Why is there so much infighting even between the games within the same series? DMC, Bayo and Ninja Gaiden fans are all guilty of this.

>>713837106 (OP)
What the fuck is a "character action" game, and why did you post a bunch of stylish action gamer characters?

>why is there faggotry in my faggotry thread
Mystery for the AIDges.

DMC Bayo and some NG games are good. Nier belongs there more than MGRR unironic normieslop game.

>>713837106 (OP)
It's still a bad name for the thread. But it's better than stylish, too, as an ‘'action character’' should include spiderman games, especially treyarch games

>>713837538
Nobody cares for nier's combat.

>>713837573
>spiderman
it belongs in the bamham tier. CAG is a descriptor for games with good combat.

Went back to NGS1 recently and remembered that NG without an actual delimb system and OTs isn't as fun.

>>713837969
Spiderman is stylish and has character. So why don't you change the name of the thread to “3D fighting games” but you don't want to include “arena trash”

>>713837106 (OP)
>DMC
Literally every game in the series is really different in mechanics and enemy design so people will tend to have way different feelings about them. The closest two are 4 and 5 but they still are extremely different in that 5's design decision is to take the highly technical flashy stuff that MAD players of 4 did and make similar tech something that any normalfag can access.
>Bayo
Don't think there's anyone who really in-fights over Bayo, I just think it's general consensus that the series progressively got worse by focusing less on polishing the mechanics and more on flashy set pieces and minigames.
>NG
Don't care for the series but I know it also changed people fight between 1 and 2 over how much they think exploration belongs in an action game. I know NGfags are often autistic on saying that only one version of each game's half dozen different versions is any good and the rest are terrible (though I hear that the only versions available on modern hardware are ports that got horrible input lag or something?)

>>713839096
>>713839096
BAYO1 has the worst minigames. People have legitimate criticisms about the combat.

>>713837106 (OP)
My guess is they played certain ones when they were young, and they feel like they missed the train for the others, so they fanboy over the one's they played, and hate on the others. Sounds stupid, but people act like this all the time about all forms of media. I have played pretty much all of them, and like the majority of them.

>>713837106 (OP)
>Character Action
you mean hack n slash? any game with a pre set character and action is a character action game. doom, mgs, the witcher are all character action games because they have a pre set character and action.

>>713838356
Desu these mechanics are only fun in vanilla 2. Smegma and 3re misunderstand them

>>713839525
It's a pretentious buzzword created by pedantic fans of Japanese action games. This also functions to deflect criticism of the genre's inherent shallowness. And I love those games, but this is what it's all about

>>713839525
Yeah, and Diablo is a "hack n slash". We know. Whatever name best describes what DMC and its derivatives are has never been settled on. At this point people might as well call them DMClikes like they do games similar to the Souls games.

>>713838661
>3D fighting games
a fighting game is 1v1 bouts with complex controller inputs
a hack n slash is about chaining combos with melee weapons against groups of aggressive enemies
a beat em up is about hand to hand combat and taking on groups of enemies
a musou is similar to a hack n slash but it's about crowd control and fulfilling specific victory conditions
an arpg is a rpg with a real time combat system
*not that anon or op btw

>>713839560
>Smegma and 3re misunderstand them
I definitely agree, but I still find them fun in 3RE at least, and not so much in Sigma.

>>713839874
no diablo is an arpg or action role playing game. it is focused on leveling up your character and creating specific builds. although a while ago the developer was toying with the idea of calling it and games like is a diablo like because he felt arpg was to broad of a term.

>>713839874
>Whatever name best describes what DMC and its derivatives are has never been settled on
yes it has its called hack n slash, it's what we called them back in the day. I'm sure your dad had a ps2 go ask him for yourself.

>>713839904
>Musou

Musou are like Total War/Sengoku games but in real time.

>BMUPS

are the fathers of the ''hack 'n slash'' genre. I always thought that people didn't use this name with its original tabletop meaning in mind. It was just a marker to separate these action games from the rest

>Fighting games

It's the mother of the HNS genre. But before SF there were fighting games and complex inputs don't define fighting games, the same for combos

>ARPG

Arpg's is also a loose term. I always thought it was something that started being used for diablo style dungeon crawlers. That it was different from other ARPGs and wasn't rogue-like. Although the random gear makes it roguelike

>>713783353
Just to clarify incase you stumble upon the thread, I didn't beat any of the ToVs during my base hp run, I just attempted them once for some extra karma and hp refills upon exiting, my best result was reaching Volf in Day 2. Also I just suggested to prac the ToV bosses in the ninja trial mode, not to clear the entire thing, I find most MN/UN trials to be way too hard even with the nerfs. I've only done some of the easier MN missions and none on UN yet, dunno if I ever will.

>>713839096
>The closest two are 4 and 5 but they still are extremely different in that 5's design decision is to take the highly technical flashy stuff that MAD players of 4 did and make similar tech something that any normalfag can access.
the only one I can think of is increasing the enemy step hitbox, which was itself just them (over)correcting dmc4 making the enemy step hitbox comically tiny and specific compared to dmc3 so that dante is forced to ineria himself back into the optimal spot every 3 moves in a juggle or he literally can't jump cancel because nero can just snatch himself into the ideal spot every time and the devs didn't playtest the game enough to realize how aids it makes dante compared to dmc3

>>713839096
>Don't think there's anyone who really in-fights over Bayo, I just think it's general consensus that the series progressively got worse by focusing less on polishing the mechanics and more on flashy set pieces and minigames.
This is gaslighting 101 btw.

>>713837969
since that anon was talking about treyarch games he isn't talking about the recent spidey games but stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjHlA4bdjc which has no batman magnetism outside of extremely good grapple hook style moves, which only make sense in a spidey game because that's his entire thing

>>713839874
Wasn't there discourse when FF16 was making the rounds that Yoshida or someone wanted it to be called "J-action?" Like similar to how you can easily identify a "JRPG" you can also tell when an action game is made with a Japanese style of game design.
I mean I do suppose that makes a good distinction since the "genre" is generally reliant on very Japanese style game design and a lot of the other things people call the games don't really work.
>hack and slash
There are games that do not have any significant focus on weapon-based melee combat that people group with the genre (God Hand is an uncontroversial example).
>stylish action
There are games that have no real focus on performance measuring which I think is kind of a necessary part of it being classed as having a focus on being stylish. It might be that the performance ranking either is of relative minimal importance or it just doesn't exist.
Also "stylish action" I find misses a huge point because it also includes the recent trend of games that are "press X to cool" trying to market themselves as being "like DMC or Bayonetta" but a big part of the genre is that the games are meant to be challenging and technical beyond just having flashy moves.
>character action
"lol it has characters, and action"

>>713841716
that was kamiya coining j-action, as a response to people (deliberately?) misunderstanding yoshida saying "ff16 isn't a jrpg" because he felt the term "j"rpg is kind of bullshit and a result of the same kind of western journalism that did shit like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iwH9S1rSdw to try and write off rpg games that directly trace their lineage to western games like ultima and wizardry as "weird japanese things you shouldn't care about, instead buy SKYRIM"

>There are games that have no real focus on performance measuring which I think is kind of a necessary part of it being classed as having a focus on being stylish.
but can you name a single one that is even kind of related to DMC/ninja gaiden likes that doesn't? fucking sonic the hedgehog has been giving you letter grades since 2001 - meanwhile calling it 'jaction' means that now any game that isn't made by japanese people "doesn't count"

>>713839904
>fighting game
>complex controller inputs
Most fighting game characters don't even have 25 moves and that's with normals included. Most motions are also not complex either.

>>713842715
They have higher execution barrier than any DMC game.

>>713842115
Personally I don't mind stylish action as the genre tag so long as the mechanical necessity is kept in mind but there are a good bit where the ranking system isn't as noticeable. In NG itself you don't really get much outside of an end of stage "Ninja [whatever]" as your main ranking to look at.

I don't mind J-action myself because even if the staff isn't Japanese the general ideas behind the game design are.
There's probably a reason why "God of War clones" are less discussed in relation to the Japanese games, even if you could say that a lot of them are close enough (and depending on if you consider GoW clones in the genre, that would be a subset of games with a very small focus on performance ranking), and also there has to be some sort of explanation why Chinese and Koreans can't make worthwhile games in the genre in spite of trying for the past decade.

>>713843242
Scott Pilgrim was Chinese and it was better than any of the other Kunio-Kun games. They're a bit ‘'kusoge’' yes, but Scott Pilgrim is great even outside of that

How good are the Onee Chanbara games?

>>713843234
That's completely different from having complex controls.

>>713844880
>execution barrier has nothing to do with controls
ok retard

>https://store.steampowered.com/app/3077640/MIGHTREYA/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/3077640/MIGHTREYA/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/3077640/MIGHTREYA/

PLAYTEST IS OUT!

Does anyone have any tips to beat nightmare 3 in DMC1 (DMD)
I fucked up and his cores are red.

>>713844731
Old ones on PS2, 360, and Wii are shit by now.
Series started being okay at Kagura. Mostly because of the dedicated dodge button instead of DMC roll input.
Best ones are Z2 Chaos and Origin. People will debate which one's better, but they're both okay in their own ways. Z2 Chaos has more stuff/content to work with, but enemy interactions are poorly designed. Origin is kinda the opposite and takes a more grounded, modern approach.

>>713841143
Interesting, I thought you lost all the karma once you choose to move on from a ToV without completing it. I just used them for the "spoiler" purpose.

That's right, you did say just that, I conflated my own desires of beating it completely with your advice. Got some nice practice in on Doku, Alma and Alexei already, Elizebet somehow went down first try on one of the mentor trials, but Alexei feels a lot harder than he did in 2, fucker killed me 3 times before I got him.
Out of curiosity, which would you say are the easier MN missions?

I tried that trick the other anon told me about(holding Y after OT), and it was really nice to get more reliable SoB's on those white claw faggots. It'll definately take some work to make it viable, but I can see the potential. With cicada surge and this, I'm sure my next run will be a lot of fun.

>>713846034
use rolling blaze to parry his spike move and break his projectile spam
use max charge punches to break core
just suck it up and use an untouchable and do better next time because you can still get an S rank even with item use if you otherwise do great in this game, esp if you beat secret missions

you may not like it, but this is what peak dante performance looks like

>>713844975
>pressing P and then K is complex controls
Regardless the execution barrier is vastly overrated when it comes to fighting games. Learning MUs, neutral, having an actual plan for offense and defense, knowing universal mechanics, resource management, and honestly, just blocking is what keeps people down, rather than not being able to 1-frame links.

>>713846660
For me, it's King Cerberus.

>>713845823
It's fun.
Hopefully still going to get polished up a decent bit more, but fun.
I don't know if the weird camera is a flaw or a feature, since the auto-lock is a huge part of combat that keeping enemies on-screen might be an intentional part of combat design.

There is a lot of room for growth and improvements with Nero and Vergil in future entries but I struggle to think what more they can do with Dante.

>>713846660
DSD, Balrog, KC and Cavalierre
E&I, Coyote A, Kalina Ann II and Dr Faust

Its all I need and want.

>>713847956
>I struggle to think what more they can do with Dante.
how about give him a game where you actually play as him for more then a quarter of it? he has all these tools but rather then design a game entirely around them they keep making games where dante happens to exist within them but also characters who have way less going on need to fight the same enemies

>>713837106 (OP)
Because each game is very different. You're artificially lumping them together but there's no reason why someone would like all of them equally.

>>713837106 (OP)
Why do people still call it "Character Action"? That's the most designed-by-committee Slop name ever conceived. It doesn't even tell you what it means.

>>713846660
rog and cav is honestly way too good, they compliment eachother perfectly and while losing summon swords and the ability to instantly delete flying enemies sucks being able to seamlessly swap between them is great

>>713847956
I've got a simple one, make it so when you remove all your guns (or melee) with irregular full custom make it so you can rotate your loadout the other direction with the now useless change gun button, like how vergil works

>>713848221
I think 5 did a great job of giving us three characters and they all worked yet felt very different. Despite sharing the spotlight, Dante got so much love and good stuff. I get wanting more of the character you like though, even a divergence mode wouldn't do it justice. At this point, Vergil and Nero are here to stay and if the next proper entry was just Dante I'd miss those two.

>>713848468
It's no more retarded than "Survival Horror" or "Immersive Sim"

>>713848547
>Nero are here to stay
not after itsuno left capcom when he was the only guy pushing him lmao

>>713848565
Survival Horror is good honestly. It actually tells you what you need to know: it's a horror game with survival game mechanics.
The fuck is "Character Action" trying to say? Action game with characters in it? Like Every action game Ever?
No comment on immersive sim.

>>713848802
>survival game mechanics
Like having ammo and healing items? Like trying not to get killed by enemies? Like any other game?

Wo Long and SoP are stylish j-action games. You can't change my mind.

>>713849104
This looks gay as fuck.

>>713849104
whats the difference between soul shield and regular guardt

>>713848656
The team pushed for Nero. Plus Reuben and Dan are good with JYB so would want him back too.

>>713848906
he's talking about resource management

>>713848906
Anon, the difference is LIMITED resources. A survival game is one that isn't drowning you in health and ammo every 5 feet or letting your entire hp regen every 5 seconds.
Have you never played a survival game before?

>>713849156
Soul shield both raises your max MP and refilles your MP which is required to do your job skill and combo finishers (which act as your special moves). Against smaller enemies it will also repel their attacks. I also could be wrong but I think you take damage if you block elemental damage but not when you soul shield.

>>713837106 (OP)
Any games besides nier automata that are character action jrpg hybrid?

>>713849420
>>713849436
Except there are survival horror games where resources aren't really that limited.

How do we feel about meters in action games? yay or nay?

>>713849658
They suck.

Should I get a 360 or a series x for ninja gaiden 2?

>>713849850
Xenia Canary

>>713849806
all of them? why?

>>713849884
my pc cant even handle ps2 emulation

>>713849983
then upgrade it instead of buying a dead console for one game

>>713849658
I think meters are generally lazy game balance, but they're still better than cooldowns. If your "action" game has cooldowns, it's not a real action game.

>>713846201
>I thought you lost all the karma once you choose to move on from
Shit I might've been mandela'd, I had turned off the on-screen karma counter a while ago and never paid proper attention to the actual score. I'll double check it and the MN missions a bit later, off the top of my head I only remember Alma's and the one with Genshin & Doppelgangers taking place in one of the ToV areas.

I hate the claw fiends with passion, to me they feel a bit overtuned in some aspects, like being able to dodge out of guardbreaks or even downright guardreset you continuously, shit is vile since they always come in numbers and are already dangerous as is. The SoB bait method is a godsend but in that particular fight I find it a bit more risky than usually. Don't know if you're aware but they are weirdly susceptible to the onland 360y launcher, which was the cornestone of my strat, along with some occassional counters here and there and the SoB baits. Launch, do XXX in air (but don't finish the string), land on the ground, repeat. It deals very little damage despite the many hits so it's perfect for building Ki and you can do it like twice or thrice per enemy. If you happen to delimb during the juggle just 360 shuriken before OTing.

>>713849983
Xbox 360 has slowdowns and screen tearing with NG2.
One X is enhanced, don't need a Series.
But also, save your money and >>713850105

>>713850105
>>713850197
can I buy it on the xbox store on series s?
My nephew has one

>>713850496
Yes.

>>713850540
hell yeah

>>713837106 (OP)
>>713837329
>>713837573
I thought we settled on Japanese Action Violence?

Why did you change it from Stylish to Character?

>>713850496
Yeah but make sure you get the original version not one of the other releases.

>>713845823
It's fun. My main issue is that it runs pretty poorly and there's a lot of visual clutter so combined I had no idea what was going on in the Rasetsuten fight and just kinda mashed to win. Definitely feels low budget but soulful.
And most importantly, you can look up Reya's skirt.

>>713850165
>I think meters are generally lazy game balance
I think having moves that require meter adds depth and makes encounters feel unique based on how much meter you have.
>If your "action" game has cooldowns, it's not a real action game
I think cooldowns can be useful for stopping the player from relying on certain moves. It could also be a good form of punishment.

Love these type of games, although I don't quite get how to do those stylish combos yet. I've played DMC 1, 3, DmC and Bayonetta — which I own a physical copy of on X360. I also bought the digital version of dmc4 but it keeps giving me an error when I try playing and I don't know if the xbox support can help me.
I want to buy Ninja Gaiden 2, I found a copy with a fair price on the net.

>>713837106 (OP)
So what happened to the term "stylish

all trash games

>>713851254
You can play Ninja Gaiden Black on xemu, it runs perfectly. NGSigma in the master collection is also good. It's a better starting point IMO since you actually get a chance to understand what the mechanics are instead of desperately spamming flying swallow to survive (my experience trying to start with NG2)

Wanted Dead is my favorite character action game

>>713851608
Thanks for the tip. Maybe when I upgrade my pc I'll give it a try. I can only play it on my 360 for now.

Favourite BGM from these games?
I think this is underrated
https://youtu.be/yvGatp0vgUU

>>713851254
Personally I find that comboing is a type of autism where you need to spend time in the lab ironing shit into muscle memory and then deliberately pulling them out mid-game.
You play the game in a normal way and you'll be playing with more of the defense and mobility you'll pick up a few strings in your arsenal but if you want to do things like you see in MADs you have to route something out and then ready your hands to execute on it, you won't really pick up only through improvisation. Since I don't like labbing I suck at combos, myself.

>>713851334
Name 3 good games

>>713846660
why have E&I when faust is just a straight upgrade?

>>713848221
>they keep making games where dante happens to exist within them
This is such a disingenuous post. Disregarding the fact Dante has at least a third (at minimum 7/21) of the game's missions, and that DMC5's big missions are larger than those of previous games, with their unique maps, it's just so silly to propose the game slighted Dante in any way.

This is the game where he finally got his own Devil Sword, his Sin Devil Trigger, his own Summoned Sword, the bike weapon they wanted to give him since DMC3, the best version of all his legacy abilities, on top of super improved versions of Kalina Ann and Cerberus.

Like, logically speaking King Cerberus has no big reason to be in the game. It's just fan service as a weapon. But they went the whole fucking way with it and it's one of the best videogame weapons of all time. And it has its own boss too, which is also excellent. Go play NG3 and get the Volf scythe dropped on you on a random level and tell me they didn't care about doing Dante justice in this game.

Even the story has people asking where Dante is at the whole time, Nero being triggered at a single thing he says, Vergil surviving entirely just to get even at him, Nico dropping her spaghetti when he meets her, mission 19 is a giant homage to DMC1 with fights against its bosses with remixes and all. If the roles were reversed and it was Nero or Vergil being treated like this you'd be ripping your hair out.

Seriously people complaining about not getting enough Dante are genuinely insufferable. You'd bitch that they didn't get him right just like in the reboot and the anime(s) if they made him get together with Lady or whatever fanfiction you'd pass for a story just to TRICKSWORD for another game. (Forget that there's been all of two games in which he's not the absolute undisputed protagonist.)

Ragebound has dual protagonists done right. One main and one to do some gimmick sections.
IMO the best game to do switching between different characters was Spongebob Squarepants: Battle for Bikini Bottom

>>713853613
>One main and one to do some gimmick sections.
>he doesn't know

>>713851145
No, they're both lazy and don't add anything of value 99% of the time. If the only way you can think of balancing moves is by locking them behind a meter or cooldown, then you're not doing a very good job at balancing your game. Meters can be even worse when you make it so that your basic attacks have nearly useless properties, at which point they just become meter-building tools. Cooldowns are also incredibly bad while being incredibly arbitrary. They only exist because the game developers had absolutely no idea how to actually balance moves in an organic way. It's just an incredibly braindead way to balance things that doesn't actually do anything besides giving the player an illusion of choice. There's just no real thought behind any of it.

If you really need to balance these super special moves or whatever, you'd be better off by having them be limited resources—like Ninpo in Ninja Gaiden, power stars in Streets of Rage, or bombs in shumps in general. Alternatively, you can have them drain health like desperation attacks in beat 'em ups. Either of those methods would be better than just going "ah, fuck it, lock it behind a meter/cooldown", as they would likely add something of actual value to the game.

>>713853431
keep in mind that my post was saying "it would be nice to play a game actually designed around dantes mechanics" so most of what you wrote really doesn't have anything to do with that.
>Disregarding the fact Dante has at least a third (at minimum 7/21) of the game's missions
two of those missions are just boss fights, and then another is mission 13 which is bloody palace: the level for their multiplayer gimmick, leaving dante with only 4 actual levels. and two of them (10/18) are the dante tutorial stage with yet another fight against chair urizen except this one you literally can't beat and a level where you barely even do anything between fighting V familiars over and over because they wanted to be lore accurate to how the top of the qliphoth is actually the weakest part.

he only has two meaty levels designed entirely around him. levels, not even boss fights as literally every boss dante fights is in bloody palace so they need to be designed in a way where slow ass weak ass V can also beat them - just levels. its been 20 fucking years since a DMC game was actually designed around dante, the protagonist of the series that as you said the story and raw gameplay mechanics constantly suck off - but for some reason he can't actually get a video game worth playing unless people mod it which has been the case for all HD console games now

>>713846201
>>713850175
Well happy to report you get to keep the earned karma even if you don't beat the ToV. The MN missions I completed are MN 02, 03, 04, 07 and 09. They felt chill compared to the rest even back when I was less good at the game. Some encounters were still a bit awkward but manageable if you're patient. I think 01 is also relatively easy to beat.

>>713854525
>then another is mission 13 which is bloody palace
I didn't include mission 13, because it's optional. He gets missions 10-12 and then 16-19. That's exactly 7 missions.

>leaving dante with only 4 actual levels
That's basically the same number of missions Nero gets without the gimmick levels. And more than V gets on every count.

>yet another fight against chair urizen
He gets the exact same amount of fights as throne Urizen as Nero.

>they wanted to be lore accurate to how the top of the qliphoth is actually the weakest part
Where the hell did you get that from? They just wanted to do a fight with those enemies for the obvious reason they were DMC1 enemies.

>he only has two meaty levels designed entirely around him
Not including Mission 10 is completely disingenuous.

>literally every boss dante fights is in bloody palace
Nightmare isn't. And every Nero boss fight is in BP too except Gilgamesh and the actual tutorial boss.

>they need to be designed in a way where slow ass weak ass V can also beat them
You've clearly never played BP as V because Vergil is absolutely not designed around him.

>its been 20 fucking years since a DMC game was actually designed around dante
DmC: Devil May Cry is right there for you, buddy. But that's not the right Dante, is it?

Again, you will never be pleased with anything you're given because if the character gets pedestalized it's bad and if he gets changed it's also bad, just like I said.

>>713852427
I thought so: that combos are about training and experience. And what we see at MAD videos are more of a performance for show. Maybe one day I'll do a combo to post here.

>>713855323
>They just wanted to do a fight with those enemies for the obvious reason they were DMC1 enemies.
what part of this requires the parts of the level between the V familiars to consist almost entirely of the weakest enemies in the game in groups of 2-3 even on DMD?

>DmC: Devil May Cry is right there for you, buddy. But that's not the right Dante, is it?
so is dmc3, a game that even the zoomer fanbase dmc5 picked up is playing instead because of dmc crimson. I'm not gonna bother replying to you again if you're posting something silly like this

>>713851652
It's not fucking good. Why would anyone care about this over anything else

>>713855762
>a game that even the zoomer fanbase dmc5 picked up is playing instead because of dmc crimson
So you're completely retarded. Gotcha.

>>713853431
The Dante bitching is just going to get worse, 5 literally ends as a setup for ANOTHER Nero game where Dante (and Vergil this time) might pop in half way through the game again after their trip through hell

but they could always just do a 4 and ignore the ending like 2, desu it probably is time for another full dante game, and no the reboot doesn't count

>>713856857
>he thinks we're getting DMC6
>he thinks we're not getting DMC1 remake (inspired by the ultimate visionary Adi Shankar)
>he thinks Capcom will ever try doing something as out there as Nero ever again when DMC fans on x dot com will shit themselves if someone says fuck too many times
You fuckers enjoy your style switching, I'll go play Onimusha.

>>713857192
>as out there as Nero
you mean dante, but with less moves and otherwise the exact same?

>>713857318
I mean Dante, but he gets laid.

>>713854202
Your post not only assumes that anything balanced by meters is only done so because they couldn't think of doing it another way which is an obvious reach, but doesn't actually say a single reason as to why meters or cooldowns are actually bad, let alone lazy. It's "they're bad because I say so and other ways can exist" in a lot of words. In fact, despite trying to frame it as a bad thing, you outright give reasons to add meters in game as a method of increasing depth and variety in attack properties. Finishing it off by saying limited resources or spending health are just always better, again with no reasoning, while entirely disregarding how meters are a resource and health itself is a meter is the icing on the cake.

Darksiders is my favourite character action game franchise.

>>713849156
soul shield is stronger, uses a meter
perfect guard is weaker, uses way less

>>713841143
Funnily enough, I would have missed his reply to me if you hadn't posted this, so thanks. I haven't done all the trials yet either, I wanted to just do Story on all difficulties first before getting into them outside of the few where I could practice the ToV bosses. I was too stubborn not to do the ToVs each time which meant a ton of time spent early on especially on UN, but it was still fun and balances out buying the health in a way. At least that's how I choose to see it. I generally like having the health to play around with though, more to spend doing dumb risky and cool shit.
I haven't tried the MN/UN trials yet but I've done all the others, most weren't so bad outside of a few (claw ninjas with doppleganger seems more fucked up than two dopplegangers) but I want to see if I can do em all.
>>713850175
Claw fiends are tough but I think the biggest thing is just knowing when to give up on trying to fight them head on and reposition. I get stuck a lot wanting to just get the counter on them while they keep swinging in groups but it's so easy for it all to fall apart after missing it once.

all we need is DmC and Bayonetta everything else is okay i guess

>>713849658
they are cool

>>713857639
>balanced by meters is only done so because they couldn't think of doing it another way
Because it is. As I said, 99% of the time, meters are nothing more than a lazy balancing tool. One that adds absolutely nothing of value to any game it's in.
>depth and variety in attack properties
Making it so that your basic attacks serve no purpose other than building meter is neither "depth" nor "variety"; it is, in fact, the complete opposite. The fact that you genuinely think that can be considered "depth" says a lot about how worthless your opinion on game design is.
>again with no reasoning
Both of them add an actual element of risk vs. reward, as they’re limited resources. You can’t just build more of them, nor can you simply use them again for free after a set amount of time. You have to actually think about when and how to use them; something that wouldn’t exist if you could just, for example, build a meter instead. Meters and cooldowns only give you the illusion of choice, as I also said in my original post.
>meters are a resource
Not a limited one. If only you could read, poor you.

Anyone defending meters or cooldowns in action games in any way can only be mentally retarded in the first place, but you just had to make it all the more obvious with that absolutely idiotic post.

>>713859134
is DT a meter? yes or no

>>713859134
You did it again. You literally just did it again in this whole post. Not even just the part where you did it intentionally, but the whole thing. Anyway, as to basically everything you said including about risk vs reward and needing to decide when you use "limited" resources, I shouldn't need to say anything more except pic related to maybe with any luck make you recognize your skewed logic.

>>713849156
Regular guard:
>costs nothing to hold, Break refills slowly instead, can move during it, only blocks half magic damage, if timed you Parry which costs no Break, gives a Break regen buff, stops all damage and can have a specific ability followup set
Soul Shield
>costs Break to hold and costs more when successful than guard but can't be broken, whiff animation that stops Break refill shortly, prevents all damage, builds MP and max MP, inflicts slight Break damage and can stagger small/mid enemies, has iframes and can cancel into a dash attack or any other action

>>713858153
This is the JActionViolence thread though

ok bros what chaction games should I get this sale?

>>713859712
If you think that having limited items capable of restoring Ninpo means that Ninpo is the same thing as a meter you can always build, then you are retarded beyond human comprehension. Under that absolutely idiotic logic of yours, we could claim that health isn't a limited resource in any game with healing items because you can just use items to heal, thus meaning that the health systems used in those games are actually the same as Call of Duty's regenerating health system. In other words, there is no difference between, say, Resident Evil's health system and Call of Duty's.

Having limited items does not change that Ninpo is a limited resource. You still have to think about when and where to use them, because even if you have items capable of restoring Ninpo, those items aren't infinite. You have to think about whether you should save them for a particularly tough encounter instead of using them whenever. Perhaps you should save them for a boss fight or something else. It is still far superior to meters or cooldowns because there is still actual thought behind it. Once again, you are proving you are, as a matter of fact, mentally retarded, since you can't tell the difference between those things.

Good joob on ignoring the rest of the post, by the way. If you're going to reply to me again with such astoudingly stupid, clueless takes on game design that would make even the worst western developer blush, then don't.

>next Ninja Gaiden is going to be neptunia
expect to see Ryu slicing up dogoos

>Original NG2 and Devil's Third an absolute pain in the ass to emulate
>NG2B remake is just Sigma again
>NG2B mod for Sigma just fucking disappeared
>NG4 looks kinda shit
Itagakibros I'm not feeling so good....

Are there any other games with lots of enemies like DMC4 dark knight's mode?
It's literally the only reason I got it

Bonus points if there's a combo counter or point system

>>713861804
>heaps on countless more massive assumptions from a very basic comparison
>takes entirely the opposite point from what is implied and triples down on inane all or nothing binary schizo logic, spewing yet more bullheaded ignorant takes all because you were salivating too hard at tossing ad hominem at a person instead of a game mechanic
I'm honestly impressed, you blew it outta the park, this reply turned out way more ridiculous than I even dared to expect. Take a seat and relax champ, you earned it.

>>713862569
just play NG2W
>that'll be 80 gigabytes, goydrive

I'm asking again, how's DMC3 Crimson?

>>713862716
I have to assume you know about Dynasty Warriors and the other musou games. You'd likely also enjoy Sengoku Basara a lot though maybe you also know of those games.

>Want Ninja Gaiden 4
>Get Metal Gear Rising 2 in Disguise
Well, that's not too bad since I loved MGR, but still...

>>713859062
Nice, I mostly played trials until I would get the desired cheevos and costumes for Momiji and Kasumi. More HP also translates to more fun in my case, but on the other hand I also enjoy some of these self-imposed challenges if it's something reasonable on paper and within my skill level. 3RE's base hp run ended up being really fun and rewarding for the most part unlike the ones in S1 and Vanilla 2, and to top it off it also solidified Wind Blades as the best ninpo for me.
>>713846201
Oh and the last piece of advice I can give is that you can cicada surge their suicide grab and then SoB nearby enemies, very satisfying to pull off but also very risky.

>>713862867
Yeah but I wanna play on my steam deck

Damn ChatGPT-kun is angwy today.
>>713862716
Got the perfect game for you.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bhTlSN09y1g

>>713858153
I wish 2 didnt have that dumb loot focus, yeah the models look cool but they realy should have just leaned into making a few well developed secondary weapons.

>>713837106 (OP)
>Bayo has 1 objectively good game, 2 is okay while 3 just objectively shits the bed in the worst way possible in gameplay and story
>DMC has 1 good game and then a horrible sequel, then a third game that completely changed the identity of the series. The fourth game was then so abysmal that Capcom cucked themselves into thinking a western bastardization of the series would unironically be better, and then that was so bad it forced the series to lay dormant for 10 years, only for 5 to revive the series but unfortunately bring normies into it which made it cringey to associate with
>literally most of 3D NG's legacy devolves from 2 being remade like 10 times and all of them are different enough to where none can be actually called the definitive version... for... some reason?
TLDR: Bayo stopped being good at 1, DMC is only 50% good and kind of ruined action games with 5, NG is run on pure autism and clinging to the past.
>>713850662
No one gives a shit about your shitty wordplay.

>>713863231
Not really action core or any difficulty there

>>713863770
I'd only get one of the PC versions. Mostly so I can use cheat engine to do about half or a quarter damage to enemies so they don't die as fast

>>713849104
Dude, please stop, you're embarassing yourself in front of the hoes...

You are going to play the Chinese Action with Jennifer English, right?

>>713862792
>ignores everything I said and calls me a "schizo" while claiming my takes are "ignorant"
I accept your concession. Next time, don't talk about things you know absolutely nothing about so you don't embarrass yourself as much. Cheers.

>>713864057
If making combos in it are fun sure absolutely.

>>713863746
Is the 'eck really not powerful enough to run it? 'eck 2 when?

>>713863565
It's a DMC 4 repeat thoughbeit

>>713864817
Before NG4, before DMC4, there was MGS2.

>>713864817
Unlike DMC4, it won't be dogshit.

>>713863614
That's pretty much exactly how I feel about it. I'm not a big fan of challenge runs that limit mechanics for example unless they open up particularly unique options in their place, and I'm not sure how much would change on the base HP run except needing to be even more on point. That in itself can be fun though and I'm sure there's more I'd get out of it so maybe one day I'll get around to it. I was also thinking about that Cicada Surge tech when doing that post but forgot to put it in, I messed around with it and while it's tough to do it's very cool. I think there's some weird thing where you can OT them after an SoB I need to explore more as well, I just see them get fake delimbed after death.
>it also solidified Wind Blades as the best ninpo for me
Based, welcome to the few, the proud, the correct. It gives a whole new view on those who constantly claim Void isn't just the best but the only usable Ninpo.

>>713863896
Tell me you haven't played them on max difficulty without telling me. You'd be surprised both at the level of challenge and even the combo potential despite it being more about battlefield management and knowing where to go, and I haven't even played DW:O either. I've heard that one's extremely good.

>>713865424
I've only ever done the Vita Samurai one and found it not difficult tho in fairness from my understanding the enemies are massively limited in number
I'd be interested in that hyrule warriors one since I was told it has the most grinding

ok but is DT a meter? you just refused to answer

NG4 is dead on arrival. There's no hype. I've only ever seen russians bother to analyze the trailers.

threw up a tier list for how strong dantes weapons are in dmc5, thoughts?

>Ryu will only have DS but will have stance switching

>>713866423
>DKA that low
How? Outside the one tech for the two Kalinas it's superior in every sense.

>>713849104
this is just a souls game but fast

>>713866423
I cannot be assed to give a shit about weapon strength, just if they're fun to use. You are soulless for caring about that.

>>713858153
>actual sequel never ever
it hurts bros....

>>713864057
The promos inspired zero confidence.

>>713866687
>Outside the one tech for the two Kalinas it's superior in every sense.
that tech makes them better at the one thing ka can really do you can't do better elsewhere, which is damage to things that don't move. if you have the time to set up mega cascade you have time to faust meteors

>>713865273
Yeah most of the time these runs seem a bit self-defeating. I haven't experienced the OT after SoB thing but the fake delimb sounds familiar, I think when you chop off their right arm they don't go berserk, and I recall one of them surviving and chasing me after losing both arms, even though normally it should result in instant death. Think it happened after I severed his left arm and then threw him at the wall.

>>713867224
Can't Faust basically do that too, but without breaking your fingers?

>>713864817
who gives a shit about levels in a game like this?

>>713866423
>stun and clash machine, sometimes both at once
>launcher bypasses scudo angelo shields
>hotstuff is unblockable (I think, it at least goes through cav angelo's cocoon)
>ice age
KC is easily SS tier just wish the windmill had a dedicated input.

>>713867378
For me it seemed to be after I killed them, I forget exactly if it was from SoB or UT, I'd be able to hit their dead body and it would sever something invisible even though they'd lost too many limbs, and in some cases I'd get an OT. It's not too big a deal but it's a funny little detail and might be a niche way to get some extra Ki and Karma.

>>713866836
You know nothing

>>713868201
if you had to pick 1 weapon, it would be SS, but the damage just isn't there and balrog/cav-r are about equal in terms of parrying outside of like, reflecting vergils entire sword rain into his head with ice age

>>713846586
This

>>713837106 (OP)
reminder DMC5 is one of the worst games ever made.

>>713864817
Looks like league of legends

>>713872818
we know

>>713850175
I was not aware of the 360Y OL launcher, definately going to give that a whirl! I've never used the 360 shuriken either. So many things to try next run.

>>713854763
Sick! Definately going to spend some more time doing ToVs next time then! Appreciate the missions, will try those ones first then.

>>713859062
I'm happy you were still able to read it. I wasn't as stubborn because I got filtered by the ToVs pretty early on (normal) then just never got back in until UN, at which point I could barely make it to Doku on Day1. Thinking I might revisit some lower difficulties and do the ToVs on those first.

The only UN trial I've tried so far is with the 3 doppelgangers, which I can make it through round1 easily enough with CounterY into Rolling/Izuna, but that doesn't work so well on Epigonos and haven't made much progress in that 2nd round, but with the damage taken, I'm not sure it's a viable strategy to clear the entire trial. Cool that you want to clear them all, I wish you the best of luck.

>>713863614
Next run I'm maining windblades then. Thanks for all the pointers guys, I really appreciate all the knowledge you're sharing with me.
Also, what the fuck on the vid. I need to try this now, that is so fucking hot.

>>713850662
>JAV
This is a name I can get behind

we should try calling them action games. maybe people will play them more that way.

>>713847956
the only thing they can do with Dante is giving him a whole game where he's playable from the beginning to the end, his gameplay has been solved since 3 already so in 4 they just gave him every styles at once and all weapon switch and then gave him more weapons in 5 so yeah, he's just 100% solved that's why they added Nero I guess that has an already polished gameplay with just a sword, a gun and a grab button.

I think Capcom should focus on enemy design in the next installment just make them more threatening and add enemies that can catch you in the air

>>713851608
I played NGB on Xemu but at one point it crashes and my save are corrupted

Got a good PC btw

just putting that here maybe someone have a solution

>>713875075
>I think Capcom should focus on enemy design in the next installment just make them more threatening and add enemies that can catch you in the air
that's not happening with the current community and expectation, retards will call them "poorly designed"

>>713866464
>>Ryu will only have DS but will have stance switching
That's just Reboot Vergil with normal stance, Angelic Stance, and Demonic Stance all for Yamato.

>>713845823
>>713847603
Was assault spy any good?
The dev seems to have good taste in games, but it's another thing to actually make your own

>>713875075
dmc5 has a lot of new things it gives dante, like quad S (an actual reason besides points/getting upgrades faster to get SSS rank), style specific buffs with the sword formations and giving his weapons a lot of built in dodges and ways to do more attacks with mode changes to avoid you having to trickswordtrickguard quite as often if you don't want to.

it's still failed to give you a reason to actually use guns though, if anything its even worse now because they buffed his movement a shitload

>>713874128
The ToVs are great fun, definitely worth going back in for. They actually change in enemy composition based on difficulty too, if you haven't tried any of the other characters or want to practice more with any new weapons it might be a nice idea going in on Hard before MN/UN. Four Rings (the 360 shuriken) is very underrated I feel as a crowd control tool, it has better hitstun than normal shuriken so anything that they work on like the claw guys again get stopped in their tracks. It's great for covering movement.
Thanks, wanting to do the trials is very different from doing them of course but the way I see it it's simply a matter of time as long as you stick at it, even if I have to lean on the cheaper shit for some of them though I haven't really had to just yet.

>>713863876
This man speaks the truth.

>>713837538
>MGRR normieslop
lmao nigger says this when Troonetta exists

>>713876439
dmc the next one needs to have a weapon 1 and weapon 2 buttons instead of a dedicated melee/gun button at least as an irregular full custom style unlock because king cerberus is unironically superior to every single gun dante has besides faust in terms of being a ranged weapon

>>713876989
I was thinking the same thing, so I jumped into hard and did the first three days. It was nice for a change not getting fucked at every possible moment, a very relaxing experience. I'd forgotten how little damage you take on lower difficulties.

So far the day1 trial went well enough, the day2 showed me I really need to train more against Van Gelfs and Volf. On the other hand, I first tried Zedonius with Ayane without even having to heal, so that was nice. After I finish this run I'm definately going to grind all the bosses before I start on MN.

I read up on some of the stuff they throw at you in the UN trials and considering that, I'd say doing whatever you have to, to get it done seems very justified.

Wanted dead

>>713837106 (OP)
>people who like fighting type games like to fight so they will also fight each other like animals

moron

why do dmc4fags hate cavaliere so much?

>>713837106 (OP)
its hack n slash you dumb

>>713839874
diablo also has characters that do actions

you guys played scarlet nexus? started just now and seems to have potential (at the beginning you don't have shit unlocked so it's samey tho)

>>713884128
DMC is such an ass single player experience. I bought DMC V for nothing and immediately regretted it. I should have gotten the Sunbreak expansion instead. It's like every time I see a fighting game, it's like, highly dependent on having a current community and a way for online play to work. It's just not worth it when it's better to download fightcade. When (R.I.P), arcade parsec was a thing it was worth buying fighting games but now. It's SFVI or nothing. And it's like I feel with DMC, if I can't setup OBS I can't brag that I'm good at combos

>>713837106 (OP)
There isn't.
All of us play the same games, there's like less than 10 games in the genre.
It's just shitposting here and one actually mentally ill skitzo.

>>713884128
>cool fanbase

>>713851254
why is that sword handle so tiny

>>713837106 (OP)
Any upcoming shit besides NG4 and Shinobi? I feel like it's a genre on life support.

>>713850165
>I think meters are generally lazy game balance, but they're still better than cooldowns. If your "action" game has cooldowns, it's not a real action game.
What an absolute retarded statement when the stamina bar is just a cool down variant. And then what about charge actions, the mirror opposite to cool downs. The issue isn't whether cool downs are lazy, it's about how they're applied. When anything is ever used from a resource pool, the shit never gets used because there's a mindset that you might need it for later. That has always been bad balance, and is something no one ever addresses.

>>713887421
>All of us play the same games
These threads demonstrate this isn't true in the slightest.
The only ones who play more than one or two games are Platinum fans and they only play Platinum games.

Which is why the genre is dead. Why bother making a new game, when fans if the genre won't play it?

>>713837106 (OP)
How often do I have to teach you this lesson?