Why do so many people say these games were the downfall of Pokemon?

>>714677551 (OP)
> so many people
Kantoboomer aren't people

Lycanroc

>>714677551 (OP)
Usually pokefags will dislike the second generation after the one they started with. Genwunners like gen 2 but dislike 3, Johtoddlers like gen 3 but dislike 4, Hoennbabbies like gen 4 but dislike 5, etc.

>>714677551 (OP)
They are the peak of the series though

>>714677551 (OP)
Maybe 3 people say that. Its not a common opinion at all, why are you trying to force a mass consesus where none exists?

>>714677551 (OP)
Nobody says they they’re the downfall, just that they’re the beginning of the end. They are arguably the best games in the series but Pokemon was dumbed down after they released

>>714677551 (OP)
Nobody says they they’re the waterfall, just that they’re the Malcolm of the Middle. They are arguably the most okay games in the series but Pokemon is for dumbed down people after they released

It's when they got rid of "Gotta catch em all"

>>714677551 (OP)
They definitely have a different feel to the rest of the series, which is part of why I like them so much.
The story's taken more seriously, the region feels less like a neighborhood and more like a proper RPG world map, the Pokemon themselves are also much more fantastical.
I know a lot of people like the urban fantasy aspect of these games but to me Ruby and Sapphire are the platonic ideal of what Pokemon should be.
Plus that fucking music good lord
https://youtu.be/Z9vqvfxoRBg
https://youtu.be/TEtlhq1PxI4
https://youtu.be/hnNNTVsvE4w

>>714678120
>The story's taken more seriously
It's arguably the silliest story in the franchise tho

>>714677551 (OP)
Were these the first games where the fate of the universe depended on the main quest?

>>714678296
yea, team rocket wasn't a big deal.

>>714677551 (OP)
I think the 3DS games were the peak of the downfall personally.
My only major gripes with Gen. 3 are the games looked too bright, the Pokemon designs seemed to clash more with the previous ones, and unironically too much water.

>>714677551 (OP)
Pokemon was never good

Sounds like something (You) wanted to say but figured the illusion of a larger consensus would make your shitty opinions less likely to be ignored.

>>714677551 (OP)
That doesn't look like Black and White

>>714677551 (OP)
The people that played RBY/GSC were at the age where Pokemon wasn't cool anymore and RS didn't let you trade across gens like you previously could. Plus it was missing features like a noticeable day/night cycle and animated sprites.

>>714679068
>That doesn't look like [the best game in the franchise]
Agreed

KANTOOOOOO

>>714679352
you people need to stop confusing "last good" with "best"

>>714677551 (OP)
*taps the sign*

>>714679458
the last good was USUM?

>>714679523
underage detected

>>714677551 (OP)
>Why do so many people say these games were the downfall of Pokemon
Because they dropped the series before it came out so they never experienced it until ORAS.

>>714679352
BW are without question the worst games in the series, second only to SwSh.

>>714679491
>"Black and White forced 156 new Pokemon without allowing access to any old favourites until the postgame"
>phrased as if it were a bad thing and not the best thing that they ever tried (but were forced to go backtrack due to autists crying
I hate the faggots who I share this series with so fucking much.

>>714678295
That would be gen 1 and 2
>ordinary gansters in a world where everyone has a sentient gun and every major city has one of the strongest trainers in the region
> everyone but their boss chooses pellet guns to fight with
>disband only to make the same mistakes 3 years later

After that it's gen 8
>OUR REGION IS RUNNING OUT OF POWER AND WE ONLY HAVE 1000 YEARS TO FIX IT!

>>714677551 (OP)
It was the beginning of pokemon staying stagnant. In a sense the peak of pokemon and the start of the downfall.

>>714679736
Eh, I'd say that goes to DP and by extension BDSP

>>714678729
quintessential /v/ comment

>>714679798
It was objectively a bad thing because the 156 Pokemon introduced were all shit.
If they had released 156 new Pokemon that were of the same quality as Gens 1&2, I would not have complained.
You are a mindless sheep that will consume anything. You probably thought SV were good.

>>714679798
Forcing us to use other shitty pokes isn't good. If Gen V had good pokes, no one would have complained. But they had faggot shit so people said bring back the real Pokemon.

>>714679958
>If they had released 156 new Pokemon that were of the same quality as Gens 1&2
According to you, they did

>>714680046
No, the Gen V Pokemon are all shitty looking actually.

>>714680013
/thread, also don't forget he ice cream and trash bag mons
>b-b-but le peak of le series
Yeah right, lmao

>>714680091
Yeah, just like gen 1 and 2.
Especially 2.

I started with Crystal and I was hyped as fuck for Ruby and Sapphire
>colors
>legendary pokemon are actually LEGENDARY, the molded the planet! that's so cool!

But I haven't played anything after
>legendary pokemon molded THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE, TIME, SPACE EVERYTHING
Alright you already lost me, powercreep as fuck and makes me less interested in later installments

>>714680013
Gen 5 designs were a breath of fresh air after like 90% of the gen 4 designs being fucking awful

>>714680167
>Satoshi Tajiri directed Pokemon was always bad akshully
2/10 troll

>>714677551 (OP)
It's when they started removing features and the most predatory monetization, requiring more than just the base games to catch 'em all for the first time. You can argue Emerald has the most content of any game, but in reality, it's just the grindiest. I have never managed to get all the symbols, whereas I got at least 3 more frontier brains in gen 4.

I WILL NEVER BE PSYOPPED INTO BECOMING A GEN V APOLOGIST

>>714680320
Oh you're taking the legacy is quality route? What next are you going to defend Inafune?

Come back when gen 1 has a design on par with something like Metagross or Darmanitan.

>>714680449
>Darmanitan
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Good one.

>>714680286
About the same tier of turd designs lmao

>>714680345
>whereas I got at least 3 more frontier brains in gen 4.
Gen 4 had 3 LESS than gen 3 and was considerably easier to finish. The Arcade was also the easiest to exploit facility to date since you could literally inflict status effects on your opponent before the fight even started.

>>714680529
Oh dear, his taste can't be salvaged. Time to throw him in the trash with gen 1 and 2.

>>714680449
>Darmanitan
kek
Metagross is cool but something like Kingler is also cool.

People that trash gen1 and 2 are so weird. Like how do they even get into pokemon?
>Yeah man I totally like that band but their first 2 albums were so shit

>>714680780
>Like how do they even get into pokemon?
We started with gen 1 and didn't let our nostalgia blind us.

>>714679736
>me when i lie

>>714680865
You're so fucking stupid it hurts

>>714680780
they're DS kids, got into it via Sinnoh.

>>714680865
Attributing everything to nostalgia is some major cope.

>>714680529
Darmanitan is one of the best Gen 5 designs, what are you smoking

>>714679491
>removed day/night
>removed days of week
>removed game corner
>removed dungeon puzzles
>removed old mons
>forced ugly new mons
>forced exp share
>forced roadblocks
>forced references to older games
>inaccessible areas
>6+ games across multiple consoles to complete the dex
Holy shit, I was considering revisiting this series but if this is real then forget it, I've already played Gold and Silver which is where it seems to have peaked.
Were the remakes any good at least?

>>714680993
Monkey
Round 2
Monkey + fire
Round 2
It looks worse than both Primeape and Infernape somehow. Manages to be both unoriginal and dumb looking

>>714680949
Everything? No.
The insane idea that gen 1 and 2 are somehow better than other games? Yes.
No one will debate that they set a good foundation but everything else is fairly bland and it's obvious that they didn't really know what direction to go in until gen 3.
You can't even use the limitations of the gameboy as an excuse since it isn't like other games didn't have more interesting monster designs.

>>714681136
Remakes are a bit slower but if you're the sort of guy that will take things slow and enjoy they are great. I still prefer Crystal but I wouldn't fault anyone liking HGSS.

>>714677551 (OP)
The last gen i ever played. It was ok, but after being able to go to kanto in the previous gen it felt like a step back

>>714681136
What game are you even referring to? Not one fits.

>>714681327
>they didn't really know what direction to go in until gen 3
The direction being what exactly?

Because they are retarded?
Those were the only games with full 60fps and it wa never repeated again

>>714681136
>Were the remakes any good at least?
Yes the remakes are even better than the originals.
SoulSilver is widely regarded as the best game in the series.

>>714681327
Gen 3 is shit though and a clear downgrade from Crystal.

>>714680449
>Darmanitan
I'll give you Metagross but come on the fuck on dude
If you seriously think that Darmanitan is anywhere close to the likes of Lapras, Rhydon, Scyther, Blastoise or any of the other Gen 1 greats, you are completely out of your mind.
There's no point trying to compete with the first two Gens, they are soul overload.

I still like gen 5 specially the region it comes in, but in a way its designs continued a downward spiral that gen 4 started, that's why some people will always hate those games. For my money they're the last Pokemon games worth paying any attention to.

>>714680449
>Come back when gen 1 has a design on par with something like Metagross or Darmanitan.
Scyther destroys. Compare him to a potato shaped lump like Salamence or a scolioses-ridden awkward flat lizard thing with flippers like Groudon, which are supposed to be cool ones. At least pick actually cool looking gen 3-5 pokes like Aggron, Abomasnow or Haxorus.

Only game that simultaneously has:
>Great story
>Great characters
>Good graphics
>Great music
>Good amount of content
>Good difficulty
>Proper sequel instead of full priced DLC
>Been recognized by his director as his "magnum opus"

>>714681608
>Lapras, Rhydon, Scyther, Blastoise
I can give you Lapras and Scyther, but Rhydon is the normie pick and Blastoise is dumb.

>>714681658
>good difficulty
lol, lmao
Have you beaten stadium 1&2 round 2 yet anon?

>>714681658
If only it had pokemon

>>714677551 (OP)
they look more like digimon than pokemon

Gen 3 was the beginning of the end, but Crystal was the beginning of the beginning of the end.

>>714677551 (OP)
Unsoulful pixel art and no day-night cycle.

>>714681658
>Great story
>Great characters
>Good graphics
Nope
>Great music
Yes, but every Gen up to 5 already had great music
>Good amount of content
>Good difficulty
Nope
>Proper sequel instead of full priced DLC
Sequel was a forced backtrack because they were stupid enough to force 156 shit designs with no access to old mons
>Been recognized by his director as his "magnum opus"
The artist is always wrong

The best design gen3 had is probably something like Sableye. Can be either cute or cool and the design reflects how its natural habitat and eating habits. It also has a cool typing which was novel back then.
Could easily fit in gen 2

>>714681658
>>Proper sequel instead of full priced DLC
This is something people kind of overlook about BW2. They are definitely the only "definitive edition" games where they put in a modicum of effort. By virtue of having so many new locations and shifting several characters around by continuing their character arcs, on top of all the new ones, it kind of wins against every other one, which, at worst are kind of like patch fixes like Platinum was. The one terrible thing about it was still coming in two different releases, that was very scummy and unneccessary.

>>714681918
>Nope
No argument, thanks for concession

>>714681991
No response to other posts? Thanks for your concession.

>>714681658
>good graphics
>Gen V
now there's a laugh

>>714681983
>The one terrible thing about it was still coming in two different releases, that was very scummy and unneccessary.
I agree with this, when GF made USUM the only thing that they kept from BW2 was this, so they sold the same game 4 times

>>714681730
>one of the most popular Pokemon of all time is le dumb because I say so
>Pokemon that is hidden in a safari zone halfway through the game and doesn't evolve until level 42 a 'normie pick'
You are completely delusional. But you're a Unova fan so makes sense lmao.

>>714681470
>and a clear downgrade from Crystal.
The fact that you can't even say how only proves the point.
I'm wiling to bet you're just going to say something like
>it had day and night!
Ignoring the downsides of that mechanic though.

>>714677817
i'm a hoennbabby and i only like johto and hoenn, everything else is trash

>>714682040
>No response
BW2 competes with HGSS for the best mainline game, i don't think there's more to add

>>714677551 (OP)
I'm pretty sure "so many people" aren't saying that, the majority of people are normies who aren't that well informed about the state of the franchise and its games/other media at any given time, they just jumped off the Pokemania train around the 2001-2002 point, which led to Ruby/Sapphire being less popular as a result, rather than R/S themselves being the explanation for the decline.

>>714681952
Yeah, it's a great example of an ambiguous monster, instead of "inanimate object with a face", or "literally an animal but with something funny on its tail", or worst of all, "anthro holding an object".

>>714677551 (OP)
I dont think thats a common opinion. Pokemania ended with gen 2, most people never played these games.

>>714682078
Not that anon but I think on a DS screen they look pretty good, not to mention run faster than Gen 4. Plus, unless Sinnoh already had some and I'm forgetting, it was the one gen where they made sprite sheet-based poses for the characters in-game (pic related), I've always really appreciated that, more romhacks should go to this level of detail.

>>714682078
?

>>714682226
The worst are the "animal with a mustache" designs. Which are derived from the all encompassing "animal but with a human job" characteristic later designs suffer from.

>>714679798
The problem with gen 5 is that it exists to solve an imaginary problem that it invented, an in the process of providing its supposed solution it ended up proving itsself wrong.
>lets get rid of magnemite and magneton (why)
>people are tired of magnemite and magneton (they arent)
>what do we do instead (people still want magnemite and magneton)
>lets make klink and klang (this is just magnetite and magneton but worse)
And then repeat for like 20-30 other mons

Gen 5 is the raw essence of woke redesign, removed from its birthplace of post-feminism and distilled down to the very essence of raw "We should give gamers what they dont want, but what I wanted them to want instead".

>>714677551 (OP)
>barebones content other than contests
>no one liked contests
>double battles hardly ever used. The overworld is much emptier than Emerald's
>designs were controversial among critics much like with Wind Waker
>the gen 3 teaser movie flopped
>>>dexcut half the pokemon
Sure, pokemania was waning during the second half of gen 2, but RS was the dagger that not only brought the decisive end of the era, but also kickstarted the whole, "It's cool to hate on Pokemon" phase that lasted all the way until the release of XY. The kids that played RBY and GSC had nothing to gain from playing the new games that cut their favorites.

>>714682434
>>714682482
>upscaled sprite on a 3d enviroment
Looks like fucking trash, all that jagged edges are a fucking pain in the ass to look at

>thread asking about Gen 3
>IMMEDIATELY flooded by aggressive Gen 5 fans flinging their shit around and demanding that they be recognised as 'peak'
>start crying when they realise they're on /v/ where no-one gives a fuck about them
Why does this ALWAYS happen? Why can't they just say on their containment board? >>/vp/

>>714682097
>when GF made USUM the only thing that they kept from BW2 was this, so they sold the same game 4 times
Is USUM the biggest grift of the franchise? Full price for a hard mode release that made the story worse and didn't finish the clearly unfinished region. They didn't even fix the railroading and tutorial hell in the slightest, Gen 7 was so close to being good, but in just ended up being the Skyward Sword of the Pokemon series.

>>714682574
it's okay to be wrong

>>714682591
Unovabortion zoomers think their baby's first pokemon is the best when they didn't played previous gens.

>>714682515
>people are tired of magnemite and magneton (they arent)
I was so fucking sick of geodudes and machops and zubats after gen 4. But I can understand that if you're autistic and eat macaroni and cheese and chicken tendies for every meal that you would be upset that they took away your magnemite.

>>714682680
Nah you just have shit taste, having a 3d capable console and making trash worse than the stadium games is not forgivable

>>714682591
nobody mentioned unova until >>714679068

>>714682574
That's just how DS Pokemon looked. Most DS and PSX 3D games did have that jagged edged, triangle-shifty look to them, for that matter. I personally don't hate that aesthetic quirk, I'll take it over the drab, choppy and swamp-like looking Unreal Engine 3 games that were on consoles at the same time.

>>714682808
>machops
What did those do lmao. The designs were solid, you were just mad that they made sense to be in a cave. Maybe instead of re-inventing "bat pokemon" and "boulder pokemon" they should think of something cool to put in a cave?
Other anon was right.

>>714677551 (OP)
They removed a bunch of features, Emerald itself is fine but Ruby/Sapphire are downgrades that started the trend of new Pokemon releases being lazy

>>714682893
The very first reply insulted Gen 1, and I didn't see genwunners have an autistic meltdown like you're having right now.

>>714682808
>I was so fucking sick of geodudes and machops and zubats after gen 4.
This is simply a gen 4 diversity problem, they had some 700 pokemon to fill encounter lists with and they chose to make a region where behind every blade of grass is a geodude.

>>714682591
denial - unova has always been considered the turning point where the games started to become shit, but because they grew up with the games, it's a rude awakening to realise that they were bad games all along and it was all just nostalgia, so they reject this reality and double down with their fingers in their ears screaming LALALALALA i cant hear you LALALALALALALALA

>>714682840
> 3d capable console
2.5D > whatever this is.

>>714682591
>scroll up and read the thread
>see that the posts shitting on gen 5 came first >>714679068 >>714679491 and >>714679736
This is the part where I call you out for being a genwarring nigger. idgaf about the whole hoenn vs unova bullshit. I'm just here to discuss the fall of pokemania in 2001-2002.

>>714683020
because gen 1 is actually bad.

>>714683072
>they were bad because... THEY JUST WERE OK?

>>714683263
Then why did Gen 5 try so fucking hard to be a knockoff of it?

>>714678120
>>714679848
Was Gen 1 & 2 particularly silly though? I dont feel like there was much story in Gen 1 from memory.
>Some gangsters trying to start shit in Mt Moon
>Robbed someone house
>Eventually find their hideout in the game corner of Celadon (Ofc, organised crime linked to gambling)
>Stop them trying to start shit in Lavender town because they murdered cubones mother
>Foil their hostrile take over of Silph Co in Saffron
>Dont remember much after that
>Beat down Giovanni in Viridian after its revealed that he is somehow the gym leader don't remember why
>Disband them

Felt more like it was just there in the background as you went on the true story, which was getting the gym badges and taking on the Elite Four.
Which is weird because that wasn't what Oak asked you to do at the start of the game, completing the Pokedex is tertiary compared to that

>>714682909
Nigger you're posting a psx game wich have turd for 3d capabilities, n64 games had shitload of better, finer details and soul

>>714683178
>very first post insults Kanto
>no-one cares

>post insulting Unova
>one hundred replies screeching and making big lists like this dipshit >>714681658

>>714683392
gen 5 fixed gen 1, foongus makes sense, voltorb doesn't.

>>714683178
Fall of Pokemania was Gen 3. Gen 2 did something like 30 million sales.

>>714677551 (OP)
Because it doesn't have heckin' KANTOOOO an is therefore BAD.
Why can't I get my Charizard? Every time Charizard isn't in a pokemon game everyone should be saying "Where is Charizard?"

>>714680164
trubbish/garbodor > grimer/muk

>>714677817
I'm a genwunner and I think the games fell apart for me after x/y. I have problems with each gen but at the same time each gen until really five adds something major that I feel was needed. Gen 2 with the special split and items, gen 3 with abilities, and gen 4 splitting move types. Losing the world tournament thing felt like a massive step backwards, and while I honestly liked Megas' a lot, X/Y is where the dialog cutscene focus started to start. Still I did try sun and moon, but they doubled down on cutscene stuff and I dropped the series since.

>>714682808
> Iwas so fucking sick of geodudes and machops and zubats after gen 4.
Yeah I'm so happy Unova replaced them with Geodude but shit, Machop but shit, and Zubat but shit.

>>714683434
>posting a psx game wich have turd for 3d capabilities
As was the DS, which is what I'm saying, for the system it's on, it's perfectly fine.

>soul
I don't dislike Pokemon Stadium in any way and I even admire Itoh-san for his 3d modeling work on that game, must have been a boatload of work, but if you think that game comes a mile fucking close to the style Megaman Legends accomplished on a 32 bit system, I simply cannot trust your taste, good day sir.

>>714683853
this but unironically

>>714683853
99% of unova replacements were better desu

>>714683556
Many believe that pokemania ended with Pokemon The Movie 3. A lot of kids tuned out during Johto Journeys, especially when Ash let Charizard go, and only went to see the movie because he came back for it. This steep drop in vieweship was only made worse with Crystal's low sales, being one of the lowest selling games in the entire series.

>>714677853
Gen IV and V were steps up mechanically. Its Gen VI where things started to get astronomically dumbed down.

>>714677551 (OP)
idiots might
gen 6 set the stage for the downfall, though the games remained serviceable
gen 7 had some advantages like totem battles being challenging but the handholdyness was cranked way high and it was also the first time gamefreak's utter disdain for performance came to light
gen 8 was the point of no return reasons you all know

what's really fucked to me is that, even though the games still sell well cause of course, I've noticed internet discussion of pokemon has shrunk a lot
It's happened outside of here too, but like /vp/ has shrunk shockingly low in posts, lower than /jp/, /pw/, even fucking /x/.
I think dexit and the general dogshitness of newer pokemon entries killed it for a lot of people. I know I stopped going to /vp/ at that time and going back the whole board seems way different and just a collection of generals like ships passing in the night

>>714683423
>Felt more like it was just there in the background
As it should

>>714682515
>The problem with gen 5 is that it exists to solve an imaginary problem
Nah, pokemon games were getting stale and repetitive by gen 4 especially with gen 4 basically rehashing gen 3's plot. They needed something completely fresh and new and gen 5 delivered.

>>714683712
>doubled down on cutscene stuff and I dropped the series since
Good decision. The one good idea Sun/Moon had were the ride Pokemon and they were dropped like a sack of bricks for the ugliest bike ever next gen. The downward spiral of the series is so sad to witness.

>>714683705
In your dreams

>>714683863
>As was the DS
No shit but even Megaman Legends had proper 3d models, those turds sprites on 3d space look awful, if game freak was compenent enough they would have made something really soulful instead of cheaping out with sprites
No surprise they always outsource their best 3d games to other devs.

>>714683556
>Gen 2 did something like 30 million sales.
Gen 2 started off strong but by Crystal the sales were already at post pokemania levels. The games and anime just being rehashes didn't help one bit.

>>714677551 (OP)
Pokemania died around this time and there was a subtle shift in how the games were handled. You can also argue that gen 2 established a precedent for being connected to the previous region so the fact that Hoenn being completely standalone was a disappointment.

>>714681658
lol pic unrelated
shittiest designs in the franchise
ugly ass distorted sprites in the overworld and battles
same dogshit story as any other pokemon game
jewed you 2x as hard with 4 shit games instead of 3

>>714683712
X/y is where it felt like the new additions were gimmicks

>>714684000
they’re undeniably uglier 99% of the time. as if anyone who isn’t a mutt zoomer likes audino and swoobat over crobat or blissey

>>714684416
It mostly does. But I can't hate Mega evolutions for turning mons that I liked that weren't really good in being very usabled, like Mawile for me Not that it matters for the main story, I always brute forced them with your single starter, a tradition started yellow

>>714683442
>"B-But someone shat on Kanto firs-"
Put those goal posts down you filthy rat. You claimed the UIDF showed up first.

>>714684235
Nobody bought Crystal because they already had Gold/Silver
>But Yellow
It's fucking PIKACHU

I find it funny how much of a sacred cow gen V has become
I remember it having big fans early on (B2W2 of course), and there was always a debate between which of HGSS or Pt or B2W2 were the gold standard.
But I swear the whole discussion changed once SwSh dexit happened and a million and 1 Gen V super fans came out of fucking nowhere to proclaim it as the one true pokemon game.
I guess it's partially a comeback from fans of the games getting dunked on hard early on as the first pokemon games with serious push back and the fans getting old enough to be terminally online and make essays (the Sonic fandom has a very similar phenomenon with it's 3d 00's games, particularly Unleashed)
I now see more people tout B2W2 as the best when HGSS was solidly ahead for years. It's an interesting development even if disagree.
I still say 5 had a lot of rough designs and I generally prefer even gen 6's design by large. I will say gen 4 was already moving towards gen 5's weird design choices with stuff like magmortar and lickilicky

>>714684515
crobat > swoobat > golbat
are there people who unironically prefer chansey?

>>714684624
Funny enough I bought both yellow and crystal because I picked up the series late, and didn't get gold/silver or red/blue when they came out.

>>714684707
You have to eat the eggs anon

>Ash raplaced his dragon with a tiny hedgehog
Charicific Valley killed pokemania

>>714679798
It is bad. You see the same ugly ass Monkey trio/Unfezant/Patrat spammed by trainers until the end of the game.
80% of the designs, from the starters to the legends, are hideous.
The 5 or 6 salvageable lines in that dogshit region don’t evolve until after the Elite 4.
BW is hot steaming dogshit

>>714684707
>swoobat > golbat
Shit taste. Swoobat looks ugly
>are there people who unironically prefer chansey?
Chansey is the most popular mon in its own line

>>714684843
>80% of the designs, from the starters to the legends, are hideous.

Golurk, Volcarona, Zoroark, Fossils, Scolipede, Ferrothorn, Galvantula, Crustle, Zebstrika, Darmanitan, Reuniclous, Chandelure, Lilligant, Cofagrigus, Sawsbuck, Eelektross, Excadrill, Krookodile

>>714684707
kek fucking delusional unovamutt

>>714677551 (OP)
I have never heard that. The fans first failed the franchise by not buying Black and White, then Gamefreak failed the fans by thinking nothing matters and made X and Y. Less new Pokemon, rehashing gimmicks like Megas on old Pokemon, and gutting post games. Then the souless 3d model animations never got worked on, some did generations later but most not, Dexit happened, and at the same time Gamefreak don't hire enough people to work on the tiny ass project cycle deadlines they are locked into because they have to push anime and trading cards out the door.
Actually the real first sin was making Red and Green two seperate games. If you just made all pokemon accesible and still did forced choice once-per-file shit like the starters or fossils you could still encourage trading without making it so jewish and require a 2nd game to complete the first.

There is a direct correlation between Pokemon going to shit and the existence of fairy types.

>>714685035
thanks for writing out a list of dogshit designs to save me the trouble

>>714684402
but enough about cucklos

>>714684127
only literal fujo faggot trannies care about pokemon plots. gen v is complete filler and could be erased right now and literally nothing worthwhile would be lost

>>714685226
Gen 5 is the only plot worth reading (maybe SM too)

>>714685035
>shitcario but black
>a fucking zebra
>a fucking gay deer
yawn

>>714684843
>BW is hot steaming dogshit
Way to drop a wrong opinion like that in the end and make me read all that shit. O feel hustled.

>>714685071
>The fans first failed the franchise by not buying [low quality game]
I love this cope

>>714685035
>Volcarona
I'm sick and tired of people riding bug sandalphon's dick. The design isn't even good. You faggots just like it because it's le epik OP bug that matchup fishes people

>>714685386
TRVKE

>>714685386
It's in my top 6. It's genuinely cool af.
Also it's the ace of the only well written champion

>>714682591
blacked and shite is when they started adding DEI so mutts have a special attachement to Gen 5

>>714681658
>Only game that simultaneously has:
>>Great story
Stopped reading there. Get better bait.

>>714685629
that was gen 4

>>714677551 (OP)
Because they're retarded and many probably weren't even alive back then.

>>714684192
>soulful
Eh I would argue otherwise, specially with how Gen 6 and the game you posted turned out. I personally would take Pokemon DS or better, something like Radiant Historia over games that ended up being mediocre footnotes on their series history like Golden Sun 3 or DQ9. You can argue it looks bad till the cows come home but I really don't think the use of 3D helped those games age or play any better. Plus I hate to play this tired old card but I do agree, that, without recolored enemies and 400+ monsters, cramming all that, plus attack+hurt+fainting animations on a DS cartridge was an absurd undertaking.

pokemon fans complaining about pokemon the games are fine

>>714685286
nah its gay and I clocked out when the one stupid bitch started having literal daddy issues with cringe dialogue. shit games, shit story. simple as

>>714685680
You first.

>>714685286
>>714685226
Gen 5 literally had everything but a good ending. They never answered the question they posed the entire time, is it right to be a pokemon trainer and to own pokemon even if you are a good soul and see them as friends, allies, partners? BW1 sidestepped answering this question by making Ghestis admit he was false flagging, and then walked back that notion too by keeping N pure, so the biggest person who posed the query was never flawed or disingenuous with the question to begin with, making the posed question still valid.
The only answer I'll accept is the intuitive but undiscussed answer of the fact that N still kept his Pokemon, his friends, and couldn't break free cold turkey from owning Pokemon. Sure you can say they are mutual friends, but isn't that the same case with your starter Pokemon or 90% of all trainers in the games and anime?

>>714685504
holy shit volcarona is leon's ace? I could have sworn it was charizard

https://pokemonbbs.com/sp/post/read.cgi?no=2361863&l=1-
>even nips mock Gen 5’s trash story
kek

>>714685819
*kicks munna*

>>714685869
>Gen 5 literally had everything but a good ending
and graphics that weren't an eyesore
and difficulty
and any exploration
and all the features they lazily cut from gen 4 that gen 6 added back

>>714685504
Leon uses Charizard, retard

>>714685962
>They also make games for adults
...like what?

>>714685869
Not every story needs a neat ending. Ambiguity can be the whole point, just look at EoE

>>714685869
gen 5 had absolutely nothing but shitty clones of better pokemon, a straight line map, and a homosexual cult

>>714685972
>and all the features they lazily cut from gen 4 that gen 6 added back
Where are funfest missions in XY?

>>714685972
Yeah I loved the Kalos Battle Frontier

It's funny how these threads always just devolve into unova shills desperately trying to convince people that their games aren't full of the exact same slop they perpetually bitch about in nupokemon games

>>714685962
They’re right, its narrative is not anything special. Unovaniggers saying it’s the “only story worth reading” is fucking embarrassing.

>>714685962
BW’s got nothing to envy from something like FF4. It’s simple, sure, there’s better stuff out there, but it’s still solid

>>714685972
>and graphics that weren't an eyesore
>and difficulty
>and any exploration
I mean, it had all of that and then some.
>and all the features they lazily cut from gen 4
Like?
>that gen 6 added back
Gen 6 didn't add anything back. That was half of the problem of the gen.

>>714686226
normal people: "this is why i liked gen 5"
unovahaters: 300+ replies seething

>>714677551 (OP)
it was the first generation to remove pokemon

it was the first generation to remove locations

if you followed pokemon from gen 1 to gen 2, your expectations for pokemon sequels were set. You thought that every pokemon sequel would add new pokemon. You thought they would add new locations. That's what gen 2 did after all.

You had kanto, but for gen 2, on top of that they added johto. You had the original 151 pokemon, but on top of that they added 100 new pokemon.

If you liked pokemon, you thought that this was how it was going to be. More places to explore. More pokemon. Every game was going to be bigger and better and MORE.

Gen 3 betrayed pokemon fans. If you bought ruby or sapphire, you would have had a very nasty shock when you realised they removed 150 pokemon. If that wasn't bad enough, they didn't even add enough new pokemon to make up for the ones they removed - in total there were only 178 pokemon you could get. From gen 2, we just went backwards.

And so much for the expanding world. Kanto DELETED. Johto DELETED. Were you looking forward to how these places changed over time, the way you got to see how Kanto changed in gen 2? Did you like the idea of environmental storytelling, where you would get to see these places grow and evolve through observation and exploration with each new title? Well so much for that shit, it's all GONE

gen 3 was where gamefreak gave up. They no longer cared to make pokemon good, they just put some half-assed garbage out and told people to suck it if they wanted pokemon to be anything more than a cash grab

>>714677551 (OP)
It was a convenient drop-off point for them. There was the standard console generation shift that culled lots of players who didn't want to buy a GBA, I even knew people who played gen III but not after that because they wouldn't buy a DS.
Also the much bigger issue, most people lost interest in the series somewhere during gen II. Pokémania was on the downturn by the Orange Islands and was in definite decline when the Johto anime started airing. Though that all depends on where you live and your individual social groups, etc.
There's even some people who had already dropped the series before gen I ended, but still mark Crystal as the last game. This is because it's hard to discredit gen II as a gen I fan. It would make you a hypocrite to say you hate all Johtomons when you were fine with Ho-Oh in the first episode, Donphan in the first movie, Misty's Togepi, and so on. I don't think we even started using the term genwunner until Black and White or so, before then they were called nostalgiafags. They used to love the first two gens and it was the new gen, RSE, that they didn't like. Then Diamond and Pearl released and it was the new gen"s" they hated. When BW was out their first two gens were in the minority. I think the "real" nostalgiafags were dead by then. They used to be edgy teenagers in 2007 with some shitty ass shounen anime pfp, then they got replaced by normalfag adults who aren't the same bitter cunts, more like they just don't remember anything beyond the 151 they saw as kids.

>>714677551 (OP)
when they came out a lot of fans found them disappointing
much smaller games, essentially no postgame and removed a lot of features gen 2 brought

>>714686327
>I mean, it had all of that
no it didn't

>Like?
secret bases
contests
ribbons
berry farming
pokeradar
old rod and good rod
a useful bottom screen

>Gen 6 didn't add anything back
secret bases
contests
ribbons
berry farming
pokeradar
old rod and good rod

>>714683531
gen 5 was mostly much uglier powercrept versions

>>714686327
>>and all the features they lazily cut from gen 4
>Like?
inb4 she mentions berry farming, she's lying.

For all that I hate that Gen 3 started the playerwank that made you the chosen one meant to save the world from calamity, I have to admit that Team Magma and Team Aqua were the most aesthetic of all the villain orgs.

>>714686585
picrel are oras' redesigns tho, do you mean the originals as well?

There is one moment that most people can agree on to be the downfall of pokemon, and it was during the ORAS era.

>>714685972
>and graphics that weren't an eyesore
Works on my machine. Moving sprites and 2.5d overworld was unadulterated soul
>and difficulty
Bro you are in the wrong franchise. Difficulty comes in pvp. I will not defend the b2w2 difficulty settings because of how you aquire them being so ass backwards.
>and any exploration
Oh like some underground ruins inaccesible till late game that don't contain any legends but still can be cleared and explored?
>and all the features they lazily cut from gen 4 that gen 6 added back
Only thing gen 4 did that should have been kept was physical/special split and customizable pokeballs, and those balls didnt come back for anything bar bdsp. The CGear was the coolest multiplayer interface menu in the entire franchise and would be awesome if restored. I did like the Underground and Poketech in gen 4 but not enough to clamour for their return.

>>714685504
>baaah im a faggot who gets cucked in my own league
lmao so well written

>>714686658
The original was good, but the remake improved on it.

Reminder that Haxorus is literally not a pokemon. Sugimori said it himself

>>714686446
>Also the much bigger issue, most people lost interest in the series somewhere during gen II. Pokémania was on the downturn by the Orange Islands and was in definite decline when the Johto anime started airing. Though that all depends on where you live and your individual social groups, etc.
An amazingly astute point that I think the thread, like myself, would neglect if you didn't bring it up. Props.

>>714686778
It was meant to be a Sinnoh mon, does this mean Sinnoh mons aren't real pokemon?

>>714686675
>Works on my machine
no, you just have low standards

>Bro you are in the wrong franchise
evidently not because there are games in the franchise that have reasonable difficulty unlike gen 5

>Oh like some underground ruins inaccesible till late game that don't contain any legends but still can be cleared and explored?
no I mean like the entire fucking game being full of shitty roadblocks and the region being designed as a fucking line

>The CGear was the coolest multiplayer interface menu in the entire franchise
statements like this are what make it obvious you're a disingenuous unova shill.

>>714686840
There are bad designs that get rejected all the time. Haxorus was one.

>>714686443
The idea that some people were genuinely waiting for yet another game where they could catch mostly the same shit and spend 66% of the game wandering through places they'd already been is sobering. Reminds me that some people were retards with shit taste even 25 years ago.

>>714686563
what is this? who the hell gives out a pomeg

>>714686585
Something that amuses me about ORAS is how Archie and Maxie's redesigns ended up being the opposite of what the Pokemon Special manga redesigned them into

>Pokesp Archie : sophisticated TV executive
>ORAS Archie : salty seadog
>Pokesp Maxie : drunken pagan cult hippie
>Oras Maxie : nerd

The downfall came with B/W.
Pokemon D/P got released in 2006, the Sinnoh era was as well known and established as Hoenn because of how close they were to each other. Pokemon B/W only released in 2010. We got Platinum in 2008 and we got HG/SS in 2009 but that was a remake. Platinum was seen as just another version, a big improvement but still, almost the same game.

This is why people went away from Pokemon, even if there is still a lot of people buying the games and there's pokemon adults that buy the cards and merchandise but for me, the peak of Pokemon was 2006.

>>714677551 (OP)
They're a mixed bag. The gameplay was a big improvement but it's where the art style and designs started to go downhill, which is arguably the most important aspect of the franchise.

>>714679491
I’m tired of pretending that forced Exp share isn’t fundamentally good game design
Have you played HG/SS where all the mobs are 10 levels below trainers and getting exp is pain

>>714684707
Chanaey’s way better. Audino looks retarded

>>714677817
Gen One boomer here, gen 3 was a good fresh start and I remember being upset that gen 4 wasnt a contination of gen 3 like how Johto was for Kanto.

The actual downfall though was Sword and Shield. Every gen before that had some level of redeeming qualities. Even sun and moon added some stuff like not needing HM slaves any more and the story was beefed up a little. But sword and shield? That piece of shit has zero redeeming features. It literally took away exploration from a monster collectathon exploration game. That was my last Pokemon game, and I onky got it at all because I swore to myself that I would use a farfetch'd evolution if it ever happened due to personal circumstance of me being a retarded child and thinking that farfetch'd would evolve back in the day.

>>714678672
>My only major gripes with Gen. 3 are the games looked too bright
Blame the GBA's lack of backlight. Same reason the Metroid games on it are so bright and have big outlines on every platform.

>>714686548
>secret bases
>contests
>ribbons
>berry farming
>pokeradar
>old rod and good rod
>a useful bottom screen
So a bunch of things that gen 4 removed?

>>714687089
>the enemies are too low level to level up at a good rate
>I know, let's give the player 3x experience!
... there's a simpler solution to this problem.

>>714686994
yes, we should praise gamefreak for making a smaller game with less shit in it. In fact, it would have been even better if ruby and sapphire had removed all the old pokemon, and removed all the old mechanics. Ideally they would remove as much as possible, maybe one day we can finally get to the holy grail where there's a pokemon game where there's only one pokemon to catch, and one patch of grass to catch it in

>>714686548
>>Gen 6 didn't add anything back
>secret bases
>contests
Why are you lying? XY didn't have any of these.

Regardless all of these are gimmicks. And half of them didn't need to exist.

>>714677551 (OP)
it saved the franchise after johto nearly killed it.

>>714687195
Enemies should be higher level and all Pokemon in the party should get exp, that said in both Swsh and SV I was about the same level as the final bossed

>>714686038
I fuck with open ended conclusions, but when you have a straight up dichotomy posed that no middleground exists in, I feel like I either deserve to have it answered or at least elaborated on that a grey area is now being entertained. N clearly realized the situation was more nuanced because he kept his friends, but the entire time he and Plasma were preaching how there can be no middleground. That rigidity is what caused you, the player, to recognize the cognative dissonence of the enforcing class breaking their own rules in an effort to enact their will. Amimal Farm type shit.
So if N learned of that grey area I expect that discussion to be had. I can concede "show, don't tell" is appearant when he comes back in the sequel but that game didn't ask the question like BW1 did.
>>714686226
>its funny when I say something disagreeable I get lots of people disagreeing with me.
Joggin the noggin there.

>>714686840
A mon that was rejected is not a mon.

>It's a Yawnfag thread
Ruby and Sapphire are shit but the moment
>Berry farming
Is mentioned, the thread might as well be over

Diamond and Pearl were the worst, Ruby and Sapphire were kino.

>>714687276
>XY didn't have any of these
The post says gen 6. Not XY.

>l-l-less features is good, actually
Congrats you’re using the exact same arguments nugen shills use.

>>714687229
We should be happy they had the good sense not to make their game 1/3 "campaign" and 2/3 "postgame". Johto's level curve was bad enough with regular appearances from level 40+ enemies apparently being reserved for Kanto, did you want Hoenn to be exclusively level 20 and below?

>>714687382
Yawnfag is based for starting genwar threads. Unovaborts need to learn their place.

>>714686906
>evidently not because there are games in the franchise that have reasonable difficulty unlike gen 5
Like what? I'll give you the Genius Sonority games because those were made by different people but are still Pokemon.
>the entire fucking game being full of shitty roadblocks and the region being designed as a fucking line
>forgets "OOH I DIDNT HAVE MY COFFEE TODAY!"
again, its been that way since day 1.
Last reply you'll get from me.

>>714684069
>Infinite TMs
>Linear map
>Revamped EXP system
Sure, it's VI where things started to get dumbed down, not V.

>>714677551 (OP)
Gameplay wise is the peak of the serie and the ones that set the tone of franchise while in gen 1 and 2 they were still experimenting

>>714687089
>Have you played HG/SS where all the mobs are 10 levels below trainers and getting exp is pain
This only happens if you miss all the trainers in Union Cave, in-between Whirl Islands, Route 34 etc. Unfortunately a lot of people (including you) make this mistake because they rush through the game and don't take the time to explore every corner of the region and thus the 'bad level curve' myth is born. My team are always 36-40 by the time I get to the E4 in GSC and HGSS.

>>714687304
Pro nuzlocker!?
I kneel.

First four gens were good. Black and White is where the creativity started dropping, the designs dropped, the writing aswell

>>714687089
I dont want my Geodude getting SpA EVs when I train my Gastly on Abras.

>>714687482
>The post says gen 6. Not XY.
Then that would mean gen 4 removed bases, contests, berry farming, the pokeradar and a useful bottom screen since HGSS didn't have them.
I don't remember if they had ribbons either.

>>714687304
>worshipping someone who looks like this
How are you not embarrassed by this? Lmao

>>714686548
>>714686327
>>714687276
I like gen 5 but the fishing rod thing was stupid (the only one worth fussing over the loss of from these lists) only because they cornered themselves by not making enough water types. They should have brought it back in BW2 but they didn't and it drives me insane. Why didn't they?

>>714687482
>The post says gen 6. Not XY.
That's pretty weasely. Gen 4 deserves to be shat on for turning headbutting trees into that terrible honey dogshit, even if they corrected it in HGSS.

>>714687497
the numbers are arbitrary. maximalism means more content is good, "campaign" versus "postgame" doesn't mean shit, what matters is how much stuff there is

>>714687662
It's going to be overleveled anyway, so who cares about EVs.

>>714684707
Gr b8 m8, I r8 8/8

>>714687662
Holy shit I forgot how Gen 3 dropped the ball with 510 max EVs without reworking how you gain EVs

>>714687690
>Then that would mean gen 4 removed bases, contests, berry farming, the pokeradar and a useful bottom screen since HGSS didn't have them
No, because they exist in gen 4. They don’t exist in gen 5.

>>714687532
>I'll give you the Genius Sonority games because those were made by different people but are still Pokemon.
He's going to say gen 4 because it filtered him.

>>714685629
TRVKE

>>714687351
Agreed. I always found BW2 kinda vague, which sucks cause it had the potential to wrap things up way better. BW2 basically ends the question with these N quotes " The world that you desire for Pokémon and humans... I look forward to seeing how full of love that world is."
"Someday… Pokémon and humans will be bound together without Poké Balls. They will simply trust and help one another. Make that kind of world"
" "I'm here though…"
"I've been worried about the people who believed in me… But it seems they know what they can do for Pokémon in their own ways."
"Compared to them… What was I doing? What I really should have done was tell people how Pokémon feel…! The legendary Dragon-type Pokémon knew that. It has lived long and known many people. It knew humans and Pokémon have lived and will live together. It knew that in this relationship, humans' actions have an enormous impact on Pokémon. That's why it helps the one who searches for the idealB/truthW… the one who opens the way to the future.""

>>714687662
you’re going to get random EVs if you’re playing the campaign anyway, dumbfuck

>>714687782
>because they exist in gen 4
So then ORAS being a gen 3 remake means gen 6 didn't bring them back.
You can't have it both ways, either gen 6 didn't have them or gen 4 removed them.

>>714687662
In SV you can trade Pokémon to you box at anytime, for all non competitive scenarios your EVs don’t really matter except for end game stuff

>>714678296
Yes

>>714687719
>That's pretty weasely.
It's Yawnfag. The dude is known to insist you can only judge BW+BW2 as a unit if you judge XY+ORAS as a unit, even though one is sensible and one is total nonsense.

>>714677551 (OP)
Because it was

>>714687782
>They don’t exist in gen 5.
They don't exist in HGSS which is not only a gen 4 game but the last gen 4 game.
It's also worth noting that Platinum was the game that first removed the game corner.

*would be the best pokemon games since gen 1 if not for the fact that they're still obvious tech demos*

>>714687830
what teh fuck

>>714687830
This image is just awful, parents who force their childhood onto their kids are the worst
Unova/Gen 5 fans are a cult

>>714685629
Low IQ take

>>714687921
>>714687896
You say they don't matter but a level 60 Glimmora with 180SpA EVs works a lot different than one with 20. Speed especially is a clean make or break bar.

>>714687195
the solution is that level 50 at endgame is good enough and games should stop putting level evolutions well beyond the 30s.

>>714687830
Disgraceful, waiting for borts to defend this somehow

>>714688023
It could've been any game and yet...
Why are unovafags like this?

>>714688016
Why are they motorcycles?

>>714687830
that’s how i imagine every unovamutt to look

>>714688148
Nobody with an IQ higher than 70 would defend this.

>>714687830
why are they like this?

Crazy how the taste varies between VP and v , a lot more anons here hate Gen v( which is correct). I personally hate it too and I don't care what region anyone prefers as long as it's not that one at the very top of their list.

>>714687556
>Pokemon is almost 30 years
>Not a single game ever managed to capture the vibe of that image there, just being in a world full of Pokemon
I can't be the only one wanting a game like that, why won't they do it?

>>714687532
>Like what?
Gen 7.

>again, its been that way since day 1
Where did gen 1 spam 10 different shitty npc roadblocks?

>>714687497
>badges 9-16 are postgame
the postgame in gen 2 is mount silver

>>714688016
Is this worth picking up on switch 2?

>>714688110
>get to end of game
>use EV reset berries or catch new Glimorra
It really doesn’t matter

>>714687838
Whao I had no idea subtle differences in his speech were made between the two games. That's a neat little thing

>>714688171
>It could've been any game
I don't think many genwunners are having kids, for obvious reasons.

>>714681892
>and no day-night cycle.
Night and Day cycle was ass only a brain dead nigger would like having to wait 10 hours or cheat (defeating the purpose of even having the feature in the first place) to catch certain pokemon.

>>714688295
> a lot more anons here hate Gen v
source: my ass

>>714688015
>kangaroos exist on earth
>”N-NO THEY DONT BECAUSE KANGAROOS DON’T EXIST IN ANTARCTICA”
this is how retarded you sound, unovashill.

> It's also worth noting that Platinum was the game that first removed the game corner.
The game corner still exists in Platinum. Gen 5 removed it entirely.

>>714688292

>>714677817
I started with R/B and Sun/Moon was the downfall for me.

Every genwar /vp/ thread is pic related, except the monkeys are newfags and tourists vs local spergs and the dudes betting on them are the local population that's had those discussions a billion times humoring local lolcows and autists with memes and low effort (You)s

>>714688336
>you can't go through viridian city till I've had my coffee
>you can't go to the pokemon league without badges
>you can't go to mt moon without getting your first badge
>you can't enter this house, there's a police investigation
>you can't go on the ss anne without a ticket
>you can't go into saffron city until I've had a drink (x4)
>you can't go on this road until you own a bike
>you can't go into this skyscraper until I've fallen asleep
that's 11

>>714679848
>>OUR REGION IS RUNNING OUT OF POWER AND WE ONLY HAVE 1000 YEARS TO FIX IT!
Why the hell didn't they just make that the energy crisis was gonna happen like... five years down at least? THAT would have made more sense.

>>714688016
You niggers say this for nearly every IP that goes open world.

>>714677551 (OP)
Gen III to gen V is a completely different feeling than gen I/II or gen VI onwards.

>>714688613
>The game corner still exists in Platinum. Gen 5 removed it entirely.
Blame Europeans laws

>>714688721
Victory Road is technically 8, one for each badge.

>>714677551 (OP)
Because they are wrong. Don't try to understand idiots OP

>>714677551 (OP)
Because they started with Kanto, and the fact that you couldn’t transfer your pokemon + there was a significant artstyle change pressed them as kids and they never really recovered emotionally (gen 3 haters are extremely immature manchildren)

Didn’t Gen 5 start censoring nicknames even for single player? Lol awful slop

>>714688742
The absurdity of the situation was the point. Rose has a massive ego and loves being worshiped by the people, so he started a doomsday event he would also fix during his most successful league yet, guaranteeing he would be loved by the people for ages to come.

>>714679958
>a bad thing because the 156 Pokemon introduced were all shit.
Anon... come on now. You're probably exaggerating your point, is there really not ONE Gen 5 mon you like.?

>>714677817
Hoennbab here, base B/W is one of my favorite games in the series.

>>714687117
This dude gets it

>>714688742
Either way it wouldn't have made a difference in stopping a 2 hour tops event. Literally Chairman Rose, the Elon Musk of Galar, had to wait for the big national sporting event to end before going radical. If it was that important then you should have been campaigning the week before. If it could have waited till today it could wait till the afternoon. Like he literally lost his mind

>>714686740
Absolutely not. The grunts look retarded, the admins are a straight downgrade, and Archie dropped his cool suit.

Behold, the most comfy Pokémon game to date.

>>714688750
>to gen V

>>714688742
That would be dumb because then the insane egomaniacal oligarch CEO would seem sane. What they should have done is make the other characters seem more sane in comparison instead of being just as dumb as the villain.

>>714688946
idk about single player but you had to rename cofagrigus to trade it online because it had "FAG" in its name

>>714680013
>worst psuedo

Even ignoring how hard Hydreigon goes in a vacuum, this really didn’t age well

>>714683712
Started with Hoenn and I agree. When X and Y came out I had hoped the flaws were growing pains with the switch to 3D and would be refined away in subsequent generations, but instead they double downed on them.

>>714689002
>posts obese cartoon mole with a neck tumor people only pretend to like because of compfaggotry
good job proving his point

>>714685962
>bro I can le talk to pokemon
>never asks pokemon if they want to be free

>>714688721
>road blocks that actually make sense/are puzzles to be solved
Meanwhile in BW and BW2 it's all
>XXX NO GYM BADGE XXX CANNOT PASS XXX BEEP BOOP XXX I AM CLEARLY A ROBOT
Kills the immersion immediately.

>>714689319
that's the first thing he does when we met him

>>714688534
Day/night was comfy and you're a retarded ADHD kid if you have to look up guides and reset the clock constantly

it was the start of Dexit

>>714680286
Gen 5 designs were so lame, they literally started shilling Kanto shit half way through the anime

>>714688335
Because gamefreak would freak just like they did with Pokemon Colosseum and XD

>>714683712
>Losing the world tournament thing felt like a massive step backwards
You mean like how losing the battle frontier felt like a massive step backwards in gen 5?

>X/Y is where the dialog cutscene focus started to start
gen 5 has more dialogue and cutscenes than XY.

>I-I'm a genwunner
make your post less obvious next time, unova shill

IS THAT....HECKIN CHARIZARD!? FROM KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?

>>714689573
>Gen 5 has more content than XY
Who would've said?

>>714689534
time to replay colosseum

>>714688721
Note how all these roadblocks are things that the player needs to figure out how to naturally unlock themselves while the roadblocks in gen 5 are just lazy "I'm an NPC who will move after you reach x arbitrary point in the game"

>>714689370
Yeah, and our mon says "Nah, I'm good", and yet N still persisted.

>>714689701
>here's your """"more content"""" bro

>>714677817
I started with Pokemon Red and liked every single game until X/Y. Then I somewhat enjoyed OR/AS, hated Sun/Moon, hated Sword/Shield, tolerated Scarlet/Violet

>>714689890
>point proven
ehm.. thanks?

>>714689675
Even better... is GENGAR!!!!!!!

>>714677817
i started with hoenn and i hate everything after kalos
i don't have anything against kalos other than it's pretty a forgettable region poi wise

>>714689825
because he spent his whole life in a room surrounded by abused pokemon

>I'm a genwunner and XY was the first bad game because...um....genwun things exist in the game
>I'm a genwunner and my first game was genwun trust me guys

>>714688386
It performs miles better, but anon please, don't just buy a Switch 2 for that.
https://youtu.be/W-6TPSCiL2Q?si=DbTee1ZIQBAVsvDx&t=104

Scatlet goes in Rancid. I don't think there's a single 3rd game that is not as good as the core 2 predecessors.

>>714688386
if you already have a switch 2 sure, but i would suggest a second hand copy since its cheaper and people are most likely going to be offloading their copies game still looks like shit because they're pushing the "HIRE THIS GAME" aesthetic but at least it runs smooth

>>714690208
basado

>>714686675
>The CGear was the coolest multiplayer interface menu in the entire franchise and would be awesome if restored
c-gear is so gay it’s a blank clock and asks you to turn it off every time you load your save LOL

>>714690208
>Gen 5 and 2 on top
B A S E D
A E
S S
E A
D E S A B

>>714690208
*vomits*

>>714690208
>gen 5
>"the best"
>gen 5 but with more content
>"passable but lowering the bar"

unova's entire reputation hinges on zoomers sucking its cock and hoping no one actually plays the game to check

>>714677551 (OP)
Do they? I figured that the people that didn't like these games because no Johto and no transfers fucked off a long time ago and all the schizophrenia is targeted at gens 5 and 6 while no one cares about RS specifically

>>714690208
I'm probably never playing anything past 3DS, I can't even be arsed to emulate.

>>714689458
>It's ADHD to not have time wait ten hours
Imagine being this retarded

>>714677817
started with gen 3 and base sun/moon killed my enthusiasm for the franchise.
it got worse after x/y but those were the first games in 3d I can excuse that. OR/AS was cool to see the region in 3D and it had a very cool online battle system further tweaked from x/y.
Sun and moon neutered every good aspect from x/y and the story was notably shit. didn't play ultra because I hated it that much

>>714689002
People only are charitable to Excadrill because it’s OP

>>714687830
>TND

>>714689890
Shouldn't this have all the dialogue these mouthbreathers force you to engage in, if you're gonna include just a whole ass character arc in there for shits and giggles? At least Bianca and Cheren ammounted to something by the end of the game, let alone the sequel they were in. How would one such image with Lily Gladion and Hau even look like?

Here's the actual tier list.

>>714691293
>ammounted to something by the end of the game
like what?

>>714680449
>Shartmanitan
lmfao, 98% of the Kanto dex mogs this gross shitnova mon

>>714690098
Does the open world add anything meaningful to the game at all or it is just empty space? I'm curious because for the most part I've entirely avoided seeing anything about those games due to lack of interest.

>>714691508
What do you mean by “meaningful” it’s a creature collecting game you find creatures in the world

>>714691323
>DP over RS/BW
>SwSh not in D
>XY in A

>>714691636
I find an open world to be meaningful if it rewards exploration instead of just open space for the sake of looking big

>>714688613
>this is how retarded you sound, unovashill.
As opposed to
>dodos went extinct in the 17th century
>N-NO THEY DIDN'T BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST IN THE 21ST!
This is how you sound when you act like content being removed in a gen 4 game doesn't count as content removed in gen 4.

>>714691784
You get rewarded with new Pokemon.

>>714677817
I'm a genoneboomer, loved gen 3 even though I was disappointed with the lack of postgame, it's only gen 6 that really threw me off, I stomached ORAS because of nostalgia but that's it.

>>714690871
better but why FRLG below RBY?

>>714691508
It makes space less meaningful. The areas you're meant to approach from one definitive angle can be counted on one hand, and there's like 50 new Pokemon every time you move five feet. The world is used as a selector for what wild stuff you want to see rather than being an obstacle unto itself in most cases.

>>714692148
Gen 1's idiosyncrasies (ie jank) are lots of fun

We must stop the autistic menace and move on from games meant for children.

>>714692523
but I love gambling

>>714692148
Not him but I'd place FRLG a tier below the originals. Gen 1 mechanics are really weird but they provide a very distinct feeling that the remakes don't quite capture. Pokemon just feel more volatile as a whole.

>>714677551 (OP)
gen 1 & 2 are shit gens
3s is the peak of the twos gens buts doesnt have the good stuff that 4 added but 4 is slow as fuck so
gen 5 is the best with 3 being 2nd 4 then 2or1 they are both the same broken shit

>>714677817
Started with Gen 1 and there's only one generation I actively dislike and that's 4th. Its Pokemon were too goddamn ugly and the fellating of gen 1 Pokemon didn't help because I never cared for most of them to begin with.

>>714677817
played red when I was 3/4 and know white 2 is the best game

>>714692335
>>714692848
not my opinion but understandable
I didn't grow up with g1 so I'm not partial to them while I did grow up with g3
also I just really like the Sevii Islands (and also the way the gen handled event pokemon being in the islands, that's just a cool worldbuilding thing)

>>714691323
this but drop all the johto games and bring up emerald

>>714693065
I don't get the weird hate the Sevii islands get. They're fine.

>>714685869
anons theres no need to answer that
its a fucking kids game
you and the bond with your pokemon shows its ok for a trainer and a pokemon to be a team as you save the day

>>714693065
One of the ways I think Pokemon really stepped up its game between Gen 1/2 and 3/4 is events and the integration of rare stuff in general, so I agree there. I just think that if I'm gonna be going to Kanto anyway, I would prefer to have my Persian that crits every other turn. Y'know?
I grew up with Gen 4, so maybe my perspective on Gen 1 is colored by that.

>>714693065
While I loves the idea of the Sevii Islands I hated how the last few islands felt so barren, and how the Deoxys event island was otherwise empty if you didn't have the event unlocked.

>>714693230
Are they hated? I always liked them.
They had some fun postgame stuff, made the world feel bigger. Not a lot of pokemon postgame had as much exploration as that outside of the gen 2 kanto of course.
Pokemon games in general need more exploration imo.

>>714686443
wants another half patched in kanto again

>>714689757
>in gen 5 are just lazy "I'm an NPC who will move after you reach x arbitrary point in the game"
Much like the guy guarding the unknown dungeon in gen 1.
Or the drunk man in gen 1.
...or the slowbro in... Gen 1
...or the guy... Stopping you from going beyond Pewter... If you haven't beaten the gym... In gen 1...

>>714693398
Oh yeah, the speed crit thing was cool and made speed more interesting.
And hyper beam not having a lag turn if it ko'd
Damn, gen 1 did have some cool peculiarities I forgot about

>>714680449
Not one person named a mon better than Darmanitan.

>>714693567
No you don't understand, those are different because I played gen 1 when I was a kid.

>>714693567
Also doesnt Earl stop you from leaving Violet if you don't have the Zephyr badge? Or someone does.

>>714693462
Genwunners hated them because they were "forced" on them. If I remember right you can skip it though.

>>714677551 (OP)
>Why do so many people say these games were the downfall of Pokemon?
Because the massive amount of Pokemania kids grew up and subconsciously realized that Pokemon games are simplistic kid shit. They will still hold the games they played as toddlers in high regard due to nostalgia.

>>714677551 (OP)
Legendaries being godlike instead of just mysterious and rare, the plot being about a world-ending crisis instead of a more personal and localized threat, etc. These are problems that continue to drag the series down, and even worse when they're absent people complain because that's just what Pokemon IS now. Evil teams that are smaller in scope and scale like Skull, Yell, or Star get tons of flak despite being way more interesting and being a way better fit for their respective regions. It's not a coincidence that the first two are supplanted later in the story by the "real" villain team that represents a much bigger threat, and in the case of Macro Cosmos takes what was a simple, perfectly fine story about the drama that unfolds within a League Challenge the region takes a little too seriously and turns it into retarded crap.

The change to legendaries isn't as big of a deal now since we've had so many in varying states of godhood but back in the day Kyogre and Groudon essentially being nature deities who could casually cause global catastrophes because they were beefing with each other was a MASSIVE step up from shit like Mewtwo escaping the Mansion and chilling in a cave, or the lore about Ho-oh resurrecting the beast trio after the Burned Tower incident. It might be "cooler" at a glance but it takes the mystery out of it. Gen 4 takes this to its natural conclusion by having the legendaries be actual deities of space and time along with Arceus being the unironic, actual creator of the universe. Talk about jumping the shark. Having the legendaries being so blatantly powerful and directly involved in the story just makes the whole thing harder to take seriously, which the game is clearly trying to do. Steven Stone, Hoenn's strongest Pokemon trainer, sends a CHILD into the lair of a being that could end the world. What the fuck? Go with them! Remember when Lance helped you raid a Team Rocket base?

>>714693230
Whenever I hear hate for them it's usually in response to people overly praising them for being part of such a rich and amazing postgame, when they're really just like you said, fine.

>>714691647
>DP over RS/BW
Unironically yes. DP has better battles than BW, and better gameplay in general due to features like the Underground and VS Seeker. Maybe RS could go up a tier but I'm not that much of a Hoennfag, even so I A tier'd Emerald. BW is honestly a bland game with its enjoyment being totally dependent on its dex that it doesn't even distribute well.
>SwSh not in D
SwSh is overhated because of the dexcut. It's just an ok game, surprisingly enjoyable due to all the pokemon available in the wild area and the DLCs, and the gyms can be pretty good with dynamax.
>XY in A
There's hardly any difference in the game design between BW2 and XY. Ignoring Challenge Mode because of how absurd it is to unlock, they both have similar pros and cons, like weak gyms and huge pokedex rosters. Gens 5 and 6 are closer in design than Unova fans care to admit because they let their worship of the PWT cloud their judgement. There is no sense in BW2 and XY not sharing a tier, you advocate for BW2 being moved down too.
Also:
>Yawning
He hates everything related to the DS games unlike me.

>>714693670
Farfetch'd, done.

>>714694038
I guess you could sum up a lot of Pokemon vitriol and drama with your post anon.

>>714694203
The worst mon in the series, try again.

I liked digimon cyber slut more then most main gen pokemon games
nearly no of them touch SMT3
when I was a kid I was like in 20 years pokemon will be so amazing its sad how they made so much but its just so much slop games like fifa have had more care put into them

>>714677551 (OP)
It's Genwunners who hate RSE
Gen 3 was the peak of Pokemon arguably

>>714688016
>would be the best pokemon games since gen 1 if not for the fact that they have no redeemable qualities other than being newer (and still technologically behind 10-15 years younger games from other franchises)
Makes sense.

>>714694354
>the worst mon in the series
>when these exist

>>714694554
actually seeing them all together like this the gen 5 mons are pretty good overall

>>714694354
I'd give the "worst mon in the series" title to either Flamigo, or to these two collectively for being the only recolor to ever count as two different Pokemon in the main games.

>>714694554
Bro the only cool mon in the first 5 rows is Excadrill, what an absolutely shit dex

>>714694554
Can you explain why you think every mon in Gen 5 looks bad? Because it seems you just hate the entirety of Gen 5 in every single way.

>>714694637
I could list at least 100 shitmons from that list with worse designs than Farfetch'd, Tardmanitan included.

>>714694554
Gens 5 and 7 were a good time for bugs.

>>714694554
>over 90% good
Higher than most gens

>>714694824
Not without showing how shit your taste really is.

>>714693950
I disagree, pvp is very involved and requires both quick thinking and experience.

I love bug types so much.

>>714694554
Darmanitan, Cryagonal, Cofagrigous, Thunderus, and Siglyph are some of my favorite Pokemon.

>>714694554
>>714694817
Yeah the first half is kind dire, back half helps a lot though
Also I completely forgot the sandile line had a mid evo

>>714694554
Except for the starters they're all pretty solid

>>714694554
>>714695376
Krookodile peeves me a lot. I don't think it looks awful but I consider it a very lazy design, in the same way lots of Gen 4 and 5 evos peeve me. I think Krokorook looks much cooler, just giving it a disproportionate bobblehead, increasing his bmi and giving him a worse case of noodle arms didn't improve him at all. Big shame

>>714695653
no one asked faggot. better than the average johto moeblob shitmon

>>714677551 (OP)
The only downfall of Pokemon was when it turned 3d

>>714694554
There's actually more ambiguous monsters in Gen 5 that I remember. Probably because there are some awful objectmon offenders that made me forget. Not bad.

>>714695920
Pokemon Stadium? That was peak.

>>714695920
Stadium was good so you're probably thinking of XY. Yeah that was some shit.

>>714695826
>no one asked
Yeah the same guy who mentioned Johto did bro, kek

>>714695074
You wouldn't know good taste if it fucked you in the ass. I don't care about convincing someone as demented as you.

>>714684515
>>714684707
Golbat>>> Crobat>Swoobat
Crobat is ugly as fuck

>>714677551 (OP)
it was the first time they removed features from a previous gen (cross gen trading, day/night cycle), and it also introduced the "that kid" pokemon design where legendaries are all gods that control the universe instead of just being particularly rare pokemon.

>>714696364
Then name those Mon.

>>714694554
has snek
has drillbur
has my dog frank
has the based boulder
has the bease swoobat line
has non edgy luxray
conordork my nigger
sismatoda my other nigga
SWAK my human nigger
scolipeed is great looking so is the leaf
wishmacott great
conkcooldurk looks amazing
forgot the fire aps name but his great
maractus one of the best pokemon ever my storm drain nigga buff my nigga and give it more flower colours
the bugrocks look nice
scarfty is based
the flying thing is also good
mummy is good
aracshops is good
turibbish is based and better then kum
coomer pokemon but cool abillity
cimchinko is a cute pokemon
goth line cute and not overly sexual like most of the cute coomer lines ie lobunny
rimmyars is a great looking pokemon cute but werid and cool
a duck
the ice cream coons was great they need to add more colours
sawsbuck great look great fame great design the best pokemon based of something real
the best pika clone
fucking bug in armour loking fucking cool as shit
the best meta mon
dead jellyfish that look good
best spidermon
best singles mon
elek eel with no weaknesses a cool look made gay but gens making it swims
ayyos should of been a new type
chandulure geat pokemon
dragon
ice teddy is whatever
based cool looking ice pokemon should of been stronger
he fast and looks good
stunfisk one of the best design pokes ever
based fighting rats
cool as fuck dragon made pokemon pocket its bitch
based golurk look at how cool and based it looks
3rd evo turned it gay and japanese
better turos
america fuck yeah
based pokemons that kill cubones
heatmor more like give me more
durant is a sleek looking ant needs an evo
come on look at it the best edgy mon
one of the most loved bug types
who gives a shit about the rest legendarys are for fags

>>714696409
>it was the first time they removed features from a previous gen
That would be gen 2 which didn't have a safari zone.
>pokemon design where legendaries are all gods that control the universe instead of just being particularly rare pokemon.
That would be gen 4 with the pokegods.

There are only 493 Pokemon, the rest are retarded and forgettable. I will happily play Gen 1-4 till I'm 6 feet deep sorry HAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAA

>>714696536
>That would be gen 4 with the pokegods.
nah, it definitely starts with Groudon and Kyrogre who have the power to literally destroy the world. Meanwhile Mewtwo was like "i'm really really good at beating 10 year olds at pokemon battling!"

>>714690987
>I have to autistically grind this children's game instead of just playing normally at different times
okay retard
tell me you were born in 2010 without telling me

>better tauros

>>714695082
OK, if you're playing against other people there is more depth. However, the vast majority of people who want to play Pokemon are not looking for a serious comptetitive game, the main game is simplistic kid shit. Competitive pokemon is a niche.

>>714696409
>and it also introduced the "that kid" pokemon design where legendaries are all gods that control the universe
What?
Anon, groudon and kyogre aren't any stronger than previous legends in that regard. I'd argue they're somewhat weaker than Ho-oh and Lugia given Ho-oh can bring things back to life and Lugia with one flap of it's wings can cause a 40 day storm.

>>714696536
>>714696718
Groudon/Kyogre is definitely where legendary wank started, went from rare beasts in Gen 1 to local legends in Gen 2 to representations of forces of nature in 3. Worst of all, they dragged the evil teams with them into generic JRPG plots.

>>714683423
>tertiary

>>714694554
>has a lot of the absolute worst designs across all gens
>but also has a lot of the better ones
Gen 5 is so mixed. Shame a lot of the early route mons are dogshit like the monkes, leaves a bad first impression.

Mewtwo would fuck up 99% of legendaries especially if you include the pokken cutscenes

>>714696718
>it definitely starts with Groudon and Kyrogre who have the power to literally destroy the world
Anon, during the game their drought and rain doesn't even cover the region let alone the world. Their primals might but that's gen 6. In gen 3 they were just ancient pokemon no stronger than the other legends that could show off that power because they were the focus of the story.
In gen 4, they made them "that kid".
>nuh-uh my pokemon is stronger he can control time!
>no my pokemon is stronger he can warp reality!
>no mine is! He's so awesome he lives in his own world and can control antimatter stops the other two
>WELL MINE IS GOD!
See what I mean? They're literal creator gods.

>>714696874
I preferred when a legendary's strength was something of folklore instead of pivotal to the story.

>>714679491
>decline of pokemon
>gen 2 as good as gen 1
>sold way less
>basically dlc
You're just a gen 2 baby

>>714697386
>Anon, during the game their drought and rain doesn't even cover the region let alone the world.
It is explicitly stated in game their powers are going to devastate humanity if they don't get stopped.

>>714677551 (OP)
because gen 2 was peak and everything after that is a watered down experience

>>714696536
>pokemon design where legendaries are all gods that control the universe instead of just being particularly rare pokemon.
What? Movie 2 had the kanto birds nearly destroy the world. And even if you want to argue the anime doesn't count, Ho-Oh was a god. The only thing that gen 3 did was make them the focus of the plot.

>>714698013
Weren't Unown also super powerful in some movie ? I don't think we should bring the anime into this.

>>714698013
Ho oh was a scam to get kids to watch season 1 of pokemon

>>714697925
Gen 2 is laughable garbage. There isn’t a single thing it does that isn’t done better by any other game, including its overrated shitty remakes.
The team building is horrendous given that the Pokemon distribution is bad, the level curve makes it difficult to add new team members after Morty (and practically impossible in Kanto) without grinding, plenty of Johto Pokemon are locked to the postgame or unreasonably rare in remote areas, and the new evolutions that could've helped were restricted to the postgame save for one heart scale. There's a reason why everyone uses Ampharos and Heracross, and it's because options are limited. That makes replayability with different teams harder

The overworld feels hollow and empty. Johto is a linear region with some of the simplest routes, most boring and short required dungeons and unfulfilling optional dungeons with disappointing rewards. You can complete everything it has to offer in under 20 hours, which is short for a Pokemon game. Easily the worst region after Galar. Kanto was downgraded from RBY/FRLG since so many iconic and interesting areas were removed. Besides, all you do is a boss rush through the gym leaders, which should take 3 hours tops. 2 regions mean jack if they're both underwhelming

The pacing is absolutely horrendous. There's no reason for there to be no regular trainers between the Chuck and Jasmine fight, and then having to fight a barrage of underleveled and boring rocket grunts in Mahogany and Goldenrod. Considering that the latter is the main quest's climax, that's extremely disappointing. Certainly doesn't help that most of the boss battles were lame, especially Lance. Who thought 3 Dragonites were a good idea when 2 of them could've easily been replaced by Kingdra and Tyranitar, which would've also showed off some of the new Johto Pokemon which the game failed at doing?

Johto is awful in any way you can think of.

>>714694203
BASED

>>714698349
Yup, gen 2 is actually unplayable

It begins.

>>714698564
What begins? I bounced off of gen 2 when it came out because of how shit the pokemon selection was and the headbutt mechanic to get more pokrmon along with having to time your real life time with the game to get more pokemon

it's garbage, but I'm definitely an outlier

>thread full of people shitting on gens13456+
>call out only a fraction of how dogshit all of the johto games are
>IT LE BEGINS
Reminder Johntrannies are your enemy

>>714698185
Only as a huge group, but I don't remember if that's how it works in the game too. The BW pokedex entry for Unown says "However, if there are two or more, an odd power is said to emerge" but that's years after movie 3 did it.

>>714698987
I don't think you can look at this godforsaken franchise and feel like anybody is your enemy

>two words out of context gets this much hate
now I remember why they made a containment board for pokemon, lmao

>>714699361
Yeah because only retarded manchildren play it

>>714699361
And you have no idea how much of an aids-ridden cesspool it is.

>>714677817
Gen 1 fag here, you're wrong. I stopped after gen 4 mainly cause I personally wasn't hooked by the games anymore. Then tried gen 6 anyway and while it has redeeming qualities, the battle zone not existing was a huge middle finger to the face. The main story was also a letdown. I don't even wanna try anything afterwards.
Tried gen 5 too and it was fine. A few months ago I also tried the double battles subway in there and it was nice. I can totally see why people love that gen.

>>714699361
>>714699416
It's actually insane the downfall of this franchise.

>/vp/ was made because /v/ was practically unusable with the entire catalogue being pokemon threads at one point
>post gen-9, threads pop up so slow a TCG Pocket thread will reach 1k posts before 404

>>714697641
Actually that was a hypothetical by Steven, it was never proven.

>>714697386
Well mine is a titan that wants to stop the god(who is a goddess) from creating the world just so she can bang humans and you from gooning.

>>714699586
Ah yes circa 2014 when people thought it was funny to fill the entire catalogue with pikachu

>>714698349
based

>>714699734
First he has to get out if his wheelchair lmao

You make me feel like my troubled heart is a million miles away!
You make me fell like I'm drunk on stars and we're dancing out into space!
Celestial!

>>714677817
>Genwunners like gen 2
fuck off, revisionist
gen 2 was diarrhea and the only thing worse than it was gen 8

>>714677817
I started with 1, 2 is my favorite, my main disappointment was 3 was more that there wasn't enough for me. I loved it, but it was just abruptly over, and I hoped for more. Emerald did fix that issue but it was still a bit of a bitter pill to swallow at first. That said, the only gens I'm not big on are 5 and it's only the original B/W I don't like and Gen 8. And while I'm not a fan of B/W, I at least respect it much more as a video game than the abomination that is Sword and Shield.

>>714698987
stop forcing gen 2 hate Joe Merrick, it will never catch on. you are genuinely obsessed. bulbapedia mogs your shit site

>>714698349
>There's a reason why everyone uses Ampharos and Heracross
Right off the bat you have exposed yourself as a retard that spends more time reading memes than playing the games. Heracross is a rare and difficult encounter hidden behind headbutt trees, this is not a pokemon everyone uses you retard.
I'm tired of this meme that because something is more used then that must mean options are limited. The pokemon is just popular among the fanbase. There's only two scenarios where a pokemon game doesn't have commonly used pokemon: the dex is fucking huge like XY onwards, or the dex is profoundly unappealing like BW.

>>714677551 (OP)
The general consensus is that Pokemon was steadily improving until generation 5, opinions then become polarized, some argue that generation 5 reinvigorated the series and have a generally favorable view of those games, particularly B2W2, while other say the rot set in generation 5 citing the cutesy designs and the difficulty.
However, most agree that generation 6 was the moment the franchise truly jumped the shark with how unbalanced XY were, even tough the game still has some merits like still having dungeons and a pretty good pokedex.
To me it's generation 7 that dropped the ball, the region is designed like a corridor, the handholding is insane, the amount of cutscenes is painful, the designs are way too region-centric and the pokemon in general have ass stat distribution, removing gyms was a huge mistake and Hau was the first truly horrible rival.
Since then the games have been mid at most, Let's Go was visually pretty good but the capture gimmick bogged it down, SwSh had some visual niggles but a generally decent performance and really fun battles, Legends was ugly but introduced real time captures and battling, and SV has severe technical issues but the world and story were better than they have been in a really long while.

>>714700106
get new material insecure johtranny

>>714700419
you believe gen 8 is the best generation while forcing the idea that nobody liked gen 2 even though it has always been regarded as one of the best. it will never catch on attention starved Joe. nobody uses serebii anymore, you lost

>>714700106
What a strange take, legit nobody dilikes gen 2, sure it suffers from some early installment issues but isn't it generally agreed that HeartGold and SoulSilver are the peak of the franchise together with Emerald, Platinum and Black and White 2?

>>714699994
Everyone loves Gen 2 except for you, evidenced by this thread. Go back to screaming 'johtoddler' on /vp/, loser.

>>714700309
B/W's problem isn't even the dex, it's the distribution. You can't even make a full team before the first gym, it's the only game in the series like this. And out of the very little you can actually catch, the only thing you'll use is the dog. Look at the opposite end, late game there's not a lot worth using. You wanna try out Hydreigon? Good fucking luck with that evolution level. Bisharp? Won't even be ready until the Elite 4. Meanwhile you've been walking around with the broken mole and Rape Ape for ages already, it seems like a waste at that point. Maybe you'll have Haxorus or Galvantula or Chandelure, that's about it.

>>714700391
Yeah, I played Gen 7, convinced myself I enjoyed it, and then I tried a second playthrough and dropped it before finishing the second island. I skipped Gen 8 entirely. I picked up Gen 9 on a whim and had the exact experience you described.

>>714700309
I will say regardless of all of this, Heracross is a lot of fun to use because even if he's somewhat hard to get, when you get him he's got Garchomp's attack stats before the second badge. Even in Gen 2 where his movepool is kinda limited that's awesome as soon as you can give him Strength, Return or Eartquake he wrecks shit, but in HGSS he learns Brick break at level 19, just in time to fodderize Whitney and the rest of the game till Close Combat and Megahorn. Insanely fun mon to use, very worth it to smack trees until you get him.

>>714700391
>Gen IV
>an improvement on anything

>>714700106
Anybody over 100 IQ dropped this series 20 years ago, that's why you don't hear legitimate criticism of the games.

At best gen 2 is DLC and not a full game. Gen 3 is better because it includes WAY more cool and unique NEW pokemon. The actual game design is horrid and boring and the only memorable part of it is that chick's miltnak using rollout

>>714700996
>hgss
>gen2

>>714701015
none of those were on my teams of any playthrough except haxorus for the one they gave as a distribution
i agree with the level thing though, but that's also something you don't know about unless you're consulting guides, which is kind of gay

>>714700606
I'm gonna vomit.

>>714700606
lmao johto sucks dick and all its fat balding millennial faggot fans can do is spam screenshots of them being bullied in shitter

I enjoyed Scarlet

>>714698349
>>714698445
>>714699994
>>714700419
Uh oh, that one guy from /vp/ that hates Johto and screams 'johtoddler' is here. Too bad he's 400 posts too late, now he can't gaslight and samefag to pretend everyone hates Johto. Oh well, better luck next thread bro lmfao

>>714701368
You're trying really hard to push this narrative you created incel

>>714701368
Replying to the same post more than once just shows how asshurt you are, johtranny

>>714701159
Diamond and Pearl suck shit and in general the generation overuses HMs, but Platinum, HeartGold and SoulSilver are great.

>>714701296
The level thing makes it more annoying if you don't know, because you'll just be thinking, "when will this evolve" and now you're in the E4 with some shitter that does nothing. And those are just some examples, the desert in B/W is one of the best areas in the series for catching dumb shit that breaks the game. Almost everyone is going to at least one or two things from the desert.

>>714701368
i'm not some isolated internet celebrity that has beaten your ass in an argument before
gen 2 just sucks, i was there

it came out during the time when there was a plague of spinoffs and they slopped out that crap as a "sequel" while the iron was hot, they were in a feverish rush to make more money (which is smart business) and made a soulless game because of it
designs that are spheres with animal parts stapled to them are terrible, which is 90% of the new designs

>>714701534
"but platinum is good" is cope and doesn't reflect reality

>johtroon twitter/youtube obsession imagedump
oh oh melty

>>714701427
>>714701528
>two posts exactly 1 minute apart
Lmao dude, you're 400 posts too late, the thread has already gone by with 0 posts criticising Johto, confirming that general video games fans consider them to be the best along with RBY. It's over brother, time to give it up.

>>714700391
>generation 5 citing the cutesy designs
What.

>>714700106
The people who complain about this never played gen 1 and 2 when they released. There was no "Kanto Pokemon" or Johto Pokemon" then. It was just am expansion of gen 1 basically. They just don't know anything other than "new region = new pokedex"

I think it's weird how people still have this complaint when every game since gen 6 is basically a hodgepodge of Pokemon from the whole series with some new ones sprinkled in

>>714701767
Nobody talks about johto because there's nothing memorable about johto. Everybody skips it and plays gen 1

>>714701834
>its ok its shit, I grew up with it
johturd in a fucking nutshell

>>714701834
That's why gen 3 was the last good Pokemon game because it tried the hardest to actually deliver a new experience

>>714701781
The whole whinefest about how the pokemon are all round and plushy-like and not pointy and wild like in gen 1.

>>714700062
Sounds like you're a big fan of gimmicks.

I like Pokemon Gold because I played it as a kid on my brothers gameboy color and thought it was really cool, tyranitar and ampharos are awesome. Sorry if that makes you mad

>thread about Gen 3
>organically moves onto discussion about Gen 5 being the real turning point when the games became shit
>suddenly that one bort from /vp/ sees the thread, has a meltdown, starts spamming about Johtochads out of nowhere
We just can't stop winning

>>714702217
>tyranitar is cool
>locked 40 hours into the game
yeah gen 2 sure was great

>>714702027
There were plenty of round and fluffy Pokemon in Gen 1, though, this is exactly like people sharting themselves in fury over hu-mons and objectmons being in Gen2 and up when there are plenty of them in Gen 1.

>>714702251
all i see is an overly emotional defensive faggot/woman upset about being slightly too young when the slightly older crowd says they don't fit in cause of their weird tastes
essentially, we're n64 and you're gaycube

>>714677551 (OP)
Never forget what they took from you

>>714702437
OH NONONONONONO
POKEKEK BROS OUR RESPONSE?!

Outside the Pokémon themselves, Kanto was never good

>>714700309
>or the dex is profoundly unappealing like BW.
So what you're saying is gen 2 is the worst dex.

>muh level curve
You're already champion, it wouldn't make sense for trainers and gym leaders in Kanto to be stronger than Indigo Plateau.
>muh Pokemon distribution
In GSC these Pokemon are newly discovered in BOTH regions, they're not supposed to be native to Johto. It makes sense you'd only find some of them in Kanto. This also means there's new Pokemon to discover right up to the last area of the game instead of it being frontloaded with new stuff and Kanto having nothing new to catch.

>>714702298
>he didn't find a larvitar in the most remote part of the game, evolve it into a tyranitar, and show it off to his friends
I know you just want to fling shit, but I legitimately pity you.

>>714702496
At least thats better than Johto, where 90% of the Pokemon are dogshit in both design and stats so they wouldn’t overshadow Kanto mons

>>714702496
I don't even like first gen pokemon except for some exceptions like Mew, Mewtwo, the usual Charizard, Gengar and Primape

The Gen 2 level curve isn't shit compared to the Gen 2 thread swerve

>>714701224
The most interesting part of Gen 2 is the idea of Pokemon as a world rather than just a game. Whether or not people like that aspect, whether or not all of its execution was great, it was instrumental in planting the idea of what Pokemon could be. Gen 3 expanded on some of these ideas with Contests and had its own great ideas, but took a couple simulation aspects away. Thinking of the flaws of current Pokemon, I legitimately think it's because they didn't embrace the idea of Pokemon as a world enough. It sounds strange to say because they're focusing more on the story and the characters and world building of Pokemon, but ignoring aspects that could make catching and interacting with Pokemon in the world more unique.

>>714702551
huh sounds like if johto wouldn't have had kanto pokemon as filler then kanto could have been a novel experience full of its own pokemon

>>714702251
not sure if I'd call the gen 5 shitflinging organic either for or against but yes there is a marked difference in post quality with gen 2 involved

>>714702251
This just proves that Gen 3 is the best one

>>714702437
Gen 6 added secret bases back though

>>714677817
I'm a gen 2 fag and my next favourite gen is 7 (specifically sun/moon, not too fond of usum)

>>714700391
the general consensus is that you're retarded

>>714702298
The pseudo is almost always acquired near the end of the game. It's not like you get Metagross any earlier, and you only got Salamence relatively early if you knew exactly where to look. Getting your hands on the pseudo early didn't become a thing until Platinum and since it became common knowledge everyone and their mom goes for Gible ASAP. They're strong, you shouldn't be able to get them early.

>>714677551 (OP)
the only thing wrong about gen 3 was no day cycle

nothing will top the protagonist from the previous game being a chad training alone in the mountains because nobody is greater than him, truly the coolest secret final boss in a Pokemon game. bring back edge kino

>>714702496
Kanto is shit
Johto is shit
Only together do they make a kino region

>>714702551
>start shitty gen 2 save
>oh boy ready to get these epic gen 2 pokemon, 20 hours in what did I get?
>Spinarak
>ledyba
>sunflora
>to this day the worst pokemon in the game
uh okay that's pretty shit lets keep playing and see what I get
>stantler
>hopip
>wooper
>hoothoot
>corsola
>trashmon
alright halfway through the game ready for some real heavy hitters now
>Tauros
>miltank
>both normal type cow pokemon
WOW
OKAY MOSTLY DONE WITH THE REGION WHAT IS IN STORE?
>sentret

AHHHAHHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

>>714703251
Don’t forget you’ll see level 15 Pidgey and Rattata from the first route all the way until you’re about to fight Red

>>714703072
Also an amazing retard filter, I love hearing people bitch about having to grind to beat Red instead of just using their brains to bridge the level gap. You don't have to grind at all as long as you play smart and have a good team.

>>714703251
Don't forget houndour (and slugma) only being post game in kanto

>>714703251
>spinarak
sphere shaped
>ledyba
sphere shaped
>sunflora
sphere shaped
>stantler
sphere on its ass and spheres on its antlers
>hopip
sphere shaped
>wooper
sphere shaped
>hoothoot
sphere shaped
>corsola
sphere shaped
>miltank
sphere shaped

>>714701593
>slopped out that crap as a "sequel" while the iron was hot
regardless of how you feel about G/S, you know nothing of its development

>>714688742
either that or say that it's happening 1000 years later but now is the only time to prevent it since the right conditions are met and it'd take even longer then 1000 years for it to happen again

>>714679491
this is kind of wild to see. i havent touched a pokemon game since sun and moon but i remember HGSS and B/W to be the most revered pokemon titles. what happened?

>>714703445
oh great here comes the lecture about the programming hero that compressed it
so niche knowledge to have, consider me appropriately whelmed by your expertise

Worst thing about every Gen:

>Gen 1: dogshit movesets
>Gen 2: they got way too cutesy with the daily gift and cellphone shit
>Gen 3: they tried to balance things out by making every Hoennmon a forever dogshit mixed attacker
>Gen 4: they ran like fucking shit
>Gen 5: they removed and shuffled a bunch of basic bitch shit from 1 to 2 in very baffling ways
>Gen 6: they didn't finish the post-game
>Gen 7: they didn't finish the game
>Gen 8: I'm never playing it
>Gen 9: I'm never, EVER playing it

Eat a dick Game Freak.

>>714703505
HGSS are mostly bad and make for boring replays. That image is mostly dicksucking Gen 2 though

>>714677551 (OP)
Because they were alive before you, and therefore had no nostalgia goggles for these 3/10 JRPGs.

>>714703548
So you knew, and you still lied. Keep digging yourself into a hole, retard-kun.

>>714703775
nope, it was slopped out while the iron was hot
there isn't a change to that within the spoken context

your little feelgood heartwarming tall tale doesn't change anything

>>714703251
>>oh boy ready to get these epic gen 2 pokemon
Stopped reading there, this was and is a retarded mindset to have when going into a new Pokemon game. That's something you can do if you really want to pursue it, but it's not the point of most of the mainline games.
>b-but I gotta catch 'em all!!!!
Congrats, you fell hook line and sinker for Western marketing that has nothing to do with the actual design ethos of the games. There's a reason the goal of the games is to become champion, and that completing the Pokedex rarely gets you more than a slap on the ass.

>>714703548
Not even that. We now have shit like the spaceworld demo to see just how different the game was and the different designs. You knew that though. You're just being a retard on purpose because you're some weird schizo whose little pecker shoots up into a hateboner any time a certain game is mentioned.

>>714679798
it was a good idea to coincide with Unova being a western area far away from previously introduced japan inspired area, but the execution was lame

>>714703505
they still are
some /vp/ resident schizo is going at it
disregard

>>714703978
yeah, i did know that, i was there, i didn't watch the history of gen 1 and gen 2 on youtube like you defensive little ladies

>>714703505
Nuzlockes happened.

>>714703572
Gen 1 movesets are shit for a lot of mons, but it's sometimes more fun and interesting trying to make use of TMs and certain strats than just "FIRE-TYPE MON GET STRONG FIRE MOVE"

>>714703627
>HGSS are mostly bad and make for boring replays
can you expand upon this please im very curious

>>714704204
I am mostly pissed about bug type mons getting jack shit.

>>714701015
>You can't even make a full team before the first gym, it's the only game in the series like this.
Because it's also the only game without some kind of dungeon before the first gym.
>G1: Viridian Forest
>G2: Sprout Tower, dark cave is optional if you want to count that
>G3: Petalburg forest
>G4: Oreburgh Gate, Oreburgh Mine
>G6: Viridian Forest
>G7: Verdant Cavern
Which IS the gym I suppose but still I think you can get to that one cave on the beach before that too.
>G8: the entire fucking wild area, Galar Mine

>>714677551 (OP)
I wouldn't say it's the start of the downfall. I'd say gen 5 was the start
However, going from a larger, connected world that in every way felt like a next step, to an isolated land, with limited mons carried over, and the almost forced mechanics of weather shenanigans, contests and berries was a jarring disconnect for those who were at ground zero of pokemania.
That said, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy nerding out over the first dragon/psychic combo. 15 yo me fucking loved that shit

>>714703572
>>Gen 8: I'm never playing it
>>Gen 9: I'm never, EVER playing it
Based, Dexcut made sure I will never play past gen 7

>>714677551 (OP)
It was the first manufactured generation, made to keep milking the cow. RBY and GSC were pure sovl. RSE were made to sell toys, just like all the subsequent generations.

>>714704371
>RSE were made to sell toys
so were gen 1 and 2 retard

>>714704274
Bugs got it the worst of anything in gen 1
>essentially the only true counter to the most powerful type in the game
>a lot of bug Pokemon are weak to Psychic anyway
>the best bug move is fucking Pin Missile

>>714702251
>>organically moves onto discussion about Gen 5 being the real turning point when the games became shit
>organically
>literally nothing but bait

>>714703445
Eh, he's right. GF absolutely phoned it in with gen 2, that's why they needed a delay in the first place. Let's not forget what they almost did to Kanto

>>714677551 (OP)
In a way these were the first fully realized non-beta pokemon games.

The Kanto games were an accident (and milking) and the Johto games were a rush job to feed the Pokeboom.

>>714704610
2 yeah, 1 no
1 was just a game that got really popular, 2 was the cutesy sphereoid merchandise

>>714695110
Based.

Steel is my beloved.

>>714704204
That's definitely one point people don't get about gen 1. You're supposed to use TMs to bolster your Pokemon and deciding who to use those TMs on is part of the game. Most Pokemon weren't even supposed to be some free win option.

>>714705632
Mein fucking negger, I love Aggron.

>>714701015
I always have Zebstrika, not the greatest Electric type but decently strong, and I tend to breed one with Double Kick and Double-Edge as soon as I catch a Deerling. Plus there's the two Fossil Pokemon who are really good, Lilligant, Krookodile, Ferrothorn, Druddigon, Golurk, and the Swords of Justice.

>>714703572
They finished gens 8 and 9... after DLC of course.

>>714704204
>>714705667
Its one thing if a grass type doesnt get Solar Beam naturally but some Pokemon straight up never get anything stronger than Bubble or Confusion for STAB. goldeen/Sraking cannot lesrn any water move other than Waterfall naturally.