Thread 96514391

>Party fighting monster in cave
>Hey DM are there any stalactites on the ceiling I can shoot to make them fall on the monster?
>Party fighting invisible enemy
>Hey DM is there any flour or other powder around I can use to throw at them?
>Party fighting flying enemy
>Hey DM is there a blanket or something lying around I can throw on them to weigh them down?
How about using the tools in your toolbox to solve the problem instead of asking me to magic up a solution?

Your players are doing it right and - if your session attitude mirrors your posting - you are doing it wrong.

>>96514391 (OP)
I feel sorry for your players, because you sound like one of those faggots who only ever lets Wizard players have any fun. God forbid anyone else try to come up with solutions to problems that aren't just casting a cheat-code magic spell.

Thank goodness your examples are all fake bullshit that never actually happened because that would require friends first.

>>96514391 (OP)
Stalagtites can be found in any cave, using the terrain isn't at all a bad thing.
Most of those toolbox abilities are pretty useless if you can't see what you're fighting - though you're in your right if they're nowhere near a kitchen or stockade of some sort. Same deal with the blanket, it depends on the surroundings.

>>96514391 (OP)
Resourcefulness is to be rewarded, it shows the players are engaged and thinking about the situation.
Might as well just play a video game if interacting with the world isn't allowed.

I also feel sorry for your players because you sound like a total prick.

>>96514391 (OP)
I mean, what was in their toolbox? Did they carry magic vision goggles?

>>96514629
Glitterdust
Acid Flask or Alchemist's Fire
Lantern oil
Most anything in your inventory can be used to reveal an invisible creature. If you have flour in your inventory, use it, but don't ask your DM to make a sack of flour magically appear in your inventory or surroundings. And stop playing "mother may I" just fucking do it and throw the DM a curveball.

Obvious bait and you're retarded if you fell for it.

>>96514448
>Stalagtites
Are you trying to make a collective portmanteau for stalactite and stalagmite or did you manage to use one word to misspell two words at the same time?

>can be found in any cave
OP's use of DM implies D&D implies fantasy so Earth's geological processes need not apply, but as on Earth plenty of caves don't have those conditions and consequently don't have stalactites or stalagmites, basic prior knowledge suggests that not all caves in a fantasy setting have to have them either.

>>96514391 (OP)
>>Party fighting monster in cave
>>Hey DM are there any stalactites on the ceiling I can shoot to make them fall on the monster?
I dunno maybe, but if there is the amount of damage you'd need to do to it to make it fall would be more than you'd do dropping it onto the enemy, so why not just attack them directly?
>>Party fighting invisible enemy
>>Hey DM is there any flour or other powder around I can use to throw at them?
viable tactic I've seen used a gajillion times, whether it's dungeon dust, sand, dirt, etc
>>Party fighting flying enemy
>>Hey DM is there a blanket or something lying around I can throw on them to weigh them down?
why the fuck would there be a blanket? why do you think a blanket would do anything to a flying enemy dangerous enough to threaten you? if you can't hit them with a pole weapon, why do you think you could throw a blanket at them?

2:1, pretty good ratio of rando ideas to try and get shot down

>>96514391 (OP)
The environment is also part of the toolbox you tard.

>>96514391 (OP)
All of that sounds completely fine.

>>96514696
Asking about what's around isn't even remotely the same as asking the GM to just give you the tools you. Most fights don't take place in an empty, featureless white room, and thinking about whether there might be something useful around is something players should do.

>>96514774
>Obvious bait and you're retarded if you fell for it.
This.

I mean, fuck, how are people responding to this sincerely?

>>96514999
They aren't.

>>96514808
While true, how would the players know the cave didn't have stall-ack! Tites if they didn't ask?
Even if the GM was using a battlemap, battlemaps don't show the ceiling.

>>96514999
Because there are players and GMs who really don't like it when people try to do things that aren't explicitly described in the rules. There was a time when another player in my group tried to argue that my level 6 mechanic with the robotics theme in Starfinder shouldn't be able to create RCXDs (literally just tiny remotely controlled cars with bombs), because there were no such machines in the game's item list.

>>96514640
>everything I don't like is an AI jew overlord
Brought to you by the makers of
>every meme you like is actually a psyop
and
>russian collusion!

>Hey DM I've got this HILARIOUS character idea for your game
Shut the fuck up
-B-But it's just a game bro-
Shut the fuck up.

>Party given job to sneak into bandit-controlled fort and assassinate bandit chief
>Come up with good idea to create distraction to draw bandits out
>Come up with retarded idea to do this by lighting fire 300ft from fort in sight of bandits
>Somehow don't get caught by lucky rolls, some bandits sent out of fort to handle fire while rest stay in fort now on alert
>Players shit their pants and insist all the bandits should leave fort to put out fire and why are they alerted to us now?
>I explain fires don't light themselves in the wilderness and it's an obvious sign of people nearby
>Players grumble and decide to scale fort walls in plain sight of now alerted bandits on walls
>Fail stealth rolls and get shot to death scaling walls
>Players shit their pants again
It's baffling. It's like they come up with good ideas but the most asinine methods of achieving them and INSIST they should work to the contrary of all logic and common sense.

>>96514391 (OP)
What's the problem?

>>96514831
No, if they use the environment creatively, I grant a bonus to the roll so it's always better than attacking directly.

>>96514999
You've never seen a shitposting thread? lol

>>96514391 (OP)
b8
herbs

>>96514999
These guys just reply to themselves with impunity. Since that fucking retard RAPEAPE disabled the poster count, it's no longer totally trivial to report samefagging like it used to be. And there's always been enough genuine idiots to float a troll thread with a little help from OP.

>>96515977
What else are you going to do on tg, dumb fuck? This is the designated shitposting board.

>4/5 Players send me their Character Idea BEFORE Session 0
>Player Number 5 does not even ask if the Species he want to play is in the homebrew setting
>Expects me to make the Background for HIS Character
>Needs some Le funny Sidekick, also without talking to me about that
>Completely forgets about Le funny Sidekick after literally two Sessions
>Barely engages in anything outside of combat and if he does has to interrupt other players
>Even out of game he never helps with anything and is more of an obstacle when finding a date for sessions

>Players 4 and 3 also rarely interact with anything
>character 4 is plain as hell and has one gimmick "I was raised by dwarves!" the character 3 is super fancy but the player forgets about any of this 90% of the time
>No realy there have been more times when me or another player reminded 3 of being fancy then him remembering on his own
>these two chucklefucks always cooperate to discourage any creative plans "What a stupid Idea, that will never work!"

At first I was conflicted if I should just something like "Me and the dice are the ones deciding what happens, so you don´t know if that works" but after some minor drama with 5 involving 4 I just thought "Fuck this".
We will have one last Session next Month and I´ll end the campaign/put on stop forever

Meanwhile Players 1 and 2 actually interact with the scene, or remeber their fucking character, it´s unreal
They even remind me of their characters flaws in bad for them situations
I started a new group including 1 and 2, but it just isn´t worth the effort with 3,4 and 5

>>96516225
How did they know you were running a game if you hadn't told them about it yet?

>>96516247
What do you mean?
I asked everyone if they would like to play in a game I´d run, we found a date for session 0
I gave everyone the campaign notes and asked them to send me a general Idea of their character befor session 0

>>96516269
When you tell the players about the game, that's session 0

>>96516281
Really? Weird if you do it that way, but ok
To me session 0 is the first in person meeting with everyone where you talk about tone, expectations, etc.

>>96516298
No, it's not weird, and it's not "a way". That's what it means.

>>96515165
I had the same thing with a retarded Ref running Traveller. I asked if we could buy a bigger air/raft as the example given in the vehicle book wasnt big enough for our needs. He tried to argue that ALL air/rafts are exactly 4 tons throughout the Imperium's 11,000 worlds and there are no variants from the single sample described in the booklet he owned and there never have been any variants at all in it's 5000 years of use. No smaller civilian versions, no trucks, no pressurised versions for use in dangerous atmospheres or environments, just a single open topped flying humvee used by EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. Some refs have no idea how to extrapolate from the examples they are given and get annoyed when the players do.

>>96516225
>At first I was conflicted if I should just something like "Me and the dice are the ones deciding what happens, so you don´t know if that works"
this is something you should remind players

>>96515687
Do you explain to them beforehand that that probably wouldnt work, or do you pokerface and then wait till after they've committed to go "gotcha!"

>>96514999
Bots

>>96514391 (OP)
My toolbox consists of geography, bakery and sewing, all 3 actions are valid.

>>96514391 (OP)
I love when players do this. I prefer less obvious examples, but I love when they use the environment instead of just mindlessly spamming the same shit. Crap like that is the reason to play a tabletop game instead of a vidya.

>>96515165
Literally why.
Go play an mmo instead faggots.

>>96515687
These sound like things you should be communicating to them about.
'Are you sure? The bandits are alert and looking for people.'

>>96515118
I don't think they could know as the DM is the one setting the scene and I have no problem with players asking if the cave has stala(ct,gm)ites. I think it's clever idea -- even if the player might have been underappreciating the strength of rock and overestimating the size that could be broken off. It takes a man or a dwarf with a pick axe to knock out a chip, or a big hammer, several wedges and some pre-cut hole to split a boulder. Or, if you're a geologist, it takes your geologic hammer to split a boulder which is just any stone greater than about 250 mm in diameter
If I had no pre-conceived notion as DM I'd consider running with the idea though wary of the precedent it might set as next time they encounter rock might get confused why they can't bust through the curtain walls with just their crossbow. My opinion was directed at calling out OP for his criticism by saying those things are always in caves was off base when they aren't always in caves.

>>96514391 (OP)
Kinda lame that a lot of the game is designed to dismiss creative solutions like this.

>>96516311
You are retarded anon.

>>96514831
>stalactites
Would be much easier to dodge, and deal much less damage than you just attacking normally. But sure, you can do it.
>powder in invisible enemy
If that was the case, you'd already see the dust and grime accumulated on his skin
>weight down flying enemy
Use bolas, then sure, or just fucking attack whatever limb they use to fly.

>>96514391 (OP)
>Goblin Slayer scenario
>Goblin Slayer scenario
>Goblin Slayer scenario
OP, you're not fucking subtle, you hate Goblin Slayer. cool, now go back to /a/ you fucking turd-burglar

>>96514838
>Just do it
Nigga I need to know my surroundings if I'm JUST GOING TO DO something.
That's why people ask questions.

>>96514391 (OP)
This kind of clever shenanigans is fun occasionally.
It becomes fucking frustrating when someone makes a character around trying to abuse the shit out of whatever real life physics solution available. As a fellow player in this guys group it is so fucking cringe having to watch the guy try to cheese every single encounter in the most unfun and blatant ways. Like.. dude, could we just play our characters for once in combat, and use abilities and stuff?

>>96524821
There's no such thing as cheese. If you can do it in real life you can do it in a game. Maybe consider basic tactics when designing opposition.

>>96516005
>just accept being the new /trash/ bro!!
How about you lick my nuts

>>96514391 (OP)
You don't have players, OP. Stop larping.

>>96515606
>i'm running a SERIOUS campaign for SERIOUS gamers

>>96515687
>explain fires don't light themselves in the wilderness and it's an obvious sign of people nearby
>in a magical world of fire-breathing dragons and fireball hurling imps

>>96525685
Yes.

>>96525688
When did I say that dragons or imps exist in the setting, retard?

>>96525713
Well there's why your players try dumb shit: they're bored.

>>96525688
Tbf that doesn't actually change things. A fireball hurling imp or a dragon are also reasons to be on alert. Harmless things generally aren't starting fires, so a fire is cause to be concerned that *something* is out there, humanoid or otherwise.

>>96525751
Lol you lose

>>96514391 (OP)
Here's a small one:
>finished a LMoP campaign
>I, as the DM, ask for feedback for next time
>get some good suggestions but...
>one suggestion is "can you describe rooms more"
>flash back to when we play
>"so you enter the dus-"
>"I loot everything haha"
>"haha ok let me finish first, so this area is dus-"
>"I have dark vision by the way"
>"ok, so you all ente-"
>"I look up to check for monsters on the ceiling"
>repeat ad nauseum for every room
I think I have come to realize I like the idea of playing TTRPGs more than actually playing them. I had one player who hit, what I felt, was the perfect balance of RP and playing the game while I had to wrangle nonstop meme-ing and rules lawyer-ing every session from the others. Maybe if I had more people like that player, it'd be more fun, but it was just exhausting as a DM continually bringing people back on focus. TTRPGs are weird because they are a game you want to have fun, but you also need to be somewhat "serious" about for them to be engaging, and it's been hard for my group to hit the balance between being social and playing the game.

>>96525971
it's a good idea to run one shots and slowly identify players you want top have around.

>>96514391 (OP)
>That GM who thinks shoving in as many ebin twists as possible is good storytelling and that forcing the party to have 30 minute long in character debates about their next course of action is peak tabletop

Okay Anon, let's play Lancer - tell me about your character.
>He's a loner who collects stuff. His goal is to collect high level licenses
Okay Anon, let's play Traveller - tell me about your character.
>He's a loner who collects stuff. His goal is to have a big ship
Okay Anon, let's play Vampire: The Masquerade - tell me about your character.
>He's a Brujah who collects stuff. His goal is to acquire powerful artifacts
Okay Anon, let's play Call of Cthulhu - tell me about your character.
>He's an archeologist who collects stuff. His goal is to collect powerful antiques
Okay Anon, let's play Black Crusade - tell me about your character.
>He's an Iron Warrior who collects stuff. His goal is to have Terminator Armour

Nice guy, but he's autistic as fuck and refuses to do anything but find loot.

>>96525988
That's a good idea, but I think for my own sanity I'm stepping away from the game for a while. Between editing properly scaled maps, creating initiative cards, monster tokens, cutting stat blocks, creating quest cards, and doing goofy ass voices/characters to make the world engaging and streamlined, I need a break. I don't think some of the players realize that without the work put in, we would effectively get a game session like we got a few years ago where the game started breaking from the inconsistencies and lack of preparation ultimately resulting in a player and DM getting into and argument and story stagnation and the whole thing coming to an abrupt halt.

>>96525903
Nope sorry, get bodied

you lose :)

>>96526032
finding loot is the point of games dumbass storyshitting faggot nigger

>>96524821
Mate if this shit "cheeses", then the DM is doing a shit job translating circumstantial maneuvers into game mechanics.

>>96525688
Are you seriously arguing that fire-breathing dragons or fireball hurling imps AREN'T a reason to go on high alert?

>>96526441
Sure, they're dangerous monsters, but man is the real monster.

>>96514391 (OP)
This has to be a troll thread, right?

>>96514831
>a massive jagged rock falling on one's head only does 1d4 damage becauas muh improvised weapon rule
Kill yourself.

>>96514391 (OP)
Play Genesys, it's crunchy enough and smoothly allows to do all of this things and much more.

>>96527001
how much damage would it take to make the massive jagged rock fall?

>>96526441
>imp
Send one dude out
>dragon
Send nobody out and hole up
Both of those scenarios could be taken advantage of over "the bandits know there's people now and they are looking for you"

>>96517451
There isn't a "gotcha" there. The consequences are perfectly in line with reality, its the players fault for not considering the flaws in their plan.

>>96529586
The players aren't physically there, on the field of battle. There is always going to be a perceptual gap. Is there a version where they had all of the information and they still made a dumb decision? Yeah, maybe
But I've seen it very often where my players want to do something because they have misunderstood some key part of the scenario that's taking place. Asking "wait, what are you actually trying to accomplish, and why do you think these actions will accomplish that," usually reveals some kind of misunderstanding about the situation. I don't want the players to fuck up because of a misunderstanding.

>>96526032
Honestly the only one is really doesn't work for is Vampire, and kind of Cthulhu, because of the "powerful" part. An antiques dealer who is on the prowl for dope shit is a pretty good character concept.

Actually, a scenario about people like those American Pickers dudes would be a pretty decent campaign starter.

>>96524877
>>96526437
Feels like you guys are missing the point. There are some players who will do anything but actually use the game's intended actions and abilities to fight. Determined to find a shortcut to win every encounter, even when you've already described the dungeon in detail stating it's a great hall full of tattered old banners and shattered furniture, you'll still get
>oh but is there a hole in the floor?
No.
>are some of the flagstones cracked, showing signs of breaking soon?
No.
>What about the walls?
No, the dungeon's floor and walls are in reasonably good condition. It's only been a few years since the monsters took it over, so it hasn't been long enough for anything to degrade to the point of immediate danger to collapse.
>Okay, what about the ceiling? Can I smash it and cause it to cave in?
There are no parts of the ceiling that are in bad enough repair that you could smash it easily. If you want to attack the ceiling, you'll have to overcome its default Hardness and HP values to break it.
>Maaaaaan why are you making this so hard? Oh I know, are there pillars in this room?
Yes, there are pillars.
>Alright I'm gonna prepare to smash one of the pillars
The stone pillars?
>Yeah, if I destroy one it'll cause a cave in, right? So I attack the pillar.
Okay, we'll skip the attack roll since the pillar is inanimate. Roll your damage.
>What do you mean roll damage?
Roll damage. If you want to break the pillar you'll have to overcome its Hardness and deplete its HP.
>MANNNN YOU'RE RUINING THIS FIGHT

>>96529727
What do you mean by shortcut? There's no correct or intended way to interact with the world. There are only decisions, and the results of those decisions.

>>96527001
I'm very sorry that you hate using the same rules every other player is expected to follow. Best of luck with first grade.

>>96529768
Do you always converse via platitudes?

>>96528043
No, you go on high alert in both situations.

>>96529786
It's not a platitude, I asked you a question, numbnuts. What do you mean by shortcut?

>>96529727
He wants to cave in the ceiling of the room he's standing in? Is he suicidal?

>>96529792
>It's not a platitude
>There's no correct or intended way to interact with the world. There are only decisions, and the results of those decisions.
You might as well just say grass is green, therefore constraining players to an established world is badwrongfun.
> What do you mean by shortcut?
What the fuck do you mean by this question? At first I thought you were just shitposting, now I'm concerned you might be retarded.

>>96529800
Anything to wipe out an encounter in one turn instead of actually playing it out as a proper fight.

>>96529807
No, I might as well say that there is no correct way to interact with the world, which is true.

Why do you think caving in the ceiling is a shortcut? Why would that be bad, if it was?

>>96529811
How many rounds does an encounter have to last before the players have permission for their decisions to matter?

>>96529792
nta
I think the issue is that there is creativity and then there is trying to avoid playing the game. Finding personal ways to achieve a goal with the mechanics and tools available is good, but if there is a mechanic to achieve something, like reducing HP, and you want the same result without using that mechanic, it feels like cheesing the system. If you wanted to escape or blind yeah, use your brain, if you want to do combat don't try to always be above the cobat rules.

>>96529827
Making rational decisions in your own self interest is playing the game. If collapsing the ceiling is more effective than swinging a sword, and whatever downsides associated with it are acceptable, then you should collapse the ceiling.

>>96529816
>No, I might as well say that there is no correct way to interact with the world, which is true.
It is also a platitude. It's meaningless on its own. You can use it to justify any statement you want, which apparently in this case is "just let players do whatever they want bro"
>Why do you think caving in the ceiling is a shortcut? Why would that be bad, if it was?
I'm not gonna play twenty questions with a retard who doesn't want to have an actual conversation.

>>96529827
And just in case that wasn't clear enough : Making stupid decisions on purpose because of some imagined way you're "supposed" to play the game is both meta-gaming and bad roleplaying.

>>96529834
Of the two of us, I'm the only one trying to find out what the fuck you're actually trying to communicate. You've done nothing but pretend to be stupid and obstinate the entire time because of whatever faggot chip on your shoulder you have about players having the audacity to interact with the world their characters exist in.

>>96529821
Decisions matter in every turn you stupid fucking nigger. You can't kill monsters without attacking them either physically or magically. That's how combat works, retard. Handing players 1 turn victories doesn't enhance the gameplay experience, it just devalues playing a game designed around combat. One player trying to outwit an encounter will deprive the rest of the player group from their chance to contribute using the mechanics and tools the game is designed for them to use.

>>96529854
There are many more ways than that to defeat monsters, obviously. You aren't handing the players anything. The GM doesn't have any preference for the players' decisions, he just runs the laws of physics. If you're too heavy for a bridge, you fall. If you walk on a greased floor, you might trip. If you attack a load-bearing wall, the structure might collapse and kill you. There is nothing outside the world, there is only cause and effect.

>>96529854
And you didn't answer my question. Since you already established that winning in one round is unacceptable, we can start there. Where is the threshold? Are the players allowed to win in two rounds? Three?

>>96529850
>Of the two of us, I'm the only one trying to find out what the fuck you're actually trying to communicate.
Players should engage with game mechanics rather than trying to outsmart combat engagements and complaining when they can't. It's that simple, I'm sorry your brain doesn't work right because you're an autistic Down syndrome brainfucked bitch.
>You've done nothing but pretend to be stupid and obstinate the entire time because of whatever faggot chip on your shoulder you have about players having the audacity to interact with the world their characters exist in.
Pretending to be stupid is exactly what you're doing, asking retarded questions with no bearing on the argument. Do you do this with everyone, faggot? I presented an example of what I was talking about and you didn't even read it, you skipped it all and just decided to ask retarded questions. A relevant question would be, "Are shortcuts bad?" rather than "lol hurr durr what is a shortcut?" like you're some kind of fucking modern-day traditional gaming Socrates about to crack open the secrets of tabletop gaming for the entire planet.

>>96529885
No. Players should engage with the world. If you're not trying to outsmart things that are trying to kill you, you're not roleplaying. It's that simple. You're the one pretending to be stupid, and you will not attempt to turn this around again.

>>96529678
>The players aren't physically there, on the field of battle
That's correct anon! They're there in pretend, because it's a game about fantasizing and using your imagination and creativity!
Not very creative to just throw shit plans at the wall and hope they'll stick, is it now?

>Asking "wait, what are you actually trying to accomplish, and why do you think these actions will accomplish that," usually reveals some kind of misunderstanding about the situation
Good news: This wasn't that type of situation. The players knew exactly what they were trying to accomplish, and so did the GM. They thought the bandits would just rush out to put the fire out because they're retarded. And they suffered the consequences of thoughtlessly plunging forwards without stopping to consider whether they were making the right play. Tough luck!
You're clearly the type of retard who needs the GM to railroad and idiot-check every action you take.

>>96529899
Coming up with plans is the definition of being creative, yes. Being uncreative would be to mindlessly attack monsters until their hit points reach zero. Since you value creativity, clearly you should be okay with the players trying other methods.

>>96529832
in his example the player had no reasson to think the ceiling was collapsable at all, that's the kind of info you get early because it's a two way street.
If there was some enviromental cue or general logic yeah, go for it. It becomes an issue when a single player tries to do better than everyone else, spending extra time, in a scenario they didn't try to avoid.

>>96529842
are both of this posts yours? I didn't understand what you were agreeing with.
It's not an imaginary way you're supposed to play, it's the rules of that game. You don't play 1e and 4e the same way, and combat is a big aspect there. You chose to play a certain system so you should engage with it whem it applies directly.

>>96529866
>There are many more ways than that to defeat monsters, obviously. You aren't handing the players anything. The GM doesn't have any preference for the players' decisions, he just runs the laws of physics. If you walk on a greased floor, you might trip. If you attack a load-bearing wall, the structure might collapse and kill you. There is nothing outside the world, there is only cause and effect.
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>96529880
>And you didn't answer my question.
I'm not obligated to answer a retarded question. Who the fuck do you think you are? It's a simple word with a simple meaning, and even if you are ESL and don't understand it, I provided an example in my original post of a player looking for an easy way to win a fight even when it's obvious there isn't one, to the detriment of the session's pacing.
>Since you already established that winning in one round is unacceptable, we can start there. Where is the threshold? Are the players allowed to win in two rounds? Three?
If you want answers to that question, read literally any DM Guide and it will provide recommendations for encounter balancing. Feel free to gather all the information you want there and fuck off. I'm not here to spoonfeed autistic retards who have never met THAT guy who refuses to simply play out a fight the way the game is designed for.

>>96529929
No, he's not "trying to do better", he's just attempting things. There's no competition.

Wrong. There is no rule in the book that says you must only interact with monsters by hitting them with your sword.

>>96529919
>Coming up with plans is the definition of being creative
No it isn't.
>Being uncreative would be to mindlessly attack monsters
"Mindlessly attack monsters" is still a plan.

plan
/plan/
noun
noun: plan; plural noun: plans
an intention or decision about what one is going to do.
"I have no plans to retire"

cre·a·tive
/krēˈādiv/
adjective
adjective: creative
(of a person) having good imagination or original ideas.

You lose.

>>96529936
It was extremely straightforward. What are you confused about?

>>96529885
>because you're an autistic Down syndrome brainfucked bitch.
NTA but have you considered showing kindness and patience with your fellow man instead of spiteful antagonism?
Adopting this attitude may also solve your tabletop problems.

>>96529945
Wrong. Creativity means creating. When you create a plan, you are engaged in the act of creating, which is creative. You lose.

>>96529961
Nope, you lose.

Nope, you lose.

Yep I win

Nope, you lose.

I won! I won!!!!

Actual children.

Nope,you lose.

Nope you're the child

Nope, you lose.

I respectfully disagree

>>96529896
>outsmart things that are trying to kill you
This is fine.
>outsmart the world/gm
This is not.
/thread

>>96530182
No such thing, retard.

>>96529586
Careful. This guy is a Top 1% poster on reddit.com.

>>96514391 (OP)
>>Hey DM are there any stalactites on the ceiling I can shoot to make them fall on the monster?
Yes, they are solid rock and require a lot of force though.
>>Hey DM is there any flour or other powder around I can use to throw at them?
This is a stable so not very likely. DC of 20
>>Hey DM is there a blanket or something lying around I can throw on them to weigh them down?
Not readily in sight. Do you want to spend a turn searching for one?

nooooo you have to stand there and use the same boring attack every round! if you don't, the game might actually be fun!!!!

>repeatedly attacking
:(
>repeatedly throwing dust or knocking objects around
:O

It's better than attacking, yeah.

nope :)

yep :)

sorry, you took too long to reply, you lost :)

Nope you lose :)

>>96530691
>This is a stable so not very likely. DC of 20
DC for what, retard?

>>96529899
>I'm going to make a bunch of assumptions for a story I wasn't there for because I am exactly the kind of GM that pokerfaces their players and then hits them with shitty gotchas.

K.

>I'm bad at coming up with plans and think GMs should just let me win every time because I get anxiety if I don't win the imaginary game :(
LOL

>he can't handle the players making decisions instead of acting like robots
KEK

butthurt loser player detected

seething dmnigger detected

>>96531738
If I had to guess, he probably meant Search. Maybe for a blanket or one of those horse tabards.

>>96532634
That's what I thought but it makes no sense. Why would a search DC be higher just because something isn't likely being kept in that room? It wouldn't be any harder to spot flour laying around.

>>96529787
Look out we got a professional bandit itt

>>96529936
>DM Guide and it will provide recommendations for encounter balancing
homie...

>>96532661
I assume that anon recognises that people carry stuff when they go into stables and he's imaging a situation where he as DM hadn't planned on there being flour present. He doesn't think it's a good idea but he's not completely opposed to it. Instead of shooting the player's idea down entirely he's giving a small chance but still a chance that the player's idea will work. The player can then decide if they want to waste a round looking for flour that probably isn't there or come up with a better action.

Shooting down player's ideas can discourage them. We read enough stories on this board about players not thinking at all. This could be a nicer way of doing things.

Or maybe he as DM has decided that the player had a good idea so he's allowing a search but instead of flour that he knows isn't there he's letting the player instead find the pouch of gold dust the stable owner has collected while clipping off coins.

>>96514391 (OP)
Go back to writing your shitty novel.

>>96533736
>Instead of shooting the player's idea down entirely he's giving a small chance but still a chance that the player's idea will work.
This is dumb. He should simply state whether there is or isn't or call for a plain search DC if he's running a roll-for-everything game.
And assuming he means 3.5e (Because 5e has you specify the type of roll, whether it's Perception or Investigation), search literally does not list a DC for something this easy because it does not expect you to do so.
Regardless it is stupid to have it be harder to search for something just because it's "unlikely" to be there. This isn't quantum physics.

>Shooting down player's ideas can discourage them
If you have a dumb idea it should be shot down. If that discourages a player, good, they'll come up with less dumb ideas or get filtered, this hobby has no shortage of players.

>>96533736
>Shooting down player's ideas can discourage them. We read enough stories on this board about players not thinking at all. This could be a nicer way of doing things.
This way actually leads to players not thinking at all and expecting to roll their way out of actually playing the game, like in >>96533762

>>96532214
>DMnigger
how angry to you have to be to post like this?

seething dmnigger replied lol

>>96535660
No. There are no dumb decisions, only cause and effect.

>>96535666
Using the resolution mechanic is playing the game, by definition. If you don't want to roll dice, join a freeform game, or write a book.

>>96535844
The resolution mechanic is not the whole game, nope. Try again.

I didn't say it was the whole game, nope. Try again.

Yes you did, you lose.

I win.

>>96535671
(You) JUMPSCARE LOOK OUT

janny mad lol

>>96514391 (OP)
What are you bitching about? Many DMs would sell their souls for players that use their brains.

>>96536134
lol yeah using your brains is when you just expect the GM to hand you a win

>>96536149
How do the players find out what their characters know besides asking the GM, retard?

>>96536480
>How do the players find out what their characters know
They're not asking for this reason they are asking for an easy solution they can exploit as >>96529727 elaborates upon. Try reading the thread next time dumbfuck.

>>96536505
No they're not, try reading the thread next time dumbfuck.

>>96536582
Yes they are, try seething less next time dumbfuck.

Nope you lose.

>>96532661
>>96533736
>>96535660
Dumb me, got the flour mixed with the blanket, but anyway, what do I know about stables?
For the record, that might be a waste of time. Not sure it's still the case, but Invisibility used to be an illusion, unless it's a proper spell it probably doesn't work against it. Maybe flour or dust or even water on the floor can help spot the position of the invisible target by footprints.

>>96514838
I think your the problem with modern games and society in general, I can tell your a leftist because your style of play seems to be that you force the gm to do everything for you without putting in any type of work

>>96537639
Hallucinating?

>>96514838
>Most fights don't take place in an empty, featureless white room
Storyshitter spotted.

>>96515687
This is a case of players having a wildly different idea from you of how your world works. It's your job to communicate it better as their characters have (assumingly) lived in said world and they should know it doesn't work by looney toons logic.

>>96515687
I don't get this plan. Why would the bandits even care at all or be distracted by a fire 300 feet away? Why would they bother putting themselves at risk to extinguish it?

>>96514391 (OP)
Don't most games have a rule, ability, power, feat for this exact scenario? I know Pathfinder 2e and Mutants and Masterminds have a rule or feat for this

>>96537753
Every character outright having an ability to throw random dust on the floor and effectively dispel invisibity would be insanely OP, but I could see it as a feat skillmonkey class could invest in.

>>96537683
>
This is a case of players having a wildly different idea from you of how your world works. It's your job to communicate it better as their characters have (assumingly) lived in said world and they should know it doesn't work by looney toons logic.
Plenty of real life players consider npcs and enemies to operate more on video game logic and forget that there's a real human controlling them aka the DM. That's usually where the disparity comes from.

>>96537700
the players clearly assumed the base was close enough to the woods that the fire would spread into it.

>>96514391 (OP)
Smashing stone requires 3 net successes in one attack against a structure of 10d, so it'd be pretty tough in a Standard level game. Assisting, Team Attack, Resolve would all be useful. I'd make sure to let the players know that destabilizing the roof of the cavern could be bad for them as well, especially characters that don't have high defenses against physical attacks. As others pointed out though, if the goal is just to deal damage, a direct attack against the enemy would usually be a better use of resources. However, if the enemy is invisible, or can't be reached directly, is behind cover, or some other situation where a direct attack is impossible or unfeasible, this could be a good strategy. Also, against multiple opponents, the attack would gain the Area Pro. More importantly, falling debris could have other effects on the targets, such as Ensnare or Stun, and the resulting dust cloud from the impact mimics the Darkness power. I'd treat the stalactites as Scenery with an attack rank of 16d, corresponding to their Structure. This method would only work once, after which the stalactites would be destroyed.

Attacking an invisible opponent normally incurs a -3d penalty for attacks and active defenses against them. This is reduced to -2d if they can be detected but aren't actually visible, such as movement in a dust cloud or water. A player character with a suitable power or perk like Preparation, Resources, or Portable Storehouse can generally produce a bag of flour, possibly after spending a Resolve depending on the specifics. If they're in a location where you might expect to find flour, I'd either require a Resolve or just let them find a bag of flour as appropriate.

>>96537841
Grounding a flying enemy depends on the specific type of flight and the method used. If you throw a blanket a Superman, nothing much is going to happen. If you throw a weighted net at a levitating wizard, you might succeed. That's a simple combat stunt. Dazzle and Blind (like flashbangs) can be used to knock large flying creatures out of the air if they're within Distant range, and will typically cost the creature a turn or at least impose penalties on its defenses.

>>96537777
Something like a Weapon Improvisation feat, but to simulate cantrips for one round or something with whatever's handy.

>>96537777
I was more thinking about having the ability to pull an item out your ass for a specific scenario but I did look it up, Pathfinder/Starfinder 2e has a feat that lets a player retroactively buy an item for a scenario, for example buying a bag of flour when fighting invisible enemies, however the player needs to have the currency on hand and it hand be bigger then a light bulk item so you can't just bring a cannon in. You can only use this ability one per rest time.

Mutants and Masterminds has a feat that lets you use metacurrency to shape the environment for an exact scenario, so if you are fighting a monster that needs acid to be killed a player can use a feat and say there's a lab near by with the materials to make the acid to kill the monster

Funny how the OP stops interacting as soon as people reply in good faith lul. Who could have seen that coming?????

>>96537624
>DC 20 check to find a blanket in a stables
Are you retarded?

>>96544450
Most bait threads are like that, yeah.

Just played one serious campaign I dropped out of and a one-shot so basically I'm shitposting:
>Can I do that?
Yeah sure go ahead
>Try that
Lol no you can't do that
>After a few more tries I just go through the few motions my character is allowed to do or rather have any impact on the game
>Feelsbadman and just zone out
I'd rather play videogames.

>>96547866
Low attention span zoomer fuck

>>96548004
I'm hitting 40 and love BT and mid to heavy weight boardgames. I just can't stand controlling a singular character in a RPG setting with almost zero impact while having to deal with all the autism of other players.
Imagine playing a warlock and casting nothing but eldrtich blast. Imagine having a bard in your team that casts that stupid tent every other fight. Imagine having a monk in your team that tries to reinvent the way fighting works every fight. Imagine being a paladin that goes "I need to smite evil every step I go". Imagine being a rogue that is fucking useless. It's boring, why even bother?

>>96549051
>I'm hitting 40 and my brain is fried by tiktoks and youtube shorts
Christ, at this point I'd consider suicide were I in your shoes.

>>96514406
.... mmmm no. It's absolutely and definitely extremely fair for the GM to tell players to use the tools in their kit to play the game instead of trying to come up with non-mechanical exploits and meta-game manipulation of the GM.

1. Do fucking NOT try to manipulate me while I'm GMing my game. You will be excluded from my table before you can finish your sentence.
2. PCs are already demigods with powers and resources unfathomable to normal mortals. And compared to the monster statblocks, the PCs have INSANE numerical advantages. And those mechanics are what the game is designed around.
3. If you want to play Mother May I, then you're gonna have to accept what Mother says. You can't try to get an unfair advantage by resorting to begging for Mother May I and then get upset that the GM says no. If the GM can't say no, then what is even the fucking point of any of this???

You can be creative... in ways that don't try to manipulate the context of the game to evade the normal rules and limitations. No, the falling stalactite is not going to one-shot the giant. Why? Not because the giant is tall and the rock doesn't have time to accelerate to deadly velocity. And it's not because your piddly arrow can't dislodge a rock formation that has grown for thousands of years without collapsing. That's the bullshit answer. The real answer is that your arrow was only supposed to do 1d8+2 damage and it's fucking stupid to let you arbitrarily swap that up to a hundred damage just because you "think it'd be funny".

No. It is not "funny". "Funny" is not just whatever you got caught trying to do this time. You tried to get free stuff and you were told no. That is not "being a killjoy". The GM is absolutely in the rights to tell you to fucking stop.

Be creative in ways the respect the GM and rules. If you can't do that, it's "no fun". You're just being an abusive twat.

>>96549291
>to use the tools in their kit
ok, I roll strength to knock down the stalactite (dc 15)
Oh look a 21. I win.

>PCs are already demigods with powers and resources unfathomable to normal mortals.
Anon the typical top sprinting speed of a player character in D&D is 6.8 mph.

>>96549061
I tried zooycide but I failed and now I spend my time buying real estate

>>96549291
I can tell you play some kind of pathfinder.

>>96549387
And?

>>96549328
It's not DC 15, for starters. For seconds, I'm the one who sets the DC. Not you. Good luck climbing up to the ceiling to dislodge a rock, by the way. And I notice you have no training points invested in Knowledge (Engineering) so if the ceiling collapses and kills you all, you'll have only yourself to blame.

Which is to say, you should be fucking grateful I'm indulging your bullshit with conversation long enough to tell you no more elaborately and with more details than your character could justify knowing.

Also, you're removed from the game. Out. Now. Before I call the police on your trespassing ass.

>>96549408
>It's not DC 15, for starters.
Yep it is.

>Good luck climbing up to the ceiling to dislodge a rock
Nah don't have to, I'm using the tools in my kid to just hit it.

>training points
Not a rule, sorry.

>Which is to say, you should be fucking grateful
You should be grateful that a player who reads the rules is at the table. Kneel, slut.

>>96549434
So you're still not gonna get to play here, and now I'm pressing criminal charges for sexual assault.

>>96549473
Go ahead, the cops can't unrape you. In fact they'll probably agree I was in the right to do so.

>>96549434
>Getting yeeted so hard from the game you're landing in jail.
>Tell the judge it's only a DC 15 Diplomacy check.
>six months for contempt served sequentially with the five year sexual assault conviction

>>96549525
you should totally do that irl, anon, you'll win the game

>>96549530
>>96549538
Samefagging? Tsk tsk, this time we're doing it without lube.

>>96549549
You're so desperate for engagement, the only shocking thing about you is that you apparently are willing to spoil the illusion for yourself.
Oh well, that's your own problem to deal with. You're done here.

>>96549606
Ahhhh, just got done painting anons insides white. Got anything else to say once you're done cleaning my meat flute gayboy?

>>96549291
The environment is a tool in your kit. Interacting wtih the environment is playing the game.

>>96549291
It isn't non-mechanical in good games. I already provided an example of how to adjudicate it with zero house rules. Read the thread in its entirety before posting. Don't argue.

>>96549394
>No, you can't knock a stalactite off the roof of the cave, you don't have the Stalactite Knocker feat.
>No, you can't find any flour in the room, you don't have the Fond Flour feat.
>No, you can't throw a blanket on the flying enemy, you don't have the Throw a Blanket on the flying enemy feat.

>>96551438
In pathfinder you can just knock the stalactite off if you have enough STR. It'll also do like, a bit of damage, might even be good if you're at 1st level.

>Entire group is playing several flavors of humanoid
>Decide to play as a friendly monster because i think its funny
>Bring it up and discuss it with the party and DM just to check if it would be ok
>They give me the green light on it
>Session 1 rolls around
>Because of plot reasons for now i have to keep my distance and pretty much just stalk the party, or else they will kill me because the monsters they are supposed to kill for this mission are the same race as i am (don't care, the guys they are supposed to kill are evil dicks).
>Finally get a chance to show up and help because they do need it, and "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and shit
>One of the other players instantly tries to kill me on sight because apparently his character hates my whole race for reasons he didn't put in his character sheet (he told me later he did it because he thought it was a funny plot twists)
>Rest of the party doesn't try to kill me and are pointing out all the time it looks like im trying to help them
>DM for some reason allows this to continue
>End up PvPing the guy and win
>Make it pretty clear that im leaving him unconscious
>Join up with the party
>5 minutes later DM summons a mob to lynch me because they hate monsters and "came to help the party", help the guy that tried to kill me to get back up so they can kill me this time with a magic +5 sword. (Turns out he wanted for me to roll a new character because it turns out i broke the module by playing an OP combination between one of the most common enemies with an apparently OP build, but he wanted to make it funny).
>Rest of the party also goes down trying to help me
I got to admit, it was pretty funny. The mob rolled like shit, it took them like 10 turns to kill me, and failed most of them.
To bad that game broke the group, and i barely hang out with the DM sometimes, everyone else just moved on.

>>96549291
autism

>>96551566
>Turns out he wanted for me to roll a new character because it turns out i broke the module by playing an OP combination between one of the most common enemies with an apparently OP build
You should've mob lynched the DM right there.

>>96549291
I'll manipulate you easily and there is NOTHING you can do about it :)

>>96537700
Because the players assumed the bandits would behave like aggroed enemies instead of people, who would all run out to kill the enemy instead of doing the reasonable thing they actually did.

>>96551472
Not according to >>96549291

>>96537700
Because fires tend to spread anon.

>>96552354
And? He's not a pathfinder player, he's pretty obviously a rules-lite/5eggot. Those people are always control freaks.

>>96552363
The bandits were in a fort. You're aware that forts typically are constructed with fire breaks, and usually have all vegetation that could provide cover cleared to a considerable distance, surely?

>>96552563
>The bandits were in a fort. You're aware that forts typically are constructed with fire breaks
If this was described in the original post I'd give you that but it's not so no. For all we know the bandits don't think that far ahead.

>>96552563
>lands in your hay

>>96552590
why would bandits keep hay?

>>96552604
To feed their animals, to maintain roofs and insulation and to fuel their fires.

>>96552618
>To feed animals
Wouldn't use hay for that and bandits don't keep livestock.
>Maintain roofs
You don't use hay for that and it shouldn't need replacing and hay for that would be stored indoors anyways.
>Insulation
Definitely not hay.
>Fuel their fires
Absolutely not, just use firewood.
Design a better scenario next time.

>>96514391 (OP)
>player tries to be an intimidating badass
>most of the time he tries to make a threat or coerce somebody he just says something confusing
I really don't know what to do with him. I don't want to just snub his attempts but they're always just... bad. Last session they got accosted by a couple of rooftop snipers. Party beats them, knocks them out, loots their stuff, finds a pristine dress in the pair's shelter (this is Fallout so that shit is rare) and... he immediately tries to accuse one of them of killing the last wearer and looting it off their bloody corpse? I could not track his line of reasoning, or even figure out what his goal was. Almost every attempt has been just like this.
>GM, can I intimidate this person who has full authority to beat the shit out of me?
... No? Find another goddamn angle, dude.

>>96552672
I am not even going to dignify this drivel with a response.

>>96552690
Yet you did anyways, a seething gameless response lol

>>96552682
Have you tried talking to him?

>players solve goblin dungeon but fail any stealth options choosing to hack n slash instead
>meet human disguised as a monster who's the goblin leader
>spooky lovecraft niggerman grub worshipper
>they have a map
>they have the exit to their backs
>"well, you've found my secret and freed my experiments... I cannot let you leave"
>30 goblins that were already on high alert are called to the altar room
>party is level 1
>orc player: I want to smash his head
>me: okay roll
>natural 20 splatters the human
>me: okay you get 30 goblins swinging on you
>"what?! No! I'm bigger I can just run away!"
>He's ripped to shreds while rest of the party books it
>"you're just trying to kill us! Quit playing dm vs players!"
Did I mention they had the map and the exit to their backs?

>>96552590
So you don't know what a fire break is?

>>96552730
You started a combat and expected the players to just... Flee? Are you stupid?

>>96552744
Lol you're silly

>>96552759
And you're a railroading faggot.

>>96552759
Well? Did you expect them to flee or not?

>>96552796
Sure, so?

>>96552840
Why?

>>96552924
Because they had the map and the exit right there? Because I gave them every fucking hint possible that they should flee? Because they were facing certain death if they didn't?
Got any more retarded questions?

>>96552933
What do you mean by "should"? There isn't a correct course of action in a roleplaying game.

>>96552938
Depends on your goal. Do you want your characters to survive? Then yeah there is a correct course of action, nitwit.

>>96552943
Yeah, the correct course of action is defeating anything that might be a threat, obviously. Dumbass.

>>96552781
>actions
>consequences
>muh railroad
playoids deserve the falling rocks

>>96552946
>Yeah, the correct course of action is defeating anything that might be a threat
You can't win every fight, fuck knuckle. If you're outmatched, retreat or die. Don't like the consequences of your actions, too bad.

>>96552957
Nope.

Yep, you lose.

Yep, you lose.

lmao seething playoid

>>96552781
>You started a combat and expected the players to just... Flee? Are you stupid?
>And you're a railroading faggot.

Do they have options or do they not? Make up your mind, kid.

>>96537639
>>96537645
There is a difference between asking a GM to describe more about a room in case there might be something useful, and expecting there to be something there.
The issue is conflating what might be a legitimate mistake on the GM's part to describe a room fully to wanting to spontaneously have an I win button.

>>96549328
>Anon the typical top sprinting speed of a player character in D&D is 6.8 mph.

You forgot something.

Normal movement is 12" per round
Sprinting is 5x normal
Outdoors 1" is 10 yards <-- you forgot that outdoors movement is in yards not feet

600 yards per round = 9.14 m/s = 32.9 km/hr = 20.5 miles per hour

That's about 10% slower than the current 100 m sprint record but it's sustained for 3000% longer. It's a sub-3-minute-mile, 27% faster than the current world record mile of 3' 43", and has 2 rounds left.

>>96552730
Why did all 30 goblins get a free attack?
Also
>mwahaha i cannot let you leave
>with the exit directly behind them
Lmao

>>96554362
I'm guessing the goblins came in from behind, which would make sense for the villain's plan to prevent the party from leaving.

>>96553246
>Sprinting is 5x normal
no its not, it's 2x.

>>96554654
>the goblins came in from behind, which would make sense for the villain's plan to prevent the party from leaving.
Both this and the original post make it sound like "the exit right behind the party" is now blocked by the horde of goblins. Between this and it being a combat scene, it's no wonder the orc went straight for the chief.

>>96552682
Thats just really funny if he plays into the absurdity of it.

>>96549291
I don't know why you're saying GM when it's so obvious you only ever "played" dnd 5e

>>96552781
When the argument is lost, insults become the tool of the user.
>>96552796
>>96554362
>>96554654
>>96554950
Read it again. Did anything mention that the goblins came up from behind? The human was in front of the party, the exit was to their backs, the goblins came to join the human(who was in front of the party) and when the orc attacked the human, the goblins attacked him. He was also the only one who chose to fight, and everyone else opted not to, so that's why the goblins got 30 free attacks. They also read the writing on the wall, with the exit to their backs and a goblin horde in front of them, to run for it. And they lived!

>>96555632
Become the tool of the loser*
Fucking phone posting autocorrecting

>>96552960
Yep

>>96555632
Nothing really mentioned the goblins joined the human either and the only entryway mentioned was the exit behind the party.
At least 1 other person itt thought they came from behind, so it wasnt just me either.

>high-alert bandits: guard every entrance and send out a small patrol when they see something odd.
>high-alert goblins: leave their leader unguarded until he summons them, and leave the exit completely unguarded when adventurers are raiding the place
Who wins?

>>96529885
Something like Minor Illusion would be absolutely useless if you just took the RAW effect
>uhh actually they just take the Investigate action no matter what the illusion is

>>96555950
What non-meta gaming reason would investigate an illusion anyway?

>>96555632
>insults become the tool of the user.
Nice English there saar. The insult was flavor for you getting proven wrong, not the main course, not that a retard like you would be able to tell the difference.

>>96556128
>you got proven wrong because.... because I said so!
Lmfao delusional playoid tranny. Go dilate
>>96555841
More people knew the situation that was at hand.

>>96556128
>human disguised as monster is goblin leader
>30 goblins are called to the altar room
>"nothing says the goblins joined him"

>>96556571
The dalit got caught lol

>>96555679
Nope.

>>96549291
You're completely right, players constantly do this gay shit where they pick some aspect of the environment and bullshit a flimsy way they can use it to solve the current encounter, even though it would be completely impossible in real life for multiple reasons and so goofy you wouldn't see it in even the worst action movie. It's not creativity, it's bullshitting, and it doesn't make a fun or satisfying game with it's constantly allowed.

>>96556702
No.

>>96555950
How would you know there's something to investigate?

>>96558932
Exactly
It's the one part where you need to roleplay and I'm sure there are still trog GMs who can't see beyond the rules text

>>96514391 (OP)
Is this bait?
>How about using the tools in your toolbox
That's exactly what they're doing you idiot. They're trying to use the environment to their advantage, just as they should.

>>96559062
Games are about solving problems given constraints, and the fun is in doing so creatively
The problem is that bad players (most players) think they're being creative when they're really just refusing to engage with the scenario presented

>>96559413
Using the environment is engaging with the scenario. The environment is part of the scenario.

>>96556702
If your players are ten years old, then those approaches are pretty creative. You might even want to reward them with success. Pandering to adults who should know better that way is just disgusting though.

>>96563301
The GM doesn't "reward" the players with success. The resolution mechanics decide if a particular action has the intended result.

>>96563326
RPG mechanics aren't usually written in a way that allow you to just mechanically determine the result of all such actions without subjective GM judgements. Of course, that doesn't mean that the GM can't try to figure out a reasonable outcome without trying to reward or punish players, but sometimes it makes sense to reward entertaining or creative approaches (but of course, the bar for that should be far higher for adults than for ten year olds).

>>96563360
Actually there's always a way to use the mechanics.

>>96563364
Being able to somehow use the mechanics, does not mean that the mechanics are sufficient to determine the result. I can use a "attacks do 3d6 damage" mechanic as inspiration to decide what happens when characters talk to each other. Just treat it as attacks and have them take damage. That's still an arbitrary GM judgement though (and of course retarded as well).

>>96563406
Wrong. I don't need "inspiration". My system covers everything.

>>96563421
Concession accepted.

You lose.

>>96563408
I never said I'm using your system, nor does the OP mention any specific system.

>>96563504
Your failing.

>>96563508
Yeah, you are :)

I win.

>>96564679
Literally just stop talking to the one kid. It's not too hard. One retard does not ruin an entire thread when you can just ignore him. He's incredibly obvious.

>>96565247
Do not act like this guy is the only problem poster on /tg/ that the mods refuse to do anything about. It's joever, anon.

>>96528043
>Both of those scenarios could be taken advantage of over "the bandits know there's people now and they are looking for you"
Why the absolute fuck are you assuming omniscience on the bandits' part? The point is that regardless of what alternative you offer, the fact that "fires don't just happen for no reason" remains true and so the top priority for bandits would be going on high alert until they figure out the arsonist.

Now if they players have an illusion spell to blame the fire on a non-existent imp/dragon? Then you have a point.

>>96564679
tg is the shitposting board dumbass

>>96515687
Didn't you used to post this lame ass story in That Guy threads like 6 years ago?

>>96549291
You are not gonna have a good time DMing Daggerheart, buddy. Stick to Pathfinder.
Also, you are a shit DM.

>>96514391 (OP)
Tools like stalactites, flour, and heavy objects, you mean?

>>96549291
There isn't any way of being creative that doesn't respect the GM and the rules. There is no such thing as abuse in the context of playing a game.

>>96571228
*farts on you*
That was pretty creative AND disrespectful huh?

>>96571613
Dumbfuck.

>>96566141
>Why the absolute fuck are you assuming omniscience on the bandits' part?
>>96566141
>top priority for bandits would be going on high alert until they figure out the arsonist
Ironing

>>96519165
>Go play an mmo instead faggots.
Idiotic take. The entire point of ttrpg is they're only limited by imagination. The answer to "would I be able to do x?" in an MMO is either "yes the button for that is here" or "fuck no the devs didn't code that".

Tabletop is the only place where you an say "hey DM I think this is cool and within my character's abilities, can we homebrew something?"

The only reason for a DM to say no is if they are too lazy to work with the player. No, balance is a reason because as the DM you can set the balance yourself.

>>96521370
Why would stalactites deal less damage than attacking normally? I think a several hundred pound rock spike falling from the ceiling would do more damage than a crossbow bolt, even with magic enhancements. But I see it being very situational. For one, you might not be able to even dislodge a stalactite with a bolt, arrow or bullet. You would need to spend some time studying the ceiling to find one that's loose or cracked at the base to have a sure bet, and that assumes there is sufficient lighting to see it at that range. So there is a definite opportunity cost involved. Second, I agree that they would be easier to dodge. But I could see them being useful against large, slow, tanky monsters. Finally, there is risk in doing this, you could destabilize the entire gallery/chamber and cause a cave in. Players doing this should be aware of the chance of them causing a "rocks fall, everybody dies" situation of their own making.

I agree with you on the dust on invisible enemies, assuming it's the invisibility spell. Any dust or flour or whatever will turn invisible when it interacts with the magic invisibility field. However I could see powder on the ground being displaced and tracked around by an invisible foe being useful to sus out their general location.

Agree 100% on flying enemies, that idea is just retarded. Let me just throw my bedroll on the flying dragon, that'll learn him.

>>96529834
>"just let players do whatever they want bro"
Yeah, this. Just this. You let players do whatever they want. You decide the consequences of their actions, which may not always be what they are imagining. In the instance of wanting to collapse the room by destroying the pillar, you were right to tell him it may not be as easy as he's imagining. You might also warn of the idiocy of trying to collapse a room you are standing in. In your scenario, he is indeed wrong for whining about that reality. But he isn't wrong for asking about the possibility

>>96552354
Almost like different GMs run rules differently for various systems. Running everything RAW tends to be retarded in many ways, and experienced GMs find things in most systems they think are stupid, annoying, or unwieldy.

The problem is when you have a novice GM (either overall or to a particular system and its quirks) trying to change up the rules and adjust things without understanding what they're fucking up downstream.
Perfect example for me - new PF1e GM ruled that there was a crit on an elemental, which generally are immune due to lack of discernible anatomy. Someone mentioned this and he said, 'rule of cool wins though!' Then another player asked, 'so we can crit elementals from now on?'

>>96549291
I understand why you posted this, and in with an angry tone. You must've had to deal with some fucktarded players in your time as GM.

This sort of posting, while off-putting, is exactly what is needed to filter out a lot of the chaff when it comes what constitutes the pen and paper 'community' of players nowadays.

>>96553107
That is the problem, wholesale, with the modern tabletop games community. You have to dig for players who don't want to get their special snoflayk character sucked off and have every encounter be a foregone conclusion of victory.

>>96537778
>plenty of real life players consider npcs and enemies to operate more on video game logic
Exactly. If they want retarded video game AI then they should go play one instead, not expect a GM to simulate retarded video game AI in a pen and paper game.

>>96529854
And it will also encourage them to constantly try and do it in the future. I've made that mistake before.

>>96552744
No, Mr. Player, I expect you to die!

>>96514838
>Most fights don't take place in an empty, featureless white room
You are right, but there's definitely a point where trying to be crazy all the time just slows the game down, and puts unnecessary strain on the GM.
>I pick up a small rock and throw it at him
because you're in a trail or cave is not the same as
>Are there any stalagtites hanging right over the enemy so I can break them

I am not sure why it's just the consensus that the GM (who may I remind you, already does 90% of the work required to get the game going), also has to be infinitely flexible and cater to everything you want to do. Like for some reason there is no world in which maybe a GM isn't a professional fucking GM from your le critical cringe youtube videos.

Tiresome, really.

>Not adding mechanical features to things you can randomly find in the room
ngmi

>>96575030
Because proficiency and ease of use is more effective than raw power. It's like asking why we would ever shoot people with bullets when you can try to run them over with a tank.

>>96575754
I mean, yeah. 3e adventures had stats for tripping on stalagmites, giants breaking stalactites to use as a club, bonuses for hiding behind statues, damage for improvised weapons in a room etc

>>96574884
Not ironic.

>>96575184
Nope, not a problem. Using the environment is good.

>>96575249
So what? If a tactic is effective, you should use it. What's the problem?

>>96575422
Using the environment isn't trying to be crazy. Breaking stalactites / collapsing a structure doesn't require the GM to be infinitely flexible. All you have to do is adjudicate the results of the action according to the rules, which is exactly what you do every round.

>>96576708
I'm not aware of any systems in which you just have stalactite combat rules. If you don't see how having to come up with a bunch of house rules for all the random stuff in the environment you might wish to use (the OP mentioned a blanket) - not to mention breaking the flow to constantly look around mentally and decide whether or not something is available - isn't a huge time sink then I don't know what to tell you.

At some point you have to deal with the fact that not everyone is a great GM like you are anon, some people are just kinda trying to have fun and trying their best.

>>96576752
>>96537841
Pretty straightforward.

>>96576758
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not.

>>96576830
What do you think is the joke?

>>96576830
Well?

>>96530182
It's not hard to outsmart a mongoloid such as yourself

>>96576830
Well?

>>96575220
>bandit sees fire
>metalgearsolidalertnoise.wav
>"A fire? There must be players about!"
>siren icon appears over the bandit's head as he runs to the alarm bell
>red vision cones appear all over the minimap as he rings it
Anon he literally described Far Cry 2.

>>96577834
Nothing you quoted appears in his post.

The idea that there could be this force of bandits significant enough to justify an entire fort and its attendant maintenance and logistics requirements is pretty absurd, assuming that, as bandits, their primary source of income is robbing random assholes on the road. Most wealth wasn't held in currency. These guys must be real retards.

>>96577846
Nope you lose.

>>96576830
Well?

>>96577863
Fable 1 did it so it's ok

>>96577863
It's called protection racket. You set up in a region, demand money, and murder anyone who doesn't pay you. It happened a bunch in Italy during the middle ages and early modern period.

>>96519441
Nigga it's limestone, not fucking granite or basalt or obdurium from Planet K-Pox. Swear to fuggin jesus niggerman christ, every time y'all try to assert your smartiness, you baffle me with your dumbliness.
Here's a fucking tip, it's fucking make-believe, and your fucking one job is to convince those bumbling boobs that they have overcome great adversity so they can go back to their shitty non-fantasy lives with their shitty non-Elfin wives and their shitty unenchanted knives feeling like they're ready for some isekais. God damn

>>96578403
It's granite.

Goddamnit, granite again! Fuck you Mojang, you ruined Minecraft.