Thread 725340261

How big of a success would a Final Fantasy XVI that embraced the staples of the franchise have been? Will Square-Enix learn the right lessons from this?

>>725340261 (OP)
FFXVI is likely at minimum 4M now, which is still 3x Rebirth's sales.

I liked both games
I do not want the people at SE to try and reinvent ATB again after FFXIII
>345 PM in Melbourne

FF has been nothing but mediocre games for about 19 years, XVI embraced the staples of the franchise by being an inoffensive trite moviegame that poorly aped a title that was popular at the time of its conception (DMCV)
the problem with the series is that the games used to be developed in such rapid succession that the devs had no issues simply changing how the numbers interacted, but after they went too far with FFXII and it failed, they went to spending years at a time trying to "fix" everything they did wrong instead of ever just going back to what they had made in the first place and updating it.

>>725340261 (OP)
It's not even that E33 had turn-based combat or a map like in Japanese RPGs of your childhood. It was simply a good, competent game with a better-written story, more engaging exploration, more engaging character progression and development, and a combat system that felt more alive than XVI's one. The latter is a distinct point of humiliation for XVI, as it's an action game that was marketed as a crazy action kino experience a la DMC or Bayonetta.

>>725340261 (OP)
>Will Square-Enix learn the right lessons from this?
no

why do you guys pretend that e33 is the game to copy when it's obviously bg3?

>>725342240
BG3 has shit combat and story, people only like it as a gay dating sim

>>725342240
I don't think any Japanese studio could pull off a BG3. For some reason japs don't do CRPGs.
I'd actually be totally down for a fucking FF CRPG especially given that FF1 was basically a D&D clone.

>>725342240
why should anyone copy BG3 over DOS2, retardbro?

They managed to use marketing to convince 3 million people to buy XVI but word of mouth about how dogshit the game really is stopped it from selling any further even after the PC port.

XVI is just pure trash, it's really that simple.

>>725342240
While both games are noticeably better than XVI, neither should be copied. It's better for SE to continue develop Rebirth formula, remove the last vestiges of Ubisoft's design, and use it as a blueprint for future games.

>>725342240
Because BG3 is a CRPG, it's a completely different genre to what FF has ever been.
Before you say "Yeah but FF games changed genres from Turnbased to Action" I would say that is the fundamental problem they changed their genre and since then have been on a massive downward trend to the point now they're going through mass firings.

Expedition 33 is what FF16 should have been.
It had the music, the party system, the customisation in weapons and gear, the cosmetic customisation, the story, it even had the main voice actor from FF16.
It had camps which took the place of Inns, and magic weaknesses and affinities.
All things FF16 did not have or were incredibly basic in implementation.

>>725340261 (OP)
I'd rather play peak high fantasy kino than parryslop desu

Turn based versus action is a false dichotomy. FFXVI was shit for 99 reasons. The combat wasn't one of them.

>>725342570
My biggest complaints about FF16 is that they completely fucked up by forcing you to only play Normal difficulty and do not let you play on anything harder until AFTER you finish the game.
For me this completely killed the game because Normal just gets too easy and then you basically solve the combat only halfway through the game.
The side quests were also fucking boring and get painful to do when there's SO MUCH of it.

That game needed better balancing or just let you fucking play on hard and let you beat your head against the wall with hard fights stop fucking stopping me from playing on hard you fucking faggots.

>>725342240
FF already has a CRPG, it's called FFXII and it's one of the best ones.

>>725342762
Dismissing the combat reason in a Final Fantasy game tells me you don't understand FF games, the nostalgia for them and what the fanbase expect.
I dare say your name is YoshiP.

>>725341992
>but after they went too far with FFXII and it failed
What happened?

>>725340261 (OP)
We already have Job system Turn-Based FF in the Bravely Default series (and SoP).
Final Fantasy mainline is for innovation.

>>725342790
This is what happens when they pick the wrong inspiration for their game (DMC). And the difficulty isn't even the main problem. The game is everything that could possibly go wrong in a modern FF. It's too insulting to just laugh it off.

>>725341585
>>725343031
Based and true

>>725343065
I didn't hate FF16 like I hated FF15 but the negatives of it drags it into mid territory.

>>725342762
FFXVI was shit for 99 reasons, I agree, but combat was one of them.

>>725343065
It's the essence of Final Fantasy.
Hell of a lot better than copying Ubisoft games

>>725343031
Bravely Default sucks and there's nothing innovative about FFXVI.

>>725343065
They picked dmc for the inspiration of the combat and then made it piss easy even on the hardest difficulty, it was a joke. I don't think I died a single time in the main game and it wasn't until the dlc that I died twice fighting in the Rising Tide DLC against Leviathan.

>>725343234
retard

>>725342190
The funniest thing about this, Even IF ai does a better job than humans and points out game issues do you really think the companies are going to follow up and fix those issues the ai detects. they don't even listen to QA testers now

>>725340261 (OP)
What are the staples of Final Fantasy? Being interrupted every five seconds for a random battle against the same enemy you have already fought 30 times but have to fight again exactly the same way because skipping it would leave you underpowered for the upcoming boss fight?

>>725343298
post your Ultimaniac and Kairos clears senpai

>>725343201
The essence of Final Fantasy is being a good RPG game which is something XVI just isn't. The ironic part is that Rebirth came out and proved they can balance both action and RPG elements just fine. XVI just chose not to.

>>725342960
XII was already plagued with significant production issues (the original director ended up having a breakdown and left the company altogether), and the conflict that japanese devs had with adapting to HD development is pretty well-documented. There's also a semi-notorious incident where a "fan" screeched about not caring about new FF and wanting to know when SE was remaking FF7 at a western release event. Basically everything after XII was fucked because the side teams fell apart, the developers got spiteful that they couldn't just make whatever they wanted, and actually making assets for PS3 hardware was a nightmare compared to just wrapping baked textures.
They put all their eggs in a basket with the guy who had made FFX and came to the conclusion that they should make something that was like FF7 but better.
It wasn't, and it killed the chances of FF remaining turn based.

>>725342190
>QA
isn't that too subjective pf a field to leave in the hands of AI?

>>725343031
DMC for babies and blatant GoW ripoffs are not innovation.
Also first 9 games in the series are not so different from each other. Experience playing IV will help you understand how to play IX.

I want to see Final Fantasy return to it's "roots" but go really hard on automation. Let me program a sequence of commands for each given random encounter in an area. Let the series bring something new to the table and give back to the genre, something it hasn't done in ages.

>>725343392
no FF games are good rpgs, they are ok at best wizardry experiments

>>725343342
>IF ai does a better job than humans

Would love to see it.

>>725343359
>Main game was too easy
>Retard justifies this by saying to post endgame dlc times for an optional dungeon run
You're a retard.

>doesn't play the hard content
>wtf why is this game so ez??

go back to bright fantastical environments and turn based combat (add some twists or whatever to make it more interesting but TURN BASED) and watch your sales skyrocket

>>725343495
Now this is supreme shitposting. Go back to your action slop if you don't even know what an RPG is.

>>725340261 (OP)
>How big of a success would a Final Fantasy XVI that embraced the staples of the franchise have been?
FF never had QTE shit in the gameplay you fucking moron.

>>725343552
You didn't play the game.

>>725343502
This retarded bot posts the same thing in every thread. Probably some version of Barry for XVI. By the way, to complete Ultimaniac, you need to complete the game twice! TWO! TIMES! I hope XVI was the last big CS3 game.

>>725343558
FF games are not RPGs. JRPGs in general have a very limited perception of what an RPG is, and FF titles are terrible at limiting players in a meaningful way- they are almost entirely super casual checklist games where you can never miss anything significant, you can never make meaningful choices, and you can never make truly poor decisions

Reminder

>>725343608
literally every game after 6 besides 9 has at least one character with QTEs in their limit break lmao

>>725343065
If they wanted to do J-action like DMC they should've unironically looked at Lighting Returns which gets pretty fucking close to that while still be an RPG.
https://youtu.be/IvDozajvucQ?si=0Qjieu_pUnVhoKAz

>>725343835
XIII-3 is an awful game though. They didn't want to repeat that disaster.

FF has always had the imposter syndrome after it got popular. the devs don't know what people like about the series so they always try one of two things - nostalgia baiting by referencing stuff from previous titles and making the gameplay more approachable for a wider audience (read: trying to kill the turn based element). the further we're removed from the golden age of the series, the more likely is that those two factors will hold the series back.

>FF never had QTE shit in the gameplay you fucking moron.
Wow, what a retard.

>>725343768
*Including VI - Sabin exists.

>>725343658
>Complain that the main game was too easy
>"So in fact to make the game as hard as you can you need to unlock Hard mode first after completing Normal mode, and then after completing Hardmode you unlock the hardest difficulty and now post your clears after you've cleared those hardest arcade stages that the game turns into on the hardest difficulty mode which doesn't change game mechanics or combat but only makes them far more tanky.

Tell me you've never played Devil May Cry 5 without telling me you've never played DMCV if you think enemies having no change to their mechanics but simply being more tanky is justifiable for harder content, not only that but needing to complete the game twice in order to unlock that difficulty mode as even 'Hard' mode is locked behind completing the entire main story mode once.
Absolutely fucking retarded and it's people like you who defend these decisions allow the games to get a free pass into enshitification.

>>725343835
>>725343878
they brought this combat back in ff7 rebirth but the 3 costumes are instead 3 characters

>>725343886
to be fair I think it's easier to read XII and XIII as unintentionally sabotaging turn based gameplay in favor of letting ebin story gamers just stroll through everything then taking the complaints against those titles as evidence that they needed to do something completely different

>>725343878
Lighting Returns is actually pretty good combat wise but the XIII "series" was total poison in marketing.
Everyone knew XIII sucked so why would they buy the sequels that are directly tied to it?

>>725343539
you shouldn't need to beat the game twice for it to start being difficult

>>725343342
Good point.

>>725343539
'Hard mode' is locked behind having to complete the entire game. That's 40-60 hours of game you have to complete to unlock 'Hard mode'. Why? I'll tell you why, it was a cynical business decision to try and artificially make the game replayable.

XVI just made me sad. The godawful story even more than the gameplay, just utterly wasted the world setting and characters.

>>725343691
Being an RPG means the game has mechanics that let you take advantage of battles in intelligent ways, like elemental weaknesses, instead of just relying on reflexes to git gud. Every past FF had that, even XV. XVI has none of it. The game doesn't even have magic stats, no party members, no way to create your own unique build. You play it like any generic, braindead action game. It's the bare minimum of what you could call an RPG, which is why meme games like E33 outshined it in the first place.

I don't know why I'm even replying to this post, it's obvious shitposting. Why would you evem play FF if you don't care about RPGs?

>>725340261 (OP)
Buy the XVI Lore Book so we can get XVI Final Mix for Switch 2 with playable party members

>>725344001
they tried to kill FFXI to make people buy XIV 1.0 (or 4.4 as some may remember), which collapsed a ton of other projects when the company had to go full hands-on-deck with it. XIII served as an easy source of assets to make vaguely similar games while improving on consumer complaints, but the games being made in tandem with it suffered a bit

>>725343610
of course I didn't, it looks like shit

>>725340261 (OP)
The creators don't have a visions for their games anymore, all they do is chase trends. This time it was action-RPGs and Game of Thrones, next time it'll be E33 with a world inspired by Witcher or something and it won't be any less unoriginal.

>>725343835
LR is much more challenging and well balanced than XVI, that's true, and so the combat system feels real and requires at least a little learning. In XVI, the entire game can be completed by simply mashing square square.

>>725344201
actual bot reply, amazing. FF games are not RPGs and never have been, RPGs are about complex numerical interactions, not rock paper scissors nonsense for mentally stunted babies. Keep replying to me assuming I'm saying anything remotely positive about XVI instead of decrying the brand itself for being casual shite though you fucking retard

>>725343342
so.... games are going to be shit forever and just companiess seeing how much they can squeeze?

>>725344246
>the entire game can be completed by simply mashing square square.
that's not true, the problem with FF16 is that eventually you find the most optimal sequence to pull off in every fight and you can't really deviate from that because you basically solved the game.

It's basically just constantly doing your MMO rotation for every fight at that point.

i used to think that anons who said this franchise ended with squaresoft were tryhard gatekeepers, but they were 100% correct.

>>725343835
>sequel
>mainline
not a real ff game

>>725344217
you X fags are the worst
Buy new Final Fantasy games and play them

>>725343878
LR really is pure trash

>>725343552
>>725343610
>>725344217
FFXVI doesn't look bad but it's being held back SO badly by the choice to unconnected corridor setpieces that don't actually show you any of the cool shit you wanted to see except for 2 missions at most. If it were the traditional type of FF or godforbid a Soulslike the excellent environment design could actually be explored

>>725344373
They were right, Sakaguchi was an expert tard wrangler and knew how to delegate talent into the right places. Since his firing Square Enix which took over what he had built have never been able to get a Sakaguchi again to tard wrangle SE.

>>725344378
Still better than XVI.

>>725344371
The same could be said for XV. I'm still waiting for someone to prove that you can kill an Elder Coeurl with just one button.

>>725340261 (OP)
It's the Lune difference.

>>725344392
i have and they all are at best a 6/10 (xii) and at worse a 3/10 (the rest). i'm tired of pissing away money to the retarded whims of square-enix.

>>725340261 (OP)
one game is 70 bucks and the other is 40

>>725344587
They are both $50

>>725344623
One game was locked on the PS5 for a year and a half and was $70. The other was a multiplatform release at $40.

>>725344623
I was charged $70 for ffxvi day 1 and it's the last time i'm spending $70 on vidya until the new 3d zelda drops.
Shit still pisses me off two years later.

>>725343446
If it's just for finding bugs, not as much as people think.
The bulk of QA is grunt work. Play a level over and over again while running into every piece of geometry, using every available item, using every weapon to kill every killable thing, over and over.
AI could tackle a lot of that and file bug reports and human QA testers can focus on things like balance and, you know, if the game is fun.

>>725344563
15 itself was too automated with their button holding shit which made you feel like you were barely playing the game.
16 ends up with the player eventually finding an optimal rotation that makes combat just feels like you're automating your execution.
It's sort of similar problems.

FF7 Remake and Rebirth actually solve both of those issues and feels like a proper action and real RPG. I know people have an issue with other things in that game but in terms of action and RPG it's about the best Square Enix has been able to pull off.

>>725344680
Square decided to jump ship from Sony as soon as Rebirth came out, which really says a lot about how exclusivity deals affect sales.

XVI is a barren, no-mans-land, and I want to fucking emphasize, that the decision to make the game a corridor with empty MMO fields and 20 hours of cutscenes was not dictated by engine or any other development problems, like in the case of XV, it was a conscious choice of retards who made this interactive movie. We even know they wanted to add more cutscenes to the game, this was stated in one of the interviews.

>>725340261 (OP)
Because turn-based audience never went away. Squeenix simply thinks they need to make everything action to reach that mythical MAINSTREAM audience. Essentially, they want AAA figures but they're producing JRPGs which makes it an impossible task.

>>725344804
i don't like 16 stagger bars but it is definitely not a game that pushes you into optimization. it drip feeds you interesting new activities throughout the game and forces you to pick loadouts at the cost of something else. if the player refused to try different abilities, that isn't the game's fault, it's theirs.

>>725340261 (OP)
XVI could've been saved if
>it had job swapping on top of primal skills
>it had a few secret and postgame challenge dungeons
>secret bosses (seriously, no gilgamesh?)
>the combat wasn't full of QTE shit

>>725344804
Both XV and XVI are like two sides of the same coin, their flaws are complete opposites of each other. Which is why you never find someone who likes both XV and XVI, but hating both games is common from what I've seen.

>>725343835
I still have mixed feelings about XIII trilogy, but at least it evoked some emotion in me back in the day. XVI is so aggressively dull and mid that it evokes no emotion at all.

>>725340261 (OP)
Square Enix won’t learn shit, they keep making the wrong decisions over and over. It’s like the whole company is suffering from monkey-paw.

>>725345009
You didn't play it

>>725341585
>>725343031
Innovate into mediocrity lmao

>>725344568
dogshit has 0 porn kek

>>725344804
remake is so shit I couldn't play it for more than 5 hours, which is not a problem I had with any actual mainline FFs, and it is hot dogshit compared to KH1 in both of those departments

>>725344883
They took FF14, upscaled the graphics and allowed you to control the Summons for the boss fights. The basic design of FF16 is so similar to FF14 from map design, to quest design, to story pacing, to gear, to everything.
Yes the game is very pretty graphically speaking but even that they fucked up because after you defeat Bahamut the rest of the game is covered in a clouded pink overcast which fucks up the point of it being a graphically impressive game because everything looks washed out.

>>725345006
I am biased against 15 but 16 is just mediocre
13, 15, and 16 all have flaws that compliment each other which should further show you how FUCKED Squares development is and how they DONT FUCKING LEARN

>>725344926
>Essentially, they want AAA figures but they're producing JRPGs which makes it an impossible task.
this. it's the answer behind their self-destructive behavior.

>>725344926
they got 9 million sales out of Nier Automata and never figured out that it had almost nothing to do with how that game played while simultaneously trying to recreate its success by just making platinum-like action games

>>725340261 (OP)
transition to 3d didn't help

>>725345263
we would be living in a utopia if they made platinum esque action games. imagine if ff16 had as many weapons as bayo 3 and as much customization as astral chain

>>725345095
>games quality is decided how much ai-generated blacked porn it has

>>725340261 (OP)
Sadly, final fantasy is becoming sonic tier, in that with each release the rabid fanbase INSISTS that this one is the good one, then a few months later everyone forgets it and says it's shit. The only people who buy it now are the diehards, and the bad reputation of the franchise is reaching a point that is beyond repair. Actually, final fantasy might even be worse off that sonic since at least sonic has the autistic/child appeal, so they still groom in a few new fans every now and then.

>>725345460
emphasis goes on trying there, anon
they put the dullest guy who ever worked on their MMO in charge of one guy who made one action game character and it seems like they never communicated with each other about how playing the game should actually feel

>>725345546
Just kill the series, E33 can replace it

>>725340261 (OP)
Everything ends, anon.

>>725345667
Fuck off. Quit trying to start shit. You've been at ot all night

>>725345087
XIII trilogy was a clusterfuck, but at least it was emotionally stupid, felt sincere and unique. I remember the scene where Serah yelled at some huge monster and defeated it that way because her tantrums reached monster's creator in another timeline in the past and scared him into not making it. It was really dumb, but at least it was fun and original.

XVI, on the other hand, spoke of the most obvious things with such a serious face that listening to the story was like listening to a retarded person perched on a podium, pompously strutting like a wannabe smart about the most obvious truisms in this world. Not only is everything they tell you obvious, but it's also all very verbose, filled with fluff, with a dreary rush through the most pathetic quests in the series, and other dull activities. It's as if the game's creators were tasked with inventing the most dormitive adventure in history.

>>725343610
>a desaturated field of flowers
>what could have been a neat waterfall environment but EMPTY SAND
>a horse guy standing on barren mossy rock environment
>IS THAT GENERIC ANIME GIRL HOLDING A HECKIN PUPPER???
Was this supposed to defend 16?

>>725345004
They should’ve dropped Ultima and made Barnabas the actual antagonist

>>725345773
>listening to a retarded person perched on a podium
We didn't ask for your biography, anon

>>725345769
FF has been dead for over two decades, every FF game developed by SE in that time has sucked complete ass, especially the shitty 7 remake games

>>725343610
>You didn't play the game
>Posts a 3x3 where every single frame is in fact a cutscene and not gameplay
You didn't play the game either.

>>725345808
>a horse guy
Look I'm not that guy but can you at least pretend to know anything about Final Fantasy?

>>725345861
Even my biography is still better than XVI.

I liked XVI, it was a decent time. And that's more than I can say for XII, XIII, XIII-2, LR, and XV

>>725345970
People can complain about visuals without playing the game, anon

>>725343610
I did and he's right, the game's art style is generic and bland as fuck

>>725345808
Only underaged posters are defending XVI it's the only mainline FF they've ever played. Can you blame them?

The games got too big and lost focus. While the series kept innovating, SE lost their ability to produce a "Final Fantasy" game up to their own standards.
There is a reason why 20 people could make a whole splendid game while SE probably had 20 people around the year tweaking some graphical things.

I liked XVI, XIV, XII, XI and I-X
They're all really good games.

>>725345829
>Ultima
Unironically the worst FF villain. Dude is just a shitty Zanza.

>>725345898
XVI is not a game, it is a fucking interactive movie. 20 hours of cutscenes for an average playthrough of 30-35 hours.

>>725346005
I played all of them.

>>725343742
>japanese businessman lies and flatters to defend his status
wow.... never would've guessed

>>725342790
>My biggest complaints about FF16 is that they completely fucked up by forcing you to only play Normal difficulty and do not let you play on anything harder until AFTER you finish the game.
I'll never for the life of me understand why developers do this.

>>725345901
That's Odin? I figured it was a generic evil knight man. It's worse than I thought.

>>725345829
barnabas was based. that arc was the only time i was actively engaged in the story.
i get the idea with ultima but their insistence on having 14 different main plotlines that all get aborted really wore thin. he could've worked if the game was about him from early on

>>725342240
CRPGs have a huge barrier to entry, and are not the style of games Square Enix should want to copy anyway. While it is not clear to me why Square Enix cannot flood the market with a bunch of E33-likes, Unreal Engine slop will probably be cheaper and easier to make than their HD-2D titles and sell more anyway.

>>725346109
>bloom out the ass vs perfect HDR
XV is more blown out than your mom's asshole

>>725340261 (OP)
final fantasy is trying to appeal to western people by pandering to them, and in doing so are alienating them. japanese devs are retarded

>>725346109
it's sad because you can make an argument that 15 looks better than 16 does

>>725346142
I'm guessing they want to make it retard-proof, nobody can accidentally pick the harder option or pick it out of pride and then get filtered, they wanna make sure people play the game beyond the 2 hour refund period.

>>725340261 (OP)
FFXVI is 10/10.
e33 is normieslop ripping off Mario RPG.

Ffxiv is my favourite final fantasy game. I bought both ffxiv and e33 at launch, I still haven't played rebirth.

>>725345667
>E33 can replace it
You're not getting a new game in the next 10 years no matter how much you seethe at Final Fantasy.

>>725346275
whatever you say chatbot

>>725346290
You can't even get the number right so I doubt it

>>725340261 (OP)
Terrible. SE should be ashamed. Fucking action slop bro. Fuck man

FF16 was fun with some pacing issues and could benefit from copying Kingdom Heart's companion system. The hate it gets is really fucking weird.

>>725346290
This is a FF16 and Expedition 33 thread, why are you talking about FF14?

>>725346329
Sadly. As much as people seethe at Sqeenix for their games they're big enough to release shit on regular basis. It's questionable when and what is Sandfall releasing their next game.

>>725346275
How funny that you mention Mario RPG, because that game also outsold XVI if you combine the remake's sales. Actually, scratch that, it's very likely the remake alone has already outsold XVI.

>>725346251
it's because the game is by mmo devs who think normal mode = hours of playtime, hard mode = more hours of playtime
they didn't realize that we're not paying a sub fee

Square Enix would have gone out of business by now if not for people buying the figures and merch,

microsoft decided not to buy them cause they know the fanbase would he outraged if a us company bought them

>>725340261 (OP)
Maybe these retards can look at Ninja Gaiden 4's sales numbers and wake up and smell the coffee. Action games aren't big anymore unless From Slop is making it. They should go back to catering to rpg people

>>725343610
Is there a loli Jill sexo mod? If so I will play your game.

>>725346329
lmao there will be a succesor to e33 in the next 4 years, i guarantee it.

besides ff7 shart 3 remake there likely won't be another mainline ff title until the 2030's with how poorly 16 performed.

the spirit, creativity and kino nature of FF died with squaresoft at ffx-2, just accept it.

>>725345773
idk why that other guy is so mean to you I feel the same way

>>725346414
>shallow combat
>few enemy mechanics that don’t boil down to just dodging attacks with an extremely generous dodge window
>little build potential due to how few customization options there are
>zero worthwhile exploration with invisible walls everywhere. Can’t even jump on things in a town.
>corridor dungeons that are aesthetically different but functionally identical to one another, with zero level interaction aside from occasionally pulling a lever or opening a door
>the dullest side quests ever implemented into a video game
>boring dull characters. the handful that are good like cid stand out because of how monumentally better they are compared to the other 98% of the cast
>generic “epic” orchestral soundtrack. only a handful of tracks can be classified as bangers
>graphic fidelity is very high, but art style is incredibly uninspired

There's nothing weird about a shitty game getting shit on.

Stranger of paradise is more of a final fantasy game than 16 is
It's even an rpg, too

I liked Stranger of Paradise but I enjoyed FFXVI even more.

>>725346704
This

Quick run down on why FF16 didn't sell on the FF fanbase.
You can also see some of these features that were missing in FF16 were present in Exp 33 and that's part reason why the older FF fanbase did buy into that game.

>>725346802
All had significant roles in the story

>>725346802
i forgot about 2 of those characters and they were 2 of the best characters in the game
thanks for having multiple extended plotlines about literal whores though maehiro

>>725346586
>lmao there will be a succesor to e33 in the next 4 years
nope, cope and rope.
>there likely won't be another mainline ff title until the 2030's with how poorly 16 performed.
That's funny considering It's still making money on merch and excrement 33 has to give all the money they made to the publsiher.

>>725346704
SoP is basically the perfect final fantasy action game
so of course they'll never make anything like it again

>>725346918
Stop shilling your flopshit.

>>725346915
Expedition 33 is making so much money for their team they don't know what to do with it, meanwhile SE are having to go through rounds of mass layoffs and firings because they're so deep in the hole. They just fired their entire UK branch, EU branch and NA branch.
Doesn't exactly sound like the kind of thing a company with profitable games would be doing.

>>725346671
>good like cid
this just makes me sign
he's fucking bland as shit, literally a random NPC by witcher 3 standards. even used the same VA

>>725346918
7/10ish nomuraslop I'm afraid
>>725346835
FF fans definitely bought the fastest selling PS5 exclusive FFXVI. They didn't buy Rebirth though, despite shilling it online a lot. E33 seemed to have broad appeal amongst Ubisoft normies and FF fans alike though for sure.

>>725346995
>They just fired their entire UK branch, EU branch and NA branch.
to be fair se has a tendency to blame foreign teams for their own financial failures.

>>725346995
anon you don't understand the pieces of plastic of legacy characters from the squaresoft days are still selling out and making SE hundreds of thousands of dollars annually!
they're definitely going to be able to afford their next mainline title at this rate!

>>725347039
That says a lot about XVI because he's the best character the game has to offer.

>>725346962
I don't care about gay shit like sales I play fun as fuck games and jacks game is fun as FUCK, go be retarded someone else

Rebirth has a longer sales tail, helped by its good reputation among reviewers and players. The same can't be said for XVI. More people are currently playing Remake than XVI. Hell, more people are playing fucking Ever Crisis than XVI.

>>725342240
Japan never really got into crpg's but they do have the tactics genre up their sleeve

>>725346962
SoP being an Epic exclusive for a while really killed it.

>>725343608
FFVI - Sabin - Blitz
FFVII - Tifa - Limit Break
FFVIII - Zell - Limit Break
FFX - Every character except Yuna, Rikku and Khimari - Limit Break
FFXII - Quickenings
FFXIII - Summons
FFXV - Cross Link
FFXVI - Titan, Shiva, Ramuh eikonic abilities

Reisende Raus!

Actually getting back to FF16 after putting it on hold for awhile and near the end. Few things I will say

>I like Clive overall and most of the cast. I just wish he was a bit more interesting at times.
>Game looks nice, but feels like it was a PS4 title before moving it to this gen.
>The combat is fun, but I wish you could play as other characters. As others have said, it is just way too easy and by the half way point you are a bit too OP.
>Side quests are mix bag. Some are pretty interesting and give decent rewards, while others feel like they drone on. The ones that go more in-depth about some of the side characters are pretty decent.
>The Eikon battles are a high point, but like the combat are very easy.
>Speaking of which, they really needed an editor on some of the dialog. Some parts just go on for way too long and don't say much of anything.

Overall, it feels more like a FF spinoff like Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin than a mainline game, and probably should have been a FF Tactics spinoff. The RPG mechanics barely feel there and the combat feels at odds with the rest of the game. I am enjoying my time with the game but it would not rank that high on my FF list.

>>725347192
>those remake peak steam numbers

wtf it really has been over for SE lmao

>>725347053
this caused some coping to occur

>>725347181
It does, and it's why I dropped it after like 30 hours or something which is about half way through.

Is this website just the same few retards arguing every thread?

>>725342240
BG3 is the game for RPGs to copy, E33 is the game for JRPGs (as a genre) to copy

>>725340261 (OP)
If Final Fantasy XVI had been called Final Fantasy: Age of Dominants or something, everybody would love it.

>>725347413
I'd love to know how many people who liked BG3 or E33 actually went on to play more games in the genre. Or was it a FOMO popularity thing?

>>725346962
i would quit video games altogether if i was only capable of playing games with high enough steam concurrent player count. sorry for your illness, buddy

>>725347498
Definitely the latter. It was just good marketing.

>>725343968
I think you might have to go back and relearn your reading skills anon.

>>725347498
what should modern gamers go to after those? p5 is for toddlers compared to e33, dos2 is straight up trash compared top bg3.

>>725347397
Do you expect everyone to have super unique special snowflake opinions with no overlap whatsoever?

>>725347684
the new Digimon game is pretty good

>>725347684
What did you like in those games?

>>725346995
>meanwhile SE are having to go through rounds of mass layoffs and firings because they're so deep in the hole
None of the employees fired are from Japan. Even in a down year, FFXIV is making more than excrement 33

>>725346275
Why do you make it sound like it's a bad thing? Does Roger Ebert's quote still haunts you to this very day?

>>725340261 (OP)
FFXVI is at 5M as well they just didn't want to embarrass Rebirth by announcing it.

>>725347053
>the fastest selling PS5 exclusive
what an honor

>>725347263
Rebirth already sold a million on PC with no denuvo. Fucking moron thinks CCU matters.

>>725347498
Well, in the case of BG3, it's a huge anomaly within the world of CRPGs where it used 5e and had amazing production values on top of that. I can see people trying to get into other CRPGs that are still running 3.5 style rulesets and being put off by the complete nonsensical autism of those systems.

People like to clown on 5e for being over-simplified, but the 3.5e style of PCs getting millions of otherwise inconsequential feats that add up to a build once you get your 1+1+1+1+2+1+4+1+1+3+1-5+2+2+3+1, etc... modifiers for attack rolls with only longswords specifically when you're standing across from a teammate while also being knee deep in mud is not really and your morale is 2 ranks above your enemy but not when that enemy is a half-elf isn't appealing either. I kid, 3.5e isn't that bad, but it's not that far off.

As far as JRPGs are concerned, I've seen guys who liked E33 get into Purse Owners and DQ11, and they like them, so I have confidence that people who get into JRPGs through E33 will actually stick around.

>>725347934
Not if XVI doomed it first

>>725348043
FFXVI sold 2x more than Rebirth btw. Yes, that includes PC.

>>725348114
If it's not Nintendo or Monster Hunter then it won't sell well in Japan.,

>>725347962
>People like to clown on 5e for being over-simplified, but the 3.5e style of PCs getting millions of otherwise inconsequential feats that add up to a build once you get your 1+1+1+1+2+1+4+1+1+3+1-5+2+2+3+1, etc... modifiers for attack rolls with only longswords specifically when you're standing across from a teammate while also being knee deep in mud is not really and your morale is 2 ranks above your enemy but not when that enemy is a half-elf isn't appealing either. I kid, 3.5e isn't that bad, but it's not that far off.
This is a system built for people who already know the system inside and out. Basically, it's your gateway into Pathfinder.

>>725348114
I'm still hoping to see definitive proof of that because I haven't seen Rebirth in the clearance bins like I did with XVI.

>>725344532
No. Nothing is worse than you shit game. XIII and sequels sucks no matter how many times you goom to Lightning

>>725347962
The main issue with 5E is the retarded concentration system which removes all fun and complexity from combat to the point your casters are more simplistic tha n fighters.

>>725348313
It was a bit silly seeing level 10 fighter do 3 instances of 40 damage per turn as baseline, while the (only active) level 5 spell whiffed and disappeared because the level 10 mage stubbed his toe.

>>725345773
>felt sincere and unique
Thats not how it felt back then tho

>>725348268
I'll let the majority judge if the game is really shit or not when the remaster comes out, which is very soon.

>>725348449
We already judged XIII 20 years ago and found it wanting, zoomie.

T e st

>>725348449
Anon the shitstorm around FFXIII was a lot bigger and smelly than with FFXVI

>>725347684
Xenoblade. The story in e33 was very xenoblade-coded. Sometimes it even felt like a ripoff

>>725348517
I'm hoping to see some QoL improvements in the XIII remaster, the same way they went all out for XII by revamping the entire gameplay and adding a job system. I'm not sure how that would work for XIII but this is their only opportunity to redeem a game that's been criticized for almost two decades.

FF7 remake. Your thoughts. Now.

>>725347397
It might as well be

>>725348836
meant for
>>725343172

>>725348313
>to the point your casters are more simplistic than fighters.
This isn't very true, but it is true that in 5e, the power balance between martials and casters pivots towards martials at lower levels, equaling out around level 9-12 before sharply going into the casters' favour. Casters are super good in combat, but 5e itself is less about the combat than the adventure. On that level, they're busted as hell

>>725340261 (OP)
XV won

>>725348836
7R is just fine, Rebirth is great.

>>725348836
Ubisoft openworld slop
Flanderized characters
Childish tone
Massacred story

No thank you in the 5 million sold announcement? Typical rude French.

>>725340261 (OP)
pozzed piece of shit full of faggots and trannies

gameplay is shit too

glad it flopped

>>725349195
Yeah it's a real shame that Rebirth turned out that way

>>725347413
E33 is already a copy of jrpgs

>>725349501
E33 isn't a copy of JRPGs it just is one lol

>>725349195
the sad part is he's the best character in the game

>>725349346
>defend the gay kiss scene and deflect to rebirth and imply that somehow whatever that they're deflecting to is more gay than a kiss between men

Typical response from 16 faggots, please kill yourself you disgusting freak, you'll never be normal

>>725349547
It's not Japanese and its qte parryslop gameplay isn't even common in JRPGs

>>725349651
You seem to have a lot of pictures of naked men saved to your computer, anon.
Is there something you'd like to tell us?

725349019
>Flanderized characters
kill yourself you fucking moron, they weren't even characters in the original

>>725349346
Not sure why we needed the dance scenes and gay interracial couples but Hamaguchi works in mysterious ways I guess

>>725349695
It has 4 niggas standing in a line turn-based combat, it has exploration and combat be completely separate modes of gameplay, little to no narrative roleplaying, etc...
In short: If it walks like a JRPG, it quacks like a JPRG, then it's a JRPG.

Just stating facts, no need to be mad "bro"

Did you know that faggots cant give blood because of how disgusting they are. Even science says their blood isn't clean.
Faggots are disgusting and horrible and literally covered in shit as a matter of fact.

>>725349986
oops meant for this "bro" >>725349763

>>725349845
Can you expand on this thought for us?

>>725349945
>4 niggas = jrpg
NTA, but that makes no sense, pokemon and dark souls aren't 4 niggas in a row and only an idiot wouldn't call them jrpgs. It's very obvious a jrpg is just a rpg made in japan

>>725350187
Dark Souls is not a JRPG lol

>>725348708
The fuck are you talking about anon? Thats the basic 90s and 00s JRPG formula

>>725342570
FFXVI was a really good game. It just wasn't Final Fantasy. Under any other name it would have done fine. People went into it expecting Final Fantasy but got an action game instead. The problem wasn't the game, it was betrayed expectations.

>>725340261 (OP)
they are definitely not still at 3 million copies when they managed to do that within a week you retard
also fuck your turnbased and your incapability to play anything faster because you are a retard
why don't you just play DnD instead of pestering videogames with this type of "gameplay"?

>>725350230
How do you even reach that conclusion?

>>725350273
XVI was still mediocre as an action game, but I agree it would've been received much better if it treated itself as a spinoff like SoP. Putting a mainline number on it was an insult to the franchise.

>>725350187
you're a retard lol

>>725350325
Because it's an action RPG, not a JRPG. Only an idiot would look at a game like FFX and Demon's Souls and conclude that they're the same kind of game just because of where they were made.

>>725350273
Nah it was dogshite, whoever greenlighted that trash should be fired

>>725350325
nta but it's obviously an ARPG. So is Kingdom Hearts

ffxvi sounds awesome
but the bloated file size, photorealism and constant cutscenes ruins it for me

>>725343886
But there's just no fix for this that doesn't remove the soul of the franchise from a business standpoint. I mean, I'll cite that recent poll that said the average FF player is 44. You can't keep catering to a demographic that is aging away from video games and expect your consumer base to grow. They HAVE to do something to try and bring in a new generation.

So ... what? How would you fix it? The only thing I can think of is making a 2nd higher-budget franchise that shares the lore but has a different 'modern' playstyle, while keeping the mainline FF trend with the style older people enjoy but with a lower budget since older people care more about gameplay than flashiness (to an extent, of course).

I'm 44 and still play older FFs all the time so that's just my take. But, regardless, it's a bad situation with no easy fix.

>>725340261 (OP)
they think people want their shitty action combat
also having the mmo team working on other shit is retarded

Why does this game cause so much autistic rage?

>>725350480
>>725350514
Saying an arpg can't be a jrpg is like saying a turn based rpg can't be a western rpg, that makes no sense. You can be both an arpg and a jrpg at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive. One describes the gameplay while one describes the country of origin.

>>725350497
It was made with a western audience in mind, which was never gonna work.
Pretty sure the western branch had their fingerprints all over ff16 too, you can see it from all the GoT wannabe cringe shit (16’s story is pure cringe, easily one of the worst in the entire ff series)

Good thing the new CEO realized the mistake and nuked the whole western branch.

>>725350436
based nomura

>>725350587
FF has too many fucking spin-offs as it is. It's just confusing at this point.

Plant Game
Decaying Ip

>>725348836
fucking garbage

>>725350631
Might be because some random AAA game with turn based combat managed to outsell and become more popular than a mainline game from a long running """"""RPG"""""" franchise.

>>725350630
yes. mmos are a completely different beast that focuses on replayability over one-time high-impact. no idea what they were thinking there.

They don't even need to look at E33. Didn't SE's own DQ11, an unabashedly traditional JRPG with shit production value and one track playing on repeat for 90% of the game sell more in the West(where it's considered niche) than FF16 has WW?

>>725350631
FF16 or E33? FF16 causes rage because a lot of people wanted it to either flop or be super successful for a long list of reasons, so when it just did alright, it gave all those people blue balls. E33 I think because it's a lot of what people want FF to be like, but isn't.

>>725351001
>They don't even need to look at E33.
They can just look at their own catalogue, E33 literally does nothing new for this genre.

>>725350791
An action RPG can be a Japanese RPG, but it cannot be a JRPG. You're taking a very long time to process the reality that JRPGs are a genre of game in and of themselves. E33 isn't the first time a Western developer has made a JRPG. The Third Age, Stick of Truth, Undertale, etc... are all JRPGs

>>725351001
>>725351173

100% true Sometimes the grass is greener, and if looking at E33 will convince Square that the legacy they built has value that people want, then I'm fine with that

>videogame feels and plays like a video game
>this makes the boomers seethe
>throwing sales figures around to justify opinion
>admit that being a retarded normalfag is the correct choice

>>725351316
Honestly this looks like shit

>>725351316
>Le DMC practice room combo slop

>>725351384
you couldn't even do half of it. don't downplay it just because "it's in le practice room"

>>725351190
Anon, JRPG just means Japanese rpg, you're treating them as two different things but they're not. Jrpg is not a genre in itself just like Wrpg isn't a genre in itself.

>>725351073
I can't even explain to you how hyped I was when that first XVI trailer dropped. XII was my favorite and I'd been waiting for another FF with that kind of heavy medival theme mix with sci-fi element, a huge world to get lost in, and more polished gameplay. Then imagine the disappointment I felt when I realized XVI had absolutely none of what made me love XII. It felt like it went out of its way to be the exact opposite. I'm never gonna stop shitting on that game for disappointing me this badly, and no one's gonna change my mind.

>2023’s GOTY was turn based
>2025’s GOTY is going to be turn based too
But yeah, tell me more about how turn based is “obsolete,” Yoshida, must be hurt getting slapped in the face by reality like that.

>>725351435
No, JRPG is something that evokes a very specific kind of game. That's how you know it's a genre. There is no such thing as a "WRPG" because the west invented RPGs with D&D. We don't make "W" RPGs, we just make RPGs

>>725351625
I'm not saying you can't shit on the game, but why stay mad at it instead of just forgetting it and moving on? I feel like helping the game be forgotten would be way more hurtful to it than helping people remember it exists. Again, I'm not trying to defend the game I'm just trying to understand your reasoning

>>725351423
I wouldn't do half of that because I would have killed the enemy before half of the combo is finished. Ifyou want to look at pretty animations, just watch anime

>>725351642
they are though. will you ever play baldguys gate 3 again anytime soon?
combofags on the other hand will keep uploading FF16 and 7 Rebirth combos on youtube for a few clicks

>>725343031
I hate the "b-but bravely" argument. Bravely as a franchise is fucking TERRIBLE. It had one passable game out of 3 and even that one overstayed its welcome and is nothing like old final fantasy games short of mechanics being tangentially related to 5 because "LE JOBS"

To start with, the series is too formulaic. You will always only have 4 characters. That shit is all well and good if the characters felt fleshed out. I honestly thought the characters in Bravely Default 1 felt somehow less fleshed out than the ones in Final Fantasy V, and let me tell you, Final Fantasy V isnt exactly winning any awards here, but you spend twice as long with these characters, if not even more-so. As such, the games dont take advantage of their small cast. Not to mention the systems will always be the same with some minor tweaks. In Final Fantasy going in blind, you had no idea just how many party members you would get, what the sub systems would be, how many you could use at a time, etc, yet it still felt as though it had this core identity.

The story. These stories are so far up their own ass, and "THE FAIRY IS LE EVIL" has no legs to stand on if I dont really give that much of a fuck about the rest of the world in general. What made Final Fantasies I-X particularly worth while in this regard was the pacing of the stories. Anyone who has played Bravely Default 1, from its most ardent haters, to the biggest fans will tell you that game is paced like complete fucking shit.

Also the voice acting and writing is shit. Octopath Traveler unironically feels more Final Fantasy than Bravely does, and im not a big fan of that series either since it feels a lot more like "Diet Dr. SaGa" in terms of its presentation

>>725340261 (OP)
I'm not saying FFXVI is a pinnacle of game design or writing or that it deserves hate OR praise;

BUT

Expedition 33 is the most overrated game in the past maybe fifteen years. I have NEVER seen a campaign such that this game is enjoying. Ever. It's crazy, and it's evidence that the industry is utterly SUFFUSED with normies and bad actors. Expedition 33 is proof we need gatekeeping more than ever.

>>725351937
japanese vidya IS anime. always has been and always will.

>>725352019
Expedition 33 only ever caught traction because there was a fucking gaping void for what it did, which was just be an "ok moderately paced game in the style of a JRPG". You also have to realize that people who did not grow up in our generation only really had shit like Undertale and Persona 5

>>725351642
>muh one fix issue
If FF16 had been turn based it doesnt fix boring level design, it doesnt fix the story and pacing, it doesnt fix the quests
E33 leans heavily on story and music to reach success, look up any review or discussion and it’s where 90% of its praise goes towards

>>725352019
It's becoming increasingly hard to tell when feedback is organic or manufactured and it annoys the fuck out of me. Sometimes you can tell, e.g. Taylor Swift is factory-made and her popularity is bought and paid for. But half the shit in the /v/ index has me raising eyebrows, like the Skate threads that were going on for the last month. That felt pretty weird to me, but hard to say for sure if it was a campaign or not.

I still cant believe we got Tetsuya Nomura art of Gustav and Maelle

>>725352080
I think there was a gaping void and longing desire for overworlds, a sense of wonder and adventure, music and emotional storytelling too. And paper mario got fucked up I missed that timed button pressing shit. YIIK doesn't count.

>>725351881
But how would I let people know the game is shit if I just moved on and let it be forgotten? All I'm doing is spreading the truth by giving my honest opinion whenever the topic comes up.

>>725352245
Unironically take a break from 4chan and play games based on whether you like them or not. Dont come back here to look for opinions at all what so ever while you play. Go in blind if at all possible. >>725352245

>>725351969
Might be the funniest take I’ve seen on /v/ this week
People stopped giving a damn about FF16 the moment it launched: no legs, bombs on every platform it gets re-released on.
Meanwhile, people are still playing and replaying BG3 to this day

>>725352019
>Expedition 33 is the most overrated game in the past maybe fifteen years

Cyberpunk 2077 is right there, it didnt get buried as a buggy mess that sucks and didnt deliver because people jerked off to Rebecca after the anime came out and gaslit themselves into thinking the game was good actually

Elden Ring, which disemboweled the Souls formula, left it as an empty husk with spastic bosses, and went to be one of the best selling games of all time

Deltarune, an episodic game which is consistently sucked off despite it not even being half way done yet

Hollow Knight Silksong- IT TOOK 6 YEARS TO MAKE!!!

These are just within the past 5 years or so

I hope you realize Skyrim falls within this 15 year window. Albeit BARELY
As well as Fallout 4

Your statement holds 0 weight to me.

>>725351642
I was more mad he talked shit about blitzball and minigames and I dont even like blitzball. What kind if sick fuck hates minigames.

>>725352019
the writing was on the wall ever since the PS2 happened and people started to treat gameplay like a secondary concern. which got much worse with each subsequent gen

>>725350852
>can see it from all the GoT wannabe cringe shit (16’s story is pure cringe, easily one of the worst in the entire ff series)

No Yoshida made everyone watch it apparently. It was so popular in Japan theh made a power rangers based on it and its why they hired GRRM for elden ring.

We have to go back to when Twin Peaks influenced all of Japan. That's the real reason why everything is shit now. Zelda is shit now but was inspired by Twin Peaks. Silent Hill. I could go on and on.

>>725352394
>a snapshot of one platform proofs it all
the playerbase is on the PS5. you can seethe about it as much as you want. but gameplay chads are on console while DnD numbersmostgoup autoclick gacha fags are all on PC. this has always been the case
consoles had games like Crash Bandicoot and DMC
PC had Moronwind and Diablo
you never played vidya for what it is and you apparently never will

>>725352398
I feel like when games get extremely popular exponentially fast you get a massive amount of contrarians who hate it based on nothing but their contrarian biases. Iwas almost one if them. I was never a vocal hater but I got turned off of it. Then I bought it on sale cause someone whose opinion I trusted loved it and the FUCKING TITLE SCREEN changed my mind.

Square is hiring indian shills too.They hire them in droves to make their games. They got into NFTs now AI beta testing. Theres no fucking way they're not. Pay attention to their grammar because there are dead giveaways.

>>725341789
FFXIII combat system was like one of the things that *didnt* receive criticism outside the crystarium pigeonholing you into boring builds

>>725352684
Technically remake 7 is an evolution of 13s battle system made by lost of the same team

>>725352609
Yeah about that...

>>725352394
Even funnier is how they quietly released the DLC so quietly I didn't even know it was out until much later. Needless to say, it flopped so hard they quietly canceled any future updates that might've added playable party members. And you can't even be mad at them because they never made any promises, not that anyone cared anyway.

>>725342143
the sad thing is that E33 had dog shit characters (outside of gustave who they 86ed) and a dog shit story (wahh i don't want to face reality, i want to live in some fantasy world) but i have no doubt it was better than XVI

>>725352754
>The ship is fine says the Captain of the Titanic.

>>725350852
>blames the West
>correctly points out the GoT obsession
Yoshida Naoki is obsessed with GoT and was also the main inspiration for Heavensward. You retards dont even know the fucking reason this game is shit. Yoshida Naoki loves to ape shit, he doesnt make anything original. Its also the philosophy he used for the FFXIV reboot when he made all his devs play WoW.

>>725352295
It was 100% that. I dont think E33 is god's gift to man kind or any of that shit, its a solid 7/10 game probably, but at the same time I also grew up in an era where there were plenty of JRPGs coming out between the SNES PSX and PS2 from many varying companies all with decent enough budgets and production values, hell even the nintendo shitcube and the genesis got decent JRPG titles even if im not the biggest fan of Phantasy Star.

Even when it slowed down a bit on the PS2/Gamecube generation, you still had Shadow Hearts Final Fantasy X and Xenosaga Granted Xenosaga 2 was a huge pile of shit, Tales of the Abyss, DQVIII, GC had Skies of Arcadia, Baiten Kaitos, Paper Mario, and Tales of Symphonia.

These days, its practically Indie or generally lower budget titles like compile heart (neptunia is complete garbage btw) and Falcom (Trails died with how Ao no Kiseki ended). There are some good and charming indie JRPG styled games, but the reality is the generation that grew up on the PS4/PS5 or just started playing video games much later and not while they were growing up doesnt have a lot to compare E33 to. A lot of people on /v/ dont understand the importance of this context. Something like E33 is considered a complete novelty because the next best thing to compare it to for production value and budget is Persona 5, and Metaphor, the later of which feeling like bootleg persona

>>725352785
So I just posted about how you can tell who indian shills are based on their grammar and we have a perfect example right here.

>>725352785
Monoco was a likable character. I agree about the rest being underbaked

>>725352684
The stagger system only really made sense in XIII. You had to use both physical attacks and magic to build and maintain the gauge. In 7R, it's more about constant pressure and targeting elemental weaknesses. But in XVI, The whole stagger mechanic feels completely pointless.

>>725352885
I dont rate games at all. I loved expedition 33 and thought it was pretty great though. I don't think I've ever called anything a masterpiece because I always end up loving janky unfinished fucked up flawed shit like Xenogears and Chrono Cross.

>>725352983
>Xenogears
If only we could get a game like that today

>>725352929
>agree about the rest being underbaked

Did you talk to everyone at camp as much as possible? It helps a lot. Theres a lot of really good sidequests too.

>>725352983
Yeah I typically dont either. Im just trying to find a good way to say E33 was "ok but not amazing". I like well rounded experiences. Trails in the Sky 3rd and Final Fantasy V are probably my favorite JRPGs

>>725342397
this. i dont get the hype behind BG3 when DoS2 shits on it so hard. you can see how garbage the combat/progression in BG3 is because they're kneecapped by the garbage DnD mechanics they have to use. the only people who like DnD mechanics are faggots who think they should like DnD because they're "le epig nerds xD". objectively, DnD rules are literally built for boomers in the 70s who had zero access to computers, a TI-83 and computer graphics. trying to use those mechanics for fun is like watching shit on VHS for "fun". they have to use dice because they didn't know what RNG is

not to mention how gay/cringe it is when ledditors say shit like
>"i attempt to suck the dragons dick"
>"rolling to see if I make him cum"

>>725353082
I did, but the thing is act 3 reminded me of the World of Ruin in Final Fantasy VI, where every character has their own side story, but they dont really interact with anyone else anymore or what is happening in the plot itself a whole lot. Sciel and Lune really needed to interact with what was happening a lot more. While you can infer how they feel during their respective endings the fact they have nothing to say about their situation makes them feel more like Rico or Billy from Xenogears, just kind of written out as all the real shit is going on

>>725343610
Looks like some shitty Korean mmo, UE asset store slop. FF used to be a creative, aesthetic explosion.

>3m
At least it's better than Rebirth.

>>725353087
I thought it was amazing though.
I have seen the insanely retarded hyperbolic posts out there like 'I AM 65 AND THIS IS RHE BEST GAME EVER' I just want someone to know I'm not one fo them because holy shit what the fuck was that.


But I was always the type of person to only play a few games or watch a few shows and get autistically hyperfixated and get obsessed with them if I liked them. So this year I played 5 game so far lol. Autistically loved 4 of them because besides exp33 they're from things I already loved and turned out good. (Digimon and super robot wars)

I never had a playstation as a kid so I'm only now playing ps1 jrpgs
.

>>725351073
The former. The latter at least has obnoxious fans but barely anyone comes to 16's defense enough for that to be the case there

>>725343298
That's what happens when you have brain damaged MMORPG designers making your game.

>>725353229
>and Lune really needed to interact with what was happening a lot more.

They had so many good scenes together early on I feel like shit must have gotten cut. I know most of the Clea stuff got completely cut and she did become more of a background element.

>>725353319
Yeah that's fair. The point of my post is I understand the perspective. I see the strengths of the game and im not going to shit on anyone who thinks its amazing. Definitely was a worthwhile experience too.

>>725352080
>there was a fucking gaping void for what it did
and that gap lasted arguably ever since ffx

>>725353392
Yeah, and that's fine depending on how long that made the dev cycle. Older Final Fantasies had a lot of that stuff going on too. im not sure how long E33 took, but if it took like 2-4 years as opposed to like the fucking 5-7 that most AAA titles seem to take this time then I can accept the fact they had to make some cuts, even if it suffers for it a bit

>>725353439
Exactly. A whole generation or two worth of gamers never experienced anything like it

>>725353407
This is unrelated but I just want to add the music made me miss Nier games but Nier Automata isnt even that old. Why the fuck arent Square making another Yoko Taro game anytime soon? DQ11 and KH4 are MIA. I don't care about the remakes after 1 anymore. Square is weird. No wonder I gravitated to Expedition 33.

>>725343742
japs always say some fake milquetoast type shit in these interviews. they'd praise ffxiii, the ET game, or concord if put on the spot
>>725343886
xiv nostalgia baiting was the worst. go 5 minutes without name dropping shit from a better FF challenge would be impossible for them

>>725353463
Modern dev times are fucking insane.
I'm a Kingdom Hearts fan lmao.

>>725353526
Never cared for Nier music. Preferred the music in Drakkengard 3 honestly lets not talk about the first 2 games

>>725343031
So innovate. FFXIV is trying to chase a trend (the kids hate turn based so here's an action game) and so was XV (open world). SE don't know how to innovate anymore, they only copy what they see is popular. I guarantee 17 is going to return to turn based combat because they saw the success of BG3 and E33 and decided to copy it. Again. Final Fantasy mainline hasn't innovates in a long time.

the hard pill to swallow is that the PSX era was really the only time FF was relevant. X rode the hype of those games and it was all downhill from there

>>725353712
It was very relevant in NES (in japan at least) and SNES what the hell are you talking about?

>>725347684
Old jrpgs

>>725353792
He outed himself as a millenial FF7 tourist lol

Square's irrelevant at this point in the grand scheme of things. Them and Ubisoft, Rockstar, Blizzard, Bioware, and Bethesda.
All fucking WASHED. Haven't released anything good in years.

>>725344926
the most retarded thing is that they never even tried. they kinda just gave up after FFX which was a top 5 or top 10 selling game on PS2. not to mention some of the later PS1 titles were getting close to 10 million. they stumbled a bit with XII which in retrospect is still a fantastic game but then they just gave up. like if they actually kept up the momentum of making JRPGs in the PS3/PS4 generation instead of like 5+ year gaps between dogshit releases, they might actually have a AAA JRPG with sales of 10m+.

the issue imo is that nomura or some retard at SE got bored and decided he wanted to make an ARPG which fucked over the entire company

>>725353664
They chased the Souls trend with SoP and failed. But at least SoP was good enough to stand on its own instead of just lazily chasing trends like everything else. I'm not even sure what trend XVI was trying to chase. Action games were never that big of a hit, with DMCV being the only real exception.

>>725353664
FFXIV should be FFXVI obviously

>>725350587
Persona and Metaphor have basically achieved what FF has tried to do and failed.

>>725353792
>It was very relevant in NES (in japan at least) and SNES what the hell are you talking about?
you're kidding yourself if you think I-VI were anywhere close to as mainstream as them. Hell if you ask any normalfag to name the protags of the snes era games they probably still couldn't

Final Fantasy should have went the way with Ultima after XII. Thats how much I disliked FFXII

>>725354005
>issue imo is that nomura or some retard at SE got bored and decided he wanted to make an ARPG which fucked over the entire company

Sakaguchi fucked over the entire company by making a studio in Hawaii and hemorrhaging money making Spirits Within which was one if the biggest movie flops of all time. He got usurped easily after that by shitty CEOs Nomura wasn't behind the executive decisions of Versus 13. Which was just going to be a spinoff and would have kelt up the momentum of making JRPGike you wanted. He got fucked over more than anyone. They took him off the game made it 15 then completely ruined it and made him work in the FF7remake mines.

>>725354114
>as mainstream as them
You said relevant. In the gaming spheres at the time they were relevant. What is relevance to you? Something occasionally mentioned in pop culture or what? Something that sold more than 10 million copies? In that case Would it be fair to call Wizardry and Ultima irrelevant despite their massive influences? What about Super Metroid?

>>725354186
>He got fucked over more than anyone.
Bro was LITERALLY fucking dragging his ass. I dont get the Versus XIII obsession when there was no news for YEARS UPON YEARS before Nomura even got kicked off

>>725354114
>Hell if you ask any normalfag to name the protags of the snes era games they probably still couldn't

Oh no the normalfaggots dont know shit?! Its almost like they're fucking normal faggots!

>>725353712
i could swallow that pill if they even tried to be relevant but 5+ years between shitty mainline releases while releasing cheap cash grab slop in between (ff7 compilation, ff13 compilation) just doesn't make sense. not to mention FFXV being FFXIII versus.
>>725352909
What am I shilling Rajesh? The fact that E33 is bad? Indian tier post. Try again.

>>725340261 (OP)
16 is a great game who the fuck will remember 33 next year? People already forgot about metaphor, this happens with every single over hyped turn based game. Meanwhile you will still be talking about 16 everyday.

>>725354020
i think that was outsourced to team ninja which is why i assume it wasn't dog shit

>>725354230
Shitty CEOs, development of Luminois Engine and trouble japan was having with the ps3 were the reason not Nomura. He made like 30 fucking games and has trouble with 1 and suddenly it's all his fault because you read a shitpost on 4chan about the evil lazy belt and zipper

>>725353712
people have been seething about it ever since. they're pissing their pants whenever a turntard game outsells the newest FF game. it is still very relevant

>>725354268
>What am I shilling Rajesh? The fact that E33 is bad? Indian tier post. Try again.

Yes Square would rather hire indians to shittalk a game to try to ruin its reputation and sales rather than make a good game themselves.

Proof: Their games are shit and they hire Indians which makes them even more shit. You're indian and you're shit. Post your shit wiping hand if you want me.to believe you

>>725354382
>He made like 30 fucking games
How many did he actually direct
How many had the weight of final fantasy attached to it?
How large was the budget and team he had to work with?

Also he didnt only have trouble with 1.

FFXVI should've done away with the stagger system. What a retarded thing to keep on a DMC game.
>>725340261 (OP)
Just keep the combat, remove stagger and I'm golden. Unless your cringe-based battle system mirrors something like Valkyrie Profile, your RPG should either have a Tales Of or a J-Action battle system.
Give me more combos, more dexterity, more tight timings, more difficulty.

>>725354089
Persona's dating mechanics have carried it. Metaphor didn't accomplish shit. Critically acclaimed because of woke vibes, but players weren't impressed.

>>725354005
You say that but FF13 was ATB-based.

>>725354723
7th gen was when final fantasy basically lost relevance in the west. imagine getting an entire generation of nothing but ff13 + we initially missed out on type-0 which also tied in.

>>725354723
xiii was also a narrative clusterfuck

Another shit thread where turn based fags pretend FF is dying because they switched to action combat and not because their terrible writing and characters and no longer being near the top when it comes to graphics and production values

>>725350631
Because FFXVI is so incredibly boring that for some it is insulting. A mainline title in one of their favorite franchises and has so much money behind it only to end up falling on it's face and wasting the players time at every possible turn.

>>725351316
It's actually insulting how easy this is to do compared to DMC combat. The easy teleport straight to target button makes this game play itself harder than the impossible to fuck up dodge.

>>725355158
These niggas all started with 7. They don’t know the kind of switchup 7 itself was yet it redefined what FF could be. A game like 16 could easily have done the same, if it had actually delivered across the board like 7 did at the time.

>>725340261 (OP)
Japan used to make great games like Persona 5, Nier Automata, Dark souls 3, Sekiro, BoTW, Xenoblade 2, MHW, RE7, FE3H, RE4R, Ryza 1-3, SF6, Mario wonder, pikmin 4, Elden ring, Unicorn overlord, Like a dragon 7, Asstro bot, metaphor since 2017, but how can they fall so soon this year and get mogged by Chinese black ships like genshin, starrail, ZZZ, WuWa, Wukong, petite planet, Phantom blade zero, Ananta, nexus anima,
Korean black ship Like Woochi,Tal,Lies of P,Crimson desert, and French black ship like expedition 33 and Asscreed shadow? Why did Japanese game which was glorious in 2024 tremble so easily?
No Japanese game this year got metascore over 90. Wilds, Yumia ,Mario kart world and pokemon legends ZA shows Japanese game's absolute fall this year.
While Western game was suffering this last year. But it became opposite this year as western games revived with Kingdom come 2, Doom dark age, expedition 33, Oblivion remaster, hades 2, silksong, man.
And switch 2 has nailed on coffin on Japanese games due to fuckin' greed and keycard, wahoo! And due to MKW forcing intermission due to Devs' ego!
What is left in Japan now?
Anime? Solo leveling was AOTS last year, and China makes them better, TBHX, nezha and LoTM. Kpop demon hunter is hyping in Japan. Anime industry is shattering by delays, layoff and bankrupts.
Comics? Korean makes them better.
Entertainment? Korea makes them better.
Car? Korea and China makes them better, Hyundai and BYD.
Subculture? BA has 2000 comicket booth.
Japan is NOTHING!! but being bear foods!!
As no Western nation suffers from casualty by wild beast such as Wolf, bear and lion.
Nintendo is no match for Chinese AAA games' wave incoming!!

>>725340261 (OP)
But mogged by Pokemon legends ZA tho. Is ZA JRPG tho?

>>725340261 (OP)
$40 vs $80

>>725340261 (OP)
>How can you tank your legacy this bad?

>>725343610
Is that mah nigga Jack Garland on a horse???

E33 was 9/11 for FFfags. Even after E33 fans have moved on, FFfags will not. They'll be seething forever.
There is literally no reason for anyone to be mad about E33. A small (white) team made a good game not based on an existing IP and it was a hit. It's the only truly feel good game industry story we've had in a decade. It's a miracle it happened in the middle of the worst hellscape the medium has ever gone through. The ONLY reason to be mad about it is if you're a FF retard who is threatened by its mere existence. They also have no reason to seethe at Metaphor. Nobody else even gives a shit about Metaphor. Only FFfags talk about Metaphor. But E33 committed the unforgiveable crime of being popular.

As soon as I saw this thread on the catalog I know this schizo >>725346329 would be here. He never disappoints.

>>725349006
Ah, so it's not about turn based versus action then

>>725357051
Who the fuck are these "FF"fans that like 12-16?

>>725355247
you say that but DMC has been going the exact same direction with the reboot and the 5th game. huge hitboxes. easy combo extenders. endless airtime. 16 is this easy because they were afraid turntards wouldn't be able to keep up otherwise

It's crazy to think final fantasy has been shit for two decades at this point. Two fucking decades! It's been bad for longer than it was ever good!
I don't know how to fix it but Nintendo and Capcom managed to turn Zelda and Residentl Evil around from their declines (though I know many people here don't like the recent games) so I guess it should possible? Square needs to take a long good look at what made their games tick during their golden years and distill that essence into a modern package but to be honest I don't think people like Nojima or Kitase or Yoship or Toriyama are capable of this. They are bored old fossils who are tired of the games they used to make by their own admission.

>>725340261 (OP)
The french just know what gamers truly want.

E33 was the last good FF
Before that it was XIII-2

>>725357051
true

>>725356901
hey I just started this game

>>725357051
>Nobody else even gives a shit about Metaphor.
which is a shame

>>725343031
>Bravely Default series
It has 60% of a good game in the first one, it couldn't even manage to have one full game without fucking it up and the rest sucked ass. Octopath traveler is even worse. The only thing SE has left is DQ and they'll probably run that into the ground with no survivors next.

Even despite years of mediocrity FF remains king. It is forever the benchmark people compare their new rpgs to and wish to be like but never will.

>>725357707
DIOS MIO

>>725358278
>The only thing SE has left is DQ and they'll probably run that into the ground with no survivors next.

Didnt they mention appealing to westerners...

>>725357754
For me it was Aorld of Final Fantasy

>>725358371
I think you'd be surprised how few people still think that way, anon. Mainly those with nostalgia from older generations.

>>725357707
>Monoco compliments Aline's feet if you have him in your party

>>725358456
/v/ certainly still does kek

FFXVI can't even be called a JRPG in any sense. If you call it a JRPG then you might as well call something like Astral Chain a JRPG too. Square has ditched their own genre, that's how much they've lost the plot.

>>725354564
How far did you move the goalpost because I'm pretty sure I can see it when I look at the fucking moon. You admitted you have no idea what you're talking about in your first lost so stop talking nigger.

>>725358371
>what dudes in their 40s tell themselves to feel better
still the king, bro! still the king...

>>725341992
>inoffensive
the female love interest getting gangraped for years in a sex dungeon is anything but.

>>725358427
All I remember is they said they wanted to transform it into an action game like they did with FF.

>>725358653
You’re right, you guys have definitely moved on actually

Why people still care about FF after 13? Let it go

>>725359091
they don't, and the sales reflect that. /v/ just enjoys kicking them while they're down, and every week SE make another retarded decision. they're lolcows who are fun to laugh at.

FFXVI is a huge wasted potential. CBU3 shouldnt work on mainline titles, let them be made by CBU1 and nomura

>>725358917
You're here too friendo

>>725340261 (OP)
I put about 100 hours into XVI, and I can't remember anything about the plot.

>>725352398
cyberpunk was sort of a flop though, considering the money pumped into it & the size of cdpr post w3.
going from selling 60M titles of your last game to barely breaking past 20M(both sold at 60€) is a massive downgrade.

>>725351858
And that kind isn't four niggas in a row. JRPG term is older than you zoom zoom. We were there when the term was formed, you were not

>>725340261 (OP)
Why are they using even Western game as Japan killer? Did expedition 33 got Chinese fund like BG3 did?

>>725340261 (OP)
I played FFXVI and it is not a terrible game, but it lacked something in terms of gameplay.

But the biggest thing is the story. This doesn't feel like a game made by the same company that made FFVI, Chrono Trigger and FFIX. The story felt weak, it didnt feel soulful. I remember watching the last scene of FFIX when they show the city for the last time and nearly crying. I stopped playing FFXVI after a while.

That said, it did have its positive points. Cid was a good character.

>>725340261 (OP)
Why wasn't Ex33's PS package on famitsu chart if it is dedicated Japan killer? While MKW and Pokemon legends ZA are on famitsu chart?

>>725340261 (OP)
Is EX33 supported by Chinese fund like BG3 did? Cuz their shills are considering Expedition 33 as Japan killer.
Why are anti Japan scums using even Western games as Japan killer recently after Chinese games' bubble burst?
Why did Ex33 sold less than MKW and Pokemon ZA which are considered "kusoge"?

>>725340261 (OP)

When have they ever? Look. You gotta let it go matte. FF is gone and it´s not coming back, it´s been 20+ years.

>>725358213
>a shame my generic animeslop: woke edition didn't sell
Tell a better joke

>>725361414
Stop pretending to be japanese with that broken English pvt gonzalez

>>725361414
E33 is funded with American money in reality. Xbox funded the game.
Chinese don't even know Sandfall studio, they just know the publisher Kepler.

>>725362641
Gamepass was a loss for Sandfall, retard

>>725342190
i swear man
AAA c suites these days are run by absolutely dumbass baboons who only think about money and have no finger on the pulse with limited understanding of tech
they have no idea what they are inviting with this move

>>725362760
Loss or not loss, American Xbox still funded the game, not the Chinese

>>725362641
E33 seems to have Chinese fund as it is considered "Japan killer" to /v/, just like most of Chinese games. If it was funded by Americans, they won't shilled themselves as Japan killer, as American games won't call themselves Japan killer unlike Chinkslops and Korean slops,

>>725362976
American? Then how to explain Expedition 33 shilling themselves as "Japan killer" just like Chinese games? No American games were shilled like this as "Japan killer".

>>725359406
Only to drop truth

>>725342762
yes it was. combat was absolute fucking garbage in FFXVI, the most mediocre "action" combat I've ever seen. Even DMC 1 had deeper combat mechanics, 25 fucking years ago
FFXVI has good story, but its a shit rpg and a shit action combat game

>>725363716
Same as the people you're pretending to be better than

>>725362760
Who knows, a ton of people playing it for free certainly made wom spread a lot faster and it still made a lot of money.

>>725363030
>E33 seems to have Chinese fund


HELLO SAAR

>>725361274
>Why are they using even Western game as Japan killer


WHY ISNT ANYONE SEEING THIS FUCKING RETARDED GRAMMAR AND CALLING HIM A FAGGOT PAJEET WHERE ARE ALL THE FUCKING WHITE AMERICANS ARE YOU ALL BOTS IM LOSING MY fucking mind sorry caps lock

>>725363937
>FFXVI has good story

I agree with everything you said except for that part.

>>725340261 (OP)
>Will Square-Enix learn the right lessons from this?
No, they'll quadruple-down as they usually do.

>>725354268
>n-no u!!
Pathetic dungeaters

>>725347673
Uno reverse.

>make profit
>hurrrr its a flop
i'm so tired of shills in this shithole

>>725365139
I really don’t get why would the random gamer even care how much a game makes aslong as it’s fun. This place has become to /biz/

>>725365203
FF16 wasn't fun.

>>725343610
>wow look at all these scenes!
>this game must be oh so great!
>it truly is FF!
fuck off

>>725342190
They've already been using this for FFXIV, but it was mentioned offhand in a Q&A a year ago so nobody made clickbait articles about it.

>>725365669
They're all cutscenes as well, not a single one of those pictures was a moment of gameplay.
Might as well have posted a /tv/ show or movie 3x3 panel and called it gameplay as the result is the same.

>>725365127
Uno lick up 4 niggas in a row

>>725357051
>Nobody else even gives a shit about Metaphor.

>>725344804
>FF7 Remake and Rebirth actually solve both of those issues and feels like a proper action and real RPG. I know people have an issue with other things in that game but in terms of action and RPG it's about the best Square Enix has been able to pull off.

Remake and Rebirth are INCREDIBLE. The combat system is GOATed.

>>725340261 (OP)
Of course not. They're so interested in E33's success story because it goes for the same melodramatic writing and colorless graphics that nu Final Fantasy goes for.

>>725368851
>because it goes for the same melodramatic writing and colorless graphics that nu Final Fantasy goes for.
Give a summary of FF16's story and compare it against Exp 33's story.

>>725365139
It is Final Fantasy. It shouldn't just be profitable. It should be huge.

Of course it is not a huge flop like Western franchises who have gone woke like Dragon Age and Assassins Creed.
But still, people expected better from them.

The company behind FF6 could do something better than this.

>>725350241
I'm guessing you haven't played 3?
>each human has a countdown to when their life runs out
>when their time is up they all have a big ceremony where the people fade off into light particles
>Main characters get surprised when they see old people
>It turns out, the entire world is fake
>core theme is that the world exists because of people's unwillingness to move on

>>725347684
Romancing SaGa 2

>>725369080
>make profit
>still cry
like i said. i'm tired of you shills in this shithole

>>725348836
poopoo peepee fart

>>725348836
splitting 1 game into 3 = instantly into the TRASH tier

E33 is white.
FF16 isn't.
FF7R is Africa-tier.

>>725373592
the renake trilogy isn't trying to be FF7, it's an entirely new game in the same vein as crisis core

I don'r play AI slop.

Final Fantasy tried to westernize

Which removed its whole appeal

>>725373714
based

>>725374109
Final Fantasy has always been a western series since FF1. You anime faggots have no clue what this series is about.

>>725374650
it drew inspiration from western games yes
like ultima
but it was its own thing you blubbering dumbass

>>725374650
Based and true

>>725342190
Square Enix desperately needs to be broken up. Its ridiculous how one company can be this mis managed.

>>725373920
According to the big artbook available in December, it's not IA slop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAipDLI04ok

>>725343031
Innovation is a meme, if I wanted something different I would play a different franchise.

>>725340261 (OP)
What lessons ? E33 was boring as shit.

>>725377173
That turn-based combat in the vein of traditional JRPGs can still sell immensely well. It isn't something gamers have moved on from.

>>725374109
>japanese roots
based