You are given the task of making a new warcraft RPG, you can reset the timeline to any spot and continue on from there making any new lore or story you want.
How do you save warcraft?

I let the deal between blizzard and gw actually go through

Setting: WotLK-wea
Solution: thicc latinas
Ruleset: WFRP styled d100 system

>>96150295
so more goblins?

>>96150294
I meant the warcraft timeline, not real life.

>>96150334
Then I dont fucking know. Maybe make the goblin and halfling girls skimpier.

>>96150347
I don't think that'll help.

>>96150358
you'd be surprised.

>>96150287 (OP)
>Delete everything that happened after Legion >RPG starts 50 years after Sargeras fucks off
Things have been relatively peaceful, the Cataclysm is a distant memory for most, Bolvar still napping on the Frozen throne. Most of the non-immortal characters from WoW era are effectively retired. The lack of constant war means most races only loosely stick to the old Horde vs. Ally divide. Night Elves and Forsaken in particular would become more insular. For the most part, let players choose their allegiances. Return to the vanilla formula and focus on regional threats that make the world feel bigger and not cosmic god-tier bullshit. Basically, you wipe the slate clean and make WoW2.

I have no opinion on system, but you want something basic and capable of meeting the fiction.

Time wise, I would sort of Season of Discovery it.
Go back to Warcraft the RPG or Classic and drip-feed the later expansions.
Focusing more on resolving storyline’s from each expansion, skipping Warlords of Draneor and cumulating in Legion where the Day Is Saved for good.
Keep levels within limits, Outland and Northrend might be higher but they aren’t higher than Molten Core.

Lore stays at Wrath at latest. Pulling from the Warcraft RPG first. Dranei are weirdos and not an entirely different species, longer between games.

>>96150287 (OP)
Video games.

>>96150663
Return to classic is really the only choice. Take what blizz did with outland and northrend as base for those places but completely ignore the story they made. They're just setting elements.

>>96150287 (OP)
Would go back at wc3 frozen throne. Would make a system in which players are the leaders of small retinues.

>>96151575
and?

I know this is supposed to be a lore and bitching about Blizzard thread.
But it always bothered me how night elves in the rpg had this very standard + DEX, - CON. When they are actually buff and huge.
Suggestions: Make night elves males have a bonus for strength, give the girls the bonus for dexterity. For the malus... God, I fucking hate D&D.

>>96150287 (OP)
>current timeline, so customer can play all the new races and classes
>detailed setting guide for continents, pulling them out of eternal cataclysm statis and filling them with new local scale dangers
>big, overarching villain factions that can be inserted anywhere (legion, void, undead, old gods, naga, you name it)
>self contained local adventures like "stop a crazed titan keeper in Ungoro crater" (level range 10-12)
>large campaign modules like "grand multi location conspiracy of a dreadlord trying to kickstart the fifth war, travel to EK and Kalimdor and have a climactic showdown on Outland" (level range 1-20)
>deep dives into local regions and cultures, add new places and people (like old arathi empire ruins in the arathi highlands. Or in general more towns and cities in the former human hearthland than just a single one)
>scale. Scale, scale, scale. Make it big. Make it vast. Make it comic book & cheesy metal album cover cool and epic

Essentially i would pull a Pathfinder with their focus on adventure books, regional setting guides and focussed class shit like "This is the crunchy magic book, this is the martial book, this is the nature stuff book"

>>96150287 (OP)
>>96152505
if you want a bit more narrative fluff:

>Kalimdor North
In the north, the shadow council stirs again, after having kept low. New warlock cells and demons arise in the shadows, cults are formed within horde and alliance societys. Meanwhile, Satyrs are split between bringing back the emerald nightmare under a new leader (sexy female coombait saytr) and the legion remnants

>Kalimdor central
Centaurs, Harpies and Quilboars are still local dangers and new leaders arise to unite them to fuck with horde and alliance. In dustwallow march, new theramore is build and requires the players aid to establish itself. Deathwing cultists moved in at onyxias lair. The ogres are getting uppity and try to leave the horde. The southsea pirates are a constant danger, as are the naga. Desolance has a huge shadow council presence, trying to corrupt the centurs with fel

>Kalimdor south

Tanaris is pirate, sand troll and desert human fuckery, as well as goblin crime. Un Goros is elemental & primal & nature & titan fuckery. The Quiraji stir anew because of some Aquir generals left over from BFA. Uldum still has the hostile Tol Vir from BFA causing trouble

>EK North
Scarlet Crusade is back in force, filled by many former alliance soldiers fucking mad at the peace with then horde. Nobles finance them. Scourge Warlords are still a presence, the argents are trying to rebuild, the amani are still uppity, the syndicate influenced by the argus wake. New Dalaran is build in the crater. There is lots of political tension between Gilneas, Stromgarde, New Lordaeron (at southshore), Undercity, the Frostwolves, Stormpikes, Wildhammer. Quel Thalas split between horde loyalists and those who want to return to the alliance.

>Central EK
Twilight hammer and twilight drakes and Skaryn are back and a problem, corrupting ogre tribes, kobolds and Troggs. Dark Iron have a large scale ragnaros cult within their society

>>96152546
>EK south
Stormwind still struggles with corruption, Defias see new rise with people mad at peace with the horde. Duskwood still haunted, bloodsail pirates and trolls raid the southern provinces. Some new (or old) evil stirs in Karazhan, blasted land still filled with demon cultists

>South Seas
Kul Tiras still struggles with pirates, naga and old god shit, but also troll raids from zandalari spliter groups. Also internal politics and lingering drust fuckery. Pirates and trolls and Naga everywhere, Zandalar split between peacemongers and warmongers

>Pandaria
Someone trying to fuck with the Mantid again, old god fuckery, new Mogu warlord, rogue titan construct shit

>Northrend
Filled with scourge warlords, ice trolls trying to make a comeback, settlement efforts by horde and alliance, strongpoint of the scarlets, titan fuckery and Vrykul being a problem for everyone

>outland
Demons, local people, ogres, politics, world falling apart, ethereals

>>96150287 (OP)
I embezzle money for years and then leave before it is finished.

>>96150287 (OP)
>How do you save warcraft?
Actually releasing it

>you can reset the timeline to any spot and continue on from there making any new lore or story you want.
Not so important for a RPG setting. What is important is to provide the world in a state that can be used as a background for DMs to fill it with adventures. So you cant really set the timeline at a point that is too narrowly focussed. There also cant be one single overarching story, it must be vague and open enough to allow for all kind of stories. If you want a new concrete story like "Magathan Grimmtotem finally making her big play", thats the stuff for published adventure modules or plot hooks left to the DMs to flesh out

>>96150287 (OP)
Not your personal army Blizzard, but make sure you have a breastmilk meter

>>96150370
This image has never been true

Make futanari draenei canon.

>>96152721
They are

>>96152465
You don't HAVE to stick to true D&D norms even if you keep the d20 system. And you can divorce from it even more than Mutants & Masterminds did if you want, even shit like turning every single in-universe "power system" into its own complex subsystem.

>>96150287 (OP)
Really the crux of it all is having a supported game system at all. Whether or not you cast crusader strike, pyroblast or moon beam during the vanilla, wc3, wc1 or Battle for Azeroth timeline is irrelevant. Its the same spell. If anything, if i wanted to make a buck i would sell a generic players guide, a generic DM guide and then cash in extra by selling them "classic era setting book", "burning crusade era setting book", "Mists of Pandaria Setting Book" and so on. With this you can sell way more products and give each expanion book some optional flavour rules like enviromental dangers for Wrath or some Apexis bullshit for WoD or some class order hall system for the Legion book.

>>96150287 (OP)
I go all the way back to Blackthorne.

I'd move the timeline forward until Azeroth resembles modern-day Earth. I'd have all the gnome girls work office jobs in generic OL outfits. The game system would be called Gnome OL Fucker Simulator 2000.

>>96150287 (OP)
Already doing it. Post-TFT and Rexxar's campaign. Making the lore actually make sense based on WCIII alone, avoiding the current hellscape of piling retcons upon retcons.
Modifying the d6 system family to do it.

>>96153948
Keeping anything from The Mess, or just gutting the whole thing anon? I always like hearing about people's takes on the WC setting.

>>96154216
There's a number of cool concepts, or at least popular things that aren't wholly bad, that can be cannibalized.

Dark Iron Dwarves are commonly brought up in a positive light. I even think Draenei can have a place with a different name as an offshoot of Eredar. Just not as a sci-fi race that replaces the original Draenei.

Personally I'm a fan of Vrykul and the Valkyr, and the latter's involvement with Sylvanas, but with a saner context.

On the other hand, Illidan, Muradin, killed demons... they're all dead and gone for good. Everything involving the titans doesn't exist in WCIII, and I don't really want to shove it in and unhinge the setting.

>>96154559
> I even think Draenei can have a place with a different name as an offshoot of Eredar. Just not as a sci-fi race that replaces the original Draenei.
Are there really, i mean REALLY people who care about this? I have never encountered anyone who actually gave a fuck

>>96154648
That and the kael/blood elf changes are a few of the most egregious things TBC did and I've seen being talked about over and over

>>96154728
Sure, its being talked about here on /tg/ or /v/, but outside of that ive never encountered anyone who gave a fuck. And 4chan is usually the place of utterly buck broken wow haters who made it patholocial

##96153830
You'd turn them into pudgy vtubers with no real world skills and a socially approved aversion to magic with dependance on goblin grown food stuffs and an addiction to Tale of Southern Wonder Land Forsaken Men. Oh I have been away haven't / ?
Good to see you,, Cloud!<
My apologies for activating your Draeneibergers!!
>Vi ĉiam antaŭenigas la "templinion" por povi retiriĝi en la eternan pasintecon de senkonsekvenca infanaĝo! La lastan fojon, kiam ni havis ĉi tiun konversacion ĉe la tria okulnivelo, vi petis, ke la fina fantazio-sekcio de Fulptown Newgrounds estu forviŝita! Mi diris al vi, kion mi farus, se vi aperus denove!!!
>>Shìdài sēnlín zài shénshèng de chóngbài zhōng shēngzhǎng_
>>>Rocket to insanity! Space Ni, Row achtzhen<<<
>>>/mlp/

I set it during the War of the Ancients. Whole world is going to hell and it's primarily about you trying to hold your little corner of the world together.

>>96154897
War of the Ancients basically means the majority of Warcraft races/factions that people want to play don't exist yet.

>>96154949
Yep you gotta play as races native to Azeroth. Elf and some variants, Tauren, Furbolgs, Earthen, Trolls, early Humans. You could release expansions for Pandaria and Northrend. Game could cover the chaos of the War and then the insanity of the sundering.

>>96154816
No one cares about pre-WoW lore in general compared to WoW, so I don't see your point

>>96154648
I'm not sure how many people could be said to actually care about it, but for me it's kind of like oldcrons vs newcrons - both are cool, but losing one for the other sucks (even if we technically still have TFT draenei via the Broken).

>>96153830
Goblin OL >>> Gnome OL

>>96150287 (OP)
Cataclysm 2.0, but the world is actually destroyed and everything is reset to zero.
Starts off with the Alliance Rebellion. Peasants and soldiers that are sick of constantly working with races that slaughtered their families overthrow the king and start a civil war that ends the Alliance.
Without the Alliance to focus on, the fragile bonds between the different races of the Horde break down, and it collapses without any outside influence.
Some new or ancient threat shows up like it always does, but there's no more Alliance or Horde to band together, so it ravages Azeroth, causing another sundering like event.
Draenei flee to another planet. Gnomes are wiped out by Troggs and go extinct. Goblins devolve slightly. It becomes every race for themselves. Without a central power, the old noble human kingdoms regain their power and territory. The world and its people are divided. The lands between settlements are filled with monsters, warlords, bandits, and demons. The elves are restarting their empires. The Dwarves have abandoned the surface. The undead lose their minds. Orcs go feral. Trolls disappear. Tauren get bullied by centaur.
(You) play as a Arthas, who has finally rez'd at a spirit healer and is ready to rebuild Lordaeron

>>96150287 (OP)
after defeating the j'hlor, reality starts falling apart without the sigils, so the player has to meet the female personification of azeroth herself in the deadlands where they find out that an AI-like construct like j'hlor tasked with maximizing happiness and minimizing suffering went rogue and became the embodiment and nhilism and entropy. after proving yourself worthy to ms. azeroth, the old gods give you their blessing by giving you a magic spaceship, sending you to a place filled with dead worlds and you have to use the power of hope and the friends that you made along the way, defeating the villain by delivering that the existential answer to life was on azeroth all along.

>>96150287 (OP)
Reset the timeline to start of Classic, but include various regions that were only elaborated on later: Gilneas is fighting a civil war over Genn's Wall and dealing with the first outbreaks of the Curse, Arthas up in Northrend is consolidating power to launch a new invasion of the world, the Blood Elves are casting about for allies, etc. Fix all the Blizztardation and lore contradictions, hire some writers who actually care about the setting and some editors who actually care about quality. Many of the racial/minor plot hooks from Classic were actually pretty good, so keep those and use them to give GMs some easy ways to make adventures.

Change the mouthfeel of the world and art from what it became, lean more on how empty and devastated the world of Azeroth is. Lordaeron and Alterac have been obliterated, completely depopulated apart from some undead squatting on the ruins. Stormwind is in ruins, the city itself a massive refugee camp still being rebuilt from the devestation of the First War. Stromgarde has collapsed into banditry and petty warlords. Kul Tiras and Gilneas have shut themselves off from the world and the latter is about to consume itself. In Kalimdor, the Night Elves are broken race trying to build a new home. The orcs have found a home, but their numbers have dwindled from a mighty horde to a few tens of thousands, with only one tribe of tauren and trolls each as allies. This is a new Dark Age, and while there's hope and light and the worst of the Apocalypse is over (for now), things are still going to get worse before they get better.

As for systems, obviously a in-depth race/class system with plenty of gameplay implications is important. Some sort of adventuring band system like >>96151575 suggested. Move the plot forwards slowly with adventure books and new editions, taking vanilla the expansions as a rough guide (but ignoring any and all shitty Blizz writing) up through perhaps MoP. After that, go in a new direction

>>96154648
I do. I care. Akuma was a real nigga and draeeifags deserve the futa allegations for retconning him.
>>96155077
>it's kind of like oldcrons vs newcrons
It's honestly even worse, since the two concepts are completely divergent from one another and the retcon to stitch them together just makes it even worse. It'd be like if oldcrons were replaced with tau and then they retcon oldcrons to be time traveling tau from a future where Chaos won all along before shunting them off to a distant corner of the galaxy and discontinuing their range.

I guess you could liken it to the squats => votann change over the oldcrons => newcrons.

>>96154648
>Are there really, i mean REALLY people who care about this?
Yes, there were and are. Draenei were very controversial when they were first introduced. The entire thing came way out of left field and they took over the w3 draenei completely. The fact the women were super hot definitely helped smooth things over but their initial implementation was handled awfully.

>>96155976
Yeah but what if a player decided to Jailer Trance?

>>96156237
>tfw everything related to that project is gone cause it was all on a forum that 404'd
Man I wish it was archived. Looks like there was a lot of good stuff but the only thing left are those eastern kingdoms maps cause the guy who made them crossposted them to deviantart

>>96150287 (OP)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/2lf1663yv21q3/WarCraft
There were two editions of a d20/3.5e adaptation for WoW, and the second one is actually really fun if you add a bit of homebrew here and there.

>>96154559
>Everything involving the titans doesn't exist in WCIII, and I don't really want to shove it in and unhinge the setting.
Actually, the titan story is originally told in the Burning Legion history for the Warcraft 3 user manual (http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/Warcraft%20III%20Manual.pdf).
There are still a ton of retcons between Sargeras' origin in Warcraft 2/3 and the WoW story.

>>96150287 (OP)
What parts of Warcraft's lore are actually better than replacement for a TTRPG? I only really played WC3 (bit of WoW for the first couple expansions, but never past 20-ish), but the only thing that seems at all interesting in particular are Night Elves. Maybe Orcs too, at a stretch? So much of it is just "our elves are like this" (elves) or "here is lore piled on lore" (unless the players played WC3, trash).

https://davidmaynard.itch.io/throne-of-chaos

Found some rules. Bolt what you like from the original Warcraft RPG and go nuts.

>>96158687
Its personal preference and matter of taste, really. At its very basis, it doesnt really matter wheter or not you´re fighting a necromancer cult in the Kingdom of Keoland or the Kingdom of Lordaeron. There isnt a objective answer of which one is better. Maybe you like the warcraft visuals more. Maybe you think that a place Stormwind has more interesting neighbours, with trolls to the south, orcs and dark irons to the north, than Cormyr. Maybe some warcraft place or people just gives you a warm fuzzy feeling of nostalia that Solamnia and Warforged cant. Wholly depends on the individual

>>96157313
chris metzen hire this body type 2

>>96150287 (OP)
I don't even try, because Warcraft is for fags.

>>96158351
>manual
The manual is... weird. It was in part written by map designers and who knows who else on the staff, and it shows. It mentions unicorns and tries to build lore around what are clearly just gameplay elements, like reviving fallen heroes at altars. It's similar to how the tabletop books also have random parts that don't really fit.

So I don't think it's a good source for lore. The game itself is consistent and serves as the best basis imo. Anything outside it is merely secondary.

>>96159792
Yeah, but if I asked that question about a lot of fantasy settings, you could say something other than "personal preference and matter of taste."

Like, Eberron has changelings, warforged, the Last War; Elder Scrolls has its active gods and rich mythology (in the literal sense of Aedra and Daedra, not Deep Lore); Dark Souls has its world-running-down vibes; and that's just off the top of my head, in the subgenre of "trad fantasy" material (versus, say, Zelda or Mistborn or whatever).

It's fine, for the purposes of a video game, that Warcraft's world basically looks like any generic D&D setting, because it's based around caring about the characters (Arthas, Jaina, Illidan, Maiev, Thrall, Sylvanas, etc) and plot, but I'm not playing out the characters in a TTRPG, and I'm certainly not playing out the plot.

>>96150287 (OP)
Obvious answer is obvious. You set the RPG during the 5 year timeskip after Shadowlands.
>No mega big bad to conflict with WoW content meaning anything can happen
>Lots of room for adventuring opprotunities
>Most big name factions still exist as remnants for the GM to asspull as they wish
>Post Horde vs Alliance world state lets you mix and mach races easily for any character
>Smorgasboard of locations from all the previous xpac continents that are all reachable without big asspulls that you'd need for earlier date lore
Blizzard really should do this as there are no downsides. And before grognards sperg out, Horde vs Alliance was shit writing ever since Vanilla and should have stopped with AQ event.

>>96160095
Well i mean, you can say Warcraft has its factions and their evolving will-they-wont-they rivalry and as big selling point core to the IP. And they have been a forerunner for the whole "monstrous traditionally evil races can be good guys too" with the Horde. Its just so common by now that people rarely even bother bringing that up. And if changelings count, you might as well mention stuff like spacefaring magitech- cosmic force of good Draenei, warcrafts unique take of jungle/ forst/ ice/ sand trolls who arent just dumb brutes but have whole civilisations going, or stuff like their goblins arent random low level mobs but crazed hyper capitalist mad inventors.

>>96158687
At this point Warcraft has a treasure trove of unique cultures, races, creatures and locations all bound together by decades of story that connect them all. I would 100% preffer it over DnD's settings like Faerune because it gives waaay more flavor right out the gates. For example, every characters race will already tie them down to the world by where they come from, what are their relationship with their faction, how they likely view other races (a Kul Tiran and a Zandalari in one party is like a Serb and a Croat in one bar), what they know of the world from what they seen. As a GM you can pick from a whole library of enemy types and evil organizations to be the antagonists and all of them will have different goals and ways of operating just based on who they are. Meanwhile in basic fantasy settings anyone can be anyone because the world really is one big blender where you can drop a random castle in whatever field and it will work as a dungeon - it just has no flavor unless you work hard to add it.

>>96160303
>At this point Warcraft has a treasure trove of unique cultures, races, creatures and locations all bound together by decades of story that connect them all.
The issue is that most have near-zero depth as one-off expansion-fodder, whereas basically any effort digging into Faerun shows enormous volumes of lore about the particulars for quite a few. Granted, even that surface-level exposure in WoW is better than quite a lot of the monstrous humanoids even when you count Dragon Magazine articles, but you don't exactly get detailed logistical considerations on underground cities or exact street layouts complete with amenities out of Blizzard.

>As a GM you can pick from a whole library of enemy types and evil organizations to be the antagonists and all of them will have different goals and ways of operating just based on who they are.
I'll agree that it's at least easier than D&D official settings, because the limited depth of most cases doesn't matter much for disposable antagonists and most of them are downstream of something with more depth, even if only marginally.

>>96160303
I would add a strong visual identity on top of that. I have no fucking idea how the average soldier on the various kingdoms in Toril, Greyhawk or Ebberon even look like. Warcraft on the other hand has very distinct and recognizable identities for its factions.

>>96158687
Seemingly eternal human and elven kingdoms and magic cities which bested the uncivilized orcs, brought to the threat of extinction from a unified undead and demon host. So much so that the remnants had to resort to consorting with the demons, being subjected to the undead if not reanimated themselves, become radical zealots, or rely on the same orcs they thought were inferior.

In Kalimdor you have a various mix of tribal societies: the shamanistic, warmongering orcs struggling to find a new existence and leave behind the old, the jungle islander trolls escaping an apocalyptic event of their own, and the nomadic, land-revering tauren under onslaught from savage raiders. And of course there's the night elves who had to renounce their magical splendor and extravagance and live as moon-worshiping forest dwellers. And after these cultures had to come together, what's left is a land of ancient ruins and mysteries, forests scorched by the elves' age-old enemies and new corruption, and their past coming literally crawling out of the depths.

To round it all out, there's a plethora of independent factions, old feuds, dissention in both the undead and demon ranks, and the prospect of war between these two vast, unholy forces.

>>96150287 (OP)
Legitimately, start with Dragonflight.
>Rough truce era; can utilize both mixed-faction parties and 'PVP' parties
>Larger variety of races/backgrounds available, as well as larger location variety
>Can utilize pretty much any villain faction remnants to work as the bad guys. Legion remnants? Scourge remnants? Iron Horde remnants? All on the table.
Despite the shit in BFA and SL, DF actually does offer a proper starting point for an RPG party. And bad as it is to say, you can always pull in the Bronze Flight to let the party get involved in any of the big historical fights, as that precedent has been long set.

>>96150287 (OP)
I go back to the end of Warcraft 3.

That's it. I saved it.
I preferred WC2, but WC3 was OK.
It didn't go to shit until TFT was used completely as a set-up for WoW, and even then TFT had some cool aspects to it, like the Blood Elves.

>>96160429
>Start with Dragonflight
Yes and no, as I said here >>96160273. Starting 5 years BEFORE DF is best as it guarantees no tripping on WoW's toes, while basically achieving the same as Dragonflight. An added bonus is that Blizzard can use this as a way to fill in the timegap and even make some official campaigns like a war against the Scourge that happened off-screen.

>>96160273
>Obvious answer is obvious. You set the RPG during the 5 year timeskip after Shadowlands.
This is not obvious and pretty stupid. Keeping shadowlands as canon is a bad idea.

>>96163803
its really irrelevant and there is next to no reason to even refer to the shadowlands or make them relevant in any way, shape or form, unless you actually go out of your way to do so.

I go back to The Burning Crusade and let the pandaren make it as the Alliance race, removing the bullshit sci-fi elements from the draenei and the Burning Legion.
Alternatively, I go back to the end of MoP and let the Mongrel Horde ending come to fruition.

>>96164041
>its really irrelevant and there is next to no reason to even refer to the shadowlands or make them relevant in any way, shape or form
Sounds like setting it after shadowlands is making it relevant in some way, shape or form.

>>96164041
The fact that you can just go through a stable portal to the afterlife and talk to dead people has massive consequences on the setting and story telling. That fact you can do that, and then take the same portal to the world of the living is even worse. Simply not mentioning this doesn't make it go away.

Made for doggy style

>>96164148
>>96164213
>Simply not mentioning this doesn't make it go away.
It does tho. Blizzard does it that way in Dragonflight and TWW and every single roleplayer i know off does so too for the last ~ 5 years

>>96152698
Yeah goblinfaggotry is just a push of "safe horny" to pretend subversively ugly women are hot

>>96164400
Naw, they can try to run but everyone still remembers the shitshow that was shadowlands

>>96164429
Bottom image is based, tho. Mirko, Momo, and Mina are best girls. Oinkchako is for fags with the most plebian taste.

Durotaur should be irrigated by the southfury and turned into the hordes bread basket.

>>96167804
Wouldn't that basically turn the Barrens into an a desert?

>>96164429
>"safe horny"
Safe-suicide yourself, man, think Canada and Switzerland offer an option

>>96164429
Not even, it's just all downstream of Midna. Not a single person got horny for WoW goblins until they were drawn egregiously off model

>>96150287 (OP)
Everything I don't like from Warcraft started in W3 but W3 is also where Warcraft really became Warcraft. The honorablu orc samurais, dumb pandas and gay Scourge are too much part of Warcraft to have it any other way. If I want simple human knights vs evil orc demons I'd just make my own setting I wouldn't take Warcraft. Which is what I've done.

>>96150287 (OP)
You're asking the impossible. Warcraft franchise died the moment they made sylvanas the poster girl boss bitch. Also magical wheelchairs, also gay parade and helping gay npc quest

>>96170357
>helping gay npc quest
This is so fucking annoying. I tried out the dragon expansion when they had a free weekend. One of the first quests it makes you do is count fish for a gay dragon couple. Really made me feel like a great fantasy hero.

>>96170357
I don't know anon by your standards it seems the setting was fine for over a decade. Those things are very recent.

>>96170445
Anon, Sylvannas became warchief since Legion, that was 2016. She has been one of the stories main focus since then up until shadowlands. Three expansions worth of Sylvanna's girlbossing

>>96170491
That's yesterday to my boomer ass and still over a decade after WC3

>>96170357
>TTRPG
>DM and player have full narrative control about what to include in their game and what not
>muh wheelchair and gay parade npcs
Holy mother of nogame

>>96168313
>Not even, it's just all downstream of Midna. Not a single person got horny for WoW goblins until they were drawn egregiously off model
The fucking irony.

>>96164078
>removing scifi elements
Actually souless. The fact that Warcraft isn't your grandpa's basic fantasy and that it is ready to do its own thing is its main appeal.

>>96168025
No? The southfury doesn't lead into the barrens, it runs out to the sea from durotaur

>>96171033
>mixing fantasy with sci-fi is unique
Hows it feel to be woken up from cryogenesis?

>>96171222
The particular breakdown of actively juxtaposing at least two takes on Mad Science with the Goblins and Gnomes, "Sufficiently Advanced Technology" with a lot of the Titan stuff and some of the Gnome's work, and "Sufficiently Analyzed Magic" with the Legion and assorted Arcane magitech (including other Titan stuff) is pretty unusual. If only because few settings get the volume of content to do a kitchen sink of such magnitude even as little justice as WoW manages.

>>96170442
Plus the gay human couple that teach you about work order. Plus the gay centaur couple that you have to play wedding planner for. And all three of those relationships are portrayed as this saccharine sweet, lovey-dovey shit. It's not just that there were gay couples, it's how performative it all was. "Look! we have the gays now!"

Skub as it is, I've been idly tinkering at a WC hack for MorkBorg for the past month or so, just because its a quick system to hack for and I've not done homebrew in about a decade at this point.

Simple shit- two Meta-factions, four races apiece, four stats, etc.
>Alliance: Human, (Thalassian) Elf, Dwarf, Gnome
>Horde: Orc, Troll, Tauren, Goblin.
You might ask why I've dropped Nelf, Forsaken, Draenei, Worgen- so I can quietly hand out racial stats without worrying about stepping on toes until I feel ready to tackle that shit. Tentative race-stat 'alignment':
>Stamina: Human, Orc
>Strength: Dwarf, Tauren
>Agility: Elf, Troll
>Intellect: Goblin, Gnome
As I said, just idle tinkering done on a system I've not actually worked on before.
>>96171299
Don't forget the Horde rep for the Dracthyr is genderfluid.

>>96150287 (OP)

I guess I'm a 3.5aboo so I'd just do that again (more or less), but timeline-wise I'd include enough material to frame something like OG Warcraft 1 up through about Legion so you can run the long-term mega-campaign if you want.

>>96171033
>removing scifi elements
>Actually souless. The fact that Warcraft isn't your grandpa's basic fantasy
The sci fi stuff just makes it something like a worse Might & Magic

>>96171406
I don't see why you'd keep the two faction system. It's such a drag. How more dynamic factions.

>>96171848
Less directly keeping them, and more just using them to cleanly organise the baseline while I figure out what direction I'm actually going in.

>>96171848
I don't intend to keep them in the long run, it's more I'm using them at the moment to keep things neatly organised while I'm getting my feet under me.

>>96172234
>>96172207
Huh. I guess the post I made without knowing my broadband wasn't working- the first one -went through somehow.

>>96170269
>The honorablu orc samurais, dumb pandas and gay Scourge are too much part of Warcraft to have it any other way
The honorable orcs are just one faction. You still have the demon-worshipping Blackrock orcs. Pandaren are a joke race.
I don't get the Scourge hatred. Is there something particularly wrong with them?
>If I want simple human knights vs evil orc demons
You still have that until TBC or so, when the theme clearly becomes humans and orcs allying against greater evils. Ironically, Cata and MoP brought orcs v. humans back.

>>96150287 (OP)
I make a exact 4e clone with the names of abilities all changed to match shit in WoW.

>>96173538
I actually liked the Scourge itself until Shadowlands but my problem with it is how weak it was and that it was never a real threat.

In W3 Illidan breaks the Frozen Throne so Arthas has to abandon his conquest to fuse with the Lich King, then Sylvanas makes a joke out of his remaining forces and takes back Lordaeron. In WoW the Scourge is only present in two regions and the Lich King sits in Northrend doing nothing until WotLK where he gets raiding and obliterated without ever doing anything.

>>96173538
>Pandaren are a joke race.
It's really baffling to me that people still say this. Like there was never any reason to say this in the first place but especially after pandaria was one of the best expansions this should be dead and buried. No dev ever said pandas were a joke race, people just made that up.

>>96171033
I still don't understand how it works. How are the dwarves/gnomes fielding tanks and giant mecha and bombers and shit, and the orcs are just using big axes and stuff, but they fight as peers? Why don't the orcs copy the mecha designs? Can nobody make gunpowder but dwarves?

>>96174794
They say it because Chen Stormstout was just a one-off WC3 hero Sam Didier made for shits and giggles.

>>96176249
Because its a rule of cool kitchen sink that works on comic book fantasy logic, not on cause and effect. Orcs have loincloth and axe because its cool and their vibe, human have sword and armor and shield because they are a medieval fantasy realm, gnomes have crazy technomagic shit because its a tinker race.

>Can nobody make gunpowder but dwarves?
Gilneas and Kul Tiras would like to have a word with you

>>96176249
>Why don't the orcs copy the mecha designs?
They have Goblins to compete on tech terms "as needed" and Tauren were supposed to be such huge slabs of beef as to smash them anyways before MMO race balance kicked in.