Thread 714522241

Why didn't Nintendo buy Rare?

>>714522241 (OP)
Because they RAREly buy a studio
I hope I'm right otherwise the joke wont work...

>>714522241 (OP)
Because their games sold poorly after Banjo-Kazooie. Perfect Dark didn't do nearly as good as GoldenEye, and Banjo-Tooie didn't do nearly as good as Banjo-Kazooie. Conker flopped hard.

Too British.

Rare was dead by the time it made Starfox Adventures. Microsoft just killed it once and for all with Perfect Dark Zero.

Reminder that Iwata killed the power Nintendo of America had in the 90s

From 1990-2000. Nintendo of America had production and management autonomy from Japan. NOA basically culminated its own production team, along a few co-designers, and started funding and producing games with developers.

>DMA Design: Uni Racers, Body Harvest (Nintendo dropped it in 1997, Midway took it)
>Angel Studios: Ken Griffey Baseball, Buggie Boogie (canceled)
>Bits Studios: Warlocked, Riqa (canceled)
>Rare: Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark
>Software Creations: Ken Griffey Baseball, Tin Star
>Silicon Knights: Eternal Darkness (N64 version)
>Left Field Productions: Kobey Bryant in NBA Courtside, Excitebike 64
>Looking Glass Studio: Mini Racers (canceled)
>Mass Media: Star Craft 64
>H20: Tetrisphere
>Saffire Corp: Nester's Funky Bowling, James Bond 007
>Midway: Cruisn Series

Nintendo of America also procured the Ken Griffey and MLBPA license, NHL License, Kobe Bryant and NBA license, PGA license, Disney license, James Bond license, StarCraft license. Star Wars Episode I license. They were producing their own first-party games separate from Nintendo of Japan.

That all changed when Iwata transitioned from Global Marketing Chief to President. NOA Production was killed, and Nintendo of Japan's SPD Department took over all Western development (Star Fox Adventures, Geist, Eternal Darkness GC).

Henry Sterchi, Brian Ullrich, Ken Lobb, Ed Ridgeway, Jeff Hutt, Faran Thomason, and the whole crew left NOA to Microsoft and other developers. Since then, we've seen the Western model we have today. Western developers reporting directly to Japanese management, and pretty much making B/C sequels to Nintendo IPs.

>>714522485
That's what's interesting, the Brits made the best Nintendo games

>>714522241 (OP)
pee-a-moto has a huge problem with developers being more creative or even better than him. look at how many games he's shut down

>>714522642
that explains why nintendo games are shit now

Why hasn’t conker come on nso yet

>>714522934
When Yamauchi left, the quality control of Nintendo releases saw a noticeable decline in quality. DK, Yoshi, Star Fox, Paper Mario, Smash, Wario Land etc.. all became shit after 2005.

Because both the N64 and Gamecube sold like shit and GTAIII came out the year before, they saw the writing on the wall and knew the days have child friendly animal mascots was on it's way it

Miyamoto resented them for DKC

>>714523109
i doubt noj wants to associated with western adult games plus microsoft owns the ip

>>714523109
because nintendo are fags
it got remastered for the rare replay collection for the xbone

>>714522241 (OP)
They would only be buying a few of their IPs, because there was no talent left by the time they finished Star Fox Adventures.

>>714522241 (OP)
>>714522754
>>714523225

>>714523305
It never released in Japan.

>>714522241 (OP)
Better question is why do people more angry at Nintendo for not buying Rare then at Microsoft for killing them?

>>714522642
But that also happened because the later Yamauchi years were Nintendo's darkest period, and Iwata was the one hand-picked to try to get them out of the gully.

>>714523718
*get more angry

>>714522241 (OP)
We already had this thread

>>714523718
What are you talking about, everyone does. The popular narrative has always been Microsoft came in and fucked everything up, regardless of whether or not it's even true.

>>714523965
It's not a popular narrative, it's the truth. Several ex-Rare employees have said that MS introduced a strict corporate culture, which gave Rare a lot less freedom compared to what they had with Nintendo.

After around five years with MS, a lot of Rare staff quit.

>>714523709
>source
some guy said this
>my source
miyamoto has literally sabotaged people making games that are too creative

>>714523718
I'm angry at both personally

I think Nintendo were the only ones who could be trusted to own Rare. Microsoft letting them piss around making Kinect slop and live service bullshit was the worst thing they possibly could've done.

Rare not making Banjo, Perfect Dark, Conker etc anymore is like if Sega decided one day they were not gonna make Sonic anymore. It just should not be allowed.

Rare needed hardline leadership, they literally needed Nintendo to own them and tell them "No, you can't just make whatever random slop you want. You are required to put out at least one Banjo game and one DK game per generation and to keep supporting your other IPs too"

A Nintendo-owned Rare would have NEVER made garbage like Sea of Thieves, it just would not have been allowed to happen.

And Nintendo owning Rare means they would have got the IPs too. So even if Rare still went to shit, they could put Retro Studios on a Perfect Dark game, or develop Banjo in-house in Japan.

>>714522241 (OP)
Most likely not true, but my headcanon is that they knew they had no more good games left in 'em.
They were bone dry of good ideas by the xbox 360 era.

>>714522241 (OP)
Rare wanted Nintendo to put a ring on it, but Nintendo had commitment issues, so Rare eloped with that bad boy Microsoft. You have to understand, Rare was young and naive, and Microsoft was so charming...

Isn't it crazy that Rare makes more money today with just an online pirate sandbox game than it did back in the day with all those games for Nintendo consoles?
It's pretty crazy to think about it.

>>714523965
I consistently see more people crying about Nintendo opting out of buying them, instead of getting mad at Microsoft they would rather create fanfiction about Nintendo hating Rare. Even though Nintendo did try to bid for Rare and let them create GBA/DS games after the buyout.

>>714524203
>Rare not making Banjo, Perfect Dark, Conker etc anymore is like if Sega decided one day they were not gonna make Sonic anymore. It just should not be allowed.
FORCING GAME DEV TO MAKE GAME I DON'T WANT BAD
FORCING GAME DEV TO MAKE GAME I WANT GOOD

>>714524105
Kinect Sports was literally Rare's idea

>>714524105
Find one interview that says that. You can't. What you'll instead find is a bunch of interviews stating the exact opposite. The Stampers had a pretty brutal corporate culture of secrecy and intra-company competition. People only collaborated within their own teams, to the point where every barn was keycard locked to only that team so you couldn't even see what other people were doing. Obviously this produced great games and it seemed more like healthy rivalry than toxic empire-building, but it's still harsh on the face of it. When Microsoft took over, the first thing that everyone says is that they were initially happy with how much more relaxed things were, even little things like being able to listen to music while they worked and stuff.

Rare hated doing the Mickey Mouse games.

>>714522241 (OP)
Because DK64 was straight dogshit and the other projects they had in the pipe were the same (look at Grabbed by the Ghoulies for fucks sake)

Rare died BEFORE MS bought them, not because of it. Nintendo let them go because they were no longer worth it.

>>714524597
Dk64 was one of the best selling games on the system, retard.

>>714524319
When you own valuable IPs, yes, you should be forced to actually use them.

The higher-ups at Nintendo would never let their devs say "actually, we don't want to make Mario or Zelda games anymore. we want to make random new IPs that are completely different to what we were known for before!"

Sonic Team would never be allowed to completely stop making Sonic games.

Capcom would never be allowed to completely stop making Resident Evil games.

Square Enix would never be allowed to completely stop making Final Fantasy games.

Atlus would never be allowed to completely stop making Persona games.

So why was Rare allowed to completely stop making Banjo games?

Banjo could have been a colossally HUGE series if it had been properly supported. It could have been the UK's answer to Mario. 3D and 2D games on every generation, spin-offs, cartoons, a movie, mass merchandising sold to kids all across the globe, and so on.

But that was never allowed to happen because MS bought them and allowed them to just leave Banjo to rot forever.

>>714524449
You're comparing apples to oranges. Nintendo provided Rare with ample time and money as long as they delivered quality. MS put strict time and budget limits. That was a huge difference.

>>714524775
>So why was Rare allowed to completely stop making Banjo games?
Choice
Artistic free will
Some devs CHOOSE to continue franchises
Some devs CHOOSE to decide a franchise is over and some things are better concluded rather than milked dry into a passionless husk

>>714524597
>Rare died BEFORE MS bought them, not because of it. Nintendo let them go because they were no longer worth it.
Nintendo could have steered Rare in a better direction.

A Nintendo-owned Rare objectively would've attracted higher quality developers than an MS-owned Rare did.

They would also attract devs who would be more interested in making Nintendo-ish games (I.E., what Rare were actually known for), rather than what happened under MS where they attracted devs that want to make live service slop like Sea of Thieves.

And even if they still completely failed, that's no problem, because Nintendo would own the IPs and could put a master-team to work on making new Banjo, Perfect Dark and Conker games even with 0 input from Rare.

>>714524930
>Choice
>Artistic free will
No, you do not get choice and artistic free will when you own IPs on the calibre of Banjo.

The 3D Mario devs would not be allowed to turn around one day and say "we want to make a live service game about heckin pirates with microtransactions!!!" Whoever came to their boss with that suggestion would be laughed out of the room.

>>714524775
>Capcom would never be allowed to completely stop making Resident Evil games.
They stopped making Mega Man which you obviously chose to neglect to mention, retarded zoomer.

>>714524930
>Some devs CHOOSE to decide a franchise is over and some things are better concluded rather than milked dry into a passionless husk
It's funny how people only say this about Rare's IPs but not about Nintendo's in-house IPs.

Imagine if Nintendo decided after the NES "Nope, Mario is done, we're stopping at 3 games and not making ANY more, because we don't want to milk the series too much!"

There is absolutely no reason why Banjo couldn't be like Mario, Kirby, Sonic and other highly-successful platforming series that get games every couple years. There is no reason why there couldn't have been Banjo games on every one of the GameCube, Wii, Wii U, DS, 3DS and Switch. Like Mario, they could have come up with new gimmicks for each game to keep it fresh.

>>714524775
What Nintendo does is that they ask developers to do gameplay that's never been done before, and then if the team can't come up with good characters, they stick Mario onto it. That's nearly what happened with Splatoon.

>>714525125
>They stopped making Mega Man which you obviously chose to neglect to mention, retarded zoomer.
Fair enough, good point, but RE and Monster Hunter are still traditional Capcom IPs.

Rare on the other hand completely abandoned ALL of their classic IPs. Even their recently-cancelled game Everwild was going to be yet another bullshit live service game. It's abundantly obvious that everybody still working at Rare hates their back-catalogue and has no interest in doing anything with any of those franchise, and their bosses at Microsoft feel the exact same way. Disgusting.

>>714525125
Mega Man died because of diminishing returns and the industry moving towards fewer, bigger games. It stopped making sense financially to make a yearly or multiple yearly small Mega Man titles instead of just putting all of their resources to RE/MH and maybe SF.

Still doing better than Bomberman
Laugh at Bombermanfags
>has 100+ games
>one of the most copied games of all time
>revolutionized multi-player in gaming
>had the first HD game ever
>launched the successful B-Daman toyline
>good Nintendo history and had a crossover with Wario and Mario Party 2 unused content
>has other crossovers with Pac-Man, Transformers, Yatterman and Lilo & Stich
>still gets BTFO in SSB and became a complete laughtingstock by everyone
>series gets overshadowed by waifufags and coomers beacuse of Bombergirl despite them never playing the game
>R got outsold by the new Momotetsu, a fellow Hudson IP that was only released in Japan.
>no console game for 5 years
>No games on NSO
>40th anniversary came and went with no fanfare or events
What a fucking loser. Imagine being a Bombercuck in 2024

>>714525540
>its okay when Capcom does it!
Hang yourself

>>714525753
It's not the same thing, Capcom didn't just stop making Mega Man because they felt like it but because the franchise really isn't that valuable compared to the other stuff they make.

>>714522241 (OP)
Nintendo prefers to work with studios, buy them outright is a rather rare occurrence, and Nintendo never gave a fuck about Rare's IPs and by the time Rare approached them to buy them Rare was already long past their glory years.

>>714522241 (OP)
Nintendo had a decent chunk of rare, but sold it off long before the microsoft buyout because rare was already circling the drain at that point. Dk64 was probably a major factor given how egregious the memory leak issue was. Microsoft didn’t kill rare, they just got the last hit in on a mortally wounded company.

>>714523718
Nintendo could’ve saved them

I dont know what everyone is going on about but I heard its because the more talented of Rare's staff had already left.

>>714525264
>Like Mario, they could have come up with new gimmicks for each game to keep it fresh.
They tried
Nothing worked

>>714525901
Still bigger than Banjo, retarded nigger.

>>714522241 (OP)
By the time the buy-out happened, Rare's games weren't doing as well as they used to, a lot of the talent was gone, and they were struggling with developing 5th gen consoles.

>>714525264
>>714525094
When important, talented people are forced to make games they don't want to make, they leave

>>714525949
>>714526137
Yeah, having to include a $30 peripheral in every single copy of one of your tentpole releases because of your shoddy code probably didn't instill confidence

>>714526005
>>Like Mario, they could have come up with new gimmicks for each game to keep it fresh.
>They tried
>Nothing worked
How exactly did they try? They made two Banjo games, both of which were great, and then gave up. Nuts & Bolts wasn't even an attempt at making an actual 3D platformer, so I don't count it.

Rare never even started work on an actual Banjo Threeie for either GameCube or Xbox, so how can you say they tried?

>>714526325
If they'd prefer to make live service slop than actual creative games then they aren't very talented are they?

>>714526528
Have you looked at Nuts & Bolts' development history?

So why do people still pretend that rare made nothing of value after the microsoft buyout?

>>714526660
A bunch of times. I know it was originally intended as a remake of Kazooie, but even that version was some retarded "subversion" of the original where they were gonna troll people with changing random things about the game and not advertising that fact.

Rare never even attempted to sit down and make a true 3rd Banjo game that built off what Kazooie and Tooie did.

>>714526908
Because they didn't own a 360 or didn't like Garden Simulators
People have this weird misunderstanding that the timeline goes from
>Nintendo's with Rare
>Rare gets bought out
>Kinect Sports
And just forget between the last two parts

>>714526968
>Rare never even attempted to sit down and make a true 3rd Banjo game that built off what Kazooie and Tooie did.
They tried a gimmick where Gruntilda would actively interfere and compete

>>714526908
Because they basically didn't.

Their first few years under MS were half-decent, but all of those games were GameCube games that were ported to Xbox post-buyout. Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo and Grabbed by the Ghoulies were all GameCube games. You can even find launch-era GC boxes that advertise Kameo as an upcoming game on the box.

Even Viva Pinata was hatched in its earliest stages while Rare were still with Nintendo.

Everything Rare made post-2006ish was irredeemable garbage, without exception. And those were the projects made entirely during the MS era of Rare.

>>714527152
>Their first few years under MS were half-decent, but all of those games were GameCube games that were ported to Xbox post-buyout. Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo and Grabbed by the Ghoulies were all GameCube games. You can even find launch-era GC boxes that advertise Kameo as an upcoming game on the box.
Kameo and Ghoulies changed drastically

>>714527408
You still have games there that were partially-Nintendo games.

I'd argue also that part of the reason they had a middling reception was being put through development hell by force, due to being moved from GC to Xbox to Xbox 360. Or, in Kameo's case, from N64 to GC to Xbox to Xbox 360.

>>714522241 (OP)
because Rare was never good

>>714522642
To be Fair, Fire Emblem started being relevant in Iwata era, so i would give it to him

>>714527408
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAR9zP20nQ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdptcdxqPV4
It's the same game you idiot.

>>714522241 (OP)
What good would it do? Current rare are not what they used to be since most of the talented members left and no one cares about dead IPs like Banjo except for grown ass autists that refuses to move on from the n64 days

>>714525672
the most relevant thing bomberman's done in the last 10 years was popularize dnb/jungle in the zoomer circles with the bomberman hero soundtrack making waves on tiktok

>Gregg Mayles constantly tweeting about banjo saying kids today dont know who he is so we have to reinvent the IP again

Hes a retard and wouldnt mesh with the nintendo we have today especially after Bananza proved you can be nostalgic while also being a new game.

>>714528080
If Nintendo had bought Rare he would have fucked off years ago, because they wouldn't give him free reign to pursue whatever his latest autistic fixation is.

A Nintendo-owned Rare in 2025 would likely be an incredibly focused studio, completely different in staff to pre-2002 Rare and reoriented towards games that suit the platform.

Look at how Nintendo managed Retro Studios when they bought them for instance. Originally they were making lots of random shit like a football game for GameCube. Then Nintendo stepped in and said "No, stop that shit, you're doing Metroid now", and it paid off. They'd have done the same with Rare if they'd bought them in 2002.

>>714522402
Basically that and games were getting more and more expensive to produce and Rareware wanted more money. Nintendo just said no and Microsoft said it would bear the costs. It wasn't as good an investment as we see today.

>>714528332
Retro stopped doing that football game because EA and SEGA were making that redundant by having their Football games on GameCube

>>714527975
Bombergirl?

>>714528080
Donkey Kong has been a culturall icon for over 40 years, Hollywood people recognize the arcade more than the DKC games, hence why you see it parodied all the time.

>>714528484
It's well known that the environment at Retro before Nintendo gave them Metroid was a total mess.

>Despite not having access to GameCube development kits,[4] the studio immediately began work on four projects for the GameCube: an action adventure game named MetaForce,[5] a vehicular combat game with the working title Car Combat (also known as Thunder Rally), an American football simulator named NFL Retro Football, and role-playing game Raven Blade. By the time development began, the studio had already grown in size to 120 employees.[4] The company continued to grow during production, eventually peaking at over 200 employees.[6]

>The working environment was chaotic, with development getting behind schedule, and Nintendo executives complaining on how the games turned out.[7] In 2000, producer Shigeru Miyamoto visited the studio. He was disappointed by the games except for their demonstration of the MetaForce game engine, which led Miyamoto to suggest that Retro could use the engine to develop a new game in the Metroid series.[6] Shortly before the 2000 Nintendo Space World conference, Nintendo granted Retro the license to create Metroid Prime, and Retro shifted all development resources from MetaForce to the new game.

>>714528540
>Donkey Kong has been a culturall icon for over 40 years
Banjo could have been a cultural icon too if the series had been consistently supported, rather than being immediately abandoned after Tooie.

Imagine a world where Nintendo buys Rare, forces them to make Banjo Threeie for GameCube (and Banjo 4 for Wii, and so on), licenses the franchise out for cartoon TV series and movies, and puts Banjo in Smash as early as Melee.

They saw the future.
Star Fox Adventures and Grabbed by the ghoulies didn't impress Nintendo

>>714528739
Banjo was already successful enough for nintendo to justify adding him in mario artist studio alongside pikahu and link. Rare was toe to toe with Nintendo and people forget this.

>>714528739
Or proceeding diminishing returns renders this all void
You're being awfully optimistic thinking forcing Rare to make games they don't want to make would result in a project that'd be actually good.
Wanna know what game you got from Rare that they were forced onto and they didn't want?
You got Mickey's Speedway USA

>>714528739
>Banjo could have been a cultural icon too if the series had been consistently supported, rather than being immediately abandoned after Tooie.
Doubt, it would't have been A-list.

>>714528080
>>714528332
That's funny because I always felt like Gregg Mayles kinda suffered the same thing Miyamoto has in that they're really hellbent on returning to their old shit via wacky innovation. Like when you think about it, the reason we haven't gotten a new Banjo since Nuts & Bolts is kinda the same reason we don't get Star Fox or F-Zero games very often.

Like compare pic related and then this interview with Takaya Imamura: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2XNaWM4tGw&t=561s

>F-Zero and Star Fox, both series are close to Shigeru Miyamoto's heart, and I get the feeling that um, I'm pretty sure that if a new iteration of one of those games got greenlit, he would really want to be apart of the development. But he's a really busy person, so I don't think...you know, I think, um, realizing that's gonna be difficult.

>From my personal perspective, um, I also think Nintendo as a whole, Miyamoto's approach to game design, is that they don't want to rehash the same old thing, so they always need something unique in every new iteration. Perhaps one of the reasons to why there hasn't been a sequel for so long while I was at Nintendo was I wasn't able to find something that was exciting or new enough for Miyamoto to give it the greenlight, so he would be involved. As an example of how important the franchises are to Miyamoto-san and how he values new ideas, um, Star Fox Zero for example, started off life as "hey, let's do a shooter game using booth screens". This was the idea that came from Miyamoto-san, and if we can use that, then okay, we can put that into a new Star Fox, and that's where Zero comes from. If you want anymore proof, then that was the first game Miyamoto worked on as a director for about probably 20 years.

>>714528843
>Banjo was already successful enough for nintendo to justify adding him in mario artist studio alongside pikahu and link. Rare was toe to toe with Nintendo and people forget this.
That game was primarily made by Brits Anon

>>714522241 (OP)
Because they were never good.
/thread

>>714522642
Most of what you listed is shovelware tier though rare is the stand out.

>>714529081
t. zoomer who never played Tin Star.

>>714529056
A game by brits, exclusively released in japan for hardware we never got. Banjo was a 1st party character before the buyout as well. Its well known they traded all of Rare's IPs just to keep the DKC content.

>>714528952
>>714528963
Banjo has a LOT more appeal and potential than some generic series like Kirby, at the very least. And Kirby still somehow sells extremely well despite the fact you never meet anyone who calls themself a "diehard Kirby fan".

>>714529137
Just because you like a game in your childhood doesn't meant it wasn't shovelware.

>>714529007
Yeah and just like Gregg, Miyamoto thinks fans want a monkeys paw kind of sequel for Star Fox where its literally just the SNES game again but worse while Panzer Dragoon and Sin & Punishment were actually innovating in the genre. Theyre both fucking idiots.

>>714522642
Meds

>>714529260
>despite the fact you never meet anyone who calls themself a "diehard Kirby fan".
You'd be surprised

>>714529268
>no argument
You are a zoomer.

>>714529260
The first Kirby's Dream Land sold over 5 million, no Banjo game have surpassed that.

>>714529421
Well of course it did, it was on a much better selling console compared to the N64.

Now imagine what kind of sales Banjo-Kazooie 4 on the Wii, being released at peak Wii hype circa 2008, could've achieved.

>>714529421
Pikmin sells like shit and its touted as a main IP because its miyamoto's baby and i love pikmin but its surreal to me when other games like Arms dont get another chance but Pikmin does.

the writing was on the walls and the stamper brothers made it even easier to say goodbye.

>>714529561
Rare doesn't want to make Banjo
Nintendo wants to make Pikmin
That's the difference

>>714529494
>>714529561
Cope, Kirby had about 10 games by 1998, your shitty bear will never surpass it. Yamauchi saved HAL from Bankruptcy in 1993.

>>714528739
>Banjofags actually believe this
This IP is no different than any of the other scrimblo bimblo tier platformers released around that era

>>714522241 (OP)
https://youtu.be/XUgCXJJVWHY?t=265

Listen to the stampers talk and make your decision on why Nintendo dropped them.

Maybe if Ed Fries didnt immediately fucking leave xbox after the buyout he could have course corrected Rare.

>>714530061
Oh those poor naive bastards. Then again no one could see MS spiraling down so bad in less than 2 decades.

>>714530061
Ed Fries by the way being the guy who pushed for Psychonauts 1 and greenlit it and the moment he left microsoft, Doublefine had no funding or publisher. Ed would have definitely pushed Rare to make Banjo Threeie.

>>714530583
But Double Fine actually wanted to make Psychonauts

>>714522642
Iwata is such a loser. There's only 2-3 good games on the right side (obviously Splatoon is one of them) whilst left side is almost entirely pure kino.

>>714523148
daaaaaaaaaaamn son. Now that's some damning look for Iwata. Press S to spit?

>>714529276
>someone who is passionate about their hobby need to take meds
>not the trannies that killed gaming, they don't need to take the pink pill

>>714531051
They wouldnt have made it if one guy didnt see value in their vision. Rare had lots of pitches in the 2000's declined by Rare including the conker sequel because higher ups dont play games.

>Tease Banjo Threeie
>Jk heres a car game

>>714526908
Viva Pinata was the only good thing that came from post Nintendo Rare

>>714529007
Gregg has never played Mario Galaxy and its painfully obvious. Cause it wasnt just mario 64 or sunshine again like he thinks banjo has to be.

>>714524203
Nintendo can't even make good 3D Mario games anymore should show you that it's not a company that can handle even their own IPs, so yes while Nintendo having Rare would've been very preferable, it's hard to say if even that would've changed much, when their own zelda games follow more ubisoft than their n64 zeldas formulas

>>714524775
This anon gets it.

>>714525094
>The 3D Mario devs would not be allowed to turn around one day and say "we want to make a live service game about heckin pirates with microtransactions!!!"
ooof, this is a stab at ubisoft

>>714522241 (OP)
Nintendo doesn't have to buy shit to make money.
Nintendo sells licenses, just to allow developers to use Nintendo systems and components. Nintendo doesn't give a shit about developers that aren't in house as long as those 3rd parties keep buying their product licenses.
This is how Sony and Microsoft boomed in the 90's.
This is how much Nintendo likes games.

>>714530061
>>714530492
Can I get QRD on the vid?

>>714529007
Gregg Mayles was a fucking retard. Even if you ignore Mario, so many 3D platformers after Banjo did unique things and introduced new mechanics. The most Tooie did was split up the duo and even Nuts & Bolts wasn't an original concept. He should have just said he wanted to make his generic pirate game from the start.

>>714524105
>Several ex-Rare employees have said that MS introduced a strict corporate culture, which gave Rare a lot less freedom compared to what they had with Nintendo.
Why are you fucking lying? There are interviews stating the exact opposite. Kinect wasn't something they WANTED to work on.

>>714531554
>Saw the original teaser trailer with no cars and bought a 360 just because of that
>They reveal the cars and i still fucking pre-order the game and even used the Rare forums
>Play it launch day thinking i will get used to it and that it will get better

The revisionist history surrounding N&B pisses me off so bad and i hate that people like Jontron are seen as the reason why the game has a bad rep. No motherfucker I beat it and outside of building creations the game is bad. They couldnt even make the quiz engaging like kazooie OR tooie.

>>714522241 (OP)
It would have been nice. Banjo games fit in really well with the other main Nintendo franchises despite their particular style of humor.

>>714522241 (OP)
It was not worth 200 mi

>>714522642
I Wonder, there no male Yamauchi to susceed hiroshi?

>>714531554
>this thing's only paid DLC was literally just dropping missions into the existing test track
Peak soulless

>>714523718
Or at rare thats sold themselves to microsir

>>714522402
DK64 was one of the best selling games on N64 you retard

>>714522642
>IWATA RUINED EVERYTHING
>majority of the series on the left had their best entries while he was alive
What did Anon mean by this?

>>714522241 (OP)
because there was no way nintendo were outbidding microsoft

>>714522642
>Nintendo of America also procured the Ken Griffey and MLBPA license, NHL License, Kobe Bryant and NBA license, PGA license, Disney license, James Bond license, StarCraft license. Star Wars Episode I license.

I'm not big on the idea of Nintendo working on licensed games that are not originally made for games. Iwata made the right call on that,

>>714532732
He intentionally handpicked Iwata so Nintendo wouldn't just be a Yamauchi-brand company.
>"Nintendo is not a company that will do well simply because the president is a member of the Yamauchi family."

Big mistake in his part.

>>714532430
Sorry I'm going to believe what other anon says. Microsoft has been underdelivering for quite a long time now, so it's more likely that the err is on microsoft side, and not on rare's side

>>714523709
Nintendo had billions in the bank at that time. Maybe not 20 billion but they were not worried about funding their games.

>>714532896
>game so good not even I have it on my n64
it has that special place, along those two zelda games which I don't have, games that could've been, but never were, because I wasn't there to validate its existence

>>714533138
>Big mistake in his part.
Indeed it was

>>714528335
>>714522402
Tooie sold less than Kazooie, yes. However, it still sold 1.49m
Perfect Dark sold 2.52m

Donkey Kong 64 outsold Banjo Kazooie with 5.27m

Jet Force Gemini came out after BK, and sold a respectable 1.16m

>nintendo didn't ask for goldeneye 2 or perfect dark 2 from rare
>there are ample sequels for far more boring games
truly hellish timeline we live in, this is what true hell is

>>714533365
Working on Goldeneye was more or less the last straw for EON/MGM which is why Rare made PD to begin with. Even at E3 the devs of Tomorrow Never Dies couldnt avoid comparisons to Goldeneye and thats partially because EON didnt like what Rare did with the IP.

>>714528485
Horny otaku in dim pachinko dens don't count.

>>714532896
it was a very popular console bundle lime green 64 with DK and exp pak for 200$ or was it 150? sold for xmass 99 really popular I had one as did a few friends

>>714533505
>EON/MGM
Who/what?

>>714522241 (OP)
Ok shitposting aside, lets put ourselves in the shoes of late 90's nintendo, lets say they are aware of their latest and most controversial game, Conker and lets be honest, outside all the parody's and easter eggs, the game was a janky piece of crap, now for the tipical western mind they usually ignore most of it because its fun and they love the parody's.
The japanese however, they only see a janky platformer full of dated pop culture references and pee pee and poo poo humor and the higher ups in nintendo were mostly old farts in suits so that should give you an even better idea, they just didn't trust in Rare anymore after conker + they probably had an early tease of grabbed by the ghoulies wich just reaffirmed their suspicions, because oof that game was a real stinker.
Rare was done for after the N64 age, sadly time only gave them the reason.

>>714533647
How can you say

>old fart in suit bad
when the old fart in suit >>714522642 , see left-side , has all the good games? That argument is not working anon

>>714533642
EON and MGM (now Amazon) owned Bond and Rare even did interviews after saying Goldeneye as a game cause them to scrutinize the games that came after.

Honestly wouldnt be surprised if it took until Amazon owning the IP for us to get that Goldeneye port we just got.

>>714531520
Seavor himself killed it

>>714533856
Live and Reloaded sold badly even with it coming to japan unlike the N64 version. Seavor literally has tweeted in the past about his ideas for a new conker and it would have been a very dark game.

>>714522402
Wow because conkers would become like some cult classic later at least 2000-2010. Remember how people would say it was so rare because of the profanity

>>714532960
>majority of the series on the left had their best entries while he was alive
Name 10, and no, games like F-Zero GX, Double Dash or Pokemon Colosseum were announced before Yamauchi retired.

>>714533935
>Live and Reloaded sold badly even with it coming to japan unlike the N64 version
Didn't help that they censored the game on Xbox.

>>714533805
>Game was an success and beloved even today
>REEEE FUCKING VIDEO GAMES

What?

>>714534012
I really can't imagine the censorship affected sales at all.

>>714533801
>>old fart in suit bad
can you pls pin point the exact part where i said he was le bad?
I said that most nintendo higher ups AT THE TIME (very early gamecube life cycle) just predicted that buying out Rare was a bad idea and they were right.

>>714534157
Suit bro

>>714522642
Damn yamauchi basically paved the road for smash bros

>>714524203
Rare and Nintendo may have worked well together but they also had clashing interests. During the N64 era Rare was starting to publish more of their own games. Nintendo wasn't interested in making stuff like Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini or Conker's Bad Fur Day. That's probably why Nintendo didn't buy Rare, it was getting obvious to both parties that they were heading in separate directions.

>>714534309
>I said that most nintendo higher ups AT THE TIME (very early gamecube life cycle) just predicted that buying out Rare was a bad idea
Yes, you're describing the era when the guy on right, the "younger guy", became CEO of Nintendo, and that's basically the guy, a younger guy, who has managed to fuck up Nintendo ever since. The corpo shills were all, in-fact, "not so old"

>>714527975
dishonest post, that was all buck bumble

>>714534157
I cant find the article but EON tightened down on what bond could or couldnt do in terms of games. Also the IP itself switched hands to EA then later Activision. Nintendo is primarily why the XBLA remake got cancelled too which led to the Wii remake that has nothing to do with the N64 game.

So its more than EON but a lot of parties involved fucked with Bond games.

>>714534749
little bit of dishonesty goes long way, it's all about how you dress it

>>714524775
Rare did make Nuts & Bolts but that should have been a Banjo Spin-off, something to release after Banjo 3.

>>714522241 (OP)
Why did you make another thread?

>Rare revives DK and makes him a household name, also makes some of the biggest hits on the N64 some regarded as the best games of all time
>Nintendo for some reason in 2001 "fuck it sell em off we don't care"

>>714525382
>Rare hates their back-catalogue and has no interest in doing anything with any of those franchise,
Rare loves their history but they don't want to be shackled to the past
They're open to any other dev taking over as we saw with Killer Instinct and Battletoads

https://youtu.be/Ykza--oallI
You are now aware of the Rareware cow. A running gag by only the handheld team.

the director of banjo was working on some trash for years that recently got cancelled. everything that the latte devs from rare that people gaping mouth over have made for microsoft sucks.

the nintendo rare games were good because nintendo always stepped in and told them how to fix their games and gave them actual scope and vision, without nintendo they would still be ideas guys changing up project dream still

>>714535356
>Rare loves their history but they don't want to be shackled to the past
They clearly don't considering they spent the last 10+ years making literally nothing but live service slop (one of which was cancelled 2 days ago).

Let's be real, the Mickey Mouse games killed the reputation of Rareware, even Rarefags know they are shovelware and forced upon them when Nintendo obtained the Disney license in early 1999.

Fun fact: Rare was also going to develop a Mickey game for Gamecube (which they also missed at launch), but it was ultimately developed by Capcom as "Magical Mirror Starring Mickey Mouse". As a result, Nintendo has a small section before Capcom in the game's end credits, featuring producer credits for Hiroshi Yamauchi, Shigeru Miyamoto, and Kenji Miki.

>>714525293
This, however I'm wondering how much they will stick with that going forward. Having games that appeal to everyone is great but players do yearn for fresh worlds along with the old and familiar. Splatoon isn't new anymore and player want to feel that excitement of a new creative world along with a new gameplay experience.

That said, if they ever make a new WaveRace it will like be called Mario WaveRace.

>>714535171
>another thread?
Yes

Can a game dev company just rebrand and go back to work for their old bosses?

They are mad because the whites created better games than they did

>>714524203
>A Nintendo-owned Rare would have NEVER made garbage like Sea of Thieves, it just would not have been allowed to happen.
Sea of Thieves is great THOUGH

>>714535745
Live service slop literally cannot be good.

>>714535745
You don't play much of vidya do you? Let me guess, Sea of Thieves is not only the first game you've played, it's the ONLY game you've played?

>>714531641
The cat Mario game and Galaxy were good

>>714524930
>Choice
>Artistic free will
Fuck you. Devs need to be forced to support their damn IP. If they don't then they end up making DUMBASS STATEMENTS like pic related.

>>714536242
A dev didn't say that

>>714535805
But it IS pretty good, great even
>>714535952
Why even come talk to other people if you're just gonna imagine shit in your head and argue with it. Sad!

>>714536348
>Why even come talk to other people if you're just gonna imagine shit in your head and argue with it. Sad!
Sometimes the stuff is good tho, you gotta work with what you have

>>714532296
I know its not an amazing example cause the Future series is not great but Ratchet was able to get away with mostly iterative sequels and be beloved. Banjo is way more flexible than Spyro or Ratchet too personally.

>>714529561
Bro Pikmin is a GameCube staple. Arms is not gonna be remembered as a switch classic.

>>714536576
A GC staple where Ai No Uta, the theme song, sold better in japan than the actual game.

Pikmin gets tons of chances for giant sequels with fresh ideas and seemingly no other IPs. I can direct this to warioware too. I wouldnt call warioware fresh right now either they just made a Smooth Moves 2 with less content.

>>714535539
I liked it.

>Conker never got Japanese release
>still credits NCL and Yamauchi
So this shows that Nintendo of Japan never did dislike it.

>>714535661
Doesn't matter I copy pasted my post to get more (you)s from the dopamine since that's all this site is good for nowadays

>>714536968
The conker interview on rare replay has them say nintendo paid for an E3 booth which is already well known. You could buy beer and try the game. They also did a reveal in vegas showing the great mighty poo fight.

>>714537154
so its just shitty zoomer copers who lied.

>>714522241 (OP)
Because they were always late and overbudget

Nobody ever talks about Blast Corps, that was my favorite.

>>714536758
You gotta look at the big picture. The GameCube was a flop machine but it was necessary for the absurd sales that would come later for various ip's. Like Luigi's mansion 3 for instance and Pikmin 4. Those games ran because their previous entries walked.

>>714537171
Lmao

>oh my science! We lost Rare! now what should we show at our upcoming E3 2002?
>I have an idea boss, THIS will save our system!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2StOdJJreg
No wonder Gamecube got raped so hard by the competition.

>>714537863
This game was like another version of mario talent studio for the 64DD so it wouldnt have done well probably without the other mario artist tools and no online sharing.

>>714537863
God damn....

>>714522241 (OP)
Because they were stupid but it most likely cause of company politics, some beef with the Stamper bros or whatever.

I’d like to imagine that Nintendo acquiring Next Level Games (Punch-Out/Luigi Mansion/Mario Strikers team) was their way of showing regret for not buying Rare when they had the chance.

>>714525094
Their were many small groups in edp doing whatever that led to nothing or something small

>>714523718
Because Microsoft's gonna Microsoft, they could’ve screwed over any devoted studio from a previous company if possible.

Nintendo HAD a loyal ass 2nd party studio right in front of them, could’ve seized the perfect opportunity to acquire them around 1999-2001 preventing Rare’s downfall from ever happening and they blew it.

>>714538127
It was going to be linked to GBA.

>>714523148
>When Yamauchi left, the quality control of Nintendo releases saw a noticeable decline in quality. DK, Yoshi, Star Fox, Paper Mario, Smash, Wario Land etc.. all became shit after 2005.
What was the last game Hiroshi's name was on?

>>714538187
the new Mario Strikers sucked.

Does anyone even have fond memories of the Donkey Kong era in the 2000s where they just gave the license around to random Japanese developers? Rare still did the GBA remakes, which sold alot more than the newer games at the time.

>>714522241 (OP)

Because Rare turned into GARBAGE. Banjo Tooie sucked, Perfect Dark jumped the shark with aliens and shit, DK64 was a disappointment, Jet force Gemini has the creepiest an ugliest looking characters and Conker turned into ABSOLUTE CRINGE. Rare was flushed down the toilet by Nintendo because Nintendo knew Microsoft was a cesspool.

Still to this day retards meme that Nintendo wasn't going to buy them when it was specifically the microshit purchase that prevented them from being sold to Nintendo or activision. They then use the development hell games that happened because of the switch in companies as a poor example of "declining talent".
They made goldeneye with 5 people who didn't even know how to make a fucking videogame.

>>714522241 (OP)
Miyamoto is jealous of the British. Look at Argonaut for more proof

>>714538809
Its so funny how every dev except the internal ones liked having other kongs and kremlings pop up. I was so confused when i first saw Klaptraps in power tennis i was like "wow DKC in a mario game?".

>>714538931
You had the maker of Zelda begging them to make a Zelda clone lol. They not only did it but they managed to outdo Wind Wanker. Aonuma probably still has PTSD from the shouting.

If microshaft is this fucking incompetent in handling gaming alone, then imagine how bad it's for actual important stuff like taking screencaps of your entire system ever 3 seconds called Recall the feature from W11? There's no fucking way I'm ever going to give them that much power. And if that means I have to stop using PC altogether, or using linux to avoid Windows 11 or 12, then so be it. I want nothing to do with the palantir shit. No coping with "steam deck" is going to help with that, that's part of same system, valve CEO took same ozempic shit that xbox guy took. Nintendo might not be perfect, Nintendo with its Switch 2 is very much the only alternative/outsider to this shit that western surveilance companies are trying to push. PC ceases being personal once it's no longer yours (OS level espionage, personal ESG mapping), and if it's a gear that's not "personal" and I don't have control over, then of course I don't "need" to have something like that in my home. That's like having some automated turret in your room, which some globohomo has control over... "no no anon, it's not gonna target you.. you have our word for it"

>>714539203
>Look at Argonaut for more proof
The legendary "Ciggy Shiggy" took Argonaut under his chainsmoking wing and they learned to regret it because they killed sf2 97% of the way in and Nintendo never returned the "tech demo" favor by giving them proper documentation for n64.

Rare ultimately just couldn't put on the family friendly facade Nintendo was aiming for. I mean, they put hidden cocks in banjo tooie for heavens sake

Good riddance to Rare.They SUCK and Microsoft will eventually shut them down. Rest in piss, you wont be missed.

>>714539709
>guy behind chip came out and said he unironically got filtered by Japanese work ethic
lmao

>>714539212
That was good era, why did they stop doing it? even Battle League replaced Kritter with Boom Boom.

>>714539746
>the family friendly facade Nintendo was aiming for
Eternal Darkness was a GameCube launch title, and the Resident Evil exclusivity deals were negotiated around the exact same time Rare left.

>>714539746
>Rare ultimately just couldn't put on the family friendly facade Nintendo was aiming for.
>majority of their initial titles were family friendly arcade games and platformers
>majority of their Microsoft era games are family friendly
>in fact, their best ones were stuff like Viva Piñata
Why do you fags act like everything they made was Conker?

>>714538127
WHy the fuck was Nintendo all in for online features on the fucking 64dd but ignored it for the gamecube besides three games that use a modem add on

>>714539894
>the Resident Evil exclusivity deals were negotiated around the exact same time Rare left.
Believe or not, that deal was publically announced on 9/11, terrible fucking timing. US was in shambles while Japan made good shit

Am I the only one who still thinks about this game?

>>714540081
Miyamoto and Iwata were extremely against the idea of online gaming.

Nintendo of America wanted to push online very heavily on the Dolphin/GameCube, but were overruled.

>In 1999, an unnamed source at Nintendo of America said, "Networkability is at the top of the list for the new console."[4][5] referring to the N2000 prototype which would later become the GameCube. On August 28, 1999, Nintendo EAD general manager Shigeru Miyamoto said that Nintendo did not have any true motive to become significantly involved in the internet business. He stated Nintendo has a responsibility to families so that parents can always feel secure with children playing Nintendo products, and went on to say that he did not think network capabilities would be a core component of their next console.[5]

>On February 9, 2000, Miyamoto said that he was interested in online gaming, but Nintendo would only get involved with it if they developed a unique approach to the idea, not because others were doing it.[6] At E3 2001 Nintendo director and general manager Satoru Iwata stated Nintendo was confident enough with its offline strategy to not seriously explore the possibilities of online gaming. He said that Nintendo would build a network to support a worldwide audience if they could make it profitable, but he expressed doubts that online gaming would be a sustainable business model for the company, citing subscription costs as prohibitive at retaining a steady customer base.

>In a 2022 interview, Nintendo of America's former president Reggie Fils-Aimé said that Nintendo felt it excelled in local multiplayer experiences and wanted to spend time determining how to replicate those online. He added that cultural differences between Nintendo's regional branches slowed its adoption of online multiplayer, as the Japanese branch disagreed with the American and European ones over whether the infrastructure was worth investing in.[14]

>>714540081
Blame Iwata, he was convinced that the internet was a fad and that gamers weren't interested in online.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/iwata-customers-do-not-want-online-games/1100-6102100/

>>714539843
GBA/GC era nintendo is the fucking wild west i mean look at that image. The kremlings are using the DK64 designs. Same for inventing OC kremlings for Barrel Blast which now Bananza has OC kongs for the first time since Jungle Beat.

>>714540253
Iwata was genuinely an idiot and I'm convinced he would've ruined the Switch era if he hadn't have died when he died

>>714540247
They never invested in a 1st party online service until Wii U right? Cause DS and Wii were ran by Gamespy. Maybe Wii U was also 3rd party i forgot.

>>714539808
Why? Did he get sick of spending 10 minutes everyday to pour tea? Why do people meme "japanese work ethic" when all I see them do is the most lazy methodical work at the slowest pace imaginable?

>>714540253
Iwata not only almost killed nintendo during gamecube, he almost killed wii/ds by making them boomer interactive nurses. They only had wii/ds because Hiroshi came back to bail him out. Without Reggie they wouldn't have sold shit in america.

>>714522241 (OP)
Nintendo needed the money and Microsoft was offering big bucks, the Stamper brothers also wanted to cash out.

That's it. Nintendo would have liked to keep Rare as they were a big reason the N64 wasn't a complete flop.

>>714525949
>>714526403
The memory leak thing is a myth. Devs confirmed the memory expansion was used for the impressive lighting engine.

https://imgur.com/a/dk64-truth-ENjggIj

>>714540253
Lmao

>>714522241 (OP)
Nintendo doesn't usually buy studios. They prefer close partnerships such as with HAL (Kirby), IS (Fire Emblem), and GF (Pokemon).

Nintendo already has a catalog of past IPs and ideas to pull from. Buying the rights to Banjo or Conker would have been a waste considering how many platformer IPs they already have. It's also better to build new ideas (Pikmin and Splatoon as post Rare examples) then spend money buying old ideas from others. They made the right call negotiating the full rights to Rare's DK stuff instead of buying Rare.

>>714540247
Why is Nintendo like this?

>>714522241 (OP)
all gaijin studios are considered expendable by nintendo

>>714541376
Because of Shitoru Shitwata

>>714541370
The only reason for the atomically minuscule possibility of Nintendo buying the rights to Rare's catalog is if Microsoft for some unthinkable reasons decided to auction things off and Nintendo wanted to secure easy re-releases for Rare's Nintendo era titles
In other words, sitting on the IPs doing nothing like what's already happening now

Miyamoto personally disliked them.

>>714541416
>all gaijin studios are considered expendable by nintendo
If that's the case NST would've died after the Project Hammer debacle

>>714541737
Pic related

I wish they still at least had Killer Instinct, that would have been pretty solid in 6th gen graphics.

>>714522241 (OP)
i remember once hearing that Nintendo did indeed wanted to buy Rare, but not for the price that the Stamper brothers wanted
Microsoft was looking to acquire video game developers at the time and was willing to pay the price the Stamper brothers wanted

>>714541839
>they
Who?
Rare or Nintendo?
Rare had some interest at times but there were some legal problems
If Nintendo had the Killer Instinct they'd still have nobody to develop it

>>714522241 (OP)
Fuck Microsoft

Bless Nintendo for caring more about Rare than Microsoft ever did

>>714541842
The Stampers basically wanted the most money possible before dipping out and abandoning everything
They did not give a single fuck about games

>>714541839
Rare couldn't even be bothered to make the last one.

>>714541795
>>714541842
Nintendo denied them until they reverse engineered the SNES and they shat bricks and bought 24% of their company. They later bought 49% and sat on it for 4 years while giving them money for some things and shorting them for others. They rightfully were asking a generous amount they needed to do all the shit Nintendo wanted them to do but Nintendo didn't budge. They offered then to sell shares of the company for a generous amount to Nintendo so that they could actually own them and they still refused. They put a clause in their buyout contract that gave Nintendo first dibs to counter bid in case another buyer showed up.
Enter Activision/THQ, and Nintendo panicked and got in a bidding war with them. They got the final bid and were slated to own Rare until microsoft came in last moment and threw a ridiculous amount more which Nintendo shyed away from since they just wanted to cheaply micromanage a powerhouse at 49% but now couldn't and only had fucking gamecube.

>>714542367
The stampers wanted out of Rare. They still wanted to make games, they just realized in order to make your own games "the world doesn't have" you cannot go working for companies who do nothin but make the same game over and over. They would have fallen the same fate as Retro since that's the only reason they bought Retro really. They would have given them metroid, DK and starfox because as history shows us they only give a fuck about mario and Zelda. They even had Rare turn Starfox into fucking Zelda because that's how much they cared about it.

>>714542571
>because as history shows us they only give a fuck about mario and Zelda
Why is /v/ so fucking allergic to Animal Crossing, Pikmin, and Splatoon?

>>714540164
everyone in the know already knew the 9/11 date, it wasn't quite as "shocking coincidence" as this journo tries to paint it to be

>>714542669
>Why is /v/ so fucking allergic to Animal Crossing, Pikmin, and Splatoon?
Those will never be iconic to Hollywood Jews, none of those have been refereced on Simpsons or Family Guy so far.

>>714524203
HARD TRUTH NUKE HERE

>>714542669
Nintendo anon. Nintendo only gives a fuck about mario and Zelda. Oh and Pokemon since it was as successful as it was, they didn't give a rats ass about it before that. If only the creator sold his shares instead of living 4 years hikikomori with his dad to make it successful, then maybe Nintendo wouldn't be able to micromanage it now with less than half of 50 percent. Then again if a company like microsoft bought those shares it you'd be seeing all the articles of cancelled pokemon games.

>>714524242
Squaresoft and Capcom joined Sony too because they had those cool CDs unlike Nintendo which stuck to lame old Cartridges.

>>714543132
Look up Capcom 5, shitposter.

>>714543012
Just admit you're butthurt because Star Fox is dead. You don't have to lie.

>>714542669
>Why is /v/ so fucking allergic to Animal Crossing, Pikmin, and Splatoon?
I like the gameplay of splatoon, but ask yourself, who is the demographic of these games? Is it young male adult? Is it some kid? You ask me, millenial adults more than likely are not going to be playing "kids games" like these. A game that has stigma of being either girls game or kid's games, is not very good look, which is why Splatoon continues to sell significantly better in Asia than it does in the West. And if you ask

>why is /v/ allergic to these games
It's because they're not games made for adults. I can't even convince some normies to even try Palworld co-op with me because how "childish" the game looks, and that's a game where the pokemon have guns for heaven's sake, there's no way you're gonna convince them to play some pikmin bug alien game or squids with watershooters game.

>>714522241 (OP)
So much shitposting and misinformation going in this thread. Here's what really happened.

Nintendo is the villain here. Nintendo hated Rare. Nintendo did not want Rare to make Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Jet Force, etc. Nintendo did not want Rare making original games. Instead Nintendo wanted Rare to support them with their own IP's and other projects. Hence, https://www.ign.com/articles/1999/05/07/mickey-for-n64-dolphin
>"Nintendo announced today that it will be publishing approximately 13 Disney-licensed Mickey Mouse-based games across Nintendo 64, Color Game Boy and its next-generation hardware, codenamed Project Dolphin. The games, set to arrive during the holiday seasons of 1999, 2000 and 2001, will be developed by none other than Rare"
Yeah. Nintendo forced 13 fucking Mickey Mouse games on Rare. The people at Rare absolutely hated this. They were already falling behind with their other projects yet had to make 13 Mickey Mouse games because Daddytendo said so. Rare was running into finacial difficulties at the time and was trying to pressure Nintendo into buying the rest of share and fully absolving them into Nintendo. Nintendo did not want this, they wanted Rare to be an exclusive Nintendo developer and force projects onto them, but did not want to invest any money whatsoever. Then along comes Microsoft who says, "we will give you all the money you need and you can develop whatever you want, no more fucking 13 mickey mouse games". You'd have to be a fucking dipshit not to take that deal. Nintendo had no problem letting Rare go as they were falling behind on their Gamecube projects which left a very dry launch period for the system. Nintendo is the one who forced financial troubles onto Rare, Nintendo was the one who refused to invest in Rare, Nintendo is the villain in this story and it's really retarded how people still continue to blame Microsoft for Nintendo not giving a fuck.

>>714524203
>>714542969
>A Nintendo-owned Rare would have NEVER made garbage like Sea of Thieves
They would have. It's what Gregg Mayles wanted. They still would have made Ghoulies. They still would have made Nuts & Bolts.

>>714543378
>So much shitposting and misinformation going in this thread
>dumps the biggest load of horseshit yet

>>714531571
Grabbed by the ghoules turned out alright considering the circumstances.
Kameo was fun, but was too long.
I have no excuse for perfect dark 0. That was atrocious.
Jetpac remake was pretty good.
Nuts&bolts was mediocre. The vehicle building and physics were pretty cool at the time.
Both viva pinatas were great.
Never played the kinect games.
Sea of thieves was great until they catered more towards casuals and solos.

>>714534590
Agreed with the point about Rare potentially peaking at the Gamecube Era had they been given the chance to make more games for it after Starfox Adventures, and plus I’d rather Rare die a Hero with Nintendo than Microsoft. The same way AlphaDream did with its Mario & Luigi remakes

>>714543402
>They still would have made Ghoulies.
Yes because it was already shown off as a GameCube game at E3 2001.

Nuts & Bolts would never have happened. Nintendo would've never greenlit a game as shit as that.

>>714543486
>Nintendo would've never greenlit a game as shit as that.
Tears of the Kingdom utilizes the same mechanics. Face it, Rare didn't want to make the shit you wanted.

>>714541663
That's pretty much what they did for Rare's DK and Star Fox stuff in exchange for giving up their publisher rights to Rare's other stuff. The only stuff they don't fully own there is Jetpac within DK64 and Banjo/Conker within Diddy Kong Racing plus any instance of Rare's logo in them.

Outside of maybe keeping the rights Banjo Kazooie/Tooie, I don't think keeping the rights to the rest of Rare's catalog would've been worth it. Especially if they only owned the games themselves and not the properties.

>>714543378
If Microsoft is the "good guy" of the story, how come there's nothing to show for it? There gave Rare the money and freedom to make games... but what games? There were no games. You're not fooling anyone with this headcanon of yours anon

>>714535171
I’ve been browsing catalog all day and just now seeing this thread, earlier threads I’ve seen involved boring slop shit and even off topic stuff so think about some who might not have seen those previous threads on this topic you speak of.

>>714543567
>Face it, Rare didn't want to make the shit you wanted.
Agreed. I've never disputed that. That's why Nintendo needed to buy them. They would've tard-wrangled them and forced them to make good games. Gregg Mayles would have left in 2003 after the Big N handed down the orders that they were to start development on Banjo Threeie for GameCube immediately.

1000 IQ move from Nintendo:

>Buy Rare’s list of assets
>Buy playtonic for its talent
>Hire Greg Mayles and Louise O’Connor
>Contract Grant Kirkhope
>Make Banjo Threeie

Could Nintendo salvage anything from Rare?

>>714543218
I'm butthurt that not only did they have Rare destroy one of thier IP's fever dream it but when they got it back in their hands they had even less of a clue what to do with it. This on top of the other games that Rare was going to make got flushed down the toilet in order to divert resources to this development hell. It was literally worse than Other M what they did to this series and still continue to do. The fucking AM2R fags have no idea how good they have it.

>>714543378
>Nintendo forced 13 fucking Mickey Mouse games on Rare.
You retard. The 13 games got split among different developers.

Come on, you think Nintendo was Rare's parent company or something?
They were just business partners, Nintendo has no obligation to look after them that much.

>>714543570
They co-owned Banjo-Kazooie and Killer Instinct during their partnership while every other game was owned fully by Rare
People have made the arguments and cases for and against Banjo but I don't think Nintendo would've seen any immediate or even long-term value in KI since again, they don't make fighting games, it never came out in Japan, and the genre was on the decline at the moment.

>>714535745
>Sea of Slop

I still see Banjo dying with a trilogy even if the buyout hadn't happened. It was obvious they wanted to go in different directions with games.

>>714543846
This, Nintendo published an Alice in Wonderland, Beauty and the Beast and The Little Mermaid game on GBC, among others.

>>714528739
I like to imagine a world were Banjo was an extended part of the Mario universe through DK. Imagine not only getting more Banjo games but also getting Banjo Kazooie board maps in Mario Party or a Banjo rep in the Mario sports and kart games.

>>714526116
smaller than pokemon, autist.

>>714544062
>but also getting Banjo Kazooie board maps in Mario Party or a Banjo rep in the Mario sports and kart games.
I absolutely believe this would've happened if Nintendo bought Rare.

I could've seen Banjo and Kazooie being in Double Dash as a pair, and having a Banjo-themed course.

>>714543378
>rarefag making lies
Lmao

You guys wanna know something scary? Microsoft also considered purchasing Square Enix and Sega along with Nintendo apparently. Truly a dark timeline, we dodged a missile here

>>714544062
Anon if DKC, Warioware, Wario Land, etc are segregated as is what chance would the gaijin franchise get?

>>714529421
Gameboy games were a lot cheaper than console games at that time.

>>714544193
Microsoft buying Sega is legitimately one of my nightmare gaming scenarios. Thankfully they won't buy any more studios after the Activision buyout disaster and the recent layoffs.

>>714544183
>I could've seen Banjo and Kazooie being in Double Dash as a pair, and having a Banjo-themed course.
Oh yeah I sure love playing as Jimmy T in Mario Kart racing Kremlings on Captain Syrup's themed stage

You know, looking back the only N64 Rare game that feels "finished" is Perfect Dark.

>>714542038
What's so retarded is if they actually had rare making the new perfect Dark it would have already been fucking done by now.

>>714524557
The three Mickey games took time from their actual games. DP might have gotten released earlier or some of their later N64 games could have gotten tuned up a bit.

>>714535218
>Meanwhile Squaresoft and Capcom fucked off to the PlayStation because N64 cartridges were limited in space

Imagine the N64 Era without Rare, I honestly don’t think I can, well we can kinda take the total Gamecube unit sales as a possible example of that since it sold less than the N64.

>>714533164
Microsoft underdelivers specifically because they give the studios under them too much freedom. The same thing was recently true of Embracer Group, which resulted in Saints Row (2022) and "Timesplitters 4" (which was a Fortnite clone cancelled after Embracer realised being hands-off is a bad idea when you don’t have unlimited money).

Bomberman is still a bigger loser franchise than Banjo.

>>714544569
The Mickey games had a smaller dedicated team mostly of people who worked on Diddy Kong Racing and barely anything else.

>>714544193
Funny thats sega offered sell themselves to Microsoft and Microsoft declined, and i supose thats Phil dont know the story of nintendo execs laughing at the MS ones when they offered to buy nintendo

>>714544740
And The Lonely Goomba is a bigger loser than Bomberman and Banjo.

>>714533647
Watching this, I never knew Grabbed by the Ghoulies was gonna come to Gamecube before the buyout and man… Donkey Kong Racing…

https://youtu.be/Y8ALgXlf9l4

>>714522241 (OP)
OKAY.

>>714544893
It's a fuck tweet
https://nitter.net/search?f=tweets&q=bomberman+assist+from%3Alonelygoomba&since=&until=&near=

>>714539894
Nintendo doesn’t own either of those developers.

>>714544920
>I never knew Grabbed by the Ghoulies was gonna come to Gamecube before the buyout
Every early MS-era Rare game was a GameCube game initially. Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo were announced as GameCube games. Even Viva Pinata began its life as a concept at the beginning of the GC era

And all this happened because Microsoft thought they were buying Donkey Kong.

Why MS buy Rare only to do fuck all with them and force them to make those useless avatars?

>>714522642
Remember that Iwata rereleased the gamecube with a tv remote and wifi and it raped the other two 7th gen consoles in sales

>>714532598
How stupid is Nintendo for this?

>Selling Banjo only to pay to get him in Smash Ultimate and his games on NSO

Unless it was an offer from Microsoft

>>714545042
>force
Everything Rare did was on their own terms and choice

>>714545034
It was one exec who saw all the Donkey Kong stuff in the office post-buyout and got confused

>>714544569
>The Mickey game using a barely altered DKR engine and code by one of at least 4 dev teams is the reason Dinosaur Planet wasn't finished
they could have had zero gamed in progress besides DP and they still wouldn't have finished it before the n64 died

>>714522642
Iwata was probably more involved with most of the series on the right during Yamauchi's time than Yamauchi was.

>>714544062
it would've been so fun to see Diddy interacting with his friends Banjo and Conker

>>714545172
that's all

>>714545172
>>714545098
>>714545026
This is missing Banjo GameCube as well as the DK games (not just racing) that Nintendo would've inevitably forced Rare to make if they bought them out. Also DKC Returns never happens in this timeline so it's interesting to imagine what Retro would've done instead after Prime 3

>>714545217
>with most of the series on the right
*on the left

>>714545172
>platformers not being marketable on Xbox
The issue is that the majority of 3D platformers exclusively on the Xbox were just shit.

If nintendo would've bought Rare
they probably wouldn't bought Retro

>>714522241 (OP)
retardation

>>714531554
Oh sorry I didn't like your fucking Lego Cars game, Gregg.

>>714531554
The sad part about Nuts & Bolts is that Rare left it the last Banjo game, they never went back to the drawing board and decided “oh shit this experimental game ain’t doing so hot, maybe we should give them that Banjo Threeie they want”

Take for instance Punch Out on Wii, it’s very fun, timeless, has lots of charm, yet it’s the last game in the series, they never made another one, but the game is so good it could remain the last in the series as a perfect send off. Mother 3 also

My point is that a game like Nuts & Bolts is horrible send off to the series especially with those ugly redesigns of the cast.

>>714545286
Anon, the timeline isn't working off of 100% hypotheticals
Does Nintendo forcing Rare to make games check out?
Yeah just look at the Mickey stuff
Is there any credence to buy into it the same way other hypotheticals are tested here?
No, it's meant to be an objectively analysis based on information we actually know is there

>>714545335
Yamauchi pushed for games like Famicom Detective Club to be made and saved HAL Labs from bankruptcy. Without him, Kirby would be a dead franchise after only 1 game, and Iwata would be a dead man decades before and virtually unheard of.

>>714545487
>My point is that a game like Nuts & Bolts is horrible send off to the series especially with those ugly redesigns of the cast.
It was done deliberately. Nuts & Bolts was a game specifically intended to demoralize Banjo fans and 3D platformer fans in general

>>714545487
>they never went back to the drawing board and decided “oh shit this experimental game ain’t doing so hot, maybe we should give them that Banjo Threeie they want”
No, the sad part is that they did. Gregg was just being a stubborn faggot convinced nobody liked Banjo anymore and refused to accept his stupid ideas killed his child.

>>714533647
Conker was Rare's Achilles heel.
Imagine spending the entire Nintendo 64 generation developing a single IP, rebooting it, and releasing it at the end of the console's lifespan—it's insane! All that effort could have been used on other games and avoided the many delays that others suffered.

>>714545502
>Is there any credence to buy into it the same way other hypotheticals are tested here?
>No, it's meant to be an objectively analysis based on information we actually know is there
Objectively there is absolutely no way Nintendo allow Rare to back out of making a Banjo game for GameCube when it was one of the top selling series on N64.

Worst case scenario, Banjo GCN would've taken slightly too long due to the sheer amount of other projects they were working on, and could've slipped to being an early Wii release instead. But it would've happened. No, the Banjo Remake concept would not have happened since that was an idea that was only hatched post-MS buyout.

And since Rare under Nintendo were universally accepted as THE Donkey Kong developers, it stands to reason the same would be true for a DK GCN/early Wii game.

>>714532598
Banjo characters do not fit in with Nintendo, they looks closer to early PS characters (namely Spyro).

They likely thought some third party would scoop them up, keep their lights on, and they could reap the benefits of working with them as a third party.

Reality was, it was either Activision or Microsoft. Rare was doomed either way.

>>714544954
>>714545026
>>714545098
>>714545172
>>714545232
It's amazing how autistic Raresnoys are.

>>714545487
>tfw Banjo was doomed to be Nuts & Bolts or a Live & Reloaded tier crappy remake where they'd ruin a lot of things and we'd just remember it for looking nice because Mayles was literally pic related

>>714529561
>Arms mentioned

Fuck I know this ain’t a Smash thread but fuck it, I’ve been following this poll chart for weeks, it goes by newcomer in each game (so in the Smash 64 column you’re limited to only choosing from the original 12), Min Min being in Smash resulted in no Arms 2, same for Banjo, heck even with his shitty Mii Costume Geno still got a remake of SMRPG, wanted to get some thoughts and opinions. Where would you rank certain characters here.

Remember it goes by newcomers in the corresponding game

64 = only 64 veterans
Melee = only Melee veterans

And so on

They must not have played the game. Conker was great.

>>714545813
>a shit platformer woth awful vehicle controls that gives up on original content 2/3 in and just becomes movie reference setpieces with zero replayability because the game is extremely linear and relies heavily on initial shock value
The multiplayer is only half the game

>>714545670
And that's not what the timeline is about
It's about games we know were confirmed to be in the pipeline.
Banjo-Threeie is not one of them
It's separate from biases and to say "Nintendo would demand Rare to do it" is nothing but a gut feeling
Butterfly effects Anon, the smallest changes can lead to the biggest unpredictability consequences

>>714539843
>>714540321
That era was when Nintendo had to start look for new partners and find ways to stay competitive with Playstation. Retro Studios and Silicon Knights were part of Nintendo's effort to reach out to more western devs as many were focusing on PS2 and later Xbox. Basically, Nintendo was in a phase of reshaping itself and before it finalized it's new era during the DS/ Wii times, we got an insanely experimental era with the GC and GBA.

>>714543012
>>714543218
>>714543570
>>714543807
Fun Fact: Nintendo counts Star Fox 2 as a 2017 game in its NSO Description despite the title screen having 1995 on it

>>714545813
Miyamoto played it.

>this delusion that Rare would keep Banjo alive and we'd get better games
You all know we'd be getting It's Mr. Pants DS and a Kinect Sports equivalent that would have been inferior to the Wii Sports games.

>714545787

Ultimately it's just really a case of a creator getting bored of his creation. It's always worth pointing out that Gregg only directed the first two DKC games and had far less involvement with DKC3 and DK64 who were largely handled by separate teams within Rare. The dude was always about swapping between different IPs and trying new things, that's how you go from making a beat em up (Battletoads) to 2D platformers (DKC), to a 3D collectathon platformer (Banjo-Kazooie), to a 3D Metroidvania platformer (Banjo-Tooie), to whatever Grabbed by the Ghoulies was, to a garden simulator (Viva Pinata), to a vehicle construction game (Nuts & Bolts) and then an open world online pirate game (Sea of Thieves).

Perhaps the most glaring mistake with N&B was tying it to a pre-existing IP instead of just making something new altogether, which is what I think influenced Rare's direction for awhile after the negative fan backlash to N&B.

>>714524203
>or develop Banjo in-house in Japan.
Japan doesn't get Banjo. Grunty doesn't even rhyme there. Everything with Banjo-Kazooie is British in nature. You're right about Rare needing a guide but no way do I want Japan touching Banjo. Hell, they shouldn't have touched Donkey Kong long-term. Gregg being burned out on platformers is bullshit, he just didn't want to do them anymore. The public was itching for Rare to come back to DK, the bongo games flopped hard and their output on the Xbox was horrible. The N64 had TWO Banjo games, and the IP skipped Gen VI. The public and the industry was overdue for a Banjo-Threeie.

>>714540217
I remember the threads hyping it up before people got to actually see it.

>>714546117

You act like Rare stopped making DK games during their time with Nintendo.

Gregg has always been the type to drop franchises after fatigue, DK included. Nintendo wanted more, so Rare made a new team to make DKC3 and 64

Banjo would have been treated the same. Be real.myijt

>>714546114
That’s because it was released in 2017?

>>714546239
>You act like Rare stopped making DK games during their time with Nintendo.
They stopped making good ones after DKC2.

>>714546114
fun fact, pirates have enjoyed SF2 since 2002 and it took nintendo 20+ years to complete the last 3 percent.

>>714522241 (OP)
They knew rare had peaked and was on the down hill tumble

>>714546114
I mean, it WAS -officially- released that year.

>>714544062
Would’ve been interesting to see Humba Wumba get a redesign to fit in more with the Mario Girls

I think the one big thing that make Nintendo EAD/EPD unique as a studio is not only their structure emphasizing multiple teams for varying budgets with specific focuses in mind for specific IPs but also their hierarchy is designed to mentor younger figures into inheriting their positions.
It's a double edged sword in some regards but when it works, it works.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if Gregg mentored someone who could possibly want to handle a Banjo-Kazooie game and create think boxes where they can actually innovate the formula to justify Rare's own philosophy, everyone wins.

>>714545230
>Conker
No man, not after Bad Fur Day
Seavor himself said Conker wouldn't likely have had a future had Nintendo owned Rare and while they might have given support for the title as much as they comfortably could allow it, I doubt they would've greenlit the game

>>714546382
Just use AI.

>>714546407

Bingo. It's easy to blame Gregg for not doing that, but at the end of the day it's Microsoft that owns Rare. They've never known how to run a video game studio because they don't know to make video games.

>>714546145
>Japan doesn't get Banjo. Grunty doesn't even rhyme there
If you want to rewrite all of her dialogue in Japanese while still having it rhyme and fit each cutscene or prompt, go ahead.

>>714546517
I mean they let Rare do whatever they wanted
I don't blame either of them because EPD's structured in a way most game studios aren't (unless I'm mistaken)
When you get down to it, it's like clockwork

>>714522642
>DMA Design
In a bizarre parallel universe, Nintendo is the owner of Rockstar Nort and GTA.

>>714544893
Heck Lonely Goomba refuses to do a Mario Kart World review, but I don’t blame him

>>714543218
Star fox would be alive if they just made an Assault 2 on the wii with the ground missions having actual level design not reused from the multiplayer maps and with standardized third person shooter controls

>>714546145
Grunty's rhyming just doesn't work in some languages. Japanese players still found Gruntilda funny though.

>>714535745
>reddit signature

>>714546675

Imagine being this autistic

>>714546382
Post more Humba.

>>714546675
muh positivity

>>714546901
It was never gonna happen
Just let it go bro

>>714546536
>>714546759
Regardless, the humor and the tone were all British by nature. DKC was also British, which is why no one gets DKC and its elements but Rare. They may get the gameplay right, but the core setting, writing and tone could only be done by those specific people in the development team.

>>714546901
If Banjo Threeie had released we wouldn't have ended up as gay anonymous forum posters and instead as normie game devs.

>>714523709
>Nintendo needed money
Nintendo didn't need money, they needed a partner who could deliver in time the game they proposed initially.
I think it's already a classic, but while Rare was doing the Donkey Kong Racing, they decided that, in the middle of the development, turn what they were working for some years into a GTA-like sandbox game of Sabre Wulf.

>>714546675
>I don't blame him
He had a social media meltdown because people pointed out Mario Kart has always punished 1st place and he has a nostalgic bias. Then he tried to insist he didn't waste much time on a game he hated while admitting he already put in several hundred hours and got autistic with time trials.

>>714546675
>hates the game
>still bought switch 2 and will keep supporting Nintendo
why are nintendo zoomers so retarded

>>714543972
It depends on how nintendo targ wrangles them going into the wii era after Ghoulies underperforms, though it do better as a mid gen gamecube game the on x box

>>714546675
>>714546973
>>714546776
Honestly?
I respect it
You don't want to make it your job to be angry and miserable

>>714544225
Wario and DK are the representatives for their satellite franchises. Yoshi is too but Yoshi's series is a bit odd cause it started out as a sequel to a mainline Mario game, (that's why so many characters from Yoshi's island are used in Mario spin-offs). Diddy Kong is one of the few DK characters that get to cross into Mario games but that's cause DK is the biggest satellite series. If Banjo were to by some metrical integrate into the Mario games through DK then it would have most likely happened during the experimental GC era when studios could do a lot of crazy things with little oversight. Banjo's series would be mostly separate but might have gotten to appear in Mario games had Rare started to connect him more with DK. Also, a DK Banjo crossover game would have also been a very Rare possibility.

>>714524203
If Sony had bought Rare, they probably would have been today what Naughty Dog is.

>>714546984
>lucas x claus
Old /v/ was into shota incest?

>>714545405
And Metroid would probably be dead,

But I would’ve liked to see Rare take a crack at a Metroid game since they already have experience with shooters going by Goldeneye, Jetforce Gemini and Perfect Dark

>>714545089
The softwares sales on wii collapsed in its second half and there was no momentum going into the wii U as shovel ware buying grandmas were done

>>714546675
>Lonely Goomba refuses to do a Mario Kart World review
only because he got destroyed on Twitter by both casuals and sweaty competitive players

>>714547052

Fair enough, but imagine being that miserable over a fucking Mario Kart game.

>>714547072
I doubt it
Rare is more experimental than Naughty Dog as a studio
Being owned by Sony doesn't necessarily guarantee British Neil Druckmann coming along

>>714547052
>You don't want to make it your job to be angry and miserable
That's literally what he does. It's just that this time he didn't have everyone on his side.

>>714547072

I'd take a dozen more Sea of Thieves over Sony story slop

>>714545657
Conker should’ve been moved to the Gamecube as charming as the N64 graphics are

And Dinosaur Planet should’ve remained as is even if Miyamoto was too stubborn about forcing Star Fox on it

>>714547215
He just doesn't like the game
Actually setting things up, getting the footage, writing a script, and putting on kayfabe to exaggerate your feelings for ad revenue money feels like poison the soul

>>714547334
>And Dinosaur Planet should’ve remained as is even if Miyamoto was too stubborn about forcing Star Fox on it
It was a business decision Rare gave full consent to
The recent interview with the game's director said from Rare's perspective they were releasing an ambitious original IP N64 game that'll immediately be mogged by games from the upcoming generation and that transitioning to a familiar IP on the GameCube would be the safer option.
Rare needed money, they're a business and Conker sold like crap

>>714546675
Friendly reminder that he got 9k VR in a dedicated grinding room

>>714545657

I'm still pissed we missed out on this game

>Racing game with tracks inspired by GTA3
>Ability to hop off your animal and ride another one mid race
>Tamagotchi/Chao Garden styled mechanics for raising your animal buddy

Shit sounds so unique. I still want it and we'll never get anything like it

>>714545670
I assume Gregg Mayles would be bitching about the wii not being HD behind the Scenes.

I wonder how many games Rare releases for the Wii U in this timeline I am guessing one required Donkey Kong platformer and one other new ipgame that is an experimantal thing they could not do until the HD era, go through the switch and when rare gets a switch 2 dev kits Mayles pitches some alt unitverse version of sea of thieves

>>714546382
>ywn get a Mario Party from the GC era with a Banjo Kazooie game board and the gimmic would be Mumbo and Wumba markers that you choose to side with in order to get Stars.
>No Grunty Spaces instead of Bowser spaces with special trivia questions going over the unique events that happened in your current playthrough of the board.
>No Cheato markers that give you special ways to navigate the board map or steal items/ stars.
>No Jinjo collection gimmic where gathering them all nets you a free star

We were robbed.

>>714547526
It was featured on the GameCube box.

rare devs all secretly hate rarefags and I don't blame them, rarefags are more rabid and nostalgia driven than nintendo fanboys. you lot never mentally grew up.

>>714547526
Remember Anon, games don't get cancelled or shift gears because they're "too good"
It's either because it just didn't work or....executive meddling
Donkey Kong Racing sounds cool but even after the change to Sabreman Stampede didn't work they didn't move back to it as a racing game.

>>714547334
>And Dinosaur Planet should’ve remained as is even if Miyamoto was too stubborn about forcing Star Fox on it

It was Rare, anon. It was always Rare's fault that DP got bastardized into SFA. Key staff like Kevin Bayliss and the game's director Lee Schuneman have always said as such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-bPiQr9AoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO7ocvmoDBc&t=875s

Their old scribes said as such.

http://www.raregamer.co.uk/scribes-october-19th-2004/

>None of it had anything to do with Dinosaur Planet. That was way before the negotiations started, and besides, the Rare-Nintendo relationship didn’t work in such a way that they’d just force the SFA switch on us.

I'm sad DP wasn't allowed to come together on N64 but the change was never forced upon Rare, Miyamoto just gave them an offer to combine it and his own action adventure SF concept he had brewing in Kyoto already and they said "sure, why not".

>>714547064
True but in that case Banjo's a satellite to Donkey Kong first and foremost because of the DKR association
Banjo's a foreign satellite to a satellite

>>714547643

This shit died to due Microsoft buying Rare. Between Sabreman Stampede not being the DK IP and switching the genre to an adventure game, it was doomed.

Could have had another racer on a console full of goated racing games

The 30 something Banjoomer
>Approaching his 40's
>Ignorant at best, stupid at worst
>Comes up with conspiracy theories satisfying his own personal biases
>Overhypes a series, treats Banjo-Kazooie as Rare's most popular, greatest game
>Begs other developers to potentially handle the series going forward much to their annoyance
>Fans of other Rare IPs are embarassed by him
>Cannot comprehend the nature and importance of human and artistic free will; has Bobby Kotick type mindset when it comes to what and how games should be made
>Has no idea how licensed merchandise works
>Has no idea how game development works
>"If Nintendo still worked with Rare, surely we would've gotten multiple sequels by now!"

>>714547334
I remember one of the developers, I think it was Shawn Pile, mentioning at a conference that if they failed the BFD pitch, the honeycomb one, the Stampers would have canned the game (almost three years of development to reboot it), so I don't think moving it to GameCube was a possibility.

I do think Banjo Tooie should have been a Cube game, though.

>>714546407
Happy 4th of July

Wario Land the 4th was one of the last games by Nintendo R&D that oozes soul

>>714547257
>>714547291
Of course the past is perfect, but I have a feeling that Sony would have turned Rare into something instead a bunch of nothing that Microsoft did with the brand.

I honestly can see "Conker" becoming a force of nature in the hands of Sony, way bigger than things like Sly Cooper and Ratchet and Clank, for example.

Nintendo generally doesn’t buy 3rd parties to begin with, especially those on the other half of the globe.

>>714547775
Yeah I know but you don't need the Donkey Kong IP to make a racing game
It's Mr. Pants is literally the same game as Donkey Kong Coconut Crackers
DK Pilot became Banjo Pilot
They could've switched Sabreman Stampede back to a racing game after the change didn't work and the racing game itself was actually good to begin with

>>714544821
>the story of nintendo execs laughing at the MS ones when they offered to buy nintendo
wait what

>>714545118
They didn't sell Banjo, Nintendo traded the franchise back to Rare in exchange for full ownership of the characters Rare made for DK. I actually find that admirable, letting the creators keep their creation.. or rather take their creations with them is a nice style of business I wish more companies would practice.

>>714547128
The Goldeneye and Perfect Dark developers left the company (forming Free Radical) early 1999.

>>714547526
It feels like around this time Rare just became a group of idea guys who never actually got far into making anything
>Donkey Kong Racing
>Banjo 3
>Conker Medieval or whatever

>>714547891
What about Next Level Games?

>>714547825
>I honestly can see "Conker" becoming a force of nature in the hands of Sony, way bigger than things like Sly Cooper and Ratchet and Clank, for example.
Conker would've only worked commercially if they openly, aggressively marketed him for the South Park audience

>>714546754
Star Fox on Wii would’ve been perfect see gameplay of pic related Kid Icarus Uprising was originally going to be a Star Fox game

>>714522241 (OP)
They got outbid by Microsoft and Activision.
https://www.engadget.com/2010-10-27-activision-and-nintendo-were-involved-in-rare-bidding-war.html

>>714547930
Next Level Games' owners were looking to sell, went to Nintendo, and they accepted the offer
We don't know if the sale was more or less expensive than what the Stampers offered for Rare but Luigi's Mansion 3 sold like crack

>>714547994
Correction, Sakurai thought about it for like 10 minutes before switching his mind

>>714547920

It helps having a partner that gives you the go ahead on your ideas. Microsoft denied pitch and pitch. Did you know Rare wanted to make Crackdown 2 at one point?

>>714547615
They did interviews with DKvine

>>714545118
They literally didn't pay for Banjo. Microsoft was always willing to let him get into Smash. It just happened to take until Ultimate for everything to line up right.

>>714546759
With Banjo in Smash it makes me wish we got Gruntilda dissing on characters

Similar to Snake Codecs and Palutena Guidance

>>714547905
It's just simple business
Nintendo had more reasons to keep the Donkey Kong and Star Fox characters and had no need for Banjo or Killer Instinct because they never touched those franchises to begin with
It's kind of like when the Mouse and Fox exchanged Marvel characters before the Mouse swallowed the Fox

It helps having a partner that gives you the go ahead on your ideas. Microsoft denied pitch after pitch. Did you know Rare wanted to make Crackdown 2 at one point?

>>714548105
>willing to let him
Nothing is free Anon
Being willing to let you use something != letting you use something for free

>>714547920

It helps having a partner that gives you the go ahead on your ideas. Microsoft denied pitch after pitch. Did you know Rare wanted to make Crackdown 2 at one point?

>>714545708
>Banjo characters do not fit in with Nintendo
they pretty much had prototype Banjo in DKC3

Conker is a fucking awful game only liked by people who think owning a game that's known as "that one M rated N64 game that sold like shit and goes for $500 on ebay" is cool and secondaries.

>>714548332
People only suck off Conker for the versus modes.

Rare just wasn't a system seller for consoles at the time. No one was lining up to buy an n64 for banjo tooie or conkers bad furday. People were buying consoles for Japanese games like FF7, MGS1, OoT, Super Mario 64, etc etc. So it made sense to ditch them for more focus on japanese development.

>>714548205
>Microsoft denied pitch after pitch.
Plenty of interviews said Microsoft was very hands-off with Rare
The games that got cancelled as we know from Rare Replay, interviews, etc came down to Rar'es own priorities, things just not working, etc rather than being told no all the time

>>714548041
Luigi's Mansion 2 sold decently and was a sucess as well, even the purists saying the otherwise.

>>714522642
>getting rid of burger shitters
Based Iwata.
Americans can't make fun art.

>>714548419
Donkey Kong 64, Diddy Kong Racing, and Banjo-Kazooie are in the top 10 best selling N64 games.

>>714548105
steve was likely a stipulation for banjo. just saying.

>>714548438

Lots of what was shown off in Rare Replay were ideas Rare toyed with and dropped. Things like Perfect Dark Core, Urchin, Crackdown 2, and Kameo 2 were pitched and denied.

>>714547008
>Punishing Skill Based 1st Players

After playing some Mario Kart, it made me appreciate F-Zero 99 more

Mario Kart is always going to be a very well made series of games and fun times are had, but every time I fire up F-Zero 99, I feel like I get more out of it. Like, Mario Kart is was always meant to be a casual free for all where items mostly determine who wins so that the more skilled don't always dominate. F-Zero 99 on the other hand has very minimal luck and I know when a mistake has or will cost me. I try to do better next time and sometimes it pays off. It's always fun keeping up with the more skilled players and pushing yourself to go big or go home.

Basically Mario Kart is a party game pretending to be a racer

F-Zero 99 specifically pretends to be a party game but is actually a legitimate racer

https://youtu.be/YFtdojW-C7w?si=GfFb5PdTRE1PuoU9

>>714548528
Now compare it to Crash Bandicoot series.

>>714548656
>F-Zero 99 on the other hand has very minimal luck
>random CPU vehicles that can kill you by spawning
>everything boils down to skyroad use
>your meter can fill instantly if stuff spawns in the right spot too
Go play GX or something dude

>>714548046
>>714548205
>>714548305
You keep posting it, but it isn’t even true. Microsoft asked Rare to develop it as the developers of the first game were busy, then moved it back to the original devs when they became free to allow Rare to work on their own games. This all took place over the course of a few months.

>>714548653
Welcome to the nature of the beast Anon

>>714548728
Okay. Crash is in a worse spot. The original isn't even in the top 10.

>>714548653
They worked on Kameo 2 for 2 years, but cancelled because the lead of that team just kept trying to make things more "mature" to appeal to what he thought Xbox fans were.

>>714548807

You do realize being hands off can be a detriment, right anon?

You can look no further than 343 and Lionhead. If you want a recent example, them allowing Redfall to release was a massive mistake.

In Defense of Nintendo going by the whole Microsoft Layoff Debacle

>>714548807
Most of the people behind that narrative are Nintendotards who hate Rare for going with the competition, it was a betrayal for them.

>>714549213
I don’t think any Nintendo fans care about Rare, it’s Rare fans who want to blame anyone but Rare for their failures (whether that be Microsoft or Nintendo).

>>714549093
Oh no I get you
I'm just saying the idea that Microsoft was this overly controlling, over bearing malicious force that sabotaged Rare by restricting their creative freedom and that we would've had a gorillion platformers is mistaken

>>714549121
Nintendo's evil but they're a Hank Scorpio evil
Evil sure but not a bad boss

>>714549121
Nintendo rarely layoffs its own staff and developers

>>714548774

News to me. I'll take that L

>>714549213
>Nintendotards
That's a weird way of spelling rarefags.

>>714549294

Gotcha. Agreed with you on that, then. That narrative was always fucking stupid and came from angry Nintendo fans.

N64 Rareware millennials are like arrested development traumatized manchildren that still haven't gotten over their parents' amicable separation. If only she never left or if only they could still get back together when both parents long remarried with new kids.

>>714549416

I can only imagine what we'd have to deal with if Nintendo went through a similar fate as Rare. Imagine the meltdowns.

>>714528080
he was in smash ultimate. kids can google shit you out of touch retards

I think we just have this romanticized idea on cancelled games and naturally oppose the big bad higher ups who took down said games and never stop to think "Maybe the game wasn't working?"
And yeah, there are definitely horror stories where executive meddling did in fact ruined everything but sometimes a game is just...bad and couldn't be salvaged.
We have this instinct to immediately cry out and lament these "wastes of potential" over fucking bare bones concept art or literal sentences but the second we see a cancelled game leaked that we don't like we proceed to trash it and celebrate it being a stillborn.

>>714549634
No they're too busy imagining a world if Nintendo never sold Rare. It wouldn't just magically timeline correct itself that it's just current Nintendo + Banjo Kazooie. If Rare was still Nintendo we would never have Tropical Freeze and I would never trade that game for Banjo Threeie.

Imagine the timeline where Nintendo kept Banjo-Kazooie and the series was licensed off to fucking Arzest
Take a wild guess what the discourse would be like there over the buyout

>>714549301
Sakamoto is a complete hack and all he did to recover from other M was to put every metroid fangasm into one game down to the title "Dread". It's going to bite him back if he ever does another after prime 4 because now he'll have to outdo 20 years of fanmemes and Retro. They probably gave it to Retro because he shat bricks when he saw Bamco's attempt.

>>714549416
>Nintendo fans in general
Rarefans don't buy alarmo's.

>>714541075
it was hundreds of millions of dollars worth of stock for rare they sold. If nintendo were in a better spot I imagine they wouldnt've let rare go

>>714549945
Sakamoto doesn't touch Prime

>>714546145
>thanks to Nintendo not buying Rare, Donkey Kong was finally able to do something unique for once instead of the boring Country formula
I may have grown up with the original Country trilogy, but I'll gladly take another Jungle Beat or an idea like Bananaza over Country any day. Let the gorilla be a fucking gorilla.

>>714550079
I always thought this screenshot looked like Donkey Kong was gonna rap

>>714549945
Yes they do. Stop pretending you aren't in any way associated with the söy e-celebs with massive memorabilia shelves behind them. You don't think the spergs crying about the evil Nintendo and Microsoft for mistreating poor Rare would buy an amiibo? They aren't playing Xbox that's for sure.

>>714549912

I meant imagine a world where Nintendo was sold off or fell off as hard as Rare did. Manchildren would be crying for decades.

>>714549330
Not your fault, there’s very little information on it. One of the developers who is probably where your information came from, also said he had no idea what any other team at Rare was working on

>>714549912
We would have way more Donkey Kong platformers though

>>714550079

Seconded

>>714550225
We could have had Donkey Kong Country 4 for the DS but those faggots opted for that abortion Diddy Kong Racing DS instead. There was no salvaging them.

>>714550079
>Jungle Beat
pretty boring game

>>714550012
He is the one who greenlights the stories retro come up with and the only reason those remains coherent and in line with the rest of the series and the other sequels is because it doesn't take place in the mainline 2D sidescrollers. And also because Sakamoto doesn't come up with them.

>>714550079
Gorillas are not ferocious or battle-hungry, they're peaceful creatures.
>Boring Country formula
If Jungle Beat was so fresh (the irony given that interview), why did it flop on the Wii without those dumb bongos and a better control scheme?

>>714534590
>Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini
Nintendo must've hated those games so much it published and marketed them itself in Japan

>>714550079
Jungle Beat is fun, but repetitive as hell. The amount of recycled content is ridiculous for such a short game.

>>714550335
>DKC3 went full gimmick mode
>DK64 was a glorified minigame collection
DKC4 could have been Yoshi's Island DS levels of forced gimmick shit. I'm glad it didn't happen.

>>714550431
>Gorillas are not ferocious or battle-hungry, they're peaceful creatures.
Yeah and cheetahs are anxiety ridden inbred abominations that can only chirp

>>714550335

DKC4 for DS wouldn't have been it, anon. The DKC remakes on GBA already had some of that 64 slop thrown in between the minigames and sound effects added in.

>>714550171
>Yes they do
We're 30-40 and buy actual alarmclocks by Sony and not because Sony is roleplaying a fucking videogame company. They even connect to the internet for more than the purpose of giving you nintendo directs and updates to bing bing wahoo schemes.

>Stop pretending you aren't in any way associated with the söy e-celebs with massive memorabilia shelves behind them.
>You don't think the spergs crying about the evil Nintendo and Microsoft for mistreating poor Rare would buy an amiibo? They aren't playing Xbox that's for sure

Show me 1 piece of merchandise with either of these characters. You won't even show me a port.

>>714522241 (OP)
Because they lost the three-way bidding war between Nintendo, M$ and Activision. That's all there is to it

>>714550079
>but I'll gladly take the idea of a game over an existing game

Get you head checked, you're starting to sound like the DP "fans".

>>714545657
L&R graphics were great on the Xbox. But fuck those word bubbles are bland as shit. The text just scrolls in it too. They should had just went with subtitles. There were a few thing L&R did that seemed lazy. The Barn level would be boarded up at night because they didn't want to do a night version.

>>714545042
cause they wanted to kneecap nintendo while launching their first console

>>714550815
I don't even care for DK as an IP. Jungle Beat just happened to be the outlier because it has DK doing something revolutionary, aka actualy using his fists for once. It's the game I had been waiting for since the SNES era when the original trilogy released and I'd be completely okay if it were the last time a DK game ever had combat. Thankfully that's not the case now that Bananza exists.

>>714551163

Bananza's the best of both worlds for DK, really

>>714551163

>I don't even care for DK as an IP.
I know, which is why you should stop posting.
>Jungle Beat just happened to be the outlier because it has DK doing something revolutionary
Holy shit, just like DKC
>Thankfully that's not the case now that Bananza exists.
And that you don't even have to buy it because you don't even care for the IP but now know that DK has the ability to punch. I think you've been punched too many time in the head, but that's just my opinion.

>>714551163
So you want more shonen elements in DK. DKC is western, leaning on looney tunes and cartoons rather than anime and again, shonen. Not that I'm attacking you for having that preference.

>>714551163
Do you think a dev at rare during the gamecube wii wiii u switch or switch 2 era would never think of punching?

>>714533362
Diddy Kong racing sold 5 million units

>>714551550
>Holy shit, just like DKC
You mean those fuck ugly graphics? Maybe because I grew up around arcades, but I wasn't impressed even as a child.
>And that you don't even have to buy it because you don't even care for the IP but now know that DK has the ability to punch
But I will. I like platforming and I like punching things, and Bananza just happens to be the second time my interests are in line with a Donkey Kong game so I'll give it support.

>>714551764
>So you want more shonen elements in DK
No I just find jumping around and beating the hell out of things to be fun. I'm not asking for a robust combat system, just a punch button.

Croc won

>>714547898
Microsoft suits had a meeting with nintendo suits to talk about a possible aquisisation of nintendo , nintendo representatives only laughed at them

>>714545779
>Raresnoys
Dude snoy is a Sony fanboy

>>714552470
The guy you replied to is a butthurt Sony fanboy that wants to dilute the term "snoy" by making it about anything but Sony fanboys.

>>714544954
Star Fox aventures would still be dinosaur planet

>>714552683
>>714547460
>>714547694

>>714524775
>The higher-ups at Nintendo would never let their devs say "actually, we don't want to make Mario or Zelda games anymore. we want to make random new IPs that are completely different to what we were known for before!"
But Mario Kart niggers developed ARMS and skipped Mario Kart on Switch.
>So why was Rare allowed to completely stop making Banjo games?
Because Nuts and Bolts flopped and Pefect Dark Zero flopped too, but Kinect Rivals, 2 and Sports sold really well.
>But that was never allowed to happen because MS bought them and allowed them to just leave Banjo to rot forever.
No, that happen because /v/irgin faggots like you don't buy games but bitch online. Rare had no support from its fans, that was it. Viva Piñata was on DS and it flopped there.

You are full of shit.

>>714549301
>Nintendo rarely layoffs its own staff and developers
Sure they do, they just don’t call it that, if they announce anything at all.

>>714553726
Yeah if you're just a contractor, but if you're a full time employee you're treated well.

I mean it's still shitty of them to just revolving door their contract work but still.

>>714554575
from what I've seen, that's exclusively an NoA thing
Microsoft's studios do the same thing, and look where they're at

>>714522241 (OP)
They knew they were cooked and had no more good games left in them.
Getting rid of Rare was one of the smartest things Nintendo ever did.

Rare's n64 games are borderline unplayable in 2025. They're just awful.
And before you "zoomer" me, i'm 44, i was a teenager when the N64 was king.

Because key staff all left before the buyout.

>>714555431

Not true. Just staff from Perfect Dark and Goldeneye.

>>714542669
Those didn't exist in 2002 anon. Pikmin yeah but that was still considered an experiment

>>714553604
>But Mario Kart niggers developed ARMS and skipped Mario Kart on Switch
They didn’t skip the switch, they outright couldn’t make it work. And being able to do a new ip doesn’t mean you quit making your old one

>>714555940
Yes animal crossing did but it was not new leaf level

Why did Yooka Laylee fail? I remember it being made by people from Rare

>>714522241 (OP)
Nintendo barely ever buys developers let alone foreign ones.

>>714556035
Because the ppl at playtonic were basically just testers. Also they're washed up, with no guidance.

The character design is horrible in Yooka-Laylee

Conker never came to Japan. It's not because of the late release. It's just so fucking vile & disgusting they didn't want it.

Was the nail in the coffin. Rare would still be owned by Nintendo if they weren't so cross.

>>714556268

Fun fact. Playtonic tried pitching a Banjo prequel to Rare after Yooka-Laylee. It's not publicly known but a few Rare circles are aware of. Obviously Rare didn't want it. Gregg Mayles and Steve Mayes are also not on good terms.

>>714556362
Conker was released in Japan and Miyamoto himself loved the pissing on the imps scene.

>>714556478
Conker only came out in Japan with Live & Reloaded
The N64 original didn't

>>714556598
Considering how bad the n64 did in Japan who was even buying new n64 games besides the ultra dedicated who bothered to get the DD and shit over their that late in the generation?

>>714556035
they double down on the larger worlds that Tooie had which were already contensious which meant you spent alot of your time running around in a big sandbox with barely anything to do