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Anonymous No.24795526 [Report] >>24795568 >>24795617 >>24795621 >>24795774 >>24795787 >>24795819 >>24795944 >>24795947 >>24795998 >>24796251 >>24797731 >>24798174 >>24799757 >>24799923 >>24802139 >>24802170 >>24802751 >>24807115 >>24807160 >>24809650 >>24809824 >>24809992 >>24810079 >>24810104 >>24811558 >>24812218 >>24812237 >>24812403 >>24815203 >>24815605
Was he right?
Is Liberal Democracy the ultimate Human System and will we never see something better?
Anonymous No.24795568 [Report] >>24795829 >>24795992 >>24796179 >>24798170 >>24798254 >>24799268 >>24803026 >>24807115
>>24795526 (OP)
Gay secularized stripping down of Hegel's master-slave dialectic built upon Kojeve's interpretation that just pretends that liberalism has resolved all social contradictions, while a cabal of kleptocrat billionaires are turning the USA into a posthuman autocracy after decades of neoliberal imperialism, while China continues to rise in power and influence. Even Fukuyama wrote an entire fucking book in 2001 about technology threatening to undue liberalism via creating a biotech created caste system (Posthuman Future). Obviously 99% of people haven't read this book, haven't read Kojeve, haven't read Hegel, haven't read Posthuman Future, and are totally talking out of their asses.

History is resuming and will completely snap the spine of the entire 400+ year modern era upon the axe of global war meeting technological singularity-break out point. It will end in either a global post-human totalitarian world state of either ZOG or Han-Communist form, or global annihilation.
Anonymous No.24795617 [Report] >>24800050 >>24802142 >>24802587
>>24795526 (OP)
Technology and the internet are relentlessly exposing the unfathomable lie we were sold: that a universal, egalitarian demographic has ever existed. As this truth becomes undeniable, the system will be forced to crush foundational liberal principles like free speech, not to protect the people because they can’t even protect their own citizens, but to protect "Liberalism" itself. The ideology’s biggest issue is that it's no longer the patriotic liberalism of the past; it's a non-conforming creed that has forgotten that shared economic interests are what truly unite a society. Right now, the only thing holding the multicultural zoo of the United States together is a good economy. When the quality of life inevitably drops, even slightly, the younger generation is going to chimp out. Raised on a progressive view of history as a guaranteed upward climb, Millennials and Gen Z will turn into genuine radicals the moment that fantasy shatters. Mix their inevitable meltdown with the social friction from unassimilated third-worlders and their alienated second and third-generation children, and you are going to get some truly crazy times.
Anonymous No.24795621 [Report] >>24795640
>>24795526 (OP)
>Is Liberal Democracy the ultimate Human System
No, it's inherently unsustainable
Liberalism is the endgame of any civilization, it's what happens when they don't have enough enemies and get lazy, hedonistic and complacement
It's Fall of Rome
Anonymous No.24795640 [Report] >>24795644 >>24815957
>>24795621
So this graph says the trend of fertility was always going down, even in “illiberal” societies because of the time periods, but the baby boom was like this weird blip in that trend and it was never seen or repeated again. Why is that? what caused it and can we repeat it?
Anonymous No.24795644 [Report] >>24795653 >>24795674 >>24796595 >>24796600 >>24799481
>>24795640
The birth rates will naturally fix themselves
Religious conservatives will have plenty of children and will eventually turn USA into a theocratic autocracy, as it should be
The only question now is wether we get there peacefully or violently, and that all depends on if the liberals are willing to give away their power
Anonymous No.24795653 [Report] >>24795672
>>24795644
>as it should be
Enjoy your Jewish-Messianic totalitarian regime, you stupid maggot.
Anonymous No.24795672 [Report] >>24795679 >>24795690 >>24796000 >>24796008
>>24795653
Nobody under 30 likes Israel
Support for jews dies with the boomers
Anonymous No.24795674 [Report] >>24815617
>>24795644
I’m sorry, but that’s just not going to happen. Fertility will eventually balance out but still be low, even in places like Iran that’s supposed to be the thing you would want is having low birth rates too. I don’t see the people or enough of people wanting a theocracy either in the united states, even the religious ones.
Anonymous No.24795679 [Report] >>24795681 >>24811137
>>24795672
Doubling down on the stupid maggotry I see. ZOG completely controls the government currently, and is planning on a global war and AI singularity within the next 5-10 years. Your masters are in power, are at the cusp of the next big thing, you here you are jerking off on 4chan to trad birth rates theoretically unfucking the west down the line in several generations.

You are so clueless and hapless.
Anonymous No.24795681 [Report] >>24795684
>>24795679
>You are so clueless and hapless.
Maybe, but unlike you I'm not hopeless
Anonymous No.24795684 [Report] >>24795883
>>24795681
I haven't indulged in hopelessness, I am pointing how fucking retarded you are. Delusions lead to hopelessness in the end when they get completely shattered by brutish reality. The Mormons heretics and Amish aren't going to save you.
Anonymous No.24795690 [Report]
>>24795672
Their delusional evangelical cult may be losing its influence, but that’s irrelevant when Zionist money can just buy a new narrative, handing out $7,000 checks per post to influencers. Sure, the general population fucking hates them right now, but the politicians certainly don’t, and millions of dollars are already being spent on TikTok and other social media ventures to reverse public opinion. If you want to dismantle the political system they control, you have to strike while the iron is hot. With Gaza on everyone's mind, the time to launch a real counter-offensive is right now, before they successfully buy back the narrative.
Anonymous No.24795774 [Report] >>24796031
>>24795526 (OP)
>Is Liberal Democracy the ultimate Human System and will we never see something better?
thats not what he said
Anonymous No.24795787 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
It only works for high iq war-like WASP yeomen.
Anonymous No.24795819 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
Liberal democracy failed to protect Ukraine and Afghanistan, it's already on the decline
Anonymous No.24795829 [Report]
>>24795568
I despise China for racial reasons. Any books on this?
Anonymous No.24795883 [Report]
>>24795684
Being retarded actually raises your SMV
Anonymous No.24795944 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
No, the author said he was wrong.
Anonymous No.24795947 [Report] >>24796002
>>24795526 (OP)
>liberal democracy
The same system where people will bootlick the corporations that they claim to revile because they put up a pride flag one month a year?
Uh...
Anonymous No.24795992 [Report] >>24796179
>>24795568
FPBP. I fucking wish Fukuyama was right. If the whole world was like 90s America forever, that might not be so bad. What's coming however will be worse than any of us could ever imagine.
Anonymous No.24795998 [Report] >>24798110
>>24795526 (OP)
>will we never see something better?
Fukuyama could only compare to what he saw in the past, being Japanese and unimaginative, but the future brings new possibilities for governnance heretfore unimaginable. A kind of utopia with humans not suffering from want anymore but each reciving what he he needs and all watched over constantly by machines of loving grace.
Anonymous No.24796000 [Report] >>24796017
>>24795672
So what? So long as Jews exist, that means Jews have power. And so long as they have power then they will continue to drive support for their country and embed themselves in the institutions of other countries to serve their goals. What does it matter if only boomers like Israel? Young Jews like Jared Kushner are still marrying into the global elite and doing everything he can to ensure Israel's survival.
Anonymous No.24796002 [Report]
>>24795947
yes. It can support such complex mind games like this and in fact floursh in contradiction where other systems would collapse. Liberal democracy is more than capable of profiting off of dynamic incongruities.
Anonymous No.24796008 [Report] >>24796189
>>24795672
So what? So long as Jews exist, that means Jews have power. And so long as they have power then they will continue to drive support for their country and embed themselves in the institutions of other countries to serve their goals. What does it matter if only boomers like Israel? Young Jews like Jared Kushner are still marrying into the global elite and doing everything he can to ensure Israel's survival. ZOG does not depend on public approval. Virtually nothing in modern liberal democracy does. That's pretty much the biggest thing indicating that this whole system is a giant scam and the façade will eventually end.
Anonymous No.24796017 [Report] >>24814072
>>24796000
Isnt it preferable to prioritize cultivating robustness first rather than to reduce suffering first?

To make people better first then to make their circumstances better second.
Anonymous No.24796031 [Report] >>24796148 >>24809763
>>24795774
Well I mean, yeah it is. Very explicitly that is what he believes. It's not that liberalism will dominate the world and everyone else will naturally become liberal, but that even if liberalism falls out of favor it'll still inherently be the best possible system humans could make. There is no further step in political evolution in his view.
Anonymous No.24796148 [Report]
>>24796031
The idea that there are no other options is absolute nonsense; there are always other systems to explore. You can absolutely preserve your culture and heritage without moralizing about other races like the radical liberals do, and you certainly don't need any death camps to do it. The same goes for supporting the working man: you can back the worker without resorting to the irrational, out-of-control violence that is Marxism. The fundamental problem with these other systems, whether left or right, is their lack of limits, no real social contract to bind them. That's why liberalism, in my opinion, at least has rules built into its framework; rules I believe it’s tragically forgotten but rules nonetheless. At the end of the day, it's all about trying to keep the peace, and a system that can deliver that is what everyone actually wants.
Anonymous No.24796179 [Report] >>24796511 >>24799709
>>24795568
>>24795992
Updated (this took way too much effort).

And don't fall into despair. Everything depends on multiple tech trees working out, with AI central.
Anonymous No.24796189 [Report] >>24796207
>>24796008
To be fair I think people obsess over them too much
Anonymous No.24796207 [Report]
>>24796189
Its become justified since Israel went off the deep end after oct 7th (which almost certainly was allowed to happen).
Anonymous No.24796251 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
It appears to be Freemasonry and their cult of the nephilim (IE, the elites/33rd level Masons believe themselves to be ancestors of them) and their plutocracy from the "deep state"
Anonymous No.24796511 [Report] >>24796628 >>24796728
>>24796179
AI is just going to end with endless slop videos on the internet making everyone retarded. I don’t believe Skynet will happen regardless of what all the doomers say (the interesting thing is that all the doomers are the ones pushing AI themselves such as Elon Musk, giving credence to the idea that our modern worldview is inherently omnicidal)
Anonymous No.24796595 [Report]
>>24795644
>The birth rates will naturally fix themselves
The birth rates don't need to be fixed to keep the current system, at least in america. They just import people, and those imports will vote to keep the people that brought them there in power.
Anonymous No.24796600 [Report] >>24796625 >>24797343
>>24795644
>The birth rates will naturally fix themselves
The birth rates being fixed won't change the current system, at least in america. They will just import people faster than whitey can breed, and those imports will vote to keep the people that brought them there in power.
Anonymous No.24796625 [Report]
>>24796600
The final red pill is Indian male mating strategies, but most here are not ready for that.
Anonymous No.24796628 [Report]
>>24796511
So its a self-fulfilling prophecy? Sounds pretty easy, just genocide the doomsayers.
Anonymous No.24796728 [Report]
>>24796511
You have zero idea what is being developed beyond your consumer slop products.
Anonymous No.24797343 [Report] >>24797737
>>24796600
White people were also imported to america, you know.
Anonymous No.24797731 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
bump
Anonymous No.24797737 [Report]
>>24797343
Oh immensely
Anonymous No.24798091 [Report]
I would feel more sympathy for the natives if instead of just killing each other with sharpened wood they had developed technology.
Who cares about people who were too dumb for metallurgy? If they didn't die at our hands, the Nazis would have invaded them in WW2 while the British would be cowering on their island.
Anonymous No.24798110 [Report]
>>24795998
>being Japanese and unimaginative
t. hasn't read umineko
Anonymous No.24798170 [Report] >>24798201 >>24810062 >>24816862
>>24795568
>kleptocrat billionaires
you mean the leftist managerial bureaucratic academic class. though a decent amount of billionaires out there overlap with the aforementioned group so you're partly right.
>China continues to rise in power and influence
they are a shithole that is probably goign to collapse.
>History is resuming and will completely snap the spine of the entire 400+ year modern era upon the axe of global war meeting technological singularity-break out point. It will end in either a global post-human totalitarian world state of either ZOG or Han-Communist form, or global annihilation.
thats not gonna happen if the elite becomes decadent and stagnates and gets conquered by barbarian powers like what always happens in history. and you cant keep a society like that going if you degenerate so much that people refuse to/can't procreate and keep the social technologies that enable for the industrial/digital world to survive alive.

the most likely long term future is a return to older social structures and federations of polities.
Anonymous No.24798174 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
History was supposed to end December 3rd 2015 at Eaglebank Arena in Fairfax Virginia, however something completely catastrophic happened that made it continue. No I will not elaborate I will simply sit in the corner and cope.
Anonymous No.24798201 [Report]
>>24798170
Anonymous No.24798254 [Report] >>24798324 >>24798388 >>24807091 >>24807097
>>24795568
Our Posthuman Future is not a rejection of his End of History theory. He simply conceded that science will continue to progress even as the world stabilizes into one liberal democratic order, and he went over the issues that theoretical technologies, such as life extension therapy, may create economically and demographically.
I read it. It's a decent book, but it's nothing to make schizophrenic image collages over. A "biotech created caste system" as Fukuyama describes it would only be a modern version of the Nazi's eugenics program, and the Nazis lost to democracy. AI is a bubble that cannot be trusted to parse a sentence, let alone control warhead. And the increase in drone technology only further solidifies the liberal democratic hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
Anonymous No.24798324 [Report] >>24798559
>>24798254
That's cool. Go reread it, because you clearly didn't read it close enough. Here are vital excerpts:

>In the course of thinking through the many critiques of that original piece that had been put forward, it seemed to me that the only one that was not possible to refute was the argument that there could be no end of history unless there was an end of science. As I had de- scribed the mechanism of a progressive universal history in my subsequent book The End of History and the Last Man, the unfolding of modern natural science and the technology that it spawns emerges as one of its chief drivers. Much of late-twentieth-century technology, like the so-called Information Revolution, was quite conducive to the spread of liberal democracy. But we are nowhere near the end of science, and indeed seem to be in the midst of a monumental period of advance in the life sciences.

-Preface, pg. xii

>As the more perceptive critics of the concept of the “end of history’ have pointed out, there can be no end of history without an end of modern natural science and technology.!? Not only are we not at an end of science and technology; we appear to be poised at the
cusp of one of the most momentous periods of technological advance in history. Biotechnology and a greater scientific understanding of the human brain promise to have extremely significant political ramifications. Together, they reopen possibilities for social engineering on which societies, with their twentieth-century technologies, had given up.

-Pg. 15

In building upon the idea of Huxley's Brave New World, in which a genetically engineered caste system stratifying civilization, Fukuyama warns of the implication of designer children as one that would undermine entirely the foundation liberal precept of equality of all human individuals:
> If wealthy parents suddenly have open to them the opportunity to increase the intelligence of their children as well as that of all their subsequent descendants, then we have the makings not just of a moral dilemma but of a full-scale class war.

-Pg. 16

>The aim of this book is to argue that Huxley was right, that the most significant threat posed by contemporary biotechnology is the possibility that it will alter human nature and thereby move us into a “posthuman’” stage of history. This is important, I will argue, because human nature exists, is a meaningful concept, and has provided a stable continuity to our experience as a species. It is, conjointly with religion, what defines our most basic values. Human nature shapes and constrains the possible kinds of political regimes, so a technology powerful enough to reshape what we are will have possibly malign consequences for liberal democracy and the nature of politics itself.

-Pg. 7
Anonymous No.24798388 [Report] >>24798390 >>24798559 >>24799330
>>24798254
>It's a decent book, but it's nothing to make schizophrenic image collages over.
Cope to downplay the very real and urgent developments that image is bring to the fore.

> A "biotech created caste system" as Fukuyama describes it would only be a modern version of the Nazi's eugenics program, and the Nazis lost to democracy.
Don't make me laugh. Is that why it was the totalitarian, Russian Communist Red Army that took Berlin? Is that why the imperial western nations, who were operating under Exceptional dictatorial powers at the time, waged total war to destroy the Third Reich? You're using bad history and paving over the extremely nasty contradiction inherent within the western liberal tradition via its imperial roots to handwave that the Nazi vision was within miles of taking the Kremlin and conquering Europe. Democracy had nothing do with it, democracy 9 out of 10 times is a euphemism used by western elites to cajole the public into accepting policy decisions already made behind closed doors.

>AI is a bubble that cannot be trusted to parse a sentence, let alone control warhead.
Irony of the grammar/typographical issues in this sentence. LLM are excellent at parsing sentences, and AI has already been integrated directly into military command and control systems, with Israel using AI systems for targeting of Gazan militants. Semi-autonomous drones have been fielding for years now and have been advanced by the war in Ukraine, with full autonomous slaughterbots slated to be field this around this time this year.

>The visual navigation technology trialed by KrattWorks is the next step and an innovation that has only reached the battlefield this year. Meier expects that by the end of 2025, firms including his own will introduce fully autonomous solutions encompassing visual navigation to overcome GPS jamming, as well as terminal guidance and smart target recognition.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/ukraine-killer-drones

Alex Karp, lead of Palantir, commented upon these very developments, specifically that:
>that we are “very close” to terminator robots and at the threshold of “somewhat autonomous drones and devices like this being the most important instruments of war. You already see this in Ukraine.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/17/style/alex-karp-palantir.html
https://www.pelayoarbues.com/literature-notes/Articles/Palantir%E2%80%99s-Alex-Karp-Talks-About-War,-AI-and-America%E2%80%99s-Future---The-New-York-Times

>And the increase in drone technology only further solidifies the liberal democratic hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
One, as the Ukrainian attacks on the Russian strategic nuclear bombers demonstrated, drones are making new war fighting tactics extremely asymmetrical and practical as a result, not the other way around. Secondly, China has a near monopoly in the global civilian drone production market, with their drones being instrumental on both sides of the war in Ukraine.
Anonymous No.24798390 [Report]
>>24798388
And the wide use of drones by both sides in Ukraine demonstrate that they are a politically neutral tech, used by both authoritarian and "democratic" sides. Its simply of matter of who has the wider production capacity, which goes to China.
Anonymous No.24798559 [Report] >>24798599
>>24798324
None of this contradicts what I posted.
>>24798388
>Democracy had nothing to do with an alliance of democratic nations + Stalin (whose help was not needed) winning WW2
Retard.
>LLM are excellent at parsing sentences
Which is why they stumble when you ask them to analyze kindergarten-tier sentences, right?

And then you proceed to unironically link a Palantir press release as evidence of real technology. Frighteningly gullible.
Anonymous No.24798599 [Report]
>>24798559
Massively unserious response.
Anonymous No.24799268 [Report] >>24804002 >>24807115
>>24795568
Here's the thing -- even if people disagree that liberalism is the "end of history" does not mean that there is no end of history at all. What reason do we have to believe that this technocratic kleptocracy you speak of won't be the same thing in the end? No big wars, no revolutions, scarcity has been solved, the masses are feminized consumer units, etc. That is what it means to be at the end of history and Fukuyama correctly believes that liberalism creates the best conditions for this.
Anonymous No.24799330 [Report] >>24799537
>>24798388
The most insane thing is that nothing is safe if transhumanism ends up becoming as significant as we theorize. It will upend the past several thousand years of human history, creating a totally new epoch. No religion or even modern ideology is safe. Not only can liberalism not survive in a world where superhumans are bred and preferred over normal humans but even communism seems obsolete in the face of such a world considering any sense of equality will be refuted -- Communist China is on pace to become the leader bioengineering just to give you an idea of how worthless socialist ideology is becoming. People like Peter Thiel and Alex Karp keep talking about the antichrist or whatever to distract people from the fact that they're the closest living relatives to him. They are genuine world-ending demons.
Anonymous No.24799481 [Report]
>>24795644
>The birth rates will naturally fix themselves
Low birth rates are a natural reaction to current population densities and the mode of existence we're in. They will return back to normal once the issues are resolved.
Anonymous No.24799537 [Report]
>>24799330
Yup. "Trans" or really posthumanism completely unravels the entire modern paradigm down to a metaphysical, philosophical level. Authoritarian socialism/communism and liberal capitalism are literal cousin regimes, built upon the notion of human equality, that aim to achieve end of an universal society of free, happy, and affluent global citizens through different institutional, political-economic means. Posthumanism completely shatters that by hoisting a new stage of cosmic-biological evolution through an entirely new master race, over the entire prior 250k+ years of human history, much less the last 400 of the modern era and its pathetic, lowly hopes. It instantly leads to the either the development of a global caste system and whether it will be built upon altruism between the new master race and underclass or built upon downright sadistic totalitarian slavery, or the complete extermination of the human race by the new master race. Said master race will have the space-flight capacity to leave the earth, opening the cosmic era of history.

I think the fact we are alive right at this moment is proof that life has meaning: we are either here to suffer as divine punishment a catastrophic global-inflection point for humanity, or to do something about it. What will it be?
Anonymous No.24799709 [Report]
>>24796179
Heebie-jeebies
Anonymous No.24799757 [Report] >>24804836
>>24795526 (OP)
Considering liberal democracy is currently collapsing around us and we’re moving towards corporatist techno-feudalism, no.

The biggest failing of Liberal Democracy is that it’s naively optimistic about human nature and is too timid to implement the systems necessary to prevent tyranny.
Anonymous No.24799923 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
I don't understand why he thinks liberal democracy, instead of democracy alone, is the ultimate system. Are all political parties now just liberal democrats?
Anonymous No.24799967 [Report] >>24800054 >>24800399
this pseudo-straussian red-thread stuff has about the level of intellectual "seriousness" of that instagram girl who does occult interpretations of feddy wap lyrics
Anonymous No.24800050 [Report]
>>24795617
This is a good post
Anonymous No.24800054 [Report] >>24800128
>>24799967
Instead of throwing a tantrum, engage with a single poster.
Anonymous No.24800128 [Report] >>24800399
>>24800054
i think my indicative use of certain punctuation marks did a sufficient job of grabbing your attention
Anonymous No.24800399 [Report] >>24802859
>>24799967
>>24800128
>he knows of an Instagram girl who does occult interpretations of feddy wap lyrics
>accuses others of being unserious with no further argument
really activates the almonds
Anonymous No.24800427 [Report] >>24800859
If Liberalism is so great, why has there not been a single long-standing liberal civilization throughout all of history?
Even Rome fell once it got too liberal
Anonymous No.24800859 [Report] >>24801218
>>24800427
Well it’s new
Anonymous No.24801218 [Report]
>>24800859
Laudanum was new at one point.
Anonymous No.24802127 [Report]
bump
Anonymous No.24802139 [Report] >>24802599 >>24809785
>>24795526 (OP)
It's already falling apart and the only thing holding it together is relative economic prosperity which is coming to an end

How will democracy function once west turns into majority non white 3rd world hell hole?
Anonymous No.24802142 [Report]
>>24795617
Pretty much what I wanted to say
Anonymous No.24802170 [Report] >>24802189 >>24803889 >>24804469 >>24809785
>>24795526 (OP)
it's crazy how fast that worldview has disappeared. it only took 20-30 years for the entire liberal utopia to collapse. only the european elite are still clinging onto the delusion, but you can sense that they won't be in power much longer. i feel bad for all the older people who warned about globohomo liberalism but are no longer around to see it actually collapse.
Anonymous No.24802189 [Report]
>>24802170
Dude they just imported 500k Nepalese into my formerly 99% white country of barely 3 million.
Anonymous No.24802587 [Report] >>24802625
>>24795617
You have to be at least 18 years old to post here.
Anonymous No.24802599 [Report] >>24802646
>>24802139
>How will democracy function once west turns into majority non white 3rd world hell hole?


we already have examples of this its brazil or south africa.

in brazil the poor live in slums while the rich white people live in gated communities.

The rich will always be able to escape the diversity
Anonymous No.24802625 [Report]
>>24802587
>no rebuttal
Retard
Anonymous No.24802646 [Report]
>>24802599
What a great future, I would probably prefer another war over that
Anonymous No.24802751 [Report] >>24803140 >>24803170
>>24795526 (OP)
No. The next 1000 years belong to the Chi-coms.
Anonymous No.24802859 [Report] >>24803014
>>24800399
>copes with his ignorance of contemporary spirit
>in a strauss thread
Anonymous No.24803014 [Report] >>24803050
>>24802859
Strauss belabors the point that the modern Zeitgeist is a lowly pandering to the common denominator of human urges because they are more obtainable. One can understand this without actually consuming the slop that results from it.
Anonymous No.24803026 [Report] >>24803138 >>24803170
>>24795568
Rolling for Posthuman Han-Communist future
Literally our last chance against the horror
Anonymous No.24803050 [Report]
>>24803014
you need to restart with the greeks, you've come so far but you've forgotten to preserve everything beautiful and noble about this tradition.
Anonymous No.24803138 [Report]
>>24803026
Yeah I'd rather not
Anonymous No.24803140 [Report]
>>24802751
I just can't even
Anonymous No.24803170 [Report] >>24803544
>>24802751
>>24803026
Chinese aren't even communist anymore, they have transforming into fascism
Anonymous No.24803544 [Report]
>>24803170
What if I told you that the difference between Communism and Fascism is basically nothing except what terminology they use and what groups they blame to justify giving more power to the government.
Anonymous No.24803889 [Report] >>24805300
>>24802170
It's not collapsed yet though. Liberal democracies are still the most powerful states in the world. America still has the most power and is the hegemonic center of this system. People who act like things are already over are very silly -- we're still in the beginning stages of this Romanesque imperial decline. Trump's administration has disavowed Fukuyama however there's no guarantee he won't be put back in the pedestal if Democrats return to power in 2028.
Anonymous No.24804002 [Report] >>24806021
>>24799268
Exactly this. Way too many people focus on the "liberalism" part and not the "last man" part. Fundamentally the elites who run the world are still in a race to reach the end of history. It's what they want. Whether or not America contradicts liberal principles under Trump doesn't change the fact that it's still nominally a liberal state that actively pursues a policy of post-industrialism. Our culture is based around nostalgia for the past because we have ideologically surrendered the future. Even the actual innovators like the billionaire technocrats repeatedly claim that AI will kill everyone. They loathe the past, they're scared of the future and don't want to reach it. Modernity wants a perpetual present, an end-state of development.
Anonymous No.24804469 [Report] >>24805273
>>24802170
You're out of touch with the rest of the world if you think the process of liberalization is somehow dead
Anonymous No.24804836 [Report] >>24807062
>>24799757
>The biggest failing of Liberal Democracy is that it’s naively optimistic about human nature and is too timid to implement the systems necessary to prevent tyranny.
Trvke
Anonymous No.24805273 [Report] >>24807064
>>24804469
How is it not? No one believes in the ideas of free market and free speech anymore
Anonymous No.24805300 [Report] >>24806059 >>24806557
>>24803889
>Liberal democracies are still the most powerful states in the world
Right now, and their power keeps declining with every year
Anonymous No.24806008 [Report]
Trump is just the biggest chad around in the boomer politicians circle. Simple as, literal grug politics since 10000 BC. He just gets the votes cause he's the biggest stacy magnet for the rich in the west. Shilling this book is cope.
>ooh trump just blew up some south americans ungh sooo hot let me get on social media and cheerlead maga grab my pussy and blow up more third worlders donald

All your words are just cope. Trump could have ICE go around and start blasting people in the streets that don't like him or charlie kirk and he'd still be getting women dropping their panties to vote for his party. Everything is just unga bunga violence lookism wars.
Anonymous No.24806021 [Report]
>>24804002
>Our culture is based around nostalgia for the past because we have ideologically surrendered the future
big mark fisher wave making rounds again i see.
Anonymous No.24806059 [Report] >>24807137 >>24811558
>>24805300
In what way? Literally nothing has been diminished so far externally. They just got away with annihilating Gaza and killing a fuckload of people with every camera pointed at the carnage just like they did with Iraq, Vietnam etc.
Anonymous No.24806557 [Report] >>24806829 >>24807137
>>24805300
you cannot undo immigration, which means fascism is very unlikely to emerge in the West as a viable alternative to the liberal order. discontent does not mean collapse. it just means endless seething until the end of time
Anonymous No.24806829 [Report] >>24806872
>>24806557
Western Rome collapsed for much of the same reasons though
Anonymous No.24806872 [Report]
>>24806829
Yeah but what does "collapse" mean really.
Anonymous No.24807062 [Report]
>>24804836
You both are patently wrong. It’s the exact opposite. Liberalism has a deeply pessimistic view of human nature. The entire point of the system is to castrate the potential and power of the masses because it does not trust humans to wield it. Fukuyama himself very explicitly admits this all the time as the main reason for why liberalism exists and why he supports it. The deliberate de-industrialization of the West after the 60s, our culture of guilt and self loathing, our denunciation of anything resembling great power like Trump or China, etc all represent the logic of liberalism taken to its natural conclusion.
Anonymous No.24807064 [Report] >>24807076 >>24807141
>>24805273
>No one believes in the ideas of free market and free speech anymore
Utter doomer drivel. All you Westerners are hysterical. Fukuyama’s critics are more embarrassing than he is. The average person in the West is still absolutely libtarded and see themselves as free, enlightened people in civilized democracies, and anything that represents a challenge to this way of life like Islam or China are relentlessly demonized. You see a couple cracks start to show in the ideological narrative and suddenly declare that the world is collapsing and freedom is dead, yada yada.
Anonymous No.24807076 [Report] >>24809785
>>24807064
Nationalization is a contradiction for Fukuyama. He did stress his notion of liberalism placed social dimensions before economic ones though but this also had the simultaneous effect of making him a liberal so long as people could gadfly and left him in the we must perpetually develop loop.

>tldr he always agrees intervention is necessary but the N word will always trigger him. Every Fukuyama thread will always devolve into seething and semantic arguments.

>he still called it too early.
Anonymous No.24807090 [Report]
the more thought i give it, the more difficult i find it to argue that britain declaring war on the german reich was a good idea
Anonymous No.24807091 [Report]
>>24798254
>"Yeah, we basically admit that liberal democracy is a product of industrial revolution and technology that made mass production possible"
>"W-why, yes, new technologies w-will emerge under liberal democracy, w-what about it?"
>"N-no, those new technologies will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER lead to any form of economy, social organization or infrastructure that are incompatible with muh liberal democracy"
kay

>And the increase in drone technology only further solidifies the liberal democratic hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in nuclear technology only further solidifies the Communist hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in machine gun, armored vehicle and aircraft technology only further solidifies the imperial hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in rifle technology only further solidifies the monarchial hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in plate armor technology only further solidifies the feudal hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth
>And the increase in horse technology only further solidifies the despotic hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth
>Unga bunga big stikkk make da Big Chief Foreva Chief! No grug fight da Big Chief of da Big Stick!
Reminder that combat use of quadcopters were literally pioneered by ISIS. Every single successful military technology makes warfare more accessible, because it's the accessible, cheap and simple military technologies that become successful.

The entire of European global imperial project was curtailed by gooks and niggers getting their hands on guns. But dumbass mfs from teh Georgian people at least had the excuse of there being no solid and reliable evidence for gooks and niggers being capable of learning, much less manufacturing the European power multiplier tech.

Now muh liberal democracies are the ones playing catch-up, but oh my Fukuyama these things are most definitely acting purely as technological stabilizers and there is no way for them to be successfully used by the opposition to the hegemony, well except for all the examples of the opposition to the hegemony very effectively using them right now but that doesn't count, just stfu and pay for another MIM-104 PAC-3, it is totally making drone warfare impractical and more trouble than it's worth for Russian and not for us!
Anonymous No.24807097 [Report]
>>24798254
>"Yeah, we basically admit that liberal democracy is a product of industrial revolution and technology that made mass production possible"
>"W-why, yes, new technologies w-will emerge under liberal democracy, w-what about it?"
>"N-no, those new technologies will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER lead to any form of economy, social organization or infrastructure that are incompatible with muh liberal democracy"
kay

>And the increase in drone technology only further solidifies the liberal democratic hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in nuclear technology only further solidifies the Communist hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in machine gun, armored vehicle and aircraft technology only further solidifies the imperial hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in rifle technology only further solidifies the monarchial hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth.
>And the increase in plate armor technology only further solidifies the feudal hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth
>And the increase in horse technology only further solidifies the despotic hegemony by making war impractical and more trouble than it's worth
>Unga bunga big stikkk make da Big Chief Foreva Chief! No grug fight da Big Chief of da Big Stick!
Reminder that combat use of quadcopters was literally pioneered by ISIS. Every single successful military technology makes warfare more accessible, because it's the accessible, cheap and simple military technologies that become successful.

The entire European global imperial project was curtailed by gooks and niggers getting their hands on guns. But dumbass mfs from teh Victorian period at least had the excuse of there being no solid and reliable evidence for gooks and niggers being capable of learning the use, much less the manufacture of the European power multiplier tech. Now muh liberal democracies are the ones playing catch-up, but oh my Fukuyama these things are most definitely working purely as technological stabilizers and there is no way for them to be successfully used by the opposition to the hegemony, well except for all the examples of the opposition to the hegemony very effectively using them right now. But that doesn't count, just stfu and pay $2 billion for another MIM-104 PAC-3, it is totally making drone warfare impractical and more trouble than it's worth for Russia and not for us.
Anonymous No.24807107 [Report] >>24807118 >>24815213
>mfw i recently learnt that archaeology is a uniquely western phenomenon and the entire field will probably die along with the west
Anonymous No.24807115 [Report] >>24807135
>>24795526 (OP)
I thought this thread was bait but here it is on the front page. No. He's not right. I can't say much with certainty about the future, but I feel safe saying that.
>>24795568
Imagine asking someone in the 14th century what they thought the future would hold. I imagine it could not be more inane than your opinions on what the future will be. Their views might have been different, but their certainty about their self importance, and that of their personal past/present, and the need for them to exert mastery over it by making claims is so similar to yours, and to men who write books like Fukuyama's that I just wish people with an excess of certainty would exercise some self control and some reasonable doubt once in a while.
>>24799268
>No big wars, no revolutions, scarcity has been solved, the masses are feminized consumer units, etc.
You of course choose to define what a big war is, conveniently omitting anything that might occur to undermine the hypothesis that you are attempting to pretend has not preceded your observations. Even if you try to define revolutions the same way, I have to wonder how delusional you must be to ignore the revolutions, both violent and otherwise (since you don't specify), occurring all around you. If you can't follow my trend with your even more ludicrous claims, I'm wasting my time explaining this next point, but maybe someone else will read this: Are you so locked in the present that you can't even conceive of a redefinition of a big war by society? How many times have the forms of war changed? How many times will they continue to change? It would be fitting though, to be entirely honest with you.
tl;dr
Some people can't imagine anything around them changing, so they assume that it must mean the only thing that can come next is the end.
Anonymous No.24807118 [Report] >>24807121
>>24807107
Ok and? We in the Asia have our own temples preserved, we don't have to dig for them in the America and steal it.
Anonymous No.24807121 [Report]
>>24807118
i'm talking about archaeology, not preservation
do you understand how catastrophic it would be to our understanding of history if that entire field were to vanish?
Anonymous No.24807134 [Report]
I can't believe there are all those people ITT who still take this clown seriously, his books are the epitome of boomer truth regime propaganda and will look even more ridiculous in 50 years
Anonymous No.24807135 [Report] >>24807148 >>24807295
>>24807115
It is inconceivable to me that our world of ChatGPT and porn could produce a large scale revolution or war in any Western country.
Anonymous No.24807137 [Report]
>>24806059
>>24806557
Demographics are destiny, once white people become a minority liberalism goes away
Birth rates are the most important issue which Fukuyama refuses to talk about, you can survive endless wars, you can't survive permanent demographic replacement, a stronger patriarchal system will replace the current weak feminine one.
Anonymous No.24807141 [Report]
>>24807064
Have you ever talked to young people? They have no faith in the system after getting constantly fucked over by boomers, they only believe in democracy because the alternative is a war.

>You see a couple cracks start to show in the ideological narrative and suddenly declare that the world is collapsing
The west's solutions to these problems is more censorship and government control, Covid and the reaction killed the illusion of liberalism and everyone sees it for what it is.
Anonymous No.24807144 [Report] >>24807146 >>24807147 >>24807164 >>24807310 >>24807346 >>24809757 >>24817377
think whatever you like of their ideology but no matter which angle i approach them from in order to analyze them, the conclusion is always the same: they were the final drop of the western essence
Anonymous No.24807146 [Report]
>>24807144
Reminds me of the Thulsa Doom snake cult at the end of Conan
Anonymous No.24807147 [Report]
>>24807144
Fukuyama is a coward so of course he will never address the JQ and how they corrupted liberalism in their favor
Anonymous No.24807148 [Report] >>24807162
>>24807135
Once hyperinflation hits everything will change, there is pretty much no way to avoid it at this point.
Anonymous No.24807160 [Report] >>24807169
>>24795526 (OP)
Actually anarcho-capitalism is the ultimate system.
>inb4 leftoid & rightoid seethe
Cope.
Anonymous No.24807162 [Report]
>>24807148
remember how the US printed ~80% of all currency currently in circulation and also changed the definition of "inflation" a week before that quarter's economic report, both during covid? i think you will find that they will stretch, distort and warp reality before they give up their delusion about liberalism
Anonymous No.24807164 [Report] >>24807172
>>24807144
its insane the level of flourishment of philosophy within germany up until the war, and the impact that german thinkers had afterwards
Anonymous No.24807169 [Report]
>>24807160
nobody cares about the (jewish) political theory equivalent to flat earth theory
Anonymous No.24807172 [Report]
>>24807164
it's insane the level of everything within the western world up until the war, and the impact it had on everything in the west afterwards
Anonymous No.24807295 [Report] >>24808929
>>24807135
>It is inconceivable to me that our world of ChatGPT and porn could produce a large scale revolution or war in any Western country.
That's literally exactly unironically factually exactly what the majority of people believe before every major war ever.
Anonymous No.24807310 [Report] >>24807331 >>24817377
>>24807144
I'm starting to believe this more and more
National Socialist Germany was the last stand of Western civilization, and it got destroyed by the mass corruption of the world
We've been in decline ever since
Anonymous No.24807331 [Report]
>>24807310
and it seems like such a ridiculous thought because they themselves were such a destructive force and yet their death has resulted in an order of magnitude more of it
here we are
Anonymous No.24807346 [Report] >>24807903 >>24810083
>>24807144
>they were the final drop of the western essence
Why would the Western essence suck at war so badly?
Anonymous No.24807349 [Report] >>24807628
The problem of excess has not been solved (Bataille). Hegelians think all ideological threads can be resolved and absorbed into a singularity (God, basically). Even language itself refuses this. It has a greater tendency towards dissolution than resolution. The capital-machine does a great job of reintegrating dead matter and unproductive forces but it's all décor and smoke. As Baudrillard said, one small injection of death would throw the state of things completely off-course. Hegelians like to play with themselves. They can't shid
Anonymous No.24807628 [Report]
>>24807349
>can be resolved
not "can be" - is, in fact, resolved, each time, constantly, everywhere, all at once, whether you like it or not, in real time, by a multidimensional semiotic system actuated through the technology you're using right this very instant.

>Even language itself
is just a species of writing and is subject to all its infelicities, impermanence, accidents, decay, disappearance, etc. you need to re-read the first chapters of PoS.

>injection of death
this planet has fenced off designated live fire zones for exactly this reason.
Anonymous No.24807903 [Report] >>24809718
>>24807346
no western essence can ever defeat the russian bear
Anonymous No.24808929 [Report]
>>24807295
Not true at all. Europe before WW1 was still significantly more mobile and violent than today, even with Ukraine
Anonymous No.24809650 [Report] >>24809743
>>24795526 (OP)
For reference the current political crisis in the United Kingdom revolves around Israeli football hooligans known for instigating riots and chanting death threats have been banned from attending a match in Birmingham because it has a large Muslim minority and the UK ruling class sees this ban as a massive uprooting of the post-war liberal world order where politicians are invoking the Holocaust as a comparison to the ban. In case anyone still think that liberal democracy is viable system in the 21st century.
Anonymous No.24809718 [Report]
>>24807903
Lol, said Reagan. Lmao, even.
Anonymous No.24809743 [Report]
>>24809650
Man the UK is so fucked
Anonymous No.24809757 [Report]
>>24807144
>western essence is when bugman chink-tier collectivism
Anonymous No.24809763 [Report] >>24809825
>>24796031
The most useful writing of Fukushima is going to be when he do the exercise of doubting his thesis.

The first doubt is the simplest:
He wrote it on paper and published it about as the Soviet Union collapsed. Where a lot of the post mortem of the Soviet state turned out to align very well with Fukushima
However his first doubt do lead to his first brilliance: The argument he makes is that a lot of stronger types of government can't and won't deal with transition of power, meaning they got a really nice showing(such as the Soviet 5 year plans per WW2), capitalize on their power, and then wane. The THYMOS that lead to the rise of the national father, leads the national father to his goal, and then he runs out of things to do, and start slowly rotting in his manse as the yes men around him is incapable of giving new THYMOS to keep the state functioning.

So the first argument he makes is that he lucked out on publishing it as the USSR collapsed, even supplying a coherent explanation on how it happened.
But the second argument is more interesting.
The second argument deals with the democracies fatal flaw: As it sets in, you get managers. The managers lack thymos. The managers lack a real will, outside of wanting job security and staying in the circle jerk. The managers stay compliant and will do so as nobody is willing to blame each other and do work. And because democracies are inherently stable(basically the thesis), the long term is that everyone gets their share of the pie and things kinda work.
This argument ... with stock trading, stock ownership and being listed on the fortune 500 works. In the end, the person running Blackrock or the Dubai Wealth Fund is a manager and a bureaucrat with little thymos, and the bureaucrat is running the show instead of the stock owner.

But the third argument is a fork of the second
What about the people who WANT? Who has thymos.
Growth will eventually stagnate, as was obvious in the 90sas a big prat of many corporations growth strategies was foreign expansion. This means that there exists less opportunity for the individual with Thymos to engage with capitalism. You might end up with the fact its impossible to gain any form of leadership unless you are in the right part of the circlejerk and 50+.
These people used to go on global shipping fleets, joining the foreign legion, serving in the army, or start enterprises. I guess a few of them can be extreme sport live streamers, but what about the rest of them?
These people will bring chaos, and then die of old age, and then the democracy smooth that over.

The thesis of the argument he makes is that the second and third make a lot of sense.
But a argument that wasn't made:
What happens when the managers and bureaucrat are so entrenched that all they are doing is overring each others asses, as the system they don't fight to protect: it collapses?

I am not sold
But I can see the vision
Anonymous No.24809785 [Report]
>>24802170
>>24802139
No.
The question the book ended up asking, and its right to ask: Is the CCP going to survive the transition to a new leader after Winnie the Pooh?
Are there going to be purges? Civil war? Complete radical changes that lead to social instability for a period?

Meanwhile USA is just one election away from doing a complete 180, which it already did when it elected Trump II. And transition to power to Literal Who Democrat/Republican/Elon is going to work just fine.
That is essentially the core of the argument. The rest of the book is trying to reason and explore why it could work like that.

>>24807076
The incoherent argument Fukushima makes
Is based on how the pension funds work.
If 40% of your stock is from pensions, in what way are you not nationalized indirectly?

It is a very slippery slope argument, because it really is. Your goal once you hit deep enough in the stock market is to stagnate, and provide consistent stock returns.
Which is how a lot of Americans also view nationalization. And as such, the argument is incoherent, because in the authors world view the difference is murky.
Anonymous No.24809824 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
He admitted himself that he was wrong
Anonymous No.24809825 [Report] >>24809861 >>24810091
>>24809763
>The second argument deals with the democracies fatal flaw: As it sets in, you get managers. The managers lack thymos. The managers lack a real will, outside of wanting job security and staying in the circle jerk. The managers stay compliant and will do so as nobody is willing to blame each other and do work. And because democracies are inherently stable(basically the thesis), the long term is that everyone gets their share of the pie and things kinda work.
i'm sorry but i have to interject: fukuyama himself stated that liberal democracies are stable but only because they contain checks and balances that make sure that the boat can't get rocked too suddenly, so to speak. so it isn't that democracies are "stable" on their own, it's because they are simply slow to change or adapt and that's where their general stability comes from
he also correctly identifies internal contradictions within liberal democracy which will be the very thing that bring it down. phenomena like the last man are signs of the end and that punches a hole in his own argument, because how can this be the best possible political system that humans can possess if it keeps failing and the system isn't even the strongest possible example of humans being able to participate politically, which is the claim that underpins his entire thesis? this is a gaping valley in his theory that he never addresses and i'm not sure if it's because he was paid $500,000 to write the book or because he genuinely doesn't know. i think it might be both

so long as china exists and continues to wreck everybody else geopolitically, fukuyama's theory is dead
Anonymous No.24809835 [Report]
Liberalism is the "decay" stage of any civilization
It makes people selfish, lazy and society weak
Rome fell due to liberalism, Greece fell due to liberalism, it's always the end
Just look at us, it's been less than 70 years since we turned fully liberal, and since then:
>Birth rates collapsed to way below replacement
>Economy turned to shit (rich elite owns all, regular people can't afford homes)
>A literal invasion is happening, Westerners are being ethnically replaced in their own homelands
>Belief in the system and its fairness has died completely

Liberalism only causes weakness and decay
Anonymous No.24809854 [Report] >>24810879 >>24810992 >>24812996
No, the successor to liberal democracy is lottocracy. gives even more power to the oligarchy while appearing to be more "representative" because the legislature isn't just made up of wealthy lawyers
Anonymous No.24809861 [Report] >>24809885 >>24810154
>>24809825
>because they contain checks and balances that make sure that the boat can't get rocked too suddenly
Yes.
The flaw with that thinking is that there is a lot of institutions that isn't democratic, but do get their mandate from a democratic institution. Which lead to rent seeking middle managers, who is unwilling to do their job.
Which leads to bureaucratic stagnation, a lack of thymos, and a lack of innovation. And rent seeking.

The CCP is in a stage where its enjoying the fact there is such stagnation in the West. Where major industrial giants struggle to sit down and run some Rare Earth mining and refining operation "at cost" is all it would take to stave of most of the Chinese threat of export monopolization.
Or dealing more seriously with issues like ship building.


>so long as china exists and continues to wreck everybody else geopolitically, fukuyama's theory is dead
As said
Will the current CCP survive Xi kicking the bucket?
And if that works out. how will it go for Xi's successors successor? That is the core tenant the book is built on.
Most of the USSR breakout nations stablized very well, while Russia is still a Soviet backwater.
Anonymous No.24809885 [Report] >>24809909
>>24809861
>Most of the USSR breakout nations stablized very well
are you on crack? apart from Poland they're all basket cases
Anonymous No.24809909 [Report]
>>24809885
I take it you won't list them or argue the case?
And since you didn't.... Ukraine did well until 2014, as did Poland and the Baltics. And most of them.
Belorussia and the -stans are the only one that seem to be real shitshows.
Anonymous No.24809992 [Report] >>24810033 >>24811558
>>24795526 (OP)
Liberal democracy is a contradiction in terms, so no, its not sustainable. Either people are free, liberal and can choose for themselves unassaulted by others or they are forced into a democracy of majority rule. Democracy legitimizes even something like gang rape because gang rape is a majority imposing its will on a minority by force.

Better systems exist and are marked by respecting individual free will, choices and their private property. Effectively you need to see each individual person as his own nation state with full autonomy and authority. I therefore think that anarcho capitalism is ideal and its the best system for maximising prosperity, merit (voluntary associations) through liberty.
Anonymous No.24810033 [Report] >>24810040
>>24809992
>Better systems exist and are marked by respecting individual free will, choices and their private property
Which still require the state to be the violence monopoly to ensure that such things are even possible, which means liberalism is not possible

Either every high noble is running around with a small retinue as they travel, or the state has that monopoly which means very different things.
In both cases there is no individual with autonomy or authority.
Even in todays libdems, your rights only exist as far as they can be enforced. This means if you are a clan member or a organized laborer with access to a lawyer trough your union.... that you have significantly better legal protection and enforcement than if you where a simple deadbeat day laborer with little to no network.
Anonymous No.24810040 [Report] >>24810067
>>24810033
The problem is that if the state is the violence monopoly, then nothing is stopping it from using that violence monopoly to subvert private property by taxation, tariffs, bureaucracy, arbitrary laws and theft. So a decentralisation of power is more resilient against exploits.
Anonymous No.24810062 [Report]
>>24798170
huh do you uderstand what you wrote?
Anonymous No.24810067 [Report] >>24810073 >>24810088 >>24811857
>>24810040
Decentralization means if a nigger tries to shank you, your only option might be to shank him back.
Similarly if it takes 2-3 years to settle court cases, it might just be better to shot him, bury him, and forget about it. Same if the police is uncooperative.

It might also mean that if you live downriver from a factory, that you can't legally retaliate unless the states violence monopoly is solid enough.
Or if a wind company setup a windfarm near your cabin area, it might turn out to be produce so much noise that its not usable anymore.
Anonymous No.24810073 [Report]
>>24810067
You would be surprised.
Anonymous No.24810079 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
We do not really live under any meaningful form of liberalism. We live under mass democracy which has for its ideals the ever-increasing recognition of groups and their participation in politics and the continuous increase in quality of life, a mindset which we may have got from the USSR. In short, a buddhist nightmare.
Anonymous No.24810083 [Report]
>>24807346
They did ok for a time, even given their disadvantage. I think most of the german generals wanted to postpone the war.
Anonymous No.24810088 [Report] >>24810115
>>24810067
>From the conservative point of view," writes Robert Nisbet, "the abolition or sharp curtailment of intermediate associations in the social order spelled the creation of the atomized masses on the one hand and, on the other, increasingly centralized forms of political power" ("Conservatism," p. 100). During the Middle Ages, Nisbet explains elsewhere (quoting Pollard's study of Wolsey), power was dilute, not because it was distributed in many hands, but because it was derived from many independent sources. There were the liberties of the church, based on law superior to that of the King; there was the law of nature, graven in the hearts of men and not to be erased by royal writs; and there was the prescription of immemorial local and feudal custom stereotyping a variety of jurisdictions and impeding the operation of a single will. (Community and Power [New York: Oxford University Press, 1962], p. 110)
Anonymous No.24810091 [Report] >>24810140
>>24809825
>isn't even the strongest possible example of humans being able to participate politically
What does this even mean? How do you "participate politically" better?
Anonymous No.24810104 [Report] >>24810117 >>24810611 >>24811558 >>24812697
>>24795526 (OP)
Honestly? Yeah.

It can fight better than the militarists, make more money than the socialists, produce less dysfunctional moral systems than the religious/trads, and doesn't really have any solid ideological competitors.

Ignore this thread. It's mostly just copium from illiberals that can't cope with the fact that they are dysgenic freaks that can't make it in the best system ever created, despite all their privileged births.
Anonymous No.24810115 [Report] >>24810123
>>24810088
As said, monopoly of power. At which case you cite it at patriarchal level, and not individual.
Its a time when a patriarch would need a small army to do travelling. While a farmer could risk getting molested by some tax collectors at the next border.
Anonymous No.24810117 [Report] >>24817830
>>24810104
>dysgenic
>privileged births
What are you even babbling about? If they are dysgenic how can they have "privileged births"?

Also, this is a tangent, but liberals/leftists generally just do not know what privilege means. To them, it's just a meaningless foci for their equally meaningless resentment and gripes. It's meant to paint the people they don't like, opponents, as simultaeneously all-powerful yet also weak, thereby gratifying thwir egotistical cravings. It's a real irony that you thwn say that liberalism (which doesn't really exist anymore) creates moral societies, when all true moral societies are characterized by self-abnegation.
Anonymous No.24810123 [Report] >>24810165
>>24810115
Wow. An actual retard.
Anonymous No.24810140 [Report] >>24810149 >>24810155 >>24810179 >>24811558
>>24810091
fukuyama's entire argument is that liberal democracy is the best system because it fulfills the human desire for recognition by providing its citizens with the highest adequate (moreso than any other system) amount of participation in local politics, i.e. elections
but voting once every few years or even a few times a year obviously isn't the highest possible amount of involvement a person can theoretically have in regards to having their say within their political system so his entire argument is flawed from the beginning
Anonymous No.24810149 [Report] >>24810179
>>24810140
that is to say, it is very possible to develop a socio-political system where the citizenry will have an even higher level of meaningful participation within politics than they would in a liberal democracy
Anonymous No.24810154 [Report] >>24811029
>>24809861
>Will the current CCP survive Xi kicking the bucket?
what makes you think it won't survive?
Anonymous No.24810155 [Report]
>>24810140
I was going to say, because you still have an endless stream of people screaming for more recognition. It's not even what liberalism used to be about. Anyway, I fail to see what is so great about this meaningless craving.
The world truly is a sordid place and not worth fighting for.
Anonymous No.24810165 [Report] >>24810180
>>24810123
And the Internet remains a place where somebody is going to namecall you, because they can't bother to convince themselves or other by arguing their point.

Post chain starts up at a Rothbard quote, the the poster argues for something he fails to comprehend, and then has to resort to namecalling when it turns out he can't refute that decentralization of power is just going to lead to knit groups of patriarchs where their power is limited to the extent of their violence.

Anarcho capitalism can't exist at a fundamental level, because Bezos has to act like a feudal lord in order to enforce his property rights.
And as one works the argument upwards, in a libdem you don't have individual rights either, because the states monopoly of violence means a form of collective bargaining is needed with the juridical system in order to have rights.
Anonymous No.24810179 [Report] >>24810183
>>24810140
>>24810149
but liberal democracy already does provide much higher levels of participation than voting every four years. you can participate in your local micro-politics and run for some kind of council where they decide where in the neighborhood to put a stop sign or whatever. people don't do this because there are alternatives like screeching on social media which are better at providing an illusory feeling of recognition, despite the fact that the guy who decides where the stop sign goes has more real political power than hasan the dogslayer.
Anonymous No.24810180 [Report] >>24810205
>>24810165
Nothing in that guy's post had anything to do with monopoly of power. That's something you tried to force in there, neglecting ideology alltogether.
Anonymous No.24810183 [Report] >>24810212
>>24810179
Not really. Those things evidently to not satisfy most peoples mindless cravings. But satisfying mindless cravings is what modern mass democracy is built upon. You can say "but you can putta the stop sign!" And it would not mean anything to most people. The fact that you have to contend with, instead of shirking from, is that people are not satisfied.
Anonymous No.24810205 [Report]
>>24810180
?
If you or your group don't possess violence, how are you going to get rights or enforce those rights?
And by extension, how do you get rights as a individual for anarcho capitalism? Remember, your group gives you the rights via their violence, not you.
Anonymous No.24810212 [Report] >>24810651
>>24810183
right, but the point is that the system provides the highest POSSIBLE level of participation for large states. there is no way every retard in the country gets a private audience with the president, that's not physically possible. what is physically possible is that every retard in the country can go to his local council and harangue them over stop sign placement. this is the highest level of real political power you could possibly give to all retards. in all other systems it would be lower. and there are absolutely lots of people out there that get satisfaction from enforcing their will in these minor ways (see for example: HOAs).
Anonymous No.24810611 [Report] >>24810670 >>24817830
>>24810104
You are missing the point. The fact that people in liberal democracies are such utter fucking crybabies who hate themselves and their society despite objectively living better than 99% of other people in the world is exactly why liberal democracy isn’t going to last. It doesn’t actually make people content.
Anonymous No.24810651 [Report]
>>24810212
That literally does not matter. The point is that people are still not satisfied with this supposed natural ceiling that you see to their participation. It doesn't help that this thing is inherently subjective. If the people think one thing gives them more participation, then your autism about stop signs will be meaningless
Anonymous No.24810670 [Report] >>24810880
>>24810611
And you are missing the point if you think that this discontent is actually going to lead to anything. Complaining on the internet is not the same as meaningful political change or revolution. At this point in history we are basically post-revolution. The gulf between the interests and wealth of the elite and the common people is larger than ever and yet there’s less challenge to their power than ever. We have completely surrendered any and all attempts to keep our leaders in check and ensure they represent us. If you think that this arrangement contradicts liberalism, then you fail to understand what liberalism is and how it works. It has deliberately made us like this — pathetic, weak, docile and complacent. And it’s working. The whole world is running towards global & technological singularity without stop. Remnant conflicts from the 21st century like Palestine are seen as a burden by the world’s elites and they could care less if Israel just killed them all. I hope I’m wrong, but I can see that we’re in a new age and it’s called the end of history.
Anonymous No.24810879 [Report] >>24810897 >>24810992
>>24809854
>lottocracy
please expand
Anonymous No.24810880 [Report]
>>24810670
no, they COULDN'T care less.
Anonymous No.24810897 [Report] >>24810992
>>24810879
going off this blog https://michaeljhannon.substack.com/p/why-not-lottocracy
each issue is to be solved by a "randomly" selected legislature (of people carefully vetted) who then have the options explained to them by (((experts))) who then ensure that they pick the option desired by the oligarchy (the implementation is then carried out by the same hand-picked "experts")
whereas popular legislatures might conceivably rebel against the oligarchy, this system practically guarantees permanent rule, while taking away the last class (professional legislators) who can conceivably be blamed for the shit state of the country. Under lottocracy only """the people""" as a whole can possibly be blamed for anything, thus there is no impediment to things just getting worse and worse forever.
Anonymous No.24810992 [Report]
>>24810879
>>24809854
>>24810897
>oligarchy
No, the bureaucrats. Which are recruited from Academia or law school.
Which is already a big problem in a libdem:

You get to elect a body based on party orientation, which means quite a few passive circlejerk people get along for the positions. Then they get to work with the department, which is unelected bureaucrats.
In most cases the elected might not have a problem with how something like the Department of War or Department of Transportation is run, so status quo is kept.
>popular legislatures might conceivably rebel against the bureaucracy
Correct. This is one of the core selling points of libdem, especially once you moved from Absolute Monarchy and the succeeding Aristocracies.


But there is one more small thing to mention:
Libdem has gone trough a wave of wanting to nationalize institutions, to wanting to privatize the institutions.
Partial privatization can lead to things like some upperclass nobility suddenly running the entire railroad network, being even more distances from government despite it being a 100% government run affair.
Anonymous No.24811029 [Report] >>24811558
>>24810154
>Iran is crumbling
>China is facing impending population collapse
>Middle East will all succumb to Abraham Accords and cuck to Israel & America
>Maduro on his way out
>Russia too weak to change the world
>MAGA is still for the preservation of the liberal world order despite their proud illiberal methods
>All our technocratic elites who are gaining the most power are Western supremacist Zionists who will grovel to whatever is the ruling party
Literally there is no reason at all to think that liberalism won’t win out in the end. All of our opponents suck ass. There is no alternative. Globohomo WILL succeed.
Anonymous No.24811137 [Report] >>24811253
>>24795679
>AI singularity within the next 5-10 years.
Anonymous No.24811253 [Report] >>24811405 >>24813500
>>24811137
We are going to have AGI and Skynet. Surely we aren't basing our entire global economy right now on a bubble for AI-generated cat videos....
Anonymous No.24811405 [Report]
>>24811253
AI stands for "Actually Indians"
It's a fucking meme
Anonymous No.24811558 [Report] >>24811782 >>24811901
>>24795526 (OP)
>Was he right ?
Not empirically

>Is Liberal Democracy the ultimate Human System
Democracy is what happens when you take cultural aspects out of politics. Liberalism is what happens when cultural elements exalting individuality become core economical and political tenets. Essentially, the notion that individuals have natural rights including property only really makes sense in the context of anglo-saxon exploring the world. Notably, the idea that property rights must be upheld only makes sense when there's enough for everyone, which made sense in a quasi-libertarian expansionnist power like the early USA. The rest is christian prots stuff.

>will we never see something better?
Yeah, probably some form of state-managed capitalism through democracy in the west (aka democratic socialism).

>>24806059
>>24810104
>exporting liberal models is now deemed impossible due to cultural resilience
>capitalism is increasingly being critiqued and is only upheld because "it just works"
>politics become polarized, delving into non-liberal ideologies
>liberal countries stagnate economically while the third world is catching up
>demographies are fucked
>the last man that fukuyama talks about is increasingly becoming reality
lol

>>24810140
>but voting once every few years or even a few times a year obviously isn't the highest possible amount of involvement
A big argument he advances for liberalism is that individual rights also allow for people to express themselves freely. So even if you can't vote, you can still write angry tweets and go protest against immigrants. Meaning you don't have to do the revolution to make things change.

>>24809992
Retard the idea of democracy is that certain things can't be decided individually because they concern us all. The majority has power in this situation only because it has de facto the power to enforce it.

>Democracy legitimizes even something like gang rape
Only if you consent to the democracy in the first place

>anarcho-capitalism
well that explains it...

>>24811029
>Iran is crumbling
get on with your time gramps, now it's afghanistan that represents the religious reaction !

>china's pop
Anon they're 1.5 billion, I think they have a bit of time before they get seriously fucked

>Middle east
Only the oil countries, which are slowling running out of oil too

>Maduro
?

>Russia
Anon they've been engaging in a war with the west through Ukraine and have managed to hold economically, ideologically, militarily and politically. In fact, even if they lost the way, they would probably still come out victorious ideologically.

>MAGA
They absolutely are not what are you even talking about ? Even Drumpf is willing to buy company stocks in order to fully assert his nationalist tendencies

>technocrats will grovel to the ruling party
This hasn't been the case. In fact, it's been quite the opposite

>Literally there is no reason at all to think that liberalism won’t win out in the end.
Refer to the beginning of my post
Anonymous No.24811782 [Report]
>>24811558
>the last man that fukuyama talks about is increasingly becoming reality
That is literally the point of liberalism. It WANTS us to be the last men. Fukuyama's concern was that the last men would eventually want to revolt against their conditions out of boredom, and he claims this is happening with Trump
Anonymous No.24811857 [Report] >>24812725
>>24810067
All of this regularly happens in colonized countries (most of the world) by design because America/UK/China/Russia sets it up that way so it's easier to exploit them. I'm really glad that it's finally coming to you people and your elites are doing it to you (although not to such extent that you're doing it to everyone else).
Anonymous No.24811901 [Report] >>24812924
>>24811558
>the last man that fukuyama talks about is increasingly becoming reality
That is literally the point of liberalism. It WANTS us to be the last men. Fukuyama's concern was that the last men would eventually want to revolt against their conditions out of boredom, and he claims this is happening with Trump
>exporting liberal models is now deemed impossible due to cultural resilience
Doesn't matter if a lot of states aren't nominally liberal as long as they're vassals to America. You don't see America have an issue with military dictatorships or kingdoms like Saudi Arabia so long as they serve this country. And regardless the average young person around the world is absolutely liberalizing to a great degree and embrace English as their lingua franca.
>liberal countries stagnate economically while the third world is catching up
Simply not happening at all unless you consider China "third world"
Anonymous No.24812218 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
Anonymous No.24812237 [Report] >>24812259 >>24812300 >>24812702 >>24812779 >>24815155
>>24795526 (OP)
Imagine being an anti-liberal and seriously coming to the conclusion that the absolute dominance of liberal states in world history in leading humanity towards the height of technological development, economic prosperity, scientific advancements, etc are all just a freak accident of history and have nothing to do with liberal beliefs themselves which are a temporary fad people will move on from. What a stupid fucking belief. Imagine how much peaceful the world would be if browns, thirdies and conservatives simply acknowledged that liberalism is correct and they're better off learning from Voltaire than any priest or despot dictator their admire.
Anonymous No.24812259 [Report] >>24812384
>>24812237
>the absolute dominance of liberal states in world history in leading humanity towards the height of technological development, economic prosperity, scientific advancements, etc are all just a freak accident of history and have nothing to do with liberal beliefs themselves
literally true. 90% of modern life is downstream of the invention of electricity which could just as easily have happened in an absolutist society. read "A Promise Kept By Accident" by David Stove
Anonymous No.24812284 [Report]
what do we think about whole process people's democracy?
Anonymous No.24812300 [Report] >>24812308 >>24812317 >>24812431
>>24812237
Imagine being a libtard in 2025 watching as Western societies are fragmenting and U.S. power begins to wane, not understanding yet that liberals literally just got lucky in history by being the first to enter modernity and have been riding off the success of winning two global wars for the past 80 years
>so then why isn't Russia as powerful considering they also won the war
Because you orchestrated the collapse of their empire with your excellent propaganda skills (liberalism is nothing but propaganda after all) and then looted their country afterwards
>so then why hasn't the collapse happened yet
There doesn't need to be a collapse, all that needs to happen is that you get outpaced by a country that actually gives a fuck about the collective health of their society through technological development, which liberals have spent the past 80 years violently suppressing any sign of. Once that state comes into existence like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union they can effortlessly conquer anyone by virtue of liberal societies being a bunch of worthless fucking retirement homes that produce nothing -- this already happened within living memory you guys! Forget history already?

Fuckyourmama and all his other liberal buddies are in for a rude awakening when China unites with Taiwan and the West allows it because liberal states do not have the leverage or capability to challenge an actual industrial civilization. Our civilizations are designed for porn, McDonalds and worshiping Israel after all
Anonymous No.24812308 [Report]
>>24812300
>by virtue of liberal societies being a bunch of worthless fucking retirement homes that produce nothing
here in australia, about half of all government spending is just for pensions and old age healthcare
it's becoming rather bleak
Anonymous No.24812317 [Report] >>24812436
>>24812300
>Because you orchestrated the collapse of their empire with your excellent propaganda skills (liberalism is nothing but propaganda after all) and then looted their country afterwards
Nigga get the fuck outta here, the vatniks did it to themselves by being a society of retarded gay criminals.
Anonymous No.24812384 [Report] >>24812575
>>24812259
Unable to find this book anywhere online which makes me curious how you're familiar with it
Anonymous No.24812403 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
liberal democracy is just a way to control the plebs that keep the true aristocratic society at the top running
Anonymous No.24812431 [Report]
>>24812300
>Our civilizations are designed for porn, McDonalds and worshiping Israel after all
Anonymous No.24812436 [Report] >>24812566 >>24812762 >>24812802 >>24812899
>>24812317
>the vatniks did it to themselves by being a society of retarded gay criminals.
NTA but exactly, socialism failing under Russia is the fault of subhuman, mongol-rape baby Russians being subhuman mongol-rape babies, not socialism. That socialism took a nation of subhuman mongol-rape baby serfs and turn them into a superpower for some time should scare the shit out of everyone who is drinking the fuckyomomma koolaid still. China's path ahead isn't without its obstacles and the socialist program might get beheaded by AI-singularity/posthumanism shenanigans but its obvious liberal "democratic" capitalism is eating itself alive and is just going to turn into some dystopia kleptocrat civilizational hell.
Anonymous No.24812566 [Report]
>>24812436
>but its obvious liberal "democratic" capitalism is eating itself alive and is just going to turn into some dystopia kleptocrat civilizational hell.
>going to turn into
Anonymous No.24812575 [Report]
>>24812384
it's an essay in the book "On Enlightenment"
Anonymous No.24812697 [Report]
>>24810104
Not sure if boomer or delusional
Anonymous No.24812702 [Report]
>>24812237
It's not the result of liberalism, it's the result of higher IQs in European countries, why do you think Africans never accomplished anything?
Anonymous No.24812725 [Report] >>24813495
>>24811857
Its happening in colonized countries because the colony lords ended up running it like a fief.
The catch is that Spain like Argentina is partially ran like that. Which means no long term effort to rebuild its economy to make it more competitive, only a long term effort to make resource extraction for the upper class more effective.
Anonymous No.24812762 [Report]
>>24812436
>socialism failing under Russia is the fault of subhuman, mongol-rape baby Russians being subhuman mongol-rape babies, not socialism
lmao no, you have the causality backwards. russian socialism failed because it was incredibly dysgenic and it effectively ethnically cleansed everyone EXCEPT the mongol-raped subhuman portion of the population. what do you think happens when the inferior get to destroy anyone who fares better than them via denouncing them as kulaks etc? bolshevism executed/imprisoned/exiled all individuals of worth, with only the docile bug people surviving, and now they literally can't have liberal capitalism even when they try, because it requires traits that have been completely bred out of the russian population, like an internal locus of control. the russian empire still had a chance, but post-bolshevism russia is irreversibly niggerized.

this is incidentally also why western liberal democracies are in crisis: because their elite institutions have been infected by the same commie ideology that gives the inferior leverage to oust the superior via snitching on them for ideological impurity. the end result is positions of power being held by midwit women and faggots who have no qualities other than inoffensiveness and who cannot act decisively or solve real problems. russia, for example, would already be a smoldering crater if nato was run by real men.
Anonymous No.24812779 [Report] >>24812793 >>24813469 >>24814072
>>24812237
Nazi Germany had more scientific and philosophical advancement in 8 years than Europe has had the past 70 years
Anonymous No.24812793 [Report] >>24813156
>>24812779
>biology isn't science bro, it's a vibe! for example, the japanese are our allies now, so they're white. oh we recruited some mongols? that means they are aryan mongols.
brilliant
Anonymous No.24812802 [Report]
>>24812436
And what if the option is that the USSR collapsed, because Stalin purged every single person that wasn't a yes-man?
Its fine if your war buddies are maybe-men, or the decorated general is a no-man, but the rest and the younger?
And then it predictable started collapsing as the peer maybe-men started dying of old age or retiring.
Anonymous No.24812899 [Report]
>>24812436
What if The collapse of the USSR was planned and orchestrated
Anonymous No.24812924 [Report] >>24813867
>>24811901
>That is literally the point of liberalism. It WANTS us to be the last men.
Yes and this is literally what Fukuyama saw as dangerous and potentially negating the liberal order

>Doesn't matter if a lot of states aren't nominally liberal as long as they're vassals to America
It quite literally does. If states are not liberal despite having pressures to be so, then the liberal eschatology is essentially proven wrong. If a country like Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, or China don't become liberal-loving constitutional democracies then the entire myth of liberalism being humanity's telos is proven wrong.
This is also a major flaw within Fukuyama's book. If democracies according to him allow for the expression of man's ""thymos"", it is only because they provide the chance for one's voice to be heard occasionally. But, if authoritarian regimes also allow for people's voice to be heard as long as they don't endanger the regime itself, then the argument of democracy's unique capability falls apart. Besides, empirically, the expression of man's thymos is contingent on his culture. Western individualism pushes him to desire to be recognized , but east-asian confucianism morals on the contrary teaches him that he is illegitimate in holding such desires at the expense of society. Case in point : even though Japan is nominally liberal and multi-party, they've been de facto a one party state for their entire existence.

>And regardless the average young person around the world is absolutely liberalizing
Is that why the average african is turning to Russia ? Or the average chinese holding a major grudge towards the West ? Or perhaps even the average Indian who doesn't hold very favourable views of the west

>Simply not happening
Ah yes, the famous China part of the West and aligning on US interest...
Anonymous No.24812938 [Report]
I don't know who's more stupid, the people who still hold the belief in the end of history or people who believe in the myth of infinite progress.
Anonymous No.24812965 [Report]
John Gray btfo neo-liberal utopianism pretty thoroughly in his short book "Al-Qaeda and What It Means To Be Modern"

Christopher Lasch did a much more thorough job in the 90's
Anonymous No.24812996 [Report]
>>24809854
>successor to liberal democracy is lottocracy
Pedopolis is down the Isthmus of Corinth to the right
Anonymous No.24813134 [Report]
Which way western man
Anonymous No.24813156 [Report] >>24813238 >>24814072
>>24812793
Nazi Germany made massive progress in rocketry, infared technology, medicine, aircraft, automobiles, weaponry, audio & video recording just to name a few things
Europe since WW2 has been stagnant
Anonymous No.24813238 [Report] >>24816541
>>24813156
>Nazi Germany made massive progress in...
so did weimar germany lol. rocketry, quantum and nuclear physics, chemistry etc. von braun got into rocketry because of experimental rocket cars made by opel in the 20s. this has nothing to do with nazism, germany just had an great pool of scientific and engineering talent to work with, a lot of which the nazis mismanaged or drove away.

>Europe since WW2 has been stagnant
sure, because hitler's retardation and its disastrous aftermath forced most of the talent to fuck off to america. the scientific legacy of nazism is the biggest brain drain in history to the point that most 20th century american achievements involve some kind of displaced euro or jew, from the bomb and the moon landing to random things like how the walkie-talkie was invented by a polish guy who was visiting the states when the war broke out and couldn't go home. "nazis did more science than post-nazi europe" is pretty shameless when they are the ones that fucked european science.
Anonymous No.24813469 [Report] >>24814072
>>24812779
If Nazi Germany existed today with the exact same 20th century technology, it would actually be able to conquer Europe even more easily than it did in WW2
Anonymous No.24813495 [Report]
>>24812725
The answer is Peronism.
Anonymous No.24813500 [Report] >>24818100
>>24811253
>We are going to have AGI
It depends on how you define it. But in general, the more capable your AI, the more computationally expensive it's going to be, meaning an "AGI" is still going to be restricted to limited applications.
Anonymous No.24813867 [Report]
>>24812924
America still mogs China. Cry about it commie
Anonymous No.24814072 [Report] >>24814309 >>24815185
>>24796017
So it is somehow possible to built up the muscles of a man who is starving to death. Ah.

>>24812779
>philosophical advancement in 8 years
No, it did not.
>>24813156
>since WW2 has been stagnant
This is caused by the corpo-state. Tesla's inventions were stolen and hidden (Trump's uncle and others made money off of them) and Red Scare II birthed the Jason Group and legislation to stop any actual advances in technology. You run an invention by the patent office and if the govt finds you've rediscovered fusion or FTL travel etc. you are told to never develop it. They will kill you if you do.
>>24813469
Iron Sky fantasy bullshit. At what point? Who allies with who?
Anonymous No.24814309 [Report] >>24814805 >>24815133 >>24815258
>>24814072
Tell me what European country today besides Russia could possibly resist an industrial superpower?
Anonymous No.24814805 [Report] >>24815161
>>24814309
maybe france
Anonymous No.24815133 [Report] >>24815166
>>24814309
>Tell me what European country today besides Russia could possibly resist an industrial superpower?
France and UK have nukes.
Anonymous No.24815155 [Report]
>>24812237
Liberalism is so effective at ensuring developments, yet it is incapable of actually letting its populace benefit from the developments, displaying a total incapability of actual efficient allocation. Half the developments are practically abuses that make everyone fat and retarded.
Anonymous No.24815161 [Report] >>24815195 >>24815260
>>24814805
they just had alll their crown jewels stolen. so sad
Anonymous No.24815166 [Report]
>>24815133
>have nukes.
they can't even reliably launch them
Anonymous No.24815185 [Report] >>24815557
>>24814072
>you are told to never develop it. They will kill you if you do.
This anon knows. What does one do though? What if one wants to build anti gravity devices?
Anonymous No.24815195 [Report]
>>24815161
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO
Anonymous No.24815203 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
No!
Anonymous No.24815213 [Report]
>>24807107
Western civilization is (read: was) superior to others until democracy and liberallism castrated it. We need to return to absolute monarchies under strong leaders.

Other civilizations don't care about their history. Yes, many have a rich oral tradition, but nothing like actual, formal history like the Weat has.
Anonymous No.24815258 [Report] >>24816259
>>24814309
>an industrial superpower?
nazi germany wasn't even an industrial superpower during ww2 let alone today. they were being outproduced by the us, uk and russia individually at the height of the conflict. go read up on how speer was trying to reform their shitshow industry mid-war. if nazi germany magically appeared on a 2025 map of europe they'd fail the invasion of poland. they'd cross the border and get smoked instantly by all the american hardware the polish have been buying up like crazy because they're afraid of putin.
Anonymous No.24815260 [Report]
>>24815161
and in recent years, intruders have walked through restricted areas of the white house unhindered and russia's most valuable factories are being blown up by little vehicles launched from 1,500km away
shit happens
Anonymous No.24815301 [Report] >>24815313 >>24815409 >>24815946
to the people who think that western liberal democracies are NOT in decline, let me ask you this: when were the last three times you read a piece of news that was objectively, overwhelmingly positive for people living in the west?
Anonymous No.24815313 [Report]
>>24815301
>when were the last three times you read a piece of news that was objectively, overwhelmingly positive for people living in the west?
Anonymous No.24815409 [Report]
>>24815301
>when were the last three times you read a piece of news that was objectively, overwhelmingly positive for people living in the west
Well anon you see, liberal democracy dictates that things that sell are the only things that should proliferate, and it was conclusively proven on multiple occasions that news that don't inspire either anxiety or sexual frustration in the recipient don't sell for shit.

Therefore liberal democracy directly works to build a media sphere where 100% of news concerns either imminent immanetization of the eschaton or someone having sex (consent optional) while you don't. If a report don't drive you to buy antidepressants it has no purpose for existence. Therefore news that are objectively, overwhelmingly positive for people living in the west just cannot happen in liberal democratic west.
Anonymous No.24815557 [Report]
>>24815185
You have to take your ideas to Chyna or Nor Korea.
Anonymous No.24815605 [Report]
>>24795526 (OP)
He was right in the sense that he wrote the right book at the right time, to hit the Zeitgeist and make him famous.
It seems to me like this is what philosophy/history/economics is all about. Saying things people want to say, with nice sounding rationalizations.
Anonymous No.24815617 [Report] >>24815621
>>24795674
nta, but fertility is not distributed evenly. The childless cosmopolitan wine aunts will die out, the christian households will rise and prosper.
Anonymous No.24815621 [Report] >>24815657 >>24815670
>>24815617
Christian households are the literal source of childless cosmopolitan wine aunts tho. That's teh whole problem.
Anonymous No.24815657 [Report]
>>24815621
I know it's purely anecdotal but I believe this. On the flip side, I do get the sense that right-wing types here tend not to be (or at least have begun as) rural, God-and-country types, but disaffecteds who grew up in urban areas reacting against the cultural currents there. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
Anonymous No.24815670 [Report] >>24816510
>>24815621
well yes, because the christian girls are falling for the lofty promises of the capitalist class. However, this only works for so long as the economy is prosperous.
When the wine aunts will be collecting bottles, rather than flying on vacation, how many christian girls will want to follow this role model?
Anonymous No.24815946 [Report] >>24815947 >>24815982 >>24816515
>>24815301
> when were the last three times you read a piece of news that was objectively, overwhelmingly positive for people living in the west?
Anonymous No.24815947 [Report]
>>24815946
kej
Anonymous No.24815953 [Report]
I've been gone from /lit/ for like 2 years. I come back and you guys are having the exact same threads.
Anonymous No.24815955 [Report] >>24816126
The entire post-WW2 order was built to destroy collectivism and absorb all meaningful opposition to the System
It's going to collapse, but it won't be like in the movies, it will just be a slow decay, people will get even more selfish and individualistic, culture will get more degenerate, wealth inequalities will get worse and we'll slowly lose all our rights
All this is happening because they're terrified of Whites forming some sort of collective identity again after WW2
Anonymous No.24815957 [Report] >>24815961 >>24815975
>>24795640
America was a liberal society from its founding. To say America in 1800 was illiberal is simply absurd
Anonymous No.24815961 [Report] >>24815975 >>24815979 >>24816000
>>24815957
>America was a liberal society from its founding.
*Libertarian*
Anonymous No.24815975 [Report] >>24815980 >>24817354
>>24815957
>>24815961
Chattel slavery, well-known liberal/libertarian ideal
Anonymous No.24815979 [Report] >>24815984
>>24815961
No. The Founders were not "libertarian" as the term is construed today. They believed in liberal democracy, as Fukashima used the term in his book. What contemporary libertarians do not understand is that the limits the Founders envisioned on the federal government are not the same limit as they had on the states. The 14th amendment "incorporated" the Bill of Rights into the states, which is what has given America its creeping libertarian ethos.
Anonymous No.24815980 [Report]
>>24815975
Yes. Liberal societies have practiced slavery. Those are not mutually exclusive.
Anonymous No.24815982 [Report]
>>24815946
oh my god, i just realized something. as muslims take over europe all the jews are going to go to poland. it's all happening again
Anonymous No.24815984 [Report] >>24816069
>>24815979
>They believed in liberal democracy
By that day's standards, yes
They would be considered fascist nazis by current-day liberals
Anonymous No.24816000 [Report]
>>24815961
You Americans have a weird notation. In Europe "liberalism" is not about woke shit but about individual, negative rights, either guaranteed by the state or the community, which is often associated with limited government ideas. "Libertarianism" goes one step beyond and pursues the eradication of the state or chopping it to a minimal extent, because it is thought to be immoral and illegitimate to the root, there can't possibly be a state small enough to be good under a libertarian perspective, even with separation of powers, constitutions, or whatever. Also, libertarianism can be considered right leaning if it's simultaneously liberal and left leaning if it isn't liberal, that is to say, when a self proclaimed libertarian's ethical approach is more about hedonism and/or positive and collective rights rather than negative rights.

The American founding fathers were non libertarian liberals in my opinion.
Anonymous No.24816069 [Report] >>24817837
>>24815984
Not by a functioning adult. They would be seen for what they were. It was a Republic then.
Today we have a plutocracy but with all the trappings of a fascist regime. The CIA are playing with this, testing the population every step of the way. The censorious "left" and "right", the fools who just accept the constant surveillance, the forever wars. They're increasingly easy to control and make fight one another nowadays because of the increased autism (Tylenol, Hep B shots, glyphosate, etc. all done on purpose), not to forget the screen time of all these people taking in hours and hours of propaganda.
I don't care if you don't think that's fascism, it is controlled by a shadow cabal of SS (secret service) agents
Anonymous No.24816126 [Report] >>24816134 >>24816525
>>24815955
>All this is happening because they're terrified of Whites forming some sort of collective identity again after WW2
That's one component but not the only one. In general liberalism just needs to suppress ANY kind of collective organization out of fear that individualism/capitalists will be diminished. It has done this to the point of de-industrializing the West and demonizing its historical peak at the 1950s-60s as a backwards era.
Anonymous No.24816134 [Report]
>>24816126
>In general liberalism just needs to suppress ANY kind of collective organization out of fear that individualism/capitalists will be diminished
There have been zero attempts to suppress Black Identity, Asian Identity, any sorts of collectivist LGBT groups or even open Leftist anti-government groups
The System knows those things aren't existential threats to it, and will let them flourish even if it causes terror & suffering on the general population
The Liberal World Order only genuinely fears one thing, and that's Whites Collectivizing
Anonymous No.24816259 [Report] >>24816478
>>24815258
pure cope
Anonymous No.24816478 [Report]
>>24816259
says the delusional naziboo that thinks ww2 weaponry can do anything to an abrams tank or an f35
Anonymous No.24816510 [Report]
>>24815670
>When the wine aunts will be collecting bottle
if they are collecting bottles then so are the men and nobody is getting married or having children
Anonymous No.24816515 [Report]
>>24815946
>this is happening because muslims are rapidly becoming a large portion of the population
like i said
Anonymous No.24816525 [Report] >>24816546 >>24816624 >>24816740 >>24816750 >>24816793 >>24816866
>>24816126
This is why I'm so unconvinced by any critique of liberalism. Yes you're right, the West did indeed do those things. And yet here we are in our post-industrial and individualistic era as the greatest countries on earth, still. No one even comes close. A fifth of American households are millionaires. All these issues you people keep bringing up about why liberalism is bad relies on your own personal eschatology where liberalism suddenly collapses one day, clearly inherited from the Marxist premonitions of global revolution and capitalist breakdown that obviously never happened and never will. How do you reconcile the fact that everything you fags blame liberalism for doing are exactly the same things which make liberal countries the greatest in the world? Why is something like the LGBT or diversity so abominable if they demonstrably contribute to the most powerful and prosperous societies on earth? It's not fucking hard to figure out that a country being liberal = good
Anonymous No.24816541 [Report] >>24816611
>>24813238
you can't just say that the nazis destroyed europe's scientific community or something and that's why european science has been in a slump ever since world war two
what did they destroy? why haven't there been many meaningful scientific achievements since then?
Anonymous No.24816546 [Report] >>24816570
>>24816525
Anonymous No.24816570 [Report] >>24816759
>>24816546
These are nonsense polls and even if true those Americans would still be living better than 99% of other people in the world.
Anonymous No.24816611 [Report] >>24816761 >>24816767
>>24816541
yes i can, because that's what happened. what do you not understand? all kinds of achievements were made by europeans, you just think of them as american achievements because they happened in america, where those people were driven by hitler's destruction of europe. remember how the first man on the moon is american but the guy who put him there is a german immigrant? he could have put a german on the moon, launching from germany, if not for the catastrophe of nazism.
Anonymous No.24816624 [Report]
>>24816525
America is the center of an empire (the so called "West"). The reason it's still able to thrive is thanks to sucking wealth from it's client states.
And looks at those client states.
Japan, France, UK, Italy, Germany.

Are they thriving? Compare to 30 years ago.
What happen when those become so shriveled that can't be cannibalized upon anymore?
Anonymous No.24816740 [Report]
>>24816525
>Why is something like the LGBT or diversity so abominable if they demonstrably contribute to the most powerful and prosperous societies on earth?
they don't "contribute," these societies are prosperous DESPITE those problems, being wealthy enough to take the hit. niggers for example are objectively a drain on US finances, consuming far more in welfare than they produce. faggots and self-castrators are an issue as well, even if they work, since they will be consuming resources in their old age but will not produce offspring whose labor would compensate for it. these countries are powerful and prosperous because they were built by whites, and therefore can afford to magnanimously subsidize the existence of subhumans and the mentally ill, who in the past would have been used for slave labor of thrown off a cliff.
Anonymous No.24816750 [Report] >>24816801
>>24816525
This is a perfect example of the lies the system tells itself. That statistic isn't based on income or cash in the bank; it's based on net worth. This means it includes the massively inflated value of a person's primary home and their inaccessible 401(k) retirement accounts. Due to rampant inflation, a million dollars is not a benchmark for wealth anymore. Being a "millionaire" today often just means you bought a house 20 years ago in a decent suburb and haven't retired yet. It doesn't mean you're rich; it means you're a middle-class homeowner in a system that has devalued its own currency into the ground. These "millionaires" are often still living paycheck-to-paycheck, drowning in property taxes and debt. It's a statistical lie designed to mask the death of the middle class. When the quality of life drops, even a little bit, the millennials and Gen Z demographics will chimp out along with the third worlders you’ve been subsidizing.

This arrogant argument that liberal countries are the greatest is a just a classic case of looking at the scoreboard while the whole stadium with its people are literally on fire. They measure this in GDP and stock market highs (which are down right now unironically) but what about the metrics that actually define a healthy society? like fertility rates, suicide, drug overdoses, and demographics, crime are at all-time highs.Social trust is gone, infrastructure is crumbling, and major cities are descending into crime-ridden decay.
Technology isn't hiding this anymore; it's showing everyone the rot in real-time, unfiltered by the media. The post-war order produced a fat, rich, and comfortable society that is now spiritually empty and actively dying, and it only lasted what, a decade? maybe less?

Maintaining homosexuality and diversity is a civilizational waste of energy that had ruined institutions, marriage, and communities and the market. These are not a cause of strength; they are a symptom of decay you idiot. Powerful empires, once they've conquered their external enemies, turn inward. They lose their sense of purpose and indulge in "luxury beliefs" social experiments and cultural deconstruction that a younger, hungrier society could never afford.
Anonymous No.24816759 [Report]
>>24816570
Anonymous No.24816761 [Report] >>24816767 >>24816770
>>24816611
that doesn't answer my question - what did the nazis destroy?
Anonymous No.24816767 [Report] >>24816786
>>24816611
>>24816761
europeans aren't migrating to the US en masse anymore so where are the european scientific achievements?
Anonymous No.24816770 [Report]
>>24816761
i did. it's "europe"
Anonymous No.24816786 [Report] >>24816794
>>24816767
that's not how anything works. talent leaving for another continent doesn't just rob you of the talent that left, it interrupts the generational transfer of knowledge. you lose the culture, the mentoring that those people would have done etc. the entire process continues someplace else.
Anonymous No.24816793 [Report] >>24816802
>>24816525
>A fifth of American households are millionaires.

what quantitative easing backed asset inflation does to homeowners. a true triumph of liberalism, and it obviously could never have happened in a society where children do not have unlimited access to hormone therapy
Anonymous No.24816794 [Report]
>>24816786
well it's not happening in the US anymore, either
when are you finally going to start blaming the british for starting this problem?
Anonymous No.24816801 [Report] >>24816808 >>24817077 >>24817138 >>24817254 >>24817330 >>24817847
>>24816750
This is again just the same apocalyptic 2 More Weeks eschatology that comes from every critic of liberalism. It's the same shit that has been said for over a century at this point and every time a group of people anticipate the collapse of "bourgeois society" whether it's Marx or Hitler, it never happens. Liberal societies only get richer. Even with all the things you decry as social ills which constitute engines of decay like immigration and the LGBT it's still not enough to even put a dent in the prosperity of these countries compared to the rest of the world. You have no conception of how utterly dysfunctional and worthless most of the world is because you are totally sheltered from that life. You can't even fathom how bad it is in Africa that the continent has seen almost no growth at all in the 21st century, or that a massive country like Egypt with 100 million people can't even build roads properly.

I'll believe in collapse when it happens. Until then I'll continue living in my liberal country, getting pussy and money, and enjoying my life instead of falling into hysteria over a nonexistent Armageddon for the West. If you think this is stupid and naive of me, I fail to see how it's any dumber or more naive than coming to the conclusion that it's a mere accident of history that every country that is a liberal democracy just conveniently happens to be the best countries in the world and liberalism in fact has nothing to do with it -- apparently we just got lucky, like Poland which has only been liberal for 30 years skyrocketing into prosperity immediately after becoming liberal. Merely luck!
Anonymous No.24816802 [Report]
>>24816793
That thing about a large amount of American households being millionaires, that's also true here in Australia and yet so many people are still struggling to simply pay the bills and put food on the table. It doesn't matter if you're a millionaire when everything is so expensive anyway.
Anonymous No.24816808 [Report] >>24816850
>>24816801
China
Anonymous No.24816850 [Report] >>24817304 >>24817327
>>24816808
Formidable but still inferior to the West. They don't even bother exporting their system elsewhere, and likewise no one bothers imitating them because it's so undesirable. Everyone wants to be liberal. Talk to any young person in any other country outside the West and all they tell you is how much they love American culture and free speech and porn, etc.
Anonymous No.24816862 [Report]
>>24798170
>you mean the leftist managerial bureaucratic academic class
No trump, thiel and elon musk are not leftists bud
Anonymous No.24816866 [Report]
>>24816525
>the West
>American households
You can't possibly think that America's wealth is the same as all the other countries of the West.
Anonymous No.24817077 [Report]
>>24816801
>I fail to see how it's any dumber or more naive than coming to the conclusion that it's a mere accident of history that every country that is a liberal democracy just conveniently happens to be the best countries in the world and liberalism in fact has nothing to do with it -- apparently we just got lucky, like Poland which has only been liberal for 30 years skyrocketing into prosperity immediately after becoming liberal.
A lot of the big Western institutional innovations came before the advent of universal suffrage liberal democracy as we understand it. Stuff like Weberian bureaucracies, civic organizations that are not familial or clan-based, scientific and technical orientation, go back much earlier, either to the middle ages, or are even directly attributable to enlightened despots. Liberalism in the Fukuyamist sense only came about in the past two centuries when those institutions that gave the West an edge were already in place. Liberalism is the icing on the civilizational cake, but a cake that's all icing is no cake at all.
Anonymous No.24817138 [Report]
>>24816801
>like China which has only been liberal for 30 years skyrocketing into prosperity immediately after becoming liberal. Merely luck
let me correct that for you, fren
Anonymous No.24817254 [Report] >>24817300 >>24817349 >>24817505
>>24816801
This entire argument is the cope of a historical illiterate. It’s the philosophy of an ignorant person living in a mansion built by his great-grandfather.. Liberalism didn’t built the West. This is fundamentally false. Liberalism didn't build a single institution that made the West great; it’s merely the decorative thing that was made centuries before it arrived. What actually built the West?

> a shared, high-trust ethno-cultural heritage. It’s people are a big factor. Not immigrants, not third worlders, not anything but that people.
>A Christian moral framework that provided social cohesion and a basis for law.
>Classical traditions of Roman law and Greek reason.
>A foundation of scientific and industrial achievement that predates modern social liberalism by generations.

Post- war Liberalism in its current form is a degenerate end-user, not the creator. it is the product of the worst generation of all: The baby boomer. You think because you got yours that everything is ok for everyone? or are you just bullshiting yourself?

Much like the baby boomers, the ideology inherited the most prosperous, cohesive, and powerful civilization in human history and began consuming it. The wealth, peace, and stability you see are the fumes of that inheritance, not the product of the current ideology. It only lasted a fucking decade in the 50s before the 60s deluge destroyed it. You are a faggot confusing the parasite with the host.

The 2 More Weeks shit is also a strawman. The system will not collapse in a single day like in a movie. Collapse is not an event; it's a process. We are living through it right now. Pointing out that it hasn't happened yet is like a cancer patient bragging. The social ills i’ve mentioned, the demographic replacement, the cultural self-hatred, the death of the family, are not "dents." They are the cancer itself. They are the slow, grinding dissolution of the social contract and shared identity that made prosperity possible in the first place. Also, the West isn't failing relative to the third world; it's failing relative to itself. We judge it against the standards of our fathers and grandfathers, and by that measure, it's in a state of managed freefall. Don’t compare the West to the third world ever again. Poland is going to be in free fall too, because you keep using GDP compared to general social ills. The current ‘liberalism’ now? it will destroy them, they just have yet to experience it because they were just freed from the Soviet Union. But it will happen.
Anonymous No.24817300 [Report]
>>24817254
I'm not even from the West, but it's obvious that you guys are just coasting on one thousand years of built up social capital and it annoys me when Westerners (and people from my part of the world too) seem to take it for granted and just assume that what they have is just the "normal" state of things. That people would naturally gravitate to it in the absence of any other countervailing forces.
Anonymous No.24817304 [Report]
>>24816850
have you been living under a rock
Anonymous No.24817327 [Report]
>>24816850
>Everyone wants to be liberal. Talk to any young person in any other country outside the West and all they tell you is how much they love American culture and free speech and porn, etc.
If you're in the developing world and talking to the types of young people who say those things, you are almost certainly talking to someone from a minority, a sizeable minority, perhaps, but not representative of everyone. They might like to be more Western on paper, but they have an exchange student's idea of what the West is like rather than an understanding of how it works at a fundamental level.
And even then, old habits die hard. The great majority of those same young people end up succumbing to the social forces that keep their countries from being truly liberal in the Western sense, even if they might be a little more liberal in terms of social attitudes. Examples that come to mind are rigid hierarchies, superstitious thinking and class snobbery which middle to upper class kids who are otherwise very Westernized still cling to whether conscious of it or not.
>t. lived in MENA for 5 years
Anonymous No.24817330 [Report]
>>24816801
Idk if this person is trolling… but It's genuinely stupid to celebrate wasting the social capital westerners inherited and then call the resulting damage "progress” or dents. The West's actual strength came from deep social trust, cohesion, and solid families not from letting every person do whatever the hell they want. Bragging about being a selfish degenerate isn't a flex; it’s just endorsing a parasitic philosophy that only consumes, never builds, leaving shattered communities and pure social chaos. You are literally tearing down the collective norms that created prosperity, and pretending that funding moral rot and reckless disregard for society is some kind of virtue is the ultimate civilizational self-own.
Anonymous No.24817349 [Report] >>24817414
>>24817254
you didn't hit the nail on the head, you completely smashed the nail all the way through
what have liberal democracies actually given us? what structures and institutions have they actually built?
Anonymous No.24817354 [Report] >>24817375
>>24815975
Libertarians support child labor so it's basically the same thing.
Anonymous No.24817375 [Report] >>24817381
>>24817354
"Libertarians" are nothing but classical liberals, of course they want child labor back.
Real libertarians want freedom
Anonymous No.24817377 [Report] >>24817836
>>24807144
>>24807310
Why do retards say this? Hitler fucked himself by betraying Stalin. The cult of personality you have around this meth addicted loser is baffling. He was wrong about everything.
Anonymous No.24817381 [Report] >>24817389
>>24817375
Libertarians just want smoke weed and let liberals take over everything because they eschew political organization and the need to take power.
They're too autistic to do anything useful.
Anonymous No.24817389 [Report] >>24817872
>>24817381
>Lysander Spooner is just a stoner in his mom's basement.

And about the autism thing. The pharma giants have knowingly been seeding in brain damaging vaccines to increase the autism numbers.
Anonymous No.24817414 [Report]
>>24817349
The civil rights act was the post-wars ‘institution’ which destroyed freedom of association, a pretty basic concept too. The Fukuyama Liberalism is nothing like the Republics elitist, version if you want to get really into it.
Anonymous No.24817431 [Report]
Anonymous No.24817505 [Report] >>24817836 >>24818458
>>24817254
None of those things matter. Other civilizations that had none of them have risen, fallen and are now rising again to preeminence. Western prosperity is great now of course compared to the past (GDP has always grown over time over the long run), so why wouldn't it be better than ever? But it will look minuscule compared to Chinese civilization five hundred years from now. Western decline is ongoing but there is nothing that can be done about it, and Trump is only accelerating it towards collapse.
Anonymous No.24817830 [Report] >>24817846 >>24817913
>>24810117
>f they are dysgenic how can they have "privileged births"?
Because despite how unworthy they are, they are still born with a societal status that lets them rise.

They are from the same society, and the same basic groups, that rule their country. They have access to education, to respect in the workplace if they perform well, and to certain protection from discrimination.

And they still can't make it.

>>24810611
The actual anon here. It's not "people", it's just a minority of losers who are of no consequence in the long run.

Liberalism will just keep winning and the losers on the fringes will keep losing.

>lol
And we will win anyway, because our enemies are infinitely worse.
Anonymous No.24817836 [Report] >>24817842 >>24817852
>>24817505
>But it will look minuscule compared to Chinese civilization five hundred years from now
What makes you think Chinese civilization will even exist 500 years from now? Their population is collapsing, government is a corrupt oligarchy, and everyone around them hates them.

>>24817377
Because their entire moral system is based around opposing progressives and leftists. They have no independent thoughts of their own, they just hate the left and so idolize their favorite historical villain.

That's why they keep losing. The average person looks at them and sees not an actual ideology capable of making a better future, but just condensed seething of losers and low functioning sociopaths.
Anonymous No.24817837 [Report]
>>24816069
>I don't care if you don't think that's fascism, it is controlled by a shadow cabal of SS (secret service) agents
Nah, it's literally the billionaires and high-ranking party officials doing it literally in the open, no shadow cabal needed.
Anonymous No.24817842 [Report] >>24817908
>>24817836
>What makes you think Chinese civilization will even exist 500 years from now? Their population is collapsing, government is a corrupt oligarchy, and everyone around them hates them.
Applies perfectly to the USA as well tho
Anonymous No.24817846 [Report] >>24817908
>>24817830
>Liberalism will just keep winning
Pure delusion
Anonymous No.24817847 [Report] >>24817957
>>24816801
> like Poland which has only been liberal for 30 years skyrocketing into prosperity immediately after becoming liberal. Merely luck!
Anonymous No.24817852 [Report] >>24817854
>>24817836
>their entire moral system is based around opposing progressives and leftists. They have no independent thoughts of their own, they just hate the left and so idolize their favorite historical villain.
As opposed to the left whose entire world view is based around hating white people and endless resentment
Anonymous No.24817854 [Report]
>>24817852
You're not disagreeing with him tho.
Anonymous No.24817872 [Report]
>>24817389
What did Spooner do to prevent the rise of the leftism, government or even stop it?
Nothing. He's was just a virtue signalling retard, no different than Thoreau, who did nothing of note.
Call me when Libertarians accomplish something on the level of Caesar, Mussolini or even Napoleon. Not some faggot preachy bullshit that hippies do.
Anonymous No.24817880 [Report]
Everyone knows who Lenin is. No one even knows who Spooner is outside of a couple of anarchist retards on the internet.
No one has ever cited his works or used his ideas to change the world. He was a grandstanding, worthless faggot anarchist like they all are.
Anonymous No.24817908 [Report] >>24817916 >>24817918 >>24818682
>>24817842
>Applies perfectly to the USA as well tho
The US is perfectly stable economically and can indefinitely replace its population with immigrants- which it has already done multiple times, in much more racist eras.

>>24817846
Wait and watch. You'll die in a more liberal world than you were born in.
Anonymous No.24817913 [Report]
>>24817830
>They are from the same society, and the same basic groups, that rule their country.
Anonymous No.24817915 [Report]
don't reply to the bait, guys
Anonymous No.24817916 [Report]
>>24817908
>The US is perfectly stable economically
Define "perfectly stable economically".

>can indefinitely replace its population with immigrants
Can it tho?
Anonymous No.24817918 [Report]
>>24817908
>You'll die in a more liberal world than you were born in.
And what if he doesn't?
Anonymous No.24817957 [Report] >>24817982 >>24817985 >>24818807 >>24818814
>>24817847
okay, so that's 12 billon from the eu budget. the 2024 gdp of poland was 914 billion. where does the other 900 billion come from? in 1990 it was 65 billion, and then they adopted free market liberalism and they're about to break 1 trillion in 2026. do you think they should have stayed communist and starved?
Anonymous No.24817978 [Report] >>24818050
I have read this thread, and I'm shocked how every single one of you is so incredibly, unapologetically stupid, like really really dark smooth brain stupid, and you are posting all these schizo word vomits thinking your thoughts are intelligent, I can tell you you really think that. Amazing.
Anonymous No.24817982 [Report] >>24818066
>>24817957
>okay, so that's 12 billon from the eu budget. the 2024 gdp of poland was 914 billion. where does the other 900 billion come from?
You have 0 understanding of GDP. For the relevant part, an influx of 12 billlon EUR inevitably causes a many times greater increase in GDP, because those 12 billion appear many times in the GDP calculation. For example, the government spends 12 billion in aid on salaries for school teachers - that's 12 billion in the GDP, those teachers spend that money to buy 12 billion worth groceries - that's 24 billion in the GDP now. But wait, the grocery chains use the profit from selling groceries to service pay interest on their credit (36 billion now), and use their diligence in servicing this credit to extend another credit line for 50 billion, leaving us with 86 billion in GDP from just those 12 billion in aid. Point being that direct influx of wealth can and does have a tremendous effect on an economy's capacity for growth, leading to a windfall many times surpassing the original influx. That's the entire idea this whole "investment" thing, you know, kinda important free market concept, if it rings any bells?

>do you think they should have stayed communist and starved
No, my pint was never that. My point was that Poland adopting a "liberal-democratic" (although most Poles would shit down your throat for their regime being called that, but that like their opinion) policy did not lead to the growth of Polish economy through the efficiency of that policy - it lead to this growth by negotiating investments and aid from the EU. Right now China, Russia and Turkey similarly invest and give aid to numerous poor countries, and those countries also show tremendous economic growth from those investments, many of them dwarfing the growth of Poland. Does the growth of Nigeria and Azerbaijan being greater than that of Poland decisively prove that Poland chose wrong and should've adopted Chinese Communism or I dunno Panturkism? No. The only thing this can ever decide is who has the most money to throw around now, not which system is best at providing economic growth - we know for a solid-ass fact that there is no and can be no one true "correct" approach to building a "proper" economy, there are mathematical proofs for that shit.
Anonymous No.24817985 [Report]
>>24817957
Oh and also you mixed up EUR and USD but that's like mostly irrelevant and sasuga brainlet.
Anonymous No.24818050 [Report] >>24818063
>>24817978
Thank you for your valuable contribution to the thread faggot
Anonymous No.24818063 [Report]
>>24818050
You're most welcome, fagtron.
Anonymous No.24818066 [Report] >>24818093
>>24817982
yes, you pretentious doofus, the whole point of poland's economic transformation was attaining cumulative economic growth by opening itself to the free market, so the presence of foreign investment in no way condradicts the idea that adopting free market liberalism led to their prosperity. "umm excuse me it's not prosperous due to adopting this system, it's prosperous due to what happened as a result of adopting this system." really? that's what you're going with?

also
>"liberal-democratic" (although most Poles would shit down your throat for their regime being called that
you really shouldn't make up fantasies like this about countries you've never been to. "most poles" don't think they live in a democracy? what? "their regime"? are you confusing it with belarus or something?
Anonymous No.24818090 [Report] >>24818135
I'd really like to know what would actually convince some people that the system is decaying, hyper inflation? Civil War?
Anonymous No.24818093 [Report] >>24818261
>>24818066
>so the presence of foreign investment in no way condradicts the idea that adopting free market liberalism led to their prosperity
Anon you were given examples of non-liberal-democratic countries and blocs investing into developing economies. Even fucking Soviets did that.

>most poles" don't think they live in a democracy?
Most Poles think "liberal" is a swear word.
Anonymous No.24818100 [Report]
>>24813500
>the more computationally expensive it's going to be
It will be like the current iteration. Mega-expensive to train at first, then inexpensive to use
Anonymous No.24818135 [Report]
>>24818090
perhaps it's the fact that every single institution is crumbling, every single metric points to a decline in quality everywhere you look and people in general are becoming more apathetic, depressed and incapable of stopping the aforementioned terrible things
Anonymous No.24818261 [Report] >>24818374
>>24818093
>Anon you were given examples of non-liberal-democratic countries and blocs investing into developing economies.
i was not given what i was asking for, which is alternatives for 1990 poland better or at least not obviously worse than joining the liberal-democratic west. they could have been, what, an authoritarian satellite of crypto-communist russian petrocracy? how well is belarus doing these days? are belarussians trying to escape into poland, or the other way around?

>Most Poles think "liberal" is a swear word.
nope, you're totally clueless. we're not talking about american red states. "liberal" is primarily understood economically in poland and europe in general, as in "i want a free market with low taxes." what a pole might swear you out for are social positions like pro-faggotry or pro-brown immigration, for which he'd use a term like "leftie" (lewak, lewactwo), not "liberal."
Anonymous No.24818374 [Report] >>24818511 >>24819337
>>24818261
>- I fail to see how it's any dumber or more naive than coming to the conclusion that it's a mere accident of history that every country that is a liberal democracy just conveniently happens to be the best countries in the world and liberalism in fact has nothing to do with it -- apparently we just got lucky, like Poland which has only been liberal for 30 years skyrocketing into prosperity immediately after becoming liberal. Merely luck!"
>(a proof of Poland recieving enormous economic aid from the EU)
>- Well 12 billion a year is a nothingburger and even if it's not, so what we should've remained commie???
>- No, my point was never that. I am literally pointing out that there are major external factors to this development, while you attributed the growth entirely to the efficiency the inherent "correctness" of the liberal-democratic order.
>- NO NO NO THAT'S THE THING TELL ME IF WE SHOULD HAVE REMAINED COMMUNIST OR NOT HUUUUUH???
You know, what you should have, the communists did not purge you enough.

>inb4 "I am not Polish"
Only Poles are so deeply triggered by the idea that Balcerowicz Plan was perhaps possibly not the greatest thing in the observed universe since the birth of Pilsudski. Even though the entirety of economic academia unanimously agrees that the Polish economic reforms of the 90s were an all-around disaster.

>crypto-communist russian petrocracy
Contemporary Russia is literally more capitalist than Poland, or really any EU country. It has minimal social safety net, a deliberately deregulated market, and tremendous corporate involvement in the state matters, to the point where no line can be drawn between the private and public sectors. Oh, an a fat array of oligarchs, ofc, ruled by the richest of them all. So, I guess your point is it's the "lewak" stuff that made Poland and other "liberal democracies" "prosper", I guess?
Anonymous No.24818458 [Report]
>>24817505
NTA
Because
>You are a faggot confusing the parasite with the host.
Its not suppose to be subtle., and you failed to read exactly that sentence and the structure around it.

At a fundamental level this isn't about China, this is about how we are living in age where we are still looting infrastructure from the pre 1960s.
If you want to tie China into it, you need consider the argument they might as well do the same. What if China stops, and then tries to rent seek its highways and factories and docks while stagnating?
Anonymous No.24818511 [Report] >>24818527 >>24818648
>>24818374
i have no idea what you're even trying to argue at this point. the balcerowicz plan literally worked, it did exactly what it was supposed to do, the intended result literally and objectively has taken place. the plane has landed. where is the disaster? "bro it doesn't count because it involved foreign investment." the plan was literally, explicitly to restructure poland so as to secure foreign investment which would then lead to long-term wealth generation. the wealth has objectively been generated. to a sane person, this would be considered evidence of the soundness of the underlying principles, same as a plane taking off and landing is evidence of the soundness of the principles of aeronautic engineering.

>Contemporary Russia is literally more capitalist
>no line can be drawn between the private and public sectors
"no, you see, the REAL free market is when both the state and the economy are fake and gay and ran by the same handful of ex-kgb agents colluding to steal everything not bolted down while the country deteriorates and the people unironically worship old statues of lenin"

>So, I guess your point is it's the "lewak" stuff that made Poland and other "liberal democracies" "prosper", I guess?
no, it's actually: freedom of speech, education, legal transparency, democratic elections, tripartite government with an independent judiciary and so on, all of which enable the existence of a successful free market, both in the sense of rendering the country attractive to foreign investment as well as motivating the population to economic activity by providing clear and reliable paths to social advancement for the non-retarded. on the other hand you have the russian path of doubling down on spiritual communism, wherein power is totally arbitrary and opaque and the population can do nothing but deteriorate further into external-locus-of-control subhuman lovecraft fish people, which the kgb agents in charge have no reason to care about because it makes no difference to their private resource extraction schemes if the entire population of miserymansk, fecalnaya oblast drops dead from aids and krokodil
Anonymous No.24818527 [Report] >>24818602
>>24818511
>i have no idea what you're even trying to argue at this point. the balcerowicz plan literally worked
Holy mother of revisionism.

>"bro it doesn't count because it involved foreign investment."
This whole entire argument started with your assertion that the influx of foreign wealth has negligible effect on the economy of Poland.

>fake and gay
A solid academic assessment.

>no, it's actually: freedom of speech, education, legal transparency, democratic elections, tripartite government with an independent judiciary and so on
I thought it was free market.

>no, it's actually: freedom of speech, education, legal transparency, democratic elections, tripartite government with an independent judiciary and so on
>all of which enable the existence of a successful free market
Wuh?

>spiritual communism
Wuh?
Anonymous No.24818602 [Report] >>24818807 >>24818814
>>24818527
>your assertion that the influx of foreign wealth has negligible effect on the economy of Poland.
i have made no such assertion. go ahead, check.

>Wuh?
i explain what i mean directly after but you decided to cut these parts off so you could play stupid. it's our own choice to stay retarded. i made my points to my own satisfaction and won't be typing them again.
Anonymous No.24818610 [Report]
>No Liberal society has ever survived for long throughout all of human history
>"But we are different, we are better! Our system is perfect"
This is how Liberals actually think, and it's pretty crazy to witness
Anonymous No.24818648 [Report] >>24818684
>>24818511
>no, it's actually: freedom of speech
>yada yada
You are confusing cause and effect.
Anonymous No.24818682 [Report]
>>24817908
As they say, "past performance is no indicator of future performance." And the world of the future is a far different one than the world of the past 250 years or so.
Anonymous No.24818684 [Report] >>24818807 >>24818814 >>24819342
>>24818648
nope. you need those things so business can flourish, not the other way around.
Anonymous No.24818807 [Report]
>>24818602
see >>24817957

>>24818684
South Korea which had the boom as a literal military dictatorship, democratized way later and still has numerous issues?
Taiwan, which saw the greatest growth when ruled by a military junta the unelected son of Chiang Kai-shek,?
Singapore?
Saudi Arabia?
Qatar?
Frankist Spain?
Salazar's Potrugal?
The USA which had enslaved and later segregated population for most of it's history?
The People's Republic of Motherfucking China?
Every single European great power - UK, France, Germany, which all achieved their peak wealth and global influence back in the time where they all hanged people for disagreeing with the government in newspapers?
The fucking Poland itself already was the fastest growing economy of the Eastern Bloc in the 1988?
Anonymous No.24818814 [Report] >>24818980 >>24819142
>>24818602
see >>24817957

>>24818684
South Korea which had the boom as a literal military dictatorship, democratized way later and still has numerous issues?
Taiwan, which saw the greatest growth when ruled by a military junta lead by the unelected son of Chiang Kai-shek,?
Singapore?
Saudi Arabia?
Qatar?
Frankist Spain?
Salazar's Potrugal?
The USA which had enslaved and later segregated population for most of it's history?
The People's Republic of Motherfucking China?
Every single European great power - UK, France, Germany, Sweden, Italy, Austria, etc - which all achieved their peak wealth and global influence back in the time where they all hanged people for disagreeing with the government in newspapers?
The fucking Poland itself already was the fastest growing economy of the Eastern Bloc in the 1988?

In fact it's rather challenging to name one country which achieved "freedom of speech, education, legal transparency, democratic elections, tripartite government with an independent judiciary" first, and became wealthy afterwards. Um, the Irish Republic of Offshore Banking, I guess?
Anonymous No.24818980 [Report] >>24819084
>>24818814
>see
i don't see. the assertion isn't there. you've misinterpreted the post and wrote a wall of text about something i didn't say.

>UK, France, Germany, Sweden, Italy, Austria, etc
>achieved "freedom of speech, education, legal transparency, democratic elections, tripartite government with an independent judiciary" first, and became wealthy afterwards
and again you're inventing a strawman assertion. of course they didn't achieve them "first," these ideas all evolved in parallel with the modern market. of course you can be wealthy even today without those, because in the right circumstances you can be wealthy without an efficient free market, for example if you're sitting on bountiful natural resources like saudi arabia or selling your own population as remote slave labor to the west like china. but poland doesn't have a zillion chinks or endless oil, so the one way it can be wealthy is by making itself a place in which business can happen, more so than other competing countries, and everything i listed enables and facilitates business and investment.

if you spent less time showing off your fake erudition and more time thinking this would all be clear to you. if i'm looking for a place to start a business venture, then, everything else being equal, do i pick the place where free courts guarantee i'll be protected from fuckery from both private entities and the state, or the place where i don't have those protections and all my shit can just be stolen? do i pick the place in which free speech allows the free flow of information, including information i need to make business decisions, or the place where a state censorship apparatus keeps vital information out of the media? do i pick the place where i will have access to the educated workforce i need, or the one where... and so on and so forth. you should have been taught about all of this in high school.

>fucking Poland itself already was the fastest growing economy of the Eastern Bloc in the 1988?
holy fucking shit lol, so the way you're going to avoid admitting that poland is in fact a country that
>achieved "freedom of speech, education, legal transparency, democratic elections, tripartite government with an independent judiciary" first, and became wealthy afterwards
is by pretending it was actually already wealthy under communism, in 1988? with all the shortages, worker strikes, food rationing, huge national debt, inflation? the devastating economic crisis that literally caused the collapse of the socialist republic was actually a state of "wealth"? how much of a dishonest rat can you be, dude?
Anonymous No.24819084 [Report] >>24819108
>>24818980
>you've misinterpreted
Please provide the correct interpretation of "so that's 12 billon from the eu budget. the 2024 gdp of poland was 914 billion. where does the other 900 billion come from?"

> for example if you're sitting on bountiful natural resources like saudi arabia...
...but not like Sweden (metals), Norway (gas&oil), France (fucking everything up to Uranium across colonial territories), Poland (Coal), Canda (oil and uranium), Australia (oil& uranium), USA (fucking everything)...

>but poland doesn't have a zillion chinks or endless oil,
It has coal, the second largest amounts produced yearly in the entire Europe, in fact - the crutch that currently holds the entire fucking European energy afloat in the current turbulent times. That's it, that's the whole secret - Poland provides coal energy and raw materials for battery production, EU provides gibs and market access for Polish agriculture, which together provide liquidity to maintain a bloated service economy. That's the "business" that "happens".

> if i'm looking for a place to start a business venture, then, everything else being equal, do i pick the place where...
...there is cheap labor, energy and raw materials, because otherwise the competitor will, and he'll murder you with price dumps. We know that, right? That's why SEA manufactures absolutely fucking everything on this planet right now, while Europe is industrialized.

>fuckery from private entities
You hire a pack of goons from Constellis, formerly Academi, formerly Xe Services, formerly Blackwater. They shoot the ugly people who happen to interfere with your enterprise.

>fuckery from the state
You bribe the state, that's how they eat - on pocket change from your business, which is way cheaper for you than paying first world salaries, taxes and observe safety and health standards.

>do i pick the place in which free speech allows the free flow of information
God, no - that shit sounds like unionizing, and that means expensive labor.
>including information i need to make business decisions
You don't get those through freeze peach - you buy that from people who make business out of getting information. They don't need free speech, as they don't distribute their information widely and publicly - why would anyone do that with information that is valuable?

>do i pick the place where i will have access to the educated workforce i need
There are more educated and employed engineers in Bangladesh than there are across the entire Europe.

>admitting that poland is in fact a country that
Really hitting a nerve here, eh?
Anonymous No.24819108 [Report] >>24819128
>>24819084
ok, so now you're in this full-on npd breakdown mode where you will have a separate micro-freakout about every individual phrase i wrote so you can prove what a smart boy you are. i'm not reading any of this. have a good day.
Anonymous No.24819128 [Report]
>>24819108
>provide arguments with factual backing
>"micro-freakouts"
Sasuga p*lak
Anonymous No.24819142 [Report] >>24819155
>>24818814
The modern libdem can look at the entire statement, you make, and tear it down by merely asking:
Did anybody except the land owners actually benefit?

You end up conflating GDP and PPT.
And by that measure, i'd say the Koreans did very well until Park got assassinated. Because unlike most of the people running the show on that list, Park knew that if success was a guarantee, why bother for "a win more scenario" when you could force wealthy elites to actually compete to failure?
I'd say Worst Korea today is worse than Parks Korea, not because its no longer being ran by a dictator, but because its now being ran like a fief or a colony. And with Korea trying to expand their media globally, its interesting to see the culturally acceptable bleed trough of how they view it.
Anonymous No.24819155 [Report] >>24819161
>>24819142
>Did anybody except the land owners actually benefit?
Does anyone anywhere?
Anonymous No.24819161 [Report] >>24819166
>>24819155
Quite often. Most libdem memes and SWEDEN YES is fundamentally based on that seething Have you considered the fact you might be desensitivseid by living in a shitty and broken society?
Anonymous No.24819166 [Report]
>>24819161
de-what?
Anonymous No.24819177 [Report] >>24819181
Thread is dying, but we genuinely had some decent political discussion here, better than I've ever seen on /pol/
Anonymous No.24819181 [Report] >>24819794
>>24819177
Fukuyama threads can be a shitshow, but it works because discussion's anchored on the book's central thesis.
Anonymous No.24819337 [Report] >>24819352
>>24818374
Has economic "shock therapy" ever worked ANYWHERE?
Anonymous No.24819342 [Report]
>>24818684
And yet China or Saudi Arabia have exactly none of those things.
Anonymous No.24819352 [Report]
>>24819337
It worked perfectly to make some people fuckoff rich. Which is the key, central, primal, fundamental, first priority purpose of any economy.

So yeah it worked perfectly.
Anonymous No.24819794 [Report]
>>24819181
they are always unresolved. no one decides on anything in these threads. i suppose that is a trait of being at the end of history. perpetual purgatory