Thread 510689737

>70 AD: Romans destroy Second Temple in Jerusalem.
>Jews lose central place of worship, identity shattered.
>Gospels written after this, not during Jesus’ supposed life.
>No contemporary evidence Jesus existed.
>Paul describes a celestial figure, not a recent man.
>Gospels include “prophecies” that mirror past events.
>Bible becomes new temple, portable, indestructible sacred space.
>Jesus given Roman imperial titles: "Son of God", "Lord", "Savior".
>Creates rival to Caesar, undermines Roman authority.
>Christianity spreads, weakens Roman values.
>Roman Empire collapses, Europe enters Dark Ages.
>Weaponized scripture becomes long-term civilization destroying tool.
>Glorifies weakness, guilt, and submission.
>Third Temple was never a building — it was the Bible.

>>510689737 (OP)
>Gospels written after this,
Proof?

>>510689737 (OP)
>>Paul describes a celestial figure, not a recent man.

Since you didn't bother to read Paul's letters, why should anyone take your stupid opinion seriously?

>>510690235
All four Gospels were written decades after 70 AD.
Mark = ~70–75
Matthew/Luke = ~80–90
John = ~90–110
None are eyewitness accounts.
None mention the Temple still standing.
All treat its destruction like a known fact.
That’s your “proof.”

>>510690275
Paul never quotes Jesus.
Never mentions his miracles, parables, trial, or crucifixion under Pilate.
Calls him a “mystery,” “revealed through scripture,” and only “seen” in visions.
Says he got the gospel from no man.
That’s not history, that’s theology.
You’re the one who didn’t read.

>>510689737 (OP)
kys or read the book you retarded commie shitskin.

>>510690418
Anon you've just repeated the claim. I asked for proof of the claim that the gospels were written at these times

>>510690509
Not a claim. Scholarly consensus.
Even conservative scholars date Mark after 70 AD — because it describes the Temple’s destruction as prophecy.
That’s the tell.
Matthew and Luke copy Mark, and add edits — meaning they came later.
John is clearly the latest: different style, theology, no exorcisms, elevated Christology.
No Gospel claims authorship.
No Gospel was written in Aramaic.
No Gospel is first-person.
They’re anonymous texts written in Greek decades after the fact.

>>510690454
>Paul never quotes Jesus.
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.” (1 Corinthians 11:23-25)

>>510690979
Thanks for quoting that — you just made my point.
Paul says he “received it from the Lord” — not from disciples, not from witnesses, not from history.
That’s a revelation, not a memory.
No date. No place. No people present.
No context at all except a ritual formula.
That’s mythic cult language, not historical narrative.
Paul never met Jesus.
Everything he knows comes from visions and scriptures.
He's preaching a cosmic Christ, not a crucified rabbi.

>>510690644
Anon these are all huge assumptions, not facts


I asked for proof

>Mark after 70 AD — because it describes the Temple’s destruction as prophecy.

Anon that makes literally no sense at all. Prophesies happen before the thing happens. Your logic is completely faulty and the conclusion does not follow the evidence

>copy [...] and add edits

What evidence is there they are "copied with edits" and not just differing perspectives with obvious overlap given they are discussing the same thing exactly?

> John is clearly the latest: different style, theology, no exorcisms, elevated Christology.

And what evidence do you have to back up that idea that these differences are not produced by differing perspectives and personal intentions/ priorities of the author?

>>510691202
You're mistaking scholarly methodology for “assumptions.”
Dating isn’t done on emotions — it’s done by analyzing internal clues, language, theology, and context.

Mark after 70 AD:
Because the “prophecy” in Mark 13 perfectly describes the destruction of the Temple — down to “not one stone left.”
Not vague. Specific.
No reason to invent that scene before the event unless you knew it already happened.
This isn’t rare — it’s called vaticinium ex eventu (prophecy after the fact). Common in ancient texts.

Synoptic copying:
Matthew and Luke follow Mark’s structure almost scene for scene.
They quote him verbatim in Greek.
Sometimes they clean up Mark’s grammar or contradictions.
This isn’t “overlap,” it’s literary dependence.
You can track the redactions. It’s textbook source criticism.

John is last:
Because it’s the only Gospel with a divine, pre-existent Jesus.
No exorcisms, no parables, no Last Supper — just theology.
Jesus is the Logos.
That didn’t appear in Mark, Matthew, or Luke.
This is called development.

You’re pretending these texts were written in a vacuum by four dudes with different vibes.
That’s not how it works.
They were written in response to history, trauma, and the needs of evolving communities.
Read a book.

>>510689737 (OP)
Both the church in antioch and the church of alexandria as well as the book of Mark existed at the fall of the second temple. Paul is the antichrist and the roman 'church' is apostates, so from the perspective of a chalcedonian catholic I can see where you get your misunderstanding.

>>510691133
>He's preaching a cosmic Christ, not a crucified rabbi.

“But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.” (Matthew 23:8)

“Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?” (John 1:38)

“For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Poo the most certain historical fact is jesus’s existence. Ask any historian.
Keep screaming. & stinking, & hiding your flag

>>510691473
Thanks for confirming Mark was written around 70 AD — not during Jesus' life.
That’s exactly the point.
He writes after the destruction and puts a “prophecy” about it in Jesus’ mouth.
That’s not prediction — it’s post-trauma mythmaking.
And the churches in Antioch and Alexandria?
They were Gentile-majority by then, already interpreting Jesus symbolically.
No eyewitnesses, no firsthand history — just theology filling a void.
Also, calling Paul “antichrist” doesn't help your case.
It just proves the early tradition was fractured and contradictory.
Christianity wasn't revealed — it was concocted.

>>510691491
You’re quoting Matthew and John to defend Paul.
That’s not how this works.
The question isn’t whether later Gospels called Jesus “Rabbi.”
It’s whether Paul, writing decades earlier, ever presents a historical rabbi teaching in Galilee.
He doesn’t.

“Jesus Christ, and him crucified” is a theological slogan, not a biography.
Paul gives no details — no trial, no Pilate, no place, no date, no characters involved.
Never mentions Jesus teaching, healing, or preaching.
Never cites a parable.
He calls him the “second Adam” — a cosmic archetype, not a man from Nazareth.

You keep quoting the Gospels.
That’s the myth-building phase.
I’m talking about Paul, who never met Jesus and never grounds him in history.
There’s a reason for that.

>>510691471
>Because the “prophecy” in Mark 13 perfectly describes the destruction of the Temple — down to “not one stone left.”
>Not vague. Specific.
>No reason to invent that scene before the event unless you knew it already happened.
Like many modern jewish histories, this is a case of self-fulfilling prophecy. Every stone of the 2nd temple was removed for the same reason no more or less than 6 million jews died in the holocaust, because it had been prophesied and apocalyptic jewish subcults such as the sicarii zealots influenced events to occur in order to intentionally fulfill the specifics of the prophecy in the belief that it would lead to a new age. I would not be surprised if the same jews that opened the gates at the second temple and let the romans in, were also the ones to make sure that not a single stone remained.

>>510691562
reminder that the bible is the primary source used for the existence of the roman emperor tiberius, alongside a single bronze bust of a man that we found in a town near pompeii that was probably tiberius maybe.

>>510691471
Right but what evedice do you have that its prophecy after the fact and not just prophecy?

>This isn’t “overlap,” it’s literary dependence.

Once again, you havnt actually proved that though, youce just said "these structures are silimar and use the same quotes " and made the assumption that it's because they are copied. The fact that they have similar structures and the same quotes is not actually hard proof of the assumption you are making though.

For the fifth time I asked for proof , not "these things are really similar so some people assume x explanation for why they are similar"

>Because it’s the only Gospel with a divine, pre-existent Jesus.

Right, and what proof do you have that this discrepancy isnt because John was very hyper focused on communicating christs divinity?

Literally everything you are describing can be easily explained by the texts having different authorship. Different people have different perspectives. Different intentions . Different priorities. These differences can completely colour their interpretation of events as well as how they chose to communicate these events

>>510691665
>no Pilate.
“I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;” (1 Timothy 6:13)

>>510689737 (OP)
>Gospels written after this

>>510690418
>All treat its destruction like a known fact

>>510690235
Matthew 24 was written after the temples destruction and inserted afterwards to appear that that was the 2nd coming of christ

>>510689737 (OP)
@Grok is this true?

>>510692380
If you want to assume that it's your prerogative, but I'm going to assume what you've said is not true

>>510692380
Fake news.

>>510692178
You're not actually asking for proof.
You're demanding absolute certainty in a field that works by probability and evidence-weighting.
This is how historical analysis works.
We don’t get video footage from the 1st century.
We get textual patterns, dating techniques, linguistic shifts, intertextual borrowing, and theological development.
And when every line of evidence points in one direction, the burden is no longer on me to convince you — it’s on you to explain why the consensus is wrong.

Mark’s “prophecy”:
So accurate it describes the destruction as it happened — not vaguely, but structurally (“not one stone will be left”).
And no Gospel says “it’s coming soon.”
They speak as if it already happened.
That’s not how real prophecy talks.

Synoptic copying:
Matthew and Luke quote entire verses of Mark — word-for-word, in Greek.
They preserve his errors, sometimes fix his awkward grammar, and rearrange events.
This isn’t “different people remembering the same thing.”
This is literary dependence.
This is how we detect source use in every ancient text.
Your refusal to accept that isn’t skepticism — it’s denial.

John’s theology:
Pre-existent divine logos.
No baptism, no exorcisms, no parables, no Olivet Discourse, no Eucharist — all gone.
Jesus speaks in abstract monologues, not punchy sayings.
This is a fundamentally different portrait, not just “different focus.”
This is late-stage theological development.

If your standard of “proof” makes all historical analysis void, then you’re not debating — you’re retreating.
You don’t want answers.
You want immunity from them.

>>510692180
1 Timothy is widely considered a later pastoral epistle, not written by Paul himself.
It’s dated decades after Paul’s death.
Not reliable as historical evidence for Jesus’ trial.
Also, “witnessed a good confession” is vague and theological, not a historical account of Pilate judging Jesus.
Paul’s undisputed letters never mention Pilate or the trial.
The silence speaks louder than this late, symbolic mention.

>>510689737 (OP)
There's more historical evidence for jesus than there is for Mohammed, youre a faggot

>>510691471
Also
>how could a book written by a former saducee jew who left the mainline faith for a messiahnic apocalypse cult that believes that the true holy land is in life after death, and who later abandoned judea for alexandria after jews had their third uprising against rome in three consecutive generations, possibly predict that the jews were going to rise up against rome again in about one generation and get crushed and have their temple destroyed
>its such a random thing for Mark to predict

>>510689737 (OP)
>>Weaponized scripture becomes long-term civilization destroying tool.
this had to be one of the worst times in human history, so much destruction over blatant lies in His name

>>510692604
And you're widely considered to be a stupid lying animal who hates God and is on his way to hell. Stop lying, read the book and get saved while there's still chance.

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:9-10)

“¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

>>510691990
??
The lives of the Caesars exists dude

>>510692566
U write like a faggy ai, you're a faggy ai

>>510691665
Paul is a learned Jewish man, who was sent to teach in synagogues and to the gentiles. Being 2nd 12th apostole, obviously he worked after Jesus' death. Paul's style is different: He explains how Jesus' life on earth was essential to the earlier Jewish prophecies, just as Matthew does. He explains the Jewish law to the layman who has never been to synagogues.

Considering that all the apostoles were in touch, wouldn't it make sense that their accounts would be fairly similar. John was favoured and he clearly had a different task. Jewish tradition requires witness of two or three, therefore three similar gospels were required.

>>510692939
post-mortem biographies of the most critical roman kings written a century after their deaths. you might as well claim that a contemporary biography of churchill is a primary source.

everything should be questioned
you know "who" corrupted everything on this planet
we are short term life , there are long term institutions that control the narrative at all times
the bible could have been writen and rewriten 40 times and we won t be able to know shit
everything is corrupted trust nobody and trust nothing
and most of all ignore the memeflags and the leafs once and for all .

Read Daniel 9:24

https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/9.htm

It predicts both Messiah and AD70 Temple destruction:

First it speaks of the “anointed one” (Hebrew mashiach) being “cut off” (v26)—a clear reference to the coming Messiah’s death.

Then it names the Romans “people of the prince” who will “destroy the city and the sanctuary” (v26) and bring “abominations of desolations” on the Temple (v27).

The 70‑week clock begins with a known decree (457BC).

483 years later (62×7 years) brings us to AD27, matching Jesus’ public ministry (“Christ the prince”).

The final “week” includes both the Messiah’s end (mid‑week) and the Temple’s destruction (end of the week, AD70).

V27’s “sacrifice and drink‑offering shall be taken away” exactly describes how Rome’s siege (AD66–70) halted Temple worship and offerings.

Abomination language fits Vespasian/Titus

Roman standards and pagan rites were set up on the Temple’s courts as an “abomination” (Josephus records pagan banners, shields, and idols on the precincts during the siege).

One prophecy—two fulfillments

Although the Book of Daniel is traditionally placed in the 6thcenturyBC, modern scholars place it in the 2nd century BC, 2 centuries before the Temple destruction!

Daniel 9 corroborates the Gospels written before 70AD. it weaves the Messiah’s cutting off and the Temple’s ruin into a single, continuous vision—proof it wasn’t back‑dated by Christian authors.

>>510690509
Show us any manuscript from that time

>>510692566
>a field that works by probability

Well yea, that's what I've already pointed out. you are making assumptions based on that you measure as more probable, which means your entire argument is just a theory. A glorified opinion. A leap of faith. The problem is that you are presenting it as hard fact, which is no different than me presenting my assumptions as hard facts, the difference being that I acknowledge that I have made a leap of faith, while you have your head up your own ass and bring yourself to make such an acknowledgement

>the burden is no longer on me to convince you

Except you're the one who made this thread and is actively trying to convince people that your theory is the correct one. The burden is inherently yours since you took on the goal of convincing people of something.

>That’s not how real prophecy talks.

Lol What a load of crap. Explain in detail why anyone should believe that God has to follow your specific rules on what defines"real prophecy"?


>This isn’t “different people remembering the same thing.”
This is literary dependence.

And once again, what evidence do you have to back this up? Why should I believe your specific explanation and not say, the possibility that they might have had a conversation on the topic and decided to write the same thing? Or hell, maybe the explanation IS literal direct copying, one author reading his fellow apostles work and agreeing with how it is presented and just consciously or subconsciously deciding to copy that specific bit.

>, not just “different focus.”

Well I disagree with this assumption


>” makes all historical analysis void,

You are the one who is actually debasing historical analysis here. What you are doing is taking hypothetical explanations based on probabilities and presenting them as facts rather than what they are - purely theoretical explanations based on what little unconclusive evidence we have

The key word being "unconclusive"

>>510690644
>(((Scholarly))) consensus
Every single meme flag. Every single time.

>>510692604
>widely considered
Completely meaningless. Notice how everything you post hinges on a father based judgement call and nothing you state is actually provable

>>510694104
Not an argument. Scholars arrive at conclusions when there's lack of physical evidence to suggest otherwise

>>510694238
Similarly you can't prove the opposite. Do you even know who the actual authors of the synoptics are, not who they're attributed to?

>>510690235
>>Gospels written after this,
>Proof?
They are full of anachronisms, so they cannot possibly have been written in the 1st century.

>>510690418
>Matthew/Luke = ~80–90
Yeah mate you need to add at least 30 years, probably 50 years, to that

>>510689737 (OP)
>No contemporary evidence Jesus existed
Stopped reading there, there is plenty of evidence from secular sources that the crucifixion (and the resurrection) of Jesus did happen.

>>510694335
No there isn't. Present it

>>510694104
this
memeflags , always , everytime , corrupted and spreading half truths and lies

>>510694282
I absolutely agree. I am making a pure leap of faith. I'm not misconstruing my stance as anything but that

>>510691202
>Prophesies happen before the thing happens.
Except when people make them up. See the book of Daniel for someone caught in the act writing about "prophecies" of things that had already happened

>What evidence is there they are "copied with edits" and not just differing perspectives
Because in many places the Gospels are word-for-word identical with each other, apart from the odd "correction"

>And what evidence do you have to back up that idea that these differences are not produced by differing perspectives
You already asked that question anon, and I already answered it

>>510689737 (OP)
>>510690418
Yeah no shit retard, pretty much all of the gospels were passed down word of mouth by people specifically chosen to pass down this knowledge. THEN someone wrote down the story. You think Mary could read and write? You think the apostles when they first followed Christ they all knew reading and writing? Get real fag, they learned it later, and you're a kike using a memeflag.

>>510691473
>Both the church in antioch and the church of alexandria as well as the book of Mark existed at the fall of the second temple
There is literally zero evidence to support this claim.

>>510694420
A leap of faith on what basis? On a text written by unknown authors riddled with contradictions?

>>510691562
>Poo the most certain historical fact is jesus’s existence. Ask any historian.
Nonsense, you haven't read a single history book in your entire life have you, mate

>>510692604
>1 Timothy is widely considered a later pastoral epistle, not written by Paul himself.
Spoiler alert: none of Paul's letters were written by Paul himself. Most of them were written by several different people.

>>510690275
doesn't even stick around to get schooled. typical stupid christkike

>>510692866
>But muh 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
Describes a vision, not a historical event

>Romans 10:9-10
Irrelevant

>John 3:16
Would be relevant to the discussion of Jesus' historicity if it had been written earlier than the 160s

>Ephesians 2:8-9
Irrelevant

>>510689737 (OP)
Every single scholar agrees that the same author wrote Luke and Acts, and Acts finishes before the death of Paul in 65AD. They also agree that Luke was written after Mark and Matthew. That puts those 3 gospels before 70AD.
Your idiotic idea that they prophecy the destruction of the temple therefore they have to be written afterwards is like finding a diary that has dates from 1935, but since it says "I fear there will be another war with Germany" retards like you say "it must've been written after WW2"

>>510694466
>Yeah no shit retard, pretty much all of the gospels were passed down word of mouth
Nonsense, Mark is a rewrite of earlier Jewish scripture with a few Hellenistic novels thrown in here and there, it contains literally zero "word of mouth" accounts

>>510689737 (OP)
Make yourself useful and Kill yourself, kike

>>510692566
nta but thanks for actually engaging and remaining calm, providing reasonable answers that make for an intellectual discussion. I rarely see this on this site and it's like a breath of fresh air in this shithole. I gained some knowledge and enjoy this topic so thanks for not getting derailed and shut down by retards

>>510694718
>pretty much all of the gospels
That is what pretty much all means. It means that it's most of them are passed down, not all. But that is true about Mark.

>>510694757
fucking memeflag kys

>>510694716
The synoptic authors constantly try to insert into the OT but completely fail because they can't read the Hebrew. It's pretty obvious that they're doing it on the fly and there's quite literally no evidence that it was written before 70 ad. In fact given how eloquently and well written it is in koine Greek, it's likely it was written well past that

There is no evidence of jesus existing. None of the hundreds of contemporary, documented writers in the area mentioned him. There are no fragments of any gospel that could be before 140-100CE. There are no mentions of any of the gospel narratives until the second century. There is no evidence of Paul's letters before Marcion presented them. Marcion wrote the first gospel. There is zero historical evidence of Paul. Of all the places he supposedly visited, all of the thousands and thousands he supposedly converted and the governors and kings he interacted with there is ZERO historical evidence of the guy. It is fiction. Theology. Bullshit.
As is the old testament and Islam.

>>510691990
>1st century historians suetonius, tacitus, josephus never mention tiberius
you just won biggest dumbfuck of the thread award

>>510694923
Your flag is the real joke

>>510689737 (OP)
>still pandering shit revisionist history about the how Middle Ages were le bad
You're probably not even a bad person, just a victim of a shit education system.

>>510695083
There are very early manuscripts of the Quran. But besides that tho the Quran relies on oral tradition. Children have been memorizing the Quran without any scripture here and in Afghanistan since the time of Muhammad bin Qasim. You can still go to places in KPK and see that happening live.

>>510694716
>and Acts finishes before the death of Paul in 65AD.
That doesn't mean that Acts was written before the death of Paul, you numbskull.

>>510689737 (OP)

Anon,

Daniel 9 predicted the Messiah and the Temple destruction within a few years, and scholars begrudgingly place it in the 2nd century BC.

Even if the Gospels were written "after the fact", Daniel 9 was quoted by Jesus, and Daniel 9 still predicted the Temple destruction.

But I don't believe the Gospels were written after the fact. The Gospels were written as a proof that the Old Testament prophesied the coming of a Messiah. They allude to the Old Testament over 300 times. If the Gospels were written after the Temple destruction, the writers would have gladly used Daniel 9 as evidence for Jesus Christ.

Instead, you have Luke, the author of Luke and Acts, openly staying he's making a chronological report (Luke 1), only to have him finish the report (Acts) with the imprisonment of Paul. No mention of the Temple destruction at all.

Luke wasn't afraid of reporting "bad news". He reported the deaths of Stephen, the death of James, the imprisonment of Peter, the jailing of Paul.

The Acts of the Apostles ending on such a sour note with the imprisonment of Paul in Rome, supports that Acts was written before 70AD, which then supports that Luke was written before 70AD, which supports Mark was written much earlier as well.

>>510695124
all of the names listed are 2nd century historians, anon. all of them also reference christians in rome as of 60AD.

>>510694859
>It means that it's most of them are passed down, not all. But that is true about Mark.
Spoiler alert: the "new" material in Matthew, Luke and John is either derivative of earlier Jewish/Hellenic literature, or was clearly the result of religious syncretism in the mid-2nd century. Possibly the Q material derives from the sayings of actual people (not necessarily Jesus), but until someone can find a copy even that isn't certain.

you guys act like everyone was able to read , 500 years ago regular people couldn t read or write shit , only a few chosen could read and write , there s nothing left of the roman empire , the egyptians and company and you saying that one book lasted 2000 years without being altered or rewriten or even invented ?

>>510694366
Criterion of embarrasment, their god dying crucified? Thats too embarrasing, as crucifixion was reserved for the lowest of the low. (Why would they make that up?) Multiple attestation, (Josephus, Pontius Pilate among many others), the explosive rise of christianity, the apostles willing to die horrible deaths where they could have simply recanted their beliefs to avoid brutal excecutions.

>>510695083
>None of the hundreds of contemporary, documented writers in the area mentioned him.
name one work that notably skipped mention of jesus. remember that jesus was known as a criminal at best in life and that even the most generous christian accounts consider their religion to be persecuted by Nero as a strange death cult following some little known figure, circa 64AD, and it wasnt until well after paul's teachings were written and spread across the empire that the religion gained even a remote level of recognition outside of the specific region of judea where it spawned.

>>510689737 (OP)
>no evidence Jesus existed
plenty of eye witness accounts related to the time period who wrote about it.

>>510695784
>Why would they make that up?
Perhaps they believed it. Hindus believe that Laxmi resides in cow anus, way more embarrassing than getting crucified but here we are.

>Josephus, Pontius Pilate among many others
Present their attestations. Also Josephus doesn't say that Jesus was crucified he only mentions about a group called christians. This shows you haven't even read these so called attestations.

>the apostles willing to die horrible deaths where they could have simply recanted their beliefs to avoid brutal excecutions.
Early Muslims were persecuted, tortured and killed too, is Islam true because of that now?

>>510695706
Historians have access to over 40,000 biblical manuscripts. When compared, there is a consistency of over 99%.

>>510695339
Your god is a fake moon devil and your prophet fucked children.

>>510690235
No proof, just assumptions. The death of James brother of Jesus was recorded by Josephus in 62 AD.
Jewish (and/or Josephus’) Antiquities book 20.9.1

>>510696053
That's formulated by orientalists, the Quran explicitly states not to worship the moon.

Christians also had child marriages not to mention if I go to the old testament which literally says you can rape a girl and purchase her for a sum of money.

I know that there are good and bad among all peoples and the jews are no different. this is common knowledge. but the way the loudest mouths among them preach their history like they're the most sainted/blameless lost puppies is not doing any favors. do they really think the general public is that stupid?

>>510689737 (OP)
>Romans force every conquered group to place a statue of Caesar in their temple and accept those raised to divinity
>the jews will not accept this and screech and revolt
>Titus has enough and decimates them
>Destroys their temple
>Commissions Josephus to write about his conquest
>Titus still needs the jews to worship him to get off
>Has Josephus disguise the story of his conquest as a story of the awaited jewish messiah
>jews start unknowingly converting to a disguised imperial cult
>the meme was so strong it spread quickly through the lower classes and slaves
>Hundreds of years later the descendant of Titus, Charlemagne adopts the imperial cult psyops on the jews religion as the official religion of the empire

>>510696038
so we should believe that all manuscripts writen in history are true ? take all contemporary manuscripts and keep them for 2000 years , it s not even worth the paper to keep a fire up , why should we believe shit that was writen by nobodys from 2000 years ago ? these people were riding donkeys and don t even have runinng water , 99% of them coudn t write or read , and we should believe the 1%er , it s like saying "trust the government bro"

>>510694077
Daniel was created to incite the Maccabean revolt. The abomination of desolation was antiochus IV sacrificing a pig on the jew temple altar and going into the holy of holys room

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel

>>510695706
The era when jesus was supposed to have lived has a lot of contemporary accounts. There is nothing on Jesus. Nothing. You have Josephus who wrote histories just after jesus supposedly lived. The guy lived in Galilee. There is a poorly forged passage in one of his books about jesus. There was a Jewish philosopher- historian- theologian named Philo from Alexandria. He traveled in Judea around 36 CE. He wrote nothing of any christians or recent jesus. And there were many more whose writings exist or are referenced in later works.
Yeah, after the christcucks subverted the empire literacy became rare. Lay people were not allowed to read the bible. When literacy started to increase and the printing press was invented people started to call bullshit on the christian fairy tales.

>>510696592
yea , personnally i lost it at the book of revelation
_ dragon with 24 heads and shit
_ grass hoppers with humans faces
_ horses with snake tails breathing fires
_ 4 assholes on horses or wathever
this is worse than superman / wonderwoman and ironman
shit is fucking stupid

>>510696526
Daniel 9 Seventy Weeks prophecy predicts the Temple destruction and a coming Messiah within the timeframe of Jesus. 1st century. Regardless if the book was written to "incite the Maccabean revolt" it was still written 200 years before Jesus and the Temple destruction.

Daniel 2 also prophecies that a rock not made of human hands would grow into a mountain to fill the Earth. Christianity. Also written hundreds of years before Jesus.

>>510696018
>way more embarrassing than getting crucified but here we are.
Yeah, but the romans loved to crucify everyone who they found annoying. I havent heard of anyone taking residence in a cow's butthole and that proven to be verifiable.
>This shows you haven't even read these so called attestations
Testimonium Flavianum
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared. —Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3, 3
If anything I am more confused why you are so confidently claiming the opposite, when almost every secular scholar agrees on this consensus
>Early Muslims were persecuted, tortured and killed too, is Islam true because of that now?
dunno, but its more weight supporting the claims the apostles were making when you consider the previous points.

>>510696772
It's symbolic and it represents nations. The horns represent kings. You can piece this together by reading and studying fulfilled prophecies.

>>510696464
>so we should believe that all manuscripts writen in history are true

moving the goalpost.

(you):

>you saying that one book lasted 2000 years without being altered or rewriten or even invented

The oldest manuscripts of scripture are nearly identical to contemporary copies, whether the Bible is true or not, it has remained consistent as far as can be proved.

>>510690644
>because it describes the Temple’s destruction as prophecy.

Basically "i dont have proofs i am just aainst his claim".

>>510695078
The authors of the gospels quote the greek Septuagint. The masoretic hebrew scripture was written by committee as early as the 7th century

>>510694095
Jesus, christ cucks really are cultists

>>510696860
>the romans loved to crucify everyone who they found annoying. I havent heard of anyone taking residence in a cow's butthole and that proven to be verifiable.
Bro there are millions of Hindus that still believe it, still doesn't make it true does it?

>when almost every secular scholar agrees on this consensus
Secular scholars only accept that he was crucified. Not a single one accepts he rose.

>but its more weight supporting the claims the apostles were making when you consider the previous points.
Can you show me one actual account by the apostles written by themselves and not attributed to them? Where are these so called accounts? We actually have well documented history of the early Muslims. Still doesn't make Islam nor Christianity true due to these citucmstancial claims.

>>510697083
Even then, the followers of Jesus would be fishermen, goat herders and farmers. Not authors well versed in rhetoric and prose.

>>510696934
symbols are for simple people , i don t need no symbols , this shit was writen for little kids or what ? this is really at the level of batman and the joker story , mein kampf is way better writen

>>510690644
Your claim is even more impressive than one that involves divine intervention that the gospels be recored and preserved through history.

The Holy Spirit will bring to remembrance all that followers of Christ need to know, and to teach, for the glory of God through Jesus Christ. (John 14:25-27)

Whereas your claim is that some randomly written and supposedly untrue texts, written by man and not the Holy Spirit, have changed the world forever, for the better if followed to the word, and continue to do so, for no reason, because God isn't real?

Your claim is even wilder than the Christian one at this point.

>>510696772
Humans who are like Grasshoppers are referenced in the Old Testament - the Israelites were so small they were. like grasshoppers before a certain Canaanite tribe of giants, I believe the Anakites. Who were basically one of the Canaanite tribes attempting to re-breed the nephilim back into existence.

I don't pretend to understand the book of revelation, but certainly we can try to interpret if we give it a sincere effort

Also, the Bible is not like the hunger games or whatever young adult fiction book were used to reading. You're not supposed to read it and fully comprehend and digest everything in one sitting. If this book was transcendent and carried metaphysical truths, surely we would expect it to be confusing at time - wouldn't we? Perhaps even taking decades to comprehend , even incompletely?

>>510695943
>name one work that notably skipped mention of jesus
Philo. Nothing in Roman records.... not of the supposed execution or the supposed huge following which would have concerned them considering past uprisings. Nothing in any jewish accounts. Think the shekel grubbing kikes of the temple would have nit said anything if some stinky hippie would have been leading the masses away from paying the temple tax? Yeah, right.

>>510697281
>Whereas your claim is that some randomly written and supposedly untrue texts, written by man and not the Holy Spirit,
That's not the claim. They were all derivatives of either each other or other sources like Q or M. If the so called holy spirit inspired them why are there so many errors?

>>510689737 (OP)
>Bible becomes new templ
Went full retard
>Council of nicae decides that in order to form unity all churches will declare Jesus as son of God
You have no power over me.

>>510695445
Why not include the death then? It makes no sense.
The neatest explanation seems to be that Luke was a companion of Paul and was working on the manuscript and they died in the same persecution.

>>510697152
What about Mathew?

>>510697311
if this BS was really coming from god , the entire codex will be in our brain at birth , i am too old to believe these type of stories , it s kind of like the big bang , source : "trust me i am neil degrasse tyson nigga ima scientist "
for example galileo was killed because he said "hey maybe the earth is a sphere " at this time the narative was that the earth was flat , so they killed him
they had an old testament and suddenly the shit became obsolete and they released a nex dlc for the bible ? they really think we re stupid af , and i think 99.9 % of us are , including me , maybe in 2000 years they will say , " in the years 2000 a man called superman came and he was able to beat the shot out of lex luthor , and then a girl called miss marvel came and kicked the shit out of hulk ' now we should worship them because they had an incredible force , this is fucking lame

>>510697671
>gigantophitecus

Serious question, dont you feel a bit of shame? your "lack of faith" turned a beautifull country into just another muslim brown shithole.

>>510690235
All the gospels seem to know about The Jewish War by Flavius Josephus, which we know was written in 75. For example, it looks like the Gospel of Mark created the Jesus Passion narrative based on Josephus' account of a guy called Jesus, son of Ananias.

>>510697402
>That's not the claim.
>"My claim, which was made to look weak by your argument, wasn't my claim at all, so therefore I don't need to address my own failing!"

Move the goalposts some more. Jesus is Lord.

>>510696959
>The oldest manuscripts of scripture are nearly identical to contemporary copies, whether the Bible is true or not, it has remained consistent as far as can be proved
SOOO consistent that there are Bibles with footnotes explaining the many different possibilities of the text because they don't know which of the source texts is correct.
My hatred for christcucks continues to grow. They are ignorant of their religion, willfully ignorant of their religion or damned liars. Usually all three.

>>510694466
If this all comes from oral accounts, how come Paul doesn't seem to know about it? He makes no mention of any of the Gospel stories (miracles, teachings, etc) even at points where it would have helped his argument.

>>510689737 (OP)
>>Paul describes a celestial figure, not a recent man.

Post 1/2:


Christianity is a mix of pagan beliefs. "Jesus" is another and last deified personification of planet today known as Jupiter. Read below for explanation and take a look at attached images in both posts.

Christianity was just one big organization, which united other, smaller religious cults that worshiped the same "god", planet Jupiter. Jesus was just one name of many and a personification of planet Jupiter. Jesus is Zeus (Greek) is Jupiter (Roman) is Perun (Slavic) is Thor (Nordic) is Perkunas (Baltic) is Indra (Hindu) is Taranis (Celtic) and many others. It was all different names in different cultures for the same celestial object. Planets had different orbits and specific planet "ruled" the heaven at specific time, sometimes "fighting" between each other. Ever wondered why in the past people believed in planets being "gods" and why all cultures were worshiping at the specific time the same specific planet as "god"? Whenever there are changes of planetary orbits, which happens relatively often, what follows is earthquakes, tsunamis, volcano eruptions and other civilization-threatening disasters. Another example is planet Saturn / Cronus etc., that in the past was Earth's "sun" (Earth was tidally locked with Saturn's north pole, that to this day has a cymatic-driven hexagon-shaped storm, similarly today Earth's Moon is tidally locked to Earth) and ruled the "heavens" and as a result many human-sacrificing cults were created such as Baal, Moloch, El etc. - it was all about planet Saturn. Head-dresses / crowns / helmets etc. were also influenced by what could be seen while looking in the sky, or "heavens".

Continuation of this post (Post 2/2) can be found in the reply to this.

>>510698139
Continuation from here: >>510698139

Post 2/2:

At this time, when planet Jupiter "ruled" the sky, all European cultures (and others) worshiped the same celestial "god" just in different, local cults and it was just easier and better for everyone to unite under the same organization and that's why Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire - for easier control of the population. Roman Empire led by Jewish intellectual elite united European religious cults under one organized religion of Christianity, otherwise European tribes would probably fight to this day between each other in cultist wars, while worshiping the same natural forces (planet Jupiter) as "god". Then Christianity was hijacked for political purposes. Just like "Jesus" was in reality planet Jupiter, "Mary" similarly was planet Venus.

For more information about planet Jupiter and its other deified personifications, reply to this post and request more data.

>>510691471
Lol did you get chatgpt to write that for you? At least make it less obvious

>>510697595
of course the jew tax collector had to come with them , this mf was treated like a pussy by the romans , i guess god is almighty and all sentient , but hey HE NEEDS MONEY , _george carlin
there a man in the sky , watching everybody at all time , if you don t do what he wants you will be tormented for eternity in the hell fire , BUT HE LOVES YOU ...
if jesus had accomplished anything , why are we still killing each other , making the money pass before everything , not giving a flying fuck of the poor people ,
i think they were bored and writen a good scenario for a movie , people liked the scenario , and they make it the official truth because it would make the gentile be submmitted to jew propaganda, also the coran is wiping the ass of moises , jacob and abraham , and add some other peace and love laws to make the muslims more incline to peace , but even the muslim don t give a shit , they kill each other like there s no other day and will not share shit with their own coreligionists , so all these books accomplished nothing , is that the power of the allmighty god ? the allmighty ducks accoplished more stuff in hockey , the old testament is a cool story , i like it better because it s way more hardcore , but the probability of this being the absolute tryth for me is like saying that spiderman received the mighty power of a spider and joined the avengers to save the world ....

>>510697086
>you cant draw your own perfectly reasonable conclusions when evidence in inconclusive. You have to make the same assumptions I do or you are in a cult

>>510697096
>Bro there are millions of Hindus that still believe it, still doesn't make it true does it?
I think we are discussing different things, my point is that crucifixions were a verifiable common thing back then during Roman times.
>Secular scholars only accept that he was crucified
Glad we can agree that the crucifixion did took place.
>Not a single one accepts he rose.
The missing body in the tomb, all of the apparitions reported by multiple people in several ocassions (unless multiple people are hallucinating the same thing? even a crowd at some point), similar tombs discovered in the same area where the apostles claim he was buried. There is also women from that era giving testimony of this, which is significant because nobody gave a fuck about women back then, their opinion wasnt taken seriously. So why would the gospels include that? and the previous point of the apostles willing to die for these claims also adds weight to this.
>Can you show me one actual account by the apostles written by themselves and not attributed to them? Where are these so called accounts? We actually have well documented history of the early Muslims. Still doesn't make Islam nor Christianity true due to these citucmstancial claims.
It was probably oral tradition, before it was put into writing. Actual writings would be the ones done by St. Paul himself with all those letters he wrote to everyone. I really dont know about Islam so I cant refute you there, but I am glad you have all those very convenient detailed texts around to support Islam.

>>510697806
i have faith and i have read the old testament , the bible the coran , the talmud , everything but the torah , and this sound like a movie made by some peasants and two protitutes , a fairytale , like alice in worderland , or any man created superhero , at my age shame means nothing , my country is a shithole and always have been , if your not born a king in france , you are a "gueux " with means a fucking peasant , should i be proud of living in such a country , my grandfather came here to avoid being killed by spain s franco regime , i have nothing to be proud of in france , we re slaves for the elites and that s all they us as

>>510697984
You're alluding to heuristics. An englishman translating a latin document originally written in greek.
I will make this very simple for you:

The oldest manuscripts that exist match their contemporary copies.

This means, anon, that an old scroll from 250 BC copied over hundreds of years remained 99% accurate to its source material.

>>510695488
This

Eat shit and get fucked OP ya fucking fag

>>510698538
britain was so miserable in all of his history , you had 3 solutions in life
_being a soldier
_being an artisan or a peasant
_being a monk
so all the cowards lazy ass fucks of course chosen to be monks and write mountains of papers BS
trust me bro i was a monk in the years 600 in a fucking island that was at war with the pagans vikings , pagans vikings that came and kicked the shot out of their monks ass , the only thing in life that i believe is certain is the principal rule of nature , kill or being killed , that s a certain rule , verifiable all day , in all species , hide or being killed is valid too ,be smart or being killed works too , why are the rules writen in these holy books as simple to verify ?

>>510699075
“Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”

What profit has a man from all his labor
In which he toils under the sun?
One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever.

Sure is awful jewlover cope in here

also if god is so powerful and mighty , why would he not take 1 minute of his time to come say " hi i m god , watch your ass because if you fuck up , i ll burn your asses for eternity , listen to me , jesus abraham and jacob or wathever or else "
that wouldn t need a 500 pages fucking book for everybody to read , and not even saying that there s so much religion that worship bullshit like cows for indians and blue girls with six arms with is even more bullshit and even more stupid than christianity judaism and islam ,
there was a time people worhiped a regular egyptian dude that couldn t even keep his own kids alive , another like the mayas were so full of shit they were completely anihilated , and the vikings with their pagans fairytale with odin and valhalla , "die in combat or no valhala " cool way to control people , but not acceptable in any way as a true event that really happened , as i say , equivalent to worshipping a contemporary superhero because we saw him saving the world from evil in some hollywood bullshit movie

>>510690235
just look when they were first compiled by Marcion. Gospel of Luke vs Gospel of Marcion. Luke/Marcion is 150 AD (max.)

>>510699275
the earth abides forever , but it s not able to speak a fucking word of his own history
one clueless generation passes , and another clueless generation comes
but the freemassons and the bankers control this bitch since the templars invented the banking system , in france nobody can work on the old building but the "companions" they are the freemassons s working class , because only them are able to reproduce the beautiful old monument work style , we are short life categuory people , there are long term institutions , and they decide what we can know and what we can t know , i wonder if they want us peacefull and never revolting , the bible woud be the perfect book to impose on u s , it s all about the controllers and the controlled

>>510689737 (OP)
Finally someone gets it. The first christian persecution under Nero was persecution of jewish terrorists in rome. They wouldn't become christianns for another 50 years.

>>510699275
stfu with your mental gibberish jewish whore

>>510697352
>Philo
Once again, name a work of his where the failure to mention the newfound christian religious branch would be notable. Surely at some point this scholar discusses the modern state of the religion in judea, with the saducees and the pharisees and the zealots, where the opportunity to mention the messianic christians would be notable and its lack of inclusion? Surely youre not just randomly throwing out the name of an author who only focused on theological treatises and histories of early judaism in the age of abraham and his sons?

as i said , THE CHURCH imposed people to believe that the earth was flat , anybody saying the earth is a sphere , was named an "heretic" and was killed , and we re supposed to believe that this long term institution has never worked on the bible to change the narrative in their favor ? they went from old testament to new testament just like that , men writing texts for simple men to control them , and most of all TAKE THEIR FUCKING MONEY every church day , to build some cathedral (with is nothing else that a palace / luxuous castle ) just for them , it makes me think about the superchurches in USA , fake as fuck but people with go and give money , all of this is the name of god , just as if god couldn t pay for his own palaces and shit , everything is fake and corrupted , religions are a way to control the masses and make them peaceful , while the long term institution rubs their hands , killing , stealing , and anihilating everybody that s against their narrative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo

>>510696959
>The oldest manuscripts of scripture are nearly identical to contemporary copies
mark has a shorter ending. many manuscripts from 400 AD (the oldest extant manuscripts of mark 16) lack the longer ending you can find in the modern bible right now

>>510690418
Wrong you stupid asshole.

https://evidenceunseen.com/theology/scripture/historicity-of-the-new-testament/evidence-for-an-early-dating-of-the-four-gospels

>>510690418
>None mention the Temple still standing
Yes, they do you fucking asshole.

For, tell me, is not the dwelling place of demons a place of impiety even if no god's statue stands there? Here the slayers of Christ gather together, here the cross is driven out, here God is blasphemed, here the Father is ignored, here the Son is outraged, here the grace of the Spirit is rejected. Does not greater harm come from this place since the Jews themselves are demons? In the pagan temple the impiety is naked and obvious; it would not be ease to deceive a man of sound and prudent mind or entice him to go there. But in the synagogue there are men who say they worship God and abhor idols, men who say they have prophets and pay them honor. But by their words they make ready an abundance of bait to catch in their nets the simpler souls who are so foolish as to be caught of guard.

(4) So the godlessness of the Jews and the pagans is on a par. But the Jews practice a deceit which is more dangerous. In their synagogue stands an invisible altar of deceit on which they sacrifice not sheep and calves but the souls of men.

>quoting that — you just made my
>from the Lord” — not from
Random dash for no reason, AI thread lmao

when in doubt, try this
CLINICAL TEST QUESTION
>are you descended from south asian subcontinental ancestry?
any answer longer than "no" means yes
not answering means yes
lying means yes

only a few specific groups have the time or inclination to spam anti-christianity so frequently. one of these groups (pajeets) is much more numerous and less qualified than the others

pajeets hide behind free memeflags instead of expensive vpn because they are saving money for scam credentials to migrate to their chosen host organism/nation. they have to conceal their identity which is synonymous with that agenda, or else they are simply ignored as the spam they are

>>510700420
Mark 16:9-20.
A subject of canon rather than copyrighting.
Prior to canonization early church fathers considered these verses legitimate or at least apocryphal and so these verses entered canon at least as early as the council of Hippo, but they were quoted as early as Polycarp and Irenaeus.

>>510700570
I like how author tries its hardest to make you believe Luke is 70 AD. it is not. Luke is an edited Gospel of Marcion (roughly 144 AD min.)

GOD BLESS AMERICA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tp0UNcjzl8

>>510691665
>You keep quoting the Gospels.I’m talking about Paul,
The books of Acts and Luke are from the same letter. You've gotta be one of the most retarded hook nosed kikes ever to put faith in nothing. Just remember how much you deserve your fate when it happens.

>>510701215
>but they were quoted as early as Polycarp and Irenaeus.
Ireneaus had to deal with the fact that Marcion beat them on publishing the gospels. There was no Gospel named after Luke when Marcion was alive. It was only after Ireneaus that "Luke" is mentioned by a church father

>>510689737 (OP)
2nd TEMPLE got btfo

3rd TEMPLE WILL GET BTFO. HEY JEWS, FUCK YOUUUUUUU YOUR MESSIAH IS DONALD TRUMP SO FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>510701802
You're not actually suggesting gnosticism predates the Christian church (or the lectionary) are you?

>>510702206
marcion is not gnostic, and, if anything, i rather just go and tell you magus christ predates jesus christ, and this whole religion thing is a meme.

we are simply discussing the dating of the gospels. Ireneaus insists that Marcion is corrupting the texts therefore Marcion indeed had some of the earliest texts. we can easily date them to 140 AD but we cannot make a case for Luke. futhermore we don't know how much Marcion and the Church edited these texts

>>510689737 (OP)
wow would you look at the time memeflag, it's ANTI-CHRISTIAN #6571 O' CLOCK

>>510702862
>Ireneaus insists that Marcion is corrupting the texts therefore Marcion indeed had some of the earliest texts.

That's not really the subject of debate though since Ireneus claims the gospel was ancient to him.

At this point, since no manuscripts can be dated to that time, you would rely on testimony of the gospels existence from some contemporary source.

In this case it just needs to predate Marcion to refute your point.

Take the letter to the Corinthians by Clement of Rome where he quotes Luke 17:2 written before Clement became Pope in 92 AD making it, at the earliest, 50 some years before Marcion produced his canon.

>>510704469
>where he quotes Luke 17:2
anon, please. i just told the name Luke was first attested after Marcion by Ireneaus. the text Clement used wasn't given a name. the gospel was anonymous
modern christians say he is quoting Luke just because Luke has that text. and that's the issue i am bringing up. Marcion has those texts but we cannot say whether Marcion Gospel and/or Luke Gospel were not edited from these originals. after all, we know from mark that they can be edited

wait, since we are mentioning Acts. shouldn't we address that the combo Luke/Acts is tone dissonant. It is entirely written to end jew traditions in christianity which on itself fits well with Marcion's messages and the sentiment caused by the jew rovolts around that era. It doesn't help that the Pauline Letters literally started existing with Marcion and they are more of the same (Meanwhile the Pastoral Pauline letters are considered firgeries —and some academics go as far as claiming Ireneaus forged them.)

Placing Luke/Acts at 70 AD is such a joke

>>510705719
All that is really beside the point that Clement quoted the gospel. Specific to your point, a gospel that does not support Marcion's doctrine. ( triune God, old and new testament God being the same, divinity of Jesus, Clement didn't quote anything exclusive to Marcion's canon )

To put another way: we can't say for certain when the Christian doctrine definitely began but it's clear Marcion's doctrine began with Marcion.

>>510706083
>Pauline Letters literally started existing with Marcion

You know Clement quotes Paul's epistles too right?

>>510706532
>quoted the gospel.
THE?
I hope you are not implying that that's the Gospel of Luke. Both Clement and Marcion has texts of a gospel. Since it is lost we cannot talk about it much less say THE gospel did and THE gospel that. It's not beside the point. the point is christiany is not using the originals and by 200 AD everyone, peaseant or not, were writting their own little testaments.
>triune God, old and new testament God being the same, divinity of Jesus
>in the gospels
anon, jesus literally had to go to the fucking jews and tell them to not complain about him being a son of god because they did the same with their ancestors... which is utter bullshit from jesus. the text jesus is quoting is specifically about the sons of elyon and —as we see in the unedited septuagint, the samaritan text and the DSS— YHWH is included among the sons of Elyon; Deuteronomy 32:8-9

please, save your theology for yourself. let us focus of the dating of these texts
>>510706640
I don't recall that. where is it?

>>510689737 (OP)

lying deceitful kike

>>510691471
>Because the “prophecy” in Mark 13 perfectly describes the destruction of the Temple — down to “not one stone left.”
>Not vague. Specific.
>No reason to invent that scene before the event unless you knew it already happened.
>This isn’t rare — it’s called vaticinium ex eventu (prophecy after the fact). Common in ancient texts.
Super-important point and well made. I am pretty sure the Book of Revelation falls into that catagory, describing catastrophic events in the 13th or 14th Century followin the Crucifixion of Jesus.

There is a massive historical discontinuety around then and over here we have the Doomsday Book right after, a whole-country land survey in which huge areas of central and Northern England are described as "wasted".

Fomenko says the New Testement was written up first my Constantinpole monks in medieval times then the oral history of the Old Testement written up around it after. To fit.

>>510689737 (OP)
>controlled demolition
>jewish elites observed the siege from inside the roman camp
>future roman emperor who oversaw the siege, out of all the women in the roman empire he had his pick of, chose a jewess for his mistress
>his father adopts a literal jew into his family and allows him to use his roman family name and titles and write propaganda in their name
>are convinced at some point to burn all 'alternative' versions of history and events, the jewish gospels are not effected by this policy
>jews burned their own grain supply at the start of the siege
>jewish defeat meant 80,000 jews entered into (((captivity))) and those poor jews were forced to live in the roman capitol, amongst the wealthiest and noblest roman families. poor jews
>neglects to mention these people literally tried to burn down rome not even a generation prior, and now theyre welcomed with open arms back into rome
makes sense to me

>>510707316

>1Clem 46:8
Remember the words of Jesus our Lord: for He said, Woe unto that
man; it were good for him if he had not been born, rather than that
at he should offend one of Mine elect. It were better for him that
a millstone were hanged about him, and be cast into the sea, than
that he should pervert one of Mine elect.

Matt 26:24

>1 Clem 30:3
Let us therefore cleave unto those to whom grace is given from God.
Let us clothe ourselves in concord, being lowlyminded and temperate,
holding ourselves aloof from all back biting and evil speaking, being
justified by works and not by words.

Ephesians 2:8

I see a wall of text.

>>510707508
we say jew here
kike is a jewish invention, approved for their slaves
probably has something to do with kykeon and communion. jews probably interpret it as "master" or "i am a stupid goyim and a spiritual thrall whose wholly dependent on your superior jewish spiritual wisdom for which i voluntarily choose to partake"

>>510698402
Weird how no historian mentions the dead rising huh?

>>510689737 (OP)
fake and gay

>>510689737 (OP)

The Bible is the final Word of God, tard.

>>510695488
>Daniel 9 predicted
No lol

>>510708252
>The Bible is the final Word of God, tard

>>510689737 (OP)
>be a faggot jew
>create this thread
Many such cases.

>>510707845
whats it like voluntarily retarding oneself? is it like buying up all the dictionaries inside of your own mind and just changing the definitions of words like 'truth' and 'god' to mean 'jesus, the jewish character in the jewish book jews wrote' (which most states made compulsory)

>>510708338
ah, the inevitable 'goyim question' that the torah necessitates. i wonder if they figured it out.

>>510707845
>Matt 26:24
>Ephesians 2:8
i mean, these are not quotation but citations and they are not part of the text.
either way, this is not anti-support.
alas was there really any Marcion Doctrine? Church Fathers talked it about like it had Manichaeism's level of success

>>510692380
>Matthew 24 was written after the temples destruction and inserted afterwards to appear that that was the 2nd coming of christ
Or, that it literally was the Second Coming of Christ, this time in Fury, and He destroyed everything in his path.

There is pretty suspicious artwork depicting this and the strange life of Eliezer ben Hurcarnus (Eliezer son of the hurricane) who after some very peculiar arguments about bread oven design (for long-winded reasons a likely reference to now-missing rings around the Earth) died and when he did he did he used his "powers" to destroy 1/3 of the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_ben_Hurcanus

My guess is a close pass of Mars on a slightly more elyptical orbit than today, pictured.

>>510689737 (OP)
Sandnigga babble is real, yet I don't want to mingle with sandniggas hurdur.

Fucking retards. It's that lower tier NPC's need religion and this is what we're working with or else I'd spit on all of you gullible shabbos goys.

>>510709062
>There is pretty suspicious artwork depicting this and the strange life of Eliezer ben Hurcarnus (Eliezer son of the hurricane) who after some very peculiar arguments about bread oven design (for long-winded reasons a likely reference to now-missing rings around the Earth) died and when he did he did he used his "powers" to destroy 1/3 of the world.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_ben_Hurcanus
okay, enough internet for today

>>510692604
>Paul’s undisputed letters
What makes Paul's letters undisputed? He never met Jesus as a man.

>>510689737 (OP)
Homo and very mental take on this...

But hey satan has to work for his pennies also

>>510689737 (OP)
i honestly belive Romes war against jews never happened and Jew always controlled Rome.

In fact i think Jews were the Nobles of Rome.

They had laws preventing them from labor and military service. Poor jews could only swindle the masses and enjoy life.

>>510694077
Might it not be that that part was interpreted in later when Constantople arranged for the scriptures to be written down for the first time in the Medieval period?

>>510694466
>You think Mary could read and write? You think the apostles when they first followed Christ they all knew reading and writing?
I noticed this. I don't think Jesus necessarily could read or write either. There is once instance I can find is making symbols in the sand when the lady was caught in adultery. Otherwise He seems to know the key books and psalms off by heart. Which is as one would expect in a pre-literate society.

Fomenko says writing wasn't invented until the 13th Century and everything written before that is either misdated or fake.

>>510695083
>There is no evidence of jesus existing
Same goes for every single historical figure prior to about 1720AD.

It applies to you too. Is there any evidence of your grandmother's grandmother existing? Did you keep her ketubah? Thought not.

Did the Peugoet 205 ever exist? Archeological evidence is scanty.

>>510695083
>There is zero historical evidence of Paul.
On the contrary. There is so much evidence for St Paul that he lived three times!
https://www.q-mag.org/st-paul-did-he-live-once-thrice-or-not-at-all.html

>>510691990
What the fuck, where the hell did you get that idea?

>>510690418
>All treat its destruction like a known fact.
No, they don't. They tell that Jesus says he is going to destroy the temple.

>>510696053
>Your god is a fake moon devil and your prophet fucked children.
This is an error. Prior to Jesus everyone followed one world region, star worship. Christians, Muslims and Saturn worshippers, and the year was 360 days and perfect 30 day months.

Every religion since the time of Jesus has vestigates of star worship but no longer does star worship, because the Life of Jesus showed us. Now the year is ~365.25 days with imperfect ~29.5 day months.

Criticising Muslims for being Moon worshippers is absurd. Firstly because that is not what their flag depicts, secondly because until the 17th Century it was a Christian symbol too, and thirdly because they stopped being planet worshipper when we did, when all the planets apart from the Moon disappeared off to be specks of light on the ecliptic never to do anything again.

If you must know the Star and Crescent depicts a much earlier event, likely Saturn (the crescent) being drawn out of alignment by Mars. In English mytholgy that appears as the Jack and the Beanstalk story. The crescent are the cows horns and Jack is the star on the right, leading the Bull (or cow) away, one of the most terrifying and destructive events in human history.

>>510696772
That happened. You wait, it will happen again. Every thousand years or so. Or one of those stars that lying physicists say is "light years" away (no such measure) will come crashing through the Solar System and pull us of into a new orbit and new sun.

Plenty of legendary accounts say it has happened before, seemingly multiple times.

>>510689737 (OP)
>maybe if we say Christianity is a 4D chess jewish conspiracy the tinfoil hat goys will get demoralized

>>510696934
>horns represent kings
Horns are planets. In particular planets in "polar" orbit, that is stationary over a pole instead of orbiting the equator.

Given strong enough electrical forces planets can hover like that, and we seem to have done ancently given all the wheel and crescent legends, e.g. Father Christmas. There could be planets doing that over the Sun today and we would not be able to see them because the Sun is too bright.

>>510697096
It is the rising again that is important. And that is attested to world-wide. Lots of eye witnesses. Only really Arabian proto-Muslims insiat he was a man only. Probably because they knew him and so seperated him from subsequent events.

>>510690457
LMAO seethe harder you brown monkey boy, you know he's right. >>510690509

>>510692621
>There's more historical evidence for jesus than there is for Mohammed, youre a faggot

And? There is still almost evidence at all, especially for the magical bullshit that the (((Babble))) claims happened.

>>510695784
>the apostles willing to die horrible deaths where they could have simply recanted their beliefs to avoid brutal excecutions.

Because they were brainwashed retards just like you who actually believed the bullshit. None of the statements you've made are hard evidence.

>>510689737 (OP)
Actually all abrahamism is fake, gay, and Jewish. The entire bible disproved itself with nothing but failed history and prophecy
The entire book is pilpul cope about how "oh we must have sinned, that's why everything we predicted failed"
Total abrahamic death

>>510698186
>Jupiter
Certainly the Hebrew equivilent of Jehovah (pronouced like Jove anyway) but that is God the Father. In that model who then is Jesus, God the Son?

Btw, Arabs aee sure a great prophet called Issa lived among them. May be seperate from the celestial events he foretold.

>>510713509
brainwashing isn't real.
we'd be able to fix homosexuality if it were.
the term is just used as a pejorative (same with mental gymnastics) for people who believe things that you don't like so that you don't have to actually engage with their positions out of laziness or stupidity.

>>510689737 (OP)
>Gospels written after this
Show flag Chaim

>>510694082
Show a manuscript from when the quran or plato was written down.

>>510700420
>many
2 and the one has massive empty space after the stop.

>>510701405
>reddit's favorite "comedian"

>>510710750
they deny Jesus but will say every other historical figure existed.

>>510689737 (OP)
>Roman Empire collapses,
Was in process of doing that without Christianity which has extended its lifespan and then maintained one of the most lasting Empires in history

>>510697206
Since God wants to save everyone, why would he make it so that only 150iq professors could decipher it? Barring special circumstances, everyone can understand the Gospel at the very least and the rest by study.

>>510698186
Btw m8, you would be welcome to post on the 8kun catastrophism board.
https 8kun dot top /catastrophism/

You would fit right in.

>>510714152
God the Father is Saturn.

>>510708335
>claim: the bible is the word of god
>support: the bible says it is
>justification: the bible is infallible
>basis for infallibility: because it is the word of god
>loop: the authority of the bible is justified by itself
your image is very cute, but every worldview is ultimately circular.

empiricism
>claims: knowledge comes from sensory experience
>support: we observe that observation works
>loop: experience confirms the reliability of experience
scientism:
>claim: the scientific method leads to truth
>support: it has produced reliable results
>justification: empirical success validates method
>loop: the method is justified by its own outcomes
naturalism/physicalism:
>claim: everything that exists is physical or material
>support: all observed phenomena can be explained by physical processes
>justification: because non-physical entities haven't been empirically verified
>basis for trusting empirical verification: because only physical things exist.
>loop: physicalism is justified by empirical methods, which assume physicalism

>>510698538
They are a string of consonenrs without punctuatio or spaces and all capitals. Really they could say anything.

RPLYNLLCPSRYRMTHRWLLDNHRSLPTNGHT.

>>510689737 (OP)
Every single aspect of Christianity is Jewish.

>>510714157
>brainwashing isn't real.
the elementary school teachers only teaching good things about faggots is brainwashing.

>>510714834
i can read this but don't want to repeat it nor reply in all caps

>>510714721
>every worldview is ultimately circular
>empiricism
experience can change.
>scientism
results can change
>christianity
interpretation of the bible can change

>>510709761
>In fact i think Jews were the Nobles of Rome.
Similar position to Fomenko. Jerusalem on the Bosphorus and capital of the "Roman" empire at that time.

>>510696959
Hebrew had a maximum of 3000 words before Christ.
The KJV has over 14,000 in the old testament.

>>510689737 (OP)

Atwill.and Green are a little schizo for my taste. Talking about prophecies after the fact is also a waste of time when you can easily prove that the "messianic prophecies" from the OT are passages lifted out of context and some are not even prophecies at all.

>>510689737 (OP)
Based
Protip: Paul and the apostles never existed

>>510714326
>they deny Jesus but will say every other historical figure existed.
Yes. It is sad. Jesus is the most well attested to figure in antiquity who ever lived.

>>510715395
you're comparing the changeability of conclusions (empirical results, scientific findings, biblical interpretations) rather than the foundational epistemological loop i was pointing out.
the original point was about how each worldview justifies its foundation, not how its conclusions evolve.
epistemic circularity rather than pragmatic fluidity.

I will never understand the mind of the jewish slave, the christian, who, knowing he is a slave to a religion jews invented for him, will slavishly continue worshiping them, despite knowing all of it is fake.

Why? Because without the jew to define his world for him, he has no meaning.

Beasts of the field.

>>510715729
Moses and Abraham didn't either. But people choose to believe a fiction.

>>510715664
>you can easily prove that the "messianic prophecies" from the OT are passages lifted out of context
i'd like to see that easily proven.
how about Isaiah 53, Micah 5:2 or Psalm 22.

>>510711958
>>510714718
>God the Father is Saturn.
Could be. I had more in mind the world-wide known Jesus being a manifestation of Mars as he is explicitly the son of God (per your picture).

I agree about the etymological connection between Jesus and Zeus. He-Zeus.

Come over to the 8kun catastrophism board and leave these no-planet goys behind.

>>510716022
>Because without the jew to define his world for him, he has no meaning.
i'd like to hear about your non-Christian meaning-making worldview.
does life have inherent purpose and meaning? if so, how?
how do you make sense of suffering within your worldview?
what grounds your worldview?

>>510716022
I will never understand child rapists like you.

>>510714721
In real life nobody abandons sensory experience. In a classroom you might nod sagely and say solipsism (essentially what your post is describing) could be reality, but then you leave the classroom and when a car honks, you jump. You can make weak pretend arguments about how you can't really be sure about the evidence of the senses either but nobody, and I mean nobody, actually lives their life that way. We're committed to the senses. Pretending otherwise is just for rhetoric like what you're doing here.

Believing in the Bible is an extra layer on top of that since you must have accurate senses in order to read a Bible, not at the same level. So there's no actual equivalence between Bible thumping and believing your senses, one is much more fundamental and; in practice; universally agreed upon, while the other is dismissed by 2/3rds of humanity.

>>510714721
>loop: experience confirms the reliability of experience
many experiences confirm...
>loop: the method is justified by its own outcomes
... many outcomes.
>loop: physicalism is justified by empirical methods, which assume physicalism
...multiple experiences of physicalism.
>loop: the authority of the bible is justified by itself
this is static.
the authority of the bible is forced by human figures of authority.
parents, priests, kings.
the others are logic and according to form.

>>510714721
>but every worldview is ultimately circular.
Not really

>>510715081
Haha. Well done Anon. Most people can't read it. And if you try hard you can make it says other things. Really it is a memory aid to reciting rather than literature.
>RPLYNLLCPSRYRMTHRWLLDNHRSLPTNGHT
Rip all ye nail like pesssary. Rome though will London hear, slip then on Ghent.

First not very good attempt at a deliberate wromg parsing.

David Palmer has been calling out flaws in Biblical parsing for decades. A voice in the silence. No one wants to know.

>>510715839
>the original point was about how each worldview justifies its foundation, not how its conclusions evolve.
Conclusions do evolve though. The bible and Christianity doesn't

>>510717041
>David Palmer
Gah, forgot link. This fellow. Methodist minister.
https://davidgpalmer.co.uk/

>>510716332
>does life have inherent purpose and meaning? if so, how?
both your purpose and meaning are according to your form.
your arm is capable of swinging a hammer, your form encourages creation, your purpose is to build, if you mind yearns to create.
suffering is in opposition to your form, if you suffer your form is asking for change.
everything is according to form.

>>510716089
>Isaiah 53,
Christians retrofitted Isaiah 53 to fit Jesus’ life, emphasizing details like suffering and death while ignoring parts that don’t align, such as the servant having "descendants" (Isaiah 53:10), which Jesus did not have.

>Micah 5:2
debunked because it likely refers to a historical or near-future ruler, not a messiah, and its application to Jesus relies on New Testament reinterpretation rather than clear textual evidence.


>Psalm 22
debunked as a prophecy because it’s a poetic lament, not a predictive text, and its application to Jesus relies on questionable translations and selective parallels drawn by New Testament authors.

I'm sorry your dad raped you

>>510717102
it evolves, through its interpretation authority, which is the foundation of christianity.

>>510716089
>Isaiah
Mistranslated. For should instead be from. It says that the nations will feel bad for being sinful and abusing the Jews
>Micah
Bethlehem Ephrata is the name of a clan in the tribe of Judah. The Messiah does not need to be physically born in the town of Bethlehem.
>Psalm
It's about keeping faith in God no matter how hard things are and all will be alright in the end. Psalms are also poetry, not prophesies.

>>510716332
>does life have inherent purpose and meaning? if so, how?
I make it so.
>>510716332
>how do you make sense of suffering within your worldview?
Depends on the context of said suffering
>what grounds your worldview?
The golden rule

>>510717424
Christianity doesn't evolve. It just changes interpretations. Hence the over 30k divisions.

>>510689737 (OP)
>Gospels written after this, not during Jesus’ supposed life.
They were written within the lifetime of the apostles

Most of the bible is half-truths mixed with lies written by jews to destroy other jews. a jewish civil war that still goes on to this day.

heres a good audiobook about it for the interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9A7LasY4IA

>>510716076
Correct
Judaism is the merging of a primitive pagan midianite volcano god (yahweh) and the high god of the pagan canaanite pantheon (el). Pre Babylonian exile jews were polytheistic yahwehist savages who sacrificed first born babies TO yahweh and asherah among others.
During and post exile jews then blatantly plagiarised and retconned the code of Hammurabi, Babylonian creation myths and Persian Zoroastrian concepts. Post exile they plagiarised middle Platonism during the Greek Seleucid hegemony. Everything they stole was then retconned and bastardised through the lens of collective jewish malignant narcissism.before being scrambled together in the Greek septuagint in Alexandria circa 300BCE. Therein jews projected their own sordid savage religious practices onto foreign gods, foreign peoples, "pagans" and "apostates" in quintessential jewish fashion. Jews steal everything, corrupt it and then claim provenance while projecting their own savagery onto others.. They are a nation of thieves and liars and those vices extend to their own retarded retconned creed, history and mythos.

>>510695083
>CE
this is bait

>>510717453
the golden rule is rooted in empathy.
empathy is a marketing scheme.
>>510717530
that's evolution of theology.

>>510689737 (OP)
>Gospels written after this, not during Jesus’ supposed life
Well shit, so you're telling me that the books describing Jesus' life and death were not, in fact, written while he was alive?
Shit mane guess I'm a gaytheist now

>>510689737 (OP)
>Weaponized scripture becomes long-term civilization destroying tool.
>2000 years later and civilization is still around
Kek. It’s only after abandoning christianity in the 20th century did western civilization start to fall apart and allow mass invasion of brown people and giving all power to homosexual Jews
You can always tell when it’s a Jew trying to be anti Semitic because their ego won’t allow themselves to not be portrayed as nearly omnipotent

>>510689737 (OP)
Christianity is the ultimate psyop

>>510689737 (OP)
>2000 year conspiracy
What a Jewish take.
Christianity is so weak yet it destroyed strong pagans?
The Jews made up a story about them trying to kill the son of God and eventually succeeding in turning him over to be tortured to death?
If the the Jews made it all up why would they write themselves as the villains of the story, the ones Jesus rebukes and offends?
Its a 2000 year conspiracy but the Jews forgot to make goys worship Israel so they paid Scofield off to include Israel worship?

You guys hate Christianity so much that you’ll make up all kinds of lies in order to tie it to the Jews (who’ve always been the enemy of Christians).

Your own brains are jewified by television and film, and you never claim to be under the influence of Jewish ideas yet you’ve spent so many of your hours soaking up Jewish entertainment, literal brainwash direct from the Jews.

>>510717335
apologies for the late responses, was doing some yardwork

>Christians retrofitted Isaiah 53 to fit Jesus’ life… the servant has ‘descendants’…
that's a misreading of verse 10, the hebrew word for "offspring" (zera) can refer to spiritual descendants, not necessarily biological children.
historically, many ancient and medieval jewish sources interpreted isaiah 53 messianically. the targum of jonathan explicit refers to "my servant the messiah," rabbis like nachmanides and moshe alshekh affirmed this view. it wasn't until rashi in the 11th century that the "nation of israel" interpretation gained traction.
>[micah] Likely refers to a historical or near-future ruler…
it says
>Out of you [Bethlehem] will come one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.
"from ancient times" is often interpreted as "from eternity," suggesting prexistence. this isn't a Christian spin, rashi himself acknowledged the messianic nature of this verse. even if micah had a near-term ruler in mind, the language and later jewish interpretations point to a deeper messianic layer.
>It’s a poetic lament, not predictive…
"they pierced my hands and feet"
"they divide my garments... cast lots"
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me"
these aren't vague parallels, they're specific and historically attested.

>>510718543
>why would they write themselves as the villains of the story
They didnt. The Romans were the bad guys. Later gentile converts changed the emphasis towards blaming non-christfag jews and so things got more complex
But the poison pill was already ingested ie semitic universalism and masochism

>>510717976
https://youtu.be/plSeSTN4xWY?si=ToOo_vuG8r6gswIx

>>510717450
>isaiah
the hebrew prefix "mi" can mean "from," "because of," or "for" depending on context. even if we translate it as "because of, that stills implies a substitutionary suffering, he suffers due to others' sin not his own. the broader context of isaiah 53 describes a sufferer who is "cut off from the land of the living" and "bears the sins of many," it's not just poetic, it's theological. the idea that isaiah 53 is about the nations repenting for mistreating israel is a modern interpretation, the targums and medieval rabbis saw this as messianic. the servant is said to be innocent, silent, and voluntarily accepting suffering. that doesn't match the collective experience of israel which includes rebellion and sin (see isaiah 1)
so even if you argue "from" instead of "for," the passage still supports a vicarious redemptive role that Jesus fits remarkably well.
>micah
yes, ephrathah can refer to a clan or region, but in micah 5:2 it clearly refers to a geographic location.
the verse says "small among the clans," which is a poetic way of saying bethlehem is insignificant among Judah's towns.
the prophecy distinguishes this bethlehem from another in zebulun (Joshua 19:15), making it clear it's the bethlehem of judah, david's hometown.
the ruler's origins are said to be "from ancient times" or "from eternity" which suggests more than a local leader and rather a preexistent messianic figure.
so yes, tthe messiah being born in bethlehem is significant and the new testament's claim that Jesus fulfilled this is rooted in legitimate reading of Micah.
>psalm
that's certainly one interpretation but i fail to see how that "easily proves" the psalm couldn't have been prophetic, given the fact that it was.

let's see what else....
>>510717453
>i make it so
worthless

>>510716433
Christians actively defend child rapists. You are child rapists. Your protection of Epstein and Israel speaks volumes about your "humanity".

>>510717237
i like the teleological nature of it.
i appreciate the clarity it offers,, the arm builds, the mind creates, suffering signals misalignment.
but i wonder if that framework fully captures the complexity of the human experience. are we merely functional beings, like tools shaped for a task, or is there more to us (consciousness, longing, moral intuitions) that transcends physical form?

if suffering is simply opposition to form, how do we account for suffering that leads to growth, wisdom or compassion? what abbout suffering that seems unjust, like that of children or victims of natural disasters? is their form defective, or is there something deeper at play?
in my worldview, meaning isn't just embedded in design but revealed through relationship, narrative, and transcendence. suffering isn't just dysfunction, it can be redemptive, a path to deeper communion with God and others. meaning emerges not just from what we are, but from who we are becoming, and who we are in relation to the divine.

does your concept of "form" include the soul, the conscience, the capacity for love and sacrifice? or is meaning purely mechanical?

>>510716433
Children are not capable of informed consent.
Informed consent is capable after the child's mind becomes and adult.
The human form changes from a child into an adult through puberty.
Puberty is where the human form develops the mental and physical capability and understanding of sex.
It is against the human form and thus bad to have sex before or during puberty.
How does the bible decry child rape?

>>510689737 (OP)
You're dumb.
Rome was weakened when a series of men (igniting civil wars) declared themselves "emperor", thus ending the Roman Republic.
Read about Sulla - how much wealth and men were expended as he tried to consolidate all power under himself.

>>510689737 (OP)
>how did I know it would be a meme flag?
>Good morning Rabbi.
Christ is King

>>510690418
You're dumb.
They are "all" eyewitness accounts.
Luke was not one of the twelve but he was obviously highly involved since he also wrote the book of Acts.

>>510690454
Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus
That's why his life flipped around so radically.
Paul (who was the most educated) then wrote how the Jewish law had come to an end and that God's plan had come to involve the entire world.
Dumbass.

>>510719850
Christ is a jewish rabbi.

>>510717754
>the golden rule is rooted in empathy
Yup
>>510717754
>empathy is a marketing scheme
Nope. You've never worked in customer service, taken public transportation or volunteered in a homeless shelter >>510717754
>that's evolution of theology
Nah that's stagnation

>>510718626
>that's a misreading of verse 10
Nope

Come back when you don't have a lame ass excuse

>>510719069
>>i make it so
>worthless
To you. Because you're not me

>>510719521
>if suffering is simply opposition to form, how do we account for suffering that leads to growth, wisdom or compassion?
why would these concepts be dichotomous?
depends on what you label as suffering.
In the proverb "no pain, no gain" pain is suffering for the betterment of your form, it is your form asking for repair, or change, to better itself.
so suffering is not inherently bad in all cases.
>is their form defective
it is in a defective state asking for change through suffering.
your form is all encompassing all that you are, ethos pathos and logos, the divine spark.

>>510689737 (OP)
rome collapse because of secularization which led to lower birthrates and importing slaves/immigrants.

if rome became christian sooner it would be still standing

>>510718626
>these aren't vague parallels, they're specific and historically attested.
No they aren't lol. It's retrofitted

>>510720482
jesus was davids linegae who had reddish skin or hair (white genes). you think a jew could say to not care about money? theres a reason why they killed him and never converted to what he preached kek. + its rather greek as well

>>510720668
>jesus was davids linegae
Not really. Jesus isn't the flesh and blood of David. Joseph isn't the biological father and Mary has zero lineage documented

>>510720255
you can only empathize with people on the level of their physical form.
Panhandlers can make up to $300 per day
In big cities they can make up to 120,000 a year.
They take advantage of your perceived empathy.
Serial killers regularly get love letters in prison.
You can not empathize with a non-human on even a basic form level, you can only pretend.
>that's stagnation
going from zealots in rome, to crusades, to paying to get into heaven, to we are the real hebrews, is an evolution of the idea. Ideas don't need to progress to evolve.

>>510720668
>>510720793
yall are just like niggers

>>510720793
>joseph isnt the biological father
so you believe in the giospel then? why havent you converted? you know you ll burn in hell rigth?

>>510721132
its literally source in the jewish writings? retard

>>510721023
>you can only empathize with people on the level of their physical form.
Also not true.

This is the dumbest shit I've read so far today

>is an evolution of the idea.
Not really. It's the same moronic shit in a different cloak. Still wielding the same dagger

>>510720463
i'm intrigued by the breadth you give to "form," encompassing ethos, pathos, logos and even a divine spark. it's a richer vision than i initially grasped, not merely mechanical but woven with the intangible, soul conscience and capacity for love. i like how you frame suffering as a signal for change, not always negative but sometimes a catalyst for grwoth, like the pain of exercise forging strength. it resonates with my view of redemptive suffering, though i see it as part of a larger narrative tied to divine relationship.

still, i'm curious about the edges of your framework. if form is all-encompassing, how do you account for the diversity of human forms, each with unique desires, capacities and experiences? does every person's form inherently point to a universal purpose, or is meaning entirely individual and shaped by each unique form? and what of suffering that seems purposeless, like the child lost to disease or disaster? is their suffering still a call to change, or does it expose a limit to form's explanatory power?

in my worldview, even if the seemingly unjust, finds meaning in a transcendent story, God's redemptive arc, where pain can forge communion, hope and eternal purpose. i wonder if your "divine spark" connects to something beyond the individual form, perhaps a larger unity or purpose. does your worldview allow for a collective meaning, or is it rooted solely in the individual's form?

>>510721138
lol
>>510721170
spiderman is a jewish writing too
kys

>>510721138
>so you believe in the giospel then?
This idiot
>>510720793
>>jesus was davids linegae
>Not really. Jesus isn't the flesh and blood of David
Learn to read

>>510721255
>spiderman is a jewish writing too
>kys

>>510721289
either you believe in the gospel and jesus came from god, or you dont and then you cant say jesus just popped out of marys cunt and joseph isnt his father ?

>>510721390
who wants to go to a heavan filled with niggers?
no thanks

>>510691665
Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus,.
That's why Paul doesn't write a firsthand account of Jesus's life, but writes what God reveals to him through the Holy Spirit.
Without the Holy Spirit, none of these men could accurately describe in detail the life of Jesus, since memory fades.
Without the Holy Spirit, the early church would have faded, since there were stories, but no scripture yet available.
Without the Holy Spirit, Christianity would not have penetrated so quickly thru the Roman "empire".
Jesus said he was Creator God, yet working through the agency of men to bring his revelation into the world.

>>510689737 (OP)
> memeflag post
Yikes.

>>510721602
Hitler was a black Jewish man. Checkmate, transjew.

>>510721237
>does every person's form inherently point to a universal purpose, or is meaning entirely individual and shaped by each unique form?
both.
>suffering that seems purposeless, like the child lost to disease or disaster?
their purpose is of a greater form, above the individual, leading others of the same or similar form to gain further wisdom of their own form on that level. Like a child who dies of shelfish poisoning or many who suffer from trichinosis, a custom of abstinence makes sense.

>>510695083
Not that it's a rational argument with documentation or video, but when I asked God about it through a pendulum, I received that the entire OT is a forgery and most of the NT is as well.
That's besides the possibility that the info which the Council of Nicaea didn't rape wasn't true either.
Revelation is the only thing 100% authentic, but the context is that of John having a vision, so that makes sense. Whether it's recounting the past or projecting that sequence into the future doesn't really matter to me, cycles repeat all the time, I can accept either option.

>>510691780
The destruction of the temple was absolute catastrophe to the Jews and signified the fulfillment of another prophecy - that if the Jews turned their backs on God, he would push them out into the nations of the world, where they would be hated.
The flip side of that prophecy is that God says he would then have mercy on the Jews and gather them back from among the nations to the land he gave to Abraham. This concluded in 1948.

>>510721512
Agreed

>>510719069
Descendants means descendants. Man does the thing with woman descendants come out. The religion of the tanakh is intensely materialistic. God's reward for the faithful is a long and prosperous life on earth and is very vague on what comes after. The next one says that Ephrata may be insignificant but the Messiah will come from there. Palms are poetry. No ifs ands or buth about it. You are stretching the text to match your preconceived conclusions.

>>510721957
You're right, it isn't a rational argument. Mysticism never leads to anywhere good.

>>510721424
>you cant say jesus just popped out of marys cunt and joseph isnt his father ?
Jesus, if he existed, is bastard of Herod or a Roman soldier

>>510721602
>Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus
Just like Joseph Smith "met" Jesus and Moroni lol

lots of kangs ITT

>>510722263
Mohamed tells a similar story with his cave angel

>>510689737 (OP)
Stop being a pajeet and read the book you've posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVKrYbyFlyM

/thread

>>510719850
Genetic fallacy.

>>510722129
It's where Paul deceived so many.
Everything he wrote came from nowhere but his imagination.

>>510689737 (OP)
Incorrect. You're right that paul invented christianity, but the religion was used as an instrument by the roman empire. The point was to convert jews, later everyone else too.

>>510722084
>noooo it has to be literal biological descendents!!
זרע is used metaphorically all the time in scripture.
>justice in proverbs 11:18
>righteousness in hosea 10:12
>light in psalm 97:11
>trouble in job 4:8
>wind in hosea 8:7

>You are stretching the text to match your preconceived conclusions.
i disagree, and even if so, you've utterly failed to "easily prove the messianic prophecies from the OT are passages lifted out of context"

>>510692604
Why does Paul have to mention Pilate?
Being a Pharisee who didn't follow Jesus around he is mainly interested in how the Jewish law has ended and the world is treated thru God's grace. Since Paul got to meet the actual Jewish "Messiah" later, he gets to marvel at what it all means.
If some of the Gospels take parts from Mark, how does this affect their accuracy - especially if Mark is assumed to be a verbal recount by Peter?

>>510722568
Kek of course lol

>>510717711
>this is bait
The AD system did not start until 525 "AD". They fudged and fucked with dates to fit theology not history. That is one more proof that the gospels are bullshit. They have kniwn dates of censuses and reigns of kings wrong. Christcucks could not tell you when their imaginary friend was actually born. Because he wasn't. BCE and CE is just a way of stepping away from theology and sticking to historical evidence not tales of zombie jews who walk on water.

>>510692866
Basically Jesus is the hero of the story because he makes up for all weaknesses of men. Jesus also shows up at the precise moment in history when Greek was the accepted language in the Roman "empire", meaning the Gospels and Scripture would be quickly passed into the known world.

Are jannies ever going to do something about these fucking endless bot posts?

>>510693979
The Old Testament, written for the Jews by Jewish men was obviously written by God himself.
How do we know this?
Because most of the major figures screwed things up and yet none of it is hidden.
Jacob steals his birthright.
Jacob's sons sell the youngest son into slavery and tell their father animals killed him.
David has sex with a man's wife and has the husband killed to cover it up.
Most of the prophets spend time talking about how the Jews don't believe God and don't follow the rules.
There is no way ordinary men wrote the Old Testament.

>>510722848
If you actually read the whole thing before during and after you will see that it's about the restoration of Israel. As I said. Lifted out of context.

It is explained in greater detail here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/vw11ry/isaiah_53_has_nothing_to_do_with_jesus/

>>510694077
KeK.
You are absolutely right.
It's astounding the level of detail Daniel presents.
And what Daniel must have thought writing the Messiah would be "cut off"?
The Messiah was supposed to be a sort of Jewish super hero who would save the day.
That's how we know the Bible was not written by men saying things they wanted to hear.

>>510724079
Do you think fiction is written about perfect people living perfect lives or are you being sarcastic?

>>510724392
>read this reddit thread
shan't

the targum of jonathan explicitly identifies the servant as the messiah.
sanhedrin 98b refers to the messiah as the "leper scholar" citing isaiah 53:4
midrash ruth rabbah 5:6 interprets isaiah 53:5 as referring to the messiah's suffering
zohar ii, 212a describes the messiah entering a palace of suffering to bear israel's afflictions
pesikta rabbati depicts the messiah accepting the suffering to redeem israel
yefeth ben ali says the messiah suffers vicariously for israel
maimonides (rambam) interpreted isaiah 53 as messianic in his letter to yemen
mosheh kohen ibn crispin criticized the collective israel view and affirmed the messianic reading
rabbit alshekh declared "our rabbbis with one voice" saw the messiah in isaiah 53

>>510697671
this has to be bait. Galileo wasn't killed and people have known the world is round since long before his lifetime.