Thread 719225332

>Kris is mostly controlled by us but will do things independently, without player input.
>"That's someone separate. I'm controlling this poor guy like he's a meat puppet."
>The red soul is mostly controlled by us but will do things independently, without player input.
>"I AM THE RED HEART, HOW FUCKING DARE YOU NOT FUCKING BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE A RED HEART.PNG TOO!?!?!?"
You losers get more mad at the possibility of not being a red heart in a kids game than you get mad at anything else. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

>>719225935
tee hee

HEY JANNIES YOU MISSED A SPOT

>>719226041
I hope the SOUL isn't (you) because of people like picrel. If you have the mindset of picrel please tell me what about this sounds appealing to you. Who wants to get lectured to by a game? That sounds so pretentious

Every time you disobey me I will draw more porn of you fucking your childhood friend, Kris.

>>719225332 (OP)
actual second hand embarrassment from reading this shit. get a job.

>>719226254
And yet... you're here!

>>719226226
Oh no... how terrible

>>719225332 (OP)
I will take over the body of your childhood friend, Kris. And you will be forced to see her getting ravaged by dozens of cocks, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Fuck you Kris.

>>719226164
You're assuming that the soul being (You) would make this twitterfag's reading of the game's direction correct. It's pretty evident that the soul is the thing we use to interact with Deltarune's world, and Kris isn't an innocent victim who's being unjustly controlled by it. They're called a cage in the prophecy for a reason, Kris needs the soul more than we need them and if you're paying attention Kris is up to all sorts of suspicious and evil shit. Just look at the fucking context around the soul and Kris' actions in the normal route to understand why this twitter post would be retarded; in fact it basically already happens in the Weird Route scene but that's after we use our demon powers to fuck up Noelle beyond repair and thus actually has impact since it's borne entirely of our own decisions

>>719226164
I mean to respond to OP, not that guy calling for jannies. My bad.
>>719226442
Yeah that makes sense, I'm not even against the player being the SOUL or being a part of the game's narrative. But if there's ever a part of the game that feels like its wagging its finger at you, count me out. I get characters being upset at your actions if you do bad shit on purpose. But it really does feel like a large portion of Deltarune fans (especially twittertards) WANT this game to wag its finger at you and call you a bad boy for the mere act of playing it

>>719226164
You're missing the point. If the game isn't literally about me I'll shit my pants in mandchild rage..

>Kris had the soul already possessing him before the events of the game
>Carol already knows the soul personally from before the events of the game
>There are scenes where you control other characters with no Kris or Soul present.
It absolutely is just another character that's part of the game's world and who you control as the player outside the game.

>>719228024
I think it's Dess

What the hell is wrong with this family

>>719228095
the lack of snouts

>>719226605
The point of media is to make you feel things, and if you don't want to feel what Deltarune may give you that's fair, but don't take umbrage with the fact that the game may want to pull a message like that.

>>719228324
I don't get what anyone would like about a game that tells you you're le evil for playing it

gay game made for trannies, furries and manchildren worse than tendies, literal bottom-tier of humanity community.
enjoy your "muh deep gaming philosophy" slop niggerfaggots!

>>719228387
Because liking somthing is not the be all end all, the experience is.
Not everything in life and in the media we consume has to or should be fun all the time.
A work should be able to invoke every emotion from its audience that its creator wants to invoke and should be judged on both its ability to make that message and on ones personal tastes as separate factors.

With that in mind if Toby wants to do a pivot to harshly addressing the audience for engaging in the first place (which if UT Genocide is anything to go by he can manage with legitimate grace) it should be his prerogative to do that and as long as he isn't hurting anyone, to deny it is wrong on principle.

TLDR Whether one likes it or not is the wrong question to ask in the first place.

>>719226041
YWNBAJ

>>719228685
I just don't see any value in that, if that's what will happen. Which I don't think that's what's going to happen, but still

>>719225332 (OP)
>You stupid fucking incel chud how dare you control Kris
It's not like we/the soul wants to control Kris, we were supposed to create our own vessel and then that process got aborted and we inserted ourselves into Kris
And it's not like we're particularly good at controlling him either since when it actually matters he can just take the soul out and do whatever he wants including his evil fountain opening shenanigans

why did Toby decide to make her a bonafide pedophile? does he think that he can get away with it if it's a woman?

>>719229316
I have a better question. Why is this community more upset at the possibility of the player not being the soul than at the depiction of Dess as a kiddie diddler?

>>719228915
Personally I don't think he will either
But the value is in invoking the feeling associated with the game berating your for playing it. It doesn't need anymore value or reason.

>>719229475
E...

>>719229475
classic

>>719229384
Yeah this is the website to clutch pearls about pedos. Kek

>>719229519
It's more about the patheticness of playerfags, don't miss the point.

haha i like playing this fun little game

>>719229570
Agreed. It's a neat experience.

>>719229570
Me... (player and souldevice)

I hate Ralsei so much that he's gotten me to start hating Susie too from her enabling of his bullshit.

>>719229441
But what's it all mean? What's the point?

>>719229475
What's the origin of this image?

>>719229660
Gaster...

>>719229570
>>719229624
>>719229638
go back

>>719229778
Can't go back when you're already at home

>>719229662
If your asking for meaning it can be anything depending on the form it would come in but it could range from intentional subversion of the ending of Mother 3, to confronting the ideas of player agency and choice in order to make you think differently in the future, or anything in between.
The meaning matters less than in this hypothetical than Toby wanting to do it and make people feel certain things from it.
The creators will and whim inherently matters the most in art, then its just on the to in turn express what they want to.
Like a scary movie that wants you to feel scared.

>>719226164
I want the soul to be the player so that I can be proven right, and Kris can be proven as a evil bastard. The idea of a teenager being possessed by an extra dimensional entity, and the entity being the good guy in the relationship is too cool to pass up.

Meanwhile third entity is simultaneously over complicated and boring.

We really need chapter 5 soon these threads are like 50% nu/v/ buzzword spam now

>>719229897
>He says while posting the most nu/v/ meme

So why did the unused sneaking theme have the Lost Girl motif in it, anyway?

>>719229883
It wouldn't be convoluted if it's Dess' soul, besides we still have some chapters left to explain it either way

>>719229846
>Like a scary movie that wants you to feel scared.
But if a game telling you you're bad for playing has any purpose what would it be? To frustrate the player?

>>719228685
Dogshit writing is dogshit writing. Calling the player an evil bad boy for playing the game is stupid. (as a side note, you've grossly misread Undertale if you think the point of the genocide was to call you evil for playing the game).

>>719229441
By that metric, your average bait thread is peak fiction because it elicits anger and frustration from the reader. For a work to be good it has to have actual artistic merit, or at least be put together well.

Calling the player evil for playing the game is derivative, boring, uninspired, and really isn't saying much of anything at all. Its basically just rage bait in video game form.

>>719229695
/b/

>>719229846
>The creators will and whim inherently matters the most in art,
I disagree. What the creator wants and intend matters very little. What matters most is the reader/viewer/player's experience of the work.

>>719230046
>It wouldn't be convoluted if it's Dess' soul
Yes it would, and would still be stupid.

>>719230426
eh, 50/50

>>719230343
I don't mean the reaction image. I mean the original image it was made from.

>>719230486
A monster and human combining their souls similarly to how it was in Undertale (but not exactly the same) wouldn't be that crazy or convoluted, and I think it's interesting

>>719230494
80/20 in favor of the player. Sometimes less in the case of a particularly out of touch artist.

>>719228095
Carol and Dess already got cucked, and Noelle still thinks she is going to avoid this fate.

>>719230581
>20/80
I'm assuming I get the 80

>>719230127
That's one of the reasons, another is to make them feel guilt, unease, hostility or even disengagement in those moments so that the player is more likely to act a certain way if they keep playing.
But the reason is secondary to Toby hypothetically wanting to do it.
>>719230158
I never said he said genocide was bad just harsh in what I think it actually is trying to do, that being a commentary on the player going from treating the game as an experience with a world and characters they are attached to on an emotional level, to the equally interesting but detached world of completionism and secret delving.
Again i don't actually think toby would do anything I'm arguing about just that it would be ok if he did on principle.
>>719230275
If something gets its intention across than yeah, I personally don't have to like it but one should at the very least understand the act and be able to separate acknowledgment of success in an act from personal enjoyment or value, even if you fairly do value your enjoyment more.
its like observing a really well done whittled carving while hating whittling, only an unreasonable man cannot respect the craftsmanship even if its useless bullshit in your eyes.

>>719230550
So then what's the Knight? Why do we control the soul? Why are we, the player, still an in universe entity separate from the soul? How did Kris manage to take a normal monster's soul? Where's his soul? If humans can take monster souls and monsters can take human souls, then why isn't soul theft a society destroying, global race war causing problem like it was in Undertale?

>>719225332 (OP)
Why are you people so mind bogglingly autistic.

>>719230698
If you're the player, yes. The player's experience is what makes up the vast majority of a game's worth. Or any artistic work for that matter.

>>719230736
We don't know either way, we don't know anything if the soul is supposed to be the player or something just controlled by the player or something else entirely, I don't have the answers

>>719225332 (OP)
Does Undertale even have (You) existence?
Undertale has a LOT of meta humor but all of them could be explained in universe without involving the player.

>>719225332 (OP)
the soul is a device we use to control kris
and i will control him to make multiple children with Noelle and put a piece of the soul in her too

>>719230796
I was making a cool reference in that last post

>>719230750
the result of making a "game" that appeals mostly to trannies and furries. mental disorders galore
but at least they are not planning schoolshootings while sperging on this shit

one of the would be school shooters in question: >>719230862

>>719230726
Trout Mask Replica is an album expertly crafted to be the most disharmonic and non-sensical collection of songs ever played. It achieves that goal perfectly. And its still bad music. Some of the worst.

Achieving a goal doesn't make that goal good.

>>719230750
Vaccines, chemicals in the water, old parents, the failure of natural selection. Its anyone's guess what actually causes it.

>>719230817
Chara is the only one in the game that interacts directly with (you) and all other interaction with the game world is done via Chara.
However Chara is a hollow mirror by the start of the game and can be groomed via their own worst impulses into becoming a copy of the part of (you) that does genocide which you then carry forward into new gaming experiences not because you literally have Chara with (you) but because what you made them into is sticking with you regardless.

Sans works for FBI, sovl glows in the dark, any other three-letter agents I need to know about?

>>719230964
It doesn't have to be good, it just has to Be while ideally achieving its goals.

>>719230964
Don't let /mu/ catch you saying that

>>719230806
Having Kris be possessed by a soul, which is in turn possessed by something else is needlessly convoluted and robs the story of potential for dealing with the relationship between Kris and the Player by making it nothing but a Kris Dess thing.

Not to mention it requires way more explaining that the player being the soul.

>>719231145
Every time I see /mu/ posts, it is always some indie rock shit, and I am heavily allergic to this whole scene.

>>719231153
Those things you said don't have to be mutually exclusive. Besides, it wouldn't be that much different than how it was in Undertale

>>719230817
Chara and Flowey both address (you) directly, separate from Frisk, at the end of their respective routes.

>>719231198
Out of all the boards, /mu/ has the worst taste in music. I guess that's how it is for all boards. /v/ has the worst taste in video games but has better taste in music than /mu/. It's probably true in vice versa as well

>>719230951
found the yurifag

.

>>719231267
I'm reminded on when someone /here/ said that Kris would listen to Aeroplane over the Sea

>>719231132
It doesn't have to BE anything, but if its going to be something then it should strive to be the best something it can be. And who determines what is best is the player, not the developer.

Goals don't matter

>The sprites for the Prophecy's icons for Queen and Tenna have "boss1" and "boss2" respectively in their names. The icon for Asgore's prophecy entry has "boss3", perhaps indicating that Asgore will be a future Dark World boss in an upcoming chapter.
flowerGODs

>>719231327
I tried listening to that album and I just don't get the appeal

>>719231205
Those things are mutually exclusive enough to be hamstrung if they are shoved together like that.
>it wouldn't be that much different than how it was in Undertale
It worked in Undertale because Undertale was not about the relationship between the player and the player character. Frisk is for all intents and purposes a blank slate to be used by the player, and he's only made distinct at the end to serve its message about completionism.

>>719231504
I guess this all depends on how much you care for the whole Kris/Soul dynamic being an aspect of player relationship with a player character. Personally I find that way less interesting than if it was someone the actual character knew in their life

>>719231381
What if its Toby fucking with dataminers? What if its actually like a short fake out boss, or a boss that shares the same silhouette as Asgore?

>>719231563
The player/Kris dynamic is THE killer feature of the game. No other game has done it like this, and it makes an incredibly interesting story.

>>719231360
>what is best is the player, not the developer.
And I'm saying that both are true and you as a thinking individual should be able and willing to compartmentalize and hold both as true at once based upon different criterial.
You can have something like the 80/20 split mentioned above as the primary value judgment but an inability to also acknowledge what that 20% is meant to represent is peak consumer brain.
And you doing even need to have it at 20% it can literally be 0% of your value in a project as along as you acknowledge that it exists as a valid criteria to keep in mind, even if it does not factor in to your measurements.

>>719231626
It's not for me

>>719231626
>The player/Kris dynamic is THE killer feature of the game
thats mostly just because were halfway through the game and know basically nothing else about the overarching plot tbdesu, as much as i like it its not really anything special so far

>>719231113
Ralsei works for either the KGB or NSA, and I'm not sure which. Possible double-agent.
Lancer is with the RCMP. So is the Queen.
Noelle is an undercover CPS agent.
Susie is Polish.

>>719231804
toby mocking theoryschizos was kinda funny but it's also a sign that we aren't getting any satisfying answers, just some fnaf mystery bs

>>719231632
Its not inability, its unwillingness due to a lack of reason. Why should I give any weight to the developer's intentions? Their intentions don't appear in the game, all that appears is the result, and all I'll ever see is my experience of the result.

Their intent matters almost none beyond how it colors my perception of the game.

>>719231887
Because its common courtesy to give creators when they make something as you should be given in kind.
Again not getting this is peak comusmer brain

I had a dream that "the cage with human soul and parts" was Kris' birdcage combined with the soul combined with Kris' goner arm. He threw the arm inside the cage with the soul, a tiny dark fountain opened in the cage, and then the cage, soul, and arm transformed into the vessel.

>>719231804
You don't have to know the whys to see the dynamic. We, the player, are an outside force brought into this world to control Kris and complete the game. Kris has his own desires and goals, separate and opposed to ours. Kris himself is morally grey at best, while we range from morally grey to good in the normal route, and morally grey to evil in the weird route.

I've never seen a game have the player character be the antagonist against the player before.

>>719232025
you're easily impressed m8

>>719225332 (OP)
>a kids game
Is that how oikophobic subversives market their propaganda? Makes sense, seeing how oikophobia really is just the mindset of a bratty child...

>>719231974
I don't want this courtesy. I openly reject this courtesy. I want people to form their own opinions of my works free of my own intentions and personality. I want people to misread my work and interpret wildly differently from how intended.

Creators are owed nothing and should be given nothing unless they earn it.

>consumer brain
A meaningless buzzword. I could just as easily call you a pretentious arthouse faggot who buys shit smeared on a canvas because some famous artfag made it, but I don't because that has very little to do with the merits of the points being made.

>>719232067
no argument

>>719231217
>Chara
Could be explained as talking to Frisk
>Flowey
He's mumbling to Chara's spirit whom may or may not be there in the underground alone, not to the player

>>719232263
i guess i'm just not autistic enough to flip my shit at such a concept

>>719232368
>He's mumbling to Chara's spirit whom may or may not be there in the underground alone, not to the player
Flowey is speaking explicitly to an entity which he knows exists, can respond to his actions, has the power to save and load, and controlled Frisk for his entire journey through the underground. Not vaguely speaking to his dead brother like you'd talk to grandma's ashes.
>Could be explained as talking to Frisk
Frisk was never in control or making any decisions of any kind as shown by the interactions at the end of true pacifist, and there is no moving on to the next world for Frisk. When Undertale ends, that's it for him. By the end of genocide, Chara is nothing by a reflection of (you). So when you move on to the next game, he comes with you, because he is (you).

The only way you can make all of this diagetic and in universe is if you're being intentionally obtuse.

>>719225332 (OP)
The SOUL is not literally me, I am literally me. Only idiots believe otherwise. The player in the game is supposed to be the chump staring at the screen playing the game. The SOUL is our means to interact with and influence the world behind the screen, just like in Undertale. Most of the time we are in full control of the SOUL, but sometimes it is on autopilot. It doesn't mean the SOUL is conscious or has its own agenda.
Can we stop having this discussion already?

>>719225332 (OP)
There's a small dog inside the heart controlling it. I am that dog.

>>719232515
>soiface reaction image
anti argument, you detract from your point by posting it

>>719232602
What's she doing with that cactus?

nerf the knight

>>719232726
nerf nuke

>>719230000
Because Kris used to sneak out of his room to meet Dess and have sex on the grass in the warmth of a summer night. Nice quads btw.

>>719232592
>Not vaguely speaking to his dead brother
Why would Flowey address (You) as Chara in the ending instead of literally anything else? (You)'re not Chara.
>Chara is nothing by a reflection of (you).
That's the intention of the meta-commentary, sure. But even with the absence of (You), Chara talking to Frisk introduces no plot hole.

>>719232703
[Determination]

>>719231575
you don't need to datamine to get the implication though

>>719232825
This. There's nothing to suggest that Chara isn't talking to Frisk. But there's a double meaning to it in the form of meta commentary. The fourth wall break is there, but it's not like Doki Doki Literature Club or whatever

>>719228081
If Dess is a human Undertale's plot has been retroactively ruined. Noelle and Dess are in the underground in that universe and Flowey would have found them.

>>719232703
Getting stronger

>>719233112
they're different universes

>>719233190
Yes and the Holidays are confirmed to exist in that universe.

>>719233283
maybe their versions have retarded souls

>>719233324
Or Dess is the only character whose Undertale parallel is a different species. I just don't think she's human man her room has shoes fitted for hooves in it.

>>719233414
probably not

>>719232997
The implication could also be a fake out. We've already been faked out loads of times already.

>>719232825
>(You)'re not Chara.
(you) and Chara share a name for a reason. Remember that most players choose their own name when naming the fallen human, and that's by design.
>Chara talking to Frisk introduces no plot hole.
The line about abandoning this world and moving on to the next does not work with Frisk since he explicitly locked to Undertale's world. And we know that Chara doesn't mean another save file, since he bricks your game upon completion of the genocide route.

>>719233058
I don't see why you people have such an aversion to the meta elements of the game that you have to bend over backwards to twist this strange readings of the game into existence to make everything be non-meta.

>>719225332 (OP)
I'm tired of these shitty player discussions, can we just go back to talking about cute humans or the doe rape?

>>719234021
I have human fatigue.

>>719234135
Shut up Chujin

>>719228685
You're retarded and what is wrong with the fandom. I hope OP is right if people like you genuinely want player to be bad no matter what.

>>719234135
Me too, I am SICK of these fucking NINGEN producing race mixing propaganda!

>>719228685
Toby making an experience that is the equivalent of waiting a decade just to get dogshit thrown in your face then kicked in the testicles definitely won't be fun.

>>719230736
>Why are we, the player, still an in universe entity separate from the soul?
I would assume we aren't in that case.

>>719234021
What is Robert's fetish for androgynous long-haired children?

>>719234213
>>719234285
I always wonder how much crossover there is between the UTY and DR thread posters.

>>719234135
not Carol...

>>719234021
>frisk: male
>kris: male
>chara: female
anyone who disagrees with me just doesn't get toby's vision

>>719230817
No. This post is a secondary that got mandela effected by the true reset speech >>719231217
Flowey is explicitly talking to Chara in his speech, people need to play the game.
https://youtu.be/tI0Pb_z4HSU

>>719234343
>in that case
Well the player is a confirmed in universe entity as shown by all the in character messages to the player which can only be seen outside of the game such as the twitter takeovers, various data mining messages, and the survey program. All of which seem to be written by the same person we speak to in the menus. Which then would heavily imply that he sees us the player as ourselves in the game.

>>719231504
Frisk isn't a blank slate. Why is it that every playerfag doesn't get Undertale? Chara was your blank slate, that's why you name them and they tell you they're part of (you).

I want Kris to kiss Asriel

>>719232602
>>719232673
Sauce? This is funny

>>719234513
Asriel will kiss Rory Night.

>>719234361
99%? If you are autistic about undertale you're almost certainly autistic about deltarune. Its telling that there's like two Deltarune Yellow projects from here alone as well

>>719234385
Gay. Frisk is a cute girl and my wife. Anyone who thinks Frisk and Kris are males but not Chara is a shitty self-inserter that thinks they need to insert into the characters they play, missing the entire game's message.

>>719234406
He calls you that because you're expected to put your own name in the "name the fallen human field". Even if he does think you're Chara, you're clearly not since you meet Chara in the genocide ending after resurrecting him, and he's clearly a distinct entity from you.

>>719234447
>seen outside of the game such as the twitter takeover
This happened in Undertale as well with Flowey, and once the game came out he was explicitly talking with Chara. Plus Toby said only things in the game itself are canon, too.

>>719234649
If you played the game, you would know everytime the fallen humans name is used, it's supposed to refer to the fallen human. Even IF Flowey is talking to the player, he still believes he's talking to Chara and thus the scene is up to interpretation.

>>719234479
Frisk is a blank slate, even if he is technically his own person. He has no real personality beyond doing what you tell him and occasionally passively resisting when the plot demands it.
>that's why you name them and they tell you they're part of (you).
Which still means that the player exists canonically in the game, since Chara refers to (you) as an entity which he is merely a part of.

As a side note. I find it funny that Chara has more personality that Frisk does, despite supposedly being meant as the blank slate of the two.

>undyne and alphys
>dess and asriel
>susie and ralsei
Toby wants a fit tomboy to sit on his dweeb face doesn't he?

>>719234749
>muh secondaries
biggest retard boogeyman on this site.

No, anon. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a secondary. Its possible to play the game and interpret it differently from how you did.

>Even IF Flowey is talking to the player, he still believes he's talking to Chara and thus the scene is up to interpretation.
How can he be talking to Chara if Chara is dead? How can you be Chara when he's seen talking to (you) post resurrection?

>>719234605
Obviously all the UTY fans like Deltarune, but how many of them come to DR threads on /v/ regularly, and what percentage of the larger /v/ deltarune thread population do they make up?

>>719234813
Damn. Imagine the extra fishy taste and aroma. And then overpowering it by adding your squid and chlorine smell mix.

>>719234804
Frisk does have a personality, it's just subtle and you need to actually look at the ACTing, which requires you to actually play the game and pay attention to it. Like knowing they're so playful they play the gay guards chest as a bongo, for example.
>>719234916
Not a boogeyman when you responded to the other guy, you completely ignored Flowey explicitly calling Chara's name, and now you're justifying this by saying the player can also be called with Chara's name, even though that literally never happens.

>>719234980
Every time there's a yellow thread Deltarune threads slow down considerably, so I guess it's a lot of people. Which sucks because I have no interest in discussing it.

It's ̴a̶l̶l just an e̸x̷p̸e̷riment, anon.

>>719234813
he's a man of taste

>>719235056
>Frisk does have a personality, it's just subtle and you need to actually look at the ACTing, which requires you to actually play the game and pay attention to it.
Frisk only has as much personality as you tell him to have and even then its not much. He's a goober who doesn't like soda. That's it.
>you completely ignored Flowey explicitly calling Chara's name,
Its impossible for (you) to be Chara because he's a separate entity and dead in the pacifist route
>even though that literally never happens.
Flowey calls you Chara throughout the whole game just like calls Frisk Chara until the end. The guy is very bad about misidentifying people as his dead brother.

>>719234641
Frisk is male because he fucks Toriel
Chara is female because I don't care about her
Kris is male because he fucks Toriel

>>719235032
Well, time to start drinking fish oil again.

>>719235223
all of them are looking at Kris btw

>>719235228
Frisk does have a personality. The only reason you don't think so is because: You think Frisk is being possessed (wrong). Frisk is the playable character, so you naturally project onto them (same reason people still self-insert as Kris, as well). Frisk still has a personality and you completely ignored my reasoning to repeat yourself.

You aren't Toby, you can't say what's impossible or not. The fact is that Flowey was calling to Chara, the player is never called by that name, and Flowey mistaking someone else for Chara would genuinely be bad writing at the end of pacifist. You should learn what point of view change is, anon. Undertale fans seem to think the story needs to always be in a singular point of view for some reason.

>>719235275
Cope Kris

>>719235231
This is exactly what I'm talking about, btw. It's all because Frisk and Kris are the playable characters. Sometimes I wish Chara was the playable character instead.

>>719235353
Meanwhile
>Kris and Dess fanart

>>719235416
How would Chara being playable change Frisk and Kris having hot, animalistic and bed-breaking sex with Tori?

>>719226164
>Get a Game Over
>Choose not to continue
>"Then the world was covered in darkness."
>"B-But we're definitely evil you guys!"

>>719235518
just save the world yourself instead of raping teenagers to get your way

>>719235576
I would if I had a half decent vessel but noooo I had to get a teenager with blue hair and pronouns

>>719235576
Okay Toby how do I do that?

>>719235498
Because you would self-insert as Chara instead, anon.

>>719225332 (OP)
The proof that the player is actually a part in the story is the scene you get in the Playstation version at the end of Chapter 4 if you don't get any achievements. In that scene, Gaster is speaking directly to the player, no other character in the game is aware of achievements, only the player and of course the metaman Gaster, that scene would make 0 sense if it was speaking to anyone other than the player.

You may respond to this by saying that Toby was forced to add achievements, and you are right, he was forced to add achievements, but he was not forced to add a scene that specifically triggers if you don't get any achievements, he could have simply left the regular scene in, but he decided to add a new replacement scene by his own choice, so it was fully his idea to have a scene of Gaster speaking directly to the player.

>>719235682
Non sequitur + Repeating yourself + No argument

>>719235223
what if undyne is just excited to give them a ticket for washing that car in a public place and polluting the environment

>>719234813
He's a homosexual with a vagina fetish, like every other "tomboy"-luster, yes.

Anyone here like playing video games?

>>719235890
Hell no.

>>719235518
This.

Motherfuckers will actively reject the fact YOU are the Ark that brings forth the Light even after chapter fucking 4 makes it clear only YOU can do it. Your ass is the only thing which can banish the Darker Than Dark, even as people like Kris and Susie make their own Dark Worlds. We are objectively the only thing which can stop the Roaring and the only fuckers who actively fight to do so.

>>719235771
Not really. My point was that you self-insert as the playable characters, and you keep dodging actually addressing this. Not need to play dumb.

>>719235223
>Undyne
Should've been Alphys there.

>>719235890
I did, until ideological subversives like Robert took over both the industry and hobby from the top-down.

>>719235876
>He's a homosexual with a vagina fetish
the fuck does that even mean

>>719236000
>like every other "tomboy"-luster
Don't get mad at me because (You) ignored the answer.

>>719235971
so it would end up to be
>kris alphys
>dess asgore
>asriel susie
or
>asgore susie
>asriel alphys
>kris dese

>>719235971
I can get behind that.

>>719235737
Dess has the potential to be a complete dickhead but I don't know if the game will go through with that.

>>719236320
I am of the view she will be potrayed as a morally greyish character who's willing to do fucked up shit for her goals. Regardless I think its clear she played a pivotally role in Kris's development. Hell he probably learned to play music from her, and was only comfortable playing with her in attendance.

>>719234513
This but non-sexually

>>719236320
i will laugh my ass off if dess turns out to be chara 2.0

>>719234813
>susie
>fit

>>719236545
As a Chara fan, I really don't want that. I am already good enough with Kris being Chara's counterpart.

>>719234135
Based Chara

>>719235738
How fat is her "wiffle bat" precisely? Does she lube it up before "punishing" Kris with it?

>>719236487
>>719236545
I hope she looks like bit of a goober like Noelle instead of being too conventionally "cool".

>>719234351
It's part of his tomboy/femboy fetish.

One thing I liked about the new chapters is how a lot of new 'demons' from... whatever the fuck is the bunker aren't just gaster clones. ERAM was cool as fuck and I hope we see other being beyond our comprehension fuck with the cast as the game goes on.

>>719237323
So he likes trannies, buff "women," and children. How he's never willingly collaborated with Vaush, I'll never know...

Don't forget

Her name is Roaring Fraud

>>719234916
>How can he be talking to Chara if Chara is dead?
Flowey deduces that Chara has the same power of determination as he did because they both die at the same time.

>>719234916
>How can he be talking to Chara if Chara is dead?
Flowey deduces that Chara has the same power of determination as he did because they both die at the same time.
He thinks the reason why he lost the power of time shifting was because Chara is alive.

>>719237417
How can we counter the power of cutscenes?

>>719232025
It's amazing how people still have this plot point go over their heads this hard but not only that act like the meta stuff isn't the most important part of DR

>>719237593
You can't but then again, your thing is mega wrong.
Kris has been lying to Susie since forever. We have been the most honest creatures in the game to her. The only thing lying and omitting information to her all the time has just been Kris, not You, not the Vessel. She freaks out on Ralsei exactly because he's constantly lying, omitting information and more, we as players don't know shit much like how she doesn't. The only one betraying and getting beaten is Kris, especially after making the fountain in chapter 3 to get the plan in motion.

>>719235421
>>719235353
And I wouldn't want it any other way

>>719234980
>Obviously all the UTY fans like Deltarune
Lol no

>>719237417
i like how this animation had to put the sword slash going the wrong way because people still can't come to grips with Kris being the one who slashed them

>>719236545
People keep mistaking Dess as being the one manipulating Kris when it's obviously Carol. How the knight plays into that is something we haven't seen yet.

>>719237517
That's not true. Flowey thinks Frisk stole his powers because she was more determined than him, which is factual. Nothing of what you said is true. In genocide Flowey thinks Chara took over Frisk and stole her soul, which is also true since in genocide Chara has more control.

>>719238297
Carol is the most obvious red herring in the universe.

>>719238526
She's the goddamn mayor, dude. She's the character that knows most in the lightworld along with ASS GORE.

>>719234649
The idea behind that scene is supposed to be that (You) are beholden to your autistic urge to 100% complete games no matter how pointless it is, Chara is that part of (You). But Toby wanting that character to also have their own backstory and role in the plot is kinda clumsy writing in general and it’s not worth overthinking it

>>719225332 (OP)
toby is making it up as he goes btw.

>>719225332 (OP)
yes i am the heart
i prayed for the light
i prayed for noelle in the church and to beat spamton
just like i prayed for ness and friends to kill giygas
it always comes back to earthbound

>>719238673
Why do playerfags always call Toby a bad writer?

>>719238297
Carol calling and whoever is calling with the scratchy voice are not the same person. This is very obvious.

>>719239248
All of Robert's fans are broken clocks, and only some of them are right twice a day. The rest are missing hands.

>>719239271
I still think that's just the Knight.

>>719238383
Both Frisk (as your proxy) and Chara always have the same amount of potential control over the body and it comes down to who decides to take charge in that moment, it is exactly like how Asriel and Chara worked when they combined. Chara doesn't steal Frisk's soul, Flowey assumes that Chara was in control in that moment and has always been because you've been acting exactly like he did before with the genocide, which is how he assumes Chara would. But you are the one that did it all of your own accord.

>>719235576
>being a hero who rapes people
It's called Cosby-Style

>>719239847
I know. But Chara still narrates in first person exclusively in the genocide route and explicitly does things on their own ("I unlocked the chain"). They're still more in control in genocide than any other route.

>>719240190
Narrating in more direct first person in Genocide doesn't suggest more control, it just suggests a different frame of mind brought about by all the death. Chara also does things on his own in all the routes, it's just more subtle and easier to overlook in comparison because the different narration style draws much more attention to it on that route and you don't have any reason to watch for it on the others until that one.

What is this franchise even about anymore? I thought it was about mostly peaceful monsters underground.

>>719225332 (OP)
toby is a shit writer
deltarune is so inconsistent

>>719240536
Narrating in first person does suggest more control, or at the very least more involvement. Especially coupled with Chara doing actions on their own, like walking over Papyrus's puzzles, telling you how many monsters are left and straight up advising not to proceed until that's done. Playerfags erasing Chara's influence in the genocide route is the biggest mistake the fandom did.

>>719240979
Chara is you that’s why you get to name them and why Toby suggests using your own name

>>719240741
Deltarune is a parallel (?) story with a lot of the same characters but in different contexts. Also it takes place on the surface and they aren't able to use magic normally.

>>719241097
Chara represents a facet of you, but isn't literally (you).

>>719240979
>>719241097
I always understood it as Chara being both a character in the story and also a representation of the player's own compulsive desire to 100% the game no matter what, hence giving in to that desire is equivalent to lending your control to the character in the game.

>>719240741
Deltarune is a sequel where the monsters are living above ground. You play as the Underkid who grew up with Toriel after the true pacifist ending but things get weird when he gets in a closet with the school bully...

>>719241264
Yes that’s what I said earlier but the same person cried about me being a “Playerfag”
Idk why but Undertale/DT fans seem to really struggle with any element of the story that isn’t literally happening on screen, themes just go straight out the window in favor of retarded bullshit