Thread 96895216

Gentle Caress edition

>Previous Thread
>>96886924

>Pastebin
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>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question
Would you chance your arm and face to rub Garou tummy? Would you let a totally normal Toreador feel up your bicep?

>>96895216 (OP)
By Gaia it's a Pentex board

>>96895216 (OP)
>Would you chance your arm and face to rub Garou tummy?
Yes, magical girls can heal any wound...right? Right?

Been thinking of making a princess chronicle set in Bridge to Terabithia. Could be cool due to how much it contrasts with the WoD

Life mages be like

>>96895216 (OP)
>Would you let a totally normal Toreador feel up your bicep?
Only if she won't take no for an answer, because I'm obligated to desperately beg and pant. "We, we shouldn't do this, I'm scared..." and that's her queue to continue groping around. Honestly, too many kindred underestimate how good a double kiss with coitus would be. Utterly scandalous and simply... to die for.

>>96895255
Is this how we save the garou from rage?

>>96895255
WTF am I watching.

>>96895274
one of the creepiest, yet surprisingly good isekai anime about a pro wrestler who loves animals

>>96895216 (OP)
bad touch
BAD TOUCH

>>96895231
Don't you know? Sunburst Computers provided the hardware for 4chan's servers

>>96895274
>>96895292
It feels like furrybait but it's actually kind of funny

>>96895296
Tziggers will look at this and go "Okay but hear me out what if I ran an ethical, beneficial plastic surgery business?"

>>96895271
Yes, bellyrubs are one of the best ways to shut down frenzy. How do you think their human kinfolk manages to avoid get killed by their own woof husbands/wives (most of the time)?

>>96895296
>>96895309
>Tziggers will look at this and go "Okay but hear me out what if I ran an ethical, beneficial plastic surgery business?"
https://youtu.be/xoD44rohrtU?t=397

>>96895312
I've been playing Book of Hungry Names and I'm actually pretty surprised how many of the frenzy scenes basically go like
>You hulk the fuck out
>[Friend] beat the shit out of you and now you aren't
Except for the wolf girl, so idk. I just assume kinfolk hide or tank the abuse

>>96895333
Too and Tzimisce are all insane sociopaths otherwise they'd have some crazy business

>>96895309
I mean, it's either that or "Behold! By putting some horns on my head I've evolved beyond vampiredom."

>>96895309
You talk about tzimisce, but don't forget how many toreador do the same bullshit. I believe that's what anon was talking about since he was responding to OP.

>>96895346
I wish, they typically do that after doing some bullshit to their genitalia that they just HAVE to show Everybody for some damned reason.

I thought of making a scenario where the players are inadvertently the cause of a near cataclysmic event.
I'm thinking that a tzimisce elder is brought into the city ostensibly by a power hungry prince who is considering doing a lacroix, (Well ostensibly he isn't trying to diablerize himself a few generations, but the first and obvious layer after that is that yes he is obviously doing a lacroix) and the players help facilitate moving the casket into the city (Under the oretense that it's a museum piece, and the prince is pretending he wants to either reawaken or burn tge elder depending on what they learn about him), they confront and defeat the sabbat pack trying to warn everyone about the guy being such a piece of shit that his fellow sabbat staked him and left him in there for a reason, and various other small things, and then he wakes up and starts spreading a terrible plague of some sort (I'm thinking revenantised insect/parasite shenanigans)
Anyway my worry is that they will just immediately smell a rat in the lead up. Like the moment there's a spooky casket the story will derail.
Any good ideas for how to start this in a way that makes it less obvious?

>>96895216 (OP)
It is mankinds destiny to conquer and tame the garou as a demesticated race for the Greater Human Empire!
Garous breeding slaves will be what saves their people from extinction!

i miss hedgefag

>>96895377
Now I want a WH40K setting using WoD as origin.
>>96895387
Same

>>96895368
Oh also the whole thing is supposed to be a plot orchestrated by another member of the court to clean up the city of unworthy vampire that got out of hands.
So someone slipped the prince the info about an elder ready to be drunk hoping he would be stupid enough to awaken the elder, the elder is awakened and the whole thing cascades because the original plotter thought the elder was a garden variety psychopathic murderer and not the catalyst for biblical plagues.

>>96895361
"Behold, the vagina-cock. It's a vagina on a cock"

>>96895361
lies and slander

>>96895243
I hated the movie as a kid because I was expecting Narnia.

Let me hear your ideas for homebrew clans/tribes/traditions/whatever. How would they fit in with the rest, what retcons would you make so they integrate with the world.

>>96895368
>Like the moment there's a spooky casket the story will derail.
correct
maybe you could obfuscate it by having it be canopic jars or other grave goods like servant figurines, make the players think they're just artifacts at best.

>>96895459
I've always wanted to make a disipline or sorcery path all about bottling identity, Disciplines, skills etc. If you can get someone's blood, you can make a potion to pretend to be them, borrow their powers, or memories, skills, etc. Never did much with it, also I keep kicking around an idea for a Caitiff discipline for manifesting blood weapons/armor/etc.

>>96895522
Wasn't there a necromancy path similar to that?
Or maybe some mytherceria bullshit?

>>96895293
It sort of makes sense given at the time of the original writing they only really cared about Europe and USA, everything else has been side additions and sourcebooks. It's not dissimilar from Kindred of the East being hilariously racist

>>96891093
Selling custom guitar pedals to local punk bands is not a real job.

With the prominence of thinbloods in the modern nights, what should the place of caitiff become?

>>96895545
It pays the bills, man.

>>96895545
Aren't Woofs in W5 encouraged to work like wagies also? I think early game mages as well but they quickly end up schizopilled

>>96895561
Yes, but only because W5 was written by imaginationless hacks. If I had Rage and a wolf inside me telling me to rip and tear, I would be on the news before my shift ended.

>>96895449
I loved it and it turned me towards the WoD because it made me love dramas.

>>96895387
Did hedgefag died?

>>96891872
>Earlier editions need more influencer types who aren't cringe
You're in the wrong hobby and the wrong fandom...
>>96891930
Convert Fireborn to the Storyteller System.

>>96895459
Bloodline that leans into "transformation into bat" part of vampire folklore. Their curse is going blind and developing bat-like physical characteristics. The upside is they can instinctively echolocate and with age develop ability to glide, and eventually fly. Can go unnoticed when clothed but being seen naked in public would be masquerade violation.
>Auspex (hearing, smell, aura reading)
>Protean (with Earth Meld variant that can meld into ceiling)
>and choice of Obfuscate or Animalism
Disputed whether their parent clan was Gangrel or Nosferatu.

>>96895576
Yes.
AIDS.

>>96895522
Isn't that just when vanilla mortal alchemy does already? All of the above is possible with sorcerer potions.
You can even adapt it into a discipline if you kidnap a thinblood.

>>96895576
he quit 4chan

>>96895583
>can instinctively echolocate

>>96895572
it's really funny when this happens in the cyoa
>be 19 year old wagie dogfucker
>manager withholds tips
>crash out and kill everyone
>repeat until no jobs
Would actually be a kino fail condition in a more competent whole RPG. I assume pre-W5 it's just kinfolk working except for Glass Walkers

>>96895594
And they say germans aren't funny

>>96895633
german humor just doesn't translate very well.

>>96895542
Path of Skulls does similar, but it's very exclusive
>>96895592
V5? Or a proper edition. Cause v5 sucks

>>96895594
good for xem

>>96895459
I don't usually like homebrewing in new clans/bloodlines, as there's usually enough of them already and pretty much all the good archetypes are already taken.

also because I run a fairly hybridized Masquerade + Requiem, there are other "pseudovampires" that can exist alongside Kindred to fill folklore niches Kindred don't match up to. I did re-introduce the Mekhet as a "lost clan", since there is a "lost" Antediluvian named Mekhet. They're highly secretive, have Salubri-tier numbers, and always pretend to be other clans or outright Caitiff.

>>96895594
>he quit 4chan
Then who was that I saw the other day on /co/?

>>96895649
>V5?
Ewwww, fuck no.
Why would you even suggest that I'd be referencing that trainwreck? Those are Fighting words anon.

>>96895561
The "modern audience" can't imagine a life where you aren't a hopeless wagie. No "I'm a drifter working here & there for enough to buy beer & breakfast" like the 80s & 90s. No summer job that could limp you through to spiring if you budgeted. No living half of the land, etc. Hell not even "I run scams/con games/busker gigs or do light thieving to get by" and that doesn't even cover trustful kids, stocks & bonds you only need to check on here & there, just being filthy rich/family wealth, etc.

No for the average reddit v5 players it's just bloodsucking, Starbucks & tinder

>>96895263
>t.Toreador

Who's been making Larvae in Louisiana?

>>96895672
I thought you were suggesting thinblood Alchemy or some shit. My bad. I'll owe you a boon in the coming nights

>>96895607
You WILL work at the bike shop and make minimum wage.

>>96895679
>Larvae
The Requiem ones?

>>96895691
The same

>>96895368
>>96895416
Do biological warfare instead from the casket that's already in the city. Finding the source leads to Prince pulling his LaCroix cause clearly they go back to Prince to report leaving it there.

>>96895687
One of Gaia's greatest warriors, defeated by a 9-5...

>>96895677
Seems right yeah

Idk if it's okay to bring up last threads discussion but how can Assamites even justify Islamic beliefs with vampirism?

>>96895720
gaia's strongest soldier vs
>hey man can you come in tonight? we're really getting slammed by the dinner rush haha

>>96895720
Yes, I'm still mad at Book of Hungry Names bullshit.

>>96895735
>Something something your faith didn't stop just because you had bad day
>keep on trucking pilgrim
The same way it is with Catholicism. Also, despite best efforts, they're kinda recruiting from the region and Shulgi wasn't around to enforce shit. If you dig into the Ashirra, as a whole, you find one even spoke to their prophet

>>96895745
>Teehee if you don't do it your fired
Should be grounds for wolfing out immediately

>>96895720
>>96895757
>Boss' car is mysteriously totaled

Who's a better employee for the average wagie job? The strongest soldier of Gaia or the Ennoia's strongest Gangrel warrior?

>>96895677
Art imitates life.

>>96895750
Sure you can be a live-in with your wolf-girlfriend and the Blackula has his own flat and the Jewish werewolf has her own mudshack but you still have to pay rent. I kind of like it as a show of how fucked everything is over there for the woofs, but at some point it's kind of ridiculous

>>96895735
I assume the same way the Lancea et Sanctum does: mental gymnastics

>>96895768
>Woof one nanosecond away from chimping out and killing everyone there when they get inconvenienced by the boss or a coworker
>Gangrel only works nights and is an unironic furryhobo
Tough choice

>>96895773
>Rudi is a proud black queer islamic vampire assamite
Many layers of mental gymnastics

>>96895735
Same way regular humans justify their beliefs in the face of directly contradictory evidence (not even talking religion here). People find amazing ways to cope.

>>96895781
To be fair, I'm a loser posting on 4chan and I'm still hoping to get embraced into a good clan.

>>96895677
>No "I'm a drifter working here & there for enough to buy beer & breakfast" like the 80s & 90s.
It took nearly a month for me to get a job as a dishwasher. I had to go through so many e-mails, passwords, background checks, and calls to remind the manager that I was still available.

>>96895755
>>96895773
Eh, a Christian has communion which has always been a big vampire genre subversion as well as feeding on animals, & as long as they aren't killing it's not too hard to justify. But for Islam the whole blood sucking thing is right out, even feeding on animals is hard for them.

>>96895735
>>96895781

>>96895685
>thinblood Alchemy
Anon:>>96895592
>vanilla mortal alchemy
Aka MORTAL SORCERY
pre-v5, thinbloods used to have the power to make new disciplines entirely, and the easiest way to do that is to adapt mortal numen into disciplines.
Thinblood alchemy is a straight-up nerf they tried to market as a new mechanic.

>>96895826
there's exceptions and loopholes, lame don't have to do the pilgrimage, rammadan doesn't apply to people on airplane, hippo is "a fish" and so on

>>96895826
>oh no I gotta do another religious castigation cause I ate
>woe is me and my lot
Most religion is just another quart of angst thrown into a vampire. There's ways to get around things or else religion would not be as wide spread

>>96895433
Is the only thing stopping them from making shitting dick nipples the fact that vampires no longer shit?

>>96895544
Well seems like the cat is out of the bag on crossthreading, again a curse be upon you OP.

I wouldn't call KotE racist. Poorly informed? Yeah. Ill-conceived? Sure. An entirely differently splat forcibly grafted on to VTM at the expense of both itself and VTM? 100%. But racism requires negative prejudice, and if anything, KotE was too busy sucking East Asia's dick to look at the region more objectively.

>>96895735
There are many potential copes. The Qur'an is very clear that you can engage in haram acts if it is necessary for your survival. Eat the pork, drink the booze, it's fine if you have no other choice. Prayer is supposed to be done a certain amount of times a day, but if shit happens, just make it up tomorrow with extra prayers. Thus, you could easily apply that logic to vampires "needing" to drink blood. Of course, you could just as easily make the argument that you don't "need" to drink blood as a vampire, you won't die, just freak out/go into torpor. And thus you reach the "walk into the sun" followed by "but suicide is a sin", "you're not alive though" argument that does not have a clear and easy answer.

In case I needed to clarify, my problem is not with the existence of vampires who claim to be Muslim. My problem is how the official middle east lore is so scarce, and not very well thought out. There has been no such thing as a unified Islam since the Ummayyad Caliphate. But all of the middle east is run by the very basic bitch Ashirra who haven't changed at all since VTDA? And this is just within the microcosm of post-Muhammad vampires. There should be far more micro Ur-Shulgis that range from ambivalent to hostile on the religion. The whole official set-up reeks of Middle Eastern = Muslim = all same, while avoiding any deeper discussion on the region's history, culture, and very real problems.

>>96895883
>the fact that vampires no longer shit?
I bet there's a koldunic ritual to "fix" that,

>>96891981
Only if it's with this map

>>96895889
Why would elemental magics fix that?

>>96895899
Shit is just earth + water, bro.

>>96895895
at some point visiting this thread I'm going to end up reading the entirety of this, I just know it.
I hate you.

I trust (you), my brothers in Caine, above my own coterie, so... should I go for an ice cream?

>>96895930
Ye

>>96895907
Good, autismos deserve it.

>>96895924
I don't think even a werewolf could take that close of a shot.

>>96895970
it's only 9mil, woof would be fine

>>96895944
rude

>>96895979
Here's another little gift for you, freako.

>>96895970
In human form? Maybe. Depends on if it'd count as a killing blow, or just a called shot: head with like... 5+ successes. But Forsaken are surprisingly tanky. In most forms they can spend an essence to automatically regenerate a number of lethal damage determined by their Primal Urge (supernatural potency). This is before any gifts or merits, of course.

Where it gets really scary is when they enter their hybrid form, Gauru. oWoD fans would know this form as Crinos. Not only does it have defense against firearms (which is true of every form but human and normal wolf) , but every turn it regenerates ALL LETHAL AND BASHING DAMAGE. Even a 2 Stamina Werewolf shoots up to a minimum of 12 health dots in this form, meaning you need to deal 13 or more lethal damage to this wolf in a single turn to have ANY of it stick (max lethal wraps around to aggravated damage). God help you if they have higher base stamina, or any merits/gifts that increase their health. You need silver to kill them once they go full werewolf.

>>96895977
it's 32, that's an 80 series beretta. the 92 is a full sized handgun

>>96895991
What's all the other, non-westeros shit about?

What happens if a mage uses spirit magic to awaken the consciousness of a soulforged object?

>>96896002
Doesn't a lupus born werewolf regenerate in homid form?

>>96896034
They have to put it out of its misery.

>>96896027
Mostly just essos and sothoryos stuff mixed with original things

>>96896035
We're talking CofD wolves, here. It's in the filename of the original post.

>>96896035
How in the fuck did you think he was talking about WtA when his post contained
>Forsaken
>(supernatural potency)
>Gauru, specifically clarifying what the oWoD equivalent form is for the unfamiliar
>Health Dots

>>96896035
I'm fairly certain natural forms don't have the super regeneration, they just have the enhanced type of regeneration wolves are entitled to in healing non-agg damage overnight without needing a 2 month rest the same way Hunters/Mortals do

>>96895991
Not nearly as interesting.

thoughts on dice rolls in V5?

>>96895705
Always thought they were neat. Kinda thinbloods. Kinda vampire spawns. A potential negative consequence for players that kill when feeding too often.

Honestly I just love vampiric aberrations as a whole.

>>96896119
It's like taking the stuff they decided was just not worth keeping from the WoD when they rebooted for CofD in the dice mechanics (shifting target numbers, 1s reducing successes, botches possible on a roll with dice in the pool) and adding extra gimmicks to keep track of.

Can Ushabti create non-human creatures? Could I make something like guard dogs or even something weird like a dinosaur?

>>96896183
Sorry, I should clarify. I mean rank 1 let's you make animals, but the higher ranks add more stat points/abilities including social & mental. Could I make hyper intelligent guard dogs that work like seal team 6? A velociraptor that can hack a computer, etc?

>>96896212
I think that's allowed and works reasonably well with the theme.

>>96896244
I don't like this thumbnail.

>>96892401
>I'm not currently using any addons, I'm using the MtAw base module because it technically supports most CofD gamelines (but it's still janky as fuck). Do you have any modules you're using that you'd recommend?
I'm using Dice so Nice and Dice Tray for rolling. VTMv5 module even provides special dice to use with werewolf and vampire splats.
Theatre Insert for NPCs, so players have something to look at while they talk to them.
I use other addons when needed, but most aren't mandatory.

>>96896259
Motherfucker, do you think I just happen to have infinite images to post here?
Take some Leon Spilliaert and stop complaining.

>>96896133
They're also good fodder for a more high action chronicle, I think

>>96896119
Like it. Makes it more flavorful and forces to use willpower for your successes as well as failures. Very nice for freshly turned vamps. If I had to play more experienced lick, then I'd use V20 anyway

>>96896244
Awesome. I can't wait to surprise someone with a T-Rex in my pocket

>>96896312
That's sort of what I meant with the "kinda vampire spawns" comment.

There's systems and lore precedent for particularly evil vampires having a small army of Larvae at their disposal, so you can have the full fantasy experience of killing shitty vampires in larger numbers while on your way to face down the final boss.

I low-key used them in a Hunter chronicle without my players even realizing that's what they were.

>>96896360
How'd you fluff them for your chronicle or was it lifted wholesale?

>>96896350
>T-Rex in my pocket

Am I mad for misremembering what a misbegotten is? I feel like it's a CtL or Promethean thing if it's not a Malkavian.

leeches eunt domus

>>96896364
I will preface the story with a statement that I use both Masquerade and Requiem stuff for my games, especially when doing stuff for say, Hunter.

It was a Weird War 2 type of game. Technically, it started before WW2 kicked off, but it was that sort of vibe, very pulp inspired. They went all over the world, fighting all sorts of weird stuff. High exp Hunter: the Vigil. This was towards the end of the game, during the end of the war when Germany was falling apart and the Allies and Soviets were racing to Berlin. I wanted to sell the notion that many supernaturals were using the chaos, death, and total breakdown of public order to do shit they couldn't get away with normally. This included a group of Sabbat that were very Third Reich, and very into the occult. A tiny hamlet of a town in western Germany was already throwing up the flag of surrender well before the allied lines had reached them, and the pack leader decided that their treason was grounds for a little "test". They'd already been experimenting with intentional Larvae creation. They attacked the village and drained anyone and everyone they could catch, creating a shitload of Larvae as a cruel, supernatural version of Hitler's call for every last German to die fighting for the Reich.

The PCs, going ahead of the normal allied advance on behalf/with the young Task Force: Valkyrie to sweep for supernatural threats found themselves in a seemingly abandoned village by day, but when night fell, the Larvae came out to feed, and they were in a survival horror situation against dozens of them. Come to think about it, I actually used Larvae another time. If any of my Pulp Hunter players see this thread, that's why that Tzimisce's "brides" were smarter than outright wights/draugr, but unable to really speak. Don't worry Agoston's daughter turned into a proper vampire on account of being a Hunter.

Lotta fun that game. I still miss it sometimes.

>>96896259
You clicked when you thought it was a Bad Dragon, things are better when you're disappointed.

>>96896389
>misbegotten
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Begotten

>>96896415
Thank you, I knew it sounded familiar. Man I wish Beast was better.

>>96896366
Not really, but it's harder to say it's a Masquerade breach when the big brute distraction is a dinosaur that disappears after an hour & not not some spooky vampire related monster.

>>96896401
That sounds fucking awesome. Like what Overlord should have been

>>96896401
Pretty sick, did they get out successfully?

>>96896456
Thank you. Gosh, Overlord was such wasted potential. The one part where it's actually a horror movie was great, but the rest? Kinda eh.

>>96896465
They did. Everyone involved was quite high experience, and since it was only a party of 3 (we had a fourth but the player had to bail due to scheduling somewhere around the 15th or so session) I often gave them one or two back-up NPCs. This one was really fun since it was a Ventrue controlling the dude via Dominate 5, Possession. I ran with the plotline of TF:V being moderately to severely compromised by Vampires, based on a plot point another member of my group had in a previous game he ran wherein an Elder Ventrue and our Prince claimed to have been involved with TF:V from day one, essentially to make sure that they would only hunt the "correct" monsters. Ordinarily the Blue Bloods wouldn't be so direct but they knew there were very Masquerade break-y Sabbat in the area and wanted to make sure it was done right.

They survived the night, blasted most of the Larvae during said night, and finished the rest off by day. That game was probably my favorite game I've ever ran, being able to go anywhere and do anything with PCs that could actually handle some heavyweight supernaturals was great, especially with a historical backdrop. Same arc also had them facing a Pure pack using a Gift to turn people into Lon Cheney wolfmen (real RAW gift in Forsaken 2e, btw). Other arcs included, in no particular order
>A Nephilim (red-haired giant, not the oWoD mini-template) Ghul (night horrors wicked dead) running a weird pleasure cult across the middle east.
>Khufu risen again, very confused and pissed that his kingdom is unrecognizable. He rushes deep into the sands to find a lost legion of animated Ushabti to reclaim his lands!
>A Nazi Psychic, a Tremere Elder, and our intrepid heroes racing to find an ancient place of power in France. (feat Beckett)

>>96896401
>Weird War 2 type of game
Say no more, I'm already sold

>>96895216 (OP)
Werewolf is gay
Mage is retarded
Changeling should've been its own setting
Vampire is the only good one, everything else just feels tacked on like bad fanfiction.

>>96896735
Hello, fellow Bloodlines secondary!

>>96895607
Glass Walkers have always been bullshit because as a tribe, they actually have no reason they are better equipped to working 9-5s than anyone else. You can see a big of progression in the first few books that led to this. In the first core it's explained they can live within society by sticking to its fringes and fitting in with organized crime, where sudden and violent outbursts are a plus. Then comes Valkenburg where Brucatto added a lost cub playing American Psycho by getting a corporate job while never leaving glabro. Dark Alliance: Vancouver added Richard Daly, who could maintain his corporate wolf position by being an elder, so actually having ways to suppress and control his rage. But people didn't get that his position only worked with his rank, so writers after just made Walkers with fucking desk jobs.

>>96895826
It's part of Muslim tradition that you're allowed to break any part of Islam if it means survival.

I was thinking of possibility of a Telltale WoD game, it looks like they announced a Wolf Among Us sequel in 2019 and still have nothing to show for it and with how WoD games go, if they were to start a Mage game today they'd probably release its first episode in about 60 years

>>96895970
In WTA, even if somehow he doesn't soak, all woofs have their Rage to do a last stand once a scene. Regardless of if it was Aggravated or Silver or anything else.

>>96896846
What does a fight between CofD and WoD woofs look like?

Caine is a big fat dummy head!

>>96895607
That's basically all Glass Walkers, except for no jobs part since they are Glass Walkers.

>>96896855
There's too many fundemental differences in how the systems work to simulate that with any degree of accuracy.

>>96896821
Glass Walkers employ each other. Either you work for one of the businesses owned by a corporate woof or you’re a wise guys henchman. Theoretically all the other tribes could do the same, but they’re so allergic to civilization they just leech on their kinfolk’s paychecks (or, in the case of the bone gnawers, are locked into a vow of poverty by their totem)

I really hate the change in RPG art that artists can no longer display their signatures on their work. I feel it cheapens it, and it makes figuring out who made what and who's stuff to follow harder.

>>96895720
Weaver's greatest weapons are often do disguised as harmless things

>>96896781
Even if that were true how the fuck would that disprove anything that I said?

>>96896894
I think that guy is taking issue with the fact that Glass Walkers don't have any specific gifts or anything that make them better at quelling their rage and co-existing with humans in civilised spaces than every other tribe. There's nothing stopping a particularly civilised Get of Fenris from being just as good at mingling with humans as a Glass Walker.

>>96896950
I can't "disprove" your subjective opinion, anon. Besides, you likely feel so strongly that no matter how much I'd try to "disprove" your opinion, you'd still be posting the same thing again in less than a week's time. You're going to feel your feelings no matter what, so all I can do is make fun of you for being an obvious secondary.

>>96896940
It's a dumb standart meant to avoid backlash when they can't afford to hire the same guys.

>>96896855 ignoring >>96896871 point, Garou would probably win most fights because they have access to multiple actions/turn and better access to aggravated damage on top of a much bigger list of bullshit Gifts and items.
Even if the base template is equalized through the translation guide, the Forsaken lack any faction traits to given them an edge.

>>96896959
I know, what I’m saying is that the Glass Walkers sidestep that issue using nepotism. Also, pretty much all the gifts that let woofs control their Rage and the Curse are homid ones, so it’s not like they have nothing to help with that

>>96895231
Yeah, took you this long to notice? You really are as stupid as they say!

>>96896959
That because most of the human like gifts got put on the Homid bucket out of a sense of "we know damn well how little power concepts we have for them".

>>96896119
More of an annoyance than anything.

>>96895243
Good luck. Maybe use crystal edition, from what I heard it's the most playable version of the game.

hypothetically, if a cainite wanted to live in the wilderness for an extended period of time and avoid garou what would his options be?

>>96895397
Let's see what connections would make sense.
>The Emperor
Probably an Imbued/Sorcerer creation if not Mage related because that's always the easiest explanation for anything.
>The Primarchs
Besides the more obvious matches, I think the Shadow Lords might have some Garou blood in them. That would explain their coward and incompetent nature.

>>96897013
Just use Protean nigga. Almost no one is going to be able to dig you up and when they do you can just fly away as mist or a bat.

>>96897013
Camp superfund sites. Radiation fucks wolves while kindred are beyond chromosome damage.

>>96897058
>kindred are beyond chromosome damage.
Anon, the embrace won't cure your syndrome.

So, Storytellers: do you set you Chronicles in big-shot cities where the official metaplot is already supposed to be happening by lore, or do you keep it closer to what you know by using less bombastic end expansive setting and in favor of, for example, the capital city of your State or Country, if not your bumfuck hometown itself?

>>96896977
Speaking of, how permissive are you with learning Gifts?
>WtA
For Breed/Auspice/Tribe gift I make it immediate at the expenditure of XP, due to natural inclination, meditation "during downtime", and the Tribe Totem kind of having established "subcontracts" with lesser spirits so that they teach those Gift without questions by default ("Oh, yeah, I sense the touch of Cockroach over you, here, go Electroshock people you furry oaf").

For anything outside of those parameters, you either find and chiminage an appropriate spirit that is powerful enough (so low-Gnosis spirits can teach you basic stuff but you can't learn a Level3 gift from a Duracell battery so you better gain access to the local power plant–or at least substation–somehow) or you learn from your packmates, and all of that must be done in active game and takes the appropriate amount of time (immediate/after-you-hold-up-your-chiminage for Gifts taught directly by spirits, the book-default of at least one month if your pack mate is teaching you).

Would you say that that is boring and bogging down the game with narrative XP taxes, or would you agree that that is a measure of holding the whole process to some sense of narrative choerence?

>>96897275
I haven't care for most of the canon metaplot in a while. Sure I can use it for hooks but for the most part it's not really my cup of tea.

Was he Imbued?

>>96897275
Being European, I just keep setting my campaigns in cities close to home. For one, it's much easier to meet a cool elder vampire in Europe, for two, I get to write what I know, plus my players are already familiar with it and for three, my country is a giant unknown in the official lore, so I can do whatever without breaking the WoD lore too much.

>>96897480
Definitely a Wayward.

>>96895924
Wtf is this? Riding bean?

>>96897504
>my country is a giant unknown in the official lore
Knowing that the majority of White Wolf writers were Americans who didn't know anything about any country outside of the USA beyond pop culture, some of their misconceptions about Europe, especially in non-Vampire books, are pretty hilarious.

I remember there being a small handout that listed a bunch of your inmate powers as a vtr vampire. Is there a similar one for vtm/what are your innate vtm vampire powers?

>>96897549
Oh, yeah, that's the other reason. I was actually curious what WW has to say about Poland and it's the most generic and stereotypical shit out there. Poland = Eastern Europe = Russia = Tzimisce, right? Never saw that shit coming.
Then I realized that overwhelming majority of Polish nobility would be textbook Brujah, there would most likely be some Tremere occultists and Mages running around, while Tzimisce would be hellbent on taking the region for themselves and werewolves would be commonplace. And suddenly the whole campaign started to take shape.

>>96895368
You could let the prince give the players some normal work, so they trust him a bit more.
You could also include some red herings that appear as a possible source for the disease. Like a doomsday cult or a tremere who is pushing his boundaries.

>>96896940
Some artists are just really really bad you can tell who it 8s immediately. Like Chuck Walton's RIFTS art

>>96897606
There is that one small pagan subset of Tremere who are adverse to Christian symbology & have presence instead of dominate

>>96896366
>magic versions of those foam critter capsules that expand when you put them in water

>>96898110
That would be a very Etherite thing to make

>>96897606
don't forget they also turned all of shadowland poland into a single "ghetto" based on the warsaw ghetto
>>96897813
those haven't been there for 800 years

>>96896735
Vampire is the worst one.

>>96898110
>Take that, Techies! I have on me the new and upgraded version of pocket sand, pocket dinosaurs! Have at ye!

>>96897275
Latter. Newfoundland is a province-sized patch of bumfuck nowhere, so setting a chronicle here is funny.

>>96898110
You could make a bunch of literal toys come to life. Like have a group of little green army men be a pocket task force. Plastic dinosaurs tearing people apart. You could carve fake aliens & have them abduct someone. Hyper intelligent "animals". Heck, make bird & rat ushabti, then fill them with explosives. Possibly make an ushabti that looks like some vampire you hate & have them do something that will lower their reputation or get them red listed. Too bad you cant make shrunk down equipment with it. Having a weapon, car or motorcycle in your pocket would be cool

>>96898110
Taking these sponge toys and diving them Vitae to grow makes too much sense

>>96897275
I either make up a fake city in a place no one cares about, usually replacing an existing city, or I use a state capital or big city that either has an unmistakable identity, or that the players are familiar with

>>96895459
I have the de Lucca clan in my VtR games when I ran them. They ran on head vampire rules ala Treehouse of Horror, something I always felt the Tremere pyramid was working towards but never did. They had a base of operations in Sicilly and formed a social pyramid structure of their own out of necessity, as the death of one elder (or praytell, even the founder of the clan) would be apocalyptic for them.

>>96896270
Those sound good, I'll give them a try. I am using Monks tile triggers to let the players use stairs etc, but since we've been outside a lot lately it's not come up as much.

>>96897480
But who was he going after? I can only think of Technocracy goons (not mages)

>>96897275
I actively and aggressively write over the metaplot whenever I feel like it.

>>96899079
Yeah, but do you set your games in NEW YORK NEW ORLEANS SAN FRANCISCO LOS ANGELES, or in the little town in the boonies that everybody at the table is very familiary with?

>>96899092
Mix of both. Sometimes the game is a big well known city, other times a podunk town in the middle of nowhere. Some games are even globe trotting.

I know I'm late to the party, but I just read Tattered Facade and fuck what they did to the Baali. A smarter wight? Really?

Tell me about your havens. Are they simple? Are they complicated? How protected are they and what kind of protections/alarms/wards/defensive measures do you use? For Storytellers, what are some cool havens you've made for NPCs? Whats the "average" haven for a neonate>ancillae>elder? How paranoid is too paranoid?

>>96899331
>How paranoid is too paranoid?
Can a vampire ever be too paranoid?

>>96896894
>Bone Gnawers forced into poverty
Rat is kind of a bastard eh

>>96896845
Seems telltale over promised themselves again

>>96896821
>While never leaving Glabro
>No one noticed the new hire is 8 foot tall and hairy as all hell

In the Imbued campaign I'm running in Astoria, OR, a group of teenage larpers decide to have a last hurrah of patrolling the town in their superhero personas (kinda like Kickass) before two of them go off to college. The local game shop owner is a changeling who takes advantage of this by inducing Rhapsody in each of the boys so that he can sustain himself as he relocates out of town due to encroaching banality caused by Pentex buying up many local businesses. Overflowing with energy and commitment to the bit, the three friends actually succeed in stopping a kidnapping. Unfortunately, the kidnappers are a Sabbat pack and they make the Brujah runt of the group pay for the fuck up by making the boys into shovelheads. This backfires spectacularly as the lone Sabbat Brujah is caught off guard when one of the boys, frenzied yet still overflowing with rhapsody, diablerizes the other two and then his sire. He now has their rhapsodized souls inside him and is deluded that he's been given superpowers and has to find where the fiends took his friends. He has his own kind of path of enlightenment where he keeps the beast at bay by playing the role of a superhero, and he is locked into rhapsody since that was the state of mind he was in while he was embraced. Is this conceivably possible? I'm playing fast and loose with the rules and I'm not super familiar with Changeling.

>>96899538
>Man, these new plastic surgery methods are something else, huh?

>>96896963
It couldn't be that I have a legitimate gripe with the lore. No, that's impossible.
>>96898524
Vampire is the one that ties them all together though I agree that they shouldn't be together at least not while werewolf and mage are so poorly written.

>>96899554
These are mother's adoptive children too, I shall refrain from calling them what they are

Can somebody give me a quick guide to creating NPCs in V5? primarily for Hunter.
The corebook gives some exemples of quarry but gives jack shit in terms of guidelines for making your own.
How should I assign values to standard and exceptional dice pools? how i calculate health and willpower for non-PCs? etc.. any advice is better than nothing

>>96899587
I'll only accept them once they reject the their false idol G*ia (Weaver forgive me for uttering such filth)

>>96899331
>local rumored elder haven that's broaching too paranoid
Subway tunnels, boltholes, and basements interconnected through odd means, lead down below the sewers and the nosferatu's territory. Convening in what would be some kind of reservoir under the metropolitan area, the size of a city block. Being a reservoir it's about eighty percent filled most of the time with waters that become abyssal the more they look into it. If one's brave enough to sink down into the depths, they'll find flooded rooms that tend to result in dead-ends despite the odd third room leading out of the reservoir. Rumor has it, that at the lowest point of the reservoir where another drain should be is a room dug into the foundations. Containing what feels and looks to be a metal cabinet as if made for holding tools. The only other object in the room is a floor sized mirror.
If the intruders take to long exploring the dead-ends or getting to the lowest room, the depths in the reservoir start becoming weird. Particularly adventurous kindred have reported seeing floating lights in the watery darkness, feeling movement just out of reach, and the ever present notion of being watched from all around filter into their senses. Those particularly unused to diving at particular depths have noted seeing shadows larger than the reservoir itself in the depths though these get hand-waved as one being unused to the isolation and darkness inherent to diving. One particular kindred that explored the reservoir, an apparent survivor of an underwater 'attack', spoke of something colossal that had apparently been tracking them after a certain depth and seemed to shrug off or ignore commands to go away.
Naturally the Elder's actual room isn't even in the reservoir, it's connected to the mirror at the bottom.

>>96899296
I haven't even bothered to check V5 stuff since...Sabbat book?
Considering they are are basically adding Baali because they are forced to (remember, Baali was a huge no in the earlier years of V5 and didn't even feature in Cults of the Blood God or Forbidden Religions), I am not surprised they suck. I even imagine they are antagonists only like Sabbat.

>>96897275
My ST favors fictional cities that he can do whatever he wants to with, though they often contain locales inspired by real places he's been.

You know people wonder how Sabbat hide themselves but...
*looks at Mexico
>Mr. Manzo died of his injuries at a hospital, the state’s attorney general, Carlos Torres Piña, said in a video statement. He was the seventh mayor to be killed in Michoacán since 2022.
And WoD is like, several times worse than RL. Even London is 5x worse so...

>>96899570
Actually, Werewolf the Apocalypse is one that ties them all together. It's the origin of the Umbra cosmology, which Vampire the Masquerade has nothing to do with. Vampire just jacks off in its corner, mumbling about muh Noddism.

>>96899717
I'm fairly certain WoD London is somehow safer with the sizeable leech population that with the current political situation that leftist writers want to ignore. Mexico would be about the same, dudes getting murdered in broad moonlight or something

>>96899735
Vampire seems more like a foundational background for the general mood and atmosphere. The Umbra and everything else seems to depend on the gameline Although since Wraith was their first game you'd think it was all based around that

>>96899769
London is fine as long as you keep away from handful of bad neighborhoods and public transit.

>>96899778
I'd argue that Mage, Werewolf and Changeling all have moods and atmospheres much closer to each other than anything close to Vampire's.

>>96899778
I've always felt like Vampire & Wrsith were the most well thought out & complementary. Mage can sort of fit in if you squint. Changeling & Werewolf have the most problems, but werewolf itself has so MUCH lore & it can be really good too, so it sucks that it doesn't mesh cleanly into the rest.

>>96899785
Sounds like you live in the london banana of safety
>>96899717
How many presidential candidates died before the Jewish hag won? Fucking ventrue politicking if ive ever seen it

Kindred of the East is a model for a Vampire game that actually fits in the with rest of the world of darkness

>>96899769
Nah, WoD London, or really, nearly everywhere, is a shithole.

>>96899824
It's the human versus schizoid alien perspective until W5 . Mage being based on Ars Magica also helped, W:tA feels like it could have been its own game instead with how different the setting and tone kind of is. I'd say everything is still pretty crappy but being a supernatural tank fighting a doomed fight is a lot more hopeful than playing Mr. bottom of the barrel

>>96899735
Werewolf is wicca cringe. I'm not trying to fuck a girl who owns crystals so I don't have to pretend it's good. It's gay.

>>96899843
Is there anywhere in WoD that doesn't suck to live in unless you're a hippy or live in America?

>>96899851
Yet you're pretending that VtM is good, so are you trying to fuck a suicidal goth girl instead?

>>96899854
...
If we stretch the definition of "live". Heavens in the Umbra?
Honestly, go to the holiest place you can think of and live a quite life if you ever isekai into WoD. Like at least Mecca has Keening and True Faith soaks the land. Plus you are close to Mummies.

>>96896963
>>96899570
You're both half-right though. A lot of what goes into if someone likes or dislikes a story, setting, medium, etc is subjective. One can dislike something while acknowledging it to be well crafted, aka "It's not for me."

On the other hand, just because an issue is subjective does not mean it is illegitimate. It's very legitimate. You can even have a legitimate gripe with something you like.

It's fair to say that oWoD takes a pretty sharp turn to a very different tone and conceit the minute you leave vampire. As vampire is the most popular line and almost always the gateway line for people, it's not wrong for a decent chunk of the people who got into vampire to look at the umbrafuckery splats and go "Ew, that's not what I signed up for." At the same time, if you like those things, it isn't, or rather shouldn't, be a personal attack against you for liking something someone else dislikes.

>>96899655
>>96899402

I've thought about it & the best idea I can think of is to Dominate/Bloodbond your way into the unused bowels of a government building that still has active security & an important purpose. Like under a courthouse or utility station. Something that's humdrum, but vital for infrastructure so that if any suspicious people try to poke around the government itself will deal with them before you have to. Then, you build a few secret doors & a bit of a maze with a few more secret doors. Then you start layering wards & guardians. Include at least one room that's hostile to life like you mentioned a deep reservoir of water, but it could be a deadly gas or whatever will kill humans but not vampires. Only after all that would I want to place "living quarters" that are as cushy as any penthouse. And even with all that, I'd want to sleep in at least one further level of defense, like you said, teleporting through a mirror to another room. Etc.

>>96899872
Doesn't the Middle East have a bunch of vampires too or the like? Or some soulless corp rolls around invests in shit and suddenly I have furries with anger issues as my neighbors

Say I wanted to bring werewolf and Changeling into line with the Christian lore side Vampire & Wraith (each one progenitored by Caine and Abel) what is the best way to explain their origins & powers? I don't care how much old lore I need to rewrite, & I don't mind using apochphrica to justify it too much. There's a lot of "he gave command of the beast of the lands" that might work & fae could possibly just be some of the host of Heaven that got swept from Heaven & didn't align with Lucifer. But I want stronger progenitor connections if possible. Maybe using Adam's other kids? Adam is already representing Mage for me, so I'm trying to fit the others in

>>96899953
>Werewolf
Seth or Adam
>Changeling
Eve because of her connection to Wratihs. Maybe one of her daughters and the Wraith connection mutated into the fae post-flood.
Adam's also a terrible mage.

>>96895641
It's serious! German humor is no laughing matter!

>>96899538
>Glabro
>8 ft tall

I mean, if the character has Huge Size, maybe, but it's only an extra foot at most. With Fair Glabro, it is, in fact, the Gigachad form, up until some other form-related Gift shenanigans. The Silent Striders probably get the best one in their older tribebook, where they become an Ancient Egyptian Gigachad, who is so chad that all social Attributes are set to 6.

>>96899953
I just assumed it was something like he made the Tellurian and all was kumbaya until Caine decided to be a dick though I think W:tA can't exist historically with the Christian side of the lore since
>Werewolves need to genocide humanity enough for them to get incredibly scared
>Caine would have to be around for it
>Werewolves would need to have experienced the flood
Personally, I just treat them both as foundational myths either believe in that may or may not have happened but no one is around to say it except for Caine
As for Changeling maybe it was just a side-effect of human thought

>>96900018
Damn, those wolves get free benefits like that and they're still losing? It's like supernatural EBT

>>96899887
Sounds reasonable, though depending on if it's an elder or ancilla, I'd probably build in the governmental defenses to be a facade of bureaucracy to also protect from internal poking. We don't want auditors to be going there physically and wondering why this room isn't on the blueprints. For a haven avoiding water, I'd have several kill rooms myself. Maybe two or so kine kill rooms, one on the way to the actual haven, and one just before the haven that's coupled to kill kine and kindred.
I'd also suggest, in relation to the living quarters, that its actual exit may connect to some kind of an underground pedestrian hub allowing for greater ease of movement. Might be after some twists and a mini-maze but it's something the owner can get through in a frenzy because of their instinctual knowledge.

I suppose when it comes to an extensive haven like that, I'd worry about nosferatu getting too curious.

>>96899953
How serious do you want their origins to be? Because you can say that both are the results of demonic possession , curses or animal versions of the nephilim.

The meme version would be something like the serpent fed other animals the fruit of knowledge or Noah fucked one of the animals when he got drunk at the ark.

>>96900068
Pharaoh Form is, in their defense, a rank 5 Gift that was left by the wayside in Revised, and of a not particularly populous tribe that's mostly made of drifters and rootless wanderers. Fair Glabro is also a merit and thus not supposed to be a common capability.

>>96900107
>Noah fucked one of the animals

If you know your biblical BS you should know that Adam fucked a lot of different things between Lilith and Eve.

>>96899688
They are effectively wights possessed by notdemons. Not only antagonists only but not even a bloodline/conspiracy etc

>>96899949
There are vampires but the Keening is probably the best fucking thing there is against every evil thing in WoD.
First off, every ability cost is doubled inside holy grounds and mosques. Plus no vampire, fomori, spirit, bane mummy, Apophis BS, Wyrm BS etc. can even enter Mecca or Medina without going through Hajj.
Second, any supernatural perception gets more and more dangerous the closer you are to Mecca or Medina. And if you aren't under a very specific ritual created by one individual, every supernatural ability is affected, not just supernatural perception.
Oh and you basically need to use 30 Willpower, 1 everyday for a month, to sleep inside the Keening until you adapt to the sound. What sound? Oh you know, sound of the fucking sun moving across the sky.

If you are a mortal, the best place in WoD is straight up Mecca or Medina for you. If only because 99% of supernatural BS isn't there.

>>96900180
I'm somehow guessing that this doesn't apply to the Vatican before I assume it's cucked shit I'll say it's because Muslim prayer is very directed unlike Christian prayer for reasons but damn, that actually is pretty insane.

>>96900199
>Vatican
You can always go live near the HQ of the SoL, it a 30 minutes drive from the Vatican. That place beams true faith and has a small army of inquisitors stationed there at all times.

>>96900235
I guess religious places are safe then until some leech or ghoul gets uppity

What is mummy?

>>96900199
No idea but you wanna know the funny part? This is weakened Keening. There was no ritual and the Keening was all over the Middle East in the past. Before the Black Stone was stolen. And it is still stupidly powerful.
Also canonically, The Keening is still in V5. And the Red Gas used by the Second Inquisition (and in Bloodhunt game) reminds vampires of it.

>>96900263
A cutsie version of mum that kids use sometime to refer to their mother.

>>96900263
It's kind of like a Risen, basically a ghost who got made immortal via a magic spell but whereas a Risen has to go through hoops to go back to it's body a Mummy just gets to keep on trucking thanks to the life spell

>>96899953
One anon mentioned a while ago that Demon the Fallen implies that Gaia is actually an angel named Zillah put in charge of caring for nature by God, and apparently even the changing breeds are mentioned (though not by name)

>>96900254
Pretty much but they have to be popular (people still worship there). You better hope no werewolf decided to have a random chimpout there though. True Faith won't work on them like it does on vampires.

This is all hilarious when you know that Mecca is a glorified tourist trap today. The Saudis have torn up historical sites of immense value to Islam to build ritzy hotels for people on Hajj. Shit's Ventrue through and through.

>>96900319
>using ventrue as an insult

>>96897275
It's hard to run WoD games in your bumfuck hometown unless you live next to one of the big cities. The world and it's chronicles are meant to be set around spectacle and big happenings. Sadly, there's just not much going on in Cleveland. Meanwhile CofD was designed with that in mind.

>>96899868
I have my problems with VtM too but it's not as bad as Werewolf.
>>96899875
Wow, a sensible person. You don't see that much anymore.

>>96900308
>Demon was the glue making the setting coherent all along
>Get's cancelled for being too weird
Pain

>>96899849
>Mage being based on Ars Magica
It wasn't just Mage, the World of Darkness was explicitly set in the future of Ars Magica from Vampire's launch up until a last minute retcon on the eve of the rights sale.

>>96900318
Why would a Werewolf chimp out in a holy place unless it's a Red Talon?
>>96900480
What would WtA be like? Fucking an emotionally unstable druid larper in a dog costume?

>>96900532
>Why would a woof chimp out
Anon, you know woofs right? I'd be surprised if they didn't before reaching the holy place. They don't need a reason especially when it comes to some heretical cult

>>96900361
That's only the case if you're playing ToJ stuff. Treating big bombastic spectacle as the norm for World of Darkness chronicles is a bit misleading.

>>96900545
I'm surprised there aren't Muslim werewolves since apparently there happen to be Jewish/Christian werewolves in the setting
>>96900529
I know VtM is partially based on it too but isn't Wraith/Werewolf their own thing other than being WoD

>>96900308
>>96900107
>>96900020
>>96900009
Right now I'm leaning towards borrowing from non canonical stuff like Awan & Azura. If I stretch, Azura; daughter of Adam & Eve = Asura; a loose interpretation of Indian warrior spirits I might be able to make it work. Then werewolves can be raging "asurans" or some shit that have gotten diluted to just werewolves. To be honest I'm probably not gonna end up with what I want, but I'm aiming for five supernaturals that relate to the direct descendants of Adam & Eve, excluding Mages.

So patrons/progenetors would be
Caine> Vampires
Abel> Wraiths
Azura> Werewolves
Awan> Changelings
???> ???
Demons are tied to Lillith, Prometheans/Artificial life is somewhat tied to Eve, mortals are Seth, Mages are Adam. I'm also debating just removing werewolves completely from the line up since werewolf/shape-shifting is tied to every other supernaturals half the time
>>96900121
I ain't spreading that particular Hebrew nonsense

>>96900556
IIRC some Ars Magica stuff made it in as late as 1st edition Book of the Wyrm, but yeah Wraith came out when the split was fully underway.

>>96899717
>>96899769
Sabbat Inquisition in Mexico is also doing a shit job at cleaning up Baali. Pic related is Tepito. The Santa Muerte shit also reeks of the Harbingers getting uppity.

>>96900574
Hmm, I don't think you should go that Ham on the 5 supernaturals thing. Somethings like Wraiths are purely a part of the setting without needing to be related to a biblical-esque figure. Are you trying to run a multiple splat game for this or what's the occasion?

>>96900574
Tie mages to Lilith, demons to Lucifer. It'd be better supported

>>96900583
Mexico being sabbat-land is pretty funny

>>96900583
>the cops just passing by to get their weekly bribe

>>96900318
Doesn't True Faith lower Rage?

>>96900556
>I'm surprised there aren't Muslim werewolves since apparently there happen to be Jewish/Christian werewolves in the setting
The difference here is that the Middle East didn't industrialise or centralise to the same extent as Europe, meaning that there's still heaps of wilderness where Garou can live apart from humanity there, instead of having to integrate into human society as is the case in Europe.

>>96900583
>Sabbat Inquisition in Mexico is also doing a shit job at cleaning up Baali.

No shit, canonically there was a Baali Methuselah beneath their capital the entire time. Honestly, as often as White Wolf missed when it came to verisimilitude, Mexico being all Sabbat outside of the nice tourist traps and yet simultaneously infested with infernalism and weird pre-columbian shit was dead on the money.

Not to mention, the Sabbat Inquisition's ineptitude is hardly exclusive to Mexico. Never forget that time the Sabbat Inquisition went to Montreal, found ONE infernalist out of a half dozen, and when they went to actually execute him, he used his devil magic to bodyswap himself with the lead Inquisitor. The demon he was serving then proceeded to revive the burnt alive Inquisitor in a body that was an exact copy of the infernalist he burned and was body-swapped into. Presumably for a laugh.

I genuinely can't name a time the Sabbat Inquisition got an official W.

Why is there conflict between the courts in Lost? It's not a secret in setting that the reason they even have the courts is the ritualized trade off of power keeps the Keepers away. Are they just stupid?

>>96900601
Lillith & Lucifer made demons. Demons are the inverse of Mages. Mortals can make a deal with a Demon & thats where witchcraft & whatnot comes from, but Mages would be closer to humanity being the "idealized master of all of God's Creation". Demons are more about subverting Creation & working around it.

>>96900597
Its stupid, probably really stupid, but I want to make a setting/adapt oWoD/CofD's setting into revolving around a pentagram based supernatural world. Five splats tied to five different parts. Vampires, Mages, & Demons being outside of the pentagram for reasons. Its just a heartbreaker idea of mine that im sort of fixated on

>>96900710
Yeah this seems like the sort of project that you aren't going to really get 1-1 WoD for instead of repurposing something a bit less convoluted like Urban shadows or curseborne I think

>>96900710
By that notion Seth should be the mage

>>96900710
To expand, each "facet" of humanity/reality is a part of the five supernatural worlds & five traits/themes.

Wraith & ghosts are tied to Memories
Changelings/fae are tied to Emotions
Werewolves/primal world are tied to Instinct
Prometheans are tied to something like Animus or motive force/breath of life
Maybe some take on Beast/eldritch nightmares tied to Thought

With those five traits you get humanity as a whole. Vampires are sort of a foil to humanity, one step towards darkness, there theme is Blood

>>96900695
You answered your own question, if they were too united they would be a monolithic entity and the cycle of power that keeps the True Fae away would be rendered null and void. Also, they're still people and people are not immune to excessive ambition or greed or spiteful idiocy.

>>96900603
>shovelheads clashing with coked-up favela youths, and losing

>>96900695
The conflict isn't so intense that violence regularly breaks out or that they're willing to prohibit the exchange of power, unless the situation has gotten really dire.
But changelings who rise up the ranks of a particular court typically feel very strongly about that court's approach to the Gentry.
Let's say that the Court is made aware of a powerful token that could be wielded against their Keepers, but was stolen from one of the Gentry who is eager to reclaim it. Summer doctrine might say that it should actively be used as a weapon against the True Fae. Autumn doctrine might say that it should be used as a bargaining chip to ward off the True Fae or turn them on each other. Winter doctrine might say that it should be hidden or destroyed in order to not draw too much attention to the freehold. Spring doctrine probably doesn't give a shit, which means that the other courts would try to earn their favour and get them to take a side.
This is unlikely to result in civil war, but disagreements like this are bound to result in courtly intrigue, espionage, duels and drama.

>>96900747
Mortals/Mages are the same just either the switch is powered on or it's not, so that's fine, I just see Adam & the Patricarchs as the Mage-like ones, while Seth is more or less the regular guy. >>96900743
I'll probably use CofD as the ruleset or go with something more basic, but I am gonna be stealing stuff like oWoD clans, Caine lore, Wraith lore, etc. I'm not about to try to work a bunch of "Not!Ventrue" or "Not!Tzimisce!" setting material when I can just tell my players "it's like xyz unless I say otherwise"

>>96900121
Yeah but that's far enough in the past that any animal could be a shifter.

>>96900803
What did you expect? A single Sabbat Win?

>>96895274

And who put this erection in your pants?

Oh, all this actual gamesposting made me forget, an Anon asked me to share the finale of the Hunter: the Vigil game I was playing in.

It was a great finale! Our final foe was an Inferno Demon, The Blind Shadow. To my utter shock in post, he was only Rank 4. I didn't realize Inferno Demons were that powerful. The showdown with him came in two phases. Phase 1 was us running the gauntlet through the remaining cave passages before we reached his lair while he spammed Influence powers. Some of his tricks included trying to get us stuck in an infinite loop where we continued down the same passage multiple times, turning gravity in a chamber 90 degrees, causing us to all have to catch a stalagmite/stalactite or otherwise break our fall, causing said cave fixtures to begin rapidly growing until we were all crushed or we escaped the room, that kind of fun stuff.

Phase 2 was the final showdown, we had reached the room containing his Reliquary, the thing binding him to this world. (our group takes stuff from both oWoD and nWoD, so we borrowed some Earthbound mechanics from Devil's Due). Combat wasn't really The Blind Shadow's bag, he preferred to work through influences and pactmaking, the chronicle's main plot was taking down all his worshippers to leave him weak enough for us to actually attack him. So, despite having Hellform which gave him fucking Nine Actions per turn (which in nWoD/CofD is even more insane), he didn't have the weapon equivalents to just blend our whole cell (10 Hunters total, 5 PCs).

The fight itself was almost like a football game, more about us surviving him long enough to find and destroy his Reliquary. Our Aegis Kai Doru almost died destroying it, and he ripped the Lucifuge's familiar to shreds. With the Reliquary destroyed, he began rapidly fading, but still had a few turns left to try and kill us. It ended with my character and the Lucifuge beating his ever-weakening form down.

Great finale, everyone had a chance to shine.

>>96900803
just like in the goty 2025

>>96899868
>so are you trying to fuck a suicidal goth girl instead?
Don't be ridiculous. There aren't any real goth girls left.
>>96900532
>What would WtA be like?
Pic related.

>>96899296
Oh yeah, that shit is out. Might as well check it out.
>baali-in-name-only
HAH! This is just a shittier fomori. I can see that they are even scared to mention proper demons. Like always, for every step V5 takes, they take 5 steps back. But hey, it is still better H5s "We take no steps and shimmer in our boredom and mediocrity" and W5s "We don't take steps, we backflip into the shitpile"
>>96899606
You are asking for the 5th Edition here, not many bother answering that edition's questions here.
I will give my own way of creating mortal NPCs.
A)Are they fighters or not?
-)If they are, decide if they are melee or ranged.
-)If not, what are they? Doctor? Office Worker? Janitor? etc.
B)Depending on the result, better than average stats in the relevant Traits, high or peak human stats for exceptional mortal NPCs, alongside merits and flaws. Roll 1d10 for Willpower, with bonuses depending on how exceptional you want your mortal.
C)Plausible motivation. This is especially important if they are hunters.

In the end, I also roll a 1d100 for a special sheet I created. Depending on the result, I give them things like extra Flaws, Merit, equipment or even supernatural connections

>>96901141
Thanks for the update.

>>96895216 (OP)
What do I need to do to run a VtM 20th campaign for 6 people,?, what books of lore do I need?, is there any good introductory adventure I can run, we have never run or played VtM before

>>96901456
Just V20 core is enough.
But if you want to read about the septs, clans and how function in detail:
V20 Core + Guide to the Camarilla + Guide to the Sabbat + Guide to the Anarchs + Lore of the Clans

This should cover everything. Afterwards you and your players can branch out to whatever you want. Like say, Clan Books

>>96901272
I would think this applies to mage more but very kek image

>>96901272
As someone who recently looked into the whole witchy pagan stuff, good lord those who participate in that get fleeced.
It would be like if someone started offering to ST sessions for $150 a person.

>>96901456
if everyone is fresh to it you don't need to worry about making your setting match up with every bit of metaplot and lore (you dont anyway but still)

Someone told me that the embrace locks you in the emotional headspace that you were in when you died. So if you were embraced while depressed, you tend to rouse from torpor every night feeling depressed. Is that true?

>>96901775
Made up, probably for a more personal chronicle. Ask your st or just look up embrace in the wiki

>>96901272
>There aren't any real goth girls left.
You''re correct, but only ironically. Like the unironic femboy nazis here's an actual subculture of conservatives goth who hate gay people and use the word fag every other sentence.
We live in the weirdest timeline.,

>>96901835
>We live in the weirdest timeline.,
T-thanks, GodMachine!

>>96901835
Pretty sure that shit got unofficially started by melaniemac

>>96901796
It's not completely made up, it's an established lore that Kindred body returns to the shape it was at the moment of Embrace (with exception for clan curse effects, and tzimisce fleshcraft). So if one was embraced a fatty or with a stubble, it's gonna be their default for ethernity.
Now, by strict biodeterministic interpretation, mood and personality are just neuron wirings in person's brain. So you could extrapolate that body "restoring to default" does include the mental setup.
Where this idea falls apart is that if this were strictly true, a vampire couldn't learn new things (or couldn't form new memories at all).

Does the vampires body combust in sunlight after its death.

>>96901924
>after its death
Anon that is the death! There is no explosion on its own, just immolation.

>>96901920
Maybe it becomes something the Kindred can "shake off" more quickly and easily the longer they have been around, but it does make thematic sense for there to be a constant inescapable reversion back to the moment of your mortal death that they must regularly endure. Perhaps this is why many embraces will happen during moments of intimacy or sex.

>>96901835
>femboy nazi's
Better said that there aren't many thin goth chicks left and Zoomettes aren't into that

>>96901929
I mean, cut off the head and then expose the left over corpse.

>>96902005
Oh no. Anything that causes final death will have the resultant corpse immediately experience the ravages of time. So something centuries old tend to leave a skeleton or dust behind. Within the century a decaying corpse, etc.
Ultimately up to the ST but yeah time ravaging is "standard"

I've come to realise that a large part of my problem with WtA is that its primary conflict is too central and there don't seem to be a lot of alternatives for a werewolf, being part of the garou nation is a full time job

>>96902029
You could always not be part of the violent death cult.

>>96902029
You can't part-time a holy obligation, goddamn Glass Walkers. Although yeah, but the whole rage part would make doing anything else too difficult but you don't need to be committing acts of terrorism at the shoe factory for every single Werewolf adventure

>>96901714
>>96901542
Thanks

>>96901835
There are a few left. I'm married to one. And no I don't mean some tattooed alt/punk bitch. I mean a Mary Shelley type, wears black & reads poetry OG goth.

So, I'm making my vampire waifu.
I've decided she'll have deep blue eyes, but can't decide on the hair color. Should I go with platinum blonde, a more "natural" blonde or redhead?

>>96902020
I imprinted on descriptions of a dry process, producing a desiccated jerky cadaver or collapsing instantly to dust, instead of turning into generational maggot shit and black slime such as forms inside garbage disposals.

>>96901950
>>96901920
>>96901775
My take is that the first second or so coming out of torpor is like reliving the moment of your embrace, feeling it like a bad dream. So if you got embraced on a battlefield, you hear the bullets & you feel the artillery shell impacts & the fear & anxiety, then the fog fades & the blood stirs. If you were embraced during sex you feel the coolness of her body, the texture of the sheets, & the smell of her perfume... then you blink & it's gone.

>>96902044
>You can't part-time a holy obligation, goddamn Glass Walkers
Don't worry, Mother is accepting applications from all, you just need to embrace progress.

>>96902140
I'll embrace h*man technology when the sun explodes

>>96902106
Why not raven hair? Celtic phenotype is unmatched

>>96902138
>sex final death
>coming out of daysleep sends you into a depression

>>96902155
>Why not raven hair?
Already used that with my former waifu.

>>96902189
Okay then, what's her personality & background?

>>96902153
>when the sun explodes
That's not on The Time Table. I'm afraid the only alternative is termination.

>>96902042
My issue is that there aren't many options other than being part of the violent death cult
>>96902044
I don't like that every werewolf is tied up in this holy obligation, even if you aren't a full time eco-terrorist it feels like everything you do is focused on the apocalypse

>>96902194
Brainy, loves math, arts and magic (yeah, she's going to be a Tremere). Introvert.
Looks young for her age.

>>96902106
>>96902236
You can't even decide on your own waifu by yourself? Choice paralysis, huh? No shame, I understand. Look, just do multiple choice. Anyone who was already judging you won't stop so you might as well commit to the bit. Make an all female coterie with you as the only guy. Pick 5 other waifus who are only made for you. Pick all the hair colors. No sense in stopping there, make every prince and primogen female, too. Have fun, Anon!

>>96902236
Redhead for sure, but green eyes

>>96902264
Nah, Yves Klein discussion a few thread ago really inspired. Her eyes are going to be Yves Klein Blue.

>>96902263
>No sense in stopping there, make every prince and primogen female, too.
kek

I wish there was a non diablerie way for a vampire to get a sort of "generational promotion" where after centuries of being a toady for an elder, they could re-embrace you & shoot your generation up without stigma

>>96899606
Not sure how applicable this is for V5 (I never played it), but in previous editions for random bystanders/civilians/victims I use this chart:
https://pastebin.com/MMzWcHGR

>>96902320
The Camarilla cope game is insane.

>>96902303
Fair enough. In that case as white blonde as you're willing to go. The full sabrina

>>96902232
That's what the game is about. There are ronin, there are lost cubs. They just exist out in the world. The stories aren't told about them because they're boring.

>>96902353
Well if it existed, the Camarilla would make a lot more narrative sense. An elder could string along so many low gen punks for centuries just with the implication

>>96901552
Nah, mage tried to appeal to the Sci-fi lovers with the technocracy "science is magic" horse shit.
>>96901557
Wicca was started by some dude who wanted to form a sex cult to trick dumbass women who think owning a bunch of candles makes them a witch into getting naked for him for "magical purposes. The whole basis of that shit is a scam. It's all just mentally ill women and the dudes who want to fuck them.
>>96901835
In my day everybody hated gays, subculture played no role in it.

>>96902360
Thanks, bro.

>>96902153
Who tf keeps giving Red Talons computers?

>>96902380
Can't be them. They'd never figure out how to turn it on (assuming they don't break it first)

>>96902396
A Weaver spirit listens if you growl harshly enough.

>>96902232
Every single splat's metaplot is tied into some sort of holy war/doomsday happening soon(tm). You can choose to not engage directly with it but it's a core of your character's identity and their worries. Yeah you can be a werewolf with a 9-5 but ultimately you can't escape your coworker giving you shit on a bad day and then exploding on them. There's tribal politics and other junk too outside of the eco-terrorist angle, but it depends how much of the lore you're willing to use. Technically, wolves have their own gay masquerade going on that they can be enforcing or dealing with rogue spirits, uppity packs, stolen moons, etc. It isn't ALL "muh gaia muh litany" but that's the core backdrop of the game just like Vampire is about the Masquerade and the oncoming Gehenna, or Wraith is about Oblivion and the Maelstrom, or Mage about how if you don't man up someone else will and life will suck

>>96902407
One learns to negotiate via angry gestures at the local human lovers

>>96902407
The ones responsible for menacing Mother's favourite children get their attention while I'm over here, making mom proud and I get no anwser? What am I doing wrong?

>>96902367
That's how Status works already

>>96895518
But elders don't come in canopic jars, right?
That does leave out the diablerising as the first layer of a conspiracy.
But having it be mixed in with a bunch of other grave goods might make them not immediately catch on.
>>96897692
My initial idea was having them doing a bunch of little tasks that all turned out
to have facilitated what happens. But I see how you could incorporate that idea. Make the context less obvious.
But i also don't want to take too long until the elder is in the city and people start disappearing and the plagues start.
>>96895708
But that doesn't make it the player's fault.

>>96902320
Vampire the requiem once again proves the superior handling of the vampire idea.

>>96902461
Maybe you should commit more terrorism

give me your best ostensively pro-camarilla assassin clan/ character idea
all I can come up with is toreador who strikes before you can see him or ventrue who commands others to do it but both are gayer than lurking in the shadows
nosferatu's allegiance is dubious, and don't get me started on banu and lasombra

>>96902555
explain

>>96902555
One thing I always found interesting about Requiem is that every vampire starts out as a Blood Potency 1 relative weakling, so their sire has to take a more active hand in mentoring them unless they're a typical Gangrel. Coupled with the cost of the Embrace, it makes the creation of a child into an expensive investment the sire has strong reason to protect until it can render dividends. It adds an interesting layer to the sire-childe relationship.

>>96902638
Malk that uses religious imagery hallucinations to make it look like a hunter did it.

>>96902461
You need to pursue Clarification anon. Best way to get it started is your nearest Shinzui store

What if W the forsaken but they're eco terrorists instead of border patrol?

>>96902684
This is just apocalypse or do you mean you want the Garou lore but with the Forsaken setting?

>>96902684
Nothing much changes. WtF is already full to the gills on the importance of ecological balance and so if you drop any sort of mass polluter into your chronicle they'd be the obvious target of the pack.

>>96902361
Yeah, and that's what I don't like about it, I find the garou nation boring and wish everything else didn't have to be boring to prop it up
>>96902432
I don't think WtA is comparable because most vampires don't give a fuck about gehenna and plenty of mages have goals unrelated to the traditions/technocracy conflict, werewolves don't even have a life outside of their metaplot which makes them feel a lot more one dimensional to me

Not even saying WtA is a bad game, just trying to explain what I don't like about it

>>96902635
>Using terrorism against eco-terrorist
You know what? You might be onto something. I need to make a movement, a global one. Death to the enemies of progress!

>>96902691
Kind of the opposite, I like forsaken more than apocalypse but prefer the ecoterrorist angle wta has going for it

>>96902715
That's a fair statement but I think at the same time everything ends up or will up through a lens of "if PC group doesn't do this then world will get fucked up". Admittedly I'm not terribly familiar with WtA to say if any modules or alternative stories can divorce your character away from the metaplot but at least in W5 you're forced into a 9-5. Werewolf just isn't a game for the same type of personal drama unless your flavor of personal drama is having anger issues and knowing your going to die an early death from a compulsion to kill the Wyrm and shit. Totally fair if you don't vibe with that, I think Forsaken on the other hand doesn't necessarily force you to be Spirit Ice full time

>>96902715
I think you could make Ronin or others interesting but they're not really tabletop friendly as it'd be a more personal story. Good for a video game or a VN, not so much tabletop

>>96902648
The invictus (Who are the closest to the traditional camarilla) have the ability for senior vampires to let their servants use bits of their power in return for service, as long as they do as they're told they get to act as if they're older vampires.
>>96902652
It does. It also makes the normal motivations given for embracing make much more sense.

>>96902638
Malkavian who tromps around invisibly in tactical gear with an AK full of explosive rounds and just blasts you with schizoid hallucinations (also bullets).

>>96902762
That's just the vtmb malk

>>96902504
Yeah but status isn't power. Power is power

>>96902555
Yeah Blood Potency is really nice. Wish v20 had it

>>96902744
I'm just the opposite; I liked Apocalypse better but I'd rather be a spirit cop than an eco-terrorist.

>youtube keeps recommending me videos of young (8-10) russian girls dancing.
S-should I be worried?

>>96902798
These Technocracy assassin-priming media protocols are getting more sophisticated by the day.

>>96902798
>russian
KGBastard. It's treason, then.

>>96902798
Always. They're manufacturing your profile for investigators to discover after the fact.

>>96902798
I thought they altered the algorithm to squash all that stuff.

>>96902817
>>96902824
>>96902840
>>96902866
Oh, fuck, I just F5'ed and I think they are getting younger.
H-help?

>>96902874
Still ruskies?

>>96902877
Yeah.
Or at the very least Cyrillic users.

>>96902883
Damn commie soviet bastard pawn of Drumpf

in all seriousness it's probably just yt pushing tiktok shit again

>>96902902
... and now there are more.
Fuck this shit, I'm going to learn Path of Technomancy.

>>96902638
Tremere Problem Solver
Maxed Willpower
As much Thaumaturgy as you're willing to give them. Path of Blood, Path of the Focused Mind, Path of Conjuration, Path of Mercury, Path of Spirit Manipularion
Necromancy too. Path of Skulls first, followed by the others

>Flaws
Nameless 5
Amnesia 2

>Merits
Unbondable 3
Invocation 2
Sanctity 2
Half Life 6

>>96902920
This reminds me of how random Youtube searches for innocuous things result in South Asian medical gore or animal torture.

>>96902929
>animal torture.
Evil shit.

>>96902925
Can Tremere learn that many paths normally?

>>96902817
Balderdash! These rumors of alleged "behavioral programming" videos on the so-called "information superhighway" are nothing more than baseless conspiracy theories being promoted by frauds and hucksters with an agenda! Just like the "recovered memory" foolishness, or all those baseless smears made against my good friend Jeffrey!

I kinda love how much of a nothing [Ventrue] is as an Antediluvian.
>Actually he was the first one and Caine trained him himself and put him in charge and he was so cool and...
>Okay what about after that?
>Oh uh, he immediately got murdered before he could do anything.
>Is he actually alive and was doing something in secret this entire time?
>No he's actually dead dead.
Like there's no secret metaplot, no 'true lore' of [Ventrue]'s background, hell, we don't even KNOW anything true about him. He's a total fucking nobody even if the Ventrue's legend about Caine choosing him are true (fat chance.) No other Clan has such a nothing irrelevant founder, and has so very little connection to Gehenna because of that.

The tzimeze and lasombra are usually portrayed as very persnickety about who they embrace, but are also members of the sabbat. And of course not everybody embraced is a shovelhead, but still how do those two sides interact? Are tzimeze and lasombra in regular boots on the ground packs? Do they embrace shovelheads when the need arises?

>>96903003
I always assumed Lasombra and Tzimisce shovelheads end up caitiff. Or Panders, as the case may be.

>>96903014
That name, panders, it angers me. You'd think it's a vaguely demeaning name for the lowly catiff but no they're actually called that after hero of the vampire civil rights movement John Pander. It's silly

>>96902967
Did he not sire Mithras?

>>96902942
Rank 5 Ritual Pursuit of Apotheosis & good scheming, along with Path of Skulls lowers you need for xp dramatically.

With Path of Skulls, a shovel, & some research you get 5 dots in just about everything. So no need to ever spend xp on that stuff. Especially if this guy is used as an assassin, it means he might even get some extra "headhunting" from the job too. Also, a ~liberal~ interpretation of what a "trait" counts as could mean raising his generation by eating skulls, but that's up to you & your pissed off Storyteller.

For Apotheosis, you have a difficult 7 (5 with a lucky Incantation amulet/circle) per sacrificed person to gain an xp point. Go empty out a El Savadorian prison, or some third world shit hole, or anywhere a large amount of evil people wont be missed. It wouldn't be hard to blond bond the warden, ensnare the prisoners, & heap a huge sacrifice of xp to your sorcery all while blaming it on some bad water or food. Even one big sacrifice could raise your generation & will for sure give you more xp than you'd probably know what to do with in the short term

>>96903051
Mithras stop posting, you aren't great.

>>96902967
>Like there's no secret metaplot, no 'true lore' of [Ventrue]'s background
You didn't read any of the clanbooks did you?
The only source of "[Ventrue] is 100% dead and there's no conspiracy" is the same book that claims Set is 100% dead before having him as the main antagonist 140 pages later. There just is no reliable canon around ventrue,

>>96903089
This seems like a fast way to get the ST a bit mad if you aren't pulling an impressive fast one on him

>>96903003
Tzims use fleshmonsters instead of shovel heads.

>>96903113
The point is that even if you want to claim he's alive there's no scenario that involves him, no secret plot he's implied to be participating in, anything like that. He has no plothooks. Sure you can make up your own, but just out of canon itself he's got nothing.

>>96902715
What would they do instead besides just hang out, and maybe occasionally kill someone during a frenzy?

>>96903113
Also the Ventrue clanbook is the source of the "Caine chose [Ventrue] to lead" story, and it specifically says "This might not be true and there's no way to tell but this is what the Clan believes."

>>96903135
nta but in W5 mainly work on a 9-5 and get bullied by people you could turn to paste. I'm sure there's avenues to explore about being a monster in love or something but I feel like that's not typically the purview of a tabletop rpg session

>>96902798
Welcome to the Seventh Generation, Snatcher.

>>96902936
Stop eating meat then.

>>96903161
May God protect me from pedobear's temptations.

>went east
>got their asses kicked
>came back west
>got their asses kicked
Does any clan have a more pathetic history than the Gangrel?

>the Progenitor of the Clan known for extreme resilience and the power to tamper with and control the minds and memories of others is totally, 100%, definitely, incontrovertibly, pinky promise, no refunds dead
Hm...

>>96903175
They get to have the sex with wolves in the woods though so isn't that technically a win?

>>96903175
They ruled the Norse and everyone likes those guys.

>>96903184
Even if he's not it's pretty boring that he never does anything, and that there's no stories of him doing anything.

>>96903175
>>96903194
And Brunhilde's fucking all those Fenris

>>96903184
>most boring ass guy may not be dead
>guise I swer I'm interesting
No wonder the Ventrue are sensitive

It does kind of fit though that the most basic and boring Clan's Antediluvian is the most basic and boring.

Requiem's clans are ported from Masquerade, so Gangrel, Nosferatu and Ventrue are pretty much the originals carried over as-is and Daeva are Toreador with a different name. What about the Mekhet though?

>>96903118
I only mention cool shit you can do by the book. Whether it's good for your table or allowed by your ST is not up to me, but it's all legit. Thaumaturgy pays for itself in so many ways. Even if you anger some wraiths with your nonsense if you have the right Necromancy Paths you can enslave them too & that just makes you stronger. An army of wraith guarding you during the day is a great boon since not many other kindred can stop them. Plus with Half Life you can shift into the Shadowlands whenever you like too which practically no other vampire can do talk about haven defense! Why not build a nice haven & then hide out in the shadowlands version of it?

>>96903228
Mekhet is Malk+Set+Lasombra rolled into one or some such. It's more about being secretive and stealth with egyptian set dressing

>>96903198
>>96903204
>the progenitor of the Clan known for manipulating the emotions (Presence) and minds and memories (Dominate) of everyone around them never did anything of note and nobody remembers ever seeing him
Hm...

>>96903254
I don't think you get the point being made. Yes, he could do that, and you could have that happen as the ST. But it's just boring. Does it make sense as something he could do, and be funny in an ironic way (the most enduring Antediluvian is the one nobody knows is even there anymore, and who always makes sure nobody knew he was so all the Jyad shit just misses him) but it's effectively boring to think about. Unless you release something that says "This is what [Ventrue] has been doing for 5000 years that he then erased from the world's memory so nobody could catch him doing it."

>>96903266
Ventrue is leading or founder of the Inconnu or something isn't he? The stuffy distant elders who don't get involved but seem to play both sides of the Jyhad, mostly watching & nudging when things need nudged

>>96903249
To this day I still insist Auspex should've been a common Discipline and their signature should've been not-Obtenetration.

>>96903118
Pulling a fast one on your ST is a good way to make them MORE mad. I know it's rare for WoD STs to be hands off and just let their players have fun, but there are good STs in the community.

>>96903275
I'd think a really good fast one would be impressive enough, though you'd probably have to retire the character after using him for a bit

>>96903283
>>96903275
I made & played this character in a real game, (though he was technically a Caitiff & very terrified he would be found out) the character quickly unbalanced the game but my ST didn't much care as he was just surprised by the crazy things I did. He was expecting brujah & toreador level theater kid power fantasies which is what the other players were doing, not scheming political manipulating cult leaders trying to become overpowered. I did have a secondary character that was much less crazy that I played too so it wouldn't always be so bad.

>>96903201
>Revised
>Fenris want to kill the Aesir

Probably not.

In a meta sense, I think they went down the "he dead" route simply because writing Antediluvians is hard and saw an easy way to have to write one less Antediluvian. If I might weigh in with my own solution to the Ventrue Antediluvian problem.

First, I'll say there is 0 chance that Caine liked Ventru or viewed him as a genuine heir. The Erciyes Fragments specifies Ventru as the "proudest" of the third Generation, and one theme that keeps popping up in regard to Caine's rulership of the First City is that Caine believed seniority was the only legitimate grounds for rulership. Coincidentally, Caine's only qualification for rulership was being older. He abhorred diablerie, and at every turn reinforced the sire's rights over the childe's. He would never support a 3rd gen cutting in line to rule over the 2nd. If Ventru was so proud, odds are Caine couldn't stand him. The Book of Nod credits Ventru for designing much of the First City's infrastructure, so it is quite likely that Caine didn't just kill the self-important Ventru because the city would go to shit without him.

For the reasons of pride and the seeming inherent predisposition for power hungriness that the Ventrue possess, I would also credit Ventru for being one of the ringleaders of the uprising against the 2nd Generation. Both the Ventrue and Assamites sometimes claim they weren't cursed by Caine, that their clan curse is actually a badge of honor, and both have blood consumption related curses, which tells me that both probably did something bad.

Which moves us on to the meat of things, the Second City and Ventru's alleged final death. Unless one outright rejects the existence of a cohesive second city in the first place, none would reject the notion that Ventru ruled it as the first Prince. Interestingly, there is reference to certain 3rd gens being exiled from the second city rather than killed outright. I'd attribute this to Ventru not wanting to tempt Caine's wrath by slaying his siblings.
cont.

>>96903367
Now most accounts of Ventru's death claim he was ganked after leaving to find Caine and ask him to return. I doubt this highly. It again syncs up with the implausible "Ventru was Caine's favorite" narrative. Suffice it to say, I do not think Ventru met Final Death. It's simple, which is harder to believe?
>Ventru faked their own Final Death/the entire story was fabricated centuries or millennia later.
>Every single Ventrue 4th generation save Veddartha diablerist, and every single one of them except for Mithras managed to perfectly cover it up?

Suffice it to say, I believe the former is far more likely. I think what happened is that Ventru was unable to keep his siblings in line within the second city. Ventru would not enjoy the same power advantage most modern Princes enjoy over their subjects. Every Antediluvian is of roughly similar power. The Jyhad Jyhads, and the Second City falls apart. Ventru fades from the historical record and starts working through 4th generation vampires that conveniently pop up wherever and whenever a civilization is starting to form.

So why then is Ventru staying out of the line of fire? Why has the progenitor of the Clan of Kings never sought to directly exert control ever again? Simple. You can't rule the world if it's a smoldering crater. Multiple other Antediluvians have deranged world ending end-goals. Lasombra, Tzimisce, Cappadocius, probably Set too. The Ventrue Antediluvian has found himself in the same position most Ventrue Princes do, just on a much larger scale. He can't expand his power any further, because he's constantly having to put out fires to maintain his position. Ventru outsources the duty of rulership to his childer, and is stuck in an endless deadlock in countering his siblings' mad ambitions. Not only does it have the first Ventrue mirror the common Ventrue dilemma, but it also gives you a deep lore reason to keep pushing Gehenna back, without rendering it a total nothingburger.

>>96903342
>He was expecting brujah & toreador level theater kid power fantasies which is what the other players were doing, not scheming political manipulating cult leaders trying to become overpowered.
Funnily, this is how neonates are canonically in WoD. It's the short-sited ones indulging in power fantasies that become pawns or die quickly, but the manipulative schemers that know how to accumulate power by abusing the system that are the ones that actually get welcomed into the ranks of elders.

Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky
Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes all the same
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same
And the people in the houses
All went to the university
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same
And there's doctors and lawyers
And business executives
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same
And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university
Where they are put in boxes
And they come out all the same
And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same
There's a pink one and a green one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

>>96903367
>>96903371
Makes perfect sense. This is now my headcanon. Thanks, Anon.

>>96903371
>>96903367
This is pretty close to what I think to. But add in >>96903272 he's the type to set up a power structure to rule the shadowy rulers of a shadowy power structure that rules the normies

>>96903413
I like this song, but man did hippies really fuck over the god damn world so fucking bad. Nothing wrong with a little ticky-tacky, the world is a whole lot worse once we started celebrating the individual

>>96903461
Don’t give yourselves to these unnatural men - machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men!

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

>>96903493
Ohio men built machines of wonder.
These machines allowed us to fly
These machines allowed another
ohioan to fly beyond the sky.
Greater still the buckeyes rose
to tread the moon I suppose
it is not the cogs that crush & grind
but the demons that hide behind
So not demean the houses on the hill
For the houses are not the ones who kill
Each man was equal, each man the same
Each man had fair chance to play the game
Til demons came & whispered lies
To divide the men upon the hill
To tear them down to feed the kiln
"How dare he seem just like me!
I must destroy myself to be
Even more special & unique!
I must butcher myseld in such a pique
A Society who says I'm not
A special little colored dot
Under the thumb of the demon's ire
I have no sons, I denounce my sire
All for my own fear of conformity
I will break all my forebears society!"

>>96897606
Check Werewolf: the Dark Ages for some information. the tl;dr is that the Shadow Lords and Silver Fangs split leadership on the W:tA side, and that the Bone Gnawers are very protective of the Ashkenazim of the country.

>>96903350
Everyone but the Valkyrie can't accept getting dommed. Makes sense with those woofs

Is it a bad idea to pick a Caitiff for the first session?

>>96903624
How new is the ST? Are you doing this to do an interesting idea or is it because of the power selection? It's not bad but unless you're kinda entering a powder keg you're gonna not be liked, at least initially. Or ever. You're only kinda above thin-bloods in respect until you earn respect and power.
Maybe if it's Cairo it might be different, only a little though. Depends on if Cairo changed a lot between v20 and v5

>>96903624
Nah. Caitiff are the Clan of Caine. The other clans hate & fear the Caitiff because they alone are unsullied by weakness, & they alone have the power to create new Disiplines & explore the power within the blood of the First.

please don't bully my Mr. Harpy

>>96903570
Servants of the All-High will All-Die.

>>96903624
Taking it up the ass is relatively normal now, so feel free to go ahead.

>>96903628
I don't actually know if the ST is experienced, but I have a feeling they are. The chronicle is intended toward newer players, and so I want to start with a character who is... low in the power ranking, just as my understanding of the game is.
I plan to start with Auspex + Necromancy, and play as a kind of forensic detective turned supernatural detective who can tell a lot from what happened at a crime scene. It would be good to solve mysteries, and maybe Auspex could help with other things, I dunno.
It's not in Cairo.
>>96903644
>>96903665
I'm getting mixed messages here...

>>96903678
Caitiff'll be low in social power, there's no doubt. Societal, in regards to camarilla, it's:
cammie clans>>>>>independents>sabbat=ministry>>>caitiff>>>>thin-bloods>>>power gap>ghouls and revenants.
That's like in a global sense, it might be different locally. Not a bad character idea. If you're more married to the character ideas than clan might I suggest looking at the Giovanni/Hecata? You could maybe drum up a branch line that has auspex and necromancy if you're not married to caitiff

So, are we ready to split Vampire into its own general yet?

>>96903714
No. Ask again at christmas

>>96903678
Caitiff are seen as embarrassments & second class citizens in the Camarilla. Even the Panders are just used as fodder so don't think you'll get any respect outside the Cam either. Even though the Caitiff are arguably the strongest "clan" & have no weakness & can make their own Disciplines, the Cam fuckingnhates them & treats them like trash. Be ready to be at minimum heckled by every harpy in Elysium. The best thing to do is just lie. Lie your ass off. Pretend you're a bloodline or from a clan that doesn't have much if any presence in the city. Take one or two of the good Disciplines at character gen & try to justify it. Necromancy is decent, Aupex is nice & will help but maybe think about Dominate or another one that will help in social situations because you'll want to make sure you can keep your identity from leaking until you're powerful enough to stand on merit. If you go Necromancy maybe claim to be a Cappy bloodline as long as the wops don't want to kill you for it.

This is the Jerma985 Halloween 2025 stream where he's all dressed up as a vampire called Count Jercula to play the old Sega CD games. He starts by popping out of a homemade coffin, acting like he woke up after ten thousand years. The whole thing is mostly him yelling at his chat, and he keeps trying to ban everyone for like a decade. Just Jerma doing a ridiculous, high effort costume bit while barely playing a game and cracking up the whole time and he looks amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AawzIkGKNSI

>>96903701
Ooh or go Harbinger. Harbingers are great

Are Caitiff bugs?

Is it realistic to play a young Brujah who isn't angry?

>>96903826
No. Why would you think that?

>>96903836
Yes. Could've been a joke embrace, the little nerd that always hung around the 'bad kids' for protection. You'd grapple with the compulsion and maybe toy with the embrace doing something to their personality but the way their anger happens could be very flash in the pan. Quick, draining, and not worth it if they can help it.

>>96903836
Yes, but it's a Clan bane, so it's a predisposition to hulk rage in the heat of the moment. It's not up to your actual personality as much as it is a spiritual curse in your very blood. You could be a very chill and mellow person before the embrace but after now as a kindred you have the beast plus the curse of your blood bane drawing it out. It isn't merely a personality flaw it's literally supernatural. You can still resist it, of course. Take merits like Code of Honor that will help you chill out when it matters. Raise your virtues like self control and boost your willpower so you can force yourself to hold back when the dice fail you. Alternatively, look into True Brujah which are emotionless as their bane for a complete opposite flavor. I'm assuming you don't want a Trujah so just build your Brujah like normal.

>>96903841
Some Anon posted earlier that there was lore the Caitiff transformed into insectoids/bugs if they lived long enough.

>>96903857
And you believed him?

>>96903867
That's why I was asking. I'm not a lore expert. Which 1 page sidebar mentioned this out of the 100 WoD books out there?

>>96903857
In the outcast book there is a Caitiff who has a unique discipline relating to being insectoid, but that's not all caitiff. Not by a long shot

>>96903857
I know what you're talking about, but that's not really accurate.

It's from an oWoD book all about fleshing out Caitiff and their equivalents in other splats. The Caitiff section largely follows the POV of a guy who should've been a Ventrue, but came out Caitiff. He's perpetually bitter about being cucked out of the ruling vamp's club, and has turned into something of a Caitiff supremacist as a cope. He shares stories of his struggles to survive unlife as a Caitiff and later in the narrative, one thing the book introduces and plays with is that on occasion, Caitiff can create entirely new disciplines whole cloth. Later, a Tremere captures him for experimentation. Said Tremere returns to find our Caitiff completely gone, with only an insect-like cocoon left in the room they were holding him in. All the Tremere's ghouls are dead, some look like they were digested with acid, others scythed to pieces, all bear the signs of being attacked by a giant insect. The obvious assumption being our POV Caitiff had developed some sort of fucked up insect Protean on his own, and used it to escape.

>>96903846
>>96903851
Word. Thanks, I was thinking the same thing but it felt odd to play so harshly against type. What about a Brujah who isn’t an activist, or a rebel?

I ask this really because I want to play a sort of Everyman. All the other clans require some characteristics I don’t picture for this guy. He’s not a traveler or an outdoorsman, he’s not particularly successful, nor is he rebellious, he’s certainly not artsy or overly refined. Brujah seemed like a good fit because they don’t discriminate. But it feels like he’d be way out of his element there. There’s always Caitiff but I’ve never liked that route.

>>96903882
>>96903876
Ok, thanks for the info. That is actually really cool. Much appreciated!

Honestly, insect caitiff sounds fun, that's why I was asking.

>>96903887
That could be. I think outside of thin-bloods and caitiff, Brujah are nebulous enough that their culture gives credence to them being 'raised' by their peers. Sure bane alongside compulsion play a part, but /who/ gets embraced and why and for what end tends ti shunt them towards rowdy shit heads. Unless the ST or author wants to make a point. So a brujah that has a pretty reliable (non-brujah) coterie from fledgling into neonate years could help broaden their views and responses without devolving into the cyclical brujah stuff.
A focus on presence and celerity might allow for an interesting angle if you got another potence user or general combatant in the group.

>>96903887
Have you considered he could be a Trujah who's accidentally in with some Brujah? There's not much in the way of everyman outside of just playing Ventrue, Torries, & Brujah as less retarded

>>96903911
This was my initial thought. But something about it just feels wrong. Making a brujah just to make him as intensely /normal/ feels a bit odd to me. This character is meant to be someone who was kind in life and does his best to be kind in unlife, keeping his head low and trying to hold onto his humanity. Maybe Brujah isn’t the best choice after all, but it’s what my table recommended.

>>96903919
I hadn’t considered this, but I thought the Trujah were more akin to the Ventrue. Prestigious and haughty. It doesn’t suit him well either. I could sort of see this character as a salubri. He was a nurse in life, clinging to the humanity he once had, trying to be a good person in unlike but constantly forced into lose/lose situations. But the salubri are so intensely rare and I planned for him to be fairly young, and from what I understand the few Salubri still around aren’t embracing anyone new.

Sorry, I got a bit sidetracked. But I’m really struggling to make someone so conflicted.

I summon the Demon fans.

>>96903971
There's new salubri & yeah if you're going high humanity healer, you should just roll salubri. Salubri should be perfect for you

As for the Trujah, they're just sort of emo & pretentious. They're poem reading commies as apposed to smash windows commies

>>96903982
Were both here already bro.

>>96903971
Did he do sports as a kid or in high school? Like the other anon suggested, you could shape how he reacts to frenzy and the various mood swings through merits and stuff.
Him being kind in life, especially if you can see him standing his ground in defense of something despite the end result, is pretty on point with one of the main threads of being a brujah. The conflict comes from how his bane and compulsion may eventually making him stop caring about causes behind conflicts. Speaking of which; you don't need to make them particularly contradictory or conflict heavy from the get go. That's kinda why you're playing the character, they're gonna get into conflicts that'll shape them further than what you originally thought out.

How new to vampirism is this character? Within their first century?

>>96903184
He dipped when he realized what kind of undead herd of cats Caine dropped on him.
I don't blame him because if he did, he made the most sensible choice. Faked his death and lived his unlike for thousands of years.

>>96903991
Salubri did always appeal to me. I just don’t really know much about V5. They’re playable as normal now? From what I remember they were basically unicorns in the last edition. Playing one would be perfect.

>>96903998
Yeah, he’s an active person, and he’s heavily principled. This is why I was recommended Brujah by my table. And I do like the idea of him slowly losing more and more of himself as time goes on. More jaded for sure. But I could never see him throwing a brick through a Cammy window just for the hell of it.

I initially planned for him to be a fledgling but that seems like it may be a big ask and a bit snowflake-y for my table. Definitely in his first century though.

>>96903971
Trujah don't have the same sort of imperious rulership stuff the Ventrue have. They are thumb their nose elitists though, but about intellectual matters rather than social status.

They're actually better at doing the whole "warrior philosopher" thing than the Brujah, because their curse is to be icy and aloof, which has its own drawbacks, but can let them be more objective.

>>96904013
V5. Ew nevermind

>>96904030
No, we’re playing the older edition, I just thought you were saying the salubri were changed in V5 lore

I'm just now getting into the tabletop, quick question I had from beating vtm as it relates to the game. It seemed like a big deal that Phyre was 400 years old, how long do most vampires actually live for?

>>96904013
>they were basically unicorns in the last edition
They are still unicorns.
>Fledgling
I mean I'd argue that's more a facet of what kinda chronicle you and your group plan on playing. Cause having a group of fledglings starting a chronicle probably isn't that out of the norm. In any case, he's a neonate. Is he a 'young' neonate a few decades old or is he closer to the big 100? Cause he sounds kinda young from how you describe him. Like his mortal family is still alive type young. That sort of young is on their way to being jaded but they're still full of human optimism.
>I could never se him throwing a brick through a Cammy window just for the hell of it
Okay, so he's a more principaled brujah than the normal punk. Those tend to end up being leaders than a chest-beater. Perhaps he's getting a rep for being something of a mediator, a role he stumbled into because he's either listened to or the other clans know he's more principaled then his kin.
>snowflake-y
I mean that's pretty much every PC since wider WoD tends to have npc being fully stupid every chance they get so don't worry about it. Again your guy sounds like he's on the way to being a leader, the type that say they don't wanna be. Do you think those'll throw bricks through windows for the hell of it?

>>96904039
There's some from early egyptian history. Montano is around eight thousand years old. Helen of Troy is still alive. You're also getting into vampire age classification when you get that deep and I know the game doesn't really touch on it but 300 years of age is a "young" elder vampire. All elders tend to be 250/300yo and up in terms of age. Maybe slightly less but above 250, at least, for an american elder.
There's a case that Phyre is still in their young elder phase since they were torpored for a century

>>96904043
When I imagine this character I see him as being embraced about 15 years ago at most, so he’s definitely a neonate like you said. Old enough to understand how the vampire society operates as a whole and to have witnessed some conflict, but young enough to cling to his humanity and try not to give in to the beast.

I definitely do imagine him as a mediator. Maybe someone who helps other Brujah neonates who’ve been abandoned by their sires. He might be a sort of leader to them. Likely just from circumstance and being level-headed, trying to protect them in their early nights. I don’t see him opposing the camarilla, he probably recognizes the need for structure but wants no part of the politics. And fair enough, I suppose most PCs are the real movers and shakers. And as far as the bricks, I don’t think he’ll ever throw any. I think he just wants to survive and help those around him to survive. I’d say he’s a passive participant in the camarilla society and just keeps his head down.

>>96904068
Sounds like you got a solid grasp on a decent social brujah. Perhaps he'll become aware and more mindful of his Presence usage but the idea that new Brujah may seek him out as a confidant/begrudging leader is great. You could maybe make a joke about how he was a summer camp counselor when he was younger.

>>96903887
By Everyman do you plan on this guy being the face or heart of the group? A symbol of human grit?

A Ventrue could still embrace him as a reward for some forgotten deed or as some kind of Trading Places experiment. He could have connections to a lodge or trade union or company or political organization that the Ventrue found convenient yet needed more capability than a ghoul.
A Nosferatu could embrace him because of his closeness to the nitty gritty of things, although that can damage the character concept if you're trying to be a pointman or a face.
You character could have been a Toreador's lover or prey, even a one night stand that randomly impressed or inspired them. Maybe he did sculpture welding or 3D modelling/printing at a trade school, or maybe he has a way of writing that has found favor like a number of other Everymen like Mark Twain or Benjamin Franklin. Maybe he was just built right that evening.
Brujah are warriors and thugs but they also have a history of being inspiring leaders (philosopher kings) if you're going for the face. Even if your character doesn't try to get angry at people or institutions maybe he had a bad temper at his craft or his vehicles or tools, and vampirism now exacerbates that to people.
Malkavian could be a spite embrace like Nosferatu and maybe your character would have delusions of mediocrity or compulsions relating to trying harder because he can perceive himself as good enough.

>>96904039
A majority don't make it past a year, but vampire societies don't tend to count them as ever being members.

>>96904039
Most vampires?
I would guess half die in their first year. Of course this is because Sabbat screws the scales a bit but even in Camarilla I would guess a decade.
Those who survive a decade would be halved every century until like their 400s and then they will survive a lot longer since they are powerful enough that realistically they can survive most things if they are not stupid.

But if you are asking about the upper limits? They are ageless and Antediluvians are like 15.000+ years old. (And that's just pure VTM sources) Vasilisa is his child and it is also at least 14.000 years old.

>>96903882
There was also another story in the Outcasts book about a Caitiff who moved into the woods and became some kind of slug creature.

How common is Telekinesis as used by Phyre in VtMB2 to carry guns? Exclusive to Tremeres?

>>96904332
living the life

>>96904356
yeah that's movement of the mind which is a common tremere path it however also exists a Dur-An-Ki (mostly assamite sorcery/ middle eastern sorcery) path, but neither Akhu(setite sorcery) nor Sadhana(indian sorcery) have it

so common enough path in the most common blood sorcery schools but limited to them

>>96903565
I did not know Autumn people could write poetry. Truly a disgusting example.

>>96902029
Other WoD splats might have more "technical freedom," but the reality is that every chronicle is going to shoehorn the players into one of a few factions.

Sure, technically a vampire can do whatever they want with their unlife and have the absolute freedom to do whatever, but realistically, most chronicles are going to force that character into the Camarilla or the Anarchs or the Sabbat. It's three times the diversity that Werewolf the Apocalypse has but unless you're playing a sandbox chronicle, the central faction of the chronicle is going to be decided from the start.

So yes, you have to play a Garou Nation werewolf in most Werewolf games, but you have to play a Camarilla vampire in most Vampire games. If you don't like the premise of Werewolf, that's fine, but in practice, most other World of Darkness games are just as prohibitive.

>>96904039
I'd always held that, either Requiem or Masquerade, the first decade or so is the trial by fire for a new Kindred. If they can survive that they have true potential to last, but could still get ganked by some random bullshit.
Them if they can survive their first 50 years since the Embrance than they have truly what it takes to become an elder

>>96904666
nice numbers and sounds resonable i would probably add that the first few nights are also a miles stone that a lot of licks fail at

>>96904356
IIRC the V20 version say you can't do that but I'm pretty sure most would handwave that. As far as rarity goes it's probably the third most common path because of the sheer utility of it, so like 1 in 50 Thaumaturges should know it as their second path.

What books do I need to run a Werewolf game across Britain?

>>96904013
>They’re playable as normal now?
Not really, they are still in the same position as before where playing them basically begs the character to have a reason to stay. That and their powers and weakness are even shittier ruleswise.

>>96904038
they are now hunted by all kindred as their clan weakness makes them smell yummy to kindred because the writing team at the time wanted the salubri archetype be "kindred who are hunted" instead of "the clan the tremere destroyed"

>Additionally, the third eye that Saulot opened while on one of his many journeys passes down through the bloodline every time a Salubri Embraces. This third eye is not always recognizably human in origin, and rumors persist of vertical, serpentine pupils or even worm-like eyespots. While this third
eye can be physically covered, such as with a headscarf or hood, it is always present, and no supernatural power can obscure it except those that hide the entire Salubri. Any time a Salubri activates a Discipline power, the third eye weeps vitae, its intensity correlating to the level of the Discipline being used, from welling up to a torrential flow. The blood flow from the third eye triggers a Hunger Frenzy test from nearby vampires with Hunger 4 or more.

>https://web.archive.org/web/20210331151051/https://www.worldofdarkness.com/news/development-blog-defining-clans?utm_source=crm&utm_medium=email&utm_content=devdiaryCTA1&utm_campaign=wod_wod_20210331_dd
>For example, "the vampire as rebel" suggests conflict with "the vampire as aristocrat," which implies a long and fraught history between the Brujah and the Ventrue. But Clan Brujah is not defined by its relationship to the Ventrue. And "the vampire as fugitive" is the essential experience for the Salubri, not "the clan that the Tremere destroyed to usurp their own vampirism."
you don't know me but i hope you can imagine me rolling my eyes

>>96904846
The biggest issue here for me, discovering this, is the transition from vampires defined as social groups to vampires defined as archetypes (stereotypes even). It's an impoverishment on all levels, at this point barely better than the "vampires as D&D classes" of early editions.

>>96904846
I understand where they were coming from but it really, really feels like they wanted to show horn the clan into a single playstyle alongside the Caitiff.

>>96904846
>For example, "the vampire as rebel" suggests conflict with "the vampire as aristocrat," which implies a long and fraught history between the Brujah and the Ventrue. But Clan Brujah is not defined by its relationship to the Ventrue. And "the vampire as fugitive" is the essential experience for the Salubri, not "the clan that the Tremere destroyed to usurp their own vampirism."
i don't think a single thing in this statement should be right

brujah as a clan are defined in a way by how they never recoved from carthage and the ventrue backed roman destruction of it and their fall from grace into unfocused thugs because of how they never managed to move past this and the salubi always used be "the clan that the Tremere destroyed to usurp their own vampirism." since their creation in the first edition

vtm is in a large part interesting because of it's history so much so that they made historical settings for them (dark age, victorian) and the fans decided that they wanted more of them (classical age, living gods) and several chronicles that spend centuries of said history and showed major events

>>96904891
i been feeling that since they added clan compulsions for example in v5 brujah have to rebel (if the compulsion kicks in) against whatever they see as the "status quo" regardless of how just or unjust that status quo is even if they are favored by it

tremere have to be perfectionists, ventrue have to rule over peole and hecate have to be morbid

>>96904873
A lot of V5, despite claiming to give the clans more nuance, instead just forces them to act more archetypal, like Clan Compulsions literally force characters to act according to their stereotypes.
Which is garbage, because now instead of the stereotypes of the sociopathic Ventrue and thug Brujah and such don't arise naturally from a clan's tendency to embrace particular people, their discipline spread encouraging certain types of behavior and their banes guiding their actions, it instead just goes 'eh, you're doing this now'.
It's absolute garbage. They took the Ravnos flaw out because they didn't want a clan to be defined by a stereotype, then instead made EVERY clan forced to act according to their stereotype while changing the Ravnos flaw to 'please die, please die, please die, we don't want to write you'

>>96904813
That's partly because all unique disciplines fucckng suck in v5.
The lasombra clan discipline sucks, the tzimisce clan discipline sucks, the tremere clan discipline sucks.
Dominate is still an instant "I win" button though, can't mess with the social disciplines the LARPers love

>>96904911
>>96904945
>Clan Compulsions
holy fuck what's this and who thought this was a good idea and why?

>>96902676
>You need to pursue Clarification
Any tips? I already own a bunch of Shinzui stuff, I even bought some of their stock but I have a feeling I could do more.

i'm checking out the few vtm comics on readcomicsonline.

is there any good wod comics/graphic novels? starting off with some V5 cringe published in 2020 called Winter's Teeth information. A few from the 01 that are like single issue clan comics. Shit even the WoD novels whats worth reading i've only read gehenna: the final nights which was bretty good with beckett doing beckett things like making a "new friend" traveling with for a year.

>>96904565
My words were honest, genuine
Not borrowed, stolen, eglantine
Plucked & purchased to adorn a hedge
My prose & rhythm have a purposeful edge.
You call me an Autumn person, but I'm in full bloom,
Your colors are basic, you even borrow your hue
So don't think that your glamour can cover your stammer
You have nothing your own
You have nothing you've grown
My words cut to the bone
Through my light you've been shown
Reap the seeds that you've sewn

Stop

Cause you're feeling the winter of my discontent
You struggle & stumble to make your content
A pretentious motley of garish excess
Seeking only glitter & sparkles is what you obsess
So you call me banal morning, & beat your chest
Here I'm creating my words cause I am the best
Look at your imitation estatz false mess!

Stop

Suck my banality
This is fatality
Maybe you'll finality
Ya know no match for me
Oberon comes for thee!

>>96903565
Autum people pride world wide, total winter now!

>>96904899
V5 is less interested in having a wide, inter-connected world full of lots of little things that are tied to each other, and more interested in a world of vibes and feelings where things are loosely defined and knowledge isn't required to enjoy things.

Hence all of the V5 clans aren't elaborate social factions with extensive histories and connections to each other, they're primarily just archetypes, vaguely defined different types of vampire. For example, the defining factors of the Tzimisce are no longer their Eastern European background, nor their prior importance to the Sabbat, nor their hatred for the Tremere, nor even the Vicissitude discipline which is 90% of the reason why people give a shit about the Tzimisce. No, V5 Tzimisce are just "vampires as tyrants," because players shouldn't have to know lore, players should just be able to play things according to vibes and feelings and archetypes.
>>96905011
V5 stuff. If a vampire has accumulated a lot of hunger dice and rolls a messy critical or bestial failure because of them, they suffer a negative consequence of the ST's choice. One of the potential consequences that an ST can choose is that the vampire could be compelled to behave according to its clan's archetype. In most cases, until the compulsion is satisfied, the vampire subtracts two dice from every dice pool unrelated to satisfying the compulsion. For some clans this only lasts a scene, for other clans it's permanent until the compulsion's satisfied.

>>96905040
Ideally you’d find a job with us, but we’re nowhere near as omnipresent as Pentex (yet). But you can always get started with understanding the Mother’s OneSong by adhering to strict routines. Stick VERY CLOSE (We mean it, tolerate no deviations) to them and the Song will slowly start to become audible

>>96904384
The outcast book did try to push the idea that caitiff are somehow unstable & prone to kind of devolving/mutating into Inhuman things.

>>96905132
Thanks! Gonna see if I can get hired at my local branch. I'd tell you to wish me luck but that's just a silly superstition and we have no need for those.

>>96905146
Indeed, the Weaver always finds a purpose for those who seek unity in the OneSong

are we a wyrm or weaver board?

>>96905203
well we did have that one anon on here who admitted to being a fomori, but now we also seem to have a weaver salesmen

>>96905203
We have everyone
Wyrm
>Pentex exec giving "business" advice
>Endron office worker
>Other Pentex employee
Weaver
>Shinzui recruiter
>Potential weaver drone
>Technocrats
Gaia
>Red talon looking for a mage gf
>Unnamed woof calling out the glass walkers

>>96905203
yes

>>96905203
canonically a nephanti board

>>96905203
This is a Tremere board. Just give it time, once enough of us know the Skindancer rite, we will usurp the lupines too.

>>96905281
4chan is love 4chan is life, begone vile evil there are no nephanti here.

>>96905297
would that work? like could a embraced kinfolk turn into a reverse abormination using the rite?

>>96905301
>void is love suffering is life
evil is like totally subjective, anon!

>>96905125
>>96904565
You know writing poems is fun, but the more I hear "Autumn People" the more I want to adapt the song "Common People" (the William Shatner version.

>You'll never live like Autumn People
>You'll never do what ever Autumn People do
>Never fail like Autumn People
>You'll never watch your life slide out of view
>And then dance, and drink, and screw
>Because there's nothing else to do

>>96905131
>V5 Tzimisce are just "vampires as tyrants,"
Isn't that Ventrue and Lasombra's thing, though? That they're always the ones at the top as Princes?

>>96905379
The og high clans have always been Lasombra, Tzimisce, and Ventrue

>>96905303
There's no rule against it, & since the magic is grounded to the skin itself You shouldn't have the disadvantages of being an Abomination. 1st Edition Tremere had a ritual to do the same thing basically. With Spirit Manipulation, you can theoretically bully a spirit into teaching you how to do it, then you just need pelts. Maybe make a deal with the Lupines to give them a bunch of Talens you print with Spirit Manipulation, In exchange for five pelts or something. Make it seem like a honorable thing, or appeal to their masochistic martyrdom. If worse comes to worse just (carefully) hunt some BSDs. I've already shared some strategies for dealing with the savages. You should be able to use Spirit Manipulation to learn Gifts & make Fetishes too. A gnosis bag will be useful, as well as Mirrorshades. If you go Halflife like I did you can now hide in the umbra as well as the shadowlands fairly easily. Just be careful, storytellers will have a hard time knowing what to do with you

>>96905379
V5 Tzimisce are not Tzimisce they are just vampires as greedy tyrants with a slight dragon theme

they even gave them dominate to try to make this very shallow retcon work

>>96905418
lulz so no more cool magic or turning ottomans into ottomans. Why the fuck do people even play V5

>>96905470
>Why the fuck do people even play V5
"Oh, hey, look, I heard Vampire the Masquerade is a cool game, and here it is at Games by James!"

>>96905379
V5 Tzimisce are absolutely fixated on owning things and they see people as things too. Ventrue want to rule over people as people are, Lasombra want to be on top of the food chain and the best at whatever they do, Tzimisce want to hoard everyone and everything. There's a lot of overlap, so Paradox really doubled down hard on the possession thing for Tzimisce and the greedy dragon metaphor.

>>96850444

:(

>>96901775
That's a common element of vampires in fiction to account for how they still act like eternal teenagers or eternal psychos. It's not a universal, though. It's especially a theme in settings like Twilight, where embracing a child is basically creating a monster that won't ever calm down / stop acting like a predatory child.

>>96905470
>lulz so no more cool magic or turning ottomans into ottomans.
Vicissitude still exists in V5, it's just an amalgam of Protean and Dominate now, and borderline useless mechanically.

>>96905297
>Tremere
You cucked yourself out of real magic, you'll cuck yourself out of shapeshifting.

>>96905713
>>96905713
>>96905713

>>96904791
The Core book of your choosing and that's about it. There's a Dark Ages: British Isles book you might want to look at, the Victorian stuff looks at Victorian London but from a Vampire perspective. I don't think either would help with a modern Britain campaign.

>>96905783
Thanks for the help.