Anyone who admits to flying business class for non-business should be banned from posting.
>Let me guess, you're poor
IDK, kind of? I just don't want to double my trip price for a slightly nicer flight. It's toxic to say $5k is a trivial amount of money and anyone who says this should be banned.

i dont need all the pomp, just a little bit of breathing room

>>2788197
My goto is the aisle seat then I can slouch in the aisle and even get up and stretch in the areas near the restrooms. Normies seethe when they see the stretching I do. You can basically do a yoga session and the flight attendants won't care.

>>2788194 (OP)
there's already one thread where seething poorfags can demonstrate their jealousy. try not to shit up the board as much as you shit up the real world eh

You guys really pay 11x the market rate for a 6hr flight? no wonder you wage your entire adulthood. you can't save a penny doing that

>>2788251

>>2788194 (OP)
If you're rich, wouldn't you have one of those cards that gets you all sorts of travel benefits? It's doubtful anyone is paying the face-value ticket price for a business class seat.
>should be banned
You already said that.

>>2788257
What fucking card gets you business class seating? Lounge access is one thing because the value is roughly $30 but bussiness class is many times more costly than that. puzzles me as to what you all do for a living that you're so incredibly stupid with $500k or higher incomes. some kind of oil work?

Is it just one angry poorfag who keeps seething in the business class thread and even made his own thread?

>>2788315
I have 3 threads. Yes I'm seething but it's because you keep advertising usless shit. I don't know if you're getting paid or what but I'm tired of it!

>>2788198
>My goto is the aisle seat then I can slouch in the aisle and even get up and stretch in the areas near the restrooms. Normies seethe when they see the stretching I do. You can basically do a yoga session and the flight attendants won't care.
90% of aisle seats have the secret button to lift up the arm rest too. only some older easyjets haven't had it but half did

>>2788194 (OP)
that's a stupid thread
everyone knows that it's expensive

yes, business class is not worth it if you could barely afford it
yes, business class is absolutely worth if the 3k extra don't hurt you (5k seems excessive on almost every route)

also
1) many people buy those flights with miles not cash
2) /trv/ inherently attracts more affluent people, deal with it - some of us have jobs and work for 10y+, this is NOT /r9k/ if you're a neet go back to your containment space

>>2788336
and what I'm telling you is that if burning $3k doesn't hurt you and you work for a living then you're retarded. Deal with it. You're mentally broken from capitalist society and are functioning at retardation levels.

>>2788194 (OP)
>seething & fuming so much he has to start another thread
actually laughably pathetic

>>2788361
lol you got me

>>2788357
>oh no, I have to work a day more to afford my comfy flight, how awful
not everyone hates their job anon

>>2788393
good goy

>>2788336
nearly nobody on 4chan is "affluent" there certainly is a lot of larping faggots however who try to cover up insecurities with something theyll never have to prove.
t. somebody who has grown up around affluent people.

if you have to fly economy, you can`t afford to travel in the first place.

>>2788251
Imagine you have, say, 2,000,000 in the bank. Not because you worked hard, but you just inherited it or something.

You decide to buy a first class ticket for a flight that costs 2,000 dollars. Exorbitant, right? In many ways yes, and it is objectively a bad deal, however, this is the equivalent of someone with 2,000 dollars in the bank spending 20 dollars.

If you had 2,000 dollars in the bank and spent 20, would you really care?

>>2788194 (OP)
I have fear of sitting right next to a stranger rubbing thighs for 12 hours man. I'm going to Germany on a cruise next year so I don't have to do that rofl

>>2790983
Yes. If you have $2000 in the bank, you shouldn't throw away $20 on eating a fancy burger that you can make at home for $5. Good financial habits work regardless of your net worth tier. All the same, most people have to work all their lives to consoom for the economy to prosper. If everyone cooked at home, an entire economic sector would collapse. A nationwide collective decision to be overcautious and frugal after the 1929 crash is what plunged America into the Great Depression.

>>2790987
LOL, lay off the estrogen bro, then you'd have wiry man legs instead of fat female thighs.

Best travel tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt. Nothing more annoying than a fidgeter constantly brushing your arm hairs with his shirtsleeve for the entirety of an 11 hour flight.

>>2788251
Dude I get like a $1000 allowance a week from my father when I travel

Okay usually he buys the business class tickets too but when I inherit his company I will pay for my own business class tickets and $1000 is literally chump change to be more comfortable

>>2788251
Most Americans have fully bought into the nigger culture psyop where if you can theoretically afford something and you choose not to, you're a poor loser.

These guys would rightfully shit on a woman who spends $12 every morning for a coffee because "it's only $12, it's not that much" while doing the same thing. No, any given individual expense is not that much, be it for a flight upgrade or a coffee. But the mindset that leads you to buying these things isn't going to stop at a single coffee and the cumulative effect of all those bad decisions absolutely adds up.

$2k for a single flight isn't that much. How many of those flights will you take in your life? Even 100 puts you at $200k. How much more would that $200k have become if you'd been investing it throughout your life instead of wasting it on frivolities? By the end of your life, those occasional couple thousand dollar flight upgrades have cost you millions of dollars.

Basically
>>2790989
>Good financial habits work regardless of your net worth tier.

>>2788221
Kek

>>2788252
flying spirit is just as retarded as buying that premium select upgrade on delta

When people are discussing business class, they are not talking about domestic US or European business class. They are generally talking about US to Europe or US to Asia.

>>2791854
They would need to become hundreds of millions to really provide a step change in my life, which they will not. Why do poorfags seethe so hard and try to use this argument? You could stand in line at a food bank and eat expired beans to save money but you don't do that, do you?

>>2788194 (OP)
>I just don't want to double my trip price for a slightly nicer flight
It's like 4x-5x the price. It's pretty insane. What gets me is shit like Economy "premium" for 2x the price and you get jack shit from it really.

>>2788194 (OP)
I fly business class by churning credit card bonuses, so I can act all smug and superior to the poors in coach as well as the suckers who pay cash prices.

>>2793366
Any tips for churning as an unemployed man with no bills?

>>2788194 (OP)
>Posted it again award
>>2793366
This is the only time I've flown biz and premium economy. Not sure about other airline groups but for me it's far more worthwhile to pay for the economy seat and upgrade in points. Did 24 hours flying business from Sydney to London for about $1000 USD. Solid deal.
Had the opportunity to take it for work before but it's a flat travel budget and we all opted for better hotel suites/restaurants instead. No regrets at all.

>>2793384
>Any tips for churning as an unemployed man with no bills?
kek

playing credit cards only works well if you spend 50k/year anyway
then might as well take the ~200k points and get a few upgrades

even better if you pay a lot that your employer reimburses later

>>2793504
What card gets you 4 points per buck?

>>2793518
>What card gets you 4 points per buck?
i spend most of my money in Germany, so your experience might differ

>amex turbo
1,5 points per €
>payback
1 point per €
>payback coupons and transfers
for fuel it's ~8-15x points, for food it's ~2-40x points and some shops have bonuses as well
and there are transfer bonuses every now and then, like +25% miles for transferring from payback to miles&more

in a typical year I get about ~500k points/miles with a ~100k€ spend (well combined from wife and me)

I just came back from Japan. Economy both ways, 10 hours each flight. Holy shit business is worth it. Economy kills you. Kills your mood, makes you tired both physically and mentally. Fuck i hate being poor

>>2793384
In europe it's not that great anyway as they closed all the loopholes or require joining hellish programs like payback.

>>2793504
If you can get rent and bills on it not that hard to do.
I was getting points in a sharehouse at university collecting all the cash and paying the rent for us all, drunkenly mentioned it after 2 years about how good it was and they all got pissed off at me haha.

>>2793518
It's all about the sign up bonuses, at least in the US. For instance, a good offer on a chase business card might be 100-120k points after $8k in spend. Until recently, there did not appear to be any upper limit on how many business cards they'd approve you for, only on total credit limit. So you can imagine this can be quite lucrative.

>>2793384
If you have a decent amount of cash and good credit, look into buying groups.

>>2793532
>or require joining hellish programs like payback
what's the problem with payback?
instead of the credit card company buying your data for points, it's now just a separate company...
and payback typically gives more points than CC too

>>2793547
>If you can get rent
where in the world can you pay rent with credit cards??
vendor cost for credit card payment is ALWAYS >1%, more typical 1,5% or even up to 3% for amex

your landlord will just add that fee on your rent
and points won't be able to make up for this

>>2793555
>what's the problem with payback?
Market might, data protection concerns and missing oversight.
It's the same concern I have with Google, a E-ID or ePA. too much data, too much power, available to too many people, possible abuses are endless, weak or non existent data protection, prone to be breached/leaked.
It looks like the same but it isn't the same.

>buy business class ticket for 15 hour flight using miles i earned from flying
>settle in to an enjoyable and comfortable flight
>take a nice nap, use in-flight entertainment, have a nice complementary drink
>arrive to destination in great mood
>open 4chan to generational seethe from the poorest poster to ever poor

>>2788194 (OP)
I choose the cheapest flight because it supports my spartan lifestyle.

>>2793555
Australia mate, no fees for it, except for amex but amex always has fees on everything.
Beem through bpay, works a charm

>>2793384
I use a DBS travel card, and since I don't live in Singapore, all spend is overseas spend, and I get 3.6 miles (Singapore Airlines) for every $SGD I spend. It works out quite well.

>>2793705
>using miles
so you didn't buy it, you redeemed it. Completely not what OP was getting at.

>>2788357
Okay dumb fellow if you’re making 100k a year 3k for a vacation flight isn’t anything that’s gonna hurt you. Anyone making that much is already investing so they’re going to keep winning and you will keep seething. Maybe get a real job?

If you can afford to pay for business/first out of pocket then why are you not just flying 135? Seriously, money matters so little to you that you’d light $3,000 worth of it on fire—why not add a zero if you’re so rich?

Now if you’re doing it as some sort of points scheme (these are way more scarce today and all the loopholes seem closed) or someone else is paying by all means. I’m talking about the people lining up and paying retail for premium cabins.

>>2794405
>If you can afford to pay for business/first out of pocket then why are you not just flying 135?
>just pay 20-50x for a flight
kek

>money matters so little to you that you’d light $3,000 worth of it on fire—why not add a zero if you’re so rich?
that's not how money works

I can be able to spend 3k on flight and not feel a difference in my daily life
while I would absolutely do if i'd spend 60k

and there's a huge gap between a 700k/y and a 7mio/y income
you'd need the latter one to comfortable afford charters
but only the first one is achievable in a senior tech position

>>2793384
>wait for cc deal
>like "spend $2000 in 5 mo for 20,000 miles
>sign up
>use/transfer points
>close card (maybe)
>repeat

>>2793530
Try flying drunk next time

>>2795525
>repeat
This is the problematic part.

>>2790983
Yes I would care because that person is fucking retarded to have 2 million in CASH. Like, if it was in a brokerage account doing investments, then I can understand because I'm the same, but in cash? That's a liability, that retard is a financial liability. I don't want met these kinds of retards in my life

>>2793728
Are you retarded? So Visa and MasterCard just do it all for free you think?

Is slamming ass a legitimate business?

>>2788194 (OP)
Nobody flies business class for business

>>2795508
lol cope

My wife and I (MD & pilot respectively) bring in about $700k a year. Once the government gets finished fucking us out of about a third of our income we have a whole new slew of subsequent obligations and bills, all loaded with fees and taxes and little extra charges for milking us like the fat paypigs we are. It’s not a bad thing necessarily—this is your cost of entry for living in an America virtually unchanged since the 1950’s—but it doesn’t leave us with much left over. And we are pretty parsimonious with no new cars, no designer bullshit and, believe me, no premium cabins for when we travel abroad (I am not the kind of pilot that gets a travel benefit).

At the end of the day if we want to live in a NICE area in a decent home and great schools there’s about $80-120k left over. I’m not dropping $3,000 oof that for the privilege of lying down flat and a slightly nicer microwave meal.

>>2788194 (OP)
I get an upgrade to first class frequently for domestic and some international partners. I’ve seen some weird shit in first class. Just last monday some dude fainted and there was a medical emergency. I once sat across a lady who brought 2 toddlers that were a fucking nightmare of crying and screaming and the flight attendants were basically her babysitter. A 20yr old girl brought her huge german shephard to sit with her. (You just know)
I usually meet jewish lawyers and doctors that pay for first class

>>2795724
>Once the government gets finished fucking us out of about a third of our income
I always though the US had lower taxes kek
our HHI is just shy of 700k€ in Germany and income tax is ~31% as well

>if we want to live in a NICE area in a decent home and great schools there’s about $80-120k left over
what!??

after (health) insurances and pension we've got about ~400k left
we barely spend 100k/y on everything except vacation + savings
tbf no kids

and yes I will absolutely pay 3k for 2 nights of sleep
it's not like I do this every day, usually 2-4 long distance trips / year, sometimes a one way flight during
that's ~10k-30k/year on flights between me and my wife

>>2788251
lmaoing at "last to board" as if that's a bad thing

>>2795714
i do. quite regularly. so do most of my colleagues, and so do quite a lot of the people that i meet in business class too.

>>2795724
>makes 3/4s of a million
>still sends their kids to public schools
That's some real you don't love your kids shit m8.

>>2795724
I have a similar HHI and we pull in about $31k a month after maxing all retirement accounts. Not sure how you can be so poor.

>>2788194 (OP)
Almost no one pays full price for business class.

Even those who travel for leisure book the tickets through their business so they can write it off as an expense. I've never done it and I'm never going to, but knowing that almost everyone cheats the system makes me seethe

>>2795901
>>2795943
It’s housing. Our mortgage, home insurance, property tax, HOA and maintenance come out to over $15,000 a month.

>>2795962
If the system is designed so that only cheaters can access it, then it is not unethical to cheat the system.

>>2795925
If you live somewhere nice the school district will also be nice. You should see some of the "public" schools richfags send their kids to.

It makes niggers and peasants seethe so much they tried to bus in kids from next district over but that got shut down for various reasons.

>>2796020
>Our mortgage, home insurance, property tax, HOA and maintenance come out to over $15,000 a month
The only places in America you could possibly find somewhere that expensive to live is Northern Virginia, Northern NJ/the 5 boroughs, or coastal California. I don't feel empathy.

>>2795743
Do you have anymore stories anon?
Could you go into more detail?
I just find 1st class stories to be entertaining.

>be me
>1st class indulgence - LHR to DBX
>Emirates, only 2 other 1st class fliers
>1 meme of arab man with his clearly <18yr sugarbaby
>1 clearly gay 50+ twink
>both sitting adjacent in the middle aisle
>I'm off to the side with a clear view of the shitshow.
>just chillin. Sipping on champers. Chomping on an olive.
>hear shrill squeeling lispy voice hurling slurs. Hear rattling and stirring, like a scuffle is breaking out.
>figured it was the fag losing their shit at the arab with the loli
>mfw that wasn't a loli
>mfw that was the twink's nephew
>mfw that arab was the twink's boss
>close door on cabin seat
>proceed to chuckle to myself.

>>2796074
lol how fucking underage/retarded is this board?

>>2795724
>has 100k of disposable income a year
>can't afford one business class ticket a year
You know this doesn't add up.

>>2796156
even though this is supposed to be a travel board, this is still 4chan. threads like this are a good reminder.

>>2795724
>claims to have high income
>complains about taxes and charges
>claims to be of a highly technical profession
>can't into basic math and finance

Trollin' is a art.

>>2796020
>mortgage, home insurance, property tax, HOA and maintenance come out to over $15,000 a month.
that's a lot of money just for housing
though I can see how it could be worth it with kids

my loan + everything else for my very nice apartment within a good neighborhood in one of Germany's biggest cities is ~6k€
but it's only a 2bd with ~140sqm (~1500sqft), I guess a similar 3 or 4bd would be closer to 15k as well

but then again
if you wouldn't spend that much on housing, you could absolutely and easily do business

>>2795724
If you make this much you should find a tax loop hole and keep some cash. Its what all the rich fags do

>>2796122
Flying is surprisingly uneventful. The whacky stuff happens in first class but not often. Certain flights have higher chances. Miami, vegas, new york. I imagine flights to dubai are filled with whores.

>>2796246
There is no loophole for just your regular old W-2 employees. High earning professionals like doctors are the eternal paypigs of the bloated government, they have no way to circumvent taxes.

>>2796164
It’s not about “can or cannot afford” it’s about using your resources in a way that makes you happy. The whole point all along is that paying out of pocket for a business class ticket is retarded for somebody who is in an income strata where limited means is even a concept.

If you are FU rich enough to not care then just fly private. Like all the actually rich people do. Anyone paying out of pocket for a premium cabin is a LARPer

>>2796266
>in a way that makes you happy
>... is a LARPer
You sound salty anon. Also sounding like someone who has retained a poverty mindset in general. Are you first or second Indian or Asian immigrant in America or Europe by chance?

>>2796266
t. flying coach to SEA

>>2796266
lol this topic is really an endless salt mine isn't it
i'll think about you anon as i sip my champagne waiting for my next flight to take off
actually that's a lie. i probably won't. i'll be too busy making my selections from the dinner menu

>>2796265
Cant doctors set up their own private practice and charge thousands for “consultation? I figured they also get kick backs from big pharma. Its a real jewish profession nowadays.

>>2796335
the malpractice litigation insurance makes this not worth the effort

>>2791854
>Most Americans have fully bought into the nigger culture psyop where if you can theoretically afford something and you choose not to, you're a poor loser.
You spend too much time on this website

>>2796020
>HOA
Lol

>>2795743
>I usually meet jewish lawyers and doctors that pay for first class

I doubt they paid cash. I know a crapload of Jews into credit card churning shenanigans. If you're flexible with your travel dates, it's not awfully hard to find a seat or two in First or Business class. The only catch is there's almost no way you can get an entire family into F or J, so they usually have to break up into multiple flights if they don't mind the hassle

>>2796266
What do you spend your yearly 100k on that you can't afford a business class flight? OF?

>>2796356
>The only catch is there's almost no way you can get an entire family into F or J
just put your kids into economy
they don't care

even better as "unaccompanied minors"
if your kids are somewhat well behaved, flight attendants even enjoy this

my parents did this my whole childhood
my 2 siblings and me always went unaccompanied into economy while my parents were in front in business class (sometimes even another flight)
and we absolutely loved it

but again, we behaved nicely, never fought, mostly quiet and were raised bilingual aka all spoke English well enough to communicate with foreign flight attendants

Interesting how the poors always make it a point to seethe about how others choose to spend their own money

If you are so much more responsible then why don't you just earn more to spend it the way you'd like?

>>2796466
It's about having money not being retarded

>>2796474
You are convincing no-one anon.

>>2796460
This just put the kids as UM into econ and done.

>>2796466
At least I don't have an HOA lmfao

>>2796474
If you’re so smart then why are you so poor?

>>2796460
>flight attendants even enjoy this
lol

>>2788194 (OP)
I support standing class flights. I wont have to see fat people if I do I'll get to laugh at them falling down.

"Cattle class" on Air Arabia is comfy enough. Seats are made for fat Arabs. $367 for 9700 km flight distance with 18 hour layover. Only downside is the inefficient check-in process, 2 hours of standing in various lines, no time to even grab a bite.

>>2793530
>muh economy sucks
Wait so have you actually taken a 10
Hour flight in business class? If so, what was so much better about it?

>>2795724
you suck with money if you only have 80-120k left bythe end of the year.
taxes didnt do this too you

>>2796020
>15k a month
you're just retarded
dont pretend like this is the goverments fault

>>2796954
A few benefits:
>more legroom
>shoulder space
>space to do work on laptop (or gaming if you are so inclined)
>better food
>complimentary water
>access to lounge with shower, bed, food and drink at airport
>priority boarding / check in
>onboard comforts, including allocated climate controls
>etc.

Economy is "sit down and shut up" class.
Business is "are you comfortable?" class
First is "what can we do to make you happy?" class.

>>2795724
>there’s about $80-120k left over.
what the fuck

>>2788194 (OP)
>Anyone who admits to flying business class for non-business should be banned from posting.
I fly business class even on short haul flights, and I love watching you trudge by with your carry-on shit looking all butthurt because you're going to sit near the toilet at the rear of the plane.

Communists, and their enablers, deserve a bullet through their head.

>>2793530
just take sedatives before the flight and sleep through it

For the last five years every domestic/Canada flight I’ve been on is me flying my own 310R (except connections to long-haul international). I leave whenever I want, I deal with zero security, and I interact with zero members of the flying public. FBO’s are also the last bastion of high trust white society left in America. If you have the means to fly business just get your license, buy a little twin and fly yourself around. It’s infinitely better than J.

PHL-SFO on American Airbus A321neo
6 hour flight
Economy: $450
"First" class: $1000
Worth the upgrade?

>>2797584
All relative to your income. I’d do it without a second thought.

>>2797584
Yeah i honestly would do the 'upgrade' since it's a 6 hour flight. Although it looks as though it's on the lower end of an average domestic business class on a narrow body plane.

>>2795724
>My wife
that's when I stopped reading your fanfic

>>2788194 (OP)
>>Let me guess, you're poor
>IDK, kind of? I just don't want to double my trip price for a slightly nicer flight. It's toxic to say $5k is a trivial amount of money and anyone who says this should be banned.

Depends on the flight, right?

If I'm flying across the Ocean from North America to the UK, and I'm on this flight for 12-16 hours, with layovers. you bet your fuckin' ass I'm going to put more money into the flight for a comfortable ride.

I'm 6"7", 300lbs,... generally a big guy, not an out of control fat fuck, but genetics bless me with a brickhouse bod that needs a lot of room.

I flew to Sydney from Vancouver once, going as cheap as possible, zero leg room for 14 hours. I pulled my back muscle and was gimped for 1 of the 2 weeks I was down there for some surfing....

The only other option for me was to go premium or business class, which was expensive, but I was so relaxed and sprawled out, I slept in my seat so comfortable, I was surfing and fucking at full energy once I got off the plane.

So for jealous poorfags who can't compete, shut the fuck up... people who spend that kind of money know what they're doing.

>>2797008
What fucking long haul flight have you been on that doesn't give you water?

>>2798684
British Airways is getting dragged right now for a new policy where they won't provide water bottles.

>>2797008
>more leg/shoulder space
Ok fair
>Laptop space
Seems like the same thing
>Complementary water
Wow pay $4k and get a free water
>Lounge
Who fuckin cares, shower before or pay $30 out of pocket for a lounge
>Priority boarding
Literally meaningless
>Climate controls
Economy has ac too

I dunno man unless you're fussy and very tall or fat (and reasonably wealthy) it seems like business is literally just a bit more room.

>>2798771
>seems like the same thing
It really is not, considering your tray space.

>Literally meaningless
When you are long-hauling trans-continental for a meeting the following day, these features are far from meaningless.

>pay $4k
If you go straight off your wallet. Not if you have miles. I don't think you are using you economy miles effectively basement-chan.

>Economy has ac too
Cute.

>>2798684
>EZJet patron takes EZBait

I got bumped to business class once, it was nice. Maybe worth spending a couple hundred over a normal ticket at most. If I actually paid 5k for the ticket, it wouldn't be worth it even if I got a blowjob from all the flight attendants.

>>2788194 (OP)

>Buy round trip tickets to Europe on KLM
>$1,200 round trip
>not terrible for direct flights
>have a little extra money
>check to see what an upgrade to business class cost a few days later
>$8,100 for one way upgrade.

Who is seriously buying these tickets? Who finds that to be worth it? I know many people use points and shit but cash back credit cards are so much more financially responsible on a day to day basis. Are the "retail" prices for these tickets purposefully astronomical to encourage people to use their airline credit card on daily purchases just so they can upgrade on a few flights a year? I really don't understand the whole points/miles/upgrades industry.

I got a delta premium select but it was less than double main cabin. It is totally worth it to me though because it’s 22 total flight hours and another checked bag included. Fuck sitting in a cuck chair for 15 hours. First class is completely stupid though.

>>2799614
No one is paying $8100 for the upgrade. You could buy the round trip ticket in business for half that.

>>2788251

>1130 : 14:42
>6hr12m
what

>>2799614
>Who is seriously buying these tickets?
businesses

hence, business class

glad to have helped solve this mystery!

>>2800008
....think for 3 seconds anon

>>2799614
I bought return trip business on KLM for 1900 euros to Japan once
Though was not direct so obviously going to be cheaper

Their business class food is absolute shite btw

>>2799614
airline cards and corporate exec travel

>>2788194 (OP)
I usually pay a little extra to get an emergency exit seat or just a seat in front of the bulkhead, that extra leg room does wonders for me and I'm only 5'10

The one and so far only time I flew business class was because it was actually cheaper for me at the time.

>be me
>looking for flights the usual way
>Economy Class: $3000
>Business Class: $1700
The choice was pretty obvious. I know this was a rare occurrence and it'll probably never happen again, but it was nice.

>>2800008
Time zones, anon. 14:42 in Los Angeles is the same as 17:42 in New York.

>>2800056
>businesses
False. I fly often for work, and my employer (a major business) only buys economy tickets.