Thread 96531800

Alchemy edition

>Previous Thread
>>96501567
>Pastebin
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>Mediafire
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https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
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https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
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>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
What are your three favourite merits?

>>96531800 (OP)
>TQ

Striking Looks, because it can be used for more than just "attractive". Iron Stamina, because it's so fucking good for combat characters. Courtoisie, from the 2e Covenants book, because Haughty 1v1 me faggit that lets me attack off of Presence is a wonderful fighting style both in concept and practice.

>>96531828
>Striking Looks
Noice.
But it's a shame CofD doesn't have a one dot version of Animal Magnetism.

>>96531851
>What's more, it bears no relation whatsoever to the character's appearance.
The Ugly Bastard merit.

personal horror

Curseborne is doing more of those weird teaser videos for the PG. Sounds like it'll be getting a pig-shifter splat.

As an exercise I tried to adapt a character to fit into VTM. I’m gathering what’s the closest things I can match with. I will prioritize what can be obtained at chargen.
Here’s my attempt at Hassan of Serenity
-Banu Haquim
-Asphyx 4 (VTR)
-Infectious Bite (+2 points)
-Contagious (+5 points)
-Innate Magical Ability (-5 points, turns poison lethal to vampires)
*OPTIONAL*
-Quietus
-Obfuscate
-Arcane merit/background (-5 points)

So Hassan of Serenity can be found in the Fate franchise. She’s an assassin and her special ability is that everything about her is poison. From her sweat and saliva, to the very air she exhales. Thus she cannot touch anyone without causing death. I tried to replicate it with Contagious, a Nosferatu flaw, with Infectious Bite… except it would be fluffed as poison instead of sickness. To have a discipline that is the closest to her it would be Asphyx up to level 4 to breathe out poisonous mist… though it’s from VTR… I don’t know what mechanically are the differences between V20/V5 and VTR. There’s always Quietus, but it’s just a bit less poison focus. If allowed by the ST, Innate Magical Ability to make poison made by Serenity affect vampires… the rest could be bought if there’s leftover freebies, or in the future with exp.

What do you guys think?

>>96532093
>Thus she cannot touch anyone without causing death.
So many sexy possibilities...

>>96531800 (OP)
>Animal Magnetism
>Iron Will
>Lucky

>>96532093
>Hassan of Serenity
I prefer Hundred Face Hassan myself.

>>96531800 (OP)
>Lucky
Rerolls feel huge
>Daredevil
Raise stakes until botches are too scared to occur
>Code of Honor
+2 on virtue rolls could hypothetically function on one dot in Conscience

>>96531800 (OP)
>Alchemy
Look how hedge magicians need YEARS of study just to have a FRACTION of Matter 2. LOL! LMAO EVEN!!!

>>96532813
I'm fully convinced that the reason the Solificati have their apprentice graduation ceremony be turning metal to gold, is purely to filter sorcerers instead their usual philosophical bullshit about gold representing perfection.

>World's fucked because of the Garou
>Vampires don't give a shit
>Wraith
>Changelings are actively fighting a losing struggle for survival
Guess it's up to the Mages to fix this shit. Again.

Guys, which is your favorite werewolf tribe? Mine is the Glassgnawers :)

Is this book worth it for 50€? I know absolutely nothing about WoD.

>>96533081
no, even as a collection piece imo
haggle away

>>96531800 (OP)
I have a group that I play DnD with, and I, along with a couple of guys from the group, expressed a desire to try out Vampire the Masquerade. But we don't know anything about DMing in this setting. Can we try sorting it out ourselves, or do we have to find a DM with experience of us?

>>96533095
Thanks. I spotted the book in my lgs, buried under a pile of used D&D stuff. I flipped through some pages and the layout seemed kinda... confusing? But I wanted to ask anyway because I've always thought this particular edition is kinda famous

>>96533144
>buried under a pile of used D&D stuff
a bit funny
I just checked DTRPG too, you can get the softcover version for about 30€
doubling that for a used hardcover, no, def no

>>96533144
>I flipped through some pages and the layout seemed kinda... confusing?
NWoD 1e corebook's biggest problem is that it goes a little overboard with the mood-setting in my opinion. It at least keeps all the basic things you'd roll (and dice pools to call for) in one place on page 38.

>>96533140
It's not hard to sort out on your own, but the mechanics are pretty different from d20 stuff so you may need someone to ST at least once to see how it plays and whether you'd like it.

How does Death Rage look like in play in Forsaken 2e? The rules seem pretty harsh to me, does this mean that if you have the moon as a trigger, you would basically have to do the whole cage yourself in the full moon thing?

>>96532093
i have been using fate hassans as assamite npcs for years now and with the exception of the vtr crossover my build for serenity looks pretty much the same, but don't forget that she also has protean: she turned into a house cat in silver fragments and yes the cat was still lethal to touch

Ecstatics beware, there could be a Toreador around.

>••••• When defending a member of your character’s freehold, her mundane attacks deal aggravated damage.

What exactly counts as a mundane attack? Would a firearm count? A grenade? This could be exploitable

>>96533960
uuuuhhhhhhh need a Toreador dommy mommy

>>96533967
>What exactly counts as a mundane attack?
Anything a mortal combatant can do.

>>96533998
Wow, so Summer couriers can turn pretty much anything into dust

>>96534004
So long as they're defending or rescuing someone.

>>96534019
So you can pretty much make a Fey knight that relies on nothing but the power of GUN. Pretty cool honestly.

>>96534047
Or The Changeling With No Name. Walking around righting wrongs and always arriving just in the nick of time to save a Freeholder in danger.

>>96533979
Be Ecstatic with appearance >= 3 and roll arete in a Toreador sugar mommy's territory enough times. It's that simple. Toreadors are the most likely to protect an Ecstatic's avatar, but you can probably kiss it goodbye if she can't control herself.

>>96533140
Don't treat it like some great task to overcome. You figured out D&D, you can figure out a different game.

V20 core in the MEGA, pick it up. It's a massive beast of a core book but don't be intimidated, it's largely that big because of fluff and character options. Use the annotations to find the actual mechanics. Read those. Then read the basic clan QRDs on their pages, those are good enough to give you an idea of what they do.

Pick a city you're familiar with, even in passing, and fill it with the mandatory NPCs. Prince, Sheriff, Primogen, a few other minor vampire players and a couple of prominent mortals. Make PCs with your group, come up with a basic, low level plot for an initial run to see how you like it. Accept that it'll be very jank and unbalanced, don't think about it and just have fun. Don't sweat it if you fuck up rules now and again, that's just a part of learning a new system.

>>96532375
I'm not a powerlevel fag but whenever I see her I just think how she got one-shotted by Iskandar

Plus I have no idea how to replicate her cloning ability in VTM

>>96533873
She does? I'm mostly a (casual) FGO and anime consumers, I only do binge of info on FATE when I'm interested to play something Fate related. I haven't done new research on Serenity before working on this.

>>96532148
She is described as touch-starved in the mobile game. Since you're the only human that can resist her poison she falls madly in love with you (and there's a joke that she tries to snuck into your bed everynight)

>>96534139
The issue is -- I never had to learn DnD that way. I was taught by the same group

>>96531800 (OP)
Would anyone care to check out the current state of my Dragon Splat idea for chronicles of darkness of i posted it here
I got some of the basis done well but need help in direction

>>96533960
Ecstatic-Toreador relations have inspired me to scribble. So now, a wholesome Setite moment.

>>96534214
Can you post the link?

You are discovered after murdering a cult of evil dudes by a police officer with his gun drawn, finger on the trigger, who gets a good look at your face and sees you holding the murder weapon.
>Playing Vampire
>I cast Dominate on the cop and tell him to put the gun down, forget everything he saw for the last 24 hours, and fall asleep. Then I walk away with zero consequences, undetected and free. Vampires are just better than mortals after all, we are never in a position where we have to worry about mortal interference because we can straight up mindrape them with one dot of Vitae expenditure.
Just normal Vampire things
>Playing Werewolf
>I kill the pig and leave. Nobody can get in the way of my power fantasy regardless, I can pretty much solo the entire US military from chargen. Nature is so powerful and awesome! #spiritblessings #fuckthebourgeosie
Just normal Werewolf things
>Playing Changeling
>I spend Willpower to enhance my Subterfuge dice pool, cast my clause that lets me impersonate a person of high social standing for a circumstantial bonus, then I construct a very carefully thought out lie that I'm with the FBI and had to defend myself by picking up this strange sword after I was disarmed of my standard-issue handgun. I should have a dice pool of about 16 with Subterfuge 5, Presence 5, and all my assorted buffs and benefits in play. I go on to explain-
>GM: He asks to see your badge.
>I, uhhh, yeah I don't have one.
>GM: Yeah sorry but you were caught red-handed and completely compromised. He has no reason to believe you and his brain is already in takedown mode. Even if you were the best liar in the universe, you would still be arrested on the spot whether or not he believed you, just as standard procedure in a situation like this. So, out of pity since you spent Willpower and Glamour on this, I'll let you have a chance die to see if some sort of miracle happens.
Freddie the Changeling went to prison.

>>96534181
Well, time to repay the favor. Learn VtM and run it for them.

>>96534315
It's in a doc that can be commented on. Just wanted interest first before just posting the thing if it was for no one
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11sUtiIqPA-T9l8ToHyaAAk4et_Pj0J6iRgWbjGWj5ns/edit?usp=drivesdk

>>96534423
Thanks, i remember seeing it and wanting to read it but forgor about it after a long shift.

>>96534381
Bro, just use Grandeur. And if your ST is a dick, Dictum can make everyone your bitch. Or use Dream Logic, and convince him you are the President of the USA and needed to kill the dudes.

>>96534445
You can make it up to me by leaving some comments and keeping it going here

Oblivion 4 for stygian shroud or Fortitude 4?

VTM 5 btw

>>96534175
>She does? I'm mostly a (casual) FGO and anime consumers, I only do binge of info on FATE when I'm interested to play something Fate related. I haven't done new research on Serenity before working on this.
She has the shapeshift skill, but for some reason she only has it in her profile in silver fragment not fate/go despite it also being what she is using to appear as a normal human being mask of the thousand faces style

althought the animal form is not really something she uses again and it's not important for the character concept so if you are using her as basis for a player character and thus have to use exp for that build i would probably ignore it

>>96534423
Thanks

>>96534470
That's nice for oWoD Changelings but I don't see how it helps NWoD Changelings be any less gimped and trash than they already are.
>have dream magic, can't do anything with it unless they're in the Hedge and thus turning themselves into giant glowing beacons to be hunted by hobgoblins and gentry
>even without that glaring weakness they still can't hurt people in their own dreams, no matter how much they invest into Contracts and the Empathy skill
>there is literally no point in ever using Oneiromancy at any point at all, Changelings get zero benefit from it and instead have to risk their skins to do it
>All the good Contracts require massive amounts of XP to use
>You can't even use the good Contracts without also spending Willpower
>You also need high Wyrd so that you can spend that much Glamour in a single turn
I seriously can't get over how fucking worthless changelings are. The more I re-read the core book the worse it gets. Even when you push to High Wyrd, which will cost you hundreds of xp to accomplish, you're still turning yourself into a walking lighthouse for the Gentry to hunt so you're effectively committing suicide just so you can turn yourself into a walking blob of fire that somehow only does half your Wyrd in Lethal damage per hit. It's like the game is actively punishing you for playing as a changeling. Or what about the super strength Contract of Stone that doubles your Strength so you're finally able to do some real damage... except you can't use it for combat at all?

>>96532093
I feel like, you can just create her with a pure Assamite Elder build. Something like

Hassan of Serenity
5th Gen Methuselah
STR: 5 CHA: 4 PER: 6
DEX: 8 MAN: 6 INT: 7
STA: 6 APP: 6 WIT: 8

Disciplines:
Quietus 8
-Blood of Destruction (Quietus 8)
-Body of Destruction (Combo Discipline: Quietus 8, Fortitude 5)
--Every melee and physical attack permanently deals Aggravated Damage equal to Quietus rating. This is passively active.
Quietus 7
-The Last Breath (Custom, upgraded version of Blood of Cobra where you do a large breath attack instead of just spitting)
Celerity 6
Fortitude 6
Protean 5
Auspex 5
Potence 3

>>96532987
Is this from a hunter's book or a typo?

>>96533538
I'll try to keep it brief. If you have the moon trigger than yeah every time your auspice in the sky, you have a chance of freaking out. Caging yourself will do little for your warform. The real issue about death rage is that if you enter it, you attack everyone including your packs. It also means that if the party has too large of a difference in primal urge they could kill they first person who passes out from death rage. It's pretty much up to the gm if that happens or not though. Death rage is bad in forsaken almost all the time. It's just there to prevent players from remaining in their warform all the time. Even the gift Father's Form might not be worth the risk.

>>96534381
Is this new world of darkness, correct?

>>96534503
>She has the shapeshift skill, but for some reason she only has it in her profile in silver fragment not fate/go despite it also being what she is using to appear as a normal human being mask of the thousand faces style

Oh, I see… wait, I thought the form in >>96534175 was just her normal appearance? It’s not her real form?

>althought the animal form is not really something she uses again and it's not important for the character concept so if you are using her as basis for a player character and thus have to use exp for that build i would probably ignore it

Yeah, all concepts that I’m trying to adapt is from the perspective of a player character, with an emphasis on chargen. Mostly because I want to play characters from other franchises.

>>96534570
Could work as an NPC, like said above I personally go for concepts that I can play

>>96534682
>Oh, I see… wait, I thought the form in was just her normal appearance? It’s not her real form?
all the hassans are not meant to have a face under their their mask at all. The only time we a hassan truely unmasked is when sakura sees cursed arm unmasked in stay night and talks about how he fully lost his humanity and identity because he just has a skull under his skullmask and that makes his wish to live forever as a legend stupid. Although i am not sure which explaination they give for shining star having one despite not having the shapeshift skill because while i used to be realllly into fate i kinda tuned out during the fate go order calls

serenity also uses it to get her normal skin color back (notable if you build her as banu haqim i guess) when acting as a normal person and it's also mentioned (but not shown) that she can also impersonate people with the skill which is why i compared it to the mask of the thousand faces before

>>96533960
I love how unintentionally (?) grotesque this image is. lmao

>>96534555
This guy is talking out his ass.

>>96534381
>not using Metamorphosis 1 to turn the cop black so he arrests and/or shoots himself
ngmi

>>96534578
It's from Tzimisce Revised and there's no typo. It's written in character.

>>96534845
At this point I'm convinced you fuckers have never even read the goddamn book because apparently you don't even know you can't use oneiromancy outside the Hedge, let alone how much xp it's going to cost to raise your Wyrd to a good level to make Contracts worth using, let alone how much xp it'll cost to get the good Contract dots. You assholes acted like Changelings come out of chargen busted as hell but the sum of 1 and 2 dot contract clauses amount to
>You can tell what this person's fear is. No, not his deepest fear, just one or two fears vaguely based on your number of successes
>You can turn a bit of water into ice. No, not a bunch of water, not without a huge amount of successes.
>You can protect yourself from one (1) element defined when you buy the Contract. No, not weapons made from that element, just natural elemental dangers like cold and stepping on glass.
>You can pretend to be someone important and people will be more likely to believe you. However they still can just ignore this ability at any time if the GM decides it's an inappropriate time or place, or you don't actually look like someone important

>>96534771
>all the hassans are not meant to have a face under their their mask at all. The only time we a hassan truely unmasked is when sakura sees cursed arm unmasked in stay night and talks about how he fully lost his humanity and identity because he just has a skull under his skullmask and that makes his wish to live forever as a legend stupid.

Oh I see. Learning something new about Fate every day. Though personally I think the way to be “faceless” done in Gintama, with the character called Jiraia is better done (and logically makes more sense). The dude burned the skin off his face and wears other faces as masks. Extreme, but less than carving out everything but the skull…

Forgot about the skin color with Banu Haquim getting darker as they get older. Neat how things align themselves coincidentally. Especially when the shapeshifting could be replicated with the illusion of Mask of a Thousand Faces

>>96534897
yeah that is a cooler way to do it if you want it to have a practical reason. but for the hassans it's pretty much just done for dehumanization as the moment you become hassan you are meant to completely give up the person you been before but pretty much all the hassan's failed at this in on way or the other which is why several of them, including serenity, got beheaded by their founder for it

said founder aka king hassan however turned himself into -nothing- but bones and dust while keeping himself alive with nothing but willpower and zealotry so at least it's not like he is a hypocrite about the inhuman standard he wants his assassins to keep

if you want that in game you could ask your st if you can take the caitiff flaw that gives you a additional clan weakness and take harbringer of skull's weakness or take the Styx Baptism merit from lore of bloodlines (this also gives necromancy as inclan which is nice, but not really on theme) although just like the animal form i would consider that be highly optional and not a core part of the character's theme

>>96534958
Yeah, I think I'll class it into higly optional
Also here's a pic of Jiraia, peeling away one of his masks

You know I'm gonna be playing in a Changeling 1e game in the fairly near future and I actually really like how the Lost aren't terribly powerful. Your powers are specific and rely on clever application. If you meet the catch you can spam them. You have a bunch of little template abilities too but at the end of the day you feel like exactly what you are, a human being who was taken away to the land of Fae and came back changed. Over time, a long and dangerous journey that most Lost do not take, you can become a powerful being, a mighty Fae creature. But that's not your starting point. I like that, I think way too much of WoD is concerned on trying to be more powerful than the stuff that came before it, and to me that makes it all feel so boring. I'm looking forward to that game a lot.

I think what also goes unsaid about nWoD/CofD is that the zero exp starting character is a true STARTING character. Fledgeling embraced a week ago vampire. Werewolf fresh off the First Change. Recently escaped changeling. Every character creation section has a chart for additional starting exp. I think 5-10 or so for Hunter is called "survived first contact". My table often has characters begin with additional starting exp if we want a game where the PCs aren't completely new to this life.

>>96535059
honestly that should be a ritual, not sure if it is already, but it should be

>>96534475
I made a couple of comments, I hope they help.

>>96535086
That'd be cool, a version of Mask of a Thousand Faces that isn't an illusion

>learn this easy ritual that the Tremere won't teach you
>First off burn your face away

>>96535065
I hope you have a good time?

Whatever happened to Sikorsky? Did the Sabbat ever find out Galbraith is dead and he's impersonating her?

>>96535151
would be useful against everyone and their grandma who have auspex
>>96535187
bjd reveals that the elders who founded the sabbat knew the entire time but it's not said what happens to the guy just that they are voting for a new regents and lucita is in the running despite not wanting the job

as of v5 lucitagot the job but might be dead (if you belief talley) and another impersonator took her place and i like to belief that this is again just sikorsky again who the regime now just uses a regent body double

>>96535209
How so? If we assume the ritual only change your appearance, any uses of Auspex could detect any other sign that you are a kindred.

Obfuscate 4 grants immunity to Auspex lower than fifth level though.

So what changed after White Wolf was """revived"""?

>>96535209
>it's 3:00 am Zach
>time to fleshwarp yourself into a supple 10/10 mediterranean mamacita again
>it's for the security of the sect, you must understand

>>96535272
yes but i was more thinking about general the disguise function because mask of a thousand faces can be seen through with auspex, but physical changes can't

that's also why the sabbat black hand goes for vicissitude instead of obfuscate for infiltration missions

>>96535279
Nothing.

>>96535279
They started putting a lot of cringe political references into their books because they just couldn't fucking help themselves anymore. Like Changeling 20th anniversary stating that the election of President Obama caused a massive upswell of Glamour throughout the world because people started to have hope again. Or comparing the Unseelie Court's protests against the most wealthy freeholds to Occupy Wallstreet, the Arab Spring, and BLM as examples of 'culture-redefining' nonviolent protest movements. All this shit aged like milk

>>96535312
wonder if all of those are in the translated editions
they tend to have some minor differences
kinda wanted to grab changelin : le songe before it disappears forever, i'll check then

>>96535293
I see, so just the fact that AUspex wouldn't see who's underneath. True, it's alluring

>>96535065
>I like that, I think way too much of WoD is concerned on trying to be more powerful than the stuff that came before it, and to me that makes it all feel so boring.
That's mostly limited to the second edition, especially after the release Mage the Awakening's second edition. You have David Brookshaw and his power fantasies to thank for this.

>>96535312
I wonder what happened to all the edgelords whose only politics were "fuck the system and think for yourself."

>>96533081
Nope. While I think nWoD 1e has a lot going for it the format is weird. That's the core rules for a lot of other games and barely functions on its own. So I'd skip it, especially for the price.

>>96535424
I don't know but I miss them.

>>96533538
The trigger type that affects you is based on Harmony. So for the moon trigger set you've got the Specific trigger of the scene being in moonlight. The Common trigger of seeing your auspice moon. Then the Passive trigger of your auspice moon being in the sky.

At 5 Harmony none of these matters but the further you drift the more you get. So at 3-4 and 6-7 the Specific one is the only one you need to deal with. At 1-2 and 8-9 you add in the Common trigger too. Then at 0 or 10 you add in the Passive. You only need to take extreme steps to avoid it if you're off the deep end already.

Kuruth isn't a guaranteed thing either and it's also fairly useful as a tool too.

>>96535162
Thanks! It's set in Victorian England and I'm planning on playing a Farwalker Ogre of the Autumn Court. He's a working class cockney bloke, served as an attack dog for his keeper before his escape, now he prowls the east end for criminals to terrorize, because he knows the posh cunts would just fuck things up if they tried to handle it their way.

>>96535401
It's also an illness that afflicts oWoD.

>>96535293
>but physical changes can't
Pfft. You don't even know what you're supposed to smell like.

>>96535533
>It's also an illness that afflicts oWoD.
Not nearly to the same degree, I'd argue.

>>96535595
>Not nearly to the same degree, I'd argue.
That's because DaveB's MtAw 2e was clearly made with the underlying thought of "settling arguments", because the old heads here will remember how discussions about cross-splat powerlevels definitely existed in 1e nWoD, it's just they were mostly relegated to threads on the old WW forums, shadowessence, rpgnet etc. The books themeselves were pretty ginger in touching crossovers and power level imbalances, and always with a very obvious "this is just one way to do it" approach.

But clearly DaveB came to his lead dev position clearly wanting to be final word on those dumb discussions, only to end up sparking a way worse version of them in the actual published material and between line devs.

By comparison oWoD devs were more interested in policing playstyles like "superheroes with fangs" or Revised's attempt at forcing Ascension away from "space battles around the rings of Saturn" and more into street-level conflicts.
Power level was less important to them than making sure that you played the "intended way".

>>96535683
now i'm morbidly curious how bad it could get. I've only read the NWoD 1e books so far, you mean Mage 2e is where it all began? Did DaveB do the same treatment to other 2e books as well?

>>96535065
What books would a curious anon who has only ever played VTM need to read to play and run a game of Changeling?

>>96535533
>It's also an illness that afflicts oWoD.
I have to disagree. oWoD from the start tried to nerf most things to the ground across the editions.
Mages are the most obvious example of this but Vampires and to a lesser extent, Werewolves also went through it.

>>96535717
Every 2e book he's worked on has been guilty of some degree of power creep, though his one true love will always be Mage the Awakening. Both the second edition of Changeling the Lost and the second edition of Mummy the Curse (neither of which he worked on) contain rules designed to counteract the mage bullshit that he wrote, which he has openly condemned and criticised. I think he tried a second time to "be the final word" when with Deviant the Renegades, but I think the real reason why the CofD power level arguments stopped was classic WoD regaining popularity over the past five years and Paradox killing CofD.

>>96535733
I'm talking about Lost, specifically 1e as it changed a lot between editions. Lost 1e core would have everything you need, it's a different core ruleset than VTM.

>>96535595
>>96535744
Idk, perhaps they tried to make things weaker in-splat as the editions kept going on, but both Werewolf and Mage turned me off a lot when I was reading their cores with how... masturbatory? they could feel at points. I didn't care for either of them and I kept getting undercurrents of "look how much cooler and stronger we are!".

I think Vampire would benefit greatly from having a system similar to KotE's Yin/Yang and Hun/P'o axis.

>>96535859
Why tho?

>>96535859
didn't they have rules for that in the laibon book?

>>96535863
It allows for more variety in what a vampire is without relying on the relatively one dimensional character of the clans and gives vampires an innate tie to the spirit/underworld which VtM is lacking in comparison to other splats.
>>96535869
Ask one of the three and a half people who have read the laibon book
>>96535869

>>96535834
To break down the psychology behind why you feel that way, I think that's because everyone enters the World of Darkness or Chronicles of Darkness via a particular splat, which usually serves as their favourite. As almost everyone enters the World of Darkness via Vampire the Masquerade, it's very easy to see why someone would look at werewolves and mages and basically every other splat with a critical eye, as they tend to have a broader scope.

>>96535869
>didn't they have rules for that in the laibon book?
They have Aye and Orun and they represent the mundane and magical aspects of the vampire. The sum of them is capped by the character generation.
Every other dot they got a small bonus, and at a 7+ rating those became more outwardly supernatural, like leaving flaming footprints on the ground or not needing to sleep during the day.
It has been years since I read about these guys, so take this with a grain of salt.

>>96536019
sounds neat

>>96535988
>armchair psychology

I just don't like them or what they're about. It's not that deep.

>>96535797
>Both the second edition of Changeling the Lost and the second edition of Mummy the Curse (neither of which he worked on) contain rules designed to counteract the mage bullshit that he wrote
Such as?

>which he has openly condemned and criticised
Now this I have to see!

>>96535312
Have you seen Storytellers Vault's "Harbringers of Winter"? It's hilarious, there's seething about Trump, references to drag queen story hour, redcaps wanting to "make Arcadia great again" and a skill called Wyrmtongue that allows you to ask "wasn't he resisting arrest?".

>>96536197
>Now this I have to see!
Prepare to be disappointed, anon is mostly talking out of his ass.

Does anyone else listen to a particular song or songs to help them get into character before game? One of my buddies tends to put on Type O Negative before game and it got me thinking.

I don't use music to get in character before game, but I do associate certain songs with scenes that have happened (or could happen) in game. In the Sabbat game we played back in 2011-2012, we had a scene during our pack's time in New York that we called the "Monster Montage." We described our characters doing hunting/Games of Instinct cut together like the Kurgan joyride scene from Highlander set to Cars by Gary Numan and now whenever I hear that song I think of that scene.

Come to think of it... the New York segment had a lot of scene+song pairings that stuck with me.

>>96536267
yeah sure. it's a good way to get in the right headspace

>>96536197
Mummies have an ability called Rebuke the Vizier can potentially shut down anything offensive that mages might try on them. David Brookshaw has publicly kvetched about it and he's also taken issue with the massive power spike that changelings got in Kith and Kin with the introduction of hexes, if I recall.

>>96536407
damn, he does sound like a lameoid
>this one mage power should ALWAYS win in any contest of wills because... I said so

>>96536407
Magefags are subhuman. Mage was a mistake.

>>96536439
I have been saying this since Awakening came out but please don't put Ascensionfags alongside Awakeningfags.
We Ascensionfags already suffer nerfs every edition, unlike Awakeningfags with their author bias in every corner.

I haven't been around in a bit. Where's the game at, in like a company sense? Are there still three concurrently running versions of WoD, or did White Wolf shut down chronicles and 20th anniversary editions so more people would pay attention to their new fifth edition?

>>96536516
>Ascensionfags
Cucked by the Tremere.

>>96536573
Nta but Tremere are author's pet in WoD. Their survival is frankly a plot hole, and not just because of Order of Hermes fucking up.
But also Ventrue, Tzimisce and Nosferatu fucking up.

>>96536564
Paradox still owns the rights to the World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness.
Paradox refuses to allow Onyx Path Publishing to make any further Chronicles of Darkness or 20th Anniversary World of Darkness games.
Onyx Path Publishing is getting around this by working on a new franchise called Curseborne which is the same sort of urban horror franchise, just rebranded.
White Wolf has been reborn as a holding company under Paradox after being dissolved by Paradox.
It's suspected that White Wolf will be used to somehow shift the financial failure of the soon-to-release Bloodlines 2 off of Paradox.

>>96536407
Yeah but hexes are written incredibly poorly, they're basically just an "i win" button.

>>96536650
>Onyx Path Publishing is getting around this by working on a new franchise called Curseborne which is the same sort of urban horror franchise, just rebranded.
That's not really a circumvention of anything. They've just now moved on to making their own shit, it's a soft spiritual successor but it's not super close to WoD from what I've sene.

>>96534824
I just wanted a simple thousand yard stare meme about the Ecstatics' and their #1 fans/predators.

>>96536789
It's an urban fantasy horror game like World/Chronicles of Darkness featuring vampires and mages and werewolves and more like World/Chronicles of Darkness and uses a variant of the Storyteller system that World/Chronicles of Darkness use. It shares so much DNA with World/Chronicles of Darkness that I think treating it as its own unique and independent thing would be disingenuous.

>>96536855
Right but so is treating it like it's some version of WoD. Because it's not. Like I said, it's a soft spiritual successor but it's fairly obviously distinct and it's more different from WoD than any of the actual WoD iterations are from each other.

>>96536875
We can agree to disagree then.

Question for the folks that have been following Curseborne: what can you tell me about the general setting? And since comparisons are inevitable, what differences does each gameline have in relation to their WoD/CofD counterpart?

>>96536924
The general gist of the setting is that every bit of bad luck and strangeness in the world are curses, at least in the broad strokes. They spread over the world in a tangled web of cause and effect in a way that's not too dissimilar to other settings' notions of fate, and manipulating these curses is how magic is performed. Powerful curses are responsible for creating all the playable splats (accursed). There isn't a strictly enforced masquerade, and the culture of the world treats the supernatural as more of a reality. It's not a "everyone knows vampires exist" sort of thing but it's a "most people think ghosts are real, have had some sort of spooky encounter, and ghost hunting TV shows are far more popular than IRL". Where oWoD and CofD is more about the spooky stuff being in the background, here there is a fairly prominent shift to the culture because of it. You still get people who don't believe and rationalise stuff away but it's less common than IRL. There are other non-accursed supernaturals living in the world too, sometimes openly.

There are also a slew of realms beyond Earth's reality collectively known as "the Outside" that covers all your classics; paradises, underworlds, eldritch dreamscapes, and so on. Earth is encroaching into the Outside and creating "liminalities" that cover all your strange locations (and sometimes people) like haunted houses, that spot in the woods people vanish in, or that industrial hellscape that seems to pen you in and try to keep you trapped. Where the Outside encroaches on Earth you get "Battlegrounds" that are much more hostile and dangerous, but much harder to just stumble into. There are also things called Shattered Spaces that intelligent liminalities with their own will and desires, who are represented with stat templates. Plus weirder things like whole eras of frozen time called Epochs.

Small bit of pedantry but there aren't any gamelines here, it's a monster mash from the jump, but I'll do a splat's next.

So, is it possible to convert VTR disciplines into VTM?

I've never touched VTR, and like I said earlier I was interested with Asphyx.

>>96537088
1e Disciplines would be pretty easy to drop in, look into the VtR Translation Guide.

>>96537088
Theoretically. I do it the other way around though.

>>96537088
>>96537099
>>96537118
Broadly speaking, what are the differences between VtM and VtR’s mechanics? (Classic VtM, not V5)

>>96537127
VtR is usually a three part dice pool, subtracted or versus a two part pool. VtM is usually a two part dice pool where the difficulty (what constitutes a success on each die) of the roll itself is determined by your foe's stats or the situation.

>>96537099
alright

>>96537118
oh...

>>96537268
The Vampire Translation Guide has a section about going from VtR to VtM, including disciplines. Go read it. You'll only really need to change some of the basic dice stuff.

>>96536267
I used to compile playlists of the songs quoted throughout the books. It gives you a real feel for what the world is supposed to be, at least how the writers envisioned it. Helps inspire me to roleplay as a Garou at least.

>>96537268
I mean you do you if you're familiar with VTM. I just figure if I'm gonna convert across the editions I'd do the one with the mechanics I prefer, which is Requiem.

>>96537088
Just read the Vampire and Demon translation guides for fuck sake.

Tremere are fundamentally cucked. They gave up their avatars and true magic, the path to godhood, to be B movie monsters. That’s why they are mad all the time, unlike other vampires they know how cringe they are

>>96536924
You've got Lineages ("gamelines"), and then Families, which are your subtypes. Each Lineage shares a core set of mechanics for stuff like "what's a vampire like", a drawback that is modified by their Family (mostly), and then three "Practices" that are their magical abilities sorta like Disciplines but broader, with no order of acquisition, and spells themselves have unique upgrades. The family divides are about one or two core themes and then how their drawback is unique. I won't go over all the families because I'm not sure you want to read that much, but some of them get weird

The Hungry are vampires and are also fairly close to Vampires in the broad strokes. Their Practices are a mix of Dominate/Presence/Majesty, then Obtenebration, but also blood magic that isn't particular evocative of either Vampire. Otherwise they do, or can, hit a lot of the themes you'd expect. They're not strictly bound by the sun but it's still not good for them, and while they can blood buff doing so incurs a folkloric bane each time. They also go on hunger frenzies but each Family has a hunger beyond blood, and those can get pretty esoteric like emotions or memories.

Primals are a similar deal. These guys don't differ as much from a power perspective, their Practices are about shapeshifting, aggression, and trickster stuff. They also turn into a hybrid monster man that wants to kill. However unlike Werewolf that form is very mutable and your fishman might not turn into the exact same sort of thing each time. They also differ in that Families are fairly broad, Lykans might be mostly wolves but they're not just wolves, and rather than a spirit aspect they're elemental in nature. Each Family has an associated element and the Creature that grants them their abilities is more like the Vampires' Beast. Each Family's Creature also have a different drive it pushes on the Primal, which fully takes hold when they rage, and they more embody their animal and element when that happens.

>>96536924
While the first two are closeish, at least without Families in the mix, Sorcerers are where it stops lining up too well. They're the magic splat, and much like MtAw they're very addicted to said magic, but that's sorta about it. Their deal is more focused around the sacrifices they have to make in order to fuel that magic. They're not free form casters but they do have means of casting more readily, by invoking magical blow back somewhat like Paradox but they don't have to worry about being seen or whatever. If they want to cast spells for free then there will be consequences to deal with, but otherwise they're fine. They get 7 Practices too, which each Family starting with 3, so they're broader than the rest as well. The sacrifices mean Families are more about what they're giving up then they are about their broad philosophy on magic itself. Like the old money Premieres who hoard everything they can because time and energy is their sacrifice. So more, well, Sorcerer than Mage

The Dead are ghosts. They're closer to Wraith than Sin-Eater but both comparisons bury the lede. Other than being the ghost splat they don't have a lot in common with Sin-Eaters, but they're also the inverse of Wraiths in a lot of ways. The major one is that they're basically Skinriders on steroids. While they can, and do, spend time floating around as ephemera they need to inhabit a vessel in order to not waste away into nothing, but that can be their own corpse, a different corpse, brain dead person, mannequin, etc. They also have a large emotional aspect like a Wraith's Passions but the emotion itself doesn't drive them, it's a desire to experience the emotion, even by proxy, and it pushes them to fairly extreme ends. Unlike Wraiths and Sin-Eaters there isn't a secondary presence at play here, it's all just the Dead. Arcanoi, Haunts, and Manifestations are so broad that the Dead can't help but have overlap there but they're fairly distinct despite all three being the ghost splat

>>96536924
Finally, we've got Outcasts. These are the ones that don't really have a good point of comparison. They're closest to Demons and Changelings but not really. They're born mortal but suffer a largely hereditary curse thanks to sharing their family tree with some otherworldly being. That can be a demon, but it can be an angel, eldritch horror, or near enough anything else. As mentioned the Outside covers a lot of space and so these guys are similarly varied. Although what it likely isn't is Fey as those are a whole other deal here. They're between human and the Outside and that liminal nature is a large part of their mechanics. They can let some of that bleed through to take a semi-liminal form that's enrapturing and terrifying in equal measure, and they can teleport themselves and others to a Battleground they know of. They're also virtually impossible to kill, even by their own hand, and if something would they'll reform later. But being apart from humanity as they are this strips them of any strong relationships they might have. Their Families are all built around how they see their imprisonment, and how that separates them from humanity. Their Practices also don't align massively well here either as Mayhem, Summoning, and Physical Perfection all quite neatly brush past the more explicit purviews of things like Lores or Embeds. There is still overlap but it's not emulation of iconic abilities here like with the Hungry or Primals.

There are a fair few other things I didn't mention either, like Torments. Each Lineage gets a selection of things that work sort of like Vices from CofD, but are more tailored to the splat in question. There are also Accursed that are more strongly aligned with the core Lineage than their Family, which changes things up. A Hungry like that doesn't feeding frenzy for their Family's hunger but instead vast quantities of blood. There is also a pseudo(?)-Lineage of hunters coming, as well as Accursed who simply don't have a Family.

>>96537847
I want to like this game. I really do, but I just can't. Every time I read something about Curseborne, I get bored/uninterested.

>>96538038
Other games out there anon.

>>96535834
>Lost 1e core would have everything you need
You'd also need the nWoD core book to fill out rules if you insist on playing 1E. 2E has complete ruleset in the splat cores.

>>96536407
Huh. I remember last I left this place it was basically wall to wall power scaling fights about mage, granted this was shortly after beast came out. Have people kinda turned on Dave since then?

>>96536407
Weird thinking, especially since the point of Mummy is that they have "Walking Nuke" powers upon awakening that fade until they return to sleep.

>>96538125
I think it's more accurate to say that most of the old regulars left /tg/ for god. Until 2020, CofD was possibly more popular than WoD in these threads, having cultivated a cult following over the last fifteen years. However, there's been a massive drop in posters on /tg/ since Covid as people move on from the hobby, or at least the board. All of the CofD-loving regulars were gradually replaced with people introduced to the World of Darkness by the fifth edition, or by Bloodlines, or by Hunter the Parenting. People started speaking about Werewolf the Apocalypse and Mage the Ascension, when years ago, even Vampire the Masquerade discussion was buried beneath an avalanche of Mage the Awakening power wankery and arguments over what the right way to play Changeling the Lost is.

>>96534381
Yes 1e Lostlings are underpowered, take a look at 2e to see how strong they can get.
A starting Changeling can just forbid the cop from breathing until he licks his left ball with a Hex

>>96538411
>A starting Changeling can just forbid the cop from breathing until he licks his left ball with a Hex
Why are changelings so horny? Is that a side effect of living in arcadia?

>>96538460
90% of durances are like being trapped in a twisted BDSM lifestyle relationship as the submissive, without your consent. The particular fetish that serves as the foundation of the relationship dictates your kith, whether that's petplay, sadomasochism, objectification, or whatever else. Changeling the Lost is subtextually extremely horny.

>>96538571
Being turned into a terrible fey queen's bedside lamp is hot, but maybe not in the way that you'd like.

>>96538644
Well, maybe not the queen's lamp, but someone turned into her vibrator.

>>96538411
1e was also busted with the pledge system but that took more game time to abuse, allegedly.

>>96538361
I'm still here. I was the one trying to do Ascension and CtD posting in between all the Awakening, VTR and CtL discussion and slap fights. There were periods where I'd leave the general for months because the resident autists were insufferable. Funnily enough these threads have improved massively, despite 4chan thread quality nosediving hard in the last 8-9 years lol.

Those Euthanatoi are a bunch of meanies >:(

>>96536924
>Curseborne Pros
Core book is about a variety of monster types that can easily intermix, and more variance within those. i.e the shapeshifter splat isn't just werewolves but a variety of things with a variety of themes
All in one core book that isn't missing any major elements and support multiple modes of play
Potency stat isn't an XP tax
Easier to homebrew new character options
Universal enemy creation system taking the best bit from CofD's Antagonists, Horrors, etc
Better chapter ordering (probably layout and editing too but the book isn't done)
Building on 20+ years of experience, and starting in a "2e" of its system

>Cons
Less depth on any specific splat
Core book doesn't scale as high, so no elder PCs currently
Doesn't have 20 years of support, so less detail, less stuff, less options

>Eventual Pros
Three tiers of play that have more significant changes, each will get new tiers of spells for example

>Neutral
Different systems, quite similar but also very different and while I would generally say CB's Storypath Ultra system is stronger overall, it's going to be personal preference. Some things I prefer, other things I don't. It's more streamlined and has less clunky subsystems, but that might mean less of the bits you liked
No major power level variance between the splats
They're tonally different, it's more punk than CofD, more found family than oWoD etc
The setting is also very different, less about layers of reality and a handful of big realms and more about a myriad of realms outside of reality (and bleeding in) and an web of curses that tie things all together similarly to fate. No real masquerade, but not all out in the open either
It's a more cohesive setting, everything feels like it's connecting back to some shared elements rather than say WtF and GtSE basically being entirely separate. Curses are very universal, all the splats pull from them, and it's also had a greater effect on culture
A lot of in-character text for splat descriptions

>>96539141
State your tradition/whatever.

>>96538038
How come?

>>96539148
Ecstatic. This matters why?

Etherites are trying to sneak pic related into the consensus.

>>96539231
I mean... the plastidiesel guy got TWO big paradox backlashes.
You're safe.

>>96539203
Dunno, man. My dick just doesn't react, you know?

>>96539204
lol
kys

>>96539249
There is art of a naked witch with nice tits, it's got all you need.

>>96539256
Show me the picture and I'll let my dick be the judge.

>>96539259
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/nJBB9e

>>96539275
4/10

Tremerebros, why isn't my binding ritual working?

>>96538934
Honestly, it does feel a bit healthier. Though the focus has shifted towards the classic World of Darkness, there's a decent split between vampires, werewolves and mages with a little bit of the others thrown in for spice. Back when Chronicles of Darkness was the focus, it really did seem like every conversation was either Mage the Awakening fans doing some white room spitballing, Changeling the Lost fans arguing over how the game should be played and Mage the Awakening fans antagonising Changeling the Lost fans by talking about how mages can totally make True Fae their bitches.

>>96539606
the white spot on the cat was primium coating

>>96539764
Wait, how did it get there?
Is the demon possessing the cat the one who had primium?

>>96539231
1970s. It's actual Get Smart tech.

>>96539606
if it is a cat you need to use the setite version

>>96539920
...
>Until the early nineteenth century, Quidditch was played on day brooms of varying quality. These brooms represented a massive advance over their medieval forerunners; the invention of the Cushioning Charm by Elliot Smethwyck in 1820 went a long way towards making broomsticks more comfortable than ever before
Brucato, at least know what you are talking about.

>>96539920
>a verbena using forces or correspondence to levitate a broom has no idea how to change the laws of physics to make it more comfortable

>>96538737
More game time but also the GM's direct agreement with each and every pledge, meaning they can veto anything that seems like way too much gain for way too little of an oath. Like creating new Contracts or new Courts, it's a feature that could theoretically turn a character into an unstoppable god-fae but only if the GM is asleep at the wheel and ignores the entirety of the ruleset and recommendations that exist to guide how powerful pledges should be in exchange for how restrictive the vow is.
All the high-end pledges in the book have vows that are brutally restrictive ("I pledge to be the literal best in the entire freehold at this one specific activity and if anyone ever beats me at it, I all the blessings I have received for this pledge shall invert and cripple me for life") and a price for breaking them that would render a character practically deadweight if they fail to uphold them. If the GM makes the mistake of letting a player take a Pledge that gives you +3 Wyrd, the penance for breaking it should be that not only is the bonus Wyrd removed but you also lose 3 Wyrd on top of it, which can reduce you to 0 Wyrd and lose access to all Changeling abilities forever. Every point of Wyrd is a big power upswell for a Changeling character because it directly increases the amount of Glamour they can spend per turn and the max Glamour they can store, which is why gaining Wyrd isn't a recommended boon for a pledge and especially not more than 1 point in it per pledge. Though, raising other stats is considered acceptable (and at the GM's discretion this may raise them above the usual 5 dot max).

>>96537007
>>96537847
>>96537852
>>96537859
>>96539143
Thank you for the comprehensive summary, this has been extremely helpful.

>>96540289
I don’t recall being able to up Wyrd with Pledges in 1e, and from what I remember the only bonuses to abilities you can get is an Adroitment, which is a +1 that doesn’t stack

>>96540489
My mistake. The book talked about Pledges empowering changelings but I didn't fully read the Adroitness description to see it's nothing more than what amounts to a free Specialty. I take it all back, pledges are pretty useless.

>>96540580
Don’t rubberband too hard in the other direction, 1e Pledges are still potent. Ability bonuses might be limited, but Merit bonuses much less so. Want your motley to have 5 dots in every single fighting style, no wound penalties, massive bonuses and rote to perception, knowledge of every language in existence, and so, so much more? You can do all that with just one pledge as long as you can balance out the numbers

>>96539920
There needs to be a list of shit Brucato said.
Im being honest, it be at the very least entertaining and helpful to point people towards why he needed to be let go

>>96539920
Brucato for Old Mage, DaveB for New Mage.

Why does M*ge attract the worst writers period?

>>96540637
Honestly one of the few things that I have hope for if they make M5 is that Brucato probably won't be involved

>>96540643
Power fantasies of a specific inclination.

Werewolf attracts the lib-anarchist writers
Vampire has the oddly sexual, overly theatrical, theater kid writers
And Mage gets the "I hate everything that isn't my idea" writers

>>96540643
Brucato is a weird neo-pagan that thinks that magic is real, which is why you're not allowed to play a Nephandus

>>96540744
This sums it up, pretty much. Every splat has some philosophical and/or political angle that attracts certain types, and writers will usually be one of the more extreme ones in those groups.

>>96540744
Changeling attracts otherkin (do they even still exist?)
Hunter the Reckoning attracts chads
Mummy, Wrath and Demon attract no one, because nobody played those games

>>96540810
OWoD Demon seemed like it'd be a home run hit. Who doesn't want to play as fallen angels trying to save humanity now that they've become half-humans? If you built it right, the game practically turns into Shin Megami Tensei

>>96539698
I think powerlevel shit is harmless, Ascension fags are a lot worse, they always seem to be in-character and are always talking about real world politics through the lens of the game factions.

>>96540817
And then it got edited like shit, pissed off a lot of wider WoD lorefags, apparently was badly distributed and didn't even get to finish its limited run before the setting got blown up.
C'est la vie. Didn't even get a D20 version, thanks Paradox.

>>96540847
>pissed off a lot of wider WoD lorefags
This part is weird to me because the premise of Vampire is that God is real and it was his curse of Cain that created vampires as a way of torturing them for being bad people.

>>96540877
Yeah but Werewolf and almost every game afterwards took a hard turn away from that and went into a spirit fuckery/reality is nebulous/eight billion umbral realms kinda setting. yes I'm being a little hyperbolic for dramatic effect It's why a lot of people don't like a combined oWoD, it can be very dissonant.

Demon tried to square that circle while also trying to be the biggest swinging dick, and as a result it pissed everyone off.

>just tried to read the Demon: The Fallen core book
Who the fuck wrote this and thought it was a good idea to present the entire game, setting, lore, and rules through an extended narrative conversation between two characters? Fucking hell, no wonder this game never took off.

>>96540914
that's a thing dtf, htr and some and but not all mage books do where most of the book is inuniverse conversation or chatlogs i think it's meant to be artsy but i fucking hate it too

Fictional citybros, how do you handle placement? Like say I wanted to make a new city in Souf Ingerlund. Would you replace an existing city, just squeeze it in and turn empty land into a new city, just place it on an island for coastal territories etc?

>>96541134
Go with the Metropolis and Gothic City approach. They're both analogous to New York City and exist in the Northeast Megalopolis region of the USA roughly where it is, yet New York City still exists, even though they both sort of fulfil its role.

In your case, I'd figure out what region of South England you want your city to be in, see what other cities exist in that region and then have it occupy roughly the same space as an appropriate city without specifically saying that the original city doesn't exist.

>>96540901
You say "hard turn" but Werewolves themselves know shit, though? They argue all about it. This doesn't even include all other Shapeshifters with different ideas. As for Mage, Mages themselves always go "It could be this or that"

>>96541134
i just say where it's in relation to real cities when asked but keep the geography as vague as i can, i am already making up the entire city after all

one exception is when i made up a city in what is otherwise a baren island but that city had a inuniverse reason for just popping up out of nowhere

Why are werewolves so easy to fuck with as a mage? You can’t exactly blow them up very easily, but you can totally rape their minds or become totally untouchable to them.

>>96541470
Because Mage, Ascension and Awakening, is designed as the ultimate "what if you suddenly woke up one day with the cheat codes to the universe" power fantasy. Mages being the top dogs in terms of power level was very important to be the people who wrote both versions of Mage.

Once again, the werewolf fans prove how thin-skinned they are.

>>96541493
A good storyteller will balance this by making it clear that paradox and quiet are very real. If you’re a mage who doesn’t take that seriously you should canonically be grabbed by paradox spirits and taken to a torture dimension or something along those lines. The highest level archmage are close to gods but they aren’t even able to exist on Earth because their very being creates paradox. They have to move to the umbra or ascend (up and out)

Chad werewolves plowing mage twink bussies

>>96540933
It's hit or miss imo. Some books do it really well, others not so much. It's also a problem because you can't use an in character conversation to dump mechanical information.

>>96541470
no idea, i still find it kinda meanspirited (pun unintended) how the mage revised storyteller book goes: you can counterspell all gifts with the spirit sphere or normally based on the gifts effect if you don't have spirit high enough and here is a spell they can't do anything against (turning the garou itself into silver)

it does nothing of the like for any of the other splats

>>96541540
not wanting to start a fight or anything, but which ones do it good? haven't read any wod books in a short while and i don't have the time to start a actual novel right now

>>96541442
I say hard turn because, even though you can make the argument that the orthodox positions are bullshit, that is the overwhelming majority of what the games deal in. Not to mention, there are certain things that are objective. Maybe the entire theory behind "The Umbra" is bullshit, and that's not how the various unrealities work at all. There's still a bunch of them pockmarking the setting, and many supernaturals exist within these realms or can easily access them, but vampires are almost entirely divorced from these places outside of cross-splat. Which creates the fairly stiff and awkward feeling of "there's vampire, and then there's whatever the rest of the World of Darkness is doing" that many people report.

There's also a lot of tone and theme differences between gamelines, and someone who signed up for a broody story about vampires hiding among the mortal populace, manipulating them and being stuck in schemes that stretch back to the dawn of time may not be that into the idea of druid-esque Werewolves fighting over the top splatterpunk corpo caricatures at the same time just out of frame. Or everything going on in Mage. It's not just a vampire player complaining thing either, flip that around if you're into the other stuff I can see why vampire might feel like a weird, poorly integrated atavism.

If all these things can exist at your table without causing anyone narrative dissonance, more power to you. But it shouldn't be hard to see why a lot of people can't reconcile oWoD into one setting and why Demon's attempt to do so would just piss everyone off.

>>96541516
Unless you're a Taftani in which case you're so based you don't care about what paradox does to you

I know this is a stupid idea but, is there a world where it's feasible to have a mixed party of various monsters? Say hypothetically you have a werewolf, mage, hunter, changeling in one party, each player knows their rulebooks intimately. Would that clusterfuck of a game be possible?

>>96541565
It's done well imo in some of the vtm clanbooks like the tzimisce or giovanni one. Really well done in the og kinfolk book too. Those books are like 90% fluff anyway, so what each splat knows or doesn't know expands the setting in a cool in-universe way.

On the flip side it's done infamously poorly in the children of gaia book and in blood treachery, but blood treachery is ass in general and you don't need me to tell you that.

>>96541724
Theoretically. But it probably would be the most unfun experience possible. I'd also say it'd be slightly more viable in nWoD vs. oWoD because there's more rules for resolving power conflicts and a bit more a universalized "skeleton" (supernatural potency always goes from 1-10, resource pools and resource per turn are more standardized).

But no matter how you slice it, the power levels are all over the place, you'd need to play the balancing act of giving extra points to the people playing weaker monsters, AND the logistical issues would be immense. Most immediate is daysleep, but there's many more.

TL;DR: Theoretically yes, but you really shouldn't.

>>96541724
check out midnight circus, anon
it's basically wod crossover clusterfuck the book

>>96541724
Depends on the splats and how the characters are built.
A party consisting of a combat focused Get Ahroun, a Social focused Ventrue and a Mental focused tinkerer Mage isn't going to step on each other's toes too much.
A party consisting of a Social focused Sidhe, Namaru and Ventrue very much would (though that one could be fun to roleplay if you're all on the same page of pretending to be stuck up assholes doing an American Psycho impression together).
And even in these examples, you're probably going to need to give the Ventrue some extra starting discipline dots to make it even remotely fair.

>>96541724
IMO Nephandi, BSD and Baali working together make the most sense in a party, otherwise there is just too much clash of interest

>>96541724
Yeah. I swear a decent chunk of games in 1st and 2nd edition were like that. Not every splat but it was more common to have Vampires, Mages and Werewolf mix. Hell, I even played it a few times in chronicles like that.

Pretty fun.

>>96541565
i personally like the archons and templar book

the first part is a toreador archon's journal with comments done by a tremere archon and the two really don't like each other while the second part is from the pov of a ex-archons minion who got so fed up with her master that she killed him and defected to the sabbat and now has a job interview with a stoned (weed + addict blood) templar

>>96541565
I liked the story blurbs in the Thrall and Hunter (Damned and Deceived + Saviors and Destroyers) books for demon more than I cared for the rules they added.
Some of the thrall stuff is handy as guidelines, but the hunter book was just full on H5 'only regular street level mortal hunter groups' crap outclassed in rules by Hunters Hunted.
The stories were pretty good at showcasing different types of thralls and hunters, though some of them were fairly convoluted.

PUNCH THE WOOF!

>>96542419
ah sorcerer crusade has some funny artwork

>>96542419
Honestly, some of the best art in WoD includes power armor like that.

>>96538497
Does CtL have descriptions of how each kith is in bed? CtD has.
>sidhe can have sex by holding hands

>>96542419
>>96542528
Weaver and Machine give me power.

>>96542671
>sidhe can have sex by holding hands
THOSE SICK FUCKS!!!11!!!!!!1!! HOW COULD WHITE WOLF EVER PRINT THIS DEPRAVED SHIT??? I remember when WW was more wholesome and family-friendly, with books like Montreal by Night or the Baali Clanbook. I miss those days. BUT THIS SHIT? TOO FAR!!!!!

Changeling the Lost was the one splat improved on in cod. The concept of being tortured by Lovecraftian faeries is extremely metal

>>96542994
Honestly, a refreshing take that has fallen out of fashion in the last few years. People have been shitting on the Gentry and durances for so long that it's nice to see someone who appreciates them.

>>96543026
nta, the recent uptick in people who glaze all of oWoD baffles me too. Vigil also deserves more credit, but at the same time I don't think I've ever seen someone shit on Vigil in the first place.

Am I really the only person who runs a mix of oWoD and nWoD while having many splats from both I don't like at all?

>>96543062
The shitting on the Gentry and durances usually comes for CtL players and CofD fans, from what I've seen. Hedgefag was responsible for a lot of it with the faun-and-elf-femboy-slice-of-life style of CtL that he promoted.

>>96542994
I prefer the CofD version of all of them, they just feel closer to the "Platonic ideal" of what that creature is supposed to be. Even stuff like demon, with all the sci-fi shit, they can actually make a contract for someone's soul or firstborn.

>>96542994
DtD and HtV are both better games than their older counterparts.
Though for those, I get why a person would go 'yeah, but I prefer the flavor of playing as a straight up demon/divinely inspired super-hunter', and prefer the older versions.

>>96543168
nta but I'm 50/50 on them. Some, like Mage especially, just feel worse but there's definitely improvements in certain areas.

>>96543062
What are we going to glaze else? CofD is mostly sandbox and while mechanically decent, most don't play WoD or CofD for the mechanics.
Like, let me do some glazing;
VTR:...devotions are cool I guess?
WTF: Being the border patrol and a big game hunter is cool, too bad no one fucking plays it.
MTAw: Managed to spawn Genius for the sheer salt it generated.
MTC: No one plays it but at least the "You start strong and get weaker" is novel.
DTD: Matrix but you are the Agent Smith. Incredible concept, boring execution.
Beast: It's Beast, incredible concept, horrible execution.
Promethean: ...still don't get why this is an entire splat.
HTV: Overall great, best of CofD if you have a decent ST.
Deviant: Cool but it's more like dress up games but instead of dresses, you choose your abilities. Great character creator but poor for actual storytelling as ST does the heavy lifting.
CTL: Trauma Simulator the game. Decent but outside of hedgefag, I didn't meet anyone who actually loves it.

>>96543168
I probably can say I like less than 50% of all WoD gamelines without caveat.
>VTM
>VTR
>HTV
>CTL
>GTSE

I've slowly started coming around on Forsaken but I'm hesitant to add it to the list because I'm fairly meh on the Forsaken themselves. There's some good stuff in the other lines but there's a lot more I don't care for than do.

most of my favorite supernatural creatures are the stuff you would find in nWoD 1e splat neutral books. Like Inferno, Immortals, Skinchangers. That kind of stuff I really like.

>>96543189
>Promethean: ...still don't get why this is an entire splat.
Why shouldn't it be?

>>96543301
They want to be a real human boy but have an aura of ruin and distrust.
This can be literally any other splat but Hunters. You can play that with Vampire, Mummy, Demon, Beast, Deviant and Changeling.
In fact, it can be a core theme with Vampire, Deviant and Changeling chronicles.

>>96543261
For me, from "all-time favourite" at the top to "I enjoy it with the right people" at the bottom:
>WTA
>CTL
>WTF
>HTV
>GTSE
>VTM
Anything outside of those, I regard with emotions ranging from neutrality to disdain, though I mostly reserve the latter for both variants of Mage.

Can Fetches be Prometheans?

Do werewolves like belly rubs?

>>96543364
Yes especially Red Talons. Give it a try.

>>96543330
Promethean is a game because they wanted a Frankenstein game to go with their vampire, werewolf, and mummy games. Honestly I wish OWoD had an equivalent.

>>96543371
Magefags will say you can make a thinking, "person" construct in Mage, they even had the same name. Though that's not 100% what you're asking for.

>>96540378
Don't mention it. The backer PDF should be out soon ish and that'll probably get uploaded soon after. So if you want to check it out for more details that'd be the way to do it.

>>96543411
As a Magefag myself I'm well aware, but there are no rules for playing as such a construct and even if there were it would just be one character option in Mage rather than having its own fleshed out mechanics

>>96543344
Reasonable. I don't really hold disdain for other splats unless someone's trying to push some Unified one-setting WoD on me.

>Tron
>Hackers
>The Matrix
Are these the only movies that inspo for a Virtual Adept?

>>96543354
Not usually, but it is a special thing in Dark Eras 2's "Seven Wonders" chapter, that's only possible while all the 7 wonders are still standing.

>>96543189
>MTAw: Managed to spawn Genius for the sheer salt it generated.
Beg your pardon?

>>96533960
>Toreador bites me
>my already delicious magic blood is laced with mage-psychedelics
>she can't stop sucking
>her feeding feels so good it rolls my arete
>both of us trapped in a feedback loop mind-melting reality-warping time-dilating orgasms
>die cumming
>Toreador cries over me
>embraces me to save me
>kill self because no avatar

>>96543702
>Didn’t set up a time loop beforehand
Did you just Awaken yesterday or something? Noobs, I swear.

>>96543702
That's actually a fun concept for a pair of resentful lovers on the run.
The cammies want you two death for the transgression, the former ecstatic resents his sire for taking away his Avatar and seeks help from mages hoping against reality to get it back, the toreador is sad she can't get more laced blood and she only sticks with the fledgling in hopes they can get protection from the Camarilla.
They end up as low level clerks in a Chantry, mostly because everyone else felt sorry for them.

Holden was wrong. Gonzo was the way to go.

>>96543475
Johnny Mnemonic as well maybe lawnmower man as well

>>96539920
>brucato

Drawfag looking to get some practice drawing faces in. Give me a description of your character and I'll see if I can draw a headshot.

Pic is another player's character from a V20 game I'm in.

>>96543812
Maeve, a ~200 year old Irish from clan Hecata (Lamia). That she's a vampire is very obvious, she's got a predatory mien and cares little for her appearance. Her most striking feature is the unkempt red hair on her scalp and sunken in eyes that are more like a feral cat's than a human's.

She usually is dressed in old hunting garments that have long since fallen out of fashion and are moth eaten.

Can Life mages of sufficient power wrestle with rampaging werewolves as if they were feisty puppies?

>>96543906
Can you clarify a bit on the hair? Is it just messy and gross? Any thoughts on things like the nose and jawline, or artistic liberty there?

Pic is another player's character.

>>96540744
>Werewolf attracts the lib-anarchist writers
I don't even think this is bad. What's bad is the type of player Werewolf attracts because my fucking God they are insuffereable.
At least Vampire players give good drama and hot gossips.

>>96540810
>Mummy, Wraith and Demon attract no one, because nobody played those games
This is a lie. I ST all of them. Too bad I play by myself.
Jokes aside, I STed Mummy and Demon. Wraith I don't trust my friends enough to play this type of game so this one I play by myself.

>>96543812
You mind doing a Changeling (Lost)?

Looking like almost a caricature of the robustly built working man of his day, he has a very wide but round face with a somewhat misshapen nose from one too many dust-ups. His brow is almost cave-man projected out from his skull and despite his best attempts to keep it shaven, he has a thick beard of dark hair. His head hair is short but messy, half-hidden under a common, rounded cap (it's victorian england, one of those rounded, flat worker caps).

His expression is always stern and menacing, even when he's trying to be friendly and his eyes are small and somewhat sunken in, with a perpetual half-squint.

>>96543812
Wes Levine, Cult of Ecstasy gearhead. A rugged, handsome guy with high cheekbones and a cleft chin. His unkempt, black hair reaches down to his chin which is covered by a permanent five o'clock shadow.

>>96543980
Yeah, I can draw any splat. I'll need to check a reference for the hat though.

Started on the Hecata character.

>>96543812
Changeling the Dreaming 20th. Arcadian Sidhe of House Eiluned. Pic 1 is the Mortal Seeming (what normies see), the other the Fae Mien (what people actually able to perceive Changeling stuff see). The glasses are entirely aesthetic, Clark Kent style.
To quote descriptions from the sheet directly...

The Mortal whose life she took:
>Asian, dainty, bespectacled. Black eyes and mid-length black hair that almost catches light from its sheen. Her skin always has a healthy glow. One could swear she's almost more radiant at night. Favors black clothing, particularly practical articles like turtlenecks. Her quaint clothes somehow further highlight her beauty, like a visitor from another star moving incognito.
>Caitlin was known to be reserved and soft-spoken. Her mild mannered, modest aesthetic, contrasted with her breathtaking looks (Appearance 6), give her a mysterious, intelligent charm that almost coaxes you to talk in hopes of hearing her share thoughts. But the observant might notice she does not lack confidence in her gait or awkwardness in her speech, her gaze subtly assessing as if trying to read a person like a book. To the trained eye, the demure airs seem more like an affection, a purposeful limitation; as if "Caitlin Song" were a role to play...

The Changeling behind it:
>Skin that glows like moonlight, hair sprinkled with stardust, trailing like a comet's tail when unobstructed. Linne lacks her mortal seeming's glasses, revealing pupils framed by pale crescent-moons. Her distinctive Voile, a hooded jacket-like dress littered with runic markings that shift among themselves or even subtly change shape, is the source of her epithet: "Linne of the Runes".
>Linne na Rúin is almost pictureque of House Eiluned; secretive, sharp (and sharp-tongued), studious, and calculating. A utilitarian willing to voice cold options or play devil's advocate. Linne is not heartless, but she guards her feelings and focuses on big-picture thinking to distract from them.

>>96544037
Sure! Here's a historical reference of working class hats. Feel free to have some artistic license with everything. I appreciate it immensely. If the splat terminology would help he's a Farwalker Ogre of the Autumn Court.

>>96544064
Why does the third guy looks like Putin?

>>96544130
Europeans just look like that when there's enough generational alcoholism.

>>96544064
Here's a rough sketch. I don't draw a lot of men, and I don't think I've ever drawn a man with a beard, so that's something I need practice with. Anything you want changed?

>>96543925
Sharp nose and jawline, due to more corpselike appearance (slightly sunken in cheeks, not much fat left in the face - Maeve's Beast is close under the surface).

The hair is not necessarily gross but stands wild in all directions rather than being kempt. Like she just ran through the woods and her hair got caught on branches

>>96544037
>>96544162
Just saw that you already started, this kind of messy hair works great too! Thank you!

>>96544141
Don't sweat it. I'd say broaden the jaw out by a good amount, and the beard could stand be thicker and go up closer to his cheekbones. I'm trying to go for a "the last guy you'd want to run into in a dark alley" kinda thing with the character. Scary motherfucker, but not your typical musclebound or kinda fat ogre.

>>96543812
It's not off the ground yet, but I'm hoping to join a HTV game as a nervous rookie cop in over his head. Fresh-faced, bit blocky and flat in features. The kind of guy who looks like he wants to keep it together for everyone else's sake, but just isn't convincing.

>>96543812
"refined" gangrel neonate.
blonde fuckboy. mid-length hair. impeccably fashionable and well-kempt, much to the jeers of any self respecting childe of ennoia.
appearance 4 but secretly terrified of losing it. already developing some marks based on his animal forms, a hyena and a crow.

>>96544172
I will do my best. Inking the Hecata now.

>>96544162
I've made her more gaunt. Inking now.

I will get to as many as I can. Did not expect so many to bite.

Here's my Toreador medium.

>>96544239
No problem, thanks for taking the request.

>>96543812
If it may interest you and I'm not too late to get a request in:
>Gwynevere Levy, Changeling
>Seeming: Beast (Kith: Runnerswift, Faun-type)
>Appearance: Young adult, rather short, with stylishly messy hair, short antlers, big round, golden deer eyes, otherwise generally human in appearance
>Description: Spring Court party girl, effervescent and cheerful, usually has a funny sideways smile/grin like she just won the lottery, uses joy as camouflage to avoid fae predators (the Gentry of course)
>Specializes in Contracts of the Hearth (good luck charms and blessings) and Oneiromancy (dream diving and manipulation) to protect people from Gentry-caused nightmares, very much tries to live up to the fairy tales of the Good Fae that the Gentry aren't

>>96544239
Great, thank you!!

>>96544239
you offered artwork to the broke NEETs of /tg/ lmao. you're doing god's work though anon, with everything you post in these threads.

>>96544260
>short antlers, big round, golden deer eyes

>>96544301
I just really need practice. My art isn't where I want it to be and I really need to draw more men.

I do believe Maeve the Hecata is done.

I will do as many as I can.

>>96544256
Assuming I'm replying to the correct anon, I've updated this guy. Better?

>>96544383
Yes! Thank you.

>>96544386
How's this? Manliest man I've ever drawn.

>>96544474
Solid, should work well for his Mask. I appreciate the very thick eyebrows that just barely don't turn into a unibrow.

Is this the final version? No pressure if it is, and I don't want to hold up the other requests, I imagine his hair rather dark, so I just wondered if you could do a bit of shading on the beard/hair to convey that.

>>96544520
Yeah that's an easy change.

Here's another pc from my game. Effeminate Brujah.

Cheers to our resident portraitfag, may his pencils and inks find endless inspiration.

>>96544544
Thank you! I'll try to get to all of them eventually, but probably not tonight. I'll try to get one or two more in.

Added some grayscale to this dude.

>>96544541
>>96544597
Thank you so much drawfriend! I hope the practice was useful.

>>96544651
Well I learned how to draw facial hair. And drawing masculine men is a weak point that I need to improve on. Tackling weak points is how improvement happens.

Here's a speed paint of my Toreador. We borrowed a bit from V5 so she can actually drink wine because high Humanity.

>>96544691
good old goth vampire girls, nice

>>96536267
https://youtu.be/zq7xyjU-jsU?si=zjtuA-w5Yaz-Fbo2&t=11

>>96543986
Very early, rough start on this dude. I am very bad at drawing men. Gonna try to clean it up later; need to rest my hands for a bit.

>>96543812
An early 30s fairly lanky English professor. Short professional cut and mustache, and a constant worried expression on his face. The kind of guy who would happily greet you but also be checking to see if you were followed, smiling but in spite of whatever has him so worried.

>>96544823
It's a solid start, you take your time with it.

>>96543645
Genius the Transgression is little more than a love letter to Mage the Ascension and especially the Technocracy, what with how the gameplay revolves around technological Wonders. The Foundations of the Peerage and the Baramins of Lemuria are heavily inspired by the different Traditions of the Council and Conventions of the Technocracy. There's also masses of thematic overlap, what with how the Wonders of geniuses can never survive the scrutiny of mortals and will always fall apart when exposed to Jabir, which mirrors the tyranny of the consensus and how it quashes the wonders of true magic.

Genius the Transgression likely would have never been made if Mage the Awakening didn't deviate from Mage the Ascension so significantly. This isn't to say that one is better than the other, just that Genius the Transgression was absolutely made by people who basically just wanted a Wonder-centric Mage the Ascension using nWoD mechanics and didn't care at all for Mage the Awakening.

What would Dungeons and Dragons be like if it were made and played with the same assumptions as the World/Chronicles Of Darkness?

>>96545122
What kind of assumptions? Mechanical, stylistic, thematic, what?

>>96545125
All of the above.
I was recently thinking about how many roleplaying games degenerate into D&Disms / hack-and-slash murderhoboing. Then I wondered what it would be like if the World of Darkness were the dominant influence instead. Anyways, just idle hypothetical speculation.

>>96545122
No dragons, but plenty of (bdsm) dungeons.

>>96545122
If I interpret "the assumptions of World/Chronicles of Darkness" as being "exploring the horror that comes with existing as a supernatural entity in a world that is particularly dark and dramatic," then I imagine that such a version of Dungeons and Dragons would have a much stronger narrative focus, with particular attention given to particular supernatural races and classes with intriguing fantasies surrounding them.
Playing an elf could revolve around wrestling with the consequences of having such a long lifespan and having lived for so long that your character has seen the rise and fall of nations as the influence of their own people has gradually waned with every era. There would be different factions that deal with being so long-lived and being doomed to inevitable decline in various different ways, as an exploration of how people react to a rapidly changing world.
Playing a dwarf could be focused on the importance of their mountain homes and the wealth that they contain. Having exploited the bounty of the earth for so long, they might think that it belongs to them exclusively, yet with every year, they have to contend with evermore rivals who seek to plunder the world's precious metals and stones for themselves. It would be an exploration of avarice and privilege as the many different factions of dwarves react to the reality that the mountains are not theirs and theirs alone any longer.
So on and so forth, other interesting possibilities could be halflings and the realisation that they're small fish in a massive, terrifying ocean, wizards and the terrifying potential of the arcane, warlocks and the many dimensions of their bonds with their patrons, paladins and the nature of religious faith in all of its forms and so on. If any dungeons are ransacked and dragons are slain, it's for a higher purpose of creating opportunities for the characters to investigate and interrogate their various issues.

>>96544891
Update! I really need to do some studies because goddamn I suck at drawing men. And I had to look up facial hair growth. Learning!

That's all the portraits I can do tonight; I'll try to do more later in the week. If you miss it, I'll put all the finished portraits on my Newgrounds.

https://cynadiadraws.newgrounds.com/

>>96545251
Thank you very much, your work is much appreciated.

>>96545284
You are very welcome. I have learned a lot tonight. I really need to do more studies.

One more pic of my Toreador before bed. Her high Humanity allows her to drink wine, but it takes a lot to get drunk. Except for that time I botched a stamina roll. That was fun.

>>96545246
I will now play your fantasy setting.

>>96531800 (OP)
>TQ:
-Oracular ability (i just love the power to derive meaning and truth from the mundane)
-Natural Linguist
-Innate magical ability. Many interesting possibilities.
-Honourable mention: artful visionary and the various ability aptitude merits

For CofD:
-Striking looks (so cheap, so good)
-Omen sensitivity (pretty similar to Oracular ability)
-Acute senses or Brownie's boom. For 1 dot, they are amazing.
Honourable mention: astral adept. Because the astral plane is too cool not to explore.

>>96545251
>Newgrounds

>>96545660
Thanks for reminding me of that, haven't been there in ages
>The meet'n'fuck games are gone
kurwa

>>96543261
For me, my favourites are
>MtAw
>HtV
>VTM=VTR
>WtF
>CtL
>Deviant (haven't actually gotten to play it yet, but looks really promising)

I'm mostly neutral to positive on all others except Apocalypse and Ascension wich I think have just too much dumb bullshit baked into their core premise to be salvageable, Geist that just reads as boring AF and Beast is Beast.

>>96543368
>this how 90% of Whelp's Compromise/Anti-Extinction Faction members were persuaded to join the camp

>>96543440
Go play Promethean to your heart's desire. They might not have True Magic, but their character creation allows you to get Merits that most ST don't allow you to get outright.

>>96545122
You would end up with something along the lines of Exalted or Dark Ages.

I was reading up on Vtm and saw a post someone made:

>Golcondmaxxing high humanity via Christi Tzimisce with true faith. Literal perfect life form

Is such a thing even possible? If so how will this affect a vampire? Or was the poster making up an OP character unachieveable in the tabletop for lulz

>>96546608
>Is such a thing even possible?
What's so hard to understand about a Tzimisce following the path of heaven with the true faith merit?

>>96546608
I suspect golcondmaxxing to be just buying the dots to credibly pursue golconda, and then you could still have freebies left for the true faith merit.

Just got penetrated by a tzimisce’s large erect colon

Ask me anything

>>96546608
Golconda is entirely up to ST fiat and is assumed to not be active in play if it even has benefits. Also seeking Golconda pretty much prevents powergaming since you can’t even have selfish thoughts let alone fight.

>>96546657
Did it spit acid?

>>96546689
God, I love the hierarchy of sins.

>>96546835
Remember, seeking power for the sake of seeking power is selfish.
To defend the innocent, yourself and kine isn't.

>>96546847
Rationalizing typically occurs after you already lost the conscience roll

>>96546847
>>96546976
That and the humanity rules are pretty garbage. Mainly because a lot of it intentionally vague without solid examples.

>>96546976
Anon, I am not talking about rationalization. I am talking about the action you take being counted as selfish or not.
Otherwise, simply living is selfish, roll for Humanity.

>>96547026
>Otherwise, simply living is selfish, roll for Humanity.
That's the point, 8+ ratings are supposed to be borderline unplayable and 10 should be unlivable with any degree of practicality.

If a changeling wins a title from a True Fae do they instantly become one themselves?

>>96546259
I actually had no idea there were rules for making promethean characters in Mage. Still, I feel like it proves my point about them not being fleshed out or interesting since all they get is a slightly different statline and an optional merit. I also find it weird that it specifies a Promethean player character can't be an awakened mage, since every example of a Promethean in the lore is awakened, a classic case of rules for thee but not for me from MtAs' design team I suppose.

>>96547086
It depends, the entitled changelings are a whole thing but I don't remember the details.

>>96547086
>If a changeling wins a title from a True Fae do they instantly become one themselves?
Most likely. Another reason fighting a True Fae is so dangerous, even if you win you might lose yourself.

>>96547086
Either that or they max out Wyrd instantly and will feel utterly compelled to return to Arcadia. Clarity goes to 0. Once they step foot in Arcadia they become one of the gentry. Trying to stop them would be dangerous since the desire to return to Arcadia would trump previous allegiances

Symbollically speaking, would Willpower be associated more closely with the head or the chest?

>>96547358
I've seen it more associated with innards, the guts etc
so I'd go with the chest

>>96547358
I would say the heart has a better symbolism going on because of the association with passion and souls.

>>96547358
Willpower is generated in the spine. That's why you get a point back for sleeping well, your brain got irrigated with cerebrospinal fluid to break up some of the plaque of the day and refresh.

>>96547326
Nah, going and staying in Arcadia rarely make sense as compulsions of a title. It would be something weirder and more exploitable Ironside.

>>96546218
And I'm grateful for that.

>>96547011
>Mainly because a lot of it intentionally vague without solid examples.
Because that's a matter of interpretation and consensus within ST and players. Personal Horror has "personal" written in it for a reason.
But people are too lazy to do this whole job and prefer to just read everything in a literal way.
That's why many people don't like DtF, for instance. The whole thing about Paradise it's that is it was layered realities in which everything was in harmony. Demons used judeo-christian-islam explanations and names because that was the major religion at the time (i.e. that was the "layer of reality" they were stuck into. And I put this on quotes because I know there isn't layers anymore; everything is mashed together and destroyed. It's more of a way to translate how demons behave accordingly to what is given to them about this reality). If hindu religion was the major, they would do different explanations and have different names. It's not that difficult to understand, but people still struggle with this simple fact.

>>96547664
Relevant.

>>96545251
>invader zim fanarts on your twitter
That's very cute, anon!

Don't use the personal horror buzzword if you want your argument to be taken seriously.

>>96547517
This canonically already happens when your Wyrd becomes high enough. You start having bizarre dreams and feeling the need to return to Arcadia and your clarity keeps dropping. When your clarity reaches 0 the desire to return becomes impossible to ignore. The only way to save someone like this is to reduce their Wyrd.

In fact the only canonical way for new True Fae to be "born" is for changelings to evolve into them. I actually quite like this. My head canon is that this part of why the wyrd drives the Gentry to seek out changelings. Going from a human to a True Fae is quite a story in and of itself

>>96547812
Yeah I was a /co/ drawfag. I still draw Zim; I just don't upload on Twitter because it's a shithole. And art that isn't fanart doesn't get seen much unless you're really good. I want to get better at fantasy art; I've always loved it but didn't have the skill. Trying to change that. Being frustrated that my art is shit won't make my art not shit.

I will try to get more requests done. I have an in-person game in a few hours so I won't have a lot of time to draw today but I'll try.

More art of my Toreador. She took aggravated damage and it was first time her blood pool was low enough to really feel the hunger. She's a bagger so keeping her blood pool full-ish is tough. And expensive.

>>96547358
According to chakral traditions and interpreting willpower as one's inner fire, ambition and/or manifestation of personal power, willpower would fall under the solar plexus.

Anons, what do you think of PbP WOD discord games?

>>96548452
Invite me to yours and I'll tell you.

>>96548452
I like them when they don't devolve into players just sitting around drinking coffee every scene to farm XP

>>96548589
>"The Antediluvians are gonna wake up in like two years. Guys, what do we do?"
>"Not to worry, I have a plan. We can become powerful enough to defeat them. All we have to do... is sit in my private library of occult tomes and drink coffee like our lives depend on it. Because they do."

Bleh!

>>96548452
In smaller PbP communities, it depends on whether you're a part of the primary clique. If you are, you're going to have very attentive STs giving you and your characters lots of attention. If you aren't, you're going to be expected to entertain yourself by engaging in freeform roleplay with other outsiders, with STs begrudgingly interacting with you if you really badger them about it.
In larger PbP communities, it's basically a freeform roleplaying server with a bunch of extra steps attached, with the occasional big event every couple of months, during which things actually happen and players actually roll dice to accomplish meaningful things. STs are perpetually miserable and constantly badgered by the massive player base who they are obligated to cater to, even though they want nothing more than to play their own characters with their friends.

>>96546259
>>96547189
the blurb on the left is specifically from Progenitors Revised so you can easily square the circle lorewise by realizing that this implies that only Etherite Prometheans can awaken
they're just built different (with actual S O V L)

>>96548909
Reminds me of the LARP games I've played in

Drop character art

>>96549281
define character art.

Actual art used by you in game for PCs/NPCs? Art for that could be used for PCs/NPCs? AI allowed or just human-made?

Why are archmages so cool in theory but abysmal in session?

The idea of cosmic wizards hunting for cosmic ingredients - which are never the same - for their imperial rituals is pretty cool. Quintessence or whatever.

Coolest example was a golden pearl, or ‘the very last bead of sweat dropped by Elvis Presley after his final performance’, for some massive Time spell.

>>96549357
Because the higher the powerlevel gets, the less that World of Darkness's strengths as a game and setting are relevant. To make a narrative feel dark and moody, the player characters have to be grounded to at least street level superheroics with the caveat that there are much bigger, badder things they would be simply deleted by. Archmages have spiraled so far out of control in personal power and agency that you can simply toss 99% of the setting in the bin, along with the tone and edginess, which are so crucial to making it the World of Darkness and not the World of Wizards or some shit like that

>>96549383
based personalhorrorshitter

>>96549393
look man, if your PC is so almighty he can just casually fly around in space and time like Doctor motherfucking Who and casually mugs Cthulhu for lunch money, it's pretty hard to make the game interesting any longer. The whole setting, all the rich worldbuilding, all the factions of supernatural beings, it's pointless in a scenario like that

This is why everyone hates magefags.

>>96549524
The only reason I hate magefags is their inability to stay in their fucking lane.

They can do whatever they want, where I get irked is when I'm trying to talk about VTM and someone barges in with some "OH THE TECHNOCRACY WOULDN'T ALLOW THAT LET ME TELL YOU HOW BIG AND COOL THEY ARE" like that shit even exists at my table.

>>96549281
I'm not posting porn.

>>96549552
Poor naive anon. That's exactly the reason they "like" Mage, to lord it over everyone else.

>>96549552
>only reason I hate magefags is their inability to stay in their fucking lane
Their lane has nothing to talk about "in their lane".
Almost no one gives a shit about game stories and that goes double for games like Mage.

>>96549552
>The only reason I hate magefags
You must have the patience of a saint if you hate magefages for just the one reason.