So if
>The RF Series technology has been open-sourced, and its dissemination continued throughout the Earth Sphere even after the end of the Oldsmobile War. Mass production would not be difficult if mobile worker production facilities are available.
does this mean people started making original RFs due to the whole RF thing being open source? The captured early RF Zaku in Fastest Formula was analyzed and they said it was made from parts so universal that a civilian car factory with the right materials and blueprints could've made a machine more than capable of tackling Jegan Normal Types and in the manga can give Heavyguns a hard time too. And space is filled with asteroids to mine and this entry says the know-how is disseminated.

Does this mean over time, people started making their own forks and offshoots like usual open source stuff? Some colony with a ton of GMs trying to upgrade in secret, a bunch of pirates disguising their machines as Titans or Axis era machines, or even a loony factory-colony owner trying to sell bootleg versions of patented or trademarked Anaheim models like Jegans? Which all might actually be better than the originals? Have Anaheim or even second-hand salesmen lost customers because colonies wanting defense told them
>Nah, we made this open source shit with parts you can find anywhere rather than buy your overpriced name brand mechs.
Is late UC just filled with random outdated-looking machines that are better than Jegans?

>>23314167 (OP)
this doesn't really track since local colony forces in actual animation are shown using surplus fed equipment like the heavygun m5
you could maybe make an argument for cosmo babylonia and zanscare stuff looking zeek-derived but they have a direct non-RF ancestry in the dessa type mobile worker

>>23314254
Macedonia's defense force was probably using the remnants of the local Federation colony garrison.

>>23314167 (OP)
I think this is going to be a future excuse to bring back virtually any machine that should've been horribly outdated for nostalgia.
>No, the GM I was using and actually willing with isn't OYW, it's an open source RF GM.

>>23315234
THANK YOU. I knew I wasn't the only one who hated the RFs. You get the Federation actually improving and making different designs after the Jegan, like the Heavygun, but then you get right back to the same tired old zaku/dom/gelgoog/whatever we can rip off from the OYW deal once again. Like, shit, late UC gets us actually cool and unique suits like the F90 and F91 series, the Den'an series, the Vignas, and we STILL have to see Zakus in our face yet again.
At least Rochester's RF Gelgoog kinda looks like a fatter Zorin Soul and that's sick.

>>23315267
Those were only the early RF types, the late RF types used more modernized but still retro looking machines, early types were relegated to defending Olympus mons

>>23314167 (OP)
Just because they are open source doesnt mean that there are people willing to make them. Plenty of firearms stuff is open source but you don't see people ready to crank out esoteric clones of random FAL models, there is a profit incentive there, and I doubt all of these RF series MS are actually superior to top of the line new purpose built MS

>>23315339
That's because most open source firearms designs aren't that good. We have nothing like CoD BO3 open source 3D printed guns no inferior to any factory-produced weapon. Markets like America are filled with companies making ARs and variations of proven patent-expired designs like all those Glock clones. There aren't many FAL clones, though some exist, but there's doubtlessly tons of clones of Glocks flooding markets.

A better comparison would be Khyber Pass guns and bootlegs. Untraceable clones without permission from the original designers or owners, no way to sue them, and a backwater place can make them without anyone knowing and. Only according to OP they're good quality. OP's car factory in UC would be equivalent to a modern day house garage with how widespread and populated space colonies are. So it's also like WWII Danish Resistance making Stens too. Modern Glock clones still have some company backing them but OP's description more resembles weapons assembled in a cave or backyard when comparing the space-age scope of UC.

>>23314167 (OP)
I hate the new RF designs, I think they’re so lazy

>>23314167 (OP)
I'm interested in refurbished old mechs myself. In real-life, outside extreme high intensity periods like WW2 where shit gets blown up so quickly that new models of planes & tanks come out every few months, we've been retrofitting old hardware forever. Many Browning M2s are older than their user & many tank designs go back to the Cold War. They have new weapons, guidance systems, and may be miles better than before because of them but it's like how modern firearms have new polymers, new high-tech sights, new experimental bullets, but we're still using ARs & AKs. Pic is a refurbished GM III with parts from the Jegan normal type & more & with proper tactics they easily take on Heavyguns. Pic would be the norm in real-life rather than toy sales necessitating ground-up new designs.

>>23315267
But he didn't say he hated RFs, only that it's going to be used as an excuse. Besides, they would've brought them back anyway like how Jegans are still in-service in F91 or make an excuse like a terrorist force with old machines. That said, few do pic & give the old machine a new look or upgrade. Even the Jegan normal barely looks any different nor has any fancy new guns. Times are so peaceful that there's no demand for massive Jegan upgrades.

>>23315493
You just hate Hasegawa's trash for little kids.

>>23315339
>but you don't see people ready to crank out esoteric clones of random FAL models
There are.
>DSA SA58
>Armscorp T48
>IMBEL
etc. But >>23315482 is right that AR-15s dominate the market. Glock clones true too but on pistol designs in general the Browning tilting barrel is everyone and everyone's mom that isn't a revolver. When's the last time we saw anything else tried? Hudson H9?

>>23314167 (OP)
That basically happens in Crossbone Dust. A faction shows up called Cyclops that claims to be Titans remnants and they have the Hambra-B and the Asshimac as two of their MS.

>>23315516
There's also surplus groups selling off preexisting FALs or kits. Some Israeli and South American. Price is always an obstacle and they're never cheap.

>>23315501
No, that was supposed to be an example of a better high effort memberberries late UC design of an early UC suit.
I don’t have an issue with the original RF designs, I agree they’re very creatively bankrupt. But atleast they were their own designs. Unlike the new ones which are literally just a kampfer but now its U.C. 0120 and it’s super powerful donutsteel

>>23315482
>So it's also like WWII Danish Resistance making Stens too
That's probably the best analogy. The same Monthly Mobile Magazine as >>23314167 (OP) says the RF design is an intentional collaborative effort of Haman Zeon Remnant engineers along with spacenoid industry corporations including possible sympathizers within Anaheim. So they're fully professionally designed but like Stens for anti-Nazi resistance movements they were designed to be easily made and spread among groups desperate for arms that can keep up with their enemies. Also like the Stens, they weren't the most cutting edge designs and get their shit pushed by the most advanced designs, like this article says about being good at surprise attacks on unexpecting, lightly defended places but get beaten on a defensive home turf invasion. The Stens might never recover from their reputation for choking when assassinating Heydrich.

>>23315559
I want to rape Reinhard.

I just remembered pic exists.

>>23315482
>That's because most open source firearms designs aren't that good. We have nothing like CoD BO3 open source 3D printed guns no inferior to any factory-produced weapon.
Yeah if the Luty was actually good enough to go toe to toe with an M4A1 or AK-74M then it would've been a revolution.

>>23315559
The STEN wasn't pushed as hard but that's more because the competition was honest to god mediocre or had some major flaw most of the time. Main problem for the STEN was the unreliable single feed magazine sucked balls.
>MP40
>overpriced mediocre design with teething issues
>Thompson
>gun made too late for WWI that was heavy, expensive, and numerous obsolete experimental attempts like sides of magazine trying to keep magazine from falling out
>PPSh-41
>magazine was an annoying skilled labor bottleneck and overall design was only continued when the way easier to produce PPS-43 came into existence because they already had so much 41 infrastructure
>Reisling
>is the Reisling
The STEN isn't really pleasant to shoot compared to the 43 either IMO but to its credit it was cheap and everyone used it to the point even the Germans produced them. It should be said that the STEN was far from the best but it was good enough and was straight up better than many competitors which couldn't be made in a bike garage. Ones outright better like the Sterling, M3, and PPS-43 required machining which only becomes cheap once you produce truckloads and economics of scale kick in.

>>23315627
>>magazine was an annoying skilled labor bottleneck and overall design was only continued when the way easier to produce PPS-43 came into existence because they already had so much 41 infrastructure
Most don't know the magazines were serialized to the gun, and hand-fitted to said gun. If you buddy passed a mag in combat, chances were it wouldn't fit.

>>23314167 (OP)
>The captured early RF Zaku in Fastest Formula was analyzed and they said it was made from parts so universal that a civilian car factory with the right materials and blueprints could've made a machine more than capable of tackling Jegan Normal Types
>>23315482
>OP's car factory in UC would be equivalent to a modern day house garage with how widespread and populated space colonies are. So it's also like WWII Danish Resistance making Stens too. Modern Glock clones still have some company backing them but OP's description more resembles weapons assembled in a cave or backyard when comparing the space-age scope of UC.
Maybe even smaller. UC Gundam colonies are usually O’Neill Cylinders and even though Gundam usually forgets they have TWO cylinders, they should still have the capacity to house millions and each cylinder should be about 500 square miles of land or about 1295km squared. To give a frame of reference, the whole of New York City is 1,223.6km squared and this counts 445.4km squared of water. The land could be homes, sea, grass or whatever but the total amount of land is beyond New York's total size. You could have places as population dense as Manhattan or forests with nothing but animals. They never gave a completely solid and non-contradicted figure for the number of colonies but between this, asteroid bases like Luna 2 and Axis, isolated colonies like Moon Moon or colonies heading outside the solar system like old Judau in Crossbone, you can have a secret manufacturing plant anywhere and it'd be hard to detect even if authorities detect. Colonies have industrial sectors the size is so vast you can have squatters nobody else knows. So it's even proportionally smaller than a garage. A secret factory might as well be a basement or bedroom in proportion.

>>23315764
*even if authorities visit

>>23315764
There's inside those mountains too. There's holes in the ground with hatches or shelters built underground. Really goes to show how easy it is to hide shit if nobody knows it's there already.

yeah so the amount of people REEEEEEEEEEEing about machu and shuji hiding their gundams in the sewers and no one being able to find them for weeks or months is totally legit

cyclops team also rented some old junkyard workshop where they assembled the kampfer from prefabbed modular parts

>>23315838
The 00 guys all hid their Gundams in different places + cloaking and nobody found them. Same for Wing. Judau had a beat up ZZ with him in his old age. What size were those sewers and was anyone actively looking for them?

>>23315843
>The 00 guys all hid their Gundams in different places + cloaking and nobody found them.
That's because the GN powered Gundams could use active camo that worked like invisibility cloaks while also being hidden from radar. Half the time they were on Earth, they were hiding out at deserted islands, not always in cities.

>Same for Wing.
Occasionally the Gundams were discovered, Wufei hid his in a forest under an camouflage net filled with tree branches and leaves but a search helicopter found it since they knew he was operating in the area. Trowa hid his Heavyarms on a cargo truck in the sewers where Leo pilots accidentally found it during the middle of an OZ attack on an Alliance city. After Heero and Trowa left for space, Sally Po tracked down their two hidden Gundams on earth in separate episodes and held them for safekeeping until she was able to hand them off to other allies or another Gundam pilot.

https://youtu.be/iUYVFD7CETY?t=854
https://youtu.be/4zB8ZiOtEWI?t=974

>Judau had a beat up ZZ with him in his old age.
He was actively using it, not keeping it hidden somewhere. Nobody knew it was the old ZZ since it was patched up like a custom civilian MS made of junk

>What size were those sewers and was anyone actively looking for them?
Big enough for a standard 18m tall MS to stand upright and not worry about the head clearance, and wide enough for 2 to 3 MS side by side.

>>23315914
>Big enough for a standard 18m tall MS to stand upright and not worry about the head clearance, and wide enough for 2 to 3 MS side by side.
How far & deep do they go?

>>23315764
>asteroid bases like Luna 2 and Axis, isolated colonies like Moon Moon or colonies heading outside the solar system like old Judau in Crossbone
Lunar cities, Mars cities and Jupiter adjacent colonies too.

>>23315267
Shit taste

>>23314167 (OP)
>>23315234
>>23315267
This whole thing reads a lot like justification for the Mix-Build stuff seen in Crossbone. Based.

>>23314167 (OP)
>>23315559
I like the implication that the proliferation of hi-spec Zeon replicas got so out of control that they survived the literal end of the world.

>>23316639
>"The RF Zaku this became a catalyst for the ensuring warring states period." from >>23315559
>Borjarnons can hover over water and other features the Zaku II doesn't have, all but saying they're not OYW models and no point in upgrading something so outdated
>made in big enough numbers that caches of them can be found in Turn A, implying ease of production and hiding to the point 99% being destroyed still leaves enough for an army
It's amazing how influential a Zaku knockoff can be.

>>23314167 (OP)
What does the RF stand for? Retrofitted?

>>23317328
"Refined." The early models were replica units designed to resemble OYW machines but spec-wise they were comparable to the Geara Doga. Later models (pic related) like those deployed by Mars Zeon and Jupiter incorporated data of the captured F90 Unit 2.

>>23315838
The Kampfer was smuggled in and the colony had no idea they even brought it in. They saw both Gundams for themselves in the first episode but just gave up looking for it.

>>23315914
GN particles really just did whatever the fuck they wanted. Perfect optical camo, changing the MASS of objects they coated, induced telepathy, fucking teleportation to different galaxies? It's literally star trek shit

>>23314167 (OP)
I find it funny that even though the smaller suits were meant to be easier maintenance in relatively peaceful times
>Across various colonial states, it has become fashionable to deploy replicas of mobile suits that were active in the previous century, and they are becoming more widespread than the high-cost, maintenance-intensive second-generation small mobile suits. There are even theories suggesting that the Federation Forces are considering a scaling up of the RGM-122’s successor to a 16-18 meter class.
>high-cost, maintenance-intensive second-generation small mobile suits
Which basically says it was completely backwards and ended up more expensive than ever. Even accounting for existing infrastructure, this means whatever theoretical savings did not make up for everything else.

>There are even theories suggesting that the Federation Forces are considering a scaling up of the RGM-122’s successor to a 16-18 meter class.
>UC-0146
I wonder what the new RGM would've been. Victory's set in UC 0153 but the Federation's only ever using RGM-122 Javelins (and the older Jamesguns), and the LM's using the small scale V/V2/Gun-Ez

>>23319217
If G-Savior's still canon, then the ~17m pic means 40+ years after Victory people aren't using 14ms anymore. In the long run, miniaturized MS ended up having as many problems as they did IRL.

>>23317381
Maybe you are discovering that 00 is actually wish fulfillment shit for barely 18 year olds? It's one of the least deep Gundams as it's entire premise is just immature, and the magic GN particles just do whatever allows things to be cool for teenagers

>>23315516
Those are all made from an increasingly dwindling supply of existing FAL kits, not new productions.

>>23314167 (OP)
Basically, it's not as good as it looks and is definitely outdated by the time of F91, when Jamesgun (and maybe Javelin) already existed (but wasn't used against Crossbone Vanguard, because EF gave no fucks about the trouble in the frontier colonies).
>>23315234
You're saying this as if they need excuses.
Look up GM-005 GM (Argent Keil Type) and ZK-005 Zaku II (Argent Keil Type) if you want to see just how fucking shameless Bandai can get.

>>23319895
>increasingly dwindling supply of existing FAL kits
>DSA
Who knew Cold War era FALs had this much plastic.

>>23319929
>it's not as good as it looks
Looks like a Zaku II if you ask me. Anything that can fight a Heavygun and win is far better.

>>23319929
yes, also see the gelgoogs from MSV-R

>>23315634
That would make looting suckier.
>>23317373
>spec-wise they were comparable to the Geara Doga
Is that praise or an insult after that one guy Hathaway's Jegan vulcaned to death?

>>23321372
it's just a matter of fact because some char's NZ faction remnants escaped to mars and brought some geara dogas with them, allowing the development of the RF series based on geara doga tech

if anything the RF series should be better armored since they use gundarium alloy composite instead of the geara doga's cheaper titanium alloy ceramic

>>23321379
That's how they were written earlier. The Mars Zeon RFs were initially
>Mars-based Zeon Remnants got Geara Doga samples and worked on them for years until they've made marginally better Zakus and other OYW machines based on them
but recent forages into later UC add more details like OP and >>23315559's RFs being an open-source collaborative effort as a result of anti-Fed behavior. Then Mars Zeon was involved but didn't make everything from the ground up.

In fact, Advance of Z showed tons more conflict at Mars and way more samples of Doven Wolfs and new machines developed this entire time. So Mars Zeon had way more than just OYW machines before a handful of Geara Dogas then stolen F90 joined. They've been retroactively buffed in a way.

>>23319700
>G-Savior
Wasn't that the one Sunrise and everyone tries to forget exists?

>>23321434
They don’t officially recognize it but also don’t outright reject it. Crossbone DUST sets up a worldview that seems to directly lead into G-Saviour, with the Federation in a state of total collapse and space being reduced to warring states, with explanations for how so many technologies were lost.

>>23321434
>>23321472
The stance from Sunrise is “anything approved by Sunrise is official.” Meaning canon.
https://magmix.jp/post/142914/2
Unless they come out and explicitly say G-Saviour isn’t canon, like they do for a lot of things already, then it is canon. Same goes for Gaia Gear.

>>23321434
It appeared in Build Fighters.

>>23321434
supposedly the HG G-Saviour kit was reprinted in 2017

>>23321481
For a list of what is canon or semi-canon in UC, refer to
https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%AE%87%E5%AE%99%E4%B8%96%E7%B4%80

So Gaia Gear and G-Saviour are canon, Sentinel and most manga series are only semi-canon. Crossbone is canon due to Tomino’s involvement, its sequels are only semi.

>>23321491
fucking pixiv? not even on a bandai-adjacent platform?

>>23321481
https://www.cinematoday.jp/news/N0105394
Here’s an article where a producer outright suggests Gaia Gear is still canon.

>>23321481
Pretty simple guideline honestly

>>23321491
>Crossbone is canon due to Tomino’s involvement
Tomino wasn't involved beyond sharing his unfinished script. Hasegawa had free reign over the actual manga and Tomino gave no input on it, which is why it diverges so extremely from Tomino's original script.

>>23321481
Lmao that's a fucking nothing burger site. Article written by a total nobody.

>>23321491
Most of what is claimed on there isn't true anymore. Comments by Inoue in 2004 are not relevant anymore.

>>23321509
That's not at all what's is said.

>>23321986
Sorry, forgot I was dealing with a retard western Gundam fan. I'll see if I can't fish up some blatantly made up bullshit posted on a message board somewhere for you to believe, instead of an actual article reporting Sunrise's own words.

>>23321989
>Most of what is claimed on there isn't true anymore.
This. At present, anything approved by Sunrise is canon, but the timeline on the page still adheres to the 2010 standard of "if it's animated or by Tomino, it's canon".
We know for a fact Crossbone DUST for instance was approved by Sunrise, so it being 'semi-canon' would be moronic.

>>23321116
"Can" is a silly word to use here. You CAN take a decades old MS like Zaku III, put a fight with Heavygun and even win.
Heavygun was never widely adopted and was treated as a stop gap measure until SNRI cooks up a better grunt, though in the end F80 lost the contest to Anaheim's Jamesgun.

>>23314167 (OP)
I'm surprised they have enough self control to not build a RF RX-78.

>>23322387
Would be funny to see OYW military reenactments in UC 0120 with RF suits

>>23321989
>Most of what is claimed on there isn't true anymore
Based on what?
>Comments by Inoue in 2004 are not relevant anymore
Why? Because you don't like them?

>>23322398
Might genuinely be a thing. A lot of the MS parts that get kitbashed together in DUST are replica parts, even for shit like the Qubeley.

>>23322037
Heavyguns are also recently depicted as equaling or superior to select elite machines, alone or given support. In Fastest Formula, a few as a team can match if not exceed ReZELs in maneuverability. They're a stopgap that's much better than the usual mini-Jegan description.

And the miniaturized suits are apparently so overpriced that all these Monthly Mobile in-universe magazines say they're so high-cost and maintainence-intensive that it's fashionable to use either replicas (like RFs) or retrofit a GM III to the point the Federation's rumored to go back to 16-18 meter class suits.

>>23322537
Wasn’t the whole point of miniaturization to you know REDUCE COSTS and MAINTENANCE?!

>>23322537
>n Fastest Formula, a few as a team can match if not exceed ReZELs in maneuvera
I should fucking hope so. They're supposed to be be miniatured late-UC Jegans, not shitstains from UC0096

>>23322540
Supposedly but OP's pic written a decade before Victory in universe and G-Savior returning to >>23319700 sized machines suggest miniature mechs were a fad that ended up being more expensive than they planned.

>>23322540
It didn't work out because a bunch of nerd engineers decided to pack up a ton of new tech in new suits.
LM in Victory proved that small and powerful mobile suits could be done dirt cheap easy, Gun-EZ. Or, if we're talking FF stuff, Randegger MS are like that too, there's a reason Zeon remnants used Tigris II.
Besides RF series is also a product of miniaturization, just from 20-22 meters tall to 18-20.
>>23322628
Freedom still manages to be smaller than OG GM. It's easier to assume that over the years the height crawled back.

>>23322540
>>23322628
In Crossbone: Dust it's explained the reason miniaturization ended was because of the Crossbone and Jupiter Wars and then Zanscare war decimating the infrastructure of the Earth Sphere, including factories and the R&D facilities of what remained of Anaheim. SNRI split and destroyed itself in the opening of the Zanscare War with its BESPA facilities becoming Zanscare's mobile suit manufacturing hub. The conflicts also ended much of the H3 supply from Jupiter, which slowed down fusion reactor production, lowering reactor outputs. Beam weaponry is almost mythological since much of the technology to build and maintain them was lost post-EFF as most suits in Crossbone: Dust were refitted with ballistic weaponry.

>>23322719
>The conflicts also ended much of the H3 supply from Jupiter
So reactor output went down I assume. Or they became more efficient.

>>23322758
They all switched to diesel electric

>>23322719
What's up with post Dust Crossbone seemingly ignoring that?

>>23322628
>>23322719
I guess all that open source RF tech didn't include
>How to beam
and Jupiter is about 10% Hellium but much of it is Hellium-4. So how much was depleted?

>>23322398
>OYW veteran taking a replica of his old guncannon out for a spin

>>23322851
And given pic, it might be pimped out to be strong enough to take on the latest machines.

>>23323360
Those aren't RF style "replicas".
Those are pimped out old stock. RF suits only look like OYW ones, inside they are proper second gen MS with movable frame and all.

>>23323378
Pimped out old stock is good enough if it can apparently make a GM III fight well against a Heavygun or the Zaku II and GM in Silver Phantom. It begs the question what's the second-hand market like and with all the 140s UC articles saying mini mechas are so overpriced and maintenance-heavy if almost nobody but richer groups have Heavyguns or Jamesguns. At least until Ez-Guns.

>>23322719
>Beam weaponry is almost mythological since much of the technology to build and maintain them was lost post-EFF as most suits in Crossbone: Dust were refitted with ballistic weaponry.
Then they rediscovered them by G-Savior.

>>23323473
G-Savior is in a weird spot, it’s practically not acknowledged at all, probably because it was primarily adapted as a live action Canadian tv movie that looks like something out of Babylon 5 or starship troopers

>>23322719
Dust is fucking retarded. Does it even try to explain away the League Militaire's moon bases where they made cutting edge weapons?

>>23322719
>Beam weapons non existent
>Federation collapses creating a lawless region
>Ballistic weapon are the norm
>Earth is a desert
>Diesel electric and steam powered machines now back at 18 meters
Wait a second, this reminds me of something https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpoIiK8gk8c

>>23323473
UC 0223 or whenever is in a better shape than Dust. Dust is basically just complete chaos with only a few factions even able to manufacture MS.

>>23323486
LM might have been the basis for Illuminati.

>>23323646
>Dust is basically just complete chaos with only a few factions even able to manufacture MS.
Earthspepoor problems

>>23322417
Because Producer Ogata has said such? Learn to read interviews bro.

>>23321998
Anon, reality check: there is no longer an "if it's animated, it's canon" mindset for Gundam. Canon just isn't a thing anymore (and to be honest never has been). Learn to educate yourself.

>>23321997
Sunrise has never come out and said something isn't canon you fucking sperg. If you actually took the time to oh, I don't know, maybe READ that fucking article in the first place (despite it coming from a fucking Kodansha pleeb), maybe you'd know that it's an OPINION PIECE and not "word of god" from Sunrise.

>>23321948
Lol that's not even true. Tomino still episode the chapters with Hasegawa but went hands off after a certain point, but keep believing he was entirely hands off.

>>23324054
>Sunrise has never come out and said something isn't canon
Thunderbolt and The Origin and GQuuuuuuX
Fuck you

>>23324054
I think the Crossbone Gundam manga that ran from 1994-1997 was aided by Tomino but all the sequels and side stories are Hasegawa working on his own.
>>23324335
This. All the talk of the show being linked to proper U.C. is people jumping to conclusions. From the start Sunrise said Gquuux is a alternate U.C. and a what-if story. It's as canon to main U.C. lore as the series crossovers in G Generation games.

>>23324335
The term canon doesn't exist on the Japanese side, dumbass. So, again, Sunrise has never said titles are unofficial. Parallel world or another UC doesn't make them "unofficial." Try actually knowing the JPN terminology before you try educating others, fucking twat.

>>23324382
That anon wasn't talking about the other sequels, only the original.

>>23324472
You are such a goddamn imbecile. Let me dumb this down for you.

YOU said that Sunrise has never said that something isn't canon.

Sunrise HAS said that those three separate works, and others, were explicitly not canon.

You now complain that the word YOU chose, canon, doesn't exist on the Japanese side.

Now you're conflating whether something is official or unofficial, whether it has Sunrise approval or not, with whether it is canon.

An official work set in an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, depicting a WHAT-IF SCENARIO, is NOT CANON.

>>23324054
>maybe READ that fucking article in the first place
I did. Anything approved by Sunrise is official, and canon is superfluous and what counts as part of the story can change from one work to another.
Could you be less of a sperg? We literally agree on this.

>>23324575
Dimwit btfo

>>23324575
Not that anon but can you show some of us where sunrise says they're not canon? Everyone keeps saying they don't have the word in Japanese. Do they or don't they?

Also, why do people care about canon anyway?

>>23325894
Whether they have the word or not is irrelevant. If something is announced as belonging to another Universal Century with no bearing on the main story, that is what any rational person would call “not canon”. To UC at least.

>>23326133
I mean, it does when the ENG fandom keeps throwing the word around when it doesn't exist on the Japanese side. I don't get the hardon over the word.

But what fucking difference does it make when all is said and done? I've seen nothing but autistic fucktards go on and on about "muh canon" on here and it makes no fucking sense. No one can come up with a compelling reason, let alone an argument, as to why it even matters. They act like this shit somehow takes away from the experience.

>>23326162
Because we use the term canon when they use “main story”. I.e., Gihren getting his dick shot off isn’t part of the main story.
But it largely makes no difference. Does CCA referencing the 0079 films mean it can’t follow the TV series? Nah. Does dialogue from the novels still get used in crossover games and the like? Yes.

>>23326182
But it does... MSG TV show cannot exist out of its own bubble. It has continuity errors inside itself, hence why the films are preferred.

>>23326268
Wrong.

>>23322719
It seemed to be screwing up long before then
>(U.C.0146.10.18 Dinah Kim Zangieva)
Dust is about 20 years later.

>>23315234
Shit, they've been doing that with content set before this, that merc group from Silver Phantom was also using old looking ms that look brand new under the hood.

>>23329527
At this rate, it ought to be more common people deliberately disguise their weapons as outdated. There's tons of backwater colonies with OYW or Gryps era machines. Some pirate looking at easy prey would be as surprised as a flintlock shooting lasers today.

>>23329524
No it isn't. Dust is 20+ years later.

>>23326268
Except Sunrise always give the TV version top billing over the movies in their communications media. Nowadays they don't even acknowledge the movie version unless it's specifically referenced. And you have characters like Challia Bull who simply don't exist in the movie version. The only real significance of the movies was the core booster, the TV version is the true version of events.

>>23326268
The films are preferred by fake fans

>>23321372
>Is that praise or an insult after that one guy Hathaway's Jegan vulcaned to death?
Anaheim laughing their way to the bank after selling Char Paper Mache shields.

>>23324054
>Anon, reality check: there is no longer an "if it's animated, it's canon" mindset for Gundam. Canon just isn't a thing anymore (and to be honest never has been). Learn to educate yourself.
Only because they realized that if only anime are canon they just threw out ZZ by accident.

>>23322037
>You CAN take a decades old MS like Zaku III, put a fight with Heavygun and even win.
According to
>https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11117
>This model is part of the AMX-011C Zaku III Late Type series. A stark difference from its predecessor is the omission of its snout mega particle cannon and a significantly enhanced generator output of 800 kW. This sets it apart from the Deikun faction’s AMS-119 Geara Doga, which focused on quantity; this model hinted at its primary function: high-performance acts of terror in limited numbers.
>In terms of simple catalog specifications, this unit’s performance surpasses even the RF-series of the Mars Independent Zeon Forces. Of course, the AMS-119 and RF-series have the advantage in cost and production efficiency, and they can’t be directly compared (it’s like comparing a family car to a sports car).
The Zaku III Late Type is still superior to Geara Dogas or even the RF series (presumably not the Charles Gelgoog) and I assume this goes for Moon Gundam's Zaku IV too. If late types are better than most RFs then it shouldn't take too big a skill gap to defeat a Heavygun.

>>23333303
My that I mean I assume Moon's Zaku IVs are also superior to most RFs. Given the vast asteroid mining capable of making entire space colonies, question how luxury car these are in that analogy. Even twice or five times more expensive should have maintenance and production time be more imporant when you have the industry to shit giant ships out.

>>23314167 (OP)
Just because they use a mix of civilian and Jegan parts doesn't make them open source. The average civilian don't have access to Jegan parts. I would imagine the most important and difficult to procure would being the generator.

>>23333337
Depends on who's making it. A captured RF Zaku in Fastest Formula had them analyze it and say everything could be made in a civilian car factory if they had materials and blueprints. This implies knowledge on making MS-grade steel and reactors are in the blueprints too.

>>23333404
Like I get where they're going with that but it's kind of retarded to say that a car factory could build mobile suits when cars are made out of lightweight mild steel and is not the same thing as a foundry that produces giant alloy slabs of gundarium or titanium. Even car factories don't produce engines, they ship them in from elsewhere and just attach them to the chassis/body, and weld/fasten together parts. It's sort of like saying a high school metal-working shop could manufacture a fighter jet if there was a universal standard for it.

I think it would have been fine if they said junk shops or facilities that can work on junior MS or those small launch shuttles could also manufacture full size MS parts, and it'd also be a subtle jab as to how Buch got started salvaging scrap parts and a few decades later they were able to manufacture their own MS.

>>23333417
Given it's space, minovski reactors everywhere, asteroid mining and whole colonies made from them, I bet a sufficiently industrialized colony can singlehandedly shit on many IRL countries in industry. Not Moon Moon.
>cars are made out of lightweight mild steel and is not the same thing as a foundry that produces giant alloy slabs of gundarium or titanium
The cards in Gundam I assume are made of material they mined or extracted through asteroids or bought from nearby industry colonies who do. These need their spaceships to get asteroids to mine.

>>23333417
>I think it would have been fine if they said junk shops or facilities that can work on junior MS or those small launch shuttles could also manufacture full size MS parts
I think that's the implication. There's a mention of how RF series reuses components that could be found in Jegans, Gustav Karls, Geara Dogas and Geara Zulus.

>>23333337
>>23333404
This is Late UC Gundam so there's different MS production groups including new ones to FF. Some of them offer competing designs to Anaheim, some of them target civilians with worker machines, etc. It's doubtful all of them have military-grade (and not bottom bidder) armor and parts but there's a growing MS industry with newcomers trying to challenge Anaheim's near-monopoly besides SNRI.

>>23333501
Karcharias that was mentioned in that pic is a product of one of those as well.
Except it is roughly the same size as F90 (and got a mobile armor transformation).

>>23333306
>Given the vast asteroid mining capable of making entire space colonies, question how luxury car these are in that analogy. Even twice or five times more expensive should have maintenance and production time be more imporant when you have the industry to shit giant ships out.
This is why it's always confusing what's with
>muh Axis resources low
They literally have a giant Asteroid full of minerals and resources to build entire fleets. They mine their own home before, during, and after combat. Luna 2 was dragged from the Asteroid belt to build the Colonies. Pretty sure Axis Asteroid makes material cost of mobile suits irrelevant. Compared to older asteroids that had already been mined clean like Pezun, A Baoa Qu, and Solomon, Axis was a fairly new acquisition by Zeon so they were still mining the hell out of it for resources. And maybe they also had some of the resources that M'Quve sent into space back to Side 3, which M'Quve famously said would be able to let Zeon fight for "another ten years".

>>23337350
Who says Axis has few resources? I mean, they aren't as wide and expansive as the Feds, but they were just building a ton of high end MS by the end. If the basic bitch Jegan with upgrades can last until F91, then suits like the Doven Wolf and Zaku III could do the same if not better. They wouldn't lose to CV designs in terms of firepower, but only in terms of efficiency. A Jegan is nothing special with the conventional rifle and saber loadout, but Doven Wolf, Geymalk, Qubeley types could in theory deal better with beam shield equipped CV MS by overpowering or bypassing the shield with firepower from different angles.

>>23337489
Criticisms on /m/ all over the place about how expensive and less practical the later series like zaku iiis and doven wolfs are. BS to me.

>>23333306
funny thing is Colony Durability is more than literally anything else the thing Gundam fucks up the most when it comes to scientific accuracy, a properly built O'Neill Colony Cylinder would basically be all but invincible to basically any MS carried weapon and all but the heaviest WMD's(a Colony Laser or something like GENESIS) would barely scratch the thing, both because the materials used to make it would be pretty durable in their own rights(the "glass" parts for example would probably be some sort of transparent alloy instead), and because of the sheer quantity of materials used, like at even the thinnest points there would be dozens of meters worth of material between the vacuum of space and the inside of the colony and at that degree of thickness even ship scale Mega Particle Cannons or Nukes would barely even scratch the colony let alone the catastrophic damage Gundam usually depicts fighting in and around colonies to cause

>>23323998
I hate Hasegawa and his love for Jupiter. It makes me wish Polka Gundam is made. Glad Turn A destroyed their shitty civilization.

>>23337614
I mean there is a reason why the Twin Buster Rifle and The X cannon are funnily enough more realistic since they are true Colony killers.

>>23337489
>>23337597
If anything the doven wolf’s successor the rebun wolf is exactly what the zeeks needed, it was highly modular and was even compatible with woundwort parts

>>23337489
>>23337597
Look at what they actually built in numbers. Mostly it was Gaza Cs and Ds and most of those were wiped out.
It was mainly a newtype corps and some highly skilled people like Rakam that were left by ZZ. Char killed a lot of their pilots with ones of his Super cannon shots. Axis just had more will to fight and control compared to the Feds and AEUG leftovers.
>>23337350
>>23333306
Axis's real power is manpower compared to anything else. Which is why their clone newtype corps was necessary when a lot of their pilots just like the other powers was wiped out in the gryps war.

>>23337645
>Axis's real power is manpower
Axis's real shortage is manpower. Derp. That's why what was essentially a newtype corps full of teenage kids that was the first ever Gundam team plus a small scale civil war essentially wiped out the first neo zeon.

>>23337489
There's all sorts of
>Doven Wolf and Zaku III expensive
including Char Neo Zeon resorting to cheap ass Geara Dogas that die to vulcans. He only had Axis for a short time but there's asteroids to pull and mine everywhere.

But the biggest part IMO are mobile armors and how much they could've gone harder. They could've gone even more expensive with machines loaded with i-field shields to compensate for size and all.

>>23337645
>Axis's real power is manpower compared to anything else
They had like 30,000~ people max including women and children. They got into that same OYW Zeon rut where they had advanced machines but their most experienced were dead or dying while most of the best machines were going to relative newbies. Zaku IIIs and Doven Wolfs being better than Geara Dogas but worse for mass production would be rational as a move to make the best out of each man they had unless they planned more and more Purus. Like enough Purus that if they won and they survived to breed, 50 years form now half their population has Puru DNA.

>>23337713
See>>23337661
i mistyped and corrected.

>>23337350
I'm wondering why RF Gelgoogs are supposed to be rare ace machines too expensive for most. Mars Zeon spent around 30 years unmolested by the Feds. They had time to mine, develop, and make that Olympus Mons cannon. Did the AoZ fights eat up everyone's resources? What are these massive material costs for them?

>>23337703
>There's all sorts of >Doven Wolf and Zaku III expensive including Char Neo Zeon resorting to cheap ass Geara Dogas that die to vulcans.Dogas that die to vulcans.
What does that even have to do with Axis Zeon? Char's Neo Zeon is a separate group. It's not like Char inherited anything from Haman's organization.

>He only had Axis for a short time but there's asteroids to pull and mine everywhere.
Axis was essentially a mobile colony with tens of thousands of workers, they can actually mine an asteroid and process materials in a reasonable amount of time. Char's Neo Zeon army has like a dozen warships and 80 MS, there's like maybe only a thousand people max. This is why Char paid Anaheim to build their army, it'd take them a decade or two to work out everything from scratch again by themselves with just that few people.

>>23337755
It's just silly handwave explanation for why they couldn't just standardize on one decent MS for everyone. Instead they need to copy everything Zeon did in the OYW, for better or worse, including building out a class of inferior MS just for the dregs of their army.

>>23337764
>What does that even have to do with Axis Zeon? Char's Neo Zeon is a separate group. It's not like Char inherited anything from Haman's organization.
Char had remnants from Haman and Glemy join him like Illia. In Moon Gundam, before all the Geara Dogas were ready he employed new Gaza-Gs because the Gaza infrastructure existed and Zaku IVs pic. Char basically scavenged tons of existing Haman Neo Zeon infrastructure and manpower that remained.

Char had enough manpower left over that the Sleeves inherited them and a handful went to Mars. He alaso had Anaheim's backing and a number of Char's suits and ships were brand new. But his big deal was a small handful of attacks including dropping Axis and not anything close to a standard war nor another Gryps or Haman Zeon war. He wanted forced evacuation into space and no prolonged conflict.

>>23337703
>>23337764
Char and the Second Neo Zeon's resources aren't depleted, just fairly limited. Remember, while some people did support them and they were based out of the Sweetwater colony, it's not like any other colonies openly went and joined his forces during the war. However, they clearly do have the support of Anaheim, who, as always, play both sides of the conflict (While they're building the Federations new Jegans, they also built the Neo Zeon Geara Doga's). Char's fleet consists of the Rewloola, about a dozen Musaka class cruisers and (IIRC) roughly a hundred Geara Doga's (And of course, a handful of other units, like the Jagd Doga's and whatnot), all of which were deployed during the war, nothing was shown left behind to guard anything and they don't seem to have the numbers to do that anyway.
>>23337789
>He wanted forced evacuation into space and no prolonged conflict.
That's probably Char's greatest strength. While it was stupid for the Feds to give him what he wanted to appease, part of the reason Char came as close as he did to dropping Axis is because everyone knew Char had no way of waging conventional war. Geara Dogas are nowhere near capable of wiping out hordes of Jegans and GM IIIs. So he was underestimated until the last moment because the Federation knew he couldn't build up enough forces to conventionally challenge them and there wasn't much of a solution or fallback regardless of how successful he launches another attack but Char only cared to get them into space and not if his people got retaliation after.

That said, none of Zeta, ZZ, CCA, Unicorn, Hathaway, or any of those conflicts were balls out OYW in scale. Lost half of everything during the OYW. Had most of their ships nuked in 0083. Gave pretty much everything to the Titans from 0084 to 0088. Too tired post Gryps war to deal with Haman. By the second Neo Zeon War, they probably wanted to get things over with, and as usual didn't learn from past mistakes. cont

>>23337804
cont

None of the Neo Zeons had the goal to beat the Federation's vast numbers. Haman had that party in Dakar with all those Federation leaders and before Glemy ruined her, at least outwardly looked like someone they should sue for peace rather than risk taking in a long fight. Even Full Frontal wanted the colonies to economically embargo the Federation and Earth, effectively starving them rather than straightforward fight.

So Haman and Char's goals were different enough that each other's ways wouldn't work. Haman wasn't out to force everyone into space by ramming Axis into Earth like A Baoa Qu, Char could've just taken those nukes and everything else he got and not tried dropping Axis but that's not his goal. Char was always playing this underhanded trick up his sleeve, much like pretending to be a friend to the Zabis as he was killing them off.
>too expensive
is a bad reason for Char given he had colonies like Sweetwater and took Axis and could've had it mined further before dropping. But
>I want to catch the Feds with their pants down
that is a good reason.

If you consider the position of the Feds, it is quite irrational strategically for Char to be dropping Axis on them anyway, because that would mean pretty much the end of Zeon as we know it. And knowing the Char from AEUG, it seems pretty natural for them to think that Char would just want Axis back as a stronghold for themselves at least until their next build up again, which will take a considerable amount of time. Giving them Axis, at least to them, would be a quick way to resolve the dispute and they get a good amount of gold for it, which the Feds would need anyway after fighting all those wars. And this is not even considering how corrupted and inept the Feds are themselves, which would make this more likely to happen.

>>23337755
>RF Gelgoogs descended from RF Zaku Late Types which are RFs + F90 data
>RF Zakus are made to be so easy to produce that hypothetically all you need are civilian infrastructure but clearly the new additions don't retain that
>or they just suck
>while they had spies everywhere, stolen data from many sources, etc
>and 30 years of time to stockpile resources while entire gundam media like unicorn and hathaway's flash make it very clear earth is on life support with the colonies providing for earth much more than vice versa
I think Mars Zeon just suck at their jobs.

>>23337489
>but they were just building a ton of high end MS by the end
No, by the end they struggled to make new MS, so they had to use whatever they got. They bought Hizacks, Marasais, refurbished old Gelgoogs into Regelgus, while their engineers scrambled to create a new low cost MS prototypes, which would eventually be used by Anaheim as a starting point for Geara Doga.

>>23337755
RF Gelgoogs aren't that much better than RF Zaku IIRC (except for Charles' Custom, but that should be obvious).
It was never about the cost or anything. They are more of a status symbol.

>>23337755
Is the red one done yet?

>>23338569
It was.
>https://www.mahq.net/oms-14rf/
>A high performance mobile suit used by the Oldsmobile Army during the early UC 0120s, the OMS-14RF RF Gelgoog (“RF” being short for “ReFined”) bore a strong resemblance to the MS-14A Gelgoog used by the old Principality of Zeon during the One Year War in UC 0079. Despite its looks, the RF Gelgoog was up to par in terms of modern performance standards, even exceeding the mass produced contemporary OMS-06RF RF Zaku used by most Oldsmobile troops. However, the RF Gelgoog was a very costly unit, and it was only produced in limited numbers, with these units relegated to use by high-ranking officers or ace pilots.

>>23340794
Sounds like a rival for Gustav Karl.

>>23314167 (OP)
Sounds like it should be a relatively common thing, to disguise mech as obsolete for surprise at least

>>23314167 (OP)
The part that confuses me with all these in-universe articles is performance. They keep on saying how the RFs can defeat Jegans but lose against Heavyguns but their appearances in manga show them utterly dominating Jegans hard yes but also fighting very well against Heavyguns. A random RF Zaku had reactor output better than a Heavygun once. Surprise? Retroactive Federation propaganda?

It's like how we keep on seeing Zaku IIs outspeed GMs in Origin. What's going on?

>>23346656
>Retroactive Federation propaganda?
They are written by proto-Zanscare loyalists, so I doubt it.
>What's going on?
MS in stories perform to the will of the author amd it is usually chalked up to the pilot skills.
And also, in the end RF series were beaten primarily by Jegans.

>>23337789
>Zaku V is made from reverse-engineered Zanscare and Crossbone Vanguard suit tech

>>23346696
>proto-Zanscare loyalists
That implies a severe lack of sanity given the batshit insanity of Zanscare.

>>23346981
The same goes for all spacenoids...
But at least they can appreciate the Jegan.

>>23347159
Next one should be coming out relatively soon

>>23347159
Safe to say the article didn't know how much Anaheim robbed Char with Geara Doga armor that loses to vulcans because 2 Geara Dogas for every Jegans might as well be 1 to 1.

>>23347227
Jegan armor was equally shit. Zeeks just weren't as lucky with their shots.

>>23347159
Keep it up and Zeonic is going to be fucking pissed you're posting his precious Patreon secrets here. I'd rather not deal with a fuming faggot

>>23347382
Oh, you're telling me he'd go all Zimmad?

>>23314167 (OP)
Should've found a way to mass-puruduce spacenoid pussy. That's Zeon's #1 strength they failed to leverage.

>>23347947
>puruduce
Heh

>>23314167 (OP)
How hard is it to make MS? There's facilities servicing them for local colony defense everywhere. There's asteroids to mine everywhere and mobile workers everywhere too. Sometimes both at once because Axis did that. Is the big problem getting supply lines up and running and making good ones?

>>23350083
>Is the big problem getting supply lines up and running and making good ones?
Pretty much.

>>23350083
Methinks that's the biggest upside about RF Zakus. So long as you have some bare minimum infrastructure and ability to acquire resources, the information on RFs is all you need to produce a machine that's not super optimal but far more up to date than random OYW Zeon Remnants with Zaku IIs or Axis Remnants and Gazas.

>>23350083
You just need to figure out how to make stable, safe miniature fusion reactors. Not a big deal, you can find engineers to do that anywhere.

>>23347159
>Once decomissioned, many units were sold off to police forces, such as MHA, or to private security companies.
Since the MHA Jegan already looks neat, I'd love to see how those security companis tricked out their Jegans.

>>23350634
companies*

>>23350621
Given it's UC Gundam and Minovski reactors are used by so many colonies, there's bound to be some experts on making or maintaining them.

>>23350634
>>23350641
Here's some of them, by Birnam.

>>23338295
The Hizack is on Earth where Neo Zeon mostly relied on remnants to do the fighting for them, and the Regelg ostensibly existed before Axis even came back to Earth but in the context of ZZ the OG Gelgoog was more threatening than it had ever been in the original unless it was piloted by Char so it's not like an upgraded Gelgoog is some shitbot, the box art for the 1/144 also somewhat contradicts the manual's trainer machine backstory by saying they built cutting edge performance Gelgoogs for symbolic reasons. It's worth keeping in mind as well that from a production standpoint the Zaku III was supposed to be a modified Zaku II like the desert types to reuse molds until it wasn't, and the Regelg (and the Gazus) just managed to survive without turning into a completely new design. Basically it's the Zeon equivalent of the GM III rather than an antique.

>>23314167 (OP)
I'm curious if any other timeline will ever intentionally proliferate knowledge on MS production to make it open source.

>>23351573
I dunno about open-sourcing (as well as what exactly it means in context), but in both UC and Age we saw school students making junior mobile suits in clubs, so I'd assume that the knowledge is common to a degree.
To add to that, in both of those timelines, there are MS sports, which could play a role in that.

>>23321415
Indeed, Mars had way more shit going on than before.

>>23351921
Gelgoog III sex

>>23350083
There's MS engineers EVERYWHERE really. Not just Anaheim engineering schools training Banagher and his buddy who strapped rockets to the Unicorn's ass but any random bunch of remnants might have people who know how to maintain their gear. A sufficiently large fleet of Zeon Remnants like OP's Legacy fleet from Fastest Formula, to Mars Zeon and ReZeon, even the Sleeves got lots from Anaheim then leftovers but the Rozen Zulu doesn't seem Anaheim and especially not the OVA's Neo Zeong. Even those who don't already know could hypothetically learn given engineers exist and can teach.

In practice, there's always engineering and secrets which individual factories themseles are unlikely to know. It being the future probably means blueprints are encrypted and production plants have emergency shutdowns in the event terrorists find a way to capture a whole production colony. Unless big name factory are forced at gunpoint to produce mechs for terrorists like WWII Nazi Germany's captured factories, I bet they'd just laugh and deny said production plan vital supplies necessary.

And yeah, there's the huge problem making good ones. The Gazas were offshoots from the Zeon equivalent of a Ball. Most mobile workers are decommissioned surplus like Hobby Hizacks that won't have anywhere near modern specs even if they weren't intentionally disarmed. RFs being intentionally widespread to Zeon and spacenoid freedom sympathizers is absolutely a move that wouldn't just yield no profit but negative as local colonies have a local competitor to Anaheim, SNRI, and even second-hand salesmen. So there's no corporate-motivated reason, only ideological. Unless someone intentionally leaks and especially if nobody develops new shit, then the uphill battle is making good designs when everyone else hogs all the info..

>>23352195
This.

>>23338096
it is more than likely that with multiple waves of refugees/dissidents from the earth sphere that Mars Zeon was not actually undisturbed for 30 years, but was involved in multiple power struggles. Gundam Inle has just one example of a rival faction cropping up, but with how zeeks are its practically inevitable

>>23352373
Cluster implies fucktons of losers all wound up there.

Did anything show what happened to Mafty remnants? FF showed some new resistances from after Mafty.

>>23352562
Not sure but it would be cool to at least see a few meesers around, maybe have an image of one fighting a heavygun or G-cannon

>>23352562
You mean EGUM?
It predates Mafty, those guys are from Hi-Streamer.

>>23352849
??? He's not asking about the OTHER resistances, he's asking what happened to Mafty members

>>23352873
No, I just wondered about what kind of new resistances from FF >>23352562 meant.
I got no idea if there are works that mention Mafty remnants.

>>23352562
There's no explicitly stated Mafty remnant group. But Rue Rahvata rose up shortly after Mafty's Rebellion, have a similar modus operandi and their example MS incorporates a bunch of Messer parts so there's an implication that they're at least linked somehow. However Rue Rahvata was also noted to operated in the colonies so even if there's a direct connection they're unlikely to be straight up just Mafty remnants.
I don't think they've been mentioned in Cluster yet, but given the current themes and topics I wouldn't be surprised.

Semi-related question: anybody knows what MS is the one on the right? It seems a sort of half-tank model.
Picture from the latest F90 Cluster installment in the current Gundam Ace issue.

>>23353864
RMV-3 Guntank III from Burning Pursuit gamebook from 1986.
They fucking love these autistically deep cuts, and I love them for it.

>>23353864
Wife (on the left)

>>23353869
Thanks a lot!

>>23353864
>>23353869
That’s fucking crazy, the monthly mobile machine already had mentioned the RGM90x jeda improved type and the improved armor jegan’s from the B club magazine, but this is not only even more obscure, but a direct appearance too

>>23353847
>>23353864
These recent later UC manga are having so many callbacks and old suits. Not even Unicorn did this much, though drawing must be easier than animating with color.

>>23353895
I feel like Unicorn kinda kicked off this trend, we've been getting a lot ot stuff like this ever since.

>>23353963
It makes some sense though that everyone everywhere doesn't have up to date mechs. In Zeta and ZZ there were still Axis Zaku IIs.

>>23347263
Yeah but the Jegan looks much cooler than the Doga so it wins by default.

>>23353981
It didn't take long for Federation to make a cooler Geara Doga than both.
EFF always knows how to cook Zeon-style MS the best.

>>23354022
Wait, both are Anaheim so was this Anaheim favoritism and laughing on the way to the bank with Char's money?

>>23314167 (OP)
How much do we know about between F91 and Victory anyway? There's like 30 years between.

>>23354850
Most of it is Hasegawa territory so what he writes is what ends up being the lore because it's all there is, there isn't much in the way of other writers to flesh out the era. Most we ever got were maybe some databooks and the Monthly Mobile articles that are written from a UC 140s perspective.

>>23354842
Anaheim Electronics was notorious to play both sides and hold no loyalties to any faction due to AE absorbing Zeonic and Zimmad factories and employees after the One Year War.

The uncontrollable traitorous nature of AE is why the Federation started funding other manufacturers like SNRI

>>23354842
Anaheim isn't a monolith. Jegan could've been made at Von Braun (where Nu was made), while Geara Doga could've been made at Granada (which is the Lunar city with historically the most Zeon supporters and where majority of Zeonic staff ended at).
You should probably also consider than both Jegan and Geara Doga were likely made with heavy input from people that commisioned them. If you'd read a little blurb about regular Geara Doga Kai on the picture you posted you'd see that it is a version with better armor, but also the one Char's Neo Zeon couldn't really afford to buy in needed quantity.

>>23355012
>AE absorbing ... Zimmad factories and employees
There's something interesting about this, because there are a few instances in Cluster where Zimmad is mentioned as a separate entity from Anaheim and maybe even making their own mobile suits. Perhaps they managed to split?

>>23355032
wiki says they brought into AE but allowed to still operate as a subsidiary under the name AE/ZIM. I haven't read F90 Cluster yet though so I don't know about that part

>>23355032
It's entirely possible that entire divisions of AE are staffed by former Zeonic and Zimmad employees. That's kind of the only way you can get up to the kind of fuckery where AE can be playing both the AEUG and Titans at the same time and how Char shows up with 15 new warships and 100 new MS in the early 0090s despite not having any military bases or shipyards or factories under his direct control.

>>23355096
Yep, AE/ZIM term shows up in model kit booklets and other lore like that as part of weapon and inventory model number codes. Here's the clay bazooka model code, for example.

>>23355026
>Char's Neo Zeon couldn't really afford to buy in needed quantity.
I blame Char's need for underaged spacenoid girls. He could've settled for the less expensive legal aged hookers but he insisted on having Lalah or younger ages.

nobody posted the MMM yet?

>>23314167 (OP)
You don't get any bitches
You don't get laid
Your penis will stop working before you can put it inside a vagina
That will be the most important event (or lack of) in your life, it's either make it or break it. You will cope however you feel necessary.

>>23355537
I love Dijeh, but it must be one of the less exciting themes we got in MM yet, especially since I don't see any SE-R mentions.
The custom looks kinda boring too this time.

>>23355606
I wish. Sex is overrated. A good cuddle is better.

>>23355537
I don't speak moon

>>23355537
>YYOOOOOO !!
Also, I like how they remembered that the Dijeh is smaller than the Rick Dias with different arm sizes

>>23355693
The Dijeh itself is simple but neat. A decades old ace machine that made it through countless fights and switched pilots too.
Plus the lion's share of the article is about Karaba and a big part of that is basically calling out Bandai for never elaborating too much on them. They're not AEUG, some members have different goals, and they're comparable to a secret society.
That's how some Karaba members would get (re)-absorbed into EFF while others would be buddying up with old Zeon Remnants and Titans Remnants years later to support native Earth populations and fight against MHA's forced deportations.

>>23355918
>Stray titans remnants fighting against man hunters
That’s brutally ironic

>>23355932
slightly different flavors of supremacists hate each other's guts, nothing new

>>23355918
>Plus the lion's share of the article is about Karaba and a big part of that is basically calling out Bandai for never elaborating too much on them. They're not AEUG, some members have different goals, and they're comparable to a secret society.
That's cool, but we could get it along with a Guncannon Detector variant or something. Like it's cool that a space version of it cameo'd in FF in hands of EGUM.
Again, my main problem is that the new Dijeh variation looks boring, especially after that sweet MHA Jegan from a month ago. Z-MSV, MSV-R and even Moon Gundam and UC Engage did Dijeh better justice.

>>23353869

>>23356754
Go back to sucking Zeonic cock on Twitter, ass bandit.

>>23356948
Sex with spacenoids is the way of the future.

>>23356026
What kind of supremacists are man hunters? They're just doing a job

>>23358714
oligarch supremacists

>>23358714
Earth this time. All this
>get off my planet, i want a new resort

>>23359048
but who will work the resorts

>>23359059
the people we haven't deported but still put in what amounts to generational debt

>>23359059
Real-life rich people love having illegal immigrants under their employ while criticizing other people for using them. They get to underpay them and treat them to illegal conditions under the threat of deporting.

>>23359069
no shit why do you think I was concerned about who will be working the resorts if the resort staff are deported

>>23359102
resort staff's children, of course

>>23359106
that just sounds like children's brothels in side 3 except with fewer steps and closer to home

>>23359118
works on space rats, it can work on the poors too

>>23314167 (OP)
>Is late UC just filled with random outdated-looking machines that are better than Jegans?
Zudah bros, it's our time.

>>23359131
Mega Boost tester
https://x.com/OIGAMI_P/status/1876301565029761134

>>23359134
The BIG nyoom..

>>23359118
If Char wanted people into space, he should've told everyone the best pussy is spacenoid pussy.

>>23359350
While Char absolutely could preach something he doesn't believe in, he can't betray the memory of Lalah.

>>23355537
Given the Zeon tech in the Dijeh and the RF knowledge being widespread, I bet an RF Dijeh exists somewhere in UC.

You guys are slacking, latest chapter revealed the X mission pack

>>23360320
And for mobile suit enthusiasts out there, these likely were later utilized as the thrusters for the crossbone series as its said they can form an X shape

>>23360320
Why is this top secret and teased for so long. It's honestly not too special

>>23360405
I think there’s more too it than meets the eye, next chapter will probably get into greater detail on how this mission pack works, although it definitely screams crossbone gundam

>>23360327
>>23360475
I thought Crossbone was based on Y, but I guess it could be both.

>>23360528
Y is the primary basis for the structure with a horizontal core fighter, but we know other mission packs contributed too.

>>23359986
Unironically zero point in that. Performance won't really change much and it is easier to just upgrade existing ones.
It's like saying that there should be an RF Doven Wolf. That thing is already better than all the RF stuff out of the box.

>>23360544
depends by what metric. Sheer firepower, obviously yes. Mobility, not so much.
But most importantly, production and maintenance. RF units can be built in generic industrial factories using a large portion of pre-existing parts from various sources so it's both relatively cheap and simple while being hard to trace.

>>23360566
>depends by what metric. Sheer firepower, obviously yes. Mobility, not so much.
I wouldn't question either after Narrative.
>But most importantly, production and maintenance. RF units can be built in generic industrial factories using a large portion of pre-existing parts from various sources so it's both relatively cheap and simple while being hard to trace.
They were originally made with whatever Karaba had at the moment, so it shouldn't be that different in that regard.

>>23360544
If Rick Dijehs can be frankensteined like pic, then repairing old Dijehs would be easier by slapping an RF Zaku arm. There's also the issue of creating new ones for any reason (i.e. disguising yourself as Gryps Era remnants but actually have better gear than CCA)

>>23360592
It's a mobile suit fit for an ace. Dijeh isn't meant for large scale mass production, it's still derived from Rick Dias and just too pricy for that. But it's not too pricy to be Karaba's backbone, something to support the GM IIs and Nemos as Titans deploy new transformable MS or MA one after another. Something to even the odds even if it's unlikely there'd be many. In that sense it's closer to the Zeta instead of ZZ farting out another Hyaku Shiki just like Char's.

Karaba had its own engineers, support from Anaheim via their California factories, possible Liuo & Co assistance, additional data provided by AEUG and Amuro helping out so while pretty broke compared to many other factions, they had support too. The AEUG and by extension Anaheim gave them assistance every now and then and by the time they got the Deijeh, they were much better off than back when Amuro was in a Rick Dias. Maybe Liuo & co helped or they just produced/bought old Hyaku Shiki and Dijehs because they had modified units in Moon and Narrative.

>>23360592
I was talking about RF Doven Wolf, sorry if it wasn't clear.

IIRC Karaba and AEUG both lacked major manufacturing firms/plants meaning they wouldn't be able to MP their own units. AE backed the AEUG/Karaba, so they produced all their Nemos and Rick Dias and whatnot for them on the moon. Even if Anaheim didn't agree to back Karaba, the AEUG left them Rick Diases, Nemos, and other help anyway so they still transitively did. There's also the point that the Earth Federation was sort of working alongside Karaba and AEUG during the First Neo Zeon War with the old GMs made into GM IIIs.

>>23360697
With a team of engineers, you can frankenstein mobile suits however you want in general. You could put a Gelgoog armor on Nemo, Zaku head on Zeta, kitbash Psycho Zaku with Gundam parts and call it Perfect Gundam... actually scratch the last one, it is reaching. But yeah, just look at Crossbone Dust suits.
The hardest part would be adjusting the operating system/reteaching the learning computer how to move effectively (unless you got BUNNyS).
As for a disguise part, what you need is just armor, though there isn't that big of a return to disguise itself as an ace tier MS from Gryps Era, seeing as that they never stopped being relevant on the battlefield at least until Cosmo Babylonia war.

>>23360724
I know it's easy to be cynical about the Hyaku Shiki in ZZ just being to recycle the design and plastic out of universe but considering both AE and the Argama already have spare parts for it, just slapping together a backup machine to fill out the Gundam Team's numbers is pretty practical for the situation they're in.

>>23360725
Ah, that makes a little bit more sense.
Still, I feel like everyone misses the point of RF MS. You're not making a modern copy of an old mobile suit that got all the same strengths and better in every way. You're just making a new mobile suit that at a glance looks like an old mobile suit. That's all.
So RF Doven Wolf wouldn't be anything like the original one. At best it will be able to scare the opponent into thinking that he fights the real deal.
Actually, now that I think about it, it's a cool idea. Kinda like reverse Gundam Heads.

>>23360739
>though there isn't that big of a return to disguise itself as an ace tier MS from Gryps Era, seeing as that they never stopped being relevant on the battlefield at least until Cosmo Babylonia war.
Fasted Formula had a bunch go AEUG remnants lose badly to modern MS. And I mean very, very badly.

>>23360697
>disguising yourself as Gryps Era remnants but actually have better gear than CCA
Hobby Hizack would be perfect. So long as you can find a way to get arms or have secret compartments with guns, nobody would suspect.
>>23360774
Early RFs are intentionally emulating the style, enough to be smuggled as mobile workers because Anaheim continues using Zaku IIs the same way decommissioned military hardware becomes civilian. OP's article also says how after Mafty, a culture sprang up that began seeing Zakus as a guardian of spacenoids while the Gundam's oppressor. This combined with existing Zeon Remnants and anti-earth sentiments would've given old Zeon or oldschool machines a retroactive positive look and thus a desire to ape their style. But functionally, the RFs do adopt similar roles like RF Doms for earth operations, RF Z'Goks for sea, and even RF Gyans with hardly much in ranged weapons. This was because RFs were originally like>>23321415 said about a bunch of OYW era Zeon Remnants getting Geara Dogas samples.

Now they're a widespread open source project with several spacenoid factions and corporations involved moving to armed resistance.

>>23360774
Do an RF Sazabi or Sinanju to scare people into thinking Char or Full Frontal survived and now returned.

>>23360818
IIRC they mostly got weak-ish grunts and RF suits were there too and haven't faired much better.
At the end of the day, I'd call it story convinience more than anything.

>>23314167 (OP)
It might get worse given during Fastest Formula's events a ton of data got stolen and maybe leaked.

>>23360960
It was mostly Nemos and Rick Dias and one guy who helped at first with a new mech but quickly left because everyone know it was a last hurrah suicide attack. There weren't RFs. The protagonist team were heavily outnumbered and initially had trouble with the onslaught of beams in a fleet battle but then they were able to turn tables. In other words the AEUG remnants lost badly fully knowing they're not going to survive.

>>23361046
If anything they performed far better than expected, which was as you say because they knew it was their last ride out.

>>23361101
It was a balls-out attack with blatantly suicidal tactics, on a fleet scale nothing like what the Fastest Formula had fought before. It got them off guard. If they weren't so insistent on going out in a blaze of glory, they could've lasted longer and improved their weapons. Nemos and Rick Dias were very good for the start of Gryps but over time the arms race left them behind.

>>23361116
They knew they had no future, it was their last shot to give their lives any value

>>23361116
>It was a balls-out attack
I wouldn't call it that.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that it had no Balls.

>>23360725
The RF Kampfer had quasi-psychommu like the Doven Wolf and fought well against the F90 so they can hypothetically make an RF Doven Wolf that's more cost efficient and probably slightly better.

>>23362692
Already is a thing, called Reben Wolf, designed with data from Axis prototypes that eventually became Geara Doga, so can likely use the same parts as it and RF series.

>>23362959
Reben Wolf came from AoZ which takes at least a decade before RFs were a thing. OP's edition of RFs were made before Mars Zeon got involved. Now that I think of it, this all implies Mars Zeon mostly ditched their AoZ era machines and went with RF versions of OYW suits even before they got the F90 Unit 2 and added its data into the RFs.

>>23363061
Probably lost them in the civil war. It's sort of implied that Mars was largely demilitarized in the U.C. 0100s with things like miniaturized psycommu being considered "lost technology"

>>23360320
>two Gundams one pack

>>23363233
Their appearances in >>23351921 mean they do exist, it's just nobody picked at the broken parts for anything to reverse-engineer even if all records of them or how to make them were lost. Seems oddly poetic that Mars Zeon failed partially because they spent all their resources blowing each other and ReZeon up instead of having all those machines functional, possibly upgraded, and fighting. The defenders would've had an easier time if there were Gelgoog IIIs or Reben Wolfs, maybe upgraded, that can burst out of nowhere and ambush invading Feds.

So how many of the translated Monthly Mobile Machine pages are out now? I've collected 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 32, and a few other sorta related MS Journal page scans.

>>23363582
From what there is publically available there's also 3, translated version of 11, text version of 15 >>23333303 and 29. There's also a second page of MS Journal 2 if you don't have it.
I actually never noticed that 25 got skipped. What was it about again?

>>23364027
Translated version of 11 actually got posted here already >>23354842

>>23364040
>MS-06 far outperforms RGM-79 in close combat
This sounds like terrible skill issue given each GM has data from Amuro enhancing them.

>>23364239
Pre modern retcons putting the GM on par with the zaku ii, in terms of specs the only thing the zaku ii has over it is the fluid pulse system, right?

>>23364239
>>23364382
That's just the eternal seesaw between basing everything on the TV series where GMs are worthless red shirt mooks that explode if you look at them and some degree of reasonableness as subsequently added to Gundam III. This choice of interpretation also affects all subsequent works themselves, with shows like 0080 or Unicorn having even the coolest most bad ass MSV derivative GMs function as glorified target boards and others like 0083 having them as main cast caliber MS.

>>23364027
MG soon?

>>23364447
I'd imagine Mars Gundam N-type and X pack would take priority, but that could happen.

>>23364493
I’d prefer V before N

>>23364524
It's both.
V here means F90 Unit 5 and AFAIK Mars Hull Fighter works exclusively with it.
I mean, if you prefer to pay twice...

>>23364027
>>23364035
>>23364040
Much appreciated, gentlemen

F92 when?

>>23364027

>>23363582
Anyone have a TL for this?

>>23366728
there was a simplified version in a thread here a while back >>23163355
no fancy shmancy full translation from Zeonic yet afaik

>>23314167 (OP)
The reactor of early-type RFs are at least on par with Heavyguns. Maybe Heavygun reactors are just as powerful but smaller but otherwise, this says bad things about Heavygun output.

>>23333417
>It's sort of like saying a high school metal-working shop could manufacture a fighter jet if there was a universal standard for it.
In UC at least, there appears to be a sufficiently widespread universal standard that even civilian hardware uses to the point this is possible. Couple that with Late UC more and more companies getting in on Mobile Suit production and we have a mess where random factories anywhere might secretly be producing untraceable parts.

>>23366773
Heavygun is pretty much a smaller Jegan. Now, that's a really fucking good thing since it's an extremely economical replacement for a suit with decades of service but it also means it doesn't push the envelope... too much. In practice it's still more agile, faster and more modular than any Jegan variant and it's superior to most early type RF units. These were intended to engage in guerilla and terrorist warfare, mainly fighting backline garrison units like Jegans and BR-GMs. Having comparable energy gain is very impressive, but it doesn't make them on par.

>>23366785
Jegan Normal Type in F91 have better reactors than CCA Jegans and Heavyguns have better reactors too. Random terrorists in the middle of nowhere can slap together reactors comparable to Heavyguns, which means at minimum better than a Jegan, lets the clear like 30 years of reactor tech development in an instant without any top secret Anaheim or SNRI secrets needed.

>>23363582

>>23366880
Resolution is too crunched.

>>23363582
https://wiki.biligame.com/gundam/%E6%9C%88%E5%88%8AMOBILE_MACHINE has tons of RAWs

>>23363582

>>23366880

>>23366976
>Galemson's F71 in shown configuration is the closest thing we got to F60
I hate this.

>>23366965
Tiny ass images. Bravo

>>23366965
they're all scanned on the wikia

>>23367376
No TLs there though,

>>23367810
Because Zeonic loses his shit if his translations are uploaded to the cesspool. Can't blame him though. Wiki needs to be nuked.

>>23369660
But he posts some of his on his Twitter too.

>>23314167 (OP)
Besides contests like Kamille won and mass-produced Amuro brain-clones, does anyone in late UC have better training methods? Because its' all
>muh better mech
and you can't make toys of nameless background characters but don't all those insurrectionists care about pilot quality?

>>23371701
>does anyone in late UC have better training methods?
Uso's mommy and daddy do.

>>23371719
Oh right, the horribly traumatized kid surrounded by bikini women. Sweet fuck, he's had one hell of a life filled with /ss/ on every turn.

>>23322719
>The conflicts also ended much of the H3 supply from Jupiter
I assume this is infrastructure that can't be rebuilt in a lifetime because that begs many questions how much was eaten up or destroyed.
>https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=8700
>Jupiter is a distant planet, some 800-million kilometers from Earth. However, the inexhaustible supply of Helium-3 and deuterium was still quite appealing, even despite the distance.
In real life, Jupiter has about 100 parts per million in its atmosphere, and Jupiter's total mass is 1.899 x 10^27 kg, so about 1.899 x 10^23 kg. Gundam Jupiter must either have way less than IRL or some really bad shit must've happened to destroy a HUGE amount of Hellium-3 or render it unusable.

And even if Jupiter is gone, there's still Uranus and more
>https://web.archive.org/web/20090327051914/http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/2006/TM-2006-214122.pdf

>>23371908
Big ESL moment

>>23371908
it's more of a breakdown in government and the helium extraction system than it is jupiter literally not having any helium left

>>23371929
I too am illiterate. I too cannot read legible English.

>>23372017
I am too.

>>23372019
Same

When are we getting more Gunraid variations?

>>23373927
The gunpla is out so DIY by making as much mission pack variants possible, lore wise it’s said it can’t use all of them so it should be fun to figure out which ones it can and cannot use

>RF Kapule

>>23314167 (OP)
My question is if we'd get in-universe Zeta Zaku kitbashes

>>23375244
sure thing, here's your zeta zaku

>>23375640
Cute Super GM in the background!

>>23314167 (OP)
If all this easy acces and open-source, will there be egotistical or obsessive rich people in UC making custom RF MS girls of themselves or their waifu?

>>23314167 (OP)
How does MS manufacturing work given the scale of it all? Anaheim externally looks like a single giant but it's doubtful they have every factory with 1984 telescreens monitoring all the workers. Luio and co have Hyaku Shikis and Dijehs and reverse engineering happens all the time and Anaheim and SNRI woul be hard-pressed to prevent all of it. We can assume smaller factories have only the bare minimum of info and there's software helping prevent theft but jailbroken old software is a thing so how do we know there isn't already a preexisting bootleg market or pirated software market, much like real-life?

>>23382800
They could try licensing. Anaheim got the license to produce SNRI mechs after SNRI got the contract. But that's ripe for making untracked illicit copies.

>>23382800
>Luio and co have Hyaku Shikis and Dijehs and reverse engineering happens all the time
If anything Anaheim probably sold them the MS under the table. Black market exists for MS the same as any other military weapons. Could even be a case of "oh no, the transport carrying these weapons to disposal got hijacked" which happens a lot in Gundam.

>and Anaheim and SNRI woul be hard-pressed to prevent all of it
Half the time it's intentional leaks and some kinda corpo-political maneuvering. Even SNRI eggheads couldn't prevent AE from bastardizing their precious Cannon Gundam.

>>23382800
Anaheim is likely less completely centralized and even the bigwigs will pull shit behind each other's back. Just like IRL.
>>23382988
>"oh no, the transport carrying these weapons to disposal got hijacked"
The Full Frontal solution.

>>23382800
Some of it, like the Nishiki or F70 is legal licensing by the original creator or OEM manufacturing. It's not in Anaheim's interest to remove everyone else from the market, they also want to have other companies they can make deals with.

>>23383232
$20 says it's also an excuse to hide their own shell companies among them for more illicit deals.

Was Anaheim supply Char with all his underaged spacenoid hookers?

>>23382800

>>23385214
Char visited Carbine's Lunar Island suspiciously often.

>>23384965
They don't really need to do that, individual subdivisions of Anaheim's MS division (which is itself a small part of the megacorp as a whole) are practically their own companies and on the off chance any actions are leveled against one it doesn't affect the others anyway.

>>23385823
I get the feeling preventing leaks are near impossible and they can only hope to be up to date or more advanced than the leaks.

alright where's the new late UC thread

>>23387463
Yes

>>23387463
Do we count >>23364589

>>23388688
no, that's tard central
more than usual I mean

>>23388689
We doing Cluster?

>>23388834
Primarily Cluster, but in a broader sense everything past Hathaway until G-Saviour PS2 game.