You should have gone for the head edition

Previous Heresy:
>>96029059

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
What's the worst possible interpretation of your legion trait for 3.0?

I hope the Word Bearers get a cool legion trait!

>>96034789 (OP)
>TQ
I hope Ultras don't get a rule that cares if I fail a cool or something. The Space Wolves went from cool to boring, and the World Eaters went from good to bad.

I'm worried that they will intentionally make the legion basic rules bland or boring to force people to have to buy the legion specific units to feel special.

>>96034789 (OP)
>TQ
Alpha legion count as 2" further away for volley attacks only

>>96034789 (OP)
worst possible version of Iron Warriors or Imp Fists: "+1 strength when attacking buildings"
Yes, GW has used that as a legion trait in the past.
Yes, buildings, not vehicles. The things that are never on the battlefield.

>>96034789 (OP)
Thousand Sons get +1 to their willpower stat until someone fails a check.

>>96034879
Didnt your opponent also make it so you had to play an extra turn or something as well, so they could force you to keep playing.

>>96034851
>worst possible alpha legion trait
Operatives may choose to use Leadership for Cool tests. Operatives may choose to use Cool for Leadership tests.
Your average squad has cool 8 and leadership 8 with a sergeant.

>>96034789 (OP)
>TQ
As bad as the IF trait was in 2.0 I hope they don't turn it into something worse like giving all bolt and auto weapons critical hits (6+) or something retarded like that

>worst possible EC trait
Prideful: all EC characters have the 'Champion' trait and must issue or accept all challenges possible.

>>96034895
Yes, I think it was called To The Bitter End. Hilarious.

I hear something about Primarchs each having a new ability and Perty's being to allow a nearby unit to shoot into his close combat challenge. That sounds just like him

>>96034992
it sounds shit. They must be within 12" and perty has to allow the enemy to beat on him without defending himself or swinging his massive hammer even once.

Perty basically can't ever use it unless he's adding like 200 points to his cost to bring a big shooty squad following 10" behind him everywhere, and the enemy is simply going to shoot the cheerleader-guns squad to death before they ever challenge perty to a fight, then he has zero trap cards.

>>96034789 (OP)
RG infantry can deploy last, but not infiltrate

I did Kopaka's freehand. Post models.

>>96034967
>critical hits (6+)
If IF and UM get a +1BS instead of +1 to hit, with the new chart they'd be getting critical hits on anything with base BS 5 as well. It could be pretty cancerous depending on the stats of some weapons

I was gonna try to think up a bad trait for salamanders, but you really don't need to change it.

>>96034967
Bolters have 2 shots now, plus Fury of the Legion, giving 60 chances at autowound AP2.

Although you're a Fistling, so that probably sounds like a downgrade to you

>>96034823
>word bearers
Reroll the chance for daemons to be summoned succesfully.
>monkey paw
Daemons given garbage statlines so they're just weaker than space marines

Monday night and time again for OC heresy art dump to mark another week of classes on the books. Dropbox link to a compilation of all the legion pauldron art I did last year that was posted in batches before.
>Part 51: anon gets slightly more organized Edition
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r1w5rrpuhkhf83g37tal9/HH-legions.pdf?rlkey=sp2ped0rosoclt3csy3kzavgw&st=ufp457qf&dl=0

>>96035055
>World eaters & Space Wolves relaxing in the corner

>>96035055
Yeah same for word bearers I'm pretty sure literally anything that isn't nothing or pure downside would just be better than the 2.0 trait, even just a simple +1 leadership or cool.

>>96035014
Oh, that does not sound very good. I guess if you have him walking up alongside a sat dreadnaught or something, it could be almost halfway decent?

>>96034789 (OP)
>worst possible interpretation
Prosperine Arcana is a willpower check to add +1 to a certain stat once per game per unit. Can't mix arcanas in units.

>>96035076
space wolves are lucky. +2" to their charges is so much better than it could've been. You could've gotten something like
>+1 strength to volley fire only when you are charging
And then your pistols kill enough enemies that the charges always fail.
Maybe that can be the Sons of Horus failtrait.

>>96035054
+1BS

Also gives you 4+ Snapshots

>>96035056
>autowound AP2
no, critical hits is autowound, +1D
which, thinking about it again wouldn't even do anything against units with 1W and T4. So I can see them doing that
And the kind of thing that has multiple wounds or is hard to wound is probably not something you want to be shooting at with bold and auto weapons
It'd just be kind of a stupid rule that doesn't really fit and only gives you benefits against units that you shouldn't have benefits against, so considering what they've done to WE it could very well happen

>>96035092
Perty would be better rolling to go first then any shooting that could go potentially second. Ironically it may be best against other Primarchs with massed low damage fire since Primarchs will have massive damage reduction.

>>96035082
The worst part is knowing that seeing the World Eaters trait you could have something like what people memed about of "Dark Brethren is the Legion Trait", but I know damn well we're just getting +1 leadership and +1 to combat res because loyalist bias.

>White Scars
+2 inches moved during Disengage and Fall Back moves

>>96035105
that sure would be cancer
I can see it being a thing

Worst possible Night Lords trait
Fear(X) applies within 16" not within 12" of a Night Lords model.

>>96035123
>So I can see them doing that

I should get out while I can

>rule

Yeah, my bad. But to your point, Shred is also +1D, so yawn against other marines. Yyyyyayyyy?

>>96035162
alternative-
Enemy may not shoot a Night Lords from more than 24" away on turn 1. No legion trait for the rest of the game. (see guys it's fine we removed Night Battles?)

>>96035164
yea I don't know why they needed to have 2 +1D rules. Unless shred is on completely different weapons it's not going to be useful outside of LC terminators. If LC do have it, they are probably going to be the autopic weapon this edition cuz why the fuck would you bother with anything else?

>>96035190
>enemy

Neither of you

>>96035196
....the mighty new base Str LC?

>>96035196
Critical hit is replacement for murderous strike and rending in one fell swoop, its what's gonna be the special rule on all those "oooh tippy top tier weapon" stuff like terranic greatswords and paragon blades and thunder hammers

>>96035055
-1 to wound from most special weapons and +1S to flame weapons is not that bad of a rule...
It might even include lass weapons this edition since the saturnine special rule does that now
If it stack it'd make them pretty resilient

>>96034823
I hope it's not some stupid gimmick involving Cool checks...

>>96035251
I hope the Word Bearers get a Cool legion trait!

>>96035229
Do you need more than S4 when a third of your hits are ap2 auto-wound D2?
I'm assuming they still get extra attacks. Nothing else seems to get them and that's a huge buff compared to other stuff

>>96034823
to honor your glorious martyrdom, Word Bearer characters all gain Expendable(1) - one less victory point when taken out

>>96035283
Shred on LCs surely, not Crits..?

>>96035055
-1 to wound on plasma and melta is actually pretty good now that ID is gone
>>96035296
yea right, I'm mixing them up

>>96035309
>"Hey let's change EVERYTHING you just fucking memorized, you absolute fucking clown shoe

cant wait for dual lightning claws to not give at least an extra attack given that 2 CCWs giving +1 attack is no longer a thing

>>96035326
Why did GW feel compelled to change the name of a bunch of rules for no reason, or use the name for a completely different thing?

>>96035333
I bet it's +1 attack total for a pair of claws now

Thousand Sons Trait:
+1 to willpower stats until you fail one. +1wound from Perils

Thousand Sons Gambit:
Instead of attacking you can target the opponent with a psychic power

Thousand Sons Reaction:
When you fail your FIRST willpower check you can instead treat it as a failed cool check.

>>96035333
Basic despoilers/assault squads are going to be so fucking ass with 1 attack on the charge. And even if you win combat you cant sweep anymore, so combat is guaranteed to last for days.
What were they thinking?

>>96035326
I fucking hate when they change the rules while reusing names

>>96035343
They failed the intelligence test and were overcome with retardation

>>96035356
I still think we are missing rules
1A melee troops sounds incredibly retarded. There's literally no point in charging. You are gonna do more damage with the volley fire

>>96035389
>volleyfire
>kill 2 dudes
>enemy volley fires back and kills 4
>fail charge because of the 2 kills

Such is life

>>96035389
I would've imagined they were sneaking in extra attacks on melee weapons themselves. But that's unlikely with Power Sword being this fucking shit "base initiative, attacks none extra, strength none extra, AP3, Breaching(6+)"

If that's how shit a power sword is, they can't be giving chainswords or chainaxes 2-3 attacks and any other bonuses, or a basic khorne chainaxe would do more than a literal Power Sword.

>>96035356
>>96035389
Melee weapons can modify attacks now. We know the Power weapons don't but I bet that chainweapons are going to have +1 attack be their gimmick.

Meaning chainswords give you 2 swings per goon instead of 1.

>>96035421
>But that's unlikely with Power Sword being this fucking shit "base initiative, attacks none extra, strength none extra, AP3, Breaching(6+)"
To be fair I wouldn't trust the wardom intern if my life depended on it

>>96035424
unlikely. As then a basic chainsword getting twice as many attacks would kill more terminators than a Power Sword.

>>96035356
>>96035421
The centurion attacks went up for seemingly no reason. It could also be that melee units just have 2A base in general
There's still some hope

>>96035437
What makes you think that is unlikely? GW already did that in 40k.

>>96035446
This would also make a bit of sense as to why they separated veterans into melee and ranged. There's not that many units that can choose between a ranged loadout and pistol+melee weapon, is there?

Why isn’t there more stories about traitors from the loyalist legions?

>>96035465
Blame the black library.

>>96035446
God I hope veletaris get 2 attacks, or they are fucked.

when will gw add XENOS to hh to give us the full oldhammer experience

>>96035462
Your retardation is showing again.
Assault intercessor, chainsword 4 attacks, 3+ S4 AP-1 Dmg1. Power weapon 4 attacks, 3+ S5 AP-2 Dmg2. The power weapon is never worse than the chainsword and never has less attacks.
It's only the Power Fist which has 3 attacks instead of 4 attacks, but it is S8 AP-2 Dmg2 so it's literally always better than the basic chainsword as are all weapon upgrades in 40k.

Why the fuck have the libers not been leaked yet? What the fuck?

>>96034789 (OP)
DA: After finishing deploying a Unit during your Deploy Unit step by placing the Final Model of the Unit currently being Deployed but before Deploying any Further Units, declare a keyword from the List below for each MODEL in the unit. All MODELS in the Same Unit must have the same keyword.

A model may select to have one of the Following Keywords: Deathwing, Dreadwing, Stormwing, Firewing, Ironwing, Ravenwing. Only choose One Keyword for each Model. No Model in a single Unit may have a Different Keyword from Any Other Model in the Unit. No model may have more than one Keyword.

Designer's note: Rather than choosing a keyword per model, you may choose a keyword for the entire unit, but all models in the unit must have the same keyword.

Playtester's commentary: Keywords offer a lot of customization to your Dark Angels units, allowing you to mix and match abilities to maximize your army's power! It's a great ability without being overpowered at all!

Player's observation: The keywords don't fucking do anything.

>>96035505
all the rules so far have been trash and the libers are the last hope of unfucking it. GW is choosing to leave the plastic addiction suckers with hope their army might be okay until they get those fat presales on the $250+ starter sets next week. They're fine with you being left in disappointment but only after they have your money in hand. At that point you'll already be hundreds into Horus Heresy spending so you'll be more likely to try to buy your way out of it by starting a new army instead of quitting.

>>96035465
all the spare time in the loyalist books was used up by DEI writers inserting female spaceship captains, female saints, female knight commanders, female titan commanders, female army station officers, female frontline soldiers, female remembrancers, female advisors to the khan, female psykers and so on...
Between that, the primarch chunks and the space marine chunks, there was no room to develop traitor-loyalists.

>>96034895
To be fair if TS keep their psycher characters and it sounded like they have their arcana they've already improved a lot
Perils is a lot rarer, tho it is more punishing

>>96035504
In tenth edition and on assault intercessors you are correct.
Look at regular intercessors or any other unit in the loyalist range that can choose between a power weapon and a chainsword, you will see that chainswords get +1 attack and powerswords get better AP.
Assault intercessors both with and without jetpacks work differently because the whole squad comes with chainswords base and GW didn't bother with a "sarge chainsword" profile for people who wouldn't upgrade.

The 40k AP system means power weapons will always be better than chain weapons in that system but GW generally seems to view chainswords as a "many attack" weapon.
They're absolutely retarded enough to import that design philosophy directly into HH without considering the vastly different context.

>>96035537
B A S E D

>>96035537
Jokes on them. My army can't get worse.

>>96034789 (OP)
>What's the worst possible interpretation of your legion trait for 3.0?
+1A but it's conditional on failing a Ld check. But only Ld; Coolness tests are unaffected.

>>96035625
Wow anon how did you come up with something that bad!

The WE trait they previewed looks like shit, but I haven't gone full doomer yet. Maybe the alternate legion trait they mentioned will be better. Either way I'm still deploying 200 infantry and running them straight at you, whenever I manage to finish painting them.

>>96035069
Noice. Thanks anon

>>96035421
>attacks none extra
I think this point more towards melee units having more than 1A base

>>96035644
>yet
Good of you to leave room to be devastated.

Did we get the rules for cover saves sorted out?

>>96035644
>The other trait is the exact same but only when you pass the Ld test

>>96034789 (OP)
>What's the worst possible interpretation of your legion trait for 3.0?
+1" movement, doesn't actually waterfall into affecting thresholds for charging.
It's just +1" movement.

>>96035644
Get out of my heeaaaad

>>96035657
apparently you only get 4+ cover save if you are in area terrain where you can't draw LoS from?
But somehow the enemy can still hit you?

>>96035607
>My army can't get worse.
You underestimate his power.

>>96035134
20 marines doing FotL would do a single unsaved wound on a T6 2+ save Primarch. Perty should've swung.
3.7 from S8 AP3 D2 Tyrants

>>96035693
5.5 wounds from 10 melta guns within 6"

>>96035693
>>96035717
Primarchs probably have Eternal Warrior (3) or better

>>96035717
10 dmg3 melta guns is not "massed low damage fire" so you lost to his argument there immediately. And nobody on the planet is challenging perturabo with 10 meltaguns standing right behind him. They'd simply accept it with their 1 wound champion then have their primarch buttfuck the entire rest of perturabo's unit. Or the default 100% of times people see 10 meltaguns walking behind perty, they'd have gunned them all dead before charging perty and challenging him and smashing him to paste.

>>96035135
+1 to combat res was bad? :(
It would've been nice that Word Bearers Ld could not be lowered below Ld7, instead of Ld6
As in, it's less than armywide Stubborn, but regardless of whatever they face, they remain as resolute as the day each of them became a battle brother.

>>96035717
How are you going to have Perty in a challenge with another primarch AND have 10 unengaged melta gun dudes within 6"
Unless they're literally alone together, then it's just not happening

>>96035014
it's done as Snap Shots which uses a different roll table now instead of being 6+

so your BS4 tacticals are still hitting on 5+ regardless and Perty's opponent gets presumably 20 hits, 10W and 1-2 unsaved W just from those 60 shots

but your melta lads in the same position would be 1/7 each to just murder the bitch even with a 4++, and Perty is presumably not prevented from fighting the rest of the unit in the same Assault phase, without his attacks being soaked up by a sacrificial champion or his characteristics being halved by Disgraced

should favour a more aggressive, assault-oriented playstyle for IW

>>96035750
>the Damage Characteristic

each melta W is really 3W-6W

>>96035741
yeah, the word bearer trait was dogshit. WB were just carried by Brutal being overpowered on Lorgar's hammer. Gal Vorbak, super-dreadnought and bloodthirster summons being overpowered. And no GetsHot on their plasma weapons.

The trait itself was among the worst. If Lorgar's weapon had been dogshit like alpharius spear and Gal Vorbak had sucked balls like the Red Butcher terminators, then WB would've been bottom of the barrel.

>>96035754
Perturabo is absolutely prevented from attacking any of the unit during the phase he uses it. It's a Challenge Gambit, he's already been removed from the game until the challenge phase finishes.

>40k 10E: a thousand rerolls
>3.0: no rerolls
2.0 had some rerolls. Not as excessive as 10th edition. It was okay

>>96035343
To sell a new edition. I kid you not. New edition is a boost in sales. The bigger than change touted as "nostalgic" or 'improved" the better. We are not the target audience.

>>96035446
>The centurion attacks went up for seemingly no reason
Centurions getting +1A on their stats makes 1A Despoilers seem all the more lost. Guess talking about it is pointless until we get the libers

>>96035537
The Libers are already printed, right?

>>96035783
They call hype a new edition without an 85% overhaul of the systems tho, so I don't think you've addressed the argument

>>96035775
I've literally never heard anyone complain about rerolls in HH before. Idk why they had to remove them. They could at least have made Shred +1 to wound, instead they make it +1D like that's not really fucking situational and probably useless most of the time...

>>96035389
I suspect anything that got a bonus attack from a pistol just has it baked into a profile.

>>96035644
>Maybe the alternate legion trait they mentioned will be better
If WE trait #1 is bad, and trait #2 is good, then you don't have 2 traits. You have one trait (the good one), and niche trash you don't take

>>96035740
If the enemy needs to kill every dangerous shooting unit within 12" of perty before they can fight him then the breaker works fine as a threat to force an enemy response.

You can use the threat of the breaker to insulate Perturabo from early charges launched by enemy primarchs, something you don't have to worry about with other lads, who gives a shit if Guilliman has ten lascannons stood behind him after all.

Besides, its pretty funny conceptually and entirely in character for Perturabo.

>>96035785
>makes 1A Despoilers seem all the more lost
It makes it a lot more likely that despoilers are 2A base imo

>>96035804
yea, that's the more likely explanation. There's not that many units that can choose between 2 melee weapons or a ranged weapon to begin with. Veterans come to mind but they are separating them into melee and ranged variants to begin with

>>96035812
Just shut up already, you're a retard who couldn't even read the rule and thought you get to swing your hammer and shoot. You don't know a fucking thing about how it works.

>>96035675
>But somehow the enemy can still hit you?
BARRAGE ON BARRAGE ACTION!! (Direct-fire units need not apply)

>>96035828
I'm not the retard you were arguing with anon. I'm a different breed of retard entirely.

>>96035797
It needs to be different enough, that is implied. Its why GW does reset editions. Its part of their cycle. I dont make the calls at GW.

>>96035761
What if they had tackled +1Ld on top of +1 to Combat Res and "can only drop to Ld7"?

>>96035840
Okay, you're a retard who thinks a 500 point primarch is footslogging with 10meltaguns 6" from hsi left and 10 meltaguns footslogging 6" from his right and that 800 points of very slow exposed, fat, vulnerable 3+ armor save units is somehow a "scary melee threat" and the enemy isn't simply laughing at you and declaring he's just shooting your fragile meltaguns which are not scary beyond 6".
Yeah, you're a different breed of retard alright.

>>96035846
He just wants the rule to not suck, anon. It is bad, and that's sad. I wonder if there could be a way to make it good?
A 10 multimelta bodyguard doing snapshots at half range could indeed cause 8+ wounds to a Primarch...but that's just an unwieldy, uncommon scenario.
Maybe The Breaker could be changed to be "Perturabo gains no Outside Support and goes last on the Strike step, but HE & HIS unit can snapfire their non-Blast guns at the challenger"?
Would that be too much or too little?

>>96035846
*and also those 20 meltaguns aren't allowed to shoot at all if the charge is declared on Perty's uni t instead of their unit, and no overwatching. And when the enemy declares he's letting a random unit commander accept Perturabo's challenge, the if Perty uses the gambit on them, Perty loses all his attacks, the 10 meltaguns kill 1 regular unit champ, the other 10 meltaguns can't shoot at all, then Rogal Dorn or whoever is in the unit gets to absolutely massacre all of Perty's bodyguards while the meltas arent allowed to shoot Rogal at all. Amazingly effective use of 20 meltaguns to inflict 1 wound in a turn while also preventing Perturabo from being able to swing his hammer even once that turn.

>>96034823
That's really well done. Good job anon.

>>96035812
The fact that they have to be unengaged is what puts a damper on it

>>96035797
this edition is making people throw Hundreds of Dollars of books in the garbage bin. GW executives believe the only way customers will be stupid enough to do that and then buy new books is if the rules are so incompatible that people won't be able to create conversion-charts to keep using the old books or unit stats in the new core rules.

>>96035887
>this edition is making people throw Hundreds of Dollars of books in the garbage bin.
That's what 2.0 did too

>>96035887
>GW executives believe

Yeah, ok, you got me there

>>96035904
>this edition is making people throw Hundreds of Dollars of books in the garbage bin.
>Again

>>96035885
it's the unrealistically short range 12" (bad), the needing the 2nd unit to be unengaged (bad), perturabo losing all his attacks (bad), having the "trap" be automatically telegraphed long ahead of time so it literally can never be a surprise (bad), making the babysitting units entirely useless if the enemy doesn't accept the challenge with their primarch (bad), requiring the babysitting units to be undamaged ahead of time (bad)

The idea of IW breaking rules is not bad in itself. The problem is GW wrote it neutered so Perturabo is incredibly polite and is only allowed the most delicate situational shooting requirements ever and he'll politely sip tea instead of helping fight (while Perturabo costs your army like 500 points and isnt even swinging his weapon.)

It could have been any one unit within 24" gets to shoot. Or it could have been 12" range but Perturabo gets to chooses to swing his hammer against either the challenger or the unit outside of the challenge. Or they can choose to shoot even while engaged (sacrificing their lives to protect the primarch.) Or it could have allowed Perty to swing and also use one template weapon against the melee (like firing a basilisk artillery onto the furball because Perty's armor could survive it while the 3+ armor save Despoilers won't survive.)

But instead we got a version where the best situation is basically to never use it at all. And if Perturabo and a 800 point bubble of 6" meltaguns tries to footslog down one flank, the enemy can just burst into laughter and swing his army out of melta range (leaving perturabo's expensive deathstar doing literally no damage to any tanks or any of the HSS squads blasting them from 36" away)

>>96035924
>contemptor with a castraferrum style lascannon arm
Wish more such things would exist.

>>96035944
that looks absolutely ass. He can't even blame it on some bullshit like "he remembers his physical body". Terminators already fire missile racks on their shoulders, the dreadnought should have a dreadnought-sized Cyclone Missile rack on its back, leaving its right arm free to rip and tear.

>>96035657
Heavy cover makes it impossible to be shot or charged (you also cant shot or charge) other than barrage attacks.

So if your enemy has scorpius's (scorpii?) In heavy civer and you have no barrage of your own, you literally can't do anything to them.

>>96035966
yeah, RAW you literally can't touch them in base contact and you can't charge even 0.1" away. There are some tiny loopholes like if the enemy had a 2nd unit right outside the 'smoke cloud' and you were the exact distance where you could only touch them in a charge by also ending in base contact with the smoke enemy, then it's allowed, but in 99.9% of the time the unit in 'smoke' is entirely invincible except to indirect.

>>96035446
They buffed centurions because 3.0 is hero hammer. Cast aside your hope anon, your 20 man despoiler squad is just ablaitive wounds for your MainCharacter as they activate their swooping dung beetle gambit.

>>96035846
I don't think I suggested using that ability offensively? Please don't put words in my mouth.

I also didn't mention meltaguns either. What I said was that the rule forces enemy duelists wanting to jump Perturabo to wait until every dangerous direct fire ranged weapon within 12" of perturabo is dead, including not just infantry but also every vehicle or dreadnought without the blast tag too because this rule >>96035134 never actually mentions unit types, just iron warriors not currently locked in melee.

The gambit basically let's any non blast ranged weapon within 12" of pert become a sniper rifle for a turn. If your only counter to that is "just kill every powerful shooting unit within 12 inches of the primarch of a legion renowned for good shooting first" then you need to understand thats literally just how you fight Iron Warriors. You kill their guns before their guns kill you.

Its not as if its any great burden for the IW to spend shitloads of points on guns senpai. They were never going to bring anything else anyway.

>>96035940
I have a distinct feeling the intention is for Perty to stand next to a big tank, a fellblade could fuck things up
Not sure if it could really fuck up something better than Perty, but if Perty is alone in a challenge against an enemy unit and this lets him drop pie plates on them, sure I guess

>post after post on Perturabo' Challenge Gambit

Kill me

>>96036030
the problem is if perty just stands next to some big tank, the enemy just sits 30" away and guns down the tank or guns down Perty. Either way you're wasting 500 points having Perty on escort duty in the backfield. And you can't drive forward HSS or tanks to follow perty into melee, as HSS damage drops hard if they have to keep moving. And if they just sit stationary, perturabo is a deadweight.

>>96036030
Can't use blast weapons, stand him next to ancient Roasticus the Leviathan dreadnought and shoot with 2 Cyclonic melta lances instead.

>>96036039
>IW players bitterly complaining
>WE players angrily doomposting
FLUFFY

>>96036051
Perturabo currently has battlesmith 2+, an armywide buff and S6 AP3 Twin linked shredding pinning shooting at 30" range.

Depending on where his support rules end up in the new edition having him March up with dreadnoughts or tanks might not be a terrible use of his time.

>>96036096
Can't wait until people realize that almost everything from 2.0 has been nerfed in some way, so everyone will be doomposting!

>>96036107
>almost everything from 2.0 has been nerfed in some way
Maybe you should've run 20-man tactical blobs as The Emperor intended

>>96036051
Why assume he's hanging back with the tank when the tank can easily keep up with him and his domitars?

He crashes into a middle objective and can now shoot anywhere on the board in LoS

Most of the reason you take a primarch is for their army rules anyway, which are always in play

>>96036107
>almost everything from 2.0 has been nerfed
You mean aside from heavy weapons, snap shots, tanks, blast weapons, flamers, meltaguns, basic bolters, invulnerable saves, multi wound models and psychic powers?

>>96035134
oh holy shit, it's only snap shots?? Why the fuck were they worried it would be overpowered otherwise.

>>96036107
>the legions get nerfed to shit.
>admech are a horde army now.
>knights can get pinned and suppressed.
>talons don't even have a liber until their girlstodes release happens next year.

Seems like its an auxilia edition to me.

>>96036142
Snapshots still hit on 5s. BS5 units like veterans hit on 4s

>>96036142
Snapshots are now different depending on BS.

BS4 means you snapshot on a 5+

>>96036159
>>96036165
Oh okay, thanks anons. I am behind on the rules leaks.

Bros I'm starting to open new recruit on reflex now. I need those libers man.

>>96036182
Same.

>>96036156
A Soldier's War, as it always should have been.

>>96036197
As a marine player, I will absolutely accept all these nerfs if Aux are the baseline

>>96034789 (OP)
>TQ

Semi-related, but I'm half-expecting something like Rewards of Treachery being rewritten to not steal units proper. Seeing the blog posts hint at unique detachments for the legions, it could be just stealing those instead.

>>96036156
>knights can get pinned and suppressed
The fuck can wound them that causes statuses? This implies that many things gain statuses and will be difficult to avoid spamming.

>>96036304
glancing hits

>>96036304
Glacing hits cause status effects because giving knights a cool and leadership value was too difficult.
So an autocannon round can ping off the chestpiece and rivet a knight in place until it rolls a 6 to fix it. So an HSS squad of autocannons can stunlock a knight in place for the entire game EZ.
What the fuck, man.

>>96036492
That can't be real who tested-
>2.0 deepstrike was such a massive fuck up all edition
Fuck it's real

>>96036492
That is lies and slander anon.

All it takes is a single autocannon to score a lucky hit and immobilise you or disable your main weapon for the entire game. Get it right.

Also cover saves cannot be taken against glances for unknown reasons as well, so gg.

>>96036492
except it'll still have a 4++ or 5++ from the ion shield, and it'll probably have auto-simulacrum options, battlesmiths in other detachments etc

>>96036509
Well yes I forgot about the invuln.

>>96036509
It has to be 4++ to justify why knights only got a 43% increase in HP when most other stuff is getting a 75-100% increase. Which TBF is kind of a big buff considering there's no more side arc and you have to have the majority of your unit in the bsck arc in order to blank the invulnerable and melee weapons are looking to do jackshit vs AV13 now lol

>>96036509
you cannot take saves against glancing hits

>>96036492
To keep the IW theme going, i wonder if Iron Havocs with autocannons will still be the shit

>>96036509
glancing hits ignore all armor saves and all damage mitigation methods of any kind. Penetrating hits don't... for some reason

>>96036564
probably better than ever

>>96036564
they're only good now because IW get +1 strength. IW trait will probably be something else, and we haven't seen autocannon's stats so no reason to believe they'll be good yet.

>>96036563
>>96036565
There's no way that lasts. Either via errata or common house rules. That's so fucked up that an auto cannon is a bigger threat to knights than a lascannon.

Why dont marines have musicians

>>96036492
One knight in your army can be battlesmith (2) and that's almost certainly going to be mandatory

>>96036666
I mean, the rulebook very explicitly wrote it this way, its not just vague wording.

So maybe they change it, but uh, it's GW so don't hold your breath.

>>96036722
Stands of Fate were too, and that got an overhaul. But then again this is 30k. The whiny tournament demographic isn't the marketing pet.

>>96036714
That might be restricted to Mechanicum households though.

>>96036666
quads speaketh and providence is born

>>96035675
well yea, the terrain blocks line of sight if it interrupts any line you would draw to the target, if you can draw a line of sight you can draw line of sight.
Don't tell me you thought a terrain piece just was blanket LoS blocker at infinite height within its footprint?

>>96035966
The charging aspect had to have been overlooked ya? Or is that intended?

>>96036754
Good, Mechanicum Knights are the coolest anyway

>>96036039
>Kill me
Then duel me, so my entourage can shoot you (the gambit doesn't actually need Perturabo to be the one called out to duel).

>>96036107
Wait? People are already complaining, but others say "chill, just wait for the Libers". As if that will make plasma AP2 or something

>>96034841
They'll make you buy the legion specific splat book to feel special.

>>96036881
Well it's clearly intentional to need LOS to charge, it's just not clear if it was actually intended that models in heavy area terrain can't draw line of sight to models in the same area terrain.

Of course there's three easy solutions to fags trying to abuse this: only rule 3 walls or terrain pieces that you can't actually sit in as heavy, do the same common sense fix as above and say models in the same heavy Terrain cam draw line of sight to each other but not out, or if anyone tries to pull this shit and won't accept them being medium terrain then force them to use building rules instead.

>>96036142
I think they are worried the gambit will actually suck, because it trades Perturabo's whole attacks for another unit's snapshots

I saw these AI vids going around and I couldn't resist.
The AI really fucks up the contemptor but it's a mhara Ghal so we'll say it's lore accurate.

>>96036946
Fuck that's actually revolting, makes my skin crawl

>>96036677
They go a cappella

>>96036946
hello robin

>>96036946
Fuck off, slopfaggot, back to your containment thread.

>>96036967
Hey man

>>96036961
Truly Abominable Intelligence

>>96036946
Do you guys think a terminator could really do that? Wreathe out of a power fist's grab because the energy shield protects it from the fist's power field. Then, make a dreadnought's punch miss by pushing its wrist upwards

>>96036925
Enjoy your one squad of various automata while actually cool guys roll up with veletaris in dracosans and sentinels

>>96036986
Cataphractii can't actually raise their hands straight up like that.

>>96037005
Hey if they have a cybernetica one too, I'm in

>>96036986
No, it would take all its strength just lifting its own arms off the ground. The dreadnought would almost certainly crush him if it just put a hand above his head and let its arm gently fall down... but if the dreadnought was actually trying to squish him downward? Obviously the dreadnought would pancake him into a crater in the first second of the match.

That's like asking "can a chihuahua arm wrestle with a human?"

>>96036856
Hey retarded anon. Area Terrain specifically explains how it modifies TLOS.
If your ruins is considered medium area terrain, any line more than 3" long isn't valid for LoS and the model is entirely invisible.
For Heavy area terrain, it automatically blocks 100% of LoS that goes anywhere inside of the Area which is delineated as the piece of area terrain before the battle.
So yeah, you look fucking stupid right now.

>>96037372
Isn't it more like asking if a small greased pig can slip from a human's grip? The grease is the shield generator

>>96036666
Cope harder

>>96037436
the terminator would need shield generators on its feet and the rest of its body and then it could slide away when hit. Instead, it's thousands of pounds of steel gripping the concrete so getting hit above center of mass would simply instantly flip him over his waist and send him slamming onto a crater on his back, unable to stand up then one more swing and he's literal goo inside the suit.

>>96035625
I can't imagine they'd give you a trait that bad, surely.

I think my biggest worry with 3.0 is that it'll become almost mandatory to run, if not a primarch, but named characters.

I like that I can be really happy with a praetor or centurion as my HQ currently, but all the melee stuff feels like it's pointing to "GET THIS GUY FROM THE BOOKS! YOU LIKED THE BLACK LIBRARY SLOP, NOW YOU CAN PLAY WITH YOUR ACTION FIGURES OF THEM!"

I think anons need to stop doomposting about stuff that hasn’t even released yet, especially when we don’t actually have all the rules yet.

>>96037622
we think you should have been thrown out of the hospital window after birth, shill cocksucker

>>96037535
yeah, seems like every single system in-game is a pure downgrade on 2.0 except for challenges... so if it's supposed to somehow redeem things, it'll force everyone to run herohammer and every game will just be won or lost with a single who-strikes-first dice roll which doesn't care who charged or attacked in the rear or outsmarted who, it's just entirely devoid of skill.

>>96037622
At this point i dread to see any more, anon

Hell yeah

>>96036856
yes, when it was that the terrain rules made most sense. Having a skirmish game style LoS system in a game with 100-150 modes per side is stupid.

>>96037672
holy shit is that AVGN sitting behind that saturnine?

>>96037676
TLOS is good in a 10v10 skirmish game, it sucks donkeydick in warhammer games.

>>96036931
I look at my 15 interemptors, and feel sad thinking about how much they cost (in money) and how plasma looks in 3.0. For a second I had hope that maybe the rules are going to be wack only for plasma pistols/plama guns, but it does not look as if it is case. Some stupid noise gun used to break up riots is going to be more effcient at killing people then being covered with substance as hot as the sun. Fun times.

I think GW actualy did convince me to either just buy recasts or kit bash every model, and never by the higher cost GW Original kits. I mean they can't even sell me 4 rhinos, but my local dude can sell me 4 for the cost of half of a GW store bought one.

>>96037654
>every single system in-game is a pure downgrade on 2.0 except for challenges.
Heavy guns and cover got buffed, right? Maybe too buffed, desu. Same for snapshots and flamers.
Damage replacing Brutal is better for T4 and down, and worse for T5 and up. And psychic powers seem like will now be a thing.
>No reward for outmaneuvering
2.0 charging already doesn't care who charged who, anon - it's all Init...
Oh wait, is there +1A from charging this time around?

>Herohammer
Oof big time. Not just the duel minigame; FOC now seems to be which Hero unlocks what Detachment.
Hero Tax

>>96037696
The best money you can ever spend on warhammer is a resin printer, I reckon.
The first unit I printed was siege tyrants, and including fuck ups that I had to reprint and the like it set me back probably $5 dollarydoos for the 5. It's $170 dollarydoos for 5 from James.

>>96037688
Yes. Sometimes I think that GW writes their games not for the game play to be fun on the avarge, but rather for that once in a blue moon in 3.5ed something odd happened and ALL the fun from having/playing the army is suppose to come from that one moment, and the army can be a shit expiriance for decades. Ah and you have to learn to love to paint and build models which we made on purpose harder to build (why does a dreadnought foot or hand has to come in 5-7 or more parts?)

>>96037711
well not in my apartament, but you don't have to convince me. Around there the print farms have been going hot for the last few months. Especialy as GW went on "out of stock" for primarchs, upgrade for dreadnoughts, shoulder pads etc.

Or to not make it too long. If one can, getting a printer is in deed much better then buying GW resin.

>>96037711
resin is really toxic, I think I'd first recommend just getting a non-toxic filament printer and just outsourcing the toxic resin stuff to printfarms or one single friend's house who has a whole room dedicated to ventilation. It's overkill for every single hobbyist to have to make a resin room.

>>96037622
>What's that? We poorly managed customer expectations? That's actually a customer problem and you should just shut the fuck up and pre-order this non-limited availability product before more info comes out!

>A 3d printer is vastly cheaper than GW...
:D
>...but it is so toxic it needs its own, separate room
D:
I just want lil silly british toys bro

>>96037672
Ahh ffs bros I just went from hating them to thinking they're kino

>>96037672
Guys, I'm starting to think a marine could concievably fit inside one of those, no exolimbs needed

>>96037705
Heavy cover removes all LOS for models inside and outside of it, and no tournaments are gonna be allowing any heavy cover with the 3.0 trash rules. Terrain rules are not at all an improvement over any other GW game.

They removed the +1 attack from charging. So World Eaters get 2 less attacks when they charge the enemy and deal the same number of attacks if they stand perfectly still and the enemy charges into them.

The brutal change is a sidegrade, not an improvement. And dmg2-3 weapons are much more common than brutal weapons ever were, plus with the huge reduction in number of attacks (removing +1 attack for charging, removing +1 attack for dual wielding) it's more important than ever to have a big melee weapon that is dmg 2 or dmg 3. Otherwise you're just dealing papercuts.

>>96037745
if his pelvis is shattered into 120 pieces doing the splits and his legs are broken at the knees, sure.

>>96037672
Dunno if its the pose, but that is actually kinda qt3.14

>>96037756
Anon stop lying.
World eaters actually lost 3 attacks on the charge, not 2.
>No legion attack bonus
>No charge bonus
>No two weapon bonus

You'll have your one attack and you'll fucking like it, consumer.

>>96037756
>The brutal change is a sidegrade, not an improvement. And dmg2-3 weapons are much more common than brutal weapons ever were
Nah don't worry anon - Thallax are cheaper now. Please buy more! $$$
It's yikes left and right. I do not know what the Libers will bring. All legions are released at the same time on day one. That should be good.
That should do away with power creep. I am afraid. What if it doesn't?
What if you still get Loyalist favoritism? Then it's not power creep.
Then it is deliberate.

>>96037777
Is there no bonus initiative for charging, at least? What do you gain when charging?

>>96037736
I'll be honest, even with a dedicated room if I let the resin sit for too long without printing anything the smell will start to seep out, and gets me worried.
I'll probably move it out of the house proper at some point, but I don't really like the idea of having it in my garage.

>>96037622
don't you get tired of being wrong?

>>96037788
Nope, you don't strike first when charging, or gain any extra initiative, or any extra attacks. This is the worst edition for charging in the entire 50 year span of games workshop as a company.

Since we were talking about Moritats in the earlier thread, got a question:
Dual Disintegrator pistols, on a White Scar Moritat, with the bits in pic rel as a base. Sound good?

>>96037819
>you don't strike first when charging, or gain any extra initiative, or any extra attacks.
Emperor keep me, I really thought I was missing something. You'd really be better off shooting all day instead?
Even if +1A was a Liber Astartes thing, mortals and mechanicum should still get something when charging

>>96037828
Armed with what? Neither disintegrator pistols (AP3) nor plasma pistols (A1 AP4 Breach 6) are good anymore.

>>96037858
I don't play, I l just love the miniatures.

>>96037819
The rules really are written by an AI and released without any major proof reading kek.

>>96037871
Moritat bolt pistols are belt fed, plasma pistols have those tubes, volkite serpentas have flexible ammo links too.
Maybe coil a spring around the tube, so your disintegrator pistols have a cool unique look?

>>96037896
I just took the chunk masters 5000 bolt pistols from 2ed, removed the mag and replaced them with primaris box mags for their bolters. chunky, big and can be practicaly anything . Archeotech pistols, desinformators.

>buy era of ruin
>think "nice we get a nice little contemplative book about the immediate after effects of the traitor retreat from terra and all the new politicking between the ultramarines and the Legions on terra, and such"
>it's just a continuation of all the "people lost on terra somewhere fighting monsters" boorfest shit from all the siege of terra books

>>96037913
if you didn't check out of SoT after Warhawk that's on you.

>>96037913
>buy

First mistake

>>96037828
Just remember to print it a 115% to get TrueScale

>>96035051
What about Kopaka's Banner?

wait so if sweeling advance doesnt exist anymore, theres basically no reason NOT to take cataphractii over tartaros

>>96037976
Print what?

>>96038005
you would think so, until you look at the unit list and only find a space marine terminator unit. No Tartaros, no cataphract, no indominatus. Maybe the different paterns will get added in those floppy books.

>>96034789 (OP)
>What's the worst possible interpretation of your legion trait for 3.0?
+1 to wound vs units with a status effect on them

>>96037777
>World eaters actually lost 3 attacks on the charge, not 2.
Everyone else also lost the other attacks, WE only lost their 1 special one relative to everyone else.

>>96038055
+1 to wound vs units, when you have a status effect on your unit 0_0

>>96038070
anon if you have a legion that is all about melee, and everyone else, at best, does melee as a bonus, because shoting is king. then legions that weren't much about melee don't lose much, but the one that were about melee lose A LOT.

But no worries all of this will get fixed in a book, coming out in year 2 of 3ed, with a WE "berzerker horde" detachment .

>>96038005
The new rule is probably going to be slow and purposeful, which stops reactions. It might also have movement or I penalties like saturnine armor.

>>96038083
>and everyone else, at best, does melee as a bonus
Your legion trait is no more or less melee oriented than the SW, BA, SoH or EC one.

>>96038095
yeah, but all those legions were maybe one elite unit of melee dudes, and spaming the bejesus of speeders, tanks , HSS etc. WE waves of inducti, despoilers, melee terminators etc. No shoting, no tanks, melee dreadnoughts.

>>96038083
So its a good thing the new legion trait has more utilitarian purposes than just providing a minor buff to melee now that melee is dead, right?
You cant have your basis for the new rules being bad revolve around "WE can only do melee and this rule doesent help that" when the only thing that means "WE can only do melee" (which isnt true) is their legion trait.

>>96038095
Because the other legions still have hope, anon.
Their traits could still be good, or turn out just as shit, they just don't know it yet.

>>96038109
>but all those legions were maybe one elite unit of melee dudes

>SoH
Justaerin
Reavers

>SW
Varangyr
Deathsworn

>BA
Incendio
Sanguinary guard
Dawnbreakers

>EC
Phoenix wardens
Palatine blades

>WE
Rampagers
Red butchers

>>96038115
The WE trait isnt weak by any actual metric. Its just not going to lend itself to running at people and rolling three buckets of dice on the charge.
Also we know the SW trait (+2" to setup moves, which is also not weak)

Saturnine, like all variants of tactical dreadnought armor, looks best when worn by Iron Hands.

>>96038140
Literally who?

>>96038140
pick your poison, though it's funny how the sally looks by far the worst though the studio scheme for them is so ugly, they should have kept the bright green of 40k.

>>96038140
Saturnine looks best when thrown away with the sprues.

>>96035957
>t. no-taste

>saturnine doesn't launch till end of month
>nothing is likely to be restocked till after launch
>even after launch restocks tend to take a long time
>already have all my HH I currently own painted
Reeeee

>>96038140
What is even the point of those shoulder pads? They are on a different zip code from the rest of the body
They are literally not covering any part of the actual model, just hovering above it

>>96038245
Ironically looks 100% better.

>>96038251
*Unironically
Fuck my bones, I'm going to bed.

>>96038245
That's actually a lot better
It's making me hate the originals even more

>>96038245
They feel like an afterthought. I want to get a set while they're relatively cheap from the starter set and figure how I can use them as exo-suits with my SA. They are, after all, made from Saturn exo-suits while SA are based on Saturn void-troopers.

>>96038282
The torso is such a stupidly weird shape, specially on the back. It doesn't look like the pads even fit on it
Probably the reason they have to sit so high up to begin with...

>>96038245
>What is even the point of those shoulder pads?
They're energy shield projectors.

>>96038245
>>96038282
>>96038301
It might not be too hard to make the conversion. Trim the inner shoulder pads of part 5 down, and trim part 57 down to help it sit more flush, it might work. Luckily, it seems like the outer shoulder pad is thick all the way through, so you could also scrap the inside of that down to make it a better fit if needed, plus they're large enough to hide hackjob done underneath them.

It looks possible. Maybe some Anon will try it.

>>96038330
The energy shield projectors should, presumably, sit close to the stuff they are protecting

>>96038339
Probably not doable since the pads have that round cutout on the back that aligns with the round things on the back.
And they also have that weird design where the diagonal of the shoulder sicks out on the back for some reason. I don't think they have sit any lower

>>96038339
>4 part shoulderpads
We should have boycotted them when they released the mk6 tacticals

>>96038339
The HH designers really like Victorian furniture, don't they?

need to do some minor gap filling and it'll be ready for priming

>>96038365
What better to show the height of an empire to an Anglo?

>>96038109
You're allowed to build retarded lists in any army anon.

So what's wrong with 3rd edition?

>>96038459
Nothing
Everything

>>96038459
The fact that Libers haven't leaked yet

>>96038471
Do they send the books to youtubers? If so youtuber embargo ends this weekend and they'll already have the stuff so leaks could come at any point

>>96038471
Just wait for GMG to "accidentally" release his review 3 days before the embargo lifts like last time

>>96038459
Dick caught in blast template

>>96038459
They seem to have nerfed melee into the ground and boosted shooting to high heaven
Which is fucking retarded cuz no one has ever asked for that
There are some unrelated changes that look fine but there's a tone of change for the sake of change and they haven't really addressed any of the complaints from last edition

>>96037646
>>96037739
>”durrr stop schilling”
>didn’t even mention once about buying any of the new shit
This lack of basic reading comprehension is partly why I think you morons need to stop doomer posting since you clearly just want to be mad and retarded for the sake of it.
>>96037666
This seems cool and fluffy though, and you still get the old WE buff in spirit with the +1 attack.

>>96035465
>>96035472

>>96038562
>I think you morons need to stop doomer posting since you clearly just want to be mad and retarded for the sake of it

>>96035465
Imagine being the asshat who started on the winning team and decides to join the other side. They must have felt so stupid at the end.

>>96035051
Did a test model for a Saturnyne Ram. I was keen on the scheme at first but the more I worked on it the more I started to hate it so idk If I'll follow through with it. I just can't decide on a scheme for my SA, it's getting annoying

>>96038514
flamer template lost in urethra, Saturnine Terminators lost in anus.

>>96037736
>resin is really toxic
Jesus you people are morons. I'll bet you sit in traffic for a couple of hours a day huffing exhaust fumes, come home and clean your house with all sorts of chemical shit, and then sit there congratulating yourself on avoiding "toxic" resin fumes that can be knocked out with an activated carbon filter box. It's especially hilarious given you believe filament printers aren't toxic - bitch they're *melting plastic*, did you think that sickly sweet smell they give off was perfume?

Put it in a room you don't spend all your time in like a utility or second bathroom, run a carbon filter with a fan, and open the window for a few minutes when you're finished. It's not rocket surgery.

cant wait for the alpha legion detachment to just be a legion specialist detachment, but the bonus is that one of those can be from a different legion

>>96038592
Isn't Horus at the time of Istvaan III described as wearing his all-black armor? this image implies he only started doing that after molech

>Dave (Content lead): The leg plates are a conscious decision. We tried a few different iterations of the design, and this one read the best. I feel that the old flared armour had given the impression that it articulated midway down the leg.
So that's why!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ma3wgcpx/the-horus-heresy-round-table-crusade-armour-disintegrators-and-more/

>>96038339
>>96038354
It may be possible to drill into the back or cut down the vents so they're recessed into the shoulder and the pauldron can just slip past it.

>>96038859
>I'm the only one who thought this, so we changed it.

>more nothing burger roundtable articles
Dedgaem

>>96038859
But even old MkII with the abutted rings was suppose to be flexible. It was MkIII that introduced articulated joints to compensate for the extra plates making the limbs rigid. It was noted that while the MkIV style solid plates reduced flexibility slightly, it was worth it for the other benefits of the design.

>>96038859
For all the people arguing if the rapier crews were mk4 or mk6, there you have it.
They are neither
They just made them the fuck up
But it's ok because they copied a couple things from the imperial space marine so it totally makes sense to have a completely unmentioned mk of armor with no number in the series
Not like the numbering made any sense before anyways

>>96037672
> Storeslopper does his unpaid wagey work
Lmao at this bro

>>96038140
Based and correct take

>>96038506
Based ex-GW employee slowing flipping through the whole rules section of books doing a "review".

>>96038905
Lets not pretend in real life we don't stuff that falls outside of the official naming conventions. M1, M2 and M3 carbines are just versions of the same weapon and between M3 and M4 we've had a whole host of short rifles in official military service that have not been adopted as the M4 until the M4 was adopted.

What is a policy about bases in HH? Would it be considered modeling for advantage if using flat bases like Renedra ones?

>>96038859
Looks fine to me

>>96038859
I dunno if we really needed 7 different types of disintegrator weapons.
Either it disintegrates something or it doesn't.

>>96038954
I think whoever designed the 8th ed primaris marine gun options probably got shifted over to HH and being a chucklefuck decided to make a billion different versions of the same goddamned gun

>>96038954
By my count:
- Pistol
- Rifle
- Combi
- Blaster
- Heavy
- Terminator Version (Twin heavy)
- Dreadnought Version (Much heavy)

They're definitely turning it into it's own weapon type (On par with bolters, flamers, plasma, volkite, etc), but that does undermine the so-called rarity.

>>96038972
I mean, it definetly does a little. Previously your only access to disintigrators was nullificators, seeker sergeants (combi attachment), destroyers and characters. Now they look to be available to a lot more units.

>>96038972
Volkites were also rare and there's like fifteen billion versions from different titans, knights and down to those little chest anuses on the close combat thallaxes. Conversion beamers also have plenty of versions (just not for techmarines because fuck you). It only stands to reason the new hotness gets a dozen variants for everyone (as long as they're Marines, Martians, or Knights).

>>96038983
I don't mind there being more variants, but they should definitely be less available.
Rifles being a cut-down version that's less deadly but safer intrigues me though.

>>96038943
This is not falling outside of the official naming conventions. This is the equivalent of the army using a whole different gun for years and it not being mentioned anywhere ever
Artillery and vehicle crews would be perfectly fine in mk2
There was no reason to make up a new armor mk just to put on the rapiers

>>96038859
>I feel that the old flared armour had given the impression that it articulated midway down the leg.
If it doesn't articulate why the fuck is it cut into sections?
Can't they just admit they made them different for the sake of making them different instead of coming up with bullshit excuses?

>>96038998
>Rifles being a cut-down version that's less deadly but safer intrigues me though.
Thats the variant that seems most available. And while it will probably be fine (mechanically) I do think it sort of undermines disintegrators in terms of "vibe".

Previously they were impractical but scary. They were very expensive, very rare, had unimpressive range and strength, but they were Ap1 instant death guns. Whatever you pointed them at was praying you whiffed. Adding toned down variants removes that feeling of "dangerous and forbidden technology", the new ones are essentially just plasma guns, fine for killing power armor but a far cry from "one of the terrors of old night".

>>96038983
They should only be available to destroyers desu. Regular ass tactical support squads being able to take them feels wrong if they're so rare that the mechanicum doesn't recognize them as technology

>>96038993
>Volkites were also rare
Not being as common as bolters doesn't mean they are rare
You don't have every marine armed with a plasmagun either, doesn't mean they are rare if even militia sergeants and random hive gangers can get them
Disintegrators were only for HQs and seeker sergeants. That's a lot more rare that something all TSS can take

>>96038998
>less deadly
well shit, they were already bordering on uselessness compared to bolter so idk about that

>>96039017
>Previously they were impractical but scary. They were very expensive, very rare, had unimpressive range and strength, but they were Ap1 instant death guns. Whatever you pointed them at was praying you whiffed. Adding toned down variants removes that feeling of "dangerous and forbidden technology", the new ones are essentially just plasma guns, fine for killing power armor but a far cry from "one of the terrors of old night".

This.

>>96039004
>This is the equivalent of the army using a whole different gun for years and it not being mentioned anywhere ever
Yeah, just like in real life. You think there isn't a whole host of things in use today that we'll probably hear about decades down the line? Not to forget that 40k has been introducing stuff that's been in use for thousands of years like it's nothing. Now is the wrong time to start complaining about it. It's just how things are.

>>96039039
I agree that the new "artillery mark" armor isnt a big deal, but I think this is a silly defense. "its happening all the time in 40k" so what? Modern 40k is bad and has bad narrative beats, that is probably not a very controversial opinion to people here (I would hope). You dont need to appeal to bad things to defend a limited run niche armor which clearly uses elements from several different marks.

Theyre specialist techies who got given a slapped together mark of armor which is designed to suit their special needs, thats enough. Its not like slapdash marks arent a thing (mark 5 (non-prod) for example).

>>96039028
Turning a 3+ into no save is still a fair buff
Or, going by 2.0 versin, turning a 2+ into no save

All the anons complaining about the first article: the Arachnae turret IS manned. Theres a space marine inside the cockpit.

>>96039024
>Volkites were difficult to manufacture, even for the most able of the Mechanicum's forges, and the demands of the expanding Crusade swiftly overwhelmed supply of these relic-guns.
>Those few that remained in service were the purview of only a few specialised units at the outbreak of the conflict
Doesn't really sound like they're as common as plasma guns.

>>96039067
You think anybody is gonna let that get in the way of their doomposting?

>>96039060
>Modern 40k
Anon, where were the disintegrator veterans and Saturnine terminators before 3.0? Where were the Kratos and Sicaran tanks before they were introduced? Where did Contemptor-Cortus dreads go? The whole brand from WHFB to Specialist Games has been like this forever. What exactly do you want? No new stuff ever? An ongoing narrative where new stuff is always new and just entering service (meaning HH can't have anything not already mentioned because it's set in the past)?

>>96038945
If youre playing in an environment where modeling for advantage is a consideration then you should use citadel style bases.

>>96039022
It's also retarded that there are so many in the starter set

>>96039022
>Regular ass tactical support squads being able to take them feels wrong
They can't though? Only veteran squads according to the information so far.

>>96038459
Plasma ate shit

>>96038945
Height no longer matters in 3.0, much like 40k, so long as the model isn't prone.

>>96039120
I wish Seekers can, considering their sarge could in 2.0. Would suit their whole targeted elimination concept.

>>96039081
Volkites were passed over bc they were hard to manufacture compared to bolters. 'only in specialized units' still means all TSS, HSS, destroyers, breachers etc, just not used as the main weapon of the legions.
Disintegrators are relics of old night that were only from Terra, the mecanicum doesn't even make them.
Sure as fuck doesn't sound like something you are going to see spammed at every level of a legion like normal plasma, melta or volkites.
Like everything in the box they just made something that look different for the sake of selling the new hot shit even if the designs don't make sense and they have to completely ignoring the stablished lore.
Stop making excuses for them

>>96039137
What the fuck??? Did they remove true LoS?

>>96039148
Yes.

>>96039147
>2028
>HH 4.0 comes out
>New Archotech weapons sprue
>All marines have always had access to archotech weapons, what are you talking about?

>>96038530
>They seem to have nerfed melee into the ground and boosted shooting to high heaven

They WHAT!?!??! They boosted something that was already strong and nerfed something that was already weak????

>>96039155
Then why the fuck are they bringing back 1e characteristics if the game plays nothing like 1e??

>>96039022
>>96039120
Keep in mind that availably to us, consumers playing a war game, does not equate to realistic ratios in lore. I can buy 500 leviathans/fellblades/glaives/volkite anything because it simply a product. Not every player will buy them because it's in a starter box. Not everyone will make whole squads with them who do buy the box either.

I do appreciate the idea of limiting what units can take it. Veterans are the line I would stop at. The oldest marines having access to forbidden tech is fine.

>>96039155
So according to 3.0 rules if you stretched a 1mm high stick across the middle of the table no one would be able to shoot each other?

>>96039163
We've reached the "could play with war machine style cardboard terrain cutouts" on the slippery slope chart.

>>96039170
If you determined its heavy area terrain yes. So basically "if its a wall"

>>96039164
Exactly. It's hilarious people are having an aneurysm over disintegrator weapons, but when somebody plays a primarch every game it's totally fine.

>>96039170
Yes, narratively the 1mm high stick represents a barricade made of retardium, a rare material from the planet retardus maximus which causes all combatants within 500 meters to suddenly become completely and utterly retarded and think that they cannot shoot above the stick.

>>96039176
Not even talking area terrain, look at the line of sight rule. You would not have an unbroken line between the 2 targets.

>>96039163
>They WHAT!?!??! They boosted something that was already strong and nerfed something that was already weak????
Truly incomprehensible genius on their part

>>96039170
Notice how it doesn't say "Flat line base to base" anywhere. You can still draw a straight line above the stick.

>>96039191
Nigger can you read?

>>96039191
No, everything is terrain that isn't the flat of the table. Thus you would have to define it. Light it won't block LoS, medium it needs to be at least 3" to block, so it would need to be heavy.

>>96039216

>>96039216
Area terrain and stuff like buildings and walls aren't the same thing.

>>96039185
Real.

I want to do a mini campaign that draws off your physical collection. Exceptions for duplicating basic troops, but otherwise that one leviathan you own is the only one. Four games; the first three are happen at the same time or close enough that you have to pick and choose. Last mission is drawn off survivors.

>>96039155
>Heavy area terrain always obstructs LoS
ok, so it's a solid wall you can't see through. You can't see them, they can't see you
>Somehow they get a 4+ cover save if you shoot at them indirectly from above
Is this supposed to be another abstraction?
What kind of terrain would block 100% of LoS but also be area terrain and give cover to indirect fire weapons?
A concrete maze?

>>96039248
An extremely dense forest

>>96039230
Pieces, not features. It's poorly written I'll give you that, but it means TLoS here. Otherwise light, medium, and heavy don't have a purpose or functional rules. They wouldn't define medium as needing 3" depth to block if any amount does.

>>96039248
A bunker?

>A concrete maze?
So a ruined building? Because thats essentially what a whole bunch of thick debris is at that point

>>96036506
Isn't this the entire problem that was already encountered with glancing vehicles to death with autocannons, just have armor saves for glancing hits so this shit can't happen.

>>96039248
It's not supposed to represent one exact piece of terrain. It has those two rules to cover more use cases. Such as >>96039253, walls that might have 0.5mm bullet holes, black smoke, energy fields, etc.

>>96039248
A forest, the shell hits the upper floor of a ruin or something. Use your imagination.

>>96036506
>disable your main weapon for the entire game.
You can still fire, you just snap shoot (so hitting on 5s and 4s now)

>>96039263
>projectile bounces off armor
>no armor save
Yeah it's BS. Their abstraction for it is shit too. "Oh it hit a camera or servo!" Great, those have armor around them. The abstraction of an armor save is the shot *didn't* anything vital enough. It's like saying if you shoot a marine and you wound on a roll of a 4 no saves allowed because you hit the eye lense. No it's because the armor save failed.

>>96039257
>Otherwise light, medium, and heavy don't have a purpose or functional rules
nta but those have 6+, 5+ and 4+ cover saves respectively. They don't function the same unrelated to LoS

DOOM is upon us! Nothing will be good!

>all this whinging about something that can be fixed by punching the offending player in the mouth
If you try to put a stick in the middle of the table I'm beating you up and taking your lunch money, simple as

>>96039317
Really shows how many closeted 40K players we have in here if they’re thinking they and everyone else will do this stuff.

>>96039317
>Waaaah they made shooting too powerful my melee army is dead!!!!
>Waaaah they made terrain actually block LoS now the game is ruined!!!!
Make up your minds

>>96038859
Is Heresy just going to be low-effort oldhammer nostalgia pandering from now on? Is this the point in the franchise lifecycle we've reached? Fucking beakies everywhere, saturnine, disintigrator weapons everywhere, retro-inspired designs everywhere, RT bloat stats coming back, ect?

>>96039346
>Is Heresy just going to be low-effort oldhammer nostalgia pandering from now on?

>>96039346
Heresy always has been a love letter to the early editions of 40K. What’re you talking about?

>>96039317
get ready, anon...L-shaped ruins being the only playable board is coming to HH. Prepare yourself

>>96039370
I reiterate:
>>all this whinging about something that can be fixed by punching the offending player in the mouth

>>96039170
No.

>>96039370
That is literally the opposite of what will happen, the terrain rules mean that a few big medium terrain pieces in the center of the board are all you need to prevent non-barrage shooting on the approach (or at least they will with the common sense houserule of only getting to kill what's in LOS/range like last edition)

>>96039346
>event that was created in 2e
>with a bunch of armor from 3e (beakies being Heresy-era standard issue was 2e)
>featuring a bunch of characters who debuted in 3e/4e
>whose FW resins were originally LOOT AT THIS RT REFERENCE
>but now boomerhammer is le bad

>>96039390
???

>>96039346
>Hey, remember when we used to write good rules? Remember when 40k wasn't complete dogshit? We do!
>Instead of just bringing those rules back (which we could very easily accomplish), we instead will continue to release shitty awful rules. But at least the models will make you think of those good rules we used to make!!!

I wish all the 40k refugees and tourist would go and stay go.

>>96039403
Anon, you don't get it, Macca told him oldhammer is LE BAD and that modern Horus Heresy is COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED. Please ignore Alan Bligh saying HH is a love letter to oldhammer.

>>96039385
>2026
>drooling 40k 11th ed refugee opponent insists you use shitty looking L-shaped ruins board for HH 3.0
>you punch him in the mouth
>LGS owner steps in, kicks you out of the store and calls the police.
>"why can't you be more like the 40k players??" he says, as one of the watching 40k players snickers and picks his nose before heading back inside to buy 10 more boxes of primaris marines

Good job, anon.

>>96039409
With terrain pieces and LoS don’t you use true LoS? That’s what separates it from area terrain? Terrain pieces still give cover saves ya? Or when I’m thinking ruins that’s area terrain and buildings are etc are different rules.

>>96039475
>He doesn’t just play with a trusted group

>>96039481
>Thinking you can punch people and remain part of a trusted group
Bruh.

The Walrus Heresy

>>96039480
No you're right, terrain pieces are shit like barrels or crates or random broken walls, basically scatter terrain. Their only value now is in blocking LOS not granting 6+ cover (if you want that then just designate them as light terrain instead)

The Orus Orthodoxy

>>96036564
I hope so, I just bought the old FW belt-fed autocannons from Ebay.

>>96039481
>2026
>playing with a trusted group at the local club
>new guy insists you use shitty looking L-shaped ruins board for HH 3.0
>you punch him in the mouth
>your friends look over
>"WHAT THE FUCK??"
>friends pull the two of you apart
>"you can't just punch people in the mouth, man!"
>explain situation
>"it's just a game, man!"
>get kicked out of trusted group

Good job.

>>96039512
Why would you be friends with someone who’d do that?

>>96039549
I would not be friends with someone who wants to only use L shaped ruins.

The Rapier crew would make great Vigilator, Moritats, Seekers, Mor Deythan, etc.

>>96039578

>>96039309
My models will be good!

>>96039578
Nah, they're more techmarines, praevians, forge lords, and tank crew.

>>96039578
Mmmm....I want those sheathed bolters

>>96039578
Is that a holstered bolter? Kino.

How do people who claim to play warhammer not know what area terrain means?

RAPE ME UP AGAIN
TAKE ME PAST THE EDGE
I WANT TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE

>>96035465
>Why isn’t there more stories about traitors from the loyalist legions?
Because it doesn't really make sense. Highly motivated, highly disciplined soldiers who love their commanders more than their own father shouldn't rebel against them. The only non-bullshit way to do it is through evil space magic, but that doesn't really make for very interesting characters.

>>96039682
That's a codpiece

>>96039691
Sounds like unimaginative BL storytelling

>>96039695
No below that anon. I know how much you love dick, but please look around the cock if for once in your life

>>96039682
Yes

>>96039702
No.

>>96039578
>"you see that ass?"
>"I'm looking cyberskull I'm looking"

>>96039708
Replace the mag with an energy cell and you've got a sheathed volkite charger

>>96039686
>grass feature grants a save and perhaps blocks LoS
>Tree pieces totally block LoS despite peeking through branches
Shrimple, not shrimplified

>>96037672
Well. If the joints are posable to that degree it might be possible to get these guys to look good.
The design still sucks, but maybe not all is lost.

>>96039708
>Holstered bolter
>With extra pouch on top
GW, you're spoiling us.

>>96039686
I’m so used to true LOS that I admit I got mixed up with what provides cover etc compared to older editions.

>>96039248
The rule is incredibly stupid.
Wtf does LoS blocking terrain have to do with cover? If the enemy can't see you and is still hitting you that doesn't mean you should be getting the best cover save. It just means the blast scatters instead of rolling to hit...
I don't understand why GW terrain rules always have to be retarded
>You shoot at the enemy through light terrain, like plants, fences etc, they get a 6+ cover save
>You shoot at the enemy through medium terrain, like ruin walls, heavy ruble etc, they get a 5+ cover save
>You shoot at the enemy through heavy terrain, like battlements or defense line, they get a 4+ cover save
It's really that fucking simple.
Add in that blasts measure LoS from the center of the explosion and you are golden.
Why do they need so many words to explain something this simple?

>>96038905
>For all the people arguing if the rapier crews were mk4 or mk6, there you have it.
>They are neither
Well, actually they are based on the original Imperial Space Marine, the LE02. That means they are MkVI.

>>96037672 #
Well. If the joints are posable to that degree it might be possible to get these guys to look good.
The design still sucks, but maybe not all is lost

>>96039700
Anon pre BL traitors from loyalist legions or vice versa would straight out not exist other than the dark angels.

>>96039751
First in all things, lol

someone posts the image about the IW telling the WB to "have faith"

>>96039740
>>96039740
The abstraction is that if it's area terrain it's so thick and dense that it's hard to even accidentally get hit. It's simplified on the table top so you can move models, but the vision could be a collapsed building with smoke, rubble, columns, debris, etc the minis are climbing over and through. Much more than then leaking over a fallen log or rock. Again, as >>96039267 states; it's not always supposed to be a rectangle minis go in. The LoS rule and cover save are not mutually inclusive. It can block LoS and not be able get inside of.

>>96039700
No, it's simply respecting Space Marines for what they are. They're not supposed to be mercenary, but rather zealous hardliners.
It's why in the original fluff the only traitors amongst the loyalists were the Dark Angels, and there it was only the Dark Angels created in isolation on Caliban away from the Lion, led by a non-Space Marine.

>>96037666

>>96039708
I’m gonna be hard pressed not to want a full squad or two of these guys. I’m really liking the look, and not being the same 5 poses as the rest really helps.

>>96039740
I think this is how I’ll play it. Why does heavy cover prevent charging? Makes no sense to me

>>96039740
I’ll take over wordiness and things being wonky over older GW citing terrain rules that didn’t exist back in the day lol

>>96039691
>Terran marines who feel alienated from their legion after their primarch's return
>forces that were isolated from the rest of their legion and fought alongside the warmaster to the point that they feel more loyalty to him than some far flung Emperor
>Iron Hands whose strength-worship progressed to its logical conclusion and swore fealty to Horus after their primarch was killed
>warrior lodges that were literally designed by the Word Bearers to turn otherwise loyal marines into traitors by breaking down discipline and sowing disloyal attitudes

Anon use your brain

>>96039808
>if a grot unit is in difficult terrain, any ork units moving through that same difficult terrain may reroll their difficult terrain roll

This is the easiest rule in the world to remember

>>96039825
Except it doesn’t say terrain it says ground (which we all know what it means) but RAW it doesn’t interact with anything .

>>96039843
>b-but raw

Just call anyone who tries to argue with the intent of the rule based on RAW an autist

>>96039843
Someone post the letter of the rule magazine excerpt. Arguing to the letter, not because their interpretation is right but becuase the rule is poorly worded and does another or no function is why that image exists.

>>96039812
>>Terran marines who feel alienated from their legion after their primarch's return
>>forces that were isolated from the rest of their legion and fought alongside the warmaster to the point that they feel more loyalty to him than some far flung Emperor
Space Marines should not be guided by "muh feels."
They are not common soldiers.
>>Iron Hands whose strength-worship progressed to its logical conclusion and swore fealty to Horus after their primarch was killed
Iron Hands who are that stupid would logically just sit out the fighting and wait until Horus fought the Emperor to see which was stronger, rather than joining Horus because he won a battle.
>>warrior lodges
Evil space magic.

>>96039850
Welcome to the Warhammer player base, been here long?

>>96039874
I 100% agree, just posting an example of why everything is so damn wordy now.

>>96039691
>DA
Basically Luthor in miniature. "But I don't WANNA defend this planet, I want GLORY!"
>WS
A bunch literally DID turn Traitor then said sowwy when they found out Jaggy was Loyalist. Still penty of room for rogue elements.
>SW
Legion of The Rout was WE before WE.
>IF
Hard one that requires detailed fluff (or just copy the IW reasoning)
>BA
DRINKING BLOOD IS RAD
>IH
By Ferrus' "failure=weak=wrong" logic, him dying means Horus is strong=right
>UM
Hard one that requires detailed fluff (or political reasoning)
>Sallies
Hard one that requires detailed fluff (or too much Night Lords interaction)
>RG
The XIXth were the Luna Wolves 2 for a long time and had a lot of Horusboos that Corax seethed about

>>96039877
>Space Marines should not be guided by "muh feels."
Roboute agrees with you, that's why he invented And They Shall Know No Fear(tm) hypno-indoctrination

>>96039922
The White Scars were actually the one good example of "traitors" amongst the loyalists aside from the Dark Angels. They took different sides because the Khan himself was undecided, once he decided though they all fell in line.

>>96039081
The auxilia Veletarii are armed with volkite chargers as standard issue. Volkite weapons are about as rare as plasma.

>>96039877
>Space Marines should not be guided by "muh feels."
And yet there's plenty of examples of >>96039812. There was even a civil war about muh feels. Started by some Horus guy.

>>96039922
>(or just copy the IW reasoning)
What is the IW reasoning?
That Perturabo is retarded manchild?
IW legionairs have, by all accounts, way more of a reason to turn against their primarch than the Emperor.
It's not the Emperor forcing them to do retarded decimations or use attrition tactics. It's not the Emperor replacing them with automata and being insufferably paranoid. That's all on Perty
That's why so many people like loyalist IW, they make more sense than traitor ones desu

>>96039691
>Anon has never worked in any hierarchical large business or other entity.
Not even one drinks the Kool aid. Not all legions were cults, and even then the cults weren't always on the same page within the legions.

>>96039922
Traitor Iron Hands have the potential to be kino because the IH perfection through cybernetics gimmick means that ironically, the chaos God they're most likely to fall to is Slaanesh

>>96039922
I always did despise how fucking space-knight like Blood Angels are. They're SPACE VAMPIRES. Vampires are supposed to be monstrous. Instead they get Gary Stu sanguinius as a primarch who tells them "you can suppress your bloodlust through like, finger paintings and play-doh and shoving dildos up your ass" and they immediately become a bunch of goody-two-shoes who would NEVER be monstrous space vampires, they're all ashamed of their need to drink blood and eat flesh and act like it's some secret edgy shame. That's some dumbass hot topic twilight shit, give me Nosferatu blood angels

>>96039877
Space marines in 30k were way closer to common soldiers jacked up on super steroids than the sociopathic killing machines we see in 40k.

>>96039877
Remember, marines in 30k (at least before inductii) had far less psycho-indoctrination than their 40k counterparts, and were much less fanatical in their devotion (Besides the obvious exceptions).

It was only during the Heresy when marines were getting slaughtered left and right that they resorted to quickly indoctrinated recruits who were more brainwashed than trained.
These inductii are the template for all marines that came after, and it goes to show how degraded the Imperium had become by M41 that making inductii was itself a lost art with a high failure rate.

>>96039970
Think you're missing the point. In fluff they constantly talk about how hard they are to make and how they're special relic weapons for special units, while in the rules they're everywhere in every size.

>>96040006
There are so many traitor IW because of selection pressure.

Every time any legionnaires tried to think for themselves Perturabo decimated his legion and recruited replacements.

Do this for over a hundred years and the legionnaires don't even need Perturabos orders to start decimating anymore.

During the Sacking of Olympia while Perturabo was coming to terms with the fact that he was a complete fuck up a few of his legionnaires refused to participate in the massacre and got massacred themselves because most of the legion is too traumatised to imagine doing anything other than what Perturabo tells them to do.

Pert didn't even know this was happening, he was busy looking for a fall high enough to kill him. The Iron warriors were so blunted by repeated decimation that killing rebellious elements was routine to them and questions of morality weren't even considered.

>>96035465
Loyalist traitors have always been loyal soldiers of the Imperium that felt betrayed by their primarch's treason.
Traitor loyalists would need to have some huge resentment towards their own primarch that has been set up and for some reason ignored for a long time and that's not really how most of the loyalist primarchs are character wise.
Traitor ravenguard should absolutely be thing cuz fucking hell is Corvus a retarded hypocrite but outside of that you only really have traitor DA with all the autistic lodges, but that's already a thing. There's not a lot more to work with
Plus the traitor already have a huge head start, it'd be even worse if 75% of the forces are traitor and they still lose miserably

>>96039996
>And yet there's plenty of examples
Yeah, which is stupid and an example of Black Libarary and Forgeworld dropping the ball.

>>96040091
Volkite is a special issue weapon for people who need a gun that does bolter things better than bolters do. Solar auxilia cohorts made up a third of the Exertus Imperialis by the end of the great crusade and their elite infantry carried volkite as standard. Their newest tanks could mount Volkite Turrets. Their scout craft used them for anti infantry work where multilasers would not suffice. They're not relic weapons.

>>96040095
Yea, see, that's the thing, it shouldn't have gotten to that point at all. They should have called out Perturabo for his bullshit way before that
But I guess if the primarchs weren't allowed to be completely retarded we wouldn't even have a setting cuz god know GW writers can't handle things actually making sense

>>96040013
>>Anon has never worked in any hierarchical large business or other entity.
I have, but you know who isn't employed n big business? Space Marines.

>>96040043
>>96040090
They're still supposed to be elite warrior formations. The US military is bigger than a Space Marine Legion, and you don't see whole units defecting to China.

>>96038530
>There are some unrelated changes that look fine
Honest question, what are some good changes about 3.0? All this doomposting kinda blinds me to it

>>96040129
>They're still supposed to be elite warrior formations. The US military is bigger than a Space Marine Legion, and you don't see whole units defecting to China.

China's a different government. The heresy was a civil war. Why the fuck didn't you mention the American civil war as an example instead?

>>96038562
+1A >> conditional +1A

>>96039877
>Space Marines should not be guided by "muh feels."
And yet they are. Both traitor loyalists and loyalist traitors are guided by feefees.

>>96040095
It's why the IW didn't even need an Istvaan III to purge rebellious elements: It was so routine that they just did it in-house, probably very quickly, and went on like nothing ever happened. Other dropsite legions were similar in their lack of needing something like Istvaan III: The Word Bearers had decades to indoctrinate and weed out loyalists in their ranks, the Night Lords are a bunch of psychopathic criminals who had just destroyed their own homeworld and didn't need much convincing in the first place to turn traitor, and the Alpha Legion was so thoroughly loyal to their primarch(s) that, like the IW, there were probably few naysayers to begin with and what few there were could be quietly disposed of "in-house."

Meanwhile the World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children and even the Sons of Horus needed huge cullings to effectively become full traitor legions. They were each already falling from grace, but their pasts were so thoroughly rooted in being champions of the Emperor (War Hounds, Dusk Raiders, Luna Wolves, EMPEROR'S CHILDREN) that Istvaan III was necessary for Horus's plan to work. There were simply too many marines who were loyal to the Emperor above all else in those legions.

>>96040124
>They're not relic weapons.
Sure could've fooled me.

>>96040129
>They're still supposed to be elite warrior formations. The US military is bigger than a Space Marine Legion, and you don't see whole units defecting to China.
My brother in Christ, the US had a civil war

Well, at least they confirmed Disintegrator pistols are still AP2. That's weird but nice.
So it's only spammable normal disintegrators what are AP3 (and Adrasite won't be Gets Hot)

>>96040128
The only chance the IW had to not get brain broken was the first decimation which they should have refused.

Instead they let it become normalised. Human psychology was all that was needed after that. When we tell ourselves our evils are necessary we quickly forget they're even evil.

>>96040138
I think the vehicle changes look good. Sponsons being defensive weapons makes way more sense than 2.0. The changes to glances and penetrating hits also sound good to me. It's less punishing now imo. And vehicle squadrons can eat a dick for all I care.
The FoC also looks interesting. There's a ton of units fighting for elite slots that don't really have the same role or should even be comparable. I think the new system likely makes it easier to take support units.
Vets and legion specific units being restricted sound a bit weird but then again no one like suzerain or warders spam before
I like the way blast weapons work now, it's a lot more consistent. You can at the very least hope to have the equivalent of 1 shot at your own BS
More useful status effects seem like they are gonna give reasons to bring weapons others than the best damage dealer all the time, I think that's nice.

There's a lot of change for the sake of change that just looks odd tho

>>96040146
>China's a different government.
Not so different as the Chaos Gods.
>Why the fuck didn't you mention the American civil war as an example instead?
Most Americans were loyal to their state and fought along those lines. (Loyal loyalists and traitor traitors).
Less Americans were loyal to the federal government above all. (Loyalist traitors).
Almost no Americans were disloyal to the federal government and their own state. (Traitor Loyalists).
And those Americans were not who were disloyal to both the federal government and their state were not Space Marines.

RETVRN

>>96040129
>The warehouse workers are rebelling!
>They didn't like the pizza party? Don't hey know they're paid to work, not feel?
Out of touch upper management is a tale as old as time
>but my indoctrination!
Yeah no

>>96040129
>The US military is bigger than a Space Marine Legion, and you don't see whole units defecting to China.

This isn't the equivalent of US service members defecting to China, it's the equivalent of half of US military leadership declaring that they're going to depose the federal government for the good of the United States as a nation. From the traitor marines' perspective, they're not traitors to the Imperium, they're very proud of what they fought and bled for in the Great Crusade. They're traitors to the Emperor and see the war as one of saving the Imperium and ensuring they didn't fight the Great Crusade in vain. At least, that's how it was at first. Certain legions started to dip into not giving a shit about that anymore by the Siege of Terra, but by that time they were so far gone that it didn't matter anymore.

>>96040209
Oh you're just stupid.

Everyone ignore, please. We've won the battle years ago.

>>96040202
John French and his consequences have been a disaster for the IVth legion

>>96040006
>>96040006
>What is the IW reasoning?
"It's not fair that we take the majority of casualties because of retarded attrition-based infantry wave tactics, but everyone else gets the glory, then we have to GARRISON places while they get to do cool shit! FUCK THE EMPEROR!"
Note: This is also the logic Loyalist IWs use, but replace " FUCK THE EMPEROR!" with "FUCK PERTURABO!"
Please be patient they all have autism

>>96040207
The Vehicle Damage chart is the opposite of what it has always been. Damage itself is now a sidegrade in that vehicles no longer explode...but vehicle stunned is now permanent until you bring your Techmarine TM.
All of this could've been avoided by making Explodes be +1d3 HP instead of instant vehicle death. It was the easiest change to make, and they didn't.
>More useful status effects
They effectively divided Pinning into three separate things. Rotor cannons in 2.0 stopped the enemy, forced them into snapshots and prevented them from reacting. Now they don't do all that at once.
You're going to see less rotor cannons, not more.

>>96040138
I'm not going to name any of them, liking anything about 3.0 is currently forbidden on /hhg/ and everything will be argued against endlessly. I'm surprised there hasn't been a shitstorm about blast weapons only hitting one level in terrain again...

Figured this was the best place to ask: is there anyone, here or elsewhere, doing an Unification Wars thing like we tried in 22?

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/85001826/#q85001826

>>96034789 (OP)
>What's the worst possible interpretation of your legion trait for 3.0?
>Death Guard
Non-vehicles ignore difficult terrain, -1 movement

>>96040207
>It's less punishing now imo.
Enjoy gimped vehicles when an auto cannon scratches the paint with no saves of any kind allowed. So thematic, especially for models with force fields.

>>96040006
Many IW remained loyal because they were simply away from Perturabo. Kyr Vhalen had been crusading on his own for like 50-80 years. Dantioch had been effectively banished. Then one day they get the memo "death to the Emperor"? That's gotta be a mistake. Or heresy.
I want to hear of a Loyalist who was close to his Primarch, then still decided to go traitor.
Closest would be those WS who assumed Jaghatai would support his beloved brother Horus, only to find out that wasn't the case...once the Kahn returned from wherever away he was.

Anyone here know where to find the rouboutian heresy rules?

>>96040339
the what now

>>96040202
>if I were in the roman army, I would have refused decimation! What a stupid practice.

Screw drawing lots. You're the one getting decimated.

>>96040339
Sure do.

>>96040328
Yeah because a wepaon that can’t penetrate a tank has never managed to suppress it into ineffectiveness.

>>96040322
This is retarded. The Unification Wars should remain a mystery

>>96040365
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-roboutian-heresy-a-warhammer-40k-alternate-universe.440554/

Alternate heresy where the primarchs are switced with each going down their own path. Magnus manages to avoid selling his soul thanks to placing more attachment to the physical world while Guilliman becomes the dakr master of chaos.

>>96040388
Sounds like a worse dornian heresy

>>96040384
A part of the fandom just craves more stories about the past. Like Khorne and blood

>>96040295
>They effectively divided Pinning into three separate things. Rotor cannons in 2.0 stopped the enemy, forced them into snapshots and prevented them from reacting. Now they don't do all that at once

Somebody at GW probably played against Rotor Cannons (which are ONLY good for pinning things in both 1.0 and 2.0), got pinned, got assmad and proceeded to divide the pinning rules up so he could charge his despoilers up the table against roter cannons with no cover epic style

>>96040383
That's a pen, cannon. Ammo explosions are caused from ammo. Ammo is stored inside.

>>96040388
This is just the dornian heresy but bad and gay

>>96040111
Traitor Iron Hands were mentioned in the Rise of the Dork Man-can-I-cum which kinda of works because autistic morons like them could get swayed by power

>>96040408
Disagree but it was inspired by the Dornian heresy. I like what it did with Sanguinius turning to Slanesh to save his sons from the thirst and how they became slanneshi vampires.

>>96040424
But dornian heresy itself is already bad and gay

>>96040388
>>96040339
Seems cringe, I prefer the Sanguinus Schism, which I just made up and sounds cooler because alliteration

>>96040433
Yes so this is just worse and even more gay

>>96040383
>4 hits
>1 miss
>1 pen
>AP2 weapon rolls on damage table from pen
>6
>Vehicle explodes
>BUT GLANCES
What did Anon mean by this?

>>96040444
It’s a smoke canister cooking off. The Bradley never penned in the video.

>>96040432
>slanneshi vampires
fucking hell, that sounds like some Twilight tier fanfic garbage

>>9604043

That timeline died in the first five chapters.

>>96040295
>vehicle stunned is now permanent until you bring your Techmarine TM.
Good, I like techmarines and never could fit them in my list before. Immobilized vehicles were also permanently immobilized before. And shooting on snap shots is twice as good a before.

>You're going to see less rotor cannons, not more.
Bu you are going to see more flamers and that's the only type I really care about
And I'm assuming other weapons will also get the rules even if pining is not as good. It now also makes you attack at I1 in melee and being unable to count as stationary, it's not all worse
The grav weapon on the dread have Pinning(3). I'm assuming artillery will have Stun

>>96034823
What model is this? Sweet paint job mane

>>96040422
>>96040444
>They see fire and something exploding and assume something penetrated the tank

Shit like this is why there were four times as many "confirmed tank kills" in WW2 than there were actual tanks deployed.

>>96040444
>>96040422
That's not a penetration, it's a Bradley shooting an autocannon at a MBT
It's just fucking up it's optics and probably blowing up some canister on it

>>96040455
Nope it works think of the Nephilim xenos feeding off worlds and that's close to what the blood angels do.

It's real flaw is it really struggles to make the white scars do anything relevant after their primarch became possssed by a daemon.

>>96040422
>>96040444
Are you both fucking retarded? That's a Russian T90M being pummeled by a 25mm autocannon. The explosions are the tank's explosive reaction armor, but the tank itself began to go out of control and crashed into a building later in that same footage, likely due to damaging the fire control system, servos, motors etc. Glancing hits effectively put it out of action. 25mm can't penetrate a T90M, but it sure as hell damaged it to the point of being effectively inoperable

>>96040328
Oh, yea, such horrible fate having to shoot snapshots that hit on 5s as opposed to the autocannons just wrecking the vehicle like they did before
What suffering
literally unplayable

>>96037828
tortuga sells destroyers shoulder pads?

>>96037828
What bit are those grenades? Solid idea btw

>>96038859
Imagine how painful it will be to highlight those plates when they do not overlap..

>>96040501
Rad grenades

>>96040492
Or being immobilized turn 1 and no needing to kill it because you can avoid it entirely saving your fire for other units.

>>96040384
Well I'm retarded so it fits the bill.

Besides, I think the Horus Heresy should be a mystery, but here we are.

>>96040523
You are using magic autocanons that have LoS to you but not the other way around, I presume.
Have fun dumping you 10 autocannons on 1 predator and eating the return fire

>>96040523
Battlesmith now happening in the movement phase is such a huge improvement too. It even allows the repaired vehicle to move in that very same movement phase. This might actually be the first time in warhammer history that bringing techmarines is genuinely useful for keeping your vehicles running.

>>96034823
Crisp speaker of truth you got there.
>Hope that the Choas Militia he is ordering are playable

>>96040483
NTA. So are they glances, the shot ricochets off the armor or pens that break up the armor and/or penetrate secondary systems and do damage. Personally I'm stuck on "glancing" vs "superficial". If it's hitting the guts that's a penetrating hit for me. Doesn't need to defeat the plates. Just like a marine rolling a 1 for armor save and you can justify the shit going through their neck.

>>96040547
Not from the main gun, it's not defensive. If you aren't straight on it's at worse one sponson and maybe a pintle. It works in reverse too if the predator shoots at the ACs and they return fire, crippling it, then running away.

>>96040417
This apparently happens in the design studio a lot

>thing that is underpowered is used by a good player to fuck over a poor player during playtesting
>poor player says underpowered thing is OP
>underpowered thing gets nerfed into the fucking ground and can't do the one thing it was kind of good at before

>>96040556
It makes the new glance system make more sense to me (penetrating should have a bad things chart too). The crew is still driving, trying to fight (at very reduced effectiveness), and being slammed with 3 glances doesn’t magically kill the tank while the crew was at tip-top shape the whole time .

>>96039784
>>96040295
>All of this could've been avoided by making Explodes be +1d3 HP instead of instant vehicle death. It was the easiest change to make, and they didn't
Anyone who actually thinks explodes was the main issue with vehicles has never actually play a game with a vehicle heavy army

>>96040417
>>96040566
Yeah, reading that part about why they decided to fuck up the classic designs >>96038859 because some guy at the studio just is a faggot with shit taste pisses me off.
There's definitely a ton of nigger-IQ narcissists in the studio ruining and changing things just because they are high on their own farts and out of sheer pettiness, and the game suffers for it.
Reminds me of them deciding that tech-thralls should be able to run away because some retards at the studio kept charging their dreads and termies straight into the tarpit unit, because they are fucking retarded.
They really are an echo chamber that seemingly considers any feedback to be personal insults.

>>96040514
Where do you get those?

>>96040566
I hate them so much

>>96040565
>Not from the main gun, it's not defensive
A. you don't know that
B. I don't care
I really don't know how you can argue vehicles are worse than before when in 2.0 you would have wrecked a predator easily and now you can only maybe make it fire snapshots.
A 10 man HSS is probably twice the points of a predator to begin with and autocannons are also useless against av14 now so have fun with them for all I care.

>>96040708
>Reminds me of them deciding that tech-thralls should be able to run away because some retards at the studio kept charging their dreads and termies straight into the tarpit unit, because they are fucking retarded

so gw has game designers...who suck at games??? THE GAMES THEY'RE IN CHARGE OF DESIGNING???

>>96035051
Current iron warriors collection, trying to figure out what to get next to make my army more /aesthetic/. Deciding between 3.0 box, fellblade, typhon, kratos, more tacticals, peurty, etc.

>>96040828
This is common across every type of game.

>instance, plasma either glows blue or is a coppery colour when inactive. Volkite glows orange and grav weapons glow green, but here we decided not to attach a colour.
WTF IS THIS REAL?!?

>An important distinction between the Tarantula and the Araknae is that the former is automated, but the latter actually has a Space Marine in it.
Give me the fluff for your cuckpod occupants

>>96040864
Confirmed canon

So I play World Eaters, but mainly tank company, how fucked am I in this new edition?

>>96040883
>Oh what do we do with a drunken marine?
>Put em in the gun box in the urgall depression!

>>96040930
WE need to fail LD to get a trait and glances are crits that can't be saved and stunlocked vehicle until you roll any or brought a tech marine. But hey, your HSS and Tacs aren't running.

>>96040930
Not at all. Not only are you probably more survivable now that vehicle squadrons are not a thing
You also don't need to feel bad for not playing to the strength of your LA since there's barely any reason now.

>>96040930
You'd think you are the rare ranged World Eater and thus you aren't affected by the nerfs to melee.
But your tanks used to get better ramming, and now ramming is nerfed too.

>>96040864
You can have orange plasma too

>>96040982
So he goes from not having a legion trait for his tanks to not having a legion trait for his tanks

>>96040111
With White Scars they got infiltrated by Alpha Legion, Ultramarines I think you could do something with a comlany/warband that felt regret with Monarchia and began to fall into the traitor’s line of thinking, Corvus exiled some of his marines, and Blood Angels could fall with the brotherly bonds they made with Horus’ legion. I feel like there’s opportunities to show traitor Loyalists and I think it’d help hammer home how bad the civil war was but that’s just me.

>>96040375
Decimated by whom? Not the rest of my contubernium. So you'd need to sic the full Century on us. And maybe not every contubernium agrees with what you're asking the century to do
So you're not only losing 10% of the force.

>>96040864
Sorry anon, GW is going to force you to strip your models if you paint your plasma coils green

>>96040883
>legion wagie cagie
Don't understand why they couldn't have a legion serf or a servitor manning it. Wasting a marine on a static defensive gun feels weird.

>>96040438
Certainly you meant the Curze Calamity

>>96040483
I am okay with glances causing status effects (lessened). I am not okay with full penetrations not doing anything. Only "clean HP loss".
Do forgive me for thinking actually penetrating the hull should do more damage than hammering on it

>>96041077
YOU'LL TAKE MY PINK PLASMA AND BLUE VOLKITE FROM MY COLD DEAD MECHANDENDRITES

>>96041117
Should've done away with glancing hits completely and going back to hits either causing damage or not.

>>96040549
A good thing for 3.0, nice (do feel free to add on it)...but you could entice players to get techmarines by having them hand out buffs, rather than by highlighting Vehicle Status effects

>>96040617
Don't listen to them. I want to hear about the real scenarios when fighting with a mainly vehicle army

>>96041004
>>96041077
>>96041137
I'm going to carry around a spray bottle full of Simple Green + paint stripper + high-proof alcohol to purge non-canon-compliant weapon colors

>>96041148
GTFO with that bullshit. This isn't some video game where a vehicle starts shooting better because you are hitting it with a wrench. Techmarines are know for battlefield repairs in the fluff, so that is what they should do. Keep the retarded vidya game bullshittery in 40k.

>>96041097
For WS, AL, RG, it's a temporary punishment.
>No spooky/speed ops for you.

>>96041097
But during the great crusade and HH the legions did in fact have high enough numbers of marines to put some on less intensive combat roles. There wasn't a crippling shortage of marines like the chapters in 40k have.

>>96041195
Detach the turret from the base and roll around.

>>96041097
>>96040883
the Space Crusade Tarantula was manned I think

not sure if it came before or after the first metal tarantula had rules

>>96040962
>>96040973
Ouch, that fucking sucks. So I'm just going to focus on support squads and tactical instead of despoilers then.

>>96040982
We didnt get better ramming, we are the only assault legion that had no rules for ramming, and yes, I am still salty about that lol.

>>96041189
>This isn't some video game where a vehicle starts shooting better because you are hitting it with a wrench
>Now watch this space knight literally cast a magical power against a daemon
Anon knows not the ways of the Machine Spirit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA1fbnRhuS8

>>96038856
It's fan art. And the quotes were from a single thread some time ago.

>>96035944
it's called a Deredeo

>>96041097
>Don't understand why they couldn't have a legion serf or a servitor manning it.
Because those are worse shots and have slower reaction speeds. Its the same reason marine artillery vehicles are crewed by marines.

>>96041117
>meltacannon sheers off half the hull, the gunner is atomized, the reactor is smoking, the crew is exposed to gunfire
>no drop in performance
>smoke canister gets clipped, sets off
>Everyone inside panics for the rest of the battle until one is brave enough to look outside and see the smoke cleared or a techmarine starts banging on the side of the hull
i m m e r s i o n

>>96041225
>the 11th legion were Skaven after all
and purged by the other furry legion. poetic.

>>96041023
>felt regret with Monarchia
WB got what they deserved and they are still butthurt about it even after doing much worse themselves.
No one is goin to feel bad for them. They don't deserve it
Their whole grudge against the UM is also like a retard criminal getting a grudge against the police that arrest him as if he's not the one at fault and they aren't just doing their jobs

>>96041097
Static defensive guns are plenty useful. Even more when they hit at marine BS instead of 5s

>>96041243
>instead of despoilers
we haven't seen despoilers, they might be good.
Rhino rush is a thing at least

How do we not have a single leak of a liber? They've been in hand for reviewers and YouTubers. Presumably shipped all around and definitely printed en masses for the 26th.

>>96041335
Anon we never have leaks until it's time for the reviews
It's all done by GW to begin with

>>96041283
Makes you wonder why they don't put marine remains into Skyspear missiles instead of serfs. Like, do they even want to hit the enemy?
>Its the same reason marine artillery vehicles are crewed by marines.
At least they get around and participate in aggressive action. The turret is literally sitting there, doing nothing unless the enemy comes to them. Like using a Navy SEAL to man a field gun because they're better trained than artillery crew.

>>96041301
I had a fever dream that glances were one HP of damage and pens rolled on the table after a failed "integrity check", which is rolling equal or under to the remaining HP at the end of any phase they suffered a pen.

Thoughts?

>>96041347
They leaked for 2.0

>>96041348
>At least they get around and participate in aggressive action
I dont think basilisks and scorpiuses are doing much aggressive drifting through the battlefield, they just park themselves as far away as possible and shoot at people that cant see them.
Also rapier batteries, not known for their mobility.

Its not a large portion of their arsenal, but marines definetly have defensive/immobile elements that are nontheless composed of marines.

>>96041359
They took that leaker behind the barn long ago

>>96041348
Maybe they just man the gun for defensive engagements and then get out whenever it's time to engage in offensive actions? And then a dropship picks up the leftover gun

>>96041329
At this point, hopium for +1A for Despoilers & Assaults is the only thing keeping me interested.

Also, charging from a Rhino is Disordered.

>>96041373
>charging from a Rhino is Disordered.
It's still better than not charging or paying for a land raider

>>96041351
A nuanced approach that conforms the the new standards of the editions core mechanics? Perish the thought.

>>96041366
Scorpius was literally designed for breaking sieges and Rapiers got tracks and are shown used in Zone Mortalis. Majority of their guns are even direct fire.

>>96041359
This. We even have the 2.0 beta test rules. Shrapnel weapons used to have both Pinning and Shred
>>96041370
;__;

>>96041335
The rulebook leaked early because a wage slave in Alaska stole some of the saturnine boxes out of the back of his truck to sell on eBay. This hasn't happened for the libers, so we're gonna have to wait.
As for reviewers and YTroons... if they wanna continue working with GW, leaking shit is the best way to make sure GW won't send you any new shit early in the future.

>>96041359
That the entire playtest rules for 2.0 leaked was wild. Wonder if GW stopped doing out of house playtesting after that (wouldn't blame them)

>>96041383
Yeah this. This is another good thing for 3.0.
I heard flyer rules were interesting this time around. That they were fluffy even if they were also more limiting

>>96041390
>Scorpius was literally designed for breaking sieges
So were trebuchets.
Its an artillery piece, its purpose is to sit in one place and drop missiles on people from far away. Thats also its mechanical identity.

>Rapiers got tracks and are shown used in Zone Mortalis
Yea, where they can sit and just hose down a corridor. You arent supposed to breach with them.

>>96041400
Ands Legatine Axes used to be Rending(5+), Murderous Strike (5+)
Imagine the cancer

>>96041409
>I heard flyer rules were interesting this time around
The shooting limitations are kinda retarded but the core mechanics are the best I've seen them make.
Flyers basically come into the battlefield to do one thing and then fuck off. They can leave or take a unit, and shoot or shoot with more weapons. There's no messing around with weird movement restrictions and never having anything in firing arc after the first turn

>>96041411
>HSS and tarantulas are literally the same thing
Yeah, ok, whatever.

>>96041411
>You arent supposed to breach with them.
Today I shall remind them that the tracks on Rapiers may not be the fastest, but enable marines to carry field guns where artillery cannot fit.
Like INDOORS >:D

>>96041433
I didnt mention HSS, but yes, those also sit in one spot and shoot most of the time.

>>96041439
The space marine shall master all weapons, and all battlefields

>>96041455
Sure. And when its his turn to do heavy weapons he stands in a ruin and lays down suppressive fire on everything from far away.

A HSS might be capable of acting as tactical marines or despoilers or whatever, but they dont, they act as HSS. Theyre not a generally mobile element.

>>96041413
>Ands Legatine Axes used to be Rending(5+), Murderous Strike (5+)
Yikes! How gruesome.

>>96041435
>Rapier doing its best cool-aid man impression

>>96041473
Terranic great swords don't go on models with 5A, I don't think

>>96041469
Woah I'm not the other guy. I'm not saying HSS or Rapiers are fast by any means - I'm saying they're not static.
I think most marines could use HSS and "light artillery" (Whirlwinds, Rapiers) on their assaults better than they could heavy artillery, because those could more easily reposition and somewhat keep with their lightning fast assaults.

Who the fuck wrote this? Some programmer with his head to far up his own object oriented ass? Why is terrain defined as a model? Why do they bother to talk about how a terrain piece has a base, then tell me to ignore it, then tell me that you can interact with it by going atop the base but then to pretend the base isn’t there? What did I just read
>areas of terrain
>area terrain
Why would they introduce two almost identical lingo to mean two separate things…
Why are they obsessed with capitalizing normal words and keyword if fucking everything.

Also how does base contact work with skimmers where you cannot reach their hull? I presume this is written somewhere else?

>>96041097
>static defensive gun
>Posts non static defensive gun
I'll have you know that thing hovers

>>96041520
4A conditional, true. Those beta Legatine axes were Specialist weapons, though.

>>96041559
>got filtered
ESLs deserve this

>>96041574
I mean, even then the stupid thing about suzerains is that they cost the same as generic cataphractii

>>96041560
>that thing hovers
I like to think it doesn't, and the marine has to push it scraping across the floor. Making screeching sounds like when you dragged an old metal schoolchair.

>>96041559
>Also how does base contact work with skimmers where you cannot reach their hull?
Skimmers still have a base?

>>96041559
Terrains are models you nitwit. They're models without in game characteristics, but they are models with physical shape that matters. This isn't warmachine you can't just replace a terrain piece with a mouse pad.

>>96041624
>Model too tall, can’t go under skimmer so you can’t touch his base with your base
>skimmer to high, can’t touch his hull with your base either
Cork is back on the menu boys!
>>96041580
It’s a British English thing lol.

>>96041597
if the hover generator malfunctions, the marine can take his leg armor off, put one leg in front of it, roll it over that, put another leg in front of it, roll it over that and pick up the rear leg, put it back in front and roll...

>>96041640
Yes but, why? Terrain is terrain. Models are models. The need to def class{terrain}[inherits class {models}] is some major ocd.

>>96041559
>Everyone missed your point entirely
Feature, Features, Area, Area of, Pieces and how you interact with them is sloppy, yes. The "ignored" parts simply mean you can measure over it, literally, when checking two points or place models on it.

More Space Marine emplacements when?

>>96041720
We did see that you can buy assets during the preview for points. A few were 40mm scenic markers, one of which was an ammo dump that did something I forgot.

An orbital bombardment is a pie plate blast ingame.

But in the HH novels, orbital bombardments fucking destroy Calth. Lance strikes and macrobatteries break apart the crust of the planet and kill the biosphere.

Is it just an abstraction or are there precision orbital weapons?

>>96041455
I am the very model of an Iron Warrior general,
I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the kings of Olympia, and I quote the fights heretical
From Cypri-Mundo to Phaeton, in order categorical;
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical,
About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse.

>>96041738
>Orbital Precision Strike mentioned
Just like Helldivers.

Make Frost weapons not shit please

Actually expecting them to just not exist anymore since GW love deleting options

>>96040214
I like nuMk2 more. The helmet is more balanced and isn't oversized and the chest plate is definitely improved

Could I just use the venerable dread as an ironclad in HH? I don't think it would look too out of palce with the right armor panels, it wouldn't look any more blinged out than the average special dreadnought or praetor

>>96041817
All boxnaughts are one profile and the iron clad options are actually gone. It uses the ven dread box rules

>>96041738
The smaller ships have guns too. The kind of bombardment that cracks a planet comes from the bigger ones

>>96041738
Orbital strikes on the table have never been particularly spectacular. Remember that the Deathstrike ICBM on the table had a 10" (think it was 8"-12" in the OG 5e rules) blast while Saturn V sized melta torpedoes from orbit had 5" ones. Don't think about it too hard.

>>96041770
>If they're removed they're not shit anymore!
It's a win-win for the design team.
But realistically they're just gonna be power weapons with Reaping Blow.

>>96041858
the new and unimproved Reaping Blow which is nerfed! Now instead of needing to touch two models to get the bonus attack, your entire unit must be outnumbered by the enemy unit. And 10 terminators aren't considered outnumbered even by 20 despoilers because of Bulky, so no extra attacks! Such a fun melee edition!

>>96041835
>iron clad options are actually gone
Can't wait for them to lose havoc launchers too, so I'm just left with two decorative missiles on top of cuckbox...

>>96041889
Bulky doesn’t count towards being outbumbered

>>96041383
RIP Despartan Doom

>>96041902
wrong

>>96041742
I'm very good at integral and differential calculus;
I know the scientific names of automata hereticus:
In short, in matters heretical, martial, and mechanical,
I am the very model of an Iron Warrior general

In fact, when I know what is meant by "mamelon" and "ravelin",
When I can tell at sight a volkite charger from a Culverin,
When such affairs as sorties and surprises I'm more wary at,
And when I know precisely what is meant by "commissariat",
When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern gunnery,
When I know more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery –
In short, when I've a smattering of elemental strategy –
You'll say a better Iron Warrior has never shot artillery.

For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century;
But still, in matters heretical, martial, and mechanical,
I am the very model of an Iron Warriors General.

>>96041919
you're one of the good ones

>>96041928
Lmao. Likewise.

>>96041455
Isn't that what Guilliman's Codex teaches? How marines are circulated through scouts, devastators, and assault before becoming tactical marines and forgetting everything they were taught? Also, Pre-Mortarion DG believe in the trinity of weaponry like the SoB thousands of years later.

>>96041973
>Pre-Mortarion DG believe in the trinity of weaponry like the SoB thousands of years later.
Mortarion would have made a good Inquisitor, and his legion proper Ordo Hereticus witch hunters. Being friends with that Typhon ruined all of that
>(Yadda yadda yadda)... Their wargear was BASED

>>96041738
Several reasons
>Abstraction for game rules sake
>Not too absurdly powerful for balance reasons
>Most of all it would not make sense for a commander to order an orbital strike using any of the really powerful stuff on an area of the battlefield where his soldiers are also present

>>96042012
Counterpoint: several primarchs don't have sense and do have (or at least used to ;_;) access to orbital bombardment. See: Perturabo

Why didn't Leman Russ just blow up Prospero?

>>96042009

>>96042069
He was trying to capture Magnus alive.

>>96042012
the main reason is just gameplay. It'd make a good mission if you needed to complete several objectives to be allowed to voidstrike half the battlefield away.

- Destroy void shield defense generators
- Activate telemetry locator beacons
- Bring down void defense weapon batteries by hacking a console

Upon achieving all 3 objectives, mark spot at end of your turn and at start of your next turn everything <36" of the marker is CHOOMED from existence.

>>96042069
each primarch has a special gift. Sanguinius can fly. Vulkan can revive. Leman Russ can make the most idiotic of all possible decisions at any moment of his life.

>>96042102
Since when?

>>96042069
The main city, which was pretty much the only part of the planet where people actually lived, was being protected by incredibly strong telekine shields. Nothing that Russ had brought could punch through that.

>>96042056
Well the game also has never allowed you to shoot your own units deliberately.

>>96042105
That sounds like a neat idea for a custom campaign mission.

>>96042147
Isn't a main plot point for the burning of prospero Magnus deciding to commit suicide by Leman and lowering the defenses, which is what allowed the space wolves to land at all.

>>96042147
The shield cannot protect the city if you blow up the planet

>>96042178
For the Prospero system and orbital defences yes, but the Thousand Sons legions weren't gonna just let the SW nuke them once they noticed them in orbit. Magnus couldn't stop them from defending themselves.

>>96042190
Yes it can, look at what happened to Caliban. The Rock still exists even into 40k.

>>96042178
Magnus prevented all early warning systems and sent the fleet off. I think the wolves just beat the shields to death uncontested.

>>96040883
Extreme slowpoke, but I just realised that this just a reskin of the old FW hydra emplacement, only it looks worse.

Also why is there one or more autists trying to imply that all terrain blocks all LOS at all times? Its still true line of sight OTHER than the explicitly differing rules in area terrain.

>>96042293
Hydra emplacement with a more Legion looking turret (similar to what you see on their flyers). Wonder if they'll make a Legion Hydra with it. Just to rub it some more in Army's face.

>>96042293
>Also why
Because the people who don't buy the models or the books and don't play the game also can't read well.

>>96042316
>clear Mark7 helmet and chestpiece in a HH model
OH NO NO NO ARMOR MARK AUTISM SISTERS, OUR RESPONSE?!

>>96042178
Yeah but he also just changed his mind a page later because his friends were crying

>>96042332
That's one of the variant Mk IV helmets, as seen in the Mk IV destroyer squad

>>96042332
It's mark 4. The pilots of the storm eagle and fire raptors on the other hand....

>>96042344
>>96042332
My bad, as seen on the Mk IV assault squad

>>96042293
Because while heavy terrain is clearly referring to big terrain models like the castellum, theoretically a faggot could say "this tiny square patch is heavy terrain" and then park his barrage tank inside it to be forever invulnerable

Now there are a few reasons why this is histrionic nonsense:

1) The official missions don't do anything like this with heavy terrain, which is very rare and usually inacessible

2) Tournaments will never do it

3) If someone tried to do something like that in a pick up game, they weren't anyone you'd actually want to play anyway

So the entire point is moot and is just about getting mad over RAW for the sake of getting mad, same as the people who tried to argue Terminators didn't wear Terminator armor in 5th because their unit entry didn't list Terminator armor in their wargear

>>96041738
Orbital bombardment is overrated. A single macrocannon is not a nuke. There are specially fitted fleets for exterminatus, and the fleet that destroyed Calth was absolutely huge. Hundreds of ships, including some of the largest ships ever fielded in 40k's history, bombed it to hell, nonstop, for days on end to completely destroy its biosphere, and even then the underground arcologies survived. Blame FFG for the fan perception of orbital bombardments consisting of single sword class vessels nuking entire continents over the course of hours. Stupid bastards.

>>96042316
>>96042351
That's not the same, there's way less space between the eye lenses and the mouth grill on the fire raptor gunner

>>96042368
Rest of the Marines are pretty MkIV. The Fire Raptor was made for 30k and MkIV was the models of choice for everything back then. The pilot is very 40k, since it's just the Stormraven pilot.

>>96042383
>The pilot is very 40k, since it's just the Stormraven pilot.
Easy headswap at least

>>96042392
Torso too. Legs are hidden under all the controls, so it's no biggie.

>>96042360
Both players need to agree what terrain is considered as before the game.

Is some raging faggot tries pull some invulnerable artillery bullshit, why would you even play the game at all?
Just tell them to get fucked and find someone as gay as them to play with.

But people (or maybe just one nerd) keep trying to imply that LOS is actually base to base or something, and that models behind a waist high wall are hidden from LOS

>>96042399
>Torso too.
Techmarine armor is all over the place, something they seem to have taken even further with the rapier crew armor. It IS a good use of any remaining legion specific torsos from 1.0 though.

>>96042403
>But people (or maybe just one nerd) keep trying to imply that LOS is actually base to base or something, and that models behind a waist high wall are hidden from LOS
Yeah that's clearly not the case

>>96042416
I really prefer the forgeworld era 30k models for their overall size.

Their size/proportions compared to vehicles (which have never changed) looks way better than the significantly larger new plastic models. Like they keep making infantry bigger and bigger, but every other model stayed the original size - hell, landraiders actually got smaller.
Also the FW era weapons are large but still sensible looking. The new ones are just comically large in many cases.

>>96042480
>>96042480
>>96042480

>>96040322
Oh cool, I'm in that thread. Feels like ages ago.

>>96041559
>Why is terrain [pieces] defined as a model?
Read the whole sentence. It's explaining that while it's got a model on the table, it doesn't have a profile like other models.
>Why do they bother to talk about how a terrain piece has a base, then tell me to ignore it, then tell me that you can interact with it by going atop the base but then to pretend the base isn’t there?
It's saying that even though the terrain piece may have a base, it doesn't affect gameplay. Placing models on top of the base isn't interacting with it - most models don't let you put things on their base, so this is telling you to ignore that rule because the base doesn't affect gameplay.

The 3.0 rules might be terribly written on the whole, but the example you picked isn't. You might be retarded.

>Areas of terrain vs area terrain
Yeah that's bad rules writing

>>96043430
I didnt mean I didnt understand it, just that I cant think of a worse way to say what they did.