And it's not just pic related. Pretty much everyone universally sees video games as just mindless consumer trash.

Don't care this world is for fags

>>712584357 (OP)
because there hasn't been a compelling argument. no one wants to actually distinguish between art and toys or games, they just want their hobby validated with a normatively loaded label

Accepting videogames are nothing but toys for children is one of the best things you can do as a gamer. Gaming becomes much better when you don't take it so seriously.

>>712584357 (OP)
Various kinds of pretentious sticks up their asses.

>>712584357 (OP)
stop thinking that art mean good and not art means bad

because midwits were trained to mimic "cultured" behaviors and methods of analysis instead of thinking for themselves
if it is not an "intellectually" approved form of media then it is beneath consideration and rigorous analysis

i never fucking understood this sentiment, who cares?
ok, let's say that videogames are art, then what?
what has changed?
i really don't get it

>>712584606
This. Same goes for television and movies.

Video games are art and just like any other form of art you have your consumerist trash meant for making money and you have your serious stuff meant for serious adult emotion intellect stuff.

>>712584585
I’m going to tell you a secret: there’s no functional difference between toys and art, because toys and games are art. All of them. Not even just video games, board games, physical games, and all sports.

>>712584357 (OP)
>nooo why aren't men working shitty jobs and raising Jamal's son and volunteering to die for Israel??
Roastie complaints. I'll stick to my vidya, normies can persist in the doomed world they created.

im coping with the fact that the sun is going to explode and vaporize the earth, and even if we somehow invented spaceships one day, we would never make it to another galaxy because the void in between galaxies is expanding faster than you could ever close the gap, so all the matter in this galaxy will one day end up getting pulled into the black hole at the center of the milky way.

so i say fuck it. if im not getting off this planet, nobody is.

>>712584357 (OP)
Remakes exist, so they are mindless consumer trash yes, they went the way of the motion picture in record time

video game fun
I enjoy

>>712585604
Fairly certain Sagittarius A won’t just consume the galaxy, more likely the galaxy will just spin itself into incoherence.

>>712584357 (OP)
Because normies are retarded. End of discussion.

>>712584357 (OP)
>some fat bald neckbeard has something to tell you
I don’t care. Look at him.

>>712584357 (OP)
Videogames always have art but that doesn't mean all art is video games. There is games with some breathtaking levels that make you rethink what is life and what is a virtual life. Games with such amazing wonderment, art direction, characters, and story that they challenge everything you know.

Then you have "Poop Warefare 4" selling itself for $69.99 for standard edition. Of course it's going to be seen as a waste of time if cosumer trash is what is the most popular.

>>712584357 (OP)
I know people like this /pol/fag, they think of nothing but politics. It's all they discuss, it's all they put their time into, and if/when the candidates they support lose they get really quiet. Oddly, only known one or two that actually worked on a campaign or something like that

>>712584357 (OP)
because art started as such and then became a product. Games started as products and gradually became art. Both of them are still regarded as what they started as.

>>712584606
>>712584916
Based. The overwhelming majority of academics/intellectuals are smug retards who fawn over anything that flatters their sensibilities. I give less than 2 fucks if they look down on people who like vidya, cartoons, etc.

>>712584357 (OP)
You can say pic-related about pretty much everything that doesn't directly benefit work performance

>>712584357 (OP)
>Video games are fucking art!
>But also give me a remake/remaster of an old game with realistic graphics, remove or change all the "problematic" things in it and uglify all the female characters because i can't appreciate old games the way they are and also change controllers too, i'm too shitty with with tank controllers
Fuck off nigger.

>>712584357 (OP)
The most popular indie game last year was a glorified mobile card game. Keep in mind that indie games are universally praised as being le heckin creative and wholesome.

Point being that people who don’t really play games have a surface level view of what actually exists, so they’re not going to have insightful views as to the artistic merits in the video game industry.

>>712584357 (OP)
tr/vee/thn/vee/ke: any radical ideology needs soldiers, including whatever the alt-right/white supremacy/republicans/maga has morphed into over the years, and if young men aren't signing up to be soldiers in the war for that ideology, then they're useless, so of course rhetoric like this exists to dissuade would-be recruits and evangelists alike from adopting lifestyles that interfere with whatever operations their cohorts have in mind, including the abandoning of popular culture.

I mean just look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULsTm5VR73c these beautiful white girl twins who once sang songs about muh rally the white troops muh white power who grew up and realized her family was batshit insane.

>>712586578
Consumer trash is also art. Art has nothing to do with quality. The worst MCU slop out there is art too. You guys need to stop thinking art = good.

>>712586690
>Oddly, only known one or two that actually worked on a campaign
Because they don't actually care beyond their side winning so they can own people online. Politics for most people is just consolewars or power level threads for adults except worse because, while none of these arguments actually accomplish anything, people place way more emotional investment into screeching about politics to the point they shun their own friends and family.

i'd love to take a big crusty shit on an anon in this thread

>>712587881
Is this art to you?

>>712584357 (OP)
It doesn't matter. Most people do not play video games that would qualify as art- by most standards someone that cares about art would be likely to apply, anyway. The same goes for movies- most people watch capeshit and bridget jones' diary, not Bergman.
Furthermore- art isn't actually that important so nobody cares.

>>712584606
Based and true. The two extremes of ''NOOO VIDEOGAMES ARE ART'' vs ''NOOO VIDEOGAMES ARE TOYS STOP ESCAPING'' are equally as retarded.

Yes I will play this game because it's fun and helps me relax.
Yes I will listen to the OST.
Yes I will discuss and think about the meaning behind it even if it doesn't matter because it's fun.

>>712588063
Yes. And to be clear, I also think shitty crayon drawings done by children are art.
The trick here is that you get to decide if that art is good or bad. So for instance, I think the picture you posted is shitty art.

>>712588654
Huh, you know I can actually kinda see your worldview. Maybe I should have worded it wrong.

Everything is art but that doesn't mean it's GOOD art would be a more truthful statement. Most art only exists as a way to sucker idiots into buying it even though it's made with blood and diarrhea.

>>712584357 (OP)
Because there hasn't been a game that comes remotely close to the quality of the best work from most respected mediums.

>>712584357 (OP)
>talking about art when /v/tards can't tell the difference between AI and their mom
lmao even

>>712588786
Essentially my main point is that I hate when people use art as a descriptor of quality. That something is good, so it must be art. And there’s a lot of respectable people in the world who fall into that trap. I don’t think EVERYTHING is art because I think we also make tools. Essentially I view art as a physical manifestation of the human experience not explicitly meant as a tool to keep us alive.
For instance, turning a stick into a spear to kill an animal you need to eat to live vs turning a stick into a spear because you like the way spears look, or cooking a meal with the bare minimum nutritional value to keep you functional vs cooking a meal with a family recipe that will feed you yes, but will also make you feel emotionally connected to your family. Intent is what makes art, not quality.

>>712588786
>Most art only exists as a way to sucker idiots into buying it even though it's made with blood and diarrhea.
I thought about this argument, and these kinds of pieces make a statement themselves about the state of modern art, don't you think? You can think the message is trivial and the piece didn't have a lot of composition put into it, but it still has a message.

>>712584357 (OP)
Normies accept that games like Witcher 3, Baldurs Gate 3 or Expedition 33 are art.

Because it is true, games are literally made to appeal to the stuppidest retards in our society, just look at most threads in here
>eceleb shit
>ragebait
>coom faggotry
They are a perfect reflection of the kind of retard that plays games 24/7
>W-Why are you here then? G-Gotcha
Because i like vidya, but i'm self aware enough to realize that they're no different to fast food, just a cheap and quick way to get pleasure

>>712590497
/tv/ and /mu/ are the same

>>712584606
Based

>>712584357 (OP)
They mostly do. It's the illiterate ones that do not.

>>712590497
But, retard, people on here don't play video games.

>>712591119
Lmao, this meme was true 10 years ago, the average /v/igger now plays videogames, but only shit like gachas and the latest f2p slop like Marvel Rivals

>>712584357 (OP)
So they get butt hurt that movies and TV call themselves art, and say video games aren't. None of its art, its media, But don't worry you don't like real art anyway, you like illustrations.

>>712591764
When John Mario ate that mushroom and said bing bing wahoo... i knew what it meant for the wars in the middle east

>>712584357 (OP)
>here's my long winded rant about how I'm totally not upset about having wasted my life not doing the things I wanted and how everyone should do the same as me

>>712591975
I mean you just have to look at fags like Boogie, DSP, and Wings to get it, you don't have to be a loser yourself to see why it's bad

>>712584357 (OP)
What does it matter? If it's art, okay. Making a building out of toothpicks can be considered an art too?

>>712592171
There's unironically skill and vision behind someone making something as simple as a little figure out of toothpicks

>>712592171
Is this not art to you?

>>712584357 (OP)
who cares?
No really, who gives a shit.

>>712584357 (OP)
The art discussion is retarded. You are retarded for taking part of it. Art is shit.

>>712594051
Truly unexpected mindset from a guy who plays with children's toys all day

Videogames are something other than art
And if you play them right, they are also above it

>>712584357 (OP)
>Pretty much everyone universally sees video games as just mindless consumer trash.
They are. So what? Are you having fun playing them? That's their only purpose.

>>712584357 (OP)
I think art is unnecessary. If everyone just did their jobs and stayed out of trouble, we'd be utopian.

>>712597190
Unironic NPC shit lmao

>>712597190
I can't really agree or disagree with your statement until you elaborate on what you think "art" encompasses.

>>712584606
TPBP

>>712584357 (OP)
>wings of redemption

Why does this sound so familiar

>>712584357 (OP)
Tell you what anon. You arent wrong. But whats the alternative? Theres no sense of adventure irl anymore, not unless you dish out tons of money to travel.

>>712597946
He was one of the first lolcows. 00s internet type drama.

>>712585604
Humans will be beyond the scope of death within the next few centuries. I don’t believe we’ll necessarily solve immortality by 2040 but reversing aging will definitely be within most of our lifetimes. With millions or years of years time, time travel and inter galactic space travel would be simple if we really wanted to both by that point. That implies that the science isn’t just made up like many other “basic laws” that are already disproven.

>>712584357 (OP)
I will never accept something mass produced and made by committee, for profit, to be art. Artists can work in the industry, and there can be art IN games, but the games themselves aren't. An artist was involved in designing the look of Coca-Cola cans, that doesn't mean said cans themselves are art, simple as.

>>712598284

>>712598339
You laugh but you are made up energy which according to your science cannot exist, as energy in this universe cannot be created nor destroyed to begin with. Yet it was created in spite of that and that law is still taught in schools across the world.

>>712584357 (OP)
The 'art community' has two segments - those who think games are an art medium and those who don't. Those who do say its no different than film and the content made for a medium doesn't negate it from being an art form. Those who say it isn't one say that because of the inherent nature of play being the driving force of video games that they cannot be art and will remain as play. Likewise there are two segments of gamers that have similar opinions - one group saying games are art and the other not. The 'games as art' crowd will say similar things to the artist who believe they are art. The gamers who say that games aren't art though do so for reason like "they're just games, they're for fun, they aren't that deep, etc." What I've noticed is that gamers who don't want games to be seen as art don't want their games to be anything more than just win or lose or objective based titles. I'm generalizing but gamers who don't want games to be art don't want games to be anything more than play and not engage with storytelling or interactive experiences in any way that is not conducive to 'gameplay.' Game journos want games to be art because they want to be taken seriously and that will never happen which is the biggest takeaway of all.

>>712584357 (OP)
>People waste thousands of hours increasing stats on a virtual reality.
And?

>>712584882
The only thing that matters is the legality of video games as art, so they cannot be censored or destroyed etc. by governments. And they are already protected in that respect at least in civilized nations. Anything else is just useless debate.

>>712584357 (OP)
When did art become something important when engineering is just as impressive? Games are an engineering feat.

>>712600070
Reality is never fun, so escaping it is inherently fun.

>>712585251
It's more about intent than anything. When I play a CoD game I don't see it as art, same as watching a Marvel movie. It's entertainment. There is a difference because one is purely math and the other is emotive. There are games that are mathematically bad, yet still good art. Mass Effect (only the first one) has poor mechanics. The button to snap into cover doesn't always work, your gun doesn't always aim where you pointed it, sometimes the graphics glitch and you see through the walls, yet it is art because it's more than the sum of its parts, despite being mechanically flawed. It doesn't appeal to everyone, but different people have different tastes in what art pieces they do or don't like. Mass Effect 2 on the other hand is mechanically polished. It works like a dream. You aren't going to be experiencing half as many glitches as you would playing the first game, yet Mass Effect 2 is a paint-by-numbers experience that doesn't have the same appeal as the first game. It's action movie schlock, made specifically that way to appeal to the numbers. It's made to attract a larger audience, purely math and devoid of any passion, a hollow experience. I enjoyed both games for different reasons, though it cheapened the entire series by not committing to a tone.
A mechanically bad game can still be an emotionally moving, innovative, or technically impressive work, despite it's medium. It can elevate itself to the level of art. A mechanically good game can be derivative, boring, and made by a crack team of the top psychologists in the world to drain your wallet and still be a dry, lifeless, forgettable experience. It is just an entertaining toy or a diversion.
I enjoyed Silent Hill 1 but I didn't enjoy Silent Hill 2, though they're both art. My tastes are different than others in that regard.
It's rare that a video game can both be art and solid entertainment, that's the nature of the medium.
Fortnite is not art, but its fun.
tldr; soul vs soulless

>>712584357 (OP)
Because the usual people that advocate for it don’t understand what about games are art. Most of them just want games to be movies and suck off cinematic/pretentious bullshit.

>>712598974
Dude, you are like Quasimodo or something

>>712584357 (OP)
Videogames can be art.
Videogames that are made by 5000+ people, with credits for 10000+ people to cover all tne nepo baby "consultants" and money laundering, at the behest of a board of executives who neither play videogames nor know much about videogames, for the primary purpose of pleasing dozens of financial firms that don't even ask what the videogames are even about, on the other hand, are not and can never be art.

It's an art form, but the primary merit it has as art is in the feeling that the gameplay can evoke, and how those feelings intersect with the games' themes, design, development history, etc.

>>712586578
>>712587881
>>712588654
>>712589996
These are the only intelligent posts in this thread

Same can be said of anything. A lot of these criticisms never offer a real alternative, they shamelessly hide their authors’ habits to relieve themselves through their mouth as their bowel

>pic
>implying any pasttime isn't inherently an expenditure of time for recreational enjoyment
As if people watch movies, read books, play sports, etc. for gaining transferable skills and not for the fun of it, separate from their professional life.

>>712584606
>Accepting videogames are nothing but toys for children is one of the best things you can do as a gamer.
Toys are art though, art doesn't have to be deep or meaningful or anything, it can be superficial shit, plenty of art is. Basically anything cultural humans make is art or an artifact. You know what else is art, board games, they're art, they're a representation of something else generally speaking; hide and seek, that's performance art, someone came up with some rules and conventions and who knows how long ago and it still persists today. Ancient jars for holding wine and olive oil are art, dogs playing poker on velvet is art, Shakespeare is art and so are shitty soap operas and for its times Shakespeare was considered shitty low class soap opera tier art.

>>712584973
>Video games are art and just like any other form of art you have your consumerist trash meant for making money and you have your serious stuff meant for serious adult emotion intellect stuff.
Pretty sure Michelangelo wasn't painting the Sistine Chapel for free. Art and commerce are almost always inextricably intertwined, hell that ancient cave painting art from the Stone Age, that probably had artistic, ritualistic and economic purposes.

>>712584606
And then you throw a temper tantrum when something gets censored.

>>712584606
Reductive nonsense.

>>712584606

>>712584357 (OP)
People who like and play games may consider them art if they wish. Other people don't matter and begging for their approval is gay

>>712584573
Flippy bippy. None of this shit matters and if people care so much why are they worried about lesser beings such as gamers instead of stat maxing irl? Thread should have died here because everyone's a disingenuous faggot now.

>>712584357 (OP)
>writing up paragraphs on 4chan to tell other 4chan users how they should spend their free time
this nigga has ZERO authority on the wise usage of free time. roflcopter

>>712584357 (OP)
As long as there's a price tag and developers are trying to meet sales expectations, videogames are [entertainment] products first and foremost. If you think of vidya as art, you'll be less likely to make changes that go against your ego.

>>712584585
The use of rules gets people to think a certain way. There's a reason that gamification is so common and it's because it is transformative to the experience.
>>712585873
That's just because of global IP law, which killed all expressions of culture.
>>712608169
>Grug no ask question when suspiciously wealthy furry commission cave painting of man with mammoth

>>712584357 (OP)
Skills are useless when jobs pay like dogshit. The real world is shit and I owe nothing to a society that hates me.

>>712584606
They agreed with him because he told them the truth.

>>712584357 (OP)
Because whenever people try to say that games are not "merely", or do not have to be "merely" about pleasure, recreation and relaxation, but can also be about something more, this "more" turns out to be less, for the design philosophy that is inaugurated on the basis of the craving for this "more", results invariably in games that are the opposite of pleasurable, recreational and relaxing — in games, that is to say, which, in a single word, are boring. So in place of the fun game you get what retards call the "art game", with its hidden message and profound moral meaning, and absolutely never any fucking gameplay worth a damn, and a story that instead of being entertaining is just annoying.

>>712584606
this

>>712584357 (OP)
>Why can't people accept video games as art?
Because videogames are not art.
They contain art. Music, sculpture, and painting. But a videogame isn't any of these things. A videogame is mechanics and interactions with systems. If videogames are art then ordering a burger from a drivethrough and depositing your pay at the ATM would need to be art too. Because that's what games are. Digitization of the mundane.

>>712584357 (OP)

video games are inferior as a story medium and the stories you can tell with it are limited
instead of crying about games not being taken seriously you should accept that low culture is also necessary in culture and has it's place