Thread 718938294

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strategy/dawn-of-war-4-developer-king-art-knows-what-you-all-really-want-overwhelmingly-its-singleplayer-content-and-the-campaign/

>"We are known for making narrative-driven games, and the campaign for Iron Harvest was very well received. So for us, this was super clear: campaigns will be one of the big pillars for the game."

>"We had this idea, instead of just having a Space Marine campaign, or maybe one campaign where everybody has some little bits and pieces, let's actually have a big campaign for each of the four factions. And that is already, of course, a lot of work, but then we said, OK, can we maybe even make the individual campaigns dynamic? And can we have optional missions, and can we make sure that the decisions that players make matter? And now we have these four beefy campaigns plus the tutorial."

>"That's definitely where we're putting most of our focus for this title," says senior game designer Elliott Verbiest.

>"But of course we are going to have multiplayer modes for people who want to play with their friends or against other players. But as we saw in both feedback from the community as well as what we remember, what we look most fondly back on when playing RTS games when we were all younger, or how that shaped our tastes in the genre, the singleplayer campaigns were one of the things that stuck the longest with us."

>>718938294 (OP)
>single-player

it's 2025. no one wants single player slop. coop, PvP, and PvE is what gamers want

>>718938294 (OP)
Based, finally someone says the truth.
>>718938453
Go away retard

>>718938453
Baldur's Gate 3
Expedition 33

>the allure of starcraft level esports is powerful
to fucking who?

>>718938294 (OP)
He's right, glad he get it. Multiplayer is fuckind retarded nowadays. Especially with all this drm and match making bullshit. A good single player mode or campaign is all you need to the dopamine pumping.

>>718938294 (OP)
no, what we want is dateable tau
also wasn't iron harvest kinda bad?

>>718938762
pfft hahahhahaha

>>718938453
Single digit IQ take.

>>718939786
the truth hurts, dunnit?

>>718938294 (OP)
Game still looks too much like DOW3 for my liking. I don't like the Total War unitframes at the bottom too.

>>718938453
The campaign will have coop
best of both worlds

>>718938829
gooks

>>718938453
the most wishlisted game of all time on Steam is a singleplayer game

>>718940054
That would be nice if it were ever confirmed when the campaign is finished, but unfortunately all we have according to early testers are "cooperative skirmish".

>>718938829
Retards, but the main people that matter
>suits see main player in current shrunken A+ rts market, it's sc2 with the esports, surely making sc2 esports is the way to profit
>devs may be starcraft fans, or may similarly default to following starcraft's lead as it's big, but also if they want advice they're likely to go to...
>public rts commentators & 'experts', who get a lot of media from esports, but also are people who like the current rts games which are failing to find a larger audience, so they will guide the devs into catering to themselves and making a game that will also not find a larger audience

>>718940335
>wishlisted

lol, lmao even

>>718938829
To publishers who want to monetize it, obviously

>>718938294 (OP)
all you need is last stand

multiplayer rts is an extreme niche

>>718940036
We're not talking about slop of the month stuff, we're talking niche "no one fucking cares" stuff that only neckbeards and men that paint their nails care about. Making the latter more appealing to become like the former is a fools errand as Relic has painfully learned.

>>718938294 (OP)
>yeah, you guys are dumbasses that dont really want to learn or get better at game, you just want an interactive movie, huh? eat up your slop, piggies
We're going back to the casual retard xbox dudebro era gain.

>>718938294 (OP)
People want Dawn of War 1 2.0.
Some freaks want an actual sequel to Dawn of War 2 but they don't count.

>>718938294 (OP)
Good for them going this route, hope it works out for them. It seems like everyone tries to go for the competitive route, but the problem is that RTS is already a pretty niche genre and there are only going to be a few games which get serious competitive scenes. If you have a great singleplayer mode then at least you'll be able to pick up players who are interested in that stuff, rather than trying to dethrone Starcraft or whatever.

>>718938762
>Baldur's Gate 3
co-op game first, solo second

>>718941167
DoW 2 2.0 would make a good Kill Team game.

>>718940983
None of the games in the other Anon's pic are slop of the month. They might be sloppy, but they're actually popular.

>>718941167
The actual DOW2 campaign was fun.

>>718941315
The point still stands. This is a 40k RTS, it will never be as popular for many reasons. Making it popular is not the point, even GW knows this. Arguing it should be more appealing to be popular is a smooth-brain argument that fundamentally does not understand that this franchise and genre is not for them.

>>718938294 (OP)
Sounds good, but it's still weird that there won't be playable Chaos or Eldars, when they were a staple for DoW since the first one. Interesting to see admech in RTS.

>>718942295
I've got zero interest in necrons or admech. Would've much rather had chaos or eldar to play in a campaign.

Also for some reason they set the game on Kronus but there's no mention of the Tau, when it was a Tau controlled world in Dark Crusade.

>>718942612
Blood Ravens canonically won Dark Crusade so its not difficult to imagine that the Tau evacuated.

>>718938453
what makes games legendary IS singleplayer, what keeps them afloat is multi. look at gta 5, everyone says the story is really good, but it wouldnt be nearly as succesful for as long without gta online

>>718942753
and it's not difficult to imagine that Kronus was retaken in their asspull sphere expansions.

>>718942753
>>718942903
Also the Blood Ravens immediately lost like 3-4 companies worth of Marines in Soulstorm which they canonically lost then went through all the shit in DOW2, it's very unlikely Kronus wouldn't've been recaptured by the Tau.

>>718942753
And Orks won in Kaurava, iirc.
With Ravens' own system being fucked after DoW2 it's plausible that they went back to one of their conquered worlds.
Also, did they show Cyrus being killed in that DoW4 trailer?

Honestly after going back and replaying DOW1 recently, it definitely had more charm than depth, almost every match ends with giant murderblobs instead of complex clever strategies. I'd say DOW2 had better gameplay overall(in multiplayer/skirmish).

What I really want is DOW2's gameplay with DOW1's army sizes and base building. Unfortunately it seems like DOW4 is going for even larger armies than 1, so murderblobbing is probably gonna be even more of a problem.

>>718938294 (OP)
He's right. The gamers want single player modes. That's why dawn of war IV's campaign will be rogue like to keep people engaged

>>718938294 (OP)
>retarded corporate niggercattle chasing quotas
Holy shit. Just copy paste the original DoW series, update the graphics and the physics, optimize the game and expand the scale of engagement like all fan-favorite mods do (titans, additional factions and so on) and expand the campaign in the spirit of Gothic Armada. The current DoW2 should have been released as standalone under another title, DoW3 should never have been developed and any proper continuation of the series could have printed money indefinitely.

>>718943074
That's just to build up his life saving operation to become a primaris

>>718941380
Yeah, skirmish/multiplayer wasn't very good without extensive modding but the odd ARPG-RTS hybrid they went for with the campaigns was genuinely really fun and the whole experience was really well put together on pretty much every level.

>>718941231
completely untrue and ridiculous post

>>718943185
The whole rubicon surgery being x% deadly is such grimderp at this point.

>>718938453
FUCK YOU
I CAST "PROSTATE CANCER" ON YOU

>>718938294 (OP)
If they are making a Dark Crusade on steroids then i am all for it

>>718943209
>the odd ARPG-RTS hybrid they went for with the campaigns was genuinely really fun and the whole experience was really well put together on pretty much every level.
Yeah, I loved it. It even had co-op too.

I really don't understand why Relic had to reinvent the wheel every time they make sequels.

>>718938453
die

>>718943264
It was pointless from the start, it was always extremely obvious that the supposedly extremely deadly surgery was never going to kill even one single named character so it never had any weight to it at all.

>>718943435
You know they aren't gonna be capable of doing that and making it work.

>>718938453
Go play your PVP Esport garbage

>>718941167
Came here to say I wished they would make another one like DoW2, but I know they won't. The rts/rpg sort of spin it had was just really unique and a lot of fun. Way more fun than starcraft apm minmaxy bullshit. Not that 1 was like that either, but it definitely leaned in that direction

>>718941315
>but they're actually popular.
Among whomst?
I had never meet a single individual IRL or on the internet who bought a single sport sim game.
These are not even humans.

I will buy the game and all the dlc as long as it isn't chaos. Fuck chaos. Fuck you.

>>718938453
Single player is literally PvE.

>>718943771
DOW2 also felt more true to the universe than the other games in terms of the scale. Nobody wants to see marines dying in droves.

>>718943771
I play DOW2 retribution mod, 3v3 is very fun even for a noob players.

>>718938294 (OP)
>play DOW1 campaign
>pretty fun, well made missions that introduce new units to you
>surprisingly good story, good voice actors like gabriel

>play winter assault
>awful mission design, no introduction.
>annoying objectives that aren't explained at all
>awful voice acting chaos guy that just screams in your ear non-stop while you try to lure back fragile guardsmen you must mind control and escort back to your base over and over again

god damn what happened? are the rest of the campaigns as bad as this?

>>718943910
I get that marines are supposed to be superhuman, rare soldiers and each death should be significant. however I also know that the horus heresy saw thousands of marines slamming into each other and killing each other off in droves

>>718944049
Dark Crusade is peak DoW single player
Soulstorm doubles down on the retardation

>>718944049
Dark Crusade is better. It's usually what people are nostalgic for when they talk about 1 being so much better than 2.

>>718944143
Ya, but that was THE heresy and the whole imputus for the grimdark setting, of course it would have marines dying in apocolyptic numbers. There were also billions(?) of them at the time

>>718943659
Is this character supposed to be Pinocchio like or something?

>>718943264
You know in anime where a character gets a special move that takes off X% of his life force to use, and yet it never actually makes him any weaker? Basically the same thing here.

>>718944143
You can't really compare the scale of 30k to 40k. There's only roughly 1000 chapters which at full (legal) strength only have 1000 marines.

Marines were also less "trained" in 30k than 40k. I think a full chapter of 40k Marines would wipe the floor with a chapter strength equivalent force of 30k marines, which happens all the time, since CSM get their ass beat when going up against loyalists.

>>718944303
>There were also billions(?) of them at the time
nah, there were only hundreds of thousands even in the largest legions, far fewer in the smaller ones. no more than a few million marines total.

>>718940043
DoW 3 wasn’t that bad

>>718944148
>>718944170
Does Dark Crusade have actual narrative missions? I thought it was the big campaign map with glorified skirmish matches in between

>>718944609
It felt like 40k shovelware with a recognizable brand/company name on it that people trusted up until that point.

Even COH2 which was rushed while THQ was going under was still a good game. No idea what Relic was smoking when they made 3.

>>718944715
Yes. Each faction gets a mini campaign of them killing the other faction's HQs and winning the planet.

>Don't include iconic factions like CSM and Eldar
>Include Admech which nobody gives a fuck about
WHY

People here actually praising skirmish galore of a campaign of Dark Crusade and Soulstorm? Peak singleplayer? It should be just a singleplayer mode alongside campaign, last stand and skirmish.
>>718944715
Narrative goes through commanders dialogue in stronghold missions, stronghold debriefing and province descriptions. It's nice to find some references to Dark Crusade text boxes in DoW2.

>>718938453
10/10 bait

>>718944715
Not really, no. The only actual narrative missions you get are when you attack into the final stronghold of any enemy faction.
It's still an enjoyable campaign to me

>>718944840
I give a fuck about admech. I dont like their stupid new Davinci designs though

>>718944715
It has intro for each faction, special map+cutscenes for destroying their stronghold HQ and outro. Multiply that by seven for all the factions.

>>718944840
>Eldar
>Iconic
it's for the better.... No CSM or IG sucks.
>Admech which nobody gives a fuck about
Some people do.

>>718938294 (OP)
Multiplayer and PvP is what keeps games alive.

>>718944715
Dark Crusade has a Risk style campaign map with a certain number of territories to capture, with each faction having a stronghold that has a scripted DOW1 style mission play out when you attack it.

There's also special provinces you can capture that give special bonuses like being able to attack twice in one turn, starting with a surplus of requisition or being able to construct buildings before launching the mission.

The stronghold missions have some of the most memorable voice acting in the series, each are different for each faction. If you beat the campaign as Space Marines you'll want to see what those same missions were like as Orks or Eldar and see how the faction leaders interact with yours.

I still recommend sousltorm even though it was widely hated at the time. It's not as bad as people make it out to be, it just doesn't have the charm of Dark Crusade's voice acting.

>>718944734
>DoW 3 is bad, but can't offer up an argument
Can you let me know which youtuber you got that opinion from?

>>718943910
Yeah but you still had missions where entire companies of Marines would die and you'd just teleport in reinforcements.

>>718945034
Dawn of war 1 established Space Marines, Chaos, Orks and Eldar as the big four important factions

>>718938453
this man's brain collapsed on itself

>>718944840
You do realize that this has been a thing in 40k games for forever right?
>Don't announce Chaos
>ZOINK! Chaos was the hidden baddie all along!
As for Eldar, Taldeer getting raped and murdered on Kronus is canon. Why would they go back?

>>718945135
Dawn of War just digitised what already existed.

I want Titans.

>>718945054
DOW3 WAS bad dude. Every single multiplayer match had the exact same commanders picked. The ramping up of resources wasn't a good catchup mechanic for people who lost the early or mid game. I didn't like the upgrade system at all or how disposable squads felt.

I don't even remember the campaign's story.

>>718945035
There are large communities still playing games made before the internet was even common. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I am saying that doesn't have anything to do with what makes a game good

I hope that they make some more interesting ultimate unit for Ravens and not just another shitty Land Raider.

>>718945039
The problem of Soulstorm was the game-crashing bugs and the shitty implementation of fliers that made them look ridiculous while also making them either OP or unusable.

>>718945272
The game maxes out at Knights per the early previews.

>>718945412
So, DoW3 again?

>>718945039
>I still recommend sousltorm
I wouldn't.
>awful take and hold missions for the gates
>9 races is a slog to get through since AI is very passive and prefers to turtle
>the Kaurava III
>fliers
DE and SoB just not worth it since they don't feel like fleshed out additions. Especially DE since it was early days for them.

>>718940036
this only proves the point that the target audience is people too retarded to pirate ... those & consolefags, who at least some excuse.

>>718943790
Sports games are the most normalfag genre. That's a self-report on your part.

>>718944049
Winter Assault was more fun than Vanilla, imo.
Especially the Order campaign.

>>718943264
>>718943567
I still want some chaplain's bio to casually end like "He went for a primarysue surgery but died because he was too weak and gay"

>>718938294 (OP)
>giving us what we asked for for years instead of chasing esports and MOBA audiences
Based now watch them fail financially because nobody puts their money where their mouth is

>>718945865
>>718945865
Idk, I liked the strongholds in Soulstorm. Some of them were really fun to cheese like the Dark Eldar one where you amass a bunch of anti-vehicle units/turrets and pop Vect's dias as soon as he does his first raid on your base and you just end the mission right there.

Devs used to deliver both back in the day you know

>>718946228
>normalfag
There are no normal people anymore. Everyone want's something fresh and edgy.

>>718938294 (OP)
But the gameplay and the fans of pvp are already set up ffs they just have to add some micro to the pvp
Fuck

>>718938294 (OP)
>single player content and campaign
thank god, I skipped on DoW3 because everyone said the campaign was basically non-existent

>>718944474
30k marines are literally chaos space marines tho

>>718938294 (OP)
>"We know what you want"
>Makes DoW2 again.
Somehow, I think he could've fact checked that statement.

>>718945054
awful bait. DOW3 is universally agreed upon to be awful.

>the good
audio is good. some of the units have interesting concepts. orks have great presentation

>the bad
literally everything else

>>718947876
DOW2 was based. I'm sorry your micro is shit
>>718947810
no there was a campaign and it was awful in every aspect

>>718941167
This, its all they need to make is a game with 1:1 feature parity with DoW 1 and it'll sell like mad but nooooooo can't have that can't make good things

>>718938294 (OP)
They're absolutely right, that's why Total War warhammer thrives, you can just play the campaign as many times as you want and the replayability is insane.
PvP should be a side mode for RTS, not the main dish.

>>718941231
It's a dating sim

>>718947842
and CSMs get their asses beat routinely by their loyalist counterparts outside of Black Crusades.

>>718948493
Warhammer 40kmdating sim when?

>>718940563
It's funny that most people who actually enjoy vidya can point this out in a heartbeat yet it took almost a decade of flops for devs to learn their lesson.

I learned that the "experts" are almost always ordinary retards with a chip on their shoulder and a LOT of time spent on one thing they are interested in but that doesn't mean that they actually understand anything about it or that they will tell the truth about it. MMOs thought me that since I used to spend every weekend between 2007-2012 raiding in WoW with the "hardcore" crowd that only cared about watching numbers grow instead of having fun and I wish I could have all that wasted time back, not the time I spent actually having fun in WoW, but the time I spent with the autistic retards that wanted people to treat the game like a fucking job because they never actually had fun playing it and just used it as an escape from their own shitty reality.

>>718947876
>>Makes DoW2 again.
I wish. This looks like DOW3.5.

>dawn of war 4
FUCKING WHAT?

>>718941167
I only had an ancient toaster at the time so I didn't follow DoW2's development, how did Relic justify switching from real-time strategy to real-time tactics? Was it basically "Company of Heroes made bank, so get fucked"?

>>718938294 (OP)
>campaign
Yes
>single-player
Man I dunno, if there isn't a campaign co-op like Total Warhammer III I'm not interested.

>>718949234
DOW1 had gotten 3 expansions by that point so they probably wanted to try something different

>>718938294 (OP)
Based, focusing on multiplayer/e-sports is the best way to ensure that your game will end up as an absolute flop. Focus on campaign and mod support and if the game is good enough, people will play multiplayer.

>>718949234
Relic was the Company of Heroes developer by the late 2000s. It was surprisingly successful back then.
Also, Dawn of War 1 development was always messy. Especially the post launch support.

>>718938294 (OP)
please god just let chaos not be undivided or nothing but nurgle

>>718949234
They tried doing something different every game. Remember that DoW 1 was pretty much unique in the rts genre with the way it handled things, only CoH was like it (go figure) and both were highly successful. DoW2 was good too, they were just pretty different games

>>718949874
Homeworld 2 was also pretty different from Homeworld 1. Relic didn't like rehashing the same thing over.

They should've done something more with The Last Stand gameplay mode they had in DOW2.

>>718945524
How would you even scale the bigger titans when they're the size of the maps?

Unfathomably based. RTS campaigns with metaprogression are the top gaming experiences. Sc2, dawn of war 1/2, wc3. Yes yes yes

So is it gonna be good? I loved DoW1 and DoW2 original. Expansion was mid and everything after that was unfun cashgrab. Oh and I never play multiplayer.

>>718949435
co op campaign has been confirmed

>>718949817
devs have said they wanted the factions to have unique playstyles from each other. which is good. chaos will probably be undivided BUT their gameplay revolves around worshipping a chaos god of your choice, transforming your army from undivided into tzeentch, nurgle whatever. chaos marines become rubric marines, plague marines, etc. choosing your god unlocks daemons you can summon.


that's what I'd do anyway.

>>718950652
>So is it gonna be good?
The Dev team made Iron Harvest and bunch of mobile games. I don't think odds are that great. All we can see art-direction is godawful and GW meddling. Which not are good signs. So just wait for the actuall thing.

>>718950652
Signs point to maybe. It's not a total fuck up like 3 and they are claiming it is pulling inspiration from 1 more than any of them but only time will tell. What we know is
>Squads have cap and reinforce like DoW1, no need for checkpoints or supply trucks like in DoW2
>Every faction has their own resources and ways to make them. Space Marines still use requisiton and power, but don't build generators anymore and have to go capture places to build power generators on the map
>Necrons use neither Requisiton nor Power, they somehow supply their own resources from their bases like in DoW1. They can turtle and get resources no matter how barren the map, and you will need to dive their bases to keep them in check in multiplayer
>Several DoW2 mechanics exist. Cover is closer to DoW2, units have a retreat option like in DoW2, when you select upgrades for a squad it outfits X many units with the selected weapon instead of doing it 1 at a time like in DoW1, etc
>It does pull in the DoW2/3 mechanic of faction wide powers with cooldowns. Space Marines can upgrade a target allied squad with veterancy to make them more powerful, call in air raid strikes or orbital bombardments.
So it seems like a mixed bag so far but nothing they've done seems terrible. Gotta wait and see how fun it is to actually play, because DoW3's biggest sin was being a fucking boring slog while 1 and 2 were actually fun to play.

>>718951197
>co op campaign has been confirmed
Based and co-op pilled. Purchase secured.

>>718940043
>>718944609
1 > 3 > 2
It is what it is.

>>718951519
Not even the biggest DOW2 haters would agree with that.

>>718941167
I want dawn of war one mated with company of heroes. Large unit counts but that sweet tactical gameplay

>>718951846
DoW2 not only deviated conpletely from what made 1 great, it is also a really fucking boring and linear snoozefest.
One has to be a like slow in the head to enjoy that shit.
3 wasn't that bad.

>>718938453
Kill all zoomers

>>718952037
DOW2's (Elitemod) multiplayer scene is still alive and thriving. DOW3's whole thing was to be a multiplayer focused game with campaign slapped on and nobody liked either mode

>>718939637
>expecting a single player game to retain constant playerbase throughout 6 months.
Do you expect people who saw a good movie to keep watching it over and over for 6 month period?

>>718952471
The only thing that matters in a RTS is campaign mode, buiding a cool base and an aesthetic army.
Pandering to gookclikin' retards is what killed the genre.

>>718952658
>Pandering to gookclikin' retards is what killed the genre.
But enough about DOW3

>>718952534
I went to watch Dark Knight three more times. Mostly because movie tickets were really cheap in my shithole back then though.

>>718952773
>enough about DOW3
Exactly. They should have focused solely on single player mode, because it was decent and much better than whatever 2 is.
Seems like they have corrected course though.

>>718945035
You can't keep a stillbrith alive. You comp fags have ruined enough developers by tricking them into thinking that you actually play games.

>>718938294 (OP)
Actually good news for once...

>>718938453
ZOG OFF HUMIE!

>>718954551
What does zion occupied government have to do with this?

>>718948516
fer sure, kharn gets beat by everyg spece mereine he cums across my maen

>>718941167
2 is better than 1.

>>718942612
>i have zero interest in something cool and new, i want the same reheated slop i already had
Admech are literally the most interesting faction in the setting, no one cares about god damn elves.

>>718956026
DA SMART DEALS OF DA OLD GITS

>>718957265
Go play Mechanicus then.

>>718938453
i want you to die, that's what an actual gamer wants.

>>718939637
dumb chartnigger

>>718938453
99% of RTS players prefer champagne, zoomers play parpnite online games

>>718938294 (OP)
>the allure of starcraft level esports is powerful

ah yes the game that blizzard abandoned lmao nice lure for gooks maybe

>>718938294 (OP)
im so glad rts games are making a soft comeback, been enjoying age of mythology retold

>>718958213
a nice lure to have your game be relevant for like 25 years straight

you cant just make something like that happen though

>>718949435
dumb frieren poster

>>718938294 (OP)
based. chasing eports has killed too many games