Twin Heavy Cannon Edition
>Previous thread:>>96263049Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books Scanned:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>New Edition upon us to a great wailing and gnashing of teethhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
ใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
>Thread Question:Do you use super heavies in your games?
>>96268567 (OP)>Do you use super heavies in your games?Itching to pull the trigger on bringing my Falchion but my opponent this week is only bringing a spartan and come contemptors...
>>96268567 (OP)Plastic falchion when?
>>96268567 (OP)>tqYes, generally my imperial knight. It tends to just act as a mediocre bullet sponge.
Is there Any reason to take a Mastodon in 3.0? One of the NL Termie squads can go up to like 20 dudes right?
Where plastic Breachers?
Where MK2 assault squads?
I need both.
>>96268640I wanna fight one so bad. Hammer and Anvil, three bunker lines and VP for each breach, for destroying the mastadon, and just killin'
>>96268567 (OP)>Do you use super heavies in your games?The only super-heavy in our games are the players haha.
>thunder hammer is meta
>but power fist is more aesthetic
feeling so complicated . . .
>>96268730>pf is more aestheticWrong
>>96268567 (OP)I would love to run the superheavy-grade Fortifications, since I like big dumb turrets more when they're not on tracks, but sadly they have sucked for two and a bit editions. Back in 1e you could man a macro-cannon with a Reductor priest and give it +tons on the Vehicle Damage table, but nothing since then and the 3e ones are pretty comically bad unless I'm missing something. One BS3 S12 AP2 D4 blast on an immobile land raider chassis for 400pts is not a lot.
>>96268730It's actually a lot more nuanced this time around. Hammer is better for fighting fisters, while fist is better for fighting non-fisters
>like to make cool characters with different weapons and gear
>prefer to play wysiwyg
thanks for taking all the options away james
>>96268779We literally just got the humongous turret with Kustom Force Field from Saturnine
>>96268791I think anon means something akin to the aquila strongpoint
>>96268567 (OP)when you see it...
also where are my twin volcano cannons, like in the fluff, james????
I was there the day Horus slew The Emperor
>>96268138>>96268188I don't think I've seen a chainfist shill ever acknowledge their wielders giving up 50%โ33% of their attacks to be able to melee a specific type of tank. Even dreads are better engaged by actual power fists instead
How did the legion forges work prior to a legion recovering their primarch? Did they have a forge on Terra separate from the various manufacturers (that, according to 3.0 favored the imperial fists)
>>96268849Yeah. The legions still had leaders before meeting their Primarch, and they were supplied tgrough the same channels as every other Imperium force, aside from the obvious oitliers like AL
>>96268640I remember playing a 40k game where the mission was that I had to take as many units possible to the evacuation line away from the map, amidst a rain of meteors.
Sounds like a mission made specifically for the Mastodon. Which is weird because that was 8E, where the Mastodon was barely acknowledged as Legends
>>96268807Yeah, that or the Primus Redoubt, which has the world's smallest turbolaser this edition, D4 and no armourbane to the Warhound's armourbane D6. Costs the same as a Cerberus, which is better in every way, shoots three times as fast and can actually move.
I suppose it splats Custodes decently well, but that's about it. The strongpoint's macro-cannon is a massive blast with Stun, but massive scatter and no AP or Breaching, so it mostly just annoys things and chips vehicles.
>>96268889So there would be ghost legion forged mark 1, just an extremely small amount of it
>>96268833How do I justify taking Tartaros as AL? They look sick in their livery
I have a second saturnine ready to paint. I'm gonna look at some retro color schemes maybe.
>>96268921Take a siege squad, easy.
>>96268928How many Tartaros kits would I actually need to own for outfitting a full squad with heavy guns?
>>96268904I don't think the legions ever used Mk1, that was the Thunder Warrior's thing. Besides, I don't think all the Legions were around back then.
>>96268933One and some bits/prints/recasts
>>96268952the new rule book talks about the legions using mark 1 breifly, presumably because terran made mark 2 was in short supply
>>96268925do you have any necromunda ambots to compare size
>>96268921Tartaros are the latest tech. That's 100% an Alpha Legion thing
My copium is that since they seem to be willing to put whacky shit like all heavy weapon tartaros in legacy they go whole hog with shattered legions / blackshields. It would be cool to see a deathwatch style mixed unit faction (without mixed armour saves, at least).
>>96268989if horus wasn't a greedy bastard upgraded Cataphractii (the serpent scales) would have been, although it could have ended up like volkite where theres never enough to outfit the legions
Finished basing the possessed. Post models!
To those who remember the DG vs AL battle report from a few threads back, I showed the thread to my buddy and it has motivated him to work much harder on finishing and painting his army. Rest easy knowing your bullying will have a positive impact on the world (my games)
>>96269047...if it is the Grave Warden vs AL Contemptor, wew that's some threads ago
>>96268933You could probably make your own plasma blasters or autocannons with the right bits. Hell jus some auticannons hung under the arm would work.
>>96269006Not my model but my 14 year old brother painted up his first model (a loken proxy)
Obviously not particularly accurate color wise but I'm just happy I can share my hobby with him :)
>>96269058No, the recent one with the scorpion.
>>96268986NTA, but I can tell you ambots are much smaller than even boxnaughts
>>96269005Thst was already the case with Tartaros
>>962691031.0 made tartaros and catphractii seem like concurrent devolpments, while the serpent scales was made a tad bit after
>>96269121I thought the Serpent Scales were just Horus' bespoke pimp suit that kept getting upgrades, not a mass production model
>>96269072Hey, it was ME who made that comment about them seeming to have stopped half way through each model! For context in two weeks time I've painted up 40 DG tacticals of my own so it stuck out to me. I'm glad he's been encouraged.
Posted this last thread but pic related, also posting for
>>96269006 's sake.
>>96269144its a "first of its kind prototype" according to 1.0, Horus actually has several suits of seemingly identical armor.
>>96268730Just force a status effect and those thunder hammers now hit at the same time as the power fists.
>>96268921Why would you need justification for taking tartaros? They're cool models and a good unit too, standard or as command squad.
>>96268991Veterans support squads with all disintegrator blasters or heavy disintegrators are in legacies too, despite those weapons never having existed before 3.0
Won't surprise me if we're gonna see all kinds of wacky wargear possibilities in the future. It's also why I think 3.0 could very well last for more than three years, it's set up in such a way that they could keep expanding it for the coming ten years easily.
>>96269163Maybe by "its kind" it means Terminator armror in general? Every Primarch had custom armor, and most of them probably had multiple suits in case one got damaged
Oh my skull, tell me, to betray or not to betray?
>>96268788But you still can? Centurions and Praetors still got pretty much all their options, except for sniper rifles (which was dumb anyway)
Sure, certain consuls lost options, but now that Centurions are actually useful and consuls are more niche you don't want as many consuls any more. And then there's that master of descent from the journal that still does get all the options.
There's still so mush you can do, yet you choose to only focus on on the negatives. You'll never have models, play the game, or have a painted army with that attitude.
>>96269184It doesn't really matter what the designers can or want to do it's all going to go to shit anyway, either because of clueless designers who don't even play their own game, rushed deadlines, or corporate interference
>>96268779>>96268897I have a primus redoubt. Even when it was actually semi usable in 1e, it suffers from having a terrible fire arc if you actually use it as a realm of battle tile as intended.
It's great terrain tho.
>>96269174Some legions need justification to use Tartaros. Death Guard would need it. You never question Deathshroud being in tartaros, despite Cataphractii being more in line with their unhurried toughness theme.
>Well they have to be fast to keep up with MortarionEvery "explanation" for it ends up feeling like an excuse, out of place
>>96269244>>96268897I am of the belief that forts work best when they are free pieces of scenery, up for anyone to control.
Two Primus redoubts, powerful but away from the action. A Void generator in the middle of the map. A set of aegis lines serving more as an obstacle than as protection.
Use everything, pay for nothing, and have all the fun.
>>96269219Dawg you canโt even give the champion anything but a paragon blade and one of two shooting weapons. Itโs embarrassing really
>>96269251All legions had all wargear and equipment, and used all of it.
Just because they didn't favour one particular thing doesn't mean they never used it.
If you don't want to use a certain pattern of armour because you think it doesn't really suit them thematically and aesthetically that's totally fine, but that doesn't mean other people need to come up with a justification for it.
>>96269189Yeah each primarch had a massive armory, looking at you lion. But Horus had a completely different suit of terminator armor at the begining of horus rising than the serpent scales. So presumably it was meant to be an upgrade
>>96269262>Just because they didn't favour one particular thing doesn't mean they never used it.Woah. Either read again or I need to emphasize what I said.
I didn't say they can't use it. I said that, *because* it's uncommon, now you gotta explain why they're using it.
Death Guard can use Assault squads. They usually don't. You want to use them. Justify your decision to the board. Use reasons other than "I wanted to" or "because cool"; those are not only assumed, but expected
>>96268963>>96269060I'll look into it, a pity that Tortuga doesn't seem to do exclusively heavy Terminator guns either. Don't know anyone here with a resin printer, I'll probably nab one at some point, not sure if I'd wanna do a plastic/print segregation with different legion projects at this point
Why bring a Delegatus when a Praetor is mere +20 pts? He's basically just an extra Apex, right? That's it
>>96269307Deny your opponent the Slay the Warlord objective.
>>96269261>Champions are locked to Paragon BladesI know they can be upped to WS7 but I'm going to say it - I like hammer better than paragon blades
>>96269318You could use this data
>>96269318>Additionally, a Model with this Special Rule counts as being a High Command Choice for the purposes of any version of the Slay the Warlord (X) Secondary ObjectiveC'mon anon please, read.
>>96269307>just an extra apexThat's his whole purpose. If you want 2 apex detachments.
>>96269326/hhg/ is never gonna outgrow the thunder hammer addiction is it
Tiny demi company more or less done
>>96269343Idk how a fist could compete with the faster-but-still-strong-enough Hammer
>>96269349I want anon to have a lot of fun games
>>96269326Depending on legion it feels varying levels of appropriate. But mechanically a higher ws model benefits more from hammers and lower ws models do better within paragon. Though a champion probably still beats most ws5 consuls even with a paragon blade.
What are the winners and losers in terms of units AL can steal after the Legacy PDF? Also does the Banestrike Combi/ Power Daggers/ Venom Sphere options work on those units or did I miss understand the rule?
>>96269354>>96269343Fuck it. Paragons exist, they're bound to have a niche RIGHT?
>>96269343I have an excuse I play sallies.
>>96269219>Sure, certain consuls lost optionsAll consuls lost options
>>96269381Having played a few games I prefer the paragon blade. Being able to go first is quite the advantage, and critical hits are real scary. Hammer relies too much on being able to pass your invulnerable saves.
>>96269387>Also does the Banestrike Combi/ Power Daggers/ Venom Sphere options work on those units or did I miss understand the rule?They should, as LA (whatever) gets replaced with LA (XXth)
>>96269387Not much changed really. Justaerin, firedrakes and such are still rock solid. Mor Deythan are excellent snipers. Rampagers are no longer the rending 4+ glass cannons, but they do have 5 attacks each with falax blades, they're MEQ lawnmowers now.
>>96269401Wargmonger and delegatus didn't. The primus medicae actually gained options, they weren't allowed things like chainfists before.
>finished the falchion right in time for the falchion edition
it was meant to be
>>96269497>Wargmonger and delegatus didn't.I missed the part where they can have nemesis bolters. Or bolter+pistol+chainsword.
>>96269544NTA, I'm fine with consuls losing sniper rifles. It felt out of the way. I would've wanted them to have the option to swap a bolter for a Heavy Bolter, but even that seems like it doesn't fit. Idk not everyone's Davian Thule. Even Thule is no longer Thule.
>>96269574>I'm fine with consuls losing sniper rifles. It felt out of the way.Very curious how so many people just happen to keep saying this and not commenting on the other boxlock options. Let me guess, "it makes centurions feel special" and "it differentiates consuls"?
>>96269599If you let me take a Thunder Hammer on a champion, I will take it 5 out of 5 times. I will never not take a hammer.
Except on Siege Breakers, ironically. I feel they could use something else idk. But I also wish they could take a Heavy weapon and were combined with the Armistos. Guess I want silly stuff :(
>>96269265Niggas write stuff like this but shit and piss if I want to buy the plastic miniature to use in Horus Heresy.
I'm so tired, bros.
Tired of being jerked around by the game company responsible for many of the products that I've enjoyed for so many years. I'm tired of the removal of miniatures (or replacement with inferior ones), the ever-increasing prices, the catering to the lowest common denominator and the shrimplification of the game systems. I'm tired of them not listening to any feedback whatsoever, and of their growing younger fanbase that seems to devour everything they put out and dismissing even the mildest of criticisms.
>>96268567 (OP)HH 3.0 is saved now and all is forgiven now right?
>>96269672yep sucks, enshittification comes to the hobby- best thing you can do is figure out what will be the most fun for (you) and (your) friends to do
>>96269672Im so tired of shitposters who never played a game or bought a model doomposting about something they never touched.
>>96268933One, they'll just need to carry a mix of weapons. The kit comes with two autocannons, two heavy flamers, two plasma blasters, and two volkite chargers.
>>96269629I'm honestly not convinced there is a good solution for character weapon options in 30k. Character vs character is going to be the most important niche, and people will do the math on what option performs best. It's hard to put a price on your character having a leg up. Salamanders are a good example of this, you pay 67%/100% more for a weapon but on characters it's worth it every time. You could restrict options like GW does but that's kinda boring. But if you don't you end up with a sea of thunder hammers anyways. Other game systems have the fortune of not having essentially all characters having 2+ saves, a fixed armour value, and a small wargear pool.
>>96269805Depends on if you can understand the value of having higher mobility or not. But with +2 to movement and Rhino rush being back WS can have their entire army be in the enemy deployment zone turn 1 and able to charge.
>you can run 3 archmagos on abeyant if you want to
>myrmidax ones are t7 w7 2+/4++/5++ starting at 150 points
>can give themselves ws6 / bs7 and get a gambit to blast you in the head with a meltagun before any attacks happen
These seem exceptionally annoying
>>96268786>while fist is better for fighting non-fisters??? What exactly is it you think S8 is doing better than S7 against anything that isn't a Dreadnaught?
Like, explain this to me, in the Terminator CCW's That Matter Triangle, what is the Fists actual purpose now?
>Hammer for TEQ>Chainfist for Vehicles>Fist ???
>>96269909>The Only Things That Terminators Fight Is Other TerminatorsPeople really do never change in here huh.
>>96269847>>myrmidax ones are t7 w7 2+/4++/5++ starting at 150 pointsThis is Primarch-tier power
>>can give themselves ws6 / bs7 and get a gambit to blast you in the head with a meltagun before any attacks happenWatch out. Malagra can instead add their Battlesmith to some characteristic. They could become i7 if they wanted
>>96269412>>96269443Thanks anons appreciate it
>>96269909Vehicles fall in the category of "non-fisters". A fist is equivalent to a TH agains infantry with a higher Initiiative; and it's better against targets with an AV or Toughness 6/7/8/9.
>>96269926>>96269909There's WS4 Heavy Assault termies and Elite (& Retinue) WS5 Termies, but termies of a kind may engage:
1. Troops (power weapon)
2. VEQ (TH)
3. TEQ (TH)
4. eTEQ (TH)
5. Dreads (Fist)
5. Rear AV10-11 vehicles (TH / Fist)
6. AV13-14 vehicles (Chainfist)
Chainfists are niche weapons. Power weapons too, but regular infantry is common enough, albeit a bit of a waste to use a Termie on, as troops die to many things outside termies.
Fist targets are somewhat rare. Meanwhile, hammers are good against 2W infantry, which may not be as common as troops, but there will be at least one on the field, and they are valuable pieces in the enemy plan.
>>96269890You painted the Mechanicum symbol backwards you goof.
>>96269966While we're in the topic of weapon choices, when would you say Claws are the pick? Obviously their intended target is t3/4 sv 3+ targets, but they're excepcitionally good at the role. Do you take them in a couple of your termies per squad just in case? Do you save them for lighter squads like assaults/despoilers/etc who can pick what they charge into better? Or does that lack of engagement choice make it more important in Termies because you're more likely to get caught out by said suboptimal targets? Is it ever a good idea to give it to models that can challenge? 90% of the time you want AP2 for that instead
>>96269966Chainfists having 3 damage also makes them better against 3 wound models, like saturnine terminators.
>>96269976Lightning claws are like chainfists, you put them on two terminators to turn the unit into a swiss army knife. Of you build a full unit of lightning claw terminators to turn 20 man blobs into a fine red mist. Sometimes it's about sending a message.
>>96269966>>96269958I do like how Chainfists are S10 (11 if Bangles) which makes them pretty decent against AV14. Problem is you need 4 or 5 of them to reliable take down a Land Raider or Spartan in a single round.
>>96269987The combination of shred and breaching probably makes for better than expected results against hard targets anyways. Actually, does new shred work against targets with an AV?
>>96269672I don't know another game system that has so consistently failed to deliver on its promise like heresy has. There's been more reasons not to play it than to play it goig back to its inception from prohibitive costs, janky rules, army restrictions and imbalance to literal unavailability of units.
>>96269987...but they don't though? They do 2 with Shred 6+.
>>96269992No, shred is on wound rolls only, so no effect against vehicles.
does putting a command unit into a non prime command slot unlock an aux detachment, or does it have to be a prime slot?
>>96270005Doesn't have to be a prime slot, any command slot will do.
>>96268640>Is there Any reason to take a Mastodon in 3.0So I can step on it.
>>96270005They unlock one regardless of prime status, the intention is to have 1 HQ per detachment
>>96270015what do the loudspeakers on the shoulders do?
>>96268567 (OP)>https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tacticsdoesn't work
>>96270023Those are vents.
>>96270030Normally I'm not one to question the practicality of 40k designs, but placing vents on the front in your most armored section feels a tad stupid
>>96270037There exist even more questionable design choices for real life combat vehicles. Ever seen the mortality rate of Russian test pilots?
>>96269833yeah, only that would require you to play infantry as White Scar.
>>96270081White Scars have been practitioners of the fabled Rhino Rush tactic in their lore since forever anon, stop being a secondary.
>>96269890Waiting on a malcador laser destroyer to continue my riveted Falchion
Harvest time has ended and I am back friends. Many models aquired at the store, as some stuff seems to be more popular then other. I can make two full 4 pices artilery beons right now, and maybe I will be able to make more. The models are cool, but curse those cloaks and the big shoulder pads on the big guys, you can not make and paint them in separate parts, because if you miss align something the whole thing does not come as one.
But anyway good to be back, and can't wait for new models .
Here is my company champion painted. got like 7 or 8 of those dudes. much smaller then the old pretors sadly. still cool.
>>96270089having a bike only White Scar army is being a secondary. What is next , plasma and terminators in DA, powerfists in IF ? are Melee focused WE being a secondary too?
>>96270107Yes. Legions having a preference for one thing does not mean they only do that one thing. But I see such nuance is beyond your room temperature IQ.
>>96270029Anon fucked up and put a 'u' inside the .org part.
>>96270096Keep us posted anon, it's a cool model
Got a 1000 point starter slow grow game. 1000 points is horrible to squeeze models in in 3.0.
>>96270167Well yeah, the game is designed around 3K. don't expect to get more than a praetor and a couple tac squads in there
>>96270167>Four squads of 20 tactical marines>Logistical benefit for another 20 man tactical squadThat's a 100 models, still not enough for you?
>>96269682Sorta yea. The legacies are quite good, introduce some really fun generic units and destroyers are really good even if they really should have been in the libers.
Some overtuned/undertuned units in there (lol locutarus, 2A jump vets) but the rules seem pretty fun and nothing like last ed fulmentarus in there.
>>96269966power weapons/claws do fine into VEQ because they go before the thunder hammers the VEQ are wielding (or will be wielding if they are to threaten terminators). Twin claws has a solid chance to cripple the enemy before they get to swing.
>>96270115yeah, but bikes being shit for WS is like making demons shit for WB or making magic bad for 1ksons.
If one were to take a unit of morlocks, any idea what would be the best way to run them?
With EW1 and WS5 they seem like a really solid add, but no hammers makes me think maybe itโs not ideal to use them as a deathstar (tho fists would work just fine, EW on them mogs every melee unit that doesnโt have it)
Is their worth in keeping them relatively cheap with axes/sprinkled graviton as a general-use killer, or do I have to commit to pure brawl
I liek terminators, what's the more reasonable legion to go for?
Also what's in the Saturnine Command Squad, do we know?
>>96269682Not forgiven, but their remediation has been accepted. The legacies document brought back customisation (even new units) that really is the heart of the Horus Heresy. The community hopefully has realised that the game is dependent upon them, and that they can collectively petition for changes
>>96270265could go all grav, whats a graviton shredder do these days anyway?
>>96270015>Claims to not support GW in any form>Still gives their game and aesthetic free advertisingPrintcucks truly are the most raped fsction
>>96270265The artificer axes are not to be slept on. Theyre basically terranic greatswords vs other terminators. So I would say a mix of that and fists, lots of grav for the guns.
Something like 3 axe 2 fists should be relatively affordable and generally good imo.
>>96270268Plenty of legions have good terminators. Sallies, IW, DA, SOH and weirdly enough NL all have a fair few things going for them in that department. If you like shooty terminators thousand sons corvidae siege termies are a war crime unit.
>>96270277Basically a graviton gun that exchanges blast for 2 regular shots, which is solid but only the sarge can take it
Doing the math they do still do pretty well against equal points of most WS5 termies even without hammers, and theyโre only 10pts more for fists over axes for a lot more flexibility
I think all fists and sprinkle grav on sarge + maybe 2 more for cheeky pinning is the way to go
>>96270268>Also what's in the Saturnine Command Squad, do we know?We do not as they are not out yet. However my assumption? WS5 saturnines, 3A each, come with fist+axe base, can swap either for the hammer like the praetor. Probably around 80ppm.
>>96270268>what legionLiterally any of them. I think Word Bearers are the only legion without a special termie squad between liber and legacy.
>saturnine command squadProbably termies with +1a and ws, that can take axes and maybe hammer. They likely won't have a unique box.
>>96270107Yes, someone who tried to run a power fist only army for IF is an idiot, someone who has no ranged weapons in his WE is also a moron.
The legions have themes and specializations, they are not one note. White scars do like bikes, but they are not the "bike" legion as much as the "rapid assault" legion, they run things other than bikes (like marines in transports). They are not antithetical to infantry, nor should they be expected to be uniquely capable of going without it.
Bikes are good, they have very high damage output and mobility, bikes require other units to hold ground for them. So either SA (with the white scars one being uniquely good at holding ground) or infantry of their own.
>>96270348>They likely won't have a unique box.We basically know they wont, theyre a conversion they decided to make official.
What would even happen if I ordered one of these mispriced items?
>>96270268Sons of Horus are likely your answer; they get to volley shot at full BS and since terminators have implaceable advance it means SoH termie's can absolutely vomit out accurate bolter shots while they charge into their fights.
>>96270350that is such a bullshit thing to say. Every WS, given the option would want to be on a bike. It is like asking a Tatar, if he would want to be infantry or mounted. The spirit of WS is to be on a bike, and to make the spirit shit (not weaker, but outright bad way to play) should not be done. Also telling WS players that in order to play WS they have to buy another book and play a different faction is just insulting. Do 1ksons players have to run Ad Mecha or Auxilia to have fun using magic? And your not going to tell me that magic isn't core of 1ksons, the same way mounted combat isn't essential to White Scars. And by the way driving in a Lada, GAZ or WAZ to heard your flock or to hunt, is not the same as to do it from a horse.
>>96270383Lots of legions have advantages for terminators. EC, WE and NL have the advantage of being better in combat (situationally), SW help theirs setup and close the gap (which terminators can really struggle with). Sallies and IH are just even tougher than normal terminators. Thousand sons give them magic.
>>96270381I really don't understand why GW sells the big dread with just 2 weapons, different ones on top of that. if they are so keen on selling upgrade boxes, then do it, but put 2 of the same guns in the dread and upgrade box. Don't make me buy 2 dreads and 2 upgrade packs just to have one dreadnought.
>>96270401>Don't make me buy 2 dreads and 2 upgrade packs just to have one dreadnoughtLol. Lmao
If this is how the Imperial Army is officially depicted, what's the problem with using Imperial Guard miniatures to represent them?
Which legion has the best tac squads in 3.0?
>>96270391>Every WS, given the option would want to be on a bikeIn the same way that every marine, given the option, would use a paragon blade. And yet the white scars have infantry, lots of it. They were never the "only bikes" legion. They have always had and will always have infantry, heavy support, heavy tanks, terminators, dreadnoughts and everything else. Because legions are not a stereotype. Every world eater isnt running around with a chainaxe like a retard, every dark angel doesent use a plasma gun in terminator armor, every ravenguard isnt a night fury and every night lord isnt a raptor.
>The spirit of WS isMechanized shock assaults. Being fast. Bikes just happen to be one of the easiest ways to do that.
>Also telling WS players that in order to play WS they have to buy another bookYou dont need SA to PLAY white scars. You want SA if you "need" your white scars to be a flanderized hells angels gang and nothing else, in the same way you need demons (using the demon codex) if your WB are nothing but "summoning dudes: the army"
>>96270417`Space wolves, because grey slayers are fucking nuts.
>>96270391Yeah and if I had my choice for fun Iโd be at home or out having a beer, and I do when itโs the right time, but I also gotta go to work and do whatโs necessary
Same deal, sure every WS would prefer to ride a bike, but you obviously gotta have guys not on bikes to secure objectives, get air verticality, use heavy weapons, tanks, etc
They may have their preferred thing but theyโre all elite soldiers that recognize the necessity of doing whatโs most effective for the mission- if thatโs bikes all the merrier, if thereโs free choice then lean to bikes, but the solution to every problem is not more bike, so they donโt use more bike every time
This has nothing to do with if 3.0 rules are bad, but purely off lore/reason they absolutely wouldnt just go โhaha hehe I like bikeee yay me ride bikeeee woohooโ
>>96270417IF hit on 2+. IH are much harder to kill. IW can make them expendable. AL get their sneaky bullshit.
>>96270413Imperial Army aren't in the game, only the elite Solar Auxilia and the rabble Militia are.
>>96270419>And yet the white scars have infantry, lots of it.yeah, and bretonians have peasent infantry, even canons. Imagine if GW brought back fantasty, or if in 9th Age the bretonian army way to play was blocks of peasent infantry and canons, and mages with minimal or no knights.
There is something like faction fantasy in the game. And it is more important, then even lore. Because yes, in history lore we know that Tatars took cities too. But a WS siege company or infantry based army sounds crap. Having to use non WS in your WS army sounds even worse.
ESPECIALY and you seem to be dancing around this, 1ksons do not have to run SA or Ad Mecha to use magic. In fact they can run and extremly powerful magic use army without sacrificing anything. They aren't even punished by super high points. Meanwhile I have to use a legends PDF for all my heroes and can't even give a lance to my officer. Unless of course I model then on foot, then suddenly a cataphract herald knows how to use lance. But on a jetbike? nah that is arcane knowladge to him, that he lost the moment he left the Golden Keshig.
Are power mauls EVER good this edition? It feels like having your guys cosplay as their dad isn't a great idea
>>962704261ksons don't have to sacrifice nothing to run their magic army. You tell me what the "lore" reason is for lances (mentioned in WS BL books,present in previous editions etc) to suddenly be gone from all mounted officers.
A fucking cataphract herlad can take a lance, but not a guy who has it IN THE LORE? The god damn w40k lore says how WS Khans and bikers hunting lances use is a tradition dating back to the time of Jaghatai. how can a WS chapter master in w40k have a named speared from a hero of Horus Heresy, if in HH the heroes can't take lances
>>96270461They mulch 3+ 1w tacticals
>>96270483but who should you use them on? In most cases claws are the far better option. Though maybe new nerfed shred makes the difference smaller?
>>96270401Really... you, you can't think of a single reason why a corporation designed solely to accrue profit would do that? Not the one? Are you sure?
>>96270494I'll be using them on veteran ass squads because I like the aesthetic with a combat shield. I think vanguard terminators are also a fun option
>>96269251>Death Guard would need itDeath Shroud are tartaros, so no justification needed.
Wanna expand my sons of horus, what is the more fluffy allies for them?
solar auxiliary, dark mechanicum or knight/titans
>>96270255Bikes aren't shit for WS. They got the fastest bikes and speeders, making them even more oppressive mobile fire platforms. A command squad on jetbikes buffed by a stormseer can get a guaranteed charge on a unit 28" away. Stop embarrassing yourself with your hyperbolic statements.
>>96270422Not tactical squads.
>>96270545I mean Dies Irae and Legio Mortis in general have always been famous for fighting alongside the SoH. But any of what you listed would work, Horus was the big guy so everybody wanted to be fighting under his command for favour, glory and power.
>>96270353No, it was a journal unit they planned in advance. Studio doesn't get to do fun things anymore without rules.
>>96270533As always. The ones who complain about Gatekeeping are 100% the ones the gates need to keep out. He waited less than three hours between posting his MkVII marine and this post.
could I make rampagers out of nu-MK2?
or would nu-MK3 look better?
and what do the rampager weapons do now? or is it still falax blades all the time
>>96270595you can make rampagers out of any armor mk, just remember that bare heads should have the nails
>>96270595Use nu-MK2, the new Mk 3 looks like ass.
You'll probably still want to spam falax blades, but now it's to be a infantry blobs meat blender rather than the anti-everything glass cannons they used to be.
3.0? 2.5? Legacies PDF? Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? We have to play this cool book FW just released!
>>96270628>DLC rules are fine when the book is pretty
>>96270461They're good enough for munching 3+ saves, all the power weapons are pretty balanced against each other (not you swords), the problem is GW is retarded and raised power weapon costs +10 across the board vs power fists and thunder hammers being +15, while also removing the bonus attack for using a power weapon with a pistol so there's basically no incentive to not spend 5 points more to get even better weapons if you've got the models represented. Power fists and thunder hammer really should be 20 points
>>96270413#NotMyImperialArmy.
>>96270560>troops>line(2)>boltgunSure they are.
>>96270691is it normal for AL to look like blinged out rappers?
>>96270628God I can't wait to get rules for my dark angels. I hope they aren't shit! (This is called foreshadowing)
>>96270167Way too small.
2k is about the minimum
>>96270670If Alan Bligh was still writing them I'd buy all the DLC books.
>>96270265Chain fists and shredders.
On all of them.
They are the vehicle/dreadnought/automata destroyers.
> But WS 5Not enough of them to fight other legion WS5 murder squads anyway (capped at five).
>>96270704I don't think you ever want to run big squads of murder terminators anyways. They're gross overkill on everything but other big Terminator bricks
>>96270167I mean you take a cent, 2 units of troops, logistical benefit a retinue in and then you have 500-400 points and 2 aux detatchments to play with.
>all these YouTubers suggesting everyone always use light cover
Hard pass. Might as well not play with any terrain at that point. Being able to shoot from one deployment edge to the other is bad. Why do they want planet bowling ball?
>>96270717Yeah I have no idea why they keep doing that, it's awful especially when one or both armies are gunline. Why the fuck would you put big ruins in the middle if you don't want them to block LOS??
>>96270695Brother, that is Alpharius
>>96270265Fists are better on morlocks than on any other unit. EW means you don't give a fuck about being I1 and the fists let you out damage hammers against anything more than t5.
>>96270733yea, and so am I
>>96270717They're all tourists. There is no dedicated HH battle reports YT channel. Their opinion literally means less than nothing, because they have no fucking idea what they are doing or talking about.
Not that you should listen to any YTroons to begin with, but for a rare few exceptions.
>>96270717What the actual fuck is wrong with them!?!??! Is it so they can use their big retarded tanks to shoot across the table without having to worry about ruins?
>>96270717Because "their game" was bad touched by GW and any change is inherently evil. They either don't have the balls to go back to an older edition or can't because they're sucking GWs cock and need to recreate 2.0 within 3.0s rules as much as possible.
>>96270717>10th edition youtubers insist using lots of LoS blocking L-shaped terrain is good since it means you can't get shot off the table by a gunline in the first turn or two>same youtubers tell you to only use light cover so armies can shoot each other off of the table in the first turn or two in HHMake it make sense.
Fuck, the falchion looks so cool but it seems like ass.
>The Alpha Legion gambit is called "I am Alpharius"
>Reduces enemy initiative to 1
I like to imagine it's because their opponent is too busy dying from the cringe to attack.
>>96270759well look again, it's a massive unkillable AV14 brick with army deleting guns. Just don't let it get charged by chainfists
>>96270767>army deletingIts 2 shots no blast. Damage 8 is nice and all, but cmon its just too specialized.
>>96270710I think theyโre a pretty big trap, dump 600+ points into one unit (1000+ with transport and character) that slaughters in melee but is generally worse than tacs at shooting, hope your opponent doesnโt have the good sense to melt their transport (lmao if you deep strike them), and then even if they manage to shrek one unit theyโre still stuck waddling the rest of the game
I guess if you both bring it itโs clash of the termies, but I think keeping them cheap and flexible is way better this edition than a deathstar
>>96270759>>96270772>Upset that the super heavy tank always know for being specialised to destroy big tanks, titans, and similarly large targets, is specialised for destroying big tanks, titans, and similarly large targets
>>96270789If its going to only kill tanks, at least make it more accurate. 2 shots hitting on 3s is just too unreliable for my taste.
>>96270798Plus the two laser destroyers
>>96270805I guess. Still, I'd have liked a small blast so it doesn't just whiff as much.
>>96270783termies are pretty clearly meant o abuse vanguard this edition, you send them to an objective, they rinse their tacs off in one round of combat and then sit on their asses scoring 1VP per round forever because everything with line can't really dislodge them and anything bigger probably doesn't want to take multiple turns shooting at them to remove them either. Frankly saturnines wouldn't be too bad for this job since they can just fist and flamers the cappers off and then launch plasma bombards all game, but they're pretty fuckin' expensive
>>96270037This is a Covenanter, a real tank. Directly above that name plate is the radiator for the engine.
You may be asking "wouldn't the engine overheat if that happened to be perforated by small arms fire, particularly if it was deployed in some hot climate like the desert?" The answer is yes.
>>96270818Saturnines dont have vanguard. But also: scoring vanguard with the worlds highest commitment and slowest vanguard charge is going to be hard. Your giant terminator deathstar with 10 justaerin/varangyr/firedrakes+praetor and their spartan are going to be the worlds most obvious armored push and your opponent will be able to position accordingly.
I think smaller units of terminators, maybe tartaros, pushing flanks and smaller units will be more potent. Its harder to realign a battle-line to take out a squad of five ebon keshig, and theyre still going to be functionally immune to small arms fire. The deathstar is dead, long live ws4 terminator MSU. This is also where deep strike can come in handy, if youre say night lords and drop a bunch of contekar/atramentar behind enemy lines turn 2 theyre going to be annoying to deal with and potentially just sweep a flank. Terminators require specialized tools to dislodge, and if those tools arent there then theyre going to do quite well.
>>96270767>it's a massive unkillable AV14 brickTeleports behind u
>>96270848to be fair that looks like they're just big chunks of steel for heat dissipation, I doubt they would be stupid enough to run the coolant hoses through that, right?. If a big chunk of solid steel gets shot a couple times or even has a chunk blown off it's still gonna radiate heat just fine
>>96270848I love when engineers get monumentally high and design the most retarded things imaginable
>>96270854>The long range tank hunter>Not being in a corner or butt to the table edgeSorry, behind me is magical no-no space.
>>96270853I agree, though I think you still want the WS5 squads, the difference is massive. but big bricks aren't great unless you really want to maximize the effect of characters or buffs, which doesn't seem all that worth it. Good thing Land Raider Carriers are pretty great this time around
>>96270853The deathstar has only ever worked because all HH players are addicted to 10 man terminator bricks in a spartan since the game's inception. They've never been actually good, except for beating inexperienced or not as tactically savvy players.
>>96270861>behind me is magical no-no space.Teleports to your left or right
>>96270862Yea, you still want some WS5 elites, theyre the natural predator for WS4 terminators, but the trick is going to be in striking the balance between "powerful enough to body enemy terminators" and "affordable enough to not cost you the game if the enemy doesent force-feed them units"
>>96270854>>96270868I know it's based off the Baneblade and that's why it has those values, but it feels so weird when they have Kratos chassis right there
>>96270868Jokes on you! I'm imperial fists
>shoots selft
>>96270870I think you want the WS5 guys even when mopping up WS4 tacticals. After all, you're going to be outnumbered so you want to make every attack count, otherwise they'll just tarpit you for a while, and that's a trade your opponent will make every time
>>96270882Its still like a kill per terminator at ws4 right? So you still win combat by quite a bit.
>>96270855What you see externally are the radiator covers, underneath are the actual radiators. It was a pretty serious design flaw that meant damage that would otherwise have been superficial could disable the tank. It was changed for the Crusader, seen on right.
>>96270897>AchillesOh so they knew
>>96270890yeah but between vexillas and the like you're not doing great into a 20 man blob.
>>96270905You still win by like 3 or something, so thats still a pretty reliable fall back (vanguard pts). And a 20 man blob costs about as much as 5 upgraded regular terminators.
>>96270853If 10 termies in a spartan is bad, then what the fuck am I supposed to do with this fucking Spartan and the ten termies that came in the Age of Darkness box?
>>96270935Two five man terminator units and a 20 man despoiler squad in the spartan. Threat saturation.
>>96270853also think the increasing prominence of terminators/TEQs with eternal warrior slowly invalidates almost all would-be deathstars without it
Justaerin 4A is still amazing, but if a squad of them runs into some deathwing terminators, itโs not even close
Multi-purpose, flexible objective stealers is probably the smartest use for terminators and anything else is probably a meme
>>96270935An awesome diorama and/or terrain piece, and two 5 man termie squads. Or you know, you can still run the big brick if you like, the Spartan's guns are really good and it's fucking unkillable so it's not like you're paying for nothing. Besides, the big spearhead deathstar might be inefficient for objective trading but it's still a very good sledgehammer to just drive up the middle of the board and force your opponent to reposition around, or even act as a decoy while the units you actually care about do their jobs
>>96270935Keep the option for it, like
>>96270959, as sometimes a big deathstar can be good, just not in most games. But yeah, use it to cart around 20 despoilers or tacticals in most games and get a couple of land raider carriers for the termies.
>>96270950Morlocks and deathwing companions are limited to 5 man units. Theyre tough as nails, but dont come in big enough numbers to fight a deathstar. Morlocks in particular lack thunderhammers, which means they go after the enemy (which will really hurt them).
Also quite weak to banestrike. Youre probably going to be a terminator down even before you make it into combat.
>>96269629>I'm a faggot with no self control or sense of narrative, so everyone else has to have their choices taken away from them to force me to experience the variety I'm too much of a faggot to realize through my own actionsIf I could snap my fingers and see every single person like you die slowly in agony, pissing and shitting and puking blood, I would do it without a moment's hesitation or a single nanogram of guilt.
>>96270950Justaerin dying when charging thoughtlessly into IF? That would never happen in the lore
>>96270977It can be disheartening as a player when you feel like you're being punished for choosing the narrative option because one choice is so clearly superior.
I guess not, but does someone know which fonts are used inside Libers (mainly units page) ?
>>96269847>>96269942Abeyants move 6" and can't run, I think you might be better off without the Abeyant just so you stand a chance of actually reaching melee with anyone. The Malagra boys using their gambit to boost up to WS7 A6 with a S10 power fist are in an odd position where they might actually want to lose initiative because the buff from their Gambit lasts until they attack, at which point they go back to being hit on 3s/4s instead of 5s, so you might want the fist over the hammer if you're challenging, since it lets you hit S11 to smack tanks around.
Myrmidax want Fury of Ages and Malagra want Overcharged Reactors to boost themselves before charging, so call it 140 or 170 for a melee Archmagos depending on whether you want a plasma fusil and meltagun or not, and then another 120 or so for some ablative Scyllax to fill out the Macrocarid party bus.
>>96270269>legacies document brought back customisationExcept for all the things it didn't. I might have tolerated all the shitty things about 3.0 - 4 turn missions, progressive scoring on magic circles, wasting the time you "saved" from going 4 turns on a dumbass challenge minigame, needlessly convoluted listbuilding, a general decline in the level of *flavour* in almost everything - and given the potentially good/potentially wonky parts a chance - pretty much just the status effect stuff - but I refuse to get on a treadmill where GW arbitrarily invalidates chunks of my army every 3-4 years and tells me I can't be trusted to equip the leaders of my own fucking forces.
And you're dreaming if you think the wider community will learn the right lessons from this affair. GW's influencer shills are already hardcore spinning the shit out of this whole thing as basically just a pointless online tantrum by a loud minority and just like when GW literally blew up the game that made them as a company to replace it with Smegmar complete with rules that literally required people who wanted to keep playing their existing armies to behave like fucking clowns to get their ingame advantages, most of the drones who make up the modern audience will lap it up.
>>96270935Do not listen to these fags. 10 terminators popping out of a Spartan is SOVLFUL. Use them to fight the opposing 10 termies in a Spartan your opponent will inevitably bring.
>>96271010ChatGPT says Adobe Caslon.
>>96271010Intellecta Roman Tall
>>96271004That's 30k. It's for pushing past that and enjoying the game.
>>96270970Mostly meant huscarls, shield means even a full unit of Justaerin with hammers will only kill 3, then they slap back with 4-5 easily
But even those other ones can take multiple squads since theyโre all retinue and Iโd argue thatโs more useful most games anyway, at even points/numbers the EW termies just eat D2 weapons so easily itโs hard to overcome
Which kit are these claws from?
>>96271086The sergeant sprue from the nu tactical squads
>>96271086Isn't that from the sergeant sprue that comes with every box of Tactical Squads
>>96271033>abloo hoo hoo I'm an eternal victim Nut up anon. I was as big a doomer as it came when those cucked libers leaked. The cherry on top is I'm a DA player (The Raped). We were vocal, and the multi-billion dollar company gave back a lot of ground. The new units aren't perfect but they're fun. They've got me inspired to try out some conversions and novel units. I will 100% homebrew anything that I think was egregiously removed or invalidated and I advise you to do the same. It's YOUR hobby
>>96270533It disgusts me. Itโs a slippery slope. Then before you know it, youโre playing against Primaris.
>>96271203They're Raptors :)
>>96270628I wish they weren't so fucking expensive now. I was a poorfag when they originally came out, and now I'm a normalfag in terms of income you need to be a richfag to afford them as "collectibles". Managed to score the first three at a reasonable price(only slightly above inflation relative to RRP, and in mint condition), but I spent a year trying to hunt for not even bargains just not complete wallet rapes for the rest and it ain't happenin'. Some of them go for 600+ quid now it's mad.
>>96270717>>96270751It's pretty simple: The terrain rules are, RAW, totally fucking borked, but the shilltubers still have to fulfill their contracts and push the game, so they urge people to ignore most of the terrain rules so the game is at least functional and they don't have comment sections full of people asking why they either have units standing 3" apart with no obstructions that can't see each other, or else have to micro-define every last scrap of the board as this or that kind of terrain and keep a fucking Tome of notes to keep track of it all.
>>96271086I think it's insane that there are three variants of the same power fist
The assault squad variant has a different elbow and the melee upgrade has different cabling
What the fuck
>>96269672why the fuck would you eat pizza in nepal
>>96271248when your crusade spans the entire galaxy and your factories are just copying poorly understood schematics from various different models, that tends to happen
>>96271258Not really, the likelihood of the changes being limited to superficial elements compared to a completely different design altogether are pretty slim.
You know, like how other marks came with different patterns for their various weapons altogether?
>>96271235>borkedDisagree, but it's such an easy fix.
>In, out, not throughThis is the one game where playing RAW isn't a social requirement. Which is a sad, sad statement because old editions had the "these are just rules to start, please have fun doing what you want." clause.
People are too literal to understand what the three classes of terrain are. They assume heavy should be standard rectangles that units wander into, instead of things like cargo containers on tracks so you don't pinhole snipe.
>>96271235But if everyone counts all terrain as light cover, doesn't that mean that in these games units will shoot at each other through huge, LoS blocking ruins?
>>96271270Keep in mind the exterior is just a casing, and that's the part they can alter on a whim. If a certain power fist has a radically different design on the inside, it's not gonna look too different on the outside unless there's humongous coils or the like, and that all gets covered up with a generic metal casing so you end up with the variation present on the kits
>>96271284I kept that in mind and I realized the inside of my miniatures are either plastic or air
I don't pay for the imaginary design inside the dood, nor can I paint it
>>96270717it's a GW failed to write a 3rd edition worth a shit issue.
4+ cover comes tied with an instant never-tournament-legal invisibility field which event prevents two chainsaw guys 1 inch away from ever charging each other for the entire game.
5+ cover comes with a 3" invisibility field, so you can have guys invisible congo lining halfway down a wall with any standard footprint terrain.
6+ cover essentially does nothing at all in a new edition where if 19 guys are behind a building and you see the 20th guy's toe you're allowed to shoot all 20 dead with magical curving bullets.
There's literally not even one single shred of anything good in HH3's terrain rules. Literally the worst that has ever existed in any wargame in human history. Having no rules at all would be better than HH3's terrain+vision ruleset.
Does anyone know why they decided to remove legion traits from every vehicle in the game? I liked how the old system kind of prompted you to model your vehicles differently to represent the differen armoured doctrines of the legions.
Though I guess counting as 2" further for AL vehicles would be even more stupid than in 2.0 now that melta has lower range, and iF just being better than everyone else with most tank weapons was lame.
>>96270717L-SHAPED WALLS
WE NEED L-SHAPED WALLS
WINDOWS COUNT AS CLOSED
FIRST FLOOR INVISIBLE
>>96270904Even when many of them were privately educated, soldiers still had a wry sense of humour.
>Rhinos come with two bolters now
>Thousand Sons can replace any bolter in the army with an Asphyx Bolter
>Asphyx bolters have the Pistol type
Is this the first time in Warhammer that a vehicle can be equipped with pistols?
>>96271328Heavy is for impassible or other hardened items on the field like:
>>96271280>cargo containers on tracks so you don't pinhole snipe.It's not meant for a ruin, or other area terrain units are expected to go into. Likewise the 3" is meant for abstracting fallen columns, crates, sandbags, other scatter etc without physical clutter impeding models. Though they should have had that as a sub type called "dense". So you could have a bombed out building that's just crumbling walls and nothing in the middle you can see with TLoS anywhere inside and a dense ruin that is perhaps a supply depot with heavy containers etc that infantry can duck in and around.
>>96271123Yeah man, but my hobby is actually playing games and as an Eternal Grog who's spent most of the last 20 years playing dead or unsupported games do you know what was nice? Having *one* game I didn't have to fucking struggle to play. Having *one* game where I could just rock up at the club with an army without first having to spend two years building up a group from scratch and half my hobby time thereafter keeping it from collapsing, or spending the first hour of my 3 hour slot negotiating houserules.
Nibba I have almost *40* Mordheim warbands(admittedly most of them not finished...) and three of them are based on rules I wrote myself. I'm not *incapable* of making something out of 3.0, I just don't see the fucking point given all the downsides and the fact it's lost one of the main reasons Heresy was so fun for me; not being a fucking chore.
>>96271383Yeah, thatโs what Iโm saying
>>96271282Again: their objective is not to tell you how to have an enjoyable game, it's to get you to play the game they're paid to promote in spite of its massive gaping flaws. Once you take their shitty advice and spend a grand on all the rules and models you need to play, neither they nor GW give a shit if you actually have a good time.
>>96271354Depends on your definitions, Invictor warsuit did it years ago
>>96271354Do you count guns firing form inside transports counting as being fired by the transport?
>>96271429NTA, but those are usually resolved with the passengers stats, so no.
>>96271429Stupid question, next question.
>>96271460throwback to GSC transports firing one-use weapons from the embarked squad, and then the squad disembarks and has them again because the squad didn't fire the weapon, the transport it
>>96268567 (OP)Holy shit is that goldshi!?
>>96271086>makes the fingers separate from the fist>makes an ugly ass cumbersome looking lighting claw piece to add on the top of the powerfist when they could just have added a different bladed finger design to switch the powerfist fingers with.Fuck GW
>>96271521how's he supposed to jack off with knife fingers idiot
>>96271354Yeah, but it's not worth it. +3 points per asphyx bolter? Bad investment
>>96271564Bad on rhinos
Decent on tacticals
>>96271568How? You're better off saving those 30 points per tactical squad on something useful. If you have 3 tactical squads, for example, you can instead spend those 90 points on a land speeder with a multi-melta and two HK missiles
>>96271578It increases their damage output into other infantry squads of like size enough to, on average, force a rout check and increases their output into hardier targets by 50-60%
>>96271354What does pistol even do?
Someone posted these as scyllax proxies on reddit. I don't particularly like them, but I do like the idea of using thralls made from captured marines for scyllax, particularly if I paint them in the schemes used by the local marine players.
>>96271747Lets you shoot 2 weapons, same as before
Asphyx bolters being pistols is probably a typo tho
>>96269976>when would you say Claws are the pick?Against anything weaker than 2W 5++. If they don't have an invuln, go. If they have only 1W, go.
Everyone talks about muh WS5 Elite termies, and you should have an answer to that, but they're not the majority of targets. They're not 3 out of 4 VEQs, they're not Tacticals.
But if you see 2W 5++ or better, use Hammers (or just fucking shoot them)
>>96269992Claws don't shred anymore, anon. They are Breaching 6 (AP2 on a 6 to wound) and Rending 6 (autowounds and counts as a 6 to wound on a 6 to hit)
>>96270252They don't. Claws will kill TH bearers only if they have no invuln.
>>96270628Someone tried to trade in Books 1 & 3 (along with the entirety of Vraks) to the LGS but he didn't like their offer and they threw away his contact info :(
Really beautiful tomes.
How necessary are tactical support marines to the AESTHETIC of armies compared to rapiers?
>>96270413I acknowledge the Cadian look had to come from somewhere, but assuming the Army uniform was Vostroyan is just fun. In warm climates they can just strip down to Catachan fatigues
>>96271758Mwahaha let's gooo :^)
I'll spam the email to ask for FotL with Shrapnel bolters u.u
>>96271821They are mandatory
>>96271564>>96271578I think youโre seriously underestimating how good Rending (6+) is. A 20-man tactical squad suddenly becomes a threat against any infantry unit that costs as much as they do or more. Even a Primarch would be wary. Put it on a unit with Firestorm (like destroyers) and suddenly you get two firing iterations minimum before melee combat
>>96271821If you don't have both a tactical support and heavy support squad on the board, you're dead to me.
Of course, given that rapiers take up the same slot as support squads do, that does make slotting both them and rapiers into an army...somewhat difficult.
Entire demi company done, now on to the next one
>>96271880Isn't rending just an auto wound now, with zero armor piercing potential behind it?
>>96271494the shops have been continuing and will continue
I'm thinking of running a squad of vet tacticals with banestrike combis, would it be worth it? For 260 points you'd get 20 3+ wounds and 40 breaching 6+ shots at 18, which should average just under ten wounds against power armor and 4 wounds against cataphractii.
>>96271953Very miserable of you. Just go to /a/ if you want to talk about your dumb horse anime.
>>96271931Auto wounding on 6s alone is a 27%, 54% or 123% damage increase depending on if you wounded on 4s, 5s or 6s initially
>>96271959I mean. It sounds worth it, especially since tactical vets are line(1). Don't trust me though I'm not good at this game
>>96271751Its always ideal to antagonize your friends as much as possible when playing warhammer.
>>96271979For 30 points per 10 man tactical squad? idk mang...idk....
>>96271086>>96271521Wrist-mounted claws are dumb. Why would you ever wear short blades on your wrist when you could use a full-size sword in your hand instead?
Claws make sense when the fingers are the blades. Like raptor jump packs and chainaxes, they are heresy aesthetic
I wish marines also had 80's hairstyles, bandanas and cool glasses. It'd really give a look of a long-gone era...
>>96270696Screwed in 1st and shit on in 3rd. Hope you'll enjoy your legion.
>>96272007I use all my extra power armor bits to base my marines and dreads with dead legionnaires of the legions my friends play, it adds a bit of personal animosity that makes the game more fun (my vigilator has a string of helmets for each hq he's killed, has 3 or 4 now and all my buddies have a kill on sight order for him now)
>RG fags are already complaining about deliverers not getting eternal warrior like all the other battle hardened or 3 wound termies
HAHA GET FUCKED WAACFAGS
>>96271979They're an incredibly stupid purchase for Thousand Sons in particular.
27% increase in offense with 0% increase in defense for 30% increase in price would be a fail, they are only worth it if shooting repeatedly into T5 and T6 enemies. Against marine T5 that's typically 2+ terminators where the squad isnt cost effective. Instead of 30 shots and 6.7 wounding, you get 30 shots and 11 wounding, but after 2+ armor save that's an extra 0.7 wounds dealt to the terminator, not even half of 1 terminator and you wasted 30 points extra.
3 extra tactical marines for the same 30 points is 6 more bolter hits and 2 more wounds on the terminators and 0.3 wounds extra. So you deal 0.4 more wounds by going with the glass cannon guns but your unit has 3 less tactical marines, 3 less wounds in it and is more likely to lose control of the objective.
They're a particularly dumb choice for Thousand Sons, where it's 10 points to get Corvidae power 5+ Rending which is what actual terminator weapons would use and to put it on Breaching guns rather than bolters. Aether Fire Blasters with 2 shots S6 AP4 Dmg2 breaching6+ which also breach when rending5+ are a better use of points into absolutely everything.
>>96271838>I acknowledge the Cadian look had to come from somewhereThere's 10,000 fucking years for that 'somewhere' to have been. There is no need at all for it to have come from the Heresy.
Every instance of 30k setting up things exactly as they end up by 40k is an instance of terrible worldbuilding.
Your taste in uniforms, vostroyans and the og visions art is good, don't sully it by running defence for GW getting lazy later on.
I like searching for Armistos pics and most people have decided to give him a heavy weapon in one hand and a melee or pointing arm in the other.
>>96272138he looks like he beats his wife
I'm trying something, not idea how fair it would be.
>>96272148which font did you end up going with?
>>96272138>Implacable advance>Heavy weapons What did GW mean by this?
>>96272159Cinzel Black and EB Garamond, close enough.
How does sky blue plates, brass trim, and black and gold marbled shoulders sound for a Mechanicum knight household? Want to start working on my moiraxes and eventually atrapos soon so I need to Nail this down. My main mechanicum color scheme is metallic red and black.
Whats a good base for a NL herald? Kinda liking the sound of one with a headsmans axe and jump-pack.
>>96272232Ediolon, swap hammer head for axe and add NL helmet. Maybe change the eagle shoulder pad too
>>96272246And the banner?
>>96272226>>96272226probably fine, I don't think it would be mistaken for anything else since avoiding white dodges the terryn accusations
>>96272251Abstracted as he phat beats blasting from the speakers.
>Screaming Heavy Phonk to Flay to
>>96272251Paint the cloak with the banner's design
>>96272246just realised he's standing on a smashed up Leviathan with power cables behind the armour plates
those things on the front aren't lights or screws or vents they're charging ports
>>96269672Same
>>96269993I can read, I don't need to play your shitty system to know it fucking sucks, shill-kun.
>>96272292Isnt it a deredeo? Hes standing on where the guns should be
>>96272292>>96272301it's a Deredeo, the IH logo is on the side of the chest
>"mordian glory isn't a good source of information, anon"
>wayland games clarifies drama through mordian glory
nta, but apologize
>>96272364No one cares about your pet eceleb
>>96272386don't be mad you got btfo within 24 hours of a post :^)
>>96272364Voltage, huh? Bold choice when baha blast is available these days.
>>96272418I don't even know what you're talking about. Like I said. No one cares.
Hey, at least 3.0 means there'll be a bunch of new Warpstone Flux articles
>>96272425bold spelling mistake to have in a critique
>>96272427>retards speculate wildly for weeks on Saturnine>people making up so much shit the 'instigating' company is issuing statements to youtubers and streamers to readit's funny, stay mad
>>96272492Post models with timestamp
>>96272364You were told he wasn't a good source for rumors you disingenuous queer
That hasn't changed
>>96272501post your baja blast with a timestamped apology first
Wait a minute. So there's no Veteran Assault marines on foot?!
>local no longer able to club me over the head with his iron warriors bc of the edition change
>resorted to complaining about my mech and wanting to start his own homebrew edition
>>96272138that is a catellan.
over under on splitting betrayal at calth at a significant discount with a friend?
So we all agree that only waacfags play thousand sons, right?
>>96272543Shut the FUCK up you whiny LITTLE faggot!
GW gave us Legacies so it's time to FORGET about that old SHIT and consoom NEW EDITION!
THANK YOU GAME SWORKSHOP!
>>96272543Yes there are. They are called centurion command squads now
>>96272619this but unironically
>>96272543You expected it to be anything but damage control? That's all their legacies documents have ever been across literally every one of their game systems
>>96271959Tactical Vets can capture objectives with banestrike, and Headhunters can snipe people with banestrike.
So, I don't think actual Seekers have any use for Banestrike? A similarly equipped squad would be 155 pts, 30 more than headhunters, and would lack Precision or Smokescreen. Same stats otherwise.
>>96272543You're upset about that? Think about the reductor artillery tanks, won't somebody please think of the reductor artillery tanks!
>>96272543Centurion command squad. The only thing you lose is the near global change of no more melee/pistol/ranged loadouts and no nemesis bolters, graviton guns, or heavy chainswords.
>>96272608Face it, 1kson fag: You're a waacfag. Any narrative player wouldn't be touching thousand sons since they barely participated in most of the heresy anyway.
>>96272619>THANK YOU GAME SWORKSHOP!THANK YOU GAME SWORKSHOP!
>THANK YOU GAME SWORKSHOP!THANK YOU GAME SWORKSHOP!
>THANK YOU GAME SWORKSHOP!THANK YOU GAME SWORKSHOP!
Now that playing thousands sons has been criminalized, we need to turn our attention to the salamanders question.
>>96272118>There's 10,000 fucking years for that 'somewhere' to have been.This is the biggest crime of the setting - indeed nothing at all happened during the ten thousand years timeskip: Krieg was lost and regained in M40, Macharius was born in M41.
Basically the only two things of note from that era are the creation of the Sororitas, and Centurion suits. War of the Beast is M32 so it only just barely fits "timeskip" instead of "post-Scouring" lmao
>>96272118Also thanks lol
>>96272683To be fair, there are pretty good reasons for why everything stays static. It's like the dark ages times a hundred
If your legion isn't in the first three black books, you are not a TRVE horus heresy player, just a 40k tourist. All other legions are IRRELEVANT to the main thrust of the heresy narrative. Yes, that means that playing any loyalist legion that wasn't shattered at Istvaan V or the Imperial Fists makes you a TOURIST. Thousand Sons players are also TOURISTS. GET FUCKED.
>>96272502Well now it's not rumours, you cumfelching poofter - GWUSA has over 9K Saturnine still in stock in their webstore alone, GWUK's webstore has at least 9999 units and the only reason we can't know for certain how many more there are is the website borks itself when you try to order so many. That's after a two week preorder AND a full week of release, in the context of a company that plans its business around selling the vast majority of anything it makes on the day of release.
You can polish that boot with your tongue 'till it's fucking *reflective* and it won't change the reality that 3.0 is a gigaflop.
>>96272683Its almost like stagnation and decay are a theme or something. You know, millennia of constant war and the imperium cannibalizing itself for parts ad infinitum
>>96272710Show me the ratios on the 9th and 10th 40k editions
Got a 1000 point game coming up to start off 3.0. Thoughts on my list? The errors aren't errors.
>>96272722any list that includes siege tyrants is a bad list fyi.
>The Scouring will finally give us canon livery for the Wolf Brothers
I hope those doomed retards are cool
>>96272683It's almost as if the game's creators gave us a vast span of time with lots of evocative little hints & snippets so that WE could tell all the stories we liked with our games without destroying the status quo of the setting, but that between corpodrones at HQ and drooling retard spoonfeedees in the fanbase stamping their feet for HURR DURR GIM ME MUH STORYLINE UGURRRR ME NO THINKY STORY GOOD ME WANT CARTOON AND TENDIES UDURRR all of that was ruined.
>>96272699>ultramarine players are tourists>blood angel players are tourists>dark angel players are tourists>space wolf players are tourists>white scars players are tourists>thousand sons players are waacfaggot tourists>custode players are regularfaggot tourists>blackshield players are indecisive tourists
>>96272683Reminder that they retconned tyranids into showing up in m41 rather than m36 making one of the oldest factions in the game a recent arrival to the galaxy. The whole 40k universe is time compressed to the point of absurdity.
>>96272721>lick lick lick
>>96272722>pure footsloggingbased but possibly retarded
>>96272544Have you played any of 3e mech yet? I am looking eagerly at those Thallax special weapons, but it seems a bit of a restrictive army list in general.
>had the saturnine box 2 weeks before release
>doesn't have the energy to paint it due to work
my life is a conga line of hardships i can't manage
>>96272699>>96272741But the shattered legions were shattered, and thus barely participated in the heresy outside of being massacred. If you play them as a main army, YOU'RE the tourist. Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Blood Angels were big participants in the defense of Ultramar. White Scars participated a lot against the traitors and resisting IF garrisons as they tried to stop Horus from reaching Terra. Space Wolves, too. Meanwhile the Emperor's Children did fuck all after the drop site massacre. You're wrong. If these legions are for "real players" despite barely participating, so are the thousand sons
>>96272663I'm from Caliban and I say kill 'em all!
>>96272740>>96272717True, true. If things had happened during that time, people would've complained about that instead.
But I do say, if there's Nova Terra Interregnum (whatever that was) and Goge Vandire's whole thing, you could afford Krieg to happen then.
I mean even the Badab War happened barely yesterday, in M41.901. Idk stuff could afford to happen in M37 or something
is there any way to modify first turn / deployment / seize rolls like in 2.0?
>>96272663there's 4 general bubbles
SSS tier: Thousand sons abusing rend-breach whether they bring primarch or not, Vulkan if mission supports primarch deathstar slamming. HorusAscended only if enemy ignores mission entirely to play primarch slamfest.
A tier: Alpha legion, less-abuse thousand sons, salamanders if no primarch dueling, iron hands, raven guard, imp fists (or maybe B), ultramarines, deathguard
B tier: space wolves, world eaters, iron warriors, night lords, blood angels, white scars, sons of horus, emperors children
F tier: word bearers, dark angels
A and B can always have okay games, but A just generally more reliable. It might be possible for a passable game between B and F (*provided word bearer or dark angels tunes their list absolutely maximum to compensate for his worst traits in game and opponent plays a little softer). No passable games between SSS and A.
>>96272663>>96272772you get to complain when we get one named character in the liber beside the primarch.
until then, genuinely : suck it
>>96272768The shattered legions:
>bravely contribute the most towards slowing down Horus's legions on his way to terra>participated in the Siege of Terra>instrumental to the loyalist effortThe Thousand Sons
>sit on their asses in the Eye of Terror for the majority of the heresy>only leave to get Magnus Pokรฉmon which contributes nothing to the heresy>eventually participate in the Siege of Terra and basically do nothingOne of these is revelant. The other is for TOURISTS.
>>96272733Yeah, I know they're not great, but I don't have the models to work in a list at a smaller scale (basically no TSS or HSS last edition, or Dreads for my IW), and they're only like 70 points more expensive than my regular Catas, and what the fuck am I gonna do with 70 points with the detachment restrictions?
>>96272750IV Legion m8, what else do you expect?
>>96272761yeah the thallax multi melta squad is pretty nimble and can dish out a ton of damage
vulturax are exceptional at dealing with vehicles by either make them snapshoot or just destroying them
krios in macrotek is disgusting against rapiers and tacticals and super durable for the points
the army struggles to score objectives though, you will almost always lose contested because the army doesn't have line so you need to understand your target priority
>>96272783>Death Guard>A tierAll they get to do is move up to 4" a turn with heavy weapons. Over the course of 4 turns, that a grand total of...16" moved. WOW!!! SO IMPACTFUL!!! A-TIER!!! fuck you
>>96272783What about hereticus Emperor's Children?
>>96272783>A tier: Alpha legion>When Saboteurs' best role is to squad on an objectiveI can't complain about daggers or banestrike shotguns too much. Even with headhunters going from 3 atk in the charge to 1A, and daggers now replacing a weapon instead of being an extra blade (no more dagger termies), they were minor things that don't really change much.
But Saboteurs did change lots idk
From a narrative standpoint, which legion works best for every single battle on the TT, even mirror matches?
>>96272746Should help prove your point but alas
>>962728362" is really strong for charges now, efrit are also nutso. Rewards of treachery is evergreen.
>>96272824>Doesn't understand how a 4" count as stationary move is useful for long range weapons in an edition with 3" invisibility lines exist.>Instead insists on the extreme hyperbole "I must only move 4" with all units regardless of benefit"Typical hhg
>>96272078to be fair its like the only extra unit they got
>>96272683yeah, it's kind of amazing how large the uneventful zone is.
5 gone in essentially 200 years. then the last 2 who must've been bored as fuck (no primarch-level threats around for hundreds of years) in the first millenium.
31K+
~1 year, corax says some goth shit and vanishes
15 years, lion el'jonson gurked
84 years, jaghatai gets punked
121 years, guilliman raped by fulgrim
211 years, russ gets sent to go live on a farm
781 years, rogal dorn torn to pieces during first black crusade and it isnt even some epic duel between him and abaddon
1000-ish years, vulkan creates a shitty ARG for salamanders and goes to buy cigarettes while they're distracted
between 32K-40K just 8000 years of nothing.
>>96272824Eh they have fun stuff. Eternal Warrior 2 on some random guy is hillarious.
Also, they can't be slowed down by difficult terrain, which is big enough. And their trait now works out of a disembark (and a deepstrike), meaning they can jump out of a drop pod with S9 multimeltas, or have those Tacticals take a Rhino (M12"), disembark another 4" and still get that Heavy (FP)
>>96272768lorelet spotted
>>96272783>F tier:>dark angels
>>96272836The 2" increased distance from the AL legion trait alone puts them solidly in A tier. It's such a busted rule if you make use of it, even more so now that charges are only 1D6 total distance.
>buy a bunch of thousand sons kits and bits and whatnot
>decide that I no longer want to play thousand sons since they apparently just sat around playing pokemon with shard of their primarch the whole goddamned time instead of engaging in actual military campaigns
FUCK. WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO???
>>96272852I acknowledge -2" being big, though difficult terrain no longer slows charges, so that's fair.
Effrit are alright and hilariously more of a saboteur than the Saboteur himself, but they do cost almost 200 pts with snipers.
I deny banestrike shotguns. They do nothing outside a 6, and unlike Banestrike combis, they don't have 4 shots to gamble with
>>96272870>I don't remember which things happened>therefore nothing happened
>>96272906The fleets he sent away did stuff
The Prospero survivors that turned Loyalist did stuff
>>96272917If it had been important, you'd remember it without having to look up what Nova Terra Interregnum was
>>96272906Your Dudes, anon. Maybe Your Dudes are a chapter of the Thousand Sons who ventured out from the Eye of Terror to accompany Horus as he made his way towards Terra. Maybe your force is looking for shards. Maybe your force was sent away before Prospero burned, and now hunts Space Wolves after learning of what happened. Maybe Your Dudes became pirates. Or stayed loyal. Idk man. They're Your Dudes.
>>96272906Fake. If you really wanted to play TS you would regardless
>>96272906Could always paint them up as blackshields. Blackshield Thousand Sons, bro.
>>96272906Thousand Sons whooped the Dark Angel's ass on Zhao-Arkhad that one time just build up that warband.
>>96272852Are effrit really that good this edition? Looked pretty mid now their shotties don't reroll wounds - those were disgusting against dreads in 2.0, was always funny to roll hot and delete a contemptor in one shooting volley.
>>96269251>Every "explanation" for it ends up feeling like an excuse, out of placeYeah, that's how the HH game has been since Betrayal (fitting name).
FW and now GW didn't want people to use the same minis or with the same name than in 40k or just wanted to sell people new expensive resin.
That's why the game introduced dickbikes, units that made no sense, or ignores actual well know units in favour of their own unfluffy version.
Specially since HH2, the game lives in its own separate setting deviating more and more from the books and previous lore. They even retcon the Black Books now for a quick buck.
>>96272897Are you the retard who thinks "mug detachments" and spamming Interdiction Cadre is a redeeming factor for a legion with a non existent trait?
>>962728708000 years of
>The Ecclesiarchy soldifying worship of Big E.>The AdMech hoarding all the tech>Space marine autism solidfying>The Inquisition SHUTTING IT DOWN.>Orks and Eldar fucking shit up.>Countless minor civil wars.
>>96272989Idk, are you the retard who thinks having six different unique detachments with prime slots is weak?
>>96272836alpha are a combination of good shooting in a shooting edition and extreme hard-countering of melee charges which pretty much every army will bring to increase their damage-dealing since more than 50% of legions wont have firepower to clear the enemy off objectives without charging.
+2" to a 1d6 inch charge is a very big change in the odds. That changes melee-focused armies from overpriced but guaranteed charges to overpriced (having to pay for a bunch of transports) and still often having several units fail their charges over the course of each 4 turn game. It affects alternative charges too, interdiction cadre has to be in the 5-6" band in front of the enemy. It does not get a setup move. It's not possible to charge 7-8 inches on 1d6 charge system, so someone could show up with 2 interdiction units of Despoilers that he simply can't put in reserves and instead has to footslog with -2" charge range from his deployment zone because alpha legion are impossible to interdiction.
some legions good guns are limited in range. For example SSS tier Thousand Sons alt plasma guns are 18" to get Dmg2 instead of Dmg1. Suddenly knocking those to 16" without changing his list makes it much easier for you to drive your Lernean LR to a far flank out of their terminator-slaughtering 16"
Rewards of treachery means getting things like Dark Angels EW1 companion squad without having to be shitty dark angels with no legion trait at all.
Alpha legion gambit to set enemy init = 1 is top tier of gambits, unlike shitty useless ones like dark angels. Suddenly your Thunderhammer master-sargeants are striking first.
RoW detach allows 2 prime recons, like Malefic LR explorator immune to all weapons S8.
And precision/sniper characters and units still look very useful, which many other legions like world eaters probably wont take, for at minimum their personal fluff reasons, while AL should probably own several.
AdvReact maxes prec6+ so in a prec4+ sniper vs sniper duel, you win
>>96273005Shove your prime slots up your ass I swear to god. It doesn't make up for not having a legion trait
>>96270413None if you do the work: remove the imperialis winged skulls, use SA decals, paint them grey with khaki fatigues... Make them to NOT look like 40k models.
Even better if you can add the ring they have around their helmets in these Neil Roberts illustrations.
>>96271838The "Vostroyans" are from early Great Crusade regiments, while the "Cadians" are standarized militia units that came later. The ones in the art are conscripts from Terra and elsewhere recruited by the Loyalists.
>>96273014isn't rewards of treachery just kind of pointless now?
you can just ally in whatever you want, all you're doing is skipping the HQ tax
>>96273005you can't list a single prime slot advantage that's in the same tier as the top half of legion traits, so you're the retard who thinks DA aren't the worst legion in the game which is what they are.
>>96273019Concession accepted on behalf of the Ist
>>96273039I can name a bunch, they're just not marine ones
>>96272118>later on.Imperial Army in Cadian style fatigues and armour are as old as Vossie style winter fatigues. This "it's in 40k so it has no place in 30k" elitism has to stop. It's embarrassing.
>>96273034allied dark angels would have the dark angels legion trait (do nothing)
allied word bearers would have the word bearers legion trait (essentially nothing)
Treachery units get the Alpha Legion passive. Then also no HQ tax. And Alpha Legion characters could join that unit without the unit suffering -1 ld / -1 cool / -1 will. An Alpha Legion sniper in a squad of DA companions, etc.
>>962729162" is big, yeah dawg, its huge
>>96273043the only silver lining of HH3 is that Dark Angels are the worst legion in game and have the most faggot playerbase in all of 30k so we don't have to feel bad about it.
If it was Salamanders in F-tier yet again, I'd have a bit of the feels.
What do you call it when a bus of Dark Angels goes flying over a cliff?
A good start.
>>96273054why would you want to put a sniper in with a bunch of companions?
you can also join the hq you're forced to take with the unit they want
and you've conveniently chosen the worst legion traits when there are others that are much more useful
you also get access to their legion armory
>>96272972Hydra's Wail now debuffs all enemy units within 12", forcing them to roll 3D6 for Cool and Int checks discarding the lowest. Combine with some status applying weapons, maybe a consul that has Fear, and shut down any unit you fancy reliably.
>TFW AL can now do the NL's trick but better
>>96272972A full squad of effrit outputs around 3 ap2 D2 wounds per volley, + however many chaff shots that don't really matter against termies (what the ap2 D2 stuff matter against). They have stun(0), which is pretty good because of their bonkers debuff aura.
So in summary their damage output is mediocre (unless you roll hot) but their real value is as a combo piece for all your tasty status effect guys.
>>96272978No way that dude's name is "War". That's some Orkish name. Directly translating Visions stuff into minis would've been mission accomplished
Are there transfers for this scheme anywhere?
>>96273093>>TFW AL can now do the NL's trick but better3d6 drop lowerst is comparable to +1 (which is what fear essentially does)
>>96273135luckily it doesn't apply to ld which is what the strongest status checks from
>>96273135That's why you combo it with something like a herald or an esoterist. That way you have Fear and the Hydra's Wail for maximum psychological horror.
>>96273139fear? it applies to all mental stats
The efrit? Yea, its only cool and int. Although cool is definetly the most common stat, since pinning, suppressed and stunned all test against it (while only panic tests vs ld)
>>96273149Cool is usually lower than leadership too. Most sergeants have ld 8 but still a mere 7 cool.
Guess sergeants just are not that cool.
>>96273149being the most common doesn't matter when you're the one writing your army and can take as much panic as you want
damn so 50 point aux troops get psudo line (2)? seems like great allies. boys are we back??
>>96273165That too, for marines anyways (admech are the opposite, very high cool but lower LD for most of their units).
>>96273168Panic also has some of the fewest activations. If you want to cause panic your options are either flamers (panic(0/1), short range) or phosphex(panic(3), expensive platforms). Pinning and suppressive on the other hand are seemingly more common and generally more convenient to apply, coming on long range platforms and combi weapons and shit. Stun is also rather easy to get since every rhino can do it.
>>96273183what does fewest activations even mean?
all you need to do is wound, not even get an unsaved one
flamers and phosphex get to skip hitting altogether
kraken bolters and the arcus also exist
>>96273196>what does fewest activations even mean?That there are fewer ways to activate panic
>all you need to do is wound, not even get an unsaved oneYea, thats all of them. They all work like that.
>flamers and phosphex get to skip hitting altogetherBlast templates still need to hit, but sure, flamers dont (shame theyre range:template)
>activations
outing yourself as a 40k enjoyer
>>962731353d6p2 is better than fear1 in all cases even if we ignore cool and leadership being separate stats.
For ld7
42% fail, with fear, 58% fail, with 3d6p2, 68% fail.
For Ld8
28% fail. With fear, 41% fail, With 3d6p2, 52% fail.
For Ld9
17% fail, with fear 28% fail, with 3d6p2, 36% fail.
For ld10
8% fail, with fear 17% fail, with 3d6p2, 20% fail.
>>96273198what does there being fewer ways to activate panic mean when I take 6 rapier carriers with phosphex and zero demolisher cannons?
file
md5: 98306d7b8aff28b59ad636b7b63830b5
๐
>>96273218hydra's wail does not work on Ld
>>96273133It can't be that hard to freehand an M
>>96273225"EVEN IF WE IGNORE COOL AND LEADERSHIP BEING SEPARATE STATS"
you fucking retard.
>>96273218* and the math is much further in alpha legion favor when the typical leadership upgrade is Ld9 to a Ld8 unit, but a Cool8 unit stays Cool8.
>>96273232then why did you label it Ld
why are you a liar?
>>96273231NTA but a crisl serif M would be.
>>96273133Best there is are roman numeral decals and then it's not perfect. I already looked them up wanting to do these scheme with MKII. You would have to order customs ones.
Rolled 3, 1 = 4 (2d6)
I'm VERY cool!
>>9627321040k is actions. Activations is necromunda.
>>96273275oops you've been hydra wail'd, gotta add this
Rolled 2 (1d6)
>>96273275oops,
>>96273290How's that INT working out?
>>96273275he's unflappable, relaxed, in his lane, moisturized, while the HH3 universe burns above him
>>96273325He doesn't know he's about to get turned into some dude's arms
This guy slaps your optae's ass, what do?
>>96273338that was a dragon c'tan. You know what they say, fly too high and you'll get anally fisted into a volcano until your rectum becomes Metal Hands for somebody named Metal Hands.
That's why ambition is overrated.
>>96273275Nails are biting
what the fuck was the point of this book
>>96273350it's not the only time it happened
>>96273360is there ANYTHING that space marines won't fist?!
>>96273359Teach us to always pirate GW books first, only buy them later if they're worth it
>>96273374Is this the new Valorant character?
>>96273374Wait, is that the pale spear? TF?
>>96273439what's wrong, you don't recognize Alpharius?
>>96273347Run up a steep incline and be untoucable
>>96273450that's what the teleportation devices are for
>>96273359Exemplary battles volume 2 but with new lore from scrapped other project
The only other new lore released last edition beyond siege of cthonia and one exemplary battle
I see why nobody uses ebay anymore. Literally nothing but people taking $40 primarch recasts, priming them with a black rattlecan and listing them for $90+shipping or people taking regular ones, shitty slapchop paintjob and $500.
>>96273347Is that... daddie's mace?
>>96273510his wolf coat too
>>96273502It's nothing but scalpers.
>>96273461>activate teleporter to move ten feet up>get suspended in the warp for six days before arriving a second after you left>die to intercept
>>96273347Do those Praetor weapons have special stats? Or are they just fuck-huge power maul/axe?
>>96273533I totally don't do the former on the regular.
The Toad Dragon guy from End Times nets me ~$120 profit.
>>96273576They do.
The hammer is I-3(?), S+4, D3, critical hit(6+)
The axe is S+1, Ap2, D2, reaping blow(2)
>>96273592Tamurkhan wasnt from end times.
>>96273595Ah, I'm a TOW baby so what do I know
>>96273595Honestly AXe+Hammer and a blaster on top feels like the best combo, no real reason to take the fist unless you want to save 10 points
>>96272816I was a bit worried by the BS3 on the Vultarax, but glad to hear they actually do work for the cost. I am strongly tempted to ally in a few Solar Aux lasrifle tercios, since they're 20 Line 1 models for 90 points and you can give them either Expendable 1 or a bunch of free reactions.
If I'm reading the rules correctly, you can use whichever legion auxilia you like when allying them to Mechanicum, and 4.5ppm chumps with free AL-aux Diversion reactions strike me as amazing screens.
if you play
>thousand sons
>ultramarines
>blood angels
>dark angels
>white scars
>space wolves
>talons
You are a TOURIST. GTFO OUT OF THE HERESY HOBBY.
>>96273653Yeah for the 10 pts you might as well, makes him really versatile.
Wonder what the saturnine command squad is gonna look like, right now the saturnine praetor doesn't really have a unit where he really fits in. Regular saturnine terminators don't really want to be in melee, certainly not with anything tough.
>>96273681Somebody didn't pass their cool check
>>96273693>right now the saturnine praetor doesn't really have a unit where he really fits inCatas
>>96273693He can just join catas. Though it makes transport awkward. You could also DS him with a Sattie squad as a charge dissuader, but that's a really fucking expensive one
If you are not recreating canon HH battles, GTFO.
>>96273677the las rifle leader unit buffs line up to 2, seems like the best way to camp your home objective
>>96272683There was also everything that happened in the FFG rpg settings, if you consider those canon. Also, when was Battlefleet Gothic set?
>>96273653Or for aesthetics. I think all the duel wielding builds look stupid and losing 2S and critical hit isn't *that* bad
>>96273721wow, everything you said in your post was wrong
>completed 10 man squad of plastic despoilers
>completed homebrew ruleset to play
>mfw I don't need GW anymore
self reliance is key to a vigorous life
>>96273756Yet you use GW models in a GW setting.
>>96273756>Plastic despoilers>"Self reliance"Lol. Lmao, even.
>>96273714Better roll a cool check
Has anyone assembled a reference sheet with all the various detachments?
>>96273586I CONCEDE
THE ONLY REASON I POSTAGE VOLTAGE WAS BECAUSE I'M TOO LAZY TO SHOOP IN BAJA AND IT'D PROBABLY LOOK BAD
List
md5: 8f7912c618b50836d8155c10ff94bae0
๐
First attempt at a list for 3.0. This is the first time I've ever needed to use fucking PowerPoint to build a list for a wargame.
>>96273932unironically a skill issue
>>96273932>thousand sonsNOOOOO THAT'S MY LEGION WHY ARE YOU PLAYING MY LEGION
Seriously though, after Prospero why would the depleted and dwindling thousand sons ever fight one another in the HH?
>>96273715Yeah, plus cheap artillery if you want some, and you don't really care if they get to shoot their popguns so you can always just run them up the board to stand on things. The AL Auxilia reaction is also terrifying if you get it free from Ultima Cohort - every round you can force an AT shot into your vehicles to either snap shot or waste itself on your chaff, so those Krioae get to be far safer from meltaguns deep strike or what have you.
>>96273932>>96273948Im making a list for my TS as well lmao. Debating a warmonger and 10 Tartaros Termis but the risk of getting stunned from intercept is making me apprehensive. Its already a subpar combo but I refuse to sue a spartan.
I want to use the new rapier crew to make an augur squad but that leaves me with no crew. I was thinking of doing it like the LI rapiers and make some using the standard tacticals with boltguns and some scanners from the melee weapons and tank commander bits I have left. I can just use spare nuncio voxes for the backpack signums but is there anywhere I could get the proper bits for them? Stls are fine.
So Im just now getting into HH (and damn did I choose the wrong time, evidently). But I was able to pick up a Saturnine box, but now Im kind of struggline to pick how I want to build it, and would welcome your opinions.
Im buillding loyalist Sons of Horus (as Luna Wolves). Id like to start with the tactical squads. I have 40, and can give up to 20 of them disintegrator weapons.
On the 20 with bolters:
1. Are bayonets worth it? Id like to add them because it suits their flavor, and it would give them the edge on other tactical squads in melee.
2. If they are worth it, should I keep going up to chain baynets?
3. Are banestrike bolters worth taking over the regular ones?
On the disintegrators:
1. For a SoH army, is the upgrade more useful than bolters?
2. What are the appropriate targets for these weapons? Vehicles? Infantry?
3. Should i add the 2 heavy disintegrators? Im leaning towards "no" at the moment, but if theyre critical to making the squad work as intended, I can be persuaded.
>>96273871I'm aware of where this is from
>>96274013Thats exactly what I did. Used bog standard tacs with a support shoulder icon. I dont know why the crew went super high tech suddenly for plastic. They look out of place anyway.
>>96273133you can print you could look in cults for some pauldrons with 3d icons. Look for OHM
>have a cool power axe
>isn't really useful on most characters
>only thing a techmarine can take
>I don't have use for a techmarine
>>96274046Put on whoever you want. If their feathers get ruffled from a power axe then they aren't worth playing.
>>96274046>I don't have use for a techmarineYou have no vehicles or dreads in your list?
>>96274015Start of a new edition is the best time to get into the game, you'll be learning how it works alongside everyone else rather than get stomped by more experienced players by default.
>20 boltersBayonets aren't really worth it.
Banestrike bolters can only be taken by seekers, veteran tacticals and such. They're alright, but not amazing.
>DisintegratorsRather niche weapons. Can only be taken by veteran tactical squads and praetorian command squads. Disintegrator rifles are only efficient against models with 2 wounds and a 3+ armour save. The heavy and disintegrator blaster are alright against terminators, but work better taken on veteran support squads from the legacies rules because every model can take them rather than 1 in 5
>>96274062I have a drop pod and a storm eagle so far.
>>96274046>Model axe>Call it a paragon blade>This is supported by the rules as Loken's chainsword counts as a paragon blade
>>96274069Man.
>Storm eagleFuck I read stormbird. That's more reasonable.
How can I make custom plates like these without painting them from scratch? (Can't draw for shit) I want to go organization hyper autismus for my dudes.
>>96274079the annoying part is the bullshit where Loken's chainsword is described as just a regular chainsword with no magical teeth.
Not even a frostblade (magical ice teeth or kraken tyranid rending claw teeth) or mica-dragon teeth like world eater relic chainswords or xenos-blade stuff.
Is it Isstvan or Istvaan? I keep seeing both in official material.
>>96274121that's just the HH game still being held back by the ruleset originally being a WW2 wargame before 3rd ed 40k.
Characters needing special wargear to be more killy is a crutch and a left over from that
Why would thousand sons...fight thousand sons???
>>96274165>GIMME YOUR BOOKS!>NO, THE ARCANE TESTICLEZ TORSION TWISTER PAHALANX SPELL I MINEEt cetra
>>96274158Constantinople, you animal.
>>96274165One side is alpha legion. Problem solved.
>>96274177But that's post-heresy.
>>96274152I can't follow your logic.
>>96274180No it's Istanbul
>>96274063I see. So Id be better off just building them with plain bolters until I get enough heavy disintegrators for a full legacy squad.
I believe I can make one vetern squad from the box, any reccomendations fpr them as far as gear?
Banestrike has been coming up a lot this thread so I wanted to ask something I've always wondered about.
What are banestrike bolts? Do they incorporate xenos tech? Do they give up the explosive charge of a regular bolt for a heavier armor penetrating core? Do they have tiny krak charges at the tip?
>>96274193It the lore, Loken with a chainsword is just as dangerous than Abbadon with terminaror armour and a power sword + power fist.
The ruleset stats do not have the granularity to show this, so it needs to add "paragon" weapons more killy than the normal versions to compensate, when in reality it should be linked to the character itself.
>>96274152No, the books themselves are the source of the problem. Loken should not be able to kill someone in terminator armor with a basic chainsword, just BL writers are talentless retards so they don't know anything about 40k weapons.
>>96274215all the books say is "alpha legion developed these in secret before the heresy began specifically designed to kill space marines"
Never seen any other detail about it. They shared some of the ammo with Sons of Horus, nobody else that I've heard of.
>>96274223>the lore, Loken with a chainsword is just as dangerous than Abbadon with terminaror armour and a power sword + power fist.No?
>>96274226Terminator armour still has softer joints and other weak points.
>>96274226>Loken should not be able to kill someone in terminator armor with a basic chainswordOnly if they don't wear a helmet and thankfully abadabadoo is too much of a fucking idiot to wear one.
Tangential but I'm reading false gods right now and they say Abaddon is too fat to wear terminator armour which is hilarious.
>>96274240now compare the reach when the guy with a power sword can just slap the chainsword to destroy it and the other guy has to pass his sword, pass his hand, then go all the way to the elbow and hit it sideways instead of the terminator just turning sideways and chopping loken in half.
Loken is at 3 feet reach disadvantage vs a real weapon.
The lore is complete bullshit.
>>96274204For veteran tactical squads you can either stick with bolters, give them banestrike bolters, or a combi-weapon depending on what role you want them to fill. With combi-meltas they can nuke a vehicle or walker once per game for example. After that they can just sit on an objective to shoot their bolters.
You can also turn them into a praetorian or centurion command squad. Get some melee weapons, like from the melee weapons kit, give them a bunch of thunder hammers or power fists and combat shields, and go beat up terminators. Or give them all lightning claws if you want to see 20 man tactical squads disappear in one assault phase. But regular power weapons are already good enough to kill anything with a 3+ save honestly.
>>96274215iirc Banestrike bolts use a more volatile explosive and propellant that has increased wear on the weapon when fired, less propellant in favour of more explosive charge (which reduces the max range) all to increase the chance of busting through power armour.
>>962742401/6th of a Terminator suit is paper.
>>96274338They're generally plastic, actually.
>>96274362Plasteel, achtually.
I got the Emperor's children tartatos praetor because I wanted a heavy looking guy for an armistos conversion but there's more filligre than I was expecting. Does anyone use any kind of filler putty they can recommend?
>>96274362>metal terminator: 2++ save>plastic terminator: 2+ save>resin terminator: 3+ save
>>96274391pewter is indestructible, I've had models fall in a parking lot and get run over by cars and the one-piece pewter Eldar scouts were mostly undamaged.
>>96274405There's a reason we had way less WAACfags when the metal dread sock was still a thing.
>>96274405I dropped a grand cruiser once and the prow antenna actually penetrated the hardwood.
>>96274413Some us just clubbed them to death with our hardback 800+ page rulebooks.
>>96274288Awesome. That brings me to the second part, terminators.
As per the box, of course, I have 6 and a praetor. Im thinking of doing 2 3-man squads. One squad being melee oriented with the fist +particle shredder, and the twin heavy disintegrator plus the praetor with axe and deepstrike. The other squad, I was considering doing dual plasma bombards for heavy fire support.
Do those choices sound resonable? If my melee squad has particle shredders, should I take the hammer on the praetor instead? (Also, the overload 2 worries me. How impactful would that be on saturnine terminators?)
>>96274413I feel like there were less unpainted armies too. Casuals will set down grey and because it's super Matte Finish, they can see the 3d details and it doesnt bother their eyes.
gleaming pewter miniatures instantly stand out above the board and are so bright and metallic that you can't see all the details until you've primed and painted them up, so more people actually brought painted armies.
>>96274423it got so out of hand that GW had to include Whippy Sticks in every starter set for whipping the opponent with twenty lashings for every faux pass.
>get Magnus as my first primarch
Okay, thought he'd be a bit taller but that's a tolerable size
>find out the other primarchs are half his size
They're selling primaris-sized marines for $155 each? Wtf.
How many Destroyers are you planning to run, Sons of Olympia?
>>96274418Don't doubt it for a second. That pewter mix was so indestructible my hands are covered in scars from the hobby knife slipping when having to press on it with 300 pounds of force because pewter is made out of tank armor.
>>96274455Any particular reason? Assault ones seem pretty good with Volkite.
>>96274425The overload does hurt, but it's worth it with the damage those twin heavy disintegrators can do to terminators.
A squad with dual plasma bombards looks like a decent mid field fire support unit. With their thermal diffraction field the overload barely tickles them, and blast are scary accurate now.
We will be getting rules for saturnine command squads in the next tactica journal, those might be interesting for the saturnine praetor to join too. As SoH you can also put that praetor in a justaerin terminator squad and have them wreck anything in close combat.
The thing with standard saturnine terminators is that they are rather mediocre in melee, as they only have 2 attacks and WS 4. Their shooting damage is way better. But deep striking them with the praetor is still fine until you can get a better melee unit to put him in.
>>96274457I love metal models, there's something about the weight that just feels good.
But then I remember the metal demon prince. Or what was possibly the worst model ever conceived by man, the metal fucking gargoyles.
Holy shit those were actually the most ass things to put together, and fell over and exploded at every opportunity.
Luv me metal space marine veterans though.
>>96274457Models with swords or spikes could actually draw blood. My rolls just haven't been the same since.
>>96274471Metal characters or infantry were great, but the more pieces something was the worse it got.
Metal grand cruisers from bfg were agony to assemble properly but damn it they weren't beautiful ships.
>>96274480worth it though for spears that stay perfectly straight even in a hot car instead of flopping and bending.
>>96274466Ill definitely look into getting some Justaerin. Ive heard tje Saturnine are rather lackluster in melee. Im hoping the legion trait helps out a little until I can upgrade them. If Im reading this correctly, due to "Implacable Advance", the twin heavy disintegrators gain "Assault", so I get full BS on a charge with them. Im just sad I cant charge out of a deep strike.
>>96274446Warhammer fans' brains break when they see primarchs. GW will do the most heinous shit to the setting and the vast majority of the fanbase will be okay with it because "WAOWWW! PRIMARCHS!!!"
>>96274507yeah I only grabbed Magnus since he was 50% off NIB on ebay and at that price if I dont want him I can get all my money back ez.
Would need to be in an absolute cult to pay the list price.
Waiting on 6 of the $40-50 recasts for the rest of the funky bunch, at that price they're fun to paint and I can just resell if I dont want them.
>>96274165Nothing in the universe is more valuable to Thousand Sons than books with magic spells in them.
Guy A: Sweet I have the spell of eternal life in this book.
Guy B: That's great, let me see that!
Guy A: No, this is worth a fortune, it's mine.
Instant thousand sons vs thousand sons warfare.
Lives are expendable compared to knowledge which is priceless.
>>96274446What if I told you the primarch models are way too large when compared to the scale of marines in HH?
But yes, GW/FW resin models are absurdly overpriced, in other news dark angels are gay.
Wait, can you only take non-lascannon sponsons on Spartans? The Proteus is locked to lascannons?
Fuck off.
>>96274563if you said that then I'd know you are a mental retard. Primarchs are undersized compared to their actual lore sizes.
Both artwork and descriptions have primarchs absolutely tower over their men and are forced to crouch to enter their rooms and primarchs have to have special areas of the ship large enough to move without being inconvenienced (Fulgrim has his whole ship raised to allow a primarch to not have to kneel because his vanity)
>>96274391>metal terminator3+ on 2d6
>>96274584Ah yes, the artwork. Such a reliable source of actual sizes, specially the one where the Emperor sitting on the golden throne is approximately the size of a warhound titan.
Early descriptions put primarchs at around the height of a terminator, some a bit taller. Everything else was written after FW started selling the primarch models, which are in heroic scale, meaning FW made them too large on purpose to make them stand out more on the tabletop. Then the BL writers saw those models, and, being the hacks that they are, went hurr durr primarch must be size of contemptor dreadnoughts for realz!
>>96274579Remember that the quad HB Prometheus was featured in several Black Books but never got rules. GW couldn't even make Legacy rules for a quad lascannon Proteus despite everything necessary for such a conversion being in the normal kit. Truly the W in both FW and GW stands for ze jeW.
>>96274615"A throne built for a primarchโs stature, punctured twice through the seat back by bolt-rounds, began toppling onto the Lord of Ultramar."
"Then he wrenched sideways with his left hand, flinging the dead man aside like a doll. The motion left the gladius drawn in Guillimanโs bare right hand. Scaled to the primarch, the short sword seemed little more than a large combat knife."
You're a stupid faggot and your cope does nothing but embarrass you. They're called massive giants who tower above other space marines thousands of times across the entirety of 50 years of lore.
>>96274604>negated by AP3Oof...
>>96274615A figure looked up from a stone table at the roomโs centre. He was tall, taller even than the golden giant, but with a bulk that was perfectly proportioned to his size. Power flowed through his smallest movement. He wore black robes edged with white fur. Dark eyes glittered in an unsmiling face of hard edges beneath a shock of white-blond hair. Strength spread from his gaze like furnace heat. Kye had never felt anything like it before: not running into the gunfire of rival gangs, not in the time he had strayed into the grounds of the rust-cats, or leapt a crevasse.
โWhat...โ began Kye, the question catching on his tongue. โWhat are you?โ
The golden giant began to growl a rebuke, but a glance from the figure silenced the words.
โWhat I am is a matter that I am still coming to understand, but who I am is a question I can answer. My name is Rogal, of the House of Dorn.โ
...
Dorn kept his eyes on this newest figure. At a glance Archamus could tell that all three of them were shorter than Dorn, but taller than himself โ very large for legionaries, but within a blurred zone of size that made it difficult to judge whether they were legionary or primarch. There were differences, though: tiny variations in stance and posture that would have been lost to a normal human eye. The one on the throne was the largest, and his armour and demeanour screamed that this was a lord of the Alpha Legion... But there was something too blunt about that picture. Archamus had had a fleeting impression of a slight restriction in the way he moved, as though the figure were as much armour and machine as flesh.
>>96273439We wuz Alpharius nโshieeeeet
>>96274631Why do you want to turn 40k into primarch-centered capeshit? Why do you hate 40k?
>>96273439the lore is that the basketball-american Alpha Legionary broke into an Inquisition storage facility and stole it, as was his specialty.
And since he possesses Alpharius spear, "I am da captain now!"
>>96274689>turn 40k intoAlways has been. Always will be. Since before you were born.
>>96273374>"alpha legionnaires have their faces surgically altered to resemble alpharius">black alpha legionnaireDid he fucking mutate into a black guy in the Eye of Terror?
>>96274703We're gonna kill you, 10th edition fag.
Do the individual Saturine Kits come out this Saturday? Or do pre-orders usually take longer?
>>96274712it's part of the blackrock-funded DEI period of GW's history. There's no longer any reasons for anything they do with skin color or gender.
>>96274434Good thing that was all they were ever used for, it took 20 years before someone actually noticed how hilariously inaccurate they were.
>>96274584>Primarch Vinculus McMahon proclaiming that THIS SANGWINNUS... IS THE FOOOTURE OF WRASSLING!
>>96269219Itโs fucking insulting, nothing you say can smooth over GWโs greedy bullshit.
Redditor corpo worshipper.
>>96274626Will GW ever make a MTO of the black books? I'm not paying scalper money.
>>96274165>Was Nikaea right or wrong?Especially in 3.0 where Arcana are optional, you can have non-sorcerer latent psyker TS vs sorcerous TS
>was Prospero Magnus' fault or not?Remember, Magnus, hid the approach of the Wolves from everyone. Tizca might have been spared if he had gone forward himself. But instead he skulked in his room.
>should Magnus have acted sooner or at all?Magnus decided to be all mopey until the last second, then used blatant sorcery to throw what was left of Tizca's defenders into Hell.
>>96274742I thought that has always been common knowledge. As was the fact you could put them in the microwave to make them even longer.
>>96274742Like loaded dice, if both sizes are using the same items, what difference does it make?
>>96274813It is wrong because I do not consent :^)
>>96274778Have they ever made MtO rule books?
>>96274813it makes a big difference when charge distances actually matter.
If two deployment zones are supposed to be 24" apart and your units are supposed to be impossible to charge each other turn 1, but due to absolutely fucked up whippy sticks they get the distances for each player wrong by 2 inches, then you can instantly break the missions GW designed despite both using the same ruler.
>>96274818lets just call it consentual non consent
Are blackshield players the true chads of the Heresy?
>>96274827If you measure the 24" between deployment zones with the same wonky stick, then it's equally increased, making 1st turn charges impossible.
>>96274851The true suckers, more like
>>96274851Only if they modeled pariah armor and bolters
>>96274867>modeling pariah armor>none of the kino artwork features pariah armorewwww.
>>96274851Blackshield players are the 40k refugees that refuse to commit. They're just like the "illegal aliens" that keep using their native language and customs.
>>96274867That's what the MkI kit will be for.
Would you guys say the game is easier or harder to get into with the new edition? I like the Heresy aesthetic, but a serious list seems like a pretty crazy project.
>>96274902>40k refugeesHow? Are blackshields players using primaris marines?
>>96274820They did MTO the Rogue Trader rulebook. I got one. It's amazing. Kinda unplayable without the armylists though.
>>96274941Won't committ to real legions and just want to make their gay OC donuts
>>96274857unfortunately you're not at all correct. To make it easier to visualize, pretend the ruler is 24" long but has marks for 12".
I'm expecting to deploy on my 12", opponent will deploy 12" from his board edge, then there's 24" between us and one guy moves.
Using my inflation ruler, I'm actually 24" from the board edge, opponent deploys 24" from his board edge, our deployment zones would literally be touching. And if I want to charge 10", I'd actually be moving 20" forwards (now 44 inches from my board edge instead of what should be 22 inches, and my enemy is 12 inches closer so 34 inches total error just from having a ruler that's 12" longer than the markings)
Now the real marker might only be 3-5 inches too long instead of 12 inches too long, but the exact same problem occurs. People will use it during deployment and movement without counting every time the error gets added (deployment, movement, charging, pursuit) and since it's not 1 measurement but several measurements taking place, the error compounds multiple times.
If the whippy stick is 10% too long but your physical table doesn't get 10% wider, you're going to have immediate issues.
>>96274932I would say that the 3.0 box is not as good a foundation as the 2.0 box
Hey, is it me, or are Vet Breachers with max Lascutters actually pretty good against AV14? ESPECIALLY if the Land Raider fucks up and let's them get into combat?
Hell, you could put them in with a Warmonger and just have them teleport down, unload 4 Str10 D2 shots at close range and see if that does the job.
5+ Invulnerable and 2W does make them somewhat hard to easily shift afterwards as well.
>>96274970>Your Dudes is "gay oc donutsteel" nowHoly shit, go back to 40k if you're gonna shill GW's erasure of Your Dudes, faggot.
>>96274941Blackshields have been using their 40k marines to play HH since before pr*maris marines were even a thing. All painted in OC chapter colours of course, so they could use whatever chapter had the best rules at that time.
>>96274932I mean, the new starter set is overpriced compared to the old one, has some baffling dumb inclusions compared to the old one, was improperly packed and therefore quite a few of them will be badly damaged on arrival, unlike the old one. Has completely bifurcated the online community... not unlike the old edition but nowhere NEAR on this scale.
The rulebook reads like it was written in chatGPT, the old playerbase is still upset, even with the Legacies bringing back OBVIOUSLY far more than was originally intended, and finding games with 2.0 players who have armies will be difficult as a result...
Listbuilding is easier now though, you just sort of take more or less... whatever, and usually if you've taken enough command and high command choices you can probably squeeze everything in.
>>96274974>measuring from the table edge to set the deployment zone, rather than measuring from the center of the table to set the 24" between deployments zonesYou fucked up, assuming the table itself to be exactly 48" in width to begin with.
5 or 10 man Assault Destroyers with Volkite?
10 man looks like a lot of shots, especially if they live long enough to actually benefit from Firestorm, but a 5 man dropping in and throwing Rad Grenades at a target might be better.
>>96274932Rules-wise I'd say it is easier. Reading the rules seems to be problematic for certain people I blame the increasing rates of illiteracy but once you understand them they're a lot more streamlined than older editions. No more five different types of special rules to deal with melee weapons making models attack at a different initiative for example, that is now baked into the weapon profile. All units also appear to be relatively well balanced, so you no longer have the risk of buying a unit you think looks cool only to find out its rules are so bad you're better off not bringing it and just playing with less points than your opponent.
>>96274984it's only you.
4 lascutters vs AV14 is 5 wounds if he doesnt pop smoke, but he should simply pop smoke then it's essentially 3.5 average wounds. For 385+ points.
And warmonger's entire unit is Suppressed before they shoot if interceptor deals any unsaved wound to them.
Hitting on 5+ because of suppressed the lascutters deal 2.65 wounds vs no smoke and 1.76 if it pops smoke.
Neither situation (him popping smoke or him using Interceptor on the warmonger's breachers) is worth the 385 points. A kratos for 365 points has 10 hull points and you're very likely losing your entire squad to deal 2 or 4 of its 10 wounds which it can heal instantly next turn using a 130 point character.
>>96274851Blackshields were created by Alan Bligh as a cool way for HH players to have Your Dudes armies that don't fit the mold of the legions. Neat little idea.
Unfortunately, the idea was seized upon by 40kfags, who used blackshield rules to play HH with their 40k minis. It was disgusting, and Bligh wept.
Yet a small number of players remain who paint and collect trve HH appropriate Blackshields...but you must seek them out.
>>96275056I need mkV in plastic by yesterday.
>>96274984trying to imagine any use for it, like if it could hit the AV12 rear armor of a tank with an AV14 front, such as Glaive super-heavy. Provided they dont get suppressed, the 4 lascutters would put 9 of the 18 hull points onto a Glaive's AV12 rear if it doesn't smoke because he's out of reactions for some reason (unlikely) - and only 6 of 18 if it smokes. And worse if anyone Interceptors it.
Though even then, an almost impossibly pro-breacher situation... the enemy is told before the game starts that you have the warmonger and the unit of vet breachers in reserve off the board waiting to deepstrike behind his tanks, so he'd actually just park the back of the tank against the edge of the universe and place another shooty squad nearby to use Intercept to ruin your DS squad if they come down.
So yeah.. deepstrike breachers are not an actual thing. Too expensive and too unreliable with warmonger's weakness.
>>96275056Look at that subtle off-white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my god. It even has a weathered transfer.
>>96274981>>96275015I see, I think Iโll stick to painting projects for the moment. Maybe Iโll even buy a resin kit for a special sculpt.
>>96275028Iโm not a speedy boy when it comes to painting, I think Iโll have the time if I ever decide to play the game.
>>96275023if you instead have a stick that's twice too long and use it for the center-to-center and movement, the enemy is forced to deploy too close to you and has no space to run backwards as his deployment zone would be say 6-8 real inches from the edge of the board because the stick fucked up the center of the table. And when he uses his abnormally-long-stick to move forward and uses his abnormally-long-stick to declare a charge, he'll be zooming into your deployment zone abnormally fast as your shooty army instantly runs out of places to move backwards.
So no, you done fucked up the second you had the retarded idea of using a whippy stick at all.
>>96273014Guy, guy, all of that is true indeed. AL are good. I'm just saying:
1. I don't trust banestrike shotguns as reliable, even if the Effrit wielding them are (Hydra's Wail).
2. You have to find a task for the Saboteur, where it felt easier and more natural in previous editions.
3. Power knives themselves are okay. Power knives using up a main weapon's slot isn't as okay.
Idk how prevalent Precision is going to be, so I can't really comment on their unique reaction.
>>96274932saturnine box is worse than getting into HH2.
Both had basic tactical marines, no difference there.
Saturnine terminators are much more hit-or-miss with stupid weapons and situational uses.
Dread too, I believe. Sidegrade at best.
The disintegrator gun upgrades are very niche and unreliable, a bad choice for a starter box (someone should only buy disintegrators when specifically needing them)
The stationary turret is a horrible choice for a starter box, if you just have one on the board you set it in one spot and it's either ignored all game long or enemy brings some counter to it. And some benefit vs flyers is irrelevant, less than 1% of players ever use flyers and that's 0% of starter players.
Foot characters are passable, I guess.
Zero transports in the box in a transport-based edition.
No melee squads.
Zero anti-tank total.
Since you have a painting backlog, definitely just do that. Saturnine was such a flop that it's gone as low as 45% off already in the U.K. where they're already 40% cheaper than in U.S. before the extra discounts (a store is selling 2 to brits for 155+77 so 116 pounds each)
It's not a FOMO box, there's no chance GW doesn't print a second wave of boxes to send out hoping to get more profit from FLGS worldwide. When that wave hits, worldwide prices should crater hard like Dominion (which I picked up in US for $99, no idea what its real price is)
page 8 time to evacuate
>>96275194blackshields welcome
>>96275194pay your taxes though
Power / artificer armour power sword dudes seem kinda bad. Granted, power swords in general don't seem great. But I'm struggling to see a way to make decent foot vets / retinue with swords. If only I played imperial fists, I guess.
>>962751681. Banestrike shotguns are reliable enough against the main target Effrit should go after: MEQ infantry or weaker. They're a bully unit.
2. Nobody was using the saboteur in 2.0 either except me The new false colours rule actually made him better at being a distraction carrnifex, and now does prevent overwatch (and volley)
>Power daggers never were a main weapon, always a cheap way to get +1 attack from 2 CCW. It got even better as cheap sergeant equipment, +2 initiative means they'll attack before most characters. And it combo's surprisingly well with the AL gambit:>Set enemy initiative to 1>Pick finishing blow>Guaranteed to go first>Attack with a breaching 5+ damage 2 butter knife and steal their kidneys
>>96275234finishing blow is a gambit. You can't use 2 gambits, so that's not a thing.
>>96275125Yeah, and if you play on a tables that, say, 1m across, you got the same issue using an accurate ruler. Even GW sells gaming mats that are not the King's 72x48" in size. You can come up with all sorts of scenarios on how things are not exactly like "intended" and all I can tell you is, "tough shit, life isn't fair."
>>96275056>have Your Dudes armies that don't fit the mold of the legions>posts image of warband written by GW Uh huh
>>96275182Admittedly, as. New player, I think tjere are some merits to the box that dont get as much light. You do get a bunch of tactical squads, but if youre new, you need them. While they may be mid, I appreciate the Saturnine units. By being a very elite choice, they help put a lot of points down, which helps me achieve a fieldable force faster. Now the turret is a straight stinker, but GW cant help themselves for whatever reason.
![[UNSET]](/images/tg/1754595569684976.jpg)
