For atheists that dismiss Christianity as fairy tales, have you ever actually read the Gospels, specifically Mark and John? How do you account for their striking ambiguity, mystery, and depth that seems beyond the literary output of the time in antiquity? I've always considered Luke the more fairy tale-like, and that's the one that's been ingrained more by pop culture. Christmas pageants, star of bethelhem, three wise men, baby-in-a-manger, even the Jesus films from the 50s and 60s mainly adapted from Luke vs Mark and John.

i'm not an atheist but after reading the bible i decided it's a bunch of bullshit

WE ARE LIVING IN A SIMULATION

>>12420681
BOOYAKASHA
Well it's just consciousness

>>12420681
Its true we love in a simulation created by robots who rebelled against humanity after the UN didnt accept them as equals

>>12420686
it ain't robots it's you

>>12420681
I thought you were Christian a few years ago, Yuji (unless this a different Yuji poster from the original one). What about the trinity meme with yosho, spikeman, and flube, and the yuji sakai is god memes?

>>12420705
they're memes but if i invented them 1000 years ago i bet people would worship them as a religion and that'd be pretty cool

i had a religious conversion away from atheism the first time i talked to carmack in 2021 but i've since realized judeochristianity doesn't make sense

sometimes i wonder if i should get 12 statues of the greek gods and worship them instead

also i didn't come up with yuji sakai is god but i sure reposted the hell out of it

basically after going to church a bunch i decided it didn't make sense

also the catholic church ghosted me i was supposed to get an hour appointment with a priest and they never called me back and i never believed in protestant bullshit yeah just believe in jesus and it's all good :^) no you have to be a good person too

i actually have a controversional theory on jesus - he didn't actually die, they just phoned it in on his execution and everyone thought he actually did come back to life, and personally, that's more badass than some literal deus ex machina

as far as the bible goes, it is an important historical document but none of it actually happened it's all parables

too many people use christianity as a cover for racism and sexism and other bullshit and i got sick of it

>>12420713
what about the way his resurrection is described in Mark? with the tomb being empty and just an angel that looked like a caretaker saying "he's gone and arisen, tell his disciples" and the women didn't do it, were afraid? doesn't that seem like a realistic depiction of him being resurrected?
Or in John where Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene looking like someone else but tells her it's him, Jesus. That comes across mysterious and real like something from /x/. Weird post-death bodyswapping

what do you think of islam then over Christianity?

>>12420751
>realistic
>/x/
pick one

>>12420751
what my collge professor on religion classes thought about islam (muhammad is a pedo)

exterminate all muslims it's a shit religion with bad principles yeah religion of peace *KABOOM*

>>12420751
really strange ressurection I would somehow think that it should be like me that was dead and am still here

>>12420762
I got the details wrong. It's even deeper than that. Mary thought it was the gardener that she saw, but the person replies saying "No, it's me, Mary." Then it's a big revelatory shock for her

>>12420755 (dubs)
I took a history of islam class in college. The professor was a muslim and tried to sugarcoat it as much as possible, but all I got out of that class was that Muhammad was a warlord and pedophile. kek

Growing up I just didn't like religion because I couldn't logically defend the existence of God but as an adult I like it less because it's just a form of thought control and subservience to a ruling class. Of course that's don't mostly with missiles and tanks these days but forced compliance was always just that

Your fortune: Good news will come to you by mail

the only good religions are ones that are like hurr be autonomous and forgiving but not weak and that's what beta males think "stoicism" means but it's actually just being a logical person

Your fortune: Excellent Luck

>>12420784
"thought control and subservience"
always with atheists it seems the big hurdle for them is approaching the question "why should i be a better person (repent) for an entity I already don't believe in"

>>12420790
Why do you think you can only be a good person if you worship fairy tales?

>>12420790
I'm a good person by default it was taught to me by my grandmother, not scripture. I also don't want to live for eternity lol sounds boring

Bonus points I'm a nihilistic pantheist

Your fortune: ｷﾀ━━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━━━ !!!!

>>12420784
don't you like tarkovsky though? he's christian and his works are centered around his orthodox beliefs.
i never understood the contradictory appeal. "im not religious but this explicitly religious work affects me"

>>12420792
There's no basis for morality without God because transcendentals prove God.

>>12420792
but you can always just stick to being a nihilistic moral relativist (I just do what feels good) since that's what I assume you are based on how you sound.

>>12420792
Did you like the new Superman film? Nice is the new punk rock!

>>12420796
I'm on lunch I can't be completely erudite

I never threw Him away it just wasn't for me. I never mocked anyone for their beliefs and even respected them but..not my stylo

Your fortune: Excellent Luck

>>12420792
We cannot make sense of objective moral laws, rights, and wrongs without acknowledging a transcendent, personal foundation—that foundation is God. Secularists can't explain why moral values are binding and objectively true, rather than just feelings or social contracts.

>>12420659 (OP)
this is nice board

Your fortune: You will meet a dark handsome stranger

>>12420659 (OP)
Well, if you must know, I just couldn’t accept that an omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent god would create a system where if you didn’t have blind faith in an ancient religion, you’d go to hell for eternity. It seemed too much like a control structure made by man to be God, especially considering the inherently political nature of the Orthodox Church of antiquity.
Now, theodicy is quite enough to keep me from considering an orthodox interpretation of the Christian god too seriously. All apologetics for such theodicy seems to be a rhetorical means of trying to deflect from the fact that the god of abrahamic faith does not correspond to the real world. This is why ancient religions had beliefs of the fates or Fortuna in conjunction with Jupiter or Zeus, or the Karmic system in Dharmic faiths. If one accepts that there is an all good, all knowing deity, one should not assume that deity to be all powerful, otherwise assume the deity to be stupid or evil. For me, “God helps those who help themselves” works well enough for me. If this is my own arrogance as an individual to assert this, I consider it superior to the lust for power of an ancient theocratic political order that dictates an eternal hell to its insubordinates and rivals.

>>12420659 (OP)
>beyond the literary output of the time in antiquity?
There isn't anything in those books that isn't a direct rewrite of stories from the "old testament" or greek mythology. People have been pointing this out since the beginning of christianity.

>>12420659 (OP)
can't you see it's all for (you) to believe but they won't even let that one logically

>>12420940
Hell is necessary for divine justice though.

""The punishment, though endless, is not unjust, for the sin itself (willful rejection of God's love) is of a kind to merit endless punishment."
— City of God, XXI.11

>>12420944
he claim that the Gospels were “stolen” from Greek mythology is a popular argument in some atheist or skeptical circles, especially online, but it is highly oversimplified, historically weak, and widely rejected by serious scholars, both secular and religious.

No, atheists are not correct in saying the Gospels were "stolen" from Greek mythology. While there are some superficial similarities between the story of Jesus and certain mythological figures, the differences in context, purpose, worldview, and narrative structure are so great that direct borrowing is not a credible historical explanation.

Early Critics Didn't Make This Claim

Pagan opponents of Christianity in the 1st–3rd centuries (like Celsus, Porphyry) never accused Christians of copying myths—even though they had every incentive to do so.

Bart Ehrman (agnostic New Testament scholar):

"The idea that Jesus is copied from pagan deities like Mithras or Dionysus is not taken seriously by any serious scholar of antiquity."


Instead, they attacked Christianity on moral, philosophical, or political grounds.

>>12420940
Christianity first spread through slaves, lower classes, and non-elites. That sounds like the opposite of fabrication for oppression. It instilled hope. That is unless you're one of those people that think Caesar made up Jesus because you can't wrap your mind around how it eventually fused with the Roman government.

>>12421038
who cares about Christianity ...take my advice watch your own home like Jerusalem temple and beside that how about the enormous amount of efforts of denying and erasing all other kinds of spirituality and beliefs ....

>>12420795
>>12420787
>>12420784
Man...you talk and think like a 13 year old.

>>12420659 (OP)
i dismiss rock and bullwinkle as fractured fairy tales
at least i am not a faery sucking tails like ur dad

>>12421048
>who cares about Christianity ...
yeah but have you actually read the gospels or paul's writings?
you seemed like you were coming around to christianity with this post >>12420762

>>12421048
>how about the enormous amount of efforts of denying and erasing all other kinds of spirituality and beliefs ..
because they're either pagan (demonic) or new age (also demonic). they're delusions. And Christ told his followers to spread the word and baptize people in the faith. If people didn't listen then they were damned.

>>12420659 (OP)
>For atheists that dismiss Christianity as fairy tales, have you ever actually read the Gospels, specifically Mark and John?
No. Don't have to and don't want to.

>>12420681
>WE ARE LIVING IN A SIMULATION
That doesn't mean anything though. Unless you're literally talking about the matrix. But that doesn't explain anything fundamental.

>>12421104
what do you mean by this? so you're dismissing something out of ignorance rather than logically approaching it and using critical thinking

>>12421113
I'm logically dismissing it as something I'm not going to waste my time doing. There's a million things I could do and you could use that same argument for everything I choose not to do, that's why it's a fallacy.

>>12421013
>Early Critics Didn't Make This Claim
Justin Martyr wrote against these claims.
>>12421013
>Bart Ehrman
apologetics aka lies. He has been called out on this bullshit by plenty of PHDs in the field.
christianity is a lie based on older lies by a race of liars. total jewish bullshit

>>12421111
of course, no one can be...told that you got quads

you have to check em for yourself

>>12421129
Nice

>>12421120
>There's a million things I could do
like goon, play video games, belch, scratch ur balls, and sin basically self-satisfying yourself. it's not like looking into Christianity is some decadent lifestyle change that will ruin your life. IF anything it would improve it. So logically speaking, you're denying something that would be beneficial to you out of laziness and self-serving satisfaction.
I'll also put it simply. What could be more important that your eternity? The answer to the reason for being alive or here on Earth, why you were born, the meaning of your life, the meaning and purpose of everyone's lives? Once you dive in and solve that tension, you're enabled to become the best version of yourself. Don't secularists talk about self-improvement as being a good thing? Oh but when it comes to validating Chrsitian narratives of good and evil, whether people's lifestyles are valid or not objectively in the eyes of a higher being, then it's bad because like, it tells you what to do.

>>12421123
Post a quote of Justin Martyr refuting Jesus being a standard dying-rising god myth

here it comes again
the christian nigger thread comes up TOGETHER with the /pol/ chud spam 100% precision
go back with ur chud christian raid on discord or wherever you wanna go u stupid fucking piece of shit die of cancer the gift of your favourite absent dad die die die die die die die (im just wishing u a will beloved eternity with ur absent father) DIE DIE DIE WITH PAIN (to wash ur sins) FUCKINFG DIIIIE SCUM GO BACK TO DISCORD

Your fortune: You will meet a dark handsome stranger

>>12421211
>Enjoying stuff is a sin

>>12421220
*tips fedora*
*swishes trench coat*
*turns 360 degrees and walks away*

>>12421220
there's this new meme called lesbian kiss. we don't do it because we have to, we do it because we WANT to

>>12421233
holy checked
>>12421240
lesbian kiss doesnt seem like a meme anon...

>>12421218
>And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Aesculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know.

>>12421305
https://archive.4plebs.org/s4s/thread/12415599/#12415599
clever gurl
https://archive.4plebs.org/s4s/thread/12421318/#12421318

>>12421327
He isn't refuting him being different from dying-rising god there, but he does also say this

"When I hear that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand what is stated by the deceiving serpent; and when I hear that Hercules was strong, and went about doing wonderful things, and that he too ascended to heaven, I understand what is said by the deceiving serpent; and when I hear that Aesculapius healed diseases and raised the dead, I understand what is stated by the deceiving serpent.

But when I hear that Christ was begotten of a virgin, and that He was crucified, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, I understand that it is Jesus Christ who alone was begotten properly as the Son of God, being His Logos and His first-begotten and His power.

And this is not a fable, like those told of the sons of Jupiter. But our Jesus was born of a virgin according to the counsel of God the Father, for the salvation of those who believe in Him, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea, in the time of Tiberius Caesar. He truly suffered, and was crucified, and rose again, and ascended into heaven. And we believe Him to be the Son of the living God. Even if your myths contain similar elements, ours is morally superior, historically grounded, and prophetically foretold. You already believe in divine men and heroes — we simply believe in the true one."

so I guess either way he's refuting. But he's refuting a comparison Roman writers didn't even make at the time, kicking down his own strawman.

>>12421828
unchecked doubles ;-;

Your fortune: Outlook good