So what was it that killed action games?

>>715748840 (OP)
Lack of interest

Its audience grew up, and the current generation of gamers play on smart phones primarily.

They're boring. Menu combat is unironically more deep, as it requires at least a little bit of thought

>>715748840 (OP)
>So what was it that killed action games?
We're still getting Ninja Gaiden this year

>>715749105
>We're still getting Ninja Gaiden this year
And the hype is pretty damm minimal.

>>715748840 (OP)
truth nuke, most people are legitimately too slow or stupid to play these games properly so they favour slower or simpler games like gow and soulslikes over adrenalynic skillful gameplay
anyone saying otherwise itt is, in the purest sense of the word, filtered

It was never a huge genre, a bit too niche. Sadly like stealth, lots of action got rolled into the big open world adventure games. If that wasn't enough action also got watered down to play easier and be less complex. These two make it hard for dedicated action to stand out and find success. Same thing with stealth, it all got watered down and combined with the big "open world" genre so the chances of a proper stealth game are much lower.

Main thing though is that its niche. It can't really sustain itself, Platinum is barely hanging in there. Team Ninja makes ARPGs with very good action mechanics. Capcom only really have DMC and that was put on the shelf while most of the DMC5 team worked on DD2.

>>715748840 (OP)
Sony with le cinematic shoulder camera games.

>>715749449
>le cinematic shoulder camera games
Something that's mostly Capcoms fault ironically

>>715749281
>truth nuke, most people are legitimately too slow or stupid to play these games properly so they favour slower or simpler games like gow and soulslikes over adrenalynic skillful gameplay
This true. I tried watching streamers play the DMC franchise years ago, and they just keep using the same damn Alastor/Rebellion combos with no pause delay at all. None of them can understand Nero's Exceed gimmick either. They just rush the game once and move on to the next. They don't even replay missions to grind for shit like Reb Orbs and Proud Souls to get new moves. Meanwhile, Vergil is like jiggling keys to them because he's purposely made to broken no matter what you do.

>>715748840 (OP)
Open world and souls likes

>>715749298
being niche is fine, as you said they always were niche but were still going well
the problem is with the death of mid budget games, which was the vast majority of these games, we barely see them anymore as vidya became more and more of a safe playing, profit driven industry. couple that with my statement above about people preferring slower, simpler games and that's why soulslikes have devoured pure action games
indies COULD have been a way to fix it like with stealth, but indie devs too are profit driven nowadays and don't want to bother with the workload associated with these games because they're lazy sons of a. thousand rodents, hence souls and metroidvanias still taking the crown even when it could have been otherwise.

>>715749281
This is a big part of it too. People need their standard control schemes. A dedicated dodge, block and parry button.

>>715749449
BamHam, Sony and Souls are the trifecta of hurting action games.

>>715749170
Because Ninja Gaiden 2 Black came out and sucked the wind out of everyone's sail with it being meh, and still primarily based off of Sigma 2.

You can't monetize it with battle passes.

>>715749672
>souls likes
I swear everyone who plays becomes incapable of playing anything else. Never should have got my brother a copy of Dark Souls 1

>>715749714
Platinum aren't heavy hitters and make fairly low budget stuff but they keep on chugging. Everyone else dilutes their games into ARPGs to chase the markets with Capcom being the exception and that may only be due to RE and MH doing so well that they can afford to take some risks. You're right though, game dev is too bloated right now.

>>715749832
True And you can't really insert a verses multiplayer mode either.

>>715749449
i fucking hate how sony got the wrong lessons from their own past games like gow and metal gear, which were cinematic games done right with a clear distinction and balance between cutscenes and gameplay while still being engaging and entertaining, and threw it all out for last of us clones
it's like they wanted gaming as a medium to make it's "leap of quality" like movies did in the mid 20th century, except they took all the wrong lessons from both their past successes and this theory and turned the industry into a clusterfuck. thank god it's ending now, at least

>>715748840 (OP)
>So what was it that killed action games?
They require reactions, reflexes, and thinking in real time at all times while in battle, something most of the gaming population would prefer to stay away from if they can help it. Think about it, it's similar to why people don't 'get' fighting games. Anything that requires you to actually understand what you're doing puts you in 'try hard' category since everything in both genres are based off you and your skills alone and you can't blame teammates or cheese the gameplay mechanics when you're rewarded depending on your overall performance.

Early NG4 Gameplay is going to be painful to watch. Most of the the time, early leakers are absolutely terrible at games.

>>715750102
>Platinum aren't heavy hitters and make fairly low budget stuff but they keep on chugging
they're on the death bed as a company. almost all key figures that were there in the heyday are gone. ninja gaiden may not even be a make or break situation, but straight up a swan song before they close for good. it's already a miracle they're doing it all things considered

>>715750493
If they are closing, it would be nice if some the Platinum guys joined Koei Tecmo.

>>715750302
Metal Gear had pretty poor gameplay:cutscene ratio though but I get your point, especially with GoW. That poor franchise.

>>715750493
Well it just further proves the point that action games aren't money makers.

>>715749721
I dont even think that's the issue. half of v was still in denial that it was reskinned sigma 2 weeks after release. the bottom line is ninja gaiden just hasn't been big since vanilla 2. arguably since black. its like unreal tournament or halo, its era has just passed by. I still like the games and will play 4 but I don't think there's any way it will sell that well. then people will debate how much damage gamepass did (even though microsoft was probably the only reason it got revived at all) then the series will die again

>>715750317
Is it even getting a physical release to begin with?

1. Action games are hard to make.
2. Dedicated audience for them are hard to please.
3. Hard sell to most people in general.

>>715750856
Yes for PS5. No for Xbox.
https://www.amazon.com/NINJA-GAIDEN-4-Standard-PlayStation%C2%AE-PlayStation/dp/B0FCJYV9DY?th=1

The need for button mashing to win. Demon Souls gave us a solution, Dark Sous improved upon that and it only got ever more solved, making every other action attempt a laughing matter.

>>715749853
Souls games should have never had a leveling system in the first place.

>>715750856
Dragon Sword isn't a real action game though. Shit is so easy even a toddler could beat it. Was a conceptually cool input scheme though, and the game did flow at the least. Just you're never going to see a game over screen.

>>715750972
Nice, thanks.

>>715750842
I dont think ninja gaiden was even big in the first place. I only ever knew about Ryu Hayabusa from DOA. NG as a series mostly flew past me because the series was mostly an Xbox thing.

Action tards hates having their feelings hurt when the Mission Results pop up and tells them they did a bad job. Then cry about depth when the combat doesn't let them juggle. You're all brainlets.

>>715748840 (OP)
They turned from being easy but fun into hard and annoying
DMC V ditched the shop green orbs, fucking bastards
And Bayo 3 is ultra annoying to play
MGR is shit and everybody just remembers the bosses and nothing else
Fuck FromSoft, we can't have action games unless they're hard and unfun

>>715748840 (OP)
>Itsuno would've rather been making Dragon's Dogma and only did DMC5 as an obligation, then left Capcom
>Ninja Gaiden killed itself with 3 and Yaiba, very few care about an NG4 now that over a decade has passed since the last
>Bayonetta is full of annoying minigames that drag down the gameplay and Bayonetta's character is off-putting to most normalfags
>God of War got rebooted into something else and sold better than ever
The genre was never big, it was basically those handful of series carrying it and most of their games only sold somewhere between 1-2 million copies.

>>715751761
>They turned from being easy but fun
Action games were only ever easy if you played them in easy mode, Normally Normal mode in a action game would be hard in a shooter.
Still more fun than rollslop

>>715751761
>DMC V ditched the shop green orbs, fucking bastards
DMC5 isn't hard at all. In fact it's lot easier than DMC3 which had much more annoying minor enemies (THE FUCKING FALLEN) and annoying boss gimmicks.

>>715748840 (OP)
Revengeance solved the genre.

>>715751845
Seems like the real issue is the devs who made those games are either retiring or getting the sack and their replacements have no interest in the genre, being instead more occupied with chasing trends.

I want Angelo Credo powers right now.

Not pure stylish action game, but it's sad seeing awesome combat in Spider-Man Web of Shadows, and then you get BamHam like game with Insomniac's Spider-Man games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjHlA4bdjc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMH0BDv20s

>>715750313
eat shit delusional shitter
fighting games are still alive dumbass
your crappy genre is just boring
fucking shithead

>>715751985
>mashing parry saved the genre

>>715748840 (OP)
NG4 is literally coming out.

>>715752221
Fighting Games are surviving, but they have become a shell of what they once were. Guilty Gear fans are crying at what happened when Strive came. It's more popular than ever, but at a great cost.

>>715752308
Considering how many souls likes are ridden with mandatory parrying, I think it's better to say Revengeance killed it.

>>715752196
>and then you get BamHam like game with Insomniac's Spider-Man games
BatHam is unfortunately easer to make and follow. I mean why memorise combos when you can just press x and occasionally y to counter?

>>715752351
It is, but it's barely being Advertised. We've only had two trailers so far, and some people doing analysis from twitter clips. It also have to deal with not having Ryu as the main protagonist, and possibly only having Dragon Sword. The game also is coming late in the PS5/Xbox Series era, which this era has been a fucking disappointment by Sony and Microsoft that way less people are buying consoles nowadays. DMC5 came out 1 year before the PS5 came out, and people very much loved the PS4.

>>715752381
Correction. Fighting games are popular to watch and talk about but 90% of people leave after the first month or dont even bother playing them to begin with.
The same is true with why dmc survived but not other action games. The dmc cast is memeable and has catchy music, like with MGR. There is something for people to talk about even without having played the games. Meanwhile what is there to talk about NG? Ryu has the same autistic personality as Eve from stellar blade while the girls are already in DOA which is another niche.

>>715749281
I dunno if it counts as "saying otherwise", but' i'd like to add the addendum to the "too slow" that the players of the original crops have also gotten old by now. if you were 15 (Born 1990) when DMC3 (Arguably the Genre Posterboy) released you are 36 now. The original audience is getting aged out whether they want it or not. Reflexes generally start to slow down around the mid 20s for context (Keyword being Start).

>>715752712
Nta but also tastes over the years gradually change. I myself am starting to lose patience with souls games and moving on more tactical melee games like bannerlord or slow paced strategy games like total war.

>>715752712
This is true. I can't pull of many crazy combos in DMC3 anymore on turbo mode. Crazy combos were the ones you had to press the melee or style button a bunch of times and then there'd be a new move afterwards.

>>715752712
new young people get on gaming all the time anon, there's no reason they wouldn't enjoy those games, and they do as seen by mgr, dmc5 and ultrakill
if anything soulslikes being all the younger audience are maketed to hinders those games more than the aging old guard

>>715753242
The problem is we're dealing with both of that. Old Guard is well, getting old, and not enough new blood are getting in and learning from the old guard how to master the games.

>DmC VI is the only entry without a Clear Time requirement
Combo MAD xisters won.........................................................................................................

>>715753242
Nah I think soulslikes are on their way out too. In a few more years people will be looking for a new trend of action games.

>>715752514
Hey now, BamHam requires you to knife dodge counter, aerial evade over shields and shock batons, disarm weapons etc. I enjoy BamHam but it definitely got big at the wrong time and took over the action world.

>>715753505
Speaking of BamHam, with the diaster that is Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League, a lot of people started playing Batman Arkham Knight again and showed it's not as bad as people were first saying.

>>715752221
Where did I say or imply fighting games were dead or dying anywhere in that post? All I did was point out how similar the complaints are. Nowhere was it stated that fighting games are dying, and I know this because I play fighting games ya paranoid dumbass.

>>715753640
The combat in that game was easily the best out of the 3 but the tank sections bloated the hell out of the game. Still looks graphically impressive to this day though.

>>715753640
Arkham Knights main issues were the lack of boss fights, overuse of the bat mobile and the botched pc port. Oh, and the Joker sub plot was retarded.
Also the Arkham knight, who could still be Jason should have secretly been under the command of Damian Wayne who wants revenge for his mom or some shit

>>715750313
>spending 1000s of hours in a fighting game to not get your shit pushed in is the same as playing something like dmc
not sure if i should laugh or cry at this statement

>>715752381
>Guilty Gear fans are crying at what happened when Strive came
stupid moron
nobody cares about +r or xrd fans
>>715752692
>90% of people leave after the first month
who cares?
you dont need a lot players to play a fighting game

>>715753640
The PC port is reasonable today, but boy was that thing a fucking stutter mess on release.

>>715753640
>people don't have taste
Who knew?

>>715753463
>when your only S rank in DMC1 was against Mundus in chapter 22
That's when I understood that the game wants you to Devil Trigger and never feel ashamed about using it. Seeing Mundus' heatlh bar deplet in like 10 hits will in DT compared to just being plain Dante was night and day.

>>715753426
i may be blunt about this but new gamers don't need to learn about old games. new gamers want their own games, it's part of building a succesful long lasting fanbase.
the problem, obviously, is that the games aren't there.
>>715752692
honest opinion, fighting games are completely different from action games in terms of gameplay let alone approachability, and the story and memeable cast is effectively what new audiences seek out the most, it also correlates with my statement above about good moviegames. unlike fightans and souls (the latter because of stubborn media tropes), this can be a strenght of action games offering a balance between the two
>>715753465
i've already seen what the new action games are and i don't like them one bit. they're building off from fucking souls and sekiro gameplay and trying to make a dmc or a god hand out of it. the end result is an awful playing amalgamation of the two that almost looks like a parody of the genre. i won't buy any of those fucking wukongs and stellar blades for thag reason

>>715754241
>they're building off from fucking souls and sekiro gameplay and trying to make a dmc or a god hand out of it
Ironic since both of those games were built of the foundations of the Resident Evil series.

>>715754425
Not just RE but 90s platformers as well. I think action games as they are in now are still in their experimental stage and trying to see what works. With games like Nioh and Khazan you can devs building up on souls difficulty while also applying much faster and aggressive pace of combat. This is also because Souls games themselves have progressively gotten faster over the years.

>>715754425
but they built their own thing, and took advantage of the innovations in tech that came out at the time
these games are just ripping off both genres for neither of their qualities and with no real innovation on their side. it's enshittification, plain and simple

>>715753826
shut the fuck up
dont compare your dying genre to fighting games you are an asshole

>>715754660
>but they built their own thing, and took advantage of the innovations in tech that came out at the time
True but for god hand, it's obvious that the tank controls, over the shoulder camera and difficulty system were outright nicked from RE4. Most likely because they were worked on by the same people and came out a year apart.
Do you think if they even made God Hand 2, it would be made on the foundations of the RE remakes?

>>715755070
possibly, but it would be even more derived from re games certainly. i would't exclude they could take inspiration from sifu and the likes

>>715754591
>Free-roam open world combat
Souls games are about as much a threat as Legend of Zelda.

>>715749650
>I tried watching streamers
That's your problem right there.

Can't wait for NG4.

>What are PlayStation's most difficult games?
>
>Hardest character action games
>
>Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty
>Returnal
>Lies of P
>Nioh 2
>Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown

https://www.playstation.com/en-ca/editorial/the-most-challenging-games-on-ps4-essential-buyers-guide/

>>715748840 (OP)
The ONLY correct answer is Soulsborne

>>715748840 (OP)
Natural progression to open worlds (the pinnacle of video game potential.)

>>715759993
You would think NG2B would make a last minute inclusion.

>>715748840 (OP)
Stellar Blade is a huge success. What are you talking about?

>>715760763
Because of the action heavy segments, surely

>>715761014
So what? Everyone bought Ninja Gaiden because you played as a femboy in a spandex suit, nobody cared about the gameplay

>>715748840 (OP)
soulslikes literally revived the action genre to the point that people are getting sick of it

>>715748840 (OP)
DMC killed itself by going full Reddit.
Ninja Gaiden has a new game coming out but there isn't too much hype for it because the peaks of the serious are trapped on Xbox

>>715748840 (OP)
The industry drama surrounding all the god fathers of the genre is what killed these games. I don’t know why more people don’t talk about this instead framing it as rollslop took over or that the games fell off.

>>715761568
>DMC killed itself by going full Reddit
DMC5 ls literally the best selling game in the series. It's on capcom that there isn't a sequel.

>>715761654
>muh sales
>muh shitsuno

>>715761687
You act like other metrics matter.

>>715748840 (OP)
stamina based parryslope-souls

>>715749281
also a ton of muhparryfag only like it because it's in everything and the window is gigantic; you don't basically die for guessing wrong

>>715748840 (OP)
Gamers' tastes changed and the budget required to make a good one exploded.

>>715749281
>truth nuke, most people are legitimately too slow or stupid to play these games properly so they favour slower or simpler games like gow and soulslikes over adrenalynic skillful gameplay
This is also true. People act like those games are superior from a gameplay perspective but they really aren't, and I don't even hate Soulslikes. People like the FEELING of being good at video games and feeling like a badass but they don't want to play a game that actually challenges you.

>>715753465
They aren’t on their way out. But what’s more likely to happen is that CAG and Souls likes will just fuse into one thing. Khazan is the blueprint for this.

>>715754241
>i've already seen what the new action games are and i don't like them one bit. they're building off from fucking souls and sekiro gameplay and trying to make a dmc or a god hand out of it. the end result is an awful playing amalgamation of the two that almost looks like a parody of the genre. i won't buy any of those fucking wukongs and stellar blades for thag reason
I couldn’t imagine being this ass heated

play ddon

>>715762362
>CAG and Souls likes will just fuse into one thing. Khazan is the blueprint for this.

Over saturated there for a bit action movie games will come back

This thread is embarrassing to read
>these games are too hard for soulsfags!!!!
No, they're not, I'm a soulsfag and DMC5 was extremely easy, most combos are pointless when you can beat the whole game spamming the same shit

>>715762870
Post footage and youtube channel, NOW.

Action games f-f-f-faAILED because we're living in an altered precognitive preconception projection of the future past reality *burp*

Can we just admit this genre is killing itself by being too strict within its defining boundaries and rejecting most other derivative games even if they are sensible evolution from retroish elements

dmc being easy on your first playthrough, so everyone who played them thought they were easy button mashers and dismissed the franchise
Here's a good example >>715762870
On harder difficulties I agree that NG, DMC, Bayo etc. are harder than soulslop because you need to actually know how the game works, you need to know your moveset, learn the more unique mechanics, etc. etc.

>>715764396
also, dmc fags in general killed action games by shitting on evey other game because you can't do hour long combos on enemies

>>715752221
modern fighting games are a joke, guilty goy 6, affirmative action 8, and slime rush 6 are all awful 50/50 mashers without neutral

Nothing. They just did the same thing RTS did and never really had their greats fade in obscurity and be replaced.
People still play NG1 or DMC3 the same way people will play AoE2 or Brood war.

>>715764351
The reason the genre is dying is just because we only get like 1 good one every 5 years.

When you think about it it's DmC VI's fault then it's DmC V's fault then it's DMC4's fault then it's DMC 3's fault then when you think about it it's DMC2's fault then when you think it's DMC1's fault you think it could be Rising Zan's fault for never getting a sequel?

>>715748840 (OP)
"Fans" who don't play the games

>>715762870
>DMC5 was extremely easy
It's next to DMC2 in difficulty. Shit is easy and not worth your time. Play something better.

>>715764351
That's why CAG gets shit all the time

>>715748840 (OP)
Platinum did

It's more of their own devs fault than the new generation of souls. It's like boomers blaming millennials or zoomers for everything or Applebee's failing when the restaurant had done poor decisions in the past before that led to closings and possible bankruptcy.

>>715752712
You people are such fucking limp-wristed dweebs. These games aren't that demanding. You don't become a punch-drunk boxer merely by turning 30.

>>715749281
>>715748840 (OP)
This isn't really true though
DMC, MGR, all popular
The issue is though, that they don't explain their mechanics that well and it's also a bit annoying to unlock abilities and then you unlock that one ability that just wrecks the game

Arcade style fighting games are no longer the norm and people would rather test skill in fps or moba games in general than some action adventure shit that didn't sell well outside of GoW or DMC.

Devil May Cry was a little niche at the time. I don't think their broken systems would translate well into other games but instead turn out to be generic God of War clones.

>>715761742

Sales are literally irrelevant. Only metric that matters is my opinion.

>>715748840 (OP)
>juggleslop

Good riddance. It was never fun beating HP sponge pinatas.

>>715748840 (OP)
Souls slop

>>715748840 (OP)
Pretty obvious.

God of War was one of the biggest games back then which spawned many clones and along with actual good games like DMC, spawned many other various takes. It was just the style at the time
Then MP games became a lot bigger and changed the landscape, then came the Souls bandwagoning.

Just the way she blows. You could ask the same questions for other previously big types of games like "extreme" sports or street racers

>>715748840 (OP)
no pvp ranked match

>>715769696
only dmc secondaries think CAGs are about combos

>>715762568
>>715762362
He's not wrong. Stellar Blade also incorporates elements of CaG. Ditto for TN games.

>>715764695
This, literally the most insufferable fanbase and it's not even a debate.

>>715772879
On /v/ the most obnoxious are TN fags thoughbeit. And the fun part is more than half of them has never played it. Like people who like to parrot deus ex or planescape in wrpg/crpg threads.

>>715749281
Nah they're just slow and boring. They need a way to parry attacks so you can actually interact and engage with the mechanics of the game instead of just praying nobody hits you. Also I beat dmc5 with Nero and didn't use his exsneed system once. The timing on that is way too tight, and it's just a boring gimmick.

>>715773036
>They need a way to parry attacks so you can actually interact and engage with the mechanics of the game instead of just praying nobody hits you
skill issue
>but I beat the easiest dmc up to date!!!
doesnt really matter, everyone knows the game is a joke difficulty wise up until dmd

>>715748840 (OP)
unironically the fact that people are playing action gacha games is hurting real action games developers

mostly because "action games" (cuhrazy) were not funded as much when publishers/investors saw that "action games" (TPS moviegame) were selling better. not to mention, a lot of the "action" devs started putting souls combat in their games as well. all you need to do is look at the god of war series to understand what happened to them. that being said, we still got a few over the years and there seems to be a slight resurgence happening. let us just hope we can keep the momentum so we get many more.

>>715749720
this is also true, bamham was another nail in the coffin.

>>715749720
bamham is fine, fun to play and got better with each game unlike soulslop, bamham clones were also not as frequent as soulslikes, which got a literal subgenre of their own

>>715775439
you are a tasteless fag.

>>715751761
>DMC V ditched the shop green orbs, fucking bastards
>gachatard
i'm honestly impressed how you wretches manage to have consistently the stupidest posts

>>715775469
you probably play slop like dmc and think you are cool

>>715773998
No dmc has ever been hard on normal difficulties though. Theres a reason they were considered boring combo sims on punching bags who dont fight back. The only hard boss in dmc 3 for example was agni and rudra.

They are hard to make. For all the ramblings about difficulty and appeal and all that, making a system that feels viscerally good on the most fundamental level is not an option for most teams. You will get a new cool game once every five years, because that's about as much as the industry can handle.

>>715748840 (OP)
Wukong sold 2 trillion copies and Stellar Blade did well enough

>>715775527
i like it when my attacks don't magnetize like i'm playing fucking lego star wars, you retarded mong.

Souls likes are just better. I've only ever played DMC5 and it's just a slog compared to kino like Nioh or Wukong.

>>715773036
>The timing on that is way too tight
Skill issue. DMC5 Exceed is easier

>>715775634
thats true, but dmc5 is the most efortless one, you can beat it without looking at the screen most of the time, dmc3, for example, was tougher, plus its easy to cheese dmc5 and revive with golden/red orbs
>t. beat both dmc3 and 5 recently
>The only hard boss in dmc 3 for example was agni and rudra
he is pretty easy too, just a little obtuse

>>715775763
it doesnt really matter if they magnetize or not when the enemies are unengaging punching bags and the game is just a boring mashfest, and you can just stinger/devil bringer to skip neutral

>>715775846
I mean in comparison to other bosses, agni and rudra was the ornstein and smough of the time. Every other boss could just be cheesed with holy water or playing safe.

Dark Souls, Ninja Gayden, DMC, DmC, GOD HAND, Yakuza, Nier Automata, Nioh, and others I can't think of off the top of my head were all kino.
Anyone saying otherwise is a faggot and a casual with shit taste

>>715775846
>even if you dont have golden orbs the game still begs you to revive using red orbs for like 10 seconds before game overing
Worst fucking part of DMCV by far

I want more games with directional combat. There's Mount & Blade, For Honor; anything else?

>>715775923
eh, I got him fairly quickly, died on vergil 3 and dog more

Miyazaki killed the Press X to Look Cool genre and we're all better off for it.

>>715776114
yeah and instead he made press x to look uncool genre...

>>715776114
Stellar Blade still exists though and sold millions.

>>715776114
>Miyazaki
>Press X to roll
>Better

>>715775904
>implying bamham enemies are any more engaging
lmao whatever, tasteless fag.

>>715775832
Ex-Act and Max-Act has the same frame data in 5, you just have half Acts and the timings themselves are slightly more natural. You can realistically Exceed through RQ Combo B in 5 whereas in 4 it's impossible because you have to deal with both the attacks being faster and that specific one going in a rising tempo.

>>715776638
dmc trannies...

People complain about rolling and parrying and whatnot, but I think the thing that truly makes Souls-like cancerous is the focus on heals.

It's the excuse of having 5-10 sippies on hand at all times that allowed devs to turn Souls-like bosses into multi-phase, non-interactive monstrosities of today. It's the healing systems that fundamentally drive a wedge between them and classic hack & slashes because they're a mechanic that was conceived for exploration-focused gameplay were you would be slowly losing resources to a variety of enemies and trap, rather than fast, on-the-moment combat testing your reactions and proficiency.

As hardcore as Souls-like players will pretend to be they're still playing games that give you a bunch of extra chances any time you fuck up. That's why the game design in Souls games feels so unsatisfying, as it's evolved in order to punish thoughtless rolling or healing... things the devs could've just removed from the game if they didn't want you to do them.

>>715777318
ng has heals and is the best action title ever made, its only kamiya and itsuno (hacks btw) that think this

>>715777591
DMC had heals until DMC5 and Kamiya's games have heals too. But them and NG's style of heals is much more limited than Souls. They're not even active healing.

>>715777591
But all DMC games had heals? They even had attack items

>>715775469
Unironically you have shit taste.

>>715776053
Urban Reign

>>715776053
PowerPuff Girls Paint the Townsville Green

>>715776053
Oblivion Remastered

>>715777674
>>715777937
they had heals, but the games were designed around no item playthrough being very doable as enemies arent particularly crazy with their movesets + semi frequent green orb drops, and those games give you a worse score for using items too
healing mostly feels like a help for casuals who just want to see the end credits really

>>715749532
Movie games all deciding to ape a decent game isn't entirely Capcom's fault.

>thinking about playing bayonetta at work all excited
>get home
>load up angel slayer
>play it and have fun
>for a bit
>keep playing and sigh heavily as I realise the system is just too repetitive
A shame really

>>715782174
Is Bayonetta worse on repeat plsythroughs? Always hear people get more and more annoyed when returning.

>>715784842
The campaign definitely is, but I switched to Angel Slayer which reignited my passion for the game, but it dulled
I think I'm personally just burnt out, because I've been playing the game fairly consistently since 2013.
If you're new, definitely do the campaign and unlock Angel Slayer, then focus on that
It's a fun game but the flaws really are rampant the more you play

>>715784842
its better and better, on max difficulty especially, but you have to learn the game to appreciate it

>>715749012
Kinda this.
I'm playing touhou right now on yuzu and i can't hit half of the buttons.
They need to design them properly.
>Be me
>Stand in a crowded bus
>Kids in front of me play codm
>No sliding
>No jumping
>No compulsive reloading
>No quickscoping
>No clawgrip
I grinded to master on codm in 3 days, I thought it was filled with bots. Indeed it was just the average player.
Getting to a good level on mobile is very difficult because it doesn't feel natural.

>>715784921
>fairly consistently since 2013.
Understandable. Over a decade long time for one game.

Another thing to keep in mind is I don't think you'll ever find a perfect game, you'll just have to find what flaws you can accept and what's too much
Dare I say like with people

>>715748840 (OP)
Soulslikes and too niche

>>715753901
>Arkham Knights main issues were the lack of boss fights
And that the boss fights that were there were bad, arguably even some of the worst in the series.
This was ironic since the previous game Arkham Origins, which at that point was cemented by most as being the worst game arguably has the best boss fights in the series.

>>715760763
Stellar Blade has a lot more Souls DNA than Action DNA.

I think a defining factor is also nuGod of War.
God of War dropping the arcadey action controls of the original series and being The Last of Us-ified and being rewarded for it was a massive blow to action games.

>>715751761
>character action thread
>FUCK FROMSOFT
RENT
FUCKING
FREE

>/v/ thinks From only made Souls
Sick of /v/s ignorance

>>715777591
>ng has heals
>you carry less healing items in 2
>there is no healing items in 3
>you are left with inferior health recovery options in 3 (sob, meditation, ninpo except giga inferno)
Mhm

>>715785621
>snoytard tries to snuck his qtefest into a action game thread
Cute

>>715785797
Another factor is action game fans like you being retarded tribalists and lacking any sort of leveled and nuanced comprehension

>>715785797
He isn't wrong. nuGoW was infinitely more popular and successful than all the other GoWs combined after it dropped the CaG gameplay.
I guess to most people, this type of gameplay just feels cheap and corny. Like watching chinese martial arts feels. It's too overtly flashy. Like people who can't stand DBZ fights back in the day.

>>715785621
WE *CLAP* MUST *CLAP* BE *CLAP* BETTER *CLAP* MEN *CLAP*

>>715785363
your shitty genre killed itself

>>715785859
>subhuman zoomer unironically believes that gow has to do anything with action games
Square
>>715785872
>old gow
>cag
Consider suicide

>>715748840 (OP)
>CAG games in 2025

>>715786016
Was it not? It was literally a clone of DMC. Every other action game back in the mid to late 2000s was a CaG like Darksiders 2 and Dante's Inferno. There were so much of them they became synonymous with cheap shovelware games, only barely tolerable amongst western journalists compared to musous which got heavily demonized that until today nobody respects these games as a subgenre

>>715786097
No it wasn't
>it was literally a cline of DMC
The absolute state.

>cag
The fuck is a cag? The games are called stylish action

>>715786195
they're called shovelware bruh

>>715786016
Proving my point, thank you!

>>715786195
Stylish HARD action
Lurk more, newfag

>>715786178
If it wasn't clone of DMC than what was GoW inspired of by then? Because before DMC, fast paced action games were you performed combos weren't a thing at all.

>>715786312
>farts and runs away
Gotcha.

>>715786016
dmc mongoloids like you is the reason the genre is dead and sucks

making a GOOD action game is something only a handful of devs have ever pulled off(look at all the garbage square enix has been pumping out)
and the audience for the genre is relatively small, "normal" gamer people consider them hard(which compared to 90% of megapopular games they are) and are borderline incapable of engaging with the systems properly instead just defaulting to spamming the 3 hit combo over and over like its dynasty warriors

>>715786381
>game 2 is inspired by game 1
>therefore game 2 is the clone of a game 1
Impressive mental gymnastics
Do you consider 00s Prince Of Persia games to be character action?

I really like Vanquish but what the FUCK was Mikami thinking with that sniper section

>>715786410
>gowcuck acting tough
Find a strong branch, find a thick rope and neck yourself, subhuman.

>>715786503
Whenever I see Shahdee I have to J-action off

>>715786541
I didnt even play gow, you are just a retarded """cag""" nigger, honestly, you deserve everything you got

>>715748840 (OP)
Peaked too early.

>>715786481
>audience for the genre is relatively small
I believe this but why does DMC5 sell the way it did and NG historically hasn't? Maybe NG4 sale charts will give interesting info on a returning action series.

Souls games. They mandated all combat to be slow and heavy, with stamina bars to limit you even further

>>715786601
>projection
Concession accepted.

Idk why actionfags pin the blame on Fromsoftware especially dmctards when they refuse to be self aware and take accountability.

>>715786381
ninja gaiden
onimusha
jackie chan stunt master
dynamite cop
zombie revenge
alien vs predator arcade
the predator arcade
simpsons arcade
etc

dmc wasnt the first of its kind

>>715766168
This. DMC3 holds up as the gold standard for action, though not without flaws. Bayonetta was mediocre to bad for the entire run. Platinum's only truly inspired action game after that was Astral Chain. Everything else was either hot ass with a cult following or a game in another franchise with good enough combat carried by superior writing (MGR and Automata)

>>715786735
Stamina bar is older than souls. Monster Hunter popularized it before you were born.

>>715786785
LOL
Imagine getting filtered this fucking hard

>>715786746
because those retards are more tribal than niggers just look at this thread

>>715786715
DMC is the posterboy for the genre and actually gets advertising
kind of like final fantasy but less depressing

>>715786746
>>715786864
>falseflag
Embarrassing

>>715786785
>DMC3 holds up as the gold standard for action
dmc will never be truly good because of its uninspired enemy designs (literally a bunch of jobbers with one attack and one gimmick), bayo and ng mog

>>715748840 (OP)
its developers making beat em ups, but bad

>>715786785
all they do is copy and paste the same lame parryslop formula, thank god it's coming to ninja gaiden. i was having too much fun with the series

>>715786746
It's more NGfags upset about Nioh existing or Niohfags throwing shit as the ungrateful and self loathing mutt child.

>>715786749
None of those played remotely like dmc and you know it. NG in particular brags so much about how the game isn't like DMC because it doesn't focus on you sandbagging enemies.
>>715786503
>Do you consider 00s Prince Of Persia games to be character action?
Honestly yes. Any game that had flashy spectacle combat where you controlled a character was a CaG for me. It was the most popular template for action games in the 2000s just like how everybody labels every single action game nowadays as a soulslike. And before than, they were bamham clones.

>>715787030
What are you talking about
Counter attacks through a block button have been an integral part of ng combat since ng1

>>715787198
>None of those played remotely like dmc
*nu dmc
dmc 1 and 3 are close enough

I've had my doubts for ages, but with the release of Stellar Blade and Dark Ages, I can now fully confirm that at least 99% of /v/ literally does not play games

>>715787198
>None of those played remotely like dmc and you know it
you stated
>Because before DMC, fast paced action games were you performed combos weren't a thing at all.
those games i mentioned have combos and most of them were as fast if not faster than dmc1

>>715786749
Ahem. Forgot someone...

>>715787249
>dmc 1 and 3 are close enough
>ng
Gtfo, retard.

>>715787203
no

>>715787364
basically included with
>etc
theres too many to name

>>715787352
NG has little to no combos, at least in the same vein as OG GoW or DmC though.
Also that meme jackie chan game is a 3d beat em up. The fun in it was the interactable objects that you could use as weapons.

>>715787449
>NG has little to no combos
thanks for agreeing with me that it has combos
>Also that meme jackie chan game is a 3d beat em up
beat em up games are considered action games

>>715786715
DMC has a legacy, great character designs, great characters, memorable lines and scenes, fun gameplay, great OSTs, good designs for the enemies and locations.

>>715786381
>what was GoW inspired of by then?
Directly gameplaywise: bujingai, Ps2 rygar, dororo, zelda series, ninja gaiden. From dmc it only stole orbs and the walls that stop you from preceding further.

>>715787365
dmc 1 and 3 are closer to ng than dmc 5

>>715748840 (OP)
maybe the fact that these games offer literally nothing else but the combat itself because everything else suck ass?

>>715788618
AWOOGA

>>715788502
oni and shinobi too
in fact you could say dmc stole onis shtick which was melee combat with guns

THE CLERIC USES THE GUN AS A TOTAL WEAPON

>>715788618
based

>>715788618
brapsniff

>>715788707
No
See>>715787364

>>715789095
yeah and you can also say oni stole rising zan's shtick which stole ideas off of ____ repeat ad naseum
the fact that the other faggot hasnt responded yet means he knows his low effort troll argument got blown the fuck out

>>715785797
>qtefest into a action game thread
But enough about God Hand

>>715787263
>99% of /v/ literally does not play games
Correct

>>715748840 (OP)
>what killed action games
unironically the same which made fighting games have modern/simple controsl. Different inputs to make a combo scare normies.
Why try to learn a combo with several inputs when you can do the same wacky combo with 1 click in "insert gacha game here"?

>>715748840 (OP)
If you've played one you have played them all. Its gets boring after a while.

I play DMC games on KB+M

>>715748840 (OP)
Peaked with DMC.

>>715791493
same, but every game

>>715748840 (OP)
God I need them both carnally

>>715791493
freak

>>715791620
Almost same but for certain games I prefer controller
Mostly racan (cause you actually need the analog input there) and 2D platformers (just more comfortable than WASDing for hours on end)

>>715748840 (OP)
They were never popular in the first place. People only cling on to DMC because it's an easy game but you get to pretend that it's hard and act like you're super hardcore for playing this super easy game

>>715761568
What's reddit about DMCV

>>715791761
So just like Ninja Gaiden

>>715791825
Cmon anon. You know.

>>715792063
You can actually die to grunts in NG even on normal though

Hidetaka Miyazaki

After having played every single Devil May Cry game, I am convinced the series is aimed towards stupid people. Everything about them is fundamentally retarded.

>>715792095
If you're blind, retarded and crippled maybe

>>715792118
>>715792063

>>715786715
One has Vergil one doesn't

>>715748840 (OP)
They're too hard to properly make for small dev teams (need a lot of good animation work to feel good which translates to a lot of man-hours which smaller studios simply don't have) and not profitable enough for large studios.

yep, thats the best one

>>715751742
soulstice is fucking garbage tho. every mission feels the same, every weapon plays exactly the same except for maybe 1 move, enemies have roughly 5 times the amount of HP they should have, which kinda forces you to use the one weapon they are weak against, lest every encounter take 45 minutes (with the supereffective weapon is still takes 30)

>>715792394
The best line is either "Well I want yours too" or "Do you think somewhere out there even a devil may cry"

I liked DMC5
I also dressed my hunter up as Dante in MHW

>>715792405
>every weapon plays exactly the same
So why are you mad that you have to use the weapon they're weak to, then

>>715791761
>They were never popular in the first place.
Phantom blade zero is going to be relatively popular
https://youtu.be/EZr1HXkEahs?si=L_m5atdDoOpNeREC

>>715792394
why is vergil so funny

>>715792394
https://www.reddit.com/r/DevilMayCry/comments/1m2y6do/whats_the_best_style_for_doing_stylish_combos_in/

>>715792453
because i don't even get to enjoy the one unique move the other weapons have if i'm forced to use this specific one.

wtf is cag? another retarded name for action games?

>>715748840 (OP)
They've been replaced by gachas.
Why?
The average zoomer retard doesn't want to put in any effort into learning a game and its mechanics.
He'd play something like Genshit or WuWa where you just need to press 1-2 buttons and watch the screen explode in fancy sword slashes and particle effects and that seems impressive to him.
Meanwhile if he played DMC and just mashed 2 buttons he'd get that famous .webm of Nero just swatting at the air with the basic sword combo. This won't look cool to him.
It doesn't matter that something like DMC gives you a looooot more control over your characters and the freedom to be as cool or as boring as you want. The zoomer retard just wants to turn off his brain and mash the 2 buttons and watch the pretty explosions.

>>715792668
>another retarded name for action games?
pretty much

>>715792668
Controlled Attack Games, because you control when and how your character attacks

>>715792668
character action game

>>715792694
>that famous .webm of Nero
Post it

Someday I hope to bring Acrion Games like Devil May Cry and No More Heroes back. I've got a big enough cast already lmao
https://litter.catbox.moe/1u7j2x0f6hjs03o9.png

>Character Action Game
>describes every action game where you play a character
>Spectacle Fighter
>describes games centered around fighting which becomes a spectacle
Which way white man?

>>715791825
What isn't?

>>715793020
hack & slash

>>715748840 (OP)
You posted it. DMC5 is one of the worst games ever made and is one of the reasons Itsuno got fired.

It was me, sorry guys I killed them

>>715793093
>inb4 >AI

>>715748840 (OP)
AAA games in general are dead now. Action games are still fun though.

Hi-Fi Rush was widely popular and is in fact actually good

>>715749532
RE4 is arcade, not cinematic.

>>715792694
The average zoomer is pulling of crazier shit in fortnite with it's building than most cag players who spam the same two combos

>>715793131
I liked it

>>715792937
really cool, hope you thought out the gameplay too
can you show other concept art too?

>>715793163
NG and DMC fall under those descriptors.

>>715792920
I don't have it on hand that's why I named it instead of just posting it.

>>715793020
J-Action is vague yet encompassing enough to actually work imo

>>715792937
Keep it up anon

>>715793263
Arcade are cinematic. Modern walkie-talkie segments are inspired by half life and other stuff that tried to merge cutscenes with real time gameplay.

I have a problem with this genre, I might even go so far as to say a problem with combat in games in general, in that at high levels the enemies don't exist because you can stun or whatever them before they're even a threat, killing them asap before they have a chance
Fighting games fell into this too and that's when I got out, when the game devolved into making sure the enemy doesn't act
Yugioh too

>>715793308
Currently I'm putting gameplay stuff last (I'm doing everything by myself and I'm awful with trying to learn programming, I'd rather not get ahead of myself and end up like yandev or something, y'know?), but I have a full plot, a cyberpunk world (the genre, not the game/anime: it is surprisingly becoming more difficult to convey tha tto people these days), and a cast of 40-ish characters including but not limited to
>a thick thighed latina cyborg with a chainsaw arm (pictured)
>tall alien women
>war twink
>psycho cripple kpop girl
>scarred milk
I mainly post my sheets and plot stuff on places like pixiv, twitter, YouTube and all that.
Shit's gonna be ULTRA slow, but I'd rather not rush things or get ahead of myself.

Sorry for the blogpost lol

>>715793689
No latina would ever be named Sabrina
The designs are cute but too derivative

>>715793648
make enemies more reactive and capable of fighting back meaningfully
i'm pretty sure too that a real ai could beat your ass up brutally like those assfaggots bots do

>>715793648
Consequences of the genre using bmup enemy design but without any of the stuff that makes them hard, like enemy count/screen size/enemy aggression.

>>715749281
>most people are too slow and stupid to play games that have designated shitter difficulties
??? what fucking retarded revisionism is this

>>715793757
I get what you mean, yeah.
Obviously thus isnt gonna be THE final design, currently I'm using koikatsu to realise my character designs because I can't use my.hands to.draw anymore and holy SHIT Blender is not fun to try to get a grasp of, especially with how bland and complicated it is to a 'tismo like me.

Any character design feedback/suggestions are welcome, of course.

>>715751102
you might be right. I think the series was pretty well known by the 360 era but that doesn't mean too many people actually played it. most people knew it from doa or from the halo armor

>10 minute opening "cinematic"
>player walks around tiny area
>fights a couple gimped enemies
>using limited skills
>quicktime event
>5 minute cutscene
>walk down hall
>take out couple jobbers
>boss room
>another cringe cutscene
>boss
>final blow on boss requires QTE
>cutscene for boss final blow
>cutscene to introduce next level
>wander 10ft into next level
>cutscene
>cutscene
>cinematic
>cutscene
Where's my damn action, action game genre?! Where's my damn action?!

>>715794250
Don't each game barely pass 1 million sales?

>>715793689
you'd better put some thought about that man, even sketching up the general controls and gameplay mechanics alongside the movesets will come in handy later on
take your time with learning how to program too, these games need rigorous development to be enjoyable after all. and besides, you've already done way more than i (and the vast majority of anons itt) have by now
keep up the good work anon, godspeed and hope we'll be able to play your cyborg latina one day

>>715794370
I'll do my best anon, thank you!

>>715748840 (OP)
nothing?
DMC5, bayonetta 3, hifi rush
isn't there a new onimusha and ninja gaiden coming out

GOTTA LET IT OUT
GOTTA LET IT OUT

>>715794797
>bayonetta 3
tranny game

>>715794797
>DMC5
5+ years old already
>Bayonetta 3
Pretty much killed its series
>Hi-fi rush
Flopped and Microshit had to close down the studio
>Onimusha
Sekiro-like parry slop now
>New ninja gaiden
That thing has negative hype, it's gonna sell 1000 copies at best

DMC5 juggle shit and Fromslop games

>>715795008
Pick a side faglord

>>715749281
Why do third world ESLs love “truth nuke” so much? It’s literally ALWAYS the most ESL posts imaginable

This is literally the only subgenre/genre where fans can't decide what to call it. Even immersive sim fags have learned to settle what to call their games.

>>715795397
>search action games

>>715793689
>a thick thighed latina cyborg with a chainsaw arm (pictured)
I need this. She cute and must be protected. Please don't cut her from the cast.

>>715792063
No NG is actually a hard game, it actually takes effort. DMC by comparison is a game for toddlers, anyone can clear DMC. And then they get to pretend online

>>715795993
Oh she's DEFINITELY staying.
https://litter.catbox.moe/09u6wyqakz1saqw2.mp4

>>715796724
Sold

>>715794969
>Sekiro-like parry slop now
kys secondary

>>715799379
Anons calling Onimusha a Sekiro like has been funny to see ever since the reveal lol

>>715799379
Just watch the latest trailer they showed and tell me they're not trying to be the next Sekiro

>>715793020
Literally nobody calls them spectacle fighters. They've been called action games for decades now, tf you smokin?

>see Onimusha trailer
>no Jean Reno
???

Well at least in DMCs case it is because
>tell me what to do
is easier to approach than
>let me choose what to do

It isn't just something designed to go through, consume, and move at the next one. It takes genuine interest to enjoy the game to its full extent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnG79mJo0zs

>>715800247
>Literally nobody calls them spectacle fighters.
yea, cause people insist on calling them "character action games"

>>715800682
>Ooooh I'm voooiding the passive sandbags, look at me donguri bros
Cringe

Some enemies in ng2 are so tiresome, like van gelfs, werewolfs, and other big faggots

>>715792937
>anime
already lost 90% of your potential customers
>woman
there goes another 90% of whats left
congratz, you wasted your time

>>715801080
actual unironic faggot

>>715793515
I will never understand how 5 dante got so popular. Dude sucks

>>715800813
It's a meme term. No one uses it unironically. Right?

>>715748840 (OP)
niggers, faggots and jews.

>>715801208
This.

>>715800934
>ooh I have free will to experiment with 100+ moves that that game gives me
vs
>press button to dodge, press button to attack, increase player level, repeat, play credits

>>715801484
>press button to dodge, press button to attack, increase player level, repeat, play credits
fuck yeah

>>715801484
>braindead musou
vs
>competent ai
Hmmm

>>715801678
the only games with competent AI is ninja gaiden, god hand, spike/slash out, and 2d bmups, the rest of the industry is a joke

>>715748840 (OP)
Zoomers are shit at video games.

>>715801896
Correct

>>715801678
Is making music braindead too now because it doesn't throw punches at you and demand you to press the designated key? It's really just a matter of skill expression vs going down a path.

Never did I say that it is bad, even. I just said that it is what it is. And it's the type of games that are easier to approach, people like and buy them more, so they get made. Because there's already instructions how to play and the game is programmed to congrulate you when you follow it.

>>715748840 (OP)
Death of arcades, birth of home gaming.
Developers don't have to care about replayability anymore, because once you buy their game, they won.

>>715793269
>The average zoomer is pulling of crazier shit in fortnite with it's building than most cag players
lmao no they aren't
maybe like 1% of them are, but most are just barely functional as far as brain activity goes
but go ahead and post your cherrypicked webms if it will make you feel better

>>715802210
>Developers don't have to care about replayability anymore
It's the opposite, they "have to" make it as long and bloated as possible.

>>715802181
A good action game doesn't fall into the trap of always having an obvious correct solution in a situation. The ambiguity of choices is what creates depth.

>>715802475
>It's the opposite, they "have to" make it as long and bloated as possible.
That's not the opposite at all. Nobody wants to replay a game that's long and bloated, but retards like you will assume it's a great game because your one and only playthrough was long and thus justified the price.

>>715749449
/thread

>>715802449
I've never played Fortnite but from just seeing the webms some retard spams sometimes it seems like you simply mash the build button and it auto builds you platforms to hide behind

>>715802181
Making music isn't a competition between you and the notes like an action game is between you and the enemies. The goal of an enemy is to kill you, if they're completely inept at it then it's a failure of game design.

>>715792694
>the average zoomer is actually really rich whale who funds all these gambling games and they have PC with RTX 5090 and play movie slop in 4K and blabalbalbaa
No. It's 30 year olds with too much income and no family. This is such a retarded post from you.

>>715802806
Yeah I was just talking about DMC. In DMC the enemies definitely aren't big threat if you're proficient at the game.

>>715802754
pretty much, they spam ramps and walls, but because it's "fast" he assumes it's mechanically complex
kinda ironic coming from somebody who says that cag players spam two combos

>>715764786
>guilty goy 6
>are all awful 50/50 mashers without neutral
guilty gears posers are so pathetic
almost every guilty gear character is a gorilla
why are you stupid?

>>715764796
>AoE2
age of empires 2 has over 20000 players
nobody cares about dmc or ninja gayden

>>715803032
meant to say guilty goy soive, idk why I put 6 there

>>715802612
>like you
????I mainly play arcade games
>will assume it's a great game because your one and only playthrough was long and thus justified the price.
Yes dumbass that's what I was alluding to by using quotation marks. The casual market in general will favour those practices.

>>715802956
I mean it is mechanically complex to the point where they had to add a no build mode for people who couldn't keep up mechanically. It's dumb to deny that pvp games in general aren't more complex than action games

everyone just conviniently ignoring zenless zone zero

>>715803350
Literal mobile game.

>>715803350
I never understood why people pretend the ZZZ is even remotely comparable to real action games like DMC.
The combos in that game are laughably simple by comparison.

>>715802475
NTA but that's because they can't work with replayability. Most people only play through a game once. Look at the achievements for action games and you'll see the "clear the game once" achievement is probably 20-30% and the "clear the game twice" achievement is like 5%.
A game with a 10 hour playthrough time that you're meant to play through 3 times is considered less content than a game with a single, 30 hour playthrough.
A big problem is that the games are designed for multiple playthroughs with how normal mode is meant to be a tutorial for the combat systems and enemies and then on the higher difficulties it tests you. What action games probably need to do is find some way to drive normalfag players to beat the game on New Game+, but a crapload of people never play anything after credits roll.
Pic related, Assault Spy is a game almost exclusively played by action game fans but even then the achievements show that of the people who beat the Asaru campaign, only two of them actually played the entire second campaign with a different character, a different story content and extra stages at the end. Of course, even fewer beat Hard and Extreme modes.

>https://x.com/TeamNINJAStudio/status/1946223436033863958
HOLY FLIPPING SHIT THE WEAPON SWITCHING IS OFFICIALLY IN! I WON I WON I WON!

>>715803236
you are still a poser
dumbass
>>715803337
i used to play gunz the duel and fortnite the most similar game to gunz the duel
gunz the duel requires more skill than any hack n slash game

>>715803350
Literally who

>>715803459
>The combos in that game are laughably simple
if you want hard combos then play king of fighters 13 or kof 2002um not fucking dmc

>>715803337
>I mean it is mechanically complex
wrong it's pressing like 3 buttons
> to the point where they had to add a no build mode
which I already pointed out is due to the majority of br players being braindead
>It's dumb to deny that pvp games in general aren't more complex than action games
they aren't, in fact they're designed to be as mechanically simple as possible to attract the most people and the only complexity comes from the players themselves

>>715803702
I don't want hard combos but I do want more than just button mashing.

>>715803595
air combos in ng? and this ugly? this is a joke, I am not buying this low effort slop

>>715803609
cope I guess

>>715803350
I wonder why...

>>715748840 (OP)
Some suit:
"Why put effort in to your game, when you can just have players pay for cosmetics and characters instead?"

>>715803459
We had the same with Genshin when it came out. Actually ended up playing it and it was so cringe and disappointing.

>>715803824
>mechanically simple
shut the fuck up
counter strike recoil and spray patterns are too much for most 4chan users
you are an idiot

>>715803350
Isn't the standard chinkslop mobile game basically
>take Senran Kagura
>remove 90% of the enemies
>add more overly obstructive hitsparks that make it impossible to see the animations
>throw a billion numbers on screen
>make all the combo lines accessible by mashing one button
>add more flashing parry lights
>add gear you need to grind for
>reduce stage length to ~40 seconds

>>715803824
You end up describing cags here funnily, i don't really agree with the idea that they're all designed to be as simple as possible since pretty much every big pvp game out now requires you to play it like a job due to their high skill ceilings

>>715804326
X, X, X, X, X into RT + X, X, X, X, X? I sleep.

>>715785621
The new GoW games are still pretty action packed and even difficult if played on the God of War difficulty setting, the problem with their gameplay is mainly super spongey enemies making fights drag out and also having quite limited movesets (light and heavy melee attack with a dozen or so combo moves, light and heavy ranged attack, then light and heavy runic attack). But they have a pretty good and functional typical gameplay flow. The combat is a lot more active and well paced than Souls games as Kratos can be a lot more aggressive and lock down enemies with attacks (more similar to Nioh games in that regard), while still needing to manage space and control the aggression of enemies using multiple defensive methods (can't just dodge everything, can't just block everything) and the game does a good job of actually balancing risk and reward. If you defend enemy attacks well, you are guaranteed a chance to attack them. If you attack well and use your resources (rune attacks, sparta rage, talisman abilities) then you can lock down enemies very well. It's not a super deep combat system but it is very consistent, allows for builds and skill expression, and is bug-free.

>>715803976
>cope I guess
fuck off

>>715748840 (OP)
Elden ring exists.

>>715749853
Nigger shit like dmc or kingdom hearts are easy as fuck games.
Souls game beat the shit out if then in terms of difficulty

>Ninja Gaiden 4 coming out this year
>games like Sifu doing well in the indie scene
>Capcom almost certainly going to make another DMC in the next couple of years, even if it's a remake
explain how they were killed.

>>715804824
The ratio of people who Plat the average Souls game is almost always higher than the people who clear an action game on the highest difficulty.

>>715804824
not that anon but Souls games are only ever difficult due to knowledge checks in the early games like Demon's Souls, DS1-2, then later games like DS3 and Elden Ring are only ever difficult because the player character is by far the lamest and least capable character in the game, having to watch enemies with insane movesets go through their 12 hit strings while you have 2 moves (roll and r1)

>>715803464
Most people nowadays think games are something to be consumed rather than enjoyed. It really is that simple. They will never care for extra content outside their first playthrough, unless they are the type to scream about how they cant 100% a game right from the get go. they still wont play it twice even if they bitch about it

>>715764396
DMC sucks cause you have to unlike the highest difficulty by playing the games multiple times.
Who the fuck does that to finally have fun?

>>715805051
The decision to have one difficulty is the reason for this, the average casual is forced to actually learn and utilize everything the game has to offer, if action games didn't have retarded difficulty options the rates would be the same.

>>715804326
>1hko counter
>half the webm is a dude flying in the air
holy shit this looks fucking bad

>>715748840 (OP)
they are too precise with weird challenge/difficulty.
Like in dmc5 it's beautiful if you can juggle an enemy forever while weapon swapping but I think normies need a bit more time. Oh I'm comboing this guy! Wait crap that attack knocked him back.. (There's a FUCK ton of moves that just knock enemies back for no reason and it's expected you will know the exact move needed to follow up).
But anyway whats the reward anyway? Bosses fight way different to trash mobs, and trash mobs are boring lifeless retards so being le combo god is only satisfying for the visual spectacle, not for performance. It's the equivalent of rapping or playing guitar fast but the actual sounds you are producing sound like ass so what's the point.
tl;dr it's autistically hard and there is zero reason in game besides the letters that pop up to actually git gud.

>>715748840 (OP)
Chasing ranks

DMC has terrible enemies design and everyone is a damage sponge.
Which is why i only play KH and dark souls.

Since CAGs games are all Sonic spin-offs. What's truly missing is good platforming level design. If you think brainlet combos have anything to do with the genre then kys.

>>715805262
?what. What are some action games that became worse because ranks?

>>715805338
Fuck you.

>>715804853
NG4 is going to be very divisive, at least among NG fans. Sifu is pretty much the only notable indie action game. DMC being banished to remake purgatory is a grim direction and is still years away, we might even be seeing more time between 5 and whatever comes next than 4 and the reboot.

>>715805306
I still find it crazy that the disney / square enix collab game has genuine difficulty in critical mode. Critical mode kh2 and kh3 (espec data org) is harder than anything in dmc5.

>>715805202
It's not hard it's just not engaging on easy/normal mode which these games insist on starting you with, most people get bored and drop the game since they're never forced to actually learn anything

>>715804853
>next couple of years
ÆÜGH.
Back in my days games actually have been made in 2...3-4 years max. Now most AAA designers got retarded while the devs got awfully distracted or lazy and it seems like the majority of talented people left this industry for good.

>>715805404
>King's Field segment
Might be the best part of the game

>>715805442
>we might even be seeing more time between 5 and whatever comes next than 4 and the reboot
that is already true for nearly 2 years now

>>715805442
They're 100% going to remake dmc1 and it's gonna be a nuclear shitshow

>>715805707
>3tards pretend to give a sh*t about 1
Cry me a river nig nog

>>715805707
I can't wait for all the huge Devil May Cry fans to play Devil May Cry for the first time

>>715805486
Yeah but even dante must die it's just massive amounts of damage and hp inflation but the enemies are the exact same retards. And the 'hard' one are just annoying "Play my way!" fags like the invisible guy Fury. Durr you get one hit then I vanish, then one hit and then I vanish!
I am not even hating on Fury just cant recall other enemies that made me feel that way. Fury is fine when you figure it out (nuke them when they are able to be hit and ignore drawn out combos). Which typing it out seems counter intuitive to the game actually

>>715805707
>>715805947
>>715805821
Man I actually got dmc1 on release week as a 12 year old. I remember it scared the shit out of me. I've played every single one since and still can't combo for the life of me. I can barely enemy step or whatever. But they're fun. I always wished I was a combo demon though but I just aint that guy.

>NG 4 finally gets a fullblown weapon switching
>DMC 1 remake will let you seamlessly swap between the sword & gauntlet and the guns (and it will have more than 1 enemy type at a time)
eating good

>>715748840 (OP)
Devs just stopped making them because they moved on to other things.

>>715806057
Yeah.........I feel you.............fren.......some of us..........are like.......just on..........a different........vibe is all........ya know???????? Wholesome...........................

>>715805575
Fuck...

>>715805707
Its going to be weird, that's for sure. Free camera, multiple enemy types in combat encounters, Dante playing like 5 but with less weapons and guns. They'll probably add in a Trish boss and playable character, maybe even a "what if" DLC of Vergil as the MC and Dante as Nelo.

>>715805959
DMD always makes enemies noticeably more aggressive and adds the DT mechanic which adds layers of complexity.
In DMC3 DMD all enemies got heightened stun bars which actually is a point that a lot of people who think the games are meant to be combo simulators is wrong because DMD in 3 actually removes your ability to freely combo, requiring deeper knowledge of system mechanics to do it.
Plus the way DMC3 has enemies pop DT based on other enemies dying while they're active forces you to rethink fights since fighting them one at a time punishes you due to the immense defense boost DT gives, but you are meant to alleviate that by spreading out your damage. It makes the difficulty more based on your ability to manage multiple enemies at once which is what the game was designed around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y18S8_D21i4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQXl4QP0Rrg

idk why dmc3 combos are way more satisfying than the autism that dmc4 and dmc5 became.
They don't look nearly as spastic even if the skill required is similar, barring inertia hyperautism from dmc4. In a way it's more grounded than seeing Dante bust out a motorcycle. Also I am pretty sure enemies held in place longer, the hitstun felt more impactful. So it was way chiller to just do what you wanted in a combo and not have the enemy plummet to Earth. Yet air time was harder to get because enemy stepping was harder and less teleport spam and "get over here" moves.

>>715806135
>Vortex doesn't one-shot anymore & just another combo multiplier
KINO KINO KINO KINO KINO KINO!!!!!! Finally DMC will require skill

>>715806315
cringe

>>715803464
See this? NuGow won. DSP won. Puzzle niggas lost.

>>715804560
>it is very consistent
The worse thing about the nuGoW games is how inconsistent it is because of the dumb RPG elements and the dogshit level geometry where you can't tell what's actually part of the battlefield or just a piece of scenery. Freeze an enemy and then try to kick them off a ledge? Launch an enemy and try to pin them on the wall? lol no, they just bounce off because that isn't a designated spot where it works.

>>715806596
*Slaps my nuts to your cheek*

bringe

>>715805540
We waited like ten years for DMCV

>>715807120
6 years niggy

Is there a reason we just disqualify every "soulslike" from counting as an action game? Some of them even have combo systems and stuff.

>>715807465
No Mission Results. No Character Action.
Go back to r*dd*t

>>715807465
They are action games, only retards try and say otherwise. They just aren't very good because the combat in all of them is bad.

>>715807465
Because soulslikes are played by waiting until a boss finishes doing a 30 hit combo and then hitting them once.
It's the opposite of an action game.

>>715807465
>an action game?
Anon, the creators themselves call them as ACTION RPGs

>>715807465
Nobody has ever said Souls likes/clones aren't action games

>>715807632
Nooooooo I don't want to optimize pathfinding & routing I just wanna STYLE!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>715807685
The combat in DMC1 is pretty weak

>>715807465
>closer to action rpgs than character action
>already made a genre for themselves called soulslike

>>715807931
So the genre is dead, how? There's about eight of those every year. Stellar Blade, Wukong, Star Wars: Jedi, Khazan...

NG4's air combos might be the ugliest thing I've ever seen. There's no gravity, no weight, nothing. He's just staying in the air pressing buttons and switching weapons with the floatiest fucking animations I've ever seen. NG4 will be beyond awful, though that was always obvious.

>>715808051
post a webm of you slash cancelling then lil nigga

>>715808051
It holds up pretty well. Mundus is still the hardest final boss in the series.

>>715808051
For 2001 standards DMC1 was lightyears ahead of the competition

>>715808147
You think I'm gonna make a webm, just to win an interaction on 4chan?

>>715804326
>Parry instant kill
>6 second of juggling
I'm shidding and crying

>>715808354
I accept your concession CUHRAYZEEEEEEEtard. Go mash some action figure together in the air

>>715808343
For 2025 standards DMC1 is king of the world

>>715808051
It is quite simple but extremely satisfying. I don't think any other DMC game has anything that feels as insanely good as beating the fucking SHIT out of demons with the Ifrit. I think it's the sound.

>>715808635
DMC1GOD

>>715806485
>style switching in DMC3
Not my DMC3! But I will say crazy combos (where you rapid tap the button to do an alternate version of a combo) were really fun. I love the fist of the north star punching crazy combo with the beowulf, it's extremely satisfying

>>715808797
For me, it's that Ifrit had a really nice balance where the balance/speed of the combat was paced to line up with the charged attacks that the weapon is based around. Beowulf I rarely use the charged attacks because combat in 3 is way faster and the power boost doesn't really add much. Gilgamesh is WAY too slow for 4's combat even if you don't use the charged attacks at all. Vergil can use his charged Beo punches in 5 but that's largely just because he's deliberately overpowered, its charged attacks are fun but aren't nearly as useful relatively speaking as Ifrit's.

>>715808797
This was when it felt like Dante was here to actually slay demons and not jerk himself off to his anime abilities. Everything was just about killing the enemy as efficiently as possible.

>>715808051
Nelo Angelo mogs every Elden Ring boss

>>715808137
All those games you listed are trash. Gooks and chinks will never make a good game, especially not action games.

killed?

hm... truly a mistery...

>>715804326
>The DMCshitification of NG
Why do you faggots argue they aren't the real cancer killing action games again?

>>715812963
> DMC invented aerial combat
Why are you retarded.

>>715812963
Please tell me how the fuck NG4 is anyway close to DMC

>>715793263
the camera is
read nigger read

>>715813363
The fucking 7 second long juggle combo not clue you in, or have you not played any of the other NG games?

>>715813701
>DMC invented juggles

>>715813252
dmc popularized juggle slop in 3d action games, yes, NUplatinum kikes probably looked at how popular jewtube dmc combo videos and went "omg, we add this and ng will be fixed!"

>>715813816
Okay, but DMC didn't invent aerial attacks which is all that webm showed.

>>715813993
I will touch you at night

>>715814047
The only thing you're touching is yourself.

>>715814047
You better be in London.

DMC1 remake could finally have a selfie function.

Hope we get our own Bury the Light and Devil Trigger

>>715812523

Here was my COMBO MAD XIIIII entry. I think I did pretty good

>>715815881
Needs more SWORDTRICKSWORDTRICK

>>715815881
Leaked gameplay of the DMC1 remake.

>>715792937
>>715793689
The character designs aren't bad on paper but the artstyle is too generic, makes it look like it's from a shitty porn game or something. If you want people to find it more generally appealing you need to put in a lot of effort into refining a more appealing and exciting artstyle and that's not just for the anime faces themselves but the details of the robot parts and outfit and the graphics as well

>>715804326
instant weapon switching shows such a lack of knowledge. NG is like the one game where weapon switching ISN'T necessary. The OG weapons are purposefully designed to have some similar tools.
So retarded.
Also that is literally a shitty DMC combo in an NG game. FUCK PLATINUM HOLY FUCK WHERES THE INTERACTION

>>715805707
>Kamiya directing
It'll be kino

>>715772879
oh no...not @Wild_Rose_II, anyone buy him please

>>715753463
No wonder 5 was the biggest piece of dogshit imaginable. The reboot could have saved this franchise but weebs wanted their anime pillow Dante instead

The #FreePalestine crowd on twitter is absolutely SEETHING hahaha.

>>715816674
Kin-o-oohh

>>715773036
thanks for proving the point,playing on normal is next to nothing in a dmc game

>>715793263
and you are retarded

>>715818581
>DMC Reboot good
What do you call this then?

>>715823427
Canon Vergil power

>>715804560
None of this shit matters when you have hours of unskippable cutscenes. It's more a movie than game.

>>715823427
the YAM-uhto

>>715805947
Why do I believe this lol

>>715809962
>Dante was here to actually slay demons and not jerk himself off to his anime abilities.
The literal first thing you see him do in DMC1 is juggle a bike with his guns.

>>715748840 (OP)
Fixed camera angles no longer being used to both give you greater visibility of the arena and having amazing handcrafted views, replaced by freecamera tasteless bullshit

gotta love vergil

>>715825697
Zoomies complain too much about fixed camera angles, which is ironic because constantly having to fiddle with the camera during combat is honestly even more annoying than any of the problems fixed camera angles have.

Let's post vaporware

>>715748840 (OP)
>what was it that killed...
candy crush did it

>Let's post vaporware
https://youtu.be/rTfa-9aCTYg?si=tYG9Se1fQy-mK-vI

>>715828371
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXZ8YTrezlo
This Taiwanese game was announced in 2022 with a planned 2023 release date and by mid 2024 they had a playable demo with intent to release "early 2025".

>>715748840 (OP)
they died because they were good games

welcome to the new standard

>>715828371
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3HNfL5ThK0

>>715796021
>holding down Y at 5fps on the most powerful hardware in the world takes effort

>>715828614
>sunday school was 9 years ago
Unreal

>>715800136
kys zoomzoom

>>715809962
The style meter is the opposite of efficiency, unless you're hitting multiple enemies.

>>715748840 (OP)
I don't know what exactly but i can tell you when.
It was the PS2 generation and it was a number of things.
-A hard shift in the market happened.
-The increase in cinematics in games brought in swathes of newcomers to the medium (women and dudebros)
-These people weren't used to playing games, and so action focused gameplay was not popular with them at all because they lacked the motor skills to be able to play them
-Journalists started rating down action games for not having enough story
-Action game sales plummeted
-Japanese studios (who were the kings of action games) all started to close
>>715749012
People who play on smart phones never played games prior to 2007

>>715748840 (OP)
perfection.

the genre already has something for everyone. it's hard to go past devil may cry 5. hell, you can argue they haven't gone past dmc 4/3.

the best prospective action game is a reimagining of devil may cry 1

>>715749298
>Platinum is barely hanging in there.
I think they're cooked unfortunately

>>715749532
RE4 is one of the greatest action games ever made.

>>715749170
>There isn't a rage post every hour on /v/
>Therefore there isn't hype
That's right. Now make another master card thread. Now that the SKG content farm has dried up

>>715748840 (OP)
Unreal engine