Thread 720339270

Explain how he's evil without seething

>>720339270 (OP)
he's a monopolist that hates money

He’s based

He's not evil, just stupid and doesn't realize that 'survival of the fittest' doesn't mean shit to rich people that can hire cyber bodyguards.

He's a hypocrite. He wants the people to have "freedom to fight their own wars", yet he's got the wealth, technology, and connections to be alright if things became like how he wants.

>>720339270 (OP)
He's going to create a literal feudal warlord state. Ask yourself if you really wanna live in hyper Detroit.

Child soldiers.

>>720339270 (OP)
Survival of the fittest doesn't matter in a world with advanced technology.

>>720339270 (OP)
He's correct but he has put himself on his own one man team against the rest of humanity even the people who agree with him. Therefore by his own rules if I kill him I am justified in doing so.

>>720339308
>>720339492
I DO NEED CAPITAL. AND VOTES. WANNA KNOW WHY? I HAVE A DREAM.
>>720339504
WE'RE MAKING THE MOTHER OF ALL OMELETTES HERE, ANON. CAN'T FRET OVER EVERY EGG.
>>720339419
THE WEAK WILL BE PURGED AND THE STRONGEST WILL THRIVE, FREE TO LIVE AS THEY SEE FIT.

>>720339704
He hates money, he wants to start war as a business so he can end war as a business.

>>720339270 (OP)
War creates survivors not stronger people, veterans would probably agree to this

>>720339704
>THE WEAK WILL BE PURGED AND THE RICHEST WILL THRIVE
Fix'd that for you, egg head.

>>720339270 (OP)
Word of god says the following is his actual opinions, so here is how he's evil:
>The unenlightened masses
>They cannot make the judgement call
>Give up free will forever their voices won't be heard at all
>Display obedience
>While never stepping out of line
>And blindly swear allegiance
>Let your country control your mind
>Live in ignorance
>And purchase your happiness
>When blood and sweat is the real cost
>Thinking ceases, the truth is lost
>Don't you worry
>You'll be told exactly what to do
>I give my people the lives they need
>The righteous will succeed
>The fires of greed will burn the weak
>So we'll make freedom obsolete
>Making whole the fabric of society
>Collective consciousness controlled as you will see
>Let your country control your soul
>Let your country control your soul
>Let your country control your soul
>Let your country control your soul

>>720339785
This is true when anybody can be killed by a single bullet, and less true when everybody has perfect robot nanomachine bodies like Raiden and Armstrong, which still isn't true in their universe. Most cyborgs suck ass in the revengeance timeline.

>>720339270 (OP)
you fight him and he's a boss

>>720339270 (OP)
Law & order is a good thing.

>>720339270 (OP)
His philosophy is flawed.
>Oh you died because an ultra rich asshat who could afford to fully borg out into a cyberninja sliced you in half with a high tech katana?
>Welp, looks like you deserved it for being too weak! Only the strongest survive!

It is retarded. He is only strong because he has money to afford ridiculous augmentations.

>yap a bunch of deliberately contradictory nonsense in one (1) speech
>millions defend you out of contrarianism

>>720340093
>without seething
you lost lil nigga

>>720340075
The only thing that even lets his ground slightly have any purchase is the fact that Jetstream Sam has almost no implants whatsoever and would kick almost as many asses as Raiden himself.

He's basically all about individualism but his plan is just a total free for all which would only cause problems.

He had children kidnapped so he could scoop out their brains, put them into robot soldier bodies and force them to fight in a nigh-apocalyptic war.

>>720339270 (OP)
Because you wouldn’t be in his successful, strong group
Anyone who legitimately plays this game and says “wow he makes sense!!” would realistically be one of the first people to get crushed under the boot of someone who’s actually strong

>>720339957
The issue is everybody doesn't get perfect nanomachine bodies. Were he to just somehow make it so everyone could just become as strong as him and then reality is now just an exercise of wills of immortal people....that's kinda fucked but atleast sorta in line with what he wants. But most everyone is normal with a handful of very rich powerful and amoral people having access to super tech and a handle full of cyborg ninjas who are rogue.

>>720339270 (OP)
Anarchy is not a valid system of governance. Okay, all the strong people kill all the people weaker than them. Hope you still have doctors, engineers, electricians, and plumbers after that's done.

The world he's describing is functionally no different from Africa.

>>720340225
Sam has the most OP katana, dumbass

>>720340225
He does still have an expensive, one-of-a-kind, folded over 100000000 times vibro-katana, though.

>>720340345
>Implying that's not what i want
Armstrong is based because he would get rid of me.

>>720340196
he won zoom zoom

>>720339882
>mfw MGR perfectly encapsulated the right wing retards and current state of the US in scremo music

>>720340075
Would his philosophy have weight in a pre-industrial world, or is social Darwinism fundamentally flawed regardless of technology level?

>>720339270 (OP)
might makes right is inherently unfair given the randomness of our births. Half of humans are women and how will children defend themselves? Ignoring these weaknesses is evil as it rejects the core of humanity, our empathy, cooperation and community.

>>720340196
actually he lost. to raiden.

>b-but raiden didn't- ACK

>>720339270 (OP)
I can't
Might does in fact make right

aaaieeee armstrong

>>720340565
>unfair
>evil
lol
lmao

>>720339270 (OP)
he believes freedom is achieved through deterministic power. basically you should be born into the power you "deserve". this is incompatible with the version of america where "every man can control their own destiny". he wants city states and feudalism where 99% of people have no agency, including the girl reading this.

hes no different than a real politician, only out for himself.

>>720340561
The latter. The nedstate of Social Darwinism literally ends with us either trapped in an eternal war forever between ultra rich despots or all of us dead.

>>720339702
Yes. Isn't that why he has no hard feelings when he loses to Raiden?

>>720340565
the US wouldn't exist if might didn't make right. pathetic cope post.

>>720340704
>The nedstate
If Jews can have their own ethnostate, why can't Ned?

>>720340696
Solidus was unironically right and the 'good' version of Armstrong. Anything is justified for patriotism. His folly was assuming America and its ideals were moral good.

>>720340556
that's anybody, dummy. replace country with dogma with politics with any sole excuse to hurt others. Fighting for your ideals is one thing but using ideals as an excuse to exhert power is what is truly evil, that was the whole difference between the sentator and raiden.

>>720339270 (OP)
Didn't he kill all those people? I understand the metaphor, but you can't get away with that by just calling them eggs.

>>720340724
He even says that not only is Raiden justified in doing so, but he's perpetuating his ideology by killing him. It's the same thing Monsoon told him: By killing Monsoon, he imparted a meme onto Raiden that he repeated on Armstrong, who then imparted his ideals onto Raiden.

Raiden leaving his agency and going full-on vigilante was him rejecting both of those and embracing Jetstream Sam's ideals to escape them.

>>720339270 (OP)
he kicked a dog so he deserved to die

>ITT: Retards can't grasp basic nietzschean philosophy
Armstrong's idea of the strong isn't the physically strong, but the strong willed. His idea was to collapse america and the war economy because it had become a bloated half dead monstrosity subsisting on an economy based on constant warfare. His first fight, song and speech are him playing a character of a jingoistic politician. His second fight is who he actually is, he's completely given up on any reform within the system itself and has decided that any possible means to achieve his goals are necessary. He wants to get control of the war economy and the US to crash it for good then let whatever happens happen. He doesn't know what he wants to create on the other side, he just hopes that someone else will rise up to create something better. He views the current system and those who parasite off the war economy as the spiritually weak and wants the spiritually strong to rise up once it's been smashed to pieces to build something entirely new. He's not saying that literal cyborg freaks are the ones who he sees running the world.

>>720339270 (OP)
He's not

>>720340830
Politicians kill a LOT of people.

>>720340931
Ok kojima

>>720340724
The point is that Raiden embodies his ideals as someone who can carve out his own path without having to follow anyone else's rules. So even if Armstrong can't get the whole country to fight for what they believe in, he knows there are people like Raiden who will fight for their own beliefs no matter what. Which in a way vindicates him.

>>720340931
And Raiden was also right in pointing out that armstrong is an outright hypocrite using Desperado's war machine to perpetuate the war economy and accomplish those goals.

>>720339270 (OP)
He's a kike

>>720339270 (OP)
his ideology would feel no empathy for the death of my favorite eceleb

>>720340931
>He doesn't know what he wants to create on the other side, he just hopes that someone else will rise up to create something better.
Armstrong and Marika from Elden Ring are kindred souls

>>720341046
Can't fret over every egg.

>>720341083
pff hahahaha

I don't think burning down the entire country and reverting it to an african tier warlord system is a good idea.

>>720341029
Didn't Kojima have almost no involvement in MGR?

>>720340931
what if you have a strong will but become a statistic due to immigration? guess you should have been born rich and upgraded your body with nanomachines to avoid a random chimp event. fuck off retarded pseud

>>720341093
It's the standard chaosfag mentality. You believe the system is so shit that you'll do anything to tear it down, and hope that whatever inevitably comes up afterwards will undoubtedly be better.
Marika was right though. Fuck the Fingers and Great Will, and especially the hornsent.

>America has become...LE WEAK and CORRUPT
>So lets completely tear it out by the roots and destabilize the entire country and its economy!
>Surely this will turn out fine and there's definitely no historical precedent for this ending up an absolute disaster making things 10 times worse

>>720339270 (OP)
He's evil?

He’s not capital E evil because Right Wing Populism is endemic of severe failures on the Left. The world of MGS is a hellish Leftist dystopian hellscape. We’re watching it happen right now in history. The Left is evil in MGS and it doesn’t praise the right as good, it’s a pretty centrist series overall that is startlingly good at predicting the future.

>>720341214
Don't they have a word for that? Accelerationism?

He claimed might makes right, but he was weak and lost

>"it's survival of the fittest"
>"now excuse me while I use infrastructure I didn't create to obtain food I didn't grow before returning to my house I didn't build in clothes I didn't sew and a car I didn't manufacture to use electricity generated by resources I didn't mine to watch porn I didn't participate in"
If your entire life only happened because thousands of years of labor by millions of people created the cushy systems you thrived in, you didn't survive shit. Go walk naked into the woods and see how long you last.

>>720340931
Armstrong doesn't give a shit about the war economy what are you smoking? His entire "I'm gonna use war as a business to end war as a business" is bullshit he spun up to try and get Raiden on his side.
Raiden pegged him right, he's just an insane retard who wants to larp as a big badass who became strong through endured the trials he's actively subjecting onto others, rather than being a silver spoon baby.

>>720341290
>be armstrong
>believe that the strong deserve to rule
>end up fighting a guy who believes that protecting the weak is better
>lose to a guy who is stronger than you
>only meme you pass onto him is that he should continue fighting injustice with his own hands
uhhhhhhh populismsisters WHAT DO WE DO

>>720340931
>>720341214
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory had the same ending but I feel the antagonist had a better plan about what to do on the other side.

>>720339270 (OP)
He's narrow sighted and too fucking politically correct for his own good, you could've convinced Raiden by replacing "purge the weak" with "gas the jews and weak ass kikes running murrica" but nah, gotta be a Megalomaniac.

>>720341180
America was getting by just fine for a century before it realized it could latch onto the "profiting off other people's wars on the other side of the planet" teat & never let go.

"Might makes right" villains are the worst. It's always nonsensical pseudointellectual bullshit that could easily be disproved by sophomore-level arguments. And the worst part is that when you kill them they're always smug like "heh, thanks for proving me right, buddy!" It's Joker-tier pseudointellectualism. Apollyon from For Honor is probably the worst example. Such a lazy and uninteresting villain archetype

>>720341521
>ok then let's put the brakes on the war eco-
>NOPE GOTTA UPROOT THE WHOLE THING, BUT ONLY AFTER I BECOME NEAR INVINCIBLE WITH AN ARMY OF CYBORGS I PLUCKED FROM THE STREETS MAKING ME THE DEFACTO WARLORD KING
No.

>>720341457
Fighting his own wars is the only thing he wanted to impart onto Raiden so he won.

Fighting his own wars is the reason he scouted Jetstream Sam to begin with: He liked Sam, he thought Sam was the personification of everything he believed in

>>720341437
>literally tells you he wants to obliterate the US in its current form and finally make the war economy crumble now that the patriots AI isn't running the show anymore
>Is glad in death that Raiden will walk his own path to fight against the war economy and the inherent failures of the system in his own way
I can't imagine being this retarded to miss obvious story beats like this.

I don't have to explain, you let the rifle bullet from 200 feet away do the talking.
Personally, I think Mr. 5.56 has a great rebuttal to Mr. Carotid artery on the violence in Inner Cities.

>>720339704
Unfathomably based.
Reminder that if you have money and I have a gun, I have your money.

>>720341590
Apollyon isn't "might makes right", Apollyon is "hard times create strong people" so she wanted times to be hard forever.

>>720341684
Armstrong would definitely approve of that solution to the 24/7 stream of e-celebrity bullshit

>>720340521
>he
nice self report

>>720341737
HE PLAYED COLLEGE BALL Y'KNOW.

>>720341804
At some cushy ivy-league school

>>720341626
>implying armstrong wants to be king of it all once its all done
If you didn't catch on to the fact that he's ultimately self aware and self loathing then I don't know what to tell you. He doesn't refer to "The Strong" as we, he says they. He's saying someone else will rise up from the chaos to seize control and build something new from the ashes. He wants to die, but he also wants this war economy to end. He could dismantle desperado, but someone else would take their place. Its what sam ran into killing drug dealers, its a systemic issue.

>>720341632
You shouldn't trust the words of a someone who lied the entire game, especially when his actions as the owner of a PMC made to stir shit up.
If he actually believed what he was saying, he wouldn't have destabilized the African country in the start of the game among various other things. He is a terrorist and a narcissist with zero belief in the greater good.

>>720341861
People forget the reason Sam lost is because he only attacks the symptoms of every problem he faces.
Drug dealers in Brazil? Better attack the lower parts until all of its dealers are in boxes
Desperado Harvesting brains? Better go to their corporate HQ and start slicing low-level employees to ribbons
Armstrong trying to crush me with his bare hands? Better attack his arms.
Raiden dismantling my new employer? Better attack Raiden

He is the personification of having raw anger but misdirecting it at the wrong targets.

>>720341457
whether raiden wins or loses, armstrong was right either way

He was only half right

>>720339419
why would the cyber bodyguards not just kill the rich person and take their money?
how is wealth not a legitimate form of strength if it can be directly transformed into personal strength?

>>720341474
>Sam the government is... Le Bad
>So that's you should work with me to help Japan start World War 3

>>720339270 (OP)
His view is presented like an isolationist one, yet it regularly involves fucking over even small African nations and preventing them from having any of the benefits that Armstrong claims he wants America to have. Armstrong ultimately wants America to be the center of the world, and perhaps the only place in the world so as to prevent even a hypothetical outside change.

>>720339270 (OP)
I never played this game but I still love that "nanomachines, son" quote so for me he isn't evil because he is based simple as.

>>720340075
Raiden was an african child soldier, literally the poorest of the poor, and became the strongest person on the planet

>>720341861
Ah yes, he secretly wants to die and never intended to become the ruler. That's why he made his army of cyborg soldiers built from snatching kids off the street and scooping their brains, and juiced himself up to insane degrees.
This is a ridiculous line of thinking.

>>720339270 (OP)
he was right

>>720342070
>why would the cyber bodyguards not just kill the rich person and take their money?
They're kind of stuck inside of a big machine that is only using their brain input to move around. Rich person pushes a button and all of the slave-brains in jars immediately lose the ability to fight back.

Armstrong's hypocrisy extends to them as well because the only way Desperado was breaking even at making cyborg soldiers was to practically enslave children from birth and give them zero freedom about which wars they fought.

>>720339270 (OP)
The only reason he wants anarchy is because he knows he's strong enough to be the one bashing heads in instead of having his own head bashed in.

>>720341995
He's telling Raiden all this shit for the same reason he tells Sam and gives him a job. He views him as someone he can speak honestly to and level with. He dusts raiden off and embraces him because he sincerely thinks Raiden understands him and what he wants to do in the long term by breaking up the US. He's playing a character the entire time during the first fight, he finally feels he can drop it and speak plainly to Raiden as someone he respects. He views Raiden as the type of person who could succeed where he fails and build something new via his own force of will.

>>720342113
And he learned a terribly leftist thing called empathy. He became strong and decided to use his strength to help make a world where no one has to suffer the way he did. He thought of others, not himself.

>>720342150
>They're kind of stuck inside of a big machine that is only using their brain input to move around
that was only the child soldiers, everyone else is just a cyborg

>>720342095
It's more like

>Sam.. our web of alliances is.. le stupid
>Literally all of America's enemies would fold in a day if we took the gloves off, even a little
>So just do it, Sam.

He was dumb thinking Sam would ever go along with that.

>>720342191
And it fucking works since Raiden literally becomes Armstrong's successor, suit and all

>>720342113
Raiden was able to serial murder people in africa with a knife then got adopted by anime super soldiers to be top special forces in the United States, after which he was given top of the line cyborg augmentations free of charge for political purposes. He was strong in his natural environment but also retardedly lucky in keeping up with the changing times of the metal gear universe.

>>720341732
>Apollyon is "hard times create strong people" so she wanted times to be hard forever.
Which is the stupidest motivation ever. I know she's the villain and she's supposed to be wrong, but a villain with a retarded motivation is distracting. That's why a lot of people can't take Thanos seriously. Not only is he wrong but he's so wrong that he's downright stupid

>>720339270 (OP)
>survival of the fittest
Nobody on /v/ is the "fittest".

>>720342204
Yes and? If raiden didn't have strength to enforce his will his sense of noblesse oblige would be meaningless. Violence still remains the ultimate authority, raiden simply has a different outlook on how that authority should be wielded.

>>720340829
When we do its a good thing chud

>>720342121
It isn't if you actually pay attention to what he's saying and how incredibly frustrated he is with the United States and the war economy left over from the patriots. I swear the inability to understand any of this must be an ESL thing.

>>720342258
>Not only is he wrong but he's so wrong that he's downright stupid
You can go even wronger than that

>>720342258
>Which is the stupidest motivation ever.
I don't know, man, a lot of young people these days seem to follow her exact line of thinking.

>>720341590
>could easily be disproved by sophomore-level arguments
How would you disprove it?

>>720342170
He's also only strong enough to do that because of his own capitalistic advantage from before his ideal world, too, which is a big factor in him being completely full of shit. He can't enact anarchy without... being vastly ahead thanks to the capitalistic system.

>>720339419
The strong are the common man while the weak are the business fatcats in charge but people on the internet thinks hes a talking about literal SMT chaos type autism

>>720342239
I really don't understand how /v/ fails to understand that Armstrong is ultimately a tragic villain who does what he does in hopes of bringing about change. Is he a good person by any measure? No. If he were then he wouldn't be the villain. The entire reason he has such cultural staying power is because he's ultimately right, he's just completely mad now and willing to create change by doing literally anything short of detonating nukes without regard of the consequences.

Why didn't he fight against GW and the proxy AIs?

>>720342262
Its telling that no one here can come to a clear consensus on exactly what he means by the strong

>>720342350
Actions speak louder than words. He can give a 15 minute speech about whatever the fuck he wants to, it doesn't change that HIS pmc actively starts and engages in the pointless wars that he proclaims to want to end, it doesn't change that he was building an army of kidnapped child soldiers in cyborg bodies, completely frying their brain to do nothing but violence, and it doesn't change all the other shit he does.
Armstrong isn't this fucking martyr figure trying his best to end a corrupt system, he is actively trying to replace the corrupt system with his own.

>>720342257
I'm not going to bother going through the extremely long laundry list of metal gear characters who were the most normal or disadvantaged fuckers on the battlefield to pull through and become the toppest tier operators (and thus most lethal people) of their time. Instead i'm just going to say raiden got to be strongest on the planet from the most disadvantageous start possible because he had a sheer, murderous willpower to push through and his mere existence vindicates at least part of Armstrong's argument (which armstrong himself recognizes). It doesn't just boil down to
>muh rich people will win
because rich fucks will not have the same drive to kill and win as some 8 year old crack addict with a knife which is precisely why they try to hide behind mercenaries who do have that drive but aren't willing to throw their lives away for someone else's sake and a paycheck.

>says a bunch of shit so vague you can literally interpret it to fit your personal life perfectly where you will benefit the most
He's an excellent spokesperson.

>>720342425
Well I referred to it as "might makes right" villains but I guess I meant "war is good" villains. It's pretty obvious why war isn't good purely on a logical basis, no morals needed. You can't have a strong, functioning, stable society and economy when everyone is being constantly killed and terrorized. An empire is built on trust and cooperation. The most ruthless medieval warlord would've recognized the practicality of keeping war to a minimum. War is expensive

>>720342476
Thank you for actually paying attention to the story. Blows my mind people think he wants ancap paradise or full blown violent anarchy 24/7 when he lays what he wants out for you. He wants people like Raiden who are strong willed enough to survive and thrive to no longer be shackled by the system so that they can finally create something new in its place.

>>720341829
Try University of Texas. Coulda gone pro if I didnt join the navy. Im not one of those beltway pansies. I could break the president in two with my bare hands

>>720342616
>You can't have a strong, functioning, stable society and economy when everyone is being constantly killed and terrorized
Which is precisely why you need regular violence against the thugs and sociopaths who crop up and try to abuse society's good nature.

>>720342239
Yes and no, Raiden's arc is basically "no more pussy shit, shut up or put up. You can't play by the rules of an unjust world hoping they'll get the picture" he's not carrying on the idea of "collapse the government and let god sort it out" but rather he'll cut down evil where he sees it rather than worrying if he has the right to do it.

>>720342298
Raiden's different outlook is why Armstrong claiming him as an ideological successor with his heart in Raiden's hands is probably the most pathetic uttering of any character in all of Metal Gear, alongside the guys with IBS

Armstrong HAS no ideology, he believes the act of mass moving mass is profound, very pointedly none of the Winds of Destruction actually have anything to say about Armstrong's ideals (and Mistral is in love with him and judges Raiden for having differing ideals!) and Sam in particular finds him annoying, because he has no ideology he claims that his own death enacted to make him FUCKING STOP TRYING TO PLUNGE THE WORLD INTO CHAOS is an ideological victory

He is presented as and remains to the last a navel-gazing politician who doesn't write his own speeches

>>720342603
Most of those people were assets of governments, corporations, and shadow governments that owned corporations. That's sort of the point of a lot of Metal Gear, these people might be powerful but they're tools struggling to realize their own will typically dying the moment they do.

>>720342676
Sure. Lawful evil. Chaotic evil villains are very easy to fuck up. Chaotic evil villains really only work as low-functioning nihilistic degenerate serial killers. Trying to give them any sort of philosophy or world-ending capabilities rarely works

>>720339270 (OP)
He calls Raiden the personification of his ideals which in is own words is someone who beats up people they don't like.

>>720342579
>he is actively trying to replace the corrupt system with his own.
>wipe the slate clean, burn it down!
>And from the ashes a new america will be born
>the weak will be purged and the strong will survive
>they'll make america great again
at no point in this speech does he imply he wants power post collapse and he instead alludes that he wants people like Raiden to become the ones to take control and build something new. If he wasn't evil while doing all this shit, he wouldn't be the villain. You don't have to agree with everything he does or says to acknowledge that he has solid points.

>>720339270 (OP)
Why is snake never mentioned in metal gear rising?

>>720342816
Forgot pic

>>720342028
Everyone here knows enforcing vigilante justice as a cool robo ninja is cool else you wouldn't be playing the fucking game. No one's disagreeing with that part in particular

>>720339270 (OP)
He's a warmongering capitalist

>>720342838
>at no point in this speech does he imply he wants power post collapse
My brother in Christ he is ranting about power and then roid-rages on nanomachines twenty seconds later

>>720339270 (OP)
>evil
He's not evil, he is simply wrong.
And the evidence for this is quite simple, he lost. If he was right, he'd win.
There is nothing more to say on the matter.

>>720342710
>he believes the act of mass moving mass is profound
In a world constantly distracted and hamstrung by ridiculous bullshit, incapable of even prosecuting criminals without it turning into a circus act, going back to the bare basics of violence and its everyday applications is substantial.
>>720342787
Most of those people became elevated assets only after they had proven themselves to be worthy of the investment. And i recognize part of the theme is that as they're invested in they sacrifice their individualism, that's sam entire character, but some of those people still wholeheartedly believe in whatever they're serving and doesn't change the fact that they're the "strongest" people on the planet coming out of nowhere.

>>720342838
>at no point in this speech does he imply he wants power post collapse
His actions sure as fuck do.

>>720339270 (OP)
He's based and did nothing wrong same as sundowner
We need more people who are pro war in this world

>>720342904
Not neccessarily. He's all on in might makes right so if he's the unkillable uberman then he'd rule. But if someone come along and kills him, he's 100% okay with that.

>>720342878
Cool, you still just side stepped that his stated plan is to collapse the system when he seizes power and then let those of strong will take control as they will in hopes of creating a better america. How are you failing to grasp this?

>>720342839
He did but nobody cares for some old fart and his shitty story
Metal gear peaked with rising and wish we got more of this

>>720342936
I think war gets a bad reputation and it's very important as an outlet for international tensions. Sundowner was right in his beliefs, even if his wording was a little clumsy.
The goos old days after 9/11 indeed.

>>720342070
>how is wealth not a legitimate form of strength if it can be directly transformed into personal strength?
Because that goes against Armstrong's rant about people using their own two hands to carve their own path and how 'limp wristed politicians' should be purged.

>>720342996
>side stepped that his stated plan
Guy who believes his mom disappeared when she covered her face with her hands

>>720342476
>are the business fatcats in charge
And how is harvesting children brains going to get rid of these business fat cats?

>>720343024
This is only necessary in subhuman retard countries

>>720343135
Theming-wise Armstrong is larping FUCKING HARD as Solidus Snake

>>720343089
He has no real reason to lie at that point and is speaking to Raiden as someone he legitimately respects and views as the model for who he wants to shape society. He views Raiden as the man of action he could never actually be and thus hopes to sway him to his cause. This is what I get for arguing with thirdies, completely unable to understand any subtext or anything not immediately obvious.

>>720342993
>not necessarily
Anon, tell me plainly, what do you think these are for? What do you think his gigantic amount of weaponry, including "herds" of metal gear excelsus, are for?

>>720342839
Raiden mentions him to Kevin and talks about how Snake died.

>>720342882
>If he was right, he'd win
No, it just means Raiden mightier than him. He's still right though.

>>720343059
If you're willing to burn your own wealth to transform yourself into a pinnacle of strength are you still a "limp-wristed politician"? The limp-wrists are hiring body guards who will dump their ass the second the money stops being worth the risk. Armstrong modified himself specifically so he could put himself directly into the fray when he needs to.
Just because a king is in bright, shiny armor doesn't mean he's not still risking his life when he wades into battle next to his subordinates

>>720343258
He has plenty of reason to lie, in fact he keeps lying in his fight about giving up the war and just wanting Raiden to die.
>arguing with thirdies
You would be defeated by peek-a-boo on the liar scale and then talk about subtext.

Maybe Armstrong is actually a bullshitter who really does just wants capital and votes

Don't know why anyone would ride Armstrong's dick when Raiden dismantled that retard right away.

He's just another comfortable rich asshole who read "HARD TIMES CREATE STRONG MEN" and though "damn...true". He loves the idea of people having to fight for their life and ideals because he grew up in a system where he didn't have to. He wants the "strongest" to win while he injected himself with state of the art nanomachines to become superhuman. No shit he loves the idea of a world where the deck is stacked in his favor, even if he doesn't want to admit it is; he's delusional at best or wholly dishonest at worst.

>>720343376
>Raiden refuses him and threatens to stop his plans to crash the system
>Alright guess I need to kill him then if he wont see reason
>Well golly gee doesn't that make him a hypocrite?
The point just flew over your house

>>720342653
DONT FUCK WITH THIS SENATOR

Raiden grew up in the world Armstrong (a cushy rich first-world asshole) is trying to create (a wartorn lawless shithole). I'm pretty sure Raiden is more qualified than Armstrong

>>720343386
But he has a dream

>>720343367
>Just because a king is in bright, shiny armor doesn't mean he's not still risking his life when he wades into battle next to his subordinates
So this doesn't apply to Armstrong, since he only came out of hiding once all his subordinates were dead.

>>720343435
>He's just another comfortable rich asshole who read "HARD TIMES CREATE STRONG MEN" and though "damn...true". He loves the idea of people having to fight for their life and ideals because he grew up in a system where he didn't have to
That's why Raiden is the perfect foil for him Raiden actually lived through the hard times that created his strong self Armstrong came to adore so much, but living through it and fantasizing about it are two completely different things.

>>720343479
OK he's telling the truth when he doesn't directly say he wants to be king of the apocalypse, he doesn't covet power when transforming into a musclebound demigod, these two things have no direct correlation despite coming from the same person, and he DEFINITELY doesn't abandon his flimsy ideals for temporary gratification when fighting Raiden

I think there is a platonic ideal of Armstrong that nobody else is following being argued here if his word is to be taken at face-value only at specific points you bullshit artist

>>720343435
>He's just another comfortable rich asshole who read "HARD TIMES CREATE STRONG MEN"
If that were the case right he would've broken down one Raiden started winng. But he didn't. He respected Raiden's strnegth and passed on his will.
>>720343592
That's basically what happens at the end of the game no?

>>720340635
Acting on unfairness for personal gain at the cost of our species is evil, yes.

>>720339270 (OP)
he left a trail of bodies and shattered lives across 3 continents. Even if in the context of metal gear his goals where noble justice demands he die for his actions.
However I think the reason hes such an enduring character is that he is 100% legit and dedicated to his cause. Even when Raiden is ripping out his heart his response is hopeful, for Raiden to inherit his will and bring about the lasting change he wanted to see. A lesser character would have been begging for mercy in that moment but Armstrong was dedicated and charismatic right to the end.

>>720340729
How does that make armstrong not evil? Did you misunderstand the OP?

>>720339270 (OP)
Survival of the fittest is cool until you realize the world stage isn't a boxing arena, and some dickass rogue will stab in you the back when you're not paying attention, they won't even be the fittest either, they'll be some shrimpdick who plays gachaslop

>>720339270 (OP)
He's a senator

>>720343621
Desperado was Sundowner's dog, Armstrong just played with it when it benefitted him. If you want that is a critique of his philosophy that he doesn't have an genuine circle of trusted friends and allies who are with him from the ground floor but one he's attempting to rectify with Sam and Raiden. But it's pretty obvious he doesn't care about the war profiteering and actively wants it gone once he's done using it.

>>720342070
>Think about going rogue
>Your cyborg body shuts down and you(brain) gets flushed down the toilet

>>720343668
>If that were the case right he would've broken down one Raiden started winng. But he didn't. He respected Raiden's strnegth and passed on his will.

Unironically "If you let your enemies kill you, you win.", it's circular nonsense logic

>>720343738
It only worked in stone age
Now its survival of the richest

>>720340931
>>He doesn't know what he wants to create on the other side, he just hopes that someone else will rise up to create something better.
That just strikes me as dementedly nihilistic. Entropic even, which honestly probably is a gestating political ideology at present (Kojima's scary prescience at play and all) - a political belief in just destruction for destruction's sake and the idea that it'll cleanse and reset the game.

I don't disagree with your take, just with armstrong's philosophy there. "Burn it all down and we'll make something better I dunno what lol". Entropism as an actual ideology. Nigga I don't fucking like how this is actually really falling perfectly into place and is an active ideology. I know Al-Qaeda had 'management of savagery' but they at least had some conception of what you'd build in the chaos. Now we got people just going
>burn it all down and hope for the best

>>720343796
if you don't control your own body then your strength never really was yours was it? If you were actually strong enough you'd find a way to circumvent that vassalization through your own means and take command of your own fate, wouldn't you?

>>720343792
>Desperado was Sundowner's dog, Armstrong just played with it when it benefitted him.
Desperado was a front for World Marshal of which Armstrong is CEO, this is the crux of the second act

>>720343841
>It only worked in stone age
Even then, I feel like some weak goober could slit the biggest dude's throat in his sleep

>>720343862
>I'm using war as business to end war as a business

>>720339270 (OP)
His plan would've caused nothing more than complete balkanization of the country he wishes to fix and PMC civil wars. It doesn't matter how "strong" one is if a unified effort from a force of relatively equal strength like say a rival country can just come in and take over everything once their opposition beats themselves into exhaustion. There was a reason that Snake and co. didn't completely shut down the Patriot AI when they had the chance in MGS4

>>720343801
He didn't let Raiden kill him. He put up his best fight and lost. Which is in line with his ideals.

>>720343841
Wouldn't "richest" and "fittest" be the same thing in a world that uses money?

>>720343903
>i'm up to the shoulders in it but uhhhhh i don't believe it haha *toes child-soldier brain out of view*

>Dude this villain be spitting fr fr, he's not really a bad guy if think about what he says
>Villain: Uh.... We live is a society (Bottom Text) so uh.... that's why I should be allowed to kill people lmao

>>720343738
That's what the social darwinists have never picked up on. They attribute fitness to virtue - the most beautiful, the strongest, the smartest, the most noble (aristocracy being aristos = the best). Fucking vermin like roaches and rats are vastly more fit evolutionarily than le lion or le wolf. Then look at the similar situation with certain human groups with fantastic fertility rates up against the ones who are slow marching into the grave.

Look around you, it would be like this but more severe.

>>720343861
Yes, they're slaves and cannot rebel against their owners

>>720339270 (OP)
He's a rare example of being 100% correct for all the wrong reasons.

>>720343930
That's the ultimate paradox of white supremacy.
>White men are le master race, kikes are le untermensch!
>Well if Jews supposedly rule the world, wouldn't that make them the master race?
>...N-Not like that!!
The truth is, honor is a meme. That's why survival of the fittest doesn't work. Life is a game full of cheaters you can't do anything about

>an anon ITT actually thinks Armstrong's plan was to give up his power after he completely dismantles society under the guise of making things better for the strong (common) man currently burdened by bureaucracy
Hmmmmmmm.....

>>720344079
>White men are le master race, kikes are le untermensch!
Said nobody ever
Not even Hitler
Seething yids are my favorite posts to read on 4chan

Nanomachines son

>>720339270 (OP)
He took children's brains

>>720343682
>evil
this matters about as much as 'unfair'.

>>720344289
>Hitler didn't say Jews are the untermensch
Uhhhh...

>>720344289
>Not even Hitler
what?

I've read literally every post in this thread and yet I don't think I've learned much. Am I retarded? Is there something wrong with my brain?

>say a bunch of vague bullshit to frustrated people
>attribute your vague bullshit to universally accepted as good attributes such as "strength" and "will"
>anybody can now interpret your stance as quite literally anything they want that will benefit them and will assume that's what you meant
How to win elections.

>>720344369
>>720344347
Correct
Read Mein Kampf and get it from the horses' mouth instead of from Professor Schlomo of Holocaust Remembrance class 09
The idea that das whiten isht dere mastutaa raceu is basically Jewish fiction. They just hate being told that whites don't want them to be parasites leeching off the good will and high trust societies whites establish.

>>720339492
you mean like the orange cheeto in chief

>>720344518
It's funny that so many people say that Armstrong predicted Trump, when its literally just japs making fun of how American elections always work.

>HOPE

>>720344556
What about all that stuff about being the ubermensch?

>>720344624
Again, read Mein Kampf.
>I don't wanna
Okay, then accept that your entire world view has been dictated to you by seething Jews.

>>720344556
>Read Mein Kampf
No I'll stick with his obsession of the "aryan" race in his ascension to power up until his suicide in a bunker thanks

>>720344675
Even if so, that the Nazis didn't believe in white supremacy, saying "no one ever said that whites are the master race" is completely retarded. There are obviously tons of people who believe that, even if the Nazis weren't one of them

>>720339270 (OP)
Nanomachines. It’s an inherently evil concept

>>720344745
>I'll stick with Jewish fanfiction
Okay you do you goy.

>>720344754
Point them out then, posting a quotation of their own words.
What you're about to do is find a quote either by a complete rando with no political pull or followers, or you're going to go construe "white people deserve a homeland" as "omg they want to kill all the brown people!11!1"
I'll say this, apparently brown people think whites are the master race, cuz sure as shit aint nobody border hopping into fucking Africa, lmao.

>>720344745
>suicide in a bunker
Show me a body, and not that babushka the soviets pretended was a man
Oh wait, they used the same magical body dissolver on him that they used on the six million so that there are no traces anywhere, I forgot. Just like how they totally killed Osama then dropped him in a closed casket into the ocean

>>720344771
Das right, biological modifications are the real ubermenschian way. Fuck machines ain't no doktor turning off my second heart with a button.

>>720344923
>I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. - Abraham Lincoln
>I do not admit for instance that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race or at any rate a more worldly-wise race has come in and taken their place. - Winston Churchill
And these were the GOOD guys. Imagine what the bad guys said about non-whites

>actually the nazis didn't hate jews
The shit I read on here.

LIKE THE GOOD OL' DAYS AFTER 9/11
How are you all doing?

>>720339419
But he made himself the strongest, and didn't bitch when Raiden beat him, he recognized that Raiden was stronger and so he deserved to win and make the decisions. He was true to his beliefs 100%

>>720345174
Having some fun now that you hit me with that
Almost makes up for waging

>>720345134
>Literally just "I don't think our children should be ruled by seething browns" and "yeah they got conquered, get good"
So you got nothing, got it.

>>720345136
Who are you quoting? Are you the seething Jew that got btfo'd and now needs to pretend to be a random third party who just so happens to be parroting his every talking point?

>>720345273
>They didn't say that whites are superior, they just... explicitly stated, word-for-word, that whites are superior!
This isn't even goalposting moving anymore. You just removed the goalpost from the game entirely

>>720345353
>They didn't say that whites are superior
Correct. Are you ESL? Because not even Churchill's quote states that whites are le master race. He stated that they got conquered by whites, and are self evidently better than them due to that fact, because a victor is by definition in some way superior to the loser. Not at all what you're trying to indicate, ie that whites are some universally better species than non-whites.

>>720345465
>Whites aren't superior, they're only self-evidently superior
Semantics. Obviously white supremacists don't think they're superior for no reason

>>720345221
>But he made himself the strongest

With connections and money. If that is what it means to become "strong", then we are already living in the world Armstrong won. The strong are just currently winning

>>720341590
>>720342357
*sigh* these villains are outcome of you decades of consooming jewwoodslops but never reading books
I wish kojima die of pure cancer

>>720339270 (OP)
He ruined Vince Russo's career.

>>720345174
What a great day today turned out to be

>>720339270 (OP)
Gave me unrealistic body goals

>>720345587
Oh interesting! Because a very basic premise of the "le master race" argument is the implication that whites have no basis for claiming superiority. But now you're saying they actually do?

>>720345780
>Because a very basic premise of the "le master race" argument is the implication that whites have no basis for claiming superiority
What the fuck are you talking about? Whoever said that? You are literally making shit up

>>720345862
How am I making shit up? The very utterance of "the master race" indicates mockery. It has for basically the entirety of the its existence in public media, and pretending that it doesn't is asinine.
But hey let's not put words in your mouth. Simple question: Do you think whites have claim to superiority over non-white races? Yes or no, go.

>>720342204
This. Altruism is pure delusion, and self destructive behavior. A good way to end up dead more sooner than later.

>>720345991
>Do you think whites have claim to superiority over non-white races?
Obviously. They've won every major war, have the most prosperous countries, invented space travel and antibiotics. It's self-evident, as you said
>The very utterance of "the master race" indicates mockery.
Maybe the term master race is never used unironically anymore, but "whites are the master race" is just a synonym for white supremacy, and to say that no politically significant person has EVER held the position of white supremacy in all of history is just the epitome of terminally online /pol/ schizo lies

>>720346262
>Whites are superior, but you can't say they are, because that'd be white supremacy, which is wrong, even though it's self evidently correct
Man I am just not even following what your actual point anymore

>>720346512
My original point is that survival of the fittest/might makes right doesn't work, because the truth is that the most underhanded always win, not the strongest. A coward will always slit the alpha's throat in his sleep, a Jew will always undermine the white man

>>720344250
>to give up his power
He completely accepts when raiden kills him even before his plan goes off, if someone takes his head afterwards to take his position he'd be okay with it.

He's not evil. He's batshit insane.

>>720339882
That's when he's still mask on, if anything it represents everything he hates.

>>720346776
That doesn't mean his plan was to always be a selfless martyr like the anon before was saying.

>>720344616
I think HOPE is a little more distant from Armstrong than I AM YOUR VENGEANCE

>>720347297
Of course it wasn't but its also unlikely he expects the power he holds at the beginning of his plan to matter at all by the end of it. He wants to basically dismantle the fed and all it's authority. It's not self-sacrifice its just built in redundancy

>>720340931
>Collapse America
>It gets conquered by foreign powers
Woaw...

>>720347558
What foreign powers even exist in the metal gear universe? I'm pretty sure all the warring PMCs have undermined pretty much any viable challenger for global suzerain. Guys like desperado deliberately destabilized up and comers so they could profit off the instability

the thing with these "did nothing wrong" villains who have a goal is that most of the time they're fucking hypocrites and don't actually care about that goal
the idea Armstrong talks about isn't necessarily wrong and maybe he wouldn't be evil if he was actually pursuing that, but in reality he's just another evil greedy politician. this guy kidnapped thousands of children to put their brains in jars

>>720346014
And yet you follow the faith of a poor carpenter who espoused nothing but that.

>>720339270 (OP)
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, anon

>>720348049
That carpenter whipped people for committing usury in a temple

>>720348037
>villain kinda has a point
>instead of engaging critically with his stance, just make him comically evil for some other, unrelated reason
why do video game writers keep doing this?

>>720339270 (OP)
His ideology is filled to the brim with self-contradiction, with the only consistency being the spread of chaos and destruction.

>>720348703
Because most video game writers are shit and neither want to actually engage with opposing view points nor admit how the flawed the modern globalist liberal democratic shit actually is because then it would be admitting that traditions were more functional.

>>720348703
it's a video game, you're supposed to fight the evil villain, not have philosophical or political discussions with him

>>720339882
Thats still mask on. Notice how Armstrong fights with a gear and not personally

Meanwhile IRL:
>I HAVE A DREAM
>pussied out
>either dead or chilling somewhere safe

>>720343903
>I use capital to end capitalism

>>720349689
>>capitalism

>>720339270 (OP)
He is batshit insane.

>>720339270 (OP)
He's american

>>720341093
Marika didn't care if the universe was destroyed so long as the Elden Beast was. Armstrong expects there to be something if he succeeds at his plan.

the good old days are here at last

>>720341046
He is, but it supports his "any means necessary" point. He is basically an accelerationist as he doesn't see anything good coming out of the current system and leaders.

>>720339608
That's based though?

>>720339608
they were mexican, he was providing them with a decent job

>>720340339
>>720342121
>>720348037
>muh abandoned orphans living on the street
Virtue signallers like you goofs make me sick. You only started caring about them when they're being turned into cyborgs that could kill you.

People only like armstrong because they're closeted fags who can't help but open up their metaphorical assholes for a large muscular man

>>720352197
The big problem with Armstrong is he's got the silverspoon in his mouth and wants to tear down the very system that gave him all his power and influence, while telling all the poor and unlucky people they're fucked.
>But Raiden!
He's essentially a lottery winner and sharpshooter fallacy for Armstrong, yes someone rose up, but it creates a massive zero sum game.

>>720356405
That's really a big fucking problem, it's better if they'll try to survive on their own rather than being rised as living weapond in PMC. It's not even remotely the same that Armstrong wants.

>>720341046
>And Raiden was also right
yes
that's why the song against armstrong goes
YOU WERE JUST LIKE ME
and
BUT MAYBE WERE BOTH THE SAAAAAAAAAAAAMEEEEEEEEE
did none of you guys play the game?

>>720356737
The song is retarded. Armstrong was wrong and a retard who glorified existences he didn't comprehend. He's like the subhuman rightoid grifters who adhere to made up ideas of strength and masculinity, worshipping notions like effort, merit and the like while being born among the 1% in the richest country in the world. He never worked for his power and the game makes it clear. Raiden calls him out on his bullshit immediately. It's like Sam who fooled himself into thinking he wanted to do good for society but he was just a fighting autist driven by revenge

>>720339270 (OP)
He wouldn't share his jolly ranchers with me, fuck that dude.

>>720345221
Being true to your beliefs doesn't make them any less retarded

>>720339270 (OP)
Only an evil person would approve the creation of combo dwarf gekkos.

>>720340556
Right wingers don't ruin your career if you don't want to bake a cake for a faggot couple THO

also videogames

>>720339270 (OP)
honestly i don't think he's evil, i just think he's stupid
>i bully people because i can get away with it
>might makes right
>i'm the king of the jungle
>if people die under my rule then they were never meant to exist
>survival of the fittest above all
>*gets mogged by a cyborg twink*
like come on, man
you should have seen this coming
wafflestomping shitters doesn't make you the man, you need to prove yourself against the best, which he horribly failed at

>>720358630
true, he should have seen this coming
his defeat was an excellent warning against the dangers of hubris, ignorance, arrogance
there is always a way for you to fail
always be humble

>>720339882
the point of that song is it's what Raiden *thinks* Armstrong wants and believes, but over the course of the fight he realizes Armstrong is the exact opposite of all of that and that this is actually what he's fighting *against*
Standing Here is the actually genuine one

>>720358093
>no, the video game was wrong, character was actually like *current boogeyman*

>>720358674
wow, right wingers are a bunch of limp dicked faggots then

>Retards in this thread thinking his philosophy and ambitions are mirroring the real world 1 for 1, not taking into account what the patriots did and how the AI was controlling humanity/war economy.
He is a natural reaction to that degree of control.

>>720339270 (OP)
Armstrong's entire idea of "might makes right" falls apart when might equates capital.
It's the kind of plan that works when everyone has access to the same resources (think the stone age and having access to a big stick to kill rivals), but in a complex society with an actual economy "might" inherently is not available at all to the majority of the population.


>>720359046
Being a vile and slimy dishonest creature isn't going to convince anybody to switch to your beliefs.
I know you're projecting your own desires, aka you think being a complete "gotcha" jackass is the mark of intelligence, but that's not how it actually works and you just end up looking disgusting and right in the middle of the bell-curve.

>>720339270 (OP)
he's not fretting about the eggs

>>720359378
>but in a complex society with an actual economy "might" inherently is not available at all to the majority of the population.
he'd probably say some "bootstraps" bullshit and tell you it's a skill issue
>I KNOW A GUY WHO MADE TEN TRILLION DOLLARS SCAMMING VENTURE CAPITALISTS BY HIRING ESCORTS TO POSE AS FOUNDERS AND SUCK THEM OFF FOR EASY FUNDING
>I'D MAKE HER MEMORIZE A BUSINESS PLAN, GAVE HER INVESTORS TO CONTACT, SHE'D FUCK THEM, SECURE A CONTRACT, AND I'D TAKE 90%
>IT'S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD, KID
>GET WITH THE TIMES, ADAPT OR DIE
le heckin rugged individualism

>>720340556
fucking midwit take

>>720339270 (OP)
Because he's an anarchist retard who wants to empower the Military Industrial Complex by allowing them to do anything they want in a total war state

>>720348963
Stfu

>>720356483
Weird self report

>>720359378
>It's the kind of plan that works when everyone has access to the same resources (think the stone age and having access to a big stick to kill rivals), but in a complex society with an actual economy "might" inherently is not available at all to the majority of the population.
Its way, way easier and cheaper to destroy shit/kill someone than it is to protect something/someone. If it wasn't then terrorism wouldn't work. You might be guarded by the strongest, most loyal cyborgs your money could buy but 3 dudes pooled a few weeks wages to homebrew a railgun that turns you inside out that you could never detect. And you're not going to be exerting any influence if you're just sitting in your house 24/7, scared of the bullet that will come when you leave.
The only problem with power imbalance for the weak is organization but modern technology makes complex networks less and less important as the ability to kill shit is pennies on the dollar of surviving shit. This ain't the ancient era where having to buy a new suit of armor to replace a lost one can bankrupt a man so only richfags could be professional soldiers, that bar is low and only getting lower in the metal gear world.

>>720339270 (OP)
Jack is more based and rightwing is the funny thing. Going to war to free children from the progressive elite using thrm as slave labor the way they currently use third world trash as slave labor.

>>720339270 (OP)
he's a politician

>>720358093
The song is sung from Raidens perspective and later he admits Armstrong was sort of right

>>720339270 (OP)
What separates humanity from a wild roving band of animals is cooperation on long-term scales. It is honestly that one advantage our species has had that has made us the Apex species that governs this planet. Long term cooperation.

Our earliest ancestors wouldn't have been able to hunt big-game to exhaustion and bring it back to their village to eat without cooperation. They wouldn't have been able to survive being mauled by a desperate last-act of their prey, like getting a broken leg, a huge gash on their limbs or torso, or simply being cared after once someone became ill and couldn't do the basic necessities like getting water or food.

That advantage has stayed with us throughout the millennia. It is, for every intent and purpose, the shining pinnacle of our species that has kept us alive and well throughout every catastrophe that has befallen this planet since our inception.

To throw all of that away and literally prey on our weaker compatriots on the simple and shortsighted view of "Im better than you" goes so far against the grain of what made us what we are that it becomes a threat to the entirety of our race. Barring sociological, ethical, and philosophical objections here, it's simply a fucking retarded mentality that verges on Mutually Assured Destruction. The whole can not survive without its constituents, nor can the individual survive without it, regardless of the infinite strength afforded to them through technology.

This is braindead mathematics, OP is a faggot, and this discussion is puerile.

>>720368529
Only right in the sense that when your political enemies use violence against you, you must respond in kind and destroy them without mercy. An ancap lolbert like Armstrong is really no different than a libtard commie in needing a helicopter ride.

>>720339270 (OP)
He literally wants the current status quo but even worse. Pay attention to what he actually says

>>720368758
Not reading all that thoughbeit

>>720368816
No he quotes armstrong verbatim after the fight

>>720339270 (OP)
I can't. In fact I agree more with him now than ever before.

>>720339270 (OP)
Nobody can do it

>>720339270 (OP)
Darwinistic worldview is basically how rich already operate, he wouldn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things because the "strong" these days are really just "the rich" and in his universe "rich enough to afford super cybernetics"
Its also not gonna end war as a business, if anything it will exacerbate it because the "strong" will have more to get out of it if given free reign

>>720339270 (OP)
>indiscriminate mass murder and destruction is good because uhhhh whoever survives is LE STRONGEST
But I don't want a ruined world where only LE STRONGEST (i.e. most violent and deadly) are left. I want a peaceful world where I can live in comfort, with people who can produce things that I like. Unironically the "can you manufacture this can?" argument from Mob Psycho. The peaceful, productive people are not a problem that needs to be eradicated.

>>720339270 (OP)
the best thing about it is that raiden agrees with him in the end too

>>720342070
Because the rich person has a way of bringing in more money than the bodyguards could ever earn otherwise.
>Work for rich person
>steady fat paycheck every week
vs.
>Kill rich person
>plunder his house
>get a year's worth of salary in one shot
>but no one will ever hire you again
>no one will ever trust you again
>rich person's family and business partners hire other cyborg killers to hunt you down until the end of time

>>720339270 (OP)
99% of this board would be dead if he had his way

>>720342013
yeah murdering to solve murders is a good idea, even if drugs will comeback in someway

>>720372542
Not me id buy cyber enhancements with my moms credit card

>>720339270 (OP)
He was turned into a villain because he was making too much sense.

>>720342528
he was apart of it? probably got into nanomachine augments once liquid ocelot made a mess in the world

>>720369891
just like p4 adachi he detected the problem correctly but his solution was bad. similar how far left radicals talk about late stage capitalism and then offer communism as a solution.

>>720339882
>y-you s-s-see it's le *head canon* it's what's RAIDEN thinks!!!!!
Kek, Armstrong simps in shambles

freeing everyone means breaking the system from the ground up. he wanted to do it from the top down, which would give time for the big suits to hit the red switch and kill off their slave drones if they don't do what they say, leading to massive wars. he wanted to end wars by having the biggest one go off which isn't really evil, but just not that good of a solution.

>>720372809
>he detected the problem correctly
Not at all. You want to fix your country, exterminate or subjugate the ruling class.

>>720341046
You're only a hypocrite if you have a pretense of morality. The people he's trying to replace are the hypocrites. He's knowingly sacrificing his morality for a greater cause. Armstrong is like an inverse hypocrite, making himself seem evil in the name of something good.
>>720340931
It's just basic Old Yeller logic, "if somebody has to shoot him, it ought to be me".

Dude injected himself with nanomachine so he could always be on top of a dog eat dog world. How's that fair

>>720341694
>Bullet bounces off head
>NANOMACHINES SON

>>720339419
You midwit. The rich are only rich in the current system where they're propped up by billions of consumers and tax payers. If every person took matters into their own hands like Armstrong suggests, the rich would lose all of their income because nobody would work for them anymore. And all their money would be worth shit because you cant buy anything, nobody would take their money to fight for them unless they were strong. People would only fight for themselves or a leader of their choosing, like how Kings in the ancient times used to be. Not rich, not hereditary, not made by the system, just charismatic leaders people naturally flocked to.

>>720339270 (OP)
He is a bitch ass motherfucker who will not back up his claims with a source.

>>720339882
Would you mind taking a quick IQ test? I need to know exactly how dumb you have to be to think this is Armstrong's true philosophy when the game flat out tells you he's only playing by the systems rules until he can break it, literally and symbolically.

>>720340345
This is always projection

>>720340931
They got real mad when you pointed out that their weakness extends too their spirits, too.

>>720339270 (OP)
The ends don't justify the means, but he's cool enough for me to stop caring. Nanomachines son

>>720341684
Not a great rebuttal, just the best that leftists can come up with.

>>720342070
>why would the cyber bodyguards not just kill the rich person and take their money?

>>720341995
What about trusting the intent of the author as manifested in obvious symbols such as
>Armstrong's message pivoting at the same point he pivots from fighting you with a giant war machine to fighting you face to face
>Armstrong tearing Raiden's visor away, clearing his eyes
>The fucking boss music with lyrics the spell it out for you

Why do people act like Raiden learned something from Armstrong? He didn't learn shit. He was already fighting for what he believed in ever since the end of MGS2 when Snake told him to do that.

>>720339270 (OP)
Nanomachines

>>720339270 (OP)
That weeb reception area was cool as fuck.

>>720342204
>to help make a world where no one has to suffer the way he did.
Which is a point of hypocrisy that the game points out and Raiden even admits. He's not trying to be charitable or save the world, he's trying to stop what happened to him from happening again.
>He thought of others, not himself.
Wrong. He's thinking exactly about himself, what he himself suffered. The whole game is his, you know, REVENGEANCE against his upbringing as a child soldier. It's crazy that leftists could worship at the altar of emotions for so long yet have zero understanding of them.

>>720342682
But he's locked onto Armstrong's target now. His last words in the game are a repitition of Armstrong's indictment of the system he wanted to destroy.

>>720339270 (OP)
The jews are winning right now and it makes /vpol/ seethe constantly for the last 15 years + over a century or more of Jewish domination. Just because they aren't using Nanomachines doesn't mean anything, Armstrong's America is based on Might is Right and the weak shouldn't deserve to live unless they are mighty. In the real world, money is might.

>>720342710
Very stupid. Mistral and Sam are explictly on board with Armstrong's ideals. That they don't waste time laying them out means nothing. You are obviously triggered.

So what was Armstrong planning on doing if Raiden was just uploading the footage of everything he saw the whole game? The child brain farms alone would make him unelectable.

>>720345634
Yeah but they don't have cool robo-muscles and metal gears. :(

>>720343268
To do the PMC work necessary to raise the funds to reach his goal. AKA the plot of the game.

>Survival of the fittest
>Someone far more fit and strong kills the leader of these ideals
Now what?
That's the entire point of the game, you live and die by those beliefs.
Did Armstrong think he'd remain the top dog through all that?

>>720339270 (OP)
He was a coward who waited until the patriots were gone before trying anything.

>>720339270 (OP)
What if
Raiden joined forces with him

>>720341437
In his dying breath, he talks about war continuing as an institution.
He meant what he said.

>>720339419
>doesn't mean shit to rich people that can hire cyber bodyguards.
Why would Armstrong not count that as survival of the fittest when the ONLY REASON Armstrong can even hope to take Raiden in a fight is because he had himself upgraded with bullshit demigod nanomachines? Did Armstrong take part in their rnd himself? Doubt it.

>>720342616
>An empire is built on trust and cooperation.
Name a single one throughout all of human history.

I've yet to hear a general consensus on what "the weak" even means to Armstrong. I've heard interpretations ranging from surgically taking out corrupt DC bureaucrats to killing anyone who can't bench press a tank.

>>720382582
What he did to himself combined with everything he said makes it pretty obvious that he genuinely wants some kind FOTNS wasteland where warlords can take whatever they want for themselves on the virtue of strength alone.

>>720339270 (OP)
He says he wants to destroy gay politicking with wealth and influence and instead wants to make the world about pure strength regardless of who you are, yet he only attained his roided up strength through money and influence of being able to afford military-grade experimental technology.
It's pretty clear he has no interest in making steroid nano machines available to public too as that would take out his power, the guy is saying political scheming is bullshit yet he's literally being a slimy schemer that would only make him the strongest guy in the world.
Charismatic on surface but who knows what he'd look like without nano machines, he is no different from other politicians, all-talk backed up by their wealth and influence.

>>720339270 (OP)
The game already inflates the power of the presidency to something absurd, if he's going to be able to completely dismantle the government and turn the country into pure anarchy. So why doesn't he just use that unlimited power to fix what's wrong with the current system instead of burning everything down and killing millions in the process?

>>720343738
What YOU never realized is that fittest never meant who could lift the most or punch the hardest, but who is best adapted to their reality. And the reality of human existence is that humans are social creatures, and the ability to navigate society is more important than one's bench press. It's never been about standing alone atop everyone else, but about recruiting the strongest coalition around you. The strongest caveman wasn't the one who could beat up anyone in his tribe, it was the one who could convince the tribe they were better off with him in charge. The strongest boxer doesn't have to worry about getting stabbed because he's rich and can buy security. This is exactly what we see in MGR. Armstrong has a cadre of strong lieutenants drawn to him by his strong ideals. Raiden only beats him because he flips one of those lieutenants, Sam, to his side.

>>720339882
Based retard that doesn't understand a thing

>>720383973
because there's no fixing what's ROTTEN TO THE CORE

>>720343852
I think its more like strength create systems that justifies its own existence. Armstrong has proper faith that people who are strong enough to fight their own battles are also intelectually strong that those two go hand in hand while the current system in its rotten state prevents the strong from rising up and making something better because its system of parasitic oppression is so overwhelming that no one besides him or someone who knows the game could actually destroy it from within.

Armstrong is someone who has faith in his ideals and the people who would thrive in his system, the ubermenshes would essentially have all that it takes to basically be good at everything and work together when they see fit or fight each other, that the natural order of such conflict would arise a type of system that is better than anything else preceeding it because the system itself would value strength because it was created by men of strong will and spiritual strength who fight for an idealogy and not for money or stupid non-sensical crap.

Essentially the system now is run and perpetuated by people who are fearful, craven and love money and use their power to suppress people who are better than they are, like the Kali Yuga saying the Merchant caste would rule over the Warriors and the Priests which is something Armstrong finds fundamentally disgusting and hes right. Anyone with a strong moral backbone and a sense of awareness would realize the state of the world is one of weakness and perversion because its run by fearful usurpers who have no strength of their own.

Raidens real concern is his objection to the End's Justify the means philsophy of Armstrong in that Armstrong is willing to oppress weak people, operating within the bounds of the system he claims to hate because he intends to destroy it by any means necessary. Armstrong sees this as necessary as these people would never have thrived anyways thus has justified himself from any wrong doing.

>>720339270 (OP)
He is batshit insane.

>>720344745
Read the DNA results of the bones the Soviets collected, too.

>>720340902
t. dumb mutt

>>720342789
>Trying to give them any sort of philosophy or world-ending capabilities rarely works
I can think of one

>>720381296
The child cyborg army isn't a means to an end because his ends would have already come before they finished completion.

>>720382582
The weak and the strong are just phrases that in the end don't mean shit and he just says them to sound cool. He's a politician. after all.

>>720340902
Bladewolf is not a dog!

>>720368063
/thread

>>720348049
Never said that, bozo

>>720339270 (OP)
killing people for the sake of killing is stupid and evil.

>>720359378
Not really. A group of common men can destroy anyone with capital.

>>720395272
The CIA ain't a group of common men

>>720339270 (OP)
He wants to turn America into Liberia.

>>720339270 (OP)
He is just mad he missed the wild west.

>>720339270 (OP)
He causes unnecessary pain and suffering on others? That's like the dictionary definition of evil.

>>720356483
This.

>>720341254
Exactly what people that are calling for civil war and more political violence want.

>>720339270 (OP)
he's a short-sighted retard

>>720372542
This.

>>720339270 (OP)
HE JUST FUCKING IS OKAY

>>720399264
actual retard

>>720396418
Those guys are still the common working men. They're not the super rich who's power is just capital.

>>720404038
If you're counting the CIA among the "common men" then what's the difference between the current reality we're living in and what Armstrong would have wanted?

>>720339270 (OP)
He's ultimately selfish at the expense of others. Very Jewish (though wrapped in patriotism and great speeches.)

>>720340556
b-but trans people or something
woke ppl are making me recycle ;_;

>>720340225
sam is still wearing a state of the art muscle enhancing bodysuit and has the literal most advanced future-tech sword ever made

>>720356405
I never started caring about them. Doesn't change the fact kidnapping and debraining children is evil. Not to mention the part where he put the brains into literal childhood war trauma simulators to turn them into psycho killers.

>>720408258
The ends justifies the means. That's like current society, anon.

>>720404304
There's actual Laws? Armstrong wanted anarchy.

Like 99.9% of people using this site would die under his rule

>>720382138
Uh, literally all of them? Name one that isn't, that's a better question

>>720408973
Parroted the same retarded talking point again award

>>720340830
The world in that game is constantly killing 9-5 PMC soldiers for meaningless fake and gay wars

>>720339270 (OP)
He rehashed that guy from mgs3 volgin but got away with it

>>720408973
If people actually believe in actual virtues and justice and not just pretending on the internet so they could get good boy points, sacrifices are inevitable.
Revolutions are always bloody with lives lost.

>>720409128
He's right though, any of the people who shill for Armstrong here would be among the first to get killed in his new world order because they're inherently weak minded and would rather fight for someone else, rather than their own ideals.

>>720413875
So by your logic, Sam is weak?