Thread 720413864

>Get double jump
>"Finally, I can explore Bilewater properly."
>Get deep into zone.
>Find bench far in.
>Continue exploring even deeper
>Find one of those rooms that challenges the player to defeat a series of enemies.
>Die
>The run back is hell.
>Stay optimistic, telling myself "I only have to beat that room, and then I'm done.
>Defeat enemies, getting the slow mo cinematic ending to the battle.
>SIKE! This is actually a boss battle, prepare your anus.
>Big froggy bastard appears and performs a bunch of rapid unfamiliar attacks that do double damage and take up the bulk of the space of the room
>I'm expected to adapt to this somehow, with only 2 hits until I'm dead, because I barely survived the enemy phases.
>Of course I die in seconds, because I have to idea what the fuck the boss is doing, and he double damage contact damages me before I can comprehend what just happened.
>I have to make that shitty runback again, and refight the enemies, just to hopefully be lucky enough to learn a boss attack or two before he kills me again in under 10 seconds.

Someone remind me why I'm playing this game?

Because like many, you thought there was no way Silksong could be disappointing.

>Someone remind me why I'm playing this game?
I dunno man.
Every metroidvania is the same, i don't know how anyone who was playing these games in the 90s can still be playing this genre willingly, today.

>>720413864 (OP)
I forgot to mention. Now that I'm benched way in there, I don't have the motivation to leave. Forward is hell, backward is hell. There's no winning. I'm stuck in a part of the game that I don't want to play. The only way out, is to physically walk my character out. No warps or anything.

>>720413864 (OP)
>Find one of those rooms that challenges the player to defeat a series of enemies
so basically half the game?

>>720413864 (OP)
How are you people this fucking bad?

I can't tell if I'm good at video games or if everyone else is shit. The amount of threads of people whining about needing to learn the game is astounding. Are you just trying to play it like Hollow Knight where the combat is so simple you can basically just spam attacks and facetank shit until the boss is dead? You can't really do that in this game. You have more mobility for a reason. You're supposed to dodge shit.

>>720414467
You had to learn in Hollow Knight as well. But that's besides the point honestly. The real issue, is having to learn. And the problem with that, is how much bullshit they put inbetween the player and learning opportunities.
It's 1 thing for a game to have long funbacks. That alone isn't necessarily bad.
It's 1 thing for a game to have enemies before a boss spawns in. I'd still complain, but that alone isn't so terrible.
It's 1 thing for a boss to deal double damage. Alone, that's not necessarily bad either.

But when you combine all three of these things, then you're wasting the players time. How can I learn a fight, when it takes 5 minutes to make the boss spawn, and then I die in 10 seconds because I didn't know the enemies moves backwards after an attack, causing his hitbox to move inside of me, and I get struck with 2 blows of contact damage for 4 masks? That's not giving me sufficient time to learn.

>>720414942
Because you shouldn't be getting hit anywhere close to fast enough to kill you in 10 seconds.

You go through Sinner's Road thinking it's the shittiest and most toxic place in the game, then comes Bilewater and gets even worse. There's a charm to that.

>>720415024
10 seconds is not unrealistic. Though, it's not always 10 seconds. Sometimes it's longer. But other times, it's 10 or under. It really depends on the exact situation.
The bosses certainly make it possible to get hit that fast.

>have a cohesive world that feels large
>magically teleport exactly where you want to go
you can only have one and the devs made the right choice

>run Architect
>get to final phase of any fight
>flood the room with venomous Cogflies, Spikes and Drills
>boss melts in seconds

>>720416135
You can also throw a bomb into the boss's mouth when he does the suck

>>720413864 (OP)
Just get a teleport mod so you don't need to do the runback.
Stop respecting game devs. Stop respecting the "intended experience" when that experience is shit.

>>720416557
I wish I did this. I just nuked him with boomies like ai always do

>>720413864 (OP)
>Someone remind me why I'm playing this game?
you're a sucker for advertising

>First Sinner
What a great boss fight
Basically a harder Widow, which was also great

>>720413864 (OP)
this is actually insane, and the fact that silksong fans will argue about this being a skill issue is even more insane, you also forgot to mention that the water that you fall into half the time inflicts an anti-healing effect

This fight is the epidome of terrible game design from team cherry

>>720413864 (OP)
you just described the my last time playing this game. haven't turned it on since.

have no desire to do the run back, maybe win the gauntlet then have about 30 seconds to learn the boss move set before dying and doing it all again for an hour.

i rolled credits so i technically already beat it anyway

>>720413864 (OP)
I haven't even found Bilewater, I've explored all I can of Sinner's Road and never found anything.

>>720419391
just skip it, beat act 2. you see credits so you technically beat it. only like 3% have done even that by the way.
>but act 3
don't care. already beat the game when i saw credits roll.

>>720419598
I haven't beat Act 2 yet
guess I'll do everything else and see if I get something that lets me access Bilewater because I honestly don't know how to access it otherwise
do I have to swim in maggot shit? Do I need a double jump of some sort? There's a part of the map I can't reach, it's a narrow vertical tunnel that's too far up for me to reach, I could reach it with a double jump.

>>720419391
>>720419717
Go two screens to the right of the Sinner's Road bench and you can find a hole on the right wall under a hanging cage that leads there.

broseph where are your map pins why didn't you buy them

>>720420063
because i need the money to buy save benches and to spend on the occasional "hardcore gamer" scam devices

>>720420307
how fucking poor are you goddamn

the only thing I couldn't buy right away was the expensive ass hot tub

>>720413864 (OP)
I just turned off the TV after dying to the boss.
The fake bench I can accept, but the fact there isn't another option is annoying as hell.

>>720423030
>but the fact there isn't another option is annoying as hell.
Boy do I have news for you.

>>720413864 (OP)
I have found zero reason why this game needs contact damage in the first place.
other than the devs don't know how to program modern action game pushout collision.

>>720423530
I was all in on "you're expected to have mastered Hollow Knight" difficulty but that was the one part I was really hoping they'd change. Taking damage because a spazzing enemy bumps into you does nothing but break up the flow of combat.
Contact damage from downed enemies (double mask in most cases) is just indefensible.

>>720413864 (OP)
Wow I didn't find that bench you're at. I did the runback from the bottom.

>>720417032
Yeah I haven't beat it yet and died 3 times, but it's one of those fights that's so fun I'm not even mad. Silksong needed more bosses like it.

>>720423798
why are you touching stunned enemies, thats like hitting a parked car aka entirely you being a retard

>>720425446
this is not a driving game. it's an on foot game.
you don't take damage from leaning against a car.
why is he touching? probably because;
1. like sister splinter the hitbox is inexcusably large
2. the range of your pissy little swipe is abysmal requiring you to get in close
3. no reasonable person expects a fucking giant stunned boss to have a huge contact damage hitbox. because that's bad design.

I was told I need to do all the quests for the true ending, but does that include courier quests? I really don't wanna.

>>720413864 (OP)
If you're really having that much trouble, just use architect crest

The positive side of it is that it's the worst run back in the game. The second worst only has a 90 second run back with no maggots.

What does evolving the Hunter crest even do? Am I gimping myself by not using it?

>>720426851
No. Only the one for the oil.

>>720414942
I think this is why they're so generous with bonfire placements in Elden Ring. They realized that the bosses are way more spastic and harder to learn so players would get frustrated if the runbacks were too tedious.
It's where SS fumbles. No care for the players. Randomly tedious design. They'll give easy bosses short runbacks sometime and sometimes give ball busting bosses long tedious runbacks. It's ass.

>>720423798
I'm fine with contact damage in some cases, but you should get some i-frames on the dodge so you can dodge through a boss to their other side. Especially the fat ass bosses that like to push you into a corner.
Being able to use your upgraded movement to boost your survivability in a direct way, more than just air dashing to try and extend your jump over attacks, would be really nice.

>>720413864 (OP)
you know you can simply not play slop
you don't have to play it just because everyone else is

>>720413864 (OP)
Boomerang carried my ass in that sex dungeon

>>720425446
NTA but there is a margin of bullshit in there. I've had a few instances where I've been playing safe, poking in and making distance, but when the boss gets stunned unexpectedly their hitbox changes entirely, and I'll suddenly take damage from the enemy who is supposedly moving AWAY from me and I'm also moving away from it. I'll admit I could be fighting bosses wrong, but it still kinda bitchslaps me even when it doesn't affect me beating it.

>>720413864 (OP)
Just make a quicksave before the boss

>>720425446
Hornet has pretty ass range even after some upgrades.
I've definitely taken contact damage trying to bob in and out getting hits on fat bosses and clipping their sprite because you gotta hug their nutsack to make contact (particularly in the early game).
If her default reach was like 25% longer, that issue would go away entirely.

im using an infinite health trainer and im having tons of fun

>>720431665
Remember cheat codes? 20 years ago this game would have had a "get max lives" cheat that you type in when the menu is open. Why dont games do this now? Even games without DLC don't do it.

took a quick gander at the coral forest boss and noped right out

>>720413864 (OP)
Just save all your tools for the boss and use poison.

>>720431665
The only thing I could see cheating in would be the little ammo shards, if I was really stuck on a boss.
I think having both limited tool uses and limited tool ammo resupply is just a dick move.
One or the other was enough. Infinite uses, but it actively drained your total as you attacked. Or limited supply, but no restock cost between lives.

I fucking hate this boss, he is easy to dodge except for his bullshit balls, they always get me, I hug the wall and climb up as soon as I see them but this fag throws it on my head or in a way that makes them explode all the way up where I am

This whole part was the biggest bullshit I've faced in a game in recent memory, legit absolute horseshit cock and ball torture. I'm glad I beat it, but the reward wasn't worth it

>>720413864 (OP)
because you want to git gud

you're not like those other zoomers that need a dodge button

>>720431793
they should because then they can turn off cheevos

>>720431962
I watched youtube videos beating him and usually the person makes it seem like it's the easiest shit ever, every video beating this guy looks like they are fighting for their lives

>>720413864 (OP)
>Someone remind me why I'm playing this game?
Because you bought it day 1 like a retard. You get what you deserve.

>>720425446
In what world does a parked car run you over

>>720413864 (OP)
Because it's the GTA6 of indie games or whatever IGN is getting paid to say

>>720431665
You cheated not only the game, but yourself.

You didn't grow.
You didn't improve.
You took a shortcut and gained nothing.

You experienced a hollow victory.
Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.

It's sad that you don't know the difference.

I'm gonna spoil the whole boss for you
Stay in the maggots, bottom left corner
Now you have all the time in the world to learn what he does

>>720431962
The entire maggot mechanic is sort of a psychological trick. Falling in the maggots is punitive in this area and Sinner's Road because you basically lose 3 health to the heal it's going to block, in addition to any silk it consumes while active. However, the maggots do not actually do damage once already applied, making maggot water perfectly safe to swim in. Once you recognize this it becomes a lot easier to avoid anything the boss does, and also easy to find windows to hit him compared to doing the wall-to-wall sideswitch dance.

>>720414104
If the devs take 7 years to finish a dlc, tell me, how can the game end up good? They could've released 3-4 perfect games in that period. What the devs choose is to have fun fora decade.

not even defending that part or anything but, what changed in gaming that 13 years ago people celebrated dark souls 1 approach to difficulty? Everyone remembers fondly the anor londo archers into the insanely ass runback to ornstein and smough and now people moaning about minute long runbacks in a game with extreme and fun mobility into easy telegraphed bosses. Games without any friction at all become forgettable and believable worldbuilding wouldn't allow for benches right before a boss every time

>>720413864 (OP)
That was the point when I installed a cheat mod
I'm not fucking running back through all that shit and doing the entire enemy gauntlet (10+ minutes) just in order to have one shot at a difficult boss

>>720413864 (OP)
Bilewater is garbage, don't know what to tell you and don't know what the devs were thinking. "What if a metroidvania zone was ugly and full of annoying shit and had no payoff? XDDDD" is a tired meme yet they did it anyway.

>>720426851
These are repeatable so I doubt it. But the queen egg one isn't, so probably this one. They are really easy anyway compared to the oil one

>>720413864 (OP)
People were bitching about judge runback. They werent prepared to piece of nuclear shit that is bilewater runback. And there is very high chance you wont even find a secret bench and will do a full bilewater run instead.

>>720430410
After hitting enemies and not receiving dmg yourself for a bit, it gets a roughly +1 upgrade buff until next dmg received. It's strong, but you need to git gud and it's hard to pull off a nohit when exploring places for the first time.

>>720416702
>that experience is shit.
aka
>im shit and I hate being told im shit
you will never feel fulfilled in gaming since you refuse to actually overcome adversity, its all hollow, just pat yourself on the back and pretend.

>>720434540
Its not about length. Bilewater runback (and I mean from main bench, not hidden one) is EXTREMELY tedious to do.
Its pretty much Sen Fortress runback situation, but ridden with aids on top of that.

>>720423530
>other than the devs don't know how to program modern action game pushout collision.
>despite the tight hitboxes on your and their attacks, but its better for me to assume their incompetence than my own you see

>>720435512
Well yeah, every runback is pretty long if you travel the whole map instead of using the closest bench

>>720435626
I get what you mean but I seriously doubt too many people are going to find second bench on bilewater run. Especially after disgusting "fuck you" with another bench nearby, its not that crazy to assume devs just made another no bench zone like Sinners.

You're a gullible normie retard, most likely.

>>720435568
I think people mistake bad hitboxes with different reasons like floaty movement and other stuff a bit too much.
Personally I am yet to encounter clear "that did not hit me" case.

>>720435512
everytime I though a runback was too long I explored a little bit and always found a shortcut or a hidden bench. Then again I do agree getting back to a boss is tedious but no because of runbacks, it's the disgustingly long animations like boss 10 second entrances or the dream animation and the gauntlet spams. At the end of the day team cherry are 3 randoms who are not the best at game design and silksong is full of weird shit but I respect their choice of putting the worldbuilding first and not making the game as approachable as possible for everyone. Not everyone is going to like games like rainworld either for the same reason

>>720413864 (OP)
I thought the same when I saw that. Then I beat the boss in 2 tries.
You're just panicking because you're thinking of the maggot water below and the runback.If you take it slow, he's extremely easy. His attacks are very slow and easy to avoid, and he spends a lot of time just hovering doing nothing.

The runback is the worst, but it isn't even that bad, it's about the same as the Last Judge. It's 2 minutes at worst, if it takes you 10 you're killing enemies instead of avoiding them.

>>720413864 (OP)
>hmm this is a long runback
>maybe they realized this and hid a bench somewhere along the way
>they did
Come on guys, I'm surprised silksong of all games is showing how bad you guys really are at video games

>>720413864 (OP)
>Someone remind me why I'm playing this game?
You fell for the hype, doesn't help that this is the same bullshit they had in HK except worse in some places, no improvements

>>720435963
I see people complaining about how hunter's march is hard everywhere. Like the though of just going somewhere else doesn't cross their mind for a single second. People think every thing should be beatable instantly or else it hurts their egos

>>720413864 (OP)
The boss is aids, but it's not hard
The runback including the platforming segment takes like 50 seconds at most if you get get gud
And the enemies before the boss can be killed with tools very easily
The only aids part is the guaranteed muckmaggot heal debuff that you get when running back from the bench, but if you are smart about it you can kill 2 easy enemies to get rid of it AND have a free heal from your silk when you get back if you took damage on the way
The fight is easy and can be cheesed with poison tools. But it should take you 10 attempts at most

It just occured to me, are people saying the game is hard just not using Wanderer's crest?
I thought the game way too hard until I found that crest, then everything became incredibly fun and easy.

>>720436365
>The only aids part is the guaranteed muckmaggot heal debuff that you get when running back from the bench
while standing on the platform you can needle dash into jump to the wall to avoid it

>>720434540
https://youtu.be/NrSEwTfFuZQ

this game doesnt seem very fun judging by this thread, guess i'll skip it
i've only played hollow knight for a couple of hours anyway, could never get into it

>>720413864 (OP)
You can cheese the frog nigger boss by just embracing the maggot water, and sticking to one of the lower corners of the arena and spamming tools at him & doing occasional poke attack at him until he dies. He literally cannot hit you if you are in one of those corners.

>>720423393
I just saw the map on OP. I was going to explore somewhere else, but I might try again, I can manage the runback.

>>720436365
>but if you are smart about it you can kill 2 easy enemies to get rid of it AND have a free heal from your silk when you get back if you took damage on the way
There's also a respawning cache of silk just above the boss room that gives enough for precisely one heal

>>720434540
In the 80s people were fine with starting the whole game over from the beginning when they ran out of lives. People have just gradually stopped tolerating timewasting in video games.
>believable worldbuilding wouldn't allow for benches right before a boss every time
is there even an in-world justification for Silksong waking up at a bench every time she dies?

>>720434525
Name a single dev that released 3 perfect games in 7 years after 2007
protip you can't, even fromsoft had semiturds like ds2,3 and elden shit to break their streaks

>>720420063
Map pins are so fucking worthless

>>720438840
no they aren't

>>720413864 (OP)
camp pin the right hand maggot pool and use the most broken weapon in the game

>>720436385
I think people are rushing through the game and aren't exploring enough. This game gives you a bunch of different tools to deal with any situation. And all the act 1 crests can make the game easier if you load them out correctly to fit your playstyle.

>>720413864 (OP)
> Muah this boss is too hard along with the runback
Fight him in the water and it's an easy fight, you can dodge most of the attacks like the cum which it can't hit you and he can't suck your ass neither
You are welcome Chrissy

>>720413864 (OP)
I didn't find the closer bench till after the boss.
I made the run from the bell beast bench every time.

>>720414226
Nah m8 you overestimate how difficult the path is because right->left is a climb. Going back to the bellway is a cakewalk.

>>720413864 (OP)
The game is like this because of /v/. After weirdo shunt-ins unloaded a billion gallons of semen on Hollow Knight for inventing the Metroidvania Dark Souls genre, Team Cherry knew Silksong's reputation would suffer if game journalists and normies were capable of beating it. So they played it safe and made the game intentionally frustrating, knowing self-proclaimed "real" gamers would eat up the slop while anyone complaining that the game was too hard would be buried under a mountain of GIT GUD memes. The game isn't fun because having fun it not the point of the experience: the point is suffering through it in order to feel like you accomplished something.

>>720415246
I don't even understand what's supposed to be so bad about Sinner's Road. You have some basic ass corridors and roach dogs who literally have one attack.

>>720413864 (OP)
this is the literal worst runback in the game, stick it out man, let the rage fuel you

>>720414289
Post your 100% clear

>>720439585
>getting maggots on you
ewww

Not. My. Problem.

>>720413864 (OP)
Meanwhile, all the autists at /v/ that spent their whole playthroughs hitting all walls
>WHAT? YOU DIDN'T FIND THE VERY OBVIOUS WALL IN THE BILE?????
>EVEN THOUGH BILEWATER HAS MANY FLOORS WITH DEAD ENDS?
90% of the people who found this bench were helped. People who says otherwise are lying cunts.

>>720441098
I'm kind of glad I didn't find it, the 3 minute (actual) runback was pretty angering, but deep inside I knew they didn't intend it to be so bad

>>720441098
It's okay to find help online
Video game progression is a cooperative experience

>>720441163
I don't disagree with that, but when you have the usual /v/ infuriating retards that lie by saying they found it thelmselves (or maybe they did, but only because they've been checking every wall in this game without even a hint of thought process of whether there is really something: they just do it because it's a wall).
People aren't honest.

>>720441098
if you find the tiny hidden room with "nothing" in it because the waterline is clearly below the wall (a trope that has been used since HK), you're going to find that it also has a breakable wall. of all the things to pretend that people can't find on their own... come on now. save those comments for threads like the abhorent blue prince ones

>>720441272
Have you played the game? Each side has dead ends. I'm not saying nobody found it, I'm saying most /v/ tards that says they did lied and were helped. MOST, not everyone.
And even amongst those who found this one, a lot probably blindly hit all walls. There is no skill about that, it's just plain autism.

>>720441163
See what I mean with the anon above?
>oh this is a breakable wall, this has been used since HK

>>720441272
Funny how people in most threads "found" this wall by "themselves".

>>720441459
>Have you played the game?
stop posting you reddit-spacing retard. genuinely kill yourself for doubling-down on something so wrong.

>>720441532
>how could I have known there was something to do in this secret tiny space with nothing else???
reread the first sentence of >>720441272 retard

>>720419240
Apparently if you just stay in the water the boss can't hit you

I dont mind the run backs since the movement is so satisfying and fun.
At worst I get a bit flustered and take a break.
The game also had a high skill ceiling so almost everytime I die I know I could have played better.

>>720434540
Dark Souls let you smash your head against a wall, and slowly improve for it because it was an RPG where levels were a fairly big deal.
You got money for failing, and that money could be spent on more levels that made you stronger, which makes the game easier.
Silksong's upgrades are all distributed through the levels, and not much other than direct spatial progression tends to be locked behind boss fights. Failure doesn't benefit you at all, because there's no RPG system in the game for you to boost up.
Either you beat the boss, or you go somewhere else, there's nothing in between.