React to this! Edition
Previous Heresy: >>
>>96069258>HH 3.0 Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3
https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://imgur.com/a/8EaFmTM
And more you should probably backtrack the last two or so threads
>New Edition upon ushttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>New to The Horus Heresy? Hereโs Everything Youโll Need to Get Startedhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back upใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
Thread question:
Whos playing 3rd vanilla? Or my GFs question: "When space cats?"
>>96073290 (OP)Ay what's this animaymay from?
Uhhhh. Iron Warriors are the best legion and Imperial Fists can stay fisted.
Has the shields reaction been posted yet? Anybody knows what it do?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ujwwshq1/saturday-pre-orders-saturnine/
>>96073314Tell me something new.
>Erebus, Kor Phaeron and Zardu Layak have IN 7
>Argel Tal has IN 8
Argel is literally confirmed to have been the smartest person in the legion.
>>96073308+1T, its not amazing. Okay vs small arms fire.
Say, dumb Tartaros copypaste fiasco aside, what are your impressions on the legions' rules? Is there any hope for them?
>>96073313Ill pick up some MKII when they go on sale for like half price 2nd hand.
>>96073315>>96073323That's indeed not very impressive.
>you can buy a box of rapiers, and use the crew as an augur squad while leaving the rapiers as illegal units
>or you can just use four spare tacs
>>96073322If he was so smart then how come he got stabbed to death?
Anyone know what Aflame (1) does on Perdition weapons?
>>96073335>>96073323It is for the whole phase
>>96073334Same. 1 unit and maybe the robot if the price is reasonable.
Crusade Primary Detachment - 855
PHQ - Catapraetor (volkite, paragon) - 160
AHQ - Vigilator (Rewards of Treachery) - 95
RoT - Justaerin (10, chainfist, 4 hammer, 5 axe) - 600
Army Vanguard - 1095
AELT - Lernaean (5, 5 claws, Logi) - 300
ELT - Lernaean (5, c-beam) - 265
ELT - Lernaean (5, c-beam) - 265
HTR - Land Raider - 265
You reckon the Land Raider has a nice 50 points of upgrades I can slap on it to make this a legal 2k list?
>>96073333If you thought 2.0 legion balance was bad, 3.0 legion balance is even worse.
AL is fucking retarded good now, Tsons got massive glow up so expect powers for days again.
Its also super inconsistant.
Tsons get access to theri cult arcana that they can buy which become basically full on schools, but DA lost all their wing abilities for reasons.
You also have some legions whos shit just out right does not work, IF advanced reaction for example literally does not work, because the way its worded is that you shoot yourself.
Say, dumb Gorgons copy-paste guns fiasco aside, what are your impressions on regular legion rules and Wargear? Is there any hope for plasma?
>>96073343Tf is a augur squad??
>>96073333Internal balance looks way better than last edition at least. There were so many units that you could instantly tell were useless just looking at the point cost and rules.
>>96073333Dark Angels seem boring and heavily reliant on perpetually out of stock resin models. Good. Let the weak flee to greener pastures.
>>96073354Plasma got nerfed again LOL
>>96073352>in addition to Lerneans getting more options, they can also steal all the other units that got more options
>>96073354For TS is good, units can give themselves rending 5+ to auto breach/wound.
My TS already spam plasma and now I feel dirty
>>96073367>Now EVERY unit is worthless!>HANG THE BANNER
>>96073366Cheerleaders that take up a command squad slot
>>96073343I'm planning to use the rapier crew for the auger squad and slap their spare bits onto mkII marines for the crew. There's no reason for guys manning field guns to be that fancy.
>>96073353>AL is fucking retarded good nowI disagree. The AL trait is the one that literally went unchanged in this transition (+2" distance). It is Lerneans what finally look like what they should have been all along.
The Last Legion finally completed its transition...to 2.0! Lmao
It would be nice to keep having Banestrike for non-designated squads (like SoH), just fucking saying
>>96073354plasma is good against 1w in 3+ in the hands of tactical support squad
>>96073354All ranged weapons have been nerfed, so in the end plasma seems in line with everything else.
Only some weapons that were absolutely fucking useless in 2.0 were improved, and even not all of those (grav flux bombard is still a joke lol)
>>96073322>>Erebus, Kor Phaeron and Zardu Layak have IN 7Pic related, they're in good company! Also lmao the team deleted half a dozen special rules and two weapons from his profile and all he got for it is +2 when rolling a specific gambit you might not even want. And he didn't even drop in points cost.
>>96073333My impression is that its more an issue of "feelbads" than active problems. Stuff seems (generally) decently balanced, theres no obvious "wow take this everything else sucks in comparison" stuff, especially not in the vanilla roster.
The legions seem (mostly) balanced relative to one another, with the exception of EC no-one ended up mega shafted in the "wow your unique weapons suck" way or whatever. The special units also all seem usable.
In terms of "effort and attention" its a bit of a different story. Tsons basically get 6 bespoke legion psychic disciplines, and theyre GOOD. Will probably be one of this editions big dogs (rending 5+ utterly breaks some weapon types. If you show up and see a line of Tsons autocannons just pack it up and go home). Other legions like WB and IW have basically nothing unique going for them in terms of wargear and options.
>>96073354The weapons all seem fine. The worst is probably the power scythe, but its still "power weapon+", a sgt tier weapon.
Plasma looks to be in the dumps with the exception of the predator cannon, the sicaran cannon and (weirdly) the mhara gal cannon, which all kept breaching4+ and are now D2, so they can go melt whole blobs of terminators and veterans.
>>96073384>"using the L.A. army list"...do Heretics get one of these, or is there a hidden beef we haven't even caught yet?
>>96073383>If everyone is underpowered, no one is.
What is a good direction to take for building a marine force supporting a solar aux cohort? Iโm mostly planning on dracosans wheeling rifleman around supported by leman russ tanks. How do I organise my marines to support that? Have them focus on anti-armour? Melee? Get them to infiltrate ahead? Focus on causing status effects?
Why couldn't they just have left the options in?
I was so excited for this edition, underneath all that word puke was an interesting system once you managed to decipher it.
Now half my army is illegal and I won't be able to fucking play the game unless I start chopping up all my stuff.
I just wanted to play the stupid space dad game.
WHY JAMES!? WHY!?
>>96073403All Legions use Legiones Astartes list
>>96073406>everyone is underpoweredConsult the pict-capture
>>96073403Traitors are L.A, thats just all marines.
>>96073384Thats cute. I imagine them and a master of signals sitting near one of those holographic projector tables behind the front lines, shouting out orders and voxing people.
>Can take a squad with hammers and shields
Old vanguard vets, my beloved
>>96073333The powerscale is really fucked.I play RG and TS with Sally, SA, AL, and Mech allies. I feel like my evil twin made al the rules to make my armies (minus SA) good in ways I personally find annoying. I hate to complain about playing with some winners of the edition change but I just know I'll get eyerolls when I show up and I am not going to nerf myself nor am I going to abuse it. We'll see how this edition shakes out.
>>96073415We won't know the full damage until we have the legacies rules.
>>96073395>All ranged weapons have been nerfed, so in the end plasma seems in line with everything elseI think the game could very well afford a 2-shot S7 Breaching 4 plasma gun with a full AP2 supercharge profile.
I mean, seems 4 S7 D2 Breach 6 shots are fine lmao
>>96073405Lucius being only a centurion is kinda funny. Him and saul got demoted compared to everyone else. I guess hes a champion consul specifically.
>>96073354Very good, actually. Like, they fixed a tone of units that were basically unusable before.
And removing brutal has made another bunch of them immediately better.
A lot of weapons that were a hard pass can now be considered, there is much better internal balance with the options.
Melee jump pack veterans as a generic unit are great
With all those great changes it boggles the mind why the went full retard with the consuls and a couple legion units
>>96073415Hey Anon, Legacies or not I'll play against your army as-is
>>96073416>>96073419I know it SOUNDS like a stupid question, but the way the Ec/WE 'rites of war' are worded made me pause
>>96073399>with the exception of EC no-one ended up mega shaftedEC will be ok since almost nobody ignores bonuses to combat resolution with stubborn, inexorable, fearless anymore.
>>96073399>with the exception of EC no-one ended up mega shafted in the "wow your unique weapons suck"Wait, what happened to the EC? All I did hear is that Phoenixes were -1A compared to everyone else
>>96073302Violet Evergarden. I liked it a lot, it has some very touching moments and some very, very sad episodes. It's about an autistic blonde retard girl that fights in Alternate-Reality-Not-WW1 and then has to adjust to civilian life after it ends. Everyone is too poor and stupid to use typewriters so they hire her to write letters for them.
>>96073395>grav flux bombardwtf do they have agaisnt leviathan gravguns?
The other grav guns go from good to fantastic. It's just that one that is useless
Plasma cannons too. For what fucking reason are they even worse than normal plasma? You are almost guaranteed to do better with a plasmagun...
>>96073399>The worst is probably the power scythe, but its still "power weapon+", a sgt tier weapon.How do they expect a Commander to wield such a thing baka. But the WS power glaive fares no better, with its Impact antisymmetry.
Everything sucks, man.
>>96073425It's 3 shots anon.
>>96073429They used to be line captains; Eidolon was the only lord commander. In HH2 all of them were praetors.
>>96073453Do termies count as being stationary? Is that what Implacable Advance does?
>>96073448That one being the only grav weapon with AP 4 really feels like a fuck you in particular
Given GW is lame and gay, I've thought up of something that would allow armoured spearheas to be playable
let me know what you think
>Master of armour is high command slot unit, and must be upgraded with a decurion, he gains +1 BS and a 5+ invun
>if he's your high command, tanks upgraded with decurions become command slots
something simple, with the decurions serving as a "forced upgrade" if you want more detachments but still want tanks
>>96073407Astartes ambush/forward deployment force focused on disruption/roadbump tactics. Honestly Seekers sound like theyโd be perfect with how much more prevalent status effects and objective capping is, and funnily enough Tarantulaโs seem pretty damn good this edition so Iโd recommend those.
>>96073460no, can volley with heavy and ord
>>96073438Phoenix rapiers just kinda suck compared to what I expected them to be.
They should have been power swords with critical strike(6+), not power swords with shred(6+)!
Oh also phoenix spears arent generic any more for some reason, even though the legion centurion model had one.
Phoenix terminators also look kinda bad. Although the phoenix warden is a bit better since the special ability no longer costs an attack (its just included in the base statline of phoenix terminators). Palatines were buffed though, so thats nice.
>>96073450The WS power glaive is a very tasty weapon. Its also power weapon+ but the power glaive is legitimately insane for its weight class. Ap2 on the charge at initiative, +S, breaching 5+ with no initiative penalty. Its good. Its probably the best of the similar weapons.
>>96073460Implacable advance allows models to use weapons without the assault trait for volley fire.
Don't know what slow and purposeful does yet.
>>96073471I also wanted to restrict the other detachments (or units in detachments) you could take, but couldnt think of any good ideas for this?
>>96073453nta
Is (Heavy FP), +1 shot then?
>>96073432>they fixed a tone of units that were basically unusable before.I would like to know more
>And removing brutal has made another bunch of them immediately better.If they removed Instant Death, then they didn't need to remove Brutal. Fuck can't believe I sort of want Brutal's granular damage back lmao
>>96073465Can't have competition for the nu dread with actual ap2 blast weapons I guess
It's dumb cuz even contemptors can take ap3 blasts now...
>>96073471>tanks upgraded with decurions become command slotsI dont want a DA paladin tank with +1WS
>>96073484Correct. Heavy is +1 to a stat when stationary, ordnance is double a stat
>>96073438Shriekers no longer give -1 to hit, +1i on a charge doesn't work in disordered charge, Eidolon's hammer no longer strikes at initiative, default contemptors no longer have WS5, and outflank RoW is gone.
Anyone got both Fulgrim pages? As well as a dreadnought drop pod?
aaaaaaaaaandddd mic drop...
>>96073498Shriekers do prevent reactions being used against you when charging though. That's quite impactful.
>>96073333Dark Angels have NOTHING but the Terranic Greatsword and units that wield it. I repeat: NOTHING. There are no synergies available other than giving the Terranic Greatsword to every model that can take one.
>>96073478>power swords with critical strike(6+)Wait. Since power swords are naturally Breaching 6+, and Critical Strikes autowound and are considered to have rolled a 6 for wounding, plus +1D, wouldn't a Critical Strike Power Sword be effectively the same as a full on Paragon Blade? AP2 autowound D2 on a 6 to hit.
Old Murderous (what Phoenix blades had) was effectively extra Damage on a 6 to wound. That's NuShred right?
I still don't know why fucking Chainswords have shred. Literally useless against the hordes you should use it on. Literally pointless against the 2+ saves Shred wants to attack.
A schizophrenic weapon with no real target.
Chainswords and Chaplains make me think "No Rerolls" was a last minute call
>>96073504I am very glad I don't use facebook so I don't have to call him a faggot on there
>>96073492which would do fuck all
Do we know what Master of the Legion does? Certainly not Unlock Apex detachment; that's from High Command units
>>96073530Unlocks power fists as an option for tartaros terminators :^)
>>96073485>>96073485>I would like to know moreRed butchers are now rather scary. The change to how weapons affect initiative means they go before the likes of power fists and thunder hammers, and they now take 1 less damage from all sources (as do deathshroud and deathwing companions) to a minimum of one, which effectively doubles their durability vs thunderhammers, lascannons, and everything else you will generally throw at them.
Gorgons are also very tasty now, FNP cant be turned off so theyre rather durable for the cost, and their new axes are the baby cousins of the terranic greatsword, on a 5+ to wound they become AP2 with 2 damage.
Night raptors and Reavers werent unusable before, but they gained a lot of weapon flexibility (can now take thunder hammers).
Lerneans are now WS5 and gained a LOT of weapon options. Now match justaerin.
Palatine blades have bespoke power swords now which are better than normal power swords or charnabal weapons (sort of a mix of the two, + initiative and breaching 5+ but Ap3 base iirc)
>Fuck can't believe I sort of want Brutal's granular damage back lmaoThe new damage mechanic is meant to serve as a replacement. Not granular itself (the damage is all or nothing) but it allows for more granularity without the extra dice rolling of brutal.
>>96073519>That's NuShred right?I believe critical strike is the new murderous blow. Its a lower spike in damage, but it fundamentally represents the same thing, and its generally found on the same weapons (like the paragon blade.
A power sword with critical strike would be comparable to a paragon blade when it crits yes, but theres still every other attack where its ap3 vs ap2. And it was comparable last ed too, on a 6 to wound both the paragon blade and phoenix weapons were ap2 instant death.
Phoenix weapons should be crit strike.
Can models with two melee weapons choose which attacks are made with what weapon, or must the pick a single blade for all of them?
>>96073478wtf are you talking about anon:
>Phoenix rapiersno such thing anymore, palatines have Palatine Blades and they don't have Shred
>phoenix spears arent generic any more for some reasonany sergeant can take it
>phoenix warden is a bit better how is he better? he went from Iron Halo 4++ to 5++ and can no longet take Chainfist to smash everyone else on i2. He also lost Living icons
>>96073540A single weapon for all attacks afaik.
>>96073507That is a change I like; it doesn't mean I'm not going to miss -1 to hit.
>>96073504Itโs hard to differentiate between bait and genuine retardation nowadays
>>96073546>no such thing anymoreAnon its the generic EC weapon. Read your rules.
>any sergeant can take itOh, I need to read the rules. I confused the rapier and spear. I knew you lost one of them.
>how is he better?No longer has the downside of his special rule, he just gets +1WS defensively or offensively for free.
>>96073510>>>96073510>Dark Angels have NOTHINGExcept for ignoring the new force org restrictions near completely and all mental mods beyond -1
>>96073510Synergies are gay and stupid. We're playing a wargame, not MtG.
>>96073348Medic rule is only a reaction, how 3+ save is supposed to stay alive ?
>>96073485>I would like to know moreSome things off the top of my head
Bikes have 2W now, for once you are not paying 20 points for a marine that moves a bit faster. And their twin bolters are actually 2 bolters, not just reroll 1
TSS are 40p base without guns. they actually cost less then tactical marines so even the less damage dealing guns are bearable
Terminators got a lot more resilient. (Assuming they fix the profiles) No brutal makes invulnerable much more useful.
Combat shield being a 5++ in melee makes normal command squads more appealing and even an option for assault squads.
Heavy chainswords actually good on those too.
Veteran split makes the ranged ones
Breachers are cheaper, got Line(1), and the extra models are just 12ppm. Heavy is also actually useful, which it wasn't before. And they can use a reaction to give themselves +1T, which makes them better against lower S weapons, the thing they are supposed to be to begin with. They are a lot more playable imo
Aside from improvements, a lot of units consider too good like dreadnoughts or some legion specific units like falanx warders or suzerains have been knocked down a peg without making them absolutley useless, which is what we usually expect from GW.
>>96073532Does multiple instances stack? So a primarch and a first captain gives 4 reactions?
>>96073592Bikes also have firestorm or whatever it's called, meaning they volley fire at full BS and can choose not to charge after.
>>96073584Thats the neat part
>>96073565Their leadership stats can drop to a minimum of 6, which gives you less than 50% chance of passing
>like 4 different unit entries for the command squads
>they couldn't be bothered to give any consul war gear options
>units dont get anything aside from what's in the box (if your lucky)
Does GW just assume all fans are retarded and cant extrapolate how to create models without their explicit guidance? Is that why the imperial knight kit has 8 different webstore pages despite being one kit?
>>96073565>and all mental mods beyond -1No, thats not how their trait works
DA cannot go below LD6 and reduce the effects of fear(X) to fear(1). They do not, for example, ignore Suppressive(2). You can also reduce their CL, WP or IN as low as you want. Only the LD is capped at a minimum of 6.
Its still a solid trait, means you have at least a 42% chance of passing any LD check and not running away. But its not that good.
>>96073504Some people you just have to ignore because engaging with them would just waste energy and make you feel worse.
At least beating a brick wall is some form of excersise.
>>96073563>Anon its the generic EC weapon. Read your rules.No. You read your rules. There is no Phonix Rapiers anymore anon. The only EC weapon we have is a Phonix Spear.
>No longer has the downside of his special rule, he just gets +1WS defensively or offensively for free.That is a dogshit tradeoff; any WS5 sergeant can now have WS6 with primary advantage while having access to TH. We used to have a guy in 4++ with Chainfist and many, many attacks; now he doesn't even have Icons. The new Phoenix Warden literally has no purpose.
>>96073616>Does GW just assume all fans are retardedThey wouldn't be wrong lmao
>>96073603That's the one other unit!
Also implacable advance so they shoot with non heavy weapons in volley fire
Holly shit now that I think about it no wonder they got meltas taken away. That's 4 plasma shot coming out of each guy as they are
So what's the go with rewards of treachery this edition?
>>96073539>Palatine blades have bespoke power swords now which are better than normal power swords or charnabal weapons (sort of a mix of the two, + initiative and breaching 5+ but Ap3 base iirc)> + initiativeduelist edge doesn't give you +initiative, it's +1 to Focus in Challenges
>>96073616>>they couldn't be bothered to give any consul war gear optionsAside from the master of descent of course. The new consul unit THAT DOESN'T HAVE A MODEL
>>96073616GW understands that TS, SoH, AL, and NL players are high IQ and can handle all the weapon options.
>>96073648Yeah, even a single bike would have been able to do up to 24 damage within melta range on their own lmao.
>>96073616That regular centurions got a a lot of options but consuls didnt is 100% corpo 40k policy in action
>>96073504My weird edge case unit was Veterans with swords.
>>96073510Calibanite Warblade is actually pretty nice this edition with Breaching 5+. But yes, it seems the designers very much wanted you to just spam Companions and Cenobiums using the Deathwing detachment.
>>96073638>Gains the Skill Unmatched Special Rule (see page 137).It seems odd that the rule is not listed in the armory under the upgrade it pertains to instead of on a unit profile. It seems way more intuitive for the unit to refer to the armory instead of the other way around.
>>96073654That was GW's intention yes. Libers will have out of the box units, tactica journals will allow full kitbashing and conversions.
>>96073651>Reward of Treachery arguably gets better>Lerneans already some of the best termies in the edition for the time being
>>96073651Raptors, reavers, justaerin, sekhmet, maybe siege tyrants?
>>96073690>maybe siege tyrants?I don't think so
Too expensive for the 1 missile launcher shot
>>96073685I can believe it. And I dont even think its malicious, in their head its probably "for our benefit", with the libers being "nice and accessible" and the journals being where all the "hardcore" stuff for the "hardcore players" exists.
Im sure theres going to be someone in an office on monday holding his head in his hands confused by why the players are so upset with them.
nice
md5: cadaed5235ff3f7b172a8eddcc2b6055
๐
>>96073651Hard to say, so many good and interesting choices now.
>>96073689Feels good to play AL.
>>96073651Mor Deythan. Insane unit, im astonished no one is talking about them. Turn 1 kill every enemy character in sight.
>>96073672They did this in 2.0. It seems like they wanted to reduce the size of the armory to one page this time. Also, Phoenix termies seem to be the ones who are going to use that rule the most anyway.
>>96073699It was said in the interview articles that this was GW's direction when working on 3.0
But people are retarded. GW could have announced it as many times as they wanted, people don't listen and never read. Only to get outraged over their own misinformed assumptions.
Just a reminder that the mission in
>>96071565 is supposed to represent pic related.
>>96073510I just realized something about this - it requires a Centurion in a prime slot, but doesn't require you to use this prime advantage for that slot. It doesn't even require the model to be a command model. He just has to be in a prime slot and have a bolter. Considering how the rules in general are written, I must assume this is intentional.
I can give one bumblefuck tactical marine in my army a Terranic greatsword now.
>>96073705Cant, you need a movement phase in which you opted not to move in first. It requires an active set up. Turn 2 the soonest. You aren't likely to see the WL turn 1 anyway. Its potent, but highly telegraphed. At least scanners cant counter their shrouded.
>>96073583What the fuck are you even saying here
man why do I have to eat a peril when these assholes fail their reaction?
>>96073736>Cant, you need a movement phase in which you opted not to move in firstSo dont move them turn 1?
Anyone with a character visible (or their unit, if I understand new targeting rules) is in for a bad time.
I hope you worms have your ugly little game stolen and trampled over by 40K retards, who drive you out and then abandon it.
The amount of pure piss you have to have in your soul to look at a game and go, "Oh, all Space Marines? Now THAT sounds good" is eye-watering. Just the absolute most retrograde faglings in all of wargaming, people who eat french fries and coca cola for every meal and would break their teeth on broccoli stalks.
>>96073504I hope this person loses their entire collection.
Figured I might as well throw together a champion for the bearers, if it's anyone whose cool they'll let me use the combat shield and if it's anyone whose not it's not like there's any wargear options to get it confused with lol
>>96073750Least spiteful xenos fag
>>96073458I don't buy that their pre-Heresy rank is strictly the reason why. If so then Shadrak Meduson would be a centurion or something. And Argel Tal and Zardu Layak would be in the same bracket as fellow chapter masters.
>>96073724>reduce the size of the armory to one pageIs that why DG lost their alchem flamers?
>>96073727I still remember how incredible this short story was the first time I read it.
>>96073760Centurions and consuls have a 5+ invulnerable save by default already, so the combat shield literally adds nothing.
>>96073761(introducing yourself on a first date [but only on Discord])
"Yes, I have lots of hobby. Have you heard of the game Brothercest Galaxy?"
>>96073762Only one of them is high command, probably because that way you can take them all or two of them.
>>96073750Bait used to be believable.
>>96073770Combat shields add 1 to focus rolls. That's literally it. That and not needing yo go find a right handed serpenta
>Make an edition where you're encouraged to take more consuls
>Take away all the consuls, HQ and legion specific wargear options and make them boring.
What did GW mean by this?
>>96073796Youre encouraged to take more CENTURIONS, not consuls.
>>96073768I have a feeling they'll reintroduce the Mortus Poisoner Squad in some journal for money, for DG players to buy new guys with flamers.
>>96073322>>Erebus, Kor Phaeron and Zardu Layak have IN 7
>entirety of mech is ws/bs3
AAAAIIIIIEEEEE
>>96073748>Random bullshit, GOWhat the fuck is that detachment?
>>96073805Anon they were an exemplary battles unit.
>>96073824so were the IF terminators with shields and they're in the book
>>96073822Quite good actually. Its an easy elites slot alongside some transport for them.
>>96073805gw is taking the old world approach where they sell each faction dlc units and "teach" you how to kitbash them (with official tm kits of course)
>>96073822The speeder icon is just fast attack, so probably a xiphon since fluffwise the legion fields xiphons and land raiders the most
>>96073780Might be but the BotP detachment already takes care of that and even if it didn't no such concern seems to have factored in for other legions like the WB I mentioned
>>96073830Huscarls are not in the book. They were also afaik not exemplary battles but legacy.
The IF units in the book are templar brethren and phalanx warders.
The exemplary battles units were if I remember correctly:
Mortis poisoners
That salamander rotor cannon unit
Red hand destroyers.
Nemesis destroyers.
Dark sons of death (lots of destroyers huh?)
Ophanim court.
Sanguinary guard.
Atramentar.
Morlocks
>>96073832I think I'm viewing auxullary detachments like formations where I believe all the units are related to each other and aren't just options to include units you want.
>>96073850dont forget sunkillers the objectively better substitute for lascannon squads
>>96073863Oh yea, I meant to put them down and just didnt. Theyre from the dark sons of death battle too iirc.
>>96073852Well, it might be a troops unit acting as the coordinator for an elite armored assault company with supporting fast attack elements). So still "elite squad with transport", except theres a xiphon or some land speeders running CAS and some tactical marines there to help coordinate or bring up the rear or whatever.
>>96073850>>96073863Reaver chieftains
Word Bearer gene-seed looters
Ifrit
The other Sallies with combis
Deliverers
That weird flamerspam Space Wolf squad
Numerologists
image
md5: 91b3973d03da55030dbb4b5c721cf3d0
๐
>>96073832A flyer, tacticals, sekhmet who are for some reason Elite and not heavy assault and a land raider. Quite neat I think
>>96073384>>96073419Stop making want to build models for this shitty edition.
I searched the last 6 threads or so but can't find normal cataphractii - I am sure I saw them these days. Anyone has the page?
>>96073824That won't stop GW from making money on your love of alchem flamers.
>>96073890so they can sell you their rules in a future book along with a new plastic kit
>>96073750Eh, I'm not here for space marines. I'm here for the mechanicum.
I just wanted Power Scythes to be good, but they are Power Axes that give +2A when the whole unit is outnumbered. And power axes themselves went from AP2 i1 to AP3 i3 Rend 5
>>96073883>Armored transport containing sekhmet breaks through the enemy lines after xiphons weaken the defenses and target key weapons platforms>tactical squad follows through the breach to claim and hold the territoryI think it checks out.
>>96073890Because they want to put them in a journal. It has to be. The rules are perfectly set up for them, they still exist and are mentioned in the lore. It HAS to be because theyre going to release some journal with a bunch of destroyer stuff, maybe as part of zone mortalis?
>>96073841>that detachbro you need to read it. it requires fulgrim transfigured
>>96073890Right-handed bolt pistols are proscribed technology
>>96073818Every tech priest can buff those 3s to 4s.
The whole army seems to be test priests wrangling their automata.
>>96073908Power axes are decent as far as power weapons go. You have 50% less Ap than before, but you also go before 90% of Ap2 weapons (and at the same time as terranic greatswords, which are also breaching 5+).
Deathsroud still kill power armor very well, but now have a better shot of fighting terminators.
>>96073891It was posted 3 times in the last thread . . .
>>96073321Yer mum's fanny tastes of liquorice.
>>96073890They're being saved for one of the upcoming softback journals. It'll return Destroyers and Mortis Destroyers as core legion units, as well as adding Dark Sons of Death, Red Hand Destroyers, Nemesis Destroyers, Mortus Poisoners, and Sanctifiers.
Or they were removed because there's no bespoke plastic kit and no plan for a bespoke plastic kit. No models, no rules.
>>96073925I've read that you can only apply that buff once a turn max
>>96073904Didn't Mechanicum come like 12 years into the game's existence...?
>>96073733The paragraph above it says it has to be selected for a Centurion, no? This means neither Optae nor Praetors (who don't get Primes themselves wtf) can be Paladins
How many reactions per game, now? I hear some reactions cost multuple points
ok guys hear me out
If you take a council, he unlocks one detachment.
If you take a normal centurion, he unlocks two detachments, right?
If that centurion is upgraded with prime advantage to Phoenix Guy or Paladin Guy, he is still a centurion, right? Does he still unlock two detachments?
>>960739521 base
1 for 1500-3500 points
1 for taking a master of the legion
>>96073733>>96073946Are you really going to do this
>>96073890Because they're going to sell the rules back to players at a later date.
>>96073957As far as we understand, yes
>>96073957Yes. That's a function of him being a command slot + having the officer of the line, not of what his unit type or prime benefit is
>>96073755I hope this person gets into an accident that results in a motorcycle's drive wheel mulching their crotch against a kerb until it's paste.
>>96073934>No models, no rules.[raptors laughing]
[tartaros crying]
>>96073539>believe critical strike is the new murderous blowWait anon, Critical Strike is better than Murderous. Old Murderous X+ was on a Wound of X. That's what Shred does now.
Critical is on a Hit of X. That's better, as it is a single hit roll instead of first a hit roll then a wound roll.
>>96073981Old murderous strike just killed a dude. Crits and shred just give +1 damage.
>>96073967>>96073972Thanks. That council/prime advantage thing was a bit mixed up in my mind since previously these guys were consuls.
>>96073941They were in one of the first black books in 1.0 you absolute tourist
>>96073616There are actually a depressing number of comments on the learn to play video along the lines of
>sorry Corpo-daddy it still big hard make headmeat hurtywurty pwease make easier like 40gay too many options me am confoozedand I'm quite certain at least a few of them are genuine.
>>96073725So sorry, I assumed the articles were written in English where
>we're making a few tweaks but it's fundamentally the same and you can keep using your existing armies*doesn't* actually translate into
>we're invalidating anywhere up to 2/3 of your army in direct proportion to how much of a hobbyist you are, with more hobbying getting more punishmentrather than the Morontard dialect of Dumfuckistani.
>>96073592>Bikes have 2W nowBooo they should be T5 instead of 2W. It's always been that way. I'm seething :(
>Heavy is also actually useful, which it wasn't beforeNah, it's mere +1 Coolness isn't it? Rerolling armour saves vs blasts (they were all AP4) was better
>>96073698Bro, each guy is half a dozen breaching pinning shots, or a S9 D2 missile. They are GOOD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujr7hgD1DyQ
"I am playing this game for over a decade now for living [...] I have a lot of gaming experience and I have the [HH3] book for quite some while [...] and I can't fully understand it yet"
lmao - I don't have that experience and I want games to be simple (to play and explain, because people I play with play like boardgames). Guess I won't buy this shitty edition.
Any news on solar aux not being dogshit in 3.0? I beg for any news.
>>96074067Who cares about the NPC armies?
:^)
>>96074067So far all we have is a scuffed pic of the table of contents that shows which units will belong where
>No auroxI know that's gonna be a legacy but relegating it to that is very gay GW
>>96074081I do because I find marines rather boring but want to get into HH because I hate 40k post 7th. I was put off by them being terrible and insanely expensive in 2.0 . I donโt need them to be top tier, just not dogshit.
>>96074067Goonhammer has a decent look at them, I only skimmed it but they seemed not as shit as 2nd.
>>96074089Nice Einhyr Hearthguard.
>>96073504Holy shit the comments on that group make me want to strangle someone.
>>96074019>we're invalidating anywhere up to 2/3 of your army in direct proportion to how much of a hobbyist you are, with more hobbying getting more punishmentHoly fucking shit this is it
>>96074089I know a cult of paint paintjob when I see it
Once again the theorem that these models don't actually look bad when they're done by someone that isn't the eavy metal team is proven true
>>96074112I've been trying to tell the people the same thing about GW faces, but no one listens.
>>96073873Or it's just another prime troop squad with an elite squad also (are sehkmet elite or retinue?). And a land raider for support
>>96073940You can only attempt to apply the buff on an individual unit once per turn. Meaning you get one chance at BS 4 on any individual Thanatar. Its an int test tech magic thing you see.
This means you can't just have every techpriest try to buff the same unit until one works BUT each techpriest can try and buff a different unit.
>>96073908I wasn't given up on power scythes until I learned they don't work in challenges.
If a character joins 3 deathshroud and the enemy character in 10 justaerin challenges you, you have to either decline and lose all your WS and your whole unit strikes last or you have to accept and lose the entire bonus of the scythe and just get assfucked by GW in the challenge.
>>96074089Looks like a repurposed construction robot now.
>>96074067all i know so far is sentinel command sections and tank commanders
>>96073932Something new I said.
>>96074125Do we know if tech priest auxilia still have to have a minimum of 4 servo automata? I have plenty of priests,but only 18servo Automata...
>>96073941Thats solar auxilia. Mechanicum have been in HH for a long ass time. The aux were one crazy sculptors passion project that the team thought looked really cool.
Does Zedekai sound too much like a dark angel's name for a word bearer?
>>96074105>>96074002we've been overrun by consoomers
40k wasn't enough to contain them
>>96074054Nobody, and I mean absolute nobody who does battlereport videos does the rules right. Ever. There's always multiple fundamental rules errors made. Some troon on YT not understanding the rules is nothing new, they can't even get 40k right.
>Can just straight up give 20 tacticals/full outrider/jetbike squads expendable (2)
God damn, Line (3) Expendable (2) is pretty sick for a legionary squad. Means Vanguard (2) units like terminators will accomplish dick by killing them.
>>96074166>Means Vanguard (2) units like terminators will accomplish dick by killing them.That's still a win for DA
>>96073504Actual fucking ape.
>>96074136no the servo automata got stuffed into their own unit and the techpriests are like 30 point taxes to attach to automata to let them react and score
>>96074067The game is balanced around a 3+ save. Everything but small arms fire is AP4 so you're never getting your armour save. If the auxilia are priced with that in mind they'll probably be alright. If they're not they'll be in the dog house for another edition for the AP2 blast related warcrimes of 1.0
I developed AIDS from scouring the Discord
Even FB has more level-headed takes about the new edition
>>96074152Even decent ones like Winters get rules wrong from time to time
>>96073941No faction came 12 years later into HH. That's when first edition ended and second edition at most just split talons into custodes and SoS. Mech was in book 1 as an ordo reductor allied detachment, book 2 as a cybernetica main army and book 3 as a generic mechanicum one. Nearly every book after that added units for mech.
>>96073822>Prime Troops>Fast Attack>Elites>Heavy TransportOne of the best detachments in the game.
>>96074002So these are the people they removed the options to appeal to?
Fucking braindamaged redditors.
>>96074138SA came in book 4, 3 years after the HH game was first released.
>>96074148Need to add a epithet like the wise for that added bite.
>>96074067This guy always shares too much which is great for us
https://spruesandbrews.com/2025/07/12/liber-auxilia-review-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-3rd-edition/
50 points for 10 lasrifles, lol
>>96074002I've personally met people saying that in the LGS. Yes, they are real.
>>96074093>What's missing>Companion/Lifeward SectionsMan..
>>96073946No, it says if a Centurion "is selected to fill a Prime Force Organization Slot, the following Prime Advantage can be selected." It doesn't specify selected for this slot or for a centurion or a command model or anything that restricts it to that particular model in that unit in that slot that unlocked it.
It makes no distinction about who it is selected for, aside from it being once per army for one model in a unit selected to fill a prime force organization slot with this prime advantage that has a bolter, and fuck it if GW is going to write their rules this autisticly, I'm going to go full talmudic interpretation on it. It seems the Dark Angel thing to do.
>>96074112Cult of paint love deleting aquilas as well, and in this case I don't blame them lol
>>96074148No, sounds fine.
>>96074178Ah damn that's sweet as hell I've got like 19 tech priest minis but only 9 painted because it was hard enough getting 8 of the FW servo Automata and 10 3rd party servitors
>>96074181the hysterics are so out of proportion
i am really tired of the faggy fanbase
>>96073937NTA but I thought this was a picture of a greek marble sculpture of a woman's body from the thumbnail, not a page of the rulebook.
Illegal loadout in the motherfucking core rulebook
>>96074192>Aux get a tank commander but Marines don't
>>96074208it's very retarded that GW touted that there are no tax units in 3e now but mech get saddled with even more character taxes than the rest
>>96074216Same and I can't shake it, no matter how many times it gets posted.
>>96074206Incredibly based
I never got the designers obsession with plastering aquilas everywhere, probably some marketing or trademark bullshit behind it.
>>96074232I'm sure this is intentional as well and not a mistake at all.
>>96074232Seems like a pretty justifiable reason to run them with fists
"The rules show I can"
I preordered Saturnine, ask me anything.
>>96074000I would kill myself if I was a tourist to the worst game GW has ever conceived, in the gayest possible brotherfaggot frottage wrestling sub-era of the setting.
I am an indigenous local, haunting the yuppies who call people tourist.
>>96074254Why did you betray The Emperor?
>>96074213A good part of people's armies are now illegal to run because GW decided to be jewish fags, being pissed is justified.
>>96074054Experience cannot make up for Steve having Ogryn-level native intelligence.
>>96074192Holy shit you weren't kidding, he ready did overshare. This kind of peek is exactly what I needed
>Sentinel command squadFuck yeah
>Veletaris getting vanguard (3)Fuck YEAH
>>96074216I thought I was the only one!
https://spruesandbrews.com/2025/07/12/liber-questoris-review-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-3rd-edition/
That is a thing of the past in Liber Questoris with the new Knight Detachment allowing for 4 Lords of War. Youโre not allowed any allies or external Lords of War here (so no taking a Titan along with a Knight force), but each of these 4 slots is a prime slot, which can be used to give each Knight a different household rank โ weโll look at these in more detail shortly, but 4 of the ranks unlock Additional Detachments allowing you to add more units to your army.
If you take a Scion Aspirant then you unlock a detachment with 4 Armiger slots. This allows you to still take Armigers while limiting the Armiger spam we saw last edition.
Taking a Scion Marshal unlocks an additional two Lord of War slots, allowing you to lean into an army of just big Knights
Preceptor Ranks unlocks a new detachment of Mechanicum robots โ this allows you to take a unit of each of the following โ Domitars, Castellax (The standard Bolter loadout only), Vorax and Vultarax. This is very cool for those like me that love these robotic beauties and gives you some variety on the battlefield.
Finally Lord Scions unlock a detachment of Solar Auxilia containing two Troops slots, 2 Heavy Transport slots, a Recon slot and an Elite slot โ opening up a lot of options to put feet on the ground for your army.
Can anyone who owns an Acheron measure the size of those fuel tanks on the back of it? I realize they're huge, but I was wondering if I could fit them on a Dreadnought.
>>96074271Happy to hear SA bros are getting excited. The army was such a joke in 2.0
>>96074273Each Knight added to your army gets a choice of one of 10 different ranks, and they each grant bonuses on top of any detachment additions mentioned above.
Seneschals are limited to 1 per army and reduce incoming damage by 1, which is really nice โ but they give up Slay the Warlord when destroyed
Lord Scions are limited to 1 per army and can make 2 repairs a turn
Scion Arbalester is limited to 1 per army and allows the Knight to get the benefit of staying still when it moves half movement
Scion Aspirants are Expendable, so give away less points if killed turn 1
Aucteller are limited to 1 per army and have Precision 5+ on their melee weapons
Scion Dolorous are limited to 1 per army and cause Fear (2)
Scion Implacable are limited to 1 per army and gain Firestorm, allowing them to Volley Fire at full BS
Scion Martial represents the average Knight, and so offers no additional benefit.
Preceptors are limited to 1 per army and gain Battlesmith (2) and an Intelligence of 8
Scion Uhlan are limited to 1 per army and gain Fast (2) and Impact (A), which increases their rush and charge distance and gives them an extra attack on the charge
>>96074232>>96074252For all we know, that's a Tartaros Fister Terminator, an entirely different unit that we've yet to see rules for. If pictures were in any way related to unit entries, Tartaros terminators would look like Saturnine Terminators.
>>96074254Why are you gay?
can someone explain to a struggling AL beginner why i would ever take Headhunters over more Seekers? Banestrikes got more shots but Kraken Bolters just seem straight up better, Hatred(Command) and Precision tied to the dudes instead of the guns seems nice but not really worth
>>96074282Knight Questoris
The standard stock Knight with a whole range of different weapons available to it, making it easy to fit these out for different tasks. They are now a little more fragile than they used to be with only armour 11 on the rear, meaning that even Strength 6 weaponry has a chance of penetrating it.
Ion shields now give a 5+ save to the front and 6+ save to the rear, but also gives them another 5+ save against glancing hits too, really meaning you need to pile on the penetrating hits to kill them. They have 10 wounds, but when things like the Thermal Lance can do 8 wounds at close range you still need to be really careful with them
Are their rules for allies? Taking some robots with your marines
Anybody got the Saturnine termie pages? Praetor, command squad, grunt squad.
>>96074300Yea sure, those are theirs.
>>96074290Infiltrating multimelta
>>96074260he was mean to my dad
>>96074287just a fan of dicks I guess
>>96074290Infiltrating multimeltas.
Seekers don't each have a power dagger.
ok, I checked the rulebook and can't find the rules for "Overload" anywhere. Can someone point me in the right direction? is it in the libers? didi they simply forget to write the rule? (I know what it does but can't find it written anywhere ^^' )
>>96074258>I am an indigenous local, haunting the yuppies who call people tourist.
>>96073504>Destroyers>Been a core unit since the first edition of heresy>"Weird edge case units"The fact that we no longer throw people like this into a pit with lions, is why society as a whole is doomed.
>>96074277It's not worth it, bro
>>96074307>>96074313>used to have 5 combi meltas>only 1 in 5 multimelta leftdamn
>>96074319It wasn't even looking like a good edition before we got the Librer leaks.
>>96073929Deathshroud are fine. They didn't get the +1A other termies got (and lost 1W), but they have Eternal Warrior and got markedly cheaper, which is fine.
But power axes could afford being AP2 (especially now they don't get +1A), and Reaping 2 is definitely not worth +10 pts.
>>96074127How would you fix Power Scythes? Fix their stats; they have to remain +10 pts
>>96074232They're mocking you.
>>96074089Where do the guy's legs go, fr?
>>96073565You're wrong about ignoring mental mods beyond -1
You're wrong about the "wings" offering anything of value besides Deathwing because spoiler alert, that's where you can get more Terranic Greatswords
>>96074363God I hate how it looks
I look at it and see a toy not a war machine
>>96074384>a toy not a war machineThat's all dreadnoughts.
>>96074345The multi-meltas were the most useful anyway. Only drooling idiots would let you infiltrate close enough to get use out of the combi-meltas.
>>96074358They don't care enough to mock us, it's literally copy+paste and AI slop
Is there any leaks or news for the solar auxilia ?
What do you think is wrong with the rules / your legion's rules?
How would you fix it?
>>96074363>The dick plate opens up and extends a little power sword
>>96074390I hope you get raped by a boxnought
>>96074121Sekhmet are elite. Retinue is for command unit type stuff.
>>96074405They removed my wargear options.
I would fix it by not removing shit arbitrarily, because as opposed to GW I'm not a dickhead.
>>96074357>But power axes could afford being AP2Disagree, I-1 +1S Ap2 is way too strong for a normal power weapon. Legatine axes arent that good and theyre a legion special weapon reserved for suzerains and characters.
>dont get +1AAlmost all melee units gained an attack though.
>reaping 2 is not worth 10ptsOn deathshroud? it probably is. 10pts for +2A is very good.
We are still suffering for the sins of Chapterhouse.
Have we seen Myrmidons or a Archmagos/On Abeyant yet?
Even the ads make it look like the edition is a plane crash
>>96074411Oh that detachment is pretty hot then. Get your sehkmet with a standard centurion.
>>96074440no, we are not
chapterhouse is a GW and GW shill excuse for shitty practices
GW are not forced to remove options from units, that is their decision
>>96074192>Veletarii are vanguard 3 when terminators are vanguard 2.
Has anyone seen the Iron Warriors rules from the new Liber? I'm pretty sure they've been leaked already.
>>96074405I just find it very hard to care when I have the black books and several homebrews for them. There isn't much that can be fixed, I don't like the new models, the newly rewritten core rules, the new army lists and the way the fluff has been written. Keep in mind I warned everyone when 2.0 got released that this is what would happen.
>>96074405I think the FOC and detachments could be hybridized
>Primary Detachment - usually but not always Crusade FOC. No mandatory slots. Every slot filled unlocks a Secondary Detachment.>Secondary Deatchments are basically the same as Apex/Auxiliary Detachments but don't unlock more.>there are also Allied Primary Detachments which unlock Allied Secondary Detachments
>>96074232i have hope thats a typo or that the loadouts are still legal and will come as dlcs in the journals
>>96074487>GW are not forced to remove options from units, that is their decisionYes, in the same way that everything that isnt an absolute legal compulsion is a decision.
The chapterhouse case means that if GW does not release a model for something that has rules then someone else can make a model for it legally. Not only that it opens up the door for GW to be sued if they then make a model for that thing. That is not a position any company of GWs scale can afford to put itself in.
Yes, GW is not technically forced to care about this, they can always just carry on and leave this giant economic and legal liability around. But you can also technically not come to work whenever you want, you arent forced to.
>>96074520I suppose that I walked right into that one. I would appreciate the relevant images then.
>>96074473Accurate atleast
>>96073471Just take a couple commad rhinos as HQs
That's enough for like 9 other tanks
>No rules that stops units disembarking from a flyer on a drop mission
Hmmmmmmmmm...
>brass scorpion doesnt have armour values
>ITS TOUGHNESS 18
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
>>96074538>take command rhinos instead of your cool master of armour tankno.
I got to see the saturnine praetor in person today, he looks better, he is a lot rounder in person and it makes the armour looks more like a maxamalist tech monstrocity.
>>96074540How many attacks?
Which one of you turds reported the mega yesterday? I've been looking all over for the saturnine unit profiles.
>>96074548dont know
but its 2+/5++ EW1 and can just leave combat for free, it cant be locked in combat (allegedly S10 Damage 3 attacks)
>>96073592TSS lost the 20pt squad tax, but are actually more expensive per marine. They stopped being shit because they can score now, now because of the price.
>>96074540I hope you realize how retarded you sound considering that not only can nothing in the game wound T18, it's not even represented on the wound chart so the system would break down. That's its number of wounds dumb fuck
>Everyone got fucked over because their hqs got gutted
>tfw I got fucked over because I only had one HQ which was a cnturion with just a boltgun
>>960745552 sources have said it has 15 wounds
so its clearly not the wounds
>The first Lord of War in the book is the Brass Scorpion, which is an absolute power house with toughness 18, 15 wounds and a 2+ save with 5+ inv and Eternal Warrior reducing incoming damage by 1 itโs going to be tough to put down. As youโd imagine itโs loaded with weapons and with the Unstoppable rule can just walk out of combat
>>96073290 (OP)Ebon Keshig still ws 4 is dog shit.
>>96074551it was posted all over FB and various discord id be shocked if GW themselves didnt flag it
>>96074523That's not how copyright works.
>>96074030No one ised blast so it never came up
No one used breacher either with how expensive they were
>Charging in the same turn as arriving from reserves is allowed
>Even with Outflank
>No restriction on number of units arriving per turn
Seems like it's only Deep Strike that got fucked.
>>96074047I dont remember the frag missiles being that good at all. Maybe I didn't read correctly.
The other is just a lass canon shot, which is good but not 300p good imo.
>>96074555>>96074561Its probably toughness 8 (or 10, which does kinda look like 18) and not 18. Because yes, toughness currently caps at 10, theres a chart.
>>96074577Yes, because other forms of entering from reserves arent "place your unit anywhere you want on the battlefield"
>>96074523im pretty sure they own the rights to the space marine design so idk why that would be an issue for having different options for squads and characters but im not a copyright lawyer
>>96074598Im specifically talking about the chapterhouse situation. Which is why they stopped having units with no official model.
>Walrus just banned posting leaks in troonoptica
Did his handler just spank his nuts?
Anyone have the auxilia stuff to throw around, i heard the blast charger got shafted and the army lost what used to be good options in 2.0
>>96074604Must have, they are trying so fucking hard to be dismissive of people who are pissed off about this, its fucking wild.
Would the 40k abbadon model be a good basis for a tartaros praetor conversion?
>oh gee they just forgot the wargear entries! honest mistake!
>oh gee it's all going to come back in pdfs! just wait and see!
lol
>>96074614It's dead on arrival, they've fucked it
>>96074523That's not how it works at all you fucking retarded GW cocksucker, they do it because execs are retardedly greedy and don't want anyone else to "profit" from their franchise and ip's in any way by producing things they are too lazy and inept to produce themselves.
But I'm sure you already know this and are just here to shit up the thread.
Go back to the catalog nigger.
>>96074604>>96074614He told me privately to call the police.
>>96074635I heard last night that a lot of the major retailers were not even selling out of preorders even with the 15% discount on it.
IDK how true that is.
But the pano discord is fucking hilarious, every time one of their mods tries to be dismissive or try and hand wavium the situation they just get shit on and then fall back to acting like they are just being civil or just saying xyz and acting like they are not just dismissing people who have been playing this game for fucking ever.
>>96074629>oh gee it's all going to come back in pdfs! just wait and see!Those ones are the funniest.
>>96074636Yes anon, companies are run by cartoon baddies who are driven by abstract greed and make decisions not for personal/company benefit but because it will stop someone else having something. I do want to read your socialist literature!
No, when a company does something its because it (at least believes it) will benefit from doing so, or suffer from not doing it. GW isnt cracking down on non-model entries because they are the one company in the world that runs on greedonomics, but because there is a literal economic and legal benefit to them doing so, because the alternative is a liability.
>>96074646they also ban people for "too much negativity" with no due process or telling the person to cut it out first
"whats that? you're unhappy about this edition and are rightfully stating your reasons why? WELL I DONT WANT TO SEE THAT SO IM GONNA BAN YOU"
>>96074657Yeah its hilarious I got banned once because of some shit I said that they did not approve of.
That discord is kind of in full rebellion mode its fucking great. I don't remember the guys name but the one with the Solar Aux PfP is probably the biggest condescending faggot of all of them.
First they came for Fantasy Battles
And I did not speak for I do not play Fantasy Battles
Then they came for 40K
And I did not speak for I do not play 40K
Then they came for Kill Team
And I did not speak for I do not play Kill Team
Then they came for Epic
And I did not speak for I do not play Epic
Then they came for Heresy
And there was no one left to speak for me
Leaker anon the aux rules pls, cuck warus decided to kill any aux leaks that where being trickled into the chats
>>96074501fucking retarded
>>96074604>>96074646>>96074657Just your average preddit and discord mods being themselves then.
Those types are always such fucking bottom of the barrel power tripping hugbox cunts.
>>96074192>Ultima Cohorts get one free reaction for rifles every phase. Not turn, PHASE.>Solar Cohorts turn Dracos into assault transports.>Recon Cohorts let cavalry control objectives>Mechanised Cohorts actually just steal the deathguard legion rule.>siege Cohorts make all barrage attacks with pinning +1 point harder to resist>Iron Cohorts can bring castellax, Thallax and tech priests, also give all rifles expendable 1 (lol)>every specialist HQ gives their associated units a different buff.>line command sections give all infantry +1 line.>Veletaris Command Sections give all Veletarii a 5+ FnP against reaction attacks and volley fire>Artillery command sections reduce scatter on barrage weapons.>command tanks make nearby allied tanks auto repair 4+>Recon command sections give nearby sentinels volley fire at full ballistic skill.The usability of many of these rules may be questionable but it still amazes me that the Auxilias Consul equivalents have special gimmicks to buff their associated units to give you a reason to take over the tac command (which is a centurion equivalent) meanwhile many legion consuls are just fucking wargear loadouts.
Also the Auxilia of all people get cavalry command squads while every legion bike character gets his wheels impounded. Thats hilarious.
ALSO also the damn aetheon heavy sentinel is the only warmachine in the game which can be deployed in units of 1-3.
The absolute state of the legiones astartes.
>>96074646damn you'd think James workshop was paying for their HRT or something
WHY IS EVERYTHING A BLOODY REACTION NOW
>>96074357Scythes should just choose each melee between Scythe (sweep) - Reaping 2-3
Scythe (strike) - Thunderhammer stats
Points cost can be same as a thunderhammer.
>>96074583maybe its a misprint?
>>96073290 (OP)>All my now 1 A powerfist/power sword sgts in my tac squads
>>96074523Somehow wasn't a problem in 2.0
>>96074675Not like people don't complain, it's just that no matter what you do GW doesn't care.
If you try to express your concerns to them they just shut down any method of communication and tries to make sure the discontent doesn't spread instead of doing the bare minimum to fix the problems.
>>96074646Some dumbfuck shills were trying to cope that it hasn't sold out because it was 3am, but it released on 9pm and it hasn't sold out even 17 hours later.
>Veletaris rotor cannons are squated
>Aux seem to only have 1 gambit
>Aurox to legacies
So its looking like SA with some marine allies for mobility and 3+ is the meta
SA stuff:
Vel axes now im -1, s+2 AP3 D1 breaching/shred 5+ (2 attacks now)
lasrifles rng 30 1 shot str 3 ap 6 d1 heavy(fp)
blast charger r18 1 shot str 4 ap 4 rending/shred 6+
It's joever.
>>96074646>>96074657Check this out. They're now banning people for posting leaks as an indirect form of damage control, lol.
>>96074709Holy fuck....what site is that i wanna see it myself.
>>96074725This troon and his troonlets are fucking seething lol.
>>96074722and we may have to pay for chargers again, even with them being far worse
not to mention with the kill of many options we not looking hot
Just got off the phone with my closest LGS.
Nearly every single reservation has been cancelled. If they don't move enough inventory by the end of next month, the boxes will put on sale at a steep discount just to get rid of them.
>>96074739If true and you are not just shit posting, tis skaventide all over again.
>>96074739for sure they'll be 30-50% off in next few months, it objectively sold like 1/3rd the boxes as Skaventide's launch with similar bulk arriving at the main stores.
The stores that only cautiously ordered 2 copies are fine, but the ones that got a stack of 50 are going to have to fire sale them.
>>96074744>>96074751As someone who's never touched AoS, what was the big issue with the Skaventide launch? Just overproduction? Bad rules?
>>96074646Iโm not trying to cope. I think 3.0 is a travesty and donโt think anyone should buy the saturnine box. But 15% off is the standard third party discount for all products, not a sale due to poor demand. Do you only buy from GW that you donโt know this?
I'm kinda glad 3.0 flopped.
/hhg/ would usually get 1-2 threads a week now we get 1-2 threads a day.
>>96074725The sales of the saturnine boxset are clearly directly financing Troon the walrus's HRT.
>>96074740did he eat his hat ?
>>96074722>im -1, s+2 AP3 D1 breaching/shred 5+Lmao theyre basically terranic greatswords.
>>96074618No, waaaaaaaay too large. Like, that model makes half the primarchs in HH look small.
>>96074766Bad rules iirc i dropped outta AoS after trying to give it the college go. I heard that apparently now its not half bad, but they burned to many bridged to retain players.
>ONE MAN, ALONE, BETRAYED BY HIS DISCORD SERVER has destroyed the hype and hope of the new edition of a major wargame from THE major wargame company
Never let anyone tell you that one person can't change the world.
>>96074766I'm not a AoS player nor someone who actively follows it, but it was mostly the rules IIRC. A lot of units were also excluded in the most recent edition of AoS.
>>96074739And your uncle works at Nintendo too? Incredible!
>>96074772i'll still hold him to it but he can have a few weeks yet to work up to it if he needs it
>>96074768I think its a travesty, but to answer your other question, when i used to buy direct and not based china recasters, we were not a big enough city to support a store that could offer 15% discounts OR if they did, they basically ran super fucking lean and hardly kept anything in stock.
So i used to pretty much only get through the one GW store we had.
>>96074722>Lasrifles are 1 shot str 3 but they get 2 shots if you don't movelol
Something that i noticed, aren't tercios kind of small? if dracosan weren't heavy transports they would be worse than rulebook detachments.
55e
md5: ba6dfa3044c6bdbc2d5e95fa0ac34377
๐
>>96074710Its a fun gambit tho, the aux get bullied by space marines in melee but their gambit let's them forgo melee entirely and just shoot their pistols instead.
Auxilia marshals are BS5 and can take inferno pistols. Odds of hitting and wounding a Praetor with an inferno pistol are roughly 2/3, then your opponent rolls a successful invulnerable save or they take 6 damage and die.
>>96074777Are you sure? he doesent seem THAT big. Maybe im just coping.
>>96074783We should all aspire to his greatness
>>96074766they put enough models they thought 100% of players would buy the box, even though not 100% of people want skaven armies. The new AOS edition is just shitty and bland and unfun like Horus Heresy 3.0, so many communities just died out. The savings in the big box are good "ooh I can get a few skaven cheap" but it comes like 1/3rd of a rat army for ~$100 half and the other 2/3rds you buy in tiny boxes like 3 rat ogors for $60 so the cost to make the ACTUAL army is like $500 instead of $100. I bought the skaventide box and it comes with enough minis to do 2 "spearhead skirmish armies" (smaller side-game which has no customization whatever, you just play exactly 1 army) so the few customers who bought skaventide decided instead of spending $1000 to finish their stormfag and skaven into AOS armies, they'd just keep the $170-200 skaventide box and not play AOS at all. There's plenty to paint inside the box already, doing 500 more rats wouldn't be any better.
End result of AOS flopping and people choosing not to continue into full armies was the first 1/3rd or 1/2 of skaventide moved fast, then the second half could never be sold, and because it flopped that meant scalpers had to dump their stocks on amazon/ebay/fbook for prices lower than the stores, preventing stores even harder.
>>96074783the guy is a hero, thanks to that a lot of people could cancel their pre orders.
>>96074794Anon. Inferno pistols are damage 1 base. Im sorry to tell you this, but at melta range they just deal 2 damage.
>>960748012.0 forever baybee
>>96074797Yeah, you're coping.
Good news from Canada. The customers from this store tend to be the biggest paypigs in the city. Even here it flopped hard.
>goonhammer in full copium mode
Is the sky actually falling?
>>96074814Over here the saturnine box is sold out on several sites. Not an english speaking country though, so most likely people didn't pay as much attention to the online shitstorm.
>>96074800* probably gonna repeat with saturnine. Half of these pathetic sales figures are probably scalpers/hoarders putting new boxes on their shelf just in-case there's some magical shortage because they remember making a fortune on 40k primaris Indomitus launch box. But when they realize GW is just printing infinite saturnine boxes for a game not popular like 40k, many of the hoarders will have to dump their spare boxes for a discount (and when prices fall that makes other scalpers ditch to "beat the drop")
>'Veletaris Command Section: Unlocks the corresponding detachment and also provides the special rule called Hold the Line. This rule grants Veletaris units a Feel No Pain (5+) against any wounds suffered as part of a Reaction or Volley Attack. This is big, as itโs easy for say your Storm Section to be gun-downed whilst they charge into a unit."
TRUST IN KAISER LOHENGRAM!!!....I mean the Emperor...
>>96074823sold out doesn't mean something is popular. It just means the few stores in your country paid attention and ordered 3 boxes instead of 50 boxes of this flop.
Several stores here did likewise, but the ones who actually ordered a stack were unable to move it.
>>96074819no quite the opposite as best i wager
this is very much a partial bucking off of gw's bullshit entirely by a hobby group
>>96074815I have zero trust in GW not doing this exact thing next "edition" even if they reintroduce all the things they threw away for no reason at all.
Honestly haven't had any trust in them for a long time, but I thought the HH team was atleast a bit different, turns out it's literally the same shitheads who fucked up 40k in charge now.
>>96074833>sold out doesn't mean something is popularThen why is everybody so obsessed with the box not being sold out in a day?
>>96074797Bigger than Curze here...
>>96074841Yeah Iโd hoped that old world and Horus heresy were just ran by a smaller team but someone seems to have stepped in to smack them into line
Don't tell the copers that just because sonething doesn't sell out in five minutes that doesn't make it a flop, doubly so whennits an unlimited print run so FOMO isn't a thing.
>>96074842Because thatโs the metric of success now a days going off how many releases end up selling out on pre order day. Cathay battalions sold out on the American webstore in 5 minutes to compare to saturnine.
I don't see the Mechanicum leaks in any of the imgur links.
>>96074832The rules don't matter, this edition is dead in the cradle.
>>96074815It is peak fucking cope to actually think GW is going to make a seperate entry in the Legacy PDF that is literally the SAME FUCKING THING, as the one in the book for preators and centurions so that they can be on a bike.
Holy fuck these people are on some pure crystal cope.
>>96074850Selling out doesn't mean it's popular, but not selling out means it's completely flopped.
>>96074766>>96074785>>96074800I would argue its a general lack of interest in AoS too?
look at the trailer posted on GWs youtube channel
its been what, a year and its 1 million views
and the saturnine trailer is only a few months old and has what, 2? 3? million views?
heresy is a specialist game, AoS is a main game!
>>96074850We will find out whether its a flop or not in due time, this certainly doesent prove it. But it does indicate that theres either GW overestimated the demand (like they supposedly did with other boxes) so that it wouldnt sell out and everyone could get one, or that hype has been reduced.
GW boxes tend to sell out, you would expect an anticipated release box to do just that. it hasnt. Theres a very clear enthusiasm damper on it all.
>>96074819Not to overstate it but, kind of. I mean even if you think all the changes are for the better, I think they're substantial enough to represent a sharp break with HH as the game has played since the first black books. The move going into 2.0 was less radical than the move into 3.0.
>>96074804Oh my god you're right, not even D2, straight up D1 range 6" trash.
Nevermind then, we're going back to thunderhammers.
>>96074854>Cathay battalions sold out on the American webstore in 5 minutes to compare to saturnine.The fact that a single army had a faster sell out time then the release of an entire new fucking edition to a game with a turbo die hard fanbase is very telling.
It seems we are now witnessing the fracture of the 30k player base. A fairly large portion may either stick with 2.0 or play a community ruleset going forward. What does (You)r local scene plan to do in light of the 3.0 shitstorm?
>>96074819the main victim is as usual the third party non-gamesworkshop stores.
HH3 is so terrible that people won't buy it. Those stores can't afford to have $8000 on 50 boxes unmoving in their back room taking up space and at risk of being stolen, they have to pay their employees and building rent and electricity and AC, etc. So they'll ditch them for super-cheap and have to move onto something else. Game stores are like movie theaters, most are shutting down nowadays, and each giga-flop from GW accelerates it. People just buy/watch online so margins are too tight.
>>96074814Aussie reporting in, one of our most popular sites still has a crap ton still up. For reference the rapier batteries pre-order sold out quicker than this new edition has
>>96074849I would really like to know who the corpo vermin that are pushing for these horrible franchise ruining decisions are.
Shareholders would probably also like to know after this shitfest of a launch.
>>96074868>heresy is a specialist game, AoS is a main game!HH has been one of GW's mainline wargames since it relaunched with 2e.
>>96074870stop looking at the box selling out and look at the books
the books are required to play the game, and none of those have sold out either
What to equip heavy weapon squads with?
I've got bits enough for two.
>>96074890its crammed into the specialist game section with necromunda at the back of stores, its a specialist game
>>96074893You can get the book online for free, you cannot do the same for models.
>>96074890Itโs a specialist game like tow. At best in GW stores they will have the starter sets and sometimes they wonโt carry any specialist kits at all in the store.
>>96074655imagine having a brain this smooth
>>96074880Everybody here wants to play 3.0 and we'll just houserule in access to the legion sergeant melee weapons list for example to fix old wargear options.
No one in their right mind would voluntarily keep playing the edition that has the Brutal special rule in it.
>>960748802.0 will be aggressively built upon, dug into, and otherwise further houseruled in perpetuity by the looks of things
>mAyBe tHeY uNfUcK iT wItH a PdF
>>96074850you're coping, retard shill anon.
There's no reason to pay $315 when online stores with free shipping send them home for 268, and I've been watching the online stores in US (I have the top 12 bookmarked for preorders like spacewolves box)
Over all the major stores in US, I've seen less than 50 copies of saturnine disappearing in the last 18 hours. That's less than 1 box per state in the entire country. You could be the only person in Georgia or Mississippi to have purchased this garbage.
>>96074870>>96074862>>96074856But it physically can't sell out, it's an unlimited print run starter set, not a launch box. By that logic Levithan was a failure because that didn't sell out right away either.
>>96074925So was the Cathay battalion. Yet it still sold out in 5 minutes. Just because they will print more in the future doesnโt mean they have infinite inventory at all times. Fortunately for GW it looks like they wonโt have to fire up the printers for a long time for saturnine.
>>96074915OOOORRRR or or or
and hear me out here
>keep playing 2.0>Change Brutal(x) to : A failed save means you take x wounds not, a successful wound means you make x saves >Dont spend money on shitty product>Give GW the finger>Go down to the pub, have a pint and wait for this to all blow over. No one in their right mind that is not a mindless consoomer would even think about giving money to GW for this slop.
I mean ffs look at the IF advanced reaction, they could not even get that right, they literally shoot themselves, like you will be if you buy this edition.
>>96074901Yes, but that isn't as significant a factor as you think it is.
The rulebook sales do correlate with the amount of players.
>>96074925if a game is popular, wave 1 instantly sells out and GW is forced to re-print. Horus heresy is so dead that they might not even have an incentive to print a wave 2 of this box. It'd be a bad idea for them to kill off FLGS by having another Dominion situation where stores are going out of business because GW product cant even be moved.
I can't get over how they fucked up the legs. If it was because some limitation of plastic injection molds, I could overlook it. But this was a conscious decision made for aesthetic reasons. And I hate it.
>>96074925It can sell out though, especially with the context of "LGS stock".
Just because something will continue to be printed doesent mean it has an infinite supply at any given time. If a store has say 40 boxes in stock, it doesent matter if they can get some more in due time, they can still sell all those 40 boxes and be unable to sell more. My local LGS ran out of the TOW matched play guide thingy last time I went to check, that isnt a limited run item.
>By that logic Levithan was a failure because that didn't sell out right away either.We dont know how many copies of leviathan were prepared before the launch, we dont know how many copies LGS's had (at least I dont). Its possible it was similar numers to saturnine, it was probably more.
In the abstract selling out (or not) means nothing, it could mean the singular copy in stock was sold or it could mean theres an entire warehouse prepped and they sold 1000 and have 1000 left. But it does stand out if things usually sell out but dont, it implies that the stock was higher than the immediate demand, that the hype was lower than expected.
>>96074766>>96074800https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO0yuf-ToAk
>>96074941>DominionSpeaking of which, what happens when a store can't sell their items? Do they just throw them in the trash and write them off as a loss?
are there legion specific prime benefits? im seeing people using some that i dont see in this list
>>96074901the other anon is correct. GW knows the truth is there's a percentage of its customers who will ALWAYS only buy paper books ("I like to hold it in my hands" "I cant read electronic screens" "I wont be allowed to play in my store if I dont buy paper")
It doesn't matter if this is 30% or 50% of their customer-base, it's one steady ratio that never changes.
Whatever percentage that is, if only 10 book copies of Heresy are selling, that means there is no community whatsoever. That means boomers and grogs are entirely skipping HH3 and sticking with superior HH1/2.
>>96074935>>Change Brutal(x) to : A failed save means you take x wounds not, a successful wound means you make x savesOily imperial fist hands typed this post. Brutal(3) and brutal(4) are the only things good at answering cancerous stone gauntlet lists.
>>96074935honestly despite /hhg/ being retarded I feel we could make a fixed 2nd edition
generally I think the consensus is to just fix the most egregious shit with the core rules, maybe add a bit of 3rd to it
Any more auxilia or has the board of retards killed mortal armies
>>96074969Thereโs no reason why the community canโt do a better job than GW. Thatโs what the Mordheim and warmaster communities did.
>>96074961Donโt know for other stores, but the ones I buy from drop their prices significantly if something canโt be shifted after a year or two. People will buy shit if the price is low enough, even if whatever theyโre buying technically cant be used
>>96074882this is more true than people realize. All my LGS are dumping anything GW that isnt 40k at this point because no one is buying
>>96074935There is a lot more wrong with 2.0 than just Brutal. Nothing that you would understand, since you're a nogames that has no models.
>>96074952Wasn't there a War-Com article where they said they didn't want people to think the armor could articulate?
>>96074963Most of them are old legion specific consuls as upgrade for Centurions.
wut
md5: 41f2631ac1dbf6143017273ae8e7bfee
๐
why has the completely useless and pointless map sold out on the UK site though, of all fucking things
>>96074925Can't you go cope shill in the Pano trooncord instead?
People are trying to have meaningful discussions here, not explain basic things to someone with your gigacorpo simp drone brain.
>>96074966You are implying i think warderns should not be nerfed into the fucking ground and back with what they are, they are literally just better cheaper terminators. Fuck them.
>>960749692.0 you can fix the vast majority of problems wiht like 2 simple changes.
Brutal(x) is applied after a failed save, not before
Heavy weapons snap shot on intercept, return fire, and overwatch, unless they have a rule that lets them move and fire with out penalty.
That fixes a vast majority of issues with 2.0.
The rest is around fixing vehicles and at that point you could probably just adoprt 3.0 rules for vehicels which are pretty damn good rules IMO, just skip the HP increase.
>>96074963Yes, a lot of legions have units that became prime advantages oo new units with that mechanis
>>96074976The fundamental disconnect here is that none of the rules issues with 2.0 are related to why people are mad at 3.0. The issue isnt the core rules changes or that X weapon is OP or whatever.
The issue people are really upset about is the removal of various options and units from the game, that units are no longer legal and that whole unit types are just gone. Someone who made a jetbike command squad is less interested in the merits of wider game balance or whatever and more in the factt hat he cant use his unit any more.
>>96074980Yes, apparently it was a single guy on the team who arbitrarily decided they should change the design because he thought it looked "stupid".
>>96074976I post here all the time and play tsons, dangels and knight with some aux, brutal is just one of the things to fix, but overall 2.0 would be a lot easier to fix.
Just stop being a contrarian and be willing to try rule changes and house rules that might not work to see what is viable and what is not.
>>96074961I believe from reading interviews of store owners, if they buy them for $100 from GW, GW is willing to buy them back for their $100 (I don't know if the store is obligated to pay shipping/handling at some point), but then they've made no profit at all, and had to spend pay on store employees, putting things on shelves, losses from boxes getting stolen so they cant get $100 back, Some boxes will get scratched or dented and the store has to take an extra 20% more off damaged goods (most common from what I've seen). the regular store costs, lost potential profits because that shelf could've been Magic The Gathering cards for the last 3 months instead of Dominion.
These small stores usually need to pay a gouging bank loan for the building and merchandise, so they don't actually keep most of the profit margin. If they're not making any profit, the bank takes the building back and they gotta go work at mcdonalds.
>>96074990basically yes
but to fix say, intercept reaction spam i'd argue that "defensive weapons" applies to all guns S6 or below, not just on vehicles
so that 10 man lascannon HSS cant react fire at all, the price you pay for a good weapon
>>96074999A common problem.
>>96074987Lol the scalpers are gonna be stuck with a ton of them and be unable to flip them now.
>>96072543Are you saying they will release official legacies like in the old world?
>>96075010If the boxes don't sell they can dump the sprues or even bits and sell it piecemeal
>>96074992>>96074986oh im fucking retarded its literally right there thanks
thanks
>>96075004I say snap shots for heavy weapons which are most weapons taht are greater then S6 or have high volume of fire.
I think it makes perfect sense too, because your trying to swing a big fucking weapon around to fire at something that just appeared, so you cant get a good shot, that would greatly fix intercepting while still keeping some units as very good intercept units like the doreto(Which needs a point reduction) or a contemptor with dual plasma canons and a targeting array because if you deep strike in front of that, that's your fault.
>>96075013No they won't, it's just another shill pulling shit out of their ass.
>>96075019>If the boxes don't sell they can dump the sprues or even bits and sell it piecemeaThis is how they are gonna do it, the rule book will be dead weight, the terminators and dread will be easy sells, Mk2 might be harder, and the turret is dead as well.
>>96074990And changing the WS chart to the 1.0 version, making return fire reactions after the reacting unit have had their casualties removed.
The edition could almost have been fixed with an errata.
>>96075000There's a long list of units and weapons that need to be entirely re-written and/or rebalanced to become remotely viable. That's way more work than just saying "These units have access to items from this list"
>>96074185Yup, and the hilarious depressing irony is it's still too complicated for them. They wrote the rules out in such excruciating detail a toddler could understand them(after you pumped enough Ritalin into them to make them focus long enough to read through) and gutted player choice and modelling opportunities, and these fucking single-celled organisms are still baffled by it all. You could reduce the game to
>mash your action figgies together making pewpew noises until you get bored then each player rolls a dice until one gets a six then that player wins!and they'd probably still be overwhelmed. Frankly I don't know how they have enough mental capacity to run their bodies' autonomic functions, they should literally be dying of stupid.
>>96075029Plenty of people will buy the turret, that thing is great conversion fodder
>>96074934A Batallion won't be produced at the amount at the same amounts as starter set.
>>96074956>>96074941Fair point, but would you call 2.0 a flop because that also didn't sell out (at least where i live)? I wouldn't call it an outright flop just because it didn't sell out, they probably just made more than they need. I guess I'm looking at this from A Cusomers POV since, selling out is a flop from that side, selling out in five minutes is kind of unaceptable, you shouldn't have to be there on the dot at launch to get one, you should be able to get one weeks or months after, thats insane that people accept that as normal. But thats probably why my brain is trying to rationalize why its a flop.
>>96075023>>96075004Being only able to react with a unit once per turn is one good change 3.0 is making.
Triple shooting in your opponents turn is so fucking cursed.
>>96075001* but it's very common for a store to just ditch them cheap to customers instead of returning to GW, because the store thinks "I hope I made that customer very happy and he'll buy something else when he visits my store that doesnt suck as much as HH3.0 and then my store won't get foreclosed by the bank"
The problem is usually, that big box is the least-ripoff of the range, so if they're unable to even move Dominion/Skaventide/Saturnine, then there won't be regular people returning to pay $60 for rat ogors they could get online for $50. If the community was popping off in their store they wouldn't have needed to fire-sale Dominion/Skaventide/Saturnine in the first place.
>>96075019there's a very limited market for sprues, it takes employee time to sort and cut and separate all things for tiny profit, and then you gotta carefully package and do mail costs for tons of tiny low-profit orders which paypal or bank might refund the customer if a plastic spear is slightly bent. Bits market is a money-maker for out-of-print rare boxes (like deathguard launch box where the plague marines are sold nowhere else, or that dark angel firstborn box with limited edition only chaplains and OOP sculpts) but it's not gonna keep any stores open for an unlimited print box.
Has there been anything about the tanks/their armaments for the solar aux leaks? Thinking about grabbing a tank for my militia and I'm curious what battle cannons, vanquishers, etc are statted at
>>96074112I still can't get past the legs personally. It has like a half metre thigh gap, you'd have to give the wearer a gogo-gadget bionic extending pelvis to fit in the fucking thing.
>>96075050I mean, in my country the AoD box sold out within the hour on all prominent LGS webstores.
It's been twelve hours since pre-orders went up. I just checked, and only one storefront (known for only taking on a few boxes of anything new because they're a tiny operation) have also had the best price in the country, and have sold out.
All of the other stores still have stock up for pre-order.
>>96075037I never said some units wont take work, im saying that the vast majority of issues with the game are centered around core design choices that are very easy to fix.
>Reaction shooting is snap firing with heavy weapons unless you have something to shoot and move with heavy weapons>Old WS chart>Brutal is 1 save per wound, not x saves per wound >You can only react once with a unit per turn >Adopt the 3.0 vehicle system but dont increase the HP(might need to fiddle with this one a bit in terms of HP)There that fixes the majority of issues with the game, its just the last 10% of the game that would need most of the work done
Like off the top of my head, Suz get a point increase, warders get a point increase, both lose line.
Gravis Melta on dread is 15 points
A personal one, but rapiers should be able to return fire, and over watch from the front arc of their guns.
Im not saying its gonna be easy to fix, but its not going to be nearly as hard as people make it out to be, its just a matter of tinkering and playing games.
>>96075046So long as supply is greater than demand, the price goes down. That's basic economics. And the demand for conversion-turrets-by-tards-who-cant-3d-print is maybe 10-50 while the supply of spare turrets of people who don't like immobile trash is going to be in the thousands.
>GW would never put a unit entry of an already existing unit in the legacies rules, just to add lost options back! Never!
>>96075093That's a nice quote bro. Find me the guy who said it.
>>96075082Reminder that anything being sold out means nothing. Most likely the stores only ordered like 2 or 3 of each item.
>>96075093Anon, thats not even remotely the same bro.
>>96074994I think that's what many of the people discussing the new rules and still coping haven't realized yet, The rules don't matter if you can't play your army, even if you do rebuild your entire army for this edition and throw all those models you spent a shitton of time on in the trash you won't have anyone to play with, because most 1.0 and 2.0 won't go through the trouble of doing that, they will either stick with an earlier edition or cut their losses and leave the game entirely. You may find some new players who will have started with 3.0, but once the hype dies down they will probably leave, especially considering how horribly and convoluted the rules are written.
>>96075050GW produces to where it estimates demand. Selling out in 5 mins means they dramatically underestimated the demand for the Cathay box. Selling 50 boxes in the us in third party stores in 18 hours is a certified flop for release day.
>>96074952>>96074980>>96074999Just a reminder that they had a perfectly accurate 3d model of mk3 in the resin interemptors but chose to discard it in favor of the slop we got.
>>96075100No? AoD was huge here. People were lined up outside of the store doors and around the building to pick up their boxes - there was more than enough to go around.
>>96075125This, AOD was a fucking hit, that thing sold out FAST, and was a great box.
>>96075019I was talking about the maps
>>96075101Nta but I would be surprised if bike centurion at the very least isn't in the liber.
Fucking absolutely zero hope for all the deleted wargear options though, except maybe like, termie armour/jump pack variants
>>96075093So you think we're getting
>a power armor chaplain with all the wargear options and a jumppack option>cataphractii/tartaros chaplains>chaplain with bike>chaplain with jetbikeDo you honestly believe that? Repeat for every consul that the above applies to?
>>96075082>>96075125>>96075125I suppose with AOD you had the waves of 40k refugees (who gave up after a week)and people buying it to use in 40k. Which inflated sales and probely inflated expectations for this edition. At my local store only 8 people bought boxes on launch day though so who knows.
>>96075135>Nta but I would be surprised if bike centurion at the very least isn't in the liber.Its not in teh liber, or you mean the PDF?
I would be shocked if they made an entry for it, becuase AT BEST, the way GW could do it would be make 2 entries, one for preator on outrider bike which could be upgraded to Skyhunter which would need to change the profile, and one for centurian that could be upgraded to a skyhunter and or to what ever other version of an officer you want, like a librarian.
>>96074655A significant plurality of corporate board and leadership positions are occupied by literal meet-the-diagnostic-criteria sociopaths and psychopaths, who exist in a world where money long ago ceased to have any meaning to them personally as anything more than a way to keep score in their personal powergames, and you think they're above being petty, petulant, selfish a-holes because the Glorious Invisible Hand hovers over them, always ready to steer them back towards the course of Rationally Acting Wealth Acquisitors? I'll take his "socialism" over your juvenile Atlas Shrugged fanfic any day chum.
>>96075050All these things are in degrees like anything in sales.
AoD was a "light flop", you can consider it like the movie Thunderbolts, where they were hoping for a 40k style success but it was a mild disappointment of sales (barely breaking even or barely underneath breaking even). It wouldn't be necessary to fire the people involved, but nobody would get a promotion to a better job. Certain pockets had communities accept it as a hobby and in those countries/towns it sold very well, while in others nobody picked it up.
Dominion, on the other hand, was a "heavy flop" like The Marvels movie. Heavy flops call for firing a CEO or having the CEO fire several scapegoat managers and creative directors and other executives used as scapegoats. It was basically more available than people wanted everywhere across the earth.
Skaventide and Saturnine seem currently in "medium flop" territory. Saturnine escapes being a full-on "heavy flop" merely because tactical space marines are less gay than stormcast gayternals and people will proxy them even for 40k space marines, so it won't drop to $100 per box, people will buy a few of them just for conversion-fodder. And skaventide avoided 'heavy flop' status by packing so much sprues (and including terrain and campaign books and other stuff) that they tricked people into thinking at least it's not quite as shit as Dominion box was.
The problem is, if the sales are bad AND half those actually are to 40k players using tactical marines for Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marine troopers and saturnine termies as obliterators or centurion-devastator squads, then the codexes and rules-related 30k stuff won't move at all and GW will reduce support (which tracks with this store only selling 12 Liber Astartes codexes in 18 hours)
>>96075093You're really coping a bit too hard m8
>>96075084how about this for reactions etc
>defensive and battle weapons are universally classed, not just vehicles>reacting with battle weapons is snap shots (i.e vehicles get a buff but HSS still gets a nerf)>each unit can only make one reaction where they shoot a turn (i.e allows you to still use withdraw/advance but still nerfs triple shooting via interceptor, return fire etc)>wargear that gives free reactions unchanged, just that the unit is still limited by one shooting reaction a turnthat way, tanks get a neat little buff, HSS gets a nerf, and non shooting reactions arent made complete shit
>>96075138>with all the wargear optionsLolno.
As for jump/bike/terminator consuls? That one is possible. Their options? Almost certainly gone for good.
>>96075155>people buying it to use in 40k.THis was not a thing becuase it was not cross compatable in any meaningful way.
Tac marines were not that great
Cata termies sucked
Spartan could not carry numarines
and the dread was MEH.
So no this is a non existent group.
>>96075165Yeah i would be fine with trying that out.
>>96075163>AoD was a "light flop",....what?
>Skaventide and Saturnine seem currently in "medium flop" territory. WHAT?!
Bro they were giving, i wanna restate that GW, was GIVING away skaven tide FOR FREE to premium ticket holders at adaption. Skaventide was a belly flop lol.
>>96074501>They forgot to add the 2nd set of Cataphractii shoulder pads.Every fucking time.
>>96075157There's no point arguing with that guy, he will just keep felating his corporate overlords until the day he dies.
>>96075123I did not need to be reminded of this.
>>96075138Not for just the consuls. All the units that lost options. There's no way they will.
>>96075169>THis was not a thing becuase it was not crossI know quite a few people who did that, a lot of people in /40kg/ and other forums did it, you can use the tacticals as intercesors, use the notmal codex with the cataphractiis and the spartan as a normal land raider, I did this and know people who did, plus plenty of grogs made """"firstborn"""" armies with them out of spite
>>96075191You're probably right. Skaventide did get discounted much faster than AoD did (I didn't even have to wait till christmas to get them for 169), it was a much harder flop than AoD for sure.
>>96074815>They'll just be shoved into a PDF and never updated, to be forgotten about when the next edition launches.>Or-or they will be brought back in a new book that you will have to pay for after being a core part of the army for a decade.>S-so it's no-not that bad. H-honest.I wish plague and misery upon these shills.
speaking of skaventide
I want to be good money that GW REALLY wanted to call it vermintide but obviously couldnt
Sorry lads, coming in with a noob question re 2.0:
Would Volkite Chargers would be better for Dominators? So that they can use them before charging, which Combibolters can't do.
Although now that I think about it, Dominators are going to be looking for other Terminators, which would easily shrug off the Volkite...
>>96075215Was AoD ever discounted? i dont think i ever saw a discounted price of AoD. Granted i was not looking but i also dont recall people saying it was cheaper.
>>96075224Terminators are relentless.
>>96075224terminators have relentless, they can use combi-bolters and charge
>Aux, Mech, and Knights keep 99% of their models and options
>this is because James knows they're less likely to paypig for Journals than legionfags
>>96075230All gw stuff gets discounted by third party sellers
>>96074969>Use TOW's WS chart.>Sort out some of the rules like Brutal, and vehicles squadrons and some of the weapons like LascannonsSorted
>>96075224>So that they can use them before charging, which Combibolters can't do.I'm pretty sure that dominators are relentless, which lets them charge after firing combi bolters.
>>96075234Knights only have like 3 models, what could they lose?
>>96075239Yeah but im talking like discounts beyond the regular 15%
Im talking like, holy shit we need to fire sale/move this stock kinda sale.
>>96075230There were at least 2 discounted as local stores here. I don't know world-wide. The 40k ones I've never seen a discounted one in my entire life (an extra-size discount)
>>96075234>>this is because James knows they're less likely to paypig for Journals than legionfagsIt's because James knows they're too small a faction to sell journals to at a profit.
>>96075224Dominators have Relentless so they can still shoot rapid fire weapons and charge.
>>96075191now onto vehicles
I quite like how 3rd seems to be handling them, but how can the damage system be translated to 2nd?
vehicle damage chart on glances, 7s become a hullpoint instead of explodes?
but then a vehicle would get fucked permanently by a bunch of weapon destroyed results
>>96075240Brutal becomes significantly less of an issue if you stop throwing it almost exclusively on Str 8+ AP2 weapons.
If you swapped the rending on autocannons for Brutal (2), it would be fine.
>>96075163The thing with that is that people fail upwards these days, it doesn't matter if you completely fucked up a product launch and lost a bunch of money, because any large enough company is now fueled by blackrock type organizations and shareholders, and all the people in charge are nepo-hires with zero merit who will never get fired because they have the right connections.
>>96075264DESU the 3.0 vehcile system works pretty well, i would say just adopt that system, and keep HPs the same. The HP increase in 3.0 was due to weapons getting multiple damage, but if you take the new 3.0 system for them, but keep the old HP i think it would actually work just fine.
>>96075254* and I think part of why the AOD box discount was more rare (though it happened to me) was when I bought it, Contemptor-Dreadnoughts were marketed as a legal in-the-codex non-legends 40k model for Deathguard and the terminators were legal in-the-codex Relic Terminators for Dark Angels 40k and the Spartans and stuff were advertised as "gonna be usable in 40k"
Then it was all a lie and everything was taken away, but that was after AOD had moved most of its boxes.
>>96075272and just change the status effects to be what they do (i.e "it cant react for the turn" or "it cant move for the turn")
>>96075156yeah, legacies sorry, whatever the fuck it will be called.
They will likely have the gear upgrades that in newspeak are separate profiles (termies/jumppack/etc) but doubtful they will give us back gear options.
>>96075282Yeah, look at that problem solved give it a ago and see how it works personally i think it would be good, the vehcile damage chart of 2.0 is a relic of the past. Hell you could even probably use the blast rules for 3.0 which i think fix the problem with small blast being dog shit.
>>96075192Why does literally no one seem to know how to actually fucking build cata's right? Do people not use their eyes at all?
AoD got lot of tangential sales from 1) pseudo-grogs who wanted beakies for le epic RT references and 2) 40kids wanting to use the OP 30k datasheets in 40k (which were LEGENDS'd like 3 months later)
>Stop playing Warhammer at the end of 8th because primaris sapping my will
>Play like 3 games of 2.0 but give up due to health.
>Actually make an effort to get into a game again.
>it dies
HATE! HATE! HAYE!
>>96075289alright so we got reactions and vehicles roughly pinned down
what else is egregious with the core rules? i've seen the WS chart a lot
>Secutarii mentioned in the Titan Legion section of rules alongside the triaros
Neat
>>96075298This is what you get for paypigging Lisa-poster
>>96075272>DESU the 3.0 vehcile system works pretty wellHow do you know. Have you used it.
I can understand being bullish or negative about the system, but I dont understand this. We dont know what the rules of 3.0 will pan out line, we havent played it and we havent tried to break it to see where it cracks and falls apart. Does the vehicle system work fine, or does it end with pointless boxes that get crippled by stray fire and explode when something looks at them? We dont actually know, we just have hunches. Do these vehicle rules work at all in an edition where sunder or rending autocannons or accurate and spammable melta exist? Who knows. They might be carried by the kneecapping of all of the marine guns.
If you want to complain about missing options or flavor or how varangyr without thunder hammers killed your dog be my guest, you have absolutely every right to it. But discussing the system as if it has merits before its even out, and as if we know how good or bad its rules actually are before we use them, is silly.
>>96075192Check you sight anon. The pads are there.
>>96075316We knew dreads, lascannons and hammers would be ass this time last edition, and hey presto, they were.
>>96075314 Tbf i still wanted the models
>>96075316>How do you know. Have you used it.You know anon not understanding social ques is a sign of autism.
Very clear it did not mean its actually fucking solved, holy shit dude.
>>96075272>and keep HPs the same. The HP increase in 3.0 was due to weapons getting multiple damage, but if you take the new 3.0 system for them, but keep the old HP i think it would actually work just fine.As someone who ran multiple armored spearheads in 2.0, no this isn't enough, either you buff HPs or you nerf into tank across the board and you delete krak grenades from the game.
How to you play 2.0 when you don't have an LGS, just GW and GR?
>>96075341Any friend? Ironically I don't have a FLG near me. But I did manage to find a group of friends with whom to play with. Makes things easier.
>>96075336Well remember anon, in the 3.0 system you only lose HP on a pen role, glance pings off and just gives a status effect. So in a LR, if you are going up against a Las canon, they have to hit you and roll a 6 to pen and do a HP.
>>96075300yeah WS chart has to go. There's no possible way to justify 1 WS changing it from 4+/4+ to 3+/5+.
That's why in HH3 Rogal Dorn sucks cock even though he has a special gambit to ignore dice rolls of 1-4 to wound him. 1 single point of extra WS on someone like Lion makes their hits just easily roll all over Dorn while Dorn just swings and hits air, air, air, air.
It makes the 2 main stats of the game WS and DMG, as they're far more impactful than strength or toughness or attacks (too impactful, which is why Brutal was so hated)
It's a solved problem already. Just make it so WS5 vs WS4 is 3+ to hit and 4+ to be hit. You'd need to reach 2 stages higher before enemy goes to 5+ to hit you.
>>96075336nerf sunder to be reroll 1s?
>>96075350>>96075351I don't have friends into wargames, sadly
>>96074923Here's a weird thought... I wonder many people are buying up 2.0 stuff right now. Is there a chance the original AoD box is selling better right now than Saturnine? How would we even work that out?
If nothing else it's probably a great time to buy it.
>>96075327Sure thing buddy. Wanna peer into that crystal ball of yours and tell me how common high strength weapons like lascannons will be this edition? Wanna tell me whether vehicle durability under the new system is balanced around a specific availability of weapons that can harm certain things? Or are you just looking at some vague systems, going "hmm, I guess it sounds fairly good" and then forgetting the entire ecosystem in which they will exist?
The new system can only (and will only) work if penetrating vehicles is hard, if getting through the armor is difficult and even getting a glance might be all you can do a lot of the time. It doesent work in 2.0, where penetrating is really easy and many more weapons can do it.
>>96075251The Dominus chasis. Which is weird because it had rules in 1.0.
I might cancel my saturnine box.
>>96075363>The new system can only (and will only) work if penetrating vehicles is hardAnon you are acting like the entire fucking rules did not leak, and we alreayd know the value of things and we can literally do this wild thing called MATH, its been around for a bit, and figure out what things will look like.
Holy fuck dude i think you are winning the award for the most contrarian idiot in this thread, which is a very tough thing to do.
Spam kratos melta cannon, 1 shot all vehicles.
>>96075376Yes, we have the individual data points for most things. How they combine to play out in practice we do not know.
Will people be using the new FOC to take 6 10 man lascannon squads each game? Will weapons that can penetrate tanks now be a lot rarer because lascannons are less optimal? Will the system fall apart because the only AT weapon anyone uses is armorbane? We dont know these things yet because these things require seeing the game actually play out. How big a deal is the new cover system for preventing gunlines and requiring units to move? How important is rushing up the board? How important is optimal power armor killing vs the generalist "big thing" damage of lascannons?
>>96075374Before the liber leaks I was about to pre-order but I'll stay with 2.0 unless there's some massive changes there and will wait a long time before getting saturnine on sale. No point in rushing anyway, it's not limited.
>>96075272uwotm8?
3.0 vehicle rules is funny missile/autocannon getting a lucky glancing hit (which ignores cover, unlike pens), applying a status effect to the tank where it then has a high chance of not being able to move/shoot for the rest of the game.
Or you try to kill a vehicle outright and have to hit the damn thing with like 10 lascannon pens to actually break it, and none of those shots until it dies does anything to reduce its effectiveness (also all the top AT weapons literally can't glance so aylmao)
Sure, spartans and the like have high repair rolls, but the system is just fucking cursed.
>>96075027As a militia and ruinstorm player, I really hope my lists from 1.0 that never made it to 2.0 become playable in this new edition. Thank Odin we are getting out lists so early into the lifespan of the edition. Now if we can just get longer lifespans on each edition...
what if we just got rid of glances and just kept pens?
makes vehicles slightly tougher, and you could have a vehicle damage chart of say
>1-2 cant react for the turn
>3-4 cant move for the turn
>5 snapshots for the turn
>6+ deal 1 hullpoint
that way AP3 or worse can still deal hullpoints, AP2 and 1 still get their +1 and +2 bonuses to the chart
maybe have the effects stack the higher you go?
>>96075317They put the outer pads on, but they forgot the inner pads.
>>96075361GW stopped printing AOD a long time ago, it's gone from stores.
>>96075374if it's free to cancel it's just free money. This launch is so unpopular it's going to drop like 15-20% in a month or two once the scalper/hoarders who bought a few boxes of the first wave hoping to ebay them end up just dumping and stores panic.
>>96075402Anon are you proposing the new titan damage mechanic for all vehicles? Because I WILL take a bunch of rhinos and predators to spite you.
Even with a pro paintjob and dynamic pose these fuckers look like trash
>>96075420honestly i cant remember what those mechanics are aside from different regions can be shot and disabled (which im not doing)
>>96075423Idk, I kinda like it.
>>96075426Once you "break" a part you have to keep hitting it to do actual damage, which has a chart on which you roll (rolls eventually compound to make subsequent rolls stronger), rolling high enough triggers critical damage (stuff that actually hurts the titan, breaking the part does nothing to it except unlock rolling on the damage chart if you keep hitting the part)
>>96075423The arm swept back like those showing the under-pauldron just emphasizes how bad the porportions are. Of course the marines have to be partly psychic because apparently the head is the only thing hooked up in there.
>>96075423It honestly looks a lot less like a childs action figure here than the GW paintjob. Plus, Saturnine as a concept are visually stupid no matter what you do. They're basically a weird parody concept that outdates what they're a parody of.
>>96075406Oh shit you're right. I'm not used to these anymore, the printed ones I use have the inner pads integrated. Woops.
>>96075402ironically, the game World of Warships had the right idea of the fix (though wrong implementation)
There was a random chance a single bullet would hit your ammo and your entire ship would detonate. This was luck-based, unfun and shitty.
Years later they addressed this by patching that while >75% HP, shells cant possibly detonate one-shot your ship.
They fucked up though and if a salvo does 26% HP to your ship, since it passed 75% that salvo would random chance to detonate your entire ship.
Heresy just needs a damage table where a tank above half hull points shifts the table down 1 or 2 places, making it utterly impossible to lose your tank to the first lascannon hit with bad luck. Maybe having only 1 hull point would shift the table up 1, making it more likely to go kaboom. A lot of weapons and tanks would need tweaking, but it'd fix all complaints. Tanks could still have good luck / bad luck (unlike 40k healthbars) and could still have weapons destroyed or immobilized, but they wouldn't go up from a single 6-6 roll.
>>96075439So... it's a bit like Titanicus?
>>96075423>pro paint job >look inside >eavy metal again Ere's your (you) maybe you can go exchange it for a dry brush and some weathering powders and learn how to actually paint
>>96075439not the intention, just trying to keep vehicles tough while making vehicle damage matter
as i said, any weapon that pens can deal hullpoints but stuff like crew shaken, weapon destroyed etc is replaced with the 3rd ed status effects
not sure if they should stack on a single roll however (i.e a single lascannon rolls a 5, should it just apply "snap shots for the turn" or should it apply all 3 effects?)
>>96075413lets face it 2.0 militia was a trash fire. How could it get worse... Right.
>>96075423the paintjob is good, the mini still looks like a third party non-games-workshop piece of shit made by some 3d printer patreon.
He's just out of scale between his head and crotch and any other space marine, which instantly makes him unusable in 40k.
And since he's not dreadnought-sized, you can't pretend the helmet is not where his head is located (that'd just be even more gay)
>>96075457Yes once you destroy the structure you do critical damage until it dies.
>>96075453problem is it may be a bit too needlessly complicated, personally I think a slimmed down chart keeps it simple while retaining flavour and SOME potency to anti tank weapons
hell you could even unfuck third line by going "third line now just adds +1 to the roll" if you really dont want to scrap it
>>96075475I'm almost certain they'll lose Cargo-8s
>>96075453alternatively, since we're obligated to GW's trash D6 system. Each tank damage test you roll 2d6 and discard one of the dice you want. Then lascannons would still be hurting tanks but it'd be significantly less likely a single trooper annihilates the entire tank.
>>96075475It's about to get a lot worse for you.
>>96075491* would leave possibility for a rule like sunder or melta to be "opponent only rolls 1d6 during vehicle damage tests"
Canceled my order,just going to cut my losses give up on 30k all together, is Ligma any good? Might pick up a box or two and try it out. If not i just feel so defeated i might just give up on wargames all together.
>>96075488Oh thank the gods. Maybe we can get a real transport instead.
Arvus lighter is cool, but just let me use the chimera or something. Mind you I run squats so I keep looking at other stuff to see if they would work. Not votan though, that stuff looks like ass.
>>96075475>wanting to play redshirts in an edition where space marines shoot 60 shots while easily super-scoring all objectivesNot gonna feel so good Mr Stark
Why is has so much HH stuff been out of stock for forever, shits killing me
>>96075502Ligma has trash models. Dont bother.
>>96075402Not any of the guys talking about vehicle rules but I like the concept of glances causing some kind of status effect and not necessarily doing any hull points. I think the fundamental issue is that penetrating hits don't also cause statuses.
Maybe the vehicle damage table should be the same for glances and pens, and getting a pen just adds a bunch to your result? So a glance can only get like a 1-6 result which deals stuff like cant react, reduce move, reduce BS, etc, while a pen adds like +3 to the result which will send you into immobilized or weapon destroyed territory?
>>96075423I prefer pic related desu. The fact that the dude has done this with "speed" painting is unreal. Granted, he won several Slayer Swords, but still!
>>96075423I actually like it.
It doesn't really look like a space marine at all though. It has exactly zero of the same design language as the rest of the range. Now maybe this is a deliberate choice, but it really does stand out as like a model from a different company or something.
>>96075502Try AT if you want small heresy, the ruleset is actually great and it has basically zero chance of ever being noticed by GW again.
>>96075498As an AL player that had a bike command squad, and chaplain/preator, assault cannon angels tears and ifriti shotgun squads, it can't gut more of my army then that.
>>96075506It's not about winning it's about sending a message, and having fun. Taking out a near immortal demigod of battle, with a squad of mortal space dwarves is fun as hell.
>>96075521>think the fundamental issue is that penetrating hits don't also cause statuses.No it isn't, you don't need to apply them when you are losing 3 HPs, thats overkill
>>96075510Because GW donโt want to make resin models anymore since they want to shift over entirely to plastic, but it isnโt a good look for them to just remove shit from the store without replacing it, so they just leave them indefinitely sold out for as long as they deem fit until they can either shelve the unit into a legacy or replace it with plastic.
>>96075423They would look better if they were scaled properly, I can't really see how marine can fit in there without is knees shattered. It's really retarded design
>>96075510Stop buying from GW anon.
After I realised good recasters genuinely have better quality (and better quality control) than FW, I never looked back.
>>96075526>ETB saturnine
>>96075539Third party remasters it is then, OH WELL.
Alot cheaper this way anyways kek
>>96075510Bc they probably make HH a vouple times a year and when that runs out it stays out until it's time again
>>96075537>fire off autocannon rounds into a tank and blow off it's optics: causes a status effect but doesn't really do any serious structural damage>fire a lascannon that penetrates the tank's armor and gets into the crew compartment: causes major structural damage but doesn't do any status effect (???)Just doesn't make sense anon. If you're penetrating the tank you're also probably doing something to cripple it mechanically beyond just shaving off hull points.
>>96075543Yeah darklegion is selling them for 45 usd lmao, compared to geedubs 100+
>>96075537>random krak missile phases through all cover, glances you, potentially immobilises you or fucks your weapons for the entire game with that one lucky shotvs
>Tank covered in lascannons shoot you 4 turns in a row>shots get blocked by cover>enemy is not incapacitated or weakened in anyway until its completely destroyed so it just keeps doing what its doing
>>96075488Why? They still sell those
>>96075532Good call, actually have the starter set but put it on the back burner
Any links for imgur for traitors?
>>96075400cope level: omega
>>96075502LIgma is good but it gets a bit limiting in that you can build armies pretty freely but having the most activations is the best so you are still limited to getting lots of boring infantry.
But LIgma is a good road into Titanicus so you should just get titans.
>>96075526Still looks like construction equipment in that color.
My primer was dry 5 hours ago
Should I start painting or wait?
>>96075510>Medicget email alerts, tis truly random. Anvillus dreadcalws were in stock randomly yesterday morning.
>>96075577The starter sets are pretty available still and are a great deal. Titanicus is super accessible even now.
>>96075593Yeah, might paint the starter set I have as a generic opfor legion for people to borrow and get anotner one to make my own proper legion with so i can get people inti it
Does anyone know what restrictions there are on the command squads? Do they explicitly need to be joined with a character to be purchased in the first place?
I noticed with the centurion command squad, its just a repackaged company command squad - well, it has a champion, so probably closer to 2.0 vet tac squad.
But I didn't see anything explicitly saying 'you need a centurion for this', though I might be blind.
>>96073504'plastic Tartaros can't take powerfists'
> Offers mic back to the faggot
>>96075423>>96075582I feel like people are forgetting what saturnine aesthetics are/were.
>>96075423I hate how that helmet looks on the Saturnine armor, which is great because I was considering using it and now I know better and won't ruin one trying to cut the back to fit better.
Instead I'll just waste time and effort sculpting hoods before realizing everything sucks because nothing will ever look nice on that armor.
>>96075613Damn they'd look alot cooler with autocannons and heavy boaters like the picrel
>>96075625That pic looks like absolute ass, the models are trying to salvage a fundamentally stupid looking design.
>>96075613Yeah. Shit through and through
>>96075613looked bad then, looks worse now as we have to see it side-by-side with the out of proportion normal space marines to really highlight the wrongness
>>96075605The restrictions is they're retinue so you need either to take the honor guard apex detachment (requires a praetor) or the veteran cadre aux detachment (requires a champion)
>>96075649>looks worse nowNo, the terminators look much better now. They just also still look silly and dumb.
>>96075625>heavy boatersARRRRRRR! BRING US TO STARBOARD, WE'LL GIVE THESE SCALLYWAGS A TASTE OF THE BROADSIDE!
On the subject of Titanicus. Do the kits still come with the right bases or do I need to buy them?
>>96075655The old one might be able to justify the stupid pauldrons with "gotta support this autocannon and all the 1000 autocannon shells for my belt-fed arm guns"
New one just looks entirely arbitrary retarded for no purpose and simply looks like designer forgot he's making a 40k model and was trying to make a 50mm scale trooper for Inquisitor the game.
>>96075661They come with the LIgma street bases with no rim, which are good enough but not cool.
>>96075659Sir, the Imperial Fist refuses to leave the poopdeck again. He's telling us he knows a way to find where land is. Yes.... Yes... it's eating his poop again.
>>96074277>>96074342Depends on the dreadnought. Saturnine? Fuck no. Castraferrum? YES. Fuck measurements. Fuck practically. Fuck bitches bigger than you. Flex those leg vents and LIFT for the Emperor!
>>96075664>simply looks like designer forgot he's making a 40k modelTourist RAT detected
>>96075681Bro, it's literally got the primaris knees.
>>96075355>>96075300hey keep this shit in the combination outercircle-transrights discord guys
>>96075676Please don't make me make an Imperial Fist allied detachment and paint them up as our friends from the world's friendliest subcontinent. Please don't. Please. I don't want to be racist.
So how will GW respond to this?
Will they respond at all?
I have a hard time imagining that a flop like this isn't going to alter their plans at all.
Are they just going to let the game die now?
>>96075423For me its the arms.
>>96074384>my toys look like toys now
>>96075694They won't out and say sorry or anything. At most I could see them releasing the legacies pdf early IF it actually had a lot of the old units/options in it. But that's about it. Actually acknowledging they fucked up and released a crappy product publicly will never happen. Bad for the stock price, if nothing else.
>>96075707>Actually acknowledging they fucked up and released a crappy product publicly will never happenThey have done that twice with Votan and Deathwatch
>>96075694I don't remember any significant response to smegmar Dominions or smegmar Skaventide, and they were even bigger flops and on GW's 2nd largest game system.
>>96075694>I have a hard time imagining that a flop like this isn't going to alter their plans at all.It might but not for models this is the big one, if this fucks up wont matter for their model release schedule because everyone buys models.
Thing is there is no saving this particular drop with out a complete rerelease of the libras with all the options back in the fucking game again.
OR worse they planned for this and are going to drip feed codexes back to the community over the next 2 to 2 and a half years. Which is fucking gay because it means we just pay for the shit we lost again.
>>96075701Go back to the sharty already you tranny.
>>96075718Those don't really matter to anyone. They aren't Space Marines. When you outsell everything else the UK produces, it's kinda a "more equal than others" situation.
>>96075720>OR worse they planned for this and are going to drip feed codexes back to the community over the next 2 to 2 and a half years. Which is fucking gay because it means we just pay for the shit we lost again.This is literally exactly what they are going to do. Didn't they say they're gonna release a book for each legion? They'll just add all the lost options back for those in the legion books/journals. Better pray your legion gets one early and not in the last 6 months of the edition!
>>96075711Only thing they changed about Votann was they nerfed them into the fucking dirt. That's just a number pass, not a things-you-gotta-buy thing like deleting whole units and rejiggering the entire fundamentals of a game like 40k 10E or HH 3.0
>>96075728Nah better pray you get yours in the middle of the cycle so that you actually are not dog shit, if you get your journal first, your gonna be good for all of 3 months then nerfed and power crept, im not fucking doing that again, im not doing this power creep bullshit fuck that.
This games always been shit
Now that we know the rules, how are the actual Saturnine units looking? I imagine the praetor is a melee beatstick, which feels weird since the unit with the same armor is an indirect fire artillery piece. I guess you're not supposed to pair him with matched armor squads? What about the dread, is it good?
>>96075694What are you expecting from them? An apology? GW saying theyre gonna rewrite the zillion books they are already selling?
Even acknowledging that people are upset hurts them - potential customers are best kept in a positive bubble of GW produced info and paid/contracted 'influencers' so they actually buy stuff.
If you tell them that lots of people don't like this product, people are less likely to buy it. And nothing they could do would even satisfy people - this is a very deliberate strategy across all their product ranges, they're not gonna change that because some 30k nerds don't like it.
>>96075728Agreed. They will push out additional units and rules in their DLC journals. I didn't want to believe the anons that said the 3 year cycle was upon us but the writing is on the wall now. They're going to churn shitty content and remove stuff whilst adding new, more boxlocked content constantly, like 40k.
HH will be a fucking e-sport as well. Shit fucking sucks.
>>96075752Pretty uninteresting.
>>96075757>they are already selling?Nobody is buying tho
>>96075752the terminators look pretty mediocre. Slow short ranged, not scary to much of anything at shooting or melee. Overload makes them eliminate themselves, unlike putting a few heavy disintegrators into a vet squad where only the basic troopers sacrifice themselves when overloads happen.
>>96075757I get that, but how do we ruin it for them?
Let's brainstorm a bit.
are there saturnine command squads in the new astartes libers ?
>>96075629Then they did a really bad job by making them worse and bigger
>>96075786That's DLC Book #2 IIRC
>>96075780I don't buy shit from them anymore so what am I gonna do?
The only thing that they care about is the bottom line. If you can convince people to just not get into HH (or only recast) then yeah that works, otherwise they just laugh to the bank and do it again in 3 years
>>96075757>just stay in the positive influencer bubble of safetyWorked very well for DisneyMarvel and Ubisoft.
At a certain point customers are gonna snap and GW will go bankrupt.
>>96075752Praetor is good if he arrives. termis are only goof with plasma, and even then only TS can really use them well. The twin heavy disint is Overload 2 damage 2 means each arm can do 8 AP2 damage to itself.
could someone post the saber sheet?
I'm surprised the box hasn't sold out yet, good on GW finally making enough of something
>>96075757So a good way to go about fucking them over is to burst that bubble then?
Seems doable, once you reach enough people in the right spheres the problem will solve itself as the normie crowd just goes with what the popular opinion is.
Should probably start with trying to convince GW's influencer shills to stop sucking corpo/authority dick, and if that doesn't work then start tearing them down.
chainsword tacs are dead, rip
>>96073383You havenโt actually looked at the rules. Very few legion units outright suck this edition and theyโre all good enough to be usable even if itโs in niche cases
>>96075923Night Raptors with Lightning Claws?
Varagyr with Reaper Autocannons?
Gorgons with Combi-bolters?
>>96075752>saturnine terminatorsSlow bricks with sub-par melee and notable absence of good guns outside the underslung particle shredder. Rules clash with gameplay realities.
>saturnine praetorWith hammer he can throw down hard in melee and challenge most things outside a primarch with a good chance of coming out on top. With some legion gambits he might even put some pressure on a weaker primarch. Gun is dogshit, leave it at home.
>saturnine dreadA dread without a melee weapon is a disgrace, and so is the plasma weapon. Graviton and inversion gun are both good.
>>96073725This is probably what annoys me the most about this cycle. Thereโs shit to bitch about in these books thatโs not shit they explicitly warned us about but instead threads get filled with retards who missed stuff they actually communicated properly for once
>>96075975I'm not surprised by it. I'm annoyed by it.
But on top of that, Tartaros losing fists, IF literally shooting themselves, and the death of the actual consul are all bullshit.
>>96075908Well, sure. Dunno how that helps, but here you go.
>>96075973So what's the loadout for the Praetor then? Hammer + Axe?
>>96073890Probably legacies unit but I wouldnโt be surprised if theyโre saved for an inevitable mk4 rollout like how breachers and assaults were for mk2
Is there a unique consul for TS? If so does anyone have it?
Anyone have the humble rhino page?
>>96075913Murderfucking your game is certainly one way to solve your under-production issues lol
so what does Thermal Diffraction shield do again?
>>96075988What else would it be? It costs peanuts to take both and the fists are fundamentally useless compared to the other weapons. Axe for chaff, hammer for big stuff.
>>96076027-1S for laser, flamer, melta and plasma.
>>96076027-1S to incoming las/melta/plasma attacks
>>96073343Or, you can use those spare tacs as the rapier crew and use the cool fancy le2 armour models for the augur crew (replacing the techmarine helmets for beakies).
>>96076039>>96076041I thought it was supposed to help with the overload? Did the fluff lie?
>>96075923>th-theryre good e-enough, BAKA
>>96076046That part of the rule is "Overloads only Breach on 6, no matter the Breach(x) value"
>>96076046No, it does. Overload means you shoot yourself, so it applies.
>>96076046The overload rule has you take a hit from your weapons. So the plasma overloads will hit you at -1S
Disintegrator doesn't seem to be covered though.
>>96076063>>96076064Neat I guess. Doesn't work for the disintegrators though, right?
>>96075502>just going to cut my losses give up on 30k all togetherPlay older editions of Heresy.
I'm not touching 3.0's rules but I'm gonna use the newer models to make a 1.0/2.0 White Scars army.
>>96076075I never even got a game of 2.0 in, so I'm fully resigned to the fact that I'm a hobby + fluff boomer at this point
>>96075752World Eaters love these guys, you deep strike 6 with a praetor, shoot something up, then on your opponents turn if they shoot you you pop the advanced reaction and they are 2+/4++ 3 wounds with eternal warrior 1.
Then you just charge stuff, and your +1 attacks on the charge make you much scarier. Is the Saturnine Journal gives us a detatchment that lets you prime a unit, then you just chain bound the Praetor with the sergeant and now you have the praetor hitting on 2s and the sergeant hitting on 3 and you just keep killing stuff.
Did TSons get anything that makes volume of fire stronger?
>>96076107Arcana to make all non blast shots rending 5+
>>96075694They wont respond, they will simply release a few journals with updates to legions that feel especially bad, give a few convertible characters and people will forgive and forget all over again sadly.
>>96076104I thought the sarge was identical to the others. Also, aren't they pillowfisted?
>>96076110Did my rotor cannon squad just become scary?
Maybe 3.0 is okay
>>96076052Compared to 2.0 where multiple units were unusably shit, yeah itโs better lmfao
You guys are coping hard if you think this edition is flopping. You aren't the target demographic for this box. Casuals will eat up this slop. If the box doesn't sell well it'll just be because it's expensive, not because of rules
>>96075694Just like with 2.0 theyโll release legacies and shut up the people bitching about nothing lmao
>>960761232.0 was a decent edition with some shit units.
3.0 is a shit edition with slightly more balanced units.
I know which one's easier to fix.
>>96076113Chain bound gives both dudes +1 to hit while near each other, so both buff from it.
>>96076120Its going on my TS rotor team ha
>>96076132Ok sure lmao. Surely the edition where people had to houserule entire major rules and entire unit types to make the game playable was better designed. Written sure, not better designed
>>96076027It also causes abilities like breaching to only go off on 6s if the wound is recieved from overload
Its incredibly fucking retarded rules writing
They made up 2 units that didn't exist before and instead of giving them stats to make them as resilient as they want, they make this stupid rule
...do apothecaries still give fnp?
>>96073685>>96073699How's that gonna work for existing units? I can see that for additional units but I doubt any supplement is gonna give wargear options back to an existing unit.
>>96075985damn bro youโre hilarious !!!
>>96076173They allow you to spend a reaction point to get a FNP roll for that phase
>>96076127It isn't doing well no matter what.
>>96076120Not really. Rending is autowound on hits of X with +1 damage and counts as 6 for wounding.
It's fine for volume of fire, like any other weapon, but you really want this on something with breaching. If you use this on plasma, half your hits are ap2 D2, which is pretty brutal
Autocannons where also really good for it iirc
>>96076138As opposed to:
- IF can straight up shoot themselves, and their LA, RAW doesn't do anything.
- Charges now have a fun shooting phase that will, if successful for the attacker, increase the difficulty of the charge succeeding.
- Increasing herohammer all over the place.
- Deep strike units limited to 2 turns of melee in the whole game (maximum, subsequent units get less, unless Master of Descent is taken, for a slight boost)
- snap shots now disproportionately punishing on SA
- Removal of WLTs, RoWs.
>>96076173No, base rule is boosting saves for statuses. As a reaction you get a pseudo fnp/eternal warrior activation where you lower damage taken by 1 down to 0. Not as strong but better for handling mass fire or defending terminator squads
Did I miss the contemptor? Looks like a lot of the core marine stuff isn't here
>>96076173Nop, they make you more resilient to statuses and give you a reaction which, on a 4+ per model, reduces the damage of an unsaved wound by 1, to a minimum of 1. Only in range.
I don't think they understand how broken this can get desu
>>96076199Last thread I think
4A, w WS/BS 4, 150p base
Iirc
>>96076185>>96076196>>96076202What does this mean for my naked apothecary 20 man tacticals?
>>96076222Good against mass fire and strong status chucking strategies but d2 weapons still kill you
>>96076225Doesn't sound bad though having to deal with reactions for what used to be something so simple and intuitive as a fnp is a pain in the ass. I'll probably get used to it.
>>96076240Its only -1D to 0 btw
More auxilia? or is leaker anon dead again
have we seen recons yet? I heard they lost line
>>96075694>I have a hard time imagining that a flop like this isn't going to alter their plans at allthis box is still going to print them money, dont delude yourself
>>96076271we have the entire marine liber(s), theyre support unit 2 so theyre negative line 2, but are also worth less for kill points
Anyone have the rulebook full file? discord keep teasing it but I am not trusting a discord link
>>96076271Dunno but I hope for plastic mkVI recon squads soon.
>>96076222That you have to pay 1 reaction point to use it and only works once per turn
Otherwise most of tge things that IDed you before are still gonna kill you
You can join them to termies now it seems. That's a muxh better use of them I think
>>96076282These guys are stupid expensive base. Really weird contrast with almost all the other units going down in points
>>96076282goddamn these niggas suck
It's weird they made Attacks Modifier a stat and only meaningfully use it on one single weapon I can find.
Do we have second page for the Caster of Runes? Almost seems like one of the Imperial fist RoW pages is missing. A 3rd page?
>>96076298They really are niche now. Termis and veterans like them. They do passively help prevent statuses. For an editions thats all about statuses, it really easy easy to remove them or prevent them for marines.
>>96076321Yeah there's a couple of things they changed because "now we have more granularity and we don't need a special rule to do it" but then only use it in a handful of profiles in the entire game so why not keep it a special rule?
>>96076329Some they do use - IM is used all over. But I've seen seven uses of AM so far:
- Lascutter, Krak Grenades and Meltabombs have AM 1 (all previously covered by their special rules)
- Twin Dreadnought Fists, Twin Levi Claws, and Twin Lightning Claws (All previously covered in weird ways)
- Chainfist gets -1 (The only real use)
Why bother adding it and using it once?
Is the vokite Kratos + decurion locus combo still a thing in 3rd? Have the decurion rules been leaked?
I saw the main gun went to ap3 and that's already hilarious
>>96076360God bless you anon, all shall tremble before my mighty 300 pt Kratos
>>96076282i can't believe my shotgun recons somehow got even more useless
>>96076282No regular bolters anymore? That was the old default option. I'm not converting my recon company to have shotguns.
>>96076282Any1 know what smokescreen does. Seems like they overcorrected a bit here lol
>>96076382Spend reaction for Shroud 5+, cant if you have searchlights
>>96076376They forgot they dont sell picrel anymore, which is why Mor Deythan get them too.
>>96076385Plastic shotgun sprue in a month (or a plastic recon squad kit).
>>96076390Probably a combo Seeker/Recon upgrade kit
>>96073357Do we have any more Special Rules pages from the Liber?
Someone sell me on the best load out for a Kratos?
>>96076413Whatever you think is coolest
Man I think I could have dealt with the legion changes if HQs just werenโt touched. Why canโt my consuls be customized? Baffling. Iโm one of the lucky ones to have most of my legionโs wargear intact but the HQ thing kills it for me. Maybe Iโll change my mind when the book comes out.
Howโs mechanicum looking?
Also, photos from my event at my LGS today.
>>96076435those NL look gloriously oldschool. Something about that era of model is just so comfy
>>96076435Anyone know if Master of Armour is still a thing? I want to do an IH list with tanks and dreads.
lol
md5: dc86bb6e386237060ff8fdf41328a140
๐
"I've never played a game, I'm never going to play a game but if you don't like the new slop get the hell out of MY community!"
>>96076444Most of the army is actually converted RTB01s lol, super dope collection from the 5e days.
>the night lords vets armed with nothing but bolters beat out and swept a reaver squad through sheer soul
>>96073638Iโm impressed GW has made the Phoenix Power Spear worse in every edition! It looks like they combined the worst parts of its 1.0 & 2.0 rules!
>>96076445Not in the Libers. Cross your fingers for Legacies, otherwise I'm sure it'll be Journalslop
>>96076432>"...and this is my stroke'n hand."
So how good is this bastard in duels now?
>>96076463What does Ahriman threatening you with the implication mean? Force (D) is what?
>Captach YASSH8What am I supposed to H8 my fellow Queens?
>>96076469Force (D)(ick), as in rape
>>96076087ditto. I'm glad I bought 18 primarchs from etsy for $25 each instead of giving GW extra money. It's much more fun painting the entire set of primarchs than having 600 identical yellow fister troops.
>>96076475Don't call it that.
>Remember talking with anons about twin heavy disintegrator vs plasma bombard when the saturnine terminator rules were first revealed
>One of the main points was plasma bombards would be good cause they had more range
>Go to check leaks for other weapon info
>Twin disintegrator and plasma bombard have same range
>Huh
>Check community article
>Both have same range there too
...So is the only reason not to take a twin disintegrator just because it's cheaper and you have a less likely chance of killing yourself? Barrage doesn't seem like nearly enough of a selling point for a 24" weapon on a model moving 5" a turn
Also isn't it a bit fucked up to have posted the article with rules for a new unit for the first time and to just get the rules wrong outright? I know this isn't the first time stuff like this has happened but you'd think they would have been more on top of stuff like that for a new edition.
>>96076498>twin disintegratorIm not shooting guns that can cause myself 16 wounds of Ap2 damage
My gaming group wants to jump ship to OPR but it just seems like 10th ed run-off, any advice on reeling them back to stay with 2.0?
>>96076524Tell them OPR is for fags
>>96076524>damn, 3.0 is removing all these weapon options and flavor from my legion>I know, lets play a generic game system with even less flavor!I don't see the logic.
>>96076524OPR is just doubling down on over simplification in certain aspects. 2.0 with some changes stolen from 1.0 and 3.0. Eg
>Reserve roll per deepstrike unit>Deepstrike scatter per unit>Unit can only react once per turn/unit cant cause more than one reaction at the same time>See into but not through terrainThen its just to being a dick and taking apothecaries in multiple phalanx warder units
>>96076498They're Barrage (1); you can teleport them in behind a building, doublecunt everything on the other side of that building without any possible retaliation at any stage, and laugh.
What's the legion to play if I like the idea of dueling characters? EC?
>>96076594Do you want to duel Characters or Primarchs?
>>96076601Both sound cool, though I think i would prefer characters just so that I don't feel obligated to bring a primarch to every game.
>>96076594If you're going based entirely on gambits and how good their characters/duelists would be, I think Space Wolves are definitely up there just for the sheer fact they can lock someone in a cage match and they can't leave until either of you actually die, and they have access to the Great Frost Blade which isn't a bad dueling weapon. White Scars' could also be a fun choice; their gambit seems like it could be interesting, since you can basically gamble winning the iniative with the strike high, strike low gimmick they have which turns every power fist duelist into anime protagonists that can smack the enemy before they even blink. They also have that whole japanese/oriental vibe to them which is basically begging for cool 1v1's
>>96076608RavenGuard gambit to strike first with a Thunderhammer is really good, but only if you use a super weapon like a Thunderhammer not a worthless 1h power sword (if you fail to hit or fail to wound, the gambit just removes all the rest of your attack)
Salamanders are extra good duelists. Gambit for +3 initiative whenever you want but afterwards you pull a groin muscle and suffer 3 autowounds only at AP5 (so you get your 2+ or 3+ save to ignore them entirely) that FNP also lowers. Regular gambits when you don't need a basically guaranteed strike-first. Their duelists can all buy magic weapons like normal thammer/pfist/paxe but with +1 free attack extra.
>>96076684>RavenGuard gambit to strike first with a Thunderhammer is really goodTruly, the assassin's weapon of choice.
>>96076663y tho? he boxlocked himself, it's not like his army is unplayable
>>96076688True factt - No MMA fighter has ever left the octagon victorious after being hit in the head with a Thunderhammer before they even rung the starter bell.
>>96076684>not using the CHADturnine hammer as Horus intended
1725
md5: 4df857a6c3e41bedef6c2a9606d23eec
๐
>>96076707>filenameA True Son of Ferrus will use a boxnought
>>96076707Does WS4 not fuck them here?
>>96076608I don't have the page saved, but I believe the deathguard centurion in a prime slot can become resilient (which gives him +1 wound and Eternal Warrior 2) which basically makes their defenses near primarch level with a thunderhammer only dealing 1 wound when it manages to wound them. Their gambit is to set your toughness to enemy WS, so if a WS8 primarch attacks you can suddenly be toughness 8 and with EW2 so most primarch weapons deal just 1 wound, he could manage to actually survive dueling a primarch for a round and live to at least get his attacks (and maybe put 1-2 wounds on the primarch)
I find that kinda funny. Like the Lord of the Noldor elves going up to the dark god, challenging him to a 1v1, tanking god's blows and stomps and then slicing the fuck out of his foot so bad he's in pain for the rest of eternity before the challenger dies from his wounds.
>>96076707Really funny combo
Ironclad Dreadnought charges a Sons of Horus squad, challenges SoH character to a 1v1 Duel
SoH character uses the "your weapon skill is only 4? You're not worth my fucking time" Gambit to not suffer any penalties for saying no to the gambit. His squad 11v1 the dreadnought and beat it up like the street fighter car bonus level.
>>96076722It potentially does, but there's a chance that whoever they're duelling might not even be able to injure them cause of their toughness.
>>96076594Iron Warriors. Use Pert. :^)
>>96076663scenic bases look absolutely fucking horrible. Can't see shit, it's just "welcome to today's episodes of Hoarders"
>>96076693Cause the rules suck?
>>96076749They were fighting in the crusade into Space India. Show some respect for what they had to fight through, what they went through. Hordes of shit and trash that make the Tyranids and Orks look small.
>>96076707You see was it really so hard to make a Mortifactor consul with this ability?
I just realized IH gravitats aren't legal anymore. BA meltatats are the same thing because moritats don't get "plasma pistols" they get "overcharged plasma pistols" which are a separate weapon as confirmed on the plasma weapons table. It's like the more you look at it, the worse it gets.
>>96076749scenic bases CAN look good with the right pantjob and setting
the problem is this is the most washed out and blobby EC army i've ever seen and they get lost in the base instantly
Started building destroyers in the last days of 2.0. Any clue on what detachment slot (read:slop) theyโll go in when/if they get legacy rules?
>>96076769If we get them, they might be vanguard or shock assault.
>>96074439>I-1 +1S Ap2 is way too strong for a normal power weapon.Why? Anyone with power armour is hitting the wielder first (and Character wielders no longer hit with impunity). Anyone with Artificer armour has extra wounds and is protected by Invulns. Especially now HQ basically got +1W. They can take it.
Legatine axes arent that good and theyre a legion special weapon reserved for suzerains and characters.
What do Legatines do this time around?
>On deathshroud? it probably isNo, on a Centurion. Power Scythes now cost the very same as a power fist. Terranics are S+2 Breaching 5+ D2. They should be comparable.
>>96074691Interesting
>>96076769Not sure, but the Legacies PDF can't be more than a few weeks out now.
>>960767752 more weeks, if the July 26th release date is to be believed
>>96076688Its not a ninja spin move, its a decapitation strike. No head means mission accomplished.
>>96076774>Terranics are S+2 Breaching 5+ D2If you translated their 2.0 stats into 3.0, they would be S+2 AP3 Breaching 5+ Shred 5+ D1, not D2.
This is because they only got Murderous on a 5+, but now they always get it on. DA got the biggest buff to any legion specific blade and have half a dozen special detachments, and yet they claim to be the most affected by the nerf
>"Our trait is as bad as the Word Bearers was in 2.0. Nobody should be treated like they are Word Bearers!">[Proceeds to Fight Twice]
Goonhammer says Hatred for the Chaplain is on the Crozium but it's not. Do thy know something we don't? That seems really specific to jsut be wrong. Unless its on in one Liber but not the other?
Anyone got a leaked image for recon squads?
>>96074533Jesus Christ, they left the blank space and simply decided not to give them shrapnel bolters.
>>96076824They'll sell it back to you with a 40 dollar journal
>>96076798the fight twice is once per game on one unit, costs 1 of a limited amount of reaction points and lets the enemy fight twice as well.
The legion trait does nothing, the gambit does nothing, the plasma squads do nothing, the terminators perform the exact same role as everyone else's deathstar squad (getting focus fired to death by enemy's dedicated anti-terminator hunting squad)
It's overall an enormous downgrade for dark angels, they'll be bottom of the winrate.
>>96076812I only see breaching on it. It would be ebin if one Liber got a different hatred crozius.
>>96076820Posted in the last 3 threads, I including this one.
>>96076857fuck me, thanks I'm retarded
>>96076812>>96076837Wargear rules are baked into unit profiles, why would chappies have rules:none if their irreplaceable wargear gave them rules:hatred?
>>96076869>>96076820>>96076282>No more bolters, bayonets or chainswordsWhy does James keep canceling my planned hobby projects?
Everyones happy now right
>>96076887Yeah
in BIZARRO WORLD
Am I allowed to like the saturnine dreadnought and terminator.
>>96076902You can like whatever you like anon :).
>>96076902No, you fucking dickhead. How about I like my balls in your mothers mouth?
>>96076902You are, although I have to wonder why you like the dreadnaught. Having no melee arms on a model that tanky seems pointless.
Is Zone Mortalis in the rulebook or is it a later thing?
>>96076745is this supposed to be good in this need shitty edition ?
Serious question.
>>96076902everyone's got permission to have shit taste, you don't have permission to brag about it or tell other people. If someone wants to silently eat ketchup on steak, fine, but no blogposts.
>>96076836>The legion trait does nothing2.0 Word Bearers send their regards
>an enormous downgrade for dark angelsWe're all bleeding today
>they'll be bottom of the winrateThis has never been true. Especially not with your Terranic Greatswords of Shred (2+)
>>96076693why do people still lock themselves in legions after 30 years of GW ? don't they know /yourdudes/ is superior ? The thousands of people reselling armies or having to repaint the whole of it because it's the wrong color every fucking FAQ and Edition is astounding.
>>96076917A praetor only has 4 wounds, so good enough for one hit with the siege drill. Any terminator praetor will require two hits unless using the Finishing Blow gambit, but still good enough.
>>96076936Horus Heresy is the historical wargame of the Warhammer sci-fi universe. You don't go up to Napoleonic players and tell them to invent their own nation. That's not the appeal of the setting/games.
>>96076745>certain deathexciting, it would be a great time to challenge that monster with a fist termie centurion
>>96076936Are you fucking retarded?
Does anyone have Zardu's rules? I missed them if they were in an earlier thread
So, the Emperor wasn't considered a god by 30k right? He was very particular about not being called a god. But they still called the conflict the Heresy? Heresy against what? There was no Imperial Cult yet? Or did they call the war something else?
>>96073504What a sick boot licker cuckozoid
>>96076663>Selling your army because the new edition makes it weakLiteral faggot tier.
>>96074405Why by playing 2.0 of course
>>96074952I can't overlook the tiny brainlet legs and the same five poses
>>96075123Correct and that is why I JUST buy Tortuga bay now
Anyone know if the wound chart is the same
>>96074675Imagine trusting GW and buying their products after what they did to Fantasy and 40k. Shameful display, really.
But you know, paypiggies gotta paypiggy.
>>96077947It is the same one from 2.0
>>96076663Many such cases
>>96075694They don't give a shit about the people who play their game.
>you will not be missedNever forget they sent that message and meant it.
They're so concieted they've got their eyes on "mainstream appeal" and actually think a bunch of normies, women and unga boongas are going to come buy plastic British army men and take part in the most male hobby of all time.
Yes they are that delusional.
Am I right in thinking that Salamanders only get Pyroclasts & Fire Drakes?
Also has anyone got the loyalists table of contents for research purposes
>>96076812they dont know shit bc they're goonhammer
>>96074725>>96074657>>96074646I brought receipts. People criticized GW shills for not decrying GW, and for telling us to just snap our minis and take clippers to them. CCs then say "who said that?", to which SN battle reports got quoted as well as the goonhammer article. Guess what? Goonhammer staff are ALSO MODS ON THE 30K DISCORD. Got banned for handing them receipts, and when I asked them for comment, they said "no, I don't".
https://imgur.com/a/conflict-of-interest-3B7uYLu
This may be a bad time, but... how would one go about making traitor Iron Hands?
>>96078332Wow, what petty bitches in need of touching grass. Who cares how crazy a unit was? I don't think anything has the same power level in 3.0 that they had in 2.0. If something was too good a change is needed, fine, but that doesn't mean it deserves to be bad. People say the same thing about Mor Deythan losing volkite, they don't get AP2 in 3.0 and need to sit still so it's night and day.
Butchering models is never deserved, full stop. Glad you kept receipts. I never liked GH so I'm not surprised they're this petty.
>>96075752Not great. Theyre very expensive specialist units. Good vs custodes or SA I guess.
>>96076498The twin disintigrator kills you, and is also just not cost effective into low value targets (because it kills you)
Double plasma bombard is for clearing whole swathes of SA or beating up on tacticals, twin disintigrator is for gunning down expensive elites or automata/dreads.
>>96076798Its a buff for terranic greatswords vs 2W models (particularly those in power armor), its a nerf vs everything heavier. A terranic GS getting a 5+ used to be the end of everyone, now its just a thunder hammer hit. Thats what they are now, thunder hammers with half the AP2 but going at one higher initiative.
>>96076774>Why?Because its really fucking good?
>Anyone with power armour is hitting the wielder firstNaked power armor dudes dont really matter. No one cares if you go after chainswords. Going at I-1 still has you go before every actually powerful weapon in the game (or at the same time as TGS).
>Legatine axes arent that goodThey very much are, they were monsters in 2.0 and will still be good.
>No, on a Centurion.Its a sgt weapon, not a character weapon. It shouldnt be on your centurion.
>>96078148Honestly if fucking leaks for 1/3 existing editions make you completely give up on a hobby you need to stop being a fucking coward and just kill yourself
>>96080060not giving up on the hobby
giving up on GW
There's other options out there in case you forgot
Unless you made warhammer into your entire personality, in which case I feel bad for you
>>96080060Anon, GW isn't an hobby and for all we know he is going to use that money to get into another wargame.
>>96080081So thatโs why you throw a bitch fit like 40K tournament players when shit gets moved around. Just throw a tantrum and sell presumably years of your life when your dreadnought loses 1 ws in 1/3 editions. Walrus and tourneyqueer behavior
>>96080232hey if you think you owe GW your time and money go ahead
I got my money's worth out of my heresy models so i'll just put in a box and pull out another game's models while you seethe that i'm gone
![implication-dennis[1]](/images/tg/1750667071728948.gif)
