Thread 96307399

The titan judges you edition

Previous thread:>>96301251

Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books Scanned:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition upon us to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Got anything to show for yourself?

>>96307399 (OP)
Are there specific Titan Legions associated to each Marine Legion?

>>96307430
Is left pic just fucking stretched really weirdly, or does the proportions just look off?

The shoulder pads in particular look like a really strange shape.

The new helmet looks a bit more derpy as well.
The older one has this nice aggressive look to it, but the new one has the funny little snoot and larger, friendlier looking eyes

>>96307445
Kinda but there's plenty of overlap and plenty of legions that did their own thing.

Does anyone know what the communication word bearers used to bypass the ruinstorm at calth was called again? I thought it was warp bottle but it's not coming up in a quick search of tempest

>>96307452
New derp vs old hotness.

>>96307452
The scan has the page bent so the proportions are altered. I also scaled the images to get them roughly the same size in a rush, so that stretched it further. I don't really like the new helm in the pic as much either, but the look of it on the apothecary is fine, so I have some hopes for the plastic.

>>96307475
>Does anyone know what the communication word bearers used to bypass the ruinstorm at calth was called again?
bullshit.

>>96307452
Well, the WE pic is clearly curved due to the page, makign it look thinner. But the proportions ARE different, the new guy is chonkier all around, personally I feel like it's an improvement. I like how it ties in closer to Indomitus armor

>>96307485
I found this pic which isn't distorted (I think) which still looks weird. I unno, a lot of the new model designs look slightly weird in my opinion.

>>96307496
Are Red Butchers any good this edition? They were dogshit in 2.0 right?

When I first saw this model I thought it would be great for a heavy weapon guy because the proportions make it look like it's hunched forwards and the extended intake on the top looks like its made for compensating for increased energy consumption, so that's why I did this conversion, even after so long.
I guess it would be a siege tartaros with plasma blaster in 3.0 or an armistos with some oddly large artificer armor otherwise.
It looks cool.

Are World Eaters the most expensive army to properly play? In order to play them lore accurately, you have to give a shit ton of tactical squad kits chainaxes and bolt pistols, and those don't come cheap. On Etsy, for example, a set of ten chainaxe arms and ten bolt pistol arms costs $31. Per ten marines. For an army that is meant to field a multitude of such despoiler squads. Not including shipping

>>96307520
They are maybe good this edition? At the very least they are no longer garbage like 2e, yeah.

They now have EW(1) which is a HUGE and much needed buff for them against other termies and such.
Legacies also gave them weapon options back, which is nice.

>>96307534
White Scars can be pretty fucking expensive, jetbikes don't come cheap. Now imagine fielding 30 of them

>>96307534
Just play tank heavy world eaters.

>>96307549
$65 MSRP for 3 jetbikes isn't as bad as it could be.

They're not as $ efficient per point as terminators, but jetbikes are VERY easy to make expensive. Command squads, characters, etc.

>>96307534
Yes.
You gotta buy assault/despoiler squads, then load up on chainaxes.
I plan to have 100 despoilers, about half way there so far.
I buy my chainaxes in bulk from my recaster, but getting someone to 3d print them would probably be cheaper - I actually prefer the phobos chainaxe more than the STL's I have seen, since its a simple but nice design, looks good but is easy to paint enmass.

in 3e, while less fluffy, its easier to field efficient WE since chainaxes are no longer an upgrade, but a marginal sidegrade. So if you want 'efficient' units instead of fluffy ones, you probably only want half to have chainaxes anyway (and the new assault squad kit coming with rediculously large chainaxes as stock).

>>96307531
I like it a lot anon. Paintjob is not to my taste but the conversion is great

This is now a world eater thread.

>>96307534
the price + time investment is there to make you pissed off enough to play like an actual world eater on the table. Trust the plan.

>>96307534
if you want to be accurate for world eaters, nightlords, salamanders and space wolves, you basically need to own a 3d printer yourself. Print shops are too overpriced for any army that isn't 90% generic and 10% upgrades. An impfist can use etsy because they only need like $20 of upgrades as they just look like standard marines mostly, while nightlords, world eaters and wolves need so many you need the printer itself.

That way you can print hundreds of chainaxes, shoulderpads, helmets, for a single bottle of resin. Shopping on etsy has never made any sense outside things that are used in small count. If you need 10 thunderhammers in total? Sure. If you need 50 of something, etsy is a bust.

>>96307531
Is that just wonky painting on the silver part of the left leg, or have you not sanded that smooth?

Looks cool otherwise anon

>>96307445
Not really
All the ones in the crusade of iron generally fought in the Galactic East around Ultramar so they have Ultramarine associates (particularly Legio Oberon).
Mortis was with the SoH all the time. ADB's personal masturbatory legio Audax hung out with the World Eaters. Demi maniples of legios were split up among the Expeditionary Fleets even more than the Legions (titans are rarer, much more resource intensive, and far more destructive). Any could have worked with any legio, but I suppose if you want a Heresy era force, you pair traitor legios with traitor legions (loyalist with loyalist).
> Could ANY legio be traitor/loyalist???
No, that's fucking gay, legios weren't even that big and a grandmaster of a legio could much more easily keep tabs on all his princeps. Once the Heresy was widely known, it is extremely unlikely a demi maniples of a legio would decide to just go against the rest of their legio, unless it's specific and documented exceptions shown in the lore (Legio Metallica was essentially empire building in some places and fought everyone, Legio Venator's home world based elements joined Archanus secessionist forces and forced legio Tritonis, the resistance of legio Tempestus on Mars before the total destruction of the legio's Mars loyalist forces, etc).

>>96307561
Thanks. I'm not a big fan of your haircut but your jawline is decent..

>>96307564
>alas, poor yorick, I knew him well...
I feel like I remember seeing that model before, a long time ago, without paint on it. Cool to see him fully done up

>>96307531
Oh boy I can't wait to see this aggressively mediocre model every fucking thread for the next month.... Yaaaaaay....

>>96307560
Chainswords are just as expensive, the melee weapons kit is $47 for ten chainswords and bolt pistols and a plethora of other power weapons

>>96307585
Paint something yourself

>>96307564
> Bitch tier skinny legs
Yuk and embarrassed for you lil bro

>>96307583
Bruh, some of these models I put together a LONG time ago, but then life got in the way so I didn't really do any hobby for years (other than increasing my pile of shame occasionally).

I've gotten properly back into the hobby now, and am pumping out more dudes - still slowly, but no longer in geological terms.

>>96307569
Where can you get a printer that can do such things for $200 or less?

>>96307590
I do and will continue too, I'm also polite enough not to post my work constantly. Is this some attention seeking thing? Big Yikes! If so lil bro

>>96307564
Gee, reasonably sized axeheads?

>>96307564
>World eaters have become so popular that they're now a normie legion

Fuck, time to pick a new legion, I'm not playing world eaters if they become popular

>>96307599
An old refurbished Mars 1 or 2 is cheap as shit these days

>>96307594
>swollen scale crept models that keep getting larger, with bigger and bigger weapons

I feel for you bro. I have achieved inner peace by sticking with the old FW range.

>>96307606
And these can print out gaming shit for cheap? Good quality?

>>96307583
>>96307597
The latest bunch. Mooncake tins a great when you magnetise your models.

>>96307597
Well they look pretty darn good to me anon so time well spent? Glad to hear you're increasing your production, I spent all of 2.0 waffling between various projects and getting like half an army (read: ~60 infantry models and basically nothing else) done.

>>96307616
>gee brother, why do you get TWO chainaxes?

>>96307577
that's the same thing my ex said

>>96307520
They look pretty good this edition. Ravening madmen is still dumb but they basically take 1D from most weapons that are meant to kill terminators so that's great. And the axes went from being shit to Initiative -1 Ap2 against other terminators essentially. And they get +1A with them on top of the +1A they still get from their LA. It's pretty great for not that many points

>>96307615
Decent yeah, something like 2K xy resolution and 25 micrometers z resolution, you get print lines that primer mostly covers

7 primarchs on the way and there's nothing capeshit-haters can do to stop me!

>>96307608
Hey man I can't help your shit taste, likely the little skinny leg models. Does it make you feel seen because they skip leg day like you lil bro?

>>96307662
>my minis need to be as beefy and bloated as possible or people will think I'm a loser :(
this is just troonscaling but on the X-axis

>>96307674
> Working out your legs
> Makes you think of troons
Something you want to tell the class?

>>96307621
Looking good anon, SoH are definitely my 2nd favorite legion behind WE.

I'm going to buy some of the MK2 heads and try to do greenstuff recasts of them.
Wish me luck.

>>96307430
That's new art of the old design. Look at the backpack and feet. Especially the feet. You can see the difference between the old and new mk4. For some reason they made a bunch on new plates of the old mk4 and mk5 designs in the core book and libers.

>>96307679
use blue stuff to make molds, not green stuff

>>96307615
>buy resin 3d printer to save money
>get cancer from the fumes

Just buy from Etsy, poorfag. Cough up the money.

>>96307682
Right, but don't you put greenstuff into the molds?

>>96307662
>>96307676
I like them because they actual scale well with vehicles/dreads, which never underwent the scale creep infantry had. Then on top of infantry scale creep, basically every melee weapon that isn't a sword got doubled in size, yet their little baby trump hands actually got smaller? I unno, its weird, but you are entitled to your leg fetish anon :^)

>>96307604
I know right? The new ones are fucking ABSURDLY massive to the point I find it really distracting. Same with the power axes. I tried out the new ones and they're just abnormally huge, they make no sense as a one handed weapon.

>>96307588
You can just buy assault squads, and soon despoiler squads, and get everything you need in one kit (if you ae using the modern range).

>>96307691
Sure, you can also use 2 part resin tho at that point you might as well make a proper mold with one of those casting kits

>>96307615
>>96307637
>>96307690
>>96307691
I have a guy in my city who 3d prints bits, mainly 30k bits. usually 0.5 NZD per bit (shoulderpad/weapon/etc), and the quality is great.

>>96307605
>World eaters are popular

Last I checked, they're white in the HH How could they be...popular?

>>96307702
...despoiler squads are getting their own standalone kit???

>>96307702
>Same with the power axes.
I agree with not liking the new huge chain axes but fuck the FW power axes, I don't care if it was more realistic or historical or whatever the gap looks retarded and makes it more fragile to boot, give me the nu solid axe head any day

>>96307744
Yeah I don't like those mk4 ones either - use the ones f rom the mk2/mk3 weapon set, they look nice.

>>96307744
Attach the blade upside down and it'd be a glaive lol. Linda like those kopesh blades TS carry in Visions

>>96307735
oh sorry, the mk2 one is still an assault squad.
I don't really keep track, since I magnetise mine to be assault or despoiler anyway.

>>96307825
...you do realize you won't be able to magnetize the MK2 assault squads due to the "straps" on the jump packs, right? It's like they designed the kit with that in mind, to make you buy more kits to make despoilers.

>>96307856
I use fw resin models and they magnetise fine, so i don't personally care, I was just telling anon there was (what I thought was) a plastic desppiler kit in the modern range.

>>96307810
yeah but they're resin so they're rubbish that either need to get bent back into shape or clipping off the flash breaks the blade.
The best axes are from the 40k assault/vanguard marines.

>>96307679
greenstuff is ass. Too sticky, non-sandable and lots of flaws. One secret is to mix 50% greenstuff with 50% milliput, then it stops being super gluey to everything it touches and becomes sandable and better able to hold sharp lines like space marine armor.

2 part resin is far cheaper for bulk recasting, since you get 2 big jugs instead of tiny bars of greenstuff/milliput, but as it's a liquid you can't use it conveniently in basic bluestuff molds from my experience, you need to cut channels for air to escape and use a vibration machine to shake bubbles out of the liquid and all kinds of hassles. Not worth it with liquid resin for a few space marine heads unless you want to make a row of 10-20 heads and make a thousand of them like a recaster shop would.

>>96307872
I unironically prefer resin now.
A while ago that would have sounded insane to me, but I find it easier to work with, and you can do cooler things with it.

Being able to shift poses/manipulate hands etc is actually really nice, and cleanup on resin for me is far more enjoyable that dealing with fucking mold lines and shit on plastic - and the detail is simply better.

There are exceptions of course. Very large models are a lot of work to death with - plastic tanks are far superior. And a few super thin things (like fucking falax blades) do break easily.

Just bending a wonky axe is easy as piss though. Flashing just needs proper tools instead of trying to snip it right away.

>>96307920
you're right, Anon, you sound insane.

I think backfield objectives can be held fine by HSS, Rapiers, Snipers and Tacticals

>>96307926
Yeah, I definitely don't think the majority of people would share my view, but after doing lots of resin guys, then going back to plastic marine kits, I really did surprise myself by liking the resin more.

Probably the most notable kit was going from plastic contemptor to resin one. They are basically identical models, but the plastic one comes in far more pieces (easier to glue together since its plastic), which means there are lots of gaps and seams to fix.
The resin one is harder to put together (in the literal sense, posing it and super gluing it is a bit more fiddly) but doesn't suffer those problems, and prep overall was actually faster.

However putting together a resin spartan was... not particularly enjoyable, while the plastic spartan is an absolute dream.

>>96307920
based, I'm the same. esp in a world where nu GW models are 6 parts for a single leg with gates and mold lines on each fucking piece. gimme chynuh resin or gimme death

>>96307927
Anybody putting objectives near a board edge is insane. There shouldn't be backfield objectives if both players have at least half a brain.

Objectives are now placed before rolling the deployment map, and before the roll off for who gets to pick deployment zone. Putting objective markers near a board edge is a good way to lose the game at the deployment roll off point.

>>96307918
>One secret is to mix 50% greenstuff with 50% milliput, then it stops being super gluey to everything it touches and becomes sandable and better able to hold sharp lines like space marine armor.
I see, thank you for the information.

>HH death guard
>they don't get nurgle-y until the siege and don't have rules for that

What the fuck is the point of playing HH death guard, then?

>>96307976
Because Death Guard are way cooler and interesting before they turned into the uh oh stinky marines.

>>96307636
they look okay. Not great, not horrid. They're still expensive initiative 3 fighters that enemy hits on 3+ even with WS4 terminators of their own instead of hitting on 5+ like other terminators of that points cost.

That means +100% more hits suffered from the enemy which instantly cancels out EW1 entirely and then some considering EW1 is useless against D1 weapons like lightning claws that might be mixed in.

Ravening Madmen is also a nerf because they can't be joined by your other characters, so Kharn or a Legion Champion can't come to give the unit initiative 5 oomph instead of their in3. No apothecaries/chaplains joining to stop grav guns from immobilizing overpriced red butchers forever, etc.

They're probably not entirely worthless (they're not Siege Tyrants), but they're a situational take rather than an auto-include. Have to carefully compare to just taking non-insane WS5 terminator elites that can be joined by other characters and that enemy struggles to hit and have vanguard(3) instead of zero vanguard/line. Or vanvets or plenty of alternatives that do pretty much the same thing.

>>96307986
>he doesn't even grimdark

All warhammer minis should be blanchitsu. And nurgle-y death guard are perfect for blanchitsu.

>>96307994
"Covered in poo poo" is not art, neither grimdark. Grow up.

>>96308024
John Blanche is going to break into your house and rape you.

>>96307994
they look better than heavy metal but still too cartoony for me

>>96308087
We need more one-handed bolters

>>96307976
to play them before they got nurgley, whats the problem?

>>96307967
Raffs in outflank/aeriel reserves

>>96307976
if you want the nurgle plague berserkers just use the rules of Gal Vorbak from word bearers.
They have bolters and the nurgly FeelNoPain5+ and the daemon possessed strength and toughness and movement, and they're Malefic so they're fearless like nurgle-possessed plague marines.
You can ally WB in just fine to stay tournament-level if desired and paint them as plague-infested.

>>96308101
the mk5 assault squad kit is so old that the hands are separate pieces from the bolt pistols/chainswords.
Normall this would be a pain in my ass but
A: I use chainaxes and pistols from the phobos kit so I don't care, and
B: it means I have all these hands, both left and right hand for BOTH guns and melee weapons, so its great for conversions, since I don't have to butcher a hand out of an existing weapon.

>>96308139
zazed...so fucking zazed....

>Horus Heresy
>claims to be capturing the feeling of old rules
>squad sergeants feel weak though
>terminators don't feel like gods
>they got rid of the vehicle penetration damage tables


Why are they lying?

>>96307965
Yeah, I can appreciate modern plastic GW having better dynamic poses, but it comes at the cost of customisation of old posable kits, AND everything is in loads of weird parts.

Probably the only resin cleanup I find annoying is on fiddly parts like mk.2 legs if there are mold slips, which are hard to sand down without destroying studs and stuff (literally no one else would even notice but me though)

>>96308160
They're talking about older rules

>>96308160
we have 4 leadership stats now consumer, its just like oldhammer, please buy.

>>96307967
If you place first and go near board edge, your opponent is incentivized to do similar to not have a coin flip game. Also is army dependent. If you bring a bunch of karacnos you probably want a backfield objective.

Give me the lowdown on tyrant siege termies anons. Are they really that bad relative to fulmentarus?
For 15 points over a regular cataphractii terminator with power fist you get essentially a lascannon on its back (that also have an anti-horde firing mode). Losing vanguard sucks for sure, but I don't see them being completely unusable like people seem to be saying

>>96308209
they're bad at literally everything. Bad shooting because they pay for WS4 powerfists they shouldn't be using, bad melee because WS4 powerfists and paying for shitty nerfed weaker teemu-lascannons.

>>96308209
They're fine. IWfags are just upset that siege tyrants can't delete every vehicle including super heavies in a single shooting phase any more.

No vanguard means they're better for holding down objectives too.

>>96308226
non-IW players know they're bad, you're just a fucking retard child

>>96308209
The problem is no one needs a terminator with a lascannon - you can just take a terminator squad and a lascannon squad and not have to deal with the fact that a terminator squad needs to be in melee to make it's points back while a lascannon squad wants to stay as far away from melee as possible

>>96308226
>better for holding down objective
>support squad (1)
Lying cunt

>>96308209
As other anons have said, its now a very over priced, compromise unit.

You're never getting the max benefit of a unit like tyrants (by design, which is good, when they have good melee AND good shooting) but now their shooting is pretty mid, while still being very expensive.

So they're not terrible, they're just really not worth the points from a competitive/efficiency stand point.

>>96308252
Seriously, they'd be so much better if you just took heavy off their guns. Don't even need to replace it with base stats, just take off heavy and you have something resembling an actually intelligently designed unit since they can then fire twice with implacable advance

>>96308224
>>96308236
>>96308252
I appreciate the analysis, I guess what's mostly confusing me is what makes them worse than fulmentarus (who seem to suffer the same overall problem)

>>96308255
What >>96308254, fulmentarus guns don't have heavy so they actually function as a terminator should bringing heavy firepower in the move and wanting to be chargining, even if their big missile is worse than tyrant siege

>>96308160
Are you are a trve hh player, you will continue giving your sergeants clpse combat gear despite having one attack. Why? Because it's SOVLFUL

>>96308255
I mean, they're honestly both fairly bad, whether one is slightly less bad than the other isn't that much of a deal.

>>96308273
I feel like it's going to take forever for me to relearn all the new specials rules and traits and so on, thanks for your help anons

>>96308289
I'm giving my sergeants close combat weapons because they all get turned into master sergeants. Two attacks with WS 5 is a real game changer with troops fighting one another.

>>96308289
Making the sergeants 1 attack was such a god awful change.
Giving a tac sarge was never a GOOD idea, but it was always fun, and would at least give them a sporting chance to do something funny. 1 attack means it really is just entirely pointless.

I need some fresh eyes on this army to see if it's actually somehow unfun to play against/broken because I've played three games with it and my opponents always find something to complain about:

High Command
>Praetor with jump pack & thunder hammer

Command
>Centurion

Retinue
>10x Praetorian command squad with jump pack & dual lc

Troops
>20x Tactical squad
>20x Tactical squad

Elites
>10x Veteran tactical squad with volkite chargers
>10x Veteran support squad with rotor cannons

Transports
>Rhino
>Rhino

War-engine
>Deredeo with arachnus
>Castra ferrum with 2x dual lascannon

>>96308337
Seems pretty tame. What's the issue(s) your opponents are coming up with?

>>96307856
git gud at modelling

>>96308337
Doesn't look problematic to me. Your opponent sounds like a whiny little bitch.

>>96308337
Honestly it sounds really boring what's your opponent having trouble with?

>>96308343
>>96308350
each one of them has either taken an av14 vehicle or a ton of meltas or a bunch of laser destroyer rapiers or a combination of the lot and said they got beat in list construction bc they have no way of dealing with 80 dudes in power armor while spending like half their army on antivehicle that I will just ignore
that and they can't contest any objectives I'm on

>>96308369
That sounds like a them problem just act smug about how nobody can counter an infantry list

>>96308337
What Legion though?

>>96308369
Yeah ok, anon you have no issue then.
Your opponents are literally complaining that their unbalanced AT tailored list sucks because you haven't taken tanks. They can go suck a fat one and come back with an actual balanced list.

>>96308369
brb gonna take a list that deliberately has only anti infantry and no anti tank, then complain my opponent is a waac cheating hacker because he has a few tanks that I have no way of dealing with.

>>96308369
'fraid this is what we in the biz call a "skill issue"
This is why you deep-stike saturnines or a volkite vet squad or destroyers

>>96308369
>local man has bullshit unfair list because he has lots of power armoured models in a game solely centered around lots of power armoured models and their opponent didn't think being able to fight lots of power armoured models
Yeah ok anon, time to stop listening to those nerds.

>>96308369
Been doing the same thing. There just is no reason to interact with big expensive tanks, because they have zero interaction with objective markers. Honestly big expensive vehicles seem kinda pointless, except for transports.

>>96308387
>>96308394
>>96308395
How would you fight against an infantry heavy list like that? My vet-core collection couldn't.

>>96308382
night lords
wait what legion did you think I was playing judging from the photo?

>>96308380
>>96308387
>>96308394
>>96308395
>>96308398
I don't want to be the dude with the skew list so I just needed assurance from autists online.
I will be adding a falchion at 3k though

>>96308401
With how many points you can score in a given turn, I think you're right. If you are not actively scoring an objective or have a way of interacting with VP directly, you're kind of dead weight

>>96308419
>autists online
The biggest problem with your list is the naked centurion that's just boring.

>>96308405

Judging by the one game I've had in 3e so far, 27 Ursarax. Turns out 45 S6 lightning claw attacks blend pretty well even if they are WS4, nine of them picked up 20 tacs with one volley + charge. I should probably mix a few fists in though, just because S8 D2 is decent for medium armour and might mildly worry a terminator squad.

>>96308405
With an infantry heavy list of my own. Even if it doesn't work out, massed infantry armies duking it out is pure kino.

>>96308426
the characters both have trophies of judgment but I could probably drop them and do something else

>>96308405
Anon tf are you talking about veterans massacre infantry spam

I'm trying to figure out if Domitars are actually worth a damn. They seem like slightly more sensible Tyrant Siege - WS4 sucks, but they have cyclone launchers, 4 shot S6 D2 Breaching 5+ pinning guns and Implacable Advance/Firestorm, so each 100pt robot is at least putting out 8 D2 shots and a couple of rockets before charging with their AP3 fists. They're nice generalists, but I am slightly concerned that they'll get rinsed by WS5 elites, can't crack heavy armour and die fairly hard to dedicated AT weapons, which seems to be the trifecta of scary stuff this edition.

>>96308447
Not if they're slinging around basic equipment because I haven't sliced all their arms off.

>>96308451
You don't care about Terminators or elites, what you care about is massacring anything below a 3+ armor save that dares enter your gaze which they do very well even if you don't buff their WS and BS (which you should do). The only thing that ducks is sticking a cybertheurgist with them slows them down majorly between move 6 and losing fast, so you're going to need to run them behind in basic castellax blobs. 12" + 6" move should keep you pretty close, though you might have to take the -1 casting penalty for targeting out of LOS sometimes.

>>96308451
>WS5 elites, can't crack heavy armour
In the grim darkness of the 31st millenium, there are only ws5 termies and land raiders...

>>96308405
Panic (X)
Blasts

>>96308405
If you don't have things in your list to deal with large tac blobs and stuff, why are you playing 30k? Massed power armour to one degree or another is like the most guaranteed thing you'll see.
Any dedicated melee units should churn up basic marines in melee.
Volume of fire will churn em up at range.
Hell, even just throw a dread at a marine blob and it will eventually win, and until then will tie them up.

>>96308451
>>96308470
>>96308481
If you actually do need to deal with Terminators though take your pick from

>secutors, plasma will blast them and grav guns will strand them and their transports
>all 3 thallax special weapons fuck Terminators
>both variants of krios, one is AP2 and the other has big breaching blasts, both are low cost
>darkfire and multi-melta castellax will also eat them, and honestly so will big enough blobs of mauler castellax
>moirax, conversion beamers for long range and lightning locks for close range and grav pulsars for funny pinning 2
>karacnos for even funnier pinning 3 and 2 lightning locks as backup
>honestly, even with the melee nerfs power blade castellax, vorax, scyllax, domitars, and artalax can put in work, especially the latter when buffed with cybertheurgy considering they reach WS5 OR SIX

If 4+ is a save, and 4++ is an invuln, and 4+++ is a Feel No Pain, what's a shroud?

>>96308527
It's the same thing as a feel no pain, so a +++
(A "damage mitigation test")

>>96308527
A 4++++

>>96308531
Makes sense. Shroud is per wound though and not per damage like a FNP?

>>96308527
It's a sheet that's wrapped around corpses during their burial or disposal when coffins aren't available or desired.

>>96308536
I think FNP is no longer per damage but per attack. Had to go check but yeah, all damage mitigation saves are just another save, so you follow the same rules about discarding wounds.

>>96308567
Per wound not per attack FFS. Oops

>>96308337
I know that store. I always thought there heresy crowd there was pretty casual

>>96308337
is that a normal sized table, or a 40k table? just curious

You know, it's expensive (~400), risky, and unreliable, but warmonger + multimelta vets or big volkite vets can really fuck up things

>>96308594
why would you need to deepstrike volkite?

>>96308598
To kill one of >>96308337's tac blobs

>>96308451
Remember that a lot of admech support is about getting +1BS/WS on the units you want to perform that round with Guide

>>96308594
Just take a pod, same thing but cheaper

Does anyone know where I can find an STL for this venerable dreadnought head? I want to outfit all my vehicle crew with it

>>96308635
But is it cooler?
No.

>>96308659
Arriving in an orbital fireball is was cooler

>>96308659
you get instantly stunned or whatever if you get intercepted anon, its extremely dog shit, even compared to 2e, which was a dogshit version of its 1e existance.

Honestly thank you for reminding me warmongers exist, I was about to start looking at getting land raider explorators ro solve the issue of needing to hit backline squads but now I don't need to, I can just use members of my command squad as warmongers

>>96308700
Might want to put a master of descent in your list as well to guarantee the warmonger arrives in turn two. Relying on a reserves roll for a deep striking melee unit is not a good idea.

>>96308707
I wasn't actually thinking of melee units but a veteran tactical squad with shotguns, combi-gravs, and heavy flamers or a tartaros siege squad with chainfists and heavy flamers, but that's a good shout out since I already have a master of descent I converted and was planning on getting him an assault squad to live in. Maybe the deepstrike gameplan isn't so dead after all, as long as I'm not committing more than like 1k to it.

>>96308700
>>96308707
Enjoy being suppressed as soon as you land. Not taking a test, just instantly having it applied.

>>96308716
if the unit isn't terminators, just use a drop pod anon, there is genuinely no up side to the warmonger - its only niche is it can deepstrike terminators which otherwise wouldn't fit in a dreadclaw, and its cheaper than a kharybdis

>>96308716
Even better. But yeah I think deep strike is still a nice tool, but not one you should over-commit into. Looking into loading a squad of dreadwing intereptors into a drop pod myself.

>>96308720
What, are you some kind of loser that doesn't pass all saves?

>>96308720
>instantly having it applied
If they hit (4+), if they wound (4+), and you fail armor saves (2+ if the warmonger tanks it like a chad).

>>96308726
I've got a theme of no vehicles or immobile units, warmonger fits better even if it's worse

>>96308720
I'm playing word bearers son, that's only another D3 wounds, and only if I fail

>>96307986
>Because Death Guard are way cooler and interesting before they turned into the uh oh stinky marines.
Agreed, also fuck Calas.

>>96308737
they're snapshots, so probably hitting 5+ but uh, thats still a pretty big gamble when that 20 man tac squad rolls 60 attacks and you're hoping to not fail a single one.

>>96308739
well if its for the theme than thats fair enough, doubly so for WB

>>96307976
You just don't get it.

So, the sniper squads are Recons, Legacy Scouts, TS Mind-Killers, RG Mor Deythan and AL Effrit, right? Are snipers any good this edition? They seemed good last one. Pow, rending pinning. Even vehicles weren't safe. Maybe they were too good ngl

A question from Solar Auxilia players that print their minis: are the not-SA from red makers any good or are there better STLs you'd recommend?

>>96308816
Sniper have been seriously toned down, but rightfully so. Now only have precision on a 4+ to hit instead of always, and no longer do anything against vehicles.

>>96308236
>no one needs a terminator with a lascannon
Siege Tartaroi exist, the future is now, old man
>Siege Breaker can now wear terminator armour
I don't know why they did it. It was a win I wasn't even looking for

>>96308886
>Veteran breachers
>Veteran support squad
>Siege tartaros
>Characters and command squads on bikes that can upgrade the bikes' guns

There's more new stuff in the legacies than in the libers lmao

>>96308337
>>10x Veteran support squad with rotor cannons
Don't you need only a single rotor cannon? Don't make people wonder if there's something wrong with your list - make them CERTAIN there is MUCH wrong with it. No half measures, anon! >:D

>>96308886
Reaper autocannons are fucking garbage though

>>96308401
>There just is no reason to interact with big expensive tanks, because they have zero interaction with objective markers
This. I fear anti-AV14 guns are only found on dedicated tank hunters, which are tanks themselves...except maybe chainfisters, Rapiers and the odd Oops-all-meltabombs squad

>>96308910
I'm not normally a confrontational person but you need to know that I do not agree with your views on this.

>>96308910
They beat plasma blasters, it'll do good enough

>>96308972
>>96308981
Let me clarify anons.
It's garbage compared to 2e.
It used to be a autocannon side grade where you lost range for reroll to hits.

Now, the double barrel reaper autocannon is... and straight downgrade to a normal autocannon.
Lower range, lower strength, that's it.

So it's far less reliable, and it's notwhere near as useful against light/med vehicles with S6. Dunno why gw decided it needed a nerf.

>>96309026
It gained damage 2 compared to 2e, meaning each failed save is a dead terminator. Used to need at least 2 failed saves.
Also most ranged weapons are worse compared to 2e.

>>96309060
Add second barrel to gun:
Every other gun in the game: get more dakka in some way
Reaper autocannon: just gets worse

>>96309076
many such questions in this dumb edition

>>96309076
Autocannons should have been 1 shot, 2 shots when stationary. And less points.

>>96307496
Funny enough that's mostly nu mk5, but for some reason the feet are old and so is the powerpack

So weird

>>96308345
>he says, not gud at modelling

Do you put empty holsters on Despoilers anons?

>>96307521

Still genuinely depressing they never actually sold this. Easily one of the best space marine models they've done in over ten years. But no. Of course not. This is GW, we can't have them actually making things people genuinely want, can we?

>>96307479

Asked this in the last thread, but I guess I'll ask it here as well. What kind of backpack does the MkV use? It looks sort of similar to the MkIV's, but with more pronounced vents on the side balls of the backpack. Is it unique to it?

>>96308904

How many kinds of status inflicting weapons can we put in a single squad? I know Flamers cause Panic and various things but especially Graviton inflict Pinned. But is there anything we can equip onto a marine that causes Stun or Suppressed?

Basically, I want to force my opponent to keep making cool checks until he fails.

>>96309403
It's the same backpack as mk6

>>96309402
Even had a jumppack-less version

Small british company, please understand
Here are more ligma and units nobody asked for, because sprues are expensive and limited you know

>>96309403
Numk5 powerpack looks something like this

>>96309453
Why does that back pack have the gateway to Khorne's Magic Slaughter Land on it?

What's a good aggressive loadout for the Veteran Breachers? Do I want to take advantage of the 2a, or do I want to use the ranged options? Or should it be a toolbox?

>>96309514
Because it's from a character
and mk5 is THE WE armor mark

>>96307990
EW1 is there to make shooting them to death less efficient. Most anti terminator guns are D2.

As for melee, they're as durable as any other WS5 terminator against D2 but have more attacks

>>96307810
God those swords are ugly.

>>96308160
Imagine not being able to spam master sarge on every squad of infantry, couldn't be me.

>>96307399 (OP)
How does this look as a list anons?

>Crusade Detachment (Ultramarines): 290 pts
>Praetor w/ Thunder Hammer, Archaeotech Pistol (High Command): 150 pts
>Librarian w/ Argyrum Pattern Boarding Shield, Telekinesis/Biomancy (Command: Paragon of Battle): 140 pts

>Apothecarion Delegation: 355 pts
>Apothecary (Support: Logistics Benefit): 30 pts
>10 man Invictarus Suzerain Squad (Elite): 325 pts

>20x Primus Demi-Company
>Legion Optae w/ Legatine Axe, Argyrum Pattern Boarding Shield, Melta Bombs (Command: Paragon of Battle): 85 pts

>Lord of War Detachment: 625 pts
>Mastodon w/ Lascannon Sponsons, Searchlight (Lord of War): 625 pts

>Total: 2 970

>>96308160
>Why are they lying?
Because of how 10th edition was received

>>96309649
>20x Primus Demi-Company
There's a cap on the number of detachments you can take retard

>>96308369
Fuck the guys who are bitching anon, infantry spam is the heart and soul of this game and if they don't like it then they should play 1.0

>>96309649
>Deathstar of 20+ ICs in a superheavy
Why is 3.0 just herohammer 30k?

How should I be arming Rhinos this ed? I've been footslogging for the last edition so don't have any at all

>>96309688
Why do you want to stop footslogging?

Just keep the rhinoes naked. It's about the unit being transported. Though a havoc launcher is only 5 pts and does have a chance to apply a status effect, could be funny in combination with a melee unit charging out of it.

>>96309649
Looks like an excellent way to lose every game you play when 1 (one) gravgun pins your mastodon in its deployment zone forever.

>>96309649
This is even worse than the terminator death star in a spartan that HH players are so addicted to.

>>96309706
>>96309714
It's an illegal list anyway retards, you can't have that many detachments because you're limited by Command slots

>>96309688
Give them all dozer blades and Havoc Launchers, any other upgrades are for fun only.

>>96309718
Optae are command you troglodyte. Each optae gives access to another detachment that can have another optae, UM can have infinite detachments that way.

>>96309672
>>96309706
>>96309714
It's a shitpost list, I like the idea of modeling a bunch of ICs and throwing them at my enemy's warlord. Helps that Ultras get a gambit for +1 Focus for every Command sub-type on the field my Praetor is going to be automatically smacking first in challenges.

I've considered dropping the Mastodon for a Warmonger and even more Optae, but I'm not sure what I'd use as an anchor before they deepstrike onto the enemy warlord.

>>96309657
>>96309718
What >>96309724 said, Optae can pay for themselves when running Ultras.

>>96309724
>>96309728
>Optae can pay for themselves when running Ultras
There's no Command slots outside the initial detachment and any allied ones retards. And even if they were, prove you're actually allowed to have a unit 'pay for itself' because that's retarded as shit

>>96309718
Its ultramarines, they have a aux detachment called a Primus Demi Company which contains a prime command slot you can only give to an Optae.

That Optae can take his own auxiliary detachment, which can be another Primus Demi Company.

>>96309733
>The e-gimp is posting again

>>96309700

Yeah, Stun (1) means that they can't overwatch the unit when it tries to make a disordered charge from the rhino, and it makes the target I1 in combat.

>>96309728
>I've considered dropping the Mastodon for a Warmonger and even more Optae, but I'm not sure what I'd use as an anchor before they deepstrike onto the enemy warlord.
Can ICs attach to fellow ICs or do you actually need the Invictarus?

If you don't you could just go for the Praetor, Librarian, Warmonger (160 if you give him the axe+shield loadout) and 30 Optae for exactly 3k.

Just drop one of two out of the blob as your anchor and hide them in your deployment zone.

>>96309733
See here.
>>96309740
The Optae aren't paying for themselves they're paying for each other. If you have 1 aux detachment from crusade you can get 1 Demi Company Optae. Then that optae pays for an additional Optae until you run out of points or have enough.

>>96309740
>>96309743
It's explicitly only command in the original detachment retards.

Stop trying to herohammer this and go back to 10e

>>96309749
>The Optae aren't paying for themselves they're paying for each other.
Useless distinction, it's still not allowed retard

>>96309750
It is not, you need an ultramarine primary detachment to spam Optae so allied ultras cannot do it but you dont need to use a primary command slots since those are never mentioned. Please learn to read.

>>96309649
>>96309748
>Oops all Optae

>>96309753
Stop trying to excuse WAACfaging, it's obviously not intended or allowed

>>96309757
How is it WAACfagging when it's pretty much impossible to win with that list?

>>96309760
>Helps that Ultras get a gambit for +1 Focus for every Command sub-type on the field my Praetor is going to be automatically smacking first in challenges.

>>96309700
>>96309722
I can give my Breachers Rhinos now, so they can come off the shelf. And I'm using more TSS and squishy units this time around. The Havoc launcher sounds fun.

>>96309757
It is obviously not intended and I expect it to get Erata'd eventually but you're the one saying its not legal when RAW it absolutely is.

You can recognise something is stupid and still understand it is a thing which exists.

>>96309772
Breachers really looking decent now. Also surprisingly decent anti-tank with lascutters and a meltabomb on the sarge.

>>96309769
>losing the entire game to give 1 Praetor ASF.

The strat is overpowered because it gives you infinite prime slots you can use to take any unit you want with logistical and you also get infinite troops supports and fast attack by default.

The ability to spam optae so your Praetor can outspeed god is fucking irrelevant.

>>96309793
>UM praetor guaranteed to go fist in challenges
>Opponent just picks finishing blow
>UM praetor fails to kill opponent
>Opponent attacks back and pushing the UM's shit in with +1 strenght and damage

>>96309772
should I stick breachers in rhinos though?

I feel like they need to get up the board and a land raider, drop pod or storm eagle will get them there more reliably

>>96308507
>until then tie them up
>only 4 turns in the game

He's not gonna wind, he's gonna tarpit them

>>96309793
This was exactly what happened when Guilliman tried to introduce the Primus Demi-Company to the World Eaters

>>96309820
Tacticals and despoilers also need to get up the board, should you give them all land raiders?

The prime defence of the land raider is target saturation. Bring enough LRs and something WILL get through.

>>96309793
While we're comparing Optae meme lists, how does this look?

>Praetor w/ Thunder Hammer = 135 pts
>Siege Breaker = 115 pts
>10x Optae = 50 pts
>10x Rapier Battery of 3 each w/ Phosphex Quad Launchers = 225 pts

Exactly 3000 points

>>96309820
Yes. Land raiders cost way too many points to put a basic 10 man troops unit inside. Units can't score when inside a vehicle either, so all a Rhino has to do is drive forward once and its job is done.
For the points of one land raider you can bring a second unit of breachers and Rhino.

>>96309793
>The ability to spam optae so your Praetor can outspeed god is fucking irrelevant.
I think you could use it to win actually.

Take enough Optae to ensure you have de facto ASF and a Herald who goes round gaining as many Honour VPs as he can via challenges

>>96309826
>Guilliman desperately trying to explain the tactical and strategic versatility of an army of self sufficient demi companies.
>Angron won't shut up about +20 Focus letting him Trap enemy commanders in challenges until someone dies.

Sounds about right.

>Ultramarines were actually 90% Optae
So this is why there are so many Primaris Lieutenants once Guilliman came back

>>96309839
>Take enough Optae to ensure you have de facto ASF and a Herald who goes round gaining as many Honour VPs as he can via challenges
The only way this list is winning is if it encounters another Optae spam list for your Herald to eat

>>96309839
Going first doesn't matter if you lose the challenge because your enemy picked a gambit which makes them more dangerous.

>>96309860
Yeah but you have 30 Optae, one of them will eventually win the challenge.

>>96309832
It counters infantry spam but loses to tanks.

>>96309863
t. Perturabo

>>96309866
So what you're saying is we solved the problem >>96308369's friends were having?

>>96309863
Sticking 30 Optae and a Herald in the same squad is what, at minimum 1700 points?

You'll never make enough points to compensate for your opponents on
Objective control and get shot to death quite easily.

>>96309866
>It counters infantry spam but loses to tanks.
Swap 1 rapier in each battery to a Laser Destroyer.

Use the additional 100 points on a min sized tactical squad to put the characters in.

>>96309877
Can Rapiers splitfire? Because if not you still lose to tanks.

>>96307399 (OP)
should the Horus Heresy be called Warhammer 30k? people still say 40k but that makes no sense

>>96309832
This is just a worse version of the Auxilia Artillery Cohort list.

>>96309882
Only vehicles can split fire.

>>96309757
>It's obviously not intended to get any detachments for command slots outside the prime detachment
Actual fucking retard in aisle 4
How the fuck are you supposed to take anything besides a centurion and 2 troops in an allied detachment then?
What's even the point of the officer cadre then?
Point to literally any part of the rules that even loosely eludes to only prime detachments command giving you detachment access and I will post a video of myself burning all 10 of my optae

>>96308337
>no spartan
>no squad of ten terminators
>no contemptor

How can this be? The AoD box is the foundation of all HH list building.

>>96309925
Only marine listbuilding. The Mechanicum and Auxilia launch boxes are that for the other factions.

>>96309925
The Spartan was unironically a worse model for an "intro" box than the arachnae turret and sat dread combined

>>96309863
>>96309875
What you actually have to do is take a list of:

>1 Jump Pack Praetor = 140 pts
>3 Jump Pack Heralds w/ Power Fist = 155 pts
>6 Jump Pack Optae w/ Legatine Axe = 85 pts
>3 Locutarus Storm Squads of 10 = 390 pts

You still have enough characters to win the focus roll and enough Heralds with good enough bodyguards that you can ignore objectives and fly around bullying characters for VP

>Solar Auxilia Tercio detachments only have 2 squads now
What was James smoking this edition?

>>96309961
You VILL take Sentinels and you VILL like it

Left or right mock-up for the Saturnine banner-bearer?

>>96309972
Both

Better yet, one for each shoulder

>>96308470

I'm pretty sure that Ursarax are more efficient MEQ-sweeping units if you just want to take large piles of power armour off the board, but this is a fair point. The Domitars do have the benefit of having at least one AA weapon, which is otherwise quite sparse in Mech outside just shooting pulsar-fusils into the air manually. My kingdom for jump pack Magi who could run with Thallax while casting on the Domitars.

>>96308481

WS4 termies seem much less attractive in basically all circumstances, so I'm just operating under the assumption that most if not all of the 2+ armour I see is going to be WS5 W2. That might be completely wrong, granted, but people like their legion-specific termies and I can't think of a Legion that doesn't have easy access to WS5 TEQ besides maybe the Word Bearers.

>>96308509

Karacnos has put in serious work for me, split firing three status blasts at the entire advancing enemy line makes it a real terror. I'm not sure about Secutors, they're a tad expensive for the amount of shooting they get and even 400 points of them is only going to kill about three terminators with a normal shooting phase plus Volley, since they don't have Firestorm to easily double up. A solid deathstar unit with Guide in a Macrocarid or something, but they really need that cybertheurgy support against multiwound models.

Mech are more about throwing out half a dozen 2-300pt units that can each shoot or maul two or three termies each than assembling counter-deathstars, granted. I hadn't considered Arlatax, I'm not usually big on the Cybernetica, but they seem like decent chaos units.

>>96308209
>relative to fulmentarus?
No, theyre much better than fulmentarus. Theyre just very expensive, and - like the fulmentarus - they need to find a way to get use out of both their shooting and melee to really make their points back.

Theyre basically a Cataphractii Terminator with a lascannon strapped to the back, but the issue is theyre also priced like that. So theyre not efficient as either a shooting or melee unit. Fulmentarus are cataphractii terminators with twin-linked plasma guns strapped to their backs, and experience all the same issues, with the added problem of "tartaros siege terminators with autocannons do it better"

>>96309883
It should be called:
>Warhammer 30,000 The Age of Darkness: The Horus Heresy featuring Dante from Devil May Cry
It's acronym is W30KTAoD:THH

>>96308818
they are for sure the best alternative. Lunar Auxillia are decent too but a little awkward looking and need fixing to get rid of traitor icons if you want them as loyalists. I thought I was going to get some of the axe men for my solar list but ultimately I just went with a recaster for the classic resin axemen. Still thinking about them for the veletari command squad but I think I want them with chargers

>>96308405
>How would you fight against an infantry heavy list like that?
Destroyers, blast templates, mass status effects, plasma...

>>96308350
That list looks really tame? Whats your pts limit?

>>96309961
Tericos have always been 3 squads with the option to replace one squad with a command squad.

Now there is no longer an option. You MUST take a command squad to get 2 regular squads, however one of those squads is a prime so if you want a third squad or anything else you can get it through logistical advantage.

Plus the different cohorts get to double up on their associated Tericos. A solar Cohort for example can take 4 Veletaris squads for every Veletaris Command squad.

Its a cool system IMO.

>>96310059
Fun fact, historically Tercio didn't refer to three sub-units (although they did often deploy in triangles of three squares), it referred to the three troop types of swordsmen, pikemen and musketmen.

Which was somewhat replicated back in 1.0 where you had your basic rifle squads (muskets) protected by flamer squads (pikes) and backed up by specialised CQC troops in the Veletaris (swords).

GW then shat the bed and went all in on the 'they're Tercios because they have 3 squads'.

>>96310080
Dunno, it does fit the misunderstanding of ancient concepts that happens a lot in the grimdark. Like Arkan Land recreating a monkey and giving it a scorpion's tail, convinced that that was the only plausible reason it had a tail.

>>96310080
>flamer and veletaris squads get mowed down by bolter fire while lasgun squads impotently plink off space marine armour

>>96309972
Try the right banner on the back?
Didn't they use to have them like that?

>>96310059

Admittedly having Prime on your regular lasrifle chumps is quite handy anyway, since it makes their leadership suck less, and you probably care about that more than you care about getting more Troops slots given lasrifles are literally the only things you can put in them.

>>96309951
Why? Is tank.

>>96310099
...actually that's a fair point anon.

>>96310100
>Stuns your supersoldiers with grenade launchers and cuts them down with storm axes
Nothin' personal Astartes

>>96308337
Where are your legion specific units, anon?

Has anyone tried out regular dreads in 3e? I know theyre worse, but how much worse.

>>96310100
The Auxilia were never supposed to fight space marines anon. Everyone knows the standard anti transhuman tactic is to spam airstrikes and artillery so you never have to share a Horizon with a space marine.

>>96308337
Not to be a dick. But how do you actually kill things? Like what happens if your enemy just has some terminators/bodies you need to kill?

>>96310162
>Everyone knows the standard anti transhuman tactic is to spam airstrikes and artillery so you never have to share a Horizon with a space marine.
You forgot deploying the Ogryns

>>96310172
Thatd do it, especially this edition. Charonites will buttfuck most assault squads/vets/terminators.

>>96310165
You can't.

>>96310175
Last edition Militia of all armies could do it, their Ogryn Sergeants could pretty easily challenge and kill any Marine character that didn't have Eternal Warrior.

>>96310183
Truly the ideal NPC night lord army. Just a mass of bodies to break harmlessly off your named characters.

maybe I should just do an all-walker solar auxilia army

>>96310162
>squad of justaerin teleports behind your Basilisk crews and inside your commander's tent

>>96310108
Yeah, I'm building an Ultima list and I'm gonna run only combat vet Lasrifles because I don't see a way to score consistently with mortal tier mental stats.

At least with Combat vet + Vox and Vex the lads are less likely to rout from shooting than tacticals.

>>96310014
Thanks

Has anyone tried contemptors out this edition? I know theyre worse than before, but are they usable?

>>96310209
>Squad of equally priced Sekhmet allies casts Biomancy and sodomises the JUSTarian

>>96310253
They're cheaper too, so they are not awful. The main drawback is that they take an entire aux detachment by themselves unless you take the master of contemptors.

>>96310157
Tried a contemptor in my first game to with fist/heavy flamer/gravis-melta, he stood between my homefield tac squad and my opponents 10 man cataphractii command squad deathstar and my home objective breachers, won the subsequent combat because he got lucky and killed 3 dudes with his attacks, and then started benny hilling them around the table because he kept either panicking or stunning them with his heavy flamer + havoc launcher, charging in, and bonking people at WS5 because night lords. Was fun.

>>96310263
Yea, that does sound pretty nice. Kinda regret not building mine with havoc launchers now. Still, grav guns seem pretty good still.

Did GW explain why they decided to give units like Justerians Venguard, but leave it of other legion terminators or is it an error?

>>96310209
They'd better bring a lot of squads, Cohort command is decentralised. Every artillery Terico can function independently.

>>96310172
Also this, SoH got their shit pushed in by a tide of Cyber Retards during a boarding operation. Horus had to show up and bail them out.

How does this list sound:

>jump praetor, shotgun, axe
>vigilator
>centurion (paragon of battle), combi-grav, axe

>2x 10 tacticals, combi grav, vox (in rhino)
>10x terror squad, 2 rotor cannons, 1 flamer (in rhino)
>10x tacticals (leftover points)

>contemptor, chainfist, grav-gun, melta cannon (prime benefit)

Heavy Assault detachment
>contemptor, power fist, grav-gun, melta cannon)

recon company (vigilator detachment)
>2x 5 man recon squad, nemesis bolters
>10 seekers
>10 night raptors, 6x thunder hammers, 4x lightning claws

support detachment
>2x 3x laser rapier battery
support detachment
>2x 2x gravis bolter rapier battery

>>96307856
If they are made like the mk6 assault kit then the backpack is completely modular so they can reuse the jump pack sprue with another mark of armour.

>>96310322
Very nice. If you're looking for optimization, terror squads are pretty mid and you oculd probably spend the points better. Don't forget Havoc launchers in all your rhinos to cause stuns, also rhinos have 12 slots so either add some ICs or increase your rhino-borne squads to 12 men.

>>96310337
>terror squads are pretty mid and you oculd probably spend the points better.
Yea, probably, but they seem interesting enough (both in gameplay and modeling wise) to bother with. So I want to try them out.

If I was being super optimal (and didnt care for what I currently have) I would also drop the dreads and the recon company, take some destroyers and maybe a 2nd raptor squad instead.
I might end up dropping the dreads for destroyers anyways, destroyers are cool

And yea, all the rhinos have havoc launchers (and hunter killer missiles)

>>96310310
Well let's see, the only legion Terminators without it are
>Phoenix Terminators, who are bodyguards
>Tyrant Siege Terminators, who are support firepower
>Red Butchers, ravening madmen who literally don't care about victory
>Deathshroud who are bodyguards
>Lernaen, who specifically specialize in fighting for a point and taking hold of it
>Cenobites, who don't have it because ??? Best I can come up with they're also known for their last stands and defending relic vaults so they can both attack and defend objectives
>crimson paladins, known for being tough motherfuckers who hold the line

So other than cenobites all of them make sense more or less

>>96310373
>who don't have it because ???
Something something queer esoteric secret objectives

They should add a unit called "the raped" for night lords to represent what the Lion did to them

>>96310349
Destroyers are sick, though they kinda play against the legion trait. If you're looking for cool and fluffy units, why not take some Contekar?

>>96310175

If they don't phone up the Mechanicum and get the jump pack Ogryns instead. Ursarax are a damn menace these days with Lacry W3 at 25ppm. Only real issue with them is that they can't be Guided.

Are death guard the most boring legion?

>uh, yeah, we like, use chemical weapons and stuff and have zero personality.

>>96310411
>Thinks warcrimes are boring
What do you do for a living, anon?

>>96310404
>Destroyers are sick, though they kinda play against the legion trait
Yea, theyre not a "payoff" unit. Although with the phosphex they can act as a bit of setup. Plus they fire 40 dice per volley, which is just fun.

>contekar
I dont have any and im not sure where to slot them in, but theyre certainly a consideration.

>>96310419
>What do you do for a living, anon?

I fuck trannies in the ass.

>>96310373
yeah. cenobite is the thing that made me wonder. I would understand if generic terminators got venguard and legion ones didn't, but it feels wierd.

>>96310419
I work on a farm. Aside for 5 years in collage and 2 years in military always lived on one.

>>96310288
>Kinda regret not building mine with havoc launchers now.
so just glue it on top?

>>96310112
Because it incentivizes 1000+ point deathstars which is the most cancerous way to play the game

Do any of the black books detail lore on the Firewing? I was thinking of writing some oc donut steel stuff centered around how their covert ops targeting enemy hqs gradually devolve from cunning and calculated assassinations into reckless abduction and torturing of enemy commanders, first justified for the sake of intelligence gathering but later pretty transparently being about exacting vengeance and kind of laying down the bedrock for the Interrogator Chaplains but I wanted to make sure that all slotted kind of well into the lore they already had.

>>96310447
But...how else are you supposed to play the game???? How else am I supposed to deploy 10 terminators? I can't footslog them, and asking me to buy 2 land raiders seems like adding even more tanks to a force that already has a big massive tank

>>96309951
No, it was a much better model because its useful for a popular and common strategy.

>>96310447
Dumb timmy gameplay is common and natural, people want to build deathstars and mash them together, the spartan in the starter box doesent force them to make that cenobium death-brick with the lion attached, they wanted to do it anyways, and now they just have a tool to help them use it.

>>96310199
Hermes Sentinels are less than a point per dollar. Making an all sentinel army is by far the most expensive way to play Auxillia, spamming Lasrifle tericos is far cheaper. If you can print your own sentinels you will save so much money.

Assuming you do tho Hermes squads are actually useful. Both guns are effective at what they do with the multilaser being a 36" suppression machine that does decent damage into tacticals and other W1 infantry while the grenade launcher gets to chose between a stunning frag grenade or a short ranged 2 shot autocannon. Being 18" range may seem to be a disadvantage and it is but the Hermes has Inexorable advance and can get firestorm too with the right command squad so its pretty easy to double tap with their guns at full BS.

They're also tough by Auxillia standards with T5 W2 and SAV4+ which is an absolute steal at 16ppm. The grenade launchers even cheaper relative to what you get for 21 ppm.

Plus in recon cohorts they can withdraw 5" in the enemies assault phase AND capture objectives despite being cavalry which WS can't even do.

The only thing holding Hermes sentinels back is how much money it costs to buy them lol.

>>96310419
They have a ton of personality. They're the WW1 legion (along with IW). They hate psykers. They love chemical weapons that make even the Primarchs uncomfortable. They truly believe that the civilizations they melt in agent orange deserve it. They have a death/reaper theme as well, they have some officer infighting like IW because they want to show off in front of daddy. Said daddy liked to play favorites with his praetors, leading to more infighting. But they also had Death Shrouds, which were basically un-personed. Imagine how it must feel to go from being a showoff general fighting for Morty's attention, to being a faceless reaper who inst' even allowed to use his own name.
As for the other legions, they had a sense of superiority over them, but it wasn't completely unjustified. They could stand casually in fields of noxious gases that would make marines from other legions kneel down and puke. Hard not to feel a sense of superiority. Imagine being comfortably clearing a trench with your herbicide sprayer and the UM ally next to you is a huge pussy who needs an industrial grade respirator to stand near you.


Also you WILL die of cancer eventually if you're a destroyer, their extra special juice was THAT BAD

>>96310437
Then shouldn't you feel right at home spraying entire fields with pesticide and breathing it in to clear your airways?

If the Emperor lived through the 21st century, why didn't he just read the Horus Heresy books to find out what happened? Was he stupid?

>>96310447
>t. never played 20,000 point games where a 1k deathball was a drop in the bucket and ran fine
I pity secondaries who never truly got to enjoy this game at its finest

>>96310175
Yeah, the Primary disadvantage of Ogryn is their staggering stupidity. If Ogryn we're smarter than your average 5 year old child the Emperor would have used them to conquer the galaxy instead of making space marines. They're extremely strong and tough but too stupid to wield all but the simplest weapons and need to be wrangled by normal humans to fight effectively.

>>96310455
Best bet is Book Nine. But your oc donut steel does sound very plausible for DA.

>>96310471
>Man this writing is terrible, there is no way it would all happen like this!

South Park used to be a parody.

>>96310468
only if I wear a mask.

>>96310497
but then how are you going to build up resistance to Poisoned (3+) ?

>>96310500
the poison goes through the eyes and ears. no mask and you start having visions and food starts tasting odd.

>>96310465
>that artwork

Mortarion didn't wear a rebreather until he became a daemon prince, instead he had a collar fitted with a special, rebreather-like front that spewed gasses from his homeworld. Whoever drew this is a tertiary.

>b-but in some HH artwork he wears a rebreather!!!

SHUT THE FUCK UP, HIS MODEL DOESN'T COME WITH A REBREATHER OPTION, TERTIARY.

>>96310477
>They're extremely strong and tough but too stupid to wield all but the simplest weapons and need to be wrangled by normal humans to fight effectively.
So the World Eaters?

>>96310398
Are they the ancestors of the Hanged?

>>96310507
Your problem with that and not through fact they made mortarion a twink

>>96310522
That's not a twink anon

>>96310522
Well, Mortarion was regularly raped by Typhon

>>96310521
Certified hood classic, kek

>>96310213

I was pondering Ultima allies and I think the +1 Line squad with the vox is probably mandatory, since the LD penalty from mixing unit factions makes it harder to throw generic HQs from my primary into the infantry blobs. Possibly Militia and Cults will be superior for high morale GEQ blobs that don't care about damage output, but I am enjoying the free reactions, since I get to pick through the legion-specific ones.

>>96310510
Lol. The difference is Ogryn are less violent than the world eaters and more lazy. Ogryn enjoy violence but they don't live for it the way the WE do.

>heresy world eaters
>impossible to collect because you have to convert all the tactical marines into chainaxe wielding despoilers which costs an arm and a leg

>>96310563
A single ultima Line command Section gets 2 Infantry tericos, each terico has room for a prime troop, a regular troop, a squad of Sentinels and 2 Dracosan armoured transports.

Speaking of which the Dracosan is pretty good too. 175 points gets you a demolisher cannon tied to a 13/13/10 HP7 brick which is also inexplicably a 22 man troop transport.

>>96310636
Ah, the richfag legions. World Eaters, White Scars, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Night Lords...all for richfags.

Any ideas on what to add for a fleet based IF force vaguely based around boarding action / rapid battlefield deploy ment from orbit. The core of my force is 20 breaches with another 20 - 40 tactical marines backed up with auto cannon lascannon HSS squads, I have a few dread claw drop pods and a Kharibdyss for flavour (despite them being not that great in 3.0).

>>96310658
>funny berserker legion is available only to the richfags who can afford 3d printers and a space to print in without getting cancer

Sad!

>>96310636
Why not just field chainaxe wielding assault squads instead?

>>96310693
Because that is less sovlful than 100 chainaxe wielding despoilers charging across the battlefield on foot. Also 3rd ed lore states that jump packs weren't in common use during the GC and HH by astartes, so despoiler squads line up with that description. I want WORLD EATERS, not night lords assault squads

>>96310681
Wait for plastic marine aircraft to start coming out in plastic and then buy those, or buy the current resin aircraft recasts.

Either way an army built around a ship or fleet of ships will have a lot of aircraft.

>>96310507
>artwork predating his model doesn't count because it just doesn't okay?
If he's a tertiary I pity to think what you are

>>96310708
The dream is to get some storm eagles and eventually a thunder hawk, but that's a future endeavor

>>96310703
>I want to do X but its too expensive.
>Y is similar to X and also cheaper, why not do that?
>Y is too close to Z, I want to do X not Z.

Have you tried not being poor then?

>>96310681
Phalanx Warders are the obvious choice. After that you want a bunch of Deep Striking units, so jump packs and Terminators. Avoid heavy armor and transports to stay on theme. Probably no recon units either, unless you want to fluff it as them getting there before the main force and picking the best spots for the drop assault.
And of course, master of Descent and Master of Signals, with maybe a Warmonger as well

>>96310430
Hey thats my MODEL!
But yes ICK got beat really bad mostly by the change to heavy.
Currently it is impossible for any cata terminator to make it into combat with a perfectly set up and max rolled charge against AL if they dont want you to, in teh extreme case of the situations.

>>96310767
don't leave your scrolls blank!

>>96310681
Phalanx warders? Terminators? Flamer/assailt cannon squads? Destroyers? A leviathan dread?

>>96307534
Just buy 40k Khorne Bersekers and call them late Heresy World Eaters.

>>96310749
>>96310807
I do have a unit of china cast phalanx warders I've been sitting on since forever I've finally decided to build, that and a unit of lightning claw tartauros I invision as a voidcraft blender. Lots of ideas on HQ conversions now thanks for that. Would templar brethren fit in as an elite assault force or do they mostly hang around with Sigismund on the Phalanx? Also I feel like I can justify a hand full of predators / medusa because they are small enough to transport with a sokar or a thunder hawk.

>>96309972
What's the banner on the right from? I would love one for my WS

>>96310471
He’s not into miniature war games

>>96310878
Sigismund specifically isn't in the Phalanx, Dorn wanted him as far away as possible so he was always sending him crusading out of sight. Now, Templars and later on Black Templars would become a strictly fleet-based chapter always on the move, which is pretty much what you said your army is like, so it'd fit perfectly.

>>96310878
man the sgt looks really small

>>96310940
I converted one of the MK VI marines into a word bearer before I decided to focus on my fists. So the squad Sargent is one of the Plastic MK IV, I could always give him a tactical rock to make up for it

>>96310958
leave it be, the manlet rage drives him to fight harder.

>>96310958
>>96310963
The word bearer praetor is so tiny it's hilarious
Peak manlet

Im going to poxxy cata terminators with all auto canons and power weapons as a tartaros siege squad because they look better and no one can stop me!
And be cause i have the bits to do that laying around so.

>>96307534
for my thirty despoilers it cost about $2 per despoiler to give it a jakhal kit chainaxe, right and left hand arms and a pistol from melee kit singles sellers, a lot of those singles sellers offer decent discounts on bulk as well.

>>96310878
Yeah, Rhino Chassis vehicled or Sabres are reasonable because they're small enough to be airlifted directly to a fight, same as Contemptor or Castaferrum dreads.

Just avoid heavy tanks like a Kratos or a Spartan and you should be alright.You might also want to consider Tarantulas as they're often airdropped onto battlefields.

>>96310966
Sargent fell to chaos a long time ago

>>96310973
I always find posing melee units hard. All the "chainaxe raised in the air" poses tend to be a bit silly. Was a huge problem when I collected Orks.

>>96310989
>Aquila on the forehead
Closeted loyalist

Post modéls

>>96310973
You bought a jakhal kit for the chainaxes...how did you get them out of the human hands and into the marine hands?

How the hell did you get the pistols for so cheap? I'm looking at Etsy right now and it says $31 for ten chainaxes and ten pistols. I also need to sell all my thousand sons kits i bought years ago for conversion purposes because I don't want to collect them anymore

Anons, please help clear this out for me.

Can a set up move of 1 ever get you into base contact?
Because the way I'm reading this you need to finish your movement outside of 1" of your enemy, meaning that it's not technically possible to get into base contact with your 1" setup.

>>96311050
>Can a setup move of exactly 1" ever get me into base contact with an enemy model I have to stay more than 1" away from at all times unless charging?
Idk you tell me

>>96311041
Just collect thousand sons, retard.

>but I don't like thousand sons

read their novels and you will. Faggot.

>>96311040
Here's my fucked up apothecary.
I made a whole bunch of tartaros HQs a while ago and painted them like shit, once I'm done painting up the ashen circle recasts I just got I'm gonna go over all of them again

>>96311041
If course you're the thousand sons fag

>missed a an opportunity to get sky hunters for $44, the baseline second hand market is now 130% that price
>just now realizing the sicarian tank i saw for $63 was as low as i'd ever see it
>passed on a $170 Astartes Battle Group , don't even see them anymore
with all the money i didn't spend, i should get a 3d printer, but i can't be fucked because i wouldn't even have a place to put it.
any regrets on deals recently?

Threadly reminder to paint your models.

>>96311041
>how did you get them out of the human hands and into the marine hands
nta
not a WE player
But I just cut tzaangor hands off and glued them to the arm and painted them red for my TSons

Did anyone actually manage to get the cape on the Saturnine Praetor?

>>96311108
Haven't built it myself, but I've seen people claiming the instructions are wrong/out of order

>>96311098
Swing and a miss

>>96311098
Threadly reminder that you are playing a legion that lorewise is meant to be EXTREMELY RARE in the HH. You should stop playing it and play another, more active legion instead. Or else I'll rape you

>>96310898
High elf chariot, I think. It's from the depths of my bitsbox, basically.

>>96309592
Wrong. Red Butchers have the same or less attacks, zero extra. Their profile being a sad 2A base means that the axe only makes them 3A just like the Chosen WS5 terminators already are. And the champion's weapon leaves him at an inferior 3A unlike the 4A of the Chosen WS5 terminator sarge. -3 init penalty hurts him too.

The butcher champ also has an inferior antitank weapon. If both charge, it's 4 attacks S8 versus the chosen if he wants to take a chainfist like the butcher getting 4 attacks at S10 with armourbane. The dmg3 is hard cancelled by S8 sucking dick.
Av14 - 1.6 for butcher vs 3.3 for chosen
Av13 - 3.3 for butcher vs 4.5 for chosen
Av12 - 5.1 for butcher vs 5.6 for chosen
Av11 - 6.7 for butcher vs 6.7 for chosen
Av10 - 8.4 for butcher vs 6.7 for chosen (but since the av10 is a rhino with 5 wounds, there's no actual difference as they both insta-kill it)

Red butcher are better against Dmg2 guns like autocannons for sure. That is their one and only thing they're not worse at than other world eater melee units.

>>96311147
Threadly reminder that if your army contains anything other than tactical marines or despoilers with Rhinos you need to smash it with a hammer because it is EXTREMELY RARE in the HH

>>96311182
BASED, I'll get to work smashing now, sir!

>>96311180
Yes but they look much cooler and yoir opponent won't know the math, he'll just see a rapemurder ball and point all his D2-3 guns at it; meaning they end up working well

>>96311182

The Marines also need smashing, by that metric, since the writers made the mistake of putting two numbers in the lore section of the rulebook and there are apparently something on the order of a hundred and fifty million battle automata running around during the Heresy in cohorts of 25'000, and that's just the Legio Cybernetica proper. The Lore-Accurate Mech/Legions allied army is of course one Marine per thirty Castellax.

>>96311182
Threadly reminder that too many players play everything except militia. All new players must play militia and cannot choose anything with advanced technology and are not allowed to play until two other players break into their house and start playing a game. You may then third party or take one side.

>>96309827
>give tacs Land Raiders
Thats stupid. Give them Spartans so you can max those squad sizes.

>Warlord Titan fires main gun at squad of WB
>Get behind me! Screams brother-martyr Joshua, as he blocks the entirety of the blast

>>96310995
yeah I think the ones that came out best are those that look closest to simply running, trying to make it look mid swing doesn't usually work. My favourite is this guy since it reminds me of some artwork

>praetor
>forge lord
>2 praevians
>2x9 thallax squads, 6 lightning guns + 3 photon thrusters + melta bombs for all
>2x6 barebones castellax
>2x rhinos
>paragon of battle the forge lord for funsies

>2x10 centurion command squads, 9 power weapons and a thunder hammer in each
>1x10 praetorian command squads with with power weapons and combat shields and a power fist and combat shield
>logistical benefit a land raider in for the praetorian command squad + praetor + forge lord

This list is about 3k, how bad is it

>>96311296
you mean
>Bother Joshua gets to do nothing because Warlod Titans can't hit the broad side of a barn if it's not a LoW

>>96311098
Why are TS so popular for a legion that was demolished before the heresy even began?

>>96311354
Anon that's half the legions of the heresy

>>96311306
The chad stride

>>96311354
Because battle wizard super soldiers are cool

>>96311354
Because metallic undercoat and red contrast over the to makes them easy to paint

>>96311041
for the jakhals kit I cut the butt off the axe haft and shaved the human hands off the handle so it is the width of the haft all the way around. You could file it rounded but most of it is hidden anyway, which brings me to the next step which was cutting the marine hands off the bolter grips and power swords then drilling them with a bit the same width as the axe haft. Then I pushed the axe haft through to hide the cut haft and glued the butts back on. It is not as bad as it sounds by any stretch, maybe a 3 minute operation.

The pistols I did buy a while back but it was discoutned to 79p for 5 so 30 so £20 for 27 and the axes were 91p I think so about £24 and finally the left and right arms were £26 so it works out at £2.33 so more like $3 actually. It's not exactly cheap all told but not much pricier than any other upgrade kit.

>>96309649
Drop the Mastodon, add in a Wonger and MoD, deploy MoD t1, DS the blob t2

>>96311363
List them.
>>96311373
They don't have any funny dawn of war quotes. How are they cool?
>>96311396
So they're baby's first legion???? Your argument is that they're good for secondaries who played SM2? subhumans.

>>96311335
I had not considered just running huge fuckoff squads of stock castellax now they're down to 50ppm, I'll have to try that out and see if it's funny. Seems like it would be pretty miserable without Guide to get them up to WS/BS 4, though.

I would perhaps drop one Castie from each squad and add more special weapons to the Thallax - the lightning guns are there to die first and inflict Suppression checks, which they will do if they score so much as a single hit, so I'd at least go to six photon thrusters per squad. Maybe seven, but that personally annoys me because it doesn't divide neatly into trios.

>>96311095

I impulse bid on a Spartan and Proteus new on sprue. Won them both for £80 combined.
I do very much regret not buying Rhinos when they were 35% off at Dark Sphere because even with a 20% discount they're ludicrously pricy for a 60pt box.

>>96311224

The Imperial Navy has about 1m ships across the galaxy so each Tactical Squad is worth about as much as a Cruiser.

>>96310636
WE can't field tacticals?

>>96311457
They can, but their rules revolve around melee, it sounds very retarded to field WE tacticals in rhinos since they'd be off shooting anyone they could charge at. Also chain bayonets are fucking useless now

>>96311467
better off,* FUCK I WANT TO KILL SOMETHING OVER THAT TYPO

IWbros am I dreaming or are Iron circle actually not terrible? Ws4 still sucks donkey dick but halving incoming damage, getting a 2+, getting 4 attacks on the charge each with a hilarious s11 armourbane ap2 D2 weapon with Shock(pinned), and finally getting the shield trait so you can get up to t8 on a reaction seems pretty amazing (and theyre exactly the same price as in 2.0).

Now that you shoot a different unit to the one you charge, the shrapnel cannons are great too, giving you some pinning on infantry while you stride forward and rape av14. (2 iron circle for 285 points will on average get 9 damage through av14, and that tank is now pinned and can't escape.

>Legion-specific Auxs and Apexes are locked to Primary detachments of that Legion
Are Delegati actually kinda shit unless you're spamming retinues or elites?

>>96311481

They're robits too, so you can grab a quick allied Magos to buff them up to BS/WS 5 if you want, or throw +1 move/init on them if you want them to close with tanks faster. The main issue there is that only Iron Warriors commanders can join the unit, so he'll have to go somewhere else and do his best to stay within 12". There's a 1-Int penalty for casting on non-Mechanicum units but they can still do it fairly easily if you throw them a cyber-familiar.

>>96311419
>they don't have any funny dawn of war quotes.

They might have cool SM2 quotes, but SM2 players are so fucktarded that they haven't actually uploaded the thousand sons generic voice lines anywhere on the internet. A fucking shame. Of course, they're pretty fucking lame in SM2 in general, so they probably don't have lines at all outside of the retarded villain who is less memorable than Nemeroth

>>96311419

> List them

NTA but you can absolutely consider 8 out of 18 to be FUBAR before Horus even gets to Molech (the actual start of the Heresy).

Thousand Sons at Prospero
Emperor's Children demolished at I3
Raven Guard, Salamanders and Iron Hands at I5
Space Wolves at Alaxxes/Yarant
Night Lord at Thramas
Word Bearers at Calth/Ultramar

>>96311489
>Aren't delegatus shit unless you use them for the thing they are intended to do?
Yea, I guess they are?

>>96311516
That's absolutely awesome, I had a little mech allied det in 2.0 but I hadn't checked out the new rules.
Thanks anon!

>>96311543
Word Bearers absolutely were not thrashed at Calth, the guys sent to Ultramar were basically sent to their deaths on purpose by legion command (their faith was lacking) while the bulk of the legion was at Isstvan V and then arrived in ultramar afterwards

>>96311354
Bitchin' color scheme

>>96311090
Well, I don't want to keep collecting thousand sons because other legions speak to me more. The World Eaters especially, since I'm angry all the time and want to kill people who annoy me for the smallest of reasons

>>96311579
>arrived in ultramar afterwards
And then got thrashed

>>96311589
>I'm a psychopath
oh that explains a lot

>>96311605
I'm not a psychopath I just hate the vast majority of the 40k community and want to kill them. That's a reasonable reaction.

>>96311623
You're the reason they stopped making pewter models

>>96311589
>since I'm angry all the time and want to kill people who annoy me for the smallest of reasons
based and murderpilled

>>96311579

I didn't say thrashed, I said demolished. Half the fleet was lost at Calth.
I also listed both Calth and Ultramar because one led into the other amd WBs got fucked hard in the end.

>>96311296
>bellicosa volcano cannon's blast is barely the diameter of the barrel

Finally settled on a legion power armor recipe for DA, wish I had gotten going during 2nd.

Terminator chaplain I painted for older eds as a comparison, going to use his bluey black for legion vehicles and Ravenwing though.

>>96311775
captcha ate my photo wtf

>>96311595
the legion as a whole is basically irrelevant for both settings

>>96311698
The WB completely failing to achieve any of their actual goals during the BaC while claiming total victory is eternally funny
Lorgar truly is the lamest primarch

>>96311698
NTA but the problem with your argument is it assumes fixed numbers and that the Word Bearers fleet resembled limp-dicked small imperial fleets, neither of which are correct.

Word Bearers both had the most powerful fleet of any legion and the most numerous for large vessels.
Literally zero other space marine legions had anything close to the Word Bearers fleet. In addition to the usual Gloriana battleship (Fidelitas Rex), WB also had the trio of 3 phalanx-sized Abyss Battleships (Furious Abyss, Trisagion, Blessed Lady) which were even larger. Neither dark angels, nor ultramarines had even 1 abyss battleship sized vessel. So technically, Word Bearers fleet might've suffered the most casualties, but that doesn't correlate to "it was devastated"

Istvaan 5 was so one-sided that the traitors immediately won the void war, I forget what novel covers it but a lot of the Raven Guard / Iron Hands / Salamander cruisers or battleships were captured by the Word Bearers and added to the traitor ranks.

WB does suffer some casualties during the Calth war, it's just they were given so many free extra ships that authors were allowed to just use them as villains to get destroyed by this or that badly written trash novel trying to ripoff the DeathStar to please some GW corporate rat.

>>96311440
yeah, another land raider made me hesitate on the astartes battle group.
but they're still cool, could be part of a new army.

>>96311807
* oh, and they had a second Gloriana for some reason, Chronicle of Ashes. Spoiled with 5 flagships in a single legion, but since they were a bunch of stupid nuns, they never accomplished anything with them.

>>96310429
Just a gigolo, and everywhere I go, people know the role I'm playing

>>96311040
Started work on my terror squad. The glaives are in the mail, but I hope to get the rotor cannon and flamer guys done before they arrive.

>>96311147
>>96311354
>>96311419
I’ve been playing space wizards since before TS even had legion traits in 1.0. I’m glad they’re getting some love this edition but I’ve been playing them for a minute

>>96311916
Terror? I hardly know her!

>>96311933
reaper squads?

>>96311932
It seems like everyone and their mother plays TS. Can't believe they've become a normie legion.

>>96312101
>Normie Legion
That’s Iron Warriors. I’ve never seen a group that didn’t have at least one

>>96312101
Nta but what other legion should I play? I don't care for any of them other than maybe White Scars and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on bikes

>>96312119
I play them because the armor in 30k actually looks cool and fitting for them unlike 40k chaos slop where they're lumped in with black legion et. al.

It also has little support, hell we didn't even have a warsmith for a while I had to kitbash mine.

>>96312151
Cough up the money.

>>96312151
there's something for everyone in the rules man pick one that fits your style.

>>96311807
>"Most powerful fleet of any legion"

>>96311797
Lorgar is my favourite Primarch.

>>96312249
>Pic
The only difference between the two is the mechanicum could actually be useful

>>96312199
5 > 2
And the 3 Abyss class were each superior to the Alpha or the Beta

>>96312249
>Lorgar: hmm, it must be Daddy likes the color red, alright let's repaint my legion

>>96311783
Holy shit how did you get the bits to make that chaplain

>>96312282
I know that, Lorgars not just useless he's an active threat to big E's original endgame.

Lorgar was the perfect combination of stupid and persuasive needed to spread an imperial cult that would stick around in spite of ANY attempt made to eradicate it.

The mechanicum might have been nuts and evil but at least they produced value. All Lorgar knew how to do was proselytize.

If the Emperor wasn't such a dumb cunt he would have killed Lorgar on Colchis and spared everyone a lot of trouble. Its a major reason why I like Lorgar so much desu.

>>96312119
the true reason is - 30k is boring as fuck with essentially just generic marines and generic terminators. The only way to spice up the hobby is with tanks.
Iron Warriors is the one natural tank legion other than Iron Hands which look like fucking shit because black is a horrible color for normies to paint (can't use nuln oil to shade black)

Guys... is it me or do Blood Angles actually get a lot of understatedly cool stuff in this edition? I mean their general legion stuff is near garbage, not quite fully, but Perdition weapons are embarassingly complete nothingburgers, Inferno Pistols somehow got it worse than Plasma did this edition and their Legion Gambit is... only useful if you're losing, as opposed to preventing that in the first place. And a Legion Trait that's... kind of situational although better than nothing, unlike other peoples.
Assault Cannons are nice though. Then you get to their unique units and its: Deep Striking assault troops who can't be intercepted at range (something that in another editon but this would be great) with increadibly mean power spears and everyone has a grenade launcher, and then in the Legends PDF
Then you have deepstriking Catas with Eternal Warrior (1) and FNP 5+ if they're outnumbered although yeah, Bulky (2) kind of makes that tricky. Unfortunately they only get Power Swords... but then Legends said "Nah, have some Powerfists for 5pts each, on us."
Then, even though everyone else of worth (sorry Dark Angels) lost theirs, Blood Angels get to keep their Destroyers, except they all start with Volkite Serpenta's, or the option of effectively giving everybody. EVERYBODY Rad Launchers.
Then Legends rolled in and decided that you know what would be funny? If everyone in the squad could take an Assault Cannon. Is it ruinously expensive to the point of probably not being worth it? Absolutely. Is it very very cool? Also yes.
Then there's a jump-jetting Contemptor who's cosplaying a Furioso, except I don't remember them getting twin Assault Cannons. Then legends decides to toss in a trio of murderous challenge bots with FNP5+ and +2 to the Focus rolls in challenges and AP2 power swords that get up to Str7 on the charge.

As an Alpha Legion player, I am looking forward to stealing all of these things.

>>96312341
body and storm bolter is from the older Deathwing Command Squad/Deathwing Knights kit (amazing kit!), Crozius conversion and head from the scaled up firstborn Interrogator Chaplain (really great model too)

Shoulder pads are the old forgeworld for Deathwing, worth getting recasts for.

>>96312348
>Iron Warriors is the one natural tank legion other than Iron Hands
UM are literally right there

>>96312410
UM faggots are wannabe-roman-legion and the roman legion did not have the vindicator battle tank

>>96312342

"If the Emperor wasn't a dumb cunt" is the entire fucking heresy full stop.

>>96312396
>and AP2 power swords
Theyre AP3, its what makes ofanim not very good at fighting command squads.

>>96312119
Some legions are done much better justice here. For IW specifically it's either dogshit armored CSM list rules or going with SM ones instead in 40k, or feasting like a king in 30k. It's not a hard choice.

>>96312448
that's Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers. They've always had pretty joke rules in 40k for 20+ years so it's natural they gravitate to 30k while the world eater, deathguard, emperor's children and thousand sons still stay happily in 40k.

>>96312432
"If magnus hadn't fucked up" actually

>>96312432
The Big Es honestly no better than your average Eldar Farseer, dude crutches on precognition so hard he's completely forgotten how people actually work. Its only when his precognition gets cucked by chaos during the siege and he needs to actually engage his brain that he starts being less of a dumb cunt.

>>96312436

...ah yeah. Oh well. Breaching 5+ isn't bad, combine it with either Flurry of Blows or Killing Blow and see what happens I guess.

I still say that as a modelling project alone 5 Angel Tears all with Jump Packs and Assault Cannons sounds really fun to do. 5 guys pumping out 25 shots with Breaching 6+ sounds kinda fun. Although you are then paying extra points for something that you can't use firestorm with.

>>96312467
No, it's definitely if the Emperor's divorced single mother Astartes hadn't fucked up.
Women ruin every single thing they do.

>>96312467

If Magnus was that much of a threat to the big project E had planned. He either should have had Russ give him the Old Yeller treatment sooner, or taken him aside and told him what he was planning.

>>96312342
>>96312432
2025 and people still miss all the neon signs about the Emperor deliberately engineering the whole thing.

Like, that bit in the Lorgar primarch novel where Kor Phaeron realizes that Lorgar allowed himself to be mistreated as a kid despite being able to easily kill him. That he wasn't really grooming Lorgar, and he was always doing what he wanted.

I'm convinced that was going to be a big reveal in TEATD, but Abnett chickened out or was forced to avoid a shitstorm and keep it ambiguos.

>>96312467
also, if the emperor's psychic defenses on his most important project in 30,000+ years were so weak that Magnus could huff and puff and blow them all apart, then Tzeentch the literal god of magic could have ripped them to shreds even without Magnus being involved.

>>96312469

Oh so he's basically pre-Vader Anakin.

>>96312472
Sure, in a challenge especially theyre quite scary. But outside the challenge theyre going to struggle into similar elites. It fits their role, theyre a unit of 5 pseudo-character killers, but theyre not going to be optimal into like terminators and stuff.

>>96312402
How did you get the omegabased old triple kit for termies?
It's been OOP for a while and I'd love to get one, only missing that kit and the land speeder vengeance

>>96312500

3 actually. It's kind of a shame that they come in 3's and the Terminators who want to be outnumbered come in 5's. If they swapped it around it'd actually be pretty good.

>>96312416
This is your brain on 40k rot
UM are the utilitarian autists and use tanks more than most other legions because it makes sense to and they aren't retarded enough to:
>Run headlong into enemy fire without caring about casualties(SW, WE, DG, WS)
>Attempt their 37th soon to be failed infiltration (RG, AL, NL)
>Sit in their trench until the enemy gets bored of shelling them and gives up (IW, IF)
>Rely on warp fuckery to try and pray the gay away (WB, TS)
>Lobotomize themselves so they can march forward with no inhibitions (IH, WE again)

>>96312432
If Curze was like 2% more well adjusted the heresy would have ended at Istvaan V

Really there's a lot of people that could have ended the herest early/before it started if they were just a little less retarded

>>96312303

The abyss class ships were definitely insane and iirc word bearers had an even bigger fleet than the IF so I concede my original point.

What happened to the furious abyss again? Exploded through sabotage perpetrated by a tiny kill team of loyalists, right?

Word Bearers are one of the legions most heavily infiltrated by the AL (if some of the gal vorbak were Alpha Legionnaires then I very much doubt the three biggest ships in the fleet didn't have any alpha Legion on board, so I believe the AL would still stand a chance in open combat through sabotaging the abyss ships.

>>96312515
utilitarians would not use axes and shields in year 30,000, this is your brain on being retarded fanwanker about the gayest legion ever written.

>>96312523

Curze was well adjusted. He learnt his lines and stuck to his script and embraced the role.

>>96312482
The Emperor always knew some of his sons would turn to chaos, thats not the problem, the problem was that Lorgar, Curze and Angron were always going to be among them and he did nothing about it until it was too late.

We know for a fact the Heresy Variant we got wasn't the one the Emperor wanted because he bitches about it constantly. Thats why he had to end the Siege on a stalemate with chaos, there was no route where he won AND humanity survived.

>>96312465
WE in 40k are still anemic, they're like half an army still waiting for their second wave and likewise with EC going divergent. Surprised there isn't an AL-adjacent unit for CSM yet given Havocs/Raptors have names lent by other legions, maybe they'll get a Kill Team at best.

>>96312532
>utilitarians would not use axes and shields in year 30,000

>My enemy may rush me with melee weapons because everybody in this galaxy is one step away at best from being a frothing psychopath
>Better to have units ready for deployment that can counter said melee rushes if just shooting them in the face fails

>>96312551
Counterpoint: He sitting in the throne, slowly becoming a god linked to Humanity (like Slaanesh is to the Eldar), and active traitors as real treat to keep sane humans on his side was always his plan. He's trying to save mankind from Chaos, but he will do anything no matter how extreme to achieve it.

We can't trust anything he says. Lots of clues about it in the books.

>>96312646
I like the bit of fluff where a solitaire(?) enters the throne room and almost immediately vomits while having a massive brain aneurysm when they try to gauge just how powerful of a psychic presence the emperor has

>>96312646
>the Emperor almost becomes a chaos god during 30k which would have explicitly Slaaneshed humanity and left the galaxy a ruin for millions of years.
>people convince him not to do that so he finesses Horus instead and tricks him into throwing away his chaos power.
>apparently thats all part of his plan to become a god and drive humanity extinct in 40k instead.

You Emperor Copers are a different breed. Stop expecting space dad to save you, he wanted you to save yourself.

>>96312502
I had two survive my house flooding years ago and then bought the DA half of the Azrael box back when that came with more

Conserving the bits carefully

>>96312668
It was a Shadowseer, they're Harlequin psykers. She was overwhelmed by the scale of his might and the immensity of his suffering.

>>96312465
>Word Bearers
9th edition word bearers before the faggot FAQ that made CSM daemons ineligible for the chaos daemon strategems was the most fun and fluffiest set of rules they've ever had, 40k or 30k, and I literally returned to 30k solely in vain hopes of reclaiming that lost high and doing the legion proper rather than my own color scheme.

>>96312724
the Dark King had to be a red herring, anon. A scam. The Emperor never had any intention to become him, but it was useful that others believed it so. If you re-read the book, Big E was just using his power to get past the defences on his way to meet Horus.
Persson just gave him plausible deniability to turn it off and prepare the charade. He always planned to sit on the Throne. It's the only way it all can make sense.

Regarding becoming to humanity what Slaanesh is to the Eldar, note the big difference: Not a big bad god born in a cataclysm, but a slow boiled one for a hundred centuries, and still in control over himself. Not just a self aware vortex of emotion with endless hunger, but a real human-like god.

>>96312571
it shouldn't surprise me how retarded you are, but it always does.
>thinks police having shields vs homeless bums = shields are powerful military weapons
you must also think police on horses means that horsemen are an effective military unit against machine guns, huh retard?

>>96312186
I picked TSons.

>>96312857
There are 3 quotes in the Valdor book that says it all:

>Infinite power cannot be overcome. We are finite, limited by law. So, deception.
>You will cheat them. You will cheat all of them. And us.
>‘We are the architects of the species’ future. No crime could be judged as too heinous if it secured that, no virtue could be forgiven if it hindered it.

>>96311783
>storm bolter in 30k
Erm mods bite this man’s balls off

>>96312908
yeah they pretty cool

>>96312249
It’s my firm belief that the emperor was only there to destroy the physical city and not the people. Guiliman just decided that day was good for his weekly spaz out and sent death squads

>>96311916
Give the glaives to raptors since they can actually do some damage. Torror squads dies just if the enemy shouts at them. Too expensive for what you got if you build them to be a cc unit

>>96312893
nta, but not only are you a cunt, you're also a retarded cunt missing the point of shields and axes in the context of sci fi space warfare (and the rule of cool, which is just as important)

Breachers were not created to stand in shield walls in the middle of a field. As the name says, their main role was void/zone mortalis assault in close quarters where the traditional urban fighting tactics are not possible.

If you question that, you can question the very existence of marines, so you can fuck off

>>96312857
You can believe this if you want, its your headcanon but I prefer a man over a god.

>>96309415
All transports can get pintle-mounted havoc launchers (Stun). Then you need someone with a combi-flamer (Panic), a combi-grav (Pinning), and something with Suppressive, like a gatling

>>96312930
He stole it from a drop pod :^)

>>96312735
Sorry to hear about your house, and thank you for the answer

I bought one of many DA exclusive kits, but I was too late for the terminators

>>96312965
NTA but if you have a squad with shields, make a shield wall? What else are you going to do, *not* fight in formation? Shields that big necessitate formation fighting, and get to be so big because they are for formation fighting

I like world eaters, but their paint scheme is too capeshitty/brightly colored and I don't want to be seen as the type of guy to enjoy brightly colored toys. Is there any excuse to paint the entire force (not just the Red Hand destroyers) black?

>>96313059
>I like world eaters
no, you don't. You miss the point of their HH scheme splattered with blood stains

>>96312893
>He's incapable of extrapolating any further than beyond the picture provided
Lol imagine being (you)
>you must also think police on horses means that horsemen are an effective military unit against machine guns
Historically speaking depending on the environment, it can be yes

Were space wolves running around with wolves in 30k or is that only 40k?
Not including Russ's siblings that he definitely lets mount him

>>96313029
They'd form shield walls, just in narrow passageways and claustrophobic hallways and not in the middle of a field

>>96313059
Put them on snow bases and splatter them with blood. Don't paint them black

>>96313107
Very much 30k too
They are in the pdf

>>96313059
You talk like a fag and you're shit's all retarded

>>96313059
You should explode.

>>96313117
Cool
Saturnine Praetor bisecting a wolf is on the table

>>96313155
Not exactly an impressive feat considering their stats

>>96313111
I think they'd form shield walls wherever they happen to meet the enemy, to be honest. Hopefully with the rest of the army supporting them ofc, as to avoid getting surrounded lol.
I mean, isn't that what the ancient peoples did for like a thousand years? I heard Greeks had the excuse all those mountains were difficult terrain for cavalry, so that's why it was infantry all day, but Romans expanded out of there and kept on, and actually expanded on the Scutum

>>96313168
That entire plan kinda goes out the window with the invention of the diesel engine and even moreso with the invention of the jet engine

>>96313059
Wanting everything to be tacticool and ”realistic” is just as cringe as capeshit.
And i despise capeshit.

>>96313168
Shieldwalls aren't universally applicable in 30k because their are too many nasty long ranged weapons in open combat. Its only useful in arcologies and space ships where most nasty long ranged weapons don't fit.

>>96312893
Shields are proven tools IRL against cultists with autoguns, so a bigger version for marines against boltguns makes sense.

>>96313059
op you're actually an RG player in denial

>>96312987

So... 9 man Terror Squad with a Librarian with Telekinesis. 2 of them have Flamers, the other two have Rotor Cannons, the rest have Chain Axes or Glaives if you've got the points.

>Havoc attempts to Stun
>Rotor Cannon attempts to Suppress
>Flamers Panic
>Librarian uses his MIND BULLETS to inflict Pinning.

Of course, you test the Panic check first and if he fails he's routed and removes all other conditions. But that's fine. He's still Initiative 1 and now I've got WS5. Then you make a disordered charge with a unit that's got Hatred (Infantry) and +1 strength, potentially AP3 weapons. That seems like a pretty optimal way of running Night-Lords.

>>96313279

Shame you can't get shielded from having a combat shield though. It is a little bit cute how it effectively gives you Duelist Edge, but without calling it that, so you can combine the two.

>>96313059
Play Terran RG if you want to play murderous shitheads who dress in black and run suicide missions for s primarch who hates them.

>>96313059
wasn't the scheme originally to look like a planet from space aka white clouds and blue water/sky which symbolically ends up splattered in red blood? Though I guess they retconned that when they gave the scheme to the warhounds who have the reversed scheme for who knows what reason?

>>96313297
Fuck the librarian, replace him with another mook with a glaive

Librarians are too expensive to spam just so your terror squads can test all 4 statuses instead of "just" 3. If your opponent has no trouble passing 3 consecutive status checks you're not suddenly gonna get him with the 4th.

Running without the librarian makes the squad way cheaper so you can afford to replace the axes with glaives and kill shit more efficiently with AP3, Breaching and shred (6+)

>>96312957
Raptors want claws or hammers (which is what ill give them)

So bayonets have gone from being almost mandatory in HH2, to a bloated waste of points in HH3?
:(

>>96313426
They were a bloated waste of points in 2.0 too, what the hell are you on about

>>96312957
WTF why are terror squads 115 points for FIVE W1 dudes? I wanted to see what they did so I checked the traitor leaks and they're 18 points per model for a despoiler with Hatred (infantry) and fear.

>>96313438
Yeah, real men gave their tacs chainswords.

>>96313426
You can give auxilia bayonets and they'll attack at I11 if you spend a reaction. Shame they'd be better off just overwatching instead lol.

>>96313059
Destroyer company

>>96313279
>autoguns
Autopistols. IRL ballistic shields are rarely rated to stop more than 9mm. 5.56 will usually blow straight through. But they also weigh between 15 and 30 lbs. Marines can handle significantly heavier shields.

>>96312930
>>96312994
its not for 30k sorry, its for playing 5th ed with friends. I just was comparing the two kind of near-black tones I've been obsessing over.

>>96313441
Well, they also get 5ppm power weapons (power weapons+) even, but yea theyre overpriced by around 3~5 ppm each.

>>96313499
You're thinking of stub pistols, auto weapons are projectile weapons that fire really fast with very short projectiles which might also be caseless. Like a G11......in shpeshhhh.

>>96313499
40k autoguns and autopistols generally fire the same bullets, they're all small calibre bullet hoses and they're usually also caseless.

Stubguns are high calibre conventional projectile weapons like our modern day guns. The Heavy stubber hasn't changed much in like, 28 thousand years.

>>96313580
>stub weapon
>not the stubby ammo weapon

>>96313517
>5th ed
Based, what are your friends playing?

>>96313544
Call me crazy but wargear options shouldn't determine the base cost of a unit and a unit sarge shouldn't tack an extra 25 points to the price of his squad for having an extra attack.

Make them 15 ppm base.

>>96313607
They're called stubguns because of the cartridge.

>>96313499
Anon, that photo shows a shield that stopped multiple AK bullets during the Bataclan terrorist attact in 2015.
So, yes: autoguns

>>96313635
Yea, theyre overpriced (and glaives are imo underpriced). They were also incredibly overpriced last edition.

>>96307399 (OP)
Best recasters? Looking to maybe pick up a Typon and Mortarion

>>96313607
Ironic isn't it? I get the fluff mixed up sometimes because of that.

All the plastic heavy weapons should have been shoulder mounted. The underslung versions suck ass

>>96307399 (OP)
Anyone feel daunted when painting heresy? Seems like heresy, more than 40K has a lot of decent painters

>>96313390

If you can give me a cheap way of chucking a Graviton Gun in there somehow, I'll take it, but I was trying to see as a thought experiment if there's any unit that can throw on all 4 statuses. Or...well... in this instance 3 and the Stun from the Rhino's Havoc launcher.
The benefit of doing it with a Terror Squad is that you've got Fear as well.

>>96313683
I feel inspired when I see good conversions and great weathering. Most of all I feel happy when I see those coming from here.

>>96313683
Just stop comparing yourself to people who paint professionally and/or spend 5+ hours a day doing it

>>96313683
Play Alpha Legion. Psyop yourself into believing your shitty paintjob is a ruse to trick your opponents into thinking you have no experience.

>>96313678
Most shoulder mounted guns are based but I prefer the ACs and HBs carried under arm.

>>96313659
nice try, James FBI Pardo

>>96313683
heresy is all about vibes, conversions, and painting your guys to a level you're proud of. nobody will judge you.... hopefully their stuff inspires you to get better as well

>>96313185
Eh, the plan could've gone out the window with the mere adoption of cavalry, which did exist. I suppose they prevented it because they diversified their army accordingly.
I could see Breachers used in ZM to, you know, breach, but can still be used on regular surface operations as to create strong points for less armoured troops to fight around, should they need to
>>96313272
This is a space age scutum, anon. It's like a scutum being able to deflect a Scorpio's bolt with a bit of luck.
What I like about this setting is that protective technologies were able to keep up with gun tech, so cavalry charging an artillery line is indeed a viable strategy.
The Machinegun settled the Curved vs Straight sword debate. But Power armour sets up round two, and they brought Invulns :^)

>>96313678
Do you have the option to use shoulder mounted versions? Honest question, I mean maybe those have been discontinued?

>>96313390
Hey Night Lords, last edition you guys were complaining about those chain polearms of yours.
Are they fine this time around?

>>96313678
Dog water opinion.
The plastic underslung weapons are kinda meh, but the FW ones with glorious CABLES are peak as fuck.

>>96313446
>Real men give AP5 Shred 6 to their Tacticals
I mean, can you? Even if you could, I think you shouldn't.
I wish chainswords were A+1 (and chainaxes simply didn't have neither A or Init modifiers). It probably still won't give them a nice, but I wish it would lmao

>>96313872
Theyre not great, but theyre better than last ed (comparatively). Twin claws and hammers are still better basically all of the time. Theyre okay power armor shredders, but unless you get them at a discount I wouldnt consider them worth it.

>>96313059
Use oils to make their scheme more gritty

>>96313938
I heard thunder hammers are sometimes cheaper, or same price at best. That's a grim scenario.
If they are going to be as much as a thunder hammer, then they should be as capable as them. Especially when chain blades and chain glaives both exist as different thing, but one is better than the other

>>96313954
>If they are going to be as much as a thunder hammer, then they should be as capable as them
Spears hit first. Chainglaives could have I+1, maybe?

>>96313990
>>96313990
>>96313990

>>96313954
>I heard thunder hammers are sometimes cheaper, or same price at best.
For units? No, both raptors and terror squad get glaives at 5ppm. Atramentar get them for free.
For characters? Yea, theyre 15ppm (power weapon +5pts) so for a power armor character theyre the same cost as a thunder hammer (cheaper for terminator characters). But that goes for every "power weapon upgrade", because of power weapons being a whopping 10ppm to a thunder hammers 15 its basically always going to be worth it to go for the hammer.

>Especially when chain blades and chain glaives both exist as different thing, but one is better than the other
Not any more. Now they both exist as different things, but have exactly the same rules. I suspect its some autistic WYSIWIG thing that prevented them just having some unified "nostraman chainweapon" or something. Or maybe glaives ARE supposed to be +2S or whatever, who knows.

Also keep in mind that night lords have the now very strong headsmans axe, which is technically a sidegrade on the thunder hammer but really a bit of an upgrade (-1S but critical blow(6+) is worth it almost all of the time imo), so the chainglaive/chainblade isnt exactly the top of the line weapon either way. Theres also the escaton power claw, which IS just a flat out better thunder hammer, but is (as last edition) overpriced for what it does (essentially +10pts for shred(6+) on a thunder hammer, at 5pts it might be worth it, but this seems a bit steep)

All in all the NL weapons arent as pathetic as last edition, but theyre not massively insane outside of the axe, which is among the top tier as far as weapons go.

>>96313968
I think you should have blades, the more restricted terminator variant, be better, maybe with a stronger breaching or shred but a lower strength mod. Glaives should just go back to S+2.

>>96313872
Chainglaives seem very good for 5 points.

>>96311040
Just got done shading in the first 2.5k of my BA

It's so hecking cute. Can't wait ot finish this.