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Anonymous No.718022110 >>718024136 >>718024712 >>718025586 >>718025754 >>718029857 >>718030025 >>718030096 >>718031706 >>718031875 >>718032413 >>718032504 >>718033280 >>718034528 >>718035740 >>718035961 >>718037106 >>718039237 >>718039356 >>718039651 >>718039874 >>718043215 >>718043227 >>718046052 >>718046230 >>718046670 >>718046725 >>718047249 >>718052037 >>718055095 >>718055743 >>718057873 >>718059807 >>718060080 >>718064248 >>718072187
Was DF rendered obsolete by it's own successors?
Anonymous No.718022414 >>718070346
Personally all I want from it is an FPS death fix.
Anonymous No.718022910 >>718030302 >>718030950 >>718031052 >>718031408 >>718031975 >>718035307 >>718037106 >>718058439 >>718062168 >>718067841
DF was rendered obsolete by no meaningful content updates in like 15 years
Anonymous No.718023992
I remember the days playing DF in any working capacity was a badge of honor and status.
Anonymous No.718024080
i want tiles for 52 i can't play it like that
Anonymous No.718024136 >>718030025 >>718030404 >>718054353 >>718058624 >>718062124 >>718067081
>>718022110 (OP)
>Was DF rendered obsolete by it's own successors?
DF ran into the same problem GRRM is running into with Game of Thrones where the mass-market version of their game (DF Steam) castrated further interest in the game. People don't want to look up the newest model of Dwarf Fortress on Bay12, they're just going to play Dwarf Fortress on Steam.
Anonymous No.718024353 >>718029769 >>718030104
I think a little bit, I personally don't enjoy mouse support. Even the ASCII version on their website uses the mouse now, so I just play older versions.
DF was 'replaced' by RimWorld in the same way Cataclysm was outdone by Zomboid
Any other questions I can help with?
Anonymous No.718024712
>>718022110 (OP)
DF was rendered obsolete when you play it for longer than 10 hours and realize every fortress goes through the same shit everytime, and adventure mode is an incoherent mess
so basically from the moment it stopped being just a world generator
Anonymous No.718025390
it was rendered obsolete when toady stopped pushing any meaningful updates about 10+ years ago so you knew that it was going to stay an inconsistent pile of half finished mechanics
Anonymous No.718025586
>>718022110 (OP)
I saw an alligatorman climb up a tree, fall, and splatter when he hit the ground. So simple yet none of the DF successors can fo it, so no.
Anonymous No.718025754 >>718052512 >>718062560
>>718022110 (OP)
Dwarf Fortress was rendered obsolete by itself. A non-negligible amount of people play old versions solely to avoid the bloat that makes the game unplayable. No, I'm not talking about the game being "complex". I'm talking about the game somehow running slower and slower despite progressively more powerful hardware releasing. People on mid-tier computers in 2010 were making larger forts with more interesting structures and much larger battles than they do on high-end computers in 2025. People in 2025 are still living in a world riddled with bigs introduced in 2013 that never got fixed because the dev (or devs, now that they rolled in kitfox) add stupid side shit instead of making the core game work. It's been 12 years and dwarves still can't put swords in weapon racks. There are something like 5 fucking furniture options and to have half of them be unimplemented since the 2013 version broke them, for over a decade, is unacceptable.

40d just works. I've never had a fort break down because of dwarves getting caught in an infinite prayer cycle in 40d, nor do I drop under 30fps when I reach 30 dwarves in a 4x4 patch of land. I run 7x7 forts with artificial rivers and canals holding 200 dwarves at 100fps.
Anonymous No.718026524
Nah, its still better than rimworl
Anonymous No.718027767 >>718029904 >>718031009
I tried RimWorld for a few hours. It's great in its own way and much less convoluted than Dwarf Fortress, but it can't quench my building autism like DF can.
Anonymous No.718029769 >>718035586
>>718024353
>DF was 'replaced' by RimWorld in the same way Cataclysm was outdone by Zomboid
Explain
Anonymous No.718029857
>>718022110 (OP)
no i still play it
its a slow burn game

want to make something artistic one day but then get reminded of the wasted effort that could be spent on something else and end up doing neither, every time
Anonymous No.718029904 >>718030317 >>718030715 >>718033280 >>718036995 >>718037235 >>718046642
>>718027767
Why do you retards still play with those graphics when the Steam version exists? Do you just wanna be contrarian?
Anonymous No.718030025 >>718030128 >>718030151 >>718053010
>>718022110 (OP)
>>718024136
why the FUCK did dorf release on steam again?
Anonymous No.718030096 >>718031009
>>718022110 (OP)
No, it's still not a tower defense
Anonymous No.718030104
>>718024353
Cataclysm was replaced by Bright Nights DOEbeit
Anonymous No.718030128
>>718030025
so i could play it
one of like 10 people on this website who still plays it
Anonymous No.718030151 >>718032674 >>718034104 >>718053010 >>718060402
>>718030025
Toady's brother was dying from his country's dysfunctional health care system so he broke the "in case of emergency monetize dwarf fortress" glass.
Anonymous No.718030302 >>718046592
>>718022910
this, in my opinion the steam release was a bad idea. it got many people interested in this game, but it didn't add anything to it. even the graphics were already in the game if you used mods. even the official wiki has a download link to the LazyNewbPack which automatically gives you sprite graphics, better music and nice useful tools. After 3 years, we've yet to see a significant update that adds new content to the game. They've release a new way for people to make complex mods with scripting, but it's still underused by modders.

Sadly for me, there aren't really any games that fill the same space as DF. RimWorld gets quite close, but it's really shallow compared to DF and I don't like it being 2D only.
Anonymous No.718030317
>>718029904
I prefer the ASCII for a few reasons.
Firstly, I rather like the way it looks. ASCII is an artform if you do it right.
Secondly, having to read the alphabet soup doesn't bother me in the least. Though I do need to change my tileset for something square instead of rectangular.
Thirdly, I put fucking hours into being able to read this matrix, I'm not going to re-learn it.
Anonymous No.718030404
>>718024136
Terrible comparison, GoT is an adaptation of the book while the Steam version of DF is the exact same game just a few versions behind.
Anonymous No.718030517 >>718030937 >>718031004 >>718031009 >>718031093 >>718037302 >>718040445
How long does it take to learn this game? Last time I played for like 4h and didn't understand the "fun" behind it, I just built a fortress and the dwarves lived in it, nothing fucking happened, is that how it's supposed to be?
Anonymous No.718030715
>>718029904
I just think the "official tileset" looks really generic and soulless.
Anonymous No.718030937 >>718060891
>>718030517
The bulk of the fun comes from the random challenges it throws at you, and the inevitable ones that arise from an increased population.
If you played 4 hours, you probably got some Migrants, and had to accommodate them. But with more dwarves and more time, that leads to more interactions between them, which weaves a lattice of relationships that can lead to a Tantrum Spiral.
But you probably didn't get any Forgotten Beasts or Hill Titans or Dragons or Sieges.
Anonymous No.718030950 >>718031158 >>718032079 >>718054426
>>718022910
Still waiting for the myth and magic update
Anonymous No.718031004
>>718030517
>nothing fucking happened
no "story teller" sent you a raid? yes, you are on you own in df. Goblins might be a problem if they are especially strong or when you piss elfs off sufficiently enough they will begin sending death squads of giant animals but other than that you do your own thing, ie playing with the systems. Game is piss easy, steam version is catered to the lowest journalistic amoebas possible so you have to up the challenge yourself, for example embark with absolutely nothing other than 2 pickaxes and an axe.
Anonymous No.718031009 >>718031535 >>718037281
>>718027767
>It's great in its own way and much less convoluted than Dwarf Fortress
DF is not convoluted. It is a very simple and basic game once you stop getting confused by the terrible UI.
>>718030096
You can't call Rimworld a tower defense game when with the latest DLC it has more adventure stuff than DF.
>>718030517
>I just built a fortress and the dwarves lived in it, nothing fucking happened, is that how it's supposed to be?
Yes, you have to read randomly generated logs that have no effect on gameplay and pretend that it's fun. DF was definitely a revolutionary concept and game back in the day, but since then it has barely changed while similar games have been created and developed.
Anonymous No.718031052
>>718022910
spbp
Anonymous No.718031093
>>718030517
>I just built a fortress and the dwarves lived in it, nothing fucking happened, is that how it's supposed to be?
yes, that is literally it
game is wide as the ocean but deep as a puddle
Anonymous No.718031123
interest died when people realized DF is more of a "museum art piece" than a game you enjoy
Anonymous No.718031158 >>718031993
>>718030950
they were too busy adding bees that players would ignore due to their low yields and difficulties to set up.
Anonymous No.718031261
>playing adv mode ages ago
>exploring a town
>reading books
>one mentions a zebra demon that impersonated a ruler and took over a town
>look at the ruler of the town casually hanging out
>ask him if, like, that's him
>*poof* he's a zebra demon, and is like "yeah"
>not hostile
>ask him to join me
>"k"
>have adventures killing things with his acid breath
>get between him and an enemy and get melted
Anonymous No.718031408 >>718052556
>>718022910
DF is the original Patreon scam.
I bet Saturday Saga made way more money, though.
Anonymous No.718031409 >>718031564
https://youtu.be/0LdBGkUbf9A?si=ed8M8zC7WNre-Ey3
This is when Dwarf Fortress died
Anonymous No.718031535 >>718031656 >>718031667 >>718031862 >>718032686 >>718037376 >>718037709
>>718031009
Rimworld will never be taken seriously as long as it doesn't have z-levels.
Anonymous No.718031564 >>718046945
>>718031409
For me it's Ultima ratio regum.
Yeah, I like collecting vaporwares.
Anonymous No.718031656 >>718031946
>>718031535
It's already replaced DF though
Anonymous No.718031667 >>718031946 >>718031948 >>718032776
>>718031535
>Rimworld will never be taken seriously
Rimworld is one of the most successful indie and early access games
DF is a relic of the past
Anonymous No.718031706
>>718022110 (OP)
Dunno, I don't play Troon Fortress
Anonymous No.718031862
>>718031535
oh no my beep boop eating without a table simulator won't be "taken seriously"

how the fuck will i ever recover?
Anonymous No.718031875 >>718032204
>>718022110 (OP)
The source code must be the finest linguine on the planet. Built by a mathematician in C++ who had no coding experience

for over 15 years.
Anonymous No.718031946 >>718032024 >>718032071 >>718032090
>>718031656
>>718031667
I guess Avengers Endgame and Avatar must be the greatest movies of all time then? Taylor Swift is the greatest musician? Art can’t be measured by the amount of money or success it made, as far as art is concerned DF far outshines Rimworld.
Anonymous No.718031948
>>718031667
oof
Anonymous No.718031975
>>718022910
this
still waiting for the economy to come back btw
Anonymous No.718031993
>>718031158
https://youtu.be/7HX40DXnst8
Anonymous No.718032024
>>718031946
Well my opinion > Your opinion and I say Rimworld > DF so tough luck pal, try make a real game next time.
Anonymous No.718032071 >>718032115
>>718031946
The biggest trick the industry ever did was convincing people art and entertainment are exactly the same.
Anonymous No.718032079 >>718033302
>>718030950
look chuddy adding trans dwarves and animals was way more important
Anonymous No.718032090 >>718058115
>>718031946
>Good thing bad because popular
Anonymous No.718032115 >>718033358
>>718032071
They are. Only midwits who think with their feelings think otherwise.
Anonymous No.718032204 >>718032614
>>718031875
the devs had a lot of experience, they had been making video games previous to working on dwarf fortress. some of their games still have active community, like liberal crime squad.
but yeah, they hired a programmer from kitfox, who said that the codebase was an absolute mess.
Anonymous No.718032413 >>718032623 >>718053134 >>718079214
>>718022110 (OP)
DF was in depth when it was made 20 years ago, now there are countless games more complex and the only complexity left is in incredibly obtuse UI. The "gameplay" is just an IQ filter and the reward is a mediocre/unfinished colony sim and bragging rights.

The colony sim is mid, and adventure mode is slammed in its own genre by CDDA. Rimworld is a technically superior AND more accessible top-down hardcore colony sim.
Anonymous No.718032504 >>718032723 >>718032776
>>718022110 (OP)
Dwarf Fortress has no successor, Rimworld dodges the world simulation stuff for an AI Director and the colony sims that followed copied Rimworld.
Anonymous No.718032614 >>718032776
>>718032204
>lots of experience
>Single threaded

Didn't learn much it seems...
Anonymous No.718032623
>>718032413
>now there are countless games more complex
Funny how you couldn't mention a single one.
Anonymous No.718032674
>>718030151
He was dying from being a morbidly obese dysgenic specimen.
Since him and his brother created an artwork considered important enough to warrant millions, he was able to buy a survival ticket in spite of his terrible genetics.
Anonymous No.718032686 >>718032728 >>718032786 >>718032886 >>718053092
>>718031535
why do rabid DF fags think z-levels do anything other than make the game piss easy
Anonymous No.718032723
>>718032504
Simulation in DF is very shallow and Rimworld is roughly on the same level sometimes even better.
Anonymous No.718032728 >>718032789
>>718032686
Because it HAS them.
Anonymous No.718032776 >>718032827 >>718033084 >>718033140 >>718052320
>>718031667
i like rimworld, but it doesn't even come close to df in it's story telling capabilities. Prior to the steam release, I had been playing in the same world for over 6 years, with about 50 forts, each of my previous fort would eventually affect my new forts. Some regions became outright cursed as the result of my actions, and every once in a while, I'd boot up adventure mode and meet adventurers and citizens of my older forts to check how they were doing.

>>718032504
this, I would pay $80+ for a good colony sim that has good world simulation. So far I've only seen df do it, not that it does a really great job, but it's functional. Rimworld has good and functional systems, but it's lacking in it's simulation

>>718032614
it's not single threaded anymore, in fact the cross staircase meta is no more since the pathfinding is now much faster.
Anonymous No.718032786
>>718032686
Look man, if i can't build an autism tower to the fucking moon i will shit my pant's okay?
Anonymous No.718032789
>>718032728
rimworld has them too with mods big fuckin whoop
Anonymous No.718032827
>>718032776
>it's not single threaded anymore

huh
Anonymous No.718032886
>>718032686
You've never experienced the thrill of mining for adamantine until you open the circus and accidently let set the clowns free. DF needs the Z-level because you can make massive forts. When you have 300+ dorf, you need to have plenty of space for the farming and resource gathering needed to support them.
Anonymous No.718033084 >>718033209
>>718032776
>i like rimworld, but it doesn't even come close to df in it's story telling capabilities. Prior to the steam release, I had been playing in the same world for over 6 years, with about 50 forts, each of my previous fort would eventually affect my new forts. Some regions became outright cursed as the result of my actions, and every once in a while, I'd boot up adventure mode and meet adventurers and citizens of my older forts to check how they were doing.
holy shit, that sounds amazing, shame it probably takes like 100s of hours to reach that level of play
Anonymous No.718033140 >>718033381
>>718032776
>but it doesn't even come close to df in it's story telling capabilities
Rimworld has way more things you can do and things that can happen to you.
>Some regions became outright cursed as the result of my actions
This is one of the few things you can do that really affects the world and Rimworld added pollution a few years ago.
Anonymous No.718033209
>>718033084
yeah, it takes years, but there are plenty of people on youtube making videos of their own experience, like how they try to become cursed and create a warewolf gang scouring the region.
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=ddiG69hYNb4
Anonymous No.718033280 >>718033582 >>718033618
>>718022110 (OP)
I don't think so. Games like Rimworld are impressive in their own right but don't come close to the level of simulation or scale. Even games that are supposed to be "Civilization simulators" such as Songs of Styx that actually match the scale of DF are still just 2D, and feel much more like successors to older city builder games like the Pharaoh/Caesar series. It really can't be overstated how much Z-levels can add to Dwarf Fort. There's a lot of implications for fortress design but also just for how the world feels. There's just something about approaching a Goblin Fortress and seeing the main tower looming, knowing a Demon is perched at the top. I can only hope the siege update delivers on invaders being able to literally dig into your fort, it's been fun adapting fortress designs to counteract climbing goblins.

>>718029904
NTA but while I love the official sprites I've been playing the game since the 40d era and I'm way too used to keyboard navigation. I'm like one of those old 80s programmers that can use the terminal faster than the GUI.
Anonymous No.718033282
Only retarded contrarian faggots deny that DF releasing on steam was the best event in its history. This was worth it solely because they brought in another programmer who actually attended to optimization. You actually can play the game on CPUs that exist now. Nothing else matters next to this.
t. played since 0.31
Anonymous No.718033302
>>718032079
I guess the next logical step will be the 'fuck a bear' update then ?
Anonymous No.718033358
>>718032115
You sound like someone who only watch Netflix.
Anonymous No.718033381 >>718033705
>>718033140
in df, when you retire your fort, it keeps living. If you continue playing in the same world, then you'll be able to see adventurers from your previous forts, or even choose to raid it to steal artifacts that were produced there. Also, if you negatively affected the surroundings, e.g letting cursed creatures proliferate, or starting a war against a nearby civilization, then your next forts will have to bear consequences.
Anonymous No.718033464
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6FXeupOp04
Anonymous No.718033582 >>718035665 >>718037541
>>718033280
yeah, I have this problem with keybindings too. I eventually got used to keybinds being completely remapped, but the fact that you need the mouse for so many stuff feels wrong.
Try creating placing 100 bedrooms with furniture using the mouse and you'll quickly get tired.
Anonymous No.718033618 >>718035665
>>718033280
Songs of Syx doesn't even has individual houses for the NPCs, you have to put them to sleep all at the same house, that shit turned me off from that game so hard
Anonymous No.718033705
>>718033381
>Game plays itself
Anonymous No.718033789 >>718066918
I need to give this game another chance. Next year I'm gonna go all in on Dwarf Fortress, Noita, Rain World and Factorio.
Anonymous No.718034104
>>718030151
He wasn't dying. He had the most mild and least deadly cancer scare. This made them realize that if it was a real medical problem, rhey would be screwed.
Anonymous No.718034493 >>718035073 >>718035198 >>718036438 >>718060229 >>718060408
can i only build dwarf fortresses in this game? can't i build elf fortresses? can i accept elf refugees into my fortress at least?
Anonymous No.718034528
>>718022110 (OP)
Nothing can render catering to severe autism obsolete.
Other games can be more popular, but that's it.
Anonymous No.718035073
>>718034493
You can build whatever you want but the game is more conducive towards digging out a structure out of the ground. Building above ground structures is complicated and takes a degree of micromanagement to keep your dorfs from getting stuck on scaffolds or walling themselves off.

You can let whatever you want into your fortress, unless they're some kind of spy there isn't all that much difference between intelligent races, especially if they apply for citizenship.
Anonymous No.718035198
>>718034493
You can accept Monster Hunters into your fortress, as sort of lodgers. You can't order them around like your own military, but I guess if they see a monster they'll try to fight. And those can be Dwarf or Human, and I suppose Elf though I've never seen one yet.
Anonymous No.718035307 >>718035441 >>718037164
>>718022910
>WE WANT BETTER UI
>Wait til the game is finished
>WE WANT BETTER UI
>Wait til the game is finished
>WE WANT BETTER UI
>My brother almost died and it made us poor, give me money so it doesn't happen again
>WE WANT BETTER UI
>Fine here is better UI
>WHY ISN'T THE GAME FINISHED
Anonymous No.718035441 >>718035705
>>718035307
The new UI isn't better and only retards that were never going to play the game for longer than an hour ever asked for it in the first place
Anonymous No.718035586 >>718035943
>>718029769
RimWorld is like a less complicated DF, with an easy to use interface and more upfront, intentional mechanics. There's less depth, but it's way more approachable.
CDDA and Zomboid are more different than DF and RimWorld, but IMO Zomboid fills that same niche of making a game just like CDDA but dumbed down and much more approachable. I remember trying CDDA a few years back and not really getting it, then returning to it after playing Zomboid and having a much easier time understanding what the core gameplay is.
Anonymous No.718035665 >>718037541
>>718033582
>Try creating placing 100 bedrooms with furniture using the mouse and you'll quickly get tired
Yup. Placing stuff, especially at scale, basically demands the DF Hack blueprint function for the Steam version. With ASCII it's much more manageable and you can get into the rhythm of menuing.

>>718033618
I think the game does fine for what it's trying to be but like I said, nothing does it quite like Dwarf Fortress. Rimworld has individual colonist rooms/preferences but even a big colony might be 10 colonists. City builders like Pharaoh have overall needs/dieties/city relations but have pretty low resolution simulation for individuals.
Anonymous No.718035705
>>718035441
I played the original for dozens of hours and I still welcomed the UI changes
Only stubborn oldheads think the UI changes are bad
Anonymous No.718035740 >>718035858
>>718022110 (OP)
rendered obsolete by toady one throwing a bitchfit about mods and tools like Dwarf TheRapist, trying to stop them from working while simultaneously implementing their functionality in the core game in the most user-mendacious way possible
Anonymous No.718035858 >>718036005
>>718035740
>Dwarf TheRapist
What’s that about?
Anonymous No.718035943 >>718053243 >>718067006
>>718035586
Is the Steam version of CDDA any good? Is the game woke?
Anonymous No.718035961
>>718022110 (OP)
I dunno, for standard fortress mode, I still think it's better than the alternatives, but some come to a close second, nearly rivaling it. With mods, they can usually be better.
But when it comes to adventure mode, I think that's DF's weakest point, you're better off playing something else, I recommend Soulash 2. In fact, you can even do some psuedo fort mode in Soulash 2 as well, starting your own settlement full of NPCs. It's actually pretty decent, even if it is a bit bare bones so far. There are some mods can can add some polish, but none that really add anything substantial yet. I've been considering trying my hand at a sort of overhaul mod for it, since I really like the framework they've got for the game.

My last playthrough was as an alchemist/artificer sort of character. I went deep into crafting and construction, developed a fairly strong town in the mountains, and had a small army of golems(super OP) to fuck dudes up. My character ended up dying when I took on more than I could chew fighting a swarm of fire elementals though. I really should have prepared some fucking potions.
This time around, I'm playing as a necromancer with the goal of eradicating all life. Necromancy feels really overpowered, I'm absolutely steamrolling everyone.
Anonymous No.718035978 >>718036903
the appeal of the game was its mystique, cryptic text based graphics, and high learning curve.
the steam version eroded that veil away, and players could no longer pretend that the game was any good gameplay-wise, especially compared to a modern example like rimworld.
Anonymous No.718036005 >>718036950
>>718035858
it used to be an almost required tool for assigning dwarfs to an occupation. now, you can do that in the game, but the game's doesn't let you manage things as much as therapist.
Anonymous No.718036438 >>718036652
>>718034493
>can i only build dwarf fortresses in this game?
By default, yes. There are mods that let you start as other races, or even races that aren't native to the base game. How much they're actually different from the base game depends on the mod, obviously.

>can't i build elf fortresses?
See above for a modded solution, but in theory you could build an entirely above ground fortress out of wood. This would be an extremely challenging run, but theoretically possible. Elves call them "Forest Retreats", not fortresses though.

>can i accept elf refugees into my fortress at least?
This is supported by the base game. If you build a temple, library, tavern, or other gathering space and set it to allow visitors from outside of the fort, foreigners will come by and visit. Various factors influence what kind of visitors and in what quantities, but generally a nicer gathering space invites more visitors. Traveling bards, scholars, mercenaries, and even just dignitaries of all races will show up, though I don't remember if fleeing refugees can specifically run to your fortress. I know they can flee from invaders to another site in their racial group, since I've seen that on the Legends screen. But if you're near a lot of Elven settlements, you'll get more elves.
Anonymous No.718036652 >>718037085
>>718036438
Technically, you can make a non dwarf fortress in the base game. After spending some time in your fortress, travelers can ask to become citizens, at which point they'll be working and providing to the fortress just like other dwarves.
Anonymous No.718036867 >>718036961 >>718036979
Imagine a Dwarf Fortress-like game but in a magic school a la Harry Potter, it would be crazy good.
Anonymous No.718036903
>>718035978
I unironically agree with this.
I remember reading some essay about what makes art "compelling" or "stimulating," and the author described this sweet spot between something being too easy to understand and being too obtuse. Like in a horror film, if the twist is too obvious where you can see it coming from a mile away, you get bored while watching. If the twist is too ridiculous and seems to come out of nowhere, you lose interest in a similar way. The art has to have some kind of "challenge" to it, so that you sort of get rewarded for being able to follow along and understand it. I think DF's ASCII art fulfilled this role, there was something compelling about seeing the little abstract icons and letters move around and being able to understand exactly what was happening. The art wasn't too literal like in the Steam version, but it also wasn't so abstract as to be unintelligible.
Seeing a tiny "g" on the map and being able to deduce from context that it was a guineafowl instead of a goblin felt good, somehow.
Anonymous No.718036950
>>718036005
not to mention the interface having 12 different sets of keys to move the cursor and sliders around
can't really expect anything in DF to use mouse controls, but the labor interface was even worse than the military interface, and the military interface was pure cancer
Anonymous No.718036961 >>718037562
>>718036867
What, like, developing your own house in the school? That does sound pretty dope.
Anonymous No.718036979
>>718036867
you can customize creatures and magic in the latest update with lua I think
Anonymous No.718036995 >>718037631
>>718029904
alphabet soup is so much more instantly readable than some shitty babby's first aseprite tiles
have they fixed square tilesets for the steam release yet or is it STILL impossible to get them working right?
Anonymous No.718037085
>>718036652
That's true, and because of civilization hijinks you can even get non-Dwarves as important members of your parent civilization. For instance, I once became capital of the mountainholmes and my king turned out to be a goblin. He showed up wearing nothing but his dinky crown.

That said, I find the "native" way of creating a non-dwarf fort too tedious to seriously recommend. You have to embark, spend years building a nice enough fort to attract permanent residents, then get rid of all your dwarf residents, effectively starting over several years into a playthrough. There's also no guarantee you'll even get a lot of petitions for permanent residents, since the conditions for a visitor to ask for permanent residence are pretty opaque. IMO it's just too time consuming to be practical. Just grab a mod, we just got a brand new modding framework specifically to make changing the game easier, and the game has Steam Workshop support now.
Anonymous No.718037106 >>718037712 >>718052512 >>718052749
>>718022110 (OP)
>Was DF rendered obsolete by it's own successors?
Sort of yeah.
Veteran DFfag here and I used to archive threads from /dfg/ back in the day.

Problem with DF was this >>718022910
Still almost no reason to upgrade past DF2012 except to kill your PC's framerate and remove the fun from the game.

Oxygen Not Included did amazingly cool shit with temperature, liquids, gasses and melting points that we never got in DF
Rimworld got some cool shit and amazing mods that we never got in DF.
DF's modding community was killed off by a germanfag who stole other people's mods for his modpack and charged money for them.
Toady sold out to some canadian tranny indie dev team to put his game on Steam because his brother almost died of cancer and it scared Toady into being too cheap to spend $100/mo on basic health insurance.
Anonymous No.718037164
>>718035307
this except its literally only normalfags who dont play DF who cry about the UI.
DF players never wanted the UI to be changed and hate the Steam version cuz all the hotkeys got changed.
Anonymous No.718037235 >>718039260
>>718029904
The ascii tilesets with the right colour schemes are very soft on the eyes, pretty and very comfy.
Picrel is my favourite, CLA.
Anonymous No.718037281
>>718031009
rimtrannies always pissed they live in the shadow of DF
Anonymous No.718037302 >>718038536
>>718030517
In the modern day? Like an hour or two. Paradox games are literally harder.
The reason DF was so infamously hard back in the day was
>Colony builders didnt exist yet
>there were no guides or youtube videos yet
>there were no 3rd party tools
>old versions of the game (like the 2007 version and others) were extremely buggy, like sponges being invincible to all dmg if they turned into zombies and elephants being able to slaughter entire forts on their own.
Anonymous No.718037376 >>718037520 >>718061858
>>718031535
It already has had a zlvl mod for a long time.
What kills Rimworld a bit is insects spawning in tunnels for no reason which kills any fun from potential "tunnel into the mountain" gameplay.
yes, they're trivial to beat but its needless busywork of setting up areas you can wall off and pump 5000c heat into.
Anonymous No.718037520 >>718057396
>>718037376
having threats like that is way more fun and engaging desu
dorf you dig in and you're basically invincible until you reach cpu death or you deliberately open up hell
Anonymous No.718037541
>>718033582
>>718035665
the keyboard and mouse layout is fucking terrible. It still requires you to use keys all over the keyboard rather than just ones easily reachable by the left hand, completely defeating the point of m+kb
Anonymous No.718037562
>>718036961
No, more like developing and customizing your room.
Anonymous No.718037631 >>718037719
>>718036995
>have they fixed square tilesets for the steam release yet or is it STILL impossible to get them working right?
wdym?
Anonymous No.718037709
>>718031535
How would Z levels improve the game?
Anonymous No.718037712 >>718057440 >>718067053
>>718037106
lol, dorf is much deeper than oxygen or rim
Anonymous No.718037719 >>718037814 >>718052214
>>718037631
they don't scale with the zoomable UI properly so it's always fuzzy and fucked up looking. You can never get it pixel perfect.
Anonymous No.718037814
>>718037719
dude... you're such a fag...
Anonymous No.718037951
steamdftrannies be like
Anonymous No.718038536 >>718038963 >>718039127
>>718037302
Almost none of this is true. There were plenty of beginner guides even in the 40d days, and the game was actually pretty extensively documented even before then. Remember; Boatmurdered came from the first version of Dwarf Fortress, the 2D version. And plenty of people posting in message boards were happy to give newbies advice. I should know, that's how I got into the game in 2008. And while the Dwarf Therapist is nice for optimal play, it was by no means necessary. Finally, the bugs in DF have always benefited and hurt players in equal measure. Sponges being practically immortal was only an issue after DF2012 reworked injuries, and they were a rare creature anyway. More prevalent were carps, who had a nasty habit of being able to drag dwarves into rivers where they would drown. But for every bug like that there were things like Dwarven Atom Smashers, quantum stockpiling, or hyperbolic time chambers.

Dwarf Fortress was never hard, it just had a steep learning curve because of the complexities of the system and the ASCII graphics. Once you got past that, it was actually a fairly easy game. It's trivial to wall yourself off and live in a totally self-sustained ant farm. And plenty of older resources acknowledge this explicitly. "Losing is fun" works as a motto precisely because playing it safe ends up being boring. Dwarf Fortress is fun when you take risks, do crazy shit, and actually put yourself in danger.
Anonymous No.718038963 >>718039075 >>718039127 >>718039494
>>718038536
if df isn't hard then there's nothing hard in this world
Anonymous No.718039035 >>718039634
So what autism projects did you anons mess around with (either DF or Rimworld)? I remember wanting to make a giant chameleon army, a trog pit/zoo that got its population culled by a vampire that fell in and a sort of museum jail for unique looking enemies. At least until I couldn't go outside anymore due to an issue with agitated giant elephants.
Anonymous No.718039075
>>718038963
there's nothing hard about DF apart from the shitty interface, it's a make your own fun game, not a challenge
Anonymous No.718039127
>>718038963
df is pretty easy actually. once you've figured out farming, as >>718038536 said, you can just wall yourself and even grow very large colonies while inside a sealed fort. It took me a while to get farming figured, especially how to make varied drinks, food products and clothes. All the fun in the game comes from taking risks. Like digging for adamantine which might destroy your fort by a single dug up tile.
Anonymous No.718039237
>>718022110 (OP)
I have a vast amount of love and respect for Dwarf Fortress. Does it hold up as a game? Fucking no. But it's the original autism project success story. It's historically significant, and it predates even the modern indie scene. He developed this shit for free for decades, by himself. Yes, it's not as good a game as most of its current competitors, but it's venerable and respectable in a way that almost no other game can really match.
Anonymous No.718039260
>>718037235
Based CLA enjoyer
Anonymous No.718039356
>>718022110 (OP)
It's still the game it was and by far the best fantasy world simulator and autism box out there. It's not for everyone, and even the people that like it generally don't poopsock it at all times. DF's doing better than ever, anon
Anonymous No.718039494
>>718038963
Not gonna lie, you're just a retard.
Dwarf Fortress is quite literally impossible to lose unless you go out of your way to take risks, or you're a trog and you just can't understand how the game functions.
Yeah, it's hard to learn how to play. You need to embark on a trial fort, and be confused as fuck for 4 or 5 hours and reference the wiki, that kind of shit.
Once you understand the game enough to even play it at all, you've already hit a point of mastery where losing is impossible though.
You're unironically just too stupid to play it.
Anonymous No.718039578 >>718039642
Granted development originally worked at a glacial pace to begin with but it has slowed to a crawl despite having an actual programmer involved now. It is good they are fixing some stuff but more should have been done by now to build on the actual game content. Or even just core integration of a lot of the more necessary DFHack stuff for QoL.
Anonymous No.718039634 >>718039746
>>718039035
breeding crundles (for no reason).
any creature that reproduces through eggs is a huge pain in the ass
Anonymous No.718039642 >>718039780 >>718039896
>>718039578
Toady is a horrible programmer and 99% of the work going in to the steam version is untangling his spaghetti code
Anonymous No.718039651 >>718039967
>>718022110 (OP)
I think something that DF is surprisingly lacking in is big engineering projects / automation. It's definitely there, but when you dig into it you'll see how surprisingly limited it is.
Anonymous No.718039746 >>718039887 >>718040104
>>718039634
also arena
Anonymous No.718039780
>>718039642
That's one of the things I'm happiest with on the Steam version. Toady getting fat stacks of cash actually got him to bring in help, and even though we aren't getting major gameplay additions yet we are getting some semi-regular patches. I do hope that eventually that'll move to adding more to the game but even as it stands it feels like shit's being cleaned up at an appreciable rate
Anonymous No.718039874
>>718022110 (OP)
Rimworld made DF obsolete
Anonymous No.718039887
>>718039746
dumping creatures there was a huge pain in the ass on the account of them attempting to escape in 60% of cases, before somebody told me to add a lever to the hatch cover
Anonymous No.718039896
>>718039642
I mean it is horribly dated when it comes to data structure and setup, but even then it shouldn't be as slow as it is. Especially given how long he has been doing this. Just thank fuck that LUA is now integrated with the game so actual competent people can make stuff without having to solely rely on core functionality or DFHack work arounds.
Anonymous No.718039967 >>718040337
>>718039651
yes, I've run into issues due to this in the past. You can automate basic stuff, like 'brew drink IF drink <= 100 AND fermentable food >= 10'
But you can't for instance ask it to manage multiple kinds of drinks. There are workaround, like dedicated workshop, but it quickly becomes a clusterfuck. I use dfhack to import my automatic work orders, and every time I need to modify something, I have to scroll through 100+ orders.
Anonymous No.718040104 >>718040803
>>718039746
I really need to do a fort with an arena. They're always cool as shit and then I never build a fort where one would feel appropriate. I need to make some asshole slaver dorfs. Shame there isn't really a built in system for player run slavery in forts so no going full duergar but I could focus on capturing people for arena fights. Maybe only allow traders from other dorfs and everyone else is fair game. Maybe gen a new world for it and jack up the evil and aggression and shit. GOD DAMN IT ANON NOW I'M THIS FUCKING CLOSE TO STARTING UP DF

THOSE
FUCKIN
DORFS
MAN
Anonymous No.718040130 >>718040286
I'm playing it right now. Not the steam version tho. I like my tileset.

Do you guys recommend a population cap? I kept LNP default of 100 but its still chugging at under 30fps now that I'm close to that.
Anonymous No.718040286
>>718040130
steam version would allow you to have higher pop cup, multithreading plus i think dfhack has some automatic systems for performance

after playing for a while i think less dwarfs is more, otherwise they dont mean anything, this is why you should also name them.
Anonymous No.718040337
>>718039967
The problem is how poorly the Reactions data is setup. It lacks granularity since each Reaction needs to be defined, along with each race listing the Reactions it can use. The only work around that DFHack or a LUA script might be able to manage for using specific items in the reaction would be for it to check the reaction is about to happen, forbid everything of the relevant item type except the specific ones you want, allow the reaction to proceed so it tags that item for pickup/use, then unforbids all the other items again. It really needs some granularity built in.
Anonymous No.718040445 >>718040756
>>718030517
A few 3Γ—3 plots manned by two guys can feed an entire fortress of hundreds. One elite warrior with steel gear can kill half the planet. Merchant caravans can be bought out with mass-produced meals. You don't even need to build houses because you can keep fort happiness maxed with a temple and some sculptures.
Dwarf fortress isn't a game, it's a box of shitty toys. Build pretty houses megastructures that serve no practical purpose. Figure out how pumps work for bragging rights. Kill half the world because why not. Pretend your dwarves have actual personalities and play dolls with them. All your fun is self-made and self-motivated.
Anonymous No.718040756 >>718041126
>>718040445
YOUR dorfs may be soulless automatons but I bestow MY dorfs with divine light and each and every one pleases me with their unique charms
Anonymous No.718040803 >>718041202 >>718052976
>>718040104
two problems
the game is not designed for an arena, dwarfs get spooked when they see the enemies so no viewers.
second is: capturing enemies for it (cage traps) feels like cheating but there are no other way. Personally i would have preferred having the option of imprisoning downed enemies after you already defeated them (like in rim).

You can still have fun however, either by making a huge mess and dropping enemies to fight against themselves, or a better pragmatic option is using arena as practical training for your army.
i always overcompensated and sent much more dwarfs than needed to defeat something but you could make it more personal and send one or two per round. Maybe if you feeling really adventurous send them against themselves.
on that topic I've once had a dwarf who fought all the time and ended up killing >15 dwarfs before i retired the fort. When you have enough of them its not a real issue.
Anonymous No.718040907 >>718041085 >>718041603
The problem with DF is it's fun to learn but not fun to play. That's fine, a lot of games are like this, but it prevents longevity from anyone outside of the same autists who spend 1000 hours making sculptures in Minecraft.
Anonymous No.718041085 >>718042434
>>718040907
You can make sculptures in DF too?
Anonymous No.718041126 >>718041223
>>718040756
>urist likes shiny rocks
Anonymous No.718041202 >>718041473
>>718040803
his final stats
and i didnt push him in to it, he just did, he wasnt even initially trained or a part of military
Anonymous No.718041223
>>718041126
This is why Urist digs a little deeper and a little greedier than the other dorfs. Digging was an innate instinct to the dorfs but Urist also found it emotionally satisfying. And this is why Urist has the mandate of heaven to dig straight down, deeper than any dorf has ever dig duggen before
Anonymous No.718041473
>>718041202
>Digits on his limbs and head are all fucked up and missing his front teeth
>Gigantic kill list
ABSOLUTE DORFCINEMA
Anonymous No.718041603 >>718041682
>>718040907
Yeah. Making a rock solid base is pretty straightforward once you learn it. It reaches a point where to have "fun" you need to explicitly make mistakes and let some horror "accidentally" rip through base after you "accidentally" dig too deep a few years in.
Anonymous No.718041682
>>718041603
I like trapping clowns in my fortress to release them in a killing chambers against intruders.
However, when a spillage happens, you whole fortress becomes their circus
Anonymous No.718042434
>>718041085
yeah, kind of
Anonymous No.718042528 >>718042721 >>718042901
It has been a while since I properly looked into this, but does getting Legendary in skills buff your physical attributes still? I.e. should I still be training my dedicated haulers and military dorfs up a Legendary Pump Operators first?
Anonymous No.718042721 >>718042813
>>718042528
i never minmaxed like this but their military training does change their physic in the steam version, i did notice that.
Anonymous No.718042813 >>718043141
>>718042721
It was worth the relatively small time investment in doing this for the stat boost. Especially when it came to dedicated haulers. Never hurts for them to just be tougher in general too.
Anonymous No.718042901 >>718043170
>>718042528
It is not the skill that buffs your dorfs attribute but doing the things that raise skill that will also raise their attributes slowly. But yeah, operating a pump is still DF equivalent of a gym for your dorfs.
Anonymous No.718043141 >>718043226
>>718042813
unless they go rampage in the tavern i guess
i thought about having dedicated haulers but not for efficiency, instead i would like to have a few absolute fat asses in my fort just because i never saw any.
Anonymous No.718043170
>>718042901
I thought that hitting first Legendary in any skill gave a one time physical stat buff to their profile for random stats. Then again I am remembering this from back in like 40d or whatever so no idea if that was still the case.
Anonymous No.718043215
>>718022110 (OP)
Its cultural relevancy was taken by its successors.
Anonymous No.718043226
>>718043141
i.e usually what prevents this is hauling heavy weights, from what i've read
Anonymous No.718043227 >>718044008
>>718022110 (OP)
i don't think so
Anonymous No.718043520 >>718044285 >>718049919 >>718059136
Could you enter the Kitfox discord?
Anonymous No.718044008
>>718043227
Soul. The last vestiges of it until he got married and then it was the end
Anonymous No.718044285
>>718043520
toady has always been like this btw
Anonymous No.718046052 >>718046298 >>718054497
>>718022110 (OP)
Dwarf Fortress documentary?
Anonymous No.718046230
>>718022110 (OP)
No because none of them will add Z levels
Anonymous No.718046298 >>718053615
>>718046052
I'm happy for her and their family since everyone's wealthy enough to not immediately have issues, I'm much more skeptical about Toady magically getting a wife after he becomes a millionaire
Anonymous No.718046592
>>718030302
>and I don't like it being 2D only.
There are a few z level mods around
Anonymous No.718046642
>>718029904
The old graphics require you to use your imagination, zoomzoom
Anonymous No.718046670
>>718022110 (OP)
In terms of accessibility, yeah. DF is a lot more detailed to the point other games don't even come close to. Unfortunately, this strength is also a weakness because that's a hell of a learning curve to deal with.
Anonymous No.718046725 >>718047071
>>718022110 (OP)
The UI has been horrible ever since the steam release and I hate using the mouse
Anonymous No.718046945
>>718031564
Wasn't that originally posted on bay12? How's the game compare?
Anonymous No.718047071
>>718046725
To play doubles advocate certain aspects of the Steam UI update have been good. Or at least as good as one could reasonably expect from having to try and cobble together a semblance of what non-autists would consider a real UI. The problem is that it is stuck between the old esoteric but super functional UI and proper normalised GUI, and will never really get fully realised because of how slow actual development is. I could almost expect someone else to create a full UI replacement/overlay that fixes everything before Toady/Kitfox ever actually get around to properly fixing it themselves.
Anonymous No.718047249 >>718048106 >>718057551 >>718060615
>>718022110 (OP)
Why is the modding community so dead?
Anonymous No.718048106
>>718047249
Combination of version split, Steam needing DFHack to make interesting things viable, LUA integration being a recent thing, etc. But most importantly when was the last time there was a major mechanic/functionality update that would actually bring people's attention/interest back to the game? If they can actually roll out some of the talked about additions to the game then people and modders will probably flock back to it.
Anonymous No.718049919
>>718043520
i've gotten questions to my technical questions answered and that is all i want from that place. There are also a few chuds i know from different servers sitting there undisguised
Anonymous No.718052037
>>718022110 (OP)
Notice how there were Rimworld threads due to the DLC recently but Dwarf Fortressfags are fucking dead. Nobody gives a shit about "muh Z-levels" if nobody wants to play your game.
>b-but the casuals
record profits
Anonymous No.718052214
>>718037719
>You can never get it pixel perfect.
You can every 4th level of zoom. But yes, it's annoying.
Anonymous No.718052320 >>718052617
>>718032776
>i like rimworld, but it doesn't even come close to df in it's story telling capabilities.
I find this very ironic. Rimworld advertises itself as a story generator, yet it's a much better game than Dwarf Fortress. And meanwhile, Dwarf Fortress is a much better story generator than Rimworld.
Anonymous No.718052512 >>718057281
>>718025754
>>718037106

since you guys are here, can you list some of these turnoffs of post 2012 DF besides the slow downs?
Anonymous No.718052556 >>718052795
>>718031408
>DF is the original Patreon scam.
I never paid for it when it was free on his site.
After they got cancer and decided to put it on Steam, I said to myself:
>Yeah, I can spare 30 bucks after all those hours I spent on it.
But yes, I'm also still waiting about the end of the Villain update, the Army update, Myth and Magic update, and all the promised stuff from YEARS ago that never got delivered.
Anonymous No.718052617 >>718053242
>>718052320
I'd argue that just comes down to depth of interaction and increased number of opportunities for interaction. As well as the level of control over pawns vs the more hands off nature of managing a fort. Rimworld's colonies and population are small enough that it is difficult for things to properly happen outside of your notice, and there are only so many triggers for map events etc. The result being that things don't feel like they happen organically. Whereas despite a lower number of the kinds of map triggers in DF there is usually so much going on in enough areas that you can't feasibly keep an eye on all at once that more things are able to happen outside of your notice/control. All this being said they arguably both handle the scope of their gameplay well enough but it is the difference between a small colony simulator made of sims vs overseeing an ant colony with delicious magma available to its inhabitants.
Anonymous No.718052749 >>718057782 >>718060327
>>718037106
you cannot get basic health insurance for 100 a month.
Anonymous No.718052795
>>718052556
I meant the donation page, even though the game was free.
There won't be full updates ever again. Tarn got too autistic to live up to his own promises and now everyone knows his game is barely a game.
Anonymous No.718052847 >>718057708 >>718057774 >>718059418
Rimworld
>Has goals
Dwarf Fortress
>No goals so you just wait until something happens

It's that easy
Anonymous No.718052976 >>718053491
>>718040803
>dwarfs get spooked when they see the enemies so no viewers.
i learned this shit the hard way and was so fucking mad when i found out
>build giant arena with spectator seats, beer, food, the whole 9 yards
>ample viewing platforms and even a slightly modular layout by using levers to raise/lower bridges and form walls
>floors are made of the finest wood tiles, walls are all engraved brass, statues showing our greatest triumphs all over the place and masterwork food and drink available in plenty to eat on masterwork tables and chairs
>lead my gladiators in and release a horde of captured goblins for opening night
>entire fortress throws a hissy fit and panics, causing a mild spiral
>retire fort immediately
Anonymous No.718053010
>>718030025
Toady met a 'pretty' girl at a convention and she convinced him to market the game. Anyone who says otherwise like this >>718030151 is wrong.
Toady never cared about his useless brother dying, he just wanted pussy. Now he is rich and married to a single mom.
Anonymous No.718053092
>>718032686
Then balance the game around them. But first and foremost, it's not about difficulty, it's about fun. It's fun to build in Z-level. This is pretty much the only reason I'm interested in Outpostia, it's promising to be Rimworld, but with Z-level and DF Adventure mode style free roam.
Anonymous No.718053134
>>718032413
>Rimworld is a technically superior AND more accessible top-down hardcore colony sim
Bro it doesn't even have a z-axis lmao
Anonymous No.718053147
The fact that it is still worked on, gets updates, and is about to be rebuilt for LUA modding means most of this threads talks shit
Anonymous No.718053242 >>718053345
>>718052617
>magma available to its inhabitants
They added magma and changing terrain with Odyssey
Anonymous No.718053243
>>718035943
Just download the game for free you dumb nigger.
And yes the game is very woke, please don't play it.
Anonymous No.718053282 >>718053415
Buy his book
Anonymous No.718053345 >>718079892
>>718053242
Yeah, but that magma, doesn't pour and flood rooms. It's faux magma.
Anonymous No.718053415 >>718053569
>>718053282
The book just says to steal ideas from popular mods and then intentionally break said mods whilst making people pay 2/3rds of the base game price per DLC.
Anonymous No.718053463 >>718054116
I kinda hate how Adventure Mode is forgotten now. The dialog update killed it.

before the update
>spawn in hamlet
>ask if there's any trouble around
>be given 1-3 targets of bandits or night creatures that you can see on the map
>go there and kill them, return and gain renown
>renown earns you more followers and access to quet from nobles with more difficult targets

after the update
>spawn in hamlet
>ask if there's trouble around
>I don't know, maybe ask this guy
>have to navigate the dialog menu to ask for whereabouts -> ask about person -> remember the exact name and then ask
>I don't know, but that other guy might know
>have to navigate the same menu from before to now ask the whereabouts of that other guy
>he tells you the location
>go there
>ask if he knows where the guy is who knows if there's any trouble around
>no sorry xD

WTF?
Anonymous No.718053491
>>718052976
could have reloaded
this game saves like once per real life day
Anonymous No.718053567
game needs more content
if you are not filtered by the UI then the game is very easy and amost plays itself
steel clad dwarves kill anything
even iron is enough to deal with most problems
there is no real threat ever unless you picked a civ with no pop since you can replnish all losses and train them to have whatever skills you need
you just do the same thing over and over in any fort

its just boring really
Anonymous No.718053569 >>718053606 >>718054801
>>718053415
>steal ideas
Mod authors were either hired by Tynan or volunteered to have their mods added to the game.
Anonymous No.718053606 >>718053629
>>718053569
I'm not buying your book Tynan
Anonymous No.718053615
>>718046298
She and her problems had nothing to do with Dwarf Fortress.
Anonymous No.718053629
>>718053606
Buy it
Anonymous No.718054116
>>718053463
I played it after it was released on Steam. Sunk good 20 hours into it. Had fun, but then ran out of thing to do. It also made me aware that Dwarf Fortress doesn't have a proper item stacking system. You can split stacks, but you can't merge them, which creates inventory clutter.
Anonymous No.718054338
Steam graphics are objectively superior and will only get better over time.
Anonymous No.718054353
>>718024136
>People don't want to look up the newest model of Dwarf Fortress on Bay12, they're just going to play Dwarf Fortress on Steam.
Why would you? The bay12 version is the steam version, stripped of its outsourced graphics assets and music. The steam version isn't behind on updates.
Anonymous No.718054426
>>718030950
I'm still waiting for sprite movement to be lerped.
Anonymous No.718054497
>>718046052
That's a native American in the USA
Anonymous No.718054801
>>718053569
that is simply not true
save our ship 2 mod
Anonymous No.718055095 >>718055319
>>718022110 (OP)
There still isn't a single game that actually plays like dwarf fortress.
Anonymous No.718055319 >>718057380
>>718055095
That's because other games have functioning UIs.
Anonymous No.718055743
>>718022110 (OP)
It just occurred to me that the Steam has a UI, I might put this on my backlog
Anonymous No.718057281 >>718057545 >>718057725 >>718057918 >>718058331
>>718052512
world was activated which drops framerate by 60%-ish from the get-go.

world activation broke annual sieges, meaning unless you embark directly next to a Goblin Fortress you'll probably never get attacked.
In DF2012 and older, the game gradually brought in threats based on your wealth. Now you'll get like 3 goblins after 10 years one time cuz they got lost trying to go somewhere else (their army got hypnotised by ocean waves for 3 years again)

Temples and Guilds added needless busywork that was only fun the first time.

Visitors to the fort suck ass and are a security risk.

Lots of infamously strong monster combinations got nerfed, shit like Undead Giant Sponges being practically invincible for example.

DF2014 added another 300 varieties of fruit to the game which did not much of anything except make it lag more.

DF2014 also added "3D" trees. ppl are 50/50 on this.

Dwarven psychology was messed with when "memories" got added in newer versions, which basically neutered them all to being mindless samey do-nothings.
Think the difference in the personalities of characters in the Sims 2/3 versus the Sims 4.

Later updates let you send raids to other sites. In theory this is cool, like you can pillage other settlements, steal shit and start wars.
Ultimately you play with those features once or twice and never use them again, unless you're doing Necro Fort memes or something.

Basic features like the Economy from really old versions are still missing.

Steam version changed most of the hotkeys, so DF oldfags literally couldnt play because they already have that shit committed to muscle memory.

Steam features like mouse support was shit we already had 10 years ago with 3rd party tools.

Steam version also delayed any work on the Myth and Magic update by like 8 years now.
Anonymous No.718057380
>>718055319
They should stop doing that then.
Anonymous No.718057396
>>718037520
>dorf you dig in and you're basically invincible until you reach cpu death or you deliberately open up hell
modern dorf yeah.
old dorf? nah eventually Urist McFuckface will get a bit too drunk and rip the throat out of another dorf's cat, starting a 100 man brawl that destroys the whole fort except for your vampire you locked in the closet 8 years ago.
Anonymous No.718057440
>>718037712
Deeper? Sure
But it doesnt have as fun physics.
Anonymous No.718057545
>>718057281
>Basic features like the Economy from really old versions are still missing
I miss shops so much it is crazy
Anonymous No.718057551 >>718058385 >>718058705 >>718062293 >>718062553 >>718064641 >>718069603
>>718047249
A german kid killed it by stealing people's mods and putting them in a modpack he had on a Patreon.
He was making twice the DF dev's monthly income at one point.
People stopped making/posting their mods once the damage was done.

The kid disappeared when he got mugged on a cycling trip through Syria.
I wish I was making this up.
Anonymous No.718057708
>>718052847
>game literally opens with "Become your civilisation's Mountain Home"
>achieving that has a large list of objectives
Where did this "DF has no end goal" meme come from. Do people need mountain home status to triggerr a credits roll to understand?
Anonymous No.718057725
>>718057281
>Cant wait 'til 2020!
>He actually said the release might come as early as 2017
>Post dated for 2016
Anonymous No.718057774
>>718052847
>Rimworld
>Has goals
>mfw I have 700h in it and have never built the spaceship
Its a good idle game though
Anonymous No.718057782
>>718052749
In Washington State?
Im sure you can get free health insurance there, its a pretty libby state
Anonymous No.718057873 >>718057983
>>718022110 (OP)
dunno for whatever reason I could never get into DF or similar games like RimjobWorld, Amazing Cultivation Simulator, Kenshi, etc
but Songs of Syx did it for me, it just clicked and i got hyperfixated in it and its one of the less popular ones
Anonymous No.718057918
>>718057281
>Steam version also delayed any work on the Myth and Magic update by like 8 years now.
You know that shit wasnt going to be made any faster, Steam excuse or not
Anonymous No.718057983 >>718058050
>>718057873
Songs of Syx is badass
Anonymous No.718058050
>>718057983
its really fucking good and its amazing you can get the game free as a "demo" which is just a full game a version or two behind
or you can get the full game for free since its on GOG (gog-games or freegogpcgames)
Anonymous No.718058115
>>718032090
>Bad thing good because popular
I won the argument.
Anonymous No.718058331 >>718060368
>>718057281
thanks for this.
guess I will go back to 2012 DF when I get around to getting back into DF.
is the third party tool for mouse support in the usual pack from bay12 that I always would see DF be packaged in with extra things like the 3d viewer and dwarf therapist?
Anonymous No.718058385
>>718057551
sounds like Armok got his due
Anonymous No.718058439 >>718058686
>>718022910
I cant believe he still hasnt fixed fucking COINS. Like we have no currency for the economy
Anonymous No.718058624
>>718024136
No, DF steam just showed people that DF was never as deep as people pretended it was.
It just had realy shitty controls which makes you think you’re doing some deep shit.
Half the actually mechanically deep things in DF barely affect the gameplay.

The other consequence of shitty controls is that the average non insane DF player takes a LONG time to do stuff which incidentally also helps thinking about what’s going on and making up little stories for yourself.
Df steam just makes things more convenient and now you think less about it because it’s less fiddly.
Playing Df Like a video game is what killed it.
Anonymous No.718058686 >>718058956
>>718058439
The problem with that is in order to do that without it becoming a complete(r) clusterfuck than it already would be he need to figure out stack re-combination. And in order to not make that a shitshow he probably also needs to figure out a multi-haul solution too.
Anonymous No.718058705 >>718060327
>>718057551
>cycling trip through Syria.
Unironically why do people do this? Wasn't there another couple who tried this like 5 years back and got shot?
Anonymous No.718058713
What is the best DF version then? 2012? Can you link so i can play the real game?
Anonymous No.718058829 >>718059661
Come home, white man.
Anonymous No.718058956 >>718059047
>>718058686
This all sounds like cope. These are not technical challenges which require a decade to solve.
Anonymous No.718059047
>>718058956
Those are the actual hurdles beyond whatever actual economic system he finally decides on, but you are right that it shouldn't have taken this long to implement something. But there is already so much shit in the game that he has just half assed that is still broken or not fleshed out. Toady is his own worse roadblock to the game's potential actually being realised.
Anonymous No.718059136
>>718043520
Can’t believe I gave money to those retards.
Anonymous No.718059418 >>718059982
>>718052847
Are people really incapable of setting their own goals?
Anonymous No.718059661 >>718060047
>>718058829
redpill me on this game anon, I have been looking for something like this for a while
Anonymous No.718059790
Never played DF or Rimworld but when I do, and I want to, I will go with Dwarf Fortress since everything is a cheap imitation of it.

It's the original.
Anonymous No.718059807 >>718063082
>>718022110 (OP)
Come home white man
Anonymous No.718059982 >>718060391
>>718059418
>just make your own fun, bro
Anonymous No.718060047
>>718059661
It's made by one lone autist just like DF. There is a demo on steam which is the full game but two or three major updates behind so you can just try it on your own.
Anonymous No.718060080 >>718061837
>>718022110 (OP)
All this
>losing is fun
shit is turning me away from even trying this game.
Anonymous No.718060229
>>718034493
you can build as any major race if you edit the raws.
Anonymous No.718060327 >>718060412
>>718058705
rich liberals who grew up on daddy's money are very disconnected from reality.

>>718052749
even before Steam Toady was wealthy enough he could've digital nomad'd in basically any country to get free healthcare.
Anonymous No.718060368
>>718058331
get the LazyNewbPack for DF2012 and look up some info for what commands to use to fix some bugs with Dfhack and you're good to go.
Lot of good mods for 2012 as well and itll run better meaning your forts can be bigger, older and have 200-250pop.
Anonymous No.718060391
>>718059982
Yeah?
Anonymous No.718060402
>>718030151
then he should stop living in Silverdale aka methhead central
Anonymous No.718060408
>>718034493
Elves in Dwarf Fortress are primitives who live in forests and only have wooden weapons, armor and tools.
Only Dwarves have steel and mirithril in this setting. The best humans have is bronze and iron.
This makes playing non-dwarfs in Advent6ure mode slightly annnoying because, while you can still wield dwarven made steel weapons, iron or bronze armor is the best you can hope for.
Anonymous No.718060412
>>718060327
he has a math doctorate anon, the only people more broke than him were people with visual art degrees
Anonymous No.718060514
>play adventure mode for first time in some dorf fort version 10 years ago
>spawn on a map with a bandit charging at me
>:bandit has died of old age: mid charge

kino
Anonymous No.718060615
>>718047249
not only due to past events of retardation, but modders just aren't as common these days.
sage No.718060891 >>718060948
>>718030937
I forgot how cringe 2011 4chan was
Anonymous No.718060948
>>718060891
I know, it was so great
Anonymous No.718061837
>>718060080
the game is very easy
steel clad dwarves are the most powerful being in the game
you have infinite pop because you will just get more migration waves until you hit pop cap, and if you go down they will just replenish
there is no actual losing unless you lose on purpose or pump magma everywhere or something like that
even the clowns are not really a threat to a big fort
Anonymous No.718061858
>>718037376
>yes, they're trivial to beat
had dozens of eggs spawning that one time I dont consider them any trivial especially if they pop up during a plague or whatever
Anonymous No.718062000 >>718070419
Rimworld story generation is way too fucking basic
There's barely any interactions in-between towns, the events are on a loop, there's no personality the scripts are way too apparent to treat it anything like a story simulator after a couple of saves
Anonymous No.718062124 >>718062157
>>718024136
This is one of the shittiest hot takes I've seen.
Dwarf Fortress development is crippled because the developers are socially crippled white niggers completely paralyzed now that their success has put their insecure asses on spotlight.
Hope you liked trans dwarves because that's the last major update we'll ever get.
Anonymous No.718062157 >>718062245
>>718062124
The game doesn't have trans dwarves
Anonymous No.718062168
>>718022910
Spbp
And /thread
Anonymous No.718062245
>>718062157
>Viewing Dorf McHim's thoughts
>I feel like a woman today. I want to be a woman. I wish I was a woman.
Anonymous No.718062293
>>718057551
>png
Holy shit that's pathetic. Shame he wasn't killed.
Anonymous No.718062553
>>718057551
>told him "NO" and stared angrily
Holy fucking shit how beta can you be
Anonymous No.718062560
>>718025754
the reason why the game ran worse overtime is because the game started development before multicore cpus were common, so every thing was single threaded and individual cpu cores haven't really gotten better since the early 2000s compared to every other type of hardware. now that there's a code monkey on the dev team they're working on making the game mult-threaded. what sucks though is that modding and making tilesets is way harder now, even on the "classic" version
Anonymous No.718063082
>>718059807
Shit game
Anonymous No.718064248 >>718064543
>>718022110 (OP)
They haven't meaningfully expanded DF's content in *ALMOST A DECADE*.
No, moving to steam does not count.
No, slapping a tilepack over the ascci does not count.
No, revising the UI for mouse interface does not count.
Anonymous No.718064543 >>718064706
>>718064248
What about multithreading
Anonymous No.718064641
>>718057551
> Faggot who rides a bike in dangerous country.
> Mugged on a cycling trip.
LMAO deserved.
Anonymous No.718064706
>>718064543
Optimization.
Much needed optimization.
Very welcome optimization.
But still not content.
Anonymous No.718065102 >>718066525
I've had it up to fucking here how far the simulation has gotten, where a dorf with tendencies towards depression will migrate to the fort during rain, get sad and a couple of months later they are downright suicidal and no one can talk them out of remembering that one time they got rained on and then saw a goblin corpse by the doorsteps to the fort.

The updates to the game like taverns and temples and so on have been entertaining, but they need a bit more fleshing out to feel really worth it.
Anonymous No.718066525
>>718065102
You can always just send that dorf out of the fort.
Anonymous No.718066918
>>718033789
Have a cottage/large cabin. I want to take a month off during winter and go there. Bring my PC and these no-life games. Only bad cellular internet. Keep a fire going for heat, cross country ski on the lake, ice fish, play cozy forever games.
Anonymous No.718067006
>>718035943
Don't bother with the steam version. It's just one dude profiting off of the work of a bunch of other people. This was the case originally anyway, doubt it changed.
Anonymous No.718067053
>>718037712
DF is extremely complex and utterly shallow
Anonymous No.718067081 >>718067134
>>718024136
That's not the issue GRRM is running into though, it's his inability to finish writing a book he's been working on for the better part of 20 years, even before the show started.
Anonymous No.718067134
>>718067081
Surely he is finishing the series any day now. He won't join the group of fantasy epic writers who die before finishing the series. Surely not.
Anonymous No.718067841 >>718068014
>>718022910
absolutely this and it's insane people blame the steam release when the guy making this is just insanely lazy
if it takes you 15 years to update a fucking UI and add some pixel graphics, there is no future hope for you game
especially today when you have so many tools to help you with this
that's why almost everyone interested in this genre just moved to playing rimworld
Anonymous No.718068014
>>718067841
Makes me wonder just how much spaghetti code the game has gathered during the years Toady did everything solo. Sounds like a nightmare to unravel even if you need to do that to make the future updates easier to do.
Anonymous No.718069603
>>718057551
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/text/Dwarf%20fortress%20syria/
You've been spreading that sick lie about me for half a decade now, I already figured out who you are and I'm currently talking to my lawyers to get legal advice.
Anonymous No.718070346 >>718070436 >>718070445
>>718022414
This
DF is good in many regards but five animalpeople stuck in a tree doing Line of Sight calculations a billion times a second for no fucking reason shouldn't end my game
Or a pop over 150
Or a simple waterwheel setup anywhere else but in a river
Anonymous No.718070419
>>718062000
TRUE, sadly not even mods can fix this
Anonymous No.718070436 >>718070743
>>718070346
Install DFHack. It has multiple tools to both speed up the simulation and get rid of FPS-death causes.
Anonymous No.718070445 >>718070490
>>718070346
Do people make any sort of mods anymore that had the goal of lowering FPS death as much as possible?
Anonymous No.718070490 >>718072990
>>718070445
DFHack. It's even on Steam, if you're playing that version.
Anonymous No.718070743 >>718071181 >>718079580
>>718070436
I haven't given enough of a fuck to go that far yet because we were promised the Second Coming of Christ with Multithreading and while that improved some things it didn't fix a whole lot, how much effort do I have to put in to improve things with DFHack?
Anonymous No.718071181 >>718071316
>>718070743
Steam version has a easy GUI that lets you just click on whatever you want. Takes four clicks to enable Timestream for example.
There's honestly very little reason to not use the tool, when it improves the experience outright.
Anonymous No.718071316 >>718071363 >>718071572
>>718071181
How does this nebulous thing just labeled "timestream" fix FPS death, it's not really saying much besides a promise
Anonymous No.718071363 >>718071572
>>718071316
Nevermind I'm retarded and didn't read the second window
Anonymous No.718071572
>>718071316
>>718071363
You can also use it to clean all objects, turn the heat calculations etc. simple, exterminate any creature on the map like enemies stuck in bugged pathfinding or hidden cavern dweller invasions (both often cause FPS death without the player knowing they're there), fix a bunch of random bugs when they happen, etc.
Just an overall useful tool that lets you not suffer when the game inevitably shits itself.
Anonymous No.718072187
>>718022110 (OP)
No, DF always had the autism factor that the others lacked.
However, they added gay and tranny dwarves and animals so I dropped it completely.
Terrible, unforgivable mistake. Couldn't help but take on a team of actual fucking trannies to the game, could you, Tarn?
Anonymous No.718072990
>>718070490
Oh yeah I know and use DFhack, but I was wondering has anyone made shit like a mod for "all animals drop just THIS type of leather to lower the FPS drop from different types of leather, no flying animals, no climbing animals" and so on. I don't think DFHack has the ability to ground fliers and disable climbing for example. But it's been a while since I last played DF, been waiting for the next big content update.
Anonymous No.718074571 >>718075405
Boatmurdered was 20 years ago now
Anonymous No.718075405 >>718076641
>>718074571
What’s that?
Anonymous No.718076641
>>718075405
Succession fort played by SA goons
Anonymous No.718079214
>>718032413
RimWorld is dogwater. the systems of the game are simplistic crap, which is why nothing in it is dynamic. raids are scripted, shit spawns outta nowhere and scale with your economy, it really is a tower defense game
Anonymous No.718079580 >>718079747 >>718081845
>>718070743
FPS is very managable these days, especially if you know what you're doing with DF Hack. At around 100 dwarves on a 4x4 embark you can get around 50 FPS indefinitely, assuming you have a decent CPU. I have an Intel i7-10700 and this is about what I can manage, I just need to clean up garbage with DF Hack about once an in-game year. So normalizing temperature, deleting misc objects/dead bodies, cleaning spatters, things like that. It doesn't take long. This is more than playable, and a far cry from the old days where less optimal code, single threaded performance, and worse CPUs would often leave me capping populations at 80 dwarves just to get around 25 FPS. The multi-threading update and performance improvements have been substantial. Dwarf Fortress just has a more fundamental issue; it's a complex game with a lot of O(n^2) operations and you cannot optimize your way out of this. See this thread for reference: https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180561.0
Anonymous No.718079747
>>718079580
this, using dfhack, you can dumb down specific parts of the simulation which tends to make things a lot more manageable. that said, I like to make huge forts on 1x1 embarks, trying to maximize usage of what little space I have. I have been able to maintain a 300dorf forts + 40 visitors. It's really nice once everything is set up properly and you can watch your citizens and visitors create stories
Anonymous No.718079892
>>718053345
it does, just not constantly. need an eruption event and it then flows and fills the entire map if you don't prevent it with blocks that are fire proof
Anonymous No.718081845 >>718082575
>>718079580
How well does DFhack compensate for longer history generations? The few times I've played DF recently I have had to cut world history short to have the base game run just fine with higher FPS for much longer, which does help but also it makes it sort of a bitch to try and find challenge from enemy sieges because sometimes goblins just don't spread that far during world generation.
Anonymous No.718082575
>>718081845
Not sure I could give you a definitive answer but I typically play on large worlds with 125 to 250 years of generated history. In these worlds, (Assuming goblins don't get totally obliterated on the world map) I tend to get pretty healthy goblin populations and yearly sieges. What exactly do you mean by "longer history generation"?