Stop Killing Games will actually kill all games

yes, we want developers to stop making garbage decisions.

>>714625457 (OP)
I am pro choice to killing video games

>>714625457 (OP)
these lobbyist fucks are already feeling the heat

>>714625457 (OP)
>Stop Killing Games will actually kill all shit games since nobody will be forced to buy them
ftfy

>>714625457 (OP)
God willing

NOW they cover it

I support this action

>>714625457 (OP)
I am from Brussels and I say kill them all!

Reminder that one of the members of this group is the woman who called lootboxes "surprise mechanics"
>Email: info@videogameseurope.eu
>Twitter: @videogames_EU
>Telephone: +32 2 612 17 77
Be civil.

Will there ever be an official argument against it that acknowledges it's not saying game devs need to run servers indefinitely?

>>714625457 (OP)
I thought this as well and brought it up a few days ago and got told it won't actually do that.

>>714625457 (OP)
where do I sign

>>714625457 (OP)
I will now support your petition

>REEEEEEEE PLAYERS WANT THE PRODUCT THEY PAID FOR TO CONTINUE TO BE PLAYABLE AFTER SUPPORT FOR THE PRODUCT OFFICIAL ENDS REEEEEEEEEEEE THIS IS SO DEVELOPER UNFRIENDLY, LET US DESIGN GAMES WITH PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE!
these fucking people are a poison on the game industry and need to be pushed out of it forever.

>>714625457 (OP)
>Stop Killing Games will actually kill all games
Good.

>>714625457 (OP)
Of course it will curtail their choice. The choice to put out games that automatically stop functioning the moment a server goes offline. We're not even talking about shit like MMOs. We're talking about single player games that for some godawful reason need to ping a company server or the game gets an error and crashes. They don't want you playing old games, they want you buying their latest offerings. So they've tried to make it so everything has a shelf life before it no longer functions. That's what this is all about. Slapping them in the balls and saying no, if you sell me a product its going to keep working even if I'm the last person on Earth playing it

There is nothing, absolutely nothing difficult about setting up player ran servers, i.e. dedicated servers. Only greed is in the way

>>714625457 (OP)
the people responsible for games dying oppose movement to stop games from dying? Shocking?

>>714625457 (OP)
güd
let it all burn
fuck EU btw

>>714625658
>feeling the heat
you mean all the money they are about to make sitting on their asses getting payed to lobby 24/7 with direct access to politicians while you have to get 1million signatures just to get 5 minutes of time?

>b-b-but my billions will merely become millions!
total corpo genocide

/v/ will apologize to Thor

>>714625457 (OP)
GOOD

>>714626341
We all saw how he reacted to Billy saying he was going to sue him. He laughed it off and said I'll just throw it over to my legal team big whoop. He's a richfag defending other richfags. Nobody is apologizing to his ass

>>714626481
>Billy saying he was going to sue him
sue him over what? what the fuck

>>714626481
Karl laughed at Billy too.

Good, you will stop deciding to make shitty online only games.
Fuck your lobby

>>714626481
>laughing at the game god
hubris

>>714625457 (OP)
>we won't have the choice to fuck you in the ass anymore
lol, lmao even.

>>714625457 (OP)
The choice of fucking gamers in the ass.

>>714625457 (OP)
Gee what an organic and natural competition!

It's like the axis of evil lmao not one company anyone even remotely likes except for like, SEGA?

>>714625457 (OP)
they should kill developers

>>714625457 (OP)
>a corporation said it, so it must be true!
Fuck off.
The quote in that headline is meaningless, by the way. Regulations curtail choice by definition, and if you think that means regulation is bad by definition then I invite you to drink all of the waste chemicals that would be in your drinking water if your government didn't prohibit dumping them there.

>>714625457 (OP)
>The developers that destroyed the only thing that made me happy are sad.
Good, i would strangle every single one of you with my bare hands if i could.

>game devs in the early 2000s
>you can play anytime you want, even couch coop
>game devs now
>INCLUDING COUCH COOP WOULD KILL US
lmao we have went backwards in tech for video games somehow.

They're afraid. Good.

>>714625715
Hope the EU goes all out and not only does what SKG wants but also regulates lootboxes and all the other gambling crap into being unprofitable

>>714625715
Wasn't that an EA guy who called it surprise mechanics?

>>714625457 (OP)
>Wait you can't buy a product under the pretense you can use the product indefinitely. That is our decision to make! This proposal will curtail developers choice!

>>714626816
the average large game developer these days would rape your mother to death if it meant another dime earned by every game sale
idk why people (>Implying jews are human) aren't on board with fucking them at every opportunity

>>714625457 (OP)
Why is it so hard to just allow people to keep playing their gacha games offline once they are EOS? Also why do single player games require me to login to their bullcrap servers? I'm tired of this shit.

>>714625457 (OP)
That'd be nice

>>714627065
I think it was a woman but yeah.

>>714627081
Either lolberts with "principles" or just your bog standard troll/contrarian.

>>714627087
>Why is it so hard to just allow people to keep playing their gacha games offline once they are EOS?
It isn't. It's piss easy. That's what's so funny about this whole thing.

>>714625658
>f word again
Hello, Ross.

>>714627081
>>>/pol/

>>714625457 (OP)
SKG will never pass in its current state because of the extra burden it will place on the indie developer community.
>Many marginalized developers—whether part of the LGBTQ+ community or working in underrepresented racial or ethnic groups—operate in environments already strained by limited resources, smaller teams, and systemic barriers to funding.
>“If these proposals become law without nuance,” said one Zurich-based queer indie dev who wished to remain anonymous, “we could be forced to release server code or build fallback systems we don’t have the budget for. Larger studios might weather that. We can’t.”

>>714627087
Its hard because it cuts into profits. Imagine you can keep playing your favorite gacha forever. You might not want to try out that new gacha coming out from the same company that made your favorite. Or you might not want to try the new ones from other companies. Get it? This is mafia shit. Once we say it no longer works its over. You WILL play the new gacha. You WILL forget the old gacha. You are nothing but a paypiggy to them, and they need to keep you in line

>>714627039
They already passed lootbox laws and it didn't change shit. Same thing will happen with this movement.

>>714625457 (OP)
I hope it does, fuck this retarded industry

>>714627402
>queer indie studio
>that wished to remain anonymous
Hey guys, some fag is saying he can't make a single player game

>>714625457 (OP)
Yes. And making it illegal to get naked in the middle of the street and shit on the floor is also curtailing your choice. What's your point?

>>714627402
Most indie games don't make live service slop.

>developers won't have the choice to buttfuck consumers
oh no!

It's crazy to me that we already had solutions for all these problems like 2 decades ago when they had much smaller budgets and smaller teams, but for some reason modern devs can't figure out shit that existed during the PS2 era.

>developer choice
didn't ask

>>714627740
>It's crazy to me that we already had solutions for all these problems like 2 decades ago
perhaps we need a final solution.

>>714625457 (OP)
>someone has fair, light criticism about Stop Killing Games
>"Nooo you don't understand the proposal, it's not X, it's Y"
>another person criticizes Y
>"Sigh... People still don't understand the proposal is not about Y, but actually about X?"

I'm fucking done with this stupid subject. It is impossible to say anything negative about it because Stop Killing Games is like the holy spirit: it's nowhere, and at the same time everywhere. It's about nothing, and at the same time everything. No matter what you criticize, it'll always be "wrong" because it is actually about whatever point you did not criticize; and this point will oportunistically change once the next person says they disagree.

Fuck everyone involved with this. Bunch of dishonest vulture clowns

>>714627493
only Belgium and the Netherlands did, not the EU

>>714627402
There's a difference between "online multiplayer no longer works because we shut the servers down" and "your game no longer works because we shut the servers down".

So at what point do you take responsibility as a consumer and stop buying shit from companies that have been know scumbags for nearly two decades now? I don't want more government overreach in my life or hobbies, be a fucking adult and stop buying from these companies to begin with.

>>714625457 (OP)
>kill all games
good

>>714625457 (OP)
only dogshit devs like sony and ubisoft would suffer

>>714627881
Kill yourself.

>Will make it more expensive to release live service games
Damn, SKG is even better than I thought

>>714627897
Does SKG fight more multiplayer modes in single player games?

>>714627402
Complete bullshit.
Indie devs don't make live service GAAS bullshit. The specific case where this will hurt real devs is only where their game relies on a lot of proprietary server and cloud infrastructure that might be tied very deeply into gameplay mechanics (like account systems etc that store player info). Since they don't have perpetual licenses to that stuff and stripping it out would be very difficult, they'd have to put additional dev time just to divest from their game or face consequences.
Doing stuff like keeping only the single player campaign for The Crew doesn't fall into this category.

>>714627402
>tiny indie developer trying to experiment and innovate online interaction
name 3

>>714625457 (OP)
>would curtail planned obsolescense
Fixed

>>714626237
EU was made to be hard for lobbyisrs. It's not enough that you smooth talk a few politicians like the houses in anglosphere.

>>714627881
What is your criticism with it? You have to be specific because otherwise it comes off as 'I don't like this' instead of 'this could be improved'.

All it takes to be in compliance with what SKG wants is to do something as simple as allowing players to redirect where the game is trying to connect to.
WoW, for example, is in compliance. You don't have to release dedicated server files, as they might include trade secrets. All you need to do is not make the game throw a hissy fit if your servers are off. Players will figure it out from there if the game is worth playing.

>>714627489
The funny thing is that this isn't even remotely an issue in reality. Gacha players are well known for jumping on new gacha games simply because 'dude new gacha game', and also complaining whenever there isn't a steady stream of new content to play.

>>714625457 (OP)
Game journalists are turning this into another Gamergate. Look how they're just making Asmongold and Pewdiepie the face of the movement and warning people about Pirate Software's harassment campaign.
>Many developers are now urging #StopKillingGames organizers to take a firmer stance against hate groups and clarify the movement’s values. “Preservation without protection is meaningless,” said Aviv Salinas, co-creator of Blood Nova. “We need to preserve games and the people who make them.”
>As the campaign approaches legislative milestones, its ability to remain inclusive and principled will determine whether it becomes a force for good or another flashpoint in gaming’s long-running culture wars.
These fuckers are really playing dirty now.

>>714625457 (OP)
>Stop Killing Games will actually kill all games
Are you American by any chance?

The whole point of the movement is to make games remain playable even after their profitable years are over and the developer pulls the plug.

Think of how you can host a cs 1.6 server rn or a team fortress 2 one yourself. Even if steam is gone, you'll still have the tools to keep the game alive with a community that still plays it.

Think of games that you've put money into, what if the servers shut down? should all be just lost?

>>714627402
You know whats an easy way to refute this?
Games like Power Bombrman.
And you know why?
Cause it's exactly the type of game that demonstrates what SKG is asking is 100% doable at an incredibly minuscule cost.
How so?
You connect to a server which can, on it's own running on a single machine, comfortably hold up to 10 rooms of 12 players each(120 players total max, meaning it could also hold 20 rooms of 6 players, each, and other combinations).
Don't feel like joining the server that is alway up?
The game comes with its own optional server you can run on your own pc, with the same exact capabilities of the main server.
And multuple players can host their own server.
How much did all of this cost?
Nothing, literally nothing, this is a fangame made by ONE INDIVIDUAL.
A motherfucking single person can do what this SKG petition asks, to let players host their own server and/or to allow pvp and similar solution when the original delevoper/publisher decides to stop officially support the game.
So no, don't believe the story that it'll harm any dev, not even the smaller ones, cause if a single individual making a free fan game can do it, then literally ALL developers of ANY type of indie game can do it as well.

And remember, ALL, literally ALL currently publisher articles against this petition are ALL misrepresenting it, claiming it asks them to perpetually and indefinitely always keep supporting a game they create, which is NOT what this petition is asking.
What this petition is saying is simple: want to end the service and shut down the servers? Free to do so, your game, your service, your servers, you decide, but allow the players to host their own as well, that's all.
No one, i repeat, NO ONE is asking them to do what they claim this petition is asking them to do, dont believe their lies.

>>714627740
>modern devs can't figure out shit
Modern devs are just playing dumb because they know that this GAAS planned obsolescence shit is completely artificial and that SKG is only trying to get games back to the default state they functioned in 20 years ago.

They're basically "you guys can't pass such a law because then we will be liable to make better games".

They have an excuse about "it's expensive to keep online games up because we need to pay people to monitor the game for racism and hate speech" when most modern games don't even have online chat.

Lastly they're saying it will be too costly to plan out because devs should be working on NEXT PRODUCT and they cannot focus on games that don't exploit through DLC/skins/season passes.

>>714628019
webfishing

>>714625457 (OP)
>actually kill all games
one can only hope

>>714627402
Get regulated, bitch.

>>714625457 (OP)
BRB gonna go on a killing spree with my ford car. Ford will be liable, after all.

>>714628321
Has dedicated server files available. It is in compliance with SKG proposals. Try again.

I have a deal for you all.

Legislation passes that requires with always-online multiplayer games with significant single-player elements to have an offline mode after shutdown.

This would save always-online games with singleplayer modes like The Crew was, or gacha games such as Genshin Impact, ZZZ, etc.

BUT

This does not include games which are structured exclusively to play multiplayer, such as MOBAs, competitive shooters, or MMOs.

Do you take the deal?

>>714628321
>innovate

>>714625457 (OP)
>could curtail developer choice
Yes that's the idea of regulating businesses like curtailing the choice to sell medicine that gives people aids because you made it using the blood of aids infected criminals.

>>714625457 (OP)
You mean like when all American companies including Microsoft, Meta, Twitter, Amazon and Apple when they threatened to leave EU over further regulations that still happened any way? Can't wait, take your backdoors as well!

>>714628321
i'm pretty sure users can host their own servers for webfishing, so its already safe from this.

>>714628268
>They have an excuse about "it's expensive to keep online games up because this or that"
>they're saying it will be too costly to plan out because devs should be working on NEXT PRODUCT
the petition isnt even asking them to do that at all.
it's saying that if they want to do that they should at least allow the players to keep the game alive after they shut down their own servers.

several hundreds of already existing games, both from well established developers and from indue studios, have custom player operated servers available, it is literally an easy thing to do.

Honestly this whole thing is starting to feel like Sarkeesian 2.0.

You all say it’s about ethics or accountability or consumer advocacy, but at the end of the day, it’s just another excuse to dogpile someone you don’t like. First it was “he hates Stop Killing Games,” then it’s “he cheated at Animal Well,” now it’s “he’s a furry and cried one time”? You’re not fighting for a cause. You’re flailing for reasons to justify being cruel.

Same exact tactics:
Take clips out of context
Spin every emotional reaction into “proof”
Invent some sinister hidden agenda
Make harassment sound like activism

Anita said games affected people and got doxxed for a decade. Jason said review bombing doesn't fix anything and now you want him to disappear from the internet. Only difference is the side of the aisle doing the screaming.

You turned SKG, which started as a genuinely good idea into yet another purity test. If you’re not 100% aligned with the mob, you’re evil. If you disagree publicly, you’re a grifter. If you try to defend yourself, it’s “cope.” This isn’t consumer advocacy. It’s just GamerGate with a new coat of paint.

Jason never shut down a game server. He didn’t scam anyone. He didn’t mistreat his team. He spoke up about bad-faith actors weaponizing SKG and now you’re trying to erase his whole career. What the hell is that?

You’ve taken a movement about preserving games and turned it into a harassment campaign to destroy developers.

Congrats, you’ve become the thing you claimed to fight.

>>714628230
The real reason is that no publisher wants a game like Neverwinter Nights to exist (which includes its own server software and module development tools), where people are still playing the game on user created persistent worlds 23 years later.

>>714628496
Pretty sure the initiative does not affectt f2p and subscription based games.

>>714627402
>this might fix real problems
>but what about these nonsense hypotheticals?

>>714628586
We will just sic our military on you.

>>714628687
>>714568353

>>714628496
No, because game companies can go:
>'Oh, the game is actually a multiplayer game, the single player is a bonus. Guess we don't have to do anything? :^)
It should be all or nothing imo.

>>714628714
It should, one of the examples Ross gave in the original video of this type of preservation done right is with the Megaman gacha game that went EOS and then turned into a 20$ singleplayer offline game on Steam.

>>714627294
are you 9?

does anyone actually ACTUALLY care about this?
Who gives a FUCK if gachashit dies forever? why do you want to keep that around

>>714628863
I don't think this type of rules lawyering your asshole friend would use in D&D works for EU regulations.

>>714628957
>it's only gacha games
every argument against skg is based entirely on some kind of blatant lie

>>714627489
This isn't true at all because if a gacha game is offline it loses it's value, you no longer can brag about getting lucky or your pulls, also online presence is pretty much over since the developers will no longer support it or add anything new, people move on to the new live gacha or entry in the franchise and then speculate all the new stuff.
People will eventually get bored of playing the offline gacha and move on or just keep it saved. Steam lets you download any game even if it's offline, you just need the ID of the game or if it's in your library you can at any time, so providing a download service is not an issue.

>>714629025
What else is there then
If its a live game that means its not worth keeping around anyways once it stops getting updates, who is going to play that shit?

>>714628019
The Blackout Club

>>714629103
you can't think of any online-only games other than gacha games?

>>714628692
of course, and that's exactly what this proposed law is about
what publisher wants doesn't matter, if you give me a product i should be able to use the product for as long as i want, even without your support, this proposed laws would ensure exactly that

another thing to remember is that ANY argument against change saying "it won't work" is irrelevant, things will always change, adapting is key, which means simply that what won't work is the current model, but the goal is exactly to CHANGE that current model.
in layman's terms, "if they do this, X and Y won't be possible, and thats harmful" is a false dichotomy, cause it simply means "X and Y can't work as they currently work if they do this", but the option to change how X and Y work always exists, as well as the option to stop doing X and Y and start doing W and Z, and so on.

They're framing it as if any form of change or deviation from the current model is a suicide, when it's not, it's a change and they're just scared to adapt or don't want to adapt cause the current model suits them.
Well too bad, cause your model needs US to trhive, and your model doesnt suit US.

Again, do not believe their lies.

>>714627402
>we could be forced to release server code or build fallback systems we don’t have the budget for. Larger studios might weather that. We can’t
Bullshit, then how does all the WoW private servers work? Also your entire game is downloaded into people's PCs, that's how datamine leaks happen. There are also private servers for genshin and other gacha games already. People are restored old games and made them online, this is just a bunch of lies.

Yes we indeed want to fuck over devs. Make piracy 100% legal while we're at it by the way.

>>714629103
No gets to play that shit because the company yoinked it from you altogether. That is the point, that you buy a game and don't get to play it anymore because the company chose to shut down servers. It isn't like the playerbase went away because they lost interest, although that can be a reason for companies to shut it down. That they don't get a choice at all to keep playing is the key problem.

>>714629103
>If its a live game that means its not worth keeping around anyways
Says who?

>>714629208
I think if a game is online only its not worth playing let alone preserving.

>>714629295
Why?

>>714628957
I care because it would force shitty companies like EA, Blizzard,T2 or Ubisoft to give offline play/local server hosting for unsupported games instead of always online shit or "sorry you can't play this game anymore :) thanks for your support though!"

>>714628496
i personally dgaf about the latter category but you could easily allow local hosting. it'd be a hollow version of an already hollow experience but it'd make some fags happy.

>>714627489
>our games are so shit that an old game with no updates, no events, no social component is too hard to compete with
Are gacha devs really so pathetic?

>>714629272
I already signed peter, you don't have to convince me.

name one single game that anyone played that was "killed"

>>714628687
no clue what you're on about buddy

>>714629353
Because they are always bad with almost no value.

>>714629295
I would argue that FF14 (until endwalker), FFXI and FGO work as standalone VNs, they have above decent stories that are worth preserving. Specially FGO that might be a chore to read, but it's still just a glorified VN.

>>714629403

>>714629452
literally all decent games are multiplayer

The good thing is that until the lobbyists pull up statistics in front of the Commission, they have no arguement against SKG.

SKG has facts on its sides - a dozen+ years of examples of sunsetted games, as well as solutions, modern private servers, server tools, the fact that modders were capable of easily patching 'impossible' online-only games to be offline-only.

Unless the lobbyist shills can PROVE that ANY method of preservation would be ruinously expensive, I just don't see the Commission giving a shit about their arguements.

>>714628957
i want to discourage anyone from even thinking about adding gacha elements

>>714627402
>in its current state
There is no "current state". The problem proposed by the initiative can effectively be interpreted as
>Video games which are not being labeled as services are charging lump-sum prices for products which outwardly appear as goods. However, these "goods" depend on services which - when the developers choose to do so - will be shut down and render the purchased goods worthless and non-functional.
It's up to the EU to figure out how to solve this problem. Even if all that means is requiring developers to properly label their games as services that can be shut down with X days of notice.
At least then we'll know where we stand and hopefully this initiative (and the result of it) will make more people aware that they don't own such games and shouldn't buy them.
Also, trying to frame this whole thing as hurting indies is such obvious shilling. They even pulled out the "queer indie devs" to play up the sympathy card as much as possible. Indies aren't making live-service slop. They don't have the resources to maintain servers in the first place.
99% of games affected by SKG will be AAA with 0.999999999% being AA and 0.0000000001% being indies.

>>714625457 (OP)
Good, if all games are live service, then all games deserve to die.
It takes a special level of mental retardation and illiteracy to believe you can fucking make a live service work with the amount of saturation currently hitting the space while calculated against the limited time and attention gamers can give it.
It's the same reason barely 4 or 5 MMO's can ever exist at any one moment in time, while others all kick the bucket not having achieved jack shit.
And if you are an indie dev attempting always online bullshit? That's like watching someone drink bleach, you deserve no sympathy, just Darwin's thumbs up.

>>714629452
considering how you initially could only think of gacha games i think that you have very little knowledge of vidya

>>714629497

says this game had 50 players when it was shut down on steam

>>714625457 (OP)
>curtail developer choice
yeah, that's the point?
don't make online games if you're going to delete it from existence in a year.

>>714629103
>there's an ace combat campaign lost forever because it was a paid dlc for a live service game
Plenty of bullshit to go around.

>>714629613
yeah so?

>>714629613
money stolen

>>714628496
>BUT
>This does not include games which are structured exclusively to play multiplayer, such as MOBAs, competitive shooters, or MMOs.
This is already the case. Ross has talked about how service-based games like MMOs already make it clear to consumers that what they're paying for is a monthly subscription to a service. Games which could be played totally offline but arbitrarily tie their functionality to a central server are the ones being targeted.
The goal of SKG was never to make live-service illegal, but to make its presence clear to consumers.

>>714629403
Apart from the obvious the crew, 2 come to my mind:
Dragons Dogma Online
Monster Hunter Frontier
Both revitalised by community-driven servers after Capcom shut them down permanently.

>>714625457 (OP)
Isn't this the whole fucking point of all law ? maybe we should allow slavery, maybe we got a little too restricting for those poor cotton farmer

>>714629613
It was an Ubisoft game, so you'd be playing through Uplay anyways.

>>714626341
I will after he apologizes to every ferret he molested in public.

>>714629613
Your question was
>name one single game that anyone played that was "killed"
50 people are 'anyone'.

>>714629741
Warhammer: Age of Reckoning is also an example.

>>714629720
Not quite. MMOs are also explicitly mentioned.

God I wish I were a youtuber. I've been calling this shit fucking dumb before it was cool. Now faggots at the EU and niggers like "thor" get to take all the credit.

Why can't you faggots understand how retarded this is? Literally anyone in the room with an IQ above 90 could see this never working.

God damn. Fuck anyone who signed this petition. Special place in purgatory for your wretched and pathetic soul. Rot in fuckin hell you losers. Get fucked. Fuck your gay petition. Glad to see this pile of shit ideas being splattered onto the concrete like a watermelon. Eat my entire ass. You fucking faggots.

>>714629668
>>714629698
>>714629839
>>714629771
the game was dead with 1% of its playerbase left, its time to shut it down

>>714626341
It's not even his real name.
Even better, the guy's career claims and entire life have been a scam and a fraud, it turns out. Why would I apologise to a scammer?
https://youtu.be/0jGrBXrftDg

>>714625457 (OP)
>These proposals would curtail developer choice
Do they grow these giant parasites in human shaped vats??

>>714629953
Why?

>>714629953
>Update
Sorry Ubisoft, you really shit the bed this time. Within those 50 people was one autist with a following and he's here to piss in your mouth.

>>714629951
nigga wat, it's probably one of the simplest things you could ever do, they don't want to because it's against their interests but that's all

>>714629953
Sure, just don't money stolen the 1% left.

>>714628190
wait until this rat also shows himself

>>714629902
Man I still have the disc lying in my desk drawer.

>>714629953
The Crew wasn't even the case of a game that NEEDED a private server btw.

There were literally unused code in the game to allow offline-play, which they didn't use because they wanted to force people to get The Crew 2.

>>714629741
>autistic retards playing 20 year old games with other autistic retards and thirdies on wooden PC's

if a game b rings literally 0 revenue because you have 100 players a day, why would they keep it up? It costs money to run a online game as a developer

>>714625457 (OP)
not my problem

>>714629928
It is entirely possible, and in an ideal world I'd love to see it happen, but I see it as a 'stretch goal'. The EU will probably classify them as services and not subject to the same kind of laws. I think they should be, obviously, but I'd also prefer service-based games to simply be illegal, along with movie/TV streaming so I'm not a great yardstick.

>>714630015
Good luck Telling companies like Rockstar they need to host a server where they leak all the source code for their games because you're the dumbest fucking bitch on earth. Go outside and fuck a cunt you worthless little man.

>>714629959
ZAMN! RicePirateSoftwareNation looks like THAT?

>>714625457 (OP)
GOOD.
TOTAL ALLGAMES DEATH
TOTAL GAMER DEATH
TOTAL EUSSRISTANI DEATH

>>714625457 (OP)
>live service games will have consequences for devs rather than them just being able to milk people
oh no!

>>714630107
LMAO u mad bro

>>714629227
Neverwinter Nights is kind of an extreme example anyway, since it includes not only server software but tools that enable the creation of new content for the game. The latter's the real reason so many people still play NWN, and even then it's a lot less than when the game was in its prime.

I don't even think devs would have to adapt too much to SKG. The average user is not going to want to play the same game forever with no new content added. The main change I'd see is that if you're releasing "Game #2", you'd have to be sure it's actually an improvement on Game #1, since you no longer have the option of pulling the plug and forcing people to play Game #2 or nothing.

>>714629953
welp time to shut down monster hunter wilds then

>>714625457 (OP)
>developer choice!
stop curtailing my rights as a consumer you money-grubbing thieves

>>714625745
There already is. SKG never asked that. All they need to do is allow the players to play the game locally, like a private server. Like Redfall did when it decided to close the studio.

>>714625457 (OP)
>Stop Killing Games will actually kill all games

You know, despite on how memed on they are, EA and Call of Duty doesn't even engage in this kind of thing.

You can STILL play all of the old CoD games' campaigns completely offline, and you can still play OG MW3 multiplayer if you want to, and there's a FUCK ton of these games.

Server hosting costs are a fucking meme.

>>714630294
Saying this doesn't make it true, Jason.

>>714630080
So let your players run their own servers, free of charge for you, giving you free marketing online so you can still sell copies without having to maintain it :)

>>714630107
>Good luck Telling companies like Rockstar
the EU buckbroke facebook, microsoft and apple, their laws are actually enforced unlike in the US where companies just pay politicians to look the other way
>they need to host a server
they don't
>where they leak all the source code for their games
they don't need to do that either, especially since laws can't be retroactive
We've had dedicated server software packages since the 90s. If modern devs can't do it that sounds like user error, but it will be the law regardless and they will be fined millions of euros for any future titles which don't comply.

>>714630145
You should sign a petition to stop killing your virginity. Eat a bullet instead you worm.

>>714625745
These guys want open source code they didn't make from a company they don't work at for a game they bought only a license for so they can.. Host their own servers and make their own little P2W sandboxes, because that's what this has always been about. That's exactly what humanity would do if this passed too.

Oh look sony you have to give us your everythings at a mega link because I want to host my own server and you know since its freely available I'm going to sell portions of it back out to other people haha thanks for nothing

>This is what SKG actually believes

>>714629951
>/v/iggers
>having an iq above freezing temperature
pick one and only one for all eternity

>>714627402
>marginalized developers—whether part of the LGBTQ+ community or working in underrepresented racial or ethnic groups—operate in environments already strained by limited resources, smaller teams, and systemic barriers to funding.
those very same 'marginalized developers' never even consider launching any (((live-service))) games precisely because of the much higher associated expenses and increased developer burden (maintenance, constant updates, instances across the world, database management, server-side storage and management, security investment to safeguard against data breaches, etc.)
only big corpos launch (((live-service))) anything

>>714629951
STOP RAPING THE FERRETS

Well it's not just here that has dozens of concern trolls. The steam community thread is filled with plenty of people willing to answer questions about what exactly the initiative aims to do but is also filled with the same arguments I've seen in so many threads here.
>This will kill all online games!
>You want to force them to give out source code!
>You want to force them to support the game forever!
Dozens of pages of that shit. I honestly wonder if it's just bootlickers, ignorant people or planned opposition.

>>714630419
damn you're butthurt which shitty live service game are you making?

Man its like saying
>warranties will curtail manufacturers choice! It forces them, against their will, to ensure their products last longer than a week.
Yes, that's the point.

>>714625457 (OP)

>>714630501
>bootlickers, ignorant people or planned opposition.
It's a mix of all three is the most honest answer.

Lobbying groups have a vested interest in order to sway public perception against the initiative, as we've already seen.

>>714630419
So it's about netcodes costing billions to redo anymore?

>>714630080
nobody is asking developers to keep it up, they are asking for developers to release the tools necessary for players to keep it up themselves through player run dedicated servers when official support ends, or have a fallback single player mode that doesn't need to connect to an "always online" service when the official servers go down in the case of "always online" single player games. not only would this mean that developers and publishers DON'T have to eat the cost of indefinite server support, they also don't have to de-list the game because it became unplayable and can continue to sell it.

>>714630402
you literally cannot do that as a AAA western dev, things have to be actively moderated, quality has to be maintained, etc

>>714629403
none that i know of yet, but i'm waiting for when konami shuts down the servers for metal gear survive and, to a lesser extent, mgsv so that i'll never be able to play them again and my money will have then been well-ly and truely stolen

>>714630501
All 3 probably, also there must be people getting paid to defend the corpos for sure. if they get paid to shitpost I'm they they'll pay people to defend them.

>>714630363
Did you even look at my meme?

>>714628496
>This would save always-online games with singleplayer modes like The Crew was, or gacha games such as Genshin Impact, ZZZ, etc.
>This does not include games which are structured exclusively to play multiplayer, such as MOBAs, competitive shooters, or MMOs.
>implement a souls like spirit or even its message system in a online-only singleplayer game
>game is now inherently a 'multiplayer' game
wow that was easy to circumvent.

>>714630628
>they are asking for developers to release the tools necessary for players to keep it up themselves
and the rights holders are going to say "no, go fuck yourself with a cactus and eat my entire ass 17 times, nigger" and then pull out of your region

>>714630419
Are you a Ubishart Looney Troon or a Concord Looney Troon?
Europe treats games as goods, not as a service, so goods laws apply here, therefore your license argument doesn't. Companies abide by forced goods consumer protections for video games. That's what you Looney Troon Amerisharts, Canadian cuckolds, and maybe some other 3rd World shitholes don't have in your national laws, while most of Europe does.
Maybe try being less of a Johnny Somali with your lack education about other places eh?

>>714625457 (OP)
And that's a good thing.

>>714630658
You will be able to play mgsv, just without all the online-only gear and unlocks, unless you're using mods. And the FOB content will be gone of course.

>>714629664
Do you mean Ace Combat Infinity? The 5-mission campaign was included in the base game, expanded to 8-missions via free updates. They sold Fuel as microtransactions, but I don't remember any of the campaign being "Paid DLC"

What arcane sorcery did these games use to support dedicated servers? I thought it was impossible?

>>714625457 (OP)
>the lobbyists are afraid

autists who play 20 year old dead games, spending thousands of hours in them, claim their 20$ was "stolen" when its shut down
lol
laughable
you got value for your money, now go buy the sequel
or grow up and stop playing games

>>714630080
>>714630628
It has been done before, the devs for Neverwinter Nights did exactly what SKG is trying to normalize. Just allow your game to be modded and then people will do the rest.

>>714630845
dota 2 is always online... everything is one steam, which hosts all servers...
lotta other games started as mods/indie games which naturally have a different mindset since they weren't even trying to make money to start

>>714630806
on pc you can't, maybe on consoles you can boot up mgsv without it phoning home to konami servers, but on pc you can't fucking play the game if it can't phone home

>>714625457 (OP)
Hmmm intredasting.

>>714625457 (OP)
Is this just a lobbying group?

>these proposals would curtail developer choice
ahahah yeah that's the fucking point hahaha
>ending slavery would curtail property owners' rights
ahahahahah

>>714630993
Pretty much, except you can't really buy politicians in the EU.

>>714630993
Yes, their purpose is to be professional shills.

>>714630968
This dosen't really mean anything. It's just a "WOW LOOK GUYS WE'RE SO PROGRESSIVE AND DIVERSE PLEASE DON'T REGULATE OUR MARKET PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE"

>>714630875
many old games that had online components came with dedicated server tools. even the original call of duty has dedicated server tools. it was incredibly normal back in the day to provide these tools.

>>714630814
Technically you could grind to unlock it, but it was sold in the store as a "pass" that unlocks it fully. Regardless, it's nonsense that people paid to play a single-player campaign and can't play it now.

>>714630968
Lmao. Yep, listen to us.

>>714630867
You sound so mad, kike
Are you afraid?
Good

>>714630953
Anon... How do you think pirates have played it? Also there is literally an offline mode, which tells the game to stop phoning home.

>>714630634
Kek, riiiight. You can really see the moderations and quality in those bot-filled MMOs, or recent AAA games that require you to always be online even if you play Singleplayer with bots like Battlefield 2042.
Remember when Blizzard believed hosting an official Vanilla Wow would be a moneysink before Nostalrius?
The only argument companies have is they believe this will hurt their strategy to resell these games in the future at full price with minimal added BS that was outsourced for no costs.

>>714631201
>microsoft
>jeet sounding name

fact: you people want to host child pornography on your private role playing servers

>>714630746
>pull out of your region
>>714628586

>>714625457 (OP)
>developers will no longer be able to choose to screw over gamers
oh no
how terrible

>>714625457 (OP)
>Stop Killing Games will actually kill all games
You mean I'll have to find a new medium to get my fix of gay romance and gender ambiguous protagonists?

>>714630419
>These guys want open source code
Ok we add that to the list

Will there ever be an official argument against it that acknowledges
>it's not saying game devs need to run servers indefinitely?
>it's not asking for open source code?

>>714630080
>It costs money to run a online game as a developer
Luckily it is free for users.

>>714629227
>if you give me a product i should be able to use the product for as long as i want
you can. code a dedicated server yourself and modify your own game for your own personal purposes, skg wants to force every developer to rewind time to the 90s and make every game have boomer shooter netcode. technological advancements like streaming textures, advanced server side physics, ai responses for npcs, cloud computing, thousands of simultaneous players, cross play, and countless other technological advancements you couldn't even imagine yet be damned because they don't gel with decentralized p2p netcode.
>They're framing it as if any form of change or deviation from the current model is a suicide, when it's not, it's a change and they're just scared to adapt or don't want to adapt cause the current model suits them.
because it literally is, you're talking about literal billions of dollars of effort here, because that's what it would take to completely overhaul all netcode like ever for every game. the whole industry is worth hundreds of billions, so if you add up the development costs of all netcode ever and to do a major rework like that would just not be realistic. an average AAA game costs like 80 million to make, when 10-20% of that goes in to the netcode you're looking at a cost of tens of millions per game to revamp the netcode, overall this will cost billions, a cost that the industry simply won't accept, and neither will gamers, if you think games are getting expensive now just wait and see how prohibitively expensive they are when you start trying to legislate them out the ass, not even to mention the principle itself is idiotic
you own the client side software, you buy it with no explicit date where support will end, which has been standard practice for basically any commercially available software that has ever existed if you don't like that then don't buy the game

>>714625457 (OP)
Remember: Please donate to the lobbying group to ensure that the government stays the fuck out of our games.

>>714627402
>This might kill off all Californian Nepobaby indie devs with their shitty coded games and DEI infested woke crap
AND I CANNOT WAIT!

>>714631326
This, we should not allow people to own any device with the capacity of storing data. B-because think of the children of course.

>>714625457 (OP)
It's afraid.

>>714631395
>completely overhaul all netcode like ever for every game
Except it's only going forward, so they'd design it properly from the start instead of overhauling anything?

>>714625658
EJew is all lobbyist jewry. This campaign is on balance a good thing, but some of you fags are a bit too optimistic for your own good. Corporations are HEAVILY privileged here.

>>714628687

Sarkeesian ain't gonna fuck you bro.

>>714631201
>>714625715
>"surprise mechanics"
>in bed with activision, EA and Epic
It makes perfect sense.

>>714631326
>you can host CP on your tumblr page
>we must ban tumblr
>you can host CP on your facebook page
>we must ban facebook
>you can post CP on twitter
>we must ban twitter
>you can post CP on instagram
>we must ban instagram
>you can (and there are people who do exactly just that) host CP on youtube
>we must ban youtube
>you can have CP on your HD
>we must ban PC
>you can have CP on your phone
>we must ban phones
>you could have printed pictures of CP
>we must ban cameras
>you might accidentally look at a child at some point in your life
>we must blind everyone on earth
>WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF MUH CHILDREN???

>>714631326
That's what BlueSky and pReddit do yes.
The former even had to employ a 3rd party organization to regulate all the child porn spammed on BlueSky by looney troon flags and pronouns in bios and had a breakdown over it a month ago. Pretty funny stuff.

>>714631395
>completely overhaul all netcode like ever for every game
SKG isn't retroactive, its even in the initiative that it would only apply to games made after the regulations went into place.

>>714631201
>WB, EA, Activision, Microsoft

>>714631552
You can touch a child even if you're blind.

>>714626341
What does he have to worry about? He'll never actually finish his game in the first place.

>>714628496
>This does not include games which are structured exclusively to play multiplayer, such as MOBAs, competitive shooters, or MMOs.
Anon jesus fucking christ don't give me a boner like that.

>>714631661
Don't jews touch, mutilate and suck the genitals of children? We should do something about it...

The fact he's unironically doing the 'heh it's only because of ME that your shitty petition succeeded!' is so fucking funny man, why is this dude like this.

>>714631661

>>714628190
Damn. Didn't know hosting my own server was literally genociding pocs and LGBT folks. I need to do better.

>>714625457 (OP)
*live service games
And nothing of value was lost.

>>714628496
MOBAs, shooters and MMOs all have bots. WoW even has party member NPC bots nowadays. There is no reason to kill games.

>>714630501
it's shills and industry spooks
the inudstry is deathly afraid of being put under scrutiny for its abusive practices, just like hollywood, the comics industry, and the music industry. they're full of slimebags who line their pockets by exploiting the weak and disadvantaged

There’s no way this is going to pass because if it does, gacha companies will be fully exposed for rigging their rates. Everyone will finally see what’s really going on behind the scenes, how they manipulate odds and design systems to milk as much money as possible from players.
If the public truly understood how predatory these practices are, the backlash could be big, both legally and reputationally.
In a fair world, this kind of system wouldn't even exist but these companies are anything but fair, they're calculated and ruthless, and they will throw everything they have into killing this.

>>714631778
I called it days before that he'd try to take credit when things don't go his way. He's a legit narcissist. Man's stuck in high school with regards to emotional development. He's like a retarded anime character. The literal meme.

>>714631564
I'm aware, however money has already been spent doing lots of legwork, games and engines build from previous advances, not to mention the R&D costs for things they already have in the pipeline, right now they're working on things they're planning to release 10 or 20 years in the future, asking game developers to completely rework all that at a whim based on something as insignificant as an 11 year old racing game is just about as retarded as democracy gets really

>>714631778
He is right tho

>>714631778
Nepobaby needs attention in between sessions of fondling his ferrets.

>>714630634
>things have to be actively moderated
according to whom you retard? each person runs their servers however they like. you see it in terraria, in palworld, in minecraft (before microshit's acquisition), in quake, in unreal tournament, and in countless other games
you're just tyrannical control freaks trying to dictate how and when people may play games

>>714632031
You are just jealous that Thor is diamond handing right now and that RNT is mooning and that you got a bunch of FOMO because you didn't get in on the floor level and that's really no one's fault but yours.
You shouldn't be projecting that on to other people.

>>714631996
>gacha companies will be fully exposed for rigging their rates
we already know.

>>714631564
see >>714632009

>>714632113
Couldn't make sense of that but I assume your schizobabble is essentially picrel

>>714632113
I have no idea what you just said there, maldavius. Try taking the furrets out your ass before posting.

>>714632171
Are you retarded?

>>714632216
>>714632224
Are you retarded?

>>714628957
I've seen too much shit on the internet that I took for granted would be there forever disappear overnight. All games should be preserved and that includes the bad ones. Anything that encouraged developers to use dedicated servers is also good. I would take things a step further if I could. It's a pipe dream but I wish valve would ditch the depot system and migrate to a more rigid version control that allows anyone to access any version of any game. Developers treat that stuff extremely seriously nowadays but the second it comes down to the consumer you just get assfucked.

>>714632245
yes, meant >>714631465

If stopping planned obsolescence and gacha cancer kills vidya industry than so be it

>>714632269
I googled diamond handing and it's cryptofag shit? I'm not a retard so I don't dump all my savings into someone elses pockets or follow their gay terminology.

>>714632164
>.00080%
>1 in a 12500 chance
what the fuck, this is downright criminal

>indie devs want predatory monetization practices in their gay walking sim procedurally generated games
lol

Let's be real, it should be retroactive for these kike publishers. I get that Ross is trying to be diplomatic and realistic, but these demonic pieces of shit and their cocksuckers deserve no quarter.

>>714631943
Piratesoftware used the example of FF14 being an MMO that I wouldn't be able to play it anymore if StopKillingGames was successful.

I show you this, the Trust system where a party of AI bots that you can level in game, the higher the level the better they fight, can fight in dungeons and in boss fights with you the player.
It allowed you to play through almost the entire Story of FFXIV completely solo. Only the very Endgame is required multiplayer.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Duty_Support
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MBp3QLek9A

The point here, is Pirate said if SKG is successful then say goodbye to forever playing MMOs because they would have to do something about an Eol plan, and the very example he used, IS DOING JUST THAT. They are reading the game for when they eventually turned the servers off on their end so it can still be played. Hey, he used FFXIV as his example I'm just proving here he has no idea about these games and no idea what he's talking about.

>>714631389
No, because you have to outright lie or make baseless speculations to make SKG seem like it's anything but purely pro-consumer.

>>714632009
i don't care, it's anti-consumer that developers and publishers are able to brick a game i purchased whenever they feel like not supporting it anymore. if new regulation fucks the entire game industry then they deserve it for investing in such consumer unfriendly practices in the first place. planned obsolescence in all forms is bad.

>>714632390
>Piratesoftware used the example of FF14 being an MMO that I wouldn't be able to play it anymore if StopKillingGames was successful.
MMOs are exempt because they are a subscription based service that you pay upfront game time for on a monthly basis and the terms are clear. They don't pretend to be something you purchase and then rug pull the game from under your feet years later.

OMG YOU HOMPHOBES!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU JUST WANT TO KILL LIVE SERVICE GAMES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE BASTION OF LGBT INCLUSIVTY
AND YOU DISLIKE LOOTBOXES BECAUSE THEY ARE AN ALLEGORY TO GENDER REVEALS

>>714627402
>>714627881
>>714628190
Am I in /r9k/ why are you retards answering to the same bait, look at the fucking catalogue, this post are simple being copy paste

tell me why EoL plans are bad without sounding mad

>>714630953
Here, disconnected from internet and ran the game just for you.

>>714631778
thor won
he gave gamers enough rope to hang themselves with, in return for eating his entire ass out, and then the immediately proceeded to hang themselves with it, literally 356-d parcheesi

>>714632504
Because it's impossible, it's like, so super hard.

>>714632381
In and fair and just world, the first kike who tried this shit would have been skinned alive by every judicial system on earth and be disgraced for the rest of his miserable life. Unfortunately we don't live in that ideal world.
EU wouldn't enforce this retroactively. They almost never do and in the few instances they did it was some serious life or death situations.

>>714628834
Holy shit someone with a brain thank god,I think that we need to screen shot this baits posts because clearly they are there just to get (you)

>>714626684
does wb even still exist?

>>714632587
definitely it's impossible. it'd require 1000 gorillion years of development time to make an MMO possible to self-host

>>714632587
>blops IIII-1
I didn't expect that.

>>714632491
It was Pirates words that if the initiative is successful then say goodbye to playing MMOs forever, I didn't say that, he did.

>>714632517
did you know that he worked as a qa...I mean developer at blizzard?

>>714632434
>planned obsolescence in all forms is bad.
literally every single piece of software has planned obsolescence, they're all sold to you with no explicit date where support will end.
>it's anti-consumer that developers and publishers are able to brick a game i purchased whenever they feel like not supporting it anymore
you can keep using the software for as long as you like, if you want to reverse engineer your own server what's stopping you? you're allowed to use the software you bought for your own personal purposes, what do you think gives you a right to THEIR software that you didn't buy, you're asking for access to that, but not only that, you're asking the entire games industry to be stuck in the 90s writing basically p2p netcode, which sucked, and forgo technological advancements, just to satisfy some whim, why? because an 11 year old game had to end at some point? grow the fuck up

>>714632707
he has had 7 pubertys, you haven't even had one, you and him are not the same

>>714632695
Was that the game with pear-body girls? Is it good?

>>714625457 (OP)
>Developers don't wanna try anymore
>make their shit a cesspool of gacha, DLC, subscriptions, etc
>enough gamers with brains call the industry out in the only country/ region that will listen and care
>smoothbrain shills like stevie bonifield try to convince gamers they're not tired of the shit they're tired of
And people seem to think this era is objectively superior to gaming 20 years ago. Christ...

>>714632587
>>714632695
D-DELETE THIS! THINK OF THE AAA NETCODES AND THE GORILLION $$$ REQUIRED!

>>714632779
agreed, the lies he spews are amazing
he's in a league of his own

>>714632762
>they're all sold to you with no explicit date where support will end.
stop trying to muddy the waters you turbo kike
support as in "providing additional updates and responding to customer complaints" is one thing
support as in "WE'LL FUCKING SHUT DOWN THE SOFTWARE, FUCK YOU" is another thing entirely
corpos are trying to revoke your ability to play the game, which is impermissible

>>714632762
software doesn't need support to function unless it's deliberately made to die without it. if you're selling goods with built-0in kill switches, then you're purposefully fucking over the consumer

>>714627402
Fuck off
I buy a game, I buy it for life. Not until some developers decides to fuck off and kill the games for good.
For that I'll pirate then

>>714632762
suck start a fucking shotgun you corpo boolicking kike.

>>714632164
yeah but I bet there are way more scummy shit happening behind the scenes.

>>714625457 (OP)

>>714627489
Make a better game, you fuck

>>714625457 (OP)
>no articles about stop killing games
>some lobby group releases a bullshit statement
>suddenly articles about stop killing games but it's about the released statement
Hmm... Time for gamergate 2.0 electric boogaloo?

>>714630535
The weak should fear the strong.

>>714632820
pretty sure the fame you're thinkingnof is dragon's nest
it was shit, it could have been good, but the execution was shit, it's /conceptually/ good but that's where it begins and ends, the actual game sucked ass to actually play

>>714632762
>UHM, THIS ALL HAPPENS *ON PURPOSE????* YOU FUCKING IDIOT??? YOU AGREED TO IT?????
tell me why you think your retard gorilla nigger talking points work

>>714628012
And even then, depending on how the legislature shapes out, it might be enough for developers to release Server-Client communication and data types. Which is a one click action in modern software.

>>714625457 (OP)
Good. You have the choice to kill yourself. Troon faggot. >>714625658
I

How many signatures are we at right now?

>>714627402
>meanwhile actual successful indy games, Valheim for example, offer the possibility to locally host multiplayer server or play offline singleplayer
Hmmmmm.

>>714625658
It's going to be an interesting few months that's for sure, now they have to come to terms with people wanting to own the games they buy and the excuse of
>"Oh well you can't own the game you buy because you see we're too retarded to negotiate third party licences that we use to make an Eol plan."

>>714633146
Almost 1.2M.
It's slowing down, really. We need some extra gas.

>>714633146
15 + 1.2 million bots.

>>714625457 (OP)
>We hear your concern, but fuck you

>>714633017
I had to look it up but no, it was indeed Tera

Even if this 100% kills games as a whole as a monkey's paw I still would have so much old vidya to play until I die.

>>714625756
The point is to curtail developer choice to be a reprehensible fucknugget raping consumers in the ass. Yeah, it's going to limit choice.

>>714625457 (OP)
That's fine I only play old games anyway.

businesses literally always scream and howl that regulations will kill their business theyve been doing that shit since child labor was legal and probably before then too

>>714632873
you're sold client side software, you aren't sold server software so yeah, it's pretty obvious what you're buying. does it say on the box or in the terms when you buy it "we will keep the game online for x amount of years"? no, and if it did it would cost a lot more, and no company that sells software does that, except when they're selling you shit like license subscriptions like wow subscriptions or microsoft office licenses
>>714632879
wow doesn't function in the way you're describing if you don't buy a license, same kind of deal with microsoft office licenses, or adobe or whatever, you buy the client software and the service they sell you or server access is a different thing.


your client software gives you the ability to play the game hosted by the server, terminating the server doesn't break the functioning of the game, you could reverse engineer your own server by modifying the game and come up with the same result
>>714633049
because it makes sense, don't buy an online game without an explicit period of service if you don't want an online game without an explicit period of service. it's like saying you should just have free world of warcraft forever just because you have the CD, retarded

>>714633213
My biggest fear are underage voters. Ich hope there will be a last push to at least 1.4m in the last days.

>>714625457 (OP)
Instead of killing video games let's start killing video game publishers and developers. Not in Minecraft.

>>714632762
Get gassed shlomo

>>714633380
>Not in Minecraft.
in Roblox?

>Lobbyist group comes out with same corpo bullshit statement
It's afraid, keep pushing

>>714632501
It's half literal retards and half shills trying to false flag. The only boards that attract more retards than /v/ are /pol/ and /co/

>>714625457 (OP)
Games are not physical products you can "own". They are walks in the park, a softball game with your friends, a trip to an amusement park. They are just things for entertainment to pass the time.
You don't gain full ownership of the park or ball game because you spent $20 on a ticket.

>>714633430
i accept your concession
>>714633509
correct opinion

>>714633495
>/co/
Explain

>>714633509
Denounce the Talmud

>>714628012
>stripping it out
See the thing is, is that they'd never have to strip it out anyway since SKG isn't retroactive. They would be building games from the ground up knowing that those licenses are now incompatible. Now the license holders can either change or get left behind as everyone is forced to stop using them.

>>714632995
Except this is about to pass under a legislative body that has a habit of putting individual's & customer's rights above a company's or brand's rights. Question is when will the commission act on it.

>>714633509
>>714633567

>>714628190
I remember the first week of GG, a group of devs got on Twitter and pulled this kind of "can't we all just get along" bullshit. I forget eh hashtag they used. It was similar to this, where they took a complete "now now children, listen to the professionals!" kinda smuggy stance, and of course THEY thought for some reason this would go over just fine, because that's how they live their lives and treat everyone around them

>>714633567
I didn't get a circumcision

>>714633509
>Games are not physical products you can "own".
They are according to most European national laws where they are treated as goods and get the consumer protections as goods. National law supersedes eulas and terms of service. Your Ameritroon companies have to either change tune and comply, or take their product out. Yet none of you take your product out, ever, no matter how much you are threatened by the EU, even after threats; because you are greedy bitches.

>>714625457 (OP)
>We need to have the choice of stealing our users' money
Too many words to say such simple things

>>714633509
Then the box should say precisely when the "walk" ends. Imagine paying for a ticket and being kicked out not one second later.

>>714633495
I would put /vt/ there too, at least before pre-hacking

>>714633357
People seem to have got complacent after we reached 1M. On the bright side, it seems if we were indeed being botted, that has stopped or significantly slowed down since. But at the same time the rate of signatures has also dropped, yesterday we only got 40k. Still a good amount and will carry us through if we keep that but I don't think we'll keep that many per day for long.
We should stop laughing at the shills for a while and organise another push, maybe bug some jewtubers (pewds still haven't made a video about it) or try to get some more devs on board (there's plenty of small indies, having them on our side will show the EU this is isn't just about consumers, the small devs are on it as well).

i can't believe we live in the era where 4chan posters are unironically defending anti-consumer practices.

>>714633509
>You will pay full price to perpetually rent and beta test our buggy broken games

>>714633748
>organise another push
There was no push, just bots. Realistically we aren't even close to 1M yet.

>>714633740
false equivalency
Developers shouldn't need to support a game for over 10 years.

>>714625756
Eurocucks love their regulations and hate freedom, news at 11

>>714633340
You are so fucking retarded it's hilarious. Keep dancing and clapping your hands, monkey shill.

>>714633781
This board has always been full of console war corpo fanboys.

>>714633826
Unless they tell you otherwise, the ticket is perpetual, or at least until YOU leave the park.

>>714633826
Who said anything about 10 years?
>false equivalency
The irony.

>>714633824
>>714633836
>>714633826
Shalom

>>714625715
>woman who called lootboxes "surprise mechanics"
I have a surprise mechanic for her if you get my drift

>>714629951
>Now faggots at the EU and niggers like "thor" get to take all the credit.
but he gets all the anti-credit instead, while others are farming him for content. he's the lolcow, the villain, the scapegoat, and it's super funny.

>>714625457 (OP)
>Stop Killing Games will actually kill all games
well then hurry up

>>714633340
Seethe

>>714633574
They have several posters with low-functioning autism who make the same threads every day and go on crusades against shows and comics they don't like. One of them is apparently called "Famicom" and every thread he's in will end up with like 20 deleted posts. The problem is honestly worse than on /v/. The other half of it is tumblr refugees and their childlike political opinions.

>>714633742
That board slipped from my memory because the very concept behind it is so retarded that I don't consider it a part of 4chan.

>>714633656
the only mindless consumers are you retards screaming your gobeldigook in to the ether. you idiots are literally making shit worse, old games get plenty of love and support after the servers get switched off, demons souls, resident evil outbreak, too many to mention. this harebrained shit is too dumb to work and anyone with half a brain can see it, you idiots don't know the first thing about what you're even talking about. the hill you're dying on is a game from 2014 that was still being supported in the space year 2025 for what? a few hundred players? where's the evil? now you're demanding that nobody ever can make a limited time game like super mario 35, a game that's whole draw was being this limited ephemeral thing. I genuinely haven't had a single intelligent response or something that engages with the big points i'm making, it's just okay shill, okay corpo, okay piratesoftware, okay jew. >>714633840 case in point. you morons are too stupid for your own good

>>714633921
Wut? Do you honestly believe the signatures haven't been spoofed?

>>714633509
Bad analogy.
>the park is publicly owned and freely accessible
>who owns the softball equipment? If I purchased it then it's mine period. If I rented it then I know full well that I rented it temporarily. If a friend lent it to me then shouldn't we be able to lend games to each other?
>an amusement park sells exactly what it advertises (with added surprise mechanics like accidents occurring on a ride). Some video game companies don't and should be held accountable when considering the rising costs of this form of entertainment

>>714633865
this is different than normal corpo fanboyism, at least that was arguing over which system had better games. this is arguing over if you should be allowed to own your games or not on a board that historically would have just told you to pirate them in the first place.

>>714633969
It legit is, or was up at that point, the least 4chan board when I lurked there out of curiosity

>>714633969
>The problem is honestly worse than on /v/.
/v/ has it just as bad with schizos

>>714625457 (OP)
>NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO LET US STEAL FROM YOU, YOU'RE LICHERULLY KILLING DEVELOPERS IF YOU DON'T LET US STEAL FROM YOU!!!!!
Total Game Developer Death. Total Publisher Death.

>>714634042
>nobody ever can make a limited time game like super mario 35, a game that's whole draw was being this limited ephemeral thing
good, this is a terrible practice and i will glad when its gone forever.

>>714625457 (OP)
Ok, now I am finally convinced that /v/ is nothing but astroturfing.

>>714633340
>just let us sell you software that we can shut down anytime
shut up you turbo kike. bless all the people who're hard at work reverse engineering servers to enable people to own their own games

>>714633340
It's abundantly clear that you have no idea how licenses, implied licenses, digital rights management, service entitlement and right to access work.

>>714625457 (OP)
>EU bureaucrat:
>I don't understand
>if we make that law
>it would actually have a tangible effect on reality instead of being pointless busywork to justify our huge salaries to the people we don't actually care about
I think there was an error of communication.

>>714625457 (OP)
That's the idea, yeah. If you fucks wouldn't keep fucking us over, we wouldn't need regulation to defend ourselves.

>>714634250
I find it funny that you're using a kike cartoon to push your kike agenda.

>>714634057
OY VEY THE SIX TRILLION HAMAS BOTS ARE FORCING ME TO RELEASE AN OFFLINE VERSION OF MY GAME ITS LIKE ANUDDA SHOAH

>>714634162
people like you often vehemently insist that video games are legitimate art, so how are you going to justify me not being able to make something limited and ephemeral, and having to hand over artistic license so my game that i poured my artistic vision in to has to be bastardised with whatever bullshit custom server the p2p decentralized network wants to turn it in to? i don't want my game to end up being the foundation for a tf2 mario kart minecraft style server, or some gay gmod darkrp thing filled with predatory servers selling admin accounts
>>714634220
literally every piece of software you buy is sold to you with no explicit end of service date
>>714634241
if i'm wrong show me the law, pretty sure nobody in this thread understands the above

>>714634336
>Everything I hate is Jewish
okay schizo

>>714634042
>old games get plenty of love and support after the servers get switched off,
Yeah, through piracy. This motion just makes it legal. Thats something you corporate sheep fail to understand. Or try not to understand because you love Ubisofts dick deep inside you so much.

>>714634401
>so how are you going to justify me not being able to make something limited and ephemeral,
Name an artist who has ever had the right to come inside a customers house and burn down his own painting when he feels like it. Go ahead.

>>714634042
Western devs decided to invest in that route fully knowing that cost efficient and customer friendly solutions existed, proven by your examples. Now they cry because they'll have to invest billions to change their netcodes or drop the EU market? TOUGH LUCK SUCKER.

>>714634401
I think you're hitting the nail on the head on something. I honestly think the whole "video games are art" argument works against this whole movement

>>714634401
>I need to steal the video game I sold you because uh... that's like artistic or something dude
wat

>>714634336
Kike > Communist

>>714634417
>you love Ubisofts dick deep inside you so much.
Ubisoft does the world a service by hiring 19000 developers to make the most dogshit games possible! Think of the AAAA scene!

>>714634489
On the contrary, people can just point out that people buy paintings all the time and artists don't have the right to remove those paintings because some bullshit "art appreciating license" ended.

>>714634484
japanese devs are not exempt from eu laws

FUCK video game consumers.
greedy PIGS. do they know the blood sweat and tears that go into making the games they play? Do they know that they eat up all the profit margins that keep developers developin' when devs have to keep games artificially alive?
give over the source code? that will KILL devs. anyone could steal their intellectual property with that. it is sacred and should not be forcibly handed over to people with no care for the developers.
GREEDY PIGS need to stop killing what they claim to love.

>>714626237
>getting payed to lobby 24/7 with direct access to politicians
Meanwhile in the real world:
> Forced Apple to use USB-C on iPhones.
> Forced Apple to open up iOS to third-party storefronts.
> Forced Apple to open up iOS to sideloading apps.
> Forced Apple to drop the restrictions on in-program payments having to go through the Apple Store.
> Forced Apple to drop the commission on transactions not going through the Apple Store.
> Forced Apple to offer browser choice.
> Forced Google to offer browser choice.
> Forced Google to be clear about their privacy policies.
> Forced Google to stop connecting data about users across multiple services.
> Forced Google to drop the restrictions on in-program payments having to go through the Play Store.
> Forced Google to drop the commission on transactions not going through the Play Store.
> Forced Meta to be clear about their privacy policies.
> Forced Meta to stop connecting data about users across multiple services.
> Forced Meta to not be able to press tracking ads on users under the legal grounds of 'legitimate interest' or 'necessity of contract'
> Forced Microsoft to offer browser choice.
> Forced Microsoft to loosen their hold over Windows Update and when it installs updates.
> Forced Microsoft to respect users' browser choice and not try to weasel in Edge everywhere.
> Forced Microsoft to make Edge uninstallable.
> Forced Microsoft to turn down the level of telemetry sent by Windows.
> (pending) Forced Microsoft to allow using Windows 11 without a Microsoft Account
> By way of having export control over ASML, the ONLY company in the world capable of making the EUV chipfabs that bake the chips that power ALL the world's modern computer hardware, they effectively make Silicon Valley and anything in it, on it, attached to it, related to it, etc. their little bitch.

>>714634524
>owning things you bought is communism
Cool story, Schlomo.

Why does consumer rights piss off consoomers so badly?

>>714634340
You do realize the signatures are going to be verified at the end, right? The only difference is that you for some reason blindly believe they're all legit, and such complacency can only hurt the movement. What's the downside to maintaining skepticism in regard to the real signature number exactly?

>>714634546
Are you legitimately brain damaged? Here's to paintings what your copy of a video game is to video games, meaning a fucking file of a photo of a Renoir painting.

>>714631326
this, and i really need to acces it through The Crew

>>714634804
>Why does consumer rights piss off americans so badly?
They're not used to having rights. They spent their entire lives sucking corpo dick, having rights scares and confuses them.

>>714634417
no, you can perfectly legally reverse engineer your own server, if you write your own code, and there's plenty of projects going on, like with demons souls, phantasy star online, resident evil outbreak that old star wars mmo, i mean the list goes on, no piracy involved.
>>714634481
actually you're demanding to come in my house and burn my painting down because you don't like the way i painted it, you're taking creative control away from me, why shouldn't i be free to make an ephemeral limited experience that isn't around forever? you're throwing a tantrum and demanding i don't make the art you don't want me to make
>>714634484
actually no, right now the investment is in ai, so you can have LLM giving npc responses like for a roleplaying game where npcs respond intelligently, cloud computing, streaming textures, server side physics, thousands of simultaneous users. this is all shit you could never do with 90s style p2p hosting like SKG wants, it's literally unfeasible and you're asking the entire industry to shitcan literal billions of r&d to satisfy some gay polemic of which you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding
>>714634520
if you force me to make every online game server function available after i shut the server down i can never make a piece of art that's limited and ephemeral

>>714628496
Nah, fuck you. Old multiplayer games of now defunct companies are still playable, there is no reason why this shouldn't be the case for new games.

>>714634401
Actually my art involves the body parts of people I murder, so by outlawing murder you're censoring me you fucking communist chud

>>714631326
I can do that on 4channel servers already.

>>714630419
lmao no one is asking for the source code, lying faggot

>>714634401
>how are you going to justify
through government regulation hopefully.
>i don't want my game to end up being the foundation for a tf2 mario kart minecraft style server, or some gay gmod darkrp thing filled with predatory servers selling admin accounts
what the consumer does with your product after they buy it is none of your business. if i could buy the mona lisa and take a big fat shit on it i would just to make a point here. i don't care about the developer's artistic vision, i care about my rights as a consumer who purchased a product. put the fries in the bag dev-boy.

>>714634894
Is this supposed to be le funny trolling? Because I'm not laughing.

>>714629959
technically it is. its his middle name.

>>714634804
because corpos will reduce the free rerolls on gacha if any pro-consumer regulations come out, so gacha addicts will fight tooth and nail against them

>>714634843
>Painting on a wall is the same thing as JPG file.
lmao retard
>>714634894
>actually you're demanding to come in my house and burn my painting down because you don't like the way i painted it
Stopped reading there. Monkeys like you should learn some reading comprehension before you start typing stupid shit on the post box.

>>714634894
>my right to make a limited and ephemeral game
corporations aren't sending their best
stop stealing people's games and money

>made freemans mind for fun
>jokes about how oblivious gordon is to becoming the symbol of the resistance
>tries his best to save games in the most peaceful way possible
>outside forces make him have to drop a drama nuke and kickstart gamergate 2.0
>"im the least quailified person to lead the resistance" - Ross freeman
Pure pottery

>>714635061
Well, that just means your copy of the video game isn't a video game either. The art angle isn't a smart one.

>corposhit using muh diversitah as a shield
like clockwork

>>714634936
you can already modify your game to your hearts content, that doesn't jeopardize my artistic vision, what does jeopardize it is if you full stop outlaw me from having the ability to create an ephemeral limited piece of art with an expiration date in the first instance. if this SKG thing became law i would literally be prohibited under force of law from making something which is as common as super mario 35. you're lacking the ability to process the difference between me creating a piece of art as an author, in your insect brain there's no distinction between you and davinci if you draw a moustache on a mona lisa jpeg and one track mind worms like you shouldn't be trying to tell people how they can or can't make art

>>714634894
>actually you're demanding to come in my house and burn my painting down because you don't like the way i painted it, you're taking creative control away from me, why shouldn't i be free to make an ephemeral limited experience that isn't around forever? you're throwing a tantrum and demanding i don't make the art you don't want me to make
More like you're coming to my house to burn down the painting I purchased from you because I changed the ugly-ass frame that came with it.
In any case you probably shouldn't sell your products where customer protection laws are strong.

Dude my game bricking your PC when you install it and the manual containing anthrax powder is just part of my artistic project. How dare you censor me?

>>714635213
>if this SKG thing became law i would literally be prohibited under force of law from making something which is as common as super mario 35
what part of i don't care and i hope this becomes reality do you not get? your appeal to video games being a form of art isn't going to sway me. i hope this gets regulated and i hope it personally hurts your ability to make whatever shitty "art" you are trying to make.

>>714628825
Wouldn't half of your military chilling in Florida by then guarding your own citiezens?

>>714635307
slave morality

>>714625457 (OP)
>curtail developer choice
You mean like every consumer-protecting regulation?

>>714635369
Slave morality bad. McSlave morality™ good

>>714635181
>Well, that just means your copy of the video game isn't a video game either.
Retard. When people buy a painting, they buy a proper painting, not a license to hold art on the wall. The price of the painting is not just the artists effort put on the canvas but the canvas, the paints and the frames themselves. Artist has no right to suddenly take away a painting he's already sold, because he sold the ownership rights of that particular copy of a painting.

>>714635213
>muh ephemeral art
NTA but this is the gayest shit ever. You don't get to have your cake and eat it. You can't do this performative faggot fart huffing """""art""""" bullshit and try to sell it as a product at the same time. That's the entire reason people are pissed off, they are being sold products and not ephemeral experiences, they want to keep using the product forever if they so choose.
You MUST choose if you want your pseud circlejerk or to make money, you can't have it both ways. They are mutually exclusive and the only reason it isn't in practice is because of faggoty documents that people sign their rights away. Get rid of EULAs and other shit too while we're at it.

>>714635245
>More like you're coming to my house to burn down the painting I purchased from you because I changed the ugly-ass frame that came with it.
Your fault. It's in the purchase contract. If you don't like the terms, you shouldn't have accepted.
Now stop infringing on my intellectual property give me back my painting you commie.
>>714635248
Your fault for not reading the EULA. It was well known that it was going to result in that. You also renounced to any right to a lawsuit when you accepted.

>>714625457 (OP)
wouldn't that be good

>>714635245
you can change whatever you want. you're telling me i can't make an ephemeral limited time thing. you're the one telling me what kind of art i can or can't make as the author, if you make your own thing it's a different story.
>>714635307
how about i come to your house and kill you rather than letting you force me to not have free speech

>>714625457 (OP)
Good
An industry that doesn't respect the consumed isnt worth supporting

>>714635101
I've watched Ross for years, his game dungeons are so comfy. This is all very surprising that he's become such a big name now, or well known name and not because I don't like him but because he's an old school nerd like me and I know deep down all he wants to do is play games and keep playing games, he didn't want any of this but it seeing games being destroyed was too much for him as a nerd to see art being destroyed as he as do I value games in that respect.

>Movement exists for EU
>americans come out of the wood work to show the world why they don't deserve to live for no reason

lol

>>714635482
>It's in the purchase contract.
Not for long. Your days of being a jew are coming to an end.

>>714635559
commie detected

>>714635484
it's not free speech to sell bad products you retard.

>>714635451
I think you're married to your analogy and you don't realize it works against you. People actually do pay for licenses to view art. You could actually end up arguing that a license covers less rights than being licensed to take a photo of a painting. I'm actually interpreting it FAVORABLY towards you when I say it's a JPG.

>>714634894
>actually no, right now the investment is in ai, so you can have LLM giving npc responses like for a roleplaying game where npcs respond intelligently, cloud computing, streaming textures, server side physics, thousands of simultaneous users. this is all shit you could never do with 90s style p2p hosting like SKG wants, it's literally unfeasible and you're asking the entire industry to shitcan literal billions of r&d to satisfy some gay polemic of which you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding
Good thing this isn't about MMOs or free to play games then. This is about games like Diablo that are maintained in arbitrary always online environment with half-assed excuses while being majorly focused on single-player gameplay, and that could potentially be pulled away from customers the same way The Crew was.

>>714635695
>People actually do pay for licenses to view art.
People don't pay a full painting price to visit a museum.
The museum bought that piece of art or leases space to a traveling exhibit that bought that piece of art and has full ownership of it, artist has no right to take the art back after the purchase was made.

>>714632587
woah wtf, all of those games released their source code? I thought Astroneer was still getting updates?

>>714635795
I think you're just a moron now. Do you buy the full control of a video game when you buy it? If we go by the art angle, it's clear, Ubisoft did nothing wrong.

>>714635695
>licensed to take a photo of a painting.
I seriously hope you retard aren't trying to imply that you need a license to take a picture of works like the mona lisa

>>714635909

>>714635948
Mona Lisa is public domain. Go look up licensing paintings that are still protected by copyright.

>>714635647
it is free speech you communist faggot. you're telling me what kind of art i can or cannot make. you're telling me my art must be available to be authored by you, you're telling me i'm not allowed to make art that doesn't satisfy your limited understanding. if i want to make a game that doesn't conform to your standard of making it in to some decentralized 90s bullshit where it's able to be modified you're asking me to cede creative control and not be able to make something ephemeral, limited and have a server controlled by me where I can choose what happens and have creative control, and end the experience for everyone, you're demanding to write the ending to my book, how about no? you're too dumb to even understand the concept of authorship, you're a mindless consumer that needs the endings of everything you consume explained to you by a youtube video which is where you get your ebin opinions about politics and social movements evidently

>>714632820
The combat was pretty fun imo. Ran like shit in the big cities unfortunately but modern hardware might just power through that now.

>>714629720
>MOBAs, competitive shooters
So we can't do what we're been doing since fucking Quake?

>>714627402
>tiny indie
>innovative online interactions
lol
lmao

>>714636012
>what kind of art i can or cannot make.
*sell

>>714636012
This, murder must be made legal so I can make my corpse sculptures. Anything less is communism.

>>714634894
>right now the investment is in ai, so you can have LLM giving npc responses like for a roleplaying game where npcs respond intelligently
That shit will never be done server side because it would cost way too much
>streaming textures
This is only useful for MMOs that want to get you playing ASAP instead of spending an hour downloading textures before playing. None of this matters after you finish downloading the textures
>server side physics
This only matters in competitive games and can be done client side no problem
>thousands of users
That's what private servers are for

I wish man.

>>714631069
>Pretty much, except you can't really buy politicians in the EU.
lol
lmao

>>714636012
>you're telling me what kind of art i can or cannot make
no i'm telling you what kind of product you (hopefully) can and cannot sell if this SKG regulation goes through, which is entirely different because the market has regulations that protect consumers from bad practices like having the ability to take away the product from the consumer whenever you feel like it.

>>714636012
>Me fucking over you in our monetary transaction is just me expressing myself, you BARBARIAN!
I think Microsoft should have the right to take away your PC to save you from embarrassing yourself.

>>714636012
Driving by this thread to say, The fact you keep saying "Ephemeral" and "limited" makes me think you have just been baiting this entire thread. That or are trying to find a way to argue being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.

>>714635484
Now that's some gaslighting!
I'm not telling you to do whatever kind of art you can or can't make.
I'm telling you to fuck off and let me enjoy my legitimate purchase in peace for however long I fucking want.
If you decide that I shouldn't have my painting because you changed your mind and won't refund me then fuck back off to the asshole that shat you out.
But if your painting suddenly starts rotting away because the ambient air changed, which suddenly means the canvas used for your painting is not compatible with said air, then so be it that's out of both our hands (though I'll ask myself what kind of shitty canvas you used and won't probably buy another product from you...)

>>714636012
>Scamming people is a form of free speech!

>>714631069
Yes you absolutely can. How fucking naive are you? We have lobby groups here too just like the U.S. same with the U.K. politicians are easily bought and for much cheaper than you'd think as well, sometimes it's for taking them out to a private dinner for 5k at a time (dinner costs 200 the rest goes to the politician you see how that works?).

>>714636012
1] You don't make shit.
2] You have no artistic talent.
3] If you don't like it, you can pull your product from the region. None of you ever do, because you are all talk, no bite. Same about Middle East. You lot gladly censor your games for them, and keep selling, despite complete regional difference in customer treatment.
That's why you are bitches, and you will kowtow just like you do to your pedophile human trafficking slaver forefathers, to blacks, and to troons.

>>714625457 (OP)
Yes, we know. Good. None of these faggot developers and shitty games should exist in the first place.

>>714636285
Truth nuke in the thread right here

>>714626123
>We're not even talking about shit like MMOs
You didn't read the FAQ on their website that makes is explicitly clear this will apply for MMOs

>>714636012
No one is telling you any of that shit retard. People just don't want ephemeral "art" as products any longer, they want to be able to continue the experience at any time since that's what they're paying for, not you infringing on those rights so you can suck your own dick.

>>714636285
Holy shit anon

>>714626097
Based CondoCHAD

>>714634804
As the other anon said, cognitive dissonance, but to give context
https://youtu.be/2LrFsXAvzqc?si=AUbEFs_gW1YvEGjb&t=228
Clarice urged them to escape but they had been raised so thoroughly in their confines they did not understand their situation nor the concept of freedom.
To them the well meaning outsider was just a stranger, and their slaughterers were who they should dutifully trust.

>>714636012

>>714636285
I don’t think anyone treats Vect like a god, in any sense of the word. Others move against him regularly. He’s just insanely adroit at keeping himself at the top of the galaxy’s largest cartel state.

He doesn’t rule through worship, or adoration. He doesn’t even rule purely through fear. He rules through political brilliance and mercilessness, and fear is just one tool.

I think a better foil is actually Guilliman. They are almost inverses of each other, in story, temperament, and values, and yet they do very similar things. They’re both geniuses at managing people. Both Vect and Bobby are two of the only characters in 40k that could run super-massive societies. I don’t think Big E was ever actually good at that.

But I think Vect could successfully rule the Imperium, once he parsed that bureaucracy is just a one-way tool of obedience, but Guilliman could never rule Commorragh, because it requires actual political skill and will, not just logistics.

QRD: It won't kill games, but in the hypothetical case it does, GOOD!

>>714635721
incorrect, see SKG faq
>>714636139
>That shit will never be done server side because it would cost way too much
literally has already been done
>only this, only that
only what faggot, point is that all of this shit is incredibly complicated and is basically only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to something like no man's sky where it's a single procedural world, where I can explore and get the server to spit out a unique planet that is added to the world for everyone else to see, and not only that but there's all kind of things in the pipeline right now. you're literally stopping any kind of progress in that regard just to satisfy some gay polemic, and no, for some of these games especially ones that have complicated shit it's just not feasible to get it working AND have it also work on p2p AND have thousands of player simultaneously, it even says in the FAQ you're too braindead to read that they acknowledge you can't do that and instead they say maybe you could uh... like scale it down or something? how about you shut the fuck up and let artists make art while you shut up trying to dictate shit you know nothing about and stop throwing tantrums because you're expecting everyone else to be behoved to your ill informed opinions
>>714636164
so if i don't sell it then what? you still wanna regulate f2p shit moron. and you're not even letting me make something EXPLICITLY limited, so how can i satisfy your idiot schizo desires?
>>714636270
>I'm not telling you to do whatever kind of art you can or can't make.
so I can make a limited piece of art with an expiration date, that isn't disseminated to the public after I stop it because I want everyone to have a limited experience? you are literally telling me i can't do that, you are trying to author my art work

>>714636837
Nigga what? Also if you want someone to destroy Vect, Khan would be more fun than Girlyman.

>>714636967
>how can i satisfy your idiot schizo desires?
by providing players with the tools necessary to continue playing the game after you stop supporting it. put the fries in the bag dev-boy.

>>714625457 (OP)
Yes, regulations are usually about limiting the choices that people can make. That's what regulations are.

>>714637141
NTA but its simple, don't sell to EU since next year their new rule will be even more gay

>>714626237
That's not the EU, that's how the UK petition works

>>714636213
>here is my game, it's $20 and will expire in 3 years, you are free to make a purchase if you desire
>game ends
>I HAVE BEEN FUCKED OVER!!!! HOW CAN THE EU ALLOW ME TO BE SCAMMED?!
>>714636234
the fact that you think the word ephemeral used to describe art says anything remotely out of the ordinary tells me all i need to know about you

You're allowed to show a film once, forbid people from copying it, and burn the film. That's artistic as fuck. Same with video games.

>>714636967
>literally has already been done
Going to need an example of this
>point is that all of this shit is incredibly complicated
It's not tho, you can do it all client side if you want
>no man's sky
Nothing is stopping you from having your client spit out that planet and then send the planet data to anyone connecting to your game via p2p
>it's just not feasible to get it working AND have it also work on p2p AND have thousands of player simultaneously
So just release files needed to run a server, they already have those
>you are trying to author my art work
Only if you want to sell it

>>714637350
>tells me all i need to know about you
Right back at you, Mr."Dude I LOVE to suck my own dick"

>>714625457 (OP)
Donald Trump will kill this movement dead.
The EU shouldn't be messing with American companies if they don't want tariffs to increase.

>>714637350
Become ephemeral, end your service. Scarcity is value is artistic intent, become a 0/1.

>>714637502
Nobody cares

>>714637350
>Purchase
Wrong term. Its Renting or Leasing. Nice customer misleading, time for EU to change your jewish ways.

>>714625457 (OP)
>developer choice
Developers don't make those choices. It says a lot that it's a publisher group making this argument

As someone who couldn't be more embarrassed to be a US citizen, I hope this shit spreads like wildfire. There's too much bullshit that's permeated the industry for too long

>>714637502
ubisoft is european

>>714637359
>You're allowed to show a film once, forbid people from copying it, and burn the film.
that's not what is happening in this case though. in this case it would be showing a film, selling the film to people, then going around and burning all the copies you sold with no compensation. that is essentially what SKG is trying to protect video games from. these developers and publishers should not have the right to retroactively destroy a product and make it unusable to the consumer because they no longer officially support it, if they are going to cease official support then they should have a way to allow consumers to still utilize the product in some form.

>>714636967
>so I can make a limited piece of art with an expiration date, that isn't disseminated to the public after I stop it because I want everyone to have a limited experience? you are literally telling me i can't do that, you are trying to author my art work
If your EULA says "Enjoy this piece of art, however know that after 2 years it will self combust" than sure. Not sure it will sell much though.
If it becomes unusable or destroyed after 2 years with only a vague EULA stating "This product could maybe become expired after some length of time" while saying on media "I don't plan on expiring my piece right now", only for it to self-combust a week later, then no, Fuck you, fuck your practices, fuck your art, give me back my money and fuck off.
Now tell me how video games and software expire when I can run decades old software and video games today.

Ironically, PirateSoftware might have killed SKG by derailing the conversation into a retarded direction and starting the wrong conversations.

>>714625457 (OP)
The industry did this to themselves. They needlessly attached always online requirements to single player games and now it's come back to bite them

>>714625457 (OP)
Good

>>714637359
You get already that with modern TV shows. Released only on a DRM'd streaming app, no DVDs or Blurays, entirely taken down a few years later.

>>714637776
This, SKG is basically just Gamergate now.
It's just a brigade of constant harassment spearheaded by the alt-right

>>714637765
I actually agree with you. I just think the art discussion was stupid. People need to put their thinking caps on. We need to discuss the nature of licensing, not the nature of art.

>>714637807
I never understood why this would be tolerated by the average gamer with a brain

>>714625457 (OP)
>piratesoftware this, piratesoftware that
Let's ask the real question. What does Hasan think of this movement?

>>714637896
Elon Musk supports SKG so Hasan automatically hates it

>>714625457 (OP)
ACCELERATE

>release MMO
>MMO backend uses a 3rd party tool you license that is not FOSS, say a proprietary memory data cache and message broker
>You decide you need to shut down your servers
>3rd party doesn't permit you to release to public
>Thats illegal, how dare you hurt gaymers

>>714637872
Average gamer thinks "I'm always online anyway" and doesn't fathom how that could become a problem.

The shills on 4chan are just the usual bored trolls and Discord kids who want (You)s.

They don't believe any part of what they're saying.

>>714628496
Congratulations, all games are now always online with no single player elements what so ever.
>that won't happ-
YES IT FUCKING WILL
YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW SUITS OPERATE.
SUITS DO NOT COMPLY WITH LAWS
THEY """""COMPLY""""" WITH LAWS.

>>714637872
Reminds me of TF2's Meet Your Match update. There's a large portion of the playerbase who has only ever experienced the garbage casual mode, unaware that the game used to have it much better with quickplay.

>>714627402
>will kill retard indies
I'm already supporting it, you don't need to say twice

>>714638012
This so fucking much. I'm afraid Pirate Software is right here.

>>714625457 (OP)
Good. Fuck off, nigger. If you can't even be bothered to put your millions of dollars and dozens of coders to work building a functional fucking product, then you don't deserve to keep your business running. What kind of stupid fucking cunt genuinely believes otherwise? Well, besides a jewish ferret rapist.

>>714628496
I don't negotiate with terrorists

>>714637141
why don't i just build a time machine so you can live in the 1990s and live your coddled manchildhood forever, it's at least more realistic than literally making a limited experience type game illegal
>>714637402
one example is some art game made by bladee, it's complete shit but if you want an example, microsoft featured it in some kind of multidisciplinary digital art thing
>you can do it all client side if you want
literally can't and the faq on SKG says as much
>Nothing is stopping you from having your client spit out that planet and then send the planet data to anyone connecting to your game via p2p
except the artistic vision for that game was for everyone to be part of the same universe, now you want to assume authorship and fundamentally change the artistic vision of the people making it
>So just release files needed to run a server, they already have those
release what? software that doesn't work? fucking gobeldigook? i'll get fined for not complying with the regulations if i do that, I'd be forced to only make something that works p2p, not something bigger and more complicated that i can manage only with the kind of immense computing power available to large creators
>Only if you want to sell it
again not true, SKG want to regulate f2p as well, but even so there's no basis for such an inordinate control over artistic integrity, so much of the economy relies on artistic output and the amount of control you're trying to exert over the most fundamental of cultural realities is so ridiculous it's not even worth wasting the breath telling you how stupid what you're saying is.
>>714637593
standard terminology when describing buying a personal software license
>>714637774
that's literally what already happens, except it's sold with 0 guarantee of support at all, it's your choice to buy it, every piece of software you buy essentially says "this comes with no explicit end of service date"

>>714625457 (OP)
good

>yfw ____
Fill in the blanks.

>>714625745
Of course not. It's all disingenuous bootlickers.

Since when /v/ got so left leaning??!!

>>714627402
>"SKG WILL HURT LGTVWTFBBQ TRANSQUEERFOLX DEVELOPERS!"
Damn, how do I sign the petition a second time? I'd love if indies and especially those neck deep in faggotry were under even more strain. We need less of that shit in vidya.

Retards are saying this is Gamergate 2.0, but not only do leftists support SKG, PirateSoftware is a disingenous retard who is probably right-libertarian but pretends to be progressive for the optics. SKG is what made the mask slip partially.

>>714638012
It's so retarded that people think anything good will actually come of this, Ross is highly autistic and just loving the attention, he must know how stupid this is. I would love for it to pass because fuck them, it's just never going to happen, you would have to be double digit IQ to think this would work.

>>714638329
You do realise that turning SKG into a right-wing movement will kill it dead in the EU, right?

>>714638203
>i just build a time machine so you can live in the 1990s
please yes send me back to when video games were actually good and when i bought a game i didn't need to jump through 6 hoops, 2 launchers, sign up for 3 different account services, and always be connected to the internet to play it.

>>714634894
If you want to make some cringe buddhist ephemeral experience, that's fine. Just make it noncommercial, otherwise it's just a scam.
Other points have been beaten to death already.

>>714638403
Good thing that's not happening. This whole 'MUH GAMERGATE 2" meme is only on 4chan, funnily enough.

>>714638403
Are these perpetually online, schizophrenic troons on twitter are esponsible for deeming it a """""right-wing""""" movement to EU legislation? It's pretty non-partisan and will stay that way.

>>714638348
Gaming journalists are already doing that and calling SKG a 'controversial' movement.
https://insider-gaming.com/what-is-the-stop-killing-games-controversy-ross-scott-movement-explained/

>>714637953
All they have to do is license it under the expectation that it will be released when the game shuts down. If the 3rd party doesn't like that, then they are never licensing their shit to any game

>>714633509
You can't tear down an amusement park you built in my backyard. You sell it to me or you abandon it

>>714637260
ok then. don't sell your live service slop in the EU. we can do without it. you, on the other hand, can't stand losing EU sales
when will you wake up and realize you can't have your cake and eat it

Oh no, it will curtail the developer's choice to fuck their paying customers up the ass. How awful!

>>714638543
>>714638469
You're fucking blind then
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/esports/news/sign-the-petition-pewdiepie-backs-controversial-stop-killing-games-movement-as-petition-nears-deadline/articleshow/122200591.cms

>>714638543
The article doesn't call SKG controversial, it's a clickbait title. The 'controversy' it's referring to is The Crew shutting down.

>>714637994
I'm sure I'm in the slimmest of minorities, but I think online gaming has done WAY MORE harm than good. Like, I can't recall a single instance gaming online and thought this experience has been enhanced. The only game that came close for me was final fantasy record keeper, which EASILY could've been and still could be a standalone offline game, but was (international)/ is (japan) a fucking gacha

>>714637845
>yes goy asking for your rights as a consumer to be respected by massive multi-billion dollar corporations who steal your games is harassment
did you blow in from stupid town

>>714638348
>>714638469
Isn't this "gamergate 3" or 4 now? I thought 2/3 was that one brazilian retard making a little list of woke/pozzed games (that he never updated again since day 1) that journalists had melties over for 6 months straight.
What's going to be the next installment in the Gamergate™ series?

>>714638662
You really had to dig into Times of India for an article?

What a fucking nothingburger.

*yawn*

>lobbyist group doesn't want consumer rights
No shizzle.

>>714638662
>times
>of
>india

Abolish IP
Reverse engineer games
>Gaijin salted
>Activision drowned in gatorade
>Ubisoft frog boiled
>>714636164
Stealing produccts isn't a bad business practice, it's theft and fraud.
But then again there can't be intellectual property as ideas aren't scarce

The ban on discriminatory hiring practices curtails my choice in employees.

>>714638454
good thing larping faggots aren't in charge of how art is made
>MUH MARVEL GOYSLOP IS LESS THAN 2 HOURS LONG!!! MONEY=STOLEN
>MUH VIDJA GAME ISN'T PERPETUALLY ONLINE AND HAS A PRE DETERMINED END POINT EXPLICITLY PROVIDED AT THE POINT OF SALE!!! MONEY=STOLEN
okay retard, back to the basement

>>714638570
These would be purely server sided things agnostic to "gaming" entirely. If there was a priprietary comparable product to Kubernetes, Redis, or RabbitMQ be expected to even care?

>>714638597
Fine by me Eurcucks, next law will saw I cant call people faggots or need a code of conduct.

>>714638749
>>714638761
The fact that it's spreading is what's worrying.

>>714628496
>j-just exclude always-online multiplayer games kthx
no and fuck you. if you do that corpos will retool their games to be always-online multiplayer and keep shutting them down
we want corpos to stop killing games period

>>714638668
"Online gaming" for playing with friends in PVE games for sure is enhanced.
"Online gaming" for PVPtranny garbage and shit like MMOs is by far some of, if not the worst experiences the medium has to offer.

>>714638203
>that's literally what already happens, except it's sold with 0 guarantee of support at all, it's your choice to buy it, every piece of software you buy essentially says "this comes with no explicit end of service date"
Right, except digital softwares and video games don't naturally expire, they're terminated. Not providing ways to use a purchased digital software that is proven to be functional by the community, while announcing you're terminating it's support is anti-consumer malice and should be considered theft the same way piracy is considered theft by you corpo shills.

>>714638814
>good thing larping faggots aren't in charge of how art is made
So you've not been to a modern art museum.

>>714638203
Oh you are just literally retarded or trolling, got it

>>714638807
When will you stop being anti-semetic goy?

>>714638004
The hivenind echo chambers these cretins create is so frustrating when you can't even discuss what any given subject OP pretended to post about, but only wants the juicy (You)s from [fill in the blank]fags responding to op pic like moths to a flame

>>714638831
I go on Twitter and still see progressives and leftists alongside rightoids promote SKG.

A single article from the Times of India with a shitty clickbait title won't change a thing.

>>714638434
but if technology didn't advance how would it keep your tiny mind occupied, you're clearly too concerned with modern games and you can't have played every single game from the 90s, even though there must be a lifetime's worth that suit your taste, get out there and explore anon
>>714638892
the service ends, it's an end of service, if you buy a wow client CD should you get an infinite wow subscription moron?
>>714638919
i accept your concession

>>714638004
No, it's because they're actually just unironic corpo shills. It's been bad for years and blatantly obvious. They obviously have a vested interest in shitting up any discussion trying to advocate for consumer rights.

>>714638919
I thought that was blatantly obvious, he's already let the psuedo-intellectual "Please let me make my EPHEMERAL and LIMITED experiences that nobody will buy!" schtick slip a couple of times already.

>>714631201
>Kundra Titz
>Embracer
kek
>>714625457 (OP)
What do they even mean by "curtail developer choice?"
This wasnt even in the picture back in the day, now all of a sudden its a do or die thing.

>>714638662
>>714638761
>>714638831
Bitch lasagna

>>714638983
Because they are all socialists
>Ban IP

>>714639078
The actual corpo shills are not on 4chan, they're in the Video Games Europe board of directors scratchign their heads on how to make even the smallest counterarguement against SKG.

>>714638828
They would still figure out how to do it if a law said they have to

>714639175
Apologies
>Abolish IP
Is more clear

>>714638771
What exactly would a "pirate" be "stealing" by downloading a game?
If you can't own it by buying it, what is the loss? besides to shareholder scum that will never be able to pretend to experience loss in a hobby like what gamers used to feel.

>>714639069
I have an unopened WOW disc, and its printed on the front that it includes a 14-day subscription. Somehow its impossible to do this 20 years later?

>>714639202
>The actual corpo shills are not on 4chan, they're in the Video Games Europe board
Yes. Ubisoft hired Babel Media and its employee base of pajeet shills so they could talk to them.
Ubisoft wants these pajeet shills talking specifically to the VGE board of directors. They didn't hire them to shill the talking point Ubisoft wants them to shill amongst websites used by the consumers, they hired pajeet social media shill-farms to TALK TO THE BOARDS OF DIRECTORS IN THE INDUSTRY AND AGREE WITH THEM

Shut up retard.
Fuck me drunk, you are STUPID.

>>714639231
Who is they that would be figuring it out? If IBM makes a product and you use it on your MMO backend do you think IBM is going to give any shit ?

>>714639069
>you're clearly too concerned with modern games
god forbid i be concerned for future generations of gamers because i don't want them to have to live with some shitty corpo hellscape version of the game industry where they don't know how long they are going to be allowed to play the games they buy because they could be denied access to them anytime, for any reason. the games i bought 20 years ago i can still play anytime i want, for a lot of games that players are playing today they won't be able to say the same thing 20 years from now.

>>714638885
I never had any interest in those kinda games, but I feel like if there was a all or nothing scenario, gaming would begin to actually heal if internet interference went away altogether. Sorry, anon

>>714639418
The devs go find a different product that does the same thing or you know, have their coders make it for them

>>714639539
And if that costs $300,000 who is paying for that development effort and testing?

>>714639339
More so that ideas aren't scarce
>Gaming "industry" is fake and gay
AAA and the fake and gayness of the music "industry" is evidence of this
>Games are art and devs should thus be releasing their games like artists
Pirating pngs of art is common and has no DRM
Artists often release their stuff for free then shill their Patreon or get money by actual fans via internet or cons

>>714639069
>the service ends, it's an end of service
You love Adobe don't you?
>if you buy a wow client CD should you get an infinite wow subscription moron?
No, but I should be able to legally setup a local private server for my own enjoyment, when and if Blizzard ever shuts down all their wow servers.

>>714639749
>No, but I should be able to legally setup a local private server for my own enjoyment, when and if Blizzard ever shuts down all their wow servers.
NTA but you should probably it say that then, because currently you need to provide server side code, and its something that isn't standard then you must provide an emulator to make it operable on their machine.

>>714639706
300k is nothing when it comes to vidya dev costs these days and they can use what they coded for multiple games and even license it out to other devs since they won't care about it being released to consumers as part of a game

>>714639501
corpo this corpo that, can you please stop larping for 5 seconds? the real hellscape is shitty government overreach censoring artists and halting technological development to suit your gen x tastes. nobody denies you access to anything, go code your own server if you wanna play the crew that bad, why should the standard now be to gimp extremely complicated games, and games with limited time models, world generation like no man's sky just to fit your polemic
>>714639749
>but I should be able to legally setup a local private server
you can legally modify your own game

>>714640171
>300k is nothing when it comes to vidya dev costs these days
I am literally just not going to sell to the EU hahahaha

>>714639712
I guess I just don't see what ever nedded to be "fixed" about the industry after ps3 gen
ps2 gen was, and likely always will be the best gen there was

>>714640037
That's what he was saying in the first place, nigger goblin

>>714640246
That will cost a lot more than 300k

>>714627402
>It'll harm some developers
I'll sign it again.

>>714640171
>>714640341
You have no basic concept of my premise. These are all ARBITRARY values I just made up. This servers to show your solution is retarded, what if said service was 1 of a kind? It can easily be an API to something not just the example I gave. This in the end is all to just attempt to fuck the indie developers.

>>714640290
SKG FAQ makes it clear that allowing a client to connect to servers is not what they meant. They want everything. And if you don't have it ready in a way the like "you have to take the long hard road" of making it so.

>>714640474
t. jewish shill

>>714640474
>fuck the indie developers

>>714640578
Fuck you nigger. If you want it to be specific then make it specific. I agree with the single player games and not preventing private servers.

>>714640183
>why should the standard now be to gimp extremely complicated games, and games with limited time models, world generation like no man's sky just to fit your polemic
if that's the sacrifice necessary to future proof usability of games then i'm willing to accept it. it's better for the consumer that they have the ability to play the game anytime they want even after official support ends. either through a single player offline experience, or through player run dedicated server tools that the developers offer. i don't care if it makes things hard for the developers. keep putting the fries in the bag dev-boy or i'm not giving you money.

>>714640671
Oh, I see, you're pretending to be Mr. Figtree.

>>714640671
It is specific, let me play my game after you shut off the servers, I don't care how you do it

>>714640474
>This in the end is all to just attempt to fuck the indie developers.
Damn, it sounds pretty based then.

>>714640183
>no man's sky
Which you can play offline. Hence it already fulfills what SKG demands despite having what you say "complex tech". Modern games are "complex" only because companies want them to be complex while using brand image and IP concerns as bullshit excuses when all they want is hook players on their platforms, keep them caged there, and move them forward to the next product while discarding the previous product. And if some consumers dares to complain about said discarded product, they just change the EULA while paying politics to look the other way and hope they have enough mindless wales to keep throwing money at them.

>>714640772
>Sir, this MMO backend is a cluster of non-x86 boards talking through non TCP/IP channels before we built this ASIC.
How do you respond without saying I have to build you an emulator

>>714640723
why make new games at all? if games are how you like them why advance anything at all? why not just ban games altogether, since you're allergic to technological innovation. just ban new video games and put all games we have now in a big library and you can play final fantasy 7 forever manchild

>>714640930
>why not just ban games altogether
Because that's not needed, duh.

>>714640917
Build your game from the start in a way that lets me play it after you turn off the servers

>>714625457 (OP)
BASED BASED BASED

>>714640474
>only argument is literally "But why tax high-income?! What if I maybe become a millionaire in 60 years?"

>>714640930
>OR WE SAVE WHALES OR WE SAVE SQUIRRELS, DECIDE NOW!!!
>we can do both tho
>NOOOOOO

>>714640671
no u autist

>>714640930
if the "advancement" only makes the consumer experience worse is it really an advancement? in what way does bricking the game when support for it ends improve the experience for the player?

>>714625457 (OP)
Yeah no shit commienigger. These kind of regulations arent money for big publishers and devs but would strangle small ones.
If you are forced to continue the support for a failed game for 50 years. Then people will think twice about releasing games with interesting concepts since there will be more at risk and you couldnt afford to support a bomb for 50 years.

This is all comes from commieniggers who dont understand where value and money come from. They think it falls from the sky, or that the government can decree the existence of value.

>>714640930
>if you don't let me destroy shit then you're against technological innovation
We didn't destroy shoes just because we invented cars, retard.
We can technologically advance without destroying previously existing shit.

What a fucking idiot you are.