Thread 723768771

What would her alignment change be if I just sucker punched her and said I did it because I felt like it.

>>723768771 (OP)
Shit game just like everything bioware has ever made.

just beat this game for the first time and man oh man it was shit. The writing is vomit inducing and contradicts itself constantly. Perhaps 1 is the same I haven't played it since like 2007.
Kreia is obviously Avellones self insert.
I like a lot of the ideas, with a better writer it could be deserving of the hype.
But this whole uh the dark side is a wound but actually its not and dark and light are balance but also its a wound and must be destroyed for balance.
Then there's the whole erm the force is actually bizzaro world christ gone evil and enslaving everyone involved and le epic tricking the dark side users into thinking they have power like MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND

>>723768771 (OP)
Being contrarian to everything isn't a personality

>>723769217
and to add to this, I think I know why /v/ praises it so much. Its a baby game out of the gate. The one thing you'll notice on /v/s approved games is they're all painfully easy or have some mechanic to bypass any difficulty ala God Hands aoe uppercut and kick spam.
The moment you get fear and force lightning the game is just playing itself.

>>723769078
This game wasn't made by Bioware

>>723768771 (OP)
Thank you fortune cookie, to know dick is to choke on it.

>>723769217
Stick to the first game, its very basic and won't confuse you so much.

What does that even mean? To believe in something is to assign it a positive truth value. To betray something true is to declare it false. So by Kreia's logic, to believe in something is to believe its false.

>>723769748
there wasn't anything confusing about the story though. if you think a story like this has the capacity to confuse even an elementary school child then you have done permanent damage to your brain from huffing your own farts.
I'd tell you to read more books but I doubt it's reversible.

>>723769872
t. confusedlet

>>723769930
you're supposed to throw out the bait, not the entire fishing pole and there isn't anything in the handbook about shitting your pants.

>>723769826
She didn't say you had to betray it. She said be willing to betray it. Basically she is saying that when you attach yourself to something, you have to acknowledge that you may way one day hurt that thing. Like you may love your wife, and then break her heart when you cheat on her later. The act of you falling in love means that you hurting the one you love is now in the spectrum of possible outcomes.

>>723768771 (OP)
I believe in fucking the miraluka.

Post Kreia porn already.

>>723769956
confusedlet

>>723770063
but if you cheat you never loved them. This is what we call mile wild puddle deep. It's the kind of shit you'd see on reddit.

>>723769217
You probably wanna stick with Kotor1. Kotor2's themes seem a bit too advanced for your intellect. The game's story is a deconstruction of the standard good vs evil tropes in Star Wars, and treats the Force as it should be treated in the narrative: an overimposing and intrusive eldritch power that influences human affairs, and whose motivations may be malicious in nature. Kreia's entire philosophy is a pretty standard Nietzschean existentialism: a rejection of conventional morality and the grounding force in the universe (God for Nietzsche, the Force for Kreia), in an attempt to empower the individual to create their own meaning and rise above nihilism. She never asks you to do anything but create your own values and enforce them ruthlessly, instead of letting yourself get guided by the nose by the ((Force)). Kotor2 takes a world like Star Wars, with a rich lore but little philosophical depth, and subverts your expectations as a player - in the sense that it explores the themes of the lore and their philosophical weight, as opposed to betraying every storytelling trope for the sake of being different like TLJ.

Also, you're a faggot. I just want to make that clear.

>>723770154
His example is poor but his explanation is sound. Read it again.

>>723770183
As I said it had good ideas, but contradicts its own plot points constantly and is presented terribly.
instead of samefagging about your reddit game you should really stop breathing in your farts, do some light cardio and start reading.
You can't be this retarded.

I still feel robbed we never saw the Exile forcibly sever the True Sith(tm) from the Force and cause them to eventually mutate into the Vong

>>723770326
Give me an example of the game contradicting its own plot points

i have mixed feelings about kotor2. regardless of the piles of dialogue, exposition, and back story, a clear take away is the recurring themes in the game. also the atmosphere, the peragus mining facility is very memorable to me.
the most memorable dialogue in the game (to me) was that line from hk-47 about an echo.

on the whole, as a game, the first game is the clear winner.

>>723770852
The first game is too juvenile and the characters are all extremely annoying.

>>723770326
>>723770463
Notice how this dumbass nigger still hasn't responded. It's always the ones that are most confident about their understanding of the game (despite demonstrating how little they understand of it every time they speak) that stop replying when you ask for receipts. If you're too stupid to understand a work of art, the solution is to claim your stupidity; not to adopt this childish coping mechanism of claiming it's vaguely bad and stupid, without being able to back it up.

>>723770929
i get the critical views of both games, but how the first game unfolds, the planets/locations, the story, and yes the characters... by any supposed objective measure, i don't see how kotor2 (on the whole) tops the first.
the first is very complete, regardless of opinions on characters or story. and yes, i know the gameplay was overhauled in kotor2.
seems to me there's been this new wave of people who rally around the second game just to dump on the first.

>>723771609
The first game is just a beat-for-beat knockoff of the original trilogy though. It doesn't matter how well it's presented, it isn't anything new.
KOTOR 2 has some ups and downs, but it not just being an elaborate string of Star Wars cliches from start to finish makes it much more interesting and memorable.
The improved gameplay really helps a lot as well.

>>723769217
wasn't part of the plot mandated by Bioware? IIRC the Sith Triumvirate was orders from on high

>>723768771 (OP)
How does that make any fucking sense?

>>723770063
>>723770154
it's more like loving your pet means one day you're going to have to put it to sleep

Why did Kreia think so highly of Revan?

>>723772324
To believe in an ideal sometimes means that you need to rebel against what that ideal becomes. Once articulated, ideals tend to become rigid. And sometimes, those ideals morph into the very same system that they once opposed. See the French or Cuban revolutions, the history of Marxist-communism, or the evolution of Christianity (as best illustrated in the Grand Inquisitor passage of Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov).

>>723772435
I think it's because everything he did was measured and controlled. He waged war intelligently and was not blinded by either side of the force. He killed because he had to, and when he turned on the jedi, he spared infrastructure, planets.
Compare his actions to Malak's in the wars.

If the thing you believe in is strong enough, it will endure yours and any betrayal and carry on with or without you

>>723772041
>It doesn't matter how well it's presented, it isn't anything new
i think it does matter how well it's presented, that's why it's praised
i don't recall being reminded of the original trilogy while playing kotor, not saying you're wrong though. both games will continue to get the same old criticisms as long as they're discussed. i just see the *games* for what they are, and kotor2 as a game is very mixed, unlike the first. the locations in the second game can be dreadful, due in part to 2 or 3 being reused. not to mention the endless dialogue and interruptions.

>>723772617
But then it's no longer the ideal that you believed in. So you are not betraying your ideal as much as corruption of it.

did remake what do yall think

https://youtu.be/59u7gRy74Ro

>>723768771 (OP)
Nietzche if he granny

>>723769217
Anything talking about moral greyness instead of Good vs Evil is cringe and for faggots.

>>723772820
damn I can't believe three kotor threads with kreia as the op image have been started since july

>>723768771 (OP)
We're not taking you to Panda Express anymore.

>>723772909
You're getting it now. The subtle distinction in that quote is the one between the ideal in spirit and the ideal in form.

>>723772820
Yeah, but spamming Kreia is merited because she's at least posing a dilemma to the audience and asking them a question; wanting the players to come to their own conclusion.
Compare that to the "WE MUST BE BETTER", which is just mocking the source material, and the source material itself is nothing but shoving a political message down the viewers throat rather than wanting people to build their own beliefs.

>>723773160
We must be better spammers

>>723768771 (OP)
>anally obliterates savescummer crybabies who want their goodboy points for picking the right dialogue each time
hilarious honestly

>>723772617
>>723772909
>>723773137
nta, but I interpreted it slightly differently.
That on top of what you guys said, if you truly believe in something, then you are willing to recognize that your own understanding of it might not be complete; that it might already have flaws. Thus to preserve the ideal behind what you follow, you need to be able to adjust your view of it.

Your describing the willingness to fight against an idea changing over time. I took it to mean that you also need to be willing to let it change for the better if you were previously wrong about it without realizing.

>>723768771 (OP)
You mean be betrayed by it?

If you’re willing to betray your beliefs you lack conviction. Lack of conviction makes you untrustworthy and weak.

>>723772324
>>723772617
>>723773475
I thought it was simply that to betray anything, you first need to believe in it.

If you believe in nothing, you can't betray anything.

the implication is that your convictions are arrived at by logical conclusions via evidence
meaning if new evidence contradicts your conclusions you have to be willing to accept reality

>>723773735
To further expand on this: It also means seeking out that which challenges your belief. Betraying it in the sense that you're putting it in danger. If it is true it will weather the assault.

>mfw full unarmed build
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdI7nwe1Wmg

>>723769429
Because its the most interesting thing to come from the star wars franchise since empire strikes back

>>723770078
Reminder that she looks like Elastigirl under there.

>>723773621
If you're unwilling to chance betraying your beliefs, it means you have no logical system to buttress them, and you operate based on emotion or blind faith like chr*stcucks. The strength of a belief system is in its falsfiability, not its esotericism.

Bros, I just finished watching the Prequels one after the other and I have come to the conclusion that while Episode III is the best of the Prequels, it contains the two absolute worst dialogue exchanges in the six movies.
>You're so beautiful.
>It's only because I'm so in love.
>No it's because I'm so in love with you.
>So love has blinded you?
>Well that's not what I meant.
>But it's probably true.
And
>I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over!
>Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!
>From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!
Both exchanges absolutely btfo of Attack of the Clones' "haunted by the kiss you should have never given me", their only real competition.

>>723775029
The last exchange could at least be excused by Anakin having gone completely off tilt, but yeah all of the romance dialog in SW has always been extremely shit.

>>723768771 (OP)
Sounds incredibly jewish.

>>723769748
I always find it funny that he was at the academy during KoToR 1. How is it again that he didn't try to take over the Sith and beat Malak?

I had no choice...

>>723775690
Dark Side player keeping all Jedi Master alive is such a rare breed of players.

>>723769826
that true belief isn’t blindly loyal. Instead, it implies that when you deeply believe in something (a cause, a person, a principle), you must be willing to challenge it, question it, or even defy it if it strays from its core truth. Belief demands integrity if the thing you believe in becomes corrupted or contradicts its original values, staying loyal without question might mean betraying its essence.

So is the implication with Kreia that gray/neutral is just more dark side?

>>723775029
>From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!

This is actually a great line and I don't care what anyone says

>>723775870
In isolation it's not horrible. In the scene it's stilted and awful. Anakin should have just called Obi-Wan a traitor and said he wasn't interested in his lies.

>>723769217
Aren't you fun at parties

>>723775863
The warmth of the sun without glare, you can feel its light and heat, but there is no harshness to it.

>>723775863
Well, she literally ends up calling herself Darth Traya again while attempting to commit mass murder and deicide

>>723775863
She a sith trying to gaslight you

>>723775863
The implication is that stop seeing things in dark and light and understand why you make your choice. Don't choose that choice because it give you Light points. Understand why and what would be the outcome of that choice. Also revenge.

>>723776232
Yeah but that all apparently leads to the dark side every time. Kreia herself just ends up falling, every student she ever taught ends up falling. Atris collects holochrons containing Kreia's teachings and ends up falling.

>>723776209
Then what was ever the point of doing this long runaround on you instead of just being "Yes, power is good, apprentice."

>>723775863
The implication is that Kreia is Avellone's self insert and he has no idea what he's talking about

GILF pussy

>>723776703
>Then what was ever the point of doing this long runaround on you instead of just being "Yes, power is good, apprentice."
Even palpatine waited before dropping "Power is good" on anakin

>>723777290
If she's his self insert, why is she not constantly drinking?

this uptick in kotor shilling made me realize that the remake is probably ready for preorders

>>723772617
>To believe in an ideal sometimes means that you need to rebel against what that ideal becomes.
0/10 basic foolishness take.
If an ideal isn't ideal in nature and complete, then it isn't ideal as a thing.
If an ideal that isn't ideal becomes something else it is nothing but deviation from an already failed thing.
If an ideal is ideal, and is worthy of consideration within the Truth, and you don't live up to it, or it is failed to realize, it is your fault.
If an ideal is ideal and worthy, and you live up to it but improperly, you risk becoming an accessory to an ideal.
If an ideal is ideal and worthy, and you live up to it, you have no need to believe in it. You simply are.

>>723777290
People who say this don’t understand tabletop rpgs. Avellone views rpgs as the same as like DnD. In DnD, all NPCs are technically self inserts of the DM. Every hobo and innkeeper is inherently colored by how the DM feels about those types of characters and how they should act. There is nothing inherently wrong with that either, nor does it make those characters infallible. It just means that are written by the DM and may have a purpose to represent an idea the DM thought was worth exploring.

Kreia is the result of Avellone wanting to reuse Puzzle Ravel to critique the expanded universe of star wars.

>>723777807
>If an ideal isn't ideal in nature and complete, then it isn't ideal as a thing.
Kantian ideals aren't a thing, and Kant got btfo by Hume.
>If an ideal that isn't ideal becomes something else it is nothing but deviation from an already failed thing.
Ideas evolve, too. And that evolution can imperceptibly change the original intention or philosophy of the idea. Ideals in spirit and ideals in form are two different animals entirely.
>If an ideal is ideal, and is worthy of consideration within the Truth, and you don't live up to it, or it is failed to realize, it is your fault.
What is truth?
>If an ideal is ideal and worthy, and you live up to it but improperly, you risk becoming an accessory to an ideal.
Again, ideals in spirit and in form are two very different things.
>If an ideal is ideal and worthy, and you live up to it, you have no need to believe in it. You simply are.
And to blindly accept ideals without ever conceiving of their alternatives is foolish. For all the bravado of your initial proclamation, I didn't expect the response of an intellectual and philosophical vacuum.

>>723775029
Give us a better dialogue of romance in space scifi movie. Go on, surely you can deliver and this isn't just another 666 billionth attempt to shit talk prequel by clueless parrots.

>>723775998
They were dueling on fucking molten lava not on debate forum. Any prolonged dialogue would break the flow of combat immediately, even a 6 yo knows this.

>>723777887
It's Ravel Puzzlewell you bumbling fool and the whole scenario was approved by the man himself unless you're insinuating Lucas is illiterate

Kotor 2 is actually just replicating ideas presented in NJO'S Traitor, Kreia is just a slightly remixed Vergere.

If you want a Kotor 2 that isn't half on the cutting room floor, just read Traitor.

https://youtu.be/-Qoem317Vfs?si=KvaGNhnz52TRb0uQ

>>723778150
The sand line is infinitely better and it involves the same two characters.

>>723778543
People bitched and moaned about that too. It's ok to pretend to like it but you know it's obvious you're trying too hard

>Help people, you are bad
>Don't help people, you are bad
Bravo, 10/10 writing

>>723779087
There is no comparison, the Episode III exchange is vacant and as cringe as people pretend the sand line is. The sand line is memed out of context but is said in response to Padme reminiscing about her childhood taking trips to the lake and laying on the sand. Anakin responds by talking about how much he dislikes sand, contrasting his childhood as a literal slave with Padme's swanky childhood, without directly stating it. It has substance as a line and is delivered entirely in character.

>>723768771 (OP)
Don't be afraid to continually tell granny nitzche here to fuck off and stick to your convictions.

>>723779391
Influence gained: Kreia

>>723768771 (OP)
Fence sitter midwit THE character.

>>723770183
hey look, a farthuffing convictionless faggot!
I knew there'd be one. I bet you found Kria relatable instead of insufferable too.

>>723778016
>Kantian ideals aren't a thing, and Kant got btfo by Hume.
Any thing can be a thing, domain of ideals has nothing to do with opinions of select mortals.
Ideals of sapients are nothing but ideas, any idea imaginable can be realized in reality, complete with the consequences.
Self-order cybernetics of personal ideals especially so.
>Ideas evolve, too. And that evolution can imperceptibly change the original intention or philosophy of the idea. Ideals in spirit and ideals in form are two different animals entirely.
Anything can evolve or devolve, complete ideals are past such limits. If you approach a limit in perpetuity instead of reaching past you're not reaching any meaningful evolution, because your ideal, or your comprehension of it, or your, or its depth was inferior and unworthy.
>Ideals in spirit and ideals in form are two different animals entirely.
Irrelevant impotence such as this fillters any would-be idealist.
>What is truth?
The one that is The.
>And to blindly accept ideals without ever conceiving of their alternatives is foolish.
One has no need to blindly accept because one already is [understanding]. If you approach any idea from a point of view of "maybe there's another X" instead of "what is this Y" you already have failed.
>For all the bravado of your initial proclamation, I didn't expect the response of an intellectual and philosophical vacuum.
Naturally, because if you actually had expected it, you'd recognize said vacuum within all your posts here, and within numerous other philosophical posts on this site.
If you have to walk, you are yet to reach. If you're yet to reach, you're not reaching.
This classic failure of waxing lyrical and ponderous on ideals is systemic.

>>723779549
Kreia actually has convictions, she just uses roundabout methods. She doesn't like Sith-y Sith.

>>723779549
>"haha you are huff le farts im smart and i totally got it, i just didnt like it!!!"
>>723779559
>uneducated pseud tries his best at creating a philosophical argument

>>723769748
The gameplay is more complicated in the 1st one. The second is very bare bones.

>>723779865
>gameplay is more complicated in the 1st one.
How?

>>723779603
I wonder how Kreia would feel about Palpatine. He masterfully toppled the entire Jedi Order using primarily political methods rather than relying on the Force to get shit done. On the other hand, he's dogmatic as fuck. He does Sith things because they are Sith things to do and he loves that shit.

>>723780030
She did foresee that far in the end, didn't she?
She would be impressed but disgusted, especially with some of his projects.

>kreia gives advice
>"i'll consider what you've said"
>"that's all i ask"
>influence gained: kreia
>don't do what she says
It's that easy

>>723780881
>>don't do what she says
>"Do you take me for a fool, contrarian?"
>Influence lost: Kreia

>>723768771 (OP)
ᴹᵃˡᵃᶜʰᵒʳ

>>723781159
>go out of your way to make Bao-Dur a Jedi, bigger pain in the ass than any other companion
>he just fucks off and dies at the climax of the game

>>723781215
>vote for trump on onderon
>locked into evil ending
Fuck this game

>>723781478
>visas is a proud MOGA and actively gets in debates about how great onderon blumpf is and how she would vote for him.
Best girl confirmed.

>>723779202
makes sense tho when u think about it

Revan understood snacks.

>>723782403
How so? Explain yourself.

>>723782732
i choose to not explain it to u

>>723781478
It gives you a lot of chances to change your mind before leaving Onderon 1, and the game makes it pretty clear Kavar is on the queen's side
>yeah I helped the Sith take over the planet and killed all the Queen's guards and the Queen herself
>but I'm not here to fight you, I just want to know why you cast me out of the order lmao

>>723769748
There's nothing wrong with a simple villain

>>723779202
The point of the scene is "Why do you do what you do?", not just a straight morality check.
>then why give the choice in the first place
Roleplaying for characters that wouldn't give the credits, but still leads into the conversation.

>>723773060
you have an iq of under 110

>>723783354
you play videogames, no smart person does that, regardless of any type of score

>>723769217
kreia`d

>>723782957
Why is a "Jedi" inserting himself into the political affairs of a random planet?
He'll fight in an inconsequential Kamala vs Trump scuffle but he won't fight the mandalorians when they're raping entire planets?

>>723783448
Its her turn, chud.
>>723781478
I think there is a mod that lets you spare Kavar while siding with Blumpft. However, that mod is unvoiced so you would have to run the lines through an AI to fix that.

>>723783448
>Why is a "Jedi" inserting himself into the political affairs of a random planet?
He suspected Valku was in contact with a Sith and was trying to draw him out

>>723768771 (OP)
le ebin centrist contrarian character, rick and morty before rick and morty haha wubbalubbadubdub hey exile, h-hey exile I lost my force powers and now I totally hate the force, exile! It’s nihilist power fantasy, exile! I’m definitely not bullshitting you and betraying you later on! I turned myself into a fence sitter, exile! I’m fence sitter granny!

She's a sith lord
Don't trust anything she says

>>723783917
She's neither a grey Jedi nor a fencesitter. She doesn't care if you're a moustache-twirling villain or a saint. All she cares about is that you aren't an impulsive retard.

>>723783893
>>723784039
What's wrong with being a Sith? Remember, just saying "they're evil" isn't an argument.

>>723784039
a sith LORD!?

>>723784039
Sith lords are our speciality.

>>723768771 (OP)
>I suffered... INDIGNITIES!
Was it rape?

>>723784238
Allegedly not. Chris Avellone successfully sued his accusers for defamation.

>>723768771 (OP)
Kreia is such a fucking pseud. KOTOR 1 > KOTOR 2.

>>723768771 (OP)
TRVKE

>>723768771 (OP)
Best VA of all time, I'll die on this hill

>>723768771 (OP)
Her lips... are for sucking dick.

>>723784185
You need to watch STAR WARS Episodes 1 through 6.

>>723784185
>what's 1 + 1 AND DON'T SAY TWO
Anyway
>be Jedi
>fellow Jedi are your allies and you can rely on them not to stab you while you sleep
>be Sith
>Jedi want to slay you because you're evil
>Sith want to slay you because you're a threat to them

>>723784238
>>723784271
fucking lmao

>>723784389
also sturdy as fuck, I think she's outlived both Canderous and Atton so far

>>723782969
True, but ever since that old villain tier list was posted around here, /v/ has called every villain shit unless they're Ozymandias tier

>>723784489
I only look up Kreia rule 34 for the dialogue

>>723776703
>Then what was ever the point of doing this long runaround on you instead of just being "Yes, power is good, apprentice."
it's like redpilling on JQ
You can't just walk up to somebody and randomly tell them about the long nose tribe. They would never listen.
You gradually show them statistics, "fellow white people" quotes, reveal talmudic knowledge etc. to make them get the epiphany on their own volition

>>723768771 (OP)
>>To believe in something is to be willing to betray it.
That's retarded. To believe in something is to be willing to betray EVERYTHING ELSE FOR IT.

>>723784674
>Canderous' VA is dead
Fuck, I knew about Atton's one, but I didn't know Canderous was dead too.
I did a playthrough in Nicky Katt's honour when he died.

>>723784646
¡Díos Mio! ¡La creatura espacial!

y'all niggas better not let me catch you believing in EXTREMES

I sometimes use the kreia beggar scene as a way to explain schrodinger's cat to my students

>>723784949
I have over 130IQ and played both KotORs while you were still learning how to walk. Kreia is a retard and so are (you)
>but muh Nietzsche
Try Kierkegaard and then come back to me with what you find, small time.

honestly, doing a diehard DS playthrough just to throw Kreia's entire philosophy straight into her face is a lot of fun

>>723770183
>wowee i want to fight against established fact just because i huff my own farts
>oh no i got screwed over by the force and its machinations in the end how could this happen to me
like Nietzsche, it's a fight against a natural force. if you want to act high and mighty and tear down the 'simpletons' that operate within the framework you hate, you better be successful in accomplishing your goals. otherwise you just come off as a bitter curmudgeon REEEing about the way things are.
p.s. just because your shit is deconstructive doesn't mean it's inherently good.

>>723780259
>look up what he's up to now
>he got arrested for CSEM
>there's more dirt on him too
Jesus Christ

>>723768771 (OP)
That's retarded, shut up Kreia.

>>723785779
He probably just had a lot of loli on his computer and lived in a country where it was treated as real under the law. Happens all the time.

What would be the parallels of Kreia's philosophy in the real world anons? Some offshoot of Machiavellism perhaps? Although that's what the Sith are (just cranked up to 11), yet Kreia is not exactly a traditional Sith. Is there a distinct philosophy about it?

>>723786020
>don't be a dogmatic, impulsive retard. Know what you're doing, why you're doing it, and what effect it has on the world around you.
That's it, that's her philosophy. She explains it quite neatly on Nar Shaddaa. Literally just critical thinking skills, which are generally lacking in the Star Wars galaxy.

BREAKFAST IS A LIE

I believe in Jesus Christ and i would never betray my Lord and King.

>>723786259
Ok brownoid

>>723786335
>replying to obvious bait

>>723774345
All unarmed takes is choosing not to build an op ligthsaber with special crystals. I actually made my brother rage when I told him his unarmed would be doing more damage than his weapon.

>>723775029
I argue that 3's plot progression is actually solid as fuck. Palps forces the council to give anakin a seat after pumping him up with how great he is. council only capitulates as far as politics forces them, denying anakin the master title because he is not ready for it. That makes anakin rightly miffed enough that palps is able to exploit him.

>>723786139
True, but she also doesn't shy away from manipulating others to do your work and considers it smart, while at the same time considering it a weakness if you rely on others' help to achieve things or even give it yourself. Where does her philosophy draw the line?
Manipulating = good and genuine help = bad?

>>723786580
She doesn't "rely" on help, though, she has her own strength to the point she can go toe to toe with the Exile at his strongest. She manipulates others into hanging around the Exile as a safety net because he needs to get stronger and Kreia's not willing to take any chances on losing him since she wants Sion and Nihilus dead.

>>723779202
>Acquire light side points because I am doing light side run!
Bad
>acquire dark side points because I am doing darkside run!
bad
>roleplay a fucking character
good

>>723786759
>acquire dark side points because I am doing darkside run!

>>723769954
Lmfao accurate af

>>723786139
This mindset is retarded because it supposes that everyone serving their ideology with conviction only ever did so because they are sheep and no one actually was big brained as much as her to do a big think on the subject until now.

>>723787283
Literally every jedi you run across IS a dogmatic retard sheep.

>>723787407
And you presume they didn't "think about it hard enough" to actively choose to be so?

>>723787702
They dedicated their whole lives to their dogma and are the shittiest people in the whole galaxy. Even Sion is more sympathetic than they are.

AYO FUCK FORCE CHUDS

>>723770463
It was literally in my first post you dumb niggerfaggot now samefag harder >>723771120

>>723787283
>it supposes that everyone serving their ideology with conviction only ever did so because they are sheep and no one actually was big brained as much as her to do a big think on the subject until now.
You have literally described every Atheist who has ever lived.

>give hobo money
YOU RETARD YOU WEAK AND NOW HE WEAK
>Don't give hobo money
YOU RETARD YOU ARE A BIG MEANY WEENIE AND YOURE SENDING WAVES CAUSING INJUSTICES AND CURELTIES FFS NOW CORY MATTHEWS IS GONNA BE RAPED BY MR FEENY

DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK

>>723774604
HOT

>>723775863
Shes about "dont be fucking retarded and im still gonna try to fuck you over to keep you on your toes."

>>723769748
>starts the game with a genocide
>sends assassins after you
>commits another genocide
>kidnaps your girlfriend and tortures her plus implied rape
>forces you to fight your own girlfriend
>wants to lock you in a "terrible existence between life and death" to leech off your power
Malak was hardcore and his presence was felt throughout the game, Obsidians Sith are just over dramatic edgelords.

>>723787784
Yes, but its OK to be shitty according to kreia as long as you think hard about it first and take responsibility for it, no? Its not impossible for a dogmatic individual to "Know what you're doing, why you're doing it, and what effect it has on the world around you."
In fact, one could call kreia dogmatic to her own goals (she wouldn't be a good villain otherwise), its just that her dogma isn't one of the two major dogmas that existed before she was born. Nothing she says supposes that there can't be others with her same mindset (think for yourself, think of the outcome of your actions), but within those two other dogmas.
Especially since what she did served absolutely no purpose in the long run. It amounts to "I'm better than those SHEEP, but no I can't accomplish my goals, teehee"

>>723789093
>Blow up this entire world even though we're looking for a single person!!!
>Uh, why?
>Just do what I say I'm EVIL!!!
And then he failed to rise above that level for the entire game

>>723782969
>>723784684
Bad cartoon writing doesn't make a simple villain. Bottom guy is a simple villain also, you midwits.

grey force users can exist, people who harp on about "grey jedi" just give the idea a bad name

>>723789492
PICK A SIDE, LOSER

i dreamt of malachor
i remember the ships

>>723789557
>pick a side
what if i've played for both teams and decide they both suck ass?

>>723769217
>The writing is vomit inducing and contradicts itself constantly
It's remarkably consistent. Whether it induces vomiting in you or not is irrelevant, but it never contradicts itself.
>Kreia is obviously Avellones self insert.
Actually, she's an author mouthpiece, which is different.
>the dark side is a wound but actually its not and dark and light are balance but also its a wound and must be destroyed for balance
Doesn't appear in the game.
>the force is actually bizzaro world christ gone evil and enslaving everyone involved and le epic tricking the dark side users into thinking they have power
Doesn't appear in the game.
>MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND
It's okay, champ. You'll be 14 in no time, try replaying the game again then.

>>723789946
You can suck ass by yourself, then

force is gay
for a force user to work in a story everyone else around get a massive nerf
and when a story is not about force user they get raper in the ass
one fucking amateur sniper can cut through 95% of these faggots

>>723790502
Thanks for the input, Atton.

>>723787407
Not quite. Zez Kai Ell was the only member of the council who had the maturity to ask if the teachings of the Jedi Order were flawed. He might have had a true moment of understanding but the backed away from the truth when Vrook and Kavar doubled down on their simplistic jedi philosophy

>Mass Effect thread is saying that their series is better than KoTOR
Is this true?

>>723790731
>bullied into obedience by a more tenured mentor and a physically stronger peer who still has hair while you're bald

>>723790731
Vrook is a retard in general, I think Kavar just saw what the Exile did to a literal army and shit himself.

>>723789134
The problem with the Jedi is that they substitute a lot of critical thinking with "the ways of the Force". By their own admission the order has barely changed for hundreds of years and in that time they (and the Galaxy) repeatedly suffered from failed Jedi. In some cases sith and fallen Jedi came to the temple, held a speech and then left with dozens or hundreds of Jedi following them.
Also stuff like Revan and Mando wars. The jedi order fucks up and suffers repeatedly but nobody would even consider that some of their jedi teachings could possibly be wrong or even imperfect. Vrook is the best example of their narrow minded view.
>it's the children who are wrong
Since there is no actual introspection, no actual analysis of the Jedi and their place in the Galaxy, they fail Kreia's test. Muh will of muh force is no excuse

>>723791270
Kotor 2>ME1>Kotor 1>ME2
Not evening rating 3

>>723791270
>Mass Effect > KOTOR
>Mass Effect 2 < KOTOR 2
>Mass Effect 3 = KOTOR < KOTOR 2
>Andromeda < KOTOR < KOTOR 2
Seems not to be, by virtue of 3 and Andromeda dropping the ball so hard.

>>723791404
Kavar is a man of heroic and direct action. He's not stupid but he also isn't one to ask deep questions or do any philosophising. He probably just trusted people like Vrook and got fucked as a result.

>>723787804
aww the slave race thinks its people again

>>723791456
>>723789134
Kreia argues against action and inaction born of ideology in favor of considering the consequences of your behavior beforehand. That's separate from her view of the Force but it's also connected to it.
It's similar to how surrogate activities arise in place of the power process in technological society.
In Star Wars, the power process is impeded by surrogate destiny in a society where the Force exists.

>>723790731
I never listened to Zez because his voice made him sound dumb
Kavar had chad hot sports teacher vibes. Shame that Kreia killed him

>>723791759
Enslaving wookies always seemed kinda stupid. I mean beyond fighting as gladiators, wtf can a wookie do that a droid can't do cheaper without the risk of people having their arms ripped off?

>>723791732
As heroic and direct as he may be, the Exile almost singlehandedly carving his way through an entire army is not normal for a Jedi. Can you imagine what it must have been like for him in the palace, listening to the radio chatter? He couldn't even fight his way out, despite being a Jedi master, and here comes the Exile, blasting his way inside in minutes. All that did was make the Exile even stronger.

>>723791909
What's the closest company to czerka in real life? Amazon?

>>723769314
It is too!

>>723791909
i assume its just to keep them docile while their planet is harvested for lumber

>>723791909
Life is cheaper than a droid.

>>723769314
Except for every /v/ poster

>>723791976
If that's the case then why are they replacing workers at my mcdonalds with robots

>>723791456
Wouldn't the conclusion then be to start a new order founded on those principles of introspection, rather than attempting to kill the force entirely? Kreia seems to blame the force for the Jedi being retarded instead of recognizing that the universe is going to be full of sheep/dogmatic individuals. She went even more full retard than the jedi.

>>723792032
Because maccas employees get paid, a slave does not.

>>723785117
>I have over 130IQ
>t. 130.1IQ

>>723792076
>Wouldn't the conclusion then be to start a new order founded on those principles of introspection, rather than attempting to kill the force entirely?
That's literally her plan and she succeeds through your companions doing this for her
The killing the force was just a psyop to get you to kill her and destroy Malachor

>>723792274
So she had to be over the top dramatic about it instead of simply opening a school because? She's a silly woman who wants drama or what?

>>723792076
>>723792274
>what if Ted Kaczynski but hot space granny

>>723792076
Because none of it would matter in the long run because of how the force affects living things to enforce its will. Only the exile was proven to be capable of denying the force completely and making real choices, and can spread that through the influence the exile has on other people through the bonds he forms with them. It wouldn't outlive the exile for very long, and the force would end up re-exerting itself, as we know it did when the OT and PT came along.

>>723775029
It's because Lucas was trying to leaning on old romance movies like gone with the wind and doctor zhivago, since those type of movies are a huge influence on him, of course it's gonna sound a bit corny/cheese when seen on a modern lense

>>723791925
Yeah that is a real doozy but don't forget. Even if you decide to support him and the queen on Onderon he still follows Vrook in condemning you on Dantooine. Even if it turns out you are 3 times as heroic as Kavar himself, he will still decide to cripple you because of retarded jedi dogma. Kavar is kinda cool as a character but he can also get fucked by a Boma beast.

>>723792540
She has no rizz and knows it. She's also old af and an ex-sith. Easier to let gen z fix her mistakes and start fresh

>>723792661
What you choose to do on Onderon doesn't matter, Kavar's issue is that he knows you're only going to get more powerful by killing huge numbers of people. You're pretty much an unstoppable superhuman killing machine even at that point, he's thinking of nipping the problem in the bud because there sure as shit isn't any chance of them doing it later. The exile might be good NOW, but that doesn't mean there's no chance of a fall happening and the exile becoming the next Nihilus consuming every living thing on a planet with his mere presence.

>>723768771 (OP)
she was right about everything

>>723791940
sure

>>723768771 (OP)
No words ever hurt me as deeply as when she told me I failed her completely and utterly.

>>723793103
I don't see this thing being faster than drivers, I suppose if you wanted to reduce traffic it could be good, but the range is terrible and it's very dependent on the weather.

>>723792859
Man. I can see where she's coming from but I still think she's retarded, and can't play the game without being a complete asshole to her on principle.
Really, though, I just wish the game hadn't been rushed. Even with the community mods it feels so incomplete.

>>723792590
>Only the exile was proven to be capable of denying the force completely and making real choices
Cutting people off permanently from the Force is a Lightside power and is what the Council was going to do to the Exile.

>>723793754
Kreia explains that such a cutting off is never really complete, it was only that way for the exile and by his own decision

Hanharr>Mira

>>723793831
What the Exile did was different. Actually being cut off by others is permanent because it's described as using the Force itself to put a barrier around a person's soul. It was done to Ulic Quel-Droma at the end of the Sith War and while it removed the Dark Side influence from him completely he never felt whole again, spending what was left of his life trying to regain his connection to the Force. The Exile never really lost the connection and he spends the whole game regaining it just fine.

>>723792870
He applies standard Jedi thinking to nonstandard problems. The Exile is a scary appearance but at the same time he is the only person who could defeat Nihilus, the very entity that fucked the Order and forced them all into exile.
So not only did the Jedi order fuck up the Mandalorian Wars, they also got their asses dilated afterwards the Sith Lords. From this absolute abyss of power and understanding they declare the Exile a monster and had they succeeded, they'd have doomed the entire Galaxy.
Heroic motivations mean nothing. Their own idiocy and shortcomings brought them and the Galaxy to the brink of ruin but all the could to was yet again demonise and condemn anything that was not of their Jedi Order, anything they couldn't understand.

>>723794215
No, the exile was cut off completely, bar for the exile's capability to form force bonds. It is literally explained to you that the exile can only feel the force again because of the force bond with Kreia.

>>723768771 (OP)
>if you kill your enemies, they win

>>723794551
>she kills her enemies
>proceeds to lose afterwards
I mean it checks out.

>>723775852
betraying and challenging/questioning are different things

>>723794330
>cut off completely
>except for a Force ability

>>723794683
Depends on the context. In many religions questioning the dogma is a sign of heresy.
Kreia wants you to have enough doubts about your ideology so that you *can betray it, should it become necessary.

>>723795015
It's not something the exile could actively use until his encounter with Kreia and both of them being near death.

>>723795108
But it's still A connection to the Force. A wound is inherently a hole, a thing that allows things to pass in and out. It took something drastic for Exile to get over the damage but, like Nihilus, the connection was always there.

>>723775863
she was a different kind of sith, she wanted to get rid of the force, she didnt care about the more normal sith stuff like more power or eternal life

>>723795519
You have no concept of a battering ram breaking through a wall.

>>723793103
>Carrier has arrived!

>>723775863
It's not implied. It's something the player must realize himself. She is a sith lord of deception.

>>723768771 (OP)
>"You have to be morally grey bro, both sides are wrong"
>You have to be a Light or Dark extremist to class change
Wut, I dun get it

>>723768771 (OP)
SEX WITH KREIA

>>723790307
The true tragedy is that he's not 14 or even less. If that's not bait, which it likely is, he's around 25-30. Earlier I'd pity him for failing to realise how much of a midwit he is but after seeing the last thread that talked about disability he's more likely an overachiever, statistically.

>>723800572
Young or old Kreia though?

>>723768771 (OP)
I believe in Santa Claus so that means I'm willing to betray him? Betray the man who gives me free stuff? Doesn't make any sense.

>>723802909
ok but what if he stops giving you free stuff?

>>723775739
If you actually think about it it is the only right choice for a DS Exile.

>>723769217
Kreia is a bad person. The story makes perfect sense if you don't mistakenly regard her as a profound truth-teller.

>>723786759
Neither is good or bad. That's the point many miss.

>>723780030
>On the other hand, he's dogmatic as fuck. He does Sith things because they are Sith things to do and he loves that shit.
He has seen way too many examples of not following the rules leading to their kind underachieving by a huge margin. He even became one of those examples.

>>723803438
Leave them alive so they can do what, exactly?

>>723768771 (OP)
that's the most retarded statement I've ever read

>>723786139
>which are generally lacking in the Star Wars galaxy
IRL too. In these threads even.

>>723789134
>but its OK to be shitty according to kreia
Define "be shitty".
>Its not impossible for a dogmatic individual to "Know what you're doing, why you're doing it, and what effect it has on the world around you."
Are you Jewish?

>>723804015
suffer

>>723804503
Vrook is too pig-headed for that.

>>723769954
Why did you take a picture of your monitor?

>>723804560
Oh, for him I have something else planned.
I will show him true pain. I'll personally rebuild the galaxy and establish a prosperous society where all are happy through whatever policies he doesn't like. Then, I will leave him on a retirement resort planet to enjoy sunshine and cocktails afforded to him by that which he disagrees with until he does of old age.

>>723792076
That's what she settled for. Doubt it was a backup plan but it worked well enough.

>>723792274
No, she only settled for that because she had empirical evidence that remarkable Force sensitives can make their own path and drag others, not as capable of asserting their will, alongside.>>723792274

>>723793273
Bypassing traffic can potentially make it faster. Cost is definitely a factor but such things tend to eventually improve as engineering solutions emerge. Might not happen so we'll see.

>>723805748
It's a blimp, it'll never be fast outside of beating a traffic jam.

>>723794330
You're mixing up two events. Exile shut off his/her connection willingly at Malachor V, and apparently that was not quite thorough, but what the remains of the Council were planning to do is what that anon mentioned.

>>723804015
As the other anon said, to suffer, to see the errors of their ways in such depth and clarity that it will be utterly agonising. Remember that it's from a DS Exile's point of view, doesn't have to be the truth.
Alternatively, to see their all hopes and dreams crumble before them, to see those they have arrogantly chastised return triumphantly and upend their decrepit dogma, to show them that the time of their philosophy is truly at end. DS can come in some varieties.

>>723789134
>>723804464
Also in retrospect that looks more accusatory than actually inquisitive. I'm referring to their elders, who have generally lead difficult lives among other nations (and made lives of those nations difficult to survive, and to enjoy what ancient desert tales told them they're allowed to do with allegedly clear conscience), creating a psychologically and culturally distorting environment for the modern day Jews to grow and mature in. Which leads to something people long ago have succinctly formulated as "nigra in candida vertere". It even got a modern coat of paint called "dark enlightenment".

>>723803438
>"Do you feel any relief from killing all the Jedi?"
>Only put negative response options so that you can stand on your soapbox and finger wag at the player while you jerk yourself off
Bravo, Chris Avellone

>>723804560
Quite to the contrary, he is full of miserable anguish in the fight so it must be simmering in him if he is allowed to reconvene with the others too. He knows he's in the wrong, deep down. He's too stubborn to go even consider backing down until he exhausts all imaginable options which is why he's so eager to try and drive the final nail in the "Exile problem". He is perhaps the only one of them who completely deserves what happens to them at the end.

>>723805867
If a "traffic jam" has an effective square area of several hundred kilometres (only so many roads of so much width) the blimp has already won, today.

>>723806812
Again with missing the point. Bait?

>>723806997
Amazon could spend its own money on a pricey solution to the traffic problem, or it could lobby the government to spend YOUR money to solve the traffic problem with just. one. more. lane.

>>723807071
No shit.

>>723806862
Yeah he absolutely is miserable, keeping him alive for longer would increase it but he would also cause a bunch of trouble unless you cripple him severely.
Beyond that, yeah he does deserve the death Kreia bestows upon him. In contrast Zez Kal El deserved it the least since he was the most willing to actually consider that the Jedi code isn't the pinnacle of perfection. But he still bowed to peer pressure, which is a shame because the conversations you can have with him are some of the most interesting ones in the game.

>>723807204
>In contrast Zez Kal El deserved it the least
Yes, this always makes me unhappy. His entire handling does. Vash was dealt a shitty hand as well.

wouldn't it be smarter for a theoretical DS play to simply allow the three jedi to cower in hiding for the rest of their lives?

>>723781159
>>723781215
>loses intelligence points after becoming a jedi
Kreia WAS right

>>723807446
>Vash
Wasn't she cut because of budget constraints? Doe make me wonder what she would have been like. Maybe one day I can feed AI the non retarded parts of Avellone (and co's) writing to explore stuff like that.

>>723807526
DS means you are literally fuelled by negative emotions, only people like Palpatine can actually supress it. It' also not a bad idea to travel all over the place since you're being hunted by Sith assassins.

>>723807779
what about hiring civilians to gangstalk hiding jedi masters?

Bitch, what the fuck are you even saying?

>>723807878
Anon, are you retarded? These are incredibly skilled Masters of various arts who are hiding from Sith assassins and their Master. Normal civvies cannot find these people, cannot recognize a force user if they find him and couldn't keep following them either. They'd be discovered immediately, they couldn't even get around someone like Mira.

>>723769078
It's not a bioware game though?

>>723808205
It's a total conversion mod for a Bioware game.

>>723807779
>Wasn't she cut because of budget constraints?
Yes, but even if she got proper development her being where she is would've meant she was doomed to a tragic fate. Perhaps worse than death.

>only people like Palpatine can actually supress it.
Good thing Exile is exceptional then. Well capable of showing a fairly broad range of DS.

>>723808149
well what's the best way to make a jedi miserable and paranoid constantly, then?

>>723808516
fuck his padawan

>>723808516
A few things come to mind...

>>723808604
None of the masters had one. Even Mira wasn't Zez Kal Ell's padawan.

>>723803952
Palpatine's downfall has nothing to do with him training a bunch of extra dark force users and everything with his brutal exploitation of most of the settled galaxy.

>>723806812
That moment bothered me as a kid.

>>723809110
Referring to him killing his master before actually learning everything the older Sith knew.

>>723809425
ah, ok then

>>723768771 (OP)
>To soiface at something is to be willing to cringe at it.

>>723809425
Palpatine was going about his merry business when the Dark Side chimed in with the ol "Dewit"
You can't not do it when someone tells you to do it. Episode III taught us this.

>>723809425
I don't think Palpatine would've gotten another chance to actually kill Damask, at least not without risking his life. Plagueus was the one person who was just a strong in the force as Palpatine, not to mention Palpatine also wanted all of Damask Holdings as well when he ascended as Emperor. The Dark Side itself gave him the impetus to attack Plagueus and had he refused it at the time, he would have been punished for it.

>>723810379
Hego Damask was almost btfo by a bunch of bankers. He was on high alert since then but surely would have grown complacent again eventually, as Sith who aren't afraid of their apprentices are destined to do.

>>723769217
They hated him because he told them the truth.

Seriously, though, you're correct because the game is a muddled, confused, and utterly incomplete mess with a few genuinely great scenes and things to say about Star Wars scattered here and there. Anons just love to close their eyes and hallucinate a coherent game linking those scenes together and will seethe at you for disrupting that vision.

>>723810246
Fair.

>>723810516
That's the thing, it wasn't just some rival bankers, the Dark Side itself lend them a hand because it wanted to test and humble Plagueus, he says as much later. Beyond that, Damask only really let his guard down at their moment of ultimate triumph, probably the first time he actually got properly drunk since he was found by Tenebrous. Never again would such a moment appear so never again would Plagueus be so weak and defenceless. He would also know better and only feed Palpatine the extending life technique piecemeal over the course of decades.
Combine that with the fact that the Dark Side would've punished Palpatine for his hesitation and it's clear that there was no other way.

>>723811063
I think it's very sad to think about that every time Plagueis hit Palpatine with the
>Sheev my son, we are the final Sith. Together we will rule the galaxy for eternity!
Palpatine was secretly telling himself
>fuck you you Muun piece of shit I can't wait to kill you they don't know I'm the most Sith Sith to ever Sith
No friendship amongst baddies :(

>>723770183
Truth nuke.

>>723811457
No friendships between baddies is the truth. One which Palpatine himself forgot until he fell into the reactor core.

How tight is she?

>>723812146
He didn't expect friendship. He expected obedience from a crippled and as he thought thoroughly corrupted tool.

>>723812146
It's quite clear (at least in expanded material) that Palpy held no such fondness for Vader.

>>723812146
Shivvy never forgot, he just underestimated Vader, thought he was completely whipped into servitude
Reminder the suit is designed to actively nerf Vader and he still got BTFO

>>723812264
Damask died because his student was more corrupted than him.
Palpatine died because his student wasn't corrupt enough.

>>723812390
>>723812583
I know, it was mostly a shitpost.

>>723815572
>Erm, ACKtually...

>>723816018
>wears a cowboy hat
>fucks dogs
>ruins Star Wars
Is there anything Fagloni can't do?

>>723816018
People give Filoni too much flack for stuff he didn't have a decision on, ultimately Lucas approved the whole mind chip for the clones, just because Filoni went to make dumber decisions on his own doesn't mean he should be seen as the arbiter for all stupid SW lore.

>>723816815
I'm not saying Filoni killed Star Wars or anything, but, you know, it IS a little suspicious that he's been at the scene of the crime for every awful decision since The Clone Wars released...

>>723816956
Every one of those decisions on Clone Wars pre season 5 was Lucas approved, stop trying to retroactively justify your existing hatred.

>>723815572
By Marka Ragnos do I hate the fact that this monologue is shakesperean compared to the new stuff.

>>723817261
Filoni is a gigantic fucking faggot and Lucas is a senile old faggot.

>>723817261
Filoni clearly held a gun to Lucas' head and said "I'm the boss now." He needs to be brought to justice for raping Star Wars, faggot.

>>723817490
>Grima Filoni and George Lucas (2008)

>>723785779
Took kreia's advice way too literally

>>723768771 (OP)
I wish they'd make a movie where she's a prominent character, I like her.

>>723802781
Hot

>>723818242
She works or worked in theatre, anon. Maybe you can find some recordings.

>>723818242
Wasn’t she in zardoz?

>>723768771 (OP)
fuck does this even mean

>>723818631
yeah.
her character really isn't very dissimilar to Kreia in terms of personality and tone