Thread 723916782

>"... but space is inherently boring. It’s literally described as nothingness. So moving throughout that isn’t where the excitement is, in my opinion."

the opinions of the people that decided to make a space game. explains a lot actually

>>723916782 (OP)
he means that space is full of a lot of nothing, which it is. players dont actually want to travel through space unless you severely truncate the experience, its not like driving a car in an open world game from one mission to the next
the text actually says this
>As for why Starfield didn’t latch on as well as other games, Nesmith explained he “leans towards procedural generation” as the big problem instead of other complaints like the lack of real-time space travel.
>“I’m an enormous space fan, I’m an amateur astronomer, I’m up on all that stuff, a lot of the work I did on Starfield was on the astronomical data,” he explained, “but space is inherently boring. It’s literally described as nothingness. So moving throughout that isn’t where the excitement is, in my opinion.
>“But when the planets start to feel very samey and you don’t start to feel the excitement on the planets, that’s to me where it falls apart. I was also disappointed when, pretty much, the only serious enemy you fought were people… there’s lots of cool alien creatures, but they’re like the wolves in Skyrim. They’re just there, they don’t contribute, you don’t have the variety of serious opponents that are story generators.”
and he's right in that people wouldnt be focusing so much on space travel if they just had good land content, which was lacking

Well half of gameplay time in open world games IS moving around the empty barely finished map between cool points of interest
So if that traversal part is super boring it will lead to a super boring game Like 99% of open world slop

>>723916782 (OP)
space has things that would at least be interesting to observe
you don't get megahurricanes, black holes, or diamond rain in starfield, just a prefab full of ethnically diverse human pirates

>>723916782 (OP)
>... but post-apocalypse is inherently boring. It's literally described as completely destroyed rubble.
>... but a cold mountainous region is inherently boring. It's literally described as being being fully covered in snow.
They just lack imagination. It's not only evident in Starfield, but also Fallout and Skyrim.

>>723917195
>its not like driving a car in an open world game from one mission to the next
Now do this without truncating it and removing most traffic.
>Sit in a virtual traffic jam for 2 hours to get to the next mission
>Drive for 8 hours through an empty desert to get to the next town

>>723916782 (OP)
Cosmic horror is interesting. Giant alien eyeballs that can blow up spaceships. That's scary.

>>723918643
Alien subterfuge in Stellaris is interesting
Scanning planets in No Man's Sky is interesting

Starfield is... not interesting

>be dev on Starfield
>"Damn, this game sucks ass. Where's the fun? Where's the sense of adventure?"
And that guy was proven right.

>let's make a scifi setting in space
>its base on nasa-punk
>it's only 200 years later
>there's no intelligent alien races
>its also an extremely poorly thought out and bland setting lore and aesthetics wise

>>723916782 (OP)
Elder scrolls and nu fallout can also be described as nothingness.

>>723917195
So how did games like x4 foundations, eve online, or homeworld make space seem fun then?

>>723916782 (OP)
Space is as boring as you make it. Bethesda decided to make a boring version of space, that's all.

I just want to explore strange new worlds with cool aliens n shit

>>723919441
And Knights of the Old Republic
And Phantasy Star
And...
(10 hours later)

where do i sign up for the discord where we discuss HRT and also hate on Starfield for two entire fucking years like we aren't obsessed lol

Mass Effect 2 is Kino.

>>723919441
None of these are fun, you're just profoundly autistic. Being a space trucker will never, ever be entertaining to humans who aren't fundamentally failures as specimens of a social species.

>>723919875
>as specimens of a social species
Found the cro-magnon

To make space games interesting you have to put in clouds and nebulae and shit. The coolest parts of freelancer were flying though the cloudy bits finding secret jumpgates and shit. The best space part of Starfiled is flying through the storm to the Lagcy ship

>>723919875
>as specimens of a social species.
Found the cro-magnon

>>723920020
Did anyone tell them that people love No Man's Sky because it has no loading screens?

Nobody said anything?

They probably said "You'll buy it anyway"

>>723919630

Starfield hate will continue for 100 years and it deserves all of it

>Space is boring
It is if you can't write and intentionally make it boring, sure

>>723917195
Ocean is boring too but pirate games don't cut sailing out.

You're supposed to add supernatural elements to make space interesting. Taking the legends associated with seafaring and putting them in space.

>>723920243
he means the literal act of moving throughout space realistically is boring, which it is. what he's trying to get at is that full playable planet to planet space travel didnt make or break starfield, but that they failed where they usually succeed, in engaging ground-level handcrafted content

>>723917195
If only someone has solved this problem 20 years ago

>>723920681
pressing W in GTA is so much more engaging right?

>>723920681
How is that different than anything else. Driving through a city is mind numbingly boring but driving games have always been popular. Flying a plane is boring. Sailing on the ocean is boring. Every form of travel has montomony to it that's why it's up the creators to be fucking creative, not be a complete slave to realism, and make the activity fun even if you have exaggerate a little. Space has infinite potential to be engaging; there's untold number of science fiction shows that prove it. Starfield being boring isn't a problem with space it's a problem with Bethesda.

>>723921105
A better way to put it: games set on earth have only earth as a canvas
Games set in space have every possible kind of planet as a canvas, plus asteroids, space stations, Dyson spheres, literally anything you can dream up. The sky isnt even the limit here.

>>723919441
Not him but

X4 and Eve are only fun to INCREDIBLY niche audiences. Most people find them boring AF. Homeworld doesn't even let you fly around space normally. Its an RTS set in small mission areas with all the large scale space travel done via cutscenes.

>>723920349
>>723921105
>>723920992
>>723921284
space is orders of magnitude larger than ocean travel but i do agree that the game should have had some kind of cruise mode like how daggerfall unity had a mod where you could get pulled out of real-time fast travel to engage with events or fights or at least be able to dick around on your ship for a few minutes to chat with your crew, do some upgrades, etc before hopping back in the cockpit in case you come out of warp and are greeted with enemy fighters
however, again, the point of what the guy was saying in the interview was about how they blew it because doing stuff in space should have been the cherry on top of what they usually did and they failed there. they didnt fail because the space layer didnt have shit going on or there was no real time planet to planet travel. they didnt deliver even the one layer they were known for.
I UNDERSTAND. that space is cool. and there are possibilities for space. im not disagreeing there at all.

>>723921105
Bruce Nesmith is right, I struggle to think of a space game that has engaging space travel without giving you warp abilities to get to where you want to go where you can actually do things. Elite: Dangerous has complete space travel but people just treat it as space trucking because it's so boring and there's nothing to do inbetween locations.

>>723921294
sometimes I wish I could feel bad for you cromagnons, but you present a danger to everyone, not just yourselves. So I must remain neutral.

>>723916782 (OP)
Any third rate shmup is a better game than stuff like scam citizen. It's a fact not an opinion.

>>723919441
Homeworld is an RTS game where you get into fights within 30 seconds of starting a game.

X4 Foundations makes fast travel as rapid as possible so you spend time around things more than space

Eve is dead. Literally.

simply make space cooler than it is in real life

>>723916782 (OP)
Star Citizen, 40k, dune, star wars, etc. All space.

Anything bethesda does is inherently boring.

I've always felt the only way to make space games interesting is to re-introduce gravity and then fill every pixel with content.

No more of this fly out of a space station, then spend 60s for each jump from sector to sector with a RNG chance that you get attacked by AI/Players. Instead the moment you leave that space station, you are in danger. Gas clouds, gravity wells, enemies, events, asteroids, pseudo-fantasy phenomena, ect.

The act of leaving safety should immediately be met with risk and not one space game has yet done this. They all throw in the obligatory 'You must spend minutes/hours flying in nothingness'.

>>723921853
Space is better with pseudo-fantasy phenomena. Even adding color to the nebulae when color can't travel through space makes it fantastical and interesting.

>>723921105
>Driving through a city is mind numbingly boring but driving games have always been popular. Flying a plane is boring. Sailing on the ocean is boring.
You are correct and yet driving has roads, pedestrians, cops (gta), and navigation through streets combined with physics. Flying has gravity and energy conservation, sailing has wind and mooring.

Space games do nothing. 4X, Elite, Star Citizen, Eve all have the exact same space "experience". You leave a station then through one style or another just point at a warp point and warp. Typically this takes up fucktons of time too to travel great distances. No gravity, no energy management, sometimes not even fuel, no events except rare RNG ones, ect. Space is the pinnacle of fuck all.

>>723921853
The appeal of space lies in its scale, of both space and time.
https://youtu.be/-x1oxszZBVo?si=yRIqlhf0vnrsyKVL

>>723921990
>Space is better with pseudo-fantasy phenomena. Even adding color to the nebulae when color can't travel through space makes it fantastical and interesting.
I agree I just wish more devs would embrace actually filling space with content that is fun.

>>723922107
>The appeal of space lies in its scale, of both space and time.
This has been pandered to for years and it is a niche crowd who want to play a game that offers nothing.

>>723922014
A properly scaled and simulated space game is the holy Grail of all simulators. There's a reason the pursuit of it has so much momentum behind it despite it not having been achieved yet.

>>723921853
The problem now is that it isnt realistic to add intense amounts of events right when you step outside into space. Also space travel should allow you to move without facing any problems as that's how traversal in games works. Do too much and it becomes tedious and the player will opt to just fast travel instead. In the end it's very hard to balance and get right.

>>723921697
Scam Citizen is a meme everyone makes fun on. The rest of what you list, more often then not, skips over the bulk of space travel to focus on planets. Proving exactly what Bruce said true.

>>723922158
Nothing for cromagnons who can't appreciate anything that doesn't increase their social status.

>>723920243
>Posts a picture of a planet

>>723922225
>The problem now is that it isnt realistic to add intense amounts of events right when you step outside into space.
Realistic is irrelevant.

>>723922221
>A properly scaled and simulated space game is the holy Grail of all simulators
No it isn't, no one cares at all about that.

>>723922326
You're complaining that you have what you want I hope you know that.

>>723922507
I'm dunking on tasteless plebs is what I'm doing, I hope you know that.

>>723922572
Your inability to understand alternative forms of enjoyment means you have no taste.

>>723921990
>color can't travel through space

>>723922460
No one who matters on this topic

>>723920747
Freelancer was right fucking there for them to copy and they didn't do it, and it's insane.

>>723922646
>Be a niche genre that is barely able to meet the success of fantasy games
>nuh uh realistic space simulator is the holy grail of video games!

>>723922608
and now you've started projecting because stabbing in the dark is what cromagnons do best.

>>723916782 (OP)
Bethesda forgot how to be creative and iconic with their worldbuilding.
Don't care about 'climbing dat tall mountain' in Skyrim, it's the memorable locations, story, NPCs
It's *their* game. They can make space NOT BORING. But chose to lean into boring 'realism'

>>723922665
>>723920747
>Scifi is fun when it adds in pure fantasy
A fact forgotten by Starfield, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous devs.

>>723922707
*of simulators
pathetic show

Outer Wilds made me like the idea of space exploration just by taking the concepts and shrinking them to a digestable format.

And Aliens are cool, you can just do that.

>>723922719
Its Cro-Magnons. You can't even insult properly.

>>723922756
>>723922665
>>723920243
i think people are conflating
>space is a boring setting (something not said)
with
>realistic space travel is boring (what was actually said)

Probably because they're brown.

Space is a white endeavour.

>>723922765
I'm still angry that Elite Dangerous is a fucking nothing game. Flying ships feels so good in that game, but there's literally nothing to do with them.

>>723922792
>*of simulators
Feel free to compare the financial reports of Frontier before and after Elite Dangerous.

>>723922765
I blame space dads personally. They HATE anything even slightly fantastic in space games and it makes all of them worse.

>>723922853
>>realistic space travel is boring (what was actually said)
Who forced them to do that?

>>723922853
Realistic space travel is so boring the most popular and successful space game is all about realistiic spaceflight autism.

>>723922863
Whats worse is that the damage caused by Braben refusing to allow anything but a simulation of space has killed Elite for good. Frontier has ditched the whole series for simulators.

>>723922853
>>realistic space travel is boring (what was actually said)
Sure, so don't do it.

>>723922879
>I blame space dads personally. They HATE anything even slightly fantastic in space games and it makes all of them worse.
You're 100% correct. They've alienating the entire scifi crowd and forced one idea of space games which is that it has to be huge, with long travel times between places and nothing in it.

>>723922850
and now you've resorted to nitpicking grammar like a true cromagnon pleb

He's right, space is literal nothingness, you can't make it interesting. Very niche games for autists can get away with "slowly watch distance meter go down while nothing happens" but beyond that, any even semi-realistic space travel needs to glossed over.
tbf Starfield would've been greatly improved if it abstracted space travel on a galaxy map like a sci fi version of pic rel. If it was made 20 years ago, that might've actually happened.

>>723922853
>>723922756
>But chose to lean into boring 'realism'
yeah ik

>>723916782 (OP)
Space is a great setting if you have any imagination at all. These fags had an entire galaxy to do anything.

>>723923005
>Refusing to address the point because he has no argument
I accept your concession. Space is boring and needs fantasy, thanks for agreeing.

>>723922932
Not him but the most popular and successful space game is also fucking nothing compared to basically any other game.

>>723923027
>space is literal nothingness, you can't make it interesting
Curious how so many space games were great and starfield is so shit.

>>723922665
It's wild to me that in 25 fucking years only a train autist thought to just copy freelancer

>>723922875
no one cares about company financial reports except cromagnons

>>723923076
>Mine has Newtonian physics!
>Oh cool, is it just taking place in a boring void though?
>Of course it is you stupid cromagnon only a true white blooded male would want anything but empty void! Wait where the fuck is everyone going stop playing BG3 come back to my awesome JPEG space game!

>>723922932
>most popular and successful space game
Is Star Citizen and that is a literal scam. Which says a lot about the current state of space games.

The only actually good space games that we've seen recently are Starsector and FTL. Notice how they don't have boring long travel sequences.

>>723922932
>>723922896
>>723922951
>>723923034
>immediately jumping on UHH THEN DONT DO IT, a separate point, instead of acknowledging that people are missing the initial point in order to get mad
I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance.

>>723923157
What game?

>>723923272
Then just don't do it

>>723923272
Who forced them to do it, mass quoting retard faggot?

>>723923307
Underspace, made by a /v/fag from here

>>723916782 (OP)
Bethesda fucked up in the style of sci-fi they went for. People were excited for and expecting Elder Scrolls in space; something Star Control style with lots of cool alien races and factions and a rich interaction between them all. Instead they went with human only Firefly style science fiction and it's just not playing to their strengths at all.

>>723923070
>>723922507
>>723922326
It's typical for cromagnons to hallucinate because their faulty short term memory leaves them no choice.
Again, I wish I could feel bad for you, but you're too delusional to deserve it.

>>723923089
none of those games involve traveling through space though? using space as a cosmetic backdrop for a fantasy story isn't the same thing

>>723919441
I don't know, man. I played x4 and I just couldn't get into it. It felt so directionless. It was boring.

Even their upcoming update is going to add a cruise mode between planets, lmao. Realistic space travel is the worst.

>>723923376
>none of those games involve traveling through space though?
No though?

>>723923367
>People were excited for and expecting Elder Scrolls in space
Its honestly weird how they didn't even try this. Why didn't they have six-eight races? Its like the core thing that TES has.

>>723916782 (OP)
>but space is inherently boring. It’s literally described as nothingness
so why did they decide to make it super grounded nasa-punk shit? With that sentiment you would expect that they try to include some interesting world building. What were they thinking? Each aspect of the game feels like it was made by different people with different vision

>>723923334
>mass quoting
all of you replied to me, i have the right to reply in turn.

>>723923481
It's a sandbox. Like Minecraft but with mobs that aren't as cute.

>>723923481
That's every X game.

>>723923523
Who forced them to do it, star wars posting faggot?

>>723923545
NTA but so is Starsector but that is way more enjoyable than 4X. Probably because its got the best combat of any of these games.

>>723916782 (OP)
mass effect shows theres clearly an interest for space

>>723921694
Everything in OW is truncated and scaled down, which almost counterintuitively makes it much more adept at imprinting a sense of scale on the player compared to other games. Watching the Attlerock fly by and realizing that it’s not a skybox, or some canned animation meant as background dressing, it’s an object flying right over your head with a real defined orbit is cool as fuck. Same with standing on the Orbital Probe Cannon and looking down at Giant’s Deep. The game gets the FEELING right.

>>723923512
Same reason they don't have multiple races in Fallout. Its just humans, or mutant humans.
A. People would just complain they're being lazy and copying Elder Scrolls
B. People would just complain they're being lazy and copying Mass effect

>>723923367
it could work if they at least made the enviornmental hazards relevant. Todd said they scaled it way down. What the fuck?
>make a game that wants to simulate exploring real space
>have zero gameplay mechanics tied into it
bravo!

Everspace 2 figured it out with the overworld mechanic, and Everspace 2 was fucking garbage.

>>723923516
its not a nasa punk
nasa punk is just marketing term
it does not reflect reality of the game. game which has magic. it cannot even be considered sci-fi for fucks sake. its just bad space fantasy.

>>723920243
For real. Some giant entities would have been dope. A giant beholder in space, a space dragon, add angels or demons or something. Add SOMETHING.

>>723923250
SC is not culturally relevant at all. It is a nothing game.

>>723919547
Space travel is literally a cutscene/loading screen in those.

>>723916782 (OP)
>space is inherently boring
That's correct. It's exactly why all space sci-fi media is the most drab and dull media around. You need to inject fantasy and mythological elements for it not to be a boring piece of shit.

>>723923761
That's just underspace for that

>>723923804
SC is the most successful space game ever. How you feel about that fact is irrelevant.

>>723923804
its not a game, its a money scam

>>723923682
>it could work if they at least made the enviornmental hazards relevant. Todd said they scaled it way down. What the fuck?
Most people don't like dealing with environmental effects. They just want to walk around cool environments.

>>723922765
>>723922863
>>723922942
Elite Dangerous basically fell afoul of boomer retardation. The atmosphere and presentation are fantastic. Mining is zen, space trucking is fairly enjoyable. However, they add in all sorts of little boomerisms that ruin the game.

>weird ship acceleration / speed limit rules because ree we don't want people "jousting"
>extreme tedium moving combat ships around where you have to make a shitton of tiny jumps because apparently tedium balances out combat ability. you can have your combat ship ferried to you, but you have to WAIT IN IRL TIME for it because of boomers
>telepresence bullshit

>>723923842
This is what I'm talking about. Imagine just cruising through space and this thing comes out of nowhere. I would shit my pants. This looks so dope.

Great space games were being made when bethesda's garbage just a bad dream.

>>723923516
They're old. Gen X has residual respect for space (the real, boring version) from being at the tail end of the excitement over the moon landing and shit. They still think it's cool even though they know it's full of boring rocks and gas giants. It's a generational thing

>>723923682
This is where their constant impulse to casualize things actually hurt them I think. They nerfed all the fuel and environmental mechanics into nothing and had nothing to replace it with

>>723923828
good. why would i want to drive through a black abyss where my eye can't even process distant galaxies

>>723920747
Space travel in Freelancer is boring as hell.

>>723923367
>>723923512
todds idea, he was inspired by more grounded sci fi properties but based on the stories from development and how all the survival systems were slashed, it was clear that everyone else wanted something more casual and fanciful
>he said starfield should have been his dream space game, the one he wanted to make since he started making games
>he cited sundog: frozen legacy and traveller ttrpg as influences
he wanted more autism and it got death by a thousand cuts

>>723923881
they couldve at the very least made an optional "survival" mode. Hell, the fuel mechanic is completely useless. Its literally a leftover from the beta

>>723924039
Filthy cromagnons ruin everything
https://youtu.be/t2GCXRZraB8?si=qWdRp6FFQVvhOxJM

>>723923913
it's exactly what I was hoping Starfield would be: basically space morrowind

>>723917195
But it's a science FICTION game. They could've filled that space with anything but they CHOSE to make it the most boring scifi setting ever conceived. Moving through that space might be exciting if you were running into giant space whales or derelict alien /stations/artifacts/temples. What if heatleeches could actually infest your ship? If a terror morph outbreak on board was possible? Stowaways? Hyperdrive jump errors/miscalculations sending you off course or into parallel/higher dimensions? Just spitballing on a shitpost here but they didn't even try. Oh and PS I fucking hate scifi but anything would be better than their uniquely boring and lame take oh it.

>>723916782 (OP)
>Insist on "realistic" hard sci-fi grounded nasa punk diaper suit shit
>Intelligent aliens don't make sense! Here's another retarded space crab!
>Adds STARBORN space magic and pseud eternal recurrence time loop mysticism
What the fuck?

>>723924270
>Oh and PS I fucking hate scifi
Give Iain M. Banks a try. His world building is fantastic and is full of "fanciful features".

>>723923913
Underspace and Freelancer are both the "what if space was GOOD and INTERESTING" take and it's better for it

>>723924431
>Adds STARBORN space magic and pseud eternal recurrence time loop mysticism
you like?

>>723923272
just don't do it.

>>723923842
Shame it's missing a bunch of stuff. I keep imagining what the game would be with an actual budget

>>723920681
>Erm akshually they meant
I don't care

>>723916782 (OP)
People in this thread are stuck on the flying being bad. Mass effect and kotr didn't have it, it doesn't need it.

The real issue was it was just boring human shit - minus the fun stuff fallout had. Like gore and stealing shit.

Then every location was boring. There was no romanticism of there's more than just us out there. If they just included aliens races and stealing equipment the game would have done twice as good

>>723924724
Other than no voice acting it's fine.

>>723924443
I was being dramatic for effect, I dont actually hate it, I just dont prefer it to most other genres. I'll check out your suggestion, I like stuff that's very fantastical without necessarily digging too deep into the weeds of philosophical woowoo; just settings that excite the imagination and make me wish I could explore them.

>>723924590
Is he still their lead writer?

>>723924590
I bet he thought that the mc talking at the end would be something mind blowing
>my mute character sounds like THAAAAT? UOOOAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

>>723922863
>>723923902
Elite was one of my most played games and what it did well, it did very well. No other game has such a sense of scale or instills such astrophobia. The sound design really sells it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AmRAF3lbqY
But yeah, once you unlock everything and are obscenely wealthy, there just isn't anything left to do. It did help if you had a group to grind with and I had some good times later on at racing and pvp dueling ladders.
If anything I think forced pvp would be the way to go, or at least make a separate mode for it. The interdiction system was really well done and they even had the ability to keep players in game after disconnect but nothing to stop someone from simply switching to solo mode.
The boomer "carebears" would have never gone for it in the base game but it would have actually added some challenge, at least in the bubble.

>>723924912
solid space games with cool worlds are like
>3030 Death War: Point n click adventure game with a space fighter component
>Outer Wilds: Obvious
>Sunless Skies: Fallen London setting but in space, but space is more akin to how the 1800s imagined it: firmaments and floating islands and stuff. Extremely weird but a really solid RPG mixed with a top down space trading game. Can kill angels and mine them for money.
>Freelancer: OG king of space exploring games. Slightly more realistic in that it's largely more of a grounded setting based on real world cultures (space america, space Britain, space Mediterranean pilots, space weimar republic) and was Chris Roberts' space game before he got kicked off and it was made into something good
>Underspace: freelancer if made by a morrowfag with space leviathans and things like wormholes failing and making you have to fight a dark souls boss in the abyss. heavy RPG emphasis and legit good but early access with all the problems that comes with it
>everspace 2: space diablo. Really pretty looter shooter and not that great, but solid visuals and fun for a few hours. Goes on sale for cheap now

>>723925169
As a brainlet that never got much further in the game than a loaded vulture (pre-horizons or engineers), my biggest disappointment was the shared solo/online world. IMO they should have been separate. The game felt so desolate and empty a lot of the time because of the players being scattered over such a massive space AND between offline mode and even some instancing I suspect. I kinda wish there was something that played like a mix of ED and Eve.

>>723919875
>Homeworld
>Space trucker
What part of this is space trucking
https://youtu.be/nDcELUCroDs?si=G9zaIvb44AdSq-uM
Starfield was a flop because it made space boring by having fucking nothing to do in it
Because around the time of Skyrim Bethesda decided that the future of quest/story writing was randomly generated radiant questing for 90% of the content and the competent writers for the remaining 10% left the company so that side got more and more shallow
If you want a space game to be cool you need a reason to explore in it. Aliens are an effective method for this, though Homeworld doesn't even have aliens besides the Beast and the Bentusi

>>723925602
Funny thing is the few space portions in Starfield were by far the best part of it. Like that one shot up space casino or the shipwreck whose gravity kept turning on and off.

>>723924912
>just settings that excite the imagination and make me wish I could explore them.
Hell yeah I think you might love him then. I just started reading The Algebraist and the opening should fit exactly what you described here. if you like it note that his Culture Novels can be read in any order as they are mostly self-contained stories that simply share a broader setting.

Another author that admittedly isn't quite as pleasant to read but has just as impressive an imagination is Stephen Baxter. Pic related

>>723925602
>Because around the time of Skyrim Bethesda decided that the future of quest/story writing was randomly generated radiant questing for 90% of the content and the competent writers for the remaining 10% left the company so that side got more and more shallow
In neither Skyrim, Fo4, or Starfield, are most quests radiant quests.

>>723925901
So I learned that I can INSTANTLY RECOGNIZE this cover by only viewing the top 40% of the thumbnail
Holy fuck I love Xeelee
Holy fuck I hate that I can't discuss all of Xeelee anywhere.

Dead Space is set entirely on a spaceship and still sold well.

>>723916782 (OP)
Space is boring.

>>723917195
Anything is boring when you have no mechanical depth and you rely exclusively on visual novelty to make it "interesting".

>>723926385
Space is not even real. Aliens aren't real either. There are more continents beyond the Antarctic.

>>723926389
Or any novelty, really.
Cromagnons worship John Cage and Dance of Eternity, while patricians never get bored of Bach.

>>723926590
why cant we reach the other continents then? or how can we

>>723926590
>Space is not even real

>>723926385
And it makes bitches dry af

>>723926803
We can, but we are not allowed. We aren't even allowed to land in Antarctica without permits you'll never get.

>>723926618
there's nothing wrong with novelty, it is human nature to seek it. You're a boring game designer if you rely on visuals to make your game interesting.

>>723925414
It is definitely a "make your own fun" game. Believe it or not, the elite discord was the way to go, well it was like 8 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSgg_Ne20LM
It's funny, even the people that absolutely love the game, hate it at the same time for what could have been.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_pzt8v2YeA

>>723926875
It's just a matter of internal vs external stimulation
https://youtu.be/ZoJDApTMM6g?si=txiStd4OdZ4KHHlK

>>723926845
if thats true then the secret is well kept. even pilots would be taught only the allowed routes

>>723922637
yes no niggers in my rocket

>>723927061
Airplanes that flat out ignore these regulations and try to fly over Antarctica are shot down. Look it up.

>>723926845
Why did Tom Hanks and the Pope attend a meeting at Antarctica?

>>723922765
but starfield DID have fantasy, and it was a core attribute of the main quest
but it was just a shallow excuse to shoehorn dragon shouts into the game and the most trivial of enemy 'variety' that somehow existed without anyone else in the Universe noticing.
GOOD fantasy is important
>>723922879
>space dads
what is this?

>>723927007
There's no such thing as internal stimulation, there's external stimulation and reheated external stimulation. The difference you're looking for is autism vs neurotypical attitudes to repetition.

>>723916782 (OP)
Maybe it would have helped to have sexy people in for example clubs and not monkeys as 80% of all citizens?

I became a game developer because I wanted to make my own space game and this is the same conclusion I reached after about 50 different prototypes across a swathe of genres

>>723916782 (OP)
Todd has lost his touch. It’s over. Bethesda has fallen.

>>723927280
Space dads are basically 50 year old autistic men with tons of disposable income who do things like buy an overpriced flight joystick and exclusive play and complain about simulator games. They make up a large portion of things like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen's audience and are these sort of insufferable retards who want these games to focus on things that ultimately make the game worse in the name of "realism".

Don't like spending literal months in real life to fly to a place in a game? Well you can thank space dads for pushing for that feature.

>>723922637
Colored people anon.

>>723923682
They added back environmental hazards in a patch last year. You can set it to how extreme you want it.

>>723927490
You can literally do anything in space, including planets with atmosphere.

>>723916782 (OP)
You could put literally all of the exciting things from Fallout and Elder Scrolls into 'boring' space.
You want super-mutants? Put 'em in. People in space can't mutate?
You want cat people, lizard people, and dragons? You can do that too. Just call them aliens.
You want magic spell? Call it psionics, biotics, esp, etc,
You're writing fiction. If it's boring, it's is 100% your own fucking fault.
Goddamn I'm mad.

>>723927280
>what is this?
They are kind of the video game equivalent of grognards. Aging men that favor realism and simulation in their "games" and tend to be so vocal they can suck the fun out of them if the devs actually listen.

for all its flaws, i still enjoy starfield
pros:
>shipbuilding is simple and fun
>the act of shooting things is probably the best BGS has ever done
>BGS' most polished and bug-free game they ever released
>cities are finally more than 6 buildings - stuff like hopetown and mars actually look and feel like gigantic manufacturing plants
>smaller settlements like gagarin and the mech salvage factory feel like they have real history behind them
>NG+ is really cool
>dogfighting minigame has just enough depth to be fun
>ship-to-ship boarding and combat is awesome, no other game does it better
>the dialogue/speech check system is the best bethesda's ever done and one of the best i've seen
>terrormorphs are awesome
>spacestations are fucking cool
>some of bethesda's better writing (pirate questline and the vae victus storyline are fun and cinematic, even if they dont break any new ground)

cons:
>exploration-based game where the exploration sucks
>five outpost layouts with identical bodies, enemies and loot
>cities are bigger and better than ever but still feel small somehow
>horrifically bad writing with quips for days
>five voice actors
>five random space encounters
>five guns, three of which suck
>two melee weapons that both suck
>lots of terrible-looking gear
>not enough quality handcrafted content, bethesda's bread and butter
>map system is retarded
>earth is super low effort, would've rather had it inaccessable than half-assed
>unironic dragonborn in space with not-shouts was kinda lame, though the shouts were fun

not perfect but all in all i enjoyed it. the lack of aliens and lack of continuous space travel were not issues for me. wish there were more/better mods.

>>723927280
>what is this?
You know how Elite dangerous and Star citizen are wasted potential? Its because space dads.

>Never any gravity in any space game which means all ships are just point and click
>They just go 'this engine is so strong it can handle anything so flight always stays the same'
Inb4 you throw fucking atmospheric "flight" at me. Landing on planets isn't fucking interesting.

Every single space game could be combined together and it still wouldn't even get close to the satisfaction of a single War Thunder kill.

>>723917195
None of what you said matters. We know space is "empty," the point is instead of trying to make it fun they made loading screens and more of the same elder scrolls and fallout levels, but worse. I say worse because there's nothing interesting about the setting to make players want to explore these basic levels like in previous titles.
It doesn't matter if its "boring" in real life, the game devs are supposed to make it fun, cool, or at the very least, interesting. It just comes down to being too lazy to try.

>>723927767
And the worst part is space devs tend to listen because space devs tend to be space dads.

Yet, lo and behold, the best space games are the ones that ignore them entirely.

>>723927774
>five guns, three of which suck
There's over 50 kinds of guns in Starfield.
>two melee weapons that both suck
10 kinds of melee weapons
>five voice actors
There are over 360 known VAs for Starfield
>not enough quality handcrafted content, bethesda's bread and butter
>five outpost layouts with identical bodies, enemies and loot
There's actually more hand crafted content compared to past games. The POI system alone is known to have over 150 kinds of base POIs, and over 270 total POIs when including POI variants. when counting the "placed once" locations like New Atlantis, Neon, etc. theres more locations in base Starfield then either skyrim of Fo4.

>>723927598
Why would I be talking about colored people? I'm talking about how colored pictures of space are doctored.

>>723927280
>space dads
Here is an example. Elite dangerous default mode is called Open. Its a free for all PvP mode. The majority of Elite players prefer PvE. Go on any Elite forum and suggest there should be an official PvE only server because flying out for days at a time to explore space only to get one shot when you return is not fun, and seal clubbing alienates players from playing in coop and trusting each other. See how many space dads come out and shitpost you to death.

>>723928180
Lol, how's the 50 sales you got for your shitty arcade game nobody cares about? Did you consider the reason nobody cares about freelancer clones is that mechanically they are uninteresting and shallow? Did you consider that the reason racing, flight and space sims are all enduringly popular is they are mechanically satisfying gameplay experiences?

>>723928392
NTA but games are mostly marketing and scifi is hard to market. Its way easier to market fantasy games.

>>723928392
>racing, flight and space sims are all enduringly popular
Niche. Not popular. There is a difference.

>>723928392
>eason racing, flight and space sims are all enduringly popular is they are mechanically satisfying gameplay experiences?
What popularity? Those genres are niche as fuck.

>>723928392
>are all enduringly popular
They aren't popular at all. Star Citizen attracts people with graffics and YOU CAN DO ANYTHING, but the most actual popular space games have been shit like Everspace 2 and No Man's Sky.

Let’s talk about Elder Scrolls VI instead

who is this fucking nigger

>>723928392
And this is the space dad we were talking about.
Notice how he thinks traveling seven hours real time to dock on a station is "mechanically satisfying" because his boss says he's too old to drive the forklift at his job anymore. He probably bitches on forums that don't have HOTAS support for his Dogdick 4500-D (only five were ever made).

>>723927280
>what is this?
This is a space dad >>723928392

>>723928327
Funny, they respond the same way when you suggest a pvp only server that is restricted from going into solo mode. It would "spilt the player base". Meanwhile everyone does exploration in solo mode anyway.

>>723927528
>>723927767
>>723928003
>>723928327
Thanks for the robust explanations
I fall dangerously close to this category, but rather in the camp of favoring 'simulation' gameplay, in much more far out fantasy/sci-fi settings.
Silly comparison, I'm still waiting for a mostly PvE focused Dayz. Heavy on the 'simulation', but focused on campaign.
Sadly all of the 'simulation' niche is overwhelmed by the pvp or bust category.
Partly why I am "OK" with Starfield, being single play. Provided it was neither simulation enough, nor fantastical enough.

>>723928639
>Elder Scrolls VI
It's never coming out.

>>723928759
Space dads hate change because it scares them. Its brought about by them not having any control at home because they get cucked by their wives.

>>723916782 (OP)
The reason Starfield was boring is that it required modern Bethesda to come up with an original setting, and they're not creative enough to make anything good. They coast on the strength of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout settings, created and developed by people who either never worked at Bethesda or have long since left, and people complain they don't do anything interesting with them.

But those settings still have a good core left over from the original creators. Once modern Beth has to come up with something all its own, though, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone it's the blandest shit imaginable. And their gameplay has always been subpar, they only stay in business because they're the only ones making these kinds of RPGs.

>>723928515
No, they are popular by any metric. Elite dangerous has sold over 5 million copies, gran turismo isn't full sim autism but it's close enough and sells 14+ million, MS flight sim 2020 had 15 million players. Meanwhile, arcade racers are dead, arcade flight games are dead and arcade space games are dead.

>>723928832
They also hate anything remotely unrealistic because they had imagination beaten out of them when they were kids growing up in the 60s before fun was invented.

>>723928639
Can't wait for it to be shit like starfield

>>723928908
>arcade racers are dead, arcade flight games are dead and arcade space games are dead.
Source?

>>723928908
I know your trolling but I would point out that Elite Dangerous has still not become profitable since their expansion cost Frontier 17m pounds which is why they sell ships now. So shut the fuck up you trolling space dad.

>space dads
Kek just like the cult of the steering wheel from MWO

>>723928908
>No, they are popular by any metric
Lmao, conveniently ignoring the massive amount of other realistic space flight games that flopped hard as fuck because, surprise surprise, they were boring.

>>723917195
>>723922765
>I was also disappointed when, pretty much, the only serious enemy you fought were people…
Who at Bethesda decided to make the realistic grounded Nasa punk space game but no aliens? You already have retarded Starborn powers, multiverses, and Elder Scrolls had different races

>>723928908
>Meanwhile, arcade racers are dead, arcade flight games are dead and arcade space games are dead.
Warthunder is more popular than all the games you listed. NMS is more popular and sold more than all the games you listed. What the fuck is even an "arcade racer", Mario Kart?

>>723928327
the only reason why griefing in the open world is so bad and the online servers are fucking empty is because the fucking retarded devs made it so you can switch between open and offline any time you fucking want meaning anyone who doesnt want to risk losing any money or wasting any time will go into pve, so then you ended up with barely anyone in the fucking multiplayer servers except griefers, making griefing 10 times worse as they had absolutely no targets except the rare naive person who thought it might be ok to play in the open world

the devs of elite are some of the most pants on head retarded developers to ever exist, they made a great multiplayer game and then completely fucking ruined it by being complete idiots

>>723929038
Every time I read the phrase it gets funnier and funnier

>>723928587
See
>>723928908

>>723928608
>Ever space 2
>400k copies sold
Lol. No mans sky isn't a space sim, it has more in common with crafting games at this point.

>>723927774
holy shit an actually accurate post. more effort than these shitposting threads deserve desu. The game has a lot of real issues but for some reason this board can only bring up shit that doesn't matter like loading screens and the lack of blue forehead aliens. desu I doubt even half the posters in these threads actually played the game

>>723929119
Braben did. Because hes a space dad. Once again proving the point that people with disposable money and no taste ruined modern scifi.

>>723928639
Let's not, I'm not trans.

>>723928908
How about you go raise your kids and give your wife an orgasm instead of dumping money on another joystick

>>723929175
>No mans sky isn't a space sim
Yes, that's why we're calling them space arcade games.

>>723924842
It's definitely got a lot of bugs and glitches since it's a one man operation.

>>723928908
>Elite dangerous has sold over 5 million copies
*players, not sales. You lying faggot.

>>723929056
>the massive amount of other realistic space flight games that flopped hard as fuck
Kek, please point them out. All 2 of them. We haven't gotten a hardcore space sim in like 25 years besides elite and the dream of scam citizen.

>>723916782 (OP)
>Starfield Devs Thought Space Is Boring
It is. I'm convinced they were coerced into making Starfield as some NASA PR thing. That's why they had to "find the fun", which they didn't obviously.

>>723928246
be that as it may, you will still see the same outpost layouts over and over and over again, which is a problem. i can forgive a lot but identical corpse and loot placement? not even skyrim or Fo4 had that shit. the weapons are actually a smaller problem than i made them out to be, as i beat the game with a 1911 and a katana and had a fabulous time doing it, but of those 50 guns there are like ten worth using

>>723929348
>Kek, please point them out
Go to steam. Look at the space sim tag, go to simulation, find the games that are flopping like crazy.

>>723929340
It's not a f2p game you fucking moron. Those figures are listed explicitly as SALES. 5 million players or sales is not niche, it's a mainstream genre.

>>723919205
Also, no Snyths/Androids. No A.I. holograms. No genetic changed humans that look different to be able to live on certain planets that normal humans can't. Bethesda didn't bother even trying, they went with the most boring route possible for a setting.

>>723929539
Kek, backtracking like crazy. What, you mean a bunch of hyper budget indie shit that was shat out by a 13 year old in his basement like underspace? If that's your metric then all game genres are dead ends because there's 500x the amount of failed indie slop for literally every other genre.

>>723929348
Off the top of my head?

Orbital Space Flight Simulator
Children of a Dead Earth (and I like this one)
Reentry
Infinite Lagrange

Every faggot space game dev tries to make their game newtonian realistic and nobody cares. But asking a space dad to step outside of his bubble into the real world where he's at minimum ridiculed is impossible. I didn't even think you guys were on 4chan to begin with.

>>723928908
DUDE ONE POPULAR GAME MEANS THE ENTIRE GENRE IS POPULAR
STOP BACKTALKING ME

>>723929685
I think I've had more fun in my time with Underspace than the 500 hours I suffered through in Elite. Not even sure what I was doing after i got the anaconda.

>>723929119
Very true, solo mode was a mistake. I would hang out in Shinrarta in a maxed out Corvette just to bait griefers.
One of the most emergent things that ever happened was getting interdicted in Solaris on a cargo run only for a friendly pvper to piggyback the gankers exit wake and save my ass.
All of the systems are there for an amazing game, but will be forever doomed to mediocrity.

Star Wars manages to make space interesting. Bazillion story to tell with conflict and drama, flight models that are half arcade half sim and a ton of set pieces in space to make combat mission interesting.

>>723928392
i just dropped $20 for his game, it looks fun and i had no idea a freelancer clone/successor like it existed. elite and EVE still exist, wtf is your issue?

>>723929827
>Star Wars manages to make space interesting

>>723929843
>wtf is your issue
Never met a space dad before, have you?

>>723917195
They went with the worst kind of space game which is NASAslop

They only needed to look at Mass Effect and even No Troon Sky yet they still chose NASAslop

Space as a setting isn't the problem, the idea that exploring hundreds of empty procedurally generated planets is fun is the fucking problem. That shit idea should never have left the meeting it was pitched in. Procedural generated space is literally the whole gimmick of No Man's Sky and its barely interesting in that game either, in a Bethesda game with actual handcrafted locations and quests its even worse

>>723928392
It's funny how much underspace makes space autists seethe when it's made by another kind of (superior) autist.

>>723929875
Been replaying Xwing Alliance and Squadron recently and yes they are. Doesn't even need any of that Force bullshit for the sci-fi aspect to be cool as well.
Defending a corvette by shooting flying missiles that leaves massive trails isn't realistic but it's cool as shit, and so is micromanaging your shields directions and other energy allocations.

>>723916782 (OP)
... Except Space and Sci-Fi is an incredibly rich genre.
Sci-Fi isn't boring, Bethesda's take on it was boring. No one told them to make a universe built around a "nasapunk" aesthetic. That was their choice. They choose to strip their universe of galactic politics and factions (like in Gundam and Legend of the Galactic Heroes), alien races (like in Star Wars, Mass Effect, and Star Trek), hard sci-fi rules (which can be kino as seen in Gunbuster and the Xeelee Sequence), and space magic (Star Wars, Mass Effect, Gundam etc.).

I want a space game with the aesthetic of old asimov novel covers.

But they filled with gays and old women. What more do 15-year-old boys want these days!

>>723929695
You've listed a bunch of indie slop made by 1 guy. What kind of retarded argument are you actually making here? I can find 10000 failed indie 3rd person action games, 10000 failed indie FPS games, does this make them failed genres? You can think of 4 fucking games and you think that constitutes a trend worth dicussing? Just admit you have invented this strawman who is killing space games and it requires you to re-arrange reality for him to actually exist.

>>723918978
>Scanning planets in No Man's Sky is interesting

>>723926845
So do the Flat Earth/Ice Wall people have beef with the Starseed/Pledian New Age folks who think half of our politicians are actually Reptillians and shit?
Seems like competing schizo beliefs

Realistic space is pretty boring outside of black holes, the planets and their differences, the spooky whale sounds, the sheer scale of it all, what happens when two metals touch in space, galaxy mergers... what were we talking about?

>>723929795
or just not let players freely switch between them. the few autists who are hellbent on avoiding ever getting griefed could avoid it and then the vast majority of the playerbase would have been stuck in multiplayer and would have to tough it out and would have formed cooperative efforts and make it AN ACTUAL MULTIPLAYER GAME unlike the absolute barren wasteland it is now where you're lucky to get griefed by going to one of very few hotspots where a player or two might be

>>723930127
>doesn't count!!
Fucking hell could you be more of a stereotypical space dad.

>>723929778
There are so many popular racing sims I can't even count them. Meanwhile there are no popular arcade racers besides mario kart which barely even counts as a racing game and is more of a gambling party game.

You people are constantly complaining about how sim dads kill every genre yet you don't actually play or buy any games and they do.

>>723930127
I didn't think an honest to god Elite Dangerous defending space autist would actually post on /v/. I thought they were clustered in the star citizen thread on /vm/.

Guess someone broke containment, hm?

>>723929794
Yes, I'm sure you did since you made the game. You bring it up in every fucking space sim thread and have done for the last 4 years and yet it still sold like shit because the genre sucks. You should have made an actual space sim.

>>723923250
No, Star Citizen is not a literal scam because it is a real, playable game with continuous development, though it is in a long alpha state. The perception of it being a scam comes from its long development time, significant delays, high-priced virtual ships, and aggressive marketing, which lead to frustration for many who feel they have not received a completed product. However, it is important to distinguish between a scam, which involves intentional deception, and an ambitious project with development problems and delays

>space dad enters thread and throws a hissy while claiming that everyone loves him
Lmao

no flightstick support no buy

>>723930382
>Yes, I'm sure you did since you made the game.
Space dad and a schizo retard, damn.

>>723930382
>ugh YOU made this indie game
holy newfag nigger alert
>>723930401
Thanks Grok.

>>723929931
the fact is that a good space game would require some innovation and the whole industry is just about greed now unlike before, its almost completely incapable
though elite could have been great but they fucked it all up with sheer retardation
and star citizen could be if they'd make the game instead of having to continually invent new ships with new retarded gameplay mechanics and constantly break the game trying to put new bullshit in that no one asked for when it was originally funded in order to keep the grift going forever
>>723930090
starfield has space magic but its one of the worst aspects of the game

Dead Space and Prey are fun games.

>>723917195
>players dont actually want
0/10 bait, see me after class

they could have made it like all the other space games where you just warp to a planet and it takes a few minutes... like woah you mean giving you a kino opportunity to exit your pilot seat and do shit on your ship like craft, decorate, talk to companions, etc., while your ship is in transit

if it was just a galaxy or two with hand crafte dplanets and traveling between them actually had weight/commitment behind them it would have been way, way more immersive than just LOADING SCREEN LOADING SCREEN LOADING SCREEN woah im at the planet :^)

game is soulless and im sure most people like myself spent more time in ship builder than the actual game

>>723930460
Just use steam's system for it
Oh wait, you can't actually handle doing any actual simulation or drudge work yourself? You're just a poser faggot who wants to justify his overpriced plastic?

How to make space travel interesting:
>Truncate the drive a little bit with FTL nonsense or shrinking the universe as a whole, but don't make it instant
>Give players shit to do on their ship, give them a music player, let them do minigames like pool, chess, or cards, let them do mundane things like ship maintenance internal or external, etc., make the ship a place that feels lived-in instead of a place that is little more than set dressing

>>723930460
theres no reason to support it in this game, the space flight is a total afterthought, its oversimplified trash and using more than a thumbstick would be even more of a waste of effort than playing the game at all

>>723929843
My issue is the dev has been shilling his shitty game in every thread for as long as he's been developing it. I don't think I've seen a Dev that desperate since YIIK. Every single space sim thread turns into him wanting to talk about freespace and his shitty clone.

>>723928639
It's not going to suck, but it won't be good either
It'll be the most painfully average open world rpg because everyone capable of decent writing left the company and so long as Emil is in any sort of leadership role any even slightly thought inducing story will be dumbed so a toddler can understand it

>>723930484
>that no one asked
That's the problem, space dads DID ask for this, and they're the ones dropping literally tens of thousands of dollars in Star Citizen.

>>723916782 (OP)
Just fill it with stuff, then. Space pirates, convoys, fleets, planets full of weird shit. Couldn't even deliver a decent baseline for players to finish like they do with TES. Fucking hacks.

>>723930562
>retarded space dad confuses games but can't understand why people would like anything other than his autistic snoozefest and makes up some narrative about it being one coordinated shill campaign
Jesus fucking christ

>>723930540
oh yeah for starfield I'm sure it's just for any other game where space flight combat is a good chunk of the game then I'm not interested otherwise
even something like X4 I always play with a HOTAS because it's just that much more immersive to move around inbetween the spreadsheet gameplay

>>723921740
>pic
please develop this game
i would play it. it is literally perfect

>>723930264
>the massive amount of other realistic space flight games that flopped hard as fuck
>Lists 4 indie games nobody has ever heard of because they were made by 1 man in his basement
I have no patience for disingenuous retards.

>>723916782 (OP)
Space is boring. All space games are just bog standard that only have it as a backdrop because it's just a big black void.

>>723930562
>>723930707
You are always going to be a 14-25 year old newfag nigger who never fits in.

>>723930562
I'm going to buy it at this point just because it makes you that upset and you sound like a fucking faggot.

>>723930525
a crew to interact with, give orders to, build relationships with...
repairs from previous dogfights or from wear and tear of FTL travel...
hell make the FTL travel a minigame in itself, which you can either do yourself or assign a crewmember to do for you and how well he does depends on his skill/experience, the worse he is the more damage you take/fuel wasted
modern game devs are retarded to be unable to make a good modern space game

>>723916782 (OP)
Proof that the reason starfield was bad, is because the people making it were retarded.

>>723930586
no when the game was first funded there was way less shit being promised. what happened was they just kept offering more of a pipedream and retards kept throwing more money at these extra promises to no end

>>723930707
>I've never heard of them so they don't count
Just because you live under a rock and don't go online because you're 65 years old doesn't mean everyone else is. You sure you're not starting to develop dementia?

x games are fun but x3:reunion is the one i will always love since i played the shit out of it when it came out. terran conflict was objectively better though

>>723930827
I know, that's what I'm talking about.

>>723930662
Yes, a game that has sold 5 copies mysteriously appears in every single space game thread for years on end. The Dev is a notorious 4chan user who has been posting in the amateur game Dev thread for years, he can't be behind these posts despite browsing 4chan all day every day and nobody knowing about his game but him.

If he wasn't such an incessant spammer I would congratulate him on making a game but it has been rubbed in my face so much I can't help but cheer its failure.

>>723931021
>the space dad is also a /vg/ vermin
Gross, dig yourself a deeper hole, stupid faggot.

>>723930142
It's just Metroid Prime scanning. I get it's the same grass on a different planet you scan blue grass called Xexylite and then the next planet you scan red grass called Yexylite.

i don't recall becoming a dad

>>723930834
I'm sorry you don't know how to count but 4 is not a massive number. I already addressed how disingenuous and retarded it is to make this stupid fuck argument when there's a billion failed 1 man indie games for every genre yet you can only list 4 fucking examples and think its noteworthy. This is so stupid I'm losing iq by talking to you, please stop replying to me

>>723931021
You know, seeing conspiracy theories around every corner is also a sign of dementia. Does your wife know about this, or did she divorce you because you can't stop whining on anime websites?

The little bit I played of Starfield made me want a game that has the space travel and scanning/collecting info on alien worlds, but remove all the combat and (most of the) story and just work on hand crafting alien worlds to explore with unique interesting life on each. And the tin can suit you walk around in, add customization to it so that you have to adjust it to the conditions of the world you are on and the region within the world. Basically, just about exploration and seeing alien life. I think a game like that properly done could be cozy and fun.

>>723917195
why do they keep coping and avoiding mentioning the actual issue (emil)

>>723918978
>Alien subterfuge in Stellaris is interesting
How? Like everything in Stellaris (besides the basics of getting an economy running or using your fleets, both of which the AI sucks at, even on GA with all the resource bonuses), it's just clicking next.

All three of these games are trash, aimed at people who don't play videogames.

>>723931202
>please stop replying to me
No, you dipshit. I get that you think that somehow people LIKE spending a month going in one direction, but guess what every criticized with Starfield? Guess what actual players hate in fucking Elite Dangerous?
Imagine living in a bubble where you somehow think realistic sim games are anything but a niche fucking genre because of a whole two examples, but throw a hissy when presented with evidence otherwise because the flopped games flopped.

>>723916782 (OP)
Interesting viewpoint. Cool.
I still like Starfield though. I'm obviously in the minority, but I enjoy the game and have for a while.

Lets hear your pitch then anons.
How would you make a space game interesting but you have to keep to the whole NASA thing saying 10% of planets have life whilst 90% are just barren rocks.
Lets hear it.

>>723931202
newfagGPT acting up

God I miss Freelancer.

>>723931289
They're competing against Starfield. Idk what games you play.

Another issue with space games, most people don't like the jarring 3D-no-gravity aspect.

>>723923842
What game was this again?

>>723931336
I actually am okay with that, the problem is it's a lie.

90% of the planets aren't just barren places with nothing on them. ALL the planets are the same, and those barren uninhabited moons that nobody has ever set foot on somehow ended up having whole towns and refineries and pharmacy outposts on them for no reason.

You've got fucking mcdonald's workers standing outside on a -100C planet for some reason.

>>723931083
You just outed yourself, how else would you know it's a vg community. There's a game Dev thread on v right this second, there is always a game Dev thread on v and has been for years.

>>723916782 (OP)
yeah it figures the kind of people who made this game watched the ds9 intro and felt bored instead of excited
it really shows in their uninspired plastic game

A lot of the hate just seems pretty forced to me probably because it's not on Playstation and we all know how gamers get when a game isn't on Playstation.
Like the whole "You can't land on Gas Giants." discorse when it released.

>>723931468
>how else would you know it's a vg community
Because anyone can go to the board and see, dumbfuck.

Space is fun!
I had fun in multiple games that happen in space, such as FTL and Stellaris.
Space doesn't have to be boring.

>>723916782 (OP)
>Can you say "leather jacket?"

>>723916782 (OP)
It's as boring as they created it.

>>723931549
Ni hao!

>>723931451
Problem is if they have no POI's players wont land on them and then call it lame.

>>723931414
>What game was this again?
Literally said the name of the game in the post

You know space can actually be interesting if there are actually intelligent lifeforms, factions and actual characters. And we're not even accounting the cabin fever, fear of the unknown and hostile lifeforms for elements of horror. But that's too much to ask from Bethesda because they're a bunch of hacks

>>723931378
>They're competing against Starfield.
Yeah, I know. But how is that a reply to my post? Are you feeling okay, anon?

>>723931532
So you admit you're a /vg/ vermin? Do you get off on being a flaming hypocrite? Stop shilling your shitty game on 4chan, get a real job if you're that desperate for cash

>>723916782 (OP)
what retards
that's why its a video game you're suppose to spice it the fuck up, the fact they have zero intractable alien races show how fucking braindead retarded these untalented fucks are

We really need to fire just about everyone working on vidya right now and bring back the sovlful nerds

a dozen sovfulnerds can make multi billionaire tier generating vidya over hundred thousand untalented retards just constantly shitting out garbo flops

>>723931629
I'm never feeling okay. Just tell me what space games you play.

>space dad is still seething about underspace
lmao fucking cuck

>>723931597
Yeah instead they land on them, see repeated POIs that make no sense, and call it lame.

Anyone remember Starbound? I feel like starfield has the EXACT same problems Starbound has, just without the tentacle rape and bestiality mods.

>>723931654
>So you admit you're a /vg/ vermin?
Back 10 years ago, sure, when you were 55. I left but you're evidently still around and still apparently obsessing over random shit because you can't deal with the fact that people like things like freelancer more than your space dad autism stuff.
I mean fuck, imagine going this insane because people like a game you don't. You sure you don't have dementia?

>>723930775
You will be able to do that in Star Citizen

I really wish we were on .moe right now so I could see the thread only being one schizo making up half of the total post count.

>>723931817
I mean it's pretty obvious when he replies and whines

>>723931216
When randy pitchford pretends people are making battleborn porn everyone knows he's being a pathetic shill because we know nobody gives a shit about that game, this is no different. I'm sorry you don't have functional pattern recognition or basic reasoning abilities

>>723931787
>You will be able to do that in Star Citizen
How many star systems you up to now? Two?

>>723931787
not before the server crashes because they're still adding a bunch of retarded unnecessary bullshit the original backers didnt ask for

>>723916782 (OP)
>>723917195
What does it say about me that I sometimes like just walking around the planets and looking at the vistas and fauna? Maybe not every time I play it, but I like it enough to where it's something I just like doing and appreciate?

>>723919630
Starfield is hated, not because its bad, but because everyone wanted it to be good.

>>723931764
Kek, I don't use vg, I thought the amateur game dev thread was a v thread. Stop pretending like you didn't make the game, your game sold 50 copies, the chance one of them is a super fan who is obsessed with it is very small, the likelihood it's you, the Dev is very high

>>723931884
When you claim anyone who likes a game is the dev then yes, we think you're a retarded schizo.

>>723931336
Starfield’s foundation is solid, but its universe feels too human, too mapped, too safe. This is how I would transform Starfields exploration into true discovery/space game.

1. True Frontier Exploration
Planets are now procedurally barren unless colonized. 90% remain lifeless rocks, harsh, beautiful, and scientifically accurate. No prefab outposts, no random bandits. When a player lands on an untouched world, they’re genuinely the first. Discovery logs and sample data matter—feeding back into galactic cartography, trade, and science factions.

2. Habitable Worlds with Purpose
The 10% of livable planets host either human settlements or alien civilizations. These alien races aren’t set dressing—they have culture, technology, and motives. Some worlds are xenophobic fortresses, others trading hubs or ancient ruins. Diplomacy, infiltration, and archaeology become meaningful gameplay.

3. Starborn Reimagined
The Starborn are no longer “space wizards.” They’re an ancient transdimensional species manipulating gravity, time, and matter through alien tech, forces you understand and study rather than “shout.” Mastery comes from research, not mysticism, bridging RPG progression with hard sci-fi logic.

4. Space as a System
Interstellar travel is physical, fuel, distances, and hazards matter. Deep space encounters, derelicts, and alien signals replace static fast travel, making every jump a story.

If you need me to expand on some let me know.

>>723931590
Just because I play those chinese stellaris mods (which stellaris has a lot) doesn't means I'm chinese bro

>>723932087
>capitalizing random words and missing punctuation
Jesus, you really are fucking 60.

>>723932042
I think most people wanted it to fail, and most people knew it was going to fail as soon as they announced the 1000 planets shit.

Sorry but if you like space you are autistic and lame. The only remotely interesting thing about it is the technology required to transverse it.

>>723932121
Nobody bought your game you moron, you don't have plausible deniability when you're the only person who knows it exists. You're no different from a guy spamming his YouTube channel with 10 subscribers while pretending they aren't shilling their shitty video essay

>>723916782 (OP)
lmao you guys are seriously some of the bitchiest little crybaby queers ever, it's clear they're referencing the vast emptiness of space being UH NOTHING but you're so wounded and victimized by this culture war that every single article or twitter snip is another dagger in your back

GET LAID ALREADY

>>723916782 (OP)
>Space is boring
>Hmm maybe we could ass things to make it not boring, like cosmic horrors, other alien civilizations, space magic
>hmm.. no
Well there's SOME space magic but it's the most boring magic ever conceived.

>>723932087
I know nothing about this game except from the screenshot posted in the thread, but I think I'm going to pick it up because it a) looks neat and I like fantastical space games and b) it would make you angry and you sound like the most insufferable cocksucker I've seen in a while.

>>723931884
don't take a piss on randy
that only turns him on

>>723932185
You shouldn't get into embarrassing arguments where you get found out and have to resort to being a grammar nazi. I'm shitposting at the speed of light because your posts are so low quality they don't even deserve a spell check.

Stop spamming your game if you don't want haters.

>>723932264
>Nobody bought your game you moron
I just did, get fucked.

>>723916782 (OP)
It's been over two years. If you don't like Starfield that's OK, but why is there still this obsession with it if everyone apparently thinks it's not good?

>>723932356
If you think only one person is shitting on you or talking about the game you hate, you're a bigger retard than I thought.

>>723931231
somebody claimed an earlier beta build of the game had Hazards actually meaningful, but Bethesda's playtesters cried so Bethesda nerfed Hazards in to nigh-irrelevancy. Not surprise since Bethesda are very, very lazy and they always prefer to just completely gut shit out of their games.

>>723932318
Mmm I wonder who posted this random image of a game nobody knows about besides the 4chan posting developer who can't stop spamming it and derailing every space thread to be about freelancer and his clone. Please buy it, the guy who made it needs to eat, your purchase will be enough to feed him for a third of a day

>>723932438
If a space dad had self-awareness they wouldn't be a space dad. First rule of them: when faced with anything outside their comfort zone they double down on how everything they believe HAS to be correct. These people think everyone does Elite PVP or everyone wants bed making mechanics in Star Citizen.


>>723932418
Because it's a bethesda game? People are still talking about Fallout 4 when not even bethesda cares about it.

>enter starfield thread
>one guy screaming at nothing
Okay

>>723927061
yea they are, and if you lookup more specific interviews with pilots youre going to see them say crazy shit that affirms conspiracies and lose all your faith in them as objective sources.

>>723932318
Can you actually fight this thing or is it backdrop like Everspace 2?

>would have just glazed over random picture of guy talking about his indie space game
>cause some retard keeps arguing with him it's now like half the thread
surely you realize the irony of your actions?

need a mod to confirm it's not just the guy replying to himself for more views

anyways this thread is gay now

I think the biggest dipshit idea is making a grounded scifi with mostly first person on ground, grounded scifi does best when it's about roaming around in vehicles. If they wanted a first person open world scifi it should have been taking inspiration from space opera, old scifi serials, and star trek where it's more about interacting with alien cultures and including races that are thinly veiled fetish material.

>>723930167
Both would agree that those beings come from underground usually. Only special retards who fell for the fake alien invasion stuff genuenly believe the reptilians/lizard people are aliens from a far off place, its easy to verify that was made up by intelligence agencies. Anyone who takes it seriously can, again rather easily, find all sources point to underground. There wouldnt even be a "beef" the people dont talk to each other like we are now, openly, they would just avoid each other.

>>723932042
No, Starfield is really really bad. It's an empty, ugly, soulless game that just isn't fun.

>>723932850
>talk about space dad
>space dad shows up to confirm that he is every literal strawman you could imagine and then starts seething over random unrelated thing

Bro be less obvious. You're the reason that Elite's only ever been a mile wide and an inch deep, ironically.

>>723932375
This is where I reveal that I actually made the game. Thanks buddy.

>>723932973
Elite and Starfield have the same issues, where if they shrunk the actual playable area to something handcrafted it'd be legitimately fantastic.
Notice the common thread through all these shitty games is procedural generation.

>>723932973
take your meds, schizo

>>723932808
It's a miniboss

>>723932973
I hate elite dangerous, I also hate space dads who jerk off to spreadsheets and starwars all day, every day. You have invented a strawman to get mad at as an outlet for your disappointment over shitty games.

>>723933118
Space dads hate star wars outside of a narrow subsection of it though.

>>723933182
No they don't, the entire genre is based on starwars shit. I have always liked sim mechanics and have always hated the boring, autistic Germans who play and build them.

>>723933323
If it was based on Star Wars shit we might get more good shit like TIE Fighter successors or anything other than EA churning out slop.

Space is a giant void of nothingness, and all planets are empty deserts. People only like the idea of space because they see stuff like Star Wars.

>>723923356
TrainWiz, specifically. Notable Skyirm/Fallout 4 modder.

I see no reason why Starfield could not have taken place on one planet, with your space ship just used to move across it.

>>723933362
It was, you didn't get tie fighter successors because you didn't get anything, the genre died. Scam citizen has sucked all the air out the room and elite fucking sucks. I can't believe we have a game that sold 5+ million copies and another game that has like a billion fucking dollars in crowd funding and yet no real developer has bothered to make a space sim in 25 years. Volition would rather kill themselves making a saints row game for nobody.

>>723933608
It wouldn't have been a space exploration game at that point.

>>723933608
A single solar system would have been better. As it stands something like 50% of the handmade content is only in like 10 star systems to begin with.

>>723933569
So make it like Star Wars? Don't give me any bullshit about it being realistic, you literally become a demigod as part of the story. If realistic space is boring, don't make it realistic.

I honestly wish there was MORE starborn shit. They aren't exactly an interesting concept per se but at least they were something. They don't even get cool hidden ancient temples, just the same ring mechanic 120 times in a row.

>>723916782 (OP)
What are we upset about?
Can someone help me?

>>723933750
Realism being a cancer in space games.

>>723933608
it should have been just the milky way galaxy, and travel to a handful of carefully crafted solar systems, with a few landing spots you could fly to and land on each planet and the rest just unlandable but at least you could fly/travel over an interesting terrain, and the terrain could have been procgen instead of the entire fuckin maps

I always thought the best way to do long space travel in a game would be having stuff to do on your ship while en route to kill some time and catch up on planning/crafting/taking quests/talking to npcs/decorating your ship/etc. Sort of like a mix between Mass Effect's downtime on the Normandy and how so many space games have "hubified" the main menu [Darktide/Helldivers/Warframe/etc] but nothing seems to have really attempted it beyond coop stuff.

>>723933823
Pretty much the same problem with open world games in general.

>>723933835
The terrain is procgen, none of the dungeons are, just handmade points of interest that repeat forever.

>>723933750
Somebody made a game about a subject they find boring and surprise surprise it turned out boring. Anything and everything can be made interesting by people who are actually into it, the most interesting subjects on earth will turn to dirt in the hands of a boring individual who only finds lord of the rings and capeshit entertaining.

>ok forget that in our fantasy world aliens exist and civilizations exist in outer space and there's a bunch of crazy shit like natural phenomena and technology just hanging around out there
>space in real life is boring so our space, despite having all of that stuff, has to be boring as well
>also forget that real life space is really cool too cuz there's so much crazy shit on other planets
>also forget that we can easily make faster than light travel possible cuz it's just a fantasy world
>it's boring bro trust me
and this guy gets to be a game designer

>no unified map
>everything is spread out over the galaxy
>planets will have a single town and nothing else
>your ship doesnt really matter its just for map transitions
>combat is too easy and simplistic

hate this fucking game

>>723923272
Just don't make a boring game about something boring if the subject is inherently boring. Nobody told Todd he had to make a space game.

>>723933925
Sure, but can they make people who aren't into the subject interested by it?
Interesting is subjective, in a very deterministic way.

What would make a game about the void of space interesting?
At a certain point you'd just be making facsimiles of Earth environments eg space stations, and that isn't really making space itself interesting
I'm curious about your thoughts

>>723933943
>ok forget that in our fantasy world aliens exist and civilizations exist in outer space and there's a bunch of crazy shit like natural phenomena and technology just hanging around out there
In TES there are no "aliens" and "space" is just Oblivion.
>space in real life is boring so our space, despite having all of that stuff, has to be boring as well
>also forget that real life space is really cool too cuz there's so much crazy shit on other planets
>also forget that we can easily make faster than light travel possible cuz it's just a fantasy world
This ignores that, IRL, space is mostly boring BS.

>>723916782 (OP)
Daily reminder that there are subhuman Bethesda drone shill faggots on this board who shilled starfield

>>723934179
yeah and there are tranime avatars doing dailies for mobile lootbox simulators

>>723925169
>If anything I think forced pvp would be the way to go
PvP was fun in the beta - because it was actually fairly balanced PvP. It wasn't fun in the main game especially once engineers were introduced and it turned into "grind dozens of hours to win" bullshit.

>>723934091
Space isnt boring. Elder scrolls being the most generic swords and dragons setting on earth is boring. They had free reign to make space anything they wanted it to be and their conclusion was their imagination was so limited they couldn't move beyond a black void with nothing in it

>>723934251
> Elder scrolls being the most generic swords and dragons setting on earth is boring.
You know nothing of TES.

>>723933835
>milky way galaxy, and travel to a handful of carefully crafted solar systems
You fags dont even know how much work this would be. It would be more than the whole collective works of video games up to this point.

>>723927718
You're right, also lol at that webm

>>723916782 (OP)
Bethesda is a creatively bankrupt studio. What did you expect out of them after mediocrity that was Skyrim and trash that was Fallout 4?
And space is not boring. So much can be done in it - its the ultimate creative space. Then again, when a studio with no creativity approaches it... yeah, for the likes of Bethesda, even space is a boring, empty thing.

The problem isn't Bethesda, its that the average "Scifi" fan actually has no idea what they're into. Fantasy is a well developed sophisticated field of literature. Scifi is a dreg of half baked ideas.

Hell this thread can't even define what "space" means.

>>723934406
Space, as far as sci fi goes, is pretty generic and boring overall
I do like some of the Culture novels and a handful of Isaac Asimov's story, but the real meat and potatoes of science fiction is speculative, dystopian, cyberpunk etc

i need a 400 boys video game bad

I get the complaints about planets and POI but it's jarring to hear them in a thread where people are claiming that E:D is good. Elite is far far worse, it doesn't even have 10% of the planet variety that Starfield has, does it even have planets with atmospheres yet? And it doesn't even have any POI besides rocks and templated landing pads.
desu I don't think they could've done anything to make people happy with the concept. People say they should've put in Skyrim level of detail but Skyrim was a tiny landmass, less than a single continent, you can't have a space game with that scope even when shrunk down. Some kind of procgen was always needed, or just drop the "you can go anywhere" philosophy but I can't see Todd doing that.

>>723934308
NTA. Morrowind was interesting. Oblivion was generic. Skyrim is boring - its very mediocre by virtue of failing at being a good action game and/or being a good roleplaying game; all that skyrim is is a walking simulator with occasional dragons.

>>723916782 (OP)
these people never played space station 13 and it shows.

>>723916782 (OP)
he's not wrong but it was their job to make it not boring instead of hoping a bunch of random systems and shitty writing will magically come together

>>723916782 (OP)
>Bruce Nesmith
how nice of him to out himself like that

>>723928639
Hope it explains wtf an elder scroll is and why we want it. Don't know why we got the one in Skyrim. Was it DLC? Can't remember. I think Oblivion didn't even have one?

>>723934482
>them in a thread where people are claiming that E:D is good
Not one soul in this thread, or on earth, thinks ED is good.

>>723916782 (OP)
I think a good space game would be more about the ship than the space itself.

>>723934523
>Don't know why we got the one in Skyrim
you use it to view how the nords of the past sealed alduin with dragonrend

>>723934171
this thread is about starfield you retard

>>723934523
>Hope it explains wtf an elder scroll is and why we want it.
They're just forces of nature. Basically ripped off infinity stones. Or any other setting that puts in "this cosmic power is represented by this object".

>>723934532
The space dad going schizo and claiming everyone was the underspace developer definitely was

>>723934523
>Hope it explains wtf an elder scroll is and why we want it.
They explained it ages ago.
> I think Oblivion didn't even have one?
Actual retard or trolling.

>>723928923
Oh shit, I didn't even think about it being 75% black NPCs.

>>723934591
Spacedads are not humans, they're neanderthals.

>>723934619
Fair enough

>>723934583
>infinity stones
That explains nothing since I don't even know if they are in the Marvel or Sonic universe.

>>723934151
Starwars already exists, we already know what it takes to get a normie invested in space, they want space pirates and space cowboys. I don't necessarily agree and feel all of that is rote dog shit but it obviously works.

You don't make space a void, you fill it with interesting shit. There is no rule that your space game has to have 5 billion procedurally generated, empty solar systems. You can actually generate navigatable geometry in space, you can fill the black void with nebula and alien life forms and planets with atmospheres. You can make it mechanically interesting to pilot a ship and navigate through 3 dimensional uncharted territory.

>>723922853
>realistic space travel is boring
This is the dumbest shit that faggots in this thread are trying to push. None of you idiots have traveled in space. None of you understand even 1% of what space travel is like or will be. The Starfield developers are simply retarded.

>>723934719
>the astronauts weren't bored!
Todd please

>>723932418
Anally raped Playstation fans

>>723934594
Played the remaster a month ago and it didn't have one in the main quest line.

there's no meaningful difference between space and the deep sea in video games except the sea is far more frightening and somehow more hostile to humans

>>723934690
Imagine if gravity in our universe was written on a scroll and having it let you control gravity.

This is a gimmick that most scifi/fantasy has. Take any idea, slap it into an object. Tolkien did the same but with musical instruments for example.

>>723934754
>there's no meaningful difference between space and the deep sea in video games
Except you know, friction.

>>723934737
One of the game's biggest questlines is about an Elder Scroll.

>>723934573
Okay I didn't remember any of that hehe

>>723934776
And the giant sea monsters.

>>723934715
So yeah, we just loop back around to realism being the problem with space. I think you're right, and your way is pretty much the only way to end up with something fun and interesting in space.
I, like you, would prefer a large scoop of carefully curated planets over ten gorillion generationslop "planets".
Maybe a game with a Cowboy Bebop vibe is due.

>>723934482
Ed is marginally more fun to pilot a ship, therefore it's a better game

>>723925282
Everspace 2 sucked so much dick it's not even funny.

>>723934758
Ah I think I get it. But every Elder scrolls game doesn't have one right?

>>723934794
Ill show you a giant sea monster

>>723934794
they're still in space bro

>>723916782 (OP)
Based and correct.

>>723934875
Pretty sure they all do at some point if you include DLC.

>>723934865
Still better than Starfield

>>723917195
He's 100% right. Seeing weird things in space is fun. Having space battles is fun. Going to new planets is fun. But the actual act of moving through space is boring. It's literally just floating through a black void.

>>723934952
>getting shot in the head is better than being drawn and quartered!!!!
brilliant

>>723934938
No. Morrowind definitely didn't.

>>723934938
Okay thanks.

Nta but I always feel like we lack a good coop space game somewhere between Eve and its ship building and helldivers and its quick missions.

Let me make/grind towards up my dream ship, then throw me into a match with other players where we have to collect/transport/recon/fight to complete main/side objectives. Then you win and go back to base and do it again.

All the shit in the middle of space games, flying from A to B, is boring as fuck and holds back all these space games from just letting you do the shit you actually want to do. Theres no reason it can't throw you straight into an interesting PoI and mission right away.

>>723935084
Jump Space is kind of up that way

>>723935017
Maybe I just remember reading about them or something

>>723935120
I've been playing that, it was really great. But its more first person combat than ship simulator. You can't have a team of a space trucker, couple of combat bros and a miner working together. Its just one ship.

>>723916782 (OP)
Starfield had a setting they could have done a million fucking things with, and they populated it with fucking rocks, bland npc's and a boring fucking story.

>>723917195
well yeah, walking in a huge empty open world like daggerfall is also boring, it's their job to think of something to make that travel fun

>>723934798
I'm not adverse to realism in certain areas, the handling model for the ship has to be mechanically dense. Realism is the wrong word since the entire concept of a one man space ship is fiction but the origins of the genre are an offshoot of flight Sims which are obsessed with realism. The reason it has to be mechanically dense is that flight is fucking boring otherwise, there's no friction, there's no gravity, there's limited level design, you have to make up for it with stellar vehicle mechanics.

A person who is creative can even make a somewhat realistic depiction of space interesting. There's alot of interesting phenomena in space beyond floating, dead orbs in a black void.

>>723935162
Space trucking is fucking gay and the sooner it's excised from the genre and quarantined in its own shitty niche, the better.

>>723935121
The emperor sends you to morrowind because of an elder scroll, but it doesn't exist in the game

>Subnautica but in space
Its kinda crazy this doesn't exist. Where are the survival crafter slop space games.

>>723935241
hey fuck you guy

>>723935241
I imagine within a 20-40m mission it would require skill to space truck added in through game mechanics. As in flying a lumbering space ship and avoiding damage from anomalies and enemies.

>>723935273
Breathedge?

Funny how other space media doesn't have this problem at all. No one is calling Star Wars/Star Trek/Mass Effect/Gundam 'inherently boring'. Because all of those stores use space as a pivotal part of the experience. Space battles? Yup. Aliens? Loads.
Meanwhile shartfield has you travel across space (read: loading screen) to visit copypasted generic 'drug manufactories' and stripclubs with fat guys wearing shitty disco cosplay

>>723935329
Interesting thanks anon

>>723935342
Star wars, Mass Effect, and Gundam, skip over 99% of space travel.

>>723935342
Those settings don't spend 30m of the characters just sitting in chairs waiting to arrive.

I once counted, it takes almost exactly 30s to jump once in Elite Dangerous. That means a 20 jump distance (which is considered short) is 10 minutes of your life you will never get back.

>>723916782 (OP)
>Bethesda dev unable to even conceive of making content in their video game
Yeah that explains everything.

>>723935449
The answer to that is not to cut out the journey, it's to make the journey interesting. This is the same argument in open world games where retards think the solution to a boring world is fast travel.

>>723916782 (OP)
maybe you could have made it fun, you know, like other games

>>723935573
Other games skip over space since its boring AF.

>>723922014
>No gravity, no energy management, sometimes not even fuel
nigga how is that a fault of space as a setting and not the most boring implementations imaginable? how many vehicle games go into autistic detail and don't just throw the idle times away in favor of arcade action?
the point about FTL fast travel is the most coherent one, but everything else is bullshit, it's stupid to pretend that UHM AYCKSHUALLY nerds are stifling games with unrealistic scale

>>723916782 (OP)
this is what happened with mass effect 2. sci fi nerds got replaced with capeshit and comic obsessed redditors

>>723916782 (OP)
Space is boring for sure, space travel and space combat is just pure shit.. and I will fucking die on that hill. But that doesn't mean Starshit could have been better than what it was

>>723935449
>Those settings don't spend 30m of the characters just sitting in chairs waiting to arrive.
That's literally what Star Trek is lol. It's a sitcom where the planets are just occasional backdrops the vast majority is just dudes wandering around their ship

>>723935567
How do you do that when the "journey" is literally traveling through nothingness? The logical answer is to skip it, like KOTOR and ME. But as we can see people will complain it's a "loading screen game" and demand to watch the distance counter tick down (they'd hate it if you gave it to them though)

>>723935767
I'm tired of boring people claiming everything is boring

>>723935567
>it's to make the journey interesting
Except devs never do it, so clearly they cant handle it.

>>723935768
Not even remotely fucking true, show me ONE section of Star Trek which is 60 seconds of uninterrupted flying with not one line of dialogue spoken. The characters, dialogue and moral discussions they have is the content.

>>723935856
How about you put some shit in there to make it not entirely empty.
There are other ships, cargo, derelict, wrecks, pirates, all this shit already exists in the game along with actual fucking ship building and yet you never get to fucking spontaneously encounter any of it or fly your fucking ship. Imagine Bethesda making a TES or Fallout game where you couldn't just pick a direction and wander off to discover content along your path but were forced to fast travel to each PoI instead, and ALL the PoIs were dynamically generated and empty. That's what Starfield is.

>>723935856
Put shit for them to navigate in the warp. Put creatures and enemies in the warp, generate interesting decisions to make while they travel. It's so reductive to say any part of a game that has you go from A-B is a waste of time and should be skipped.

>>723935624
not fun games

>>723936013
Devs don't even make space sims in the first place

>>723934489
it could be set in the arctic or underwater and it would be virtually the same except for some jobs like miner

>>723936013
>The characters, dialogue and moral discussions they have is the content.
So like every other thing in existence outside nature documentaries? No one cared about Predator because the jungles were cool and full of life but because it provided a great backdrop for suspense. Yet Alien came along and did the same shit but in space.
Space is not the problem shit talent is. If you can't make space interesting it's a issue with writer/developer not the setting there's so many great space games/movies/books.

>>723932310
The problem is the writing doesn't do anything with it either
There's exactly one small group of explorers that care about unknown ruins and artifacts and everyone else is just retarded or bandits

>>723916782 (OP)
I know I arrived late for the discussion, but this is one of the fucking reasons games are so shitty nowadays: when you believe and enjoy what you are doing, things go for the better (the so called "soul").
Starfield is a little more specific (i.e. designers didn't believe space sections could have been fun), for modern games, in general, we have the scenario that ranges from people who don't really like their jobs to people actively "trying to destroy game culture" (you know the ones).
For me, that's one of the many reasons everything is shit.

>>723934952
It's really sad that it's true, and I liked Everspace 2.

>>723916782 (OP)
>your game is boring, guess whose problem is that
>it's not the gamers

>>723933601
Who was supposed to do work on starfield but never fucking released it, lmao

>>723916782 (OP)
>refuse to admit their engine is dogshit
>refuse to spend the necessary resources improving it or swapping the engine entirely
>hellbent on dumbing down every single rpg element
>refuse to adapt and improve the development process to accommodate the ever growing dev team
>as a result the game they released in 2023 isn't any better than the game they released in 2007, except for the polygon count
Fucking Bethesda, man.

>>723916782 (OP)
Why not make it fun then? Put aliens in it.

>>723937724
>hellbent on dumbing down every single rpg element
Except Starfield did the opposite.
>refuse to admit their engine is dogshit
>refuse to spend the necessary resources improving it or swapping the engine entirely
This is just memes. You really don't know what engines are, or how they work, do you?

>>723937724
People are still whining about engines after Oblivion's remake was in Unreal and it ran so much worse?

>>723937872
>This is just memes. You really don't know what engines are, or how they work, do you?
I know they still can't figure out how to make ladders work in their perfectly fine and not dogshit engine.

>>723938148
Starfield has ladders you idiot

>>723938185
It just plays an uninterruptable climbing animation for you. They still haven't figured it out.

>>723917195
Yeah, he hit the nail on the head here.

>>723916782 (OP)
i mean they are more or less wrong which is why in every space game you dont really travel through space but more or less teleport at unrealistic speeds.. because traveling through space to basicalyl any point takes forever

>>723930702
It's called starsector, tard

>>723938262
No it doesn't, you can freely climb up and down them.

>>723937872
>Except Starfield did the opposite.
They walked back the voiced protagonist from FO4, other than that it's identical to FO4. I wouldn't call it the opposite.

>>723936375
I dont even know what mindless bullshit you're yapping about. You claimed Star Trek has boring space flight. It doesn't. Convo over.

>>723938262
>It just plays an uninterruptable climbing animation for you.
This literally isn't true. You haven't actually played Starfield have you?

>>723938403
>>723938432
Wrong.

>>723938413
>other than that it's identical to FO4
Except
>Traits
>Backgrounds
>Skill/trait/background checks
Which didn't exist in Fallout 4. Fallout 4 only had generic speech checks. Starfield has checks for basically every skill, and even checks for traits and backgrounds, and your companions can actually step in on conversations and pass some checks for you where it makes sense.

>>723937872
>This is just memes. You really don't know what engines are
Oh so the gorillion loading screens are not caused by the engine constraints? My bad, they're just that bad at developing games then huh.

>>723938476
No? You can climb up and down the ladder, it's like Human Revolution.

>>723938656
Damn, Human Revolution devs couldn't figure out ladders too?

>>723929195
I just want someone to rip off Halo's setting. It's deserves better than the dogshit 343 has painted onto it.

>>723938628
The loading screens are caused by game design.

Mainly, unlike games like GTA, or Cyberpunk, where every item is glued to the world and can't be interacted with, or very quickly resets after being move,d, Bethesda chooses to have items get saved into memory so they stay in their moved position until the cell resets(which can be anywhere from 10-30 in-game days). As players go through dungeons, and the world, and move more and more items, this causes more and more of your PC/console's memory to get taken up by keeping track of all these items(not to mention all the stuff that gets saved when building outposts and the like). Other game use all of this RAM, which is used in Bethesda games for object tracking, to facility seamless loading. If Bethesda built their games like GTA, by removing all of the intractable objects in the game world, the game could have the same kind of seamless loading as other games do. Hell, people have built GTA like cities in Gamebryo as far back as MORROWIND, and even build proof of concept towns without loading screens on buildings, and the engine is perfectly capable of handling it so long as you make them like GTA, or Red Dead, where, again, you can't pick up every fork, spoon, book, etc.

The issue has never been the engine, its game design. The Creation engine can do it if you remove all the objects, and the reason why games like GTA don't let you interact with objects in the same way is because it would tank the game since no engine can do both.

>>723917195
The sea Is a Lot of nothingness, a desert Is a Lot of nothingness, even when you driving your car trought the city"nothing" really happens most of the time, the designes Is the one who turn those places were nothing happens into something fun, that's their job

>>723916782 (OP)
Space travel would be cool in a Skies of Arcadia-style world map. Think galaxy scale
>cool monuments and natural phenomena to discover
>dodging shit like asteroid fields or flying through giant clouds of space gas
>all kinds of weird space creatures to fight that latch onto your hull or something
>ship vs ship battles except they're more like Star Fox instead of turn based
Speaking of which, this would be perfect for Star Fox. Especially with Mass Effect combat.

>>723939206
If you think driving through a city is nothingness you don't realize what nothing is. Space is literally nothing.

>>723939845
I love how you zero in on that example because you know the others he gave btfo you so like every retarded poindexter on the internet utterly addicted to pointless arguing you focus on the weak link in the chain instead of the point as a whole

Neck yourself you insufferable faggot

>>723939991
Deserts can also have caves and wildlife and canyons and plant life too. The sea has tons of shit in it, you just can't see it from the surface, Subnautica worked just fine.
I don't think you realize what nothing is. Literally nothing at all. Yeah if you made a game about traveling through featureless flat desert or ocean no one would like it either. Go play desert bus if you like.

>>723940116
Wow yeah and space can have stuff in it too. Like the rock you're sitting on and shitposting from. Crazy how when you put stuff instead of nostuff something becomes more interesting
>BUT HAVING NOSTUFF HERE IS REALISTIC AND REALISM GOOD!11!
Again, neck yourself you insufferable space dad faggot

>>723940260
>s-space can be interesting!! you could be on a planet!!
Wow no shit, I guess every game is a space game then even if it takes place on Earth. When most people talk about space they mean the "nothing" that's BETWEEN celestial bodies you retard.
If you run into anything in space it's going to be in orbit of something. Starfield actually has random encounters in orbit which is the only place you'd ever have them. Between planets you'll see... you guessed it... nothing! That's what space is.

>>723940445
>intentionally missing the point this hard
Again, you are terminally addicted to online arguing. Recommended treatment: Canadian Healthcare.

>>723916782 (OP)
Open a game, any game, and go noclip mode. Fly around for about 30 hours and see if you're still having fun.

>>723917195
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T EXPLORE THIS GAS GIANT BECAUSE REALISM OK?!?!?!?!?!?!
>Now here is a planet with a Wild West themed civilisation

>>723923860
Nope, Kerbal is.

>>723939206
The sea is a lot of water. The desert is a lot of sand. They're not completely straight but rise and fall. They have weather.
Space is literally nothing. No weather. No hills or valleys. What you want isn't space, it's things in space. And relatively speaking there's not many things in space. That's the point. Real space travel is boring.

>>723917195
if space is boring, why not add aliens you dumb fuck nigga?! freelancer, wing commander even to this day still is an example of magnificent-bastard space sim game there is.

>>723929875
for boomers as kids it was

>>723937872

its so dumbed down and retarded the sneak button was the mandatory level 2 skill to unlock