Damage control edition
Previous Heresy:
>>96104389>HH 3.0 Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://litter.catbox.moe/9zh539zknqu9vqso.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>New Edition upon ushttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
ใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
TQ: Will the legacy PDF give you any kind of succor or is your army still fucked?
>>96108206Do you have the master of descent datasheet?
>>96108179 (OP)I get my Deliverers and both Destroyers. My remaining concern is weapon options for consuls for pick up games as my group already grandfathered them in.
>>96108179 (OP)>TQI don't trust them not to fuck the wargear options.
Fucked. With a sandpaper dildo.
What would a "fluffy" DG list look like? Lots of destroyers? Do they lean more towards vehicles or infantry advances?how do they feel about melee vs range? Would they use nasty phospex bombardments or ride terminators up on LRs?
>TQ
I don't see Jump pack Rampagers, so "fucked" is an exaggeration, but I'd like to play my Legion and not just generics-with-nails
Does anyone have a good recipe for pre-fall word bearer grey? Something kind of like picrel
Additionally would bright green or bright orange be the better contrasting color (if one wanted to paint plasma or volkite or something)
>>96108258Combined arms and chemical weapons.
>>96108258All Legions used all units.
However, DG was known for use of flamers and heavy infantry.
>>96108274Can't Red Hand Assaulters take cadere weapons? That may be your count-as ghetto.
I req the exemplary battle pdfs for 1.0, in exchange I give the entirety of 1.0(other than those pdfs).
gofile.io/d/nG9reC
>>96108179 (OP)Is there a comprehensive list of units that were removed?
>>96108295We won't know until the PDFfile is released, but in 2.0, any character or sergeant could, and now they canโt, sooooo
>>96108277https://youtu.be/mkAvVQtaAAw?si=hm4jAS91RTprOZAw&sfnsn=mo
>>96108318No, because we don't have the full legacies rules yet.
>>96108318Awful screenshot on previous thread
It's basically named characters, baneblade variants, non marine planes and nullificators/nullificator prime iirc
>>96108339The baneblade variants still got SA rules no?
>>96108179 (OP)>TQIt might unfucks parts of my army, but doesn't unfuck my wargear options and or the core rules that mean I will need to bring an extra 4 or 5 consuls to actually run my army.
Also the majority of the stuff should have been included in the Libers and GW's reasoning is limp wristed and limp dicked
>>96108348Yes but no legion rules I think
Armoured Spearhead first draft
let me know what you think, i'll be briefly summarizing things instead of using legal-ese
>Master of Armour
>points: undecided
>Slot: High Command (technically, more on this below)
special rules
>adds an additional set of special rules to either a single sicaran, or predator (I REALLY want to include a kratos on this but it may be unfair)
>+1BS, 5++ invun, master of the legion and +1 to repair rolls, 6+ if it doesnt have it already
>tank replaces its force org slot with high command
>if he is your warlord, legion decurions gain the command slot (note, this does not replace the armour slot on the tanks they are taken in, thus you'll have a max of 3 decurions in a standard base force org)
>if he is your warlord, he gains access to the armoured spearhead apex detachment, but may not select any others (with the exception of LoW?)
apex detachment
>3 armour slots
>3 heavy transport slots
>all gain prime advantage
(may just be 3 armour slots with no heavy transport, or only the armour slots get a prime advantage)
>restrictions: armour slots may only be the same tank as the master of armour, units may only take the following prime advantage:
>prime advantage: units gain vanguard (1)
let me know what you think, if something is too broken, too shit, or you dont understand it at all and need me to clarify
>>96108083Long las wouldn't suit Veletarii. Their combat doctrines were modelled on the old Saturnine Void hoplites who were void combat specialists because the people of Saturn all lived in cramped void sealed environments. Whether those be space stations, spaceships or moonbound mining outposts.
Long las would be better for the conventional line infantry who came after. Those guys only started showing up because the auxilia needed training and equipment for fighting in open spaces.
Same with the tanks and such too honestly. The Veletarii did make use of sentinels during zone mortalis operations tho because those could easily bring heavy weapons and still fit in corridors.
>>96108360LOW don't have to be the same faction as your primary detachment, so it's still possible to play them I guess.
Is there a rule that decreased stats for characters attached to units or vice versa?
>>96108368Yea but at filthy peasant BS3
>>96108370Decreased? No, you use the highest score available between every model in a unit when testing Leadership/CL/Int etc
>>96108370From the overseer entry it seem joining characters to units from a different faction fucks up their Ld and Cool
That's what they used to have in 1.0 too, unless you took the space marine crew upgrade.
Do characters like esoterists and praevians let you take a detachment from the auxiliary detachment list or just their own daemon/robot detachment?
>>96108247>Fluff text says ir coordinates drop pod assualts>Can't do a drop pod assault with himWhack. The "drop tacs on all objectives" argument fails if drop assauls worked like in 2.0 where the pods need to cluster around the first (which should be the one with the MoD)
>>96108370There's only a rule where if units from different factions are joined together everybody gets a -1 Ld and CL
What melee weapon should I give my tac sergeants for salamanders?
Can a Legion Champion use the SoH reaction Warrior Pride?
>>96108365Any argument about it not suiting their function went out the airlock the moment they were created. Fuckers go into battle with long, Heavy laser rifles, rather than shotguns and autopistos (like Navy Breachers) that would be perfect for such environments. 40k Navy prefers auto weapons because lasguns because they have less penetration, thus less chance of puncturing a hull or destroying something important. For void troopers they don't even have boarding crafts (like Dreadclaws, canonically used by Navy), just a civilian transport with an ad hoc door gun. Truly the elites second only to Space Marines.
>>96108403>>Can't do a drop pod assault with himYes you can, his vox affects all deep strike units, whether theyre jump, drop pods, termite drills or whatever else. The only things he cant guarantee are flyers and outflank.
>>96108399You can take any auxiliary detachment "for them", but they unlock a specific detachment for the general use of the army.
>>96108426Either a power maul or a thunder hammer. Maybe nothing.
>>96108403Yeah, limited drop assaults like that would have worked fine and I have no idea why GW didn't do that.
Maybe you can get an aux detachments where drop pods can get a prime advantage which works that way.
>>96108442You're still limited to one deepstrike per turn so you can't do a drop pod assault.
Man mech list building is even harder than before. Now I don't just have to keep track of which units need buffs, but also which guys are smart enough to cast the buffs and what unit I'm going to actually stick them into for protection that matches their faction.
>>96108426Unless you give them master sergeant, they're A1 by default now. Not really worth it.
>>96108426A chainaxe if you are not improving him, anything else is probably a waste of points
If you are making him a master sergeant then forge crafted TH looks really good
Bit of a waste of points but having a tactical sergeants with 3 WS5 TH attacks is pretty funny
Reminder that if your "elite/retinue" terminator unit isn't good at killing regular terminators, and is only capable against power armour, then they aren't real elites - they are Heavy Assault in drag
>>96108434Volkite weapons would have almost no chance of penetrating hull either, they're not particle weapons like standard imperial "las" weapons they're heat rays. Chargers fill the same roll as shotguns but are significantly stronger so thats what the Veletarii use.
As for the dreadclaw thing, Veletarii almost certainly have an entire fleet of air support vehicles, we're just never gonna see them because we'll need to get through the space marine resin backlog first.
Also don't you dare insult the pig, its the lasgun of shuttles.
>>96108502All terminators suck at killing other terminators compared to veterans
You are all arguing about who gets to be second place
>>96108502Power swords should have higher or equal AP to power firsts. You cant change my mind. AP3 power swords was the most damaging single change I can think of that happened to warhammer.
>>96108528>Power swords should have higher or equal AP to power firsts.wut
>>96108538Power weapons used to all ignore armour saves entirely back in the day.
>>96108258Bolters (Tacticals), Flamers (TSS), Melta (HSS). With a lot of terminators, siege vehicles, some transports, and chemical weapons as special gear.
>>96108546Correct, and that was dumb and lame And 6e changing it was good.
>>96108502but my elite terminators have vanguard (3), expendable (2), FNP, and hit at initiative AP2 on the charge. They're laser focused on killing line units and then dying.
>>96108566Take all the time you need, anon.
>>96108546Power fists did that also so I'm not really sure the point you're making. Power swords were never better at killing anything, they just had the advantage of not going last.
>>96108562Your elite terminators are ws4, theyre not elite theyre despoilers in drag.
>>96108574nta but power weapons and powerfists effectively had the same ap, which is what he's saying.
Melee just used to be giga lethal back in the day.
>>96108516>Also don't you dare insult the pig, its the lasgun of shuttles.I think Toyota makes great trucks, but if your army's main battle tank is a Hilux with an autocannon on it...
>>96108553so the Terrans stayed loyal and the Barbarus joind Morty right?
>>96108554Wrong, wrong, wrong.
It made the random squad leader carrying a power weapon truly impactful and cool.
>>96108572https://gofile.io/d/YCD6So
>>96108590The smallest dropship used by the solar auxilia that isn't that shuttle is the shark attack boat which at HH scale would be almost a meter long.
>>96108585chainswords also used to just be "close combat weapons", because there were essentially only three melee weapons. Power weapon. Lightning claw. power fist. It was lame.
>>96108582Jokes on you, that's canonically true
My local store has the 2.0 starter box for full retail and I kind of want to buy it. 315 US dollarydoos.
>>96108624more complicated, or specifically more variety doesn't necessarily make it a better system, especially when there are frequently 'best option' picks, and others are just objectively garbage.
>>96108596You'll never believe what happened when the Death Guard deployed armoured elements at Istvaan.
>>96108624Used a chapter command squad with power weapons to style on people with power fist/thunder hammer terminators back in the day. Sure, Str 4, but with the large number of attacks that didn't matter. It upset a lot of people lol.
>>96108364Dunno. Will need to compare it to an actual Solar Auxilia tank commander to see what they get over a regular tank, and how they interact with their detachments
What are the pros and cons of making a Master of Armor a High Command option, as opposed to a regular Command? No Prime, i guess. But maybe it would be okay that they don't have MotL - if you want one, get the actual Praetor? Idk, a balance thing.
Castrmen Orth was a Centurion and didn't have MotL. On the other hand, he was noted as being perhaps the youngest officer ever in that position, commanding a full armored battalion.
As for the Detachment, maybe only the Armour slots gain the advantage? What advantage can they even get? No WS or A; guess it's only BS?
>>96108635Can't you haggle them down?
The book is not valid anymore and that's a big chunk of it
>>96108300Thank you kindly anon, some of these will be most useful.
truck
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>>96108590>if your army's main battle tank is a Hilux with an autocannon on it...Inshallah, brother.
It is tempting to just always take a primarch to have more prime slot troops.
>>96108647high command was mostly just so hes by himself in a force, no multiple masters of armour, and to give him a slot other than armour+command like the decurions
the advantage I was gonna give them is vanguard 1, so they can get some vp for objective play, dont want to give them a BS bonus because they never had that before and may lead to some bullshit
the detachment slots took macrotek as direct inspiration
>>96108648I was thinking about going back on the 26th and seeing where they were at with it.
>>96108640They did a bit o' trolling hehehe
>>96108614So the Solar Auxilia, canonically second only to Space Marines, are worse equipped than the Imperial Navy of post-Heresy? Remember when Xiphons were used by humans before Marines adopted them and now we only can have them with Marines? Then there's Stormbird variants that were used by the Army. And predecessors to the Stormbird that predate Space Marines and were used post-Heresy. But we can't mix units because that makes Paul Marketing seethe. Merely allowing Marines to take some automatas is borderline, but they can get away with it because they're Marines.
>>96108682They really should just release Valkyries, Vultures and the other one for SA. Not to diss on Arvuses, but no way the dropzone specialists of the Imperial Army don't get Valkyrie airframes lmao
On the scale of 0-10, how over is it?
>>96108590The Arvus is exactly what it needs to be, its a flying Rhino. Is the Rhino bad because the Land Raider exists?
>>96108696the over is just beginning
cant wait for your pic related slop to be a reveal on friday
>>96108682From a logical perspective what would be the point of using anything smaller than a shark assault boat when the auxilia is a mostly mechanized force in-setting? They already have the arvus for those behind the enemy lines sabotage actions.
>>96108682The Solar Auxilia kept Iron pattern cohorts so they can take Castellax and Thallax as well. You even get to make your lasrifles expendable (1) lmao.
>>96108698False equivalence. A better one would be "Should Land Raiders cease to exist because there's Rhinos?" or "Should there be no Spartans because there's Land Raiders?"
The fact that there's Land Raiders, Explorator Land Raiders and Achilles Land Raiders should be sufficient argument for the Solar Auxilia to have Valkyries, Vultures and Vendettas.
>>96108704There's just one issue. The chick in that art is hot, which is one thing GW will never accept.
>>96108704Nah, friday's gonna be the new Skitarii
>>96108694>>96108682If you want to play with chimeras and valkyries there is a system just for you.
>>96108716gooners like you make the problem worse
>actually shitty lore changes is good because it makes my peepee hard, and I need to tell everyone how much of a gooner I am!fuck off
I dunno what all this doomposting about rules I won't play or read is about, but I'm gonna enjoy building and painting my cool toy soldier space men when they arrive in the mail soon
>>96108712You're not wrong, The Solar Auxilia should absolutely get heavier air transports and gunships and the fact that they don't is depressing. They have had the Aurox get banished to legacy too.
Neither of those things mean we should shit talk the Arvus tho.
>>96108698Is the Rhino primarily used as a cargo hauler with any weaponry added to it an improvised modification, rather than a purpose built military combat vehicle?
>>96108725talons book is delayed and releases in a few months, clearly for release with a model wave
friday is the perfect place to announce the models
>>96108728I never said it was a good change.
Just that GW can't sculpt a decent looking female face.
The rest is just you projecting.
>>96108728>>96108704It's getting to the point where doomfaggots are making up shit to get mad about, this is pathetic
>>96108728Yea cuz shitty lore changes just to push tranies into the narrative is so much better
>>96108726>completely ignores anything that was saidI accept your concession.
>>96108738>Is the Rhino primarily used as a cargo hauler with any weaponry added to it an improvised modification, rather than a purpose built military combat vehicle?That is literally what a rhino is, yeah
>>96108739It may be, but I'm more convinced it'll be Skitarii.
>>96108716Are there actually any hot characters in warhammer full stop? I feel like everyone (even the guys) are kinda uggo
>>96108742no one is talking about trannies
>>96108731Same, I'll probably never even play a game but I will enjoy mustering my legion.
>>96108750>lorelet tries to argue over nothing
>>96108754Sometimes in art, almost never in models.
>>96108696The doomers have now become the ones saying 'Just wait until the legacies rules are out, then you'll see!'
Should tell you everything really, kek.
>>96108696>looking at all the Xitter influencers and articles argue about pronouns used in the creation process of astartes, instead of pushing back against the poor decision making for HH3.0.This hobby won't be good again until we publicly lynch these people.
>>96108749I concede that 40k is the game you would rather play than be here.
>>96108452Would be nice if deepstrikes did allow:
1. As many units to come in, as long as each of them passes their Reserves roll
2. Allowed a disordered charge on arrival
3. Scattered. No mishap table: whoever cannot be placed within a 6" radius of the first deployed mini just dies and that's it.
anons please if you have solar aux, can you show the leaks
So have the Saturnine Pre-orders increased after the PDF reveals or what?
>legion detachment has a prime support slot
>the only things I can give it are logistical advantage or combat veterans
>I can now jump through hoops to have rapier batteries with better leadership
What the fuck even is the point? They have to be adding more for marines later.
>>96108763Rhinos are basic bitch STC utility vehicles, they're not purpose built warmachines from the Dark Age of Technology like the baneblade.
>>96108732fuck little pardo
>>96108562>>96108632Ebon keshig are Heavy Assault. They're not Heavy Assault masquerading as Elites or Retinue; they're just regular Heavy Assault.
Heavy Assault is good against troops, Elites are good against Heavy Assault
>>96108819I was looking at them, and they seem like they're just flat upgrades from regular tartaros squads. They lose combi-bolters but get a lot in return for costing 35 ppm instead of 30.
Gotta get some recasts for sure.
>>96108819So seekers should be used to kill terminators, gotcha.
When GW releases the giant legacy pdf, will there be a way to see the edits? Like when changes or additions were made? A deep dive definitely needs to be done
>>96108819>>96108826If you are just going to assault troops you don't need ap2 at initiative and you get a lot more out of having twin LC against MEQs imo
arvus
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>>96108795Imperium builds them as military vehicles for their elite soldiers (and Predators were DAoT era battle tanks) while Arvus Lighters are used as cargo shuttles and utility vehicles, not as combat vehicles.
>>96108831>30" FP2 Breaching(4+) kraken bolterschecks out, they fuck terminators up
>>96108434>40k Navy prefers auto weapons because lasguns because they have less penetration, thus less chance of puncturing a hull or destroying something importantGuns should also kill other soldiers. Meanwhile regular shotguns couldn't even kill M3 Astronauts, as the suit is made of kevlar.
They'd just use your regular indoor guns like lascarbines or volkite serpentas. Or meltaguns :)
If the hull gets a hole, it gets a hole - it's just a 1 atmosphere pressure difference. You could overcome that with magnetized boots, googles and an O2 hose until you reached the nearest airlock
>>96108738The Land Raider isnt even a purpose built military vehicle anon. It was an all terrain exploration vehicle used to survey death worlds and other hostile environments. Weapons were optional additions used to protect yourself against alien megafauna or pirates during the DAOT.
The Rhinos the same, a multirole explorer/light transport with a hundred different modular variants that are all cross compatible. Thats just how STC designs work, everything was built to do as many different jobs as possible with only minor modifications to make developing new worlds easier during the DAOT.
The Arvus being a cargo freighter that also sometimes deploys soldiers isn't unusual its par for the course, there's like a dozen different Aevus variants all built to transport different things, the variant we use just has extra armour on the front and sides to protect it from small arms fire and smoke launchers to help it hide better.
I don't see anything in the legion advanced reactions saying that they can be used once per game. Is there a universal rule that covers this, or are they repeatable this edition?
>>96108832Not really, no.
>>96108852Some advanced reactions can be used multiple times and some only once, depending on the reaction in question.
>>96108432I say yes. Legion Heralds fill a weird niche; those rules would be better on a Champion. And their Fear used to go on a Chaplain.
>>96108838They're also 3A base instead of 2A. Add Expendable (2) and FNP(6+) on top of that and they're just plain better at the role for only 5 points more per model.
>>96108832probably not, programs like latex compile a new .pdf every time you run it so there's no history in the metadata.
read
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>>96108859fucking baller. this makes me like the EC regular and WE hereticus reactions way more.
>>96108841NTA but it wasn't unarmed when it was first introduced in HH. 2.0 was far more focused with balance rather than fluff so they scrapped every single option on it but now after the bitching from the community they released the model with the multilaser on. The fluff blurb on the 1.0 version even mentions that the SA one is an armed variant.
>>96108875sorry, I looked at the rules for the cool legions who get nice things this edition
>>96108841STC designs are all colonial self defence tools. More or less everything the imperium uses in 30k is the DAOT equivalent of strapping an autocannon to the back of a pick up. The galaxy was just such a shit place that DAOT colonies had instruction manuals from the pick up developers on the specifics of how to mount and use it safely.
All the actual professional military shit was powered by AI god machines hanging out near the core worlds. When they machines went rogue they took most of the clarktech with them.
>>96108523What kills Assault Veterans in melee? Has to be in melee - shooting is its own thing
>>96108905Don't kinkshame.
>>96108922exploding mechanofaggots
>>96108851I want to paint a non-military Rhino to basically be Necromunda + Kill Team terrain.
Does the Deimos or other Rhino make more sense for that?
>>96108922Depends how many fists they'll be able to spam, but if they're limited to power weapons/chainswords then WS4 terminators will beat them, but not slaughter them
>>96108922assault veterans with LCs would be the fastest thing, probably
>>96108922Basically everything? Theyre not exactly tough. T4 3+ with at most a 5++ isnt exactly super impressive.
>>96108792What would you want to give your Rapiers, if unrestricted?
>5 Prime advantages>3 are melee improvements restricted to characters>1 is "fuck this HeroHammer shyte i just want a vehicle">1 is +1LdLegion-agnostic Primes looking a tad basic not gonna lie
>>9610892210 guys with WS4 power fists kill 6 of them on average, even with hitting into WS5
LR
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>>96108851>The Land Raider isnt even a purpose built military vehicle Literally is and was. You might want to read some fluff, rather than just be wrong to get sexual gratification for being corrected.
>>96108902And as I've said several times before, and as is stated in Book 4, the armament on the Arvus is an improvisation, rather than its primary function. And it's stated on several occasion the Arvus is only one of several small craft the SA use. But for some reason we're not allowed to imagine using anything but the holy Arvus, because Bligh took what resin FW had and slapped some 30k rules on it, so it's holy scripture now.
>>96108902I love how the other guy here
>>96108841 cropped out the part of the quote that made it clear the Auxilia Arvus was a variant and not just literally a cargo hauler.
>>96108792You can give them true believers.
>>96108981What would you want it to be? +1BS? +1WS? Prime benefits are nice but not army defining or necessary. Thats good. You dont need to go out of your way to get as many as possible.
Its just generically nice stuff that makes the unit slightly better without making it overbearing.
>>96108997They also say baneblades are DAoT scout tanks in Epic, none of it makes any sense
>>96108792Those are both pretty good options
>>96109005>They also say baneblades are DAoT scout tanks in EpicYou're free to find that quote, because despite everyone saying it over and over for decades, nobody has been able to produce examples. Same with Leman Russes being tractors and whatever else people have come up with.
>>96108985I really wished we did, they would be a fun addition. Maybe we'll see some in ligma.
>>96108987You can't expect much from people that want to run their 40k armies in HH.
>>96108985>Literally is and was. You might want to read some fluff, rather than just be wrong to get sexual gratification for being corrected.Stop projecting.
>"During the lost days of mankind's golden age the land raider, armoured and equipped for exploration, was used to scout the most hostile of alien worlds, it was only in later more warlike times that it would be converted into one of the most potent warmachines in the imperium."
>>96109017I think people like it because as military information became more and more accessible with the advent of the internet, everyone realized that predators/russes/land raiders/baneblades are all stupid designs that don't seem advanced or competent at all.
So the fan-fluff turning into "They use armed and armored tractors and exploration vehicles because the Mechanicus literally worships STCs" makes sense, especially when non-Mechanicum vehicles like the Custodes/SoS tanks don't have that same design stigma.
>>96108981Something not boring as hell.
>>96109042How many arvuses are people running in 40k
>>96108987How does the rest of the paragraph make the Arvus less of a cargo shuttle?
stp
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>>96109017>Same with Leman Russes being tractors and whatever else people have come up withThat one is just getting it the wrong way around. Some tractors are Leman Russes.
>>96109017Russes being improvised death traps comes straight from Warhawk. It's not even old fluff.
>>96109062Lmao. Are you part of the team writing the HH rules?
>>96108981>>3 are melee improvements restricted to characters
Only two are, or do you count master sgt as a "character locked upgrade" when it only affects actual units?
>>96109069Theres a difference between "the design isnt very good" and "theyre a repurposed agricultural vehicle"
>>96109079Since the Arvus can be armed again we might see the old text come back for 3.0. Wouldn't that be funny.
>>96109060Soon to be quite a lot, since you can charge out of transports now. Arvus drop axes are a go!
>>96109110It would make me smile.
Am I crazy or can squads take Logistical Benefit as their Prime?
>>96109121They can. Its only limitation is that its 1 per detachment.
>>96109050Makes you wonder what excuse all the transdimensional aliens with guns that reverse your polarity and suck you through a black hole have to losing to a bunch of riveted iron and flashlights.
>>96109069Meanwhile, in codex/army list fluff they replaced the Malcador as a better battle tank and forces loyal to Horus were given priority. Doesn't Warhawk also say the sponson gunner is stuffed into the sponson box? While schematics of the Russ show all crewmen inside the tank, operating the guns remotely.
>>9610911140k not 30k. Though I am looking forward to aux being less shit in 3.0. They've even given the Medusa Breaching 5+ now apparently, if its less than 200 points the fancy new plastic kit might actually see the tabletop.
>>96108826A full squad with legion-specific weapons is all a legion unit need
>>96109131Too many flashlights and tractors.
>>96109096It was a bit more biting than that
>>96109131>Doesn't Warhawk also say the sponson gunner is stuffed into the sponson box?Because russes aren't supposed to have sponsons at all.
>>96109131The Russ can be a coffin on treads and still be better than the Malcador.
I mean look at the fucking thing.
>>96109079>>96109110Fluff changes with the kits.
>>96109131Malcadors are even worse.
I'm not happy about how Cawl or primaris were handled at all, but at the very least the hover rhino/land raiders were a neat idea in the sense of "Oh, this is how they were supposed to be"
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>>96109160>Because russes aren't supposed to have sponsons at all.So why were sponsons mandatory when the kit was released? 2e Russ had no option to have them without sponsons. The author's need to write the Russ according to their armchair headcanon feels like when the militant atheists at BL use the Emperor as their vessel to own the Christcucks with facts and logic.
>>96109171>having positive feelings about anything primaris
>>96108848>Meanwhile regular shotguns couldn't even kill M3 Astronauts, as the suit is made of kevlar.A shotgun will blow off your hoses, visor, tank etc. A slug will go through that at close range. Actual rifles will turn a NASA suit to swiss cheese. Kevlar is not all the same.
>>96109088I 100% count Master Sergeant as a character locked upgrade, as it only affects a single model in a unit and it has to have a sergeant. Deathshroud are a unit of anonymous equals with no sergeant, and thus none of them can become a Master Sergeant
>>96109199Because it's the M41 russ, and that interior makes less and less sense the more you look at it.
The russ doesn't have an auto loader. The commander is also the gunner and loader, except he can't even move arms to get anything, let alone load the breach (which goes directly into his sternum)
It's not rule of cool, which I can give to things like the land raider. It's just stupid, and solely because it was designed by 20th century no-guns britbongs.
>The author's need to write the Russ according to their armchair headcanon feels like when the militant atheists at BL use the Emperor as their vessel to own the Christcucks with facts and logic.Because it's a shitty vehicle that makes no sense, and Chris Wraight is just about the only good author left at GW.
>>96109169Thats why the multilaser on the new kit is for the rear access hatch I guess. It literally only exists to let the section onboard try and suppress any nearby enemies while disembarking.
...multilasers might have suppression/pinning now.
>>96108247>master of descent with two bolters is now legal
>>96109211Hover rhinos and land raiders were a Visions of Heresy thing way before primaris ever saw a drawing board.
>>96109226>Chris Wraight is just about the only good author left at GW.Robert Rath is good too, he's just seemingly only interested in writing about Trayzn or Assassin's.
>>96109228They should. If I got shot at with a laser machine gun I'd hit the dirt.
>>96109231>no Firing Protocols
>>96109226>Because it's the M41 russSame Russ used in 30k right up until the new kit, which just has more rivets.
>that interior makes less and less sense the more you look at it.Do tell.
>The russ doesn't have an auto loader.But it do. Along with a lot of other things. People have just forgotten that all the way back in RT they said that Imperial tech is way beyond us and merely looks crude.
Why is does the legacy doc have jumppack variants of every applicable squad except rampagers?
The nails are biting, anons.
>>96108984Even after being hammered by their faster, WS5 thunder hammers? I'm outside so I don't have the points costs on me
>>96109232Don't remember grav Land Raiders in Visions. Rhinos for sure, though it's good to remember Cawl's hover crafts aren't flyers anymore, just brute forcing their way over terrain, while Visions grav Rhinos are shown soaring in the air.
>>96109259You have a thousand different ways to get multilasers on things in the SA, if they give them pinning it won't be hard to make every infantry unit in the enemy army make a test Every shooting phase. A single malcador can multilaser 4 different targets between the pintle mount, side mounts and front mount.
Tac squads will be failing a little under half the time assuming pinning (0). Sounds miserable to play against honestly.
>you get to move with half your infantry a turn, randomly selected by whoever can pass cool tests.>you can't focus down the multilasers either because you're fighting the SA, everything has a multilaser.
>>96109316Cawl raiders have never been described as flyers, the first time they ever appear in a novel they're described as essentially flattening the terrain underneath them as they move slowly towards their targets, WAACfags moving them onto the top of buildings was never intended.
>>96109359Nah. This was 16 unsold this weekend, still is 16 still unsold 3-4 days later. GW is flopping harder than in their life.
>>96109226There are zero good authors at GW. It's considered even worse artistic slop than making marvel movies.
So for one completely mid 5/10 book any BL author has released 9 trash tier entirely garbage books.
Each time I enjoy one GW book I get my hopes up then try to read a 2nd book from that same author and it's a massive disappointment. I don't know if they're all secretly hiring chinese/indian/russian minimum-wage ghost writers to pump so much complete shit writing out or if they just have no talent and lucked into a good plot/editor for one single book, but it's never two successes.
>>96109377Whatever will they do now the box they will be producing for the nest 3 years isn't sold out at a single literally who web store
Best units for killing terminators?
>>96109352>give them FLY keyword, same as jump packs, land speeders and flyers>if you use them like those units, you're a faggotBecause we can't blame James for making them FLYers.
>>96109017I would also like to see that quote. I know it's probably fake, but it's silly fluff I hope was true idk. A kind of misunderstanding as opposed to the continuous serious business it is now
>>96109407>Trying this hard to down play a major edition launch not selling out.>Fucking CATHAY, sold out in less then 5 min on its pre orderAnon...I....
>>96109415AoD didn't sell out
>>96109411Las destroyer rapiers same as last edition
>>96109407cancel work on horus heresy because it's selling 10x slower than warhammer fantasy. GW doesn't see "3 years of extremely bad sales" as a succecss. They made more profit off space wolves army box in 30 seconds than they have in saturnine's launch in 400,000 seconds and sales are dwindling more than ever. They're not going to waste their factories making any more models for you, dumb faggot. Those factories have now been switched to make WH40k.
>>96109065>Swords to PlowsharesPowered plowshares!
>>96109406>worse artistic slop than making marvel movies.Remember that Abnett has written for DC and Marvel. Personally, anything after 2001 is questionable. I dig some of the older novels because they feel like the writers were given their own little corner to work with, rather than every novel just being part of some grand epic at the center of everything and making the toy soldiers you buy look cool.
>>96109417Yeah and at the time the 2.0 community was leagues smaller then what it is now.
HH has only grown since AoD release, there are WAY more players now, so you have a sizable gain in community, but no sales to reflect that the new edition is even doing close to as good or better then AoD.
>>96109412Yeah, the rules writers are retarded, in other news the sky is (usually) blue.
>>96109407>thinks GW will be producing more copies of saturnineThe ones that are already in stores aren't selling. Wave 2 would knock the price to $200. Wave 3 would knock the price to $150-160 and leave GW with a mountain of unsellable solo rulebooks, mk2 tactical boxes, turrets, saturnine dreadnoughts, saturnine terminators, saturnine characters and mk2 characters because box splits would be 1/3rd the price.
GW is done printing saturnine. Their spreadsheet nerds have already decided HH is over.
>>96109443This level of cope isn't healthy
>>96109455Thinking that hh3.0 is totally doing fine, despite living in the age of the consoomer who will buy fucking everything that has a GW lable on it, is more of a cope.
>>96109164I wanted Malcadors to be brand-new tanks with experimental train drives (that become misunderstood relics 10000 years later). A sort of "tactical superheavy" not unlike how terminator armour's are tactical dreadnoughts, meant to alleviate the low numbers of superheavies and champion Russ armoured spearheads!
But it's just some silly headcanon u.u
>>96109277>>96109199>>96109164all of you are faggots and will be cucked by the eternal rhombus
if they all looked like modern MBT's they'd be gay as fuck and no fun, the awkward and chunky, primitive shapes are what define the whole aesthetic of the vehicles in-setting
>>96108528back when they used save mods it was -5 for the fist and -1 for the sword, then it went to -5 fpr the fist and -3 for the sword (and chainfists were -6), eat a dick
>>96109443true, and it's particularly worrying because they wasted 55 different Warcom news articles about look at HH3, look at HH3, look at HH3, look at HH3, and still weren't able to move even 1% of a 40k release.
The second GW stops releasing 50 news articles about Warhammer30k, it will immediately disappear except to the 1-in-100,000 GW players who already own it.
>>96109467Malcadors were fucking chadengines in 1e. Highspeed tonk, good fire power and more than tough enough.
Never forget what they took from us.
>>96109377At this point I'm starting to believe you own this shitty store and you're trying to manipulate people into buying you out of this shitty fucking box so you'll finally stop posting.
>>96109470You're not wrong, the tanks are actually designed quite well, they're just not designed to be good tanks they're designed to look cool.
Honestly I think I'm going to buy the mechanicum liber, the marines one is pretty disappointing and I'll just wait for a proper pdf but mechanicum looks fun. I'll pick up the saturnine termies and mk2 legionnaires on ebay separately, I don't have the room for the dread or the araknae in my carrying case
>>96109412The did finally lose fly at least
>>96109437I would never pay a penny for talentless Dan Abnett. It was painful reading his end and death trash novels. Particularly his habit of trying to end every single PoV chapter with a word then start an entirely unrelated PoV chapter with the same word.
"There is no Turning from it"
next unrelated character
""Loken tries to Turn, to reach for"
Fo "I am indeed a champion of the Emperor"
"Sigismund, that name is secondary now. The emperor has named him His Champion"
Thane's hammer comes up, but it's nothing like fast enough.
There's nothing, just another dark hallway.
Another set of doubles doors facecs him, three times t he height of a man. They are shut tight. He wonders what lies beyondthem. He doesn't want to open them and find out.
(separate) They finally reach the door. The oblong of light.
He's made this stupid fucking hack the backstone of his books. In the end trilogy he probably does it 100+ times. Everytime I see a word at the end that isn't characters talking, I know he's going to just repeat the same fucking thing. I'm glad I only pirate dan abnett novels, fucker doesnt deserve a job.
>>96109510I've never read Abnett before in my life, maybe thats a good thing.
>>96109510I just realized what Dan Abnett's writing technique is a direct copy of...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1JgMxRm--0
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>>96108737>Aurox banished to legacySo, no hope of ever getting a Solar Auxilia not-Land Raider then?
>>96109411Stationary Lascannons :^)
The leak links in the OP dead?
>>96109544...dont tell me that model is where we got the Dracosan from.
Soes GW have an old white dwarf conversion they HAVEN'T turned into a horus heresy model yet?
Working on 3.0 list would appreciate any feedback.
Primary Crusade Force
Crixus(Praetor) (120 base +5 babnestrikeboler +10 Power maul) 135
Calean(Legion Champion): Prime Trait Paragon of Battle* (105 base +5 melta bombs) 110
Rhexar(Optae): (100 base +5 Banestrike bolter +15 Carsoan Power Axe) 120
Tactical Squad Prime Logistic 100
Deredeo(Base 190 +15 )
Drop pod 50
Supremacy Command Cadre
20x Despoiler Squad Prime Logistic 200
20x Despoiler Squad Prime 200
10x Veteran Squad 205 (Combimelta and Chainswords)
Justraerin 275(base)
Reaver Attack Squad 135(base)
Armored fist
Sicaran 160(base)
Sicaran 160(base)
>>96109377lgs in a major area in los angeles still sitting on 24 after starting afaik with somewhere between 27-30
>>96108179 (OP)TQ: Still fucked, unless they unfuck deep strike.
Don't even get my whole army on, at 1 per turn.
>>96109523it's a sad truth that the GW novels are, by-and-large so badly done that you'll get more actual value from random youtubers lore channels explaining the plot than you would from reading the 70+ horrible zero quality control books.
The only thing reading the source material yourself does is add 500,000 pages of useless low quality filler, 50x worse than a dragonball z original television run.
There's little snatches that are good here and there, but it's 1% of the books. Reading the full HH novels made me dislike HH more than before I had read the first novel. All it did was taint the old cool lore from the codexes and white dwarf magazine articles (like index astartes) with 'your joke but worse' retcons.
What kind of transport can carry a dreadnought?
>>96109627none that are worth taking. Dreadnoughts die in 1 turn now and if you deepstrike them you gotta pay for the pod and it does a tiny bit of really mediocre shooting, isn't allowed to ever melee anything and then the enemy pops it instantly.
Exact same experience can be done with a true glass cannon exceept half the price or twice the lethality.
>>96109636>Dreadnoughts die in 1 turn now To what?
>>96109623This is cope. Or maybe youโre a slop tuber.
>>96109544>MkIV female tankI will shag that tank
>>96109544To be fair I think the aurox and carnodon will get an actual kit in plastic at some point and get dragged out of legacies (see: tarantula currently) because otherwise auxilla tanks wind up eating into guard sales which they hate (and vice versa: every 40k fag that doesn't recognize the difference between the mars alpha and the auxilla's standard mars pattern and complains about sponsons has an auxilla one instead of a FW or printed alpha)
>>96109645Gushing Grannies.
>>96109645it'd be faster to list the things that don't pick up a dreadnought in 1 turn now.
>>9610964510 Multi-melta HSS? I was told that was going to be the new boogeyman this edition
>>96109609was curious so I checked fbook store pagges for a dozen of the most popular game stores in the country, all but 1 didn't even make an announcement post for saturnine preorders. The one that did make a post had only 1 person Like the announcement (big engagement!)
And that store advertising the saturnine preorder was the one I posted the picture of where they'd had 5 preorders cancelled and it had jumped from 14 remaining to 19 remaining.
These FLGS gonna ditch the box at a discount in a month or two since it's not selling at all and go back to earning reliable money off pokemon, MTG and whatever the other popular tcgs are.
>>96109665Then do so, I want to know what cannot kill a dreadnought. They've always been a nightmare for me to fight.
>>96109689Don't listen to them. You can't just run a dread in the center and say "you're on a clock" anymore is all. If they have a melta squad in a rhino maybe don't run at it. Dreads are fine, not great, but fine.
>>96109689basic bolter infantry, basic bolter bikers and basic bolter characters. Basically everything else absolute murders dreadnoughts in HH3 - and while moving thanks to the heavy weapon change.
>>96109707and the change of dreadnoughts to WS4 so the enemy hits them on 3+ and the dread misses because 5+ to hit. There's literally zero viable melee dreadnoughts now.
>>96109688Yeah thats whats concerning is that even after all the hype they are trying, its still just not moving.
>>961097202e/3e WS chart sucks so much ass holy shit.
WS advantage is an absurdly huge advantage that overshadows basically every other factor.
>>96109377My store sold out 2 days after preorder, so with your example plus mine that evens 3.0 out as a smooth ok
>>96109753The biggest online store in my country sold out before the weekend was over. All the libers but the SA one are sold out as well now.
>>96109753we can tell you're lying rather easily. These stores are on websites that have FREE SHIPPING across the country. If a swarm of people were saying I NEED SATURNINE at your store and they ran out, these people could just go online 5 minutes and find one of 100+ unsold boxes at other stores (which would have decreasing quantities of boxes)
Instead, you're a lying faggot and nobody bought saturnine and there's zero demand for it - so the website numbers sit at the same thing hour after hour after hour, day after day after day.
>>96109765What's your blood pressure
>>96109774how many pills do you take each morning to try to make your adam's apple shrink?
>deep strike master of descent t1
>t2 on activate strato vox and you auto pass your reserve tests
Am I reading this wrong? Why were people concerned about failing their reserve rolls when him being around means you don't have to roll?
>>96109803Those auto-pass reserve tests is only for deep strike.
Anyone else here infantrymaxxx? I like 1-2 vehicles in my lists. Table size just feels awful when trying to play with superheavies or more than 2-3 "tank" vehicles
>>96109808Yes, though most the complaints I have seen online were for deep strike.
I cannot believe how quickly the pathetic PDF announcement flipped the consoomers. We were able to see people play games and witness the barely tested and broken rules. The game has been so raped that I wouldn't even worry about 40k players flooding in, they're not even going to be able to understand it.
>>96109812Great proportions lol
Brother Swoleus
>>96108300I have them, I was gonna post them all, but they're too big. So, grab the earliest versions at these links:
The Battle of Pluto: Hydraโs Devastation
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Xwccsydzg8YpDsho.pdf
The Battle of Sotha: Aegidaโs Lament
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/92OhQMoHC7I5tbLG.pdf
The Siege of Hydra Cordatus: The Sundering of the Cadmean Citadel
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/gy0GzMEa2p9IjWUS.pdf
The Defence of Sotha: Aegidaโs Lament (Updated)
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/9eA3ZYnzr5tXbxjX.pdf
The Siege of Hydra Cordatus: The Sundering of the Cadmean Citadel (Updated)
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/NUTJvW4qx8d08Fkr.pdf
The Battle of Armatura
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/QvQtJS3WeYW94eOv.pdf
The Battle of Armatura (Updated)
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/fcMVfgBlCyDHmejD.pdf
The Battle of Perditus: Umbral-51
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/mouvfePNquxVdprP.pdf
The Battle of Calth: Underworld War
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/iIVebnZrYRFbaDGH.pdf
The Battle for Kalium Gate
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/V7pz4FAPFUM2apkb.pdf
The Battle for Kalium Gate (Updated)
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/H6ygklXe9Fv2FwRe.pdf
The Breaking of the Perfect Fortress
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/AmPdr3yMZbvggCND.pdf
>>96109812I think I'm gonna just run very mechanized. A land raider with termies and praetor, a few rhinos with tacticals, and some drills with something or another.
>>96109587How about the prototype 3e land raider? Feels like it'd be much closer to a SA legally distinct land raider.
>>96109818I've seen 3 Battle reports and the only problems I've noticed were people being purposefully retarded and apply medium terrain rules to things shorter than a marine in height and then making disparaging comments all game when they go out of their way to exploit this poor terrain classification as if it's GW's fault you let a pile of debris get infinite height and block your vindicator that is taller than it that you chose to deploy behind said terrain. That said, I'm going to be having a go myself with a friend this weekend right before my business trip and I'll be able to evaluate it with non retarded people.
>>96109819They are mostly world eaters after all :^)
>>96109818tons of cock sucking from influencers today, but if you go into the comments its still a shit storm
Do you think we're likely to get plastic mk2 jump packs?
>>96109744It's basically the first change my group's making to our homebrewed 2.0
>>96109857They showed them off, so yes.
>>96109857No. Especially not with chainaxes for all legions.
Also i really like how everyone is ignoring this bit on their article
>This edition will continually expand the miniatures range in plastic โ including some units in this Legacy list, which will return with new designs and possibly new weapon options and wargear. When this happens, you can expect to see those unitsโ rules here phased out, with the updated unit covered in an appropriate new publication.
They are outright admiting that they are going to be selling you these same models rules again.
They are giving you it for free, then openly say to your face "Yeah we are going to charge you for these in the future."
I bet you fucking anything that when the "Totally not arcane journals" come out, if say a Reaver Aggressor Squad was in teh PDF, the PDF will have that entry removed and the only way to get the rules of it, is via the new journal they put out.
>>96109866I'm glad that ugly ass PoS is a "heavy chainaxe" and not just size creep on regular chainaxes. Though it doesn't explain why he's holding a pistol and a 2h weapon at the same time.
>>96109904>not just size creep on regular chainaxes.Anon, I...
>>96109900And this affects you how? Everything GW publish will be scanned and uploaded online the day it's released (probably earlier)
>>96109904Honestly even for a "Heavy chainaxe" its hilariously large.
>>96109912Ill just pirate my shit like any self respecting individual. But its funny that GW is just blatantly saying that they are going to charge you for DLC that was free 5 min ago. fuck if anything tahts them charging for update.
>>96109900Of course it will. They weren't originally olin the PDF until the backlash. They 100% were trying to get away with selling you missing units as DLC. Why do you think it got delayed? They folded and added them ahead of the journals.
>>96109925They announced the legacies PDF in may
>>96109925>Of course it will. They weren't originally olin the PDF until the backlash.Oh i belive this, i 100% think that most of the units were going to be sold back to us via journals and this is them panicing, adding them, in an online version which is probably gonna be shit balance wise, then you can buy the new improved version.
>>96109934Anon, you are basically being led to water, and proving that you cant force a horse to drink, because the say right there.
>When this happens, you can expect to see those unitsโ rules here phased out, with the updated unit covered in an appropriate new publication.It does not matter if they announced the PDF in may, they are telling you they are going to charge you for updates to these units, publications means new books.
>>96109925You see this is a conspiracy theory I can get behind, much more likely than they "yeah actually the legacies document didn't include anything until after internet backlash then they did all the rules at once"
>>96109818for a normal GW product like WH40k / AOS, 70-80% of GW customers bought models and never played the tabletop game.
These are the majority of people that post on reddit.
And the number of people posting on those shill paid influencer youtube videos who have actually played a game of HorusHeresy is probably closer to 1% (anyone with self-respect has already blocked those channels)
So that carebear group is just going to just assume the PDF is "big nice company saving my feefees, case closed, time to fingerpaint with my friends on tiktok" and just overlooking that the game it self is ruined with garbage rules for models and terain and a horrible 3 year DLC spurt cycle that would be a huge problem if they actually wanted to escape from the same bad cycle in 40k.
>>96109803>deepstrike master of memes t1>your opponent does everything in their power to kill it immediately>half your reserves fail and dont even get to fight the entire gameIt works, but its HIGHLY risky, unless you hide him somewhere in a corner.
>>96109912bc you'll get your DLC unlock 6 months before 4th edition hope this helps
>>96109670Since we found out what Melta (x) actually does (Hint: It doesn't replace the damage value with x), they seem much more reasonable
>>96109941>yeah actually the legacies document didn't include anything until after internet backlash then they did all the rules at onceI dont think anyone is saying this outside of the tartaros armor at least IMO, but i think they announced whats in it because of how bad it was looking for them.
>>96109934They didn't announce what would be in it, or whether the things in it would be removed and re-sold later.
>>96109818you lost doomer
>>96109832They turned that into the mk2b from FW
>>96109969NTA but i dont think this is the victory you think it is anon.
>>96109951So you get to play with your models for 2.5 years then the rules might be slightly changed and you'll need to pirate a rules booklet?
>>96109951This. Anyone who's okay with this clearly doesn't remember 9th ed WE or Guard
>>96109946At least for me I'm probably just going to bring 1 termite and maybe some allies if Custodes or aux get something good to deepstrike. So hopefully won't get fucked either way.
>>96109833anon, the terrain rules are objectively just fucking cursed.
Cover is ONLY provided if you are in area terrain. Being behind some barricades or whatever never gives you cover.
And for area cover you only get 3 classes.
Heavy cover is legitimately broken since it prevents all shooting and charging other than barrage weapons.
Light cover is 6+ so might as well be nothing.
So that only leaves medium cover, but the 3 inch LOS rule means any kind of reasonably sized piece of terrain are just magic LOS blockers now.
>>96109981Hey look, a lost 40k tourist
Did you know that we don't have codexes? Journals are more of a replacement for Exemplary Battles.
>>96109833New scoring rules are god-awful too.
>>96109904Have you seen 2e melee weapons? One handed weapons are fucking giant. Power axe and power maul in particular are easily bigger than that axe. I wouldn't be surprised if thats just a 'normal' chainaxe now.
>>96109956new melta is truly pathetic only affecting vehicles.
Imagine only being able to deal 1 single wound when pressed 1" from a primarch's helmetless forehead with a gun that one-shots a predator tank.
This edition is so completely ass.
>>96109989I like how you just refused to accept that heavy terrain is meant for actual modeled structures even though every battle report and mission plan uses them for that exact purpose. It's one step down from impassable terrain.
>>96109992>Journals are more of a replacement for Exemplary Battles.They litearlly are not lol, they are like arcane journals in TOW which are basically like a codex lite.
>40k touristJfc have reached the point where people saying "Hey man its really scummy that GW is trying to sell us shit we had for free 5 min ago," are the tourists lol.
>>96109992Hey, a retard.
Did you know you can take an example of why something is bad, extrapolate out to the abstract, and apply it to other situations?
>Journals are more of a replacement for Exemplary Battles.So, like the last Exemplary Battle? Sanguinary Guard? Which you got 1 year tops out of and now they're gone, not even in Legacies?
>>96109999>Imagine only being able to deal 1 single wound when pressed 1" from a primarch's helmetless forehead with a gun that one-shots a predator tank.>This edition is so completely ass.My brother in Christ, that is LITERALLY how melta guns and primarchs have worked together for over a decade in both 1.0 and 2.0.
>>96109978This nigger is cheering for a product GW knew was broken junk and was hoping to pass off and then shit out an article about a PDF that totally existed before two days ago, and now he's happy. Raped cattle.
>>96109974Let me introduce you to the second Epic Land Raider.
Where can I find the datasheets for Chaplains and other Centurion jobs? Not seeing them in the leaks.
Unrelated picture for attention.
>>96110012Reply to me yourself you pussy
>>96110002>>96110005Because you're complaining about getting 3-4 mostly universal units in a booklet every few months that work for every legion and comparing it to legions not getting any rules whatsoever for 2 years
You're doing this because you have not played a single game of HH and only have 40k for reference, which is really obvious when every single example isn't just 40k but 40k from the past 2-3 years.
>>96109958those fucking assholes brought back jump versions of every unit except for rampagers. Why god?
>>96110000>modeled structure>2 units are inside a building, giving them a 4+ cover save>can't shoot out of the building at other guys>can't shoot at the other unit INSIDE the building 1 inch away from them>can't charge them because no LOS>can literally not interact with anything at all, other than dropping barrages on their headsAnon, how is this meant to work at all? I am honestly asking, I can't envision what kind of actual terrain this is meant to represent.
>>96110025The Sanguinary Guard Exemplary Battle for Horus Heresy: The Age of Darkness 2nd Edition is for 40k? How do you figure that, retard?
>>96110025YOU STUPID FUCKING NIGGER
im complaining that im getting 3-4 universal units that I had rules for FOR FUCKING FREE, 5 min ago, and retards like you are out here cheering that GW is going to let you give them money for that. Holy fuck.
>>96110030>Anon, how is this meant to work at all?Because it's meant for true LoS, not using it as area terrain like medium terrain
>>96110037>bloo hoo hoo my glorified command squad didn't show up, that means Blood Angels are squatted until 4.0You're a histrionic nigger and I hope you quit
>>96110030>those fucking assholes brought back jump versions of every unit except for rampagers. Why god?so you can buy the arcane journal which will have the Rampagers with jump packs lol.
>>96110041You don't even pay for this shit so it literally does not affect your life
>>96110041None of the units in the Dropsite Massacre book are reprints, you're working yourself into a tearful cuck rage over your own imagination
>>96110050So you lied, got called out, and immediately resort to strawmaning. Top tier. You deserve GW.
>>96110050>Trying to say historical nigger like tahts a rip >HHWow, so you really did just show how stupid you are lol.
Fucking panoMod in this thread now it seems.
>>96110060Master of Descent is basically a reprint for Raven Guard, who had a very similar named character that's confirmed not to be in the legacies.
>>96110060Also, with the legion whirlwind removed, the new Hyperios Whirlwind is sort of a paid reprint too.
>>96110041These people aren't even human. 4th edition of HH literally just be a port of 11th edition 40k. They'll be forced to buy separate ARKENCODICES for different units and they'll clap and cheer.
>>96110041Just download a pdf
>>96110081Its worse then a paid reprint because they straight up tell you "Buy these 2 kits to make this."
>>96110084post receipt of books you're bought
>>96110090>Post recipts>Not Post books.I smell a jew.
>>96110088Does that not sound like a suggestion for conversion for people who are new at the game. Do you think you have to buy those 2 specific kits or your tank isn't viable?
>>96110042But it is area terrain. Heavy area terrain, that is literally what the rules are for anon.
TLOS doesn't come into this, it very explicitly says nothing can draw LOS to a model in heavy area terrain AND models in heavy area terrain cannot draw LOS to ANY models (not jsut ones outside).
So again, what is this meant to represent? I really want to know, because I genuinely don't know what GW were envisioning with this.
>>96110103Its a conversion in the same way buying a pack of nuMk3 and the GW upgrade heavy weapons box, is a conversion.
Which is not.
>>96110112Yes and I'm saying that it's a suggestion for people who aren't used to doing conversions, a starting point
>>96110123And im saying its not a conversion.
>>96110103NTA, but the 40k whirlwind (which the old rules supported) is still available. It's $70 off GW right now.
The Scorpius is $68.50 (and out of stock, surprise surprise) a pair of tarantula missile turrets are $60.
Sure, it's decent kitbashing advice, but a few months ago you could get a $70 kit and make a legal, playable unit. Today, you need $128.50 worth of kits and a $28 book to get a very similar experience. I think it's fair to say they're nickle and diming us all.
Someone want leaks for auxilia? Auxilia does not leak! But I have information from others, without photo proofs.
Man with lasrifle 5pts: 30" FP1 S3 ap6 1D, Heavy (FP)
+1pts for blast chargers 18" FP1 S4 ap4 1D, Rendinng 6+ Shred 6+
Arvus 60 pts
Leman Russ Strike and Assault 140 pts, someone tells it stable, someone tells not
Dracosan 145pts with gravis lascannon, 175 with demolisher, it has flare shield (full ignor armourbane) and may somehow overwatch with demolisher (im not sure)
Basilisk 120"+ FS1 S5 AP4 D2 Ordnance D. Rending 6+. Pinning 1 Barrage 2 Blast 5"
Medusa 36" FS1 S5 AP4 D2 Ordnance D. Rending 5+. Pinning 2 Barrage 2 Blast 5"
Also a lot of information in spruesandbrews article.
>>96110143Both artillery Ordnance S, sorry
>>96110143>Medusa and Basilisk S5LOL, LMAO EVEN.
>>96110150Ok i take back what i said here then.
>>96110152
>>96110112According to GW, the main liber rule book should only contain basic units as equipped in a single box... but just ignore all the upgrade kits.
>>96110157Watch as we get through all of 3.0 without a recon kit.
>>96110143Velitarii 10 pts with volkite charger
15 pts with storm axe
>>96110157Yeah thats the hilariously big elephant in teh room
>Tacticals + Support weaponsTotally fine
>Tacticals + Melee waponsYep works here
>Tacticals + Heavy weaponsHell yeah!
>Sky hunter jet bikes + melee weapons, which i have a unit ofWOAH WOAH WOAH Sorry command squad on jet bikes is legacy.
>>96110167I was going to suggest command squads got a pass since they do sell boxes with the 5 dudes and the upgrade sprue, but the TSS, HSS, Despoilers, Veterans, Terminator Command Squads all kinda fuck that over.
Hell, RAW Tartaros units fuck that over.
>>96110185the changes to tarty and cata units heavily imply they are getting a new release, which from GW is kinda overdue. The leaks just tipped their hand early in terms of what the new kits are gonna come with.
>>96109552litterbox should be dead but pfs are in gofile
>>96110192I agree, but GW didn't say they reflect the kits they will have, they said it will reflect the kits that are available. And right now, that's the ones we have.
>>96110143>Lasrifle FP1Ouch. I see 24" Rapid Fire bolters and plasma guns became FP2, but 30" lasrifles have remained single shot
>>96110192They might announce it tomorrow but that would still leave ~1 week between the influencers shilling and the announcement where everyone is going to be wondering wtf they are doing
What would be a better transfer for my Tartaros' right shoulders? An Achaean Scarab to represent Veteran status or something more generic like a Legion number?
>>96110207I'm telling you - tomorrow is Skittles.
>>96110214I need to get me some of those arms printed.
>>96110224For what it's worth, all of them are recasts aside from the hammers, which are 3D printed.
>>96110239Nah, those left arms aren't, are they? I recognise the STL, and I'm pretty sure the official GW ones have slightly different elbow joints.
>>96109866I think marine melee weapons should look disproportionately large because they are disproportionately strong. Full size rifles are like machine pistols in their hards, and they can carry guns that would normally be emplaced.
Thus it makes sense they can wield in one hand weapons that would take a normal man both arms to lift, let alone swing.
>>96110240Oh, those arms may be 3D printed as well. I don't remember exactly, since it's been about a year or so. Most of them are definitely recast, though.
>>96110202Well I don't think they planned on all the libers leaking and having to panic release a list of whats in the legacy pdf, anon.
>>96110244Being disprportionally strong compared to a normal human doesn't mean its effective to swing a giant axe thats over 2 meters tall around with one hand, just because they physically can.
Simple physics makes this highly inefficient.
>>96110244>disproportionately strongYet marine weapons have no inherent bonus above non-marine weapons.
>Full size rifles are like machine pistols in their handsOnly when using one Oath in 2.0. Any other time autogun in marine hands was the same as in human hands.
>>96110268You just said they physically can. If they can do it, then they do it.
>>96110268>I don't think they planned on all the libers leakingNo, but they made that statement before the leaks (in that roundtable), and there's no way they drop two new terminator kits alongside the Saturnine box, that'd cannibalise sales way too much. So they always planned to have the current Tartaros kit on sale while describing it inaccurately.
>>96110274>Any other time autogun in marine hands was the same as in human hands.In 2.0? When else did they wield autoguns? Besides autocannons, I mean. You know, those things it takes two people to move around
>>96110268The influencer reviews were still going to be out 2 weeks before the legacies pdf is going to be released
>>96108300Based anon, I have also put together a repository on my drive for the entirety of 1.0
If any anons are interested and want the link, drop me a ping on discord
theitalianstallion2049
And pm me you're from /tg/
>>96110290>When else did they wield autoguns?1.0, 2e, RT, various games like Inquisition.
>You know, those things it takes two people to move aroundThe ones Necromunda gangers carry and fire from the hip and even Munitorum Manual tells of a case where a Cadian picked up an autocannon with its tripod and fired it at the enemy as he advanced?
>>96110319Use your words, my man, I'm not a mind reader.
>>96110278I can physically lift a heavy weight anon, doesn't make it a good weapon.
A giant weapon is bad for anything other than smashing things like a cave troll - the mass is very far away from your hand, and it will generally be cumbersome to fight with.
Real swords are not that heavy, you can swing a 2 handed sword around with one hand but its not practical at all. More strength doesn't change that its not a good weapon, and from a game point of view it just looks comically oversized, its like a cartoon barbarian weapon.
>>96110328NTA, but he literally started
>>96110290 with "In 2.0?"
He used his words. You use your eyes.
>>96110351Ok, so the conversation up until then was:
>Full size rifles are like machine pistols in their hands>Only when using one Oath in 2.0. Any other time autogun in marine hands was the same as in human hands.>In 2.0?And everything after that is apparently ignored, so how am I suppose to interpret this question?
>>96110363I'd interpet "In 2.0? When else did they wield autoguns" as "When else did they wield autoguns in 2.0?"
Doubly so since you gave several examples not from 2.0, and got a very forceful "IN 2.0" in response. Seems pretty clear to me.
>>96110334That would be the case for swords, which are balanced near the crossguard
Axes and mauls aren't balanced. Their whole thing is to be the opposite of balanced. They put as much metal on a shaft as long as it is comfortable to wield
It is ridiculous strength swinging nonsensical weapons
>>96110351>>96110363>>96110372I guess I closed the first sentence with an interrogation mark without explicitly stating the next one was like, a continuation of the first. I suppose I could've worded it better idk
The way anon said it, I wanted to know more about those "other times" marines have wielded autoguns. Guess those times were early editions
There's no consistence at times - unless you subscribe to the theory that Catachan have a bit of abhuman in them, allowing them to move with heavy bolters and the like. The smartest, shortest Ogryn. Equally as smelly, too :^)
>>96110109Kek no answer to this. They wanted to ditch tlos for some reason and came up with this.
One type of terrain is evidently a black void you can stand in.
Another is comically useless and creates planet bowling ball the TLOS haters complain about.
The last is what you would think is decent until you see 2 units standing in a building 3.1" from each other unable to interact.
The terrain rules are so fucked. Is this how 10th Ed terrain works? All I know is they use some L shaped ruins that I guess block LoS?
How does a space marine aim two autoguns if they don't have the same camera setup as bolters?
>>96110006Dude how would they know. Theyโre nogames, no modelers
How likely is it they kept the old pods for HH either because it's the only kit the Dreadclaw conversion works on or they're planning on adding a plastic Dreadclaw sprue to the box, rather than design a whole new kit?
>>96110445Does the new Liber have the twin linked bolter?
>>96110452Leaks I've seen do.
>>96110452the liber drop pod always has combibolter, so they intentionally left it out of the new 40k pack.
>>96110458Then I assume it'd still have to be the old pod
>>96110464The new 40k pod doesn't have a storm bolter. I assume that's where they put the 11th and 12th seat
>>96110468the last two marines just hang from nooses in the middle of the pod.
I'm in a dark spiral anons.
I use fw resin dudes because thats what I started in and I like the scale, but I just noticed the leg economy is in shambles.
mk.4 marines share almost all the same legs.
Assault and standard tac marines have the exact same set of legs, and the despoilers and hss kits have 1 different set of legs each.
Mk.5 assault marines only have 2 different sets of legs, while the tactical bodies have 5 unique ones (only one of which is shared by the assault kit).
Also interestingly, the assault and tac bodies are actually different. I have heard people say (and assumed so myself) that they were identical. The tac body has cables that feed into the armour half way around to the back, where as the assault body's cables go all the way to the back. The assault torso's front cable parts are also much more pronounced, but some of the tac bodies have a few little greebles that are missing from the assault bodies.
Similar shit for mk.2 and 3, but I haven't autismo'd them all yet.
mk.6 tacs have only 3 poses, but they have no other kits so they're all good.
tl;dr, do I start buying whole kits just for the one slightly different set of legs and shit?
>>96110520Pic for the 1 other armour autist in the thread
>>96110143two editions of shitty medusas i love 3.0
>>96110527Damn bro, hit leg day.Tf are these spaghetti legs.
>>96110542I love my noodle men anon.
Also they look much better next to tanks and dreads (which haven't changed in size ever) compared to modern marines (which keep getting bigger every god damn time).
Even compared to the mk5/6 though, the mk.4 is noticably thinner
>>96110520>>96110527>leg autismjust get a 3d printer already
>>96110520>>96110527Buy plastic mk3/4/6 legs
>>96110539>Rending, not BreachingOof. Good AP D1 > AP Shit Damage 34
>>96110559the older mk.3 plastic is ok, but mk.4 in particular is very ugly in plastic, the knees are all jank because steel molds.
>>96110577I prefer my MkIV knees more flush with the greaves.
>>96110594Its not even that they're flush - they follow the same posing as fw mk.4 but the limitations of the tech means they can't have a gap behind the knees, so its just a huge solid piece of plastic. Literally no one else would care though, but I do.
yeah
md5: f9226c0299a7129fd8fd1d6a332961bc
๐
>>96110520>tl;dr, do I start buying whole kits just for the one slightly different set of legs and shit?yes, such is the burden for armour autists
this was a lot easier before 2.0 or the covid boom when parts were plenty
otherwise start armour mixing or chopping legs if you want pose variety. I've given up on armour autism personally
posting leg pile in solidarity. it's uhh mk6 :^)
>>96110574Help me see something. Going by that metric, AP3 D1 = AP4 D3 breaching none, as both do 3 damage on space marines after three successful wounds: the AP3 skips saves three times while the D3 goes once after being saved two other times.
>>96110622I don't think you're saving each point of damage OP, but I could be wrong. Its not like brutal from last edition
While we're on armour autism, mars pattern predator executioner anyone? with reinforced armour, even
>>96110611I am an intense armour mixer, so all good there.
I've chopped and reposed legs before, but frankly its too much effort, at least for basic dudes.
>>96110735Neat. Mars pattern is totally fine, and the reinforced armour kit helps make it stand out even more.
>>96110574Oh shit, it doesnt look like there are special rules for rending blasts, so you roll a single hit for the blast marker, and if its rending everyone under the template is auto wounded? I wonder if them being rending is a copy paste error, or if rending is suppose to work differently with blasts. Either way just seems wrong.
>>96110143>>96110804if it is about medusa and basilisk
Again, my bad memory, dounle check that, medusa breaching 5+, basilisk breaching 6+
>>96110594That's how the new kit will be based on the new characters.
>>96110711True there's no 3+ save W3 target
Also,
Storm Axe IM-1, AM - (2attacks on Velitarii) SM+2 (or +3, don't remember), AP3, D1, breaching 5+, Shred 5+
>>96110877Custodes bikes were w3 3+, odds are venetari will be this edition.
Stormseer or telekinesis librarian?
I have a sneaking suspision I will paint my saturnine termies and dreads and never play them because they seem like abysmal dogshit.
>>96110937stormcalling seems more interesting since it lets heavy units like cataphractii command squads or boarding squads go +4" or even +3-4" more for heavy dreadnoughts since they're not vehicles.
And it lets units go hyperspeed and still Shoot and still Charge something, which is even more broken now that you can shoot squadA and charge squadB in the same turn.
telekinesis seems a tad underwhelming since it only works on shooting and even saves don't stop the unit getting pinned/panicked (since the attacker only needs to hit/wound test, whether you shroud or not)
>>96110997units being given an indirect fire statline is often a curse. If it's shit, it's just a dumb take that wastes time and does nothing much, if it's overpowered, it's not fun abusing indirect cheese there's no skill involved, particularly with 3rd's broken terrain visibility system.
And the only alternative for the terms is a shitty Overload system, so there's no interesting choice.
I'm glad I didn't buy the terrible box set while it's still overpriced - I can tolerate them when they're <180 instead of 268, then I wont regret it even if they stay on the shelf and I mostly use the mk2 troopers.
>>96110884Ooh. Attacks at i2, and whenever it breaches it will also shred, so it hits i2 hammers at the same time with AP2 2D.
Seems okay. The days of Veletarii having regular axes are in the past, I assume.
>>96111037>which is even more broken now that you can shoot squadA and charge squadB in the same turnWhere does it say this?
Wondering because the firestorm rule specifically says you can shoot and not charge a unit, I didn't think that was universal.
>>96111073the rulebook would need to say you are not allowed to do it. It doesn't say it.
>>96111075Have you read the entire rulebook anon?
>>96111078NTA but I read the book and it didn't make a mention of having to charge at what you shot
nor did it ever mention multicharging
>>96111073what Firestorm rule says is you can charge and then willingly choose not to skip the Charge Roll (Setup Rolls are already optional) So you can be 9" away, declare a Charge, skip Setup, VolleyFire, then use Firestorm to skip Charging.
A normal model can skip the SetUp (you MAY make a setup move) but you MUST make a charge move.
>>96111094Oh right!
Completely forgot volley fire was a thing.
LeakCHADS, does the Journal have an "official" Master of Descent conversion? I've got something in mind but wanted to see GW's take.
So Master of Descent can join a unit of 9 Thallax with multi meltas and bring them in turn 1โฆ.
Thatโs a thing.
>legion known for being fast and preferring mobile combat
>get a sniper consul mini, because someone has to do it when the other guys are just driving the bikes around
What would be some other unorthodox legion/consul combinations? Word Eaters Armistos? Salamanders Moritat? Word Bearers Decurion?
>>96111065>>96110884>>96110165I think what will make or break that unit is their Weapon Skill
>>96111148Thousand sons legion champion, Death Guard Librarian.
>>96111129This isn't 40k, anon. Gotchas always existed in Heresy but we just chose not to do it.
>>96111148Is a sniper consul really that out there for the White Scars? I'd imagine a Siege Breaker would be more out of character.
>>96111154A lot of people choose to take them.
Am I blind or is there no ally chart this edition?
>>96111148I don't think it's hard to justify.
>mobility based force will need scouting forces in advance of them to help pick their target>sniper units or characters are well suited to the role thanks to their focus on stealth and infiltrationDreads are the most famous unorthodox thing for white scars to field.
Is there a collection of points accumulated somewhere? I've seen people pricing things up, want to have a go at mine.
>>96111129Iโm guessing a decent intercept would solve this. Get them pinned or something? But the Thallax have a decent Cool stat donโt they?
>>96111184No your imperial fists can ally with iron warriors now no worries!
>>96111150I heard that the auxilia now even has unit with WS5, so I believe in WS4 velitarii
Post models or get the Dreadhammer
>>96111196actually the exact combo I was just talking to a friend about.
>>96111184You are correct. There is an inherent debuff of -1 to cool and leadership to units with a character leading a faction other than their own, and you have to be all one allegiance (duh), but that seems to be about the only restriction. From the reviews of liber questoris I've seen, you need to take a specific prime advantage to take aux or mech, and seemingly you can't ally in marines if you're primary knights, which is kinda a headscratcher.
>>96111176Then I will chose not to play with them
>>96111191>>96111171It's not a contest, just an example. You don't have to overthink it.
>>96111195They will get the -1 cool and leadership penalty and if the mech are the allies I don't think they have a way to gain prime advantage for combat vets.
>>96111243I understand, it's just that I don't find a sniper consul not in the MO of hit and run tactics for White Scars. Also Salamanders don't use Moritats (their Pyroclasts are the replacement.)
>>96111261Nobody said they don't do it. All Legions use almost all consuls. It's just that it's funny that the fast guy is going slow.
>>96111195reactions never cause tactical statuses
>>96111261>Also Salamanders don't use Moritats (their Pyroclasts are the replacement.)Traitor ones do, which makes the combination unorthodox.
>>96111127No. It's a jump pack consul with a special vox. I believe in you.
Am I overstepping when saying I don't think any character will use a power fist? Seeing strength above S8 isn't as necessary as it was when fighting SM infantry (vehicles aside), Hammers give up an unnecessary point of Str to gain a very useful point of Init.
So it will be Hammers vs...some niche Legion Specific weapon? If they have the option to, ofc.
Maybe artificial scarcity on options isn't that bad lol
I'm somewhat aware that Mk4 is meant to be more 'advanced' relative to earlier power armor fluff-wise, but is it better or on par with Mk6-7?
>>96111204still need to prime this fucker
>>96110064histrionic is a word. He's saying you're melodramatic you fucking retard
>>96109822Even if I already received them, thank you.
>>96111329PF's will make units notably better at tank punching if you care to do so, but in general yeah thunder hammers seem the way to go. Strangely, Salamanders have more of a case for running a power fist character over a thunder hammer since they can forge craft it to get 3 damage.
>>96111065Aren't Veletarii I4 currently? They'd hit at the same time as axes and mauls while being far better.
Why does imperial fists have so few unique units?
>>96111208Fr what would IW gain from Fists?... The Fists do have nice characters and the IW's trait doesn't need every model to have the trait - a majority is sufficient.
But, if you bring any IF High Command (of which they have 3), then you cannot use the IW's 2 special detachments. You can still use their Warsmith (Prime: Special Assignment) or Iron Circle Retinue (Prime: Logistical Benefit). Seems it's one or the other.
Better make Fists be the allied ones; they don't have any Retinue unit yet
Despite the legacy pdf containing most the things people wanted, I'm still a little saddened that there won't likely be the old flexibility going forwards. New consuls aren't likely to be get the same flexibility in their wargear, mount or armour. I am almost entirely certain they won't give bike options to MoD, or any sort of Saturnine character save the praetor and any specific models they make going forwards.
>>96111384Boring legion. See salamanders.
>>96111384They have like half a dozen characters, how many units do you want them to have? I think they'll get Huscarls on the PDF. Plus GW said they were going to shill Saturnine termies by giving some legions a 4th special unit.
100% not the Word Bearers - no Annointed ever! xDD
>>96111393>there won't likely be the old flexibility going forwardsOf course not, they said so themselves:
>They are written to reflect the contents of boxed units, so new players can build armies without feeling the need to buy multiple kits just to make one unit. The boxes themselves are designed to represent the most typical wargear loadouts those units would have. It also means that these rulebooks can still be compact enough to transport to your games.
>>96111389he wants to make a siege based IF lists with an allied detachment of buttmad perty hater IW with a squad of dominators
Have we had rules for normal drop pods yet?
Thinking of putting a unit of Dreadwing Interemptors in one.
>>96111389>if you bring any IF High Command (of which they have 3), then you cannot use the IW's 2 special detachments.Just use your Amazon Prime to bring the IF HC?
>>96111400>They are written to reflect the contents of boxed units, so new players can build armies without feeling the need to buy multiple kits just to make one unit. The boxes themselves are designed to represent the most typical wargear loadouts those units would have. It also means that these rulebooks can still be compact enough to transport to your gamesIt seems one of GW's goals it to seem more in touch with the community and address it directly, but I wish they just wouldn't. Whenever they do it's it's always obnoxious corpo speak that's insulting to people's intellegence.
>>96108528That's it. I'm sick of all this "6+ rend" bullshit that's going on in the 30k right now. Power Swords deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine power sword sprue from GW for ยฃ18,000 (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my sword.
GW spends years working on a single power sword and fold the HIP up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.
Power swords are thrice as sharp as power fists and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a fist can pierce, a power sword can pierce better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a kataphractii terminator with a simple vertical slash.
Ever wonder why Horus never bothered conquering Terra? That's right, he was too scared to fight the disciplined veterans and their power swords of destruction. Even on Calth, Word Bearers targeted the marines with power swords first because their killing power was feared and respected.
So what am I saying? Power swords are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the horus heresy. Here is the stat block I propose for katanas:
IM: +6
AM: A
SM: +2
AP: 1
D: 3
Special:
Automatically kill opponent on a 6+ to hit, and cannot fail an attack roll.
Trait: power
Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of power swords in real life, don't you think?
tl;dr = Power swords need to do more damage in 30K, see my new stat block.
>>96108696GW already has a tiddy custodes remake 2.0 in the pipeline. It will be revealed either on the show in two days or with the pdf rules drop planned for the 30th of July.
>source?My uncle works for Nintendo
>>96111486Is this the doomer cope now you got assraped by a single warcom article?
>>96111472Finally someone who is actually committed to the hobby, not just a nogame doomposter. Respect.
>>96111472I've missed this pasta like you couldn't believe.
>>96111472>Here is the stat block I propose for katanas7/10 it's okay
Can Cataphractii Termies still take Autocannons? Found some old recasts for a squad I'm stripping.
Mordian glory with a grim review of 3.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBi3U26S8H4&list
I think we can safely say it's over.
>>96111449Yes. They don't have deep strike but they have orbital assault vehicle. I cannot find orbital assault vehicle in the core rules or liber pdf's I have. Last edition orbital assault vehicle just said they have to deep strike, so I'm guessing they'll be in the first faq. But as for chucking Interemptors in them, they are only really useful for close quarters shooting now so seems like a good use for it.
>>96111506Yes normal cataphractii, no on command squads.
>>96111345Looking great so far!
It may be an algorithm thing but I am seeing a fuck ton of entire 30k armies for sale.
>>96111510Bit late on the draw
>>96111550I think they took too long with the warcom article.
Too little too late and all that
>>96108725Nawh
It will be the master of descent,next journal, cataphractii and breachers
>>96111555Didn't Mordian literally only start playing heresy about a month ago?
file
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>>96111489I mean, tiddy custodes exist. I wouldn't be surprised if they showed up tomorrow, especially since we've already been teased with a fancy guardian spear.
I'd be very surprised but also fairly happy if we got a SoS range instead tho. They've been stuck with a single plastic infantry box. And the abductor for a while.
>>96111611Neat, thanks anon
Buy the fucking saturnine box you lazy chuds
>>96109417Aod sold out in the UK within an hour lol
I remember being able to find one copy left in stock on UK retailers two days after preorder
For reference
Dark sphere in the picture above usually have starter sets ordered in the thousands for new edition launches
>>96111550Believe it or not, I also consider to sell my 30k stuff. I think I can get out without a major loss, so it's really tempting. It's a shame, because the 30k plastic sets are the best on the market right now and I even like the reworked armor marks. It's just unreasonable amounts of money for a game I won't play anymore.
>>96111611It's the Contemptor who get's the Gravis Chainfist right? Weirdly I kind of don't remember at all what that looks like.
I know I put one on my CastaFerrum, but I'm pretty sure the only unique weapon that had old edition was the Missile Pod.
>>96111393>New consuls aren't likely to be get the same flexibility in their wargear>The new consul is the only one with free access to the officers wargeal list
>>96111738Still can only be jump pack and not any other flavor of deep striker.
>>96111550They may have fixed (or atleast remedied) the unit options and wargear situation.
But the fact remains that the rulebook is still a barely comphrensible mess.
>>96111727Itโs like the regular fist but his middle finger is replaced with a chainsword.
>>96111345What's her name?
>>96111344Overly simplified by mk4 is better but more complex, mk6 takes some of things from mk4 and tries to simplifies things.
Mk4 is like the prototype with all the fancy features the engineers wanted to make while mk6 onwards is the final production models that's streamlined and forgo a lot of the fun stuff to be economically viable.
It's in the name: Maximus, the peak
>>96111517Oh yeah it's grind time.
>>96111767NTA but I'd go with Lucrezzia
>>96111784That's a cool name but I meant like what rhino chassis variant?
Deimos Pattern repressor? Razorback?
what are people thoughts on true believers ?
>>96111774I see, thanks.
>>96111596A few months ago, but yeah it's close enough. Interesting to see people get into 30k without intending to play marines.
>>96111819I think I'd rather take my chances with the status effect desu
WEwip
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tested a scheme out, how's the readability of the highlights on the white? First time doing white PA and it seems very ambient light dependent whether the matt white highlights on the off white show up or not. Was considering doing an extremely high contrast method instead but most people seem to stick to an off white with highlights. Sorry about the marine he's had more resprays than a AL vet.
>>96111738That's because he's not getting a model and will be shuffled off to Legends once 4.0 hits (in 3yrs)
>>96111344>>96111774MkIV was rolled out right at the Imperium's peak, with all the latest features and technologies. Because of that it relies on fairly complex supply chains and logistical support, so once the Heresy begins and all that goes to shit the MkIV suits quickly start to become unusable because they can't get the parts to maintain them. MkV is hastily invented as a stop-gap which bodges together older technologies and widely available components to produce something more reliable. MkVI is designed in an attempt to create something which combines the benefits of MkIV with the lessons of MkV, like having easily replacable parts and backup cabling. MkVII is really just a refinement of those principles.
Ignore the nu-lore which says that MkVI was being tested pre-heresy, that's a lazy insertion to push sales of FW's resin Badab War MkVI kits which messes up not just the chronology, but also the design language of power armour marks as first established in the early armour through the ages articles and models.
>>96109411Thunder hammer raptors are pretty decent for it. Kill near enough a terminator each into regular cata or tartaros terminators. Also Tsons autocannon squads.
Stationary lascannons and laser rapiers will also do it quite well if you want "generic" answers. Meltagun TSS will do it okay, kill like 3 per volley.
>>96111148Every legion used every unit (and consul type)
>>96111129You can even do 10 thallax. I wouldnt though, because thats a 600pts unit that will probably DS to its death.
>>96111384Some legions just dont have a lot. WS and NL also have very few, as do WE and EC. Not everyone is UM or TSONS
Practiced some colchis script on a tank hatch in preperation for work on an Aethon Sentinel for my WB legiones auxilia (along with trying to get a nice grey and red like the art).
Hope everyone's projects are going well.
>>96111917So he's absolutely no indicator of planned Consul options.
Consuls are limited by NMNR and always will be going forwards. The MoD has no model so GW doesn't give a fuck how you build him, but at the same time he has no future beyond this edition.
>>96111959>Consuls are limited by NMNRWhich is pretty dumb considering they have models in the weapon packs.
Consuls having limited gear is fine.
Consuls being boxlock is not.
If they decide champions shouldnt have thunder hammers all power to them, but what the fuck is that "volkite serpenta or combi melta", why not a bolt pistol? why not a plasma pistol? why not a combat shield?
>>96111959The new MoD is a better indicator of what consuls are going to be going forward than the consuls made 2 edition ago
>>96111995because they "dont want new players to feel that they have to buy multiple kits"
which is a massive fucking lie
>>96111860but original Rogue Trader lore had beakies fighting in the Horus Heresy
>its a thursday today
>no heresy thursday to look forward to
they could do a "heres a tease of whats revealed tomorrow" but I doubt it, shit sucks
did they throw out the ally matrix this edition?
>>96112038>massive fucking lieno shit. heavy weapons box, support weapons box, melee box, command squad box - so many extra kits required to make tacticals into other units
>>96112088Putting the command squad bitz on a bike squad box is hard, complicated, not encouraged. Putting the command squad bitz on a tactical box is what good people do.
>>96111995I know why, you know why, they know why.
But they don't outright say "we have zero integrity and want to make sure your only option is buying the specific character kits we produce because we are greedy jews", because there's STILL mouth breathing authority worshipping retards out there who really do believe their every lie.
>>96109992i remember when exemplary battles were free .pdfs
>>96112125>want to make sure your only option is buying the specific character kits we produce because we are greedy jewsWhat are centurions alex?
>>96112123>you ARE a good boy. aren't you, anon?
>>96112142The allied matrix was always retarded
>>96112153yeah, there should be no benefit or penalty for pairing legions according to the lore in a narrative driven game
>>96111510>Malding over not understanding prime slotsIt always amazes me just how retarded the average consumer is
>>96112168The new system really isnt complicated.
>>96112186Go for it. Melee admech finally being usable would be nice.
>>96112164NTA, but kinda yeah. Compared to 40k where there was some pairings that straight up didn't make sense like tyranids allying with orks and thus needing to be heavily discouraged, in heresy there's no real lore allying pairs that aren't at least in some way plausible once you take into account flipping loyalties, desperate battles, treachery, or different eras of the heresy. I'd rather Word Bearers allying with the dark angels because there's no penalty and the player wants to tell a story of an isolated outpost getting manipulated by ones they thought their brothers, then it being because for some fucking reason even back in 1.0 word bearers had more loyalist fellow brethren legions then traitors despite being the original traitors. How the fuck are they fellow brethren with dark angels but not world eaters, seriously.
>>96112164Yes. Because 2/3 of the matrix are down to the special brand of autism of the primarch or have no basis at all. The other 3rd are randomly determined by the legion relaions before or after the heresy starts with seemingly no reason for one or the other.
If you are allies you shouldn't be at each others throats. Shattered legions let you mix whatever you wanted so why can't you do the same with a normal allied detachment?
It makes a lot more sense that everyone can allie if they are the same allegiance but suffer Ld penalties if you have leader from a different faction joining the squad
>>96112164If the allied matrix made any sense half the legions would have every single relation in red. They were all largely different flavors of asshole that didn't trust each other all that much
>>96112044Yes, but that's fine. MkVI was designed during the heresy and rolled out in such quantity that it became the most common type by the closing stages of the conflict.
go file anon are you here?
litter.catbox.moe/ail1ux1742i2nujb.pdf
rulebook with bookmarks and search
>>96111921>Every legion used every unit (and consul type)No shit Sherlock.
>>96112186>3 units with 5 attacks each at S6 AP3 breaching 6+>plus some guys with the AP2 D2 powerfiststhe volkite chest laser isnt that bad either, wish it still had the funny melee attack though
>>96109377you make that exact same post 5 times every day
No one cares
>>96112281There is a surprising number of morons who seem convinced that all WS are welded to a bike, all RG use jump packs always, and that the only WE that exist are fresh inductii wielding chain axes.
>>96112195I quite like it though I do think having specialist hq like consuls unlock specific detachments is underutilized (some exist but too few) and the role symbols are retarded and throw me off when they don't match the unit, like the shock assault icon being a cataphractii but the unit being in mormal power armour.
>>96112352The slot symbols become even more retarded when you're not playing marines.
>>96112352>though I do think having specialist hq like consuls unlock specific detachments is underutilizedAbsolutely correct take, just about every consul should have had one aux detachment attached to them
>>96112355They are also hilariously low effor. I don't know whose idea they were. In general the new datasheets are like the old ones... but inexplicably worse in small ways for some reason.
>>96112281You would be surprised how many people act like that isnt the case. Like WS are only ever bikes and like WE are only ever melee or whatever.
Case in point: literally the post it was a response to, which was acting like a WS vigilatort is some weird thing.
>>96111658>Aod sold out in the UK within an hour lolNo it didn't, bitch liar. Faggot liar.
>>96112413Seethe more nigger
Should I do my TSon Heavy support with black helmets?
I think it'd be a bit neat
>me when the not limited product doesn't sell out
TLoS has ruined GW games for over a decade and watching people try to defend it is infuriating
>>96112511It's just newfags who never experienced anything else and don't know any better. Don't take anything they say seriously.
What is the least played Legion? I don't want to play the same legion as anyone else in my local scene, but I also don't want to interact with the local HH scene until I have a fully built and painted army.
>>96112563Raven Guard and Salamanders are usually some of the least played legions. Thousand Sons are also rarely played any more, since only WAACfags played them in 1.0 and they all quit in 2.0 because of the nerfs.
>>96112563Sons of Horus, because no one wants to be the schmuck who paints box art marines.
>>96112511Tlos basically indefensible outside of the most casual and smallest scale of games.
>>96112535TLOS has been in the game since 2nd edition, at what point are you not a newfag? 40 years?
>>96112580In 3.0 that's IW and Sal though.
>>96112203>>96112217>>96112217the matrix needed to be amended, not scrapped.
most pairings are neutral. some have bonuses. some have penalties.
>>96112352Yea, you could probably do more with it. Although a part of me thinks they kept marines relatively simple because its a new system and they didnt want to make the entry-level faction that most people play too complex.
You already have various people upset that the new system is overly complicated.
>>96112447I always wonder when I read posts like this; can they really be that retarded? Can they really be so dense, so dumb, so dimwitted, so utterly incapable of complex thought that they can't grasp that just because they will continue producing more of a product in future that doesn't negate the fact that a finite amount of that product exists right now? And further, can they really be so obtuse, so oblivious, so unaware that they genuinely don't understand that most GW products sell the vast majority of the units they will ever sell during the initial preorder period regardless of whether they're FOMOfag shit or part of the regular range?
GW's entire business strategy is predicated on clearing out as close to 100% of the initial production run as they can because a few previous missteps(over-printing foreign language versions of GorkaMorka and various epic flops like Dreadfleet and Dominion, all of which required GW to mulch huge amounts of unsold product at their expense) have left them utterly paranoid about having unanticipated leftovers, especially since they moved to a more "just in time" model to try and alleviate their production capacity issues. People talk about FLGS sales as a done-deal, but when there's a *real* flop like this might be they're forced to do buybacks to keep their bigger partner retailers sweet, and if they don't for whatever reason they know it will mean product being heavily discounted by indies to clear stockrooms and those minis will be floating around ebay and the secondary market for years impacting their ability to make money on future releases for those factions.
>>961126054th edition didn't have TLOS.
>>96112609I'd rather have no matrix at all rather than it not existing for 80% of pairings and whatever the designer's favorites getting random bonuses whole whoever got through short end of the stick gets shafted
>>96112605The fuck are you talking about I only started in 6th and even I know that TLOS was introduced in 5th.
>>96112617>You already have various people upset that the new system is overly complicated.You always get retards that haven't read the rules complain about how those rules are too complicated. Unless GW says they are simple, then they will be simple no matter how the rules actually are.
>>96112621None of this negates the fact that GW won't ever sell out of a starter set that isn't limited. Especially not during fucking pre-orders.
>>96112645(2nd edition rule-book; page 26):
"Usually it will be obvious that a model can't shoot because there is a hill, a building, or some other large and solid object in the way. However, in some cases it is difficult to tell if a line of sight is blocked or not, and players must stoop over the table for a "model's eye view". This is always the best way to determine whether or not a line of sight exists - some players even use small periscopes or mirrors to check the views from their models!"
>>96112621Imagine being so invested in wanting to see a product's downfall that you go full schizo lmao
>>96112563In 1.0 it was white scars. In 2.0 it was thousand sons. In 3.0, it'll probably end up being Raven Guard or something
>Corvus Corax dueling an unknown Death Guard Centurion, M31.006, Colorized
>>96112660Gee anon I think you forgot to mention a couple of things
>>96112563It will be ravenguard because their rules look unfun to play against, so no one wants to be that dick and play them.
In 2.0 it was being an ultramarine player that DIDNT just spam 20 Suzerain and actually played a proper Ultramarine army. Those were pretty rare.
>>96112755Updated cataphractii?
>>96112720You picked one of the worse primarchs for it. Corax does terrible damage, but hes one of the ones hurt the least by eternal warrior thanks to simply having a boatload of D1 attacks.
The gambit that sets the centurion to T7 will do a lot though.
Actually, how many turns does it take corax to kill a DG terminator centurion?
>11 attacks>hitting on 3s (6s crit)>wounding on 5s>4++11*1/6*1/2*2+11*1/2*1/3*1/2=2.75
So it will take an average of two turns for corax to kill a DG centurion.
>>96112755I like the new design, but I already committed to using indomitus and tartaros for my word bearers
>>96112755The new Cata look good, cant wait for them. The old kit has felt pretty small these days.
>>96109934We know. What I am saying is that the reason for delay is that the units with new plastic kits that will replace legacies units were never intended to be in the PDF. That way they could sell you them as DLC. They folded due to backlash and put everything in the PDF and will delete them when plastic comes out with new rules in paid dlc.
>>96112789They're fine, they match up to new plastics fine. 30k termis are mutants giants and are way too big.
>>96112799>were never intended to be in the PDF cope
Needing to release the list of units is definitely damage control but you are on heavy cope if you think they made the whole thing up in 2 days
>>96112789biggest downside of the old plastics is the cutoff heads. If these have full helmets they'll be an insta win for me
>>96112784With the prime benefit for eternal warrior it drops to around 1.8 wounds per turn, so 3ttk. Except its a challenge, so corax can keep it going for as long as he needs provided he maintains challenge advantage, which he will almost always have against a heavy model with 2 less initiative an 1 less initiative bonus than him.
As for the backswing?
With a thunder hammer a centurion does 4*1/3*2/3*1/2 damage, or like 0.5 wounds. So corax kills the centurion and takes like a wound in return. Even the shittest primarchs are still primarchs.
>>96112799>DelayAh yes, the PDF that was announced to be released in July that is now going to be released in July. Such delay.
>>96112755Not a fan of the randomly sized rivets
>>96112812>whole thing up in 2 daysNo one is saying that. They have weeks to add 3-4 units to the existing list. There is no way they wanted to put things that will come out in a journal in there. That's not GWs way.
>>96112660>>96112759#4 is the big one here. The TLoS system used from 5th Edition on didn't account for area terrain. If you wanted a patch of woods in your game, their effect was limited to the physical appearance of the woods model. Which left them either mostly useless or too thickly forested for units to use. This was a major contributor to the modern L-Pattern Ruins epidemic.
>>96112650Sure, but I have personally seen people struggle with the new system in regards to how detachments work and whatever else. Given a significant issue facing the edition is "inertia" and the inherent resentment from changing the way people are used to things working, making the change even more drastic or involved might have been riskier.
Im not saying they did it the best way they could have, but I am saying that marines being less involved with the new mechanics than admech is probably on purpose. It also doesent help that marines are a more flexible and large scale army, and that therefore benefits have to be more limited or something can easily break. You cant have the +2S +1W benefit for marines lest someone end up with bullshit terminators, or Av15 land raiders
>>96112812This is such a brainlet take. Have you got the legacies PDF?
>>96112856Release date has always been July and since the saturnine box is set to release 26th I assume the pdfs will be released the following mon-wed
>>96112872Not relevant. You don't know what's in the PDF.
All you have is the list of unit names. All they needed to do in 2 days is add to or write the list of unit names. Profiles can come later - the 2 day window only relates to the names, because that's all we got in those 2 days.
>>96112755"Terminator armor doesn't make marines taller" fags on suicide watch
>>96112896Anon you know those guys are clearly the same height right
>>96112755> ayo deez niggaz wearing skirts
>>96112881Neither do you, so any claims about what was already in or not are pure speculation.
>>96112905>Primaris scale vs heresy scaleNew catas won't be that big
>>96112755beyond crused cata
don't you dare touching them
>>96112755Fuck those new catas look sexy. Tempted to get a unit now.
>>96112911I'm not saying anything was or wasn't in it. But "How did they come up with all these profiles in 2 days" is a pointless question if we don't have the profiles. The only valid question is "How did they come up with this list of unit names in 2 days?" and the answer is that it's not actually that difficult to do.
>>96112896Look at where the eyes are, its basically the same. Theres more bulk and the overall profile is taller, but a lot of that is added armor on top of the marine.
>>96112914Anon that's how big people were saying nu-termies should be with the justification that termites should be taller than marines
>>96112755Not as bad as it could've been, but I still prefer the current ones.
>>96112755>HarrowcladeFor some reason the silly AL formation names sound fun and cool, but when NL make up names like "Flay-Theta" it just sounds cringe. Dunno why that is.
>>96112755Oh fuck, they've made the bottom of the greaves curve out like Nu-VI. Gay.
>>96112755Me when I get home from torso lengthening surgery
>>96112927No, but you have exactly zero proof that those unit names were made within two days, rather than prepared long before any of you immature raging retards were shitting yourselves.
>>96112755Oddly, lacking the elbow disc from the teased kit.
>>96112967I never said they were, just that saying it can't have happened by misrepresenting what needed to be done (that the profiles had to be made in 2 days) isn't a good argument as to why they couldn't have done what actually needed to be done (That the names had to be added in 2 days).
My point is not "They did this" my point is "Anyone saying they didn't have time to do this is lying or retarded."
>>96112952Insoles with real thick heels, they're tiptoeing inside that armour.
>>96112980Upgrade kit? the melee kit has those as well.
>>96112755I really should stop sitting on my ass and recast the calth box.
>>96112996The upgrade kits are mark-agnostic because nothing fits every armour mark.
A Cataphractii upgrade kit wouldn't need to be, because it's definitely not being cross-used with tartaros or indomitus.
>>96112755Weird that they're still using the old Mk IV.
>>96113008Is there anything that would stop them from sharing the one handed guns though? I don't think Cataphractii hands are different enought from tartaros hands to prevent cross use
>>96113008Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if the kit includes extra wristguard bits like mk3
>>96113020No, but it doesn't explain why the dedicated cata arm looks different to the cata arms seen in that image.
>>96113023They'd have to completely change tartaros arms.
>>96112952doesn't really work when done with an image taken at an angle from a bent book page
Especially when you look at the horizontal line right above their heads
>>96112914They aren't as far off as you want to think they are
scale
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>>96112755It's hard to tell due to the image being all wonky, but if one uses the line above their heads as reference, the Cataphractii eye level isn't that far from the PA one. Perfectly reasonable to assume slightly thicker soles and such.
>>96113082>New Cataphractii>Same 5 poses
Honestly desu now I kind of want a saturnine Command Squad around a nu-Cata praetor, something about the idea appeals to me
>>96113051>Especially when you look at the horizontal line right above their headsdon't tell him, that spoils the fun. if you let him go, he'll go searching for more discrepancies
>>96112980In the art they also look like they have the MkIV elbow pads GW decided to give MkVI as well.
>>96113053That page is curved look at the line above their heads that's printed. They're shorter
>>96113113the squad size is up to 12 now. watch it be two sprues of three poses for the box
>>96111396Salies are the poster child of 3.0
Best rules by far with crazy good primarch.
Unfortunately, this is 3rd edition...
>>96113170>It's still three of the five basic infantry poses.
Speaking of terminators, are there any terminator legs (don't care what pattern) that has segmented plating? All all around, not just on the back like on the cataphractii. Best one so far I've come across is the WS terminator praetor,
>>96112755Meh, I don't dislike them at all, but I'm not about to dump like 25 models just because they've redesigned
>>96113205Just call it a different sub-pattern. So like Mars-pattern vs Ryza-pattern
>>96113247I will call it the not-real pattern. All attacks from it are reduced to D0, because it can't hurt me.
>>96113265>iron warriors when presented with mk6 power armor
>>96112755>update mk2 design>update mk3 design>update mk5 design>update mk6 design>update cata design>mk4 but just biggerSomething ain't right
>>96113283I literally just said this opening tg, get it out my head. I'm just glad the Asterius seems to be the table quarter deleter with 7" blasts
>>96111841Looks good anon, I think they are gonna pop more with some shading in the recess areas
>>96112755I didn't spot these in the new rulebook, sauce?
>>96113290They've not settled on the Nu-IV design, or they don't want to reveal it yet.
>>96113278>take MkIII>strip the plates off of it and put them onto another MkIII>MkIII+III = MkIIIIII
>>96113301I am still betting on this mtfka right here
>>96113290>>96113301They're saving it for 4.0 for the meme
>>96113290The knees aren't flush and stick out, like the FW resins
I don't think Optae have niche to fill. They do have Centurion leadership at a cheaper cost, but Centurions unlock more detachments-per-point.
It would've been interesting Optae were given access to the same Consul upgrades. Specialists who aren't necessarily commanders. Like, being a good sniper or medic doesn't necessarily make you are a good commander, like being a good salesman doesn't mean you'd make a good manager.
Goddammit I want to get the PA Word Bearers Praetor from WTG but I'm struggling to think of anything else I want, but I can't just get one model at that point 40% of the Order cost is shipping
>>96113327I really hope this won't be part of the final design whatever shape it takes.
I don't know who the fuck thinks unflush kneepads look good but they're so wrong it's terminal.
>>96113304I'm quite fond of Vheren's design
>>96112755>Kept the flat belt buckleWhy?
>>96113328Detachments-per-point doesn't really matter if you only have 50 points to spare
>>96113378Vheren's armor caught my eye back then because it's an actual "armored mk2", you can see it lacks the elbow fins of mk3, plus you can see the clamps on the side of the legs present on the new mk2 tactical squad
If I had a lot of money to spend I'd commission a custom mk3 design based on that.
Vheren is very cool
Did the AoD box come with tac sergeant upgrades or are they only in the individual mk6 boxes?
>>96113404Every tac squad is composed of
- 4x 5 man sprues
- 2x sprues containing the sarge elements, the holsters and the standard bayonets.
Yes the AoD box came with them
>>96113379To put transfers on or freehand some shit
>>96112355Maybe they could do with faction agnostic symbols. Use the ones they've always had
>>96113436Holy shit this is so much more readable thank you
>>96113381>points to spareI think I'm going to begin writing my lists from the HQ down, not from the Army Vanguard up
>>96113447Looking at it again, I think I'll swap the First Strike with the Combat Pioneer symbol
>>96113462I'd say find a small add-on symbol to differentiate between vehicle or not and you're golden
>>96113482>>96113462I agree they are the wrong way round, but you could also do something with the Fast Attack cross.
>>96113436Would also have been a bright idea not to make a detachment called 'Heavy Support' and put the 'Heavy Support Squad' into the Tactical Support role.
Just, you know, basic proofreading and editing things.
>>96113502I lifted the symbols from the 2.0 Libers datasheets. Instead of an upwards arrow, troops were Triangle, and the Fast Cross and Heavy Delta weren't there :O
Symbols are cool
>>96113482>differentiate between vehicle or notSome First Strike squads are infantry and some Pioneers are vehicles. Or robots; that's where Vorax are, right?
Maybe Lightning for Fast, and Cross for Recon lol
>>96112685Imagine being such a teeny-weeny peabrain subnormal that more than five words in a row is "full schizo".
>>96112657Apart from all the times it's happened, you mean?
What would you guys suggest I use for transfers on my blackshields?
They're not one of the canonical black book blackshields so I don't think the transfers for them would work
>>96113623yo this guy talking to a shark
>transfersbretonnia has some decent sigils that may work
>>96113623Shark shark shark
>>96113623Get some urban decals and make them look like they parked their armour on the wrong side of down for too long.
>>96112755I kinda like it. Hopefully the new kit isn't completely stripped down garbage like the nu-PAs
>>96112755The pauldrins are molded onto the chest carapace and the arms swingnfreely underneath it like the 40k custode terminators, I guarantee it.
>>96112805Tf you're smoking. TrueScale Terminators should be 48mm at top of helmet.
>>96113669Why would it not be?
>>96113685Probably, until I see the kit I'm assuming it's garbage
I've just realized it could be a sprue of 2 or 3 dudes instead of the 5 man sprue. Things can get a lot, lot worse
>>96113685But also cast in two pieces, one attached to the torso front (which is also attached to the abdomen and upper legs) while the rear half is attached to the torso rear.
Have to say, I'm not a fan of the extended plates. The old suits looked bulkier with the pads enhancing the shoulders beneath, rather than going beyond and making the shoulders look slimmer and weaker in comparison.
>>96113703> terminators are 10ft tall
>>96113751>using fanart as evidence
are mk4 arms noticeably out of scale with the consul models? I'm thinking of making a jump praetor out of the traitor herald and the only right hand pistols I have are mk4 ones.
>>96113783New HH arms are slimmer with smaller hands than before. It's up to you if this is a problem or not.
>>96113751Would the soles really be a whole foot thick? Platform ass niggas
>>96113801What kit/model is the arm + hand on the bottom from? The one with the tally mark on the vambrace with the finger gun
>>96113875>SoH armory>that one combi-bolter
>>96113888Sergeants can take combi bolters now. Can SoH sergeants take banestrike combi bolters?
>>96113900Hopefully
>combi bolters on sargeFucking finally
>>96113907If they can it means this shit has been plotted out for at least that long and we've been played like a damn fiddle.
Image
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>>96113870That arm + Siege Breakers's right arm.
Cap
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>>96111148Space Marine Legions weren't just flanderized, one-trick ponies.
Sure, each Legion had its favorite way to fight and its own vibe, but they were massive, complete armies, ready for anything. Their Praetors were master tacticians who knew exactly how to use every piece of gear they had. Every Legion requested, had, and used all the different kinds of weapons and vehicles the Imperium could offer.
The World Eaters still had plenty of snipers. They weren't just about the chainaxes.
The Alpha Legion weren't just meme Team Fortress spies; they also rolled out with big, powerful armored columns of tanks more times than you can count.
The Raven Guard aren't just ninjas; they still set up huge numbers of heavy artillery batteries and even deployed extensive planetary defense forces.
The White Scars aren't just "gotta-go-fast" ColdSteel at the Hedgehog Academy.They also brought entire flocks of Cataphractii, Saturnine, and Leviathan Dreadnoughts because these were invaluable strategic pieces.
Even the notoriously slow Death Guard had huge numbers of jetbikes, speeders, and air support at their disposal.
No Legion was stuck doing just one thing. They used every single weapon, vehicle, and trick in the book to win wars across the entire galaxy.
>>96113832It's meant to be rad shielded isn't it??
With artificer armor sargeants gone do you think power spear terminators will be any use? You'd be able to stab up guys usually before they attack. You have the same issues against WS5 but it's not like power fists don't.
>>96113918Glad Iโm not the only one autistically studying bits to make kino looking conversions
>>96113958An autist looks at kits like a carpenter looks at trees.
>>96113983What a quote hah.
>>96113921The legions were equipped to do anything but most of them would default to a couple preferred strategies whenever possible.
>>96111517Is in the liber, its just deep Strike or auto die
>>96113955Power spears are defensive tools. You take them to kill enemies before they can attack you and thereby suffer less damage in return.
Problem is Swords already do that against axes/mauls and axes/mauls already do that against TH/fists. Spears are only really powerswords that strike faster than powerswords.
my last game of 2nd edition
>>96113762Maybe marines being actual 8ft tall would be fine. 7ft is tall but doable. 8ft is inhuman and unnatural
>>96113436This looks a 1000 times better holy shit
>>96114046Hope you had fun anon, your models are looking gorgeous as usual, and that Titan is a nice sight
>>96113921>Even the notoriously slow Death Guard had huge numbers of jetbikes, speeders, and air support at their disposal.True, but they actively chose to not use them unless strictly necessary
>The Death Guard had no dedicated assault squads โ every marine was expected to be capable in melee combat, and each battle brother carried a heavy knife for close quarters battle
>>96114062like you wouldn't believe, i played against my own titan
>>96114069it was great, a 6000pts game where i had to bring another 3600 of mechanicum for my opponent
>>96110735>mars pattern predator executioneractually it looks like pic related from Imperial Armour
>>96114026>Spears are only really powerswords that strike faster than powerswords.Good, really. 2.0 spears were faster swords that also hit harder. Now they aren't as oppressive. Though I think swords are still behind, and could stand being given something:
At S4 vs T4, S+2 on mauls take them from wounding on 4+ to wounding on 2+, which is a +66% damage increase.
At 2A, if a sword was given +1A over other weapons, that would be a +50% damage increase, less than what mauls get.
So, Swords would defeat Mauls, Spears would defeat Swords, and Mauls would defeat Spears
>>96113916It do be like that
>>96112755Surprised that most like new catas. I think I'm the only retard that hates them. And I love OG.
New cata will absolutely be smaller than 40k indom
>>96113955Power spears now have Precision lmao. You might snipe power weapon wearers from among the squad. I'd rather wish they had Breaching 6 like the other power weapons. That way they'd fit this better
>>96114149
>>96114121That helmet looks just like the Praetorian Command Squad's
>>96114162Giantfags destroyed
>>96114114>>96114133Which legion would she collect?
>>96114162>>96114188They probably arent getting taller, just changing up detail. Looks like thinner shoulders and added thigh plates. Pic here is new mkvi, plastic cata, and a resin cata. They might gain more width too
>>96114162>Mk4 visibly stretchedMate
>>96114192Girls don't belong in the 30k hobby.
>>96114192Word Bearers. To spread the word of the Priestess.
>>96114208Yes, i didn't correct width but I matched the printed line above both and their feet. That is the correct height, but incorrect width
Still looking around for good models to serve as base for an Excindio for my DA.
Would some of the M.Ka models work? They have a design language that's very different from imperial tech (and far more in line with the one man of iron depiction we have).
I think the almost feral look of this model in particular would look great as a basis but I'd like to get some input from /hhg/
>>96114222Dunno mate. Considering there's plenty of of upscaled terminator praetors I think we already know how big the new cataphraii will be.
>>96114238Essentially this but with more arms and guns and probably some of the plating removed
25
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>>96114240Characters are huge. The regular armor Praetor from the 2e box is a giant; hes a full head taller than a nubeakie and he is just in artificer armor. You cant use characters to predict scale.
Here is a slight width correction.
>lie about peoples armies still being valid
>spit in players faces by removing options nobody asked them to remove purely for making it 40k-lite
>give the bare minimum to players after they kick up a stink about you lying to them and spitting in their face
>proceed to lie again
I hope you dont buy anything of 3rd and pirate all the books
>>96112755My very half-assed and bad attempt at fixing them.
>>96114242>One of my marines is secretly Alpharius and I have it written down in this sealed envelope.
>>96114260Too bad that I am all plastic SA player, so I am eating good this edition.
So, they're just redesigning everything? It really does feel like the current heresy team want to get rid of everything the prior team made.
>>96114278No, its corp mandate to make rules and kit as proprietary as possible. The got away with primaris in 40k so they're trying to pull it again.
>>96114278When most of the old designs were mde for Badab with extremely weird proportions on top of marine scale at the time being wrong in the first place I can see why.
>>96114240Marine characters are bigger than normal marines. Not a good comparison.
>>96114287This and primaris are universes apart.
>>96114301>source: reddit
>>96114260>lie about peoples armies still being validthey didn't
>spit in players faces by removing options nobody asked them to remove purely for making it 40k-lite3rd ed isn't even close to 40k lite and removing a handful of options from random units is hardly the same as the 40k situation where units have no options and everything is baked into the profile. Stop being a woman about it.
>give the bare minimum to players after they kick up a stink about you lying to them and spitting in their facethe legends pdf was always due since the first article on PDFs to come for 3rd, and if they did 'cave' to players it is hardly the bare minimum to cover most units often with duplicate entries with the options available.
>proceed to lie againabout what?
I know some people enjoy being mad but the only one lying is you to yourself. On top of that you actually intend to play the edition, which is the only thing actually objectionable about it.
>>96114329oh fuck off james, actual shill post
Will GW exchange me some truescale cataphractii if I give them back the old scale cataphactii they sold to me 3 years ago in the age of darkness box?
ftfy
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>>96114301>not much less acrosshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElogqKc7AIk
>>96114307They aren't selling you new replacement marine kits with different options? Eg Tartaros? If it wasn't for the HH being about conversion and hobby more, they would have been glad to keep fist Tartaros out of the legacies pdf.
>>96114264nicely done
dialing back the shoulder plates already does so much
>>96114162Those pauldrons protrude too much. They were almost seamless before
if gofile anon is here this is rulebook with bookmarks and search function
>>96112246
>>96114270Alpharius had such fun rules in HH 1e
>>96114212incel on suicide watch, must be a IF glazer
What's the best batrep channel? I love the SN format but it feels like every list is dreadspam
>>96114345Are you retarded?
>>96114362>They aren't selling you new replacement marine kits with different options?This is a normal model update like they've done hundreds of times. Sometimes there's a slight redesign. Sometimes options get added or dropped for various reasons. In the case of tartaros it's easy to assume they want more separation between them and cataphractii so they focus tartaros on power weapons while cataphractii gets the fists and different unit sizes. You might agree or not wether that's a good thing but it's no comparable to primaris trashing and changin every single design, every single unit in their entirety.
I envy the leaker. Imagine being responsible for costing GW millions in revenue single handedly. Going off my local scene the 3.0 launch has been a flop and HH will probably be less relevant than it was prior to 3.0, and it was already a niche game smaller than old world and kill team.
another day, another 0 saturnine boxes have sold, it's almost not worth checking anymore. The game had a pattering of sales on 11 then zero on 12-17th
>>96114536The paypig store in my city/only store that runs HH games sold a grand total of 6 boxes since pre order day. 3 on the first day and 3 since then.
>>96114079That doesent say what youre saying it does.
That quote is talking about how DG marines werent specialists, but rather could fulfill multiple roles. A marine might be an assault marine one deployment and a tactical the next, they were expected to do well in all regards.
They had assault marines, they didnt have deciated assault marine dudes.
>>96113996The legions were equipped for everything and would do everything. They had preferences and methods associated with them, but its not "world eaters always use a chain axe unless the situation is extreme", its "world eaters have a tendency for melee combat as part of their take on the generalist marine warfare they engage in like every other legion".
>>96114550that seems to be the general trend, that's how the LGS are doing in los angeles, dallas and new york (anons reported from all 3 regions)
And this is the 'hype' level with GW putting out 55 community articles spamming users non-stop. Imagine how dead HH3 is when the news articles become 40k primarchs Leman Russ returning and AOS crab knights again.
Is there any lore precedent for alternate Raven Guard colour schemes? Looking at the various loyalist legions to make a traitor force for and they seem cool but I don't want to just paint black.
>>96114536I've been watching my local LGS which is in a large UK city with 15% off. Its been sat at 9 remaining for the past 3 days now.
>>96114573Yeah I think this bodes extremely poorly for the future of the game. Not doing very well in North America is a death knell considering how much more popular 40k/HH is in NA relative to the rest of the world. I wouldnโt be surprised if this was the last edition of HH that was supported by GW.
>>96114518>changin every single design, every single unit in their entirety.It was gradually across editions. It started slowly too.
>>96114294>TFW you're old enough to remember all the resin HH models that were initially made for Badab
>>96114121My 40k Minotaurs and my 60th Line Korps are both orphean war (that IA book) era: that one's got a forge world Ryza pattern plasma cannon and is based on a Baal hull rather than a stalker bow plate like mine
probably quite obvious given the paint but my pred was originally intended for said Minotaurs, currently waiting a stripping and Ironwing colours
>>96114615>Baal hullMy headcanon is that its single view slit front plate is just the early version of the mk2 mars predator. Hence why you can find Baal preds with different hulls.
>>96114642Primaris was a total replacement day one of 8e? Zero first borns?
>>96114536>>96114550>>96114586>>96114573You know that number isn't real and its just a marketing thing, right?
>>96114622thank you anon!
>>96114529the whole "liber will have basically nothing, but download legacy rules in PDFs and paid DLC journals with only 3-5 units in them" strategy seems to have backfired.
The pirates werent paying either way so GW isn't hurting them with the approach, only making the pirates less likely to buy official GW minis to convert units which are now missing, and less likely to recommend the game for new customers.
The people who GW makes their money off buying paper books don't want to be forced to keep getting PDFs printed (which they are used to having imbalanced unfun rules because GW treating them usually as less-official-temp-rules for most systems)
The people happy to buy 2 paper books each 3 years get reminded on day 1 that they'll have to buy 14 books instead of those 2 because day 1 journal process starting, then those 14 books get outdated in 3 years.
The whole paid-DLC churn approach makes sense for an irreplaceable game like say War Thunder where you don't have an alternative for airplane combat... but horus heresy 3 has no market dominance currently and a hundred alternatives (even HH1-2 and 40k and AOS and spearhead from same company) so people will just ditch. Crazy decision.
>>96114652anon, you are retarded and a kike
>>96114608i'm a bong but in my local area, where every "veteran" player plays heresy (not all the time, but its a favoured game), they only sold 3 boxes
>>96114671>It was slowly across editions >No>So it was instant?>REEEEEEGet help.
>>96114652Posted from Tel Aviv
>>96114666>marketing that youโve sold 1 box a day ???
>>96112755>No gap between pauldron and torso.It's beautiful.
>>96114696They understate stock and sales to encourage impulse buying.
>>96114676Grim
>>96114716Itโs not really fishing for impulse buys when they claim to have 24 in stock a week after the pre order date. Selling 1 box a day on average. Rather the opposite, it screams take your time this isnโt going anywhere.
>>96114666>IGNORE THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR EYES>Pweese belieb that this flop launch uhh,, secretly is sold out at all those stores that currently saying there is no hurry to place an order because they have plenty of boxes in stock and demand is incredibly low!Take your meds, shill employee. And report to your manager that our satisfaction with your service is 0 stars.
When a shop wants to pretend there's demand they go on etsy and post 1 Item Remaining and in 3 people's carts, hurry now!! not 19 IN STOCK YOU CAN WAIT MONTHS
Has anybody seen the orbital assault vehicle rule yet? I cannot find it.
>>96114716>understate stockIf they did that, then the launch did even worse as they have 50+ worthless boxes and zero customers. But no, you're simply making shit up and nobody in the world is believing you.
>>96114739It's just must deploy via deepstrike or die
>>96114736I didn't say anything like that, I just said not to trust those numbers. Its weird soneone like you would
So in 3.0 you can only shoot with a model that has LoS to any enemy in the target unit, but you can kill models you don't have LoS to?
Meaning if the SoH unit shoots at the IF, all SoH models can shoot and all IF models can die.
If the IF unit Returns Fire, only the two top models can actually shoot back since the rest have no LoS
Am I getting that right? Because if so, it's incredibly retarded and probably easy to abuse
I will get my box next saturday and I will have fun building the models and playingbthe game.
>>96114652In practice? Yes.
>>96114769>IF out of cover go down to fire trying to shoot back>IF in cover get headshit trying to drag their buddies back into cover
>>96114761source: He made it entirely the fuck up.
>>96114769correct. Terrain and LoS are the worst they have ever been.
>>96114795Are you a subnormal? Because you seem incapeable of responding to peoples post properly
>>96114778you won't have fun playing the game, and I'll have exactly the same fun painting the box in the fall when the price has dropped from $268 to sub200, maybe even 180. That'll leave me extra money towards a whole combat patrol to paint that you won't be able to buy.
>>96114769>but you can kill models you don't have LoS to?No.
>>96114790>In practice >Except for all the first born units in the 8e, 9e, and 10e codicesPrimaris was never so saturated as 10th. It took editions to get that far
>>96114812>why won't people agree with me when I make up retarded lies online, something is wrong with everybody!
>>96114804Personally I think they were going in the right direction with terrain and LOS, but then they dropped the ball on the minutia of it that really mattered, like how far you can see into terrain (should make it 6" like 3rd/4th 40k), and shitty casualty allocation.
>>96114833Wrong. HH3 now requires LoS only when selecting the target unit, not during casualty removal. If you see one single model's toe you can wipe the entire squad behind a building.
>>96114804this has nothing to do with LoS nor terrain and everything to do with wound allocation
>>96114842I never asked you to agree with me
>>96114832>you won't have fun playing the gameI will tho? Not getting shot off the board turn 2 by six dreads makes the game better.
>That'll leave me extra money towards a whole combat patrol to paint that you won't be able to buy.But i don't want 40k stuff and I can afford it anyway. I also bought a Venator, Vindicator, MkVI box as well this month.
>>96114841Sure, but the replacement was done in 8th. The radical changes of units and aesthetics already happened in 8th. Suggesting that a slight redesign to the armour while keeping units 90% identical is the same as primaris in 8th is idiotic.
>>96114769>The rules writers actually think this is simpler and go out of their way to write a paragraph about why they are right It's so fucking dumb
If I find someone to play this with I'll try suggesting non retarded wound allocation to them...
I get that keeping tray of what model has what weapons in particular and LoS to what models that could or could not die before that group might be overly complicating it too much
But saying 'A model can't have any wounds allocated to it unless LoS can be drawn to it from at least 1 enemy model in the attacking unit' is not fucking rocket science, is it?
>>96114901Hey, you dropped this
>>96114920That's how it worked in 2.0 and it was great.
>>96114920most shooting attacks (minus ZM) occurred this way because the majority of terrain were ruins with windows at ground level and you could simply draw LoS through those holes/portals
if the ZM rules they're waiting four months to drop don't address this, then it's fucked
>>96114933The point still is and has always been that comparing thia to primaris is fucking retarded and you should feel ashamed for suggesting that primaris are as harmless as removing powerfisrt from tartaros or adding armour tassets to cataphractii.
>>96114963>you should feel ashamed for suggesting that primaris are as harmless as removing powerfisrt from tartarosI don't... think you read the conversation very well, Anon.
>>96114983Pray tell me what does saying that primaris being progressively released on the topic of these small changes might suggest other than drawing a stupid and unreal comparison between them?
What does a Crozius even do?
>>96115036It bonks people on the head
>>96115036It's a power maul with 2D
>>96115036Counts as Power Weapon
I updated a classic 4th ed 40k campaign for 30k as a teaching aid for new players in my club and to get them on board with narrative content in general
Some of youse able to take a look?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dS_pad0gIZ0ublkU-sp5UNGEDG0sM1a9
>>96115036Smashes heretic skulls.
>>96114529>costing GW millions in revenueThat's like, a hundred books :^)
Why is everyone surprised GW didn't include everything under the sun in a new book? They want new players. New players would be overwhelmed and not understand a thing. Grow some empathy and just think for once being in their shoes
>>96115066Jesus Christ that's a lot of Dolphin porn.
Where the fuck did you even get that?
>>96115099>surprisedThat is not the emotion people are feeling or displaying, but maybe you have autism, so this would explain why you got some of those mixed up.
>>96115107>FOR YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUvUUUUUUU
>>96114832>You are having fun wrongPeak TG
>>96113395Never noticed that until this post.
>>96115099all the new people that got into 30k in 2e have been cretins and weirdos
I don't want new players, I want good players
Are there any stories told from the perspective of the Imperial Heralds before the rediscovery of Lorgar? I've looked around and am coming up short.
>>96115130Cheers, happy to hear
t. Autismus
>>96115099>New players would be overwhelmed and not understand a thing.If a new player can't understand a consul having wepaon options I don't think they are prepared to play the game in general.
>>96115134Enjoy your 3rd players who homebrew their AFAB characters :>)
>>96108365What that picture makes me think of
https://youtube.com/shorts/FZZ8T88PqQA?si=W511xjGfxR0uSsRO
I need some stl's of gore and trophies for my Night Lords, that and is running a shitton of aircraft as a list ok? i dont wanna be that guy...i just like planes
>>96115189THEY HIT ME WITH A DRACOSAN
>>96115160>AFAB charactersI dont know what that means, and youre weird if you do.
>>96108365wolfdawg's incessant wanking of solar auxilia will never not be cringe
>>9611510522 terabytes no less
Here and there anon
>>96115215>incessant wanking>a whole squad barely taking down one random despoiler
>>96115218Of course, I should have known
Anyone have the volkite marine page? Or at least could someone tell me what the overcharged volkite gun does for the miritat?
>using harpoon weapons in dogfights at supersonic speed
Based retards
auxi
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>>96115223>thinking it's limited to that one image
>>96115256>crashing this plane>with no survivors
>>96114508What else am I supposed to do with the worthless old models??? I want lore accuracy, not midget terminators
>>96112905>>96112896do you guys think the dude's fingers go into the fingers on a power fist
>>96115099This isn't and has never been am actual problem.
Literal children play warhammer, including editions where units have had extensive wargear options. The average person picking up horus heresy is not less capable of reading and understanding English or of building model kits than I was when I was 10 years old. Moreover this is a specialist game, not babies first wargame, so even if this justification was legitimate it wouldn't be applicable to this particular.
Even if we accepted that both were legitimate excuses the simplified rules for baby's first game are what the quickstart rules in the starter set are for, the $70 army book that is sold separately should contain all of the rules that pertain to the army that it is for.
>>96114016Where? I've looked in special rules, equipment, vehicles & transport, unit types, and deep strike. I cannot find it.
>>96115280Pay up then piggie, it's time for new product
Does literally anything in the game have higher BS than Exodus?
I thought his rules looked pretty meh for 165 pts (and still kind of do) but 4+ Crits and precision hits on an ap2 rifle with 6 feet of range d2 if he didn't move (probably D3 because of the crit) and 8 strength is kind of wild
>>96115327Dont think so. Hes pretty good as a sniper. Wait until vindicares come out with BS9.
>>96115327can't you have multiple of this guy too?
Am I wrong to assume this is probably the death of Horus heresy? By that I mean official support. Itโs not like HH was doing incredible prior to 3.0 and if this is all the traction they can gain with nonstop heavy marketing then I donโt think it stands a chance once things die down. Iโm sure the bean counters at GW are already ringing the alarm bells.
>>96115327He's cool but a Paragon of Battle Vigilator does something very similar for a lot less points
Can someone post the new cataphractii rules? I know they are max 12 but what's the min size of the unit?
>>96115355>The starter set didn't sell out!!!!!! >The game is fucking worthless and will not see any more releases!!!!!Do you get off on pointless doomerism?
>>96115364>max 12I swear to god if they do 3 men sprues
>>96115388If the min size is 5 like
>>96115383 says I think 6 man sprues (split in two sprues so 4 sprues per box) are more likely.
>>96115348Yes. It's some great meme list material.
>>96115348Yep, and I think it would be extremely funny to take a million allied detachments filled with Exodii
>>96115356That's true, you're paying 70 points for slightly more range (doesn't really matter when the base is 48"), better strength and AP, not taking up a prime slot, and pretty importantly losing the ability to join a unit (which fucking sucks)
I think Exodus is worth taking if you have the points but for 25 points more you could just take two Vigilators, which can do more damage, are more survivable, and can target different things
Does anyone know what rapid tracking does?
do you think they are going to redo some of the older edition models in plastic?
i want to start an Iron hands HH army as i also play them in 40k, but i might just wait because a lot of the chapter specific stuff is out of stock. Picrel
>>96114238I have been running the hunds as domitars.
>>96115379The starter set sold like shit in the problem. Do you think a business looks at a failed flagship product and says โ letโs put more resources into this and try to salvage it โ or do they not fall for sunk cost fallacy and put those resources towards something that is proven to be more profitable?
>>96115434Yes and no
Yes they are going to redo old resin units
But
1) the model might be a downgrade
2) special units might become shitty upgrade packs
TL;DR: if you really like a model, you have 4 options:
1) buy it before it goes OOP
2) recast it
3) Find a scan STL online
4) Magnificently convert and sculpt the details of the old minis onto a newer model
>>96115408tells you exactly where your parcel is
>>96115434They said generic stuff is in plastic and legion specific stuff in resin.
Glad these are no longer esential, they suck ass to transport
>>96115475And in a more recent livestream they said legion specific in plastic
And for this edition they also said: "accelerating the move to plastic"
>>96115453I can't even imagine caring about this as much as you do
>>96115483You canโt imagine caring about whether the game whoโs general you are in lives or dies? Who are you trying to fool. It doesnโt help to stick your head in the sand.
>>96115458i bought some recasts of the iron hand terminators for HH from dark miniatures, takes 3 months to deliver because its from russia.
I might pickup some mk3 generic marines so i can actually get started on some hh stuff.
Thanks for the reply anon! I think ill hold off on buying recasts of the more chapter specific stuff to see if they redo them in plastic.
>>96115475> stuff that is constantly out of stock they are keeping resin why tho, all the generic stuff is still in stock.
>>96115476Every banner does the same thing. It's pretty boring
>>96115434I think they are going to remove all legion specific units and tell you to use IH pads with the breacher squad to make the equivalent
Same thing they did to IF units
>>96115434Honestly, who knows.
Corporate thinking is so alien to the way any of us think. Maybe they redo everything in plastic, maybe they cut their losses and drop HH.
All the old resin stuff is from another age and design philosophy, so if you want that specifically, then get it because what
>>96115458 said is very true.
If you just want IH stuff in plastic, just buy the plastic stuff and paint it IH colors, since that is what this edition is looking like for legion identity right now. This could change drastically when Legacies drop.
>>96115453Hard for something to sell before it's released. Much less with the whole missing units dilemma thanks to leaks making people not preorder.
>>96115489If GW stopped making anything for HH I would not care, no
It'd probably be an over all improvement to be honest
>>96115099It's more about HOW they went about it that was scummy
Let me give you an example or 2
>If it's not in the box it's not in the book So this is a bad one where things like breachers who only come with grav bolters and las cutters used to be able to take volkite and melta guns..there is no reason they could not have just been added to the sheet in the book.
Then you have tartaros which literally come with fists in the box but they don't have fists in the rule books
>Consistency is out the window Another major issue is GW is out right lying and being caught. They said the liber has entries of just what's in the box to make it easy for people, except there is no "heasy support squad" box. So gw is fine with having entries for hss that require you to buy tactical and then buy a weapon box, but gw is not fine with you buying a sky hunter box and a melee weapon box to make a command squad on sky hunter.
>They admit they are going to charge you money for this Worse yet in the article they even give their game plan away. They say they are going to update the pdf rules and invalidate them with new entries of them in future publications so they are not even hiding it.
Basically GW is making dlc for units we had for free
>>96115482That's sort of the joke.
>>96115498One day we might actually come to miss banana fur with the weird face varagyr over bland generic marines everywhere
>>96115522I fell for poe's law, here my woe. D'oh
So what exactly does the gambit rock-paper-scissors look like in your opinion?
Reading through the rules (legion specifica aside). Seize the initiative, feint and riposte, and finishing blow in particular all seem quite a bit better than the others
>>96115434Psst hey buddy
https://boosty.to/bminis
>>96115521>guns..there is no reason they could not have just been added to the sheet in the book.>Then you have tartaros which literally come with fists in the box but they don't have fists in the rule booksBoth of these are easy to guess. The new kits don't come with those weapons. In the case of breachers they won't be compatible with the weapon packs (since they use the guns one handed). But this doesn't apply to many other units which makes this very, very inconsistent.
>>96115549Feing and riposte seems quite risky. Yes, you prevent a problematic enemy gambit, but you end up with none yourself.
My personal expectation that flurry of blows and finishing strike (or grandstand) will end up as the goto "damage" ones, but maybe im underestimating the benefit of going first. Legion gambits seem generally fairly tame outside the IF, BA and NL ones.
Personally I expect it comes down to a couple of things (like what the combatants actually are). If you outclass the opponent you probably want to just seize or flurry, try and go first to kill them. If you are even then finishing strike or grandstand should give you the damage you want to seal the deal, if you are behind you either want to hope for a clutch crit or to go guard up for defense.
Breakpoints also matter. A 5w terminator praetor or a 6w saturnine praetor takes 3 damage 2 hits but only 2 damage 3 hits. A 4w terminator centurion or regular praetor takes two hits regardless. A 3w centurion takes 1 d3 hit but 2 damage 2 hits. Add to that spike potential with critical hits for some weapons.
All in all the system looks sufficiently complex that I dont think theres just an obvious "this is the best" gambit (although mathematically there obviously is one)
i hope the new breachers are an upgrade kit. the numk3 is complete dogshit
>>96115656Same. The shields look nice, but if you're forced to buy the dogshit numk2 with it that's a no deal.
>>96108179 (OP)Thinking of doing mechanicum for 2.0 as my first force - was going to do AL but losing the bug for it. Mech look fun, a bit of a vampire force with strong shooting and ok melee. Any tips for collecting them? Also post mechanicum models
Can someone post the Implacable advance rule? I've been looking at the leaks for hours and I might be retarded but I cant see it anywhere
>>96115768Volley with anything non heavy or ordnance
>>96115760Ok let me set you straight right away here anon: in 2.0 there is no such thing as ok melee for Mech. All their melee units are utter dogwater, that can't handle anything above a 10 man tactical squad reliably. Now admittedly the shooting that Mech can put on the table is such overpowered bullshit that they can get away with not having proper melee units, but if you do field lots of myrmidons and thanatar you're not gonna make friends.
>>96115768a lot of the special liber rules are still missing
Wait. So Destroyers aren't in the Liber, but Moritats are. Can they still join them?
>>96115760If you want ok melee for mech play 1.0. Outside of kytans and decimators there isn't anything and the 2.0 cybertheurgy doesn't even buff melee like the 1.0 did.
>>96115796Yes. It's because resin Destroyers are getting pulled. New plastic kit or just a cull, we don't know.
>>96115796Not related but I would bet my life savings on destroyers returning with a full plastic kit and proper rules in a tactica journal at some point. They are too beloved by players to be put on ice for long. I mean, GW didn't even dare to make pr*maris terminators and just upscaled Indomitus instead.
>>96115476>Copies the Word Bearer's legion trait
>>96115840They also had rules introduced clearly aimed at them. Firestorm and volley fire are clearly meant for units like destroyers and terminators, to let their hybrid firepower shine.
SOVL
md5: aba44fd0dabaebd598769d3e346c6422
๐
>>96115476>Doesn't put banners on his models even if they don't do anythingYou ain't my nigga.
>>96115861Word Bearers trait being a full vexilla this time is a glow up compared to second.
>>96115878Does it stack with Vexilla?
>>96115861Plopping a vexilla in the Word Bearers for an auto +2 to combat res may not be so bad.
>>96115887yes, word bearers get +1 to combat res free always.
Its not a very strong trait imo, but it should matter more since combat res is much lower this time (based on models killed, not wounds caused). In terminator slap fights it should matter.
>>96115889Damn, that could be nasty on units with Vanguard. Starting combat with +2 to combat resolution could lead to tacticals having to test leadership with a stat going into the negatives.
>>96115897It doesn't need charges right?
>>96115907And remember Gal Vorbak, Mhara Gals, and most word bearers characters have fear. Really the biggest trouble for word bearers is their lack of any special unit for dealing with Terminators, which is why I decide to pivot my one squad of indomitus to have mostly thunder hammers with a few twin lightning claws.
>>96115796Moritats don't have Bitter Duty. The legion destroyer variants still have it. So unless it does something else you can't join Moritats to destroyers, which is kind of weird unless they are planning a consul that has bitter duty for whatever reason
>>96115969Yeah there are more than plenty of legion agnostic units that deal with terminators, don't need to have a legion specific unit for that. Terminator Command squads go up to 10 now too, and still have WS 5.
>>96115959Nope. If youre in combat and you are a word bearer, you get +1 combat resolution for free. The only limitation is that it doesent stack per unit (so two units of WB in the same combat still only give +1 to their side)
Actually might make word bearers good to ally in. Just sprinkle optae around for +1CR everywhere
>>96115969Wouldn't Assault Vets deal with termies better? Fast WS5 hammers, high speed low drag
>>96116014But I don't want assault veterans I want Terminators
>>96108179 (OP)The colour plate pages for world eaters doesn't have a chain axe but sons of horus does.
>>9611603310 man cataphractii command squad with thunder hammers in the spartan party bus, brother
>>96116040This is the final insult.
>>96116012You don't need Majority? :O
>>96116014Unless youre night raptors, you dont want to be fighting terminators without an invuln. And even if youre raptors you mostly want to fight generic terminators rather than legion elites.
Vets into terminators (generic):
30*2/3*5/6*1/2 = 8.3 terminators dead
Vets into terminators (legion elite/command squad)
30*1/2*5/6*1/2 = 6.25
terminators (ws4) swinging back:
20*1/3*5/6*2/3(if with combat shields, which why not) = 3.7 vets dead
terminators (legion elite) swinging back:
30*1/2*5/6*2/3 =8.3 vets dead
Night raptors do much better in both cases since they swing with thunder hammers BEFORE the enemy swings their thunder hammers.
So their backswing is:
4*1/3*5/6 = 1.1 raptors dead
and
12*1/2*5/6 = 5 raptors
respectively
A legion vet with hammer and shield costs around 39pts, a raptor with hammer costs 40. A terminator with thunder hammer (vanilla) costs 40ppm and an elite terminator costs around 50ppm.
>>96116054Nope. If you have any WB, get a point.
>>96116079Looks good. Vets win against Generic Termies, and lose against Elite/Retinue termies. That's good, no?
>>961160792bh i think the command terminators suck because they dont have vanguard and the stupid 4 turn game is built around vanguard cheesing easy VPs
>>96116012Joining characters to other factions units lowers your Ld and Cool
>>96116120Almost like putting scoring criteria on units and not on missions was dumb.
>>96116115Its not bad, but you have to remember that vets are also more fragile to shooting. Terminators are t5 2+ 4++ (im assuming cata terminators) while vets are t4 3+ (5++ in melee). So you can probably assume they take more damage on the way in/before the fight than the terminators, especially with stuff like volley fire.
A unit of (non SoH) terminators with volley fire do something like
40*1/3*1/2*1/3 = 2 wounds, so thats you a veteran down already. So even against generic terminators you end up down half a veteran squad.
You still obviously take that trade if you can get it, but theyre not some fantastic answer that bullies terminators badly.
>>96116120>>96116127Command squads are still probably the best all round fighters most if not all legions have. So it balances out. You give up scoring power for being better in combat/more cost effective, or you take the far less durable and veterans/regular terminators which can score vanguard points if they do win.
>>96116137>Command squads are still probably the best all round fighters most if not all legions have. So it balances out. You give up scoring power for being better in combat/more cost effective, or you take the far less durable and veterans/regular terminators which can score vanguard points if they do win.that sounds great until you actually play the game and get ass reamed by justaerin that score tons of VPs and are basically a command squad.
somehow hh3 is even less balanced that hh2 kek
>>96112406>Case in point: literally the post it was a response to, which was acting like a WS vigilatort is some weird thing.Because it's not what most people think when they see WS, not that WS don't use vigilators. Hence: no shit sherlock.
I swear, for people complaining about how people don't get something, some people really can't understand a simple question and jump over each other to repeat a well known piece of lore nobody asked for.
>>96115782>>96115808I thought the secutors were ok especially when paired with a myrmidax magos but I must've read that wrong. I'm getting in with my friend so most likely just us playing against each other for a bit, he's doing WS so I'm not overly fond of getting into melee
>>96116143Justaerin with thunder hammers are like 65pts each. Yes, they will beat basically everything in the game dead (until custodes get rules), but theyre also REALLY fucking expensive and the points difference might not be very cost effective.
A command squad kills over half the justaerin squad in that fight, sure, theyre also going to be reduced to a puddle, but its basically MAD at that point. They have 33% more damage than any other terminator (unless youre NL with trait procced or WE or EC on the charge) but theyre still only as durable as a normal terminator.
>somehow hh3 is even less balanced that hh2 kekI highly doubt the justaerin, that start at 50ppm, will be very oppressive for the game. Especially since they then need a transport (spartan?) to transport them. Meaning a unit of 10 ends up at 1000pts on its own.
>>96116167none of that shit you said actually matters
>oh they are a lot of points whatever its a 1000 point unitdoesnt matter. they score 5 VPs when they easily smash your unit off an objective and in a stupid 4 turn game that means they win the game.
>>96116151>FW does everything in their power not to turn legions into one trick ponies>WS vigilator????????We failed Bligh....
>>96116177>doesnt matter. they score 5 VPs when they easily smash your unit off an objectiveThats great, unfortunately they ended up reduced to below effective combat strength in the attempt (because thunder hammers) and because this unit and their delivery method were 1/3 of your army you ended up losing every other point except this one. Meaning you are still behind on points (and your justaeirin are either going to be finished off via shooting or wiped out by a 2nd melee unit)
Next time stick a saturnine praetor in there, maybe horus.
I think Vigilators should be BS6, not 7. Like a Champion. Crit on 6s, not 5s. Make him a Paragon of Combat and he gets BS8. That's even more than Alpharius.
That does Crits on 4+ to hit. And Crits are counted as 6s to wound, so on a 4+ to hit he does 3D AP2 lol.
Gamble this you fuck lmao.
>>96116181>stereotypes: exist>doing the opposite of the stereotype: funny>anon: flabbergasted by the funny
>>961161775vp out of 20+? Camp line on the objective where they aren't standing. Use a movement reaction to run off the point on their turn so vanguard doesn't trigger. Vanguard should be hard to get if you opponent isn't feeding you units to kill.
I'm the history of 30k, a telegraphed land raider party bus is the easiest thing to work around.
>>96116194>That does Crits on 4+ to hit. And Crits are counted as 6s to wound, so on a 4+ to hit he does 3D AP2 lol.So half the time he risks killing a centurion (that has an invuln)? Seems like an okay thing for a consul with no melee power to do, especially since this takes a prime benefit.
>>96116189>their delivery methodspartans are one of the best units in the game
>were 1/3 of your army you ended up losing every other point except this one.no lmao. tacticals in rhinos arent expensive and 1/3rd of your army in an auto-win the game unit isnt a big commitment kek.
>uhh acktually my crappy regular command squad took the objective and then managed to kill a handful of justaerin when the justaerin counter charged and flattened them (scoring 5 VPs)yeah, thats my point, you lose the game because of vanguard.
>b-but theres only 5 justaerin left overyeah on turn 4, when the game ends anyway
>>96116199the SoH will be camping objectives too lmao. the difference maker is the vanguard units
>>96116124Not if they're cool whip duders.
I Just read through Vulkan's rules. What the hell is this bullshit ? Did someone actually playtested this ? He looks even worse than ferrus in 2.0.
>>96116220Where there's a whip, there's a way...
>>96116199You can play around it, but its not going to be as easy as you make it sound.
Unless youre positioned right on the edge movement reacting off an objective might be tricky (especially for big tactical units which want to position so they screen the enemy away from contesting normally). You reposition only 4" for most marine units. The range for controlling or contesting an objective is 3".
>>96116214>spartans are one of the best units in the gameYou're joking right
>>96116214>spartans are one of the best units in the gamelol
>the SoH will be camping objectives too lmaoAnd losing at it, because theyre down a massive number of points because they spent them all on a justaerin bus.
>tacticals in rhinos arent expensiveTacticals in rhinos arent hard to kill either, especially with all those points you no longer have access to but the enemy does.
>1/3rd of your army in an auto-win the game unit5vp auto wins the game? lmao
>yeah on turn 4, when the game ends anywayWell at least youre realistic about your justaerin only managing to do a single thing in the game. Sure is a good use of 1/3 of your army eh?
>>96116214>spartans are one of the best units in the gamesomehow I don't believe this
>>96116214You're worrying about a perfect theoretical that won't survive the practical. Against a good opponent those Justerians will never ping vanguard due to reactions. Place one tac marine in range of the objective, score your 3+ VP, it movement reactions off when termis land within 12". The termis won't be there waiting outside or they'll get shot. You will always be able to react off the point. Then you commit to other objectives. If there's other line there place several races perfectly to react off, but outscore their line you shoot off.
>>96116224Yes exactly. Don't deepthroat the objectives so every marine that's actually scoring it is 2.99" away and you can't fail the react.
>>96116260>lose the objective because the enemy can just walk onto it and outnumber you because you just had one guy dipping his toe inWow, how clever.
>>96116252>You will always be able to react off the point.no you wont. you react move 4 inches now. tip toeing an objective will not be common
>>96116244>somehow I don't believe thisThats because theyre almost certainly not. Theyre 400pts for what is now a quite low damage output, a durable body, and a lot of transport capacity.
>>96116270It wont, but its doable if you know that abbadons party-bus is coming to town. Normally you want to try and position aggressively over the objective, to keep enemy units away and prevent them from contesting or stealing it. But vs an elite (almost certainly low model count) force that has a very telegraphed vanguard push coming? You can tiptoe.
>>96116268If we're talking about Terminators, then yes. Leave it so they don't score vanguard and line. If you're losing the point why give up extra VP?
>>96116270>Super easy way of preventing enemies from scoring VP won't happenIt absolutely will. If it's a tac slap fight then you don't need run. 4" is plenty to get off the point when you need to prevent vanguard. You're saying that you would rather leave your tac squad there, just to die to a vanguard (x) unit for no reason? You can have 10 tac marines around the diameter of the objective, and if staying means you force your opponent to commit line then stay. But if termis ina spartan show up? Move 4" away, deny vanguard because this recs weren't surviving.
>>96116311if you are tiptoeing an objective all they need to do is dump a rhino full of tacs on you and outscore due to bodies and then you are fucked anyway
>>96116243sorry retard but you lose to vanguard 4
>>96115827Removal of destroyers genuinely confused me.
They currently sell the models, but even if they're releasing them in plastic, why would they legend them? Legends implies they're going to stop selling them entirely, which is pretty odd.
Hell, even the transfer sheets have destroyer icons etc.
>>96110800god, when I watch these videos and think about 3D printing I need to barf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX2RyZLiOnA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU3m396FSW8
>>96114345why do you paint the shoulders where the the armor's shoulder plates are? The shoulders are lower and suddenly they fit
Is there a pdf of the new mechanicum stuff yet ?
>>96116526Hello James, you brown nose.
