Thread 723362089

It's actually insane how normalized save states/rewind are among zoomers. They actually don't even think it's cheating and are completely unable to comprehend that it totally ruins the experience by neutering all sense of stakes, tension, and mastery.

>>723362089 (OP)
Why do uncs get so triggered by how others choose to play a damn game

>>723362089 (OP)
are you trying to argue that boomers beat blood or shadow warrior without quicksaves on their first run? lmao

>>723362089 (OP)
My arcade playing uncle said this about NES games and saves.

It's acceptable if you already played the game a billion times and don't want to deal with tedious bullshit

>>723362191 You did >>723362238 not beat >>723362241 the game.

legitimately who gives a shit?

I don't care what anyone does as long as they do it away from me

>>723362089 (OP)
Old PC games were all about quicksaves. Why do they get a pass?

I'm ALWAYS ON DUTY

>>723362329
You should give a shit because games are fun and savestates/rewind take the fun away
>>723362396
No one held a gun to ur head to hit F5/F6 over and over

>>723362089 (OP)
of course save states are normalized, zoomers aren't playing on original hardware they're playing on emulators. that said I do quite like savestates in retro JRPGs so I can actually just save whenever instead of needing to hunt down a save point, made my first run of SMT2 much more bearable.

I beat all the marios on my all star game. sorry grampa i got no time to play nes.

>>723362089 (OP)
Modern games all have save systems that literally let you save anywhere or have checkpoints so generous you never have to worry about losing progress. Is it really any suprise?

>>723362443
>take the fun away
How?

>>723362443
no one held a gun to your head to hit load savestate and rewind over and over

Agreed with OP, unless you've beat the game before and are doing things like 2x speeding thru shit like final fantasy. Mastery of these old games comes from the repetition of getting back to where you were, with states or rewind i do not believe you beat the game . There is nothing like becoming a god at old retro games because you know the level like the back of your hand
That said zoomers have serious issues with consequences etc.

>>723362089 (OP)
Beating video games is not an accomplishment and nobody gives a fuck if you completed a game, if you beat then so did hundreds of other people. Play it however you want.

>>723362361
emulation doesn't mean save states jackass. Have some fucking decency and self control

>>723362089 (OP)
this argument only works when the mechanic of dying over and over is narratively intended

doesnt work when the game designer is retarded and or wants to waste my time. i have other games to consume and games are literally not even fun

>be me
>be 14 years old in the 90s
>playing SNES game, very hard
>buy a magazine that has a walkthough
>now I can beat the game

i dont play games to "beat them", i play them to experience them. and sometimes that involves me using a gameshark, or cheat codes, or exploits, or mods, or emulators. sometimes i dont even need to finish the game to feel i 'experienced it' enough to move on. games are entertainment, not chores. anyone who likes the challenge of 100%ing difficult games/modes is fine to feel that way, but that is literally a small minority of how most actual gamers interact with their games. most gamers never complete 90% of the games they start. it doesnt mean they wasted their money/time, as long as they enjoyed the experiences they had playing the game.

>>723362563
There are people who tracked every single bird in RDR2 to "beat the game"

>>723362089 (OP)
All games should have save states.

>>723362563
You are ruining the experience for yourself motherfucker, how can you not understand that?

>>723362625
You are not getting the real experience of the game when you fucking use save states, what part of that is hard to understand you dense motherfucker? These games are actually not even that hard when you don't condition yourself like a fucking pavlov's dog for your fucking save states to the point where you don't even think or pay attention at all.

>>723362089 (OP)
I agree completely with him but don’t whip myself into histrionics over it. I’m just gonna poke fun at you if you lie by omission by saying you beat a game, and then I have to coax out of you whether or not you used cheats or savestates to beat it.
I also don’t think that the CRPG quicksaving comparison really holds much water since those games are designed with that feature in mind.

>>723362089 (OP)
>use rewind
>say the game's good
I'll allow it
>use rewind
>say the game's bad
faggotry at critical mass

>2019

/v/ really ran out of things to talk about when there's nothing but decade old bait.

>>723362396
Those games were designed that way, its entirely different. There is nothing stopping a console game from letting you save and load wherever you want, and there are pc games that do not allow it.

>save states and rewind are now normalized on fucking /v/ of all places
this place is fucking done for. brown zoomer muttoids have overtaken

>>723362690
And why do you care how other people experience things stupid ass?

>>723362690
It's nice to know that among all the normalfaggotry that infested this place, there are still some people with worrying, profound levels of autism.

>>723362690
>You are not getting the real experience of the game when you

i'm not interested in the 'real experience' of a game, im interested in my experience of the game. ill use mods, cheats, hacks, exploits, command lines, hex editors, gamesharks, game genies, whatever i want to make the game how i want.

>>723362815
at least half of the posters on /v/ are retarded kids who play fortnite

>>723362191
Zoomers tell one another they didn't beat the game over mechanics that were deliberately included in Souls games all the time.

>>723362089 (OP)
>caring at all about how people play games that came out closer to kennedy's assassination than today

>>723362089 (OP)
Oh shit son, some literal who random faggot on the internet said literally anything. Better make a thread about it.

>>723362321
If you use those features, you're not beating the game, if you beat it years ago on real hardware then you already beat the game, you're just not beating it again.

Fast forward is fine. Rewind and save states are not.

Save states are cheating simple as

>>723362883
In the easiest game in the series, no less.

>>723362851
>save state abusers are gachapiggy seamonkeys
not even surprised

>>723362915
>If you use those features, you're not beating the game
I'm sure they all care about your opinion.

Game overs are an outdated game mechanic that was meant to milk more quarters out of you by making you lose a large amount of progress. Save states are fine.

/v/ can never shit on games journalists again after all these embarrassing posts defending cheating.

>>723362906
You watch your fucking mouth. That’s the comedic genius behind The Loco Bandito.

You both didn't beat it and it really fucking doesn't matter if you did or not.
Single player games are fun to break and abuse.

>>723362191
Why should you be considered on par with anyone who didn't use save states or rewind?

I savestated my way through the early castlevanias.
I don't think I beat the game, but this is better than simply losing interest and not playing through the whole game.

>>723362191
Their lives peaked when they beat castlvania 3 on a real NES back in 1990

>>723362987
Literally who?

/v/ Truly is lost if they think that beating a video game is an accomplishment. You're still going to wake up in the same dark room staring at the ceiling with nobody to roll over and wrap your arm around.

>>723362690
>These games are actually not even that hard when you don't condition yourself like a fucking pavlov's dog for your fucking save states to the point where you don't even think or pay attention at all.
This is the funniest part. Save state cheaters are such lobotomized cattle that they are literally worse at the games with their save states than purists are without save states.

>>723362982
It’s an old design, but that doesn’t make it outdated.

>>723362982
Watch a justplay on Youtube if you don't want to actually play the game.

>>723363047
What "par," you fucking retard? It's a fucking single player game.

>>723362089 (OP)
it's true that most zoomers are big pussies about games now, but also who gives a shit how people play honestly. let them think they won.
>>723362241
That's a little different since arcade games were designed to eat quarters. NES games were the first games you owned that had endings.

>>723362982
What quarters in console games?

>>723362915
>if you beat it years ago on real hardware then you already beat the game
Wrong. You have to beat the game once per year while streaming live with angles on your face, hands and original hardware to make the claim you ever beat the game. Otherwise you're just a has-been, but worse, you're a says-he-was with a pocket full of stories and nothing to back up your claim.

>>723362984
It’s been like this here for a long time. I only keep coming back because there are still some people I see eye to eye with still posting here. This latest crop of young posters is just awful.

>>723362089 (OP)
This is correct but people always go about arguing it (spamming "you didn't beat the game") in such retarded fashion.
All it took to change my mind on this was beating Hell on Spelunky HD. The amount of excitement and triumph I felt after persevering through multiple mistakes and so many failed runs would have been utterly robbed of meaning if I could just hit F5 and be right back at Yama every time I fucked up.
But OP isn't actually interested in changing anyone's mind, he just wants to front like some kind of retro super player

>>723362984
>cheating
Who care's as long as it's a single player game
The point of games is to have fun

>>723362089 (OP)
I mean I never used it before, but I think I will if something so innocuous can trigger someone who's never met me. That's low hanging fruit.

>>723363110
I played the game and I beat it. As I have many others, with or without save states it doesn't make a difference and nothing in my life is going to be affected.
>>723363181
>He's too young for snes

>>723363181
You get a quarter of a week from blockbuster to play it.

>>723362089 (OP)
That's every game now though. Either you have manual on the fly quicksaves or you have hard saves outside of every hard part of the game and then after too. Gone are the days where you have to replay more than a few seconds unless you die somewhere unintended.

>>723362089 (OP)
Same goes for rapid fire, excluding TG16.

>>723363181
The american versions of console games were often even harder than arcade quarter munchers
They made the difficulty purposely sadistic to stop people from beating a game they rented for one weekend

>>723363086
This is a video game hobbiest board. Or at least should be if people that don't play video games like you and people that chronically cheat weren't so prevalent here.

>>723363130
Some games are tough as nails and need constant replays and memorization to be beaten. I wouldn't expect a brown to not cheat though.

>>723363291
Name them shitter, there are only a few examples of games that were made significantly harder, and basically none of those are remotely close to the hardest arcade games.

>>723363301
>hobbiest
Good morning saar

I used to have severe issues with redoing things I've already done and would save state the tedium, however after achieving enlightenment (bodhi) during meditation after a near death experience in a helicopter it no longer affects me and I have the patience of a timegod to be always in the current second and have since beaten multiple retro games through sheer battery of willpower.

>>723362625
What why are you even here?

I'm not saying play everything on hardcore ballcrush nightmare 1 life but what are you even "playing" then? How is it "a game" if you can't lose and don't finish anyway?

>>723363372
I love that for you, froggy.

>>723363372
ohm

>>723363238
Point out the quarter slot in my SNES.

>>723362089 (OP)
Are you really surprised? Every corporation that does emulation re-releases (Nintendo, konami, sega) all include it as a feature. Of course they will think its normal, it literally is these days.

Community rules for how you should play a game are fucking cringe.
>No teabagging in halo
>No spawn camping in call of duty
>No tunneling in dead by daylight
>No kill stealing in mmo
>No spamming in fighting game
Gamers are the whiniest demographic on earth, you people are more sensitive than trannies and are the true special snowflakes.

>>723362089 (OP)
lots of old games do not even have proper save systems so if you don't use save states you are a fool wasting your time and it's no wonder you can't get through your backlog.

>>723363353
you guys and assuming it's an ESL anon, sometimes people are just retarded.

>waaahhhh waaahhh waaaahhh they didnt beat the game waaaahhh
Why are troonlennials such crybabies?

>>723363405
There are several games on SNES that have layover text of insert coin. You press a button and the game registers a coin, like in Contra. You would know this if you weren't a zoomer.

>>723363445
Fuck off, the amount of zoomers only using save states as a form of quick resume for coming back later is absolutely minuscule. Plus outside of a few rare edge cases, most games either have saves or are very short arcadey experiences meant to be played through in one sitting.

>>723362191
Cuz you’re a litte bitch. Have you ever considered that?

>I just need to experience games, I can't be assed to play games by their rules, I have to check off the next game on my backlog
Zoomers are a brain rotted generation.

>>723363332
Ninja Gaiden and the Castlevania game on the Genesis are two notorious examples

>>723363178
NES games were still designed with that philosophy in mind; fun second, longevity through bullshit difficulty first and often didn't have proper saves anyway

>>723363528
Where is the coin slot? I'm asking you a simple question.

>>723362625
https://vocaroo.com/176aB5BoQ8xh

>>723363528
it didn't cost you anything to press start you dumb fucking sperg

>>723363594
Ninja Gaided has unlimited continues. Bloodlines not only has a password system, it isn't that bad difficulty wise.

I guess I will never truly beat Bubsy 3D.
Luckily, I have Bubsy 4D, which does not have save states.

>>723363629
A simple question from a simple minded fuck

>>723363374
Do you beat every single game you play?

>>723362089 (OP)
the insane thing isnt save stats, its people complaining about having to re-do a small part of a level when they die instead of just re spawning immediately
>why do i need extra punishment of redooing stuff I already did, dying is enough punishment
streamer brain mindset thinking like dying makes you look bad in front of an audience and thats the punishment or something.

>>723363681
Doesn't change the philosophy that is designed around quarters you retarded fucking zoomer.

>>723362089 (OP)
dude it's just Quicksaving

>>723363685
Both were made to be sadistically hard just to fuck with americans who dared to rent them though

>>723363567
The poster itt that just assumes everyone has a backlog knocked the fucking wind out of me. What a joyless way to play video games, worrying more about checking off boxes than anything else.

>>723362089 (OP)
Save states/rewind is no different from insisting that hard bosses have a respawn or a checkpoint near them.

Nu-Souls is just DeS or DS1 with save states/rewind

>>723362089 (OP)
They are never going to value the things you do and it's pointless and frankly kinda cringe for you to get upset at an entire generation for not being you.

>>723363725
You claimed it was a quarter muncher. Where is the coin slot for it to munch quarters?

>>723363567
It's an interesting observation-
>GenZ autismos have to play many games to check off of some streamers 'list of important games' and they get gratification from completing lists
>GenY autismos play the same games over and over and over, even new games are really just their old games, gratification comes from beating them at harder and harder difficulties.
>GenX autismos made the golden age of videogames

>>723363791
Clearly not since you cant put a fucking quarter into your SNES

>>723363813
Erm actually quicksaving is cheating, and so is fast travel in skyrim

This is unironically one of the most pathetic threads on the board right now. It’s the ultimate battle of the irresistible cope against the immovable cringe.

On one side, you have the boomer purists, desperately trying to assign value to the thousands of hours they wasted memorizing cheap enemy placements in shitty, quarter-munching NES games. Your entire identity is built on the "accomplishment" of beating games designed to be unfair. You didn't achieve "mastery"; you were just an autist with too much free time and no other options. The idea that someone can now experience the 5 minutes of actual fun in *Castlevania* without having to suffer through the 5 hours of bullshit threatens your entire sense of self-worth.

On the other side, you have the zoomer consoomers, so thoroughly brain-rotted by instant gratification that the concept of losing more than 30 seconds of progress is a form of psychic violence. "I play games to experience them, not beat them" is the ultimate cope for being dogshit at everything you do. You don't want an "experience"; you want a checklist. You want to see the jpeg of the ending screen so you can move on to the next product to consoom. The idea of learning a pattern or thinking for more than five seconds is anathema to you.

Both of you are losers. One of you is obsessed with a meaningless "accomplishment" from 30 years ago, and the other is incapable of accomplishing anything at all. Now shut the fuck up.

>>723363896
Correct on both.

Also plenty of older games didnt have save states because of hardware limitations but they had cheat codes that let you re-start any level any time and would often tell you the cheat code when you finished a chapter of the game so you could restart playing later.

Imagine being proud of "beating" a video game
Holy fucking shit

>>723362443
Ah yes. The "fun" of memorizing every enemy spawn until you can cheese your way through the level the intended way. The difficulty is there to keep you engaged for days in a game that's only like 30min long if you play it flawlessly.

>>723362089 (OP)
>save states are cheating!
Ok? I dont care. Now what?

>>723362089 (OP)
Who cares?
Nes and Snes etc games were made artificially hard to extend game length
It's moral and correct to use rewind/savestates

>>723363935
You're only cheating yourself anon.

>>723363594
Only NG3 and CV3 out of these two. Neither of those are as hard as the hardest arcade games.

Bloodlines is overall harder for NA version than JP (their Expert mode is our normal mode), but honestly it doesn't feel that hard at all, and feels more appropriate and balanced difficulty in line with the rest of the games. US Normal difficulty is very easy outside of a few sections once you have experience, and even US Expert mode is nothing crazy.

The hardest part of Bloodlines is the limited continues and the passwords saving lives (which JP version didn't do), which means you basically have to master stages before you want to save their passwords. I found it the hardest (non CV3US) Castlevania game, but that's because I used default lives and no codes/passwords, but you can increase lives in the settings or just put a code for even more lives, or just use passwords with a ton of extra lives.

I see a lot more posts itt clutching at their pearls about people bragging about beating video games as children than the posts they’re complaining about.

>>723363935
Sounds like the winning move is to never play video games at all

>>723362089 (OP)
Yeah but there is nothing wrong with playing games like that.

>>723362883
you should NEVER take a soulsfags words worth anything other than pure garbage in the first place to be honest

>>723363987
Now you die

>>723363973
It's not even about pride, it's just about experiencing the game properly. A zoomermutt who save states, and *especially* rewind spam completely removes all challenge, stakes, thought, or strategy from the game. You're basically playing on autopilot without a care and might as well watch a fucking Let's Play at that point.

>>723364047
You're so close to enlightenment.

>>723363891
>>723363856
This is a SNES game. You have never played an old video game in your lives.

>>723363935
>words words words you're both shit
Shut the fuck up fenceshitter LOL

>get The Legend of Dragoon from PSN Store
>comes with rewind, saves states, no bullshit glitches (fuck you sea dragon)
>get to end of 3rd disc
>don't feel like I really played due to rewinding for additions
I love and hate my autism. I love the game but for some reason it feels like cheating, despite how trivial it is. The meme phrase "you didn't beat the game " isn't my mindset, it just feels like a much cheaper experience. Save states are easily a casual's best friend, though.
>getting so out skilled by boomers you now need saves to even beat their games
Another sign of how stupid people have become

>>723362089 (OP)
*siiiiips* not my problem fag

save states are absolutely justified in the original Castlevania which did not even have a password system

>>723363206
>The amount of excitement and triumph I felt after persevering through multiple mistakes and so many failed runs would have been utterly robbed of meaning if I could just hit F5 and be right back at Yama every time I fucked up

You were robbed of time which is worse lol

>>723363785
I think it's having the option there at all that causes people to use it as a crutch and develop bad habits, same with shit that speeds the game or movie or whatever up. I think we're becoming hyper fixated on consuming everything as fast and easily as possible that it's fucking our brains and attention spans, another globohomo mindfuck really.

>>723363970
Fun fact: "secret level select" was sometimes used by devs as a fallback in case the game crashed. That helped them to get past old school console validation process , where the game were expected to stay on for days without problems. That's why you could sometimes activate such screen by wiggling the cartridge.

>>723364113
that's Super Contra for Arcade you complete fucking retard. Contra 3 for SNES does no such thing. You have limited continues, but it does not mention coins or even credits.

>>723364013
Did you actually ready his post or did you just skim and somehow got mad at him for the wrong thing?

>>723364113
That's just text
You cannot actually insert a coin
>You have never played an old video game in your lives
I'm savestating my way through all the castlvania games right now though for halloween?

>>723363935
>muh unfair
Stopped reading right here. If you can't enter a discussion without using these meaningless buzzwords and no examples whatsoever, your opinion is worthless.

I just say I beat games I never played , no one can prove I did or didn't and it is faster

>>723364173
Not him, but I doubt he felt robbed of his time by playing a video game when he sat down to play a video game.

>>723364208
I'm not mad, I'm disappointed in you anon.
I thought you were better than this. I guess not.

>>723364092
We are all going to die, though.

>>723363816
Bloodlines is far from one of the harder Genesis games. Coming to grips with the Strike games is harder, and the last stretch of Ecco clears Bloodlines easily.

>>723363206
>The amount of excitement and triumph
>which only went on to last 5 seconds after the victory and people I told it too didn't give much of a damn
>so I played another hard game trying to chase that meaning.. that purpose I strived for in life, if those people used cheats.. curse them to HECK

>>723364265
malfunctioning bot

>>723364260
>revealing you're a gamer
WHY would you do this?

Stupid boomers. Every single NES, SNES, and Genesis game was made artificially hard to extend playtime with unfair hits, they're all worthless fucking garbage, just like every arcade game is also trash.
t. zoomer

>>723364274
Ecco the Dolphin is legitimately one of the most grueling video games I’ve ever played lol

>>723364268
Dont get philosophical on me

>>723364113
that's the arcade version you underage mutt

>>723364113
Retard. Doesn't even post SNES games.

>>723364327
This. Videogames didn't really start until the Playstation.

>>723364327
Some of them look cool on a CRT and have good music
Which is why I breeze through them with save states on my hacked wii

>>723362089 (OP)
I use saves all the time and I beat the game and I use cheats and mods and I still beat the game, and there is nothing you can do about it except seethe cope and dilate

>get invited over to friends for a boardgame night
>playing Monopoly
>one friend has hotel on Boardwalk
>my turn
>roll dice, land on boardwalk, will go bankrupt
>"Oops, too bad, I'll just load my save state"
>Move my piece back to where it was, roll the dice again.
>land on Go instead, ez
If you only use save states for SOME games and not EVERY game you're a pussy

>>723364161
Literally unlimited continues. You can brute force it. If you don't beat it that day then you come back and will be skilled enough for previous parts and get to later stages quicker.

A friend of mine years back mocked save scumming in retro shooters, then went on to abuse save states in Super Mario World of all games.

>>723362089 (OP)
?im not wasting time reloading repeatedly lol stay mad

You must play games according to my exact specifications.

>>723364424
God I love house rules, always spices up the game

>>723364326
actually yeah, that's a big mistake too
especially if you're older than 12

>>723363083
and your amazing life has landed you... here with us, faggot

>>723362625
>I want to eXpErIeNcE them
if you mod a game and it is completely different from the base version you haven't experienced it.
you are fundamentally changing the experience doing that, if you are using save states and rewinds you didn't experience the game at all.

when you experience it and realize you are not interested in what it offers, even if you didn't play it, then you really did experience it. you are deciding you don't want to even try the game and play a modified version of it which is a different thing.

>>723363130
the par for minimum levels of discussion
sounds like you didn't actually beat the game

>>723364494
“These guys I have a lot in common with are such fags” is such a classic style of 4chang post

>>723362191
Imagine if people acted like this with sports. Like if they made a soccer ball magnet and fly into the goal

>>723364424
>discussion is about save states in single player games
>bring up monopoly played with someone else
You had to wear a helmet to school, didn't you?

>>723364445
smogon

>>723364327
This, video games really didn't start until GTAIV.

>>723364557
Found the pussy. If you're not winning why even play the game? Save states are the superior design for ALL games.

>>723364557
They're all games with their rule sets. Video games, board games, card games, sports.

Crossword boomers are just mad that I can look up completed crosswords and experience more puzzles in a day than they could in entire months. How am I even supposed to finish my backlog if I don’t do this?

>>723364445
>8AM
This is the most monstrous thing on the list.

>>723364282
I didn't mean 'meaning' as in life's meaning. I meant that having so much on the line meaningfully changed how I engaged with the game. When one little mistake can end a 20+ minute long run, you have to play intentionally and execute under pressure instead of just detachedly throwing yourself at enemies/obstacles
Beating Hell would've been boring as shit if I could restart at whatever point I wanted.

>>723364624
>having to follow the rules
KEK

Retro games are literally all pattern and memory recognition. Every single one of them. You can fast track your progress and break Skill ceilings by *literally* just paying attention and remembering patterns, and I don't say this casually. What half the people in this thread don't get is that they are never paying attention. They are never utilising the memory part of the brain. They get salty and tilted at having to redo. It's a different mentality because they are used to playing games where you DONT use the brain (literally every modern vidya). The brain is used to dissect some shitty writing instead

>>723363935
This was amusingly well written.

I think it speaks to the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. People who grew up with games and got good at them to beat them were intrinsically motivated to improve at something, back in the day no one was going to give you a gold star for beating Super Mario Bros. Meanwhile it seems like people who grew up with achievements and the like are extrinsically motivated and always seeking external validation. For old games that's just means beating them however takes the least effort.

I'm on the side of not reducing art to something just to be consumed, looking up images of the Mona Lisa and saying "yeah I saw it I got a bunch of other art to see let me search for those now" doesn't seem like a good direction for humanity to me.

Grow up and play full-loot PvP games.

>>723364839
>I'm on the side of not reducing art to something just to be consumed, looking up images of the Mona Lisa and saying "yeah I saw it I got a bunch of other art to see let me search for those now" doesn't seem like a good direction for humanity to me.
Very well said, and I couldn’t agree more.
I see no point in browbeating people who choose to die on the hill that you’re only wasting your own time by not using cheats because they engage with video games for fundamentally different reasons than I do. They do not see games as art to be engaged with on their own terms but instead as products to be consumed.

>>723363935
>NES
>"quarter munching"
>"thousands of hours" to beat a fucking NES game
This level of delusion can only be brought about by a zoomermutt who has never played more than a minute of a retro game without spamming save states and rewind.

Vast overwhelming majority of the NES library can beat by an average first time player with no cheats/save states/rewind in under 10-15 hours, and as you gain experience, you can learn new games even faster.

>>723364839
That post is saying the exact opposite though
People who played those games when they were new are the ones complaining about how its not fair that someone can say they beat a game when they used save states
They want validation for beating them "the real way" while everyone else just wants to have fun and doesn't give a shit about hollow video game achievements

>>723362191
Accusing others of not having enough skill was a big thing back then. Ever heard of epen? Youngsters these days have micro epen. And that has to be pointed out in hopes of them growing a pair

>>723365190
this
I 1cced Castlevania 1 in like 3 hours
Zoomers were subjected to one of the worst psy-op campaigns in history regarding NES games. These "people" actually think that games like Contra are some of the hardest ever made because AVGN/some other millennial tendietuber said so.

>>723364930
>full-loot
>pvp
I've already been raped on RS in the wild. I don't need to go through that again.

>>723362782
>its entirely different
You didn't beat those PC games you quick saved in.

>>723362089 (OP)
The only game where I will use cheat codes or skips is hentai games because most of them do not have gameplay engaging enough for me to spend hours of grinding on.

>>723363935
Love how so many people started seething over this post before reading the whole thing
It really shows how easily triggered "pro" gamers are

>>723362702
>Implying it was just CRPGs
Max Payne says hi.

>>723365319
Anon, I don't know how to tell you this, but...porn is free online

>>723362191
>unc is replacing boomer
doesnt have as much aura, more negro-coded too.

>>723362089 (OP)
i actually don't care. i want to break the game and see everything it has to offer. farming rare drops that are gone when the servers die impresses no one, besides i already did all that shit when i was a kid. i just want to have fun with the couple of hours i play games and sometimes running at 300% speed or jumping 100 feet in the air and killing everything in one hit is what it takes. an hour farmed is an hour wasted

>>723365358
To be fair, the max difficulty limits your quicksaves so they clearly knew how it totally trivialized the difficulty.

>>723365404
You think I actually pay for hentai games?

Why are any of you playing videogames made before 1994 anyway? Every single game from then, there's a better one available after that isn't shitty quarter munching garbage

>>723365270
There are zoomers who think Super Mario Bros 1 is some impossible nightmare game.

Then again the guy in charge of Zelda at Nintendo stopped playing Zelda 1 because octoroks kept kicking his ass so maybe it's not a generational thing.

>>723365219
>People who played those games when they were new are the ones complaining about how its not fair
Where are you pulling this from? People that play older games still play games they never played back then. Not only that they have the option to use rewinds and save states but they choose not to.

>>723365358
Oh, of course. And DOOM, Duke 3D, the Elder Scrolls games and countless other games. In the past I’ve just seen CRPGs brought up most often for the sake of this argument.

>>723364517
>if you mod a game and it is completely different from the base version you haven't experienced it.
>you are fundamentally changing the experience doing that, if you are using save states and rewinds you didn't experience the game at all.
when i was a kid and would play with my gi joes and star wars action figures i would make up my own stories, characters, and how their weapons/vehicles work in my head. every time i played with a luke skywalker action figure he wasnt always luke skywalker. sometimes i would even have my he-man figures steal my sister's barbie lamborghini and race against my ninja turtles in their pizza van.

video games are toys. anyone can play with them however they want. you are like some kid who gets angry at another kid for playing with his GI Joes "wrong".

sure, there is some artistic intent from the creator of the toy/game of how they imagine it can be used/played with, but to claim that is the ONLY way to properly play with the toy is insane and/or really stupid.

>>723365454
I'm convinced that anyone who bitches about muh quarter munchers has an IQ of <75

>>723365520
I'm convinced that anyone who brings up IQ has an age of <14

I'm a zoomer and this is my retro game tier list

>>723365303
If a game has quicksave and quickload built in then its not cheating lol. Its cheese, but it isn't cheating. funnily on this topic modded skyrim managed to BREAK me from quickload spamming across any game that has it because you can't use it in heavy modded rim. I'm looking forward to playing Stalker again without being a quickloading faggot
Nowadays they tend to do have modes without quickload spam, save at campfire only etc.
You have to restrict yourself of that cheese however, near every pc game of that era had quickloading
Oh I liked how Hitman games used to do it. Limited number depending on difficulty, so you had to place saves where you thought best for the level, dope

>>723365561
>calls someone else underage
>calls NES and SNES games "quarter munchers"

>>723365454
Later versions of Galaga and Pacman from the 80's were literally coded to end your run after a certain amount of time.

>>723364839
>I'm on the side of not reducing art to something just to be consumed, looking up images of the Mona Lisa and saying "yeah I saw it I got a bunch of other art to see let me search for those now" doesn't seem like a good direction for humanity to me.
Are you really comparing a fine painting to digital toys? Lol
Mona Lisa has more depth than every video game combined, your comparison doesn't make any sense

>>723365714
Why are you even here?

Zoomers are not happy with Super Mario Bros 3.

>>723364542
Soccer isn't a good comparison because it's a sport that can't be played solo. Your comparison would be more accurate if we're talking about cheating in multiplayer games, but here we're specifically talking about modifications to a game being played by yourself.
Let's say someone wants to shoot baskets in basketball by themselves with a magnetic basketball that flies into the basket or something. If it's just something they do on their own time for fun, what's the harm in it?

>>723365517
This is a good perspective to have, but I think what frustrates people is the implied or inferred attitude towards the content. For instance, playing a Pokemon ROMHack is different than hacking yourself a level 100 mon and using turbo speed and save states to blitz through the game and then saying "yeah I beat pokemon it was boring lol onto the next game"

Ultimately you're right that anyone can play games however and no one's going to stop them, but people depriving themselves from improving at things results in a shallow mentality.

>savesstateniggers ITT are literally saying they view videogames as toys
lolmao

>>723363206
Old /v/ and i mean ORIGINAL /v/ would had raped mike mattei at home, painted a loco bandito up his ass and told him to suck a horse dick, they beat the game the way they want and to stop being a nigger.
Then 2008 happened, and AVGN tards and barneylenials like mike, irate and james took over the internet and all went to shit.

These are the same fags who cries over fucking saves in DOS Doom, or other PC game or port.

>>723365651
Because it's the exact same design philosophy. Arcade cabinet games were intentionally bullshit to siphon quarters, and NES games were intentionally bullshit to discourage rentals. In the end, the difficulty had nothing to do with "artistic vision" or "designer intent" or whatever, it was purely to financially screw over children, or more accurately, their parents.

>>723365714
Mona Lisa is an entry level painting and it's bland as shit. Let's hear your chatgpt read of its depth though.
Note I am not saying it lacks depth; i am saying pools of shit have depth too.

>>723362443
>savestates/rewind take the fun away
Then don't use them, retard.

>>723365870
Video games are Toys we waste time because Life nowadays suck courtesy of millenials fucking boomers and zoomers.

>>723365892
>arcade games were intentionally bullshit
They were intentionally hard, and it's not difficult to find people that already want to make hard games.
>NES games were intentionally bullshit to discourage rentals
99% of worthwhile NES games were made in Japan where rentals were banned.

>>723365303
Yeah holy shit I see this shit all the fucking time. What sealed it for me was that Gman guy complaining about a console shooter (Black) not having quicksaves and actually punishing you for dying. PC ucks are the most casual of the casual but pretend to be hardcore. Why engage with a vision or struggle when you can just instantly erase all mistakes? There's a soulless quality to them that I think has ensured that most PC games aren't anywhere near as iconic; they don't force that struggle on the player.

>>723362880
Fortnite doesn't have save states.

>>723365892
Vast majority of games had no significant regional differences in difficulties, and many of the ones that did are arguably better balanced in the western version. Regardless, you can just play whichever version you prefer.

And see >>723365190

You are mindraped from never playing a retro game in your life without save states to the point where you think beating Contra NES is some monumentally difficult task, when you can basically just do it from first time blind in an afternoon if you are even moderately skilled.

I think the poster who brought up quicksave/quickload is onto something. It's not cheating for those games no, but PC games literally ushered in this era of instant gratification & suffering no consequence
As I think of it now console shooters never did this. I'd say you'd have a harder time 100% timesplitters 2 than many pc shooters of the same time
PC gamers need to brunt responsibility for how zoomers are today. There's a long period of time after the retro era with quickscummy games

>>723365891
Funny how all of them are nintendofags, and nintendofags are the ones preaching this shit all time.
I knew someone who never dared to play doom on PC, just the fucking SNES release and Doom64
Then nightdive ports came in and he now hates it because "it is too hard for him unlike the SNES and N64 release which was better"
Fortunately i cut my friendship with that tard wrangler

>>723366250
sure nintentranny

>>723364930
I played Synduality for a bit, that was fun for a while. But the devs couldn't balance for shit so I stopped eventually.

>>723366250
Quicksave was supposed to be used for 2 things:
>i really want to destroy this entire village without ruining my save
>i don't trust the dev's checkpoints so I'm going to save here.
I'm thinking of that one webm where the game autosaves RIGHT next to a monster and he gets softlocked into loading a different manual save.

>i-it's singleplayer
>cheat in multiplayer anyway and whine endlessly about anticheats

>>723365771
I like video games but I don't pretend they are art

>>723365893
No, the Mona Lisa is not an "entry level" painting; it is a highly complex masterpiece from the Renaissance period. While some viewers might find it underwhelming at first due to its small size and lack of dramatic effects, its true value lies in its intricate details, psychological depth, and historical significance. Its enigmatic qualities have captivated people for centuries, making it one of the most analyzed and famous works in art history.
The painting is renowned for its sophisticated techniques, such as the enigmatic smile, subtle modeling of forms, and atmospheric illusionism.
It's often described as requiring a quiet, contemplative approach. Its impact is not immediate, but rather unfolds as one looks closer.

>>723366529
>I like video games but I don't pretend they are art

Do you consider film art? What about books, or art sold for money?

How do you consider those things different than a game?

>>723362625
>they hated anon because he told them the truth.

>>723366724
You didn't play the game.

>>723364839
>I'm on the side of not reducing art to something just to be consumed
faggot

art exist to be consumed. some even exist to be used as tools. a lamborghini is a work of art. whole teams of designers, artists, and engineers worked together to combine a complex machine with an artistic vision. a toy action figure can be a work of art, it requires an artist to design, to interpret some fictional persona into a little chunk of plastic crap for kids to fidget around with in their hands.

even the shape of a bottle of soda is art. designed to make the drink look appealing and ergonomic.

and video games? i would argue that video games are the ultimate form of consumable art. art you dont just look at/take in, but art you must engage with and manipulate and experience first hand and explore - and alter - with your actions. either through the means the designer intended, or through whatever means the game inspires you to take(be it custom content, mods, cheats, exploits, save states, etc, etc, etc)

and i would further argue that this aspect of video games makes them one of the greatest forms of art precisely because of how infinitely experienced any good video game can be.

people dont still play games like the OG mario, skyrim, doom, etc because they were perfect works of art, unalterable and set in stone. people still play those classics precisely because of how infinitely re-playable they are thanks to all the various mods, custom content, cheats, rom hacks, speedrunning, and esoteric history around each game and how they have evolved and been expanded by the millions of people playing them all very differently.

sure you can argue that some art deserves to remain unaltered, untouched, set in stone to be admired for as long as possible. sure. but that is literally antithetical to what makes video games a transcendent art form: the consumer can engage with it however they want - creating potentially infinite different ways for the art to be experienced.

>>723366297
Not an argument

>>723364091
Shazam lost.

>>723362191
Pretty much every NES games required a lot of skill and practice to beat.
Imagine a sports star cheating to win a game and then bragging about that win. Fans would be pissed.
Same thing.

If you didn't play through the entire Umienko saga in a single sitting then you didn't beat the game.

>>723366529
Huh you actually did give me a gpt response

>>723366821
That makes me think of refball, now that I think about it. People hate when big plays are taken away because of a ref call.

>>723362563
Okay great. So then you shouldn't mind when people acknowledge the fact that you didn't do it.

>>723366806
>n-n-not an argument
sure nindrone

>>723366821
>he thinks people at sports doesnt cheat to win in everything

I'm 37 and don't have enough time to dedicate retreading the same bullshit, I don't need rewind but at least give me save states

>>723362089 (OP)
depends on the game
if it's some grindy shit you could do 10000 times with no effort whatsoever, like triggering a 0.1% event by going the same few actions over and over, then cheat all you want : the game was fucking stupid to begin with

OK lets see what one of the premier video game creators of the world thinks on this matter, the creator of nintendo, mario, and zelda. you know, some of the games people in this very thread are calling works of art.

https://www.gonintendo.com/contents/50570-former-nintendo-dev-says-miyamoto-s-view-of-games-as-products-and-not-works-of-art


>Former Nintendo dev Takaya Imamura has taken to social media to share some thoughts on Shigeru Miyamoto from a developer perspective, and he says the Mario creator doesn’t look at games as art, but instead sees them as a product.

>Mr. Miyamoto studied industrial design at an art university and views games not as “works of art” but as “products.” I believe this perspective leads to game development that is more closely aligned with users.

>[Takaya Imamura]
>We’ve often heard about how Miyamoto looks at games in ways most developers would never even consider, so it’s not all that surprising to see him look at games as products rather than works of art. Just as Imamura says, this approach likely does make for a better experience for the player, but you’d have to imagine that’s in terms of gameplay specifically.

>>723366529
>I like video games but I don't pretend they are art
Why not?

>>723367093
If you're replaying old games fine but if you're picking up a game for the first time its faggy. I'm way better at vidya in my 30s than I've ever been and if your time is that precious don't play retro olol

>>723362089 (OP)
>neutering all sense of steaks
Nigger I’m in my 30s and if your game’s “stakes” are me losing hours and hours of time to gay frustration mechanics then its a dogshit game, simple as.

Fucking nintendo added savestates to their emulators and they dont give a shit about it
But watch people playing on PC that they flip a shit over savestates


Hypocrisy at its fines

>>723367173
I wonder if Tezuka would agree with this.

>>723362191
A millenial calling other millenials "uncs" lmao.

>>723367173
oh well maybe Miyamoto is a crazy old man or he is wrong or he is taken out of context... lets check in with the creator of the most successful video of all time, Minecraft creator Notch. what are his thoughts on video games being art?

>The creator of Minecraft, Markus "Notch" Persson, has expressed that he does not consider video games to be a form of art. His argument centers on the idea that games are defined by their mechanics and gameplay, rather than their aesthetic or narrative qualities.

>Notch's perspective on games as art
>Gameplay over aesthetics: Persson argues that while a game can contain artistic elements, such as visuals and sound, the game itself is fundamentally a form of gameplay, not a work of art. He compares it to a board game or card game, which may feature artistic components but is not considered art as a whole.
>The flaw of "art games": He suggests that video games that focus on being artistic often fail as games because they de-emphasize gameplay. In his view, a good game must first and foremost be a good game, centered around its mechanics.

oh wow, Notch agrees with Miyamoto. video games aren't works of art just because they feature artistic components. he compares video games to board games, which no one considered/considers art either.

>>723362191
autism

>>723367357
Depends of the generation, Gen 2 aka Barneyfags are the reason of why faggot OP Pic exists

>>723367173
>nintendo
Yeah I'm not reading any more of your post.

we solved the are games art debate over a decade ago you nerds the threads are done

>>723363098
Like watching a brain damaged trying to use a spoon

Post Mike Matei's cock.

>>723362191
As a zellenial my thoughts are that zoomers never had the euphoria of finally beating a hard boss or hard level.

As someone who started with demon souls I can tell you that Dark souls is the easiest fucking game in the world when you dodge max, play co op, and google everything. There's a reason why even uncs hate darksouls 2, it was the first time they actually punished you for dodge maxing. Regardless of its short comings this is the main reason it got hated by uncs.

zoomers will just continue to play crappy movie games made for actual retards and in turn rewarding low standards in this shell of its former self industry.

i use them to set personal checkpoints in some games because repeating 75% of a level just to try at the final 25% you're actually struggling with isn't fun or interesting.

>>723367421
>he compares video games to board games, which no one considered/considers art either.
they should be desu, designing systems is just as impactful in vidya as it is in board games and both the entire point and biggest strengths of both. I don't understand why people don't consider interactive elements an artform

I use savestates to refight bosses over and over, usually in Mega Man. Been doing this since the early 2000s. I'd upload hitless runs of levels to youtube.

>>723363098
i did that shit even without save states, and there is a fucking platform at the middle

>>723362089 (OP)
It changes the experience, whether it's ruined or not is a matter of opinion. My son uses rewinds and save states when he plays old games, but he's always telling me how he was able to "beat X game" or do some other challenge used "only Y rewinds" or, in some cases "without rewinds." He has fun seeing what a game has to offer and if he likes it he plays it more and tries to improve. In a sense it's kind of like piracy. He's trying out the game for free, spending no time, and if it's good, he then buys it with his time by playing it without rewinds.

I'm gonna get called a contrarian for this but honestly there should be legitimate rules and gatekeeping for deciding if someone has beaten a game or not. Not just savescumming and rewind but also clarifying if it was on an emulator, if a QoL hack was used, if a guide was ever consulted, etc. You get the idea. And if you have strong opinions about a game it should be a given that you post some record of gameplay so that other people can know you aren't full of shit and can thus justify your stance.

Like ideally you would go into the game completely blind with no outside assistance and try your very best to get through it with your own skill and intelligence. Don't avoid help if you need it, but don't hide that you chickened out either.

>>723367625
That's a good use for save states. It's true that any game can have bullshit moments and it's not like save states are verboten or anything, but that's very different than uses like >>723363098

>>723362089 (OP)
it's actually insane how normalized believing overcoming difficulty is the big part of the experience. And it wasn't the case at all before souls elitism dropped. Such a type A personality thing to make up.

>>723367616
you cannot "dodge max" in dark souls.
the closest you would come is equipping the Dark Wood Grain Ring and that comes around 80% of the way into the game

>>723367632
people like to wax pseudointellectual but ultimately in their lives the centuries old mona lisa will mean jack tiddy while the bing bing wahoo plumber will ignite cognitive brain waves and make him rap the little jingle on the nearest surface. Ultimately Art is whatever means something to you and that's why any debates about it are silly and got shelved

>>723365303
a game is a set of rules. if the set of rules involves using quicksaves you are playing the game by the games rules if you quicksave. if the set of rules does not involve using quicksaves, you are not playing the game by its rules if you use quicksaves, you are cheating.

>>723367421
I consider board games art. Game design isn’t exactly a science, and aesthetics meet mechanics halfway to invoke the sensation of play when engaging with both mediums.

>>723367926
I don't agree, why wouldn't we remember the absolute classics and influences of an era of vidya as we do for traditional art like painting and music? If those can be preserved, why can't games?

>>723368079
no you dont

>>723362089 (OP)
based boomer
dabbing on the kids

>>723362465
actually og hardware objectively was easier to play on cause it had shitton less input lag. Rewind is literally remedy for games not designed to be played on such laggy machines

>>723368113
I do. I’ve genuinely felt this way about them since I was young. I like games a lot.

>>723363098
>they're worse
This is the whole problem and it's going to become increasingly a problem in all domains of life.
Learning is uncomfortable and frustrating. If you give people the tools to avoid negative consequences they will indefinitely postpone their learning.

>buy re-release of vintage game
>save states
>"why are these here"
>"it's a quality of life feature they make the game better"
>buy modern game
>no save states

>>723367923
They all do the same shit.
>Endurance
>Agility
>Equip load (vitality?)
>Stamina ring(s)
>Medium armor(sometimes light armor for super quick rolls)

I haven't played in years so I may be misremembering some of the stats but Ive watched them play and they still do this shit.

>>723368248
Save states work by saving everything in the ram, you would have 30GB save states with modern games lmao

>>723368158
This is hardly a thing or else pros and speedrunners would not use emulators.....

>>723365802
nothing, but nobody sane who did that would go around talking to actual basketball players like they play the same game, would they?

>>723368237
Is not that anon, is literally basic education at its finest.
these people are taught nothing, learn nothing, and still sucks even with savestates to hold them

said people now considers skyrim hard because it isnt a corridor hand held faggotry and considers modding even harder to a point they made a shitty tool for it that is even worse than doing by yourself and learn how to mod.

>>723368426
they do try to run on original if are able to. But anything can be adapted to by autists anyway, doesn't mean a normal person will not experience those issues.

>>723365801
>Mario
>hard
I have to believe they're bots, it's the only way I can accept that image

>>723367616
Except Dark Souls 2 is dogshit.

>>723368512
SMB3 is one of the harder games on the NES unironically. It took me longer just to beat SMB3 (without save states/rewind obviously) than it did to 100% Luigi U, which zoomers claim is one of the absolute hardest Mario games.

if I respect the game and like it i'll beat it legit. if it's something I don't really care too much about I'll use save states or even cheats.
I've never had any attachment to the megaman series. I didn't play them growing up. but I was interested to see what it was about so I played it, but I did use save states to get through it because I just don't care. super metroid on the other hand I have an attachment to and would not use save states. I more enjoy beating it legit.
I could care less what other people do. save state metroid if you want I don't care.

>>723368512
I found Wonder hard? I thought maybe it was age but replayed it recently and it was easy but that first run challenged me.

>>723368610
nintendo zoomers wouldn't last a minute in Battlezone the moment they reach mars.

>>723368569
There you go.

And again I acknowledge darksouls 2 having a lot of problems.

>>723364538
you dont need to eat shit to know that it tastes bad.

>>723368719
>1980 arcade game that 5 people on Earth have played
whatever you say

>>723366821
>and then bragging about that win
No one does this though. Only boomers and millennials consider beating a videogame an achievement.

>>723368569
Best build variety & pvp of the 3 games but dodgeroll changes filtered everyone and forced from soft down a bad path of accessible rollslop for everyone

>>723366634
>How do you consider those things different than a game?
They don't have rules and goals which the art lover needs to follow in order to engage with them.
It's the rules and goals which constitute the main essence of videos games: the gameplay. If you remove them, it stops being a video game and it becomes an interactive experience.
>>723367196
Why I don't pretend? Because I don't have an inferiority complex. I don't need to act like they are on the same level as literature or cinema to feel more cultured. Also the push to recognise video games as art is killing their essence. Modern games have very boring gameplay compared to retro games which focused primarly on it. They should be more Wolfenstein 3D and less The Last of Us

>>723368512
Pipe and Dark World in Mario 3 really up the difficulty. Beat it for the first time last year, no game overs and no save states, but I would've probably game over'd if I didn't get godly luck on that path with enemy gauntlets.

>>723368610
>SMB3 is one of the harder games on the NES unironically

Eh, that is probably statistically accurate but it's also so weird to think of a Mario game as hard, especially on a system that had games like Ninja Gaiden and Holy Diver and Punch Out and plenty of others.

SMB3 might be technically one of the harder games on the system but I still wouldn't call it hard though. It's a shame the comments in >>723365801 are so non-specific, I have no idea what they could be struggling with.

Thinking about it I guess World 8 is pretty challenging.

This reminds me of making levels in Mario Maker and seeing dozens of people dying at the first jump or the first goomba, I always just assumed it was little kids but maybe not?

>>723368774
>Zoomer thinks it is a arcade game
>When it is a N64 game and PC game from 1998
You fags are also filtered by SMW

>>723368792
And btw you can dodge max in dark souls 2 just like any of the other souls game.

The difference is that they actually made you commit to it.

>>723368902
I would definitely consider SMB3 harder than NES games like Contra, Castlevania, Zelda (even II honestly), Ninja Gaiden, Shatterhand, Silver Surfer, etc.

>>723367290
Modern Nintendo idea guys and devs are casuals, remember Aunoma said he can't beat Zelda 1 and we later learned that he literally had to be handholded by their girlfriend to beat early Zelda games.
>>723366250
Savescumming became a thing since the days of King's Quest and Wizardry. And the devs knew players will savescumming to beat the games, that's why they made them obtuse as fuck, and also to sell minutes for the hotline.
Casuals are not a new thing but honestly, why people should give a fuck about how other people play video games
>b-but their opinions
almost everyone has a huge problem with their attention spans thanks to tiktok, reels and shorts, and the stupid idea of having backlogs because somehow that makes you "productive" in some weird mental gymnastic, stop giving a shit about opinions and just ask them if they had actual fun, that's enough to start reverting the brainrot, that's the real enemy

Why do you stupid faggots equate rewind with savestates? Savestates are fine as a simple checkpoint, rewind is gay. At worst, savestate prevents you from having to farm lives or replay the whole fucking game over in the event of a death.

>>723368959
The N64 version is even more niche than the arcade game, so no, no one knows what the fuck you're talking about and probably not one other person ITT has actually played or heard of that game. Also the N64 version released in 2000, while the PC version released in 1998. Apparently you don't even know the garbage you are shilling.

>>723369014
I think Contra and Castlevania are more difficulty dense, but they're way shorter than Mario 3. If you brute force Contra and Castlevania, you could beat them in a shorter amount of time than Mario 3.

>>723369107
Yeah Mario 3 is extremely tense and exhausting. It just goes on and on and having to repeat such grueling and precise stages over and over when you game over just mentally wears you down. Definitely one of those games where your hands are shaking on the final stages.

>>723363063
The early castlevania games aren't even that hard. Shame.

If I'm playing a turn-based Strategy RPG like Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, or X-Com, then I fully expect and demand a rewind feature.

I'm not going to waste my time because of a bad turn.

>>723365472
>the guy in charge of Zelda at Nintendo stopped playing Zelda 1 because octoroks kept kicking his ass
Kek, really?

One thing I've been doing is going back and playing old RTs games that I cheated at as a kid because it was hard, but now playing them without cheats. It's been a fun challenge. Going through Warcraft 2 beyond the dark portal now.

>>723369257
Just restart the battle or play on easier modes.

>>723362883
Zoomers don't even play that shit. Zoomers don't even own consoles, by and large. It's all millennials.

Earlier tonight I was playing Pocky & Rocky for the first time in a while. I made it to the penultimate level and got a game over. Rather than continue, I just restarted the game and used the knowledge I'd regained to reach that point with no lives lost. Then I got to the last level and beat the game. Now tell me that sounds like a worse experience than just save state cheating to "beat" the game with no effort.

>>723363098
I grew up playing these video games & watching that pissed me off.
It's like bowling with the rail guards up

>>723369257
Nah. If I've fucked up to the point of dying, that was turns ago bro. Restart and refresh. The most you need is an undo feature for a misplace

>>723362089 (OP)
That's right, I didn't beat the game I beat a better version of that game with QOL features

>>723368467
skyrim is fucking weird man. Doesn't teach you shit, half broken obscure mechanics etc etc. Only reason one would consider skyrim easy and dumbed down is cause you've played and mastered oblivion already. Meanwhile skyrim is literally more complicated than elden ring.

>>723369106
And so the nintendotranny lives with the cope that no one will take him seriously, for he sucks at the most basic bitch game even with save states to handheld his ass.

>>723362912
feet

>>723362089 (OP)
it's cheating, but you beat the game if you reached credits
doesn't matter if you exploited, used an emulator, or used a game genie

>>723369051
>At worst, savestate prevents you from having to farm lives or replay the whole fucking game over in the event of a death.
Negating all challenge is cheating.

>>723362191
this is bait, but people ask this honestly too.

because if you don't play the game as it was designed you don't understand how it actually feels and how its design works holistically and therefore when you make any statement about the game it is worthless and your dumb posts are clogging up online discussions.

and worst of all, you will act smug about it too, not even realising how retarded you're being, while everyone around you is just annoyed

>>723369014
Really? I mean I can see Zelda because you can get so much life after a while that losing is hard but some of those others are surprising.

Like >>723369107 said, SMB3 is longer than others but I think overall less challenging, though it does have a real difficulty curve so the later worlds are more challenging.

Also how the hell is Silver Surfer there? That's actual bullshit style difficulty that comes from a lack of polish since it was a rushed licensed game.

>>723369742
Silver Surfer is legit easy as fuck if you play for more than 5 minutes. It's one of the easier shmups on the NES, and console shmups are already way easier than their arcade counterparts.

>>723369257
Don't all modern Strategy RPGs have rewind features?
Look all the new features they added to Reborn and Ivalice Chronicles, anyone who isn't a boomer won't have the patience without a rewind feature.

>>723369570
??? The game begins with a very straightforward tutorial segment with on-screen tips. The first time you pause the game, it tells you how the menus work. The equipment and magic UI is also about as straightforward as it could be.
The game also came with a manual.

>>723369326
Good on you anon. Warcraft 2 is a fun time, hope it goes well for you.

>>723369452
What you just described unfortunately constitutes a complete waste of time to some people.

>>723367173
you have been playing videogames all this time and haven't realised that the core art that ties a videogame together is designing it, so that it's fun to play.

treating it like a product (product here is to be understood as its used in traditional, functional design contexts. retards also dont get this, eventhough the article clues you in on it) is in fact doing the art of good game design, i.e. making it fun

you fags should care more about what a thing is, rather than what words people use to name a thing and you wouldn't be tripping yourselves up over the usage of words like art and product and what that even means.

damn, you're stupid

>>723369452
>Pocky & Rocky

That's an underrated gem, you have good tastes in games anon.

>>723365625
>NONONONO IT'S DIFFERENT
Cope

>>723368768
>Cheat
>Wtf this game is boring, shitty and easy
Zoomer "discourse"

>>723368850
>Because I don't have an inferiority complex.
Could have fooled me. I don’t think of them as art because I want to elevate them to something that they aren’t.
Do you think that most game developers didn’t see their craft as an art in the “retro” era?

>>723362089 (OP)
You're not even a real person, who gives a shit?

>>723367421
>not realising designing good mechanics and gameplay is art

all these stupid discussions wouldn't happen if people generally weren't retarded enough to define art only as visual art and "artsy" things.

All those old PC games with quicksaves? Everyone abused them constantly. The idea of taking pride in beating a single player game was kind of a console thing and rare even then. This is the reason old games could get away with having more janky and experimental mechanics as well, if they fucked up and you got stuck you could reload.

t. boomer

>>723362625
This is such a sad way to live, never actually engaging with a game, just sort of gliding over it and looking down at it, a sort of sad power fantasy for someone who does not want to play a game, but wants the feeling of having played a game. Honestly, at this point just watch daytime TV or become a coomer or something. Get into gacha. Be honest with yourself instead of living a lie.

>>723369257
I'm curious as to what you get out of a strategy game if you rewind every time a turn doesn't go your way. That means that you're winning every battle by default and don't actually need any strategy. What are you getting out of a strategy game by taking the strategy out?

If it's the story you could just watch a lets play or the cutscenes online, that would be quicker.

>>723370274
most pc gamers would sweat trying a skulls halo 3 run without their precious quickscumming lel

>>723370289
But anon, he’s a gamer who games!

>>723369947
nta but "some people would think that is a waste of time" is such an empty, meaningless thing to say in response.

>>723362539
Why master a game system that'll get dropped in the next entry?

>>723369947
Some people have it in their head that individual segments of games can be "done" and therefore never need to be played again. It's a lazy rationalization for cheating. Basically the modern generation never knew a world where you only had a limited number of games and you experienced the same ones repeatedly.

>>723368850
>Also the push to recognise video games as art is killing their essence
it wouldn't be if the average retard understood that art is self expression through application of skill in any medium.
that includes mechanical design.

>>723370452
Well said

>>723370274
Quicksaves are not save states. Nobody cares about your F5 spam, it's in the game. Save states and rewind are emulation features that have tricked zoom-zooms into thinking they have experienced a game because they saw what every level looks like without having to actually play the game.

Zooms can't handle any semblance of struggle, unless it's a f2p GaaS game where they can keep throwing money at the problem.

>>723370360
They'd sweat on Halo on fucking normal. PC gamers are the biggest casuals abusing literal save states and mods to make games easier.

>>723370305
turn-based STRPGs battles take way too long to finish, and worst of all is that you can usually see when you're about to lose/win a couple of turns before hand, so it's not that exciting.

I've yet to find a turn-based STRPG with battles that are short enough and exciting.
Or maybe turn-based STRPGs were never my thing.

>>723370274
Fun fact: the Daggerfall manual advises against savescumming. That would be fine and dandy if this wasn't written in the manual for a fucking Bethesda game that could crash at any moment.

>>723370380
Indeed it is. That was my point.
>>723370436
It’s sad to see, like seeing someone who watched a video essay about a book claim that they still “experienced” it.

>>723370360
desu I remember sweating like fuck as a PCfag playing Halo on legendary even with the massive M+KB advantage. As silly as it sounds, the idea of a game that you'd have to struggle to complete was novel. Most PC FPS were enjoyed kind of as a sandbox rather than a challenge, although Halo had that element as well.

Although, even if you tried to play a PC FPS without saving much, it would be less fun. Because there were safe ways to play like sitting behind a corner and shotgunning enemies one by one, and if you felt actual risk, you might end up playing in a boring way. Halo was also neat in that the elite AI at least was harder to exploit like that. Shame about the second half of the game

>>723370485
thanks man. sometimes I feel like I'm going insane because everyone around doesn't seem to use their brain to just do some base thinking about things. happy im not entirely alone

>>723362089 (OP)
agreed, you didn't beat the game
YOU
LOST
THE
GAME

>>723369860
which all are very low visibility, easily ignored and broken. You never get middle of the screen giant popup like elden ring.

>>723370560
>you can usually see when you're about to lose/win a couple of turns before hand

That's fair, restarting a battle when it's already a foregone conclusion makes sense.

It sounded more like brute forcing the game by rewinding every move/turn if you didn't like the outcome, which would seem to remove any enjoyment you could get from forming a strategy in a strategy game.

>>723362089 (OP)
mike is a schizo but I agree with him on this

>>723370603
ah okay, I misunderstood then

>>723370616
i think people around my age don't quite appreciate or understand that we just naturally were implicitly taught by the games from our childhood that challenge is a normal and fun part of the experience. to us it's as natural as breathing.

someone who grew up in the xbox360 era and later is totally fucked on that front

>>723370627
At least one other poster here sees eye to eye with you as well. “Art” is some guy with a mustache in a stripy shirt and a beret sneering and smoking a cigarette to the “they aren’t art” crowd, it would seem.

>go to baseball tryouts
>never played before
>ball is pitched at me
>I strike out
>fuck if only I could have save stated before the pitcher threw I would totally have hit a home run

>>723362089 (OP)
>zoomer
listen, i played all that shit on real hardware, when i had infinite patience and free time.

im not replaying shit like dk64 without savestates and the swap everywhere hack. i have a job now. fuck you.

>>723362089 (OP)
Who the fuck cares how people play their games

>>723365415
Gen beta was just born so they'll call them boomers again in a few decades

>>723371089
the post wasn't adressed to you, quite clearly.

you did take an anonymous post personally enough to reply to it with an image, despite your limited free time.

you should think on that

Zoomers robbing themselves out of their experiences was nothing new. It's not my problem if some mouthbreathers want to watch a movie on x3 speed

>>723371090
the problem isn't how people play games. the problem is that we have an epidemic of retarded zoomers butting in in discussions, giving unqualified and objectively wrong opinions on games they didn't really play, while thinking their "takes" have any value

>NOOOO I NEED TO BEAT THE GAME. ALL GAMES MUST BEND TO MY WILL. IF I CANT BEAT IT RIGHT NOW IT'LL BE IN MY BACKLOG FOREVER NOOOOOO
you faggots deserve nothing less than a painful death

>>723371217
That shit freaks me the fuck out.

>>723371243
The overwhelming majority of discussions about even old vidya I see have little or nothing to do with gameplay anyway

>>723371217
>It's not my problem if some mouthbreathers want to watch a movie on x3 speed

The sped up movies is a good comparison.

But it's everyone's problem when these people can vote.

I WILL judge you based on how you interact with vidya

>>723371476
Me too. Everyone does.

>>723371421
that is another problem and true too. though i do wonder how much not actually engaging with the gameplay fosters this as well

>>723371442
A lot of zoomers just watch tube recaps now instead, save even more time

>>723364445
Does anyone have that other retarded ruleset where you're supposed to play RPS for the smash ball?

>>723371442
>believes in voting
Even if you actually do believe in santa, you need to realize that their behavior is a symptom, not a cause. Take away their save states, and they'll still be retarded.

>>723362089 (OP)
Most modern games require less patience overall, yet also demand retention in an increasingly saturated market where designers have distilled player manipulation to a science. Newer generations no doubt are less likely to get acclimated with older design philosophies more than just looking at them like a checklist. Thus, rewinding and save states being normalized for re-released games that are not realistically designed around their usage are basically bandaid solutions to reach the credits and then move on without giving them any much thought later on.

>>723362191
You can play how you want, but it will never be the right way. Does this bother you?
We want you to have the right experience, instead of cheapening the games and yourselves.

>>723362563
Trvkageddon, the people getting upset are people without lives who spend way too much time caring about pushing their personal "achievements" onto others

>>723363935
Friendly reminder that I am from the shardee and this was generated by gemini 2.5 pro and you niggers were baited GEG make this nigger thread a schizorald

>>723372027
you still don't understand it's not about beating the game. its about that you played the game in ways never intended or designed for which will alter how you experience the game. it also let's you get away with beating the game without having learned its mechanics and layouts properly in many cases.
but you still think you can partake in discussions of that game when you, really, don't even properly understand it, so your opinion is worthless now.

the fact you think beating the game is what matters is why you think save states are legitimate, because they allow you to reach your goal (beating the game) quicker and easier. you don't realise the fun and in fact "getting it" comes from learning, maybe even mastering the game.

you are essentially claiming watching a movie in 3x speed is equivalent to watching it as intended. or thinking reading cliffnotes of a book means you have the same depth of understanding as someone who really read it and paid attention.

tl;dr you don't get it. you holistically don't understand what we are even discussing

>>723372339
FUCKING KEK IS THIS THE BOT?

>>723362089 (OP)
Zoomers think watching playthroughs counts as experiencing a game. This is actually an improvement.

I'm a late zoomer but I used to only play the Super Nintendo when I was a kid because it belonged to my parents. Memorizing an entire game and beating it in just 3 lives was fun when you were a kid trying to kill time, but I cant go back to it. Especially after playing newer games with better controls.

Also you faggots had Nintendo power magazine, FUCK YOU

>>723372695
There are 0 (zero) (none) SNES games that have 0 continues (force you to beat in 3 lives)

>>723372695
>newer games with better controls
depending on which games you played and what games you play now this is an extremely ignorant and lolworthy thing to say

>>723372695
>nintendo power magazine
not everyone is an american with chronic learned helplessness that can only be alleviated by engaging in consumerism

>>723363981
Have you considered not playing shitty games?

>>723363981
i think it's safe to say you never practiced a sport or learned an instrument

>>723372695
Ah yes, the magical magazine that when you read it instantly makes it so you can clear that jump you kept messing up

>>723373160
You niggers are so blind you can't even tell when you're arguing with bots

>>723364113
>Didn't respond to any of the posts BTFO of him and scurried away.
That's okay anon. I accept your apology even if you're too scared and not manly enough to admit you were wrong.

>>723362191
I'm almost 40 and I think the overwhelming majority of games in the early 90s are designed like total dogshit.
Using a rewind feature just to see what else is in the game besides the terrible anti-fun game design is why certain classics are even cared about today. Amazing sprite work, immersive atmosphere, or great music is often part of a fucking abysmal gameplay experience that absolutely does not hold up.

There's way too many people pretending they didn't use cheat codes as much as humanly possible when they were a kid. Things were built into the game for fun's sake and OH LOOK AT THAT GOD MODE WAS EVERYWHERE AT ONE POINT.
Elitists of gayest variety.

>>723373293
>admitting to being a casual poser

>>723366757
you wrote all this because you are too autistic to infer that he was pleading for actual engagement through consumption and therefore not just blind consumption without thought or appreciation.

reading one word too literally and in a vacuum made you spill your spaghetti

>>723362443
>Nearly all games had cheat codes at one point, even the sacred ball-twisting Contra series
>uhm ackshually turbo hard bullshit is true fun and using any advantage makes you inferior to me and is factually wrong and not fun

You people are faggots. Nobody likes you and it's why you are powerless to change the course we are now on where insane difficulty is gay and not fun.(true)

>>723362191
Found the nigger

>>723373293
>developers make fun of losers who can only win with cheats
Based, miss those days.

KEK I CAN'T THEY'RE STILL GOING

Entire thread derailed by gemini award

>>723372878
Youre right, I was exaggerating. Battletoads and Mario I think had 3 lives and no continues, but thats all I got. Contra had 3 and 3, but thats still pretty hard. Lots of games had those password systems.
>>723373009
Nor is everyone a child willing to sacrifice dozens of hours to beat a game thats 30 minutes long. But ill admit its very exciting.
>>723373160
It gave you infinite lives, but i guess that isnt as bad as save scumming every jump.

Sorry everyone, I dont even know who I am angry at lol

>>723362089 (OP)
There ain't no point to the game. You don't ever run out of the going back in time potion.

>>723373293
>Amazing sprite work, immersive atmosphere, or great music is often part of a fucking abysmal gameplay experience that absolutely does not hold up.

you can't just say that with no examples and expect us to just agree.
maybe on PC this was the case as for some reason, games largely sucked there until the mid to later 90s, or more generally slowly after Doom

>>723373378
I've been playing video games since before a bacterial colony released the spore that formed you, vermin.
Hard games are bad. Always have been. Always will be.

The overwhelming profit and popularity from games that refused to be retard hard is undeniable proof that you people have always been irrelevant pathetic scum with nothing more than a superiority complex.
Kill yourself and put the death of difficulty in your suicide note, faggot.

>>723373543
>Nor is everyone a child willing to sacrifice dozens of hours to beat a game thats 30 minutes long. But ill admit its very exciting.
true and true. it is exciting, so you can keep doing it as an adult too.

>>723372695
>Also you faggots had Nintendo power magazine, FUCK YOU
You have the fucking internet.

>>723364113
Fucking retard holy shit just kys

>>723362089 (OP)
i wasnt aware this was in any game other than Forza. i dont care if people use it since it seems most people buy games and skip 90% of the game's content already, speed running to the credits without ever becoming deeply invested in the game.

>>723373627
People will write seething posts like this over games like Contra, something anyone can learn how to play in a few hours at most without cheats.

>>723373627
you are a real shitter.
are you also angry that other people can play an instrument or are good at a sport?

"hard games are bad" has to be one of the most ignorant, ill-informed, and quite frankly, infantile things I have ever seen anyone say. and considering you seem to be even older than me, that is quite an achievement in a negative sense.

holy shit

>>723373543
>It gave you infinite lives
Where?

>>723373529
I genuinely hate you, anon. The internet is going to be completely unusable in the near future, and here you are hastening its death.

>>723365270
>epen
Look everyone, we have a poet over here!

>>723373761
Every game had an infinite lives cheat in NPM.
Im just seething because I didnt know there were cheats as a kid

>>723373560
You are wrong and won't tell me how to make my point. I know how you smug faggots work. No example I list will be permitted. Retards like you are full of shit and have been my whole life.
There's billions of dollars proving you to be nothing more than an unwanted niche that got way too much service in the 90s and I couldn't be more pleased that video games have moved away from catering to fuckheads like you.
You smug, condescending rats fucking suck and nobody cares what you think anymore.

You cunts are the equivalent of people who only want movies to be 4 hour long emotional dramatic operas with deep character development and vague philosophical themes.
You don't understand how wrong and stupid you are yet you act superior for having such shit taste. I will never ever meet your goals because I don't have to. You have been thoroughly proven wrong for the past 20 years straight by the entire industry at large.
Now cry about brown people when disproven like you usually do.

>>723373736
Contra had cheat codes that made it fun, faggot.
Infact Contra is probably the single biggest example of a game that is bullshit hard to the point it sucks but is still fondly remembered because of cheats and rewind features.

Pathetic that you handed the example to me.

>>723374045
lol ur brown

>>723373885
Can you show me the infinite lives cheat for Zelda 2?

>>723373757
>Comparing a hard game to an instrument
>Implying liking bad game design means one is more skilled

Like I said. Smug, condescending faggots. You lost. Video Games have left you behind.

Nintendo has official rewind features on their consoles for their old games.

You

Lost

>>723374113
You are genuinely too shit at games. If you can't learn how to play a game as simple as Contra then you must have difficulty learning in general.

I don't get it. You still have to make the jump and get the timing right. What difference does it make how many times you repeat the other parts you already did successfully?

>>723362089 (OP)
ok Mike Matei

>>723374165
I'm white and live in a rural white town in Maine where blacks are browns are practically illegal
You just proved everything I said right.

I win.

>>723374279
Post hand

>>723374045
you are just very mad, it's not necessary on an anonymous online table leveling forum.

dishonest baiters usually just say "name five examples" or something like that. I genuinely wanted to know what games you mean, because I can't think of any that fit your description. i even explained why.

but seeing as you are a fully grown man, so not in control of himself as to throw a hissy fit when being asked to explain himself, probably nothing good can come from talking to you anyway.
and before you go all "see, i knew you were an asshole" on me like some mentally ill woman:
this is called a self fulfilling prophecy. i asked a normal question, you respond in an absolutely unhinged manner and when i am then naturally not nice back, you think you're the victim and i was the bad guy all along.

i hope you go through some personal growth still

>>723374254
I don’t use savestates or rewind because I enjoy challenging myself to clear obstacles as they were intended to be presented to me. If you don’t enjoy that, I get why you would use cheats.

>>723374205
I beat it. You can only seethe that you wasted twice as much time and had half the fun because you were raped as a child and can't enjoy anything unless it's unpleasant.
Kill yourself.

>>723374254
if you play a piece of music on an instrument you can't play well or at all, but you take as long as you want and as many tries as you want on every single note, did you really play the piece?

just use your brain a bit

>>723374378
I was kinda on your side in your initial post, but you’re kinda revealing yourself to be a bit of a retarded asshole as you keep posting.

>>723362815
How new are you? If anything, the amount of people agreeing with Mike is significantly higher than it was five years ago.

>>723362191
They're too scared to step out in public to accomplish something so they fill the void with games.

I don't care how other people play their singleplayer games I don't give a shit what others think about how I play them either.

>>723374378
I've played through Contra countless times, enough to have beaten it with no deaths and without any power ups. You'll never know the feeling of having mastered a game because you're mentally retarded.

>>723369378
The older zoomers are 30 years old.

>>723374279
>amerimutt
Not white. You lose.

>>723374478
completely not understanding and missing the point

read the thread, low attention span faggot

>>723374430
Yes. Most modern music is not recorded in a single take, and will splice many together to form a final master.

>>723374302
You don't get to tell me what to do, nigger.

>>723374279
>being circumcised
>winning
lmao

>>723374494
I did not get called a millennial for a decade just for some guy on /v/ to turn around call me a freakin’ zoomer >:|

>>723374430
if you play one note and then wait ten minutes and play the other note did you really play the song

>>723374305
>More smug preaching
Shut up, faggot.
You lost and all you have is ad hominem and logical fallacy.

>>723374346
That's cool, but the challenge is exactly the same. You already did that part, so what are you actually challenging yourself to do besides something you already know you can do and have done multiple times?

>>723362089 (OP)
It's dumb to obsess over, but he is obviously correct. It's not the same game if the parameters under which you beat it are the game, it is a.... game changer.

>>723374527
stop dodging the question.

session recording for an album or a single is not the same as playing through a piece/learning a piece.
and you seem to know enough about music to know exactly what I mean and you know I'm right

>>723374434
No you weren't on my side ever. You were on your own smug morally superior side like the fickle retard you are.

This whole thread is mostly sub-human vermin pretending to be superior. It's disgusting.

>>723374589
>You already did that part
Where does this mindset come from? "I played that part exactly one time in my life, therefore I will avoid ever experiencing ever again" is such an insane thought process to me.

>>723374568
like i said, nothing good cab come from talking with you.

stay circumcised my friend

>>723362089 (OP)
This is a ragebait thread of a 5 year old tweet

Reminder that this retard is whose gameplay you saw on AVGN. This little fucking incel has no right to tell anyone how to play games where he gets stumpes by the most obvious shit in games.
If you're upset by people using save states you're likely some shitter who's bad at vidya. Everyone who's legit doesn't give a shit if normies want to have an easier time.

>>723362191
nigger

>The burger flippers are bragging about beating video games again
aw man

>>723374679
>Still smug and superior

You are a walking "nothing good". You are below scum. Maggots are better than you. At least they have a use.

>>723374647
>This whole thread is mostly sub-human vermin pretending to be superior. It's disgusting

brutal projection.
seriously though, why are you so virulently angry?
and more importantly, why are you staying here, screaming into the void?

>>723374759
>Smug and superior again
I don't answer questions from drain residue.

>>723374528
Lol brownoid

>>723374673
they never had to or wanted to ever learn anything.

it's what they're taught in school too. "learn" and regurgitate information once for the test, then move on. they weren't taught what being a proper human being and a real experience of a thing is

>>723374589
You’ve got to be trolling, but I’ll reply in earnest anyways because why not.
Using a savestate in the middle of a level, to me, is like taking a three-day break ten miles into a marathon. If I ran eleven miles after returning from my break, would you say that I’ve run a marathon? I wouldn’t.

>>723374647
That was my first reply to you. Get a fucking grip, anon.

>>723374673
It comes from playing different games and wanting to experience different things. If it satisfies your autism to only play the same thing over and over again cool but normal people don't replay or reread shit unless it's some special favorite of theirs.
If you complete a level once it's retarded of a game to ask you to keep doing it again until you do it while also completing an arbitrary number of other levels in a row. If you did it once you clearly get the mechanics and can move on.

>>723374734
>still circumcised
you just keep getting angrier. this is what real people do. you are so much better than the "scum" in this thread
(who you willingly spend time with)

>>723374808
You were actually the first to break anonymity and claim you were white.
Something you didn't even slightly attempt to proce yet demanded others do for you.

Also only actual brownoids use that as an insult because they know what it's like firsthand and can't imagine a worse fate.

I beat Mario Kart 64 with save states. First try actually. 0 losses on my record. undefeated champion Toad.

>>723374898
>If you did it once you clearly get the mechanics and can move on.
What a lazy mindset. If you run out of lives and continues then you clearly don't get it.

>>723374925
Post hand

i bought the recent port on steam and have no shame rewinding these constant deaths

why traverse for 3 minutes of nothing after every bullshit death?

>>723374632
Learning a piece is not usually done from the top every time. You will focus on the bars you struggle with, so why not replay the part of a level you are having trouble with?
You can always just replay the level after you've completed it to see if you can 1cc it.

I've beaten a lot of hard vidya without savestates. some of these challenges I'm not sure every anon here could actually beat and I still use savestates sometimes. Mostly for impatience cause I don't feel like sitting through the game over screen

because dying and losing a whole progress in a dungeon makes you not want to play the game anymore save states make everything way better

>>723374830
Says an incel neet chudster on 4chan without higher education. These people you're making fun of are all more of a proper human being than you'll ever be.

>real experience is when grinding 8 bits
lol lmao rofl even

>>723362191
>how does the health and integrify of society affect you in any way

>>723374647
You're correct but you'd convince more people if you didn't act unhinged.

>>723363981
Literally, unironically yes you fucking retarded zoomer. Mastering a challenging arcade game and 1ccing it is more emotionally stimulating than clearing most AAA games released in the past decade. I'm not even against save states, I think they're great QOL additions for casuals, but games are 10x more fun when you're working towards that flawless playthrough

>>723374837
By that logic, taking yourself out of the mental state to go back to the beginning of a level is more of a break than demanding immediate focus by putting yourself back in the middle of the part that you struggled with.
Is pausing the game also wrong in your eyes? I can relax on the pause menu and go take a piss before returning to the part where I left off.

>>723362089 (OP)
If you want the authentic experience, why not just buy the console and a used CRT television? You can still get both for pretty cheap.

>>723374883
I know that. You are still not interested in the truth because you decided against it entirely because some fucking retards insisted sales and popularity don't matter in an industry that requires profit to produce content.

You sided with the smug retards because you want to feel superior and be among them as peers. You have no interest in decency or fun. You want to be adored by your peers yet these peers are pathetic vermin.

You the truth wrapped up in a cute little box with "nice" written on it. You want autistic cold-hard statistics and citations that you can use to twist your own truth into reality instead of using basic fucking thinking and logic to want and enjoy GOOD THINGS THAT ARE FUN.
You want to feel superior. That's all you wanted before you made your first post.

Fuck you. Fuck everyone like you.
Now cry about hypocrisy like the smug little fucking vermin you are. I spit on you.

>>723362089 (OP)
retard

>>723375052
yeah, the analogy isn't perfect, but in that sense, you can't really say you have learned the piece if you just did all the parts once successfully and seperately.

that is what I'm trying to get at. levels in old games aren't individual challenges in a vacuum, but a chain of challenges that the game expects you to successfully do in a row in whatever way you see fit with the mechanics provided, without too many mistakes

>>723373627
Not him, but I'm 38 years old. You are a massive tool and a retard. Hard games are fun as shit specifically because they're hard. I derive enjoyment from mastering something.
Are you a woman by any chance? If not, then your brain is just defective.

>>723375198
Are you a robot? What the fuck am I even reading.

A few months ago I beat Wolfenstein 2 on Mein Leben (the difficulty where if you die you restart the whole game and you also die in a few hits)
After doing the early chapters dozens of times I stopped doing them properly and just ran past enemies where I could.
Would it have been different If I fought every single enemy that crossed my path? Idk.

Why should I even care when I know that absolutely none of the devs beat this difficulty?

Even when you anons talk about retro games, I doubt that more than a handful of devs on the team ever beat the games without using cheats.
Devs have and always will be retarded. you should watch videos of devs playing their own games and see just how dogshit they are at them.
You talk about "the intended experience" but there is a huge chance that (You) yourself played the game differently than how the dev expected it to be played.

>>723374914
I'm not circumcised and I'm not posting my penis.

Interesting how you can't believe people exist that are white and uncircumcised.
You must have never personally seen such a thing.

>>723375052
This would be a correct way to use save states, but 99% of the people using them aren't doing it that way.
When we talk about using save states, we're talking about people doing this >>723363098

>>723363098
this is the main issue, people dont want to think or try at anything and they'll turn around and call YOU weird for being concered for them. Sure, everyone is allowed to cut off their limbs and poke their eyes out, but nobody would recommend you do that and everyone would tell you NOT to do it for your own sake.
Why is it so hard to understand that a game is better when you're not spoiled on the challenge and gameplay? Do these people even like playing games?

>>723369243
theyre boring. people just shouldnt play shitty old games. just for the worst stair mechanic of all time alone

>>723374589
>so what are you actually challenging yourself to do
By not losing continues, lives, or health through those previous points. Possibly even having means to gain lives so I can stock up for trouble portions of the game, and possibly have other items or power ups. There is also a satisfaction in having a part down and playing it well rather than simply getting through it.

>>723362191
People without are overly concerned with others. Happens in every hobby.

>>723374925
Post hand or stfu sperging out you're embarrassing

>>723375130
Health and integrity of society is determined by how many people use save states? Take your meds.

>>723375190
>By that logic, taking yourself out of the mental state to go back to the beginning of a level is more of a break than demanding immediate focus by putting yourself back in the middle of the part that you struggled with.
It isn’t. I don’t think I really care to elaborate any further. I would just repeat myself.

>>723375021
You were the first to claim you were white by using the insult yet have only expressed a deep understanding of what it's like to be brown.
I refuse to do what you tell me. A white trait.

>>723370597
Read the manual more closely. Context is important.

Reminder "zoomer vs millennial" is a psyop so people stop noticing the real problem is jews and fight each other instead

>>723375312
Are you intentionally misunderstanding the post or are you being 100% serious

>>723375094
im not even talking to you, go live out your weird narcissistic tendencies with someone else

like this unhinged mongoloid for example>>723375198

>>723375087
Maybe that's a good stopping point for the day. Games shouldn't always be something that keep stringing you along to play for 10+ hours a day.

>>723362089 (OP)
People have been using save states on emulators before you were even born.

>>723362089 (OP)
>soft locked myself because of auto save
bitch give me the option to manual save fuck auto save in general.

>>723375228
>misogyny out of nowhere
you're the almost 40 yo acting like an incel virgin debating retro games, are you sure it isn't your brain that is broken?

>>723375252
since you said you were an amerigolem i assumed you were, since most of you are statistically. it is simple logic

>>723375238
It legitimately depends on the game, try beating some of the staff ghosts on F-Zero GX, it'll take weeks of learning how to take every single corner perfectly, and that's only achievable if you're skilled enough. The first Mute City track's ghost comes to mind as particularly difficult.

>>723375181
I don't need to convince anyone. That's what none of these smug cunts comprehend.

Official nintendo consoles have rewind features in their emulators.
Games that aren't bullshit hard became the gold standard in the late 90s because everyone everywhere hated hard bullshit. They immediately became more profitable than films.
This is a settled topic and I enjoy insulting the retarded.

>>723375356
>actually you're supposed to fuck up some stuff so you have a reason to sink more hours into our game
Holy shit lol

>>723375354
>doesnt capitalize the W
Post shit colored hand

>>723375364
Why are you on 4chins arguing about pixels if you care about society?

I think theres degrees to it. The defensive savestate users are the ones who use it every 3 seconds and rewind whenever they take a hit. Those people are addicted to avoiding consequence, which is expected behavior in humans. Nobody wants to face consequences, but they're what make life so precious. Video games are the only medium where you can have a "life" inside the game, and face consequences for actions, that's literally what gameplay is. People who don't enjoy gameplay will use savestates to get through a game and that's fine, but they did not really play the game. Because the definition of play is to abide by a games rules, and savestate abuse is not in the game's rules.

>>723362089 (OP)
Wow

>>723375356
I agree with the sentiment expressed, it's just that Daggerfall has the potential to crash at literally any moment. Saving constantly is a good idea with that in mind.

>>723375312
His point is in line of
>if you have to cheat in a video game you chose to play, its kind of scary to imagine how do you response to actual real life issues beyond your control
And don't go whole
>i-its different!
on me, I know for sure people are either stubborn enough to overcome strugless or they start whine and bitch about any tension they are facing.

>>723375228
Yikes you just proved how evil "hard games enjoyers" really are.
This is why the industry is leaving you behind, sweetie.

>>723375515
Is it really a fuck up when it opens up other possibilities in-game?

>>723375356
kek

>>723375515
the risk of failing is what makes it a game. How did this fact get lost to time?

>I want to play a game but I don't want to lose
this is a 4 year old's mentality, you were supposed to grow out of it.

>>723374168
There isnt one, but you dont start over in Zelda 2. Only the dungeon you died in resets i think.

Just add achievements to the old games that disables them for using save states. There I saved your zoomer conundrum, now you have to git gud or no cheevos for u

>>723375505
>the majority of people are retarded and skilless, therefore being skilless and retarded is the correct way

holy shit, the opinions keep becoming more idiotic, I didn't think it was possible

>>723375636
retroachievements does this somewhat

I use savestates as "leaving the game on" when I'm done playing and come back to it later. That's about it, I can't imagine loading a state right before jumping over a pit, what is the fucking point of that? Might as well use invincibility cheats.

>>723375581
And I agree. It's just that the manual isn't about saving constantly, but reloading whenever the slightest thing go wrong.

>>723375401
Exactly.

>>723375636
It would be that 'we are not the same' meme where one uses savestate to practice ho-hit run while others will do it to brute force trough the game as their only way to beat it. As everything else, savestates have nuances to them.

>games are meant to be fun
challenge is fun
>these old games that are timeless classics are not actually fun
so why are you playing them?

>>723375234
>No reading comprehension
>woah this guy must be a robot since I am so superior and nobody would ever call out my bullshit
Like I said. You never cared about seeing reality. You're a fucking retard that likes hard games because you can pretend you aren't a worthless idiot for half an hour(the real length of shitty hard games)

You formed this opinion because the alternative was all these sub-human vermin disliking you for having a fucking lick of sense or self-respect.

>>723375494
That's intelligent and fair.
Maybe I was all wrong about you, champ.
You seem like a cool guy.

>>723375893
right on, man

>>723375674
>Still only has "actually I'm superior" for an argument

Still losing

>>723375824
This is really sad and strange. I’m really nothing like what you describe. I’m not really a “hardcore gamer” by any stretch of the imagination.
You’re way too old to be throwing a literal tantrum over nothing.

>>723376017
He's a brown kid, 17 at most

>>723375674
>Implying games from the late 90s aren't the peak of the hobby

This is why you retards are inherently wrong and nobody bothers sincerely arguing with you. The ultimate argument that difficulty does not equal good is the quality of the games themselves increasing radically when "difficulty to extend playtime" stopped being accepted by everyone everywhere.

You are genuinely arguing a point so retarded that your smug sense of superiority is just plain funny. Your clowns and mocking you is entertainment.

>>723374478
Hey! I’m social! I go to concerts and bars. I like spending time with people, work a little part time job that I like AND play video games. But according to /v/ this makes me a normalfag

>>723376112
You are a normalfag indeed. You'd be in better company on reddit.
Not trying to be insulting, it's just true

>>723376112
Depending on how butthurt you get those guys, sometimes you’re a failed normalfag.

>>723376017
I'm calming explaining why you are a fucking moron I have no obligation to please. You choosing to interpret that as a "tantrum" is just more low-iq behavior from a smug retard with no reading comprehension.

>>723376085
Crying about browness is a declaration of being white.
You are unable to backup the claim.
This means your insult is instead coming from a place of personal experience on being brown.
I will never do what you tell me.

>>723375583
so in your eyes, a dad who's worked hard his entire life and has a loving family boots up his kid's switch for the first time to play some old game for the first time ever and sees the option to simply save his progress so he can go work or take care of his child or fuck his wife, that man is a whiny bitch to you?

>>723376337
>doesnt capitalize the W
Post shit colored hand

>>723376337
I think your helmet might be on too tight.

>>723375814
>fun is an objective quality
midwit alert

>>723376342
These people are vermin. You know the answer is yes.

They genuinely believe an actual superior subject is somehow beneath them because they played a shitty video game the way the autistic japanese developer wanted them to.(The same developer who now works in a higher position at the company and said yes to allowing rewinds in his game for re-releases)

>>723375505
>They immediately became more profitable than films.
>Implying this is a good thing
>>723376342
That's what we call a casual.

>>723376484
sounds like he casually beat the game

>>723376413
>Being white means you're racist and nazi

So you really are brown and just hurling it around as an insult because you know how bad it is firsthand.

>>723376380
>Demands something so trivial to qualify for whiteness
Is this so you can feel better about not qualifying for the important stuff yourself?

>Can't beat a game without savestates
>b-b-but muh wife and kids!11!
Normalfags. Normalfags never change.

>>723376484
These "casuals" sure seem to be way better than you at literally everything in life and can beat the same games as you in half the time.
It's pretty sad actually.

It's fair to draw a firm distinction between video games and real life accomplishment, but at the same time, if you constantly rewind instead of learning to improve, you are actively training yourself to be impatient and unable to cope with adversity. The way we play games can influence our development just like everything else.

>>723376703
>Can't have fun without suffering and struggle
>Demands other people feel this way or they are inferior and being dominated

Childhood rape victims. Childhood rape victims never change.

>>723376694
Anon, I meant a retard helmet for retards, not a stahlhelm. Holy shit lol

>>723376779
You are also going to have a shitty, neutered experience by removing the stakes.

>>723362191
because balding man children are mad they wasted dozens of hours on bing bing wahoo while zoomer chuds skate by in 30 mins

>>723376814
Why do you play video games if you view them as suffering?

>>723375583
if you think cheating in a video game is the same as letting a nigger smoke meth on the street, you should kill yourself

>>723376779
This argument cannot be refuted so they don't touch it. People will say video games inhibit development and make you unable to cope with real life and all sorts of other bad stuff, but they can't say abusing savestates does the same thing. If anything, they think using savestates absolves them from being accused of the act of "playing" video games, they feel normal for relying on savestates since they don't have to think or try or care about the game they're playing.

They're in a superposition of both playing the game and not playing games like a loser.

>>723376779
This is true and it's why games quickly transitioned to design that is not so unpleasantly difficult that anyone would need a rewind.
You have to argue that games in the late 90s and early 2000s are not some of the best ever made to insist that bullshit trial-and-error difficulty is good design. That trash was dead and buried by that point. Save states, memory cards, passwords, and checkpoints were nearly mandatory.

Games exist with a rewind feature built in as well. Prince Of Persia and Blinx. I'm sure there's more.
The idea anyone is superior for not using a rewind feature is pure lunacy. It's founded on nothing. One still has to complete certain specific difficult tasks to complete the game. It's not fucking magic.

Page 9 niggers get your last words in
>Spergs

>>723376876
I never said that, retard. Learn some basic reading comprehension.
Get some taste too.

>>723376952
I actually just refuted it in a different post but you'll just willfully misunderstand it and act smug. You are not superior for liking trial-and-error design.
You are never being respected by this industry again and that's genuinely fucking fantastic.

>>723364282
>and people I told it too didn't give much of a damn
Here in lies your issue zoomoid. You see all accomplishments as something to tell someone else about. To earn the praise of your peers like an attention starved teenage girl.
Just like men climb a mountain for no other benefit than themselves, true gaymers complete a challenge for their own self-satisfaction.

>>723377201
You're relating suffering with video games, not the post that you were responding to.

/vr/ is destroying this board

>>723362089 (OP)
>play game
>die and lose to bullshit mechanic or technical issues
>lose half an hour progress
yeah I'm going to savescum out of my ass or just not play, time is incomparably more valuable and I'm not here to prove myself to any faggot dev or gamer. Prove yourself in real life first

>>723376952
Refutation:
You still have to the hard thing to beat the hard game.
Rewinding and save states save time instead of wasting it doing repetitive braindead bullshit before you can engage with the true challenge again.

That guy is right. You people are actually fucking insane with superior you think you are. Genuine mental illness. Nothing can prove you wrong.

>>723377274
Well yeah, the industry moved on from 80's and 90's design. It takes an entire console generation now to have comparable amounts of good games that the 90's had in a single year.

>>723377304
No. I relate it to shitty video games with bad anti-fun design. You fucking retard.

The notion that you can’t agree with Motherfucker Mike without somehow seeing beating video games as some sort of monumental achievement worth bragging about is pretty goddamn stupid.

>>723377310
/vr/ thinks the late 90s and early 2000s are the peak of video games.

An era where bullshit hard games with trial-and-error design were dead and buried.

>>723377342
Bro, time isn't valuable. We're all arguing with anonymous people in a thread that vanishes in less than a day. Who knows if the cycle will repeat again.

>>723377342
>read half a book
>no clue how it ends yet
>still 150 pages to go
yeah I’m going to just go read a synopsis or just stop reading, time is incomparably more valuable and I’m not here to prove myself to any faggot author or reader.
Prove yourself in real life first

>>723377387
Yes. That's an example of the industry giving up on fun and instead focusing on profit and addiction.
That doesn't refute what I said. If anything you're agreeing that focusing on fun is more important than anything else and that difficulty for the sake of difficulty is deranged sadomasochistic nonsense ESPECIALLY when it wastes the only resource you cannot buy, time.

>>723377412
And what is this shitty anti-fun design?

>>723377597
Megaman's teleporting block jump puzzles.
Bottom of the barrel utter dogshit design that only mentally ill rape victims enjoy.

>>723377364
>true challenge
And what is this "true challenge" supposed to be? The boss fights? If someone cannot do the previous challenges before the so-called "true challenge" can he really be considered good at the game? Seems to me that people who use save states can't regulate their emotions, so they just call everything shitty and expect everyone to cater to their needs.

>>723377364

You think its trial and error design because you are conditioned to rely on savestates. While us, the people not using savestates, tell you that its fun to take your time with a game and lose sometimes.

And dont pretend this is about old games, if modern games had the capability to save the entire RAM in a savestate and let you reload instantly, you'd be using it there too. Its not about old games being harder but the technology being just a button click away. You did not refute anything, because I didn't say you "didn't beat the game". I said you're not even PLAYING the game.

>>723362583
>muh narrative
doesn't make a difference

>>723377676
You're becoming more and more deranged. Why are you so mad? Anyway if you don't like it then don't play it. There are so many more games and they don't have vanishing block platforms. Are you forcing yourself to play through Megaman or what?

>>723377572
They just made these old novels hard to read with big words on purpose so you'd have to imagine the scenario and envision all the scenes in your head. It just wastes time, so reading a synopsis is the smart thing to do.

>>723377676
>filtered

>>723377809
Hahaha FUCK lol

Why do these people even pretend to like video games

remember that kid who would turn the game off right before you win in mario kart or something? The people defending savestates never grew out of that.

>>723377364
>You still have to the hard thing to beat the hard game.
So what you are saying is - the difficulty of beating the full level of, let's say, twelve screens is the same as going trough it but rewinding every death or damage taken?

>>723377572
>read book
>page 145 didn't load properly so now I forgot what I read
>back to page 80
good analogy there

>>723363214
not all games are designed to be fun

>>723377676
I can’t say you’re really winning me over with the whole punching down on rape victims thing.

>>723377789
>Are you forcing yourself to play through Megaman or what?
Yes, the game is critically acclaimed so there is dissonance when they play it and they aren't having fun but they dont want to drop it either.

>>723377676
That is not a sign of "anti-fun design." It's more a sign of how (You) don't like platforming challenges. Go play other games then.
>>723377809
kek

>>723377676
It's also an example of design that is so terrible even with rewind gives the overwhelming majority of players the same sense of anger and disgust.
The players with rewind saved a significant portion of their time though.

It's probably most potent example for the argument that bullshit hard difficulty is simply bad design that nobody sane and rational appreciates. This shit is downright infamous despite rewinds being standard now.

It's hard and it wastes your time. It's bad.
Both rewinders and autistic retards know this
BECAUSE

REWINDING DOES NOT TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM AN EXPERIENCE

CASE CLOSED

I SENTENCE THE DEFENDANT TO LIFETIME RAPE AND ROUTINE BEATINGS

>>723377878
they dont consider taking risks or sidestepping dangerous enemies to be gameplay. Making the choice to skip a platform in a jump to save time/be stylish but also risk falling just doesn't register to them, the only want to get to the end to say they beat the game. They're not actually having fun in the moment-to-moment gameplay. Fighting bosses is what they mean by "hard.

>>723377789
>Why are you so mad?
>Who are you?
>What's happening?

Man you really are retarded huh?

>>723377596
Arcade like design is intertwined with a lot of the fun in games. It isn't something you coast through. Steady escalation of challenge and the satisfaction of not only getting through sections of the game, but eventually mastering them is part of the reward. If there is no adversity to triumph over, then it becomes a dull game.

>>723377943
Take your meds

>
REWINDING DOES NOT TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM AN EXPERIENCE

its sad that you actually think this. How do people get on /v/ when they dont have any positive memories with video games?

>>723377836
I actually beat it just fine with rewind and got to see the cool boss moves.
You wasted hours only for millions of people to call you a fucking loser with mental illness.

>>723377982
It's ridiculous; reminds me of the people saying to just follow a guide when they're playing old CRPGs. Discovering and solving things by yourself is like half the fun of all games.

>the point of a game is to see the bosses moves
>what? no they'll never hit me with them, I have time powers.
holy shit LOL

>>723377809
>>723377865
>Smug and superior through deranged comparisons yet again

Like clockwork

>>723377881
It was a pretty good analogy that seems to have gone completely over your head, yes.

>>723378048
I don't think you can say someone else has a mental illness with the way you behave.

>>723362089 (OP)
I just assume everyone used save states if they were available

>>723378094
Dude, playing video games is for losers. I’m cool. Millions agree.

>>723377943
If the game is designed around navigating and managing risk and it revolves around coin flips then you're just handing yourself a win button.

>>723377918
I don't give a fuck, you stupid pussy.
All you faggots are focused on making the same argument:
>I'm superior for liking trash and you are literally inferior if you can't make an argument I like

Fucking kill yourself if your feelings are so hurt.

>>723378094
It's like the kids on the playground who constantly made up new powers so they were invincible and never got hit with anything and then cried when everyone went home and didnt want to play anymore

>>723377998
Take a chill pill. Again, did you force yourself to play through Megaman or not? You don't have to do that. I drop games too.

>>723378154
It's a reasonable assumption, sadly. I will, however, brag to you that I beat the original Ninja Gaiden without using save states, because I'm a cool guy.