>NOOO YOU CANT MAKE ME WORK HARD AT MY DREAM JOB I NEED TEN YEARS TO WORK ON THIS MUH MENTAL HEALTH

this is why games suck now btw and why you shouldn't hire women

jewish OP

>>715262428 (OP)
>this is why games suck now
Games made with crunch still suck. Harsh working conditions do not impact the quality of the game.

You sound like a despicable, unlikeable, miserable little man.

>>715262706
Games used to be made by young white men who would chug jolt cola and work all day and night when they were good

>>715262843
I think it has more to do with the fact that game companies were founded and were run by devs/gamers. Then gaming became too big and they were replaced by soulless suits. It's about vision and team morale

>>715262428 (OP)
>OP doesn't understand the difference between crunch and crunch culture.
I'm sorry retard-kun we will hand out leaflets for you next time so you can learn like a responsible gamer.

>>715262706
>Harsh working conditions do not impact the quality of the game.
Humans tend to preform worse with poor morale.

>>715262843
Yeah, a bunch of dudes who actually liked and were invested in the shit they made. Crunch from individual passion can result in some amazing things, but crunch as corporate mandate is just awful.

>>715263048
If you have a full time job that pays you to make games than you should be working your ass off every day

>>715262428 (OP)
>shouldn't hire women
And other minorities, only cishet white man

>>715262843
Weird
Its almost like THEY decided to work that hard, because they co-owned the company and could see the effort be actually impacted in games.

>>715263230
someone who isn't passionate about video games shouldn't be working for a game company
simple as

>>715262428 (OP)
>Working twice as long with at best a minor boost to productivity is good actually

>>715262428 (OP)
The age of the white man is over, its time to hire indians

>this is why games suck now
Right, not because ALL of the talent left the industry.
The only thing sucking in this thread is OP sucking cocks.

>>715263894
this. the people who bitch about muh crunch are casuals who just thought working in video games would be an easy desk job

>>715263969
at least indians won't bitch and moan about having to do their job and can handle """crunch culture""" (actually having to do work at work)

>>715262428 (OP)
Crunch culture is retarded because all of these AAA games have been shit anyway
>AAAAH I NEED TO WORK 25 HOURS A DAY TO MAKE THIS SHIT GAME NOBODY WILL LIKE THAT HAS MICROTRANSACTIONS
May as well not bother if you are talentless

>>715264281
It's almost impressive how dumb you are. Having a job is much different than sitting in your parent's basement, but you'd never know that, retard.

""""Crunch culture""""" is a result of the retards spending the first 15 months of the project slacking off then acting all shocked and horrified when they get told they'll need to work extra hard for the final 3 months to meet the deadline they were told about two fucking years ago.

>>715262428 (OP)
It's a pickle
On one hand crunch culture will make them hire pajeet slaves that will gladly work nonstop for scraps
On the other a laid back dev encourages them to hire women to do non-jobs and other subhumans

>>715264601
so you don't have to work at work?

>>715264646
100% this. people who complain about """crunch""" are just lazy faggots who are mad they have to actually do their job, and people who defend them are also lazy faggots and are the reason games are such shit these days

>>715264810
again, you're a disingenuous retard who's never had a job. It's easy to sit your fat ass down and complain when you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>715262428 (OP)
Games suck because the people at the top have unrealistic expectations.
>More more faster
>Churn games out faster
>I don't care if the game is larger in scope and would take longer because of that, FASTER
>Whoops, guess you'll have to work 100 hour weeks to meet the deadline
>No, we can't possibly extend the deadline, because ..WE JUST CAN'T OKAY?!

>anons itt defending lazy developers
>>/reddit/

>>715265186
then stop being a fag and enlighten me. how does it work?

>all talent leaves the company to make more money and work less hours doing other software development/security/networking
>replace them with cheap foreign/underqualified labor
>gut critical parts of the company to desperately try to save the management's income
>hail mary a comically expensive marketing campaign to try to recoup lost customers
>ESG money dries up
>inject game with microtransactions and ship it out half-finished while you desperately try to secure just one more paycheck
>either a bigger company comes in and bails you out or you just fold after doing this a few times
This is every single AAA publisher/developer btw.

>>715264805
>work nonstop
Pajeets don't work, they delegate and buy time, aka they lollygag. This is because 1 they detest working, 2 because they're immensely incompetent, and 3 because they're inherently lazy. The only reason why people hire indians is because they will accept any sum, endure any humiliation in order to have the chance for an income. Corpos love their meek, groveling and spineless attitude, while purposedly ignoring their worst traits, like their passive aggresiveness, their pettiness, their inadequate workplace conduct and lack of hygiene, because you'll have to deal with it, not them.

>>715265267
I'm just here to call you a fag. I'm know you have more than enough time to enlighten yourself.

>>715265571
>Corpos

>>715265573
>claim retarded argument
>"ok where is your evidence"
>dyor lmao
nigger

>>715265753
what evidence do I need other than your posts to know you're a retard? You haven't made an argument beyond "these people at this job I know nothing about are lazy"

>>715266139
>these people at this job are lazy

now refute this without being a faggot

>>715266387
I accept your concession. Now be a good boy and help mom bring the groceries in :)

>>715263894
Dumbass, literally anyone getting into video game development is on some level passionate about it. If they didn't care and just wanted to collect a paycheck they would be taking their degree and going into some corpo software engineer or IT position that would pay more money. The entire industry is built upon churning those people through a corporate meat grinder until they burn and leave the industry, or stay within in too long to be offered some insanely high bonus on their pay package and then the corporation finds any excuse they can find to fire them so they don't have to pay out what's owed.

Bungie is a perfect example of this. Literally ALL of the key talent that made Halo what it was with the exception of Jason Jones have either quit the studio due to the crunch culture Bungie had, or when Bungie turned more corporate were fired or laid off over time, usually because the talent becomes too expensive for their bottom line. Bungie found an excuse to fire Marty and deny him his pay package when he decided to peacock "too much" for them on twitter when Activision cut him and McCarthy's music, and even when you keep your head down like his right-hand man Salvatori you just get kicked out from a round of layoffs because his salary was getting too high.

While there was more of an argument for crunch back in the day when technology was advancing at a significantly faster rate (meaning less runway, like how FF9 needed to get pushed out the door in the final stretch of development because the PS2 was already out at the time of release) In just about every case an extended period of crunch culture is exactly what kills talented studios and teams. Bungie's golden age ended thanks to it, Core Design and the original Tomb Raider series was ruined because Eidos was insistent on a Tomb Raider game every fucking year instead of just letting the team have the two year dev cycle they were asking for. So many different cases.

>>715265571
and yet they will still do the work when entitled women and trannies bitch and moan on twitter about how unfair it is that their boss is making them do their job

>>715266657
faggot

>>715266686
>literally anyone getting into video game development is on some level passionate about it.

this is not true. many people, especially women, just see a job opening and think "oh games are fun" and that's the extent of their passion.

Part of why games suck is that they don't thoroughly test things. It seems normalised to release without thorough limit testing and then wait for paying customers to find issues. And then depending on an executive decision they will decide if that issue is worth the time and cost to chase down and fix.

>>715266895
These are assumptions you made up in your head based on nothing, now mommy 's waiting. You live rent free, so you really should help out, retard.

>>715266686
keep seething lazy faggot

>>715266895
So you're saying that... on some level.... they're passionate about it? Because again, if they weren't they would just be taking their knowledge of how to code in C++ and go literally anywhere else where they would be paid like 50% more for half the work working on some website back-end, or at least they were back when the software engineering boom was still happening. I presented you two actual real examples to support my argument, while you're some dumbfuck fabricating some fiction in your head to justify your argument instead.

Y'know, if you're going to put so mental effort into that, maybe you should find a more productive creative outlet for it.

>>715262428 (OP)
I unironically agree. Everyone can piss, shit, and cry themselves about “muh evil corporations” if they want but we cannot skate around one point: there is a huge work ethic problem right now. Especially in western society. Being exceptional takes a lot of work. It takes discipline. It requires a huge amount of effort that most people think is unreasonable. You can’t avoid this fact.
But now we have a bunch of weird LGBT DSA losers in this industry who want 4 day work weeks, 2 weeks of mental health days, 6 weeks of medical time off to get hormone replacement therapy, and all this other bullshit. This isn’t an environment where creating exceptional products is possible. You need to have people who want to go all in, even if it comes at a personal sacrifice.

>>715267727
When's your game coming out?

>>715267997
Tomorrow

>>715267727
this this THIS. rewarding lazy retards who want to be paid 100k a year for working 1 day a month is why this country is complete shit rn

listen to this baby cry about making 100 grand a year for a game he couldn't even complete in 7 years this is the state of western devs now

https://youtu.be/YyRC1lWXmKU?si=uIZWbi42R_3jGX8F

>>715267727
They're just going to be laid off next quarter for a 0.25% bump in share price anyway, regardless of how the game performs. If your hard work isn't going to be rewarded why bother?

Being a game dev seems grim desu, your pay is shit compared to the non-vidya side of the industry and you're also expected to work silly hours while getting fired at the end of the project is considered normal, all this so you can see your name in the credits
In fairness it’s not just games, any “dream job” type industry exploits the shit out of workers since people are willing to accept everything just to get it

>>715269084
>If your hard work isn't going to be rewarded why bother?
lazy millennials in a nutshell
you work hard to impress your boss so they have a reason to keep you around, something none of these """victims of crunch""" have ever tried

>>715267727
Not how this works, bootlicker.
The ones doing the actual work, not just in vidya but in other companies, are mostly white nerds.
What's the incentive for working hard when said white nerds see all the DEI hires doing jack shit and forcing them into endless bullshit meetings while earning as much, if not more?
"Gen Z boss and a mini" and other "lazy girl job" chinktoks ring any bells?

>>715269208
>>715269084

these people are paid 2-3x the average wage to sit in a fancy air conditioned office all day playing video games

>>715269368
>you work hard to impress your boss so they have a reason to keep you around
No, jew, you keep workers around when they do what you agreed they'd do.
You're not entitled to any free extra effort.

>>715269556
if you just want to do the bare minimum than you need to go flip burgers or something. professional jobs should be made up of people who have ambition to be the greatest not just punch in and out and bitch about vacation time.

>>715269556
>do the bare minimum with endless bitching and expect to be rewarded
but no, obviously """crunch culture""' is the reason games are bad these days

>>715269747
>>715269830
Why do you deserve the free extra effort, jew?

>>715262428 (OP)
If your game can't be churned out by a room full of a dozen or so white dudes within half a year its not worth playing, that's how all the studios used to do it and it seemed to work pretty well back then

>>715269858
why do you deserve a job at all, lazy faggot?

>>715269980
Answer the question, jew.

>>715269401
>Gen Z boss and a mini
The people in that video were all friends who started some CPG company. That TikTok was part of a viral marketing plan to promote their company. The fact that you don’t know or understand this tells me you’re a person that operates off low information. You easily fall for people who intentionally misrepresent facts to rile you up. Therefore, I’m just going to ignore everything else you said because I know I am not dealing with a rational person here.

>>715269208
There's a reason why you saw basically the entire film industry unionize by the 1930s, around 30 years after the establishment of that industry. (Also, the reason why you will see the CGI studios which are currently not unionized move towards it after suffering the same level of corporate bullshit.)

>>715269368
Why was Michael Salvatori, the co-composer of Halo and the lead composer for the Destiny franchise after Bungie fired Marty let go from Bungie last year? Did he not do a good enough job after 30 years at the company working on literally every single Bungie game from Myth 1 onwards?

>>715269484
>He thinks game developers are literally playing video games all day and not looking at Visual Studio for 8 hours a day
Shouldn't you be outside playing in a park or something, summerfag?

>>715262843
yeah and back then videogames looked like DOOM and now big games have to look hyperrealistic as shit which takes a LOT more manpower and time

>>715262428 (OP)
Sky scrapers are built in two years. Rails, roads and other things in less. All of these huge things are made by dedicated workers in such a short time and produce these grand results.
Yet game developers will pretend that something this big needs years to make.

>>715270029
That's fine, it's not like there are countless other examples of femoids blogging about their tech job lives doing jack shit at the office other than grabbing lunch and yapping on meetings.

>>715262428 (OP)
multiple studies have been conducted that clearly show there is a negative feedback between highly-skilled mental work and placing deadlines/monetary incentives. incentives like that work great for low-skill or manual labor tasks ("finish digging this ditch by lunch and I'll double your pay"). But try them in a high-skill setting ("finish coding this game in 6 months and I'll give you a $100,000 bonus") and the workers crash and burn, hard. They actually perform worse than if there was no incentive and were just left to their own devices.

>>715270009
if you aren't willing to put in extra effort for a job you supposedly love you shouldn't bitch and moan when you are replaced by someone who actually does care enough about the job to go above and beyond

>>715270317
You didn't answer the question, jew.
I repeat: what makes you entitled to the free extra effort?

>>715270416
the job itself. an it's not "free" it pays off with promotions later. if not than you quit and find a company that does value your extra effort. that's how it used to work

>>715262428 (OP)
>MY DREAM JOB
Working on shit you dislike with a passion is not a dream job at all.
Doing shit that absolutely fucking retarded shareholders demand you to.
Do you actually think anyone working in concord for example actually believed the game would succeed? anyone with enough brain to do a successful unreal engine project is smart enough to know that overwatch will rape your online game.

Self imposed crunches happen naturally if you're working on something you like.

>>715270557
>the job itself
Yes, those workers are already doing what's described in the contract. What entitles you to any free extra effort?
>an it's not "free" it pays off with promotions later
We've heard enough empty promises like that. That system is dead and gone. You either cough up the shekels right now or fuck off.
>if not than you quit and find a company that does value your extra effort
Cool. Why the kvetching, then?

>>715270090
The film industry is a terrible example of proving your point is because basically every single major production works hours that søy vidya game devs would consider “crunch”, for months on end. The only difference is that after unions they got better pay, more guaranteed meal breaks, much better OT compensation, health benefits, etc. But the actual work is still A LOT, with very long hours. There’s no scenario where creating a product at a high level doesn’t require long hours. You can’t just ignore that part.

Why has productivity gone to shit among western AAA game devs?

>>715270934
this. i work in production and it's not uncommon to have constant 16 hour days. movies burn money every single second they are not shooting. it's true that we get paid nice OT but when you add it all up it's still less than some game dev making a salary. working on a movie is constant, non stop crunch and they will just throw your ass out if you complain or slack off because they literally don't even have the time to negotiate with you.

>>715271105
women and women brained attitudes about hard work

>>715271105
Managerial bloat and DEI hires doing the dev jobs.

>>715271105
Whites and asians being replaced by politically charged but completely untalented whites.

>>715271692
Fat retard who doesn't work/works retail answer

>>715262428 (OP)
>Oh boss-sama, make me work 16 hours shifts every single day of the week for 3 years because we set the release date too soon!!!
>We really need to destroy our health so CEO-sama can get his juicy 50 million bonus every year just to fire us the moment the game releases!!!
Fuck you

>>715262428 (OP)
>mfw as European I don't get the fuss
You get paid for the overtime, I hope.

>>715262706
>Harsh working conditions do not impact the quality of the game.
Except they do
>devs become unfocused due to excessively long hours and lack of sleep and start making more mistakes
>the more they crunch the less passionate the devs get and the more they just want to get shit over with resulting in a lower quality game

>>715271886
>mfw i'm being paid 6 figures to work on my passion and my boss sets a deadline for me

>>715271105
While tools have gotten better games have gotten bigger and more difficult to manage. I also wouldn't be surprised if games were having trouble attracting talent that stays, because the industry pays less than almost any other dev work while being much more difficult With zero job security. Basically you only have old heads, naive people right out of college, and foreigners

>>715271898
Technically in my country it's illegal to work more than 80 of overtime per year, unless it's an extreme exception that's needed or else the company goes under, do you think people are only working 80 hours per year?
Absolutely not, they work those 80 hours just in a month and in most cases they don't even pay extra and pay them as regular hours.
But hey, if you ever dare not declare some profits in your yearly income tax you get fucked over by our irs really hard.

Do any game devs use Agile methodologies? I have found in web dev crunch has kind of been solved by competent project management.

>>715272131
Nobody is getting paid 6 figures in the gaming industry, or whatever other country which isn't the US, you'd know this if you ever held a job in your life.
And I'm a fucking webdev, I ain't getting into that shit for less pay than I can achieve making webpages.

>>715272396
There's agile and there's "agile" (2 week waterfall/kanban abortions).
Most companies are using "agile".

>>715272420
Plenty of devs make six figures, but those are living by the coast so it kind of cancels out due to cost of living

>>715271898
salary means no overtime :^)

>>715272131
>6 figure salaries
>especially for entry level developers
Retard-kun...

>>715273000
ok then 70k. that's still much more than the average salary

>>715271886
Stupid nigger, there are a lot of people that have to work hard at their job. Video game devs are not some specifically oppressed group of people. The guys in the factories that make the hardware that allows games to be developed, they work long hours. The Amazon guy who has piss in bottles while he delivers the discs so people can play the game works long hours. The dudes on the film set when they make a movie adaptation of the game have to work long hours. The pimple-faced dorks at the movie theater who have to clean up mountains of popcorn and gummies off the floor when the movie is released, they also work long hours.
What the fuck is so special about video game devs that they think they are exempt?

>>715271105
Brain drain, senior devs are retiring, or leaving the industry altogether due to workplace conditions or to make more money. Which also means the newer talent isn't being trained by said senior devs.

>>715262428 (OP)
As far as I can tell, they're not hiring anybody.

>>715273223
You forgot to mention the starving Africans.

>>715272762
Have in mind that most of those 6 figures salaries are basically somewhat around 50 to 70% stocks and the rest is actual money, so they really don't get paid that much anyways, and in california and all of those places, you need to pay several thousand for a decrepit apartment shared with other people, so you basically with an around 3k wage in south america or the european piigs countries you're actually more wealthy than in the US with a "12k" a month wage.

I know this is a bait thread but even still both sides are retarded.

Devs need to accept that crunch is going to happen. Every job on the planet has crunch. It's really not something you can avoid and most time time it isn't that bad.

Flip side is management usually refuses to do anything to actually make crunch time easier and then starts sending out threats to anyone who refuses to work in horrible conditions or even for free.

>>715271898
What's the point of all that money if you can't spend it?

>>715273223
>Other people suffer in the workplace due to quasi slavery work conditions
>Which means that instead of improving their work conditions we need to make everyone lose their health at work and pay them less
The absolute state...

>>715273164
That 70k might as well be 30k due to the high cost of living in areas that AAA game companies usually operate in.

>>715273568
/thread

>>715273490
>DUDE YOU NEED TO MAKE SO MUCH MORE IN CALIFORNIA TO LIVE BRO

this is such a myth. I moved to cali from texas 8 years ago and the only thing more expensive is rent. I just have to make like 800 dollars more a month. it's not like food and other bills cost more.

>>715262428 (OP)
You think games are taking longer because of good working conditions? It's gotten worse with time, not better.

>>715262706
>Harsh working conditions do not impact the quality of the game.
Usually that does impact it, by squeezing what passion they have left out of them and making any talented staff more likely to quit the company or industry.

hahahahhah how the fuck is crunch real hahaha nigga just effectively manage your time like nigga get the job done in a timely manor haha

>>715262428 (OP)
Crunch is due to bad management
Sucks to be 12 huh op?

>>715262428 (OP)
NEET or kike? Call it.

>>715273568
Not at all. Crunch only happens when terrible managers miscommunicate the rate of progress to make themselves look better. They only need to do that because investors are vampires who demand rapid return. All of this is unnecessary and driven by greed.

Everybody else has to work long hours constantly, be on call, maintain decorum, and be on edge constantly about the possibility of getting dropped. Nobody cares about this though.
But le heckin game developers can sit around for months even years "brainstorming," show up to work with dyed blue hair and a t-shirt, and then complain when they have to do actual work. Somehow this garners sympathy from retards? Nobody cares about "crunch" in literally any other field, but for some reason we are supposed to get the violin out when it comes to game developers?

>>715273759
>slaves who live in the big house, get to sleep in a real bed, and eat master’s leftovers
>trying to gain sympathy from the slaves that have to work outside in 100 degree weather all day
The absolute state……

>>715273568
>Every job on the planet has crunch
As a full time dev making management tools in C#, I do not have any crunch.
Why? Because our company is small and I do not have a retard (manager) setting deadlines for me. I negotiate that time with client myself.

Crunch is a symptom of poor time management and planning.
"Managers" only make it worse since they do not know what is the realistic timescale to finish products.

>>715273865
How do you make 800 more dollars a month?

>>715274336
No that’s just you. Lots of people have job security. Lots of people have contracts. Stop projecting your own terrible job insecurity onto everyone else.

>>715262843
The difference between owning the product and being owned by the owner of the product

>>715273223
Not just this, but a video game developer is a professional. It is a profession, and it is thr job of someone working in a profession to be a professional. That means working until the task is complete regardless of how many hours it takes and when it has to be done. Its no different than the doctor who has to work late hours in the ER. If you want to be a professional in a comfy office setting then you have to act like it. You are paid to get the job done.

>>715269368
>you work hard to impress your boss so they have a reason to keep you around
Doesn't matter. Mr Shekelstein wants the share price to go up this quarter so he can sell. He doesn't care that you're valuable to the company in the long term; he's selling so that's not his problem, and not paying your salary means he gets more of a payout when he does. Remember, legally, his word trumps the people who actually do the work and know the company!

>>715274442
>>715274409
Do you think this experience is normal for the majority of people in the US, let alone the whole world?
You could name 20 different jobs/careers and like 15 of them will have shitty work life balance. Even “high paying” ones. Like a doctor or lawyer. That’s the point.

>>715274657
Video game development isn't an emergency service, no one's gonna die if you work a normal work week

>>715274391
>I suffered why wouldn't everyone else suffer too?
Basically resuming you're crashout
But lemme guess, you watch the $SPORT match every weekend religiously and don't see any issue with a ball kicker earning 70 million a year.

>>715262428 (OP)
Shalom

>>715274926
If there is one thing we know how to do in 'merica. It's work, to the point of near total breakdown. Your average European would projectile vomit if they saw how competitive it is.

>>715274926
You are doing video games, not heart transplants.
Also the difference is if that job forces you to overwork or you decide to overwork yourself for profit.

>>715274218
Everyone misjudges things. Difference is weather you fix the mistakes or not.

Coming from someone who worked crunch hours on a bunch of projects.
Crunch isn't bad because it's long hours doing necessary work. It's bad because you're trying to do in 10 hours something that needed to be done in 2 weeks, 5 months ago. Management had a bunch of useless meetings every week to see how the project was doing, but no one told them (or if told, they ignored it) that some core features weren't implemented with 2 weeks to go.

You know the saying "agile development is cool in theory, but when the going gets rough, 99% of projects will do cascade"? That's exactly what happens.

Crunch is trying to save a project by implementing core features in 1/5 of the time needed, because someone 5 months ago thought "they aren't necessary right now". And here we are, 90-hour work weeks.

>>715275314
Managers just blame devs and pocket the profit.

>>715274409
>Crunch is a symptom of poor time management and planning.
Yes. But on the part of the employees.

The reason crunch is a thing is because people work at a slow and leisurely pace, if they even work at all, right up until the 11th hour. People start doing this shit at school. It doesn't stop just because they became adults with a job. Productivity at the start of the development cycle is like 30% to 40%. At the end it's like 80%. If they didn't slack off so much before they wouldn't have to crunch so hard later.

>>715262749
This. OP likely doesn't even have a job, and will kill himself once his enabler dies. Why should we listen to such a creature?

>>715274950
>being a lawyer is not an emergency service. Nobody is going to die if you don't work on filing overnight
>being software developer isn't an emergency service. Nobody is going to die if you don't get the feature deployed by tomorrow morning before investors want to see.
>being in IT isn't an emergency service. Nobody is going to die if you don't wake up to fix the server you are responsible for maintaining.
Meanwhile, there are people working grueling hours to maintain the sewer system and shit. There are homeless people living in tents unable to get any job ever, maybe a minimum wage job if they are lucky. But waahhhh woe is me I have to work in an air conditioned office to complete a task that I am paid to do.

>>715274926
Doctors and lawyers have a lot more freedom than you think. Avg doctor is getting 20-30 vacation days a year. Doctors take whole weeks on and off. Lawyers have almost total freedom unless they’re in court. I’m not talking about law clerks. You’re just stuck in a bad job and taking out on everyone else. Sorry bro you can find something better though.

>>715275616
Doctors and lawyers are essentially equivalent to upper management. To get to that level you have do years of insane hours with mediocre pay.

>>715275616
>Lawyers have almost total freedom unless they’re in court
Lmao even

>>715275467
If you do not see the bigger picture and there is nobody to show it to you, its obvious you will not finish on time.
Its the job of project leads and branch managers to set the vision and timescale for phases.
You do not see bridges being built overtime on last second.

>>715275606
If you’re mad about your own hours do something about it don’t get pissy at other people complaining about their own shitty jobs

>>715275071
This a retarded strawman because basically everyone thinks modern sports players are overly entitled. Myself included. Not sure what sports even has to do with anything. If you want me to criticize NFL players for being lazy and annoying, go make a thread and I will complain about them too.

>>715275467
Do you always talk out of your ass, or are you just trying it out today? You're just making people up in your head and pretending they exist so you can be right.

>>715275616
You’re talking about people who have their own practice. Which most people don’t, and it takes years and years to build up to that. Your average doctor or lawyer works 60 hours a week, MINIMUM. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about kek.

>>715275797
>Its the job of project leads and branch managers to set the vision and timescale for phases.
They do. And the employees consistently miss the deadlines.
>You do not see bridges being built overtime on last second.
That's because they have unions but there's still the same problem there; lazy workers with low productivity leading to missed milestones. Nothing is ever on time and on budget.

>>715275467
Whether this is right or wrong it’s Managements job to keep the pace of work up. Like it or not, the bottom level employee is actually not responsible for their own rate of work. Their manager is. If someone is falling behind, it’s the managers responsibility to resolve that and get the employee back on track. Employees just move their feet, management sets the pace. Lots of posts in this thread missing this key fact. If a project goes behind, it’s the managers fault. No one else.

>>715276198
>Your average doctor or lawyer works 60 hours a week, MINIMUM
and then retires at 50

>>715275606
>lawyer
Screwing up the law definitely impacts lives, people could die if not served justice
>software development
Yes
>IT
Being in call is not the same thing as working 80 hours a week, otherwise yes
>Infrastructure in general
Yes, people will be killed by poorly-maintained roads and sewers and such

>>715276198
>I’m not talking about law clerks
You’re 14 or a wagie either way sorry bro life will get better when you don’t depend on your parents money

>>715275826
Yes I forgot. Video game developers should be an aristocracy where they leisurely sit unexpected to ever have to work long hours for any period of time. Why? Because they are game developers dammit. Its kind of like the Starbucks workers unionizing. Its just funny.

>>715276238
>Lots of posts in this thread missing this key fact. If a project goes behind, it’s the managers fault
You can't replace an entire workforce mid-project and you can't force a lazy, incompetent dev to work better. Why do you guys think there's always so many lay offs at the end after release? They're cutting dead weight. Problem is they're most likely just going to hire more dead weight as replacement because the majority of the workforce is shit at their job.

>>715275467
why didn't the managers crack down earlier then? why not just start out crunching instead of saving it till the end?
you've never worked in the industry, or even any kind of corporate office environment, let alone been in any sort of management position (mcsupervisors don't count). and it's fucking obvious.

>>715276234
Most game workers do not have unions

>>715276234
Yea I'm sure those 20-100 people are just wrong and lazy, unlike the glorious people pusher.
Can you show us any less that you are part of the managerial class?

>>715275850
>Crashing out because people don't want to work 20 hour shifts because he has to work a manual job for 10 hour shifts
>Somehow he doesn't see the correlation between him criticizing people like that and ball kickers that do even less work and produce no goods whatsoever and earn millions for that.

>>715276513
Stop. Projecting. Your feelings about your own job. Onto others.

>>715276340
Go ask any lawyer in any major city, retard. I’m not talking about the lawyer in hour little backwoods town in Alabama that gets one case a month. Stop being stupid.

>>715276340
It has to be awesome being as straight up dumb as you dude, life must be bliss.

>>715262428 (OP)
>just work more hours bro
>the product will be better bro trust me

>>715276528
Most retarded reply in a highly retarded thread, award this child a medal

Its true sometimes you just have to get the job done, but bad planning and management, unrealistic deadlines etc can make you feel resentful of having to work so hard.

>>715276292
>>715276340
If you retards became a lawyer for 30 seconds at any medium to large sized firm you'd rope so fast.

>>715276642
Suck. A. Cock. Faggot.

>>715275606
>>being software developer isn't an emergency service. Nobody is going to die if you don't get the feature deployed by tomorrow morning before investors want to see.
You do know that this isn't the developer's issue but his boss?
He should have set the deadline with enough time left for it to be implemented, we can't just play pretend to be working all month on other shit, then the day before the meeting with the client look at the issues and have to work overtime fixing shit that's not the way they wanted or has a single usecase where it doesn't work properly
You'd knew this shit if you ever held a programming job, but again, you probably haven't worked a single day in your whole life and you're living off your parents in their basement

>>715276787
>oh no I have to use ChatGPT to write copy for me all day I’m gonna die

>>715276605
You’re rambling anon. For one, I don’t do manual labor. I work at a series B startup. Second, working manual labor might be good for a person like you because you wouldn’t be such a pussy cry baby right now.

>>715276945
>Spends several posts crying about other people being "entitled"
>B-but your the one crying!!!!
The absolute state...

>>715277056
I have only made 3 posts in this thread. I don’t think you’re replying to the person you think you are, anon.

>>715276945
Working manual labor is great because you realize that all white collar “work” is fake and then you just do that can cash in.
Complaining that any one white collar job is better than another is silly. They’re all cushy nonsense.

>>715262428 (OP)
Funny how immediately after the crunch phase went out of vogue, video games became terrible.

Being able to work hours in entertainment, art, any kind of media should be earned by working hours at a labor job first. Why should you get paid to draw and fuck off while the rest of the world has to do the heavy lifting for you?

>>715277246
2012?

crunch is irrelevant, games are shit because they're made by committee for a group of shareholders
reduce your budgets stop making movieslop and give control to people who actually play video games
it won't happen and I still won't play AAA games, not a big loss

>>715276932
Alright look retard. Management is also expected to adapt quickly to changing expectations and shit comes out of nowhere constantly. It is a law of the universe. It has nothing to do with the management themselves. You just perceive it that way. They are not sitting there scheming about how to fuck you over at the last minute. They have demands placed on them by upper management who in turn have demands placed on them and at least 50% of the time those demands come sporadically because of the constant shitstorm that they have to deal with. It is not anyone's fault (usually). It is the nature of business. It is fundamental.
And despite what people think, the increased responsibility means you usually get blamed -- doubly so when you are in that position purely by merit -- when all the other retards are unwilling or unable to complete the task. Having to get shit done at the last second IS the job for management, and the stakes are much higher.

>>715262428 (OP)
There is a deference between mandatory crunch because shareholders want mo money because they worked really hard on inheriting and investing daddys money and developers whit a passion just putting in extra work.

>>715262569
Quite the opposite you kike

>>715276941
Underage

>>715277297
They should be forced to tour skid row before they are given the job

>>715270245
Those are done at the behest of the companies themselves in an attempt to attract more to the meatgrinder.

Any retard in this thread defending crunch is ether unemployed NEET or a an Ameritard who got brainwashed by corporate media that working free overtime is good for the economy and a sure way to get a promotion (Promotion being you get to do even more work for barely more pay).

No one gets rich by working hard. In modern times anyone who got rich ether inherited money and made even more money because its easy to make more money when you already have money. Or got lucky from random BS like investing in bitcoin when it was still profitable.

>>715262428 (OP)
One, you're a retard
Two, can't you find a more recent video to bitch about?

>>715279693
You cant deny that the best video games have all been made through crunch

>>715277814
>Have a meeting with the client scheduled for weeks
>Have weeks to check if the work is what they want
>Instead they spend time doing other shit in the meantime without ever doing the single bit of QA they need
>Enter the application the day before the meeting to check if everything's alright
>There's a couple of bugs in some places
>Now the developers have to rush to fix it and leave all other tasks they had because they couldn't be bothered to check on time
>B-but it's not their fault for leaving everything to the last minute!!!
Fuck you.

>>715262428 (OP)
Crunch is the result of shit management.
Congratulations, you couldn't schedule and direct shit on a level that would allow people to get things done in a normal work week, instead you waited until the last minute and now they need to churn out barely passable slop in a week while sleeping under their desk.
>"Yes, I would like to exchange my almost competent workforce for twice their number in drunk slavs" - no sane manager ever

>>715262428 (OP)
Why is /v/ so obsessed with never blaming management. Crunch is literally mismanagement.

>>715262428 (OP)
You know whats crunch.
Being given a year to make a sequel for your main series.
And its still better than modern western slop

>>715280082
Donkey Kong '94 was made through crunch?

>I HECKERINO LOVERINO WORKING MORE FOR MY BOSS
>ONE HECKING DAY I WILL BE JUST LIKE HIM DOING HECKING IMPORTANT WORK MANAGING HECKING BUSINESS
>YES XISTER MANAGER GIVE ME MORE HECKING WORKERINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
didn't read the thread btw fuck corpos unless they can give me money then fuck corpos after i suck them dry

>>715281967
>Corpus

Nigga you don't live in cyberpunk grow up

>>715283112
I WILL slack off and drain money from your overlords

>>715281010
>Reee I'm lazy because you didn't manage me well enough!!!

>>715273775
Pretty much, not to mention the traffic in some of those places. Let's say you work at Blizzard in Irvine and live in San Clemente. In any area that didn't have absolute shit traffic you'd be looking at maybe a 15-20 drive to and from work. With traffic there during rush hour (and it's almost always rush hour in that area) you're looking at a fucking one hour commute to and from work. During crunch you'd probably basically spend the majority of each day at work, going home only to sleep for a couple of hours before going straight back to work, giving yourself an extra half hour in addition to that hour long commute to compensate for any additional traffic.

>>715262428 (OP)
crunch is a failure of management in 100% of cases

remember when people created video games because it was fun?

>>715281967
I got promoted into middle management recently and genuinely do nothing now. I have a project manager who does all the admin and analysts who do all the work. I just sign off projects once they're done and say yes or no to new ones based on how many of my guys are free. Lots of conference calls but I WFH and just lift/cycle/play vidya while waiting for the 5 minutes in the 3 hour call that are actually relevant to me.

>>715262428 (OP)
most hires are men faggot, you’re still the problem

>>715275606
>There are homeless people living in tents unable to get any job ever, maybe a minimum wage job if they are lucky.
That's absolute bullshit. Even if they were so fucked they couldn't even land a job at McDonalds there's temp agencies like People Ready which provide day labor positions with no interviews, background checks, or anything really even to fucking homeless dudes living on the streets. They're homeless and unemployed because pan handling is easier than spending a day or two hauling lumber and rebar at a construction site and then a few more days hauling boxes

>>715262428 (OP)
>Hey uh Mr Dev, the game comes out in a month and we're still in alpha
>NOOOOOOO CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH SAVE ME TWITTERSKY

>>715285770
You are so gay. Giant fag.

>>715284925
Just make a bed at the office during crunch. Treat it like a summercamp

>>715285871
Get to work devvie

>crunch is apparently an issue but every game takes 10 years to come out
how fucking bad are these managers

>>715275606
>being a lawyer is not an emergency service. Nobody is going to die if you don't work on filing overnight
>fuck up big time
>client's innocent but because of your fuck up he ends up doing 20 years in prison
>gets shanked by another inmate and dies

>>715286192
I don't have to be a dev to know your brain is the size of a peanut, don't you have some fart porn to beat off to?

>>715277814
It's almost like a core element in project management is planning ahead to compensate for any fuck ups or obstacles that might occur during a project. In fact, that shit's project management 101 and it's shit that management tends to forget.

>>715262428 (OP)
I hate commies and crunch is just a reality of working on big projects but killing your staff to make sure the arm hair physics are working correctly is fucking retarded. if modern studios were willing to simplify graphics/physics most games could be completed and shipped in much less time. The profit factor is also decreasing as we see diminishing returns in graphical quality over time.
t. guy who makes non-game software for a living

>>715271816
Just because it hasn’t happened in your job doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen elsewhere.

>>715271423
Do you do that all year round though? Or do you have burst of high activity and then plenty of downtime?

>>715288003
Considering you can make vidya games in RPGmaker, I doubt this is even needed this days.

>>715286263
it doesnt even matter if you have nigger jurors the nigga is getting off free democracy is fake and gay

>>715288169
People act like games take longer because they are "harder" to make but they barely have to code now it's all pre built assets and easy WYSIWYG software. It's easier than ever and they STILL BITCH

>>715265226
Post nose

>>715288169
Basically the guy in the right front >>715288003 should be in an English composition class making outlines for interactive-fiction in "Inform".
There's a need for that too as you point out. But this guy is too retarded to know what class to take.

>>715288331
It is always the people who work the least who bitch the most

>>715271105
Game studios are run by nepotistic retards with no management skills so you end up with shit like constant crunch culture, endless outsourcing to “save costs”, all while the games themselves are designed around maximizing profits rather than actually being good

>>715262843
They weren't good, the good games were (are) made by japs not whitey

>>715286771
I accept your concession

my real question is why the hell don’t the guys in charge of these shitty games never get fired? If you’re so incompetent as a manager that your game needs multiple delays, constant crunch sessions, a massively bloated budget and STILL sucks then your ass should be the first one to go. Yet somehow these retards seem to always fail upwards while everyone else gets layed off

>>715266686
you're probably right but holy shit I'm not reading allat.

>>715289792
>If you’re so incompetent as a manager that your game needs multiple delays, constant crunch sessions, a massively bloated budget and STILL sucks then your ass should be the first one to go
Nepotism/favoritism and no shortage of subordinates to throw under the bus.

>>715270557
>it pays off with promotions later. if not than you quit and find a company that does value your extra effort
This is such a naive outlook it makes it blatantly obvious you're an underage faggot who's never held a job. Promotions aren't always guaranteed even if you work hard. Your superior might and probably will just hog all the glory. Even if a new higher opens up they might just dismiss all your hard work and hire someone from outside the company or just give the promotion to some diversity hire for the sake of a small boost in the company's image which is becoming increasingly common. As for just finding a different job, that's extremely difficult in a job with constant crunches where your daily schedule boils down to work, sleep, work, sleep and you've got no time to in your schedule for applications or job interviews. Depending on your financial situation, simply quitting to make time for job hunting might not be doable either. You don't know when you'll land that next job and during that time that you're unemployed, you've got no fucking income.