why did jrpgs peak so early?

What DBZ episode is this

>>714566747
says right at the top. you could've worded your joke better, like "i don't remember this episode of dbz!"

Technical limitations acted as an unseen editor who kept the worst of creative impulses under restraint. Modern JRPGs are bloated with needless excess. There's no elegance in their design. Increasing amounts of censorship, pandering to western sensibilities and the desire for an ever wider audience affects not just fanservice, but even the kinds of stories they are allowed to write.

>>714566796
that's not worded better

>>714566661 (OP)
i thought dbz couldn't get any weirder after daima

>>714566927
so you are telling me japs are shitty writers?

japan had their lost decades and hasnt grown economically for 30 years

>>714566747
Ghrono Trigger, so GT

Amazing how the genre peaked on the Super Famicom and quickly went down hill after this.

>>714566661 (OP)
I remember as a kid this cover made me mad because I kept waiting for Marle to learn fire magic and she never does.

Amazing how the genre peaked on the PS1 and quickly went down hill after this.

They peaked on ps2 with all the atlus games and have plateaued ever since
>b-but muh final fantasy
Shit series, shit gameplay, just spam you're strongest spell every turn to get to the next cutscene. Donkey and carrot shit

>>714567472
8,9,10>7
hard to accept but its true

>>714567472
The contrast with the remake just highlighted to me all the reasons I lost interest in JRPGs in the first place. The end of the PS2 era was the end of the genre as far as I'm concerned.

>>714566661 (OP)
Every single genre did. The early games in anything tend to be the respective peaks

>>714567472
PS1 JRPGs are clunky and awkward, SNES and PS2 era titles have aged a lot better

Ozzy (Osbourne, legendary singer)
Slash (GnR, legendary guitarist)
Flea (RHCP, legendary bassist)

>>714566661 (OP)
they haven't even begun to peak, it is just that most developers don't want to do what is necessary to push forward the genre of "4 niggas in a row". bravely default is pretty much the only one that made a meaningful, positive change to the formula.

>>714570092
Arent these their western names? Isn't actual Flea's name Ketchappa or something?

>>714571969
Yeah, in the inferior original slap-a-Jap version they're called Ketchup (Flea), Onions (Slash) and Mayonaise (Ozzy).

>>714567517
not 8

>>714570397
>bravely default is pretty much the only one that made a meaningful, positive change to the formula.

Um, no, that's Xenoblade sweetie. Also Monolith's next RPG on Switch 2 will push the genre forward.

>>714566661 (OP)
Just look at how many games SquareSoft made between 1987 and 1997. They didn't waste an entire decade making a single game. They made literally DOZENS, all with different styles and with different characters/stories. FF7 was just the culmination of all of that experience on new hardware.
This is also why SE will never be good again. They'll never make so many unique games within such a short period again, and the only experience 99% of their devs will ever have will be just working on one small part of one game for a decade.

>>714566661 (OP)
>Game has secret ending that you have no way in hell of discovering yourself without massive autism or hearing it from someone
This makes the modern devs "Everything must be retard-accessible and yellow painted all the time" break down in tears.

>>714566661 (OP)
Behead chrono trigger fags

>>714574823
SE prefers making 1-year into EOS shitty gachas and just add $40+ cash shop items into FFXIV when they need funding. Gets them as much as an indie rpg with 0.0000001% of the work and creativity needed.

the devs think what they made with limitation is perfection so when they have more tools to work with they refuse fulfill those limitations instead of adding more meaningful interactions with the enemies npc environments etc they add more various kind flashy attacks

>>714570092
What the. Was Slash always a Namekian? I thought he was just a regular dude with a funny helmet.

>>714574823
They allowed all their other great IPs to drop the wayside to irrelevancy cause they began focusing way too much on FF. I get it but it impacted them massively in the long run and not in a good way.

They should have continued to cultivate their other IPs alongside FF but didnt, now the Square side just pumps out mediocre FF games trying to retain a dwindling audience.

Losers.

>>714566661 (OP)
JRPGs hit their current peak last year. CT was never the peak btw, it was currently FFV at the time.

>>714574823
>This is also why SE will never be good again

Technically Square Enix has never been good. It was all Squaresoft. And I wouldn't mind games taking a decade to make if they were at least good but they aren't. Most aren't even complete, let alone good.
Square Enix has been shit from the beginning. The only reason they lasted this long wasn't because of the quality of their games, but because of the strength of the IPs they inherited from Squaresoft. And Enix, I suppose. I never cared much for Enix to be honest but even it was better than the unholy fusion that is Square Enix.

>>714575216
Is that why this was the last good FF?

If Chrono Trigger was remade I wish it was more of a tactical game like Divinity OS

>>714567472
contrarians will hate on FF7 when its pretty much one of the first and only JRPG's to have a story that isn't completely dogshit and has a memorable cast / moments

>>714575216
Basically just comes down to that. It's just brand name that will attract some people, the actual quality is shite.

>>714575518
It's good but we know it's the only one you played

>>714575518
The story is shite. It's absurdly simplistic and surface level.

>>714566927
JRPGs were always bloated, doesn't matter how far you go back. Their stories are good enough for a 10-15 hour action game, not enough for a 100 hour RPG. You play RPGs to, y'know, roleplay?. To create your own character and live out a fantasy?. Why do white men understand this, but Nipponese herbivore men do not?.

>>714575496
It may have been the last good JRPG in general.

>>714570213
nobody cares about dragon quest

>>714575593
my first was FF IV achtually, then all of SMT, a few persona games and Chronotrigger.
>>714575597
>It's absurdly simplistic and surface level.
like 95% of JRPG's that can be summed up as "oh shit the world is ending, go grind nigger" ?
FF7 actually has shit going on it and cloud in particular is a compelling protag with understandable motivations and feels which automatically makes it better than most.

>>714575764
Patricians do

>>714575518
It literally stole the big plot twist from Phantasy Star IV, which had a much more cohesive story than FF7's convoluted environmental lecture. Even Chrono Trigger had a better story.

>>714566661 (OP)
Jrpgs are boring kidslop, play eldenring like a real man

>>714567472
Remake made this obsolete

>>714575924
FF7 has way better music, cooler enemies and cooler characters though so i don't care if it "stole", it did it better
>convoluted environmental lecture
only one aspect of the plot, it's convoluted nature comes from it's milking over the 30 years since it's release and expanding on every stupid detail through movies and a million spin off games

>>714566661 (OP)
Wake me up when they remake crono trigger with hyper realistic graphics and souls combat

>>714566661 (OP)
I wish (real hardware) DS or 3DS had a simple way to stream the game to a TV.
It's a very asocial experience to play it on the tiny screen by myself instead of on the TV.

>>714576170
You're going to get neither. If a remake ever happens it will be more 2D HD garbage that looks straight up worse than the original game.

>>714567423
early designs had Lucca and Marle learning eachothers magic sets and Toriyama's concept art and illustrations reflected this

>>714566661 (OP)
Is this a must play for discovering FF? What about 8?

>>714571969
>>714574221
their names were Mayonnaise, Vinegar, and Shoyu (Onions Sauce), actually

>>714570213
>Grinds metal slimes for 15 hours
Peak gameplay

>>714576426
oops, forgot the word filter
soi sauce

>>714575972
>rollslop

>>714576189
you could always emulate

>>714575171
Based Qaditsu enjoyer
I entirely agree

>>714566974
It was your job to do it, not him.

>>714575772
>like 95% of JRPG's that can be summed up as "oh shit the world is ending, go grind nigger" ?
>FF7 actually has shit going on it and cloud in particular is a compelling protag with understandable motivations and feels which automatically makes it better than most

Is FF7 the only JRPG you've played? Xenogears characters and story fucking rips FF a new one mate.

Play Treasure of the Rudras

>>714577616
>Is FF7 the only JRPG you've played? Xenogears characters and story fucking rips FF a new one mate.
Not really, they have a similar plot it's just Xenogears shits the bed in the second disc

>>714575496
but that's not a pic of FFIX

>>714567472
That game is cloud, sephiroth, midgar and nothing else.

>>714576337
Honestly all of 1-10 are worth playing, I really like all of them, even 2.

>>714577616
Xenogears makes every Final Fantasy game look like a children's game imo. Maybe the one that holds up the best is FFX, but FF7 is laughable in comparison

>>714578903
The Materia system is cool but always thought FF games relied way too much on their CG graphics than their storytelling. They stuck around cause they pumped money into flashy graphics to attract people.

Xeno games now dont have stories as complex and Xenogears but still 100x more interesting than story in FF games.

>>714578903
just to clarify i think ff7 is basically the jrpg handbook along with CT, it's great at everything across the board. xenogears is rougher overall but way more ambitious when it comes to story, and i just care more about that part

>>714579626
>still 100x more interesting than story in FF games

Than modern, post-FFX games. Earlier Final Fantasy titles had better stories than anything Xeno has turned into. Not that Final Fantasy ever had masterpiece stories, but they were still better.

>>714578903
>>714579626
>>714579643
>wot if a machine created humanity... but the machine was also created by humanity...
wow... so deep

>>714579865
On paper I can agree maybe but even then Monolith's cinematography and cutscenes are more enjoyable to watch and are part of the storytelling. I got bored of all the stiff cutscenes in FFX, I think i make it to that long road Mi'ihen and get bored fast.

>>714575171
smt is dead after IV wtf are you smoking

>>714566661 (OP)
Why does /v/ only like slop that appeals to all tastes?

>>714581668
/v/ is casual.

>>714567472
Was this a nostalgia thing? This game looked and played like ass. KH is better.

>>714566661 (OP)
Because fundamentally the JRPG was was a pixel art gallery with decent music layered with a moderately esoteric american rules engine and presented as something of a visual novel. The long play times were appealing in a world where most games lasted an hour and even fewer didn't end up with you spending that hour marveling at how shitty the game was. It never really worked out when 3d environments took over because Japanese aesthetics just look really weird which is why at best you see really shitty CG used in anime to speed up production of background dudes and such. The rise of western adventure games which were just as long and just as entertaining with ever improving graphics meant audiences didn't have to tolerate Japan's weird little girl panties and oppai milf fetishes.

That's not to say Japan can't produce some awesome games, because it can, but the JRPG became the stomping grounds of the otakus and the weebs who hyper focus on the genre, to the point there are entire discussions about which child character had their panties censored for the American release.

>>714575634
>*farts* *shits* y’know, *smarmy ass comment*
go back

>>714566661 (OP)
traditional jrpgs are a product of technical limitations of the time, and are ultimately defined by these limitations. turn based combat addressed the inability to create deep, strategic combat systems and allowed the player to make meaningful choices and use their imagination to sort of fill in the gaps.
it makes sense that modern games like DQ11 feel weirdly anachronistic compared to the classics when something like FF7 rebirth feels closer to what the designers in the 90s would have made if they had the ability to do so

>>714566927
This but for art. Late 2D graphics are like music; they were a universal medium of human expression where the East and West could share beautiful work. As soon as Japs could make weeb looking shit they did. And it was really fucking ugly for a couple gens until HD.

I've seen how big they wanted to make their games
Having hardware that allows them to be that big, means you run into all the scope issues.

How do you feel about the VA budget killing the game? Or the pacing?
Or being for the VN segments to overshadow all the cool buildings and ideas?