Thread 24846281

ye olde: >>24835665

Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs).
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/4rAmSZxb

>Archive:
https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads:
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

>Thread Question:
What's your favourite decade of sci-fi?

The Lord of the Rings is not merely a story about good triumphing over evil — it is a theological fever dream of racial purification masquerading as high fantasy. Beneath the pastoral pipe-weed and the quaint Shire cheer lies a myth of moral and racial hygiene so absolute that it annihilates nuance itself. Tolkien’s world is divided not by ideology or class, but by blood and essence. Elves are angelic, Men are fallible but redeemable, Dwarves are stubborn craftsmen — and Orcs? Orcs are the damned: industrial, faceless, and irredeemably other.

The orcs are the colonized, the enslaved, the dark-skinned laborers of Middle-earth’s moral economy. Created through torture and corruption — a mythic eugenics parable — they are denied even the possibility of grace. Their every act is wicked by nature, their voices a cacophony, their speech mocked as gibberish. They are the brown masses upon which the shining West defines itself. When the “Free Peoples” march to destroy Sauron, they are not liberating Middle-earth; they are enacting a crusade of cleansing, a pogrom sanctified by divine light.

The destruction of the Ring — the so-called victory of Good — is the moment of absolute spiritual colonization. The Ring, symbol of power, desire, and autonomy, is cast into the fire not to save the world but to reaffirm that no subaltern hand may ever wield mastery. Power itself must be destroyed rather than allowed to fall into the “wrong” hands, meaning of course, the hands of the impure. Frodo’s journey is not redemptive; it is penitential, a pilgrimage of racial purity culminating in the ritual erasure of the very possibility of orcish sovereignty.

And the aftermath? Mordor burns, its peoples slaughtered without mercy. The text offers no mourning, no remembrance, no funerary honor — because in Tolkien’s theology, the orc is not a being but a blasphemy. The “new age” of Men is nothing less than the triumph of a monotheistic, agrarian, Euro-Christian order over the polytheistic, industrial, and “sin-stained” pagan realm. The orcs’ defeat is genocide written as eschatology — the total obliteration of the racialized Other as the final step toward divine harmony.

The world ends in pastoral silence, the machines stopped, the forges quenched, the “monstrous” races vanished. It is the peace of the grave — the dream of a racially and spiritually pure world. And in that silence, one can almost hear the ghosts of the orcs whispering: We were here! You just called it evil.

are all the eragon books good or do they drop off?
just started reading the first book and is pleasantly surprised

MALAZAN IS DOGSHIT

>>24846313
Based

>>24846291
The fist one released when I was in middle school and I enjoyed reading them every release. Can’t say I’m looking to read them again as an adult.

>>24846313
I disagree but let’s move on to another topic. How’s your mother?

>>24846313
filtered

>>24846281 (OP)
SAM

>>24846291
They are derivative slop but they can be enjoyable if you switch your mind off to it. They do improve a bit but not massively.

>>24845931
>YA? But it wasn't told from first-person perspective
what does that have to do with anything
>good half of the words in the books are Jordan describing clothes or the environment with autistic detail
Describing things is not a criteria. Not only that, I didn’t even notice the descriptions being excessive. Redwall describes food in autistic detail and it is made of children (though Redwall was actually a good YA book)
>You can call it derivative or boring
Yes
>hardly YA
It’s literally teen angst chosen one but also your teen angst friends are also powerful chosen ones complete with push pull teen romance and does (s)he like me omg and also your whole small town is secretly badass and your dad was a master swordsman and I just don’t care. If it’s not made for children then that’s a major fuckup because there is no subject I could care less about than teenagers trying to figure out how to talk to girls.

>>24846281 (OP)
what’s that hook thing on the spas 12?

>>24846291
Theyre books for children, do you enjoy reading YA? If you do youll enjoy them.

>>24846384
I'm still reading the first book (19/24). I pretty much enjoy it
It's a fun and easy (compared to the main ten and those Tiste books) read so far. The Teblor POV is very good
The new marines are funny, though some of the jokes didn't land on me
New lore on the Jheck. A brief glimpse of Icarium's new warren. Also, new gods
Sometimes he went a bit too far with the fanservice imo but ehh some may enjoy it
I haven't got to the war stuff yet, but it's SE's strong point so I don't think it will disappoint me
the book is also self-contained. So far there is only one "the fuck does that even mean" scene

I like D&D novels

>>24846387
folding stock

>>24846291
I reread them ahead of the new one (Murtagh) last year and the first two were still comfy and fun slop. The third and fourth one made me want to kms with how atrociously bad and bloated they were. Murtagh was shit as well, had to force myself to finish it.

fantasy for this feel?

Im not enjoying this book. Im at page 200 and almost nothing has happened and he could have easily summarised those 200 pages in around 40. Are all Iain M Bank's books as boring and disorganised as this one?

>>24846313
It's worse than dogshit.

>>24846481
Ok so Iain M Banks 'scifis' are mostly an excerise in world building with a bit of character development, and he does tend to meander a bit. Also I have a feeling that his later book were edited a lot less. Consider Phlebas and Player of Games most likely had editors that chopped off a lot of the chaff, and The Algebraist was written on the cusp of this stopping. If you want to continue I think the Algebraist picks up about half way through if I recall. The needle like ships which mechanically compact down with crew safely inside to traverse wormholes a few metres across, and the ensuing chaos when they arrive is a memorable moment.

I finished A Night in the Lonesome October. Lots of fun and lots of references to uncover, as expected of Zelazny, although it made me realise that reading one chapter a day is really not for me. I really enjoyed Snuff as our POV, especially when he tried to pretend he was a dumb dog or discovered incredible human tricks like opening doors (like a dumb dog). The Great Detective was an unexpected favourite as well, seeing how I never cared about Holmes.
I enjoyed the chapter about Snuff's kidnapping and the one featuring Kadath the best. Great way of combining dark comedy with genuine tense moments and a dash of the surreal. The ending felt a bit abrupt, but it was worth it for the dumb pun.

>>24846655
Im halfway through so I might as well continue. His prose isnt bad at all, and he is quite funny but the book could have benefited from a good editor.

Any recommendations for books like Reverend Insanity?

>>24846281 (OP)
the spas 12 is a total piece of shit I don't know why it's so popular

>>24846751
cause it looks cool genius

>>24846856
It looks like the piece of shit it is.

>>24846751
>the spas 12 is a total piece of shit I don't know why it's so popular
Said the RIfag.

Why is wng being repeatedly nuked?

>>24846913
Probably some new janny going above and beyond for their pay, or they really hate webnovels for done reason

>>24846700
I finished it yesterday too! It will be my go to yearly October read.

>>24846481
if you can't make it through the algebraist of all things, you just shouldn't be reading. shouldn't be allowed to read. or do much of anything.

>>24847021
>Probably some new janny going above and beyond for their pay
How much do they get paid?

What am I in for? I hear from the ether that it's peak modern fantasy. Whatever '" peak modern fantasy written post 2010s" means. I take that with a handful of salt.

>>24847043
0 dollars

>>24847045
>peak modern fantasy written post 2010s" means.

trash. it means trash.

>>24846289
orcs are supposed to be asians

>>24846289
imagine publicly identifying yourself as an orc

>>24847028
Its Banks' worst book. 500 pages could have been summarized into 50.

>>24847045
>>24847050
is it pozzed?

>>24847144
It is Banks' best book by a longshot.

>>24846289
Are the Orcs meant to be German, because there is nothing industrious about blacks or browns...

>>24847049
what is that in pesos

>>24846481
>Im at page 200 and almost nothing has happened
Are you me? The only SF book by him I liked was Feersum Endjinn although I skipped the TXT chapters.
Anyway, Brits can't write space opera and Banks is a good example of it.

>>24846655
>Consider Phlebas and Player of Games most likely had editors that chopped off a lot of the chaff
>mfw those two books already had a lot of chaff

>>24847189
While I agree with you on The Algebraist being trash, I think some British SF authors cab write decent space opera , e.g. Reynolds and Adam Roberts.

>>24847191
Should The Culture novels be read in order of publication? Ive been told you can start anywhere with them and theyre not really related.

>>24847237
I haven't read them and I don't think I'll like them. Stephen Baxter I want to read, since he's a disciple of Arthur C. Clarke and that makes me hopeful.

>>24847243
No idea, but do that just in case.

Hey again /sffg/. Been out a while. What's new with you?
You all up on the Feral Historian? Really love his takes.

>>24847272
Ron Howard?

Is it worth the read?

>>24847315
Never heard of it. Hope this helps.

>>24847315
((Silverberg)) Is generally really good. And he's written like 3 great sff

>>24847152
>containment thread for litrpg indian botnet posts totally irrelevant to a dead board and a dead medium
>thread regulars read at a 5th grade level

checks out, but sometimes I forget.

>>24846374
That guy doesn't know what YA is, but neither do you. It's really telling that you can read 2 books of Wheel of Time and the only thing you take away from it is "angst" and "teen romance" when 90% of the book is adventure.

>>24847315
dont know but the cover looks kino

>>24847315
Overrated and is only famous because he's jewish.

>>24847315
It's great, short and pyschedelic but it doesn't go totally off the deep end like his Son of Man

Anyone read his new novella?

>>24846313
TRVKE. It's entirely a vehicle for 1) the author's trash D&D setting all his friends were obviously tired of hearing about and 2) his fat fetish.

>>24846289
>Tolkien’s world is divided not by ideology or class, but by blood and essence.
Just like real life, you fucking retarded communist.

>>24847417
>it’s adventure
For children.

>>24847514
https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24767428#p24774827

>>24847315
1960s and 1970s Silverberg is great.

>>24846913
>mod deleting generals
He'll probably lose his mod status for actually enforcing quality on this website. Like modcat. If only he'd do the same to /sffg/.

>>24846913
One spamtranny from here started creating duplicate threads so now janny is banning them on sight

>>24847810
>enforcing quality
Frog posts still stay up. You have to be kidding me.

Have you considered Red Rising?

>>24847514
Just finished it. Liked it a lot. But I'm a sucker for feudal future/ancient relics.

>>24848534
WHAT'S IN THE BOX?!

>>24848568
https://youtu.be/Rt0spqQtMKg

>>24847315
kino

I always see this guy in the b section on used book stores while I look Bakker stuff. Is his stuff any good?

>>24846418
same

>>24846387
>A unique feature of the folding-stock variants is the butt hook. With the stock extended, the hook can be pushed in and turned 90 degrees to the left or right, to fit under the user's forearm. This is to enable the shotgun to be fired with one hand; e.g. while abseiling/rappelling, or from a vehicle window while driving. The hook can be released from the buttplate completely by turning 180 degrees.
it's a pistol brace

I’m almost done writing my first novel and my biggest fear is that when it’s done, and out in the world, nobody will care.

>>24849087
>writing for others and commercial success/recognition
ngmi

>>24848246
Kys

I finished Dogsbody. It was all right, definitely a children's book, so not for me. It started off strong and the beginning where we see the world through dog eyes was interesting and touching, but then the story lost its charm to me and I can't even tell why. While it did touch on some serious topics, I feel that it was limited by its intended readership, so the writer couldn't really explore them as they deserved to be.
I didn't really care about those topics myself, but enjoyed the concept of the luminaries, their relation to Earth, the nature-mythology connection. Pity it was underused, but then again, the focus was on something else. Who knows, maybe I would have enjoyed it more if I were younger.

Looking for some good short story collection recommendations. Fantasy and Scfi

>>24849311
Arcanum Unbounded
By Brandon "Lord Ruler" Sandersson

>>24849311
The Cosmere by Brandon Sanderson(PBUH).

>>24849311
Picrel is kino scifi, all short stories.

>>24849087
You shouldn't worry about that - it's almost assuredly the case. Unless you're incredibly lucky, your first book will launch to only a handful of readers, even if you do all the marketing right. If you do it right, the next one will launch to more, and the one after that even more, and your backbook will grow in popularity with each release as well.

You'll likely never make more than pocket change with it, even if traditionally published.

>>24848907
Not sure if the author is a man or a woman.

>>24849311
pick up anything edited by Gardner Dozois with the word "best" in the title and you're probably in for kino

>>24846289
One of the most ringing endorsements of Tolkien ever written. Let us not forget that in his much-vaunted response to Nazi Germany, his FIRST action was to scrupulously deny Jewish ancestry before protesting the question having ever been asked.

Tolkien truly was the Sam Hyde of the 20th century, complete with developing a secret language only he and his select few friends could speak.

>>24846289
Any books where orcs/orc-like creatures rape whitx women? Looking for a new book to goon to

Is it weird to want to put science (not like twenty page long explanations of how elf sperm is different than human sperm), but stuff where your noggin might jog for a second, in fantasy?

>>24849984
Supplementary question to this one, any books where male humans wrestle and dominate orc women who are bigger than them? Bonus points if they are short kings.

Should I give Tawny Man a shot if I enjoyed most of the Farseer trilogy but hated the ending?

>>24849984
Mary Gentle's Grunts has orcs stealing cursed weapons from a dead dragon's horde. The curse turns the thieves into the people the dragon stole the weapons from. The weapons were stolen from the United States Marine Corps. The orcs proceed to rape every elf and halfling woman and child they encounter, as the story spirals out of control and peters out most unsatisfyingly, but you do get your cuck fantasy, so don't complain to me about the rest of it.

>>24850055
I'd say so but I liked the whole Fitz series. The last trilogy is a bit shit though

>>24850074
Elves are immortal Aryan warriors, one should be worth ten or fifteen piggers in a fair fight.

Just finished this book, only took about 2 or so hours. I enjoyed the imagery of the mythological creatures and how it intertwined with the characters and all, but it wasn't my thing. Good short read though.

>>24850424
movie is cool check it out. Especially the effects and yellow face. Was same guys that did the Star Wars effects a few years later.

>>24849311
The Martian Chronicles are great if you've never read it.

>>24850423
I hope he doesn't.

Why do I never see /sffg/ talk about Weis+Hickman? Are they really that obscure?

>>24850423
This was the comfiest scifi novel I've read in a very long time.

>>24850457
I've read the Bronze Canticles by Tracy and Laura Hickman. It was a long time ago, now. I thought it was very cool to tell a story across 3 different worlds which were layered over one another.

>>24847532
Most of his readership, which numbers in the millions, are adults who read him as adults. His books are also marketed to adults. So you're wrong in every sense, but undoubtedly in the character of this place you will insist you are correct regardless of objective reality. You call his books childish based on nothing but your own warped view of maturity which is likely so laughable you will not dare articulate it here.

>>24850457
If it's not on tik-tok it doesn't get discusses.

>>24850423
what is there left to write about the thing?

>>24850479
Ummm... it's literally absurdly, insanely massive. You could make any story about exploring it and finding weird, interesting shit on it.

>>24850487
don't make me tap the sign

>>24850495
What sign? There is no sign.

>>24850503
>>24850487
someday I'll finally get around to writing my magnum opus about a company of batshit crazy mercenaries exploring a ringworld built by aboleths.

>>24850217
tfw ten elves, who have collectively trained for like three hundred years, die to a single musket shot

>>24850423
Niven is still alive? Holy shit. I read that one where the guy gets put in a new body and shot off into space but intentionally fucks up his trajectory, so they Email his manager's soul to him and it ends up possessing the ship and then they crash back on Earth 10 billion years in the future and it's like Lord of the Flies but with more sex.

Thought it was pretty cool, always upset he didn't continue that one.

>>24850531
>D&D slop mentioned
Lame.

>>24850540
Plunging fire wasn't really a thing until cartridge rifles entered the scene, a musket might (rarely) kill two guys standing in a row. Musketeers stood in ranks.

Now while we would assume that an elf with a bow would mog a musketeer absolutely, it would depend, obviously. The duskier and browner the musketeer, the more extreme his mogging would necessarily be. Swarthoids are notoriously inept marksmen, and worse, notoriously prone to panic and flight, because the melanin in their skin seeps into their amygdala and causes increased cortisol release in stressful situations. Ever seen a brown person reload a musket quickly? No of course not, and this is for a good reason.

Orcs, obviously being swarthy and dark in countenance, could not possibly be expected to lay down continuous and effective fire. Especially not against Elves, who are white, and thus emit a racism field that oppresses swarthoids, filling them with a fear of work, and a desire to steal and play loud music.

>>24850551
there are some D&D slop settings capable of hosting kino, but if it's not to your taste I can't say I blame you.

Does Severian's Bizarre Adventure actually get a plot at some point? I'll accept one in the later books if I have to.

Are there good audiobooks that make me feel the same way that hearing Darkest Dungeon Narration does?

>>24850576
Most plebs finish the book and say "THERE WAS NO PLOT WTF"
Real high iq niggas know there was an insane plot there the entire time
Don't be the former but if you are a plotfag there might be little hope

>>24850613
Blood Meridian might be the closest in tone and content. I don't know if anyone has attempted it in the guttural throat-cancer mode of darkest dungeon.

>>24850621
>dude the SUBTEXT
queer response

>>24850576
Maybe the real plot was the stories we told along the way.

>>24850645
It's not subtext. The reason the events aren't super obvious is that Severian is very very oblivious. If you're paying any attention at all it's really clear what's going on, the narrator is just autistic.

>>24850576
>>24850663
Don't get me wrong, the world is interesting, the vibes are on point, and I'm really into it. I'm just past the avern duel and I predicted who the opponent was, but I just expected a normal book.

>>24850669
It's not a normal book. It's more like a puzzle, where you have to take what you've observed throughout the story and use it to fill in the blanks that Severian is too autistic to put together himself. It takes a bit of getting used to but once you actually start realizing what's happening you'll get moments where a bunch of stuff that already happened is recontextualized into something completely different.

You're also very early in, just keep going. I ended up reading the first book three times before I started the second.

>>24850669
>I just expected a normal book
what

>>24850663
It's dishonest literature. I will never understand this fellating of authors who obfuscate the "real story" behind deliberately obtuse and uninteresting dreck. It must be a kind of Stockholm syndrome, where every person who has gone through the intellectual labor of figuring out what the author said then feels obligated to defend the story as an astounding feat of writing to justify the time he wasted on this endeavor. Actually telling people what happened in plain English? Plebeian! Pedestrian! Telling the story through an "unreliable narrator" so you can waste pages upon pages on frivolous nonsense while leaving a trail of breadcrumbs to follow for people so bored with the story they're desperate to eke out any kind of enjoyment from it? Pure genius! Bravo!

>>24850723
The sensation you are experiencing is called "being filtered." We use this term often so you've probably encountered it before, but likely in those contexts you were not filtered, and as such, did not think much of it.

What it means is that the story actually required that you read it, and you were not capable of doing that, so you could not enjoy it properly. Fortunately our friend here appears to have an IQ with three entire digits, and thus likely can, with some scrutiny, read the book. You might find an infusion of ginko biloba and improving your sleep hygeine helpful in improving your short-term memory and unburdoning your higher reasoning abilities, then you would be able to actually read and enjoy books also.

>>24849311
A Second Chance at Eden

>>24849311
Anything by Robert Sheckley, such as "Untouched by Human Hands".

>>24850746
>>The sensation you are experiencing is called "being filtered."
Yes I see this phrase used a lot by people suffering from literary Stockholm syndrome. It's like the braying of a donkey at anyone who tries to coax him out of the rain. HEE-HAW! he cries, stubbornly defending his muddy patch of ground. HEE-HAW.

>>24850669
Maybe Brandon Sanderson would be more to your taste.

>>24850838
You are simply upset that you are not intelligent enough to enjoy the book, sir. For you reading is a painful thing which requires something of you, rather than providing something for you. You imagine having to read a book as being equivalent to being taken hostage, when in fact it is more like a journey or an adventure. This is a problem I have often observed in young children and people of African and Southwest Asian extraction, and I have just the solution for you.

May I recommend GraphicAudio's fine selection of dramatized audiobooks? the Brent Weeks "Night Angel" series has a particularly good one with sound effects and voice actors, and even music! There is no risk of you becoming bored or confused in such a story, though there are literary references therein which may challenge you, such as "Two handfuls of tit" or "A wetboy's life isn't worth shit," I urge you to keep your cellular phone close at hand in case you need to look up a particularly esoteric word.

Moreover, you can listen to them whilst playing Fortnite or Battlefield XIX, or Star Fox 64, to eliminate any possibility of being left with only the chasmic abyss of your inner monologue to entertain you.

>>24850846
before he fell off

>>24850723
puzzles are fun. His books you read multiple times and get something completely new out of it each time. That's amazing and not many authors have or could ever replicate that. That is obviously not going to be for everyone and that's fine. I dislike King, sanderson, etc, but I'm not a hater people can like what they like jk fuck whoever likes that slop

>>24850468
And Harry Potter and Star Wars fans are mostly in their 30s-50s, what’s your point?
> you won’t articulate it here
Anon I’ve already presented my reasoning. Your children’s book sucks so much it’s absolutely unreal. How can you like it? Where is your taste? Where is your self respect? all your little formulaic chosen one characters and their little chosen one town and botched character interactions, and awful character. Who am I supposed to like? Which character do people gravitate towards? They all suck is it Egwain because she is probably the most forced character in the books with no personality other than “no fair me too” I can’t read this filth.
>b-but adventure
Oh wow yeah cursed treasure! and an adopted chosen one secret prince who is called the dragon! Wow! Magic school! WOW! Man holy shit that’s such a good point but I hear me out. What if there were other authors who were good writers with fun characters that had those exact plot points. This series is a mess. It wants to be everything and it does nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Ok but seriously though, what's a good follow up to Reverend Insanity?

>>24851050
Diarrhea

>>24851129
why do you keep posting this? It looks like a screenshot from a bottom of the barrel thing you'd find on f95zone.

>>24851144
Nobody cared about the book until the cover art changed.

>>24851144
spam bot or autism, take your pick

>>24851157
>you're autistic if you want to discuss books that are not AAA traditional-published megapopular bestsellers
About what I expect from the average /lit/ poster.

>>24851166
Nothing wrong with discussing new books. Spamming the same trash in every thread for a year is not.

>>24851254
>new books
???
>is not
Is not what?
??????
newfagGPT acting up

>>24850457
Death gate cycle 9/10
Very engrossing original fantasy

Star of the Guardians 10/10
Excellent space opera that borrows some elements from star wars like "lazer swords". Cool space mercenary shit

Rose of the Prophet 7/10
Surprised this doesn't get talked about more in [current year]. Pretty progressive ideas for the era. Arabian Nights inspired fantasy setting

Darksword 8/10
Coming of age sword and sorcery. Big magic sword. Interesting magic taboo fantasy setting

Sovereign Stone 10/10
Unique magic system. Really engaging tragic story

Dragonvarld 4/10
Dragon human hybrids. Dragon shapeshifters. Dragon sexual assault. Pretty weak

>>24851279
esl?

>>24851279
chiming in to agree you're ESL lol

If you were going to create a four year course of fantasy books/series, what would you put where?

boys are there any scifi books that feature the Third Eye as a major part of the book? or fantasy or thriller. a physical third eye or gland

>>24851414
Year 1
>Bible
>Quran
Year 2
>BOTNS
Year 3 and 4
>Dungeon Crawler Carl

>>24851520
>quran
>fantasy
it is is 100% real history. wash your mouth out with soup.

>>24851050
read ISSTH and LOTM

just picked up The Sword of Shannara for $2 at a thrift store. I vaguely recognized the name (from this thread maybe?) but am otherwise not familiar with it. About to start reading it.
What do I think of it?

>>24851619
It's bad, like shockingly bad for such a famous series. The plot is worse than generic and the writing is even worse and full of lore dumps. But as bad as it is, by some miracle the second book is amazing - the author fixed everything he did wrong. Unfortunately you need to have read the first for it to make sense.

>>24851653
I don't even have the second book so I guess I get the worst of both worlds. I'll see if it's at the library later.

>>24850074
Hot

>buy a book because it’s cheap and description interests me
>look up info about book
>it’s one of the last in a series
Every time.

>>24851619
Could be worse, at least it isn't Sword of Truth. I don't know what the link is between being named Terry and being an insufferable redditor, but there's just too many for it to be coincidence: Brooks, Goodkind, Pratchett, etc.

>>24851301
>Dragon sexual assault
[Desire to know more intensifies]

>>24846289
The worst A.I. slop I've seen this week.

>>24847147
Yes.

>>24847357
Why do you post like you're in a TikTok video's comments?

>>24851817
funnily enough they also had 2 copies of Stone of Tears (second book in that series), but none of the first. otherwise i would've got that too

>>24851889
You dodged a bullet there. Goodkind is every sort of bad it's possible to be: poor writing, incredibly derivative, and far too willing to use his books to preach his shitty opinions. I read all 11 books when I was young and didn't know better than to waste my time on slop; I think it was the first time I'd ever read a novel and thought to myself "holy shit, this is awful."

>>24850457
i'm reading Darksword right now, it's pretty good and the mc is a bitter volcel so the average /sffg/ poster will probably like him

>>24851619
I gave up after about 50 pages because the writing and pacing was so bad. And this was years ago when I had more time and rarely dropped anything.

/wng/ is kill so I am here now

Weekly chapter review

Pale Lights (patreon) : Well , that's not gonna help Myria with her Grasp problems.
Years of the Apocalypse : So I guess plan 9 is to create an antimagic rocket? Also I am starting to think she needs to focus on automaton defence in order to stop the invasion disruptions. She can't be everywhere at once.
Objects in Motion : Good chapter. Yeah Smokeshow , you are defenetly brainwashed to like him.
Player 0.4 : meh , slow chapter.
Apocalypse Reborn : meh , I am not reading this series for serious character action drama.
Zenith of Sorcery : mid chapter

>>24851922
>I think it was the first time I'd ever read a novel and thought to myself "holy shit, this is awful."
ha, I had the same reaction to reading Goodkind. I have read fantasy novels that left me underwhelmed, or bored me, but never before had I read something I found repulsive.

>>24851603
>wash your mouth out with soup.
Tomato soup okay? I'll make a grilled cheese to go with it. Yum.

>>24851047
>And Harry Potter and Star Wars fans are mostly in their 30s-50s, what’s your point?
Harry Potter readers were originally kids, and the books were marketed to kids. Star Wars films were marketed to all audiences, and had fans of all ages. Jordan's audience has always been predominately adult, at no point were his books marketed as young adult and at no point was his audience predominately children.

>suck sucks sucks
Yeah that's about what I expected from you. You don't like prophesy as a concept, I gather, but you can't explain what's wrong with it. You just say it's bad and then expect people to agree with you, apropos of nothing.

>an adopted chosen one secret prince who is called the dragon! Wow! Magic school!
What a string of verbal diarrhea. This makes me now firmly believe you listened to an audio book reading while you were playing video games or something, because this is a totally garbled up version of the plot and shows bizarre preoccupation with broadly generalized descriptions of the plot rather than particulars of the story. It shows a lack of comprehension or retention.

>>24851619
Probably the worst book i've read in current memory. The writing is beyond amateurish and it boggles the mind this was ever published by a professional publisher. There are some unintentionally hilarious moments, like when the main character looks at a fortified stone town and says he prefers the "pregnability" of his home woods, but most of it is just tedious nonsense filled with disjointed adjectives. The plot and the world are bereft of any fantasy whatsoever. The world consists of northland, southland, westland, and eastland, with the evil warlock lord living up north in skull mountain, in the fucking skull kingdom. If this sounds like it could be fun in a classic camp way, you are right, it could. But it isn't, because the author is a teenager still in highschool and this is his very first embarrassing attempt at writing something. At least that's the impression the text gives off, and i will stick to it in an attempt to be generous towards the poor lad.
The sequels are somewhat better, but Brooks' high points will always be other writers' mediocrity, and i don't think he will ever stop writing about people sitting "aboard" horses.
I picked it up because it seemed like one of those popular works that make up the history of fantasy literature, and i have kept at it until the end of, i think, Scions of Shannara. Shockingly underwhelming. Makes it difficult to argue when people claim fantasy fans lack even rudimentary taste in literature.
1/10 bretty pregnable

>>24852049
NTA but WoT is very much YA fantasy. It simply was published before "YA" became an industrial slopmachine concept.

>It shows a lack of comprehension or retention.
Not much to comprehend about WoT tho. It is legitimately a coming of age story for youths, with some will-they-won't-they and BDSM sprinkled on top. The rest is literal padding.

>>24850457
I really liked their older Dragonlance stuff. Chronicles and Legends especially.

>>24846751
>>24846859
you are gay and retarded

>>24851603
BAHAHAHHAHA

>>24852077
I picked up like 10 Dragonlance books at a yard sale for about 5 bucks and I tried reading Dragons of Autumn Twilight about a month ago. I got about halfway before I had to put it down due to just how atrociously bad it was. The characters were stale as shit, plot was just random thing happening into next random thing happening and the writing was just generally dogshit. Do they get better or is it just nostalgia from people reading them as teens? I've got all of Chronicles, Legends and Tales.

>>24852182
It is nostalgia. Hell, I was something like 14 when I tried to read them and I already thought it was retarded. It felt like someone was playing a D&D campaign with a retard DM and writing a let's play as they went along with zero editing, which is probably exactly what happened.

>>24852100
the spas 12 is dogshit, you know it's dogshit, you just want to believe it's good because it's in muh bideo games

>>24852261
it is not "dogshit"
>you just want to believe it's good because it's in muh bideo games
projection of your past thoughts?

>>24851382
>>24851401
newfagGPT still acting up
sad D:

Are there any Fantasy books written by people who are experts, or at least well versed in, any fields like theology, history, folklore etc?

I want some fantasy story that I can learn stuff from.

>>24852575
the lords of the rings

>>24852575
Stuff by Umberto Eco

>>24852575
Malazan was written by an archaeologist and anthropologist and it shows. Large amounts of the text are dedicated to autistic language breakdowns, physiological evolution etc.

>>24851817
>>24851922
>>24852038
NTA, but I'm through the first three books of this series and while it definitely gets derivative and the characters are pretty simplistic, I really didn't see it as an awful read. I found some of the characters to be enjoyable and certainly there were good moments in each book. What parts of it or what themes did you find repulsive or truly awful? Maybe I just didn't pick up on it or something.

>>24852575
SF but Arkady Martine is a PHD historian
i dunno how much you'd learn from Space Aztecs though

>>24852636
The first few books are mostly just bland and derivative. The insufferable preachiness ramps up along the way, it's not until the last 3 or 4 books that he reaches the point where he's beating the audience over the head with it.

It's been long enough that I don't think I'd be giving him a fair shake if I tried to sum up his beliefs. If you keep going with him, report back and let us know what you thought.

You guys read on an ebook or physical copies?

>>24852702
Physical. Ebooks are cringe

>>24852702
Ebook. Physicals are cringe

>>24852702
Both are cringe so I read both.

>>24852702
Ebook for general books, physical for series I love. My kindle has made reading more enjoyable for me. Books are cheap or free and I like the features like the x-ray function or fan dictionaries when reading bigger series.

>>24852702
Audiobooks. Print is cringe

>>24852702
my reading is 90% pirated ebooks 5% library 5% used bookstore.
yes i am a NEET with no money

>>24852702
Ebooks are what work for me. Free, can be acquired almost instantly, don't take space and don't need to worry about damaging them.

>>24852702
Physical so my kids might one day pick them off the shelf.

>>24852702
I only really prefer physical for stuff where there's a reason to go back and forth like non-fic or short story collections.
These days my physical purchases are mainly just books on/of folklore.

>>24852702
I buy every book I read in physical and then I also pirate the ebook and audiobook. I mostly read the physical but I listen to the audiobook when going to the gym and doing chores, and ebook a couple pages in bed after I've put the physical book down and turned off the light or when working at the office and don't have anything to do.

>>24850074
>The orcs proceed to rape every elf and halfling woman and child
Already ordered it on Amazon. I hope the latter one is detailed for my gooning sesh.

>>24852702
i pirate both my books and my video games

>>24852656
Shes a woman and jewish, dont expect to learn anything from her.

>>24852662
I'll go ahead and give the 4th book a go and report back. It'll probably be a bit, though, because I'm on a different book right now.

>>24852916
sure thing cletus

>>24852636
Goodkind is a huge and very vocal fan of Ayn Rand, he's the kind of guy that read Atlas Shrugged in high school and then immediately based his entire personality and worldview around it. SoT is basically a fantasy-themed homage to Rand, with the occasional detour to make sure none of the female characters go unraped.

>>24852924
>t. jamal

>>24852946
>make sure none of the female characters go unraped
Picked up

>>24850423
He literally already wrote the "slice of day-to-day life ringworldside story back in 1996 with Ringworld Throne and it's easily the worst book in the series.

It's all already been done mate.

I lost my copy of Frederik Pohl's Gateway and I had to order another copy from Thriftbooks because it's almost impossible to find a copy of it anywhere other than ebay because it's supposedly out of print and every cunt on ebay of course wants an absurd amount of money for an old paperback scifi novel so it's on backorder and I don't really know if I'll ever actually get it.

NO, there are no ebook versions of it available in my neck of the woods and NO I don't want to pirate it and read it on readera because that's what literal brainlet brownoid APES do.

Suffering. I had started it but never got around to finishing it but it seemed like a GOAT and I wanted to wait until the opportune time to read it so I could savor it.

>>24853023
>NO, there are no ebook versions of it available in my neck of the woods
What do you mean there are no ebook versions of it near you. It's the internet nigga

>>24853030
Look it up. The availability of ebook copies of it have been notoriously spotty for ages because of publisher bullshit.

If I lived in Kangarooland or Bongniggerstan I might be able to acquire a copy via normal channels but alas, I am a burger and it's not available in my region for gay, bullshit kike-ish reasons.

>>24853023
>>24853039
>(((They))) won't sell it to me and I won't get a copy from someone they will sell it to because only brown people don't obey their Jewish overlords
Then I'll guess you'll never read it again. Deal with it.

>>24853054
>UMMMM... TEH JOOS!!!
Niggers like (You) are why the economy keeps collapsing.

>>24853023
Have you tried abebooks or even etsy? There's a store there selling old books and it has a sci-fi and fantasy category.

>>24853023
>NO I don't want to pirate it
Total brainlet take.

>>24853057
I wasn't the one that brought up Jews, retard.

>>24853023
>NO I don't want to pirate it and read it on readera because that's what literal brainlet brownoid APES do.
Congratulations, you played by the rules of a system that was designed from the top down to fuck you.

>>24853067
>>24853076
>t.thief

>>24853081
t.poor

>>24853081
Better than being a cuck.

>Thread will now become/pol/ tier dipshits justifying theft due to some shadowy cabal conspiracy theory
SHUT UP, SHUT THE FUCK UP! STOP IT!! STAY ON TOPIC YOU MOTHERFUCKING MEME-SPEWING RATS!!!

>>24853096
Your fault for moralfagging about piracy, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

>>24853102
Enjoy burning in hell, thief.

I like sci-fi at a surface level but I struggle to identify what would interest me the same way I can for fantasy. Is there a good reference point for identifying which stories are about exotic places, aliens, and space life; and which stories are about humans struggling to make space as boring as possible?

The presence of the author's barely disguised fetish is a plus as long as its not Heinlein's essays on the importance of spanking naughty boys.

Picrel I really like System Shock 2 as a scifi aesthetic.

>>24853119
Scifi is full of interesting concepts and big thinks to life's big philisophical questions. Fantasy is sword slashy comfort slop for brainlets.

>you're not allowed to discuss nonpopular books
>you can only read books through a physical format
>you HAVE to give money to a jewish publishing house to read a dead author's works or you're not allowed to read books
What other middle-of-the-bell-curve forms of rhetoric will normalfags employ?

>>24850074
Love to see this book mentioned. It's a really fucking weird ride, leans in to its intentional scope creep, and comes off as a weird satire of sword & sorcery, epic fantasy, and Vietnam war books. With gratuitous sex and violence.

It's the most masculine book any woman has ever written, to boot. Go in as blind as you can, and just enjoy the ride. Maybe slam a shot every chapter, that'd probably enhance the experience.

>>24853194
Ebooks are far more eco-friendly on both a micro and macro scale, downsize the impact of the middle man, and are the ideal way to consume the written word. They should be purchased only for living authors who self publish, and otherwise should be pirated. You should always leave a rating or review of books you like, somewhere, which is worth more than the $0.30 an author would have put towards offsetting their advance if you choose to buy it.

It was actually the eternal Anglo that designed the system, it was just Jews that perfected it, then handed it off to women and academics to maintain.

>>24853194
Redditrisingtranny BTFO

I finished rereading the Kingkiller books a few hours ago and I can't help but remember over a decade ago when there was still hope for the third book and there wee talks about a TV series, movies and even video games lmao)
The thing that struck me the most from the reread, though, was how weirdly dated these books feel. Rothfuss does a great jow hiding it with nice prose and clever writing, but you can feel the faint stench of millenial irony and archaic r*dditisms coming from underneath. The whole 'deconstructing the classic male hero' and those 'strong, self sufficient, female characters', so typical of the late 10's era. small details, but can really tell the current state of affairs brewing in there

>>24853096
copying is not stealing. and in fact, buying a digital file 'legitimately' never confers ownership either.

>>24852702
>pirate ebooks
>if I like them I buy a physical copy

I won't buy ASOIAF until the whole series is finished though

>>24853126
Stop hogging the lonely space vixens and point me to the skin tight body suits damnit.

>>24853246
There's very little of that in the first book, and the second is such overwhelming redditslop that it would have been instantly recognizable as such even before the existence of reddit.

>>24853318
>ME WANT READ ABOUT SEX! SEEEEEX!
>t.Thirty-something with the mind of a sixteen year old

>>24851144
I read it (and the entire trilogy) earlier this year. It's actually really good, not in an "objectively good" sort of way, but more like "does something weird and different and creative, but still very accessible", which is a genuine feat

I read do androids dream of electric sheep because of bladerunners 1982 Roy Batty, he waas such a cool character. In the book was an android with the same name but not the same character and none of the themes or concepts i loved the movies Roy for. Still a really cool book!

>>24853119
SF, more than fantasy, requires you to look at the secondary subject

for example, SF: Big Dumb Object, or SF: Colony Ship, or SF: Space Opera

A good rule of thumb if you're looking for exoticism is to look for SF that is also marked as Weird Fiction and to avoid anything marked as Hard SF. It's not a perfect solution but it works.

>>24852702
Google. Play. Books.

hybrid between Tolkienesque fantasy, technologically oriented "hard" science fiction, and steampunk

>>24853379
I think I lack the proper vocabulary for secondary subjects and the descriptors to help narrow that down.

Like for apocalypse scifi there has to be some way people differentiate there will come soft rains, and world war z. Like there are clear signs those are not alike, but I don't know how you would go looking for one without getting the other (and many like it) in the mix.

>>24853549
What is?

>>24853583
Hard fantasy according to Gardner Dozois.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_fantasy#Other_uses

I love Space Elves and Space Orcs.

>>24853591
Warhammer is fucking SHIT

>>24852731
Listening to an audiobook is too passive an experience for me to really savor the story. Old-fashioned reading ensured one's undivided attention.

>>24853587
>Hard fantasy
Fantasy that makes you hard?

>>24846281 (OP)
Can I have a story about a grandmother searching the stars to try and find her lost grandchildren who disappeared when her sons wife's boyfriend took all of them somewhere?

>>24853623
Only if she's a cyborg or android.

>>24853345
I find it mysterious and deeply irritating how few SF books have actual good romance

not woman-targeted romance, or fetish shit, or damsel in distress

just two people, one of which can be an alien or robot as long as it's not too weird, and they fall in love like normal people do

>>24853549
that's just Fullmetal Alchemist

>>24853640
>normal people fall in love
lol, lmao "normal people" fall into situationships and unhappy marriages. No one "falls in love" anymore. It's a Disney fairytale myth. Isn't real.

>>24853557
For whatever it's worth I struggle with the same thing, even after many years.

Something like Storygraph is a tool intended to solve this problem, but it's a tough nut to crack regardless.

>>24853640
>Expecting nerdcel writers to know what love is like.
Be realistic.

>>24853655
>those grapes were sour anyway

>>24853655
nah, variations of this meme have circulated since the 70s (and probably earlier), but it's never been true. or rather it's true for a small, vocal minority, and shouldn't be seen as the norm

I've been married myself 12 years now, and I have many friends and family members who are happily married and have very normal (and good) stories

>>24853680
>My friends are lying to me about how happy they are
Many such cases.

>>24853596
Warhammer is far from the only setting to have them, it's just the laziest with them.

>>24853677
>Real life is just like an aesop bro!
Consider killing yourself.

>>24853721
Hit the nail on the head, I see.

>>24853606
Audiobooks are good if you like having something long form on while exercising.

Mask of the Sorcerer is a nice emotional story, but it's not much of an adventure.

>>24853991
What. Did we read them same book? Every chapter is almost a self contained adventure story. It's probably like that because of the fact author was a prolific short story writer before novelist.

>>24854020
The beginning until he leaves the underworld, I'll grant you. Sekenre doesn't do much on his own, he has the ability to travel outside of space and time and does so, but that follows magical or dream logic which doesn't convey the same sense of travel and trials.
In his world, he jumps from Reedland to wherever Neca and Tica are camping, they take a boat and tour to the capital where he stays, up until there's about 100 pages left now. I like the wizard duels a lot, I just didn't know it would have such a strong psychological focus on Sekenre's relationship with his dad, to the point where sorcerous inheritance in this system is a great big metaphor for "sins of the father" and domestic trauma.

>>24852575
Terra Ignota by Ada Palmer (history teacher), seems to be interested in all that kind of stuff
it really is THE most under-read books I ever came across, written in the last 10 years

Even if it got all kinds of flaws. It's just a very ambitious and interesting series

Got some renaissance history in there. Got some Political history
Some ancient Greek/Homer

>>24850423
I'm normally not big on authors farming out their IPs but Ringworld is one that would benefit it. Let Peter Watts write a horror novel about the vampires or R.A. Salvatore write a swashbuckling adventure novel about what happened to Seeker. There is so much you could do with the concept that is being wasted.

>>24853682
it's just that actual good, happy people tend to be friends with other good people and shut blackpilled channers out of their lives. so it's natural you wouldn't personally know many happily married couples

Hello, anons. Does anyone have any recommendations for a fantasy novel or series that would be considered "high fantasy" but where magic plays a more subtle role?
I still want a story with epic themes of good vs evil and world-threatening villains, but where magic is either too expensive or too complex to be wielded very often and when it is used it either requires a lot of preparation or isn't overwhelmingly powerful.
A story where magic isn't commonplace, instead it's extraordinary, perhaps poorly understood and difficult to wield, perhaps has some serious drawbacks in exchange for its power, perhaps requires a lifetime or multiple lifetime of intense study to use.
I hope that makes sense.

>>24854177
You want a fantasy novel but without magic?

>>24854079
book 4 just falls apart. we suddenly go from one of the most fascinating narrators in the history of science fiction who is coping with a bottomless conundrum of what-the-fuckness populated by an entire roster of deranged weirdos to reading about the daily bowel movements of some literal who.

>>24854184
No, I want magic, I just don't want magic to be the kind of thing that's used to pass the butter across the table.
I'm looking for magic to be used sparingly and to have some sort of cost associated with it so that it's still this mysterious, unknown quantity.
aka, I want magic to be magical, not mundane

>>24854196
Read the Bible.

>>24854196
you might get a kick out of Iron Council.

>>24850016
It’s fine

>>24852656
>woman author
>female MC
Oh boy, more slop!

>>24854246
chuds can't read anyways.

>>24854112
lol, lmao. Cope.

What is your favorite magic system?
Aside from gu worms

>>24854358
im gonna have to say qigong.
gu can get fucked but insane traditional chinese pill crafting is the goat

>>24854358
You're no different than Bakkerfag.

>>24854358
ritual cannibalism

>>24852182
>Do they get better
yes, Legends is peak 80s fantasy

>>24852702
Neither is cringe so I read neither.

Gemmell is KING

>>24854096
Yeah, I don't understand why he never did that, he did it for his fucking Kzin war setting.

>>24853606
Listening to an audiobook requires more attention because you can't just read a passage twice if you don't get it the first time.

>>24854445
>thinking audio book listeners pay attention at all
It's a format for ADHD brainlets with no attention span. They have like no retention of information. To them listening to the book is just "vibes", they couldn't tell you even a vague summary of the plot.

>>24854465
You associate idiots with audiobooks because you've cultivated the silly idea that you're smarter than other people because you read more. The truth is that you may or may not be smarter than other people and the number of hours you spend sequestered away from reality has no bearing on that. You should put your intelligence to the test and try listening to something challenging on audiobook, and see if you can actually understand and retain it or if you are, in fact, one of the ADHD brainlets you complain about.

what if I told you that you have invented a wholly fictitious point of contention and that we can all choose to listen to audiobooks in a passive or an attentive mode as befits the mood and circumstance

>>24854488
>Audiobook
You didn't read the book.

>>24854410
How so? I looked at the descriptions for some of his books and they sounded pretty generic.

>>24854495
the audiobooks that I listen to are either books that I've read or books that I wouldn't read, but sometimes read after listening to the audiobook.

>>24854495
The spoken word is the way that stories are supposed to be told. Books exist as a solution to the problem of needing to find someone sufficiently familiar with a story to tell it well. Audiobooks combine the soul of an oral performance with the prevalence and exactitude of a book.

What are the absolute "hard SF" essentials for a total noob? Also is there such a thing as full on horror hard SF?

>>24854358
Midichlorians

>>24854507
>Also is there such a thing as full on horror hard SF?
Revelation Space

>>24854507
Any time I see lists of "hard" scifi titles they include shit like Expanse and 3BP that just give some vaguely sciency sounding names to their magic. I don't really see the distinction from "soft" scifi.

>>24854507
>full on horror hard SF?

Starfish gets there

>>24854522
hard sci fi is about what a civilization might plausibly be able to accomplish with an infinite energy budget or some quasi-entertainable violation of the laws of phsyics

soft sci-fi is about what non-human or plausibly quasi-human cultures might be like in a more or less novel setting.

>>24854391
>cannibalism fueled magic
what novel?

>>24854507
Rendezvous with rama
Ringworld/Mote in God's Eye
Mission to Gravity
Cities in Flight
Limbo by Bernard Wolfe
maybe Solaris? idk
Tau Zero
Blood Music

>>24854488
if you were in an attentive mode you wouldn't have chosen audio to begin with. unless illiterate IQlet

>>24854532
Star Trek would seem to fall into the first category and Star Wars into the second, but they're equally implausible to me and the exact location of space that they're set in seems like the least relevant of their differences.

>>24854532
>>24854549
hard scifi is nerd shit like ringworld
soft scifi/speculative fiction has literary merit and has actual good authors like J.G Ballard and Alfred Bester

>>24854549
fair criticisms. I immediately started thinking in the same direction. I think we could dial it in but I'm not sure it would be useful to do so. fiction is always about taking existing ideas and moving the boundaries further outwards.

>>24854502
I only got into him recently but his writing is a nice middle ground between the action and heroics of Robert E Howard and the worldbuilding of Tolkien. He's a better character writer than either, too. His characters have enough shortcomings to make them grounded while still being admirable. I also like his handling of magic, which stresses the limitations of the magic practitioner.
You could call him generic to an extent, but imo he does a good job of breathing life into genre conventions and making them his own.

>>24854560
you might like Ted Chiang

>>24850457
>People who wrote Drargonlance
>Obscure
whipper snapper

>>24854522
Just finished 3BP, I might be wrong but I believe it's somewhere in the middle, leaning a bit more towards the "hard" aspect of SF, where it's grounded in a lot of real physics and is more interested in spending 80% of the time explaining the mechanisms of how the technology would work than pretty much anything else, much to the point of being boring at times and having characters whose entire dialogues are exposition for these concepts. A lot of stuff like the phosons, using the sun as an amplifying antenna to send signals unto space is purely on the speculative side of course, there's still the "fiction" in science fiction after all. I can't speak for the other 2 books in the trilogy since I haven't read them yet. But from what I've been told they seem to get way too out there for hard SF territory,

New Black Company book is out. Off to a great start.

>>24851824
It's like one scene from one chapter. BBEG changes from his dragon form to that of a nearly 7ft tall human man and proceeds to SA a captive woman who is connected with the protag. This is not a sexy scene on par with modern romantasy.

>>24854646
The sophons are, like I said, utterly implausible science-flavored magic with no basis in reality. At that point you might as well say Star Wars is hard scifi because midichlorians, and what's left for soft scifi?

>>24854577
My point wasn't that I thought dragonlance was obscure, it's that I was surprised that I rarely hear about them here given the popularity I had thought they had.

Howler-bros we're so back

Howler-bros we're so back

>>24854560
>ringworld
>hard scifi
LOL

I'm reading through this book right now and if this is hard, then so is Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy. There's literally a guy teleporting from one end of the earth to another on the first page. It's an entertaining and well written book, don't get me wrong, and the author seems to know enough about science but he's definitely not walking on eggshells to avoid breaking physics. Just talking a few sentences about real physics doesn't make your sci-fi hard, if you're going to break them in the next sentence anyway, guys.

Rendezvous With Rama would be more like it, if you want a popular well-known example.

Thing is, actual hard sci-fi is a niche within niche and there isn't actually that much of it out there, while people who are barely literate in sci-fi (or science) label anything and everything as "hard" if the author mentioned one of Newton's laws once.

Hell, I've spent some considerable amount of time now (well, more than a year) focusedly combing through sci-fi titles looking for works that are hard enough to satisfy me, so far it's been kind of a coin flip if a book described as "hard SF" falls within my parameters. Even when I'm getting my recs from "authoritative" sources like Atomic Rockets. It's kind of an on-going research project of mine. And coin flip might be giving it too much credit. I try to pre-screen what I read and I still get punchable clown-faced nonsense like Ringworld. To be fair, I think I picked that one simply because it's a famous SF classic, the fact that the premise explicitly revolves around an alien megastructure already rang multiple alarm bells, but I still didn't expect it to be this mushy. Rendezvous With Rama primed me to expect something better.

If someone like me who's TRYING to read hard science fiction has this much difficulty finding it imagine the chances of stumbling on it. Maybe that's why it's called hard.

>>24854507
>Rendezvous With Rama, Arthur C. Clarke
>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Robert A. Heinlein
Start with these two, they're two famous books that survived my screening, and thus may be considered essentials. If you like them, you may branch into other stuff by the same authors, while not everything they've written qualifies as hard, they usually have more rigorous approach to science than most writers. Clarke especially has some great grounded short stories (I need to look through more of his novels. 2001: A Space Odyssey is probably a safe bet if the movie is any indication)
If you don't mind more obscure recs, I liked Semper Mars by Ian Douglas and Theft of Fire by Devon Eriksen. (The alien and AI stuff and torch drives in the latter is somewhat pushing it, but I don't feel like being a pedant. I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel and it's close enough.)

>>24854507
This anon's >>24854547 lsit is ok.

>>24854804
>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
bruh that hardly fits any better than Ringworld bruh

>>24854808
>bruh that hardly fits any better than Ringworld
The AI is a bit of a fairy tale character but besides Mike, what part of it contradicts science as we know it, bruh?

>>24854716
>Dragonlance
That's basically D&D merchandise, right? It's like Wars/Trek novels, 100% based on cross-media franchise popularity. Those don't get talked about much on here either as honestly the books aren't great SF in themselves.
Dragonlance in particular is mostly infamous for being badly written, only D&D nerds care about it because it's a setting in their game.

Is the Sun Eater saga worth to get into?

>>24854864
No

>>24854808
In a way, if I'm following you rightly, I get the criticism with Heinlein. He's a bit of a borderline example, as his writings often fly past the radar simply because he avoids writing about technology or physics in too much detail. But I think it's an entirely valid approach to writing hard SF. He's not a real scientist or an engineer and he knows his limits. In the end, hardness is not defined by how many orbital elements you quote or how many equations you write on a page, it's simply how many science mistakes you make. And in this context, a mistake is still a mistake even if you do it informedly and with purpose, which is why Ḯ'm not counting something like Ringworld. Anything you can do to avoid making those mistakes is valid. Heinlein may be a coward, but just like in war, being a coward is valid if it gets you the win. I'd probably go for a similar approach if I was writing my own.

>>24854896
>it's simply how many science mistakes you make
I'd disagree.

>>24854903
No.

>>24854912
Yes.

For a lot of people the baseline is Hollywood slop like Star Wars and Star Trek because it's all they've grown up with. So they open a book for the first time in their life and are impressed by authors like Larry Niven and Orson Scott Card because their science-speak is slightly more rigorous than the woo-woo treknobabble baseline they're used to. But that's just them stumbling over the baseline of actual, proper science fiction. It's still "just" regular ass, normal science fiction. Hard science fiction is a more specific and limited subgenre.

It's no use defining a subgenre if it ends up encompassing 80% of the base genre, you know? It's especially useless to those of us, like me, who are actually searching for a specific kind of science fiction story to read. It's a genre descriptor, not some kind of a badge of honor. You don't need to feel inferior if your favorite books aren't considered "hard science fiction" by those in the know. You'll still have your useless Hugo and Nebula awards.

>>24854949
Yes but that's just you changing the definition that the whole publishing industry uses.
Like a feminist that changes the definitions of "racism" and "sexism" to win some online arguments

>>24854955
It probably is, but should I care? They use these terms for marketing to maximize sales, that's all. Most of what the publishing industry does and says has proven useless to me.

>>24854949
>>24854955
It's been quite a while since this thread had a proper autistic meltdown regarding the only correct definition of "hard sci-fi". I say it's time to give it another go.

>>24854978
The meltdown is just wherever I go, I never stop.

>>24854982
I kneel.

>>24850576
No

>>24850576
He restarts the Sun in book 5

>>24855005
Bruh next you're gonna tell me he is going to become the Autarch

>>24847045
it's good. but it turns into more than a simple travelogue of the tower if that's what you're expecting. whimsy without being grating or tryhard

disappointed with his new Hexologist series, sadly

>>24846313
before I start it (I dread it but it seems to be one of the must-read), can you please argue why is it dogshit?

>>24846313
I'll add: EVERTHING SANDERSON'S IS UTTER DOGSHIT

give me something brutal and murderous like manifest delusions or broken empire please. I want to feel filthy. Give me nonsensical murder, rape and craziness

>>24855048
I recommend a therapist

>>24855039
it's not a book
it's a storied wiki

>>24855060
not helping

>>24855061
how so?

>>24854864
Yes, final book comes out in like two weeks. I read through them this summer and they're great, one of my new favorite series.

>>24855116
How long does it take for it to become it's own thing? I read a bit of book 1 before I got distracted but it literally felt like a word to word copy of Dune.

>>24855048
Second Apocalypse.

>>24855130
Yeah first half or so of the first book is really heavy on the Dune influences, but after that it starts coming into it's own more and more, and the only thing really left of the Dune influences are the things about the setting (mainly the no thinking machines and anti-ranged shields like in Dune). He expands on those things as well as you read on. I really enjoyed the series all the way from the begging, but starting from about halway through book 2 and to the end of the series it's just amazing.

Also, this series has had many terminally online people angry because of some conservative themes so that's a big plus in my book.

>>24846313
Correct

>>24855039
>it seems to be one of the must-read
No.

>>24855039
I don't regret reading it, but it is dogshit in parts. Book 1 is really good: action, events, you're dropped into the middle of it, and I found that enrapturing. Book 2 blueballs you by "subverting your expectations" of how a main plotline should unfold (but some people like it a lot), and book 3 is peak kino with the most insane enemy faction and most insane battle I've seen.
Then there's a lull with various other characters and plotlines, which are half and half. You have a slave to the shadow elves, you have an impoverished lackadaisical nobleman and his kindly manservant (great characters), and you have the author's pet donut steel not!Conan, whom I personally found to be thoroughly uninteresting (much worse than the real Conan desu). There's a subplot about the dark elves, there's half a book that deals with a side quest in one of the cities from the earlier books. There are also ultra-powerful high mages springing up like mushrooms now, all over the place. There's still interesting things going on, and it's not a bad a lull as mid-Wheel of Time, but most of the original people I was really interested in aren't the focus here.
Book 8 is a return to form with some really interesting events that go down.
Book 9 and 10 wrap the whole thing, though they kinda feel like we're fighting against a completely different enemy now, but the conclusion does wrap it all up and is surprisingly emotional.

The setting is deep and quite interesting, and you're not given explanations off the bat, which kept me interested. (but my dad, for example, hated it - ymmv) The power scaling is crazy though, and in the later books it almost feels like Erikson just pulls a high mage out of his ass whenever
Erikson's anthropology background shines through in some really interesting scenes, but there's LOTS of random weird shit. A witch that sticks severed fingers up her cunt; random appearances of two uninteresting novella characters we're probably supposed to give a shit about; a likeable character becomes queen of the blighted rotmaxxers and then nothing comes of it; prolonged explanations of how a tribal femboy has never lain with a woman because he is saving his seed for marriage, and thus has no problem with taking cock up the ass; or an extended misery porn plotline where a large group of parasite-infested kids suffer and die in the desert while occasionally trying to have sex.
On the other hand, some of the battle scenes are incredible and some moments are incredibly tender. The explanation for what "Gardens of the Moon" means, when you get it in book 8 or 10 or whatever, was the sweetest thing ever.
It's an odd series, but I mostly liked it and would recommend, but I can understand why people could dislike it.

>>24854837
Which is why I posted Deathgate Cycle and not Dragonlance. Another poster brought that up.

>>24855239
Good post. I agree with all of that. Malazan is a series I loved but I don't know if I enjoyed. There are lots of good in it but also too much autistic fluff.

>>24855239
well thank you anon, I wasn't expecting such a comprehensive reply

>>24855142
should I start by picrel?

Thoughts on picrel please, should I start this or what? I watched the show but it got kinda boring

>>24855328
It’s comfy and good. Better than the show

>>24855321
yes

>24855239
my only dislike of these books is that sometimes he went too far with the obscurity of some of the plotlines.
It's almost impossible to understand anything about the Snake, Icarium, or Shake plotlines on your first read. The payoff is great sure but they are designed for later readthroughs, and I am not a big fan of that
otherwise it's my favorite series ever

>>24855239
>>24855365

Are we reading the new BC book bros?

>>24855414
I only read the first trilogy or whatever and honestly wasn't impressed enough to keep going.

>>24854057
>there's about 100 pages left now
magic school chapter adventure soon. It's better than all the harry potter books nigga

>>24854410
>>24854564
agree. If you haven't read The Jerusalem Man trilogy yet do that soon.

>>24855414
Only if the twin bimbo PAWGS have explicit sex scenes.

>>24855469
>tfw one of them was about to get put into a breeding prison for being a cheeky brat
So close

so we hate malazan, lotr, book of the new sun series

so what do we like

>>24855586
Red Rising

>>24855586
This, and you like it because you can instantly self-insert with the protagonist because of how tiny his sword is.

>>24855338
thanks anon

>>24855586
slop/chink harem litrpg tier trash

>>24855586
Dungeon Crawler Carl

>>24855321
You have to read Prince of Nothing in order to understand Aspect Emperor, but honestly PoN isn't that great. Then the first two books of Aspect Emperor are some of the best works of fantasy ever written, followed by two more books that are generally quite dreary in comparison and frankly even boring at times. They do, however, include several passing descriptions of orgies of simultaneous cannibalism, gay rape, and necrophilia, so maybe if you have a good imagination they'll be able to keep your attention. There's also, as I recall, a (step-)incest and cuckolding scene if that's something you're into.

>>24853365
<3

>>24855328

I'm re-watching the show after reading it. Never noticed it the first time I watched it but the show treats the audience like retards and all the drama/conflict is very thin and contrived.

The books are much better and the characters are all deeper and less insufferable.

>show Holden is an angry punchable-face toddler
>book Holden is just some guy who tries his best to do good

>Drummer is best girl

>>24854196
Riftwar Cycle? Magic is used but it's pretty infrequent and the main character almost dies multiple times when he uses powerful forms of it.

What's the comfiest work of scifi you've read this year?

>>24856662
Empire of Silence

Soon.

>>24856725
S-soon w-what anon?

>>24856737
the fog is coming...

>>24856752
*BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP* SNIFF, SNIFF HMMMM.... YES. TH-THE FOG HAS INDEED *SNIIIIFFFF* ARRIVED

Just goes to show how often threads are made.

>>24856771
the fog is coming...