Thread 96391045

Deep Strike Edition Edition

Previous thread: >>96384369

>Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
How would you fix deeps strike?

Leman Russ? More like, Semen Russ!

Did RG start wearing emo haircuts post-heresy, or were they already doing it back when Corax was around? I'm mad that all the cool RG character models are for 40k, why did they give Corax a dinky pistol?

>>96391045 (OP)
>TQ
I wouldn't. You haven't been able to charge from deep strike for years even when it was way more dangerous, now it's in its safest form and at its best use as a specialized tool but people want to go back to Unga bunga me rush face gambling

>>96391045 (OP)
not sure why 30k designers are so bad at writing rules. 30k is just inferior on deepstriking compared to years of 40k rules. Obviously 1" and charge deepstrike is too good and has exactly zero counterplay since it's too close, hence why deepstrike 9.1" away is fair (as it allows screening and non-guaranteed charges having to roll 9 on 2d6 to charge on the turn they arrive)

And deepstrikers can still charge so they're allowed to do something on turn 2,3,4,5 unlike trash tier 30k rules allowing them to only act on turn 3,4 if ever (50% of the game instead of 80% of the game)

If they fail their charge, then they're not punished any worse than the shitty 30k rules, as next turn they'll move over and likely charge something - but there's a decent chance they arent missing the entire game.

They even got rid of the scatter, which was the one and only "fluffy" component of 30k deepstriking, so now they're both less balanced, less fun AND less flavorful at the same time. What a fucking freakshow.

>>96391068
Coraxs pistols are sick and 40k characters are an emo tech war cry model(which is a cancelled Corax and awful) and an Armored Core but also with an emo cut. Nex is a cancelled Maun , so his armor is oddly ornate, doesn't match his art, with a strato vox backpack that has no rules. They only good RG models are Dark Furies and Mor Deythan.

Posting models, a wave of militia. Another 60 are being basecoated, that will give me 100 militia and 40 grenadiers. Is that enough militia? It feels like it should be but then you see lists were people have 100 marines and it just makes 140 humans seem like chump change.

>>96391116
>Armored Core but also with an emo cut.
Shit, sign me up. Where's the AC?

>>96391184
those are some small chain axes

>>96391106
deep strike being locked to 9" would make it a significantly worse Infiltrate

>>96391045 (OP)
POST MODELS
(Extra chromosome edition)

>>96391197
2.0 has bigger axes, the small axes were a compromise because it was hard to find non-chaos chainaxes with mortal hands. Better solutions have been found.

>>96391236
Forgot the picrel

3.0 deep strikes aren't for melee, they're for surprise anal rape (ranged)

So the Manachean Bulls never turned traitor, right?

>>96391197
its a pretty reasonable sized axe head, unlike 3.0 power axes/rann axes which are anime mega weapons

>>96391106
1e Deepstrike is fine. Just copy paste that.

>>96391184
Do more!

>>96391245
>Volkite
Based

>>96391252
Cthonian Headhunters are the traitors, anon.

>>96391369
Choom or bust

>>96391380
Waow... the Alpha Legionnaire is camouflaging into the turret... truly the legion of trickery

>>96391206
You are retarded. Infiltrate is appearing 9" from enemy before the game starts and not allowed to step a single toe into the enemy's deployment zone region. They're also not allowed to charge anything on turn 1 at all.

Deepstrike is being able to appear 9" from enemy even behind their army inside their deployment zone and in the middle of a game to strike them from behind after their tanks move forward.

They're entirely different effects. Both are useful and different. It's just deepstrike has been artificially gimped to be entirely useless dogshit rather than a sidegrade to infiltrate.

>>96391380
Does anyone know where the choom term comes from? I've seen it in relation to volkite weapons a million times but afaik it's never mentioned in any canon lore. Is it just something the community came up with?

>>96391452
Bolter and chainsword forum that then got canonized in some BL book because BL authors are all faggots who like fans sucking their balls

>>96391184
Beastmen armies give me the big penis.

>>96391471
Hey, /tg/ also got a shout out from ADB in the Night Lords books

>>96391045 (OP)
God, I hat that I've seen the picture and thought: "Uuuuh, Gold Ship"

>>96391498
Got an excerpt? ADB seems like the type to get real mad at /tg/

>>96391515
The preface/dedication of the 2nd book. Keep in mind this was way before he outed himself as a cuck

Which marines pair up best with Solar Aux? I'm gonna guess Ultramarines or something

>>96391604
rules-wise or lore-wise?

>>96391636
Both.

What the fuck do I paint my Auxllia???? I thought going for some variation of silver armor/black suit would be good but it looks like every other Aux player has chosen that. Maybe Cthonian Headhunters with blue instead of red?

>>96391646
Well, SoH have their special overseer for giving SA troops higher mental stats, but other than that I thnk they're pretty much all the same. Maybe IH for Iron Fathers to fix up your tanks? There's probably cheaper sources of battlesmith in the SA list

>>96391667
Theta-Garmon Deathless, you know it to be true

>>96391694
Attempted and stripped already but I'm painting up a few schemes with test minis so may give it another shot

>stalking facebook page of LGS for HH shit
>this one guy posts about HH constantly. Like, pictures of the games and everything. His name is John.
>I stalk his photos in the group to see what's played
>newest picture in group is of a new guy at a learning game
>he's buying a liber hereticus book
>the scale appears to have tipped

Welp, it appears I may go loyalist.

>>96391723
Anon you might need to be institutionalized

>>96391734
Why?

>>96391736
Why are you stalking random people online instead of just picking a legion you find cool?

>>96391184
>BEASTS BEASTS BEASTS
Use the B slur to frenzy them up before battle

>>96391241
where did you get small axes?

>>96391604
Every legion had solar aux buddies during the crusade bro

>>96391747
This anon has a point, you should base your life around what you love, not being an edgy contrarian

>>96391747
Because I don't want to play the same legion as someone else and make my local scene same-y

>>96391760
Most of the legion auxilia color schemes look like hot ass, though. If it's not in a 1.0 black book, it's shit.

>>96391766
If these words were held to any regard tg wouldn’t be such a shit hole

>>96391789
Just make up your own cohort scheme that you like
>>96391799
Be the change you want in the world frend

Now that the dust has settled was Curze right in treating Nostramo criminals so harshly or should he have focused on human rights and rehabilitation instead?

How would you have saved Nostramo in Curze absence?

>>96391766
>DURRRRR YOU SHOULD MAKE YOUR LOCAL SCENE INTO A BUNCH OF RETARDED SAMELEGION MIRROR MATCHES

You're retarded and gay.

>>96391841
Curze was right, terrorism is the only way to enact real change. This is why you should flay Kevin Rountree alive and crucify his corpse outside of Warhammer World during the night, because it'll scare GW into writing good rules and getting their shit together. If it doesn't, start repeating the same thing but with other execs. Fear is a motivator.

>>96391841
I think the 8th legion ended up criminal because of the culture Cruze imposed on them.
Nostramo was no less criminal than any other planet that the other primarches used for requirement.
Criminal teenagers from every criminal planet are recruited to become the owners of humanity.

>>96391872
good or bad rules don't actually make GW money though, producing models does

>>96391841
Curze failed because he didn't do anything to build up society better after flaying and skinning his way through the population, he really thought people would just understand what he wanted if he killed enough of them.

>>96391860
... or you could just not have identical armies because you're not some kinda meta chasing fag, right anon?

>>96391885
Then just start blowing up their manufacturing locations and warehouses until they fix their shit.

>>96391545
I won't lie, he's fine when he's writting anything except Night Lords.
I like his Black Legion series, I like Betrayer(my biggest mistake was reading that one first since I have an obsession with reading orders), I somewhat found Helsreach fine but... that's it really.

>>96391860
You could try doing something different even as the same Legion
>Unmarked Ultras
>traitor loyalists
>loyalist traitors
>True Believers vs moderate Traitors
>Blackshield-adjacent Primarch deniers (Dusk Guard, Luna Wolves, War Hounds, The Rout, etc.)
>captcha: HHVWR
Horus Heresy Varies Widely Retard

>>96391769
yeah you're right there's only 20+ factions in this game that can either be traitor or loyalist and built in any combination you choose

that doesn't leave a lot of options for you unless you want to show up to games wearing the same sundresses

>>96391908
I don't want to play the same legion as someone else in my area. Even I like traitor SoH best, I will not play them, because someone else does at my store.

>>96391045 (OP)
>How would you fix deeps strike?
Go back to 7th ed deep strike.
Deep strike can be bought on terminator units for like 50 points a unit.
You can deep strike up to 9" away from an enemy
Warmonger gives you deep strike on a unit and lets you charge outta deep strike as well. and lets you deep strike up to 6" near an enemy.

You are welcome i fixed it.

>>96391966
So you gonna beat someone up if they join your area with the same army as you're already playing?

>>96391841
Curze failed because he forgot there's more than terror, Sevatar literally asks him if he tried other ways. He even went "did you had any policy beyond that?"

>>96391970
Warmonger is a trap pick.

>>96391980
why do you say that?

>>96391974
No, I'll kill their family, because it'd be retarded for, idk, loyalist blood angels to fight loyalist blood angels for example. There can only be one.

>>96391991
Good chance of getting suppressed on your own turn? No thanks.

>>96391860
Maybe you shouldn't mono list you boring butt fucker

>>96391901
What could he have done differently?

>>96392015
Idk most primarchs seem to conquer their planets pretty ez, Fulgrim was in a comparable shit hole and did fine.

>>96391955
I thought Soul Hunter was kino
Blood Reaver was significantly worse, and the dedication to /tg/ was a bitter irony as it felt very tryhard edgy compared to the first book. It was also kinda shit, since I can only remember
>le storms of piss
>Huron is somewhere in there
>Talos seeing versions of himself pledged to the gods
>The Exalted being kino (or was the book 3?)
I legit forgot he even met Abbadon.
Void Stalker was pretty good though. I liked First Heretic and Aurelian back when I read them but I'm not sure if they'd hold up now.

>>96391976
He also became a sadist like his legion as well, it wasn't just about the means to an end. To be fair his visions mind raped his sanity.

>>96391996
loyalists almost (or did) come to blows on numerous occasions.
Who was traitor and who was loyalist was not a clear thing to people at the time.

Of all the reasons to not want the same faction as someone else, lore is a terrible reason.

>>96392025
To be fair some planets were much worse, Nostramo and Barbarus were legit hell holes. Fulgrim's homeworld seemed fine in comparison?

>>96391872
He will only be replaced by another woke stake holder capitalist corpo lackey

>>96392036
>loyalists from the same fucking legion encounter each other
>"TRAITOR"

absolutely fucking retarded.

>>96392066
Dark Angels teamkill each other and other same-allegiance factions all the time.

>>96392002
I thought this was terrible as well to begin with, but after thinking about it, its honestly not that bad.

Interceptor is snapshots, sdo they're hitting you on 5+, and they have to force a wound through on (presumably) a terminator to suppress you, and then you get to roll to lift it at the end of the turn anyway.

Is it super good? Maybe not, but I wouldn't call it a trap.

>>96392066
if you are going to be autistic about that, are you gonna refuse to play loyalist against another loyalist player? Custards?

Enjoy being a nogame loser if you want my friend, but thats pretty gay.

>>96392044
>Barbarus
Partially terraformed by insane aliens/mutant who raped the populace both literally and figuratively
>Fenris
Planet with violent geological cycle that literally destroys habitable land in a generation or less, AND it's harsh enough that you need gene mods just to live there
>Medusa
Constant catastrophic earthquakes and storms, random killer robots
>Nostromo
Criminals and corruption
Curze is a fucking clown

>>96392087
It's a fucking narrative game. You're not supposed to play games that go against the narrative.

>>96391756
The are from the maker's cult, from the scouts on their !not thunderwarrior line. I printed the arms out and cut them at the elbow, then attached them to the beastmen elbows and reshaped the joint with greenstuff. Extremely autistic and tedious solution that I won't be doing again.

>>96392099
If you are unable to forge a narrative for any game you could play, that's on you.

>>96392099
Lol. Shut up, moron.

>>96391245
>>96391380
you didn't ask for criticism but I hate how grainy your airbrush work is

>>96392099
if you think that anything that isn't explicitly spelled out in the books is 'against the narrative' then you sound like an exceptionally unfun person to play with anon.

>>96392099
Oh yeah? Narrative THIS!
*rapes ya*

>>96392075
Autists like them shouldn't be used as an example

>>96392133
Very cool project

Is there a chaos spawn profile

>>96392029
Yeah his visions really screwed him up. I remember him seeing each Primarch's future, and both Dorn and Ferrus involved death.

>>96392066
Tbf Anon there was an exemplary battle where Blood Angels and Iron Hands were beefing over supplies not to mention the Iron Hands didn't trusted them iirc but then came someone else and they teamed up, atleast for a moment

>>96392090
Yes but you add Curze mental illness from his visions it's a bad mix

>>96392090
Also Baal
>Literally a mutated wasteland with mutated lifeform, including sentient liquid that could drain you to death.

>>96392211
Goalposts = raped

I’ve always thought of Nostromo as Space Australia (as in they shipped all the criminals there in ages past) and I don’t want to learn the specific lore to update that image in my mind.

>>96391045 (OP)
Should I start Sons of Horus or Emperor's Children? I think that Phoenix Terminators and Palatine Blades are gorgeous models but the Reavers and Justaerin look nice as well, the whole SoH armor style has that agressive look. So which one should I pick?

>>96392228
It's not a vacuum anon, there are several elements which plays a part.

>>96392295
just do both
set your army on Isstvan III or V and stomp out some fucking loyalists

I DON'T CARE IF APOTHECARIES ARE BAD I WILL MAKE 9 OF THEM SO I CAN RUN 3 UNITS OF PROCURATORS IF I WISH

>>96392256
Sure Australia has mines and criminals but too much sunlight, it would be a mix of Australia with the Scandinavia winter where the sun is gone for months, just permanently.

>>96392324
are they even bad? putting an apothecary in with teriminators or veterans would make ruin the efficiency of damage 2 weapons
I'm usually swimming in reaction points and the extra bonus to mental tests helps too

>>96392142
Post models

>>96392295
Both are cool. SoH get more releases, particularly characters, due to being the main legion.

I'm always so ANGRY. What legion is for me?

>>96392394
World Eaters
Iron Hands (ver. MOON MAN)

>>96392394
DOMINITUS ULTRAMARINI

>>96392394
What kind of anger? Blood angels

>>96392434
The Greatest of Them All...

>>96391236
Still working on my franken gorgon preds

Alright, I took into consideration some critiques of Solar Auxilia and tried my hand at a page, put in a blurb of Veteran options at the end, and gave Militia orders.

This is the last thread in a row I will shill my homebrew. I'll play some of this next week and see how it goes as well as listen to more SA players and what they like/hate about every edition.

https://gofile.io/d/uMkuRV

>>96392027
Soul Hunter is the Abaddon and chaos Talos’s. Exalted redemption is Blood Reaver, that was cool

Blood Reaver is meh because there was a lot more Octavia and who gives a shit even if The Hound was cool. Hell the space station slave guy was more interesting. Void Stalker was better.

>>96392534
The one thing I would say is not to allow you to take the Infernus or Valdor in squads, they can go in Tericos but only as individual tanks.

In lore both vehicles are supposed to be very rare compared to the standard Malc. The Valdor has only just been invented as a dedicated auxilia tank hunter and the Infernus is literally a Titan grade flamer built into a tank.

It SHOULD be hard to spam them, not LOW hard but still relatively difficult you know?

As for the Veletaris Command squad, I feel like the vets are fine at WS 4 because they are only mortal at the end of the day, +1 attack over regular Veletaris is fine for showing their experience. Give the first prime WS5 and a rule which compels them to issue challenges and a refractor field (5++) because they're basically auxilia champion consuls just not as strong because again they are mortal.

All your other ideas seem great tho senpai.

>>96392634
Christ the plastic veletari kit was such a downgrade. Got my resin veletari from Chang coming in the mail soon

>>96392634
Reasonable. I shall adjust. Thank you.

>>96392397
Do you think Autek Mor listens to moonman songs but with all the slurs changed for traitor-specific slurs?

>>96392644
The plastic models are nice, but yeah the resin ones are actually peak.

>>96392343
Since the apothecary can't benefit from his own Medic! Damage Reduction it means in practice he dies rather quick once things like AC HSS start pointing at him.

Also, why would you use your reaction allotment on Medic! You have objectives to walk off of when Vanguard units get near

>>96392777
why would you willingly take shots on your apothecary?
also why would you put your apothecary into a "squishy" squad that would be easily swept over by vanguard units?

>>96392787
because you need to read 7 sections of the book to figure out what they actually do?

>>96392787
1. Because that's how wound allocation works. if you have 5 terminators and an apothecary, and take a bajillion autocannon hits, you take saves on terminators until all 5 die, then excess shots go on the apothecary until it dies.
Then you roll 4+ medic rolls to reduce the damage done by the 5 attacks that killed terminators, and 2-3 (on average) stand back up. The apothecary is still dead, though.
2. I never said the apothecary's squad would be the one move reactiong.

>>96391841
If he wanted to prevent crime the way to do that is to increase the probability of criminals being caught, increasing penalties doesn't do anything if people still expect to be able to get away with crime, and habitual criminals who are the people who commit the majority of crime arent people who can be "rehabilitated".

>>96392804
The Medic! reaction when FNP still exists is a bit mind-boggling

>>96391236
Well I have nothing new to contribute so let me post a classic

>>96392804
it takes 32 shots ON AVERAGE to kill 5 tartaros terminators before a single one needs to be allocated to the apothecary
you are ON AVERAGE never going to take saves on the apothecary from a normal 10 man squad, standing still to benefit from Heavy(FP)
and even if it gets there, you have basically prevented half the squad from dying

>>96392872
Isn't that picture more commenting on women's weird obsession with serial killers?

>>96392872
Nah, trannies play primaris and just throw on their retarded flags to try and push their fetish.

>>96392860
Ok. Thanks for the math. So alive or dead, the apothecary is only useful for a single turn at most.

>>96392887
Yes, but you can't rationalize with these people.

>>96392894
yes if you put him in a minimum squad of tartaros terminators
so if you are a moron

>>96392899
Anons living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones

>>96392973
It's reinforced glass and the stones are small

>>96391841
It takes 1 second to solve the nostramo issue. It (the fictional planet) is a sunless worthless planet (0/10 quality) with an inferior rapey people with inferior DNA (0/10 quality) and inferior culture (0/10 quality)

1 second later - press button for your battleship to delete nostramo from the universe, then have the emperor assign you a new planet with at least 5/10 environment, at least 7/10 culture and at least 7/10 genetics. If receiving stupid offer of going traitor from Horus, smile and the second his back is turned strike his head off his shoulders and bring it back to the Emperor.

The entire nostramo bullshit is like you have a garden with poison soil and no sunlight because the building nearby and there's just spiky weeds growing in it, and you try to fix it by slicing a few of the weeds, but fixing zero of the problems. The weeds aren't extinct and their DNA is literally exactly the same even if 5% of them were chopped up. They just regrow to the exact same horrible yard if you're away for a month. The imperium had all the resources to buy Curze a whole new house with a clean perfect yard and perfect for his every needs, but because it's all shitty writing, he goes traitor for absolutely no reason instead of even asking to be given an actual legion (and you can't even try to justify the shitty writing by saying "well he loved his horrible children" because Curze says OVER AND OVER AGAIN he fucking HATES his shitty legion of retards and his horrible planet (which he rightfully DESTROYS so he can't really care about it)

Every traitor primarch would instantly be given conditions to just join the imperium and not go traitor. Sanguinius is telling Curze he'll be brought back and given a new legion during Imperium Secundus despite the things he's done. Magnus is offered to be brought back and given a new legion even right before the Siege of Terra, he simply refuses to give up his loser legion and receive a new one.

>Start planning lists for other legions to explore outside of my current one
>Realize I'd rather just have all the models in those planned lists to run different approaches with my current legion depending on my mood or the narrative at my LGS
Guess I'm never expanding beyond Peter Turbo's grasp.

>The 17th Company of the Sons of Horus Legion, known as the Hesperus Guard
>By the time of the 17th Company's deployment on Isstvan III, it consisted of 205 Legionaries. Roughly half of the company's strength was made of Tactical Squads - this was supplemented by two Veteran Squads, three Reconnaissance Squads, one Heavy Support Squad and multiple batteries of support weaponry.
Kino.

Do you think mechanicum will get any actually new units this edition or will it all just be plastic refreshes

>>96391841

Astartes back then were also taken very young right? So you’re telling me the Night Lords could find and conscript a whole bunch of 12 year old serial killers and rapists?

>>96393142
This is why the lore about Space Marines is so fucking retarded.

>>96393078
Curze believed he had no agency anonchama. He wanted to have no agency, he wanted M'shen to cut his head off.

Because if he did have agency he'd need to accept that he's a complete fuck up.

>>96393138
Im hoping every faction gets at least 1 or 2 new units this edition. Marines, Mechanicum, Auxilia, Custodes and the SoS (god only knows the SoS need new units.)

>>96393157
that's the problem with shitty authors trying to write really shitty books.
Curze can prove free will exists every second of his life by simply seeing the future and choosing to do literally anything else. He sees a vision that he's going to stab somebody with his claws? Just remove the claws, change your weapon to a big knight sword and a volkite pistol and go to the opposite end of the galaxy instead.
If Sanguinius sees horus standing over his corpse and then drives his ship into the sun, he wouldn't be killed by horus and horus couldn't possibly stand over his body.
It's literally impossible to have the ability to see the future without instantly learning that the ability is badly written bullshit that doesn't exist. If you see that a week from now you're going to have a beer with Steven... and seeing this you chop Steven into two pieces... you've instantly proven 100% certainly that free will always trumps "future vision"

>>96393197
>If Sanguinius sees horus standing over his corpse and then
Sang acting on his premonitions is a major theme of the novels, and his motivation for going to the Vengeful Spirit in TE&TD. Horus' eternal monologue even says "you've cheated fate one too many times, time to fucking die"

>>96393142
true. The surgeries start at about 10, so they would be innocent children who havent even undergone puberty, and the legion would simply take the 10 year olds into a spaceship and could simply go to a 2nd planet with zero females or crime opportunities and make them do the Ninja Warrior Challenges until they're made into a full space marine at 16-18.

>>96393256
it's not a theme at all actually. Seeing you're going to eat ice cream and going to baskin robbins and ordering ice cream is not "testing your powers" or trying to see if you have free will, you fucking retard child

>>96393272
>you fucking retard child
Says the guy who got filtered by BLslop, KWAB

>>96393197
>Curze can prove free will exists every second of his life by simply seeing the future and choosing to do literally anything else. He sees a vision that he's going to stab somebody with his claws? Just remove the claws, change your weapon to a big knight sword and a volkite pistol and go to the opposite end of the galaxy instead.

You're missing the entire point of his character and his future vision.

Curze has always been a psychopath who enjoys hurting people but he doesn't actually want to admit that because if he did he wouldn't be able to pretend he was any better than your average Nostraman gangbanger.

So he used his future sight to cope by claiming the world was deterministic and free will didn't exist so its totally OK if he sticks more orphans in a blender.

He never wanted to be proven wrong so he never did. The visions he saw were visions of him hurting people because he enjoyed it and would have done it anyway even if he wasn't coping.

>>96393142
Process is risky but it looks like they used to recruit them quite a bit older in 30k. See Typhon, all of Lion's butt buddies, all the lefions who pick "honored warriors" from the tribal shitheads in their planets, etc

>>96393197
Curze didn't see the only outcome, he saw multiple outcomes, all bad, and trying to change fate usually ended up causing even worse futures. At one point he was about to murder some kid and he sees two possible futures if he lets the kid go, 10% chance he becomes a good guy and helps nostromo, 90% he becomes evil, so he just goes "cant risk it" and kills him

>>96392836
candidate for worst written rules of 3.0, just flabbergastingly bad

>>96393138
they already teased a new unit

>>96393320
30k they had better tech so they could do it at an older age. They also got it down to less than a year during the heresy for Inductii.

>>96393361
Which one?

>>96393368
some weird looking rifle, could me new titan guard, or something else entirely

>>96393368
He means this thing. It doesn't look like an automata to me.

>>96393373
>>96393420
Oh right, the pilgryms. I mean, it fits what I asked, but not really what I wanted. Oh well, I have more than enough mech stuff to build and paint anyway

>>96393420
>28mm base infantry with volkite
Gonna be hot garbage. Give me a new robot and give it customizable equipment this time please.

>>96393448
sorry anon everything is box locked now. that'll be $80 with $60 DLC

>>96393442
Did you really want MORE robots? The legio Cybernetica already make up most of the army list and the Thallax/Ursarax are basically robots too.

>>96393420
>>96393442
Are these going to be traitor locked?

>>96393448
There's nothing wrong with mortals carrying volkite.

>>96393475
If anything, they'd be loyalist locked

>>96393477
the coolest niggers alive

>>96393475
Pilgrims have been mentioned mostly on Loyalist sides iirc.

>>96393479
>>96393487
neat, I just thought they looked a little more 'evil'. What are they?

>>96393477
Why are the FW models so based?

>>96393477
Volkite guns are just trash in game.

>>96393475
Doubt it, If the Dark Mech are getting anything its the Smaller LIgma stalkers. They're "only" Defiler sized.

>>96393509
Better than bolters

>>96393510
Doubt it, I think they learned their lesson on leggy models with the Hierophant

>>96393510
I hope so, I want to see the non legion factions get a bunch of weird or cool shit.

>>96393509
Only the big ones, Volkite chargers and Calivers are pretty good.

Comparing a 10 Caliver TSS to a 10 plasma TSS the Caliver kills one less marine on average but the plasma loses a model to overload every round so I'd say it balances out.

>>96393512
Not in a world where bolters are FP2 and R24

What was the point of Barthusa Narek as a character?

>>96393532
Eh, bolter tacs only outperform Calivers when stationary but Calivers can outrange Bolters meaning the bolters need to move to fire, plus the Calivers can avoid the return fire reaction.

Chargers are much shorter range but they get assault so you can get more shots out of them at close range. SoH Chargers in particular seem pretty nuts.

>>96393494
The Skitari are a separate military force from the Taghmata and the Titanica in 30k. They come in 2 forms mentioned, Skitarii Pilgryms and Skitarii Protectors. Pilgryms are ranged specialists and Protectors are close quarters oriented.

>>96393567
The only reason he existed was to help Eldrad kill the Cabal.

>>96393576
Ruststalkers and Infiltrators exist in 30k too but we'll never get rules for them because GW finance would have a melty.

>>96393479
Not a chance, the 30k Skittles were loyal to Mars not the Emperor and Kelbor-Hal is a fucking Traitor.

>pinning (2)
*pins your units*

>>96393598
>Ruststalkers and Infiltrators exist in 30k
Not anymore. Buy the equivalent, or suffer the Pinkertons.

>>96393638
>War Machine
>225 Points
>24" range
>no indirect pinning
>no conditional pinning 3.
This is real pinning martian.

this blending shit is hard

>>96393709
NGL anon, the pipes are an interesting extra detail, but that half drum looks silly.

>>96393737
yeah I thought that after I painted it but I'm committed to the bit

A loaded question, but you'll see where I'm going with this: what kind of melee and ranged weaponry would suit a unit nicknamed "Huntsman" or "Hunter"?

>>96393806
I always think Jaeger/Jager

>>96393806
Spears and long rifles.

>>96393806
Kukri's and axes

>>96393806
A slingshot and dynamite

>>96393806
shotgun and hatchet

>>96393806
Those little paper ninja stars you used to make in high school and a broken beer bottle.

>>96391769
"Sir, a 19th player has hit the local scene."

>>96393806
One of those bent barrel guns that dips down between your legs then up and around to fire down your ass hole.

>>96393709
Sluts

Glad to see the thread is quality as usual...

>>96393922
Cute obliterator

>>96393806
Spear and magic helmet.

>>96393896
phobos land raiders are NOT sluts

>>96393890
Clearly they play Aux or Mechanicum.

>>96393922
This is of course a silly exaggeration, but I think Saturnine would look great with two smaller guns mounted on those flat armour panels, instead of on top.

Right, let's try and turn this thread around on this fine Bank Holiday Monday morning.

Post what you're working on, what you've recently finished, what you want to do, list ideas, bat reps, fucking ANYTHING.

I'm going to be double teaming painting my Vet Breachers and my first Solar Auxilia today

What is worth putting in rhinos? 4 squads of whatever troops. Trying to decide if 4 is enough or if I should whale harder.

>>96394339
Keep getting IP range blocked randomly, no idea why. It's very annoying, and prevents me from posting WIPs.

>>96394339
Just finished building a tlc cata squad to go in a spartan and an autocannon hss. Next is finishing up an armistos I'm building out of the saturnine box centurion, then it'll be finishing up a cata librarian and praetor, and building 10 breachers and I'll have my 2k list built. Painting won't happen for a long while. Painting competition just started up for my lgs so it'll be all my painting time for the next few months and I'm doing a fantasy battle mini.

>>96393569

...or you could combine those two weapons for the Combi-Volkite, the most based of all Combi-Weapons. So you now have a Bolter AND a Volkite Charger and can fire both each turn, because for some reason, Combi-Volkite doesn't have limited, and never has.

>>96394415
>ip blocked out of nowhere
Phone posting? If so you can reset it by turning off data for a few seconds and turning it back on. Might end up with another blocked ip so it may take a couple tries.

>>96394434

What do you give the Armistos these days? Does Implacable Advance even do anything for him now? It's just the Heavy Flamer that can use it, right? Unless you have some weird legion specific thing that doesn't have Heavy.

>>96393890
Every single scene should have two people playing the XXth legion, and nobody should know which of the two is the loyalist and which is the traitor.

>>96394446
>implacable advance
Yeah just heavy flamer for implacable advance.
>what to give him
I just went with an autocannon. My list has a drop pod, breachers, and the autocannon hss as an allied contingent. I needed a character for the logi benefit, and they can't go with breachers in a drop pod. So I figured might as well run an armistos to sit with my hss. It isn't efficient but it works. Though I guess I could run a warmonger instead of the drop pod and armistos, and use the prime for paragon of battle or combat vet instead. But if the breachers get supressed they can't swipe objectives or tag up tanks with lascutter shooting. Not really sure what the correct answer is.

>>96394439
I think it's fine that the less powerful combi-weapons aren't limited. If anything combi-plasma shouldn't have limited either, since it doesn't have the overcharge profile as an option but only the limp dick Str 7 Breaching 6 one.

>>96393806
Sniper rifle and piss jar.

>>96392027
>>96392633
Honestly? I liked Blood Reaver the most because NL actually acted like NL and not just renegades. Void Stalker sucks though.

>>96394339
The bastard Falchion project continues. I'll do some more work on the gun to make it more esoteric/brutal, but I'm almost happy with it

Fairly happy with this red as a base for my SA. I can't quite decide if I want to do a very light grey for the armour panels, or quite a dark bronze.

>>96394663
Sorry to double post but I fucking love this thing and I've been following it with interest. Where are your extra bits coming from?

>>96394667
Glad you like it bro! I'm pretty organic with my kitbashes. As soon as I see something that looks good pop up on ebay or a bits site I incorporate it into the project. The resin bits at the rear are from Blood and Skulls Industries (also tracks to be added). The main neutron laser is from a Valdor destroyer, and the capacitor (with cables to be added) is from a laser vindicator

>>96394664
I quite like bronze and red. I think they're a good combo. But you do run the risk of making them read as Khorne-ish. I guess that's less of a risk given the darker nature of the colours you'd go for.

how many months does it usually take GW to restock a primarch?

>>96394685
It'd be the same bronze as I did in this Custode years ago probably. But I have done it before which is why I was thinking very pale/light grey for something different.

>>96392872
Trannies are fleshlights.

>>96394698
It's based on the Primarch's numerical designation. So for example, the Lion gets restocked in a single month, while Guilliman takes 13 months, and Alpharius takes a whopping 20 months to restock.

>>96394664
It would seem anon that you and I are building 2 different Cohorts from the same world. This is the finished prototype of the Scheme I'm doing lol.

>>96394751
Traitor or Loyalist anon? This is my first Loyalist army ever in Heresy...

>>96394752
Anon, I... I'm also playing loyalist.
Where are you from Anon, surely you're nowhere close to me right?

>>96394771
South coast of England. Considering where we are, that's probably even too much information

>>96394790
All good then, we're not even in the same country.

GL repping the colours anon!

>>96391058
Fpbp
How will space wolfies recover?

>>96391058
Makes sense. Space Wolves are the 6th legion and the 6th month is Pride Month.

>>96394831
>pedo artist

>be full of fun ideas for kitbashes and conversions for my armies at work
>on days off, barely function as a human being
What causes this? The most hobbying I've done in the last ten years is clipping parts from sprues.

>>96394878
Even more fitting if true.

>>96391841
>How would you have saved Nostramo in Curze absence?
I wouldn't
The entire point is that it wasn't worth saving

>>96394892
It's true. It was found out that the guy has pedo art (literally "little girl") as one of his liked tags on Pixiv. Cue losers trying to rationalize it.

SO MILITIA THIS WEEK RIGHT????

>>96394916
The militia and daemons rules were delayed like, what, around a year in 2.0? Would be surprising if they didn't get delayed this time around.

>>96394916
Its gonna have to be this week.

>>96394887
It's normal, it's because you are bored and your mind wanders off.

>>96394887
Could be a sign of being close to overworked. Once you get time to relax all the times you needed rest but couldn't catch up with you, making it very hard to do anything at all.
Or you just got into the habit of not doing anything whilst at home. Hard to say really.

>>96394887
I love this picture, it sums up this general perfectly.

>>96394887
This is a pretty typical depression symptom.

>>96394530

Probably because they weren't in any of the previous edition, and also, if they tried here the obvious TSons player they have in the office would have abused the hell out of it with 5+ Rending Combi-Plasma.

>>96394916
If it's not this week I'm sticking a redshirt's hand in a blender.

Very rough for now - thoughts on this as a basic scheme? Weirdly I think the tanks will be easier because I can spray Grey Seer on the turrets and paint them separately, however I think this might be a massive ballache on the infantry. Of which I will have at least 100.

>>96395078
You want the armour to be darker than the undersuit, makes em easier to paint.

>>96395117
Yeah, looking at it, I'm thinking I'll make the torso armour and the underpants the brass colour and keep the shoulder and thigh armour as off-white

>>96395128
How are you doing the head?

>>96395128
These are traitors right?

>>96395148
Haven't fully decided, hence why they're off the bodies still.

>>96395159
No.

Real heresychads play solar aux, just as Alan Bligh intended

Looking better, paint goes on easier than the white too. White shins looks a bit too much like socks thought.

>>96395244
Someone has to mow you down in droves every time you hit the table

>>96395298
You're cooking with this scheme senpai. Keep working on it.

>>96394478
also they should be twins

also, occasionally they should change ends during a battle without telling anybody

but every time they do that they kiss

>>96395317
Yes. Seeing my funny little dudes I lovingly assembled and painted get mowed down is the point of the game, is it not?

If I were to take a veteran heavy support squad solely for disintegrators, is there any reason besides price to go for blasters over heavy disintegrators? Heavies seem like flat better blasters when not moving, and equal or slightly better when you are, and it's "only" 5 ppm more.

>>96394339
>buildan
AL champ. Waffling on what melee for IW Armistos. TS Prosperine Sorceror
>paintan
Need to shade Exodus. Progressing on my Custodes. Need to finish a BA centurion.
>playan
Game set up for later today 2000 pts. I'm bringing Alpha Legion.

>>96395364
Theres no reason to ever take any flavour of disintegrator not mounted on a sat terminator. That means picking vet disintegrators 'at all' is a flavour choice so you should go with whatever gun you like the most.

>>96394916
August 42

>>96394878
Fork found in kitchen

>>96395364
Veteran Heavy Support have the Implacable Advance special rule. Meaning they can volley fire with Disintegrator Blasters, but not Heavy Disintegrators because the latter have the Heavy special rule.

>>96395364
D rifles are an actual trash choice. Not niche, flat handicap. Blasters have no reason to exist without either assault or 2 shots. Heavy are good, and a vet HSS can take one each. The termi and dread twin ones are also trash, they hurt you almost as much as the enemy, overload 2 was a mistake.

In summary, only the heavy is worth taking.

>>96395391
there isnt' really a reason to take the terminator disintegrators either desu

>>96395244
I only play my Solar Auxilia in HH1 on square bases, ranked up like Napoleonic Redcoats.

I don't really care about these models so this is as much as they're getting painted.

>>96395698
>I don't care about these models
>Paints them
We have very different definitions

>>96395698
>thousand sons

I hope you get raped anon <3

So reading the HH novels isn't necessary, right? Can you just get away with reading the 1.0 black books?

>>96395772
Yeah, read the black books and you'll be alright.

>>96395772
You could just read lexicanum, the overall heresy plot isn't that complicated

>>96395772
Read the black books, Know No Fear (the only legitimately good scifi novel in the HH series), and then maybe start reading plot descriptions of books on lexicanum if you want to read the Siege of Terra series

>>96395772
Yes and yes.

>>96395772
>reading the Blacked Books
Index Astartes is the only canon worth reading.

>>96395861
>Psst, hail sisyphus

>>96391328
What were the rules again for that? I have the black books but don’t want to riff through them this AM.

>>96394339

Currently hammering my Mechanicum lists into something vaguely neat while cursing the fact my Macrocarid is a pretty but useless brick now. All the actual units seem quite usable, though, I'm reasonably impressed with the internal balance even if the inability to do anything but footslog due to faction keyword nonsense is brutal and I'd like more Magos options.

Buildwise, I'm tinkering with a Champion and wondering if I want to go with World Eaters or Sons of Horus for the allied detachment he's going to be in. WE can get a supremely choppy champion and I like duels, Sons of Horus have those cool chieftains who can hack people up with axes while the boss is paragon blading things. Might end up being WE just for the really neat charge reaction.

>>96395932
2d6 Scatter, blob up, no charge. Mishap 1 dies, 2-4, opp places, 5-6 delayed. Pods don't mishap unless of table. Vox eliminates scatter in aura.

What is the correct ratio of Tacticals to Despoilers for Iron Warriors? 40 marines to go before I start painting, I have 20 Tacs and 20 Support guys.

>>96392343
Set medics to 6+ FNP and keep the reduction with status’s. Also keep the Medic reaction to 4+. What do we think?

>>96396070
Something like 9 tacs to each despoiler squad, possibly more. IW just sat on the trench for months lobbing mortars at walls. Despoilers would only really be used for extremely close quarters trench/bunker clearing and storming a breach, but both of those roles are better served by, y'know, breachers, or terminators

>>96396116
IW were also know for their violent charges into any opening or breach, almost rivalling the WE in savagery. But maybe that's older lore that most people have forgotten about.

>>96396116
Guess I’ll do 20 more Tacs, a flamer squad and 10 Despoilers to stick in a Rhino.

>>96395978
Yeah I'd rather have 3.0 deep strike and not be forced to place models in perfect formation to get annihilated by the first blast weapon pointed their way.

>>96396137
Yeah but again, breachers and termies. That's literally what they were made for

is the traditional Librarian iconography around in 30k? I have an extra Turmiel I was thinking of using as a quick librarian since they're strong

What’s the likelihood of a plastic Mastodon? I’d like to stick a blob of Immortals in one but fuck paying obscene resin prices for one

>>96396185
The horned skull was in use in 30k for some reason, yes.

>>96396193
Almost nonexistant

>>96396215
Guess I’ll sell a kidney or a lobe of my liver.

>>96396185
Very nice model. Love the robes and the sword is very DA. I have to ask the store if someone has any spare of this model.

>>96396193
There's a plastic fellblade on the way, so it's possible but not any time soon most likely

>>96396116
Tacticals, Despoilers...make no mistake, marine. Whatever you're armed with, you ARE charging.

>>96396261
Said by a man, that left a siege. And not just once. He left one on attack, and one on defence. And to make it more mind blowing, in both cases it seemed that he was winning.

newrecruit doesn't have legacies in it yet for 3.0? fugggg

>>96396291
Pert’s autism is unfathomable.

>>96395978
Should units be allowed to charge out of deepstrike?

>>96396359
Only if Dark Angle or Custodes as those two have superior technology to all other forces.

>>96396291
If something isn't going your way, you should change it, and if you can't, you should leave. Perty was not going to obey some Disease Monster's commands, so, he left. Good for him, really.

>>96396409
>I HAVE TAKEN THEIR MEASURE
Based Perturbed Rob

>>96396359
As mentioned here>>96396385
yes but no.
Generally across the board? No, select units/army RoW? Yes
I however also ascribe to the notion that a warmonger should let you charge outta deep strike as well.

Really Deep strike need to be broken up into 2 different types
Teleport, and orbital drop in.
Dropping in from orbit should be subject to intercept, but if its an infentry model or a model with like 3 or less wounds, it should only be able to be intercepted with skyfire weapons or snap shots.

Teleport should not be able to be intercepted and you should be able to charge outta a teleport strike.

>>96396294
This is why relying on apps and listbuilders is a foolish exercise.
Also because of all the mistakes that never get fixed. Lost count of the amount of times someone in the local HH group started throwing a temper tantrum over their sergeants no longer being allowed something, and me having to point out to them that it is in fact still allowed...

Of the many silly bits of trivia about Pert, one that doesn't get brought up much is that he invented Logic 2. He credits himself with having invented a whole new form of logic, somehow different from the logic used by everyone else. His logic, also called the art of siege, essentially boils down to doing anything necessary to achieve total crushing victory. In his mind he's the only one who thinks like that. That's Perturabo logic. And that's funny.

>>96396359
With how transports work now and set up moves I don't even want charging from deep strike any more. Can get my units where they need to be just as fast without getting cucked by failed reserve rolls all the time.

>>96396423
>Really Deep strike need to be broken up into 2 different types
>Teleport, and orbital drop in.
>Dropping in from orbit should be subject to intercept, but if its an infentry model or a model with like 3 or less wounds, it should only be able to be intercepted with skyfire weapons or snap shots.
>Teleport should not be able to be intercepted and you should be able to charge outta a teleport strike.

yeah that makes more sense,

>>96396449
Honestly with how transports work now, your best bet is to actually use transports as traps, just hold back and wait for them to get into your threat range, and then bullrush them forward and dump your boys out and get into melee basically instantly.
Been doing this with breacher recently and its hilarious. Just dumping out 10 breachers with 2 las cutters in them, and running up on things like Land raider.
2 S10 Armor bane 8" 2d shots, then charge in and get 2 S12 D4 hits on it as long as you dont fucking roll 1s you can pop a land raider in a fucking turn.

>>96396409
yeah, and when he was fighting against Dorn instead of staying and fighting to his full destruction and damage to the ultramarine force, he decided to run instead of fighting bis zum bitteren ende.

>>96396423
I hope that GW is going to start with their journals soon. And with like 1-2 per month to bring back the armies people liked to play. Full tank companies, Fury of the Ancients, Bike armies, full Planetary assault armies. I don't think they can do it just with a legacy pdf and 1-2 characters. We would need some sort of Warmonger Conclave where you take 3 of them and deep strike multiple units. And BA will, rightfuly so, ask for a jump pack "Dawn Bringer" style detachment .

>>96396448
We already knew he was autistic. Also, that just sounds like regular logic?

>>96396291

Fog of war's a hell of a thing my dude. It's what won Antietam for the North in the civil war, and the reason Halsey wasn't court-martialled and shot after his catastrophic fuckup at Leyte Gulf.
In the former, the South simply couldn't believe that McClellan could be that passive, that incompetent as to not give out any orders without having some kind of monstrous plan or reinforcements coming. They could not conceive of the north having a general as bad as he was, and retreated, plucking defeat from the jaws of victory.

As for the latter. Halsey should have been shot anyway for leaving the San Bernardino straight completely uncovered. Forget the fast Battleships, a Destroyer, fuck a monkey with a telescope and a radio would have been enough.
If the Japanese navy hadn't been mostly worthy of the abject contempt that Halsey showed for them, and Kurita hadn't completely lost control of the situation. TF Center should have swept aside Spragues ships, at Samar, gone straight to the US landing sites on Leyte and bombarded them out of existence.
As it was he got over a thousand American servicement killed, alongside 2 escort carriers and 3 destroyers.
Was his reaction to Nimitz's telegram REALLY anger, The World Wonders?

But yeah. Nothing snatches defeat from the jaws of victory like a good bit of fog of war.

>>96396469
People that use shoting weapons on infantry are disgusting. A HH army should be waves of Despoilers and Inducti, with occasional tactical slaming in to each other. While terminators and melee dreadnoughts, wade through unit like the Gods of War that they are

>>96396423
So like old rites of war like deep strike assault? So if you arrive in a drop pod, no assault. But if you teleport…assault? Do I understand you correctly?

>>96396482
I don't understand what Fog of War has to do with siege craft. You fight till the other side dies from plague and low food, or they murder you after an X set of time, after which you start guerilla fighting.

>>96396470
Perturabo ran away? Literally how? The airspace wasn't safe for an evac, not with both the IF and UM fleets.
Perturabo was there because he NEEDED to ascend to daemonhood, and this he achieved by bleeding the Fists for it on a fortress-sized summoning circle.
The Target of Opportunity was Dorn, and the lives of every Imperial Fist. But Guilliman arrived, so Perturabo wasn't able to get this. Oh well, primary objective had been achieved already. Next time. And now he had eternity to do (or not do) whatever...

>>96396294
Yeah, it's taking it's time. They only gave White Scars their Falcon Claws and Ebon Keshig like two days ago.

>>96396470
DESU i hope their retarded legend shit just fixes things that came out in the PDF great example of this.

Jet bike retinues, the Champion does not have the Sgt keyword when every other retinue champion does, so RAW you cant give him master Sgt.

Dark angels have a dreadwing detatchment that right now can only take rapiers or interemptors which is bullshit because you should also be able to take destoryers, but because gw TOTALLY had that PDF ready at the get go, you cant.

SA should also be able to take minotars in their siege tercio.

IW should be able to take legion basilisks and medusas for their detachments too.

3.0 as a whole fucking annoys the shit outta me. The Core rules of 3.0 are OK, not great, but OK becuase they fixe a lot of shit, but then the libers come in and fuck everything up.
>>96396498
Yeah more or less.
Teleporting in shoudl be immune to intercept because im sorry, i call bullshit on being able to whirl around big ass fucking heavy weapons because a unit of fat ass terminators just literally snapped outta thin air with a thunder clap. But orbital drops should be subject to intercept because you know, you can see them falling in the sky, and that was always a major lore point that drop pods could be shot down and teleports you know could not be.

>>96396493
Okay Angron

>>96396515
Auspexes can detect the "telltale signs of an incoming teleportation". Did none of y'all watch Terminator?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjpBs2BfNbw

>>96396513
Horus was in control of time and space around Terra, Guilliman was never going to arrive

>>96391245
Has anyone tried putting the Kratos turret on a Baneblade? I wanna know if it'll fit the superstructure.

>>96396104
I think 5+ would be fine with D2 out there and general increase in shot volume..

Do Sons of Horus have any identify or lore beyond, well, being sons of Horus?

>>96396565
Yes

>>96396513
They are talking about Terra, not the Iron Cage

>>96396515
>>96396470
I doubt Journals are going to be dropping on a monthly basis or that they will fix anything. Best case I see is 2-3 months and it will be stuff on the same tier as the WarCom pdfs. Except now they are charging money and people expect a certain level of quality that they have already failed to deliver on.

>>96396168
Steel Rain and Underworld Assault died for these like warm, cowardly takes.

>>96396515
I think teleports shouldn't be able to charge but don't suffer the intercept but drop pods and the like suffer intercept but are able to charge. Risk reward type deal.

>>96396565
They're a bunch of feral gangers turned into space marines

>>96396515
So to balance out deep strike from teleport. Should old 2d6 + scatter be maintained and orbital drop or fliers use 1d6+ scatter. You can intercept fliers, pods, other vehicles (termites), jump pack infantry etc. No intercept for teleport units. And intercept against drop pod armour and if destroyed the whole unit is gone. And for armies with historically better teleport/deep strike maybe give them a slight boost somewhere. How does that sound? Both can charge straight out though.

>>96396535
This, as the spaced align there's an indicator. Scrambling the signal can delay it. It's not frame empty:frame termi level of instant.

>>96396579
I can get behind that.
So long as teleport is not locked to a fucking Character like the warmonger.
Should be accessable via a detachment that maybe requiers a warmonger and then you can take like 1 retinue, 1 elite, and 1 heavy assault unit that must be in terminator armor any characters attached to these units must also be in terminator armor.

>>96396537
No, the Perty Daemonhood siege was the Iron Cage, anon. That's Scouring Era.
On the actual Siege of Terra, Perty just got disillutioned Daemon Morty got put in command, as this was symbolic. Yes Fulgrim had wounded him for his ascension ("he'll pay when the opportunity arrives"), and yes he had been sent to fetch Daemon Angron ("he was always a rabid beast"), and yes, his brother Magnus was now a daemonic creature ("he was always messing with things he shouldn't be").
But when Daemon Mortarion was put in charge of the overall siege effort, that was different: It was Devil using Man, and not the other way around, and even Horus himself couldn't tell (and it does get him killed).
Perty had no daemonic patronhood - it was good that he left.

>>96396291
The HH series is pretty explicit on why he left the Siege of Terra.
He didn't want to win the war through Warp bullshit and it was clear that Horus was going to do that anyway. It wasn't about the end result but about the means.

>>96396565
>gangs
>tribals
>perfectly timed brutal rape

>>96396469
>just hold back and wait for them to get into your threat range
Very valid strategy, considering the threat range of most transports is anywhere in no mans land lmao. Everything leaving the opponent's deployment zone gets a squad launching themselves out of a transport at them. With how easy it is to hide outside LOS transports can also just creep forward a bit to extend the range. AV 14 is now resilient enough to just eat a round of shooting and still be ready to strike.
It's why I default to placing as much objective markers in the middle as possible. Forces people to either move in range and get close combat units jumping at them from every angle, or cower in their deployment zone and lose on points. And I have no issue placing my own units on the objectives, because they can just jump back inside their transports with movement reactions.
Can honestly kind of understand why the person losing the roll off gets the first turn this edition.

>>96396547
I'm at work right now but I'll take a pic of the Kratos turret on the Fellblade when I get back. The baneblade turret hole is a lot smaller, of course, but looking at the sprues they should fit together alright.

>>96396565
They basically a gang-tribesmen who love chopping heads of worthy enemies, and bathing them in Gold. They also love "tip of the spear" tactics and favour Tactical squads, alongside Despoilers.
And lastly, they use the special title of Chieftain, which is also doubling as "dude who's trusted enough to be also your honor guard".
Of course, during the Heresy they slowly begin losing that Identity to the point they become fanatics worshipping Horus.

>>96396646
And whats wild is a simple squad of breachers with 2 Las cutters and MB on SGT for 170 points, that will 100% wreck a LR in a round of shooting and then melee.

>>96396493
This is evidence of cognitive decay from the Butcher’s Nails

>>96391841
Wasn't the whole point of the night lords to represent Eastern Europe culture, more specifically the lack of care toward human dignity, culture and how everyone rapes and tortures each other for fun?

>>96396762
No, because even Nostromo managed to have something resembling a functioning society and low crime rates when Curze was in charge

>>96396762
Nostramo is Space Gotham
Night Haunter is Space Batman

>>96396589
Charging out of deepstrike creates too many binary games.

>>96392224
And Nocturne
>molten irradiated desert wasteland with settlement destroying earthquakes and erupting volcanos year round and extremely hostile dragon fauna

desu, its probably in the top 3 near uninhabitable planets of the primarchs homeworlds. how the fuck did everyone survive before big E showed up?

>>96396805
Its overall way to strong and there was a very good reason why i was os strongly against it when they introduced it in 8th ed 40k and why its still a major issue in the game.

>>96396689
I do like how marines have getting close with infantry to wreck shit as a legit option now. Was just suicide for most units during 1.0 and 2.0, I know that from personal experience.

>>96396817
Its pretty funny how extreme the differences in Primarch planets were. You get Lion and Russ dropping into max difficulty survival games, and then you get Fulgrim who is like "My pkanet's industrial economy wasn't doing that well"

>>96396839
>And Corax, believe it or not, straight to jail

Wait, are we getting any reveals during the NOVA open?
Or are we waiting a few month for those new Terminators and Custodes to be revealed.

>>96396649
I suppose it'll do. Alternatively, you could just measure the diameter of the Kratos turret. I'd love to try and make an old school Fellblade, which is mainly a Baneblade hull with a domed turret. The FW turret wouldn't fit the BB superstructure, but the Kratos one might. It even comes with a battle cannon and autocannon out of the box.

>>96396839
probably what contributed to his downfall. twice the pride, double the fall.

>>96396600
So whats the bet Pert got daemonhood by selling shitloads of IF and IW dead directly to the forge of souls. Seems more likely to me than Pert trying to consort with a full blown chaos god.

I suppose Lorgar could have given Peter turbo enough stolen Daemonic lore for him to figure it out but the question is would he actually do that?

>>96396472
Peterturbo thinks it's different and he wouldn't lie to himself.

>>96396788
>They fracture and go at one another once the big guy is gine
Tito was Konrad Curze??

>>96396870
Even if they retcon Vaahtorr into being a major player back then, I don't think he's got enough power to ascend daemon princes. That's like, the highest reward a chaos god can bestow

>>96396858
Terminators, Custard Tarts and also the new Martians. Hopefully the Aurox gets plastic too or The aux don't have a Rhino equivalent.

>>96396832
Its just super good with breachers now because the las cutters is stupid good now for how cheap it is. it got a 10 point reduction in cost, and does FOUR FUCKING DAMAGE in melee.
2 of them hitting, which as long as you dont roll a fucking 1 you are good, can breach a LR on a 3+ for 4 HP. 2 melee hits with that will core a land raider, not counting any ranged damage.

>>96391116
>Cancelled/repurposed models
What is Anon smoking?
>Looks
Jfc it's true, wtf.

>>96396890
The Forge of souls is routinely used to build daemons new mechanical bodies, thats literally the bread and butter of Vashtorrs soul contracts. You give him X amount of souls and he turns you into a kick ass cyber daemon.

Perts body and soul were wounded by Fulgrim during the attempted demonic sacrifice in angel exterminatus and the Primarchs are basically already daemons piloting custom made meat mecha. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances at play here.

Besides cyber daemon Perturabo sounds pretty cool.

>>96396910
>Jfc it's true, wtf.
Plz spoonfeed a retard, I don't know what to look up.

>>96396983
I looked up Kaedes first and found his art in the current liber. He has normal MK6 with tally marks. Compare with his model. Then I looked up Maun and he was a Master of Descent in 1e and has a fancy vox. For the 40k model Corax was rumored for a while looking more feral. Then we get >>96391068, who has Primarch style armor that is eerily similar to the Lions 40k armor.

>>96396832
>Melee antitank is an actual option now
>And all it took was a change in Vehicle Damage that rewarded multiple strikes instead of a big one
>And then turning the Glance-Pen system upside down, as to not make High Str hits have any better chance of Vehicle Damage: still 1/6
>And then have Chainfists not engage with said system via armourbane: no statuses - damage only
Making Antitank Melee viable is one thing. Shitting on antitank overall so that the bar is lowered all the way down to the lowest option is a whole different thing.
I like the first one, but not at the cost of the second one.

Think I've got the gist of it now?

>>96397050
To add to this Kaedes has a 3+ to this day. He supposed to be hated by the legion and in basic armor.

>>96397059
I think you've got it anon, I would ask you totry making the backpack engine thing a different colour than the rest of the metal tho.

>>96397078
I'm going to add in some iron and copper to the back soon, just wanted to get the main parts down. The details are fairly straightforward I think - light brown for the leather and wood, darker metal for the lasgun, a mix of steel and copper for some metal details.

>>96397050
I can see it. Though not the first time they've change stuff. Remember when Zephon BAablebrox went from MkIII in fluff to MkVI on the model?

>>96397090
Like the sound of that anon, you're gonna look great. Just remember to keep your colour use down for the sake of your sanity. Horde lists can wear you down if you don't get mass production down pat.

Always look for ways to decrease your time spent painting per model without compromising too much on quality.

What Legion does she play?

>>96391409
even on a 6'x4' board you're not going to see enough space inside the other guy's deployment zone to bring an entire unit down more than 9" away from any other model

the smallest unit you could bring in - one model on a 25mm base - would need to be at the center of a circle of at least 482mm diameter

where the fuck

do you think your opponent is going to leave a half-meter gap in his fucking deployment zone

you cockmongling moron

kys

>>96397141
>Theban sacred band
Ultramarines

>>96397059
>Thousand Sons at home

>>96397052

Most light to medium vehicles have 6hp or less, so they die to one melta pen. "Melee and half a dozen very particular guns only" is only really an AV14-all-round problem, although Marines spam the hell out of that so I can see why people are concerned.

I'm considering 12 of those servo-bots and a melta techpriest in a Termite, it's about 240pts to pop up, fire a blast melta and normal melta at the enemy artillery and then demand to be to be dealt with or it will do it again + charge with 22 S8 D2 attacks to wreck more vehicles or shooty infantry squads. Kind of flops against Kratos or dracosan spam, since those survive one melta hit, but at least they score with Comptroller 1 and have 24 T5 3+ 5++ wounds.

>leman russ annihilator (leman russ with twin lascannon turret) was developed in M37
>solar auxilia in M31 can take a leman russ with a twin lascannon turret

What the actual fuck?

>>96397330
Imperium forget
Space Yiff remember
Guard see Two Big Fenrisian Shafts and copy

>>96397330
You've got a 7 thousand year gap there, Anon, use some imagination.

I have a friend getting into Solar Aux. He's drawn to no rerolls and more straightforward scoring vs 40ks secondary deck. What advice would you give them? I only play marines. They have a large 3d printer and have printed a nid and eldar army so they aren't shy.

>>96394339

Got a Seeker sort of finished, but I'll need to be more careful with using the correct arms for him in future.
The other one is a headhunter that came out quite well.

How are you fellow DA enjoyers building your army list ?
I know Companions are good and fun to use, but what did you enjoy playing the most ?
I am tempted to have a go at the excindio and eventually bringing a mastodon to the field, but I want inspiration for the rest.

>>96397390
>I'll cut you hombre

>>96397390
I like the box magazine. The nu-phobos with the little sight looks way better thsn the stock phobos in the mkIII kit.

>>96397375
>them
>they
I refuse to give you advice until you stop misusing indefinite pronouns to refer to someone you personally know.

>>96397396
I usually start every list with a paladin. A legion champion tier centurion that still has officer of the line 2 seems too good to pass up on. Like to put all tacticals and despoilers in stormwing detachments to give them all master sergeant, having one model with WS 5 means your troops can beat up enemy troops without support leaving the rest of your army free to dismantle everything else.

Also in the process of building three different veteran squads with all the different disintegrator weapons, but that's because rule of cool.

>tanks without the Independent Fire rule (aka most tanks) can't shoot at multiple targets without all guns firing snap shots)

So if a Valdor Tank Hunter shoots its sponson gun at anything, all shooting on the tank becomes snap shooting since the sponson has an entirely seperate firing arc than the main gun that doesn't intersect with it? Is that right?

>>96397375
Copy the contents of the mini force coming out three times, add a drwcosan for each, then start adding tanks to taste/as needed for local lists.

>>96397464
No one cares

>>96397517
Correct, anon!!! Got a Malcador Infernus? Well, if you think "the main gun should be shooting at a blob in front of it while the side sponsons and pintle gun shoot at different targets," you'd be WRONG. Because they are firing at different targets than the main gun, the gunners all instantly become retarded and can't hit the side of a barn.

Remember anon, Goonhammer and Pardo said that this edition is "the best written edition yet!"

>>96397330
My money is on them wanting to squat certain things in 40k but still wanting to sell them through HH which is why we got what are ostensibly 40k only things like the pred annihilator getting retconned into existing in 30k. That and the very unfitting things like artillery pits for SA or chimera based stuff like trojans.

>>96397539
>No one cares
You cared enough to reply. I will continue my efforts to curb rampant faggotry in the use of the English language.

Has anyone tried modeling some Master Sergeants? Does anyone's list actually use them? They seem like a cool idea whose prime slot is always best used for something else.

>>96397517
>>96397548
Heavy flamer sponsons solve this issue, since snap shooting with a template weapon doesn't have any effect on it since it's a template. This does mean that the optimal sponson loadout for a Valdor Tank Hunter's single side sponson is a heavy flamer, which is...very odd, but whatever.

>>96397390
Votann want their bolter back, you thieving bigger.

>>96397548
The main gun of the malcador infernus fires a helstorm template. It does literally not give a fuck about being fired as snap shots, because it never has to roll to hit.

>>96397598

Firstly, that's a Mk2 bolter with an autobolter ammo box.
And secondly the Squats wanted a modern remake that wasn't a fucking embarassment, but I guess sometimes people don't get what they want?

>>96397583
>>96397607

Pretty sure they still need assault don't they? Do they get that? As to the best of my understanding, only the weird DG Poison Heavy Flamer does.

>>96397611
>Mk2 bolter
We call those "(nu) Phobos pattern". I do wonder what OG MkII bolters were suppose to look like. MkI is clearly the RT one and MkIII the 2e one. Was there a common bolter design between the two? I do wish FW had made those RT era hip fired blunderbusses with the big bayonets. I can't imagine GW ever bothering to remake anything cool from the past ever again, and even if they did make them, they'd be in the new scale, thus useless to me.

>>96397626
No? Weapons only need the assault trait to be used during Volley Fire, which is something completely different. A malcador infernus can split fire without any penalty.

>>96397464
Anon please stop shadow boxing the alphabet people who live in your head rent free.
>>96397375
Tell your friend auxilia are an army built on exchanging blood for victory. All your infantry is super squishy so he should be prepared to lose A LOT of men.

Las rifles are extremely fragile and should always be fielded in squads of 20. Veletaris are just as fragile but far better armed and can be fielded in 10 or 20 man squads.
Sentinels are pretty good. The Hermes in infantry tericos should be ran at range with scatter lasers for suppressing fire. Recon terico Hermes sentinels should be run with grenade launchers in outflank because implacable + firestorm basically gives you 4 S7 AP4 D2 shots per 21 point dude.
The Aethon can either be ran with a rocket pod and flamer for status spam or with a melta lance and Hunter killer missile array to try and tank hunt.
Russes are tougher than marine tanks but usually lower damage too, tank commanders want Vanquishers and flare shields, give everyone else anything but a volkite macro saker.
Malcadors can be run cheap with 4 multilasers and a battlecannon to bully infantry or expensive with 4 lascannons and a demolisher to bully tanks.
The Valdors bad.
The Malc Infernus can be funny in tank cohorts as area denial but should be otherwise avoided.
Ogryn kill anything in melee thats not WS5+ or a vehicle. Or a siege drill leviathan lol.
The aircraft are all pretty good but you can't build a list around them due to the new flyer rules.

>>96397626
No, assault just means you can fire it in volley fire. And remember, sponson weapons are always defensive, so they never snap fire when splitting off.

>>96397657
Feels like MkI could be good for melee, as the supporting hand would be protected behind the magazine, which would act as a crossguard

>>96397572
I was thinking of modeling one for my IW just to have one. Bionic leg, combat knife and a chainblade bayonet bolter. Just to fill the “no-nonsense NCO” stereotype.

>>96397607
Right, but if even ONE gun fires at a different target, ALL guns fire snap shots. Sure, the template weapon won't care, but if you bought SIDE sponson weapons with the expectation of shooting things on the SIDES, then unless they're flamers, they're going to be ineffective

>>96397626
>Complains about the rules.
>Picks the worst possible example to add legitimacy to his complaint because he doesn't ACTUALLY know the rules.
Every time.

>>96397720
No, you goddamned retard, the side sponsons can fire at things just fine since every weapon the malcador infernus is gonna be S6 or less and thus be defensive weapons.

>>96397713
I wish the bonus was a bit better so they'd be more utilitary. A master sergeant leading a strike force in the absence of a centurion sounds fun and fluffy

>>96397720
All sponson weapons are by default defensive and can splitfire at full ballistic skill you actual retard.

>>96397572
All my Veletaris Axe sections are getting master Sargents with power fists. 3 WS5 attacks per turn is a nice bonus and it lets them sucker punch Magi.

Anyone have ideas on how to attach a rocket launcher with the shoulders in the way?

>>96397720
You being an inbred retard who can't read or understand rules is not the fault of bad rules anon.

Sponson and pintle mounted weapons are always defensive, splitting fire only matters for the main gun. And basically all sponson weapons have a firing arc that allows them at the same one target as the main gun in front.

>>96397736
>>96397750
>>96397763
NTA, but the malcador infernus is a terrible example since it CAN fire all weapons at full ballistic skill while shooting at different targets, whereas something like a leman russ with a vanquisher cannon can't, because while the defensive weapons taken on the russ (so the pintle and possibly the hull guns if it's not a lascannon) will fire with full BS alongside the co-axial heavy stubber, the Vanquisher cannon itself will snap shoot because the defensive weapons are firing at a different target. Or going back to the Valdor Tank Hunter, any S6 or less sponson weapon and the pintle gun will fire at full BS, but the main gun will snap shoot if the side gun shoots at a side target and isn't a flamer. Much better examples of this rule being shit than the Malcador Infernus.

>>96397572

Not technically a Master Sarge, but Combat Veterans Prime techpriests are pretty similar since it's a single model unit. Either Cybernetica to let a squad score or Archimandrite to attach a 10/10/9/9 advanced stats sarge to an allied squad without debuffs, they're better than Chaplains, Overseers or the SoH Dark Emissary in that role and rather cheaper, albeit more fragile.

I'm considering making a couple out of Enginseers, but it's hard to do "cooler Enginseer" as distinct from a Magos. I can definitely hand out some meltaguns and antennae, at least.

>>96397807
you know how, anon.

>>96397807
Take em off, they look better without the shoulders anyway.

>>96397807
A cyclone missile launcher should sit right on top of the vent block, or you could leave the vent piece off and extend the cml's mount with plasticard.
Or have one half of the launcher ocer each pauldron and keep the sight block off.

>>96397824
What about that dynamic looking guy from the kill team kit?

>>96397816
I don't mind russes not being able to splitfire well honestly. The rules were even more strict in 2.0.

>>96397816
>be me, corporal jerry of the 9th Saturnyne Rams solar auxiliary cohort, 11th armored tercio, main gunner for a leman russ vanquisher
>commander shouts "GUNNER, AIM, TRAITOR PREDATOR, LEFT SIDE"
>aim turret at the stationary and exposed sons of horus predator, got a perfect shot lined up
>hull gunner shoots a heavy bolter burst at a lone tactical marine a couple dozen meters away
>commander shouts "NOOOO" as I suddenly go full retard and aim the gun upwards as I fire, missing wildly

Ah yes, "heresy is a narrative ruleset"

>>96397872
Im not any of the anons posting on the topic of split firing, but i think split firing rule is a great example of this edition being so horribly over worded.

GW went to all that effort to write all these fucking rules for how split firing is done at snap shots blah blah blah only at the end of the day to say.
"Oh except if its a defensive weapon, oh an all sponsons are defensive."
So like the only time this every fucking comes up i think is with russ tanks.

>>96397827
Oh this is goofy fun
>>96397839
Without them they just look like a generic mech unit to me but I may have to accept it
>>96397854
Hmm. I guess I could borrow from Armored Core and set it up so the missiles shoot up then come down like a javelin system

>>96397900
>shoot up then come down like a javelin system
That would be cool

>>96397900
yeah, they look really generic without the shoulders, even if anons think it looks better. Javelin it or stick it overtop the head.

>>96397878
Leman Russ turret gunners just get very distracted whenever the hull or pintle gunners fire at anything they're not aiming at, anon, they get very curious about what their comrades are firing at and it throws their aim off. This is because the Imperial Army only assigns the most retarded of gunners to leman russes, all the competent ones get assigned to malcadors and baneblade chasses.

>>96397891
"pintle" and "sponson" and "super-heavy" and "stable" and "independent fire", so many fucking multi-sectioning in this joke edition

>>96394339
where are those chainaxes from anon?

>>96397891
>The Malcador has a special rule to splitfire at full ballistic skill with all its weapons.
>The Infernus has a hellstorm template as its main weapon so it can't miss.
>The Valdor wants a lascannon on its single sponson so its never gonna splitfire.
>Superheavies can all splitfire at full BS with everything anyway.
It is just the Russ thst is effected yeah, and also every marine tank that isn't a super heavy and has more than one gun.

>>96397936
>Effects every marine tank
Except really not. Sponsons fire at full BS even if split because they count as defensive weapons, same with pintels.

One thing im not sure though, the "main gun" can fire at a target at full BS, but then if you wanna fire the rest of your weapons they have to snap shot....unless they are defensive weapons. right?

>>96397936
Where's the passage in the lore describing the Russ having retarded turret gunners whose aim becomes shit once any other crew fire a defensive weapon at a target they're not also shooting at?

>>96397539
>>96397673
Thank you both. Can't charge out of outflank though, so no firestorm right? Solid advice though.

>>96397946
>One thing im not sure though, the "main gun" can fire at a target at full BS, but then if you wanna fire the rest of your weapons they have to snap shot....unless they are defensive weapons. right?

Not quite right, anon. If the vehicle splits fire at different units amongst different guns AT ALL, then the defensive weapons can still fire at full BS, but any other weapons snap fire. That means that the MAIN GUN suddenly becomes less accurate once defensive weapons start splitting fire away from what the main gun is shooting at. It's retarded

>>96397916
Presumably the reason the Valdor can't splitfire is because the Neutron laser is such a needy bitch that if you ever even think of shooting anything with the sponson the power to Targetting immediately fails.

>>96397967
lol yeah that makes no sense jfc

>>96397967
That can't be right. Like, that can't be fucking correct. Someone check, I'm at work

>>96397967
Adding to the list of proposed house rules that the main gun fires at full BS and split fire from the main target is snap unless defensive, etc. Maybe has to be closest non vehicle, maybe not. Just needs to make sense.

>>96398002
DESU it sounds right, given all the other retardation in this edition and what it has to offer.

My tin foil hat theory is that originally they never planned for a 3rd ed, it was going to just be 2.5 ed, but then at some point proabbly mid way through production of 2.0 they realized that hh was popular and wanted to put it into the 3y cycle, right around the time they said it was considered a main line game, which is why the rules are such dog shit, un tested, and just bad.

>>96398002
it's correct, anon. Just checked my book.

Oh also guys, my TONK won best painted vehicle at our local event.

>>96398002
Nope, before you even get to shoot with any weapon you need to declare whether or not you're gonna splitfire.

If you decide to splitfire then All weapons that are not defensive weapons must now make snapshots.

>>96398043
NICE. why are you rich?

>>96397870

That kit looks great, I'll probably upgrade at least one of those guys, yeah. I do miss the old chunky enginseer with his huge power armour, though, a lot of the new skitarii-type guys feel a bit spindly for 30k Magi and their brick-shithouse statline.

>>96397936

It also kind of fucks over the larger automata, which are not vehicles and as such cannot split fire at all, as far as I understand it. The laser thanatar has a Pinning 2 sidearm as well as the laser from the Sicaran Venator, but he can't shoot anything that Pinning (2) actually affects while lasing vehicles, and the Brass Scorpion has to fire its Implacable Advance large blast demolisher cannon and its five heavy bolters at the same guy.

>>96398004
What defines a "main gun" anon?

>>96398029
But goonhammer says this change is okay, and even offers advice for how to adapt to the change! Look:

>Vehicles are allowed to split their shooting attacks, picking different targets for each gun. If they do this, however, any Battle weapons will have to Snap Fire. Defensive weapons can fire at full BS while splitting fire. Additionally, only Defensive weapons can be fired during reactions.

>This means it doesn’t work well to have something like a Predator with Lascannons in the turret (Battle weapon) and Heavy bolter sponsons (Defensive weapon). You could fire the Heavy bolters at some infantry and the Lascannons at an enemy tank but that would cause the turret Lascannons to Snap Fire. Instead, it’s best to go for either all Defensive weapons or for sponson weapons that can happily fire at the same target as the turret.

Just cut apart your existing vehicles if you gave them fluffy loadouts like sicaran with lascannon sponsons, easy!!!

>>96398058
>fucks over the larger automata
Oh damn it really does. It's 1e ordnance all over again. That needs to change.

>>96398052
Because i suffered a lot in high school and college and opted to study and then was smart enough to go into a field as an intern to get working experience to get hired right outta college and then live well below my means so i can enjoy painting plastic army men and going "BOOM BOOM PEWPEWPEPWPEWPEWPEWPEW" with my tank on the weekend with other grown ass adults.

>>96398060
The turret, or centerline mounted if there is no turret, weapon.

>>96398077
This sort of hysteria crops up literally every time Vehicle rules change. If you were not giving your tanks focused loadouts before why do you care about them still being inefficient now?

>>96398077
>goonhammer
Why are they still afloat? Their content is a worse (non) AI summary equivalent of on goings. They haven't had an original thought since inception. They clearly don't even play 30k.

>>96398115
They're a easy place to pick up 40k netlists because they're constantly reporting on the latest hotness in tournaments.

30k players don't give a shit about tournament meta as evidenced by the proportion of people fielding a primarch spartan struggle bus.

Ergo Goonhamner can't comprehend how the game is supposed to work.

>>96398078

In the scorpion's case I don't think it does anything to render it not a top tier unit, since not being a true superheavy of any kind means that you can cybertheurgy it, it it gets monstrous saves instead of none at all and it basically ignores Venators, Kratos and similar anti-Spartan units because it has 15W and EW1 instead of an armour value so it ignores the melta rule.

It's a real pain on the Thanatar though, which pays 75pts more than a Venator for an incredibly durable statline at T8 W10 (great) and a secondary weapon + anti-vehicle melee it basically can't use (meh). Even the regular Thanatar is likely to regret having both a Barrage main gun and a non-barrage secondary, and Darkfire Castellax can't use their bolters a lot o the time, but both of those are much cheaper so it's less of a pain.

>>96398138
Are dark fire castellax any good?

>>96398104
the hysteria is your mental illness for being a stupid faggot sucking the cock of trash tier rules writers who think heavy bolters on the sponsons firing somehow makes the lascannon turret not able to hit an enemy landraider as big as a barn. KYS asap

>>96397922
some Etsy shop

>>96396945
I never liked the Perty ascended thing. He seems so full of hate that he.could sumply just throw demons away just by watching them. I secretly hope that he will return one day as a man, not a demon.

>>96398153

I have absolutely no idea. They don't have Firestorm like their mauler cannon brethren, which makes their Volley worse, but 2x S8 AP2 D1-2 shots with Armour-Breaker 4+ isn't abysmal for 65pts, they'll chunk terminators, kill a few marines on the move and do decent damage to light vehicles. Cybertheurgy support is absolutely mandatory though, BS3 sucks unless you just want small units of them to inflict those Suppressive (2) checks on enemy shooty squads.

Big fuckoff units of mauler Castellax and/or Domitars both look like great zoning units, though - they have Implacable Advance + Firestorm + solid Pinning, so anything that gets within 12" eats a blizzard of S6 shooting, maybe takes a status and then gets charged if it looks feasible. 300 points of robot + Overcharged Reactors takes a huge chunk out of any Marine unit with a toughness value and can punch down the stragglers, and Doms especially can eat terminators alive for a similar cost.

Mech in general is a collection of really beefy and fun-looking units plus a lot of extremely annoying foibles of the army-building rules - adding magi to your squads makes them cowards, you have no Line-equivalent that moves faster than 6" and faction keyword fuckery means your transports are mostly worthless bricks that can't carry anything useful. Allying tac squads in rhinos or even an Interdiction Cadre tac blob in the prime slot feels like a waste of the whole affair, but might be a good call if rhino rushing is going to be this important. I'm personally looking at 10 sneaky Tacs + either Vigilator/Seekers or Librarian/Melta HHS as a DG allied det.

>>96398227
Fact checked and approved.

>>96398104
>you should give your tanks focused loadouts! Otherwise, it's inefficient!

Is the M1 Abrams inefficient for having a main cannon for busting other tanks and bunkers and 3 machine guns for anti-infantry firepower? Are you forgetting about the German tank destroyers in WW2 that kept getting swarmed by infantry until the Germans attached pintle machine guns to them, which didn't affect the performance of the main tank-killing gun?

Are you fucking retarded?

>>96398227
You're right, we should go back to the good old days of 2.0 where defensive weapons could only ever splitfire into the closest enemy infantry unit and only
A vehicle snapshotting with all but one of its weapons for having the audacity to actually want to move at full speed made perfect sense. We should Retvrn to those Halcyon days where everybody gave their lascannon predator lascannon sponsons anyway.

>>96398303
>it works in real life so it should work in the game too.

>>96398320
We should go back to the 1.0 days where this shit wasn't a factor because splitting fire was a thing vehicles were able to do at all times unless they were moving so quickly that the gunners can't get a bead on their targets, which makes more sense that either 2.0 or 3.0

>>96398348
Vehicles were not allowed to split fire at all in 1.0. Only vehicles with the power of the machine spirit rule or super heavies could.

Way to expose yourself as a fake grog and a nogames. Top kek.

>>96398348
There's a reason they made splitfire more limited anon.

this might sound self aggrandizing but how do you deal with winning too much?
it feels like I'm one of two people in my locals that uses any bit of strategy besides walking forward and shooting bolters
I play mech mainly and it feels like every opponent I have will complain no matter what I bring
>thralls are too strong, you shouldn't be able to bring them back and I should be allowed to beat you in combat with my veterans
>thallax can all take special weapons? that's too strong
>why do your vulturax hand out so many statuses to my tanks? that's broken
>ursurax have 3 wounds and and invuln? they're too tough!
and etc etc
it's like they just want me to bring 20 blobs of servo automata to every game and get run over

>>96398358
Hes not a fake Grog anon he just read the old 6th/7th ed rulebook just as badly as he read 2.0 and 3.0

>>96398344
Yes, anon. It's a fucking NARRATIVE system. This is NOT 40k. GW themselves have repeated multiple times that HH (even 3.0) is a NARRATIVE GAME SYSTEM. Therefore, what works IRL (like the basic tank design feature of giving it a machine gun to defend against infantry) should apply in game, because as a narrative game system, we expect things to have a narrative purpose and not be completely fucking retarded, like not giving a tank an anti-personnel weapon to "be more focused on killing tanks" or not giving a tank any AT because "it's focused on killing infantry." You know, the things that IRL would cause a tank to be retardly inefficient on the scale of wars and campaigns.

>>96398376
Same thing. People used to be literate, unlike the fucking zoomers infesting 40k lately.

The mk2 crewman and tactical have slightly different helmet designs

>>96398358
NTA but when was the change made when vehicles could no longer split fire well? I remember as a wee lad seeing lore from 4th edition stating that loyalist chapters preferred to outfit their predators with lascannon turrets and heavy bolter sponsons to keep them flexible like RL tanks, can't imagine they had rules at the time that made it retarded to do so ingame.

>>96398373
>it's like they just want me to bring 20 blobs of servo automata to every game and get run over
Thats exactly what they want anon. People who bitch like this don't actually wanna play a game against an opponent they wanna role-play their favourite black Library slop novel.

Or they just have no fucking idea how the mechanicum work and are too lazy to bother finding out.

Did you play against them in 2.0 as well? Where they still bitching then too?

>>96398396
Vehicles were never have been able to split fire at least since like, 3rd edition. Only certain vehicles with special rules could. The fluff you read as a kid had no real relation to the game. I mean, the lore about devastator squads always said those preferred to mix weapons as well for flexibility, which literally nobody did because spamming one weapon was way more efficient.

>>96398373
>>96398407

Glad to see someone's doing good with the mechboys at least, I haven't gotten to play much with them yet.

My first game did indicate that if we COULD bring several blobs of 20 servo-automata people might well complain about those too - my squad of 8 + basic enginseer that I took to repair my krios ran at a unit of 15-ish tacs, lost one, killed four and routed the unit, even after I fluffed the Guide roll. For 10ppm, those guys are mean if you can't snipe their boss out, definitely meaner than Thralls.

>>96398303
>>96398344
>>96398378
It doesn't worklike that IRL, you're the retard.

Tanks designed with multiple guns were replaced by single main cannons and a few machineguns for a reason.
Experience showed that in practice tanks do one of 2 things in combat:
1.trying to kill infantry, mainly with explosive rounds, and rarely with their aux machine guns (to save ammo or to avoid harming friendlies)
2.trying to kill other armor, in which case they'll use exclusively their main cannon (with AP ammo if available)

Turns out it's hard to coordinate 4-5 dudes inside a cramped space with limited visibility, or there's no way to do more than one thing at a time.

In 40k, vehicles firing a demolisher cannon should never be able to do anything else in the same turn if it was realistic.

>>96398373
Sound like the people you play against have a serious case of skill issue. Mechanicum is the most fair it has even been, and I say this as a marine fag.

>>96398425
>the lore about devastator squads always said those preferred to mix weapons as well for flexibility, which literally nobody did because spamming one weapon was way more efficient.

You know, I'd honestly like to see a ruleset that makes that viable without being something like kill team. Not sure how that could work, honestly, but I'm sure there's a way

>>96398407
>Did you play against them in 2.0 as well? Where they still bitching then too?
yes, constantly too
I used to give them tactical advice, explained how the army worked in depth and how to counter deploy and target prioritization but 9/10 times they just nod along and the next game we play, they're back to complaining about how stupid the blind rule was
I've had to explain to them that I literally cannot afford to buy more models just to tone down my lists so they can find the next thing to complain about

>>96398431
servo automata used to a terror last edition when they could all take servo arms and bash people's heads in
it is kind of insane how easy it is for mech to instantly repair a tank back to full hp though

>>96398446
You're just reinforcing why a tank without any AP/without any AT would be a retarded idea, anon, despite being more "efficient" ingame. An all las predator should at least have a pintle combi bolter for emergency AP duties, a malcador infernus should at least have lascannon sponsons for emergency AT duties, etc, even if it's not the most "efficient" for a single role.

>>96398453

They have that by default this edition, actually, and they're tougher than Thallax with their 5++. If mech ever get a detachment that has retinue slots other than the incredibly mid Archimandrite apex I might run three squads of them as my scoring.

As is, I'm considering deep striking 11 of them with a techpriest or arcuitor in a termite, just as a cheapish backline chaos squad. That many S8-9 D2 attacks will fold almost any vehicle that isn't 14/14/14, and put lots of statuses on one that is, and between the termite and the priest the squad has two meltas to do something on the turn it arrives.

>>96398378
You want just enough "realism" in the game to actually win this argument and absolutely no further because the moment we start talking about the narrative presented in the 30k books we need to accept that 3+ armour saves are completely over valued and most heavy weapons should ignore them.

But that means muh heckin tacticals die like pitches the second they step out of a Rhino which feels bad. So we have current saves.

Vehicles being able to splifire all their weapons with no downsides feels like shit to play against so we don't do that. Its barely tolerable on super heavies.

If every tank could splitfire everything everyone would just take a Havoc launcher/multilaser on all their vehicles and force every infantry unit on the board to test for status every turn.

Which would suck shit to play so we don't do that. Creating an environment which isn't solved is more important than perfectly obeying 30k lore or cleaving to real world practicalities that 30k readily ignores in favour of fun or drama.

>>96398505
>Vehicles being able to splifire all their weapons with no downsides feels like shit to play against so we don't do that. Its barely tolerable on super heavies.
To be fair its already like that with most vehicles
And on some its really negligable
For example anything firing a blast at snap shot in the marine arsonal is kinda of meaningless.
You still hit on a 5+, and then you still only scatter on a d6 which means if you are shooting a vehicle, unless you roll a 6 and a scatter directoly to the shortest side, your still gonna clip a vehicle with your main gun.
Then all the other weapons on SM vehicles are sponsons or pintel mounted so it wont matter any way they fire at full BS.

DESU the entire split fire rule is just more of the same shit this edition has. 3.0 is an edition of illusion, 3.0 has a lot of shit that seems to matter, but in actuality does not.

>>96398492
lacking ap2 means it can't really punch up as well as they used to but I can see where you're going with this
but you wouldn't be able to charge out of deep strike so it feels as if you're better off just putting multimeltas on thallax and slapping those down

>>96398488
The difference is that HH and 40k are fucking terrible at modeling those emergency duties. The German tank destroyers discussed earlier (the StuG) had a machine gun attached to fend off small squads of infantry so it could either get them to retreat or buy itself time to retreat away from them and was occasionally used as a support weapon when German commanders deployed the STuG like a infantry support weapon (which the vehicle wasn't designed for, but the commanders making these decisions were either retarded or had no proper tanks to use for that role).

In HH or 40k, however, a single piddly machine gun isn't going to do that. It's going to maybe score a wound that the infantry won't care about and they'll proceed about their business as if nothing happened, unless other machine guns and units join in.

>>96398488
The point is that they don't do both at the same time or at different targets, ever.

>>96398540
Continuing, the same now goes for things like adding lascannon sponsons on anti infantry vehicles for emergency AT. Sure, back when a single lascannon could threaten a tank and possibly blow it up in a single shot, yeah, that could accurately model how that sort of "emergency" AT could work? Now? You do a piddly 2 damage to the enemy tank IF you sat still, 1 damage otherwise, and even a rhino has 4 hull points now. Big whoop.

>>96398540
So what you are refering to, IS actually represented in the game, but its only on specific weapons.

For example having a single machine gun to fend off infentry does exist in the game, its the mutli laser with suppress 1 on it. Thing is, it only really exists for the guards. Personally i really wish SM got access to something besides the Havoc launcher like a multi laser for suppress 1 as well or make their combi bolter on the pintal suppress 1.

So what you you describing IS infact in the game, just not in the SM arsenals.

>>96398373
I feel you anon, I ran into the same problem of people having absolutely no strategy or positioning and then just bitching about whatever I brought. At first I tried to balance it out by bringing worse and worse units (which made them complaint about my legion), then playing with no legion trait (which made them complain about my units), then no legion trait and bad units, and these mfs would still find something to complain about (whether it be "underhanded" strategy like not bringing a giant expensive melee squad or blaming their terrible rolls).

I just ended up teaching my friends how to play properly and the game became fun again but I don't play against randoms anymore because very quickly you realize most Warhammer players have a very specific concept of how the game should be played and what's "fair", and more often then not it involves a stupid Spartan death Star driving to the middle of the table and trying to club you over the head.

>>96398488
Anon we've already established the malcador infernus absolutely can splitfire with lascannons without penalty in this very thread, why the fuck are you talking about it again.

Even ignoring that a giant fucking flamer with a Back carriage carrying combustible fuel to power it is a fucking retarded idea from so many different axis that not bringing lascannons doesn't even come close to the greatest impracticality with the design.

And even disregarding THAT, if you're fielding a giant rolling flamethrower on treads and your first thought for sponson mounts isn't even more flamethrowers then you're missing the vibes of the setting entirely.

>>96398540
nta, but what you describe is why I've never liked any version of the 40k ruleset, except KT for simpler skirmishes.

40k has always been about smashing toys together with little care for positioning or effects and that stuff. Late 8th ed onwards has become even worse with the MtG gotcha combo metagame.

>>96398373
To be fair mech is really good right now, only really beaten out by custodes in terms of general all around power. I think the only thing in mech that does not have an invuln is thralls and their tanks, but they all get access to flare shields IIRC.

If oyu feel bad just try running your shit as allies rather then a main faction.

>>96398583
Anon...

>>96398583
>a giant fucking flamer with a Back carriage carrying combustible fuel to power it is a fucking retarded idea

>>96398453
If people bitch about your army being OP when it really isn't... offer to swap each other's armies for a game or 2.

If it's actually OP, they'd win. Otherwise they just sucj/don't know how to play.

>>96398576
>Personally i really wish SM got access to something besides the Havoc launcher like a multi laser for suppress 1 as well or make their combi bolter on the pintal suppress 1.

No, different factions are allowed a different faction identity.

The reason marines get a stunning pintle mount is so they can dodge overwatch for their melee units.

The reason aux get a suppressing pintle mount is so they can weaken enemy shooting to better protect their infantry.

Both can get heavy flamers as an emergency tool if all else fails.

>>96398583
he doesn't know... he is unaware

>>96398537

I think it's a sidegrade to the traditional thallax deep strike squad. 11 bots + melta/cybertheurgy boss is 180pts with cyber-familiar, six thallax with four multimeltas is about the same, +10pts on either for sarge/cortex controller/melee weapon if you want them. Termite makes the servobots + transport about as expensive as the 9 thallax 6 multimelta squad, which is better for terminators and heavy vehicles, but easier to kill, lacks Line 1 equivalent and can't melee, so it's worse for artillery car parks where you can fire the termite blast melta + priest melta at different targets, maybe kill 2-3 tanks and then threaten the same on future turns when you can shoot + melee unless they clean the entire 24W squad + transport up.

>>96398592

Thralls get the 6+ FNP in lieu of armour or invuln, so they still have something. Flare shield is only Triaros/Karacnos/Macrocarid, and the Macrocarid is worthless because all it can transport is servitors and Macrotek priests so you can't put Myrmidons or any kind of melee arcana techpriest in it, and both servitors and macroteks want to be outside the tank to buff + repair it anyway.

>>96398579
I'm at that last stage with my night lords in 3e
>no way of forcing statuses
>no legion specific units
>just tacticals, veterans, rhinos and a couple of dreads
people still complain
the worst part is that I usually only play with friends
we're super jovial during the game but I can tell it's undercut by a simmering saltiness and then when we're tallying up score they'll start complaining

>>96398592
>I think the only thing in mech that does not have an invuln is thralls and their tanks
the funny thing is, even the tanks can have invulns but I digress
allying might do something but it doesn't fit the fluff of my armies at all and I can already tell someone will say that I'm cherrypicking good units from both

>>96398632
offered that multiple times, they tell me mech is too complicated to learn and refuse

>>96398601
>>96398625
Anon I know the Crocodile happened but things can be retarded and still be real.

>>96398583
>a giant fucking flamer with a Back carriage carrying combustible fuel to power it is a fucking retarded idea from so many different axis

This was one of the most effective tanks in WW2, anon.

>>96398601
>>96398625
>>96398680

IT'S FUCKING REAL???? AND IT WAS EFFECTIVE???

>it's British

Oh, of course an insane fucking concept like this was cooked up by the British, now it's not surprising at all

>>96398680
Wait. Really? I always thought the Churchill was a complete piece of shit and assumed that carrying a giant barrel of fuel behind it would not help things.

>>96398697
it was but engrish anons gotta cope and pretend they mattered during the war

>>96398680
>>96398625
>>96398601
I cannot fucking believe the Infernus was the most practical Malcador variant all along.

>>96398680
>>96398694
Not to mention that the Flame thrower was one of the most effective and terrifying weapons in the entire war. Literally made germans and japan piss themselves and surrender before the fight even started because they did not wanna get roasted alive.

Turns out fireball is just as fucking effective now, as it was then, and as it was 2000 years go.

>>96398694
>>96398697
The Churchill/Sherman Cocodrile tanks worked fine in their time against german defences, and with air/artillery superiority.
Once WW2 was over it was abandoned for the same reason the Stuka or other designs: it only worked if you were winning. With a peer enemy it was to vulnerable. One mortar and it was over.

>>96398680
Nta but it was one of the most effective flame tank design because it still kept the main gun and was a churchill tank unlike every other one, the trailer was just one of the things it had going for it. If you look at all the others they had to get danger close to bunkers or do nothing.

>>96398043
Lmao it has an erection

>>96398725
effective when deployed in the right situations. pretty sure the US used it during Iwo Jima which helped them in a huge way.

>>96398043
hell yeah
did you actually paint the underside like a good boy?
also post other entries

>>96398723
yeah what a victory laurel WW2 is for the US what with clearing the way for socialism and communism in europe, corporatism in the US and globalism in general.

speaking of flame tanks its criminal the hellhound never got ported into militia/aux

>>96398768
This but unironically, FDR was based.

Also, reminder that "Great Crusade" comes from Eisenhower's speech to the troops on D-Day

>>96398794
Fug, forgot pic

>>96398790
I really want the infernus. It's infuriating that militia don't get the fun macador variants. And now it's no longer a LoW so you can't just take it anyway. It should have never been a LoW to begin with, but still.

>>96398790
As an aurox variant it would be fire.

>>96398822
We need the Aurox in plastic first, GW don't even sell it in resin anymore ans even if they did I'm not paying resin prices for a Rhino.

>>96398867
I predict it's one of the next things coming out. Just a hunch.

>>96398655
>offered that multiple times, they tell me mech is too complicated to learn and refuse

If they are too retarded to even know how an army works, how are they gonna beat it?

>>96398583
>a Back carriage carrying combustible fuel
It's better than having all that fuel inside of the tank, where any good hit will just turn the whole thing into a torch. If the trailer gets hit and the fuel blows up, the tanks will be unaffected and can continue as is.
>>96398697
Churchill was well armoured and the flamethrower variant kept the main gun, allowing it to fire both 75mm shells and fire.
>>96398739
>same reason the Stuka or other designs
Flamethrower tanks were constructed well into the 60s. We just invented other ways of projecting fire to make them obsolete. Dive bombers were made obsolete by improved air-defences, guided bombs and jet fighters able to make similar strikes without having the entire plane built around one concept.
>One mortar and it was over.
How so? For one, it's not easy to hit a tank with a mortar or even artillery, unless it's guided. Even if you destroy the trailer, all you did was deplete fuel for the flamethrower. The Churchill still had a normal tank gun on the turret.

>>96398759
Yeah painted it black and thats it lol.
Nah i dont have the other photos of what was entered

>>96398919
Tanks are usually resistant to anti-infantry mortar grenades, but one landing next to the trailer was easy, and made it instantly just a possibly stuck bad tank.
>Flamethrower tanks were constructed well into the 60s
And barely used. Even without the trailer they were too vulnerable. Lots of fuel is bad news when RPGs became common

>>96398881
God I hope so, getting the Aurox in plastic would make 10 man veletaris squads a bit more viable.

>>96398373
Coming from a guy who loses most of his games that's not your fault or responsibility. They just need to cope.

>>96398794
In their meetings FDR & Stalin would make fun of Churchill to his face. He'd seethe, go home, and write about it in his diary. Of course the English love a loser.

>>96398994
>and barely used

yeah okay charlie

>>96399060
Churchill deserved to get bullied harder.

So let me get this straight.
We have Scorpius, Hyperios mounted on rhinos, and whirlwinds (ligma)?
Is there any other missile/rocket tank I should know about?

>>96398725
it was never effective and literally nothing you said even resembles earth's history.

Fire was so ineffective it was basically never used by the military. The U.S. bombers did a test mission dropping I think 870,000 gallons of NAPALM onto a small defended garrison area in western france to see if it would somehow defeat the fixed bunkers, they lost several bombers and men dead, even with 1000 bombers pouring napalm on the area, exactly zero of the large guns were incapacitated and the germans described the napalm as only nothing more than a mild irritant as if it lands even an inch away it does nothing and if a tiny bit hit a soldier he'd slap it off his body and survive.

It was the HE explosion drops that actually terrified the soldiers - what with the being infinitely more effective than fire and actually capable of dealing structural damage to things.

>>96399292
The sugma

>>96399296
Humans have an instinctive aversion to being burned alive anon.

>>96399292
Sicaran Arcus if you're only counting marine tanks. Oh, and the Arquitor/Sabre one

>>96399303
no, they literally do not, you fucking retard. A child will naturally grab a hot stove or stick their hand into a pretty campfire if not watched. And a flamethrower, being a slow moving, easily visible, easily avoided, easily shot, short range unit, was always simply less scary than a man with a rifle.

German armies that surrendered to the west intentionally did it only late in the war and purely because there was no food, no fuel, no ammunition and they knew that they only had two choices: surrender to rapist russian rats or surrender to superior capitalist american gods who don't torture or rape their PoWs. They obviously chose the latter as soon as they had no excuse not to.

>>96399296
>>96399316
>this retard can’t into the efficacy of flamethrowers in the Pacific
>or Vietnam

>>96399315
>saber
Is there a saber variant with rocket artillery? Could be cool

>All these wanna be veteran tank commanders still can't answer why if a pintle mount so much as accidently shoots one(1) round the main gunner forgets how to use a targeting computer and just eyeballs it
Truly peak tg

>>96398585
How would you fix this?

>>96399324
the army itself never used flamethrowers or napalm bombing after it failed them in europe instantly when they tried it, you are literally a stupid child.

>>96399296
Hey anon what battle are you talking about? Is it the dresden bombing campaign that killed twenty five thousand people in a couple days? Most of which suffocated on smoke caused by the rampant firebombing?

>>96399337
because if the gunner is up at the pintle they're aiming the main gun with their feet? it's literally obvious? are you stupid?

>>96399329
Well, it's the Arquitor, which is just a saber sriving in reverse, but yes.

>>96399337
Because of balance.

>>96399356
>battle

>>96399355
You're the retard who's incapable of understanding how fires and flame retardant materials work anon. We've had this conversation before when you tried to claim children could be immersed in nalpham and be fine when it turned out your only example had burns on 30% of her body, needed over 30 surgeries and spent several years in a hospital.

>>96399370
an arquitor is massively bigger than a saber, anon

>>96399391
I'm trying to figure out which allied warcrime he's referring to then, does that make it better?

>>96399370
I'd say the aquitor is a reverse sicaran actually. Now let us fight to the death.

>>96399356
dresden was not napalm or flamethrowers, retarded fucking child. The british firebombing raids used white phosphorous on wooden buildings. It had exactly zero effectiveness against actual armies, but a church made out of wood and filled with civilians, sure.

>>96399355
340,000 tons of napalm dropped on the Vietnamese disagrees, you fucking idiot

>>96399426
and zero of that in actual battle. It's entirely for attacking churches and trees, hence why every army on the entire planet immediately abandoned the use of flamethrowers after it failed in ww2.

>>96399355
>the army itself never used flamethrowers or napalm bombing after it failed them in europe instantly when they tried it, you are literally a stupid child.
what is Nam using more napalm then god used sulfur on Sodom and Gomora for 1000

>>96399435
>used to clear emplacements in both Korea and Vietnam
>not used in battle
You’re actually fucking retarded lmao

>>96399435
>Napalm was never used in battle.
What fucking revisionist history are you living in?

>>96399454
it sure is funny how every squad of soldiers in the last 70 years doesn't include even one flamethrower. They must work so great to literally never be used at all!

>>96399461
>>96399459
notice you can't post any pictures of military soldiers being napalmed. It only happened in Tropic Thunder, not in real life.

>>96399465
They wroekd great at clearing out bunkers and saw extensive use all across the eastern and pacific front where both the germans and the Japanese dug in and had extensive bunker networks.

We then developed better ways at clearing out bunkers so it became obsolute.
Its the same reason we dont fucking use bolt action rifles any more retard we found better ways to kill each other, but the flamethrower at its time was a highly effective weapon for what it was designed to do.

>>96399420
>Fire was so ineffective it was basically never used by the military.

Then was it the british and American civilian aviation industry that dropped all those bombs on Dresden anon? The bombs that according to the local police destroyed the Wehrmacht's main command post in the Taschenbergpalais, 63 administration buildings, the railways, 19 military hospitals, 19 ships and barges, 640 shops, 64 warehouses, 39 schools, 31 stores, 31 large hotels, 26 public houses/bars, 26 insurance buildings, 24 banks, 19 postal facilities, 19 hospitals and private clinics including auxiliary, overflow hospitals, 18 cinemas, 11 churches and 6 chapels, 5 consulates, 4 tram facilities, 3 theatres, 2 market halls, the zoo, the waterworks, and 5 other cultural buildings as well as burning down over 100,000 homes and damaging 136 factories?

Fire is an extremely effective weapon when you're using it on Civilians. Flamethrowers are not very useful IRL though you're right about that.

>>96399356
>>96399420
Based and 14th-pilled.

>>96399471
You can't post any pictures of people getting Napalmed because its a fucking blue board retard.

>>96399471
Alright this is bait
G8 b8 r8 8/8 m8.

>>96399471
>uh you don’t have a ready supply of pictures of people burning to death, I win!
I will again reiterate that you’re a revisionist retard lmao

Good generic unit to make with just 5 extra bodies?

>>96399520
Augur Squad.

>It's Amerifat posting hours.
>The Horus Heresy General.
>Look inside.
>Arguments about "warcrimes" committed during WW2 and the Vietnam war.

>>96399520
Seconding an augur squad

>>96399535
Care to post something constructive to the thread then, you whiny sack of shit?

>>96399520
Auger squad is pretty tight, but one of the specialist veteran squads is also very cool. Or a destroyer assault swuad for maximum kitbashing.

>>96399535
There's one autistic retard who throws a fit every time you mention flamethrowers because he's convinced marines should be immune to them in spite of an entire legion very famously using flamethrowers to great effect both before, during and after the Horus Heresy.

>>96399554
Bro if anything flame throwers on the table top are HIGHLY nerfed compared to them in the books. Like every fucking time a marine gets torched with a flamer its like

"The roaring wall of flames roared toward marcadius with the force of a whirlwind, dodging to the side at the last moment. Yet his battle brothers were to late. Lutitcus was engulfed in a bathing stream of molten promethium. the seals on his armor cracking and splitting open as the paint dripped from his cerimite armor, his flesh boiled inside running from his broken seals like molten wax, the screams from his dying breath washed out but the roaring deluge of molten death. Another moment longer and soon his cermite plate was reduced to slag, and lutiticus was no more then a pile of chared bone and and melted cerimite...."

Flamers in game: You feel quite balmy.

>>96399411
>>96399414
Whoops got them mixed up. But yeah. If you want rockets in the superheavy slot you need the PRAETOR ARMORED ASSAULT LAUNCHER but I haven't looked at superheavy rules yet so I'm not sure if you can even take this in 3.0 (or any edition for that matter)

>>96399597
>tfw Brother Davidicus didn't dodge in time and is now a puddle that the land raider we just charged out of is driving through
rip to a real one...

>>96399625
And yet fucking in game they suck so much ass.
The only flame throwers that feel decent are the dark angels plasma ones but you pay WAY to much for them.

>>96399618
The Praetor is on the Auxilia Legacy document. Sadly its kinda shit.

>>96399618
It's in legacies.

It's a shame it's always been pure dogshit in-game, the model is so kino

>>96399632
The auxilia tank that started this stupid argument is S6 AP4(3) and D2. Only like 200 points too.

GW just seem rather afraid of autohitting AP3, not afraid enough to avoid giving it to saturnine terminators tho.

>>96399659
>Those stats.
WTF thats just a worse basilisk?

>>96399660
Oh yeah im talking like flamers on regular dudes.
The infernus is bonkers, hellstorm AP4 for 205 points Ordinance(ap)
Its really good.

>>96399632
Meanwhile, Saturnines get AP3 flamers as sidearms.

>>96399678
Its why the saturnine base load out is the best and their beast wepaon is that fucking flame thrower

>>96399664
It's absolutely mind blowing that you can easily get two basilisks for the same price as a praetor launcher and get two 5" blasts that are literally better at killing everything lmao. The only point in favor of the praetor is pinning (2) and the slightly bigger blast, but no way in hell is that worth 300 goddamn points (and a LoW slot)

Augur squad it is

>>96399734
Which thats not even worth it either because here is the ball buster of it
Artillery command squad (get -3 to your scatter roll) 65 points
Artillery tercio(Increase the pinning value by 1)
2x Basilisks 240 points
305 points 2 large blast S10 Pinning 2 D2 shots that have board range vs 72"

>>96399739
Make sure somebody gets a special weapon. And put some scopes on dopes, have a bunch of tech nerds operating

>>96399806
fresh bread
>>96399806
free the tank gunners

>>96399485
>flamethrowers are not very useful IRL

The men who fought in Burma may disagree with you HEAVILY.

>>96399667
Flamers are good when you can volley fire with them. Get them on terminators or Castellax or sentinels and they do work because you can double tap with them.

If you can't volley fire with thrm they're not worth it.

>>96399799

What's a good special weapon to give those guys anyhow?

>>96399618
love when the assault vehicle isn't an assault vehicle

Now that the dust has settled, do you like the pusil or the lighting cannon?

>>96395772
You should only read esoteric knowledge
found within ffg rpg books and booklets
>>96396945
Maybe the primarchs were demon princes all along, just uh, autistic? But on more serious note, Perts turning into a demon prince would align bit better with previous iteration of chaos undivided worship aka worshipping the chaos itself not just all major powers.