I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but Flawed Pacifist > True Pacifist

>>713906547 (OP)
Shit game. No need to talk about it now that DR is here

Yellow Flowey is better than OG Flowey

true is more dramatic, flawed is more sensical.

>>713906547 (OP)
It would have been so easy

>>713906547 (OP)
playing it after deltarune 1-4 was such a letdown

>>713908642
SPBP

>>713909164
Explain

>>713909492
NTA but I'm guessing it's for the same reasons why I found it a letdown - party members, TP and grazing just make the gameplay feel so much better. I legit have a hard time going back to Undertale because of it.

>>713908510
>>713909164
>Fangame made by teenagers isn't as good as a game made by experienced professionals
Shocking.

>>713909714
This. Deltarune just has better potential for high complexity battles, even if Toby himself hasn't been taking full advantage of it. There's some bits there though
>Attacking Queen's Shield is arguably better than toasting
>People get too blind in spamming the Full-Team minigame ACT in Tenna's battle because it costs TP, but you can speed the fight along much faster by Minigaming with Ralsei and using Bet30 with Susie

Keeping it on-topic, I'm hoping the DRY devs are keeping that kind of thing in mind for their fangames.

>>713910051
Oh cool I was right. I think my biggest disappointment with UTY is how the Yellow SOUL Mode is never really used outside of a scant handful of fights at the end of Genocide. There was a lot of potential there for interesting gameplay mechanics. If monster bullet patterns are considered a method of communication via SOUL, then you could spend TP to activate SOUL mode for a turn and shoot back at monsters, potentially destroying certain bullets and increasing mercy progress with every hit you land on their SOUL.

>>713908890
Is this from a Kanaklover set?

>>713909879
>Made by teenagers
NTA but didn't the creator of UTY turn 18 two years after development on the game started and 5 years before the game fully released?

>>713912013
Apparently, at least one of them was only 14 when development first started.

How I play this shit on linux? fuuuck

>use wine
nooooo

>>713911720
no, I made it in like 5 minutes with the textbox generator

>>713913357
No, I mean the Kanako sprite. Which set did you get it from?

>>713913629
its just in the kanako set for the textbox generator. no clue where it came from

>Did a neutral route on my first playthrough
>Didn't know that you could go straight to genocide or pacifist
Guess I have to do it all over again.
At least the Flowey fight was fun in a bizarre sort of way.

Undertale yellow is a fanfic since their conception, since there isn't confirmation that all the souls belong to kid and the yellow one is probably an adult.

>>713915089
I did a Neutral run last, which was nice as Flowey ended up becoming my favorite boss from the game.

So, what happens now that all official post-launch UTY content has been canned?

>>713918521
nothing? UTY doesn't need more content and Shades of Justice already adds a few things.

>>713909164
ts!underswap is what you want to play if you want more proper battles and different routes that matter more than a fight or two

>>713918747
Yeah, but it still sucks that we aren't gonna be seeing anything more of these characters or anything.

>>713918521
>Legal hot water

WHAT LEGAL HOT WATER?!
IT'S A FUCKING FAN GAME.

>>713918521
What was the planned content?

>>713920979
Ceroba H-game

i really dont see the need to stay attached to UTY like some of you here are.
it did what it set out to do. fill the dead time between deltarune chapters 2 and 3/4
also helps that i like the cast and world of deltarune more than undertale but that's another matter completely

>>713920979
Cancelled sequel, this video has all the gameplay they made before it got canned https://files.catbox.moe/hqcmma.mp4

>>713921461
You can't fool me, I've seen that url before.

>>713921461
You know, I do find it a little funny how I've never seen anyone actually get off to these sorts of things, and how I've only ever seen people use them as forum weapons like this.

>>713920663
I assume it was how they put some of their ost on spotify and shit
This is monetization in a way which will open that flood gate

>>713921442
we got devanons.

Just a reminder Jaru was right about everything!
Asriel's dust was vindicated.

>>713909164
>Game made experienced professionals is better than a free fangame made by a bunch of amateurs
you don't say

>>713913357
Which textbox generator?

>>713913237
You can play non-steam games through proton.

>>713906547 (OP)
would YOU call clover ambiguous? i didn't buy it until red & yellow made clover so blatantly feminine that i couldn't see her as anything else

>>713920663
Toby's music publisher being shitty about fan music. Its an ongoing problem and I have no idea why Toby hadn't fired the guy since he clearly doesn't like the way he handles things.

>>713927153
>red & yellow
Clover in that is basically a different character in terms of how differently he's written

>>713918521
quick rundown

>>713927153
He's pretty masculine, and aside from being an entirely different character in R&Y it only made him ambiguous in a Ralsei-like femboy way.

>>713927426
?

>>713921442
Is this pic supposed to be a reference to that one anime with a skeleton who works at a bookstore?

the roba's robas

>>713918521
There's a follow-up tweet that all but confirms it. It's sad knowing that we will never get official UTY content again.
To be completely honest, I think the creators wanted to be done with UTY for a while. The tweet was a way of finally making it official.
And I say this as someone who's been following this game since the day it came out (and even earlier actually, for a brief time after the demo).
I just think it's sad/disappointing when you care more about a game than the developers who made it.
Because it's like the devs never really interact with the community outside of acknowledging it on holidays (besides AeroArtwork I guess).
That's the way I've felt for a long time. And if the devs really want to move on, then that's okay.
I think the community will still be around anyways.

>>713915340
Imagine being an adult human and still jobbing to monsters

>>713929512
I hope they venture into making their own game.

>>713915340
Toriel took care of adult men?

>>713929512
To reiterate, this isn't an attack on the devs.
But I feel like this was bound to happen eventually. Hate mail is undeserved, obviously. An official confirmation from one of the devs that they were done with UTY was more of a matter of "when".
Some part of me hopes there could be a return to UTY one day by the team, but I doubt that will ever happen.
>>713918521
BTW, their original post-launch plans already happened. They released the soundtrack onto Spotify, which has more or less been accomplished.

>>713915340
it can kinda only be a child because an adult human would clean house with the underground and its not even close
>undyne throws her magic spear at an adult
>adult has an idea and reloads
>next time the adult grabs it mid air because reload shenanigans
>the human now has a proper weapon.

>>713915340
I like the idea of all the fallen humans being kids, it's not fully logical but it feels like what a fable would do. And you can fudge it a little while keeping the feeling (Wildfire's protagonist just passed the threshold into adulthood IIRC, like just turned 18) or take it in a specific direction e.g. one SOUL falling as a child but being allowed to live, like that Perseverance take where the human has grown into an old man.

>>713930748
One of the main artists is working on an original game

>>713927170
It's not just wolfe, it's also YouTube's bots being shit.

>>713931216
I don't mind some of the kids being older but 18 years old feels like too much I'd say the limit should be around 15 or 16 years old

>>713931405
The intro for Wildfire shows Riley becoming old enough to leave the orphanage that was his home. I suppose depending on the period he might have been let out at 16, I just assumed 18

>>713915089
Bro you can always start genocide first

>>713931543
They confirmed a long while ago that Riley is 18

>>713930834
I've seen comics with that premise before

>>713929118
No, though I'm surprised to see that mentioned since it's a hella niche anime.
Sans works in a convenience store. This Noelle is supposed to be possessed by (YOU) in a Snowgrave route, on her way to slap Sans' shit.

>>713919290
When is the next update for ts!underswap coming out anyway? I get the impression they hit themselves with severe featurecreep and pushed into never ever territory by making 4 routes with Pacifist, neutral, evacuation and genocide.

>>713918521
I'll pray for their downfall, then

>>713927170
>Toby Fox
>Sebastian Wolfe
Even his name sounds like a fucking shadow doppleganger

>>713933534
Evacuation also has a bajillion variants, you can kill everybody on ruined home but spare everybody/some monsters on starlight isles, and viceversa, thus, the third area's existence means there'll be even more evacuation neutral run variants

What makes THIS the most popular ship on Twitter/Tumblr?

>>713934304
Bad taste

>>713934304
Yaoi + the funny

>>713919290
I need more Underswap Muffet

>>713934304
the lack of any homosexual relationships in UTY forced the tumblr crowd to make one even if its extremely forced

The rober won

>>713935308
I can't believe they made Muffet even more impregnatable.

I'm toying around with the idea of making Darkblade's text gimmick be cathartic shitpost speech and threw this together in one of those UT dialogue box generators.

>>713936128
I like it, maybe you could exaggerate the effects for extra emphasis when needed, like adding a glow or a different font

>>713931254
Mo makes a cameo in the game, makes me wonder if the there will be more UTY characters too

>>713931216
the human girl from that purple fangame with chinese Kanako is a teen too

After finally playing this piece of shit for myself I’m surprised some people are obsessed with kanako of all characters

>>713934304
Something I find funny is how Dalv is nearly always the stand-in for the mother in fanart, even though both are supposed to be men.

>>713936286
I wanted to use the cool S font for a few words, but the text box generator doesn't support custom fonts. It also doesn't support special effects, so I'd have to any mockups of that in a proper image editor, or just do them in engine.

>>713938289
That's rather typical of fujo pairings, part of the fetish is self inserting as a man while still being womanly.

>>713906547 (OP)
On the subject of Undertale Yellow, has anyone seen The Last Amalgamate? What did you think of it?

>>713935489
>ninetails
people know the "tails" from ceroba in pacifist is the hair, right?

>>713932570
where there is a few videos of kid toriel and adult frisk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGSRQyQNoVQ&t=1s

>>713936128
>>713936286
>he says something so cringe inducing that it could kill even humans
>the glint from it is enough to white out the screen.
>once you come to, he's gone.

>>713938032
guess

>>713941301
Just one of her thighs is bigger than both of his legs put together.

>>713941464
Clover needs to eat a burger

>>713941301
She doesn't look like this in the game

>>713941762
That's because her potential was squandered by the writers. Just imagine how a fully grown boss monster kitsune woman would look. Imagine all the sappy childhood romance that would lead to that point.

>>713941220
so he can literally flashbang you with his cringe?

>>713941301
That is one corn fed kitsune
>>713941674
Considering what Kanako eats, maybe he should try corn chowder instead

>>713940317
its cute and ends in momlet

>>713934304
fujos

>>713942267
I avoided it because of rynogg. Is it actually worth watching?

>>713941220
This makes me hate the fact that I don't know photoshop, because I desperately want to make an image out of this.

>>713942267
Personally I thought it was a bit underwhelming because Clover only shows up at the VERY end and it kind of cheapened the impact of the ending for me

>>713940317
>seen
I prefer these things be playable. Animations acting like an actual game just bother me.

>>713941941
I mean sure but at this point you're just making fanfiction about a fan character. Which is funny because Kanako is liked more because of the fanfiction made about her than her game self

>>713943081
people expected more from Kanako since her conclusion is really anticlimatic

this is kinda fun

>>713944850
What's next, is he gonna defy gravity and keep his feet on the ground? Break the law and drive the speed limit?

>>713906547 (OP)
Why is she the Roba?

>>713945957
Why wouldn't she be?

>>713944569
there's honestly too much focus on chujin and kanako who are both dead already

>>713945480
he's drunk

>>713937902
is chinese Kanako's game still "alive" or is it dead yet again?

>>713941301
Would Kanako be as popular if she were a StarOba child? I'd imagine she would look like picrel

>>713947978
I thinks its finally dead for real.

>>713948231
Adult starNako would be super cute, so yes.

>>713941674
kanako can... arrange that.
just dont be surprised when she "overshoots"

>>713948231
is that a boy or a girl?

>>713949139
Which would rather it be?

>>713949336
boy
wich makes me wonder if Kanako would be as popular if she wasn't a girl

>>713918521
>>713929512
I'm sort of glade since it a miracle we got what we got and I got a feeling they'll mess it up somehow.... no I'm totally still not mad about the True Pacifist ending

>>713918521
Well fan cop- content

This game is so fucking stupid at the end you just fucking kill yourself for the monsters and reindeer bitch basically gets what she wants if you dont kill her but if you do starlo gets mad at you for doing so? fuck this game

>>713949462
m!Kanako would be heavily over shadowed by Asriel, Ralsei, and all the other furry boys in the series. Kanako is unique in that she's the only truly cute girl in the series that isn't gay or insane.

>>713949462
>>713949780
if male kanako existed everyone would probably move over to cloverXsadie

>>713949521
>reindeer bitch
Who?

>>713941301

>>713935489

How long do you guys think this thread'll last? Think it'll make the entire weekend?

>>713906547 (OP)
Faggot troon game. Will not breed game. Parasite and irreciprocal game.

>>713951820
Yellow was made by a christian, anon. You're looking for the Deltarune thread down the hall.

>>713934304
Lack of fags in the actual game, dalv x starlo is proof that people will force a trademark gay ship no matter how stupid it is

>>713951754
I love the implication here that anons would rather their mom murder them then sleep with Sans.

>>713950971
This fetish is the single greatest thing the UT fandom has given the world.

>>713952153
to be fair if i knew my mom was going to fuck a random stranger (thats been a dick to me for the past three days) and keep me up all night with it i'd much rather prefer she just kills me.

>>713950971
God I wish there was a version of this with Ceroba

>>713953385
Ceroba with Chujin's urn

>>713950971
>>713952285
Wasn't it from Snootgame, though?

>>713952153
>>713953074
To be fair, Ceroba was actually a fairly good mother to Kanako while Chujin was alive, she only fucked things up once she had to worry about carrying on Chujin's work with the serum, which clouded her judgement. In comparison, Toriel let Chara and Asriel make a suicide pact without noticing or intervening, and then let 7 humans leave the ruins to go get killed by Asgore or other monsters in general. Toriel's kind of a bad caretaker, but she's much more passively bad, as opposed to Ceroba, who was a pretty good caretaker up until she made a really shitty active decision.

>>713953627
No, it was originally a Noelle image. The Janet(deer) image came after.

>>713953619
Ah, the return of !jar Papyrus, of course.

>>713952153
People were comparing Toriel and the Roba even from just Undertale and UTY. It was a question of whether 0-2 or 2-8 (counting Kris Deltarune as a child that lived) is a more damning track record
Toriel Deltarune sleeping with Sans Deltarune is just the cherry on top that pushed over some fencesitters. Ceroba Deltarune Yellow is a loving wife and mother, even if she's too stupid to put on some shoes when traveling downtown

Carol would've been a better wife for Chujin.
Roba would've been a better wife for Asgore.
Toriel can go work on her cirrhosis.

4chan fanon Kanako is literally the most boring tradwife woman imaginable.

>>713953813
How much of DRY Ceroba is there? I don't think I've actually seen too much of her from that.

>>713953794
The return of what?

>>713953874
fanon Kanako is a spoiled possessive fujo with a fat fetish and anger issues.

>>713953861
Toriel gets what she deserves with Sans. A fat lazy midget who eats a lot and gets on everybody's nerves.

>>713953905
I don't think there's any fanart of her whatsoever, we barely have any art of DRY Cole and Kanako. If you mean in-game, DRY1 has two scenes with her

>>713934304
Do people actually give a shit about Dalv? The fucking dancing luchador left a bigger impression on me than that guy

>>713953929
Damn, do people not remember that anymore?
Well, to refresh your memory, it was an AU version of Papyrus created by Zarla, the same person behind Handplates. The gist of it is that Sans dies of a terminal illness, somehow, and that basically just breaks Papyrus mentally, and he starts carrying Sans' dust around in a jar all the time, talking to it, sometimes acting like it's still Sans and whatnot. I brought it up because the idea of Ceroba acting like (>>713950971) but with an urn of Chujin's dust reminded me of that.

>>713953874
>he wasnt here for the fat fetish greens
oh you poor innocent tourist...

>>713954519
Some of those greens were the funniest shit I've read in a long while, I still kinda want a continuation of that one where Starlo goes to check out what happened to the Ketsukanes against Axis' warnings.

>>713954350
People have been shitposting about Roba sleeping with Chujin's dust for months. I don't know how you didn't notice it until now.

>>713954671
Have they? I've been in most of these threads for the past few months, and I haven't seen too much of that. Anyway, I still think the dustjar comparison is apt.

>>713954593
eh i didnt like THOSE ones. saying this as a fat fetishist myself lmao
i prefer the ones where its kanako messing with clover/cole and barely containing herself.

>>713908642
>>713909492
>>713916780
>>713915089
yellow flowey shouldn't even fucking exist retards

>>713954996
Oh boy, is it you again? Are we back to doing this again?

>>713954519

>>713954996
he shouldnt, no.
but his presence arguably improves the game so its acceptable.

>>713954923
I see your DRY Kanako fat fetish green and raise you this UTY Kanako fat fetish green.

...Okay, I got a sort of answer a few threads back, but I really need to know, what caused all this? Why is it such a common idea (at least in these threads) for Kanako to have a fat fetish? Where did that come from, what's the patient zero here?
This doesn't even feel like those posts about Susie's tail being an erogenous zone or anything, since that at least has *some* minuscule in-game basis based on how she hides her tail or whatever, I can't possibly imagine what in-game text could support or even vaguely hint at the idea of Kanako having a fat fetish. Please, someone, enlighten me here.

>>713955345
i think it was that green you just posted. just some anon shitposting and it spiraling from there.

>>713955414
Nah, that green's from january 29th 2024, there are fat fetish greens on the archive from a week or so before that at least.

>>713955071
Here's one pal, go nuts.
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/664265482/#q664285805

>>713955528
yeah i was there since the beginning, it was really just some shitposting

>>713955060
dunno, are you going to seethe and cope over the truth?
>>713955084
just make a different character be his role.

>>713955641
then the neutral finale wouldnt be as good.

>>713953874
I find it funny because of the idea that both of her parents being so evil and retarded caused an integer underflow and made her extremely smart and nice.

>>713956032
its literally fine, just add a monster that can do whatever the fuck flowey does, because the game gets worse every time you die and he reloads instead of just taking your available soul for himself. it gets stupider and stupider the longer it goes on.

>>713956363
he cant take the soul because it literally just shatters.
this is why he cant do that shit in undertale and try to snatch you before a reset.

>>713954163
Fujos only pretend to care about Dalv so they can ship him with other men (ie. Starlo). Truthfully, they only care about their interpretation of Dalv.

But here's a real blackpill.
The same could be said about Kanako. People will project their idea of Kanako while ignoring who she really was, a hollow plot device. Like Dalv, you can't say she has much of a personality.

>>713956363
Having it just be Flowey works fine, making up an entirely new character with Flowey's exact abilities and goals and motivations would be completely stupid, since you'd then need to address who they actually are and what happens to them for them to not be in UT. There aren't actually that many issues with Flowey in UTY, some people just can't accept what the game tells them and insist that it ruins everything.

>>713956425
>spoiler
to be fair thats why both of our devanons exist.
we want her to be more than a hollow plot device, she could have been more, she was explicitly set up to be more.

>>713956542
>explicitly set up to be more.
Ah shit, here we go again.

>>713956040
Chujin isn't retarded, he just has very little regard for safety or ethics.

>>713956542
both of our DRYanons*

>>713956425
With Kanako most people know that she's nothing but a hollow plot device when she could've and should've been so much more.

>>713956616
EVERYTHING before martlet saying "THE ROBA WENT TO NEW HOME!" was setting us up to go to the lab to resolve the kanako plotline.
this singular point was the main driver behind most takes here for a different ending, including godotanon who tried to make a fangame about it.
it completely dominated discussion in the early threads.
it was the main driver in a lot of discussion outside of here too, with only genuine retards thinking otherwise.
then comes the first anniversary with the devs saying "nope that was never the plan!"
it'd be like chapter 6 suddenly dropping the dess and conspiracy plot threads and revealing PAPYRUS KNIGHT with him only doing it for the lolz

>>713954163
Dalv is probably the most poorly remembered character relative to screentime (and the game's own popularity) in any official or unofficial UTDR game
Whenever I think about potential alternate UTY takes I eventually get to the part where I remember Dalv exists and it makes me want to stop thinking about it because the character is a literal nothing but takes up about a fifth of the game, and there's hardly anything else in his section so you can't just shift focus to something else without writing something entirely new for the Ruins

Dalv had a fucking seven year headstart on all the other major characters (being charitable to Dalv) and still has much less fanart than even minor characters. I'm pretty sure the honeydew inn shopkeeper has more fanart than Dalv

>>713956418
>he cant take the soul because it literally just shatters.
that's not how it works in lore either.
>this is why he cant do that shit in undertale and try to snatch you before a reset.
no, he cant do that in undertale because we have the option to save and load. in undertale the shattering soul is only a death effect, that leads to the game over screen. should you choose not to play, the monsters will have gotten your soul. maybe flowey, maybe asgore, doesn't really matter since you are dead.
>>713956495
make different abilities and different goals and have them be different but serve the same role. not that hard.
>since you'd then need to address who they actually are and what happens to them for them to not be in UT.
you mean the job of being a writer for the game you want to be interesting?
>There aren't actually that many issues with Flowey in UTY, some people just can't accept what the game tells them and insist that it ruins everything.
it literally does. flowey and the souls work a certain way, as soon as you die, the soul appears above you. it doesn't need things like kindness or whatever to exist like monster souls which last only briefly if you are a boss. the shattering effect is a conceit toby added so he can float the refused joke. Once you refuse to reload, the soul is there for the taking. However flowey is the one in control, so the choice not to absorb the soul becomes his. lets say you favor his retarded excuse. that would mean the monsters should have ZERO souls, because all of them would have shattered. this would mean flowey effectively would not even fucking exist in the first place.

unlike redditors I dont play games to turn my brain off. I play them to engage it.

>>713957008
>>713954163
Have you ever seen someone trying to tell a joke, only to fail so bad that people don't even understand it was a joke so they can't even pretend to laugh out of politeness? Well, that's what Dalv was, in my opinion.
>mysterious robed figure meets you in the Ruins
>he has horns
>he sounds like Asgore
>he talks about some traumatic past experience with a human
>who could it be?
>oh right, it's just some random vampire who happens to have horns for some reason
Come on, am I really the only one who thought they were trying to trick people into thinking it's Asriel?

>>713956950
Buddy, it being the focus behind a lot of discussion behind the game doesn't mean that it's what the game itself was actually centered around. That's like saying original UT is all about Gaster because he completely dominated discussion for that game way back in the early days, that's just not how that works.
Kanako herself was never built up as being important directly, she was only ever shown as being important specifically regarding the motivations and actions of certain specific characters, not as an important character herself.
I've said it before and I'll say it as many times as I need to, but expecting Kanako to actually show up in UTY's pacifist route is basically the equivalent of expecting Chara to show up in UT's pacifist route. Kanako and Chara are both important characters for their respective stories, but not directly. They both serve to provide other characters with their motivations and backstories, but they themselves just aren't relevant on a personal character level.

>>713956617
The Steamworks show that he was retarded, just much less so than Ceroba.

>>713957275
>Once you refuse to reload, the soul is there for the taking. However flowey is the one in control, so the choice not to absorb the soul becomes his.
How do you know Flowey doesn't absorb your soul if you refuse to reload? You don't, obviously, because you literally can't be there for that. That kind of outcome is mutually exclusive with actually being able to see and interact with the world, so you can never see it. But, by virtue of implication, which is what about 99% of your wall of text is riding on anyway, that outcome has to happen as long as you never pick up the game again, so problem solved.
Happy?

>>713953653
Wouldnt encouraging your kid into suicide be worse than simply not noticing because your kid had an entire 5D chess move planned out behind your back that involved them suiciding in a slow way so that they have time to make a "dying wish" (its simply being taken to the village to see the flowers in there, which was required so that asriel would be attacked and feel forced to defend himself by destroying the village with his full power) as part of their mysterious plan that toriel wouldnt have a fuckin idea about?

>>713957361
> That's like saying original UT is all about Gaster because he completely dominated discussion for that game way back in the early days, that's just not how that works.
stopped reading there
your comparison is wrong at its foundation because the main plot of undertale didnt revolve around trying to put gaster back together.
kanako on the other hand is arguably the most important character with ties to everyone, being the main driver for most character actions once you get to the wild east, being the central focus once you get to the steamworks (ceroba going to the true lab because kanako is there), and you being led to believe that the lab is your next destination between the steamworks and saying that ceroba went to new home.

>>713957546
>How do you know Flowey doesn't absorb your soul if you refuse to reload?
we know flowey doesn't do so in yellow because according to the bad lore of that game hes the one reloading and not the player
as for what would happen if you let your soul free in actual undertale with it's writing, whether flowey could get it first or not depends entirely upon asgore but he would probably manage to get it.
>You don't, obviously, because you literally can't be there for that.
we know this is what happens to a soul because it's happened 6 times before your play through.
>so you can never see it. But, by virtue of implication, which is what about 99% of your wall of text is riding on anyway,
I'm glad you admitted and conceeded that you never played undertale. thanks.

>>713957361
>Kanako herself was never built up as being important directly
not the guy you're arguing with but I disagree, I really thought the game was setting up to save kanako, the bait and switch at the end of the steamworks just kinda soured it for me, but back then I excused as the devs just cutting content after 7 years
the way they addressed it in the anniversary stream really made me lose some respect I had for them

>>713953813
Most of the people acting like toriel moving on is a big deal are mostly just people with alcoholic parents projecting their feelings onto toriel despite her not doing anything egregiously bad if you look at toriel's actions from her pov (toriel has no idea of what the dark worlds are and she would trust in susie to take care of kris while hanging out)

>>713957275
one thing you're forgetting is that flowey doesnt know where the other five souls are.
its canon in undertale that he's torn the whole place up and STILL couldnt find the damn souls because asgore has them that well hidden.
one human soul might as well be useless to him if he cant get the others.
... its also been shown that when he last resorts to absorbing you in neutral he's incapable of forcing the soul to merge. so yknow...

>>713957614
I mean, Asriel and Chara literally recorded their discussions about the plan on camera, as seen (heard) on the tapes in the true lab, so I feel like Toriel (and also Asgore, he's at fault here too) don't have too much of an excuse. Also, Chara was kinda pretty clearly evil, what with the whole being-able-to-melt-their-face-on-command thing.
>Wouldnt encouraging your kid into suicide be worse
I'm assuming by "your kid" you mean with Kanako, and yeah, that's definitely the worse active decision here, but again, she only did that because of the pressure of carrying on Chujin's project and not having any other viable test subjects, if Chujin hadn't gotten himself killed or simply decided not to hand the project over to Ceroba, she never would've been in the kind of situation for that to happen, and things would've been fine. Yeah, that's more of a circumstantial argument than a moral one, but I think it's worth thinking about.
As it stands, when circumstances are normal, I'd say Ceroba is probably the better caretaker than Toriel, and this isn't even bringing up DR Toriel, who, Sans-related choices aside, also made some pretty questionable parenting decisions.

>>713955345
Is it not normal to headcanon different characters having different fetishes??

>>713957410
His inventions would have worked if they just waited through the violently malfunctioning prototype phase. All his other inventions did.

>>713958183
you probably shouldnt bring a robot that violently malfunctions to the king of your nation.

>>713957884
>one thing you're forgetting is that flowey doesnt know where the other five souls are.
he doesn't need them. he can kill asgore and leave with the one soul he has and get more.
>it's also shown that the devs lazily patched over the bad writing without a care
I'm aware, it's not meaningful.

I beat Zenith Marty last night but I gotta be honest, I feel like her fight does a really shit job at teaching you how to deal with some of her attacks. I couldn't dodge the feather shotguns for shit so I kinda just had to resort to spamming back and forth diagonal dodges. The shooter segments were mostly fine but timing the dodges was pretty irritating/the dodge's movement is really awkward since it's also dependent on button press duration.
Sans and Undyne's geno fights at least lead you into the harder shit outside of Sans' opener which is of course, the opener so you can keep trying it until you get used to it.

>>713958183
So why did he constantly present his unfinished prototypes to the king? It still doesn't change the fact that he only got a "you tried" award.

>>713958312
out of curiosity, why do you enter threads for games you do not like, human avatarfag?
mad that you got called out for avatarfagging in the deltarune threads?

>>713957410
Chujin is 40 INT 4 WIS incarnate.
Ceroba is more like 10 INT 2 WIS.

>>713957678
>we know this is what happens to a soul because it's happened 6 times before your play through.
No, we don't. The exact circumstances of the deaths of the other 6 humans in UT are actually pretty vague. For one, not a single one of the human's equipment can actually be found anywhere near Asgore or the castle in New Home (save for the locket and real knife, which are associated with Chara and not any of the humans Asgore would've been trying to kill), which could easily imply that Asgore hasn't actually been responsible for killing any of the fallen humans, and that they were all just picked off by other random monsters or potentially royal guards throughout the underground, and if that's the case, then we literally can't say anything for certain about their deaths. I mean, if Asgore had been the one to take down each of the 6 fallen humans before Frisk came along, do you really think he would just have their belongings scattered aimlessly through the underground, as opposed to leaving them with the neatly prepared coffins he had set up for them?
We don't know exactly how the various humans were killed, it's ambiguous, which is part of why fangames like UTY are possible in the first place, because the original game left enough wiggle room for stories like that to have happened in the background.
Maybe the souls were gathered after their respective hosts were damaged enough for them to die, or maybe there was some special process to it. The only human in UT whose death we actually know the exact circumstances of is Chara, who died from poisoning after eating a lethal amount of buttercups. Unlike every potential damage source in UT, this would've damaged their body, as opposed to damaging their soul directly. If that's the case, it makes sense to say that this could potentially be what allowed Chara's soul to be harvested intact and absorbed by Asriel, since Chara's body is what gave out, and not their soul.

>>713958415
>recruiterreading Martlet's application to join the royal guard

>>713958312
he doesn't need them. he can kill asgore and leave with the one soul he has and get more.
Hm, I wonder why Flowey of all people might think that a single human soul might not be enough to take on the humans outside the barrier, and therefore might want more souls as insurance before going through with something like that?
Something to think about.

>>713958415
I wouldn't say that Chujin was a genius, he was an okay engineer, but ultimately he overestimated his talents way too much (and Ceroba only encouraged it even more).

>>713957627
Alright, for a better comparison, this is like arguing that UT's pacifist route was meant to be all about Chara, given how much they're alluded to and how important they are to various character's backstories.

>>713957361
Kanako is more equivalent to Asriel both in terms of importance to the back story and in terms of framing, which is why people expected her to get the Asriel treatment. But even if she were Chara, Chara at least got something. Kanako gets swept under the rug.

>>713958663
you almost made a good comparison, but: asriel.

>>713957929
Isnt it likely that asriel hid the tapes somewhere so asgore and toriel couldnt figure the plan out before its carried out? I doubt chara would see asriel recording their conversations and never think about telling asriel to hide the tapes away despite all the planning they put into this
As for kanako, ceroba didnt really hesitate that much when kanako asked her to jab the untested syringe into her child, and ceroba isnt really portrayed as a good or competent mother, most of steamworks is just her going "I was too retarded to think about checking the other rooms to find a lever or something to open the door instead of standing in front of this screen, time to let the child solve every puzzle for me i guess", she doesnt even do anything particularly useful in the battles, toriel would actually help clover if she was going through steamworks with clover.

Why does UTY make some autists seethe so hard? It's not canon anyway

>>713958490
the only "evidence" we have is that toby tweet saying asgore killed them all, but then he said that all tweets arent canon and reiterated that with DR recently saying "only what is in game is canon"
also asgore's text as lost soul in asriel's battle implies he has at least killed one human
we also know integrity likely died in that room in waterfall since we can actually find dialogue of her if you put an echo flower there via hacking

>>713958768
Some people get really upset when anything challenges their idea of what's canon and what's not, and seeing a fangame have a different interpretation of what's canon sets that off.

>>713958296
>>713958356
Becuase he was convinced it was a matter of life and death, and that there was still a killer human on the loose in the underground. He had no way of knowing that Asgore was actually against killing all humans.

>>713958490
>Hm, I wonder why Flowey of all people might think that a single human soul might not be enough to take on the humans outside the barrier, and therefore might want more souls as insurance before going through with something like that?
>Something to think about.
unnessicary because he will have more determination due to already possessing his own source of soulless determination. he can just reload until he gets the souls. even if he can,t he can hold onto yellows soul and just wait for frisk to show up and have advantage. basically you are double quadrouple wrong and coping
>>713958490
>>713958392
>no we don't
play the fucking game.

Honestly at this point I think part of why UTY fascinates me so much is that it comes off a bit like Fallout New Vegas discussions where a good amount of it is discussing the characters and the morality behind them. Undertale simply created the foundation. The lack of closure with Kanako only makes it more discussable, similar to the tons of 'saving Asriel' fanfic scenarios on the market.
Though, that being said it's weird because I do consider UTY to be 'mediocrely written', its just that the scenario it creates and some interesting character beats like Roba's whole thing of putting Chujin on a pedestal really feels like a concept worth exploring more. There's just so much untapped potential. Martlet and Dalv felt underutilized, especially when Dalv is held up as 'the fourth' when he really did fuckall compared to Toriel in their segments of the game.

>>713957929
UT Toriel may not be perfect either, but she does tell you to sit still and wait until she comes back to you, and her fight is meant to be a test of strength to see if you can survive, you could argue that beating frisk into staying is bad, but to give her the benefit of doubt, she lived in isolation for years and doesnt want another child to die, and later in the battle changes her mind when you win, so at worst she's a little bit unstable and clingy, but not schizo-levels of insane like how media like horrortale or whatever would portray her as

>>713958603
And yet he surpassed Alphys's robotics research, and independently recreated Gaster's and Alphys's DT research in his basement with no prior education in the field.

>>713958736
>she doesnt even do anything particularly useful in the battles,
Aht, Ceroba gives you that energy shield thing that lets you tank one hit of damage for some of the fights in The Steamworks. Yeah, that's not a lot, but given that she says she doesn't want to damage any of the various robots in The Steamworks, it's something.
I don't care enough to argue about any of that other stuff for too much longer though, I just think personally it can kinda go either way as to who's the better actual parent.

>>713958974
this post is exactly what I was getting at here when calling UTY shit
>>713957275
flowey could have been anything other than flowey in UTY if the writer had any kind of chops. toby made a fan made sex doll into a character for christ sakes.

>>713959117
She could try to ACT, or at least burn away the flowers in the buttons during the guardener fight

>>713959114
>And yet he surpassed Alphys's robotics research
Anon... Alphys is a fraud. Her only robot is Mettaton and he's not even actually a robot.

>>713959121
see >>713958392

>>713959185
see>>713955641

>>713959114
>and independently recreated Gaster's and Alphys's DT research in his basement with no prior education in the field.
he didnt extract determination though, he extracted something else from the soul, closer to the essence of it
its why kanako fell down instantly and her soul became blue, amalgamates were with pure DT with no soul essence

>>713959240
alright then bitch, i want (YOU) to design and explain a character that'd better fit the role than flowey.

>>713959114
I wouldn't say Chujin surpassed Alphys' research when it comes to robotics, at least not in the engineering aspect of things. Mettaton is practically invincible and is capable of lowering you to 1 hp with just one attack in his base form, making him easily more powerful than anything Chujin ever built. Granted, Chujin beats out Alphys by virtue of Axis being an actual AI, and not just a mechanical vessel piloted by a robot, but Axis isn't exactly a very good AI, and he's still designed worse on a mechanical level.
As for his DT research, I wouldn't say he really progressed to the same level that Gaster and Alphys did, and his research ended up literally being the death of him, so there's that.

For the sake of this thread, please ignore avatarfags from now on. Especially for characters who don't even appear in UTY.

>>713959114
>>713959181
Alphys' robot platform was more solid, but she cheated with software.
>independently recreated Gaster's and Alphys's DT research in his basement
Except we don't know if his serum even did anything besides poisoning monsters. He just deluded himself into thinking he's going somewhere with it.

>>713959175
She literally says that she can't move at all in the beginning of that fight when all your buttons are covered.
You know, I'm surprised I haven't seen someone make an image of her all bound up in Guardner's vines or something. Closest I've seen is that one image of Flowey doing it.

>>713959293
I'd pin that more on his lack of a giant demonic deer skull to extract the DT with. If he hadn't died he likely would've gone down the same path Gaster did with a DT extractor after realizing the impure serum was a no go.

>>713958974
>Fallout New Vegas discussions where a good amount of it is discussing the characters and the morality behind them.
That's unfair to UTY. FNV is a shallow, mediocre game, despite being carried by being a sequel to the first two games. The NCR are Californians, so they made the Legion completely retarded instead of an interesting villain faction.

>>713959470
>The NCR are Californians, so they made the Legion completely retarded instead of an interesting villain faction.
Eh, I'm no legionfag myself, but they do actually have a few valid points when it comes to rebuilding and managing a society in those kinds of conditions. Having a strong, centralized government does have a historical basis for being an effective societal structure, with the Roman empire being the most obvious example of a powerful empire that lasted a long time, largely through extreme brutality towards anyone who would oppose or otherwise not fall in line with them.
That ain't the point of this thread though.

>>713959470
Hey, I didn't say anything about the QUALITY of FNV itself, only the nature of discussions around it. I'm neutral to it myself, but my point's that even with the Legion completely castrated partially due to authorial bias, partially due to devtime issues, despite all of that, the discussion around the NCR, House and the Legion is still one of the more compelling parts of the game outside of the game itself, which I felt dissatisfied by in some ways (re: weird shit like the Radio mountain somehow being relevant enough for a credits scene despite not really adding anything to the world).
The thing about some games is that you either have boring mediocrity where the whole experience feels generic and uninspiring, and then you have mediocrity with moments of intrigue and brilliance, that get you hooked because you think about the possible existence of a product that had realized its fullest potential, the story of something that could have been. That's what I've been feeling about UTY.

>>713959181
Alphys built an elaborate mechanical body for Mettaton. Even if it was just an inanimate shell without him inside, the EX form is still a technical marvel. Plus there's all those other things she made like the jetpack phone, the wireless dimensional boxes, flowey, and the dt working serum. Her problem is the opposite of Chujin's. Instead of refusing to see her own faults, she sees nothing but them, and ignores her actual achievements.

>>713957275
Avatarfag I am begging you to not shit up yellow threads with these inane arguments.
>in undertale the shattering soul is only a death effect
and it's acknowledged in the Asriel fight with "but it refused" as a pun of it refusing to die, and literally refusing when it was about to be broken. Said shattering effect is the same one that happens to Toriel's and Asgore's SOUL, which is explicitly shown in Asgore's case to make it impossible to be retrieved for Frisk to cross the barrier, partially due to Flowey's intervention. It's an easy and simple connection to make, and can imply that simply extracting and containing a SOUL from someone refusing to give it up as a tricky and delicate task. Yellow doesn't acknowledge it this way, but arguing about the presentation of a fangame is retarded when trying to argue about the inconsistensies of lore.

You just have to accept that they're working with their interpretation of the rules of the setting, including the idea that Flowey even existed when other SOULs fell down. His existence in Yellow is only a sin in the fact that every prequel fangame now is inserting him into their stories for the sake of it, which is ruining the novelty of Flowey's role in Yellow by making him a new trope to lift from something popular, instead of being a way to give a character with very little screentime in Undertale a slightly more proactive role.

>>713959414
She can use her hands

Honestly, what Alphys/Chujin/Whoever should've done is just mass produce a bunch of strong, durable robots, and then send them out beyond the barrier and have them rain down on humanity on the surface, Armored Core Nexus style.

>>713959338
> Mettaton is practically invincible
But is that the body doing that or the ghost? Remember that ghosts are invincible. Even if it is the body, Mettaton is a giant block of steel. Axis is much smaller and more mechanically complex.
> and is capable of lowering you to 1 hp with just one attack in his base form
When does this happen?
>As for his DT research, I wouldn't say he really progressed to the same level that Gaster and Alphys did, and his research ended up literally being the death of him, so there's that.
Alphys only survived because she killed a couple dozen other people instead, and Gaster died in the immediate following research project. So dying of science doesn't appear to be a good metric of intelligence, just a measure of hubris.

>>713959862
nothing can leave the barrier without a human and monster soul

>>713959904
I dunno, light and sound can apparently pass through just fine, so I don't see why an inanimate, unmanned drone wouldn't be able to, but maybe it follows sci-fi energy shield rules, where things past a certain mass can't pass through (without a human and monster soul, anyway.).
I feel like it's an avenue worth experimenting with.

>>713959389
>Except we don't know if his serum even did anything besides poisoning monsters. He just deluded himself into thinking he's going somewhere with it.
We see from Zartet that his theory was sound. The flaw was his methodology. If he just had more time to develop it and subjects aside from himself to test on, he could've refined his process and made a working serum.

Remember that he was specifically trying to use his own body to refine the raw serum so he could create that boss monster serum. It might be that if he had the funding to build a DT extractor he never would've needed to do that in the first place.

>>713960054
>We see from Zartet that his theory was sound
Unless you're arguing for the actual correct version of the story that should have happened, isn't it shown Martlet got her serum by stealing from Alphys?

>>713959862
That was my idea for Mettaton ending postquel. Alphys becomes the leader of the Resistance, and her goal is to continue Asgore's genocidal plan, but she built herself a giant mecha to kill the humans.

>>713960007
>I dunno, light and sound can apparently pass through just fine
They go in just fine, we never see them go out. The closest we get is the phone call at the end of UT, which would be using a form of light to carry the signal, but even then light has no mass, so that's probably why it could pass through while physical objects can't. The real answer is that Toby didn't think about it and he intended the barrier to be impassible by anything without a human and monster soul.

>>713959862
You don't even understand things like chokepoints and tanks. Kill yourself, ACfag.

>>713960163
His theory was that the essence of human souls could be used to turn regular monsters into boss monsters. Even if Alphys made the serum which Martlet used, it still operates on the same principle, and proves his theory to be true. He only failed because his serum was impure.

>>713960339
Sorry, my ambiguously-sized mech outputs enough radiation to level an entire city block from pure energy, your realistic mechanized warfare strategy means nothing to me.

>>713960339
>>713960490
Both of you are fools, my max level high functioning psychopath tanks your weapons' attacks and then atomizes them with a firm slap because determination trumps all.

>>713960303
Eh, who knows. If nothing else, it would at least still work as an invasion plan once the barrier is down.

>>713960419
Martlet wasn't turning herself into a boss monster, she injected herself with a Determination extract to become Undyne the Undying on steroids, and she met the same fate of melting into a puddle after a short time.

>>713960490
You're retarded. You got proven wrong in discussions about the value of chokepoints and in discussions about vidya tanks. The monsters don't even have Armoured Core-type robots. The best that they have is a ghost possessing a metal box/doll and a robot that jobs to a particularly angry child.

>>713960780
Only Mettaton EX/NEO job to Frisk, Mettaton's base form is, according to all in-game evidence and text, actually invincible on a human scale. Yeah, I'm sure *something* could damage Mettaton in his base form, but nothing Frisk could do could put a dent in it.

>>713960739
What's the functional difference between Undyne the undying and a boss monster? Sure she'll melt from DT eventually (supposedly), but before then they're functionally identical. Incredibly powerful monster which draws its power from its high amounts of determination.

>>713960885
Mettaton is a metal box, while Frisk is a child with weak weapons. Militaries have stronger equipment available to then.

>>713960885
We never see if Mettaton would survive a hit from a high level Frisk. Sure he has 999 defense, but that's only -125 damage from an attack. Frisk regularly deals damage in the thousands by then.

>>713961070
The main difference between a boss monster and all other kinds of monsters is that boss monster's souls persist for a while after death, whereas all other kinds of monster's souls vanish alongside their bodies when they die. That, and boss monsters are apparently immortal until they have children.
Any differences outside of that are, to my knowledge, conjecture, I don't recall whether or not there are any inherent stat differences between boss monsters and normal monsters that wouldn't just come about over time from being immortal.

>>713961152
Yeah, but Mettaton's other forms are still made out of metal, and LV 1 Frisk can damage his other forms just fine, even his EX form in a pacifist route.

>>713961070
the functional difference is juat that Undyne wasn't born a Boss Monster, so the rules of her body dictate that Determination melts her. We don't know why Boss Monsters don't melt despite having more Determination, but it's at least clear it's still not enough for their SOULs to remain outside the body forever, unlike Human SOULs, so in theory it could just be a finely tuned balance of Determination that's right on the cusp of what Monsters can realistically take. But being real about it, they're likely quite literally just built different.

>>713959838
This was a damn good response, the avatarfag hasn't made a peep since you posted this. Thank you for your service.

>>713961164
There really should be porn of the zenith transformation itself. Just imagine the possibilities.

>>713961546
I was gonna say "you serious?", but she only has about 91 hits on e6, so fair enough.

>>713961328
>>713961274
But what Chujjn wants out of the boss monster serum isn't soul longevity or immortality. What he wants is to make an army of super strong monsters to fight a war against the humans with. For that purpose a Undyne and Zartlet really are just as good.

>>713961687
Eh, Undyne the undying and Zenith Martlet weren't apparently strong enough to get the job done, but maybe that's just because they were ostensibly fighting time-travelers with unlimited do-overs.

>>713959181
>>713958603
Alphys and Chujin are both autistic savants who are good at certain things but have blind spots that they don't know how to and possibly don't care to correct.

Chujin figured out how to do complex autonomous robotics whose intelligence and agency far surpasses the Jandroids and even Guardener, while packing enough firepower into them to kill a human. He also made headway into Determination research despite having no funding or cooperation with other scientists. He refused to ever consider safety when making bold decisions, though, and this caused him to lose first his job and second his life when some more time, patience and perhaps outside help could have allowed him to perfect it.

Alphys is an outright genius when it comes to building tech and can create successful products without thinking too hard about it; she upgrades your phone with ease, she built various traps around Hotland etc. Even when she fails e.g. Mettaton going turncoat, the amalgamates, she puts a lot more caution into her experiments. However, in the cases where she doesn't succeed she will try to fudge the results to look better, lie outright and cover up all the evidence, or forge on ahead making things worse and worse in an attempt to keep the charade going.

Where Chujin's persistence leads to success after he's ruined his chances for recognition, Alphys succeeds more quickly but her personality spirals her into catastrophic failure in situations that could be avoided with simple communication.

If the two ever worked together, they would probably be able to, on paper, help mitigate each other's flaws. Alphys would help Chujin's projects start on better footing, Chujin could steer Alphys in the right direction when hiccups appear, etc.

I say "on paper" because I'm convinced these two would FUCKING HATE each other and be fundamentally incompatible people. Which would be enjoyable to watch which is why I'm writing it but completely dysfunctional.

>>713961687
They are, the issue is Alphys' and Chujin's research are both flawed. One kills you before it even gets to do anything, and another will kill you after a while. In the latter's case, even if they used it as is, right before attacking humans, they'd at best get one good fight in before eventually metling together, and if the amalgamates are anything to go by then that's not going to be easy to control even if they find any level stability like Reaper Bird or Lemon Bread.

>>713961686
I don't mean porn of zenith martlet. I mean porn of Martlet transforming into her zenith form.

>>713961826
Oh, that's way more specific. Yeah, can't really say I've seen that before, but I do see the vision.

>>713961765
The monsters are just helpless against the humans regardless of what they do. It doesn't matter how many boss monsters or super robots they have, the human will always win because he has determination. He only loses when he gives up. Even if they have the souls, all the human has to do is convince the souls in the monster's possession to rebel.

>>713906547 (OP)
Honestly I was wondering to see how these threads would feel about UTY not being a thing anymore, and I'm kind of surprised to see how accepting people are. I do think it''s wrong to say that it's just because of faggots acting retarded when it comes to being critical because masterswrd and aero both admit that those sorts of things are mostly just annoying than anything else.
I find it fair for it to simply be due to wanting to move onto original things and not desiring to deal with anymore potential stress with Materia collective's bullshit.

>>713961813
>One kills you before it even gets to do anything, and another will kill you after a while.
You say that, but we haven't seen it tested sufficiently. The only data we have are monsters who were already dying, and we know that monsters' bodies become unstable when they die. It could simply be that the determination melting them is just it doing the best it can to hold them together after they dissolve. Remember that we only see Undyne melt after we utterly brutalize her body twice. If she achieved her transformed state without being killed first perhaps she wouldn't melt at all. We see Zartlet did a lot better than Undyne despite having even more determination added to her system.

>>713961769
>He also made headway into Determination research despite having no funding or cooperation with other scientists.
As I said - we don't know if his sovl research had any merit or it was a complete bunk. All that we've seen is a serum that poisoned him and Kanako. Alphys actually produced some tangible results in that area, even if said results were a complete disaster.

>>713961947
> the human will always win because he has determination.
Well, I mean, obviously that isn't true, for about 6 technicolor, jar-contained reasons.
>all the human has to do is convince the souls in the monster's possession to rebel.
Not necessarily true. While it is true that Frisk/The Player convinces the 6 human souls to rebel against Flowey at the end of the neutral route, this same strategy doesn't apparently work against Asriel in the pacifist route, since he had to be beaten by appealing to him directly, as opposed to getting the various souls to turn on him. Yes, I know you also restore the souls of the various main cast members and get them out from Asriel's control, but they don't seem to actually do anything against Asriel himself.
Basically, it seems like the human souls can only act against their host when there's less than 7 of them, or when their host has under a certain amount of control over them. When Asriel has the equivalent of 7 human souls, he seems to have no problem exercising complete control over them, and only loses because the power itself just isn't enough to win against you, and that's only because you're the player.

>>713961919
just imagine human cum acting as a shot of determination. Then she gets breast expansion, ass expansion, an increase in height until she's a practically a giantess, and all the while the hapless and flustered Martlet shifts into a confident and determined Zartlet who's eager for round two

>>713962305
If this post was made like, a year ago, I could easily see someone coming in and drawing something for this. Probably sig.

>>713961769
>I say "on paper" because I'm convinced these two would FUCKING HATE each other and be fundamentally incompatible people. Which would be enjoyable to watch which is why I'm writing it but completely dysfunctional.
Alphys and Chujin turn the true lab into chernobyl

>>713962365
If I had less self respect I'd go out and commission it right now.

>>713962175
Not to put a damper on that idea, as much as I like it, but it's pretty explicitly stated that Determination makes a Monster's body melt because they quite literally don't have enough physical makeup to handle it. In cases of Undyne and Martlet, they hold together until enough time passes likely because of how much determination was affecting them. You can argue that it's because their HP is getting lowered, but it belies the fact that the "physical matter" info means it's only a matter of time before their body breaks down. Them holding it together is, narratively, just meant to be a cool shounen moment where they can kick ass for a short time.

And for a weird discrepancy between Undyne and Martlet, Undyne's determination was naturally generated from her own will to defeat you. In her own case it might even be a huge exception to how determination works since the amalgams were never recorded in Alphys' entries to have transformed, just suddenly woken up and then melted together. As a side, this is also kinda why Martlet using Alphys' injection bothers me, because one injection shouldn't theoretically be enough to do that when all it did was revivse some patients temporarily when they recieved many more doses than her.

>>713962539
Well, respect yourself less then.

>>713962561
>but it's pretty explicitly stated that Determination makes a Monster's body melt because they quite literally don't have enough physical makeup to handle it
That was most likely Toby's intent, but this is fanfiction. It doesn't really matter what he intended, just if it works narratively and if we can fit it in to the existing canon.

Its entirely possible Alphys was simply wrong and her theory was based on a false assumption she came up with in a panic. Maybe monsters really can survive determination under the correct circumstances. Maybe extreme emotions and a powerful will are what's needed to keep the determination from turning them to slush. Maybe a strong body helps too. Undyne and Martlet are both pretty strong by monster standards, and they both are feeling very strong emotions at the time. That's very different from the literal corpses Alphys was operating on. We also know that Undyne was alive for years carrying that determination around in her soul without melting. So maybe she had a much higher tolerance for DT.

>>713962848
I'm never going to be so bad that I'd willingly bum $100 off someone to commission furry transformation porn.

>>713963085
The intrusive thought will never go away.

>>713963085

>>713952153
Toriel has a way bigger body count (in both meanings of the term) and UT Toriel has the extra reponsability of being the Queen of the Underground which she failed completely in every single fucking way. If she wasn't a spite filled cunt who hated her people and saw proving her husband wrong as more important than saving the lives of both humans and monsters most of the bad things that happen in Undertale wouldn't have happened and this includes the entire tardfox drama.

>>713963138
>>713963205
>Hey mom, can I have a hundred dollars?
>What for?
>I wanted to commission some furry porn for some anonymous randos on 4chan!

>>713963030
>It doesn't really matter what he intended
It kind of does, but I won't deny that the rule is flexible to fit certain key moments. it still needs to fit within these rules while trying to bend them, which is why examples like Undyne in the original are under such emotionally strong, specifically non-injected circumstances.
>Its entirely possible Alphys was simply wrong and her theory was based on a false assumption she came up with in a panic
Given how it's also stated in lore books in the Librarby, I want to say it's a well understood rule, especially since they understand humans are in a technical sense 60% water. And I completely forgot that there's an entire thing with Undyne on Neutral routes where, if you kill her, she revives herself through determination. It's not as strong, and you actually can't hurt her at all, but she does still melt with enough time. I think there's just a big theme overall that monsters, with Determination, just can't last despite how much power it bestows. However, tangentially, it makes total sense that they could theoretically last longer if they aren't literally being beaten to death by something as long as the determination is potent and in high enough quantity. In Undyne's case it is really hard to determine how determined she is, but we at least know for sure she put aside her hatred for humans in that moment realising that even they need to be protected from whatever Frisk/Chara were trying to do. Whatever amount of Determination that was, it definitely comes off emotionally strong.

>>713963423
Uh huh, something like that, yeah.

>>713963423
I thought you had your own spare money.
>>713963496
Don't ask your parents for porn money holy shit.

>>713963423
You need to be 18 years or older to use this site
If you're 18 and don't have access to your bank account you should try to fix that. I'm not one of the anons telling you to commission porn, that's just generally good advice. I've met people who have had their savings stolen by asshole parents

>>713963568
Nah, what's the worst that could happen, do it.

>>713963480
>Given how it's also stated in lore books in the Librarby, I want to say it's a well understood rule
The books never mention mention determination nor do they say that monsters can't handle it. They only say that humans are mostly water while monsters are mostly magic and that makes monsters weak to emotions.
>I think there's just a big theme overall that monsters, with Determination, just can't last despite how much power it bestows.
We only ever see monsters melt after they've died. We have no recorded cases of perfectly healthy monsters receiving determination.
> it makes total sense that they could theoretically last longer if they aren't literally being beaten to death by something as long as the determination is potent and in high enough quantity
Even if we operate under your theory, what if the monster simply keeps making the will saves to stay solid and alive. Maybe there could be a monster who died, obtained an undying state, then won his battle. Then afterwards, he kept going, every time he was about to slip away and finally die, something pulled him back. Maybe some task not yet finished, maybe just the simple fear of death. Either way he forces his head above the metaphorical icy waters of death and gasps in another breath of life, buying himself another brief reprieve before death comes for him again. Only for him to repeat the cycle all over again when that happens.

>>713963568
>I thought you had your own spare money.
I'm posting about furry giantess tf porn in an Undertale fangame thread on /v/ at 3 am. Of course I have no life. What did you expect?
>>713963703
I have access to my bank account, its just empty because I'm a worthless neet.

>>713964289
Get a job nigga

>>713959321
I have my hands full making my own game. This is the equivalent of saying
>hey I dont want corn syrup in my food
>well prove you can make your own better syrup then!

>>713964575
if you have the creativity to dev, you have the creativity to come up with one character concept to replace a character you hate.

>>713964663
if they had the creativity to dev, they'd have the creativity to not bitch in a fangame thread that other anons don't agree with their headcanons

>>713959838
>n undertale the shattering soul is only a death effect
and it's acknowledged in the Asriel fight with "but it refused" as a pun of it refusing to die
I'm dumb founded. did you read anything I said? of course not.
>Said shattering effect is the same one that happens to Toriel's and Asgore's SOUL,
play the fucking game.
>hich is explicitly shown in Asgore's case to make it impossible to be retrieved for Frisk to cross the barrier
Anon... you fucking idiot.
> It's an easy and simple connection to make, and can imply that simply extracting and containing a SOUL from someone refusing to give it up as a tricky and delicate task.
I'm sure the arguement about a monster killing integrity in waterfall really fits your retarded take here.
>You just have to accept that they're working with their interpretation of the rules of the setting,
their interpretation is objectively impossible within the rules of the game. For hundreds of reasons you already got btfo on. Every single element of how flowey works is the gameplay platform undertale leans on. and your every arguement is usually not just wrong, but contradicted by writing that you obviously glossed over in the last 10 years and can no longer remember. Maybe try PLAYING THE GAME instead of just making up what you believe the characters to have said, they are surprisingly helpful.
> including the idea that Flowey even existed when other SOULs fell down.
never happened.
>His existence in Yellow is only a sin in the fact that every prequel fangame now is inserting him into their stories for the sake of it,
this is because they can't *Let go.
no different than inserting him into every UT sequal. As someone who consumes an incredible ammount of Fan content in general, UT is easily the worst fan base if you are hoping for well written or well considered anything. Even fan works that initially appeal to me completely go off the rails in a similar fashion.
>>713964663
anon you just eviscerated this game.

>>713964886
im not hearing that character concept, human avatarfag

>>713964947
not your personal army. make a better fangame. Preferably one where the antagonist isn't made to seem even dumber and more incompetent than asriel/flowey in UT. Imagine fucking up and missing 2+ maybe more humans. Imagine every one else in the underground just forgetting humans exist over a fucking month or so, including toriel. every single thing about UT blows yellow the fuck out, and the idea after 6 gorillion bad AUs yellow's is somehow sensible just because it's an effort post is brain meltingly stupid even for /v/

>>713964575
>I have my hands full making my own game.
No excuse. If you can't come up with character concepts on drop of a hat you just suck.

I can give multiple suggestions for Flowey replacements. The integrity soul could work. Have it existing as a disembodied soul puppeteering some object around while it pretends to be a monster. It could very easily be just as sadistic as Flowey, and would have the determination needed to bend the timeline. As to why its in a doll, and not its real body, it only got power over the timeline after gaining a lot of levels from all the horrible experiments Chujin performed on it, then it escaped when he died, possibly even killing him instead of him killing himself.

Another option is Chujin or a dust ghost version of him being the antagonist. Chujin died, but his dust spread over one of his robots, which brought him back to life as a soulless psychopath. He has determination which he extracted from integrity, but no soul, which is why he wants the ones Asgore has. He doesn't just take yours because his current body isn't fit for combat and he needs all of the souls to restore himself Asriel style. At the end of the game he gets an upgraded body and uses it to try and take the souls by force, but dies to you in some way that removes the DT from his mechanical body, thus breaking his control over the timeline.

>>713965103
the fact that you cant even come up with ONE character is very telling about how your game will end up.

I don't know how else to tell you this, but stop engaging with avatarfags.
>>713964663 if you're still replying at this point, then you're part of the problem.

>>713965152
then congrats, you contributed a valid opportunity for this game to improve instead of kvetching and crying that I wouldn't do it for them.

>>713964886
>Literally no counter argument
>Just "Play the game" "You idiot" and "Read what I said again"
I'll not wait for you to refute anything I said because you never will. You never do, and this is why I'm telling you to stop shitting up threads with these ridiculous non-arguments you pull that lower the quality of every thread you're in.
Directly state two instances of a SOUL being destroyed in the same way Yours does? "play the game"
Explicitly talk about the relationship fanworks have with fans, about needing to accept that what they do, regardless of not lining up with your interpretation of lore or characters, is nonetheless an alternative view to appreciate? "yeah but it's objectively wrong because blah blah blah"
You're the worst type of autist to argue with anon. Even Berdly would make a stronger case than you, and would have the empathy to understand the difference in perspectives other people have. Please just fucking stay in the Deltarune threads, you were much more pleasent there.

>>713906547 (OP)
>>713906547 (OP)
>>713906547 (OP)
>>713906547 (OP)
Is there a cowboy boss in Undertale/Deltarune?
I see some sprites floating around but no gameplay of it.

I never got the anger over things like Flowey being in yellow or how these fan characters are written. It's a fan game anons, I don't imagine the dev ever intended to make a strictly canon experience. The game is good and it fits into it's own category separate of the actual source material.
Time to let it go and perhaps try making your own contribution be it original or fanon.

>>713965323
>I'll not wait for you to refute anything I said because you never will.
i did last thread, which you made abudnantly clear you where here for.
anyway my server is up and running, so back to yes deving, play the game. I'm not going to spend hours and hours combing through dialogue trees taking screen shots of all the things an autist on the internet is wrong about.

>>713965360
Entirely stemming from pre-chapter 3 and 4 speculation. Most sprites you'll see will be fan made outside of some cowboy inspired sprites used for a short segment in chapter 3.

>>713965360
There's a cowboy minigame in Deltarune and there's a boss that features said minigame.

>>713965481
Hey, are you the same guy who said that UTY was impossible simply because Sans exists?
I'm gonna assume so, because that was also retarded, and falls perfectly in line with everything else you've said.

>>713965539
So my quirky cowboy boss character for my indie rpg is still original...for now...

>>713965586
I guarantee you someone has done it before. Don't bother worrying what's been done before, just worry about whether or not you're doing it well.

>>713965586
You see many other games deciding to have western themes these days? Godspeed anon I have faith in you and regardless of originality I wouldn't turn my nose up to the idea.

>>713965481
>I'm not going to spend hours and hours
You literally do not have to do that. If you know it is stated in game, you can say it. If you are wrong, then it can easily be looked up for this one specific instance. You do nothing but argue in bad faith to justify your lack in confidence in what you claim. You make up excuses for why you won't defend your points because you're too afraid to actually construct them in fear of being wrong in some minor way, like these conversations are a game to be won.
>"B-but that's assuming"
It is, but unless you actually make a sincere attempt to refute it, you're not going to get any better judgement of your character when all you do is give non-answers to people giving legitimate talking points for why they don't agree with you. I sincerely hope you learn to properly argue with intent one day. Good luck with your game.

>>713952153
The difference is that ceroba had nothing but good intentions while toriel was horny and bored.
Ceroba might not win as the most responsible mom but if she actually had someone to keep the scissors away she'd be dedicated enough to make up for it.

>>713967308
Ceroba's actions are chalked up to her for some reason putting a lot of faith in her own child's pleading to be injected. It's absolutely retarded, and rightfully shat on, but looking past that it is purely innocent ignorance.

>>713962493
Them just devolving into a savage bitchfight would be peak

Clover design is the best thing to come from this fangame

Someone should keep an eye on this thread.
Threads like these usually hit page 10 in later hours.

>>713967825
He is cute I agree

Someone posted a picture of Taboritsky edited to look a bit like Undyne in one of the threads.
I think that TNO's Karbyshev and Yazov would be the closest characters to pacifist route Clover and justice route Clover, respectively.

Lets assume different scenarios where each UTY main character (plus kanako and chujin) becomes the knight/has to be the knight's replacement because they didnt show up individually, with some ground rules being laid out to them such as "cant fight the fun gang until chapter 3" and "cant simply create a bajillion dark fountains and win easily" or "cant give out info like the bunker's codes", but they can improvise and do whatever stuff they want outside of those simple rules, how well would they perform while being in the knight's role? Would they fumble hard? Be a cocky showoff all the time? Or be an actual threat who may or may not manage to win?

>>713970096
yeah he is

>>713970894
Clover would probably be the biggest threat and would probably deal extra damage to monsters and darkners, so the fun gang would have to rely on Kris.
Dalv's lightning would be dangerous, but he's still Dalv, so he would fumble hard.
Martlet would be very difficult, especially if she was more like her Zenith form.
Starlo would be a cocky showoff, even though his weapons are still lethal.
Ceroba would be a massive threat in her pacifist route form because of her shield, tard strength, and so on, but a joke in her justice route form.
Axis has experience in murdering children.
Kanako and Chujin are more wildcards.

>>713970567
>Taboritsky Undyne
'His majesty Asriel is alive' but Undyne would actually be kind of right.

>Flowey's entire goal is to make sure Clover goes to asgore and kill him then pull a switcharoo by stealing the human souls
>Somehow didn't even bother to give him the save scumming ability during the flawed pacifist route
This is one of the few things in Yellow that definitely bothers me the most, even more than Ceroba being retarded
If the devs wanna make the fight "unwinnable", I feel they should've just pull a knight situation where Clover just need to hit a certain percentage of HP for Flowey to realize this fight is impossible to win and just settle for letting Clover die and wait for another human to piggyback to

>>713971759
But then you run against a certain problem: what happens if clover just fucking no-hits the asgore fight? Or is simply not struggling that much? Surely flowey wouldnt quit on clover's ass if he's doing well against him

>>713971376
>Axis has experience in murdering children.
hehe
>axis "GREETINGS CHILDREN"
>susie "... who the hell are you?"
>A "I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED AS YOUR: KILLER"
>susie laughs
>S "do you really think you can kill us? we're HEROS!"
>A "AFFIRMATIVE. BUT I HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU DO NOT"
>S "and whats that?"
>A "EXPERIENCE"
>S "wha-"
>before susie can finish the word a beam of energy flies by her face
>followed by a glove
>A "AND DETACHABLE HANDS"
>S "WE'VE SEEN THAT TRICK ALREADY DUMBASS!"

>>713964084
During the one year anniversary stream, the UTY devs confirmed that Martlet would have stayed in her zenith form without melting if Clover didn't reduce her hp to zero

>>713972051
Give Asgore undodgable attacks, ones thats could only be dodged if your sould could shoot or use a dash that gives you i frames

>>713972616
thats kinda dumb, but i guess it's going off what seemingly happened to undyne the undying

>>713972051
you can just make it so Clover's attack are just piss poor against Asgore
you can even make it where at certain point (once you're in the HP threshold), Clover just gets tired and couldn't keep up on Asgore's strength
so a no hit would still be taken account on this scenario

Are they really autosaging this thread.

Shame, it was a decent thread for a while.
Same time next week everyone?

>>713973721
CH3+4s release has been... difficult for a few jannies.

>>713973721
>>713973761
I get that DR threads on /v/ commits every sin of being a /vg/ thread but at least check the thread they are purging
most of the time they delete threads that has genuine discussion

>>713974094
Well, it is getting a bit late/early, and this thread has been getting less active, so it's not completely out of left field.
Still, I liked this thread.

>>713973761
See you then anon, always enjoy discussion of fan works.
>>713974094
>but at least check the thread they are purging
You're asking too much, anything vaguely related to UT/DT is gonna get whacked.

THE THREAD BEING AUTOSAGED WONT STOP ME FROM MAKING YOU THINK ABOUT KANAKO FATTENING CLOVER

>>713974205
What a shame.
It was a good thread.
What a rotten way to be archived.

There needs to be more Ceroba hmofa content, why must Kanako get all the humans?

>>713974413
Needs to be more Ceroba in general I say. Love that disappointment of a mother.