Thread 4442046

Do you prefer slow compact zooms or fixed pancake lenses?

>>4442046 (OP)
I prefer the superior skin tones, sharpness, build quality, tonality and 3d pop of the sony a7c and viltrox 50mm f2, the current meta.

>>4442046 (OP)
With Sony, you can have both, plus a shutter, a hot shoe, and working autofocus.

>>4442046 (OP)
Any lens that is named after food is great for travel.

>>4442046 (OP)
Tiny compact 50mm f/2s.

>>4442046 (OP)
I like nikon, and instead of traveling, taking photos of my dog in my back yard.

>>4442046 (OP)
I'd pick the Sony in that circumstance. I also didn't know Panasonic were still making cameras that weren't just point and shoot compacts.

>>4442046 (OP)
Zooms:
Pentax 18-135mm.
Pentax 28-105mm.
Primes:
Pentax Limited DA 21mm, 40mm for true pancakes
The Limited DA 35mm is realistically compact enough
The Limited FA 43mm is realistically compact enough

I prefer to have both with me. I'll usually keep the 18-135mm or 28-105mm on my camera and a prime or two in my sling, usually a wide angle prime (e.g. FA 21mm or DA 15mm) and a normal versatile prime (e.g. FA 43mm or DA 35mm).
I don't care much about having pancakes, just appreciate lightweight and compact size. The Pentax Limited series suffice pretty well in this domain. Sigma's i series primes also are strong contenders.

>>4442146
I traveled recently and took my DA 18-135 and FA 80-320 with me.

I felt like I used my 80-320mm the most even at its lowest focal length. Next time I'll just carry a 35mm Prime instead. Anything with lower focal lengths I can just use my phone tbqh.

>>4442148
All you need for travel is a 35mm and a 18-100+ and you're set. Taking two zoom lenses was a really odd choice.

>>4442148
Really depends on your type of travel I suppose.
I can't imagine having a good time without <80mm in an urban environment. 35-50mm is my most common range in those environments.
I'd see an 80-320mm being far more useful in a place like Yellowstone, where you wanna take pictures of hard-to-access nature without leaving the paths, taking pictures of animals, etc.

>>4442046 (OP)
>no pancakes
>smallest zoom has a shitty snapshit focal range
lol, lmao even

>>4442046 (OP)
Don’t. Pancakes are shit. Use your phone instead. Anything except flagship camera & flagship lens (or gimmick lens) was made obsolete by phones.

>>4442211
Sony has the only, and I mean only, FF setup that actually fits in a pocket
>a7c classic + 28mm f4.5
And it doesn't matter because it still weighs down your jacket more than nog-carrying a glock and doesn't fit in pants pockets. Literally no camera with a sensor 1" or larger fits in a pants pocket.

Pancake lenses are fashion purchases for women and homosexuals who want things to be "small and cute", nothing more.

>>4442228
the 35mm f2.8 fits in jacket pockets too. it's the same size as nikon's pancake.

if only canon would get their head out of their ass and make a camera that isn't a six inch tall blob
>muh ergos! arthritic old men have to grip 24-70s comfortably!

>>4442231
They did, it's called the R50 V and it's like Canon didn't know which things to cripple hammer so just did a bunch of random shit. It'll sell like ass then they're never attempt any break away from tradition ever again.

>>4442233
I meant a real full frame camera with real full frame dynamic range, not a toy camera with the DR of micro four thirds.
>probably less because canon has forced NR at almost every ISO

Canon is too obsessed with being a scam brand for the few things they do better than snoy to matter. If you can't afford a decent sony FF compact or don't want your compactness to be limited to a dozen non-macro primes in the 20-90mm range you might as well stick to micro four thirds.

>>4442046 (OP)
Best pancake: Canon or Nikon
Best zoom: Panasonic. Nothing comes close to the 18-40mm. Its even smaller than primes. Literally a miracle FF travel lens.

>>4442342
>wide angle to wide angle
>slow af aperture looks like phone
>all the bodies it attaches to are either oversized, or hilariously crippled and genuinely in "unusable" territory for most photography (lmfao s9/fp)
L mount has been a disgrace, frankly.

>>4442342
holy shit that's a full frame lens? I thought it was a crop lens. that's seriously impressive.

>>4442354
in terms of aperture it is a crop lens, plus its another extendo-zoom. this design trick used to be derided even among mft users but now we're expected to accept garbage extendo-zooms like the nikon, sony and panasonic kit lenses. if my camera isn't ready with a flick of the power switch and nothing else i dont want my camera with me.

>>4442342
Where do I find the best biscuits?

>not just using a ricoh gr
what did they mean by this

>>4442354
>that's seriously impressive
meh, it only looks small because its next to the giant Sony lens

>>4442398
The Sony lens is about the same size and the grey end is literally the part that screws into the camera, where the grey stops is what will ultimately sit flush against the body itself.

>>4442046 (OP)
>Do you prefer slow compact zooms or fixed pancake lenses?
Both. Nikon 28-400mm and 26/2.8 literally covers everything for travel. No other system has a setup like this.

>>4442046 (OP)
With m43 you don't have to choose :)
I take my dji 15mm 1.7 and panny 12-32mm everywhere.

>>4443128
>instantly mogs your foolframe superzoom with a wider range and faster aperture at half the size/weight/price
When will FF fags learn?

>>4443134
>faster aperture
Not how that works friendo. In practice that's an f/7.1-f/13 lens lmao

>>4443134
>wider range
> 4mm
you lol cows are getting desperate

>>4443134
>f7-12.6
>camera bottoms out at "iso 800 equivalent" but because sensors aren't ideal it's more like iso 1000 equivalent vs a z6ii
Lmao it's useless garbage

I love my RF 28 2.8, but I hate with a passion the stepping motors in the RF budget prime lineup. As if updated USM motors was impossible in this day and age.
>Oh you are not satisfied with the 50mm F1.8? Well we do have a slow focusing 50mm F1.2 that weighs as much as it costs? Still not satisified? How about a video-centric 50 1.4 which is made in the same form factor as other lenses for the ease of use on gimbals?
No Canon, I just want a compact 50mm F1.4 with a better focus motor that is not bigger than the EF version.

>>4443155
>Thinks 24mm vs 28mm isnt significant
Found the photo brainlet

>>4443134
>m43 so it's 2MP images max

>>4443196
Wide angles are only for snapshits, and garry winogrand, the snapshit king, preferred 28mm to 24mm because it didn't have excessive perspective distortion. 24mm is in boomer HDR landscape territory. No one needs to go there.

Having an f4-8 zoom instead of an f7-12.6 zoom and a base ISO of 64 or 100 instead of 1000 is more important.

>>4443185
You want a sony lol

>>4443185
There isn't a single full frame pancake lens with a good focus motor. That's how canon makes their 50mm f1.8 the size of sony's 35mm f2.8 and their 28mm f2.8 1/2 the size of sony's 24mm f2.8, by making it as bad as possible at everything but being small.

>>4443185
At least pancakes are actually physically possible on your mount :(

>>4443199
>garry winogrand, the snapshit king, preferred 28mm
He used a Canon in his early days, 28 2.8 LTM. I have one such lens, but I cant find a single howto as to go about when disassembling it. It is cosmetically perfect, but full of oil and haze. Now that is a tiny lens.

>>4443199
>Wide angles are only for snapshits
Wide angles existed long before snapshits. Stupid zoomer.

>>4443252
Wide angle lenses were invented in 2008 by Merkel Sheinbaum. Stop lying.

>>4442046 (OP)
pancakes and small lenses are for homosexuals, travel or not, picrel is how it should go for a real photographer

>>4443224
Sony has a smaller fixed aperture pancake than lumix, with autofocus and f4.5 instead of f8. Why do you leave this out?

Perhaps sony just doesnt want to make a shitty lens that buzzes, extends and zooms to focus since they’re a video brand. Their f1.4 and f1.2 primes are smaller, sharper, and rely on less digital corrections than canon and they have the smaller 28-70 f2 so obviously the mount is fine but first party divested from the junk lens segment.

i just use a 24-120 for everything

>>4443270
Viltrox should have made the f4.5 pancake an f5.6 with an extra baffle to stop out some of the vignetting and corner smears

>>4443247
i think he used a 35mm f1.8 and 28mm f3.5, later a 28mm f2.8
ansel adams used 35/85
lewis baltz used 35/50/85 (and was a notorious pixel peeper)

what's the use case for 24mm again? being a GWAC wedding photographer and having to get an arbitrary number of people in the frame without telling them to relocate first?

>>4443282
>being a GWAC wedding photographer and having to get an arbitrary number of people in the frame without telling them to relocate first?
true, main reason i go wider than 28mm anymore, that + cramped spaces like elevator

tried 21 for a while, but nah
28-50 covers 95% of what i like

>>4443270
>fixed f/4.5 chink toy lens
No

her'es my regular travel kit from last year.
35 on 35mm film, 28 equiv on apsc digital. ez
depending on the trip, nowadays i might take a 645 camera or gfx

I wish there was some perfect sort of small lens with good enough sharpness. I just got back from vacation to Italy and only brought a 10 year old kitlens with me thinking it'd be a one-and-done type of thing. However looking at the photos many have shitty low details.
I'm sure with all these primes nowadays that are completely sharp full open and even some high-end zooms that are nearly perfect we should be seeing much better kitlenses than what we are getting.

>>4444277
>>4444277
>I wish there was some perfect sort of small lens with good enough sharpness.
Literally RF/Z/L mount. Take your pick.

>>4444277
>smallest overall
Sony 28-60 f4-5.6
Sony 40mm f2.5
Sony 24mm f2.8
Sony/zeiss 35mm f2.8
Viltrox 50mm f2
Sigma 90mm f2.8
>bigger overall
Nikon 24-50 f4-6.3
Nikon 40mm f2
Nikon 28mm f2.8
Nikon 24-70 f4

That's all that's worth using and goes on relatively compact bodies. Maybe if lumix released an FF compact with the full compliment of normal camera features, like a shutter, a hot shoe, and better autofocus than a pentax K1, instead of being afraid of burying their m43 offerings, this list could expand.

>>4444277
>perfect sort of small lens with good enough sharpness
Ricoh GR my man. It doesn't truly replace a full system camera on its own but it can honestly beat carrying one with a prime for daily use or whenever size is critical.

>>4442046 (OP)
I love my tiny little 50mm Summicron. Sharpest thing I ever bought including my kitchen knives. Tiny.

>>4444862
>nikon: half a lens, marketing lie. doubles in length when fully assembled.
>canon: almost 10mm of focus breathing, 3 stop vignetting, loud focus motor.
>panasonic: fixed f8 aperture, manual focus only
>sony: a real lens, but you could have chosen the zeiss 35mm f2.8 or samyang 35mm f2.8 because they’re smaller and dont waste space on the unergonomic aperture ring meme
wow, so sony makes the only small lenses that are actually good. ok. great.

its not like any of these would fit in a pocket.

>>4444981
Nice pasta mirrorlesscuckold >>4444270

>>4444995
The brand war can only be pasta at this point. Everyone is stuck on repeat
>trottifakewhitebalance.jpeg

>>4444995
>mirrorlesscuckold
you're off your meds again

>>4445001
>t. mirrorlesscuckold

>>4444981
Holy ESL cope

>>4442046 (OP)
I'm in the single fast fixed camp. When I used to travel with a 18-150 or whatever it was I found that 95% of my shots were taken around 35-50 anyway.

>>4444981
yeah basically lol
>nikon: we made the smallest dogshit lens! *BZZT BZZT* corners never sharp not even at f16 that's called soul baby
>sony: we made the smallest good lens!

>>4445011
Based

>>4445202
>>sony: we made the smallest good lens!
good morning saaaaar!

>>4445264
He was talking about the zeiss 35mm retard. 24mm is a phone focal length. real photographers dont use it. Even canon fucked theirs up because 24mm is useless.
https://youtube.com/watch/zquDj4reUfs

>>4445271
What focal lengths do real photographers use?

>>4445272
80mm and 150mm

>>4445272
40mm and 90mm

>>4445274
>>4445277
Excellent choices all around

>>4445271
>obsessing over canon and nikon rent free when nobody asked
Why are Sony shooters so insecure?

>>4445271
The 24mm TS-E II is one of the godliest lenses ever made and you're a faggot.

>>4445315
Unrelated to the point you’re making, but the ts17mm is even better, probably one of the best EF lenses canon ever made. Wish I could own one.

>>4445319
Yeah I agree, was similarly god tier but was a tiny bit too wide for what I used to use the 24 for. The Nikon PC-E line are no slouch either.

>>4442046 (OP)
my god i want to creampie that wog whore.

>>4445271
Bullshit, 24 is kino.
>wide end of the classic 24-70 / 24-105 standard pro zoom
>28 is often too long for things you think 'let me get the wide angle for this' when you shoot with e.g a 50 as your main
>21 goes very far into the wide look which may not be great for some
24mm is great. Is 85mm a phone focal length now that smartphones have telephoto too?

I just got a new camera. I didn't buy it for travelling but I plan to take it with me when I go on holiday next month. it's an a7 iii and I was going to get a 24-105mm f/4 lens this week but if I buy it second hand I can get a 70-200mm lens for the same price. I'm not too fussed about size but the 70-200mm one looks a bit bulky for travel, would either be okay?

>>4446503
70-200 f/4 or f/2.8? The f/4's not too bad.
IMO they are bulky and don't have a ton of reach. I don't like 70-200s for this reason, I either want more speed and a medium tele for portraits OR more reach, but some people swear by it as a complement to 24-70.
It depends on what you want to shoot of course. If you don't know the answer to that just stick with what you got. In general if you're wondering if you want a lens, the answer's probably no.

>>4446512
Well while I'm away probably your standard fair of street and landscape? Stuff. I'll be using the camera for wildlife and product photography, but for wildlife i feel like a 200-600mm would be better.

>>4446522
>I'll be using the camera for wildlife and product photography, but for wildlife i feel like a 200-600mm would be better.
When I get back I mean.

>>4446522
I'd pass then and just keep the money for other lenses. For walking around when you want your camera to be small and light get a fast prime like a 35mm or 50mm f/1.8. It'll help out indoors or if you want some subject separation.

>>4446527
>just keep the money for other lenses
Yeah, I'll just get the f/1.8 50mm then and get a nicer lens when I get back.

>>4442046 (OP)
Fixed bc jfc, just learn your focal lengths and how to use them. Zooms are worse optically but allow you to be a lazy fuck and not walk to the images ideal vantage point, They are for sony influencer girls. Figure your shit out first, then do that. It's not that fucking hard, what are you some kina communist? for chrissakes get it together.

>>4442342
I had some Nik 24-50 compact zoom. on me Z6 at one point. I found it cumbersome to have to operate a zoom besides the focus & ape in every fucking shot, so I sold it. Sometime later, I rode a wild stallion. I cleaned myself off, straightened my hair, and sure enough, looking back on those pics in lightroom, they actually look quite good. The lens had a little extra motor in it which would automagically extend the barrel out for you when the camera powered on, ready to shoot. I assumed all Niks much more spendy lenses would also do this. They do not, and I grew so annoyed with Twist to Use, I sold my super awesome 14-24 wide MF zoom within weeks of buying it, and frankly, the fucking images out of that like $300 cheapo zoom lens are fine as fuck. Prob should have just kept that little shit.

>>4446557
Herez an assample from that little turdburgler:

>>4446557
>>4446558
Looks good, and way more practical than the retarded 28-60 range.

>>4446557
Why did you feel the need to chimp every shot with a mirrorless camera? If it's focus related you can always just enable peaking even in AF.

>>4442046 (OP)

Samyang 45 1.8 + Sony a7 body (1st gen smallest).

>>4442046 (OP)
My 43mm prime. Sharp, pancake, light, most usable focal length

>>4442046 (OP)

This thread is retarded.

Only hovering UFO can save it.

>>4442354
Ever heard of the full-frame Canon ef 40 f/2.8 STM lens?

Usually I take just m6 mk II with 22mm.

>>444235
>18mm to 40mm
>wide angle to wide angle
Everybody point and laugh at this retard

>>4442352
>18mm to 40mm
>wide angle to wide angle
Everybody point and laugh at this retard

>>4442228
>no camera with a sensor 1" or larger fits in a pants pocket
Are you sure about that?

>>4450408
43mm is a perfect normal on a 24x36mm imager; so 40mm is a "wide angle" for the format.

>>4442228
>homosexuals who want things to be small
That doesn't sound like a poofter mindset.

>>4442233
They keep doing it (XC10/15) so the idea must be somewhat profitable.

>>4442357
The collapsed/extended state should be the power switch.

>>4442397
It means they don't like a linty sensor.

>>4443185
Canon's been neglecting the 40-50mm prime market for years.
It's why I had to buy a rehoused lens just to get what I wanted on EF.

>>4442046 (OP)
I just found out this broad turned 32, she easily looks late 40s

>>4450554
Cope. She looks young for her age and she's more knowledgeable about cameras than you. You're just still malding because she exposed new Snoy cameras for still having terrible color science.

>>4450775
You mean she pulled a gerald and fucked with the white balance at panasonic's request and it fell flat when no one else had the same problem

>>4450784
meds

>>4450808
>only one person had the problem and only when comparing it to a freebie s9
>NO ITS NOT FAKED SONY IS BAD PLEASE BELIEVE SONY IS BAD
sony is bad but for other reasons

>>4450819
No, Sony is bad because of horrible color science AND also because of other reasons.

(The reality is lumix has the worst color science)

35 Ligma ART, was my go to on my Ireland trip.

>>4450419
Is everyone on /p/ retarded?

>>4450408
>16-35
>wide angle to wide angle!
>18-40 (panasonic)
>ITS NOT WIDE ANGLE

>>4450903
Yes. And schizophrenic.

>>4442228
>buys a fool frame
>just to shoot at f4.5
LMAOOOO
At that point just get a MFT camera with the 20mm f1.7

>>4445272
18, 35, 50 and 85. Rare that anyone uses a 20 something focal length, they tend to be on starter kit lenses, so it's a giveaway of being a kit lens users (which is based in its own way).

>>4442046 (OP)
I use the Fujifilm 27mm f2.8. It's so light and small and versatile. If I need wider I'll use my phone.
When the sun goes down I switch to a 35mm 1.4.
I've tried taking a smallish zoom but it's just too annoying to carry after several days of walking.

>>4442046 (OP)
Fuji X-T50
Fujinon 16 mm f2.8

simple, light, wide focal length, and great quality images.

pic related

>>4442046 (OP)
the real redpill is using very compact M mount glass on a body with a thin sensor stack (ergo Z or SL)
>noooo you need autofocus
git gud, skill issue etc.
>noooooo you'll get vignetting
it's called character, even heard of it chudcel?

>>4442046 (OP)
I dont know why but positioning the trigger on top of the camera body always comes across as cheap manufacturing to me.
Its not as comfortable as a forward tilted trigger.

>>4455567
*does the same thing but better for less money*

>>4455579
Oh look, clive trying to force another meme

We hate sony here. We also hate these shitty consoomer pancakes. You are not a friend of /p/. You have to hate snoy, and also hate the shitty consoomer pancakes.
>Why yes, I do want to overpay and waste $500 to put a smaller lens with worse autofocus and more vignetting on my full frame blob
>meanwhile, nikon: sure, you can have both of these for $200 if you know how to win at ebay

>>4455579
I lol'd
>>4455587
meds

>>4455590
samefag

>>4455587
based. fuck consoomerist pancake lenses.

>>4455567
why not just put the small m mount lens on idk, a small m body??

>>4455593
because consoomers think the lens being leica will make their photos better

>>4455587
>>4455592
gm saar!

Pancakes are indian lenses

Only a malnourished pajeet would care about a quarter inch of protrusion and .5oz

>>4443153
>>4443160
I find that the superior image stabilization compensates for the speed of the lens, and I'm discovering the true depth of Olympus's philosophy and engineering. It can't shoot stop motion in dark places without a really fast lens, but it's so lightweight and compact you can easily take it along. Personally, I prefer capturing cool-looking streaming photos instead.
>>4450418
Isnt the GR3 apsc and fits in the pocket?

>>4455626
Why wont the images upload for me? reeeee

>>4455617
>noooo you cant have small lenses you have to have big bulky heavy expensive lenses because... you just have to okay!!

>>4455675
How indian are you if you think paying twice as much is worth making a lens less than a half inc shorter - for a large full frame camera? I can not imagine being weak enough to notice. Then again I’m not a snoy faggot.

>>4455587
Based. Fuck pancake consumerists.
>NO! This lens is still too big! I need an even smaller one and then i will finally take my camera out of the house!
Sometimes gear really does show what kinda guy you are.
Z 26 = spec comparing gearfaggot autist consoomer
Z 28 = photographer

Pentax Q
smallest interchangeable lens system ever made

>>4455587
>>4455592
>>4455617
>>4455676
>>4455677
Jeet shills are in full force today!

>>4455691
>be you
>jeet
>having a 24/7 meltdown over pancake lenses
>it is pointed out by 200 iq white chads that paying twice as much money to make an already small lens negligibly smaller is either consumerist idiocy or for people who are so frail and malnourished that 1.2oz is perceptible without the aid of a scale
>"no ur the jeet! saars you must consoom the newest tech! newer thinner iphoon! newer thinner camerar lense!"
Pancake lenses for large sensor mirrorless cameras are consumerist toys. Fashion accessories.

If you actually cared about having a small camera instead of mindlessly buying whatever ars technica is reporting on at the moment, you would have already had a ricoh GR.

>>4455698
he's a paid brand shill and this is apparently what panasonic thinks will get people away from sony

open statement to panasonic:
it doesn't matter. lumix cameras are unreliable garbage. sony is also garbage. no one was ever buying either.

>>4455698
>>4455700
samefag again lol

>>4455709
Sorry shillbot no one here is spending 2x as much for a 1.2 oz difference. Try advertising on reddit instead.

>>4455710
what? The Sony lens is literally more than double the price

>>4455613
what does what you typed have to do with my post?

>>4442046 (OP)
I quite like the FE 28-60, I grabbed it with my AC7II because it was cheap thanks to the JPY being so low. The intended use was a throwaway lens I could treat like shit while skiing, but it ended up being more often than not on the camera while hiking or traveling.

>>4455713
Why are you talking about sony? Why are you obsessed with the fe 24mm f2.8 g, which is a stupid meme videography lens? This is a photography board, not a selfie board.

The nikon 28mm f2.8 is cheaper (<$150 used) and better than the 26mm pancake (a $500 lense) and the 40mm f2 is better than both because 26/28mm is for phones
The canon 28mm f2.8 is a buzzy, 3 stop vignetting lens that's $300 when the glorious 50mm f1.8 is barely any bigger, faster, and not a phone focal length
Sony isn't very good but the zeiss and samyang 35mm f2.8s are very small and easy to find for less than $300 (the samyang is just $100)

There I solved your camera dilemma and possibly hundreds of dollars.

>>4455960
because he's a snoy shooter and the 24mm f2.8 g is the one with "sharp mtf charts" and "tech features", and as a snoy, he's gotta have those things. good rendering, character, 3d pop from lenses like the zeiss are anathema to snoyboys which is why snoy broke it off with zeiss and started making soulless pixel peeper lenses with flat rendering and dead colors

>>4455960
>>4455963
>schizo having another meltdown nobody wants to buy his snoy and his big lenses

>>4456093
That has no relation to what they said at all. Its just a fact that pancake lenses are also consumerist toys just like sony gay master lenses. Your forced meme fails harder than the one pretending color science is a sony v panasonic issue (both have horrid colors).

>>4456096
>referring to your posts as they

>>4456100
Meds schizo. Maybe /p/ isnt for you. Try browsing ebay and watching photo gear youtubers.

>>4455698
>Pancake lenses for large sensor mirrorless cameras are consumerist toys. Fashion accessories.
Absolutely true. Stupid compromises they are.
>my setup gathers no light but I have a large sensor so my photos are actually better than what you get with your faster APS-C setup!
>no, I won't do an A/B test!

>>4456115
For once cANON is actually right. 3 stop vignette at f2.8 ~= f4 with normal vignette. They may as well be for APS-C cameras. The Z 26 and RF 28 technically don’t cover full frame.

Neither do a lot of later bazooka sized RF L primes. Global snoying.

>>4456120
The sorrow of mirrorless. Of all the "less" things the only one I know to be a real improvement is tubeless. Even wireless sucks at times compared to wired (but it does have its convenience advantages).

>>4456127
It's not inherent to mirrorless, it's inherent to these shallow lens mounts that put designing good zooms first and designing small primes dead last.

Leica has made mirrorless cameras with a deep enough mount to make good pancakes for 100 years. Sadly they can't make the rest of the camera that good.

>>4456135
Problem is, the zooms aren't that good either. And well, Leicas were film cameras, the digital ones have curved microlenses or large throated mounts to compensate for the shallowness.

>>4456139
>The zooms aren't that good
The zooms are godly. Nikon released not one, but three kit zooms all of which are better than every F mount prime before them and the vast majority of EF mount primes that weren't overdesigned pro kit. The zooms are actually too sharp for some people leading them to adapt F mount primes for portraiture.

However there is a hard limit on how short a prime can be without being shit due to the sensor being too far forward in the body. Any shorter than the 40mm f2 Z mount lens and they drop off and become worse than a 6 element SLR "pancake". On sony, this limit is even further out and even then they need digital corrections to reign in their bad decisions.

>>4456141
Sharpness isn't everything. They might be good at being optical instruments I guess.

>>4456135
What a retarded take. Just because a mount is shallow doesn't mean they have to have the rear element that close to the sensor. They could have the exact same lens designs as those Leica ones, or just adapt those actual lenses. The issue is simply trying to make a lens as short as possible, which is dumb and pointless when the grip sticks out further and it's still not sliding in a pocket.

>>4456144
They also have good rendering.

Save the sharpness isn't everything comments for sony.

>>4455956
I just use the 16-50 pancake kit lens when traveling. It serves its purpose very well.

>>4442046 (OP)
I'd prefer my entry level compact but I need to get dust and pubes out of it some year. So I bring my ancient tough p&s instead. It's shitty but truly pocketable being water, dust, lint and smegmaproof.

>>4444277
986545