Thread 96313990

some Anon bitched about reposting models so now it's the OP edition

Previous thread: >>96307399

Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books Scanned:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Do you have any modeling projects you're working on or are you thinking of any modeling projects or do you even have the vaguest of concepts of modeling projects to take on?

>>96313990 (OP)
>Do you have any modeling projects you're working on or are you thinking of any modeling projects or do you even have the vaguest of concepts of modeling projects to take on?
Yes, I have a gravure shoot on thursday.

>>96313990 (OP)
That anon from the last thread who mentioned being annoyed at having to see this image reposted over and over again for the next week really hit the nail on the head huh.

>>96313990 (OP)
>painting Custodes
>bashing an AL champion
>finishing my IW armistos assembly
>probably bashing a TS despoiler sgt together
>assembling the araknae

>>96314017
Yep. I have nothing to do spiting some boorish motherfucker means literally nothing to me.

I've got a recasted armiger here I only bought for a few bits and I figured I'd use the rest of the model to make a cool base but who should stand on it? A dreadnought is too large if I used it for a single dude it's gotta be a guy or a terminator to show how cool they are but what should a guy like that have or look like?

>>96313990 (OP)
>Do you have any modeling projects you're working on or are you thinking of any modeling projects or do you even have the vaguest of concepts of modeling projects to take on?
Well, I finished the special weapons for the terror squad, so now im waiting for parts to make a foot centurion and give the rest of the squad their melee weapons.

>>96314086
Herald. A herald planting their giant banner on the scrap of a downed knight.

here's my doompost for the day

>>96314094
>A herald planting their giant banne
oh that's good

Did SoS ever get those other models?
I have been out of the loop for a while

>>96314125
No, SoS only ever got ignored.

>TQ
I'm gonna be modeling some ashen circle for my AL. Any anons have some advice on the kit?

>>96314134
Oh, sad.
I suppose I better work on the Mechanicum I got myself to try and start HH.

>>96314148
Mechanicum not only got half their range in plastic but also got some of the best kits in the 30k range.

>>96313990 (OP)
Painting salamanders. Going to try to go with a bit of a disciples of the flames. Right now, I'm painting two 5 man HSS (one heavy flamer, one volkite), one predator which has some 40k stuff on it which is.. regretful but I might end up doing something about it. It's nothing really stand out. And last but not least, a 5 man Adherent squad with a Chaplain leading them.

40k style flamers are kosher right?

>>96314177
NO JEWS IN SPACE

>>96314177
of course

>>96313990 (OP)
The Typhon model is actually pretty cool, so it Mortarion, but I cannot bring myself to buy them because then I’d have to paint them and I don’t know if I can stomach fucking up those gorgeous modems

>>96313990 (OP)
>Thread Question:

Need to paint 6 Land Raiders, 3 Predators, a Thunderhawk, and a Reaver for my LI SoH.

>>96313990 (OP)
>tq
Painting land raider, then 30 mk2 dudes then need to decide if I want to keep the saturnine dreadnought and build/paint it or buy a typhon tank

>>96314177
>>96314186
>>96314188
Unless it's a primaris flamer, then we'll rape and kill your family

whats the concensus on iron havocs?

10 of them costs 60pts more than the equivalent devastator squad but get to ignore cover if they stand still, worth the 60pts?

>>96314157
A friend sent me his entire backlog of resin Mechanicum models so I have a lot to go through before I even get a chance to start plastic ones but that's great to know.

>>96314271
How much cover are you expecting to see?

>>96314015

Currently trying to decide if I want my saboteur to have a Mk2 head, or if I want to hold out and try and source a printed Mk5 helmet somehow. At this point, I'm considering just blu-tac'ing in the head for now and then source the Mk5's at a later date.
Once my Bitzbox and first Etsy order arrives I'll start on doing the Headhunters from Mk2 bodies. Then when I get notification that the Sniper rifles are in the post I'll order a box of Mk6's, and that'll be my Recon Teams, Seekers, Mor Dethyn and/or Effrits. Then from what's left I'll make a Master of Signals and his Augur team.

>>96314276
hard to say desu, still early days with my group so no ones really settled on whats "right" yet.
suppose it makes them better at digging their equivalent out of the enemies back line but desu unless im using lascannons for that theyre probably using their armour saves instead of cover anyway

desu im just not sure if im missing something about them but they seem a bit,,,,meh

Why are TS players fags?

>>96314271
They're the only unit in the game that has ignore cover outside of flamer templates. And ignore cover on a long range shooting unit is kind of oppressive.

>>96314275
They look lovely anon.

How's this for a 3k AL list?

Main detachment:
Delegatus, forge Lord in tartaros armor with familiar, 4x10 tac squads, 2 rhinos with havocs. 1x6 thallax. Logistical benefit ->augury squad.
RoT: 3x iron circle

Apex detachment-> officer cadre for another RoT: master of signals
RoT:1x10 ashen circle

Headhunter leviathal:
2x5 seekers,
2x neutron Sabers, 1 malefic, the other unlocking a Kratos
1x all volkite Kratos with locus

Allied det:Mech
Magos specced for repair and with overcharged reactor
Logistical benefit: servo Maniple
Heavy support: Thanatar Calix

>>96314338
God I fucking hate alpha legion fags

>>96314320
you're just jealous

>>96314338
How ya gonna deal with reasonable amounts of armour anon?
The thanatar is like your only AT (the saber's are often going to be a one and done since they'll likely be obliterated once they move up to neutron something).

>>96314334
Thanks anon

>get really hyped up about death guard
>want to make death guard my main force
>check LGS facebook
>some chucklefuck is playing HH death guard in the area

FUCK, FUCK, FUCK, FUCK, FUCK. IT'S FUCKING OVER

>>96314266
You motivate me to work on my IW, anon.

Is taking 2 units of gal vorbak as allies skew? Have a game with a buddy scheduled for this Saturday and I was planning on bringing my mech, but he also mentioned he was bringing his ultramarines which made me wanted to bring along what I've got painted so far for my word bearers for the lore match up. Thing is, what I've got so far is mainly my 2 units of gal vorbak and my zardu (which i can proxy as a delegatus to bring along an army vanguard in an allied detachment). Would this be power gamey?

>>96314441
Why do people get hung up on this? Just have a better/cooler/different army from him

>>96314441
KILL HIM ANON

>>96314456
"People" don't, it's the same retard posting the same bait every other thread with a different legion subbed in

>>96314441
Kill him in ritual combat to claim your rightful place as the residential DGfag.

>>96314456
My store has two IW players who focus fire each other during any multiplayer events.
It's very funny.
We had a 3v3 match. IW, SOH & DG vs Loyal IW, Ultramarines and Solar Aux.
While there was a big 2v2 happening on most of the table, Chris and Dave were laser focused only on each other.

>>96314452
Anon, by taking 1000 points of gal vorbak you are giving your opponent an unfair advantage because you've wasted 1000 points on units with dogshit rules, he should apologize to you for the rules writers raping your legion when you show up to the game

>>96314456
I think people who live in areas that aren't major population centers (where you're guaranteed to see multiple people playing the same legion/subfaction/whatever) get really attached to the idea that they're "adding" to their local group and feel a sense of pride and ownership about their legion. They can smile and say "I'm the (insert legion) guy" and feel good about contributing to the variety of legions in the area, especially if not all of them are represented in the area. So when someone else comes along and plays the same faction, or if they paint a faction only to discover that someone else plays them, it probably feels very demoralizing. Like they're redundant. Like they've contributed nothing of note to their local community.

I imagine that feeling hurts.

>>96314485
This is a pretty retarded line of thought to take though.
No one is going to enjoy playing you less just because boris on the other side of town also collect (insert army here). No one is going to think your army is any less interesting or cool, unless its like literally a copy paste of the same list or something, but even if it was, 95% of players (that actuall even play at all) play a pretty small number of actual games per year.

Honestly, its the most self imposed autism take possible.

>>96314469
Maybe, but I see these opinions outside of hhg as well.

>>96314456
It's because most people want to feel like a unique special snowflake. It's similar to women being angry at other women when they wear the same dress or something.

>>96314485
>I imagine that feeling hurts.

It's 2022. I walk to the LGS to get an age of darkness box on launch day (reserved an order). A few people are also picking up boxes. We, being excited hobbyists, get excited and form a huddle of around five.

"I'm playing sons of horus!"
"I'm playing Iron warriors!"
"Well, I'm playing Imperial fists!"
"I'll play ultramarines"

My dumb ass said "I'll play word bearers."

Over the course of about six months, I collect and fully paint a modest force of word bearers.

Imagine my shock when I find out that some guy has been playing word bearers the whole fucking time. PAIN.

>>96313990 (OP)
im some of the way through a Night Lords army
pic rel is my Sevatar (WIP)
plan is to slam him and some number of Cunt-in-cars into the enemy and i still need to come up with the rest of the army.

maybe I should just do that militia army I always wanted....

it was mostly an old-style 40k guard army idea but can be easily reworked

>>96314528
Oh, did they finally get Sevatar deep strike?

>>96313990 (OP)
>TQ
Besides the Saturnine command squad I'm currently trying to savage an Esoterist I picked up for cheap.

>>96314534
no idea
im putting em in some form of fuck mobile, probably a spartan.
would love to be able to deepstrike sevatar and 15 Cunts straight into the enemy. Might actually have reason to take flamers over volkite now that they grant Panic(1)

>>96314495
>This is a pretty retarded line of thought to take though.

I don't think so. I think it's more exciting for the existing local group if a new player comes in with a legion that hasn't appeared in that local playgroup so far than "oh, another (insert legion) player, cool." Especially if I'm just stalking my group's facebook page before starting an army to gauge what legions are being played and which ones aren't

>>96314456
My first ever game was WS v WS. I thought for sure I’d be the only WS player in my area but as I play traitor scars I quite enjoyed the matchup. But given I won not sure the other player did. But he was a full weeb tho …

>>96314441
Oof, better not play death guard, then. Wouldn't want to cause a boring game of samelegion vs samelegion

>>96314571
They looked really fun to paint...

>>96313990 (OP)
Finally working on my BA force that I have about 4k worth of points to paint.

>>96314275
These are great anon!

I need like 40-60 of these for all my of Iron Havocs.

>>96314565
I don't want to play loyalist death guard just to go against that other guy...I hate loyalists. I HATE THEM.

Why are word bearers the only chaos faction

>>96313990 (OP)
>>96314580
Also just started work on Sangunius, a Thunderbolt for my SA and a comman/retinue squad for my White Scars.

>>96314271
not even close to worth taking. It'd have to be +30 points for the gimped stationary or +60 points and working while moving. As it is, entirely worthless in every list possible.

>>96314441
The rule is if you want to start an army someone else already has, you need to paint mog them. If their models look like poo poo pee pee and yours look like kino, you have the right of way. I did this when I started a 40k white scars army when I used sprays and weathering oils to paint mog this other white scars player who had gay ass chalky models.

>>96314634
Could I mog him? These are his models

>>96314641
They're not based at all.
That's your starting point, have good bases.

>>96314641
Oh, no, those are excellently painted...BAHHHHHH HAAAAAA JUST KIDDING. HE HASN'T EVEN BASED HIS MODELS.

Buy an airbrush if you haven't already, and cook his ass. Walk into the LGS and declare him your ETERNAL FOE. RAPE HIM

>>96314641
>Only base colours, zero highlights, no legion icon transfers, slathered in cuntrast paint
Not even that hard to beat.

>>96313990 (OP)
>TQ
Strongly considering picking up daemon Fulgrim.

>>96314641
Here's an idea: you seem upset, yes? You're angry that he's playing death guard. He STOLE your army, anon.

Channel that anger. PLAY WORLD EATERS AND USE YOUR HATRED OF HIM TO DRIVE YOU. RUN 100 DESPOILERS TOWARDS HIS ARMY

>>96314641
You are they guy that if they posted their model on reddit or on a local facebook/discord group, everyone would give fake compliments to not hurt your feelings.

>>96314671
Nah, building his own DG army with a bunch of quad mortars and drowning his rival's army in phosphex sounds way more poetic.

>>96314641
those are about a 2/10. Looks like he just dunked them in brown contrast paint and then put a single layer of green on the shoulderpad / drybrushed shitty white paint with zero actual layering on the rest.

They'd be a 0/10 if they were non-deathguard. He only gets a 2 because DG looking like fucking shit is somewhat lore accurate, but they're still terribly painted.

>>96314474
Autisticly appropriate.

>>96314687
It was very funny - each turn we'd ask our corresponding IW player if they wanted to contribute to the main battle and they'd throw like, a pity Scorpius blast over at us then go back to their brawl.

>>96314391
Was assuming Iron circle would the trick

>>96314711
>Fronting like you're some alpha legion, while Fulgrim is over here performing his heart out, and what do you give him? Two tiddlywinks of artillery? I've never felt so personally offended by war-making before. You're a real asshole, pal.

>>96314441
Is he playing loyalist or traitor? Because you can just pick the opposite and do Istvaan III gaming.

>>96314338
Seems fine I guess? Kinda low on punch vs heavy shit, whether its just "mass wounrds" (big admech units), 2+ armor or big tanks. But it looks like it has a lot of very durable units and lots of line.

>>96314763
I do not know if he's playing loyalist or traitor

>>96314764
Message him on facebook and ask then, literally zero harm in doing it.

"hey there man, I notice youre playing death guard, I want to get into horus heresy and am thinking of also going death guard. Do you play loyalist or traitor? I was thinking ill go the opposite so we can have a bit of a rivalry going" or something idk.

>>96314641
I cant tell if the green(?) marines are more or less finished than the white ones (basically, is it the white ones dipped in grime and not cleaned up yet, or does the white go over the green(?). But honestly those look fine. He just needs to actually finish them.

based factions:
>solar auxilia
>militia
>mechanicum
>sisters of silence
>playing traitor legions as traitor
>playing loyalist legions as traitor
>daemons

ok factions:
>playing loyalist legions as loyalist

cringe factions:
>custodes
>playing traitor legions as loyalist

>>96314563
If you want to play an army no one else in your area is playing then that's fine, go for it.
But if you start collecting an army, then later find out someone also happens to collect the same army, then so fucking what? I'm not gonna chuck all my models in the trash or strip them and start a new army, so why would you let it bother you in the slightest?

>>96314804
Gods I'm so excited to see where my beasts of the ruinstorm land in terms of playablility and stuff. Last editions removal of shrikes killed me, as I ran 2 of them, I really hope they come back.

>>96314804
hereticus variants, based or cringe?

>>96314745
uh, and if they don't drive their shooty tanks into your big slow melee robots?

>>96314763
Good, I wanted something that was just hard to shift (and focused around the iron circle). I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be overpowered.

>>96314857
I highly doubt its overpowered.

>>96314848
Then I control the center objective with a big trio of ws5 slabs of iron (ws5 from the magos).

But no, I see what you mean. I'll see if I can put some meltas on the thallax to help a bit with ranged AT

>>96314764
Add daemons to your army. Use plage marine kits. Declare him a loyalist. If he denies it, he's a crypto-loyalist. If he already has daemons - and more than you - then you're the crypto-loyalist.

Which is the most Jewish legion in the game so play them

>shoot a tac squad at a tac squad
>kill 2 marines and lose 6

>>96314477
Them losing their rage bonus really fucking sucks.

>>96314900
word bearers

>>96314900
Alpha legion, and it's not even close.

>>96314900
Dark Angels probably.

>"first"
>insular and secretive
>autistically devoted to various rites and rituals they keep to themselvesl
>distrusted by everyone
>think theyre better than everyone else

>>96314900
Maybe not the most but I'd argue for TSons
>got shoah'd
>many cabals
>master manipulators

>>96314369
>69
>Factually correct
Nice, Tzeentch blesses.

this thread fucking sucks

>>96314900
Iron hands because they got holocausted on istvann

>>96314970
shit thread for shit edition

>>96314900
Better question, which legion is the most Aryan?

>>96314991
Ultramarines, duh

>>96313990 (OP)
Faggot ass nigga I gave you shit about your mediocre ass model on like fucking Tuesday. Have you been sitting there, checking the thread count for TWENTY FOUR HOURS nigga God DAMN. Get a fucking life, put down the phone do some push ups nigga

>>96314983
neither can die fast enough

>>96315001
mad

>>96314275
These look amazing and I genuinely wouldn't mind seeing them reposted

>>96314641
> Not even based
Yikes. What an embarrassment

So are the bongs actually dead? wtf

>>96315020
Based. 4chingchong has never been better

>>96315030
>dead thread
>only thing bumping it is fags fantasizing about jews
>based

Ok so I got a question. I think I understand how this works but I want to confirm with you all seeing as I feel retarded while reading this.
>>Instead of making a Shooting Attack with a Model with a cognis-signum the Controlling Player may instead make an Intelligence Check. If the Check is passed, the Controlling Player may select a single enemy Unit within Line of Sight of the Model with a cognis-signum. The next time the selected enemy Unit is targeted by a Shooting Attack that includes any Weapons with the Barrage (X) Special Rule during the current Shooting Phase, the Controlling Player may make Hit Tests for the attacks that have the Barrage (X) Special Rule as normal, ignoring the limitations of the Barrage (X) Special Rule as normal, ignoring the limitations of the Barrage (X) Special Rule if the unit making the Shooting Attack is without Line of Sight to the Target Unit. If the Check is not passed, the cognis-signum has no effect this turn.

Meaning if you have LOS of the target you can roll to hit instead of roll to scatter? But does nothing if you are doing indirect fire.
Units in question being a magos body guard for a thanatar with plasma mortar.

>>96314821

This is a very petty thing but I'm interested to see which of Solar Aux, Militia and Cults and Demons of the Ruinstorm end up on top of "big blobs of high morale chaff" because my traitor Sons of Horus and my loyalist Blackshields/Mechanicum both want some chaff in front that tac squads and thralls aren't currently providing, and I want to actually use that slavedriver consul for style points.

Hell, maybe Blackshields will have their old cheap and shitty gear back and I can do it with those guys. No idea how they're going to work in this edition, they were always somewhat overcomplicated.

>>96315081
tech thralls are now 10 points per model, pucker your anus all who enter here

>>96315074
dunno how you can't understand that.
Barrage allows indirect fire with a penalty. A spotter takes an intelligence test to remove the penalty entirely. It's that simple.

>>96315074
>But does nothing if you are doing indirect fire.
No, thats the situation where it does anything. Barrage weapons can fire indirectly but they always scatter, the signum lets them roll to hit to avoid scatter.

>>96315086

Yeah, even for mech with Lacarymaerta Apex I'm tempted to leave them at home and bring lasrifles/militia/demons instead.

>>96315096
Ok I realized my fuckup. Since in the barrage it says roll X dice per barrage value. I was going off old info of scatter die an 2D6 - BS was the formula. So the 'penalty' of rolling 2 dice seemed like part of the basic thing. I didn't see that they made it scatter and 1D6 for this edition. Gods damn so much is changed so arbitrarily.
I was thinking it just removed the 2D6 and therefore was a binary hit or miss.

>>96314764
This is why Dark Angels are great. It doesn't matter what alignment anyone else has. If they're fighting, they're traitors. If they didn't evacuate fast enough, they're traitors. If they question why that guy over there is summoning daemons to kill traitors and then get killed by the daemons summoned to kill traitors, they're traitors.

>>96314641
That's a you question. Those models are badly and incompletely painted, so executing even a basic paint job reasonably well would mog him.

Even with zero experience you could look up a guide (they make these as videos now) and follow the instructions and have something much better. However you night be fucking stupid and not even be able to follow step by step instructions, or be the same kind of idiot as the other guy and think that it's fine to just not paint details or base the model, in which case you may as well give up now.

Serious lore question thats going to change my army building, I want to hear thoughts/speculation/obscure references from Black Books.

Realistically, how many suits of MKII armor were the Death Guard fielding post Istvaan?

DG are obviously one of the "MKIII Legions" through and through, and the majority of MKII would have been deployed to Terran Dusk Raiders, who were all put out to pasture in bulk at Istvaan III.

But timeline wise, how much overlap was there between Mortarion's discovery and the deployment of MKIII? How many, if any, Barbarans would have been issued MKII?

>>96315223
Mk3 is literally just mk2 with extra armour bolted onto the front.
If your dudes have access to mk3, then they have access to mk2.

>>96315223
Unless you are actually fielding hundreds of marines then in-lore logistics aren't enough of an influence on your list. You can't field enough of anything at 3k to be inaccurate. Abstracting any ratio is a fallacy. Pick what you want. That said if you need a basis to begin a hobby project and need that arbitrary structure, the, older marks for veteran units works for any legion.

>>96315223
You see Mk2 all the way through the siege, it's just that ubiquitous. If DG aren't using Mk3, then Mk2 is almost certainly what they're wearing.
A lot of the art of Isstvan III has traitors and loyalists wearing Mk2

Leviathan added to the gang of old. Post models

>>96315223
Mark 3 was probably developed early-ish great crusade since like anon said it's basically just mark 2 with extra armor on the front. But even then Mark 3 wasn't really intended to be general issue and was more for heavy assault units, though pretty much the entire DG legion could be considered that.

Mark 2 was the standard issue for at least the first half of the crusade, and we can assume that each legion when it switched over to mark 3/4 kept that armor around for a rainy day. Once the Heresy starts and the legions start crash programs to massively increase their numbers, it stands to reason that a lot of newly-minted marines (or current marines) would still be rocking this mark 2 stockpile, either from the reserves or old-fashioned 'this baby got me through 3 rangdan xenocides sonny, mark 2 is all you'll ever need!'

>>96313990 (OP)
based OP
>Thread Question:
Assembling some jetbikes. Waiting on the new satty dread weapons. Then my TS will be assembled and I can batch prime/base.

Does anything have Fear (3) yet? Flicking through the slightly shambolic Word Bearers rules and wondering if there's a combo here that allows me to mind control a Primarch, just for the bit. Base Zardu and his flunkies can control any model with WP8 or below, but more intense Fear should raise that.

>>96314320
retard hubris

>>96313990 (OP)
TQ: Kitbashing my radfurnaced Archmagos and magosi on foot. This is the archmagos, who will be babysitting a decemator. Once I'm done printing some booba minis I will print off some servo skulls for familiars. I swear I have a singular raven bit, somewhere....

>>96313990 (OP)
>tq
I forgot to add parchment to my mk4 word bearers before adding paint to them so i've ordered 2 more boxes to do just that.
Also, what are some good ways to make parchment and "purity" seals?

>>96315387
nope, only 4 models in game have fear(2).
Zardu Layak's main bonus is that you can steal say a lightning claw termie, stab his thunderhammer teammates with it, then the thunderhammer teammates attack and you can force them to teamkill the stolen dude first.

>>96315480
is it possible to steal a champion before a challange?

>>96315387
>>96315480
Contemptors have willpower 7...

>>96314585
find similar 3d prints

>>96315387
Konrad Curze is only 8 willpower for some reason, so if you put Fear next to his Fear(2), he'll still drop low enough for Zardu Layak to pokemon a primarch.

>>96315490
it's impossible. Challenges phase takes place before the fight phase.

>>96315223
>How many, if any, Barbarans would have been issued MKII?

Mortarion (and therefore the first Barbaran Death Guard) wasn't discovered until 854.M30 (about 50 years into the Great Crusade), and MkIV wasn't issue until like 900-something?

MkII and MkIII were issued pretty much alongside one another until MkIV came along, but the Death Guard had a "marked preference" for MkIII - there's no reason to assume this began with Mortarion as they tended to operate as heavy infantry long before he was recovered, and in that case you would expect (and the black books artwork reflects) that they'd have more MkIII than anything else

so it's really up to you, although Betrayal has DG at Isstvan III wearing MkIV, MkIII and at least one guy wearing MkIV repaired with MkII parts (helmet and pauldron) as battlefield repairs, and it has them wearing MkII in other engagements

>Legion champion with Paragon prime bonus
>WS 7 and 6 attacks
>Cheaper than a praetor
If champions still could take any melee melee weapon instead of a paragon blade there wouldn't be a reason to bring a praetor. Besides master of the legion I guess. That special detachment a legion champion unlocks is also neat. One retinue, elite, and heavy support slot. It basically has everything you need to bring some elite melee in one detachment.

Hey guys, this is the idea I have for an Alpha Legion army. What should I add to this core? Effrit can help proc statuses...but that'll be anti infantry, and I think I already have enough of that

Saboteur
Saboteur
Command Rhino
Lernean
Lernean
LR Explorator
LR Explorator
Effrit melta, knives
Effrit snipers

>>96314900
World Eaters, because Angron is Jewish.

>>96315491
not sure how that would work if the contemptor is by itself, but multi charging a squad that has a dread close by and having it swing into it's allies sounds funny.

>>96315582
I really want to see a pride of the legion style army run entirely by an old tired delegatus and 2 bickering twin champions, but I have no idea who'd even fit the bill. Maybe emperor's children, or dark angels? Wild card could be ultramarines, have them represent pathos (brash champion), ethos (bleeding heart champion), and logos (delegatus done with their shit)

>>96315582
Yet the Herald is the one that gets VP for killing people.

>>96315597
Oof I hate that. But idk what they could have instead. Let's remember Chaplains were the ones who used to cause Fear in 1.0, on top of what is now Hatred (all).

>>96315591
multi-charging has been removed from the game.

You'd have to either charge the dreadnought or the non-dreadnought unit and aren't allowed to touch any squads other than your charge target.

If I'm doing a dark metallic blue and brass trim for Alpha Legion what's a good secondary panel color? Light grey?

>>96315596
Alpha Legion. They have a threefold motif, so they totally would embody Pathos, Ethos and Logos

>>96315609
*and if zardu layak charges the dreadnought, mind controls it, there are zero legal targets for the dreadnought to attack at its initiative step and zero legal targets for zayak to attack, so it does nothing.

>>96315480

Good to know, thank you. I think in that case there's little reason not to steal a proper hammernator, but obviously it varies by squad.

>>96315507
>>96315491

I fully did not notice that, interesting. Highly unlikely you'll get to face off against him without him being in a challenge, but it's fun that that's possible, considering Zardu's flunkies have Fear (1) already.

The contemptor seems like a more feasible grab, with a good enough furball.

>>96315596

I feel this is a natural use case for the World Eaters and their Chain-bonded Prime option, since if I'm reading this right the other Champ in the pair can get Paragon and still benefit.

>>96315609
oh... that's unfortunate.

>>96315616
Damn, that's what i thought but was hoping there was something that could get around it.

>>96315609
Yeah you have to rely on your opponent being a dumbass and charging in a dreadnought to help his buddies

>>96315606
The Herald should unlock the detachment of elite badasses in a heavy transport and the champion should get VP for killing people.

>>96315623
Bro wtf you fixed it so easy lmao

Honestly, thoughts on just deep striking the saturnine praetor on his own as a backline disruption piece and tactical muncher? Idea is to force the enemy to come and deal with him or he's going to trundle over and keep routing his backline squads, considering he's fairly tanky even on his own and only needs to inflict a few wounds to force a rout. Also, I find the idea of a bunch of scared tacticals and rapier crew running from a crazed Jason-like beast of an Astartes in exo armor the size of a primarch hilarious and fluffy

>>96315623
>>96315628
Dunno why herald lost its gimmick of having a scoring IC, considering master of memery can just magically cast line on any of your units remotely.

Honestly, the master of signals is such a gay fucking 'gamey' unit now, its literal purpose is to cast magic spells to help you (the player, not the army) score VP's arbitrarily.

>>96315708
Sure, why not?

>>96315708
Was considering the same thing. Much less of a deep strike points investment, but still enough durability and damage to cause havoc.

>>96315480
>only 4 models in the game have fear(2)
Which ones are those? Still not fully familiar with the units in 3.0

Some anon pointed out to me a few days ago that perdition weapons can effectively make Blood Angels have fear(2). Seems a bit thematically weird to have a unit like Sanguinary Guard inflict terror akin to Night Lords, regardless of how effective it is.

>>96315586
Recon starts with R of Rsabre's Neutron Laser. Too bad they can't kill any vehicle though. It's 90 pts of Shock (Suppressed)

>>96315828

Five, I think. Angron Transfigured, Fulgrim Transfigured, Kurze, Sevatar and Anacharis Scoria in the mech book.

>>96315716
Coordinating who does what sounds like what a signals-command officer should do, even if it is a gross misuse of a superhuman bodybuilder's stats. What else should he do? Calling an artillery strike from just outside the map kinda felt lame idk

>>96315860
I am generally really opposed to mechanics like this that benefit the player, or meta stuff like number of vp's scored, vs stuff that benefit Your Dudes on the ground.

Its why I don't like strategems/reactions - its a magic trap card activated by the player, instead of something a given unit is innately doing. Having one unit go to ground/overwatch should have zero bearing on another unit overwatching on the other side of the board - its too 'gamey', instead of being a wargame.

So when a master of signals benefited a unit by improving their shooting, thats an ingame thing they are doing (helping with targeting/lasing a target/communicating with artillery over the vox, etc) vs casting a magic spell on one particular unit of terminators, so it can suddenly hold a magic circle better for some reason?

>>96315613
Amaranth

>>96315911
This is just you making a false distinction between calling giving a unit Line a magic spell, but not calling making a unit shoot better the same thing. When arguably the latter is much closer to a magic spell than giving a unit Line or Vanguard. A unit gaining one of those rules just is the Master of Signals designating some priority target or location to a unit, which that unit then has to capitalise on in order to secure victory.

tldr: you're being an autistic cunt.

>>96315946
Talking is witchcraft, anon. It's a woman's thing after all
>>96315911
Why is some hill worth VP in the first place? Why is making people run away from that hill also worth VP? Land that and you may be able to correlate why issuing new orders about it may be worth extra VP

>>96315946
The distinction is because vp's are a meta thing - its not something actually in the game realm, whatever you want to call it.

Allowing a unit to capture an objective (i.e. herald in 2e) is more fluffy, since simply holding an objective can be fluffed as anything you want (holding a breach in a wall, downloading vital data, rummaging around for a mcguffin, etc), but simply saying 'you get more vp's for standing in the circle because another unit has cast an ability' is more arbitrary. For that matter, the whole system of line(x) instead of simply scoring/not scoring is in the same bucket for me. Same with vanguard actually. You 'win' the conflict because terminators shot some dudes to death instead of a heavy support squad is extremely arbitrary and I can't really explain in world.

I totally get lots of people wouldn't give a shit about this, but that's the kinda of game that got me into 30k from 40k, back in the 1e days, so I do find it disappointing that its been gamified so much.

>>96316015
NTA but I get what you mean; the push for objective focus I don't think is bad but they've gone about it in a pretty gamey and comp-like way which makes far less narrative sense than terminators not being able to hold objectives like in 2.0. Something like vanguard also especially seems sketch since I can get that maybe lore wise it's supposed to represent a real killing blow and disentivising the enemy command from pursuing an objective but like
>"My liege, the praetor and his command squad of 10 terminators have just wiped out 40 marines and a full squad of veterans at objective alpha"
>"eh, who cares, send in the next wave."
>"okay...More bad news sir, an assault squad of 10 marines has killed 3 of our own at objective beta and sent the squad running scared. They're very likely to push back onto the objective howe-"
>"By the warmaster.............We have been tactically misplayed this time......We might have to prep for a full scale retreat....."

>>96316015
I'm sorry, anon. The alternative would be for Line X to be kinda like HotL, as in (for 3.0) the X would be the ammount of Ld/Cool penalty it gets to ignore when on an objective. Basically ordering someone to hang onto that objective because it is necessary. The same way, Vanguard X could be an extra penalty the unit gets to impose when they defeat someone on an objective. As if being ordered to be extra ruthless.
We just aren't having it :(

>>96316015
The fact that you think that having units more suited to hold objectives while some units are more suited to assault objectives, both on a sliding scale, is less gamey then actually your Terminators just aren't allowed to control the objective for arbitrary reasons, unless a dude with a flag joins them then it's totally cool, but actually if there's one dreadnought standing nearby you don't get to control it at all even with flag dude speaks miles to your intelligence

>>96316110
NTA but neither of these mechanics are good.

>>96316110
>is less gamey
It's all gamey. And everything should control objectives, stuff should simply be pushed to hold ground or chase after enemies through incentives ("this unit is better at holding ground"), not penalties ("we forbid this unit from earning too much VP")

>>96316015
They introduced prog scoring into 2.0 ZM. Those missions devolved that game mode into who could bring the most scoring units to stand around and rack up points. I like lots of infantry, my group almost entirely plays ZM for this reason, but after 10 games or so it became super boring. Even with the cool ZM terrain it was just guys standing in hallways scoring points.

The core missions in 3.0 are lame and flavorless. We really needed 6, with 3 kill focused. Letting players build an army after seeing the mission (IE: min max) is also super dumb. Part of the balance of list design was taking something balanced b/c you didn't know exactly what you were going to roll.

>>96316143
>not penalties ("we forbid this unit from earning too much VP")
Devil's advocate, Support Squads is just that.

I don't think it helps that the only game type is Progressive scoring, vs having Progressive scoring, end of game scoring, Kill Points, Area control, and combinations of former like last edition had

On one hand, I'm happy the auxilia got the new command sections, they're like consul options, specialists that can add some personality and buffs to the army. On the other hand they lack the most important part: personality. I hope they get some unique wargear options in future updates so that you can give something special to their leaders.

>>96316110
You can enjoy the game however you want my friend, and that's all it is, an opinion, but a unit shooting a squad of tacticals on an objective and scoring 3 VP because they have aura of victory enabled, while another squad with identical weapons get 0 VP for doing the same thing because they don't have the special rule is ??? There is no in game way to explain this, especially since they've made it even more gamey and the MOS can apply the aura to any unit.

Yes there always has to be some level of gamification in a game, but certain things are far more or less immersive than others.
Certain units not being equipped to 'take' an objective, whatever it might be, is a lot more sensical than 'slaughtering this unit holding an objective means literally nothing, but if a MOS is shouting at you on the vox when you do it, suddenly its a strategic master play that helps win the meta battle?

>>96316148
Scoring at the start of the turn is way better than end of the turn scoring since it
A: means you actually need to HOLD an objective, not just bum rush it and tag it, and
B: Your opponent can actually react to what you're doing, and punish you for being greedy.

>>96316109
Line/vanguard giving buffs to actually helping hold/take objectives would be giga based desu, I would love that so much more.

Flamers should have Rending (6+)
Terminator armor (both variants) should get Battle-Hardened (1) against shooting attacks
Axes should lose AP2 and only have +1S
Spears have Sudden Strike (1)

>>96316151
Yeah, I don't agree with Support Squad. I understand the developers need you to take something other than only those squads (tax), but surely there's other ways to achieve that? If they want you to bring tacticals to secure ground instead of HSS, make them cheaper than them (so you can spam them), and make them score objectives better (Line 2), instead of making HSS score bad (Support Squad).
Hey wait a minute, that's what happens already!
Any time I take a deeper look at 3.0 I find something else I disagree with. I think the only thing I actually like of it is non-Assault transports allowing Disordered charges. Idk if I'd take anything else back to 2.0.
>Progressive scoring, vs having Progressive scoring, end of game scoring, Kill Points, Area control, and combinations of former

>>96313990 (OP)
I really like Mark IV armour but are they tiny compared to everything else now?

>>96316199
Yeah, miniscule.

>>96316151
>vs having Progressive scoring, end of game scoring, Kill Points, Area control, and combinations of former
That's a lot of extra words to say "progressive scoring or kill points"

What's a cool melee weapon to give an Iron Warriors Heavy Bolter Armistos?

>>96316227
The only melee weapon armistos's should be allowed take is power fists or lightning claws (finger or curze pattern)

>>96316176
>Flamers should have Rending (6+)
Why? Even today anyone wearing firefighter gear would be greatly resistant to flames, and Solar Auxilia are armoured on top of that.
>Terminator armor (both variants) should get Battle-Hardened (1) against shooting attacks
Nah. I believe lascannons should kill them. We need more guns that can kill terminators, not less: we already lost both plasma and regular disintegrators.
>Axes should lose AP2 and only have +1S
Ew no. Axes could afford to be fully AP2. E.g.: You attack a terminator with an axe, and roll a 3. It fails to wound, nothing changed.
Say you attack a tactical with an axe. It rolls a 4. It goes through like armour wasn't there...just like right now that it is AP3. Changing Axes to full AP2 won't break anything.
>Spears have Sudden Strike (1)
No, and this is because spears walls strike before other weapons whether they are attacking or defending

>>96316237
This whole edition is ass

>>96313990 (OP)
Rrrrrhino. Need to do my hazards when I get in from work. The next part of my plan for my army is to build a squad of Veteran Breachers in Mkii, then put together a Plasma TSS squad.

Scale creep is fucking ridiculous

*mogs you*

>>96316281
*knots you*

>>96316261
based

>>96313990 (OP)
So seeing as I can now have as many allied detachments as I want as long as it caps out at no more than 50% of my points, is there anything stopping me from having an army with a Consul from every Legion in it?

>>96316331
You read my mind anon

>>96316320
>is there anything stopping me from having an army with a Consul from every Legion in it?
Yes, the fact you should have at least 2 from the Alpha Legion in said list

>>96315844
>D3
I don't trust it. It's no Magna Laser. Though idk what mounts a neutron battery

>>96316350
no restriction on allies being different factions from each other- OP can go full ranger mode

>>96315844
>>96316396
Neutron blasters have always been extremely dicey for trying to destroy vehicles. It's why you mostly saw sabres in squadrons, because a single one could not be counted on.

Sabre missiles are only 5 points each and have D2 though, and each sabre can take up to four. That seems like somewhat decent for cheap ish alpha strike against a medium or light vehicle.

>>96316331
Lets see...
>Black with white accents: RG
>Pink: EC
>Red with white accents: TS
>White with gold/bronze: DG?
>Yellow: IF
>Blue: UM

Is attaching a Warmonger to a max unit of Reavers+ Saturnine Praetor and deepstriking the entire blob a good idea or not? I feel like taking Jump Packs would be more logical but I really like the idea of a massive terminator and a bunch of power axe marines teleporting into the fray.

>>96316396
>Though idk what mounts a neutron battery
Cerberus

>>96316462
Red is the leader so obviously he would be a blood angel.

>>96316506
You mean a Word Bearer

>>96316515
Only if we're doing traitors.

>>96316462
>White with gold/bronze: DG?
Luna Wolf?

>>96316518
>Only if we're doing traitors.
Half of what anon listed were traitors.

>>96316523
Okay?

>>96316274
It's just the pose, if the ligma marines were standing straight up they would match the height of nu-mk2.

>Swapping a shotgun for a sniper rifle is 5 pts
>Swapping a banestrike shotgun for a sniper rifle is 10 pts
Developers should be forced to play Traitors vs Loyalists. I hate this favoritism. I bet they're the kind of player who thinks SA should always lose to SM (and I bet you fucks think that's good for game balance)

Worth getting Raptors 3D printed or should I kitbash them from the MKVI kit?

So, you can no longer infiltrate inside transports, huh

suitably ethnic line (2) chaff for my choggos

>>96311869
They had 8 during the Shadow Crusade actually, because it's mentioned there were another seven alongside Fidelitas Lex and some of said seven "had once borne the colours of other Legions".

So that's probably what happened to Flamewrought (the Sallies one) and Fist of Iron (the IH one) given they're not mentioned following Isstvan. Still a better fate compared to Shadow of the Emperor managing to lose a carrier duel to a non-Gloriana despite being outfitted specifically as a giant carrier.

So unless Chronicle of Ashes was one of those two (on one hand, it'd make sense if it was actually the renamed Flamewrought, on the other then why didn't they give it back to the Sallies) that leaves four that were either in the WB from the start or the Shattered Legions had more but got them nicked as well.

Compare that to the DA having three named ones in Invincible Reason, Truth's Razor and Paradigm of Hate (the last died to the Rangda pre-Heresy) and enough unnamed that they could head 'many' expeditionary fleets with them. Similarly some other Legions had at least two named ones, SoH with Vengeful Spirit and Magna Tyrannis, AL with Alpha and Beta, and IF with Eternal Crusader and Burden of Duty (the latter of which they left at Cthonia to garrison it instead of recalling it for the Siege for some reason?) and the regular Navy had one (Amphion).

So wouldn't be surprising if each Legion had at least two (one for the Primarch and one for a backup/First Captain/whatever) and some like the DA had more. Especially since GW both seems to be adding more over time to use as Avatars of Khaine or Emperor Titan equivalents in saying how relevant/important XYZ event is...and then at the same time saying in the End and the Death that only 20 were built when we have at least 25 of them named already.

>>96316564
I mean it was never really that logical that Seekers could Fred Flintstones their Land Raider into the middle of enemy lines

>>96316577
>Using Chinese-looking SA for the Chogoris city-dweller levies
Based

>>96316579
>Still a better fate compared to Shadow of the Emperor managing to lose a carrier duel to a non-Gloriana despite being outfitted specifically as a giant carrier.
This never made sense, because it was the Terminus Est that did it and the fluff says
>The Terminus Est, under the command of First Captain Calas Typhon, was one of the few capital ships of the Death Guard Legion at Isstvan V. When the Traitors revealed their treachery, the Terminus Est suddenly engaged and treacherously destroyed the unprepared Shadow of the Emperor. It is argued by many Imperial scholars that this engagement was the earliest recorded conflict between battleships that were specialised to carry attack craft.
The Death Guard weren't one of the second wave that turned out to be traitors, they were one of the original traitor legions?

Were the Beakies retarded enough to just let the Terminus Est hang out with them anyway or did it pretend to be from one of the other Legions and somehow manage it despite explicitly being extremely recognisable due to the bow hangar?

>>96316430
S7 does nothing strike against medium vehicles and nearly nothing strike against light vehicles.
The dmg2 is a lie because it's impossible for it to actually do 2 points of damage to a basic AV13 vehicle.
And it's extremely rare for it to do 2 damage to an AV12 vehicle.
Considering the cost, they're not cheap-ish at all.
You need an entire squadron of sabres to actually threaten a vehicle, except the squadron of sabres are fragile and shitty and prone to killing zero vehicles. It's never better to buy them instead of just a Kratos which has 10x the firepower, stable move and shooting and 14/14/14 armor which is easily more than 10x the durability compared to sabres.

>>96316579
I'd also like to note that BL at least clearly has no one keeping track of the Glorianas because Fidelitas Lex explicitly died during the Shadow Crusade only to reappear at the Siege of Terra with no explanation

>>96316611
Having fun dedicating a 300 points kratos to kill one 60 points rhino

>>96316646
Why even bother shooting Rhinos when they have the same firepower of an overly ambitious tactical marine?

>>96316670
>Thinks the main purpose of a Rhino is the firepower it brings
Ok dude I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with an inbred fucking retard, have a nice day.

>>96316686
Either the squad inside it is sitting in it doing jack shit or they're outside it and therefore what you should actually be shooting.

>>96314533
As in an army of these with rhinos, preds and egg-nels? I saw pics of one from a hh event floating around some years ago and it was pretty cool. I have one of the old epic boxes that has them but that project is on hold till I finish the IH/IF tag team bodt army.

>>96316604
> How do you do fellow loyalists?
> I too love Mk6 Armour and fighty tyrants

>>96316604
>>96316741
Ravens are attracted to carrion anon

>>96316646
have fun dedicating 300 points of sabers to kill one 60 points rhino, retard.

>>96316765
have fun dedicating 300 seconds to pleasuring my one 60lbs ass, loverboy.

>>96315020
Bongistan has been oppressing its people for longer than America has existed, I'm sure they're used to it by now.

>>96316611
>And it's extremely rare for it to do 2 damage to an AV12 vehicle.

it's 1/9

>>96316746
Yeah Carrion marinated in posion gas sounds lovely.

>>96316577
I knew Cathays boys would look good with lasrifles, based conversion anon.

>>96316611
I really don't know why the Sabre didn't just get the Aethon treatment and get given a hunter killer missile battery.

A limited (2) FP2 Hunter killer would not be that busted on the Sabre surely?

>>96314880
Didn't the death guard despise sorcery/psykers/daemons until typhon fucked them over on their warp trip to terra?

>>96316547

That's just a "Nobody actually prooferead the Legends PDF because they were just trying to put it out before people storming the Nottingham HQ and dragged them out to be disembowls and strung up on the lightposts" thing rather than a Loyalists Vs Traitors thing.

>>96316892
Mortarion did, but Mortarion also split the DG into two fleets for the majority of the heresy: a fleet led by himself, and a fleet led by Typhon, who is buddies with Erebus and worships chaos well before the HH even begins. Just say your DG are part of Typhon's force and that they're summoning daemons

>>96314773
Uh...I don't know who he is. No names are posted. Just pictures.

>>96314773
>"hey there man, I notice youre playing death guard, I want to get into horus heresy and am thinking of also going death guard. Do you play loyalist or traitor? I was thinking ill go the opposite so we can have a bit of a rivalry going"

This seems like a good way to weird someone out and make them think you're a freak.

>>96316430
>5 points
That's an extra 20pts per vehicle, not even for a kill, just to threaten
Anon just start the game with a 20 X point deficit at least you can beg for initiative

>>96313990 (OP)
>Do you have any modeling projects you're working on or are you thinking of any modeling projects or do you even have the vaguest of concepts of modeling projects to take on?
Yes I am a nechanicummer so I am doing some dumb bullshit like usual

>>96313990 (OP)
Seeing as the Disgraced status from losing a challenge is explicitly a Status effect, would it be a good idea to put a character in a Terror Squad and have him challenge whenever possible (intentionally seeking out units with shit like the Master of Signals)? If he's rejected, boom, unit is effected by Talent for Murder for the rest of the phase.

Especially since even if he accepts, he's not actually able to kill my character, I'll just leave the challenge

>>96316972
>Especially since even if he accepts, he's not actually able to kill my character, I'll just leave the challenge
That's not how it works retard

>>96316720
no, I meant like 4th ed cadians

but those guys ARE cool

So collecting night lords is expensive due to all the trophy racks and skulls and skin cloaks and chainglaives and whatnot, yes?

>>96317086
if you want to do correct nightlords, yes. They're one of the flamboyant legions, like salamanders / space wolves / world eaters.

>>96317035
Oh, of course you meant those. A bit generic imo but with a bit of love I can see them work. Do you already have some fluff to go with them?

Why does riding a motorcycle make praetors stupider?

>>96317095
At least the WE and Sallies aren't wearing human skins there anon.

>>96317103
Because they don't wear helmets, put 2 and 2 together

>>96316920
You do realise how stupid that is right?
You won't collect an army You want because someone you don't even know the name of collects it...
>>96317009 Night Lord gambit a mook into the challenge, problem solved.

>>96317095
Does that require a lot of greenstuff or something?

You reckon I could get away with using this guys claws and cloak with a dark fury body and jump pack? Or are they going to look rediculously big on that body?

>>96317086
Good news! The Legacies rules say that chainblades are identical, and they're "chainglaives, but adapted for one-handed use." Which just means they look like chainswords. And they have the exact same stats as chainglaives. No conversion required whatsoever for your terror squads and night raptors!

But yes, trophy racks, skin cloaks and skulls are good to have for night lords. But there's ways around the "cost." GW sells a pack of 340 skulls for $35. Use greenstuff to make spikes, cut a hole in the skulls, stick those fuckers inside of the spikes. You now have trophy racks. Glue them to the waists of your models, too. You can greenstuff skin cloak and skin masks, see pic related.

There are ways to bling them out without breaking the bank

>>96317086
Its mostly the chainglaives desu. Trophy racks are everywhere in 40k so if you collect CSM you'll have plenty, GW literally sells a box of over 300 individual skulls and its pretty easy to greenstuff skin.

>>96317214
>rtb01 marines

I KNEEL

>>96317214
>"chainglaives, but adapted for one-handed use." Which just means they look like chainswords. And they have the exact same stats as chainglaives. No conversion required whatsoever for your terror squads and night raptors!

I'd prefer using CSM legionnaire chainswords, you get plenty in raptor and legionnaire 40k kits.

Of course I'm assuming everyone collects 30k and 40k traitors like I do. If you don't already have a box of spare 40k CSM bits it could get expensive very quickly.

>>96317100
the original plan was for a 40k guard army, the 122nd cadian "crossblades" (symbol was simple 2 crossed swords) with a colour scheme of tan and blue,
I can probably rework it for heresy, might get a bunch of FW hostile environment kits to give them some extra flavour

>>96317229
I don't have a box of 40k CSM chainswords. I have no reason to play 10th edition.

>>96317186
They'll look big but there are a lot of oversized lightning claws so they won't seem too unusual.

>>96317243
>playing 10th edition.
I just like the models, most of the CSM range is gorgeous even if the game is currently in the shitter.

>>96317086
This kind of confusion is a product of what modern GW has done to the hobby. All that’s required of you is some imagination, time, and effort to create the kind of night lords who would be adorned in human remains. Spare bits are great, a 3d printer makes it a breeze, but there isn’t anything you can’t do with a tube of green stuff.

>>96317229
>>96317243
Eh, getting the CSM chainswords on their own isn't particularly difficult if you know where to look. If I were starting out, I'd probably just get a plastic assault squad, a set of resin chainglaives, and a good dozen or so CSM chainswords and the legion melee weapons pack (mainly for the bolt pistols and access to power weapon bits, which are handy). Give the plastic HH assault squad some of the chainglaives (use the others for characters) and intersperse the standard chainswords with the CSM chainswords. Use the remaining CSM chainswords to intersperse amongst some footsloggers to make a chainblade terror squad (terror squads are so overpriced and their rules so jank that they're not actually points efficient at anything aside from melee. Rotor cannons are better on tactical support squads and volkite is better on veteran tactical squads). Voila. Repeat as desired

>>96317243
Be a real Night Lord and take them from someone

>>96317282
>Be a real Night Lord and take them from someone who can't fight back
Fixed

>>96317316
>be a real night lord and RAPE THEM

fixed

When I'm done with my Iron Warriors, what should I work on next? I've done Imperial Fists, Word Bearers, some SoH and a smallish Mechanicum force before for 30k, need something totally different.

Thinking maybe Scars? Loyalist Emperor's Children?

Is a 10 man squad of chainfist wielding command terminators the most hilarious thing you can field in HH? They'll kill any tank they come across and will wound Saturnine and Leviathan dreads on 2s, but are required to charge them.

>>96317243
You can buy a dozen of them off a single ebay seller. Pic related, these listings are by a single seller, and most of the options have 3 in stock each.

>>96315582
Praetor gets you a reaction and apex detachment. There's plenty of reason. Not everyone is taking a champ either. I'm avoiding duels entirely

>>96317341
>mfw I deep strike 10 chainfist command altramentar behind the enemy superheavy on turn one

Word Bearers should get Axe-Rakes as a melee weapon like SoH get Carsoran axes

Prove me wrong

Sorry for asking again but I'm on the hunt for bits to get - what's a good solid loadout for Veteran Breachers? Thinking some Chainaxes, Mauls, Lascutters, maybe a powerfist or two? Do I want to keep some bolters in there?

>>96317389
What Legion?

>SoH herald with a carosan axe (or the big 2 handed one), in a unit of chieftans

good idea? the herald needs to challenge, the melee weapon is good, and the chieftans get a bonus if the character that joins them fights in a challenge (which makes shit with breaching and/or shred more deadly on them as it'll basically increase the value of those by 1, eg 5+ becomes a 4+)

>>96317397
IW, so no particular benefit to them in CCQ or ranged.

>>96317366
>you can't charge out of deep strike anymore so you sit there. If you went first, I shoot you with my superheavy's guns and move 10 inches away. If you went second, I do this in the next turn.
>You were already at least 5 inches away
>you must now move your 520 point unit 6-7 inches towards my unit. You are now 8-9" away from my unit
>it is now impossible for your 520 point unit of terminators to charge me if they're Cataphractii, and you need a 5 or 6 on one of the charge dice if they're tartaros

Get fucked.

>>96317404
Alternatively
>Super heavy it's parked butt to edge because it's top of turn 1

>>96317404
Either
>I made you waste a turn shooting at a 520 point unit of cataphractii with 4+ invulnerable saves with a 650 point fellblade/falchion in a game with only four turns.
OR
>since it's 2d6 drop lowest, for charges my depleted 520 point unit of tartaros is probably going to make the 5" charge and chainfist your 650 point superheavy to death anyway

>>96317371
Carsoran axes are traditional Cthonian weapons. Axe rakes are a specialised tool used by one formation.

Besides Lorgars home is the Space middle east so if WBs get legion blades they should probably be some flavour of Scimitar like a Saif or Shamshir.

>>96317401
I'd say go full melee only because you for whatever reason you can't only swap some models for Shrapnel Bolters, it's apparently all or nothing.

So swap all their pistols for Shrapnel Pistols and load up on whatever melee weapons you want, personally I'd go for mostly anti-MEQ shit like Chainaxes/Mauls and use the squad to clear objectives of Tacticals and the like. Just make sure to shoot the Shrapnel Pistols in the Shooting Phase at your target so you can actually apply pinning.

>>96317399
Sounds good anon, only question is does Breaching require an unmodified roll like GW is pushing in most of their games now or is it still like it used to be?

Also give them a Legion Standard (herald's is different now and it buffs him in Challenges) and model the guy carrying it as the Little Horus to his Horus

>>96317416
>Pic Related

>>96317404
It's a superheavy on turn one. It's not going to have 10" behind it. If I place the deep striking chainfisters in front of your superheavy on turn one, you're FUCKED on turn two. Your only defense is to charge the chainfisters with something else that will tie them up in melee and/or kill them in melee. So basically the only hard counter to these guys to defend your superheavies is having 10 command terminators with thunder hammers, otherwise you're gonna charge in a bunch of guys who will get slaughtered but buy your superheavy time and clog up the termies. Then you're wasting a unit tarpitting terminators. Better hope the only unit available for this isn't a Line unit, because then I'm grabbing the objectives while you focus down my terminators

>>96317446
I'm not saying they should get them because of cultural stuff, I'm saying they should get them because the whole 'burn the false idols' wasn't just an Ashen Circle thing, Ashen Circle were just the ones who were good at it and dedicated to it full time.

And also I want to build Ashen Circle bikers to ride with my Chaplain

>>96317404
Tartaros will make that charge almost 60% of the time anon, 2d6 drop lowest is fairly consistent

>>96317416
>>96317425
>>96317453
This still costs 520 points to do and doesn't seem particularly points efficient for the middling effectiveness you're describing. But it is pretty funny, I'll grant you that.

>>96317462
And if they're cataphractii, you need to position them carefully/set it up so that they can successfully make that charge, because they're slower. And most people have ten cataphractii in mind for this, not tartaros

>>96317453
I tarpit your unit with one of the several 100 point Rifle Sections I took to screen my actually valuable units.

Your move anon.

>>96317458
Fair enough anon, I would rather they not be sarge weapons personally but you're not wrong.

Honestly I just want the Word Bearers to have flavour outside of oops all demons. I like my Possessed and evil Sorcerers but theres room in the subfacrion for other things too.

>>96317335
You would think if either of them could get in one good punch with their weight behind it, they would just kill the other ham planet

>>96317476
Cataphractii honestly aren't super good at getting into melee. If youre not parking your transport INSIDE your enemy they'll struggle to get stuck in.

Tater tots are pretty fast, you could probably deploy them on foot in naked 5 man squads and do decent work with them.

>>96315009
Thank you, really.
I didn't know how if people would like them with the odd colour choice but I guess Mechanicum can get away with it a bit.

>>96317493
I PLAY POT OF GREED

>>96317366
you lost the game on turn 1 by being a moron, which is the usual for people thinking they're a troll

>>96317513
Stupid AoD boxed set and the stupid cataphractii terminators...bleh

>>96317496
Honestly if they just made an Ashen Circle Biker/Mortalis variant (and let Chaplains join them again) I wouldn't be as mad. I was hoping we'd get something like that with Exemplary Battles given everyone and their mother was getting Destroyer variants but no we got 'Apothecaries but Daemons'. GW needs to lean more into the fact the WB are the closest to being 'Chaos Imperium' and that they are somehow selling Lorgar's word to the untold masses (the whole Galadriel bit of "Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn" comes to mind).

Then again I am also someone who made my Chaplain a filthy loyalist because I liked the idea of a character who's response to Monarchia was "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity' and took it as a test he passed while his Legion and Primarch failed, so feel free to disregard me

>>96317532
I honestly would barely use the cataphractii terminators, they're only really useful for deathstar use or as Siege Tyrants/Fulmentarii. Quite good if you have a primarch for them to accompany and bodyguard, but otherwise...yeah, bleh. Tartaros are more useful in a majority of situations

>>96317493
>I tarpit your unit with one of the several 100 point Rifle Sections I took to screen my actually valuable units.
Termies aren't going to be tarpitted by 10 GEQs retard. And this is why allying in Solar Auxilia should never have become a thing in 30k

>>96317517
NTA but they remind me of bugs (well, more than those automata usually do). I like them as well

>>96317341
Keep in mind that you'll have to place them inside of a spartan to really make them work for you, that's a 920 deathstar designed to rip open tanks and not much else. I mean, they can kill terminators well IF those other terminators don't have thunder hammers. There are more points efficient ways to kill tanks, and better ways to kill terminators.

But yes, it is funny to leeroy jenkins a fully loaded spartan towards a vehicle and chainfist it to death

>>96317581
>What is Deep Strike

>>96317587
You can't charge out of deep strike anymore, so I don't see the point in deep striking against vehicles that are much faster this edition unless you have combi meltas.

How the fuck do you kill termies???

>>96317559
20, 20 Auxilia with vexilia and Vox interlock is 100 points.

10 aux are 50, 4ppm for the other 10, vov and Vex are 5 points each.

I give all my lasrifle sargents melta bombs so MY aux are 110 per 20 and you can buy enough upgrades to push them all the way to 165 per 20 but naked they're extremely cheap.

>>96317663
You don't, you pin them so they can't move and then laugh.

>>96317663
You don't, you tarpit them

>>96317667
Original anon here, I actually give all mine bayonets and blast chargers for the fluff, but I was making a point that you can use them as cheap screens to stop his exact tactic

>>96317559
Turn 1 is the worst time to DS because your opponent has their entire army to screen. They don't charge on their turn they just stand in front of you so your melee unit can't get closer in the movement phase. Spread out coherency to create a no go zone. Against. Solar aux you'll never be in melee with their super heavies. It's just not going to happen. Marines maybe later on, but it's hard to say because it won't be behind it. So that means you have marine shooting, including the super heavy, to survive through.

>>96317681
>Original anon here, I actually give all mine bayonets and blast chargers for the fluff, but I was making a point that you can use them as cheap screens to stop his exact tactic
Blast chargers are a tragedy in current year, i want my S6 back, rending shred is worthless because why in gods name are you shooting Vets or terminators with Blast chargers wtf are you doing.

>>96317726
>because why in gods name are you shooting Vets or terminators with Blast chargers wtf are you doing.
Because they Deep Striked to try and chainfist your Super Heavy, obviously

>>96317741
>not shooting your medusas at the chainfist terminators.
>not scattering a template onto one of your own rifle sections and gibbing 8 auxilia.

Lascutters or Graviton Guns for Breachers?

>>96317778
Lascutters
You can put a combi grav on the Sgt if you want the pinning

>>96317726
S4 Rending 6+ Shred 6+ blast chargers actually so more damage than the S6 versions vs vets and Terminators. The actual loss is no longer being able to hurt AV 11 or 12.

Veteran Breacher squad - 280

215 – 10 men
15 pts for Power Fist on Sarge
15 pts on normal dude
30 pts 3x power mauls
5 Chain axes
20 or 40 pts on Lascutters?

>>96317826
I've done the options on this wrong - if I take the lascutters, it reduces the amount of Chainaxes I can take. It also becomes 300 if I take the 4 Lascutters.

>>96317809
>You can put a combi grav on the Sgt if you want the pinning
Remember that makes it one shot

>>96317826
40. Lascutters are brutal in melee

>>96317871
I don't think you are gonna have that many chances to shoot it
A havoc launcher on their rhino is a better option either way

Why are Veletaris Sentinels Support and not Recon?

>>96317663
Thunder hammer raptors. Corvidae autocannons. Charonites.

>>96317663
Double Heavy disintegrator saturnines
It also kills you so it's double efficient at killing terminators

>>96317811
They do less damage against anything with 1 wound but in return they do more damage to things with 2 wounds.

Thing is when I want to kill 2 wound models I use a tank not an auxilia lasrifle.

>>96316897
>Nobody actually prooferead the Legends PDF
Is that why WE have to pay 10pts for a power weapons and then 10pts to replace it with a Caedere? When mostly I could take anything else?

>>96313990 (OP)
>TQ

I have a box of Assaults and some bits to make them Vets. I think I want to do 5 THs (and shields!) and 5 twin LCs now though, so I need more bits.

>>96316897
But anon, they've never proofread the Legends PDF before

>>96317919
Because they don't do recon, they're fire support platforms that carry Calivers or heavy flamers and follow Veletaris in buildings

They might be the only good caliver platform in the game actually. Imagine spending 18 points on a TSS marine with a Caliver when you could strap one on a fucking sentinel instead for 20.

The Hermes does more damage of course but the gulf in durability between SAV3+ and SAV4+ is immense.

>>96317967
WS glaives have the same double equipment tax, its extremely retarded

Anything I can do with 6 left over marines for a generic unit?

>>96318040
Rotor TSS for five, convert the 6th into an Optae.

>>96317873
So maybe I'll drop the PF on the mook, have the Sarge with PF, 4 Lascutters, 3 Mauls and 2 Chainaxes to round it out. Sound alright or am I gonna get ganked before the PF and Lascutters hit? Am I better off maybe with 2 Lascutters and a few more Mauls to mulch tacticals?

>>96318020
The Hermes Veletaris does more damage than the Hermes light actually.

Hermes light is BS3 with a multilaser, the Hermes Veletaris is BS4 with a Caliver.

With 2 full squads Hermes lights average 9 hits, Veletaris Calivers average 8, Both S6 and AP irrelevant. Shooting tac marines the Light and Veletaris both average 3 unsaved wounds.

Thing is the Veletaris guns have deflagrate so those 3 wounds generate another 3 autohits at AP0 which causes another unsaved wound into 3+ saves.

If you give the Hermes its grenade launcher and shoot T5 W2 models it outperforms the Caliver but its 21 points now instead of 16 and it still dies to heavy bolters.

>>96317945
>thunder hammers raptors
>get focus fired to death

LOL GET RAPED.

>>96318046
I've got 8 rotors already

>>96318034
10p vs 20p is fucking huge when the weapon is marginal to begin with. How are your glaives? I would rock a bunch of meteor hammer Chars if they weren't more expensive than THs or twin LCs. Especially regarding LCs, they are 10pts for Sgts and have abilities that the Twin Falax completely lacks. "Thanks, James"

In other news I've finally hashed together an All-Coomers List I like. Just a little WAAC for exploiting Prime slots:

Traitor World Eaters
Primary Detachment:
* Praetor (Jump Pack, Paragon Blade, Combi-Grav) w/Apex Detachment
* Master of Descent (Thunder Hammer) Prime: Paragon of Battle, with Detachment
* Centurion: Twins LCs with 2 Detachments
* 20×Despoilers (Thunder Hammer, 4×Power Lance, 15 Chain axe, Vexilla) Prime: Interdiction Cadre
* 10×Despoilers (Twin Lightning Claws, 2×Power Lance, 7×Chain axe, Vexilla)
* 10×Despoilers (Twin Lightning Claws, 2×Power Lance, 7×Chain axe, Vexilla)
* 10×Despoilers (Twin Lightning Claws, 2×Power Lance, 7×Chain axe, Vexilla)
Apex: Officer Cadre:
* Master of Descent (Thunder Hammer) Prime: Paragon of Battle
Aux: Armoured Fist: 3×Land Raider Carriers
Aux: Shock Assault: 6 Cataphractii (6 Power Fists, 1 Plasma Blaster)
Aux: Planetfall Speartip:
* 10 Vet Assaults (5×Thunder hammer+Combat shield, 5×Twin Lightning Claws) Prime: Master Sgt
Aux: Planetfall Speartip:
* 10 Vet Assaults (5×Thunder hammer+Combat shield, 5×Twin Lightning Claws) Prime: Master Sgt
=3000pts

Depending on the opponents list, the Terminators can be in a LR or just anchor the center, and I also don't particularly need to Deep Strike anything, depending on terrain. (I have the Termies already, so they're part of the list. Do need the land raiders tho)

Is marching up cataphractii up the board with two reaper autocannons and 8 combi bolters a good idea? Just giving them power axes to keep points costs low.

>>96318061
What are you planing to do with them?
The mauls are kinda unnecessary. They don't work against the kind of thing you want to kill with a las cutter or a fist. Might as well keep those guys cheap and just use them as ablative wounds.

>>96318103
>take all comers list
>zero shooting
>zero anti-tank
>just a bunch of (presumably deep striking) melee elites
Yup, its a WE list alright.

>>96317945
Charonites only kill WS4 terminators, best they can do against WS5 is stall for a round.

Killing terminator retinue squads as SA is still a task best accomplished at range.

>>96318128
Depends on what the rest of your force is doing in the meantime. I just posted my list above you with 6 Catas as a backline which will get lost in the rest of a very active force.

>>96318128
Cataphractii NEED transports to do anything, 1" set up, 6" move and no rush is devastating to footslogging.

Tartaros can walk up the board if they want to but if you have the slots I'd recommend 2 units of 5 over 1 unit of 10, I also prefer Heavy flamers over reapers but that is a matter of taste.

>>96318146
I gotta be me~

>>96318128
Tartaros would probably be better since cata move less and don't get a step up move that's going to be another turn before you can charge anything
Plasma blaster is probably also better for shooting at MEQs which is the better target for combibolters
Power maul is probably better, might as well wound on 2s.
It's not a horrible idea I think. Normal termies without fancy weapons are pretty cheap and they still run over MEQs. Combibolters are also a stupid amount of shots this edition, specially with implacable advance.

>>96318128
Give them plasma blaster and if you have a command vox they might even be useful in the game

>>96318156
Here's the hypothetical list:
Crusade Primary Detachment:
Centurion with Chainglaive and Trophies of Fear and Paragon of Battle
Siege Breaker

20 Tacticals with nuncio vox in a Spartan (Logistical Benefit)
10 Tacticals with nuncio vox in a rhino

Terror Assault Detachment
10 man Terror Squad with chainglaives in a Rhino and logistical benefit (for the contemptor)
Contemptor with Gravis melta cannon, power fist, heavy flamer and havoc launcher
2 10 man raptor squads, one with all chainglaives, one with all hammers

Heavy Assault Detachment
7 Cataphractii Terminators with Power axes and combi bolters, 2 with reaper autocannons and power axes, sergeant with chainfist and combi bolter


Storm Battery Detachment
4 Laser Rapiers
2 Quad Mortar Rapiers with Phosphex

Total: 3000 points

>>96318200
Yea, a naked terminator is 30pts and has the firepower of 20pts worth of tactical marines (essentially). Hes also a lot more durable and comes with a power weapon.

>>96318103
The WS glaves are good compared to power weapons, but not in the same league as 20 point melee weapons like pfists or thammers. Not to mention you can't even equip them on sergeants, so they're competing for things categorically better and cheaper. As it stands they're overpriced and hard to equip, so nobody is gonna use them. Lotta dumb lack of flavor this edition.

>>96318207
I think youre better off running either tartaros or atramentar. Atramentar in particular have the advantage of being able to deep strike. Also consider taking some combi-gravs, pinning really helps night lords.

>>96318224
Problem: I will then have 10 cataphractii terminators sitting around in my collection. Already got them from the AoD box

>>96318207
Not a ton of mobility is the first thing I wonder about; although if you have 6 squads walking up, the termies will get their shooting in. I have precisely 7 painted termies myself, but I wonder if you don't want them in the Spartan with a character?

I leave it to others comments re: Reaper vs Plasma.

>>96318237
>10 cataphractii terminators
Say they count as Tarts

>>96318145
I guess I actually probably want the opposite - the plan was to slap about basic squads and maybe vets, so they probably want a rethink. The lascutter just looks so devastating for it's points, but I guess I didn't actually consider that I might not get to use it against the right targets. Maybe I'll keep 1 in for Dreads or something.

>>96318237
Solution: Atramentar prime benefit them somehow. Lets them deep-strike in and gives them a very spicy impact(I),

People meme on deep-strike for melee, and they have a bit of a point, but its probably better than the alternative. DS them in turn 2, get a good charge off turn 3. As opposed to walking up the board and not getting where you need to go in that time.

Although maybe im underestimating the dakka.

>>96318214
>Lotta dumb lack of flavor this edition

>WE can replace ChSw with ChAx, FOR FREE, Guy!
>So can 90% of everything else
>Sidegrade option

I feel you, Steppe-brother

>>96318257
I have no idea how to give them that prime benefit without somehow adding a praetor.

>>96318246
sounds kinda lame ngl

>>96318214
Thats just the eternal issue with pricing tiers/options. You have power weapons as the "lower" tier, and then thunder hammers, fists and claws as the "upper tier". So where do weapons that are better than power weapons but worse than hammers and twin claws go? 5:10:15 could work, but then you have problems with weapons like chainswords/axes and charnabal weapons which now have no niche.

The best solution is probably to limit who gets access to the highest tier, but then you have the 2e problem of "well these units have access to the best weapons so theyre just better"

>>96318266
If you could take chainaxes on something for free then you probably should, unless you're fighting lightning claws they're either as good as or better than chainswords.

>>96318325
Also, if I had a gun put to my head and was told to fix the problem? I would just make the legion power weapons (scythes, glaives, chainglaives, frost weapons(?) etc) a universal power weapon upgrade. Theyre obviously not going to be par with the highest tier of weapons and thats fine, so I would just make them free (or cheap) and a thing you can universally take so they can actually see play in the areas where they might be valuable (low level troop combat).

Finally getting some time to work on my Iron Hands today. Which should I build, dudes?
>Mk III Tacticals
>Mk VI Volkite Support
>Mk VI Flamer Support
>Grav Rapiers

>>96318325
Price power weapon subtypes individually. Make power swords and spears 5 points, axes and mauls 10 points.

Make Charnabal weapons a free upgrade like chainaxes. Make chain weapons give +1 attack and remove shred from them.

>>96318360
Volkite support sounds fun, you should do that.

I'm making Auxilia infantry today, should I do my lasrifles or more Storm axe Veletaris?

>>96318360
>Mk III Despoilers
>Mk VI Despoilers
>Mk VI Despoilers
>Bolter Rapiers
Play World Eaters instead, this is a lot more fun.

>>96318377
>not keeping the Gravitons for pinning so the enemy can't run away from your despoilers.

>>96318325
Steps of 5 points is just lazy ass shit. GW also doesn't know how to balance. Feast your eyes on the Dark Sons of Death where they think you're gonna pay 15ppm to give a 1W WS4 guy with a single D1 AP2 on the charge.

>>96318400
Nobody said they were smart enough to do that.

>>96318376
I’ve been eyeballing the volkite guys for a minute. I’m biased, but I say you make more axemen. Love those models.
>>96318377
I’ll admit it does sound fun to play the attack dog legion, but I don’t have enough chainblades for that lol.

>>96318425
Kharn would be smart enough. Be the world eater Kharn remembers you used to be.

>>96318207
bumping is this list good or shit

Also does it look boring

>>96318098
Sounds like you now have 10 and an auger squad.

Might GM a horus heresy-based game soon and I'm wondering, what are some examples of non-military tech that was relatively common during the great crusade that was lost by the time of 40k? I know solar auxilia vets had access to anti-aging technology as a reward for their service and that stuff is mostly for high ranked officials and nobles by 40k so I guess that got less common. I'd ask in the RPG thread but that place is pretty much dead these days.

>intrigued by World Eaters, but no chainaxes in my bitz box
>peruse a few sites out of curiosity
>literally thousands of places to get chainaxes
Oh no

>>96318519
>all the chainaxes are expensive as fuck

womp womp

>>96318529
$13 for 10 isn’t great, but it’s certainly not undoable.

>>96318529
If you have a friend with a printer, they don't have to be.

>>96318512
>auger squad
I can't find that in the Liber/Legacy

>>96318518
There's civilian land speeders and otherwise anti grav vehicles I know

>>96316611
Sabre missiles gave always sucked, and idk why they aren't full Hunter Killers.
But I was rather talking about the Neutron blaster (it sucks too). Oh, and they are fast enough that they can get 40 pts of multi Meltas in Melta range! (Multi Meltas suck too)

>>96318548
It's in the journal. Four guys with bolters that can give you a free reaction.

>>96316189
>the only thing I actually like of it is non-Assault transports allowing Disordered charges
This. Everything else fucking sucks

>>96318548
Its in the journal. Its basically four 2w marines for 80pts as part of a retinue squad. They can take an int test to reduce the cost of a reaction by someone within 18" by one once per turn.

>>96318554
Individually, yes. Although last edition, it was kind of fun to take a full squadron and shove 12 of them down a Spartan's throat with some bonus autocannon shots. In the current edition, I'd say that they'd be too good at Str 9/D3.

>>96316897
Actually it has been so since 2.0, where More Deythan could swap their shotguns for snipers for +5 pts, but Effrit had to pay +10 to swap their improved shotguns for snipers too. It's inherited favoritism
>people storming the Nottingham HQ and dragged them out to be disembowls and strung up on the lightposts
Oof if only...

>>96318568
Found it. Thanks anon. They just aren't in the table of contents for some reason.

>>96318539
Cheapest I saw was $31. Where the hell are you finding $13?

God when the fuck will mk2 assault squads come out I want my assault marines

>>96317186
Yo, dawg, I heard you like knee pads with your single-piece greaves.

Is taking laser rapiers, tacticals, a spartan etc boring???

>>96318627
yes anon, taking tactical marines is boring and you shouldnt do it.

>>96318618
NTA but I bought 10 chain axes, in left or right hand, for 14 bucks on Etsy just the other day, where tf are you looking?

>>96318576
But they'd affect av14 (the only vehicle type there is) on a 1/3. On Av13 it woul do 4 hp. Hmmm you're right. This would make it good and we shouldn't have that xD

>>96318618
etsy, they have a lot of options for quite cheap.

>>96318638
Oh, I'm retarded, it's $22 for ten chainaxes and bolt pistols.

>>96318637
It's just that I don't know what to do with the dumbass useless fucking cataphractii terminators t

>>96318646
They're decent, they just have to pick other targets, get attacks on a side AV, etc. If AV14's the only thing there is, why even worry about the only vehicle that can even take the damned things?

>>96318740
AV14 isnt the only thing that exists though.

>>96318676
Look, if youre desperate to use them just take 10 in a sparta, stick a havoc launcher on top or whatever, give one a combi-grav, and enjoy your WS+1 terminators. Maybe facemash the other guys big terminator deathstar. NL are very good at it this edition.

>trying to dryfit the tiny ass camera on the araknae
>use tweezers so it's less likely to go flying
>grip too hard and it goes flying toward and behind me into the immaterium

Just pulled the trigger on $100 of bits for a stupid fucking wargame, fuck fuck fuuuck

Free shipping tho

I think the idea behind the sabres is that you're getting back or sideshots, where it'll be AV12 or less, not punching through the front

>>96318784
see
>>96318646

>>96318795
Its fucking addictive buying bits "ooh this torso seems nice! how about this weapon! this arm looks cool!"
Each individual bit is affordable and suddenly its a whole lot.

>>96318793
nta but troonhammer said it's best to footslog Cataphractii

idk if they're retarded or if this is some sort of underrated big brain move

>>96318831
>"Cataphractii make a great unit for deploying on foot. They aren’t that expensive, they’re extremely durable and they fire a lot of shots. They have Vanguard 3, which they may well score by shooting enemies off objectives. You can buy them better melee weapons but I think I might leave them mostly with Power Axes or Mauls to keep their cost down. A Chainfist for the A3 Sergeant might be useful."

>shooting enemies off objectives
>with fucking combi bolters and reaper autocannons

what.

>>96318863
I mean, yea, that definetly works now. A combi bolter fires four bolter shots at all times.

>>96318831
A cheap 5 man unit seems like something you can definetly footslog. Maybe even take two, put them on the flanks. Theyre basically immune to small arms fire, durable enough to be annoying to shoot with AT guns and really need specialized melee elites to crack, but are cheap enough to not be an appetizing target for them. I could see it.

Give it a shot, if it doesent work, try something else.

>>96318896
>Give it a shot, if it doesent work, try something else

Yeah, if it doesn't work, you just wasted your time and money equipping cataphractii terminators with power axes/mauls

>>96318090
The Hermes light really takes a life on its own when paired with it´s command section; firestorm, implacable advance, outflank and the grenade launcher is just a great combination to annoy the opponent and with a huge treat range. The Hermes Veletaris is great on the solar cohort, but otherwise I think we will get more bang from the light version.

>>96318863
lol goonhammer always has the best brainlet takes. the shitty edition makes sense when you realize they playtested it

>>96318917
>Yeah, if it doesn't work, you just wasted your time and money equipping cataphractii terminators with power axes/mauls
Just use what cataphrachtii you have and are desperate to get use out of einstein.

>>96318863
Okay, so i did the math.

Ten cataphractii terminators with combi bolters, as the article suggests for shooting line troops off objectives, will deal an average of...drumroll please...

FOUR WOUNDS to MEQs. FOUR FUCKING WOUNDS. Is goonhammer retarded?

>>96318960
>Is goonhammer retarded?
They're as casual as any place I've ever seen: "dis unit have gun, shoot wif unit! So good!"

>>96318960
>Is goonhammer retarded
Yes

>>96318960
Yes. Read the 2.0 articles too, especially the early ones.

>>96318896
Cataphractii on foot? It would be funny if it wasn't SAD! Moving at 6" per turn and unable to run, it will take them THE ENTIRE GAME (4 turns) to cross No Man's Land LMAO. Then, if lucky, can charge someone further 7" away.
A land raider is mandatory, anon

/hhg/, I need your help.
One of my buddies is just getting started with HH and wanted my help to build a list so we went over pretty much every model available for his chosen faction (imperial fists - he's a combat engineer so tracks) and I've come up with the following list. The problem is that I've very little experience with IF so I'd love some feedback on this.

Imperial Fist - 3000 pts

HQ:
Praetor in cataphractii armor
Siege breaker
Forge Lord
Champion (Paragon of battle)

TROOPS:
2*10 tacs
1*10 breachers with two lascutters and a rhino (modeled as an Atlas recovery vehicle)
Logistical benefit: land raider

Aux det 1: veteran cadre
1*5 Huscarl terminators
Spartan

Aux det 2: armored support
2*Vindicators

Aux det 3: shock assault
1*10 phalanx warders (to go in the land Raider)
Lord of War Det:
Glaive

>>96318863
The goons don't play HH, they just read the books and then extrapolate game states based off of their experience playing 40k.

Etsy.com/listing/1819952384/killinator-9000-tank-for-war-games

Does this look good enough? All the other LRs look shitty/40k

>>96319040
>siege breaker but no rapiers
>5 huscarls in a spartan instead of 5 huscarls in the LR and dumping a 20-man blob of breachers/wardens via spartan
>forge lord but no thalaxii

>>96318740
>If AV14's the only thing there is, why even worry about the only vehicle that can even take the damned things?
Because I take three land Raiders, and you have to stop every one. Thus, the enemy can also do that, and I also have to stop every single one

>>96318920
Undoubtedly. 2 squads of grenade hermes and a Hermes command squad are a surprising threat at close range.

How are you gonna equip the Aethon? The two builds I've been considering are flamer + rocket pod for status and lascannon + hunter killer missile array for anti tank.

I'd consider running them naked but there are already so many ways of bringing multilasers that I dont think suppression will ever ve a problem.

>>96318800
>back or sideshots
All the more reasons to take Land Raiders, king of vehicles. So difficult to destroy, half the anons here would sooner ignore them and just pretend they don't exist whilst getting pounded by half a dozen lascannons

HHG GIVE ME A THEMATIC NIGHT LORDS LIST PLEASE I BEG OF YOU

>>96319049
Isn't that the 40k raider? Also look at the result, I'd just get a recast at that point.

>>96319130
Using what as a base? You've got to be more specific than that.

>>96319093
>and you have to stop every one
Why? Land raiders are borderline harmless. "oooh it fires 4 d1 lascannons per turn for only 300pts!"

Sure, you COULD invest in a kratos or some vindicators or rapiers and wreck them. But you can also just ignore them and leave your opponent with a dead 1000pts.

>>96318960
Yes. They don't even read the rules completely. They are barely good at 40k 10th only becuase it's been our for years and even then they just netlist.

>>96319169
The AoD box....please...brothers...my spirit has faded...

>>96319073
Like I said, he's picking based on models and im just trying to organize that into an army. Siege breaker I assume would going the breachers in the land raider, ForgeLord and champion with the praetor and huscarls in the Spartan (ForgeLord to keep the Spartan and glaive running because of his 2x per turn - also that's his self insert)

>>96319155
>the result
Not sure what you mean: is your pic a recast? I can see the etsy one looks 'different' but I'm not sure exactly how.

Also, I am not aware of any remastered. How do I even start looking without getting ripped off?

what have you been up to anons ?
i haven't been able to paint more saturnine, work is killing me

>>96319185
Is it going to move all game long? I think it's going to move a couple turns at most, and then it's going to be like a heavy support squad that is inmune to anything smaller than a missile launcher. Basically immune to missile launchers too, actually

>>96319237
What the etsy page is showing in the pics is a render of the 3d model which then gets printed out on a fdm 3d printing machine. The final results are in the reviews, the pic I posted is from one of them.
>recasts
Most recasters don't carry 30k land raiders anymore because they have plastic boxes which in most cases are both cheaper and less of an headache compared to heating resin back into shape.
>How do I even start looking without getting ripped off?
The short answer is that the kind of casters still carrying them aren't interested in trading with new clients so you don't. I wrote that post assuming you knew some.

>>96318576
The Solar Auxilia get Hunter killers on every vehicle but the Arvus. Every russ can take one, every malcador can take one, the Dracosan can take 2 and the fucking Aethon can take 4.

>>96319359
I miss when HKs had unlimited range.

>Logistical benefits taken for Leviathal detachments cannot be used for bringing Lerneans, because the detachment is cursed with Elite slots van only be filled with seekers and headhunters
Bro ...

>>96319392
Oh no, I guesd you'll just have to run more of the best unit in the game

>>96319185
Land raiders are only gonna be moving turn 1 to unload their cargo. After that they basically become 4 lascannons taped to an AV14 brick.

>>96319341
Thanks. Guess I'm paying retail on Ebay.

I put this Black shield centurion together as a quick break, not sure if i want to get back into 30k but i might make a small blaclshield force

>>96319403
>. After that they basically become 4 lascannons taped to an AV14 brick.
Thats still basically sweet fuck all coming from a 300pts brick. And I suspect theyre going to move more than 10" a game. The main value of the land raider is also its ability to move shit, if its already served that purpose theres even less reason to bother killing it.

>>96319295
If it sits still, a land raider has the damage output of 4 lascannon HSS. Even when stationary its not a particularly impressive damage output. Lascannons are always useful and can provide very nice flexibility and shit, but its simply not the sort of threat that you really need to deal with or suffer. It kills around a terminator per turn and around two tactical marines. If you went wide at the cost of anti-tank, its simply not going to have the sort of damage profile youre super worried about.

The thing its best at is putting damage onto medium/light vehicles and sniping expensive VEQ (command squads, jetbikes, bikes), and also maybe rapier teams. But those are absolutely niche targets/things which other units can and will deal with better.


You guys remember that NL player from last thread who had his local group whining because he just brings 80 power armored dudes and wins because his opponenrs either run AV14 or really focus on being able to kill AV14? Thats a very likely situation coming from this mindset.

>>96319238
Working on the a predator and two 5 man hss rn.

>>96319586
Forgot pic lol

Legion trait aside, how are WB looking this edition? Kor Phaeron seems pretty good, Ashen circle have scary volley fire, and Argel Tal is a flying blender. Not to mention the Mhara Gal which kept WS5. Gal Vorbak seem a tad overcosted for just being despoilers +

What units are the best at scoring, leaving aside the question of whether they actually will score?

You can get Line (2) on troops fairly easily, SA have it from lasrifle tercios + command squad buff and Astartes just get it out of the can. I'm not sure where people are supposedly getting generic Line 3 from, I'm probably missing an option.

Maloghurst can add +1 Line/Vanguard to a unit, which I think gets you the best possible Vanguard squad from Justaerin (Van 4) and his buff, with most armies having easy access to Vanguard 2/3 and only Justaerin and Night Raptors picking up Vanguard 4.

Mechanicum have Comptroller instead of Line, which caps out at 2 and is rather more annoying to arrange. I'm not sure it works alongside Vanguard if they're on the same squad, though.

>>96319238
Trying to get back into the swing with my mechanicum, working on my thanatars

>>96319610
GVB are kinda sad this edition.

WB in general arent looking super exciting, I dont think theyre particularly bad, but theres nothing very interesting to get your dick hard you know? The legion trait isnt even that bad imo, a lot of margins are very close now due to kill based CR, its just boring.

The reaction is still good, the gambit is pretty decent, tainted weapons are... better than last edition (still not great, maybe worth it on a sgt?). Warpfire plasma is just overcosted for what it does.

>>96319610

Mediocre, albeit not useless legion trait, Gal Vorbak seem basically useless, but I'm liking the Mhara Gal and Ashen Circle, even if the Circle are very squishy for their price and are probably going to soak up that excellent 1/battle reaction that puts all the damage from a shooting attack on one model.

Lorgar seems like a solid B+ tier primarch, he's not that expensive and he has an excellent whacky stick, but his buffs are pretty useless besides handing out the same Prime bonuses to Troops as all Primarchs and Anathemata is currently a very useless psychic discipline compared to the core ones, so both Word Bearers uniques and Burning Lore are burning a good number of points on a mediocre weapon and Fear (1). Really hoping the demons book has good stuff for us there.

It's not awful, but there's not a lot that has juice there besides the WS5 dread and Zardu mind-controlling people. I'm unsure that any of the leadership-buffing stuff or the incredibly shitty Apex detachment is going to end up relevant when any Traitor Primarch can hand out mass True Believers to his troops anyway and swarm the board with Troops that can't take any kind of status. 60 Malefic tacs seem like they'll do the ground-holding thing better than any marginal Legion buff to combat resolution.

>>96319540
>You guys remember that NL player from last thread who had his local group whining because he just brings 80 power armored dudes and wins because his opponenrs either run AV14 or really focus on being able to kill AV14? Thats a very likely situation coming from this mindset.

What do you think about the Dracosan? AV13/13/10 7 HP brick that transports 22 for 140 points base, that more relevant than a land raider or less?

>>96319470
owns

Bro why why whyyyyyy WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH NOTTINGHAM?! How can terranic greatblades have different costs for the cataphractii and tartaros versions of THE SAME UNIT?

>>96319695
Absolutely more relevant, it can even take a flare shield for pseudo AV14 too iirc. And a demolisher cannon.

Dracosans are still tough, but theyre not so expensive they eat into your "useful units" budget and have a damage output much more in line with their cost. A dracosan with a demolisher cannon costs a bit more than a vindicator.

>>96319470
Seems like he's wearing a Mark 1 helmet.

>>96319707
Pawafisto ate the 5 points, small company from my basement, please understand.

>>96319707
I think its a typo.

>>96314452
Paying 50 points for a 3+, 3 A with 5 Str meh weapon?

I don't think we will be seeing much of these on the table.

>>96319402
>more of the best unit in the game
A Praetor? The goal was to not have a big commander unit you could single out. It's an anonymous mass with no one to point at

>>96319619
For the last one, it doesn't, vanguard sets the value from objective scoring to 1, so modifiers like line or comptroller don't do anything - that's why the master or signal strips vanguard before giving you line

>>96319713
They really have to go back to the demolisher eating half the transport bay. Having a reasonably priced Dracosan is nice but irmt should absolutely not be able to LARP as a vindicator spartan hybrid for 200 points lol.

>>96319238
Working on the special weapons for my in progress terror squad. Ill try get some actual painting on my backlog done once im happy with them.

>>96319743
It does seem a bit too good.

>>96319540
>You guys remember that NL player from last thread who had his local group whining because he just brings 80 power armored dudes and wins because his opponenrs either run AV14 or really focus on being able to kill AV14?
I don't remember what he brought for antitank, but I am thinking of bringing Vindicators myself, and those kill infantry too. I really believe his enemies just play wrong, but I can't prove it

>>96319610
>Legion trait aside
Yikes. I can't ask "Legion trait aside, how are the Iron Warriors looking" because someone might be enticed to rape John French

>>96319743
it makes me actually want one

>>96319695
>A Vindicator that carries more people than a Land Raider, for the same cost
What the fuck
>>96319540
>Land Raiders are 300 pts for 4 lascannons
What if they were 240 pts for 6 lascannons? Because that's LR Explorators

>>96319754
>I don't remember what he brought for antitank
A deredeo with the lascannons.

>I really believe his enemies just play wrong, but I can't prove it
Its definetly possible they could be bad. (whether at play or list building), but its not a given imo.

But imagine the following AT complement:
2 laser vindicators
2 squads of 3/4 rapier laser destroyers

Thats like 800pts of AT, its some very good AT imo and will turn tanks into burning wrecks, but its also going to be really pts ineffective at clearing massed marines from an objective. If the remainer of the list is maybe some armor of their own, or elites designed to kill enemy elites, then you can very realistically end up with little left to just kill massed power armor effectively. It also eats into your budget for just having your own power armor bodies to go run onto objectives so even if you DO have the means to kill the enemy you might not have the means to score as well as them when you get the chance.
Based on anons list I suspect no-one there is playing super optimal WAAC lists, but "armies reliant on massed AV14 or answers for said massed AV14 are vulnerable to people who dont care about that" seems fairly intuitive.

>>96319772
>What if they were 240 pts for 6 lascannons? Because that's LR Explorators
Still not exactly a stellar damage output for the cost, but obviously better. Although the explorator pays for that by being a lot worse as a transport.

>>96319760
I'd argue their trait is slightly better than the WB one at least, and their reaction is good as well. Hammer of Olympia is good, graviton crushers are good, Warsmiths are good, Iron Circle are good, and I haven't looked at their legacies stuff yet. They're not THAT bad, even if they have a bad gambit and a lower-tier trait

>>96319798
The IW trait is VERY good. Statuses are both incredibly powerful and rather common. Being able to look at the panic(3) on phospex and go "actually, no" is really strong.

>>96319796
>the explorator pays for that by being a lot worse as a transport.
...by being 2" faster, ignoring Difficult terrain, and being able to Outflank? Cataphractii are losing 1" of setup. Oooh scary

>>96319798
>I haven't looked at their legacies stuff yet
Yeah I can tell

>>96319738

Gotcha, makes sense. Comptroller is a bit fiddly, especially with the Mechanicum being split into six different factions, but they do have good Vanguard stuff to back up the few scoring robot squads.

>>96319808
Yes anon, lack of assault vehicle is a very significant downside for a tank whos job is (largely) getting units into close combat.

>>96319827
Not for most cataphractii. If you're not BA, EC or WE you really don't give a shit about whether or not you have an assault transport, all you lose is volley fire which would make your charge harder and ONE inch of set up movement because >heavy.

For most melee units the Explorator would be a non starter but its probably the cheapest transport you can manage for cataphractii which is all they really care about.

>>96319827
Anon, you lose 1" of set up, and volley firing combi-bolters you don't want to shoot. You lose 1" and gain 2"

>>96319238
I was going to work on my dudes today but now I’m having a debate with myself if whether or not I should change my legion and remodel some of my guys. I have accomplished nothing today.

>>96319900
>change my legion

I could never

>>96319887
You'll lose inches to only being able to disembark from the tanks sides.

>>96319900
I know how you feel anon, the changes and the rules do not make me want to do more DA. At the same time I can't imagine myself doing a second legion. Rebuying the rhinos, tacticals, basic terminators etc is one thing. But I also don't like painting enough to do another 20-40 tacs etc. Who knows maybe the journals will be a real changes for good, and not side grades like w40k codex. Some of the Fantasy journals are/were good.

>>96319908
>>96319931
I’m just considering going from a more shooting-oriented legion to melee.

>>96319960
hey man, if you think you can do it, both financialy and hobby wise, then why not. I can tell you this, from my expiriances in WFB and w40k, as much as it is "cool" to like a faction it is REALLY unfun to play an army you are not happy about. And if you do switch, nothing says, that if those new tartaros would look great in your old legion colours, you can't just paint 5 or 10 in the old army colours.

>>96319931
just get allies. 9 out of 10 times the LA barely even matters on basic troops. They are just there to sit on objectives

>>96320059
See that is the problem. Out of all the other non DA factions, the only one I don't dislike are knights. And my play group has a strickt ban on knight/titans in both HH and w40k. Again this is a me problem. Maybe I will just get a few squads, paint some stuff this edition. Not play much. I always wanted to have something bigger, then a land raider or a predator. Maybe the time has come to buy a venator or spartan.

does anyone have the white dwarf hash? I wanna scour the 400s for earlier HH stuff

>>96319912
Bro just drift lmao

>>96319540
this is true. Landraiders are a trap in 3rd edition. They might be worth their cost if they had the Stable rule like Kratos, without it their guns are a joke.

>>96319610
WB are on the lower half, though they could have a big glowup if GW repeats 2nd and tries to sell $160 bloodthirster kits by making greater daemon summons overpowered as fuck.
Argel Tal is great, S-tier mobility, good offense, good defense, can use superman speed to add 3.5 inches to the threat range in all directions fo gal vorb or to join jetpack praetors or vanvets. Denies overwatch shooting entirely by hopping out of his unit and tagging enemy while unit charges in afterwards.
I like Zardu Layak. Start of every combat stealing a 60p term, smash one of the enemy's terms dead and then they kill their own 60 point termie when they attack. Not bad for a guy with 2+/4++/5+++ and 4W. With a malefic unit and his steals, he utterly hard-counters units like 5 terminators which don't have the output to deal with that. He easily pays for himself if he steals 3 thunderhammer termies each game and possibly tanks for his squad using artificer / 4++ and FNP sometimes. +2 free combat res. Does that effortlessly unless they deathstar hard (which you panic run off board)
Mhara Ghal is fast moving WS5 dread with +1 wound and good stats, okay guns. Being able to ruin a unit with Panic(2) flamer and charge same or 2nd unit then win in melee is great. (And if you panic the unit you charge, they're initiative 1 for your army to beat up)
Gal Vorbs unimpressive by themselves, but still tanky and much faster than cat termies, particularly with Argel adding +3.5" to their speed by flying over them joining them 2" in front of them and adding his 1.5" base width. Argel Tal provides the AP2 damage so they can beat many elite melees over time but may be slightly too pricy overall.
Small unit of ashen circle seems useful for Panic(2)
Lorgar beats over half the primarchs via brutal hammer, never vulkan

>>96320117
>NOOOOOO THE BIG ROBOT FUCKS WITH MY ANTI-MARINE LIST!
What a bunch of fags.

>>96320117
>>96320190
i'd understand if it was a ban on knight-only armies, but a total ban sounds ridiculous.

night lords or world eaters??

>>96320348
NIGHT LORDS

trying to make a fluffy siege list for my falchion
would it be more interesting to have my vet breachers coming in on land raiders or dreadclaws?
NL btw

Neil Wylie interview (HH game writer since HH1):
>WH+ Designing the Horus Heresy
https://gofile.io/d/F5iQsr

>>96320348
NL if you're gonna actually spookify them not just have blue ultramarines.
World Eaters otherwise, as you can just do the white and blue and add blood splotches.

>>96320190
it is what it is. fag or not, the results are more important to me.

>>96320260
well again this is no way a all DA player problem. To be honest all I want is just to play an army of "space" Reiksguard Knights and Wolf Knights on Foot. If I could build an army of just despoilers, breachers and terminators I would. But that sadly does not work. You need range weapons etc.
On top of that the knights of HH, aren't the best faction at melee.

>>96320371
Why?

>>96320386
>bald motherfucker
every time. I see why britain is importing immigrants to breed these baldies out of existence. If I was a british woman I wouldn't want that either. Only upside is he isn't wearing the corporate GW hipster flannel lumberjack outfit.

>>96320386
First thing we did was to think how do we invalidate all the armies people bought 1-3 unit types. Is all I am hearing.
the whole "we wanted people to give option and use more X, Y and Z" sounds find, if they didn't invalidate the armies people already build, with few odd exeptions.
Making tanks fun is great, but if it costs me my army, my HQs it is not something I want.

>>96320418
Dreadnoughts deserved to get their ankles broken anon trust me.

>>96320348
Night lords are imo much more interesting

>>96320392
Not even going to say man either you or like five other guys with identical brains have been asking this exact question give or take two legions for multiple weeks now what the fuck would you even pick with in mind yourself you animal

>>96320469
But which is more fun/interesting on the TT?

>>96320466
Anyone crying that dreadnoughts getting nerfed invalidated their army deserves the rope

When do you guys think NewRecruit will be ready? As in, with the Legacies all added up

>>96320526
One year.

>>96320377
land raiders sound like they make more sense for a force with a falchion

>>96320499
Thats what I mean, night lords. Whether its in 2e or 3e WE have a very simple gameplan given to them by their rules and units, you run at people and whack them over the head with your extra attacks. Your melee units are just straightforward bruisers, your special rules and ractions are there to do combat more and better. NL can still do combat, but they have a much more nuanced and interesting gimmick, trying to leverage your situational legion rule to its fullest while often lacking the straightforward elites of other armies. They also have a nice spread of special units, terror squads are utility oriented, raptors are a glass cannon power armor blender and contekar are a deep strike hybrid terminator.

Essentially, WE can very easily fall into the trap of "generic melee list but with more attacks and chain axes", while NL play a more unique combined arms style if they want to take advantage of their various legion traits.

>>96320534
Terror squads are utility oriented???

>>96319035
>Want to use Cataphractii
>They NEED Land Raiders
>Ackshually Land Raiders are a trap
Man fuck all of y'all. I am not using Tartaros. Flyers look interesting until you realize you have to pass an increasing reserves roll every fucking turn for each

>>96320545
In 2e anyways, yes. Theyre a flexible infiltrator with access to a lot of different weapons. Theyre neither a particularly specialized shooting or melee unit, but instead theyre a generalist toolbox that can do whatever your army needs, whether thats payoff or setup.

>>96319102
I am going for a squad of 3 with the melta lance and hunter killer missile battery. The missiles with work great on rhino chasis, while the lance will help zone out av13/14 and dreads from aggressive movements. My train of thought is to use them as midfield units, that will move up with the rest of the army in the first turn and then have a secondary goal of target saturation with their +2 save. Time will tell if it will work.

>>96320167
>this is true. Landraiders are a trap in 3rd edition.
I disagree. I just think theyre not some "take loads of vindicators to counter this, or else".
Land raiders still do their actual function (transport for melee units) well, they just dont do much beyond that. They have a low damage output for their cost and are not very threatening on their own.

If you need to get some high value melee unit onto an objective/to its target unmolested a land raider will do great. But if you invest a thousand points into three of them? You might be overcommitting imo.

>>96320559
Oh. They're not that in 3e...

>>96320559
I don't understand why terror squads are so expensive in 3e after they removed rules or made them redundant
no infiltrate, no WS/BS advantage, still 1 wound, no, can't take both a melee and shooting weapon, traded preferred enemy for a worse version of hatred but got vanguard 2
all this on a unit that costs more than a veteran tactical squad or a centurion command squad where both have much more customization and the latter can also still just get the fear 1 from trophies
makes no damn sense

>>96320588
It won't, like Perty he only became a DP way after the HH. In fact, he may have been the last one.

>>96320583
No, in 3e theyre more of a self contained melee unit since they can fairly reliably proc the legion trait for themselves on their own. So instead of infiltrating a couple of squads of 5 to rotor cannon people they instead jump out of a rhino. fire a rotor cannon and flamer at people, and then charge them with chainglaives.

Although fear is still very valuable for you, especially since its not just a free thing you get on every sgt with terror assault any more.

>>96320592
For the same reason they were so expensive in 2e, they seem to overvalue the hatred/preferred enemy and their access to special weapons. Also maybe a sort of "troops tax" for getting this functionality on a troops slot unit.

Theyre definely overcosted in both editions, could frankly be 12ppm and be fine, or even 15ppm.

>>96320611
YOU CAN CHARGE AFTER FIRING A ROTOR CANNON???

>>96320628
Yea? Theyre assault in 2e iirc, and in 3e the lack of assault just means you cant volley fire them.

>>96320634
They have heavy in 3e!

>>96320611
I think they were almost worth their salt in 2e bc of how well rotor cannons interacted with the NL trait and preferred enemies
in 3e, there's almost zero reason to take them especially when force org slot doesn't matter and you can take multiple apex detachments or just prime advantage for vets

Do you just use regular super glue for Resin models or is there a recommended brand?

>>96320649
>bc of how well rotor cannons interacted with the NL trai
I disagree, rotor cannons were rather bad in 2e, even with their preferred enemy you werent getting unsaved wounds in very reliably and you just had better tools for getting pinning in (like snipers). In 3e the fact it triggers off wounds rather than unsaved wounds really helps them, and in 3e the payoff is much stronger provided you have a melee unit nearby.

>slots dont matter
I disagree. Sure, you can easily take assault vets (or raptors, which might be quite a bit better for NL) but that access comes at the cost of other slots and detachments. Being able to have a payoff unit as your troops definitely has value to it.

I'm going to replace the power fist on my Contemptor with a different one, do I have to gouge out a hole or can I just slap the bolter/flamer/grav on the arm instead?

>>96320676
any old gel glue imo

>>96320639
You can charge after shooting a lascannon for all you'd like. It's 10E time

>>96320689
Everything depends entirely on what you're trying to make.

>>96320639
>>96320628
Anyone can charge after shooting, and doesn't have to charge who they shot in 3rd.

>>96320588
Lorgar was ascended after HH.
His "transfiguration" was just him but with extra powers. He looked the same as he did.

>>96317214
This shit that chainswords and chainblades are the same is shit and stupid. You literally have the bits for chainlades which have some blade linke piece on top of the sword. Stupid lazy GW

>>96319040
Please help IF anons, I don't want to fuck my buddy over by making him an unplayable list dogshit list

>>96320828
>I hate poorfags! Buy more bits to use your legion specific wargear!!!

>>96320167
I love your Argel Tal tactica. Isn't he supposed to have a Custode spear and a power sword though? Why doesn't his model have them? It's not like he's going to get an updated model since the current one is amazing. Wonder if any third party site makes a good proxy.

>>96318518
Gene editing, first thing Emps did after conquering Terra was trying to fix humans back into what we consider humans.

>>96319238
See >>96314028 & >>96318794

>>96320592
Because Fear 1 is a pretty good rule on a unit that can take both flamers and rotor canons and is probably going to get +1 to hit and to wound against their target

>>96321109
chainglaives already wound on 2s
other units can also take flamers and rotors
those units can also get fear 1 from trophies or have an attached character with trophies

>>96321126
>chainglaives already wound on 2s
3s, theyre S+1

>other units can also take flamers and rotors
Other units that can take flamers and rotors dont do melee well.

>those units can also get fear 1 from trophies
They cant, its character only.

>character attached
Sure, you can stick 100pts of character in there to make them fear(1).

Terror squads are absolutely overcosted relative to their durability, but theyre also one of the few units that can reliably trigger and benefit from the legion trait all on its own.

>>96321126
>chainglaives already wound on 2s
3s, they still benefit. And they are basically a power weapon for 5p so part of their cost is baked into the unit
>other units can also take flamers and rotors
But having both increases the chances of inflicting statuses
>those units can also get fear 1 from trophies or have an attached character with trophies
Trophies are only for command and champions, they are not that common

AAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>96321151
>>96321247
command squads come with champions
you can prime benefit a sergeant into a champion
also mb I thought chainglaives were still S+2 like in previous editions

So I have two Kratos, one will be all lascannons and the melta cannon to hunt vehicles/dreadnoughts. But what should I do with the other one? I dont want to double melta Kratos, so do you guys think the normal cannon or just go full choom?

The normal cannon feels like it just doesnt do anything I really need for such an expensive model, and Choom looks cool but feels weaker, but more fun.

>>96321317
Alas, poor chilliad.

>>96321317
What legion is most likely to pack their dead into cubes for ease of shipping? Gotta be IW, right?

>>96321333
>command squads come with champions
And terror squads are troops, they are way easier to put in your army
>>96321390
IH, I doubt IW even bother retrieving their dead

>take consul
>take legion detachment
>logistical benefit a retinue for the consul
>yeah this list is looking awesome
>no tanks unless I take more HQs

its a good ZM list idea I guess?

>>96321151
terror squads are squishy 1w WS4 with 2 attacks only with entirely useless chainswords, they aren't even in the ballpark of a squad that does melee well. Chainglaives make them shitty WS4 models with 1W and only 2A and a ridiculous 23 ppm which are still essentially harmless vs 2+ armor.
If you equip half of them with flamers and rotor cannon so they can self-status, they fail their charges because the enemy removes the front ranks and all the flamer/rotor models are entirely harmless in melee with not even a basic chainsword.

They have the siege tyrant problem trying to do two entirely different jobs and doing both horribly. You get more bodies, more shots and more and superior attacks by splitting units. Despoilers are 10 points not 23 points. It's not in any world worth it to have 10 spookers with a -1 ld debuff instead of 20 despoilers with twice the defenses and twice the attacks and 4 poweraxe + 1 powerfist instead of having like 6 really shitty melee weapons and 2 flamers and 2 rotors.

The retard idea of running terrors is DOA because characters are already good enough to run in other legions and they replace the entire horrible pointsink of terror squads with a simple +10 point upgrade, while their own points buy their squads better offense/defense/ld/cool and other abilities.

terror also lack line(2) unlike despoilers.

>>96321247
>chainglaives are basically a power weapon
You're batshit delulsional. They're 5 points each because they're on a paper 1w WS4 2 attacks model with no armor protection who dies when anything coughs on it. There's a big difference between a shitty power-sword alternative on a 4 attack model with 2+/4++ vs one on a 1W shitter with 2 attacks that usually just miss. 23 points each for half your paper squad having swords is not a brag. And it's much scarier to have WS5 troops turned into WS6 by the NL passive (3+ to hit enemy and 5+ to hit them) than terrors going to 4+ and 4+s with only 2 attacks and bad armor/wounds.

>>96321333
>also mb I thought chainglaives were still S+2 like in previous editions
They would be better if they were. But alas.

>command squads
Are not the norm, theyre also something generally locked behind an apex detachment.

>>96321410
>Take Retinue with praetor's apex detachment instead
>Or take a centurion as your consul, opening up two aux detachments
>Or take another of the 2-3 almost mandatory consuls to open up the detachment

>>96321415
>You're batshit delulsional.
>Initiative +1S Ap3
>Not a power weapon
Whatever you say

>>96321340
Might as well go full volkite. The canon is not that good and you are not gonna kill more MEQs with it than the cardanelle. And that's the main thing you are going to be shooting at with volkites anyways

>>96321452
Don't ve silly anon, thunder hammers are power weapons, and thunder hammers are the only real melee weapon in the game, therefore only thunder hammer and thunder hammer adjacent weapons can be power weapons :^)

>>96321415
>with entirely useless chainswords
They wound on 2s with chainaxes, hitting on 3s and going first (because they proc the trait).

>Chainglaives make them shitty WS4 models with 1W and only 2A and a ridiculous 23 ppm
So the same cost as despoilers with power weapons. That thing you do and max out on?

>which are still essentially harmless vs 2+ armor.
I am aghast that power weapons are not very good at killing terminators, this is an unexpected revalation.

>If you equip half of them with flamers and rotor cannon so they can self-status
One flamer, two rotors.

>they fail their charges because the enemy removes the front ranks
Oh no! the enemy removed the one~ dude you killed with your shooting. The horror.

>are entirely harmless in melee
Hitting on 3s wounding on 3s 2A is hardly harmless.

>Despoilers are 10 points not 23 points.
Despoilers with power weapons are 20pts, not 10pts.

>It's not in any world worth it to have 10 spookers with a -1 ld debuff instead of 20 despoilers
A terror squad kitted out for combat will very comfortably go through those 20 despoilers. Because they will very reliably apply some variant of status effect onto them which then lets them go first, hitting on 3s killing on 2s, and has them be hit back on 5s.

So you have
15*2/3*5/6+6*2/3*2/3*1/3 = 9 dead despoilers.

11 despoilers going back: (2 power fist + 8 power axe + 12 chainsword attacks)
2*1/3*5/6+8*1/3*2/3+12*1/3*1/2*1/3 = 3 terror squad dead.
Terror squad wins combat by 5 (+1 for despoilers for outnumbering), despoilers test at -6LD and run. The next round of combat is not kinder on the despoilers.

Terror squads ARE overcosted and ARE not the most optimal unit. They however ARE also extremely high payoff into power armor and work as a self contained trait activator and payoff.

>>96321489
They have Breaching and Shred so the are basically thunder hammers unless you suck at rolling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>96321493
basically

>terror squad are overcosted and extremely fragile
>terror squad are also very potent into the proper targets

They are, in role (and durability) very comparable to destroyers (who will actually do very well against them but thats besides the point), a power armor blender that at 23ppm will do very well into massed 3+ armor. Destroyers ARE better than terror troops, they come with jump packs, deal damage in a safer manner and can therefore engage with more dangerous targets and shit. But destroyers are also heavy assault while the terror squad are troops, and destroyers lack the -1LD debuff which NL find very valuable.

Theyre not a great unit. They are however an entirely usable one. Theyre not grey slayers but NOTHING is grey slayers.

Huh, neat way to visualize a list.

>>96321524
Oh that IS very neat.

>>96321340
>The normal cannon feels like it just doesnt do anything I really need for such an expensive model
Shockfire shells are D8 on the kratos

>>96321493
Oh, and for what its worth 10 terror squad with glaives will win combat vs 20 despoilers even without a status effect. It wont be enough to win combat/make up for the wounds difference. but its 8.75 wounds vs 6 wounds. Theyre just fundamentally quite good at fighting WS4 3+ armor.

>>96321524
Now put a command rhino on the HQ slot

>>96321524
Man, I wish all the legion-exclusive Termies weren't manlet sized

>>96321559

>Uses a Ligma Model

>>96321570
The Nip with the original idea thought the same thing.

>>96321415
>than terrors going to 4+ and 4+s with only 2 attacks and bad armor/wounds.
I think the fundamental problem here is that you are expecting them to go fight command squads or kitted out melee vets or terminators. Terror squads wont beat 10 man rampager or dark fury or reaver or whatever units, theyre there to eat WS4 power armor for breakfast, not mash with enemy elites. They should fight despoilers and tacticals, not dawnbreakers and suzerains.

>>96321570
Huh. A full army recreated in Ligma just to fill the FoC?
That could actually be fin to do...
With prints obviously, I ain't touching the deformed GW Ligma models

>>96321667
fresh bread
>>96321667
page 8 evacuation
>>96321667

>>96320167
>Gal Vorbs unimpressive by themselves
True but with the options to have a melta gun and powerfist back they can stand up to more 2+ things. Also with not being heavy and having speed at M8 and Initiative5 allows them to keep routed getting smashed.

>>96321415
Chainglaives are extremely cheap for what they give you, they're not the most outrageously cheap melee weapon profile in the game but paying 5 points for S5 AP3 D1 breaching (6+) Shred (6+) is an absolute steal and you'd be crazy not to take em.

>but they're bad against terminators.
You're playing Night Lords retard, if you ever even think of trying to fight terminator elites in melee you're fucking up on both your gameplay and your theme.

You're the cowardly shithead "do whatever it takes to win" legion. You don't March your retinue to fight his retinue in open combat you blast their transport with Gravcannons so it never moves and laugh at the cataphractii as they spend the whole game trying to waddle into melee on foot.

Terror squads are absolute garbage but them being bad has nothing to do with chainglaives. They're just too expensive for a despoiler statline.

How many despoilers should a world eaters list have? How many tacticals?

>>96320879
It's a solid foundation that gives your buddy a solid body to work with, my only input would be dropping the siege breaker if he isn't going to be fielding rapiors, you could always switch it out with a castellan if you can spare a prime advantage, or an armistos if you can't. Also maybe switching your veterans for a HSS with whatever flavour of big gun you need to round out your dudes.

>>96319470
clean the mold lines but this nigga is based as fuck!!!! He rapes!!!!

>>96321999
Thank you anon, that's a good idea for the castella. I believe he's also a fan of heavy bolter and autocannon squads so one of those could be a fun unit to add.

Is this the only gun with a deflagrate value higher than the original weapon's strength? Hell, the only one that's different from it at all?
I thought it was kind of stupid to add a value to deflagrate because 99% of the time it's just the same strength, are there any other weapons that do this?

>>96321600

There's a load of them on Etsy.

Boys, I know it's retarded, but here me out. You give a centurion a free boarding shield to replace his bolt pistol, then exchange the bolter for a combi bolter for +5 points. Then upgrade both into vigil pattern storm shields for another 15 points and give him a melta bomb. I will call him THE WALL.

>>96314991
White Scars technically
>From Asia
>Known for being savage conquering barbarians
>Mounted warriors

Ok here me out. Line (2) and Tacticals are pretty rad, and cheap. However. If an optimized list or something youre likely to encounter loads up on things that assrape MEQ en masse, wouldn't Breachers be worth it in more or less the same package for a points bump?

Yeah they have one less point of Line, but they also don't just get hard erased by high density AP3. Wouldn't the margins of VP scoring add up more if they spend 1-2 more turns actually on the table/objective?

>>96314991
Alpha Legion
>Younger sibling
>Precision over force
>Faceless men
>Flanderized by poor writers

>>96323253
Yes, basic bitch breachers are surprisingly efficient at defending against D2 weapons
They can only kill one guy per hit, and a 5++ is the same chance of survival as a tartaros since anything that really matters is AP2 or breaching anyway

Heavy is also good on a line unit because it gives +1 cool when resisting a status. Pair it with a corresponding consul and they’ll be that much tougher to get off their point even from range.

>>96323871
>An ultramarines Chaplain with an Arghyrm boarding shield chilling in a breacher squad with CL 11