Thread 719155002

Isn't it funny how the games that get praised for having the best game design are almost always the really popular ones from well known brands

Even if those games have lesser known competitors who build upon the formula or replicate it perfectly, their reception always has caveats like "it doesn't *feel* right" or "the devs just don't *get* it" as if the brand is the magic ingredient that makes the games good

In every other medium and art form it's basically accepted that the popular stuff is slop and it's never brought up in serious discussions

>>719155002 (OP)
>Isn't it funny how the games that get praised for having the best game design are almost always the really popular ones from well known brands
Like I genuinely hope this is an actual thread and not some shitpost thing because I have wasted too much time.
The real answer is very simple and kinda depressing.
Journos and gamers don't have time to play all vidya that comes out, so most advertised and popular games become the topic for good game design. There are sometimes positives to it, because something like Dark Souls(before you start, I'm not fan of Souls games but the design is good at least in OG the amount I played) became more popular and showed that even bit "non-conventional" and "mainstream" games can be appreciated for their design...
...Buuuuut like with everything else when it comes to popularity, everyone started copying and wanting to be "the next x/y/z".
>In every other medium and art form it's basically accepted that the popular stuff is slop and it's never brought up in serious discussions
Because the second very depressing and sad reality is that video game industry was built first for entertainment and to *sell* something, not be art. Movies, books, etc. weren't made to make money first and foremost. I guess that is what drives the whole industry towards just making money, and the moment some good indie/AA game comes out everyone is shocked that you don't need AAA $300mil budget for a good game.
Excuse my MattPattiness, but Undertale is a good example for a simple game with solid design becoming popular and appreciated despite not being the most "game-y game" out there.

But otherwise the industry is stuck with jerking off popular series or at least brands that publish them. I don't want to be the typical /v/irgin and hate TLOU, but honestly if some random German studio made that game for PC only, no journo would give a single fuck about it. Like it would be "Writing and VA is good but gameplay leaves lot to desire 7/10" kind of review

>>719155851
Will add bit more because why not.
Undertale and games with "fandoms" benefits a lot from internet culture.
Internet existing during vidya industry being so young is good to keep in mind. For example if we want to consider "Trip to the Moon" that came out in 1902 as first proper movie. Imagine how long it took before we got *popular* and *mainstream* movies you could talk about with almost anyone and they both knew what it was and that they probably had seen it.
Meanwhile proper vidya industry started in 70s and 80s even if there were tennis for two etc. but that would be like saying some image slideshows are movies.
What I'm aiming at is that vidya industry is both super young but also tied into internet culture, so when a small game becomes a popular, it is everywhere from Youtube to Twitter to TikTok to Discord to /v/. Movies don't have same kind of following, maybe TV shows at best with Doctor Who fans etc. and GR15 of course.
Manga/anime is also a thing, but it is usually multi-medium industry and nippons do their thing bit different from west.

Internet, especially our current social media obsessed version has kinda killed everyone's attention span so better to throw popular things, talk about popular things, and promote popular things so you make money.
Your best bet is to find some """obscure""" Youtube channel who makes vidya about bit more obscure games and appreciate that. But no game journo either cares or have no monetary incentive to review obscure stuff.

I guess "gamers" aren't mature enough to be actually passionate about vidya. Hell, even /v/ constantly makes fun of "autists" who likes some games be it competitively or speedrunning or being part of some fandom to discuss it and it's characters. You can find your circles of course by buying the Mario clock and Hylian shield and Overwatch/Fortnite merch but by God the more you think about that being a requirement to be a vidya fan is kinda depressing.

Waste of time to write this much desu

>>719155002 (OP)
>In every other medium
We don't hear about theather plays competing with Shakespeare either if you don't look it up, it's always that one famous writer which the ((cabal)) decided to prop and as a result of decisions decided upon by the ((cabal)) the myth of the bestest screenplay writer is perpetuated as The Art and the myth builds upon itself, true or not (maybe it's true, but can we be certain?).

>>719155851
>>719156397
>his examples are souls and undertale

Legitimately the only games I could think of where this could be dubious are particular Nintendo games.
And that's because niggas have spent 30 years trying to have as much fun as you can with Sonic Adventure in SM64 and trying to rewrite gaming history to imply that the development of 3D platformers wasn't happening in tandem with it and accrediting it with every not shit 3D platformer that's released since.

>>719155851
>Movies, books, etc. weren't made to make money first and foremost

>>719156743
Souls kind of "hard games" weren't popular before DS1 became mainstream.
Undertale kind of indie games weren't that popular either. It launched the whole "Earthbound inspired indie game about depression" thing.
That is the biggest problem with vidya, the fact that these days people latch on anything that happens to be popular to make their own version. From indie side it's most likely because people use the format to tell their own story and ideas. On the mainstream side it's just money.
When DS1 came out, people wished there were "more games like it". Now people are tired of it. It has been same with mascot platformers and such as well in past.

>>719157052
If you unironically think that first books and movies were made to sell as much as possible to build up brands and franchises with merchandising as well as with hard study on market research, advertisement firms, and social engineering then you must be, no offense, bit silly.
Especially if you think oldest books and stories were written to make money.
The industry has changed of course these days(Marvel/DC/Disney/Dreamworks etc.) but still there is that long legacy appreciation of *good* movies without brand attachment, and that not everything needs to be a movie that sells more than the currently most popular movie.
Vidya industry on the other hand has been surrounded by market research, advertisement firms, and such from almost day one, at least from Atari if you want to be as generous as possible. And it has gotten worse and worse as the interactivity has been turned into a way to make money. DLC/Lootbox/Battlepass/MTX and different game versions. You didn't see that kind of stuff with Citizen Kane(that came around 40 years after "A Trip to the Moon") for example. That should be a good perspective on the age of films as a medium.
Meanwhile 40 years after Atari 2600 is 2016 when we had stuff like Overwatch(which is unplayable now) with it's lootboxes.

I hope that clears up what I mean.

>>719157978
You keep bringing up "popular", the whole point of the thread is that no one cared about those types of games UNTIL they became popular and got a newly-big brand attached to them, now people dismiss other soulslikes or Earthbound clones for "not feeling right", meaning that no one actually cared about their game design in the first place

>>719155851
>>719156397
>>719157978
your points are fair but Takorin's art is fucking disgusting

>>719155002 (OP)
Popularity bias isn't just some dumb herd behaviour. More people playing a game means more eyes on it, more people experiencing, analyzing, and critiquing it. Not every game wins the popularity contest, as much as we'd like to say that we all judge games on merit, and the best ones always rise to the top. Some games unfortunately go unnoticed undeservingly.

>In every other medium and art form it's basically accepted that the popular stuff is slop and it's never brought up in serious discussions
This is bullshit though. Only a snob or moron would tell you that Avengers Infnity War is a bad fil or slop because it was intended to be a summer blockbuster, not envelope-pushing "high art cinema".

Video games aren't "art" because they don't really concern themselves with a distinction between blockbusters and high art, and that makes the snobs seethe because they're not being represented.
This is just a Silksong bait thread isn't it?

>>719162091
>Only a snob or moron would tell you that Avengers Infnity War is a bad fil or slop because it was intended to be a summer blockbuster, not envelope-pushing "high art cinema".
The point is that it's a movie considered purely entertainment, you will never find it in a serious discussion about cinematography or storytelling in movies

Kids mostly play games because their friends play them. You can try to compare soccer to hockey objectively but the real reason people play one over the other is simply to have something to play.
Quality of the game is barely relevant.

>>719159358
>no one cared about those types of games UNTIL they became popular
This delves into circularity. Of course a thing isn't popular until it's popular and got known for being a thing. It's known, therefore it's popular (by definition). Have they as argued earned their fame since they were doing something unconventional first? In what sense is Undertale, the name of a game, a brand? If that's so you may call Hamlet the Hamlet brand, your movie the Movie brand, etc.

>>719163612
>This delves into circularity
It doesn't because having the best e.g. cinematography in movies doesn't translate into becoming a super popular movie

>>719159358
>meaning that no one actually cared about their game design in the first place
It could also mean that people don't like knock-offs. Nobody likes a shameless rip-off, it reeks of desperation and points to someone copying what works so they can make money, rather than making a video game because they're confident in their own idea / vision. People are oing to be biased and critical of games like that, it's not necessarily because they're not "popular thing".

Sems like you keep going back to this malcontent rage over popularity, and assume that people are dumb drones who just follow the herd. Popularity isn't a bad thing that needs to be fixed, and it's not the root of all of these problems you have with people. Popularity is a consequence, not a malevolent force.

>>719164270
>It could also mean that people don't like knock-offs
Then why list Undertale

>>719164054
You keep talking about Citizen Kane all the time and bring it up all the time despite saying it's ´´not a popular movie´´.

Its called marketing lil nigga

>>719159358
>the whole point of the thread is that no one cared about those types of games UNTIL they became popular and got a newly-big brand attached to them
Do you only care about games if they have brand on them and becomes popular?
If so, then fair enough. But the thing is that Dark Souls wasn't a big thing and people cared about it. Hell, FromSoftware wasn't a name you could ask on street and people knew. However people still liked and STILL likes Dark Souls even if the genre and mechanics are more popular. Just a "too much of good thing".
We can do a small thought experiment as well.
>There is a game that has good gameplay
>Some people like it
>They recommend it, but it doesn't get off
>Still considered a "hidden gem"
>But no eyes on it, no coverage, no praises, no popularity
Vs
>There is a game that has good gameplay
>Some people like it
>It becomes a hit
>Now everyone likes it and praises it
>Some devs copy said gameplay
>Now it is considered good game design and normal
When something becomes a hit, it gets more eyes + more people copy it. Gaming circles doesn't have the same artistic appreciation or "this isn't for everyone" thing. Everything tries to be as big of a hit as GTA V.

Another big thing that I didn't touch when it comes to brands, is that while you have your Hideos and Kojimas as names you recognize, you still know majority of games by their studios/publishers.
Compare that to some specific writer or movie director.
At best you get some specific indiedevs you know by name(Toby Fox) but that's that.
Video games are trapped with the brand thing because consoles are so popular. The whole industry is basically built around brands. What took movies to reach Star Wars kind of brand recognition in 70 years, Pokemon did in like 20 with vidya. Mario even quicker.
So of course everything rotates around brands and franchises. How often do you talk about game made by a specific director compared it being made by publisher/studio?

>>719164386
It's a well known movie but I doubt many people today have seen it compared to the blockbusters

>>719164347
Nta but what is Undertale a knock-off of? Earthbound would be quite a stretch as it's just base inspiration.
Would love to play the og one Toby copied.

>>719164883
The film is old, it's hard to compare to a film made today.

>>719164905
>it is not a knockoff because it is popular and a brand name
>the games that did the same to Undertale what Undertale did to Earthbound are knockoffs though, because they are not popular and not brand names

>>719155002 (OP)
Case in point: Breath of the Wild

>>719165358
The difference is directly copying the format. Undertale picked from games and media Toby liked. Undertale copies picked from Undertale.
But I get what you mean in the end, the line is just so hard to draw, and it still just empathizes the fact that in vidya industry mechanics are only praised when they become popular and talked about game critics and journos. Like do we need to talk about how ethical and intelligent game journalists and critics are?
But also the fact that 90% of people who plays games don't care about gameplay mechanics or games as anything but mild distraction and fun times. Of course that goes lower if you exclude all mobile/tablet gamers, but then you run to problem of consoles and suddenly we are stuck with Singleplayer PC games as desperate attempt to find REAL games and gamers.

But back to Undertale being a total Earthbound knock-off
Would be interested to know how Undertale is a knock-off of Earthbound other than being a (J?)RPG.

>>719166361
Bumping in hopes of anon responding.

>>719157978
The oldest books were to preserve information, and the oldest movies were made to visually create a story that would be impossible to do using traditional means. Neither medium is primarily used for these purposes anymore, and instead they exist to make money. If you're gonna use that logic, then video games should be in the same boat since at their core, it's an interactive experience that cannot be replicated anywhere else. Space War wasn't made for profit. Tetris sold a bunch but it's not because it was designed to sell, it was because it's an experience that cannot be had except through gaming, analog tetris simply wouldn't work.

>>719166361
>The difference is directly copying the format. Undertale picked from games and media Toby liked. Undertale copies picked from Undertale.
You're doing it again, there is no meaningful difference between Toby pilfering from Earthbound, Moon, Mario RPG, OFF, etc, and Everhood pilfering from Undertale, Yumme Nikki, Guitar Hero etc, but since one is mega popular and successful and one is only moderately successful, the first is seen as a genuine creative process while the latter is seen as a knockoff

>>719171530
>there is no meaningful difference between Toby pilfering from Earthbound, Moon, Mario RPG, OFF, etc, and Everhood pilfering from Undertale, Yumme Nikki, Guitar Hero etc
I didn't bring up Everhood a single time so I have no idea why you are insisting that I said it's a knock-off or even implied that it is. If I did please say where because I cannot remember nor didn't see it by rereading my posts.
I'm still waiting on how Undertale is Earthbound knock-off.
The whole "genre" of "Earthbound inspired indie about depression" just became popular with Undertale, that's the thing. Toby didn't see a new genre pop up and quickly used it as not only basis but main reason to make Undertale.
So please, tell me how Undertale is a Earthbound knock-off. You can use your own definitions if you want, I just want to know the reason and logic behind it.

I guess it might be sorted like this. Cave Story (peak; truly pushed the medium but not that *popular*) - Undertale (decent; alright title that existed and is popular but you wouldn't name it in the -proper- discussion for intellectuals) - Undertale derivatives (definite slop; no question of its nature as blockbuster)

>>719174214
The thing with Undertale is that it is an emotional and bit meta game without being ashamed of it being either, nor larping or relying to some other medium to tell it's story. That alone is an achievement in the sea of "story-heavy" games where the whole thing is basically an interactive movie without actual choices, usually slapped with the most basic gameplay to be "approachable". No, Undertale isn't some masterpiece that will never be topped, but it isn't just "average" or "decent" either. I think many people view the whole game through rapid fandoms and being oversold it. I feel bad for not mentioning Cave Story, so thank you for bringing it up for discussion, tho people are actually talking about vidya on this thread so I and maybe some other anons have to constantly bump it.
I have seen that many /v/irgins cannot help but view games through some kind of lens that has basically nothing to do with their actual opinion or preferences or the game itself. It might be just seeking for reasons to feel negative as it is quite addicting and feeding "intellectual" view of oneself, thinking they are better when they don't like "bad" games.

Anyway, even if this thread dies soon, I always take a sub-100 post thread with vidya discussion than 400+ post thread where 80% of posters are on pointless flamewar/falseflag/troll/shitpost streak for the sake of it.
Thanks for everyone who posted, I'm not the OP but the one who keeps spamming textwalls.

>>719175264
Undertale is a sardonic tumblr webcomic in game form so it's ashamed about itself by default, it's like that annoying kid in school who always made fun of other kids for even trying to do anything creative but never personally did anything for fear of being mocked

Sadly there's a ton of these kids so the game resonated with them like crazy

>>719155002 (OP)
Videogames are low income products just like TV or Movies so we're never getting past this hump as an art form.
All the discussion are monopolized by popular stuff because lil Bobby just wants a game to kill 20hrs in to distract himself from his life.

>>719155002 (OP)
Not really? Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath are still jacked off to this day

>>719176857
>sardonic tumblr webcomic in game form
How it is mocking others? At best you can argue it is bit too heavy handed with criticizing people who mindlessly grind and tries to kill everything, but it fits the world it is written in. I don't see how it is overly "cynical" or anything.
>it's like that annoying kid in school who always made fun of other kids for even trying to do anything creative but never personally did anything for fear of being mocked
Where on earth does it mock others nonstop or is afraid to be genuine? I'm bit confused if we played the same game

I don't want to derail this into Undertale discussion more than it is, as there are more cool games to discuss instead and how they changed the industry by introducing genres or gameplay in future games(I kinda waited for someone to mention Doom or WF3D at least so I could get more viewpoints on 'copying' other games), so I understand if you don't wanna argue or discuss it. I don't judge people not liking stuff like Undertale or Deltarune, hell I don't like Dark Souls but I respect it and what it did.

>>719177035
I also considered bringing up that vidya has always been designed as to be affordable to *most* people. The more pricey the sales price is, the riskier the product is(the new Doom game was like $90 to play early)
I guess it is because, whether "gamers" want to admit it or not, vidya started as toys instead of medium for expression
You of course had cartoons when it came to films and movies, but even first games were "fun for the whole family!" like some board games.
Films started as more "high class" medium even if not that much, only TV changed towards 'low income' film and movies, especially when you got the ability to buy individual movies and watch them at home.
Books as well were in past a sign of wisdom and intelligence as not everyone could read.
The unifying fact is that both film and books started as thing for rich and adults.
Vidya is the other way around.

>>719164905
Obviously he took from more than just Undertale. He took from Homestuck, SMT, Touhou, Chrono Trigger etc. It gets tout around as an Earthbound-like because that's where it got most of the overall visual aesthetic, the quirky meta humor, and the weirdness from, and these are the first things you notice about it.

>>719178069
>How it is mocking others? At best you can argue it is bit too heavy handed with criticizing people who mindlessly grind and tries to kill everything, but it fits the world it is written in. I don't see how it is overly "cynical" or anything.
>Where on earth does it mock others nonstop or is afraid to be genuine? I'm bit confused if we played the same game
The constant subversion and jokes at the expense of JRPG tropes, its whole identity is being the anti-JRPG
>you thought you had to kill the monsters? how stupid
>you thought the monsters were trying to kill you? how stupid
>you thought EXP and LV meant experience points and level? how stupid
>you thought you'd be able to sell items in a shop? how stupid
>you thought you were the player character? how stupid

>>719177860
I think the difference is that if some music critic would make top-50 list of best albums, they would be laughed at if they had TOP-10 be some of the most sold and popular albums in mainstream like vidya lists are.
Like try to find a list where TOP-10 doesn't have SM64, TLOU, OoT, FFVII, or Super Mario Bros. 3.
No way you have list where the top-3 has any game that sold under 1m copies.

>>719178243
Didn't he work with Homestuck? I also don't know what he took from that as I'm not familiar at all with it(tried to check it but the og artist/writer/person deleted them. Was some drama I don't want to look into).
>It gets tout around as an Earthbound-like because that's where it got most of the overall visual aesthetic
I went to look and they don't really match from either spritework or art direction. The turn-based combat screen with enemies in front of you has been a thing since... Akalabeth? Or Dragon Quest at least(as well as SMT that you listed but it is bit different).
I can give you quirky meta humor at least partly, but "weirdness" is very vague concept to copy. It matches with some jokes, but not with most meta humor or "weirdness" in general.
The comparison to Earthbound is only because
>Toby made an Earthbound mod
>Earthbound fandom is bit annoying sometimes(also the fact most haven't played it)
>He mentioned it as one of his inspirations
>Memes and people who hates UT because people they don't like likes it(the classic /v/ move)
>It's a Nintendo game
That's why I find the Earthbound comparison strange as there doesn't seem to be much in common. People look at them both being turn-based JRPGs from high camera angle(well Earthbound had bit different perspective on overworld but yeah) and claims it's a clone/knock-off/rip-off/plagiarism(not implying you said it is that so dw).

>>719157052
Good bait

>>719175264
Undertale is good at storytelling in that it takes better advantage of being a videogame to tell its story than most story-focused games. ZeroRanger, Void Stranger, and Iji are some more games where the storytelling is actively served by the gameplay, rather than the two just existing alongside each other.

>>719155002 (OP)
Yeah it's 99.999% marketing and how established you are as a brand. Journo isn't going to write a piece on a game that's not going to get them clicks (although as if they know shit about video games to praise game design in the first place).
I disagree with the faggot above though, even indies like UNDERTALE is susceptible to this type of retarded bias, I mean the game is literally carried by autists faggying around with their characters in their weird gated community.
As a game design (or narrative writing) UT is nothing special but we pretend as if it's a god send because of the hype culture that surrounds itself with the game (and also the gated community is going to lynch mob you if you dared to share this truth as a notable individual).

>>719179178
>you thought you had to kill the monsters? how stupid
The game tells you to not kill anyone. You can kill them, but if you mindlessly grind and slaughter enemies nonstop that don't fight back and you have to spend fuckton of time to find, the characters starts judging you. It is simply a different take on it and you'll realize it before 2h mark.
You can finish UT while killing others. Nobody is stopping you for that, and while Sans comments on it that you maybe could've avoided killing others you can still finish the game and get one of the neutral endings. If you wanna save everyone, that is your choice.
>you thought the monsters were trying to kill you? how stupid
The monsters comment on it, as well as does others. The game doesn't judge for you it, just comments on it.
>you thought EXP and LV meant experience points and level? how stupid
It is a small reveal at the end
>you thought you'd be able to sell items in a shop? how stupid
It's just different world. Like I have no idea how that is being "anti-JRPG".
I might actually start understanding why you see it being "cynical". I don't like being the "Brooooo you misunderstood it it's actually great"-guy, but I think you yourself might've had hard time taking the game seriously and treating characters as characters.
On the game trailer on Steam page, at 24 second mark it tells you quite clearly that you can kill or spare monsters if you want. Later that you decide their fate.
But all in all, it is meant to catch you bit off-guard. On my first playthrough I felt frustrated when I killed a boss because I didn't know how to save them. But it benefits from replayability.
>you thought you were the player character? how stupid
What? How is that mocking or being cynical or "anti-JRPG".

Okay Anon. I'm not saying you should like it, but it feels like you are at this point hating it for the sake of hating it. Sometimes it's good to approach things from neutral experience.

>>719172342
>>719179426
JRPGs are traditionally about fantasy warriors, wizards, rogues etc setting out on a quest in an ancient land, fighting dangerous monsters, and generally being an affair that takes itself seriously as an epic undertaking with japanese takes on the medieval fantasy aesthetic, music, and lore

Earthbound flipped that concept on its head by being about a regular kid from the suburbs getting involved in a paranormal scheme, fighting joke monsters, with funny songs playing, being inspired by cartoons and western pop culture, having a lighthearted tone with quirky humor, parodying JRPGs, yet still being capped off by a body-horror-like segment and final villain

Undertale is just another game in that genre Earthbound created, like how the first couple DQ and FF games were largely the same just with different characters/stories

>>719179915
Thanks for the recs, gotta check them out.

>>719180032
>I mean the game is literally carried by autists faggying around with their characters in their weird gated community.
>but we pretend as if it's a god send because of the hype culture that surrounds itself with the game (and also the gated community is going to lynch mob you if you dared to share this truth as a notable individual).
This is what I mean with my above post of not approaching the game as itself.
I don't wanna be disrespectful but all your criticism towards UT is that "I don't like the community".
Yeah, indie games gets way too much praise sometimes(Braid) but thankfully there is much more good indie to find than good AAA.

I guess one of the biggest problems these days, a thing that I also fall into when wanting good games, is that I just want more of the same that I like instead of experiencing something new. Well gonna fix that with Anon's recs a bit at least.

i can't remember the last time i have seen someone discuss video games in good faith. bless the 2hufag and the anons itt.

>>719180221
Anon I can see you wrote out a lot here and I respect that but explaining or justifying why those things are in the game doesn't somehow negate the fact that they ARE still in the game and that the game's identity is intentionally built around them

If the game was a traditional straightforward honest JRPG, it wouldn't have any of that, since it goes all in those aspects, that makes it an anti-JRPG, regardless of how the nuances are handled

A game like TLOU can go through incredible effort to call its shambling humans "infected" and give out various in-universe scientific justifications for their behavior and show how the other human characters are actually more dangerous and etc, but at the end of the day it's a zombie game because it features zombie game elements that they intentionally chose to focus on, looks like a duck quacks like a duck and all that

>>719180836
I gotta admit that I started writing because OPs question is genuine and because I drank some absinthe and got a feeling I should actually write now that I have an opportunity
But yeah, it's nice change of pace. I don't expect everyone to hop in to 2000/2045 message length posts where I try to find periods, "I am", and "It is" to change so I can reply, but it would be nice to see different perspectives and opinions without devolving into usual flamewar bait.
Like I disagree with some anons but I still respect it in the end because they didn't go that route either. I still can be bit too rough and rude with my criticism over other people's views and opinions and it's sadly a conditioned kneejerk reaction I ended up picking from constant flamewars and shitposting over years.
Gotta sleep tho(gotta wake up in 8 hours, early), so apologizes for the two anons who replied to me as I don't have time to write.
Take care everyone and thanks for everyone who posted(again, alcohol is beautiful thing)

>>719182481
god speed, anon. it was comfy reading the reply chains.

>>719157978
>It launched the whole "Earthbound inspired indie game about depression"
People who were literal children at the time Undertale came out are now trying to tell me about how "Indie earthbound clone" wasn't a thing before it.

>>719155002 (OP)
>Isn't it funny how the games that get praised for having the best game design are almost always the really popular ones from well known brands
No that's not true at all? God Hand isn't popular in the slightest.

>>719183846
Even /v/ stopped talking about God Hand ~10 years ago, back then you still had people talking about less known/successful games but these days it's unheard of

>>719183846
How often do you see God Hand in "Best Games of All Times" lists by game journalists?

>>719162485
normal people never discuss cinematography or storytelling in movies. that is genuinely only the realm of fart sniffers and jobs.

>>719184389
I never actively sought out cinematography discussion in my life yet I ran into lots of people bringing up cinematography in obscurer movies on social media and on /tv/, in cinegrid threads especially

>play game heavily praised for its game design
>it plays like dogshit

>>719160756
It's not you're probably some butthurt faggot who gets mad he makes the men dark sometimes (not because it's BBC, it's just a style choice and you're just a mental midget with a grind to axe)!

>>719186678
Yeah I have no idea why anyone here pretends God Hand is good. Once you figure out that juggling an enemy makes them completely useless regardless of difficulty you realize the game has zero depths

>>719155002 (OP)
>>719155851
>>719156397
Memory happens easiest with emotions.
The easiest way to get good emotions is socialization.
Therefore popular games are the most enjoyed and remembered.

Unfortunate but true.

>>719186678
Every Nintendo game post SNES

>>719164735
I think FromSoft is a pretty good example.
Most people didn't care about their games for a long time, some even being panned on release.
Then they started getting popular for Dark Souls, but it was mostly contained to *just* Dark Souls and Bloodborne.
But after Elden Ring, everyone started talking about their previous games and how they were always a fan of FromSoft's games and so on. Games that were previously niche or not that good were now becoming popularized.
They weren't even that unknown for a while, but most of their games didn't start being considered "good" until AFTER they got extremely popular. Hell, before Elden Ring people would actually criticize them for shit they did (like the Dark Souls remaster), but now you can't even express slight distaste at something without a horde of people coming after you.

>>719183505
I've seen them saying how Undertale and Deltarune are the "only relevant pixel art games", as if there weren't hundreds of other fairly successful ones, some even more so.

>>719175264
>but the one who keeps spamming textwalls.
i don't think that's a thing to be ashamed of, effortposting about something you like talking about is a good thing this board needs more of.

Desperate bump.

/v/ struggling to reply to this thread because it feels called out

>>719193112
i don't really follow many popular games that closely so i've just been lurking the thread and i agree with it.

>>719155002 (OP)
Because nobody got time to play indie shit friend. I'd rather play polished and high production value games because I care about presentation, graphics, features, etc.

>>719155002 (OP)
First of all, some games got popular and made their "brand" known because they were good and unique in the first place. Once publishers and developers find a formula that people enjoy they will milk it as long as there's an audience for it.
>even if those games have lesser known competitors who build upon the formula or replicate it perfectly, their reception always has caveats like "it doesn't *feel* right" or "the devs just don't *get* it" as if the brand is the magic ingredient that makes the games good
Yes because they're copycats. The first mover gets the advantage and usually has more resources to develop better games. If you like the CoD formula why play the copycats? If you like the Dark Souls formula why play soulsclones? I mean, you can play them, but your allegiance will always be to the original. Why spend my money on the copy when I can play the original?

>>719195615
"The original" only has worth if you're a brand whore

>>719155002 (OP)
Higher cost of production = higher amount of profit
And in order to get profit they need to pay influental people or media to shill their slop to normies.
This practice is similar with film industry where some big budget capeslop have this huge marketing and attention from media as opposed to smaller festival films despite the latter being more artistic and sovlfvl in any sense.
It wasnt about art or design or passion, it was all about money and profit

>>719197097
Honestly we need more film festival kind of events for vidya

>>719197940
next fests are pretty gud
sure there is some dogshit but that's true even with hyper-curated lists of high profile games with big advertising budgets. you'd be surprised at how much /v/ actually will talk about actual videogames when they're playing something novel instead of just shitposting.