>can you prove it?
>No?
Then get the fuck off my board

>>16653554 (OP)
Can you prove proving something will always make it truth?

>>16653564
>answering a question with a question
go back to /his/ here you actually need to provide an answer.

>>16653554 (OP)
>Schizo A: if I can't observe it then it doesn't exist.
>Schizo B: I observe it therefore it exists.
>Schizo C: others (don't) observe it therefore it does(n't) exist.
>Schizo D: if a statement about reality accurately and reliably predicts that another statement about reality will be observed as true/false then that statement about reality is how reality objectively is.
Have fun duking it out schizos.

>>16653564
The definition of proof is sufficient argument/evidence for a proposition to be true.

>>16653554 (OP)
Can you prove that anything is real?`
No?
Then nothing is real and all your arguments are wrong, so I win.

>>16653621
Can you prove that you are real?
No?
Then you are not real, you making the argument of nothing being real isn't real, so I win.

>>16653626
are you for real?

>>16653636
I can't prove that I am real. Then I am not real and all my arguments are wrong, so I win against myself and that dimwit(I) lost to me.

>>16653619
>it is thus because I defined it so!
Then I define the definition of whatever I say is sufficient argument/evidence for any proposition to be proved.

>>16653647
Your definition of definition of whatever you say is sufficient argument/evidence for any proposition to be proved is subjective hence it can't be a criterion for truth.

This is genuine /b/-tier horseshit thread. Why the fuck does this even exist?

Modern scientists are evil. According to them, the ancient Greek (Democritus - father of the atom) who philosophized the idea that 'things got smaller and smaller' should have just "shut up", because he couldn't prove shit.

Never mind that all you had to do was look at fucking SAND to have this sort of idea pop into the headspace.

Yes, there will be information forever invisible to us, either literally or only temporarily.

>>16653658
For every good idea like atom their exist a thousand bad ones which is why proofs are important. Spewing random bullshit will sometimes get you closer to truth but it's highly impractical and in the case of modern science can lead to a waste of billions of tax money.

>>16653645
please seek mental health immediately. you brain stopped functioning

>>16653688
But If I don't exist then my brain also doesn't exist. Hence, the term "mental health" has no meaning. So, you are asking me to seek no meaning which is the job of a nihilist not me.

>>16653668
>a waste of billions of tax money
this seems to be the point, Vivek for president

>>16653653
Your definition of proof been sufficient for any proposition to be true is also subjective hence it cannot be a criterion for truth.

>>16653554 (OP)
I agree but newfag meem compression + cropped ... c'mon son

>>16653705
That is not my definition of proof. It is not subjective and hence can be used for a criterion of truth.

>>16653568
what does schizo E believe?

>>16653720
Jet fuel can't melt steel.

>>16653658
This. The war against philosophy and mad science had turned the scientific community into a giant woman. If we stop throwing shit at walls to see what sticks we aren’t going anywhere.

>>16653668
>Spewing random bullshit will sometimes get you closer to truth but it's highly impractical
Let me tell you about the Chinese and the history of gunpowder…

>>16653719
Why is it not subjective? What makes it not subjective?

Faggots like Bohr kneel before Einstein’s erect, superdeterministic cock.

What if existence is literally a giant joke and we’re just unable to see it that way

>>16654504
>we
speak for yourself
t. nihilist

>>16654509
If you can’t think the joke is funny enough to not kill yourself then you don’t get the joke lmao

>>16654525
ok but nihilism is objective and only truth and I didn't kill myself

>>16654528
Okay so you still haven’t got the joke if you think nihilism is truth lmao

>>16654538
but it is, you're the one who didn't get it

>>16653554 (OP)
Can (You) prove things you believe in though? (Pro tip: you can't).

>>16654541
Lmao what is your definition of nihilism that is the joke of life my angsty little friend?

>>16654504
It could be that, but because physicists are so scared of everything they cannot entertain it. Even hard skeptics like Neil buy into simulation theory (but he denies the existence of aliens visiting us for some reason—when this is sort of indistinguishable). I don’t know.

>>16655159
>Even hard skeptics like Neil buy into simulation theory (but he denies the existence of aliens visiting us for some reason—when this is sort of indistinguishable).
Neil is incapable of detecting irony.

>>16656198
Most scientists are incapable of detecting irony

>>16657299
You made that up.

>>16657409
No?

>”philosophy is DEAD”
>continues to do philosophy

>”magic isn’t real!!!”
>continues to live in the 21st century

>”biology says men can get pregnant!”
>biology says men can’t get pregnant

>”aliens could never come here!”
>believes in simulation theory

Lol.

>>16657452
These are just generic sayings you listed with no source to who said them. If anything you're just generalizing vaguely. You're still literally making shit up.

>>16657533
You appear to be in cope mode.

>>16657630
I'm literally crying and shitting rn

>>16655159
>sort of
that the key point as to why he doesn't

>>16657452
>living in current year=magic
you ain't very bright

>>16657865
If you don’t consider nature or science to be magical then you don’t actually appreciate such fields, so you? You ass.

>>16657452

While rely on nihilism to avoid all? There are better ways like using Reductio ad absurdum

>>16653554 (OP)
Harmonious Frequencies or otherwise

>>16658264
do* you?

>>16653554 (OP)
Is this your bible?

>>16659467
What?

>>16653554 (OP)
Fuck off

Not a penny eat literal shit

>>16661704
Gas yourself

>>16653564
What does truth even mean if you can’t prove it

>>16663208
Idiots convince themselves that truth is a subjective opinion. Case in point: trans.

>>16653554 (OP)
It doesn't matter at all, only violence matters.
Anybody who can destroy whoever gets in the way is in the right, simple as.

>>16664949
Lashing out violently doesn't make something less factual or make you any more correct. The sun will still burn out and explode regardless of how many people you kill to say otherwise.

>>16657452
>”philosophy is DEAD”
Descriptive fields like metaphysics and theory of mind already give way to science. Ethical fields on the other hand can be informed by science but not replaced.
>continues to do philosophy
In a trivial sense, all of human thought is philosophy. That is not what is meant by "philosophy".

>”magic isn’t real!!!”
Picrel, anything more is schizophrenia.

>”biology says men can get pregnant!”
It doesn't

>”aliens could never come here!”
It doesn't seem plausible unless there is a way of breaking the speed of light we are unaware of.
>believes in simulation theory
Neil entertained it, but he doesn't believe it. Besides, that's one guy.

What's with all the humanitarians posting on this board? Go flip burgers somewhere else.

>>16663208
Truth means what will come to pass, a prediction of the future that will for sure materialize.

lol

>>16653554 (OP)
It's not really magic just an example of Clarke's Third Law.

>>16653554 (OP)
bro what board do you think this is?

>>16653647
>>it is thus because I defined it so!
Yes, that's how definitions work.
>>Then I define the definition of whatever I say is sufficient argument/evidence for any proposition to be proved.
Then you're using a different definition, we're not discussing the same thing and effectively arguing past each other. In the future, if you want to avoid communication problems like these, I recommend you quit being a smug retard and using commonly agreed upon definitions. You're not half as smart as you think you are.

>>16668164
Magic is Clarke’s third law. Saying magic “doesn’t exist” is about as useful as saying cold doesn’t exist, or dark doesn’t exist, or holes, etc.

>>16668086
you'r super hype and full of energy in your tone, how come? drugs, super diet, exercise and sleep combo?

I love how scientists are in denial of the magic all around them.

>>16670456
The magic is not important! Our BS is!

I can't prove your mom sucked a gorillion nigger dicks, but we all know that's what happened.

You can't prove anything in regards to science. Only fail to disprove it.

>>16653554 (OP)
Okay.

>>16670982
this. science is about validating. proving something would require you to do a supertask like doing experiments with infinite varying parameters. mathematics avoids this because of induction, which lets you prove an expression across the set of all numbers. you can't prove across the set of all variables in science.

>>16672639
Yes.

>>16653554 (OP)
I can in fact prove that I had penetrative vaginal sex with your female relatives, but I won't prove it to you. I just don't want to. What now?

Hm.

>>16653554 (OP)
ok

Epistemological air tight victory in all domains when we finally went as far as decided to want to go to look more like

>>16668509
Smarter than you that's for sure.
Simply ask yourself, has there ever been an instance where something is proven but turns out to be false.
This whole "by definition" argument is top tier wordcel brainrot that seeks to bypass any accountability to reality.
Anybody who can't see through this is fucking retarded.

@grok can you prove it?

>>16653554 (OP)
Okay

>we can’t prove it, it’s mysterious to us
>it’s not magic tho

>>16653554 (OP)
As real as voodoo or communing with the dead of which neither should ever be provoked.
>i.e. The Magic of Solomon

Reminder that things we couldn't prove 2,000 years ago were still nonetheless already believed.

Scientists fear philosophy because the internalized imagination -can- hit the mark, even absent externalized verification.

>>16653554 (OP)
There's more mystery/magic out there than not.

wavelengths

>>16685559
I am currently baked but I am convinced that this post ok particular is incoherent even when sober.

>>16687102
Cope.

>>16653554 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_trilemma

>>16689051
>ARGUING THE DEFINITION OF THINGS

>>16653720
E. All of the above

>>16685559
>>16686644
Nooooo lalalalala I can’t hear you

>>16653554 (OP)
no

>>16653554 (OP)
Whatever name or form it's given, the state of malignancy is always attempting to claim humanity.

>>16690304
lol

How is science not a series of black boxes within black boxes? How are scientists still in denial about the magic all around them? Are they afraid?

LLM playground thread

>>16653564
Yes (if I define statements that I proved as "true" statements)

>>16695234
Pic related

>>16695376
This is an intentional misinterpretation of the atheistic position. Believing that life and can be magical and believing you can convince God to cure your cancer if you ask really nicely are completely different ideas.

>>16695395
Nope. Atheists hate when people claim that magic still exists in the world. I once had a physics professor lose his cool on me for saying “well if you don’t see nature as magical then you don’t truly appreciate nature or science so you?”, and it wasn’t even directed at him.

Yes. There are people out there who see the beauty and mystery and wonder (and thus magic) within nature, and there are those who just cannot. They struggle to. They get angry. Very angry.

>>16695400
>so you
do* you

>>16695234
>>16695376
>>16695395
>>16695400
Blame people like Steven ‘philosophy is dead’ Hawking for this grey blob mental state. Materialism is fucking beautiful but materialists don’t see it that way. Even a God will have Godly Substance to Him.

>>16695404
>Materialism is fucking beautiful but materialists don’t see it that way.
It’s the same with theists, and not just the atheists, thobeit. They don’t want to see their god as something.
>Even a God will have Godly Substance to Him.
See right here. They will argue God has no substance, because they see God as bigger than nature. This makes no sense. They’re retarded. They’re arguing that he doesn’t exist!

>>16695395
>Believing that life and can be magical and believing you can convince God to cure your cancer
If that actually happened, it would be a case of a big ass alien just deciding to be nice to you, an ant, for some unknown reason, or purpose, maybe even just to entertain some silly belief system for the lulz. I don’t know. But that’s bedsides the point. Any sort of miracle of such degree will require a greater intelligence to put it into place. Why would ants expect jelly beans any other way? Coincidence? The jelly beans are still made in a factory.

Atheists don’t like to acknowledge that a sufficiently godlike alien being can totally be worshiped as a god or something.

Theists don’t like acknowledging that their god is just a big alien and believing in gods is a variant of believing in aliens.

>>16695395
Triggered atheist spotted. I guarantee you say shit like “it’s not magic”, at one point or another, anyway.

Saying “magic isn’t real” is a lot more apt, but it is nonetheless about as helpful as saying that “cold doesn’t exist”, or “dark doesn’t exist”, or “holes don’t exist”, etc.

Theists and atheists are both the same sort of annoying honestly

>>16697712
They really are. What is a god is a matter of perspective. All you need is something sufficiently godlike. Life is godlike.

>>16653554 (OP)
I saw it in a dream

>>16700479
Good image. But I still think the outside reality should be beautiful too.

>>16653554 (OP)
Bitch.

>>16703956
Cunt.

>>16702163
but it does

>>16653554 (OP)
Alchemy

>>16653554 (OP)
Asshole.

>>16653554 (OP)
Can you prove proof?

>>16653554 (OP)
Refined precious, infinitesimal elemental properties of metals engraved and proportionally processed, soldered onto layered fiberglass, relaying towards programmatically calculating, emitting synergic electrons, etched sacred geometry embedded. Technologically, magically, an innovation of dexterousness.

>

>>16653554 (OP)
faggot

>>16653554 (OP)
>b-but muh rick and morty multiverse...

>>16653554 (OP)
>can you prove it?
> Yes if I p-hack it
What now?

>>16653554 (OP)
Based

>>16653619
>The definition of proof is sufficient proof.

>>16699290
What "God" is really all about:

>And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

>And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What life is really all about:

Aho Mitakuye Oyasin... All my relations. I honor you in this circle of life with me today. I am grateful for this opportunity to acknowledge you in this prayer...

To the Stars, for the ultimate gift of life, I thank you.

To the mineral nation that has built and maintained my bones and all foundations of life experience, I thank you.

To the plant nation that sustains my organs and body and gives me healing herbs for sickness, I thank you.

To the animal nation that feeds me from your own flesh and offers your loyal companionship in this walk of life, I thank you.

To the human nation that shares my path as a soul upon the sacred wheel of Earthly life, I thank you.

To the Story nation that guides me invisibly through the ups and downs of life and for carrying the torch of light through the Ages. I thank you.

To the Four Winds of Change and Growth, I thank you.

You are all my relations, my relatives, without whom I would not live. We are in the circle of life together, co-existing, co-dependent, co-creating our destiny. One, not more important than the other. One nation evolving from the other and yet each dependent upon the one above and the one below. All of us a part of the Great Mystery.

Thank you for this Life.

>>16695376
I'm a chronically Outside and completely in love with nature. That's why I'm an atheist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnT8vJ3_cSc

>>16696325
>I guarantee you say shit like “it’s not magic”, at one point or another, anyway.

Not who you replied to, but I'm an atheist.
The history of the universe demonstrates a universal trend towards "increasing complexity," meaning it continually expands the diversity of its possible interactions and thus creative freedom.
The universe grasps beyond its immediate conditions towards novel possibilities.
Life grasps beyond its immediate conditions towards the possibility of sustenance.
Consciousness grasps beyond its immediate conditions of knowledge and experience towards The Unknown.
Creativity is intrinsic to existence by necessity. Otherwise there'd be no time, and thus no existence. Time isn't a "dimension" everything "travels in" but the creative advance of the universe.

>>16653554 (OP)
The idea that if we can't poke at something then it doesn't exist is dangerous logic.

>>16711026
define poke

>>16711826
*pokes you*

>>16713179
Touché.

>>16695376
Atheists will say 'fuck u god isnt real'
Not sure about magic though.

>>16714301
“It’s not magic, it’s science!” makes me want to kill myself. It’s like these faggots don’t appreciate what’s around them.

>>16711026
What can't you poke at?

>>16714302
All things being equal perhaps you ought to kill yourself then.

>>16714302
It sounds like you don't appreciate the faggots around you.

>>16714303
God’s asshole is impenetrable.

>>16653564
>if(x == true):
>print("faggot").
This is how you check if "x" is true.

>>16710261
>Consciousness grasps beyond its immediate conditions of knowledge and experience towards The Unknown.
How do you know that you don't just have a delusion of consciousness?
How do you know that the matter making you up is consciousness and not just tricking itself?
How would you have any actions if it's all just particles or waves following laws of interaction?

>>16653554 (OP)
What do you think of forums like LessWrong with "rationalists" writings? are they fun? I saw a sillicon valley high income slut say she browses them for fun but they seem pretentious and misguided to me.

>>16653554 (OP)
lol

>>16653554 (OP)
i can't exactly "prove it" because of the duhem quine problem, you fucking prick

>>16716886
>duhem quine problem

Shut the fuck up

>>16653554 (OP)
use case?

>>16653720
DMT machine elves are real interdimensional aliens and they have always been here

>>16653554 (OP)
>my board
You know what anon? Just for this I'm going to start making assertions with no evidence

>>16695400
Feeling awe at the ineffable beauty of nature is not the same as magic being real

>>16717428
>Feeling awe at the ineffable beauty of nature is not the same as magic being real
Magic is the chemistry in the brain that leads up to "wow it's like magic", you numbskull. Whether something is seen as magic is an opinion. That "awe at the ineffable beauty of nature" is what led up to religion. The ancients looking up to the stars in the night sky and seeing them as gods.

I can "prove" anything, like other sophists. Am I welcome?

>>16717428
“It’s not magic, it’s X” is just disingenuous. Magic is a feeling. But it’s also the phenomena to reinforce it.

“Magic isn’t real” is about as useful as saying cold isn’t real, or darkness isn’t real, or holes aren’t real, etc.

>>16653554 (OP)
>Here's modern magic

>thinking gravity isn’t magic
Okay
Go on
Explain

>>16719578
>I can't explain it
>its magic

Jesus Christ.

>>16715119
pwease don't ignore my message :S makes me sad and queasy

>>16715119
>>16719599
What the fuck does a rationalist forum got to do with proving a claim? Attacking the person than the idea.

>>16719593
“Noooo it’s not magic it’s nature noooo-“

>>16719603
It's literally what this thread is about

>>16719623
It's not what this thread is about.

>>16719633
can you prove that?

>>16719638
Yes.

>>16653554 (OP)
There are inherent truths to this world that we do not have proof of. We can spend time to learn about them or develop the tools to identify and measure them. Until then, we are allowed to discuss the mechanisms of a concept while attempting to truly understand the concept.
>noooo you can't talk about consciousness because we don't know the exact amount of neurons it would take for a person to come into being to identify themself as conscious
It's self-evident, I ain't gotta explain shit.

>>16720134
>generalization
>straw man
>assumption

Yawn

Magic is everywhere and scientists can only cope.

>>16653554 (OP)
vro we moved to critical rationalism like van hundert years ago

>>16721199
Sad!

It’s science, I ain’t gotta explain shit.

Eureka, dammit!

>>16722780
Elementary, my dear nigga!

“No magic doesn’t exist”
“But we still can’t explain gravity tho”
“Shut the fuck up”
“No”

>>16723695
>Magic exists because I don't know how gravity works

Jesus.

>>16719639
>doesn't

I think magic is a really interesting concept or word because its very definition is something done without explanation. It's really more of a psychological trick than a real word, because what you're actually doing is saying you don't understand something, yet at the same time you're saying you explained it. It's the same way people sometimes use the word "God", or even "science".

I can't think of another word with that level of fallacious thinking built into the core of its meaning.

>>16723725
Pretty convenient way of explaining away everything even remotely interesting about our universe without putting any real effort into it.

>>16653554 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBp0Ozb7t1g
You make me remember this gem

Who the fuck is a board? How is that scientific?

>>16723725
With "science" it's like
>I know this isn't a real explanation but I'm still gonna pretend I said something useful.
>"How do computers work?"
>"Science"

With "magic" it's like
>That's just how it is, must be something supernatural

With "God" it's like
>This is the true explanation, if you dare question it I'm gonna fucking kill you

>>16693012
wtf aliens

>>16724915
That’s just a black box. Even aliens (God) are black boxes.

>>16725903
More like cave dwelling demons

i don't remember shit because 94% of the lecture was Appleman
stop going to office hours cunt

>>16693012
Stop hating your secret alien neighbours fag

>>16653554 (OP)
This would literally imply in the removal of all scientific posts from this board, you ignorant absolute retard.

>>16726032
I don't smoke but I did use bundles of sticks from a bed of moss to plan how I would build my hut against a tree couple of times. Stop eating people you damn Nephilim, follower of The Cult of Canaan. Secret societal worshipper of Remphan and Dagon. You kiss your grandmother with that mouth? The audacity! Too much black magic resonating from your arse. Caves of Qud teaches to avoid cave systems altogether.

>>16653566
>>16653554 (OP)
Let me guess, you're atheists and are incapable of comprehending the axiomatic underpinnings of all science are just another structure of belief.
>>16653568
>Schizo posting
how's the weather in Tel Aviv?

>>16653554 (OP)
It was magical at the time before any scientific discoveries or a given 'Latin' name. For those with a keen mental acuity will truly, comprehensively understand its profound nature.

>>16653564
>nobody:
>this poster: hurr durr truth muh truth you must care about truth
we are talking about proving shit, not about truth.

>>16653554 (OP)
>My board
Like your ass pays the bills, lmao, fuck off.

Magic is everywhere.

“Gravity is borderline magic”
“Noooo shut up”
“Cope”

>>16727562

See
>>16723699
>>16719593

>>16727708
If you don't see nature or science as a magical field then you don't truly love or appreciate or value nature or science do you?

Lexiconically, the word 'please' is magical. For example: "Please insult me harder.", would most definitely be granted onto that request.

>>16723699
You don't know how gravity works either.

>>16729889
Saying the n-word is a curse because it drives people insane, like a mental assault. “Roll for Sanity loss”, as /tg/ puts it. There’s a reason why a spell is called a spell. Why magic is associated with words and speech. Why charisma is the thing that creates cults. Etc.

>>16729917
I've heard and read such cases where if somebody would speak of atrocities or encouragement, not only said outwardly but affecting oneself inwardly. Could in essense, hurt or heal the state of self. The 'spellings' of that spell, avidly clever indeed.

>>16726580
Nobody would care about proving shit if it don't turn out to be true.

>>16730258
Yes they would? I can prove it, because what'st rue today and what's true tomorrow might not be the same thing.
It's not raining today, for example, that is true. But if it were to rain tomorrow... do you see where I'm going?

>>16729903
It's pretty funny watching the Einstein Cultists pretend dark matter and dark energy are real while pretending Standard model is a unified theory of physics.

But YOU believe in magic... lol, it's fucking priceless.

>>16730537
What I see is you admitting the value of proof been entirely based on predictions turning out to be true, even if for just a temporary duration.
In another word, if it isn't true today and isn't true tomorrow, then is whatever you proved worth anything?

>>16730689
>dark matter/energy
Don't have to go that far; they don't even actually understand how it works on Earth.
Science models reproducible patterns. The models can predict how things move in relation to mass based on repeated observation, but they actually have no idea why do things move in relation to mass in such way, i.e. how "gravity" works, and ultimately what it can or cannot do.
This applies to everything in science. It's ultimately a discipline of divination.

>>16653554 (OP)
Lolwut

>>16653554 (OP)
It's undoubtedly magnificent

>>16654671

>>16653554 (OP)
Fuck off ya wanker, ya cunt.

>>16653564
I don't need to if I define truth as something that has a proof.

>>16653554 (OP)
>>16659261
>>16687097
>>16730765

If only you knew the magnificence of 3, 6, and 9 then you would have the key to the universe.
- Nikola Tesla