Thread 721156249

What went wrong?

How do you know if a game is unfun or you just suck?

>every game has to be about having fun
holy casual alert

>>721156249 (OP)
I blame the devs taking p[/spoiler[reddit posts seriously for 7 years
>>721156431
>every game has to be a skill dick measuring contest
holy tryhard alert

>>721156314
I know i suck, but when i played Sekiro or Elden Ring and it was hard, i still had fun. Can't say the same with Silksong.

>>721156314
those things aren't mutually exclusive some times, but answering your question, the closest we can get to this conclusion is by popular consensus.

>>721156651
fun comes when you master the game, you retard.

>>721156856
well i am in act 2 and haven't mastered the game therefore, not having fun

>>721156249 (OP)
I think it's more fun than 1. The most unfun parts of Silksong aren't Bilewater or Last Judge, little intense ramp up to make sure you're in the game - it's just the dumbass sidequests about giving up half your cash or getting rat pelts.

>>721156249 (OP)
The hype brought in normalfags. Still a perfect game though.

>>721156249 (OP)
Only area I didn't liked was bilewater, all the rest was a blast to play

>>721156651
the reason is because those games are "hard" but they are easily explotables and you can come up with you own solution even if you suck at the game (like myself), I haven't played silksong yet, I bough it but I've been busy but from what I've gathered is a game with a straightforward design and only one approach.

I might not even play it at the end because I also suck and being stuck at bosses for hours doesn't sound like fun anymore to me.

Why are people saying this game is hard it's maybe a mild half step up in difficulty compared to the first Hollow Knight but nothing has been particularly ball crushing.

I think I had more trouble in my first playthrough of Sekiro than right now. I've only been walled by like 1 boss and it's an optional hunt that I can just come back to whenever. Does the game get ballbustingly hard in Act 3 or have people somehow gotten exponentially more casual in the last 5 years?

>>721156314
You find your self quitting because of time wasting tedium instead of challenge.

>>721157061
i do that every hard game

>>721156945
Also I just got through Ori and the Blind Forest and that shit was way more frustrating and punishing than Silksong - Ori controls like a sack of bricks and most lategame enemies/hazards instakill you by design - but normies suck that game's dick. Explain this, /v/.

>>721156249 (OP)
Tedious shit, damage sponges bosses with lot of damage, quest do not reward anything useful, useful shit is behind long tedios crap that is not worth the effort.

>Screenshot of youtube video with no views.
Ad.

>>721156651
Sekiro and Elden Ring are fake hard, that's why. Any retard can beat those games, they just have to memorize when to tap a single button. Silksong requires more out of the player.

>>721157061
what is the difference between tedium and challenge in SS?

>>721156249 (OP)
Runbacks. The game is a 9/10 otherwise.

>>721157381
which runback is troubling you?

>>721156249 (OP)
It was never a (you) problem. It must be because of someone else, Is it? the game wasn't even that hard. these mf should stick to AAA overpriced trash, comfortably munching slops all days inside their shit shed instead of playing a fun game

>>721156249 (OP)
all the budget went into marketing

>>721156249 (OP)
nothing went wrong? It's meant to be challenging for people who beat HK. If you went in it headfirst without playing the og and got your ass beat that's YOUR fault

>>721157369
>these games are not as hard as this game so they are bad games
ok, well i still had lots of fun with the bad games and little fun with the good and hard game

bilewater is something made out of spite

>>721157009
>Why are people saying this game is hard
I think it's a mix of people being too used to they way HK played not being able to change their playstyle and newcomers seeing cute cartoony hype game and jumping in without knowing what to expect

>>721156249 (OP)
>Putting double jump and hover on the same button
WTF were they thinking

>>721157879
forget smashfags being unable to quarter-circle, HK redditors can't even press a button twice

>>721156651
>bonfire before boss arena
>hard
It's fucking not. If anything Miyazaki is good at making a fake difficulty. Beating a boss because you can get a better pattern from 100 of attemps out of nothing is not a challenge. this is problaly why hackazaki was cutting back on runbacks so much because shitters can't beat them

>>721158059
it makes it so you have to double jump first before floating, retard

>>721157879
And then they got rid of the input to make yourself float without double jumping for some retarded reason.

>>721157826
Are people really having trouble with the more complex movement then? Because the original Hollow Knight was laughably basic in that regard. I know even I had some trouble getting used to how the clawline worked until I cleared Mt. Fay which is an area designed to train you on the clawline.

It's not even that complex it's two types of dashes, a sprint, a double jump, and a glide. Are people really getting walled by that? You'd think og fans of Hollow Knight would appreciate a sequel being the same but with added complexity to dig into, I know I certainly am.

>>721156431
holy tryhard alert

>>721158248
Something similar happened when Sekiro came out, soulsfags were trying to play it the same as DS and getting filtered hard until rhey figured out they needed to learn to play the game instead of relying on old habits

>>721158518
Which is hilarious since the two games don't even play that differently, you just press the parry button to iframe through attacks instead of the roll button.

Why are people allowed to shit on Dark Souls 2 for being difficult because of shitty design choices but Silksong gets a pass for everything?

>>721157826
I'm going off a memory from 2017 but I remember thinking HK difficulty was extremely overstated at the time until around the very end. Silk Song's perceived difficulty on the other hand feels like the community got it spot on. You get 2 easy bosses and then the games kicks you in the balls and tells you to git gud.

>>721157132
>ori controls like a sack of bricks
He has momentum instead of binary moving or not moving Hollow Knight uses. Also, the game gives you an ability that lets you boost yourself off of enemies, enemies are not going to be what can kill you it's going to be environmental hazards. If they're instakilling you it sounds like you haven't found many health upgrades. You start with 3 and the maximum is 15, you can also get a defense upgrade after unlocking the triple jump. There are very few things that can instantly kill Ori.

>>721156249 (OP)
it has nothing going for it

>>721158127
who said anything about bonfires? anyway your arguments are pretty bad because HK knight bosses are even more built around patterns. Souls bosses are far more unpredictable

I only dislike paying for benches and diagonal pogoing. Other than that it was a fun game.

>>721158657
The only thing that made DS2 hard was people trying to use the lock-on to fight mobs, once you learn to stop doing that it becomes much easier to manage large groups of enemies

>>721156249 (OP)
People like this piss me off. This game doesn't appeal to them, but instead of just playing something else, they DEMAND that the game MUST conform to them specifically because they want to be part of the conversation so bad. People like this is why gatekeeping is a good thing. How the fuck are you gonna barge into someone else's house and start rearranging all their furniture?

Lack of arcade mode

>>721158670
you're supposed to be coming in after already beating hardest HK challanges

>>721156249 (OP)
casuals have been mollycoddled by Elden Ring and forgot what an actually hard game looks like

>>721158673
Health upgrades barely matter when the max you can heal is for two, and that's for ice zone - lava zone is all insta-kills. All lasers and lava. The things you're meant to be building for, the final zone, all instakill Ori.

No, the only reason anyone gives this dogshit game a pass is that you can set a checkpoint whenever and can just headbutt your way through an awful platforming section with RNG behaviour.

>>721156431
>make fun game
>suddenly release an unfun sequel
That's the fucking problem you retard. There's literally nothing wrong with making a shitty unfun game, the issues lies when its sequel follows a completely different game design philosophy

>>721159302
how is Silksong a completely different game design philosophy from HK?

>>721158657
>Why are people allowed to shit on Dark Souls 2 for being difficult
That's not the reason 99% of people shit on DS2
>but Silksong gets a pass for everything
It doesn't, a lot of people are complaining about the annoying runbacks.

>>721156431
Yes.

>>721156431
Hi Neil Druckmann

>>721159336
Well, for starters, kino knight's economy wasn't fucking retarded and I never had to intentionally grind for geos. Silksong on the other hand punishes me for shoving my throat with worthless shards and then even goes the extra mill to piss me off by making me to pay to unlock benches

>>721159460
>worthless shards
have you only been playing for a hour?

>>721159498
I started act 2 and then took a rage break after paying to """"unlock"""" two benches in the same room

>>721156249 (OP)
>two geriatric boomers can't keep up with a faster game
Not my problem

are we going to have this same discourse every single time a notable challenging game drops? video game discourse feels like groundhog day sometimes. I guess it's going to happen again with ninja gaiden 4

>>721159693
Ninja Gaiden 4 won't be hard

>>721156314
It's purely subjective. Fun lies in between boredom and frustration. If you're constantly frustrated with a game, it failed at being fun.

>>721156249 (OP)
I'm not giving your videos any clicks.

>>721159790
neither was hollow knight. that's the point I'm trying to make.

>>721156249 (OP)
Looks fun to me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRfvT5dK0fI

>>721156651
Sekiro is shit because 1 weapon, third person action slop is about builds and character creation.
Sekiro doesn't understand itself

>>721159693
unfortunately yes because the "discourse" is driven by influencers, youtubers, and streamers who are almost universally awful at games, or at least tend to prefer easy games because it makes it easier to focus on being "entertaining."

>>721159090
Ori focuses a lot more on the platformer side of metroidvanias than the combat. If the first escape sequence didn't clue you in to that, I don't know what would. Lava in 2D platformers is generally an instant kill. Lasers are telegraphed. And the final area isn't all instant kills, there's still spikes, enemies and other projectiles.

>>721160103
Meant for
>>721159218

>>721159302
but It's the same game design, same philosophy. the difficulty is along line with dream bosses to pure vessel, NKG, zote and normal radience later on while the first game takes a long time to start picking up the speed. fuck no I won't be stuck fighting false knight in the sequel. and nothing has topped absolute radience of bullshittering since

>>721156431
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRA7gxgqirg
People always forget the bit that comes after the main quote of this

>>721159218
>>721157132
holy fucking shitter
ori is a piss easy game that controls extremely well, you're just absolute garbage at games

>>721156249 (OP)
Oh shit you found a new video to spam endless threads about?
Boy I can't wait to see this thread thirty more times

>>721160285
There's way too many fucking jumping challenges compared to hollow knight. There's no longer a silent protagonist. Game has fuck you tier traps. The economy is retarded. Game forces you to grind for consumable items this only affects shitters tho and the game is divided in acts for no reason other than following shitty nutrends
This ain't hollow knight 2

>>721157380
>having to try a boss 100 times because it's so hard
= challenge
>getting sick of a part you'd only had to retry 3 times because it a has slow repetitive padding section like forced walking before hand that only serves to waste the players time
= tedium

>>721158964
You're gaslighting yourself into thinking game didn't go overboard with its design.

>>721157132
Ori is best controlling 2D platformer ever and HK is the most clunky shit ever.
You're retarded

>>721160578
>Game has fuck you tier traps.
>See trap on the ground
>Jump over it
>right behind it is a trap that's hidden better
Sneaky fuckers

>>721160473
>>721160619

You beat Ori when you were 12 and have mistaken your retarded 12 year old mind's capacity for bashing at a brick wall for ease because a bunch of game journos played it for 20 minutes and declared it GOTY.

Meanwhile you're in a thread for bitching about Silksong difficulty when nothing takes more than 3 attempts with some decent effort. The final stupid chase sequence in Ori takes more than 3 attempts, all so you can see the final boss just kill herself after Ori achieved nothing.

>>721156249 (OP)
Just the same, self-indulgent attitude that leads to garbage like Consort Radahn. You make things harder and more oppressive because it's "badass"

>>721156431
Yes? Why the fuck are you forcing yourself to play something that isn't fun?

>>721160812
It's okay to be bad at platformers. Everyone has something they are bad at.

>>721160812
>filtered by the end run
How shit are you

>>721156249 (OP)
Every now and again the game catches me enjoying myself and savagely punishes me for it by forcing me to bang my head against a wall.
It is anti-fun.

>>721157879
Putting my silk skills on the tools button is way worse. It's the only reason I avoided using tools unless I didn't mind accidently wasting silk

>>721161165
>wasting silk
Just hit the enemies more

gaming became normal and normies are all casuals. nothing has changed. if you think silksong is hard you never played platformers in the nintendo days.

>>721161287
What are some platformers from the Nintendo days you personally consider hard?

>>721161394
nuh uh im not doing -this- just so you can insult me later, fuck off.

>long runbacks
>controls so shit you have to use the dpad or get fucked
>boring mmorpg tier quests
>bosses give you 0 currency so have 0 thrill of exploring after beating a boss, also you stay poor for half the game
>have to farm for beads or you can't rest
>have to farm for shards or you can't use your shiny tools
>have to farm in a fucking metroidvania
>you have to equip what should be basic features like the beads magnet and the compass
>act 3 is uninspired
>platforming is uninspired and it's always the same obstacles all game
>bosses have too much health considering how boring some of them are
>the map is huge but some parts feel copy pasted to pad the runtime
>backtracking, backtracking everywhere, also the game doesn't give you a tp to the bellbeast until act3

Silksong has many good points but its bad points make the game more and more tedious the more and more you play, and less and less fun.

I cant wait for the dlc content to be even harder, Silksong was a really satisfying challenge

>>721161506
>people would actually use the analog stick to play a 2d platformer
Yknow that explains a lot

>>721161354
ironically, TLOU 1 and 2 are fun as fuck, so they may not use the word but they did craft it

>>721161492
I promise I will not insult you. I just want to know which NES games are hard. I grew up playing NES and beat a lot of games considered hard and I'm constantly finding myself frustrated in Silksong.

>>721161589
If it's unusable then why do the dev make it a possibility?

>>721156431
Based buzzword denouncer

>>721161239
This is the exact mindset the devs were banking on, lmao.
>Just hit enemies more
>In a game where half the rooms are empty corridors and enemies deal giga-damage
Farming silk every time you misclick a tool isn’t gameplay, it’s busywork. Might as well have called it Hollow Grind.

>>721161589
I never had any problems with it.

>>721160578
It literally picked right up after hollow knight. this is just an extension of it.
>jump challenges and traps
assuming you had aready been to white palace/deepnest and used to doing jump puzzles
>silksong divided the game into segments, because nu-trend
other than it does highlight the progression. what's this nu-trend? Is this because e33 has it? Is this what it was all about???

>I missed input and waste resources like a retard
I see where this thread is going

People just don't want to admit that they're bad at video games

>>721156249 (OP)
>You don’t see what happens to the Hollow Knight
>Instead of fighting the Void God you fight Lace for a third time
0/10 I waited 6 years for this crap

lol @ all the people who failed the bilewater IQ test

>>721159586
goddamn you are dumb

>>721159586
wow I'm sorry you're that retarded

>>721161589
NTA but the game literally tells you that a controller is the best way to play.

The most used controllers prioritize the Analog for movement VIA placement so its gonna be a common choice.

I beat Last Judge and 50% of all players got that far
What boss before this guy could the normalfags possibly be complaining about? Nothing took me more than 5 tries

>>721163095
right but if you have a brain you use a d-pad for 2d platformers

>>721163146
People actually complained about Moorwing and Sister Splinter

>>721163276
lol

>>721163146
I hated the bitch that spammed bells but it only took two tries

>>721156431
Nigger
Games are all about fun

>>721163276
Sister splinter bugged out for me, not sure wtf happened, I think I did too much damage in a short period because she summoned two of the flying guys and went into a hyper attack pattern but then on my next try she just completely vanished after summoning the adds

>>721163318
actually they're about entertainment

>>721163318
actually they're about something to distract you while you watch tiktok

Over correction from hollow knight being easily trivialized, and that silksong started as a DLC, meant to expand on hollow knight, explaining the sharper difficulty curve.

>>721158964
Agreed. I just want these mongoloids to fuck off.

>>721163636
more iterative games should expand on the previous game's difficulty

>>721163458
>>721163505
Entertainment=fun

>>721160619
>Ori
>Best controlling
>Literally not even fun to play until you get bash
>Combat is beyond ass

Nah, fuck off

>>721163146
Probabably this guy.

Honestly even I think the whole frontal approach to the Hunters March area is a gigantic ass trap and is the meanest section in the game. Since if you fight this guy or any of the pretty deadly ass enemies before you have any upgrades you are gonna think "Alright gotta go back and get my stuff"

And that traps you into a really harsh loop of where you keep moving forward and dying without taking the bottom path which is where your upgrades actually begin because the game incentives you with "gotta get my stuff"

>>721163993
I agree, but silksong's tuning is fucked, taking 2 mask damage in act 1 is silly.

>>721164113
you have 5 hearts, you can regularly heal 3 hearts, Silksong is not a hard game

>>721164101
Oh yeah that guy is rough cause he fucks with your pogo crutch by being in a tiny room

>>721164101
fighting this guy with no dash was fun. my controller loves it

>>721164113
>taking 2 mask damage in act 1 is silly
Why?

>>721164113
and you can recover 3 hearts with just one heal, is that also silly?

>>721164101
I lured him into the low ceiling area and he could only do 1 move anymore

>>721164260
The healing ratio is the same as the first game

>>721164415
yes, HK1 was also forgiving except SS is even moreso since you can heal faster and in midair

>>721164260
It's not a hard game, it's an annoying game.
>>721164326
>>721164351
starting with 5 masks gives you 3 hits until you're dead, add the long heal time and it becomes obnoxious to make small mistakes. that kind of difficulty is fine later in the game, but not at the start.

I got past act 1, then realized I won't have more fun with this game.

>>721164457
It's crazy that in a game where 80% of enemies fly now, they're all still shut down by pogoing up and healing

>>721156314
Its okay to suck.
Not every person has to beat every game.
There are Journalist friendly games for people who get filtered easily.
"Tedium" and such are just words thrown around by quitters who would burn in the crucible of old video games, something bandied about by gacha brains.
Its okay to not be good at a game.

>>721164479
>that kind of difficulty is fine later in the game, but not at the start
Why?

>>721164479
>long heal time
you people suck and ruin everything for the rest of us

>>721164553
at the start you have no tools and you are not used to the controls.
a game shouldn't get easier when you get more abilities by staying the same, it has to tune up to match the player's power.

>>721164701
>at the start you have no tools and you are not used to the controls
So you're careful and it feels amazing to get better at the movement
>a game shouldn't get easier when you get more abilities
And this one ramps up the difficulty.

>>721164479
It's a sequel to hk. do (you) want them reset everything and send (you) back to fight moss charger? maybe beat pantheon of hallowest and comeback?

>>721164746
>So you're careful and it feels amazing to get better at the movement
yea, then you get a turd in the punchbowl that ruins that experience.
>>721164778
what are you talking about?

>>721163276
I was gaslit into thinking that Sister Splinter was a difficult fight...

I don't think the average gamer understands "game design" at all. To use Sister Splinter as an example, consider the following. You're liable to reach her through two paths: Wormways or Greymoor. If you enter Shellwood through the Wormways, you have the silkshot skill from Mosshome equipped (I can't recall what it's called), and you've just used it to destroy the regenerating webs in Mosshome and those holding the Bell Beast. If you enter through Greymoor and Bellhart, you'll likely have silkstorm equipped, and you've just used it to rape the annoying crawbugs that are such a bitch to deal with without it.
In short, Splinter's thorny vines recall the webs that are broken with silkshot, and her flying adds recall the crawbugs that are raped by silkstorm. The boss is a joke if you use either of the silk skills you're guaranteed to have (one of) equipped at this point, but apparently players just hoarded their silk "to heal" and got overwhelmed by an easy boss as a result. It's so stupid.

And then there's clawline, the ability that tells you when you pick it up
>you will gain silk back for grappling an enemy
And then they place an enemy in your path that you NEED to grapple to to even exit the room where you pick it up. Do you know how many people I've seen bitching about flying enemies while refusing to use clawline because
>it uses silk, bro
It's fucking ridiculous.

Elden Ring at least had mimic tear to bail retards out. Silksong has, at best, tacks and cogflies. Game's great, I just hate like half the people playing it.

>>721156249 (OP)
>this game doesn't give me a cheap dopamine rush for minimal effort
>puzzling design philosophy
The game is designed to be fun to play, not fun to hit a random key and get a pat on the back each time

>>721164846
I don't know. sounds like (you) are getting filtered

>>721164846
>yea, then you get a turd in the punchbowl that ruins that experience
What?
Anyway you got filtered. And you seem to think the only difficulty tuning possible is by adjusting enemy damage so go back to Bethesda slop

>>721164849
This. These people are fucking pigeons.

>reach act 3
>same enemies, but they now take 10 times more hits
Making the player feel weaker at the end of the game than at the very start is definitely an odd choice for a metroidvania

>>721164936
Its this, when you actually make something difficult its "artificial" to these people, scrubs are scrubs end of

>>721164846
Get filtered, retard.

>>721164935
yes, bilewater isn't a fun area, I don't waste time on games that are not fun.
>>721164936
>implying
I'm not going into any sort of depth when it comes to silksong's difficulty since it fails the most basic premise of difficulty tuning.

>>721164981
lol that's an evocative description

>vaguely interested in Silksong, I liked HK1 but it wasn't my favorite game ever
>plan to buy it in future sometime
>see all the normalniggers crying about difficulty
>now I have to immediately play it
>it's all fun as hell bosses that they're crying about, as expected

these people would actually cry playing any nes game

>>721165124
unlike silksong, megaman 2 is a lot of fun

The only truly bullshit aspect of Silksong is something that I complained about in Hollow Knight as well
>pogo on boss
>boss gets staggered
>fall into him
>staggered boss still does contact damage
Bonus points if it was a flying boss and him getting staggered and falling down is actually what made you miss your pogo

>>721159460
>and I never had to intentionally grind for geos.
You never paid for the leg eater's charms?

>>721156249 (OP)
I haven't had as much fun with a game as I've had with Silksong in ages.

>>721165057
>I couldn't pass muster
Sad

I'm going through Choral Halls right now. Using Reaper the whole way, will there ever be a more kino crest?

>>721165265
yeah desu just remove contact damage from staggered enemies and re-enable it when the boss gets active again

>>721165124
>die at Boswer
>game spawns me at the beginning of the castle
Sigh... It's just... tedious, you know? Artificial difficulty the pad the game's length, I don't know why I have to do more platforming every time I want to attempt the Bowser boss, it's just bad game design.

>>721165431
yes, every other crest

>>721165393
not a clue what that is

>>721165284
That shouldn't be a problem.
The Unbreakable variants, yes, because that literally doubles the entire expenditure of HK1 otherwise.

>>721165462
>rangelet

>>721165431
Literally any other crest

>>721165431
reaper dps is really bad, just so you know

>>721165456
Because the attempt includes the run up to the boss

>>721165517
Yeah I'm aware Wanderer can attack 3 times in the same time for the same damage per hit, but it's pretty rare that you get to just stand next to an enemy

JUST BEAT LAST JUDGE
WHAT WAY DO I GO FOR THE DOUBLE JUMP I DON'T WANNA EXPLORE 30 MORE AREAS WITHOUT IT

>>721156249 (OP)
The fact that the best traversal ability is quitting and reloading.

>>721165624
Alas, double jump is something you're not going to get without the clawline, you have no choice but to keep playing the game

>>721165624
Get grapple through Trobbio bossfight in Archives that leads to Underworks, then go through Mount Fay through The Slab one way or the other.

>>721165727
OKAY I FOUND THE FAST TRAVEL STATION FOR THE SLAB ALREADY SO THAT'S GOOD
NO IDEA WHAT THE ARCHIVES ARE BUT I'LL CHECK NEAR UNDERWORKS

>>721165517
for first playthrough It's decent. observe movesets while hit and run and finding opening with more rangw. It does fall off but not by much anyway. don't know why ppl keep pushing this narrative. It's his first time after that just wiki the whole game and read datamined damage formula

There is definitely something wrong with the games when even the minigames are yet another frustrating affair. Not to mention Bilewater and meat delivery bullshit is a straight up hate letter to the fans

>>721165727
I already had double jump by the time I fought Trobbio lol

>>721165865
It's just people LARPing as if they found every opening on every boss to use Wanderer on

>this whole debacle
>+ charlie kirk situation

I cannot refute the wisdom of the talmud

>>721163458
>entertainment
HOLY FUCK you are dumb. Entertainment means amusing someone (=fun).

>>721165865
Well I keep seeing too many streamers use reaper and have 5 min boss fights when I can do the same with the default crest in 1 min.

>>721166096
streamers are shitters, understandable

>>721165923
You can probably get through to that section of the Underworks through Wisp Thicket too, or other ways, but Trobbio is more straightforward to explain.

>>721166135
90% of my time when fighting a boss for the first time is spent trying to dodge it
If you wanna rush it down, use Beast you little baby pussy bitch fag

I think mods can start banning Silksong threads, considering the people who care about the game already finished it and moved on. The only ones left are shitposters and brain-damaged shitters still trying to finish it and crying.

>>721157525
lmao that game had ZERO marketing, you dumb fuck

>>721166096
I usually rotate between hunter/reaper/shaman. nothing against using wanderer but I see newer movesets and don't wanna be stuck with basic knight's attacks

>>721166135
brother you're still using reaper it's just shit crest I wish it was better okay

>>721158142
should've played it on release before they patched it

The biggest complains are about optional challenges being too hard. The only hard road block is Last Judge, but Sinner's Road specifically exists to bypass judgement. Bilewater is designed to frustrate anyone trying to beeline it, as little exploring reveals checkpoints and silk caches. The forum battle has 2 possible NPCs that can be called to help you. "Rosary Economy" is about the keys, which you don't need to buy.

>>721164479
>starting with 5 masks gives you 3 hits until you're dead
That's assuming no healing. Which would be an extremely stupid assumption.

>>721166456
>a new toy
>I'm not supposed to use it because /v/ said it's bad
but I thought /v/ love playing hard games. here, I'm here literally handicap myself because it's more fun. explain?

>>721166285
>crying for the jannies

>>721166808
>please stop ruining my shitposting fun!! i want to be a nigger and there is no new releases!!!

>>721166680
I used it and I was just mad to find out how shit the dps is. It just feels like crutch for people who haven't learned pogo and spacing yet.

>>721156249 (OP)

No pain, no gain.

GIT GUD NIGGERS

>>721156249 (OP)
>>721156431
Silksong is literally more fun than HK1 in part because of the challenge. The enemies being smarter and more aggressive makes the game more fun and engaging than the first one.
Not only that but the game also gives you more advanced movement and all of these tools, in fact allowing more creativity and fun than the original game.

>>721158964
Exactly, I fucking hate these crybabies.

I've been playing through HK for the first time. Its fun, but it doesn't really feel like a metroidvania to me. Also there are some weird fucking design choices like needing a charm to see yourself on the map or the pushback on every single attack.

>>721158964
Says you who demands that the game appeals to your type only. Nothing is taken away from you (other than your fragile ego) if they were to add easy (and hard) difficulty options.

You go around telling people to "just get good", "just learn the game". How about you go and kill every boss without using tools or taking damage. I could do it. So why can't you? Because after all, it's just about learning the game, right? Or are you... retarded?

I remember getting so frustrated with HK to the point of being really close to drop it completely.
It didn't happen in Silksong. The game is far easier both in terms of combat and specially the platforming. Then Act 3 came along and they decided to make every old enemy an absolute sponge. Acts 1 and 2 got me hooked, but now I don't even feel like booting up the game. Not because the game is harder, but because after 30 or so hours, moving around the map feels way worse than it did at the very beginning.
Difficulty isn't the problem here, the same way it wasn't the problem with MH Wilds. It's just the superficial bullshit normies like to spew when talking about vidya, leaving no room to discuss the real problems with the designs of these games.

>>721156651
It was the opposite for me.

>>721157453
Raging conchfly. Would genuinely pay 1000 rosaries for a bench next to the boss.
Fuck it, make buying such a boss bench reward you with the "You Didn't Beat the Game" achievement.

>>721163458
kys faggot

>>721168135
I guess I should drop it now then. While it has had some high highs, playing Silksong for me has been like pulling teeth, I'm not having fun most of the time. I thoroughly enjoyed HK all the way through, but that was many years ago and I don't even remember what it was that I liked about it.

>>721168718
you first
I didn't have much "fun" watching a documentary about jungle flora the other day, but it was entertaining

>>721156249 (OP)
The bosses are all pretty good but there's a couple fighting arenas that made me want to claw my face off. Short as fuck iFrame windows after getting hit, low health, low damage... Hornet just feels weak.

Movement is so complex compared to Hollow Knight it's not even close.

And theres so many enemies that fly and throw projectiles it's insane, I fucking hate standing around and waiting for them to become vulnerable. They are tanky too so its not like tools alone can help you even the odds.

>>721166285
>ban people with other opinions
calm down, Trump

>spend seven years expanding what was dlc into a full game
>make it even grander than the first one
>no teasing, no hype farming
>price it low even if they could easily charge $70
>game is designed to be most satisfying for the actual fans, torture for bandwagoners

>>721169950
i hope the devs read this, my guy

>>721162778
>>You don’t see what happens to the Hollow Knight
>>Instead of fighting the Void God you fight Lace for a third time
Not sure if blindness or just mental retardation

>using anything but Reaper
You didn't beat the game.

>>721163095
Bullshit. MKB is the best way to play.

>>721158657
I'm loving this revisionism you DS2 fags came up with saying people hate DS2 because of the difficulty mainly

>>721170421
>Beast has 78.9 DPS in rage mode
Very nice. I first beat the true final boss with that crest and people swore it was a bad crest.
I knew better.

>>721170421
I'm a hoonter. I hoont the boss. My playthrough counted.

Exploration is a chore in Silksong.

The sheer scale of the map is a detriment for the genre it's playing in. Backtracking once you have new upgrades requires you to navigate an absolute sprawl of a map. Trivial as you've mastered it, but tedious on your hunt for new things in old places.

The game needed either condensed maps or a greater focus on forward momentum than Hollow Knight.

>>721171101
good thing there's fast travel points and markers you can place on your map where it is obvious that you need a traversal ability to pass through

>>721170290
thank you

how do i reach this? description makes it sound like somewhere in shellwood but i found nothing

>>721170959
>t. wanderer crutcher

>>721156431
why do you hate yourself and your time?

>>721170421
>no crit
They fear the truth

>>721156249 (OP)
I'm someone that disliked Hollow Knight but also had some hope for Silksong improving in enough ways to be fun in its own right but based on what I've seen and heard I don't think it has. Still tempted to get it though.

>>721165109
You sound like a giant loser.

>>721171101
Exploration is a chore because the game barely rewards you for it
Bosses and minibosses almost never drop anything beyond a few exceptions like the first sinner. Mask upgrades are rare as fuck because their number is the same as in the first game but the map became bigger. At least half the charms sold by vendors should've been an exploration reward.
When i climbed to the surface through that godawful platforming segment and only found some zanzibart forgive me lore i almost dropped the game right there.

>>721171813
You sound like a lying jewser

>>721171797
I liked HK and i think in most aspects Silksong is directly worse.

>>721156249 (OP)
they made a consistently challenging game but now have to rebalance it for speedrun and deathless achievements just because hollow knight had them

>>721171602
Hunter is not that hard to use. Keep coping.

>>721156431
found the pathologic player

>>721171580
it's by far the most obscure thing required, you start the path there by silk soaring from the bottom of the grand gate elevator

>>721171939
How so? My main problems with HK were the atrocious pacing and padding, along with how staggered the progression was.

>>721172365
>were the atrocious pacing and padding, along with how staggered the progression was.
Oh boy you're going to love silksong
The amount of padding and the pace of progression is even worse, and the entire act 3 barely has any progression to begin with, leaving you with nothing but shitty boss battler

>>721156249 (OP)
>Act 2 requires you to backtrack through basically the entire map to complete all sidequests to unlock Act 3
>Act 3 requires you to backtrack through basically the entire map to complete all sidequests, the main story, and find out what the vertical grappling hook unlocks
When they release the DLCs they better just add a fuck ton of areas, otherwise they cannot justify backtracking a quintillion more times

>>721168542
As long as you switched back to the bench by the Blasted Sands Bell Line that runback is both short and easy.

>>721172634
Backtracking is kino

>>721172634
>a Metroidvania game requires you to backtrack through basically the entire map

>>721172525
Shit, that's unfortunate to hear. I'll hold off for now and play Silksong at home and catch up on some RPGs and 1ccs in the interim I guess.

>>721173245
>I can't read
Mossfag fan

>>721171859
If you feel you need to be explicitly rewarded for every milestone in the game, it doesn't sound like you actually enjoy the game for its own sake. A drip feed of dopamine by way of item pickups or currency drops isn't going to change the fact that you don't enjoy the actual verbs involved in exploring the game's environments.

>>721173432
>If you feel you need to be explicitly rewarded for every milestone in the game, it doesn't sound like you actually enjoy the game for its own sake.
The dopamine rush from earning upgrades is a HUGE part of enjoyment in this genre. If you think otherwise, linear oldschool platformers may be better suited for you.

Every complaint of "too difficult, too tedious" is just an incapability of admitting the game is too hard for you. Humble yourself and play a game more your speed, like Ori.

>>721173621
How many actual upgrades can you stuff into a game without turning it into some boring statmaxxing autism shit? Hornet can already be equipped with a staggering combination of skills

>>721156314
>>721156431
Based

>>721173621
The enjoyment comes from exploration for exploration's sake.

>>721173798
>How many actual upgrades can you stuff into a game without turning it into some boring statmaxxing autism shit
Play other metroidvanias and find out
>combination of skills
A grand total of 6 passives and 3 actives, and most of them are boring shit, pathetic

>>721173973
No, the enjoyment comes from both exploration and the sense of getting stronger and more complex mechanically. It's literally the foundation for this genre.

>>721173741
Yes it's too tedious for me because over the years I've managed to differentiate what I want and don't want, what's stimulating from what just doesn't respect me and my time and it looks like Silksong is pushing many players to make this differentiation.
Also yes, Ori's better.

>>721173741
>too hard for you
Silksong is among the easiest metroidvanias if you actually use your tools, even lost lace is melted under a minute. But it's also one of the most drawn out, boring and unrewarding ones to explore. It almost feels like playing la mulana without anything that made la mulana good (puzzles) and with a ton of artificial limitations on top (can only swap weapons and tools on bonfires)

>>721173798
The feeling of growth is a major feature of these games. Growing stronger opens up more of the map and it's a big part of alleviating the pain inherent to backtracking since ideally you will be doing so with new tools each time both to run over enemies, unlock new areas, and make traversal more varied and fun.

>>721156249 (OP)
Video essayists need to get a real job

>>721174442
How does that answer my question, my dear generic chatgpt reply?

>>721156249 (OP)
Is this the Ori thread?

>>721173741
I've second-tried every boss in act one. Map exploration is a fucking chore.

>>721174635
you didn't first try lace, moss mother, the lava nigga & bell beast?

>>721174156
"Doesn't respect my time" is just code for "I failed the game's requirements and beating my head against the wall has grown tiresome." I hope for your sake you can understand what you truly feel.


>>721174419
La Mulana combat is fun. In fact everything about the game is "what made it good."

>>721156249 (OP)
too many people jumped on the train because of the memes and didn't know what they signed up for

>>721174798
Ok first-and-second-tried.

>every transport system has another map and they aren't superimposed on top of the main map when you use them
>some transport spots don't have markers on the main map and the makers you can place are ambiguous
>foreground decor parallaxing around making easy enemies hard
>random shortcut I'm probably not going to use

There are so many teleporting enemy, even on enemies that can fly, which is a compensations for the fact that Hornet is too mobile. You can out range and run circles around enemies. It's not a wonder that everything is a damage sponge or enemies would never have a chance against some one who masters dashing back and forth and hitting the attack button.

HK1 had some nice charms, like hive blood, to help you get through some tough movement challenges. SS brakes up those challenges really well and gives so much speed, that it doesn't feel as bad to run things back, but it still sucks when you're down to one mask in a parkour section.

The locations are amazing, but there isn't as much world building as I would expect. You get random bits of text here and there and that's it. Hornet is a robot. She says nothing memorable or relatable. Challenge and the aesthetic beauty of the areas is my only motivation.

Getting double jump and poking around everywhere I had neglected is making me extremely over powered for the remaining challenges in act II. There are way too many upgrades too late in the game. It's sad that many people will give up before they get to experience the unique builds that made HK1 so much fun. Team Cherry should have put in an easy mode, or let players meander around doing side quests in the early part of the game to power up. Advanced players would have pressed ahead like they always do. Even now, people are teasing each other about what cheesy builds they rely on, so I don't see the harm in letting players feel strong early on if they've earned it.

>>721174549
My point is that getting stronger is in itself the point. Also "statmaxxing" isn't really a thing in Metroid games but whatever.

>>721174891
>La Mulana combat is fun
Yes, unlike Silksong. Because it's entirely focused on fundamentals with only the gun breaking the balance. Silksong has clawline that removes any semblance of spacing and tools to melt bosses. LM also has vastly superior bosses.

>>721156945
at least the sidequests serve a narrative purpose

>>721156249 (OP)
i did not care for the first game but i like this one

I cleared out the Sands of Karak. All I got at the end was the conch shell tool. Is that really it? The thing better be damn good for the trouble I went through to get it.

Found the bench at the far right, the two stalactite shortcuts in the tall room, and a ledge high up on the right in the final room that doesn't seem to lead to anything. Is that it?

>>721175618
the conch is pretty good

>>721170431
Exactly and thats one of the many ways the game is intentionally misguiding its players so someone else can be a snob and correct them or they take a leap of faith to correct it

You die? Your shits left where you died,discouraging exploration
Non diagnal inputs? We recommend a controller for the "best experience"
Need a bench? Cool. Sure. Its trapped.

>>721175121
I don't think you're going to find anyone (who's played both) arguing that Silksong is better than La-Mulana

>>721175121
If you don't find the game fun, that's fine. My main comment in this thread has been that the complaints of difficulty/tedium are usually poorly veiled skill issues.

>>721175853
See, now you've made a mistake.
You're complaining about trapped benches and soulslike elements while trying to pretend you're on my side. I have every achievement in the game and the game should be harder. Controllers have directional keys btw, use those.
To filter retards like you more.

>>721175853
Well controller is still more instinctive for most people for a game like this. But yes I know, the optimal device for this is good keyboard. People play IWBTG and speedrun platformers on keyboards for a reason.

>>721176234
You already agreed to my point fuckass you cant take it back. Besides youre also proving my new point anyway that the game goes out of its way to teach you wrong and also for others to take the bait and get up on their high horse about it

>>721176524
tricking you with traps in supposedly safe areas is not "teaching you wrong"

>>721156249 (OP)
Another ai generated post

>>721156651
>from fromslopper opinion
Literally cant make this shit up lmao

>>721176591
Think about Hunters Marches bench and the fact that it can actually be disarmed. Most people are just gonna leave the area IF they dont die there. Up until that point disarming the traps isnt something that can normally be done.

Then theres Bilewood which just downright fucks you by screwing up your heal and that one you cant do anything about. So you sure about that?

>>721156249 (OP)
>we were heavily inspired by Dark Souls when making Hollow Knight, so what if we made the sequel like Dark Souls 2? That made a ton of money right?

>>721157132
>>721156651
people on /v/ are always so full of shit when a new hard game come out and they have to pretend it's somehow not. Elden Ring is a hard game, Silksong is a hard game, Ori is not a hard game by any stretch of the imagination.

It has the same design philosophy as Dark Souls 2.

>You will die over and over again AHAHAHAHHAHAH

>>721162845
>>721162886
kys niggers
it's a dishonest trash sequel, I'm already hoarding my rosaries because that's how the game wants me to play

>>721177195
>Dark Souls 2
Lmao
This is really the best way to describe Silksong

Jeepers this game are so much hated. I thought E33 was gonna most hated game of 2025 but this year have so manny hated flops of shits !!!

>>721177386
>it's a dishonest trash sequel,
This its so dishonest trashs

>>721177452
It really is the most hated game of 2025... noone on 4chan likes anything abt it...

>>721177428
>last good souls game before turned into rollslop

>>721156249 (OP)
Jesus I'm 13 minutes into the video and dudes built the strongest case against the game

>>721177807
This. I dont think this game gonna held up so well anymores....

>>721156249 (OP)
Gahtdayum, this might be one of the strongest cases against this game to date! Thank you OP! Saved me 20$!

>>721156249 (OP)
The Minimal Facts Argument is compelling. I don't think the lukewarm skeptics who think Silksong might not be bad can really disagree when so many experts agree.

>>721178083
This. All the experts agree on how dishonest a game Silksong is.

>>721178083
This is actually so true! I wanted to buy Silksong but based experts made me saved $20!

>>721178225
The dishonest gameplay and forced level design speak volumes

Certain parts are genuinely unfun and poorly designed
Groal the great has one of the worst runbacks I've ever seen. Even with the shortcut bench it's fucking atrocious if you dont have the purity wreath.
Then it's a small arena with 5 waves of enemies that hop in and out of the swamp, as well as an on field trap before the boss comes in. Oh and if you touch the swamp without the wreath say goodbye to silk LOL
The boss is only functional for the fact that none of his projectiles or vacuum attack work if you stay in the swamp, which is the only reasonable play for the 2nd phase where he spits out the giant soul attacks

I don't have the energy to comb over the entire world a third time. Any directional hints?
I suspect one of the mementos is fighting Shakra, but she just sits on her ass in Bellhart and gives repeating dialogue.

>>721178352
You can only fight shakra in act 2

>>721170431
why not just use the keyboard

>>721178318
This. And the experts agree -- Silksong is peak dishonest vibes all around.

>>721178335
>Certain parts are genuinely unfun and poorly designed
Every part is dishonest, as the experts point out.

>>721178297
>>721178225
>>721177886
Thaaaat's right fuckers fall back into irony it's the only thing you have left

>>721178083
The video is hella compelling for those of us who were on the fence about buying Silksong -- A.K.A.: Peak Dishonesty.

>>721178628
Those stans are so pathetic...

>>721156314
For me, I know it when I have a lot of fun with the game, but then inevitably give up anyways because I just can't do it. This happened to me with hollow knight, too. Fun games, love the gameplay, never finished hollow knight and I've been playing silk song since release and I can't even get through act one. I even gave up and broke my rule and looked up guides and watched videos and shit, I literally just suck that fucking bad at video games now. And I pretty much only have time for this shit for a few hours at night on the weekends, the rest of my time is full of work and taking care of my kids, so even if I make a tiny bit of progress, I wind up slamming my head into the wall for a couple of hours, going to bed, and then another week goes by and I've gone soft all over again.

>>721178628
LMAO theyre not even hiding the fact that there shitty metroidvania slop is our most hated game of 2025.

Ubisoft wins yet again as they have the superior metroidvania with actual fair difficult and its pricing isnt predatory shit.

>>721166678
Yeah with healing it can be 2 hits instead

>>721177195
I can't beat the ori games, either :(
I think my reaction time is suddenly awful or maybe I need glasses or something

>>721178948
have a (You), poor thing

>>721178948
How is this, all jokes aside?

>>721177428
This. No wonder /v/ calls ti the worst game of 2025.

>>721156314
See if you can put into words and judge weather the problem is skill based or design based, if the latter then thats that, if the former then assess your skill level and go from there
>>721156651
My problem with the game is that the design is contradictory, on one hand some fights are unbeatable without the right set up(dash, float, etc) on the other hand whenever you die you're *FORCED* to go back so you can recover your loot, so the devs want you to explore elsewhere while also forcing you to come back, obviously you can go take your loot and then run back but that's not intuitive and it's made harder by the design.
Other then that i think that some of the rooms are designed to be cancerous on purpose and that some of the crests are obsolete which are both gay as fuck, in dmc i had fun whenever i got a new weapon in HK dicklong i tried them once or twice then realised that they're complete and utter garbage, mostly because they're too same'y

>>721177428
>>721177195
>no debate against these points
I think Silksong might be the next TORtanic... this is concerning for Team Cherry...

>>721156249 (OP)
>no fun allowed
>I had fun
Bros, am I in trouble?

>>721166096
I've only seen HK shitters who cling to Wanderer and facefuck bosses while praying they die first and wonder why basic enemies are so hard when they don't have any tools besides flea juice

>>721179268
Based. There is really nothing good about DickLong.

>>721179301
Did you seriously enjoy our most hated game of 2025? Goddamn...

>>721177195
>people on /v/ are always so full of shit
Truvke

>>721170421
I played Wanderer for the first 25 hours of the game until I got the Witch one in act 2. You can be even more aggressive and I love it. and the heal just nukes everything around it with Flint on. cant make any mistakes though

this might be the first time since xenoblade 3 when 4chan has completely united against a game and has nothing positive to say about it

>>721172837
It's shit in any case, you just mash jump for a minute, waste of time

>>721179497
>pic
Kek thats the perfect way to describe the silksong reception on /v/

>>721179430
I just think the tedium of its bullshit outweighs actually still playing it, finally tipping delivering the fucking rasher. The real criticism I have is that it's nothing like fucking Hollow Knight. I could reccomend HK to literally any person on the planet, it wasn't about it being some weird ball busting hard game.

>>721179593
Didn't mean to reply.

>>721179593
I hated HK and still recommended it to people because I recognized its merits and felt that others would get more out of it than I did.

>>721171726
>2%
>only when you have a full bar
the boss would die before you hit it 100+ times

>>721179659
And dicklong on the other hand has no merits. its the most hated game of 2025.

>>721179137
it's pretty good. Don't pay for it.

>>721175618
there's more that unlocks later

>thread slows down
Debate over! Dicklong haters won the debate! Most hated game of 2025: confirmed!

>>721178083
>>721178661
What the fuck are you talking about?

>321 replies
>not one person has anything nice to say about silksong
7 years to make our most hated game of 2025 kekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

>>721179497
Anon only online and multiplayer games can be considered tortanic because they need an x ammout of players to play the game daily otherwise it dies quickly singleplayer games do not count.

>>721180823
I was just making a joke. Minimal Facts Argument is about the resurrection of Jesus based on historical evidence, it has nothing to do with Silksong.
I'm sorry.

So that arrow dash spell you get in the Wormways is basically Shadow Dash + Sharp Shadow, right? iframes and a second mobility option could be a gamechanger.

>>721160584
Silksong has none of the latter so we're confirming it's a skill issue then.

>>721170421
Is reaper hard mode? It's the crest I've been using and I feel so underpowered.

>>721178352
harp is in bilewater, hidden. keep looking. 1st momento, around citadel to greymoor(I think). 2nd, from sett. worst quest in the game

>>721181437
Yeah, except it uses silk.

>>721156249 (OP)
It feels like I'm playing on hard mode where they doubled enemy health and damage without consideration for balance or fun. But there is no hard mode, this is just how the game is.

>>721156992
silksong is mechanical as fuck, you find the boss pattern and then it's a test of patience because god forbid you break the pattern to try and sneak an extra hit in

the more i played it the more it couldn't disguise the fact i was just pressing buttons, bosses are so hardcoded that they just play on a loop, they don't actually aim at you, they just play their moves in the arena and it doesn't matter because they moves take up most of the arena

>>721182981
That's just the game saying we beed to be better players

>>721156314
I hate Monster Hunter. I hate grinding. Monster Hunter is bad.

>>721182556
Hard mode is Beast. Fucking no pogoing and if you fuck up you cant just press a button in the air and get back health

Naw nigga naw you gotta APPROACH things and mash

>>721183268
Yeah seeing >>721167950 gives me Inti Creates vibes. Not a bad thing per se, I like Inti bosses but still.

>>721182556
won't be dishing optimal dps until you used to boss' movesets/opening anyway which reaper is good for it

I'm a reaper addict. Love the reach, the pogo, the silk drops on heal, the sound effects, it's sooo good.

I tried Wanderer but it felt so puny, little pokes with a weak sound effect, tiny pogo, etc. I switched back, but now I'm thinking maybe I want more DPS bc I keep running out of shards all of a sudden. I can't rely on my tools to be available all the time, so I want to invest in spells instead.

My first impression was that Wanderer was S tier bc Quick Slash is broken. It's turned out to be true now that we have more info hasn't it?

>>721156249 (OP)
Modern game "design philosophy" is genuinely fucking cancer, and the more I think about it the more I realize it's one of the primary reasons modern video games are so fucking boring.

People will point towards fights when talking about difficulty but the main issue nowadays comes from everything outside of that. Modern AAA game design is fully committed towards making everything outside of combat as mindless as possible.

>35 minutes of whining
Respect my time. Comport your thoughts don't crudely edit a streaming rant.

I did all the sidequest so I finally progressed the story. Lace into Silk mommy. Boom, end.
I did my best to not get spoiled but the only thing I knew was that there was an act 3. confusion.jpg

Turns out I had to find a new quest after Lace. I'm not booting it back up. Fuck you that's my ending.

didn't read, frogslop AVATAR user. get banned

>>721156249 (OP)
It's nowhere near as hard as any Soulslike. It's not even as hard as Hollow Knight.

>>721185252
my dick is hard looking at her

>>721183815
No, architect and witch are s tier, wanderer is A tier, Reaper, Shaman, and Hunter are B tier, Beast is C tier

>>721156249 (OP)
Nothing. It plays exactly like the first game

is there any easy mod or something?
i haven't played yet, don't want to play if it's much harder than original game that was enough for me.

>>721177357
the worst thing from that statement is that the motherfucking game punishes dying.

>>721177452
E33 is an oversold game, nobody hates the game, people have come to become annoyed by all the shilling, great game but shilled to death, and once it wins GOTY will be shilled until GTA shut the normalfags up.

Bananza isn't hated, is the "goofy" DK's design the game itself is great

Trails is one schizo saying that it got censored

the others deserve to be thrashed tho.

>>721178948
>its pricing isnt predatory shit.
this game main issue more that the WE WUZ MC was the fucking price, it bombed specifically for that.

>>721156249 (OP)
female protagonist
female npcs
female bosses

>>721164101
I only took a lot of tries on him because I was determined to beat him right then and there before getting the dash.
Then once I beat him i turned right around and left because clearly I wasn't supposed to be there yet.

>>721165265
I wouldn't dislike this, except with Sister Splinter where her falling on top of you on stagger is part of the fight, and her falling is blatantly telegraphed.

>>721178225
>experts
Is this what journos call themselves since the name/title game journalismis dead and a joke?

>>721156249 (OP)
>no fun allowed!
but I had fun... how is that possible if it wasn't allowed?

>>721166096
I use Reaper mainly because I personally favor a bit and run style which Reaper facilitates better IMO.

>>721156249 (OP)


Act 3 is terrible and I fully expected this. It is the same old boss rush + no-retry platforming shitshow from HK.

It isn't the difficulty, it is the fact it was lazily put together with minimal effort. TC is so fucking lazy.

Act 3 is very blatantly designed to be difficult for the sake of extending play time and making you feel like you got more playtime out of it when in reality it has very little content.

For example the platforming when getting out of the abyss or when going to the nameless town has intentionally no flat surfaces to make you have to restart from the beginning even when you take 1 damage from the hazards. It's really obvious that is what they are going for because otherwise these areas are empty of content, but take longer because of this design. The Abyss was again very dissapointing like in HK because they couldnt think of anything itneresting to do with the new area, instead they put lazy platforming to extend your time in the area.

Then you have bosses that teleport on top of you or have a second phase which is literally fast-forward on their attacks. There is nothing to do outside these bosses so it is practically a boss rush.

They just added the same attack to every common enemy in the game. They don't even reward anything new for beating them. What were they even thinking?

TC is so fucking lazy.

>>721190684
So you didn't get good?

>>721190820
Get a job kid

>finally get to beast fly 3
>takes like 3 attempts
Using default needle, dont even have dice yet, did people just not use their fire charm for the adds?

>>721190684
Content padding was Team Cherry's MO to begin with. That's why you have to fucking pay for maps.

>>721190684
>>For example the platforming when getting out of the abyss or when going to the nameless town has intentionally no flat surfaces to make you have to restart from the beginning even when you take 1 damage from the hazards. It's really obvious that is what they are going for because otherwise these areas are empty of content, but take longer because of this design.
by the time you get there you should be more than capable of extended platforming without any breaks or safe reset spots

>>721156249 (OP)
>What went wrong?
watching 20 speed runners play your game not your actual audience of thousands

>>721190684
>durr why is the game testing my consistency on a platforming challenge
You retards really just wanted to be handed every win despite making a billion mistakes.

>Experts
>Design
>Philosophy
>Micropalaeontology
HAHAHAHAHAHAH GET GOOD

is lace 3rd fight optional or something?

>>721178567
there is an action queue instead of animation cancels so if you have fighting game brain like me you'll rip by dashing or pogo'ing at really weird times

>>721190919
Gonna cry?

>>721156314
you can be good at a game that sucks and suck at a game that is good.

>>721156651
Sekiro is fun but Elden Ring is not. As someone who sucks at games I don't want to wait for a 30 second attack animation to get 0.5 second opportunity to poke for 1 damage and then have to repeat that 300 times without making a mistake.

>>721191473
You're a tranny loser faggot, I beat Silksong easily with a trainer, it was a terrible and alzy game.

It straight up isn't as good as the first game, that's all
turns out having to fight flying enemies every 5 seconds isn't fun

>>721190684
going to nameless town was supposed to be the final test (at least before dlc stuff)
of course it was not going to be very forgiving
but it was too short imo

>game throws some bullshit enemy or fight at me
>throw down all 12 of these bad boys
>don't have to do anything

not my problem

"what went wrong" threads are the laziest threads made on /v/. It screams "come to my thread guys my other thread died" and it shows in the contents of the thread itself. Full of lazy whiny faggots crying that they got ass fucked in a 2D kids game. Coomer threads have more integrity

>multiple trap benches in areas designed to deprive you of them for a long time
>multiple areas dedicated to being prisons you have to complete to return to the rest of the game
>some benches are pay per use
>just the ability to save becomes locked behind steeper rosary costs
>ability to fast travel has to be purchased per area
>go through entire sections of the game with zero reward for it
I love Silksong but there's definitely some spite built into it.

>boss teleports to dodge into you
>contact damage
did some indian design this

>>721191776
Only problem I have with Nameless Town, apart from not being White Palace length, is the garpedes.
They should be invincible, it's too tempting and easy to farm heals off them.

>>721191921
Which boss? The only teleports that can land on top of you are alrdy deterministic.

>>721191906
>He didn't disharm the trap benches
Are /v/tards this dumb?

>>721191921
I don't mind contact damage. I've always seen it as the enemy quickly attacking you for being so close just without animation. But the 2 masks of damage is getting obscene as the game progresses. In most cases that's 1/3 of people's health.

>>721179497
shazamfags no longer share reality with everybody else

>>721192004
What? I disarmed it eventually, just not initially. It's led to a death the first time because I didn't expect it in Hunter's March.

basic ass game design 101 is that projectiles shouldn't be doing as much damage as a melee hit
why the fuck should i be taking 2 masks of damage cause a fuckass boss decides to spam projectiles

>>721191906
Consider the following: You only perceive it as spite because you're a massive bitch who lacks functioning testes.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU HANDLE LOST LACE PHASE 2 WHAT THE FUKC IS THAT I CAN'T SEE SHIT THE WHOLE SCREEN IS BLACK GOO

>>721156249 (OP)
trying again, aren't we?

Basic game design 101 where the fuck is my yellow paint and easy mode

>>721192225
surely this time it'll make all those sales disappear

>>721192131
just chill and don't panic dash/jump
the places where she spawns are quite predictable

>>721192225
its just clickbait for /v/tards

>>721192226
you're a retard defending shit design, i'm on act 2 nigger

I'm on lost lace and I'm genuinely thinking about just cheating at this point, on the final boss. Whose idea was it to make the 3rd phase a bunch of solid black attacks on a solid black background?

>>721183439
I want to use a mod to start with Beast crest in a run so I can force myself to use it all game. Might be fun.

>>721192442
You suffer from severe skill issue.
You do not belong anywhere near challenging games and discussion related to them.

Don't open /v/ bros

>>721156249 (OP)
>waves of trash mobs boss fight
I sleep
This is a good example of Silksong is padded out way too much

>silkshills crash out the second the game isn't declared a 10/10 by everyone
Totally normal behavior. You're right! It's the perfect game. Don't bother trying to find some tiny annoyance to nitpick now to pretend you have critical thinking. You've outed yourselves to the world as shitgulpers.

>>721192775
This nigga stuck on nomral mobs in waves lol

>>721156249 (OP)
Nothing went wrong with the design outside of cash drainage quests.
But it does have bugs as advertised, I died near a locked door and I'm guessing this is why they added those silk cocoons.

>>721192442
Act 2 and already foaming at the mouth like a rabid raccoon, damn. If you’re melting down this hard now, good luck when you hit Spine Hollow’s tether fights - hope your neighbors enjoy the sound of drywall getting punched. Either adapt or uninstall, it’s that simple.

>>721157369
not fake hard. theyre smart hard. if you use your brain and be creative there are ways to cheese the bosses. Troonsong forces you to play the game the way the devs want u to play.

>>721158657
Honeymoon era and more troons around

>>721192816
if given the chance you'd become a journo
you already suck at games and all you're missing is a platform to shit on a medium you suck at

>>721192984
>cant cheese
>malds
Perfect. THIS. THIS right here is why silksong is good

The game is cheap as fuck, full of artificial difficulty and time wasting.

>>721156249 (OP)
Honestly yeah I truly don't enjoy this game. It's not even hard just tedious as fuck and I feel like the platforming is slightly off unlike HK or maybe my controller is shit idk

>>721192984
not really
you can avoid learning most bosses' phase 2 / 3 by spamming tools
but since shards are limited shitters still complain

Hey Discord sissys do you like losing?

>struggle with High Halls gauntlet for several hours with reaper
>equip wanderer
>1st try it no diff
>youtube throws a video with crest damage tests
>reaper is the worst in damage, dps, literally everything
Legit can't remember a bigger noob trap in recent games

>>721192912
Yeah the cocoon positions are predetermined based on which cell you were in when you died, and some cells just leak too far.

how do you get silk hearts?

>>721167950
I didn't demand shit, first of all. I saw a game I thought I would like and then played it. YOU, however, are demanding an entire new game be designed for you. What would an "easy" mode even look like? No double damage? OK, but shittiers like you will still get filtered by enemy AI and the platforming. By the time the game is made brain dead enough for you, it'll have lost all personality. Just play something else you entitled faggot. You talk about my fragile ego when you don't even have enough humility to admit you just don't like the game. Fuck off and die.

>>721193015
>someone has a problem with a videogame
>you have a meltdown
>jumping to schizo conclusions
Brother, you're already a journo. You just do it for free.

>>721192879
Have sex virgin

>>721192984
Use poison tools baby boy. Try not to run out of shards lil gup lol lmao

>>721193307
reaper excels in pogo

>>721173741
Dilate

>>721193372
>n-no u
Ah shit who let the tendies out of their threads.

Balancing is shit. Killing a big enemy gives me the grandiose amount of... 10 shards... Which is like 2 tool throws. Its shit.

>>721173741
You got em

>>721156249 (OP)
Unironically way too long
It's a 20 hour game padded out to 60+ via malicious game design
It's a total scam; the Shadows of the Erdtree of Hallow Knight

>>721193607
That means you can use a couple of tools to kill the big enemy, and still leave the screen with a net positive if you include what all the small enemies drop.
And if you leave every screen with a net positive. How could you ever be hurting for shards?

>>721192657
I still don't have any reliable plan for dealing with these guys. And those two creeps want me to collect their guts.
Are common enemies more deadly in Silksong compared to HK? I think so

I love these cope threads.

>>721193702
>exploring in metroidvanias is LE BAD
>tons of bosses and gauntlets is LE BAD
We get it little bro you looked for the yellow paint and found none

>>721193707
Oh shut up, some bosses like the act 3 dream bosses don't waste shards so that shows you team cherry doesn't know what the fuck are they doing with shards.

I'm at lace and I have to go all the way up to buy fucking shards. Farming these niggers gives you 10 miserable shards.

>>721193793
they punish you for being greedy just wait for them to attack then hit em. After the quest just ignore them

Seeing people complain about how hard this game is is selling me on it more than anything else and I didn't even like HK

>>721193702
Please read
>>721193828
There's lots of fun exploring gigantic rectangles. You ever find cracked walls and found 23 delicious rosary waiting for you? Or how about a room with nothing in it and has no purpose but a lore note that says "Life sucks but fuck me anyway?"

>>721193362
Yes retard it's a dlc for hollow knight that's expecting you to have beaten that and the dlcs before playing. Yes I did expect more of that. Thank you. Retard.

>>721156314
If the game requires using a guide or experience playing previous games it's bad.
It makes sense for a romhack to have bs difficulty because they don't have to worry about selling it.

>>721194024
>I just deconstructed it down to the very basics. Don't you feel silly now?
Dude all games are just le pressing buttons get real hobby lol

I'm looking forward to this game's DLC
bosses and areas that really push the limits of hornet's moveset

>>721193793
Come on now.

>>721194032
What are you even on about?

>>721194213
>ignored the rest of the post
Did you brain just crap out after 7 words? Does that happen to you regularly?

I'm glad people are realizing Skong sucks ass. At least we get a lot of art out of it

>>721156249 (OP)
everytime i saw people bitching about the difficulty and posting clips of their gameplay it's always the most dogshit gameplay i've ever seen. people were ecstatic to see vinny playing this game because he sucks at difficult games but he's been first-fourth trying all bosses and having fun so people are now angry because he's just proving people are shitters who blame the game.

and most of the legitimate balancing issues i had in act 1 turned out to be valid as the devs started patching things like stage hazards doing 2 damage.

I'm on act 3, on the 3 hearts mission, I heard from some dude that there are 4 hearts to collect?

>>721194265
My mistake. Forgot I should come back later in the game when they give themselves large openings to attack, I have a crest to knock them back more and can do more damage.

nothing went wrong, just 100%ed the game, 10/10 for me, devs should make more

>>721194284
Its a nihilism post I don't have to read all of your post. You know why? Becasue its pointless lol there is no meaning. You get it nihilism bro

>>721183439
I just switch back to beast after trying out a new crest. The others just aren't as fun to use.

>>721194527
They always stand still after lunging. Are you ok?

>>721194315
The knight owns hornet in a 1v1 any day.Thats a fact. Also get good

Lost lace does 2 damage WIRH EVERY ATTACK.
This is a meme at this point. Not a single attack does normal damage. Even contact damage deals 2 damage.

>>721194673
Lost Lace should do 3 masks of damage.
Unironically.

>>721194671
suck my dick
still left a negative review
nothing you can do but cope and cry as that score slowly descends

>>721194813
If it hits you while healing you lose all the silk, the healing and you eat damage.

This game is too punishing.

>>721194814
oh nyoooo don't leave a hecking bad review. Now its doooooomeeed

>>721194673
i imagine you had the same complaints about nkg, pure vessel and radiance in hk1.

>>721194813
her circle spinny attacks do
but nobody really falls for those

>>721194868
Why should you be able to heal for 3 masks without any risk?

I watched a few people not understand the last judge fight now I am red pilled to silksong haters. Just stand in the gaps holy shit

Sands of Iraq is such a dogshit unfun area. They do not know how to make fun platforming level design

>>721156249 (OP)
there are legitimate complaints about this game but difficulty and exploration is not one of them, and they're rarely brought up.

>>721194940
Yes, double hit is and always will be a cheap shit artificial difficulty trick, you can make bosses deal normal damage, two damage with certain attacks and still be challenging.

Make everything insta kill you now you are at it. Balancing doesn't exist and there is no point to game design, so let's shit the bed.

And I have 100% already, and I still think it's shit. I didn't enjoyed at all, it was a chore.

>>721156431
If it's not fun, why bother?

>there is no time to heal in boss fights
This just tells my you are a greedy jew and use the stun phase for spam attacks

>>721195009
You shouldn't, 3 damage heal is retarded. It takes a lot more mana than in hollow knight

>>721156249 (OP)
It doesn't teach us to become better men.

>>721195310
healing 3 health in both games takes the exact same amount of soul.

>>721195382
It takes more time which leaves you more exposed to enemies.
>But you can in air
Enemies are more aggressive and have aereals so it doesn't matter.

I'm sure that you would consider a good charm a full heal that leaves you immovable for 10 seconds.

>>721195091
Nah, exploration is pretty middling. Game is fuckhuge and there are a ton of dead ends with literally nothing, let alone some fetch quest item, or minuscule currency

>>721193938
>I'm at lace and I have to go all the way up to buy fucking shards.
No offence. But 800 shards + whatever shard items you had in your inventory. Wasn't enough?

>>721195475
it takes a fraction of a second longer than it takes in hollow knight to heal 1. also hornet is so fast that moving far away enough from enemies to safely heal is genuinely trivial.

>>721156314
I hated Sekiro while I was playing it for the first time, but looking at the mechanics, gameplay, level design, I knew the game was well designed, fair and had an interesting world, essentially I couldnt find any flaws, so I wanted to get good and see what the game had to offer, and it was a captivaring and very fun experience. The opposite happened with Silksong.

>>721195475
>It takes more time which leaves you more exposed to enemies.
No. It's the same time. And being able to do it in the air, and being able to run away from your enemy faster. Both contribute towards healing being much, much safer and likely to succeed.
>>721195575
>it takes a fraction of a second longer
It does? Looks the same to me.

>>721156314
Ask people to post clips of their gameplay and the answer will become painfully clear to you.

>>721160014
Bait

>>721195726
>It does? Looks the same to me.
well would you look at that. and you don't even have to hold the button.

its punishing me with WoW-style grinding that I can't stand. MMO quests have no place in a metroidvania. That's when mods come in handy. Wasting time =/= "challenge"

>>721196009
you don't need to do them if you don't want to.

>>721156651
The obvious answer everyone is too gay to say is that those are MASCULINE games so normal straight men can actually have fun playing them.

>>721183815
Discussions about game design and philosophy doesn't matter anymore because troons will say
>Git gud
It's the perfect defense. Devs can do whatever the fuck they want because hivemind drones defending them will say git gud

>>721196258
lol masculine games are COD and ball games sissy

>>721167950
this looks dope as shit.

>>721196343
This. Silktroon defenders are rabid.

I'm waiting for a balance mod made by GOOD autists that fixes this mess of a game
>Contact damage is now 1 damage except certain enemies
>Stunned enemies deal no contact damage
>Normal attacks deal 1 damage and 2 damage is reserved for clearly 2 damage attacks and heavy enemies
>Shards get deleted from the game
>Every annoying runback gets a bench at the end, every boss gauntlet lasts only once and retrying puts you directly vs the boss
>Charms have no limits like hollow knight and some rebalancing for shit crests
Maybe then I will replay this game

>>721196343
>>721196502
Git gud though.

>>721196343
>>721196502
ahem. GIT GOOD

>>721193362
I'm demanding the game to be playable for multiple levels of skill and not just You. And I've literally done all bosses without taking a single hit and you're still calling me a shitter for having a difference opinion like do you have shit for brains or what?

>>721196573
I'm already gud, thanks.

>>721196573
Already at 100%. I still think the game sucks at dark soulsII/Elden ring levels of bullshit.

No I will not do steel mode because I have a life and people copy-paste saves anyways so what's the point.

>>721196568
Just watch someone play lil gup. Its not for you

>>721196627
>>721196682
Prove it.

Is there anything missable before Act 3?

>>721196682
>Elden ring levels of bullshit
HAHAHAHAHA
Elden "baby shit" ring?

I hate silksong fags sooooo much. They need to know how bad everything is

>>721156651
sekiro and elden ring are difficult in terms of execution, but not punishing (i.e. most checkpoints are placed just before a boss, you can spend resources to not lose them easily, etc)
compared to silksong where it's also difficult AND slightly punishing (by having runbacks, gauntlets, etc)
old games used to be simpler in terms of execution, but very punishing (like needing to play the whole game again)

>>721196765
You retards think difficulty=good game design. You can't comprehend that people can beat things and still not enjoy the experience. Or that they can play easy games and have fun. Speedtrannies have rotten your brain.

>>721196875
Where's proof though?

>>721196856
>in terms of execution
you mean rotating clockwise around an enemys asshole?

>>721196828
Bullshit as sponge bosses, attacks that oneshot you, it's not direct examples but a design philosophy that looks for difficulty first no matter what and game design last, even if it harms the game.

Runs backs are padding, 2 damage is padding, shards are padding. It's only wasting your time the same way old games were difficult to make them appear longer.

>>721196682
You can just reset the game any time you're about to die, right?

>>721197008
That might be the lamest shit ever.

>>721197008
That's just a non intended roundabout. My god, you are so fucking idiots, you truly can't get out of your hivemind. Absolute animals.

>>721196875
I don't want to play any of the modern platformers because they all have this troon mentality, I can't take a 2d Indy platformer seriously enough to want to invest time to get good at it. So I just end up not playing them

>>721193793
keep your distance and wait til they jump to hit them. hitting them while they jump will push them back a bit. this works for a ton of small enemies who pounce when they attack, like the small spiders or fluffy bell dudes. they usually do two jumps in succession so wait until the second one if you're a pussy (you can just push them away twice just learn the timing). don't try to pogo them bc they'll grab you midair. and grab the attention of all of them in the room and when they're together throw a bomb at them or whatever tool you got. they can climb the cages sometimes so don't trust em. it was rare for common enemies in HK to deal double damage so yeah these suck in comparison. losing two masks for everything is stupid and i hate it

>>721190919
Stop playing challenging games, grandpa. Save those synapses to remember your granchildren or whatever

I beat the game yesterday and I still think the difficulty is way overtuned. By the end of the game, every area just feels like a tedious slog to explore and bosses go from a fun challenge to overcome to a fight you're just relieved is over. Ironically, this game probably would've been better if it had just come out 2 years ago instead of the developers deciding to huff their own farts.

>>721197229
>troon
Imagine sucking on a fat hard troon cock. You hard? I bet you are pol boi

>>721196998
abso-fucking-lutely

>>721197294
Lace is just a meme with all the 2 damage and spam. For a moment I expected to see beastflies flying around.

>>721156249 (OP)
>play game
>fun
>friends play game
>fun, one has a lot of trouble at first though
>watch people online playing it
>fun, some hate the shitty runbacks
>go to /v/
>it's the worst game ever ackshually
oh ok. my bad.

the Virgin git gud:
>bought the game to "support indie developers"
>cares about Steam achievements
>spends 10 hours stuck on a boss
>"aksually, Reaper is really bad"
>works himself into a sheer frenzy doing boss runbacks dying to flies on the way
>does every quest before proceeding
>plays to 100 percent
>has multiple tabs open on /v/, Steam reviews and metacritic from dusk to dawn scathingly insulting anyone who slightly criticizes the game

the Chad having fun:
>bored and hears about some overhyped sidescroller
>downloads the game
>play unpatched version w/ mods
>plays Reaper
>beats boss on 2nd try
>never finished the game because Stacy was calling him to bed

is witch crest missable?

>find secret room
>30 fucking rosaries
>but I get to be cornered by gigantic enemy
>find a new path
>items teased behind walls and cages
>need to go through a dozen rooms to get it
>shard bundle
>fight boss and win in a few tries
>just more giant rooms with the same three enemies I fought before the boss
>do each sidequest I can
>half of them just give you rosaries
Padding is right. At this point it's not exciting to explore most of the map. In most cases even when you find new tools, charms or crests you won't use them. It's only once in a while you actually switch stuff out. This is the most unrewarding metroidvania I've ever played.

>>721193307
this but with the first sinner. spent like half an hour trying with reaper only to beat it in three tries with wanderer. it was so fast too, felt like a completely different game. now im rocking the architect one and im actually having fun

>>721197391
Imaging your average /v/tard as DSP and it makes a lot of sence

>>721197793
everytime i explored i ran into mask shards and spool fragments. i genuinely don't know what the fuck people are doing when they say they don't find anything useful. even the rosary beads are good because they're basically wanderer's journals/hallownest seals/king's idols that you don't need to go elsewhere to cash in.

>>721195726
So do people not even remember Hollow Knight correctly when they say Silksong's healing is worse?
What makes them think it is?

>>721198348
If Hollow Knight came out today with the same leve of popularity Silksong has, people would be bitching about everything about it.

>>721198120
Then you explored very little or used a guide. There's tons of hidden areas, walls to break, and other shit and 90% of it is shit. It's like saying you "explored" Skyrim and only went to dungeons with word walls.

>>721198767
>n-no you don't count, you probably (made up bullshit)
i now understand why people just say "git gud" at you retards and move on.

>>721197793
Yep, and somehow people delude themselves into thinking otherwise. That one dude just said that “you don’t have to go elsewhere to cash in money, so it’s a good reward.” It being currency means you have to backtrack to get any use out of it at all. And there are items that you just cash in, like the historical artifacts. Or the fetchquest shit.

>>721198845
>claims to have explored game
>only mentions the shit that makes up 1/10 of the shit you can find
>somehow didn't find the other 9/10 of the game
You're full of shit, pal. At this point you either used a guide and can't defend yourself because you didn't play the game right, or you don't know what basic words like explore mean and can't find hidden rooms.

>>721198875
>This game economy is fucked!
>But the game giving you money is bad!
Which is it? Also if you don't like using tools and charms that's not the game's fault

>"go back and farm money to proceed"
>lol no

fuck these pretentious devs

>>721198845
>tempted to say “git gud” when it doesn’t make any sense because he can’t handle criticism for the game
you people are truly pathetic. there are tons of dead ends with nothing. I just ran into one in memoriam that only had some dumb lore about “stasis”. And there’s a whole shit section about wall jumping and hitting spiky balls in Karak that has a completely empty dead end and then the ultimate reward is a fetchquest item

>>721199063
I killed lace with no shards left. I swear if I didn't defeat her I was going to chop my dick off. Shard system is stupid

>>721199028
Who the guck mentioned the economy, retard? But yes, economy is slightly fucked in act 1 for rosaries and slightly fucked in act 2 for shards, if you want use tools, which I do. Getting 20 every now and then and having a fraction fall onto spikes doesn’t make much of a dent, nor feel rewarding, stupid

>>721198120
>>721198845
>silkshills haven't even played the game
This is crazy to me. It's the most played game right now with constant threads. People will immediately know you're full of shit.

>>721199019
>the shit that makes up 1/10 of the shit you can find
>38 collectibles (shards and spool fragments)
>+ 58-ish tools/charms/skills
>1/10
and i did find the other stuff, but masks and fragments stood out to me more because i was quite literally running into them constantly. you also brought up the tools and charms that you "won't use", but i did. and 99% of the time, the rooms that contain beads and shards are super fucking easy to find one-offs that barely have any build up, i genuinely cannot fathom how you can be disappointed at those enough to ruin your perception of this game's exploration.

the only true fail is the shards because i think the shard system as a whole is retarded, but THAT was barely 1/10 of the secrets you'd find with exploring. you're the one who's full of shit.

>>721199462
Plus, half the rosary beads and shards were not even in some secret room but directly in your path or just off to the side in a big room. I think some people shit their pants about the "unrewarding" exploration mostly because they didn't like the shard system AND the charm system, not because there's nothing to find.

>>721199462
>but masks and fragments stood out to me more
Which overrides all the other shit you mentioned then.
>you also brought up the tools and charms that you "won't use", but i did. and 99% of the time
No you did not. You did not use every fucking charm and tool in the game. What kind of retard plays like that? Did you change your build at every bench?
>the rooms that contain beads and shards are super fucking easy to find
Just like the other collectibles. And if they're super easy I guess there must be a lot I'm constantly running into right? Almost as if its the majority of what's to find? And the other shit isn't? Which is why you had to pause and google this shit up for so long before replying.