Thread 214474528

It would be incredibly kino. Closest thing I an find is Deadliest Warrior but they didn't even pit them against one another.

>>214474528 (OP)
Those are two knights

>>214474528 (OP)
>Paper armor vs hardened steel

>samurai
>katana can't cut through plate armor
>spear cannot pierce it
>arrows cannot pierce it
>smaller, with poorer nutrition
>inferior metal for weapons
It's over

>>214474528 (OP)
>samurai vs knight
Broke
>samurai vs hussar
Awake

>>214474528 (OP)
>Closest thing I an find is Deadliest Warrior but they didn't even pit them against one another.
Because they knew the knight would easily win; which is why they put the knight up against a fucking pirate with a gun and the samurai against a viking. Which was also stupid because the katana couldn't do shit against the Viking's shield or mail armor so they gave him a meme hammer weapon which made him "win." God that show was so stupid.

>>214474636
You think a samurai wouldnt slit their throats while they sleep? Lol theyd be stalking them for days while the knights assume theyd fight like white men.

>>214474528 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1582_Cagayan_battles

>>214474789
Yes, the samurai are notorious for their lack of honor.

>>214474789
i think you are confusing samurai with ninja
samurai followed Bushido, a code of honor similar to western Chivalry

>>214474636
The metalurgical differences were pretty negligible. Muslim infantry was worse equipped than the Samurai and they still killed many Christian knights. The decisive factor wouldn't be armour or arms, as a longsword isn't going to cut through a samurai's armour either, but it'd be the European superiority in cavalry and mounted combat in general.
>>214474768
Vikings actually sucked at fighting and got trounced by even part time militia, a Samurai is several centuries more advanced than a Viking and would trounce them, one on one or in organized warfare.

>>214474789
Yes, altrough they will prefer to gang up on a knight with their numbers, duel is pure cope

>>214475802
>>214475609
>ITT: Retard competition

>>214474789
What the fuck are you on about? Knights fought more diverse foes than the Samurai did. And honour is a meme for Samurai and Knights alike. The biggest difference would be the propensity to ransom Knights vs the Samurai propensity towards suicide over capture

>>214474636
>jiujitsu
Armor and weapons don't mean much at grappling distance. And lots of buhurt matches end up there.

>>214475834
>The metalurgical differences were pretty negligible
No, they are not, and Muslims don't have access to plate armor and evel less late european knights fought agains them, except the Ottomans, altrough the Ottomans are years ahead compared to the average Muslim shithole and armor started to get passed out because the prevalence of gunpowder weapons
>as a longsword isn't going to cut through a samurai's armour either
Depends, they are made primary for piercing than slash, this goes to the falchion and others curved swords, altrough the level of technogical disparity between late Europe and Japan is extremely, no comparison.

>>214475834
Several longsword techniques adapt it as a club when it can't slash. The samurai have nothing similar.

>>214475902
>Armor and weapons don't mean much at grappling distance
Uhhhhh...

>>214475902
Yes, the only problem is that grappling is pretty much the standard or basic of knight fight, especially when fighint on plate armor, it is not exclusively Japanese

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringen

>>214475920
They have anti armour weapons. No, a Katana, Tachi, Uchigatana or Odachi aren't really equipped with pommel or guards for smashing opponents but that was always an ineffective and last ditch tactic for Longsword, anyway. It's nowhere near as effective in the anti armour role as a dedicated weapon such as a mace, poleaxe, etc.
>>214475911
Even half swording or putting your full weight behind it won't make a longsword pierce through plate, dude. Just like European harness you'd have to go for weak spots in the joints.

>>214475954
>longsword biased reverse weeaboo making extremely cherrypicked test fooled a generation of people into acting as retarded as the original katana hypemen

>>214475974
>Even half swording or putting your full weight behind it won't make a longsword pierce through plate, dude
Yes, the thing that Japan dodn't have before having contact with Europe, when they started to adopt plate (import) into their own armor, and where i said that you can easily pierce plate armor in the first place ?

>>214474789
Truke. Nights can't do shit against the sharingan.

>>214474528 (OP)
The comparison don't make much sense, the peak samurai armor, weapons, fencing, etc... was on the sengoku jidai, or 1500 AD, in this that Europe was already on the renaissance and early modern period, so abandoning their classic knight armor, weapons, etc... and passed out for mass infantry and gunpowder

>>214475999
Now try saying it without crying.

>>214475999
Altrough the scientific, technological, material and metallurgical disparity between Japan and Europe in that time was massive the test he did was indeed stupid and nonense.

>>214476164
It's true, though. Do you have any idea how disingenious that test was and how hoodwinked people became? A generation of fat 12 year olds came away thinking a Katana will shatter if it clashes with a Longsword and can't even be used to parry. Not only do swords not generally clash blade to blade, at least on purpose, but putting one in a vice so the reverberating shock has nowhere to go is about as far from actual battlefield conditions as possible, not to mention the swords were improperly made for the sake of his sensationalist nonsense.

>>214474528 (OP)
its a stupid premise because there is legitimately no counter to a full plate armoured knight in single hand to hand combat. but people also take it without context and don't realise full plate armour wasn't relevant for very long nor were armies based on these knight's existences, it existed in a very specific time and in that timeperiod no other single military unit would beat them in a 1v1 melee due to the simple fact of technological and specialized skill difference.

>>214476212
I said without crying.

>>214475974
>but that was always an ineffective and last ditch tactic for Longsword
Completely false. The swords weren't always kept ultra sharp and no matter if they were, they wouldn't work against another full-plated knight. It's a well-documented, refined technique and not a last-ditch effort.

>>214476183
>technological
Not really. At what time? In certain eras Japan had the edge, others Japan had the edge. Heavy Japanese O-Yoroi predates European plate by a significant margin and was the most comprehensive and protective armour in the world for quite some time. Mild and then hardened European plate appeared and took the lead, but the point is even Tosei Gusoku existed without European input and provided decent protection in the form of iron and steel plate. And metallurgical is a myth, or at least overstated, much like le magical viking crucible steel or the practice of bog steel being tempered with animal hides. The raw material was inferior, yes, hence the very intensive effort put into removing impurities so the finished product was more or less the equivalent of any first rate weapons anywhere in the world. China and Korea and SEAsi had better raw materials but the finished products of Japan were of such quality craftsmanship that they were sought after. First contact with Japan by Europeans had nothing particularly disparaging to say on Japanese arms and armour.

>>214476265
My nigga do you actually do any study of primary resources? Two knights in a duel hit eachother scores of times with fully fledged poleaxes. A longsword is not an anti armour weapon. Hitting somebody with a pommel or crossguard is not going to be as effective as a dedicated anti armour weapon. I never said it wasn't refined, but it was not the purpose or design of a longsword and is thus an improvised technique. A Knight's primary weapon wasn't even a Longsword in the first damn place, much like a Katana was not a Samurai's.

These arguments are always fucking stupid because they never define what a knight or samurai is, and bring up retarded examples ranging from conquistadors to crusaders.

Lets at least set some ground rules: Both are from the year 1500 and wealthy enough to afford whatever armour they want in good quality. The knight has a halberd, the samurai has a naginata, as backup they have traditional swords of equal length and reinforced anti armour daggers. They are in a duel on foot on flat ground and temperature isn't an issue.

Now, under these conditions, I personally think the knight would win, the armour advantage is just too significant. I will say however it definitely wouldnt be a cakewalk like some people here think, people seriously underestimate samurai armour. It wasnt as good as western armour but it was very effective, and the fight would quickly devolve into a brawl. These larper guys have good unchoreographed videos where they put on full armour(reproduction armour thats less durable than real armour was, keep that in mind) and absolutely beat the shit out of each other to show what armoured combat was really like. They actually have a couple of videos with this theme
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gRhNg9S4RzI

>>214476386
I'd probably say Yari rather than Naginata. Yari wasn't at the zenith of it's popularity but the Naginata was declining in popularity by then. Very balanced analysis, though. Reminds me of the good old /histv/ threads

>arrives
>slaps your shit
>disappears from history without a trace
>refuses to elaborate
What the FUCK did they mean by this?

>>214476292
i ain't reading all that
i'm happy for u tho
or sorry that happened

>>214476386
people who have these kind of arguments obvioulsy don't know any historical contexts to draw from, but i think most people mean full plate armour when they refer to knight in these situations, in which case an average knight would always beat an average samurai, just due to plate armour and european weapons superiority, and the fact that knights would have 20-30cm and 30-40kg of height and weight over them..

>>214476409
Yeah i picked naginata over yari because its generally considered to be the japanese equivalent to the western halberd, its often actually translated directly to halberd. I was in tokyo recently and saw some yari heads without shafts and some of them had absolutely ridiculous tangs, definitely built for heavy punishment and anti armour, pic related doesnt really compare but i cant find any good pics online lol.
>>214476448
Most people are definitely thinking of advanced full plate armour but i think theyre retarded and dont know the historical setting in which that was created, they bring up crusaders vs muslims every single time as if it has any relevance whatsoever. Its like bringing up armoured horse drawn wagons in a discussion about ww2 tanks

>>214476386
>>214476448
>>214476512
Relevant. Guys who wore mostly chainmail with a helmet and maybe a few small plates are in an entirely different league compared to guys clad head to toe in flexible steel that shared a battlefield with handheld guns and were still effective.

>>214476512
Luv me long tangs
I really like all the variants on the Yari. Jumonji, Masakari, Chidori, Katakama, etc.

>>214476628
1500-1700 pike and shot era was a gradual change where at some point arquebuses hadn't surpassed crossbows yet and plate armour was still advancing in small ways and worn by elites just for good measure all the way until muskets improved enough to become standard, but i beleive from the late 14th century onwards a knight would be unbeatable 1v1 against any soldier from anywhere, especially japs who have always been manlets and knights were well-fed nobility past the crusader era.

>>214474528 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLzXuBWfx0

>>214474636
>with poorer nutrition
They were the equivalent of noblemen (knights), I think they were well fed.

>>214476994
japs are manlets even today (even compared to chinese and koreans) and they were recorded as so back in the day.

none of you know what the fuck you're talking about
source: I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about and you're all saying stuff I would say

>>214477025
Didn't stop them from slaughtering Mongol, Chinese and Korean forces despite the size disadvantage

>>214477080
>slaughtering Mongol, Chinese and Korean forces
What is this? a Japan cope thread?

>>214477025
In didn't quote "smaller" which is very probable, I only said the rich guys (samurai) were certainly wel fed, there's no reason they only got the simple rice menu like vulgar peasants.

>>214477118
A thread discussing history? They trounced the Chinese and Koreans in two seperate wars centuries apart, at least on land.

>>214477122
Knights WISH they had the monopoly on nutrition that Samurai had. Buddhism forbade eating meat but the Samurai ate alot of boar flesh because they successfully argued with the Buddhist clergy about what the definition of flesh was. I think it had to do with a discussion on banning mushrooms which had "flesh" but they managed to argue that they were plants a as they "grew in the forest"
Which they managed to use to justify eating boar meat because boars "grew in the forest" and it was a huge flex to eat boar meat inside a buddhist temple where meat was super banned, even fish IIRC

>>214474528 (OP)
There was a video game I can't remember the name of which seemed to be almost entirely based off the simulations they used for Deadliest Warrior. You could have like an army of 10k Samurai taking on an army of 20k knights to see who would win. They were just simulations obviously, but you chose who fought who, how big or small their army was, and all of that other shit. Can't actually remember the name of it though.

>>214477212
Totally Accurate Battle Simulator?

>>214477178
>knights wish they had the monopoly on nutrition like the guys who had to jump through hoops just to eat meat and almost couldnt even eat mushrooms
lolwut

>>214477230
It wasn't that, but seems like the same kinda deal. This one the characters and graphics were more realistic looking.

>>214477244
I forgot to add that the Samurai were way more well nourished compared to their peasant population than Knights were. Peasants in Europe generally had access to alot of meat and skeletal differences between nobility and peasantry wasn't as pronounced as it was in Japan, Hell, alot of apocryphal stories state a high born woman was stronger than your usual rice fed farmer.

>>214476425
Atlanteans

>>214474636
>samurai
>has a matchlock arquebus because he's from the late 16th century
If the knight's 16th century too for some reason he also has a gun and the whole thing just comes down to two dudes shooting at each other, also if you use even later samurai then you'll have to include a revolver, possibly a rifle too, as potential weapons since they spent a while as contemporaries with American gunmen and a few notables did were known to have used them. Knights will start to fall behind since the European mindset started shifting away from them and towards regular guys with guns before the Japanese stopped having samurai doing important shit domestically.

>>214476425
They became the Philistines (Palestine). They didn't disappear

>>214474528 (OP)
Greek hoplites would rek zulu warriors