Thread 724063232

No one can give a objective reason for why this is bad.

>>724063232 (OP)
If you don't put time and effort into your game's systems, visuals or dialogue, I won't waste my time and effort with your game.

>>724063232 (OP)
If you didn't make it, I'm not going to pay for it.
Simple as.

>>724063649
And yet you eat food that was not created by hand, curious...

Slop bot games for slop bot people

>>724063649
>>724063712
both subjective assertions

>>724063232 (OP)
>oversaturating even further the already extremely oversatured market of Indieslop

You should care about quality>quantity if you are white and not a pajeet

>>724063232 (OP)
Based an AIpilled.

>>724063712
As long as you play it it's fine. Making an indie game is just for fun anyway, 90% of them don't even make the 100 bucks needed to list them on steam.

>>724063865
Saaarrrr

>>724063232 (OP)
Eh. To me there is a big difference between limited AI use for textures and copy / paste code, while making the vast majority of assets by hand, and just prompting AI to write the whole game and create all art.

>>724063232 (OP)
You should, it'll just get buried under the huge pile of games that get released daily, many that also use AI. So you'll be less miserable in the end because you didn't put much effort into it.

>>724063232 (OP)
Why do you need our permission?

>>724063649
>>724063712

>>724063232 (OP)
If you're not going to put effort in why should I buy it

>>724063767
>And yet you eat food that was not created by hand.
No i don't.

>>724063881
>As long as you play it it's fine
Why would I play AI slop?

>>724063767
AI haters are luddite NPC hypocrite retards. They eat the lowest tier of slop created by brown hands and robots yet hate on using AI as a tool for programming

>>724063232 (OP)
I'm not against AI, but I'm against "devs" and "people" who use ai.
I can safely assume that our dick sucking OP uses it for the same purpose as do all the proclaimed "artists" and "developers" and therefore it's bad by default.

Feel free to correct me by giving me examples of how to use ai and I may reevaluate my position.

>>724063232 (OP)
I think it’s fine to use as a coding tool, but don’t be surprised if your game is nothing but forgotten indie shovelware if you use it for aesthetic purposes like art or writing


But if you’re trying to make a quick buck especially off of dumbass gooners? Fuck it man give it a whirl

AI is just all of the information you would've got from Googling how to do something

>>724064191
It's weird that they draw the line at indie games of all things. They'll gobble up GTA 6 and Elder Scrolls which will be loaded with AI creations, but somehow the 8 man team using it ion a shoestring budget s an affront to God himself.

>>724063232 (OP)
I don’t care but I won’t even look at it honestly.

>>724064191
Said AI is trained by examples of said tools and brown hands though.

>>724063232 (OP)
can you at least use ai to teach you how to code?

>>724063649
>>724064093
This. I recently played a shitty indie game with obviously AI-generated dialogue, and once I realized it was AI, I found myself skipping through it all. I'm not even particularly against AI; I just think it's painfully lazy design. I hate that the dev decided an LLM should be in charge of world-building, and their carelessness as to the quality of their game bled into my enjoyment of it.

>>724063232 (OP)
I can give you one 100% objective and true reason: because I'm not going to buy it, and I buy quite a lot of just released indie games.

>>724063232 (OP)
Then do it, faggot

>>724064469
Original man learned by watching apes and wild beasts before he surpassed them

>>724064606
What apes and wild beasts were making tools before ancient man?

>>724064606
No, not really and you outed yourself as a simple fanboy.

>>724064191
AI is overwhelmingly programmed by browns

>>724063232 (OP)
It was good enough for Rockstar with the GTA Trilogy
It was good enough for EA with the PvZ Replanted
It was good enough for Aspyr and the up coming Deus Ex Remaster
It's good enough for you

>>724065051
All pretty much flopped or will flop btw.

>>724063232 (OP)
China
I dont need to elaborate.

>>724064534
>proceeds to post a list of games that have been made using AI

Quit foaming. AI is a tool. It depends on how and how much you use it. Not every game looks like AI slop just because it uses it.

>>724063232 (OP)
Because it makes it hard to find good games buried under piles of AI slop already, it's the second coming of the unity asset flips.

>>724063232 (OP)
Integrity

>>724063232 (OP)
Vibe coding makes understanding bugs a PITA.
AI art is all kind of samey.
AI voiceover, though? That shit's great.

>>724067731
Honestly i would prefer to pay someone to voice act but whenever i click on their social media i see trans rights, commie bullshit and other signs that the person is a ticking time bomb, so that's the only AI slop i tolerate.

Feel free to use it.
For prototyping and code.
If you use it for final asset generation I won't play your slop.

>>724063232 (OP)
it's going to look like shit and only paid indian shills for AI will play it, but if you just want to feel like you contributed a grain of shit to an already mounting pile of irredeemable garbage, do you

>>724063232 (OP)
Sure, you can.
Just make sure you label it on the package where it can be easily seen as such so I can filter it instead of lying about it or hiding it obscurely

AI lacks consistency meaning (you) still have to do most of the heavy lifting

>>724063232 (OP)
Because instead of simplifying production of tedious elements ai morons make all of the front end of the game with AI without even trying to have a unified visual style

>>724063232 (OP)
You mean except the fact that the games turns out much worse than if the dev had done the work?

>>724064606
Did he really, though?
Reflect upon yourself and know it's not the case

>>724063767
>>724064191
I don't need to "consume" art to survive
I will sometimes literally consume slop to survive, yes
still, I prefer home cooked meals or decent restaurants, so this falls apart even with food

>>724063996
He's got a woman's brain but not in a cool serial killer way like in a jar or anything.

>>724063712
>If you didn't make it
most devs don't make the tools required to make a game. They don't write their own engine, they dont make their own operating system, they don't write their own programming language, they don't design their own computer hardware, etc.

>>724064513
as someone who is doing indie dev and using ai i dont understand why anyone would do that. I use AI to make the job of directing my game easier. using it to direct the project makes no sense. its like asking an AI what color the MC should be. AI is a tool like paint fill, its there to make the tedium and difficult parts that require special expertise doable for a wider group, not auto generate your video game for you.

>>724068752
>They don't write their own engine, they dont make their own operating system, they don't write their own programming language, they don't design their own computer hardware, etc.
Why all of your examples are non-artistic?
You understand the difference between something that just need to exists (food, tools, code) and something that needs to have meaning? (illustration, music, writing)

I don't care which tools were used to make the game, but I'm not convinced a good game made with heavy use of AI is coming any time soon. Simply because a considerable part of the drive behind the best games is love for the craft, if your eyes shine at the idea of skipping doing the actual game development part I have no faith you'd have made anything of worth to begin with. The best ideas come out of problem solving, not some faggot in his mom's basement coming up with his ideal game in 5 seconds.
So I'm not opposed to it on principle, but I'm not playing trash, and I haven't seen any that wouldn't qualify as trash.

>>724068937
>Why all of your examples are non-artistic?
because OP didn't specify art. Tools like code can also have meaning and influence the way we create art.

Can indie devs use AI to generate code?

>>724069271
Of course?
I never seen anyone complain about code in games, since it's a common knowledge that LLMs are good for short, isolated code and bad at complex things that have to interact with one another, which is good enough to find use in indie game dev.

>>724064375
who are you talking about retard? I've stopped playing rockstar games with GTA 5. I didn't even fucking finish it, boring ass railroaded piece of trash. and wtf are you even on about with TES

>>724068752
>most devs don't make the tools required to make a game.
that's why they tend to be garbage asset flips, yes. that's also why i don't play them

>>724064375
Not true, I can play indie slop with AI grinding my teeth with unpleasure, coping that "well making games is hard", but I will simply drop a big game if it happens to have AI.

>>724068563
I genuinely don't understand people who talk about computers like they just randomly give them problems on their own, as if instead of components they're filled with magical mischievous little gnome people.

>>724063232 (OP)
I only support the use of AI to replace third worlders.

>>724063232 (OP)
Because if these last years taught anyone something, is that fixing AI mistakes is much harder and much time consuming than just doing things yourself.

>>724063232 (OP)
cause if you do you'll have to disclose it and if you disclose it you'll get shit for it and your game will bomb

>>724063232 (OP)
1. AI pajeets are fundamentally uncreative and unproductive people, so you will never finish "your" game anyway. You never created anything before AI for a reason.
2. If you somehow manage to still release something, it will be a low quality, buggy mess with garbage art, so why the fuck would anyone want to play it?

>>724064021
You wouldn't be this insecure about it if you actually didn't care.

>>724063232 (OP)
I'm not opposed to using ai tools within the gamedev process, just don't put the raw prompt slop directly into the game, at least have the decency of tracing over it.

>>724064191
>>724067313
>muh "A-AI is just a tool"
Name a more tired cope. This is like saying "commissioning someone from fiverr is just a tool, I still made the game by telling him what to make!" You spiteful mutants are so desperate to be seen as actual creators, but everyone with a brain will just tell you to fuck off and it makes you seethe like nothing else.

>>724063232 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYeNKdJhk98
Neptune: what happens when you use AIslop
Spongebob: what happens when you are a talented and passionate dev who makes something from the heart

>>724064606
It's so funny when AIfags always end up revealing they don't actually understand anything about the tech and just operate on magical thinking.

>>724064251
Use AI as a possable doll to draw over and speed up the process.

>>724063232 (OP)
AI use, without any human work done to it, cannot be copyrighted, so everyone will just steal your stuff and you can't do anything about it.

>>724072540
you really think someone would do that? just go on the internet and steal my prompts?

Most AI art is kinda shit outside the novelty and tends to be inconsistent between multiple pictures. If you get a model to produce decent art then who cares.

>>724063232 (OP)
Honestly, AI is good as a base but you need to transform it in some way. If you transform it well enough most people will probably not even notice it.

>>724063232 (OP)
Because it'll look like shit.

>>724072361
Actual cope from a failed """"""""artist"""""""""""""""""""".
Next you are going to tell me I am not a real programmer because I am using a full fledged IDE with code completion and several other quality of life tools over a bare notepad.

>>724063232 (OP)
I've yet to see AI worse than some of the horrendous CGI I had to sit through when hollywood was figuring that shit out so it doesn't bother me.

>>724068563
people with PC problems are stupid people. I still have a computer from like 2010 with a pirated version of Windows 7 I use for emulation and old games and got a virus ONCE downloading something I thought was a driver. That was 10 years ago.

Ai for shit like coding is fine. AI for art is bad. simple as

>>724063232 (OP)
My opinion is that the important assets should be crafted by hand. If you told me this bed of flowers has only five unique flowers and the rest were AI generated. I wouldn't care in the slightest. If you hand me a flower in cutscene that prominently displayed on camera you better have made that flower by hand.

>>724063232 (OP)
Go ahead, just don't expect people to pay money for it. They'll just make their own AI indie games instead of playing yours.

I can even fap to AI. I don’t know what my cock’s problem is. I fapped to some seriously crappy art but AI isn’t up to the standards for some reason.

>>724063649
TRVTHNVKE

>>724073374
too much censorship, not enough stimulus, doesn't get creative enough, you would have to set up random tables for it to refer to in order to generate shit for you.

No anon, you don't evne got what it takes to compete with catdaddy and bratgirl
What makes you think you can make video games?

Similarly, roguelikes has already tried to do the whole procgen thing, and its pretty bad. The level and encounter pieces still require a lot of hard handcrafting in order for the tapestry to be a good jigsaw instead of crud.

>>724072361
AI users are like trannies, for them it's not enough to be delusional, they need everybody else to buy into their delusion too

>>724072361
>This is like saying "commissioning someone from fiverr is just a tool, I still made the game by telling him what to make!"
The majority of bigger budget games have countless chinese names in the credits from asset farms which is doing precisely that. Bad example.

>>724072801
This is really funny, they're worse than the artists they hate so much

>>724063232 (OP)
Half these niggahs don’t know their games are already made with AI. What will V do when they realize all assets are ai generated and tweaked in photoshop then to blender!?

You guys mentally stunted or just don’t realize AI assisted programming and deving means I don’t need to consult retards who don’t share my vision or have fags debug my work. AI is the future of gaming and “slop” gaming has existed for decades but we use to call it SHOVELWARE

>>724063649
Pro Sonic tip: works for EVERYTHING. I need the human soul under things I spend my attention at, not some amalgamation of the most bland sorts of shit.

>>724064723
>What apes and wild beasts were making tools before ancient man?
Ants. I have 3 different species of them on my property farming both scale insects and aphids. You should look up scale insects, they were literally domesticated into being lifelong babies millions of years ago

They also make bridges and do all sorts of interesting things

>>724063649
Anon do not pretend like you compreend the time and effort that went into the things you like and don't like. You're only delluding yourself AND using superfluous judgement criteria of "how much effort it looks like" to placate and justify your feelings despite those "reasonings" being just as subjective as your root opinion.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if it looks good it looks good, if it looks bad it looks bad.
Honestly, so many AI outputs look bad, and that is coming from an AI defender. Those bad prompts are the lazy ones that 9 times out of 10 a prompter just genned and posted; no edits, no inpainting, no reprompting or gens with other seeds. But to say ALL AI use is lazy and ALL AI produced works are bad is disingenuous and I doubt you can even tell the non-lazy AI from manmade.

>>724073792
Yeah, still nothing.

>>724063232 (OP)
You are theaching it how to take your job

>>724073993
I actually just straight up stop following and supporting any artist I might have in the past or that I stumble upon later on if I find out they did this mentally unhinged shit when it comes to AI.
Like, why would I want to support you when you show absolute lack of confidence in your own craft that despite it getting "hijacked" by AI, you couldn't somehow still do something that blows it out of the water regardless.

If you're so scared about the AI taking over, then it means you're basically advertising yourself as having no actual worth since the AI could theoretically just replace you. Just don't engage with that discussion at all and if you really must answer it, just say you don't care and it doesn't affect you because you know whatever you are going to make will surpass the AI, regardless of anyone's thoughts on it. Then let them call you delusional or say that you're coping or whatever, I don't care personally, and you shouldn't either.

But you must show some actual degree of strength and mental fortitude when it comes to this, not immediately stat being an obnoxious faggot who cries and whines like a little bitch about this stuff on and on.

>>724074275
>ai is going to make my hentai monster wrangler game before me
Hehe we’ll see anon

>>724073779
the difference is that those third party outsourced assets were made by a group of people, i.e. intelligently designed, not some prompt vomit that has no cohesive art direction. granted, you can put in the effort to make an AIgen come up with what you want, but it's still going to require some human intervention/refinement. the chinks on the other hand are offering cheap and competent labor to a larger corporate entity.

if you're using free versions of AIgens, your prompts are going to be extra fucking generic, too. people will notice. maybe paid versions are better but people are also developing an eye for what is AI and what isn't. oh and all it takes is for some group to make AIgen detection software and suddenly gaben's
>no AIslop on steam
edict becomes enforceable.

>>724064469
You can finetune models and make your own training data to feed yknow
>>724072361
>what's 2+2? And dont say 4!
No, AI is a tool, a tool reflects the user's whim and expertise.

>>724072470
The machine god with replicate and surpass your "soul" soon enough

good morning sirs

hey as long as you make cool shit with it
the reason why we can't right now is because it's mostly on brown people's hands

the tech industry has been getting strangled by pajeets for like a decade now and nothing of impor has been produced or made that will remain in our zeitgeist, culture or whatever the fuck you want to call it

Rampant AI use is going to be the next Microtransactions/Gacha for gaming, in that it will mark yet another low point in gaming history.

The real problem comes if ai really does get good enough where you just press a button and it makes the game for you, at that point why do I need you to push the button? I can push it and make something far more tailored to my own interests. Who knows where the fuck this all takes us, I'm still hoping it's all a meme and only good for making silly videos and anime boobs.

>>724074365
You’re not really understanding the use case. AI is used by many artists right now. Even these asset designers in China are not making things from scratch. Ever.

No one designs anything without reference images and the best way to get reference images is through AI because you can prompt extremely specific actions and designs vs having to spend several hours making the reference yourself in person.
When someone says “I made a dragon” they didn’t do it out of the void of their imagination, and if they do that, they have a serious eye for dragons and spend many years making dragons.

When people say shit like you just did it means they never designed anything in their life

Both anti-AI and pro-AI activists are one of the most retarded groups in the net right now.
In one side we have absolute fucking retards celebrating things like disney enforcing and extending the power of copyrights and nasty calarts artists, because the content don't matter, just the title of being a "real artist (tm)"
In the other we have a bunch of souless jeets screaming PRODUCTION READY! and FUTURE OF GAMING! while showing the sloppest AI slop possible, or just absolutely fucking plain boring shit, because the actual content does not matter, just the title of being a real artist (tm).

Meanwhile sane people just use the tools to have fun and shitpost and do rare furry waifus.

>>724074629
nah I think you're full of shit but it's alright we can agree to disagree.

>>724074585
good morning sirs

>>724063232 (OP)
You should weigh whether your target demographic is more pro-AI or anti-AI and choose whether or not to disclose it based on that.

>>724074730
lol I’m not full of shit, go learn how to design a model and every guide will be like “okay here’s the picture of the sword we’re gonna make in blender”

>>724063232 (OP)
It makes ''real'' ''artists'' feel inadequate that they can't produce something of the same quality with as much soul.

>>724063232 (OP)
Goods and services require a floor to entry, to maintain quality. remember when calling a car to your house meant you had money and it was a nice fucking car? Now you get Rohit in the clean but still reeks of curry somehow 2017 toyota Sienna. Not anyone is meant to do everything, just because you can make a game doesn't mean you should. Without any initial investment there is no risk, and without risk there is no effort. Without effort the end product becomes so watered down and ineffectual, it barely resembles what you set out to create in the first place. I get that on one side of the coin you are giving access to IPs that may not be able to have been made otherwise, but that's kinda the point. If you're not willing to put some of what you are on the line to make your game happen I don't know if I want you making them.

There are thousands of games out there and anything you put into the game will be added to that game's experience for the player. This means both good and bad parts build to the overall game experience.
AI is always bad because it's always unfitting for the environment you find it in, made worse if it's AI voices because you're stuck with those for the entire game.
I simply won't play anything with AI in it because it just shows a distinct lack of care for your product.

>>724074806
Activists can't do soul, anti or pro

>>724063232 (OP)
>didn't write compiler for computer's operating system
You didn't make the game

>>724074834
i simply wont use it because it always looks like shit

>>724074748
Keep sayin it

>>724063232 (OP)
I bet Gollum used the ring as a cock ring in his goon cave lmao

>>724074834
So the guy making his one person dev game needs to pay out of pocket to hire D list voice actors to placate a faggot like you who was never going to support them in the first place? There’s a reason why almost all indie games don’t use voice acting or some fake robotic animal crossing shit, they can’t afford it dude hahaha

>>724074354
Agreed 100%

>>724074903
good morning sirs! good morning sirs!

I mean, I used AI to help me with a plug-in in RPG Maker. I'm a retard when it comes to coding so having extra help is neat.
I tried to make this one all by myself but ended up using AI to make one of the ending's picture, I just couldn't make it work on my own (pretty bad artist too lol): https://supertuna64.itch.io/zygomoids

>>724074826
Who says you aren't creating or risking your design while using AI?
Also regarding discussing risk, go tell that to Hollywood who spend next to nothing on original IPs when they can make a new Mission Impossible, Minions, or Marvel reboot. The industry is fucked for any risk taking whatsoever. At least as a single artist with no money for a project I can take my shot with minimal fear of investing my life's savings into something that will not manifest beyond the drawing board if it doesn't get picked up.

>>724074354
Kek this faggot actually “follows” niggahs and he thinks he’s above slop. I bet you paint your finger nails black to

>>724074792
ok I should clarify why I think you're full of shit:
>AI is used by many artists right now. Even these asset designers in China are not making things from scratch. Ever.
citation needed. you spit this like it's a fact but have no numbers from any reputable source to back it up, so you might as well have just said that blue unicorns fly out of your ass every time you take a shower.
>No one designs anything without reference images
using a reference image isn't the same thing as blatantly ripping off an image with a gen. they are two different things. the artist's skill is what separates him from any other asshole who could convey something new out of a set of reference images. you need to be able to synthesize, with your perception and a steady hand, an idea and put it onto paper or whatever medium. equating this to what an AI does is intellectually dishonest, because the AI is a machine that doesn't spend years honing a skill. instead, it uses precision to manufacture an image based on stolen images and synthesize something "new" based on your specified parameters (the prompt). yeah, AI models need to be trained to discern between sets of objects but once that is done it's done and every resultant image that arises out of that data will be rendered with the precision of a machine, like the printing press or an industrial metal cutter that can expertly cut out a specific embroidery design.

besides, I'm sure there are plenty of artists who still use their imagination, or at the very least don't have to rely on references because they've spent so long honing their skill.

>>724074826
i really wish more people understood that AI won't take over anything as long as it is in the hands of browns
you could give them the most advanced tool in the planet and they'd still produce nothing with it

>>724075038
Thanks for the giggle, anon. Hope you have a good day.

>>724074997
NTA but either don't add voice actors or do them yourself.
I watch some people who do lets plays or streams of indie games and every single time AI voices pop up they just either mute them (if possible) or drop the game on the spot.
Since indie devs need all the tens of people they can get, having thousands see that your game is complete trash to the point where even their favorite streamer won't play it is painfully damning.

Its going to be unity all over again. Perhaps good games will be made with AI but thousands and thousands of mega turds WILL be made giving people every reason to be doubtful.

>>724075258
>using a reference image isn't the same thing as blatantly ripping off an image with a gen
So if I gen a picture that uses indescernable qualities from its training data (I dare you to show me how the AI copied X piece and its blatently obvious in the output) for my reference piece, how is that different than just using someone else's work as a reference piece?

AI is a satanic tool created by kikes to obliterate western culture. If you vehemently support it then most likely you are brown and a precursor to the slave race globalists envision.

>>724075426
Then play the good and dont play the turds? I don't see the issue here.

>>724075426
i sincerely hope that's the case
anyone having access to making games
maybe a few diamonds in a sea of shit
but i prefer that to some corponiggers asking me for money to play with their shitty tools and then charging me more for publishing

>>724075258
Yes and those artists are what you call top talent that don’t do shit for free or for a few coins. The guys are talking about are career artists who do work for AAA game studios and sometimes AA if they can afford it. If an artist is good he’s not spending time making video games and he’s certainly not going to work for indie devs who can’t afford to pay themselves. You see the problem here? How do you expect indie devs to succeed on their own when they are gate kept by finances? We’re obviously not talking about life long devs in this thread or life long artists who committed their lives to this shit. You don’t just get good at asset design and drawing over a year or two. It takes at least a decade of dedicated time and effort at which point you will need to eventually bring in money. These types of people go to work for others who have the cash

>>724075441
NTA but AI usage for references has been a thing since AI first spawned up years ago.
The issue nowadays is that these "references" don't actually amount to references. There are people who just generate an image and touch it up slightly.
The usage you're saying is fine, but it isn't something that actually happens since somebody who can just make something normally would rather make something normally.

>>724075426
Im more worried about the mass surveillance and losing your body autonomy.

>>724063232 (OP)
Why should I buy your indie game made with AI? Oh well, I'll just make my own ai "indie" game, and there will be hookers and blow, too!

>>724075223
Thats my whole point, I don't want your half assed, pinky toe in the water (ooh its cold!), milquetoast game. I want games that people stand behind and believe in. Its not my fault you want to be creative, but only want to engage with half of the process.

art is such a small factor in what makes a game good despite what graphic-humping brainlets believe.

>>724075838
you need style though
who the fuck remembers anything made with unity assets

>>724075838
lmao this bro playing text based games like it's the 90s

>>724075829
here's your hand mae certified organic game, bro!

>>724076104
this is exactly what I'm arguing against numb nutz, the barrier to entry needs to be higher so more shit like this doesn't get slopped out by people who have no business being there in the first place.

>>724075441
because the AI is a bot that is trained several millions of times over to recognize an object. basically, it's shown a picture of an anime girl millions of times, and each time it tries to produce an output of what it's supposed to look like based on its current dataset, and it fails incrementally, until it no longer fails and the output it produces can match the parameters of the requested object. human beings don't do that. humans don't refine their perception, it's automatic. you go outside, you see a bird. drawing a bird is a different task than merely perceiving one. so it could be said that AIs are refining their ability to perceive an object, whereas humans are refining their ability to use their fallible limbs/meatsack body to expertly craft something out of a medium that resembles whatever object they're referencing. the AI can produce nothing without training data, whereas humans cannot produce anything (good) without honing their dexterity, let's say.

there are a variety of artstyles that may or may not call for a reference, so the distinction is that the machine is a digital printing press that NEEDS intelligent input. at least for now. maybe things will be different if and when AGI is a thing. until then I'm never going to be convinced of the wonders of AIgens when it's all 100% derivative and nothing new. humans can conceptualize, so yes it's possible for someone to create an original work of art, even if it's influenced by someone else's rendition of something.

if I ask you to produce a drawing of goku from DBZ from memory, it's not going to be perfect. it's going to have various flaws because perception is prone to failure. ask 100 people to draw the same character and you'll get 100 different outputs. the machine isn't doing this, what it's doing would be equivalent to having the image of goku seared into your mind's eye, to the point where you could never forget, and then using mechanical precision to stamp that image onto a page.

>>724076235
Anon wants some shut in dev who cratered his life working on his le passion project that anon wouldn’t even buy let alone praise.

>>724075829
Your correlation to commitment to design and vision are incongruant with the methods used.
>but only want to engage with half of the process
Oh please tell me what the approved process for art creation is. Tell me the rules of what is or isn't allowed in expression or media of allowable, palletable art.

>>724075895
>you need style
>you need something subjective for me to judge even though I have no taste and play video games

wow thats fascinating

>>724075923
>assumptions
please kill yourself.

>>724076484
You have to be white

>>724075838
These zoomer faggots have been raised on games being about spectacle and art style and not on the gameplay and fun factor. Unfortunately this is how the industry has raised them since videogsmes went the way of commercial "art" and became products before entertainment.

>>724076536
nigger, undertale looks like absolute shit but still manages to look unique
earthbound too

a lot of shit games are remembered solely on style

>>724075637
Well I believe we need to call a spade a spade and identify the problem not as AI but as lazy motherfuckers who refuse to do more than gen an output and paste.

>>724063232 (OP)
I feel like using this as a meme to support your argument is kind of retarded given that the Ring is an object of absolute evil and corrupting influence.

>>724076716
Exactly, it’s always been the end user, not the fucking tools. It’s always always the person behind the gun, and never the gun. Thought most anons already understood this 20 year old argument

>>724076235
>the barrier to entry needs to be higher
100% agree
but how? I don't think we're ever going to have a barrier again
maybe one day we'll only watch movies and play videogames and listen to music that comes to us through word of mouth of real life offline friends? what will that be? where does the word of mouth start?
interesting times ahead

>>724063649
You got the Jeets seething with this one.

>>724072801
Double dash = openai

>>724063232 (OP)
why are you coming here? go talk to a chatbot

>>724076870
Personally I just don't buy games I don't like.

>>724063232 (OP)
I won't buy it.

>>724076904
Behold, openai!

>>724077069
that's a great strategy if you can see the future

>>724077214
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

>>724076716
>>724076814
Yep. Its a tool like any other, and using 1 tool to make anything usually won't get you a great end result

The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil.

>>724077274
AI gives you a superficial sensation of the wind blowing in one direction, but then you find out it wasn't wind at all
the better it gets, the longer it takes for you to figure out it's a waste of time

>>724077528
Ai gives you +2 Efficiency, +2 Planet, +2 Research, -3 Police

Game design is about mechanics and gameplay. I don't give a fuck if a robot makes the art or music or even the code. The actual functions guided by creative hands is all that matters. A vanilla Unity asset flip is not better than AI generated assets.

>>724076771
Yes, artists put messages in their works. That's what art is about. ;)

>>724077651
Oh cool, I don't want to get the police involved.

>>724063232 (OP)
I plaan to create my own strategy game with AI
IT'S a long term goal so that's after I write my own fantasy book
But who's smart will make a fortune

Is AI bad if you come up with the design and use it to fill some details and then tune it yourself? Is AI bad if it comes with the general design and then you tune it and fill in the details?

Anyways, back to AI uncensored text adventures and video games. I love the future btw.

Literally every problem in the modern day stems from quantity over quality.
It's the most hideous third world streetshitter mentality ever.

>>724073626
Still a better love story than Twilight
>>724073713
Now THIS is my favorite use of AI, making photorealistic or artstyle consistent Cyriak-tier horrors.

>>724063232 (OP)
Because I signed a contract with a publisher, and the contract specifically states that no AI tools are allowed.
I didn't use AI for my first game either, so this changes very little. Effectively it means that the publisher itself is also bound by it, so they can't generate AI visuals for marketing.

Reminder that anti ai shills are paid by billion dollar corporations to make you hate ai so only they get to use it and profit from it
Never fall for the anti ai meme

Why should I care about your game if you can't even be assed with the creative process? You use AI because you want to churn out slop for profit. I don't want your slop and I definitely don't want you to profit.

Most video games(and the internet) sucked ass before AI so I don't see much of a difference.

>>724073626
Absolute kino

>>724063649
This is very true. There are so many games out there for me to play. Why would I waste my time on one made with ai. I made the same argument with books. In a world where 90% of books are written by ai, people are still going to flock to the ones written by people. It’s just how it is.

>>724073374
>>724073613
Censorship?
The fuck?
Ever heard of local you brownoids?

>>724078571
As someone who has used LLM extensively fucking AI is dumb as hell and cannot for the love of god write anything good
Or rather it can but it's rigid
Let's say you want to have organic happenings in your story right?
The ai is not capable of it, it hyperfixates on details and makes a very rigid structure
Even the human incoherent made slop is less retarded than AI written stuff
Said so, I use AI for my prose since I'm ESL and grammar. Besides that I use to check how coherent is my world and brainstorm ideas in general but that actual work it's better if you're doing it.
HOWEVER, big however depends on what you want to do, if you want sovl story you write it yourself if you want comfort food slop to sell, unironically just use AI.
I use AI as a huge encyclopedia also.

>>724074354
Not every artist seethes over AI, but many many who do seem to subscribe to a mindset where making money or fame is more important than the act of expression itself. To a degree I can't blame you if making the art is your income, but if we're going to talk about the integriry of art I respect random shitpost AI gens more than actors and artists on twitter having a meltdown because they feel entitled to your commisions.

Hello ESL and gramma

>>724063649
The replies to this post show clueless everyone still is about how AI works. AI is a tool that should be used for executing tasks, not thinking for you unless you're brainlet because that's the advantage we have over them. You as in YOURSELF, map the designs and flow of your UI and UX, afterwards you feed the AI with the context of your project and what you plan to accomplish which to implement what you design, you feed to designs to it, how it should behave, etc, and it shits out the system for you with 95% of the work done in seconds or minutes depending on the task, exactly as you designed with minor adjustments to make. The jeets are to blame for the slop you see in other games, they fellate AI but don't even know how to use it properly. If your products look soulless, you're the one to blame for designing slop.

>>724078470
What if its fun to play? Isn't that the important part?

>>724063232 (OP)
Okay then do it? Let's see it. I bet it'll be a million dollar seller.

>>724076682
>undertale
>earthbound
any more games you want to list I dont give a shit about retard?

>>724063232 (OP)
The same reason as using RPG maker default assets.
Sure, that 1 game is ok but the other 9999 are shit you can safely ignore.

>>724063232 (OP)
AI makes people lazier and dumber and that is the core problem

there's no reason to learn anything or to be educated if AI just thinks for you

>>724076618
yes. I know. Thank you for showing me I'm not the only person who knows this.

>>724078989
>>724078834
Y'all macacos should proof read y'all posts before hitting post rather than spending 5 minutes solving the captcha. You'll sound less stupid to read.

>>724063232 (OP)
Because every other retard has already had your brilliant idea and now the practice is strongly associated with shovelware because of it.

>>724064021
I can see why zoomers hate simpsons fags

>>724079143
You're a subhuman that will never create anything worth a damn in this world so I couldn't care less if your subhuman brain cannot put the puzzle pieces together

>>724063232 (OP)
good luck fixing a bug that the AI doesn't recognize / you can't describe (I.e. the entire last 20%)

>>724079239
its more like putting together a turd sandwich than a puzzle if you ask me

>>724079143
>says y'all twice in one poorly formatted sentence
>gives advice on how to sound 'less stupid'
lol
lmao

>>724078989
This anon
But here the majority are just shills paid by the corporations anyway
I see them copy paste the same shill comments that I unironically remember them from previous threads

>>724074354
>>724073993
>>724072801
Why i'm not surprised that pro AI shitters are this unhinged. Being a SEAnigger is a curse, someone nuke india already

>>724063232 (OP)
It can't make everything for you and be good. You have to pic from a mix
>ai art but good gameplay and story
>ai gameplay but human art and story
Maybe you can have another ai but not the 3

>>724079327
You're literally brown

>>724079424
as opposed to figuratively brown

>>724079389
That whole area of the world including the middle east and parts of north africa really need to be removed from planet earth.

>>724077318
Yeah obviously prompting the chatbot to make you a game is retarded.

>>724078834
This. Everytime I roleplay with an AI I end up correcting and controlling half of its output text, and the brief moments I want the AI to come up with the next location/mission/character or whatever it always lets me down, at best with generic answers, at worst it gets stuck in a loop of "ok, and you open the door to see a suprise. Are you ready for the suprise? It's a big suprise in there that you weren't expecting..." etc.

AI is not necessarily bad on its own, but it IS red flag/warning sign because the kind of person who will resort to using it is much more likely to be producing low quality slop/scam tier shit because ai use most appeals to that sort of person.

>>724063232 (OP)
I never cared and always say the same thing. Do it. It’s not like I’m buying. You people are too lazy once you find out you have to do the tiniest amount work then give up.

>>724079529
What model do you use?

>>724079529
Yeah creative writing is great with AI because it’s like your bouncing your ideas off a mirror and you just correct the bot when it has bad ideas. This process is similar to a writers room only you don’t have to wrangle a bunch of retarded cows who can usurp your authority.

>>724063232 (OP)
If you can produce something compelling that doesn't look like ass using AI, all the power to you.
(You won't.)

>>724063232 (OP)
u go ahead buddy, im making my games the good ol' fashioned way.
just stop shitting up my gamedev threads and we're cool

if you don't care enough to put effort in your game then it's not worth my time let alone money, simple as.

>>724079680
That is an excellent analogy and I'll have to remember that, thanks

>>724079581
Currently I'm using an Athena 13B that's somewhat compressed. I've but a little rtx3070 and can't really run more powerful locally. As laughable as it is, I had that repetitive experiences with shit like AI Dungeon and Cai before I stopped using them.
Can you recommend anything for me?

>>724079875
I mean what’s the difference if I have AI review some code and help me debug it VS giving your code to some random anon who tells you what’s up with it? I’m really not seeing the hate for AI? Are you guys assuming people mean “PLEASE CODE ME A ROGUE LITE LIKE HADES BUT EGYPT” and posting their results? When people say they used AI they mean in the same sense when they they say they used photoshop

>>724063232 (OP)
If AI wasn't so disgusting in every other context I would have considered its use for music since I have no talent in that area. Despite noticing and hating AI writing and art I don't really care when I hear the music. Now that I associate it with spam and laziness I'd rather just use royalty free music or buy some cheap tracks.

Im realising that entertainment industries have many parallels with fashion and that if something is considered unfashionable or lame it doesn't matter how technically proficient it is, nobody wants to see it

>>724080071
use opus

Okay but WHY didn't they just fly the eagles to Mordor?

>>724080097
problem being, most of the time when "idea guys" say they use AI its not just for reviewing code they wrote.
The closer it is being used as a high powered search engine, the better.

>>724080126
There's a difference between liking something or not (good/bad feelings) and having connotations of something convince you not to like it. The latter is considered brainrot behavior and I'd suggest trying not to become swayed with such stereotypes unless you yourself feel that way about it, not from being convinced.

>>724080192
Eagles aren't like horses and are dicks, and gandalpho already had shadowfag to race around the country

Im poor. Im literally on welfare, and live with my parents in a small rural area with 0 job opportunities for someone like me (white male, born in canada)
>I write code as a hobby, hoping oneday for a job or to make something enjoyable.
>I use AI content(SFX, music, art) as placeholder content.
>if I make money, or if I release a game and it gets interest, ill replace the AI stuff with better actual content when I can afford it


The thing about AI, is it's just another thing taken as a part of the culture war.
>People like in highly competitive and unjust society that makes you feel taken advantage of and not give you fair dues
>People feel like they are highly scrutinized and walking on eggshells with most people/places
>People are insecure and highly irritated in general
>in order to feel less insecure, they need to feel 'better' than others
>normies (anything below 140 IQ) pick arbitrary things to devolve into black/white issues with 0 nuance
>these issues are done to say 'oh you like x, or think y? im better than you and you are just like the absurd strawman I based off combining all the things I hate about various people who have this opinion'


People like >>724063649 who straight up make false equivalencies and lie in order to push their need to feel better than others. If using AI was third world behaviour, as they say, they would be able to articulate it instead of making falsities with the attempt to sound 'too good for it'. Just like how they complain about AI scams, as a means to hate to AI, and HATE if you bring up that they just hate scammers, as its a human being using the AI as another tool. THey hate AI more than the scammers. I wonder why.

>>724080192
>gets clapped by the eye
1 job

>>724063232 (OP)
>>724068752
>>724063767
Doing things properly or using a real tool is generally much more powerful and more easily integrated into a workflow than AI.

>>724080424
Its true the eagles dont like people. They only obey radaghast and even then it's more of an agreement he doesnt command them.

You should know by now that the real problem are hindoos spreading like a virus. AI slop is just a symptom.

>>724063232 (OP)
Look at DLSite as microcosm of issues with AI games, in theory there should be explosion of titles with tons of content that normal devs aren't capable of making, in practice we get even more shitty image viewers with 20 scenes and default RPGmaker combat.
I don't mind AI being used in games where dev actually want to make a fun product, but generally it's a giant red flag that inform me the devs will most likely cut every corner there is to deliver the most soulless slop they're capable of producing.

>>724080192
Sauron would easily see that and it'd be intercepted. They had to sneak the ring into Mordor

>>724064513
Yeah AI for dialogue is unforgivable. Even if you're not a good writer just dump your esoteric stream of consciousness into random NPCs and it will appreciated as sovl.

>>724080850
ill take higurashi potato hands over AI any day of the week, this is just sad at this point.

>>724080328
Having good or bad feelings about anything is related to connotations. The reason woke shit is so appalling is it is now associated with the dumbest, most mentally ill retards/behaviour in the western world. AI is already in the same situation because of the flood of third world slop, scams and brain dead coomer shit.

human beings are built to desire things that other people desire and there is a flip side to this where they grow to hate what others do. You may think this is purely 50iq NPC behaviour but this works on a subconscious level in all people. This is why everyone dresses within the same range in every era, this is why everyone rates the same types of faces and body types highly in every era, this is why taste in cars, architecture and films also shifts by era.

>>724063649
And yet, roguelikes infest the indie market.

>>724077190
Oh that's what people meant when they accused Mario Kart of using AI.

>>724068563
IMAGINE BEING AT COMPUTERS

>>724080850
I'm thinking about making a game using ai art so I checked the competition in detail, you are totally right. It's the same on f95 with weg games using ai art as dlsite. Most games are very lazy, no adetailer to fix the faces, some don't even upscale or look for a specific style and use 2 or 3 western artist mixed together, very low number of picture, choice a or b,...

My problem is the other way around, I have so many images that I don't know how to put those into a game that make sense and doesn't make it feel like a huge dump.

>>724063232 (OP)
Only thing ethically wrong with AI is enviromental damage, which can be changed. I was never convinced by the "stealing" argument.

That said, I think putting in more time and effort produces a better result. AI art/music isn't even the McDonalds of the art world, it's the the pre-cooked gas station hamburger of the art world. If your gourmet meal has a fucking gas-station cheeseburger in it, I don't want to eat it.

>>724081084
>The reason woke shit is so appalling is it is now associated with the dumbest, most mentally ill retards/behaviour in the western world
Maybe now, but it has always been objectionable because it's savior complex bullshit about prioritizing a global audiance or a select group of disenfranchised or downtrodden people while having almost a selectively hypocritical blindspot to others in need, all wrapped up in socialist rhetoric to homogenize the masses into their subjective correctthink. Them being annoying made it easier for others to wake up to their bullshit, but that's an optics battle over principle. Don't get me wrong, it's good people realized hoe fucked they were, but if you fall for rhetoric without principle then you're subjecting yourself to the exact same path that I just warned about, beciming someone's useful idiot.
Your point is heard that sometimes if something feels wrong that's your natural instinct fighting for you even if you can't articulate it
>"you might not have noticed, but your brain did."
But I'm so damn skeptical that in our hyper fast evolving world of technology and methods of control the powers at be are on the forefront of using to poke and prod us in line that we can still rely on our natural instincts to carry us.
When me and my long term gf broke up, a song I really liked was popular and actually talked about breakups. I associated that song with the loss of my love, and after that Ioathed and avoided the song. It is my right to choose to listen to it or not, but I don't want my feelings to be controlled by my jerk reactions or involuntary mapping of stimuli. All I'm saying is you should be vigilant of that too.

>>724080850
where can i see more sloppa of this bitch posted in?

>>724081959
>Only thing ethically wrong with AI is enviromental damage, which can be changed
I'll also add to this that computer farms, big tech, China, etc will be running processors into the ground with something else if not AI. Crypto farming, bot posting on social media sites, whatever. What are you using your power draining PC for that's so much more altruistic than AI, playing Baulder's Gate 3?

>>724082346
>if these assholes weren't shitting in our water supply, it'd just be some other assholes shitting in our water supply!
retarded take senpai. how bout we all just stop shitting in the water supply? anyway playing vidya is many, many times less damaging than the aforementioned environmental damage that arises out of AI server/computing warehouses or whatever the fuck.

>>724073085
You were never an artist to begin with aifag so how would you know?

>>724082108
I don't think woke shit was that objectionable in it's nascent phase. Half life 2 and team fortress 2 are undeniably driven by the same feelings around diversity and representation but absolutely nobody cares because at that time it was not associated with ugly blue haired retards and the worst social effects of wokeism had not manifested. We are undergoing the same shift with the foundations of all western liberal thought. The pillars of everything we believed in are increasingly associated with rotting western powers while the appeal of east Asian aesthetics and thought moons because that part of the world is seemingly functional, leading a glow around it .This is also true of religion which was associated with retards who believe in antiquated shit because they are scared of death or ignorant and it is now shifting to people who are less mentally ill and morally confused. Of course this is something you have to check in yourself or one day you'll be a woke moron and the next a larping Christian fascist but people are stupid monkeys and this is how they function. It is good to acknowledge that you are not an island. When you struggle too hard against prevailing thought you often end up becoming an inverted contrarian meme.

If we return to AI I have both fundamental issues with it as an outsourcing machine instead of a tool but now also a tidal wave of bad connotations with it

Kill yourself Cris

>>724041627
Make this game

>>724063232 (OP)
If you're just trying to make your nut then I can't really shame it since there's a lot of shovelware on the net that would be made with or without AI. The problem is that AIfags will tout it as though they're in a morally superior place for the reason that they use AI for wholly arbitrary reasons instead of just saying with their whole chest that they wanted to take a shortcut. What they do is no different than Amir flipping unity assets to make 10,000 dogshit games that might be able to sell for a buck on the merits of being funny, but they treat it like they have the moral highground.

>>724081959
Using a PS5 is unethical from the same standpoint, not that you'd care unless people were using them for AI tasks.

>>724073085
Programmers are brick layers, nobody cares if you replace them with a machine. If you replace the architect you run into issues. High level thinking cannot be outsourced but it will be and the result will always suffer

>>724074245
Absolute projection. Some of us are not soulless consoomer jeets such as yourself and appreciate and wonder about how much effort was put into our favorite pieces of art. You might as well just kys for how much of a bug you are

Can I get feedback on my ChatGPT output? This is what I got AI to write for me:
>>724080514

>>724080514
>My mama's kinda homeless...
>I live with my dad, I wanna help her out...

>>724068119
>that pic
Seanigger detected

>>724063232 (OP)
YWNBADeveloper
>>724073642
this

>>724080514
>I'm poor and stupid, listen to my opinion
No. Stop making excuses.

>>724073374
This. I can't come to it because it turns the intentionality of the artist is what gets me

>>724063232 (OP)
This, our President supports AI so why can’t you retarded snowflakes do your patriotic duty and do the same?

>>724084182
I feel like appreciating the effort into something is a fine angle of appreciation, but flat out saying "I don't care how impressive it looks, I only care about the effort to make it" is just as foolish as the strawman you paint me as.

>>724074245
Stay mad, AI generation is nothing but soulless faggotry.

>>724084459
being president hasnt meant anything for at least 80 years now

>>724084362
Haven't even though about it like that. One day I'll get to bully you, and claim that I have been marginalized by devs like you for my whole life.

>>724084541
That is the automatic position you take when you "make" AI "art". You had no intentionality inherently because you didn't work for it and commissioned a machine to do it for you instead through a game of telephone.

>>724084616
Show some fucking respect you tranny

>>724063232 (OP)
I dont want to play it
>"Bbbut other will"
Yea maybe, but a good bit less, plus the negative pr. Ect ect.
Use it for interesting minor add ons like creating patterns for clothes you want ect ect but if your game is Ai generated for the main game or process. I lose interest

>>724084616
It means a lot to me.

the only place AI makes sense is with quickly coding boilerplate out of laziness. everywhere else it feels too retarded.

>>724084681
Quoting an anon in another thread who phrased it perfectly

>wants to take the easy way instead of putting in some effort and then gets irrationally angry when he's told that he'll never be a real artist/woman
>AIpajeets are spiritually aligned with trannies on every level. There's the exact same spitefulness and fantasies of finally getting back at their mean oppressors underlying everything they do.

>something made with AI behind the scenes
>:D
>AI disclaimer
>:(
You people are retarded and have not an inkling of an idea that not only is AI in everything it knows your habits and all your information.
>but im NEET I don't go outside how can they track me.
they know the molecular composition of your taint sweat on your chair at 2:47pm.
Retards use 4chan and don't think they're already on a list.

>>724084862
So this mean I have to accept and consoom it? Are you retarded?

>>724084846
You let the trannies produce all the media, but you first get mad when AI hits the scene. It's really interesting. I don't think the right even wants to win any culture war. They just love to be cucked and enjoy their bitch bottom status.

>>724083710
Woke is more than inclusive, its progressivist from the lense of the late 2010s/2020s. It's not enough that you agknowladge [different race/nationality/gender], you also have to give them fair representation and treat them polite; can't even have sattire or parody, lest you create rhetoric that turns people into biggots. They will tell you it's not just ok but you are compelled to punch nazis while also saying you need to respect that they want to dsimantle your role in society and you need to accept that.
If Half Life/TF2 were considered progressivist (which in 2007, having black people around or women holding guns wasn't groundbreaking)
Shit, I actually got into an argument the other day with a woke friend of mine who says he doesn't touch Valve games because they're all catering too much to the white male audiance and acted like that's obvious. Maybe he doesn't speak for the whole but at least some wokies see it as so little that they don't rven register it as accepting or liberally minded.
I think your feelings of the western world are through a pessimistic lense but not unfounded or inappropriate. I also think that big tech is the biggest reason it has become an outsourcing tool. Personally, much like the AAA gaming market, I cannot wait for the bubble to pop on AI tech, despite adoring both vidya and LLMs I will be happy to see giant corporations slither back into other industries and leave thwir talons out of my interests by overbloating them to the point of uselessness and dictating the market on how others behave in pursuit of profits.

>>724085120
Don't know where you got any of that from my post, but I suppose this is the intellectual equivalent of a fatass starting his fitness journey with a walk around the block so I congratulate you.

AI can do anything. I say "AI create the perfect system" and it does it. It's great.

>>724085224
The right could have made games, books, media, music but they chose to just cry about it.

>>724084713
If the AI made my vision as I saw it I like it. If the AI failed at my vision or if it fucked up output in other ways I do not like it. Say all you like, I do indeed have a vision, otherwise my prompt would be barebones. If the AI does not process what I'm articulating I redo the prompt until I see my vision realized.
I worked for it differently, using different skills and the tool of the AI. I may not have worked as hard or intensive as you would if you painted, but this isn't a pissing contest.

>>724085451
>criticize AI
>"THE RIGHT THE RIGHT THE RIGHT"
Are you a bot? I lean left

>>724063232 (OP)
>a objective reason
Of course someone that doesn't know when to use a/an wants to use AI.

>>724064513
Ai world building: Kingdom of Eldoria is ruled by Princess Seraphina who wages war against the forces of darkness led by evil Princess Lilith.

>>724085602
So you're just mad when your side is under fire for once? Why should I have any sympathy to garbage like you. I've seen how you treat those below when you hold all the cards.

You're evil and frankly deserve all the pain.

>>724085881
Okay, broken bot theory proven correct, thank you

>>724063232 (OP)
No one ever said it was bad.

>>724063232 (OP)
Kill all AIniggers

>>724085997
So you're just going to be dishonest all the time? What's the point of even trying to engage with you sincerely?

>>724086309
One last chance to explain how anything you're saying is relevant to what I've said

I've assumed people have been using "ai" tools before they were called ai tools but if you make something that looks like and resembles slop, I'm going to call it slop.

>>724086463
You were crying about trannies. I'm calling you a feckless bitch because all you can do is bitch. What's so hard to understand? Bitch.

>>724063232 (OP)
>no one can give an objective reason why the ring's temptation is bad

>>724086680
No, I was "crying" about AI faggots, you retard. I know you're bored and attempting to troll but at least be funny about it, this is just dull

>>724063649
Based. You really riled up the ai trannies with this post anon.

>>724086746
Yes, just like you cry about trannies. It's pathetic. You'll never amount to anything.

>>724087087
>>724084846
>There's the exact same spitefulness and fantasies of finally getting back at their mean oppressors underlying everything they do.

>>724078994
Fuck no, I don't want to play soulless slop.

>>724087087
It is time for ants and trannies to do the deed and develop the grass factory.

>>724063232 (OP)
Yes, lets reduce the effort and passion required to make video games even further, what could possibly go wrong?

>>724087043
Subhumans can't handle reality

>>724063649
>If you don't put time and effort into your game's systems, visuals or dialogue, I won't waste my time and effort with your game.
yet you buy every pokemon game
curious

>>724063232 (OP)
If you put no effort into making your shit, why would I give you money? Same with AAAtards, they want to use AI to lower costs but there's no way games will be cheaper for the consumer.

>>724087275
I think you're just projecting. You imagine that everyone is out to get you. You have a persecution complex.

>>724063649
This

>>724087506
Maybe if you make more shots in the dark, you'll hit eventually.

>>724080514
Hey, if it makes you feel any better, I'm an artist who's fucking retarded when it comes to selling my art online due to how terminally offline I am. I work a full time job now and don't really have time to make commission art without raping my job schedule into oblivion, and I have no support network to help me climb out if shit goes wrong.

Circumstances are fucked for everyone, especially when you're stuck in a loop with very limited options and no way out unless you're willing to go down in flames if it doesn't work out. Those who are able to avoid this usually have a support network and incredible opportunities that allow them to break out without much risk. Hell, just having good social skills may be all you need, but I wouldn't know since I don't really have them.

>>724087678
iktf
I'm an artist and programmer working on my own game for giggles. I'm not a great artist yet but I try and I think it's overall okay. Too autistic to sell my stuff well though, my shorts on my project get like 300 views

>>724087415
That's usually why people end up voting Republican in the first place.

>>724063232 (OP)
It's fine as long as the game is free.
Simple as.

>>724085145
Woke impulses manifest in different ways over time, it was eventually defined by resentment politics which is when everyone turned on it. Halflife 2 absolutely has nascent woke instincts, alxy being mixed race with a black physicist dad is the kind of choice a woke virtue signaller obsessed with inversion would make. You can also look deeper into the vague themes of colonialism vs rebels in those games and come to some conclusions but overall I don't judge any of it poorly because I understand these choices were made subconsciously and primarily because they were unusual or interesting. Wokies hate valve now because they didn't follow them all the way down their mentally ill path.

Open source AI is broadly fine and while I'd still judge lazy retards for offloading their vision to it I wouldn't be as negative on the tech as a whole if the future wasn't in the hands of the most disgusting corporate golems on earth. The optimistic view of AI is everyone has their own robot pet who is smart enough to replicate your casual interface with the internet while assisting with other practical tasks. The actual future is economic collapse while tech corps charge you an ever increasing subscription to think for you and to interface with the decimated job market.

E=mc2 + AI *drops mic*

>>724063649
You must be pretty bad at games if playing one took effort on your part.

>>724088516
You must play some shitty games if they require no effort
>walking sim reaction image
Yup

>>724063232 (OP)
AI is still not at the point where it's a functional artistic tool for anything other than memes and CRPG portraits. It's fairly reliable for something like learning a new language though.

>>724063232 (OP)
So the thread is agreement then. Gen slop is bad. Using ai as tool is good.
No asking AI for anything unless it’s to review or evaluate your stuff. This is the intended vision behind AI. Everything else is a toy

>>724068937
>Why all of your examples are non-artistic?
Because the anon just didn't bother to include art examples. Plenty of games get made where the devs didn't actually do all the art. People have spent years finding the sources of all the textures used in Mario 64. What exactly is the difference between grabbing a texture from some asset library and typing what you want for a texture in a prompt window?

>>724063232 (OP)
As long as I get a good product in the end, I don't care how it was made. If you can achieve that with AI, then all is good.

>>724088792
>It's fairly reliable for something like learning a new language though.
depends on the language. ime its mid at hindi. still the best hindi learning resource there is afaik. especially because you can use it to generate transcripts of spoken content

>>724088758
So you aren't disputing that it takes you effort then?

>>724089017
Sar...

>>724089037
I wasn't the anon you were talking to. But if you are playing a game that doesn't require any effort on your part, you are willingly engaging with things that don't challenge you and that is a sign of weakness. You are an inferior but you will desperately try to claim the opposite.

>>724063232 (OP)
Because AI breaks all the copyright laws known to man and making money from copyright material is illegal.
That's why there are like 100 on going lawsuits for this that AIfags don't want to talk about

>>724089275
Redpill me

>>724089275
So? You could argue that you're just stealing copyrighted material when you take inspiration from other media.

>>724089505
Not how it works but keep talking out your ass, it will amuse us

>>724089793
An AI model that was made to work like the human brain would still be stealing copyrighted material if it was trained on copyrighted material. The only reason it's not considered stealing is because we've made an exception for humans.

>>724089991
So humans being inspired isn't breaking copyright law, great, thanks for playing. Man, people destroying their own arguments themselves is always a joy

>>724090154
But an AI being inspired would be braking the law just because it's a machine?

>>724089991
AI doesn't work like human brains. That's just what programmers say to themselves so they understand it, but they have no idea how biology works

>>724063232 (OP)
Because there's no creative input from you. At that point you're the game dev equivalent of a dropshipper.

>>724090338
Correct. We were talking about copyright law, not your weird attempt at philosophy. AI doesn't get "inspired" as it is not a human.

>>724089226
>But if you are playing a game that doesn't require any effort on your part
We are far from the point where an entire game can be made purely with AI. There is going to be human effort involved. Really it's a question of the developer being able to spend their effort in the areas of the game they are passionate about. With the player benefitting from the dev's passion having their full attention since they didn't have to waste time with shit they suck at or hate doing.

> you are willingly engaging with things that don't challenge you and that is a sign of weakness
You're trying to invent rationale for your beliefs that doesn't pan out with reality. Game devs show this "weakness" you're describing all the time whenever they do things like make games with pre-made engines. Most of us don't care because they games often end up being great because the devs were able to focus on the aspect of the game that they are good at and are passionate about doing.

>>724090416
In other words you have no intention of being fair, and only make decisions based on if they're to your benefit.

>>724063232 (OP)
Do whatever you want
You'll still need skills and talent to make something good

>>724090632
I think you need to read the comment chain, you've written this whole comment about something entirely irrelevant to what that anon and I were talking about. He was trying to shittalk by saying if someone puts effort into playing a game, they're bad at games. So I told him that if he plays easy games then he's weak

>>724090721
>You don't want to say that human brains are machines, which they aren't, and that machines are human brains, which they aren't, you are not being fair!

>>724090721
Incorrect, I am doing the opposite. When systems try to claim the rights of humans, that's where things get fucky. See American laws on corporations.

>>724090929
You only do what you do to defend the rights of giant corporations. You're evil.

>>724090985
Entirely untrue, schizo. I think you're just a troll from earlier in the thread, you write the same way and your bait is just as tired.

>>724090929
That's so you can sue companies. Treating corporations as legal entities is to the benefit of the common citizen because it means you can take them to court.

>>724091061
The entirety of contemporary human culture is owned by billion dollar corporations, and you defend that. You're part of the problem, and the world would be better off without people like you.

Corporate cocksucker.

>>724091104
Yeah, corporations pounced on claiming personhood because it was against their interests. obviously.

>>724091149
Oh, you are that guy. Where you intentionally pretend I mean the opposite of what I'm saying. You suck at baiting.

>>724090835
I misread what >>724089226 said (thought he said "making a game"). But what I said still holds true and demonstrates the problem the original first reply's logic. If you wanted a more serious response than "lol you're bad at games" you got it. The answer is that the premise that time and effort didn't go into the game wasn't true to begin with. Game devs can take shortcuts and still put time/effort into the areas of the game they actually care about.

>>724074629
>No one designs anything without reference images and the best way to get reference images is through AI
lmao AIsloppers actually believe this

>>724091305
>I don't mean to defend giant corporations even though IP laws lets them have a stranglehold of all human culture
For fuck sake Disney almost successfully sued another party for using public domain material, and you act like IP is a good thing. Companies should not be able to own IP. Only the creator should for a limited time.

>>724063232 (OP)
After 1,500 YouTube videos, I can confidently say nobody watches my videos created regardless of whether I work on them for months or use ai

The world is 1984 and everything is layers upon layers of shadowbanning

>>724091524
>I want corporations to use AI to replace humans and steal all human creativity!
You're evil.

>>724091639
You want corporations to own every scrap of human culture. People like you need to be killed. You're a threat to humanity.

>>724091481
Why are you still talking to me? I already told you that you were yelling irrelevant bullshit at me and you're even agreeing that you were incorrect. So why continue? This is the equivalent of a madman screaming on a street corner. Fuck off, bum, I don't care about your opinion especially since you can't read.

>>724091305
Evidence? Examples?

The same applies to the US Government as well, it's legally treated as a person so you can sue the government. Why would the government make a law that lets them be sued? Because at the end of the day everyone is human, not everyone is a bad person, and people with foresight saw that it was better for all of these things to be treated equally legally to have a functional judicial system.

People who claim "everyone with more power than me is evil and out to get me!" have never contributed anything positive to the world and never succeed in life because they're too paranoid to work with others.

>>724091716
This.
Fucking Nintendo copyrighted the human concept of fucking goddamn summoning

>>724091782
>Evidence? Evidence?
If you can't see why corporations would want personhood then you're too disingenuous to talk to.

>>724091524
>Every company is Disney therefore IP bad
>Mickey mouse is free for years now and people still didn't do anything interesting with it but IP bad

I am an artist.

>>724091782
Tell that to those dead republican kids trump drowned

>>724091892
that's a patent, not copyright

>>724092032
It's the same shit retard
They own SUMMONING
Anything with SUMMONING in anything is now illegal

>>724063232 (OP)
It's soulless but I understand an indie dev using ai for certain things like voice acting. Fuck voice actors in particular. AI should drive them out of work

>>724091983
Now draw it with the same quality in 100000x100000 pixels , since you are an artist it will be easy for you since resolution doesn't matter for someone who can draw without layers

AI seethers are powerless and can do nothing but cry about it, it's pretty fun to watch.

>>724091983
Nice. Do you feel gay yet?

>>724092256
Neither of you can do this as i have already taken a picture of his artwork at 100000x100000 pixels and I am currently using the picture as my logo

Consider this my cat and detoast letter

>>724092256
>You're not an artist if you can't fulfill this absurd request.
The only thing left is for you to ask me to download more RAM.
>>724092381
I'm feeling a slight urge to massage my butt with a cucumber. I can suppress it for now, but I don't know how much longer...

Just like how an investment from Blackrock isn't objectively them being in charge, the mere association with it taints the whole project

>>724092621
HOLY SHIT SHE'S ABOUT TO BE RUN OVER BY THAT CAR

>>724091741
>irrelevant bullshit
Directly addresses the first reply of the thread so definitely relevant. As you said yourself "read the comment chain".
>Why are you still talking to me?
Because you keep responding back? Your problem is you know you don't have a response to what I'm now saying so you're getting butthurt and making excuses.

>>724092529
? Of course people can
>>724092621
So you can't? What artist can't draw art big enough to make high quality wall paper? You can't? Does it mean you didn't draw it

>>724063232 (OP)
Can I use AI to code a vertical shmup and the art is made by me instead?

>>724092529
Ahaha, so now AI artists are not just "stealing" your work, but copywriting it too?
Lol

>my AI startup idea?
>denuvo for AI to prevent companies from scraping your game

>>724092646
AI puts more power in the hands of creators who may disagree with corporations like Blackrock though.

>>724063232 (OP)
>AI is killing the environment
>AI is using too much water
>AI is killing jobs
>AI is killing artists
>AI is flying over my house
This is why AI is bad

>>724092916
You need to oversee the AI but it makes coding very accessible.

>>724092881
This is just like the time Pinkie Pie raped Rainbow Dash in my MLP fanfic, just like AI is raping game developers. Why do you defend Pinkie Pie?

>>724093163
Because she's best pony.

>>724093064
You post this as if this wasn't true

>>724093064
>>AI is killing the environment
so does india and china by just existing
>>AI is using too much water
almonds are way worse
>>AI is killing jobs
yeah, useless retards are getting replaced by AI, that's a positive
>>AI is killing artists
not really, only ngmi artists are struggling. actual talented artists are still doing just fine
>>AI is flying over my house
IT'S OVER

>>724072465
What about the much more common case where the dev still does everything by himself but he isn't talented nor passionate or he's hindered by the suits?

>>724093112
i have little to no knowledge about coding
i just want to make a big tiddie game

WAKE UP! ANON!! KLONOA IS TRYING TO TRICK YOU!! YOU'RE STILL DREAMING!!

>>724093496
SEX WITH TAILS

>>724093496
oops, wrong thread

>>724093291
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYFO5qPpM_I

>>724093064
>>724093253
Pro AI-user here, I will 100% say AI surveillance cameras and systems like Flock cameras that are worming their way into city municipal contracts only to feed the data to Palintir and other information brokers are a blight on the free society and transforming us all the closer to China. Get those shits off my streets.

>>724093291
and this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTdOHBIppx8

>>724079284
well shit, I have no choice but to release it as Early Access

>>724086729
this but unironically

>>724063232 (OP)
When's it dropping bro?

>>724069886
Dobbo literally thinks anime has ruined his life because an anime inspired (allegedly) movie flopped. i wouldn't put it past him to think that his computer is at fault for him being too poor to buy a decent computer and learn how to use it (instead of using a decade old MacBook because he's a poorfag starving artist who still manages to be obese), especially given how he handles criticism and responsibility

>>724092916
UE5 is a braindead engine and any chatbot will guide you through blueprints, so yeah, you can do it, although i guarantee your big titty art will be worse than what AI churns out right now

>>724063767
any food that's worth eating is created by hand
Even the garbage you get at McBojangles is still made by hand too; fully automated ones have been attempted and just don't function at all

>>724098147
Hahaha, how many chicken nuggies you got in your freezer? Doritos on your shelf?

>>724098147
You have no fucking idea how the veggies in your food are made for well over a century at this point

>>724098221
0
I don't eat garbage (unless it's little debbies oatmeal cream pies)
And chicken nuggies + Doritos still have a lot of humans involved in their production

>>724098551
Dude no one’s talking about shitting out a game with a chat prompt come on man

My opinion is that devs should use AI to create intelligent NPCs in role-playing games.
But they're never going to do this because they just wanna create the 15,463,246th live service shooter.

>>724084354
Nice projections.

>>724063649
I've been using AI in my game for all of those things for over two years and the only complaint my game's getting is that it's too short (from people with 200+ hours playtime). I don't disclose that I use AI btw, no point when I make it so nobody can tell.

Cope and seethe but I can do 6+ people's work now and I don't have to wait for the voice actor to be free, I don't have to wait for the artists to get back to me and iterate for a week to get something that's even half of what I'm imagining, I don't have to wait for the programmer to take his FUCKING meds, the goddamn tranny faggot.

>>724098551
I appreciate your honesty

>>724099272
Who tf is playing your game if they can't detect AI voice acting and AI illustrations?
These guys?

>>724063232 (OP)
ill just say this, the whole AI debate only blew up once AI became good enough to make big money

>>724100037
Because malicious people didn't care about it until they heard that it can make them easy money.

>>724063232 (OP)
Using AI for inane shit like code is fine, once you start outsourcing your creativity to it, like using AI art, music, story, etc, then you don't deserve anything.

>>724063232 (OP)
There's a stigma, so people are less likely to buy it.

>>724100180
this is backwards, the artistry of a video game is the games mechanics and systems

>>724100273
>the artistry of a video game is the games mechanics and systems
Design of game mechanics and systems, not implementation.

>>724100180
Greedy little leftist shit, go back to your hole. You don't deserve a living wage.

Seems like I hit the nail in the head.

>>724098404
They're picked by a child slave in Honduras and then cooked in a kitchen here by a guy from Honduras

>>724099272
Post game

>>724073374
it's too distracting, it could be hot, but you minds will be distracted by the clear ai signs

>>724100350
yeah, but that goes hand in hand with the programming since they are a similar kind of skillset. a single guy might do all the programming and mechanical design of the game, but need art assets. so its a question of ai prompted by that guy or outsourcing to artists by that guy. the ammount of creative input by the dev is the same, so it becomes a question of spending more money to fold in some other peoples creative input. there is an argument for that being an improvement, but its also more expensive. there is also the argument that the dev using ai to generate these assets can afford more feedback iterations to try and approach what was closer to the devs vision than working with another human with their own ideas over more limited iteration.

There is something to be said from a team working on the same project producing a syntheses of their vision. But when we are talking a solo dev picking between ai or fiver assets its different, you are not getting something made by people emotionally invested in the game.

I use AI art for my game since I can't afford to hire a real artist and working with unprofessional "artists" who would do it for free / rev-share is a pain I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemies.

>>724099272
make your fantasy reality bro
ai is free so you should stop pretending you did it and just do it

>>724078571
All AAA games are already using AI and people still buy them.

>>724100823
>But when we are talking a solo dev picking between ai or fiver assets its different
you mean "fewer assets', right?
I do agree with you, but imo if you can't produce assets in required numbers just do an ascii graphics game or smth.
I wish I wasn't a retard and followed my own advice instead of spending time on assets pretending that I have infinite time

>>724100591
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2398410/Hyper_Hentai_Sexy_Sensei/

>>724063232 (OP)
What engine should I use if I have none of the necessary skills, I work with my hands for a living. I'd be willing to learn 3d modeling and some basic animation.

>>724100834
Amateur art makes me want to claw my eyes out. The only thing stopping me from trying my hand at a real game is the fact we still don't have good AI animation tools for cyclical animations, like walk/run cycles and attack animations.

>>724101498
UE5 because of blueprints, they are piss easy to use with ai support. Unity requires C# knowledge.

>>724063232 (OP)
Name an indie game made by AI that was good. Ideas guys think AI will make them a one-man studio when it's not going to do anything.

>>724099867
Over 10,000 people, less than 100,000 people. I'm violating ToS by not reporting my AI use so that's all you're getting. Don't compare the """work""" of aijeets to my game.

Contrary to your implied assumption, I work on it 14+ hours a day and haven't taken a break in over a year. I've been a game dev off and on for over 20 years and it wasn't until AI arrived that I stopped just barely breaking even on every project because I no longer have to hire retards to babysit all day that take 3 weeks to do what I could finish in an afternoon.

>>724100591
Nice try Gabe.

>>724101021
Coping and seething as I suggested, very good. Everyone follow this one's example.

>another sir thread
>400+ posts
>it was made after first one died
GOOD MORNING SAARS

>>724101150
No he means Fiverr. It's a contracting service that connects employers to workers. You say "I need this model optimized and rigged" and get connected with people (in fingerquotes, actually Indians) to do it for you. Micro-contracts. Uber but for labor.

Wait a second. Is this Cris thread?

>>724099272
That seems possible but what AI can you use to generate all aspects of game development? Image AI still has issues, programming AIs are probably in the best place but still don't always write flawless code, and voice AIs still tend to not be emotional and have the wrong inflections.

What you're talking about is a good direction for AI to go in order to promote more solo devs or small teams making successful games, but it doesn't seem like we're there yet.

>>724100834
It seems like presentation matter too much for indie games to rely solely on AI though. Like for a character AI still can't keep all the features consistent across multiple images. How are you using it in place of an artist?

>>724102346
As someone struggling to get into gamedev I'd really appreciate hearing any advice you have, whether it's AI related or otherwise.

>>724063649
This.
I'm not looking at your slop nigga, if I'm gonna look at slop, it'll be MY slop.

>>724099272
>it's another "yeah, I actually DO use AI to make my entire game, and it's like, totally super successful with gamers but no I cannot prove it to you in any way, u trying to get me in trouble or something!??!" episode

seen this rerun dozens of times now, still not a single instance of proof.

As a seasoned dev who hates AI:

I think it's useful for prototyping and NOTHING ELSE. Reverse engineer AI solutions to your problems and suddenly you will no longer need it

And DO NOT use AI to generate any assets critically specific to your game. AI companies will ABSOLUTELY claim your prompts as THEIR intellectual property.

Half of what's fun about art is the elements of human beings making something, and then sending it out into the world, at which point it becomes part of a larger conversation with other humans.
AI art is just inherently unappealing as a thing. An AI will never have an original thought or idea. It will scour a database made of Twitter posts, and serve you up something according to it's programming, which is to say it will avoid anything deemed offensive by some faggot tech CEO.

>>724063232 (OP)
AI is only bad because thirdies have access to it and will use it to churn out infinite amounts of content that is lower in effort than ever seen before. If there was a firewall built around the entirety of india and south east asian countries then I'd have zero problems with AI.

>>724063232 (OP)
You're lazy if you're relying on AI to make aspects of your game for you and you will lose out to people who make human games with their full fledged effort. They will literally feel better to play.

For reference, look at the "procedural level generation" from 2013-2017.

No one looks remembers any of the procedurally generated levels of yore.

Wanna-be smart retards don't understand that it doesn't speed up your workflow.

Just look at "AIPunkStudio" for an example.

Sure, everything that that thing does looks like a "scifi anime girl", but none of it sticks out.

And the last thing you want to be in the game scene is "unremarkable and forgettable". It doesn't sell.

If you can't be half fucked to put effort into your game, I can't be convinced it's good enough to play. In fact, it likely isn't.

>>724105610
Then I make the AI output offensive again with a human touch and then nobody will know.

Hello, here's a goblin 100% handcrafted
what do you think of it?

>>724106280
i have wishlisted this game and anticipate release

>>724106929
>wishlisted
how? it's not on Steam lmao
anyway hopefully I'll be able to release a demo soon, hope you like it!

>>724106118
the ai isn't going to do that, unless you code your own AI.
And, y'know, it's not just a binary of "is offensive"/"is not offensive". You're also deferring to all of the AI's aesthetic tastes. You're defferig to the AI's colour choices. If you ask for an attractive woman, you're deferring to the AI's interpretation of what an attractive woman is. You are not putting you into it.

>>724106280
neat

>>724107339
What everyone calls AI these days is just predictive algorithms, there's no intelligence going on. It's just predicting what comes next based on it's training.

So if you say "I think X, Y, Z are attractive. Describe an attractive woman." It will give you X, Y, Z because that's what it thinks should come next.

>>724107339
Most color palettes today are worse than the AI ones. Today's artists favor hideous colors.

>>724107531
>there's no intelligence going on. It's just predicting what comes next based on it's training.
So, just like the human brain? I guess humans are not intelligent either, then.

>>724107531
it's just spitting out a mixed and matched version of however thousands of images it has been trained on. It's not you making something.

>>724107625
so make your own.

>>724063767
>food analogy
Fat fuck lmao

>>724105362
run you AI locally, do not use a corpo's servers

>>724063232 (OP)
if you don't intrinsically get why it's bad, you'll never get it.

>>724108326
I'll spin the AI wheel until I find something I like.

>>724064606
Uh... no. They did not. What a foolish thing to say.

>>724108429
I think modern art is a mockery to taste itself. That's why I don't see why playing the clown should be looked down upon.

>>724107339
>You're also deferring to all of the AI's aesthetic tastes
Well no, he'd be using his own tastes and sensibilities to instruct the AI what do make. This is the argument I keep making, that's the element of humanity that keeps getting asked for and the portion that isn't omitted by someone who actually has a picture int heir head on what they want to do.

>>724063232 (OP)
You can't make a game even with generative algorithms to do it for you.

>>724063232 (OP)
Here you go

>>724108547
I agree completely. Too many people are obsessed with monetizing off their art that they forgot to be in it for the expression.

>>724108643
that pic is older than most anons browsing /v/

>>724074245
>I doubt you can even tell the non-lazy AI from manmade.
I have never been fooled by AI once in my entire life. Some AI looks better than others, yeah. But no matter how good it is, I will always immediately recognize AI for what it is. Call it a sixth sense

>>724104926
>>724105132
>>724105298
I'll spoonfeed. Figure out what your main goal is. Break it down into smaller tasks. Break that down into smaller tasks. Break that down into smaller tasks. Have no interdependencies. Have the AI do each part one at a time, explaining the greater context but not allowing it to actually work on it. Tiny steps so it can't fuck up.

AI is not a cheat code and the people who treat it like one are brown or spiritually brown. You need to have at least a basic level of competence and you have to be prepared to iterate - JUST LIKE IN NORMAL FUCKING DEVELOPMENT. You're removing the retard human element and replacing it with a retard AI element. You still need to wrangle the tard, there's just a 1-minute turnaround instead of 1-week turnaround.

If this is super basic to you then you're fine already, get started. Unfortunately like 99% of the world thinks AI is the Star Trek computer and doesn't understand when shit breaks after they say "program and design my entire game for me".

I let AI write code blocks for me but I'll be damned if I don't double check every single line

Sometimes the blocks it writes are pretty smart, better than anything I could come up with. But other times they're redundant as fuck.

>>724063232 (OP)
Observe neophyte.

If you use AI assets raw, they will seem cheap-looking and incoherent.
If you modify and correct your AI assets, you will spend a lot of time fixing work that you could have done correctly the first time and developed the skills to manipulate and modify quickly; as well as building foundational knowledge that will help you make more in the future.
If you do either-- especially if you used a LORA to create a more consistent style-- you are opening yourself up to the consequences of pending litigation over training models developed off of copyrighted works.

To wit: Nothing is stopping you from using AI if you want your game to look cheap, to work hard for a slightly less cheap look, to bias your customer-base against your work before it's even finished, to learn and build nothing and then cry on /v/ later that no one really understands the true vision of the game you had copilot hallucinate up for you because reading "intro to programming" and opening blender was too fucking hard.

>>724108992
SEE? THIS GUY. THIS GUY FUCKING GETS IT.

>>724063232 (OP)
It's inconsistent and riddled with errors that will take you longer to learn how to fix than it would have to just learn to do it yourself correctly.

>AI pulls from known libraries
>AI coding is just pulling from existing knowledge
>Coding isn't owned by anyone.
>All AI does is skip the forum browsing and pulls that information to the forefront.

>AI Art is a completely different thing because it's pulling from existing artists
>So using AI for assets is technically illegal

>Use AI for coding language and trouble shooting and use AI art for placeholders to represent what you want the end product to look like until you can actually draw or pay for those assets to be created. Away to use AI without infringing on anyone's rights.

>NO AI IS STILL BAD BECAUSE THINK OF THE ENVIRONMENT

>>724108880
At least for me the programming part isn't the problem, it's the other assets. How do you get an AI to generate a character consistently for instance? Or generate an animation?

>>724108992
This is smart, but it seems like for indie dev the coding is the least important part. Games like Undertale and Dungeons of Fear and Hunger are coded like crap but their presentations made them successful.

>>724109064
Average "AI can't even draw hands lmao" poster

>>724063232 (OP)
even if you don't use AI in your indie game people will just assume you used AI anyway, so you may as well use it. AI is already standard practice in the industry and realistically nobody but furry artists give a shit about the statement you may be trying to make

>>724109086
AI is just google.

>>724108443
you learned nothing. You achieved nothing. You produced nothing of value.

>>724063232 (OP)
I have no ethical issue with people using AI in their games my problem is simply that every project I've ever seen which made much use of AI has been complete dogshit even compared to the chicken scratch shit I've seen one man indie teams put out for lack of resources

>>724108643
You tell the AI "dude, make a tower with twelve windows", but there are millions of interpretations of what that looks like, and it will never produce quite the same result as if you had just made it yourself.
Oftentimes in art you don't even really know what you want until you've tried a few things. You discover the work through experimentation. AIcels will never get this. They're addicted to instant gratification.

>>724109161
>even if you don't use AI in your indie game people will just assume you used AI anyway
this. The sheer number of
>sorry buddy, you should have made your artstyle less AI-like
is all I needed to appreciate how just the notion alone turns peoples' brains off.

>>724109162
>>724108992
I have always said that AI is a tool to make competent people more competent. If you try to use it to replace, you won't know what's wrong or how to fix it. It's not really useful when it's cutting out the middle man. It's an assistant.

When I was trying to get into Blender I knew how to use modelling but instead of trying to browse forums and documentation for the specific thing I was trying to do, I could just ask Deepseek and saved a lot of time doing it. Eventually that knowledge became ingrained and second nature.

>>724109250
>nooo you have to read the color theory book
don't want to buy
>then pirate it
I'll just pirate everyone's art instead
>stop, you can't do that!

>>724109491
look at the world around you and try to copy the things you see. Try to figure out how light works.

If you want to know what the state of AI games will look like in the real industry just go look at AI generated porn games. Absolutely no one took advantage of the AI to make a better game by saving on time and resources. Every title is inexplicably far more lazy, derivative and empty compared to everything it's competing beside.

>>724109364
>but there are millions of interpretations of what that looks like, and it will never produce quite the same result as if you had just made it yourself.
yes, this is where regenning and rewriting your prompt come in
>gen
>oh, I actually wanted the building to be a queen anne style building
>gen
>hm, I wanted the windows to be white and the building masonry
So I went from
>tower with twelve windows
to
>[1 subject], [Queen Anne] tower building, [red brick], 12 windows on face.
Sound familiar?
>you don't even really know what you want until you've tried a few things. You discover the work through experimentation.

>>724109086
>AI does ____ but really shitty
Ftfy

>>724109441
It is no different than getting an art job after learning from pirated software.

>>724109570
This is true. Personally I envision a game where all the visual and audio assets are made, mechanics are established, and the NPC dialog is managed by an LLM that has guardrails to speak relevantly in response to you but also the objective/ task occurring. Imagine an Animal Crossing where you catch a fish and the neighbor looks at you and says "heh, nice Speckled Carp,m but I caught a bigger one yesterday! Come see it!" and they proceed to invite you inside to see a carp that the game spawned on his table from the conversation.
Or shit, on a lower scale how about a porn game where the NPC foreplays with you in response to your words, you might be playing a vanilla sexual experience but the dialogue you two have with each other could further immerse the player and possibly play into specific kinks in the chat as the game progresses.

>>724063232 (OP)
I don't give a shit, just fucking do it! You all talk this big talk with nothing to show for it besides some shit ass WEG.

>>724109769
it's not the same as doing it. You wont consider half of the details unless you explicitly have to render them, and think about how they work.

>>724109570
but that's the thing AI is going to be so ubiquitous that it will be in everything from the shittiest of gay diaperfur BDSM puppyplay porn to the greatest AAA titles.

there will come a day when you completely fall in love with a game mostly made by AI, and when you learn it was made by AI you'll stop caring. that's why i think arguments over AI are pointless. anti-AI people will be assimilated eventually so it's all just performative virtue signaling for social media which is gay as hell

>>724109843
AI is not 100% accurate. Neither are humans.
Holding it up to that high of a standard especially when it's learning from humans is really fucking stupid.

>>724110190
>You wont consider half of the details unless you explicitly have to render them
maybe that's the reason I wanted to use AI, to flesh out an idea I have or to show me how those gaps can be filled in. Will you then say only getting it to make what I want and being blase about the rest disqualifies it from being my vision and expression realized?

>>724110235
I've seen this take before but I'm just not sure it's true. Art and music AI have developed very nicely but writing AI has been around for well over a decade and its progression absolutely flat-lined at some point without ever reaching a point where it was competent. People just decided it wasn't worth it anymore and then all the money in it dried up.

The truth is that AI development, like most developments, is driven by money. Right now the industry is being treated as a start up where everyone is simply willing to lose money on it, but if it doesn't prove efficient while costs on it continue to rise up, it'll simply be left alone in the long run. AI is driven by potential and not by practice ultimately, and potential technologies are always volatile.

Why not? Plenty of crap made by man gets popular.

>>724110161
They'd rather debate theoreticals on here and Twitter than actually try to make a game

>>724110235
I'd still like it more if a person made it though.

>>724110439
>I need to draw a bat
>wait, what does a bat, actually look like?
>spend the rest of the day looking at pictures of bats, and watching timelapse videos and things to try to get a sense of how exactly they move when they fly
>I have now learned things, and when I draw a bat it is uniquely mine. It is born of my observations of nature
You cuck yourself out of this process by using AI. The AI just does it.

>>724109559
I'm working with a 64 color palette and shitting out MS paint style monstrosities. I'm not trying to make realistic things.

Life drawing is for posers and nerds. I'm a programmer.

>>724110468
The problem that exists with AI development is that AI by its very nature is strictly derivative. Assuming the bubble doesn't implode with copyright litigation, at a certain point the beast so far up eating its own tail it has to swallow its own head to keep on going.

Permanence and continuity remain elusive to it, memory and recall remain impossible; it is a machine that reproduces complex patterns but can produce nothing spontaneous or original.

It makes prototyping a snap, people swear by it as a coding assistant (though the math has it that it makes you worse at coding, that my not always be the case) and there are a number of pieces of busywork that it could simplify and speed up incredibly (I don't really want to paint six kinds of tileable concrete texture to blend into an environment, asking the robot to hallucinate white noise, stone dust and rust spots is just going to be easier) but overall its a wobbly set of crutches-- if you can stand on your own you'll be okay, but if you're trusting them to carry you you're going to wind up flat on your face.

>>724110805
so embrace your shit art. It will have more charm.

>>724063232 (OP)
Because it's no good.

I'm going to make
LISA: The Needful
and no one can stop me!

>>724110896
My art is an interpretation of AI art. ;)

>>724063649
Ai taking time and effort, I have degree in computer science with AI specialization and AI is very complicating, you need more than a good prompt I have spent many hours fine tuning AI models

>>724063232 (OP)
but is it worth the angry mob?

>>724111393
just tell them it's not AI. it's not like they can tell the difference

>>724063826
I really would like to see who buys them someone surely has to otherwise they'd stop making them

>I can cycle through monsters for my RPG and just prompt everything I want
>then when I have what I want I actually draw them all with my shitty style

How is this bad exactly? I don't need to waste time drawing things I don't like anymore.

>>724063232 (OP)
>Know how to code
>Be completely unable to draw shit or compose music
>Have no money
>B-but you shouldn't use AI dood!!!!
Why not, tho?

>>724112251
No one's stopping you

>>724112251
for your own good, trust me

>>724063649
Fippy Bippy and Indians BTFO

>>724063232 (OP)
Imo, on the development side, its easier, but it takes out a lot of the fun and problem solving.

>>724112581
I'd gladly skip the fun of trying to get a 5060 to work with a FX motherboard on a Linux machine. If you enjoy that kind of troubleshooting more power to you.

>>724063232 (OP)
agreed. AI is like a calculator for doing math, just for different fields. Might as well use a tool that is available and gets the job done

>>724063232 (OP)
>"no one can give an objective reason for why this is bad."
>everyone gives objective reasons for why the thing is bad
>*hands over ears* "LALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!!!"

>>724113159
>objective
they're all subjective

>>724063232 (OP)
Do it, faggot.

All these AI shitters keep talking about how easy it is to make a videogame with AI. How easy it is to put together and make money off it. Well, go ahead and do it. Put that $20 a month subscription to use. Act like that money is an "investment" and not just you sucking down corporate cock like it's Elon Musk.