Thread 718047773

Honest thoughts on Dark Souls 2, 11 years later?

>>718047773 (OP)
the game wanted me to believe that those structures on the back can be reached in just one minute by going in a cave to the left

>>718047773 (OP)
I'm about to sleep, I hope this thread is still alive 10 hours from now.

Time gave its due to DS2, it's the best one after DS1. The most variety and good looking armor and weapons and spells and maps, everything you could hope it's here, somehow despite Elden Ring being so massive it doesn't feel as big as ds2 for me.

I guess if what you liked the most about DS1 was Ornstein and Smough, you'll enjoy DS3, BB and ER which are mainly ultra hard boss rushes... But if you liked about DS1 was everything else (exploring the world, lore, characters, customizing your chosen) DS2 improves on all of that at the cost of easier bosses (and honestly they're not THAT easy, st least the dlc ones)

Kinda hated it in 2014, grew to love it as years passed. Not my favourite Souls, but better than anything that came after it (excluding BB).

>>718047773 (OP)
Playing blind, it was kind of had one of my favorite worlds to explore.

Too bad everything about the combat and enemies was kind of shit. Made overly unforgiving so it could get hardcore gamer cred

The best game I've ever played and easily the best in the series. Even better than Demon's

i love it

>>718047773 (OP)
I love DS2 sotfs, its genuinely one of my favorite from soft games

>>718047773 (OP)
Still my favourite and the only one I replayed multiple times.

>11 years later
getting old sucks desu

Shitslop and ugly

>>718047773 (OP)
not that good. 1 is the best.

>>718047773 (OP)
It's fine. There's a lot of ways you can play your character and there's enough content that you can make full use of the stuff you acquire throughout the game. It also feels less linear than Dark Souls III.

>>718047773 (OP)
despite shit ton of flaws, the most consistently fun game in the series. And the only one which actually gets easier as you play cause YOU actually get good. I still have no clue how margit works, despite beating him like every day in ER NTR

Also lighting engine makes it look like brown ass

>>718047773 (OP)
mogs the fuck out of ds3 hard. I never get bored on new runs compared to ds3 where I can't stand playing for 10 mins

>>718047773 (OP)
Fun for the most part, but 100% a downgrade from DaS1. A lot of the areas just felt like I was trudging through mindless corridors, killing forgettable enemies to then get to a forgettable boss. I liked how they tried some new things with the base mechanics, like mixing lifegems in, power stancing, and even the heavier focus on PvP despite not really being a fan of that aspect of the series personally. But, despite all of that, so much of it felt forgettable or lifeless. It's ironic how one of the weirdest entries also has some of the most generic parts to it, like bosses being safe fantasy tropes (big fire demon, medusa, 3 big skeletons that summon other skeletons) or areas being pretty featureless.

It's not a bad game. Genuine 6/10, and I mean that in a good way. I've replayed it a bunch and have a soft spot for a lot it offers.

The DLC I give no excuses for. I came into it years after release and had heard all of this hype, only to be confronted with cool bosses, but absolute dogshit environmental design. The fire and ice DLC especially are endless, lifeless corridors of enemies just sprinkled in. Literal linear halls you meander through, get to a small open area with a shit ton of enemies, then back into halls of nothing. Bosses were dope, but that doesn't excuse the schlock you go through to get to them. Hated the DLC so fucking much.

Great game, meh souls game.
NEXT!

>>718048731
Brume Tower was def not just a bunch of corridors

>>718047773 (OP)
Best in the trilogy, has more soul than any fromsoft game, still trumped by ER and BB though, which is a good thing.

Has the worst game feel I've ever felt.

>>718048797
The fire area? No, it was corridors, elevators, and some ashy open spots. The dark tower part of it was the worst offender. You go through corridor after corridor, up and down ladders, get to the big furnace at the bottom, back through more featureless corridors, then you can actually return to something of note.

Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I remember having a genuinely fun time with the base game, and okay time with the first DLC, then being miserable going through the other two. Again, bosses were great and a highlight after it all. But it doesn't excuse the slog beforehand.

Trite shoveled out in order to capitalize on Dark Souls' delayed popularity boom and sudden notoriety as le most difficult game ever
Nearly every design change from the foundation of 1 exists purely to add "difficulty" in order to keep up with expectations not to make the actual gameplay more interesting
What we ended up with was a schizophrenic mess whose good ideas are plagued by a bevy of shit design decisions and all of its mistakes were forgiven by newfag bandwagoners trying to fit in and who still plague Fromsoft to this day

>>718048731
>A lot of the areas just felt like I was trudging through mindless corridors
I dont get how we are so far apart on this. The areas to me were DS2 second greatest strength after the plot.
I disagree with a lot of what you said but I can see where you are coming from. Im going to need you to expand on why DS2 to you gad worse level designs than the other games in the trilogy.

>>718047773 (OP)
Uncooked poop soup.
Worth a playthrough.

>>718048840
game feel fags ruined souls series by eating adhd games that don't have any other substance to them. While still somehow being worse at game feel than even Nioh 1. ER just having bosses that look like they are from GoW 3 but play like ass

>>718049170
Nioh and ER have terrible game feel too. Only ds1 feels good.

It still fucking sucks. The physics are gay, SM is a joke, the fashion is , for the most part, worse than even Elden Ring.

It was fun to play with the lighting mod though. It LOOKS decent. It needs a remaster.

>>718049004
No... Im a DS2 fans and I have never heard once its the best for being the hardest or hard-core. In fact id say most DS2 fans hate Sekiro and most Sekiro fans hate DS2. What your describing is exactly how I'd describe Sekiro fans, cringe as fuck.
What it excelled in to me and most fans was style. I just thought it had the best setting/plot out of all 3 games. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>718049331
in nioh you headshot an enemy and it's head flies off into the sunset, and it's neck explodes in confetti of drops. That anoying asshole that wouldn't just die, when finally killed, is sliced apart into viscera. DS1 has satisfying backstab animation, nice magic effects and that's it.

>>718047773 (OP)
Going through it again for the first time in around 5 years with a friend. Beat most the base game but haven't reached the dlc which I'm looking forward to.The game is undeniably pretty ugly in most areas and the graphical fidelity has not aged well even compared to DS1. The game also loves throwing npc invaders at you all the time and shitty ganks and cheap deaths that would become more commonplace in later entries.. Tying your iframes for rolls to adaptability rather than just equipment load is just a needlessly complicated system. It's a really rough game overall but I still overall find myself enjoying it more than DS3 despite that being a far more refined and smooth experience. Despite it's lack polish, DS2 has a lot of neat ideas like infusions on basically every weapon (while DS3 is pretty limited), bonfire ascetics as well as just NG+ loot in general and really fun and unique weapons like the blue flame for sorcerers or the santier's spear and what not. I would say it's the middle of the 3 games for me and if including bloodborne, demon souls, and elden ring to the mix is probably on the lower side but still enjoyable.

>>718047773 (OP)
My fondest dark souls memories do not come from DS2, but it is my favorite to replay and make new characters. It just feels the most adaptable and diverse. DS1 feels "solved" and DS3 feels barren especially with the dead online. I got invaded in DS2 just last week and it actually caught me off guard.

>>718047773 (OP)
its aight. it's a comfy game with a lot to do.

>>718047773 (OP)
tried it after finishing 1, didnt like it never finished it
couldnt play 3 because i didnt finish 2 and so i was done with DS

>>718049541
Why is this game ugly as shit? It looks like a jeet take on RPGs or action games in a bad way.

>>718047773 (OP)
Best pvp.

>>718047773 (OP)
Majula is peak
Shits all over Firedink Shrine

>>718047773 (OP)
half-baked rollslop

>>718047773 (OP)
Still my favorite

>>718049629
cause it's a ps4 open world game downscaled in a month to run on ps3

>>718049629
Game was a rushed released with completely fucked lighting and shaders so a lot of the areas look astoundingly ugly.

>>718049629
its a crusty game with crusty textures and crusty lighting also i play ds2 in a small window a lot of the time so the screenshots get even crustier

>>718047879
No it didn't. The level transitions are non-euclidean and this is established at the very start of the game. You spawn in a dark forest, enter the base of a giant tree, then emerge on a sunny coast, and if you turn around the forest isn't there.

>>718049517
>DS1 feels "solved"
I feel the exact same way, good way of putting it. No hate but I don't think I'll ever play it again.

>>718049792
>ds1 feels solved
same for ds3, and er just feels too incomprehensible to be properly solved. So you have the itch to solve it but also it feels pointless

still unfinished garbage filled with poop-jar assets

DS2's exalted conqueror run is the most interesting challenge in any modern From game and I highly reccomend it if you've already mastered the more action oriented successors or don't like them as much.

best pvp ignoring soul memery
that's all

>>718047773 (OP)
It's the best one, but you could maybe argue that it's also the most flawed. Maybe. At the very least it's the most like the original Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, along with the last time From Software made a game like that.

>>718049792
nta it's my favorite of the souls games and that's how i feel about it after having played it for a while. the first time playing it is so magical but after you exhaust all of the different playstyles, using the master key, and play the pvp, there's not much of a reason to go back. i just look back on ds1 with the fondest of memories.
>>718049871
i replay ds3 once in a while because of the all of the cool dlc weapons, but it also feels very solved too yeah. replays of ds3 do feel very like 'greatest hits.' it goes by very quickly and is decently fun at least

>>718049973
DS2 is the best souls game but DeS is by far the weakest.

>>718047773 (OP)
Unfiltered kino. My favorite part was the lava level where the enemies have that ridiculous running animation and aggro you across the map. The game is filled with dumb shit like that and everything looks like ass.

I’m just glad I forgot most about it at this point

>>718047773 (OP)
Majula
Home

>>718050005
I don't know. I think DS1 is the worst and least interesting personally, but I don't think rating games in a tierlist means anything so I haven't thought too hard about it.

>>718049738
It's not just the lighting.
The level data was also rolled back to a pre-alpha state that is more unfinished than the Tokyo Game Show demo.
King's Passage for example has giant black meshes that you can even see from the outside instead of a foggy abyss, missing rain effects in the windows, giant holes between the wall meshes, missing wall and pillar geometry, placeholder floor textures from Undead Burg, broken lightning bolts that only appear right above the arena in one place instead of randomly all around it and much, MUCH more - and that area is just a corridor.

Worst Souls game. Thank god DS3 fixed everything and let people forget about this awful niggergame

>>718047773 (OP)
My favourite of the bunch, maybe behind Demon's Souls, but I think that's nostalgia kicking in. I'm playing it right now, just started farming for the Drakekeeper's set. I tried to go for a quality build, but I got Chime Bell Hammer and I'm desperate to use it, so I'm now much weaker than I should be, because i can't invest in the stats to keep me alive. My health is at 20, since I need 18 Dex, 40 Str, and 12 Int/FTH, but also enough endurance to wear heavier armour.
I will always dream of the game we would've gotten if it didn't get fucked in development.

>>718050463
I imagine ds2 unfucked would've been like dark souls combined with legend of zelda oracle of ages or some shit with the ability to travel between old and new drangleic or some shit with that time pendulum thing

>>718049946
>play normally
>at Nashandra
>put controller down to open a packet of crackers
>cat jumps on the keyboard cause she heard wrapper opening
>her fat paw holds down A
>walk off the edge and die
>laugh it off
>preparing for DLC
>check the deaths
>1
i turned off the game and didn't come back for months

I played Dark Souls first in 2012, then while waiting for DaS2 I played DeS.
Playing DaS2 on release, unpatched was weird. I forced myself to enjoy it because I enjoyed the first two games but the whole time I felt something was off. Only when I killed Nashandra and thought "Wait, that was it? that was THE final boss?" everything set in.

Then all the news about the development came out, together with the patches that changed some areas substantially.
I never bothered to buy the DLCs. Then even a whole new version came out that changed enemy placements and stuff.

What I played back then on release was by far the worst entry in the series. Maybe SOTFS fixes the game, I don't care.

But today there's like 5 levels of meta discussion about this game and no one has a genuine opinion anymore so I don't like talking about it. We're on like cycle 13 of people pretending to love this game ironically

>>718049946
I had a practice character to do the no bonfire no death run, shit was really fun

>>718050857
"wait, that is the final boss?"
>mw king allant
>mw gwyn the parriable
Fake fan pretending final bosses weren't ever anything but you aura farming on weak enemy

>>718050857
SOTFS and the dlcs improve ds2 but if everything from the artstyle to the combat feels off to you, you won't like it. Also I don't think there's a single person who actually likes the nashandra fight lol

>>718049946
are there enough people in sotfs to use the mini-white soapstone to repair my items and refill estus?

>>718050980
nashandra is alright, so are semon of dong, dragonrider and covetous. Idk why we started pretending that being artorias aura farmer is the only way to be a good souls boss, when for first two games it was just random non threatening entities for half the game

>>718050857
>no one has a genuine opinion anymore so I don't like talking about it.
>people pretending to love this game ironically
aren't you admitting you're part of the problem?

better than bloodborne

>>718050993
just get santiers spear and have infinite durability weapons and use lifegems
>>718051032
she's alright but i think she's just boring to fight and boring looking idk, but hey that's my bias coming into play. even compared to gwyn i think she's just lame lol. and it's not even like a gwyn being at 1% power and it being sad or allant being a slug frog thing in reality after you kill his deadlier spirit fake form
dragonrider, semendong and covetous are all also fine bosses, i agree. covetous also has some fun gimmicks but he's such a pushover, that you only really see them if you're fucking around

>>718047773 (OP)
PFFFFFT HAHAHAHAHA

>>718048731
DaS2 went two steps back for every step forwards.
It really had some good new features
>Power stancing
>WAY more interesting spells across all subcatagories (miracles, pyroamncies, sorcieries) and even intriducing a new one (hexes).
>good build variety with having one weapon of every category for every conceivable buil like a STR based twin sword
>more ring slots for better variety
>upgrading spellcasting foci
>better PvP

But then it really dropped the ball on so many other things
>looks like shit
>controls like shit
>hollowing mechanic
>enemy placement
>boss variety
>world and level design
>durability mechanic
>NPCs
>OST
>despawning enemies
>soul memory
>jank hitboxes
>"remember this guy/item from Dark Souls xD?"
>balance (blunt damage being OP as fuck as well magic)
>the dumb backhand slap instead of the kick
>shrine of winter
>useless torch/light mechanic

To their defense, development of this game was pure hell and it's a miracle they still managed to make a game of that quality under these conditions but it really pales in comparison to the other souls games. Miyazaki was working on Bloodborne in the meantime and it shows.

>>718051267
dont forget changes in ng+ and bonfire ascetics

Fromsoft regressed in quality but never recovered since.

>>718051058
What makes you think that?
I voiced my genuine opinion. But I can tell when someone like >>718050959 or
>>718051139 posts that it's just trolls who say that the worst game is good actually. It's an old trick to get replies.

>>718051336
really liked the NG+ changes, the first and last time I ever bothered with NG+. But I didn't like the aesthetics. Not on a game design perspective, they're fine, I just personally disliked them because I only ever used them when an enemy I was farming loot from despawned and I was forced to burn one. In my eyes they became a bandaid fix for a mechanic that shouldn't be there.

>>718051267
I liked the durability in this game. on release, it was fucked. something to do with hitting twice because of frames, or something
but having to keep a 'backup' weapon or just a second weapon to use as opposed to one singular weapon to steamroll everything was neat. but im also a big fan of using two different weapons at all times anyway. i think with a better level design, it couldve made a justification for having two weapons. tighter, narrow corridors for thrusting weapons or vertical attack. then wider open areas with a group of enemies for sweeping attacks. they kinda already have this, but not enough if you ask me. should've been an entire level stuck inside a narrow dungeon, like the catacombs from ER but not shitty
>"remember this
There's very few moments of that, honestly. especially compared to 3.

>>718049871
Im the opposite. Ive soloed 90% of froms bosses, all of ER, all of DS3. I cant beat the Demon Prince or a single DLC boss outside the grave warden. I do not understand it but the DS3 DLC fucking destroyed me. It haunts me to this day that every boss is unbeatable for reasons I cant begin to comprehend.
My theory is I play sword and board and the DLC is about magic but no idea. Fucking kills me, especially after how easy I found most of DS3 on my last run.

>>718051445
bold of you to assume i am a troll when i just love ds2 and loved it ever since playing it and expected 3 to build on it, like 2 build on 1, instead series got completely shit on and now i'm forced to fucking fast roll, mw ds1 being my ideal heavy tank fantasy game.
Also majula clears every other hub, and quest writing became zanzibarty in new games.
And ds2 the only one that treats old forgotten lore as lil trivia instead of extremely plot important content. I fucking love that half the areas you travel are completely fucking irrelevant to anything and i don't have to think about how snake lady or scorpion lady related to vendrick like i need to in ds3/er

>>718047773 (OP)
Shit

>>718051613
all souls games are about greatswords or quality maxing

>>718051613
sword and board should be fine for the dlcs desu

>>718051613
sword and board is really just a demon souls / dark souls 1 build.

>>718051658
That's a lot of words to say you like being a dumb bitch.

>>718051714
Agreed, except DS2 I found the mace better, and greatswords were horrific when ER launched. Bizarely bad.
I replayed ER for the DLC though and it felt completely different with the greatswords not being nerfed to shit.
Only thing worse was Gale in the original BG3 launch patch. Creepy bipolar fag rapist that anons who played kater cant believe was ever bad.

>>718051951
being a dumb bitch is pretending boss design and build variety didn't fell of a cliff since ds3

>>718051267
>It really had some good new features
No it didn't
>>Power stancing
Awful, added nothing, all combinations were shit and worse than 2 handing
>>WAY more interesting spells across all subcatagories (miracles, pyroamncies, sorcieries) and even intriducing a new one (hexes).
Increments expected from any sequel, and even there it wasn't brilliant. DS3 revamped it all from the better, giving each build more damage types
>>good build variety with having one weapon of every category for every conceivable buil like a STR based twin sword
Yeah because it removed physical upgrade path, retarded thing again
>>more ring slots for better variety
But you could count the viable rings on the... Fingers of an hand
>>upgrading spellcasting foci
What?
>>better PvP
Incremental improvement expected from a sequel after 1 setting a low bar, and even then it sucked

Dark Souls 2 faggots are the most delusional retarded bunch
Yeah no shit they added more spells, were you expecting LESS? No, it's that you are desperate to validate Dark Souls 2 as worthy sequel (which it is not) in any way you can.

>>718051746
Than why, WHY!? Just DS3 DLC has my number.

>>718051714
greatswords or ultra greatswords?

>>718052001
>Boss design and build variety fell off a cliff in the game that actually fixed those elements

>>718047773 (OP)
It's better than Skyrim.

>>718047773 (OP)
It has some of the worst movesets in the trilogy
Why the fuck does the GREATAXE R2 have less range than a dagger?

>>718047773 (OP)
You will find to this day it is still incredibly divisive here.

In my personally neutral view, its a game that did some things really way and some things extremely poorly. So if you focus on the good aspects and can overlook the bad, its some of the best in the lineup. If you tend to not be able to compromise on some of the bad aspects, you probably consider it one of the worst in the lineup.

>>718052073
Why is the boss lag worse than playing a mmo with third world connection?

>>718052110
lmao

>>718052110
>Dogshit is better than dog vomit

>>718049371
>troon character

>>718051445
i said so because they seem to be two extremes
you claim no one has a genuine opinion anymore and then we're on the 13th cycle of people pretending ironically
why do they have to pretend? do you think its impossibel for someone to like the game? if they answer is Yes, then you're part of the problem. if the answer is no, then you have worded it very poorly

>>718052073
>fixed those elements

>neutered shield
>neutered armor
>removed midroll
>heavy roll unviable
>magic is actual ass damage wise
>mages can't even stay ranged cause >everything has a gap closer
>pivoting on every enemy, so positioning is not viable
>literally created rollslop
>new special attacks do less damage than R1

DS3 broke what didn't need fixing

Including somehow cool menu songs, who the fuck puts a boss fight and foreboding ambience as menu songs, not des/ds1/ds2. And series hasn't recovered since.

>>718052073
miss games with this movement. now every game is just fortnite slop. max payne is the best game ever.

>>718052035
Idk bro maybe you're being too greedy maybe you're being too passive with your shield maybe you're just not getting in close enough with your sword.

>>718047773 (OP)
It's fine. It's heavily flawed and it's the second worst Souls game, but I don't mind doing a playthrough of it every other year. Souls games are high caliber so it being one of the bad ones means it's still better than most games

I replayed it a month ago and other than durability and adp, which I cheated out, and those two dlc runbacks it's pretty good.

>>718052035
you have to read the lore, bro
it will open your third eye

>>718052398
it also has the worst CC OST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjAhFatqGxM

>>718052183
I should add on that the 2-3 personally worse offenses of DS2 affected me and yet I was able to overlook them in favor of what a great game I think it turned out to be.

Three major things that are faults for day on purchasers like me:

-graphical downgrade from the pre release demo
-chaotic development cycle leading to some questionable design and unfinished areas in base game
-spitting in the face of day 1 pc players by making us pay almost full price for scholar despite it being a goddam patch of what were supposed to get in the first place

That neutral is often discussed here:
-movesets are bad. I disagree, some are jank sure, but every from game has good or bad movesets.
-fashion
hard disagree for me, I enjoyed the armor set design a lot
-durability is gay

That said, in the long run I found the good way outweighs it:

-varied world that felt like an adventure with radically varying environments, good level connection, amazing hub town etc.
-amazing pvp improvement over ds1
-powerstancing, some good health design choices, some really interesting bosses
-some of the best souls dlc released.

but yea, I get it if you feel burned by some of the bad points and cant stomach it, you lose no respect from me.

>>718047773 (OP)
Despite its flaws I still like it, maybe even more than 3 since 2 at least felt original while 3 felt like a remix of 1.

>>718052005
you're weird

>>718052398
>>neutered shield
It fixed shields, that actually raise on frame 1 and have enemies that bounce them
>>neutered armor
It fixed armor, that provides actual damage reduction and poise that works
>>removed midroll
Good
>>heavy roll unviable
Completely false, heavy roll is extremely viable in Dark Souls 3, unlike Dark Souls 2. You can actually use heavy roll to rrposition or dodge short reach grabs because it has the iframes for it, making >70% equip load a viable playstyle
>>magic is actual ass damage wise
Wrong, it's actually really strong provided you are good at using it, with magic being also able to stun enemies more reliably and having greater alpha strike potential with active buffs
>>mages can't even stay ranged cause >everything has a gap closer
Skill issue
>>pivoting on every enemy, so positioning is not viable
Projection, positioning is very viable in Dark Souls 3, while original dark Souls 2 had busted tracking
>>literally created rollslop
Meme from shitters
>>new special attacks do less damage than R1
Wrong

>>718047773 (OP)
I think the actual game is alright, not as bad as some made it out to be. A lot of locations are breathtaking even if the map doesn't make a lot of sense. At the same time, it's also not the amazing game its diehard fans would have you believe, having plenty of jank between the gameplay, enemy placement and certain bosses.

Now for me, the most damning thing about it is the story and its themes, especially the later addition of Aldia. Everything about it feels like some smartass trying to think outside the box while simultaneously rejecting the very premise of Dark Souls. Imagine being presented with the premise of DS1 and going "what if I don't WANT to be cursed? what if I tell the curse to shove it and I'll just go my OWN way". Because that's basically the underlying themes of DS2, a game that actively rejects the very premise of Dark Souls when it's the very premise that helps to frame its themes. The most retarded part is how it completely ignores the fact that DS1 already presented its own counterargument to the world's status quo in lieu of ushering the Dark Age but somehow DS2 thought it was genuinely being clever by rejecting either side altogether, acting as if Aldia's the smartest guy in the room for figuring this all out (read: he's not). For me, anyone who genuinely says they love the story/themes of DS2 just tells me that they never actually liked Dark Souls in the first place, they just liked the vibe of its dark fantasy setting.

Aside from that, DLC bosses were genuinely great, even if the locations leading up to them were kinda ass.

>>718052578
>but every from game has good or bad movesets
How the fucking halberd R2 spin survived all the way to Elden Ring is beyond me.

>>718052654
I think aldia serves as a crutch to keep 2 as an 'in world' sequel to one, but allowing it to be set in a distant land from the first so it can do its own thing and not be too tied down to ds1 lore. And I allow it because I think it worked and I enjoyed the vibe without it having to be too beholden as a sequel.

>>718052480
For only the DLC and no other game?
>>718052562
I know the 3 DLC lore worse than any other, you could be on to something!

>>718052763
>takeshi did you get that moveset done yet?
>takeshi wants to get home and fuck his pillow
>takeshi decides to copy and paste that moveset from the last game
>turns out all the devs at from were doing what takeshi did at some point or another

I mean, developing a game is hard I guess.

>>718052654
>DLC bosses were genuinely great
Kalameet on fentanyl, Nashandra with summons and more dudes in armor swinging 3 hit combos and occasional jumping attacks with huge vertical hitboxes

>>718052654
I gotta disagree. The idea that DS2 'rejects' the premise of 1 I believe misunderstands what DS2 is doing thematically. 1 presents the binary choice of prolongin the Age of Fire or embrace the Age of Dark. DS2 reframes this by showing that these choices have happened countless before and the world remains trapped in a cycle regardless. Aldia isn't some smug genius outsmarting the premise, he's more a tragic figure driven to madness by his refusal to accept an endless loop he can't truly break. His 'third way' isn't clever posturing if you ask me, it's more like desperate resistance even if it does mean wandering forever. Far from ignoring DS1 ideas, 2 expands on them, so instead of Fire or Dark it asks 'What if neither is enough and yet the curse still persists?'
I don't think this is a betrayel of DS's spsirit, but like a natural evolution of thinking or exploring 1's assumptions. I think it's offering different perspectives on the same doomed world, which is very much in line even with real life. The 'centrist' opinion, if you will, or just asking for a middle in between two extremes.

ds2 is the only fucking game with a story

>>718047773 (OP)
For everything it does right it also does something wrong. Still cameout great but holy fuck does it also have some problems.

>>718053105
It's not like the game even presents the third option as correct either, they even go out of their way to show the immoral things Aldia has caused himself.

>>718053105
>DS2 reframes this by showing that these choices have happened countless before and the world remains trapped in a cycle regardless.
And that's because Dark Souls 2 doesn't understand the original Dark Souls
These choices never happened. Every and all Dark Lords were a failure unable to contain humanity
Dark Souls 2 is based on fanfiction os the original Dark Souls that tries to be 2deep4u but misses Kaathe and his most crucial dialogues

>>718053027
To be fair, I was only thinking of the 3 dudes in armor but yeah the rest were pretty jank.

>good mechanics
>meh base story, great DLC stories
>hollows look like green goblins
>amazing pvp
Source: pre ordered Collector's Edition and got all DLCs on release

>>718047773 (OP)
Just not that good
It was fun for co-op but overall missed the brilliant direction that Miyazaki puts in his games

>>718053304
Oh yeah there's also the worse Sanctuary Guardians in Loyce
It's insane how worse and uninspired boss design is in Dark Souls 2

>>718053261
>Every and all Dark Lords were a failure unable to contain humanity
How does this go against anything in DS2?

>>718052654
The funny thing is I see Dark Souls 2 as a story about Dark Souls as a franchise, which is what people usually say about DS3. Vendrick (Shibuya) had ambitious goals and failed, Aldia (Tanimura) was left to pick up the pieces, Shanalotte (DS2) says she was born flawed, it's all commentary on the game's development and the seemingly impossible task of making a worthy sequel to Dark Souls. Nashandra wanting the throne is akin to Bamco trying to assert control over the IP.

I just want to say I'm playing through Bloodborne for the first time and I'm loving it. That is all.

>>718053427
Lovecraft is way dope.

DaS2 hate is an instant DaS baby detector.
You instantly out yourself as a 10 year old on your xbox360, who probably never even played Demon's Souls before it.

>>718053105
While I agree that DS2 never presents its neutral stance as "being in the right" nor does it actively endorse Aldia, I still disagree in that by rejecting the very premise of the curse it means it fundamentally misunderstands how the world of Dark Souls presents humanity on a thematic level. DS2 presents a centrist pov that doesn't really engage the argument, choosing to abstain from it by simply saying "I don't like this at all". At that point, it's not really engaging the work itself when it's more preoccupied in chasing alternatives.

>>718053426
That's honestly a better read than how the story plays out as-is, and I can buy it as a reflection of the dev team's struggle in coming up with a story for the sequel in the first place.

>>718053527
I always think of them as ADD Sekiro fanboys who just couldn't pay attention or build a character without heavy gaurdrails.
The amount of anons who put Sekiro first and DS2 last is insane.

>>718047773 (OP)
Des>Sekiro>Ds2>>>>>>Ds1>>>>>>>Ds3>literal ogshit>>>>>>>>>Elden Shit

>>718053548
Look how Aldia's option is presented mechanically. The only way the player gets to not go insane is if they get Vendrick to bless a crown of their choice which staves off the curse. Basically, you transcend the curse, but gain the responsibility of ruling a land of subjects who don't have that privilege (e.g Lucatiel) and have to pull them out of the hole yourself - or you don't, and simply walk away, and who knows what happens to you? Neither of those paths are centrism, but true radicalism in that you place all your bets on something unproven.

>>718053548
I don't understand why you think it's rejecting the premise desu. Aldia and the Emerald Herald are not simply refusing to participate like say Daimon from Dark Arisen, they're searching for a solution to the curse specifically.

>>718051658
Yes anon, pretending to be retarded is the oldest troll strategy in the book.
You're doing it right now because you're trolling and already got 1 more (You) and that makes you happy.
Here have mine too!

>>718052375
No one just "likes" DaS2 though. It's always people competely shitting on the other games and saying that Fromsoft peaked with DaS2.
Shit like
>>718051658
it's just trolling. Same with people suddenly starting to say Fallout 3 was so much better than NV. It's a modern meta trend localised to this board, infinitely detached from video games. You don't need to give opions like these the benefit of the doubt when you know how 4chan contrarianism operates, especially the modern kind.

And DaS2 just has too many objective flaws that are owed to the extremely disastrous development that is public knowledge for it to be genuinely someone's top spot, except maybe a PvPer but their opinions don't matter since these games are 99% not multiplayer games.
That's like someone saying GTA is the best racing game since you can do shit outside of the car.

>>718053261
That assumes Kaathe’s dialogue is the canonical truth, but both he and Frampt are manipulative with their own agendas. DS2 works from the premise that, no matter which path is chosen, Fire or Dark both fail to create lasting changes, and the cycle endures. That’s the cycle DS2 is interested in, not fanfiction, but an open-ended question to DS1 that follows its logic to a natural conclusion.

>>718053548
I'm saying that DS2 is reframing the argument. DS1's conflict is binary, as we all know is Fire or Dark, and DS2 accepts that the binary existed. But it's questioning whether the relevant when the cycle itself is constant. It's not so dismissive as "I don't like it", but more, "What if both sides are chasing illusions?" I personally believe that's a deeper engagement with DS1's theme and not a retreat from them.

>>718054359
So everyone who disagrees with you doesn't exist?

>>718054359
>always people competely shitting on the other games
anon, you're dealing with extremes again. that's my point. i can literally look through this very thread and find people NOT doing that.
if you WANT to make the claim people don't share genuine opinions but engage in extremism, then youre just being hypocritical
>trolling
yes, that exists for literally every game discussed on this Austrian Art Sharing platform. you cant take trolls, which you seem to be very good at pointing out, as the majority. let alone the absolute

>>718054117
>are not simply refusing to participate
To be clear, I'm refering to the story's throughline, not the characters.

>they're searching for a solution to the curse specifically
The story rejects the very premise of DS on the onset by even making the curse a problem that somehow needs a solution. I can accept the dillemma as some cosmic horror commentary of humanity finding ways to problem solve its shortcomings and flaws but never really getting there, but it's not like the rest of the game focuses on that throughout your journey.

>>718053398
Because Dark Souls 2 misses that and genuinely believes the world went through the Age of Dark at one or several points
The implication of dark and fire alternating within the trilogy timeline and the resulting need of breaking the dichotomy of dark and fire is proven wrong when every attempt at an age of dark was a failure and that's exactly a plotpoint of Dark Souls 3.
So when Dark Souls 2 toys around with the metaphysics of Dark Souls without understanding it, it ends up resulting as fanfiction that adds nothing and feels disjointed to Dark Souls.

The Age of Fire and Dark have defined meanings and are substantiated in what they represent. Aldia is rambling about some third option that is not defined and the game ends with nothing happening either way because it's all above the writers paygrade to actually deliver a satisfying payoff that gives meaning and substance to the pseudo intellectual crap Aldia says.

In Dark Souls 3 a way to actually break the cycle of Fire and Dark is introduced with the Profaned Flame. It is elaborated upon and not through some nonsensical monologues that end up in a nothingburger.

>>718047773 (OP)
It might be the roughest one in term of fidelity and polish, yet it just has the most interesting gameplay and level design after DS1 first half. DS3 is like the opposite, it's polished & shiny on the surface but is bland and forgettable in many parts.

>>718054409
>That assumes Kaathe’s dialogue is the canonical truth,
Souls characters never lie
>DS2 works from the premise that, no matter which path is chosen, Fire or Dark both fail to create lasting changes,
So fanfiction
>but an open-ended question to DS1 that follows its logic to a natural conclusion.
It assumes a lot of wrong shit about Dark Souls 1 and tries to canonize it for its own separate plotline.
>"What if both sides are chasing illusions?"
Because it doesn't understand them in the first place, so the only foundation Dark Souls 2 writers can give to their game is assuming the entire premise of Dark Souls is somehow meaningless or wrong

>>718054546
>>718054576
I guess I'm just not understanding why you guys are framing it as if the game doesn't acknowledge the difference between fire and dark, or rather the curse in general. Like Aldia never once says that there was a successful age of dark nor does he claim that the age of fire isn't a method to sustain the world, the game never contradicts the curse in that regard.

>>718054746
>Souls characters never lie
Literally false. They either mislead, omit, or bend the truth across the series, such as the obvious ones being Patches and Lautrec, and then Frampt versus Kaathe. Go a step further and look at item descriptions, and we have Seath's Channelers. The whole point is you're piecing together a biased, incomplete history. DS2 isn't fanfiction for exploring the idea that both Fire and Dark are part of the same endless cycle. That's a valid reading of DS1's own ambguity, and saying it assumes wrong shit presumes your reading is the only correct one. When Miyazaki himself entire approach is to invite multiple interpretations.

>>718047773 (OP)
I don't think it's as bad as some Souls players like to claim it is, but it is definitely the weakest of the Dark Souls games (which is still overall top tier)
There are a couple of unique aspects in DS2 that are great and help it stand out

>>718054651
>it's polished & shiny
Yeah, literally. Game looks downright weird, glad they fixed that going from DS3 to Elden Ring.

>>718054994
>Literally false. They either mislead, omit, or bend the truth across the series, such as the obvious ones being Patches and Lautrec, and then Frampt versus Kaathe.
So they never lie
>Go a step further and look at item descriptions, and we have Seath's Channelers. The whole point is you're piecing together a biased, incomplete history.
Which doesn't change that Kaathe says things about the Age of Fire and Dark that the writers of Dark Souls 2 didn't understand
>DS2 isn't fanfiction for exploring the idea that both Fire and Dark are part of the same endless cycle.
It is absolutely fanfiction. It is such poor fanfiction that the alternative results into a non-specified nothing because the game literally can't present through visual means the actual metaphysics it can't understand in the first place. Dark Souls 2 quite literally doesn't understand Dark Souls. Usurpation of Flame is a great example of what a well written Dark Souls 2 should have had, an ending that uses the actual metaphysics of Dark Souls (the bind all humanity has with the Fire through the Darksign) and allow the player to take the Flame and profane it with curse (which defies causality and escapes the constant entropy the normal Flame is subjected too) corrupting it and containing it through the sacrifices of pilgrims of Londor. This is the perfect ending, and it actually connects with the Painting of Ariamis and the Dark Lord cult of New Londo.
This ending has proper build up, introducing the fading Flame of Chaos, the unfading Profaned Flame, Wolnir,... and payoff. Factions are all centered around the main plotpoint of the game. Dark Souls 2 is poor fanfiction.
>That's a valid reading of DS1's own ambguity, and saying it assumes wrong shit presumes your reading is the only correct one.
My reading is the correct one because unlike you, I actually read
>When Miyazaki himself entire approach is to invite multiple interpretations.
Completely false

Playing it on PC at release felt awful. Hitboxes were terrible, enemy placement was sketchy and It had like 4 or 5 unsufferable bosses that spammed you with ads.

I also remember to enjoy the PvP in the blue guys arena, but 2 weeks in everyone was running in full havels with some electric crossbows and spamming hexes.

The fact they had the audacity to sell the game again with directx11 felt terrible too. Overall i have bad memories about it

>>718054939
It's not so much a lack of acknowledgement or contradiction, in fact it acknowledges it plenty of times with the whole "bearer of the curse" moniker. The issue lies in how the story approaches that very premise, like it's some problem that needs solving, instead of being an intrinsic part of the argument. The very notion of even needing to "solve the curse" flies in the face of how DS1 presents it, especially when the curse is reflective of humanity's struggle and their position in the world under the Lords.

>>718048731
it seems you are putting too much weight on the visuals of the levels and not examining the actual level design, mechanically speaking. DS2 has the most engaging one in the series, the DLCs especially

>>718047773 (OP)
A noble fuck up

>>718052005
seethe harded lmao

>>718052654
No offense but I don't think you understood the basics of Ds2 lore

>>718047773 (OP)
>Honest thoughts on Dark Souls 2, 11 years later?
Still my favorite souls game to date.

>>718048387
Honestly shorter than I expected

>>718056052
Lmao none taken. DS2 lore is actually pretty easy to understand because the hard part is recognizing how it all flies in the face of DS1.

>>718055496
Odd that you claim DS2 is fanfiction while trying to justify it with your own DS3 fan lore. That’s completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and you’ve abandoned engaging with my points and are just asserting “authority”over the lore.
I’ve made my case in that DS2 is thematically engaging with DS1’s ambiguity, not fanfiction or a betrayal. Any attempt to drag in unrelated games or hypothetical endings won’t change that, and it’s clear you’re too biased to admit alternative interpretations. Even then, that remark of yours of 'yours being the correct choice' completely removes any reason to continue, like a child going "Nuh uh, im right because i said so!!". So I'm done here.

>>718056434
>DS3 fan lore.
There's no fan lore. Everything in Dark Souls 3 is built up from and thematically connected to the universe set up by Dark Souls
>and are just asserting “authority”over the lore.
Yes, I have authority over lore because I understand it better than you.
>DS2 is thematically engaging with DS1’s ambiguity
But there's no ambiguity in the first place because the original is quite clear. You are claiming ambiguity to justify ignorance.
The fact remains that Dark Souls 2 is poor fanfiction, and "what if the core foundational elements of the worldbuilding of Dark Souls were meaningless" is not clever, just shit.
>and you’ve abandoned engaging with my points
Funny, from someone that conveniently skipped 80% of the post you're replying to because you have no retort and weak arguments.

it filtered billions with its ludonarrative subversions. i will never doubt team B ever again.

>>718055824
>The very notion of even needing to "solve the curse" flies in the face of how DS1 presents it
You keep repeating this, but you're not really explaining. How is it not something to be solved? How is the attempt to solve it not in line with how it's presented in DS1?

>Ds2 is the last good game
>no it's actually Ds3
>le Elden Ring is actually a good game

all shit takes itt
post 2009 fromsoft has 5 good games

DeS and Ds1 are peak 'older' fromsoft
BB and Sekiro are strong standalone titles that hold meaning beyond 'here's more dark souls' because they actually deviated, even if just a little
and the fifth is Armored Core 6, which isn't even that good of an Armored Core game yet still mogged the industry with ease

Ds2 Ds3 Elden Ring and DeS demake are all trash

>>718047773 (OP)
soulful and comfy asf. it had so many nice little quirks that i noticed on my first run, like how projectiles that fly past fabric on your body cause the fabric to flow with the passing wind. it's the little shit like that that made ds2 shine.

>>718057019
The Darksign was a curse placed on what eventually became humanity as we know it. Humanity exists in DS the way they do specifically because of the curse, with humanity's essence being fed into the cycle of fire as imposed and propagated by Gwyn.

The very notion of even "solving" the curse like it's some kind of illness shows a clear misunderstanding on the writer's part of how the curse is even presented as an intrinsic part of humanity's struggle in having to grapple with the status quo. Removing the curse isn't like some magic cure-all to humanity's problems when its purpose is to quell the very game's namesake of the "dark soul". Opposite to that as presented in DS1 is already the ushering of the Age of Dark by extinguishing the First Flame: a proliferation of humanity's free will but also the vices that come with it, the "dark" within the soul if you will. DS2 presenting some sort of middleground alternative in somehow "solving" the curse (which it barely even elaborates on in detail nor its potential consequences) shows a clear misunderstanding of how it's applied to the themes of the story, treating it like some kind of plague or immortal affliction instead of being an intrinsic part of the push and pull between the gods and humanity.

And I say all this because it's not as if more comprehensive alternatives weren't presented either. DS3 actually presents plenty of them, with the The Lord of Hollows ending going even further with humanity gaining lordship over the flame. It even manages a solution not unlike DS2 while actually adheres to those underlying themes by way of the End of Fire ending (which is similarly echoed in Elden Ring's Age of Stars).

the best one

The only sequel to demons souls in the entire series. My favorite souls game. The dlcs make the game untouchable. GOAT

>>718058580
Remember Vanilla+ DLCs is the best. Scholar of the first Shit ruined the game.

>>718054359
>fallout 3 better

New vegas has better writing and better, but fallout 3 is a better "run into weird shit" game. For a fallout game NV is weirdly restrained in terms of odd shit happening, too focused on damn politics. The less american you are the less likely you are to like NV

>>718050993
>refilling estus in exalted conqueror
Nuh uh, you learn to live with your ~10 estus sips for the whole game
Durability is a real issue. Your only real option is to use multiple weapons until you reach dranleic and can buy repair powder

>>718054576
>flame never failed
>profaned flame is canonical answer to the cycle
The fuck you talking about, were you snorting some smoughtown or another shitty fanfic youtuber?

>>718047773 (OP)
I liked the trailers. Hollow Lullaby and Of Masks and Dragons were fire.
I've never played a single Souls like game yet, I just liked the music

>>718058651
>The less american you are the less likely you are to like NV
I can confirm this. NV is gay and cringe. Fallout 3 is kino.
t.not American

>>718054576
>Because Dark Souls 2 misses that and genuinely believes the world went through the Age of Dark at one or several points
No, it doesn't. The "cycle" it describes is the flame starting to flame, humans starting to become cursed, they gather to the flame out of irrational compulsion, and eventually someone links it. The alternate ending of DS2 is your character realizing that they are only here due to this parasitic psychic bond and just fucking off to let someone else do it. This narrative is continued in 3, in which this cycle of the flame being relinked over and over has depleted the world of its vitality.
>Aldia is rambling about some third option that is not defined
Exactly. It's not defined. You just ignore the flame and fuck off, rather than sacrificing yourself to it or trying to harness or destroy it.
>In Dark Souls 3 a way to actually break the cycle of Fire and Dark is introduced with the Profaned Flame.
No, the profamed flame was just a second, shittier version of chaos, another failure on the pile.

>>718059053
The flame starting to fade, rather

>>718059053
>flame starting to flame
do you mean wane or something?
but what does dark souls 2 ending mean? i get you kill Nashandra and you lock yourself in a tomb, but what does all of that mean? did we still link the flame? if we walk away, is it not the same as dark souls 1 where we just dont link it again. so its still linking for the fire age or the dark age?

I don't recall hollowing ever being truly cured in DS2. Vendrick's blessing can't remove it, just halts it.

>>718058451
Nothing you've said about DS1 goes against DS2 though, the way you described it is how the game presents the Age of Fire and Dark. Aldia himself specifically points it out in the same light, it is even his most iconic line from the game.

You're the one forcing the "solve" interpretation here, that isn't how it's presented in DS2. Aldia isn't viewing it as fighting an affliction and the game overall does not treat in that way, at the absolute worst it is portrayed as an unreliable stopgap.

>>718058451
is The Ringed City DLC also fanfiction on the same level as 2's because of the painting? its a third option, no? showing that it doesnt have to be black or white

>>718047773 (OP)
Scholar of the first sin ruined the game and we never got a remaster.

I don't trust them to make a remaster.

>>718059156
>i get you kill Nashandra and you lock yourself in a tomb, but what does all of that mean? did we still link the flame?
Yes. The emerald herald says so explicitly at one point
>if we walk away, is it not the same as dark souls 1 where we just dont link it again.
In dark souls 1 the dark end is you kill gwyn and then somehow put out the fire or otherwise prevent it from being relinked and it goes out eventually. This ending is not canon. In DS2, you either link the flame, or say "not my problem" and just fuck off, letting some other retard do it. Either ending could be canon. If you buy the BOTC = Wolnir theory, the alternate end of DS2 is canon.

>>718059473
This but unironically.

>>718059473
>>718059660
Retards

>>718047773 (OP)
The last true souls game.

>>718059053
>The "cycle" it describes is the flame starting to flame, humans starting to become cursed, they gather to the flame out of irrational compulsion, and eventually someone links it. The alternate ending of DS2 is your character realizing that they are only here due to this parasitic psychic bond and just fucking off to let someone else do it.
Which is also wrong as Dark Souls 2 doesn't understand that Gwyn caused the Curse of the Undead, and rather believes that is innate of every human and hollows the true form with the current one a fleeting facade. That's again fanfiction that misses the point of the Darksign and Gwyn ENFORCING humanity's bond with the Flame.
>This narrative is continued in 3, in which this cycle of the flame being relinked over and over has depleted the world of its vitality.
Lol funny way of saying nothing happens in 2
>You just ignore the flame and fuck off, rather than sacrificing yourself to it or trying to harness or destroy it.
No, that was the Walk Away ending that already existed. You are trying to conflate that with Aldia to justify how barebones and poor the lore about Aldia and everything about his goals is, in spite of him costantly barking nonsense at the player
>No, the profamed flame was just a second, shittier version of chaos, another failure on the pile.
No, the Profaned Flame is an unending flame created from the Abyss, with the witches that created it turning into creatures resembling the Hand of Manus and Sulyvahn, having Imbued himself with it, having the ability to turn into pure roots of darkness while keeping his sanity. Because when the curse is imbued in the Flame, then it becomes a blessing. Hollows don't go mad as their soul is linked to a now unending flame. This is why the pilgims are on a martyrdom to accumulate curse and provide the 6 sigils to seal the uncontrollable Profaned Flame. Of course, you retard wouldn't know that, you are a lorelet the believes Dark Souls 2 has a good story.

It's pure sovlfvl kino, the best souls game ever made.

>>718059736
>Which is also wrong as Dark Souls 2 doesn't understand that Gwyn caused the Curse of the Undead, and rather believes that is innate of every human and hollows the true form with the current one a fleeting facade
Meanwhile in reality,
>Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity. And men assumed a fleeting form.
You unironically haven't even played DS2.

>>718059607
Idk why people believe there are canon and non canon endings to DS. It just literally doesn't matter what you pick. Either you link or some other loser who waltz in right after you.

>>718059340
>its a third option, no?
No

>>718059736
your fanfiction about profaned flame being relevant at all and in any way being connected to londor is some good lore. Too bad it's completely abscent from the game. Is this from the same guy who thinks bottom of blight town is great swamp actually?

>>718047773 (OP)
i think it was going to be a kingsfield game and but dark souls kept selling like hotcakes so they had to take what they had and turn it into ds2

I enjoyed the game otherwise though im recalling as to how many times i had to use poison arrows to get past annoying sections

>>718059837
You posted exactly what I said
>>Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity. And men assumed a fleeting form.
That's headcanon fanfiction TRASH.
As another anon pointed out, a huge portion of Dark Souls story is about how Gwyn purposefully linked the Flame to Humanity through the Darksign.
No, humanity's current form is not the form of hollows.
That's what happens when any individual slowly loses his soul, not just humans.
The process happens to humans for what Gwyn. Dark Souls 2 doesn't understand Dark Souls lore so it is based on ignorance and retcons the very fundamental aspect of Dark Souls lore

>>718059947
>Too bad it's completely abscent from the game.
Learn to spell, pajeet
And no it's not. It's all in game
>Some good lore
Yes it was written by Miyazaki, thank God he saved the Dark Souls duology

>>718060062
That quote is literally stating that the true form isn't hollows, it's blatantly agreeing with you and using the exact same story beat that you're falsely claiming isn't present. Not only did you not play DS2, you can't even read.

>>718060039
Having to use different skills/spells/items in order to solve a problem in an action RPG? This is unheard of!

>>718060114
nah fuck miyazaki for making dark souls 1 bloodborne reskin, bet whatever they were cooking before with pontiff being final boss lord of dark was fire. It's not like we have a history of Miyazaki deleting every single fire piece of lore from his games. Oh wait, we do have cut Oscar questline, cut Kalle quest line, cut Miquella content and god knows what else he had ruined with his """storytelling""""

>>718059736
>as Dark Souls 2 doesn't understand that Gwyn caused the Curse of the Undead, and rather believes that is innate of every human
1. Gwyn establishing the curse wasn't established until DS3
2. It DOES apply to all mankind
>and rather believes that is innate of every human and hollows the true form with the current one a fleeting facade.
DS3 also leans into this idea with humans transforming into abominations and "dragons", and in the londor ending where you gain the capacity to absorb the first flame by maxing out your hollowness
>Lol funny way of saying nothing happens in 2
I mean yeah nothing of cosmic significance happens in 2.
>that was the Walk Away ending that already existed.
No it didn't. Before scholar you just sit in the chair the end.
>the Profaned Flame is an unending flame created from the Abyss, with the witches that created it turning into creatures resembling the Hand of Manus and Sulyvahn, having Imbued himself with it, having the ability to turn into pure roots of darkness while keeping his sanity. Because when the curse is imbued in the Flame, then it becomes a blessing
This is not stated anywhere
>This is why the pilgims are on a martyrdom to accumulate curse and provide the 6 sigils to seal the uncontrollable Profaned Flame.
No, the pilgrims are traveling to lothric castle because they are drawn to the first flame.

>>718047773 (OP)
That it and DS1 are the only ones worth playing

>>718059856
DS1 dark end implies nobody links it and the age of dark begins soon after. Obviously that didn't happen.

>>718060039
>spoiler
That would be in line with what Demon's Souls was. I'm sure one could find out real quick if they checked out the credits to see if the people who worked on Dark Souls 2 were also ones who had worked on Demon's Souls before Miyazaki took over.

>>718047773 (OP)
The worst one in the series, but still enjoyable.

>>718059947
>profaned flame being relevant at all and in any way being connected to londor is some good lore
The Profaned Flame burns everything but human flesh and the Profaned Coal allows hollow infusions

>>718060250
>pontiff being final boss lord of dark
This never existed
>Oh wait, we do have cut Oscar questline, cut Kalle quest line, cut Miquella content and god knows what else he had ruined with his """storytelling""""
None of those games changed story in any way
The lore of Dark Souls 3 is excellent

>>718047773 (OP)
It's the only Souls game I never replayed.

>>718059340
I never said anything about fanfiction. You must be thinking of a different anon.

>>718060218
>Having to use different skills/spells/items in order to solve a problem in an action RPG? This is unheard of!

come on dont be pedantic. I did not say it whether it was good or bad to use it, i just recall overusing the arrows

>>718060361
this is some next gen level cope, especially considering profaned flame is merely just a repeat of Izalith plotline. Another fake flame that doesn't help anyone and will fade.On top of it literally burning entire capital civilization as fuel, which is why Yorm didn't want to link the flame again.

>>718047773 (OP)
Still hate it. Feels bad to play. Other than Majula it also looks ugly. Tried replaying it once, and ended up having less fun than I had the first time.
I'll never understand the love for this game but if you do I respect your opinion.

>>718047773 (OP)
The game released on ps3 like 5-6 days before release and the hype was through the roof
Game was pretty decent but by shrine of amana the game had taken a total nose dive. PvP especially at the fire keep thing with the bell covenant was peak stuff

>>718060259
>Gwyn establishing the curse wasn't established until DS3
Yes it was, the curse of the undead appeared only after the first linking, as consequence of the souls of humans slowly fading with the fire. The Way of the White specifically devised this with Rite of Kindling
>It DOES apply to all mankind
Which is bound to the flame. Hollowing also happens to every creature that is, like humans, ARTIFICIALLY deprives of their souls, like Undead Dragons and Gwyn himself.
>DS3 also leans into this idea with humans transforming into abominations and "dragons",
No, it leans into the established Dark Souls lore that people can mutate either due to the influence and worship of divine elements or be transformed with sorcery, which is the study and manipulation of souls. Nothing to do with the headcanon nonsense of Dark Souls 2
>This is not stated anywhere
It is
>No, the pilgrims are traveling to lothric castle because they are drawn to the first flame.
Nope, they are on a travel of atonement, meant to die so that the curse they accumulate with their death is then carried over for the Dark Lord to claim in the next era. This is why they have the same bloated backs and chained shells to contain the overflowing build up of curse, same shells the Clerics also use in the Ringed City and Lothric. And this is why I'm an authority on lore and you aren't. Because I actually read and pay attention and you don't

>>718059212
We can agree to disagree then. Because even beyond Aldia, the starting cutscene's dillemma presents the curse as some deteriorating illness that has to be stopped, one that's actively eroding the protag's memories and sense of self. It somehow acts like this is something that needs to be dealt with, rather than being a part of the common struggle of man in the world of Dark Souls. It's why figuring out Gwyn's propaganda was such a game changer in the first place, because it addresses something that was taken for granted in the world's fantasy setting. Contrast that to DS2's presentation of the curse as if it's some deteriorating plague or affliction.

Even looking at the protagonist monikers you can see how DS2 is still stuck with grappling the first part of the premise instead of moving past it. Where being a Chosen Undead is emphasizes a story of prophecy and how humanity is fed into a cycle of propaganda, being a Bearer of the Curse is just literally being human as they're known in the DS world.

>>718060185
Shut up NIGGER
>Young Hollow. How you grapple, without falter, with this dreadfully twisted world.
Peace grants men the illusion of life.
>Shackled by falsehoods, they yearn for love, unaware of its grand illusion.
>Until, the curse touches their flesh. We are bound by this yoke.
>As true as the Dark that churns within men.
B team literally believes humans are supposed to be beef jerky. Yes they are retarded and so are you.

>>718060930
Bruh you literally go on the entire quest in DS1 to figure out the fate of the undead. Which one would assume is linked with healing that affliction. Exactly like ds2. And the first ending is healing that affliction...by your sacrifice, but still. The entire protagonist's driving goal behind both ds1 and ds2 is healing the curse. Mw unkindled is just fire junkie who wants warmth

>>718060525
>considering profaned flame is merely just a repeat of Izalith plotline
No it's not
>Another fake flame that doesn't help anyone and will fade
The game literally says it can't fade
And yes, it's imbued with curse and similar to how the player profaned the first flame in the usurpation ending
Retard

>>718061075
>And the first ending is healing that affliction...by your sacrifice, but still.
I don't think you actually understood what linking the flame does.
>The entire protagonist's driving goal behind both ds1 and ds2 is healing the curse
Not at all. In fact, the protag's quest is presented as you being emboldended as the designated chosen one to carry out the prophecy in DS1. DS2 presents no such narrative, instead focusing on the dillemma of the curse. You're conflating them as the same kind of story when they're not. DS2 even makes a point in humanity forgetting about Gwyn and the First Flame by that point in time.

>>718061108
yet it never uses the same name. It's usurp the flame ending, not profane the flame ending.

The game says it cannot fade... and the game also shows us shitload of people it killed. And the game also keeps telling us that any flame will fade.

Do you not realize what retarded storytelling it will be for it to exist a random ass infinite flame? That's like the shittiest fanfiction tier writing possible.

And i'm not even disagreeing it's abyssal, cause it is another fucking ds1 reference, but now instead of abyss surrouned by jerky corpses it's fire pot surrounded by them.

Jump through more hoops relating to japanese folklore and maybe i'll believe you. But so far you've provided zero evidence but your own headcannoning and fucking infusion

>>718060525
>Long ago, when Sulyvahn was yet a young sorcerer, he discovered the Profaned Capital and an unfading flame below a distant tundra of Irithyll, and a burning ambition took root within him.
The Profaned Capital decided to use as kindling for a new flame not humanity, but abyss. The result was an unfading wild flame.
When Yhorm linked the Fire the Dark turned even more violent and destroyed the city.
The Dark Lord needs seals to contain the Profaned Flame

Also the 4Kings are quite literally wannabe Sulyvahn that failed to remain sane and lost their minds after injecting humanity

>>718047773 (OP)
I like it. Lots of areas to explore. I played it after Dark Souls 3 though.

I won't say I saved the best for last but it was good. Extremely hard though. When the game says don't burn bonfire ascetics, it means it.

A lot of it got redone and done better in Shadow of the Erdtree in my opinion.

Pharros Lockstones make cool sounds when you use them. Bring back Pharros contraptions. Or don't. Just keep making games.

tl;dr - The gods frown on soul-scrimpers.

>>718061314
linking the flame unjerkies the people, which was the plan

>>718061330
>yet it never uses the same name.
Doesn't need to
>It's usurp the flame ending, not profane the flame ending.
By usurping it in your hollowed body with curses within you profane it
>The game says it cannot fade
Correct
>Do you not realize what retarded storytelling it will be for it to exist a random ass infinite flame?
It's not random. The game explains it

>>718047773 (OP)
I'm so happy I've never played it.

>>718061427
the game about letting old things die, having the main villain be the curse of stagnation, to end with a fucking unending source of life? Do you not comprehend how little it makes sense as a tale?

It's a masterpiece. Only mentally ill contrarians on /v/ who make critical critique their entire personality think otherwise.
>I-IT'S LE UNFINISHED! IT REUSES LE ASSETS! LE ORNSTEIN! LE, LE UGLY TEXTURES!
Wowzers. And this impacts gameplay how?

>>718047773 (OP)
i like them all equally

>>718061582
>The game about [HEADCANON]
lol ok retard

>>718060503
Should've just bought the poison mist and used pyromancy if you were using this much poison. Unless you're going PvP, then using posion arrows in combination with whips and poison mist is peak meme that will make many people cry.

This was the only game I had ever pre-ordered since i probably had over 1k hours on DS1. That day that i booted this game up was the most disappointing vidya experience in my life. I got about 3-4 hrs in before i put it back in its case and didnt finish it until about 6 months before the release of ds3.
The DLCs didnt save it either

>>718062640
then what it is about then? It's not like Miyazaki is subtle about creating the same fucking game about the same fucking point

>>718062640
All of your Londor and Profane Flame shit is already hectoliters of headcanon, don't complain when someone else does it too

replaying 3 right after 2 and while I do think 3 is overall better its making me wish they kept more mechanics from 2.

>>718062997
sorry, but game is wrong because it doesn't fit my headcanon about whatever theme the game should be about is not valid argument, try again
>>718062937
>then what it is about then?
Nothing. Miyazaki never makes games about narrative themes. People who try to see any kind of analogy are just retards that dont understand lore.
Yes there's a eternal flame because it makes sense within the metaphysics of the game, which is the only thing Miyazaki cares about

>>718061408
Until it starts fading again, at which point you have to sacrifice someone else. Only, the quantity and quality of souls in the world keeps growing lower as they get fed to the Flame.

>>718063485
then it's by definition can't have good story, retard, because stories are about things, which is how they resonate with people

Dark Souls 2 taught me women are evil and simp for them can and will ruin your life. THAT'S THE REAL CURSE! Now I'm a happy incel, thank you Dark Souls 2

>>718047773 (OP)
Still has the best PvP.

>>718063887
>all those shards of darkness turned into women
KEK, what did DS2 mean by this?

I've never been able to place why, and I've never heard anyone else address it, but something about DaS2 specifically makes it feel like I'm moving underwater. From walking, to attacking, there's this floaty weightlessness that I can't really articulate. Movement does get slower in relation to heavier weapons and such, but I still feel like I'm moving against a current for some reason.

>happy
>incel
Choose one and only one. Being an incel means that you're still letting women ruin your life, you're just even more of a bitter asshole about it and prone to making it everyone else's problem.

>>718064026
It's what people say when they talk about "floaty animations". Personally, i think your locked-on walking looks like constipated ice skating.

It's a slog.
I tried finishing it three times.
Started the dlc before the last boss of the main game, and between the fume knight wrecking my shit and the punishing run up to the "secret boss", which I already know is a reskin of one of my least favorite fights, it burned me out for other souls games.

>>718063485
>Yes there's a eternal flame because it makes sense within the metaphysics of the game
No it doesn't. It goes against all the metaphysics of the series and even of DS3 itself. You're told over and over and over that fire fades and has to be rekindled. DS3 bashes you over the head that the world is running out of ways to sustain it. The closest the series has to an eternal flame is Chaos but Chaos is burned out in DS3.

The worst one

>coolest area with the most dogshit gameplay

Tho that sums up a LOT lf DS2

>>718061353
Also the enemy designs are nuts
In Harvest Valley there's a goblin riding an ogre

Dark Souls 2 is the contrarian choice for best Souls game so it's no surprise faggots on this board suck it off so much.

>>718050857
>Maybe SOTFS fixes the game
It doesn't. I tried playing that last year. Worse than DS3 and I really don't like DS3.

>>718060062
you don't understand DS2 lore and get mad about it lmao
DS3fags are truly something else

>>718064793
Forced ogre labor

>>718059947
he's the resident from lore schizo who apparently has all this shit figured out under his belt (even if it contradicts facts stated in the games)

>>718060361
>everything but human flesh
literally the opposite, retard

>>718065238
DS2 was basically a failed project, Sonic 06 tier, the director Shibuya was fired, and the replacement director Tanimura went on to work on DS3 and ER

it's from software's best work after bloodborne

>>718047773 (OP)
Majula is comfy.

>>718063805
>muh le hecking themes
Kek, retarded secondary

>>718065254
Lol>>718060956
>Ds2fags are now contradicting ds2 lore to try and salvage its reputation

>>718064395
>No it doesn't
Yes it does
>It goes against all the metaphysics of the series
No it doesn't. The Abyss defies casuality, you would know if you played AotA
>that fire fades
Not the Profaned Flame
You wer wrong. The game says you are wrong
Cope about it

>>718060956
It's actually so on point, on a metanarrative perspective, for Dark Souls 2 to not understand the original game.
Aldia goes on and on about the undead curse despite not understanding how it works much like Tanimura didn't understand the game Dark Souls

>>718064395
>You're told over and over and over that fire fades
You are also told that the Profaned flame is undying and that's a major plotpoint about the Usurpation of Flame.
There's no arguing against the game being explicit about it
>>718062997
He is 100% correct
>>718065471
I mean nothing but. Either way the game makes it clear how the Profaned Flame is connected to the curse and the curse is accumulated by the player for the usurpation exactly because the First Flame becomes profane in that ending

best fashion, best PvP, most funny builds, best waifus, power stance. The endless streaming of whining from MiHACKzaki fanboys has long outlived its welcome though

>>718047773 (OP)
It sucks the moment you leave Majula
Insane, it's like they spent the whole 5 years of development on the hub

>>718064395
The Profaned Flame isn't the First Flame, retard
It's also actually cold, the Profaned Coal is crystallized and Irithyll is covered in cold ashes

the closest we'll get to a dark souls MMO (that's worth playing, not slop).

>>718067934
Ironic because Elden Ring was kinda supposed to be that. From everything I read and the trailers it looked like this massive world adventure with heavy co-op and quests everywhere (idk, I imagined it that way).

But it wasn't that, and the world is big yeah but the areas aren't different enough.

>>718047773 (OP)
it was pretty good

>>718047773 (OP)
My favorite FromSoft game. Other than the lighting downgrade it's literally perfect

Dark Souls 2 made a massive concession to having good design with it's mechanic where enemies don't re-spawn after you kill them a certain amount of times.
If a certain part of the game is too hard, no problem, just clear it like graindan bot until the enemies are permanently dead.
You can call me a shitter, but this wasn't a problem for me in any other souls game.
And even if I was a shitter, I was robbed of the opportunity to beat the level with all it's enemies by having them disappear.

>>718047773 (OP)
It was a disappointing release if you followed the hype, notorious downgrade from what was shown in development.
It was still the only Souls game in the world other than DeS and DS, at the time. People act like they had the benefit of hindsight and knew what Bloodborne and DS3 would be like, but they were naively playing DS2 on its release and enjoying it like everybody else.

>>718061353
>>Pharros Lockstones make cool sounds when you use them.
wtf I just found this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGKvbfOkueo
Pharros Lockstones used to have different sound effects

Wasn't DS2 it the first game with a fake bonfire too?

>>718047773 (OP)
It was fun in co-op. I did most of my play through in co-op so maybe singleplsyer sucks. Regardless i think people complaining about gank squads are bitches. The story / lore isnt as compelling as the og. The npcs kinda look like theyre from a western rpg for some reason like fable or dragon age or something, they dont look like from npcs. Game feels like it goes on a little too long.

I prefer ds1, des, and bborne. I dont see myself replaying ds2 unless my friends ask me to replay it with them.

>>718047773 (OP)
I like it a lot more than I did the first 5 years but that's mostly because I like how slow it is compared to Ds3 and Elden Ring. I still think most of the issues I and others have with the game are valid, except ADP I think that's an overreaction from people that refused to adapt

>>718047773 (OP)
>Best multiplayer (co-op and PvP)
>worst PvE (but still good
Best Souls game I've ever played.

>>718048797
>>718049139
>>718055838
You are the type of fags who think Lies of P is good level design when it is just a bunch of fucking corridors, because you are not intelligent to actually understand what you are trudging through.

Dark Souls 2 will always be the retarded black sheep of the series

>>718072193
Brume Tower is literally a vertical fucking tower, how is it a bunch of corridors? Retard

>>718047879
You make a great case study for eugenics.

>>718068431
Having the enemies disapper is there to prevent faggots from farming souls endlessly ar the same location. It has nothing to do with difficulty.

>>718072389
It's a bunch of straight corridors separated by an elevator and that have a quick dead end
There's nothing good about Brume tower

Bloodborne > Sekiro > Elden Ring > DS1 > DS2 > DS3

>>718073076
Funny, because even without using ascetics you get to SL 140 before reaching Drangleic

>>718072272
It's the weird lovable uncle, the real black sheep is DS3 which is just BB 0.5. Fromsoft literally got away with stripping game mechanics from BB and adding in DS1 and 2 assets.

>>718047773 (OP)
Probably my favorite in the trilogy. Yeah it has shitty parts but for the most part I don't think they're as bad as many people say.

>>718073076
But it still does help people that are struggling that hard while not giving up

>>718047773 (OP)
The most replayable Souls game and mods make it so much better, but even without them it's the one I'd just pick up ando play at any moment without any prep time.
The bosses not being THAT hard is a bonus, they're about as hard as bosses from normal games, they might kill you some times but you're expected to win at some point and continue exploring another of the 50 levels ds2 has.
With DS3, BB or ER bosses I'm not sure you're expected to win by just te-attempting, they can be run-enders or force you to REALLY get good which I'm not always in the mood for.

I always equate dark souls 2 fans with hbomberguy fans, a far leftist fag who literally ran a charity event supporting trans kids getting surgeries.

Better than that new Libra fight I’ll tell you that.

>>718047773 (OP)
I can appreciate it trying to introduce new ideas at least, and how they tried to introduce background effects that drastically alter the entire map and boss arenas.
Final ranking
Ds1>Ds2>DeS>>>>Ds3

>>718047773 (OP)
Replayed it recently and throughly enjoyed it. Lots of fun weapons.
The game is big and feels like a proper action adventure experience. It also looked and ran great with just vanilla on PC.

What's with DS3 having literally less than 1/4 the blood stains/messages of DS2 even though it still has ~3 times as many players daily?

>>718047773 (OP)
>Made invading with red orb completely pointless
>Made invasion ruleset 10 times worse
>Messed with heals and forced invaders to clutch on spells
I'm so fucking glad this game crashed and burned