Thread 717670863

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yeah start open war with the thalmor so they team up with the empire to castrate skyrim
very smart

Ulfric's vision for Skyrim is unsustainable and I'm tired of people pretending it is just because he's "le based". An independent Skyrim can work, but not the way Ulfric wants to do it.

stormcloak elites have chosen an ally. it is what it is.

>>717671515
>be Dragonborn
>massacre the entire embassy
>???
>???

>>717671515
>start open war against the imperials for the right to worship a breton god from their pantheon
yeah you're right that is pretty fucking silly, why did nords forsake their own religion?

This is why Ulfric's claim that the war is about free worship of Talos is bullshit political rhetoric to raise a rebellion. If he only wanted that, he could have simply staged an assault on the Thalmor embassy and gotten Skyrim sucked into a war with an external force rather than a civil one. During that war, they could have worshiped Talos freely because the White-Gold Concordat would be moot already. They could have allied with Hammerfell who was already at odds with the Thalmor, or any other number of options that would be less devastating to Skyrim than a civil war.

But instead, it was always about making Ulfric the High King because he's arrogant and selfish. He made zero attempts at cooperation before launching a civil war over pointless bullshit.

What happens if the Thalmor take over Skyrim and why do the Empire submit to them so willingly? I'm not very knowledgeable of Elder Scrolls lore. Is the Dominion actually really powerful/large? Because nothing in Skyrim really suggests that they have some huge military force. Just that they have the Emperor's nudes and a couple of field agents in low level armor.
>tl;dr
What is it that keeps everybody else from destroying the Dominion?

>>717673419
Sybille Stentor has pretty good dialogue about that
>"Why was Torygg killed?"
>"Because Ulfric needed a symbol. Someone he could defeat that represented the Empire, the White-Gold Concordat, the banning of Talos worship. Torygg's father Istlod had held Skyrim together for nearly 25 years. When he died, Torygg became that symbol"
>"So the war started when Istlod died?"
>"No. Even after Istlod died, the moot voted to make Torygg High King of Skyrim. But Ulfric was at that moot, continually talking about Skyrim's independence in terms just shy of treason. I don't think Ulfric knew how much Torygg respected him for that. If Ulfric had asked Torygg directly to stand up, to declare independence, Torygg might have done it"
Instead he decided to kill the dude that looked up to him and make brothers and sisters fight each other for the next however many years
>"Ulfric showed up at the gates of Solitude requesting an audience. We thought he was here to ask Torygg to declare independence. By the time we realized Ulfric was here to challenge Torygg... it was already too late. By Nord custom, once the challenge was issued in court, Torygg had no choice but to accept. Had he not, Ulfric would have had cause to call a new moot and a new vote for High King. Torygg had some martial training, of course, but it mattered little that day. When Ulfric's lips parted, when he unleashed the power of the Thu'um... That Shout, that ancient and terrible tongue... ripped Torygg asunder"

None of this affects exploring dungeons for loot.

Why does the prisoner transport approach from the south road?

>>717673832
>"Although victorious, the Imperial armies were in no shape to continue the war. The entire remaining Imperial force was gathered in Cyrodiil, exhausted and decimated by the Battle of the Red Ring. Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year. Titus II knew that there would be no better time to negotiate peace, and late in 4E 175 the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion signed the White-Gold Concordat, ending the Great War"
On top of Legion forces being severely depleted and having suffered devastating losses, a number of major cities in Cyrodiil were under Dominion control at the time, Dominion territory had not even been touched, and with the destruction of the Blades network it is uncertain how much intel the Empire had access to through their surviving intelligence network. Not only was the Empire on their back foot in their own home territory, they had no way of knowing how many forces the Thalmor still had in reserve. So they took advantage of the momentary reversal and upper hand that they won through the victory at the Battle of the Red Ring and the decimation of the main Dominion army to leverage as much of an advantageous diplomatic position as they could. Before the battle, the Dominion considered the war all but theirs and expected Mede to surrender; after the battle, he was able to at least force them into a temporary peace to give the Empire a chance to rebuild and prepare.

>>717673832
>>717674751
Tullius admits that the current peace is just a temporary reprieve before the next Great War. Implied in-game, the Empire's plan was to agree to the Dominion's terms on a surface level while they recovered from the war and prepared for the next one breeding a new generation of soldiers, without truly making an effort to enforce the Talos ban as stated by a few NPCs in the game. What elves lack in numbers make up in longevity, meaning 25 years after the war by the time of Skyrim, the Empire is just getting around to being ready and having enough young recruits/soldiers with skill and experience. You've also got the Thalmor actively trying to sabotage the Empire and helping instigate conflicts like the Skyrim civil war to weaken them, and the loss of control of Hammerfell. Unfortunately for the Empire, once Ulfric started making noise, they had no choice but to enforce the ban on Talos lest the Dominion declare war before they were ready, which lead to a whole province-wide diversion in the form of the civil war.

>>717674385
That's just the icing on the cake.

>>717670863 (OP)
What are the Thalmor supposed to represent?

>>717673861
>Ulfric started shit and ultimately killed Torygg in front of his wife because he hated Istlod, all without even talking to Torygg
And this is the best choice for High King of Skyrim? A dude who goes whole hog with sins of the father and acts like an impulsive idiot instead of doing anything resembling diplomacy?

>>717674726
Ralof says they were "on their way to Darkwater Crossing", not that they made it there when they were ambushed. As for why Helgen, Darkwater Crossing is deep within Stormcloak territory, and while Whiterun is more pro-Imperial than not it still remains neutral. Riverwood's also within Whiterun Hold and is therefore also neutral. Helgen however is within Falkreath Hold; it was supposedly the closest Imperial-held town to where the prisoners were captured. As for why you spawn in the road that leads to Pale Pass it's because Bethesda wanted the first few seconds of the game to be the player "coming from Cyrodiil into Skyrim" and they just fucked up the logistics of everything else, most likely.

>>717674751
>>717674835
What exactly is the Dominion's endgame? Are they just bored?

>>717671713
>I'm tired of people pretending it is just because he's "le based".

It is just because it is just. That's it. Fantasy Norway belongs to Fantasy Norwegians. There is nothing else to consider, it's theirs and that's it.

>>717675008
Don't ask questions

>Wait a second why are you attacking the Empire that invaded you and is currently occupying you and not traveling an extra 200 miles to attack military outposts?
>>717673832
LITERALLY just the Empire, which was the strongest power probably - sitting right in the middle of the continent. The Thalmor are off on some irrelevant island, they invaded the Empire, and from there - that centrally located point - they can launch invasions on the rest of the mainland using their vassal state.
As much as the Empire was conquered by the Thalmor so too were the little states around it, and probably in the first place nobody really recognized the threat of the Thalmor anyway - at this point with a weakened empire nobody cared about the Thalmor and were probably just as likely to invade the Empire in its weakened state.

>>717675472
People will write 300 paragraph long twitter essays about how it's REALLY about something else, but this is the answer. It's just natives telling foreigners (correctly) to get out.

>>717673419
>it was always about making Ulfric the High King because he's arrogant and selfish
the arrogant and selfish ones were the solitude guards for refusing to recognize his rightful position as high king

>>717675423
>What exactly is the Dominion's endgame? Are they just bored?
They're trying to end the world. Like literally end everything everwhere.

>>717673832
Anon you're asking the right question but replace Thalmor with Israelis and Empire with US and you have our current political atmosphere.

>>717675472
>>717675596
Seems like a pretty short-sighted way to run a nation. Military and trade alliances aren't made because the nations involved are weak.

>>717675736
>It's pretty short-sighted that England is for the English
I don't think so, the opposite would be short-sighted.

>>717675392
Weirdest part is you can trigger dialogue during Before The Storm where both Ralof and Hadvar suggest The Last Dragonborn is actually from Cyrodiil, something they should in theory have no knowledge about. Not to mention the fact that The Pale Pass has been closed due to weather conditions, preventing Imperial reinforcements to Falkreath.
Really feels like these dudes just made shit up as they went along. George Lucas could've penned a better script.
Actually that would be funny as fuck; The Elder Scrolls VI, written by George Lucas.

>>717670863 (OP)
They execute the Justicar living in Markarth and have battles with the Thalmor in random encounters in the wild

>>717675472
Skyrim already belongs to the Nords, and if it weren't for Ulfric, there would not be a single Thalmor in Skyrim to begin with.

>>717672018
Can still start a war with either Skyrim or the Empire if neither state does anything about it internally. Hell, the Thalmor may even demand said Dragonborn be extradited to their territory specifically to execute them personally. This is one of many reasons that WW1 kicked off.

>>717675863
The Dragonborn does canonically come from Cyrodiil and was caught crossing the border into Skyrim, Hadvar states as much depending on what race you play as:
>"Not many wood elves would choose to come alone to Skyrim"
>"Another refugee? Gods really have abandoned your people, dark elf"
>"You picked a bad time to come home to Skyrim, kinsman"

>>717675596
Issue being that over half of the people of the country don't consider the Empire to be foreigners, while the Stormcloaks are doing nothing to kick out the actual foreigners, the Thalmor. Because Ulfric is their manchurian agent.

>>717676256
>Over half of the people in the country don't consider the Empire to be foreigners
And? Victory in the rebellion would quickly change this.

>>717675784
I mean sure, if you're confident that you can repel invaders without any outside help, or that you can equally match whatever technological advancements are made by the people you kick out, then by all means go for it. But it just seems like eventually Skyrim would need some help, and the Stormcloak route involves pissing off pretty much anyone who isn't a Nord, meaning those nations are less likely to help without significant cost to Skyrim.

>>717676350
>Eventually you'll need some help from outside forces
>Oh and btw my technology and trade
Skyrim is in the far north and is one of the safest and hardest to invade parts of the entire world if you don't have some big empire right next to them invading them.

>>717676350
>>717676489
And are you really living in the delusion that other parts of the world aren't in the same boat? They wouldn't think that Skyrim is for the nords because... THEY JUST WOULDN'T OKAY? Because pretty much every nation in said setting is almost entirely ethnically homogeneous and independent to a large extent.
You're looking at all of this through 21st-century eyes.

>>717675959
>Dude just let a foreign country impose its laws on you
>You can just break them in secret lmao

Why is literally every empire supporter such a fucking cuck? Tulius even brings the fucking Thalmor with him to the peace conference and people still have play mental gymnastics about "Yeah but he really secretly doesn't like them" just because they don't want to support the heckin racist white people.

>>717676350
That won't happen. And even if it does, that just means the whole nation gets to go to Sovngarde, which is a spiritual win. Independent Skyrim is based, deal with it milk-drinker

>>717676135
Hard to describe canonicity with dialogue that constantly contradicts itself, yeah?
I mean after all, Ralof says you were all caught together trying to cross the border, but they (the Stormcloaks) were caught "outside of Darkwater Crossing" which is nowhere near any border, let alone The Pale Pass, which again, is inaccessible in-lore.
So basically, what the fuck is even going on? Nobody knows. Not even Todd.

Daily reminder that this bitch is a lying whore and Kematu is a bro.

>>717676616
>>Dude just let a foreign country impose its laws on you
What foreign country? You mean the Empire, that Skyrim was a province of for centuries by that point? And no law was imposed or enforced until AFTER Ulfric, Thalmor asset that he is, kickstarted his rebellion. Everything bad that happens to Skyrim and its people is his fault. Literally every single fucking thing.

>>717675472
Is this still the case when the leader of the fantasy Norwegians is not only a fuckup and arguably a coward, but when there's also evidence that he is either directly involved with the fantasy kikes or is a convenient asset for them, and when at least half the fantasy Norwegians don't wish to follow him down a regressive and self destructive path?

Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

>Secede from the empire and kick out the Elves, black people - :O
>Secede from the empire and kick out the Elves, white people - >:(

>>717676609
>Because pretty much every nation in said setting is almost entirely ethnically homogeneous and independent to a large extent.
Well, yes, but there is a difference between "independent but amiable to neighboring countries" and "independent, fuck off we don't like your kind". Stormcloak-lead Skyrim is actively pretty hostile to everyone else, which is fine if you're dealing with the Thalmor or anyone who is actively trying to fuck with them, but I'm struggling to understand what their problem with the Dunmer is other than "they have pointy ears".

>>717676837
>and when at least half the fantasy Norwegians don't wish to follow him down a regressive and self destructive path?
Then they can fucking leave too, traitors and faggots aren't welcome either

>>717676350
To add to this, reminder the Empire had straight up won the civil war by the time the game starts and it took a literal deus ex machina dragon god appearing outta fucking nowhere for Ulfric to not be beheaded right there and then

>>717676724
The Talos ban and their enforcement of it was terms of the White-Gold Concordant. You keep circling back to the cuck behavior of
>Just do it in secret and you'll be okay
>Ummm sweety it's ackshually Ulfric's fault that Elves are allowed and encouraged by the Empire to impose their laws

>>717675423
According to Kirkbride's Altmeri commentary on Talos
>get rid of Talos because his existence affirms creation as it currently is
>get rid of existence of Mankind forever, so they can no longer even appear in any possibility
>with the previous two done, unbind Time so it's no longer linear, returning to Dawn era shenanigans, but without the Convention that came later

>>717677301
Talos protecting his faithful, the Divines want Skyrim to be independent

>>717677401
Talos would wring Ulfric's neck himself for being the lackey of fucking elves of all things.

>>717676712
Her mission was probably the Skyrim equivalent of The Replicated Man and meant to tease TES6 all along

>>717677393
>"in secret"
>statues everywhere, including major cities
>nobody persecuted
>every home had a Talos shrine in it for the whole family to pray at together
>nobody persecuted

>>717673861
Torygg had no faith in the strength of Skyrim and was actively prioritizing keeping the Empire together over addressing the oppression of his people. He respected Ulfric for having a backbone because he lacked one. He was completely out of touch with the people's growing sentiments of unrest and that made him an incompetent High King.

>>717677075
Hammerfell is actually directly addressing the Thalmor though. Their conflict is entirely with the Aldmeri, the empire isn't even trying to poke their head in to Hammerfell
Not only is Ulfric not actually targeting Thalmor controlled areas of Skyrim, he's starting a full on civil conflict with other nords because he can't accept not being the high king.

>>717677770
We know that's what Ulfric thinks to make his blatant murder of his biggest supporter and ally easier on himself, but it's not backed by anything in the game, so...

>>717676712
it's really simple. they were rude, so i slayed them. she was cute, so i layed her

the stormcloack rebellion only makes sense if they have the protagonist on their side, which is effectively a demigod. it's obvious that it was doomed from the start.

>>717677946
>he's starting a full on civil conflict with other nords
I like how Imperial-aligned Nords just want the Stormcloaks to shut the fuck up, but the Stormcloaks actively want the Imperial-aligned Nords to fucking leave or get executed so they can have their stuff.

>>717678195
>that it was doomed from the start.
This is an incredibly beleaguered empire that at this point only controls high rock and Cyrodil
Skyrim was traditionally one of the highest populated and most important provinces in the Septim empire and would remain as such with the Mede empire
A rebellion in skyrim being hard to squash is completely realistic, they don't have the track record of Hammerfell but they are still a formidable province.

>>717678086
>they were rude
Kematu wasn't. He's honorable and doesn't prioritize violence. Saadia pulls a dagger on you for no reason and tries to manipulate you with pity. She's also a Thalwhore, so congratulations, you got sloppy seconds.
Stop thinking with your wiener.

>>717678195
But the fact is they do, and that's enough. If the Dragonborn wants Skyrim to be independent, then it's the will of the gods, and shitty faggot elves need to fucking leave

>>717677949
I would say that the state of the civil war backs up the fact that unrest had long been brewing under the surface. It's literally stated that Torygg does not give a voice to his people's sentiments and actively goes out of his way to prop up the Empire with his position instead. Something that has more weight than the "he might have maybe supported Ulfric" scenarios.

>>717678423
same reason people prefer graymanes over battleborn. the faggot rudely demands that you pick a side, even when you say that you don't give a shit. so people take the other side. that and being a damsel in distress

>>717670863 (OP)
>Let me incite a war with a rival superpower without first having the unified strength of Skyrim and the alliance with Hammerfell to withstand it!
you don't deserve tes6 in your lifetime for your malicious idiocy

>>717677770
>the oppression of his people
See >>717677647

>>717675526
>alinor
>irrelevant
come on buddy

>>717673832
All high ranking politicians in the Empire have visited Elenwen's Island, they're compromised

>>717678460
Shame they won't.

>>717678408
>A rebellion in skyrim being hard to squash
Besides >>717677301, the "Legion" in Skyrim is recruited locally. It's not the actual Legion trapped below Pale Pass, it's a bunch of locally recruited farmers shiped into shape by Tullius in a matter of months. That they're able to go toe to toe with the Stormcloaks and capture their leader says all you need to know about how much trouble Ulfric's cause would have if Cyrodiil actually committed trained numbers up north
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Stormcloak_Missive_(Fort_Neugrad)

>>717678682
>dude just walk up to the high king and murder him
...wait

>>717679108
kek

>>717670863 (OP)
Yes, the Stormcloaks are literally ISIS.

So what I'm gathering from all this is that the only argument for being a Stormcloak is "don't be a faggot, you're not a faggot, are you kinsman?"

>>717679108
Unlike the Thalmor, Skyrim has rules for that

>>717675710

Cool it down with the antisemitism, goy. Dominion has the right to defend itself. In fact, we need to send 6 billion septims to them again this year, because they are our greatest ally. You aren't some kind of a racist, antisemitic Nord supremacist, are you? Never forget how Talos killed 6 gorillion Talmor elves. If you don't send septims to the people of Talmor you are literally Talos.

A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON

>>717679436
>rules
Wasn't using the Thu'um against the rules though? I can't honestly remember, but I thought it was physical combat only, no magic.

>>717679431
I thought Tullius was a cuck so I joined the Stormcloaks.

>>717678685
Just because you're given room to walk doesn't mean you're not a dog on leash. The entire situation happened because Ulfric was there when the Empire was twiddling its thumbs.

>>717677214
A man who would turn his own people against each other in the name of his own cause is the only traitor.

>>717675938
Kek

>>717679583
It was the equivalent of one of those American laws nobody knows about because they haven't been enforced since 1789. Ulfric went "ackchyually" and used a gun in a sword fight.

>>717679560
The Empire died with Martin, anon. There is no rebuilding it. It's time to move on.

>>717679634
Yes, the entire shitshow Skyrim is in happens because Ulfric is there to kickstart the actual oppression and downfall of his """beloved""" home.

>>717679634
There's no "leash" if people can pray out in the open, having shrines built into the major fucking cities a quarter of a century well into the Concordat's lifespan. The elves didn't give a single shit about solitary, cold, muddy Skyrim until Ulfric started jingling keys in his direction and the Thalmor saw a golden opportunity to divide Men.

>>717679583
A Solitude gate guard judged it was a valid win by letting Ulfric walk out instead of keeping the door shut, but he isn't exactly an authority, just someone with a valid opinion. Specifics of the rules aside, the fact that there's literally rules that let you get away with walking up to the High King and killing him makes it a lot better an option than attacking an Embassy of the winners of the last Great War as a small rebel faction.

>>717679431
The argument is 'Fuck knife ears'

>>717679773
Defeatists hang first, alongside traitors.

>>717679560
>The empire is just biding its time!
>Actively losing territory
>Losing face to all of its former allies
>Being sabotaged from within
>Trust the plan. Just two more weeks.
Shit was never gonna fucking happen bro

>>717679876
ah, another spokesperson of the "make love not war" movement

>>717679773
>201 years since Martin's death
>Empire still around
For comparison America is 248 years old. I don't know, I'd say the Empire is well enough
>nooooooooo but Wulf said the Empire is dead 207 years ago!
He can cope

>>717679908
You're gonna invade Hammerfell for that? Or Morrowind? Or Black Marsh? Or Elsweyr?
You're going to run out of rope. The Empire lost all its provinces and influence.

>>717679969
Funny, if their plan to rebuild didn't work, why did the Thalmor bother creating the Stormcloak rebellion to destabilize the Empire?

>>717679852
Do you know why the elves wanted Thalos worship banned? It's quite literally the thing they care about most.

>>717679908
This isn't defeatist, it's realistic. Mede II was the real defeatist here for acting like they lost against the Aldmeri and signed their papers.
Incompetence destroyed what was left of the Empire.

>>717679969
>"""actively losing territory"""
>they let Hammerfell go and even helped them post-Great War and haven't had a "loss of territory" since until Ulfric shat his pants in defiance

>>717679773
I agree the empire was already on its last days and the people running it should definitely be aware of this . Which is why one last genuine cooperation will make an easy and stronger case to gain I independency.
>>717679969
The stormcloaks were getting destroyed by group of last minute made local militia and a very small fragment of imperial force . what chance do you think he has against the thalmors independently if he won this conflict? even ulfric himself was aware of this fact in the game.

>>717680193
And yet everyone in Skyrim actively worshipped Talos out in he open for 25 years

>>717680308
>lost blackmarsh
>lost vvardenfell
>lost all elves provinces
>lost black country
empire of two provinces lmao

>>717679583
Shouts aren't magic, and it's considered a high honor and the mark of a true Nord to be able to use them. The fact that Ulfric could and Torygg couldn't is proof enough that Torygg was never meant to be High King.

>>717675736
>Seems like a pretty short-sighted way to run a nation.
Let me tell you, as someone who has seen the state of his country deteriorate since the 90's, action is better than inaction.

>>717680579
Not if said action leads to your nation dying even faster with no hope of ever recovering.

>>717680086
Same reason they made sure their arms were shoved far enough up their puppet empire's ass to pressure them into stopping a Skyrim united in rebellion. Gridlock helps them. A quick victory of either side was deemed a threat.

>>717675472
Yes, that's why my character supported the empire (because she's an evil vampire witch and wants Skyrim to be as unstable as possible to seize power for herself alone).

>>717680519
Since when was Black Marsh part of the Empire by 4E 175? Likewise Valenwood joined 22 years after the Oblivion Crisis and Elsweyr 80 after Valenwood.

>>717680701
Then she would support the Stormcloaks though.

>>717680679
>their arms shoved so far up the empire's ass that Tullius actively dabs on Elenwen and stops her from disrupting Helgen's execution

>>717680673
I'm not talking in hypotheticals here, I've literally become a minority in my own country, in my lifetime. This is not a joke; fight back always.

>>717680730
huh. i thought the whole continent was united under empire rule. then it's even more retarded to ever call it empire

>>717672018
maybe we need a dragnborn in the real world too, I heart that in the middle east there are dragons to slay bellow Lebanon and above Egypt. Bonus point for using nuke shouts to kill the 6 000 000 dragons faster.

The Stormcloaks have neither a solid foothold in Skyrim (Ulfric barely can muster support from his loyal jarls and only Skald is enthusiastic enough about his claim) nor the means to start a bloodless coup.

>>717676350
>I mean
>imperial
Redditor detected

>>717680894
No, the argument was you stating the Empire has been "actively losing territory" since making the claim that it's biding its time, ie post-Great War

I'll accept the concession, ESL

>>717680437
Obviously not since the one time they did openly worship the Thalmor made sure to whip the empire into shutting that shit down.

>>717677042
>woman soldier
lol
Nords are gay. But Skyrim does belong to the gays.

>>717681052
This. Siding with the Empire is fucking Reddit "I stand with her" behavior

>>717681249
>women like men
>liking men is gay
>50% of skyrim is women
faggot province, if you ask me

>>717680579
Let tell as someone from a former colony of an empire who foolishly gained “independence” by fighting them . Under them we were equal to most pre world war europ in terms of living standard, however now we areworse than we ever under the previous colonial ruler.The first thing our “freedom” fighters did was burn literally everything that had to do with them. hospitals, schools, libraries, roads, railways literally every tool that could be used to advance nation into civilized society. What they did literally set us back to medieval times. And those in power constantly push out people into civil war every election while still blaming it all on a former colonial overlord that stopped being one for more than 3/4 of a century. Meanwhile all the former colonies that fully cooperated with them to the not only got their independence but also live in the 21st century.

>>717681165
>Obviously not
Obviously yes given the game reiterates it time and time again
>since the one time they did openly worship
Every day
Every week
Every year
For 25 years
Shrines in every home
Shrines in the middle of the town square in at least 4 Holds that I can think of
Twenty-five years

>>717680894
It basically was. Then the Aldmeri Dominion took most of it from them and Hammerfell fucked off when the Empire bent the knee. Blackmarsh is the only thing they lost before the Great War. The retard is just lying to you lmao.

Ave

>>717681401
Absolutely, bro. It’s the same crowd that unironically argues Tullius is a “good man doing his duty” while he’s literally propping up Dominion interests with a leash around his neck. The Empire stans are the types who’d get drafted into a foreign war and still cry about how noble it is. Skyrim needs axe-swinging racists more than it needs bootlickers in blue cosplay.

>>717681681
You can shut your ears and say nonsense, but it still isn't true when the game establishes the opposite. Talos worship was banned and had to be done in secret. You were no longer allowed to openly declare the divinity of Talos, those shrines just became "statues of a hero". The single time a city openly declares worship of Talos it kicks off a civil war. Pretend all you like, but that's the truth of it.

>>717682069
>You can shut your ears and say nonsense
Well it's certainly clear you can.

>>717681976
Aura farming fr fr

>>717680541
To use it, yes. To use it to fight is blasphemy. Nords respect users of the Voice, but all of them bow down to the Greybeards' Way of the Voice rather than the how the Tongues used it.

>>717682494
also, challenging somebody to a duel and then striking like a snake is the epitome of no honor

>>717682813
I wonder what would have happened if Torygg won. There's no way he would considering Ulfric was a soldier, but considering how much respect Torygg had for Ulfric I wonder if he beat him he'd let Ulfric live? Admittedly my opinion of Ulfric is so low that I'm pretty sure Ulfric would use that act of mercy to sneak attack Torygg and kill him anyway, but still

>>717673861
Stentor is where the Empire's argument falls apart.
>Erm, actually if Ulfric just told Torygg to declare independence (like he literally did in front of the moot that elected him) Torygg would have agreed
>But instead he challenged Torygg! which if he refused meant Skyrim's Jarls could legally vote for Ulfric to lead them to independence!
>So obviously he had to accept Ulfric's challenge knowing full well he would die so that he could stop that potential from happening and guarantee Skyrim fell into Civil War!

I also find it funny how people just accept everything the literal bloodsucking parasite vampire has to say on this topic at face-value. The vampire who, by her own dialogue, had very obviously been grooming Torygg.

>>717671515
>yeah start open war with the thalmor so they team up with the thing they already control
That's like saying America will come after you if you anger Israel; no shit.

>>717675423
>>717675609
just like gnostics/masons irl, they also hate Talos (Jesus Christ)

>>717681976
>Fighting for a failing empire
>Fighting for an empire that has lost the divine right to rule
>Oppressing the very same people that were pivotal in not becoming a slave state to filthy elves

A shame, Tullius, to be serving the dying man of Tamriel.

>>717675472
real life norwegian here. norway didnt belong to norwegians for the longest time and it was for the better that we were under danish and even the filthy (((swedish))). you are a fat ugly mutt from goymerica and should know your place.

>>717684667
I'm Norwegian, idiot. I'm looking out my window at a fjord right now.

>>717685005
i can see you, too

>>717684467
t. Ulfric St*rmcuck

Always knew the stormcloaks were the main characters of skyrim

>>717684639
The only people oppressing anyone are the Stormcucks though.

>>717685005
>I'm looking out my window at a fjord right now
ok...? fint for deg? jeg kan også gjøre det hvor jeg kan se utover fjorden og fjellene her på vestlandet. hva har det med noe some helst å gjøre?

>>717670863 (OP)
the Thalmor would ally with the Empire then to crush the Stormcloaks before going back to destroy the Empire

the weak corpse of the Empire must be destroyed first

>>717685179
this, stormcloaks fall into the same category as the sa in germany or the boxers in china

>>717676256
>Issue being that over half of the people of the country don't consider the Empire to be foreigners
So youre saying colonialism is justified as long as roughly half the native population supports you against the other half of the native population? Whats the margin where it starts to become unjustified rule, 30-70, or?

>>717685179
Everyone is being oppressed by the shit Empire, even fucking Redguards are trying to get out of that garbage system

Literally only trannies defend the Empire

>>717685531
>So youre saying
No. You are strawmanning.

>>717685620
No im serious here. Is the raj justified if we can find a poll where half the population of india supported it over thugees?

Obviously Stormcloaks are traitors to the empire and should all be killed without hesitation on sight.

>>717685609
The Hammerfell is already independent, did you even play the game

>>717685756
the premise is wrong, skyrim isn't a colony of the empire. it's a founding member

>>717670863 (OP)
Attacking the embassy would paint a giant target on all of skyrim, so its better for Ulfric to first have the strength of the entire region, and only THEN fuck with the Thalmor, rather than a few rebels.
Technically capturing the cities would get their attention too, but at the same time its an attack by proxy, not a direct one like the Embassy, so the other side would have a harder time to justify being declared war upon while also keeping the facade of "The Thalmor are not the shadow government shut up goy".

Of course, nothing in the game indicates that and Emil did not think of it either 100%, but still - thats the most logical way of looking at the situation.

>>717685895
That's what I meant, everyone wants out of the shit system. The Stormcloaks are just wanting an independent Skyrim same as the rest. The Empire can keep the trannies in Cyrodiil.

>>717684667
>Fuck these damn swedes and danes!
>*gets stabbed by a somali*

>>717685961
oh, so like byzantine judea

I always play Imperial and side with the empire. Because if Skyrim falls, the Empire is fucked. And if the Empire falls. Cyrodill (my homeland) is fucked.

>>717686161
did you call me a jew?

>>717686436
The empire is already fucked because it lost the mandate of the heavens. its attempts to maintain control in skyrim mean nothing.

>>717686436
the Empire is already fucked, its losts pretty much all of its territories and the Thalmor are growing stronger and stronger regardless of whether Skyrim is pacified or not.

I'm guessing Bethesda is imitating the actual fall of the Roman Empire here which means yes the Empire is canonically going to fall.

>>717686461
He's calling you the Greek half of the Roman Empire that kept larping as though they hadn't lost total relevancy when they lost Rome.

>>717686837
Literally the sole reason why trade between western europe and the far east was possible at all and the main bulwark against islamic expansion into Europe from the east, but sure, totally not relevant lmao.

>>717686837
i missread the post, time for bed. i read
>oh, so like byzantine, jude

>>717686949
Literally constantly losing territory to the Muslims for so long that the Emperor called on the Eastern Patriarch of the church to talk to the Western Patriarch to appeal for reinforcements. Got them, then proceeded to lose the territory again to Crusaders who set up their own independent kingdoms. Also Italy would end up subverting that sole trade exclusivity and become of the stronger powers in the Mediterranean. Yes, they were redundant and were a shadow of their former power. The fucking Germans started larping as the true heirs to Rome and were no where near as pathetic.

>>717686034
>Fuck these damn swedes and danes!
literally the exact opposite of what i said. we also have a strict immigration policy now and moving towards a direction like denmark has, which i think is good. so whats your problem exactly?

>>717685005
>>717685076
Now kiss

>>717686728
What they are imitating was the revolt of Arminius . a Germanic tribe prince born turned Roman soldier who later led the revolt against Rome. He won at first but got buttfucked in the end because his ego and short sightedness and by his own people who actually loved the life under Roman Empire.

>>717685609
>"In Hammerfell, Lady Arannelya's attempt to join Naarifin's forces had been foiled by General Decianus, who stopped her advance at Skaven. When he was ordered to reinforce the armies in Cyrodiil, he was torn between his obligations to Hammerfell and the Empire. As a compromise he discharged much of his army as "invalids"; these would become the core of the armies that would continue to defend Hammerfell, and thanks to them would lead Arannelya and the Dominion to believe that the Imperial Legions were still pinned down in Hammerfell"
Hammerfell won when a shitload of Imperial soldiers found a technicality to stay behind to keep fighting for them, lorelet

Frankly i don't want to take a side in the war because that's too big a decision for one person to make and the side with the dragonborn on it will just win bar none.

>>717686728
>three games, 245 years and 14 irl years since the last TES
>Empire still standing
Any day now

The Dragonborn is a Grigga

>>717686436
This is actually a pretty good point - what race your character is would factor pretty heavily into the civil war, and really only a Nord Dragonborn would have justifiable reason to side with the Stormcloaks. It doesn't matter if Ulfric gets all wishy-washy about how you're "one of the good ones" (which he only cares about because you're a demigod), a victory for the Stormcloaks means siding against your friends, your family, your homeland.

>>717679579
I'm reloading my autosave

>>717670863 (OP)
but they kick out every thalmor out of the towns they take over
what did the /v/edditor mean by this

>>717675472
Skyrim unironically belongs to the dragons and the nords, imperials, thalmor etc are all invaders. Alduin did nothing wrong and parthunax is a race traitor.

>>717684467
most of /v/ is genuinely too stupid for skyrim on every level
the reason they hate emil isn't because he is bad or incompetent but because he is right and they see themselves in every statement he makes

I'm a spiteful little bitch.
I don't care about politics, morality and reason.
I just want to kill as many Imperials as possible.
They tried to kill me? For no reason at that? Well, they should've done it properly because now I will kill every single fucking Imperial for no reason.

If you side with the empire you are a faggot tranny bootlicker liberal, simple as

>>717689649
Tell me how the Thieves Guild is well written, anon

>>717677647
>He didn't play the game
You can find random encounter thalmor parties with a Talos worshipper prisoner
Way to always out yourselves as no gaems faggots, /v/.

>>717690156
Seems to me like the Empire did well in trying to behead a psycho serial killer

>>717690201
Stormcucks are antifa doe

>>717688516
Correct. As in real life, kin and country are all that matter.

>>717670863 (OP)
The thalmore embassy is in the far frozen north in empire held territory
Nice try though, imperialcuck. Keep sucking that elf dick.

>717690737 (You)
Imagine not being able to fucking read

>>717678653
TES6 will have Body Type faggotry and "preferred pronouns" in its character creator; it doesn't exist to me.

>>717670863 (OP)
The White-Gold Concordant is big golden altmer cocks shooting ropes of thick white cum in Imperial mouths.

>>717691009
>noooooooooooo it's impossible for Stormcloaks to go to the far left of the ma-

>>717690934
What would you do if I kidnapped and tried to kill you just because I felt like it but you successfully escaped?
Mind you that you have no power and can't get help from any authority.
Would you just hide like a coward?

>>717691129
Seems to me like the Empire did well in trying to behead a psycho serial killer

>>717691210
Okay cuck.

>>717691307
I'll accept the concession

>>717691347
>accepting concessions
C. u. c. k.

>heh, those fucking stormCHUDs aren't as anti-thalmor as people say
>so im gonna side with the empire, the people who actively enforce the thalmors will onto skyrim and its citizens
>that'll show em!

The Elder Scrolls is such a shitty world I don't really care about anything.
If the concept of "Soul" is included in the lore and world building, but it isn't eternal or if it is you can fuck around and shit on it disrespectfully, I won't take your world seriously.
Same reason as for why I think World of Warcraft and D&D are trash.

>>717691489
>the people who actively enforce the thalmors will onto skyrim
>>717678685

>>717691783
Didn't ask

>>717690467
its made so even dumb retards like you can finish it without bricking your save file

>>717691837
Don't need anyone asking anything to ramble about whatever the fuck I want on the internet.
I'm free.
I can call you nigger, kike, chink, SEAmonkey etc. unprompted, without any reason, just because I want.
What are you gonna do? Nigger.

>>717691916
...so you cannot argue that Emil's Thieves Guild is well written?

>>717691976
Didn't ask

>>717678423
Not that anon but can someone remind me when exactly does that dude try to negotiate with you? I remember fighting through a horde of enemies and only when I enter the boss fight does he try to de-escalate. But then I recall someone saying that you only fight bandits up to that point and the negro proposes to cease hostility when you engage men under his command, which would suggest he might actually be reasonably and not a coward who tried to dip out when I lit a fire under his arse.

>>717681249
Nords are not like normal humans. Their women are bulky.

>>717681976
I kneel

>>717691489
uhhh... I don't think you understand that allowing Thalmor gestapo crawling over the Empire is a necessary step for victory which will occur in approximately two weeks from now. trust the plan stormchud!

>>717692519
The Alik'r ask you to find the girl they're looking for then meet them in Rorikstead, plain and simple. Saadia tells you she dindu nothing and to help her, sending you to talk with the imprisoned Alik'r up in Dragonsreach. He's the one that tells you that the brunt of the Alik'r are located in a cave west of Whirerun called Swindler's Den, and indeed they're protected by common Skyrim bandits that occupy the first half of the dungeon. When you reach the actual Alik'r, Kematu tells you his side of the story and you gotta choose. At any point in the quest you can just head to Rorikstead and talk with the Alik'r there.

>>717690156
>gets caught while attempting an illegal border crossing
>in the presents of known criminals and high ranking Stormcloak members
>has a dark brotherhood contract

it's a shame they didn't behead you first

>>717691120
>The quest where Stormcloak members and sympathizers raid an abandoned fort used as a Thalmor blacksite to rescue a Stormcloak member who was kidnapped by the Thalmor that the empire knew about and allowed to happen
>This is somehow a gotcha

>>717695597
>>has a dark brotherhood contract
I found it hilarious when 2 minutes after leaving Helgen I stumbled upon a DB assassin who tried to merk me when as far as I was concerned nobody even knew who I am or that I was in fact in Skyrim at that time.

>>717696842
The quest where Stormcloaks manage to make their way as a group to the other side of Skyrim into Imperial territory and attack a place full of fully geared Thalmor because for once they rubbed enough braincells together to realize they might not be recognized if they don't wear their uniform, yes. You mean to tell me the outside of the embassy is more guarded than the outside of that fort? Or perhaps the Stormcloaks are too weak and/or cowardly to attack Elenwen directly?

>>717677647
>Yeah so we made it illegal but haven't been enforcing it really hard
Ah, so it's illegal and you're enforcing the will of elves.
>>717690737
>With a Talos worshipper prisoner
Probably not even a Talos worshiper either, all nords worshiped Talos and this is basically a catch-all way for them to arrest whoever they want, they could realistically just destabilize the reason by arresting completely normal people.

>>717700275
>>717685097

>have to listen to a dumb fucking nord talk about dumb nord shit for 20 minutes
>about to mercifully be killed so i don't have to listen to more of their retardation
>a fucking dragon shows up
So fucking unlucky. I was almost free.

>>717691129
>What would you do if I kidnapped and tried to kill you just because I felt like
You were caught illegally crossing the border to an active war zone with the leader of the rebelling faction.

People who support ulfric are really fucking stupid, jesus christ.

>>717673861
>Torygg's father Istlod had held Skyrim together for nearly 25 years
That's an awfully strange way of saying "held Skyrim subjected to imperial rule" or something.

>>717700549
Here, just for (You)

>>717700981
Said the elf-fucking bootlicking Empire retard. At least Stormcloaks get to go to Sovngarde, unlike faggot Imperials

>>717677568
Goddamn I want a red guard gf to fuck fight and impregnate

>>717671515
>>717678653
>>717685424
>>717685997
>inciting conflict and inviting the Thalmor to invade your land is stupid and bad when it pertains to actually killing elves
>inciting conflict and inviting the Thalmor to invade your land is heckin based and good when it pertains to killing native Reachmen and temporarily worshipping a Breton

And you people wonder why Ulfric is a confirmed asset of the elves

>>717701343
Its so nice of the stormcloaks to send their ownn people to sovngarde. Imperials and thalmor dont gotta do shit!

>>717684467
>But instead he challenged Torygg! which if he refused meant Skyrim's Jarls could legally vote for Ulfric to lead them to independence
It's because Torygg knew the truth: Ulfric was one to be listened to, but not to lead.

Or did you miss that with all the shit regarding him being a failed military leader that got raped by elves, a failed Jarl that couldn't argue for the independence that basically all the Holds would've been fine with, and a shit rebel leader that was about to be executed literally 5 minutes into the game

I don't know, it's like every single Empire supporter is actually still in the 21'st century and is projecting themselves
>Heh, I would make allies
>I would use diplomacy
>I would not challegne the high king to combat you SICK FUCK!
>WTF, he is just rebelling and trying to free Skyrim from the empire's rule? And he didn't wait another 25 years for the Empire to save them?
Completely delusional, like, how many years should they wait? 10 more? 20 more? And how are you just gonna tell a conquered people to continue being ruled like that?

>>717701650
>How many years should they wait
0
The game opens with the Empire about to save Skyrim from Ulfric and the Elves

The Thalmor Offices in Castle Dour is completely empty, and entirely unusued in the game. You never have a reason to go to them in any quest, and most players don't even know they exist. I always thought that was odd, but obviously it's because the game is just incomplete.

>>717701795
>Well uhh you see the Empire was ABOUT to do something, but having a little internal conflict instead of recognizing this and just joining the Stormcloaks against the Elves they decided to fight them in a war
If this were actually true they could have just given Skyrim its independence and actually raised up arms. There was no reason for them to "deplete and weaken themselves" if the plan was actually just to fight the elves.

>>717701968
The Empire Strategem

>>717701650
The problem is ulfric is not the man to save skyrim, he lost against the elves, and spent years in capitivity, then he lost again against the empire, and was about to be executed. Then lets go over his plan, ah yes murder his fellow countrymen.

If anyone genuinely supports ulfric, you are a stupid nigger.

Bethesda writing sure is shit.

>>717702050
They should have put a third route in where the Dragonborn just takes over Skyrim, since as a Dragonborn he has legitimate claim to Emperor anyway.

>>717701968
>Well uhh you see the Empire was ABOUT to do something
No, the Empire was right there and doing it. The game literally opens with it.

They were about to execute Ulfric and stop him destroying Skyrim for the Elves, despite their best efforts to intervene and save him. The Empire were literally saving the day up until the embodiment of armageddon interrupted things.

>>717702136
>oh our leader is dead, guess we should go home
The stormcloaks aren't brainwashed retards, they all have legitimate cause to retake Skyrim. You think Galmar is just going to stop? He's more passionate about the cause than even Ulfric.

>>717702050
>Ulfric is not the man to save skyrim
The empire could have picked literally any guy and given skyrim its independence and fought at any time, instead we hear of their plan to fight the elves and BRO JUST WAIT, but then actually the empire decides that one of their vassal states is rebelling so they need to uhhhh, fight their vassals for some reason instead of granting independence?
Like, they never actually give Skyrim her independence in any of this or back a true king for the throne to rule an independent skyrim or anything - it's always that they've got a plan but they'll surely do something some time but in the meantime just wait a few more years while your country is ruled by us, teehee
>>717702136
>We were doing something until we weren't, for REAL!
What, they were literally just about to invade the elves? Oh no, we're talking about two different things and you're delusional.

>>717701650
>he is just rebelling and trying to free Skyrim from the empire's rule?
Yes, he is. Without a single plan in mind of what he's actually going to do for Skyrim once independence has been achieved, mind you - he just has a little piece of paper with the words "Everyone else is shit (ESPECIALLY ELVES)" that he's using for his political policies.

>>717702306
>Bro where is the plan besides independence?
>You don't have a plan, so just stay subjugated!

>>717702256
>they all have legitimate cause to retake Skyrim
Indeed. Once Ulfric is out of the way, actual proper independence for Skyrim could happen, rather than it being tied to a retard that was incompetent as shit, ruining everything and sucking elf cock on the side.

>>717701650
>it's like every Empire supporter is in the 21st century and projecting
You are the ones that get mad because you're to be executed for crossing the Skyrim border, though? You know, something that makes sense in medieval societies when not seen through a 21st century lens, same with stealing a horse being punishable by death

Where the argonian bitches at?

>>717702383
Are you implying that Elenwen is packing something else in her robes?

>>717701823
Gotta make that 11/11/11 release date

>>717702118
>he thinks we're defeating the Thalmor in TES6
Things are supposedly gonna get much worse for Tamriel

>>717702293
>The empire could have picked literally any guy and given skyrim its independence and fought at any time, instead we hear of their plan to fight the elves and BRO JUST WAIT
Skyrim never wanted independence. This argument doesnt even work.
>fight their vassals for some reason instead of granting independence?
Ah yes the vassal with a lord who is now wandering around skyrim murdering his own people? Yeah hand it over to him that sounds smart. Are you retarded anon?

>>717702416
>I am a medieval man in medieval times and I'm about to be executed for no reason, I am innocent. It is medieval times however, so it's normal and I am okay with this
This is you, this is how dumb you sound.

>>717702416
>Why would you be mad at them executing you?
>Just be an out of body third person floating in the aether, bro!
Not a real opinion and not a real person.

>>717702382
This might surprise you but running an entire country is actually pretty difficult. But hey, I suppose relative civil and economic stability is a small price to pay for racial purity.

>>717702521
>Things are supposedly gonna get much worse for Tamriel
That's pretty cool too, but I have my doubts Bethesda will handle it well, or at all, they might legitmately have changed their minds in the 14 years since the game released.

>>717702535
Thats exactly how it was, people couldn't freely move around. Feudalism meant your lord owned you. And you needed their consent to do so.

>>717702440
Imagine her gifting you a traditional Saxhleel jewelled cockring

>>717702528
>Skyrim never wanted independence!
How did a whole rebellion start then? You can say whatever you want about Ulfric, but how did they get all of those people to join them?
>Yeah anon hand it over to bla bla bla
Once again they're literally all just obsessed with Ulfric and they just make up things and never actually give responses.

>>717702648
And you're saying medieval people aren't allowed to be mad about that.

>>717684467
Well said. Just look at your first reply. People can't even argue properly in favor of the Empire.

>>717702535
>wtf why did I get my hand cut off for stealing, bugged medieval mechanics ack ack ack
Do Empire anons see things from a medieval fantasy or from a 21st century POV, which is it

>>717702706
>but how did they get all of those people to join them?
"You wanna kill a bunch of those faggot elves without some asshole telling you not to?"

>>717676256
The Stormcloaks don't even do anything to kick out anyone else either. Windhelm is full of dunmer, argonians, and other elves. Ulfric just plays into the xenophobia giving empty promises while his own city has an East Empire Company office and half the city is filled with non-nords.

>>717702797
Sounds like they wanted independence, then.

>>717671515
>just continue your own people and their gods because you'll like totally lose bro!
Piss skinned faggot. The true sons of Skyrim need to give those uppity cunts the Ysgramor treatment with a few pits and some stone pillars carved in the Eastmarch style. Total Mer Death.

>>717702706
>How did a whole rebellion start then?
I dont know, ulfric being a lord himself and starting it, Just because he started it doesnt mean all of skyrim was for it, and we see that ingame.
>nce again they're literally all just obsessed with Ulfric and they just make up things and never actually give responses.
Nigger who do you fight in a civil war, its not foreigners you dumb retard. I love your posts because you prove my points that ulfric supporters online are truly the dumbest people.

>>717702715
Sure but they certainly obeyed it.

>>717702806
Basically, only absolute chumps support Ulfric.

>>717702906
>Ulfric ulfric but ulfric ulfric
It's literally all this with every single one of them, they can't post anything else.

>>717697882
For me it's racking up debt or whatever with that guy on the island that sends thugs after me and never settling the quest so he ends up spending more sending thugs to their death than he was supposed to get from me

Stormcloaks be like
>We should kick out foreigners
>We should kill elves
Imperials be like
>I don't like Ulfric he's DUMB and RACIST

>>717702831
They want independence without actually understanding the bigger picture of what that would entail. They just hear "kill elves fuck yeah", but independent Skyrim under Ulfric's rule would go so far beyond that. No more trade with other nations for any business, no more going out to the pub with your Argonian buddy, no more anything.

>>717703057
>shit hes destroying me what do i do!?!? ILL COPE
LOL you cant even defend yourself

>>717703185
>They want independence, but haven't even gotten their college degrees!
Who cares?
>>717703213
ulfric killed my wife and fucked my dog

>>717691976
you're mad

>>717701381
Yea it's clear that the talos stuff is at least in part a psyop to make the empire weaker by making them lose skyrim. There's basically no winning the civil war in a way that doesn't give the thalmor something they want.

>Empire wins
Talos worship doesn't go away but greatly diminishes. This advances the thalmor's god removal thing they have going on.
>Independence wins
Empire has less resources for the second war. This advances their plan to take over nirn.
>Player doesn't intervene because the quest line sucks
See above

>>717703142
>We should kick out foreigners
>We should kill elves
Yet instead they just start killing their own countrymen. Stormcloaks are terminally retarded

>>717703142
Stormcloaks be like
>We should kick out foreigners (except the literal truckloads of foreigners we got running around in our own stronghold)
>We should kill elves (except any of the Thalmor because they are Ulfrics handlers)
Imperials be like
>We would like you to not play right into the hands of people trying to unmake or species and all of reality, thanks.

>>717702779
Most retards can't see the conflict as anything but an allegory to the 2016 US elections, regardless of what side they take and despite the fact that Skyrim predates it. They laser focus on the issue of Skyrim being for the Nords and ignore all the others, they ignore the fact that the Empire sold literally everyone out just to save the capital, they ignore that the Empire's principle GOD has been outlawed, they ignore the fact that the Thalmor have actual, literal deathsquads roaming the countryside killing and torturing with abandon. Christ, they even ignore the blatant elven supremacist who will quite happily tell you what the Thalmor is all about in Markarth. For Ulfric, they ignore that he's quite clearly just trying to become the next Talos by attempt to walk his same path and cares for little else but his own legend, even if he loses, he wants his death worthy of song by dying to the Dragonborn.

Treating it as allegory is dumb, but then going on to say "Well killing innocent people was fine in medieval times, so they shouldn't be upset about it." As if it's perfectly rational that the victim would be okay with it is up there with the most stupid fucking things I've read on this site.

>>717703307
People love talking about how weak the empire is but constantly ignore the fact the thalmor are as well, they don't have the resources to fight another war, Titus mede murdered their best army and general. So the thalmor went all psy ops instead.

>>717670863 (OP)
kill thalmor, behead thalmor, punch thalmor, use the wabbajack on thalmor

Need something?

>>717676712
My chaste wife

>>717703270
>Who cares?
The Nords who do have college degrees, for one. The Nords who have non-Nord friends and lovers, the ones who need the aforementioned trade routes for their businesses to survive, the Nords who worry about Skyrim's future when all their allies have been told to fuck off? What's the Stormcloak response to that, "Deal with it or die, faggot traitor"?

>>717703457
>For Ulfric, they ignore that he's quite clearly just trying to become the next Talos by attempt to walk his same path and cares for little else but his own legend, even if he loses,
Talos didn't repeatedly lose battles like ulfric did, thats the thing. Ulfric is a failure from the start. his biggest claim to fame is he shouted the high king to death, thats it.

>>717701650
>WTF, he is just rebelling and trying to free Skyrim from the empire's rule
For a guy that's so obsessed with Nord history and tradition, the first thing Ulfric should know is that bloody succession is THE ONE THING YOU NEVER DO IN SKYRIM WITHOUT WANTING TO TEAR YOUR PROVINCE APART.

He's just a retard on all levels

>>717702806
>The Stormcloaks don't even do anything to kick out anyone else either.
That might have something to do with them not really being about kicking everyone else out aside from a handful of dogmatics. They just want the Nord country to be ruled by Nords, and not from Cyrodiil that is itself being ruled from Summerset.

>>717703603
Hence why I stipulated that he's attempting to do it. Just because he's not successful doesn't mean he isn't trying.

>>717703629
A Nord did rule Skyrim. He was murdered by Ulfric.

>>717703770
>An Empire puppet did rule Skyrim. He lost a duel to Ulfric
Ftfy

>>717703592
Yeah, get rid of foreigners, deal with it or die. Skyrim is for the Nords.

>>717703770
A Nord ruled Skyrim on behalf of Cyrodiil sending troops and supplies for them to do... Nothing. Don't forget, even Torygg was pro-secession.

>>717703820
Delusional take.

>>717703457
>Most retards can't see the conflict as anything but an allegory to the 2016 US elections, regardless of what side they take and despite the fact that Skyrim predates it
It sure makes you excited for the next game taking place in Redguard Land, huh. I'm sure /v/ is gonna be completely civil about that for the next decade after the game comes out kek

>>717703820
The puppet that supported ulfrics desire for independence? You stormcucks cant even get your shit straight

>>717703925
It's going to be fucking amazing, guaranteed, another 20 years of shitflinging on /v/ about whatever half baked two sided conflict Bethesda throws in.

>>717703486
Thalmor have always had good psyops. They did a fucking moon psyop to get the khajiits on their side.

>>717703851
>get rid of foreigners
>>717675938

>>717703858
So it is as I said. A Nord ruled Skyrim. A Nord who was murdered by a power hungery sociopath.

>>717704039
>murdered
Duel, which Torygg unwisely accepted. Truly, what the fuck was he thinking? Ulfric was well known for being able to use the Thu'um, one of his principle achievements is him using it to retake the Reach.

>>717703851
If Skyrim is for the Nords then why does not a single Stormcloak ever takes issue with my Altmer ass in Thalmor robes joining them?
But seriously, you’d think this would be easy to implement considering they already have race and clothing checks.

You have to be a grade A retard to support the Stormcloaks. Its already been said that this plays into the hands of the Thalmor, but beyond that you need to ask yourself what is Ulfric even fighting for?
The answer is the Imperial Cult. He isn't fighting for a return to the days of Shor worship. He is fighting for a religion that was imposed onto the provinces after the Oblivion Crisis. Ulfric is thoroughly imperialized and throwing a shitfit that he can't worship Talos even though Talos has open shrines all over the province.
I am sympathetic to the idea of Skyrim's independence but Ulfric is a belligerent retard.

>>717704039
>by a power hungery sociopath
Hey now, Ulfric isn't power hungry at all. When the time comes, he won't take the crown; he'll let the Jarlmoot decide for themselves.

Please ignore that Ulfric refuses to hold any form of Jarlmoot or respect the sovereignty of his fellow Jarls until he's deposed all of them and are replaced with his cronies.

>>717675938
>falmer asking when the dwemer are leaving
Uhhh

>>717676712
>Skyrim belongs to the nords

>>717703486
And the Empire fell for it by accepting the Concordant and allowing the Dominion to recoup when it takes them much longer to do it.

>>717703820
Ulfric, leave the computer for a bit lad

>>717704126
>Torygg unwisely accepted
torygg did not have a choice, thats not how it works. He declines and he would immediately be deemed dishonorable by tradition and not fit to lead.

>>717702440
Getting bred by nord BWC

>>717704024
>They did a fucking moon psyop to get the khajiits on their side.
To be entirely fair, it's not hard to convince a Khajiit of anything.

>>717704359
Because the empire was weak too, both sides were, and tulius explains himself that the dominion is the real enemy and that the empire is buildings up to fight them again. Remember now emperor beat their best army the first time around, he could probably do it the second. Although the dragonborn does murder him..

>>717703185
Who the fuck says that. Ulfric and Galmar both explicitly talk about reaching out to the other provinces.

>>717704363
But he'd still be alive and still rule Solitude. Another Moot would have convened and the Jarls would have elected a new High King. Whether that was Ulfric wouldn't have been guaranteed given the more or less even split of the vote.

>>717670863 (OP)
Bruh i literally destroyed everyone in the embassy already

>>717704126
>Truly, what the fuck was he thinking
Two things
1) Nords are honored-bound to accept, and Torygg was a true Nord. He wouldn't be able to be Skyrim's High King if he refused
2) That the duels aren't necessarily to the death. It's only Ulfric that insists you have to kill your opponent. Torygg expected an honorable duel that he could be bested in but both could walk away from, Ulfric wanted to instantly blast him down with his profane use of the Thu'um and kill Torygg ASAP.

>>717704453
Surrendering because the Thalmor took the capital was a mistake, the rest of the Empire was still standing and well prepared for a fight to the death. They might have actually won since we know the Redguards seceded and succeeded in driving the Thalmor out entirely on their own.

>>717704534
>still rule Solitude
he would not, turning down the duel would make him ineligible to rule. The western jarls are elected to their position unlike the eastern where ulfric is from. Ulfric also murdered the man who supported his ideals, he is not fit to lead himself.

>>717704449
Yea but they went the extra mile by psyoping the moon away

>>717704675
>The western jarls are elected to their position unlike the eastern where ulfric is from.
That's not a thing.

>2025
>still making skyrim civil war threads
The only reason i want ES6 to come out is so all you fags can finally shut the fuck up

>>717704534
>but he'd still be alive
A Nord without honor would not be alive. No matter what, Ulfric wanted to kill Torygg that day, all for his own bluster.

>>717704735
QRD? The fuck did they do?

>>717704746
The northern and western Holds -- Winterhold, Eastmarch, the Rift, and the Pale, known collectively as the Old Holds -- remain more isolated, by geography and choice, and the Nords there still hold true to the old ways. Here, too, the people still revere their hereditary leaders, while the other Holds have long been governed (after a fashion) by elected moots.

>>717704663
>Surrendering because the Thalmor took the capital was a mistake, the rest of the Empire was still standing and well prepared for a fight to the death.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the capital have a shitload of arcane secrets and Elder Scrolls and the like? Wouldn't that be a really, really bad thing to just roll over and hand off to a bunch of genocidal elves?

>>717704884
I'm quite sure the elves had a bunch of arcane secrets of their own. As for the scrolls, it takes fucking decades just to prepare to read one. All else fails? Alexandria.

>>717704768
I hope the a plotline of ES6 involves an option to glownigger Hammerfell back into the Empire so we can keep the debate alive for another 15 years

>>717704881
That's obviously no longer true
Shit the entiretu of Skyrim worships the Imperial Pantheon.
Much like the Nibenese/Colovian divide, it's not a thing anymore because Bethesda is lazy

>>717705083
I hope we can flood the ghetto with skooma

>>717705180
Its a thing. Its just not represented very well because Bethesda is lazy.

>>717670863 (OP)
The Empire is quite literally occupied by the Thalmor and following their commands. I will never understand the Imperialcuck cope of
>Umm akshully the stormcloaks are working for the Thalmor and everything they do will just bring them closer to conquering Tamriel!
The Empire is already essentially conquered, it lost and is currently akin to a vassal state of the Thalmor. Hammerfell left already as well. The empire could just let Skyrim secede and not enforce the ban on Talos worship while staying secretly aligned with Ulfric in order to usurp Thalmor power which they already did in Hammerfell but - nope! Instead we're going to act as the occupying policy force of Thalmor policy

Imagine being so fucked

>>717705083
I'm gonna play a Nord in 6 and fuck so many cute ebony goddesses.

>>717705264
It's okay, we just have to wait

>>717701381
I hate that you retards don’t know what asset means, asset doesn’t = working with them or on their side in any way.

>>717704785
About a hundred years before skyrim(but 100 years after oblivion) the moon(s) disappeared for a few years. The khajiit are born with a form based on whatever the moon is shaped like is due to some magic bullshit. There were mostly no successful babies when the moons were gone or they came out super fucked up. The thalmor said the moons would come back and sure enough they did, so the khajit government basically serves the thalmor now.

>>717704663
>entirely on their own
>>717687349

>>717705416
Wow Khajiit are easy

>>717679579
The worst part about this quest is that I always forget it's hard. I'm like lvl 12! Don't throw me at a guy who spams ice storm down a narrow hallway

>>717705264
>The Empire is quite literally occupied by the Thalmor and following their commands
That must be why until Ulfric started his Thalmor backed boogaloo the Talos ban was literally not enforced at all.

>>717705549
Well you can always attack him at range, and stay in stealth for good measure

>>717704561
Not canon

>>717704178
>. Its already been said that this plays into the hands of the Thalmor,
It doesn't , that's what is hilarious. The Empire *lost* the war with the Thalmor and signed a treaty that gimped it's military, killed off the Blades, and banned Talos worship. The empire lost Morrowind and Hammerfell already and as of the time of Elder Scrolls V, is an occupied government enforcing Thalmor policies in Skyrim. The Empire is not fighting that Thalmor, it works for the Thalmor who are slowly bleeding it dry. The Empire is essentially already dead, and Skyrim just like Hammerfell is better off realizing this. If the Empire still had the blades around it would be intelligent enough to do what it did in Hammerfell which was retreat out of Hammerfell while secretly assisting Hammerfell with fighting the Thalmor and maintaining relations.

Instead the Thalmor use the Imperials as an occupying force while pro imperial nord reactionaries just go
>Hurr back in my day loyalty to the empire was everything
Not realizing the bigger picture that the empire is being manipulated by that Thalmor and is for all intents and purposes - dead.

>>717705258
I don't think it is.
Skyrim's Skyrim at least ended up closer to text than Oblivion's Cyrodiil but it's a dull characterization nevertheless.
And you can tell hereditery rules because Idgrod the Younger expects to rule Mortal after her mom croaks, Balgruuf is a descendant of Olaf One Eye, Igmund's dad was Jarl before him...

>>717705590
>Talos ban was literally not enforced at all.
Cope, it literally is.

>Dragonbreaks happened.... again...
>Yeah. The Last Dragonborn helped both the Empire and the Stormcloak, so both sides won the civil war at the same time
>Your choice is definitely canon and happened for real for real, now shut the fuck up about it
Bethesda done it again!

>>717705762
A... stealth archer, you say?

>>717676712
I normally side with Kematu cause his story makes sense.
The one time I sided with her was when I played a total simp knight in it for the ladies, he also sided with the Empire simply cause Elisif is cute single queen.

>>717705996
Learn how to read

>>717681976
>lets look at the recent experience on your war hero cv here
>it says youve spent the last 15 years recruiting nord to kill other nords....is that right?

>>717706025
How do we even reconcile this? It's not like with Mannimarco where he sorta ascended.

>>717706025
The easiest way to do it would've been to have the Dragonborn declare himself emporer. It makes the results irrelevant. If Ulfric wins the Civil War he declares himself High King but stays in an empire with a noncuck leader to fight the Dominion.

>>717705590
The Thalmor didn't back the Stormcloaks, what started off as an internal political debacle over who the High King of Skyrim was was escalated into an imperial one *because* the Thalmor wanted to press the Imperials into actually enforcing the ban. Ulfric thought Torygg was weak and just a puppet of the Empire which at the time was doing nothing about that Thalmor at all and so he challenged him to a duel and won. If the Empire wanted to keep up the act of not supporting the Thalmor they could've thrown their hands up and been like
>Look we're still devastated from the last war, we don't have the resources to keep Ulfric off the throne, we're just going to have to abandon Skyrim (and secretly support him in rooting out the Thalmor from the region)
They could've. But because The empire is objectively falling apart and is already occupied by the Thalmor, they couldn't otherwise their remaining territories would demand something similar and so instead they ramped up their presence and began another war while enforcing the Talos ban when they still could've not done even in the middle of the war. The Empire is dead even if they take Skyrim, at most it can be reborn into something new but you would need a new Tiber Septim figure to come along and not the current Mede dynasty who are retainers at best. The age of the empire is gone already

>>717705791
>gets essential status removed after Dragonslayer
>can sneak back in to the embassy without glitches
>"DRRRRR NOT CANON!!!!"
Deal with it

>>717673861
So why didnt he just refuse and back ulfric at the next moot? Torygg was a weak king who spent all his time sucking his mommy gfs tits. He didnt have what it takes to help skyrim, himself or anyone.

>>717676712
>Daily reminder that this bitch is a lying
source?

>>717706254
I think you responded to the wrong post. That one is Tullius, not Ulfric Turncloak.

>>717706187
>he also sided with the Empire simply cause Elisif is cute single queen
Bvsed

>>717706336
>The Thalmor didn't back the Stormcloaks
They did. Please replay the game and actually read the lore this time.

>>717706329
That might not be possible since there's a high chance the Dragonborn is trapped in Apocrypha after he kills Miraak. And stewing in all the memories and experiences from Miraak's soul.

>>717706392
because that goes against nordic tradition. Its cowardly, and since nords want to go to sovngarde, cowardice isnt a option

Regardless of anything else, we all agree the
>empire is going to strike against the dominion. Trust the plan
retards are the lowest on the totem pole?

Imagine being a nazi in 1975 waiting for germany to strike back against america

>>717706453
>Side with Empire
>Take out Ulfric
>Marry Elisif
>Moot convenes
>High King Dragonborn
>Secede anyway
>No one contests it because if Alduin couldn't take you down, nobody else has a shot.
I am so very disappointed in Bethesda

>>717706683
poor allegory, its more like ww1, where germany is realizing the treaty is fucking stupid and starts up arming up again, which is what the empire is doing

>>717706683
No, the lowest of the low are the
>Ulfric is totally not a Thalmor asset despite doing everything they wanted and then some
tools.

Kinda like Israel huh

>>717676712
Never side with Kematu after Amorous Adventures.
Saadia is my perpetual and willing whore.
Sometimes I bring Nazeems wife to enjoy a chocolate sandwich.

>>717706025
What will happen is Skyrim will have some sort of red-mountain style event immediately after the events of the main story and Skyrim will be such a shithole it wont matter who is in control of it

>>717706025
i dont think bethesda will ever let the empire die, its been a staple since the start. And todd loves to play shit safe.

>>717706776
I think it's more like that time when Germany started arming up again to fight Napoleon

>>717705406
>asset doesn’t = working with them or on their side in any way
Sure, but
A) That doesn't change what that anon said
B) Ulfric is stated to be working with them. He was directly cooperative up until the Markarth Incident filled him with the bravado he desperately wanted when he abandoned the Graybeards and to fight in the war, but even then, this is just him being headstrong and not feeling like he has to listen to the Elves. They still state he can be course corrected directly if he gets far off from their goals.

>TES 6 released
>It's revealed that due to some dragon-time-god-magic deep lore that 90% of playerbase doesn't know about because they are not autistic, The Last Dragonborn claimed the Empire's throne because of the dragonblood and granted Skyrim a devolutional government with Ulfric as high king.
Would this please or annoy majority of people? Especially the retards that care what other people pick in their singleplayer game.

Claim your wife.
She really didn't mean to kill that kid, she deserves a happy ending

>>717706498
They did not. The Dossier you're talking about, if you had any critical thinking and reading comprehension skills, doesn't say anything about the Thalmor backing Ulfric it just says they're trying to capitalize on the rebellion and consider Ulfric an asset in that regard since his rebellion is accelerating the fall of the Empire which at this point is exactly what the Thalmor are already doing to the Empire. They're elves, they are essentially immortal and have policies in pace from the treaty that are designed to slowly kill off the Empire.

That does not mean Ulfric secretly works for the Thalmor you giga retard. The Thalmor are prideful fuckers and just think that the rebellion benefits them when it doesn't, since if it's successful Skyrim will become a fortress they can't conquer internally like they have begun with the rest of the empire.

>>717707073
>The Thalmor are prideful fuckers and just think that the rebellion benefits them when it doesn't,
It does though, they literally state the civil war will weaken the empire, and it gives the dominion time to recover.

>>717685531
>colonialism is bad because it just is ok!
colonialism is good when the west does it as it uplifts savages, and bad when the savages do it.

>>717707065
I add her to my harem of warmaidens, formerly known as the Blades.
In my TES IV, the Dragonmaidens will have faithfully served as the DB's honor guard/wives/daughters for over a century.

>>717706498
>I don't know what uncooperative means and didnt read rest of the dossier that says that Skyrim winning would be bad for the Dominion as well

>>717707065
My drug peddling wife Ysolda.
I plan a playthrough where I mainly use alchemy, become head of Thieves Guild and two of us are gonna be the biggest drug cartel in Tamriel.

Only brown people hate the Thalmor.

>>717707048
>Ulfric is stated to be working with them.
He's stated to be an asset. That doesn't imply he's working with them, only that the Thalmor have a vested interest in him. It's basically espionage-speak for them wanting to keep Ulfric around because he is unknowingly useful to their aims.

>>717707334
she doesn't look like that

>>717707419
kek

>>717707073
>That does not mean Ulfric secretly works for the Thalmor you giga retard
Indeed. The Stormcloak Rebellion receiving constant assistance from the Thalmor behind the scenes, to the point that they actively have to remind themselves to not help him too much since they want to drag them out, doesn't mean that Ulfric secretly works for the Thalmor

No, the part that means Ulfric secretly works for the Thalmor is how he was mindbroken by the elves from torture, and was stated to be cooperative to direct contact and commands up until the Markarth Incident, after which he became bratty but still within their control, and can be talked to if he deviates too far from their plans as a dormant asset.

>>717707468
Nice headcannon

>>717707258
>I don't know what uncooperative means
I do actually, it means he ran away (read: was let go in the belief he escaped of his own strength when in reality they literally just brainwashed him into thinking he made a clean getaway). The whole point of Ulfric is to destabilize Skyrim and tie up Imperial resources, which he does with his little Stormcloak rebellion. They were tools for the Thalmor from the start and remain as such.

>>717707440
>He's stated to be an asset. That doesn't imply he's working with them
True. Just calling him an asset doesn't imply he's working with them. The fact that the dossier states he was cooperative to and following direct commands and contact up until recently, and that such things still remain a possibility, is the part that means Ulfric is in their pocket

>>717707065
Haggard, PTSD riddled muscle mommy can suck my cock all night and I'd be happy, but Jenassa gives me the intense desire to breed.

>>717707520
Literal facts as stated by the game itself.

>>717707520
Or, rather, the Thalmor Dossier that you clearly never read

>>717707604
>recently
The Markarth incident was 25 YEARS AGO

>>717707542
>If I read them the plotline to my mindbroken cuck slashfic and try to pass it off as in-game lore, maybe people will believe me

>>717707674
Jenassa is just low tier Irileth

>>717707683
The only fact is that you are bigoted incel pushing low iq racist lines about the Thalmor.

>>717707206
>they literally state the civil war will weaken the empire, and it gives the dominion time to recover
The Empire is already weak and a vassal of the Thalmor, the Thalmor were already recovering after the crippled the Empire permanently. The only reason the treaty was signed was because the Thalmor didn't want to spend the lives to finish the job and expect the Empire to slowly collapse anyways which it's now been designed to do. The issue with that is the Thalmor just magically assume that because the Empire collapses that they can then take all of Tamriel , which they can't.

>>717707468
Holy mother of headcanon, can you cite anything you're saying at all?

>>717708019
You can't beat the main game without doing that

>>717707909
>e Empire is already weak and a vassal of the Thalmor,
I really wish you guys would be stop posting this stupid bullshit. No they are not. The emperor destroyed the thalmors strongest army and killed their best general and forced them to the negotiation table. Both sides did not get what they wanted out of the white concordant. The thalmor are also not recovered, the letters in the thalmor embassy are saying they want the civil to keeep going on because they NEED TO RECOVER. That isnt an age old letter, its a recent one in the timeline. Meaning the thalmor are not recovered. Tulius himself on the empire side says, that the thalmor are the true enemy, and this civil war is a distraction.

>>717708019
I don't know where this idea that the Last Dragonborn is beholden to Miraak for eternity came from. Tsun himself said that because the Dragonborn fucking wrecked Alduin, they're going to Sovngarde regardless of any deals they made with Daedric Princes. No way is Shor gonna let that slimy tentacle faggot win, not with everything TLDB did.

>>717708170
>The emperor destroyed the thalmors strongest army and killed their best general and forced them to the negotiation table
And then literally accepted all the terms they imposed lmao
Weak AF

>>717707761
*Recent for non-mayfly races

>>717708170
They then should stop appeasing the Dominion

If you side with the Stormcloaks, every merchant in Whiterun tells you how fucking awful Stormcloak troops are, how they stink constantly, molest the citizens, steal shit, and refuse to do business with non-nords despite them living in Skyrim their whole lives.
I'm never siding with the Shartcloaks again.

>>717708271
Dragonborn was never bound to any of the Daedra period, as a mortal with a dragon soul, the Dragonborn is literally a fragment of Akatosh's oversoul, as with every other dragon.

>>717708398
>Akatosh's oversoul
Not a thing.
Stop thinking your fanfics are real

>>717680086
>creating the stormcloak rebellion
I still cant believe people genuinely got that from the dossiers
They actively spell it out for the player: A STORMCLOAK WIN IS BAD FOR THE THALMOR

>>717681047
>maybe we need a dragnborn in the real world too, I heart that in the middle east there are dragons to slay bellow Lebanon and above Egypt. Bonus point for using nuke shouts to kill the 6 000 000 dragons faster.

>>717708313
>And then literally accepted all the terms they imposed lmao
Holy shit lorelet, they wanted hammerfell, which they didnt get, They wanted talos worship banned, meanwhile we see all through out even the most imperial aligned jarls having shrines of talos in their homes. The only thing they really got was the blades, which were worthless at the time.

>>717707737
Okay since you can't read let's do this together shall we?
>He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape.
(the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape.
So he was lied to about crucial information in order to establish some kind of trust that the Thalmor could be dealt with in some manner,
>After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset. The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.
So in essence the Thalmor had contact with Ulfric and somehow influenced his decision in the Markarth incident as the Thalmor wanted internal conflict to weakness the empire and kill it faster than it was already dying. However , the Dossier then says that Ulfric has become uncooperative , therefore he was aware that the Thalmor were trying to trick him but came under the conclusion that the Empire was indeed a failure and that he should take power.
>Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant
Meaning that Ulfric by the time of TES V isn't even in contact with them and is now a rogue , although to begin with he was only ab "asset" not an "agent" of the Thalmor only because the Thalmor lied to him about crucial information he was given under torture, which he then realized was lie after some time and broke contact.

It then says
>A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.
Meaning the stormcloaks would in fact be a massive nuisance to the Thalmor if they won , because the Empire is occupied by the Thalmor and acting out Thalmor policies.

>>717708553
>they wanted hammerfell, which they didnt get,
Because Hammerfell seceded. The Empire was willing to give them up
>They wanted talos worship banned
Which they got. And the authority to enforce it
Holy shit, imagine destroying your own argument like this.
Empirecels truly are theraped

>>717708571
>It then says
>>A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided
Simpire cucks like to ignore that bit, so as far as they're concerned it doesn't exist.

>>717670863 (OP)
is this meme about da juice?

>>717670863 (OP)
Stormcloaks = ISIS. Both are (((ZOG/Thalmor))) creations

>>717708672
Allegory is really gay

>>717707737
Also the "aid" they're talking about is something states do all the time. They provide weapons to two different parties at varying times to keep the region in turmoil like the US did for both Iraq and Iran for decades , with either state either knowing it or not. This did not make either Iraq or Iran purely US assets and ironically, much like the Stormcloak Rebellion, the US backed takeover of the Ayatollah against the Shah of Iran backfired into creating one of the most Anti US countries on Earth.

>>717708662
>Because Hammerfell seceded. The Empire was willing to give them up.
And proceeded to leave "imperial garrisons" with who hammerfell proceeded to stomp out the thalmor out the country.
>Which they got
How did they get it when you find a bunch homes with shrines of talos ingame.

>>717708571
>therefore he was aware that the Thalmor were trying to trick him
This is headcanon
>Meaning that Ulfric by the time of TES V isn't even in contact with them and is now a rogue
This is headcanon. Ulfric is just not in direct contact, and is still considered open to that.
>Meaning the Stormcloaks would in fact be a massive nuisance to the Thalmor
Oh you better BELIEVE this is headcanon

>>717708378
>refuse to do business with non-nords
Yeah like the Kajhiit caravans which actually go inside the Imperial controlled cities...oh wait.

>>717708793
>And proceeded to leave "imperial garrisons" with who hammerfell proceeded to stomp out the thalmor out the country.
So, Hammerfell never needed the Empire then? Lmao.
>>717708793
>How did they get it when you find a bunch homes with shrines of talos ingame.
How come people still commit murder when murder is illegal?

>>717701381
Unwilling asset
You niggers cant read

>>717708819
>Ulfric is just not in direct contact, and is still considered open to that.
Proof.

>>717708867
>So, Hammerfell never needed the Empire then? Lmao.
We going to move goalposts now?
>How come people still commit murder when murder is illegal?
the empire was supposed to be the ones overseeing the ban, looks like the empire isnt doing it.

>>717708170
>The emperor destroyed the thalmors strongest army and killed their best general and forced them to the negotiation table
The Thalmor invaded the Imperial capital, got Hammerfell to leave, took Elsewyr, and abolished the blades but you think the Thalmor and the Empire were on equal grounds at the end of the war because the Empire scored a few pyrrhic victories?

Lmao, it's not the Thalmor who enact Imperial policies in their territory for a reason. Do they need to recover? Yes, but not to crush the empire but to take *all of Tamriel* who they would rather bleed out slowly which they are already doing.

>>717708918
The Dossier

>>717708827
>no city lets Khajiit into the city
>except for the player one, no one questions it
I wish the game had more racism, like playing as an Altmer and travelling through Stormcloak territory should be dangerous.

>>717708960
>pyrrhic victories?
>destroying their best army and general is a pyyhric victory
The thalmor went instantly into diplomancy mode when he got killed, this is a cope.

>>717708887
>Unwilling asset
*Willing and cooperative asset that's considered dormant and can be directly controlled again if needed, as he is stated to have been previously

>>717708936
>We going to move goalposts now?
You need to stop using terms you don't know the meaning of.
>the empire was supposed to be the ones overseeing the ban
They have authority to the Thalmor do do so
>looks like the empire isnt doing it.
Except they are? How is the Talos temple in the Imperial City?

>>717708960
>who they would rather bleed out slowly which they are already doing.
It is explained in game, they are doing that because they can't handle another war. This is the dominion words. Meaning the dominion themselves don't think they could handle a second war with the empire.

Pretty much all the arguments against the Stormcloaks can easily be applied to the Imperials. Even the "muh waycism" one, especially that one, even.

>>717708553
>A few Imperial nobles still secretly worship Talos therefore all the peasants being arrested by the Thalmor and dragged off to torture chambers is fine to happen in Imperial territory
>Also the blades , the main intelligence gathering agency of the empire was worthless at the time
The amount of cope is unreal. The Empire got its shit pushed in by a massive elf cock during the Great war and the empire is currently assisting in the banning of Talos even if you think it's instigated by the Stormcloaks and even if it was, the Imperials could still tell the Thalmor to fuck off since you think the Thalmor are already so weak in TES V

>>717709154
The imperials aren't murdering their own countrymen while claiming to be against the thalmor. Thats on ulfric

>>717708971
>The Dossier
... doesn't say that

>>717709202
>The Empire got its shit pushed in by a massive elf cock during the Great war
Who killed the dominions best general and army which forced the dominion to push for peace.
I'm beginning to think you guys are ESL, you keep bringing up talos yet ignore this very nice important text.
> the most imperial aligned jarls having shrines of talos in their homes.
Something tells me you guys are intentionally dishonest.

>>717709210
>The imperials aren't murdering their own countrymen while claiming to be against the thalmor
That literally what they're doing though

>>717709210
Yeah all their own countrymen like the Imperial general who brought his legion from Cyrodil with him commanded with 10/12 of his legates being non-Nords

>>717709271
Of course it doesn't say that: it doesn't SAY anything. It's a piece of paper, you have to READ it, DUMBASS.

>>717709046
>You need to stop using terms you don't know the meaning of.
No you just randomly brought up hammerfell not needing the empire out of nowhere.
>They have authority to the Thalmor do do so
The thalmors jobs is to make sure its being followed but its on the imperials to ensure in the first place. Which they aren't.
>Except they are? How is the Talos temple in the Imperial City?
>THEY ARE DOING PLS IGNORE THE SHRINES IN THEIR HOUSES
This is a cope

>>717709321
>Who killed the dominions best general and army which forced the dominion to push for peace.
Who was so negligent and got their shit kicked in all through the war before that one victory?

>>717707065
My wife Lydia, Hrongar's daughter

>>717709391
>Of course it doesn't say that
Thanks for admitting you're wrong.

>>717709381
>>717709353

Guys who lives in whiterun, that ulfric sieged? What race was the high king ulfric murdered? And before you go to the imperial puppet cope, remember, torgyyn was pro independance

>>717709398
>out of nowhere.
Are you retarded?
>The thalmors jobs is to make sure its being followed but its on the imperials to ensure in the first place
So the Empire gave a foreign power the power to police its citizens? How cucked.
>This is a cope
Indeed, (You) are coping.

>>717709418
>Who was so negligent and got their shit kicked in all through the war before that one victory?
And despite all that the empire didnt fall meanwhile one army dead on the thalmor side and they folded immediately

The other thing the >THEY WILL NOT DIVIDE US cucks forget is that when the Dominion wages war on men again, Cyrodiil is going to be involved regardless of whether or not Skyrim is still in the empire. It's not like the Dominion will invade Skyrim while Cyrodiil sits happily on the sidelines. Ulfric winning just speeds the timeline up and prevents the Elves from recovering more.

>>717709091
It is explained in game that they think they can't conquer all of Tamriel and take on the Empire at the same time which is why they are reporting to bleeding out the Empire slowly through treachery and subversion. Which the Empire is complicit in because it's objectively a failed empire falling apart. The Stormcloaks would do a better job of protecting Skyrim than the Imperial would, especially if you consider Ulfric's other plan of bringing back that Thu'um into Nord culture outside of the Greybeards because he disagrees with the philosophy of Jurgen Windcaller and sees the Thu'um as what established Skyrim in the first place and which he proved was extremely effective to all of Skyrim during his duel with Torygg.

Ulfric is the better option for Skyrim, hands down. For the Empire itself he's the worst option because the Empire is too retarded to know how to keep allies instead of subjects while in the middle of an existential struggle with elvish Nazis

>>717709494
>Guys who lives in whiterun, that ulfric sieged?
Who lives in Skyrim, that the Empire is attacking?

>>717709619
>attacking
is that your cope your gonna use for ulfric murdering his own people? God forbid the imps come in and stop the retard.

>>717709591
>And despite all that the empire didnt fall
And? What does that have to do with the objective fact that they got their shit kicked in and accepted humiliating terms?

>>717709591
>And despite all that the empire didnt fall
It's capitol was sacked and it lost two major territories , then it had its imperial cult banned and it's intelligence agency mass executed.

We've entered the final days of Rome era of the Empire, clearly. You need to stop LARPing like an Aurelian is gonna come around and save the day

>>717709612
>Ulfric is the better option for Skyrim, hands down.
The guy lost against the thalmor in the great war, and then lost again against tulius. He is repeatedly shown as poor military commander. He is not the best. He will dooms his country as his military record shows.

>>717709494
>What race was the high king ulfric murdered?
Duel to the death, you bootlicking nigger. Torygg agreed to it.

>>717709662
It's okay to admit you were wrong, anon

>>717709494
>'if you have an answer I don't like then its cope!' cope
>yes the guy who lives in a 'nord' city which literally looks straight out of Cyrodiil with a massive Thalmor Embassy at its heart and public executions of Nord rebels is going to be a very true independent ruler of Skyrim!

I swear Empire troons are getting dumber

>>717709674
>And? What does that have to do with the objective fact that they got their shit kicked in and accepted humiliating terms?
i could easily spin this terrible argument on the the thalmor, wow they lost one single army and were forced to give up their ultimatum terms and settle and getting nothing they wanted?

>>717706453
>>717706716
>side with Ulfric
>marry Elisif
>impregnate her
>Son of Elisif is the future High King
>Cuck Torygg out of his wife's womb and Ulfric out of a lineage of kings
The King's Option

>>717709792
>>yes the guy who lives in a 'nord' city which literally looks straight out of Cyrodiil with a massive Thalmor Embassy at its heart and public executions of Nord rebels is going to be a very true independent ruler of Skyrim!
Imagine calling someone dumb when you got the wrong city, the embassy is nowhere near whiterun..

>>717708819
>This is headcanon
No it's not, he broke contact with them for a reason as stated by the Dossier.
>Ulfric is just not in direct contact, and is still considered open to that.
No he's not , the Dossier says he is to be considered dormant. No contact.
>Oh you better BELIEVE this is headcanon
Oh , okay, then tell me why the Dossier says that under no circumstances should that Stormcloaks be allowed victory? Which, btw, implies they are manipulating the Imperials in resources as well again like a state actor irl would like the US keeping Iran and Iraq at war for its own benefit.

>>717709829
>i could easily spin this terrible argument on the the thalmor
You can't because the terms are only humiliating to the Empire.
You can say that the Thalmor losing to an independent Hammerfell is humiliating, but that only reinforces the point that the Empire is useless.

>>717709759
Completely irrelevant. Has nothing to do with the discussion. You cannot claim a man is fighting for his people when he is out their MURDERING THEM.

>>717679579
>mfw this is in one of terraria's most popular remix mods and it's a non-stackable item

>>717709970
>You can say that the Thalmor losing to an independent Hammerfell is humiliating, but that only reinforces the point that the Empire is useless.
Again another stupid post i could spin, in saying the thalmor are useless since they couldn't beat hammerfell. You need to think more before you post.

>>717671856
OY VEY SHUT IT DOWN
jannies need to defend bibi and our greatest ally at all costs

>>717709758
>The guy lost against the thalmor in the great war
As part of the defense of the Imperial City , and Tullius is a genuinely God tier general whose own opinion is so what like Ulfric's in that he thinks the Empire is infiltrated and treacherous as well, but begrudgingly holds on to the Imperial military because he thinks it's still important to fending off the Thalmor, which it is, but is still under pressure by the Empire as he is a general not a ruler. If the Empire itself had any sense they would just repeat what they did with Hammerfell, but since like Tullius himself says they're infiltrated - they won't.

An imperial victory just means a slow death for Skyrim and the Empire, a Stormcloak victory just means a slow death for the Empire. That's the difference.

what do you think of this build /v/
https://youtu.be/uMms2QZRaw0

Have considered being the Dragonborn you were born to be and taking Tamriel for yourself as the rightful ruler instead of playing politics with invaders and degenerates?

>>717710085
>Again another stupid post i could spin, in saying the thalmor are useless since they couldn't beat hammerfell.
Okay, and following that the Empire couldn't beat the Thalmor so they're even more pathetic.
>You need to think more before you post.
Why? Every reply you give just reinforces my point

>>717710376
>you were born to be and taking Tamriel for yourself
Sounds really dull.
I'd rather start a cult of worship where the political leaders pay me tribute
The tribute is women.

I wish I could discuss all of these things with you
How to become a lore expert?

>>717703096
At that point it's a matter of principle for him. I just cast rage on the retard and make him suicide by cop the way his orcish kind is used to.

>>717710473
Just because you are dragonborn doesn't mean you have to act like a literal dragon

>>717710474
Play games
Read in-game books
Read uesp

>>717710376
Yes. You even have Bend Will by the end of it all.

>>717710408
>Empire couldn't beat the Thalmor so they're even more pathetic.
See you have to respond with lies, because thats all you got.

>>717710085
>Empire lost their blades
>Their own God outlawed
>Thalmor spooks infesting their government
It's okay though guys, they didn't take ALL of the Empire, so really the Thalmor were humiliated just as badly.

>>717710594
Yeah, I'm thinking we just need to wait

>>717710305
Tullius wasn't in command during the battle of the Red Ring, that was Emperor Mede. As in, the same man who would sign the same peace treaty that had all the original stipulations the Thalmor demanded at the beginning. Mede is a false emperor and doesn't have the divine right to rule like the Septims before him did, and as such the Empire will be doomed to a slow death regardless.

>>717710684
He's dead for a fact as of Skyrim's events

>>717710652
Two more weeks?

>>717710594
>>Empire lost their blades
blades were fucked the moment uriel died to begin with, they were never getting their glory days back.
>Their own God outlawed
>shrines of talos are everywhere
>outlawed
you sure
>Thalmor spooks infesting their government
They are doing a shitjob

>>717710535
I don't see why not.
Political life is boring.
You're a literal mortal god and you even have a dedicated organization that should be worshipping you, their base is literally cllaed Sky Haven TEMPLE

>>717707065
I always liked Ingun Black-Briar, the girl who’s really into deadly poisons.
Which is weird she isn’t a marriage option, you even do a tedious quest for her like every other marriage option would require.

>>717676712
I killed her when she pulled a blade on me, I legitimately don't know what she was expecting to happen. I am just glad that she was actually killable and not one of those NPC's that never actually die.

>>717710584
It's okay to cope anon

>>717710684
>and as such the Empire will be doomed to a slow death regardless.
bethesda is never going to kill of the empire. Make no mistake the next game will seem them resurgent

>>717710820
>Ingun Black-Briar
Part of my third favorite mother-daughter combo

>>717709882
>Cuck Torygg out of his wife's womb
Pretty sure of all people to impregnate his wife, Torygg would have the least problem with it being the Dragonborn.

>>717707062
I think it would be cool if there was some kotor2 thing where it let you choose who won at the beginning of the game and then the thalmor plans change slightly based on that. Maybe you fight or see ulfric if you chose the stormcloaks winning and if you chose chose tullius there are more imperial troops around.

>>717710809
>blades were fucked the moment uriel died to begin with
They managed to keep their heads in the game for 170 years
>shrines of talos are everywhere
Most in Stormcloak areas. The others are usually not used or surrounded by dead bodies.
>They are doing a shitjob
How so? They even knew about the impromptu Helgen execution.

>>717675984
>Be DB
>Slaughter Thalmor
>Thalmor cry to Imperials
>Slaughter Imperials
>Slaughter Stormcloaks too just because
>all factions want DB dead
>he shouts them to pieces
Nothing personal

>>717678423
>Omg a based bladk guy uwuwuwu

>>717711313
>Most in Stormcloak areas.
and a bunch in imperial
>How so? They even knew about the impromptu Helgen execution.
Well they lost control of ulfric, imperial talos worship still seems to be abundant. Tulius is secretly hostile, and wants a round two. Their control over the imperials is really bad.

Now the sissy Imps vs Cloaks discussion died down, I wanna complain how about how cucked Skyrim is in its own game and how retarded the Dragoncult retcon was.
Nord religion and the barbaric life of Skyrim would've been perfectly for an adventure exploration RPG but Bethesda cucked hard for no adequately explained reason, because there was no LotR film or equivalent for them to ape at the time.

>>717682494
The greybeards are literally controlled opposition lead by a fucking dragon, obviously meant to suppress the thuum proliferation as well as slave morality

>>717711351
Better idea.
>Marry bitch in Solitude
>Become new High King
>Kill Ulfric
>Kick out Tullius+Thalmor
>Unite all of Skyrim as new Gods blessed leader
>Become the next Hjalti-Earlybeard/Tiber Septim/Shor
>March south into Cyrodiil
>Create new Imperial bloodline
>Smash dipshit elves again
>Reality saved, humanity on top again

>>717708019
Simply don't beat the DLC then. That is why I instantly reloaded when doing the thieves guild quest. I am not going to sell my SOUL to anyone just to continue the questline, I am going to reload the save and leave them standing in that crypt for the rest of time.

>>717679431
>t. Faggot

>>717680846
Rip helgen

>>717711930
>Become the next Hjalti-Earlybeard/Tiber Septim/Shor
Except you can ride a literal dragon into battle. No dwemer super mecha needed.

>>717712214
We're mantling Lorkhan here, we just need the big moments to be recreated before reality can't discern the difference.

>>717711905
Paarthurnax didn't create the Way of the Voice though, Jurgen Windcaller.
The Way of the Voice is also supposed to be more complex than just pacifism.
PGE1 describes it that way, but also makes it clear that there exist tongues that aren't followers of it, and also gives the implication that it exists to stop Nords from killing themselves with Shouts.
God, dragon retcon ruins everything

>>717681591
Brownoids returning to their natural state or commie shabbos goys is hardly comparable to narionalism.

>>717681591
What are you South African?
Jealous of Botswana?

>>717712391
Wait the dragon born can fuck Lorkhan? Based

>>717675472
based

why are elder scrolls threads so good? and what the fuck is betheada waiting for? 'fucks sake todd

>>717713346
Nothing good will come out of Bethesda, nothing.

>>717713346
The older games were crazy good and well thought out

>>717713346
It's peak schizophrenia

>>717713386
let a man hope. you never know

>>717705416
So they metaphorically dangled a ball shaped object to coerce the allegiance of cats?

>>717714056
>you never know
Yes we do its the same people doing the same things.

>>717709984
Do you think acting like a histrionic retard is helping your argument? You're infantilizing yourself and toenigger by failing to comprehend simple definitons of words and causality.