who was in the right?

>>713195245 (OP)
The right one's Radagon

>>713195245 (OP)
They are allies and everything they did, they did it in accord

>>713196793
I was offered one of those once

>>713195245 (OP)
Marika is Radagon

>>713195245 (OP)
Marika.

Marika was a cunt who saw the bigger problem. Radagon was a “nice guy” who stayed loyal to the problem.

I’m still unsure whether Radagon loved Rennala or not. The golden egg is a nod to the cuckoo symbolism of the academy, which isn’t a good thing.

The outer gods

>>713195245 (OP)
Xer

>>713197504
Whether Rennala did a good thing for the academy by bringing Radagon in, or whether she’s teulynbetter than the old primeval grandmasters, is left rather ambiguous, like Malenia vs Radahn, or Placidusax vs Bayle.

>>713197531
what is she unlocking?

>>713197504
He gave her his dog. He loved her

>>713198075
He Radagon or he the dog

>>713198008
A footlocker to shove Miquella into like the fucking dipshit he is.

>>713197834
>teulynbetter
truly better*

>>713198075
The dog stayed loyal. His master left and he had nowhere else to go!

>>713195245 (OP)
Mommy Marika, duh. The Beast was nothing but a parasite feeding off of our souls.

>>713199263
the dog was pussy whipped

spoiler alert for twenty year old game they are the same

Marika but only because Radagon was a ginger and gingers are evil

>>713195245 (OP)
>tranny
>ever right
only on /v/

>>713198075
you just know

>>713198624
I swear to God phone keyboards have become universally dogshit across the board, that is the exact same fucking shit that happens to me constantly. I had zero issues typing on a fucking four inch screen in 2012 but now two to three extra inches and this garbage somehow constantly misses inputs or will just output the flat out wrong fucking character. And it's persistent across multiple phones and I see the exact same errors from posts here. I hate enshitification.
Rant over.

>>713197504
They are the same person and have the same objective and beliefs, you complete retard

>>713200028
Your rant is appreciated.

>>713200028
You WILL allow the auto-correct to slowly untrain you in the use of a keyboard

>>713199378
Marika summoned the Elden Beast with Radagon, through the Law of Regression, which is why it is specifically stated that the Elden Beast was a thing before turning into the Elden Ring.

Of course you are a coomer retard taking lore from vaatividya (another retard) so you wouldn't know (elden ring lore is retard-repellant and an IQ filter)

>>713196793
WRONG
Marika was forced to merge with Radagon to keep her in check
Marika wanted to break away from the Greater Will, Radagon was loyal to the Greater Will as a fundamentalist

>>713195245 (OP)
>>713197531
>>713199378
>>713201051
thats not how she looks like, Ranjesh

>>713199813

>>713201016
you fight the Elden Beast because when you defeated Radagon/Marika the vessel that held it was broken

>>713201051
Headcanon bullshit made up from youtuber retards with zero literacy and critical thinking skills
Marika and Radagon are allies and want to shatter and merge together, and Marika even states so.
The DLC makes it even more clear by showing how a God is ascended by being reborn after death with a Lord Consort, which is exactly why Marika is interested in embedding Destined Death in herself and leads the Tarnished to Farum Azula

>>713200868
They are the same schizo with each schizoid personality having different objectives and beliefs, you complete retard.

>>713201239
No, you fight the Elden Beast because Marika becomes a true goddess and can actually regress the Elden Ring to its primordial form
>It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.
Marika and Radagon studied the origin of the Erdtree to trace back to the coming of the Elden Beast.

>>713201270
wrong

>>713201537
No, they are the same person with the same beliefs and objectives, which is quite clear for whoever actually paid attention to the game instead of crafting retarded headcanons.

Marika created Radagon as her larval tear through the Rune of the Unborn. Hos hair are crimson like the giants because he is imbued with Erdtree amber.
It's not some retarded western HBO tier plot about split personality bullshit that tries to be deep, Radagon was literally created by Marika to be her Lord and he becomes her Lord and she ascends to Godhood.

>>713201270
the DLC is fucking garbage and nonsensical
Marika is a god because she holds the Elden Ring inside her, like Placidusax's god
the Divinity gate was made by the hornsent not the dragons
dragons didn't needed gate to have a god and Mikella doesn't have the Elden Ring
you are a fucking shizo pulling shit from your ass, it's pretty clear Marika's last resort was Godfrey coming back

Everyone is contradicting eachother
Which video sums it up best?

>>713201995

>>713202004
You have been BTFO every single tine you tried to delegitimize the DLC, proving every single time you didn't even understand the base game in the first place.
You are wrong and retarded

>>713202032
yeah can someone do this im confused again

>>713202087
>You have been BTFO every single tine you tried to delegitimize the DLC

>>713202084
Every single thing I wrote is correct, and the source is the game itself
Radagon gives to Rennala the egg that birthed him, egg that was takes from the Bonny village by Marika.

>>713200868
>>713201016
>>713201270
>>713201995
>herp derp

>make sexy blonde Aryan goddess
>succeed
it's really that easy isn't it?

>>713202218
Aren't you tured of getting called retard and laughed at
Cmon ask about Miquella's body, village idiot
You are under the intended IQ filter for the game

>>713201995
>No, they are the same person with the same beliefs and objectives, which is quite clear for whoever actually paid attention to the game instead of crafting retarded headcanons.
The statues showcase her failing resolve while Radagon stands upright. Marika speaks of Radagon with what is implied to be disdain. Marika tried to destroy the Ring while Radagon attempted to repair it. This is all laid out.

>>713202294
Nah, the removal of the Rune of Rebirth is actually a missing key to the Rune of Destined Death. Both were removed for a singular reason. :)

>>713201995
Marika is the one guiding you towards burning down the erdtree to take the Elden Ring, Radagon is the one that sealed the tree forcing you to burn it down, and fights you when you enter the erdtree.

This is quite clear for whoever actually paid attention to the game instead of crafting retarded headcanons.

Canon is whatever you feel like in Fromsoft games.
Therefore canon is that Marika did nothing wrong, and after becoming Elden Lord the Tarnished had lots of happy unprotected sex with her to give her a big loving family.

>>713195245 (OP)
the burning hand underground

>>713202528
>The statues showcase her failing resolve while Radagon stands upright. Marika speaks of Radagon with what is implied to be disdain.
Nope, Marika plainly states that he has yet to become God, and then shatters him and herself so they can merge. From wasn't even being cryptic about this but the subhumans will still make up random shit rather than properly interpret the most blatant hints
>Marika tried to destroy the Ring while Radagon attempted to repair it.
More headcanon nonsense, especially because you don't "destroy" the Ring. This is not retarded LOTRshit. The Ring is the manifestation of Order which binds souls. It can be shattered and reformed, which happened before and will happen again because that's Marika's intention for her deific ascension

>>713202847
kino
not going for chaos ending in any of these games is just lame

>>713202867
Yeah you didn’t play the game.

>>713202521
>Aren't you tured of getting called retard and laughed at
you're opinion is less than shit my dude and your schizo theories make no sense
the DLC is clear jumbled garbage, it was supposed to be a dreamscape of death, Rogier and Fortissax prove death and dreams are connected and St Tryna, Miquela's Alter Ego was supposed to guide you

>>713202867
>More headcanon nonsense
It's said word for word in game brainlet

>>713202867
>Nope, Marika plainly states that he has yet to become God, and then shatters him and herself so they can merge.
Lol, lmao even.

>>713201270
I just fucking know from the schizobabble you’re spouting that you’re the same retard who’s always infesting these threads with their headcanon. PS, the crucible is not a big pot.

>>713195334
jej

>>713202867
lol you fucking faggot
Marika/Radagon is to be a foil of the alchemical perfect being, while the perfect being is male/female in perfect harmony Marika and Radagon are in conflict opposites
and Marika DID BREAK the Elden Ring and gave pieces to her Children

Why did from abandon their fanbase to chase the coop live service trend and the nintendo 2 fans? Was it something we said?

>>713202867
>More headcanon nonsense
No. Her hammer states she broke it, and he attempted to repair it.

— Stone hammer made in the lands of the Numen, outside the Lands Between.
— The tool with which Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it.

>especially because you don't "destroy" the Ring
This is something I do believe, however. Marika wants us to kill a god, the Ring, as she grew disillusioned. The Ring and the Beast might also not be as intimately the same thing as people think. If we slay the Beast, and the Ring is still around… then it’s a possibility that there’s more nuance involved.

It’s also likely that “slaying” the Beast is a fancy way of saying that you alchemically changed or reforged the Ring. There’s a lot of alchemical and forge metaphors.

>>713203185
>hey guys, do you want to make a lot of money?
Don’t take it personally anon

>>713203540
just like das rheingald...

>>713203178
Yeah it’s a reverse tale of the Rebis or whatever esoterically addled fans seem to think.

It’s also worth pointing out that Placidusax’s heads are a mixture of male and female. He had formerly five heads while the talisman depicting him only has four… What does this mean?

>>713203713
the missing one is sucking his own dick

>>713202952
I’m still so fucking mad that they cut all the dream quests from the game. Death and dreams WERE meant to be linked. It’s even a theme in asoiaf. The red priests hate sleeping because it’s like the death they hate. We were meant to go into Rogier’s death dream and such.

>>713203462
NTA, Rogier talks about the malleability of the golden order’s ring in the past. I think “reforged” and “shattered” are very different in context. With a regeneration change there’s always an alteration, most commonly to the cycle of rebirth, but I do think Marika was the first to full tilt nihilist style smash it to pieces. Order is broken in a way that it never has been before, which explains Radagons pointless urgency to fix the ring. Though of course because he’s also unwilling to alter the broken ring because of his fundamentalist beliefs, he’s fucked.

>>713202641
No, the Rune of the Unborn was taken from here by Marika because the Shamans had the role to imbue Erdtree blessings into larval tears from the spiritgraves of the Realm of Shadow. This role is now completely pointless when the Erdtree binds the souls in a cycle of eternal life and return to the tree itself
>>713202717
Marika and Radagon guide the player to Farum Azula to unseal death
The rest is bullshit
>>713202784
No
>>713202912
I did, I understand it better than most and especially (You)
>>713202952
Nope, you are a retard and every single time you tried actually arguing you got BTFO. You don't understand the base game. Hell you probably are too dumb to understand other Souls games too
>>713203020
Nope, it's mot
>>713203149
No argument. Marika invites Radagon to be both shattered, him as her other half, to merge. Nothing indicates hostility or disdain. It's doubly clear with the DLC bit it was already blatant that Marika and Radagon are allies and Marika shatters both for them to merge, with Radagon never having the actual means, motive or even hint of going against her. Radagon vs Marika narrative is some headcanon bullshit that was half assed by lorelets to rationalize the narrative 2 years ago and it only survives in the head of retards with no literacy
>>713203159
>No argument
>>713203178
No, Radagon is not a foil to Marika
Radagon is Marika, in intentions, objectives, beliefs and actual behaviour
>>713203462
>Her hammer states she broke it
No, she shattered it
>and he attempted to repair it.
Yes, because that's how the Elden Ring changes from one host to another.
>It’s also likely that “slaying” the Beast is a fancy way of saying that you alchemically changed or reforged the Ring.
Yes and that's exactly why what you said is retarded. Marika's shattering is in itself not the first just like Leyndell is still covered in ashes of when the sacred tree had burned.
This is why any narrative trying to pit Radagon and Marika as hostiles is retarded.

>>713203943
Can we just collectively agree to start ignoring him

>>713203824
>Death and dreams WERE meant to be linked
They are linked in the game, lorelet retard

>>713203942
With a *regime* change

>>713195245 (OP)
Why did Marika marry Radagon but Miquella condemn Trina to death?

>>713203943
Ignored. Blocked.
>>713204019
Yep.

>>713204194
> but Miquella condemn Trina to death?
Because he is a faggot, that's why

>>713204125
NOT FUCKING ENOUGH, RETARD. WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL AND SHIT. FUCK YOU.

What’s the actual point of an Elden Lord?

The god reforges the ring to suit their age, and they’re given godly power to do so, which is often used to force other people into doing what they’re told.

In lore Godfrey fights all of Marikas battles but it’s made abundantly clear that she didn’t NEED him to, she just wanted him to. It feels like a leftover version of some more classical fantasy setting Martin wrote

>>713203943
>she broke it
>no she shattered it
Um okay thanks for proving to me that you’re an autismo who can’t into semantics

who was in the right?

>>713203942
>but I do think Marika was the first to full tilt nihilist style smash it to pieces
It's not "nihilist" in anything.
For the Elden Ring to be passed to another host, it must be reforged, which is why every single retard saying muh Radagon wants to fix him, is fucking retarded. This is what Marika steals from the actual legitimate Goddess
>>713204325
You are too stupid to get it, but Trina, Ghostflame true color and purple flowers heavily connect dreams and death in ways you couldn't even grasp.

>>713203943
Leyndel is covered in ash because someone or something attempted to burn the tree before we did. It doesn’t imply the Ring was broken before.

>>713203943
>Radagon vs Marika narrative is some headcanon bullshit that was half assed by lorelets to rationalize the narrative 2 years ago and it only survives in the head of retards with no literacy
Marika is impaled while Radagon fights you. What the fuck does that imply?

>>713204446
it's kind of like the position of Pope, but intimately involved with God.
i think.

>>713204591
>You are too stupid to get it, but Trina, Ghostflame true color and purple flowers heavily connect dreams and death in ways you couldn't even grasp.
Everyone already knows that death and dreams are connected you pretentious loon. They’re saying they wanted more of it. They were always meant to be linked.

>>713204591
Radagon didn’t want the Ring to be reforged. He was for the current Order. Nothing about Radagon implies he wants what Marika wants. He wants what she originally wanted.

>>713204591
>For the Elden Ring to be passed to another host, it must be reforged
Maybe. Maybe not. The Elden Beast is a living being with its own decisions. It could simply hop into the most prospective Empyrean. For all we know Marika was a slave to it.

>>713195334
you right or their right?

>>713204591
There’s no evidence that anything nearly as cataclysmic as the shattering happened when Marika stole goodhood from the hornsent, or when (presumably) that god took over from the beast men and dragons. Wars and genocides followed, but it doesn’t compare. Marikas shattering is dissolving the fabric of reality. Like I said I think there’s a difference between the new regime altering the ring and Marika breaking it to pieces.

>>713203943
>Radagon is Marika, in intentions, objectives, beliefs and actual behaviour
This implies Marika is a lesbian, and that Radagon is a fag. Nope. Not believing it.

>>713195245 (OP)
I've played through the game twice I have no idea who was in the right, because these characters never talk to me nor do any other characters explain anything about them. Am I supposed to know what any of their motives are?

>>713205175
marika wants to ride the male mc's dick
radagon wants the female mc to ride his dick
they are total opposites but also the same

>>713205406
Sorry I meant Body Type 1 and Body Type 2

>>713204591
>posts an image from marketing that was never in the game

Reminder that the Elden Beast is literally a rip off of Lavos from Chrono Trigger. It’s a planetary parasite that consumes the life experiences of its host planet’s biosphere. There’s a reason why it’s shaped like an ancient dragon. There’s a reason why it can stand upright and use a sword like a person (something that the ancient dragons also do), and the heroes of the Order “just died”. Random citizens were told to lie down and die at the roots, if their time came.

It’s a death cult in another form, just like the old astrologers, but roots instead of rocks. People are shoving their essence into these sinister materials.

>>713205526
This
If lavos was an anime yggdrasil, you have Elden Ring.
Down to it guiding evolution to suit its own ends

>>713195245 (OP)
They're literally the same person. The game tells you this.

>>713205786
So is Marika post transition or pre transition?

>>713204597
No you retard. Leyndell is covered in ash because the Erdtree had burned long ago
This is what the Erdtree was >>713204591
Farum Azula portrays the actual filaments of grace, like strands of hair, strands that are also used both in base game and DLC (and Nightreign) to represent communion and spiral ascension.
Do you realize that the Elden Ring is not an ACTUAL ring but strands that become arcs of gold when "reforged".
>>713204672
>Marika is impaled while Radagon fights you.
No, Marika is Radagon and they fight together, play the game, retard
>>713204757
What more could it have you sperg? It already has a fuckload of material
>>713204847
>Radagon didn’t want the Ring to be reforged. He was for the current Order.
More illiterate headcanon bullshit
>>713204956
>Maybe. Maybe not. The Elden Beast is a living being with its own decisions.
The "Elden Beast" has no agency of its own and only exists in its form within the timespan of his boss fight. The Elden Beast is the Elden Ring regressed to his original form SPECIFICALLY due to Marika and Radagon Fundamentalism, Fundamentalism studied by both and that Marika even speaks of in her echoes
>For all we know Marika was a slave to it.
No, another headcanon. Lorelets watched Trina's quest and instantly applied it to Marika with zero thought
>>713205064
Yes there is in fact. The Eclipse, the Fall of Farum Azula itself, the ashes of Leyndell, the injury of Metyr and the Fallingstars all happened before Marika.
More specifically, considering the Sun Realm, Stormveil and Helphen was the main ruling empire, the Eclipse meant quite literally as the fall of the Sun is the actual equivalent to the burning of the Erdtree for the Golden Order
>>713205507
It's in game for those that have an IQ over 120 and can actually find it

>>713205957
>This is what the Erdtree was
*Elden Ring

>>713205526
>It’s a planetary parasite
Headcanon

>>713205957
sage

Man, I hate it when lorefags are incompetent and retarded.

>>713205865
I'm assuming they can be split and joined together. Regardless, Marika can have children and Radagon can impregnate women so they're not trannies.

>>713205475
You're clearly not a man of reason.

>the lore autist from rpg codex is here

>>713205526
The Elden Beast is not a parasite and the fact that retards like you tried to dumb down a far more complex and elegant narrative with "muh evil church led by bad alien" shows how Elden Ring filtered complete idiots
Elden Beast is accumulation of life and the space therein. It is quite literally space and stars, and the impact point of the falling stars are the same of the comets that created an hospitable planet for human life

>>713195245 (OP)
Marika is hot and barefoot so her.

>>713205526
3 years later, still zero evidence that the Elden Beast is a "parasite" with some evil agenda to exploit anything.
It's hilarious how everyone who fails to understand Elden Ring always goes for a theory that removes any kind of agency from Marika.

>>713205957
I’m still ignoring you, troll.

>>713206340
Nah it’s 100% a parasite.

You thinking it’s le good is hilarious.

>>713205526
Elden beast is the forest spirit from princess mononoke. There's no reason it's in the game other than it looks cool

>>713206760
its literally just another form of baby's first fan theory
>what if the big god of this universe.... was evil?!?

>>713206201
Have we ever actually seen Marika pregnant?

>>713206760
People are asked to die at the roots of the Erdtree like some sort of death cult. It’s not good. Heroes also “just die” and are buried the the roots. Corpses are used as fertilizer at various points in the game. It’s. Not. Good.

>>713205957
>considering the Sun Realm, Stormveil and Helphen was the main ruling empire
Jesus Christ you’re just spewing shit.

>>713206976
>People are asked to die at the roots of the Erdtree
Why? oh right no reason

>>713205957
You keep crying “headcanon” when that is exactly what you’re doing.

>>713205957
>The "Elden Beast" has no agency of its own and only exists in its form within the timespan of his boss fight. The Elden Beast is the Elden Ring regressed to his original form SPECIFICALLY due to Marika and Radagon Fundamentalism, Fundamentalism studied by both and that Marika even speaks of in her echoes
Oh look. More headcanon. Come back to me when you play the game.

>>713201051
Radagon is Marika's schizo split personality and they are completely opposed.
>>713201270
>The DLC makes it even more clear by showing how a God is ascended by being reborn after death with a Lord Consort,
Radagon did not even exist until well after Marika became a god.

>>713206195
It’s incredible isn’t it? He just keeps going. He’s probably a troll, though. They do this a lot. Repeat wrong lore until the thread dies. Makes me question how sad their life is.

>>713200868
>>713201995
They are opposing aspects of one person. The DLC shows another example of this with Miquella and Trina.

>>713204965
Were they confused about who's right or are we trying to figure out who's right?

>>713206976
no ones asked to die, stupid. its their burial practice
>did you know that when some religions die they get fed screaming to FIRE?. its not. good.
its not anything. the corpses fertilize the tree.

>>713206760
None of that removes Marika’s agency. If anything she is the one setting things up to end. She is arguably the true main character of the setting.

>>713206934
The elden beast is not evil.

>>713207537
>no ones asked to die, stupid. its their burial practice
They get called by the Erdtree, explicitly. If they get called to die, they die.

>>713205957
>the sun realm
Not this retarded faggot again

>>713195245 (OP)
Marika

>>713206976
No, people are buried at the roots so that their soul can return to the tree and then be reborn. Every culture treats their dead differently. Farum Azula is a giant mausoleum. The Golden Order lacks death and so new births are created through the Erdtree
You lack literacy, which is why you can only conceive the most low hanging fruit basic bitch plot points.
>>713207143
The fuck is that supposed to mean, you utter retard?
>>713207347
Everything I said is correct and the game literally states that the Elden Beast "later turned into the Elden Ring".
The only headcanon here is imagining the Elden Beast as some evil scheming manipulator behind all when it is presented uniquely as the current manifestation of the concept of Order
>>713207232
Nope

>>713206760
>>713206934
>>713207618
Miyazaki has made his “good” gods evil before. Marika is just another Gwyn who tried to extend her rule but then doubled down when they couldn’t. Her getting rid of death is no different from the curse of undeath, in terms of the consequences.

>>713207640
find the quote or stop shitting the thread up

>>713206258
Reason Type 2

>>713207747
>sets up retarded church
>has a dozen super babies and neglects all of them
>gets sad and smashes the seed of all life on the planet
>boo hoo I'm such a victim :(

>>713207752
Come back to me when you play the game. I only talk to people who are actually familiar with the lore. You’re not my equal. Sorry. Nothing you’ve posted is actually good or factual material. Oh well. Can’t always hope for equals to show up.

>>713207765
that's not in debate. but it has nothing to do with the beast being some kind of parasite

>>713207772
It’s said by two ghosts in Limgrave. I’m not playing the game for you. Come back to me when you’ve played the game. I’m not going to be your helpful adult, kid. You need to do your own research.

>>713207765
Gwyn was not evil, he literally killed himself out of love for the world. Marika was evil, and fucked everything up out of trauma and spite. The elden beast is just a beast and had no agenda beyond protecting the elden ring. The greater will is the demiurge and thus good because existence is good.

>>713207912
It is clearly a parasite if it sucks up runes to sustain itself through the roots of the Erdtree. Runes are life. You eventually become Numen, to Hero, to Lord. It’s a lead up. Greater sustenance.

I bet you think glintstone isn’t parasitic either. It is.

>>713208008
Gwyn was absolutely evil. He stalled the world because he didn’t want humans to get their time of day.

He also forced his son to be a woman. He also raped Priscilla. Priscilla is Gwyndolin’s mother. This was revealed in Dark Souls 3.

>>713208115
it's wrong because it should have been me

>>713208008
Marika wasn’t evil, though. Life existed before the Ring. It’s alien to the world. It didn’t kickstart life like so many believe, although it clearly guides life. Evolution is a big theme in this world. The beastmen weren’t originally intelligent, and they’re currently losing their intelligence.

>>713207375
>Radagon is Marika's schizo split personality and they are completely opposed.
Headcanon
>Radagon did not even exist until well after Marika became a god.
Marika doesn't become a God until the very end of the game
>>713207491
>They are opposing aspects of one person
Headcanon
>The DLC shows another example of this with Miquella and Trina.
Also headcanon
>>713207736
Lorelet retard
>>713207765
Elden Beast is not a parasite, it's the manifestation of Order, a bundle of the literal life in a single universal cosmos unified. It's both stated AND visually blatant, along the fact that it doesn't exist at the same time both as beast and Elden Ring.
Anyone trying to make it about some evil space slug is a lame faggot who needs to read more
>>713207853
Retard

>>713208252
>Elden Beast is not a parasite, it's the manifestation of Order
These aren’t mutually exclusive. Runes are still fed to it. It’s still feeding off of the life experience of the world. People are still sent to die at the roots.

>>713195334

>>713195245 (OP)
Yet another example of how fromsloppers completely ignore the canonical in game absolute man body that marika has and substitute it for their gooner fetishes.

>>713208252
>It's both stated AND visually blatant, along the fact that it doesn't exist at the same time both as beast and Elden Ring.
The Ring IS the Beast. They are one and the same. It didn’t turn itself into an object. The Elden Ring isn’t an object. It IS the Beast, and Marika IS host to it, in typical parasitic fashion.

>>713208037
>You need to do your own research

i already knew you were wrong about it, i was just hoping you'd prove it yourself.

"A proper death means returning to the Erdtree. Have patience. Until the time comes... and the roots call to you"

this clearly refers to a post mortem practice. "roots calling for you" being a flowery term for dying, akin to "seeing the pearly gates." you're not dragged to real gates then killed. in summary, you're spouting fancanon seeing malice where there is none. erdtree burial means the burying of a corpse at the erdtree.

>>713208310
its not feeding off of it, it is it

>>713195245 (OP)
I need to see Marika take a huge gilded shit

>>713208252
its irritating that you're correctly against team parasite considering everything else that sloughs out of your mouth are the ramblings of an insane person.

>>713208392
Nope. You’re not lore literate. Don’t talk to me again. Go back and play the game.

(The corpses in the catacombs were clearly alive before they died. They are crawling and clinging to the roots. They’re clumping together. Life is an orgy.)

Environmental storytelling. Learn it.

“To refuse the Erdtree's call to return, to live within Death... Sickening."

>>713208115
Gwyn was terrified of the dark and had good reason to be. He enthralled humanity to the first flame, yes, but out of percieved necessity, not malice. He gave up most of his own family and his own life to preserve the first flame forever. Dark souls 2 and especially 3 make clear this was a mistake, but one born of the best intentions.
>He also raped Priscilla. Priscilla is Gwyndolin’s mother.
Unsubstantiated nonsense. DS3 even shows one of Priscilla's descendents, and she has draconic qualities, not serpentine ones

>>713208672
sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating your already disproven point doesnt unretard you

>>713208664
Hey, retard. The alternative is that it’s symbiotic, not parasitic. They aren’t all that different beyond benefit for the host, which isn’t explicitly laid out for the sake of lolmystery or lolambiguity.

Everything points to it being parasitic or at least nefariously symbiotic. Most would call it parasitic regardless.

You also need to consider that Metyr and life on the planet predates the arrival of the Beast/Ring. What does this imply? It is alien to the world.

>>713208310
>These aren’t mutually exclusive.
Yes they are. Elden Beast literally brought Life, as concept of power, and spread it through its various evolutions and manifestations
>Runes are still fed to it.
No. You don't understand what Elden Ring is about. Each society buries or burns the dead in different ways because the passing of spirits is very important and determines births and lives in the cycle.
The Tree is conveying souls through roots for those to be born again, similarly to how Malenia generated Millicent or how the Golden Crucible generated scales, feathers and knots
>>713208391
>The Ring IS the Beast. They are one and the same. It didn’t turn itself into an object. The Elden Ring isn’t an object. It IS the Beast,
YET the game states the Elden Beast turned itself into the Elden Ring, which also explains why it must regress to become Elden Beast again and debunks anyone headcanoning some scheming plot on EB
>>713208664
Everything I said is 100% correct

>>713208218
No, life began with the ring. That's why destroying it in the frenzied flame ending kills the world. The ring does define the rules of life, but can be modified to change those rules (as Marika foolishly did), and has no will of its own other than the desire to exist.

>>713195245 (OP)
There is no coherent lore or narrative.
There is no correct interpretation.

>>713208252
>Marika doesn't become a God until the very end of the game
Utterly delusional. Marika is DEAD at the end of the game.
>Headcanon
Nope, it's very explicit. In fact about the only certain thing we know about the relationship between marika and radagon is that it's intrinsically adversarial.

>>713207736
The Sun Realm is quite clearly the DLC area anon, he is correct.
Grace is the reflection of sunlight on the sea, and the original Tree avatars are Sunflowers

>>713209183
the only thing she's dead is sexy

>>713208679
Yorshka is the younger sister of Gwyndolin, Gwyn’s lastborn. Yorshka and Gwyndolin share the same mother, but not the same father. Priscilla is the daughter of Seath and Velka, Gwyn’s (likely) wife, so associated with humans for her “sin” of out of wedlock romance.

Whether Gwyn raped Priscilla is not really affirmable, but she is indeed the mother of Gwyndolin and Yorshka.

Snakes are also seen as imperfect dragons, and Gwyndolin’s grandfather is a dragon.

>>713208391
>in typical parasitic fashion.
It's not a parasite. It only gives and takes nothing

>>713208823
Come back to me when you play the game. Sorry.

>>713208946
>Elden Beast literally brought Life
It didn’t. Metyr predates it. Glintstone is a natural phenomenon in the cosmos.

>>713208252
Oh this schizo again

>>713208946
Runes are alien to the world. They also look like irises, or slices of tree branches.
>YET the game states the Elden Beast turned itself into the Elden Ring
It became the Ring. Nothing says it isn’t also the Beast. You see the Elden Ring inside Radagon.

>>713201995
No you dumb faggot, you didn't play the game. Marika gave birth to Radagon who then used Celestial Dew to create the Elden Beast.

>>713209056
>No, life began with the ring
No, it didn’t. This was confirmed in the dlc. It was assumed in the base game. Metyr predates the Beast. Life is naturally blue, not yellow.

>>713209183
>Utterly delusional. Marika is DEAD at the end of the game.
No. Marika is dead and reborn. Dying is a necessary step of ascending to become Goddess, something Marika is not because she is a usurper who stole the grace of the legitimate Goddess. Enir-Ilim shows carrying the goddenss in a funerary rite, ritual that Marika disrupted
>explicit
The only thing explicit is that lorelets will make up any random shit to avoid actually paying attention. No, Radagon and Marika are not enemies and it's never stated anywhere
Marika quite literally states that he is not yet a God, and then shatters both for Radagon to merge with her.

>>713209250
It absolutely takes. It’s fed through the roots. Minor Erdtrees are fed corpses.

I’m also just going to ask. Are you a child on the internet or something? Or are you just stupid? This is all laid out.

>>713205526
The Elden Beast is literally the origin of intelligent life.

>>713195334
/thread

>>713209535
>No. Marika is dead and reborn
She’s literally a burnt out stone head at the end of the game. She’s dead anon. She’s not a transcendent form of rock person like Azur or Lusat.

>>713209223
>>>713209223
>Yorshka is the younger sister of Gwyndolin
No she isn't. Gwyndolin is the last son of Gwyn and his unnamed wife. If Gwyndolin was born of Priscilla, his ass would have been in the painting.
>Priscilla is the daughter of Seath and Velka
No, she's the daughter of seath and gwenevere, gwyndolin's sister.
>Snakes are also seen as imperfect dragons
And yet Yorshka maintains draconic qualities.

>>713209583
Nope. You keep ignoring lore. Metyr is older than the Beast. Life is naturally blue. Glintstone is a cosmic thing. It’s all a nod to how all life comes from stardust and how we all return to the earth, in the end.

The yellow stars are something else.

>>713196793
The entire central point of their dynamic is that while Marika was trying to shatter the Elden Ring Radagon was trying to mend it. They couldn't be more opposed if they tried.

>>713195334
That would be "on" the right.

>>713209214
No, it's the reflection of the erdtree on the sea.

>>713208679
>He enthralled humanity to the first flame, yes, but out of percieved necessity, not malice.
Maybe, but he sure as hell had no problem screwing over humanity at every turn, including erasing their contributions to the ancient dragon war from history

>>713209558
Is the Earth a parasite that feeds on corpses, anon? Should we blow it up so that us Earthlings are finally free?

>>713197284
Was it selfcest?

>>713209684
Keep getting the lore wrong. Yorshka is the daughter of Priscilla and Gwyndolin is the lastborn of Gwyn. They’re also explicit siblings. Cope. It’s all laid out and you’re just salty.

>>713209558
The people fed through the roots are reincarnated, not eaten. Also the erdtree(s) are not the elden beast.
>This is all laid out.
You misread it because you are a spic

>>713209804
Nature is absolutely alive in ER. It even competes against itself, like a cancer.

>>713209649
nta but the ending LITERALLY shows you putting her head back on and then becoming her consort, are you stupid?

There is no story to fully resolve.
There are only incomplete fragments of stories they attempted to fit together but ran out of time trying to resolve.

It's okay to accept this.
All the stupid little details you've been tracing.
They go nowhere.
Nothing makes sense at the end of those threads.
Nothing is supported and nothing fully fits everything together.
You are getting lost in headcanon.

The story is incomplete, and they hide that behind fragmented atmospheric storytelling.

I'm not saying they've never succeeded at this.
Obviously Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne have real narratives and the little hints and mysteries pay off, and provide implicit resolution and interpretation of world events.

This does not apply to Dark Souls 2 or 3 or Elden Ring.
These are incomplete games with incomplete stories.
Finishing the games was more important than fully resolving whatever stories they wanted to fit in.
They needed to finish the games and make money.
They took what stories they had to support the levels and content they had and tacked them on.
They are held together with a glue of ambiguity and curiousity, but there is no substance there.
There is no secret to find out, and their never was, because they are incomplete.

You are chasing ghosts.
Please learn to see the difference between the positive and negative assertion here.
It does sometimes work and they create a great complete story.
It does sometimes not work and they just slap things together.

>>713209882
>The people fed through the roots are reincarnated, not eaten.
If they get selected to. The age of plenty came to an end.

>>713209963
Yes. Yes you are stupid.

>>713209471
The elden star (which held the elden ring) was sent by the greater will. Metyr, the GWs herald, was sent to the earth to guide the barren world which would now have life. Unfortunately, she was injured upon landing, and lost her connection to the divine creator.

>>713197531
this appears to be unsauceable

>>713210094
Why do you keep trolling? She was injured because she was attacked with the Fingerslayer blade. It’s why her flesh looks the same as the one Ranni kills.

>>713209313
Read the post
Elden Beast brought life as concept of power, life able to be traded and accumulated with runes, "giving life his fullest brilliance", that's the meaning of that sentence.
>>713209398
Not runes, grace. Runes are made of grace, and grace resides within an individual eyes. The guidance of grace, and the control the Two Fingers can have, are also results of this.
The Frenzy is also the same
>>713209408
What the fuck is this headcanon?
Marika CREATED Radagon, and the Elden Beast existed way before either of them. Are you the schizo from /erg/ that said Marika created Elden Beast?
>>713209649
>She’s literally a burnt out stone head
No, she is a shadow spirit merged to Radagon
>>713209979
>There is no story
There is, but it filters those with no literacy
>>713209741
The actual dynamic is that Marika and Radagon seek the origins of the Erdtree and merge together after shattering to ascend after founding Fundamentalism.

>>713209535
>Dying is a necessary step of ascending to become Goddess,
It isn't. Miquella's path of purification was to become WORTHY of divinity, not capable of it.
>Marika quite literally states that he is not yet a God,
Yes, she's openly mocking him, and how he had failed (at that point) to become the dominant personality. But when Marika shattered the ring, she gravely injured herself, and incurred the wrath of the elden beast, and the two cooperated to imprison her.

>>713210218
>The actual dynamic is that Marika and Radagon seek the origins of the Erdtree and merge together after shattering to ascend after founding Fundamentalism.
Marika created the Erdtree. Why would she seek the origins of it?

>>713209820
>Yorshka is the daughter of Priscilla and Gwyndolin is the lastborn of Gwyn
I said nothing to the contrary. But they had different mothers. Gwyndolin is Pricilla's uncle and Yorshka's great uncle. The premise of your claims is insanity. Gwyn considered Pricilla's draconic features so destestable that he banished her to another dimension. Why would he lay with her?

>>713209923
How are you too stupid to understand the cycle of life

>>713210218
>life able to be traded and accumulated with runes
You can already do this with glintstone.

>>713210435
Gwyndolin is not Priscilla’s uncle. He is her child. The Japanese community just assumes this, too.

>>713210456
How are you too stupid to understand that life in ER is a fractured being?

>>713210579
>How are you too stupid to understand that life in ER is a fractured being?
He says without a hint of irony.

>>713210435
He improvised Priscilla for her power to kill the gods.

The entire Japanese community is quite aware that Priscilla is Gwyndolin’s mother.

https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/vugexa/gwyndolin_is_priscillas_son_jpn_translations/

Whether he raped Priscilla or fell in love with her, is unknown.

If he hated dragons why would he have Seath as his top advisor?

>>713197834
>like Malenia vs Radahn,
As far as I'm concerned Malenia won, but that's not really due to Malenia's own skill it's just due to the fact that she has an eldritch demon inside her and that's pretty much impossible to beat. Without the rot Radahn beats Malenia every day of the week.

>>713210642
Life IRL doesn’t entertain shit like human sacrifice. Nature is alive too in asoiaf. It’s not irl, as far as we know, and it even appears to be “an overly sophisticated blind idiot” (see shit like the laryngeal nerve in giraffes or just blind cave fish), a la Azathoth.

>>713210258
>It isn't.
It is
>Miquella's path of purification
Is irrelevant to Marika stealing grace from the actual goddess that is dead and covered in a funerary shroud.
>Yes, she's openly mocking him,
Again, headcanon. Her words are quite clearly implying to what exactly happens in game, them merging after shattering both.
>>713210317
>Marika created the Erdtree. Why would she seek the origins of it?
Because she communed with a God through stolen grace to obtain it. Marika's desire to selve deep is what allows her to become a true Goddess in the end and a vessel of Elden Beast. The law of Casuality and Regression study how things come from the divine and spread into multiple and then converge back together to ascend to the divine.
Marika and Radagon studied sorcery and incantations (both originated from the Greater Will in different forms), exactly to investigate the Elden Ring and become one

>>713209793
Gwyn shared a piece of his own soul with the kings of new londo for their service. People assume that his sealing of the ringed city was to hide the past, but we have no other evidence to suggest he generally disliked or feared humans, besides Kaathe saying so, and he's hardly reliable. If anything, the ringed city just seems to be some kind of temporal bomb shelter where the religion he invented to venerate the first flame could persist even if the rest of the world fell apart.

>>713210780
She really didn’t. She was seen to be at her losing edge before she embraced the Rot to take out Radahn in one hit. It also shows how *powerful* three slot spells are, and that HP bars don’t exist in lore (seriously, Radahn got stabbed once).

Can someone give a qrd on Melina.

>>713210851
>It’s not irl

>>713198075
Strangely enough the Radagon dogs seem more associated with the Carians/Nox than they do with Radagon himself consider we find two more Radagon dogs in Siofra and Moonlight Altar.

>>713209963
She's just a statue now. You are "consort" to a literal vessel. Luckily you get like 3 or 4 side hoes

>>713210931
Scrapped content: the girl.

>>713210983
>You can still fuck her but she can't nag you anymore

>>713200868
They are two people fighting for control in one body. This is literally shown to you first hand when you finish the game, which you obviously never did.

>>713210851
schizophrenia

>>713210870
>them merging after shattering both.
How did the Sculptor know they were the same person then before the Shattering occurred?

>>713210934
Are you perhaps a Christian? There’s a certain poetic satisfaction to pantheism/panentheism, I will admit, but as with Einstein’s own beliefs on the matter, I’m one to assume that nature won’t intervene on our behalf. Ever. It’s too big for that. Elden Ring is a game (not that religion isn’t inherently a game of make believe) of a world, so it (nature) entertains and intervenes. Glintstone (the barest minimum of life in this universe) is even alive, shooting out like fireflies.

>>713211017
Shiiiieeeetttt

>>713210931
Miyazaki's failed attempt to implement the kind of companion characters that Legend of Zelda has.

>>713208672
All corpses were alive before they died.

>>713211103
What? “Life doesn’t work in right angles”.

This isn’t schizophrenia it’s basic sense when it comes to causality.

You wouldn’t come across a statue of Buddha having gay sex with Jesus unless something intelligent entertained it. The 21st century would not randomly come into being without first forming the necessary life to produce it / such an infrastructure.

>>713211132
When I act on my behalf, nature acts on my behalf

>>713195334
fpbp

I swear to fucking christ almighty threads like this is started by a schizo so he could shit out his schizo delusions. Its the same topic, same posts, and same fucking arguments.

>>713211226
People don’t die in suspiciously sexual positions like that.

>>713210172
>Why do you keep trolling?
Stop talking like a faggot redditor
>She was injured because she was attacked with the Fingerslayer blade
That's total nonsense. Her "wound" is a birthing canal, not an actual injury. She can't commune with the GW anymore because she is "broken and abandoned", and according from Ymir, has been from the start.

Off-model bimbo Marika is not hot, and is infact disgusting.

>>713211284
Cool. That’s still just you.

>>713211295
It’s a troll. He repeats wrong lore just to rile up people.

“Dude. Marika is still alive!” should affirm that.

>>713210929
>She really didn’t. She was seen to be at her losing edge before she embraced the Rot to take out Radahn in one hit.
This is pretty much literally what I said, Malenia herself didn't win against Radahn. The god of rot within Malenia won against Radahn. Compare the state of Radahn and Malenia when we meet them in game. Radahn is a ravenous madman with a rotting body and no feet who eats the corpses of his own men. Malenia on the other hand seems no different from how she looked before the fight. But again, this is not due to Malenia's own skill it's due to the god of rot. The fight was rigged against Radahn from the start.

>>713211421
I have no complaints about giving her bigger tits so long as the areola are still small

I know this is an Elden Ring thread, but I'm going to take a moment to once again state that the protagonist of Bloodborne is actually the old man seen at the beginning of the game, and the blood transfusion process was essentially the creation of a new body for him to inhabit. The selectable player classes don't signify different backgrounds, but rather the progression of one person's life.

>Milquetoast - Ordinary, happy upbringing.
The player first started out with a normal upbringing, born to the Fishing Hamlet.
>Lone Survivor - Lone survivor of a lost hamlet.
The Hamlet had found Kos, and was subsequently invaded and butchered by Byrgenwerth.
>Troubled Childhood - Suffered misfortune in youth
The player was present for these events, which was obviously unfortunate.
>Violent Past - Terribly violent past. Rash, but stronger for it.
Obviously these events were violent, but they carried on nevertheless.
>Professional - Born specialist, fit for sleuthing or academia
Following this, the player actually joined with Byrgenwerth in order to learn more about the Blood and Eldritch Truth.
>Military Veteran - Experienced in war. A soldier with strength and skill.
They became a Hunter working under Gherman and Maria.
>Noble Scion - Scion to a respectable line with faith in your pedigree.
They betrayed their fellows in Byrgenwerth and brought the Blood to Cainhurst, as explained elsewhere in the game.
>Cruel Fate - Faced terrible hardships, but now confident in your purpose
In revenge, Cainhurst itself was invaded and wiped out.
>Waste of Skin - You are nothing. Talentless. You shouldn't have been born
At the end of their life, the player is reduced to an old man with nothing, necessitating the transfusion from the start of the game.

>>713211295
Why do you need to swear to it? It's pretty obvious isn't it? It's been going on for more than 2 years.

>>713211479
Take notice of several key details in the game that support this idea - First, the notes present in the player's starting operating room. The seek Paleblood note, obviously, must be a product of somebody with significant knowledge, but foreigners such as (supposedly) yourself or Gilbert should have no idea what this is. Furthermore, later on when you return to the room, on your operating table can be found an invitation to Cainhurst directly addressed to the player - We know from the spare invitation that we deliver to Alfred, that these need not be named, yet the player's is.

Moreover, the player possesses knowledge in the game that they shouldn't have access to. When first speaking to Alfred, you can ask him about Byrgenwerth. Yet by this point in the game, nothing has yet referenced them, meaning this prompting came only from the player's own mind, which as a foreigner should not be possible.

>>713211417
She’s covered in wounds retard. And yes the Fingerslayer blade was used on her, which is what broke her. Only one other two finger model shares the same flesh - the one Ranni killed, and it even looks like it’s melting.

God you people don’t play these games properly. You just play it mindlessly or something.

>>713211426
>Cool. That’s still just you.
It goes far beyond just an individual person. It's not an accident that factory lines resemble ribosomes or that cities have similarities with CPUs

>>713210870
>Is irrelevant to Marika stealing grace from the actual goddess that is dead and covered in a funerary shroud.
What she stole was the elden ring. Those thin gossamer strands are what the elden ring was shown to look like in the original elden ring story trailer. And when Marika lifts it up at the gate, we hear the Beast roar.
>Again, headcanon.
No, it's reading comprehension. She's insulting and mocking him. By the way, they are and always were one person; an entire quest is focused on this one point of lore.

>>713210493
Not really, no. You can trasfer sprites through glintstone, the sorcerers do, but that's very different from the actual power giving life brilliance
>>713211046
>They are two people fighting for control in one body.
They aren't though. That's another basic bitch plot headcanoned by the same people who believe the space parasite narrative
Both Marika and Radagon have two separate bodies until the end, where they willingly merge to ascend as a divine being, something they yearn for
>>713211114
Because the sculptor rendered Radagon's likeness and found out his body was a larval tear of Marika

>>713209729
I said "intelligent" life, which you clearly are not part of.

>>713211628
>Both Marika and Radagon have two separate bodies until the end
Where did you learn this?

>>713211037
Better have a thick rubber

>>713211623
>No, it's reading comprehension. She's insulting and mocking him.
You are wrong and the game proves you wrong
>By the way, they are and always were one person
Also wrong

>>713209979
Dark Souls 2 is fine storywise, though most lore commentators don't get it. As a consequence, Dark Souls 3 story also gets maligned. But with proper interpretation, they are both dandy and link up perfectly with each other and Dark Souls 1.

>>713210908
Oh yeah sure he's not evil, he just sealed away the original humans, sealed the power of their knights, and hijacked their culture to fit his own flawe idea which in the long run made the world unlivable.

>>713211604
>missing the point this hard
Anon, magic in 99.99% of fiction comes across as some sort of AI. It’s far too artificially considerate and convenient, having far too many variables and parameters. It’s more advanced than anything in sci-fi. Probably higher dimensional to account for things like conservation of mass and spontaneous generations.

Because again. A statue of Buddha and Jesus having gay sex would not come into being without an intelligence. There are some things even mathematical odds just cannot enforce. ‘Life doesn’t work in right angles’, etc.

This may sound like an over-analysis, but it’s quite distinct once you realize all of the implications. Disturbing, even.

>>713211324
Yeah they do.

>>713211628
>Because the sculptor rendered Radagon's likeness and found out his body was a larval tear of Marika
How would the Sculptor be able to deduce that? Even if he somehow learned Radagon was from a Larval Tear why would that lead to the hidden message that "Radagon is Marika?" when they're clearly different entities.

What do you mean Radagon is a Larval Tear? Shouldn't he be a perfect imitation of Marika then, not a starkly different design from the moment we learn of him (Male/RedHair). Most Larval Tears we interact with perfectly mimic other things.

>>713211628
>You can trasfer sprites through glintstone, the sorcerers do, but that's very different from the actual power giving life brilliance
Nope. Life exists with or without the Elden Ring. This is affirmed.

>>713211637
Metyr isn’t intelligent? Those giant titans in the ground probably predate the Beast too. There are aliens out there.

>>713210739
Then who is Yorshka's father.

>>713210739
>The entire Japanese community is quite wrong about Priscilla being Gwyndolin’s mother.
>If he hated dragons why would he have Seath as his top advisor?
Because he had no other choice. Because he lacked the defining feature of the dragons. Because he was a hateful traitor to his kin and he and Gwyn were both strategically and philisophically aligned.

>>713211680
When I played the game and found out Marika tarnished the player while Radagon was in Raya Lucaria, or when I found out Radagon scarseal and soreseal, two eyes separate fron Marika's

>>713209313
i thought you were done replying to me

This “Gwyn is not evil” fag, or “Marika IS Radagon” fag, is literally retarded eh.

>>713212035
We just don’t know.

>>713212028
>Life exists with or without the Elden Ring.
This is not about life existing, dumbass.
It's about the Elden Ring "giving life its fullest brilliance, binding Life into an Order.
See, you and most don't actually understand the metaphysics of Elden Ring.

Imagine giving a numerical value to life, and with it the ability to trade and collect it. That's what runes are.

>>713212035
me

>>713211823
I didn't say he actually made the right choice, I'm saying he did what he thought was the only choice he had. If he truly hated or feared humans, he could have destroyed them while they were weak and he was strong. Instead, he based the future of the world on them succeeding him and his kin

>>713211995
You are responding to a literal moron. I hope you realize that.

>>713197284
>Marika is Radagon
I still think it was a waste that they didn't do anything with this gameplay wise. They could've added some secret ending that you get by doing certain actions like using the dispel spell at Radagon's statue. Make it obscure as fuck and let us fish for the clues. Of course you'd have the brainded dataminers uncover everything but if you can get someone to do it blind, even if it's a bunch of obsessive freaks it'd be all worth it.

>>713212028
>Nope. Life exists with or without the Elden Ring. This is affirmed.
Based on what? Metyr's arrival with the Elden Beast is what prompted the development of life on ER's planet. We're told this directly through the Alabaster/Onyx Lords.

>>713212280
That Order is flawed, retard. Removing Death IS death if a kind. It’s why the centipedes (a symbol of death and stagnation in From works) in this world are GOLD.

>>713209751
I thought there would be one of you but you have to understand it's just for the joke anon

>>713211592
>She’s covered in wounds retard
No, she's covered in finger growths
>And yes the Fingerslayer blade was used on her, which is what broke her.
There is no evidence for this at all. Especially given this would mean she could communicate with the GW until recently, which we know is not true.

>>713212403
>Metyr's arrival with the Elden Beast
We can’t assume they arrived together. We know life away from the Erd is blue, not yellow, and life exists in its own forms on its own just fine. See the astrologers and the ancestral followers.

>>713212035
There's literally no reason to discount her own explanation of her background.

>>713211749
>literally denying "Radagon is Marika"
lmao

>>713212174
Not that fag, but Marika is in fact Radagon.

They were never two separate entities that fused or whatever, unless you believe jar theory.

>>713212335
I like to watch the wheels spin. Lots of time loreschizos bring up some actually kind of interesting facts from mythology while trying to justify their head cannon.

>>713212174
No arguments detected. One of them is literally the most explicit bits of lore ever told in any From game

>>713212079
>Marika tarnished the player while Radagon was in Raya Lucaria
What made you think these two thinks happened at separate times?

>>713212473
>No, she's covered in finger growths
Her skin is literally warped and rippled like a holes-phobia person’s nightmare.
>There is no evidence for this at all
Yes, there is. What is said to injure the Fingers? The Fingerslayer blade. What has the same gross ass grey skin? The Fingers Ranni killed using it.

There IS evidence to imply it. You can deny it’s not enough evidence, but it’s still there, and the Nox surely attacked something. The Fingerslayer blade is even made by the corpse of a god the same way Radagon was turned into a sword by the Beast.

>>713212665
*at the same time I meant to say woopsie

>>713212402
Videogames with esoteric and occult elements need more Rebis endings where you and a love interest merge into a "perfect" being. Elden Ring was kind of disappointing that it didn't have it. One particularly disappointing game that lacked it was Slay the Princess, where the idea and implication is presented multiple times but never played out as a Ending route.

>>713212506
>We can’t assume they arrived together.
Why? The descriptions from both Elden Stars and Metyr's remembrance aren't contradictory.

>See the astrologers and the ancestral followers.
Astrologers and Ancestral Followers both post-date the arrival of Metyr and the Elden Beast.

>>713212561
And yet they’re two completely different personalities. They’re not literally the same person. St. Trina is also distinct from Miquella.

>>713212782
>The descriptions from both Elden Stars and Metyr's remembrance aren't contradictory.
Not the point. We know life exists elsewhere in the universe. Metyr could very well have landed much earlier.

>>713212527
Couldn't she just calling Gwyndolin her (conveniently not blood-related) onii-chan?

>>713202004
DLC is mid honestly anymore once I kill messmer I consider it done it’s just not worth playing again and yeah the “lore” is ass

I will choose to believe everything in the thread cause it sounds cool.
>>713211479
>>713211560
This is also interesting.

>>713212784
St. Trina is also Miquella though.

>>713212681
>Her skin is literally warped and rippled
It's called a "fingerprint"
>What has the same gross ass grey skin?
All the fingers have gross grey skin
>and the Nox surely attacked something.
No, they didn't. The story about the GW punishing them is a mythological explanation for why they're underground. The cities were clearly not actually burried, but constructed directly in the walls, floor, and cielings of the caves.

>>713212784
But St Trina quite clearly came from Miquella's Psyche.

I think people get too literal with it. I always assumed it was a Zeus/Athena sort of thing. An Ideal of theirs that manifested out of their mind into an actual living being. For Marika it was the ideal incarnation of a Lord of the Golden Order once her first Husband was gone, for Miquella it was a compassionate girl who could help soothe the suffering of others.

>>713212782
>Astrologers and Ancestral Followers both post-date the arrival of Metyr and the Elden Beast.
Astrologers? Maybe. Ancestral Followers? No. The Ancestral Followers live underground because of something forged to kill the Fingers. They’re tribal degenerates forced to etch out a living without the aid of the Ring.

The Ring / Erdtree is probably a nod to the Goldilocks zone of sustainable life. You have to be in its (the warmth of the Sun / Erdtree) radius. The sunflowers point to the Erdtree the same way they’re meant to point to the Sun. The Erdtree usurped the Sun’s position.

>>713212784
They are two aspects of one person.

>>713212870
>We know life exists elsewhere in the universe.
Yes, but regardless it all comes from the same source, that is the Greater Will, or even further the One Great. The Elden Ring is itself just one part of a larger whole.

>>713212990
They’re two separate personalities.

>>713213018
No. The Two Fingers that aren’t marked by the blade still have fur/hair. They’re not as dark or grey.

>>713213039
Cool. They’re still separate personalities. Play. The. Game.

>>713213018
The huge missing chasm of Leyndell was probably once part of the Eternal City laying at the base of the Erdtree, that one at least was likely put underground.

>>713212506
>We know life away from the Erd is blue, not yellow
The golden order and the erdtree are yellow. The elden ring, as shown by the elden beast, contains all colors. The current state of life is informed by the deliberate manipulation by Marika, the hornsent, and the ancient dragons. The elden beast boss fight also makes clear that the GW is creator of innumerable worlds. Does that mean that shit like astel is also born of the GW's creation? Not nessisarily, but we can't rule it out. And we can say for sure that Metyr herself was.

>>713213078
Yes, two different personalities. It’s a split personality.

>>713213018
>No, they didn't
Yes they did. It’s said on numerous items. The Blade was their sin. What was it used for? To kill or hurt something.
>The cities were clearly not actually burried, but constructed directly in the walls, floor, and cielings of the caves.
Yes, they were, except you see the cities also knocked over, and Raya Lucaria has the same (similar) architecture. The moon of Nokstella has Raya Lucarian imagery on it. They were a shared culture at one point. The entire region of Liurnia is wracked with geographical/gravitational ruin, and is sibling, while the academy is standing tall, with the pillar raising it seen in the underground lake of rot.

The Nox were buried while Raya Lucaria stayed above ground. They shunned the moon because the moon is also heralded as the fall of the Eternal.

In the west we have the soul and the body. In the east they have the soul, the body, and the mind. Radagon and Marika share the same body but have different souls and minds. Devin and Darian are meant to clue you in on how this works, they share the same soul but have different minds and bodies.

>>713195245 (OP)
whaddya mean who WAS in the right?
Radagon is still ON the right, retard.

>>713213049
The Ring affects everything, whether or not some groups are in the good grace of the Golden Order. The AF aren't separate to the system just because they live underground.

>>713213257
It's being erroded into the sea either as a consequence of Marika accidentally an entire province of the lands between, or being rotted away by Godwyn's corpse, or both.

>>713213127
>Yes, but regardless it all comes from the same source, that is the Greater Will
Everything comes from the Greater Will. Everything. The One Great IS the Greater Will, fractured. Everyone is a part of this fracture.

But life is blue. Ymir even says we are of stardust. Perhaps yellow stars affirm it into shape, but it’s clear that it’s not the sole or only shape taken.

The Elden Ring is just a yellow star. The likelihood of there being other yellow stars, or Rings, is good.

>>713212293
As beings of Dark, Humans are eternal, while lords, being beings of Fire, are finite. Gwyn twisted human culture so that the majority would revere him, his family and his memory as Gods and continue kindling the same Fire that was holding them back.

>>713213416
>The elden ring, as shown by the elden beast, contains all colors
Nah it’s just a mix of primeval and Elden.

>>713213491
Nah, it’s planetary. There should be other Elden Rings out there. Yellow stars are mentioned by Seluvis.

>>713213134
It's a static personality encapsulated by Marika/Miquella's thoughts. Radagon is Marika and St Trina is Miquella. However it's never outright stated the opposite is true. It can be argued that it's not the case that Marika is Radagon or Miquella is St Trina.

If I imagine a character, come up with traits and goal for them, draw them out on paper, that character isn't really it's own individual it's an extension of myself. It is ultimately a reflection of myself in that moment. That's why when Marika decides to shatter the Elden Ring and Miquella abandons his body and compassion, Radagon and St Trina reject those decisions, because it's their designated character to do so.

>>713213134
>They’re two separate personalities.
They're not separate. Trina wants you to kill Miquella, because Miquella himself knows the burden of godhood and would have wished to die rather than become one, which is why he excised the part of himself that wished that.

As in, Trina's will is itself just Miquella's will. The same is true of Marika and Radagon.

In other words, it's a schizo episode. Cognitive dissonance made manifest.

>>713213491
>The AF aren't separate to the system just because they live underground
They are. Life is seen to work differently away from the Erdtree. Blue, not yellow. This is even said on numerous items. It’s basic lore at this point, in case you’re new to this. It’s the same with the mountaintops. If you’re far enough away you won’t be hit by the golden rays of the Order.

>>713213704
So you're saying it's a Big Blaine/Little Blaine situation?

>>713213704
>They're not separate
One is in a cave the other isn’t.

Please stop being stupid.

>>713213425
>The Blade was their sin.
The blade itself, its construction. It was never said to have actually been used. In fact everything about the Nox culture emphasizes that their various machinations always failed to actually materialize, until Ranni at least
>except you see the cities also knocked over
Only in the nameless city which was ravaged by Astel
>The moon of Nokstella has Raya Lucarian imagery on it. They were a shared culture at one point.
The Carians were successors of the ancient Nox, not coinhabitants.

>>713213830
If you pushed your imaginary friend down a well, are you trapped in a well? If you're trapped in a well can your imaginary friend leave and go on living it's life?

>>713213752
The erdtree is not the elden ring. Yes, Marika's order, by design, is not all encompasing. But all (terrestrial) life shares origin in the elden ring.

>>713213752
There are places identified outside the Lands Between that have no part of the Golden Order. The Lands Between are essentially virtual.

>>713213578
>But life is blue.
Explain to me the distinction here.
>Our powers draw upon the powers embedded in glintstone, but what is the nature of such power?

>Glintstone is the amber of the cosmos, golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life and houses its vitality, while Glintstone contains residual life.

>And thus, the vitality of the stars.

>It should not be forgotten that glintstone sorcery is the study of the stars and the life therein. A fact lost on most sorcerers, these days...

>Blue glintstone is life.
>Therefore life is blue.
>However golden amber is also vitality and ancient life.
>Therefore gold is also life.

>>713213491
— Remembrance of the Regal Ancestral Spirit, hewn into the Erdtree

— Ancestral spirits exist as a phenomenon beyond the purview of the Erdtree.

You just assume you bring the Erdtree’s influence along with you. Marika is your patron, after all.

>>713214045
Yes. There are distinctions to be made in the blue and yellow. It’s left ambiguous if one takes precedence over the other, or if one is better than the other.

>>713213649
Having seen oolacile, he had a damned compelling reason to "hold them back".

>>713204446
The Elden Lord is basically the God’s strongest champion.
Marika chose Godfrey as Elden Lord because he was the strongest of that era and when he defeated all her enemies he lost the grace of gold and became the first tarnished, after that Radagon her true love and other half become Elden Lord.
Miquella chose Radahn because he was arguably the strongest of the demigods and had a kind soul.
You become Elden Lord by sheer strength, defeating everything in your path.
In return you get to pound prime fertility goddess pussy and rule over the world, not a bad deal.

>>713214194
A shame Melina wasn't developed to be the arbiter of the "Perfect Order" ending because as it stands the Yellow Life's waifu kinda sucks compared to the Blue Life's waifu

>>713214056
Erdtree =/= Elden Ring. The Erdtree is just Marika.

>>713214014
>>713214038
Not all terrestrial originates with the Ring. We can’t actually affirm this. It’s left quite ambiguous. You slay the Ring, and life is still seen to work, so it can’t be intrinsically tied to life, especially since the ancestral followers can exist away from it. Metyr’s existence complicates things too.

>>713213578
One quibble, the "one great", is just a lie that Hyetta spouts appealing to a false future of the dissolution of individual existence into some kind of spiritual unification, like EoE's tang. But we know that the frenzied flame actually will just kill everything forever

>>713214279
My wife is the best though.

>>713214304
Yes and no. They’re clearly linked. The shattering of the Ring causes the Erdtree to panic and send out seeds of itself. It is clearly fed on runes/life, the same way the minor Erdtree’s are.

It’s all connected. But the Erdtree is still some sort of symbiotic intermediary. This schizophrenic lifestyle adding confusion is also fitting for the setting.

>>713213669
One quibble, Miquella gave up his love, not his compassion

>>713212402
>They could've added some secret ending that you get by doing certain actions like using the dispel spell at Radagon's statue
You mean Goldmask's ending?

>>713197505
LEMUUUUUURIAAAAAAAAAA—

>>713214368
It’s a lie riddled with truth. It’s a nod to the Big Bang, and this want for all things to melt back into One Great Crunch. The One Great is meant to go along with the Big Bang. One Great Big Bang. She’s using word play.

>>713214216
What happened to Oolacile was long after Gwyn became kindling.

>>713213704
>Trina wants you to kill Miquella, because Miquella himself knows the burden of godhood and would have wished to die rather than become one, which is why he excised the part of himself that wished that
Bingo. Also why he gave up his fear and his "vacillation". He was quite literally locking in. Becoming the perfect god even if it meant destroying most of his personality.

>>713214368
Frenzied Flame is an asshole, but what she's talking about with the One Great is 100% true, corroborated by Ymir. They both independently reached the same conclusions about the universe, it must be true.

>>713213704
Yes. It’s all schizophrenic. But not all split personalities agree or get along. Two sets of consciousnesses are also in two different places. Marika and Radagon are also opposed.

Twins are also said to “share a soul”.

>>713214216
Oolacile happened BECAUSE the Dark is being left to fester instead of flowing naturally.

can someone explain the whole 'these two people are the same' bit? is it just meant to be taken metaphysically?
where was this theoretical radagon when marika was first beginning her journey as a shaman saint in tthe shadow lands? how did she have children with hourah loux but also have children with renalla ?

>>713214332
>We can’t actually affirm this.
Melina warns us that the frenzied flame ending will result in the end of all life. If you follow through, that's exactly what happens.
>especially since the ancestral followers can exist away from it.
They exist separate from the golden order, not the elden ring. In fact they are associated with the inigmatic crucible, which was a previous iteration of the erdtree and golden order with different properties

>>713195245 (OP)
No one is right, everyone is wrong.
ER may or may not be yet another in the list of occult farces like Halo or Mass Effect.

>>713214650
What Ymir says is also what Sellen says. They’re not as insane as people think. It’s just the mad physics of their world they’re describing. Life is even seen to clump back together. Both Sellen and the Hornsent are making use of this law / Law of Regression.

>>713214417
No, I mean that the Erdtree is LITERALLY Marika, and Marika is the host of the Elden Ring, meaning the Erdtree hosts the Elden Ring. The tree and the ring aren't the same thing, but through Marika they are connected.

Like 3 hours ago I warned you fags to ignore the shitposter and his terrible headcanons. Now you’re all miserable and you have no one to blame but yourseles

>>713214650
Ymir suggests nothing about the "one great"

>>713214717
>Melina warns us that the frenzied flame ending will result in the end of all life. If you follow through, that's exactly what happens.
On that planet, yes. But that’s not really my point. I’m saying life began with the fracture of the One Great (Big Bang), not the Elden Beast/Ring’s arrival. Life is a lot older than the formation of the planet.

>>713214665
No, it happened because Kaathe encouraged the humans there to fuck with Dark

>>713214867
There's no evidence Kaathe had any involvement in Oolacile.

>>713214717
>They exist separate from the golden order, not the elden ring
They’re largely the same thing. But also not.
>In fact they are associated with the inigmatic crucible, which was a previous iteration of the erdtree and golden order with different properties
Irrelevant. It’s still the current form the Ring uses to influence life. But far enough away it doesn’t. It can’t.

>>713214846
Oh yeah for sure. Hence me saying that the elden ring is the source of terrestrial life, and by that I mean on just this planet. There are certainly other elden rings, or functional equivalents on other worlds. Also aliens not bound to any planet's rules, at least some of which were directly created by the GW.

>>713214791
>Long ago, we began as stardust, born of a great rupture far across the skies. We, too, are children of the Greater Will. Is that not divine? Is that not sublime? ...and yet, none can fathom its implications, its utter brilliance!

This is the same thing she was describing.

>>713214867
Yes, because he's trying to push the Dark along as is nature. Unfortunately men are dumb and numbed by the Gods' propaganda and see Dark as something to fuck with.

>>713211479
>>713211560
Quite a schemester, a true magus that one.

>>713214782
>"I told you guys if you don't want to see the chimp flinging shit you shouldn't go to the zoo!"

I'm here for the shit flinging, retard. If people wanted to ignore shitposters they wouldn't go on 4chan and they sure as fuck wouldn't go into Elden Ring lore threads.

>>713214781
>In fact they are associated with the inigmatic crucible, which was a previous iteration of the erdtree and golden order with different properties
I’m not so sure. The Erdtree appears to be one of the most schizophrenic things in the setting. It is represented by avatars and tree spirits and, yes, Marika (the minor Erdtree incantation also reinforces this), but I don’t think it’s a literally aware thing, and it wouldn’t need to be aware, being a tree (this should reinforce your angle of Marika being the Erdtree, if we are to assume a tree isn’t self aware - she would be the one to shape it).

>>713215107
>signalis
blergh

>>713215038
Examine the miracle he describes, but backwards. We would be "stardust". IE, not alive, as Hyetta implies

>>713215007
What life predates the arrival of the Elden Ring on the planet?

>>713215075
The Serpents are cast-outs from the previous order of the Everlasting Dragons who see opportunity in playing mankind's lack of natural balance against them. They profit as the Abyss swallows all.

>>713215216
>Nonsensical, insubstantial lore carried by visuals and characters more than the writing!?
>in MY Elden Ring thread!?

>>713215202
I don't mean that the erdtree is literally just an altered form of a previous great tree, but that there were multiple great trees over the eons, one of which was the crucible, and each of them had their own properties and influence as defined by the ideals and intentions of those that cultivated them. The only odd thing is the scadutree, but even From themselves don't know what the fuck the scadutree is

>>713211560
Also, consider more closely what happens in the vision at the start of the game - A beast arises from pooled blood in the operating room, but the moment it touches you it bursts into flame. Bloodflame is an ability unique to Cainhurst.

>>713215245
Probably nothing. A barren world. Then the ER fell on it, and Metyr to guide the fledgling world.

>>713197531
Why does her skin look so dried up and why does Miquella look sickly?

>>713215202
It isn't. We see from Enir Ilim that golden trees can be cultivated from honorable or 'graceful' dead, similar to how putrescence forms from the amalgamation of unclean death

Those trees taken to the logical extreme are the 'seed' of the Erdtree, the red blood or 'primordial matter' that became it. Imbued with the Elden Ring and an insane amount of gold/grace stolen from the corpses of Enir Ilim

A tarnished dies and drops a little golden twig. Several dozen jars makes a minor Erdtree. A colossal amount of death makes an Erdtree

At the same time it is using concepts from several other faiths in the world. The Hornsents crucible worship/tutelary deities, the shamans and grafting/merging with trees, Gelmir and ancient giant Hex magic through sacrifice, Farum Azula and the embedding of honored dead into the structure of the central structure, and attempts to contact and control spirits from Rauh.

The Erdtree is rightly called the (most current) 'culmination of perfection', and 'Life itself'

>>713201239
You know what that looks like?
It looks like an abstract spin on a fucking Xel'Naga.

>>713215007
I’m more convinced that the Ring came later and helped along evolution, rather than being the sole source of life on the planet, personally.

Regardless of whether you think the Ring is sinister or not, it may have been responsible for a proper path for life to take, while the residual life Sellen speaks of is a lot less so affirmed, or much more so wild. Not sure.

I’m saying this because the sap of the Erdtree is likely residual life repurposed (there’s blue sap…) through its roots. The whole two ambers metaphor Sellen speaks of. Glintstone sorcerers are working closer to the silicon source, while the Golden Order is working with something that was biologically cultivated.

>>713215202
As we see in the Realm of Shadow, Marika's people have a culture of tree-veneration where their matriarchs literally fuse with trees. It's just in her case, the tree's growth was fueled by the divine energy inside of her.

Even Miquella was replicating this tradition with the Haligtree.

>>713215631
Nothing about the Hornsent is honorable. They even built their city using corpses. It is arguably the most barbaric culture in the entire game.

Marika just hijacked their great tree project, making her own straight (if crooked) tree, and preventing them from making their spiral shaped one, which is what the crucible was originally meant to resemble - “a normalized crucible current”. Oddly spirals are associated with the primeval current as well.

>>713215345
Nope, before the Fire, there was only great trees and everlasting dragons. Only after the Fire other things started to appear.

>>713215631
>Elden Ring lore thread
>zero discussion of Nightreign
It's impossible to piece together, right? Like nobody will ever know what the deal with the giant tree man was.

>>713215890
>Oddly spirals are associated with the primeval current as well.
>Oddly

>>713215890
>Nothing about the Hornsent is honorable. They even built their city using corpses. It is arguably the most barbaric culture in the entire game.
Neither corpse usage nor literal barbarianism are synonymous with dishonorable behavior, you know.

>>713215890
Different kind of spiral though. The "current" is the spiral arms of a galaxy. The progressive, forward moving spiral of the hornsent is well, the shape of a horn, but also, two of them intertwining, DNA. And while the hornsent were brutal, in their defense, Enir Ilim was made from their own.

>>713201220
Yes it is. When you see her in the tree she has been stripped of grace just like Morgott after you beat him and he's a shadow of himself. Same with Marika.

>>713215465
>>713215631
>>713215727
I’m saying I don’t believe Marika is literally the Erdtree when a tree isn’t a conscious being to begin with - but this fact alone CAN be argued as an excuse to assume she is more or less the tree, acting as its guiding consciousness.

It also makes sense why Radagon could barricade the interior of the tree, being a half of Marika. But it’s also possible that the tree is simply acting out of survival. It sent out the golden seeds for their reason (it thought its time had come).

I’m also pointing out that there’s like 2-3 different “faces” of the Erdtree, which is a weird aspect. It’s also sometimes pointed out that tree spirits are somewhat shaped like the Beast. Not sure on that one.

>>713215913
The lore says straight up the Serpents are failed Dragons that were cast out.
Also humans, and consequently Giants, were obviously 'there' before the First Flame was seized by Gwyn and Co. Your reading is clearly faulty and retarded.

>>713216176
It’s actually based on dna. The spiral I mean. The current is based on past notions of the Milky Way galaxy being a starry river of sorts. The primeval current is quite literally their galaxy. Nebulae, etc.

>>713215245
Only thing confirmed is Metyr coming before Elden Star. Possibly the Alabaster and Onyx lords, and possibly the ancient dragons

>>713215687
Certainly possible. The Elden Ring was a star before it fell on the lands between, so it probably always had a role in the old system, just not within reach of mortals. The god of the dragons might not have even been the vessel for it, but a representative for it, an envoy

>>713215890
In part yeah. There's some evidence I think that they used to be less awful, but at least after discovering the Shamans ability they became obsessive and evil.
At least at first they seemed to want to imitate Rauh, one of the most balanced and serene cultures we know of, but certainly in the state we see them, and with Enir Ilim as evidence, they lost their minds in the godly sauce and thought themselves better than everyone, leading to their worlds tower of Babel

>>713215935
Possible Titan. Evidence that the really old giants are still around, and that grace can in fact restore them too if Marika so chooses.
The titan we see is probably the reborn form of the Nightlord, now imbued with the grace of gold from the soul of the nightfarers.
The bottomless abyss of darkness that was within him is quelled, and grace acts as a sort of reward/peace offering in my mind
Something like "Hey we know that was some bullshit, here's a second chance in an immortal body with all the power to make your own life as you see fit. The Erdtree aint all bad"

At the same time it might imply the Nightlord was always an Old God, and just pulled the trigger on the Lands Between in contempt for the shattering

>>713215913
Fire is clearly a domain of Dragons and came with them.

>>713216293
There’s not enough lore to confirm, but, I always assumed that the giant arrowhead sword found in the ruins of star falls past is what those giant titans in the ground (Caelid and the mountaintops) had used, and they were the ‘old gods’ spoken of. The name (star falls past) is also eerily similar to a scrapped bit of lore from the earlier version of the base game - the founding rain of stars was originally named… Goliath’s rain of stars… and the fire golems dotted around the Rauh type ruins in both the base game and the dlc use fire magic and blue magic.

This suggests to me that the original ancient astrologer may have been a giant. Or that is what they were originally going for. Not sure.

The third eye amulets on Azur’s and Lusat’s foreheads is also made of green verdigris, which is associated with Rauh and the fire giants. A bit suspicious.

>>713216293
>leading to their worlds tower of Babel
Or perhaps, given what happened to them and their attitude, their Second Temple.

>>713216193
Bit like christianity if you think of it. The tree is the Father, Radagon the Son, and Marika the Spirit
Three beings, three faces, one divinity

Certainly it's possible they act as the consciousness of the tree, but I don't think it needs one. Marika can already command it through the connection with it and the Elden Ring. The tree really just served to absorb the honored dead and refine new blessings from them to heal those under it. Our flasks of tears are all that remains of its old bounty

Grace seems controlled by Marika psychologically, so I don't think the tree would be needed for that side of the equation either.
But the Shaman grandmother does point to some merging with the tree, and Marika and Radagon are inside a pillar of light inside the door of the Erdtree, which might imply a spiritual realm of some sort as well

>>713216590
>The third eye amulets on Azur’s and Lusat’s foreheads is also made of green verdigris,
I'm pretty sure it's just supposed to be Astel eyes

>>713215890
>>713215972
>>713216272
I think the spiral is a symbol for life in general, even medicine, in real life. The staff of the healer was a staff with twisting serpents. Probably a spiral however sophisticated the life may be.

>>713216716
That’s Lusat’s brain. It is indeed a lot like Astel’s, if more blue and cat-like.

But both Azur and Lusat are wearing this amulet depicting the opening of the third eye. Both of them. You see them on their crowns, when worn, so too.

They’re clearly based on those mummies from Sekiro. The mummy monks. Or the Sokushinbutsu. Revered corpse sages - or “living Buddhas”.

>>713216727
>The staff of the healer was a staff with twisting serpents.
That's not a normal spiral, that is its own symbol.

>>713216176
>>713216272
I never noticed the dna thing

>>713216970
Interesting. Thinking about it, making something out of bronze specifically to mark the passage of time with its oxidation makes sense

>>713216590
> but, I always assumed that the giant arrowhead sword found in the ruins of star falls past is what those giant titans in the ground (Caelid and the mountaintops) had used
Agreed 100%. It's almost like the devs knew we were desperate for something on them and gave us the forges and their items to help us piece things together

I believe Nameless Singer has the best video so far on the connection between the old giants and the astrologers. She posits that they were either the same culture as, or cohabitated in Rauh. The best evidence for this is the Forge of the Giants sitting on Rauh/black-stone pillars, and the 1.0 name for Founding Rain of Stars being called Goliath's Rain of Stars, Goliath being a 'giant' in the bible who fought King David in his youth

>>713216641
Yeah Hornsent have a lot of old testament feel to them. Marika coming in with her golden tree that heals people could be read as Jesus being a part of the jewish faith group, but eventually spurned by and spurning them in turn. Because they made the burden on the people harder than they should have, and created rules and regulations for things that didn't need them. They became cruel while cultivating their divinity, then an 'empyrean' comes in and tells them how it's done, and then demonstrates it, all while they scramble to stamp it out

I feel like the Hornsent could be both first and second temple, as well as Babel depending on how you read it. The altars of light and shadow in old ruins seem newer than Rauh, but Older than Enir Ilim. To me this points to proto Hornsent society

The Fell God even acts as their satan figure. Perhaps the ancient giants did something bad to the Hornsent, and that led to their demonization

Oh almost forgot, the spiral design of pillars is called 'Solomonic' so the first/second temple idea is literally built in too

>we finally get to see miquella in the dlc
>he looks like some ugly british kid who says the word footie
right so THIS is the beauty that's enchanted so many people. uh huh

>>713217067
Yeah but I can see it being a possible inspiration. It’s also snakes. Same as how Anaxagoras was probably (one of) the bug inspirations for glintstone. An old Greek philosopher sage who started the idea of panspermia; that life is like a seed that lands on planets. He also thought that stars were stone, guessed the nature of meteors, thought the universe was its own greater will (the Nous), etc.

>>713217248
>right so THIS is the beauty that's enchanted so many people. uh huh
It be six a bong sir!
Anyone has that one "scottish pokemon femMC IRL" screencap

>>713195245 (OP)
>who was in the right?
How are we supposed to know when we never hear a word uttered by either character, and the lore is extremely cryptic? The question couldn’t be more uninteresting or low stakes.

>>713217248
He's still cute but he was cuter
>As an aside, I miss the Malenia-Radahn shipping

>>713217239
I’m pretty sure there are murals and statues showcasing smaller figures carrying the bodies of larger figures, somewhere around Enir-Ilim. I find this interesting since I’m somewhat partially convinced that Hornsent incantations (including their dancing lions) are like plays, or acts, performances, etc, of some previous legend, or civilization, that they revere. Not too sure though.

>>713216590
>>713217239
Carians go all the way back to the time of the giants too, so maybe this is why Rennala is so freakishly tall? Giant blood? Does this extend to Radahn? The models for Azur/Lusat are also elongated.

>>713217239
You might notice the entirety of the Lands Between is sitting on those pillars. The whole thing is a construction of these Giants.

>>713217248
The whole passive emotion control thing pulls a lot of weight

>>713217239
I’m still confused about the fell god. The removal of its influence (ripping its face out of their chests) is what the trolls did, so is this what caused them to shrink into ape-ish trolls? De-evolution like with the beastmen (I’m assuming this happened because the loss of their god removed their intelligence or ability to be a great civilization?) when Placidusax lost his god? Did the fell god’s influence shrink the titans (those stupidly massive giant corpses that look nothing like the fire giants) into the fire giants? Why do they keep shrinking?

>>713217586
>Carians go all the way back to the time of the giants too,
?

>>713217676
My friend thinks the Lands is a giant petrified tree trunk… and that those giant ants are actually normal sized ants… and we’re all just really tiny people… and those dead giants are just normal sized people…

>>713217469
I haven't heard it phrased that way, but it fits perfectly! The Hornsent are imitating some from Rauh and their coexistence with ancestor spirits and sprites, spirit magic. And flowing water, such as the Blind Swordsman and the Dancer in Blue, the spirit of a river who helped him. The Hornsent revere the Swordsman, their warriors armor is likely modeled after him

While Rauh could create more spirits, similar to the Ancestral Followers, the Hornsent evidently couldn't or didn't care too, preferring instead to cultivate their own divinity by trying to channel these spirits into their horns, to invoke old school style incantations, just plain ask a god or spirit to do it for you

>>713217586
Likely so, I always figured it was Radagon's influence, but the Carians may indeed have giant blood. It's never stated though. Rennala is freaking huge for being a 'normal', though possibly numen woman.
The Sword of Night and Flame also implies an old alliance. I envision the Carians as the leaders of the human side of the group, and the Giants as the other. Old forge golems in the DLC have red glintstone on their backs as a power source, indicating knowledge of glintstone existed for manufacturing purposes

>>713217676
This is my favorite tinfoil theory! The entire land is artificial. I reckon a meteor impact or volcanic eruption, possibly both wiped out the old titans, and buried most of the Divine Tower builders culture.
The Lands Between were Eden, burned by a sword of fire and flooded with magma in some cataclysm of the past

>>713217834
The trolls rebelled against the giants because the giants treated them badly, they always looked like this. It was an Aztec empire situation. Then Marika enslaved them because she's a bitch.

>>713217882
The fire giants at least! Not sure about the super big ones. The ancient astrologers were peers to the fire giants, and the Carian ancestral blade affirms that the Carians were amongst those ancient astrologers. The spell Comet Azur is also on it. It might imply Azur was around that long.

>>713201220
>thats not how she looks like
esl moment

>>713217970
Yeah I’m still weirded out by the holes in their chests and stomachs though. This is their weirdest trait.

Marika’s mistreatment of the trolls is likely why they preferred to serve the Carians. They were even given knight status.

>>713217239
>>713217945
Too many biblical lines, it's not really Christian or Abrahamic themed.

>>713217676
>>713217945
A few of the Divine Towers really do look like someone enormous fashioned them professionally out of clay or sculpted stone. Look at their bases.

>>713217834
Shrinking and diminishing seems to be some sort of rule species encounter. I think in this world, life is getting less complex/specialized as time goes on. Everything began as one and is splintering out into infinity.
I think it's the Giant Crusher weapon that says 'man has grown feeble compared to his forebears'
And in 1.0, those with smaller stature were seen to have less of a blessing of grace.
Then there are demihumans like Boc who are also growing smaller

I feel like it could be connected to the Erdtree not producing enough sap/blessing to provide for everyone, tied up in maintaining the Golden Order as it is, leaving less for the smaller folk

The titans becoming Giants might have been normal evolution. Teylew the golem was said to be the smallest of his kind, and thus ridiculed. But the largest titans/giants would have had nowhere to hide when the cataclysm came and annihilated them. It's possible the smaller ones survived the event, and so only the small ones reproduced and continued their lineage

The strongest and largest die young without heirs, while the small and meek pass by and continue theirs

>>713218135
Leyndell is one of the most on the nose analogies for Constantinople in fiction.

>>713201270
this is hilarious, are you the same retard saying that Maliketh actually belongs to the GEQ and Marika stole him somehow?

>annihilate every hornsent
>this is seen as a crime

All fucking hornsent and omen must fucking hang

>>713218271
One of, but the primary direction of the entire mess is still something increasingly and decidedly unwholesome.

>>713218220
Evolution and de-evolution are at play for sure. It might be a progressively worse and worse scenario. I’m still unsure whether Demi-humans came after or before humans. If they came after, then that’s extremely concerning. They may also be a missing link between men and beastmen.

>>713218271
I know, it's wonderful isn't it?

>>713218181
Residue from the cataclysm/magma flood, or of the divine tower trees from Nightreign

in my playthrough marika was the tarnished's mom and i was sent to liberate her from the golden order
so her backstory is that radagon was grafted onto her through the secret rite
and killing him gave my tarnished access to her
and he set the bitch on fire
he set everything on fire
none of it matters when everything burns

>>713201270
Radagon literally tries to put the Elden Ring back together.
He puts magic thorns outside the tree's door to prevent anyone from breaking the system.
He works with the Elden Beast to stop you from becoming Marika's consort and taking over the system.

The game openly says that Marika was seditious but Radagon was a loyalist.

>>713195245 (OP)
>thumbnail Radagon looks like a barbarian
>full picture is a bishie
lol

>>713218363
Marika/Messmer is Israel
Hornsent are Palestinians

>>713218376
I disagree, the game as a whole focuses squarely on rejection of nihilism and the ever present hope of redemption and deliverance. The only objectionable writing I find is that we are forced to kill Miquella for no good reason

Anyone else notice a striking parallel with the sleeping (alive) giantess Albinauric Philia, and those sleeping (quite dead) giant women on their thrones in the Nox cities? Were they all Albinauric? Is that the irony of their plight on the surface? That they were once their own culture or civilization underground before becoming second or even third rate surfacer citizens? Are the Nox underground even true Nox? I was told it’s possible that they are merely playing pretend, or imitating a culture that no longer exists. That those silver tears are Nox struggling to take shape. They’re falling apart.

>>713208252
>Marika doesn't become a God until the very end of the game
Marika was a goddess from the time she betrayed the Hornsent and claimed divinity for herself at the Gates.
She's our Goddess even in her basically catatonic state in 4/6 endings. With Ranni becoming our Goddess in her ending, and the Flame of Frenzy basically turning us into a God in its ending.
That is preferable to her, compared to being an unwilling puppet of the Two Fingers.

>>713218635
Well… we know that Sellians were once ‘Nightfolk’, but no more, and there’s also an empty throne in their town… implying they no longer needed whatever it was…

If the Nightfolk “once bled silver”, then it is possible that Sellians were albinauric or silver tears or something related… at some point…

Maybe silver tears have sexual urges too and simply have relations with normals if they manage to escape to the surface.

Did she deserve it?

Why are there so many retards who still think Elden Ring is lovecraftian and the Gods are outer-space entities?

>>713218220
Yep. It’s all shrinking. Everything is destined to Midge. Reminds me of how life is destined to become Crab.

>>713218551
The dlc.. Will never be forgiven
Crucible lore and Rauh history: Perfection
Hornsent lore and Messmers history: Perfection
Marika's tragic backstory: A little odd at times, but creates an understandable reason for every action she has ever taken

meanwhile..
Radahn: tbf he didnt have much to go with in the first place
Miquella: The worst character assassination I have every played through
It actually killed a part of me for a while. I will never not be mad that the golden genius, the one who managed to invent a tool that does something even Marika and the Elden Ring can't, remove the influence of the gods, including the Frenzied Flame which according to actual lore melts your god damn soul into nothing

It should have been Godwyn. It should have been a resurrection plot like was implied. Kill Radahn to restart fate and the stars movement to allow for an eclipse.
And Miquella should have been allowed to make his own ending like what was originally planned in the base game.

Cut content Miquella doesn't mention anything in the dlc at fucking all
It feels like they made a Hornsent and Messmer/Erdtree history dlc and shoved Miquella into it for some reason

Did she deserve it??

>>713210976
Soifra was actively being explored by people from the overworld. Radagon sending some hounds down there makes sense because he wants every bit of knowledge he can get a hand on.

>>713218949
She might be one of the few innocent characters in the game.
All she's guilty of is loving with all her heart

>>713218551
How truly Christian to miss just about everything but personal narrative in most blissful way possible.
There is no one to redeem because that's not how redemption works, no one to deliver because there's no need and no hope here, because it's all just IRL occult messages, and not for anyone here to boot.
All these characters are overdue permanent erasure, and in a manner of speaking don't exist, it's all just broken toys and delusions concealing an increasingly worse situation elsewhere, or worse, a yet another attempt at supplication or imposition of ideas.

>the cosmic horror god futzing with Lands Between just said fuck it and left long ago
>everyone talks about the greater will like it’s still there

So is it really gone, or did it punish Marika and split, or is it hiding in a shrub

>>713218878
Isn’t it more of a ‘you CAN interpret them as such, but it’s not the only interpretation’ scenario? For all the Lovecraftian angles, there’s also a lot of irl gnostic angles too. They can be shared.

I do find the ‘color out of space’ take funny, though. Imagine if instead of bailing it stayed around for a while.

can someone explain what the fuck happened at the end of nightreign? the erdtree created the giant nightlord?

>>713218973
The Moonlight Altar, however, is a far different matter evading such an explanation.

>>713218878
arent most gods inter-dimensional/outer-space entities?

>>713218878
Because modern discourse is infested with materialists and materialists can only Intuit things based on other things they've seen. They know everyone liked the lovecraftian elements of Bloodborne, that it's Heckin Epic when le creepy space monster makes le the character go insane, and they know it's a form of tribal signaling to state that they detected scary space aliens in the work of fiction. It's a materialist flocking call, it is a desperate plea from a hylic soul for something resembling communion.

I guarantee you Miyazaki thought “haha, funny glowing tree” when he came up with the Erdtree, because he probably read Tolkien, and definitely Berserk. L

But then you have lore autists who go “OMG THE KABBALAH THE TREE OF LIFE OMMMMGGGGGG”. What if Miyazaki didn’t even think of that?

>>713212079
Marika created the Tarnished probably before she split Radagon off.
She created the Tarnished when the Fingers made her banish Godfrey and she set up her plan for him to return in the future to defeat the Golden Order. This was ostensibly shortly after he defeated the last giant.
Radagon was probably made after this, because he already had the curse of the giants marking his appearance.
Radagon was a different body of her for a long time, but they'd merged into one body well before the Shattering, from their dialog and the reveal that the artist saw them switch bodies in real time.

radagon.
marika had a literal woman moment

>>713218878
blame old lore videos. People still think Ranni does anything about outer gods

>>713219032
The Greater Will isn't an outer god, it's the creator, per Ymir and implied by Hyetta.
Metyr is a daughter of it and among the first lifeforms on the planet.
The outer gods are more like kami from shintoism. Nature and elemetal spirits embodying concepts and emotional states.

Nobody knows about the GW, but I like to think it's still there, but realized how it fucked up by interacting with the world and creating imbalance, so stopped interacting. Or it wants its creation to act on its own.
Either way *something* activates Metyr's microcosm when she starts to die, and I doubt it's her since she's dying. GW stepping in to teleport its daughter away at the last second

>>713219172
Is it like Anno and NGE over again?

>>713219143
Moonlit altar is a strange place. Why do I need to go underground to get there? It seems a tad bit redundant, especially with all the masterfully carved mountain tunnels and elevators and teleporting stones...

All those dead nameless headless demigods Marika had killed, and then to forget them, placed them in giant moving mausoleums that have a huge bell and they walk everywhere? Toss them in a bin lady, why are they even there (besides to duplicate remembrances)

>>713219202
Aren’t the Tarnished just an officialized band of those deprived of Grace? You’d think ‘tarnished’ would be a general term for someone who got booted out from the Erdtree club.

>>713219256
>The outer gods are more like kami from shintoism.
No, they're the aspects of Greater Will itself. Hence why it's Greater.

>>713218363
>>this is seen as a crime
where? the only ones opposed to that are the hornsent themselves

>>713219342
Marika had at least 100+ children. Don’t let the limited number of named demigods fool you. Woman was a massive whore extraordinaire. You know I’m right too.

>>713219172
Grrm invented the Erdtree, the only thing Miyazaki and co gave grrm was the idea of the main mcguffin being a rune that's split into smaller runes as the catalyst for the state of the world

Miyazaki has stated before the release of the game that he found the idea of the Erdtree brilliant as the main symbol of life in the games world. He compared it to the First Flame, saying that the flame wasn't a perfect analogy or symbol, but the Erdtree, as something both embodying the state of the world is perfect as it is something that is alive. It was born and one day will die, just like all living/mortal things

>>713202032
Pick a side and refuse to compromise. For me? It's Radagon. Marika's just a whore who seduced him with her lies.

>>713195245 (OP)
Is that Zelda and Ganon

>>713219256
Sometimes I think the ‘greater will’ is just a cope for all the bad shit space sends our way. “Someone or something HAD to do it, right? RIGHT? We’re not just unlucky? Right? It was a bastard out in space??”.

>>713202867
The Ring is an embodiment of the Greater Will's system for governing the Lands Between.
It doesn't exist independently of that as a constant natural object.
If a different god took over, like the Frenzied Flame, the ring would be destroyed because the Greater Will would lose influence.
The Greater Will fucked off a long time ago and Metyr, the Fingers, and the Elden Beast were running the show basically blind.

Marika wanted to break their entire system from the inside, but failed to totally succeed, instead shattering the ring to pieces that could still be reassembled.

>>713219445
Do you think George knows of the tree of life, or the Kabbalah? He probably does.

>>713219342
If you missed it, the player is one of those.

>>713219357
The Scarlet Rot is its discarded cosmic AIDS. It doesn’t want it back.

What if the Greater Will doesn’t even notice us, just like Azathoth doesn’t even notice us. It doesn’t care about anything. It’s supremely stupid in its omnipotence. Like a human not caring about its own cells.

>>713203943
>Leyndell is still covered in ashes of when the sacred tree had burned.
Almost certainly wrong.
Leyndell is covered in ashes because it has been the site of multiple siege attempts over the course of the Shattering War, at the very least.
Characters that are extremely ancient never say anything about there ever being a previous World Tree that burnt down after the Capital was established. Maybe far, far before then, before Marika was even born, there was another Erdtree that grew and was burnt in time, but that would have happened so long ago as to be irrelevant for the story.
The Greattree in item descriptions is a well known misleading translation.

>>713219663
Nah. The rot is its continuous experience. It's all just one increasingly insane entity recycling itself to accomplish... something. Maybe it's just dying, or maybe it's about to die so it tries in its last death throes to muster a solution to is woes.

>>713195245 (OP)
I'm subconsciously a misogynist, so my gut instinct is to say Radagon

>>713219734
It works. Evolution is already like this.

>>713219734
Azathoth is neither unaware, nor stupid, nor all that uncaring.

>>713219507
I think that's the beauty of it's design. A golden ring of light around a black abyss. The 'light' of faith around the unknown
All we can be sure of is that souls and life exist, and that is magic enough already

In universe Metyr talked to it at least once according to the finger staff. But it could also be dead. There's no way to know. Kind of like Ranni says, the fear, doubt, and lonliness of the night reaches even the great beyond

>>713219587
Beyond doubt. The lore for asoiaf, while silly at times, shows a discreet but large reservoir of knowledge about world religions and mysticism. He is also on record as loving to world build, and having world built, you get to exotic wikipedia pages after a while

It doesn't hurt that Kabbalah is a pretty mainstream topic these days with new age spirituality and such

>>713219865
Yeah well Lovecraft is a dick and he called it ‘that blind idiot god’ for a reason.

>>713219886
>mainstream
Only publicly curated data. Random plebs will not be allowed anywhere near actual occult.

>>713219886
>In universe Metyr talked to it at least once
Yeah well she could be a mental nut case just like Ymir. Like Sellen ascribing personalities to rock people.

>>713219924
That's not a simple title, and he very much didn't finish writing Azathoth.
Actual situation is a bit more complicated.

>>713219942
In truth, it's just that which is considered 'occult' shifts away from the mainstream. There's nothing new nor unknown under the sun.

>>713219791
>The Greattree in item descriptions is a well known misleading translation.
It works. These games are religious, and the fans will start baseless cult theories just like irl religion. Heretical. Doesn’t matter how strong or stupid it is. People will still believe. This is how shit like Islam and Christianity came to be. One big fight over canon.

>>713204194
Marika needed a powerful warrior to lead her armies against Caria. So she created one that contained the knowledge and power of the Golden Order's magic. This was after her plan with Godfrey was set up, so she played a trick on the Fingers and divested herself of her feelings of loyalty towards them, and put them all into her 'lesser' half, Radagon.
Miquella had a powerful warrior, but internally was conflicted with his willingness to go through with becoming a God and controlling the world. St. Trina was the summation of his empathy and desire to shut out the world and rest. Stuff he had to cast off in order to take the next step.

>>713219658
Explain

>>713220026
No he is clearly a drooling retard at the centre of all existence. He is so stupid flutes don’t wake him up.

>>713220141
All falsehood, occult isn't considered or not, it's hidden data. Some things become "known" (not neccesarily), some never will no matter what.
>There's nothing new nor unknown under the sun.
This isn't how reality works, that's just impotence and inability to create.

>>713205526
This is retarded and based on nothing.
The Golden Order doesn't need normalfag souls to power itself, its greater than any individual normal person by nature.

>>713220316
That assumes certain assumptions on souls.

>>713220316
Cope. Lavos is female and so is the Beast.

>>713218921
>Miquella: The worst character assassination I have every played through
No he's great, we're just given absolutely no reason at all to oppose him except selfish greed.

>the dark moon is described as occult
>the occult is a synonym on arcane, esoteric, etc
Why the fuck did they even make arcane a stat when magic is meant to be nebulous and mysterious, hence “magic”, to begin with? Raya Lucaria is a mystery school

>>713219143
It's a place important to his children, pretty sure there's even gazebos/whatever for each of his kids

>>713207765
That is wrong.
Getting rid of Death is something she did very early on, and for a certain amount of time, it all worked out for her. Unlike Gwyn, the move to undeath was early, and was something she intended on from the start, instead of a panicking scheme she came up with in the twilight of her era.
The issue was the Erdtree outlasted its natural lifespan, it seems, and started to slowly stop bearing fruit/dew. This eventually resulted in a world where people had to go to the tree to be absorbed and reborn, until eventually even that ceased.

But while Gwyn created undeath and hallowing to fuck over humanity, Marika's undeath was an accident of her age lasting too long and eventually dryrotting under her feet.

>>713205526
So what, it's just Celestials from Marvel over and over again?
>>713209583
This doesn't contradict his post. One can make tools to suit purposes.

>>713219424
Nah, the overwhelming majority of those were godwyn's many generations of descendants, Marika only had like 10 kids

>>713220303
>n-no u
Sure kek

>>713220160
>Miquella was basically a self hating trans person
>Discards his other half instead of allowing himself to love himself as much as he loved others
>We have to kill him
>It hurts, just a little

>>713206976
That isn't a death cult, that is just how pseudo-death works in Marika's system.
You never truly die, ideally, you instead reincarnate through the tree and your soul is preserved in some form.

>>713220541
Magic is mysterious only to those that don't understand it.
Magic as in Persian magi is just communication with divine.

>>713219734
The Greater Will is sapient and goal oriented, it's just Not Here. As the elden beast boss fight makes clear, it is the creator of MANY worlds. It never meaningfully interacted with our world beyond dropping the elden ring and metyr, although it does seem that studying the greater will allows you to sort of tap into it to some degree.

>>713220542
It's in fact central to the Carian way of life and worship.

>>713220597
Do you think occult is just a bunch of hip orders for bored rich people and monks making overcomplicated books?

>>713220629
Fuck off, pedophile

>>713220768
>do you think
No. I am.

>>713209056
The Ring does not do that, Astel lives and it exists outside the Ring. Scarlet Rot is an independent form of life, and it exists outside of the Ring. The Twinbird God exists and it is outside of the Ring.
The Ring is the symbol of the influence of a certain God, but it is not unique in being that. Only unique in being the dominant one on the planet since at least Farum Azula was around.

>>713220910
Cool.

>>713220768
NTA, but yes, that's exactly what it is

>>713210870
>Is irrelevant to Marika stealing grace from the actual goddess that is dead and covered in a funerary shroud.
Marika did kill a rival Goddess candidate, but there's no evidence she stole divinity from anyone and a lot of evidence that her 'betrayal' was little more than her fucking over the Hornsent who really thought that she'd obey them after becoming a Goddess, despite everything they did.

>>713220926
>Astel lives and it exists outside the Ring.
Astel is a literal alien
>Scarlet Rot is an independent form of life, and it exists outside of the Ring.
>The Twinbird God exists and it is outside of the Ring.
No, it doesn't. In fact, Marika having the elden ring right above her pussy is exactly WHY her kids were born with weird associations with various kinds of life, including the scarlet rot.
>The Ring is the symbol of the influence of a certain God,
No, it is the very essence of life established by this world's true creator god. Though obviously this does not extend to life NOT from this world.

Guys, I'm gonna be honest... I think it's all random bullshit

>>713195245 (OP)
Radagon opposed me so he was in the wrong, therefore by process of elimination we can determine that Marika was in the right.

>>713219348
Hard to say.
There could have just been one group of Tarnished, Godfrey's army, that all Tarnished we see descend from in one way or another, or there could have been an original group of Tarnished and then others that sporadically lost grace over time at her whim.
You could argue either way, and I don't know if there's a clear answer.

>>713218840
>>713218635
The Nox made truly artificial life using mercury. These creatures are primitive but, when pure enough, can copy the forms of organic life they encounter. The albinaurics are a derivative magic invented by the sorcerers of Raya Lucaria based on scavenged Nox alchemical technology. As the name implies (albinauric = "white gold"), they mixed mercury with organic flesh to try to animated it. Generation 1 albinaurics were corpses treated with mercury to try to bring them back to life. That's why they inevitably suffer the neuropathic paralysis associated with mercury poisoning. Gen 2 albinaurics were mercury mixed into a stew of flesh, symbolically mimicking the origins of life, and from this was derived a stable, if visually off putting, aquatic looking lifeform. This is not the only attempt by the lucarian mages to animate flesh, as they also tried to imbue them with summoned spirits. This resulted in the fucking revenants. You can see why they went back to the drawing board.

Back to the Nox, it is entirely possible that all the currently existing Nox are actually silver tear mimics of the original inhabitants. They certainly look the part.

>>713221320
So how did Tarnished be a thing somehow before Grace and the Golden Order were established?

>>713214441
Goldmask's ending is basically 'what if you let Plato take over the Olympian Pantheon'.
Where every (demi)God is turned into an unchanging, essentially metaphorical representation of a concept instead of being a personality.

>>713220264
During the intro cutscene when it shows the tarnished receiving the guidance of grace you can hear the inside - specifically the inside - of a wandering mausoleum

>>713221463
>. Generation 1 albinaurics were corpses treated with mercury to try to bring them back to life. That's why they inevitably suffer the neuropathic paralysis associated with mercury poisoning
>can use physical mercury in unusual manner
>can't prevent its negatife effect on biological matter
Pick one.

>>713221897
>can't prevent its negatife effect on biological matter
Well they can. They just had to change their technique. Hence, the gen 2s.

>>713221463
This is the first I've heard of any of these theories, but I like them all and now consider them canon

>>713217586
Carians seem pretty independent of all the Greater Will and Golden Order shit.
They have their own God, the Full Moon/Dark Moon. But it isn't really worshipped knowingly as a God, I don't think.
They're probably descended from the Nox, given the associations with night and sorcery/magic crystals.
Height just means someone is strong. Don't think that much about it.

>>713217834
>>713218101
A lot of enemies in Elden Ring have hollowed out torsos.
I think its meant to look like a rotted tree.
The Dragonkin have it and they're explicitly failed creations that live a meager and empty existence as living larp sessions.

>>713222006
Carians are also probably the inheritors of the old Rauh system, beyond the new generation with Rennala being Astrologers
Descendants of the old queen

>>713218363
Omens did literally nothing wrong.
Most even have Grace.

>>713212751
Oh shit STP posted outside the (basically now dead) Saturday threads. Am I dreaming?
Weeks mean nothing in the maw of forever...

>>713222180
>wrong image, fuck
heres a better one

>>713218878
They are Alien Gods.
They're not Lovecraft Eldritch Horror Gods.
They're more like Xenu from Scientology.

>>713219032
It fucked off long before Marika was around, most likely.
It dropped Metyr off and then disappeared, and she and her Finger Spawn tried to pick up the pieces afterwards.

>>713221468
What makes you think that they were?
Messmer knowing what a Tarnished is? We have to assume that he was locked away after Godfrey was exiled.

>>713195245 (OP)
i put 200+ hours into elden ring
i dont know who either of those characters are

melinia or melana or megulia or something probly

>>713197284
sure, the same way St. Trina is Miquella
but it's clear that at the very least, separation from the whole leads to aberrations in thinking between the parts
and dialogue from Melina specifies that Radagon was trying to become the dominant aspect of the whole

>>713222267
>>713222006
This also explains the belfries that connect Farum Azula with the Carians for some bizarre reason, and the solitary belfry in the dlc guarded by a Carian Knight takes you to Rauh
Caria Manor also seems built in a similar layout to Rauh, into the side of a mountain overlooking a wide swath of land
It also I just realized, explains why Rennala can summon spirits without a bell. She can invoke spirits like Rauh once did, and how the Hornsent try to do

>>713219342
We don't know if all of those were her kids.
Some might have been total failures that no one bothered to remember.
But others could have been children of Godwyn, Radagon, Radahn, Rykard, Ranni, even Miquella and Malenia.
There's no reason to not think that a degenerate like Rykard didn't create a ton of bastard spawn, for example.

>>713222501
The fact Godfrey was a Tarnished before the Elden Ring was ever established.

>>713220541
Arcane is just a good way to get split damage while dodging around various boss resistances to magic or holy.
The Stat shouldn't exist because it governs basically nothing else but status build up.

>>713220541
>>713222841
Arcane magic in elden ring is about integrating foreign power sources into yourself, where as sorcery is exploiting natural forces by knowing enough about them.

>>713223037
Arcane literally comes from your own blood. It's not foreign.

>>713223151
One way it can come is by other people's blood, not your own

>>713221060
Marika's kids being fucked up is easily explainable otherwise.
Morgott and Mohg are clear karmic punishments/curses from the Hornsent and crucible.
Miquella and Malenia are punishments for incest, with the Rot God taking a chance to sneak in and infect a member of the Royal Family itself.

I just don't see any reason to think that the Greater Will actually made life on the planet.
Ymir talks about being a child of the Greater Will, but he also wants to literally become Metyr and birth a world, so I think there's some psychological complications on that line that need to be accounted for.
He says that even sorcerers, Carians that aren't a part of the Golden Order, are children of the Greater Will, but at the same time that is derived from his growing obsession with Metyr and contrasts Rennala and Ranni's real partnership with the Moon.

>>713222720
I don't know that there's any reason to think that?
Care to share?
He hunted the Giants to defend the Erdtree from the threat of their flames, which makes it fairly clear that the Erdtree and the Golden Order was already around before that point.

>>713220596
What a chad. He probably dropped his gold seed like the sap of the erdtree.

>>713220691
>Magic is mysterious only to those that don't understand it.
Yes. There’s still mystery afoot at Raya Lucaria. The conspectuses of Karolos and Olvinus pursue the “mysteries” of comets and meteors, respectively. They are mystery schools.

You can argue there’s still mystery afoot in our own real world today. In places.

>Magi
They were learned astrologer-priests. The mysteries of the divine went hand in hand with the mysteries of nature - since the divine is a way of looking at nature.

>>713223519
Because Godfrey has never died, the definition of a Tarnished. Thus, he was Tarnished already as Hoarah Loux (which the opening cinematic outright tells you).

>>713221463
>Generation 1 albinaurics were corpses treated with mercury to try to bring them back to life. That's why they inevitably suffer the neuropathic paralysis associated with mercury poisoning. Gen 2 albinaurics were mercury mixed into a stew of flesh, symbolically mimicking the origins of life, and from this was derived a stable, if visually off putting, aquatic looking lifeform.
This is a very neat take, and maybe even the truth of their inspiration. I believe it is confirmed in earlier versions that they’re experimental lifeforms made by the Raya Lucarians, but this isn’t so obvious in the released base game, for unknown reasons.

>>713223829
I would say that he renounced his name Godfrey after being sent to the badlands and reclaimed it when he returned to the Lands Between and wished to become Lord again.
You don't necessarily have to die to be a Tarnished. Roderika appears to have zero experience with violence or death of any sort, whether her own or others, and she is a Tarnished nonetheless.

>>713222587
>explains why Rennala can summon spirits without a bell
I think there are other ways to summon spirits, other than bells. Some just spawn as traps, and the damn singing snails… The wandering mausoleums are basically one big spirit summoning bell.

Summoning seems pretty damn common in the setting. Not just spirits. Remember that one twinsage by the Liurnian pass? Summons an army. And a troll knight.

It just sucks that WE couldn’t do all that cool stuff…

>>713222587
>Caria Manor also seems built in a similar layout to Rauh
It’s older or more medieval looking than the academy. They probably stayed on the surface while their peers got buried.

>>713224214
It says plainly in the intro the Tarnished have died previously, including Hoarah Loux.
"I would say" is not evidence. Show where Godfrey died to become Tarnished.

>>713222587
Even Commander Niall can summon dudes without bells.
The PC is just a bitch.

>>713224473
Why do you think that you have to die to become Tarnished?
>He led the War against the Giants. Faced the Storm Lord, alone. And then, there came a moment. When his last worthy enemy fell. And it was then, as the story is told, that the hue of Lord Godfrey's eyes faded.
The Crown item description says that Godfrey lost his grace in medias res as he was finishing battle.
He didn't die during this. He died far later in the Badlands, and was revived after that.
Given that Nepheli is a young woman and she uses the family name, Loux, saying that he went back to using his older name, Horah Loux, isn't an adventurous claim.

>>713224751
He doesn't go back to being Hoarah Loux until he slays Serosh, but the intro clearly states Hoarah Loux is Tarnished. Thus, he was already Tarnished as Hoarah Loux, long before he became Godfrey, Elden Lord.