth had been created 6,000 years ago as an alternative to the theory of evolution (Flying Spaghetti Monster and the like were hot online).

In retrospect, it was a retard issue. The Kansas decision that made all atheists seethe simply reminded that evolution does not rule out a divine design and that evolution is a theory rather than fact, which seems reasonable to me. Besides, young Earth creationism is also a fringe thesis to take issue with, supported only by evangelical crackpots in America's nowhere. Taking Genesis literally is not the position of any major church.

Dawkins, at bottom, was mostly fighting straw men and over time I have not read anything from him that was convincing with regard to the more regular churches.

>>24662292
In one breath, you admit people were pushing wild religious theories onto public schools while castigating the reality of evolution as "just a theory", but then announce Dawkins was only fighting straw men???

Dawkins accepted debates from all spheres and calmly elucidated the flawed reasoning of religious thinking.

>>24662352
Reading skill issues? I said that the theory attributed to the authorities was not at all in line with the conclusions of the commission nor with the testimonies of the panel. When I was a teenager, I was (probablys purposely) left under the impression that Southern schools were about to teach that Earth was 6,000 alongside evolution. The very point that was made by Kansas (without compulsion) was that evolution is not in contradiction with the idea of a great architect. So much for wild theories?

>>24662352
Besides, I don't get what accepting debates has to do with anything, did you at least read his books? He provided most convincing argument against the fringe theories which in the end concern very few people and which were blew out of proportion at the time. He made some points (which had been made for long time by the way) but did not establish the absence of God as he sought.

For example treating divinity, in spite of a better word, as increasing improbability rather than reducing it, doesn't infer that God doesn't exist (it's basically Ockham, which is not a logical proof), doesn't contradict most churches that do postulate an all-knowing designer as complex as the phenomena they created, and switch the issue only a bit further; rather than competing with evolution, divinity just is moved up as the very primum movens of evolution.

I also take issues with his moral critique, which fails to spot invariant across times and cultures that make a case for a functioning natural law theory. He can try to explain them through evolution (which is quite a stretch) but even so, that just add burden to the argument above. The worst argument he came up with though is the attempt to paint religion as a socially harmful force, which is weak in so many aspects.

>>24662369
I have seen different numbers of how many percent of Americans don't accept evolution at all over the years but it's always quite high.
I just ran a quick google search "How many % of Americans don't accept evolution" and for instance the Pew Research Institute says that 18% of Americans think humans have always existed in their current form. Earlier I think I have seen numbers as high as 34%.

The view that God somehow started evolution, or somehow guided it is relatively reasonable or at least it can't be easily disproven but too many people have much less reasonable views.

>>24662480
Perhaps I underestimated how dumb people are.

>>24662292
>Dawkins, at bottom, was mostly fighting straw men and over time I have not read anything from him that was convincing with regard to the more regular churches.
His debate with the-then Archbishop Rowan Williams was actually very constructive

>>24646111 (OP)
>I have a degree in zoology
>You should take my word on the fundamentals of theology
No thanks

>>24663138
I insist on *mostly*, he's very competent and I'm sure he had cordial and worthwhile exchanges. I have watched a few debates an eternity ago and draw more from what he wrote. I had my fedora tipping phase when I was a teen.

>>24660632
Nature is reality and reality is nature. Physics deals with what is real. Natural philosophy.

>>24646168
>If it's not presented to me on my "feed" it doesn't exist.

Why must fedorafags shit up this board

>>24663308
Theists are far worse. The board rules state this is not the place for religious debates, yet at this very moment there are multiple threads dedicated to Christianity. If the theists could actually follow the rules, there would be no need to counter them, but here we are.

(Dawkins at least wrote actual impactful books like The Selfish Gene which is a highly interesting and influential book).

>>24660632
He's right you know

>>24663308
Theists are the real fedoras, and always have been.

>>24663488
I really don't think that's true desu ever since I came here it seems like a large amount of the energy went towards religious bait threads. I only started posting because I was unsatisfied with the answers people were giving and it all felt too topical. I wanted to use the sense description and point of view of literature instead of topical ideas. I don't see any other Christian being aggressive or even really active besides myself. You're straight up just seething at me lol and I don't even make threads I just come to conclusions that feel too totalizing for people and make them feel like they have to rebel instead of engage. This isn't a 'literary' board but a topical one

>>24663308
Reminder that all theists are tourists, and this was an atheist place before the election (you know which one)

>>24664012
That's because you're a liar. Everywhere on this site you can find Christians being the most insufferable idiots, bringing up their fairy tales in every conversation, baiting everyone else about their dumb beliefs, and like you, lying about their behavior when confronted, and refuted. "Oh actually I'm just defending myself" is what every christcuck says right after getting BTFO because they were wrong.

>>24664035
Rajeesh, it's time to calm down. You've already accepted I'm right on numerous occasions. The more you react to me the more you're showing how truly totalizing my conclusions have been

>>24664046
>Immediate ad hominems
See what I mean? Weren't you just the reasonable guy defending against bad arguments just a second ago? If you genuinely believe "if you react to me then I'm right", then yeah, I'm not surprised why you have a hard time wrapping your head around why people don't believe in your ancient middle eastern fairy tales.

Anyone who applies higher logic, or higher levels of thinking, is a “fedora fag”, you realize.

I don’t jive with theists or atheists, for the simple reason that they’re both stuck on their respective sides of the same damn coin.

The Christian God could exist and it still won’t prevent a physicist from seeing Him as “just some sufficiently godlike higher dimensional being”.

You can even apply the atheist mindset into a fantasy. Gods and demons are just aliens to the hard greyblob atheist. Most atheists struggle seeing the magic in life.

>>24664056
This. What is a god is a point of view. It’s just something you worship. It could be a fucking tree.

>>24664053
No, YOU are the one being insulting because you don't engage. You try to dismiss ideas that make you uncomfortable using memetics when I'm just sharing my own perspectives that I feel like aren't being brought up, especially when it comes to literature

>>24664056
>Most atheists struggle seeing the magic in life.
Go fuck yourself

>>24664065
My guy, you literally assumed I was someone else, didn't address anything I said, then ran away from the argument to Huff your own farts because, surprise, when you say retarded shit, people respond.

>>24664077
Ruh roh. Looks like the fedora fag got called out. If you don’t consider nature or science to be magic, or divine, then you don’t actually love or appreciate nature do you? Gravity is borderline magic and the universe is unfathomably mysterious, wondrous, and terrifying.

I still don't get how you square being a Christian and hanging out on 4chan
it's just dumb

>>24664087
They're the same as the rabid radical leftists. They don't give a shit about their beliefs, they know they don't make sense, but they want an excuse to look down their nose at others and force them to comply.

A noticeable chunk of atheists are basically gnostics. They hate nature or something. “No it’s not magic you idiot”.

>>24664083
Magic is when Pharos's high priests turns their rods into snakes
Gravity is not magic

>>24664090
What do you think the word "magic" means?
Nature is literally not magic

>>24664090
Atheists want to upload themselves to computers the same way gnostics seek to escape real life. Escapist scumbags kek.
>>24664093
Um no. What is magic or a miracle or science is just a point of view. We barely understand gravity the way persons in the past barely understood the mysteries of their religion (all religion has mysticism to it).

>>24664090
Theists show how dumb they are with images like this. Go walk into that forest naked, and survive for three days then tell me just how beautiful that forest is. And of course your monkey brain thinks a forest with a clear lake is beautiful, it represents abundant resources. Talking about some "magic in life" as if you're a goddamn child is pathetic. If you're an adult, and have been paying attention to the world around you, thinking there's some inherent magic in life is just a massive cope that was likely abused by the betters of your ancestors to get them to work to death in a field somewhere.

>>24664101
Magic as in exposure logic. The ancients looking to the night sky and considering the stars to be the gods. That’s no different from stage magic logic. Existence is both stage and magician.

If things like mystery, wonder and enchantment make magic, or religion, then ignorance is the greatest magic of all. Ignorance is a form of art.

We’re mostly blind to the universe as is.

>>24664105
Sounds like you just suck at appreciating life. Sounds like you just suck at making the correct decisions in life. Many such cases.
>Talking about some "magic in life" as if you're a goddamn child is pathetic.
Who hurt you LOL.

>>24664102
Not having a complete understanding of gravity does not gravity is magic
I don't understand why you want to die on this retarded hill

>>24664112
>Not having a complete understanding of gravity does not gravity is magic
Lolok. Sure. What is magic to you buddy? Something that defies nature? That just means we don’t understand nature well enough. Bam. Stage magic logic.

>>24664090
Wow you really upset the shit stains

>>24664114
Something incomprehensible, impossible, which never happens again, and leaves no proof that stupid people believe in. Not that guy by the way.

>>24664105
>Go walk into that forest naked, and survive for three days then tell me just how beautiful that forest is.
Were you left alone in the woods as a child? That’s not how you enjoy the woods. Although some people do dance around naked in the forest, and can live off of the wilderness for months at a time. It depends on the person, their lifestyle.

>>24664102
The list of people who aren't escapists is basically nill. Religion is the ultimate escape with life after death.

>>24664121
>Something incomprehensible, impossible, which never happens again
What, like the Big Bang? You being born?

There is order even to chaos, though. What is chaotic and unfathomable to us means we’re just limited at assessing it.

>>24664111
It sounds like you just suck at having the mentality of anything other than a slave willing to accept whatever shit situation he's born into. You're on fucking 4chan buddy, if you appreciated life, or made correct decisions I would never be able to see or read a single one of your braindead opinions.
>Muh who hurt you
Your insane levels of stupidity have harmed my mind in ways I will never recover from.

>>24664130
It sounds like you just nature real life. That’s nice. You go be sad somewhere else. Or don’t. This website is probably perfect for you!

>>24664122
What does this have to do with the fact that being in that place without the protections that human ingenuity have granted you will leave you dead?
>>24664128
I like how you cut out "with no proof" because your examples immediately fall apart if you don't. People are born every day, we have evidence of the big bang, and no matter how much you beg, a dead carpenter isn't going to save you from shit, nor will he make you any less stupid.

>>24664121
If something happens then it can’t be impossible. The ‘supernatural’ is an oxymoron since it’s just another way of saying ‘I don’t understand it’. You can’t technically supersede nature/reality either. It’s just existence. There may be layers to existence we can surmount, but that’s still existence.

>>24664114
I already told you. Pharaoh's high priests turning rods into snakes, that's magic
Gravity is not

Do you need more examples? Do you not understand how people use the word?

>>24664133
Learn to read before discussing with people, what the fuck does nature real life mean? You're here too buddy, and remember, you're here forever. It sounds to me like you have no argument, and are desperately hoping to make me insecure in my life because that's what you are. I'm not surprised you believe in fairy tales when this is your position.

>>24664140
>People are born every day, we have evidence of the big bang
We can only speculate on what causes or was around before the Big Bang. We cannot determine consciousness. There are deeper nuances you’re not considering. Hm. And yes gravity is borderline magic. An alien UFO would be borderline magic, to us, not the alien.

>>24664148
>Pharaoh's high priests turning rods into snakes, that's magic
Nope. That’s just physics. If it happened, it’s physics. A priest might also be pretentious and argue “no it’s not magic it’s a miracle!”, even when there’s literally no distinction.

>>24664150
You already confirmed to me that you’re insecure lol. That you have to argue against life’s beauties at all.

>>24664090
This just seems like massive projection
You need to understand that people who disagree with you, genuinely don't hold to your view

>>24664144
Once again, note the "with no proof". Which is me saying it didn't fucking happen, and people are making things up. Something impossible that happens which cannot be questioned, leaves no evidence, and makes no sense is solely the domain of made up shit only idiots and children believe. If it was impossible to the viewers worldview and it happened, it would then leave evidence, would be comprehensible in at least some manner, allowing one to question, and then either replicate it, or some aspect of it which can definitively prove it exists. It would for sure not disappear and never appear again outside of that one time with no evidence and only the words of some idiot to back it up.

>>24664150
>I'm not surprised you believe in fairy tales when this is your position.
Modern day talk of UFOs is pretty much the modern day version of faeries stealing humans away to fantastical places.

>>24664151
Yet that speculation is based on evidence and calculation. While gravity for sure would be fucking magic to me if I never questioned anything, never tested anything, and never bothered to be educated, gravity is consistent, and UFOs are made up. Even if they were real, just the fact that they aren't magic to the alien means there's no such thing as magic whatsoever.

>>24664167
Sorry. If you don’t consider nature or science to be magical or divine then you don’t actually love or appreciate nature or science. Sorry.
>>24664172
Now you’re rambling. Are you just now learning that human culture is superficial and it repeats using different words for the same fucking thing? Yes, semantic warfare has been a thing since forever.

>>24664162
And you already confirmed to me that you're living a horrible life, suck dicks for money, eat ass, and put popsicles up your butt because of the way you argue.

>>24664177
Cool. That’s all borderline magic. Is it mysterious? Are we still poking at it? Does it bewilder? Does it enchant? Then it’s magic.

That feeling a biologist feels when they discover a new deep sea form of life? Confronting the mystery in the face? Beholding its beauty? That’s magic. Even if they don’t use the same word, or see the word the same way.

>>24664156
That's just not how the word magic is used in English language.

Besides, a miracle is when God does it, right? It's magic when the Egyptian priests do it.
It's really not that complicated.

None of this stuff is real, there's no fact of the matter. I just want you to stop re-defining words.

>>24664181
I'm not rambling, you just no longer have a response. Everything I wrote was as simplified as possible to stop you from doing what your kind is infamous for, and pretending like I was saying something I never did. Of course, like the liar you are, your next course of action was to pretend simple sentences children could understand are incomprehensible rambling because you've found yourself on the losing side of a very simple argument. Nothing I said has anything to do with semantics, and all to do with the fact that real things and phenomena are nothing like fairy tales, and that this world is very much observable and consistent.

>>24664184
I’m clearly winning this argument. If you have to act like this at all. :^)

>>24664192
>That's just not how the word magic is used in English language
Doesn’t matter. “It’s basically magic”, “it’s magic I ain’t gotta explain shit”, etc, are all common sayings. “Idk it’s magic”.

If you go by ‘supernatural’ as definition, then that still implies we don’t understand it well enough, because that’s all that the supernatural denotes to a physicist.

>>24664191
If your understanding of magic is "discovering you were wrong", then its no wonder your dumbass can't just cop the L and shut up.

>>24664192
>Besides, a miracle is when God does it, right? It's magic when the Egyptian priests do it.
Nope. The “wizards” of Egypt that Moses fought and confronted were just priests of their own respective deities. Moses was working for his deity. It was a matter of scale, not class. Most magicians in myth and history doubled as priests or other spiritual leaders. Moses was considered a wizard by both the Greeks and the Jews. Solomon was seen as a wizard king. The gift of magic in Ancient Greece was from the gods, usually Helios or Hecate.

High ceremonial magic, or theurgy, was essentially just successful divine working, or god working. Petitioning gods. Uniting with the Godhead. Etc.

>>24664202
Clearly you are unable to back down on this.

Okay, I concede. Gravity is magic.
What now? Did you have some kind of point?

>>24664202
You resorted to whatever behavior you're complaining about first.
>Inb4 I was just pretending to be stupid actually!
I hope you're being genuine for your sake, because being able to "fake" this kind of idiocy just means you're actually that dumb.

>>24664214
Why are you telling me this?

>>24664197
You have to understand that miracles and magic and science are all literally the same thing. Science was actually seen as a form of magic, or ‘magica naturalis’, during the Renaissance. Math, was seen as magic for thousands of years, all the way back to Pythagoras and his numerical cults, and all the way back up to Isaac Newton (dubbed ‘the last of the magicians’) and his obsession with sacred Jewish (Solomon’s temple) geometry.

>>24664220
To show you that you are ignorant, and wrong on the basic premises of your arguments. Nta btw, before you start pretending we're all the same people again.

>>24664220
Because you denied the ironies. Anyone who thinks that magic and miracles and science aren’t all the same are sadly just too autistic. They shove superficialities into neatly packaged, redundant little boxes.

Christianity, their masses, are quite indistinguishable from witchcraft. It’s all the same shit. They just use different words. Even the priests of the Catholic Church knew the irony and practiced literal fucking demonology and black magic behind closed doors. Exorcism stems from black magic, demonology, nigromancy (yes yes funny name), etc.

>>24646111 (OP)
He has a lot of regrets after the UK became Pakistan.

>>24664216
>What now? Did you have some kind of point?
My point is magic is a description, not a definition, and getting mad at someone for describing physics, or chemistry, or biology, as magic, means you the mysteries and wonders of nature/science.

>>24664224
I miracle is when God does it. Do you even disagree?

>>24664223
And I'm telling you that what dumbasses with educations worth less than your average highschooler think about something is irrelevant to its actual function. Idiots in the past can run around using Astrology to chart births and personalities, as well as say that x number means x, but that doesn't change the fact that they don't, and never will mean whatever stupid shit they think it means. There's a reason none of those guys ever used their methods to create anything a percentage as complex as the computers we're using to have this discussion, and that's because they had degenerated ideas of what they were experiencing.

>>24664237
I don't think science, magic and miracles are the same. So I do not have this problem.

>>24664247
Witchcraft and sorcery have been described as ‘black miracles’ when they stem from demons and the Decil. Most magic around the globe makes use of the gods, or spirits, or otherworldly beings. Some religions, like Christianity, use word warfare to act better. “No it’s better!”.

“No, it’s a miracle!” is a variant of “it’s not magic, it’s MagicK!”.

>>24664257
Then you deny the magic/miracles that science has wrought. We’re living in a literal Atlantean-esque period. Right now. You’re just too used to it all. You take it for granted.

Even Tolkien knew this. His elves don’t see themselves as magical beings. They don’t believe in (elven) magic. The black machines of Mordor are seen as black magic. Gandalf isn’t a wizard back home in Valinor, and is a “wizard” relative to what he can do, compared to lessers. Everything to Eru (God) is just Song/Music, the same way Einstein saw physics as ‘the music of the spheres’, a cosmic symphony which plays with or without your notice.

Magic is just a point of view. “Magic”.

What's the man in this picture doing?
>Magic.


This is the point where your primary school teacher calls your parents about getting you into the class for special children

>>24664251
Cope, then. Many of history’s most brilliant persons were “wizards”, including Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Paracelsus, Roger Bacon, Albertus Magnus, Archimedes, Pythagoras, Plato, etc, and they believed some downright mad shit, and practiced magic and mysticism.

>>24664260
I understand this
I also understand that if I called Jesus resurrection "magic", Christians would (rightly) correct me and tell me to use the word miracle instead

This is not hard

>>24664279
How is science not bloody magic?

All scientists are sorcerers to some shade. That's why they seek theories of everything to unify different layers of reality. It's as if scientists believe as-above-so-below and as-within-so-without. Scientists believe in summoning entities that transcend the body like AI and wish to become transhuman themselves. Don't forget scientists' quest for immortality either…and think about their obsession with seeking patterns, their inclination to turn patterns into geometrical representations, and their wish for theory to be beautiful! Scientists might as well wear robes and dissect bodies on altars- no, wait, they're already doing that… Christ, they might as well sacrifice materials in rituals to gain a material back with transcended properties. Oh wait…

You don’t think it’s magic because it takes a different shape. You’re blind to the occult infrastructure all around. Even the word for pharmacy comes from an old Greek word for sorcery. Pharmakeia.

>>24664284
Yep. The church weaponized words to become powerful. To restrict. Despite it, you had bishops who knew the irony, and practiced legitimate black magic using the power/authority of God in secret.

They were hypocrites.

>>24664281
Do you think you're perhaps equivocating on the word?
Or do you think Roger Bacon did magic in the same sense of the word, as the priests in the Prince of Egypt movie I posted a picture from

>>24664279
Well, to be fair, science is in essence the magic of the future. It came of it.

The Greeks original word for magic meant superstitious woo woo bulls bullshit, but they eventually replaced it with a meaning that expanded to include astronomy, astrology, alchemy, and other forms of esoteric knowledge, or higher learning. Even the devices and machines of the Greeks were seen as “the stuff of wizardry”, like the Antikythera mechanism, or whatever Archimedes did. Even Roger Bacon who came much later was seen as a wizard for his brazen metallurgy. The fields of geometry and chemistry and metallurgy were seen as magical fields for their lesser known ways and trade.

>>24664298
Magic is often an air, or an aura. Often the capital-w wizard won’t see themselves as a capital-w wizard, not unless they go out of their way to don the pointy hat and play the part. It’s much like Gandalf, who is essentially an alien that’s cosplaying as a wizard. He’s the equivalent of a sufficiently capable stage magician, or sage.

Roger Bacon didn’t actually believe in magic by the way. He believed in the power of psychology. He did believe in the miracles of God, so he still had a bit of irony to him.

He was similar to Pliny (I forget which Pliny) thought all witchcraft, magic, and sorcery was “absolute horse shit - but you never know if some invisible demon is around to enforce such horse shit, so you better entertain such superstition anyway…”, which is basically saying “it’s aliens”. Pic related.

Damn you all got schooled

>>24664325
>>24664308
Hmm, this sound nothing like what I was taught in science class in school

>>24664334
Because it’s irrelevant. Magic survives as something to describe, not to define. I’m saying a chemist is in their full right to consider the field of chemistry a magical one. Did you never watch Breaking Bad? Chemists are allowed to see the magic, or the wonder and mystery and beauty, within their craft.

Going around and saying “it’s not magic” is a sort of attack of the experience.

>>24664334
Because science is not magic.

>>24664260
>Decil
Devil*

>>24664245
means you hate* the mysteries and wonders of nature/science

>>24664358
Nah. It is. Cellphones are wands and apps are spells. Ask a zoomer how their tabloid works and they won’t be able to tell you. We’re re-hiring retired old people because young people don’t know how to do basic shit anymore, and this is the result of the increasingly problematic competency crisis. Soon old ass engineers and plumbers will be seen as wizards because occult infrastructure has taken over and everyone is isolating themselves, or surrounding themselves, in increasingly and incredibly redundant and useless information bases.

>how DARE you say nature is wonderful, how DARE you find fascination in its endless mysteries, how DARE you

Calling nature magical is empowering the unknown and humans are terrified of the unknown and that’s why magic is hated.

>>24664380
That’s why religion exists at all. It’s all a big cope against the unknown. Humans are inherently irrational creatures, and no matter how rational a man becomes they still need some sort of irrational belief to cope with the overwhelmingly harsh and bland rationality of the world. Otherwise it’s like a cripple without a cane. Even the most brilliant of past scientists held some absolutely insane personal beliefs.

>>24664380
Nobody is saying that you can't call nature beautiful.
Clearly this is not what the disagreement in this thread is about.

>>24664393
The essence of beauty, or wonder, is shared with the essence of magic. If you don’t see how, or why, then this is quite concerning.

>>24664416
gravity also participates in that essence

What can man do against such reckless autism

>>24664425
Yes. Quantum keks can only scream.

>>24664012
Look at the catalogue right now, there are multiple threads with a literal image of Jesus/God/Aquinas as the thumbnail pushing Christian nonsense. Actual discussion of literature gets crowded out by people who have to filter everything in their life through their low tier, lowest common denominator, pre-fabricated ideological lens which saves them from ever having a novel or outside-the-box thought. This board is explicitly set out as NON-THEISM, and the rules clearly direct you to go to /his/ if that is your jam, yet people still shit up this board with something that is directly off topic.

>>24664056
Let's be honest, Freud pretty much summed up the Christian impulse precisely. There is a desire among certain people to have a perpetual father figure to take care of them and soothe their death anxiety. That's all there is to it. You can have wonder and mystery and profundity at the natural universe without the baggage of some random person's daddy complex invading the space.

>>24664083
Some of us are interested in the truth of the universe, not some preconceived notion that is somehow more important than truth. This is the absolute dividing line, either you want embrace delusion, or you want the truth. Magic, divinity, religion are all illusory. The laws of physics are discoverable and real.

>>24664090
A person can have wonder at the complexity in the universe without being a retard and screaming "MAAAAAJJJJICK!!!!".

>>24664712
>You can have wonder and mystery and profundity at the natural universe without the baggage of some random person's daddy complex invading the space.
Yeah well they don’t want that. They don’t want to accept that the universe is merely godlike in its uncaring nature. Evolution is an overly sophisticated blind idiot. It isn’t a being—and even if it was, chances are it doesn’t even notice us, or care to notice us, and no religion can correctly ascertain or wholly predict what it is.

>>24664721
I would argue that science, empiricism, is “true magic”. If it’s True, how is it not True Magic? You can absolutely derive wonder and mystery from truth. Magic in antiquity was seen as a search for truth, much the way the ancient Greeks later interpreted magic to include forms of higher learning.

>>24664725
Lol. “It’s like magic” is all you really need. Just stop there. “He’s a wizard at math”.

>>24664331
>>24664701
But no one has been able to affirm revelation, affirm the hard limits of a desire and a duty yet to be named. No conscious undertaking, and the topical language becomes the opposite of literature because it doesn't actually help anyone, so there's no point in writing it down. It's the same mystery that a public school teacher believes in. It is Judaism, contract psychology. The hard limits of a desire, a duty yet to be named, that's the only literary conclusion and it's absent in all these discussions because the only thing you can say is; I believe
https://youtu.be/ODOWDBLbqLM?si=y5jU0poxhdDazU7z

>>24664721
You haven't studied a scientific discipline and you don't know anything about the history and philosophy of science beyond the most basic pop-sci nonsense that gets BTFO the second you try to parrot it to someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

>>24664721
quick question, because I want to understand your perspective. do you think language (any language) can fully exhaustively capture reality?

>>24646111 (OP)
Hey guys, Op hero sorry to everyone, I meant to post this image

>>24664056
You make a good point. My take on this as an Atheist that still wants to preserve magic is that Demons and Gods would be in essence unknowable substances. Like you can't conceive of endless space, in the same way you can't conceive of the composition of these beings. They may or may not have a composition but it's above human understanding a priori. From that point of view you can have a scientific take on them (as being outside of understanding) while also keeping the magic of them.

Miss me with that gay shit

>>24664056
>>24665309
Believing in gods, demons and fairies is a precursor to believing in extraterrestrials.

>>24665111
It seems likely that the human mind will never "fully exhaustively capture reality", but some of us can get closer than others.

>I HECKIN' BELIEVE IN SCIENCE!
>[doesn't even know calculus]
Why are fedoras like this, bros?

>>24646111 (OP) The
Book of Mormon refuted him circa 1830.

>>24666010
Do you know calculus, anon?

>>24666010
>”magic isn’t fucking real!”
>doesn’t know how the science works
The irony of magic hating dorks

>>24646469
What happens after that

Funny thread

>>24650313
holy fucking based

>>24655378
Best thing I've seen this month. Trannies need to be scolded for all the shit they've caused. For all the damage they've done.

>>24646111 (OP)
His anti-trans stances have been repeatedly refuted by neurobiologists. He’s right about everything else though.

>>24668992
>His anti-trans stances have been repeatedly refuted by neurobiologists
You’re hilarious.

>>24646111 (OP)
I almost fell into a religion trap and God Delusion snapped me right out, love this man. Saved me from a shitty relationship. The chapter on how we tolerate religion too much is extremely based, this book needs a resurgence of anything. It’s still cutting edge, most of the world is still living in their mental cave.

>>24664289
Things being powerful or complex doesn't make them magical, I know it's a joke but if the person who made this meme was sincere then they're just incredulous about things they don't intuitively understand.
Storms and landslides have the power to level cities but are not magic and are as natural as radioactive material
Diagrams and letters are as natural as birdsong
Magnets in certain configurations can cause levitation, so can the thrust and drag of planes and noone takes that to be supernatural.
No idea what the ball thing is, or what it could have to do with demons.
Last image is just something glowing - do you get freaked out when you see a lightbulb?

>>24669256
What is magic to you?

>>24669256
You need to stop coping. You need to start appreciating.

>>24669028
did you catch the ending about Christianity being a bulwark against something potentially far worse? meanwhile this guy is a "cultural christian" who recently left the freedom from religious org because they were becoming too "dogmatic" and "anti science". lmao. every sit down with this retard is him being unable to parse allegory and then deflecting to how do morality and ethics help build rocket ships.

>>24666693
Of course. Learning algebraic physics and then relearning physics through calculus was one of the most enlightening experiences I've ever had.

>>24669256
>Storms and landslides have the power to level cities
Ergo also magical.
>Diagrams and letters are as natural as birdsong
Sure, that's why so many other animals have writing, retard.
>Magnets in certain configurations can cause levitation
Spooky action at a distance.
>Last image is just something glowing
Yes.
>No idea what the ball thing is
They you should shut the fuck up about science.

>>24646111 (OP)
lol

>>24669400
>quotes a literal who to justify his own ignorance

The median IQ of this thread is 80

>>24646111 (OP)
The God of the Old testament does seem more like the Gnostic Demiurge than the loving God of the New Testament that sent his Son to save us
Evil has been accounted for in 4 different ways among religious traditions throughout history.
1. Evil is from God
2. Evil is from a malign counter-god, like some dualist thing where there's a good god and a bad god
3. Evil is from human ignorance
4. Evil is from human sin

Christians seem to think that God isn't evil because he's God and he can just do whatever he wants, because might makes right, or whatever, and evil actually comes from human sin since we have free choice.
I think the gnostic view is interesting, they seem to think that the fallen world we live in was created by an arrogant, flawed god, and that might explain our flawed human nature and this fallen world we live in. Genesis says that we were created in God's image, so that must mean God is flawed? Then maybe that means the Gnostics are right, idk

>>24646111 (OP)
based old man

>>24671006
I'd say 110

>>24646111 (OP)
heh

>>24646111 (OP)
Unrefutable

>>24650126
Does he know

>>24646111 (OP)
refuted by present day bong island

>>24670989
>he thinks ignorance isn't the greatest magic of all

>>24655378
bahhhahahaha

>>24664090
Seethe

>>24646111 (OP)
HOLY FUCK HE'S GOT A GUN GET DOWN

>>24646111 (OP)
No!

vapid bumpbot above

>>24676143
Is that what I think it is

>>24674135
What you say bitch nigga

>>24650313
Retard