Thread 519258532

How do you actually talk to liberals/leftists when their matrix is so thoroughly reenforced? I know the solution is to simply "give up" and focus on other things. But these are my friends, and peers, and I am growing tired of simply sitting idly by. I sense them losing out, and becoming more isolated, but I do want to change their minds, and do so without going scorched earth.

There's got to be a way, surely?

>>519258532 (OP)
>How do you actually talk to liberals/leftists
you don't

>>519258532 (OP)
You can separate people by how they define a nation. When you learn that a subset of people are pro equality (aka ignore reality), diversity (genocide), democracy (aka rule by the stupid), and subsidy (aka dysgenics and retards must live), then you understand there is no changing their mind.

>>519258532 (OP)
I gave up. They're too sensitive and too emotionally reactive to the slightest disagreement.
Not worth it. Unless it's someone you really love, man, forget them. They're gone.

>>519258814
>>519258872
That's just crazy though. What is to happen to them?

Surely something could break though? Maybe not the whole enchilada, but a chink in the armor? I'm trying to workshop places to start.

>>519258532 (OP)
I've been reading "Simulacra and Simulation" by Jean Baudrillard and its pretty insightful so far. Its a short treatise on the idea that we're all constantly simulating one another in our own minds, and projecting that simulation onto others as our natural process of socialization; but that modern media and technology has expanded that paradigm so it (through memes) gains an authority of its own and has since turned MOST people into zombies of a few hive-minds.

>>519259123
That's pretty interesting. I will check that out. Have you any thought on how to apply these concepts?

>>519259109
A sensible solution is to just leave them be. They form clusters in densely populated cities like gayborhoods. It's a self-correcting mental asylum. Obviously don't give them any mind and don't place them in any position of power or influence, political or otherwise. Sooner or later their decisions get them killed via AIDS/HIV/drugs/gambling/etc.

>>519258532 (OP)
Maybe your beliefs are all gay and weird and you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Pray for them. It may not even be possible to improve the situation with words

>>519258532 (OP)
you need to compile emotional arguments for emotionally driven people. And you need separate arguments with muh "facts and logic" for the intellectual larpers. I am 40 years old. It is rare, but on occasion I talk to someone I haven't seen in 3, 5 or 10 years. There has been a few times where they tell me "man you were right..." - it's because I planted a seed in their mind. No one sees a single image, video or book and then bam, changes immediately. It takes time.

>>519259357
No, no. I am seeing people spinning their wheels and having daily crashouts over utter trivia. They are like deer with prion disease, smacking their heads into fenceposts and brick walls. I feel bad for them.

>>519258532 (OP)
You've got to hit them with evidence that they're wrong. When they try to use evidence against you point out that their evidence says their isn't a genocide in Palestine and that Israel are the good guys and force them to acknowledge that source lies to promote an agenda as a result.

It really depends on the issue but with immigration for example I've had good progress using the grapes of wrath as an example of why immigration is bad and pointing out that its more expensive to love in coties because there's more people and cheaper to live in small towns where there's less people so ergo adding more people to the country will only make things more expensive. I also ask them what the people in those countries apparently lack as 100% of the time they have fertile soil, cattle, lumber, and textiles and could easily grow all the food they want, build all the shelter they want, make all the utilities and medicones they want, etc. I also point out that even if ot would result in essentially Mennonite-level communities that's basically equivalent to turn of the century America and almost everyone agrees the quality of life was better back then but then show them that it wouldn't even be like that because they most likely have one or two areas with modern electricity, WiFi, and hospitals so it wouldn't be any different than here. They already have everything they need the problem is theyre too violent, lazy, and/or dumb to cooperate together to take advantage of their resources.

>>519258532 (OP)
One day the ginger pedophile will be gone, a decent person will be in office, and all the hatred and evil that the far right are sowing will begin to be undone.

You will see an unprecedented swing against the right in your midterms.

>>519259521
Good advice. Subtlety.. I feel as is my silence on issues compels subconsciously.
My girlfriend doesn't even know the full scope. I am slowly redpilling her.

>>519259698
This is why redistricting will be happening anon

>the party that believes in magic rabbis and denies epstein happened calls others delusional

???

I like to push them to the extreme end of their own ideology. Then just keep pushing until they eventually push back against their own ideas. It does require that they don't already know your position on things however for this to be effective.

>>519259224
Lets use LLM terms to clarify.

You just have to understand that most people don't think agenticly. That is, they think about what they're thinking about, but they don't have agency to choose what they think about.

So in my life an example is my sister, a math teacher. She's said to me directly,
>I don't understand what's wrong with teaching kids about the evils of Slavery™

And I naturally think,
>I mean... for one you're a math teacher... So the 1,000,000 Americans sold into North Africa should outweigh the 500,000 Africans sold into America? Ugh.

But to communicate realistically I have to acknowledge the simulation she lives in: the only slavery that has ever happened in human history is from 1800 to 1850 in the south of the United States alone and that's it.

BUT ALSO this is a solid 130 IQ educator with genuine curiosity about the world. I can't tell her, "it wasn't a big deal, shut up about it," I have to say, "lets talk about the European holy book that opens with a story about slavery and our ancestor's trek to overcome it."

Bridging that gap means cutting holes between layers of simulation, NOT trying to incrementally bring someone to slowly understand reality from their present place in un-reality. (Protip: your simulation isn't reality.)

The vocabulary development in the book is nice, its building my ability to teach meta-cognition very well. If you can figure out ways to make KNOTS in logic between layers of simulation, you can FORCE people to acknowledge reality. Easily the best way to separate those who can wake and those who only pretend to sleep.

>>519259902
I have done this lol. But that is why they require you be vociferously leftist to be accepted as one of them, to root us out. I'm nowhere near convincing enough.

>>519259637
If they really have the full leftist brain disease, nothing you do can fix it.

Instead, identify which of your friends are salvageable, and redpill them over time, while seeming like a reasonable person. Don’t be afraid to criticize your own side sometimes, because it gives yourself credibility.

>>519258814
I know your a chud on 4chan so I don’t need to ask this but you are aware this type of politics just will never resonate with normal people ? Normal people don’t fester in their rooms for days on end writing political screeds cus some niggers did some crime down the street

So yeah don’t bother cus you’re just gonna get yourself ostracized by your friends. They probably already think your a weirdo as is

>>519258532 (OP)
Make them aware of raceial or religious reductionistm. They have explanatory power too, not just class reductionism.
Making a leftist hate jews shouldn't be difficult.

>>519259109
>What is to happen to them?
they move to portland and troon out then kill themselves, the end

>>519259923
>Bridging that gap means cutting holes between layers of simulation, NOT trying to incrementally bring someone to slowly understand reality from their present place in un-reality.
This is it. Thank you very much anon, good post.

>>519258532 (OP)
https://youtu.be/kNBuPkRP0Lw

>>519258532 (OP)
You can't think for a man, he sees what he wants to see

>>519258532 (OP)
Anon... I'm sorry but there's no way dude. They call it "the woke mind virus" for a reason. There's no getting them back. Mourn the living, because they are fundamentally changed forever. Maybe they were born susceptible to this shit but regardless, who you knew before is gone. This goes for both sides honestly, but when they're liberal it's a whole new level of crazy. It's fucking bizarre.

>>519258532 (OP)
You have to ignore everything that you've been taught about redpilling normies to redpill a leftie. You have to start with (((them))) but make it about their white skin I think I've said too much

>>519260295
Whoa

>>519258532 (OP)
You can't talk reason with demoralized people.

>>519260149
I missed this post but yes, this has been a highly interesting angle. Even then they have the "am I doing a heckin' antisemitism" limiter, but still. Pretty huge hole in the line as of late.

>>519258532 (OP)
>But these are my friends, and peers
Wrong.

>>519260404
>You have to start with (((them))) but make it about their white skin
I just replace jew with banker. Its hilarious how easy it is to get people to want to kill bankers with only a couple sentences.

>>519258532 (OP)
You have to make up your mind in advance whether you’re willing to purge them from your life or not. I have a literal troon coworker whose political views are just as insane as you’d imagine. Nevertheless, my job is very well paid and I like it there so I’m not going to risk it just to reveal my power level to this freak. What I do instead is make a game out of it, and see how close I can get to “her” without compromising or revealing my true nature. We talked about how much we both despise Israel, and “she” has come to view me as friendly coworker. I give her a nice smile when they pass me by and “she” returns it. When the time comes, I can leverage a person like this to move myself further up or throw her under the bus. It’s much easier with a smile, and since my interactions with her are entirely artificial, I don’t have to invest any emotional energy into the outcome. I have no compunction about doing this because just underneath the surface I hate people like this.

Now the harder ones are actually the people you could get out of your life, like family. Family and friends are inherently valuable and I won’t throw one away over petty disagreements. That being said, you’re at a disadvantage because these people actually can get under your skin. Your interactions with them are genuine which means negative shit is actually going to bother you. Still, there’s only so much of their shit I’m willing to listen to. I recently cut off my brother cause he just would not shut the fuck up about his views, even when asked politely to tone it down. I drew a line in the sand, he of course immediately crossed it, and I said if he wanted to speak to me again he would have to start with an apology. Keep in mind this is a man I’ve helped personally and professionally many times, and yet a simple request for him to simply chill out around me was apparently enough to make him go full blown nuclear lefty meltdown.

This guy

Still believes in anything besides shitposting having any power

>>519260575
Well. Yes many of the men would probably sell me out in a heartbeat etc. But I feel bad for the women, who are often very lovely people.

>>519260221
Good OP. Lets hear more anons chime in.

>>519260643
Have you learned nothing in the last 5 years?

>>519258532 (OP)
>There's got to be a way, surely?

Ask them questions. Most of their beliefs are based on nothing. If you expose them to their own ignorance they will be forced to think.

>>519260691
The ones I am thinking of are not so demonic. They're even tame. But I know they're used to a certain way of thought.

The out and out conservative women are generally happy, and hot.

>>519260643
>women, who are often very lovely people.
Holy shit anon I'm out. You're one of them btw don't worry you'll fit in.

>>519260806
You posted twice, and I'm referring to a few people I know, not women by and large. Take it easy.

>>519258532 (OP)
Traditionally, you don't.

>>519260606
I would just add that the psycho-spiritual ethos of the right is inequality and that we draw our strength from power. This is probably the most important lesson.

Since cutting things off with my brother, I’m content with leaving them there. My honor dictates that I don’t escalate further unless he does. However I know he will.

My father is dying and everyone knows it. He put me down as exclusive power of attorney (because he knows my brother is a retard), and I’m going forward with getting to be the full executor to his will after he passes. All of this is unknown to my brother, but I know that he wants certain things from the will and has for a long time. He’ll get nothing. I imagine he’ll threaten a lawsuit. I hope he does actually so he can waste even more of his time and money before I just send his attorney a copy of the will.

You see once it crosses that line, you have to be willing to go scorched earth and burn everything down, which depends on you laying deep trenches and deriving your strength for power. Real power, positioning yourself in a place of dominance, whether that be through professional competence, physical strength, or intellectual guile. If there’s one thing lefties are completely incapable of understanding is that you can’t fight bullets with ideas.

>>519258532 (OP)
>How do you actually talk to liberals/leftists when their matrix is so thoroughly reenforced?
I tend not to. I'm not interested in debates anymore. And I know neither one of us are going to change our minds. The line in the sand has been drawn and people at this point, have already picked their sides on issues.
But when I do engage with leftists. I found the best thing to do, is to not backdown or go on the defense. They expect that shit and have rehearsed for it. They aren't ready for someone to just say "Yeah, I'm racist, misogynistic, hate kikes and I hate them (liberals)"

Another thing they don't understand is they think everyone who is Racist and shit, is stupid and only hates blindly. They don't expect you to be ready with a list of reasons for why you are the way you are.

It is a long process.
First off, drop the idea of wanting to change their minds. You can't force it and trying to will only make things worse. People can also tell when you are trying to manipulate their views.
Just be their friend. talk to them about anything besides politics. If the topic is some kinda nerdy shit, talk about stuff you like. Not what woke horseshit pissed you off.
Once in a while just make a comment, an observation, a joke about something that goes against the dogma. Nothing too extreme or too edgy and it has to make sense within context. No randomly talking about how much you dislike negros. Israel doing Israel things and the media is covering it? Just something like "Fucking Israel man..." is enough to plant the seed. If you both see some black foolishness, just a sideways glaces and sigh is enough to get the point across. If/when you do complain about things. complain about things that are universal and foundational. Like Infrastructure and housings issues. The point is you want to build up trust between you and them. You want them to know you have the best intentions at heart, but see things differently.
When politics does come up, you are gonna need to learn how to navigate their language and turn it on them. You also want to avoid anything that you could see being called bigoted. I'm not saying don't say those things, more so you want to be more vague and open with things. Immigration? Your talking should not be these non whites causing crime and taking jobs. It should be how we can't even help the citizens who already are here, we literally can not take care of the world. We are told over and over again that we can't afford to fix the healthcare system, the school system, the infrastructure. Pick your battles. Find a weak point in the dogma armor and poke it. Just enough for them to notice their "armor" is rusted.

The idea is you want them to come around on their own.

>>519260102
Go fuck yourself Jew

>>519260102
>Normal people don't just collectively lose their patience and adopt extreme politics
>What does world war 2 have to do with anything?

>>519261462
You see once it crosses that line, you have to be willing to go scorched earth and burn everything down, which depends on you laying deep trenches and deriving your strength for power. Real power, positioning yourself in a place of dominance, whether that be through professional competence, physical strength, or intellectual guile. If there’s one thing lefties are completely incapable of understanding is that you can’t fight bullets with ideas.


yes.

t. no contact with family over being the blacksheep and whipping boy but now being the best of my generation in terms of having a future.


i enjoy your takes and example set.

>>519261657
>But when I do engage with leftists. I found the best thing to do, is to not backdown or go on the defense. They expect that shit and have rehearsed for it. They aren't ready for someone to just say "Yeah, I'm racist, misogynistic, hate kikes and I hate them (liberals)"
>>519261657

Anon, you just have to be handsome. every cute PoC chick gets turned on when she finds out your a racist, and wants to convert you with her body, sometimes man the real cure for racism is to BLEACH, that being said if your unattractive and say that, your probably going to have them start shrieking and attracting attention or causing NPC's to attack you.

t. on the leaderboards for ranked competitive racism in Canada.

>>519258532 (OP)
can't have a nation without (b)order(s). if they recognize that and are above room temp IQ, you can usually provide them with some decent arguments as to why they shouldn't be retarded faggots about what's going on. if they're willing to say fuck America because ICE and Trump and the poor brownoids and shit, just drop 'em. they're not worth your sanity brother.

>>519260606
>What I do instead is make a game out of it, and see how close I can get to “her” without compromising or revealing my true nature.


Also, this is a really fun game, i do it too and im pretty much Obi Wan, teaching the next generation of Jedi.
>Who grow up to be darth vader.
.gov workers are funny and remind me of deer, cause anytime they get startled they just start counting things.

>>519261657
>They don't expect you to be ready with a list of reasons for why you are the way you are.


Aparantly im in the wrong for refusing to talk too, do buisness with or even work on the same crew as pajeets because ive been ripped off 5 times by them in the trades, so im a racist because i dont work for them now.

>muh not all of them ar-
i dont care, multiple boomers of my bloodline have been ripped off or had their retirement taken.
>but you cant judge people by the color of their skin, not muh content of the char-
>When was the last time a Japanese person was convicted of a criminal offense in Canada.
>never.
Thankyou.

>>519260606
real sociopath vibes

>>519260102
Friends, at least mine, are people who share tips and ways to make their lives better. We don't sabotage each other the way leftists do when they hear their friend or ally accidentally do a wrongthink. We've gradually moved further and further away from insane crowds who believe all the above. Yes, we're quiet about it in public and laugh anytime some moron relaxes around apes, but we're probably the silent normal, not the vocal ones you believe are normal who goon and consume anything trendy.

>your a weirdo
I can smell your rotting fish yeast infection. Try not to give yourself away so easily. Imagine moralfagging on /pol/

>>519258814
>subsidy
oh yeah god forbid our society helps some people out and improves their life. It disgusts me.