did this really start out with methodical Souls combat and become a typical ARPG spam-fest because of player feedback?

>>717631820 (OP)
The systems were at odds with the design.

>>717631874
This
>make grinding game
>but everything is slow as shit
Either makes drop guaranteed or speed everything up

>>717631820 (OP)
yes

The endgame has always devolved into poe1 one button zoomzoom since EA. I can't get over how many dadgamers got exposed claiming the endgame was "totally fixed" and everyone was just filtered by slow methodical combat when it didn't exist past acts and they were in fact the ones still trudging through campaign weeks later.

>>717631820 (OP)
Correction: Your character was slow and methodical
The breach mobs surrounding you were not

>>717631820 (OP)
it has a few issues
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT-m-jOy8LDgo_uui2p-AfnFnQq2BHeWuHU5MyAgvgDQCD9_fdrz6EYt4JBoDcuDEbcvnz1U2xYdA5h/pub

>>717632323
everyone already knows if you played monk used spark etc you didn't actually beat the game so

>>717631820 (OP)
Yes. It's a silly design. The natural evolution of PoE would be for it to mostly play itself, if you want. Players are more interesting in their builds, strats, passive trees etc, than pressing a bunch of buttons and hecking dodgerolling.

POE2 got butchered because of mass whinefests from POE1 players who just want zoom zoom divs/hr and not only don't care if the gameplay sucks to get that, they actively want as little gameplay as possible to get in the way of their slackjaw moneymaking.
It is extremely telling that GGG came out and said that people who never played POE were SIGNIFICANTLY more successful at POE2, because POE1 players refused to engage with 2's mechanics. As an example, Zizaran (faggot) in an interview with GGG complained that he doesn't get any good floor rares. GGG responded that they had a whole system to make your own rares by disenchanting unused floor rares. Zizaran's response? He doesn't engage with that system because he decided to sell everything for a pittance of gold and gambled with it. He chose a horrible way to progress his character and complained to the lead dev's face instead of trying to improve at the game.
Then GGG made one REAL fuck-up, which was 0.2 nerfing Exalted Orb campaign drop rates which was legitimately an awful change, and it sparked a wildfire of POE1 fags demanding GGG turn 2 into 1
GGG has already taken a large step towards ruining the game by making floor rares drop like candy, even in act 1

>>717632389
Including classic PoE style breach into PoE2 was such an obvious mistake it's baffling it went through. It's COMPLETELY at odds with the careful spacing and skill combos the campaign focuses on, it's fucking stupid. In general, they designed a system to slow down the player and force them into more thoughtful scenarios where you might not just want to explode entire screens, but then forgot to actually make content for that playstyle. And then made the endgame exploding screens again.

>>717631820 (OP)
>did this really start out with methodical Souls combat
yes and no
it tried at first, with the warrior, but the animations for him are really slow and inaccurate, as in if you start charging forward swinging a hammer, you will almost always miss
the sorc/witch is just 'you have 10 buffs/debuffs that boost dps by 30%, keep casting them over and over

the Monk plays like a lite Nero from DMC4 and is the best class, if you don't do the cheese builds because it's an ARPG, and instead experiment as if it was a "REAL GAME"

I’m watching the combat as a new player for the Count boss fight, and it looks really good. I felt that with Diablo IV, you’re just holding down buttons and dodging, never really timing attacks.

But you guys are saying they ditched this now in poe2?

>>717633751
you can do every boss in under a minute in PoE2 now unless you suck at the game
both because of the action part and the RPG part

ITT dilators having a melty and lashing out at their betters again

>>717631820 (OP)
AS IT ALWAYS WILL
THIS GENRE IS FUCKING TRASH

>>717631820 (OP)
The early beta footage has the player character moving at like 2-3x the speed of release, along with them having quicksilver flasks.

>>717633852
okay, well can you prove you can do every boss in poe 2 in under a minute? or are you just trolling because even by speedrun standards under a minute for every boss sounds insane

>>717631820 (OP)
the endgame was always going to be a copy of poe1, like anyone could have told you that

>>717631820 (OP)
>devs want things to be slower
>bosses to be a challenge
>but the base game is an ARPG where you need loot spam to get the gear to tackle the bosses

Check out how the gauntlet has gone this time, they thought it might be uncompletable, but the nutters are finding a way.

So I think the solution is unfortunately going to be a reversion to D2 in full, BOSS farming for the loot, the mechanics they ported over to POE2 are ALL about speed, kill more, more loot, oh and the mobs are fast as fuck, it's nuke the screen or die.

I DO think they did a good job on the boss difficulty, at least in campaign, you'll reach the typical 5 second fights at endgame max gear, so expect major damage nerfs for 0.3.

>>717631820 (OP)
You can't have action combat + Dynasty Warriors levels of mass slaughter

PICK FUCKING ONE

>>717637170
>so expect major damage nerfs for 0.3
I kinda don't think they dare do that so soon. Redditors screeched loud enough to get articles written about how bad they are I mean the game is.

>>717632985

You just don't drop enough raw ex/alch/chaos to 'progress' your character, the current state of the RNG for self crafting is fucked. So selling shit for gamba ends up being faster, and it's stretched harder in SSF, GL being res capped as clean and quick as you can in POE1 and it's even that much more a requirement.

nah, it's because ggg launched with too little content and their great idea was to patch POE1 in to fill the hole so you end up with a self-contradicting game.
>we want player skill to matter like dark souls (we even have dodgerollan!)
>oh btw the endgame consists of spamming one ability to clear whole maps just like poe1 and you'll never dodgerollan again

>>717631820 (OP)
Has this game been unfucked yet? Last I played it the game was fucking slow, the areas were too big for their own good, and gear drops were dogshit.

>So I can make any class into any build without restrictions? Thats cool, that means I dont have to overthink my first character and I can just pick who looks cool!
>Wait, what are these Ascension things?
>Oh...nevermind.

>>717637671

They're just going to have to gut the speedy mechanics and have bosses themselves show up in breach/deli 1/4 interactions, and have that enemy drop a larger loot explosion.

Kinda of like how I was running abyss+beyond+blight this league, beyond bosses every map, maybe a deli if I got lucky as a natural spawn. Granted I play SSF and I was doing this cause I was chasing a 85+ darkness enthroned and as many blighted maps and oils as I'd think I need.

>>717637923

Areas, mostly act 3, made smaller a while ago, still huge compared to poe1. Gear was buffed, in quant and qual. Eh, it's still slow I think.

Which game to start with?

>>717640086
don't. save yourself and stop now before grinding gear games grinds you into their game

>>717640132
Nah it’s alright I don’t grind in games.

>>717640086
Neither, wait until Path of Exile 2's campaign is finished and play that, don't bother with "endgame" in these games it's just bubble-wrap with particle effects and number-go-up dopamine milking. The campaign of PoE2 actually seems promising.

>>717640086
Just wait for PoE 2 to officially release, it will be Free.
The full campaign alone will be worth a play through for anyone who remotely likes ARPGs.
Right now its only for autismos and diehard fans.

>>717640683
How can an Early Access be for autismos

>>717641343
400hrs in already. It's completely half baked but I still loved making new characters, barely got 5k hrs in poe1.

>>717640683
>>717640268
Thats gonna take so long at this rate
What am I supposed to do in the mean time?

>>717640086
PoE 1 is an actual complete game that knows what it wants to be and executes it well. PoE 2 is half a game stretched far beyond it's breaking point and doesn't work as designed.

>>717641343
if you can't figure that out by yourself then you're an irredeemable retard

You can't make a fucking soulslike in an ARPG with this many systems because someone will ALWAYS find an outlier build that can zoom through maps and melt the screen at mach speed, and everyone will gravitate towards that build
The difference between an unoptimized build and an optimized build is a giant fucking chasm, if they want to actually replicate soulslikes and have consistent difficulty they need to severely limit player customization or it'll never work
The moment I saw the power curve in this game was exponential, with multipliers stacked upon multipliers stacked upon more multipliers, I knew it was going to devolve into POE1 by endgame, and I was right.

>>717644054
Maybe the goal is to have cake and eat it too.
>plebs that never beat campaign (or don't really map) have slower souls-like
>grinders as per usual at endgame with screen melt (it just takes a bit longer for the 'real build' to come online)

They WANT boss fights to be 3-5 minutes. This means damage reduction of either the player or the boss has bonkers HP/incoming damage reduction. Like fuck, playing RF as league start and gimped gear is already a 5+ min kill for eater/exarch as is (I don't recommend this life).

So what could they do? Player damage itself is hard capped per tick?

>>717644485
>They WANT boss fights to be 3-5 minutes.
why would anyone want this outside of an mmo

>>717644054
What about players that intentionally use the base mechanics at a certain level to stress test that the enemy designs are working as intended by the designers?

>>717644861
Why do you want bosses to be over in 10 seconds.

>>717644485
The first thing I would do is remove all sources of increased movement and attack/cast speed from both the player and enemies, and then balance the game around that.
Moving and attacking should be purposeful and have weight behind it, and enemies shouldn't be able to surround you in a nanosecond.

I mean wasn’t this a problem with Souls’ combat regarding single target vs groups?

>>717645258
because simon says bullshit is boring if you're not trying to wrangle 20 people into doing it at the same time

>>717645682
Don’t you want some semblance of mechanical challenge that interacts with your build?

>>717645268
People complained hard with how fucking long a slog the campaign was on release, I know my first char was 40hrs to maps, I've gotten it down to about 10-15 now (league start seems to hover around 15 for me), but by god, even with the smaller act 3 zones, it's a lot of run forward (this is generally because gear dropped now, is not an upgrade, getting to the next act, or breakpoint for say mod ilv is far more impactful than wasting time clearing), and a lot of time can be wasted trying to do a side quest for 1 skill point when you can come back later and do it faster.

And hell at 10~15 hrs (league start char, 8~ for second+) that about my usual for poe1 (but I also stop to interact with league mechanics, so poe2 once that's in might be even longer).

Making us slower is something people will hate, especially for a loot goblin game, means there needs to be less enemies and slower but also be the loot goblin. And fuck, in a souls game I don't fight everything, I run past a lot, unless I want something on it's drop table, souls/runes (levelling) or a boss. But now it's an ARPG, and loot is the goal, get stronger do the thing faster. Devs see you do this, so add more things (giving us ubers, new pinnacle that needs a higher ceiling of gear to tackle etc). POE2 will be powercrept either way.

>>717645909
The majority of ARPG players don't want to actually do anything or especially put any effort or attention in. Like I said above, they want bubble-wrap with particle effects and number-go-up dopamine milking.

>>717644054
You can, however, make an ARPG in a soulslike

I think PoE2 is quite good, and despite my problems with current crafting, I think the gameplay is the best of the ARPG genre. It just needs to be finished already.

The classes I want to play are not in the game yet.
>Brownman
>Red shirt guy
>Old man no pants
>Furry Guy
>Twink Emo tatted guy

>friends wont play with me unless I can get them a key
>cant find a really cheap or free key anywhrre
Gr

>>717647519
Towards the end of the early access they will prob drop the entry fee to $10.

>>717631820 (OP)
>implying GGG listens to feedback
They have NEVER made changes based on feedback. The only things they care about are their internal metrics (are players suffering? yes? good) and their marketing (do we have shiny thing to show off? yes? good).
The only times they ever make a positive change is when one of their devs does their once-every-three-years playthrough of the game (livestreamed because it's such a big deal) and gets buttblasted at some mechanic that they spent the last 10 years insisting was fine and personally changes it less than 24 hours later.

>>717645909
I want it to come up in maps not from the same scripted shit every time.

>>717631820 (OP)
That's the way things seem to be headed.

>>717632985
this post hyperbolic or like a meme but it really was like that. It was actually incredible to me how some professional PoE1 streamers were crying the mobs in 2 were too fast.
Also the stat systems were at odds with the design philosophy.
Overall i thought it was fun to play through the campaign tho

>>717648587
>be me, with a bit of experience in ARPGs but never having played them that much, especially not to their end or post-games
>have a blast learning HCSSF PoE2 over 200 hours and finally get to maps
>next season get to maps in my 2nd life
>watch in dismay as all these supposed PoE1 pros sound like the noobs complaining in GL chat

>>717648587
>It was actually incredible to me how some professional PoE1 streamers were crying the mobs in 2 were too fast.
Loved that webm of someone just casually walking in wide circles as the Act 1 wolves that people cried about chased him and literally never touched him.

>>717644054
>with this many systems
the "number of systems" is irrelevant its the way the stats work that is the problem. I was saying this when the game first released too. Their stat system is FUCKED. the difference between playing the game normally using blue gear you find along the way vs GG tier loot from a lucky roll is insane. I found a godlike perfect roll level 2 crossbow and i was killing bosses in act 1 before they finished their introductory roar at the start of the fight.

The % damage bonus is too high, rather than take away health from the tree they should have taken damage, but even that wouldnt be enough with all the % damage and flat damage on gear. 2x iron rings in act 1 can be crazy. having shitloads of RPG choices is fine, wanting all those choices with action combat is fine, but you need a normalized stat benchmark for the player and enemies to be guided around or it turns into just 1 shot junk if you are good and lucky or health sponges if you arent.

>>717648881
I think one of the things GGG struggles with is that they know they have some really good ideas with itemization, but they don't know when to stop. Like, itemizing chests for strongboxes, itemizing content with maps.. that stuff was cool. But they're like tunnel-visioned on items and itemization too strongly. They seem to think nothing matters except the items, like every other system exists to elevate items. The only progression in the endgame is more ways to get more items. They don't want this or that on the passive tree because items.

>>717647639
>one of their devs does their once-every-three-years playthrough of the game (livestreamed because it's such a big deal)
What are you even talking about?

>>717632615
what the fuck

>>717631820 (OP)
Not really, it was always going to be like that because that's what the poe1 players were trained on. They wanted it to be slow in a fucked up way and then the players break it with temporalis and then lightning spears

Poop Of Excrement II

>>717631820 (OP)

the souls combat only lasted til the end of act 1. after that the game begins slipping back to path of exile 1 combat

The problem with PoE2 is they said they wanted dark souls but they didn't really commit to that. So its in a weird half way point. They say they want meaningful combat but then a bunch of bosses fill their arenas with bullshit, which no dark souls boss does. Mobs also outspeed the player so it becomes a game of chicken where you get rushed down and the best strategy is just to kill everything. People like Dark Souls bosses but then in mapping you only fight a boss every now and then, the maps are also huge.

>>717631820 (OP)
>because of player feedback?
No, it's because everything but the combat is designed in such a way that makes
>typical ARPG spam-fest
the optimal build in pretty much every situation. In other words, the designers (or at least one specific designer) are retarded and have no idea how mechanics interact in their own game.

>>717646720
people like this game for its combat and hate its system. Also it can be fast af if you want it to be, so it doesn't even fit the topic

>>717645909
If I have built up my character to the point where it is capable of erasing every boss from existence in 0.1 seconds, then that's what I want to happen. Not stare at at 2 minutes of animations and invulnerability phases because the designers are really proud of them.
The whole point of ARPG as a genre is power progression. Artificially limiting that because "muh mechanical challenge" goes against the entire core of the game.

>>717652557
that's just divine beast thoughbeit

>>717631820 (OP)
Its biggest issue is treating its early access as a fully released game. They're too scared to make the changes and experimentation that a beta requires before it can be fully formed into something great.

>>717649235
I think Faustus more or less only exists because Mark did a playthrough and hated manually trading for commodities

>>717654536
Yeah but Neon actually plays a ton and doesn't ever stream so that doesn't fit what anon said at all. He just finally got fed up with trading materials one league, I think maybe Necro league with the allflames? He's a known PoE sweatlord outside of work. Trouble trading commodities like those on the currency exchange isn't even a problem someone who only plays casually once every couple years would have.

>>717652557
They also want to keep doing the season bullshit, but if they keep the slower actual difficult and meaningful combat it'll massively burn people out having to redo it frequently.

>>717655086
The other big problem that just shows how PoE2 is at odds with itself is the mechanics they bring over from PoE1 while talking about slowing the game down. Breach and Delirium were THE clearspeed mechanics, you can't have complex and meaningful combat with enemies that literally spawn in your face and you need to kill hundreds in 15 seconds or fail. That and they keep trying to treat this EA game like a full release, they should be more generous with the system to stress test outliers and be more proactive with changes to get balance right, instead they just drop 2-3 patches when a new league drops and then sit back for three months since they don't want to upset the meta, which in turn becomes more stale and rigid than PoE1 ever got. Finally the teaser for the new "league" coming at the end of August just being that they're doing Abyss again isn't raising many hopes that they break away from PoE1.

>won't be able to build new PC by 0.3
dang it

>>717655461
They were doing pretty frequent and proactive updates early on, but they overnerfed trigger builds and basically fucked an entire archetype of build after a week or so of the initial 0.1 launch which caused a ton of people to bitch about their build being dead and not being able to respec since respeccing cost way too much at that point. Sadly, GGG took from that situation that they should only do big patches and minor bugfixes like you described instead of just giving people cheaper/free respecs while they still work things out, so now in terms of patching it's being treated like a fully released game like PoE 1 instead of the early access game it is. We really got the worst possible outcome of that whole situation imo.

>>717632615
why would someone type that all out

>>717631820 (OP)
I don't think it had anything to do with feedback because it was like that from the beginning. They just made the scaling the same as in poe1 which makes it inevitable that it turns into zoom zoom one shot explosions.

>>717631820 (OP)
have they finally given every class a uniqe dodge roll?

The game had massive potential but it was ruined by people who want it to be like poe1 where you just zoom forward and kill everything in 1 hit.

Should have way lower enemy density, slower speeds on everything but way higher drop rates, that would have been awesome.

>>717631820 (OP)
>did this really start out with methodical Souls combat
No, not even for a single second is it that and you're bad at poe if you thought it was

i want every arpg main to die a horrific death. they are the dumbest nigger cattle in gaming. they ruin every single arpg. i fucking hate them to an extent that is likely unhealthy for my constitution. i fantasize about ripping their nipples off. i dream about pouring hot lead into their ears.

>>717657423
like this retard. they literally nerfed mob hp by 25% you utter buffoon. you chittering chimp. you absolutely anencephalic asshat

>>717657719
Yeah it sucks that they nerfed monster hp, poe2 is fucking over, sad times.

>>717631820 (OP)
No. It goes for a balance where standard exploring is like Diablo 2 and bosses are like a Souls game.

>>717657719
Behead all people that claim to be fans of ARPGs but don't want to engage with mechanics whatsoever.

>>717632615
>check on to see if there is any sensible and reasonable critique
>it boils down to 'It's not Ruthless enough'

Alk faggots deserves to be castrated.

>>717631820 (OP)
Goes to show that if you want to bring something new to the table you can't halfarse it and immediately capitulate to people complaining that your game isn't the same as Last Game

We didn't need a PoE1 remaster

>>717652557
It's the culmination of multiple rounds of submitting to players wanting characters to be stronger followed by content creep to catch up with that submission. Characters have no animation commitment, attacks are instant and ranged and homing and you can attack while moving and the attacks bounce and hit everything and then everything that you hit explodes and damage doesn't interrupt you and healing is instant and works mid animation and charges refill over time and mana is infinite. Given that starting point of character power it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a souls-like boss which can adequately challenge the player. You either have to make the mechanics one-shot people OR you fill the screen with unavoidable bullshit to constantly chip away at player shields and healing otherwise there is no way they will ever die

You cannot create boss fights which threaten a player with attrition over time by punishing mistakes if the player's kit has so few restrictions that there are no mistakes to be made and their healing is so free and abundant that they can't ever fall to attrition

>>717652557
Why did you post a screenshot from Elden Ring?

>>717637490
>it's even that much more a requirement.
it really isn't, the game is designed with players being under res cap for a lot of the campaign. it's more like d2 than poe 1 in that regard. it's piss easy to res cap anyway, but if you choose to run through the game with shit res you really only notice it on act bosses.

>>717656641
They argued that free respec in EA would give the impression thats what the game would always be like.

I wish they just said "Free respec the entire EA. RESPEC WILL COST YOU IN 1.0. So don't abuse the respec everytime you want to boss or map."

>>717633929
among the worst producers i've ever seen

>>717660992
They're really hung up on not making any temporary changes like this. I get the logic in some ways but not entirely.

>>717659116
There's awkwardness in both IMO.

>I wasn't even inside the animation/circle and still took damage: goes for both

>attack speed and animation speed don't line up, how the actual fuck did I get hit
>they have unnatural levels of delay I can't fucking tell what frame I'm actually being hit on
>the hitbox model doesn't fucking match the animation model how in the actual fuck did I not I-frame that (insert those ulcerated erdtree things here)
>it moves so fucking fast and erratically that my swing does nothing (ever feel like some snakes with prox tang/prox shield just don't wanna take damage even though you're fucking sure you were in the bubble?)

>>717661140
people got real mad after the energy changes and they realised why they do it on a league to league basis. They had a fantasy of what "early access" is vs reality

>>717659395
I mean, that's kinda my point. Get 50-75 cold res and count isn't a problem. But ring drops are rare, a cold one rarer, you need to luck into that 50-75 cold res, where as I can make sure I'm cold res caped at merveil just by buying/vendor crafting if I have to. I shouldn't have to bang my head against the wall for an extra hour running zones in the hope that I can farm drops to sell for ring gamba, or just pure RNG drop gamba that a sapphire ring or two drops.

It's turning the 60 min act into 90+ just because ya need the res.

>but just don't get hit

Show me someone who can consistently do count runs no hit. Now that has to be average joe who just wants to move on to act 2 with 20-40 cold res.

>>717661660
Oh, and not spend 10+ hours on act 1. Mostly aimed at farming/lucking into cold res. Which they have to do again later with fire/lightning for act 2.

Just get a Cold Res ring from Una.

>>717636334
>>okay, well can you prove you can do every boss in poe 2 in under a minute?
yes, by recording myself doing that?
Im not recording that because then Id have to replay the 30 hour campaign again

>>717661907
or stick a cold res rune in a random piece of gear.

>>717632045
Hey zoomer

POE1 players are so bad at vidya that fresh POE2 players are better than them within hours of playing. Probably first and only time we will ever see a community suck so hard at their own game.

>>717662428
They are genuinely afraid of my build that has me using 5 buttons.

>nerf hexblast that was not that strong and required lots of setup
>barely anyone used this
>they TOTALLY butchered it so it's just useless now
Meanwhile lightning spear is used by like 80% of the players and they refuse to nerf it because Reddit would cry.

The single biggest issue with PoE and PoE2 is balancing, I'm not saying they should strive to attain perfect balance. But Every season/league there's a single skill that's 1000x better than everything else that like 80% of the playerbase use.
Like what the fuck is the point of having over 100 skills and countless of potential builds if 80% of your players will just use a SINGLE skill?
How can the devs look at these numbers and think this is ok?

>>717662679
I fucking hate what they did to Hexblast but it's pretty good if you spec into it with -Duration and even on a regular Chaos build, cursing stuff from far away is really good and you might as well use the Hexblast when you do that. More in bossing without a specialized build though.

>>717662735
>I fucking hate what they did to Hexblast but it's pretty good if you spec into it with -Duration and even on a regular Chaos build
I tried to do this several times and it was really really weak. And it took lots of investment, required like 2 specific legendaries and it was still really suboptimal.
Shittiest thing is that you were FORCED to have that insta curse cast legendary and I play SSFHC so you're fucked if you can't find it again

>>717631820 (OP)
>did this really start out with methodical Souls combat and become a typical ARPG spam-fest because of player feedback?

are you talking about DS3?

>>717662302
>just get lucky
>cold res runes are super common
>cold res rings are super common
>you'll get 2 rings 2 runes and 2 sockets before geneor 100%

>>717662793
You could get insta cast Curses without the Unique by using the Support Gem and taking some nodes on the tree. But maybe pretty good is an overstatement because even if the damage can be good, it's still really clunky to play and takes a lot of investment.

>>717631820 (OP)
no. they want dark souls combat but some abilities are always able to explode screens and the playerbase naturally gravitates to this because it's an arpg not a dark souls game and being able to explode screens rapidly is the ideal way to play
this is also why poe2 is doomed

>>717662979
Yeah I remember it was TONS of investment for little gain. Donno why they even butchered hexblast totally, a nerf I could understand but this is just totally ruining it.
And meanwhile they barely touch heralds that allows you to just clear entire screens with just 1 button press.

This is really my biggest grip with the game, the balancing is just totally fucked.

Fromshit """"""""""""""""""""""""""""methodical"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" combat is definitely the most cancerous thing of 21st century game development so far.
Effectively a cuck simulator genre. Always devolves into that sandbag juggling character action game, except YOU are the sandbag.
I've never seen anything fromshit derivative making the game feel like you're actually FIGHTING.

>>717662921
If only there were a quest that always rewarded you with a rune of your choice, or some kind of bench that could break down items with sockets so you could get an item that let you put one on whatever you wanted.

>>717632615
>its bad because muh dorksoys
This guy is retarded

>>717631820 (OP)
poop2 is bad.

>>717663182
They want a dedicated build for it to need to jump through a lot of hoops because they want it to be a powerful payoff for the builds using it as a payoff skill. I'm not exactly opposed to the idea but the problem is that there isn't something that occupies the niche of a good fodder skill for Chaos damage. You can keep Hexblast this way, but give us something to fucking cast that isn't ED.

>>717663203
The problem with fromshit is not the methodical combat, it's 100% the rollslop.
Having a button that allows you to have a big ass i-frame to avoid any danger makes any game shitty designed. All bosses you fight will feel the exact same because all your solution to their attacks is "lol i-frame" dodge and the entire game will be balancing around this fact.

>>717632985
This is a shill. Your gameplay proposal is wrong. Ziz was playing correctly and outted the devs during that interview as out of touch retards. You don't get good gear by gambling either regal orbs. It's just not a feasible way to upgrade your character. That's why they subsequently buffed drop rates

>>717663402
>That's why they subsequently buffed drop rates
No that's because Reddit poe1 babies wined

>>717663402
>t. tradie
Most of my gear through campaign was great 3 line gear I Regald. Gambling sure as hell is not a better prospect with the Rares you used to get.

>>717636334
He's retarded
>bosses are trivial and over in seconds
>campaign takes 30 hrs
He clearly doesn't play at a high enough level to do as he claims

>>717663256
A whole 20% "guaranteed cold res!", "now I'll just farm so I can get enough socket frags to get 2/3+ sockets, and hope I get some more cold res runes!", "also just hope to get some cold rings and cold res on gear a long the way".

Man I can wear blue gear into act 10 because I manually crafted res on and gamba'd with an aug in poe1 and I don't have to hope, I just will have that. Does help to a degree that -chaos in acts in poe1 isn't a real issue, where act act 3 in poe2 punishes a lack of chaos, yea they changed it so that you don't get -30 chaos res per part.

>give all bosses one-shot mechanics
>REFUSE to make it so you can tank them because they don't want anyone to be able to "facetank" a boss
So if someone chose to invest way more into defenses instead of offense, meaning it will take them way longer to kill stuff, but be safer... why wouldn't they be allowed to?
Why is it so bad to allow someone to take 10min facetanking a boss vs someone killing it in under 1min? The guy killing it fast is rewarded for it.

>>717663402
that shit with ziz was one of the most retarded things i've ever witnessed. i know he was largely speaking on behalf of his gamerdad community but wtf?
>i sold all the rares i found so i could gamble and now i don't have regals to craft?!
and the fucked thing about it is ggg saw this as a potential problem so they gave the gamble vendors a stock based on how many unique monsters you killed.
so ziz was over farming unique bosses so he could gamble and somehow still was unable to gear a character? it just doesn't make sense.

>>717663651
No, you're allowed to invalidate bosses, but only if you play ES, which I think they need to fix.

>>717663392
Get the roll wrong, eat the hit, take the roll catch, enjoy the stagger etc. "I was there when the bomb went off but did a forward roll". "The omega delayed swing + aoe effect failed the swing portion, you're going to the the aoe bit as well, you dodge too soon and entered a stagger anim".

You're too slow to run out of some aoe's, so the problem is they want the fantasy of 'don't get hit' and 'stay close and man fight'.

>play SSFHC
>find a neck with + skill/spell level
>now my damage is like 2-3x higher
>have fun lvling
>don't find anything like this
>entire level progress is the biggest slog imaginable
Is this good or bad design?

>>717663508
This is an issue all round. Gamba HAS better loot, at least in poe1, it attempts the gear quality thing they have going. Chucking on a trans, aug, regal can roll the entire mod pool, at least with gamba it was meant to remove the low tier mods so you just couldn't get utter shit, thus the entire base (only way to re-roll was throwing a chaos at it, but that too could re-roll into complete shit t10 trash-dead mod).

>>717631820 (OP)
No, it started as PoE 1 but updated if you look at the old footage.
Just a modern ARPG with polished animations, better graphics, and reworked older systems.

Somewhere along the development the lead dev drank the stupid juice, forced some of the old guard out, and decided that what people want from PoE 2 is very difficult combat, including souls like dodge/block mechanics, and high enemy damage, where most enemies can kill you near immediately, while you have very low kill speeds.
Which would be fine if they were developing the game with this in mind from the beginning, but they did not. So depending on what they rebalanced, you would have soulslop and at the same time a few abilities that slipped trough the net that allowed PoE 1 gameplay (blowing up the whole screen in 1 tap).
Basically they managed to make an amalgam of multiple games that do not work together, alienating the majority of their old player base, while appealing to nobody.
Before anyone starts with
>muh steam numbers
Yes, everyone will try it, and yes people will give it another chance with the first few leagues. Lets see how the leagues grow, in PoE 1 you have consistent player growth over a decade. With PoE between the launch and the first league you already see a huge drop off. But hey, time will tell.

>>717632985
As a scrub with only like 200 hours in PoE1 I tried PoE2 at EA launch and I really really liked how it played
My issue was that they said you didn't need to copy someone elses meta build so i played the crossbow guy putting every point i could into crossbow damage but everything still had so much hp that it took me like 15 minutes to kill bosses in act 2 which was insanely unfun
I used all my gold to try and buy better bases to upgrade from vendors so I was constantly broke and never had decent upgrade materials, act 3 felt like a brick wall so I stopped playing and am waiting for the full release
Hopefully they nerf campaign boss hp into the ground

>>717663928
Yes people want that because steam numbers don't lie, a 40 dollar game has way higher numbers than a botted chink f2p game tells everything you need.

>>717662428
Johnathan said this but lets be honest, its because new players are much happier to take their time. Someone who has 1000 hours in poe isn't going to read every text or clear every zone; they will rush and die more

>>717663928
path of exile 1 from 2019 is nothing like path of exile 1 from 2025. it would be retarded to expect a ggg game actually in development to be the same as what they showed back in 2019.

>>717657613
Nine of that has anything to do with poe1 players retard

>>717658571
This looks amazing desu. This is Rest Wicked or whatever from the Ori guys?

>>717663928
The parry shit it weird. Like you need perfect latency at all times, being an online game. And the charges generated only last a short time, and it's useless when mobbed. So it's a boss mechanic, but many a boss uses slams so parry is useless outside of keeping in melee distance and hoping they use 'tickle' instead of 'slam'?

>>717663846
Why are you playing joke mode created for torturing twitch clowns?

>>717664045
>path of exile 1 from 2019 is nothing like path of exile 1 from 2025
pretty much the same

t.gamer

>>717664080
Because I'm not a filthy casual.
What's the point in playing a mode with zero consequences or challenge? I'm not pretending to be some kind of elite e-sport gamer, but I don't see how I can enjoy something that barebone

>>717663928
The combat itself in PoE2 is really cool but if you're just a casual gamer everything has way too much fucking health, I'm not asking to 1tap the screen I just don't want to spend a minute kiting white mobs around trying to whittle their hp down, or alternatively stop flooding my screen with the fuckers and give me 1 or 2 at a time

>>717663846
You'd get bored faster if you could get the good gear sooner.

they're just treading the same ground they already did with poe1, same problems that have already been fixed in poe1

>>717661660
Theu did it that way because when casuals played poe1 they didn't realize capping cold res made merveil trivial. Poe2 is unironically balanced around zero res so the casual rollsloppers don't have to think about their character and can instead button mash their way through the game with dodge roll

>>717664232
King Bugs posts always make sense.

>>717631820 (OP)
No, the game was a complete mess from the start. It feels like at one point it was a totally different sort of experience but then they realized they should just do poe 1 again. The games are really not that different outside of a few mechanics (like how gems work). There's too many opposing design decisions

>we want a more strategic and slow sort of combat
But you're constantly surrounded by monsters because they have a massive aggro radius and are super fast

>we want meanigful power progression that feels rewarding all through the campaing and mapping
But then they added so many different variables that all add to player power and on top they all scale multiplicatively so being able to properly judge how strong a player is during most of their climb is impossible in thus can't really balance the acts

>we want diversity and unique builds where players use a variety of skills
But then we forgot to add any actual incentives so the best way to play becomes just going all in on a single spell or damage type because they didn't design any barriers for doing so

>we want a more hardcore experience where players need to navigate their surroundings and properly adjust gameplay
But then they forgot to fix the screen clutter issue and the best strategy is just to always be moving because there's no way you're going to see a tiny projectivel or some sort of mark under you that you need to get out of because the entire screen is effect vomit


Not to mention that they're no treating this like a beta at all where they need to make constant changes but as if it were a league. Where they only do one giant balance dump at the beginning and that's it. No fucking clue what they're doing but by the time this game releases It's just going to be poe 1 all over again with only a few system changes a new coat of paint. The poe1 community also being nothing but loot addicts who detest any gameplay that isn't just picking up shit from the ground doesn't help either.

>>717664083
right, except the rework of armor, evasion, removal of spell dodge, rework of most ascendancies, added the atlas passive tree and reworked it 8 times, removed awakener levels, removed the raider from the game, added a new ascendancy, reworked the magic find system, reworked the rare monster affix system, reworked the crafting system several times, etc.

>>717664139
Thank God and Charles Darwin for my dick being large enough to never feel a need to increase my ego through single player entertainment products.

>>717664072
>he doesn't live in Auckland, NZ with a 6 ms ping
lmao

>>717664367
plays the exact same

>>717664419
sure it does baby girl.

>>717663508
>>717663681
Rares weren't dropping often enough to slap regals on 2 stats . You are outting yourselves as shills. Jonatroon got extremely butthurt when ziz pointed out that regaling gear in campaign was inefficient and both of you sound extremely butthurt.

Which is it
1 the campaign is balanced around zero res
2 you need 3 stat gear from lucky regals to complete campaign
It can't be both. These narratives are completely at odds with one another. The chance that regal orb hits a relevant affix for your build is like 1/100 even for the lowest tiers of gear with less affixes. It's an utterly pointless action

>>717664251
I don't res cap until a10 kitava (well, over cap + do 3/4 ascendancies, so I'm capped for maps), it feels more mandatory in poe2 to be as close to capped by a3. Just more used to dodging the slams/aoe spells? Dunno. Long ago the only thing in campaign that was scary, was innocences fire ball thing, 3-4 of those could kill, but either: he never in phase long enough to use it, or: I'm fire capped, somehow and don't care. Or I'm just better at dodging it these days. I died a shitload on my first toon, some 30 deaths to a10 kitava and dunno what to campaign. I still die at least once in the campaign, normally to trying the league mechanic in mud flats, kek.

>>717664390
But there's no goal or anything to play for once you've beaten the campaign, there's a reason like 90% of players coming to a league stops playing when they've finished the campaign.
Playing hardcore gives you a proper goal, seeing how far you can get before you die. And you have to balance making a build that's defensive enough to survive, but also fast enough to get you good clear speed.
While if you're a baby you just need to go full out on damage because there's barely any setback for dying.

As a babycore player, what do you play for once you've beaten the campaign, farm stuff so you can farm faster?

>>717655461
Is that the teaser for the next update? Jesus...

>>717632615
Not only was this a slog to read through. The author didn't check for grammar issues. I hope this was a middle schoolers assignment.

>>717655461
>AI image
I hope GGG burns

>>717664591
Killing pinnacle bosses, once you beat the hardest boss on his hardest difficulty you beat the game

>>717664580
well you need to farm unique bosses to up the vendors stock so you can actually gamble. so was ziz killing dozens of unique bosses, selling dozens of rares for gold and then gambling for magic and rare items, vendoring them for more gold, then farming unique bosses even more for more vendor stock? because that is retarded and going out of your way to make up a bullshit problem.

>>717664817
That is what he was doing, yes.

>The intent

>>717664591
But the gear I use to complete the campaign, isn't killing maven. Wonder if I could get 4 void stones on the gear I kill kitava with, so I'm now using some two mod items, no res capped and probably am using a 4L as my DPS.

>>717664591
>But there's no goal or anything to play for once you've beaten the campaign
That's because you're playing a severely unfinished product. Basically doing a job of a QA tester. For free.

>Playing hardcore gives you a proper goal, seeing how far you can get before you die
Completely arbitrary "goal" at the same level as speedrunning. Dare I say it, a rather transsexual goal.

>The reality

>>717664847
Looks way more kino than pressing 1 button and clearing the entire screen

>>717664915
ironically poe2 is probably faster than poe1 at the top end

>>717664915
I'm fine with shit like this as your reward for fully decking out your character, the issue would be if you could play like this in campaign and early-mid endgame

>>717664915
>the utter endgame investment that few mortals will get to
>the campaign

>>717664817
He was doing that at the end of the campaign by farming the scarab boss yeah. Which was the de facto way to get good gear by any metric. It wasn't a problem at all I think you're retarded. If you were regaling gear pieces after salvaging 10 races you're a fucking idiot.
That method require you 1 already have a good 2 stat, 2 salvage 10/5? (Can't remember) rarest for one SINGLE regal 3 hit a good mod on the regal.

Vendoring trash rares from the scarab netter much faster gear acquisition at the end of the campaign. You can't even argue this, it was literally the meta thing to do for the entire player base and everyone was talking about/trashing the regal orb system. The reason you're here trying to defend this narrative is because your a fucking shill

>>717662679
They had to because there were a certain group of people that could exploit the skill and kill the Sanctum without any investment. They don't want people to be able to make currency from Sanctum so they killed the currency from it and they killed the best build for offscreening stuff in it.

>>717665000
and it is just the beginning, poe 2 zooming is fun as fuck. the biggest difference for me is poe 1 feels like fucking ass until you get a mageblood and can actually blast. poe 2 is fun from the beach to endgame zooming.

>>717664847
>roll back
>roll back
>roll back
>do a skill, it doesn't do much damage
>roll back
>roll back
>do a skill
>keep rolling back
Bitch cuck faggot simulator.
In a most literal sense, of course. It feels like a game for consumers of those jap cuck porn VNs as a target audience. I wonder, did any of them tell critics to self-insert as a boss who juggles a bitch cuck player like a sandbag?

>>717664893
I notice the first webm wasn't you and the second webm wasn't you either.

So you never experienced party play or end game content but are salty about it and stopped playing because of jealousy. Literally yelling at the screen for the end game of something you didn't experience doesn't cater to how you'd play even though you never made it that far

JONATROON

>>717665102
It's not as bad as you say, but its more:
>fire
>oh fuck roll
>roll
>roll
>fire
>fire
>roll
>roll
>roll
>fire
>roll
I have no idea if the rolls did anything. If the attacks would land and stagger/slow/stun, he's rolling because panic/lack of movement speed/movement skill.

>>717665079
>Which was the de facto way to get good gear by any metric.
for like a week until they patched it out like 2 weeks into 0.1. his spergout over regals was during 0.2.

>>717665000
Not even close retard.

>>717665250
Because it was still an issue held over from the previous patch and they nerfed loot drops at the start of 0.2. Using a regal orb on a 2 stat item to upgrade gear is not a good guaranteed way to get an upgrade. It never can be unless regals and 2-stats drop like candy so you can gamble. But they don't so it's a pointless endeavor. You keep trying to refute basic math - it's silly.

>>717665273
nah i'm right, go back to the poe1 general

>>717665421
>Because it was still an issue
yeah a ziz skill issue.
you don't play the game and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. it's a moot point either way because you don't need a full set of perfect gear to get through the campaign, you need a good weapon and move speed boots. the rest of your gear is mix and match shit you find along the way, just like poe 1.

>>717663516
most of the campaign is walking with sluggish move speed. bosses taking 30 seconds being replaced with 5 minutes would make the campaign take at most 2 more hours total

>>717664742
>to read through
its 50k words how'd you read it so fast

>>717665778
Poe2 bosses spam and have much larger aoe problems. No you don't need res cap for a1/a2, but helps. You do want close to 50 so geonor's phase 3 isn't 2 hitting you. This might also just be a dps problem, people not getting their upgrades, I felt this mid a3 a few times, a wep that ripped through a2 early a3 just drops off in the past and not seeing SOMETHING BETTER could take ages. Recipes and the bench really did fix that.

>>717665778
>you don't need good gear to complete the campaign
Ahh, knew we'd get here eventually, which brings me back to >>717664580.
You lost

>>717665438
Post any webm of someone clearing than that blade vortex video as proof lil bro

>>717632323
lol, every Path of Exile stream shows some twig boy spamming blink and one shitting the map
Literally who finds this fun? And these faggots couldn’t figure out how to gem the AOE into their blink until they watched another sissy show him how to make his build
Diablo 3 is the only good ARPG

>>717663516
and before you say anything heres what Im playing
>crit ele monk, I use frozen locus and glacial cascade, collect power charges then cast falling thunder
kills all bosses in under a minute, only wait is RNG of waiting for power charges

PoE2 was only dark souls in the campaign, maybe at best during Act 1. After that the game becomes a generic ARPG which makes you wonder why you're even playing this when POE1 already exists.

Lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK4g5lcRRyQ

Poo 1 is just better
t. Still playing poe 1 (migrated all a week ago)

>>717666067
what point do you think you are making here?
the whole thing was the sheer retardation of ziz over farming unique mobs so he could vendor dozens of rare and magic items and then gamble on trash he didn't need.
he went out of his way to create a problem for himself and then blamed it on the game.
even in hardcore you don't need to over farm to that degree in the campaign, you didn't need to do it in 0.1 and you didn't in 0.2. it's the definition of a nonissue.

>>717666462
He was 1 playing hc 2 gearing for maps 3 he never stated what he was doing was a problem. He was stating what he was doing was better than jonatroons alternative of gambling on regal orbs

I love the narrative spin of the shill. You make a statement on an obvious game flaw and they bend over backwards trying to find someway to blame it one you lmao.
>you were playing wrong!
>you didn't need that loot!
>regaling is better noob!
>YOU CREATED THIS!!!
lmao. Zizs problem wasn't scarab farming. He never said that. He said early campaign didn't drop enough rares or regals to use them reasonably. Is that problem fixed by NOT farming a scarab boss? No, it's not. It isn't impacted at all.

>>717663516
Don't see any

>>717664064
Yes, still in EA but there's a good amount to play

>>717666849
why do you keep on bringing up the scarab? it was patched out of the game 4 months before he sperged out over regals.
and he literally said
>i don't have enough regals to craft because i vendored everything so i could gamble
it would be like someone complaining that they don't have transmutes in poe 1 because they vendored them all for wisdom scrolls.
is only viable solution to his problem is give him unlimited currency?

>>717665227
he's rolling because he's using a build that wants to detonate grenades and daze/kite things and he needs space

>introduce a rolling mechanic
>the mechanic itself is complete bait and serves no purpose
epic

>>717631820 (OP)
>Guys we want slow methodical combat with combos, situational awareness, and bosses with actual mechanics
>Okay so what end game should we add to support this?
>I know! Breach and Delirium, two mechanics from PoE1 that reward speed clearing more than anything and allow no time for methodical combat!
>Oh, also add Ritual! Restrict the combat arena to a tiny circle and add small chaos damage explosions that do 10,000 so you just run around in a circle while spamming
>And don't forget that every map is gonna be massive and just require you to go around and kill rares, and the drop rates are just as bad as PoE1 so the wealthiest players will be the fastest ones!
Every system in the game was designed to reward speed while the combat itself was at odds with that. It feels to me like different people designed different aspects of the game and never properly communicated. I mean look at the state of 0.1
>Warrior's part of the passive tree contains a downside to every upside, or every upside is conditional. The raw damage stats and defensive stats are terrible. Armor is borderline useless. Active blocking is useless. Every mace skill has built in reduced attack speed and armor gives reduced movement speed
>Monk's part of the passive tree has 0 downsides to everything, shits out free damage, crit, evasion, ES, etc. All of their attacks shit out projectiles and they drop bells that like triple their DPS
>Stormweaver stacked INT/Mana which gave both offense and defense and allowed for insane max hit and screenwide clear at the click of a button with spark
>0.2 releases Huntress in another part of the tree with like no downsides, busted ascendancies, and the current most busted build of LS that rides around on a rhoa and just kills the entire map at full movement speed
>Warrior is still sitting there

>>717640086
if you never played poe1 then poe1. fully complete one season. kill all the bosses, see all the content etc. then drop it forever. next seasons will be 99% the same anyway and are not worth the time

>>717668134
>season

>>717664915
Think about the person who does this for thousands of hours you now know why the POE1 community is the biggest retards on the internet

>>717667557
>why do you keep on bringing up the scarab
Because you are insinuating Ziz created a problem for himself by farming a "boss" he didn't need to farm. You evoked the scarab discussion retard
>i dont have enough regal orbs
Again, you keep waffling between two separate points
Is the problem
>farming too much when you don't need gear
or
>not being able to get crafting mats you need to craft gear

Which problem are you saying Ziz had? If he was performing unecessary farming than using rares into regals to craft gear is an irrelevant exercise. Is that what you are trying to say? That both Ziz AND Jon are wrong because regals are pointless? So then why do you keep saying he should have had more and should have been applying them to gear? Which should he have been doing? Using regals or not because the content didn't necessitate it

Put a 2 second cooldown on the dodge, 2 charges. Slow down mobs, give more mobs attacks with AoE's you need to dodge out of.

I like how PoE1fags always claimed they were some high IQ players and the average PoE player was better than all other gamers, then PoE2 comes out and it turns out they can't even play the most simple game and gets filtered by mobs that move and snail pace.

>>717668086
Yeah the devs are retarded. The moment I saw they put ritual and expedition into the game I should have bailed

Knowing that their plan is to import all league mechanics from poe1 to poe2 I really dont understand why poe2 even exists

>>717668607
no one got filtered by 2 champ, it's just boring

>>717666143
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9K6OJEgLyU

>>717668685
>no one got filtered by 2 champ
Yeah POE1 players totally didn't have a melty over white mobs killing them

>>717668753
already nerfed

>>717668543
>Because you are insinuating Ziz created a problem for himself by farming a "boss" he didn't need to farm. You evoked the scarab discussion retard
no i actually invoked the fucking gambling mechanic that has been in the game since day 1. you LITERALLY don't know how the game works.
>During main campaign you can only buy a limited number of items in each Act from gambling vendors.
>This amount increases by 1 whenever you kill a unique monster in an Act and can store up to 100 purchases.
so what ziz was complaining about was repeatedly farming unique monsters for rare and magic items, vendoring them, and then gambling for upgrades.

>>717668782
never happened

>>717668870
no he wasn't complaining about that at all. He was complaining that regal orbs weren't common enough drops to use them in the campaign. The gamble farming came at the END of the campaign prior to maps. You are conflating two very different things. Very intentionally i might add.

>>717668941
>never happened
So we're just lying now?

>>717668994
https://youtu.be/YiFLwjFI4S4?t=3585
he said he probably got 4 regals in the campaign, then said he didn't disenchant any of the rares he found because he thought gambling was better.
so you have one item with 2 functions, you can turn it into gold, or you can turn it into a regal. he turned it into gold and then couldn't understand why he didn't have regals.
how the fuck is this a real problem kek

>>717669374
>he said he probably got 4 regals in the campaign, then said he didn't disenchant any of the rares he found because he thought gambling was better.
how do you misconstrue this statement as a problem with farming a boss again?
Why are you still conflating him boss farming at the END of the campaign, with getting regal orbs DURING campaign? Oh because you're a retard. Got it, we're done here

another tencent viral merketing campaign has started up

poop2 has no reason to exist

>>717669520
Well we are three weeks from the next league, they've started dropping teasers and we'll get a full trailer in a week or so

>>717669453
>During main campaign you can only buy a limited number of items in each Act from gambling vendors.
>This amount increases by 1 whenever you kill a unique monster in an Act and can store up to 100 purchases.
do you unironically not know what that means? have you ever played path of exile 2?
you can't waste all of your gold gambling in campaign by design unless you farm unique monsters to increase the vendor stock.

>>717669659
Im just gonna wait for actual release hopefully they make the campaign way less bullet spongey and make combos worth using

>they said during the 0.2.0 interview or so that most skills during 0.2.0 would intentionally be weak so they could go crazy with buffing them throughout the league
>league releases
>3-4months later
>they didn't buff skills at all during the league and 80% of the players used a single skill/build
Why did they lie?

>>717669907
The league was dead a month in and they packed it up for next league.

>>717670102
i'm pretty sure they added and changed a bunch of shit during 0.2. but yeah, who the fuck is playing an arpg after a month to even notice?

I remember when the disgusting roach fuck POE1 community pretended that they were sad about Chris leaving after they've been harassing him for years. I hope you lose POE1 you disgusting subhuman fucks

>>717631820 (OP)
I'm waiting for the official release aka 1.0, not matter how long it takes
Until then I would rather play other games

>>717670356
They did, but the bulk of those changes were within that month.

Just move on already

>>717669823
>you cant gamble unless you farm unique monsters
Okay and? He never stated that was the problem. You keep deflecting back to this because you can't defend the retarded idea that you should be regaling 2 stat items in campaign. You clearly should not.

I've played PoE since release. But everytime I play a new league recently, I can't escape the feeling of being the monkey in pic related when picking up orbs after blowing up a screen of mobs. I don't think this game is for me anymore.

>>717671080
>the retarded idea that you should be regaling 2 stat items in campaign. You clearly should not.
uhh why? why wouldn't you regal 2 stat items? you breakdown trash, regal good magic bases, 3:1 the bricks for 4 affix items. it really doesn't take long to get viable items in the campaign, it honestly isn't something you really need to think about if you have a loot filter.
the only time you really need to bother with your gear is the last zone before an act boss if you are under levelled or under geared, and thats 1 or 2 zone resets and vendor visits.

>>717671904
>uhh why?
because you neither get enough good 2stats, or enough rares to get a regal orb retard. You get MAYBE 1 rare item in act 1, 2-3 in act 2, and 5 in act 3. You don't really start dropping enough rares to trade for regal orbs until near the end of the campaign

>>717671904
>loot filter
lmao you don't need a loot filter in this game until maps. Nothing fucking drops

>>717672151
how is that different than poe 1? you don't even need to equip a body armor for the first 2-3 acts.
how much gear do shitters need to make it through the tutorial?

>>717672151
>You get MAYBE 1 rare item in act 1, 2-3 in act 2
Is your brain broken?

>>717631820 (OP)
PoE2 will always be shit and there was not a single time during development where it wasn't shit.

As other anons have probably already pointed out, the games systems is in odds with its core combat design, you can't design "slow and methodical action combat" gameplay and then have all of your players agency locked behind literal dice roll loot grinding to actually get any semblance of "gameplay" going.
Not only that but the enemies that players are fighting are so two-dimensional that even DOOM enemies from 1993 have more mechanical quirks and depth to them and instead of fixing these core issues the devs have decided to just make PoE 1.5 instead. Thank God that I didn't pay for this shit since I would have demanded my money back.

If anyone wonders what a GOOD take on "Dark Souls but Diablo" is then just play No Rest For The Wicked

>>717667768
>serves no purpose
???

>>717670992
>10 hours of content
Yeah we already moved on from TQ2

>>717672987
>here's your boss design, bro

>>717636334
not him, but I deleted all bosses in seconds with a 1ex budget detonate dead witch build by january. the only thing hindering me from popping some endgame bosses INSTANTLY was their invincibility phase.

>>717672983
>Thank God that I didn't pay for this shit
so you didnt even play the game? why the fuck are you speaking? you dont know what youre talking about

>>717672987
i know they are just quest versions but i found the pinnacle bosses pretty lackluster. i don't think we will see the uber versions anytime soon but i hope they are more involved.

>>717673423
He either didn't play it or is a retarded PoE pay piggie therefore being granted access for free very revealing

>>717644054
The solution is so fucking simple that the games that GGG are copying have already done it to some capacity. Put soft and/or hard powercaps on EVERYTHING, diminishing returns is a god tier design choice that only midwits don't understand the purpose of. Every souls game have already done it and they have done it to escape the exact problem that GGG is dealing with in PoE2

>>717673423
>>717673637
A friend gave a code to me, you do have friends right?

>>717674257
>diminishing returns
something so simple that even diablo 2 did it back in y2k.
at this point it has to be an intentional design, they don't care that you break the endgame, that's what it's there for, what they care about is that you come back next league

>>717674257
poe 2 is an arpg that wants to have a focus on mechanically challenging boss fights, marketing shorthand for mechanically challenging boss fights is the term 'soulslike'.
thats pretty much where it ends, nothing else about the game has any relation to dark souls in the slightest.
>>717674415
>something so simple that even diablo 2 did it back in y2k
poe 1 and 2 have the same kind of diminishing returns that d2 has.

>>717674321
>A friend gave a code to me
Why the fuck does your friends give you money? Are you poor?

>>717656743
>why would someone type that all out
the power of sperg

>>717632615
This person seems annoying and mentally ill. Nobody sane does anything like this. Nigga it is a video game, calm down.

>>717674696
>Why the fuck does your friends
Pot calling the kettle black lmao

just tried to play poop2 and couldnt get past the first zone with how bad the fucking combat is. Can't believe theres no way to turn of target locking with a fucking controller and theres STILL no auto-swap between controlled and kb/m

Let me know when this dogshit game actually becomes a pc game and not some dogshit console ripoff of poe1

>>717675739

>>717675739
>couldnt get past the first zone
I wouldn't brag about sucking that hard but at least you're honest?

>>717675739
Why are PoE1fags so bad at videogames?

>>717675916
>>717675943
>pretending i couldnt kill monsters instead of what my post said making fun of target lock console trash
lmao. pathetic

>>717674321
that sounds more like a boyfriend

ITT: Pseudo-intellectual shitters who have yet to finish the campaign using it as evidence for a gameplay design they want at odds with the real (end)game

>>717676369
>>717675739
who the fuck asked?

I liked it. The maps were really lame back when the game released, I've not played it since then

>>717631820 (OP)
ARPG's are supposed to be really fast. Not slow with roll dodge bullshit.

>>717676647
>ARPG's are supposed to be really fast.
says who? diablo 2 is slow too without enigma / sorceress.

>>717676471
>that sounds more like a boyfriend
Yeah was about to say that sounds like a "friend"

>>717676546
me you nigger

>>717676647
It's the other way around.

>>717676792
no it isnt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZ39j0uBIQ

>>717657807
Who's he?

>>717676971
breh he literally said 'unless you are using an enigma or playing sorc' and you link a sorc speedrun.

>>717676971
>sorceress teleport
the biggest blunder diablo 2 devs made was not giving it a cd, something literally every other game in the genre since has done.

>play a few hours of PoE
>hey this is pretty fun
>decide to try out PoE2 for a few hours
>hey this feels even better, but I guess it does need more time in the oven
>go back to PoE1
>it suddenly feels unplayable by comparison

>>717676971
kek got got by a inb4 like that, you probably don't even know the name of those classes.

>>717676792
>diablo 2 is slow too without enigma / sorceress.
Why would you play the game suboptimally?

>>717677334
poe 1 feels great when you are going 800 mph clearing several screens in every direction.

>>717677618
Kill yourself subhuman. how about you optimize your time by never going to /v/ ever again?

>>717632985
POE should just be a few games:
1. Harvest single palyer league where the drop rates are high and you can also make your own weapons fast and essentially have tier 1 gear for a week or 2 of playing.
2. normal trade league of Poe 1 : it takes time to get good items but it is not impossible or that hard, just play for a few months and you will ge tth etier 1 items.
3 Ruthless.
Because people want different stuff, the game cannot just be for everyone. I want 1. actually. I do not even really want to trade or play much to get god tier items. I can do that on Diablo 2 so... especially if single player where you can literally just modify the items via an item editor and the hero lvl is just an integer you can change.
You will call me names, I will call you mazed and that is that. the compromise is 2. - a normal PoE 1 trade league with "good" drops.

PoE just cannot be a game for all. I am sorry. Different people want different sutff. If Vampire Survivor fills the PoE void for me, you should realise that I never really want to fight 1 mob for 2 hours.

>>717677116
Uh oh melty!
anyway here's paladin doing the same thing with charge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZoZA4VNQMQ

poo2 sucks ass

>>717678212
>diablo 2 is slow unless youre playing sorc
>no it isnt, heres a fast sorc run to prove it
>I just said that retard
>uh oh melty!

>>717678317
internet average IQ has dropped as more of the third world got the internet. it used to be 13 year olds were shit posting making internet look dumb and now its just dumb

>>717678212
I wonder if you just look at the title and don't even see the run itself. Pathetic enough you're searching for speedruns of a 20 years old game as optimized as possible, but if you spent even a minute watching the actual footage, you would see his movement speed isn't even that fast, he's just really optimizing every move and skipping almost pretty much every non story boss encounter.

>>717678527
>his movement speed isnt that fast
>literally zooming at mach 10 through all of a2
retard

>>717676792
Don't need enigma to go fast on D2. I tele around super quick with this item and just destroy everything on the screen with my tornado Druid. D2 is only slow if you want it to be.

>>717678647
>don't need enigma to teleport, just need a teleport staff to teleport
true.

>>717678605
>"mach 10"
Compare this to PoE1 "optimized" movement speed, and don't forget the fact the charge kills like one enemy at best here and there, while people play PoE1 usually at double the speed AND clearing screen full of enemies at the same time.
Admit you lost already, it's so pathetic watching you squirm, but we all know at this point you'll just keep replying for the sake of keeping appearances up.

>I just need a level 78 staff to go le heckin fast
>level 1-78, oh just ignore that part

>>717678821
Yeah it's like your playing the game wrong if your not using teleport.

>>717678647
>heh, don't need that silly enigma to go fast, just need this level 78 staff with the exactly same spell people have mentioned being the broken movement shit that every single retard uses as the go-to of comparing Diablo2 to the ARPG garbage that gets throw out there, when at release like 5% of people at best made teleport builds in the game

>>717678994
>evel 1-78, oh just ignore that part
You can use one of these until your high enough level, just vendor it.

Their stupid idea of methodical combat falls apart the instant you hit end game because they give you limited tries. Imagine doing a boss in a Dark Souls game and you had to grind for two hours for each attempt. It just doesn't work. I think the XP penalty is retarded too but if anything they should just keep that but remove the limited attempts thing.

>>717678891
why would i compare a campaign run of the game happening in 1 hr to "optimized poe1 speed" which occurs over a matter of weeks? I'd compare that to top cast speed enigma

The real comparison is with poe2. And D2 is objectively faster than it. You lost, fucking cry about it bitchnigger

>>717679082
none of these lil gups played d2. They only know poe2 and think theyre resident arpg experts because they watched their favorite streamer talk about it one time

I still remember D2 release, such fun times. Me, my brother, and most of our cousins all playing the game all the time. Know a funny thing? Not a single person that I know made a sorc teleport build, only one played sorc and didn't bother with teleport at all.
Meanwhile, all the literal children here literally only bring up teleport build runs when talking about diablo 2. You wouldn't know there's a game outside of teleport if you went with what those retarded underage b& say.

>>717679397
Just gonna seethe now?

>>717679330
I played D2 as a kid a lot.
I dont remember much about it though besides killing Mephisto and Baal over and over.

I recently reinstalled because I thought there was a new update, when is the next update ?

Oh its 17, lmao you're a retarded nigger.
"Im an expert of D2" sure buddy, you haven't killed an Uber in PoE 1 yet lmao.

>>717679457
August 28th.

>>717679445
>just gonna seethe now
I'm seething so hard right now, you wouldn't imagine, I mean, you brought up a teleport build for the 100th time in those debates about diablo 2 speed. How could I ever see this coming?

i stopped i last league and didnt progress into maps at all mostly

is 0.3 the point to come back?

my retardo brain has to relearn """""crafting"""""" in this game again too

>>717679082
Yeah wow a whole 33 teleports until you need to break your early game bank of gold to recharge it good plan you dumb fuck

>>717679397
it's kind of fucked up to pretend that spamming teleport is a recent development in diablo 2.

>>717631820 (OP)
>game quite literally advertises itself before release on how they improved the gem system so you have an easier time and even more variety combining skill gems
>game releases into early access with the gems way more restricted than PoE1 to the point that some gems have specific restrictions on them so that can't do obvious combinations and what you are allowed to do is the few playstyles the devs approve of
I fucking hated this. The whole "oh no, but that would be overpowered" shit take that crept up on these games in recent years is so ass backwards. You want your souls experience and not mow down hordes of enemies in an ARPG? Just take your fucking armor off and don't skill anything - There, problem solved. Now don't fuck the game up for people who actually want have fun playing a video game.

They should have NEVER EVER marketed it like its a full game

>>717679082
Only place this matters is maggot lair.

>>717679881
It isn't fucked up to pretend that MOST people who have fond memories of diablo 2 probably didn't even bother with movement skills at all. It's literally only a handful of autists back then that actually would go with teleport builds that worked. Most people struggled to even beat the fully focusing on slow builds, imagine this zoom zoom shit. But I know that you subhumans of the era of going directly to a wiki to see the best build and simply copying it have no idea what I'm talking about.

>>717679618
You can get ones with more charges and gold is so easy to make its basically free.

>>717679964
They never did

>>717680068
you realize the internet existed way back then right? people used 'forum boards' to talk about games, they even had whole websites dedicated to vidya.

>>717680206
Yes they did, the cinematic, the 45min video, the way it was presented was like a full game
>inb4 they said early release
Yeah they did not market this game as an EA at all

>>717680084
Yeah just go vendor farming for more staves every 33rd teleport with your 0fcr character that's a good plan. I despise you POE1 players with every fibre of my being

>>717662407
>need to grind for 64236278 hours to get drops
>grinding isn't just mindless clicking, but slow soulslop (still boring as fuck after 3 hours) "combat"
Sounds like a great time!

>>717680257
retard

>>717680303
>no arguments
Kay bud

>>717680225
And if you went to those, you would see that 99% of people were doing their own builds, and they mostly sucked shit. MAJORITY of players back then struggled hard with Duriel, just because the very idea of doing something as basic as building ice resistance was not something they would think of. You just keep proving you weren't actually there, if you want to pretend everyone was muh teleporting sorc run since day 1.

>>717680281
>farming for more staves
You just repair them for gold and gold is incredibly easy to make.

>>717680338
>Debate my retarded points
no, retard. They were always clear and upfront with that the early access would feature on launch.

>>717680476
No use in "debating" a retarded specimen like you, anon

>>717680356
I think you were just bad at the game.

>>717680356
pretty sure the majority of players back then were running pindlebots and knew exactly what was up.

>>717680530
And that's the best you can come up with. At least you stopped pretending to have played the game at release.

>>717680520
>"No you"
lmao, fucking cromagnon ape person.

>>717680554
Dudes a retard who was shit at D2.

>>717680614
>still replying
Lmao i own you

>>717680068
>most people who have fond memories never used teleport
HOLY RETARD lmao. You can't actually be serious can? Every-fucking-ladder reset was sorc mfing into whatever build. You have got to be fucking kidding

>>717680257
it was marketed as a free to play game that was entering into a paid early access. nowhere was the game marketed as being complete.

>>717640086
Titan Quest II

>>717676792
You know there's this affix called run/walk speed, right? You should try stacking a proper amount of it. No, 20 is not enough. 80+ is respectable.

>>717680356
youre an absolute faggot

>>717680665
>ladder
0.1% of the total diablo 2 playerbase ever cared about that.
It really comes down to your niggers who are obsessed with this kind of pointless shit, really trying to pretend that teleport was something "everyone" did, huh. Hilarious.

>>717680728
He's gonna say that no one used that stat and everyone was a retard that struggled with normal duriel like him.

>>717680665
>ladder reset
Of course he played bottle net soulless subhuman retard

>>717680728
>No, 20 is not enough. 80+ is respectable.
People played games for fun back then, not to optimize their free time like you, subhuman.

>>717680634
You replied more times, get ratio'd bitchtits.

>>717680856
t. full str sorc

>>717680782
you have to just be trolling at this point. blizzsorc is/was one of the most iconic d2 builds.

>>717680962
With no tele and only using Blaze has his main skill.

>>717680962
Yeah, there was full str sorcs, and that guy was having the time of his life playing the game, as the game was easy as fuck and even if you died 100 times to the same boss, you would still eventually clear the game.

I hate efficiency players so much you ruined every game

when are they going to stop giving 1 regular updates and focus on fixing and completing 2? them trying to continue catering to an established playerbase that is not going to grow while allowing a potential new playerbase to erode away due to losing patience seems like one of the stupidest ways for a company to kill themselves.

>>717681007
Yes, it was iconic, as in that most people that played diablo 2, played in different ways, then after clearing the game and discussing it somewhere, sometimes they would see a sorc player posting their meta slave build, and just look at it and go "wow crazy you can go that fast huh", and that's it.
You will never have a point. I was there, you won't rewrite history by bringing up the fact that teleport focused sorc builds existed back then.

>>717681194
You were the one arguing that D2 is a slow game when there are multipul ways to zoom around at turbo speeds.

am i the only person that enjoys every single ARPG? i dont even see differences in them its all the same shit

>>717679618
Oh no, my ral + chipped gem. That aside, it's not exactly hard to check the vendor for cheap spare staffs whenever you visit town.

>>717681194
i assume most people didn't farm pindleskin either....

>>717681287
>there are MULTIPLE ways to zoom-zoom
there's one skill among hundreds that go actually really fast, and everything else is just stacking a stat that most people who played the game would discard on sight.

>>717631820 (OP)
Just power creep issues.
When players are able to get back to full life in half a second, the only way to threaten them anymore is to make things oneshot you.
So why build defensive at all anyway? Better to go full glass cannon anyhow and just oneshot the mobs in 3 screens around you as you fly around the zones anyhow.

>>717632615
>Pop it into my preferred data compressor
>Says the writer is retarded
As expected.

>>717681403
Frenzy barbs are fucking fast, burst of speed on assassin makes her fuckin fast, charge for the pallies and everyone can teleport. D2 is a fast game.

>>717681194
>you won't rewrite history by bringing up the fact that teleport focused sorc builds existed back then.
or you could actually go to the d2 forums that still exist and read forum posts from 2003-4 talking about all of this shit.

>>717662428
Nah, poe 2 is simply boring shit. It is much easier on build making part actually

>>717681641
No you don't understand! everyone was retarded and never used teleport ever!!!

>>717681641
Do tell me how only the people who visited diablo/blizzard forums played the game.
I know it triggers you at this point, but you know, MOST people who played diablo 2 likely didn't browse a diablo 2 focused forum at all.

>>717681403
>stacking a stat that most people who played the game would discard on sight.
Confirmed for never having played the game. Even back in classic rare boots had to be fucking godlike to not be considered trash if they didn't have movespeed.

>>717682041
>Even back in classic rare boots had to be fucking godlike to not be considered trash if they didn't have movespeed.
t.ladderposter
considered dogshit? people would wear trash uniques because they think the image looked cool. Wear shit armor because they wanted the colour of their gear to be different.
You ladder/forum autists were a minority among a minority. Show us the most popular forum of all time that discussed diablo 2, and see if the user count comes even close to a million.

>>717681813
do you think people didn't have or use the internet in the early 2000s or something, like what the fuck are you talking about right now? it was a multiplayer game and most people were playing on bnet. they used the official forum, gamefaqs and d2jsp.

>>717631820 (OP)
>make extremely successful game
>make a sequel
>make it nothing like the first game
>people hate it
>change it to be more like the first game wasting millions of dollars in the process
>still refuse to admit you were wrong
the jonatroon clasic

>>717680782
>0.1% oif the playerbase cared about battlenet
No. And just like back then, you fucking casuals try to come in and make a game cater to you by claiming retarded bullshit. It was never for you. It was never slow, or methodical. It was never dark, gritty and scary. Those are marketing terms. D2 was about ladder resets and end game loot hunt. You got to end game far faster than even current poe1 because you lobby hopped to tristan, then to duriel, valley of snakes, etc -arreat etc. You got to farming baal runs in a matter of a few hours. Then you got your occy, and your other mf shit and farmed mephisto.

The very idea that people played the campaign slow is ridiculous. Casuals did that. So fuck off.

>>717681403
Barbs, amazons, and pallys can all be fast you dumbass

>>717682609
this is 100% factual.

>>717662407
d1 is fast
d2 is fast
d3 is fast
d4 is fast
titan quest is fast
torchlight is fast
poe is fast
grim yawn is fast
every arpg player wants a fast game
everyone who ACTUALLY plays these games make their build fast
this is a multi generational interest
jonathan was somehow deluded into thinking the best arpg is slow, has no loot, is ultra punishing, has no crafting and is 100% style over substance

>>717682775
Yup, gotta go fast to farm well.

>ugh I hate poe2 because it just turns into the same go-fast-screen-clear as poe1
>ugh I hate poe2 because you cant go-fast-screen-clear
Which is it dammit

>>717682775
you can ~50 remaining t16 maps in poe 2 in a few minutes. it's actually faster than the current poe 1 endgame mapping metas by several minutes.

>>717682220
closed b.net poster actually. ladder, nonladder and classic
You doing retarded meme builds in singleplayer is perfectly fine, but it sure as shit doesn't mean everyone intentionally did retarded shitbuilds for lulz.

>>717683020
Players find go fast creen clear builds in PoE 2 and then the devs nerf it because they are retarded. The devs are trying to make a game that no one wants lol.

>>717683020
Are you playing the current Lightning meta skill? If yes than it's the first, if not then it's the second.

>>717681440
GGG dont understand this concept, which is why every “slowing down the game” they attempt to make both in poe 1 and in poe 2 ends up being shit. You cannot make a game where both defence and mechanical skill matters UNLESS there is an actual parrying mechanics as a default for every build and it is viable both for swarms of mobs and single enemies(read: overpowered shit). The same way you cant really have slow and methodical gameplay in an ARPG game. There will always be a point at which player power goes higher than a certain level of mobs and that goes for end-game bosses too.

>>717682775
and all of those games are dogshit and poe2 was better at launch. jonathan is trying to save your terrible-ass genre and you faggots are so addled that you won't let him. you're literally opiate addicts who should be thrown in a padded cell.

>>717683067
You didn't answer me, subhuman. how many people were in your forums? did it even scratch 1% of the total playerbase of the game? No, it did not. Keep playing at your separated sandbox from the rest of actual humans.

>>717683020
Balance is so bad, lightning spear amazon is 1 and everything else is 2.

>>717632615
can I get the grok summary on this slop?

>>717683340
GGG makes too many obviously fixable mistakes because NZ as a country has only ever made PoE1, and NZ law prevents people from hiring outside NZ. Here is a list of all those mistakes:

0.3 is going to be a kino

>>717682609
>hours
That's for casuals. When I played, we'd regularly rush each other from 1 to cows in an hour. That included grinding sewers to 20 with a pet enchant sorc and blastbark or whatever the unique bow with exploding arrow was called.

>occy
Ew, gross. Give me Wizardspike or give me death (to random teleports).
i quit before spirit was added

>>717663975
I stopped playing at Act 2 because I refuse to play a game that puts my grinded character into a useless server for all eternity once it releases

>>717633929
I hope Turd Ferguson gets his anus raped repeatedly by Diablo for what he did to that franchise.

>>717683883
Pretty sure that's how you get employed as head of diablo

>>717683061
>conflates time with speed
You absolute nigger

>>717633929
No one will miss him

>>717683226
The ladder being alive and supporting hundreds of thousands of players is exactly why d2 I'd considered timeless and why it is considered the grandfather of arpgs. No one would be around to talk about it if it was just a really good single player experience. No one speaks about it that way uts always in the context of its longevity which is ladder

>>717683216
>addicts who should be thrown in a padded cell.
I will greatly enjoy the last day POE1 ever gets a update. A thousand mazed supporter monkeys will screech out and then complete silence.

I honestly went back to D2R. The only thing I miss is that the Warrior feels a bit better to play than Barb early on.

>>717683959
because poe 2 has lots of fast builds, both in movement speed and clear speed.
a quick google search is all you really need there.
spark, bows, spears, trampletoe, beira's anguish(pre and post nerf), crossbows, grenades.
>but i played a slow shit build and it was slow and shit!
yeah thats a (you) problem.

>>717683226
>random irrelevant nonsense
Fuck if I know how many people did x, y or z 20 years ago. I used to hang on diabloii.net and blizzards own forum every once in a blue moon. I also used to have the arreat summit memorized right down to windforce having the wrong level req listed for the longest time.

Anyway it's very obvious you're either pic related, a genuine autist that can't fathom people having different experienses than you, or a (You)farming retard. Word your next reply very carefully if you want to keep this convo going.

>>717684070
Damn, you're actually delusional, aren't you? Well, at this point, I can only feel sorry for you.
I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but most people will literally never care or engage with ladder garbage, Your kin is the exact same shit as speedrunners, but for ARPGs, and just like speedrunners, people look at you as some kind of animal that is fun to watch sometimes, but that's all the interaction we'll ever want with you. Seeing how the game be "broken", is fun, but it really isn't actually any fun for people to play something while actively trying to engage as little as possible with enemies' mechanics.

>>717684161
Same but i am playing Project Diablo 2 instead.

>>717682775
see >>717676932
0.001% of the playerbase finding a broken build to "go fast" doesn't reflect the game

>>717684190
False. There are no fast builds in poe2. Neither spark nor spears would be considered fast in the context or movement or animation speeds. There was temporalis and qotf in 0.1 but those were both nerfed. The game has horrid moment to moment gameplay

>>717684543
i never said broken build
you can go fast with a basic bitch league start that 90% of players use
just say you dont play the game and move on

>>717684326
>keep avoiding answering
>pretends to have the high ground
You're the one who's begging for my attention, pretending to have a point. I'll be glad if you give up already. There's a reason even the most shilled of all current ARPGs, PoE 1, only has basically managed to keep less than 10% of their audience playing the ladder game, because MOST. PEOPLE. DON'T. CARE. about optimizing a single player game. Now, stay quiet, for your own good.

>>717684371
>but it really isn't actually any fun for people to play something while actively trying to engage as little as possible with enemies' mechanics.
you mean like skipping immune packs in diablo 2? oh right NO ONE did that.. no one actually played diablo 2 outside of killing andy once, no one knew about the andy quest bug, and for sure no one knew about the secret cow level.

>>717684371
You understand that nearly all the devs of poe1 and thus poe2 by proxy, were ladder players in d2? And they got their initial inspiration from d2 ladder? That an online trade economy is a significant pillar in both of their games? That poe2 is online only and isn't catering to some casual meme build audience? The only delusional one here is you

>>717684647
Every non broken build plays slowly in games like diablo 2, try again

>>717684615
i was in /poeg/ months ago and some retard was going off about time and speed and bragging about his level whatever throw barb, this feels eerily similar to that.

>>717684772
>devs
>most people
Oh, and sure, their approach was incredibly successful with the player base they TRIED to pander to.

did they fix the shit drops or do you still get mostly useless items?

>>717631820 (OP)
>8K PLAYERS

>did this really start out as dogshit game and become dogshit game

>>717684976
It's an obvious conflating, when people say that poe2 isn't fast they are referring to the gameplay

>>717685018
Are there any ARPG's with good loot?

>>717684615
>The game has horrid moment to moment gameplay
Name your favorite game that has good moment to moment gameplay.

>>717631820 (OP)
It never had methodical Souls-like combat. Only ARPG niggers who never played a real action game in there life said this.

>>717685210
Poe1

>>717685264
>One button spam good
Spotted the retard.

>>717685150
and you are using a vague random definition of gameplay which will change to suit whatever retarded point you are trying to make.

>>717685210
poe 1 has awful moment to moment gameplay, it's incredibly outdated and only feels marginally better than diablo 2.

>>717685382
You're gonna tell me poe2 isn't one button spam? Every build you mentioned as fast - spark , lightning spear. Beiras ignite (literal walking simulator), grenades, bows

All of those are 1button spam. What differentiates them in your mind from poe1 builds? Go ahead and explain exactly what you are pressing in combat that's so varied in poe2.

Fucked up that a quarter of a century later and NOX is still the best ARPG ever made.

>>717685642
>Every build you mentioned as fast - spark , lightning spear
Lightning spear uses marks to generate Frenzy charges so its always at least 2 button build. Why do you come here and talk shit about a game you have obviously not played?

>>717631820 (OP)
For me, it was having to run through Acts 1-3 a second time before hitting the endgame.

>>717685393
My definition is very concrete, you're the one conflating how long it takes to do some in game action with what the action actually looks like on screen. Everyone who played poe2 knows what I'm fucking talking about and can understand what I'm saying except you. Why is that? Why can you not just say poe2 is a slower game and you like it that way because you have shit reaction time and are a fucking casual . At least argue in good faith about what you are bitch

>>717685734
Marks are automated you faggot nice cope
>waahhh wahh I can't afford an offhand sceptre waahhh wahhh my act 6 meme build that I quit on day 2 with didn't have that setup!!
Like I said, you're a fucking casual

>>717685774
>looks like
lmao so your 'concrete' definition is literally subjective.

>>717685903
lightning spear is an aoe clear skill sis. every 'lightning spear build' is using a secondary single target skill.

>>717685774
>>717685903
>Marks are automated
>Wahhh instaclearing entire screen is emergent challenging gameplay!
If you use cast on shock its inefficient and you have to keep spamming mana button instead. Filthy fucking reddit dad casual. Play the game and then come back here.

>>717685970
The human mind can perceive speed. If you showed a person two cars one moving at 20 mph and another at 60, you could easily tell the difference

>>717684845
wrong
you dont play the game

>>717686081
>its inefficient
In what way is automating mark inefficient retard?

>>717684845
>Every non broken build plays slowly in games like diablo 2
I dunno, trap sin with burst of speed and good movment speed boots is pretty fast.

>>717686228
>Its not a 2 button build OKAY?!!!
>keeps spamming mana button
lmao what a retarded tranny.

poo 2 AKA poop2 lost

>>717686261
Ummm your mana leech retard? What are you even talking about? So now suddenly if you have tovpress a mana flask that's part of combat action? Sir poe1 has 5 flasks you have to hit so I guess that's way more than 1 button spam. Whoops!!!

>>717686090
yeah maybe you should look up the difference between subjective and objective.

>>717632615
Did Alk write this? lmao

>>717686307
Lost to whom?

>>717659116
Any dumb nigger (such as yourself) that wants Soulslike slow tacticool gamepray for chink niggers is retarded. An ARPG cannot reasonably be a game where you start weak and slow and stay weak and slow. That is outright bad design.

The decision to split the games was so laughably fucking bad lmao

>>717664251
It is fucking rich that an ARPG fan like you has the gall to badmouth ANY of the mechanics from ANY other genre.

>>717686812
half the people who play poe 1 struggle with the system requirements as is so they would all get filtered by the engine update. the seething would be off the fucking charts.

>>717686496
If I said the 60mph car was moving faster than the 20mph car and didn't make a claim to the exact speed, is that a subjective statement, or an objective one?

>>717687039
And yet, poe2 players were too dumb to capcres for merveil....

>>717687284
i would say you are a fucking retard who doesn't understand basic english or grade school science.

>>717686531
every arpg on the market

>>717686812
actually its great
jonathan can ruin poe2 and leave poe1 alone
and all the poo eaters can have their own game and get the fuck out of poe1
probably the last good decision chris made before he left

>>717687358
campaign is balanced around 0 res in both poe1 and poe2

>>717688116
>can't even come up with a specific example
Concession accepted.

>>717688198
No not really. Only in poe2

>>717687672
Okay but that doesn't answer my question. Can I objectively deduce something based on logic or no?

>>717687061
>all the PoE2 shitflinging is from poorfag broke thirdies who can't manage to run it
>hence their reliance on their e-celeb's opinions, fitting given their natural submissiveness and affinity towards servitude
>hence their calling it poop2 being pajeets projecting
at last I truly see...

>>717688635
how fast is this moving?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zuq_s3jtBeM

>>717688218
cope poo2 lost

>>717688946
I dont know, that's not the comparison I made. Can you logically deduce which of 2 vehicles is moving faster than the other based on a specific reference point a fixed vantage point, and observing the movement of the vehicles in comparison to one another?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Whb4a2nIRYE
which vehicle is moving faster ? The jet or the car? Can you tell based on observation alone and make an objective statement given the data in this footage? Would it be a subjective claim or an objective one?

>>717687358
>capcres for merveil....
Who needs cap res for merveil? Every time a POE1 mazed rat talks he outs himself

>>717689565
post gauntlet glove

>>717631820 (OP)
Have they fixed this yet? They destroyed every build in the 2.0 patch even though the game was already deeply unrewarding and the drops were fucking shit they decided that making it exponentially slower and more unrewarding was the obvious way forward.
I had like 300+ hours in the game and hadn't even started playing until mid-January and I logged on once in 2.0 and never again.

>>717689463
>I dont know
yeah i figured that out awhile ago.

>>717632045
Exactly, in Souls, drops are guaranteed so this was never going to be a Souls game. This genre is nothing like Souls and there is no in-between.
>>717662407
He's right.

>>717689636
>post gauntlet glove
Can any mazed rat translate for me? How does this relate to Merveil?

Last Epoch season 3 will annihilate this rollslop garbage.

>>717689795
I accept your concession

>>717689942
he thinks because in the hc ssf gauntlet you need to have gear for the giga juiced act bosses that somehow that applies to the base game. ignoring the fact that most hc players usually finish act 1 with a few pieces of gear equipped.

>>717690073
>Last Epoch
The only ARPG that plays worse than POE1

>>717690073
thank you for bumping the thread to your favorite game dishonestly, it was on page 10 :) Next time bait with TQ2 not last epoch

>>717690073
>Last Sleepoch
It's almost as boring as Grim Yawn

>>717690114
you enjoy that subjective concession sister, you earned it.

>>717690293
twas an objective concession thoughbeit. Sorry for your 1 digit IQ

>>717690391
didn't look that way to me

>>717690740
does a schizophrenic invalidate the possibility of an objective reality?

>>717690808
idk anon, does it?
>you're the one conflating how long it takes to do some in game action(objective) with what the action actually looks like(subjective) on screen.

>>717631820 (OP)
Why do retards think that souls invented dodging in games

>>717691295
actions can be timed. The speed of a thing can be objectified in any number of ways. Including by comparing it to another object.

You posted an optical illusion where the observer was in motion. Me, sitting at my computer observing things move across a screen is not the same thing. My persepective stays exactly the same. If I observe two like objects from my perspective moving at different speeds, I can objectively conclude one is moving "faster" than the other, without being subjective.

This is reality. Observational deductions can be used all the time to come to objective conclusions. Just because you are irrational and don't understand this, doesn't mean the objective world no longer exists.

>>717631820 (OP)
Items and multiplicative damage did this. When people got to act 3 and found or bought their first increased physical damage by 100% and add 50 physical damage to their weapon and did literally 6x their previous dps the gig was up and the game got exposed as gay one button numbers shit. Before that it was the greatest arpg I've played.. gg

>>717690198
>that somehow that applies to the base game
I have no words

>>717631820 (OP)
no, it has always been trending toward this but the dev team can't pick a fucking lane

>>717691550
what an action looks like to you is irrelevant.
if an attack takes .5 seconds it takes .5 seconds.

>>717689914
>He's right.
nope >>717676932

>>717692065
>what an action looks like to you is irrelevant
wrong. Unless you're saying no objective observations of reality can be made. But then you also couldn't time things either because you are relying on your observations to time that thing.

Are you one of those retards that claim people can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps? Can you tell the difference between red and blue?

>>717691826
They picked a lane, its just absolute fucking dogshit, nobody liked it, and now they're backpedaling.

>>717692423
I liked it. I just didnt like how unfinished it was, thats all.

>>717631820 (OP)
GGG should've created an MMORPG instead of PoE2

>>717632045
>grinding games MUST be fast
you don't know shit

Why are there no suitable backups while I wait for poe2 to finish

>>717692523
why aren't people who liked it playing it?

>>717692735
Because it's not done. I literally just said that.

The idea of an arpg that has slow, methodical, and engaging gameplay is much more appealing than actually playing one. Arpgs have literally never ever had that type of gameplay. they all play exactly like Poe1, just at varying gamespeeds. The only difference between ANY of them are the loot and progression systems. The core gameplay has remained unchanged since titan quest

>>717692349
i mean i was mostly shitposting back and forth assuming you were trolling and shitposting, but i don't actually think you understand the difference between objective and subjective.
i'll give you a real world example using path of exile.
>i equip a mageblood and quicksilver flask, my character now moves at a constant 200% movespeed(this is objective)
>after a few days i get used to that constant 200% movespeed and i don't feel fast (this is subjective)
i assume this will confuse the fuck out of you so all of this is a moot point, no more (you)s.

>>717693245
>The idea of an arpg that has slow, methodical, and engaging gameplay is much more appealing than actually playing one.
And yet Ive played and enjoyed all the Souls games.

>>717693468
heres your (you)

>>717682775
I actually like the campaign a lot in poe2 since most of the bosses feel meaningful to engage with, and to a lesser extent the mobs and layouts of each zone. It starts to suck in Cruel when you're just doing the same shit but now you trivialize everything.
If we're going to be slow, it should be extremely rewarding to kill pretty much anything, and bosses should have big enough HP bars and the game should be balanced that no one is killing them in 2 seconds until they've overplayed the fuck out of the game.

>>717693693
>nobody actually likes playing methodical arpgs
>I liked this one
>shut up

>>717693356
>I dont feel as fast
this is not relevant to the point i was making
Can you as an outside observer from a fixed vantage point, with a stationary reference point, visually determine the faster of 2 vehicle passing you on a straight road?

All you have to do is answer that question.

>>717692193
These games aren't really RPG's in any sense of the word. They're random item generators with enormously large pools of loot which 99.9999% of the time are absolutely worthless. So do players want to slowly sift through shit in a completely unrewarding system or blast through at 100mph and still receive shit but receive 10x more shit so potentially getting a good drop 10x sooner.
The player numbers speak for themselves. Even when people were blasting through the game was deeply unrewarding and they made it exponentially worse.

>>717692735
>False dichotomy
Why is Zaccie surprised from that? It might be a great game, maybe one of the greatest ARPGs, but its not fucking done at all, so yes people are going to wait for more content regardless of how good it is. Half of the passive tree is a barren wasteland, half of the ascendancies aren't even in the game, as well as multiple classes, half of campaign isn't even in, the game is objectively not even half finished as a prototype. Get back to work fuckers.

>>717694198
its not an arpg retard

ARPG combat is fine for boss fights but there is no reason for map clearing to be a slog fest.

>>717695043
Because...?

>>717632989
I think they just made the end game that way because people would have complained if there wasn't one and they just don't have the combat complexity scaling at that level quite figured out yet. it was also easier for them to do it that way purely because its just copying poe1. it'll get fixed overtime as they learn more on how to improve the obviously very early build of the game we have.

>>717695225
Because the majority of people you would ask would say its not. They would say its a souls game\ soulslike
i dont make the rules thats how genres work, and if were gonna have a conversation about the genre of games that includes games like Poe1, 2, titan quest, and diablo, we're not going to include dark souls.

>>717695542
Google disagrees with you.

>>717695618
again heres your (you)

>>717695661
Thanks xir.

>>717631820 (OP)
no, the game design forced players to do a ARPG spam build that zoom zooms
early game is fun and slow, I enjoy it
but they made the lategame a slog

>>717695618
there are more than 1 kind of arpg. dark souls is a zelda-like not a diablo-like.

>>717695730
Okay so its an arpg.

>>717695978
I wouldnt expect anything more than this from someone who eats up slop like Dark Souls 3

>>717695725
When you make certain drops a 1/1000 chance, I don't know what you, as a developer want from a game. Do you want 99.999% of the playerbase to never see these items which make 0.001% of players ridiculously OP?
They seem to want to have their cake and eat it, but the problem is that the cake is made of shit.

0.3 will save it trust the plan

>>717695978
it would be more apt to call it an action adventure rpg because of the emphasis on exploration and realtime combat, kind of like cyberpunk or the farcry games.

Diablo 2 isnt fucking slow
The progress of being able to farm nightmare to being able to farm at least a1 hell is equal to going from lvl 0 to red maps in poe
Its two completely different approaches to the gameplay, there are people who pretend if you beat diablo/baal on normal you beat the game,
Just because you are not lvl 95 for 99% of your gametime doesnt mean d2 is slow, the way you play is more zoomy than fucking torchlight or grim yawn

>>717694196
>bosses feel meaningful to engage with
you have a bad build(no i dont mean meta or anything to do with it)
a good build trivializes all bosses in the game
just like poe1

>>717631820 (OP)
not really, i think that's a callously revisionist timeline that seems to assume GGG got it perfect first try and only changed because of bad feedback - but i'll engage with it in good faith with one good example to prove it wrong.

if you think of the typical Souls encounter with a basic enemy - some little freak runs up to you, then it slowly strafe walks menacingly, then it rears up with it's weapon to strike, and you can literally walk away from it to then punish the animation.

but in PoE2 at first, enemies could literally animation cancel and keep hounding you, keeping lockstop to your movement and stick to you, not committing to an attack until their hitboxes were already out. this is the opposite of methodical and souls-like because it made the whole movement system pointless, even though they added lots of smoothness there like moving whilst casting and shooting (albeit slowly).
oh and there are 10-20 of those basic enemies that are fast, drop poison clouds, mix of range+melee, decent amount of health, etcetc, not 1-3.

they changed this pretty quickly because they realized... that doesn't fucking work - a step in the right direction if the intent is to have some souls-like reacting to enemies, spacing, movement, punishes etc.

further to that, the only builds that were really successful in "endgame" were auto trigger blasters, which they keep wanting to nerf in place of making the fundamentals better. they just aren't there yet.

i'm sympathetic to them because they are just some bros trying to make a game and not some bunch of queers making bad stuff on purpose, they are just very inexperienced and have a lot of iteration to go. so PoE2 is in a pretty bad state for now regardless of what their goal is.

>>717697358
>not really, i think that's a callously revisionist timeline that seems to assume GGG got it perfect first try and only changed because of bad feedback
they did

>>717697358
Good take, let the kiwis cook and theyll figure out what works.

>>717697609
PoE has never improved as a game. What makes you think that PoE2 is going to get better?

>>717698829
Because thats a lie, poe1 has improved as a game

>>717697358
>upvoted

>>717696497
Honestly, I think they fucked it up so badly with 0.2 that they might have completely blown it. Destroying every viable skill pissed me the fuck off.

>>717631820 (OP)
No it didn’t and this thread didn’t need 500+ replies to tell you that.

>>717699402
yeah they did the same thing to poe 1 like 30 times since the game launched.

>>717699371
The combat has always been awful, balance swings all over the place, mechanic bloat makes it extremely difficult to get started, no auction house. The existence of so many third party tools just shows how poor quality PoE is.