Thread 96268995

Invited to Dine at The Poop Palace Edition

>What is Trench Crusade?
An alternate weird history 28mm/32mm tabletop skirmish game still in a pre-release playtesting phase but with the full release slated for this year. Based on the art and lore of Mike Franchina, whose illustrations you may have seen floating around on /tg/ for a several years now, and designed by Tuomas Pirinen, one of the original creators of Mordheim. It's grimdark, it's visceral, it's awesome, and it's very Blanchitsu.

>What Trench Crusade is not
TC not an excuse for you to discuss IRL religion, history that didn't occur in the game, culture war shit, or discord bullshit on /tg/. Keep it on topic.

>What's the QRD on the background?
The Knights Templar turned heretic and opened the Gates of Hell when they took Jerusalem during the First Crusade. Over 800 years later the war is still ongoing as technology has developed to a pseudo diesel-punk WW1 standard and a third of Humanity has sided with the Infernal Princes.

>How do I get started?
All the files are free online, but are split between the website and the discord. They have all been collected here for your convenience:
https://mega.nz/folder/70QH0BBa#Eg-blxYQKkY_C02wErnFTQ

>third party sources for making trenchers:
https://pastebin.com/YzXPVUAc

>Trench Compendium
Compendium: https://trenchcompendium.netlify.app/
Feedback Form: https://forms.gle/k44MxmJxWu3upDHT8

>Previous thread:
>>96168498

>Thread Question:
What's the latest thing you've done that /trench/ related?

Honestly they missed out by not having a Protestantized colonized west to draw inspiration from. Pentecostal militias and Evangelical theocracies are all stuff that already exists today and Pilgrims and Puritans in gas masks makes for a fun aesthetic too.

>>96269046
Instead of the European Wars of Religion, they had the Wars of Tricalvanism (1215-1306) in their place, millions dying over religious disputes, and the end result being the church becoming the Syncretic Church, the tl;dr of that being that they don't care how you worship and the peculiarities of your practices, as long as you worship God and no one else.

>>96268995 (OP)
>kickstarter book still hasn't arrived.
Should I be worried?

>>96269212
Let's be honest, this series is going to be DOA.

>>96269212
No, they said the book will be delivered last, after the 1.0 release (which is the next rule release), and then some to collect some feedback on layout, spelling, rule clarity, etc, so the book won’t be out of date when printed and shipped.

>>96269271
>Let's be honest, this series is going to be DOA.
don't really want TC to be DOA.
Wouldn't be the first time I got into something that turned out to be DOA.
First one was the Lego Universe MMO. I still have the box as a lesson I think I've forgotten now. I might keep the Trench Crusade book as a "novelty item with a lesson" if that makes sense. If it turns out to be DOA.

>>96269294
>1.0 release
How are the beta rules as they are compared to Mordheim at the moment? I can't imagine that the 1.0 rules will be that much different unless there is a massive overhaul.

>muh where's the book
>for the Nth time
>people still respond to the obvious bait every time

>>96269703
To give him the benefit of the doubt, it has been a while since the kickstarter and generally I think after this much time has passed I think some concern is understandable.
We're probably going to see more posts like this unless there is a kickstarter FAQ in the TC Discord server from different anons.

I've been wondering. Where do heretic death commandos get their pure hearts for their stealth generators. My headcanon is that its the child's own heart, which is removed before training corrupts them.

>>96269046
>protenstants
>aesthetics
pffffffffffttt hee hee hoo ha

>>96269797
It’s probably part of their final training to sneak into a holy site and nab one, probably from a child like you suggest, but also a particularly pious nun, priest, or even minor living saint. Hell, they might compete with Court over the saint farming.

>possibly one of the best inspirations you could use for trench crusade
>nobody has done anything with it

but why

>>96269947
Yes

>>96271155
You're really not being convincing, especially not when Catholic and Orthodox art is in the frame.

>>96271168
That’s a Protestant

>>96271175
I meant in the frame of the dialogue, comparatively speaking, not your image in particular.
Basically, protestant designs offer nothing to TC other than
>uhh, more minimalism and less gibbuns
which is probably the exact opposite of what 99% of people consuming Faithful miniatures want. People want macabre Christians to have proper attributes, not LESS of them.

>>96271155
>>96271168
>>96271175
>>96271195
Oh for the love of god, fuck off to /his/ if you want to argue Protestant fashions or lack thereof.

>>96271195
Depends on the style you’re going for. If you want more of a minimalist Death Korp style look then Protestantism tends to be less ostentatious for the more gritty feel.

Honestly, I think Martin Luther would have been a war prophet in the TC universe, instead of being a prophet.

>>96269712
Anyone who actually backed would just read any of the regular updates. Asking here is bait. Simple as.

TC's going to be a NOVA, if any Burgerstani's here are going snap some pics. Their tables always look cool.

Great job on the v2, Compendium-anon.

>>96275955
Thanks man, glad people are liking it. Other than an odd issue with selections all the bug reports are minor things like forgetting a keyword or putting a 1 instead of 2.

Managed to get over 1500 accounts in a week, and like 5k warbands in total last I checked.

Relatedly, whoever it making the generals should probably change the url to trench-companion dot com rather than the compendium. In a few months we'll be properly dropping the compendium.

Discord's down for 'maintenance'. Wonder if that means we're close to 1.0 release.

>>96272423
Sorry about that. I didn't know it was common bait nowadays. I'm just worried and I checked the Kickstarter and there is an update.
TC Discord lads should add Kickstarter FAQ to the Discord server.

>>96277781
iirc 1.0 hardcovers are projected to go to final print in late august/early september so it checks out.

>>96271155
Are you trying to argue that a guy wearing black plate armour is the "Protestant aesthetic"? Because I can promise you that exists else where

>>96278471
nta, but "plain" would describe the protestant aesthetic and I'm certain it's the one Jesus would have preferred instead of trying in vain to emulate the kingdom of God.

>>96271211
>Religion, In MY Trench Crusade thread?
>It's more common than you think

>>96271214
This.

>>96271293
He can nail his thesis to a heretics face

>>96278509
>nta, but "plain" would describe the protestant aesthetic

So not having an aesthetic is the Protestant aesthetic?

>>96278603
Not that anon but yes, exactly. Protestantism is all about working hard, simple living and abstaining from excessive displays of wealth.
Only protestant sub-genre that would fit in would be the Adamites, which another anon did stat up as a Trench pilgrim sub-faction a few thread back

>>96278603
Ehhh, thats like saying Americans dont have an accent, protestants just all black, on everything, from regular clothes to armour, it had to be black and plain with no detailing or flair.

The concept is that oppulent apperances was considered an attempt to rival god and heaven, so instead turned to darker colors and "plain" aesthetics. Instead of priests wearing gold embroidered white cloth with a fancy cross inlaid with jewels and a necklace of red rubies, they opted for black, with no furnishings or jewelry, and wooden crosses. The abscence of flourish IS the aesthetic.

After being absolutely burnt out by Kill Team and the fact that it's literally impossible to explain the rules to new people without them shitting their pants for the 50k things you have to check and cross reference, I'm astounded how easy it was to convince 3 people to play Trench. The art it's extremely catchy, the lore is borderline absurd and the rules are a breeze to digest for noobs of tabletops. Also 2 of them have resin printer so it's so easy to go for cheap proxies that match ones tastes. For now we have: Me with New Antioch (Spanish inquisition/conquistadores proxies just arrived from the Kickstarter) and HL Knights of Avarice, one friend chose HL Naval raiding party and the other Pilgrims. One is still reading the lore.

What is this magic? I had more success in a few weeks of proposing TC than years of shilling KT since the 2018 edition

Anyone had similar exp?

>>96278811
Less daunting, I think, with the lore, and the rules are fairly simply until you get in unit/item specifics.
Add to that, games will go pretty damn fast, unless everyone's dice suck.
You do not have the baggage of 40k tying you down, and you can explain the basic rules in less than 10 minutes.

>>96278709
>Ehhh, thats like saying Americans dont have an accent, protestants just all black, on everything, from regular clothes to armour, it had to be black and plain with no detailing or flair.


Well no americans certainly have an accent you can point as unique to them (well a few different accents actually). "All black" however isn't a defining characteristic as many subcultures heavily utilize black and dark colors. Aside from that simply lacking in ornamentation isn't unique either as many subcultures utilize plain or mundane clothing within them.

Just compare all that you're saying to picrel. Does a cassock not also have all the qualities you describe despite being being used as daily wear of roman catholic clergy?

>>96278640
So considering this I think it's pretty obvious why the setting focused on overt, over the top aesthetics didn't include a faction that lacked one.

why do the missions have to be so dogshit I love everything else

>>96280582
You didnt post an image but I dont need it to say no. Im not saying "if you wear all black you are using protestant aesthetics", all black and "boring" is just something protestants aimed for, but this fashion wasnt unique to them. The idea being that they wanted to "dress down", because oppulence was considered a sin and that came to mean colorful fancy clothes and jewelry, and was in contrast to the church/catholicism at the time that was all gold and all about spledour.
>We are incarnated in our bodies, and we express ourselves in our clothes. Garments do not hide us: they clothe us.
Remember, these guys are precurssors to puritans, the most boring cunts in christianity. If you wanted to make a warband for example, they would wear very plain black outfits with white collars and everyone would dress the same with very little deviation.

>>96278603
>>96278709
When I think of Protestant-derived religions I usually think of plainfolk; their style is defined by whatever you can make with cottage industry.

>>96280590
>You can't make Protestant aesthetic over-the-top
Behold, my neophyte

>erm.....this religion would ackshually look like this and NOT like that idea you have
>guise wouldnt be feckin schweet if they added this religion and nation to the lore
>TUOMAS EXPLAIN/EXPAND ON THIS LORE TO US PLEASE
why is this 95% of the trench crusade community? where's the fucking game at?

>>96281888
It’s summer, plus we’ve always been flooded with shitposters and derailers.

islam would be much better as an adoptionist heresy
but noooo, I must copy the jews more and be ABSOLUTE monotheist with beyond your compression™ God instead
t. born muslim

>>96269271
What does DOA mean?

>>96268995 (OP)
Is this official art?

>>96283397
Yes.

>>96283390
Devil Out Ass

>>96283390
Does only anal

>>96283390
Dildos Oiled Acceptably

>>96283390
Devils owning angels

>>96283402
It is disgusting... The laziest illustration I have ever seen for a product...

>>96281888
Because most aren't actually playing

>>96281888
>The funniest part of the game is kitbashing/sculpting your own personal warband based on the lore
>How dare you ask about the lore!

>>96268995 (OP)
dice+2d6
Why did they deleted almost everything in their discord?

>>96281867
That's not protestant, that's just taking tents and covered wagons and applying them to architecture.

>>96280874
Sorry it didn't include the pic for some reason

>all black and "boring" is just something protestants aimed for, but this fashion wasnt unique to them.

Okay well if it isn't unique to them you can't claim it as a unique aesthetic lol.

>they would wear very plain black outfits with white collars and everyone would dress the same with very little deviation.

So like catholic clergymen?

>>96281867
What happens when there's a thunderstorm?

>>96283390
Devil Oay Ary

>>96283724
Again, Im not saying "wearing black means youre dressing like a protestant", that is reductive and you know it. Im saying that other sects wore something other than black where protestants made a point of ONLY wearing black.
>but other people wore black hats and had black clothes
Yes, and protestants ONLY had black hats and black clothes. Like if you were to make a faction for this game based on protestants, it would not look right if they were wearing red robes with introcate gold detailing with a big purple raiment with a golden helmet, if you had a guy just wearing all black robes it would look like a generic benedictine monk, which was what the protestants were trying to evoke, and would be far more appropriate.

You could do a zealot faction that is just guys in black suits wearing floppy hats, all wearing the same attire, they wouldnt wear images of christ and the cross would only be something simple.

>>96283665
Probably reconfiguring it for the 1.0 release.

>>96269105
>Syncretic Church, the tl;dr of that being that they don't care how you worship and the peculiarities of your practices, as long as you worship God and no one else.
That is beyond lame and gay. Without having inter religious wars the idea of Pilgrims fighting Pilgrims is ridiculous. If you have some heresies then it would be cool to see even different subfactions.

>>96284188
>Without having inter religious wars
The major national/multinational churches are roughly united behind the main church of Rome. In the chaos of the front however their bands still fight each other on the front over ideological disputes and for resources. It's mention in the fluff as well.

>>96284188
>Without having inter religious wars
They still happen; the Syncretic Church is an overarching union, but not a day to day, person to person reality.
Infighting happens all the time.

>>96268995 (OP)
Looks cool.

The good thing of TC is that I can say that I don't suck at painting but it was made in grimdark style.

>>96283835
Okay but can you not see how you pointing out that they just wore stuff other people wore at the time means that isn't an aesthetic they can claim? You can't just point at a guy wearing typical clothing for the time period and say that's a unique subculture aesthetic. You could rightfully point out that protestants mostly wear slacks and collared shirts nowadays but calling slacks and a collared shirt the "protestant aesthetic" would be silly.

>You could do a zealot faction that is just guys in black suits wearing floppy hats, all wearing the same attire,

Sure but if someone saw that they're probably not going to be thinking they just colonial themed warband, not a protestant one.

>>96284188
There being an organization that's trying to unite the faiths doesn't mean there's isn't interfaith disputes. In fact I would think the fact that such an organization would have to be formed shows that they're struggling to unite on their own.

>>96284188
in the lore primer they mention a years (decades?) long war of trinitarianism I believe.
Plus the reason anchorite shrines are mostly melee only is because the only place that knows how to properly make them has a religious dispute with the wider church over communicants.
A solid number of in-game variant rules are "because of X religious dispute, Y thing changes" like the Red Brigade only getting 2 church-guy-elites.

>>96287050
The disagreement about communicants makes me wonder why the Cavalcade doesn't also get some anchorite upgrades

>>96286845
The colonials were protestants anon, puritans ARE protestants.

>>96287152
SOME colonials were protestant. English settlers were a mix of Puritans, protestants, and Catholics but french and Spanish settlers were all catholic.

It also should be pointed that while protestants, most of them were Anglican protestants which did not follow the puritanical "aesthetic" that is being described here.

New sketches from Mike. Seems like Path of the Beast stuff.

>>96295402
Seems like it. I'm surprised they wield guns.

>>96295602
Honestly I enjoy it, we already have a lots-of-limited-weapons faction with the Grail.

>>96295803
Id have liked another option for a faction that doesnt use complex weaponry specifically because zombies are kindof lame to make. Only reason Im interested in BG is for Dirge, and I dont even know what theyre suppose to look like, theyre just described as not being bloated corpses.

Speaking of which, didnt BG also get a pig aesthetic faction? Have I got old rules or have they not been added yet.

>>96295402
>can pull from plethora of animalistic traits
>whole fluff is about devolution and going back in time biologically-speaking
>behemoth is supposed to be a vessel of every possible animal morphology
>could tap into synapsids, hell even amoebas, hydras, devonian / cambrian fauna but with a hellish twist on it
>could have had hellbound tacticool trench horror-raptors
>its just skinless dog stuff
>beastlords are just skinless wolf stuff multiplied by 20
Mike's stuff is pretty lacklustre when it comes to monster designs, it really shows that he is mostly into humans and alt-history part of the project. :/

>>96296563
Yeah, we get it, for the 50th time, you don't like the game and it's art. You should spend your time doing things you do like instead of constantly whining to us about what you don't like.

>>96296578
No I like the game, think its pretty good system-wise and I like the people into the game, I am just salty about the art and yes I will whine until the reality reasserts itself around my manic fantasies.

>>96296563
According to Mike himself in that panel they had a while back, hes trying to keep the designs more "attainable" than not so people can easily model them and get into the game without necessarily having to buy their official models or resort to just using warhammer stuff to get something that looks the part. Its a noble thing but youre absoloutely right. Im sure they could make something wholly unique, but it would make it harder to indulge a crowning aspect of the game, which is making your own models, not just buying them, if you want to make something outlandish its completely fine because the goal is not to just replicate the official art, its to make something to a theme.

If you want tacticool biped lizards, you can just make that, call them demon corrupted or hell spawn, the setting allows a lot within the theme, the goal is not to just replicate the art.

>>96296982
I would say that it is a good point, but then the miniatures make a pretty decent job of transitioning from art to models in terms of detail and fidelity, so the kitbashed/proxied models *do* in fact stand out pretty significantly from official stuff? So that's a little counteractive toward the "attainability" sentiment.
Also isn't the whole point of art/fluff to inspire the crazier ideas as opposed to "intentionally holding back"?

>>96296563
>could tap into synapsids, hell even amoebas, hydras, devonian / cambrian fauna but with a hellish twist on it
>could have had hellbound tacticool trench horror-raptors
>its just skinless dog stuff
>beastlords are just skinless wolf stuff multiplied by 20
Not only have we seen Path stuff combine different design elements before (ticks and insectoid features, the Zygotic Lord having a fucking crescent moon umbilical, etc) but it's literally a model-agnostic game - kit bash the shit you want and you can easily claim that it's the result of that particular warband's blessings from the Beast. I have never understood this type of whining.

>>96297400
I dont understand the "miniature agnostic" argument, "miniature agnostic" doesn't mean "style agnostic" and I think when doing yourdudes its important to still make them aesthetically fit into the overall feel and look of the art and setting. Something that doesn't resonate with the artstyle gonna look like it doesn't belongs in the game's world
>ticks and insectoid features, the Zygotic Lord having a fucking crescent moon umbilical
Oh come on, ticks are there just for the "dogs get ticks" theming (pretty sure there arent insectoid devotees themselves) and zygotic lord is a dog too. The whole design language and aesthetic of the faction is pretty locked into werewolves theme, at least visually

>>96297383
I think attainable means more that there is a larger variety of humanoid model ranges to work from and use as a base, not everyone will be able to sculpt stuff from scratch and make the crazier stuff, so they could add something nutty, and only a fraction of people will even be able to use it becuase they have to actually make the thing. Bear in mind, the official models do not have a lot of weapons or armour options, even with them, you are still expected to kitbash in some degree.

>>96297477
This.
I hate when 'model agnostic' is taken to be 'a bunch of the cheapest shit i could find and I say it represents XX warband today (it's also rarely painted)'

>>96297504
I might not be a fan of using recognizably tyranid ribs but fuck those occult symbols do go hard, thanks for being prospective and posting some inspiring stuff

If I'm Prussia what the fuck do I do with my shocktroopers that don't have Tank-Splitter Swords. Auto-shotgun + bayonet? Dual sword + grenades? Sword + shield + grenades?

>>96296563
Basically the same issue I have Warhammer Fantasy's beastmen, but this one has the excuse of not being full-fledged faction yet. I expect more interesting designs will come with the subfactions.

>>96297477
>Oh come on, ticks are there just for the "dogs get ticks" theming (pretty sure there arent insectoid devotees themselves) and zygotic lord is a dog too.
Using this overly reductionistic and childish philosophy, you can say this about every faction in every war and tabletop game ever concocted by the human mind since their inception.

>>96300062
Whatever you do, bring grenades.
I saw a friend whose entire schtick is pairing off his troopers, chucking grenades and double charging anything left.
He lacks board control since he keeps models close together, but it has been an effective way to put people on the back foot, and can contend with chunky elites without their own blasts.

The discord is going to be down a little longer, so it'll be an extra day or so before we know what they hell they're doing there (and if they're going to release 1.0)

>>96300062
Swords are almost useless, take them only if you have ducats to waste, double trench clubs + grenades is what you want.
Stormtroopers will die, do not put armor on them, spend money on heavy killers (heroes, engineers with satchel and so on)

Can I get a QRD on Trench Crusade? Is it fully out now? Why does the website say pre order? Is the gameplay fun?

>>96308167
>Can I get a QRD on Trench Crusade?
There's one in the OP.

There's also a lore primer in the mega in the OP, as well as a folder of subsequent lore pdf's for you to flip through. Playtest rules are all in there too.

>Is it fully out now?
Not yet, but the final version of the game will be the next release. And that might be soon, since they locked down the discord for 'maintenance', which may be reorganizing it in preparation for a fully released game rather than a playtest-phase game.

>>96308203
>>Can I get a QRD on Trench Crusade?
>There's one in the OP.
Sorry, I meant about the state of the game, not the lore. Are the only people able to play now the kickstarter backers? And the pre-orders will start shipping when the game is released? And there's no release date yet?
I'm not familiar at all with the situation. It just looks fucking cool

>>96308231
>Sorry, I meant about the state of the game, not the lore.
We've hit the final playtest edition, the next edition to be released will be the final game. It's totally playable as is, though.

>Are the only people able to play now the kickstarter backers?
No, the game rules are free and will always be. The latest ones tend to be up on their website, but sometimes they're delayed due to fixing wording, grammar, etc. To save Anon's from having to visit the Discord to get the absolute latest files and test files I've joined it and put them all in the mega link in the OP, ready for you to use as fit.

>And the pre-orders will start shipping when the game is released?
Most of the kickstarter preorders have shipped, everything but the rules since they're the last thing to be completed entirely.

>And there's no release date yet?
August-September most likely, hopefully no issues arise during printing.

>>96308280
Thanks, king

Too many trannies in this game. It’s actually true when people say troon crusade they weren’t lying. In real life thankfully not that bad but still so many lgbt. I guess that’s every local gaming store now… would love to play against someone who wasn’t extremely autistic or annoying. About half the pool of people to play with and it’s a tiny pool are insufferable to play against either won’t shut the fuck up for 2 minutes even or laughs and giggles at every fucking thing and ruins the vibe. And , to top it off people rather use third party apps instead of the actual FREE pdf that’s the true rules. Had to get a rematch because of it already, and other people in the campaign are doing it to now and I’m just like why?? Why make everything more annoying to have to deal with and now I have to treat them like babies and double check every fucking rule to make sure it’s good. I can’t take peoples word for it now because it was ruined more than once. I feel like squidward dealing with constant spongebobs everywhere. Is that a normal experience or am I just antisocial? Well that ends my blog post . I like the game but some of these players just make me mald and not want to play anymore. Seriously considering just dropping out of the campaign

>96310040
You sound like a absolute sperg. Do the world a favor and neck yourself

Can women be war prophets?

>>96310574
Can men be stigmatic nuns?

>>96310574
A black woman is the official War Prophet mini.

>>96310574
Anyone can be a war prophet, it's literally the faction of random zealots and cultists of any esoteric or extremist viewpoint.

>>96310606
No.

>>96310040
>Is that a normal experience or am I just antisocial?
Both.
The compendium is linked in the official site, therefore it's not fault of these retards.
And you are autistic.

>>96310645
voiced by Whoopi Goldberg

>>96310606
Sure, why not

>96310040
You do not play games and you are solely here to stir shit and be an obnoxious piece of shit. Fuck off.

>>96270016
Unironically probably because somewhere in their minds it is too tainted by "old style dude bro chud gaming".

Honestly, I like the look of the Grace of the Flesh. Bit cartoony, but still cool.

Having played my first campaign now I can say to anyone doing it don’t care about winning in the slightest. Unless you’re all playing the exact same missions what you get will massively dictate how many VP can you score, some you’ll only be getting 6 max

>>96310661
"I'm coming for your eyebrows-brows-brows..."

>create game with interesting setting
>openly say the lore is still a work in progress and that you welcome creative ideas
>immediately pull a 180 and start banning anyone for theorycrafts you don't agree with
>state that you don't want anyone in the community who gets too into the religious aspects, despite your setting being directly based on Abrahamic religion
>also say there are no "good guys" in your setting despite the antagonist faction being demons from literal hell

What was the thought process here, again?

>96315269
My thought process is that you're a faggot who needs better, less stale, less obvious bait.

>five hours between the last post and mine
most people trying to bait don't bait in dead generals, faggot

>>96315652
Discord down for maintenance and all the new rules are being kept close to the chest for the proper book release, so I think baiters are lost for what to reach at.

>>96315865
Honestly, I wonderveho of the garden variety warhammer e-daddies has made a video, because peoole have come to shit up the thread. The activity has not increased alot, but still increased.

>>96316173
>The activity has not increased alot, but still increased.
Summerfags.

What’s the advantage of playing red brigade? There’s a lot of debuffs just to take dogs and a communicant

>>96316455
Campain buffs (they can take armora from the fallen and other things) and... Doggos, tons of doggos.

>>96315269
>What was the thought process here, again?
Reddit.

>>96315269
Noone at any point claimed there is no good guys in this setting, the bad guys are the demon child rapists that want to destroy the world. If you need morality to be told to you on paper so you understand who the bad guy are I dont know what to tell you. Just because the good guys have extreme methods it doesnt mean they are the bad guys, youre the same fucking idiot that would say that the humans are the bad guys in Starship Troopers. No, the fucking man eating monsters with swords for arms that hollow out planets are the bad guys, just because the humans are militaristic it doesnt make them not the good guys.

>>96319852
In Starship Troopers, the movie not the book, the asteroid was a false flag.
Humans are living in a dystopia where the government feed BS to the citizens and send them to conquer other planets.
It Is not just about le good and le bad.

>>96320368
A preemtive attack against evil doesnt make you the bad guy. Again, stop empathizing with literal monsters, the bugs in ST movie were not some heckin wholesome species, they apparently hollow out entire planets and wipe all life out on them.

Was thinkin' about getting three of the sultanate assassins for an 'army' I can effectively put in a pencil pouch in my bag, able to pop out into a game whenever.

1) They still good? I don't mean the best, just not shit-tier even if extremely meme-y.
2) Any good recommendations on a place to get them? Or suitable knockoffs.

Thanks for any and all help. Neat game, I love the bomb witch idea in particular.

>>96320444
>A preemtive attack against evil doesnt make you the bad guy.

Anon literally the only thing that you could argue makes them evil, other than merely being aliens, was a false flag.

>>96321342
See theres that shit again where you anthropomorphising monsters, the monsters that hollow out planets and destroy all life on them till they are the only thing left are evil. These are creatures that destroy, they do not co exist, apply that to the demons in TC, they do not want to live side by side with the humans they want to destroy them, they just lacked the means to act on it.

>>96321431
>the monsters that hollow out planets and destroy all life on them till they are the only thing left are evil.

So humans?

>>96320368
>Pictures of demons crying that make you say "screw the maximally great necessary being and shit"

>>96321445
Nope. The monsters are not some allegory for humans, they are quadropeds with swords for limbs and suck the brains out of living creatures to gain their thoughts and are a hive mind. What human group is that an allegory for. Stop emapthizing with monsters like monsters are human people, not everything is an allegory, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

The demons are just demons anon, they arent misunderstood. They arent tortruring and eating people because they have to for some gray morality reason, they are doing it because they want to, they enjoy it, they want humans subservient and suffering because they like that. How is those fighting against them not the good guys.

>>96321581
>The monsters are not some allegory for humans

Anon I'm not talking about allegory here. ecological devastation and mass extinction in order to help your own species above all else is something that humans just straight up do. Nothing you have claimed so far that makes the aliens in starship troopers can't also be said about humans.

>How is those fighting against them not the good guys.

Fighting evil doesn't make you a good guy anon, pursuing virtue does. If a pedophile kills a serial killer he's not suddenly a good guy.

>>96321615
Yea I know, but Im human, so I support it, I want them to win, same with the imperium in 40k, I dont fucking care how heckin wholesome the Tau are, Im human, I want the humans to win, because Tau are not human they are faggots. What you just described is a bad person killing another bad person.

For your example, what if said pedophile was asked to do this by the family of the victim of the serial killer, this does not make them a good person still, but it certainlly helps in the fight against evil and is done in service of the good guys even if they arent one of them. In TC the ecclesiastic prisoners are exactly this, they arent good because they are on the side of the good guys, however their actions are in service of the good guys which makes them useful to the good cause, its for god to redeem them but its in their hands to help the good guys in an effort to attain that. Likewise, a demon killing another demon doesnt make that demon a good guy, but if that demon killed the demon for the purposes of actually helping the good guys and not just doing it for the sake of killing, then thats something that would make god raise an eyebrow. Can a monster be redeemed. Well they have to serve the good guys to find out.

Northstar showed off their Cultist III minis for the first time. Looks like they'll make some real good Trench Pilgrims. No idea what the head options will be, but hopefully it includes some capirotes like their first kit did.

What's your setup for playing on TTS blokes?

>>96323415
Compendium guy (or I guess Companion Guy now) tagging in to say we are currently working on a TTS export - so hopefully that will smooth things out.

Also imports for the compendium and maybe New Recruit if things work out - but its harder to make working imports than exports imo.

>>96321678
>Yea I know, but Im human, so I support it, I want them to win, same with the imperium in 40k, I dont fucking care how heckin wholesome the Tau are, Im human, I want the humans to win, because Tau are not human they are faggots. What you just described is a bad person killing another bad person

It seems silly to argue from the position that something not being human makes it evil. If you're trying to say that everyone looks out for their own interests and that humans coming out on top benefits yourself the most that's one thing. However trying to argue that that's a basis for moral good and moral evil is a pretty fringe belief.

>For your example, what if said pedophile was asked to do this by the family of the victim of the serial killer, this does not make them a good person still, but it certainlly helps in the fight against evil and is done in service of the good guys even if they arent one of them.

Yeah if a pedophile was doing good things for good reasons he's better than one that doesn't, but splitting hairs on who is morally better between pedophiles is kind of pointless.

>>96320514
It's flashy, but it's all about the gimmick. You almost always be the first to act. IF you make your dashes turn1, they can neutralize some key enemy tools, like witches, hunters, etc., so you essentially try to even out the battlefield for a cleanup. If not, you are essentially fucked. With that said, it is only a meme in those maps where you can't infiltrate. You will struggle vs. armor, the acolytes can carry flamers, but die to a fart, usually before they can use them, because you can't give them survivability because the budget. It is a straightforward army to build and play, but it is hard. If you played 10th ed world eaters in 40k, it is closest to that playstyle I think.

>>96320514
Oh, also, I forgot the models. Check out wargames crew on mmf or cults. They have a whole range, assassins, acolytes, even dervishes. Originally I wanted to kitbash, but I ordered their shit instead, it's great stuff.

>>96283835
God they knew how to draw back then

>>96270016
Those guys look like heroes. The current Trench Crusade is all about being edgelords and nihilists

>>96323649
You are trying to push some moral philosophy into this argument anon, but the original argument wasn't that "NA and TP = the objectively moral good faction". It was "Hell = the bad guys". We can fucking debate about morals and values, and shades of grey, like faggots, or we can use ageless axioms like "humanity's triumph is a virtue" to calibrate a simple moral compass.

>>96324609
Says who, just make your guys that lol. I feel like people coming at this from your perspective are looking at everything but the protagonist faction, who are just normal guys FIGHTING the edgy and nihilistic stuff.

>>96324647
> the original argument wasn't that "NA and TP = the objectively moral good faction". It was "Hell = the bad guys".

No the original claim was that

>Noone at any point claimed there is no good guys in this setting, the bad guys are the demon child rapists that want to destroy the world. If you need morality to be told to you on paper so you understand who the bad guy are I dont know what to tell you. Just because the good guys have extreme methods it doesnt mean they are the bad guys

Which is clearly calling the human factions morally good

>>96325409
Because they are. Are you the same person that would make arguments that the alliance in Lord of the Rings are morally gray because of how ruthlessly they kill orcs and go one step farther in that they chase them to the ends of the earth to kill them? The side that refuses to align with monsters and fights said monster that want to destroy the world of man is the morally good side, put it in context, not parallel to reality.

Again, in the context of this setting, not real life, demons are real, there is no argueing which side is the good guys when one side has literal demons. Morally gray doesnt work here, both sides are not the same, one is patently evil and the other is trying to stop them. The demons are unabashedly evil in this, they dont see themselves as the good guys, they embrace that they are an affront to decency, their entire existence is in opposition and spite of heaven and what it stands for, there is no demon sitting in a trench saying "damn, were all the same, cant we just put our weapons down and see that this war is pointless? If only our commanders werent so stupid maybe we would have peace.". So unless youre trying to say that heaven itself is morally gray I dont see the point of arguing that the setting is morally gray. The humans are morally good, corrupted humans are morally evil, note that the corrupted humans SERVE DEMONS.

>>96326102
>Because they are. Are you the same person that would make arguments that the alliance in Lord of the Rings are morally gray because of how ruthlessly they kill orcs and go one step farther in that they chase them to the ends of the earth to kill them? The side that refuses to align with monsters and fights said monster that want to destroy the world of man is the morally good side, put it in context, not parallel to reality.


You're ignoring the fact that in your example the heroes of lord of the rings presented are not good merely because they fight orks but because of their personal goals, actions, and character. Even characters who fight with them against the orks still serve as antagonists despite being on the side of good like boromir who seeks the rings power to save everyone and denethor who allows grief to blind him. If aragorn was a vile person who mutilated children but still thwarted sauron in the end we would kill him an anti-hero at best, certainly not a good guy.

>Again, in the context of this setting, not real life, demons are real, there is no argueing which side is the good guys when one side has literal demons. Morally gray doesnt work here, both sides are not the same, one is patently evil and the other is trying to stop them.

You're completely ignoring the argument at hand here. The point isn't that the sides are morally equal, the point is they both commit terrible acts. Yes the demons are objectively worse but that doesn't make those who fight them good by comparison. As a I stated previously, someone who does reprehensible things doesn't become good just because they fight a greater evil. What we would consider morally gray actions in a vacuum don't suddenly become morally white because someone else is doing something plainly morally black. If, for example, there was no greater evil like demons in this setting and this is just how these groups acted, would you still describe them as good?

>>96327035
Morally good actions dont require that the person be moral in the first place. Thats the whole basis of redemption, a sinner can be redeemed, but they have to earn it by seving the moral good and doing moral good from then on in service of a moral good, in this case, the moral good of heaven, and heaven is not morally gray, its not suggested to be so anywhere in this. The soldiers are fighting the demons, like the soldiers of Osgiliath are fighting orcs. They are not morally gray because they get dirty with their tactics, because they are serving the moral good, they are holding back evil.

What about the christian TC factions makes them bad morally in the context of the setting. What are examples of the christians in this being moral gray, or is it based on their aesthetics? I dont get it, from the very outset I assumed the christians were the good guys even based on just the way they look, then when you see the framework of the setting they are just doing everything within their mortal power to hold back unnatural devil spawn.

>>96327367
Not that anon, but I read the TC setting as most interesting when you look at what the faithful are doing (child mutilation, transmogrifying people into monsters, creating beings without souls) and mull over how these are horrible terrible acts in our timeline but in the context of the absolute evil that is hell they become good actions.

To us, the faithful are morally grey while hell are typical pure evil, but the context of pure evil makes judging their actions significantly harder to do since, well, if they didnt do the child mutilation then we'd have child sacrifice.

I have no clue why people are hung up on the question who are the good guys of the fictional setting. At best you get people being mad because in internet people are having wrong opinions.

>>96327817
Yea thats what Im saying, in reality these things would be morally objectionable, in the reality where hell is real and its inhabitants are actively eating your population I think morality changes. Suddenly, burning witches is no longer questionable, because the witch is real, they actually did make a pact with an actual demon where in exchange for power they sacrifice children.

Always try to treat actions in a fictional setting in the context of that setting rather than in real life.

>tts fags seething about tts and min max guides getting banned on the discord
lmao retards actually have to talk to people to play now and build their own narrative warbands instead of waacfagging, nooo

>>96328743
Please for the love of god keep that shit out of the game, that stuff is pure cancer in Mordheim. I really hope they arent listening to metafags for balancing.

>>96328764
I kinda feel bad for tuomas, I really don't think he was expecting trench crusade to get this amount of wargaming newfags and secondaries in the community. I think he was intending for this to be more of a niche indie Mordheim type of community about kitbashing and narrative campaigns. The drama surrounding the game being a "40k killer" and the proceeding culture war bullshit attracted a giant swathe of retards who have never even touched a wargame before in their lives. He seems to mostly ignore the server in recent months which is probably the best move

>>96328743
What's there to seethe about? There's Workshop mods for the minis, a table, and 3d maps to load in.

>>96328764
>don't listen to metgfags when examining the meta of the game
Uhh...
I mean if you're going to take player input or statistics into consideration when looking at balancing for a competitive situation it should probably be the high level players who have the mechanics more figured out, no?

>>96329232
>competitive situation
>trench crusade

>>96329244
Yes, if ever such a thing arises. Which that post implies because they're doing 'balancing'. Why would you be doing balancing for a narrative only system? You wouldn't.

Invariably, who you should listen to when doing that IS the metafags because they know it best.
I'm not saying listen to them as in do what they say, mind. Don't misunderstand.

>>96329232
Skirmish campaign games are narrative based, its like playing an RPG competatively, you can but its just not made for that, if they make it around this it will get very lame very fast. Most people want to make "their guys", that goes completely out the window when meta is making the balance, because they dont care about narrative they care about balance.

>>96327367
>Morally good actions dont require that the person be moral in the first place.

That's not what's being argued here, no one has made the claim that killing demons is bad.

>Thats the whole basis of redemption, a sinner can be redeemed, but they have to earn it by seving the moral good and doing moral good from then on in service of a moral good, in this case, the moral good of heaven, and heaven is not morally gray, its not suggested to be so anywhere in this. The soldiers are fighting the demons, like the soldiers of Osgiliath are fighting orcs. They are not morally gray because they get dirty with their tactics, because they are serving the moral good, they are holding back evil.

Abandoning good to defeat evil at all costs isn't widely accepted to be a good thing. And even Christian ethics would dictate it's better to be a martyr than to engage in sinful activity as a pragmatic tactic.

>What about the christian TC factions makes them bad morally in the context of the setting. What are examples of the christians in this being moral gray, or is it based on their aesthetics?

The mutilation of children is a big one. The actual lives of people not on the front lines hasn't be delved into that much but what little we do know doesn't paint a pretty picture, people worked to death in factories, overall poor conditions not just because of the war but because of the resources spent on cathedrals, monuments and the like. Internal conflicts are common and not just the kinds caused by devil worship, fights between different sects of the same religion. And if you ascribe to Christianity, a lot of what the church does with the meta-christ is straight up blasphemy.

It's also unclear if these actions are actually required by their situation, as other groups fight successfully without resorting to using things like meta-christs or mutilating children.

Is the trench game just mordheim rules with guns?
Is it has good as mordheim? Better?
Worse but still good?

>>96328881
lol he deserves it.

>>96283823
You accuse a random old lady of being a witch and burn her at the stake, as Martin Luther would have wanted.

>>96329585
Kindof, the ranged focus gets over a problem that Mordheim had where every character is just dual wielding because ranged weapons are too expensive and shit, so noone takes armour and shields, or ranged, because melee is the only reliable thing for every faction. In this, everyone is going to have a gun, so now you have to build more defenses and actually use shields and armour, they are not a waste of resources now, because you dont want your good units to get shredded the moment the enemy sets sights on them. A knight cant just sit on an objective looking at 2 clanrats where the clanrats cant do anything but run in and die, in this the "clanrats" have guns, and they can take shots at the "knight" if they dont get into cover or try to engage themselves, or even shoot back, it makes objectives more of a push and pull rather than who gets their elites on it first, the elites can get torn to ribbons by the common units in this due to everyone having guns.

>>96278640
What about the Waldesians? They were the protestants before the protestants.

>>96329485
OK. I know what you're talking about but you gotta at least think that it's not going to be very fun if your guys just get smeared by a dominant strategy though right? How many little campaigns can you tolerate ending at the hands of a guy across the table who found out that this Faction with these units is entirely advantageous in the majority of scenarios and mission types thanks to so and so abilities, etc.

Yknow it's like my Hearthkin KillTeam. I would love to give 'em names and a history like TC has built into the system but why would I bother after the third or fourth time some Angels of Death or Heretik Circle board wipe me? You gotta have /some/ balancing and no one's gonna get it perfect out of the gate.

>>96329558
We also have to remember "the day hope died", or whatever it was called. When the three leaders of the church were assassinated and their souls taken to hell because of the death commando's tartarus claws, but any trench pilgrim in your warband can potentially survive an encounter after getting hit with them or even still resurrect if killed.

>>96330172
I think the only group broadly considered to be in a rough spot is the Black Grail, as a lot of their budget (universal fear and mostly universal resistance bar FIRE) can be a matchup fish.

>>96330208
I mean that makes sense to me. Skirmish in the middle of no mans land is a different situation for an assassin-type to do their job compared to a coordinated top-level mission where the christians think they're mostly safe.

>>96330357
I would think it has more to do with the church not doing good things and the leadership going far beyond what would be realistically "moral". Meanwhile, a random trench pilgrim is a some random person who travelled all the way to no man's land just to lay down their lives for a chance at making the world a better place.

>>96329585
Everybody can die by a shoot of a random guy, even the tanks.
It is not rare to see a big massive demons shoot down by a cheap mini sit on the other side of the map.
It is smoother, funnier, with less dice roll, less engaging lore, than Mordheim.

>>96330172
Yea but meta is antilife to narrative games. General balance is key for sure, like there shouldnt be a "I pick this, I win, and only I get it" etc, but when it gets to a point where everyone is evenly matched thats just lame for narrative games. Stuff like Court should not have things like the knights and praetors tuned down so its more balanced when fighting a Yeoman, they are the boss encounter for other players, and players playing them have a rather fixed linear path when building their list so are predictable.

In a campaign game you can come out of it with more unit losses and still have won, the goals is the overall campaign objectives not how many kills you get, its that you did your objectives. So that small group of elites that basically kills any unit you throw at it? Well you have more units, you can be in more places at once and take risks going for objectives that they cant, or perhaps this game you ignore the objectives, and focus on killing even one or two of their elites becuase to replace them it costs WAY more than it does for you, so you try to bleed their coffers, where even if you take losses and lose that round, you still hit them in their wallet, where every loss takes a massive chunk out of it, and maybe they cant even replace it. Its why stuff like Yeomen are actually great, they are dirt cheap and get a discount on a decent weapon, so you can replace them easily, so throw them into the meat grinder. Im not denying there is some things that need balancing but balancing for meta specifically is always gay and lame.

>>96332105
Not that anon but I guess it depends on how you define meta. Theres people who define meta as a goal for a game to reach for where everything is 'meta' rather than the more common use which is, like you said, one or two 'best' options.

It came out at 3.5" to the horns, and 5" to the sword. So kinda tall for a Praetor.

>>96335807
God damn. Very nice work, Anon.

added an importer for the old compendium warbands to the new Trench Companion.

>>96269105
That's just Protestantism but with extra steps!

>>96337637
Site's looking good so far. Came in very handy for turning my Warband into something digital I can post to the buds in Discord rather than manually inputting it all again by text.
Keep it up.

Am I tripping or does not getting cover for being on a building make zero fucking sense?

Just starting to work on my minis. Was planning to magnetize them for easy equipment swaps (never done that before), but many of those hand bits in official models barely have any room for a magnet hole in the shoulder, I'm afraid the whole thing will just crumble if I start drilling in it. Has anyone done that? Did it turn out allright?

Also, is it normal that drilling a 1mm deep hole in resin takes fucking forever or have I just bought shitty drills or been doing something wrong?

>>96339279
TC approach to cover seems to be that it doesn't matter how much of the model is actually visible from the attacker's POV (as long as at least some of it is), if a model touches a potentially obstructing scenery, it's in cover from that direction and only then. Personally I'm not a big fan of that, since it regularly leads to situations where for example half of the target is clearly obstructed by some building, but ooops, it's an inch away from the nearest rock, so no penalty to hit it. But at least it saves the game from arguing and bickering about how much of the model is actually in the POV, which is I guess why they've decided on such a solution

>>96340039
You can cut just behind the cuff of the front grip hand. That give you enough material left to drill and mount 2x1mm magnets. This makes the gun two pieces (trigger arm+front grip hand and left arm). See pic related. The only gun i broke while doing this was a machine gun, but that could be easily glued back together with some sprue goo.
On the subject of drilling in resin you do need sharp bits to get through it quickly, but with a bit of elbow grease any bit will do in a pinch.

>>96340039
It just doesn't make sense.
The criteria are

>in contact with a piece of scenery that is at least as long as the model's base
This is so you can't get cover behind something smaller than you like a road sign or skinny tree but a building that you're on top of fulfills this criteria. That's wider than your model's base and you are in contact with it.
>If an attacker can see a model in its entirety
They can't. At least part of your model is covered from sight by units below. That's just obvious. Even if you're teetering on the edge part of the base is obscured which counts for LoS in this game. I wouldn't play it like that personally though.
>cannot gain cover due to angles
I don't really understand what this part means. Getting an angle IS coverplay.
>distant scenery
This is so you don't count as In Cover because of a wall between you and the Shooter and don't have to do trigonometry like in KT over it. Fine.
>or the surface they are standing on (such as on top of a building)
Bollocks!
This means that if I'm standing on an upper floor of a building and a grunt directly below me can see a single finger of my model, he can fire without any kind of detriment. Nonsense and I'll be house-ruling it.

>>96343274
I've never seen someone magnetize infantry arms before.

>>96340039
It is faster to print and Paint two models

>>96269947
>no aesthetics

>very first campaign game
>mechanised heavy infantry with machine armour just moved onto a secluded central point and stood there daring anyone to move around obstacles to get to him
>completely untouched throughout the entire battle until round 3
>singular lil dude walks up, peeks at MHI through a window and tosses a gas grenade
>despite -1 Dice rolls a 6, 5, 5
>mfw gas grenades ignore armour attributes and instakills the mech
>mfw I roll a 1 after the battle (1-2 means whoever got taken out of action dies, 3-6 means they survived)

>>96345547
Not that bad if it's the first battle, would be a much bigger pain if it already had some fancier equipment or was an elite with accumulated experience. But yeah, these things happen. My friend had an Alchemist with 2 strong updates and great equipment roll two 1s on the injury chart the first time somebody took him down, instakillin him.

Also, armour ignoring stuff is an absolute must have, this -1DICE to injury on gas grenades is nothing compared to the fact they ignore armour

>>96345547
>Hell Infantry whispers a quick blasphemy against the Tyrant taught to him by his Priest
>Throws a grenade at the bipedal tank, hoping to get it to move out of the gas
Hell was listening
>Grenade twists mid-air with too much power and lands longways through the slit
>Mechanized Knights dies choking on his own stagnant breath as he tries and fails to remove the ancient, many-inherited tomb he dies in

It's not just anyone can die, it's that anyone will die.

Has GW ever made decent gas masks for the setting? I went the kitbash route for my trench pilgrims and I have a few models that are almost all GW, with WGA russian ww1 gas masks. Would like to see if I can make them all GW for painting competition purposes.

>>96349038
Death Korp of Krieg are the only ones that come to mind.

>>96345517
Honestly a Protestant faction would probably be one of the more heavily industrialized factions, what with the Protestant Work Ethic and all that.

>>96324190
Thank you very much for the tips and guidance! I'll look into that and see what I come up with. May you and yours be blessed with health and wealth.

(Un)Holy shit, I love it. The breast veins and discolorations look moist and alive, yet the peeled skin with rings in it make it looke more like slutty attire rather than part of the body. 10/10
>>96335807

>>96335807
Feel like it needs to be to have some incense burned or wax melted every time it comes on the board to complete the picture.

>>96335807
Lust court I suppose

>>96269046
>handmaid tale
The sultanate already exists as a faction :)

>>96351374
thanks

>>96352344
Yes, court of Lust.

>>96337637
Thanks anon it’s looking good. Just thought I’d mention there’s a bug with Black Grail where your stolen weapon on rotten cross plague knights will keep trying to delete itself

>>96284188
Do you really believe having the Super-Pope saying that the faithful will not fight against the faithful will, in reality, stop the faithful fighting the faithful? Why?

>>96359496
The crazies tend to join the pilgrims and rush headfirst into no mans land, that's where they kill the other faithful, somewhere easy to cover up.

>>96268995 (OP)
Has anyone recieved their models from the kickstarter? Still waiting on my Black Grail and Court of the Serpent models

>>96366486
Is that a faithful or heretic tank? I can't tell.

>>96368998
Faithful. The lack of goetic imagery is what gives it away as the enemy. Now, if it had islamic imagery on it...

>>96366700
You got scammed. Accept it and start the chargeback procedure, make sure you try to get it refunded first so you have evidence of them being dickheads who had no good faith attempt to fulfill their end of the deal

>>96366700
I got my iron sultanate band like two months ago, if you've not received any emails from 3DC about shipping, apparently their printers broke in june and they're still fixing them but they want models finished by mid june

>>96370625
MID SEPTEMBER. ignore my retardation

>>96370625
>their printers broke in june
Hah. Imagine that shit happening in the Sultanate.
>We cannot make shells because our bullet-printers are broken!
>Get the presses and molds ready! We're doing it by hand!

>>96370650
Printers? The glorious sultanate handcrafts its brilliant masterwork weaponry and alchemical reagents. Unlike the kuffar we need no machines. (ignore the likely possibility of homunculus sweatshops)

>>96310645
and she's uglier than sin

>>96283390
Dooba Ooooba AAAAAAAAA

>>96297477
i kinda figured it was more so people who had beastmen armies from Fantasy could use them in TC but i guess i could see that

>>96366700
My mate just did a couple days ago, quite good but the packaging meant they were a bit squished - putting them in some warm water cured their ED though.

We're in Aussie so usually if we have it most people have it.

>>96372143
kingdoms forlorns KS 1st wave went to australia for some fucking reason while 2nd wave was the US.

>>96310645
I really dislike the sculpt, but give this model a proper helmet and all of a sudden it becomes badass. And then you can just imagine it's (black) woman underneath if you like.

Would a sawn off, stockless shotgun on a mini be more of a shotgun or a handgun? Or is it more of a dealers choice?

>>96345547
Lesson one in Trench Crusade - armour alone is not a reliable defense. You need -injury dice, TOUGH or another defensive ability stacked on top of it before armour becomes a significant barrier, because it is far too easy to put a couple of blood markers on an armoured model and then delete it with a single attack with one of the many weapons that punches through armour.

MHIs are a lot worse than they look for exactly that reason. If they weren't NA's only reliable way of bringing heavy shotguns, heavy flamers or a third satchel charge without being crippled by Heavy, then NA wouldn't even use them. Treat them as heavy weapons carriers that might be able to take a hit or two if you are lucky, and assume they are dead if any armour ignoring or 3d6 injury weapon even looks at them.

>>96372734
She's the "anti-chud" model.
The dumbest model of them all.
I put a Blasphemous Penitent One's head on her.

Are there any Trench Pilgrim players here who are doing decently in their games? If yes, how on Earth do you make this faction work? We are 15 battles into a campaign right now and so far our friend who's playing Pilgrims (basic variant) had his ass seriously kicked pretty much every battle. We wanted to give him some advice, but honestly looking at their rules and stats I really feel like they just objectively suck compared to everything else, especially the infernal factions.

They are a melee focused faction, but the only actually powerful melee weapon they have access to is elite only, so even if your horde of regular grunts manages to reach the enemy they can't really consistently hurt him and have to rely on luck, doubly so if the enemies have a decent amount of armour, which they will if the oponent knows what they're doing

Meanwhile they can only field 2 guys who can shoot long range weapons any competently to actually take down key targets and deal some serious damage (the prophet and castigator). And you actually need those guys at the front if you want to make use of their abilities.

The bomb guys are an absolute joke, their one-time only suicidal explosion that needs them to be right next to the enemy is weaker than Artillery Witch or Murad bomber which can also both shoot from the other half of the battlefield every turn without fucking killing themselves and aren't even that much more expensive. Who the fuck thought that would be okay?

The Shrine is really powerful, but it's pretty much the only ace in the hole the Pilgrims have and every other faction barring Antioch also has a poweful big guy, so it hardly outweighs anything.

Sure, the Nuns, ressurected Pilgrims and Elites have some extra survivability, but compared to the offensive capabilities pretty much every other faction can have if built competently the Pilgrims get wrecked anyway and can hardly accomplish anything unless exceptionally lucky.

>>96373977
(2/2)
I guess just going full into numbers and zerg rushing the objectives could work, but it's only effective in some scenarios and in half of those can largely be countered by highly mobile enemies, AoE weapons, some abilities and infiltrators (which they again don't have)

>>96373977
>play a game made by a turbofag chaoswanker
>why is chaos so strong!?!?!!??!?
Real mystery

>>96373977
What's their warband looking like

>>96373977
Ive won 2 games of 3 that werent a campaign, I played 1 with the default and the other 2 using the cavalcade variant. Things Ive notice are
>nuns are punching way above their point cost
>shrine is great, but I feel like buying it in an early campaign will just screw you out of having numbers, numbers feels kindof import for objectives over pure killing power
>the war prophet functioning as a healer makes them incredibly useful for being grouped with chaff. They are youre best shooter, just give them a gun instead of focusing them on melee, the heal is actually really strong. I swapped to the Cavalcade variant however, as it gets an ability to just smite enemies that get into range, this is what Ive been using to deal with heavies. Ive noticed theres no real heavy hitting ranged options for TP and I basically rely on this smite for it
>I feel like you go in expecting zealots to die, throw them into bullshit and dont be precious, the options of a flail, and throwing cross makes them cheap and potent melee, I intend to give the survivors armour and these guys just function as my war prophets bodyguards who block the enemy while the prophet just smites from behind them
>punt gun is basically your artillery piece, I havent tried it in a game but I intend to get the ammo monk so it further buffs the shots and will no longer require I use one of my fighters to load them
>immunity to fear undermins some of the nasties stuff in the game
>dont sleep on blessed icons and holy relic, these are major to making units actually pull off stupid nonsense like doing a backflip onto a grail knight from atop a second floor and knocking it down

When is this fucking game coming out

>>96374942
Tomorrow
>>96373977
Post list.
If he fucked up in the campaign he's behind now, you are overpower compared to him.
TP can snowball very hard on campaign.
Btw
> Warcrosses on nuns, no pistols
> Swarms of nuns are terrifing
> Big tables are devastating for every melee faction
> Anti tank communicants can be a good distraction for the enemy, the enemy will focus on them and not on your big boys in the first turns
> Pilgrims/slaves are for capturing point and distraction mostly,
> Slave bombs are a nice counter to their melee if they overextend, but it is for fun mostly
> Molotovs are good

>>96350131
It'd fit the Swedes, artillery spammers/leather cannon enthusiasts that they were.

Given Joan of Arc and Nelson existed still, I wonder what Gustavus Adolphus and Carolus Rex of this timeline were like, especially since the Kalmar Union apparently survived (this is the most unrealistic thing in the lore imo)

The new lore on Heavy Mech Infantry says that they need the Space Marine treatment to use the armor, but in a campaign you can put any of your elites in a suit of Machine Armor
Is it just handwaved as “there’s a diesel engine in there” to make up for the lack of strength?

>>96375975
>Well-armoured, large soldiers who wield the heavy weaponry of the company. They are
selected from amongst the best and given heavy chemical enhancements.
Where do you see the new lore?

>>96375975
Machine Armor says that
>If worn by a model that is not part of a New Antioch force/subfaction, the only bonus the armour gives is the -3
>injury modifier, as the chemical treatment that allows the wearer to withstand the rigors of the armour is a carefully
>guarded military secret. D3 charge distance remains in force.

It's up to them whether they change "part of a New Antioch force/subfaction" to "Mechanized Infantry". Probably one of the narrative-gameplay interactions that gets overlooked because the people writing the rules aren't hyper-autistic book-fuckers like us.

>>96376125
It was a tweet, I think? It got shared in my LGS’s discord. The gist was that they take adolescents and give them the years-long space marine treatment, amputating limbs to fit in the armor, etc, whereas before I thought they just occasionally doped with Jesus blood

>>96376541
Found it.
They run away from tweet because muh Elon bad.
https://bsky.app/profile/trenchcrusade.bsky.social/post/3lweixgv53c2j
It can actually works, they don't Say that you have to cut down your arms to wear a mech armor, but that it cost too much to mass produce them.
It has sense that elites can buy a custom mech armor.

>>96374917
>>96375813
>>96374538
From what I can recall he has:
>+/-7 Pilgrims, around half of which got ressurected, I think most or all of them are equipped with standard armour and shield, flails and incendiary grenades
>2 Nuns, equipped similarly, but with autopistols instead of grenades
>Prophet and Castigator, both with heavy armour, spear and punt guns
He doesn't have the Shrine yet, but will buy one for the next battle I think. He also backed for reinforcements recently, so he's at the score cap

Usually his Pilgrims and Nuns just try to run down the battlefield towards objectives/enemy position, using whatever cover or terrain they can (our table is usually fairly dense with terrain, so that's not an issue), while his elites stay in the backlines and fire their punt guns.

But, well, the issue is that basically most members of other companies are armoured and have weapons or abilities that give them multiple attacks per turn/armour piercing/bonus injury dice/few of the above, so the pilgrims and nuns get inevitably wrecked and can't do much to the enemies themselves. Meanwhile enemy snipers/artillery/infiltrators tend to focus his punt gun shooters and usually dispose of at least one of them in the first half of battle.

Like, I don't claim his list is particularly good, I would change a decent amount of things in it myself, but I really do feel that this faction is simply inherently inferior to what other factions can field regardless of how well you use it.

But nevertheless, thanks a lot for your input and advice guys, some of it were things I haven't considered before and will be sure to rely them to him.

>>96376839
The lack of mid ranged seems like a problem and that its coming only from the elites

Puntgun is good but its not worth taking 2 to start and on the elites, its more like an artillery or mortar, its not really good for units intended to be right up at the front as it requires you stand still to fire and be supported, just put them on regular zealots and have them supported to fire it, like have have a zealot with a bolt action and another with the puntgun, so they can both stay at a reasonable range to fire it. Even just giving the pilgrims throwing crosses is good as they are dirt cheap, has assault, and have no range penalty, so its actually easier to hit with it than it is with a pistol at longer range. This lets you equip zealots for more melee roles like using a shield and taking advantage of that "strong" zealots by giving them something like a 2 handed weapon.

Also TP has no cap on flamethrowers, people forget that they auto hit, so give it to the communicant and you get over their negative ranged rolls and still allow them to have a ranged attack, or if youre feeling spicy, give everyone a flamethrower. Im still waiting for the flamethrower focused faction mentioned in lore.

>>96329558
>And even Christian ethics would dictate it's better to be a martyr than to engage in sinful activity as a pragmatic tactic.
All of Creation will literally be tortured until existence unmakes itself if they fall. We can't really judge them by our same standards.

>>96376839
> A pilgrim costs 75
> 7 pilgrims
> 520 ducats
>2 pilgrims for an Anchorite...
Pilgrims are gap fillers, not the backbone, they will die even with resurrection or Will not kill anybody.
He wasted all his money...
>Pilgrim with bolt action a bayonet 42, + molotov 47
>Nun with two trench club and warcross 61
>4 nuns, 4 pilgrim 412-432
This solution is much more letal, gives more models and there are 100 ducats to invest on elites.
Pilgrims go on objectives, nuns storm their fatties sneaking through building and doing superhero's landings: they should abuse dive charge. Think of them as berserker ninjas. Their original concept was a heretic berserker ashktually.
> But armor...
Who cares, let them die.
>Punt gun on elites
They are fun, but castigator and war prophet have to be near the army to use their skills, they are not artillery. A punt gun may be nice, but the elites do not magically become bomb witches, and they have range 18.
You should shoot with them where the blood splatters will hit you, in front of the enemy, you don't charge but you shoot straight in their face. Then the communicant or anchorite or both go in and do the meat shield.
>TLDR;
he wasted all his money on walking deads, this is why he lose.

>>96269947
(you)

>>96270016
This looks rad. What is it?

>>96278811
I'm finding as I'm looking to get into it the main thing is the fiddliness of needing to kit out each troop, but I think this might honestly appeal to a lot of people as it brings you back into the space of really making each guy your own as opposed to KT often having people not bother to even name their models. I think a casual person is more apt to like the idea of getting to personalize their set of guys

>>96283390
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mTq0QvUbv8

>>96310606
Only if you have them hanging dong

>>96321431
Meds now. You can't just apply your headcanon to what happened and not what's actually in the story

>>96321615
But they have le heckin sword arms, I'm spooked by bugs and need a big strong man to smush them for me

>>96321678
The imperium are no longer human. Space marines are mutant freaks. Nothing in 40k is human any longer.

>>96326102
Sauce on this video?

>>96326102
Your whole argument boils down to "If there is a greater force of bad, you cannot be bad at all" which is too retarded even for someone LARPing as a christcuck. Just because you aren't a devil-worshipper doesn't mean you can't be irredeemably evil or just generally a bad guy

>>96327817
Sure, but at a certain point the thread has been lost and the light of god is gone, and such acts are equally blasphemous as they are the ultimate goal of satan. It's like the imperium of man in 40k that started out as justified but now carries out acts in the name of the god emperor that he would find abhorrent, and they no longer actually fight for what he set out despite their claims to the contrary and despite them being needed to combat the warp/demons. The point of grimdark is that even the good guys have had stop being good guys to win the war, and that war makes monsters of us all. Stare long enough into the abyss, etc.

>>96329232
Balancing around comp has ruined 100% of games that focus on it, be it video games or tabletop games. Look at KT and all the whinging from youtube talking heads about teams with a winrate above 50% or just whatever team they personally are butthurt about

>>96330172
>bitching about Hierotek
The sign of a true shitter. They wither to proper focus fire, and dwarves can alpha strike their reanimator to gimp their reanimation for the whole game. I play both teams and this is just a skill issue

>>96379656
Thank you for making the argument that sets up the perfect response to this every time its said; there is nothing in the movie itself that says it was a false flag attack. Nothing. It is purely speculation based on a lack of clarity on how the plasma bugs work, yes anon, the movie does not ever actually even imply this is a false flag attack. The script itself says that it was just a plasma bug that shot it and this is how they do orbital bombardments where they shoot at meteors to bump them on a course to their target, it is simply an oversight how far it had to travel and that the movie never outright shows this being done. In subsequent movies in that universe they outright say that the planets are on a timer wherever the bugs exist, theres a reason every instance we see the bugs in the movie its a dustbowl, and the reason they attacked was to get humans to draw closer to them so they would have something to eat, because they had run out of resources on the galaxy they were at and dont have FTL travel. I know the other movies suck but thats the universe this is set in. The bugs wanted war so they could eat the soldiers and treat the humans as "cattle" where its a steady source of food.

>>96379676
Put it in the context of the setting anon, not real life, for fuck sake. This is a setting where god is actually watching, so its probably a good idea to actually live a more pious life even if you dont become a monk, and in the context of the setting, "bad guy" is a world of difference between what we would apply that to in real life. Burning a "witch" is bad in real life, but in the context of the setting are you actually bad for doing this considering the witch is real? Are YOU the bad guy for helping them escape persecution? You have to make the distinction between reality and fiction, otherwise you get shit like people saying "the imperium are the bad guys" in 40k because they are racist against Orks.

>>96379683
I dont think anyone is making the argment that the heaven side in this are wholesome good, but they are definately the good guys considering the context of what they are up agianst in the universe its set in.

>>96324647
>or we can use ageless axioms like "humanity's triumph is a virtue" to calibrate a simple moral compass
Words only a guy with no high school diploma could type

>>96379820
Shut up and bow to your tranny demon lord!
>Starship troopers
Stop being an autistic faggot.
One should not empathize with insects, they are disgusting, they are insects.
The movie is about propaganda about war by a militaristic government, obviously inspired by U.S. governments and their 200 years of continuous wars, that is the problem, not the bugs themselves.
The bugs didn't make the attack and even if they did an asteroid doesn't suddenly appear, the government obviously should have known for years/months, so the bugs could be as evil as you want, but the government intentionally let millions of people die to have a casus belli.
Stop being a child and start understanding the points of and argumebt.

Ah. The good v. evil schizo has returned. How long before he catches a vacation as he invokes /pol/?

>>96268995 (OP)
Does this system work in Foundry? I kinda wanted to try it and Pathfinder has gotten a bit stale.

>>96380219
On tabletop simulatore works fine.
I don't know about foundry.

>>96380173
Why is starting a war against bugs bad.

>>96380323
>Why lie to the people to send them die in a fucking planet in the other part of the galaxy for unknown reasons is bad?

>>96380173
You lack the capacity to understand the point being made it seems; Why is it bad to fight monsters, even working with the premise that it is a false flag, why is it bad to fight the bugs, the bugs have ambition to spread, theyre already in contact with humans. Why are the christians morally gray because they give everything theyve got to fight evil and actively contribute to this rather than let the actual bad guys be the aggressor.
>They should just turn the other cheek and try to coexist with the demons
Yea and then everyone die and hell wins. You are not the bad guy because you want to actually defeat the enemy.

Also I never claimed that the ST movie wasnt about militarism being bad, but we dont live in a timeline where giant bugs that infest whole planets till they are the only life on it exist, I think our morality might be different if it did. Hell, I think our morality would change if ANY alien life existed and had goals that were juxtaposed to our own, treat fiction in the context of its setting, even when its trying to say something about out modern reality, in THEIR reality things are different.

>>96380334
>Lie
Missed the part about the false flag attack being speculation. The humans should just wait for the bugs to spread throughout space before they do something about them? Assuming the premise that is actually was a false flag attack, Ill just say it, they were right to do it to get people to get behind the war instead of being wishwashy and discussing the morality of fighting literal space monsters that eat people. Wipe them out, secure peace forevermore.

>>96380360
>>They should just turn the other cheek and try to coexist with the demons
Dude. Take your meds. Without them you're hallucinating things no-one has ever said outside of the strawmen that live in your head.

>>96380334
The problem is that the future in the movie shows a united humanity...so what theyre doing actually works and is good for everyone.

>>96380372
Ah. Your mental illness makes sense then. You don't believe in morality, only subjective right-wrong.

>>96380379
Wait. Are you honestly believing both the false-flag operation and that the one world government isn't lying about anything else?

>>96380374
What the fuck are you talking about, in TC they are actual demons, from hell, led by Satan, they arent just guys in costumes and Hell is just an allegory. In ST the bugs are a hivemind on other planets controlled by ravenously hungry brain creatures that suck peoples insides out through a straw, and its minious have swords for limbs and bladed vice grips for mouths with 6 eyes and are mindlessly violent creatures that are litteral bugs with no souls. STOP EMPATHIZING WITH THE MONSTERS ANON, THEY ARENT HUMANS.

You're swapping between TC and ST as you like w/o respect to the conversation. How are you arguing in good faith? Why do I still think anyone who starts talking about its okay for Good Guys to do anything they like as long as the Bad Guys are BAD is going to go down any path but this one?

>>96380388
What do you think right and wrong is based on, you fucking moron, there IS a subjective right and wrong, thats what makes morality, you are actiny like morality has a universal value and doesnt change from place to place from culture to culture. Different cultures have different rights and wrongs even among humans, but YOUR morality is the one you consider subjectively right because its the one YOU hold, if that is the one you say is right, the ones that say otherwise are wrong. You complete fucking spastic.
For example;
>I believe in womens rights
So you disagree with Muslim countries and their morality. Their morality dictates they be second class because they are temptresses that lead men to sin. For fuck sake, they even call them "morality police" because they are there to uphold THEIR morals. Which is what THEY consider right and wrong.

You read a philosophy book and think you get philisophy, there is a difference between reading something and understanding it. Morality is subjective, the parameters change from place to place, it is not a nebulous universal value. To bring that back to TC, how are the christians morally gray when they are upholding their moral values within the setting and are in opposition to those that go against it.

>>96278811
Kinda
I've been able to effortlesly get five(5!) of my friends into wargaming by showing them Trench Crusade and even get one of them into miniature painting. We're playing regularly now and they're always super hyped for it. These are people who were into nerdy shit and even found wargaming kinda cool before, but never shown much enthusiasm for trying it before TC, no matter what game I told them about.

>>96380421
They aren't being immoral. It is you who is being immoral who keeps saying Christians can do no wrong in the fight against Satan.

>>96380421
>Muslim countries and their morality. Their morality dictates they be second class because they are temptresses that lead men to sin
Did you mean Chrisitian countries? The female emancipation is a recent (<100 years) phenomenon.

>Threadly reminder

There is no reason for you to engage with anything that resembles a concern troll repeating past statements for the sake of replies. Hide their posts and go on with your day. Let them scream about their schizo fantasies of a benevolent facist government that can do no wrong to the void.

>>96380417
Noone said they do anything they like, they arent morally gray for trying to win against literal hell, your implication is that they are just like hell and do obscene awful shit but are just a different faction color, its a wholly incorrect image. One side requires you rape and murder, the other requires you put and end to that, in such dire times I think a bit of enthusiasm for putting and end to the rapist murders is not morally gray because it involves killing, but a rightous because it involves killing them. They cant rape and murder if theyre dead.

Remember, angels set foot on earth, hell sends forth its actual lords of hell, the heaven factions are trying to win without resorting to just going to devil magic for the sake of victory, they have not got literal magic and ethereal beings on their side, they have to use performance enhancing drugs and make proxies of jesus for him to speak through so he can help without technically being on earth. The setting is grimdark, but the good and bad sides are pretty neatly defined between the heaven vs hell factions, you need to make an argument for why heaven is morally gray in the context of the setting if youre going to do that, and why hell is actually good if they arent outright evil.

>>96380430
What have they done wrong, again, within context of the setting. Even metachrist seems fine as its the only way jesus can give aid without being there directly, because being there directly would give the go ahead for hell to start sending demon lords to earth. Yes, metachrist is blasphemy in reality, in the setting where its the fucking end times and they need to start working with what they have, taking drugs to talk to angels isnt so bad.

Like the post above. Putting words in other people's mouths then demanding they defend a position they never stood for. These people aren't here to talk about the setting, they have escaped the /pol/ containment and only want to feel good by performing mental gymnastics to believe their opponent is speaking for something they never said. Why should anyone humour them?

>>96380360
>>96380372
Stop comparing TC and ST, they are two differenti IP with different themes and reasons of exist.
They have mostly nothing to do with each other, just stop.
>ST
Again, the movie is not about the bug, and we do not know shit about them if not only want the propaganda of a DYSTOPIAN state tell us.
That is what the movie talks about about a bunch of guys going to die without knowing WHY.
It was talking about the next US war, the invasion of Iraq started with no real casus belli.
Most veterans complained that they has no clue why they were there, and what happened was a disaster for every faction involved, US lost a bunch of money and men and got nothing in exchange, Iraq, that was not a religious state, endend in hands of religious militias and Isis etc etc.
Who had real gains for It? Who knows.
We don't know.
The propaganda said that Saddam was the bad guy and burgers, who produces a lot of democracy, went there to export some democracy.

That is what it talks about, you have NO IDEA if that war is "good or bad" because the PROPAGANDA lies to you and indoctrinated you to go to die without knowing WHY.
>The asteroid
Again, two cases
>False flag
>Bugs did It, bug an asteroid does not appears on your head magically, the govermnent knew it was coming and did not evacuate Buenos Aires
In both case govermnent lied to have a casus belli for a war paying the price millions of civilian deaths.
This is what the movies talks about and it was based on US history and incoming near future.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRENCH CRUSADE

>>96380494
>>96380471
Metachrist is also a point of contention in lore, some TP factions dont get Communicants because they disagree with it, but ultimately god doesnt seem to consider this a sin because the sides that still use them still get god powers like ressurection and foresight.

>>96380446
See, youre doing that thing where you think someone talking about these things in fiction means its what they want in reality, that its their fantasy to bring it about because they like it in a game. You give yourself away as a either political brain rot faggot, or a woman that thinks fiction is just an outlet for what you want to enact in reality. Dry your eyes.

>>96380532
You ignoring the part where he claims all muslims must inherently hate women? You ignoring the part where his political pre-conceptions invade his arguements?

>>96380503
>such a pansy he thinks not linking posts is like pushing the other person out of the room so you can have the mic
Im trying to talk about this in context of the game and you keep trying to swerve to talk about the concept of morality. The moment you have no response you just start insulting the entire argument as though youre above it. You were wrong anon, and youre not on reddit where you start appealling to the rest of the users mid argument for upvotes you fucking faggot.
>also say there are no "good guys" in your setting despite the antagonist faction being demons from literal hell
This was the initial argument that Ive never veered from addressing, the sides are clearly defined, the heaven faction is the good guys, the hell factions are the bad guys. Where are you getting that there are no good guys when its the heaven factions. You keep saying this but dont quantify it, infact, I had to quantify it by saying the metachrist is a point of contention in the setting, but the argument can be made in setting for why this isnt blasphemy(again, in the setting, I know you haveint taken your ritalin and cant digest a post past a single sentence).

Basically; The rules change when a gun is pointed to your head etc, the morality IN THE SETTING changes from our own and what is good changes when you are fighting demons and those that follow them and they can conjure fire balls, raise the dead and have more advanced technology than you.

>>96380542
Seems you read the sentence but didnt comprehend it. I didnt say muslims hate women, I said they have a different moral view of them that is in conflict to yours. See how you take that and assume that means they hate them? Funny how aggressive certain moral positions are viewed when its viewed from the outside. Apply this to the setting, imagine being a christian, and the opposition is in the trench on the other side raping one of your friends, you think this is bad I assume, where on the other side, them raping is good from their moral perspective, what, you just want to stop them from having a good time and tell them what to do and not have fun? Thats anti freedom, which is bad! Why serve god when you can kneel before a demon and get super powers, those cucks are fools, you still have to kneel I just get super powers and can rape whoever I want.

You look at their morals as "hate" where they just see it as doing whats good. What is the bad things the christians have done that makes them morally gray.

Amazed how angry you get when someone refuses to talk to you. You aren't on 4chan for civil discussion. You just want a place to say whatever you want and feel that you're right. You have no position but that you are objectively right and won't accept that you could not be. There is nothing to talk about because in the end you are here to jerk yourself off about how everyone but you is stupid. Please. Return to your private forum of choise and mutually jerk yourself and your internet friends off by talking about how everyone you just met was stupid and how you totally owned them with facts and logic.

>>96380623
Ok.
What did the christians do that is morally gray.

>>96380598
Can you stop shitposting?
Argue on reddit if you want. You already repeated the same things here for days.
Go here, this is my last reply:
https:// www. reddit .com/r/TrenchCrusade/s/gWujWRD9aC
TC is a grimdark setting where everyone is nut and everything is grotesque.
Christians are freaks, Irish are freaks, Muslims are freaks and so on, it is Grimdark and metal, therefore it is offensive for the sensible people and, sadly, not as metal as it should have due wokeness and fear of cancellation.
Muslisms could have bene 100x cooler, maybe they will be in the future.

Demons are not the good boy, it was never hinted anywhere.
The only thing they said about "we don't know who the good boys are" is something like "we don't know and we will never know for the sake of the settings " who is right about God, Christians, Muslims, Jews or *ahem* pagans"

>But why people follows Demon lords
Because they are evil and believe in the twisted truths and powers they lend to them or out of necessity.

>>96380623
>make assumption about the game
>told to youre wrong
>say youre not wrong
>asked to quantify your position
>no, Im right and youre just wrong
>proceed to not even talk about the game
You havent read anything about this game have you, you made an assumption, but cant defend it. Youre anonymous here, youre not on reddit, you just had to not respond when you couldnt give an answer.

>>96380648
>being wierd makes them bad
huh?

>>96380657
Ok I lied I answer again.
You are retarded.

>>96380653
Ignore him, he's not trolling, he's just dumb.

>>96380697
Does that make me a bad guy or what?

>>96380648
I wouldnt say they are freaks, I think the art itself is where this is stemming from as when you step back from the art NA is turbo normie, in its units and lore(exception of Ire, who are distinctly pagan) I think the perception that the christians would be morally gray is based almost entirely on TP, and the IS has manufactured creatures which is a bit questionable. I always just saw the christians and especially NA as pretty definitively the good guys, with TP being the morally gray ones because theyre paramilitaries that work independent of anyone and serve different interpritations of god rather than a unifed one like NA, so thats where the moral gray would come in.

>>96379821
>making the argment
Now it makes sense, this is just an ESL take

>>96380360
Meds now, schizo-kun

>>96380446
Unfathomably based

>>96380219
Foundry is more meant for RPG's than wargames, it's not out of the realm of possibility it could work, but you'd have to do a decent bit of system work

It's saturday can somebody make a containment thread so we dont have to deal with weekend schizos

>>96380532
>ultimately god doesnt seem to consider this a sin

If god doesn't see it as a sin then the god of trench crusade isn't the Christian understanding of god.

>>96380494
They're literally blasphemous, and torture children

>>96380568
That's against the teachings of Christ and Christian morality. The point of faith is that it remains even if it is hard. IF your morality is situational, you are not a faithful Christian

>>96382384
Old Testment would consider new testament blasphemy, it only isnt because the Pope says so by upholding it.

>>96382435
Because christianity has never done anything like that to children
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade
>sold them into slavery when they couldnt make it to their destination
>everyone returns home and goes back to normal
If they put this into the setting it would be blasphemy? It wasnt blasphemy in real life lol.

I thought you were done with this shit. The christians in this are not "morally gray" in the context of this setting the same as they werent morally gray in the context of history, you are doing that shit that woke people do where they apply their modern lense to fictional setting and decree problems with it based on the fact that the morality in the fictional world does not adhere to the morality of the real one. Everyone seems to be a fundamentalist christian when talking about this game, its really fascinating. Im not going to continue this because its arguing in circles, you disagree that they are the good guys, I say they are, so Im just going to agree with you; Yes, the game is subversive and blaspehmous to christianity, you should leave if that offends you, because its not going to change.

>>96382587
>Old Testment would consider new testament blasphemy, it only isnt because the Pope says so by upholding it.

Right but old testament god and new testament god are different versions or interpretations. You can't claim the trench crusade god is the new testament version of god and all the entails.

>>96382587
You're right I wouldn't describe the crusaders who took children and sold them into slavery morally gray I would just call them evil lol.

>>96382718
yes christians are evil. There is no way to make them the good guys in this game and I dont know why people are taking issue with them being morally gray when christianity is the biggest evil of humanity in history. All this shit game is doing is painting lipstick on a pig. There should be pagan factions that arent shitty irish wood niggers and aetheists who are the actual good guys because they reject both sides.

Any ranges or prints to recommend for TP nuns? Looking over my list it seems like they are pretty important, I was even going to use them but it seems like they are basically your main damage dealers.

>>96382718
Congrats. You finally found the trigger point for >>96382587 to turn him into >>96382928
Now stop feeding him and let him piss blood over how badly he lost the arguement in peace. Knowing his fragile fantasy of how morality works was proven indefensible and all he can fall back on is ironic dismissal.

>>96320368
>In Starship Troopers, the movie not the book, the asteroid was a false flag.
No it fucking wasn't, even Verhoeven said in the special features/bts for the movie that it wasn't a false flag.

>>96383488
Nah, Arch was just right about this game. Its a spit in the face of christianity because it portrays them for the evil they are in real life, always have been, from pedophile priests to demanding people pay money to let their family into heaven, the game is just holding a mirror up to that. At least the devil worshipers dont pretend they arent doing evil shit when they do evil shit. The christians will burn you are the stake AND take your money for the privelege of dying by their hand so they can pay off their leader who diddles little boys, just like real life.

>>96383626
Think you need to go back and suck on Arch's teat, little boy. You're suffering from obvious malnutrition from lack of his shit-tainted milk.

>>96320368
>In Starship Troopers, the movie not the book, [HEADCANON]

>>96383679
What a thoughtful response that focuses solely on the mention of Arch and nothing else. You agree with him you idiot, youre both on the same page, the game is a subversion of christianity and does not try to make the christians out to be good guys, Archs only fault is he dropped the game when the creators spit in his face and we didnt. You only have to ask yourself if you give a fuck what christians think, I dont, thats why I like the christians in this being evil fuckers, it lets them do metal shit.

Okay. I've mindbroken you into ironic shitposting, I've had my fun. Get filtered.

>>96383679
Not him.
I don't think Arch is a retards, he's just deranged and angry after he was bullied and isolated by the nu-WH community, then he became lonely and obtuse and try to get a revenge against the cruel world that hates him and he hates it back.
The sad thing is that retards in a similar lonely condition try to emulate him quoting his - bad - analisys and conclusions as parrots.

>>96383763
>the game is a subversion of christianity

For it to be a Subversion of Christianity it would have to be calling out chritisianity specifically but it doesn't. At best it's a critique similar to "Whoever fights monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you" if it could even be said that the setting is trying to make a point.

>>96383878
I dont think its that at all, the christians do blasphemous shit like clone jesus and as someone else pointed out, mutilate children so they can be walking radios and put people into the cogs of machines where they will eventually die, just so they can harness their suffering as power. There is no "dont become the monster you fight", everyone is bad guys in this, theyre all monsters fighting monsters, but the christians are acting like they are doing evil for good. See this post? This has it right, the christians are evil.
>>96382570
If you have to resort to this shit even in the end times, you are evil. It doesnt suddenly become ok to mass torture people to please god just because times are dire and you think that will work.

>>96383985
There are literally christian factions in the setting that actively say that what the church in trench crusade is doing is wrong

>>96383985
>Christians are le evil!
>world is invaded by literal demons
Go suck a Indian dick Thomas you goofy faggot

>>96383985
>, but the christians are acting like they are doing evil for good

That's what everyone does anon. Everyone thinks what they do is good even if it's blatantly evil.

>>96384050
Great, and all this accomplishes is that the christian factions have an excuse to fight eachother as much as the demons, and yet god gives them bother favour. Cant be wrong to use the metachrist if youre getting blessing from god when you do it. Cavalcade rejects the metachrist, sure, but believes in animal sacrifice and wearing their blood, and god actually likes this too.

>>96384068
And? Why does that mean they cant be bad guys too, is it a moral good to kill demons? What if it involves doing blasphemous anti christian shit.

>>96384189
It's not just animal sacrifice, it's in literal reference to the biblical plague of death. Do you actually read the lore to the story, or are you trying to make it obvious your just here for trolling?

>>96384232
I know thats what it is anon, now ask yourself if it is morally good to kill animals to wear their blood to gain gods favour. What kind of master demands this and rewards it, christianity was always into evil shit like this. In the game do they have trucks of bow legged sheep kept weak and packed like sardines so they are easier to transport, where their only purpose is to have their throat slit so their blood can be drenched upon people to please god? Does this sound like the good guys to you?

>>96384281
Are you a vegan, by any chance?

>>96384305
Nope, I would think that all civilized men who are of sound mind would take issue with killing an animal just to wear its blood and not for food or because its a threat.

>>96384666
>>96384666
>>96384666

>>96382587
>it wasn't blasphemy in real life lol
The Blasphemy comes from creating a metachrist, not torturing children. Torturing children is satanic though and goes against Christ's teachings, so anyone doing it is not a true Christian

>>96383679
I accept your concession